yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Magnesus:
Yeah, but I was talking about a post from KaneoheGrown:

Also what bothers me is that GPS is requirement for Android devices - requirement put by Google in order to get Android Market.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] GCurry:
More Samsung Galaxy 10.1 vs Asus TF GPS

More testing, comparing Samsung Tab 10.1 to Asus TF Prime.

I put my TFP beside wife's Samsung 10.1 Tab on east window, running GPS Test, satellite view. Tab gets GPS lock in 5 seconds, 11 satellites. TFP struggling to see satellites, but eventually (5 min) sees 6-7, no lock and even later (15min) sees 10-11 and even locks on. Signal levels (SNL) from GPS Test are much lower, a bit more than half as on the Tab.

(For some reason, my TFP's GPS works better when beside the Tab; without the Tab, can't find satellites or lock at all)

I then walked the Tab to west window on other side of house. Tab held GPS lock for the 50' journey, resuming uninterrupted. TFP reset, lost all satellites. found 2 after 10 min, no lock as I write. Again, SNL levels on the TFP are half those on the Tab.

All of that seems consistent with some kind of antenna or attenuation problem. The GPS works, SLOWLY and SPORADICALLY, so the chip might be OK. Weak signal from reworking case or shielding might make the function so marginal that it's unpredictable.

Weak signal doesn't explain, or I don't understand, the "GPS reset" problem I had been seeing, where the GPS kept seeming to reset after it struggled, and got, a lock.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
wow, completely missed that post. puts things more into perspective now. thanks for depleting that. so like he said, it could be a software issue of GPS timing that could be remedied with software update. also that if an airplane GPS shielded with aluminum can perform with no issues, then prime should also. so many variables...ahhhh! lol I do hope its just a software issue though and at least it'll perform better. that other info was very useful also. as far as line of sight and atmospheric conditions go.

for your second part, I hope Google doesn't catch whiff of this too much. not trying to have our devices stripped out of android market place. end up being like those early model Archos tabs., like 7IT, that had to get android market hacked up there..lol
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Let's do some deductive problem solving:

1) Asus has a proven track record of designing and manufacturing tablets to a competitive standard. The TF1 and Slider demonstrate that. So it's unlikely they've lost the skills and their next generation tablet should be expected to perform as well as the one's that preceded it.

2) From the tear-downs, the parts used for the Prime all seem to be of high quality and in some cases better than Asus' previous tablets. So the components shouldn't be an issue.

3) The Prime is much thinner than any of Asus' other tablets. With access to samples of other manufacturer's thin tablets Asus isn't a pioneer and it wouldn't be difficult for Asus to replicate their designs. So it wouldn't seem the Prime's thinness should be a major issue.

4) The Prime is the only tablet on the market that has a solid metal back. Those that don't (including Asus') haven't reported issues on a consistent basis with Wi-Fi, Bluetooth or GPS signal reception.

Based on the above, I don't think it's a leap to assume it's the metal back. Especially when an article posted god knows how many pages back specifically talked about the sensitivity of any GPS receiver and it's aversion to metal.

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 AM ----------

If anyone want to see, here's two vids of a G-Tab locking satellites indoors from a cold boot. One's with Wi-Fi on and the other is using GPS alone.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=20784276&postcount=355
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] nonnot:
Just got mine. Doesn't seem to have a GPS problem.

Does not work indoor, first floor. Maybe my room is surrounded by too many walls and other houses. Tried outdoor with gpsfix, gps essential, etc... all get fix quite easily less than 2 mins. it sees more than 8 or 9 sats fairly quickly.

The wifi is kind of disapppointing, but I am not sure what to expect from a tablet like this. at the same location, DL, my MBP gets around 18-20Mbps, The best TBP gets is 13.5Mbps. But for upload, they got the same speed.

There is also some bleeding, obvious at the booting screen.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] g0t0:
test-----Serial No---------------Repair Status-----------------------Receive date

1-----BCO*****55**----Waiting-[WB5] Wait for Repair\Test\Aging---2011/12/29

My online status from ASUS Repair site
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Put it in airplane mode, do a cold boot, and try again to see if you get the same results.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
Decent steps to conclusions BUT... the case material does not nor would not explain how some of us, when we can get good solid locks or see many satellites, loose them all by interacting with the tablet in some way that is software related. As I pointed out many times in my case, I can get locks and see satellites BUT the moment I switch to another app and come back or take a screenshot I loose them all only to have them all come right back. In these tests, the tablet was never moved from position, just touched. Thus, it seems to be there is some real software issues going on as well as switching apps or taking screenshots or interacting with the tablet - and not moving it - should not cause this immediate drop and reacquisition of signals. I can reproduce this behavior consistently - as can some others here - and never move the device so that takes the element of material or changing the devices location out of it.

And on a personal note, thought I follow your logic, I just cant see how the material would make that much difference as the signals can come out the front - 100% plastic and glass - and don't HAVE to try to come out the rear aluminum - even more so when on its back on a table the signal is not going down and then back up. Plus, again, a car is encased in metal on most all sides around the GPS which is moving relative to the above satellites and there are other places for the signal too travel out from. I get the point and all, and it seem some what reasonable, but at the same time, I think the argument has it's own flaws.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] nonnot:
i switched off wifi etc. but not in airplane mode. i guess it won't make a difference. i did a hard reset before going outdoor though, since i could not see anything indoor.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] cjbailey75:
Yeah bro. Im the mechanical design engineer for my project in navigation. At first i thought it was a software issue but i remembered faraday shields that are created when u put a gps in an aluminum box.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
All valid points. The fact that the Prime gets lost as soon as it's moved can't be explained by s/w. And the metal car has windows and the previous article that talked about GPS reception specifically said metallic tint on a cars windows will create interference so obviously the windows are how the chip's getting its signal.

The chip in the Prime is essentially just a more modern version of the one in the G-Tab. The TF1 uses the same chip as the G-Tab so Asus already has written HC code for it. Besides, the OS is talking to the chip, not the apps or any s/w Asus had to design. So yes, something could have gotten screwed up in the code but that doesn't seem like it would be the sole or primary issue. And if the conspiracy theory about Asus pulling the reference to the GPS sensor off their sites turns out to be true that doesn't point to quick and easy s/w fix.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
BUT this is not an aluminum "box". The full front of this device is plastic and glass. That reason alone is why I think this comparison is questionable.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
We should be able to agree that the more a signal has to travel through the worse the reception will be. If the metal back, which on other plastic backed tablets is the best signal source, is blocking the signal on the Prime, it has greater than a 50 percent signal deficit right out of the box.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] cjbailey75:
Thats why its weak n intermittent. Wifi as well. Maybe something cn be done on a softwaresi de but the magnetic interference is there.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] nxp3:
I had theory about why when you touch the tablet and go do other things the GPS lost signal, but I'm not an expert. Hear me out. The transformer has a tegra3 chip that supposedly uses 4 cores for intensive work, but uses less when it's not required, and it also only uses the 5th core when you're not doing much at all. What if the GPS processes are being put on suspend instead of working all the time in the background? Possible eh? I mean this is the first quad core device...it's the only different variable in all other tablets which may mean other hardware such as GPS may act differently.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
so does the Prime.. the whole face is a "window" - nearly as much surface area is window as is aluminum.

but just as you quote a previous mention by a poster, I will as well but paraphrase to make the point as I can't find the post at the moment. Prior to being rooted, someone noted that one of the files only editable when in root - a .prop file IIRC - is only making calls to 1 location to gather AGPS data to help find its location (something along those lines) and in fact other devices have several of these calls listed in this file to go out and ping multiple locations for better and faster location fix... thus, a simple potential software snafu. And, since updating that new OTA, none of us can root as it busted the root method, so it can be tested. Just something to consider
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
From an article posted earlier, it was said that when moving off the fifth core Nvidia had to write code to transfer all the data in memory to the higher powered cores and that latency could be an issue. What you're saying is interesting.

Two people have posted something along the lines of what you're saying but it points to interference. When placed next to a G-Tab while testing, the Prime seemed to perform better then when it was alone. I'm no engineer but that seems interesting too.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
BUT again, this implies your holding your tablet such that the aluminum back is always facing up or in a way the signal "has to travel through" the aluminum. We all hold the tablet, landscape or profile, at an angle such that in fact, more glass and plastic are facing up than aluminum so to use your logic, it seems like you and others are saying the signal MUST travel out the back no matter what it's orientation and then travel up to the sky. Versus just coming right out the "window" - plastic and glass full screen.

And on top of that, when it sits on a table it is 100% glass and plastic facing up just like a cars window... I cant fathom the signal traveling down through aluminum and table and then having to turn back up.. would it not just go up out of the "window".
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Using a window analogy, one window with drapes isn't going to let as much day light in as two windows, one without drapes and facing the sun. It would be teriffic if Asus could come up with a s/w fix but, idealism aside, there's a lot stacked against them. And the mysterious disappearance of the GPS Sensor off their website(s) doesn't bode well. It wasn't removed accidentally.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
Great point!!

We are all forgetting that the other big change here is the cores. GPS chip is proven, Asus is proven, Honeycomb software running is proven, tablets with GPS are proven, aluminum backing is open for debate still and duhhhh yes the Tegra 3 chip is new and that just might be an issue as the software had to be adjusted to deal with the Tegra 3 and in their software coding, they opted to give the GPS lower priority and so it gets cutoff and looses priority and positions in the running of software tasks. There is some real merit to this possible.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I admire your idealism. But simply, why should you have to go through any gymnastics to have a GPS that works like every other tablet on the market? We can't rule out a s/w fix but, if all this comes down to a design choice made by Asus that cut the ability to receive signals (Wi-FI and GPS) in half, it's a pretty questionable choice.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Scumbag Inc.:
I'm not too worried about it because once we gain root we will be able to modify the build.prop &/or gps.conf just like we did with the G2X.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
The closest thing to a aluminium-backed mobile device is the HTC Sensation. Since its release, HTC has moved away from this design. Even though it's partially metal, a large swath is plastic. In addition, they mounted antennas on the back plate to boost signal. From the Prime tear down, Asus didn't. HTC wouldn't have chosen the design they did and went to the expense of adding antennas if they didn't think it was necessary. Even with this, the Sensation had its own "Antenna-gate" issue when held in certain positions.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] ducktaperules:
out of interest could some one with a prime try testing the gps both in the dock and without the dock.

also test gps whilst whilst touching the back cover / not touching the back cover as the human contact may affect signal levels (we have seen this before with the iPhone 4)

it could be possible that holding the back cover could affect how fast / successfully the gps can lock on to satalites.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Note the use of the words "electrical field" and "transistors" in the wiki description of an LCD panel. Getting a signal via the front of the device is not as clean as it would seem.

In-plane switching is an LCD technology that aligns the liquid crystals in a plane parallel to the glass substrates. In this method, the electrical field is applied through opposite electrodes on the same glass substrate, so that the liquid crystals can be reoriented (switched) in the same plane. This requires two transistors for each pixel instead of the single transistor needed for a standard thin-film transistor (TFT) display.

---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------

Speaking of testing, if anyone has a stand-alone Bluetooth GPS receiver and can test the prime with it, assuming it works perfectly, that could help in figuring out if s/w is a source of the problem.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Scumbag Inc.:
Hmm, acording to Superguys system dump this is the sum of gps.conf:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Is it the same as what's used in the TF1? If not, if someone who's rooted puts that setting in the TF1 does it effect its performance? If it doesn't then that's not the issue.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] ducktaperules:
i guess you could also check how much difference the aluminium back makes by placing the TP back to back with another tablet (eg Samsung 10.1) and see if this affects the other tablets ability to lock GPS signals. some one with 2 tabs should try this and let us know how it goes.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
When I have time, I'll tape a couple of sheets of aluminum foil on the back of the G-Tab to see what happens.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
Why this test is pointless Asus said the aluminum back is the problem there's no need go further investigation..
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Scumbag Inc.:
Damn. Nope it's the same.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] don_cheadle:
ASUS is really failing at PR on this tablet. This thing is looking DOA.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I missed that. Well then, it is what it is. ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
This is actually the best tablet you can get and will be for while

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------

They need to optimize it the best they can from software then after that they need to apologize and tell us they'll fix it on the next tablet and that will probably be the end of this they are not going to make new back covers and replace everyone It will not happen
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
They can still recover. A lot of the issues are just early production stuff and can be tightened up pretty quickly. If they promote the Prime as having "geo-location" vs. "GPS" a lot of people that aren't going to use it for navigation would still buy it and not think any less of it. There's still a lot more to like about the Prime than dislike. To avoid bad PR, if they're proactive with existing owners and give them some options the whole thing should blow over in a couple of weeks.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] fuzzer:
Article at android police, repeating the same mis-information about WIFI and or 3g needed for GPS to work, therefore there is no problem with GPS on the prime:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...-thread-ensues/comment-page-1/#comment-163467
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] GCurry:
Here is a photo of SNL levels of Tab vs my TFP. East window, flat, after they have sat there for a while. So my TFP does get a lock, next to Samsung, facing up, no touching the case.

SNL levels are significantly lower for the TFP, if comparable (from the GPS chip?). if the SNL levels are marginal, that could explain a lot, but IMHO not everything.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] don_cheadle:
I think I'd rather wait for others to step up to the plate with the Tegra3 platform or some other platform. If ASUS is willing to say a feature doesn't exist over fixing it, they've pretty much made their priorities clear. It's not wise to spend money on products being made with no discretion towards user experience.

The major selling point of buying an ASUS Transformer is the fact they're an impeccable PC hardware & laptop manaf. However, if this how they act in the tablet market, they're not going to last.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] topher1978:
Evening guys, really keen to know if anyone has tried an external GPS receiver with the prime to see if this solves the issues. I have a voucher for a retailer in the UK which expires 5th Jan 2012 and would love a Prime if the GPS works (GPS / navigation is a real need for me).

I have a blue-tooth GPS receiver so this would allow me to pre-order a Prime with my voucher, otherwise i will have to get a Samsung!

Many thanks for reading

Chris, UK
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Diamondback:
Give me some minutes I'll test it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tdrussell:
The android police article mentions that Asus has removed GPS from the device features...I hadn't seen this yet. That's pretty dissappointing. Lost a lot of faith in ASUS.

TF201 / XDA premium
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
Barry mentioned this also. still waiting to see if anyone has tested this yet. don't really see any reason why it can't because it does support the BT protocol to allow it. we will see though once someone chimes in. some phones can be used as an external GPS reciever. I think my older win money 6.5 tilt2(Rhodium) phone can. I might try it out later n see if i can get them both to connect and work.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Scumbag Inc.:
How do you take a screen shot? I just went out in the yard and did the "spinning madman" thing with the prime. Spining it in a figure 8 in the air. After I did that I was instantly able to lock to 10/10 sats using GPS Status. I turned it off then turned it back on to recheck and got near instant lock.

edit: figured out how to take screen shot. give me 2 minutes to post it up.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Matthew Carson:
I have been playing with some software from the Market to make my phone act like a Bluetooth GPS, with mixed results. It showed that I was at 80°E longitude instead of 80°W - somewhere in the middle of China! However, I can't necessarily say if it was a problem with the software on my phone, on the tablet, or something else with the phone.

I did find a program called "TetherGPS" in the market that sends the GPS data from the phone to the tablet over WiFi. I installed it on both my phone and the Prime. I turned off all location sources on the Prime, connected to my phone as a hotspot, and started the server on my phone. Then I started the client on the tablet, and it shows my location correctly. In addition the icon in the status bar shows the GPS location being updated. I'd really like to take it on the road somewhere to see if it actually works in the real world but I haven't had time yet.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Once it finds the satellites it memorizes them. Unless you want to perform that ritual every time you move your Prime to a new location I'd say you've still got an issue. ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] L3rry:
Almost as good as the folks sitting indoors testing their GPS with wifi off. The tablets in the video already had a prior location lock so getting a GPS signal is much easier. The android location manager does not dump the stored location information on a cold boot. Near a window, after my initial location lock, my prime could from 10-11 satellites and lock on 7-8. The locks were weak, but no worse than that Galaxy Tablet.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Diamondback:
Okay just tested my Prime with my Jentro GPS receiver - no problems here, just as expected.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
You've got a bad one too! They pulled the feature off their U.S. website. Read back a few posts. It's really case closed at this point. Now it's just a matter of what Asus does for people that purchased before they changed the specs.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] don_cheadle:
Replace your Transformer Prime with a unit that has no GPS module at all?

Lol.. Watch.. They'll actually do it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Godswrath:
Found this:

"I disassembled one of the Primes and it locked onto a GPS signal and navigated from point A to point B with no problems with the backing off of it"

Source: androidforums.com/3731418-post9.html
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
that's great news. at least people will still be able to have an option. plus external GPS reciever is better or more sensitive than any in a mobile phone or tablet anyways, I would think.

did it connect right up, device to device? or did you use an app for Android to enable it? if so, what's the name of it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] don_cheadle:
Yeah. I saw that too. I don't know about that guy. He seems to be well-hated on android related forums. That and he provided no pictures or screens. Until someone does it with proof, that guy is just some random JO with anecdotal evidence.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] smashingblue:
I just got my Prime from BB and have another on its way from Amazon. The BB one cannot connect to a GPS satellite outdoors. Will try the Amazon one, but if neither function correctly I will be returning both and enjoying all the free compensation that Amazon and BB have given me, along with never buying a ASUS tablet again.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
that's from a member that was banned here just recently, JdBaker82. whatever he says should be taken with a grain of salt. he also said he doesn't own a prime yet he took the back off one. then he also said Asus Design engineers themselves called him personally to confirm his theories...lol. :rolleyes:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] ducktaperules:
i may be miss reading this but the post states that the told asus that had taken the back off so that they would admit that this was the problem.

it is very easy to say that down the phone but that does not mean that he actually has taken the back off. there is not mention of any testing that he did with the back off and no pics.