yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daneurysm:
As stupid as it is until the day El Goog puts it's foot down on UI standardization this will continue to happen with Motoblur, Touchwiz and--the worst offender--Sense. I'm sure there are more I'm not aware of (LG I'm looking at you).

The manufacturer sees this as another way to brand their device, make it unique...stand out from the legions of other Android phones. HTC (and to a much tinier degree Samsung) is also trying to set up their own ecosystem on the side by providing services that either they get a cut of (whatever HTCs movie service is called, I forget) or they get ad revenue/monetizable user data. HTC obviously seems especially furiously jealous of Apple's vertical integration provided by not just building the phone (which HTC does), but also the whole of the operating system (which Sense is an attempt to do) and the app store/itunes (which their movie service--and I'm sure music and market etc are in the making)....and nearly everybody is in the user-data market.

Frankly, from a purely business point-of-view, you can't blame these companies for at least trying. I don't have to like it...and I don't. But the vast majority of people don't notice let alone care. I don't actually think the differentiation thing is working for them at all. There is not a single non-geek that I know that has purchased a device just because of the UI overlay or any of the integration they may provide.

I also have not known a single non-geek to ever get a different brand of phone and even so much as mention a difference between an OG Droid and an HTC anything....so, I'm not so sure that a> people would even miss it and more importantly b> that it is even working. But, given that they don't appear to be losing anything for trying they will likely not stop until Google says 'knock it off', but, I doubt they will...while it seems unlikely Google wouldn't want to scare a major OEM off of the platform. Sense on WinMo is nearly indistinguishable from Android to 99% of all people. The same would go for Touchwiz on Bada....WebOS is now open source too, I believe.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] TurboFool:
Did I watch the same video as everyone else? Because what I saw looked fine. Jaw-dropping? No. Hideous? Also, no. It's a decent, cohesive skin that keeps HTC's look while maintaining all the functionality. Looks fine. I prefer a cleaner look, but I wouldn't be pissed off by it.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] squshy 7:
Taken in a different context, you could very well have just described the effectiveness (or lack there of) of advertising...lol

Honestly, i don't see why they don't just compete in the hardware market? I mean, in all honesty, that's what's driving the smartphone explosion, not manufacturer skins.

Manufacturer software, though, that's an entirely different story. Like Samsung adding all-share. But this is easily done (manufacturers adding these bits of functionality) without messing with the core system interface, and you'd end up in a better scenario: easier and faster software upgrades
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] abhaxus:
I agree. Honestly to me, with ICS all the vendor skins look more and more like a custom launcher and some widgets for added value. The settings and multitasking look very similar to ICS. I think the fact that we are seeing vendor builds on ICS so soon after launch is indicative of the similarity to the stock OS.

Really, we shouldn't be asking for Google to lock anything down user interface wise as that's just one step closer to apple. If Google locked out oems, they would have to stop users from using custom launchers as well. The only thing Google should mandate is that vendors release full source code (including proprietary drivers) for any android release. That would do a lot to clean up problems, if vendors knew their code was actually getting looked at by millions of eyes.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] SantinoInc:
I couldn't watch more than a minute of that video. I'm sooooo turned off by Sense after having been on the Evo 4G. I jumped on the AOSP train and never got off. I guess these phone companies feel the need to differentiate themselves from the pack. They do so by throwing their ugly UI on top of android OS.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daneurysm:
Given that Google is at the epicenter of this peculiar universe that may well be the actual context. Always remember that Google is an advertising company, first and foremost. The, nearly 100% free, awesome technology is just a very fortunate side effect.

If they did that they would have absolutely nothing differentiating the different phones besides price, for the most part...and that's a race to the bottom. Nobody wants that. It's like the difference between Apple's margins and everybody elses.

I'm not entirely convinced that we aren't already on a race to the bottom. Note my earlier comments on the lack of effectiveness of this type of branding to most people. (There are Sense fanboys, Touchwiz enthusiasts and even, shudder, Motoblur fans).

If they want to be Apple so bad why not go it alone and make your own damn OS and marketplace....oh yeah, that boat sailed 5 years ago. Apple won't license iOS. Android is king of the commodity currently. This is all they really can do.

100% Agreed. I think in a couple years when the dust settles we will probably see exactly that happen. Once Android stops getting "major updates" constantly. Once manufacturers stop pumping out a giant range of phones constantly and just make one really awesome flagship phone in 2 or 3 sizes and let the last model of really-awesome-phone be the second tier model instead of ****ting up the store fronts with a nonstop range of brand new crap. Once Apple has been squished back into their extremely profitable but small niche corner (just like with the Mac VS PC in the 80's). Once the 'next big thing' comes along that blows minds and changes and integrates society and technology just a little more.

Until then every Android handset maker is going to try to make a unique image and name for their small shop in the mall food-court that is the current Android landscape. lol
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] squshy 7:
I don't know that it would make them like apple?

You could "lock-down" the UI by simply telling them to make their skins removable, yet still be open source. How? By making that one of the mandates to receive the android emblem and Google apps (for those not aware, manufacturers need to meet a certain criteria in order to be granted permission to brand the phone as android and ship with Google's apps.

This is still far from being an apple model as the manufacturers are still allowed to throw whatever they want in there.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] xlGmanlx:
Now we are talking, but how do we get Google's attention? Otherwise it's just forum chatter. Folks that like the UI will still buy those phones, for us that like to tinker and tweek we aren't bound by waiting for the UI to be updated, we can let the community handle that.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daneurysm:
ding ding ding. I think that's a winning idea. Hell, if they want they can bury it WAY deep in the menus...(or even make it some arcane ADB command as far as I care.)

Though, again, I think the threatening the Google seal of approval and app market might be a delicate situation. With the existence of alternate app markets completely abandoning Google but keeping with Android is becoming more and more a realistic proposition. Hell, some might argue that a more carefully curated app market could even be preferable. I'm more of a wild-west kinda guy, so, I'll take the 4chan like free-for-all that the official Android market is...but...currently that is what it's like and so long as the important popular apps are on the alternate markets (and most are) Google could stand to lose a lot of eyeballs with threats like that.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] xlGmanlx:
They won't move away from Google market because other than amazon which already did it, who has the infrastructure or the resources to maintain or upgrade the infrastructure to handle a market? It's more then just the app that makes them stay its the better return on investment, otherwise they would have done it already.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] squshy 7:
[/QUOTE]

I don't know the "few-model" model is necessarily true, as the comparison (that i assume you agree with) is commonly drawn between this and the PC-Mac war, and look at how many models of PCs there are?

Hopefully it takes on the other characteristic: removable manufacturer bloatware. Lol

However, when you look at competing PC manufacturers, what are they really using to differentiate themselves? I say aesthetics. and to me, this is certainly a hardware feature. Sure, there's the unique pieces of software (like the all share example), and sometimes new hardware (see: small handful of laptop models that featured Second-Gen i-series first), but everyone always catches up, as you point out.

What it really comes down to, in my opinion, is a handful of aesthetics: what does it look like, hows the keyboard and mouse, etc., and things such as build quality, customer service (which is something the general public NEEDS to educate themselves on in regards to smartphone manufacturers: that characteristics of a company).
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daneurysm:
Well, I'm sure Amazon has the infrastructure and resource, already. Not only that, but, Amazon already pays a per-device fee to the carrier and/or handset maker for including their market...I'm sure if their market was the exclusive market on the device that they would pay much more or even offer something on the back-end.

I would imagine this would be insanely attractive to the likes of HTC et al if Google were to get heavy handed and demand no skins--vanilla android only.

All wild speculation, obviously.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] squshy 7:
Lol, petition petition petition. What better place to start than in Google's backyard, Google+?
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daneurysm:
I thought about this after I posted that first reply. Aesthetics are definitely important, all other things being roughly equal. A very distinguishing factor. (I actually think the Nokia n9 and new LG Prada are really sexy phones and would love if my E4GT looked like either).

I'm not sure how much hardware specs mean to most people...as an old-school geek it's all I see when I look at a device. But another thing I've picked up on over the years is that most people are not geeks and do. not. care. about specs past what they reallllly need to know about ("gee-bees and the wifi's")....but, looks? Oh yeah, that's something everybody can get on board with.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] squshy 7:
You know, I've spent many nights thinking about the implication of Amazon's market, and I've come to this conclusion: Google shouldn't care either way. Even if it's Amazon's market driving better apps, those better apps are driving people to android. And Google's biggest money-maker in Android is advertising; every time you search, use Google maps, etc, not necessarily their market.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daneurysm:
...and to draw that out further: More Android users drives more app purchases and downloads which drives more developers to the platform which increases the quality and quantity of apps which draws more users which draws more handset maker attention, etc etc etc.

Now, it is entirely possible to cut Google 100% out of the loop on Android. No search, no Adsense, no market, no nothing at all. Totally legit. Of course, as you mentioned earlier, they don't get Google apps but they also don't have to feed Google any eyeballs either. I'm surprised we haven't seen any big-brand defections yet. Though perhaps it's because then that handset maker would be all alone defending from the likes of APPL and MSFT. Not to mention probably open themselves up to litigation from other OHSA members...not that I think any of them would necessarily attack.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] JohnCorleone:
An intelligent conversation going on in this thread?! What is XDA becoming? Lol. I think some of these phone manufacturers should hire you guys

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] squshy 7:
That exactly. I think you can look at this as sort of a MAD scenario that Google has some power over: a major brand is not going to try and go rogue for fear of failing miserably. If Google plays its cards correctly, it can steer manufacturers how it wants without driving them away.

Such moves would have to be subtle and small, however. Like boiling a lobster? Perhaps.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] squshy 7:
Lol, strange huh? What's even more amazing is it's still marginally in-line with the OP, haha.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daneurysm:
I hate to just go agreeing with you again for fear of looking like some creepy mutual admiration society, but, yeah...I agree.

Though the degree to how subtle it would have to be could vary. What if Google's edicts end up working out really well for everybody? Vanilla Android, Vanilla Android everywhere....phones become nearly identical, except for the nerd-centric models with esoteric GPUs and fancy RAM, and the actual physical design is what separates them. Screen size and various other aesthetics....

Sales might flatten out for some and be bolstered for others as people who aren't paying attention just grab one that works like their last one--and that could be any brand at that point....but the Android label, as a whole, gets a massive dose of cohesion....like the iOS ecosystem. Where they differentiate is on industrial design...like the Apple devices...but with a variety unmatched by anything Apple has to offer.

In that (purely hypothetical) scenario just listening to Google would be better for everybody.

...****, I realize what I just said...perhaps we are the lobsters.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] squshy 7:
Haha, indeed, we end up being the manipulated ones.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] xlGmanlx:
Didn't I make that point by saying even though you could, only Amazon could really go out on their own outside the google market ;);). Who wants to take on that overhead in this day and age? It even more proves the fact that they could make the skins removable because there still is an element that will buy it on aesthetics and hardware over software. Making them removable encompasses them both. Thus driving more users/more android/more advertising so we can give more away model. That would put it as a serious peer to the 800lbs gorilla in the room, W8 ;), but what do I know?
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mazook98:
Lol, and no one's more surprised than me...

(I just got off work, opened up this thread, and expected some weird segue into LOS, or an HTC vs. Sammy fight, or even a SOPA/CarrierIQ/black helicopter conspiracy report talk:

But an intelligent, on-topic-ish, POLITE repartee?

XDA, you're making me blush, now.

+10
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Fataldesain:
I will go to my grave saying HTC is **** and sense is utter crap the worst of all UI I have seen. Yeah embossing and big fonts is the way to design HTC. Samsung is not better really.

This kind of **** is all Google's fault. No standards what so ever.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] il buono:
Damn...and I was enjoying the clean, intelligent conversation.

Sent from my E4GT
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mazook98:
Hey guys: I also just found this vid of the newest version of Sense from HTC: same rom, it appears, and still in another language (this one's in French), but a much better look at it:

http://goo.gl/W8yiX

It's still Sense, and it still completely covers up what we've seen in the Gnex, or the AOSP ports in general, but it seems to be running fairly fast, so it's a much better representation than the video that I posted in the OP.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] stargaterules:
I would just use Go Launcher like I do now and customize the s*** out of my phone. :)
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mazook98:
Yeah, or actually, you CAN install the stock ICS launcher as a separate apk, while retaining the ability to use HTC's widgets (which ARE nice), but you'd still be giving up all that space that's part of the Sense Rom. (Of course, there'll be workarounds for all that via XDA.)
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] stepinmyworld:
Lol people are out of their minds. ICS is the new android version and only a stock experience gives you the full experience... If you have an HTC phone which comes with sense, you think the phone will be wiped of sense and just have stock ICS? Use your brain people.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mazook98:
wut.

I don't think there's one post in here where someone said that. I'll go ahead and speak for everyone that has commented and say:

We all have dealt with enough Sense Roms in the past on various devices to know that a Sense Rom is a Sense Rom, no matter what you try lay over it.

That's just common knowledge.

(What's with the "Use your brain" comment, btw?
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daneurysm:
Admittedly, I haven't spent any time watching these videos. But...is this a matter of fact? That you can install the stock ICS launcher? The identical stock launcher? Because I have often looked for the real stock launcher, as the Nexus device of that period would have and could only find less-than-perfect facsimiles of the experience.

Granted, I was nitpicking over little things ("4D" app drawer, smooth fade+zoom in and out to/from app drawer...exactly like stock dock)....there was one that looked like it would be perfect, but, it never ever drew the app drawer right...it was too big and way off center...on 5 or 6 completely different devices, though the animation and app drawer looked right otherwise.

But if the availability of the real stock launcher is 'a thing' I'll stop my *****ing right here and just wait for the OEM's to come to their Senses (see what I did there?) and standardize on a UI or at least give us a 'pure stock' option....hell, like a "Safe mode" even.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mazook98:
Look in the Sensation dev forum.

Yes, you can definitely install the stock, vanilla (hahahaha), ICS launcher SEPARATELY, much like we can install the stock, vanilla, Gingerbread launcher separately on Android 2.3x (launcher2.apk is the name of ours, I believe)....

Of course, you must be running ICS in the first place to even do so:

It won't install on Gingerbread....

(*Wrong API, parsing error, yadayadayada.)

If I find the apk, I'll throw it up here, if you wanna take a look at it.

EDIT: here ya go... They still call it "launcher2", but this is the ICS vanilla, stock launcher from Google:

http://db.tt/KjI5J15P
[Motorola Photon 4G] jokersax11:
I need as many people to post this terminal output

Cat /sys/ram/info

Also include if you have trouble with 1.4 oc kernels.
[Motorola Photon 4G] peetr_:
Hynix-54nm:LPDDR2:x16:S4:1GB
[Motorola Photon 4G] jokersax11:
Same here
[Motorola Photon 4G] jrebo:
same, no issues 1.4 oc
[Motorola Photon 4G] jokersax11:
I know of one photon thats not that RAM and it is one that wont oc to 1.4 well. So I need to get a poll to see if we really do have two different chips. If so then guys with the 1.4 issues can be fixed with some changes to my source.
[Motorola Photon 4G] criptix:
Elpida-40nm:LPDDR2:x16:S4:1GB

Mine seems to be different

Could running the electrify rom cause different values?
[Motorola Photon 4G] e240:
Hynix-54nm:LPDDR2:x16:S4:1GB
[Motorola Photon 4G] Miquiztli:
Hynix-54nm:LPDDR2:x16:S4:1GB

Tried 1.4 newest test no issues with a couple of them.
[Motorola Photon 4G] pjree:
Elpida-40nm:LPDDR2:x16:S4:1GB

My Photon reboots on its own while sleeping using both new CM kernels. I can over clock to 1.4. Works fine with the Quark kernel.
[Motorola Photon 4G] 0mfgroflmao:
Same here.
[Motorola Photon 4G] magui43212:
This, and 1.4 works.
[Motorola Photon 4G] joukgal:
Same here
[Motorola Photon 4G] jrebo:
Cat /sys/ram/info

Also include if you have trouble with 1.4 oc kernels.

Be sure to state if your phone works or doesn't work with the 1.4 OC kernels. If you don't list this or have never tried the 1.4 kernel then it doesn't help joker.
[Motorola Photon 4G] atroph:
Hynix-54nm:LPDDR2:x16:S4:1GB$

All 1.4 kernels seem to be flaky for me. The latest two that you uploaded on the 20th booted, but would reboot in a minute or two. Kinda reminded me of my first photon before I took it back. Sometomes it would randomly reboot and sometims it would sleep of death on me.

I am using the CM7 variants.

1.3 has been rock solid since I installed it.

Sent from my MoPho. All typos are the phones fault.
[Motorola Photon 4G] criptix:
So which is the flaky chip joker?
[Motorola Photon 4G] kusanagi-sama:
This is the output I got.
[Motorola Photon 4G] jokersax11:
Its not that ones flaky, its that i didnt know we had two photon chips. The hynix is timed better but doesnt oc well without voltage. The other oc's without voltage but wasnt set right in source. The atrix uses elipia(whatever) and is properly set for lpddr2-667. The photon is lpddr2-600 with lower timing. Ive got to set both individually and hope both are timed right. Better memory oc will equal better cpu oc to a point. Thats one reason the atrix oc's a little better. But they have heat issues. Im hoping for at least 333 stable with 400-450 hardcore. If timing is off youll notice the phone slowing down. This is why i need it tested. But only the hynix is tweaked timing wise.
[Motorola Photon 4G] schale01:
Hynix-54nm:LPDDR2:x16:S4:1GB
[Motorola Photon 4G] cornelious2:
same here

........................
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] msavic6:
Anybody install the clear or carbon fiber ghost Armour on their galaxy nexus? I would love to see a picture of it installed.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] aimetti:
oo they have them in stock now? they are awesome on the iphone
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] Enhanced:
They seem to be instock online at their website but not available at their kiosks in the GTA area.

I'm a fan of Ghost Armor kiosks as they do all the installing and has a lifetime warranty where you can just go and swap out a new one at any time. I called one of their locations at Upper Canada mall and they said 3 weeks and they'll have em in. I went to their Vaughan Mills location and the guy said first week of January.

My phone is screen protector free until they get it in. GA is usually pretty orange peely as I had it on my Nexus S before hand but I don't really mind it. The extend to the edge of the surface (at least it did for the similarly curved Nexus S) and has good clarity. $20 bucks for installation and life warranty is what got me to stick with em from all the other options out there.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] msavic6:
When you say "orange peely" do you mean the texture of the screen protector?
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] dnlsmy:
I saw a couple of pics in another thread. I want to get the white carbon fiber version honestly though!
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] -Phazenine-:
Installed the full kit myself. Amazing product best I've come across so far. Absolutely NO orange peel affect
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] blperks2:
Can you post pics of the one you did yourself?
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] mushy_eyes:
Just to clarify, does the GA skin only protect the phone from scratches, or would it actually (kind of) protect the phone in case of a drop?

Currently thinking of adding the GA screen protector + Otterbox Commuter, but the skins look really nice! :O
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] -Phazenine-:
It's doesn't provide much impact protection but is great on scratches. I also added a case. Take care in taking it in & out of cases, your corners can peel up.
[Samsung Galaxy Nexus] -Phazenine-:
Carbon Fiber, Self installed