yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] JasonK75:
I guess if that is how you want to see it, then yes. If you look at it as a business owner then you see it is the cost of doing business. Back in the day I could buy a Big Mac for cheaper than it is today. We can never have things frozen in time, so to say.

I understand where you're coming from, I'm just saying you have to look at it from the biz side too. How else to you compete against the other two and make a network that will draw more users to it and therefore move up the rankings?
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] abhaxus:
As I said, retail rep. I listen to stupid people all day, and have no mute button, and keep a straight face. I'm sorry service is slow in your area, but 4 to 5 bucks per month isn't enough to break anyone... I can easily see where 20/month would, and for an account with 4 or 5 smartphones, the difference will still be more than 50 to 60 dollars between sprint and the big 2.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sfhub:
Let me fix that for you.

This particular change affects family plans, where Sprint is already not competitive because they force feed you messaging and data even if you don't need them.

Let me do the math for you.

1) Sprint gets rid of discount on lines 3-5 for family plans

2) Sprint gets rid of discount on line 2 of family plans

3) Sprint raises administrative "surcharge" twice in 18 months, multiplied by # of lines

4) Sprint reduces premier early upgrade privileges, then gets rid of it completely

5) Sprint introduces $10 Premium Data on "effectively" 4g phones, then forces it on all smartphones, even ones you purchased already

6) Sprint starts charging $35 "convenience" fee for warranty repairs

7) Sprint restricts which phones can be used with your grandfather plans forcing you to more expensive "everything" plans

8) Sprint increases ETF fees to $350 instead of $200 for smartphones

9) Sprint changes the arbitrator for disputes to Sprint-friendly JAMS

10) Sprint failed to invest in their network the last two years letting it degrade to unusable in many (but not all) areas

Nah, no big deal at all, when taken together.

Nickel-and-diming never seems so bad when taken individually. That is why it is called nickel-and-diming.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] jromankvcc:
Took me so long to post my message that sfhub could not have put it more clearly.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] jromankvcc:
Thanks for your input on vzw vs sprint for family plan. I can't access any of the companies through my work computer, but I'm still trying to find info in regards to tmo and att for similar plans.

Again, thanks.

Best regards,
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sfhub:
Nuff said.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] KCRic:
Assume wrong. The discount IS part of the contract. At least if you got it put in before you signed. My contract literally states $0 activation fee for the other two lines, only the first line was charged. Also a 25% employer discount applied to the base plan. <<< Written in the contract at the store the day I began service.

I'm begging Sprint to tell me this isn't a material adverse. $30 may not be a lot to some but to others that's a bill, or part of one. It has nothing to do with fairness or anything like that. I signed a contract and I expect them to honor the terms of it. When you but a new car - there is a warranty. A warranty is a contractual obligation on the dealers part to fix anything that goes wrong. So what some of you are saying is that it would be fine if your engine went out and they told you tough ****. Or your fixed rate loan goes up in price - why? Because. No other reason behind it.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] drksilenc:
or a better one its like getting a lease with a specific ammount of mileage per year set to 5k and them just moving that to 4800 for no reason
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Whosdaman:
This has been true since last year...lmao not news
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Zoidpilot:
I keep returning to this thread and have read every single post. I keep hoping that someone will counter post the OP and call BS or something...
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] n01un0:
I call BS or something

Your wish is granted

Merry Christmas!!

Sent from my SGSIIE4GTuvwxyz....should I touch my nose or walk a straight line now?
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sfhub:
Actually it hasn't.

Last year they stopped the discounts from applying to lines 3-5. After that point, discounts only applied to lines 1-2 that are part of the base plan.

Now they are breaking up the base plan into a $110 component for line 1 and a $20 component for line 2 so they can remove the discount on line 2.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] jirafabo:
If this is how they breakdown the line 1 and 2 charges, then I will be ok with that.

However, I will still probably be leaving Sprint. I have been with them for 11+ years and I stuck with them because they usually had better phones, better prices, better upgrade plans. Now, every month I hear that one of those great features is being cancelled. They no longer offer anything the others can't offer me. I will choose my future service provider based on the phone I want, and that will be the next Nexus, something I've been hoping on getting from Sprint for a while.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] choyt2011:
Don't you just love how in the fine small print on your contract that Sprint is able to change things and not consider it breach of contract. I sadly think once you sign a contract...until that contract is up the said changes don't apply. Instead we all get these suprises..Sad!
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Whosdaman:
That's wrong. Line 2 is free. Check your bills
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sfhub:
Are you actually reading the OP?

STARTING FEB 2nd, 2012 (ie not today, won't show up on today's bill)

Line 1/2 $129.99 => Line 1 $110.00 / Line 2 $19.99

Your NVP discount 10%, 15%, 27%, 28%, etc. will then only apply only to Line 1, no longer Line2
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Whosdaman:
That wasn't in the op... But it was in the source. Sorry
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daryelv:
You broke this down to very simple terms, I'll update the Op with this if you don't mind. Maybe people will see it clearer.

-Daryel
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] joey3002:
please update the op.. this was helpful
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sfhub:
Go for it.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Whosdaman:
Calm down its in he ****ing source. He just copied what it actually said. Not like what you guys could do... Jesus
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] fatboypup:
Just tried to find a similar plan on vzw omg it'd be like 200 more a month
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sandhuxda:
And, wait till Clearwire goes bankrupt or stops upgrades to their WiMAX network. Will Sprint build a LTE network from scratch then? I probably will stay with Sprint after this price increase but will bolt at the first chance I get.

That said, it will be a bad day for consumers when Sprint goes under (and go, they will) because effectively we only will have AT&T and Verizon left.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Whosdaman:
That's what they are doing now... Clearwire is just a partner to Sprint. Their lte plans originally did not involve cw at all, and in fact didn't even involve lightsquared either
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] &roid:
lol! What an observation! +1
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Jayavarman:
Clearwire just received a billion dollars via new wholesale agreements and an equity offering. They are not significantly expanding Wimax anymore, but will start building an LTE network With the failure of the AT&T and T-Mobile merger, Clearwire's deep spectrum holdings look like a prime acquisition target.

Sprint is also building its own nationwide LTE network for unveiling in the second-half of 2012; complete footprint by end of 2013. Clearwire's LTE buildout will first supplement it in high-demand metropolitan areas. Lightsquared is also supposed to provide LTE capacity to Sprint customers pending FCC approval.

Sprint recently had a successful sale of hundred of millions of dollars in bonds, albeit it at high interest rates. It will not fail anytime soon, but may find itself bought out or merged with another entity such as T-Mobile.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sfhub:
Sprint's NV plan is solid. They should have done it this way from the beginning instead of starting so late after the network languished.

Sprint sold $4b in notes, $3b at 9% and $1b at 11.5%

Borrowing more money INCREASES your chances of failing, not decreases. The way you "fail" isn't by falling down. It is by missing the interest payments on your debt obligations. More debt at higher prices means more interest payments.

If you get a 3rd mortgage on your house, does that increase or decrease your chances of "failing"?

Even if Sprint "fails" though it is doubtful your service would get interrupted as bankruptcy court would allow the network to continue being operated while a buyer is found for the (possibly broken up) assets.

If Sprint actually delivers on NV before running out of money then they will be in a good position from a network perspective.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sandhuxda:
I know Sprint has a contract with Clearwire under which Clearwire is supposed to finish building a portion of it by June' 2012. But look at the monies involved - Clearwire/Sprint are talking about at the most a billion dollars for the LTE network. Compare that to what AT&T or Verizon spent building their LTE networks which seems to be 10 times as much.

So either Sprint/Clearwire will build a much smaller LTE network which won't go down well with consumers or they will go bankrupt trying to spend more. Unhappy consumers because of small 4G/LTE footprint will also result in customers leaving Sprint and eventual bankruptcy.

Basically, wireless networks are an arms race and only the deep pocketed will survive - and Sprint does not have deep pockets.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Whosdaman:
What are you talking about? Sprint is investing $15 billion into Network Vision. They are investing $1 billion into Clearwire just to keep them alive
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sandhuxda:
Source please? AFAIK, Sprint raised $4 billion in debt recently:

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...t-offering-hints-clearwire-funding/2011-11-07

*BUT*

"In a statement, Sprint said it may use the new debt for redemptions or service requirements of outstanding debt, network expansion and modernization and potential funding of Clearwire."

So all of that $4 billion isn't going to Network Vision, some of it will go towards interest payments on existing debt or paying it off, some of it has already gone towards buying the debt that Clearwire raised and remaining will go towards the LTE network. Still puny compared to $14-16 billon capex of AT&T or Verizon annually.

Sprint already has $15 billion debt on it's books and a negative cash flow so they will have to raise even more debt to cover their operating costs and capex. If everything works out according to Sprint's plans then they may be out of the woods in 2015 but we all know how plans operate especially that project 3-4 years ahead :)
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Whosdaman:
Source is their network strategy meeting a month or so ago. Go look it up. Analysis railed on them of why they were spending so much money when they could invest 100 million in cw for the same results. But it wouldn't.

Sprint will have the best LTE network hands down. LTE on 800, 1600, 1900, and 2500. Advanced Voice and data on 800 and 1900. And wimax is going to stay on til 2015. Sprint is already working on LTE Advanced. It's coverage will be similar to Verizon when Network Vision is completed, except it has more spectrum and a stronger coverage overall.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sfhub:
Santa Claus is real.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sandhuxda:
Well, if they manage to pull it off, then all the power to Sprint. It will be good to have a viable competitor to AT&T/Verizon. But I suspect Sprint will be a few dollars short on their ambitious LTE plan.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] joey3002:
I did get a chance to "test" an iphone (gasp... dont shoot me yet..) during the holiday today.. It was a verizon iphone to boot. If you read my previous comments about 3g speed.. I did a speed test on my sprint phone and the iphone at the same time.. several times and my sprint phone was faster 3g wise everytime by a little.. however, the upload speed crushed verizon.

I was doing 3-400kbs up while my moms iphone was doing under 50.

My wife just looked at me funny and said.. enough with the phones already. So I humbly went back to my corner of the room :)
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Jayavarman:
Companies miss interest payments when they are

not able to borrow more money.

;) Thus, last month Clearwire threatened to miss an interest payment and default unless Sprint coughed up more money.

Same with mortgages. You only fail when:

1. Your in-flow of cash is exceeded by the out-flow and then

2. Your creditors refuse to lend you anymore money.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sfhub:
You are going in circles with your argument (or alternatively arguing two-sides of the same coin)

1. A reason your in-flow of cash is exceeded by the out-flow is precisely because you took on too much debt and too high a rate. Thus by taking on more debt at higher rates you are increasing the chances this event happens.

2. A reason your creditors will refuse to lend you any more money is you've already borrowed too much relative to your earning capacity. By borrowing even more money, you are increasing the chances for this event happening.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Jayavarman:
Aha. So now you are adding "higher rates" to the mix. Again, it is not debt servicing that primarily leads to defaults. The main reason for credit in a capitalist economy is that you are going to use that borrowed money (that you did not initially have) to generate more wealth than debt. Thus, a highly leveraged corporation will fail because they did not increase their revenue (and cash flow) from their goods and services, not necessarily because they borrowed more money.

You state that borrowing itself is a red flag. I want to dispel that notion and state that borrowing and continued borrowing is a natural and integral part of our entire finance system and economy. After all, credit is at work when you... go to work. You agree to work for however many hours and days, but do not get paid until perhaps the end of the month. During that run-up to payday, you are giving your employer credit. Does that mean the business now has a better chance of failing? ;)
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sfhub:
Nobody said borrowing in and of itself is bad. We aren't discussing the merits of the capitalist society. We are talking about Sprint.

Sprint has already borrowed quite a bit relative to its market value and earning capacity. That they are borrowing even more is the red flag.

We can go on forever, but there is a reason why Sprint debt is junk status and they have to pay over 11%. It isn't because they are a safe investment.

You can go through however many circuitous arguments you want. The rate Sprint is paying is directly related to the risk (of default). The credit agencies have already factored in Sprint's assets, their earning capacity, current and expected, etc. All things considered they gave them junk status. Increasing the debt load further, when you are already junk status, will increase the risk of default *for Sprint*. We aren't talking about any other company here.

Before you go twisting words, junk status doesn't necessarily mean you are going to default. Borrowing billions more when you are already in junk status does increase your chances for default because all the factors that put you in junk status are going to get even more pressure.

Debt in the general case isn't necessarily good or bad. Sprint's specific debt load is worrisome and increasing it further just makes it more worrisome.

You can't compare a AAA-rated entity borrowing money for short-term liquidity to a junk-rated company taking on even more long-term debt.

I can tell it will be pointless to discuss this further with you as we'll just go in circles forever.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Shoulon:
sorry I tried to read up but I'm abit lost. So I have a family plan with 4lines. So after Feb.1. Only my line will get my discount?

Since sprint is changing terms that means as of Feb.1. Everyone will have 30days to leave without etf correct?
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Drumrocker:
Incorrect..Discounts are not part of the contract you signed.

After Feb 1st only your line will received the discount.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] JohnCorleone:
Damn, that hurts! Thanks for the quick summary. I was about to read this thread to find out about my 3 lines
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Jayavarman:
I only sought elaboration and thank you for the follow-up. No need to become "pointless". ;)
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] DevilStrider:
As soon as my contracts are up I'm leaving and going to verizon.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Whosdaman:
Won't make a difference after 2012. Sprint will be cheaper and have unlimited data
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] JohnCorleone:
So Sprint is definitely sticking with unlimited data?
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] ungovernable1977:
I hope youre right Korey... did you see all these other changes coming? Kind of hard not to speculate they will jack things up even more after all the changes. I especially loved the most recent bye bye premier letter... salt on the wound...

---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------

(me cursing the iPhone at sprint bull****)

Yes because this discussion is all about little businessmen making profits... but glad to give you a chance to brag about your gain at the sprint customers loss. Youre welcome.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Whosdaman:
Sprint is doing everything it can to keep unlimited data. They are doing everything to prevent changing to a T-Mobile Data plan structure of throttling. Still unlimited, but that will be the next step.

I've been telling everyone who asks me. If you can leave who ever you with including Sprint before mid-2012, go to Verizon right away. After mid-2012 Sprint is the carrier to be with or it won't matter between the two for awhile. If Sprint keeps unlimited after 2012 then Sprint will start to take over.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] ccline84:
I find it odd people are complaning about nominal increases or minor things going away when you probably only joined Sprint because it was cheaper in the first place. They're still cheaper and still have unlimited data on their phones. I've personally been a customer for five years and an employee for four. I've been through the ups and downs, but have faith Sprint will win out in the long run. I consistently have people coming in from Verizon and AT&T paying over $300 for their family plans. We can usually always beat that by a hundred or so dollars.

Sprint has never let me down, always accomodated my needs, is normally cheaper that the other carriers, and my 4G speeds in Denver are consistently 10+ mbs. If you're that butthurt go spend $50-$100 more for capped data elsewhere. I don't see how that's helping yourself. There's a reason Sprint let a huge chunk of customers go a few years ago. They were dead weight, complaining, fickle, no way to please them whiners. Not saying anyone in here is that necessarily. But hell, a lot of you could have fooled me.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] abhaxus:
Not really that bad... They split the plan so that the share plan is 110 and the 2nd line is 19.99. At most your bill will go up by 6 bucks (at the rare 27% discount).
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] ungovernable1977:
i think most people here are not just complaining for the sake of it... its just the nickel and dime methods of raising revenue, not just making it apply to new contracts (iDrones), and a lack of confidence that sprint can/will deliver on network vision, etc. I have had sprint off and on since the late 90s i believe... and always loved the clear calls... no walkie talkie static etc... then i really liked the upgrades, especially when i got into smartphones... then loved unlimited data. So the network is terribly aged, no more reasonable upgrades (i cant imagine the android crowd waiting for the snails pace iPhone update pace), and all the nickel and diming (and loss of unlimited on non-phone devices... when all comm companies are trying to get greedy with data merely because they can), we worry for our precious unlimited... both for our own selfish reasons... and that the price point is not really much of a difference for a lot of people... making unlimited sprints true strength... its not just because were cheap or poor... but im glad you see customers who dont bend over every time a company suit douche finds a way to score a bonus by saving the poor poor company a few bucks.... corporations are not people. If nobody protested stupid policies we would all be ****ed... some just sit back and open wide and let others make their excessive lifestyle possible.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] KCRic:
So you want to compare apple to oranges? I don't like AT&T one bit but their 3G is much fast than Sprints. Now they have LTE (for what it's worth). WiMax is horrible on battery life - more so than LTE and that's on top of the **** coverage. So why should I pay anything even remotely close to anyone else's prices.

If they want to raise prices they need to apply the changes to new customers - not existing ones or long time patrons. To do so is disrespectful and bad business. I joined Sprint with a set price and the promise that I would have a 25% discount applied to my plan. To find some b.s. loophole in order to make me pay more - even by one cent - is crap. Will I complain? Yes because this is not in line with what I signed up for. Had it been this way from the beginning I *may* have still signed up but probably not. Honestly the only reason I came to Sprint is because of the T Mobile/AT&T fiasco and I was not going to become an AT&T pawn again.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] bushdiverq:
They allowed me to cancel 1 family plan without ETF so far. It is a little tricky to cancel my extended family plan. I have to get everyone on board.

They offered to buy back my phones also. The only one I am selling back is an EVO for $100. They didn't offer enough for the rest.

I went from paying $164 a month for the following 5 phones, 2000 minutes txt/data/mobile to mobile/$5 per line unlimited incoming to $332 a month in a little under 24 months.

I wouldn't complain to much because it is still decent, but with a max of 75Kbps data speeds in Tulsa, I am willing to pay double if I have to. Verizon gets 30Mbps here. I can't even get twitter to load on Sprint network. Back when I was on my Treo 755 I would get 2 Mbps speeds(4 years ago).

edit BTW We have been with Sprint since 1997. We have 12 lines.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] abhaxus:
Just wondering where you are getting the data on WiMax battery life being worse than LTE? Pretty sure they both have the same problem right now; no SoCs have LTE or WiMax baseband radios built in. That's also the reason apple didn't launch a 4G iphone. 2012 will be the year where the first SoCs with LTE launch, and then LTE will be much better.

That said, in my area, I don't notice any huge drop in battery life using 4G all day (not on my OG epic once GB leaks started coming out, not on my ET4G either). Then again, I don't use a lot of widgets or background data so my 4G radio probably sleeps most of the day anyway.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Silent25r:
I will leave if they increase my plan. I have my contract and that discount is on it. When they removed the discount on the extra lines they told me I could drop them then since it was in my contract. We worked out a deal so I kept the lines. Just recently upgraded a few devices. Wouldn't be bright for them to just let me walk which is what they will have to do if they raise my fees.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] KCRic:
I must be reading this wrong. Did you really mean to say no phone out there has WiMax or LTE radios in them? I must be missing something or reading it wrong.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] drksilenc:
they have an additional chip for the wimax or lte in them they arnt built into the soc like the cdma or gsm chips are. qualcom right now is making a chip that has lte built into the soc rather than on a seperate die which will greatly improve battery life