yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Based on what we know now and Asus' announcement there's zero chance of any Prime working at anything near a competitive standard. If any of you that care about using a tablet for anything other than geo-location get the Prime you're nuts. Even a pic posted of a Prime working in a car which was supposed to prove it was OK showed only 6 out of 9 satellites and accuracy to 90'. And that was with GPS Test, not navigation s/w and the Prime was flat on the dashboard which isn't even realistic. Those are awful results and useless for navigation. And I'm assuming that's the best whoever took the pic to prove everyone wrong could get.

As they say caveat emptor.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] zoodles:
GPS problem not due to metal back?

A very unscientific test suggests to me that the GPS problem goes further than just the metal back of the Prime: if I turn my Prime upside down and put my Samsung Galaxy S2 on top of its back, with the Samsung in Flight Mode (which I presume prevents it using wifi or packet data for GPS assistance), the Samsung gets a GPS fix using 6 satellites when sitting on my desk. The Prime, on the same desk, cannot get a fix and sees no satellites.

To me this suggests that the problem isn't so much the metal back as the circuitry inside the Prime.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] kcshmo:
Not sure if you know what you are comparing. The way that Asus is providing GPS does nothing more than providing a coordinate (longitude, latitude, and elevation). It doesn't even put you on a map. Garmin/Tomtom charge so much because map data are expensive, and they are including that in the price of the device you buy from Garmin/Tomtom. On the Prime, it's google or whatever software to takes that information to plot the coordinate on a map. Google doesn't charge for the map and navigation usage. Therfore, the functionality from Asus doesn't warrant the price you mentioned.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
GPS is omni directional. The Prime's only getting half the signal of other devices becasue of its metal back and it's not as clean. And the reflective properties of the back cover may be making what signal it does get worse.

Next.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Anyone able to tether or use bluetooth GPS after the latest firmware update? With Prime force opening WIFI, and the issues with bluetooth/wifi atm... there might be some conflicting software issue.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] nxp3:
What he is saying is if he placed the prime on top of his GS2, then the GS2 should exibit same problem because of the metal back on his GS2, but it is not. Therefore, this metal back BS is just that....BS.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
Barry are you keeping your Prime? seems like you really want that GPS feature. just curious if you are keeping it regardless.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
That, or even because the front signal's blocked the SGS is getting a signal through its perimeter or from below the Prime. What's it sitting on? A wood or composite desk? It's more a tribute to the SGS than it is a defense of the Prime. And Asus gave up defending it and is no longer looking for a solution. Why can’t you?

A multi-national company with untold resources just embarrassed themselves publically. Do you really think if this was solvable problem they would have done that? No matter what the cost?

I don't know why some of you are still holding out for some sort of "ah ha!" but it's amusing to watch.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] csmall:
So GPS was listed as a feature correct? If it doesn't work than does Asus have a potential class action pending? I'm just asking because it sounds like false advertising...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I have a UK 3G G-Tab that I use on AT&T for $20 a month with unlimited data. 3G's the most important feature to me so it'll be a while until I get a Teg3 from any manufacturer. I got sucked in to the Prime drama because I'm the go-to geek for all my non-technical friends and I told quite a few of them to buy it (which they did) as "the best Wi-Fi tablet currently available." The jury's still out. ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] PJTOUCHHD:
What Problem..?

I sent an email to Asus UK - they replied stating they are not aware of any problems reported:confused:

Provided me with this link: http://www.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Pad_Transformer_Prime_TF201/#specifications

Also added that the GPS is still in the spec and hasn't been removed.

:eek:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Yes, there are grounds. People have screen shots of the feature before it was pulled. Asus Sweden admitted to pulling it off their website because, as currently sold, the Prime is "not intended for navigation." I'd imagine Asus will come up with some sort of solution for people being able to return them even if the reseller doesn't allow it. As there really aren't any damages, I don't think it'll come down to any litigation if Asus mans-up.

---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ----------

Has it gone on sale there yet? Taiwan, the U.S., and Germany were pulled before or as sales started.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] PJTOUCHHD:
No not yet, it's still on pre order, due a couple of weeks...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] liderbug:
Trip report

Just got back from a 80 mile round trip. Colo. Hwy 83, ColoSpgs <-> Parker [ craigslist - CP1500AVRLCD - $50 :D ]. Now maybe it would have been better if my Honda Civic were a convertible - s'not. Anyway driving along - open road - 11 birds using 6 - 30 seconds later, same open road - 0 birds and not a clue where I was. 30 seconds later - 4 birds - no 6, no 2, then 8, then 1, then..... Now I know they move but not that fast. The in car nav never blinked, not once.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] R3GUL8OR:
The Best Buy here in Colorado Springs didnt charge me. They even refunded my shipping charge.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drkmtr:
I carried out a test this evening, results here...

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=20989960&postcount=70

*Mod's - I may have posted the results in the wrong thread - if you think so, could you help me by moving it accordingly?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] gruntguy:
Sorry for the slow reply, I checked out the thread and I don't think I was using it extensively enough to notice the problems that are described. I'll do a quick test to see if I really do have the same problem (won't be surprised if I do).

Thanks
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
I, for one, just don't fully believe the issue totally rests on the metal back. Period. I think it is an easy scape goat and it seems like so many people just buy into that and kind of gloss over the posts about how the prop files and such that run the GPS are poorly written, dirty code and incomplete. That alone is software.

Not to mention I see to many odd satellite changes, with no change in location of the tablet or movement of it, in simply interacting with the tablet by say pushing the buttons or changing apps. A simple touch of a capacitive button can make all 8-9-10 satellites just drop off the display and get reacquired. That is NOT metal back related as for hours they display there on screen and then changing apps or touching a button and pooof... gone only to come back.

You all can buy into that metal back as the sole reason and the end all be all answer if you want, I don't.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
And your choices are?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
First, the tablet needs root. Once root is done a dev, OR anyone with the right knowledge, can go in and properly code and clean up and add to the prop files and other related files that give the GPS crucial information on how to act. It has been clearly pointed out some of these are not properly written or incomplete. But people just roll right over that and focus on the metal back.

Second, given the other huge change about this tablet from any other is the Tegra 3 chip, again, once root is attained and a more savvy dev is able to get in a poke around, there very well might be a chance that the GPS is not using the cores properly and thus, we get sporadic results given how the Tegra 3 chip and it's companion core delegate workload. Another interesting possibility people just roll over and focus on the metal back as it has been repeated over and over and over as the cause.

Do not think for a second that if it were as easy as these 2, Asus would just do it. I don't believe that and the fact that dev's find hidden abilities in phones and tablets and turn them on, improve native functions and fixed functions that never worked with improved code and ROMS and such, there is no reason it cannot be better done by an outsider... that fact has been proven hundreds of times in the released ROMs, kernels, hacks and such giving us functions the factory & developers never could and a guy in Russia can.

So my choice? I am riding it out and suspecting we can get some real improvement thanks to a dev with a fatter brain and skills then you or I. But we need root first (which we do have technically as of today) but post ICS release.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Beards:
This information is directly quoted from Asus UK Facebook:-

"Regarding GPS: the Transformer Prime is made from a metallic unibody design, so the material may affect the performance of the GPS when receiving signals from satellites. Please note that this product is not a professional GPS device, and signal performance can be easily influenced by factors including, but not limited to: weather, buildings, and surrounding environments. Please understand there are limitations when using the GPS function. To avoid inconveniencing users who demand a powerful GPS device, we made the decision to remove it from our specification sheet and marketing communications. We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused".
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Three simple tests to prove the back cover guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt:

1) Take it off. If the Prime's still piss poor, it's not the cover. If it suddenly works as well as the TF1 (a fairly low bar), case closed.

2) The plastic-backed Lenovo and Acer will be out soon and revealed at CES. I know an editor from one of the online rags and he's going to test them (if he can) at CES. If another Teg3 works fine, it has nothing to do with the SoC.

3) For those excusing the issue as s/w because "the Prime was always supposed to run on ICS and HC was rushed" that answer will be available on January 12th.

Since people are still unwilling to accept that the manufacturer themselve's has publically stated that it's the metal cover, hopefully one or all of the above will convince them. I have seen the XDA development community work miracles, but never once have they been able to overcome a h/w issue with s/w. Make it better, yes. Fix what can't be fixed, no. A good example of their limitations is working with a device that has an Nvidia SoC because of its locked and proprietary drivers.

I'm not trying to convince people that don't want to be convinced. But people reading these forums could easily buy in to some of what's being said; especially since it's being said so strongly. And while it's not impossible that it's s/w, it seems like a long, long, long, shot.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] robomo:
I'm convinced it *is* partially resulting from the metal back. But to what extent is it because of the backing, and to what extent is from software has to yet to be determined.

And i have yet to see a formal, rigorous test with and without backing - a challenge to someone willing to take a knife to the back plate!

Basically - we've all spewed tremendous amounts of hot gases into the atmosphere (I included). It's time for hard community experiments.

We need to pull our sleeves up and "git'r done"
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
One more thing...

Before anyone writes yet another "

my

Prime has working GPS" post. The only thing that will convice me, and I'm guess many others, will be a video using either CoPilot or cached Maps in Google showing that navigation s/w can find, hold, and keep up with a signal driving a route that has at least two turns in it.

That is the most basic of tests and one that any tablet should be able to do with ease.

P.S. - Having the Prime completely horizontal on your dashboard or strapped to your roof doesn't count. Other tablets don't require any gymnastics to work properly.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] JoeyLe:
I suppose the back isn't put on the hardware with superglue (:p). So it could be done without any damage, however if there is a void sticker you've lost your warranty while doing it. Would be very helpful to the community.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] robomo:
We're pretty damn capable folk - I think people would be more convinced if there was more rigorous experimental data, and less hot vapor
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I have engineers that work for me. Your statement is what makes them so much fun. Nothing is real unless proven to a 99.9% certainty. To quote Freud, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] robomo:
The key is to find out *exactly* what we're dealing with here, *including* laying it horizontal on the dashboard.

However, I exactly agree - it *shouldn't* need that kind of gymnastic to work properly. But we've moved on from the "shouldn't" stage to "how can we fix this" stage. ASUS F'd up, publically acknowledged they F'd up, and we're on our own to fix their F-up.

First we have to see how big they F'd up, rigorously before we can determine proper courses to fix the issues.

Root and open bootloader for ICS will allow software devs to figure out ways to optimize the GPS software with the hardware that we do have.

Case mods like what you've recommended will help determine what we can do on the hardware side of things.

Between the two we'll have the best of both worlds - optimized GPS drivers and software implementation, and the best kick-ass hardware mods available. Marry the two and we'll probably make it work good enough.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Jon Clarke:
I just thought that I'd point out that this isn't exactly what Asus said in their official statement. What they actually said was:

"Regarding GPS: the Transformer Prime is made from a metallic unibody design, so the material may affect the performance of the GPS when receiving signals from satellites. Please note that this product is not a professional GPS device, and signal performance can be easily influenced by factors including, but not limited to: weather, buildings, and surrounding environments. Please understand there are limitations when using the GPS function. To avoid inconveniencing users who demand a powerful GPS device, we made the decision to remove it from our specification sheet and marketing communications. We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused".

Unless there is some other official statement that I've missed, all Asus have said is that it may affect GPS signal reception, not that it is the cause of all the problems. I suspect that the statement was thoroughly vetted by lawyers to ensure that it did not actually say anything that might be used against them later - hence the references to other factors.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
Does it really matter anymore at this point? If you like your Prime & are hoping for GPS to magically function (based on your own GPS expectation) later down the road.. JUST KEEP IT. If not, as many of us have pointed out what proper GPS functioning device is, return it.. or if your retailer (Gamestop for me) won't accept it, figure out a way to get a refund or compensation from Asus.

The constant bickering on what GPS is now useless, since Asus WILL NOT SUPPORT IT & have removed the GPS specification.

If you can't accept Asus's statement, and if you think you are clever enough to find a solution .. WORK ON IT. Prove us wrong, and show us your result & how to fix it. To my knowledge (as a dev mainly for PC), you can't fix an issue when you are limited by HARDWARE.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] drzoo2:
As an Engineer and having been burned by gut feel without enough data.....

"Sometimes a cigar can also be a sex toy" - William Jefferson Clinton :eek:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
Oh, well then, I guess I better just lay down then and give up since they say so and accept their position and "statement"... bah.. nope. Seen tech companies proved wrong many times despite their claims. Give it some time and root and then we will really see. Or, until someone really rips the back off one and gets a 100% difference in function. But in lieu of that, I'll take root and a smart dev any day over some companies claims about what can and cannot be done.

(It is almost laughable that just reposting their "statement" was suppose to like make me change my opinions somehow away from 3 fairly logical points I made)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Beards:
Now if you had asked for my opinion instead of shooting the messenger.....
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
Now that we have root - I have yet to likely tomorrow - a few guys in the other GPS thread are reporting some success with changing the GPS.config file with updated north american content... just like 1 of the points I made that might improve things pages ago. I plan to try it myself as I said I am more of a believer in software as the culprit than most.

Here is a great dissertation on why tweaking that file - thanks to root - can make a huge difference and improve the GPS issue via software http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=11342772&postcount=1
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
Exactly... I didn't ask for an opinion yet you still offered up a quote of your own free will to my opinion. Maybe next time just offer

your

opinion & dispense with the already known Asus quote as some sort of answer as I'd rather read that :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] j0p3y:
What would be a great alternative for me is for Asus to come with a separate gps-module that preferrably is clicked on the side of the tablet. Other solution would be a wireless module.

I won't use GPS frequently so a separate gps-mouse is Ok.

Also with a separate gps-module there's little problem anymore with metal-coated windshields.

Even dedicated navigation-devices have problems with that!

With one of my cars, having a separate gps-module is the only solution to be able to navigate by gps

.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] csmall:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5285/asus-eee-pad-transformer-prime-gps-issue-explained

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5286/asus-eee-pad-transformer-prime-teardown
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] nxp3:
The unit has a GPS in there already. Knowing the metal back would cause problem, they should have just create an extra port/jack for a GPS antenna, for some of us who needs a working GPS or want to use one.

---------- Post added at 07:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 AM ----------

Well there maybe a hardware fix. Anandtech has actually remove the prime. There's a vague description on how to remove it safely. If the problem is truly the metal back maybe the back can be taken off. A circular hole in the back can be cut out, reposition the gps antenna behind it, and covered with a plastic insert.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
Good stuff exactly what I was thinking all along.........It made sense mostly because Wi-Fi signal appeared to being slightly shielded too.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] shinzz:
I was just referring to people bickering about what GPS is and isn't. There was an endless cycle of people debating about GPS definition & testing procedure (after all the description, summary, & links.. another random post springs up to restart the whole debate).

Asus admitted that poor GPS functionality is based on poor design & hardware. Asus also made a statement & by removing GPS off of their specification.. ASUS will not support GPS. At that point, the person should either find ways to:

1. get a full refund or compensation from Asus/retailer

2. decide if Prime is worth keeping without GPS

3. force Asus to repair their Prime to have working GPS

But yea, good find on Anandtech article. Now, who has plastic opening tool & heat gun??
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] arcticreaver:
so i got home and tested the GPS. Seems like i canget a kock ongoogle maps sometimes but only when use wireles networks is checked. The signal is not a true signal as Navigation app will never get a GPS signal.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] andyxover:
i thinned everybody have their own definition of Laggy,

but opera on prime being more laggy than touch pad.. that's odd..

I feel zero laggyness with opera on the prime. could you maybe record a video of what you define as Lang? maybe its a different issue..
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Gnopps:
The Swedish site Swedroid did an in-depth review which included a gps test versus the TF101 (only GPS, no wifi/A-GPS support). The Prime received really lousy results.

Green is TF201 and purple TF101:

In car: http://maps.google.se/maps/ms?msid=...78959&spn=0.033857,0.102825&z=13&source=embed

Walking: http://maps.google.se/maps/ms?msid=...,13.179002&spn=0.011913,0.033023&source=embed
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jzen:
Going to bed now, got GTA 3 working great on prime. Maybe tomorrow I will make a video vs the touchpad in the opera browser.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] JoeyLe:
Cool, there is an GPS in it but its not working at all! Awesome, this tablet just keeps getting better and better.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Diamondback:
Not exactly true :) The "A" in AGPS only helps making the initial fix faster ;)

It has nothing to do with the accuracy.

So 20m is still not very good, not even average ;)

I have more and more the feeling they just slapped HC on it and spent all time working on ICS....

I hope this is true, otherwise they did a bad job here :(
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Diamondback:
Lol that was almost funny :D

I really hope they screwed the HC build in favor of ICS...:/
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BixBix78:
Does prime back come off?, I'm still on preorder) if it does can someone test gps without back cover? Sounds like Asus should ditch the metal and go with plastic
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Diamondback:
No, you can't rip off anything from the prime.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
what happened? You had just posted earlier that opera was running great on your prime. That it was just as fast as your Ipad2. when did things start going downhill?

Its crazy how some devices GPS works fine and others it don't. Smh
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] unknown_owner:
Just for me, I can care less if the GPS worked or not. When I had my original Transformer tablet, I never used it. I already knew where I was when I'm using the tablet on wifi...mostly at home. If I'm not at home, I'm someplace using free wifi (And still know where I am). Better yet, if I used my phone to wifi tether, I knew where I was.

Really what is the fuss about the GPS not working?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] stephen44:
so I don't often post - but sometimes feel the urge to - You cannot say it is not important for everyone just because it is not important for you.

As an example - I want to use the GPS in my motorhome - phone screens are just too small as the dash and windows are so far away from your driving position.

This was high on my list of +'s for this tab. Now is that a deal breaker - well it is for me to decide and not for you to tell me 'no'!

Just my thoughts

Have a Great Holidays - Stephen
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
I'm like you in that regard. but you know some people will actually want to use this as a fancy high tech navigation tool. plus people just want everything to be working properly. especially since it is an expensive device.