yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mrmark93:
It's the way the GPS system works. Once a receiver system is 'locked' onto one or more satellites, it now 'knows' what satellites to look for. The satellites are constantly moving overhead. The 'assisted' data is basically a database-primer for the GPS to know which of the satellites it should be listening too based on the current time and 'roughly' where the GPS receiver is located. If a GPS doesn't have this 'assisted' information, it listens openly for any of the satellites, and starts building a schedule of which satellites are overhead--this is the 'cold' boot, and why it takes longer than a 'hot' and/or 'assisted' boot (when the GPS already knows which satellites should be overhead).

There has been some misinformation about WiFi as well. The information that 'assists' the GPS from WiFi is actually from the actual WiFi access points that you are receiving. When Google sent their car around the country, they took note of EVERY wifi name/mac and logged it. When you connect to Google's services, you are sending all the WiFi access names that you are receiving to their servers, and they kick back a location. If you tether off of your phone, it will still work--if your phone is receiving one or more WiFi hotspots. If your phone is in the middle of nowhere, and you are WiFi tethering off of it, if your phone isn't getting Cellular signal (another location identifier), you won't get any WiFi information to 'assist' the GPS. If your phone has a GPS (that works! :cool: ), you can WiFi tether the GPS, but that requires an App on both the phone and tablet.

This was a bit off-topic, but with the misunderstandings of how these systems work, it was hard to keep reading it.

Oh, and very disappointing that the Prime has a sub-par GPS system, I've been waiting to get my hands on one of these, and together with the light-bleeding display and goofy touch sensitivity, it looks like I get to keep plodding along with my Nook Color-which may have ICS on it before the Prime :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] richB7:
I'll give it a shot, but I can tell you indoors the Prime will not see anything at all while the Nexus is quite happy.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Great answer. So, basically, the GPS signal is weak and when it seems to be performing OK it's doing so from memory or the aid of aGPS. Care to venture a guess on why it seems weaker than other devices?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BixBix78:
Just to add what I've found. Any help here

This Site has pics of prime internals some of which you can see gps chip. I think is is the BCM 47511 As seen in the below screenshot

wirelessgoodness.com/2011/11/02/asus-transformer-prime-gets-torn-down-kal-el-pictured/

This Site says broadcom "gps" for prime

liliputing.com/2011/11/asus-eee-pad-transformer-prime-tear-down-shows-kal-el-chip-25whr-battery.html

Here's a Site for the specs for the 47511

investor.broadcom.com/common/mobile/iphone/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=548713&CompanyID=BRCM&mobileid=
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
Please also report if they did a factory reset and wiped all your data and settings. I assume they will.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Then you can rule out the chip. So it's either the antenna, interference, the metal casing, or messed up s/w. I think the latter is less likely.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] richB7:
Okay, did the same test but this time put both devices in airplane mode, shut down and restarted. Though both took a little more time finding sat's, the results where primarily the same as the video. The Nexus found more and locked sooner but the Prime eventually got a fix too.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
I would say software problems or interfere with the antenna because of the metal backing
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mrmark93:
I'd agree that it seems that the receiver is the biggest variable between various 'Primes'; I have at least 10 or so GPS units, and there are times when they all seem to 'see' the same sats and get the same-ish signal level, other times not so much. There are also times where my most sensitive receiver on a clear day, won't get enough signal (atmospheric conditions) to lock. Most units like to sit still when 'cold' booting, and maintain lock when moving afterwards, trying to get an 'insensitive' receiver to get satellite lock while driving will be fruitless (it should work this way, but doesn't seem to be in this case).

Not that I have any better clue than any of you that have tablets, I definitely feel it's a hardware issue, and the few 'drop' fixes reported in this thread kind of point to assembly issues. I would think that Asus would have tested the GPS with a production unit with a metal back, so basic design flaw doesn't seem likely-but Apple released phones that had antenna issues when touched, so it's a crapshoot at this point.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Lock-N-Load:
So the signal can only move backwards through the casing and not forwards through the plastic and glass? What about when it is sitting on its back? The antenna signal goes down and around and back up?

Point is, the whole front of this device is plastic and glass... the signal can go through that direction and material so why is the metal back getting the finger pointed at it?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
Well if the antenna is pointed towards the metal backing the waves immediately hit the backing the waves may get disputed or absorbed or something of that nature again just a hypothesis
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I truly think they're all performing the same (or similarly) and that people declaring success had previously locked and/or had aGPS support. The failure of the airplane mode cold boot test indoors seems to confirm the weak signal theory. And performing OK when it's no longer getting a good signal is from memory and/or aGPS assistance, not because the GPS is getting a strong or proper signal. Someone posted a link to a Norwegian (or Danish?) review site that compared the Prime GPS to the TF1 both walking and driving. The Prime was pretty erratic. Bottom line is the Prime's not a very good stand-alone GPS device until Asus makes some changes to it. But it may not matter to a lot of people or even the majority of purchasers.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mrmark93:
The 'antenna' is most likely just a simple trace on the circuit board, along an edge--which should allow it to get signal from the front and sides as well as through the back, but with reduced signal.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
I dont know about everyone else but i cannot lock on any satallites without wifi so its a pretty big issue to me.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Even outside with a clear view of the sky? The reason I ask is that would show there's a difference between units because two other people that couldn't lock inside (not having previously locked or connected to WiFi) were able to outside.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
I will try again whats the longest it should take?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Two to five minutes from a cold boot?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] DaRacerz:
GPS is usually quoted at 45 min cold start for first use or if location changed drastically. But with assisted GPS it really should be in the order of few seconds with arithsmith (sp??) Data.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
As a comparison, two or three pages back I posted a vid of my G-Tab going from completely off to locking 11 satellites in two minutes without aGPS. The Prime seems to work fine with aGPS (WiFi) but struggles to find a signal when cold booted with WiFi off. So far, no one's been able to get it to lock indoors that way.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
Ok so after walking down my street like an idiot for 5 minutes it technically got a location lock but continuously sat there and spun a blue wheel trying to calculate the route to the address i put it not too far down the street which is worthless junk and definitely not working like any gps i have ever used.....
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wroche:
Well I don't know about the rest of you but my prime sees no sats at all inside outside wifi on or wifi off it doesn't matter.my droid bionic sees 10 plus in the same locations. In reality I will rarely if ever use gps on this thing, but it is the principal of the thing. This is a $500 gadget that should function properly
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
So that means while the signal's weak it's not the same in all of them because yours seems weaker. Let's call you the "worst case" sample. Unless we get a better high-end sample, the current winner is getting a lock but only outdoors.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
For what its worth my dads is doing the same thing both of ours came from gamestops but in different states I did alot of driving to get these!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] agtitan:
My Prime will be here Friday. I'm in the Texas hill country right now, and have 25 acres of land with a clear view of the southern sky to test this GPS out on. :) Will post results Friday night.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] nxp3:
No need to test anymore

Come on guys, the GPS is broken in a lot of our tablets. No more testings needs to be done, mine isn't working, yours isn't working. Lets try to get Asus to do something about it. If asus don't act, then there's not much time left to return this thing. Wait too long and they'll wonder why you've been hanging onto a broken tablet. I will be returning mine this fri or sat if there is no word from asus about this issue. I'll have to wipe everything off. So how do you do it? Is it hold volume down and power on?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Here's some irony. The Prime is using Broadcomm's latest and greatest GPS chip which, according to their PR, is signifcantly better than the one in the G-Tab. So it's definately not that and props to Asus for spending the big bucks. ;)

Prime GPS

http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=s548713

G-Tab

http://www.broadcom.com/products/GPS/GPS-Silicon-Solutions/BCM4751

---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

You can now say to Asus that the problem is poor GPS signal reception. And you know this because when you try to get a lock after a cold boot without Wi-Fi access you aren't able too or the result is poor. They can't fix want can't be articulated and repeated. 100 people calling India and saying something as general as "my GPS doesn't work" ain't going to get it fixed. And, sadly, you'll probably be told to "do a reset" and "turn on your Wi-Fi" until long after your return window's closed. Somebody just sent theirs to Asus for repair. If it comes back working that means they acknowledged and solved the problem. If it comes back NPF or working as designed everyone's screwed.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
I couldn't agree more what bothers me most is that someone at ASUS knows exactly what's going on and what the problem is but we are sitting here in the dark beating our heads against the wall or in this case the internet forums.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] n11:
My opinion is that GPS works from a technical standpoint but not from a practical standpoint.

I've read every post in this thread, read articles about gps, added GPS Status, and I've run many tests including inside, outside, in the car, wifi on, wifi off, airplane mode, etc. The gps definitely works but only under optimal conditions, ie; outside. When I turned off wifi, put the unit in airplane mode and restarted I was able to take the unit outside and quickly get a fix on 7 or 8 out of 11 or 12 sats. When I walked inside everything was lost immediately. When I tried using navigation in the car it was basically a non starter. It did get a fix but lost it as soon as I started to move.

So, as others have said it appears there is some deficiency that is keeping the TF201 from getting a strong signal...but...technically, it does work. I plan to return mine to GameStop while I can. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread...good stuff!
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] morphiend:
what if everyone posted about it on the asus facebook page? they love issuing press stuff on there right? if all of us did it it would garner negative attention right and someone worthwhile would eventually see it?? seems more productive than the random calls to asus customer service which probably get dismissed by the level one techs immediately.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
He's saying if they don't acknowledge or do something about it soon return them so we are not screwed... I do agree with you about not getting anywhere calling India that's why someone needs to talk to a US call center and be escalated to engineering or the highest level of tech support to see if someone will at least acknowledge there's a real issue here but I am nearly 100% certain they were well aware of it before they even shipped any units.

---------- Post added at 05:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 AM ----------

This is exactly what mine did good post here this sums it up pretty well.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Don't assume this. With all the testing by Samsung and Google on the Galaxy Nexus no one tested interference on the 2G 900MHz frequency because it's not used a lot. They had to do a hotfix and temporarily suspend sales. Asus may not have tested the GPS acting on its own thoroughly or tested it after it had already locked with Wi-Fi and called it good. Or worse, this was the best they could do and that's why India keeps telling people to "turn on Wi-Fi."

BTW, I do have a life. I've been on a conference call with Sydney for hours and am bored out of my mind.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
One more thought we have sat here and talked about getting satallite fix's and locks and it technically works blah blah blah but has anyone bothered to test what a GPS is for in the first place by punching in an address getting in their car and trying to go from point A to point B? I am sure the results will be terrible but I will test mine tomorrow.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] fuzzer:
ASUS FB page...

http://www.facebook.com/#!/ASUS
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] e.mote:
Any DYI'er here feel up to cracking open the case, and check on type and placement of GPS (and wifi) antenna? Probably not recommended if you don't have prior experience in opening up CE toys.

As a point of comparison, here's the iPad 3G's GPS antenna

Note the black plastic window where the GPS antenna is located. No metal.

Prime vs Galaxy Nexus GPS (outdoor test; no good indoor) (sorry if this was posted already, I didn't plow through the whole thread)

[YOUTUBE]V2fp4edWbhc[/YOUTUBE]

As another point of reference, the OG Transformer GPS lock test (outdoor)

[YOUTUBE]lJnNKqR-Ie8[/YOUTUBE]
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RussianMenace:
I did (tried) this yesterday. Resulted in almost an hour of looking at a static map while it tried to "search for GPS".
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BongoBong:
so my gps hasnt worked even with wifi on but I think the problem there is that my wifi network seems to place me in san antonia despite living in calgary.

So how do I delete the assisted data since i figure im getting bad info because my unt thinks im in san antonio? I have gps essentials and gps status already.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] n11:
Yes...as I said just a few posts up. I tried it and it was a disaster...worthless.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
Haha you have me rofl with this :-)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I know you're all proud owners and fans, but someone (I won't) may want to send some of the more concrete stuff we found in the last couple of pages to Engadget and SlashGear. Alude to it being the metal casing and it becomes a sexy story. It'll tarnish the Prime a bit but probably get some action from Asus.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
Do we think we are reaching a final conclusion here that this is simply a case of a bad design/placement of the GPS antenna inside of a all metal case? At this point its starting to make the most sense to me when I just took my girlfriends new Samsung galaxy 10.1 outside to test it locked within seconds and its case is mostly plastic.

EDIT: This got me thinking what if I go out to my car sit my TomTom GPS on the dash and hold my prime directly over the antenna and sure enough it lost its GPS signal.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] nxp3:
I just did this on their facebook page and was just going to come back in here and post the same thoughts.

We all need to do this so we're heard. Not only that, we need to get the tech blogs posting this problem as well so asus will come out with a statement. I submitted something to engadget the first day I got the tablet and testing the GPS, back then there was only 4 out of 6 people with GPS problem and now 60% of the people with GPS issue? That's more than half!

I guess the XDA people don't even come in the forum or they may investigate the issue?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Send them a follow-up and ask them to test their unit after a cold boot with Wi-Fi off from inside their offices. And that users testing their own units seem to feel that without a previous lock or aGPS the Prime can only get a signal in near perfect conditions. Add that someone posted a comparison to the G-Tab and there was no comparison. That ought to intrigue them. And reference the last couple of pages of this thread.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] theoner1:
Yes i do exactly that on both of the prime i have. First one would not lock at all, second one took a long time to lock and shortly after while driving it just disconnect itself and just keep searching. My xoom stay connected and lock within seconds.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
If its the metal casing like I suspect that's the culprit our only options are going to be deal with it or return it. I am pretty sure the only reason some people think theirs work is simply because they technically got a GPS lock and or were using it with WiFi assist I highly doubt they punched a address and actually went from point A to B keeping a steady lock.

EDIT: While we are at it this also explains the weaker WiFi signal to our typical in home every day routers. I work on computers for a living and now that I think about it I don't ever recall any perticular Wifi adapters being that much weaker then another just signal loss from materials between walls etc....

Also if you think about it if ASUS actually replaced anything during the so called delay it would have been much more then a couple days I think what happened is they built all the units didn't realize till after that the design severily hampered WiFi and GPS signal strengths and said screw it we have no choice now we are just going to ship these puppys out we have moneys to be made! I know one thing ASUS spit in everyone's face with this one I am spitting back and returning mine and never buying an ASUS product again they just tarnished their brand for me.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
That would be a good news/bad news thing. It wouldn't be hard to redesign the back cover to include some plastics along with the metal for better reception. The bad news is getting them to admit the problem and pay to modify all totally metal units sold is a tough one for them to swallow ego wise and financially. First step is getting them to admit there's even a problem. ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] jdbaker82:
I am donating my Prime to Mythbusters "can a metal casing destroy a WiFi and GPS signal"

Oh wait I already know the result "CONFIRMED" GG ASUS welcome aboard the fail boat.

---------- Post added at 06:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 AM ----------

The simple answer was literally right in front of us the entire time ladies and gents. I know some of this stuff here is probably Captain Obvious but hey Apple figured this out when they built a plastic window for their GPS in the I pad but I think the ASUS R&D department is a little behind.

Hi Bill,

GPS signals are quite weak, and they can be blocked quite effectively by the roof and walls of a building. The main thing is that it works in your truck.

Generally speaking, metal is a very good material that blocks RF signals. You may use a plastic enclosure, if you want to, for your BU-353. But even a thin aluminum foil placed over it would prevent it completely from working.

The BU-353 is weatherproof, so you may not need to place it in any enclosure. Many of us have used this unit on the roof of our vehicles 24/7/365, in all weather conditions with no issues for years.

Other than the physical materials that block RF signals, there are other environmental factors to keep in mind.

Driving among tall skyscrapers may not allow for good reception. The weak GPS signals don't reach your antenna directly, but they may bounce off of the buildings first. That may degrade the reception.

Even just driving under a tree cover, especially when the leaves are wet, may have adverse effect on the GPS signals received by a GPS receiver.

GPS receivers may be affected by interference from electronic devices, if placed too close. This is quite often the case with the USG GPS sticks. People like to stick them directly into USB ports of their laptops, because that's how these units are advertised in many cases. However, the RF interference coming from many (most?) computers is just way too strong, and it often prevents such a GPS receiver from working. If the included USB extension cable is used, these receivers work just fine.

Some cars have tinted windows with metallic content that blocks GPS signals. Users of such cars may find a small area without tint right behind the rear view mirror. If that doesn't work, a unit such as your BU-353, or a GM-2, or some other unit that has a magnetic base, can be placed on the outside of the vehicle for better reception.

Occasionally some users of USB GPS receivers find that if a very long USB extension cable is used, their USB GPS receiver no longer works. USB GPS receivers are sensitive to the voltage they receive via USB. If the voltage is bellow certain level, they fail to work properly. If a long USB extension is required, a powered USB hub may help.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] techjunkie9194:
Just received my Prime today. After a VERY long charging of 8 hours I downloaded GPS Test and GPS Essentials. After connecting to WiFi I took the Prime outside. I loaded GPS Test and within about 30 seconds started to see satellites and locked on to 4 and then 5 and then 9 in under two minutes. I then turned off my WiFi and tried it again with the same results. Next I loaded GPS Essentials and it had a similar result. Don't know if this will continue but it seemed good for a first try.

My WiFi also seems to be pretty good. Xirrus Wi-Fi Inspector on my Win7 laptop shows a signal of -54dBm one floor below my router. My Prime has a little fluctuation between -56dBm and -59dBm. I can live with it.

Very pleased with the performance of my prime so far! :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] xero187:
At first I was very impressed with the evolution of the transformer.

Now I'm just disappointed.

Wifi is definitely poorly received

My GPS is dead as a door nail. (spent hours reading threads and used all sorts of grew and paid GPS apps)

How the heck could they screw up so freaking badly is beyond my understanding!

This lovely shiny new turd is going back to Gamestop!

Back to my OG transformer I suppose...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] SHRED:
My GPS worked no problem, 12 of 15 satellites locked outdoor, no WIFI on.

Shame for the 2 big dead/faulty pixels! Returning it cos of that.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] theoner1:
lol, what is it with these dead pixel on the prime. both of the one i got have dead pixel, first one have 7, second just a couple of tiny ones, tolerable. haven't own anything Asus since my Asus rampage formula motherboard, but damn this is some serious issue by Asus.