yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] n11:
I submitted this comment to Asus:

The TF201 GPS is working technically but is almost useless from a practical standpoint. You can't get in your car, tether to a cell phone, use Google navigation, and expect the GPS in the TF201 to get you to your destination because the TF201 won't hold a lock on satellites. The TF201 is advertised as having GPS...from a practical standpoint it does NOT have GPS. I realize that if I'm standing in an open field and want to know where I am then the TF201 will assist me (if I hold the screen up like I'm worshiping the GPS sats).

Please provide a solution so there is real GPS (firmware, replacement plastic back, etc.). Since I bought this intending to use GPS (I need it for my work life) and effectively there isn't GPS I'd like either a solution or authorization for a full refund.

Thanks,
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] doeboy711:
Mines only a 13 page thread, I have mine set to like 40 or 50 posts per page.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
It's not on the German, Taiwan or UK sites either. I didn't look further but it may not be on any of the local market sites. I'm coming in late. Was it on the U.S. site (vs. the Global site) and removed?

If I had to venture a guess, after paying Broadcom for the chip and installing it, they've thrown in the towel over reception issues. Rather than try to fix it (which I'd imagine would require a back cover redesign) they're just going to dumb down the specs. That's assuming the sensor being omitted from local market site specs isn't just a simple editorial error.

I can see all the folks back in Taiwan running around saying "See, I told you it wouldn't work!" ;)

P.S. - @lock-n-load - the last time I was here yours seemed to be working. What changed?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] ToneyEricsson:
Does that app called FasterFix from the market help at all with the GPS issue?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Not if it's reception related...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] n11:
It will help for those locations where you can get a fix. Like many other ways it basically give the gps a hint as to your location. That allows for a quicker fix. It won't help if your TF201 has trouble holding a fix in a moving car.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Premium gas makes your car run better. It won't do much if you're running on four out of eight cylinders.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] ToneyEricsson:
I bet the metal casing doesn't help if it is reception related what a pain. The Desire HD had this whole GPS locking problem when it came out but that FasterFix app did fix it to a pretty much instant GPS lock.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
thanks, I just finished detailing all my issues and concerns about what's been going on with mines and other people's devices. I have a good feeling I will hear back from them soon as my comment really hit everything on the nail. Asus will compensate me n others for misleading/false advertisement of GPS feature and less than stellar wifi performance(although my wifi works fine..alot of others showing weaker signals).

edit: I just got a confirmation email from Asus saying they got my message and is being processed. gave me a comment ID and a link to go to check status of it.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] n11:
For those who are just joining this thread here is a way to test your GPS. Most folk are finding that the GPS does work from a technical standpoint but is not useful in a practical way like driving in your car. This test should prove that your GPS DOES work under optimal conditions. Then...if you test further you should see where the challenges are. The steps refer to GPS Status which is a very useful free progam that is available in the Android Market.

I would start with these steps:

GPS off

Wifi off

Airplane mode

In GPS Status, menu, tools, manage A-GPS state, push reset

Turn off and restart the Transformer Prime

Open GPS status and test both indoors and outdoors

Open Google Navigation, set a destination and drive there (or next step)

or - drive with GPS Status open to see how it holds sats
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
JDBarker82 posted something (before he was banned) not related to the Prime but to GPS' in general that pretty much described aluminum as kryptonite to a GPS. Devices typically can get a signal from the front and the back, the back being clearer because, when it's plastic, there's less interference than going through the circuitry and LCD panel on the front side. It would seem the Prime's signal is blocked from the back and sketchy from the front. In the HTC Sensation (which has a semi-aluminum back) they actually attached antennas to the back itself it in order to improve reception. Now we know why they went to the trouble and expense.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] wokka00:
Hmm. Originally answered the poll as yes, it was working, but that was without testing the GPS alone. After shutting off all the other location services, GPS is definitely kaput. TP picks up 0 sats next to a window, Droid X is locking on without too much issue. Running speed test or other location-reliant apps before GPS test doesn't help.

As far as the backplate goes, I don't think it's causing total GPS signal loss. A simple test I did for that was running GPS test on my phone and the TP at the same time in a variety of relative positions. Droid X picked up 5 sats in view whether it was on top of or under the TP, but got a full 12 in view 7 locked on from next to it. If the backplate alone was causing the suspected total lack of signal, I would expect to see the results drop out when it was positioned beneath the TP, but that wasn't the case at all. It did cause some attenuation (signal drop from 30 to 18-20), but it could still see 5 or 6 sats, and kept the location lock on the phone.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] cjbailey75:
I work in navigation and though it works it's weak due to the Faraday cage.

The reception of external radio signals, a form of electromagnetic radiation, through an antenna within a cage can be greatly attenuated or even completely blocked by the cage itself.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] skeptikal:
Where is this GPS status u speak of? Sorry if that's a dumb question...lol.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dpwaters72:
Thanks. Needed to hear that as I patiently wait until 1/4/12.......
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
its an app on the market
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
thanks.good info.

so Newport news aka Bad News, VA? lol. I'm originally from Hampton Roads area myself. Norfolk. ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
The header of your screen shot shows "USA." What it there and then removed? If so, assuming it's intentionally been removed from all local market sites, Asus really has some 'splainin to do. I'm sure like every manufacturer they have a "specifications subject to change" clause in their TOU. But still, this is a device their CEO says he expects to sell millions of in 2012 and just taking the feature away from early adopters and loyalists isn't the way to do that. Do any of the printed materials (or the box) that come with the Prime show a GPS sensor as an included feature?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
nope nothing about GPS on box or papers already looked
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] aldrouin:
It's an app you can get off the Market, no question is dumb, only the answers can be ;P (Even though a repetitive question could be annoying)

And that was already answered... *DELETE PLEASE*
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I'm usually the last one to suggest lawyering up. But between the reference to a GPS sensor in Asus' online marketing materials and evidence of it being installed via the tears downs, they clearly intended to provide GPS (not aGPS) as a feature when people made their initial purchases. If whatever their response is doesn't seem sufficient to you guys, this wouldn't be hard to turn in to a class action.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
well thats not true in the email asus said there is GPS in the device it just is being blocked off by the metal unibody and to aid this use the aGPS so i dont think we would win a lawsuit to be honest
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
it was actually a screenshot from Aldrouin. I quoted him. but yes, Asus is now starting to remove the GPS spec from being listed on their sites. I already contacted them through escalation service and let them know my gripes and concerns. also that we already know they have begun taking down the GPS spec and we have screenshots or original spec being up there. I have a feeling we will be hearing something from Asus very soon. they really dropped the ball on this one. I really wish the initial major reviewers would've tested GPS out in the beginning just like wifi. then issue would've mode then likely been addressed earlier. might have delayed our shipment even further but still. if it would've resulted in a more complete product, I would've waited. I also told them how much I love this device and don't want these issues to taint that image. its just not accecptable to pay this much for a device and not have everything work properly or as advertised to us. THAT Asus needs to address me n others on all major concerns.

it was alot more detailed than that but that's what'll basically said. I forgot to ask when will ICS be released..damn! lol
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
The question that would be asked is "based on what you knew and expected prior to your purchase, is the GPS function of the Prime performing to a reasonable standard?" Reasonable standard would be a competitive one based on the performance of other manufacturers tablets (including the TF1). Clearly it's not. This will be further reinforced if they change their marketing materials to only say "aGPS." Anyone who purchases after that point would be able to answer the question I posed as "yes." All that purchased before that have been misled and/or harmed. I'm not saying you guys should do it, but you do have some leverage.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mgawelek:
Internal part (sorry cannot post links)

www wirelessgoodness com/2011/11/02/asus-transformer-prime-gets-torn-down-kal-el-pictured/
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
i think Asus is going to fix this and give us something in return maybe nothing big but something at least they are a good company with good customer service
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
like I said before, if Asus send me a free keyboard dock n possibly a 32 or 64gb memory card, I'd forget all about this n be all smiles. lmal :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] dpwaters72:
I feel the same way. My hopes is a fix......
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
the fix wont be easy we will have to send in our tablets to get them fixed but im sure asus will throw in a free keyboard dock or some sd cards or maybe something of that nature
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] mgawelek:
Maybe they all got paid :) so they could not put bad reviews in....
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
id be happy with a 64gb sd card that gives me so much more room although a keyboard dock would be awesome
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I'm guessing the fix is to change the specs to "aGPS." Since they've already included the best GPS chip available on the circuit board, the only fix that I could see would be a redesign of the back cover. It's not a big deal going forward but recalling and replacing the Prime's already sold would cost them millions, be a PR nightmare, and dent their earnings because the Prime's a low margin device.

The HP TouchPad was aGPS only and it still sold (nobody wanted it but it wasn't because of its GPS). Asus may just be willing to lose people that want full GPS and are betting that loss is smaller than the cost of fixing the Prime. If I were them I'd compensate existing purchasers, change the specs to reflect aGPS, and release a Prime II in Q2 with more competitive features and a different back cover. But I wouldn't have gotten myself in to this position in the first place. ;)
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
dont get me wrong this is still the best tablet around and will be until the the end of 2012 no doubt about that i dont even care about GPS ill never use it to be honest

but i think what asus is going to do is try to optimize it the best they possibly can in the software and apologize to us. Which is fine to me as long as they realize they made a mistake and fix it in the next release of the transformer 3
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RussianMenace:
I understand everyone is displeased with the product, but i don't think Asus is going to give anyone a free dock. Nor should they. If you don't like the product or if it was not as advertised, take it back and problem is solved. They shouldn't have to give you $150 piece of hardware for "ruining your Christmas" or kicking your dog or whatever. Too much self entitlement.

But that's just my two cents...from some old guy, take it as you wil. :p
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
i agree completely with you but there is always room for wishful thinking.

they are just going to issue an apology tell us they will do all they can to make it better and optimize it and thats going to be the end of that.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Diamondback:
AGPS is still GPS, it uses assistance data

additionally

.

This won't help ASUS at all. Even AGPS need to receive proper GPS signals.

But yes the GPS spec is removed from the German site too. This is getting more and more interesting :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tdp252:
I don't think you fully comprehend the seriousness of this problem for some. This isn't a matter of calling it AGPS vs. GPS for some of us. My partner and I both received Primes and we cannot get a single satellite to lock even outside on a clear day on either unit.

If you want Wifi positioning all is well. But this is not GPS, not even AGPS.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
the problem is not like life threatening if you dont like it just return it and wait for a different tablet you have to deal with what you have
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Mistar Muffin:
Please be aware that you have your terms incorrect. aGPS uses additional positioning data to (in many cases) significantly speed up the time to initial lock. I remember when I had a Garmin standalone GPS, it could take several minutes to get a lock from a cold start. The reason your phone is nearly instant is because of aGPS. Devices without GPS like the Touchpad and Nook are relegated to using databases of Wifi AP MAC addresses and the like to sorta kinda guesstimate your location based on which AP's it can see.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RussianMenace:
Indeed there is. :D
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I think you're missing the point. If Asus marketed the Prime as aGPS this entire thread wouldn't even exist. For people who felt full GPS was important that could have made an educated decision. That obviously didn't happen. Whether it's Asus or anyone else, you have a responsibility to remedy a situation where you misled customers (intentionally or accidentally). They'd be nuts to voluntarily offer something if in fact they do dumb down the specs rather the deliver a working full GPS solution to people that have already purchased.

---------- Post added at 09:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 AM ----------

What I'm calling aGPS is probably better described as Wi-Fi geo-location. But if the Prime's not able to use its expensive and elegant Broadcom GPS chip isn't that all it's doing anyway?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] unknown_owner:
Companies will throw services at you before hardware. So expect maybe 1-2 yrs free cloud storage or a larger capacity cloud storage. I worked for a company and we extended tech support for 1-2 months as sorry gifts.

Sent from my Photon
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] GordonTGopher:
Err A-GPS (or Assisted GPS in full) still requires a working GPS, all the "A" does is to allow access to almanac and ephemeris data, that is effectively cached on an assistance server, thereby reducing the 12+mins normally taken at cold start to d/l this data from the GPS bird and thereby reducing TTFF (time to first fix). From there the GPS takes over.

Although mainly based on A-GPS in mobiles this article may be of some interest to those being forced to learn more about GPS than they ever thought necessary! http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/01/assisted-gps.ars/1

Gordon
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
sent them an email asking for a response for my blog site and going to see what happens, i will keep all updated
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RussianMenace:
No, I believe you are missing my point. It was marketed having aGps. And it seems to work or some and not for others. Now, most if not all of those with issues are well within their return period and if they feel wronged they can, and should, return the product. Not hope for free scraps from Asus to keep using their product.

Again, this is only my personal opinion.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] demandarin:
that comment was made in more of a joking manner but not everyone can return devices for full refund unless Asus authorizes it. like Gamestop orders. their policy states that any new open box device can "Only" be "Exchanged" for another one. Gamestop has 30 regular warranty to switch device if we want. if it was Unopened, then we could return for a refund. once Gamestop 30 days runs out, then we can fall back on Asus 1yr. warranty.

I don't plan on returning my device but I'm just saying..lol

does this mean, as far as GPS issue goes, its pointless to try to send unit in to be fixed since there is nothing they can do to make signal/strength even better/stronger? especially since now they back pedaling and taking down the GPS being listed as a spec.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] tylermaciaszek:
dont waste your time sending it until they come out with a fix
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] GCurry:
Remedies

So, my tablet has a completely non-functional GPS, won't lock, with or without internet, inside or out, in places where my wife's Samsung tab gets a lock in 5 seconds.

No doubt Asus taking a brand hit here. It has with me. I am disappointed that they got so caught up apparently in the thin-and-pretty wars with Apple et al that they designed their computer to live in a Faraday cage. Couldn't believe it when I ordered it, so went ahead.

At this point, the Samsung Tab 10.1 Costco is selling next for $430 is looking comparable to my TFP, because of the shielding issue. It's GPS works great. It'll get ICS soon. It seems more QA'd.

Remedies (my declining order of preference):

1. Cash refund.

2. Retrofit a plastic case on my unit, or replace mine. Frankly I don't care if the tablet is thin-and-pretty. Strong, yes. No charge to me, of course.

3. Refund $200, for loss of function and general hassle.

4. Exchange for replacement unit where GPS (sort of) works

As of now, I have RMA # for Best Buy. Waiting a few days to see how it pans out.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] RussianMenace:
Well we had the one guy send one in, just haven't heard anything back lately.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] Mistar Muffin:
Look, sorry to be a stickler but it's not "better described as". They are two different things completely. I see this common misconception quite a bit and you're just helping spread it to people that don't know any better. If the Prime's GPS really is useless, ASUS should change all marketing material to reflect as WiFi geo location.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
I'd say in my career I've given back at least $50MM in make-goods for various product and service problems companies I've worked for created. Nobody made me. If you hope to keep customers, what you do when facing a problem matters more than what you do when things are humming along smoothly. That why companies voluntarily offer make-goods and people on the wrong end of an issue shouldn't have to beg for scraps.

On a scale of 1-10, ten being most severe, I'd rate this a 6 or 7; primarily because it was self-inflicted. Asus chose the design that ended up causing the problem and should have known that before the first Prime was sold. Nobody forced them to buck convention and use a solid aluminum back cover. People who bought the Prime aren't wrong in expecting it to perform at least as well as the TF1 in areas like GPS and Wi-Fi.

A couple of people mentioned Asus' excellent customer service. This will be a far better test then speedy RMA’s and frequent s/w updates because this will cost them the big bucks.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] whiskaz77:
I need to do a real world test with the GPS on my Prime, but running home at lunch, sticking the thing in airplane mode and going outside I managed to get 12 sats and 7 locks (1 or 2 would drop off and come back, etc). I hopped in my car and put the thing on my dash and waited for them to drop but they didn't.

I suppose the next step will be going for a drive with it.

FWIW, GPS didn't seem to be working at all for me and then I shut the thing off. Held the power and volume down buttons for 10 seconds until it started the boot process and voila...

ETA: Folks keep blaming the case but I've yet to see hard evidence of it being a problem (even if logic and science say so). I'd like to hear how the thing functions with the case off...if that is in fact the real issue (in which case, why some folks can get locks and others can't at all seems odd). It's sort of like saying ICS is going to fix everything, ya know ;) Speculation to a point...
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
Just turned off wifi, and google location services, went outside and within 2 minutes picked up 8 sats and all 8 were in use. So it's gotta be a problem with some, luckily mine seems to be working fine.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] BarryH_GEG:
Once the chip locks, either on its own or with help from Wi-Fi, it memorizes the postion of the satellites. That's why it struggles from a cold boot and can't keep up when the device is moved or moving.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] n11:
I've run every test I could think of (see my previous post for a test protocol). The most interesting was getting in my car and running GPS Status while stopped. When I got a good fix I started driving and the fix disappeared. Each time I stopped at a light I would start to get sat fixes again. The fixes would start to disappear each time I started driving. The results are now very predictable...fix outside, no fix inside, or when in a moving car.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] silverwings2008:
No GPS on my prime. Only wifi gps location. Loaded fasterfix and interestingly the server is listed as TextView. It should be something like uk.pool.ntp.org

This server info basically gives the onboard gps receiver a heads up as to where the satellites should be, based on time, day and almanac etc.

No way of changing it without rooting. Anyone rooted yet who wants to try this possible solution?
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] czerdrill:
Ah ok, yeah I haven't tested it by navigating or anything, just was reporting that there's no issue getting a lock for me. It's not a dealbreaker for me because I don't plan on using this in my car.
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] alexrud:
I just took a drive with my TFP and my android-powered Evo 3D, both with GPS enabled, wifi off and the cellular radio turned off on the Evo. I had both of them running Google maps and went for a spin around the block. The Evo 3D picked up my GPS location immediately and showed me my location the entire time, while the TFP said I was sitting in the driveway the entire trip :confused:

EDIT: The TFP did have a satellite lock on 6-7 satellites when I left the house but didn't check while driving. Was afraid i'd get into an accident - is it illegal in NYS to tablet navigate while driving? lol
[Asus  Eee Pad Transformer Prime] meagher:
why can't they make an external antennae that plugs into the data port?