yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Off-topic] vdub12:
The problem is people that use miss information about Apple just feed the evil machine. If people continue to allow that company to grow eventually they will have litigated all the competition away.

Android has already won the mobile market. They hold 60% to Apples 30% but Apple planes to use patents to win the war. Apple does not deserve to win using evil tactics. Every single person that buys an Apple product is feeding the machine.

So yes it does mater. Without competition you have no innovation. Apple wants to be the only one on the market. Not the top, but the ONLY. When you allow Apple to call the shots you get a brick wall of innovation. Apple is not the company you want leading because they will hold technology back to make higher profits.

They are still trying to do this with there iphone even though they are not on top. That's why there hardware is over a year older then the competition. The iphone 4s is not much better then my Inspire 4g which is over a year old.
[Off-topic] orangekid:
Actually the iPhone 4s out-benchmarks every Android device except the Galaxy Nexus. The dual-core A5 processor seems to be more efficient than dual-core snapdragon because it does the same thing in a lower clock speed and uses less battery. The Resolution also kills the Inspire 4G. The camera is revolutionary and is the best of any cell phone ever made.

I actually prefer Android and also hate Apple trying to monopolize the phone industry with bull**** patent wars, but I'm not sure where you're getting this "hardware is over a year older than the competition" from.
[Off-topic] masondoctorjt:
It doesn't matter what others prefer. I you know something is better, but popularity of an inferior product tricks people into thinking its better, it is really dishonest not to try to tell that person that they are being duped. Why would you want to see your loved one wasting money on junk, when they truly could have something state of the art and quality mad for the same price or maybe just a little more? I grew up watching people spend tons of money on Bose when I knew a set of JBL's would totally blow them away for the same money or even less. But Bose always advertized and got the masses thinking they were good. Like in the bose store when they would have sub-woofers hidden making people think all that base was coming out of those tiny speakers. It's a travesty.

Once again Apple advertizing gets to even an Android fan. Just because the Apple commercial says it the best, doesn't make it so. Why is the camera revolutionary when it has no clear advantage over a few other Android phones. If you read all the critics reviews and customer ratings, The iphone 4s sometimes wins, but most of the time comes in anywhere from 2nd - 4th. While it's camera is very good... It is in no way revolutionary. Nothing Apple has ever done has been revolutionary except how they have won over the masses with product that are not compatible, and really not as good as many of the competitors. That truly is revolutionary. My sister-n-law was just bragging about how her new ipod has an fm tuner, and since that is all she's ever owned, she has no idea that mp3 players have had that for 10 years or more, and not only that, but my 6 year old sansa, as well as my newer one, can record fm.
[Off-topic] MartyLK:
That's just an excuse for continuing to harass people because they don't do what you think they should.

If you don't want someone to be swindled or taken for a ride on inferior stuff, you politely request to explain to them the situation. If they agree to listen, you tell them once and leave it be. If they seem stubborn and determined, leave it alone and let them have their way. Don't keep harping on people because they won't acknowledge your higher intellect.

It's simple, people. Do to others as you would have them do to you. If you don't want to be treated in this manner, consider that neither does anyone else. If people love Apple and you see Apple as the antichrist, so be it. Enough has already been said about how bad Apple is. Stop harping because others disagree with you.
[Off-topic] slapshot30:
^ Um... This is a phone forum, not a lesson on humanity. If we did what you just said, we wouldn't be on the general section arguing over this stuff. If you actually practiced what you preached, you wouldn't frequent this section and constantly say the things you do.
[Off-topic] hungry81:
OK Here for some strange reason I partially agree with Marty. I do think you should attempt to inform people, But if people don't wan to listen (They have a different reason, They have a better or more educated opinion or they just don't care about your reason/s) then unless life or property is in danger you need to let them make their own mistakes/well judged and informed decision. However that dosent mean you cant do your duty and try to let them know your opinion if it is valid and they are willing to listen. This being a forum you are entitled to state your opinion as long as it is not flame or troll bait.

That said, Apple is a terrible terrible company, that makes sub par products and markets them as gods gifts to mankind. Apple in its present state, sucks.

Im going to bed

Goodnight.

(post edit I also agree with slapshot above)
[Off-topic] Gusar321:
Amen.

(SCNR :))
[Off-topic] MartyLK:
Exactly. A person should be able to express their like or dislike for anything without being attacked.

I like Apple and believe they make excellent and high-quality, high-tech products.
[Off-topic] z33dev33l:
Opposite of google, mediocre hardware, good software.
[Off-topic] Kailkti:
So is this what this thread has turned to? A simple state your opinion and accept the others? :O

Well that's boring. xD It was so interesting to read too. Where's the debate?

Well might as well state what I think. Apple sucks for trying to ban other devices. It is anti competitive. But it is also competitive in a way as it will force manufacturers to actually think, if they are banned,, instead of playing apple's game where we all follow apple.
[Off-topic] MartyLK:
The debate is still here and doesn't need to leave. What needs to leave are the insults. People label "troll" this and "fanboy" that when they state an appreciation for something others don't like. People try to berate and antagonize and cause chaos when their will isn't accepted.

There is no issue with explaining why a person likes or dislikes something. Example:

I currently dislike ICS. I also currently like Apple. Now for someone to explain why they believe ICS should be liked and why Apple should be hated is proper dialog and debate. To call a person a troll or fanboy or to berate them and harass them because they say this stuff is not proper dialog or debate.
[Off-topic] ishy64:
What do you expect...It's Apple!
[Off-topic] orangekid:
Have you used the camera on the 4s?
[Off-topic] vdub12:
Maybe because they are using the legal system to hinder innovation. They are enjoying the success of OpenSource by using BSD but on the same hand attacking another OpenSource project because they have patents that should have never been approved in the first place.

The problem isn't just the patent system. Its also a mater of right from wrong. Apple is a downright criminal company that’s trying to rob us of choice and in the same breath feels they should be the only one able to benefit from it.
[Off-topic] Jesushaxyou:
Apple is continually patenting things that they haven't invented. Apple as a company is not very innovative. Apple as a label is very well marketed and received well by others.

That is Steve Jobs' fault. He was no innovator. He was no inventor. He was nothing other than a man with a bull whip. He was a good boss; as in he was good at making people work to their limits. He basically taught Apple how to jump on the opportunity of obtaining a patent when no one else has.

Patent laws don't necessarily say that the one patenting needs to have invented it. They simply state that they need to be explained in a practical manor or at least how they could be used in a practical manor.

All of the OEM's have all the technology. They have the researchers. It's not their fault that Apple dicks them when they don't patent their innovations for the sole intention of freedom of use.

That said, Apple are a bunch of douche bags who can't create for themselves. They're basically vultures. Unless someone wises up and patents **** before apple does nothing is going to change. It's simple.

Now stfu and watch the Apple v.s. the world lawsuits unfurl.
[Off-topic] maxximuscool:
Only time will tell the end result of Apple..
[Off-topic] CallMeVentus:
Yes . I don't like it .

The iPhone 4 wasn't that bad though .

At least I could take more pictures than the 4S .

The 4S drained like how forest fires spread .
[Off-topic] MartyLK:
Apple is supposedly working on a fix for that in an upcoming software update. Hopefully it will put the iPhone 4S back to iPhone 4 BL levels.
[Off-topic] masondoctorjt:
yeah, and have decided that no phone will ever replace my nikon dslr:)
[Off-topic] MartyLK:
The same goes for my Canon PowerShot. No matter how good a smartphone cam is, it can't match a real camera.
[Off-topic] slapshot30:
Psh. Wanna take a bet? Don't ever doubt future tech, especially at the rate its going today.
[Off-topic] dfwcomputer:
Nothing surprises me with apple :(
[Off-topic] LooieENG:
give it a few months, these cameras will be running Android and have the ability to make video phone calls and text your pics to people/post to facebook ;)
[Off-topic] :
Unfortunately this is the actions of a company when they know they have competition, could lose sales etc etc, if they continue theyll end up failing
[Off-topic] Segnale007:
US court just granted Apple for the multitouch patent

Here's another fresh disappointing news that will encourage Apple to sue more manufactures..

Yesterday Apple has just been granted of another patent for an additional thing that of course they didn't invent, and that might put in trouble every phone manufactures out there. Regardless of whoever did invent the multitouch technology, its a shame that US grant patents for something necessary for the usage of a smartphone today, something that every devices now uses and will need to use. Its like patenting the wheel or the engine. How stupid is that??

Thats really disappointing. Not only people keep feeding Apple lawyers by buying their products, but also the US court helps them a lot by granting them of these insane patents.

Unbelievable..
[Off-topic] dragon135:
Why don't apple use ios, android or even windows for their phones? It will be a happy ending for all :D
[Off-topic] Mr. Holmes:
I don't think I understand what you mean. Apple already uses iOS. That's why there's an "I" in front of the "OS." =p
[Off-topic] Archer:
Watson : Holmes, why are you spreading lemon juice on my butt cheeks?

Mr. Holmes : Lemon entry my dear Watson. Lemon entry.
[Off-topic] in50mn14c:
This is the definition of irony. Apple throws a fit about patents, when they stole the entire first

apple OS from Bill Gates on the PC platform.

They then cried foul when Win95 came out using design elements that they had stolen and rushed to market to claim they were 'created' by apple.

The reality is the patent market is causing stagnation. Rather than saying "Great idea, let's improve it. " it's "great idea... let's sue anyone who has a similar idea. "

Sent from my Space/Time Continuum
[Off-topic] MilkyJoePD:
Does it cost anything to patent something? I might patent every thing I can think of that isn't already patented.
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
I thought apple got the basic idea from xerox who didn't patent it so they took it and improved upon it rather than from Microsoft?

Dave
[Off-topic] Gusar321:
But of course. It costs *a lot*. Only big companies can afford it. So they pile up on patents for every absurdity, and when a newcomer enters their market, they use that pile to shut said newcomer down. Which is extremely funny because patents were created to "protect the little guy from getting their idea taken by a big company".
[Off-topic] MilkyJoePD:
Is nobody else patenting stuff that isn't already? I'm all for leaving stuff not patented so other companies can use it, but, blimey, lets stop Apple in their tracks.

To apple: UR@W@
[Off-topic] MartyLK:
Eh...Apple is a minor litigator. There are a boatload of other companies that spend more time in court than Apple. Microsoft is one huge one. Motorola has more patents than a lot of companies and they have the cell technology patent. Apple is a good guy trying to survive in the world.
[Off-topic] Gusar321:
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Holy ****... This is gold...
[Off-topic] MilkyJoePD:
History of inventions/ideas/stuff that already exists is surely documented, why the fook is Apple patenting stuff? Patent a glass phone if you wish, but (expletives) (expletive) off!
[Off-topic] Gusar321:
They can't compete anymore, so they're trying to shut down the competition through litigation.

Then, the Patent Office has a huge backlog, and they get money for every patent granted. So it's in their interest to err on the side of granting patents for obvious stuff, and leave it to the courts to sort things out later. But here comes the problem that fighting even a trivial patent with obvious prior art costs a lot of money. That's how Microsoft's extortion racket works, it's cheaper to pay them a few dollars for every phone than to try and fight their patents.
[Off-topic] MartyLK:
They're doing what any financially and publicly responsible company does, shore up, guard and protect their income. The majority of companies and inventors do it. If they don't, they would be in a world of hurt. It isn't like they get all of their income from advertising like Google does. If Google were strictly in the hardware/software business for its income, they would patent the heck out of their inventions as well. Oh wait, Google does patent its inventions...the search algorithm is closely guarded.
[Off-topic] Gusar321:
Google doesn't own that patent.
[Off-topic] MilkyJoePD:
It's a brilliant idea, but then so is legal theft... That was meant to be a great analogy, but I realised that's exactly what's going on.
[Off-topic] masondoctorjt:
Apple agreed to pay for the Xerox for it, but then never paid.
[Off-topic] MilkyJoePD:
Or is that just a simile?
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
So apple did the dirty on xerox by screwing them over? That and their patenting things others invented seems pretty bad behaviour. Surprised xerox didn't sue.

Dave
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
I agree they are a minor litigator compared to some but surely patenting other peoples work is not the act of a good guy?

It seems like the more market share they lose the more they litigate or patent rather than innovate whereas years ago apple had a reputation more for taking things and really making them better.

Dave
[Off-topic] MartyLK:
Apple is just being very careful. They are cleaning their plate to a polish before committing to other expenditures. They are tying up all loose ends before proceeding with other things in order to maximize their future product's full potentials. There isn't anything illegal about patenting inventions that aren't already patented...if that is what Apple is doing. Just because someone here says that's what they do doesn't mean it's true...with all of the Apple hate going on and most of it wholly undeserved.
​
[Off-topic] MilkyJoePD:
They'd patent breathing if they could.
[Off-topic] MartyLK:
Governments tax breathing. What's the difference?
[Off-topic] MilkyJoePD:
How long til they patent the patenting process?
[Off-topic] masondoctorjt:
That's what I remember reading, but you might want to fact check it as I can't remember the source.
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
Haven't they just patented using apps while in call, and multi touch screens? They didn't invent those. But while there's nothing wrong in it, it seems wholly unfair to patent things you didn't really come up with.

Dave
[Off-topic] MartyLK:
Who says Apple didn't invent multi-touch for capacitive mobile displays?
[Off-topic] X Project X:
lawsuit after lawsuit....what greedy people we have become....
[Off-topic] Kailkti:
it was much worse in previous generations of humanity. :P
[Off-topic] dfwcomputer:
Its pretty simple really......Doesn't matter who did what, It all comes down to market domination......apple had it and are now fighting back for it!
[Off-topic] hungry81:
They Didn't I've posted a reference before.

Heares another reference http://inventors.about.com/od/tstartinventions/a/Touch-Screen.htm

And an easier to follow timeline, One glaring omission in this timeline is the IBM Simon which came out early 90's,

http://www.touchuserinterface.com/2010/02/touch-technology-history.html

And once again the Wikki article I linked to before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch

The only things apple "invented" in the iphone are their proprierty connectors. And the only thing these do differently from standard USB is bring apple more money cause they are not compatible with other phones out there.
[Off-topic] z33dev33l:
Honestly, it's the other companies fault for not guarding their tech.
[Off-topic] hungry81:
The best excuse of any criminal anywhere. Would this be your reaction if you got robbed? Or would you be annoyed?

There are reasons why people Don't patent every single Idea that pops into their head. One of the the most common of these would be COST. That then does not make it alright for someone else to come along and patent their idea that they have been working on possibly for years of their life.

Do you actually think theft is okay as long as you are a big enough bully to be able to get away with it?
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
History records the idea being invented in the 1970's followed by actual working capacitive touch screens by non apple involved people a decade later.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch

Dave
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
So if apple steal other peoples work that's good? Perhaps because some things already exist people don't try patenting them and so apple just got lucky by trying but its still pretty sad to pinch peoples work.

Dave
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
By litigating rather than innovating which is bad for all. I think apple are wrong to patent others work but then surely a patent system allowing that action to succeed is also wrong?

Here in uk they would not get patents where pre existing versions of their patented work exists and was created before their application being made.

Dave
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
I don't think the op's issue is with patenting their own work but specifically that of patenting other peoples.

But you are right to say they are protecting their own income albeit they are doing so in a way that they shouldn't be able to, by legal theft of other peoples work.

I highly doubt its just apple doing it though, I read that in america someone patented such things as pressing a key to scroll text and even allegedly human dna so the main problem is the patent system not just the patenter.

Dave
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
On a lighter note here's a fun video on how apples patent war kills star trek. Its just a laugh but you never know :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAtje5weAU0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It is a humourous way of saying that apples patent wars are not good.

Dave
[Off-topic] Tone_:
In the context used he was insinuating it was an android only forum, if he had said heavily populated you would have a point.

Funny old thing comprehension ;)
[Off-topic] Mr. Holmes:
You cannot change the definition of "populated." I'm completely sorry.
[Off-topic] z33dev33l:
Apple makes smart business decisions, that's all there is to it.
[Off-topic] Gusar321:
I don't know if abusing a broken patent system is something I'd describe as "smart". And even if you could say that, it's not behavior that should be commended.

Apple should be winning based on the merit of their products, not through litigation involving patents on things they didn't even invent or sketches of rectangles and other obvious things not worthy of being called inventions.

Also, Apple is losing share in the phone market as well as in the tablet market, and they're still more or less a niche in the PC market. Is this something that comes from "smart business decisions"? Surely not. They're control freaks. This thirst for control is why they're a niche in the PC market, and history is repeating itself with phones and tablets. So, "smart business decisions", really?

Not to mention their patent lawsuits have so far failed to really make a dent in the rise of Android.
[Off-topic] Archer:
Everyone knows that Apple lies to win court cases.
[Off-topic] z33dev33l:
Can you show me an instance of this?
[Off-topic] lowandbehold:
Sure, the photoshopped pictures of the Galaxy Tab in Europe. Apple edited the picture to make the Galaxy Tab the exact same dimensions of the Ipad 2.
[Off-topic] Gusar321:
Not just the Tab. Phone pics too: http://www.computerworlduk.com/news...gain-in-vicious-case-over-samsung-galaxy-tab/

And here the Tab stuff: http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/107599/apple-levert-onjuist-bewijs-in-zaak-tegen-samsung.html

Also note how on Apple's pics, Samsung's devices always have the app-drawer open, a deliberate tactic to mislead.
[Off-topic] z33dev33l:
I'd never seen this. I don't like apple, but I admire their tact.
[Off-topic] Archer:
You admire lying in attempt to win a court case?
[Off-topic] z33dev33l:
Wow, just read this post and cracked up. If by build quality you are referring to how shiny it is, cool. Otherwise get the lumia 800, it's sleeker AND made out of a material akin to Kevlar. Let me know how your iPhone survives a two story fall onto tile and concrete, then we'll talk build quality.

---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 PM ----------

That'd be how the vast majority of court cases are won. Though lying in court isn't the aspect I was referring to.
[Off-topic] Archer:
That explains a lot. Thanks :)
[Off-topic] Kailkti:
It's all about bribing the government. ;3

$1 gets you a reply
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
Are you saying the Lumia 800 could survive a two story fall onto concrete then? If so I am, genuinely, impressed as that would definitely be tougher than any phones I know of and would indeed be impressive build quality.

Dave
[Off-topic] z33dev33l:
My one year old tested that for me. There is a thread about it somewhere in wp7 general.
[Off-topic] mistermentality:
I am impressed, only negative things I have read about Lumia is that the phone itself has non removable battery, little customisation and poor battery life though the battery life is caused by a software bug they are fixing early next year. So I have to say it seems a decent phone.

Dave
[Off-topic] z33dev33l:
Some phones do have the software bug I'm afraid. As far ascustomization goes, it's not extensive. However, it's speed, fluidity, and stability drastically exceed anything else on the market.
[Off-topic] armyofbear136:
Apple's just working on their scheme for global CES (closed environment system). Once everyone is under their spell = world domination
[Off-topic] Archer:
I do like Windows Phone and was really impressed at how well it ran when I first played with a HD7. My previous experience had been on my HD2 and it was poor to say the least! The things you mention as plus points, however, are not the things I look for in a phone or I would probably be very tempted with the Lumia, being an old-skool Nokia fan.

Customisation is key for me, so I'm staying with Android as it's easily the most customisable platform on the market right now.
[Off-topic] z33dev33l:
Understandable, we all have our own preferences and as I enjoy tinkering I still have android devices. I use WP7 as my daily driver though.