yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Erebus671:
Last I checked physics is also college, but advanced classes are starting earlier and earlier these days. So I don't know, I mean they're teaching Cisco courses in high-school here on Guam.

You have to remember that when the phone is locked it enters deep sleep mode, which like a computer's hibernate mode, is basically a powered off state, but electricity is still flowing to the CPU. The current is still the same(theoretically), but the voltage changes, if I remember correctly from my DC electronics class there is no current drop in a series circuit, and as far as I know, these circuits are series, that or its parallel circuits. I'm a little foggy in the memory department...
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Erebus671:
Unless you completely shut down the phone or computer, the CPU will never completely shut off, the hard drive or in this case the nand memory, will completely shut down. If the CPU shuts down then it cannot send the wake command to the nand.

Oceania? Where is that? :) Guam is in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and the Philippine Sea.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Erebus671:
Ah, its okay, the only problem is there's really not much to do here. That's all...

Some phones have a literal SD Card burrows somewhere in its interiors, the Atrix has nand, just built in memory. That's about it.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Erebus671:
I understand your point, but my point is completely opposite. See below.

If I remember correctly, it was someone who explained deep sleep to me personally. Deep sleep is a state in which the CPU enters a low frequency mode(eg: still running). It does this to keep the system RAM running in order to keep your session running. Just like putting your computer into a sleep state, the CPU enters a low frequency state and informs the power supply to keep a current running to the RAM preventing loss of data, for example if you have an unfinished document open and you put the computer to sleep, if the CPU looses power, there is nothing to tell the power supply to keep supplying a current to ANY component and would therefore shut down completely.

Remember, the CPU controls everything, if not for it sending signals to the components, then the components would simply shut down.

Edit again: does anybody know what the deep sleep frequency is on this phone?
[Atrix 4G Android Development] James62370:
I'm not sure about all that... But I keep wifi, Bluetooth and GPS always on and my phone still goes into deep sleep.

When I tried the cm9 Roms, there appears to still be a problem with Bluetooth if active causes the phone not to be able to go into deep sleep mode.

This has been my experience.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Erebus671:
Good job pointing that out, my bad, I'll remove that from my original post. :) I didn't really read it. :o

I may not be "professional" according to society's standards, but I am a computer technician and though I am still going to classes, I do know enough. :)

You are wrong, 122 milihertz(mHz) is not way too much, but 122 "M"egahertz(MHz) is, but I know what you actually meant. That being said, since I do know what you meant, you are right, 122MHz is a bit much. I did think it a bit odd... So I am glad you pointed that out, but the fact of the matter is, deep sleep is not a powered down state, it is like I said before, a state of low voltage.

---------- Post added at 02:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 AM ----------

Another example that deep sleep is not a powered down state. The GPS, wifi and Bluetooth would not remain on, nor would you stay connected to any wireless networks or receive sync updates during deep sleep mode. Also, if the CPU was completely shut down, the phone would never ring during a call, nor would you receive notifications.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] James62370:
My phone still receives calls and I use Google voice for text messages. I'm not sure what mode it's in, but I'm always notified of my messages. CPU spy does show my phone using deep sleep.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Erebus671:
As I said before, the CPU is merely running in a low frequency mode allowing it to continue to receive signals from the radios(basebands) and push notifications from the apps. Like I said before, if the CPU were to be completely powered down, it could not receive, translate and forward signals from one component to another, you phone would literally be powered down and the next time you press the power button, you would see the boot sequence.

Edit: Perhaps, I should have explained this part of it first to avoid confusion. If it even could have avoided confusion...
[Atrix 4G Android Development] mustard007:
Sorry I can't delete this post...
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Erebus671:
lol, Okay, I haven't figured out how to delete posts either, even if it IS possible...
[Atrix 4G Android Development] bluegrass55:
A Couple Of Questions

Hi,

First to thank Notorious544d for his latest 2.7EE rom. Very smooth and fast.

I have a strange problem that when connected to the car dock & the cable in the cigarette lighter the phone shows that it's being charged but in fact it's not charging.

i.e before 53% after 2 hours 48% charge.

Also regularly during the day I get the warning message that I have left data roaming area where as I have full mobile signal.

Dose anyone one have any ideas?

Thanks.

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 PM ----------

Forgot to add that Superuser keeps asking me for permission.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] mustard007:
Thanks I will try that !
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Erebus671:
Next time you get the chance look at the architecture of a motherboard, you will see that everything leads back to the CPU eventually, and the CPU goes directly to the power supply. Check out the attached image below, unfortunately I don't have a picture of the bottom side of a motherboard, but if you flip a mobo over, you will see that most of the solder connections lead to the CPU or to the power supply connectors. The architecture alone is enough to prove this because a USB port will port go directly to a PCIe port. A SATA port will not connect to anything other than the CPU, unless it is connected in series with other ports, but usually ports and only connected in series with similar ports. At least in the past they were, CPU's are getting more advanced and can send commands of extreme differences over the same bridges these days. But I'm sure you get what I'm saying right? Everything inevitably connects to the CPU.

That is exactly what I'm talking about, that little bit if the CPU that is running, as you put it, is what I've been trying to say, but you can't have only part of the CPU running, maybe only 1 out of x cores, but you still have the whole CPU as a component running, when it enters deep sleep, it, once again, enters into a low frequency state that allows the CPU to "receive, translate and forward signals to and from components" in the deep sleep mode I am mostly talking about the wake commands such as call received, push notification or even play alarm. Of course, those are not the exact commands that the hardware will send to the CPU, but you get my drift.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Erebus671:
As far as what Tom said:

Of course external peripherals are going to be turned off, with the exception of the USB and Radio drivers, but once again, the CPU itself will still be running, nothing he said there actually refers to the CPU except for maybe the S3C6410 SoC, that sounds like a serial number, and I haven't seen any pics of an actual CPU in reference to that... well, reference and yes, I did search, Just gave up on the search... The clocks, codecs and amplifiers are all parts of different hardware within the device, not part of the CPU. Anything can be turned off even without shutting down the CPU, as evidenced by the fact that Wifi/GPS/WifiAP, and even the entire radio chipset can all be shut down from within the operating system.

Edit: I spoke too soon... the S3C6410 SoC is in-fact a CPU. However, like I said above, the CPU is still not COMPLETELY shut down. If you would like to continue this conversation, I would appreciate it if we did so in a PM as I think we've done quite a bit of cluttering to Notorious's thread...

@Notorious: Sorry... :o

Edit again: sorry for the double post, my power company pulled a stupid and caused my home modem to flunk out, so I had to reset it and my browser thought I logged out so it decided not to merge the posts...
[Atrix 4G Android Development] mustard007:
Tun.ko module for OpenVPN

Hi !

this module (/system/lib/modules/tun.ko) is not present in the rom, where I cant get it for the current Neutrino kernel ?

Thanks !
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Formhault:
I know those formulas... at least some of them. For us, U = voltage, I = intensity (ampers, that is), R = resistance... I guess this is the world-wide standard...

I didn't know Q=I/t. I know the Intensity is the speed of the electrons : how fast they move in. Hence why the phone charges faster with 1A output chargers, and slower at, say, 500mA chargers... But then again, this charger is 0.1V higher than most chargers, which I think makes a difference, too.

I still don't get what's the voltage, potential differences and shtuff. -.-

We should've learnt this in high schools? Nope.avi. In high school, we'd learn that the light from a star being 300 thousand kilometers away would get here in one second. That was the most astonishing thing we've learnt in Physics - well, most of us already knew that :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

Hmm... That makes sense. The electrons moving around (== amperage) generates the heat. No movement = no electricity = no heat, lol. Okay... But we still want to UV, lol.

---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

We'd KILL for CISCO courses - among other things, such as gold, money etc. etc. etc.

---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 PM ----------

Speaking of deep sleep... On my girlfriend's HTC Desire S, using a custom Sense ROM, I could see with System Tuner, under Voltages, two other frequencies that weren't shown in Clocks : 25 MHz and 65 MHz. I'm thinking those are deep sleep frequencies. And, for normal use, the frequencies are 254 MHz and so forth... In any case, the voltage for 254 MHz (~250, something, I don't remember EXACTLY) was 800mV, and the voltage for 65 MHz was 775mV. If you judge by the voltage, it doesn't look like a huge power saver - not at all. So I'd say yeah, there's a little bit more to power saving than just UV-ing :p .
[Atrix 4G Android Development] nibutto:
please, look if cyanogenMod process for the manual steps of the display crash or not.

This is the link to what I would like to do to reduce light.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1361391
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Formhault:
Okay. Q = electricity; t = time (seconds). I thought electricity = current = ampers (I)? :/

-----

I guess Notorious will burst in flames when he sees 5 pages off-topic`ing about voltages and physics class :D

---------- Post added at 09:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------

Why the F do people talk about it as it were an internal SD card? I don't get it. Above all, it's FREAKING MISLEADING. I've seen it in other threads, too, and even devs talk about it as if it were a burried SD card (just like the HTC's with WP7 have)... -.-
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Formhault:
System Tuner doesn't show me additional frequencies under the "Voltage" tab. I guess it happened for it to show me two additional (deep sleep) values on the Desire S because of the kernel, which permitted that...

Since the deep sleep frequency for the Desire S is 25 - 65 MHz, and the lowest value for normal usage (=/= deep sleep, so-to-say) is somewhere near 250 MHz... I'd say it's gotta be the same for all phones whose CPU's fall in that line (lowest point near 250 MHz - at least, by default). In any case, the deep sleep frequency should be below 90 MHz. Hell, I could set the lowest (=/= deep sleep) CPU freq to 192 MHz on the EVO 3D, and 128 MHz (if I remember correctly) on the Desire HD, which had the same chipset as the Desire S.

---------- Post added at 10:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

So... Q isn't even worth mentioning :p All we care about is I, right? :p
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Formhault:
I wouldn't say 25 MHz is too much... Remember, your phone must maintain the radio connections active (such as 2G/3G, for start) and decode incoming signals into calls/text messages - that's my guess, at least. So, the CPU must not only keep the RAM alive (so the OS doesn't crash), but it must also keep the RADIO chip awake, so that your phone doesn't basically die on you (what a phone's purpose is, I mean).

---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------

Yes. Happened only on a Sense 3.5 ROM - with a specific, modified, Sense kernel. Didn't happen in MIUI Gingerbread (CM7 kernel). Probably a fault/leak in the kernel that allowed those deep sleep values to be shown there...

I guess deep sleep frequency values don't show up anywhere normal because you're not supposed to be tampering with those. You could make your phone shut down when you press the power button to lock it (instead of deep sleep, it actually dies, because the CPU couldn't handle everything it was supposed to).
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Formhault:
I think if the CPU would go any lower than that, it would require a bit more time to wake up entirely... I'm just saying.

Anyway, I don't REALLY KNOW if that frequency (25 - 65 MHz) was deep sleep. In CPUSpy, the lowest values I had were 250 and something MHz (awake), and Deep Sleep... Nothing in between (such as 25 or 65). I'd say 25 - 65 MHz were deep sleep, but I can't be ENTIRELY SURE. It might just as well be 1 KHz, but I doubt, lol.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Formhault:
Yup, was gonna suggest the same thing. Notorious, you can have the thread back now :D , we un-steal it :p . Sorry!

-----

Is anyone else having troubles with the screen coming back on after a call? You know, the screen goes off when you cover the proximity sensor in-call... Say the other person hangs up before you do - you still have the phone at the ear. If you take it away 3 seconds after the call already ended, the screen doesn't come on anymore. I can see the proximity sensor having a red light somewhat lit there... But the screen won't come on anymore. It took it 2 minutes before it turned back on...
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Maringer:
The pertinent link is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_voltage_scaling#Power

Note that the power consumption reduces quadratically with voltage.

On a number of my of previous PCs (older ones which used an Athlon 64 and Athlon X2), I was able to undervolt considerably and measured a very large drop in power consumption which allowed me to run the fans very slowly and therefore quietly as the CPUs were so cool.

In comparison, modern CPUs have much more advanced voltage and clock control than older CPUs so undervolting isn't able to achieve the same gains. The Tegra2 is a good example of this as the on-chip Dynamic Voltage and Frequency Scaling (DVFS) already does a very good job of undervolting and underclocking depending on performance required.

Therefore, although some power saving gains could probably be made by actively undervolting using apps such as SetCPU, because the DVFS already does this job very effectively, any gains would most likely be very small. Pulling a number out of my backside, I'm guessing a potential improvement of just a few percentage points of stock voltages. Not something you would really notice in day to day usage.

As such, I've not bothered to undervolt my Atrix since the stock CM7 kernel came out as the battery life you can get using this kernel is absolutely fantastic considering we've got a device with a 4" screen and a dual-core CPU!

Edit: Must have had the window containing this thread open for some time without realising it. Therefore, I was replying to a much earlier message. Apologies if it seems a little late!
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Notorious544d:
UV'ing

Wow, I gotta say, it's interesting how this thread became a physics debate lol :eek:

Now to solve those useless 5 pages of arguing. UV'ing does one thing, and one thing only: reduces heat. There's no need to go into it technically as you can see for yourself. At stock UV values, play a game and you'll feel the phone warming up, and when you UV it and play the same game, you'll notice that it'll be slightly cooler.

However, this is NOT the primary purpose. The reason why people UV (especially for other devices) is because it helps their device handle higher OC's. Many phones have the potential to OC a fair bit, but the main restriction is heat as smartphones do not have an active cooling system. Therefore, by UV'ing, you can reduce the heat produced and potentially OC up to ~100/200mhz higher. This is because an unstable phone (assuming that it's OC'ed) freezes/random reboots because of excessive heat. And so UV'ing at the same clock speed can make your phone more stable at higher clock speeds. That is to say, that after a certain limit (usually around -750mV) the device will receive too little voltage for it's clock speed and will become unstable (freeze/random reboot etc).

Let's use the Atrix as an example. The GT+ version which handles 1.45Ghz, will be unstable if you don't UV it. This is why I put out a warning on the download page as the only people who should install GT+ are those who know how to UV.

Now the controversy comes from battery life. Theory explains that UV'ing could potentially increase your battery life. However, this is NOT true. A few months ago, on XDA portal, there was an extensive study from a member testing the Nexus S and he tested all sorts of stuff. One of the main highlights from this study was that surprisingly, UV'ing did not increase battery life. So there's no need to argue over it. If you experience any sort of battery gain, then it's most likely placebo effect.

So to put a long story short, UV'ing only reduces heat consumption.

If anything, this should have been discussed in a kernel thread, but I understand how people can get carried away but it's OK :p

So let's go back on topic.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] ATRIXXIRTA:
hahaha

Ok, back on topic (sort of, lol)

Any chance we'll see a working Neutrino keyboard on cm9??

Joker has it as an option in kitchensink but it doesnt play well and fc's every 6 seconds, lol.

CANT WAIT FOR CM9 NEUTRINO!!!! :P
[Atrix 4G Android Development] sathelate:
Thx Notorious for that usefull easy tips for those who, like me, dont understand anything at all, or almost anything in complicated physics ! hehe

By the way, Using GT get me an easy 59 doing stuff on main screen and texting, and giving me a huge 65 to 70 (wich is my max cpu OC before receiving a down to 1Ghz using set cpu) but if i disable set cpu, i get easely 72-74 playing game and 80 streaming video !

My question : lots of people say that using set cpu leading to freeze and random reboots and some who knows about uv says that downcloacking an overclock kernel could easely use unwanted heat due to UV (like set cpu reducing the clock speed without reducing the current in, or something like that...)

So, it this is true ?! I never had random reboots on your ROM, and it have gone to the SoD only once (a week ago i guess) using set cpu downclocking to 250Mhz while screen off and down to 1Ghz when over 70degrees celcius wich seems to run pretty smooth.

In other words : should i worry about downclocking using set cpu ?

and my second question : is learning to UV can potentionnaly make that heating lil problem away while streaming video from website using flash player (Dolhin HD)?! and if yes, can someone give me a link or a short explanation on how to efficienly UV this GT Neutrino ROM that i LOVED !

THX !

P.s. Oh and by the way, can i just update over 2.6 GT with the 2.7 GT or i should wipe clean using fastboot ? Also, If i want to use Neutrino EE after lets say a while for some reason (cpu heavy heat is an obvious one) should i just flash over the current GT version with the EE or should i falsh one of the older faux kernel as a read a lil page ago in this thread ?!)
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Maringer:
Physics says different. ;)

An older phone I owned, the ZTE Blade, had a kernel from a developer which undervolted both the CPU and the Wifi chip and this definitely offered an improvement on battery life.

Undervolting an Atrix, on the other hand, doesn't achieve much in the way of power savings due, I assume, to DVFS.

Rest assured, however, that undervolting by its nature along does reduce the amount of power used. My old media PC had a CPU with a TDP of 35W and I was able to reduce total system power draw at load by about 40% by undervolting the CPU. This was measured at the plug so, believe me, I've seen with my own eyes that undervolting can save power.

It would appear that DVFS makes undervolting not worth the effort on the Tegra2 on the basis of improving battery life. For those who overclock, however, undervolting can help to allow some higher clock speeds.

Anyway, keep up the good work! :)
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Randomverll:
For the set CPU thing, if it works for you with only minor issues, then stick with it; otherwise, try system tuner. Personally, setcpu has worked fairly well and hasn't caused any major issues so I'm satisfied. There was a time when it acted up, so I uninstalled it and used system tuner for some time which also worked very well, so they both worked correctly for me. Right now I use setcpu without issues and everything is smooth. Q2: undervolting is relatively simple with both of those apps. The most effective method is to start with all values at zero, then work your way down on each value until it freezes. I would suggest starting at maybe -50 all the way down then see how far you can stretch each clock speed if you want that extreme undervolting. I stick with -75 down and -125 at 216mv which is moderate UV and works for me. And for your final question, everyone does flashing and wiping differently. Most effective= using fastboot to erase everything. Gives you a totally fresh and almost always problem free experience. Least effective= just flashing over. Lots of things can go wrong so I wouldnt suggest it. I use fastboot -w and clear dalvik and regular cache then flash which hasn't failed me yet. Those are my opinions and thoughts on those questions others may feel differently.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] kennethpenn:
Hey guys. It would be nice if you'd move to a new thread in General or something. If it doesn't have to do with the ROM, please keep it out of this thread. Thanks!
[Atrix 4G Android Development] sathelate:
thx, Will definitivelytry out with a -50mv down :P

for fastboot i always use the full format, so if you suggest that, i'll probably make it that way then :P

---------- Post added at 08:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------

oh ! sorry kenneth, i know it may sound a lil off topic, but i was asking it in that thread because i though it was directly related to the ROM because, the Kernel is inside the ROM itself, i've not flashed any third party Kernel yet to the Neutrino GT, so ...
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Erebus671:
Yeah, sorry, I believe most of that was my fault. :o

A bit late for that... But yeah, sorry.
[Atrix 4G Android Development] Formhault:
So... How to UV? Must I play with the init.d scripts myself, or tinker with the kernel? Can't I just use SystemTuner and apply the UV with init.d scripts? That's how most of us used to UV the HTC...

I'd flash the EE kernel otherwise, but I see the GT/GT+ kernels are tweaked etc. so I'd rather not stick to EE...

Sent from my Neutrino-loaded ATRIX
[Atrix 4G Android Development] PsyAlik:
I compared batt life from GT to EE and the difference is huge ( EE much much better)