yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] PoisonWolf:
I guess I'm glad my HD2 is now running Mango instead of Gingerbread.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
What bothers me is that people believe ciq is bad, but when microsoft has a backdoor that allows them to remotely remove applications, its considered acceptable. If that backdoor is possible, who's to say they can't turn on or install ciq anytime they want ?

This is not an ios/android/bb/wp issue, if you leave the door open, it will be used.

Root, rom, irradicate ?
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrewkeith5:
I personally am not of the opinion that CIQ is bad. Let's be honest, we know from the London riots earlier this year that it clearly isn't used by the authorities as it took weeks for Blackberry to give up their BBM logs.

In my opinion, if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about it. I don't have a problem with my phone logging what I do - it might make it easier to find and fix a fault one day - but then, I don't have anything to hide. If I did, I probably would use something a bit more secure than the base apps on my off-the-shelf mobile.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Snake.:
First of all, when MS has some "backdoor" in their OS, that´s ok, if RIM has on theirs BB OS, that´s ok, if Apple has one on their iOS, that´s also ok. But if a third party company has this kind of malware on the device, that´s not OK.

Another thing, why are you so sure that MS has some kind of backdoor on Windows Phone 7 OS?
[Windows Phone 7 General] FiyaFleye:
Why did Robo disappear when it was confirmed this was found on iOS?
[Windows Phone 7 General] MJCS:
IOS, blackberry, and android all have remote removal and remote wipe cabilitites on their phones as well. To my knowledge none of the companies (including Microsoft) have ever used the remote uninstall capability.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JVH3:
It has less to do with having something to hide than having information misused. There have been plenty of people convicted of crimes they did not commit. And that info could be used to prosecute you for someone else's crime. Criminals don't necessarily carry a phone that is tracking their location.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Freypal:
I've had countless emails recently from varying companies saying my personal information has been stolen from online databases. Sony and Bioware are two examples.

I have no problem with companies having information on me, as the phrase goes i have nothing to hide. It's what unscrupulous people who can gain access to this information can do with it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
To me the point is you are paying exorbitant prices for cell phones only to have companies planting spyware and selling your private info to make even more money than you initially paid for the phone..

I'm shocked that I read a lot of people that are alright with this.

Does no one see what this kind of breach of our personal freedom leads to?
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Here is the elephant in the room:

What personal freedom?

There are two attitudes people have with this "Big Brother" situation. You can be either offended, worried, and scared, and start showering with your clothes on or you could accept that someone is watching you and keep on showering naked.

Locationgate, scanners in the airport, or Carrier IQ. Its all the same thing. If you buy someone's product and hook it up to someone's service then you can accept that they may be monitoring how you use the product and service or you can fight the system. Maybe I am the user plugged into the Matrix and accept the programming and you are attempting to free yourself.

But I guess I am willing to accept someone knows that I just searched for naked pics of Angelina Jolie, how to cure jock itch, how far behind I am on my credit card payments, and my email passwords. Adn the consequences of if that informations falls into the wrong hands.

How many of us log onto unsecure hoptspots and log into our emails?
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
so then if you buy a t shirt they should be allowed to put a gps tracker in it?

Or pants they wiretap?

I personally think anyone alright with this should seriously consider where this leads to.

You wouldn't want a random person going through your underwear drawer or listening to all your phone calls, so why is it ok for a company to do it in the name of marketing or market research?
[Windows Phone 7 General] sensboston:
Holy s#%t!!! It should be a reason for a huge and loud lawsuit...
[Windows Phone 7 General] dkp1977:
I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere in the contract the user signs. Still questionable though if this is all legal or not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sensboston:
He-he, class action lawyers smell fresh meat :D

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...ve-violated-wiretap-law-in-millions-of-cases/
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Wiretapped pants :D

Should they be allowed? It is their product so they can do whatever they want to. Should they inform me that they are doing this? Yes. But like some people are assuming, the carriers probably are covering themselves legally. The day I fill out a contract to wear some comfortable pants then I will know why :D

So if we signed a contract allowing this to happen why are we grabbing our torches and pitchforks? Because we did not read the fine print and it is reasonable to assume the carriers/oems are our best friends and would not betray our confidence?

I downloaded TrevE's app on my unlocked Motorola Defy running a stock Android 2.3 and it is not there. So this is not everywhere. If it was maybe I would alter my phone habits a little. Maybe I would still look for naked pics of Angelina.
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
the laissez faire attitude from people on this actually shocks and disgusts me..

No where in the fine print did it say "we have the right to monitor everything you do and type and sell it to marketing companies, just because you purchased something at an exorbitant price from us"

Imo anyone who thinks this type of thing is ok should seriously get their head checked

---------- Post added at 04:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 PM ----------

There’s a vast difference between:

a) voluntarily permitting sensitive personal data to be relayed to or by a known entity, in full awareness of the risks involved (i.e. that it could potentially be recorded, intercepted, or used for other purposes without your knowledge), and having the option to take appropriate steps to increase/ensure security (e.g. encryption, tunneling, or simply declining to use a particular service whatsoever); and

b) having your sensitive, personal, potentially unsecured data transmitted to and recorded by a third party of whom you are completely unaware, with neither your knowledge nor consent.

Giving up all rights to future use, transmission and retention of your data just because you temporarily entrust it to a third party is like saying you wouldn’t care if USPS employees opened, read, and recorded all your mail (and then forwarded it to all their friends), since they’re technically already “capturing” your letters when they’re dropped in a mailbox.

Also bear in mind that most legitimate companies with whom you’d be happy to do business will be upfront about how they record, retain, transmit, and use your data, likely having a public company policy and/or a ton of disclaimers and EULAs pertaining to personal data when you begin use of their service. Carrier IQ, on the other hand, would appear to be avoiding all that and simply doing whatever it wishes without advising the end-user of their actions whatsoever.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Freypal:
Agree with this.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nobnut:
No. You are wrong - linky linky (7th paragraph).
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Shocked and disgusted is an attitude of narrow-mindedness. Not everyone shares the same concerns over different matters.

You may care passionately about this, but not give a damn about other things like high fructose corn syrup. Or yellow dye #8. Or that a fried chicken company has a machine that shakes baby chicks to death.

I am just glad there are always some anal retentive persons in some aspect of life that will make a big deal and keep companies in check. But to be disgusted that someone is not grabbing a pitchfork with you is not the right attitude.

So you fight to make sure they have to disclose the information cellphone oems and carriers collect, and I will make sure they disclose that the items you eat were made in the same factory as peanut products.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nobnut:
Are you XDA's food and nutrient correspondent? Interesting.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I have no idea why they would make that claim, but there have already been numerous reports confirming that neither iOS nor WP7 contain CIQ. Sorry that some random BBC writer got it wrong.
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
nope IOS does...

There are numerous reports.

Ignorance is bliss ;)

---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 PM ----------

http://m.cnet.com/Article.rbml?nid=57334575&cid=null&bcid=&bid=-17
[Windows Phone 7 General] Alcoholic:
Yeah, even Gizmodo the biggest apple fansite in the world said that it exists in ios. And you know its serious when Gizmodo says something negative about Apple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sensboston:
He's just upset because he owns a few spy phones, and all his visits to porno sites are already recorded and sent to Carrier SpyQ :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
So when Carrier IQ is found on Android it’s “monitoring every single key you press on your smartphone, reading your SMS, and logging much of the personal data you transmit, too”

When Carrier IQ is found on iOS there’s “no clear word on just what is or is not being tracked or collected.”

Interesting.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I stand corrected (but your childish "ignorance is bliss" comment is uncalled for). Try to grow up a bit, please.

According to information that surfaced last night (after there had already been numerous reports that iOS was not using CIQ), this was posted on the Verge:

The thing about CIQ that most concerns me is the fact that it transmits the data it captures as unencrypted plain text (on Android, at least).
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
I love how you act as if you're the pinnacle of maturity LOL

There isn't really any indication that is doesn't on IOS as well, aside from obvious media bias...
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
Are you even capable of replying in a way that doesn't include a personal insult? So far I haven't seen it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
pot calling the kettle black?
[Windows Phone 7 General] nobnut:
No. If you say it is black, RoboDad will say it is white.

The pot is therefore calling the kettle white I surmise.
[Windows Phone 7 General] marvelous7325:
Does anybody know how to download this if it isn't on your phone? I ask because I'm taking a cyber security course and I have to do a project/presentation. I would love to do it on this and my old phone and show my class. Thanks in advance.
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
I'm surprised apple isn't selling this as a feature yet..

"we'll teach you how to hold your phone properly and then boost your phones IQ with carrier IQ!"
[Windows Phone 7 General] OmegaRED^:
I am doing my part for the users around the world....

http://www.xda-developers.com/android/carrier-iq-sues-treve/

Are you?
[Windows Phone 7 General] sensboston:
I just curious: seems like CIQ issue was discovered a long time ago:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=11763089#post11763089

Whats actually unique Rafael Rivera did? Published long YouTube video?
[Windows Phone 7 General] OmegaRED^:
It's called a crush tactic.. people acted like it was nothing....

They rely on us to forget or be so misinformed so that these atrocities may happen again.
[Windows Phone 7 General] solver404:
In response to it being a cell phone with contractual agreements- you can purchase an unactivated handset containing CIQ software and run it off of WiFi, or even leave it in airplane mode, the logging continues. That is a privacy violation of my personal property.

I would also be upset if I found my WiFi connected laptop were logging personal data without my knowledge or consent.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sensboston:
However: discovered a long time ago and still NO class action filed?.. There are two possibilities:

- class action specialized lawyers are lazy (lawsuit like that means HUGE money for lawyer)

- may be it's not that simple, and damn Carrier SpyQ is protected somehow :(

P.S. BTW, I'm happy to have WP7 and all my Android devices with custom ROM's...
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrewkeith5:
Right. I can't respond to you all separately but you're basically saying the same thing. SO:

Go out and prove to me an exact example of when YOU have been contacted by a marketer who has known exactly what you have sent in a text message.

Go out and prove to me that your phone STORES that data somewhere, let alone transmits it. That video shows that, under the very, very specific scenario of an Anroid phone WITH USB DEBUGGING SWITCHED ON, connected via USB AND NOTHING ELSE, the data is transmitted to A SINGLE COMPUTER. It does NOT show anything remotely suggesting that the data is stored or transmitted in any other way. It, frankly, looks like the sort of thing that would be used in a service centre.

Go out and prove to me that CIQ isn't a "self-heal" software that's designed to detect and automatically fix software problems if they occur.

Finally, go out and prove to me that you can get hold of that data. I am in the marketing business, and yes, marketers can get hold of a lot of data, but I have never heard of, found, or experienced being able to get the level of data that you all seem to be assuming will be used for harm.

If you can prove that harm is being caused by CIQ, then I might consider changing my opinion. Until then, I'll go with the facts I know, and wont go around making assumptions like you all are.
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
Wow what a moronic post LOL

Burden of proof..

It's up to them to prove the data they took without our knowledge was not used in an improper manner, not vice versa

They've been pretty quiet and sketchy about the whole thing, I think that speaks volumes
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrewkeith5:
And that is your serious and reasoned response.

Wow. Your level of intelligence amazes me.

If you can't prove they're doing anything with it, let alone the fact that you can't prove they even have the data how do you expect to even bring a case to them?

They're probably sketchy because the people you're asking (who, lets face it, are low level customer support), probably don't have a blind clue what you're on about.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
I'm not upset. My Defy was in the clear. They will never know the naughty things I have been doing. ;);)

Which does bring up a question: how many people on XDA found CIQ?
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
read edit please....

Your argument is like saying "flying spaghetti monster exists, prove me wrong"
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrewkeith5:
You seem to misunderstand. My argument, in that scenario is:

"You say flying spaghetti monster exists. Prove it"
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
makes no sense...

We know the data transmission occurs, why would it be up to us to prove it was malicious and not the other way around?

Lrn2scientificmethod

---------- Post added at 08:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

most on xda are rooted with custom roms, so I dont think it would be a very valid indication of the severity of it
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrewkeith5:
Woah. Hold it.

You know the data transmission occurs when the phone is plugged directly into a PC using USB, and when USB debugging is on

WHAT HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN is that in ANY other scenario, the data is transmitted. Not that I have seen, anyway. In the same way, there is no proof the data has been stored. And frankly, if it were stored I think we probably would have known about it years ago with the amount of hacking that does on in the filesystem.

Considering almost all Android phones will NOT be in this scenario, so far it's a pretty weak argument.
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
no no...

That was a maybe, and only with IOS.

Nevertheless, the point is it exists, so THEY should be the ones explaining, not us
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrewkeith5:
What was a maybe?

WHY should they be the ones explaining? You haven't even given them anything to explain.
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
wow dude..... LOL

There is an app found that can transmit data, ALL DATA.

they should explain what its doing there and why, suing the person who discovered it does not make it look any less sketchy..

The debugging thing was only supposedly on IOS, and even that was not for sure.

Do us a favor, go do some reading and come back please
[Windows Phone 7 General] sensboston:
Seems like he can't use google/xda search, I'll help him: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/11/carrieriq-censor-research-baseless-legal-threat
[Windows Phone 7 General] svtfmook:
not sure if it was mentioned here or not, but forbes spoke with a legal expert and they are now saying that this is a case of federal wiretap and that class action suits can be brought against CIQ, carriers and manufacturers.
[Windows Phone 7 General] antiquezip:
Senate Demand CarrierIQ Answers By Dẹc 14th

http://franken.senate.gov/files/letter/111201_Letter_to_CarrierIQ.pdf

CarrierIQ Get Hits With US Senate's Investigation

http://gizmodo.com/5864218/carrieriq-gets-hit-with-senate-investigation
[Windows Phone 7 General] OmegaRED^:
Left 4 dead was originally my idea.. had the idea a few months after CS source came out..

The 'dynamic director' was my idea to keep enemy numbers high.

I explained and discussed this in massive detail over the phone.

When L4D was released my friend lol'ed at how similar it was to my original description.

You have the proof but you lack the comprehension.

It's sent to CIQ..

1. without my consent..

2. if it was trying to improve my experience it would be easy to handle and explain and even cyanogen collects stats, but you agree to that first.

Can you prove that no harm has come from it? if so how?

You say allot but most of it is biased trash.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Freypal:
As someone who has had personal details stolen... online accounts. Paypal as well, i'm reticent about anyone having my data. I don't really care what they are going to do with it. There will always be someone in the world who can gain access to it and use it for the wrong reasons.
[Windows Phone 7 General] OmegaRED^:
Someone recently hacked my xbox 360....

$2000 bill for DLC i never wanted.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrewkeith5:
Learn to read:

NOTHING I SAID WAS A STATEMENT OF FACT. I AM BASING WHAT I KNOW ON WHAT HAS BEEN SAID IN THIS THREAD.

I am inviting you all to convince me that I should care, which frankly I probably won't but I'm willing to be convinced.

Sarcastic comments aren't going to do anything to make me care. You're all going around like headless chickens whining on that your personal data is being sold to everyone and anyone (like a lot of people do, really) but so far i haven't seen anything concrete.

Having read that letter you link to, it still clearly states MAY be transmitting the data. There is still no proof. I look forward to December 14th.
[Windows Phone 7 General] xHausx:
For those who want to know more, here is the original thread about Carrier IQ along with HTC's loggers and Google's logging on android. It does log everything (insecurely and unencrypted except SMS messages) all the time but only sends limited date. We've know about it for over a year and a half now but didn't realize exactly how bad it had gotten until Trev started digging in to it.

Someone has gone through and cleaned up the thread so it may not all make sense, but the info there is still good.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1247108
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
dont blame us for a lack of comprehension on your behalf...

If you "dont care" and can't grasp it, maybe leave the thread to those who do, and those who can
[Windows Phone 7 General] OmegaRED^:
Mobile Service Intelligence is the process of analyzing data from phones to give you a uniquely powerful insight into mobile service quality and user behavior.

http://www.carrieriq.com/overview/mobileservice/index.htm <sauce

all from Carrier IQ site
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrewkeith5:
Once again, where is the lack of comprehension?

I am just point out to you all that you, from what I can tell, are overreacting. If you would care to provide the data that proves me wrong I'll happily listen, but just ignoring me and telling me to go away? Just tells me that you can't.

So, as I don't have time to waste trying to get you to comprehend this very basic idea, I will leave and get on with my life (some people have those, you know)

---------- Post added at 07:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 PM ----------

Better, at least you're providing some form of evidence! Incidentally I've just been looking at that website, and as I say I look forward to the 14th when someone who has a clue what CIQ is responds.
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
No, you're saying "prove it isn't malicious", which is fallacious as the burden of proof lies with them.

Ps- it isn't up to us to hold your hand through reading articles.

There is tons of them out there that outline it all, google is your friend
[Windows Phone 7 General] xHausx:
*ahem*

All the information you guys are arguing about can be found if you read...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Freypal:
For me, personally the lack of a clear or even any kind of opt-in opt-out is the issue.

If you have no problem with this data being logged fair enough there should be a clear opt-in choice.

If you don't want the data being logged you should be able to opt-out or at least kill the process.

The lack of choice for me is the main problem.
[Windows Phone 7 General] xHausx:
You just hit the one thing that would have saved CarrierIQ all of this trouble. It's bad enough that it happens to begin with, but the fact that it is impossible to completely disable it without heavily modifying the phones ROM is the reason why it's become such an issue. They've built it in to everything from the framework, the stock browser, the dialer, the txt message app, etc. Even the stock calculator works as somewhat of a front end(looks more like a trojan) for it and has more code in it for cIQ than it does for the actual calculator part of it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] :
Joe Belfiore has twitted that Windows Phone doesn't have Carrier IQ.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JohnnyRoyale:
Don't know about anyone else but carrier IQ installed and sent a message to my phone explaining their position in all of this.

Inspire 4G Blackice 1.24 Official Build...
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoobysnacks:
This is interesting!

http://www.bgr.com/2011/12/01/senat...il-december-14th-to-address-privacy-concerns/
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
Good article! And there is one quote in it that really sums up my concerns:
[Windows Phone 7 General] efjay:
Equal blame has to go to the carrier if they requested it and the OEM who installed it. Carrier IQ makes the software but dont install it, that's HTC's job. If the carrier requested it they too should be in the dock. The Senator should be looking at all parties in this.
[Windows Phone 7 General] weijoon:
It is quite funny for me that when an overreacting calling others overreacting...