yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Acer Iconia A500] Qwallace70129:
Thank you for that. I understand that. But we all have a personal "duty" to each other here. I'm finally taking classes so that I can be helpful here. I dont feel like its my duty. But to be a productive member. I have to.

Thank you for answering and not being a douche like some people have been....
[Acer Iconia A500] HD87:
If I were Thor I would have had the thread closed down aswell. People just don't listen. 1st post in the thread stated if you don't have anything to contribute, do not post, commenting is not contributing.. I read alot of nonsense. I don't need to test an alpha.. Wtf.. Thor will get it figured out.. lovin the v14.2, so I can wait.. ;)
[Acer Iconia A500] blucmal:
Any chance we could get milestone updates as you make progress? (even if its on your own site with comments disabled. By the way your site has got to be the most innovative I have seen the way it scales to the device) By the way what did you get reported for? The fact you didnt want random comments in the thread? I cant see anything wrong with your request to keeping the thread to development only.
[Acer Iconia A500] thor2002ro:
sure all is here

http://forum.tegraowners.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=106

just made one...
[Acer Iconia A500] blucmal:
Many Thanks !!
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
What was it reported for? I was thrilled you'd gone back to the gpl-compliant route, I was looking forward to being able to use your work. Don't let an individual dissuade you from the open thing.
[Acer Iconia A500] stimpyshaun:
Seriously sounds like a whole lot of whining too me.
[Acer Iconia A500] Cheasy123:
Who are you? Do you even own an acer tablet? Or are you just trying to wreak havoc in the forum? Thor has been working his ass off on this ICS build (and all his other ROMs, I might add) and is doing an amazing job at it. He's spending a ridiculous amount of time on this and receiving almost nothing in return. I don't blame him for one second for his "whining".
[Acer Iconia A500] stimpyshaun:
I understand he works hard... its just unfortunate he doesn't wanna be a team player
[Acer Iconia A500] comnam90:
Sorry to hear bro, love your work
[Acer Iconia A500] maris__:
@stimpyshaun: What ridiculous allegation!! Who developed the recovery, the best custom ROM, the only available ICS ROM and shared it with the community? Was ist you? Or any of the moderators? Without Thor, the Acer Iconia would be half the fun. We all, including you and the moderators of this forum should be aware of that.

Best regards, maris
[Acer Iconia A500] blazingwolf:
Ummm. Last time I checked his is not the only one.

Be that as it may it is sad to see how this site has deteriorated over the years. It never used to be necessary to site gpl like ezterry has done. Sharing just happened.

The last thing I will say is that none of this conversation including this post from really has anything to do with ICS and really should be deleted so that it doesn't take away from the original post.
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
Oh, I see. I had assumed that when Thor started developing on Github he'd opened his kernel too. Fair enough then. I think it's a real shame that such a talented developer refuses to operate according to the open-source rules - there's a certain irony that in order to stop people stealing his work without giving credit, he steals other people's work by using their code and refusing to follow their rules.
[Acer Iconia A500] netham45:
The truth of the matter is is that this is an open community. Things don't always happen perfectly in line with the licenses. I suggest you get off your high horse and go set up your own repos and such; you'll likely realize it's a gigantic waste of time. Personally, I'm with thor on this one. He's giving to XDA and the administrators, the voice of XDA for all of us, are basically saying, "That's great. Now do this or I'll ban you."

What you are asking for him to do is to put a rather large amount of work into getting a repo set up simply to appease you. He's perfectly right in going to his own site. If anyone had a problem with his kernels they'd be able to contact you and, under various DMCA exceptions as a content provider, you'd be legally immune as long as you removed the offending content in a timely manner. This has not happened, at least not as far as I know. You're only pushing your interpretation of the laws at hand upon a contributing and respected member of the community, stifling the growth of an impressive ROM along with the growth and expansion of the community.

With that being said, it is ultimately up to the XDA administrators; this is not a publicly owned website,and they can do whatever they want. I won't deny them this, nor will I raise issue on it again. I just want it to be known that the actions they are taking are very disagreeable, and in my opinion, against the very principles that the licenses they are enforcing were designed to protect.

As far as him using adfly goes, that's just warmongering on the administrative part.
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
All he has to do is stick a zip of his source up with each build. No repo required. It's not that hard. In fact he doesn't even have to do that, he just has to agree to if someone asks for it. This is basic stuff, man. If you build on someone else's code that they released as open source, it's incredibly rude to just steal it and refuse to accept their terms.
[Acer Iconia A500] netham45:
It's incredibly rude to act as a vigilante on someone else's behalf, stifling work and progress for hundreds of users.
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
You don't think the fact that Thor can take improvements developed by anyone and integrate into his work, but nobody can take improvements developed by Thor and integrate them into their work stifles work and progress? It does - see here for an example: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=19773298&postcount=117 - Thor's kernel gets wireless running OK on ICS, but nobody else can use that because Thor won't release his kernel source.

And you know that there are thousands of individuals with copyright over different parts of the kernel, and Thor's ripping off all their work - and you're OK with that?

Are you suggesting that if someone who had written part of the kernel complained, you'd then be OK with requiring Thor to release his source as per the license?
[Acer Iconia A500] thor2002ro:
themono, I'm curios... how do you contribute to the development? apart from running your "mouth" and being a drama queen?
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
I support and donate to developers who don't steal others work. I haven't developed myself in years - never for Android. I used to work on Rockbox a bit back in the day. I'd note that I couldn't contribute to your development even if I wanted to, as you closed your source.

I'd love to support and use your work too, Thor, if you didn't steal from other developers. As I've said before, I think you're a very good dev, but not one who plays by the rules.

I'm curious how you justify stealing others work in the name of stopping them stealing yours?
[Acer Iconia A500] netham45:
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. XDA is acting on the behalf of those who actually have legal control over the kernel (and I'm more than sure that somebody has reported him to them by now with the whiny bunch of people there are here), without contacting them or actually having permission to. Yes, it is their site and within their rights to do this, but they're fighting to protect people who haven't asked for help, and that's costing us all.
[Acer Iconia A500] dongimin2:
As an OP, i feel that I must say something ;)

I do notice that Thor's kernels are a GPL Violation, which is not a good thing for both you and me. However, I do not want to report this as this will most likely hurt Thor's feelings and lead him to cease development.

This exact same thing happened with m-deejay, he refused to let others(especially targeted thor...) use his open sourced code (why open source in the first place :confused:) and he left development after people started questioning and attacking him.

We've lost another, the guy who made the 3G dongle drivers (SO SORRY TO FORGET YOUR NAME, THE THREADS ARE BURIED...) because of that argument.

I am very reluctant to report anyone or aggravate anyone in that matter, since losing devs is a bigger problem than getting sources, imho.

Let's face it, thor is a smart developer. His kernels are one of the best (there are two... but you get the point), and his ROM is the only updated ported ROM (m-deejay used to do this too, but he left) and we don't want to lose another great developer.

-------------------------------

Now with the notion of obtaining sources, thor needs to agree that sharing sources will definitely improve the quality of everything around this forum. If he had shared sources with say, m-deejay or HoneyVillian, he would have, collectively, gotten extremely good results, with bugs getting ironed every day.

Now for the current events. I strongly urge Thor and blazingwolf to work together on the ICS builds. Thor, release your sources to at least blazingwolf and cooperate, just this time. You can decide if you want to close-source your next project or not. blazingwolf, you should work with Thor and ignore his past arguments - do not attack him, do not attack him about source sharing.

Just this one time.

Also, the bystanders. If you are not going to use his source, please do not threaten him. He is obviously uncomfortable releasing his source (i suspect that an asshole stole his code and claimed it was his back in the day), so unless you have a pretty good reason, which in thread, ICS building, please do not harass developers for sources. Game theory people, which is more damaging? The opportunity for early ICS, or getting sources?

TL;DR: Please do release sourcesvto at least your fellow developers, and try not to hurt anyone. Play nice, work together.

peace out.

P.S. Opening sources is a very good thing; i assure you. my phone, the LG P500, is a notoriously bad phone. It had touch driver problems, famous for taking way too much CPU clocks if the screen was touched. Its stock ROM's were incomprehensibly bad, but with the start of mik's CM7 multi-user contributing project thing, there has been a HUGE increase in ROM's and overall quality boom by a single guy. The funny thing is mik has de-facto left the CM7 dev scene, and I assure you, releasing sources and/or at least cooperation will help a lot.
[Acer Iconia A500] dongimin2:
Ah, I must add this.

Although I am pro-Thor, the Thor fanboys need to wake the **** up. (P.S. pro-Thor != fanboy, get some moderation and rational thought.) Even though he has contributed so much, he did in fact not release the source code, which is frowned upon by the community. This sort of closed down thing is hated because...

lets go back to the fundamentals. give me an example of a closed down system. It's also called a "walled garden".

Yes, the ****ing iPhone.

Many of the developers here came to android to have fun because it is open, as in open sourced.

------------------------------------------------

Now for the haters. You haters need to chill out. Coax and cooperate, not threaten or sue. Talking about suing, that reminds me of Apple again :p

remember what happened to m-deejay? yes.

Thor just needs to release ICS sources to at least blazingwolf to cooperate, not necessarily the whole community, because he seems to be allergic to people stealing his work. If blazingwolf decides to steal work (highly unlikely, we know why), I would be perfectly fine with Thor shutting down his work again, but for the mean time, Thor should open his sources partially.

oh god, i am restating my post again and again...

------

Remember, we are here to have fun, produce and be proud. None of us are our rivals, none of us are enemies.

------

oh god, i can't stop talking.

If thor was indeed "a criminal scum", would you really want to report him? say this was a really smart math-geek roomate, but say he cheated on a english test. Yes, by the schools standards, you are to report him. Would you report him? Why or why not? If he decides to quit school and work as a wal-mart employee, would you still do it? consider that by losing this guy, we are losing some intelligence from our collective human resource 'gene pool'.
[Acer Iconia A500] dongimin2:
mind sharing his name?

although you wouldn't know... just in case you know, lets lynch him.

PITCHFORKS HERE GET YOUR PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES
[Acer Iconia A500] dongimin2:
may I ask where this allegation of stealing code coming from?
[Acer Iconia A500] armada786:
dongimin2, are you actually saying Thor should not follow the license agreements and the rules of XDA just because we might scare him off for calling him out on it? Quite frankly themono is right, he needs to play by the rules. There are no ifs or buts. He isn't just bound by XDA rules but by a legal license.

I'm also really disgusted to see you pulling the "what have you done to help development" and "lol you're just a drama queen" cards, Thor. That's irreverent. You may be a good developer, Thor, but that doesn't entitle you to special privileges and themono's point remains valid.

EDIT: Before I'm ignored for only having 5 posts by the "post count == intelligence" mentality.
[Acer Iconia A500] melcali:
you only have 5 posts. there is no way you can be right or give advice. its simply impossible.
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
Sure. Person A writes code. Person A releases it to the world, saying you can use my code, but if you do, you have to do what I did and release it too.

Person B then takes their code, uses it, but ignores their rules. Person B has clearly stolen Person A's code.

I've never accused Thor of being anything - other than a code thief. I don't know him and can't comment on his personality, only his actions.
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
In that case, I'd suggest you have a read of Harald Welte, Werner Almesberger, or Matthew Garrett, all of which own copyright over various parts of the kernel and all of which have said it's never OK to willfully breach the GPL license on their code.

I haven't reported it personally because I'd far rather Thor just got back in line with the GPL and we had a great developer working with the community.
[Acer Iconia A500] ubutnux:
Early Ics build on hannspree http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLmm4W2GuxI

Did you see how smooth the ui? Really hope it will be big improvement for android experiences.
[Acer Iconia A500] dongimin2:
Yes, I have already mentioned why i try to ignore this law quite a lot. You seem to not read my wall of text, expected behavior, i don't blame you.
[Acer Iconia A500] dongimin2:
Let me get this straight.

My opinion is this.

Thor really needs to release his sources for ICS and pay full attention working together with blazingwolf and whoever decides to join them. On the other hand, I do not have a comment on his other works other than I strongly encourage Thor to release the sources.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLmm4W2GuxI

Look at this ****. Are we going to let them win? NO.

Hooah.
[Acer Iconia A500] blucmal:
I just hope that thor does not let the bad blood here stop him developing this build (politics aside). Same goes for blazingwolf. I think its great that he is giving it a go and trying hard to get a build out for us and hope he keeps trying with or without the help of thor. I also hope that any devs that can, give blazing a hand to get the build out. I wish I had the ability to be able to help :(
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
Just to confuse the issue a little more, Android (ie, ICS itself) is under the Apache license, so source doesn't need to be released for a modified version - ie, Google says, you can take our code and modify it and it's all yours.

On the other hand, the linux kernel which it runs on is GPL, which DOES require source release - the devs say you can use our code, but only on the condition you release your source as well.

Which is why it's all the more bizarre that Thor started a git repo for ICS dev but used a precompiled kernel binary - he started releasing his source for the thing where he didn't have to, and refused to release the source for the part he did have to. It's surreal. He was releasing the source of stuff he didn't have to (which was, to be fair, very nice), and then turning round and ripping off the people who DID require it released!
[Acer Iconia A500] armada786:
Pretty much the only problems I have with Thor are the fact that he didn't adhere to the guidelines set by the GPL (and by extension, XDA) and his attitude about it. Most of this "drama" could really be avoided if he did the bare minimum.
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
Yep, exactly. It's his call where he wants to develop, his call if he wants to talk to other devs or not, etc, etc.

All he needs to do is stick up a zip of his kernel source and we're cool. It's really not difficult.
[Acer Iconia A500] dongimin2:
Do people read? He said he doesn't want to give out sources because he is afraid people will steal his work and pretend it's their's. He said the exact same thing last year, and I am pretty sure he already dealt with some thief asshole waay before he acquired the A500.
[Acer Iconia A500] Moscow Desire:
Man, this is better than the old Jerry Springer shows :D:D:D:D

The Drama... the Jealousy..... and people just can't get enough of it :D:D:D
[Acer Iconia A500] FloatingFatMan:
When it cones to gpl code, his wants are irrelevant.
[Acer Iconia A500] Biologos:
Really? Because you say so? At most, you can just chase him off the boards. Is it going to be his loss our ours?

That should be the bottomline. We have a very capable tablet that for some reason has not had the love it deserves from developers. Thor is one of the best out there, like it or not. And he is responsible for creating the recovery, which everybody uses to flash a new ROM. As for his ROM+ kernel, it is by far the most stable and the most smooth, everybody agrees on that. So, on his own time he is improving my tablet along with many others. If you don't like his modus operandi, it is very simple, don't use his stuff (including the recovery, of course). But you people are way out of line when you are chasing one of the best developers away from this community over some trivialty. And if you are so concerned over GPL, why don't you simply sepnd all this time and effort to develop something better and open, so you can spite him where it hurts?
[Acer Iconia A500] bahurd:
Well put....
[Acer Iconia A500] Cactus42:
I vote we should instantly ban everything that breaks the GPL. I mean obviously Google have released the source for HC.

Oh, wait...
[Acer Iconia A500] gh123man:
As stated earlier. Andoid and hc is under a different license therefore the source did not require to be released.
[Acer Iconia A500] Cactus42:
Honeycomb IS Android. Android is a derivative of Linux, and Linux is bound by the GNU General Public License. Fact is regardless of what Google or Thor or anyone here says, they are bound by this because it is implemented further up the tree than Google.

But, supposing there was this weird and wonderful licence where Honeycomb isn't any of these, then Thor doesn't have to release anything because he's bound by the same rules.
[Acer Iconia A500] GalGavu:
That thing that android is derivative of linux doesn't mean it has to be under GPL.

Look at RedHat is not openSource and you have to pay for using it and definitely it's more like linux than android :)

About the whole thing - you guys don't have anything else to do?? The funny part of everything is that even if you disagree with Thor you will use his ICS when it will be finished if no one else will come with it's own.

And those who are so against what Thor does (I mean those of you who tell that Thor should show his sources) how many of you are programmers and from how many of you someone stole the code??

P.S. I'm not on any side of this conversation :)
[Acer Iconia A500] Cactus42:
I agree.

Just about the GPL and Linux though, Redhat give away Fedora, and CentOS is the Enterprise edition a few releases down the line so they give all thier stuff away free eventually. That said the GPL never meant free cost for completed products, just freedom of distribution to continue development etc, so the only part that has to be given away for free is the source code.
[Acer Iconia A500] ezterry:
The kernel is not userspace, the userspace google completely re-wrote to be apache 2 licence (thus bionic not GNU tools), so All google and the phone makes need to release is the kernel and one or two other packages.. and these have been releaed by google since day one of HC's release.

Apache 2 != GPL

If thor must keep the device tree to himself well that's anoying but fair google let's him.. but not the kernel. We know this is hard to understand without reading the licence.

Last I checked redhat gives the binaries, *source* under the GPL, and support to those that pay for the support agreement.. if you don't pay they give you nothing.

CentOS removes redhat's trademarks (in thory anyway) and re-distributes a very simular package based off the GNU licences parts of redhat. Sans support.

----

As an open source developer I must say I don't care if Thor is scared off or not, the open source developers of XDA-developers just don't want his hype when he refuses to release the kernel source to the kernel users and thus is not part of the open conversation.

His userbase trying to defind him rather than move along to his site with him *are* doing a much better job of scaring other developers off to sell their a500 and find a tab with a comunity that believes in open source.
[Acer Iconia A500] gh123man:
I agree 100% with you... comming from a programmer i understand his frustration. I greatly appreciate his work and everything he has done for us. I also take no one side in this debate. I know many dont agree with how he does things but i admire what he does and strive to be thay tallented one day.
[Acer Iconia A500] Moscow Desire:
Damn dude...

Were you born a douchebag? Or did you have to work it your whole life?

Just curious.

Because it seems to me, there is just a whole lot of Jealousy running rampant. Almost like it's some sort of turf war.

Oh, this is "MY" playground, and if you don't play by "MY" rules, you'll suffer.

Geeze, grow up and get a life. And this goes out to several others that previously posted. And you know "exactly" who you are.

So what if somebody doesn't want to share their toys. I can see why.... rabid shrews coming out of the ground at each opportunity. And "open source" and so called GPL, GNU, or FUL, well, it doesn't mean diddly.

Just plain jealousy.

No wonder xda is losing their reputation, based on the comments posted in just this thread alone.
[Acer Iconia A500] armada786:
How long are you going to be a sheep until you realize that Thor is breaking xda rules and refusing to abide by the terms of the lisence that he agreed to that legally bin him to provide kernel source.

This has nothing to do with his great ROMs and jealousy over them.

This has nothing to do with not providing his source tree for the userland.

This has to do with him not doing the bare minmum he has to do, which is release the kernel source. Even most OEMs do this. If you bothered to read articles on the portal you'd see that XDA was calling out HTC for not providing kernel source for all of their devices. XDA and us open source deveopers take this seriously.

It doesn't matter how great his ROMs are and people rip them off. He has to at least follow the GPL. I don't care if he never releases any of the stuff he isn't required to.

If he wants to leave, fine by me. Its not like we'll never see another dev. Maybe I'll go learn myself.