yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Acer Iconia A500] Moscow Desire:
Now "there's a novel idea". I'd like to see somebody "learn themselves".

There are no "rules". It's at the whim of those who call themselves moderators, administrators, seasoned developers. And the animosity runs high here at xda.

One can only look at the threads, and see who the territorial "beasts" are.

Thor, against my better judgement, tried to open some development. And what happened? The shrews came out of the woodwork, and began the territorial fight once again.

People are trying to put an ICS together, like Blaze. And what happened? Douchbags once again reared their ugly faces, and ruined it.

Shame on you all.
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
You get that the GPL is a legally enforceable software license, right? It doesn't matter what XDA says - Thor can only build his kernel because of the work others have done. He's stealing that work. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Thor can do what he likes with ICS, with his honeycomb roms, etc. He's legally compliant. I haven't criticised him once for closing his source on ICS - I don't agree with it, but that doesn't matter, he's allowed by the people that wrote the code in the first place.

He's not allowed by the people that wrote the code in the first place to close his kernel.

I get that it's difficult to understand the difference between "Android" and "the Linux kernel", but they are different. Once is open source in the sense that you can take the code and do pretty much anything you like with it, according to the people who originally wrote it (Android), and the other is open source in the sense that you can take the code and do pretty much anything EXCEPT close your own source, according to the people that wrote it (the kernel).

---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------

But you get that that is exactly what he is doing, right? Stealing the code of the people who wrote the kernel, and stealing the patches developed by other android developers? There is no way for us to know whose code he is and isn't using, because he steals it and refuses to release his source according to the license granted to the code.

---------- Post added at 08:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 AM ----------

You show a fundamental misunderstanding of what is going on here. Linux is a kernel. Honeycomb is a userspace set of tools running atop that kernel. Linux is GPL. Honeycomb is Apache. Linux is developed by a large network of devs, further up the chain than Google, and they set the license. Honeycomb (and ICS) is developed by Google itself, and accordingly has its license set by Google.

Thor is compliant with the Apache license set by Google, but not with the GPL set over the kernel.
[Acer Iconia A500] Moscow Desire:
Enforcable by who?

If it were a business, well, I could understand.

But a bunch of A500 users violating their warranties???

Phhhhtttt.

I guess you join the ranks of the others.

And frankly, you should find a better arguement.
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
I'm not sure I understand your argument - are you saying the license is enforceable against a business but not against an individual?

Also, saying someone should find a better argument isn't a stand in for actually arguing with them.
[Acer Iconia A500] armada786:
I don't think he quite understands how a license agreement works and probably has never heard of court cases involving the GPL, when, in fact, there have been. Someone could legally sue HTC right now for those kernel sources they haven't published yet.
[Acer Iconia A500] Entropy512:
Similarly, Cisco HAS been sued by the FSF for GPL violations in many of its devices. http://arstechnica.com/open-source/...f-gpl-lawsuit-appoints-compliance-officer.ars - This was, primarily, over Linux kernel source. (Sometimes it was over busybox. Which reminds me, I need to link to the git repo I built busybox from in my relevant threads.)

If you release a kernel that you built from source, you MUST release source. (While the letter of the GPL requires you to release full source, around here most people are fine with releasing a patchset and pointing to the appropriate upstream tarball.)

If you release a kernel without the source, you are stealing the work of the thousands of Linux kernel developers who have come before you. In this case, I'd say that there's about a 75% chance the author has stolen Cyanogen's ICS kernel patchset for the Samsung Tab 10.1. The Linux kernel would not exist without the GPL, and Android would not exist in the form it does without the Linux kernel. If you have a problem with GPL compliance, then go buy an iPad, TouchPad, or Playbook, because without the GPL, they would likely be your only choice.

To the people whining about no HC source - Show me ONE example, just ONE, of a Honeycomb device for which source code for the GPL components was not provided. Remember, there wouldn't BE a custom kernel if not for the manufacturer releasing source code under the GPL.
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
Those of you who are supporting Thor here, please understand that you're supporting him at the cost of other devs.

Thor can freely take from CyanogenMod's kernels to get things working, but when Cyanogen goes to get ported to the A500, it'll take that much longer because Thor feels he can steal their work without giving back.

Likewise, BlazingWolf's ICS... Thor can take what he likes, but doesn't give back.

If RichardTrip, another great dev, wants to build an ICS rom, he will release his kernel source (as he always does), and Thor can take from it, but won't give back.

You're holding back the devs who are willing to work with the community if you endorse people stealing others work and closing their source.
[Acer Iconia A500] dongimin2:
that is exactly why I strongly encourage Thor to release sources, but not necessarily support people attacking him.
[Acer Iconia A500] flonker:
Are people honestly suggesting that Edward and Jacob put aside their differences and do what's best for Bella?

Sorry... Must of gotten this thread mixed up with another one I was reading. Guess I forgot which one was written by 13 year-old girls. My bad.
[Acer Iconia A500] Qwallace70129:
Dude really missing the point......its how knowledge is transferred and advances are made...

What if the Wright Brothers never shared their notes....what if Henry Ford didn't allow for competition.... what if it was only at&t or Verizon.... competition drives advancement...... everyone that's complaining about Thor's non compliance understands this. We could possibly have way more great roms and more than likely we would have an ics daily driver by now...if he wasn't hoarding the shortcuts....I don't knock his skills at developing... I just think that more ppl with the knowledge would equal more serious breakthroughs for all of us.

Imagine where our A500s could be if other devs had access to the tricks and tips that he uses....

Sent from my 1.4 ghz ACS Ice Creamy Epic 4g
[Acer Iconia A500] Biologos:
Why are we doing this? We just say let everybody do their thing, after all, they are just hobbyists and the money they make from donations is just pocket money. At the end, we, the end users who couldn't care less about the apache vs GPL debate, pick the one that best suits our needs and wants. Thor so far has proven to be the best and to give the best added value to our tabs. If other devs want to follow the same method of not sharing everything, that's their issue, not mine. I just care for taking the most out of my tab, I don't really mind if the credit will go to one dev or the other.
[Acer Iconia A500] armada786:
You seem to think that Thor can pick either the Apache license or the GPL and this has something to do with crediting Thor. Those choices were already made when he agreed to their term. EDIT: Also, there are plenty of end user that care. We care when people make ROMs and we care when the OEMs don't release kernel source. Your blanket statement is baffling to me.

HE MUST RELEASE THE SOURCE CODE TO HIS KERNEL OR HE IS BREAKING THE TERMS OF THE GPL, STEALING CODE, AND OPEN FOR ACTION AGAINST HIM IN A COURT OF LAW. He is legally in the wrong and violating the terms of XDA and continued offense will get him forced off. Rules are things that have to be followed all the time, not when you want or when it is convenient.

This isn't a choice. This isn't about "but someone will steal it". This isn't jealousy over good code. This isn't anything but doing the ONLY thing he is required to do that isn't the majority of his code. And he can't do it.

This is regardless of how he acts. If he is willing to break license agreements and XDA rules we don't need him here. He can leave. It's not like this is his job. As you said, he's a hobbyist. However, every person that agrees to the GPL must follow it's terms.
[Acer Iconia A500] Cactus42:
And if/when he leaves XDA for good we'll go to TegraOwners.com, same as we did when AdamG left because of all the idiots.

So who loses out?
[Acer Iconia A500] Entropy512:
You are already losing out due to his code theft. Cyanogen himself is working on Tab 10.1 porting, and the similarities between Tegra tablets are enough that with assistance from him, A500 owners could benefit from most of that expertise. However, Cyanogen respects the GPL and he's not going to cooperate at all with someone who is stealing code (and almost surely stole some of HIS code.)

And TegraOwners.com will eventually lose out when gpl-violations.org gets sent after them. It has happened before, it will happen again.
[Acer Iconia A500] bahurd:
It's obvious there are 2 sides to this argument. I don't have a side to pick other than I can see both sides. Sometimes there is no 'right' side.

I can say I am extremely gratefull to those devs who I have used mods and roms from. I have shown my gratefulness by making donations routinely to those I have benefited from and will continue to do so. For me, I will do this 'on' XDA and through another site if that is what I feel is needed.

Obviously, the argument isn't going to be resolved in this forum and I am pretty sure the person in question really isn't loosing much sleep. But... I can see the support on the other site mentioned as being straightforward, without any ridicule for the 'noobs' and rather quickly. At the end of the day, it's what his 'customers' want.

I'm not a lawyer. Just a dumb engineer. If you feel that strongly then take it up in a court of law. You all feel entitled to be judge/jury on the subject.

While you're at it, don't forget to go after the hardware manufacturers who aren't releasing source.

Maybe I missed something but I think Google themselves haven't released HC source have they? Again, I may be wrong so don't start flaming me.

Just my opinion....
[Acer Iconia A500] Qwallace70129:
HC source was released in the ICS tree....but who really cares about HC anymore???? FLAME ON!! In my Johnny Storm voice.....lmao

Sent from my 1.4 ghz ACS Ice Creamy Epic 4g
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
You're right, that's also a very important issue. It was totally unacceptable when Acer wouldn't release their kernel source - luckily they did eventually. In general manufacturers are getting better about that - HTC used to have a 90-day delay after the device was released, but they've dropped that policy now.

It kind of weakens our position though if we yell at hardware manufacturers who don't release their source, then turn round and support a guy who does the same thing.

It doesn't really matter who you are, stealing GPL code isn't cool.
[Acer Iconia A500] FloatingFatMan:
They have, but its irrelevant as the userspace (Honeycomb itself) isn't under the GPL, it's under the Apache license which doesn't require you to release your source.

It's only the kernel and some modules which are under GPL, and Google have always released those. The same things people want Thor to release, as per his legal requirement to do so.
[Acer Iconia A500] bahurd:
I would argue your position is already weakened by not going after, in an organized fashion, in a court of law, the manufacturers. Being 1/2 pregnant is still pregnant. If it's principal you argue then you have lost the argument.

Again, settle it in a court of law. You aren't going to settle it here. From what I see, the other person mentioned is working to his/her set of principals (assuming they feel their 'contribution' of code was wrongly used. Sorry, I can't use the word "stolen" because I don't think that word is valid in a truly open source environment, in my opinion).

My rant...

In the larger scheme, it seems to me the original intent of Linus Torvald has been circumvented by commercial interests for the benefit of commercial (money) interests. I.E. the 'license' terms/wording was rewritten to still allow it to be called "open source" yet the systems with any real benefit are sold by viable commercial companies who hide behind another licensing scheme.

No offense, all you need to do is look at some of the commercial software based on Linux to see this.

So, I guess my point is... I see your point and while I don't agree with the person's act I can understand why it was taken and respect it. My experience tells me most actions are taken for emotional reasons and then it becomes principal (which makes it hard to reverse).

Again, just my opinions.
[Acer Iconia A500] elborak:
And this really gets to the heart of the matter. Were it not for the GPL license used by the Linux kernel, I believe that no Android device manufacturers would have released the source to their kernels. Not HTC, not Motorola, not Acer, ... nobody. And without those kernel sources, where would the Android hacking community be?

To make "but he's a good dev, let's not risk annoying him" arguments is to take a temporary benefit (good dev releasing useful tools) at the cost of long term loss (nobody else can build on his work). Even if it weren't a license violation, it's a bad tradeoff.

I've contributed GPL'd code to the Linux kernel; my first contributions were over 15 years ago (somewhere in the 0.99 series). And I'm never in favor of people violating the GPL.
[Acer Iconia A500] themono:
Kind of an offtopic question here, but what did you contribute? I've got a lot of respect for the people who get patches into mainline.

Not to flame or anything, but do you know much about Torvalds? He has no problem with people building commercial products on top of the linux kernel, but at the same time does demand that their kernel source be open - I'd say it's working out pretty well for him really. Companies don't hide behind another licensing scheme for their kernel, they can't. That's why Acer had to release the A500 kernel source in the first place.
[Acer Iconia A500] elborak:
I authored several SCSI drivers. Nothing germane to Android.
[Acer Iconia A500] bahurd:
No offense taken, nor intended.

Other than following the Linux system since before V1 and the originator (him) not much....

[/QUOTE]He has no problem with people building commercial products on top of the linux kernel, but at the same time does demand that their kernel source be open - I'd say it's working out pretty well for him really. Companies don't hide behind another licensing scheme for their kernel, they can't. That's why Acer had to release the A500 kernel source in the first place.[/QUOTE]

His intention, if we can both surmise, was to develop an operating system that would be open to anyone for development and use without any company taking commercial ownership. Hence, the source being 'open'. Is that a fair summation? I don't know if his original intention was for the commercialization of any addons as 'closed source'. Nonetheless, it is what it's become.

Like I said earlier, the person in question is a dood developer who obviously doesn't need to publish his/her work on XDA. The end user will find it regardless because the internet acts to fill the vacume. The debate won't get resolved here.

It isn't a binary world when it comes to people and emotions.

But again, just my opinion. You don't need to agree.
[Acer Iconia A500] tomlogan1:
Too Thor or not to Thor

I really don't have a dog in this fight, but I feel badly for all the developers. These guys work very hard to provide improvements that we all have the opportunity to use for free. I am not a developer but I've been in this industry since all there was to use was a terminal to a central computer. Now we have guys that are so smart they aare off the charts and they care about offering their products and service for little or no compensation other than if someone wishes to donate.

I get it about rules and all that stuff, but just in the development section for Iconia there are dozens of ROMS and everybody thanked the developers for coming up with something better than stock. So it was never about competition, just someone offering to share thier work.

Personally I've used Thor's ROMS and he has been very courteous in answering my questions.

Use whatever ROM you want, but don't bash the developer.

Thank you, Thor, for all of your work.

Off my soapbox.
[Acer Iconia A500] Qwallace70129:
Bump..

Out of respect for Blazingwolf's thread.

Discuss Thor and his work here.... It's why it's here.
[Acer Iconia A500] macia10:
Hi

I've read somewhere that thors rom does not have CWM included so is it safe to install ICS? Because then there is a problem with restoring HC
[Acer Iconia A500] :
No Rom contains cwm. Cwm is a recovery feature. ;)
[Acer Iconia A500] trevh:
Aggregated ICS dev progress info

At last! .... Maybe this thread is close to what I've been searching for, even though lately most of the discussion is about gpl vs apache licence implications for the Open Source community. But I'm gonna subscribe to this thread for sure!

What I need is either a way for the XDA system or a human being to alert me when a "mostly" working port (ICS Port release candidate?) or Upgrade (for field testing) is available. I have 6 Android devices atm ((2 tablets - Iconia A500 and Transformer TF101) so if a beta release has problems on one of them, I'll still be able to stay in contact with the devs using any of the others.

Maybe a technical report whenever there's real progress for which I would pay, specially if it gets written up in somewhere like India where English skills are high, and the exchange rate is good (about 50 Rupees to the dollar atm!)

Find a few more customers like me, live in a place with low cost of living, and you've got yourself a viable business, it would seem.

Hint, I have "receive pm's" set up for xda.
[Acer Iconia A500] bahurd:
You're in luck!!!

My English skills are impecable, albeit American. Live in a resonably low cost of living place in the USA, compared to other places at least. And will take Rupees via PayPal!

What's on your mind? :D:eek:
[Acer Iconia A500] FloatingFatMan:
Wow... Lazy much?

But I'll bite. I'll gladly provide the information you seek in a timely fashion for the low low fee of $10 per word, payable in advance, minimum 200 words per PM. :p
[Acer Iconia A500] WereCatf:
Hardly. You are so far the only person I've seen that would actually pay for someone to inform him of ICS progress for A500, so unless you're willing to pay for the rent, taxes, electricity and such it isn't viable even by a long shot. Everyone else just subscribes to one or another thread and checks the general area every now and then.

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------

"impeccable"

*trollface*
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Bamba1260:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1358467

TrevE has been threatened by Carrier IQ for exposing their spyware.
[Epic 4G General] mykhal c:
hello all. noob here...but i ain't scared!!:D full disclosure...i probably eff'd up somewhere along the way in upgrading but after the upgrade i'm seeing issues where my display power settings don't seem to be applied. this is especially true when i'm on a call. the screen will go black after about 15 secs...my setting is set to 2 mins. is this normal behavior with this rom?? or is something hosed? thanks for any help;)
[Epic 4G General] flastnoles11:
If your talking about your display going off while you are on a call and putting the phone to your ear then it is supposed to do that. It is a proximity sensor in the phone and it does it so you don't accidently hit a button with your check while on the call.
[Epic 4G General] mykhal c:
appreciate the reply. well continuously muckin' with it seems to have things workin' as designed now...not sure what the issue was. and no ,this was happenin' when i was on a call usin' my bluetooth earpiece. i think the 2 min setting was somehow being seen as 15secs...computers!!??:D
[HTC EVO 3D] gunfromsako:
User drellisdee has forked over amon ra to several phones as well as updated the supersonic... He needs a tester for the EVO 3d. I do not have a pc, therefore I don't think I'm the best candidate for testing... I've used his forked recovery on my 4g and I love it and think it would be great on the 3d. You can find the thread here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1339654

Edit: usless post 100 la de da
[HTC EVO 3D] doeboy711:
I have already started a thread on this, see here. I have had a few bites, but no one to step up to be a tester. I haven't had time to mes with it since I was able to root mine on last Sunday night. I could possibly do it tomorrow when I get off of work, but if anyone could test it out tonight that would be great.
[HTC EVO 3D] gunfromsako:
Oops sorry ill head over there and give it a bump then. I would love if it would happen...
[HTC EVO 3D] luckylui:
Im willing to test right now! Running hboot 1.4, cleanrom 1.0

hTc 3D
[HTC EVO 3D] doeboy711:
PM drellisdee and try it out.I will do the same, but I won't be able to test till tomorrow morning sometime.
[HTC EVO 3D] AndroidFileHost:
Sign me.up!!
[HTC EVO 3D] doeboy711:
Check THIS post out for someone who wants to help test it out for the E3D
[Motorola Photon 4G] rrr1986:
Back to stock?

I flashed thru bootstrap rom on locked phone. I want to go back to stock. How do i go about this... something similar to ruu?

thanks in advance
[Motorola Photon 4G] rrr1986:
I flashed thru bootstrap rom on locked phone. I want to go back to stock. How do i go about this... something similar to ruu?

thanks in advance
[Motorola Photon 4G] bricky23:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1202666 Flash sbf with rsd lite. I believe that you will find links on 1128

Sent from my skinny mopho o/c and all.
[Motorola Photon 4G] MultiDev:
For future refernce, Motorola uses SBF's. HTC uses RUU's.
[General Questions and Answers] Kevhood123:
I have a motorolla milestone that i unlocked and rooted and now am running the latest version of CM7. I am on Rogers network.

The problem i am getting is that i cannot access my data network. I have tried to add an APN as the list is blank but when I try to hit add APN it doesnt do anything.

I tried backing up and restoring APN with an app, and have tried editing the telephoney.db database but still nothing shows up
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] newson15:
Sorry, sorry.

I put this in the general section, but I should have put it here....so here goes...

Is anyone else having LOW volume issues on the SHIFTAO5P IC3.2.1 rom? Mine is EXTREMELY low, even on speakerphone.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] heydockyle:
Mine is much quieter then it was on 2.8. I also have a problem where half of my apps in my market say they are not compatible with this device.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] newson15:
wow. All of my apps are working flawlessly. I'm gonna try flashing the rom again. I hope it works because this rom is blazing fast. I haven't had one bit of lag on it the entire day and I haven't even overclocked the kernel yet. It was looking really good until i notices this.

I'll let you know how it goes.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] heydockyle:
I had it kinda with 2.8 also. The apps themselves work because I restored them from Titanium, but I can't download them from market or update them.

And I did a full clean install and still have the sound problem. Not really a problem, just not nearly as loud or clear as it was on 2.8. Can tell the rom is a bit smoother and faster though once I took ICS off.