yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC EVO 3D] m0fizor:
@warrenb213: i didn't want to sound like a d*i*ck...

I just wanted to suggest something: why 4 teams with 4 different ROMs? Why not one team with the best ROM? All the ROMs have bugs. One has some bugs that are solved in the other one.

I am not asking for a working camera. I'm talking about vital bugs: call drops, overheat etc.

I'm also working as a developer (web developer) and i know very well how an imbecile client makes you want stop working.

Sorry for my bad English.
[HTC EVO 3D] christan:
+ 1...
[HTC EVO 3D] warrenb213:
:) well for good news, i can tell u that the build i'm running has no overheat, no call drops thus far, and operates 95% as it should. then again im using a slightly older kernel than the newest, so i'll audit the kernel when i get started.
[HTC EVO 3D] m0fizor:
Simple question: why not working with chad.goodman to make a proper kernel? He implements some modules, rom devs use other modules and that results in incompatibility.

I understand that he doesn't gives to full sources of he's kernels. But why not using his compiled kernels?

Some time ago i used to be a one-man dev: i was designing the page, i was coding the frontend and the backend. I didn't have the time to do them all. So, we are a team now: a designer, a frontend developer and a backend developer. Everyone with his role and goals.
[HTC EVO 3D] warrenb213:
That is much how copenhagen and I operate: he does mainly ROM front end, I do mainly Linux back end.

As for chad, you pretty much answered yourself: he doesn't give access to his source. With the ACA team especially, we are all about being open. While we do not release our full dev environment, we keep things that have been open source, open source. Because of our approach, in HD2 land we were able to set the bar for CM7 - **we got further than any other cm7 dev had, building from native source**. Additionally, our work was then used by the people porting CM9 to it. Also, because we didn't use other developers compiled kernels, we delivered the most stable kernels to the community. In fact, we were the first to port a 35 kernel to the HD2, which if you look at the forums, other dev's have now run with and back ported to 32.

Jumping into the fray here in Evo3D land, we had not worked with mdeejay or anyone else on much. We got CM7 compilable and mostly working, we plan on going back once we assist in getting CM9 going. In the end, ACA will be transformed from a simple CMx port team into a more advanced, customized series of CMx port. This is why, at least on our end, we see that there are currently 2+ different teams working on "the same thing."

You guys will, in the end, see a competitive approach to not only getting a baseline established, but also delivering the best "custom" builds in the end. I think most the Android dev's here will agree. Once things are at a baseline, I know that at least Cope and I will be taking a SCRUM-AGILE approach to getting things out to you.
[HTC EVO 3D] runkle6:
where can i download this rom?

links on 1st post are dead ... :(
[HTC EVO 3D] runkle6:
also these links are down.

can someone plz upload the rom somewhere??

i miss my "americanandroid" ... (coming from hd2)
[HTC EVO 3D] Kov3nant:
Wow! I ran american on my hd2 and absolutely loved it! So great to see you guys devvin for the 3vo!

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D
[HTC EVO 3D] chrisftlse:
+1 Americandroid for HD2 was my best ever experience with Android until my HD2 decides to jump from the table :p

Could you confirm that your rom will also be for GSM users ?

Then I will dream about it until testing :D

Good luck
[HTC EVO 3D] warrenb213:
Oh yes solely for gsm users for now. I may rerelease our cm7 build....it worked for the most part just had video and camera to fix. Could also release a cm9 build, however battery drains rather quick and camera is also ****ed. I need dev time, which is hard to find lately since school work and my life in general has been so busy. I keep finding myself playing catch up. In my spare time I have been envisioning a standardized aca theme.....think professional and elegant.

One thing I dislike about the evo is that the battery gets eaten in general for reasons I don't understand. The new 3.0.16 leak is good but I can never get the device to properly go into deep sleep.
[HTC EVO 3D] dalgibbard:
Yeah I dropped the links in favour of the newly available ICS ROMs- didn't see much point in mirroring not finished GB ROMs when there's something newer and shinier available. The mdeejay ICS builds are pretty sweet, with fully working 3D and camera it would seem...
[HTC EVO 3D] warrenb213:
We are coming baaaaAAcccck.

Just got the new 3.0.16 kernel configured. Gonna start testing boot and such later.
[HTC EVO 3D] chrisftlse:
Impatient to play with !!!

My Evo3D is smiling since I have read your come back :D
[HTC EVO 3D] runkle6:
yeah yeah, waiting for this since weeks.

using my hd2 americanandroid and not using my evo3d ...

until now its just a "gameboy" 4 my kidzz ...

aca evo 3d with 3d functionality??

greetz, oppen ...
[HTC EVO 3D] KrewsialNL:
Be patient, young jedi ;)
[HTC EVO 3D] chrisftlse:
Hi Warenb,

Still planned to cook an Americandroid ICS meal ;) ?

My device is starving lol

Please keep us informed once in a while.

Regards
[HTC EVO 3D] chrisftlse:
So whats new !

Dear Warrenb,

Have you already sold your Evo3D ?

Please provide something to feed our device :D

Youhou: New Kernel from Americandroid team means... A new cooked rom soon ...

Regards
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
okay so i had added the dnsproxy service line to the init.rc

i see from this commit

https://github.com/alanorth/android...d6b04150661f5ae1dd984e60d7fa1da866be#prebuilt

he's got it in the init.XdevicenameX.rc file

so I've moved it over on the git and am doing more digging.
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
did some major updates tonight... but still no boot. im starting to feel stalled.

I'm so close!!
[HTC EVO 3D] KimUyLong:
Just calm down, man :)

_ Love your project. It's really hard when begin. But it's will brilliant when success.
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
hey kernel guys..... would this kernel work for us?

https://github.com/toastcfh/htc-8660-kernel
[HTC EVO 3D] Ganii:
Hm,it`s for shooter Sprint not shooter_u GSM!
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
this i am aware ... but how much porting needs to be done to facilitate gsm?

progress update.

ive worked through the init bail out after the cyanogen banner (in terminal).

so now i can get past the htc screen and boot to the boot animation.

so .. again progress made... now i gotta figure out this netd issue.

kama do you have your kernel source on a git somewhere?
[HTC EVO 3D] kspsp:
i see this at end of post of kamma

kamma Kernel source : https://gitorious.org/htc-shooter-kernel

i have one question when i run extract-script (for proprietary lib) i have missing files (3.5 port)

it s rom or it's normal (ex libacdbloader.so;libacdbmapper.so)
[HTC EVO 3D] crypt0night:
Good found! will try to port the commits to our stock kernel next monday. Monday = my devday;)
[HTC EVO 3D] iamdata:
ive emailed this guy to BEG he can port it over to GSM

https://plus.google.com/113702637309752822154/posts?hl=en

afterall he made the apha on sensation and CDMA evo 3d.

source: http://androidcommunity.com/cyanogenmod-7-alpha-now-available-for-htc-sensation-and-evo-3d-20110912/

I will keep you updated if/when i hear back.
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
we are very close. the more work we do now the less they will have to do in their efforts to port it over.

all we need to be able to boot this is a working kernel & modules. i believe it has to support the msm8660 hardware platform and be aosp/gingerbread compatible. && built with gsm and not cdma in mind.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

once we have that.. i think we will be golden....

;)
[HTC EVO 3D] iamdata:
Is that AOSP kernel for ics which is in the threads any use to cm7 port?

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1365063﻿

[ROM/DEV] MDJ's IceCreamSandwich 4.0.1 Alpha1 [WIP]

Sent from my Evo 3D GSM...bring on the AOSP!!!
[HTC EVO 3D] detovenaar:
I do think so. its was DEV crypt0 that was saying that the work he was busy with was probably already done by MDJ.

I hope this will stimulate the work on CM and MIUI.
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
! Thankyou.. checking now.

Also.... Kama.......

Not sure this "directly" applies to us.. .but

when I compile your kernel and modules in with the build ... I run in to the same error discussed here.

http://code.google.com/p/openetna/issues/detail?id=146

"adb devices" shows it, as well as lsusb; adb shell returns this:

- exec '/system/bin/sh' failed: No such file or directory (2) -

a rapid search suggests this is because /system can't get mounted.

Make a backup before trying this as it wiped my userdata (another sign it actually boots...)

there is a posted commit and .patch for the kernel they were working on.. most likely different then ours.. even older platform.. but.. perhaps that link will shed some insite.

-cope
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
OMFG ITS BOOTING!

im soryr!@#!#

omgomoagmodasmgoam!!#$!#

okay so im gonna extract the modujles from that ics rom and replace the kernel and moduels in my git source and then ciompile and upload it for testingasd;flkjh

omg iom exvcited!#!

you have onom idea!#!#!@

OMAGOMAGOGMODGAMSODGMSDOG

MDJ!! AGAIN.. wins! now... WE get to win... GSM gingerbread on evo3d WE HAVE ARRIVED!
[HTC EVO 3D] pafimal:
At last great great news
[HTC EVO 3D] rahditzz:
How long till new upload? :)
[HTC EVO 3D] iamdata:
Cope what u got working in there? I guess its a successful boot. Any network or sound. Also much lagg?

Sent from my Evo 3D GSM...bring on the AOSP!!!
[HTC EVO 3D] detovenaar:
Yes Yes Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sooooooo nice to hear this news.
[HTC EVO 3D] markdexter:
Excellent News !! Cant wait to have Cyanogenmod on my Phone!!!

Good work guys!
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
darren. ;) ahahaha its like i updated the first post just in reponse to your questions ;) lol

laggy yes.

sound... not with my first compile. trying another.. will let you know.

network.. no.,. but the kernel/build.. not sure which yet is painfully trying to contact cdma networks.

more to come ;)
[HTC EVO 3D] dashrink:
Tillykke! (congratz)

Very nice work!
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
btw... this post ^^^ got us booting gb. (and mdj's work as well)

thanks darren. ;) thumbs up.

and kama, crypto etc...

everyone so far so good :)
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
wow this is great news!! can't wait! :D
[HTC EVO 3D] Exostenza:
Great work. Keep it up as we need as many people working on the GSM as we can get.
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
1. make sure you have a backup of your existing shiz.

2. consider this the "OMG IT BOOTED" version, better known as "very alpha"

not working:

audio

cellular service (this includes data)

probably some other stuff

and it's laggy.

3. if you have ANY questions what so ever about anythign I've just said.. this build is not for you. Infact.. as its so .. not ready its not really gonna be good for anyone. but... its here incase you want it. ;)

Evo3D GSM CyanogenMod 7.2 w/ mdj's aosp ics kernel.

http://www.multiupload.com/WGN04DLW8I

oh btw.. i like my lcd density whackin small... thats why the top bar is messed up.. another issue to solve once we get to it. 240 is default. (now read point 3 again above :))

enjoy & ttys

-cope
[HTC EVO 3D] :
LCD density can be changed in build.prop
[HTC EVO 3D] kspsp:
it's work :D

thank you i have mod the lcd density (in build.prop)

wifi work and usb

the top bar i have (notification don't clear)

big change on screen resolution between nexus one cm7

it's less laggy than ics alpha rom

thanks again m-deejay to for his kernel (and ics rom)
[HTC EVO 3D] iamdata:
Sweet. Good progress. Also as its monday its cryptos dev day... Hopefully this will be another step closer tonight. :-)

Sent from my Evo 3D GSM...bring on the AOSP!!!
[HTC EVO 3D] warrenb213:
from the looks of it mr copenhagen has the dpi (lcd density) set to an AmeriCanAndroid classic. ;)

once the work has been finished, this will all be under the ACA name. woot. maybe i'll get a gsm evo3d so i can join my canadian ;)
[HTC EVO 3D] crevlthe:
:O you guys came over from the HD2 forums as well! :D

great work with this rom - looks pretty functional already, just without the sound.

crevlthe
[HTC EVO 3D] iamdata:
Cm 9.2 alpha to port next... Just read its out for nexus s

Sent from my Evo 3D GSM...bring on the AOSP!!!
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
porting cm9 ics etc all will benefit from the cm7 work we are doing now... we have to start somewhere... :)

the issues we have left to solve are minor now compared to what was needed so far... so .. it shouldnt be long.. a couple of weeks max is my guess - to have a almost perfect build for our evo's.

gonna check and see if mdj has an updated kernel for us.

ttys

-cope
[HTC EVO 3D] JasonValentine:
That's a really good news Cope :)

Sent from my Shooter Beats powered HTC EVO 3D.
[HTC EVO 3D] Chewy11:
WOW gonna try this out! Thanks again!
[HTC EVO 3D] rahditzz:
Any news? :)
[HTC EVO 3D] HomerSp:
To fix hw acceleration you need libC2D2.so, libOpenVG.so and you need to add

/dev/kgsl-3d0 0666 root root
/dev/kgsl-2d0 0666 root root
/dev/kgsl-2d1 0666 root root

to the ramdisk's ueventd.rc.

EDIT: You can also rename ueventd.shooteru.rc to ueventd.shooter_u.rc.
[HTC EVO 3D] AmeriCanAndroid:
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

adding now!

thankyou!

im back .. have been a busy couple of days.

-cope
[HTC EVO 3D] detovenaar:
are you and Copenhagen one person? Just curiosity

Btw just had my old hd2 and tested ics and it's superior towards sense in all ways. It just super fast no differents from my evo 3d .

So just to have to ask this, when we have cm7.2 on our evo3d it's just a Mather of time when we have cm9 on the evo3d, and is this cm9 almost the same as ics?
[HTC EVO 3D] warrenb213:
That account is the one we use for our official threads.
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
uploading latest version ATM

okay so the hardware fixes posted above by HomerSp totally fixes the lag issues !

the build for perusal

http://www.multiupload.com/03W8ST1ARH

All that is left to fix:

GSM / DATA service &

Audio

Havnt got the latest evo gsm kernel from MDJ yet, but will get that in there tonight if I can.

2 issues remaining! OMG! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!

(thx HOMERSP! btw... we owe you for that one :)

-cope
[HTC EVO 3D] markdexter:
Great work Copenhagen!! Great stuff. cant wait, i love Cyanogen.

Definately feel a donation on the way!!!
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
This is amazing.... can't wait...!!
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
link'd that post a few back... its ready to dl :)|

im sorry its not perfect yet... but ill get it there... and then after that... ics dev time :)
[HTC EVO 3D] Ganii:
Maybe you can compare too with kernel/boot.img from my MIUI ROM.

Hardware acceleration working too,and audio!

But problems with GSM mobile network!

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1369526
[HTC EVO 3D] HomerSp:
To fix data, add this to your build.prop:

ro.ril.enable.garbage.filter=0
[HTC EVO 3D] Ganii:
You mean for mobile network too?
[HTC EVO 3D] HomerSp:
Yes, mobile network and hence also data.
[HTC EVO 3D] Ganii:
Sounds good,will try it ;)

---------- Post added at 01:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------

Hm,tried for MIUI ROM,first,mobile network is working,but if phone goes

to lockscreen,always airplane mode is turned on and mobile network

turns off. :confused:

Can`t deactivate airplane mode
[HTC EVO 3D] HomerSp:
MIUI probably does things differently then (since on cm mobile networks didn't work at all).
[HTC EVO 3D] kag8:
ganii i dont know if this helps, but i used to own a s2, and the miui builds suffered from similar aeroplane bugs, i think galnet fixed it after a loong time (bug existed for a month), and it was related to the phone switching between 2g/3g or something, not much help but maybe it triggers something in your brain that leads to a fix :)

EDIT: Also, does force closing dialler.apk or phone.apk cause mobile network to redetect? on the s2 it used to...rather than having to reboot
[HTC EVO 3D] Ganii:
At MIUI for some users mobile network works,for other users

it didn`t work.That`s confused.

Maybe kernel or libs problem.Don`t know at the moment!
[HTC EVO 3D] HomerSp:
Maybe you should move this discussion to the MIUI thread though ;)
[HTC EVO 3D] Ganii:
Bug exist for HTC Sensation to!

Maybe you can ask for the fix,how to solve this?

---------- Post added at 02:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 AM ----------

Yes,noticed this yesterday.After I manually force closing phone.apk

network works again,till it goes to lockscreen.Then airplane mode is

activated again.

But we should move to the miui thread ;)
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
homersp..... ! :) .... please check your pm's.

you are too good to be true :) hehe

adding this right now.

will compile and post.

:) THANKYOU
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
oh baby sounds tasty.
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
if this works... all we will have left to solve is audio.

as excited as you all are.... you have no idea ... I'm vibrating over here....

lol

can;t contain self mASEihasdlnfasldkfjh aG!

okay.. composure regained.
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
i dont think any of us can... we've been waitiing for ages. you'll be our hero!! :p:D
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
I was so excited I built a time machine to travel to the future to sample the rc version of this ....now that I'm back I can tell you its awesome.
[HTC EVO 3D] VladBelsky:
The 3D functions do not currently work in this ROM, am I correct?
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
Nope 3d is nfg
[HTC EVO 3D] prose072:
Nice thread, we need more info on the PG86300 model GSM x515 rogers:D
[HTC EVO 3D] VladBelsky:
What do you mean "nfg", not functioning good? No *ing good? I find the 3D feature very useful and not a gimmick. I think that it should be included in AOSP roms.
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
I meant that 3d is not gonna be coming to these aosp roms .....the 3d drivers are closed source
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
data / cellular network is working as per homersp's fix. :)

audio's not fixed on my end.. working on it now.. :) getting there..

i just did a test call to my house phone and although I had not audio.. it still worked!!

more to come
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
;)

<---------------------Rogers
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
i disagree.

http://twitter.com/toastcfh/status/109111143355785216
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
do you have a test build we could play with? :)
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
One time I don't mind being wrong lol
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
standby.. ill up the gsm data working one i compiled and flashed just before I posted about it...

there

http://www.multiupload.com/KY2X8GMKRS
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
thank you so much :d
[HTC EVO 3D] VladBelsky:
I think maek_it_happen has a point, because the post by toast was from August and I think he was referring to the phone itself, not the 3D function :(
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
I hope I'm wrong lol
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
i think we should worry about 3d later... for now... after many years of waiting, COPE HAS FINALLY PORTED CM7 for GSM!! ive been waiting for this moment so long.
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
i stil disagree lol

mostly cause i want it to work .lol..

i too hope he's wrong.. but only this one time :)

edit: but yes more important things to do first
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
Anything possible
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
Can I get a sample of this ROM ?

Edit: I found it
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
This rom is great ......cant wait for audio .....can i flash a gapps from another phones cyan thread or does it need to be evo specific ....also i noticed some of the lockscreens are not fittin to screen .......i love how i can add soft buttons to my taskbar and bring it to the bottom of the screen makes me feel like honeycomb......great work

Sent from my 3d Brick
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
Orientation not working ....

Sent from my 3d Brick
[HTC EVO 3D] :
Great news. Do you reckon this can be implemented into the gsm version of miui and cm7?
[HTC EVO 3D] hemelsw:
It boots amazingly fast! Really impressed, cant wait for the Final version!!
[HTC EVO 3D] mana88:
really really great :) everything works for me except of audio if this will work i promise you this will be my everyday rom!
[HTC EVO 3D] markdexter:
When you say audio doesn't work is that anything audio related
[HTC EVO 3D] mana88:
it is related to everything you can hear from your phone e.g. phoning or music

but i think he will fix this soon ;)
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
Does orientqtion work for you guys ....also my capacitive buttons dont dim

Sent from my 3d Brick
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
Also mutlitouch doesn't work properly, but I'm sure that'll get sorted out soon enough :)
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
got some form of sound working... (homersp's assistance)

will upload after compile
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
Yes

Sent from my 3d Brick
[HTC EVO 3D] danny6514:
Read the op
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
Yea it says sensors not tested ......and i didnt know what keypad leds meant ....

Sent from my 3d Brick
[HTC EVO 3D] mana88:
i think he ment the capacitive buttons like home or back but that issue is already known and not that important if they are illuminated or not
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
Can't wait for it :)
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
How's the build coming? Guessing you got more audio working? :D
[HTC EVO 3D] :
QUOTE=scott951;19963461]aosp kernel

lemme know if this fixes the multi touch issues: http://db.tt/UhC8OrwM[/QUOTE]

Cope. This is from the miui thread and Scott came up with the kernel to fix multitouch. Tested and it works
[HTC EVO 3D] copenhagen:
first off... thankyou!

second off: heres the latest compile with audio .. sort of fixed.. its too quiet.. etc. but this is all stuff to fix over the next little while.....

this should be the right build... i may have got it mixed up with an older one.. sorrry xmas party night.. booze.. late.. etc.. however.. i think this should be right..lol sorry

http://www.multiupload.com/7XW9U36DB0

if not let me know and ill do up a new one and not drink/goto a part inbetween making the build and releaseing it lololol!!!#

one step better then we were last time :)
[HTC EVO 3D] :
Will try when I get hone
[HTC EVO 3D] n3tcod3:
Is it normal that i can't add my Google Account? When try to add an new Account my Phone reboots.
[HTC EVO 3D] mana88:
hey sound works great for me :) but the only issue i noticed it that i had a reboot while i was phoning
[HTC EVO 3D] :
Cope. Tested the rom.

video not working. Hw decoding doesn't seem to work. I only get sound.

errm. When calling the screen doesn't dim. I think the sensors aren't working.

Audio working which is great.

ready to be used as a daily driver. Sort of

oh and auto rotate isn't working but thats not a big deal for me personally

And camera isn't working.

But like I said. Daily driver readyish :)

To make it reallly good I would focus on the MP decision file. 2Nd core coming in a bit much
[HTC EVO 3D] :
U need to get the gapps.

go to the cm7 website
[HTC EVO 3D] detovenaar:
Excellent work is what happening at this treat. Nice work from all who putting all the work in this project.

And to Copenhagen; thanx for mentioning updates on the Cyanogenmod treat.
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
I get ussd error when I try to make calls .....no sound works .... Seems buggier then the old one ....
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
He said he got some sounds working, not ALL. I know for sure the speaker is working over here! I can listen to music and hear ringtones now
[HTC EVO 3D] maek_it_happen:
The ussd error is voicemail problem ......im
[HTC EVO 3D] iamdata:
Bluetooth not working and agreed that the autorotate and does not work, aswell as camera. I think that these as all linked to the kernel.
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
Just wanted to say once again, great job cope for your hard work and dedication to this project. Glad to see the best ROM on this phone. :)

Btw how's the multi touch fix coming along? ;P
[HTC EVO 3D] n3tcod3:
I've loaded the battery to 100%. Now after 2 hours the battery is at 75%. Can it be that the battery indicator is wrong?

S-Off Powerd EVO 3D with CayogenMod7.2
[HTC EVO 3D] FaithCry:
I guess it depends on how much you've been using it? It's clocked at 1.5 by default which could also be a factor