yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] e.mote:
Thanks for the explanation. As apparent, I'm not a kernel hacker. I can't imagine, however, that the private key is tantamount to being a state secret as you implied. It may well be the case that B&N isn't aware of the implications of the locked bootloader, and it was done as a matter of process for "better security."

I don't think it's a big deal for B&N to lock or unlock, as Amazon would agree with its KF, and evidenced by the NC's unlock. While the privkey may preclude a hacking option, the solution may be as simple as someone getting an audience and having a heart-to-heart talk with the B&N CIO. Persuasion is just a subset of social engineering.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] boomn:
I can't remember which thread or even which forum I read this, but someone claimed that Netflix explicitly requires a signed bootloader as an additional level of content protection in order for a device to get the HD quality service from Netflix. The Kindle does not have Netflix HD and therefore has one less need for a signed bootloader. The KF doesn't have Netflix HD and Amazon's own streaming video service isn't HD on the Kindle Fire either, so unfortunately I can't imagine B&N giving up that marketing and feature advantage. B&N has definitely been pushing the HD advantage in their marketing
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Indirect:
I asked for a method to atleast unlock the bootloader safely. I dont care about HD streaming.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] e.mote:
Thanks for raising the Netflix HD certification issue. Secure content delivery would be a compelling reason for lockdown. If so, I can't fault B&N for going with a valid business decision. Having Netflix HD is more important than catering to a group of hackers.

It may well be that entropy512 is right, and we're plain SOL. I don't have a vested interest, but am looking forward to see how/if NT devs can make it work.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] acruxksa:
It would be unfortunate if Netflix HD streaming was what prompted B&N to lock the boot loader, especially when you consider the Nook Tablet only has a 1024x600 lcd.

Seems like a very plausible reason though.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] NickBoy98:
if that were true it really sucks for me!... i plan on getting mine in australia and i can't get netflix over there (well i can but i cbf using a vpn for anything more than buying books)

---------- Post added at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------

also with the whole netflix thing... couldn't barnes and noble release a tool that will unlock the boot-loader... and completely break netflix support... as i am australian... i don't really care if i lose netflix and i'm sure others would be happy to sacrifice netflix so that they can have an unlocked bootloader to install cyangogenmod 9 (when it is released)
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Surgent:
I dunno about this because to be fair, we shouldnt even have these as B&N are not even technically selling these to us, fellow Aussie here ^_^
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] JoeM01:
gonna have to agree here. while I hope/look forward to a workaround, i'm very pleased with the current status of my $250 device. compared to how it was out of the box, its night and day.

still, I'm gonna sit tight and see how things unfold. but I have no intention of getting rid of my NT. it does precisely what i want it to do.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Elddric:
I have yet to get a NT... Its interesting to watch all the XDA Devs work.. I will be getting one eventually though!
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Entropy512:
If they crippled their device for Netflix HD streaming (almost NOTHING on Netflix is available in HD), then that's a stupid move on their part.

Actually as it is, there's plenty of evidence of stupid moves - Advertising 16GB storage, then crippling it to 1GB for sideloads when "B&N Content" is limited to books and apps (neither of these are storage-hungry) is STUPID.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] diamond_lover:
Worse than NC...

Holy words.

Barnes & Noble has lost all the ground gained by the Nook Color last year...

Damn it's really hard worse something great.. Congrats B&N.​
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] ylexot:
I could actually see kids books being storage hungry if people make use of the capability where it records someone reading the book. Magazines and comics can also be large. However, they shouldn't have split the storage at all, IMHO.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] AugustusBot:
Is it possible / probable that B&N will one day send out an update which updates their kernel/entire OS to ICS?

At that point if you root it & get a custom launcher on there, do you even need to deal with all the bootloader things?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] silentheero:
Unfortunately, they wanted a fork of android, so I doubt that they will reincorporate it into mainstream ICS. Maybe a modified fork of ICS, B&N flavored, but not straight ICS.

Also, we want to tweak and hack every part of a gadget we buy, and everyone will want something different then what B&N would release. We want to take it and make it our own, changing it and creating things that were not even dreamed of by B&N, so making it open would benefit the community.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] rmm200:
It is certainly possible that one day B&N will push out a free upgrade to ICS.

It is also possible I will get struck by lightning the next time I walk out my front door.

At the moment, lightning has the edge.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] NickBoy98:
sorry, but GIGGITY GIGGITY GOO!
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] e.mote:
>If they crippled their device for Netflix HD streaming (almost NOTHING on Netflix is available in HD), then that's a stupid move on their part.

In marketing, perception trumps reality. And it's a compelling marketing pitch: You have a HD tablet, then you should be able to watch HD movies.

Granted, the NT isn't quite HD, and video streaming is still in its infancy with little content. But one has to assume that there'll be more HD content available.

Extrapolating, since Netflix would be on the buying checklist for many, this locked bootloader deal may end up being a "feature" on many future tablets.

I think what B&N is doing is correct and proper. It needs content to compete with Amazon, especially video content. This said, even though I don't have Netflix. Heck, I don't even have a TV.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] boomn:
This news article pretty much confirms it

---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------

:(

you just made this community's future sound so dark
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] rmm200:
Just to add another thought - it is a sure thing that other manufacturers are watching these forums to see how effective a locked bootloader is - and what additional steps they need to take.

In that sense we are all contributing to future tablet security. Grats us!
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] e.mote:
>you just made this community's future sound so dark

A techie's options shouldn't be dependent on vendor goodwill. It's a big world with many possibilities. If nothing else, there's always Win8 with user-installable OS, right?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] anlog:
I tested out Netflix yesterday on the Nook and there is a lot of HD content available - especially TV shows. It runs beautifully on the Nook and I would rather keep Netflix than have an unlocked bootloader.

At this point in time I'm 100% satisted with my rooted NT the way it is, with all of my apps, Market access, Kindle, Netflix, etc.

The adoption rate of ICS will be VERY low for the next 12 months, since most phones are sold around Christmas and there aren't going to be many ICS phones out before the end of the year.

B&N is well aware of the hackability and developer community that made the Nook Color what it was. However, they lose money on each hardware sale, and creating a tablet that people will buy, hack, and never use to purchase B&N content is nothing more than a loss for them. Throw in the Netflix thing, and it's a done deal - I doubt they will ever voluntarily unlock the bootloader. Business is business.

There are going to be a tons of ICS tablets released next year that will put the NT to shame, so if you aren't satisfied with the way the NT is out of the box, you might want to shop around for a different tablet.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] nigel_ht:
I think I'm in the same boat (waiting on the NT tho') as long as rooting and sideloading remains. I'm also thinking that the large block of reserved flash is for more HD (or even SD) content from content providers that will likely demand a locked bootloader/DRM chain as well.

B&N has to know that Amazon provided content is their 2nd biggest problem (the first being name recognition/brand vs Amazon). Perhaps B&N is busily trying to get additional content for the NT.

Netflix is all very well but if I can rent/buy Disney via Amazon but not the NT...its an ecosystem war and B&N is running a distant third to iTunes and Amazon with a lot less leverage with content producers than Amazon or Apple.

True as well. I wonder how many will hit the $199/$249 price point though with the same quality screens as KF and NT.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Nuenjin:
Next year there will be more tablets to choose from and we will have this conversation again with different names. I saw where someone said they would take HD over root. Maybe that is who B&N is marketing to. They are trying to give the appearance to access to everything we could want; internet, video and apps; but they can't actually give us everything without losing money just selling us the hardware.

I appreciate that they might be breaking even or selling the devices at a loss, but their marketing dept came up with the "tablet" name. They could have decided not to try to compete directly with Amazon.

They can't have it both ways. I for one do not mind waiting one more year for a good deal on a tablet that is not locked. And you have to know that at some point there will be a Nexus tablet.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] anlog:
I think going forward the vast majority of new tablets will have locked bootloaders, so people will try new and creative ways to get the keys. The dev community is the 1%, so we don't have enough pull to make demands.

Netflix does have some Disney movies, and you can get Amazon Video on the Nook Tablet as well. B&N took extra steps to protect the NT, and I'm sure heads are gonna roll now that we have root.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] KCKitsune:
I don't think that a "vast majority of tablets" are going to have locked bootloaders. If anything since those tablets will not be locked into any specific ecosystem, they'll be more open.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] jerrykur:
Hopefully manufactures will provide an out such as downloading a kit that unlocks the device but requires you to acknowledge that you are voiding the warranty.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Nuenjin:
Even if a locked bootloader becomes the norm, it will still be a full android experience and not an "android fork" that is ultimately a dead end for us in terms of experience.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] anlog:
I you want Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc, it will be locked. The content providers are holding their ground on this.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Nuenjin:
I understand what you mean and I tend to agree in principal.

A subscription is required for all three services you mentioned. With Amazon's obviously not designed for devices other than the kindle.

But how do you scam a company out of streaming service? The bottom line is that I am paying for content at the source.

Unless in this case, B&N is getting a kickback from whichever service gets run on their devices. But I would run netflix on a rooted and rom'ed nook, so they would still get their money.

I know it sounds like I'm rambling but I'm just going through my line of reasoning. I just can't see how limiting content leads to locking bootloaders.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] PlacidCat:
Unlocked boot loader = custom ROMs. Custom ROMs opens the door for a whole host of ways of hijacking code that might ordinarily be protected allowing pirating of higher-quality streams. My guess is that Netflix is willing to allow lower-quality streams on devices that are unlocked, tempting makers of devices by offering "HD" (not really) streams if they lock the boot loader, consequently allowing greater protection for their higher quality content.

You must remember, Netflix only recently became available on Android devices, and then only on specific devices (still don't have it on my Vibrant) because of concerns over Android's looser content management. The iPhone provided all sorts of protections built-in which is why Netflix came there first. (One would have thought Android to be the top choice because at the time it was surpassing iPhone sales due to the wide proliferation of Android devices but DRM rules the world.) I'm not at all surprised this happened and we are not about to convince Netflix that we are all honest enough to pay for all the content when they know that for every one of us "good guys" there are several pirates just waiting in the shadows...

That said, giving people the option to "downgrade" their quality in place of an unlocked boot loader would be nice...
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] acruxksa:
I'm betting B&N isn't losing nearly as much money on these tablets as people think they are. The latest cost breakdown on amazons KF shows it only costs them $202 to make. Yes there are development costs, but there are also savings later in the products life that make them even cheaper. I wouldn't at all be surprised to find that B&N is breaking even on the NT.

Currently Netflix is struggling, so they're kind of at the mercy of content providers and i'm betting they were forced to require the locked bootloader to keep HD content. You can expect these same content providers to make the same demands of other streaming services as well.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Nuenjin:
Ok Placidcat, I guess I don't know all the ins and outs of streaming protected content.

I used to keep up with such things but not for several years. For me, it's easier to color inside the lines on this one.

Do you have any links that can help me catch up on how the pirate work in relation to streaming video. I have no intention of becoming one, I just want to wrap my head around it.

Thanks
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] CapsLockKey:
You can get Netflix and Hulu right from the Android market. They are hardly exclusive to any particular tablet/phone. They make their money from subscriptions and want as big of an exposure as they can get.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] darkquota:
I think he means HD netflix. It seems like there are a ton of restrictions on HD content these days (for instance, newer ps3s can't display bluray movies in HD over component anymore).
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] e.mote:
AFAIK, the NT is the only actual Android device with Netflix HD. The Xoom 2 and Droid Razr (both OMAP4) have it in their specs, but they aren't out yet.

Honestly, if I were B&N PR, I'd seriously be beating on the drums for this Netflix HD thing.. THE NOOK TABLET IS THE ONLY ANDROID DEVICE IN THE WORLD TO SHOW NETFLIX IN GLORIOUS (almost)HD RESOLUTION! SUCK IT AMAZON!

BTW, OMAP4's Netflix HD cert is presently only for 2.3, although one assumes that ICS will be included some time next year.

Funny that while most consumers would be looking to Netflix HD as a checklist item, I'll be looking at it as something to avoid.

NETFLIX HD? EEEEEEEK!! OMAP4?? NOOOOOO...

One may recall there've been a number of "trusted computing" initiatives on the x86, but none ever got far because of market inertia. Tablets are a brand new ballgame, and I'm sure content providers are ready with the ball-and-chains.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] tamasrepus:
The funny bit… Netflix's profits for the year are gone, their streaming library has shrunk more than it's grown, and they've pissed away most if not all of their customers' good will. I don't think they will be anything but a shadow of themselves in a year's time.

Here's to Nook Tablet+1 having an unlocked bootloader again. That is, until Netflix+1 comes along.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] e.mote:
We shouldn't wish Netflix ill will. It's not their fault. It's not B&N's fault. It's not the content providers' fault. Everybody is acting in his self-interest.

We're acting in our self-interest, which is finding a good, cheap tablet that we can repurpose. Whether the NT fits or not is on us. We shouldn't blame others because we don't get what we want.

I'm still hoping that the devs here can figure out a way.

Happy Thanksgiving.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] KCKitsune:
Actually, e.mote, I DO blame Netflix for their screw up. They didn't do a customer survey to ask them about their price increase. They could have easily avoided all this by asking some of their customers: "Hey guys, here's the situation..." <insert explanation on why the change in pricing structure> "What do you think would be the fairest price structure for you, our loyal customers?"

You know what most people would have done... they would have thought: "Hey those guys at Netflix are really good guys. They're not trying to milk me dry."

Nope... Netflix thought they were bulletproof and thought the customer would suck it up. News Flash: Customers are not chumps! They don't like being taken to the cleaners.

Now on to B&N: They should have an unlocked boot loader and make a HUGE disclaimer: "You root this and you void the warranty. Also, if you root this device, Netflix HD will not work."

For a vast majority of people, that would be fine, they don't root devices and like playing with "Geek" things. For us computer enthusiasts, it's a whole different ballgame.

Well, the tablet market is going to explode with tablets soon, B&N could have been in on the ground floor with a whole lot of good press and a band of loyal modders talking up their device. Now... they'll be lucky to recover from this debacle.

You took e.mote! Just make sure you don't eat too much... oh, who am I trying to kid, nom away! :p :D
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] ylexot:
Eh...I don't see the point in Netflix HD on a device that can't really display 720p. I'd be fine with standard Netflix and an unlocked bootloader.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] zambien:
Agreed. There is good progress being made and if the first thing people see is bad/worse news it sets an inaccurate tone.

Mods, what do you think about renaming or closing the thread?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] scratchfury:
SD is 480p and has 345,600 pixels. HD is 720p and has 921,600 pixel. The NT can display 614,400 pixels. So while the NT can't display all the pixels, it does make a noticeable difference in picture quality.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] PlacidCat:
Sorry, I was in a Thanksgiving-induced stupor so I didn't see this until now.

Just did a Google for "record streaming video". Granted, this is for the PC, the concept is sound:

http://www.riptiger.com/

There are loads of apps out there to take a stream and either simply save the decrypted content to storage or to re-encode on the fly. The latter seems unlikely - I don't see how the NT has the horespower to re-encode things on the fly.

Do I think it's likely pirates could use an unlocked Android tablet to pirate "HD" Netflix content? No. Do I think the content distributors are completely, insanely paranoid about their content being stolen? Yes.

I also see many people assuming Netflix's "HD" streams are actually 720p. From my experience, very doubtful. The "HD" streams are simply higher definition than their normal streams (hence my quotes around the term). When I had Netflix (emphasis on "had") I ran it on my 720p set using an Xbox 360. There were commands to allow you to show the video fullscreen (scaled) or at actual resolution (unscaled). If my memory serves me correctly, standard streams on Netflix took up a very small portion of the screen (quite low res, actually). While their "HD" content was better, it still didn't come close to completely filling my 720p screen. People are free to correct me on this - I dropped Netflix over 6 months ago.

Edit:

Here's another link specifically aimed at capturing Netflix content:

http://audials.com/en/how_to_record_stream_capture_music_videos_movies_from/netflix.html

Again, the likelihood of a tablet owner being able to do this is about nil. That said, copyright holders don't see the subtleties of processor power, hardware specs, and the like: they see an unlocked tablet as the wild wild West and freak out. Honestly, the real danger is on a PC - locking down a tablet to stop people from stealing Netflix streams seems silly.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] tamasrepus:
Everyone in this thread is assuming that an unlocked bootloader means people could pirate their Netflix HD streams… but what does an unlocked bootloader have to do with it?

The NT has root. I.e. you can do almost anything on the device (including pirate your Netflix HD streams), and B&N/Netflix/whomever's apps won't know any better.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Drewmungus:
The big thing that content providers forget is nomatter how locked down they are, a screen capture app will record any thing regardless of drm. If people really want to pirate something they are going to torrent it or rent it from redbox and rip it. I pay netflix and hulu every month so I didn't have to do that bull**** anymore. I wish netflix would grow up stop this drm cap and finally put netflix on linux too. End rant.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] andTab:
It is fascinating how everybody ignores this guy, while the sheeple fawn over the troll claiming to success ... for getting kexec tools compiled.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] zanderman112:
His post was an "if this is right, then..." kind of post. Not a definite. Rest assured it didn't go unnoticed.

Sent from my Samsung Legendary 4G, a Universe UTES phone, running "two.three.five"
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] xdahgary:
Can we move on? We know it's too early to be optimistic.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] wontstoptalking:
I dunno, it just seems to me that, however hard it may seem now, it WILL happen.

It's several hundred enthusiasts vs one little tablet. I know I'm being optimistic, but I refuse to believe that in three months this device won't be wide open to everything. I'm actually really excited to find out how they will pull it off (if they ever do...and I foolishly believe they will).

There's simply no way to lock down hardware. It's been out a few days. As impossible as it seems now, given time, it will come around.

If it doesn't... well, darn. But I feel that it will.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] ylixir:
quote for truth