yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] DeanGibson:
Rethinking the Nook Tablet

2011-03-19: Bought Nook Color (now running 1.3 rooted)

2011-11-16: Bought Nook Tablet (1.4 rooted)

2011-11-23: Bought Acer A500 (3.2 stock)

I bought the NC because as stock, it met my needs to display FAA instrument charts (including large PDFs like http://web.airmen.aero/terps/.raw/2011-11-17/enroute/ENR_L34.pdf ). However, I prefer a device that is not special purpose, and the unrooted Nooks are pretty limiting. In addition, how someone (eg, B&N) could take a reasonable, working eMail client and totally screw up the UI, is beyond me (eg, the IMAP folder list is unsorted and folder names aretruncated). Then there's the "Gallery" app, which has no concept of folders (duh), not to mention the missing Calendar app, etc, etc.

The Android Market solves these problems, which require rooting on the Nooks (but not the A500). As soon as a device can't have the Android Market (or the less-desirable Amazon Market), its utility drops significantly, and not just for geeks.

I bought the NT because its battery life is significantly longer than the NC, and the speed improvement is a real help in scrolling/zooming the above PDFs. However, the lack of fixes to the long-standing and reported issues with eMail and the Gallery, combined with the obvious lock-down development direction from B&N, gives me great pause. Since I only had a week left to return the NT (if I so decided), I bought the Acer A500 (based on a friend's recommendation) from Costco. Even though I have 90 days to return the A500, that isn't going to happen (unless it breaks); it's nice to have all the apps working without screwing around, or worrying that the next OS update will break something.

I'd like to keep one Nook for backup. So, I need to decide in four days which Nook to return or sell (if any; the selling price of a used NC isn't going to drop much in the near future).

It's too bad that B&N has taken the direction they have; in five years we'll all be laughing at the choices we've made here (right or wrong). I have a mind to return the Nook Tablet, not only to recover the money, but to send a message to B&N. There's an old saying: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] CheapGuy:
patience

Like someone mentioned above, the has only been out a few weeks and a lot of progress has already been made on modding the NT (sideloading, rooting). Yes, there are issues with the OS and associated software but the main thing is that the main hardware (with the exception of the speaker) is sound. Without a good screen and battery, no matter what OS is on a device, its primary usefulness is limited. Software is obviously much easier to fix and there are a lot of folks who have the smarts, time and desire to work on these issues.

In the meantime, with the fixes mentioned above, I'm using my NT a lot more than my other "true" tab.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] DeanGibson:
Boot from SDcard???

Could you be a bit more specific about the steps to make a bootable SDcard for the NT? If I understand you correctly:

Partition an SDcard with the same partitioning (0p1 thru 0p8) as exists on the NC.

To that card, copy MLO, u-boot, and boot.img to the boot partition (0p1) of the SDcard (or perhaps copy all of /boot?).

Rename boot.img to factory-boot.img on the SDcard.

Presumably, copy over /rom, /recovery, /system, /data, /cache, and /media over to the SDcard as well.

If that works, I'd think we'd have a permanent way to root future B&N updates to the NT:

Root the new SDcard just like we can on the device.

Whenever there's a new B&N release, boot the SDcard and:

Mount the /system partition on the device as rw.

Copy over GApps and su.

Or am I missing something??? Is there an issue with getting the ramdisk (signed???) to refer to the SDcard slot rather than the internal flash?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] boomn:
Makes sense to me. All you need in case of future changes is a way to boot and get su onto the system. A pre-rooted copy of their system running on the SD card would do that unless I'm mistaken
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] pokey9000:
The partition format isn't in the partitioning, it's in the geometry of the partition table. This is required by the OMAP to be readable as a boot disk.

In case someone wants to try this:

Get any one of the many SD images for the Nook Color that you have to write with "dd" or win32DiskImager. uNooter or the like will work. *OR* follow the instructions in the section here for fdisk on Linux to generate a bootable partition table and first FAT partition

From a rooted Tablet, mount /dev/mmcblk0p7 and pull out factory.zip. Unpack it, and copy out MLO_es2.3_BN, u-boot.bin, and boot.img

Rename MLO_es2.3_BN to MLO

Use any fastboot image splitter (I use split_bootimg.pl) to split boot.img into a kernel and ramdisk

Copy the kernel to uImage and ramdisk to uRamdisk

Copy MLO, u-boot, uImage, and uRamdisk to the card's FAT partition

Put the card in and boot

Nothing will appear to happen because it's booting the same kernel/ramdisk you're used to running. But remove or modify any of the files besides MLO and the boot will hang.

The ramdisk is signed and defines what gets mounted where.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] danvee:
So, basically, all we need is a copy of the SD card that B&N techs would use to "repair" a NT, as that should give the needed files. partitions, etc?

Anyone know a cooperative soon-to-be ex-B&N employee?:p

I'm going to start exploring THAT avenue...
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] DeanGibson:
Test almost works ...

Yes, I can create an SDcard that "boots" the MLO and (apparently) the u-boot.bin, and hangs without the kernel or ramdisk. However, your instructions for extracting the kernel & ramdisk don't quite work:

split_bootimg.pl is no longer available (at least the link http://android-dls.com/files/linux/split_bootimg.zip is dead).

So, I used the instructions at that site to split out uRamdisk, and gunzipped it, and the ramdisk contents are there.

However, I don't think I've got a proper kernel image. I've tried stripping 0 bytes, 2K bytes, and 4K bytes from the first portion of the split, and all of those supposed kernel uImages hang during booting. From poking around, I have a sneaking suspicion that perhaps the kernel self-extracts (gunzips)???

Of course, my familiarity as to what is going during booting the Nook Tablet is limited. (Oh, for the days of the simple Nook Color partition/file structure !!!)

I was just experimenting, as I deem the probability of ultimate success as very low. However, one doesn't succeed if one doesn't try ...
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] pokey9000:
The first 120h bytes of each is the M-shield signature.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] DeanGibson:
Exact image doesn't boot from SDcard
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] soy.lor.n:
Objective: Get a job at B&N and then immediately lose it.

Seriously though if all the information the devs need is on that little card...I can't imagine it'll stay secret for THAT long...
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] rhester72:
What makes anyone think it is? It'll have signed boot code just like the EMMC, but certainly no key! If anything, it's less useful than what we already have.

Rodney
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] danvee:
I considered that:D'

It may not be ALL the info the devs need, but it could eleminate a LOT of guesswork.

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 PM ----------

But, Rodney, if we have the signed boot code, can't we (meaning the devs who are incredibly great at these things and those of us who try to "break" their fine work:o) then "adapt" the code to boot a hardware-compatible OS from the uSD (CM7/9 if/when ported to the NT)?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] PlacidCat:
Let me give this a jab. If I recall ANYTHING from my comp. sci. days in college about signing certificates, archives, etc., is that it is generally done with a private/public key combo. In this case, a boot image is "signed" by having selected elements encrypted using one of several PRIVATE keys. The "signed" archive can then be validated by attempting to decrypt it using one of several PUBLIC keys.

The genius of this method is that you can leak the public keys (hence the name "public") without fear of exposing the private keys.

SO, stealing some poor B&N employee's micro SD will get you... a signed boot loader with maybe some public keys. Nothing more. Sure, you can expand the content using a public key but it will DO YOU NO GOOD unless you can RE-ENCRYPT using the PRIVATE key.

Please, people, this stuff is nothing new and is extremely secure. It would take a distributed grid of many computers months or years to get the appropriate private key for an archive.

If my recollection of signed content is flawed, please feel free to rip me a new one, but I seriously doubt this is much different than the SSL certificates I see floating this way and that during my day job sitting in front of a computer plugging code.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] boomn:
Sounds correct to me. The signature on these boot images is a hash key of the image that is encrypted with the private key. The bootloader (or anyone with a public key) decrypt the hash and verify that the file it is attached to has not been altered in any way. The image itself doesn't need to be encrypted, only the has that can be used to verify the integrity of the image. Without the private key to correctly encrypt a different hash key you can't alter the image and still get the bootloader to accept it
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] sonicdh:
If only we (and by "we" I mean you fantastic devs. I'm but a lowly arts major) could find a collision with the public key, but that's EXTREMELY unlikely.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] quid246:
They key is probably alot longer than an MD5... so collision is probably out of the question.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] DeanGibson:
Advantage

The advantage of a bootable SDcard on the NT, is that:

It's a FIXED/known quantity, untroubled by remote updates.

If it can be rooted (almost certainly, since it probably can be mounted from a rooted NT and side-rooted), then in turn it can be booted and used to root NTs that have been updated by B&N to remove the rooting hole on the device.

You are probably still stuck with running B&N NT releases, but at least you should be able to root each one of them.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Drewmungus:
Has anybody looked into bootstraping or Safe strapping like the motors use with our processor?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] deyna:
quote you i shall

it happened about 4 days after you posted this. Xb

blackberry fixed it in an update but the latest news i have says that it was rooted again shortly there after. in life there are few (if any) absolutes. XD
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] soy.lor.n:
Ah yes... I remember that too... and that kind of thing is why I used the word "if" previously
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] PIYIRIO:
Or the ultimate irony: Rent time on Amazons supercomputer rental service.

I love my Color but didn't research the Tablet, its sad seeing the bootloader locked and dev's leave. CM7 is still running on the D2 and DX. The install was much quirkier but it runs just as well as on my Incredible and Color.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Indirect:
Who says devs have left? They're just quietly waiting on an unlock solution to the device.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] MoFoQ:
shoot....I'm more than willing to "donate" cpu time on my box at the data center to help with this.

or perhaps...an autopsy of a NT (and use of an analyzer) might be needed to extract the needed info.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] galaxy76:
can someone help me? I get this error. how come?

the usb cable is ok.

http://s10.postimg.org/uenknlnu1/errno_121.jpg
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Ellerbestyle:
Hmm was today the day to get your preorder then? I guess I will have to wait till Friday to play with one.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] zanderman112:
I really hope this gets rooted quickly, or I'll have to look elsewhere :/
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] apascual89:
The Barnes and Noble stores had them in and decided to start selling early.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] SikYou:
The KF has root but it breaks amazon content streaming so it's not perfect.... yet

Sent from my ADR6400L
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] dharr18:
Just a dumb idea, but have you tried formatting the sdcard from the nook? Just wondering if that would sign the card.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] RussianMenace:
Unfortunately, it's not quite that easy. :(
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] diamond_lover:
By the way, is adb working? Using this method you should connect, ryt?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Entropy512:
Hmm, after looking at the OMAP4430 TRM (Any better links than http://nishanthmenon.blogspot.com/2010/08/public-omap4-trm-released.html ? - I'll look tonight, I don't remember ever seeing that on TI's site directly), things may not be as bad as they seem.

In section 27.4.8.2, it looks like there are a lot of reasons for requiring a CH other than code signing.

So this may not be a case of "No signed code? GTFO!" but more of "I am stupid, please hold my hand!" - e.g. we need a valid CH with clock/memory/etc settings.

This might be extractable from wherever the device initially boots from...
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] rmm200:
That TI document is a lovey resource. It covers - in detail - how to parse MBR and FAT file structures. Tempted to print out those sections and save them.

Robert
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] diamond_lover:
@Pokey9000: We have source codes now, please try check U-Boot and x-loader folders, maybe you can modify and compile to boot from scdard :rolleyes:
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Entropy512:
I don't have a device yet, but have you tried aboot.ift instead of aboot.bin?

http://nishanthmenon.blogspot.com/2009/05/configuration-header-no-more-x-loader.html

Some more on CH...

---------- Post added at 08:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 AM ----------

Hmm the more I read this manual in detail the worse things look... :(

---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------

Yeah, starting to agree - the results you're getting seem to indicate a locked device.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] RussianMenace:
Sigh, you're killing me here smalls...lol. Well...T - 13 days 3 hours. :rolleyes:

Here's to hoping...and waiting.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] boomn:
I noticed that x-loader is in the NT source code package and that page says using a CH would allow them to skip x-loader. Maybe they still needed x-loader for alternate boot scenarios and it isn't another bad sign though? I'm still trying to learn this stuff too to help figure it out, so please take my words with a dose of healthy skepticism

---------- Post added at 07:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 AM ----------

Thinking about it more from what I understand of that last link, loading the same image should still be possible if it doesn't have a CH it would just take a different path, so they must be using a CH for some other configuration (or it really is signed)
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Entropy512:
From what I can tell after more reading, on an unlocked device, the CH should be optional or simply not even allowed - after more reading it's never required if I'm reading correctly.

The problem is that documentation on M-Shield is sparse - almost nothing about it in the TRM. However there's mounting evidence that M-Shield is active and the device is locked.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] azshorty2003:
Pretty upset about what I'm reading. The NT was my only choice. With no micro SD port, I have no desire for the Fire.

Love my NC and this was the next logical step. Hope things pan out.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] bigtailwolf:
I have a small question, what does "CH" mean? Thx
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] beatlesfan01:
So things aren't looking too good right now for root\roms?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Entropy512:
Configuration Header (see the TRM linked to earlier for details...)

It's a method for setting up clocks, etc. prior to booting a device.

It's moot... It turns out it's mostly independent of M-Shield (TI's signed bootloader technology) being active - and the more evidence we get, the more it looks like M-Shield is active.

So the Nook Tablet is Tivoized.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] boxerfangg:
Does this mean none of this:

cjix.info/blog/misc/how-rooting-works-a-technical-explanation-of-the-android-rooting-process/

would work? Android devices and rooting in general are new to me.

If we got root access in android would be able to replace the recovery image and install a custom ROM?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Loglud:
I think i might have a solution to your problem here. You are trying to boot by sending the command 0xF0030002 which is not the command to overwrite the boot list, thats the command to start the boot sequence. Id be curious what you think by looking at TABLE 27-20. Booting Messages in the TRM. There might be something too this, but this is only me reading through the TRM. I do not have the device in hand, but i am going to purchase one for S&G.

Update: On some more assessment I looked at the usbboot source, and it is trying to issue 0xF0030002 as the command to boot from usb, this is not the command for usb, 0xF00304506 or 0xF00304506 are the boots for usb. If some one who has the ability to could check and recompile the C source and run it with the boot.bin that would be great.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] DarkDvr:
So it's either a weakling KF that doesn't have sh*t for memory or RAM... or locked NT..

Didn't some moto devices had a locked bootloader as well, and were hacked eventually? First with temp-root then with perma-root?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] beatlesfan01:
There's gotta be a way to crack into this thing. Maybe once more people get their hands on it we can crowd source some help? I'd help, but my talent ends at flashing zips in CWM.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] eatmybiglazer:
In the meantime, I am emulating it up with n64oid just fine :)

I'm sure there will be something, those with the necessary talent just happen to be playing Skyrim.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Entropy512:
The question is - why bother?

As there are more and more devices on the market, the point of fighting locked bootloaders with tricks like kexec becomes less and less - it's just a massive timesink with little reward compared to simply buying a device without the lockdown.

Yes, there is very little in the sub-$300 market now, but with ICS on its way and the general downwards trend of prices - The NT is going to have some very stiff competition soon, Kindle Fire or no Kindle Fire.

In my case, I already own a Samsung Tab 10.1 - at $249, the NT would have been a nice portable hacktoy to familiarize myself with OMAP4 development - but only if fully open. With lockdown - I'd seriously rather buy an $800 Galaxy Note than this device.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] Lythandra:
I feel the same way.

Money isn't the issue but a device I can just about anything with. Cheaper is better but at this point I'm thinking ASUS Prime.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] beatlesfan01:
Great point, but not all of us have $800 to sink in a device. There's no way i could justify paying full on tablet prices. My phone does everything I need. The nook tablet was intended to be more of a play toy for hacking. If this thing is locked down then I'll have to return it. Does anyone know the time period we have to return them?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] zanderman112:
So, no chance of root and cwm soon?

Sent from my Samsung Legendary 4G, a Universe UTES phone, running "two.three.five"
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] romified:
Lol...exactly the clock I'm having to watch. I'm surprised this is evolving this way so far, exactly opposite what was expected vs. the Fire.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] JoeM01:
sorry for the dumb question, but what happens in 13 days (guessing 12 days now)
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] gordon1hd1:
That is how long people have to return their NT for a full refund.

Oh news update from the Kindle Fire, they just got CWM, alpha stage roms are expected soon.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] DarkDvr:
Well, I hope not everyone thinks the same way you do.

I already spent my $250 on NT, and KF is not an option for me - locked or not (just way too wimpy). Everything else is too expensive for a tablet (I think anything over $250 for ANY tablet is a waste of money).

I'm sad that you think this is not worth your time, and I hope someone else will help us with this.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] JoeM01:
Ohhhhh (smacks head)
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] beatlesfan01:
Damn...Well good for them. I'd love the Fire if it had an sd slot. Without that it's pretty limited for me. Let's hope someone can crack this thing.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] DarkDvr:
Exactly. Even Asus Prime isn't worth more than $250 for me. It's heavy, clumsy, doesn't have a keyboard, doesn't have a full OS on it (Android is a phone OS, I'm sorry). When you get to $300-400 category, you can just get a netbook or ultraportable with much, much better specs, keyboard and a full blown Windows 7 OS on it.

I love Android with every fiber of my heart, but it belongs in smartphones. It cannot even be used in the same sentence with a Windows OS.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] TKENNEY:
Not that it has anything to do with root but just spoke with a supervisor in Tech Support ...If you go into a store they can free up some of the dedicated "Barnes and Noble" space.. Clearly misrepresentation in their advertising having only 1GB of free space !!
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] JoeM01:
That, and the memory are what had me hung up. Then I used a coworkers and was really surprised at how much more fluid the NT was when compared to the KF. It did seem like the UI, though, and not a hardware issue.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] robertely:
The lost of optimism this quickly is getting a tad old. Let's try and remember the NT just launched. I know we all wanted a launch day root, but this is not a race. Give it some time. Frankly with the easy side loading, I'm pretty happy so far. The only thing getting me down is that *Idiotic* 1gb storage cap.

---------- Post added at 07:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------

Oh really ? Has any one tried this? I'm willing to bet if i go into my local b&N with that request ill be looked at like i have 9 heads.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] beatlesfan01:
Darkdvr. A question if I may? I don't know what most of the techno jargon being used means. Is this thing totally locked down to the point where it's impossible to achieve root and roms? Is there any hope?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] pokey9000:
Slightly OT:

I'm at the N. Austin Best Buy, looking at a kindle fire, and the first thing I see when I turn the demo on is this thread in the browser.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] beatlesfan01:
Lol! That's awesome!
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] romified:
I pick some good devices to learn on...

I learned to build and port ROMs on my Thunderbolt...the first LTE phone. Not easy, I didn't realize what I was getting into.

Now I was going to experiment and learn rooting a virgin device. This should top the heck out of that!
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] boomn:
Sounds like it would be quite illustrative to see what's on the B&N SD card they would use in stores to format these ;);)

On that note, does anyone have any contact info for the devs that we could just ask them if the bootloader is really locked down or not?
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] TKENNEY:
Just called the store and they had no clue what I was telling them lol ... Calling tech support mgr back right now !
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] pokey9000:
When I tried to boot u-boot from microsd it looked for a "factory-boot.img " or something like that instead of the usual boot.img.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] romified:
My thoughts exactly. They may even have some helpful info. They dont want a bunch of returns.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] dermotti:
keep us updated. i really want acess to my memory.
[Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet] lemonsc1:
There has got to be a way to root this thing. Side loading apps has me appeased but the though of having CM9 and a fully functioning ICS rom is killing me!