yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] malickie:
Atrix 2 Def. Locked and All of their devices Start out Locked until someone figures out a bootloader unlock for them which isn't looking so good for the Atrix 2 at the moment.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] rquinn19:
OG Atrix took a long time to get an unlocked bootloader.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] drewdatrip:
Yes I mentioned the current att line up 95% of which are unlocked. As to explain that it is most Lilly not att requesting locks rather Motorola and HTC as the root of the problem

Drew
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] malickie:
This whole debate is actually all assumption considering there is No way the general public will ever really know for Certain where the root cause of this lay's. It could be Motorola and HTC locking them down to avoid issues around release time and avoid returns. It Could be AT&T because everyone knows them as being a big brother type who likes to try to control everything and everyone and cause Monopolies. The general idea here is there is no way for Certain to say which side is at fault.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] TSF14:
My grandfathered unlimited data contract with AT&T doesn't end till end of January. Think I'll just hang around and see what shakes out.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] attn1:
Leads me to believe it's 100% pure BS. HTC is far too accommodating of carriers and not consumers. They need to examine their priorities.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Tx Redneck:
You won't get an argument from me, however, more ppl get their devices subsidized through their carrier than not. I think this is why they do what they do.

Saved and Texan by the grace of God, Redneck by choice.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Aus_Azn:
Hence, bannED. Doesn't excuse the matter that ATT has had a terrible reputation with respect to Android.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] donharden2002:
The atrix 2 is locked, I had it before getting the vivid. Figured that htc would unlock it before moto does with the atrix 2. It's a shame to because the atrix 2 is a great device.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] bjg222:
While I'm not going to disagree with the statement that AT&T likes to lock stuff down, my personal impression is that they're not the worst. They install a lot less bloatware on their phones then Verizon, in my opinion. My last phone was an unlocked Incredible S from Bell, because I wasn't happy with any of AT&T's option, and it was full of random junk. It had a completely locked bootloader (it came out before htcdev.com & the unlocking process), which took months for the devs on XDA here to break it! Lastly, all the other IS's got Gingerbread (including the Verizon Inc2), and it took another 3-4 months for the Bell one to get it because Bell was holding it up. So my thoughts are it could be worse!
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] attn1:
But I do get argument from you! :p

Samsung is also subsidized. Samsung is not locked down On AT&T. LG Thrill is not. New Sonys will not be.

Also, no one's track record is as poor as HTC's about providing kernel source in a timely manner.

HTC is a lying gutless wonder that talks big and delivers little regarding opening up their devices.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Tx Redneck:
Fair enough. ;)

I was just trying to be objective, you know, play the proverbial devil's advocate.

Saved and Texan by the grace of God, Redneck by choice.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] ClippinWings:
Dell was worse...

Those of us in the Streak community had a hell of a time... they never did release certain drivers
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] malickie:
No one's track record is as bad as HTC.......Really, mind rethinking that statement a little bit to say MOTOROLA who NEVER released their bootloader. It was an actual LEAK from an employee that got the Atrix bootloader unlocked not motorola. If you want proof https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/59983.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] malickie:
Here is more evidence that AT&T is at fault. As stated right on the HTCDev site.

"HTC is committed to assisting customers in unlocking bootloaders for HTC devices. However, certain models may not be unlockable due to operator restrictions. We continue to work with our partners on this, check back often for ongoing updates about unlockable devices."

Now tell me when someone states "May not be Unlockable due to operator Restrictions." What does that sound like. Sounds like AT&T playing games and restricting phones to me.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Jason Roach:
Cry

Sent from my stock rooted D3
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] qwertyaas:
It's why I went with the SGSII (not Skyrocket). Dev support. Even the Skyrocket will have stunted support compared to the SGSII due to hardware differences from the i9100.

The Vivid looks like a good stock experience, but not much of a phone for XDA goers.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] robertmoore208:
wow...

Firstly, I'm new to the HTC Vivid.. traded my LG Thrill for it yesterday.. and I'm super impressed. I started off with iPhone 4, went Inspire, to LG , and back to HTC. I have no problems with my new phone or At&t, or HTC. But I had nothing but issues with my Thrill on a more depressing note check out the LG forums. So we have to work a little harder for an in locked boot loader... It will be more satisfying when its said and done.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] malickie:
I have yet to actually see an HTC device not get unlocked and have a rocking development. I mean heck the mytouch 4g still has some dev going on and that phone was a hybrid of sorts with the UI it had. Anyway my point is it seems people are.writing this phone.off a bit prematurely.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] attn1:
that's not proof - it's propaganda - and BS.

Nothing to disagree with there, except the conclusion, and that's opinion. Personally, I'd rather not deal with a company that lies so fluently and violates the GPL so flagrantly and then blames others for their actions. I just don't trust them, and their competition is showing how it should be done.

Samsung releases kernel source when they release a device, per the GPL they license from. HTC does not, instead making up their own rules, and spinning lies to cover their un-cooperative asses.

Samsung has wide open devices on AT&T, HTC does not.

Facts.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] arunp44:
Not to be off topic or anything, but all of you who were grandfathered in with the unlimited plan, did u happen to notice that there is a limit now on LTE plans. Just checked my data usage and:

1394.31 MB of 10238976 MB

strange.... I guess we can figure out the top users now :p
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] ClippinWings:
mine says "of unlimited"
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] bjg222:
I'll be absolutely amazed if you ever actually hit 9999 GB! :D
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] arunp44:
lol! that would be some sort of achievement :)
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] bjg222:
Just because I was slightly bored and curious, in order to hit that, you need to be downloading data 24/7 at a sustained speed of at least 31 Mbps to reach that in a month! :D
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] ClippinWings:
Well thank god this is an LTE Device... or we'd have no hope :D
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] GSLEON3:
Boycott? :rolleyes:

Really? HTC devices being locked is the reason XDA has thrived. It is a challenge that many of us like overcoming.

Secondly, Samsung WAS the number one manufacturer f0r like one quarter of 2011. HTC WAS NUMBER ONE THIRD QUARTER 2011 & WAS ALWAYS JUST BEHIND APPLE SINCE IPHONE since apple peaked in the top spot. Just Take a look at the main XDA Page, how many HTC Devices are there compared to others? Samsung #1, Really? :rolleyes:

Compare the amount of time HTC has been in the top non-iPhone slot (years), Not to mention they contract for other manufacturers as well.

Plus they have every right to lock phones they subsidize. I personally would do the same thing right now, take the best new 4G LTE device and lock it at least for a month or two so that I (The Carrier) can poll the devices to analyze the data in the different LTE Markets (Using CIQ of course). It actually makes good QC sense, especially after the Verizon LTE launch debacle. I won't even go into looking at the tech forums out there & realizing how much time & money is spent supporting these devices due to noobie screw ups.

BTW, You can buy an unlocked Vivid for around $630.00 if you want easy.

I had both the SkyRocket & Vivid on November 6th, Vivid is now my daily driver. Full HD Video, qHD Display, the SGS2 SR is AMOLED (Great Idea! But it needs work, the contrasts between light, dark & the outer mid-tones is horrible right now, not to mention HTC Sense is a plus in my book, Sense was popular on Windows Mobile as well.

So, why should users boycott the best device on the market today?

As for LG, LOL, have you ever seen an update for an LG device? They are the worst out there when it comes to updates.

Anyways, don't be hatin' just because there are several great dev's already rolling the Vivid.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] pside15:
Sure they do but HTC has openly stated that they will give the user the option to unlock the boot-loader if they wish, but we don't have that option as of now. They probably blame AT&T but there are other devices on AT&T with unlocked boot-loaders so that doesn't make sense.

Where can you buy a Vivid with an unlocked boot-loader that will work on AT&T? You sure you aren't talking about SIM unlocked?
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Spartoi:
The Vivid is no the best device on the market.

You can't, but you can buy a HTC Raider for about that price whose bootloader you can unlock.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] GSLEON3:
1. H - E - DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS you can't. :rolleyes:

Try searching for it. Not on amazon, but Negri or NewEgg.

2. Okay Buddy, what is the best device then? What has the 16Gb storage, Full 1080P Video, 8MP Camera, 1.2Ghz Dual Core (Which is the same core used as the 1.5Ghz, just like they did with the MSM8x60), 4G LTE, 4.5" qHD Resolution... Just to name a few... So, what is this magic device that beats the resolution and performance? I see you did not name one, well you've had lots of time to think of it by now!
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Spartoi:
1. Just post the link.

2. lol. If you wanna go by a specs/quality comparison, then the Galaxy S2, Rezound, Droid Razr, and Galaxy Note all beat it. Some phones coming out later this month that are better are the Optimus LTE/Nitro and Galaxy Nexus.

Also, having a Snapdragon S3 is nothing to rave about since its either the slowest or second slowest dual core SoC.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] dizzyraider:
I get what you mean, but at the same time GS2 (regular version) doesn't have LTE and the SkyRocket version has the same Snapdragon S3 core, and the WVGA resolution isn't as appropriate for the larger screens. Also both Rezound and RAZR are not gsm devices while the Optimus and Galaxy Nexus are not out. Galaxy Note on the other hand isn't really readily available in the States and it also doesn't have LTE either.

I totally understand that the Vivid isn't the absolute most advanced phone in the market, but I do agree it is one of the best out at the moment for US GSM market.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Spartoi:
Your just segregating devices into categories so that the Vivid is still a contender. The questions I was asked was "So, what is this magic device that beats the resolution and performance?" and I named them. It doesn't matter if you can use them on AT&T or not.

I'd agree with that.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] bsSkunkApe:
I just came off of a long stint with a Tilt 2. As far as I'm concerned, this IS the best device on the market today. Certainly not worth boycotting, even if they haven't factory unlocked it yet. It will eventually be rooted, and ohh my will this phone be fun!
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] pside15:
Where do you see a HTC Vivid with an unlocked bootloader? It doesn't exist yet. If you see a Vivid that is unlocked it is talking about SIM unlocked. You can buy a Raider with an unlocked bootloader but it doesn't work on AT&T. I would love for you to show me a link that proves me wrong though.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Spartoi:
The HTC Raider supports AT&T 3G/4G/LTE.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] pside15:
Yea, according to HTC's site, that is correct. I could have sworn I read something different before.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] manbeer:
Ok I have an extra upgrade to burn through and have been thinking about a vivid just because I loved my inspire so much . I've had in the past year 2 nexus s, vibrant, captivate, inspire, dell streak and 3 galaxy s 2 I777's

I would be considering replacing my gs2 with this

I love the performance of the galaxy but no matter what I'm always having little glitchy issues regardless of ROM/kernel. I also just hate plastic Samsung products. I hate light phones, and the Samsung isn't very good ergonomically

The performance out of the box on the vivid seems lag free and at least as smooth as the I777 even though on quadrant scores ity isn't the best.

Size and weight is nice, shape isn't the best. I would prefer more curved like the amaze

Screen is incredible! Everyone raves about the samoled or whatever it is. For those of us who keep the screen less bright to conserve battery I don't think that makes a difference. What does is the qhd display. It's so much freaking better I can't believe it

I can't speculate on battery life and truthfully I know very little about phone/computers etc, motorsports and beer are more of my thing , preferably at the time time. I can tell you that I honest to god have run just about every ROM and kernel out on the i777 and the vivid feels at least as snappy if not more responsive right out of the box.

The main thing holding me back is that the reception on the i777 is the best of any phone I've used, and I'm not so sure how this will be, my inspire was horrible.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] malickie:
I have absolutely no reception issues with this device at all. But that is always down to personal user experience and where they live etc. So my basis would be to go pick one up and if it Sucks with the reception return it, really the only way to find out how good or bad it will be considering everyone's usage will vary typically.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] rsohne:
Returning mine on Sunday
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] ClippinWings:
Check out my signature. LOL

In addition, my son has the inspire.

I'm very happy with my Vivid.

YES, the battery life cold be better, but you seem to have a realistic grasp of that.

I found the Streak to be just a tad too big.

The SGS II, just a tad too small.

Plus, like you mentioned, the build quality and the over-saturated screen drove me nuts.

The vivid is perfect size, Big screen but still manageable with one hand.

Anyway....

Reception.

I'm getting better reception here in So. Cal, not saying the SGSII was bad, it wasn't... but I never paid attention to the # of bars i got on the SGSII, just as I don't on the Vivid, but I will say that I have not noticed any reception issues with either unit and data speeds are higher on the Vivid.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] doktor buknasty:
Any particular reason why?
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] malickie:
I believe we should all write to HTC and ask them ever so "Politely" to get off their Arses and give us the Damn Unlocked bootloader they have promised of their devices. Just a half idea. Now I just get to wait and see what stupid cut and paste response I get back from writing into them about it. If they respond with an intelligent response I will be totally shocked.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Apatche69:
If someone prepares our own letter for us all to copy/paste I would gladly participate from all of my email accounts.

Sent from my HTC Vivid
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] eespejo99:
I don't want to sound like a troll as I've just switched from iPhone. I figured I'd give Android a try while waiting for the iPhone5. I picked up a HTC Vivid, very happy with it. It's a nice little phone, the Android OS overall is pretty far behind iPhones but I'm hoping ICS will change that. Anyway, is the problem that the xda dev community just doesn't have the skills to get around these bootloader issues? I mean, you guys are engaged in basically hacking these phones but why can't you hack the bootloaders and unlock them yourselves?
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] drewdatrip:
Unlike iOS exploits are patched to make these processes far more difficult
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] rquinn19:
Same reason why the 4S doesn't have a publicly available JB
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Smitherines:
Just got off the phone with HTC Customer Support. Figured I had nothing better to do then call them up and harass them about unlocking the bootloader. They said the unlock will be out within the first month of the phone's release. I then questioned ATT's ability to request that the phone stay locked, and they said absolutely not, that they can't do that. He said to just wait patiently as he knew for a fact that it was definitely coming out. Most of us have had the phone since the 7th, so we have some more time until our 30 days is up, and at that point, we can all call HTC a few days prior to our 30 day return, and threaten to return the phone. I'm sure with all of us threatening to return our phones, they may do something at that point.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] capman231:
This is great news if it's true. I like this phone and since I bought it off contract I will keep it.

capman231
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] ClippinWings:
Lol... Zing!

But, unlike apple, google doesn't intentionally brick your device if you have applied an exploit.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] eespejo99:
So the answer is android phones are only "hackable" if the vendor says it's OK? I guess I'll just add that misnomer to the great pile of misinformation that's out there about Android phones. I'm starting to find everything I've heard about Android was an exaggeration.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] malickie:
So I wrote to HTC the other day and this is what I said.

"I can't believe that you all can Unlock the bootloader for the HTC Raider but CAN'T Unlock the Bootloader for the HTC Vivid I mean come on these are the exact same phones minus a radio because they aren't in the US. I mean really you guy's say oh yea don't worry we will provide a bootloader unlock solution for all of our phone yet you keep the HTC Vivid on total lock down. The LEAST you could do is give a time frame on when the heck this phone will have an Unlocked Bootloader considering I know quite a few people who are about ready to say bye bye HTC and NEVER buy your brand again because of this bootloader none sense."

This is the stupid Cut and Paste Response I got back.

"I appreciate your interest in the new HTC Vivid and you were wondering about the unlock boot loader. I understand you are eager to unlock the boot loader. We continue to work with our partners to work on this. I would recommend you keep an eye on the support list on the HTC Developer website at www.htcdev.com . If you need any further assistance, you are welcome to send another inquiry through the HTC website by going through the Support page (http://www.htc.com/us/support) then tapping ‘send us an email’. You should input all the necessary information requested on the page."

So doesn't seem to matter how I word the issue they send the same generic message back to it seems everyone. Either way I responded and hopefully this time I won't get such a retarded cut and paste message back.

---------- Post added at 11:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 PM ----------

That isn't 100% accurate what you are saying there. It takes Dev's Time to do these things themselves if that is the way it goes down. Other than that most devices that have been out longer than 3-4 months have bootloaders unlocked and fully functional Roms built by that point. Mind you I say Most because some like Motorola have a Hard Bootloader to go around due to the webtop they have built into the phones (at least I assume that would be why). Regardless though it really was not an exaggeration of what Android phones can do. It ultimately comes down to Time, Patience, Dev Support and the Manufacturer (manufacturer being last because given time anything can be gone around). Also like stated earlier at least Google doesn't throw updates out that will BRICK a Phone that has an unlocked bootloader.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] hungmung:
I take it your just pulling that response out of your ass and haven't even read 3/4 if this thread where people have talked about all of the phones that HTC has released that didn't have unlocked bootloaders that have still been rooted. But that's ok you don't have to do anything like check facts before posting a stupid comment like this.

Sent through the power of Cthulhu!
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Entropy512:
Android itself is open - the problem is that a vendor can apply lockdown without violating the license. It's generally frowned upon by the open source community and users though. The first company to do something like this was TiVo, so the technique has come to be referred to as "Tivoization".

Motorola has done it with almost every phone but the original Droid - people avoid Motos like the plague for this reason.

HTC has done it on far fewer phones. They started doing it in 2011, and then released a press release claiming they would stop doing so after public outcry. The reason this thread exists is because they lied - even months later, locked devices are still hitting the market..

Samsung has, as of yet, not done it to a single Android device that I know of. The closest is locking of the APX flasher on the Tab 10.1 - but that only blocks one method of flashing, and Samsung includes another flashing method (Odin) that works to flash anything on the device except the Odin bootloader itself. So the device is still effectively unlocked. Samsung has also, unlike Motorola and HTC, actually donated devices to developers to hack on them (such as Galaxy S II devices to the Cyanogenmod team, and a wide variety of devices to Supercurio.)

So the short of it is - if you want to experience the full benefits of Android's openness, either buy a Nexus series device (Google's official Android phones), or buy a Samsung. Almost all Motorolas are locked down (The Xoom being an exception, because it was the "Nexus" of the Honeycomb tablets), any new HTC seems to be, Samsungs are wide open.

Edit: Also do note that even without bootloader unlocking, even a Moto or HTC device is far more open than the walled garden of iOS.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] nkd:
I know people like to defend HTC. I love their phones, but guess what they pretty much back tracked on their word. They basically said, the future phones will be unlocked and the phones that came out a few weeks after their announcement will be unlocked. They still lock every fricking device and do not guarantee if it will be unlocked. Every support person has a different answer. I mean why not come out and say that this device will be unlocked. They are clearly not in control here and are not living up to their word. All uses want to know is and if and when. Why not just admit that some phones will still be locked.

I mean samsung phones are easy as hell to unlock and even new motorola phones seem to unlock easy. O well if this phone is not unlocked it will be my last HTC phone.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] malickie:
I agree minus one point in there. Motorola phones seem to unlock easy is a Total and complete falsehood as far as their phones on AT&T go. I replied to their stupid generic reply that I had gotten from them and hopefully someone with an actual REAL answer will get off their ass and respond, if they do I will let yall know.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] nkd:
I don't know it seems that the newe moto phones unlock pretty easy. RAZR was unlocked before it even launched.
[HTC Vivid, Raider, Velocity] Pirateghost:
really? looking at the dev forums over there seems to indicate that they actually have to use bootstrap method...thats not unlocked.