yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mattykinsx:
Do you see the missteps in logic here?

You acknowledge its Samsung and yet hold Sprint responsible as if they can cast a magic spell to change Samsung's ways.

An ant living under a rock knows that Samsung's software support for their Android device's has been a joke for years.

This is nothing new, nothing has changed.

As well as radio issues with past Samsung phones.

We all knew what we were buying into.

Let's not kid ourselves.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] cobraboy85:
of course we did... which is why i have stated several times if it isn't worked out before my 14 day mark its going back.

And if you knew how a manufacturing process works you would know sprint is equally responsible. When it comes to quality control the manufacturer and customer both are equally responsible. Sprint demands deadlines and product from them, Samsung hurries a product out to meet deadlines, things don't work properly. That is how industry is whether it is a phone or a rocket engine. The key here is sufficient testing time.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] pumacat311:
I have had my Epic Touch for a month and I got the LOS yesterday for the first time ,right after flashing the oc kernel. I have been using Starburst Rom for a feww weeks and the LOS kernel runs just like the stock kernel, no LOS at all with those two.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] cobraboy85:
Could be a number of things been on starburst rom for a few days and haven't seen LOS yet. My phone had the LOS the second day I had it so we will see.

LOS is an issue that seems to happen randomly however as even phones that are completely stock have reported the issue.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] MadFlava:
They are.

Do you think when Ford does a seatbelt recall that they are the ones who made the seatbelts? Its no different. You just cant seem to wrap your head around it tho.

---------- Post added at 08:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 AM ----------

I havent moved. I dont have any reason to check the maps.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Mship:
So I am a bit confused about a few things that are going on in this thread. I am coming coming from an Evo 4 G and have had this phone for about a week and everything seems fine so far.

So with that said I keep hearing how horrible people are saying Samsung is with there developments, and I know because I did have a Moment for about 6 months before I got rid of it. But it seems like you all are also saying that you got you LOS when you rooted and rom'ed your phones. So if that is the case how exactly is that Samsung fault?
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] kd0axs:
LOS is affecting both rooted and non-rooted phones. However, it does seem to be more common on phones that are rooted, especially those that are running something other than the stock kernel.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] kd0axs:
This is where your logic is a bit off. Using your example here, Ford = Samsung, not Sprint. Samsung is the manufacturer of the phone, not Sprint. In this case, Sprint would be the equivalent of the Ford dealership. It's Samsung's responsibility to fix this problem. Sprint can't fix it because they didn't build the phone.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] MadFlava:
Im not rooted.

---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------

Ford doesnt make the seatbelts. Ford sells the car with the seatbelts in it. Sprint sells the service that requires the Samsung phone to use it. See how its the same? Of course you dont.

Like I said, Im over it. Sprint can deal with the FCC and the AG over this. Ive wasted enough time on it and see at this point its not going to go anywhere.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mattykinsx:
And Samsung doesn't make every component in their phones...
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daneurysm:
Rooted with stock kernel is as good as stock. Period. Root doesn't break anything, some custom kernels do.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] kd0axs:
Except you don't buy a car from Ford, you buy it from a dealership. You aren't fully understanding how the retail process works.

Ford buys parts and materials from outside suppliers.

They use these parts and materials to build a car.

A dealership buys the car from Ford

Finally, the consumer buys the car from the dealership.

Ford is the manufacturer, so they are responsible for any defects with the car.

The process works the same way with phones.

Samsung buys parts and materials from outside suppliers.

They use these parts and materials to build phones.

Sprint buys the phones from Samsung.

Finally, the consumer buys the phone from a Sprint store.

Samsung is the manufacturer so they are responsible for any defects with the phone.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] BigRitz:
This is so dumb, sorry but even though I completely disclose the LOS when I sell this phone people buy it, the sprint website from REAL CUSTOMER REVIEWS make this phone the highest rated phone sprint has ever sold. The only reason this thread is even going on is because of the very few of us that decide to take our phone much more serious then the majority of the masses that buy and use cell phones.

IF YOU DONT LIKE OR WANT YOUR EPIC TOUCH THEN SELL IT OR TRADE IT THERE IS PLENTY OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD LOVE TO HAVE ONE !

ps I have a photon for trade if anybody doesnt want there TOUCH, and everybody knows the photon is the best phone we carry when it comes to signal strength!
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] kd0axs:
Oops, I quoted myself instead of editing.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sling:
Interesting convo.

Lets say the Ford car has known break failure issue consumer drives it of lot wipes out family in it.

Should seller look the next customer in the eyes drop a set of keys send them on their way or step back from selling till break issues fixed?
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mattykinsx:
The day a phone malfunctions and kills a family I think this comparison will be relevant. :rolleyes:
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] BigRitz:
Yea your right brakes killing family and temporary LOS are the same category don't know how I didn't catch that sorry :(
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] cobraboy85:
the point he is trying to make is business ethics. which are also moral ethics. don't be narrow-minded
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] magoo5289:
Well... a thread did come up yesterday about a charger sitting fire to his girlfriends bed... haha
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] cobraboy85:
and by the way... hypothetically speaking... what if there was an emergency and somebody needed to contact a paramedic and the person using the phone was a person who was not so technically inclined and didn't know to reboot the phone to get it to work?

not having service or the phone randomly losing service permanently could cause somebody fatal consequences. if you think otherwise, you are a fool.

also, only you can prevent forest fires. and furtermore, just say no.... to crack.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mattykinsx:
Unfortunately "ethics" has never really been associated with "business"

Everyone's view on what's ethical or not is different.

No amount of regulation is going to completely protect you.

Your best bet is to always make as informed as possible purchases.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sling:
No need for eye roll its EVO 3D forum like.

That would be hard to report wouldn't it ?

Many owners of ET have no clue that radio issue is present but heres an example,

Consumers witness crime taking place attempts to call 911 but finds LOS icon displayed thinking no service is available.

Their unable to make call that may very well save someones life or their own.

Sprint knows LOS issues present yet continues to sell.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] daryelv:
The bean counters at Sprint and/or Samsung have probably already figured out the odds of something like this happening and decided it's not worth the trouble/money to fix it as a priority. It's a part of business.

-Daryel
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sling:
You beat me to my reply :o

but yes you are exactly right.

Sprint knows of this serious OS/hardware issue yet continues to sell thus they share responsibly for harm being done.

On a side note,

I purchased mine on release day never had LOS but could happen anytime
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mattykinsx:
I again ask the same question that never seems to get answered by anyone:

What do you expect Sprint to do?

Stop selling one of the best selling phones in the world because a subset of those phones may experience an issue?

Yeah, right. Not even close to realistic.

Threaten to not carry the next generation Samsung devices if they don't fix the issue fast?

Samsung would just laugh.

Sprint gives you the right to return any phone within 14 days if you have issues.

You have the internet and review sections on hand for researching before you purchase.

Our entire economy is based on making informed purchases.

It would be one thing if Samsung phones weren't known for problems.

But that's not even close to the truth.

Samsung's phones are known to be more likely to have radio issues.

Samsung is also known to have significant delays in updates/fixes for their phones.

I'm sorry, it's just... this is nothing new.

Also, it's not realistic to get a list of "known issues" before buying.

Why?

Every smartphone on the market has TONS of known issues.

Here are literally thousands of known issues with Android phones alone:

http://code.google.com/p/android/is...pe&colspec=ID Type Status Owner Summary Stars

How do you determine what issues "should" be told to the customer before a purchase?

You can't. I could justify every single issue being told to a customer.

It's just not realistic...at all.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] cobraboy85:
hmm, i see your point.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] MadFlava:
Whatever... enjoy your check from Samsung this month.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sling:
When T-mobile pulled HP Ipaqs of their shelves for same reason HP wasn't laughing.

They took a bad press hit costing them lots of dough...oh and dependable smartphone name.

If sprint pulled ET Samsung would get a major wake up call that would benefit everyone in the cell phone world.

Sorry but your not getting the point.

This radio issue is well known by Sprint that may not show its ugly head till after 14day trial and not all consumers know samsungs history....yes they could research product before buying but as we know many don't.

Is it their fault or Sprints for selling device that radio locks off network when things go bad....911 call for example?

It would be Sprints fault for selling product they know is defective.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] jimbobtexas:
I used my Internet Law Degree and searched for "fraud." I don't think that word means what you think it means.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mattykinsx:
Sprint is the last company that can afford to roll the dice like what you're suggesting.

You're not getting the point...

Samsung phones have radio issues. Its not new to this phone.

Nexus 4g, Moment, etc etc etc.

As I've shown you, every phone has thousands of defects.

Also, if you don't make informed purchase decisions then its no one's fault but your own as the customer.

That's our system.

Regulation can't protect what amounts to choosing to be ignorant.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sling:
Same was said about T-mobile and they pulled it off benefiting in long run.

Your not getting the point.

It can be well known but not everyone knows Samsungs track record.

Yes consumer should research but not required to do so.

Once again,

This radio issue is well known by Sprint that may not show its ugly head till after 14day trial and not all consumers know samsungs history....yes they could research product before buying but as we know many don't.

Is it their fault or Sprints for selling device that radio locks off network when things go bad....911 call for example?

It would be Sprints fault for selling product they know is defective.

Yes phones have thousands of defects but the one sprints holding is pretty serious.

They know radio can cut out causing harm yet they keep selling.

hmm Ive got a feeling if a friend or family member of yours purchased ET without research and harm came from it you would change your tune about knocking on Sprints door.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mattykinsx:
How do you define serious?

Because how you define it is not how someone else does.

'Serious' could be an email that didn't send due to a defect in Android and XY person subsequently lost their job.

To the last part of your post:

I can assure you we'd be on Samsung's door.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] dallastx:
Im in support of taking every dime from sprint and filing class action suit! But....my phone hasnt had a LOS since going back to stock almost a month ago. As people on XDA knows I did make sprint pay dearly in money. OP if you are really pissed as alot of members are, look for a thread on how to put pressure on Sprint. Also go back to stock with root. No modified kernals. Yea few still have LOS but not like being on a modified kernal. Oh and im in full support of your anger.

PS Dont listen to Matty. He keeps skipping school to bother people.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sling:
LOS issue is serious Sprints aware.

UPDATES:

9/29: Shane_M has responded from Sprint with this message:

"The loss of signal issue is an official known issue, Sprint and Samsung are aware of this issue and it will be addressed in a maintenence release. This information is posted on our known issues board and should be accessible by any care or technical support representative you speak with."

------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a growing problem - did a quick search and didn't find anything in here....

The issue is the phone will go into "No Signal" mode randomly and the only way to get out of it is to reboot the phone. Happens when in sleep mode; with and without wifi on; standing on your head; kissing your wife. Here are the messages spouted in Logcat when it happens:

* I/TelephonyRegistry( 2716): notifyServiceState: 1 home Searching for service... Unknown CSS not supported 0 0RoamInd: -1DefRoamInd: -1EmergOnly: false

* I/StatusBarPolicy( 2835): onServiceStateChanged-S:1 home Searching for service... Unknown CSS not supported 0 0RoamInd: -1DefRoamInd: -1EmergOnly: false

* D/Mms/SmsReceiverService( 5897): [Mms/SmsReceiverService][SMS]Receiver handleMessage : Action =android.intent.action.SIM_STATE_CHANGED

* D/PhoneApp( 2874): - state: DISCONNECTED

* D/PhoneApp( 2874): - reason: radioTurnedOff

* I/TelephonyRegistry( 2716): notifyServiceState: 3 home null null null Unknown CSS not supported -1 -1RoamInd: -1DefRoamInd: -1EmergOnly: false

Anyone see a problem here? SIM_STATE_CHANGED? radioTurnedOff?

http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/76962?tstart=0

Bad move.

Sprint knowing device is defective on their network passing it on to customer would be the way to go settlement will come fast.

From that point go after Samsung but keep in mind it will be a very long ping pong game with builder & seller blaming each other to no end.

Samsung will clam they told sprint issue was being worked on yet they continued to sell its not are fault.

How do you think case will be ruled?
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mattykinsx:
I'm aware of the fact that Sprint/Samsung knows about it.

Here's a question:

Why is it Sprint's fault that Samsung continues to allow sales of their phone with such a 'serious issue' when they [Samsung] clearly has no priority on fixing it?

They control the sales on their phone.

They are also solely responsible for software fixes.

Sprint can't anticipate Samsung's actions.

For all you know, Sprint said "when are you gonna fix this Samsung?" and Samsung said "Really soon!"

I get the ''psychology'' behind blaming the carriers but that doesn't mean it's the carriers fault.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] kd0axs:
I understand everyone's anger about this problem, but a lawsuit won't go anywhere. It's clearly stated in Sprint's TOS that they are NOT responsible for these issues.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sling:
Samsung can allow sales all day but their not the one selling it to consumer thus taking away lots of responsibility on their part.

Seller / Consumer traction is key.

Now after you sue Sprint get big pay off they may try to go after Samsung but will totally fail getting anything from it.

Samsung will clam fix was being worked on Sprint selling device should of been halted.

None of that matters from that point its Sprints ball.

Sell device they know is defective that could do harm or pull off shelves.

I would pull off shelf giving Samsung wake up call that would make major news in technology world.

Samsung would finally have to stand up support device they sell to vendor or make a far worse name for their selves.

Im betting they would stand up everyone wins on every network.

Damn matty come on.

Its the carries fault if they are aware of issue that can cause harm & continue to sell.

Its out of Samsungs hand at that point , they let carrier know issue was being worked on.

Sprints now holding all the cards putting it in consumer hands.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] mattykinsx:
We are having a discussion here.

If you don't want to be apart of that discussion you can go ahead and click the 'x' at the top right corner of your screen.

No one is being offensive to anyone else thus far in here. Please don't start it. Thanks.

I'm sorry but I 1000% disagree with that, it is ALL in Samsung's hands.

They made the device.

They are responsible for software support for the device.

They continue to sell the phones in Sprint stores.

If they can't handle those responsibilities then they shouldn't be in the business.

Look, on October 1st there was a security flaw found in HTC devices. [See here: http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...-numbers-gps-sms-emails-addresses-much-more/ ]

Less than four weeks later Sprint released the update. (Lets keep in mind, ALL updates have to be tested, your phone bricks and you flip out) [See here: http://www.bgr.com/2011/10/25/sprint-issues-security-fix-for-htc-phones/ ]

No other manufacturer continues to have the significant delay in updates, and the complete lack of support that Samsung devices do.

No other manufacturer continues to have the radio problems that Samsung devices have.

The fault is obviously Samsung.

Now, you can be upset with the fact that Sprint is continuing to sell the phone but also remember that they make purchase orders/agreements with Samsung.

I'm sure those agreements bind them to sell the product for whatever period of time/amount stipulated.

It's just not as simple as saying "okay, some of these devices can have a problem that could be serious, let's pull them off the shelf"
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] kd0axs:
Did you read the quote I posted from Sprint's TOS? No one is going to be suing Sprint over this and getting a "big payoff". It says right in the TOS that they are NOT RESPONSIBLE for these problems. Every Sprint subscriber agrees to those terms when they activate their service. The problem is that 99% of people don't read them.

For anyone that wants to read the TOS, you can find them here:

http://shop2.sprint.com/en/legal/legal_terms_privacy_popup.shtml

Make sure to read the "Dispute Resolution" section that explains that you don't even have the right to sue Sprint or file a class action lawsuit. All disputes are to be resolved through arbitration and handled on an individual basis.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] sling:
No no sprint continues to buy Samsung phones to sell in their stores.....this is key point your missing.

Samsungs not selling to consumer sprint is thus taking on responsibility that device is sound on sale to a point.

If device out of the gate caused harm Samsung would get most of the blame.

Now that Sprint knows of issue and continues to sell they take sole responsibility for user outcome after that point.

I agree but its also a responsibility of seller to make sure product their selling is sound which sprint has neglected.

Sprint is well aware of LOS issue yet continues to sell which is very dangerous.

If I was Mr Hesse I would on contacted Sammy letting them know update would be needed within 7 days or device would be pulled until firmware fixing issue became available

HTC has better support Samsungs pretty much stinks no doubt.

I'm not upset that their still selling just a little disappointed.

They would have no issue fighting samsung if found to be danger to consumer.

Having radio shut down LOS falls into that danger category on the 911 front Sprint would beat samsung up pulling device.

Heck look at it this way,

ET battery's start blowing up when they get hot.

Sprint contacts Samsung letting them know of issue their reply is firmware updates on the way soon.

Should Sprint pull off shelves or keep selling them blaming Sammy when customer comes in battery acid drenched?

NEWS Flash - Sprint stores selling dangers Samsung phone customers burnt!

Now keep in mind Samsungs let Sprint know firmware was on the way yet sprint kept on selling cashing in on flesh < pretty intense huh.

Who fault is it?

Its sprints fault , they sold product to consumer knowing it was defective.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] cobraboy85:
threeeeaaaad/
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] superbeast0:
Comparing an Xbox or PlayStation is in regards to Samsung. Sprint is like the best buy you bought it from. We offer service and repair options, just like they do, and we even have the ability to exchange you to other devices if the MANUFACTURER deems it necessary. We report the issues to the manufacturer, they create a sw patch, we test it and then send it out to your phones via our network.

If you are one of the genius individuals that do not subscribe to tep then you can always send your phone to Samsung. It is up to the buyer to do his due diligence in deciding what they are going to buy. Even after purchase you have 14days to return it.

Buyer beware, no one made you go out and buy the latest and greatest phone. That makes you no better than the iTards that buy something just cause the logo on the phone.

/end rant
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] kd0axs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

/THREAD
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] housry23:
It's funny because it's true! Gotta love Louis CK!
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Stoney60:
I got a Moment a couple months after it was released-Yes I had data problems for a while until they fixed it, but after that, it never gave me another problem. My wife used it after I got my Epic (which never had a single problem not even the GPS issue that was fairly widespread). She complained when I gave her the Epic when I got my ET a couple weeks ago--she wanted the moment back. My ET has never had an LOS problem. See I read the forums and about the LOS problem and that it was mostly rooted phones that were experiencing it. So I haven't rooted it and have not had a single problem with it. My biggest problem is that there is no body glove for it that has a belt clip function like my Epic had. So, I'm considering filing a complaint with the attorney General to get sprint to fix that. BWAHAHAHAHAHA
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] Rob4828:
Reps from my Sprint store didn't tell me there was a problem and it only happened to me once
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] kd0axs:
That's because the reps at most Sprint stores (or any other carrier's stores) don't really know much about the phones. They are just there to sell them. The people that frequent sites like XDA know far more about these phones than most store reps.
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] drksilenc:
There is also something you arnt taking into consideration. This software isnt 100% samsung there are lots of baked in sprint pieces and that is one MAJOR reason that we have these delays. if samsung could cut out all of the sprint bloat and release there stock touchwiz without anything sprint on it we prbly would have had the update weeks ago
[Samsung Epic 4G Touch] kwiggington:
I have had no signal issues either

Sent from the bridge of the USS Enterprise using LT.Com Worf
[Epic 4G General] bit1:
Just in case someone doesn't read the other thread

http://android.clients.google.com/p...a5ff039a0c97.SPH-D700_update_EC05_to_EI22.zip

here's the zip

hxxp://android.clients.google.com/packages/ota/sprint_samsung_d700/a5ff039a0c97.SPH-D700_update_EC05_to_EI22.zip

full link if you need it just replace the hxxp with http
[Epic 4G General] keithkevorkian:
Niiiice