yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
This has been one of the more lively threads that hasn't gone off into a hundred different tangents. After 45 pages there will be a few off-topic posts here and there. From a moderator, I would have expected a little more tolerance and a lot less subjectivity. Do as you will.
[Windows Phone 7 General] juzz86:
The debate is fine. Forty-five pages shows a fair amount of tolerance, look back where my first post is.

Just try and keep the name-calling out of it. You're debating opinion, no need to get carried away.

And if you have a problem with me.personally, feel free to PM me. Just keep it out of the thread.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
This the clearest, most concise, and well explained positive opinion I've read on xda in favor of wp. Well done.

With that many correspondents, do you over run your data cap, or use wifi for the majority of syncing ? Id imagine pulling 100 users' (similarly active social networking as yours) pictures and posts would be heavy on bandwidth ?

Personally I wouldn't benefit from the social networking sync (I know most people won't care my preference) of other people. Usually I just reply to emails, or sms/mms on the current subject.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gentry33:
Umm... nice launcher. I can't see how not being able to clutter the homescreen would make WP7 unpopular.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thebobp:
I was actually looking for a better one, with a french city background, but this was the best that i could find :(

If you hate clutter, turn the transparency to low (or zero) like i did.

But the point (in addition to, yes, user choice) is to leave a good first impression. A good default background (they must have art-focused ppl at microsoft able to come up with one) would've simply WOWed prospective customers. And since we seem to be talking mostly about low-brow, non-technically-inclined consumers here, this is highly relevant.

sent from my Terran Command Center.
[Windows Phone 7 General] _Variable:
Im a half iOS half Android fan. I must say tat iOS, for me, is clean, simple and user friendly, Android I could say the same except if youre a widget fanatic.

I only like Android because of more free apps, Sadly, the phone is the problem, I have 190 MB Ram, 175 MB Storage and a 1.something GB SD Card. Thats probably the reason of not so good Android experience.

iOS, on the other hand, has a simple and smooth UI, Im using it on an iPad 2. There are many reasons why I like iOS. There is only 1 phone and 1 tablet to use iOS on, so no hardware fragmentation.

Thats why its hard to argue about how good Android is, its because maybe the Android hater used a cheap phone as a reference, while the Aandroid fan uses good phones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] AndyFZ1S:
All very nice to hear and that but the discussion is to why Windows Phone 7 isn't popular. :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
aaaaaa-men. it's actually fun to debate pro / con when there aren't immediate "troll", "fanboy", "baitman", etc accusations flying and ruining the conversations !
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
Yeah the people hub is great. I really take it for granted. I'm sure other OSes will start using it. How could they not copy it?

The other great thing is you can pin frequent contacts individually to the home screen. Then you just have to touch their picture and all their people hub info pops up. And it's all integrated. You can email, text, hit them on facebook or twitter all from one place.

If you use your phone to communicate Windows Phone is the best IMHO. If you use your phone to flash ROMs it's not the best. You just have to figure out what you like to use your phone for.

---------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 AM ----------

This is not an opinion...

Frankly if you delete that entire post and our responses to it that would really clean up the thread. Debating opinion is one thing. Posting a list of false statements is another.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
Fanboy, troll & baitman are not what I would call degrading. I've heard from the mod so I'll defer to his definition. Where I come from those are terms of endearment.

Regrettably we've reached a point of extremism, at least in this country, where differing points of view are now considered personal attacks. We can debate for another 46 pages and the end result will be the same. The OP asked why WP7 isn't popular and it turned into another Android vs. iOS vs. WP7 diatribe by all involved. On its face, the question is more of a "what's wrong with WP7" and how can it be improved so that it gains traction. The post by thebobp was closer to the spirit of the OP and presents a valid point. Why can't WP7 have a nice launcher like that? First impressions are the most important and let's be real, for all the function and information Metro provides, it's boring. Someone from another OS looks at it and probably goes "meh". Transparent tiles, sharper lines and a more pleasing font would do wonders.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
Probably rhetoric on your part, but I'll say I didn't view it as a personal attack on me but rather more as a ridiculous comment by you lacking any reason to believe that someone other than you would find Launcher 7 ugly.

I won't deny that some find Metro boring but others like me are fine with it. You can keep your transparency and generic backgrounds. I like my live tiles with all their activity and vibrancy of color highlighting and shifting my attention to the important info they're presenting me with.

If I wanted busy clutter I'd litter my desktop with endless rows of icons like my parents do.

So to sum aesthetics are probably one reason, but I wouldn't say it's the definitive or majority reason. If anything it's probably the difference in interacting with the UI. Unfamiliarity can cause dislike.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
"Transparent tiles, sharper lines and a more pleasing font would do wonders." Where in that sentence does it mention altering the live tiles or even the colors? Where in that sentence is there any mention of clutter or "endless rows of icons"?

How you completely misread or misunderstood my post is exactly what I was alluding to. What is wrong with improving the aesthetics of Metro? There have been sufficient complaints from users to warrant either an improvement or the ability to alter it (another widespread complaint). There are countless other valid complaints by users that should be addressed by Microsoft. Apathy from those who continually say "it's fine with me" is part of the reason WP7 isn't popular. Those of us who wish for WP7 to succeed and dominate the marketplace at some point will continue onward "damn the torpedoes".
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
Except that if the first impression is all that matters to you (as it seems to be), by definition WP7 is already in front ,as it's already thrown up a full colour, full screen, glorious picture to say "Hello!" before you've laid a single finger on the screen. Not some low contrast, mostly obscured, "can you guess what it is yet?" pictogram puzzle that you don't get to see until you've swiped through the lock screen.

Just like the old adage in house viewings, where it's reckoned that a Yes/No decision is already made in the first 10 seconds down the garden path before you've opened the front door, if the first impression is all that counts, then WP7 has already wowed the customer while Android is still sat waiting for the knock at the door!

Still we're never going to agree on this and it's getting boring now going over this time and time again so that's my last word on freakin' wallpapers! :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] AndyFZ1S:
Think this thread has definitely run its course, However there were a few good reasons amongst all the bravado, Final thought is that people don't like change and until the OS matures WP will always be trailing behind and even then some will still moan about it. ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] juzz86:
Wise words. It will be interesting to see what happens in the near future.

Thread closed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
WP7 will not fail, that's for sure. Besides it has great potential and will be developed further,

it is - I think - kind of experimental platform for MS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
You came very close to suggesting cheaper = better in your suggestion of sales ease for wp.

If this is the case, why don't people buy flip phones without data plans ?

I know what your point is about the sales staff... just remember, you really will not want a walmart phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Huh? I didn't understand none of that. Amazon didn't make a WP7 device.

My question was, where are all the other devices? You only see Samsung and HTC, those who settled MS lawsuits and are pretty much obligated to. Dell dropped WP7, and you aren't seeing anything from other OEMs.
[Windows Phone 7 General] feygor:
I have to say I agree partially with what you're saying. I think hoping for Microsoft to release an update that makes it the best phone ever is far-fetched. However, just remember that when they launched the Xbox, it seemed a stupid idea going against two huge hardware giants (Sony and Nintendo). It's an understatement that Microsoft has a foothold in the games market... I know they did have PC games before that though...

Anyway, although I do agree that too many people are waiting for this elusive 'takeover' that isn't going to happen, I think that WP7 is a good operating system, i'm not just saying that because I'm biased, but I've had Pocket PC 2003, I've had WM5, I've had WM6.5, I've had android and I've had iPhone. Every time I do the same, 18 months or less, I upgrade.

Not sure whether I've changed, but I'm happy with my WP7, happy enough to not upgrade when the time comes. Just because it has awful advertising, doesn't mean that the phone itself is awful.

I love the fact that I can trial every major game, and many major and minor apps before buying. I love that the development is growing, some apps currently support true multitasking. I love the facebook integration, the people hub etc.

The selling points so far have been: Office.

Office sucks, it's much worse than office mobile in WM6.5, it can't even open docx's correctly. How can Microsoft be the only company that can't make a phone that's compatible with their own formats?

Xbox Live.

I'm a casual gamer, and yes the achievement system is cool, but it's not a selling point, not when only about 10% of your users give a care in the world about their achievement score.

Voice recognition.

It sucks, it really does. I've tried androids alternative as well as iris, i've tried iPhones alternative as well as siri. It just doesn't work as well as advertised. It never does. I've used Dragon Speaking Naturally on my PC, after an hours voice training it doesn't pick me up perfectly, no phone will ever do it out of the box.

So Microsoft seem to be advertising it's weakest features. It almost seems as if the R&D department has worked so hard, and now the advertising department is screwing things up (ironically the opposite of apple. Releasing the same products, nothing new, but with great advertising).

Oh well. I can honestly say i've had a happy year with WP7, and even if it doesn't amount to anything, i'm glad I tried it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] NCHEVYHEVN:
I agree. I go to Best Buy and Sprint to ask about Windows Phone 7 just to hear some of the responses from the salesman. Best one so far has been, "You know Windows Phone 7 is the worst operating system ever, right?".
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Windows mobile had well over 30k apps, they were just not in a centralized marketplace. Lots of of business apps were developed for windows mobile as well • in house and commercial.

What it lacked was decent hardware support (see hd2), reliability, and later on first party support from influential first parties like Facebook and twitter. The user interface was also terrible for touch screen phones, which didn't help. It was as good as BlackBerry for qwerty devices, imo.

The reason why WP7 isn't doing as well is because its doing as well as it can, actually. If you expected it to dominate you were wrong and it would behoove you to get rid of any Visio s of grandeur you may have. Bottom line is it simply isn't as good ad the fans here would have you believe. It still needs a lot of work and hardware that isn't forgettable to compete with android and iOS.

Sometimes the truth hurts, but it is what it is.

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] Avandor:
You have truth and your own opinion mixed a bit there mate... two totally different things :cool:
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
That is an all-too-common ailment around here, and not just among those perceived as "haters".
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Speed, smoothness, reliability. Your 3.

Then going beyond the 3, better integration of social functions, search functions and email. Messaging is the best of them all. OEM voice nav is so much better. Multitasking is much better. WP7 is more finger friendly and more orderly.

Count those.

EDIT - By the way, here's a big one: The XDA app. iOS doesn't have one, WP7 does. Granted, it's not as good as the Android one, but at least WP7 has one.
[Windows Phone 7 General] arturobandini:
Actually [WinMo + a revamped UI for touch screen phones + Marketplace + More stability] would have been the perfect smartphone.

WinMo was a REAL smartphone. WP7 is f.... locked down and limited.

How I miss USB storage, file explorer, drag & drop, not be bound to my home PC, not to be bound to Zune, etc....

Still, I really love the Metro UI, but the lack of features and storage drive me mad.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
The problem with what you are saying is there's no way to prove it...or it would be very difficult to prove....to count 30,000 apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
I like that WP7 is locked down, I thought winmo was a mess. There just aren't enough developers onboard to get the amount and variety of apps we see on iOS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] pillsburydoughman:
I don't understand the OP. Assuming you have a windows phone why didn't you give that to your mom to try out? If you don't have a windows phone.. well that makes the story even more strange.

Seems your mom was deadset on iphone anyway.
[Windows Phone 7 General] arturobandini:
So, how exactly are you managing your music library when you are away from your PC? E.g. On holiday.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
I would give my mom an iPhone, at the moment the ecosystem makes it the definite choice for any mom unless they read Engadget.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
I don't get your question, my music is on my phone, what is there to manage?
[Windows Phone 7 General] drokkon:
I didn't really get the "wake up" gist of your post…what was your argument, exactly?

For what it's worth, I also see the number of apps as a problem, but only a problem of perception.

I've converted 5 people over to Windows Phone, only one of which had a smartphone before. One of them (a teenager) has probably downloaded dozens of games, but other than that, each of the five probably has under 10 apps. I switched over from WinMo, so I didn't have any favorite iOS or Android apps that I miss. I keep my eye on blogs that review WP7 apps, and I'll snag ones that look particularly interesting, but I honestly only add one new app every six weeks or so. I probably added two dozen in the first week, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with the phone as is.

My point is that new smartphone users aren't going to miss any apps, and iOS/Android adopters probably won't find much to miss. 35,000 and growing is enough for this guy and, indeed, 90%+ of people. I don't know anyone personally (I know they exist) who are constantly combing the marketplace looking for apps.

Where the problem arises is perception. I told my Mom to get a WP7, and she and her husband came home with Androids. I can't remember if they're on T-Mobile or Sprint, but either way the main reason they didn't get WP7 is probably because there was only one WP7 handset at any given store. That said, she DID ask about WP7, and the rep told her "Android has MILLIONS of apps and WP7 has barely any." This was his selling point, as if the sheer number of apps determined the better platform (even though he was off on his figure by at least 1 million).

So as long as people keep thinking that the number of apps = the best smartphone, then WP7's app count, while admirable and enough for most, will continue to be a liability.

PS: Yes, my bank had a WP7 app, a GREAT one, in January or February of this year. USAA ROCKS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
I was commenting on your opinion, which I have read from other places, that some of the OEMs are caving in the face of MS litigation in the fear that they will block them from getting Windows on their PCs. Or at least I read your comment to mean that. Why are they obligated to settle?

But there are plenty of OEMs that are on board with Windows Phone. Besides the launch partners, Fujitsu, ZTE, and Acer joined. We have seen the leaked photos of the Acer W phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thesecondsfade:
So, every major OEM except Motorola? (don't say Dell because they are not a major Mobile OEM) I don't find that odd at all. Your point is that pretty much everyone is STILL making WP7 phones. The settlements are not related... that's related to how Android used patented technology from MSFT.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lovenokia:
i got my mom a focus she doesnt have any apps other than the apps i installled for her she came from an android and hated it too buggy(android 1.6) phone. she loves her Samsung focus now
[Windows Phone 7 General] Freypal:
One of the best real world examples I can think of is away for the weekend one of the girls wanted to check her facebook and a few things on the net etc... Over the course of the day she used my Omnia 7, mates HTC Desire HD and another mates Iphone4.

She had never really used smartphones before and by the end of the day she was asking to use my Omnia 7 to check as she found it the easiest to use.

Great thing is it is so simple to pick up and use. However she will go to a phone store and be sold either an Iphone or Android device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] DarkenCypher:
I love android...but I would like to use a windows phone...I think this Nokia thing will bring the "sex" appeal that the iPhone has. I know as a former regular consumer that pretty phones were sticking out in my mind a lot more than the high spec'd phones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
I believe the Focus is the actual best WP7 phone. Mainly because of the SAMOLED display. SAMOLED really enhances the tile style of WP7...on a black background, that is. But the look and feel of the Focus being held in the hand just pleases so well. The HD7 is a gorgeous phone but lacks the pure black of SAMOLED.

I recommend to anyone interested in WP7 from AT&T to look into a Focus. Give it a little daily use and note the quality of the display. You can also find the Focus for sale unlocked and usable on any GSM network (3G data as well as cell service). WP7 phones are world phones and have the data band frequencies to work on all GSM data services. The only thing limiting a carrier-branded WP7 phone from working on other networks is being sim-locked.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Trekfan422991:
I believe microsofts intention may very well be to move windows 8 to the mobile phone devices... they have windows 8 running on a few arm cpus.. the beauty of this amazing new os that is coming is. That one build... one version of windows 8 will work same across all devices... the os knows what the device environment it is on has and what features to enable or disable ... it is genius... i see a windows 8 build being put on a phone hardware and it recignizing it cant run the desktop mode and just use the metro ui. The same build can then be put on a laptop and it will recognize it can do both but has no touchscreen or celluar service capabilities and excluding that.. it will be quite amazing!!!

This is just mixed stuff i have read around... please dont flame me if i was wrong

Sent from my LG Thrill 4G...
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
That would be cool. There's no reason a desktop PC OS can't be supremely simple and resource light. The only thing that matters is that it runs the programs people need. This would be an excellent evolution of the computer operating system. And if it happens, all of the desktop programs should run on the handheld.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
Typical reaction here, I mention iOS and you answer with an Android comparison. I didn't say I would buy my mom an android phone, I did say iPhone. If one day she wanted a WeightWatchers app (a proper one), a banking app from her bank or some specific stuff like that, she wouldn't be happy with a Windows Phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Strike_Eagle:
The Problem is, all those reps are trained on the iphone and Android class, and Microsoft hasn't opened Windows Phone class yet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ziko:
No comment!!!

And happy dreams about that "so great, wonderfull OS...bla...bla"
[Windows Phone 7 General] BravoMotorola:
I was thinking:

Underdeveloped

Ugly

Closed source
[Windows Phone 7 General] arturobandini:
Interesting.

What's the source for those figures please?
[Windows Phone 7 General] ziko:
Steve Ballmer at Microsoft Worldwide Partner Conference in Los Angeles.

http://www.windows-smartphones.de/tag/marktanteil

---------- Post added at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 PM ----------

Please correct me if i am wrong:

- there is a word, starts with an "s" and ends with an "t" that short describes that disaster above???
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
If your library size is greater than your device capability, you'd get it. IOS solves this with iTunes match. Wp7 does nothing to address it. Google has music beta.

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Samoled is one reason. The focus also has a decent speaker and call quality.

In addition to that it has a bigger battery than a lo of other Wp7 devices. Samsung ruined it with firmware issues that cause delayed updated in comparison to other wp7 devices, though. So I actually wouldn't recommend that phone.

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
the figures font need a source. Its accurate if you look at how market share numbers have progressed over that time span...

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
WP7 has Zune Pass which is way better than any of those things.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
But I don't see what that had to do with my original point about a locked down OS being good, look at iOS. I wasn't talking about storage, I've said many times it is an issue.

---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 PM ----------

Ridiculous statement, what about the songs in your library that are not on Zune marketplace?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
SAMOLED without the "Plus" is crap.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Not really. I used to think that also. But somehow my Focus has improved. Maybe better graphics drivers in Mango, I don't know. To me it looks gorgeous. But I'll still get a Focus S with the SAMOLED+ when it comes out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Fair enough, that would be a problem, although I haven't encountered it yet. If you have an album or two missing its not a big deal. If everything you listen to is missing then yes. Upload it to SkyDrive or something. It's still a better service than either iTunes match or Google music. The latter doesn't even deserve to be called a music service.

---------- Post added at 03:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 AM ----------

It can't improve with drivers unless you mean the color banding thing. Pentile totally screws fonts, giving them fugly tints, and has black spots very visible on white backgrounds.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
There you go again with that F'ing Skydrive spat out everytime someone raises an issue with WP7. It's a magical word, does it also cure cancer?