yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] fsnas:
change name

i think the best way to increase selling WP7 is to change its name!!

people have bad experience with the name (Windows) in their old phones (windows mobile) and it's not because of the OS! but it's all because of the hardware back then (Remember i-mate & Qutek).

so when you say Windows Phone 7, everybody thinks of windows mobile.

as a result, changing the name to e.g. MetroPhone will make a difference!
[Windows Phone 7 General] ebautista:
WP7 is just a fuzz.. lets think about these.

No offense to the people out there because of the title I used. I have android and wp7 and once used IPhone. there are things that we need to analyze. 1. How useful the phone is (OS bundled) for everyday life and during the times we really need it, 2. How it fit to our personal preferences(customizability) and the most important is 3: Support from the OEM and Vendors.

1. How many people are using SKYPE? Do you know that Skype don't have push notification is WP7? Neither have background task? Meaning you cannot receive offline calls or messages. Because MS and SKYPE are not doing something about it. And I believe there a still lots of Software companies out there that cannot provide WP7 softwares.

2. WP7 Mango is fast, smooth and responsive. BUT, it is because the OS is very strict when it comes to multi tasking unlike Iphone and Android. They said it's part of the infrastructure. Okay. That is why it is not meant enough for customizations. And that is what some OEMs are requesting to have. To make their own Manufacturing Brand out of WP7 OS. This is part of their business strategies you know (It's like MS is owning their phones now). IPhone have customizations also when JB and most of all Android. Even though you customized them, Iphone is still smooth and with the latest version of Android and with the help of open source community, it is becoming smoother on every updates.

3. IPhone gives updates to generations prior to the latest. Android have large communities and of course OEMS or Carriers are giving upgrades even for phones few generations back. Up to now MS is not giving upgrades to the phones unlike the two previously mentioned. Most of 1st generations of WP7 were not upgraded to WP7 Mango. And up to now 2nd generations are not clear if they will have upgrade of WP8. So for EOMs or Carriers who have not sell out most of their phones will have big lost(Too bad) if MS will not provide upgrade.

These are just few things I have in mind. And still analyzing what does MS is doing. Are they aiming to monopolize the phone industry as what they did in the software industry and hardware industry?

I am not against MS.

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

even if you change it,,, the owner is still the same. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] anseio:
This is not true. MOST 1st gen phones are upgradeable and/or were upgraded to Mango. It's the carriers who may not have pushed it out. Also, Apple does update the older hardware to the newer OS versions, but I've read all over the place that these updates run more poorly than previous versions. WP7 updates on old hardware have made them faster and more responsive.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
I am not qualified to challenge points 2 and 3 because my experience with iOS is limited to the Sprint 4S I carry for work. Can't stand it and I use it exclusively for phone calls and emails (worst email client ever, BTW). However, your first point is the most critical one and you limit yourself to Skype only.

First and foremost, these are phones. Call quality is dictated by and large by the carriers and the coverage in your area. Speaker volume and ringtones is the domain of the phone itself so that's a valid starting point. How does WP7 compare to Android and iOS? Depends on your model. Day-to-day activities for most people involves calls, SMS, email and social networking. Personally, I love the large tiles. The people hub is a one-stop shopping for all these activities. The Office hub takes care of all my work-related needs. Neither Android or iOS is as user-friendly as WP7 for these basic functions and I think I speak for the majority of WP7 users when I say this. Only webOS was more intuitive but that's another matter altogether.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
I was about to take this post seriously (not an easy task) and write a fully blown reply to it, but then I read this

and I thought "scratch that, not worth my time".
[Windows Phone 7 General] ebautista:
I like your point there. Because Skype owned or if not, partially owned, by MS. They owned it so they should know how to control it (Why Tango have the feature we need in skype? Why IM+ have notification in skype protocol?). Some softwares like Opera, Firefox or Chrome or other alternative( why? HTML5 issues - most mobile sites are not working properly on it WP7's IE9 ), Viber with call, instagram(good thing was bought by fb but not clear yet to have on wp7), real youtube app, pandora, tapatalk, life360, the fully functional facebook app, mint.com, logmein, teamviewer, amazon, etc.. ( i think i missed more :) ) and Oh, do you know that skype lowers down the volume when video calling in WP7?

-- but i preferred not to mention it. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
Obviously you have a real problem with Skype and that's fair, you need it. YouTube, no flash in IE9 - known fail. Tapatalk, Board Express handles it. Amazon, it's there as well as Amazon Kindle. Facebook, are you kidding? It's better than any of the others. Android's a joke, it doesn't even sync FB photos with contacts without another app. No wonder Android has a gazzilion apps, none do the job properly.

I have beefs with WP7 like anybody else. The inability to attach a PDF to an email is unforgivable on Adobe's part. I have to use Handyscan and save as a PDF to be able to email so it's not the mail client, it's Adobe.

The camera software is by and large, junk. My 10,000 year-old iPAQ with a 1.3mp CMOS takes MUCH better pictures. Then again, HP included the Photosmart software. WP7 is still having growing pains but if we band together and address our grievances in a professional, civilized matter I think we have a better chance of MS listening. B!tch like a bunch of tweeners who didn't get tickets to the Justin Bieber concert and we're screwed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
32 pages long? Why is this still a topic? We need to stop looking at the problem from a nerd perspective and think like the average consumer.

What is on the market currently? iOS, Android, and BB.

Do current offerings fulfill the users needs? Yes.

Does Windows Phone offer anything significantly different and better to pull average users from what they already know? No.

Windows Phone is new, and different. It will take some time. But it makes no sense to cite that because it carries a "Microsoft" or "Windows" name people are turned away from it. Yea, cuz Windows 7 was a disaster. Because Windows 8 will be a disaster. :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
Ford vs. Chevy, Red Sox vs. Yankees, the list goes on and on. People will always feel the need to defend their positions and this is no different. 32 pages is nothing compared to tastes great or less filling.
[Windows Phone 7 General] benthe1:
Android does sync Facebook contacts without another app. What're you smoking?

The main problem with WP7 is WP7. Let's stop blaming carriers, sales people, Adobe, Obama, our dog and cat, etc, and face the fact that it's just not up to par with Android and iOS. The UI is not user friendly, it lacks many common apps (and functionally in many of the apps they do have. ie. Ebay), lack of customization (even more so than iOS), multitasking sucks, notifications are crap, etc. When MS addresses these things, then it might actually have a chance. Until then, it won't ever take off and stay at the 3-6% market share that it's currently at.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
It is you my friend who needs to lay off the crippie. I said Facebook for Android doesn't sync FB PHOTOS with contacts. You need fsync or similar to do that. Right now only WP7 and webOS do it out of the box.
[Windows Phone 7 General] benthe1:
That's funny. Because my Facebook contact photos are perfectly synced with my contacts WITHOUT another app. So...you were saying?
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
You can put a red X through blackberry now. Its ios, android, vs whoever has a $1 / contract phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
The marketing support from the sales people and carriers was nonexistent prior to the Lumia 900. You really think you can launch a new operating system with scant marketing? Not only was the marketing nonexistent the carrier sales force actively steered people away from WP 7 towards whatever device they themselves were already using.

Are you another Andriod fanboy? Please see my signature.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drill_sarge:
It's not popular because it came out too late. Thats all. iOS and Android have gotten public attention for years where MS was stuck in a niche with WM6.5.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
By this logic, ios and android should be unpopular niche os's, because symbian, wm, and blackberry were popular once.
[Windows Phone 7 General] benthe1:
I'm a fanboy of whatever is best for my needs/wants. It used to be webOS, now it's Android. I do currently own a WP7 device(running Mango mind you), and that's where I get my opinion. My preferred OS is based on a few things; speed, apps, multitasking capabilities, hardware that meets my needs, customization, and battery life. While Android might not be king of all my criteria, it is for most of them and second on the ones that aren't.

WP7's biggest strength is it's biggest weakness. It's UI. It's fresh, new, and different. But it's also boring, takes too many steps to get from one app to the next, and is not user friendly.

So yeah, I might be and Android fanboy but at least I'm not in denial. I only comment on WP7 forums to realize why WP7 isn't taking off.
[Windows Phone 7 General] anseio:
Though I understand the point you're trying to make, the Smoked By Windows Phone proves otherwise on that WP7 is remarkably user friendly. It may not met your usability needs, but don't confuse that with userfriendliness.
[Windows Phone 7 General] benthe1:
Smoked by WP7 is not really a good comparison to go off of. Where's why: mobile.informationweek.com/80269/show/3846b62729fad36510ac6af7d3ce6a25/

By user friendliness I mean for anyone to be able to pick up a device and start using it without much explanation. The obvious winner is iOS but after that I would argue it's a tie between Android and webOS. It has to do with where apps are installed and how quickly you can get to them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] anseio:
I gotta say that for the average geek around here, Android may make perfect sense. I know plenty of non-geeky people who have android devices and they can't figure out the most basic function. To lay WP7 beneath Android in terms of user friendliness doesn't seem right at all, when it is easy to use from the getgo.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
Oh god, please don't apply you're own ineptitude as the gold standard for everyone on the planet. :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
I have to disagree on that one, 5 times with 5 different people I know that have moved from a feature phone to a smartphone have been "sold" (read pushed) an android phone from some spotty know it all kid in a shop, in each instance ive been called up to show them how it works, whilst I was there, I gave them my phone to play with, whilst I went about setting up theirs I asked them to play with my WP.

With Absolutely no help what so ever, they picked up how it works and asked where I got it and what it was.

Lesson for the day, WP if nothing else is very easy to use, id even say its possibly one of the easiest to use.

What WP lacks as ive said before is a good PR company, MSs marketing sucks, if you had to name one thing across all its products that could attribute to that products poor performance it will be marketing. Money obviously cant buy sense :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] thebobp:
Wait, so you're saying that someone who couldn't set up apps on their own phone, got your fully-setup phone to play with, and ended up with the impression it was easier? I wonder why..

I mean, think about it. Had I given them my Galaxy Nexus, they would've thought it was about as easy, but that wouldn't really have been an honest setup, now would it?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
Clearly all those talking of having difficulty in finding and setting up apps have never used WP7. For a start, WP7 is task and people orientated. Everything you need for phone, sms, email, social networking is built into the OS and integrated into the home screen tiles e.g. people hub. All apps have a consistent UI so once you've got to grips with one, you can use them all. As for setup time, all you have to do to get up and running is enter your user credentials in the start up wizard. That's it, job done.

Compared to that, Android is confused mess. Whilst it's fine for geeker tweakers, compared to other platforms it's a disorganised hotch-potch of random apps thrown into a bucket with zero integration.

Prime example - if Android is so straight forward and user friendly, why does it have two separate programs for email and gmail?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
Yes, but on (vanilla) Android you have to download, install and configure Twitter, Facebook, Gmail, Hotmail etc. apps separately and there's no integration between the accounts or consistency in their menus or look and feel. How does that make it more efficient or user friendly?

What can be simpler than an alphabetical list of apps (with automatic A-Z shortcuts when it gets long) if you need to venture away from the home screen? (OK - I'll admit folders would be a bonus).

You still haven't answered my question. If Android setup and use is so straightforward, why does it have two different apps for email?

And if Android is so user friendly why do all the major manufacturers feel the need to hide its front end and make their phones "easier to use" with bloated overlays such as Sense, TouchWiz, Timescape, Blur, Breeze, OptimusUI etc?
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Let us keep it respectful guys.

Is the UI for Windows Phone Boring? Compared to Android yes. Compared to iOS? Cmon guys, iOS is like using Windows 3.1 - a bunch of icons on a background.

Is the UI for Window phone intuitive? Critics cannot have it both ways. You want to make the argument that it is simple and boring and they try to convince us it is hard to understand? Considering how much Metro UI deviates from other OS UIs, it is very easy to understand where things are and what they do.

iOS - simple UI presentation where most input is done by swiping across home screens and pressing on icons. Biggest drawback is Apple is so damn minimal when it comes to the look of the hardware (one home button) you have to rely on the software to provide functionality.

Android - flexible UI presentation where users can have it anyway they want. Biggest drawback is it can get out of hand.

Windows Phone - simple UI presentation which attempts to minimize the number of steps to get where you want to go. Can feel restrictive and animations/transitions can become annoying.
[Windows Phone 7 General] _Variable:
Thanks for te laughs on ehw Windows 3.1 part. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] thebobp:
You've, unfortunately, completely missed the point, which was that, with a good pre-setup, any system can be easy.

Unfortunately, you've reduced the scenario to talking about the most basic pre-setup (phone, sms, email), which is really available for any os, and this one killer feature (people hub). While I understand that you just want to tout positives as much as you can, this isn't usually a complete setup.

---------- Post added at 03:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

You might as well ask: why does wp7 have twitter apps (plural)? What happened to that integrated "people hub" you were just bragging about?

The answer is unfortunate: integration invariably is not perfect. Supporting every feature of every email and social client (starring in gmail, for example, unless that's since been added) is a monumental task. The only real hope I can see of keeping up is if the designers of the hub also controlled all the social networking, which, aside from being implausible, is also probably undesirable.

To top this problem up, forcing a unified interface creates inflexibility. Gmail stars, for example, have no natural analogue in facebook (the closest you can get are "likes", which don't act nearly the same). This is why it often makes more sense to delegate such features to their own apps, and why such apps are able to support more features.

So, you asked why android has a separate "gmail" app? Because the gmail app is meant to support gmail features, dur. Just like carbon is meant to support more twitter features, etc.
[Windows Phone 7 General] anseio:
Used Android before and can tell you this about it vs. WP7:

When you install an app in Android, you stay in the Market/Play and are given options to open/uninstall. It doesn't actually show you where the app is installed, but you know it's going to be somewhere in the large grid of apps listed alphabetically.

When you install an app/game on WP7... IT TAKES YOU TO THE EXACT LOCATION OF THE INSTALL and shows you the installation progress. You know if it's in the games hub or in the apps list by where it takes you at install.

Perhaps, just perhaps, you might want to spend a little more time making sure you know how to use WP7 before accusing any of us that we don't know how to use Android.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
The point you miss is that for many people, the out of the box WP7 feature set does provide a complete setup! It does all the essentials (phone, email, sms, facebook, twitter) with one easy setup, and with no extra apps to download. All the apps are integrated with each other, including unified email for POP/IMAP/Exchange (including gmail), and you can see all your interactions with your contacts all from one place. No confusion there about which email app to use.

Maybe, but few people use every feature of every service and it is widely accepted that WP7 has the best and most complete contact and social integration of the lot with the most intuitive interface (apart from possibly WebOS). Sure you have the choice of dedicated apps if you want to do more, but for many, there is simply no need, as unlike Android, 90% of what most people need is already built into the core of the phone.

And you still haven't answered, if the usability of Android to the general populous is so intuitive, why do nearly all handset manufacturers feel the need to hide it under their own "user friendly" bloatware?
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Well technically the download is shown in the notification bar of Android. But you are right; it does not show you where it will end up. Even iOS shows you on the homescreen the resting place, with a bar that fills and a transparent icon.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thebobp:
You mean, make an announcement that WP will have no more apps, and "many" people who have WP7 would still buy it?

How incredulous.

What, "few people" star their emails? Unfollow people?

Stop justifying limitations to try to pretend something is perfect.

Edit: hidden due to irrelevancy

Product differentiation. It doesn't matter how intuitive the stock interface gets, the manufacturers will still try to put their own recognizable brand on it.

The same thing is true for HTC and Nokia WP's. The former, for example, stick their own "HTC Hub" on it (where you'll get a treatment looking very much like Sense). The real question is "why didn't they change it more?" and that's because microsoft wants to preserve their own branding. It has nothing to do with "usability", and I have no idea how you even came up with such an idea.
[Windows Phone 7 General] anseio:
Whereas HTC and Nokia are shooting for product differentiation, they don't get to do so in overall look and UI. They get apps and hubs. Android is completely skinned over making Motoblur and Sense look nothing like each other. Which button gets to the app menu? I get confused. /s :P
[Windows Phone 7 General] thebobp:
Agreed (though I still find the app menus obvious for some reason), and that's what I said :p:

Fortunately, us users can just download a new launcher. For the win!
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
Not just skinned though are they? Sense, Touchwiz and Blur etc. are complete, CPU hogging executables. If all they wanted to do was branding they could have done that with themes - and that still wouldn't tackle the lack of synergy between stock apps. Developing and maintaining a whole replacement front end isn't cheap, and they all cite improved usability and productivity as their reason d'etre to make the complexities of stock Android less daunting to those moving over from feature phones.

Not everybody wants to spend all day downloading and configuring apps or launchers, and tweaking phone layouts. Some would just prefer a one time setup that keeps them in touch with all their contacts and social networks in a fast, intuitive and efficient (i.e. task orientated) manner so that they can just get on with their life. That's where WP7 excels, as shown by the high user satisfaction ratings. It's unlikely, however, to fully satisfy inveterate tweakers those who spend much of their time on smartphone developers' site and forums.

Personally, I chop and change and use several platforms to stop me getting bored and to suit the purpose, so feel well placed to see the pros and cons of each. Looking back at my usage, in general it's a WP7 phone that lets me get things done and catches me up with "life", and Android that comes out when I want to try new things and play. Then there's WebOS when I want to feel nostalgic, and Symbian when I need a good camera phone - all get regular use!
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
And Windows Mobile when you're on your way to the in-laws. Just to get you in the mood. JK, I still use WM.
[Windows Phone 7 General] morpheuszg:
Soo, if you really do own a WP7 device, why didn't you notice that the installation of an app automatically opens the place where it's being installed. Installation of an app takes you to the applist and games to the Xbox hub. Now I am wondering why you bring up such an argument which is simply false. And that takes me to the point that you simply don't own a WP device.

That disqualifies you for a serious discussion. And this shows me your intolerance against us, who like WP in it's entirety. And it really doesn't matter if Android is better than WP or not. Every person has different likings and opinions. You don't like WP and guess what? I do respect that. So, get on with your OS that you like most and stop getting personal in discussions.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
I am far removed from my software engineering days, but while there are certain things that are intuitive there are some things that have become standard. And there is a difference.

Double clicking a home/back/hardware button to bring up a task manager is not intuitive. Neither is short pressing the power button to lock the screen. An icon on the home screen that says task manager is intuitive. A hardware button that is labeled with a lock would be.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I find Windows Phone 7.5 pretty easy to use. The screen dwarfs the iphone and the icons on the home screen are mostly big and easy to figure out. How hard is a big square icon that says "Phone" to figure out? How hard is it to figure out a big square icon that says "hotmail?"

I pin my most used contacts to the home screen. If I need to email, text, or call someone I just touch their picture. How hard is that?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
You mean that "fully featured" gmail app that can't even do pinch to zoom on HTML content?