yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
To determine if an OS has shortcomings, and they all do, you first have to see if the customer feels that way. This post is 43 pages long now so I don't remember who it was that posited that 50% of phone users don't even have smartphones. That, in itself, is a telling story, if accurate. We here on XDA are enthusiasts and therefore critique a little more harshly. The average consumer, there's that phrase again, probably doesn't give a hairy rat's ass about apps. As long as they can make phone calls, send texts and MMS, check email and an occasional Facebook and/or Twitter post or Instagram upload, they're happy. We are tinkerers here and so we moan about WP7's lack of customization. The Android crowd loves to beat us over the head about it (I think they masturbate thinking about it) and the iCrowd thinks their sh!t don't stink. To be honest, my dream phone would have WM6.1 running on today's equipment. Between SPB and Resco, WM is the most customizable OS out there, period. I wish MS would have built on WM's strengths instead of a clean slate. You want to download an app, WM will ask you where exactly do you want it. Android? No. iPhone? No. Blackberry? GTFO here. Reg edits? Heaven on Earth. You asked if WP has caught up to Android and iOS in features and apps, well in my dreamland it would have been a non-issue.

I'm getting long-winded here so I'll cut it short. You're right, WP7 doesn't give a compelling reason to switch but my question is why? Why switch if you're happy and familiar with what you have? For us aficionados, we'll switch platforms for a singular app. Myself, I've been on all of them. Palm OS, webOS, BB, iOS, Android, Symbian, WM & WP7. Something tells me I'll be on Apollo soon and probably check out BB10, just for sh!ts and giggles.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Sit, you kind of dodged the statement though. We know Blackberry is going down the crapper, but they do make good qwerty phones. Good business phones. Just not desireable phones to the non-enterprise consumer.

Ineedtoys, I am reading what you are saying but there seems to be a disconnect. Let us try to understand the consumer:

Consumers will conceptualize things in a way they can understand if they do not understand how it works. That is human nature. I remember when phones were making the transition from external antennas to internal (to be stuck in sales :( ). The average customer believed that a phone with an external antenna would give them better reception and less dropped calls. Same thing in the wireless router world. Because logically if the antenna thingy is what receives signal, the bigger the better. Well with improved antenna design and asthetics no phone uses an "external" antenna design.

The point? If you have to explain something then you are one step behind in sales. I understand your point about the many ways Spot can be prominently displayed on the phone, but do not be surprised if some customers are not going to accept that. I understand what you are saying fully but I would like you to see that some customers know one thing and they expect that thing.

And I am not claiming the marketing for WP (minus the Lumia) has been good. But that is not the reason why it is not doing well. Ultimately, Windows Phone is not doing well because the OS got off to a bad start. Lacked many basic features (no custom ringtones) and necessary apps. It has come a long way fast, but the OEMs and carriers were/are not willing to put effort into something new when something older was working better.

I believe WP will be successful. Fastest growing app catalogue. Tons of features added in updates. A rich daddy who is committed to its success. A totally original UI. And most importantly, tighter controls than the Android madness. It is the right mix of Android (variety of phones) and iOS (standardized). I am a fan. I cannot wait to get a Lumia 900.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
ok, this thread has exploded since I last past by, just a suggestion, lets all take a breather before it gets personal and before it gets shut down

So, since im now completely confused what everyone's actual opinion is, lets reset and the next post we put on here is a single word or very short sentence rounding up the single MAIN reason you feel WP isn't popular, there are many reasons but lets just go for the one that's probably had the biggest effect.

We've had a good debate about it already and perhaps others have suggested something that you hadn't considered before, and finally, Perhaps if we don't scare off other members we can get some new suggestions on the subject

So!

In my humble opinion

Marketing, more specifically Initial marketing before WP was released and everything since is the single Biggest reason its not so popular
[Windows Phone 7 General] AndyFZ1S:
In my honest opinion, Bad Press, So many people who have never even used it slate it through either word of mouth or internet forums :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
The reason WP is not popular is because of Android and iOS. A three year headstart, bigger offering, and dominant marketshare is the reason why everyone is losing share to them, especially to Android.

Microsoft sponsored the Superbowl, and ran the "Really?" commercials on every network I was watching. Back in Nov 2010 they were marketing a phone with no custom ringtones, no c&p, no video calling, and many missing apps. Better marketing was supposed to help those phones sell?

Really? ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
Ha! Lets not detract just yet! (we had very little in UK so perhaps regionally it has different reasons)
[Windows Phone 7 General] _Variable:
Name 20 free apps that aren't social networks/chinese name apps
[Windows Phone 7 General] Andy:
Lets not get into this. It will only end one way and it will not benefit you both.
[Windows Phone 7 General] zlayaa:
My belief is that Windows Phone 7 isn't popular because.. it's not popular.

I tried to imagine how the buying process of a new phone could be for someone who is not interested in tech. So I thought, what would my friends do? They would ask someone interested in phones of what phone they should get, often that means: me. What would I answer? I'd tell about the phones I know and recommend those I like. Then the person might go to a store and ask a salesman about those phones that I recommended.

The problem is highlighted above. What's the chance that the customer has been recommended a Windows Phone 7 device over an Android one? With a market share of 5% (Forbes 2012) the probability that he or she talked with a WP7 fan is low.

How should this be solved? Well, better marketing might have a marginal effect as it would rise the general awareness. But as previously said by others, WP7 seems to have been marketed pretty heavily without any effect. Instead I believe that people need to play with it.

I remember the first time I played with a WP7 phone, I was very impressed by its smooth and snappy UI. The same thing seems to happen with people seeing my HD2, I've multiple times got questions from totally non-tech people asking "what phone is that?" after seeing me swipe through menus. It doesn't look like the other phones, it looks cool and is fast: that seems to wake interest. When I had Android running on the same phone it never raised the same interest.

Therefor I think that salesmen have an important role here, don't just show one platform as some salesmen seem to do, show all the alternatives!
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
Well I won't get into to an argument over it, because there's nothing to argue. But I will answer the question because it may be of interest to other prospective WP owners who may be watching this thread.

You can easily see all the free apps (and, for that matter, paid apps) available for Windows Phone by going to

Windows Marketplace

(change region in the top right corner if not in the UK).

You don't need to log in to browse.

Categories include

entertainment

music + video

tools + productivity

lifestyle

children + family

news + weather

travel + navigation

health + fitness

photos

social

sports

personal finance

business

books + reference

education

government + politics

So there is plenty to chose from without having to pay a penny.

My favourite free app at the moment is Sports Tracker (because it also works and keeps in sync with workouts on all my other phones).
[Windows Phone 7 General] trappxl:
My 2 cents: i agree that WP isn't popular because it's an OS where you need to play with it. Here's one thing that often kills me as a WP user for my daily driver: lack of carrier support. Microsoft needs at least 1 high end phone on each of the 4 major US carriers.

I'm in the US on T-Mobile. I own a Samsung Focus S and a Nexus S. Whenever people see me use my Focus S, they actually are impressed at the UI. I put the phone in their hands and let them thumb through it. I chat up the people hub, the local scout feature, the killer email app and the live tiles. They enjoy the exeperience. The problem is that because I get 2G on T-Mobile, when you have someone go online the browser is slow. Most average consumers will not understand that its a network issue and not the phone itself why the internet is slow. When they ask about apps I try to listen to what they use and be honest about apps in WP. For the most part they respect the UI but are scared to make the jump as they will miss out on "their favorite apps".

Microsoft needs to continue to bake as much things into the OS itself as possible. Apple and Google have branded the consumer into being app driven. I sell Bing Search hard to folks to show them that i have 4 apps in 1...and that for most basic features why hop from app to app like in iOS and Android?

Microsoft needs to do three things to make WP more popular:

1. Develop more cross platform apps. Get some more of the popular developers to make WP apps, and even try to bake in some WP exclusive features.

2. Bake more into the OS. MMS should send and receive. Add a few more accent colors. Add 3D icons as options. Add font colors to certain parts of the UI. Add the damn battery percent!

3. Stop having OEMs make minimum required handsets! And maybe, gasp, using pentaband radios!
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
Mus admit I've encountered this myself too. Especially the lack of "Draw Something". Fortunately most people I know got bored of that after a month and it's gone the way of all other fads. The core functions and apps that they really need are still there of course.
[Windows Phone 7 General] blimblim809:
Pros and Cons between Android and Windows Phone 7

Windows 7:

Pros:

It’s Compatible with windows.

Has a Larger Screen.

A complete OS.

Xbox and windows games can be turned portable.

This OS can be used on other devices.

The Music system ‘’Metro’’ looks kind of Zune.

Wi-Fi router.

Cons:

No specific software platform.

Market apps still don’t works well.

No flash support.

Weaker search engine.

Not-open source.

Quite slow to browse.

Applications are hard to install.

Less games and softwares.

Android:

Pros:

Uses Open source

Huge market proliferation (ensuring compatibility and development)

Lots of app market.

Stable and faster Linux kernel.

Stronger search engine.

Cons:

No good video player.

No good audio player.

No Wi-Fi proxy support.

Hard to copy and paste between apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] benthe1:
Dang! I thought you said short list... Lol.

Anyway, when WP reaches 10% market share, I will be surprised, though, I haven't seem WP8 so I might change my mind if it impresses me.
[Windows Phone 7 General] aranurea:
I love Android and IMO is better than any other phone OS, but you gotta give WP7 respect. It actually comes really close to Android's position for me. I just love the simplicity and sleekness of WP7 and would pay much money to get an actual WP7 phone. Never mind, it's just as good as Android. I even tried to make my phone look like a WP7 phone by using a custom launcher.
[Windows Phone 7 General] aranurea:
Funny how it took Apple 4 years to get wallpapers into their OS. I guess what Steve Jobs meant by going "thermonuclear" was "copy what ever the competition has".
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
Quit lying about Windows Phone!

Get a Lumia 900. It comes with Nokia Drive free.

Jesus Christ dude! Go into your people hub and create a group called favorites. Add you favorite numbers to that group. Pin that group to the home screen. Damn it!!! People ***** and complain that there is no customization on the phone and then refuse to use the customization Microsoft built in!

Day two I had custom ring tones on my phone... for free. Will you stop posting lies and actually figure out how to work your phone? Google it!

Let me guess you are one of those people that says Windows Phone lacks customization.

I am so furious I am not even going to address this anymore.

Once you have the Camera set up the way you want hit save. Not hard.

Buy a Windows Phone with a keyboard then. It's a free country.

Lie

Lie.

I was going to post more but I was just getting too pissed off. So many of the "Cons" are 100% lies. The rests are just one user's opinion and if MSFT had made the features the way this one user wants them 10 more people would come on here and complain they want it a different way.

Seriously do people pull this garbage in the Android section? Legitimate shortcomings are things we can discuss. What is the point of totally making up lies about a phone OS? Did this OS do something to you?
[Windows Phone 7 General] thebobp:
Transparency, duh. But I suppose it could be hard to see when one's never had it.

Here's a better example (even though, tbh, I think it was obvious enough from mine in the first place):
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
I love fishing, it's a year-round activity here in Miami. I wish that all species would hook a trolling line as easily as you just did. That troll got you and I mean but good! Why do you bother with these morons? Do you enjoy having high blood pressure? Come on playa' you know better than that!

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 PM ----------

Can't take away from the fact that it's a much better looking home screen than what WP7 gives you. My question is, why does Android need to have an app that simulates WP7 and then have Android trolls *****, whine and complain about the "ugly" Metro UI?
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
I'm confused.

I'm not really as pissed off as I typed. I said that more just for emphasis. I'm more confused and curious than anything. I wonder if that post was just a purposeful bit of trolling or if the poster really believes that stuff. It's a lot of effort to put into a post either way. And one person doing it is kind of odd, but like clock work every few weeks for no particular reason someone pops up and quite loudly and emphatically says something that is 100% false. What is the point?
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Are you being fair? Are the same Android people that are running Windows Phone themes on Android the same people talking about Windows Phone being ugly? Probably not.

Cmon guys.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
Agreed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
When Android people stop talking out of their ass about WP7, I'll do the same about them. So yes, I'm being more than fair. If you have an Android phone and use a WP7 theme on it, then accept my personal apology to you, and you only.

---------- Post added at 02:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------

Another big fish caught in the troll line.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
Doesn't bother me. Happy to put the record straight for posterity those that come across this thread later. After all, despite the recent influx of idiots, XDA is still prime source of information for people looking for genuine knowledge on the phones, and there must be plenty of people who think that WP7 hasn't moved on since launch.

The original review is here.

---------- Post added at 07:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 PM ----------

I won't deny it makes the home screen look prettier. But I still can't see it as a must have if that's the only criteria someone puts on buying a phone! Still, each to his own.

As for Launcher7, I sometimes use it myself on my Android phone (have bought the Pro edition), when I'm in a WP7 frame of mind and haven't got the 7Pro with me (for example, the big tiles are really useful when in the car). And to some extent (as a program launcher not integrator) it builds on WP7 well buy adding folders and (slightly) resizeable tiles. So well done to the devs for that. Resizeable tiles are in Windows 8 so there may be a chance of that making it over to WP8. No Metro icon folder support so far on W8 though, which IMO would be a missed opportunity if left as is.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
I was only fu**ing with you on the trolling bit. It's funny how some predominantly WP7 users have Android, iOS or something else as a secondary device but that feeling isn't always mutual from the people who use those devices as their primary phone. The way they come across is almost as if we're supposed to be ashamed of using Windows.

So WP7 is missing some apps, specs & functionalities. So what? If it works for some, so be it. I like my WinMo phone because of some functions missing in all other OS's but I don't go around bashing Android or any other system for it. I love WP7 for the Office & Skydrive integration, period. My work iPhone has a really nice mapping app, but that's as far as my good graces go for iOS. Mail & contacts are a cluster**** and a half. Android does a lot of things well, but to get things working optimally is sometimes an exercise in frustration. I like things to work right the first time, out of the box, and Android just isn't there yet.

But as you said, to each his own.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
Agree with all of that 100%. My TP2 is still in a drawer. I only started looking for alternatives because it's always been sluggish since they shoe-horned in WM6.5 and prone to "wait while I have a think" hangups just when you least need it. Compared to the fluidity and speed of the (yes) the iPhone it and the other 528MHz WM phones were really starting to show their age. By the time 1Ghz WM phones (HD2, TG01) had got to market, we were already on the WP7 and Android bandwagon and there was simply no point buying anything WM.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
Looks like a bland, cheap knock off to me.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
Nah, no apologies needed, but I was one of those Android guys running 7 Loader on my Motorola. But that was like putting Tofu on the grill with some BBQ sauce and calling it a T bone steak.

But two wrongs never made a right. I know it is the cliche stuff you are told as a kid, but the thing that makes WP people so wonderful is we are different than the sheep and the droid elitist. If you love Windows Phone you sure are not following the crowd or flaunting your 9 inches of tech ;) When (not if) Windows Phone becomes the in thing, we will be the ones who understood from the very beginning.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
You've got to be the biggest fanboy out there if you can't admit it looks better than the actual Metro.

---------- Post added at 07:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------

Forget the 528 processors, most WM devices were running a measly 128 megs of RAM and some 6.1 devices ran on 64! Imagine 512 megs on ANY WinMo. I bet that TP2 in your drawer would be on your belt holster instead. BTW, I never liked 6.5 on any device, I always preferred 6.1 with a shell (SPB).
[Windows Phone 7 General] geddeeee:
iOS is definitely NOT 'user friendly'. Borrowed my brother's iPhone t'other day, and couldn't use it. All I was trying to do was make a phone call!!!

Android??? Is that POS still around??? Left that behind years ago. Too much 'eye candy' and not enough functionality.

I want my phone to be quick, slick and useable. That's why I got a WP7 based phone. It works. If I want loads of pretty stuff with bells, whistles and the kitchen sink, I'll use my PC!!!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] fatclue:
9" of tech? Who are you, Tommy Lee? WTF are you doing here on these boards? I know what I'd be doing, and a computer wouldn't be part of it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] pimppoet:
I didnt jump right on android because I was a wm user waiting for wp7 & wanted the tp3. Data plans requirements also kept me away android at the time. I liked ms's approach on bypassing the carrier bloatware,having min specs,& the idea of faster updates. I was all for it untill all the rumors of basically copying iphone were proven true. Some wp7 users are quick to point out androids/iphones problems but refuse to acknowledge wp7 shortcomings by saying they dont care for it or its not needed. Just because ms choose to drop wm in favor of a kin 2 project doesnt mean thats an excuse to leave out missing features. Im still interested in wp7 & watch out for updates. Improvments within all the software/hardware makers breeds competion & helps to insure a better overall experience regardless of os.

Edit: ms shouldve have kept wm & marketed wp under a different name.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
IOS.....removed

Android.....removed

WP7 , what is it doing quick and slick for you ? Find the positive. There's more to a phone than flicking the ui around... tell us.
[Windows Phone 7 General] geddeeee:
Well.... let's see.. Um, it makes phone calls when I press the 'phone' icon. Messages, when I press the 'message' icon. E-mails when I press the..... Well you get the point. All without wading through different pages or waiting for the CPU to catch up with the pretty graphics.

People love their iPhones or their Android based phone. Great. I prefer WP7. My choice..... ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
Wtf. Why is fanboyism the per se reason for disliking that image? I'll admit there's a bias but it has less to do with being a fanboy than it does with having used Windows Phone for well over a year.

Comparing the two Launcher 7 looks less aesthetically appealing to me: the font, certain icons, and the fact that there's an ugly background image like a feature phone distracting me from the importance of the live tiles (it removes focus).

There may have been a time where I might've agreed with you, but I understand where my sense of aesthetics lie and Launcher 7 is not it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Ineedtoys:
One quick example. I get an email from someone. I have hundreds of contacts and emails a day so I need to refresh my memory about this guy before I reply. I tap on his name. Up pop all his contact details in the Profile tab, with the immediate option to respond by Call, SMS, email, Facebook, Linked In, or Twitter.

Not only that, but I can see there's a History tab listing all the interactions I've had with that person, via any network, even down to his (and his friends') posts and photo tags on Facebook.

If that wasn't enough, there's the What's New tab which shows all the latest updates he has made on any of the social networks you share.

Finally there's the Pictures tab which lets you see all the photos in his shared albums.

All this info from one tap on his name in the email, and insanely fast to flick and flip between the People Hub sub-screens. No need to remember which app to open. No need to jump back and forth between apps. No cluttered screens with dozens of randomly-placed cryptic icons and program names for you to decipher. It's all tied together for you. In just a few seconds it's armed you with all the background info you need. Now all you have to do is think about what to say in reply.

That's what makes WP7 so brilliant for seamlessly managing your personal, as well as business contacts and communications. In other words, the people - not machines - that shape and enrich your life. For that, no other OS comes close.
[Windows Phone 7 General] juzz86:
This is the second warning for this thread.

Keep the discussion on track, and keep the useless crap out of it - or lose it.