yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
Except the numbers have been out on kal-el for several months now. So no, you're wrong.

http://www.droid-life.com/2011/02/1...obile-processor-headed-for-tablets-by-august/

Kalel processor is 5x faster than Tegra 2. This is stated by nvidia themselves.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4940/qualcomm-new-snapdragon-s4-msm8960-krait-architecture

NVIDIA Tegra 3/Kal-El	40nm	4 x ARM Cortex A9 w/ MPE @ ~1.3GHz	GeForce++	1 x 32-bit LPDDR2	Q4 2011

So yes. It's the same core as the Tegra, clocked faster, and they added the NEON instruction sets. Fun fact, every single other A9 based SoC had the NEON instruction set except the Tegra 2.

Single-threaded performance

Droid 2X scores 41.115, SGS2 scores 57.4. Let's assume that a 30% increase in clock speed nets you 30% increased performance. This won't actually be true in reality. It would be closer to 10-15%. The Tegra 2/3 should, at 1.3GHz clock, net you a score of 53.4495. Still slower than the 57.4 scored by the Exynos at a lower clock of 1.2GHz.

Here's the multi-threaded performance for comparison.

Can't really draw any conclusions as you can't really extrapolate going from 2 to 4 cores from these numbers alone.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4940/qualcomm-new-snapdragon-s4-msm8960-krait-architecture/3

The Geforce ULP used in Tegra 2 clocks in 3.2 GFLOPS @200MHz clock. With simple math, that puts the GeForce ULP++ found in the Tegra 3 should run at 16 GFLOPS @200MHz clock. The Mali-400 found in the Exynos SoC clocks in at 7.2 GLOPS @200MHz clock. Tegra 2 vs Exynos, the Exynos wins by a mile gpu-wise. You want proof?

Both gpus are rendering at the exact same resolution of 720p. The Mali-400 DOUBLES the performance of the GeForce ULP.

Try again.

PS 99% of apps are single-threaded. And multitasking doesn't really come into play unless you're running 2 cpu intensive tasks at the same time. How many apps do you have that use more than 10% of the CPU while running in the background? And The Exynos is already dual core, so you'd need to have at least 3 CPU intensive tasks running at the same time to see any performance benefit.
[Atrix 4G General] ccrows:
* Wrapping things up *

Yes the Atrix has the muscle to handle ICS.

Can we please stay on topic, or close this already?...
[Atrix 4G General] KillerNepal:
What about our 4in display?? ICS has new 3 buttons.... does that mean ICS gonna use and run in around 3.8 inch of the screen.
[Atrix 4G General] facetubespam:
No. ICS can "hide" those onscreen buttons.
[Atrix 4G General] Sass86:
My original comment. If you read it, you would see that exynos4210 vs tegra3 will end with tegra3 winning. The date chips are released means everything. Nvidia had set backs and never released tegra 3d, which would have been on par with 4210 in clockspeeds. Seeing as the processors in tablets and smartphones are not built the same (power reasons), and exynos4212 isn't made till 2012, I don't get what your saying. I merely said from the beginning that last years chip will not best this years. Oh and tegra running froyo and exynos running gingerbread is hardly a fair comparison. Tegra2 is older than other chip sets, but still holds its own against them.
[Atrix 4G General] Incognitum:
A) Motorola and ATT both have joined the android update alliance pledging to support all phones for 18 months. Atrix will get IS.

B) Atrix has been officially accepted as a CM supported device with the latest beta release. Atrix will get IS.
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
That only applies to phones released after the announcement. The announcement only guaranteed support and updates. They never specified what kind of updates. They could easily just release bugfix updates and still keep their guarantee.
[Atrix 4G General] Alcapone263:
and they could easily follow through with the agreement fully and release software updates. see, it can go both ways! how shocking!
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that it only applies to phones released after the announcement. The Atrix OG has already reached EOL at AT&T at least as well.

---------- Post added at 01:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------

You also claimed that the Tegra 2 gpu was more powerful than the Mali-400. I also used simple extrapolation to prove that the Tegra 3 should at best equal the performance of the Exynos chipset. Unless you know of a way that a cpu can somehow magically pull even 30% out of a 30% faster clock, this should hold true. I know that it was gingerbread vs froyo, but the difference isn't as dramatic as you make it out to be. Secondly, there's a reason why I gave such a huge performance boost bonus to the Tegra with a 30% faster clock. It should be 10-15% faster in a best case scenario, but I gave it a theoretical 30% to make up for any possible shortcomings of froyo vs gingerbread. Finally, the Exynos 4212 should be out before the end of the year. It's being used in their LTE and their SGS2 HD smartphones which have been announced and detailed. You really need to look stuff up because you've been wrong on many facts so far.
[Atrix 4G General] Bloodgod:
you beat me to that point. but it's also true about the timeline between the release of the atrix and the 18 month update guarantee agreement, it's a possibility that atrix owners will be left out of an ics update but do any of you really see that happening especially with how underwhelming the specs of the atrix 2 are?

just so that i am clear, i'm not starting any kind of argument i am only asking a question based on what i see.
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
The Atrix 2 has a more powerful chipset. The only thing that the OG Atrix has over the Atrix 2 is the FP scanner, which has been very buggy in my experience, and more internal storage. Everything else is equal to or better than the OG Atrix. And the Atrix 2 being released so soon points in the other direction. Why would they update what is basically EOL/"outdated" hardware when they have a brand new device to sell? The Atrix sold poorly so Motorola had to do something to get their sales up, so they made an Atrix 2 at a lower pricepoint and hope it sells well. Motorola is a hardware business, not a software business. Keeping older devices updates means lost potential future sales.
[Atrix 4G General] silver03wrx:
I completely agree with your statement which is why I created this thread we need too all tell Motorola we want continued support for the ATRIX if enough people do. They can not ignore it.
[Atrix 4G General] pukemon:
Personally, i doubt atrix gets ics. But man, i sure would love to see how well it runs with hw acceleration and if it improves webtop experience. Not to mention, motorola ignores our plea for hdmi mirroring but an ics update might achieve that.

I voided my warranty and your mum.
[Atrix 4G General] silver03wrx:
But the chance would be much more inour favor if people would listen and voice there oppinion. On moto's facebook and twitter in mass numbers they do it because they dont want too look bad or piss off customers
[Atrix 4G General] silver03wrx:
I have seen first hand proof of this working. I had an evo 3d. Htc decided all futre devices would have locked bootliaders well that made alot of people angry. Someone posted a thread on xda suggesting we let htc know that is not gna fly. So it turnd out thousands of people got on there facebook wall and twitter. Guess what the next day htc released a statement saying that they wanted too keep there coustamers happy and that the bootloader would be unlocked. They were. Id like to be able too have a device and not have too get a new one juzt because moto or htc or sammy wants too put them out constantly get people too buy them and then ditch them and out out another. The atrix is 100 percent capable of runing ics and theres no excuae for it l not too recieve it just because moto wants people too buy new devices every couple months. I know many many people feel the same way well as i said we have the power too change that if people would stop bickering and take it seriously. And also if moto started supporting devices longer not just bug fixes but the new android flavors. Id definately make my next device a moto it would do nothing but benefit them
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
And yet every single phone to date after the OG droid has a locked bootloader. The Atrix and the Photon 4G only got unlocked due to luck with exploiting Moto's update servers for unreleased updates. This is with Motorola promising a bootloader solution. The HTC promise came after the Motorola promise, I believe, and their solution came before. Moto is already doing very poorly with only 4.4 million smartphones shipped last quarter. Combine that with the fact that the Atrix OG has sold poorly thus far and you get a very, very low Atrix user population. Motorola has shipped 8.5 million total phones since the Atrix launched. I would estimate the Atrix at roughly maybe 400,000 total sold to date. And that's probably being generous. Moto's main source of sales is verizon phones. Their Droid line is much, much more popular than their other devices.
[Atrix 4G General] silver03wrx:
Yes that is not good. But if they started being the company known for being android friendly. Unlocked bootloaders and continued os updates that would drasticaly increase there buisness in my oppinion. And i for one would stick with them and recomend them too everyone i know
[Atrix 4G General] silver03wrx:
http://www.facebook.com/motorola?sk=wall&filter=1 click the link people like it and comment on it.
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
What you described is basically samsung and maybe HTC. Both have bootloaders unlocked, with samsung never locking their bootloaders. Both also update their devices faster for the most part. The only time Samsung has been late on updates was when AT&T held them back. The updates were already ready; AT&T just didn't push it out for whatever reason.
[Atrix 4G General] silver03wrx:
Yes now lol but during the samsung moment era wow sammy dropd the ball so badly the divice was nothing but but problems to the point that sprint discontinued it. Then the og epic at first same thing gps did not work many many issue but they did finally straighten that out abd since the epic being fixed sammy has made a turn around they must have lost alot of buisness during the moment ordeal. They wouldnt put out updates or acknowledge the issues. Then they blamed sprint and sprint blamed them
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
It definitely didn't hurt Samsung's business as Samsung topped Apple last quarter as the top seller of smartphones. Samsung shipped 20 million smartphones last quarter vs Apple's 17.1 million.
[Atrix 4G General] silver03wrx:
No i mean during the moment that was several years ago
[Atrix 4G General] Sass86:
I read a select few people will be getting them in Q4 this year like they did for 4210 last year.. didn't see them in actual mass produced phones for months after that. Now let's talk actual use. Mali has higher scores but how many games on android are developed and optimized solely for exynos? Last I checked u need chainfire to play tegra games. Nvidia doesn't just make chips, they make them useful. So all that is on your chip is nice on paper but does what in actual use? Slightly faster than a chip a year older than it? congrats. 1080p recording on a screen with 720p or less.. tell me who has used NEON? What can your exynos do in real use that a tegra can not?
[Atrix 4G General] Sass86:
Last quarter apple was selling phones that were over a year old.
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
1. There's a grand total of 21 games for the Tegra platform. At least half of those games are available on the market for non-Tegra devices at a lower price point. Some the games are also of the type that don't benefit from better graphics such as solitaire, backgammon, spades, pinball, etc.

2. There's no reason to make games developed solely for a specific chipset. Look out how many sales the Tegra zone games have compared to their counterpart. The non-THD version doubles to triples the sales of the THD version and does so at a lower price point. The only difference between a THD and a non-THD game is higher texture resolutions. The whole idea of a chipset-specific app runs counter to the whole Android ecosystem and only further the fragmentation that plagues the ecosystem. If a developer has to choose between a marginally faster app for a short time with proprietary tools and a ubiquitous standard with lots of hardware options, guess which one they go for? The one that nets them higher profits obviously. The Tegra Zone has been a failed experiment.

3. That games is your most important priority when it comes to smartphones shows just how mature you really are.

4. SGS2 was Announced in Feb'11 and released April'11. LG Optimus 2X was announced in Dec'10 and Released Feb'11. 2 months is not 1 year.

5. 1080p recording is so people can display them at home on their TVs.

Lots of people clamored for 1080p recording on the Atrix and demanded that Motorola update the Atrix to provide that capability in an update. 1080p recording is also standard on every other high-end android device.

6. NEON support is being added to the Tegra 3. There's a reason why Nvidia reversed their initial decision to not implement NEON on their Tegra SoC. They realised it was a mistake to not implement it. It lessens the need for GPU and GPU compute functions when it comes to media encoding and decoding. It's the reason why the Tegra 2 can only software decode anything beyond 720p base-profile H.264 when even a Captivate could hand 1080p high-profile decoding with hardware acceleration.

7. Exynos can hardware decode 1080p high-profile H.264 without any help. Tegra 2 requires special software-based codecs to decode 720p high-profile H.264.

---------- Post added at 06:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

And Motorola sold a total of 4.4 million handsets. Samsung sold 10 million SGS2 alone. And that's before it even officially hit US shores, which is one of the biggest markets in the world.
[Atrix 4G General] Sass86:
I wasn't toting moto, I was proving yet again how your comparing old to new technology. Also if samsung stopped short I think you'd break your neck, but that's another story entirely.

How do you get from the announcement and release of a SoC to the announcement and release of a smartphone? I said exynos, not any phone it was in, was given to a select few, then months after it was made available for phones like SGS2. They mass produced it in march 2011. Tegra 2 was released for over a year before being used in a smartphone. you still haven't shown me why NEON was needed yet... nvidia makes SoC's almost yearly, perhaps they figured they wouldn't need to spend the extra money for a feature not currently being applied, lowering overall costs. Im not sure what your phone is used for so do not assume you know how I use mine. games are a big part of the android market, and call me crazy but a big reason for any SoC to upgrade graphic performance. Devs did not choose to make the tegra apps, nvidia paid them to make those apps. Their counter parts cost less with lower graphics. you also just compared sale of apps as tegra devices vs. Any other android device ever made, real hard to figure out who will sell more apps there. Yes we want 1080p, but this chip was made BEFORE EXYNOS! Tegra 2 was released jan. 7, 2010, exynos in march 2011. You love to compare last years great to this years. 1080p is known to be choppy on tegra 2, which is why it was not released, but 720p since jan 2010 is pretty good if you asked me. NEON was added because like with all the other things nvidia has put in it SoC's, it also develops apps for their use as well.
[Atrix 4G General] ccrows:
For what it's worth, the Xoom just got confirmation that it will be receiving ICS...

http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...e-cream-sandwich-confirmed-for-motorola-xoom/
[Atrix 4G General] malickie:
Well that is a good thing, I can only assume the cellphones aren't too far behind in receiving notification from the looks of things.
[Atrix 4G General] pukemon:
I would think tablets are a lot more likely to get updates than phones would. The manufacturers of tablet need to do all they can to get marketshare away from apple. Phones are going to sell regardless because theyre more necessary for daily life. Tablets are more of a luxury.

I voided my warranty and your mum.
[Atrix 4G General] ccrows:
You never know if Motorola is spending the time for the Zoom, they might for the Atrix/2 as well. I know the carriers are another roadblock, but this could still be good news. Then again all it really takes is one carrier... ;)
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
Except I explained what NEON did. It's a media processing engine. The lack of it means Tegra 2 can't hardware decode anything beyond 720p base-profile H.264. Even with the software codec pack, the Tegra 2 cannot handle 1080p high profile H.264. The Captivate, a last generation based smartphone, could hardware decode 1080p high-profile H.264 because it included NEON. Tegra was not released in Jan'10. They demonstrated it in Jan'10. There's a very clear distinction. Intel demonstrated Haswell, their new microarchitecture they're introducing after ivy bridge last month. It won't ship until 2013 at earliest. So again.. Demonstration != release.

PS I own an atrix and have never owned a samsung phone, and I can easily say samsung makes much better smartphones than Motorola.
[Atrix 4G General] Gadgetz:
I participated.
[Atrix 4G General] Sass86:
But in actual phone use 1080p served no true value. I explained that even 720p on a phone is only just becoming possible. It was not cost affective to put in 1080p for just the cameras sake. Now that we are reaching true HD it makes perfect sense to start incorporating it.

I'm not sure about them making better phones as I am for them marketing their phones better. Moto has made very unique features, just doesn't promote well enough to boost sales. Atrix didn't sell as well because of poor marketing, bad timing, and carrier selection.
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
Except no. People don't want to transcode videos just to play on their mobile devices for one. It's a hassle vs just drag and drop. Secondly, there's this thing called HDMI out. I can load up my phone with 1080p movies and just watch off my phone. Secondly, samsung, at least this generation of phones, has clearly created the best phone on the market at the moment. It's camera even beats out the iPhone 4S camera, even though it was a highly touted feature during the unveiling. It has best in class hardware, comparable battery life to the iphone 4 and Atrix, and arguably the second best display on the market at the moment. Only the iPhone and possibly the Atrix 2 have better displays. Even though the SGS2 has a lower resolution and a higher screen, it has a sharper display vs the Atrix, with a 383 subpixels per inch vs the Atrix's 358 subpixels per inch. Go on any general android board. Everyone is saying to go for the SGS2 if you're shopping for a phone at the moment or wait for the Galaxy Nexus. Lapdock? It's a complete gimmick. There's nothing a lapdock can do that my laptop or a netbook can do. They were even trying to sell the lapdock at the same price point as a fully functional netbook or cheap laptop. Fingerprint scanner? Mine fails to initialize or just plain doesn't work 10% of the time I'd say. It requires a reboot and sometimes even a full reset of the saved fingerprint data to work again. 80% of android users don't even use security on their phone. You lose out the benefits of the rotary lockscreens if you do as well.
[Atrix 4G General] Sass86:
Granted you have to alter video files if you want to play videos on your phone, If you use your phone as a home entertainment device. I prefer blueray or google tv personally, but I guess your phones used for that. Of course there is hdmi out, there is also webtop which plays right on the tv with the webtop hack, for free. Comparing a netbook or laptop to a feature that is easily put through the hdmi cable for free? Really? I guess a 20+mp camera or camcorder with greater zoom and flash than sgs2 is comparable as well... I never said the sgs2 wasn't a good phone. If you recall this was about tegra2 < exynos4210 < tegra3. Also mass amounts of people will tell you to buy an iphone as well. Phones that sell as much as they did will have clear favor. The fps scanner is still a great feature. I could always choose not to use it, but at least the option is there. Resolution is resolution. 540x960 beats 400x800.
[Atrix 4G General] edgeicator:
Except you can't watch blu-rays on your phone. All my media is stored on a file server. All I have to do is transfer any file I want to a phone with NEON and it will play it. Currently with my atrix, I have to use Handbrake to transcode video files just to play them. Why can a phone from a year ago play any video I throw at it, but this supposed top of the line phone can't even play them without a conversion? Resolution is great until they ruin the sharpness it's supposed to bring by making it pentile without increasing its dpi. As I stated, the SGS2 with its larger screen and lower resolution still produces sharper images than the Atrix. I also compared the lapdock to a netbook/laptop. Stop trying to twist my argument into your favor so poorly. Phones sell well because they are, in fact, good phones. Anyone that says iPhones are ****ty phones are delusional fanboys. Fact is iOS and Android and WP7 are all great OSes. Different phones are better for different people. People who enjoy cooking would enjoy Android. People who enjoy going to restaurants would enjoy iOS/WP7. Finally, the Tegra 3 will be too little too late. Instead of using a die shrink or new architecture like all its other competitors are doing for the next generation of SoCs, Nvidia decided to instead add more cores. Ask AMD how that worked out for them in their Bulldozer release. Furthermore, Kal-el for handsets won't arrive until Q2-3 at earliest. The initial batch are for tablets only with the handset chips coming in 3-4 months later. Kal-El’s GPU should be up to three times faster than Tegra 2′s GPU, which would be a much needed improvement. But, Exynos’s Mali-400 is already twice faster than Tegra 2′s GPU, and the Mali GPU in the upcoming Exynos 4212 will get a 50% improvement, which should make it about equal to Kal-El’s GPU. That doesn’t necessarily mean games won’t look better on Kal-El devices. Nvidia tends to focus more on geometry and physics. Plus, Kal-El will also benefit from 4 CPU cores, which should be equal or slightly weaker than Exynos CPUs since they're going to be clocked at 1.3GHz instead of the originally planned 1.5GHz. The Exynos chip should be released by the end of the year while the handset version of Kal-el has been pushed back several months.