yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Motorola Droid Bionic] yutzyscott:
The problem is, with the locked bootloader we can't get a leaked aosp version of ics on this phone. We need to wait for Motorola to muck it up with "don't call it motoblur" so I imagine we will have to wait until about June before we can even lift it via cheesecake.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
I agree. If Motorola dropped straight aosp on this I might actually keep it
[Motorola Droid Bionic] r0ckstar323:
Everyone should file a complaint with the FCC like XDA outlined in the article they posted yesterday. I know there have been reports that the article may be wrong and it might not be illegal for Verizon to have the bootloaders locked but really who cares? We've bugged the hell out of Verizon and Moto and it really hasn't got us anywhere. Might as well start annoying the FCC. If they get enough complaints maybe they will open an investigation or at the very least do something to get Verizon to rethink their stance. It cant hurt and it only takes a few min.

The article I'm talking about:

http://www.xda-developers.com/android/it-is-illegal-for-verizon-to-lock-some-bootloaders/

FCC complaint page:

http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm

Select Wireless Telephone > Billing, Service, Privacy, Number Portability and other issues > Online Form. Fill out your information, scroll down, fill out 1 and 2, skip 3 and 4. Then in 5, tell the FCC that your phone’s bootloader was sold to you locked and still is, even though it uses Block C (reag) frequencies.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] cellzealot:
Yes AP20 is the Tegra II chipset and ap20_bl.img would be the bootloader for those devices.

This is why I have been very reserved about the possibility of an OEM unlock being available or even possible on an OMAP SoC because the security and fuse array works very differently than it does on the Tegra II boards.

We have a whole bunch of internal files and documents relating to the bootloader, and efuses as well as the MDM6600 radio chipset, mostly for older devices, but nonetheless very valuable info. I would like to share some of it with you but need to organize it somewhat.

I will PM you so we can discuss it. My schedule sucks unfortunately...will try tonight late after work.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
Think you could send me those documents too? For personal curiosity
[Motorola Droid Bionic] kennethpenn:
Ahhhh! That would explain everything. Thanks for the heads up!
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
I made this easier in my original post. It's much faster and should be easier. I've alotted the second post for updates found when and where. If anyone finds anything to add PM me.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] mistawolfe:
Either today or tomorrow I'm going to join the hunt. Wish me luck...
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
We've found one good update, the 5.5.891. P3droid is running it and apparently it fixes a lot of issues plus a new radio. He's gonna try to patch it for root I think.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] mistawolfe:
Yeah, I read that on his twitter. It'd be great to find another exploit. I'm going for gold when I go hunting.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] papi92:
It can prerooted then installed. But it can't be installed then rooted. I've been talking to him today.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
Yeah but he's gonna release a solid rooted one
[Motorola Droid Bionic] nitro66215:
I'm not a rookie at the android, but i can't remember for the life of me what to do when you get the "Motorola account required" message when you check for updates.

Can someone fill me in?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
Just hit setup account. It will check anyway
[Motorola Droid Bionic] nitro66215:
been there done that... keeps failing and saying setup wifi connection... use current connection... or skip. Never works. Is it because I'm completely DeOdexed? I'm assuming it's ok to be rooted. Couldn't remember if DeOdexing was an issue for updates.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] cellzealot:
Try editing item 113 in Settings Storage/Settings.db/Settings/user_need_accept_moto_agreement value=0 with an SQLite editor.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
That's interesting thanks. For me if it asks to setup connection I move on to next one. That's a server error for me not a client one
[Motorola Droid Bionic] nitro66215:
I'll check that out. Maybe I have a bad server selection? I'm assuming I can change the the cloud and just check for updates without getting this error? Should just say no update... correct?

---------- Post added at 11:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 PM ----------

Ok... I'm blind... can you give me the complete path to this Settings.db file? I've found a few, but none with that item
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
Well if I hit setup then it goes to a screen that says update available or you're up to date or wifi error depending on server.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] nitro66215:
hmm... so I found the db file... changed 113 to be 0. Verified I changed the singleParentMode to 1 and rebooted. Change to 113 was still there. Ran the first command.... then second.... selected cloud server on phone... then went to settings, about phone... and update.

Get Motorola account error every time.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
That was my next idea.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] nitro66215:
Yeah.... I don't have time tonight... maybe over the weekend... but I'm sure someone will beat me to it.

BTW... it must be the servers I was checking... found one that allowed me to get past the motorola account error.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] bigeddthemonk:
Got my support, :D
[Motorola Droid Bionic] wanderfowl:
Does the Bionic use Block C frequencies? I thought that was only some devices.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] r0ckstar323:
Yes 777-787 MHz. That is from the FCC documents for the Bionic.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] zachdroid:
Just sent the fcc a grievance report. We should bug the he'll out of them and see if we can win a big victory for the small majority.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Sjflowerhorn:
FCC jawn done did
[Motorola Droid Bionic] wanderfowl:
FCC Complaint sent. I don't have a whole lot of confidence that it'll do anything, but every bit helps, I suppose.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] thedymo:
joined the party, filed a complaint.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] ROB281:
filed my complaint, hammed it up a bit

if anyone else wants to use that go ahead, saves time, and speeds up filing the complaint
[Motorola Droid Bionic] EDNYLaw:
So I got up to 10 posts just so I could post this in the dev forums because this has really been bugging me. I love flashing, customizing and doing **** to my phone because it's my property. Up until this point I found out how to do all the stuff I wanted to just by reading and a little trial and error (hence the lack of posts) but this topic (C Block and Verizon) has me a bit annoyed to say the least. I'm a lawyer (well technically a law school graduate waiting on my NY Bar Exam results that should be out Nov. 4th) and as such I have a significant amount of free time on my hands. Now I've read through some of the C Block rules promulgated by the FCC and yeah as discussed it does seem to hinge on "reasonable" and let me tell you, most all laws do (it's a pain in the ass but that's what gives us lawyers work). I've worked for 4 different federal court judges in the Eastern District of NY and I know how federal court works. I (and I'm hoping that there are some other lawyers out there willing to do this) am offering my services pro bono (that means for free) to get the ball rolling against Verizon. If people effected by this (us 4G phone owners on Verizon, got to have standing in federal court to bring a suit and we do) can jump on this stuff before the FCC (who's probably bought off by Verizon and other companies) determines what "reasonable" is without the input of end users we might (and I stress MIGHT) have a shot at forcing Verizon to unlock the bootloaders. Again, this is just an idea because I'm bored and need to keep my legal skills sharpened. I post this here so that perhaps I can find other people to join together because there's no way in hell I could do it all by myself. The first step would be going back through FCC and court rulings to determine what "reasonable" is in similar situations and the process moves on from there. I just wanted to throw my two cents in as this community (among others) has helped me tremendously and has allowed me to do (nearly) whatever I want with MY property. I just thought that since I'm no dev it'd be nice to try to give back in a way that uses my skill set.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] r0ckstar323:
Sent you a PM.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
I'd wonder what the correct angle to fight from is? The block c FCC regs? Or failure to disclose that the phones are locked from the start and therefore limits our use of purchased hardware? What other points?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Calla969:
Wish there was something I could do to help. Let me know if there is anything a regular Joe can do to help out. Do you think there is any point in filing the complaints?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] ddggttff3:
I emailed the verizon wireless CEO about this, and allowing a unlockable bootloader... Got a call back, and chatted with a nice high end rep named Robert. All he really said is that it is a option that MAY be available, but verizon keeps it locked due to security. You could all do the same, as the more voices, the better....
[Motorola Droid Bionic] ROB281:
which number did you call?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] bigeddthemonk:
He emailed
[Motorola Droid Bionic] bigeddthemonk:
Yes, because individually were week but together were strong. Enough complaints and they'll do something.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] EDNYLaw:
I think constantly harassing the FCC with complaints can help. In terms of angles, legally speaking of course, let's say we felt comfortable filing suit (this would be quite some time in the future, I'm just saying hypothetically) Verizon would argue that their policy on locking bootloaders is a reasonable measure to protect security of their network. Then they would look back on precedent (old court cases and FCC regs) on similar issues (supposing this is not a completely new issue but I guarantee it's not, nothing ever is) and they would find favorable precedent and then they would say "see what the court did there, you should do the same thing now because the situations are nearly indistinguishable." Then we'd have to find cases that go the opposite way or find some way to the distinguish the old cases and say something to the effect of "this situation is completely different because...." That's a quick and dirty run down of how the fight would go. In terms of specific angles, I think the research would reveal the best way to attack it because you could look back on cases and precedent and determine where Verizon's weakest arguments are located. Unfortunately, saying Verizon has let the Nexus on it's network isn't going to cut it, it does undercut their position slightly, but courts and the FCC would want to see prior precedent showing that this type of thing a) won't impact security (that's where the Nexus argument would be the strongest) and b) Open blocks (like C Block, assuming this isn't the first time there's been some type of restriction for a spectrum) have allowed for something along the lines of what we're arguing for. The pain in the ass is, there's totally not going to be anything even remotely related to the FCC regs and bootloaders concerning spectrums but there may be other similar situations; that's where the research comes in. @Cala969 As far as an "average Joe" is concerned, anything Google turns up in terms of C Block, openness of frequencies or whatever. @ Phydo, I think the right angle in terms of your specific question would be C Block regs, failure to disclose wouldn't work until the FCC determines what is and is not reasonable, because as of right now Verizon has nothing to disclose because it hasn't been determined what they're doing violates anything. Damn, sorry for the length, when it comes to law I apparently get wordy :)
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Zepius:
what was the email that you used?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] ROB281:
my bad, got confused there
[Motorola Droid Bionic] EDNYLaw:
Out of curiosity, did you ask him why the Galaxy Nexus is allowed and how this impacts their "security concerns?"
[Motorola Droid Bionic] r0ckstar323:
At the very least hopefully Verizon will publicly acknowledge the situation since Moto says that they want to push lockable/unlockable bootloaders out in future updates. If they deny Motos claim and say they don't care then it would force Motos hand to unlocked them. If they say it's for security reasons then we have the argument that the Nexus is unlocked. We all know the real reason is they don't want people removing their bloat or tethering for free. Sad thing is this is something we can do with just root. I think our best option is to annoy the sh!t out of the FCC until they do something.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] EDNYLaw:
I would agree with you, however the FCC is a governmental regulatory agency and they'll be looking for support for their decision, and by support I don't mean lots of people clamoring for it to happen, but actual documented reasons as to why this should go one way or another. I say the more people complaining to the FCC is always a good thing, but I'll tell you, having worked in the federal government for a while, they don't like change and they usually side with big companies so you need a lot of persuasion to get them to agree. And to trump Verizon's "security concerns" is going to take a lot of proof that there aren't any security concerns (actually now that I think about it there's an argument that most of the "security concerns" are things we can do without unlocked bootloaders, maybe attack it from that angle) because the FCC is going to be EXTREMELY hesitant to tell Verizon what is and is not a security concern to them. Government is usually not in the business of telling companies how to regulate themselves, especially with all the crazy ass conservative tea partiers out there ;)
[Motorola Droid Bionic] r0ckstar323:
We really don't need an unlocked bootloader. We just need one that is unlockable. They can keep it locked up for the people who don't care and let the ones who want an unlocked one have it. They should be able to do this by putting a file out there that will unlock the bootloader and require us to accept terms that state we understand it may be a security risk in installing the file. That way the consumer is knowingly taking the security risk and Verizon doesn't have to concern itself with the security of all the phones.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Jhiciano:
exactly like sprint does, on my epic touch, when its unlocked there a big yellow exclamation on the startup letting everyone know its unlocked
[Motorola Droid Bionic] EDNYLaw:
I agree, I think that's a good argument and a way to distinguish important details. By putting the onus on the end user may alleviate some concern and lets face it, the people who care are like what 1% of Verizon's customers. However, I'm curious as to how much of Verizon's stance is based on security concerns and how much of it is them worrying about losing money. I mean sure, they don't want people to drop viruses and things on people and do malicious things (but it seems people from XDA and similar forums come out with fixes WAY before any of the companies) but it seems that their true concern is man... we're going to have people getting a service that is native to their device that should be free... for free and we can't double charge them for data usage.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] ddggttff3:
I found a web portal page on Google where I emailed the CEO, and I would have, but when he called I was at work and I did not really have much time to talk. I did say tho that because the bionic will soon no longer be a flagship with the razr they should think about opening it up... maybe I should call him back and ask his can we use the bionic kernel source code that was released without a unlocked bootloader?.....
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
All I want is a kernel, ramdisk, and recovery that's more functional. They can keep whatever else
[Motorola Droid Bionic] znel52:
just sent my complaint
[Motorola Droid Bionic] r0ckstar323:
Motorola has said they want to put a lockable/unlockable in future updates but final say is up to the carrier. Ask him if they will allow that since it would require the user to unlock it and it won't effect anyone that doesn't want to unlock it.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] twinkyz1979:
Seems to me the xoom allows the person who owns the device to make the choice. Why shouldn't all devices be like that? I don't see a bit of a security risk to verizon in allowing this to happen.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] ddggttff3:
I even told him about that, how moto said they are open to it.... he really just replied with its a security thing on verizons side. He did ask me tho WHY i want a unlocked bootloader. My answer, remove bloatware, and tweak and tinker the device to its full potencial!
[Motorola Droid Bionic] yutzyscott:
Wireless tethering is a big issue with Verizon but, not their only reason. Another one is the fact that so many people who mess with their phones software are going to the Verizon store and getting replacements for their bricked device from a store rep that doesn't know any better. There are several things that can put a stop to this. 1. Any and all warranties should go directly through motorolas tech support center NOT VERIZON. 2. They should create within the file that unlocks the bootloader a script that causes the phone to send a message to Verizon immediately voiding your warranty. Or, make it so that an unlocked loader cannot be relocked. That way it would be discoverable and verified that the loader was never unlocked before providing any warranty replacements.

Off topic: I am currently reading the biography of Steve jobs. I will say that I despise apple as a company and job's stance on the android platform and the way he went about trying to rid the world of android all together. But, his biography is very interesting and very good at giving some incite on why he was the way he was. Also we can't ignore that he truly was a pioneer in the tech world with great ideas no matter how misguided his ideals.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] EDNYLaw:
I don't really think that the whole insurance thing is a big issue because unlocking the bootloader would prevent a **** ton of returns because the damn thing would be next to impossible to brick but even if you did brick it, who cares? If I buy a computer and **** with it and do something and I have a warranty on it, Dell (let's say I bought it from them) will trouble shoot it and fix it. Moreover, if the issue becomes you're stuck at a brick because of a bootloader issue they could just unlock it reflash the entire system (system, data, cache, radios, kernal...) and bring it back 100% to stock no problems. The only thing that can permanently screw it up is if you OC it to the point of melting something or cause actual physical damage. Of course I'm not a dev so I might be wrong, but I've been reading these forums for quite some time and that seems to be the main issues.

Anyway, the reason I wanted to post, I just felt the need to address that, was I think I'm going to start doing some actual research into the whole C Block issue tomorrow and see if I can find any legal precedent or at least some indication that Verizon's violating the terms of C Block. Wish me luck, I'll report back any useful findings!
[Motorola Droid Bionic] EDNYLaw:
So the FCC's webpage is a pain in the ass to navigate but I found the actual provision of Section 27.16 Network access requirements for Block C in the 746-757 and 776-787 MHz which I'm assuming is where Verizon falls but I can't find the exact frequency everything says 700 MHz, so if anyone knows feel free to tell me. The pertinent language of the Section seems to be "Use of devices and applications: Licensees (Verizon in this case) offering service on spectrum subject to this section shall not deny, limit, or restrict the ability of their customers to use the devices and applications of their choice on the licensee's C Block network, except: Insofar as such use would not be compliant with published technical standards reasonably necessary for the management or protection of the licensee's network."

So it seems we would need to figure out if locking their bootloaders is reasonably necessary for the management or protection of their network. Seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, there's really nothing we can do with unlocked bootloaders that would compromise the security of the network. Therefore, it looks like the management aspect is the actual focus and by management I think that'd be a broad enough term to include wireless tethering but if anyone else has any ideas how else open bootloaders effects management or protection of networks lay it on me because I'm learning this stuff as I go along. Back to digging around!
[Motorola Droid Bionic] r0ckstar323:
The Bionic operates on 777-787 MHz so it does fall under Block C.

The only argument I could see them using for the management or protection of their network is that unlocking the BL would allow people to tether their device without a tethering package. Tethering is something we can do without the unlocked bootloader, all you need is root access. I think PDANET will work without root on a stock phone though. Even if that is the case the "harm" would come from people using to much bandwidth, which is something we could do with stock unrooted phones just downloading massive amounts of data over 4G.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] yutzyscott:
I agree but, the problem doesn't lie with what's possible or what the right way of doing things is but, more so with the reality of how things are currently handled and the fact that Verizon employs people with a very limited technical knowledge base. To employ people with more knowledge would require higher salaries so we are stuck with those who can do no more than read an elementary level trouble shooting list. Anything more technical is above their understanding. Installing custom software makes it nearly impossible for them to follow that list. That combined with the fact that all to often people new to android modding and development jump in to deep to fast and end up soft bricking their device. Not to the point of no return but, to the point that is beyond their technical know how and the Verizon reps technical know how to recover it. Rather than researching here or a similar forum on how to fix, the new people take their perfectly good device back to Verizon for a replacement. This causes Verizon to lean toward keeping devices locked down. I have openly chastised many new people on this forum for posting threads describing how they have done this as though they were proud of it when instead if they would have asked any one of us as to how to solve their problem with their existing device we could have walked them through a fix.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] EDNYLaw:
That's exactly what I was thinking. I actually found an FCC Order regarding this situation with Verizon, though it didn't go into explicit detail about what openness meant, but it seems the FCC wanted it to remain open and construe open very strictly against Verizon. If any one wants to read the decision (someone might catch something I don't) I'm attaching it to this post.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] EDNYLaw:
I agree with you 100% that there are a lot of people that are doing what you're saying, or would, however, Verizon could easily abate the return of devices by training their service reps to FXZ or SBF or whatever the hell they use to completely restore the device to stock. I mean it'd take 20 minutes in the store and it's as simple as plugging in the device to a USB cable selecting the file and hit a button. I'm pretty sure I could train my dog do that. Well he might have a problem with the plugging in but the button clicking... he's all over it :)
[Motorola Droid Bionic] phydo:
Verizon may be required to let us use the devices we want, but it doesn't mean they have to sell them
[Motorola Droid Bionic] EDNYLaw:
While they don't have to sell them, it would seem that they would not be able to prevent Motorola from unlocking the bootloaders