yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows 8 General] tonyeltigre:
How are any of those more intuitive than clicking start->control panel (2 clicks) or windows key->control panel (1 keystroke 1 click)

I would argue it's much more intuitive and far less disruptive to work flow to stay in a single environment (not going to the metro screen) and accessing the info. It's also far more intuitive to click on an a button instead of finding a start hotspot, right clicking then finding your selection.

Every example you posted is more clicks and key strokes than any previous version of Windows. Any finding the control panel was no part of my complaint about Windows 8 (thanks for making it for me), my only issue with the control panel is it takes you out of the metro workflow and runs in desktop mode and that is clearly disjointed.
[Windows 8 General] netham45:
More applications, faster and more centralized searching, more information at a glance. What downsides does Metro bring?
[Windows 8 General] tonyeltigre:
Which applications only exist in metro that are pertinent to a non touch device? Because I have never used a metro app more than once

What were you missing through the previous version of search? I have never been blown away by metro search, especially considering you are rarely in the metro environment from the desktop. If anything going to metro to search is a productivity killer because it takes you from your workflow.

What information at a glance wasn't available previous to metro? email notifications have always been available, canned news and weather at a glance isn't very useful and if you enjoy it has always been available.

This thread of full of metro downsides, just read a couple pages if you would like some examples.
[Windows 8 General] stevedebi:
Downside: The lack of a coherent, desktop centered interface is the downside for a desktop only machine. One is expected to flip back and forth from a desktop interface to a tablet interface, while using a mouse no less.

Downside: Extra computer code and memory use that has no purpose on a desktop only machine. Basically, MS put what should have been a phone and tablet only interface in a desktop. They should have put in the capability to not use one or the other - except that they couldn't; the "metro" OS would not be able to function without the desktop at this point. I suppose in theory the desktop could function without "metro", but it still can't be removed. In my mind this forcing of the tablet interface makes the OS more bloated than it has to be.

I never used Windows 7 search; Agent Ransack is my recommended search - it works absolutely great.
[Windows 8 General] netham45:
Having used Metro enough to know it's ins and outs I fail to see how switching to it is such a productivity killer. Do you open up Metro and just stare at it like a deer in the headlights for 30 seconds before continuing? I know I don't, it's just another menu to me.

What, you can't spare 50MB of RAM to load Metro? Unless you're using 100% of RAM a majority of the time that point is moot. And, if you are, buy more RAM. It's cheap as dirt; I got 32GB for like $110.
[Windows 8 General] stevedebi:
The point is that the metro interface has no purpose being there. MS is pushing stuff into the desktop that has no point or purpose for the desktop user.

As to RAM, that isn't the issue; it adds complexity to the code that does not need to be there. (although RAM is an issue for most laptops, which often still max out at 8 Mb).
[Windows 8 General] tonyeltigre:
It's the change in environments, why go from editing a document in desktop, into the metro ui, search and back to the desktop when you just could have searched from the desktop otherwise.

Ram is not the issue, uneeded tasks running in the backgroud, programs that can only be killed at the task manager and additional processor load are bigger issues. But really the point he was making was simply that Metro is unneeded, it only adds steps and lacks function for desktop users so what is the point.

(I would like to see the deal you got on RAM. 4x8gb sticks of generic ****ty ram will cost you $200.)
[Windows 8 General] netham45:
I don't see how a change in the environments is so jarring, it's really fluent if you just learn how to use it.

If an ARM tablet can handle Metro then any modern computer can handle the extra threads that Metro runs when backgrounded. You're basically arguing that a car shouldn't have AC in Alaska because you'll never use it and the compressor is just extra weight that wastes gas. It's so insignificant that you'll gain nothing by pulling it out. Also, the Start Menu took RAM too. I don't have figures, but I would be willing to bet that the old start menu took about as much RAM as the Metro start menu. I'd make the same wager on CPU usage, especially when they're not in use.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006XB56VI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 That's the RAM I've got. Runs great for me and I would hardly call Corsair generic and ****ty.

Edit: It appears that that item was edited since I bought it. It used to be 2x8GB.

More edit: Nevermind, they were always 1x8GB, they just used to cost like $29/stick instead of $50/stick.
[Windows 8 General] GoodDayToDie:
Search is actually the one area I feel Metro is really a downgrade; what used to be a single centralized Start search is now segregated into Apps/Settings/Files. That's my only real gripe about Metro - possible because it's damn near the only aspect of Metro that I use.

Now, do I wish that MS had spent the man-hours they expended on Win8 Metro on improving Win8 desktop instead? Yeah, I suppose I do... but, regardless of whether I find it more useful that a pile of dog **** or not, Metro *is* appreciated by a large number of the unwashed masses who inhabit this planet and (somewhat unfortunately to those of us who prefer our machines free of botnet-generated spam email) use PCs. From that perspective, even though this initial PC incarnation is, in fact, pretty awful... I think it's good that they have taken those steps.

Does it bother me to have it on the desktop? Not in the least, because it's optional and I don't use it. I also don't use Sound Recorder, Telnet server (or client), IIS, ODBC control panel, Print Management, SQl Server, Office for Mac, Bing Desktop, Windows Movie Maker, the Language Bar, or a huge number of other Microsoft products (including many that are built into Windows). Am I upset that Microsoft spent resources on them? No, not really at all.
[Windows 8 General] SixSixSevenSeven:
Search on the start bar used to segregate into programs and files too....

I find metro search alot easier. Just tap windows key and type, windows 7 it would on random occasion decide that although I just opened the start bar, it would not automatically focus the search bar. And then it took at least 3 or 4 times as long to find anything compared to on windows 8 where it seems to be instant, and I only had an 80gb hard disk under windows 7, got a 750gb one at the same time as getting windows 8 and now have about 400 used so although its not as much data as you guys may ir may not have, its more than the windows 7 search had to cope with.
[Windows 8 General] GoodDayToDie:
No. It would group items by category but it did not segregate them; all results were shown in one view, and the first result was always the one selected. On Win8, it will only show you results from the current category, even if there *are* no results in that category. Switching between categories takes a significant number of keystrokes and they aren't keystrokes you usually make while typing.

If the event you described in Win7 truly happened, you had some very odd and buggy version. I've been using NT6-based Windows versions since before Vista's public beta, and I have never once seen the behavior you describe (this is across more computers that I care to think of, I stopped counting at 20 distinct ones that I've used for substantial periods of time).
[Windows 8 General] JihadSquad:
While I agree that the splitting of search results made it a little harder to use, if you ignore the fact that the new interface is Metro you get a start menu that is simply much bigger than the old one. This is what I use on my laptop with a 1600x900 resolution. I am sure that with a 1080p+ display you can get way more icons there, and what I have is way more than the amount windows 7 showed.

Additionally, you can arrange the icons however you want, so you can hit winkey and know exactly where to click to get to your program.
[Windows 8 General] tonyeltigre:
It's less fluent than a menu existing in your current environment. That's the whole issue, you are offering no benefit to non touch users and an added layer of minutia.

An ARM tablet can handle metro because it can't run Battlefield 3, Vent, WMP and Chrome at the same time. You aren't processing video compression or batch modifying large photos. On a normal desktop computer you spend a decent amount of time with your resources maxed out regardless of your specs.

To use your analogy, sure you can put an AC on a car in Alaska because your car in Alaska doesn't operate under load. You would never see a track car with AC because small drags in power magnify under load.

There is no way possible that the entire metro ui uses less resources than the Windows 7 start menu, especially since I always ran Win7 in classic mode.

Still a good deal! Looks like you caught them on a technicality!
[Windows 8 General] rob_p:
For a preview, I think win 8 looks fantastic. It's early days, which just makes it all the more impressive. I think what people are failing to grasp is things are moving away from the old desktop. Computing is becoming more flexible, so many things are done on the move.

Obviously we don't know yet, but I think MS would be missing a massive trick if they didn't set Win8 up so that you can have a desktop and a tablet that are linked, so you can be working on the desktop, then swipe whatever you're working on over to the tablet if you're heading off to a meeting, or want to take it somewhere else with you.

I can imagine as tablets improve in hardware terms, desktops as we know will no longer exist in the main - you'll have a tablet that can dock to connect to extra peripherals such as larger screen, keyboard etc... much as we're already beginning to see with things like the new Samsung Win7 Tablet.

The normal windows desktop is still there, and I've no doubt you'll be able to enable and disable the Metro UI if you want, but I really like the concept of Metro. The idea is that you won't need the desktop anymore - I tend to run most things in full screen on my desktop anyway, so if it's running as an app from Metro, rather than a window on my desktop, what's the issue. I can still bring more than one app onto the screen and split it, so I don't lose anything there.

I get the impression those that don't like it are looking at it from the "standard" computing view, but MS is trying to get ahead of the market and work out / direct where we're going next - the desktop with windows has been around for more than 20 years, that's a fair life span!
[Windows 8 General] TheBeardedMann:
Well, I installed Windows 8, ran it, played with it, tested it, whatever you wanna call it. And after some time, I have come up with a scientific explanation why Windows 8 will suck.

Win98SE: Yeah!

WinME: Boo!

WinXP: Yeah!

WinVista: Boo!

Win7: Yeah!

Win8: Boo!
[Windows 8 General] itstheshawnp:
i for one love the metroui for the desktop...even without touch. as it was said before, with official microsoft support for the kinect on desktops, this will be a very intuitive way to use your desktop pc. i also hope that eventually you will be able to edit the tiles in the metroui start screen. its easy enough to add tiles for pretty much anything you want, but i am disappointed that the custom shortcuts are plain grey tiles. as it is a developers preview, maybe a developer will find a way to make custom tiles for any shortcut.

as for the horizontal scrolling...i got used to it rather quickly. even the opera browser has taken notice. they are working on a new way to scroll web"pages". instead of the typical up/down scrolling, they want to make it horizontal...much like turning a "page" in a book. a little odd, but i understand the concept. it would add a little more depth to the internet, which hasnt really changed aesthetically since it caught on...this could be a fresh way to browse the web. and for designers, its a new challenge to make refreshing web layouts.

now if i can only figure out how to install the x64 version...since on a clean install it will not detect my drives. i can only install from within my current os...and as x86 cannot install an x64 os, im hoping i will find a way.
[Windows 8 General] Jacky444:
Why going to Ubuntu and idk what while u can stay on windows 7 ? :P Nonsense.

if Windows 8 is for destkop users same as for tablets, they're seriusly dropping windows standards and killing it for desktops.
[Windows 8 General] A_Flying_Fox:
After doing the namechange to the driver to take off metro ui, I like windows 8 a lot better. But now it just feels like a slimmed down windows 7.

I also still can't figure out how to close an app or even pull up the task manager. I have to go t control panel>system>tools>advanced tools> task manager to open it up. Wtf hppened to alt+cntrl+del? Also, the task manager doesn't even list running programs! I have to search for the process and kill it from there (I do like the "Terminated" message though lol).

I am running it on a macbook pro so it could be (hope its) the keyboard just not functioning correct due to non compatible button drivers (LOL)

On a side note, this mbp has a core i5 sandy bridge inside and is quite sluggish on win 8 so I'm gonna blame it on the alpha release but its still a lot faster and stabler than I expected for an alpha.

I even got a few games runnin after messing with compatibility mode. Just go to properties of the game you installed and click on the compatibility tab and change it to windows 7 and check the box for run as administrator and all sould be good.

All in all, I'm happy with windows 8 sans metro ui. The metro ui is so limiting. I was in IE10 looking for **** on the internet, and I found stuff I wanted to try in the command prompt and lo and behold, all the **** I talked in my first post came to fruition.

I had to really sit there and keep switching between FULL SCREEN APPS that couldn't be resized to type in **** I saw in IE. I even had some robot game app running that I had clicked his tile and I couldn't figure out how to close it for the life of me! It just stood running and I rebooted to stop it.

Also, the desktop tile is ****ing retarded. Open programs aren't even running on it! Just ie10! You STILL have to switch between apps to see exactly what youhve running and then go right back to desktop tile if you don't wanna stare at metro.

Atleast microsoft is taking note with the stuff its said about the beta. Hopefully they realize metro is wonderful for tablets but EXTREMELY limiting for desktops.
[Windows 8 General] Emi_Cyberschreiber:
you can right click on taskbar and run Taskmanager from there.

also you need to SORT task manager like always, if you want it to seperate Applications, background processes and system processes. you HAVE to sort it by process. also ctrl + alt + ESC (not del) works to open taskmanager

some metro style UI apps will auto close, some will stay as suspended. that means you don't have to close them. they will suspend themselves automatically and then don't waste CPU. obviously new developers have to tweak that. you cant expect everything to work perfect at this stage

Steven Sinofsky said in a blog comment "suspended apps do not consume CPU and if other apps need the RAM then the suspended apps are unloaded. So you do not pay any penalty and nothing is slower"

i didnt understand last part but many about IE10, its if you go to metro IE, and then you click settings or win+i. you can click on "default view for links" and then it will change to open links on IE desktop.

so yeah its a developer preview, you cant expect it work perfect. and it works find on my desktop. ive been using it for a month, since i downloaded exactly sept 15. the only reason i have to go back to windows 7 its because i cant play GFWL games, because it doesnt display GFWL UI to log in. but I play in a virtual machine as well. but if runs better on win7 well i have to go back there.

But anyway, there are bugs and tweaks Microsoft is working on, or Microsoft didn-t give us in a dev preview. but it doesnt limit any keyboard and mouse functionality. since you can open software from desktop and taskbar. and it is only replacing old start menu, with a full screen Start Screen. so you launch programs the "same" way you did. the difference? its only full screen. but it works the same, you go there, you search for an app. or you click on a tile which in win7 would be a MFU or pinned program in start menu.
[Windows 8 General] A_Flying_Fox:
In windows 7 i would go to the cntrl+alt+del screen and choose task manager from there. Alt+cntrl+esc brought up the task manager, but like i said before, it doesnt list any tasks! Nothing! And under file it only gives the option to run a new task.

I have chrome open and expected to see it was running in task manager, but it wasnt. I still have to go to control panel and see the entire task manager with the graphs and all just to see what i have running! And thats IF the process has a recognizable name. According to microsoft, the new task manager theyre working on for the beta sounds like its going to be what it should be and an even marked improvement over the task manager from windows 7.

Also, about the apps being "suspended" and not using cpu. I do not care if its not using cpu and that its suspended. If i want it shut down, i should be able to shut it down. This isnt iOS and i dont want them holding my hand like it is. I had to shuffle through that robot app to get to IE from Desktop because i opened them up in a stupid order, which was why i wanted it closed, so i would have one less tile to scroll through.

Also, what i was talking about with IE10, was that its the only program on the desktop tile. Any other programs you got running doesnt show up in the desktop tile.

But thats fixed now that im runing taskbar and have metro disabled
[Windows 8 General] Emi_Cyberschreiber:
I still dont understand your task manager really i only go to task manager or ctrl + alt + esc.

"More details" if I was using task manager to only close apps. in performace tab i can even get the nice resource monitor if i want to check like what file is using more harddisk. and still if you do a ctrl + alt + del you can get the same menu "like" before

it says

Lock this pc

Switch User

Log off

Task manager

but i don't understand your problem since in can see every program running and metro style apps even suspended ones. in the few details task manager, of course more details brings everything like before.

about not being able to close apps. you SHOULD read more, i didn't say you aren't able to in beta or RC or RTM. we are in a developer PREVIEW which is missing alot of stuff.

but if you read about it you would have seen this

"With regard to the main user experience, particularly Start, we’re noticing some themes in your comments.

Will there be a way to close Metro style apps without going to Task Manager? (Yes there will be, but we also want to talk about why you probably won't need to use it.) Are we going to do anything to make the mouse more efficient in scrolling through your programs in Start? (Yes, we'll improve that experience, and show you much more in the beta.)"

obviously it needs work since its away from release. so you cant expect everything to work perfect.

but also Sam Moreau, Principal UX Designer for Windows, said in a Build interview from Channel9 that people has to stop thinking about closing apps. but also there will be an option for that like Building windows 8 blog said.

so if you read and check all this stuff. you would notice there is everything, just NOT in a PREVIEW release. they need to work on it. and it will take time.

so its hard to understand people like you. why using a not even beta release of windows to disable the start screen?

i cant even play GFWL games, because it just doesn't work. admin rights are all messed up, so you will have to run as an admin which disables even drag and drop. sometimes you have to change compatibility to windows 7 because if you don't do that drivers wont install properly.

yeah it doesn't use memory as windows 7 did, but its still silly to use a release when you aren't even using the point of this release use metro UI and develop for metro UI.

what if Microsoft get rid of start menu as I hope? and nothing can bring it back? you will have to choice between windows 7 or vista or xp or a new UI in windows 8. in their blog they pretty much said "There wont be way to unable old start menu" so if you want windows 7, then why not keep using windows 7. but that my opinion.
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
Hmm, its an odd patern i admit, but if you look at it

ME was a "change" of direction (Removed DOS / moving toward a unified NT win 9x),

XP improved it, (Eventually)

Vista was a major change in direction (driver model, OS core, UI)

Win7 Improved it,

Win 8 doesnt feel like a change in direction, its more a build apon Win 7 adding propper tablet functionality, the core Win 7 is still there. I think if Metro is allowed to be disabled for non-touch desktop users then Win 8 will be amazing, its already very good on a tablet in its Dev form.

so i see your logic but i think its flawed in this case as MS seem to **** up when they change too much and it takes another OS version to pull it back, even then, XP was utter crap until a few SPs down the line and 98SE was just a bumped up 98 which in turn was just a improved 95 with propper USB support.
[Windows 8 General] :
Some of the changes are amazing. BUT I can't have a tablet UI on my laptop. Big ass homescreen widgets. Scrolling horizontally. C'mon microsoft. Keep the windows design and add onto it. Don't give us touchscreen bs where most people have keyboards and mice.
[Windows 8 General] pspCaracas:
I would not install W8 in desktops or tables...or any other place!
[Windows 8 General] Mister Locke:
My point exactly.
[Windows 8 General] namhanz:
I'm starting to try Windows 8.

It would be great
[Windows 8 General] jokerzs:
windows 8 suck!!1
[Windows 8 General] netham45:
Well, this post has convinced me. I won't be using Windows 8.
[Windows 8 General] Award Tour:
Heh.

I installed W8 on a HTPC (Dual core Atom + ION2) with a dell touchscreen display. Works very well. Needs apps but that'll come next year. Anyway, come next year, I'm sure we'll see over half of the consumer desktops being sold become all in one touch screen w8 systems. Old desktops owners can just get a new display. Bought mine for like $220 (22"/23" 1080p IPS touch screen), good future investment, will probably upgrade my box next year.
[Windows 8 General] zekepliskin:
Switching off the annoying Metro UI revealed a sort of "Windows 8 Plus" which is faster, despite being obviously unfinished in a couple of areas (weird non-themed window headers, animation/graphics for certain things missing, limited ability to customise the UI). I like it.

As long as they don't force Metro on people, it'll be just as good if not better than Windows 7. The fact all the bloat has been trimmed out for more efficient operation on underpowered tablets also benefits desktop users running older hardware.
[Windows 8 General] jonny4:
I agree, I think this is Microsoft's way of getting into the hands of tablet users. I have it on my HP Touchsmart TM2t and it is absolutely amazing but I have not even tried to install it on my desktop but I don't see the point.
[Windows 8 General] inkyadrian:
i don't like 7, Vista was a nicer desktop when tweaked; better taskbar icons with classic start menu. I've had to hack 7 to get classic start menu and get get rid of the the horrible font, segoe. I hope 8 is better!