yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Captivate General] foxbat121:
I'm pretty sure anytime your data usage near or over 2GB mark, you're on the top 5% as majority of the smartphone users are probably on 2GB limited plan and spent no where near 2GB/mo. I'm a pretty heavy data user but I don't stream anything. My average is 350 to 500 MB/m and highest I've ever used is 1.5GB/mo that is because I streamed couple Netflix movies on a long trip.

If you're on top 5%, you'd bet AT&T will try anything possible to determine what you are doing using so much data.
[Captivate General] zelendel:
Guys it is really not that hard for them to find out what is using the connection. Not only can you see a mac address from the device using the connection but the data traffic is different. We all knew this was gonna happen, and now that it has we will all have to live with it.
[Captivate General] kevalin:
Please. I once got the "High Data Usage" text on the 200MB program, after using less than half the limit. The rest of the text then tried to convince be to move up to the 2GB plan, which I've never needed because 90% of my online work on the phone is through some form of wifi.

Not surprisingly, I deleted the message.
[Captivate General] geokilla:
How do they even detect tethering? From my knowledge, they can't. I have a 6GB data plan from Fido and I bet that if I tried, I can use up that 6GB without having to tether once!
[Captivate General] foxbat121:
You get your first text message warning after you reached 65% of your cap. Another one at 90%. Then the last one informs you that you have automatically paid another $15 for 200MB more which only lasts to the end of your billing cycle. So if you use 201MB at the last day of your billing cycle, you paid $30 for it. The newly added data bucket won't be there for new billing cycle.
[Captivate General] zelendel:
The Data traffic is different not to mention they can see the mac address that is using the connection. Now we all know that the mac address is recorded when then get the devices. Connecting with a different mac is a good way for them to see that this device should not be connecting to their data service.

if you can use 6gb of data on your phone, man you are on your phone way too much lol j/k

All jokes aside. The unlimited plan was put in place when smatphones did less and the people using them were more responsable. Now every kid has one and dont really care as most dont pay their own bill so they teather all day long watching what ever they want when ever they want and now we all will pay for it. I hate that smartphones have become main stream. Too many people that have no idea what they are doing and dont care about the recoil that it will cause.
[Captivate General] Pirateghost:
if your phone is acting as a proper hotspot, ATT will never see the mac address of the device behind the 'router' (phone in this case) for the same reason that the cable company has no idea what any of my mac addresses are beyond the router that i have hooked up.
[Captivate General] zelendel:
Agreed. If it is. All I know is what a my IT buddy for the core stores here just told me. Now he maybe lying or doesnt know lol which I wouldnt put past him, but I am sure they have someway of telling what device is using their connection just like we can on home networks
[Captivate General] crispy1805:
I would have to disagree to some extent. I doubt the average person tethers a lot or really needs too (if they even know how to); depending on location. While I will agree that media on the internet has changed, i.e. Netflix as an example, the 2GB limit still is enough for most people. With LTE and the avalibility of other faster networks (looking at you 3.5G) I think that will change due to the ability to access content faster and the reliability of the network. I do not know how many messages AT&T sends out concerning individual reaching their data limits, but I assume it is growing as smartphones and data networks evolve. They will either have to offer more tiered plans or boost cellphone site(s) back-haul --- or both in the near future. I wonder how Verizon is handling this in comparison to AT&T.

I am currently tethering because I recently moved to a rural location and this is my ONLY (sadly) viable option for any sort of high speed internet currently. I tried that wireless USB 5G dongle thing and it was horrible. I don't do a lot of downloading or streaming---mostly browsing. The "top 5%" is obviously to target those of us who do pass the 2GB limit most people have...i.e. unlimited plans. When I lived in a major city I never needed to tether--- yet I still used a lot of data, but more around that 2GB mark than now.

The bottom line is that they are pushing people to smartphones to the general public. Its the new selling point for them. They are going to have to eventually accommodate what they are pushing or start losing customers. Paying to tether is going to fade eventually---it just isn't logical. Perhaps at some point tethering will become mainstream if the wireless networks surpass the traditional Cable lines. Currently though I doubt a lot of the general smartphone population uses it or even knows what it is.
[Captivate General] Pirateghost:
yep. i dont really know if it acts as a true router or not, thats why i said if it was...

i never delved into that, because my work provides me with free data cards. i have an internal laptop card in my laptop and an ATT elevate. i just pop my sim card back and forth between the 2, depending on what i want to use
[Captivate General] KonaZXIII:
I tend to agree here, but this does not excuse at&t from calling it unlimited when it IS aggressively being limited. I shouldn't be carrying two dictionaries; one to reference when to understand people, and a separate to understand "corporate speak"...

especially

when corps so bad expect to have rights of persons. :rolleyes:

If they wish to keep using the term unlimited then, by all means, whip out the billion dollar check book and start updating the damn infrastructure to handle the data they are, effectively, over-selling..

Just sayin'.
[Captivate General] blue265:
That sucks that AT&T is so greedy. On rogers we are allowed to tether if we have a 1gb or higher plan. I think that's the way it should be as long as you aren't going over quota. Although if you're unlimited I guess I can see their point to a degree as you could just rack up data every month and not even use an ISP
[Captivate General] zelendel:
You would be amazed. I recently did a study on the youth and smartphones and in one class all the devices in that class were running off of 3 iphones that were jailbroken. I really couldnt say for the android devices as most carried the iphone/ipad. Wait what the hell were these kids doing with phones in school. anyway? lol The study was only to show the amount of kids that use a smartphone when they should be doing something else, like learning. Main reason my boys are not allowed a smartphone at all. They have better things to worry about.

Yes they push out the smartphone to the average user even when they have no need for it and that can be blamed on the icrap. IT made people think that smartphones were simple and easy for the average user. Now after that comes android and low and behold what do i see. Help I bricked this or this isnt working right, and now WTF they cant tell me how to use my data. Well if anyone ever read the TOS they agreed to then they would know that yes they can. It states plain as day that ATT reserves the right to make any needed changes to your contract as long as they let you know.

but either way. The days of unlimited data are gone, we will see if they ever come back.
[Captivate General] crispy1805:
Hopefully it does. I just read this Reddit thing on internet use in the US ironically:

http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/kjh7b/the_us_has_sunk_to_25th_in_a_global_ranking_of/

lol. When will these guys step up to the plate? This is sorta why I am happy the T-Mobile & AT&T merger isn't going to happen (or at least it looks that way right now). Maybe this will force them to invest that money in their network or something. I was kinda mad when Verizon took over Alltel. Competition and loss of customers when they get away with stuff like this forces them to change.
[Captivate General] Kyuta Syuko:
I always thought that they were going to merge the networks, but keep the two separate companies.
[Captivate General] zelendel:
I am looking forward to seeing what happnes with ATT and Tmobile. I mean if we look at it. Tmobile is not a US based company so if they decided to cut their looses and leave the US market, who can stop them really? Sense Tmobile is a GSM based company their are few people that can use the towers and tech short of ATT so I dont think they would be out bid if they let them go to auction.

Will it create a monaply? Maybe but that is only due to the other comapnies using the outdated CDMA towers an tech, if they moved over to GSM like 90% of the rest of the world then they could make Tmobile a better offer then ATT
[Captivate General] Kyuta Syuko:
I thought AT&T already bought or made an agreement to buy T-Mobile. You're saying that hasn't happened?
[Captivate General] Pirateghost:
they have submitted the request in to get approved by FCC/SEC/FBI/CIA or whoever gives the final approval, but its still a long way from being finalized. currently they (AT&T) are being sued because of some leaked documents about the merger

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...t-to-block-proposed-at-t-t-mobile-merger.html
[Captivate General] MJHawaii:
I did not tether but i had removed it with titanium and i noticed it was mysteriously using data alot of data so put it back and it stopped. Basically they know somehow
[Captivate General] Kyuta Syuko:
Well that's a new read. So the agreement is in place, but it's likely the merger will be blocked by the FCC. Now I understand why everyone's talking like the merger probably won't happen.
[Captivate General] ninjuh:
It's easy for them to tell. Typical smartphone data usage displays on their systems like this

21kb - 2:12pm

32kb - 2:15pm

14kb - 2:21pm

1.1mb - 2:30pm

etc...

Tethering would look more like this

509kb - 5:30pm

684kb - 5:30pm

1.5mb - 5:31pm

832kb - 5:32pm

Based on the amount being xferred and the short times between, its pretty obvious. Browsing a webpage on a mobile phone uses much less data than you would on a laptop/pc.

makes sense.
[Captivate General] bulletproof1013:
Agreed

Sent from my unbrickable cappy *bam*
[Captivate General] Tarima:
When I stream hockey games through the browser on my Cappy it actually pulls in more data than the figures you posted for tethering. So if I was with ATT I would be incorrectly flagged for tethering.

They either have a surefire way of telling, or they're just guessing and don't really have anything on you.
[Captivate General] crispy1805:
Hm I don't know. Perhaps this is something the ROM developers can look into? Another user over on the Infuse forums just posted that he got caught. He is on Serendipity.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=17726567#post17726567
[Captivate General] Pirateghost:
that user used 8GB in a week!!!! hello, red flag.....:rolleyes:
[Captivate General] Kyuta Syuko:
Joe from the Mosaic thread posted this...
[Captivate General] foxbat121:
Wrong. Yes, it is not showing up in normal tools. But any packet inspection will reveal the real MAC or internal IP address burried inside each data packet sent out from your PC behind a NAT. And any packet inspetion can reveal the pattern whether it is from phone or PC.
[Captivate General] AdamOutler:
The easiest way would be to set up a IDS on a network gateway and just flag anytime the word "Firefox" or "Internet Explorer" or "Safari" is seen in a connection packet.

There's apps that allow you to seriously utilize your bandwidth. Bandwidth is no indicator. The only indicator is the type of data being sent.

Each packet that goes through a network can be analyzed for patterns. I truely belive they're looking at the browser ID packets. That's the most surefire way everything else is a verification.
[Captivate General] aww.W.T.F?:
Foxbat is correct, anyone that has ever used a good packet sniffer can tell you the IP the ISP and the mac address from packets it recieves. Packets also tell whom they are from and to whom or where they are going and what they are asking for. Adam is also correct, You send packets out asking for permissions you get packets in return granting or denying permission, they all have a signiture and I'm sure att has much better sniffers than anything we can get a hold of. Im sure somewhere in their system a is trigger that looks for those types of packets and when it finds them it just does a track. With it being their network they can sniff 24/7 and it's legal.
[Captivate General] mymansionisabox:
As many of you have said that you think AT&T is doing more intense packet sniffing: browswer ID packets, mac address, data usage patterns and trends, etc. I think there may be reason to believe that AT&T is only catching a certain type of tethering connection. Within the last 2 month period, I have tethered my xbox via wifi hotspot and other mobile devices (a friend on a Sprint phone), a period that AT&T says that they noticed tethering. However, the ONLY time I ever tether my laptop, is by using USB tethering. That, in my opinion, would be the ONLY way AT&T would be able to discern that I am using a laptop versus my desktop pc (which on the phone the AT&T rep attempted to persuade me that AT&T was fully aware of any device I connect to their network). Also, I am not sure if I had tethered my pc via USB in that same time period. I am not certain, but I believe that a USB tether is different than wifi hotspot tethering in terms of how the device identifies and connects to the network. USB tethering may be a unmasked bridge whereas I am certain the wifi hotspot is much more like an anonymous router. USB tethering may easily show AT&T what device is using their network. Just a hypothesis.

Anyone who is familiar with the way Ubuntu USB tethers would be able to shed more light. All I have ever needed to do with Ubuntu, running Miui on my Captivate, is plug in the phone, select USB Tether on the phone, and voila Ubuntu auto connects.

Could be wrong, but its an idea.

---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------

I had missed these responses somehow before my prior post.

If this is true (I'm not saying this is not true), I don't see how a simple implementation of mac address spoofing would eliminate this problem; but like I said before, I'm far too chicken to give it a whirl and risk loosing my 'unlimited' data connection, ha!
[Captivate General] Pirateghost:
packet inspection by AT&T is costly and would require lots of resources. you mean to tell me they would rather do packet inspection than actually build out their network?

dont answer that.

yes, i know with deep packet inspection it is possible. however, on the grand scale of things, its unlikely they are doing any form of deep packet inspection.
[Captivate General] AdamOutler:
At&t owns the fiber line connected to the cell towers here. Its really simple and cheap to set up an additional relay to monitor traffic if you're setting up a whole fiber line in the first place. Its a matter of having a fiber tap with a computer on the end looking for patterns. When patterns are identified, it then flags the account. Basically a IDS system.
[Captivate General] foxbat121:
That's why they are only doing it for those who are in the top 5% data hogs, not everyone. Once you triggered the system, it can start packet sniffer actions.
[Captivate General] AdamOutler:
Here we go. I was looking for this. This came from my security+ book.

This would really be a trivial piece of equipment in a giant network of fiber lines.... especially at a datacenter.
[Captivate General] crispy1805:
Alright, 8GB a week is excessive, but anyone with the unlimited plan is at risk for triggering that 5% message. Its the nature of the plan. There have been a few users who tether lightly and have received the warning.
[Captivate General] aww.W.T.F?:
Adam always comes up with the best damn graffics for explanation...
[Captivate General] Entropy512:
MAC address is going to get hidden by NAT. They can't see that without some bigbrotherware on the phone.

However, there are ways to identify a TCP stack's "signature" - there are some OS-specific quirks that can differentiate, for example, Windows 7 from WinXP from Linux. This includes, but is not limited to, the default TTL of packets.
[Captivate General] blahze9:
I just received the famous e-mail as well. My data usage is typically only around 900 MB per month. I really don't tether much at all. I think I've tethered twice in the past month for less than an hour each time.
[Captivate General] IamNabil:
It's also worth mentioning that connections to windowsupdate.microsoft.com are also kinda a tipoff. No need to examine the protocol stack too much further. (Also, using things like LLTD are a giveaway. And you probably don't know if you are or not.)

:)
[Captivate General] sixstringsg:
So then what happens if you use your phone with a desktop UA? It would show up as firefox or something similar wouldn't it?
[Captivate General] Pirateghost:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=17747192#post17747192

yeah....doubt they are really checkin too well.
[Captivate General] AdamOutler:
see? Browser ID string as I said before.
[Captivate General] Pirateghost:
yeah, i know.....but we were talking MAC addresses before....not browser id strings....
[Captivate General] popfan:
Just an FYI, my sister-in-law that is on my plan uses almost an average of 8GB every month without tethering at all. She does not know how or cares too. She has not received any type of notice at all.
[Captivate General] dayv:
Just wondering, to kind of help narrow down whether it is packet sniffing for browser info, have those of you who have received the text warning about tethering deleted the tethering manager apk or is it still on your phone?

I would bet it is either browser identifier in the packets or the tethering manager apk if it is still on the phones that have received the warning.
[Captivate General] designgears:
Based on the info I would say mac address. They also said I tethered a laptop but I never talk to normal customer service, they didn't seem to worried about it.
[Captivate General] AdamOutler:
Its already been established that it is the browser ID string. No question about it.

It cant be MAC. The device acts as a NAT

some guy changed his browser string to a desktop browser string and got a nastygram.

There's not much else you would tether to your device other then a laptop.
[Captivate General] Nerz:
My brother tethers his xbox for call of duty all the time and he hasn't got it as of yet. He has unlimited data but a xbox live game doesn't use alot of data at all.
[Captivate General] sanderswm:
I use my phone as a mobile wi-fi hotspot once in a while, would this be detectable in the same way? Not sure how they could tell what I'm tethering to, though to be honest I'm still not clear how they know at all.
[Captivate General] erraz:
I just got the text:(
[Captivate General] beast534:
Just curious, how much data does Xbox live use? What's his usage per month. This is interesting. :)
[Captivate General] bames:
i think they could be trying to bluff and strongarm some users.

I looked at my average data usage for the 14 months i have had the phone and saw something rather interesting

my june 2011 usage was exactly 5gb. What is strange about this is that over those 14 months i have only gone over 2gb on 3 occassions and my highest usage was 2.5 gb. I didn't have any different data usage for the period in which they assessed 5gb data so i wonder if they are inflating some usage #'s to justify taking a closer look and trying to claim that you tethered.

I Hope that 5GB triggered me getting the text and a call because if they try to bluff i will call them on it. I know they can't provide any proof of tethering because i haven't tethered it.

---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------

somewhat subjective.... it depends on the intensity/frequency/longevity of play and what your individual playing time is so i wouldn't just go hog wild thinking its not burning much data.

Lots of kids playing cod/halo/battlefield/wow etc. log some serious hours.

Playing Call of Duty Multiplayer you are probably burning thru 20-40mb per hour. Using a projected average of 30 mb per hour that would = 1GB used in roughly just over 30hours of gameplay. There are alot of gamers that would easily be eclipsing 4 or 5 gb per month with their xbox live. My nephew could probably burn through a gb with COD over a long weekend
[Captivate General] AdamOutler:
No... quite literally.... they look for the browser string.

Your browser identifies itself as internet explorer and windows 7.... or whatever browser and OS you use.
[Captivate General] erraz:
When I tether to play halo I usually use 30 Mb to 50 Mb per hour
[Captivate General] dgafrc:
I have used a significant amount of data using tethering for xbox live. I have tethered to several computers but most of my data is used because I no longer have a computer at this time. My usage over the past few months has exceeded 5-10 gigs. One month I think I had used close to 20. I have received no information from AT&T about this.
[Captivate General] bulletproof1013:
I bet that **** is laggy as hell...your that person slowing down everyone else lol

Sent from my unbrickable cappy *bam*
[Captivate General] infernus1986:
Firefox has a plugin to change browser string, user agent switcher

You can add custom strings to mimic the phones browser
[Captivate General] erraz:
No that **** isn't laggy at all lol
[Captivate General] Nerz:
My brother's cod connection actually holds fairly well. Even on ground war (which has more players) it doesn't really lag. There are of course some latency issues which of course is somewhat of a disadvantage on face to face combat. But the bandwidth speeds themselves are actually fast enough considering most of the information is I believe client side where the only server side information being sent is player position, movement, shooting and what not. Of course I doubt mobile broadband will have the latency of good old cable/dsl broadband any time soon. So if it is not a option to get these, tethering is a good alternative. Sorry, hopefully this gets back on topic now.
[Captivate General] crispy1805:
Whats a browser string for the Infuse off hand/example?
[Captivate General] skeepon:
i use about 8-12 gb a month for the last 6 months. havent gotten anything from them. i hardly tether tho
[Captivate General] infernus1986:
http://whatsmyuseragent.com/
[Captivate General] Phateless:
Did you know there are already more than a million iPhones on T-Mobile? All of them had to be hacked, unlocked, or modified to work.

Yes, people hate att that much.
[Captivate General] Sledutah:
Wow, didn't know it was that high. My wife is using my old 3gs on T-mobile and will be getting my att captivate when I get the GSII next week.
[Captivate General] Phateless:
I have a vibrant for sale for $200. :p
[Captivate General] mymansionisabox:
Op here.

Interestingly enough, AT&T has yet to send me a warning text. Perhaps since I spoke to them on the phone I am no longer going to receive one.

I believe the the rep on the phone told me that I am now "educated" on the topic of tethering.

Comical wording and feeling.. I felt as if the rep had attempted to wash my brain or something of that nature.. Haha.