yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
I'm platform agnostic. I buy many phones a year and I don't care about review. My review, is when I buy the phone and use it, over several months. In the case of WP7. Almost 9 months. Do you seriously think I care about some unboxing video review's opinion of the OS, when I've had to content with it for 9 months carrying it everywhere *trying* to do everything I can with it?

Also, Microsoft Hardware specifications rendered the Launch devices a bad investement on day 1 for a lot of people, because they were not future proof.

A lot of the hardware support added in Mango, doesn't even exist in the Launch Devices. Skype Video Chat doesn't even matter, because you'll hardly have anyone to Video Chat to. None of the Launch Devices have a FFC and with the way the Wave II devices look, there is hardly a big incentive to upgrade (unless they have 32GB storage options, then a lot of people will consider it - current users at least).

No HSPA+ even though both T-Mobile and AT&T had their HSPA+ Roll-Out in full Swing back then. No Gyro in the phone. Well, do any of them have it? Mango Emulates it for phones without it, but seriously...
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
I said benchmark, not some open box review. Benchmark give a hardware performance score. Mango supports HSPA+ & LTE. Titan is HSPA+, 14.4 Mbit/s down. What most/all T-Mobile "4G" phone support.

EDIT: I've got to head to bed, I'll catch up with you guys later.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
No offense, but do you do any research yourself, or do you want me to spout [fairly] common knowledge to you everytime I make a statement.

Seriously, I expect this from my mother... Not someone who's trying to debate these things to me on XDA...

The SGX540 is Superior to an Adreno 205.

http://smartphonebenchmarks.com/for...d-power-gsx540-vs-adreno-205-which-is-faster/

According to that: The Snapdragon CPU is marginally better than the Hummingbird. The Hummingbird GPU is CLEARLY better.

Use Google and educate yourself. I linked that for convenience.

Also of note. At the time that Benchmark was taken, it was common knowledge that Quadrant was biased towards Snapdragon CPUs (Nexus one had a Snapdragon, as did many other phones), so even then the actual CPU advantage stated in that article is debatable. But the differences are not enough to matter, since CPU is rarely a bottleneck in mobile devices, unless that device was underspec'd (many phones, like the G2 shipped with Underclocked 800 MHz processors and still performed decently - clock speed isn't everything). GPU (Gaming, 3D), I/O (Galaxy S RFS issues, for example), and RAM typically bottleneck in these devices before the CPU. The SGX540 also has 128MB High-Performance RAM in the device dedicated to it.

---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 PM ----------

Galaxy S 2 on T-Mobile is a 42Mb down phone. I think the Vibrant 4G is faster than 14.4, IIRC. 14.4 is what the G2 launched with, a over a year ago. The reason why the Titan is limited to 14.4 is cause HTC/Microsoft used an old as **** (by mobile standards) SoC that only supports 14.4...
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Glad you brought up the data speeds. That's another area where the Infuse is wildly superior to any current WP7 device. The Infuse is a 21Mb/s 4G phone. The best current WP7 phone is stuck with 3G.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
I'm glad he brought up the radio, cause Samsung gets that advantage by default since every single HTC phone I've owned has had a weak cell radio, including this HD7 which gets no Signal where my Vibrant gets Edge at times. Around here where I only get a GPRS signal (basicaly you call and text, but I have WiFi in my house, also), I can't even send a text on my HD7 (P.S. the Vibrant has WiFi calling which allows Calling and Texting over WiFi, anyways, and the minutes are free when I talk over WiFi FTW!). That's why I'm literally forced to double fist on a daily basis. The Cell Radio in my Vibrant is fast and the download speeds in T-Mobile's HSPA+ market here (only 20 minutes away, and I train there) is competitive with the HSPA+ speeds you get on a G2.

That exacerbates battery life issues, btw, since the radio is drawing more power trying to fish for a signal.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
From what I'm seeing, that benchmark is of the 1 GHz chips, not the 1.2/1.5 chips. The Titan uses the MSM8255T chipset. It's not listed in that benchmark. It does have the Adreno 205 though, so you might be right about GPU, but not CPU. Both matter, so it's of personal opinion & need of which is better for said person. Yes, we know MS mandated out of date chips. That's a given, but the newer chips are not needed. Also what isn't clear is how that mandate works. All I've seen is a minimum requirement. I do know how to research on my own, but in this case. I'm leaving it up to you as you are the one saying that Hummingbird is better. The burden of proof rests on your shoulders, not mine, sorry. So, don't give me the Google thing. I Google all the time. I'm not going to go out of my way for you.

---------- Post added at 08:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 PM ----------

Technically, there is no current 4G. LTE is not 4G. HSPA = 3.5G, LTE = 3.75G

4G = LTE Advanced;

Peak Download	1 Gbit/s

Peak Upload	500 Mbit/s
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
It's a GPU benchmark. Jeeze...

From Anandtech...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4064/glbenchmark-20-released-modern-socs-benchmarked
[Windows Phone 7 General] :
speedfreak228, I will give you a short summary.

I've previously had the HTC Hero and the Motorola Milestone 2 so I am not too unfamiliar with the Android platform. I currently have the Samsung Focus.

Pros:

The performance is superb. Unlike on Android, I don't experience any hang or lag. Also, I never has a crash and has never has to do a battery pull.

The apps share similar UI and theme which provides for a cohesive experience unlike apps on Android which greatly varies from one another.

The browser is smooth. Specifically pinch-to-zoom and scrolling is butter smooth unlike Android browser which is choppy.

The Marketplace is of higher quality that Android Market. Specifically, it's much easier to find quality apps and most paid apps have free trial.

Cons:

No build-in turn-by-turn navigation. I have to buy "Turn by Turn Navigation" which is $4.99 from the Marketplace.

Browser takes a long time to load a page because it uses Internet Explorer 7. (Fixed in Mango which uses Internet Explorer 9 and load pages in half the time)

Speech just not as great as Android. Windows Phone has speech search and in Mango, voice-to-text and text-to-voice and other features, but it's just not as integrated into the whole OS as Android.

Bing Maps works great in North America, but once I travel to Europe and it sucks. I had to download gMaps (free) which is based on Google Maps.

Recommendation:

Anyway, for you I recommend the Samsung Focus S. It has 4.3" Super AMOLED Plus screen and will be release in October.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Microsoft achieves better performance by using a hardware scaler. The images are rendered at a lower resolution and then upsized by the hardware to fit in a WVGA resolution. This is why WP7 scales so well to so many different display sizes.

That has nothing to do with the OS being more efficiently coded, per se, but they did use a superior means of ensuring high performance so they get kudos to that. That is a bit innovative. They deserve credit for it.

However, I find it completely comical that someone is arguing with me thinking the 205 is superior to the SGX540.

And the Hummingbird isn't used on newer Samsung high end/flagship devices anymore. They're using the Exynos processor (which is certainly better) in the Galaxy S II, except in the T-Mobile variant which uses a Snapdragon for 42 Mbps HSPA+ support (fooey :( ). That being said, the discussion was IRT the Infuse 4G and not the Galaxy S II. The GPU is still superior, though.

Also, of note, Android didn't get Hardware Accellerated UI until Gingerbread. There is no lag on the Galaxy S II. Bad phones are bad phones. Get a phone from a good OEM if you want a good experience. HTC has always been pretty crappy IRT quality. People just like them because Sense is pretty/has pretty widgets and on the other end HTC has historically been developer-friendly. I don't think a majority of people choose HTC for the hardware, cause Samsung is clearly superior there - for reasons aforementioned and more.

This is why I say the Focus S is the clear winner unless you feel you need the bigger screen. That being said, WP7 does shackle it's OEMs so you probably won't see a genuine Samsung "Flagship" WP7 device for a while... Maybe quite a while... That would severely hurt Nokia and I don't think Nokia or Microsoft want to do that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Spookidoodles:
Just so you know Mango has turn by turn navigation built into maps, and it works really well.

To the OP - this guys answer is spot on. I had a Desire, iPhone and now own a Samsung Omnia 7 - I'd never go back.

definately go a Samsung - side by side a SAMOLED screen makes most other screens quality laughable.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
He means Voice-Guided Navigation. Mango's implementation falls a few apples short of the tree. There are already threads about that, though...

[youtube]UZrTEohyfKo[/youtube]

"You've gone a different way - TAP anywhere...."

He's in a car, driving... The phone is telling him to tap the screen. How was this idea even allowed to germinate in Microsoft?!

Bing Maps TBT Nav on Windows Mobile (HD2):

[youtube]2BJlv6doAJY[/youtube]

^^ That's a pretty embarassing regression in functionality and (dare I say) user experience...

And this comment sums up the issue many people (myself included) have with it, besides the obvious...

---------- Post added at 10:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

Addendum to the above... What a lot of us have been saying since day 1, being overruled by lots of noise in the forums, is that it's not about being able to Customize the OS, Hack it, Root it, Sideload apps. It's about obvious stuff like this being implemented in the most retarded fashion on WP7 (nevermind it was missing for almost a year, then they are throwing this at us?) when it's implemented much better elsewhere - for free.

It's not solely about comparing WP7 to Android/iOS/etc.

Microsoft can't even do better than their own apps on their own dying platform.

Windows Mobile Shipped with Windows Live Messenger/Mail integrated in 2007. Bing Maps Navigation has been available for years now on Windows Mobile with proper TBT VG Navigation...

But we had to wait almost a year for an IM app on WP7 and get this for Navigation? This is tickling at best, and dangerous at worse. They should not have even allowed that out of the discussion room, IMO.

Working well is subjective. I think they way they implemented that is reckless. However, that's is only MY opinion.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
That's true. The AT&T 4G network is not real 4G. But it is labeled 4G and my point of bringing it up is to denote the difference in data speed between the Infuse data and any WP7 phone. The Infuse does, in fact, do the higher level data speed of most other 4G phones, which are limited to 14.4Mb/s. The Infuse does 21Mb/s.

Not only would the 3G only WP7 phone be far slower than the slower HSPA+ speeds, it would be significantly slower than the Infuse.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
BTW, Can anyone on RTM Mango confirm how Voice Guided Navigation works?

If it's tap between directions, competitors might be able to (hystically accurately) portray WP7 as the most dangerous smartphone to get your teenage drivers.

There's already a huge no-texting campaign going on. Last thing people want is their children getting in wrecks because they had tap the screen for directions on the freeway.
[Windows Phone 7 General] speedfreak228:
I think I started a big debate lol. I wasn't trying to compare the current wp7 phones to my infuse. I was trying to find out what wp7 phones are available and the ones that are suppose to be available, sorry for the confusion. I really like the customization of my android and I'm afraid that will be what I miss if I switch to wp7. Is there any development for theses phone like for my infuse?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Wow, what a thread...

The part about audio was utter BS. Microsoft doesn't mandate that OEMs don't use external codecs, and there are devices with great sound, and devices with poor sound.

The argument about people being less enthusiastic about WP7 is absolutely ridiculous. It's normal for enthusiasm to fade away if you're a sane person.

I'm not sure what this Infuse is but if it's SGS2 then congrats, Android may finally have gotten a decent device, judging by what I hear about it.

So if somebody doesn't see anything wrong with Android and has hardware he likes, why bother switching?

---------- Post added at 11:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------

There is some development but it's nascent so if you like customizing you'll miss it on WP7. Maybe not though, I know people who used to like to customize and now don't. I myself used to use ROMs I built for myself. Now I don't care.

So nobody can answer that for you. Try a WP7 device and see if you like it. Asking questions like this here is like smoking on a gunpowder factory.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
The audio issue isn't b.s. Your being clueless.

And the infuse is more a galaxy s 1.5.

The galaxy s 2s are just coming out. Sprint just launched the epic 4g touch.

Microsoft mandates the soc (so they have weaker graphics than a phone from a year ago. I'm talking games/3d don't really care about ui) in the chips. All the wp7 devices have favorably worse sound than phones and galaxy s devices.

Being better than terrible can still be bad, and the sound is bad. If you don't own a galaxy s, then you have no base for comparison and should shut up on the matter.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
The audio issue is total BS. You can go to a site that tests audio (gsmarena.com, for example), and you'll see a huge difference in audio performance between WP7 devices. Microsoft doesn't mandate audio chips.

Galaxy S has exceptional audio quality. iPhone class. That doesn't have anything to do with the OS though, or hardware requirements. Some WP7 phones are excellent in this department. Some are horrible. Galaxy S would still be better than any one of them.

If it didn't have Android on it with tons of Samsung crapware, and if it didn't have pentile matrix it would be almost perfect.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
That's a load of bull. MS does mandate the hardware specs and the current crop.of WP7 phones all have the same hardware. That.means they all have the same CPU and audio system, which is the known SoC. And that system has horrific.audio quality. That's a fact.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

And no, the better Audio quality has nothing to do with the OS, just like the better display on the Galaxy S has nothing to do with the OS.

It's purely a hardware thing.

Also, the Snapdragon doesn't integrate a sound chip. It integrates a CPU, GPU, Modem, and GPS IIRC.

The focus actually has decent sound, but that's another Samsung device. The HTC Surround didn't turn out so well :P
[Windows Phone 7 General] NotTarts:
No, N8ter is right, Snapdragon doesn't include an audio chip, among others. It only includes a CPU, GPU, modem, and GPS chip:

http://www.qualcomm.com/snapdragon/specs

Microsoft most certainly does not enforce a certain type of audio chip. All evidence points to the contrary:
[Windows Phone 7 General] morpheuszg:
Well, I had PDA/Smartphones since 2002 and I loved customization but did it for about 7 years and I'm done with it. I cannot stand it any longer to fiddle with my device until it suits me. I flashed ROMs/changed homescreen nearly every week/month in hope for better performance etc. Now with WP7 I don't have to do that anymore and really appreciate this as this OS runs smooth out of the box. And that is the thing, not everyone wants to fiddle with their devices. Customization brings many problems in terms of efficiency.

As for audio, I have quite a good quality with HTC's SRS WOW extension and my Sennheiser headphones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] NotTarts:
I agree completely. When I started my plan, I had the choice between the Samsung Galaxy S and the Omnia 7. I did all the research, I looked through forums like XDA, trawled the internet for reviews, tried it out in the store, etc, but ultimately I chose the Omnia 7 because everything just works. No need to fiddle with settings or customise it to suit me. Unlike the rest of XDA, it seems, I don't enjoy tweaking or hacking. I just do what I need to do with the phone and that's it. I gave up everything the Android ecosystem offers - customisation, features, app catalogue - for the ease and consistency of Windows Phone, and after two months I haven't regretted it since.
[Windows Phone 7 General] FiyaFleye:
Why do people like Marty spend their lives in the WP section? At least N8ter is rational (most of the time) and sounds educated and unbiased... You can't have a single thread, granted this one was about the switch, without it becoming a bash session from a few users. The first page of this thread makes me not even want to keep reading.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
MS never said anything about audio chips & just because Snapdragon doesn't have one doesn't mean an OEM can't add one. So, it's a hardware issue with OEM's, not software. As for the GPU, I said you might be right & that last benchmark you gave does look to prove so, but it's not all about GPU, it's about CPU as well. You're focusing on graphics, not the whole picture. Also, that's a Samsung (& Apple) chipset. So it's not available to all OEMs.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sayonical:
To the OP I switched from android to wp7.

Pros

Your google mail contacts and calendar will sync natively.

Windows Live offers hotmail calendar skydrive (25gb free autouploads photos and documents)

Its a very smooth experience ZERO lag

Hubs like Zune are amazing multimedia experiences

Built in apps like twitter/facebook/linkedin are top notched

Live tiles have gotten so much more robust in mango

Bing audio, vision, local scout, fm radio built in, xbox live games, built in office hub that syncs with cloud

Messaging Hub with built in facebook and messenger chat cut my text usages from over 1000 daily to below 300!

Cons

Very little in the way of customization. Homescreen background is dark or light. Tiles have several colors to choose from.

Currently 31000 apps in the market place but some popular titles aren't here yet. I have no doubt they will show up soon.

Turn by Turn Navigation in mango needs work!

I think the pros far outweigh the cons. In WP7 you customize your phone interms of your content. You can pin almost anything to the start screen. The tiles aren't static they change, flip, update and make your phone breathe! Its beautiful
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Why do people like you spend your life monitoring everything people like myself post? I own a WP7 device and that gives me full rights to be here and criticize or praise it however I desire. I praise the parts that are praise worthy and criticize the parts that are deficient.

But if you think you can sway me from holding any negatives to myself just to suit you, you're in for a rough ride.

---------- Post added at 07:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 AM ----------

The fact is, all current hardware is identical. There are no dedicated audio chips in any current WP7 phones. And the SQ is horrible...if you use a decent set of higher-end IEMs. The SQ is certainly passable when using $5 or $10 ear buds.

--------------------------------------

I love the new post formatting system. Excellent. It automatically puts separate posts in one post.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
The fact is whether they are all the same or not, there's nothing stopping OEMs from adding it.

Agree, I like it too. Also, isn't it grand being a WP7 user who actually see the short comings of WP7? You praise it & all the haters come out of the woodwork. You criticize the OS in any way & all the fanbios show up. You get hit from both sides. Nice to meet a reasonable person finally.
[Windows Phone 7 General] FiyaFleye:
No Marty, I don't monitor posts, I try to read threads, but unfortunately people like you ruin the experience because you're butt hurt Microsoft doesn't cater to your demands. So instead of offering opinions, you go around spreading your "facts" & making it sound as though the OS is pointless. Just look at your approach in this thread, your opinions are portrayed as facts & ultimate perception.

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
No Fiya, they aren't anything but my personal experiences with WP7. The fact is, you get your panties in a bunch when someone dares speak of any negatives about WP7. You lash out at anyone who would dare say the truth about it all. You want everybody to only say fairy tale good things about WP7.

Sorry to break it to you, but none of us lives in a fairy tale world.
[Windows Phone 7 General] NotTarts:
No, it's not identical, and that's been pointed out multiple times in this thread. It's difficult to take you seriously if you state criticisms as 'fact' without prior evidence and continue to ignore other posts that show the contrary.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Prove it.

.........................
[Windows Phone 7 General] NotTarts:
I already did. Are you going to show evidence that suggests otherwise?
[Windows Phone 7 General] hegemytouch:
Idk if this was said already but go to the android market and download launcher7...it gives you the tiles its pretty cool...best part about it that its free and with a hit of a button you can go to android...

S7 Infuse 1.6 Ghz
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Yes, I will. It will take me a little while to track down all of the model specs. But I will do it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
To a point your are both right. They are identical in that all existing WP7 use the same SoC, but they are not truly the same as they use different screens/camera lens/gps parts/batteries/hardware buttons/digitizers/speakers/etc. All of this is evident in the fact that all devices have different drivers. One might say that the HD2 & HD7 are the same exact device, but this isn't true. You can't flash the HD7's WP7 ROM onto an HD2. You'd brick it, so they are not the same.
[Windows Phone 7 General] NotTarts:
Exactly - it's like saying the HTC Desire HD is identical to the Incredible S because they use the same SoC. We already pointed this out to Marty but he either missed or ignored the posts.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Here's the proof and facts. Out of the 11 WP7 models, only the two LGs are slightly different in their SoC. And I need to mention that I meant the SoC. I knew and know the displays are different from phone to phone and the memory is slightly different. But the system is identical...the part that contains the CPU, GPU and audio as well as wireless and radio. And the reason for this is so MS could send out updates at the same time to all WP7 phones. But Samsung threw a monkey wrench into the whole works with all the system troubles they had in the beginning. MS apparently abandoned the control of the updates after that.

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_focus-3453.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i8700_omnia_7-3537.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd7-3338.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd7s-3887.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_7_surround-3557.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_7_trophy-3118.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_7_mozart-3530.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/dell_venue_pro-3280.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/lg_e900_optimus_7-3532.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/lg_quantum-3558.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_7_pro-3576.php