yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
Hi and thanks for the feedback. With a negative attitude the thread will lead to nowhere yes. That was what people said a year ago when they said that WP7 will never run on the HD2 but the devs ultimately got there. Thanks for answering the question re the Android drivers though.

You are RIGHT that the drivers in WP7 are closed source drivers ... so is MAGLDR. Rewriting another bootloader (if needed) which does not have all the frills of MAGLDR but which is open source could be a possibility.

I am not interested in getting into the WP7 ROM and modifying the drivers built in ... We have to use a technique similar to what they use when creating emulators by reverse engineering ... The most die hard emulators out there such as some of the Playstation emus out there were all closed source but it did not stop the devs from doing a proper emulation of the console.

I'd really appreciate if you could be more specific when you said that we are using the stuff which was leaked from the original "LEO" ROM ... as far as I know, is it not the Schubert which was leaked? Correct me if I'm wrong ... We got too far to give up just now...

Multitouch games do not work .. with the current Multitouch driver .. mainly due to the finger position bug .... This is explained in detail on youtube.

Sound is distorted because the input gain is too high ...

Let's not speak about the camera for now ... I think those are the two major issues which need to be remedied for now. Hopefully this thread will get us somewhere.

Regards

Al
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] backlashsid:
Good initiative ! I hope we can make things work.

Also for those with the negative attitude...if you dont have anything good to say...dont say !
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
Nicely said and many thanks
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
That is not exactly fixing the issue... It just modifies the maxima and minima ... The sound (input gain) is too high making it sound distorted from the HD2. The fix does remedy this a bit but its ... erm not really fixing the problem.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] dazza9075:
do think this would be a good idea, but its not being negative pointing out the obvious issue, its being realistic.

you see the point you made on MAGLDR and WP7 running of the HD2 is mute, and im not sure you fully understand its use, there are fundamental differences in making WP7 believe the HD2 is a native device and changing the actual drivers, you see, the SPL for the HD2 was opened up a long time ago with HSPL to be put in place which pretty much allowed us to do anything, the next critical piece was MAGLDR, which sat on top of the HSPL which gave us the potential to install android then WP, both HSPL and MAGLDR are very much programed by folk on here, they were not "hacked" or copied, they are closed source as you put it but they are built for a purpose of doing exactly what they do, enable custom ROMs, for WM, Android and WP to install. But that’s not the issue, the issue is a driver

To be clearer on the matter, IF WP7 had never been tested on the HD2 initially then we would never have had it.

The reasons for the bugs we talk about are because we have test drivers that were never supposed to see the end user. Had we not had that opportunity with the drivers on the HD2 then we would have been up the creek with it.

There are only a number of possibilities to get what we want

•HTC/OEMs go out of their way to finish the HD2 WP7 drivers and give them to use

•HTC/OEMs gives us the Relevant code and tools to do it ourselves

•We find native Windows phone devices that uses EXACTLY the same hardware which we can borrow

•Finally, the wildcard, someone who happens to know how to program for the hardware in question comes to help us.

That is it im afraid, its not being negative, you want to know what we need to do, well, there you go, the chances of HTC etc helping us are almost non-existent, finding devices with the same hardware, well i think we have more of a chance of HTC giving us them, BUT thats more to do with the very old digitiser we have, less so with the other hardware elements, so there is a possibility there.

Finding someone who can actually build a driver from the ground up? its possible, but short of putting adverts out on every developer website asking for help its not likely we will find one from this thread alone.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] backlashsid:
ur right...man sometimes i so feel like bombarding Drew Bamford (product design HTC) emails about windows phone 7 and androi on HD2 and force him to be convinced to make drivers for us....its our right :D

but then again...can we really ???:rolleyes::confused:
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Livven:
I'd say... let's do this! If we get enough people, and those will send emails like everyday, then why not? There's nothing to lose :D
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] dazza9075:
IF, and its a big IF, we are going to get it working better its going to need ideas like the comment from backlashsid to get unofficial support from these companies

In my humble opinion there is little chance of getting anything else working better without the support of people in the loop, essentially that means HTC and Qualcomm, but remember that by getting the HD2 running WP7 we are costing them money in lost sales, so there is little incentive for them to support us in an official capacity, what we're looking for is an insider! :)

it doesnt hurt hunting for new devices with the same hardware but its unlikely anyone would use old gear.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Tho San Thanh Pho:
This would be nice so then we (as the community of XDA) can show off our HD2's as the beast-mode phone and bestest phone ever!
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
Hi Again

I appreciate your reply and the trouble you took compiling this. I think you might have misunderstood me. And I would not like to deviate from the main issue which are the drivers.

MAGLDR does much more than merely being a bootloader. It's an abstraction layer which exists between the primary bootloader and the windows phone 7 OS. It is linking the drivers within the OS to the existing hardware ... it acts as a WRAPPER as we call it in Linux ...

Had we had access to the source code, (as is the case with android) the issue would have been much simpler.... I would really appreciate if you are knowledgeable about the matter to tell us where we got the drivers from. If I understood you right, you are saying that there was a WP7 ROM being developed for the HD2 and hence we are using its test drivers.....

As far as hardware is concerned, most probably the closest phone out there to the HD2 is the HD7 (Schubert) but this needs to be backed up by some research. I firmly believe that this could be a key/way forward in improving our WP7 experience. I dont believe that petitions / emails / stuff will get us anywhere.

I would really appreciate if you could illuminate us more about the matter regarding the "test drivers" you mentioned. If you can back this up with a thread, link . source of reference it would be much more of use. I might have misunderstood you but I never have read that the LEO had drivers being developed for WP7 by HTC. So the question here is simple.

- Where are the "test drivers" coming from?

- Which mobile were they being developed for?

- Who provided them?

- Which OS were they designed for?

I for one am not giving up on this. I firmly believe that this community has what it takes to solve this issue.

Regards

Al
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] backlashsid:
Thats exactly what I initially thought of posting it here in xda. Like the Gold leaf experiment....bombarding tons of email at one time...one was sure to hit the target and initiate a response ! Now that I see people in favor of it...we can actually do it.

We can even add a CC to Joe Belfiore and of course I dont need to tell you guys who that is :D

I don't see how they are loosing sales. Infact if this helps boost the Windows Phone 7 marketshare...why would Microsoft not want it ???

True HTC HD2 is an old device (now) and was made for Windows Mobile but HTC will realize it too that since people are getting a perfect Windows Phone 7 which they are satisfied with...why not give them one ?? This boosts HTC's marketshare too and since the HTC HD2 is going out of production...who knows what this change might bring to them...

Moral of the story is there is no harm trying....success or fail is a later story.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] dazza9075:
Aye, MS couldnt care less, market share and marketplace income, QC are less so because they probably sold in bulk the SoC, HTC on the other hand doesnt sell a spanky new device if we keep HD2 Running, market share doesnt increase if you use an old device, and the networks cant bend us over a barrell to crank up the tariffs, so they wouldnt be too chuffed either :)

As for MAGLDR i know what it does, but it doesnt change the fact that Cotulla made the thing, his probably one of the top great developers on this site, who is still very much active, a wrapper can only do so much, the physical driver for the touch screen for instance is at the very least considerably smaller (file size) than that of a fully working device (possibly why multi touch doesnt work correctly), our Touch screens do not use the same digitiser as the HD7, we can only guess as to why they didnt have a full driver, and the logical assumption to make is that why spend days or weeks making a driver your not going to use once HD7 parts come out, so its likely that several of the drivers where bodged together to fill a small gap in time to allow them to get on with WP7 development before native devices were made.

So, Its very likely that the HD2 port of WP7 was designed so that they can work on the HD7 before parts were made available, DTF got that, never released anything other than a working ROM, no tools or anything

I see what your saying, your wanting MAGLDR to be fixed or replaced that will fix everything, well, speak to Cotulla, he made it and can tell you why thats not going to fix it, in fact he can probably answer any question you have on anything HD2 related, guys a genius! :)
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
I got your point but still we just cannot give up here. We got too close to the native thing and there must be a way forward.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
First of all many thanks for your answers. Ok so you are saying that there was a LEO WP7 ROM (in beta stage) which Cotulla got his hands on...Could someone back this up by some source of reference to substantiate this? I know he is a genius and am very grateful to him! But it does not harm if we could contribute for improvement. The OS runs so well. Fixing these drivers should not be an issue as gross as running the OS in the first place ....Am looking into it to see if I can find some traces.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] dazza9075:
Speak to cotulla, DFT had the original test Rom, his apart of that team. Another way of looking at it is on the pc, take an old 1990s gpu, say a geforce tnt2, pop that in a x64 windows 7 system, it'll work, but not very well as you don't have drives for it. We are in a similar situation. New OS, old hardware, no 100% working drivers.

Some things will work, others won't. The difference is on a pc it allows the end user to fiddle, we not supposed to do that on an hd2.

As for proof, im away from home but I've read 100s of posts an you can piece together the info.

The tricky bit is dft website isn't in English makingit hard to see what's being said.

Drop cotulla a message, he will have a much better understanding than anyone, if he tells me otherwise I'll gladly retract my points. You can find him on here, just search his name
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] TonyCubed:
No, this is actually correct. There was an original Leo ROM, actually, it was the very first ROM that was released along with MAGLDR. Again, replacing MAGLDR will not fix the problem, nor will bothering Cotulla about stuff he already knows about.

As the user above has already said, Cotulla is one of the greatest devs on XDA, he's still working on Leo, it's just taking time and a lot of patience, something that people need to have a lot more than making loads of threads about problems we already know about (I'm not really referring to this thread).

Actually, what I should also tell you as I think you need to do a little more reading on the history of the HD2 is this: MAGLDR is a chain loader. It's simply a gap between the HTC boot loader and the WP7/Android loader. All it does is load the ROM and flash the device, that's all it does. It doesn't actually run in the background of the WP7/Android OS or anything like that.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] TonyCubed:
Microsoft don't really give a crap if we install WP7 on our device, but they do give a crap if HTC offered WP7 for HD2 users. This is because:-

1) Licence issues

2) Microsoft designed WP7 to have a specific set of features (3 buttons, 4/5 point multi-touch which the HD2 isn't capable of etc). And it was this which stopped the HD2 from getting WP7. Offering WP7 for HD2 users would in a way, hurt the WP7 experience that Microsoft is trying to push.

HTC are a very co-operative company, but they won't do anything to piss Microsoft off, this would technically break their licence between the companies as the HD2 is not an official WP7 device.

For us to get a working device, someone from HTC would need to leak all the info about the HD2 out (So devs could then start making a driver) or, someone from HTC to "leak" a new set of drivers (won't happen) OR have a bit of patience and _HOPEFULLY_ a dev can fix it.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
I think you are a bit wrong on the reading I do... MAGLDR is not just a chain loader. Everyone said WP7 is closed source so no drivers got changed in the ROM. The ROMS we install think the mobile is in actual fact an HD7. MAGLDR contains a wrapper for every hardware driver on the HD2 to link the existing IPL/SPL on the mobile to the OS which they do not have access to. Something can indeed be improved and will keep looking into it. I'm a developer as well.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
Thanks for the help. Will do.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] stirkac:
guys you have too much crazy ideas here. like cLK that could "magically cure" multitouch issues.. and emailing htc to do drivers for you? are you outta your mind? do you even know a tad about how mobile phones work?

htc and M$ can sue us all for decompiling/pirating their software, which could even mean the end of XDA as we know it.

xda developers have during time developed "i'll leave you, you leave me" pact with htc, because what we do is criminal by law, but htc knows that get's them more customers.

Cotulla already said he is working on new version so wait with all that crazy stuff!

ATTENTION TO ALL BORED PEOPLE: go help in animal shelters, homeless people, whatever until new versions come. just don't do crazy **** if you do not know what you are getting in.

i hope this thread gets deleted as soon as possible.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
It was already stated that contacting M$ and HTC will lead us to nowhere. Getting sued by Microsoft for what legitimately should have been on our phone is unlikely. I for one bought the HD2 because I had been promised "it would have a WP7 update once its out"... This wasn't me talking about it, it was the salesman who sold me the phone, HTC and M$. Only God knows how many out there were tricked like so...nice try though...
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] stirkac:
you can't blame anyone. they will feed you all kinds of **** just to sell something. it wasn't htcs or m$ claim, just some guy who knows less than 99% of xda users about phones.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] dazza9075:
well actually no, thats not true, it was on MS own website at one point and i believe even HTC made references to it as well.

As for Sueing people, im at a loss for words, as said, no one is officially going to help, but that doesnt mean that individual developers wont, personally i dont think they will but trying is still more constructive than your "comment". If you know the history of XDA dev way back to the days of the XDA line of devices that the site was made for you will know that MS once did consider kicking up a stink, but they soon saw sense and didnt, why? because we may only number in the 1000s on this site now, but we talk to others and that is free publicity to them, to reach the number of people that we know would cost them millions, so no, i think its safe to say that that isnt going to happen.

I happen to think this is a waste of time, but one thing is for sure, at least his trying to do something constructive rather than shout, rant and rave with bad language thrown in for good measure.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Ruzzichella:
Hi stirkac... i think that this thread is useful...

is a way to create a devolping team...

or find useful information...

what's your problem???

then... if you know all the operation that new phone do...

help me decompiling the arm compiled code!!!!
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] backlashsid:
I can already see where this is going !!
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] warriorvibhu:
There is nothing like genuine in this world what was said above is so true .. when i set out to buy HTC HD2 i was promised a WP7 upgrade and yes not just any salesman but people with HTC were saying so too .. also there were various sources Like these

http://www.redmondpie.com/windows-mobile-7-confirmed-for-htc-hd2-9140293/

http://news.softpedia.com/news/HTC-HD2-Will-See-Official-Windows-Mobile-7-Upgrade-127718.shtml

which confirmed HD2 would get a WP7 upgrade .. So in short believe it or not .. I really admire what a beautiful piece HD2 is .. and i really love all the hard work done by So many devs for HD2 . i wont name them coz they are many .. each contribution big or small counts ......to cut short..

ALL HD2 OWNERS HAVE BEEN DITCHED BY BEING PROMISED A FREE WP7 UPGRADE..and by companies like Microsoft and HTC by taking advantage of such Rumours they never bothered to clear the air about people having doubts of free Upgrade ..

which according to me is irresponsible.. and when we all managed to RUN WP7 on our own (Community work and ofcourse thanks to DFT..Cotulla..every dev).. These companies wont even give us drivers .. Pathetic..

Also i would Suggest you all to Sign this Petition.. and request the mod to move this wherever he wants so maximum people sign the petition..​
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] maneken25:
Hi, im not Dev or anything similar so cant help on this.

But reason why writting is we as customers of HTC have right to show them our opinion. They(Microsoft and Htc) promised in good manner to support own products and this promise cannot be forgoten to easy.

Second thing, this topic is useful atleast in way to see how ppl think about WP7 and Hd2 ofcourse if we all keep behaving mature, constructive and creative, as allready one person said if you dont have anything usefull to say then dont write.

Btw, also signed pettition from post above me.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
Many thanks for support. It is actually the fact that HTC and M$ decided to neglect the HD2 that I got motivated to do something about it. The HD2 is perfectly capable of running WP7 ... it has 5 hardware buttons as opposed to 3 so that completely invalidates M$ stupid excuse that the phone ain't capable of running WP7... lets not mention the rest of the hardware ... everything's fantastically compliant to the WP7 OS... no matter what some say .... They say that it's incapable of running on HD2 because they "read that" not because the phone is technically incapable of running WP7 .... The multitouch screen of the HD2 is capacitive and capable of handlind two or more touches ... this has yet to be seen and exploited as to how many simultaneous touches it can handle. I for one never believed M$'s statements that Hd2 cannot run WP7. Nobody with a bit of brains did .....then when these people (with less brains) saw the Hd2 running WP7 siad it was a mireacle! duh! It is dev's skills like Cotulla that did it.

Some other people pointed out that they provided the LEO70 ROM was built for the HD2. I'm afraid that this is not exactly the case. The LEO70 ROM was produced thanks to the WP7 emulator that was provided by M$ themselves in order to be provided to devs for producing WP7 apps.

I really wish if some people with experience in drivers could provide us with some insight on the matter. In the meantime I'll keep looking and searching.

Regards

Al
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
Exactly, I can confirm I read all this on the M$ website at one point.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
Grazie mille...
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] backlashsid:
Someone should actually type a good email template for HTC (if not MS) well written....explaining them about the status of HD2 and Windows Phone 7 and may be we all can copy n paste n send the same email...regarding the same issues...if they see more and more people are complaining/inquiring about the same problem...may b they start taking interest...i mean no harm trying !
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] dazza9075:
Just Curious about something, where did you get the info that the Leo test ROM was made from the Emulator? The reason i ask is that the Emulator is x86, i would have assumed that anything on that would have been useless for the ARM processor.

an correct me if I’m wrong but i don’t think MS ever said that it "couldn’t" run WP7 i think the closest would be that it wouldn’t run WP7, and there reasoning being that it didn’t support the "image" that Microsoft wanted, from My understanding of events it was that MS wanted all OEMs to follow strict guidelines to help keep the image MS wanted (WM was a great OS but was screwed over by the OEMs and Networks)

Thus the 3 buttons thing wasn’t a case of you need to have a minimum of 3 buttons, it was that they wanted all WP7 devices to only HAVE three buttons

That’s my interpretation of events anyway
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] dazza9075:
Just seen this post, the HD2 and the HD7 are very different, its not just a port of a ROM, the digitiser for one is very different, you then have several other internal features that are different, these things need drivers, and that is the stumbling block, DFT, Xboxmod, yuki and co can fiddle with the OS and change what ever they want. what we dont have access to is the ability to modify that driver or get a new one.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Deadknight:
Since wp is wince 6.0 base, is it possible to develop driver for them?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee483089(v=WinEmbedded.60).aspx

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/library/ee485224(v=WinEmbedded.60).aspx
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] mapleleafs89:
Works in fruit ninja for me, but not well. Camera sucks, and sound sucks (if its a sound quality issue, I have that)

Hopefully someone does improve the drivers.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Fisher_9511:
Isn't it possible to modify some values in the registry to improve the use of multitouch and sound ?! (Xboxmod's volume cab's are already very useful)

EDIT: I've made a video yesterday, which didn't look good one my phone (colors and sound were horrible) but when I played it on Zune it was smooth, sound was great, and in good quality for a VGA shot.
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] dazza9075:
it might be possible to fix with a cab, but only if you have something to fix it with, we are missing a propper driver, its unfortunately not as simple as a reg fix
[HD2 Windows Phone 7 Development] Alcatrazx:
I'm afraid its just more than that ... it's not a problem in the OS ... simply because multitouch works on a native WP7 ... tinkering with what is OUTSIDE the OS to fix sound and multitouch issues as much as we can would be the ideal at this point ....