yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mast3rofPuppts:
I have been having the hardest time lately with my captivate but the newest problem is that the lock button doesnt work at all it seems to be a hardware issue rather than a software issue and i am currently running cyanogenmod7

Right now i want to restore it to stock rom but no matter what i try i cant get it into download mode or if i get it into recovery mode i cant d anything because the lock button is broken

Any suggestions?
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] speedy_11:
adb command can get you into download and recovery. jig can also get you into download

just tested: Search soft key is enter/select, back is back, menu is up, home is down
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mast3rofPuppts:
ok well i have it plugged in to my computer and set to screen never sleep while charging so i can still use it but when i try to flash it to stock using odin 3 it wont recongize that its in debugging mode is CM7 not compatible with it or something?
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mast3rofPuppts:
well i tried entering download mode and it started and just hung so idk what to do now cuz i took the battery out and now it starts up and says at and t world phone and is stuck there so i can no longer enter download mode or my phone so am i totally screwed at this point?

is my best bet go to the at and t store and be like i was updating kies with it and enter download mode and it got unplugged while updating?
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] artvandalay22222:
Well, if your phone still turns on, its still possible to fix it, however, you shouldn't have any problems getting one replaced.

Just tell them the phone said you had an update and you hit ok, play dumb and act upset.
[TouchPad General] deanwray:
well, my order of 4 from cpw came today, and I was going to get rid of spares and keep one if I thought they were no good (compared to all the tablets I have (Ipads,galaxy tabs, transformer, wierd brands etc) for dev purposes btw). But, omg, webOs so far is quite nice, the device aint too bad either. So going to give 3 to friends and family and keep 1 to play with. Downloading SDK as I type and had a quick read.

So, after not minding the hardware at all, and thinking that as a 1st pass young tablet webos is probably better than androids attempt, add to the fact that the SDK from reading (not use) looks to be even better than android......

Some1 remind me again, why did this thing fail? Just price? if thats the case, £299 would have made this and ensuing development a killer? Or am I missing some big point here?

Cheers
[TouchPad General] phobos512:
Cost, immature software, lack of features, small developer ecosphere, late to market, tons of competition...
[TouchPad General] deanwray:
baring the last two, that true of any os that has just come to market :)

Shame me thinks
[TouchPad General] slingster:
It fails because it is one of the most expensive, heaviest, thickest, and has the least features (no back camera, not way to connect USB/SD memory card...) and least tablet apps. Coming late in the game HP should have done a better job...no excuse. HP designed the tablet poorly...consumers are not stupid like them...very disappointed in in HP. Whoever design/engineer/market the Touchpad should be fired....such a waste of resources. Guess it's worth $99, at least they priced it correctly now.
[TouchPad General] wondercoolguy:
It the nail right on the head, but I think it's mainly because of the price. Apple has some one figured out a way of brain washing people to buy everything they put out at any price. Other companies haven't figured it out so until they do they need to figure out how to get the cost down on tablets. Could imagine the frenzy over the Galaxy 10.1 if it would have been priced 199 or 299?

The HP tab fire sale proves there is a market for the Tab but just not at the price they are bouncing around.
[TouchPad General] phobos512:
Granted, but webOS didn't come to market with the Touchpad - it's been out for several years. It was a very buggy platform from all the reading I've done, and there was still a fair number of issues even after the last patch was released (just go look at PreCentral).
[TouchPad General] phobos512:
Price was probably the biggest factor. It was more expensive than most any other tablet for less capability and less compatibility. For example, licking it down to print only to HP printers or tether to HP/Palm phones? Ridiculous.

It's sort of amazing the position Apple is in now given how bad off they were in the late 80s and 90s. Really sucked being a Mac user back then (haven't been a Mac user since then though).
[TouchPad General] deanwray:
well, I agree (Being a 3D artist myself) that the design is a little off, but I do like the form factor of these (and obviously my iPad) and that factor suits my development plans for tablets more than my transformer or indeed any of my 10inch tablets.

I would be in heaven even with the weight and cribb design if this was an android unit with the same UI features etc at a £250 price point.

I personally think this device and OS had great potential for a tablet, but like you say, if the palm devices showed lots of buggs, maybe hp could have never sorted it with the team they had. Still say shame though :(
[TouchPad General] dtblair24:
Pretty much failed because the general populations definition of a tablet is the iPad. Like others said, price and too many competitors. After a couple of days with my Touchpad, and some tweaking, I like it. I am impressed with webOS.

But I feel bad for the poor souls who bought this thing from the get-go for 500 bucks because performance wise it has it's hiccups for no reason. Notice some lag sometimes for no reason and delays when trying to do simple things. I feel like the auto rotate is too sensitive as well.
[TouchPad General] deanwray:
Have you installed preware and in turn the log diable stuff, speed stuff and the OMG it's now way too loud sound mod!

what.....I'm deff!
[TouchPad General] soneracar:
so to say it just sucks is not what the op is looking for.

The unit itself is amazing. I have been a die hard android fan with my hd2 but the ui of this tablet is extremely functional. Having multiple frames for apps makes this an amazing item for me. The keyboard is very easy to use and the quality of the item is A+. Like many others I would like the android market but webOS. Two big things for me is the memory expansion and no hdmi out but I will live. If I were to release this product I would say 299 and 399 would be fair.

I think the price is the only reason it failed. From using the xoom and iPad I find this, minus the features listed above, to be the better unit. $99 is an amazing deal for this great piece of machinary.
[TouchPad General] zirra:
Here's one reason:

"Rubinstein wasn't exactly thrilled about the timing of the TouchPad's release, saying CEO Leo Apotheker had failed to make good on a public promise to ship the tablet only when it was "perfect."

Source
[TouchPad General] advocate2:
I think a bigger issue deals with consumer education about a new OS. The transition from an android phone to an android tablet or an iphone to an iPad is seamless WebOS phones had a miniscule market share. WebOS came to market late in the game. It took an incredible price on the TP to get consumers to take the leap to a new platform. Now that they are here they may like what they see.
[TouchPad General] muyoso:
It failed for one simple reason. The OS and apps weren't ready and weren't polished. I think the hardware is amazing, save for the volume rocker and the super thin "home" button and maybe the screen which apparently generates its own fingerprints and smudges out of thin air. The OS on the other hand has so much potential but they completely screwed it. If I had purchased this at anything over 150, which is what I paid for the 32gb, I would return it or sell it.

Take this one example. The browser doesn't load pages in the background. If you load a new card like you would a tab and return to the original browser card, the new one just sits there and does . . . nothing. Doesn't load or render the webpage. It just sits there like a bookmark to the site you wanted to load. I mean seriously? This is like iPad1 crap, which was solved in like a couple weeks with third party browsers. With 4 times the ram, for some reason WebOS doesn't find it necessary even without a single other app loaded on a fresh boot to actually load the card in the background. The way I browse the web is to load a trillion tabs and then go through them and read. That would be absolutely excruciating on the Touchpad.
[TouchPad General] deanwray:
About the same as the 1st Galaxy Tab P1000 android version :)

over 150 ? Bit harsh I think. From a development perspective, software is never finished, you just get to a point where you either HAVE to release or it's ACCEPTABLE to release.

I dont actually think thats a representation of the average user. I maybe open 7 tabs on a pc, I sure they would have put in background loading eventually.
[TouchPad General] imsuperjp:
this is exactly why it failed. Why do you have to tweak it for it to work smoothly. It should be like that out the box
[TouchPad General] deanwray:
name a tablet product other than ipad (ios) that at release was like what you wanted, smooth out of the box, cause I cant think of one?
[TouchPad General] deeman:
Honestly I don't think it failed because of the OS the majority of people out there are absolutely clueless as to what the difference android/ios and web OS brings when I recommend android phones to people nearly all of them haven't got a clue what I'm on about there more interested in if it can download apps. I personally think its more to do with marketing and more important price(why pay 399 for a unknown hp tablet when you can pay 399 for a apple ipad) people have to understand that the majority of consumers are near clueless about tech,ive gad so many people pick up android tabs asking if this is the ipad lol
[TouchPad General] jimisdad:
I think you have to go way back to the palm pre for the answer. Great OS. Not a bad spec phone for the time. But Sprint was the exclusive carrier and didn't do jack to promote it. So everyone was seeing iPhone this and Droid that. No one was hearing about webOS until it was in the news that they were broke and hp was buying them. That's my opinion anyway. I have a palm pre(in a desk) have an evo (daily driver) and I hands down would take webOS on the evo hardware any day.
[TouchPad General] broy55:
Everyone thinks this tablet has failed, if that's the case then why did a million people buy it? I know it's cheap compared to the iPad but with over a millions users this tablet should take off and be a big competitor with Apple. Maybe that was the intention all along, think how much HP saved on marketing, plus all the revenue they could get from some many users.

Give it a few months, Webos will be rocking the tablet world!
[TouchPad General] drsouly:
no it wont ...

the app store will never reach the critical mass of apps, necessary to get people hooked.

i personally am counting the days until android release..
[TouchPad General] Skunkeye:
Because it was a 10 inch tablet for a hundred bucks. Period. Most of the people buying them are just caught up in the frenzy, and probably half are looking to make a profit selling them on Ebay or Craig's List. That $100 magic number got a lot of people to take the plunge, even if they have no real use for or interest in a tablet. And a large portion of the people buying them are buying them in anticipation of Android being ported. If they had priced the fire sale at $200 for the 16GB, there would still be plenty in stock, but for a hundred dollar bill, people are willing to take the risk.

Back to the OP, I think everyone's on the money when they say price is why this product failed. HP brought out something that was, to the average buyer, completely new and unproven, and didn't even discount it from the established players' prices. The whole thing felt less like HP trying to do something revolutionary, and a lot more like HP jumping on the surging popularity of tablets and saying, "Me, too!"

Also, HP has a long history of trying to branch out their product line and almost immediately killing anything that's not an instant success, so this whole thing was pretty predictable from the start.
[TouchPad General] muyoso:
Maybe, but they don't have the luxury to be competing against a year old middling tablet.

Not harsh at all. There are very few apps that are optimized for the Touchpad. The browser that came on the Touchpad is RIDICULOUSLY buggy and lacks feature that all of the other mobile os' offer. Paying more than 150 at this point would only make sense if you were hoping for an Android port. Also, there are MAJOR performance issues throughout the OS that need to be patched with tweaks and which have been mentioned thoroughly in the Anandtech review of the tablet.

No, actually I think it is. When I go to a site like reddit, I go down the page and open up all of the links I will want to look at on the page in a new background tab before I view the first one. Then by the time I load up the last one, the first few are finished loading and I can just tap on the tabs and go through them quickly without wasting any time waiting for a single website to load. On the Touchpad, the only way to accomplish this is to longpress and select "Open in new card", wait for the new card to be created, wait for the new card to go fullscreen and wait for the site to begin loading and then hit the "home" button or swipe up and then tap on the original card. That is a usage problem that could easily have been solved by just loading the damn sites in the background without first having to allow the card to go fullscreen.
[TouchPad General] TooSlo:
As someone who works for MS, I can tell you that you're flat out wrong in feeling like you're an "average" user.

It's also pretty much guaranteed that anyone who visits a site like XDA is not an "average" user by any scope of the imagination. Even more so for a user who has been around since 2007 and has well over 1500 posts.
[TouchPad General] Sincitybronze:
I agree with this. I keep reading comments that say webos is so great (and I agree that the concept is in fact pretty cool), but the lack of multi-window functionality in the browser alone is very disappointing. There aren't enough apps available for this os to make the touchpad anything more than a just-for-fun entertainment/media tool, and it still doesn't deliver. Preader is mediocre for sideloaded books, adobe and kindle offer limited functionality, no adequate options for realistic word processing, no twitter (not impressed with spaz), no xda app. Most of the media-based options have to run through the browser and there are too many bugs. Facebook and YouTube are OK but those two features are not going to get me to reach for the touchpad over something with Android.
[TouchPad General] muyoso:
I don't think I am the average user. What I was trying to say was that opening tabs in the background and expecting them to load is something the average user would expect. While true that an average user probably doesn't browse the way I do, and I was wrong to imply that they do, I think a lot of users do.
[TouchPad General] Skunkeye:
Whether that's something the "average user" would or would not want isn't really the point, anyway. It's something that the other major tablets on the market have, so there's no excuse for HP to not have included that feature. It's not like they were developing this without having ever seen an iPad or a Galaxy Tab.

One of the major intended uses of a 10 inch tablet is for web browsing, and to not have the browser fully sorted at launch is a huge mistake.
[TouchPad General] BL4zD:
If the only way to sell this thing was to drop it to half its hardware cost (ignoring development and marketing cost) then that doesn't leave much to room to argue anything other than cost was a major factor in its many failings.

Apparently some people are going to try and argue that iPads aren't worth their cost but that's clearly not the case since it's the go to tablet. For people who don't think the iPad is worth it there's android. Where does that leave the Touchpad? Languishing on the back shelf gathering dust, which is what it did for six weeks until HP finally put it to sleep.

The greatest achievement the Touchpad has produced is all of the tortured justifications for its usefulness to anyone not trying to turn profit from flipping them. It's laughable that people are still going to cling to the old canard that iPad owners are brainwashed when the Touchpad firesale is the clearest example of herd mentality in the history of tablet sales.
[TouchPad General] zirra:
One of the reason why apple was able to push its ipads was because they educated the public/consumers why they produced the ipad and the need for one. HP on the other hand didn't quite get a clear message out there
[TouchPad General] muyoso:
Web OS is awesome, but its just not polished. It offers new features which neither iOS or Android offer such as the ability to send texts to your contacts through the messaging client. If they would have waited another month or two and really polished the hell out of this thing, and then dumped millions into advertisers and luring developers to their platform, then they could have easily done well in the market. I think pricing it the same as an iPad was ridiculous personally. They should have priced it at 299/349 and taken a loss on the initial tablets sold to develop a userbase. Within 6 months manufacturing and component costs would have fallen enough for them to turn a profit on each unit.

Then again, I am kind of glad they did it the way they did because it allowed me to get a VERY nice piece of hardware that hopefully will be able to run Honeycomb/ICS in the not too distant future for $157 OTD.
[TouchPad General] quest4fire:
Touchpad failed because HP priced it like the Ipad but it didnt have a large variety of apps and 2 cameras that the Ipad has. Im not expecting HP to have more apps than Apple but at least Android tablets have decent variety of apps to choose from. HP made a fatal mistake pricing it so high, why would someone buy a TP when you can get an Ipad for roughly the same price? If HP sold the TP for $249, while taking a loss to gain market entry it would have been successful and allowed webOs to grow. HP has other successful ventures that would have allowed it survive the losses which is what we are seeing from the fire sales.
[TouchPad General] letom:
My touchpad doesn't even have a camera app, that says it all.
[TouchPad General] deanwray:
actually, not sure that says it all, if that was ALL, then you should have purchased a camera ;)
[TouchPad General] phobos512:
Not really as the camera was only intended for video conferencing not taking photos. They did have a camera app in the giveaway the other day though...that's the only app I actually got out of the six.
[TouchPad General] GoodFoot:
For a product to succeed, it usually needs to be faster, better, or cheaper than competing products on the market. The TouchPad was none of those (before the fire sale, which of course made it much cheaper). HP gave no one a compelling reason to purchase it over an iPad or an Android tablet.
[TouchPad General] letom:
It doesn't really make sense, have a camera but no app to take pictures with it. Even if it was meant for video calling, it seems like a bit of a no brainer.

Either way it feels like its 2 big updates from being an awesome device, right now its a good device, which i love (especially for the price), but I would not pay over £150-200 for this.
[TouchPad General] phobos512:
It came with Skype which supports the video camera, so it fulfills its intended purpose. Do you imagine people only wanting to take pictures of themselves or things that are behind them?
[TouchPad General] javip:
your arguments against the camera app actually make the other posters comment relevant.

your comment is thinking from a different point of view - but the reality is the first thing thing most consumers thought about the front facing camera was "where's the camera app?"

HP should have thought of things like this. consumers are going to think if it's capable of doing it then why not?

I know most of the people on these forums are more than just average users and I'm sure one of the first things they though was "how do I take a picture with this camera?"

I'm not bashing your comments or arguments, just asking you to think what a person who just bought the tablet would be thinking about that camera.
[TouchPad General] phobos512:
I would think the first thing someone from these forums would wonder about would be "how do I get root?" Followed quickly by "how do I speed this thing up?"

Personally I have two digital cameras and a cell phone that takes relatively beautiful pictures so another camera is about the furthest thing from my mind.
[TouchPad General] leobg:
IMO it failed because it took too long to appear. WebOS is light years ahead of iOS offerings in terms of multitasking and usability. Cost is another factor - do the game console game - release the hardware for a minimal profit, if not even loss, but make sure you've got the critical mass of software to keep people on. Profit.

I wasn't going to buy Touchpad especially for $600. I wasn't even on the market for a tablet. But at $149 for the 32GB model, I decided that's a good video player for the kids in the car and bought one. Now I see what a great potential it has(had). VPN works flawlessly out of the box without rooting/hacking/anything. First mobile device I even see that does this flawlessly! Now I find many reasons a tablet would have been useful for me. Thanks to WebOS (I do not say refined Android tablet won't do).
[TouchPad General] Termic:
I think the key barrier to the Touchpad was price. Obviously, we've all been very willing to pick it up at the price of 100-150, but 500? Why wouldn't you just buy an iPad or Android tablet and get better support in the form of apps? Whether people use them or not (apparently research shows most apps are rarely used), the buzzword is "there's an app for that".

People want to see their favorite store have an app. People want to think of something an app might do and find that their iPad or Android tab can do it. With the Touchpad, you would basically be gambling that the Touchpad would be successful enough, and for $500, it was too risky.
[TouchPad General] tmspyder:
DigiCamera lite its free but you would have to actually search and install it yourself.

The camera is a1.5mp piece of crap really but hardly it nor the lack of an included app for it would constitute the validation of an actual answer to the op's question.

I myself haven't a clue as to it's"failure" except maybe pricing. It is truly, at least in my opinion, an impressive device
[TouchPad General] letom:
I've done all the preware patching and OC'ing, and to be honest a camera doesn't affect me much but your average consumer is going to see and camera and instantly think 'take pictures' as opposed to Skype. It might be a situation where they just wanted to get it out first and then bother with that stuff after. And for those of us outside the US there is no camera app.
[TouchPad General] ceyo14:
They should have done an introductory price of like 250 for a couple of month and then 300... Or just keep it there and wait to turn a profit.... Didnt sony do this with the ps3?

They actually sold it for less than what it costed, until after a couple of months... Then they started getting profits cuase it was cheaper to make...
[TouchPad General] yareally:
yep, no way is anyone, no matter how noob (not referring to anyone) is an "average user." the average user thinks root is the base of a plant :)