yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
wvga is terrible on that screen size. That's the problem...

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] oguz6578:
hmmm.. I like it
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
HTC is typically the biggest letdown in the mobile industry... I sincerely doubt that this will be any different.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
I have no doubt HTC will be outshined by the other OEMs. The Samsung phone shown by Microsoft should be a Galaxy S2 variant, Nokia's Sea-Ray should be a N9 variant and there's enough room for Dell and LG to deliver better.

HTC used to be such an innovative company, that's a shame.
[Windows Phone 7 General] weepatc:
I have no doubt that if HTC could push the boat out with WP7 devices they would. They are heavily restricted by Microsoft at the moment. The Titan is the best they can offer at this present time & I for one think it's an amazing device. Samsung & Nokia will probably not offer up anything better.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
Oh yeah? How about 32/64GB internal memory? Super Amoled? NFC? Physical keyboard? Gorilla Glass? High Resolution FF camera? HDMI out? And I'm sure I'm forgetting others. These are possible within the Microsoft limitations, it's just that HTC doesn't really care.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Strike_Eagle:
they know the pain of user for their wallet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vicious2500:
I guess a titan will go for 300-500 on contract.
[Windows Phone 7 General] wwfc:
It probably would, but the radars battery isn't removable. Sorry :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
If they knew they wouldn't price the Titan so high. What Android phone can you buy for that price? Not trying to troll but you shouldn't offer less features and keep similar pricing.

Exhibit A:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/HTC-TITAN-Free-Windows-Smartphone/dp/B005JC48OI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315400925&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-I9100-Galaxy-16GB-Smartphone/dp/B005G2EEUY/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1315400994&sr=1-4

You might as well go for this one unless you're desperate for a large screen and FF camera:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-E900-Optimus-Windows-Mobile/dp/B004O6MJ32/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315401488&sr=8-1
[Windows Phone 7 General] efjay:
Also add Xenon flash, beats audio (for the name only), different colours, kickstand. These are good devices but they could be better with just a bit more effort. Storage especially is one area that should be better, 8GB just looks pathetic.

So much for the excuse we had at launch that these were dev devices and OEM's would offer different storage options, they were just being cheap and continue to do so.

Will be interesting to see how the Radar is priced compared to this: http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/07/atandt-introduces-huawei-impulse-4g-available-september-18th-for/
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
Funny you mention that, the Android equivalent of the Titan (Runnymede 2) looks to offer Beats Audio, 768MB of RAM and a 32GB variant: http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/01/htc-runnymede-2-looks-to-lay-down-the-law-with-4-7-display-and/
[Windows Phone 7 General] dkp1977:
Maybe I'm just a plain noob, but what the heck is Beats Audio supposed to be? oO
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
It's a professional music technology that powers the Monsters Beats Headphones created by Dr Dre (some say it's overrated but that's not the point). HP struck an exclusivity deal to include it in their PCs, Laptops and the Touchpad and HTC just struck an exclusivity deal for mobiles.

You've probably seen the headphones before without knowing what they were ;).
[Windows Phone 7 General] efjay:
Saw that and is what makes me wonder why htc gimped the Titan with 16GB of storage, 32 would have put it on par and would have made for some interesting comparisons. That alone screams to me that they are not doing their best for WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
How so, it's the same pixel density as most 17/18.5" Computer Monitors.

4.5" x 4 = 18"

480 x 2 = 960

800 x 2 = 1600

17/18.5" Monitors have a 1440 x 900 Resolutions. That actually less density on the 18.5 incher & approximately the same on a 17". Now, lets not forget that most PC's have the default DPI set to 96. WP7's DPI is 262 so everything (icons/images/text/etc.) is 2.73 times sharper.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dkp1977:
Thanks for clearing this up. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
Hmm, yeah, PPI at a viewing distance of ~12inches will not make the blindest bit of difference, you can have a PPI of 300+ (iphone4) or 600+ (figment of my imagination) it will still appear the same as a HD2/7 with a PPI of 200+, that is of course if the OS has a matched DPI, as apple did with the iphone, crank up the resolution by x2, great marketing point, but they also had to crank up the DPI otherwise the text would be half as big.

In short, comparing a res of 480*800 on a 4.3-4.7inch screen to a smaller screen or higher res will make absolutely no difference at all unless you have it close up which is bad for your eyes

DPI and PPI are meaningless, look at it and see is as good as it gets as we are all different, but from a text book point of view, this screen and res will look the exact same as a HD7 or an iPhone at around ~12inches (note that im not talking about screen technology or dithering or anything else that can effect things, purely a PPI DPI / res perspective
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
There is a visible difference, but is it worth the performance impact is the real question. People need to remember that the GPU in a smartphone is nowhere near as powerful as a desktop dedicated nVidia/ATI card & even Quad Crossfire/SLI can lag FPS in high res gaming. This was a major contributing factor as to why all WinMo devices had 16 bit color screen when it did indeed support 24/32 bit true color as our current WP7 device do. There was a registry hack to enable it, but it's make no difference as the screen was 16 bit as well.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Hum, another interesting fact, the highest resolution consumer grade monitor in existence has approximately the same PPI than this 4.5" screen. The 30" with a 2560 x 1600 resolution which equates to basically a 4.3" screen with a 731.43 x 457.14 resolution or 5" with a 853.33 x 533.33 resolution. It takes some simple math to figure this out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
as i said, PPI is meaningless without viewing distance.

this screen will not be worse off than much higher resolution displays (PPI) at a distance of around 12inches

Personally i dont tend to have my phone any closer than 10-14inches away from my eyes so most of the time i physically wouldnt be able to see the pixels
[Windows Phone 7 General] halfordkesho:
Like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
If so, then why are they selling a phone that already has hardware close to 2 generations old for the same price as high end Samsung/Moto/Apple devices off-contract?

The GPU in the Titan is terrible compared to every recent iOS or Android handset. The CPU is a 500 MHz upgrade, go you!

You're basically buying a new phone for a marginally better GPU (the phone can use better for gaming/graphics), a faster CPU (which is dubious at best seeing how the OS performs on the launch phones which have "ancient" hardware in them - at the 1Ghz+ mark in smartphones GPUs have proven to bottleneck faster than CPUs.), and a bigger screen which is using 2009 hot display resolution with a terrible PPI.

That resolution is nice for looking at the UI elements but once you get into video and things like that it's a complete fail. You need qHD for screens that big.

Samsung's Galaxy S II variants face the same issue. WVGA on a 4.5" screen. Gimme a break

This phone is BARELY an upgrade, IMO. And given the internals, it's not even worth what they're selling it for. There are mid-range Andorid devices with better hardware in them for much less.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
more powerful phones have more powerful GPUs. HTC are still using old qualcom GPUs in even the Titan, so yea. It's a problem for them, but it is not a problem for the processors in phones like the Galaxy S II or even the newer TI SoCs.

The PPI of a phone and a TV or Monitor is not even comparable because the devices are used differently. Phones tend to be held MUCH closer to your face than a television or computer monitor, which is often several feet away.

It's more like giving someone an 18" monitor with 1024x768 resolution.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
One viewed from several feet away.

One viewed from several inches away.

Bad comparison. Don't know why you're even going on about this...

The Windows Phone UI is fine with that. Video, however, not so much. Microsoft has some tech to make everything look very smooth even with a rather crappy PPI (even when scaled up quite a bit, and it IS rather impressive I must say).
[Windows Phone 7 General] Strike_Eagle:
LOL... a better GPU. alright, are you gonna run Starcraft 2 on it? LOL .... :p

I don't know what you say, but current Schubert, the first generation of Windows Phone , make me very pleased with My normal day.

HD Video to Games...

I just want to say to PeeWee because if they decide to put too much stuffs on a phone, a retail price will be too high and they will hardly have anyone get it.

If you want to discuss about The power of current GPU/CPU on Smartphone, i would recommend you to read the discussion between me and Viveto at the beginning of the thread.

A more powerfull one would be nice, but they are still Useless ( if you set it in every angles of your smartphone useage) , they are nothing but give you a nice score which is posted on the list every weekend by some website about Smartphone Benchmark.

But i got your point, Titan is not a really worth for the price that HTC plan to sell. A sh!thole $800 is enough for me to pick up a ASUS G51JX ROG, enough for me to play all day long.

I am currently thinking about getting it at State if the price is not that high and Titan must be on T-Mobile or nothing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
No, you're wrong. Ask Galaxy S users, even their great GPU choked on games like Dungeon Defenders when a lot of objects were being rendered on the screen. I know, cause I've tried it. The Hummingbird GPU is better than that Adreno GPU in that phone. Also, newer SoCs offer better battery life and memory management. The GPUs aren't just a good score. There are many benefits from going with a more up to date SoC. Using old hardware negates some of the benefits of the newer hardware in the device.

It's like putting a 3GHz Pentium IV from 2005 in a new Netbook. Yes, it's faster than an Atom, but lots of things (like Battery Life, Heat Production, etc.) suffer/are exacerbated.

Since it's an SoC, that means that the issue is compounded when an OEM sticks with old hardware, especially when other things are pushing some boundaries (Screen sizes, 4G radios, etc.).

In the end, it doesn't matter.

The thing is not spec'd for the price their asking, and HTC is notorious for overpricing shoddy hardware. Their software is good, but their hardware is dubious at best.

And I'm really starting to think it was a mistake that Microsoft didn't officially support the HD2 for an upgrade to Windows Phone 7. A lot of those people got pissed and ran to Android and iOS. Negative word of mouth is a strong deterrent to adoption.

Many people will skip this phone for the same reason they skipped the HD7 when they had an HD2. It's not really much different what what the have already (all Launch WP7 devices are pretty similar for the most part). They won't pay for just more of the same.

HTC has gotten really bold with their pricing, lately. Have you seen the price of the AT&T Jetstream, or whatever it's called? Makes the XOOM launch look like the best bargain ever.

The issue with this phone is exactly what you said. They barely put anything else in it, yet the retail price is almost double. You seriously think those "overstock SoCs from last year" are worth that? Another 0.4" screen size certainly isn't.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
@N8Ter

N8ter, i agree with 99.9% of what you said, ;)

The Titan in my opinion is a good device all be it with a screen thats too large, but its not worth the money over a HD2/7.

Id rather buy another HD2/7 until we get at least S3 WP devices.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Newer hardware you are correct about, they consume less battery & are more powerful. True, WP7 doesn't need it, but could benefit from it. As for resolution, it just doesn't matter. It is just fine. Calling WVGA "crap" is just an opinion. Is higher resolutions nicer, yes. Do you absolutely need it, no. This is the point.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
I totally agree with your point and it kills me to read all these "this is my next device, it's awesome, Samsung and Nokia can't offer much more" comments. It's like people are willingly bending over and waiting to get it. HTC doesn't deserve a cent from WP7 customers, they don't care about the platform and customers shouldn't care about them. This is pretty clear when you see the Android variant of the Titan offers Beats audio, more RAM and 32GB memory (you can't tell me the MS limitations are to blame). And the Radar, are they being serious? It's a Trophy with a VGA FF camera! You would have to be pretty desperate for a FF camera to not get a cheap Trophy instead!

If Samsung, LG and Dell are following suit with barebone hardware features, Microsoft could as well buy Nokia and make their own phones. There's no point in having allies that don't properly support you, you may as well do it all alone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Which OEM cares about the platform? Nokia says it does but they don't have anything to offer yet, and seem to not have anything until next year basically.

At any rate, this shouldn't be an important consideration when assessing particular phones, IMO.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
It should be when the same phone on Android has more features for the same price or less and when this difference is not the result of the MS requirements. I wouldn't be having this debate if the phone was reasonably priced, you get less, you pay less, fair enough.

My point is, if OEMs do nothing to boost the platform, Microsoft may as well go the Apple route and produce their own phones..

That being said, I do think that Samsung cares about the platform and will offer something decent to customers. HTC has been a lost cause for a while now.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
So far the only device leaked has been a slightly redone Omnia. I don't see how this is radically different from HTC.

Now, buying mediocre overpriced devices is a bad idea, but I don't see why HTC's commitment or lack thereof should affect my buying decision. It's up to them and MS to sort out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
You're right on that (see fresh link below) but we have seen Microsoft showcasing another Samsung device that looked every bit like a Galaxy S2 so this is where I put my faith.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-SGH-i708-hits-the-FCC-a-WP-Mango-remake-of-the-Omnia-7_id21955
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Will the Titan have a SD card slot?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
Nope. Full specs on HTC's website: http://www.htc.com/www/smartphones/htc-titan/#specs
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
That can't be true, we will have to wait until someone breaks the phone down.

Another thing, no native video calling? That ruins the integration thing. OR does Live support it?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
Microsoft only bought Skype in May, I guess that will be their native video calling offering in a future update.

In the meantime Tango should do the job, it was seen on the Titan and Radar.

http://www.tango.me/
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Tango is great and all, but my point was this big integration hype.

Was this HTC decision? Because relying on a third party doesn't make any sense.

My first thought was Live messenger, or even Xbox Live.

Do they at least skip the sign up process?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
The way I see it, Microsoft will probably integrate Skype into WLM and the Xbox 360 and only then will they integrate Skype video chat natively into WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I'm going to have to disagree here. At the core level, Samsung produces some nice hardware. But they do nothing to add to the experience. No useful apps, no value-added features. The new HTC hardware may not be exciting, but the enhancements the have made to the camera app are awesome, along with the notification LED, and the "flip your phone over to silence the ringer" feature. It is missing touches like those where Samsung is a massive fail.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
What's with this new OEM obsession to put USB ports on the side or (completely insanely) on top? This is so annoying.

I wouldn't categorize this as massive fail but yes, some HTC things are nice and useful. I would miss an equalizer if I chose Samsung.

That said, I don't like either OEM really.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
The reason I call it a massive fail is because my first WP7 phone was an LG Quantum. It came with a bunch of fantastic apps that IMO significantly enhanced the early WP7 experience (including a very nice voice-to-text tool, well before Mango). In the short time that I had the phone, I quickly became addicted to those enhancements. But I couldn't resist the lure of the Focus with its SAMOLED display, so I "upgraded", and saw the wonderful array of highly useful apps that Samsung had produced (which was basically none). I think I have used two of the Samsung apps a total of three times each in the nine months that I've had the phone.

If I could go back and do it again, I would stay with the Quantum.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
I have to agree. HTC devices may not be pushing the box in hardware, but they're apps are great. I use the HUB daily & the flashlight app almost daily. I've surprised many people when it just because of the flash light. Just this morning at work for example. I start work @ 3 am, so it's still dark out. I had to get something where there are no lights nearby. A co-worker was already there trying to get supplies in the dark when I showed up. I quickly open up the flashlight app & the co-worker said thanks. When I said, "I love my phone." He turned around and was surprised the light was coming from a phone & not an led flashlight.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Strike_Eagle:
I got your point. ;)

You are right for sure, sometime i feel the price for the phone that HTC offers me is kinda BS.

And Titan right here is on the top of it.... $800? I should wait till the lates review from people here, before i dedice to pull out my wallet.

Because not only Titan, the list of Electronic Device i will buy this years contain a new Mouse for gaming and a 5.1 Headphone from Turtle Beach, all of those could easily cost over $200.

T-Mobile at States or nothing, Hope HTC can read this line.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
It's not an opinion. WVGA on 4.3" is pushing the envolop. WVGA on 4.7" (Titan or 5" (Streak) is terrible. I have Netflix. It runs on both my HD7 and my Vibrant. It looks much better on the Vibrant because it's the same resolution in 0.3 less inches of screen size (so the pixel density is better). Photos and video from online ("HD" YouTube) are the same. It goes beyond the "Colors so real, it's almost unreal." thing in the Samsung commercials. Higher pixel densities make media look better irrespective of what type of LCD panel used.

Go to a T-Mobile store and play a video on a Curve 9300 and Bold 9780. The screen resolution on the curve is half on the same tiny screen, but the bold looks 500% better. That's a bit of an exaggerated situation, but it gets the point across.

The Galaxy Note Samsung is releasing has a 5.3" in screen and the resolution is 1280*800. The resolution on a 4.3-4.7" screen should IMO be at least qHD. With all its issues, the Atrix got it right as far as screen resolution is concerned. I think the Droid Bionic is qHD as well. The resolution difference is huge for Video and Photos on the phone screen. It's not even something I'm going to try to debate any further.

Not only does it look much better, and not only is it MUCH better for media viewing and playback. It just make sense.

Every smartphone other than pre OS7 Blackberries needs to do whatever it can to get more battery life. They all have crappy battery life as far as I'm concerned. But only in 2011 are people ecstatic when their phone goes 7 hours with moderate use before it dies...
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
You're being disingenuous, though. It's not even possible to do Visual Voice Mail or a decent IM app on pre-Mango WP7. What exactly did you expect the OEMs to do. The only thing HTC really has worth mentioning is a semi-decent YouTube app with search that doesn't even work.

What exactly did you expect Samsung to Add to WP7?

Samsung is mostly a Hardware company. They have great hardware. They can't even use their own SoCs in their own Windows Phones. There really isn't much they can do. Can you really blame them from giving WP7 distant consideration when Microsoft is forcing you to fund your competitors just to build WP7 phones? They can innovate on Android. They cannot innovate on WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Sorry it is opinion. Maybe you need to look up the meaning of the word. There's no scientific fact that states this, it is just your personal opinion that the Pixel Per Inch of a WVGA 4.5" screen is not good even though it is on average with computer monitors of all sizes, including the top of the line 30" with a 2560 x 1600 resolution. If this is so true, than what about 60" 1080p TV's. They are way bigger than the typical 25-30" 1080p TV/Monitor with far lower PPI. Does it look better yes, is it needed, no. Let's also point out the meaning of the word need, means that without a specific something, it'd be a detriment to the your life. Like you need food, water, & shelter.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I don't care about pixels per inch, but there's an ocean of difference between iPhone 4's display and WVGA when you look at small text in the browser. It's perfectly readable in the former case and requires zooming in the latter.

Microsoft seems to be focusing now on low-end cheaper phones, judging by the "Tango" rumors (Nokia's influence?). So expecting any breakthrough devices in the sort term is unrealistic, IMO. It's also somewhat strange to expect OEMs invest heavily in WP7 flagships without any changes in the underlying OS that would take advantage of really advanced hardware.

What OEMs could and should do if they care to sell WP7 handsets is attractive design, decent cameras, good batteries etc., but HTC is currently pursuing the strange design pattern of making tons of similarly looking phones, so nothing's coming from this direction I guess. Samsung, on the other hand, is spread out across too many products and even OSes, so the best they can do now seems to be a Galaxy clone. Which isn't bad per se, but the "real" Galaxy has the benefit of being an iPhone lookalike, and Android suits better for this purpose.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dazza9075:
PPI is meaningless unless its closer than 8 inches from eyes, at 12 inches you physically can't tell the difference on that size of display, No one here has seen it so we can only go on text book data, so lets just forget ppi and resolutions for now
[Windows Phone 7 General] vicious2500:
If Samsung can't use their processor in WP7 why would HTC, Samsung, LG, etc be able to use a qhd? Off the top of my head the only qhd handsets HTC has is the sensation is the evo 3d one too? Also the beats headphones are packaged with the product as a bundle and not free...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
No one said that, the discussion was about whether it was worth having such a big screen with WVGA.

I have no idea what you're talking about, beats audio is supposed to be integrated to the hardware like on the HP TouchPad, PCs and Laptops. It's not about throwing headphones in the box.