yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Epic 4G General] squshy 7:
You people are absolutely ridiculous.

I've been telling you all this for weeks now, and now korey posts one of the documents I was referring to, and you STILL choose to not only waste your time by going to stock, but making it harder for us to replicate and solve issues by not handing us the phone in the original environment when you found the issue. That can make it very hard at times to properly triage and repair a phone; think of it like forensics, a crime scene is only properly diagnosed when NOTHING IS TOUCHED.

So please, save me the frustration, and simply bring this doc in with you. And if they give you a hard time, tell them to look up the OTHER doc, the one that outlines which tier rooted phones fall in to (tier 2, btw, which dictates a $35 charge if you don't have TEP and free if you do. Which, hey, guess what, is the same ****ing tier as a nonrooted phone! Who would've thunk it!)

And to whoever says educating a customer is unneccessary because obviously they're smart enough blah blah blah...you're ignorant. Very very ignorant. Because no, I didn't get that customer that came in no less than SIX times with a bricked epic from just ATTEMPTING to root, actually ROOTED it for him, and flashed godamn srf, and yet still returned A SEVENTH ****ING TIME with a bricked epic. No, that definitely didn't happen. No way. There's just no way freaking way somebody who is interested in "hacking" their phone is actually an idiot. Nope.

Ridiculous
[Epic 4G General] iSaint:
Nice post.

Also .... am i the only one cracking up everytime i see one of those

"Siemens" ad on xda ?
[Epic 4G General] ac16313:
My slider is loose, its extremely annoying is this anything fixable by them?
[Epic 4G General] squshy 7:
If they have harvested parts, yes
[Epic 4G General] squshy 7:
And allow me to reiterate, any trouble you get for a rooted device IN NO WAY IS A REFLECTION OF SPRINT. It is a reflection of the employee, and their laziness/ignorance/misconceptions. Fight them, because they are wrong.

Also, I cannot speak for 3rd party stores (your typical mall retailers). Not only do they sometimes operate under *slightly* different rules that I'm not privy to, but some of them frequently operate poorly and intentionally misguide you.

A classic and shockingly common example is sending us customers with liquid damage, telling them that we'll replace a liquid damaged phone for free if they complain enough.
[Epic 4G General] ac16313:
Would they charge? If so how much? I'm not on TEP.

Thanks.
[Epic 4G General] Whosdaman:
$35, but it is open enrollment this month so you can get tep added
[Epic 4G General] iSaint:
So basically ... i can brick my photon ... go into the sprint store and tell them i bricked it, and when they tell me it's my fault i can b**** at them .... ?
[Epic 4G General] ac16313:
Hm thanks ill see about getting it.

You just ask about open enrollment at a sprint store?
[Epic 4G General] duce102:
So I guess this doesnt apply for someone who goes into Best Buy Mobile and has Black Tie Insurance?
[Epic 4G General] HafizNafes89:
Thats whats up homie !!!
[Epic 4G General] nikon120:
If going to 100% stock doesn't alleviate the problem, then it warrants a visit to the store. Plain and simple.

Sounds like you are just burned out with your job, ha ha.

If it's a software issue with the custom rom/kernel setup, then it's up to that customer to fix their self-induced problem.
[Epic 4G General] squshy 7:
No. Because if you say you intentionally bricked it, well then that constitutes customer abuse. Which is not covered by the extended warranty side of TEP.

It's all about evidence man. As far as customer abuse is concerned, the only true, definitive physical evidence to prove such a thing is if a customer admits it.

Think of it like innocent until proven guilty. If a phone craps out due to water damage, but the customer doesn't admit it, and the only thing I can find is a tripped litmus paper, then I can't say definitively water damage caused the phone to brick unless I can find corrosion as well.

A perfect example happened earlier this week. An optimus came in where apparently the power button popple failed (which requires a exchange), but before bringing it in, the customer removed the power button and actually dug at the popple. Her saying that is evidence of customer abuse, but without it, I couldn't say that DEFINITIVELY. Her admission meant I could reject it, but I did her the one time courtesy of exchanging it and educating her on customer abuse. If she hadn't admitted it, I would have had no choice but to exchange it anyway.
[Epic 4G General] iSaint:
Damn it tried to thank you but used them all up,

but yea bro i get it now .... that's cool didn't know that 8)
[Epic 4G General] squshy 7:
I'm sorry but that's not neccessarily true. It helps us in the long run by affording us the opportunity to discover reoccurring issues (that may become known issues) that arise due to things such as 3rd party apps, faulty software, etc., that may only arise after a customer uses the device for a while. Such strange issues typically get posted in the internal forums, and eventually helps out all S&R techs eventually. Giving me a blank slate robs me of that.

And I actually absolutely love my job :) all the ignorant people aside, I'm immersed in technology that I'm very passionate about, and there are indeed times I enjoy staying past my shift off the clock to solve a tough problem. No lie.
[Epic 4G General] DroidApprentice:
Amazing. You stop just short (thanks for that much I guess) of calling me something insulting because I have the audacity to suggest that people should be responsible enough to save very frustrated and underpaid people from the agony of servicing their own preventable technical foulups.

Claiming that someone who has, for example, a blown speaker, failed 4G radio, or other hardware issue would be better off going in with a phone running something other than stock because Sprint tech support actually enjoys playing CSI: Smartphone lab? Or that customers are supposed to wave internal documents smugly and argue with people making not much more than minimum wage? Am I misinterpreting you here? Sounds like a sure recipe for success.

If I worked for Sprint I'd pray other customers didn't follow your advice. I would like to be able to cleanly exchange a problem phone with a non-problem phone, especially not getting involved in any software-area mods any user has done to their handset if at all possible. I was advocating root users NOT be idiots. That's the entire point. To save the customer AND the company unnecessary frustration.

I appreciate your thorough hard work in the example you cited but expecting most employees and customers to behave the same way only sounds like it's going to disappoint you.
[Epic 4G General] duce102:
Id love to have a job at Sprint or Best Buy Mobile
[Epic 4G General] squshy 7:
I think you misunderstand me. I was just pointing out that it's wrong to assume educating a rooted customer is unneccessary. Obviously I'm not going to educate every rooted customer as most ARE informed. But I'm a good enough judge of character to determine who's not very tech savvy and is probably getting their info not from a reliable source (such as xda) but from somewhere else.
[Epic 4G General] jdelano:
I like to get my phones from bestbuy, its a couple dollars more a month for their plan but they replace your phone no matter what happens to it. I don't mind paying a few bucks more for an insurance plan for my phone, this way if I do brick it then I've planned for it.
[Epic 4G General] DroidApprentice:
Thank you for helping clear this up and informing us from an insider's view. But not 'letting the perfect be the enemy of the good' is maybe the way to go. I used to do CS myself (technology, but not cell phones). Putting education of customers as a priority in my experience did nothing 80% of the time but drive them, management and other workers insane.
[Epic 4G General] DroidApprentice:
No harm, no foul. You're obviously very smart and dedicated. It's only life-changing technology, no big deal. ;-)
[Epic 4G General] malcolmXman:
Thanks for posting this Korey.
[Epic 4G General] Whosdaman:
You're welcome. Just take this with you to sprint and you'll be fine.

Just don't say where got this from or I won't help anyone ever again.
[Epic 4G General] Jorge330823:
To the people saying what Mr. Korey did was wrong I would have to disagree. I am very new to rooting and flashing and knowing this information makes me more comfortable trying roms and not freaking out completely over the $400 paper weight. I would like to say thanks to you Mr. Korey. Sprint needs more reps like you.
[Epic 4G General] musclehead84:
Awesome post Korey and also thanks squashy for the insiders advice.

"The greatest respect you can earn is self respect" Louie Simmons
[Epic 4G General] Whosdaman:
No problem. I do what I can...and can't lol
[Epic 4G General] kenrico:
Yeah , am beginning to hate the stores. Designed to make it quick and easy if upgrading or buying new device or accessories . As soon as you are identified as not doing these things today - low prority, rudeness and brush off , any excuse to get you out .

Went in twice to PAY a bill - both times 30- 45 minutes wait time and then told I should pay online or through kiosk .

Have had a loose slider for a year now, will odin back to stock EC05 before showing up . Even with that the first question will be do you have Insurance and I will say , no I don't have insurance for a loose slider and they will say it isn't a mfg defect it is an adjustment and have I tried the mfg already ? Heavy sigh
[Epic 4G General] Whosdaman:
Add TEP. It is open enrollment for another month!

SO anyone have any good stories yet about going to the Sprint stores and showing them who is boss?!?!? :)
[Epic 4G General] malcolmXman:
Not yet, but I have 2 hard copies, and a copy on my phone lol...
[Epic 4G General] squshy 7:
That's just not true? We will fix damn near anything for a cool $35. Hell, we'll even exchange for that price if it's not fixable and not DBR. You can't tell me that's not a good deal. Also considering we're the only carrier with true service and repair.

Before I started working for sprint, I didn't realize we fixed ALL phones, not just ones with TEP. If you had told me back then that sprint performed any type of repair or exchange (excluding liquid, accidental, and customer abuse damage of course) for $35, I would've been shocked and told you you're crazy. It really is an awesome deal.

If you don't think so, just compare to the price of computer repair. Then get back to me.
[Epic 4G General] abhaxus:
FYI, I just started at a corporate retail store, and most of the employees here are rooted. Including the store manager. I'm the only one that has a heavily themed phone though. And a couple of them have a misconception of what rooting your phone can possibly damage. We aren't a service store though.
[Epic 4G General] BeerChameleon:
LOL Thats what i read from it...

I like how it says:

"Since there is know way of knowing if a customer rooted there device"

"then educate them on the dangerous of root "

LMAO!!!!
[Epic 4G General] BeerChameleon:
I understand what your saying but, ive only one time came in the store with a bricked a true bricked epic and that was from a bonsai beta rom and i wouldnt take it in the store ever if i couldn't fix it myself.. the only time i have taken my dads phone in was not because he was having issues with software it was that his speaker blown so "duh" put it to stock first...

Most of this community is smart enough to fix our own problems with soft bricking,force closes, "Are you feeling lucky" ,etc. If you dont know how to recover a "soft brick" or don't know how certain aspects of root stuff then u shouldnt root in the first place... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
[Epic 4G General] Shinydude100:
The average cellphone user don't all know how to root anyway, and those of us that are rooted know how to unroot. Lol
[Epic 4G General] EddyBalls:
"Since there is currently no way of proving that a device has been rooted by a customer, suspected rooted devices should be handled as follows:"

Because they totally don't know what CWM is or how to boot into CWM...
[Epic 4G General] zanderman112:
I know right?

Posted by Mr. Z's Epic 4G.
[Epic 4G General] pvtjoker42:
It's good to know that they shouldn't be able to deny service just because we've decided to use our phones to our own needs and not just dealt with the crap stock software. Thanks for the info Korey!
[Epic 4G General] siirus09:
Going along with what was said, there are 3 types of people in these rooting forums. The Devs, those that know how to root AND fix simple problems on their own most of the time and continue to learn, and those who only follow the instructions to the letter but unless there is a manual they wouldn't know how to turn their phone on. The third being the majority. Just because you know how to root DOESN'T mean you know anything.

Sent from my Epic 4G w/ SyndicateRom Frozen 1.1.1, Genocide 1.1 @ 1.2 GHz (EE03 modem)!
[Epic 4G General] siirus09:
Even if you are going in to pay, you are taking up their and your time with something so frivolous. Why exactly don't you pay at a kiosk, or online, or through your phone (isn't accessibility and convinience part of the reason you got a smart phone)?

Sent from my Epic 4G w/ SyndicateRom Frozen 1.1.1, Genocide 1.1 @ 1.2 GHz (EE03 modem)!
[Epic 4G General] Khidr:
I realize this is an old thread - is this document still the case? Went into two stores today to try to get a repair on my epic's usb port, which is borked (still attached to the board per the first store) they saw the phone was rooted when they put in a fresh battery, both stores told me no service, and no tep for me.

I would be happy to flash back to stock, but... the usb port is, as I mentioned borked, so I can't charge or odin.

Just wondering if there's been an update to the policy, Thanks.
[Epic 4G General] k0nane:
Take it to a non-corporate store. My local authorized retailer is awesome and DGASF about rooted anything.

But if your port is broken, you're going to be sent to Asurion anyway.
[Epic 4G General] BeerChameleon:
If the noted that u were rooted on your account u might be out of luck, but u could always call the corp number (*2) and tell them ur usb is borked or drop in pool or brick it then get a refurbished one to replace it, those are my suggestions
[Epic 4G General] shane6374:
Don't know if this is of any help, but this story was on the ACS home page earlier today.

http://www.acsyndicate.net/sprints-rooting-policy-put-to-the-test/
[Epic 4G General] Khidr:
Thanks all. After reading a little more on sprint's policies, I put a claim through asurion online (honest about the problem, and the fact that sprint would not do repair) claim was put right through.

Just didn't seem like fighting them when the end result just as easily could've been "it's accidental damage, we won't fix it anyway."

For what it's worth - the second store was non-corporate, and threw out the "we like to have our jobs so we can't help you" line. They've always been awesome in the past, including with rooted devices which is why I was asking if there had been a sea change.

Thanks again.
[Epic 4G General] DCRocks:
I just read this whole thread, even the acs article and....

There is STILL no way i would bring in a rooted device if I had a choice.

While it seems you can get by with a rooted phone, it also seems you have to "fight" for it.

IMO, before anyone takes a phone in, it should be returned to stock and retested.

If it is a software issue that does not exist when you are stock, you will get FAR better help from your fav android board, than the store.

And if it is a hardware issue that only comes out in a mod, (seen this with voodoo sound) I would simply hard brick the device and get a new one.

I feel this way also, partly because I don't have hours to spend at a store, heck for 3 hours of my "time" I would have lost as much money as it would cost to buy a new Epic off ebay

It is awesome to see this info, but IMO, the hassle is just not worth it, even if you get the help you want in the end.

This may not hold for everyone, but for me, given how easy it is to root and unroot, its just not worth it if I have a choice.

Heh, also, with the concern over the hboot of HTCs, it makes me glad, once again, that I choose a samsung device
[Epic 4G General] RottingOgre:
This is my first post ever but what better way to start than helping out a fellow Epic4G-er!

Anyways, who said you needed Odin to return to stock? See DRockstar's thread about returning to a completely stock ROM, kernel, and even recovery.

[ROM][STOCK]ReRFS Format Stock ROM EC05 v1.01 w/ CWM3.1.0.1

Good luck!
[Epic 4G General] MДЯCЦSДИT:
That will brick you if on MTD
[Epic 4G General] RottingOgre:
Good catch marcusant. I had forgotten about that and assumed BML only.

However, maybe bricking the phone just might be what's called for here! :D
[Epic 4G General] Zeinzu:
That's insurance fraud.
[Epic 4G General] KennyG123:
No that would be warranty fraud. You cannot fraud the insurance since it carries a $100 deductible and covers you if lost, stolen, damaged intentional or accidentally.
[Epic 4G General] Zeinzu:
My bad. Still fraud though.
[Epic 4G General] MДЯCЦSДИT:
Edit: misread
[Epic 4G General] KennyG123:
Yes. So please no more talk of intentionally bricking. Thank you.

FNM
[Epic 4G General] Drjesus616:
while im not active in this phones community ( or even my current phones community - im kind of a lurker ) ... i do work at an indirect service center, and i will replace known rooted phones if its a hardware issue ... however if it is suspected to be software related, i will advise the customer to return it completely to stock and try again ... and i STRONGLY suggest to the customer to have insurance or esrp before trying anything ... and if after going back to stock, you are still having issues, i will order an exchange for you ...

i have absolutely no qualms about following the sprint service bulletin to the T ... except the part about noting the suspected root ... youre a grown up, you choose to do this to your phone, im not going to tattle on you

and no, i wont tell you what store i work at ... but i will tell you, if you happen to find my store, i will help you out the best i can ... ;)
[Epic 4G General] b16flybye:
Greeat Jesus.......what's yer point?
[Epic 4G General] flastnoles11:
Guy at the store by where I live is the same way... his phone is rooted and last I seen (its been awhile since I've been there) he was running cm7... most really don't care and will still try to help because a lot of them do the same as us...
[Epic 4G General] Purponic:
You can usually pick out the service people that have their phones rooted. From my experiences stay away from the females, 95% of the time they're clueless about how the network and phones work. Remember back in the day when just about every cell phone store knew all the ins and outs? Those days are long gone...
[Epic 4G General] notsosmrtgeek:
There is was 2 techs at. My store one transfered. But. He told me pretty much the same thing. That and don't be rude. He told me about someone with a rooted. With that was tring to deny that it was rooted and the guy got pissy with the tech. Don't know why you would do that. When the tech was willing to help. But
[Epic 4G General] Zeinzu:
Reading this hurt my eyes and gave me a headache.
[Epic 4G General] Fire n mage:
Re: Sprint's Policy on Handling Rooted Devices

While, I Can't help but point out your comment as rather sexist, however true it may be, maybe it just doesn't interest them. Maybe they just need a job and have no passion for the business or technology itself. I only say this because we do have female members on the forums and they might be offended by your comment.
[Epic 4G General] Purponic:
You don't need to have a passion for it, but you should be required to understand the basics if you're gonna be in a position of customer service. I get people need jobs, but just because you like to talk on phones doesn't mean it's a good fit for you. I got epoxy, a dremel, and some enamel paint, but I'm not gonna go get a job as a nail technician.
[Epic 4G General] sonarchist:
Obviously, w/ generalizations there's always the exception to the targeted object bias, as was my experience during my very last visit to the Sprint store: was attended to by a very technically capable gal who made sure to get my device -my other one, not my Epic- dealt w/ in an expedient + professional manner........there was a blizzard brewing + she made sure to take care of things within the tight time-scenario, allowing me to make a break for it w/ split second timing.............come to think of it, this is easily among my few single good memories of dealing w/the Sprint store ever! ha ha........just goes to show you ;)

..........sent from today's android 4.0.4
[Epic 4G General] Whosdaman:
Here is the latest M&P document for handling rooted device. See attached. Also, it is the responsibility of the technician to restore the device to stock if the device is suspected of being rooted and that is suspected to be causing the problem.

I have updated the OP to reflect the update
[Epic 4G General] jeffro18:
I can think of 3 specific times in my life that an employee actually helped me with my issues or questions on tech. All 3 times it was a woman. One at circuit city, one at best buy, and one at comcast. Usually people give me that blank stare and try to run when I start spewing specific technical jargon that I am looking for. There are under qualified people of every race and gender out there...

Edit: just remebered a 4th time too. I just had to deal with replacing the lady's replacement epic due to an intermittent hardware issue with her sd slot. I hung up on the first guy I talked to that insisted I needed to factory reset with him on the phone. Called back a few hours later and talked to a woman that flew through the process without hassle.
[Epic 4G General] jcamacho02:
And I used my insurance I bricked mine a while ago cause they told me they could not do anything
[Epic 4G General] joemossjr:
glad they dont just void the warrenty anymore
[Epic 4G General] squshy 7:
Well bricks are not covered, that would qualify it as being Damaged Beyond Economical Repair, similar to if you dropped your phone in water.
[Epic 4G General] flastnoles11:
If you play stupid it is... know a few people who played stupid after a brick and they replaced their phone...
[Epic 4G General] orlzzt:
Or say its the USB port and the battery won't charge anymore. Also, won't the pinhole button under the camera bezel restore the device from a hard brick?
[Epic 4G General] flastnoles11:
That's a myth... there is no button... not even a spot for a button... when you upgrade your phone, take it completely apart and you'll see what I'm saying... I've taken quite a few epics apart and there is no button there...
[Epic 4G General] orlzzt:
Did you ask MysteryEmotionz? He was the finder, or so I was led to believe.

Most of the posts regarding the return policy have agreed that Sprint is the only carrier that really doesn't care if you bring back a rooted device. I always have unrooted mine anyway, just to be on the safe side.
[Epic 4G General] squshy 7:
Lolz, we're just going to put in a charged battery...
[Epic 4G General] k0nane:
The Magic Button™ was one of the best, most amusing myths ever brought to the Epic forums. But that's all it is. A myth.

I say again, non-corporate stores can provide GREAT service and do not care about root. The top repair guy at my local one built his Epic from spare parts, for what it's worth. So if you have any trouble at a corporate store, go to a third party!