yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
It's not being a yes man its called common sense. People such as yourself seem to forget that I'm not a robot locked in the closet until my next shift, I do have a mind of my own and I am a consumer like you, however I find it dumb if a company clearly sends you a letter with their charges and what they can be that people would try to fight it when the company changes them. I, like many others, read what I sign and don't try to weasel myself out of contracts over a few cents.

And I'm sure you've referred more people than I sign up, im in the Cancellations department. I'm also sure I've kept more people from leaving than you've thought you could refer.
[EVO 4G General] tim.tahtinen:
I realize you fully believe that the Administrative Charge change is well within Sprint's rights; I simply disagree with you, but that's neither here nor there. We'll just have to agree to disagree, and people can take their own chances.

However,

do you disagree that the changes to the arbitration clause are material?

To me, that was the far more critical change, as it sure seemed like, given the customer service I was receiving, that arbitration might have been in my future.

I, personally, hated to leave Sprint because of their speeds, but their response to my issues was far from acceptable to me. I realize I'll probably get the same treatment on other carriers, but I felt like I needed to make a stand, and I did.

EDIT: Also, to anyone giving bad feedback to reps that refuse to waive the ETF: please understand that most workplaces follow the grievance principle of "obey now, grieve later". That means that, while a rep can disagree with a superior's order, if the superior does not waiver, the rep must still comply with that order and file a formal grievance after the fact.

If the rep refuses to follow this principle, they can be terminated at their next review or by an arbitration board for their insubordination. In most cases, a rep will refuse to help you simply because it is a matter of helping you or losing their job by failing to follow a direct instruction from Corporate.

So, please, do not take this out on the reps that are doing what they are told; if you get all the way up the chain, and you're still not being helped, hang up and call in again. Be persistent, and file your own complaint with Sprint over the issue, but don't take it out on the minimum-wage call center workers doing their jobs.
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
Most corporate call centers pay a lot more than you think. Minimum wage is far from the truth. Try 40K+ a year for a starting rep with no experience. Third party centers are garbage though 25K or so.
[EVO 4G General] tim.tahtinen:
Thank you for contesting a very minimal part of my overall post, rather than answering the question I posited to you. ;) I do appreciate the clarification, though. I hate getting details wrong, however minimal.
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
I have no comment in regards to JAMS.
[EVO 4G General] tim.tahtinen:
Fair enough.
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
Simply because I know of no such changes but those that have been spread on these boards.
[EVO 4G General] dynamicpda:
when to cancel and port out?

So we have 30 days from 9/9 to cite the change in arbitration to cancel our contracts. Say I wait until 10/1 and my billing cycle starts on the 23rd. Does that mean I have until 10/23 to port out?

I'm trying to stretch out the dates to get the most time to see what phones emerge on Sprint or the other networks.
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
You simply have 30 days from the 9th.
[EVO 4G General] helpmeplis:
I have talked to 30+ sprint persons and none of them knows shot about this.

Just one knew and said i was right and she would call me back, im still waiting.

I give 20 for a couple of beers for anyone who can do this for me :)
[EVO 4G General] sirwhistle:
yes u can

just took one of my lines out and no etf, guys be carefull in here you have a lot of sprint employees in here telling you that you cant when in fact you could...and yes you have untill 10-9 to do this so im waiting till the 8 for my other 4 lines......
[EVO 4G General] One4mNoWhere:
I don't know why they mostly do that "lie to customers", isn't there some law to prevent them from lying lol. I was going to be waive with my 5 lines and they lady said she will call me back, I waited no call. I called back and another rep is saying there was nothing on the account so therefore he couldn't do anything. It's bs when you call and one rep tells you this and you call back few hours and the story changes :mad:.
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
You couldn't be more wrong
[EVO 4G General] One4mNoWhere:
My thing is if sprint some how said the administration fee can not qualify a customer to be opt out of the contract then i would understand but it said "CHANGE" and the amount of the admin fee now was not what we were paying previously, thats my take
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
Huh?

The contract [even previous to 9/9] clearly stated that all surcharges are subject to change.

[In other words, they can change them at any time without a violation of the contract]

More information below:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17440048&postcount=316
[EVO 4G General] austin420:
I believe your misinterpreting, sir. It says they have the right to change them, and you have the right to cancel.
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
They say:

Doesn't say anything about the right to cancel.
[EVO 4G General] helpmeplis:
yes, a couple lines below&above that.
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
Don't even care lol reps will always do their jobs wrong and people will always get away with stuff
[EVO 4G General] austin420:
what do you think "in a matter consistent with this agreement means"?

the ageement says if they change the contract, you have the right to terminate it. i dont see how this can be interpreted in any other way.
[EVO 4G General] u921333:
So my question to the people saying this isnt a reason to be able to get out of contract.... What exactly is a reason? I see people saying well they put in the contract they can change anything. What would stop them to say putting in on top of JAMS as a arbitrator during such arbitration we will collect 50 dollars an hour to review the case?

I know that is extreme but the point is a contract is a set document if it is to be changed the contract before is null and void. If the items that was changed are not of any importance then why would sprint make the change?
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
What people are failing to acknowledge is that the change was informed to them when services were started. Very clearly it stated that their administrative charges are between .50 and 1.99 and could be changed at anytime.

JAMS as a third party does not affect your contract.
[EVO 4G General] u921333:
How does JAMS have nothing to do with your contract? If you have a problem with a third party and part of the new change says that if u have a problem u need to deal with them u should have a right to say no I never want to deal with them again. Seems you are not getting that part. The way I look at it if sprint makes changes to something I agree to and in anyway makes it less favorable to me then its adverse material change.

Now to be honest I'm just playing devils advocate but i really do believe that at least the JAMS part to the right person could be a huge deal and if they would have had that clause in before they was a customer who is to say they wouldn't be a Verizon customer instead. I know there is a couple companys I hate enough not to have any ties too.
[EVO 4G General] tim.tahtinen:
At this point, I'm not sure if I would put any weight behind anything a Sprint rep tells me, because it's quite obvious that Sprint's desperately trying to stay afloat and will do anything and everything (including twisting their contract terms) to keep customers.

The experience that these customers are getting over these contract changes, plus the changes to Sprint Premier, will sour their opinion of customer care. I don't care if the changes are material anymore; this is lousy support, period.
[EVO 4G General] SoaringSpoon:
This might be a foolish question but just to clarify we have 30 days from 9/9/11 to terminate service with no etf. And if we do it after our next billing cycle we will have one more month on sprint? With no premiere I have no reason to stay.
[EVO 4G General] allpapajohn:
Just thought I would revisit this thread. Seems that Sprint is getting rid of SP so screw you guys I still turned out to be an evil genius. I got off my old and into a new and am way ahead and never behind on this one. See I got to buy 2 photons and an Evo shift with Best Buy buy back program and yada yada for $300 out the door. My bill went up a tiny bit cause I had to add on premium data on 2 lines but my Gold status is not an issue.
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
Good job you contributed to the reason companies heighten prices :)
[EVO 4G General] wingzing85:
So those of you who are thinking of using this to leave Sprint remember this, unlimited data, those of you who are talking about the data speeds I feel you so check this article out they are upgrading to ev-do rev b in early October which is suppose to get anywhere between 4-10Mbps down and around 3-8 up.

I would recommend using this to get out of your contract and upgrade to the EVO 3D or Epic Touch 4G because their newer radios are suppose to let them use the new tech better than the older phones.
[EVO 4G General] rileyd5:
thanks for posting this. If this is really the case I'm staying. If not, Verizon is getting my 2 lines. period.
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
It's going to take longer than October for this to be nation wide.

Probably more like the end of 2013.

Apparently they're launching 8 cities by the end of 2011 though.
[EVO 4G General] One4mNoWhere:
question

If I have 5 lines, one get cancel but after a day or so that line gets registered with a new name, can the other 4 lines that r active be moved to the single line and make a family plan?
[EVO 4G General] iwin2000:
Does anyone know if I can cancel without ETF, then create a new 2 year contract as a 'new user' to get a discount on a new phone?
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
And with that I sincerely hope no one wonders why companies are cutting back on benefits and are increasing costs.
[EVO 4G General] u921333:
And I Sincerely hope that you relize this is a loop hole and that companys such as sprint use loop holes all the time that effect us. You really think its fair that at the end of the year I pay more taxes then say GE?

Its a large circle and if you dont play the game you get left behind. I gaurentee if Verizon had a loop hole where the roaming charges they charge sprint would be waived in a certain circumstance Dan hesse would be all over it and on the flip side we would get zero of the windfall.
[EVO 4G General] Jfree3000:
Just got off the phone with Sprint about upgrades and etc blah blah. If you cancel the line ETF or not, you have to wait 45 days to be considered a new customer and then they still give you a temporary number until they port over the old number.

They do 45 days because most companies, if they even do it, only give you a 30 day window to return so you will just be screwed by another carrier unless you do boost mobile or something to that nature. And Sprint is cutting their returns down to 15 days anyways so its just another pain in the ass to deal with.

Its just a pain to upgrade this and that by doing this and that, after that phone call with Sprint I am just going to save my money up for a bit and buy a phone without extending my contract. It may be more expensive but this upgrade stuff is starting to be a real headache and the way phones are rolling out, waiting two years for an upgrade is like waiting 5 years in the tech world (not really maybe? lol)

Looking at the Epic Touch and like Matty said, he would just wait a few months and get it at a cheaper price. I know a lot of people can't just afford to buy a phone off contract but I see why people do it now, no tie downs and hassles and if the iphone comes to Sprint then I am positive my wife will want one.............................:(
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
Blah blah blah.

You're using how the tax system is setup by your government as an excuse to defraud a company?

Yeah, I believe that. I really do.

Do you know what is one of the most expensive aspects of this business for carriers?

Guess...

Yup, subsidizing phones.

Now, you can sit here and justify fraud all day long.

But at the end of the day its still fraud.

Abuse of the system causes the treatment you see from the carriers.

Look at the Evo root fiasco.

People kept trying to scam getting a Nexus S or Evo shift for free because they could not root their Evo after 2.3.3. and now

you can't get a different phone even if you have a legitimate excuse

.

This idea that every company is out to scam you so you should scam them first is....sad.

You guys can sit here all day long and say "its not that big of a deal, only a few abuse the system"...but that's not even close to the truth.

Stop acting like assholes and maybe carriers will stop treating us like assholes.

As usual, the few ruin it for the many.

Soon enough mister "I TETHER 100GB JUST TO SAY I DID" is going to ruin unlimited data for us all too.

Thank you, very much.
[EVO 4G General] hoshmosh:
Hi, I'm one of the few who wishes to terminate with sprint, however they said that this was not possible. I stated that with the contract change I would be obligated to opt-ed out of the ETF.

However, they stated this was only for new customers that the fee was being applied to, and not current contract holders. Are they correct? Or do i still continue .

I want to opt out because of the fee's I'm paying, and the fees I would pay with another carrier far outweighs sprints at this moment.
[EVO 4G General] hoshmosh:
Does this still work, or was it just an error that some sprint reps did the ETF?
[EVO 4G General] hoshmosh:
Any replies ^^^^????
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
No contracts should have been waived.
[EVO 4G General] tim.tahtinen:
Just because you keep on saying it doesn't make it true.
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it any less true.
[EVO 4G General] Landara:
Contracts weren't waived, ETFs were. And yes, they actually were. But only if you cancelled.
[EVO 4G General] rsch1794:
Can someone please pm me what to tell Sprint they are giving me problems with canceling my service.
[EVO 4G General] hoshmosh:
^ This, I want to be able to cancel as well, so I want to use this to my advantage. If not can I use the roaming hack onto the verizon network to get terminated?

---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------

Tried it, was going well then the lady told me I wouldn't be able too after the 9th...
[EVO 4G General] tim.tahtinen:
Okay, now this is getting ridiculous.

It appears that Sprint's updated their online Terms and Conditions again, this time WITHOUT NOTICE, to add in the "up to 1.99/month" administrative charge clause.

Here's a link to the Google cache of the page (as of September 14th), and here's a link to the page today.

I think it's safe to say that any possibility of Sprint playing by the rules here has gone out the window.

If you still want to fight the changes to the Terms and Conditions, I wish you the best of luck; however, I fear that it will take legal action at this point to get results.
[EVO 4G General] jietzer:
ive never seen data fix while browsing roms , ill check it out tho for sure thanks for the heads up on that. I can never seem to stay connected to 4g more then 30 seconds ( i live in seattle wa ) but ill go give that datafix a shot. thx again
[EVO 4G General] AZ1412:
Here is what I used. This was 3 months ago so some things might be out of date.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=966418 for tethering

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=696073. for 3G

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=715485

Most important. The new WiMax made my internet slower, im running the following...

NV 1.77_003

PRI 1.90_003

Radio 2.15.00.04.08

WiMax 27925
[EVO 4G General] dirkyd3rk:
Count me in, Im cancelling and going to tmobile for the sensation. yay
[EVO 4G General] Koont:
Ex Sprint employee here. Anytime they change something you have the option to cancel due a change in the contract. Even $.50.
[EVO 4G General] austin420:
Can you go post that in the epic version of this thread? Theys talking mad ****!
[EVO 4G General] AZ1412:
What's the point in transferring if you're throttled at 2 Gb?

Sent from my EVO...championship!
[EVO 4G General] mustangboy88:
According to T&C you have to cancel your service within 30 days of the change. Its under the "Our right to change the agreement & your related rights."

Typed on my CyanoSavaged SuperEvo.
[EVO 4G General] mmegalodon:
Because many find themselves around WiFi most of the time? I rarely tether anymore, not that it was ever that much of use, and I've gotten used to not going out of my way for useless data consumption. Which in turn may be different if Sprint service wasn't so effing poor. Maybe it's more of an adaption thing.

More I think about it, and assess my (personal) usage, I start to think the unlimited data is more of a talking point than anything. What good is unlimited when you have terribly horrendous and extremely poor speeds? I love Sprint and their commitment to unlimited data ... but at times I feel like its not even relevant.
[EVO 4G General] potna:
so did this change in contract change for everyone? or just some of us. i would love to get out of my contract, but i don't want to change carriers, i have always hated these contracts, but i love the cool phones so i usually sign these agreements.
[EVO 4G General] jonathan413:
i agree i rarely go over 2gb of data and dont tether either so the unlimited data is more of a talking point and thier speeds are so horribly bad i couldnt even pass 2gb of data if i wanted( I am in no way bashing sprint just giving my opinion).
[EVO 4G General] jonathan413:
and your ok with slow unlimited internet?? cause I for one along with other members arent.
[EVO 4G General] AZ1412:
I don't understand what you guys are *****ing about. You can't whine about slow download speeds and be under 2 gb/month

Sent from my EVO...championship!
[EVO 4G General] ckoadiyn:
Agreed if u use so little bandwidth why complain
[EVO 4G General] Koont:
@austn420. I got you pimpin. They are talking crazy over there. LOL.
[EVO 4G General] Khilbron:
I'm very happy with sprint service in the franklin tn area. At my house I get 7-8m on 4g and 600-700k on 3g. So I wont be leaving them anytime soon.
[EVO 4G General] mmegalodon:
The point is that more data would be used if I had a reason to actually use the mobile data. But with the terrible network I have drastically changed my mobile habits. Someone asked a question and I shared my personal view on the matter.

No one was really *****ing. Just pointing out the obvious. You have terribly slow speeds and after a while you don't even bother. If I had consistently faster data, hell even 1.5-2 (which I used to get), I'd use more data. It isnt so much about insanely fast speeds, like 4G, just consistent coverage. My data plunge over the months has been directly related to Sprint's network.

Guy asked a question, I shared my view. Someone agreed. It actually makes sense too.
[EVO 4G General] tgrgrd00:
It does. How someone can't understand that data speeds are soooo slow that you don't use much data because it is frustrating to just open the browser is beyond me.

I mean really? You think if data speeds were great that people wouldn't use more data? It's not that hard to understand or comprehend.

I have a very slow data problem at my house and if it wasn't for wifi I would have ditched sprint a long time ago. I contancted sprint about the problem and was told they looked in to it and everything was working as it should.

I may use this change to get out of 5 contracts on a family plan.
[EVO 4G General] uniquenameevo:
I used to use about 3 gigs a month on a light month of just 3g. It crept lower and lower as I got frustrated waiting. The combo of that and me getting a few tablets has made the evo more of a text only phone for me. My evo uses more data from my overdrive on 4g than it's own radio now.

If I wasn't in a spot with four phones on the plan, I might switch. The hassle factor (same reason I got an overdrive instead of using the tether) isn't worth the savings to me.
[EVO 4G General] packattack12:
so did anyone actually get out for this??
[EVO 4G General] gpz1100:
So if you were a sprint subscriber prior to the 9/14, the old terms should apply, and thus if you want out, they should let you cancel the contract and waive etf.

I was offered a $50 credit. Enough to cover it for 2 years, and what i've paid on the airave in admin fees (which should of been entirely free).

If they raise the admin fee to $2.00/line, that is over $1.99/line, then you have just cause to demand waiving of etf again.
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
It was on the welcome letter, all customers have been informed of this since day one. Them adding it there makes no difference. Again, this was never an ETF waivable event just a lot of reps not doing their jobs.
[EVO 4G General] lemack:
Gentlemen,

I have a copy of the sprint contract that I printed out on september 9th 2011. The famous terms and conditions that sprint had before they changed the contract. I will give anyone a copy if they so desire. I will call Sprint and let them know this and see what they say now. I will keep you guys posted of how this turns out.

---------- Post added at 05:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 AM ----------

As a matter of fact I have the T&C that I printed on 8/17/2011 all 18 pages of it. any one can have a cpoy but you need to privately message and have a fax number ready. We will win this one.
[EVO 4G General] dynamicpda:
I'm still debating my options. I wouldn't mind moving to T-Mobile or Verizon for the network but I would stay with Sprint with a new phone. I would sue them in small claims court if they didn't honor the contract
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
Wow people don't seem to realize that they all got a copy of this when they signed up. Just goes to show how uninformed and misguided consumers are

This is on your welcome letter to Sprint.
[EVO 4G General] lemack:
Wow people don't seem to realize that they all got a copy of this when they signed up. Just goes to show how uninformed and misguided consumers are

This is on your welcome letter to Sprint.

A welcome letter is not a contract, my copy and this new internet copy side by side will be all I need anywhere to prove a Material Change. I dont know the level of your legal education but you need to stop making crazy statements.

---------- Post added at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

That is why people dont sign welcome letters and we are not discussing a welcome package we are discussing a contract that was broken.
[EVO 4G General] austin420:
That welcome letter is all cropped to just that little bit of text so you can't see the date on it. They put a revision date on all printed materials. They didn't put this supposed 1.99 cap on the fee till close to the end of summer right before they announced the contract change. The previous version of the welcome letter did not list a 1.99 cap. Dirtyshroomz is trying to mislead everyone with selective truth.
[EVO 4G General] DirtyShroomz:
Lol I give up. Good luck guys.
[EVO 4G General] josh995:
Wait wait wait...

A "welcome letter?" This "up to $1.99" charge is explained in a welcome letter? Like, as in AFTER you sign the contract, you get a welcome letter via mail or email? Is it in the actual contract that you sign?
[EVO 4G General] MonitorMonkey:
I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like the fact that it is NOW in the contract, yet was not as of 9/13/2011 is proof enough that it was never a binding statement, and now that it is - that is a material change to the contract...I'm not wanting to terminate, but this is an interesting discussion none the less.

Keep in mind, they quickly amended the contract / ToS after the initally 9/9/2011 change... smells fishy to me.