yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
That brings the whole debate to what I was saying on the first page. If you need a manual or numerous explanations to use the phone properly then it's not as intuitive as we may think. It is at first for sure but then you can spend ages trying to work out things that should be simple.

As an Editor she hasn't done a complete job but as an average user she voices some valid complaints.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
I agree, she brought up some valid complaints, but giving false statements whether she knew better or not is not cool. Now this review was posted on CNET so is viewed as a professional review. Not the review of an average user. If that was what she was trying to do, it should have been posted on a personal blog, not on CNET. I'm not debating the valid complaints or her opinion. I'm against the false statements she made & the fact that they were posted on CNET under the guise of an average user.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yes but without access to all of your content from SkyDrive including pics, videos or music, or I am wrong here?
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
I don't think Skydrive itself officially supports multimedia, I may be wrong.

EDIT: Nevermind, it does support music. I could of swore I tried before & it wouldn't accept it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I'm talking about single app access to all of the files.

You know, like a file manager seeing all the content you can browse, edit, delete and upload/download.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Yes, I understand what you're saying & yes can see why some may like that. My main point is she states there's no Skydrive access outside of IE while there is in both the Pictures & Office Hubs. This is how MS envisions WP7. To use HUB's not redundant apps that do the same thing. Yes, having choices is better, which it's nice someone made an unofficial app like you said. The main thing is I'm not talking about opinion of MS's implementation, I'm talking about her giving falsified facts.

Oh, & trust me, I'd love a full fledged File Manager/Explorer & a stand alone app as you said, but again that's not the point & is a completely different story.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rruffman:
I think it was mentioned a few post back WP7 is not built the way android is and does not group all content into one view it is based on the type of content it is i.e. pictures vs documents vs media (currently music is not available in music hub) but is visible in the SkyDrive documents section I really don’t think MS will ever change this it the way it designed it’s the "WP7 way" not the "Android way" things are organized into groups / hubs. Something an Android user coming to WP7 will most likely have to get use to..
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Follow up.

In the past month my Mother and 2 brothers have gotten Inspire 4Gs (AT&T HTC phone) and my sister still has her iPhone. My mom got my niece a cheap Android phone, some LG.

The Inspire 4g has literally no lag. None. Used it today for about 5 hours. I tried installing upwards of 13 apps concurrently, multi tasking 5+ Apps (the most Mango will allow). Nothing slowed the phone down.

So add that one to the list o Android devices that don't lag or stutter. It's actually kind of amazing, and with so many people I know picking up Android phones the value of WP7 to me is going down. It's simply a better user experience to communicate wiht them using an Android phone, than my WP7 device. Everything for that is already built into the system.

That device easily outperformed my HD7. It makes my Vibrant feel like an x86, too... There was no lag pinch, zooming the browser either...

Will be looking at those new Android phones come the holiday season. Microsoft was late. They're going to pay for that, IMO. Even random joe bloes are asking me "What kind of Android is your HTC [HD7]" now. That have literally no traction with the average consumer. Like, literally none.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
They added it in later, and the way you get it to work correctly on the website (it requires going to the website) is a bit of a usability fail for the average user. Would not want to walk my mom through that.

On Android they can just use first-class Docs/Music/Picasa/YouTube integration that works out of the box and perfectly with just the phone.

There are a lot of people who have smartphones but don't have their own computer. I think lots of people would actually be kind of suprised how common this use case is compared to what they would "guess."
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
You. just. don't. understand.

Nerds = niche.

Average Joe = Majority, common customer.

I don't know how else to say it.

I really don't care about reviews aimed at a niche community.

If "Power Users" were that big a market Linux would have topped Linux last decade.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
If they don't have their own computer, how do they upload their songs to Google Music?

Google Music isn't going to be free all the time, so what's the difference between that and Zune Pass (considering Zune Pass also lets you purchase/stream new songs)?

What if I, like most people, don't have an invite to Google Music?

SkyDrive music streaming hasn't officially been announced, it was discovered by a third party site. Therefore, why can you compare an unreleased feature to one that is in public beta?

SkyDrive also has first class docs and picture integration, including with Facebook.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
We aren't talking about an iPhone I. We're talking about WP7. When will you people stop reaching back to 2007 as if it's relevant today. The market is difference. Apple's phone was revolutionary and a gamble. WP7 in late 2010 was neither.

There is WAY more competition these days, and Apple is a lot more Agile than Microsoft is.

With the way Symbian Belle looks I'm even questioning Nokia's decision to go to WP7...
[Windows Phone 7 General] rruffman:
An OS success or fail is almost totally based on OEMs the more an OEM supports the OS the more popular the OS becomes has nothing to do with anything else this is the total bases of success for android it’s because so many OEMs have made thousands of handsets and the future is going to also be based on which OS has the best and most handsets... no one can predict what will happen if you think because you and friends around predict the future that’s not reality...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Did you take economics?

You need customers. Doesn't matter if you have all the OEM support in the world.

Look at the launch of WP7 for example.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
what a shocker, wp7s biggest troll finds no lag in a device that is just as choppy as any other and is even reviewed as such. Before replying i tested out my coworkers inspire, not only was it choppy but im pretty sure i could visibly witness the battery drain on it. Another underwhelming device used to troll wp7, gg.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
They think most consumers are like us and buy multiple phones a year, upgrading just cause the screen is 0.2" bigger or because it has a dual core instead of a single core. Ask most consumers about lag on their Android phone and they won't even know what you're talking about. Many of them don't evne use their phones enough to care, TBQH.

Buying a phone is all about what works best for you, not what someone else things.

The fact and the matter is, Android is flexible enough to work best for more people than any other platform. That's why it has basically grown and dominated the smartphone market just in a 2 year timespan.

The only thing the OEMs did to help it was allow it to compete at all price points, which is why Microsoft is working on Tango for low cost devices. Those are areas where RIM and Nokia dominated, especially in emerging markets. Apple will remains strong because they cater to a segment who are loyal to them anyways.

WP7 has to compete both in price and in function/flexibility. I'm not sure the platform really is ready to do that, yet. The user experienec isn't really all that dynamic, which leads to the device getting boring a bit faster than an Android phone. It's similar to an iPhone, except with tons of albulms missing from Zune Marketplace and an App Market/Dev and Corporate Support that it cannot compete with at the moment.

I think Microsoft going hard for consumers was a bit of a mistake. They really should have rolled in more of the flexibility and business-friendliness from Windows Mobile to broaden their potential user base, especially with RIM "going down" and many businesses looking for alternatives - which they aren't, with the way the OS is currently designed and functioning (even in Mango).
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Have you used the phone?

And why are you attacking me? Should I report you? I'm on the fence...

The device has recieved 1-2 updates since it was released, BTW. I stated I installed one before I started using it in my post. L2Read.

And no, it didn't lag. At all. It was buttery smooth.

Will visit again next week. Maybe I'll take a YouTube video.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Feel free, dont much care. My stepmother actually has an inspire after owning an iPhone 4 because she thought it'd be like an iPhone with a bigger screen. Her complaints are the battery life and the lag. I used the phone just hours ago with all updates its still slow in comparison to the dated hardware on wp7. No amount of hardware can make up for an I optimized OS, I thought vista proved that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rruffman:
Do you understand reality? the fact is Android is popular only because the vast amount of handsets that have been made nothing else most people don’t even know what the OS is all about when they go to buy a phone or they say i saw this on the TV it has nothing to do with what android has or doesn’t have... almost no one goes into the store and says i want an android because i know it has the most flexibility.

As far as WP7 12 handsets and 1 year is not a comparison unless you want to compare that with 1 year in on android...

Personally i do not see why the same android trolls continue to stay in these forums it’s called "Windows phone 7 forums" not android what’s wrong are the android forums so boring that you must troll over here???
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Yes, I know quite a few who don't own PC's, just a smartphone. But, they just use it for internet browsing & Facebook/Myspace/Tweeter/Youtube.

No, sorry you don't understand. There are far more Power Users & Advanced Users than you think. I don't know why people try falling back on this Average Joe cop out. Also, it's not the point. CNET is a Techy Power/Advanced User site. A review posted on it should be as such. I don't know why I'm even responding though. I've said this how many times & this thread has been thoroughly been derailed with more Android/WP7 wars.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Try understanding my point before responding. Someone said WP7 is the biggest/most expensive beta. Well they're wrong because the iPhone beat it out on that. Apple is far from Agile, how much has iOS changed? It's still the same thing w/more features. Same rows of icons. iPhone was not revolutionary, it's no different than WM & Android. It just performs better because Apple doesn't have to deal with OEM's & is locked down like WP7. More competition, yes, but way more, no. There's what 6 major Mobile OS'es & 3 are dying. Thank you everybody, I'm out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Interesting, didn't know SAMOLED's suffered from Burn-In. I guess I'll have to agree to not want one now.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rruffman:
that mostly happens when the screen setting is set to bright if you use the default / automatic setting it dosn't happen..
[Windows Phone 7 General] adesonic:
Why, yet again are these Android v WP7 wars breaking out on XDA, could I suggest a new forum is set up just for people to compare features of all the different OS's, that way, when I logged in to the WP7 forum, I would know I was going to find useful threads on WP7 and not android/ ios/ Web Os/ Ubuntu etc.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
That's what I'd like to see, sadly when I come in and see one of wp7s biggest trolls writing a full review of an android device in this forum I can't help but reply.
[Windows Phone 7 General] conantroutman:
This is done with.

Closed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] CliveEP:
Urgh.

She sounds like a bit of a useless prick.

Mango is intuitive. I shift more wp7 handsets to women of a similar age than iphones and thats just by showing them some of the cool, useful features. Maybe someone should have shown her a few bits and pieces before allowing her to blindly type out this nonsence.

Her valid points are blurred by her idiocy, and I couldnt care to read any more of that tripe.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Only going to comment on her conclusion post:

1. Zune Pass isn't expensive considering you get to keep 10 songs per month DRM-free. Don't think Spotify lets you do this. You can download unlimited DRM'd music to listen to offline, or stream unlimited amounts through Zune, XB360, Website, Zune[HD] Player, etc. It's a good deal.

2. Lack of Universal Search: She's right about this. The lack of Universal Search is an issue. Remember, WP7 was supposed to simplify our smartphone experience. Ommiting Universal Search does the exact opposite - by making performing any non-web search a two step process (open App/Hub, press search instead of just pressing search from the home screen. However there are shortcuts for some situations, like if the music is playing you can discover it easily...). Every other major smartphone platform has this.

3. Playlist issue is valid, and she balanced it with a compliment. Don't see a problem there.

4. Zune Pass Music Management. You can download and Buy Music directly from the phone.

5. SkyDrive: It's fine, however, SharePoint is more prominent than SkyDrive and that's a bit of an issue since the phone is supposed to be consumer-focused. More of an experience issue than a technical issue.

You don't have to use IE to use Silverlight, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with IE9... It's certainly better than FF now unless you're addicted to some FF Add-Ins.

IS SHE SERIOUSLY USING WINDOWS XP/IE8? SERIOUSLY... AM I BLIND OR IS SHE REALLY COMPLAINING ABOUT IE8 ON XP?

I almost want to be cynical and ask her if she's sure she wasn't using an HD2.

Please keep in mind her blog is called a rant. She her general "tone" is just in keeping with her theme. If you don't like it no one says you have to read it. However if she was bashing iOS or Android I wonder if anyone here would be calling her out on "inaccuracies" or claiming she's an idiot...

Don't answer that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] 66stang351:
She also claimed that she couldn't tap on an address in an email or text and have it open up the map and map it... That has worked since the beginning.
[Windows Phone 7 General] the_Enlightened:
i just think if you're used to ios or android, then you must adjust your thinking. You're used to open an app for every single little thing... Will be easier for unspoiled noobs:)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Sadly everyone can't use IE9. There are more XP users than anything else.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
They did complain in a past podcast that they were still forced to use XP at Cnet, same as in many businesses.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
I've just read the last page of this thread and really attacking the actual person just because she doesn't find WP7 the best OS shows are idiotic people can be on forums. She's entitled to her opinion and didn't say WP7 was bad, she just said it was good but lacking maturity when compared to Android/iOS which is true.

Yes she just tried to use it without reading a manual or research it but many average users would do just that. By the time they get home they have forgotten everything the seller talked about and learn by trial and error.

Also she was using the beta not RTM, on a phone that kept crashing on her. The blame is also on Microsoft for not making sure she got a perfectly fine handset. If a handset crashes that many times on you, you would be less likely to give it the thumbs up. That's why she was ranting about her Droid X in the first place!
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
She is entitled to her opinions, however, she is representing a company(CNET) and has some responsibility to provide truthful and balanced information.

I could care less if she were talking about iOS, Android, or any other mobile OS. I find it disgusting that a site like CNET publishes 9th grade level articles as if they are professional grade.

I honestly don't care if anyone likes WP7, Android, or iOS. I have devices on all three platforms and they all have their good and bad points. This review did not even attempt to be informative. It was like listening to a high-school girl complaining about her new boyfriend. In three months, this same girl will be swearing that her boyfriend can do no wrong.

Even if she doesn't like WP7, she owes it to her readers to provide valid and concise answers to the things she brought up as concerns. That would be proper journalism. Our current media is a joke.
[Windows Phone 7 General] 937dytboi:
I feel she has her own opinions about Mango. MS has been trying to convert iOS and Android users over to WP7, what we have to realize is that iOS and Android are app centric phones as with WP7 not so much. She was right when she said Apps play a big part in phones nowadays because iOS and Android rule the smartphone playground.

Then again people you cant please everybody and truthfully she compared the devices wrong, she basically bashed the WP7 along with her comments and facial expressions. She really commented on where WP7 didnt do better than Android but never really exposed where Wp7 was better than Android.

MS take this as a stepping stone and soon we will pass the other platforms, WP7 is moving along very fast. I chose WP7 because it is different and it appeals to me and not having the same look and appeal as iOS and Android shares. WP7 works and it works well. I dont care what her followers think, if they go off her word on choosing their next device they are truly retards.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
I think it's heavily because she was coming from Android. If anything is to be learned is not that it isn't simple for the average user it means that it's tough to convert a fairly tech-savvy Android user.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and different people will enjoy different phones. I think the problem with the 'review' was that it was unbalanced and outright wrong. There's a difference between a subjective opinion (e.g. the Metro UI) and an objective one (e.g. there's no way to accessing SkyDrive except with IE). The former is fine to report on because that's the person's opinion, but to claim the latter is just plain wrong (there are many reviews from tech sites and videos on YouTube showing SkyDrive integration). If this was a post to a friend or a small group of people, no one would really care. However, when you're an ambassador to a large site like CNET, there needs to be some professionalism and factual integrity involved.

That's not to say some of her points were not valid - they are. The turn-by-turn is poor (due to licensing issues), but since there are various turn-by-turn apps already available, there's no need to make it sound like a show-stopper.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
The poor Turn by Turn is a show stopper for many people, because all third party turn by turn apps except the one that I heard about some Europeans getting suck. Also, a growing number of users are replacing dedicated GPS units with smartphones because in many cases the phone works just as well. In some cases, even better.

I think the vitriol towards this woman is completely uncalled for.

It's dishonest to say you cannot make it sound like a showstopper when Google Maps is a main reason why so many people go for Android phones. If it can be a seller feature, it can certainly be a showstopper.

Bing Maps on Windows Mobile worked flawlessly - at least in the US. They should have use that and rolled out an updated version that uses Nokia/Navteq data when it was ready. Tap to advance in a Nav app is clunky and potentially dangerous while driving. The reason these TBT apps actually speak and auto advance is so that you don't have to look at or fiddle with them. You just listen.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
No, you've missed the point. She hasn't tried any of the third party apps or mention them. A balanced review would say something along the lines of "there are third party apps available which work in the US, but not so well outside the US". Considering 31% of CNET's audience (the majority) is from the US, it seems like the decent thing to mention.

Agreed, there's no need for personal attacks, but criticism of her 'review' is warranted.

No, it's not dishonest. No one's complaining about her mentioning the turn-by-turn. But what about the many other features that WP7 has that Android doesn't? If it can be a seller feature, then mention it in the video review. Don't just mention the one feature that is shoddy and ignore the others. That's being dishonest.

I'm guessing that's part of the Nokia deal. I don't think there's anyone here who says the having to tap the screen is a better solution than automatic speech. However, if being hands-free is so important, why didn't she mention the speech-to-text feature where you can have your text message read out to you and you can reply with speech, all without touching the phone. She talked about the annoyance of tapping the phone, and she talked about the lack of speech-to-text across the entire phone, but she conveniently left out a feature that avoids both. Texting when driving is also potentially dangerous.

The point isn't she's wrong about the turn-by-turn. The point is, the whole review focused on those two aspects and avoided all the features that WP7 has to offer over rivals.

Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert, who isn't a power-user nor a tech reviewer managed to come up with a good, balanced review that shows the pros and cons of the platform.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Has to offer over rivals?

Zune pass is all I see missing from the rivals. That's it. Oh you can add in XBL achievements. Yeah that's pretty much it.

So please enlighten us. You know what, forget it. No need for the derailment.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Was there any need for the last three sentences? Not sure why you're taking the criticism of a review so personally.

I'm not here to sell the phone to you, nor should the reviewer be. However, a balanced review should be explaining both sides of the coin. The fact that you think that only the Zune pass and XBL are the missing features shows that a balanced review would've helped.

As a consumer, it's surprising you don't want to know what the options are for you. Surely the more options, the better chance you have of finding a phone that suits you? Surely the stiffer the competition, the more features rivals would have put into their devices and give us consumers better devices?
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
My issue, with this review, has nothing to do with WP7. The issue I have is that I am really sick of the poor reviews that are coming from "claimed" professionals. It goes beyond this platform. I truly feel that tech reporting has seriously deteriorated because of blogging. All these "professionals" want is hits on their blog. They could care less about accurate and balanced reporting.

Technology requires subjective, fair, balanced, and non-biased reporting to be accurately assessed. We are not talking about hair and makeup, or which shoes will go with which outfit. That is what this review feels like to me.