yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Firstly, I don't spread about any WP7 competitor. As I said earlier, the more choices in the market, the better. Why people don't like competition is strange. I want to see WP7 succeed because it's a solid OS and would add another phone to the market and make Apple and Google step their game up for future phones. Why is that such a bad thing?

Secondly, the point isn't she didn't like it. The point is that she was spreading misinformation, which hasn't been corrected in another video, and she glossed over the positives instead of talking about what she did and didn't like in equal measure.

Erm...Molly isn't a tech geek? Lucky she isn't some sort of journalist and editor within the tech industry :rolleyes:.

A lot of people who aren't tech geeks are able the use the phone. If they need help, they can check the manual or Google - like what most people do when they need help with any mobile phone. Molly even has a twitter following she could've asked or the director of Windows Phone himself on tap. I remember when I got my first Android, it was soon after launch, and everyone said the same thing. "It's too complicated" and "it's only for geeks" - look where it is now. Stop holding double standards.

Yes, she does make valid points. As mentioned many times in this thread, the turn-by-turn issue is not good. If a unified SkyDrive app is so essential to you, why don't you download the app? For a lot of people, SkyDrive isn't a go-to place. It's there for when you need it. For example, I take a picture and from the camera, I can save it to SkyDrive (intuitive). Or, I'm looking through my pictures, and through the picture hub I can access the SkyDrive (intuitive). You want a unified SkyDrive hub for whatever reason? Get the app. Simple. Can SkyDrive be improved? Certainly, but it's not as bad as people are making it out to be.

Ironically, if you watched the video response, the guy claims that Molly didn't find FB integrated enough into her Android and that she had to fire up multiple apps just to take the picture, edit it, then post it. You can do all that smoothly on WP7 because apps are developed in such a way that it seems integral to the OS. So, does she want the integrate process, or the separate app launching process? Can't complain about both...
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I also want WP7 to succed and have options on the market (until there's too many of course)

She is but her video is from the average user perspective, who spent just a little time with the UI.

Lol I would love people to do that. This way WM would probably never die :D

But no, most people don't.

Well the basic info is - she doesn't REALLY like it. That's it.

Hmm, sorry but which app you're talking about? Does MS provide SkyDrive app working like file explorer across all of your SkyDrive content?!

Probably you're right here, I'm just a basic FB user so I never integrate this with my Contacts so I can't really comment on this. Probably FB integration on WP7 is good enough.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
It's not MS' official one, but the one she downloaded. She said it felt 'insecure', and I guess I understand that, but I haven't downloaded it myself so not sure who created it. I agree that SkyDrive needs improving, but it's not useless IMO.

Hopefully when Mango comes out, people will see if it's for them or not. I like the Android for hacking and pretty much being free to create any app and I like the WP7 for everyday use. No doubt it's not going to be "one phone for everyone" because of their needs. However, I'd hate to see such a solid OS being killed off at an early stage because of misinformation and not because it's not a good OS. Apple already copied the "one-button camera" click, so now Apple users can enjoy that feature. The whole app store industry, on the other hand, was really brought into the game by Apple. As long as we have more phones, the better the phones and services will be :).
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Skydrive is ridiculously good. It just needs first class integration covering most of it's capabilities across the phone. I have not used Mango yet, so I cannot comment extensively on it. Hopefully the integration is deeper than the SharePoint stuff currently in WP7, otherwise it will also be seen as a sort of niche feature like the Google Docs app Android.

Part of the reason I don't use SkyDrive or Google Docs is the poor integration with Mobile platforms outside of a few hooks (usually Picasa/SkyDrive photo albulm support and stuff like that, but no really good document management features are integrated). ATM (NoDo) SkyDrive is more usable on iOS and Andoid due to the better browsers on those platforms. That will change in Mango, though...

Found a nice read from someone who got a first look at Mango on his WP7 device HD7: http://gigaom.com/mobile/windows-phone-7-mango-preview/

Maybe it's old news by now. But he makes a statement that is exactly what I've said in many threads:

I think the biggest hurdle Microsoft will have is convincing people like me to stick with WP7 instead of moving to iOS or Android after we've bit into the hype and brought a launch device. Early adopters are your best source of advertisement, IMO. They killed WebOS, IMO, with their complants about hardware/battery life/speed, etc. on the Palm Pre/Pixi. What's hurting RIM right now isn't really the reviews, but their own customers who are defecting to other platforms and letting people know just how superior the other Mobile OSes are. Consumers, not business users (who actually need the security advantage they have over the competition and thus will not swicth on a whim like this). If I'm in a carrier store telling a Rep how much WP7 disappointed me and someone who was sort of considering it hears it, it might change their mind.

They needed to get Mango out to consumers last month, IMO. It's been almost a year since launch. Some people have Early Upgrades coming, and competing platforms are getting ready to release major updates and new devices.

I've always been pretty clear about my opinions on WP7. The smartphone market is all about choices and compromise. No platform is perfect, but the consumer always strive for a device that strikes a nice balance.

It simply isn't usable to me, as a smartphone. It's too anemic. It looks good, but function trumps fashion, and by function I don't mean power user function, some simple stuff just isn't there. Mango isn't perfect, but it will make the phone usable. However, I have an early upgrade coming up and I'm pretty sure it won't be to another WP7 device. Microsoft's ridiculously long update cycles just don't jive with me. Apple is the only reliable source for customers who want first-class support, IMO.
[Windows Phone 7 General] arturobandini:
I could not say it better.

Unfortunately, true also.

I could list dozens of simple stuffs, very basic features missing... Even after Mango... I can't understand why there are not here ?????!
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
If the President of Poland stepped up and said that from an average European perspective Barack Obama is a moron, would that disclaimer help? Don't think so. She didn't write her review on her personal blog. She did it at work, so people react accordingly.

As for the essence of what she said, I personally agree with most points. SkyDrive integration is mediocre, I think they'd better not make any turn by turn than do what they did, don't care about voice control but okay, maybe it's bad, maybe it's good, no idea. And if somebody can't find something without a manual that doesn't say much about usability. Intuitiveness is very subjective.

Overall the weird thing is that she doesn't list many cons, she just emphasizes them a lot.

That being said, we should just get over it, it's not worth it. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Well OK, so analogically she said exactly it's a friendship, not love relationship:D

I would accept it if any president would step up and say it from his perspective :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
I will never understand why people are soo butt-hurt over this blog posting.

Microsoft's marketshare is STILL dropping, and it's becasue of two main reasons:

1. Windows Mobile Users are not migrating to Windows Phone 7 - they are going to Android and iOS. At WP7 release Microsoft had about 8% Marketshare or something like that (maybe I'm remembering incorrectly). It's halved since then.

2. Windows Phone 7 is not picking up many converts from Android, iOS, or Blackberry RIM has dropped hard. Palm is basically non-existent, now. Microsoft didn't pick up any of those millions of customers for a net gain. They all went to Apple and Google. Practically all of them.

Alsoe #3: Nokia and other OEMs don't care if WP7 is dominating the market. They only care that they remain profitable. That is why some OEMs give preferential treatment to Android. It sells, WP7...well... doesn't. You can argue about this woman's blog post all day and all night, it won't change the fact that even before her post, the OS wasn't selling (I'm using that term loosely, any decently intelligent person should know what I mean by that) anyways.

If you can't pick up converts from Blackberry, which IMO was a less enthusiastic mobile platform to use than Windows Mobile, then I don't know what you're going to do.

Even if Microsoft remains th 3rd relevant ecosystem, it will so such a distant third that they'll almost not matter. I doubt Nokia will change this because Android has already infested their low cost, emerging markets (as well as Bada and Blackberry which is still seeing a lot of growth in those markets due to their cheap data-limit friendly Curve smartphones) and Apple is about to get there as well. They already almost always make sure they keep the second last model for dirt cheap in carrier stores, anyways.

The issue isn't how good Mango is, or anything. The issue is that they rushed WP7 to market almost a year early and now they have Windows Mobile baggage as well as pre-Mango Baggage to deal with, in a VERY much more competitive smartphone market.

The OS doesn't have to be the best thing since sliced bread for anyone to like it, so stop arguing about what this or that person prefers or who's an idiot for not reading the manual (I didn't know people read those, but whatever). I doubt this woman's opinion will have a huge influence over a factorable number of people. It surely won't make or break the platform or make it a failure just because she didn't like it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] phoneguy 4567:
Exactly

Molly Wood will have very little impact on how WP7 does. MS has had this thing out for almost a year & they have done very little with it in that time, other then the Nokia partnership. Since then all I seem to read is how great the future will look when Nokia gets in the game, talk about putting all your eggs in one basket :(.

As a Focus user it's depressing to see how MS has squandered the early positive buzz, being replaced by largely accurate negative commentary. If there is anything to be learned from Blackberry it's that people get bored easily, & unless MS moves quickly people will get bored with WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
The issue is... Microsoft is incapable of moving quickly, really. They aren't really that agile. That's where Apple and Google have a huge edge over them. RIM is having the same issues. They lack agility, so they really can't react to market and competitive changes in decent timespans. It takes them forever to get stuff out the door that needed to be out the door last year.
[Windows Phone 7 General] mikroland:
We shall see won't we when we have fully baked in Skype, front facing cameras, 1.5 GHZ processors, large screen sizes, better battery life than android will ever have, etc, etc....

BTW, MS is hardly slow at reacting. Look at this masterpiece they have created along with their Partner Nsquared in the video in the link below. This truly is "magical" unlike what the ipad claims to be.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/239232/new_tech_helps_you_work_with_multiple_gadgets_looks_like_magic.html
[Windows Phone 7 General] Professor Simon Peach:
After watching both video I have made the following observations : -

I suspect that Molly Wood was born a man

I suspect that Carl Camera is a serial killer
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
The issue is... Android has Google Talk Completely Baked in with Video Chat and Presence in the Contacts App. Android Manufacturers had a People Hub before Microsoft new it existed. Skype is on Android now. 6 months ago when they were showing it off "for the future" people who needed it were in the stores buying iPhones and Android devices. Android and iOS devices already have FFC and Android devices are already shipping with Dual Cores at 1GHz. Galaxy S II has a 1.2 GHz Dual Core, IIRC.

4.5 inch screens? The Dell Streak had a 5" screen over a year ago...

Again, you're talking about stuff that Microsoft is supposed to bring, which has existed on other platforms for 6 months to a year already. That is exactly what I'm talking about.

For example the HD2 shipped with WiFi Sharing out of the box in 2009 but Microsoft is just getting around to adding it to WP7 in Mango, a year after release and about 2 years after the HD2? It still won't have Flash which will turn off a lot of Android converts.

Microsoft is not that agile.

Last reply to this line of convo because you're trying to turn this into another Android/iOS vs. WP7 bashfest. I won't participate.
[Windows Phone 7 General] mikroland:
I guess you didn't watch my linked video,no one else has this technology. They didn't get there by being slow.

The Skype experience in WP will be head and shoulders above the other platforms.

You didn't say anything about the battery woes on android.

How long did it take android to get where it is today, 3 or more years right? WP7 IS A REWRITE . Look at the tremendous achievements they've made in 1 year from a rewrite. Imagine how good its going to be in two years from now on this pace. Definitely will be ahead of android at this pace, there's no denying that.

Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] phoneguy 4567:
A person buying something today doesn't care how long it took Android or iOS to get to where they are, they live in the present not the past or the future. If a salesperson tried to use the argument that the product they're selling will be better in the future they would sell nothing.

Molly Wood doesn't have to find workarounds and read the manual if she doesn't want to, that's just the way it is. None of the people I know go out of their way to read the manuals. The promised awesomeness of WP7 was ease of use & integration, kind of implies indirectly that there is no need to read the manual.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Saux64:
That's a valid point except for those not so very clever used to a different platform.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
One more thing you guys forget to mention. Microsoft has to complete the purchase of Skype first.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Please post you proof of performance. As there is none. Only misconceptions.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rruffman:
I guess the guy in this video is mis-concived then...

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=910118

the fact is there are many video showing this am i am sure most have seen them if not simply go to youtube and do a search there are bench test as well as users test this is NO SECERET!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
I think the major issue in this thread that people are not getting, it's not about her not liking WP7. She gave a few valid Cons of WP7. Can't deny that, but the problem is she never took the time to learn the OS & gave false information. The biggest thing that stands out is she said something above there being no Skydrive app & that the only way to access it was through IE9. Yes, there is no app, there's no need for one. It's integrated into the OS. Did she never open the Photo & Office Hubs? How can you miss that. I've flashed Mango a few times mainly to test a few things out & see the status of Homebrew & hackability. I've probably tested the built in new feature for a total of 2 hrs & while I may not know all of Mango's new abilities inside out. I do know that there is indeed Skydrive access outside of IE9 & it's pretty damn good. While the cloud isn't my preferred method of file access, it sure is useful & well implemented. No extra apps needed, it's just there. My only hope is that it hopeful does/will support media streaming. Didn't look into that as I have no music/videos on my Skydrive to test it. So, if it's there, please confirm this. It doesn't matter though as I have a NoDo app that handles this. It turns my PC into a media server from behind my router/firewall.

EDIT: The only thing I think that could make Skydrive better would be to make your PC a server for all your documents/pictures/music/videos/etc. No need to setup syncs with a website or anything like that. That's what I like most about my NoDo Media Server app. No need to copy music to my device via Zune & eat up storage. No storage limitation other than the size of my hard drive, totally up to me. No need to upload files to Skydrive or set up a sync relationship. The only downside to this I can think of, your home internet dumps out when you're not home.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
That's very interesting, where did you get it from?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
My point proved. That's a misconception. Plus it looks silly.

You can't compare two completely different programs. They both are programmed for two different rendering speeds. That has nothing to do with performance.

You need the exact same app, programmed the exact same way.
[Windows Phone 7 General] pillsburydoughman:
Reboots create a bad bad impression. I original bought an LG optimus 7 that rebooted constantly and I disliked it very much. Switched to Samsung Focus and I love it.

Reboots are bad
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
You know that'd an impossible situation. That app in both phones is the photo viewer so it is a valid comparison. Also, there are many other videos out there of this kind. People try stating in the thread comparing Dual Core Androids to a Single Core, as due to bad drivers, bad code in the photo viewer. They tried saying the Dual Core CPU doesn't help draw the 3D Photo Viewer in Android, all of which is false or at lease proving the point for WP7 being smoother. The fact remains that no app/OS/etc. should perform slower on a newer dual core chipset. Not only is it at least the same 1GHz, newer chipsets do more work per clock cycle. Plus it's a Dual Core. It doesn't matter if driver/OD are bad or if the OS isn't Dual Core Ready. Windows XP wasn't Dual Core ready but showed Multitasking benefits from Dual Cores. HTC is known for making garbage drivers even in WP7, so it's not that. Then, let's not forget the Dual Core Snapdragons have a much better GPU & WP7 is a completely 3D UI. So, in the end, there's no justifiable reason that a Dual Core Snapdragon/Tegra chipset Android should be slower than WP7 at anything other than the poor performance of the OS itself. Oh yeah, & I believe the device in question also has twice the RAM.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rruffman:
It was on Youtube.. there is also some benchmark test also out there as well
[Windows Phone 7 General] mikroland:
Android = Garbage java phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] 66stang351:
If you need the exact same app programmed the exact same way you could never compare between Android and WP7 or iOS. Even if you port the same app across from Android to WP7 or iOS it is then programmed differently making the comparison invalid in your eyes.

In real life the only way to compare is the way it is done in that video. Take the default picture app on one phone and compare it to the default on the other phone. The real trick here, that makes WP7 more attractive to me, is that it doesn't matter which manufacturer/model of phone...they all perform with the same smotthness. On Android some are good, some are bad and some are just plain ugly.

The thing about Molly's "review"...not sure it should be called that...that I don't like is the number of things she stated that were flat out wrong. Some of them she later corrected in the write up, but not all. Things like touch and hold for cursur, tap an address in an SMS or email to bring it up on the map, Facebook chat...which setups up automatically the first time you go into the messaging hub, must have been blind to miss that...Skydrive integration, etc. Almost all of that stuff is right in front of you when you use the phone...no need to read a manual. If she had used the phone for more than a minute and even tried any of the options she would have seen that stuff. She even claimed she had tried push and hold for cursur...maybe she didn't hold long enough or something. For the rest there is no excuse for missing them as they are all very obviously displayed.

It seems fairly obvious to me that she never really used the phone and did her review based on a bunch of preconceived ideas and only went and looked at things after she got corrected in the comments.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Wrong. Not a valid comparison. Its not the exact same photo app on both devices. They are both obviously coded differently.

I don't understand how you guys don't see that.

Example.

Go look at a bench website for browsers and see who is the leader.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rruffman:
No the fact is Android is badly coded there is no denying it.. that goes for phone as well as tablets the scrolling is jerky pinch and zoom is laggy no matter if it is the pictures hub or webpage or an app. they are all the same as they use the core functions of the os to do these jestures dosnt matter what app its is if you coded any apps you would know devs that create apps do not code the pinch and zoom jesture they use functions the os provides so the actual pinch and zoom jesture is being handeled by the OS not the app to is also true from scrolling and other functions as well...
[Windows Phone 7 General] mikroland:
yeah, that's why android is "free". There's a reason people pay for software, its usually better.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
This part of the forum is so lost.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rruffman:
lost how?? its a fact the scrolling jestures, swype jestures, pinch and zoom are all OS controlled no developer is coding or creating their controls this coming from android's componants in which the OS handles and the fact is android dosn't handle this very well so no pince and zoom, list scrolling does not have anything to do with the devs coding. perfect example wp7 has silverlight who makes list boxes as well as other companys 3party controls after mango the list scrolled at lease 40% smoother and apps responded 40% quicker than NoDo without any dev recompiling any code. you will never win this one as its android nothing else.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Who said it wasn't?

Lost.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rruffman:
so maybe you can enlighten us? then we will not be lost anymore...
[Windows Phone 7 General] rruffman:
I agree with you I personally think she glossed over it and tried to act like she used the phone and clearly she didn't. I think it had more to do with her being challenged but she had no intentions to keep up her end of the challange. just because you have a "TITLE" Dosn't mean you know the first thing about the "TITLE". There is no way I would post anything with my name attached to it that made me look like a moron..