yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] thesecondsfade:
I was not saying that she never said anything bad or negative about Android, just that she is clearly biased toward Android. It's obvious in how she talks about it. It just sounds like she went into the review with a predetermined idea that she was not going to like Mango.

She obviously didn't put any effort into finding out solutions to some of the problems she complained about like TBT Nav. If she is going to do an unbiased review without actually putting a little effort into figuring that stuff out (it would literally take 5 minutes to figure most of it out), then she has no business reviewing it. It's very apparent that she just played a little bit with the Mango phone and didn't actually use it as her daily phone for the few weeks she used it.

This type of bias exists with almost everyone I know who has an Android (or iPhone). They just do not want to acknowledge that something better might be out there. I make a point of showing people my Mango features as much as possible. When I have shown some of the Mango features to people with iPhones and Androids, most are really impressed... and I mean, really impressed. Then they say they won't change phones even when they are up for an upgrade. It's a lost cause.

By the way, on a side note, who the hell uses voice to text

all the time

? That just seems unbelievable to me. So you're sitting on the subway or waiting in line at a restaurant and you're talking into your phone telling it what to write in an email or to open a program? It's hard to believe that anyone uses their phone this way. Doesn't she have co-workers that get annoyed at her speaking commands into her phone all day? I don't get how this Molly character even has a job with CNET quite honestly.
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
The only one of those you listed that CAME BUILT-IN was Android. The rest had some of these features added after the fact. Blackberry Maps wouldn't even work on half the BB devices for the longest time(carrier locking of GPS).

Who cares about Symbian, and why bring that into this conversation now. It seems you are just trying to bolster your situation with irrelevance.

There is no standard of turn-by-turn maps except for Google Maps on Android. That is as good as it gets for free. There is also a free app for WP7, with turn-by-turn and voice guidance, but that is not what is being discussed. The point, once again, was her expecting it to be built-in and nobody questioning why WP7 is being held to a higher standard than iOS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Android comes with a ton. The difference is that the service integration isn't baked into the core OS. If Google upgrades YouTube or Google+, or Google Docs you don't need a system update. You update it through the market. Literally all of Google's services are integrated into Android, with PUSH support, etc.

Spotify is a Subscription service for music, similar to Zune Pass. It's not the Apps she's comparing, it's the services (pricing, etc. it's not hard to see this).

Google has Google Music with an App on Android. There is Amazon MP3 pretty much baked into every Android phone. There are Spotify, Pandora, Slacker, etc. apps for Android. But that's goign on a tangent.

No, it means I deleted the huge wall of text I had and replaced it with that sentence, because I didn't want to have to respond to faux rebuttals in response to it. That's what it means. That's not a cop-out. I have read the whole thread. He's completely unreasonable. That's my opinion. Don't like it? That's your business :P
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Blackberry Maps works on all recent Blackberry devices. I've owned 2 Blackberries in the past year. Don't lie.

I'm not bolstering my ARGUMENT with anything. I'm giving you facts. WM, Symbian, BB, and Android all came or come with Mapping Pre-Installed or available in their respective marketplaces form the OS vendors.

Bing Maps, Ovi Maps, BB Maps, and Google Maps.

You're wrong. Stop trying to save face.

Millions of people care about Symbian. You're trying to discount it as a means to save face.

Again, wrong. Google does not offer Turn by Turn Voice-Guided Navigation on any platforms other than Andorid. The Turn by Turn on other platforms isn't even really that good, and integrataion with other google services and the phone itself on non-Android devices is pretty terrible. Microsoft did the same thing. Bing Maps on iOS/Android have no Voice Guidance, but Bing Maps on Windows Mobile had flawless voice guidance for me.

I should know. I've had 4 smartphone platforms in the past year and used Google Maps (and Bing) on all of them (except Blackberry).

That is why companies like RIM, Nokia, and Microsoft all had their own mapping solutions, with TBT and in 2/3 of those cases Voice-guided navigation. Having a Google Maps app available on the platform is not what sells that platform. Maps on Android is a seller because of the system and services integration it had in the phone. It's the full experience that matters to customers, not just its mere presence. That is the issue with Mango's navigation. Yes, it's THERE, but the actual user experience is terrible. Having a terrible Google Maps app with no Voice Guidance and terrible app/system integration is not any better, IMO.

I've always said that Google is superior because of their agility and ability to integrate their services quickly and seamlessly with their smartphone platform. That's something Apple and Microsoft and a bit slower at. Also, having this functionality baked into the core OS is a Pro and a Con. When something needs to be updated and the functionality isn't modularized, the user is forced to wait for an entire system update to come through which is a way worse experience than just updating it from the market.

You were wrong. Move on. The sky isn't falling.
[Windows Phone 7 General] phoneguy 4567:
@ Naplesbill

Symbian & Ovi Maps is valid in the list because Symbian is still being sold & used, & Ovi Maps is one of the things WP7 users wait to have integrated into Bing Maps.

How is carriers locking the GPS to prevent users from using a BB feature relevant? I've constantly read how MS can't be blamed for slow updates because the carriers are holding it up, but I guess the same thinking doesn't apply to RIM.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
I know people who use it religiously. I'm always wondering how they can say "I'm driving home right now" when I txt them "where are you?" and they tell me they used voice to text. But obviously using a different type of phone.

I'm not a fan of that functionality, personally, because it encourages txting while driving.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
So if the integration isn't baked into the OS, does that mean the Android review would be absolutely rubbish? On par with WP7, OS-feature wise, WP7 mops the floor with Android? I don't think that's how this challenge works and, if it is, why did Molly still prefer Android considering there is nothing baked into the OS? The review was not limited to just what was out of the box - it's everything.

She discussed the lack of a SkyDrive app freely. According to you, why is it okay for her to discuss the lack of that yet not discuss the alternative navigation apps?

Who's "he"? Do you mean me? If so, then show me where I've been unreasonable. I happily accepted that I was incorrect using the term 'lie' instead of 'misunderstood'. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to admit it, but I'm not just going to accept being called "unreasonable" for no reason.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Except on Windows Phone 7 where you can do that without touching the phone ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
If anyone is trying to save face here it is you for certain. This topic was never about BB, Symbian, or anything other than WP7 vs Android vs iOS. These are the three systems the reviewer compared against. WP7 COMES WITH MAPPING PREINSTALLED. What is missing is turn by turn, voice guided mapping. Learning to read entire statements would alleviate a lot of the misunderstanding you seem to be having. The only mapping software worth a damn on WM was Garmin. And that is not a free app. I have had 6 different WM phones as well (Samsung Blackjack, Tilt, Blackjack II, LG Incite, Tilt II, and HTC Pure). I can say from experience that comparing any of the free mapping on any of them to Google Maps with NAV on Android would be a joke. Garmin was great though.

Blackberry Maps is complete trash. I have owned every Blackberry since they were black and white LCDs. Mapping has never been good on a Blackberry. There definitely was not a voice guided, turn by turn nav app built-in and free. Blackberries were always tied to the carrier and the carrier's NAV app. This meant a monthly fee. There is no point in misrepresenting something like this. It is irrelevent anyway.

Symbian is essentially non-existant and a dead-end, not worth discussing. OVI Maps are supposed to come to WP7 with Nokia, so at that point, it may be worthy of beating Google Maps on Android.

Don't confuse mapping and navigation, they are not the same. Also, having Bing bundled by the carrier is not built-in because it can be unbundled. Don't be so adademic with this crap. The reality is not what you are trying to portray and my point is still the same. Google Maps on Android is the only BUNDLED MAPS with NAVIGATION worth using. That is what I said before and that is what I am saying now.

So let's not mince words here, and more to the point anyway, NOTHING free compares to Google Maps with NAV on Android. This is a simple fact. I can't tell you how many Android users I know that will not switch simply because of this. So don't try to water this fact down by stating that other platforms have maps, or turn-by-turn, or voice guidance. That was never the point, the point is that none of the non-paid programs can hold a candle to Google's system. This is why I said it is not right to give iOS a pass, but try to hold WP7 to the same standard as Google. Even Apple cannot compete with Google on this front.

Bottom line, if you want something better than Google Maps with NAV on Android, you have to pay for it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
I can understand where you are coming from, but Symbian was not a part of the review we are discussing. Symbian is also a dead-end platform. However, OVI Maps is supposed to be coming to WP7 via Nokia so it may be relevent at that point.

Carrier locking the GPS means you cannot use ANY map program for free without paying the carrier. That does not fit in with this discussion either.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
I've already stated that with a BT headset even on other platforms you can do it without touching the phone. Distractions are distractions are distractions.

But nice one-liner :)

And it's obvious who "he" is. Maybe you should pay attention to Who or What I quote before you reply to me?
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
Well, passengers are distractions too. Are you suggesting we shouldn't have passengers either?

It is very simple really, know your priorities and you will be able to drive safely, regardless of distractions.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Here's your original post (where you've only quoted me and no one else):

So, you're still talking to me and calling me "unreasonable, disingenuous, and generally emotional". Fine, we sorted that out.

Then after my reply, once again you quote me:

If you're replying to me, why have you suddenly called me 'he' instead of 'you'? Instead of me paying more attention to who you're quoting, maybe you should pay more attention to who you're quoting.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vash_h:
guys guys.. chill..

its typical for guys to get into fights or heated arguments over a girl..

LOL
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Not just any girl!! :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Driving lessons. Talk about derailment...
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Please give the thread a trivial read-over. I'm not going to entertain your rhetorical questions.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
It wasn't rhetorical but nevermind. :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] thesecondsfade:
I think xda would be a boring place without N8ter :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Oh have I just conversed with one of those posters?
[Windows Phone 7 General] abn.geek:
I don't get why she only gave it a week. I suppose I'd consider myself a "power user," but after 3 years of iOS and 1 year of Android, WP7 takes some getting used to. I'm starting week 3(?) with my Focus and I'm still figuring things out. It's a kick-ass platform, but it's very different from what I'm accustomed to and it takes a bit of mental reprogramming.

One major hang-up for me was trusting that the integrated features (i.e. Facebook chat, Twitter, etc.) were going to be good enough replacements for the actual apps (and they are as good or better in my experience, and far more efficient than having individual apps).

She has a fair point about on-device playlist management - it's atrocious, and one thing I really hate about WP7. The music hub in general is just not superbly intuitive, but perhaps that's down to preference. I don't like that I have to click twice to get to a point where I can choose artist/song/album. I would also like an easier method of accessing the play/pause/skip features while actually playing music (a la the Android status bar pull down) while using other features on the device, and the fact that there are no play controls on the very first screen of the music hub (when you first open it with music playing) is absolutely baffling to me.

She also has a fair point about SkyDrive integration. I feel that it should be accessible from any hub in which you'd intuitively want to use SkyDrive. Better yet, the capability for first-level access to specific SkyDrive folders should exist from any hub (i.e. the "Music" folder from the music hub, "Photos" folder from the photo hub, etc.) and the fact that there is no Explorer based desktop client (a la Dropbox or MobileMe) is a miss on MS's part.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Not sure if you're using Mango or not. She was using Mango and SkyDrive integration is pretty much everywhere you'd expect it. If I go to the Photos hub, it shows me pictures from my camera, phone, Facebook and SkyDrive. Liekwise, if I go to the Office hub, I can access all my documents from the phone and SkyDrive. However, I agree that the service still isn't perfect and a desktop client (which doesn't require the user to manually create one) would be good.
[Windows Phone 7 General] abn.geek:
Huh. I knew the office hub one was there, but it's pretty lacking (can't delete files...really?). Didn't know about the photo hub. Cool! I'm on Mango RTM.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
Just FYI, you can slide across for song, artist or album. Not sure if that's what you meant?

As for accessing play/pause/skip you can tap the volume rocker and it'll show the controls.

As for the very first screen, you tap first tile that's at the top of your History list to get to the play controls.
[Windows Phone 7 General] abn.geek:
I mean when you click on the music hub from the home screen, you then have to click on "music" before you can slide across for song/artist/album. Just bugs me. I think those things should be on the first level of the hub.

Awesome, thanks!

That part I know - I just don't like that you have to tap twice. If there's music playing, I simply don't get why there wouldn't be play controls immediately available when you open the music hub.
[Windows Phone 7 General] abledanger:
It would be nice if you could swipe this screen away once you are done with it. Sometimes I get annoyed waiting for the autohide timeout.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
One thing missing from Mango (beta 2 at least, not sure about RTM) is the audio position bar/time. It was there in NoDo so I'm not sure why they removed it, but it's a bit annoying when you're trying to fast forward but you don't know whereabouts you currently are.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Plasma_Canon:
Hit the back button...well on mango
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Nope. I stopped posting for over 2 months and nothing changed. This place will always be a bonfire :P
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
lol, good stuff! :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] JC_Agga:
I don't care she didn't like it if she knew how to operate it. What really bothers me is that her lack of knowledge of this new OS. She clearly stated that shes not gonna even look at the manual for functionalties. She says that shes gonna try to figure it out by herself.... that is one thing. The other thing is that she clearly said that shes frustrated with her buggy Android device. And now shes got the buggy free os that works like a charm, she doens't recommend it over android because of nip picky things that she doesn't know how to use them.

The other crucial mistake is by Brandon. Even though the one Molly used was as close to RTM build, because its still a beta, she won't be getting full experience with 3rd party apps in multitasking field. And because Brandon was so confident, i'm not sure if he or microsoft have to give $1000 for charity, for nothing when they could've waited till mango is officially availalble, like today fujitsu is selling the official mango device. Anyways I hope Molly look at wp7 again when it hits the stores.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JC_Agga:
So you are saying a test pilot shouldn't read manual before he/she can even fly it? what kind of question is that? There is a reaon why Molly became a tech blog person. I believe they should know the product before telling people about the product. But yes i think Brandon made a mistake by sending her the prototype... but Molly should've mentioned in every video that shes running a prototype OS clearly.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JC_Agga:
lol I do remember being biased while i had hd2. But i was biased when i saw the beta. When they showed the full verison i was hooked with how smooth it was.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I completely disagree. She clearly stated up front in her week 1 recap that the phone was running build 7712. That is all the due diligence required of her. She has no obligation to apologize for having been sent a beta build phone. That responsibility falls squarely on Brandon Watson's shoulders.

Remember, she didn't seek Microsoft out for the purpose of reviewing the phone. They sought her out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] phoneguy 4567:
That's key they chose her & she gave her thoughts. The fact that MS decided to give her a beta version is their fault. In my opinion putting on a beta copy of the OS, rather then just giving her a standard WP7 phone, looks like MS doesn't have confidence in what they're currently selling. Mango does not add a whole lot to the WP7 experience, because right now there are no Mango specific apps that take advantage of it. Twitter integration, Scout etc. are nice but not worth taking a risk of the beta being unstable. A quick look at the threads on XDA discussing the Mango developer & RTM releases indicate bugs that not everyone is experiencing, yet this is what MS chose to have Molly evaluate.
[Windows Phone 7 General] henry084:
3 reboots in 15 mins?!

15 reboots in 1 day?!

I think she'd better take the phone to HTC for a warranty claim/repair......

I also have a Trophy, and never have a self reboot since upgraded to NoDo.:confused:
[Windows Phone 7 General] Plasma_Canon:
I completely disagree that mango sans specific apps don't add a lot to wp7 experience and I'm sure you will easily find plenty of people who have used mango and will also disagree with you. If I didn't know the version I had was beta, there's nothing that I've experienced while using the phone that would lead me to believe that it's beta.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Just came across this video response to Molly's video.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I'm not sure I would promote that as an intelligent response to Molly Wood's article. In fact, I find that level of blatant fanboyism really kind of embarrassing. I could only stand to watch about half of it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
I don't think it's supposed to be an intelligent response and I'm not sure who's promoting it to be one. More satirical than anything.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
As I wrote on WMPoweruser, the guy IMO is an idiot with emotional problems.

He makes more damage to WP7 than any critical review.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
Satire requires intelligent wit. That video displays neither.

Everyone has acknowledged that Wood made some mistakes in her review, mostly based on her unfamiliarity with WP7 and how some things work, but she also leveled some valid criticisms, and they are criticisms that most people migrating from other platforms will have, whether we like it or not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Whether or not you find it funny or intelligent doesn't define if it's satirical or not. It's not a relative definition.

Nevertheless, if someone was going to do a video response, I think it would've been more effective to explain the mistakes and keep it professional.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
She did it right.. here's why:

She took all the things she was used to doing on her regular phone, and tried it on a new (to her) phone. Even pointed out room for improvement. The guys response was creepy for a dude his age.
[Windows Phone 7 General] arturobandini:
Yes, this guy is really an idiot. He definitely helped the cause against WP7.

Molly raised several valid points and pointed out several missing features.

Now I would like MS to admit such failures and improve dramatically the OS.

PS: and Molly could benefit from all the US-centric services that Microsoft is unable to propose to its European customers. If Molly was a European her review would have probably been even worse.
[Windows Phone 7 General] FiyaFleye:
Molly pointed out missing features which weren't missing, such as her SkyDrive comment. She is a biased idiot, and I was really embarassed to watch her reviews. Not saying this guy is any better, but if you're going to post a review, especially as a CNET editor, you better make sure you do it right. Her only valid point came about the maps option. She really does seem like an idiot, I handed my girlfriend (who sucks with phones) my phone and asked her to open a document... She opened a SkyDrive document in 3 seconds... It doesn't say much for this lady. I think that's what most people see wrong with this lady... Not her opinion, but her lack of knowledge, especially as a "tech enthusiast" - I'm pretty sure some Android jock straps here would be offended if somebody said "hey, this thing sucks because the music player doesn't work like iTunes," but the same argument can be used against WinPhone? Things work differently, even between OS versions... As a user you should expect it to be different... She tried to do things she does with her regular phone? You're right, but she did it as though it WAS her regular phone, not bothering to learn the phone...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Lol, that was a crazy video. Look at the comments and how they bash on this woman. Are they mad at how she uses a phone?
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
She was given a device by Brandon to see if she would like it enough to buy it or use it on daily basis and choose it immediately over Android OS. She was unhappy about some of her Android experience.

She didn't fall in love. She misses features. Yet the whole bunch of WP7 enthusiasts still have basic comprehension problems. Just accept it. SHE DOESN'T LIKE IT just like you all hate other platforms and spread bull**** about any WP7 competitor. WP7 is not a holy grail for everybody.

You want WP7 success? That's what I told you, it also has to attract more people like Molly, who are not tech geeks all the time, having alot of spare time to understand and analyze every bit of the OS. Apparently it's not so clear for everybody.

And she makes valid points. Actually lack of unified SkyDrive app which would allow to collectively manage your SkyDrive files is necessary. You have some SkyDrive functionality bundled into apps instead. It's not the same.