yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I don't what you guys are reading, but from my perspective it was a consumer review. Not a tech company or phone website review.

All I read was some woman, received a phone to try out. I didn't expect to see a comprehensive review, and it wasn't presented as a comprehensive review.

It was presented as a average consumer review. Dont see how anyone can be mad at that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
"Some woman" happens to be an influential reviewer at a large site. Therefore, logically, there is some responsibility of providing facts. I'm not sure how you can consider spreading lies about a product as okay. No one was expecting a comprehensive review, like you may see on Engadget and Gizmodo, but people were expecting pros and cons of the platform.

Molly Wood is a professional tech journalist, who does many reviews, so that reputation is aligned with her regardless of what you consider the review to be. If you have a certain reputation, you have to accept that whatever you say in the public domain will be linked to you and your company's site, especially if you're hosting the video and review on that site. Her claiming to be a 'power user' and failing to understand how to access SkyDrive just lowers her credibility. A quick Google search, or a read of the manual, would've helped if it really was that difficult. How comes Scott Adams managed to do a decent review (and he's neither a power user nor a tech journalist)? It wasn't 'comprehensive', but it got to the point and talked about good and bad points - which was the point of the entire challenge.

I'd feel the same way if someone was given an Android to use and they claimed that a lot of apps have malware in them and focus only on that and don't mention good apps like Swype.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
Because Scott Adams is, by his own admission, a casual user, not a phone tester. His review only covered four areas, and even those were covered in the most cursory fashion. He looked at call quality, battery life, on-screen keyboard usability, and general user interface impressions.

He never even mentioned the turn-by-turn debacle. He never mentioned SkyDrive (good or bad). He never mentioned Zune, Social integration, or any other pluses or minuses of the phone.

The important takeaway for Microsoft from Molly Wood's review is that she approached it exactly the way most people coming from Android would (very few people are going to consult a manual), and it shows that there is a steeper learning curve with WP7 than perhaps Microsoft expected.

Hopefully they are looking at this review more objectively than most of the people here.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
If I give two phones, one to a 'power user' and one to a 'casual user' and I don't expect a comprehensive review, I would expect the pros and cons of their experience. As I said, Scott Adams didn't write a comprehensive review, but he did give a more balanced view.

No, he didn't. He probably didn't use it. At the same time, I also don't think he said lied about the platform. If you don't know about something, or haven't used it, don't comment on it. If you're going to go ahead and discuss it, then give a balanced view. As I said earlier, for example, Molly could've mentioned the other apps already out there that provide turn-by-turn navigation. Considering she's from an Android background, wouldn't an app be the first thing you look for? Or has some bias come into play....?

Scott Adams, as we've established, is a casual user. He comes from an iPhone and Android background and considered WP7 easy to use. At the end of Molly's review, the interface was easy to use. Whilst there is a learning curve, I think it's only steepened by a lack of willingness to learn. I guarantee when she wants to solve a problem with Android, she'd Google it. There's nothing wrong with that, it's what most people do. I'm not sure why she couldn't afford WP7 that same 'privilege'. I do agree that there is something to be learnt from her experience and MS should definitely look into the things she is saying, but for her to come to a conclusion without trying to fix it is just misleading.

In what way? I think we all agree that turn-by-turn navigation is poor and needs to be fixed. I think we also all agree that speech-to-text is not integrated throughout the entire phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
As long as you continue to insist that Wood was "telling lies" in her review, it is impossible to reason with you. Misunderstanding a feature isn't telling a lie about it. Lying implies that one fully knows the truth but consciously chooses to hide or misrepresent it. Nothing in the review shows that there was any such attempt on her part. Did she misunderstand some key points of WP7 in her review? Absolutely. Did she lie about them? No.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Okay, I will happily retract the 'lie' statement and replace it with "misunderstood". Would be nice though if she updated the video and mentioned she was wrong. Misunderstanding is one thing - sticking by it is another.

Not sure why such a thing would make it "impossible to reason with [me]".

Edit - What I really consider misleading is that the video contains the negatives, while the text review contains some positives. Why not do both in the video?

It seems I'm just an anomaly here, but I'd prefer more options in the smartphone marketplace. I'd like to see platforms grow to a high level so that consumers and developers have a choice of what they want to use and/or develop for. Why people like seeing other platform fail is beyond me because it just means less choice for consumers. I feel trying to kill a young platform, without a valid reason, is a shame.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I fully agree that it would make sense for her to update her reviews with areas where further information clarified her mistakes. However, I don't think she has any obligation to look for ways to cast a favorable spin on WP7 (such as going out of her way to look for paid marketplace apps that compensate for the Bing maps deficiency). That isn't her job. If anything, doing that would make her something close to a shill, and turn her review into more of a WP7 infomercial.

As for the "impossible to reason" comment, it's simple. When someone latches onto the idea that someone else is a liar (when there is no evidence of such behavior), it is often a visceral, emotional response, and one that is not easy to overcome with reason. I applaud you for recognizing and acknowledging it in your comments.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
I agree that she's not obliged to retroactively discuss navigation alternatives. It would just be nice to see her explain that SkyDrive, for example, is accessible outside of IE. To be honest, if it's just an appended text update at the end of the article, it's probably not going to mean much as most people who read tech blogs have already probably read the article and won't see it again.

I realised a few minutes after posting. Having been on the internet for so long, I can completely see what you mean :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I think people are paying too much attention to this piece. It was clearly presented as an impression, not a thorough review. And as such, it was negative. Granted, she focused on two or three things but that just shows that these things annoyed her so much that she just couldn't go further. Kind of what happens to me when I hold an Android phone - just can't get past the ugliness.

There are worse things happening with WP7 than Molly Wood (I mean the leaks where HTC plans to launch two handsets and Samsung just one), so this review is the least of our worries...
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
This review wasn't written for Teen or some Modern Woman type magazine. It was written by a technology journalist for a technology site. Big difference there.

BTW, I don't understand where everyone is so caught up on automatic, voice guided, turn by turn navigation. iOS does not include that with the built in maps either. Only Android has this built in. Also, there are free WP7 apps that get the job done.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have better navigation via the built-in maps app, but it's not a gaping hole either. It's more like par for the course really.
[Windows Phone 7 General] arturobandini:
I fully agree with this statement. It is really embarassing that Microsoft proposed such a terrible turn-by-turn navigation app.

Regarding Skydrive, it's true that it is accessible outside IE... Nonetheless, I really find Skydrive messy and not intuitive at all. If she was lost, there are some reasons probably.

More generally, why there is no official Skydrive client for PC (like the Dropbox software)? The Skydrive website is a mess. There is no way to delete a batch of pictures, no way to upload a folder, and also there is this silly 100MB limitation.

When I try to upload several files on Skydrive it takes forever, when Dropbox takes only few seconds.

I know that Skydrive is free and Dropbox isn't (beyond 8GB), but I think Microsoft is a big company and shall make some efforts to make Skydrive convenient, easily accessible and user-friendly. Can they?

It's a shame that I could have 25GB at my disposal, and actually never use them because I have no pleasure at all using Skydrive.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I don't care what iOS does or does not offer in the TBT navigation space. I do care that Microsoft promised it in Mango, and failed to deliver. It is a big black eye in an otherwise amazing update to the OS. As for "free" apps that fill the gap, I beg to differ. There are no free voice-guided TBT apps in the WP7 marketplace (gray market sideload apps don't count). And of the paid apps that are in the marketplace, each one has its own problems, although I hope that most of those problems will be addressed when they get their Mango-compatible versions out.

As someone already mentioned, the reason people are so caught up is that many people are looking for TBT navigation that works as well on their phones as dedicated GPS devices work, so they can eliminate those devices (which usually end up requiring a replacement every 2-3 years). That's why I was willing to pay $40 for the Garmin app. It is close, but still not perfect. But the truth is that I am annoyed that I needed to purchase it at all. Mango should have given me something at least close to the Garmin app, but it doesn't. It isn't even remotely close.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
Fully agree with the above regarding Skydrive.
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
That sounds like more of a situation of taking something personal than something that will prevent average users from looking at WP7, which is what we are talking about in the first place. Also, that statement was directed at several people. Some of whom make it sound like not having this built-in is doom and gloom for the platform. It doesn't seem to be hurting iOS, and that is also the point.

And I have an app called Drive On (free from the Marketplace), and the turn by turn worked perfectly for me when I was trying to find the Brazilian Consulate in Miami a couple of weeks ago. It is voice-guided, turn by turn navigation. Yes, it is technically a beta, but has worked flawlessly for me. So, don't make statements about apps not being available, if you don't know that for sure.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
It isn't hurting iOS because they haven't advertised it as a built-in feature of the OS. Microsoft has touted Bing Maps voice guided TBT as a great new feature of Mango. The reality is that it never should have been included at all until the licensing issues could be sorted out. And it will hurt sales at least to some degree, especially of potential Android-WP7 "converts". All you have to do to see that is look at the comments to any of the reviews of the feature coming from the Android fanboys.

As for Drive On, I probably should have phrased my comment as "no usable free TBT apps" ;). But in fairness, it looks like it has undergone a couple of updates since I tried it (when it was completely useless), so maybe it does work better now.
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
I think you are looking at this from a power user standpoint. We all know that most smartphone users are not power users. I agree that the tbt implementation sucks, but I understand it has something to do with licensing.

There will always be things that will be better on one platform vs another. The Android platform has it's own share of downsides. Nobody is claiming that WP7 is perfect, but some people only want to point out a few bad things and ignore the much larger quantity of good things on this platform.

You know what I am talking about! "Oh my God, it doesn't have this or that!" "Epic fail!" Of course, I have heard this for pretty much all previous smartphone platforms as well.

The truth is that Microsoft has brought much faster improvements on this platform than anything that has come before. This suggests that Microsoft is serious about it. This also means that some people will like it and some people will not. If you don't see what you want, wait for the next version or get something else.
[Windows Phone 7 General] thesecondsfade:
She just sounds biased toward Android... but most Android users are. My boss and coworker are constantly complaining about issues with their Android phones (Droid X and Incredible) and every single time (which is almost daily) I tell them to get a WP7... and every single time they say they won't because they love their Android too much. It's the same with Molly Wood. She loves Android so much and has expectations about how she wants her phone to work that deciding to move to a completely new (better) OS is an uphill battle.

We must all remember that all of us WM6.5.x users in this forum were biased against WP7 at first too. We had expectations about how we wanted our phones to work. We came around... so will the public. Maybe not Molly Wood, but in general, people will. A product as good as WP7 won't go unnoticed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
Stockholm Syndrome :D

On a serious note, I loved my Android for it's hackability. As a developer, getting free reign over the device is quite fun, but overall I like the integration and polish of WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I think we're actually mostly in agreement :D. I am just a bit more annoyed with Microsoft for a) "forcing" me to have to spend $40 on the Garmin app (which still needs a few fixes, such as RunUnderLock support :mad:), and b) giving the competition such easy ammunition with the sorry TBT implementation in Mango.
[Windows Phone 7 General] oldpueblo:
This is so true, coming from customizable ROMs with WM6.5 I was not happy with the direction Microsoft was going, so I went with Android. It was great but ultimately I came back to Microsoft because I realized the reason we hack/customize so much is because we're trying to fix stuff. I haven't wanted to do that with WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dkp1977:
Why didn't you purchase Turn By Turn Navigation by GPSTuner? Comes for about $5 and performs a very good job. Especially after the past 2 updates.
[Windows Phone 7 General] wsantiagow:
You are totally wrong. It was bias! She claimed shortcomings on WP7 to be factual when in fact she did not know how to use the fricken phone correctly. Look at the Sky Drive statements...what a stupid so called poweruser. IOS doesnt even have a Turn by Turn. How is she spot on? Tell me please.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I've tried the trial a couple of different times (but not using the latest build), and it had some real issues. It would randomly lose GPS accuracy, sometimes suddenly pushing me over to a street that I was not on, and often when stopped at an intersection - and occasionally as I was moving - it would start arbitrarily rotating the display, causing it to appear that I was facing the side of the road. It also had some difficulty doing recalculations if I was forced to miss a turn due to a road closure.

And, of course, there is the lack of a 3D view, which I admit is not a necessity, but is sure nice to have :).

I have just downloaded the latest version and will give it another try to see how things have improved.
[Windows Phone 7 General] phoneguy 4567:
This was a challenge by MS for people to try WP7 & see what they think, it wasn't an official product review. Molly is an Android user so of course she will use Android as a point of reference. A regular user won't care that it is a licensing issue that makes a feature crappy, or that it will be fixed in a future release. General consumers have no reason to be loyal to any platform or company, & wait around for MS to get it right.

Apple has a cool factor to it that MS doesn't have, & people are willing to overlook shortcomings. It's not fair but that's the market that MS is competing in
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
I still can't help but wonder how much of that lack of "cool factor" comes from the Windows name. I really wish Microsoft would have just called it Metro Phone. That would have been a pretty cool brand name.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ nah. Its Microsoft. Look at the only successful consumer product they have, the XBOX 360. The name "Microsoft " is only seen in tiny letters on the back.

These phones have a huge flag on them indicating Windows, and they automatically start assuming.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wyn6:
The only successful consumer product microsoft has is Xbox 360? Ah. Well, that explains that whole multi-bilion dollar corporation thing, then. ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] phoneguy 4567:
I agree I think there may be something to that. Windows Phone doesn't sound all that different from Windows Mobile, I've heard people use the two names interchangeably in error. I think they should have picked a different name to distance themselves from Windows Mobile, similar to what RIM did when they dropped the Storm name.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vash_h:
I always preach, rtfm! I always do and wp7 is well documented in its manual..

NW I jst nd to download latest mango edition of d manual for my phone, if it exist since mine is 7004..

Sent from my LG Optimus 7
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
No, YOU missed the point, and you're being entirely unreasonable.

The Review was about the OS, not 3rd party apps. If that was the case, she mind as well should have just told the guy to not bother sending the phone since it would be a failure compared to Android and iOS due to their huge advantage in decent apps in the marketplace.

See below reply as it applies to our unreasonable 3rd party app excuse.

The rest of your post isn't even worth responding. It's unreasonable, disingenuous, and generally emotional. Can't converse with that...
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
You're either unintentionally incorrect, or blatantly lying. I'm going to rule in your favor and just assume you had a brain fart...

1. Android has Google Maps

2. Windows Mobile Has/Had Bing Maps

3. Symbian [Nokia] devices have Ovi Maps

4. Blackberries have Blackberry Maps & Blackberry Traffic

5. iOS doesn't have it built-in, but MapQuest is free and has all of that (including voice-guided directions).

All offer Turn by Turn. 4/5 Offer Voice Guided Turn by Turn.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
How? She bashed Android in that "review" as well...
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
It's a known fact that Microsoft makes much of its money from Corporate sales, not consumer sales. So the statement about the XB360 is largely correct. Even Windows, much of the profits come from Volume License Corporate and OEM sales - not direct sales to consumers. That allows them to make a ton of money by selling tons of copies to Manufacturers or corporations for cheap.

Plus, they make a lot of money via support and services to enterprise customers.

The same thing applies to Microsoft Office, Windows, and a lot of their other products (like Visual Studio).

That's why they can give away so much to consumers (DreamSpark, for example) and still make record profits. Their profits do not come predominantly from the consumer market...

Apple is a bit opposite from that. They sale mainly to consumers, but they are trying to sell iOS to Enterprises and Governments now it seems.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
I'm not going to go into some huge point on point response, but here's the point. She's a power user of CNET, a tech site. Her review should of been of what is expected of a Techy Power User, end of story. The point is she never gave it a chance & never took the time to figure a few things out. She mentions there's no Skydrive integration. This is completely false. Did he lie? maybe, maybe not. If not, than she is ignorant of the integration & never took the time to see this. Saying it is only available in in IE. That is misleading to her readers, end of story. Yes TbT is lacking & this has been said, it's a licensing issue, get over it already & move on. Also, 3rd party apps do factor into the equation. iOS doesn't even have a native TbT feature. So, comparing iOS to WP7 TbT features is a contradiction of what you just said on that. If matters for all Mobile OS'es & as for their lack of apps, it's not even a year old yet. So, once again, get over it. Move on to some other point than repeating the same things over & over again. There are quite a few useful apps now, the market has grown a lot & MS is working hard to increase it, aka WebOS Devs.

BTW, she stated it took her 2 weeks to get everything set up on her WP7. What took so long? I had everything set up & all the apps installed I needed in the first 2-3 of having the device, this includes the unboxing of it. I am currently on NoDo, only played with mango a few hrs at most & found all these features she missed. I'm sorry, she don't sound like any kind of power user to me, end of story. Coming from another OS is also no excuse. If you are dedicated to give something a true chance, you make the effort, she didn't. I couldn't even get through her whole review because of all the garbage & trust me I watched a lot of reviews before choosing WP7 when I was looking for my TP2 WM 6.5.X replacement. Thank you & good bye...
[Windows Phone 7 General] the_Enlightened:
In case of lost irony:)

I think you should count windows os here:)
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
nevermind

ten characters
[Windows Phone 7 General] keyboardP:
When you buy a phone, you take into account everything. Android out of the box doesn't come with much. iPhone out of the box doesn't come with much (both relatively speaking). She wasn't just reviewing things out of the box. So no, I haven't missed the point. Tell me this. Why does she compare Spotify and Pandora with Zune Pass? The first two are apps, no? So what you're saying is that she's allowed to compare apps from other platforms to native functions on this platform? Sounds like you're the one being unreasonable.

In what way? Everyone else has managed to converse with it just fine. There's nothing there that's not true, so if you can't muster up a rebuttal, don't bother - but don't claim that it's "unreasonable, disingenuous and generally emotional" as that's just a cop-out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
You can't. Read N8ters post, and you'll see why. Most of Microsoft money comes from other corporations not general consumers. People really don't have a option when buying a new PC.