[Motorola Photon 4G] Yay 4 Juggs:
So i started a thread outlining the lack of real support and the decline of development because of it...here is how it has gone thus far...

Aug 9, 2011 10:18 AM
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

Having owned since day one and have had to return my first device due to countless issues i am starting to feel like this is turning out to be a lame duck device...no hype...no support...no care coming from Sprint and Motorola...hell we cant even create a blur account. I personally feel that developers should be allowed to fix what is broken as we're the first line of defense and offense when it comes to these devices...Shipping with a locked bootloader only shows us that we're just the red headed stepchildren of the machine. Had it been open as android had intended then i can say with 100% CERTAINTY that the known issues would have been resolved day one...but alas...we're left to pick from the scraps and hope for someone to throw us a bone.

--Profanity removed. Please see the house rules on posting appropriately.

Message was edited by: pacojr67 (MOD)

Thanks (0)
Reply

Tags (edit): sprint, bootloader, problems, photon_4g_mb855

techiemoe Landline
techiemoe
20 posts since
Jul 21, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
1. Aug 9, 2011 12:25 PM (in response to yay4juggs)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

What issues, specifically, were you having with your Photon? A lot of us have had quite positive experiences with ours, overall. It could be you just had a bad unit.

As for the open/locked/OSS/nonOSS debate, that's something best left off a tech support forum in my opinion.
Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply
yay4juggs Landline
yay4juggs
10 posts since
Aug 2, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
2. Aug 9, 2011 12:39 PM (in response to techiemoe)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

First off... a lot doesn't equate to all...therefore your comment regarding a positive experience isn't really substantiating. Secondly this device was plagued from the start with inbound/outbound audio issues...battery drain...data mismatch issues..etc...If the device were perfect there wouldn't be a need for a support forum specifically
for it now would there be?

Please understand I am no mook or a noob I have been around for a very long time developing for devices such as this and yes this is the best place to discuss bootloaders as it was Motorola's intention to release devices with unlocked bootloaders and well...they dropped the ball with this one.

And to the MOD I apologize for whatever inappropriate or derogatory comment that was made...I wasn't aware I had cursed at all to be quite honest with out...and if I did, could you please tell me what it was I said?
Edit
Delete
Thanks (0)
Reply
techiemoe Landline
techiemoe
20 posts since
Jul 21, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
3. Aug 9, 2011 12:44 PM (in response to yay4juggs)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

Why the hostility? I don't discount your negative experience, I was simply trying to point out that it might not be a representative example of the product as a whole. I personally find my Photon to be quite a nice device, which is why I was curious to know what issues you might be having so myself or others could try and fix them.

Frankly, based on your response, I'm sorry I tried to help. My mistake.

yay4juggs wrote:

First off... a lot doesn't equate to all...therefore your comment regarding a positive experience isn't really substantiating. Secondly this device was plagued from the start with inbound/outbound audio issues...battery drain...data mismatch issues..etc...If the device were perfect there wouldn't be a need for a support forum specifically
for it now would there be?

Please understand I am no mook or a noob I have been around for a very long time developing for devices such as this and yes this is the best place to discuss bootloaders as it was Motorola's intention to release devices with unlocked bootloaders and well...they dropped the ball with this one.

And to the MOD I apologize for whatever inappropriate or derogatory comment that was made...I wasn't aware I had cursed at all to be quite honest with out...and if I did, could you please tell me what it was I said?

Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply
yay4juggs Landline
yay4juggs
10 posts since
Aug 2, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
4. Aug 9, 2011 12:46 PM (in response to techiemoe)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

I am not hostile in any way and now that it seems i came across as such I feel terrible. I do apologize to you it wasnt my intention to be a that way.
Edit
Delete
Thanks (0)
Reply
mullins_j MotoXprt
mullins_j
2,320 posts since
Jun 18, 2010
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
5. Aug 9, 2011 12:52 PM (in response to yay4juggs)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

@yay4juggs, techiemoe

Let's shake hands and make up. This is a peer-to-peer support site. Sometimes there are misunderstandings, trust me, I've been apart of a few.

But, let just continue on, and see if we can help each other out.

Thanks,

J
Report Abuse
Thanked (2)
Reply
wynand32 StarTac
wynand32
297 posts since
Feb 26, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
6. Aug 9, 2011 1:28 PM (in response to yay4juggs)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

yay4juggs wrote:

If the device were perfect there wouldn't be a need for a support forum specifically
for it now would there be?

Well, Motorola maintains support forums for all of their devices, because none of them are perfect. And heck, support forums aren't just for imperfect devices, they're probably more for imperfect people.

Seriously, though, I do think that there's a subset of folks all experiencing almost exactly the same issues, and so I'm guessing there's a batch of phones that went out with a specific manufacturing defect. There's just too clear a line between people who have the issues, and don't. I'm one who hasn't had a single issue with mine, and I mean that precisely: not a single issue. It's actually one of the first devices I've owned that had none (knocking on a seriously huge piece of wood over here).

If I were you, I'd exchange for a new one, particularly for the audio issue. That seems to be the one that some people specifically are experiencing, and the only fix seems to be to swap it out.
Report Abuse
Thanked (1)
Reply
yay4juggs Landline
yay4juggs
10 posts since
Aug 2, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
7. Aug 9, 2011 1:30 PM (in response to wynand32)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

i am on my second one already exchanged it yesterday at the sprint store...
Edit
Delete
Thanks (0)
Reply
Mark (Forums Manager) Motorola Employee
Mark (Forums Manager)
11,058 posts since
May 22, 2006
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
8. Aug 9, 2011 3:27 PM (in response to yay4juggs)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

This isn't a "MOTOBLUR" phone, the account info is linked behind the scenes. You can't create an account.

Yes this is a support forum. Support to let us know when there is a problem and to share information. I learn all sorts of new things every day. It's an information rich place.

No need to exchange your phone for the audio issue. Just reboot your phone.

If you have particular issues. Join a thread in progress or start a new one if one doesn't exist already. Multi issue threads are not helpful and issues get lost.

Mark

Support Forums Manager
Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply
djspinister Telegraph
djspinister
1 posts since
Aug 10, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
9. Aug 10, 2011 3:54 AM (in response to Mark (Forums Manager))
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

The fact that you think just rebooting the phone fixes everything is beyond me. That is the simple reason why unlocking the bootloader is neccesary so that dev's like yay4 can develop improvments and fix problems so end users like ourselves can use our devices near perfectly. Oh and then so Motorola or whichever company, in this case it is them, can learn from people like yay4 and produce solid fixes through software updates.

Your comment made me register. That is like me telling my customer, "hey, your fuel pump is out, just grab a full gas can, sit in the engine compartment and the faster you pour the faster you go, no worries." It will be fine. LOL

Unreal.

Give us the unlocked BL you promised us. Why not? It's not like your gving us each a semi-truck full of coke. Not the drink.

-DJ
Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply
rcs8104 Telegraph
rcs8104
4 posts since
Aug 4, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
10. Aug 10, 2011 4:57 AM (in response to Mark (Forums Manager))
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

Mark your response to reboot the phone every time is irresponsible of you if you are indeed a manager. I really want this phone but have not purchased due to all the issues especially the no audio issue when making or receiving calls. I'm sure this one problem is keeping many people on the side lines until they find out if it will be resolved. You would better server the people on this forum with letting them know what Motorola actually knows about the problem and when we can expect a fix than telling them to reboot the phone. I would think Motorola and Sprint would want to make the phone do it's primary job work as a phone before fixing any other issue. This is the one issue that is keeping me on the side line. Once you fx this, I plan to purchase ASAP. Please give us some facts about the issue instead of reboot the phone.
Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply
Mark (Forums Manager) Motorola Employee
Mark (Forums Manager)
11,058 posts since
May 22, 2006
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
11. Aug 10, 2011 6:42 AM (in response to rcs8104)
Re: Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

No need to be hostile concerning the no audio issue. We're looking into it.

Rebooting is a work around for the moment. Not a solution.

Calling me irresponsible is out of line. I'm not an engineer. I don't create

software fixes. I work between you and the software and hardware teams to

minimize the pain, as much as I can, when an issue is found or something is

misunderstood. I'm here as your advocate. Let's work together and not

against each other.

Mark

On Aug 10, 2011 4:58 AM, "rcs8104" <motorola-mobile@hosted.jivesoftware.com
Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply
rcs8104 Telegraph
rcs8104
4 posts since
Aug 4, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
12. Aug 10, 2011 7:11 AM (in response to Mark (Forums Manager))
Re: Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

Mark, I wasn't trying to be hostile and I'm sorry you took it that wasy. I really want this phone and I'm buying it at full price but I'm not going to buy it if it can't work as a phone. If you work between us and software and hardware teams then give us some info on what they have found and when we might expect an upgrade. I really don't care about the other issues this phone is having and won't buy until the phone works everytime without a reboot as I am dependent on that feature.
Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply
Mark (Forums Manager) Motorola Employee
Mark (Forums Manager)
11,058 posts since
May 22, 2006
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
13. Aug 10, 2011 9:02 AM (in response to rcs8104)
Re: Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

@rcs8104

I understand the issue is frustrating and I hope it is resolved sooner than later. I'm the intermediate person by way of sharing information that you provide back with the product teams and advocating on your behalf. I give any info that I am allowed to provide. Often I am not necessarily told the root cause of an issue and the times where that info is shared it is often too technical for the average person. It's rare that we share what we find out when investigating a customer complaint and when we do have such information I am always forthcoming in providing it. As far as when you might expect an update. I don't speculate here as that does a disservice to you if it isn't accurate. When I know something official I'll provide it. I know there are those who are eager to have it working properly and there are others who are considering purchasing the phone and will base their purchase decision on the resolution of certain things. I don't blame you here. Could you face the issue... Potentially, yes... It's not guaranteed. Regardless we want you to be confident in our products. As a work around some of the users in the other thread on this topic hae been turning their phone off momentarily before they put it on the charger for the night and have had success. Not a solution but it's getting them by until a solution can be provided.

FYI. Update is a bug fix or a software change that stays with the same Android version 2.3.3 -> 2.3.4 where as an upgrade is a change in android version 2.2.2 to 2.3.4. Just wanted to make sure you understood our terminology.

Mark

Support Forums Manager
Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply
yay4juggs Landline
yay4juggs
10 posts since
Aug 2, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
14. Aug 10, 2011 9:21 AM (in response to Mark (Forums Manager))
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

Mark

I understand you have a position to maintain and are censored but come on lets call it like it is...Efforts to troubleshoot have failed miserably. Had it been like I suggested in my OP this would have been resolved a lot sooner than 13 days after discovery. It is not a hardware failure it is a software failure and most importantly a MOTO failure. You say this isn't a blur device yet the base of the OS is latent with blur and blur like features yet you still wont believe this is blur device. MOTO knew blur was faulty from the start that's why they pushed a dumb down version for us to avoid calling it MOTOBLUR. We may not all be engineers but I know for a fact we all aren't that dumb... you can paint a pile of poop gold but it's still just a pile of poop is it not? This device alone screams for dev's to actually fix what is wrong with it. As far as a maintenance release...I have the MR3 directly from MOTO please pay close attention to the following information as it pertains to your previous statements.

Filename: 1FF-sunfire-user-2.3.4-4.5.1A-1_SUN-154_MR-3-CM-release-keys-signed-Sprint-US.s bf

Creation Date: 07/29/2011 21:22:47

File size: -1854871739

RAM DL Version: N / A

Bootloader Version: N / A

Platform: 4G TEGRA

Please be aware of the creation date...2 WHOLE DAYS PRIOR TO DEVICE LAUNCH. Do you not find it odd that a maintenance release was already created before the phone was released to the general public? Ready to call a spade a spade yet?

Mark (Forums Manager) Motorola Employee
Mark (Forums Manager)
11,058 posts since
May 22, 2006
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
15. Aug 10, 2011 9:48 AM (in response to djspinister)
Re: Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

First post and you make the statement that I think that rebooting the phone fixes everything. Not sure where you got that idea. Need to read more of my posts I think.

As far as the unlocked bootloader that is dependent on where the service provider will allow. I think an unlocked bootloader is a good idea but there are multiple things that need to come together to make it possible and a good solution. Some ROMs are better than others. I've used ROMs before and while some are good others are not so it's not a slam dunk. ROM devs and staff software engineers don't have a level playing field as they don't both work to the same requirements/challenges/expectations. So while yay4 might have talent cooking ROMs I don't think it's fair to compare him/her to staff software engineer.

Yes we're working on a bootloader solution. It wasn't promised for any particular device, though I hope it will be picked up on recently released products though it will only be for products where the service provider will allow.

Thanks for joining even if it was in a moment of misunderstanding. Glad you're passionate.

Mark

Support Forums Manager

djspinister wrote:

The fact that you think just rebooting the phone fixes everything is beyond me. That is the simple reason why unlocking the bootloader is neccesary so that dev's like yay4 can develop improvments and fix problems so end users like ourselves can use our devices near perfectly. Oh and then so Motorola or whichever company, in this case it is them, can learn from people like yay4 and produce solid fixes through software updates.

Your comment made me register. That is like me telling my customer, "hey, your fuel pump is out, just grab a full gas can, sit in the engine compartment and the faster you pour the faster you go, no worries." It will be fine. LOL

Unreal.

Give us the unlocked BL you promised us. Why not? It's not like your gving us each a semi-truck full of coke. Not the drink.

-DJ

Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply

Mark (Forums Manager) Motorola Employee
Mark (Forums Manager)
11,058 posts since
May 22, 2006
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
16. Aug 10, 2011 10:04 AM (in response to yay4juggs)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

@yay4juggs

How do you troubleshooting has failed miserably? There has been a lot of useful information gathered here on the forum. A lot more information than you'd get from a store rep or call center notes. A combination of the two is instrumental to providing a sound solution.

Yes the phone does have many MOTOBLUR attributes but it is not a "MOTOBLUR" device as there is no login. Dumbed down version? Nope just less visible. No one is calling anyone dumb.

We're always improving our software. The software development cycle doesn't stop the day launch software is approved for device launch... It continues like it should so that things can be fixed as close as they can to launch in the event that something didn't make it into launch software. I think this is really in the customer advantage. So no I don't call it odd if it were true. Software created two days before wouldn't be pushed to your phone right away... There is a lot of testing that goes on before it makes it to your phone.

Be glad to continue this discussion where I have something to add but the tone isn't going in a direction that I want to continue. Up to you.

Mark

Support Forums Manager

Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply

yay4juggs Landline
yay4juggs
10 posts since
Aug 2, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
17. Aug 10, 2011 10:06 AM (in response to Mark (Forums Manager))
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

Don't ever insult my intelligence or integrity because you never know, I may actually know more than your software engineers...it's already proven I know a lot more than you...

Edit
Delete
Thanks (0)
Reply

Mark (Forums Manager) Motorola Employee
Mark (Forums Manager)
11,058 posts since
May 22, 2006
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
18. Aug 10, 2011 10:10 AM (in response to yay4juggs)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

yay4juggs

Proven how? I don't share everything I know. Again I share everything I'm allowed to share.

Mark

Support Forums Manager

Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply

Mark (Forums Manager) Motorola Employee
Mark (Forums Manager)
11,058 posts since
May 22, 2006
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
19. Aug 10, 2011 10:22 AM (in response to yay4juggs)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

Again.. I'm here working as your advocate. It's counter productive to be hostile. In none of my previous posts was insulting anyone's intelligence. I was aware of your posts elsewhere before you joined our forum.

Do me a favor and update your forum profile to inclued your MEID serial number i see you have your IMEI number in there right now. *#06# on your dialer to see it.

Mark

Support Forums Manager

Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply

yay4juggs Landline
yay4juggs
10 posts since
Aug 2, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
20. Aug 10, 2011 1:24 PM (in response to Mark (Forums Manager))
Re: Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

I know it has failed miserably as I personally went thru every possible step to troubleshoot the problem [removed]. Initially it was thought to be a provisioning error so sprint would attempt to reprogram the device manually...when that failed they came up with try pulling the battery to reconnect to towers to see if you can make calls again...that was putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm. the fact of the matter is we should not have to take the battery out of our device just to use it's most primal function...to make a phone call! When it comes to replacing a device Sprint requires it's tech's to troubleshoot before replacing to hopefully fix the problem and avoid a costly device exchange. Well that didn't work...(keeping tabs? that's 3 failed steps to rectify the situation) so they decided ok...just exchange device and hope the device isn't plagued by the same problems as the previous device. BTW that's number failure #4. Starting to see a pattern here? The device is defective OOB yet we're not allowed to fix it and MOTO hasn't a clue...If they did they wouldn't direct you to give canned responses like "pull the battery." [removed]

Edited for personal attack. Please talk about yourself, not others, and help us keep this a civil site per our site rules.

Message was edited by: Matt (Forums Manager)

Edit
Delete
Thanks (0)
Reply

yay4juggs Landline
yay4juggs
10 posts since
Aug 2, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
21. Aug 10, 2011 10:42 AM (in response to Mark (Forums Manager))
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

Why is my meid important to you? You dont need that information to resond to message boards.

Edit
Delete
Thanks (0)
Reply

Mark (Forums Manager) Motorola Employee
Mark (Forums Manager)
11,058 posts since
May 22, 2006
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
22. Aug 10, 2011 11:07 AM (in response to yay4juggs)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

1. MOTOXPRTs are not employees. They are consumer volunteers just like you that spend countless hours assisting people on the forum. There troubleshooting is largely not directed by Motorola. I think of possible things to try to see if things are improved but I don't ever claim to think of everything. I see the suggestion to try Sprint only as a valuable step to determine if it had something to do with roaming. Not sure that I ever suggested re-provisioning the device, though if the phone has service I wouldn't think that would be necessary. Not sure if you are referring to Sprint or someone here concerning pulling battery. I've found that pulling the battery is unecessary. Powering the phone off and back on is sufficient. Pulling the battery is overkill. Again doing this isn't ideal but it gets it working until a permanent solution can be created. We don't want you to exchange the device if it's unlikely to be resolved by doing so. Wastes your time if you'll just see it again and adds to your aggrivation. I don't like to even suggest resets if I can avoid it because it requires a user to set up their device again and it eliminates a problem that may find its way back on the device. Avoiding the inevitable.

Are all devices experiencing this issue. No. I myself have experienced it one time. That time I happen to make my first call of the day in a location I am not normally at. I have not made a call in that location at any time since then to see if it could be replicated.

From your post on another site you suggest the solution is already found which indicates our engineers do have a clue. From the software you mentioned there are likely several other versions following that software you claim to have that may have numerous other fixes.

No one directed me on telling anyone to pull the battery so I'm not sure where you got that idea. So it's not a canned response and if it was I would push back and ask what the benefit to pulling the battery is over just powering the phone off.

Serial number is important as we can do some proactive investigation prior to responding on the forums to any given issue. It helps us help you quicker. So you are correct, it isn't necessary to respond but it does help users be helped.

Mark

Support Forums manager

Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply

yay4juggs Landline
yay4juggs
10 posts since
Aug 2, 2011
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
23. Aug 10, 2011 11:17 AM (in response to Mark (Forums Manager))
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

see there you go...questioning my integrity...I claim to have? yeah...I HAVE...including the final release just put out to it's engineers...as far as providing my meid...not happening... that is how phones get cloned and all hell breaks loose...trust me i have been there.

Edit
Delete
Thanks (0)
Reply

Mark (Forums Manager) Motorola Employee
Mark (Forums Manager)
11,058 posts since
May 22, 2006
MOTOROLA PHOTON™ 4G
Sprint/Nextel
United States
24. Aug 10, 2011 11:30 AM (in response to yay4juggs)
Development of the Photon 4g suffers because of the manipulation of the Carrier and Manufacturer...

@yay4juggs

Matt nor I will clone your phone. No one else on the forum will have access to it. Your profile information is safely secured behind our https:// site. If you're really concerned send me a PM with your MEID number.

How can I trust you you refuse to be helped? Your restrictive in providing information to attempt to help you.

Mark

Support Forums Manager

Report Abuse
Thanks (0)
Reply