yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Please do, I'd love to see it. Maybe I'll work on one myself if I'm not too lazy lol. It really does sound like a good idea. I can see what ScottSummers means about folders & even categories for that matter, but this "Favorite Hub" really sounds like an innovative & metro friendly way to handle this issue without hindering the UI/System. I see it as a sort of second Start Screen with smaller tiles in a grid layout. Instead of 2 across, maybe 3 or 4 across. Probably 3, 4 might be too cluttered.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
Fair enough, but it'll be a "fault" when MS makes the change, i.e. enough people ***** about it.

Sure, like I said I have no beef with that.

And what of it? I actually don't think reasonable people would take offense to that and if they did I don't think it would be so bad that they'd get in a frenzy over, especially from some random person speaking on a message board.

ETA: btw, here's a question. What happens when the Favorites hub gets crowded?
[Windows Phone 7 General] boredtoday:
Why is RoboDad not banned yet? He's all over the wp7 forums obviously just trolling everyone.

I know it could be argued that he's only voicing out valid points to better the OS, but seriously, check him out. He's a troll fanboy of any OS cept wp7.

just saying
[Windows Phone 7 General] dkp1977:
OO Seriously? Maybe he isn't banned because of him posting mostly if not always in a very constructive and reasonable manner? I've seen many people around these forums that may truly be called fanboys and may even deserve bans for inappropriate behaviour. But RoboDad is definitely neither of them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
My ideas for a Favorites Hub, don't mind the glass icons. Just what I had handy to create this mock-up. 2 versions, 1 with a background as Games & Office both have background images & 1 without to be more metro.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
It depends on how it is implemented. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most people have a much easier time remember how to find things by position/location than they do by name. In my (dream app) Favorites Hub, you decide the ordering of the apps (using the exact same drag-to-reorder paradigm as the start screen), and you would even have a couple of other options (that I will explain in more detail when I post my mock-up), all designed to make it quick and easy to find your favorite app.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Well than there's just the, "you can't please everyone," but the "Favorites Hub" would fix the problem for the majority, which is the point.

A fault is anything that doesn't meet the expectation of the majority or fit into the overall theme of the item in question. As WP7 overall theme is "get on with your life", spending excessive time thumbing through the applist is against that theme. I've said this multiple times. I don't know how else to explain this to you.

Insults are not constructive criticism & against XDA ToS. Any derogatory term is an insult & everybody has the right to take offense towards it. They are not on topic & should not be tolerated in any forum. That is what makes a troll. Not voicing your concerns/opinions. We are adults & should act as such. Treating each other with respect.

EDIT: I think I've said what I had to in this thread. Secondly, it's nothing against you specifically Scott, it's just that there's a lot of people constantly bashing any new idea & sometimes resorting to insults when they have nothing better to say.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
I just noticed this.

You're reading way too much into my comment. At the time I wrote that I had no such thought. What Apple did when it first debuted the iPhone was great when it came out. Hell I didn't mind it because it was similar to a desktop you see on a computer. Totally made sense to me. But this is now, and after seeing people I know buying tons and tons of apps with nothing but pages and pages deep of them, I asked myself how in the EFF does anyone navigate that mess.

So really it wasn't a comment about inferiority or superiority but rather why turn a product that MS clearly wanted to differentiate from the rest, back into what their competitors are offering. Granted, it could make transitions easier but arguably that would've made adoption even lower.

No, I think the changes in Mango are great. I don't know how you interpreted that.

Yeah, I can see how they underestimated the app market a bit, but I don't think the jump list or search capability prove that. Those were in Zune. Really it's more likely they did anticipate it, especially with the implementation of Hubs and certain features that are native to the OS.

Also, I wouldn't say they accommodate all users' apps needs, but I think a good majority would with the exception you and a few others on here are on the fringe.

Good for you.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
Fair enough.

Hence, the jumplists, searching, and voice command launching...

Well then that would leave just about anything being taken offense to. I don't think I've been unnecessarily harsh in my words or my tone. Nor do I think I have attacked anyone directly in a manner meant to blatantly call them stupid.

What makes trolls trolls is that they want to rile people up. I have no intention or care for this. I'm simply making a counter argument.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Those do help, but assuming someone is "forgetful", because they don't remember one specific apps name is not cool. Especially when developers have a habit of using bad names for their apps in an attempt to be original. Take HTC apps for example, some of their apps start with HTC while others do not. Searching your apps & voice command can be very tricky if the name has nothing to do with what the app does. I don't have these problems, but many, aka the majority, do.

No this wouldn't, voicing your opinion is one thing, using a derogatory term is another. While, yes, your terms weren't all that bad, they still have no place in an adult discussion.

See this mod posting...
[Windows Phone 7 General] conantroutman:
I see no reason for this thread to descend into yet another petty argument.....

If your not of the opinion that the List needs some form of grouping option then why are you even in this thread??

Thats not to say that you cannot express your opinion on the subject but if your "opinion" is nothing more than a flippant comment IN BIG BOLD CAPITALS, then its not really valid.

Lets be civil to one another please.....
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
+1

the op asked for a way to find applications, or group applications in pages of association:

frequently used

infrequently used

blah category

foo category

i've seen phones with 300+ applications on them, without decent naming relevance. it's very annoying to find that seldom used app that happens to be poorly named. it would be a great idea to allow users to have 'fields' or 'pages' of their own picked applications.

a catalogue of user-specified applications could be:

work apps

home apps (entertainment?)

outside apps (geocaching?)

health apps

yes, it would look like icons on a field. yes, it would be very similar to android or iphones grids of icons. yes, folks might love/hate it, but they do not HAVE TO USE IT if they choose not to. i've done this on android, and it works very very nicely for different activities. a small list of 5-20 applications dedicated to a particular activity removes a ton of clutter, and decreases time-to-find.

there, i guess i've supported the OP's wish for a user defined catalogue of applications, but sadly do not know of a way to do it, on wp7. it would be a good addition to the UI, for folks that would like to use it.

side note:

using a particular operating system on a phone/computer/watch/car dashboard and liking it is as easy as being positive. 'hating' a particular os/car/truck/whatever instead of enjoying what you like is pointless.

nice thread, maybe just needs some sprucing up.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sayonical:
I think a good solution would be to implement app groups the way people groups are done. The groups would stay at the top of the list where you name as you please and add apps as you wish. You can pin groups to the main screen. You get the same live tile options as in the people groups with the main group tiles reflecting the updates of apps within the tile. I am not sure how this could work logically in terms of code, but it might be a good compromise that's above and beyond simple folders.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Strike_Eagle:
I think most people, who love some apps, they will remember their names and how to use them deep inside their brain. I have never had any problem in finding my fav apps in the long apps list. It is even easier with mango.

But your idea is clear, i get it. A favorite hub for your favorite apps. But i think it is not a good idea when you have to go to a hub to see your favorite apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] PG2G:
I think that some form of app organization grouping will be coming in the next updates. The app market is fairly small right now, so its not really that useful (don't know how the hell some of you have hundreds of apps). As things grow it will become an issue and they will address it, just like Apple did.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eric12341:
GUACÁLA!!! sorry but that concept looks butt nasty,kinda like android and iOS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Eric, do me a favor, don't respond to any of my posts. You have been warned by mods multiple times for your childish behavior.

Plus, XDA is an English forum & ToS state to use English.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
That's a good idea too. Didn't think about it earlier as I haven't really played with the people groups or mango for that matter. Waiting for Mango to get some decent homebrew.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eric12341:
wasn't trying to be disrespectful, just sayin. where does it say to use English?
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
http://xdaforums.com/announcement.php?f=608
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Couldn't have been said any better.
[Windows Phone 7 General] eric12341:
I think the tile notifications are just fine for that purpose, I haven't missed any notifications that way . so it's far short of ridiculous.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Tile counter notifications are useless for letting you know what the notification is.

All I know is that I have a Facebook notification.

On platforms like Android/WebOS there is a Notification Cache/Tray that will tell me "Soandso sent you a message on facebook" or "Soandso posted on your facebook wall."

That goes for other Apps. In a Twitter App, it can be a Mention or a Direct Message. A counter doesn't let you know which one it is.

Counters work great for things like Missed Calls, Emails, etc.

They are terrible for things like Social Networks and more complex apps because it's just a number with absolutely no context.

In short, you are completely misunderstanding what the issue is. I hope this clears it up for you.

It's not just about the number of notifications, it's about allowing the user to use the device more efficiently. You cannot prioritize notifications when there is no context, and without a Notification Cache this will remain the case. WP7 is the only mainstream smartphone OS without one. Yes, it stands out. It can kill usability (and/or efficiency in using the device) for some people. Live Tiles can NOT replace that. Sorry.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
100% agreed
[Windows Phone 7 General] Aphasaic2002:
Livetiles and Toasts (notifications) are fundamentally different concepts on WP7.

The main issue is that when you receive a toast, it disappears from your phone in 20 seconds. Therefore what if you missed it?

You're arguing the Livetile will keep you informed, but what if:

1) That app that sent the toast isn't pinned to your homepage. You will never know you received a notification.

2) What if the Livetile isn't programmed to show notifications? It shouldn't have to be - like i say, two different concepts.

3) As mentioned above, counters give no context and no time information. How do I know which to read first?

Without some sort of cache, toasts are currently useless. A simple solution would be to make them persistent; i.e. they don't disappear after 20 seconds, like SMS message notifications. But then of course everytime you turn on your phone, you'll have to wade through a bunch of messages.

I think someone on here suggested before - swipe left from the home-screen for a page of toast notifications, integrated with the current "notifications" under the "Me" tile. That would be simple and effective.

Finally having a toast tray would allow the email client and built in social media readers to send toasts when they receive new messages / notifications. This would fix the inconsistent way the build in apps notify the user.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
Well I guess remembering/forgetting them is your own problem then because at the end of the day it's not happening any time soon until you get Joe Belfiore's attention.

Hmm. I just typed out in notepad without looking 33 out of 35 items in my list, including the defaults WP7 has in there. I'd think no person can memorize 50+ apps unless they've been huffing glue. If you call bull****, whatever. It can be done.

As for browsing the list, yeah I do look at it because that's how I open them. I could use the voice feature but I don't need to because I know where in the list the apps I need are in the first place, assuming they aren't already on my Start screen.

Aside from that a Favorites apps hub or Groups function for apps isn't too shabby.

BTW, I always love these kind of threads where people find it oh so painful to use "less efficient" means of accessing info.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
I believe you know them all. the problem here is there are 2 types of people. those who remember by names/text/whatever & those who remember by icon/images/landmarks. The jumplist is good for type 1, but inefficient for type 2.

As a developer, it is "your" job to make your product work for all users. Not just one type of user. So, yes, it is "less efficient" for for a decent % of the population. There is no way around this. This is not argument or debate. It just is what it is. If WP7 is to succeed. MS needs to be innovative & enhance the OS for everyone, not just you. Also, guess what, what is being suggested would help people while those who find it useless don't need to use it & will never notice it other than the extra "PIN" option on the menu.

I've said this before, this whole "if it works for me, it should be good for everyone," attitude just has no place. Everyone is different & it's time people learn to accept that instead of criticizing each other.

I just don't get what some people have against innovation & enhancing something with a new feature. If everyone thought like that, humanity would have never went into space never mind landed on the moon. We wouldn't have computers, internet, smartphones, tablets, etc. Oh the horse is a good mode of transportation, we don't need cars/trains/planes/boats/etc. This is basically what you are saying.

Now, all that being said, to get this implemented. You need to start a petition & get signatures of those who want this & than submit it to MS. Making a post on XDA won't necessarily catch MS's attention.

And for those who say, don't like it, get a Android or iPhone. What, do you want WP7 to fail by scaring everyone away from WP7 just because you disagree with them?!?!?
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
You can put your condescending quotes around "less efficient" all day, but that still doesn't prove that your perspective is right and ours is wrong (as you continue to imply, over and over and over, ad nauseum).

For me, the app list, even with the jump list and search feature, is far, far less efficient than a favorites hub. If that really irks you that much, well, you'll just have to learn to deal with it, because it is true.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottSUmmers:
Ok, last post by me on this matter. Like I said before I'm not adverse to the idea of Favorites hub or a Groups hub. In fact, I'm totally for it. It's not like I can't see the use of it.

Nor do I really fully have the "if it's good for me, it should be good for you attitude." Otherwise I wouldn't be saying I agree with.

It's just I find how it funny how people want certain features so badly but yet still stick with the OS. If it bothers you that much then make a decision. It it's negligible and you can live with it for now, that's cool too. I mean, I get it, you guys wish WP7 could do more and I understand that feeling, but if that's the case hit up wpdev.uservoice.com and get people to vote on it. Cliff Simpkins at the very least is watching that thing. I mean do we even know if they come to this part of XDA? Or what about Brandon Watson's twitter? or Joe Belfiore's?

Anyways fellas, on with your discussion. I won't pester you guys anymore.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
That's your problem.

And that's why it's probably a good idea that you're exiting the discussion.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Totally agreed, I love WP7 & think it's the best Mobile OS. I am never going to use Android/iPhone. This doesn't mean I can't see what could use enhancing in the OS or any bugs that may or may not exist.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
In Mango you will have apps search by/with letters, just like in contacts.

I think it should solve the problem with too long list.

However it would be great to be able to create custom Hubs of apps, further exploring MS idea.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Aphasaic2002:
Funnily enough, I knew someone would reply and try and prove me wrong!

Thing is, there are two cases here:

1) You remember them all now, but how about when you have 50 apps? Or 100? Or 200? at some point you will reach a limit where you can't remember them. This limit will occur for everyone at different stages..

2) What about apps that you use infrequently? For example; When I first got my Windows 7 Phone I found an app which is a suite of tools, like spirit level, ruler, calculator, accelerometer, dice roll etc. I found it cool/useful and kept it on my phone for the future BUT I haven't used it since - and I can't for the life of me remember what it's called. I will have to browse to find it - and I think this is a fairly normal case.

I *know* I have a tool suite and a currency converter and a translation app on my phone, but I don't remember the exact names (and spellings) of any of them as I don't use them more than once a week.

If you use all of your apps regularly enough that you can remember them all by heart, then this thread simply doesn't apply to you.

No it won't.

Please carefully read my reply to find out why it doesn't address the issue at all:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=16164012&postcount=64
[Windows Phone 7 General] tboy2000:
I am totally for folders in app list. Have been since day one. Its all about time. Scrolling and scrolling takes ages. If you know you want to launch say a gym app but don't remember what the name is, you could quickly tap on the health folder and easily spot the app you want amongst half a dozen as opposed to scrolling through a long list.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wyn6:
Take this post in jest because it is. If you read through this thread it's actually pretty funny. It's funny how lazy we've all gotten. I mean, how long does it really take to scroll your start screen or your app list? A few seconds at the most?

That's sad that we need things to be faster, more convenient. Pretty soon we're gonna need everything we do to take less than a second to accomplish.

Oh dear gawd! Traveling takes too long. Beam me next door, Scotty.

Microwave schmicrowave! Where's that insta-oven thing from Back to the Future II?

I need artists to get their songs under 15 seconds if they want me to listen to 'em.

I realize those are gross, perhaps humorous perhaps not, over-exaggerations but we're talking about shaving a second or two off searching for an app, if that. A second or two. Kinda funny when ya think about it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drkfngthdragnlrd:
Guess what, time is money. Now while it may only save 2-5 secs at a time, that adds up when you multiply it by how many times you do it in a day/week/month/year. You are looking at it in small scale. You need to see it in the large scale. For major corporations, a few second shaved off of one task can save millions, if not billions in labor costs. Not to mention, how would it look if everything you do on your WP7 took a few seconds to do. People would see that & be like, "wow, how'd you do that so fast." This is a major selling point in the end. If you're trying to sell a friend on WP7, you don't want them seeing you thumbing through lists to find what you are trying to show them. They'd just yawn, turn around, & walk away.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Aphasaic2002:
Ok good point, but it's really not about laziness. It's more about efficiency:

1) Phones are used for quick tasks. Pull out your phone > check email > done. Compare phone to a PC use-case; no one minds taking 10 seconds searching through "Program Files" on Windows XP because the job they're going to be doing is probably going to take a long time comparatively; 10 minutes, a few hours or more. The few seconds to start the task are negligible.

Now compare that to WP7 - it takes 10 seconds for me to find a currency converter program, so that I can do a conversion that takes 3 seconds. That to me is totally backwards and broken..

2) Like it or not, users expect instant access to programs / tasks on their phones. If it is faster and easier to find apps on Android and IPhone, users will prefer those systems - WP7 has lost. Scroll lists need the users 100% concentration to search through so are a really bad way of presenting large amounts of information; sorry but that's a User-Interface 101 FACT.

3) I have lost count of the number of people on here (and other forums) who say they prefer WP7 over Android because of its smoothness, and lack of lag. People are dropping Android phones due to *a few milliseconds* of slowdown during screen transitions - are those people lazy? No, they just want a nice seemless user experience, same as me..
[Windows Phone 7 General] xflier:
I don't know others, but I don't like folders, hubs, or any categorizations which requires human's organization. i don't want to maintain the categorizations any more. I have a wp7 device, a ios device, and an android device. I did do organization. It is just painful.

I like the simplicity of wp7. 200 apps? I don't even have 200 apps in my laptop. We are just talking about a phone now. Even with 200 apps, the search functionality in applist is good enough. By typing 1 or 2 letters of apps, I could find the apps, even some letters in the middle, I could find the app I wanted very fast.

Let keep the simplicity, and the simplest, the better ;-)
[Windows Phone 7 General] RoboDad:
And again, I will say that it is none of your business how many apps someone else has on their phone, period. Further, your assumption about how well the jump list and search features might work in that scenario only shows that you don't understand the issue. More taps (which the search feature requires) is never more efficient.

You don't want folders, groups or hubs? Great. Don't use them. But don't tell me or anyone else what they can or cannot want. This kind of myopic, elitist attitude is getting kind of sickening. And if it is as prevalent at Microsoft as it is here, then it will drive people away from WP7, especially if/when the marketplace passes 100,000 apps, and more and more people get frustrated trying to find them on their phones.