yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Accessories] kirior:
Thx for the lesson
[General Accessories] Blackn3r:
Original Here >> www . techatplay . com /?p=61

April 7th, 2007

Author: Paul Mah
[General Accessories] pudgybunnyBry:
This is a lot of very useful information. I can guarantee that I have always been misinformed on two out of three of these tips. Though really do hardly ever let my batteries discharge completely, and only remove my batter from my laptop when absolutely necessary. Still, nice to know so I know what not to do anymore!
[General Accessories] Reign255:
Very good post and you are absolutely right about everything. Leaving the battery in a laptop for long periods of time with the computer being on generates an enormous amount of heat and kills cells within the battery. One thing I'd like to mention, however, is that you should always leave a lithium-ion based battery between 40-60% to have the longest battery life; 20-80% is a realistic range you should keep the battery in and is the next best thing. You never want to fully charge a battery, just like you should not let the battery die (cycling the battery would be something that should happen though if you are not getting the best of your battery life). Again, try not to have your battery passed 80% and not below 20%.

Another good tip is to not let your lithium-ion based devices (such as a GPS) in your car when it is hot out (or at all) because it will get hotter in your car than outside, your device's battery will be outside of its operating temperature and it will have cells that die out which will decrease the lifespan of your device's battery.
[General Accessories] Xenova:
Thanks for the sharing guy. That means u never charge ur phone until full? u plug off middle of charging (when it about to reach 80%)? This is true, but i hardly implement it because normally i leave it charged overnight. But the best time i can do is to minimize the time my battery will remain at high percentage (90 - 100%). :)
[General Accessories] temo2k:
Good advice but it's hard to be diligent, and like most people my phone charges overnight.
[General Accessories] crip:
nice info mang.
[General Accessories] mr.hary:
nice info. many people didnt know this
[General Accessories] Reign255:
That's correct; I TRY not to charge my phone passed 80%, but that's obviously hard to do when you need your battery to last all day with use anyway. I try not to ever charge it overnight either.
[General Accessories] Smiffyboots:
Excellent reading, thank you for your time and effort in posting this.
[General Accessories] pelopor:
good info. this is the first time i read this. where did you find this info? any reference links?
[General Accessories] neol:
informative post & I assumed draining battery fully helped in longer battery life. :o
[General Accessories] GodSlayer:
It actually seems like a rip-off afer reading thiss post XD
[General Accessories] Tarek82:
Thank you for the information.
[General Accessories] Xenova:
Will lower voltage charger like 3v with slower charge rate improve the battery lifespan?
[General Accessories] Xenova:
Because currently i'm using a kernel which we can modify the charging rate (speed) when it is on USB. I wanted to slow down the charging rate, since I normally charge it overnight. So dont really care it take long time
[General Accessories] xaccers:
Muf, 5v is the supply voltage, not the charging voltage.

If you actually knew anything about batteries firstly you'd know that you can't charge a 4.2v battery (go on, show your ignorance by stating that the phone's battery is 3.7v, please make a fool of yourself) with 3v.

Secondly, you'd know that the charging circuit steps the voltage down to the charging voltage of 4.2v (otherwise, how can you charge your phone off a computer's USB port which is 5v?)
[General Accessories] lufc:
Please Keep this Thread CLEAN and on Topic with no *****ING Thanks

Be Warned:)
[General Accessories] xaccers:
Still waiting for you to explain how you can charge a battery to 4.2V with 3V to show that you aren't giving harmful information.
[General Accessories] springy:
The New addon needs to be reworded, it doesn't make sense

This is spoil the battery because the corrosion activities are relatively high when the battery is in high voltage/ full charge.

Plus it contradicts itself. The New addon says when charge, please take off charge and use it, however point 3 relating to laptop batteries says leave it in... I know what you mean but I think it needs to be reworded :)
[General Accessories] Xenova:
When I unplug my phone from charger. The mV drop from 4199mV to 4135mV. Then leave it there it will back to 418XmV. Is this normal?
[General Accessories] boogor:
go on youtube and search about lithium ion battery explosion. You must be surprised
[General Accessories] TheRealNap0le0n:
i can show this to my dad... he thinks running his evo till its dead "helps"
[General Accessories] xaccers:
3V will never charge the cell but due to the current constantly flowing through it it will decrease the life of the cell.

Additionally being kept at 3V, should the supply be intrrrupted you risk damaging the cell by dropping it below the safe discharge level.

I have 5 years experience working directly with lithium cells to make my own custom batteries.

You do not have to make a cell explode in order to kill it, discharging them too far can be enough which is why I provide my clients with low voltage cutoff switches or alarms.

What you plug into the wall is a power adaptor which converts the mains voltage to a safe 5V for the phone.

The charger is in the phone and takes the 5V supply and steps it down further.
[General Accessories] reinaldo4253:
woa

nice 1. Good information is always welcome.
[General Accessories] thattypicalnerd:
I didn't know that Lithium Ion batteries died faster when exposed to heat... I think I'm actually going to pull the battery out on AC power, since the laptop that I have gets REALLY hot near that area.
[General Accessories] xaccers:
Surely you know that you can get multi adaptor PSUs able to provide a variety of voltages?

Lets give you a history lesson shall we?

In post #193 you stated that a PSU supplying 5V is wrong, best let the mobile manufacturers know of your little secret then, considering that they've agreed to use micro USB ports to take 5V as an industry standard.

In post #194 you stated that using a 3V supply would improve the battery's lifespan, when it will not.

In post #198 you showed how little you understood battery technology by failing to see that the 5V supply is stepped down to the charging voltage within the phone.

In post #200 you claimed the supply voltage is 230V, well if you believe that you're supplying 230V to your phone then there's not much help for you.

I rest my case.

You may get some strange kick out of giving mis-information, personally I'd rather give people facts.
[General Accessories] karni1:
Thank you so much for your brilliant post!

I feel smarter :C
[General Accessories] xaccers:
Where have I said 5V is supplied to the battery?
[General Accessories] ltdanno360:
they blow up! lmao
[General Accessories] xaccers:
Perhaps if you actually read what I posted, you'd understand.

Anyway I'm done with you.
[General Accessories] scyld:
I'm working on my PhD in materials science... but not in any sub-field related to batteries :p

Thanks for the info! I thought that my Li+ battery practices were "bad" (keeping my battery in my notebook when on AC power, recharging my phone even when the battery is not near completely used up, etc.), but apparently they aren't!

So, here's my question: with regards to preventing the battery from becoming overly depleted, what % is too low? I have used my battery on my phone until it hits 8%. Is that too low? It has a capacity of 1750 mAh, which is pretty much standard for phones these days, well at least for smartphones.

If it's possible to give a rough estimate of what charge levels could be damaging to a battery, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

EDIT: After looking into this a little bit, it seems that any charge higher or lower than 40-60% is "bad" for the battery. So, is the answer to my question is that I should ideally not go below 40% if I can help it?
[General Accessories] Fields47:
Top Information! Top Post, Its true, we all go through the "Its a new phone i want to make the battery last as long as possible" phase when we buy a new phone, this should help us to make the phase permanent.
[General Accessories] xaccers:
It's gauged by cell voltage rather than remaining capacity.

Your phone will turn off above the safe minimum cell voltage.

If you then leave it off the cell will slowly discharge and eventually will drop below the safe voltage.

This is why it is suggested that if you're not using a battery for a few months you should leave it with 40% charge, and also why if you find an old phone that you've not charged for a year or so, the battery may never charge properly (just had to replace the battery in an old ipod due to it being packed away for the past 2 years).

When you charge the battery you're forcing current through it which produces heat and particulate buildup inside which reduces the life of the battery, which is why top up charges are better for lithium batteries rather than running the phone down to 0% and doing a long charge.
[General Accessories] scyld:
I realize this... there's no way for the circuit to detect "charge." But voltage is an easily measured quantity.

Likewise, your "charge" indicator determines % of capacity left via voltage, so when you talk about "40% charge," based off the phone's reading, this too is determined by voltage.

But what I was asking was: is there a % capacity that we should not go under when using the battery? I.e., is there any charge % below which lifetime decreases more dramatically? I'm talking here about a battery that is being charged and discharged, not one in storage.

I guess the answer to my question is: there isn't any % of capacity used under which battery degradation gets worse during recharging, and if there is, it's lower than the phone's switch-off circuit allows.
[General Accessories] xaccers:
Sort of, in that the lower you run the battery the longer you have to charge it for back to 100% which will shorten it's life compared with say always only letting it run down to 60% and then charge it.

I've not seen any research that covers exactly what I think you're asking though. Something like battery life run at 0-20%, 20-40%, 40-60% etc

Would be interesting to look into.

Talking of checking capacity, I have known someone who misunderstood and used an ammeter on a 9.6V NiMH battery, resulting in them coming to me saying "I connected it up and there were lots of sparks and now my battery isn't working, did I do something wrong?" :D
[General Accessories] scyld:
HAHA... whoooops!

Incidentally, someone on like the 2nd or 3rd page recommended keeping a Li ion battery's charge in the 20 to 80% range, though he didn't really cite a source for the info.
[General Accessories] carden12:
thanks ..really good post
[General Accessories] vj_dustin:
so u mean even though my LG O1's battery fully charges in about 3-4hrs, if i leave my phone on charging the entire night that wont reduce my battery life..??
[General Accessories] Xenova:
Yup. Mostly of the people I know and myself doing this way.
[General Accessories] aleks_:
I always put my batteries in the fridge....whether they are lithium or not and no matter what kind it is they go in the fridge if they are not used for a long period of time. Also I would prefer more than a 40 percent charge on the battery if you want it to remain in a healthy state. As for the temperature, that is up to user how hot or cold they keep their phone as many people put their devices and the heat generated from their body does in fact have an effect on the battery to a small degree. The higher the temp, the more likely you will lose charge at a higher rate than you're used to.
[General Accessories] ajithpregy:
Was really helpfull and neat
[General Accessories] noob 911:
was very helpfull indead...thx alot man...u own man...haha
[General Accessories] post man:
I love hear it
[General Accessories] Azure1203:
Just found this thread. Lots of great information.

I think a lot of people think that lith-ion batteries will last forever. No memory loss, nothing. But the fact that they don't is one of the primary reasons I went with the Android phone. Battery goes kaput after a couple years? Buy a new one and keep on trucking.

I've done this with every single phone I've ever owned. Telus was going to charge me $100 to replace the battery on my old Motorola Krazr. So I went to Battery Direct and bought the exact same one for $30. Still have it although I don't use the phone anymore.
[General Accessories] Xenova:
Hopefully this thread won't die off too soon. New members might get interest in this topic. Take this chance to bring this thread to alive again and hope new members can easily get to here
[General Accessories] Mittaa:
Re-charging this thread ... LOL
[General Accessories] Xenova:
Thanks for supporting the thread :D:thumbup:
[General Accessories] goddo99:
long lasting
[General Accessories] dk0108:
nice post..:) definitely helped resolve various misconceptions..
[General Accessories] Xenova:
Thanks for keeping the thread alive :-D:D
[General Accessories] ivan.schneider:
Cheers!! Nice post
[General Accessories] minnuss:
I knew all this, but its allways great to confirm the knowledge :)
[General Accessories] chrone:
thanks for sharing this! :)
[General Accessories] ward360:
Great info, Nice job putting it out there for everybody.

Here is a link for some real detailed info on Lithium batteries

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

Keep in mind the guys that build the charging circuit's for our phone know a whole lot about lithium batteries and design them very carefully. Our phones taper off charge current ( Voltage limiting) as the phone gets near full charge, once full charge is reached they actually shut off the charge circuit until the Voltage drops off a bit, at that point it will resume charging, if you leave it plugged in it will effectively charge to 100% then discharge a bit, once low enough it will resume charging again, and continue this cycle until you unplug it.

All while your phone says it is at 100% charge.

Ever notice that you unplug it sometimes and it starts dropping % very soon, Other time's it takes longer before it starts dropping %? It all depends on where in that cycle you unplug it. The percent you see is a built in calculation on what they think you want to see. How mad would you be if you charged your phone all night and then unplugged it and it instantly said you were at 95%? humm....

This is a great app that works on some devices if you are curious https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manor.currentwidget&hl=en

Overcharged lithium batteries equals FIRE! That is the last thing phone manufactures want! Well, the I-things have had problems with that... In my industry we call them thermal events. Fire is a bad word.

Once again Great Job!
[General Accessories] Xenova:
Thanks for the head up. Learnt from your post. :D
[General Accessories] chrone:
But how to use the phone from transfering data from pc to phone via usb cable when it's already charged full 100%, is it safe enough to leave it plugged in until the transfer is finish?

And does it prolong the battery life span to charged up to 80% only?

I used to charge the phone when it reaches below 80% whenever it's possible from PC or stock charger (40% to 60% left). Sometimes i forgot to unplug it up to 90%.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
[General Accessories] springy:
It is fine to leave it in. Lithium battery like to be charged often, and usually when it says it is 100% it isn't. You can never fully charge it because then it will explode, it is the same you cannot discharge it all the way down as it is dangerous.

As long the battery is not overheating the circuit within the phone will manage the charging so it won't impact the battery or the phone.
[General Accessories] chrone:
Relieved to hear this. I sometimes overcharging it at work due to activity and forgot the phone was still plugged into PC. Lol :D

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
[General Accessories] 'cooleagle':
Hello XDAites, :)

I request you to stop posting:

- 'Thanks this helped'

- 'Yeah Me too'

- '##Insert one liner here##'

- '##Insert one word here##'

The above type of posts here in the Accessories section and rather start hitting the thanks button.

If I find any such posts I'm going to delete them & you may get banned, you have been warned !

Regards
[General Accessories] icstm:
Is there are reason for this? I mean the charger does not "switch off" for most phones, the charger is just a transformer.

I would have thought the key thing to check is the supply voltage of the charger.

The max current gives you some indication of the speed of the charger, but again it is up to your phone to draw that current, so a 5A charger for a phone that comes with a 3A charger should only draw the 3A unless the phone is of poor design. Similarly if your charger only supplies 2.5A, then it will just charger slower.

That is why phones can charger from a 0.5A USB port, or from a wall charger

So in summary, what else other than supply voltage quality and quantity (both Spikes/Noise/Ripple and avg value) should we check on these cheaper chargers?
[General Accessories] android4temo:
This is some good stuff! Thanks for this info. I have always had questions about the battery in my phone and how it operates. you just educated me.
[General Accessories] vaud27:
very helpful. thanks
[General Accessories] starfcker69:
So in other words, you can use a 2a Nexus 10 charger on a phone that comes with a 1a charger?

Never mind...answered here.
[General Accessories] soadfan:
Okay, i get it, but...what about initial charge of brand new battery? Recently i'd order one of the expensive Mugen Power Batteries for my HTC Vision.

In the FAQ section i found that it's critical to charge it for 8-12 hours first 4-5 times, why is that necessary? Do i need to wipe battery stats before that and what is the order? Wipe with old battery in, than insert new one? Or boot phone in recovery with new one and then wipe battery stats or really doesn't matter?

Also i have this car charger, Is it save to use it from life-span point of view?
[General Accessories] eddie2020:
for me, my s2 battery its around one and half year... daily charge 2 times.. always between 10% charge to 100%..

finish up kinda fast cz i am heavy user...

i want to ask about the laptop which i not so sure..

my friend most of them laptop battery only use for 30min to 1hr.. and mine around 3hour..

my laptop is asus one.. which bought around 1year already..

what i do is usually when i plug out the battery. i plug out when it 80% and i put inside my drawer only.. my room temp is around 2x - 30 celcius

there is few question after reading

1. is it good to leave the battery inside when plug on AC ? i usually on my laptop around 16hr per day.. (no air cond mostly room temp around 2x-30 "laptop heat around 5x - 6x")

2. shall i put my battery inside or plug it out at 80% and put it inside drawer and use AC ?
[General Accessories] Xenova:
Even though most of the battery now is lithium based. A lot of manufacturers still advise their users to have a long charge to "wake up" the battery. But I personal think it is not necessarily. That's apply to older type of battery or if the battery is totally empty when they out of factory. However, we will find most of the batteries nowadays are half charged around 40%. Because that's the optimal level for long term storage without using. The point is most of them already been activated, thus just normal charge will do the job. If you like, you can charge it for extra 2 hours.
[General Accessories] manianapai:
One way of Storing Battery for Long time---U could store it with 40% capacity, but u have to charge your battery again within 3~4 months for long-time storing.
[General Accessories] freecbc3:
everyday i learn something new.
[General Accessories] 592da:
its sooo right...

thanks a lot !
[General Accessories] rochester21:
Although i appreciate the post, there are some things i still don`t understand: i use a 2006 nokia N70 with its original battery, which has to be recharged every 3 days. It basically works almost like when it was new(it may have lost 15-20% of the original capacity, but that`s about it). My dad uses a 2003 nokia 3510i with the original battery which is still good for about 1, 1.5 days of talk time. In this case, it`s obvious that the battery is in bad condition, but the phone was bought used and i don`t know how well the former owner took care of it.

So it`s obvious to me that good li-ion batteries can last for at least 7 years if charged correctly. In the same time, today`s phone batteries face a different kind of strain. Because cell phones have become much more power demanding over the years and the batteries themselves haven`t changed much in terms of capacity, users have to recharge much more often, and the battery operates at higher temperatures, which basically destroys the battery in a couple of years. Not to mention the fact that modern chargers use a higher output in order to charge the battery faster- again, not good.

My personal conclusion would be that today`s phones require better and bigger batteries, but the manufacturers haven`t really raised the standards in this department, like they did in the screen size department. And i really wonder why. I know people buy a new phone very year or so, but having a crappy battery in a 200- 600 dollar phone is bad both for the user, and the environment.
[General Accessories] NewbCentral:
I already knew most of this however I didn't realize one cycle count means 1 full charge and not every charge. Now I don't feel the need to wait until it's nearly dead to charge.
[General Accessories] klantballe:
Loads of good info
[General Accessories] bl8demast3r:
Learn something new everyday....
[General Accessories] hex_code:
Really useful info, Tagged

Thanks
[General Accessories] terahertz5k:
:good: good stuff to know!
[General Accessories] escalhavardo:
What´s your opinion on the fully discharging, deep discharge issue ?
[General Accessories] aaronlee1979:
most important is to charge till 100%
[General Accessories] gobedh:
For mobile phone and laptop..

I usually have 2 batteries, one is for daily usage and I buy another one for backup..

The backup battery is usually used for holiday or another activities which make me stay away from AC source for charging.. I do that coz I think my daily usage battery will drain quickly due to everyday charging-discharging, and the backup battery will always in best performance coz I use it occasionally..

But in the reality, my backup battery has poor performance..

And when I read this thread, now I know why my backup battery not in good performance.. I let my backup battery in not save place, and self discharging :(
[General Accessories] corduroy84:
Your battery is "happiest" between 80 and 20 percent. Many people are obsessed with topping up the charge once it has dropped to 70-80. It shortens the lifespan.