yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Thunderbolt General] RunNgun42:
What exactly am I stealing? Verizon is charging me for the privilege of plugging my phone into my computer via USB cable. Thats why I brought up the ipod comparisons earlier. Do you really think a company should be able to get away with charging you for plugging your own hardware into something you already own? What if verizon put in the contract that they have the right to charge you 5 cents every time you take a picture, regardless of what you do with it. Doesnt matter if you upload it anywhere, or use any bandwidth at all, they just charge you 5 cents every time you launch the camera app. Oh but I guess it's in the contract so we should all just obey it and pay the charges, and anyone who hacks their way around it is a thief.
[Thunderbolt General] bthomp21:
From a business stand point. You think they will really cancel thousands and thousands of contracts at roughly 100-150 dollars a month? It's scare tactics and they are just trying to make more money off a service that barely effects their system.
[Thunderbolt General] bthomp21:
sad part is, ive only tethered like 100 mb from my phone the entire time ive had verizon. i just like to argue and debunk dumb ****.
[Thunderbolt General] xebryus:
Gizmocrunch the site you guys read off of, made their report off a site called digital trends. Well digital trends released this http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile...cing-user-phones-and-removing-tethering-apps/

The only thing that has been noticed is the fact that you can't find wireless tether on the market, and that they stopped the built in wireless tethering for free.

Maybe you guys don't remember, but before you rooted your phone, there was a built in wireless tether app, that when you bought the phone a couple months ago, was free to use. Not anymore.

Anyone that thinks verizon is going to go into phones one by one picking off tether apps is crazy.
[Thunderbolt General] Brenardo:
well I just looked to see if my VZW mobile hotspot app was gone from bamf 2.1 and I be damned. It is not there.... o well.....
[Thunderbolt General] KidJoe:
Except that Verizon may sell the phone itself as a product, but it sells the wireless access as a SERVICE... So comparing two products (car and ipod) to a Product (phone) and Service(wireless access) isn't the same.

Verizon (and the other wireless carriers) currently are free to determine how they sell a particular service. And their Terms of Service (TOS) or Terms and Conditions (T&C's) written into the contract a customer agrees to when they sign up for said service frame the service.

I think joshnichols189 responded best to this already...

I would love to see Verizon include MORE in their services for either the same price, or less to me.

That being said, my cell bills are still cheaper each month and I can do WAY MORE compared to when I first got a cell phone in 1992/1993.

From an ethical stand point, you should abide by the terms and conditions you agreed to when you signed your contract.

And just because SOME of us can see and bring up the Carrier's side of the issue, doesn't mean we agree with it. That being said.. I do agree with...

It would have been nice if Verizon allowed tethering in the 2G and other tiered data plans.. I mean, with tiered plans, you're going to be paying for all data you use anyway...

But again, the fact remains, VZW sells the service and can(does) put their conditions on it. The TOS and T&C's on some of those tiered plans say they can't be used for tethering.

If you want to continue to use the service, you should play by the service providers rules... like it or not.
[Thunderbolt General] KidJoe:
Was it ever there on BAMF? :)
[Thunderbolt General] KidJoe:
I think that is the point/purpose of the OP... to ask if this is pure FUD or "real"... i.e. is the gizmocruch article for real?

You're observations are correct...

1. When the TB was released, Verizon offered the "Free MHS" promotion for a limited time. And while they did extend its end date more than once, it has now ended.

2. Verizon blocked/removed acces from Market to apps which allowed for tethering with paying VZW to do so. i.e. block apps from market which aided or otherwise allowed users to make use of a service Verizon charges for.

3. Anyone using a custom or 3rd party Rom will likely not have all the Verizon installed bloat/apps which could be confused for "apps were removed"

But Verizon hasn't un-installed any apps from STOCK end user phones.
[Thunderbolt General] RunNgun42:
Well, the way these draconian nickel and dime tactics get abolished is once the carriers realize there's no use for it anymore. So I shall give you all a hearty "you're WELCOME" for all my tethering and others just like me, who finally convince companies like Verizon they are wasting their time, and stop trying to charge for absurd features like this.

Not too long ago verizon used to block access to the GPS receiver in your phone, and required that you use VZ Navigator for any gps related services. Thats right, even though there are freely available apps to use this hardware, hardware THAT YOU OWN, Verizon thought it would be cute to dupe their idiot customer base into thinking they actually had to pay for this. Even though you own the receiver, and even though the signal comes from a government controlled satellite orbiting in space that verizon has absolute zero investment in, they blocked you from acquiring this signal. Half of you here would glowingly defend these actions because "herp, it's in teh contract!". People like me are the reason you dont have to pay to use a service provided for free by the U.S. Gov't.

God help you should Verizon start charging you for the air you breathe in your contracts.
[Thunderbolt General] Brenardo:
Absolutely... 100% sure. Used it til the 5th. Then went to WT.
[Thunderbolt General] chatch:
My sentiments exactly.
[Thunderbolt General] KidJoe:
Again, bad analogy.. GPS was NOT in the contract nor TOS (while tethering is).

I know it was a problem (GPS only worked for VZNav) for Blackberry devices, not sure about Windows Mobile or Palm at the time... It impacted the Pearl/8130, Curve/8330 and "World Edition"/8830. Previous 87xx and 7xxx BB's didn't have GPS built in. For the 8130/8330/8830, it was a hardware limit, not software (newer versions of the BB OS from VZW, or taking the BB OS from the same model device on other carrier's network and putting onto VZW BB, didn't fix or unlock the GPS on the VZW BB). there were no hacks nor tweaks to get around the limitation (at least for BB). It took customers, blogs, and the press complaining to Verizon for them to open GPS up with the Storm/9530 in Nov '88, about 1yr after the Pearl was first released on Verizon.

Your argument seems to be "I don't like the rules VZW makes, I found away around them, so I shouldn't have to obey their rules."

I think all the talk (even mine) about "you should or should not be allowed to tether" are way OT for the original post/topic of this thread. Plus there are already many other threads discussing it, giving reasons for BOTH SIDES, etc... then again, it would seem most of the others on XDA have been deleted (or at least are not in my subscribed thread, nor found when searching... I know some still exist on MyDroidWorld, AndroidCentral, and HowardForums)
[Thunderbolt General] l7777:
I have mixed feelings on the whole thing. If you have an unlimited data package, I understand being charged more for teathering. You are no longer using VZW for your phone but your ISP and could potentially wreak havok on a network that was designed with relatively low utilization in mind when compared to a landline ISP.

If you have a tiered plan though I see no grounds for VZW to tell you how you can use your allotment.

There is an analogy that hasn't been brought up. Many years ago when cable TV was new, the cable companies wanted to charge you a fee for each TV that was connected even if you had cable ready TVs and only needed a splitter and more cable. Most people diy people realized that they could split the cable signal themselves with no trouble and have multiple TVs connected. Guess how many of them got cut off and or penalized? Teathering on a rooted phone is very similar and will at most probably result in a nastygram or teathering being added to your account automatically.

Regardless of how any of us feel about these policies, only time will tell what recourse we will have or what things will change.
[Thunderbolt General] Mayhem8869:
If you are happy paying $30 for 5G's of data and then what like .$20 per meg after that, I have an old Pentium I will sell ya for $2000. Its NOT unlimited when you tether!! Why they wanted people to sign up for that!
[Thunderbolt General] joshnichols189:
It's $10 per GIG after your cap.
[Thunderbolt General] Mayhem8869:
I stand corrected.. $.01 a meg after that :) So a person that goes thru 10G on the unlimited plan - should pony up $80 instead for that some data? Because once you sign up for tethering - you get capped regardless if 4.5 G's is thru ur phone and only 1.5G is tethering.. you will PAY the extra.. even tho u didn't get the full 5G you paid for to tether.. No thanks, I am fine sleeping at nite knowing I am breaking a TOS when I want too (and NO ITS NOT ILLEGAL), breaking a contract but not illegal (there is a difference between CRIMINAL and CIVIL liabilities). I also don't abuse it. If Verizon loses enuff revenue to the idiots who use it as an ISP, if may be worth it to go after people..
[Thunderbolt General] Mayhem8869:
And to extend that a little further.. Say you went 6G thru ur phone and didnt tether ONCE thu the month.. You have now paid an extra $30 for the tethering "priviledge" plus $10 for going over the cap and not one lick of data hit an external device...Like someone said earlier..I hope u have stock in Vaseline cause its gonna get rough!!

Once the tethering option hits ur plan, u get capped unless this has changed..
[Thunderbolt General] JBO1018:
People seem to miss the point over and over. If you use a service a company provides for a fee and don't pay for it you HAVE broken the law. ITS CALLED THEFT OF SERVICE. Are the feds gonna come raid your house over it? No. I don't personally care what you do but not liking the rules does not exempt you from them, or put you in right when you choose to break them. I am starting to see why the world is going to crap. Don't like the rules? well thats ok they dont apply to anyone who doesn't like them, just do and take whatever you like.

My house is wired for cable, and there is a cable line on the pole on my property, so based on the standards set by people in this thread: I get free cable. I don't owe anybody anything because I have the ability to get around the system and that makes stealing service ok.

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt
[Thunderbolt General] RunNgun42:
BZZT!! Wrong answer. For starters your analogy is tantamount to me buying a cellphone and hacking the airwaves to receive free service over the air. Verizon is NOT providing a service to tether. The tethering functionality is built right into the os, and the receiver is part of the phone. Verizon is providing absolutely nothing whatsoever to you. They simply found a cute way to charge you for something that should be free, EXACTLY like they did with Blackberry GPS systems. Verizon has not put in one penny, nor is one penny spent for you to tether. It a function derived entirely on your own. It is no different than charging you to take pictures with your camera, mount an SD card, change your wallpaper, etc etc. In fact, cellphone carriers tried fruitlessley for the first couple of years to restrict ringtone/wallpaper installations, but too many smartphones came out too quickly for them to capitalize on this by the time to public already got used to doing it for free.

This country is crap not because people "steal", but because people like you are total pushovers to the system. You sit there and obey your corporate paymasters refusing to challenge the status quo. Companies like VZW salivate at the prospect of roping in people like you, people who wont question anything they do and just accept each monthly bill as is until you decide to cancel and switch to a competitor, what few are left. Thank god there are those of us fighting the good fight, motivating ordinary people on forums to protest these actions, having the domino effect of building global dissent to the point were carriers have to actually consider their actions first before being cast into the realm of worthless businesses.
[Thunderbolt General] JBO1018:
First you know NOTHING about me. I just don't want someone who doesn't know better to come in here and read about how your theft is fighting the good fight and they should do it to then end up with a huge bill from VZW because you told them its ok and it isn't stealing because you are some kind of wanna-be activist. Go ahead you fight the good fight for that free tethering. I have more important fights to fight than pitching a fit.over 30 dollars. Just don't go around telling people its not stealing and its ok and they can't get in trouble for it because you don't like the rules.

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt
[Thunderbolt General] JBO1018:
And by the way if you are getting free tethering you ABSOLUTLY DID buy a phone and hack it so you could steal service from VZW.

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt
[Thunderbolt General] Hasherx1:
too funny

Sorry to disagree. You keep calling it a service ...and it is not. Tethering is an inherent function of MY phone. The GPS was Freed due to a class action lawsuit and so will tethering. .I am stealing nothing from Verizon because I chose not to use their mobile hotspot which they got the phone manufacturer to update and turn off. I use software that takes advantage of my own phone's ability to act as a router. So I am just not going to purchase their tethering- the same way I use Google navigation for free and do not pay Verizon. I am doing nothing wrong.
[Thunderbolt General] JBO1018:
You can't change facts.

FACT: VZW offers a service to use THEIR network as a hotspot FOR A FEE.

FACT: If someone is selling a service and you use this service without paying it is considered stealing.

Go start a class action make them give it to us for free. I will be first in line to thank you, but stealing won't change anything. Trying to rationalize it as some cause is just pathetic.

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt
[Thunderbolt General] bthomp21:
The reason they charge for it simply is because of greed. It will not cost them more money for people to tether, it doesn't hurt the system like they make it out to. They just know for ever smart person, there are 3 suckers. Inflation is part of greed. 30 for unlimited use of internet on a phone, but not for your laptop. Whats the difference. Everything I can do on my laptop, I can do on my phone. I wont be using the phone and laptop at the same time for internet, so tell me how that affects anything? We can go back and forth all day, you're right and I'm wrong. And so forth, but its all opinion. In my opinion, I think its bull**** that they even cap data or charge for a service I pay for.
[Thunderbolt General] bthomp21:
by the way, this post is completely wrong. You dont have to 'hack' a phone to tether. But nice try.
[Thunderbolt General] JBO1018:
You can get WiFi tether for root to work on your stock phone? Interesting...

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt
[Thunderbolt General] bthomp21:
Thats the only program to work? Damn the stock app that came with the phone is the only one. Crazy.
[Thunderbolt General] JBO1018:
My phone has LTE radios I get free 4G!!!!! Right because my phone does have that ability built in? AMIRITE?

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt
[Thunderbolt General] bthomp21:
Traffic. Go play in it.

You pay for it, you get it. They found out that people were using it THEN started to charge because they realized they would make more money. You need knee pads?
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
someone else want to recommend a mod close this thread, please? like all the tether threads, it breaks down quickly into an battle over the ethics of tethering. It's like godwin's law applied to xda.
[Thunderbolt General] joshnichols189:
What are you talking about? People that are grandfathered into unlimited 4G get unlimited tethering for $30. There is no cap once tethering hits your plan if you're grandfathered
[Thunderbolt General] NeoS:
Let's close this discussion about ethical choices. This should be discussed in off topic or somewhere else entirely.
[Nook Color General] Nard Dog:
A few weeks ago I rooted my nc using the latest CM7 stable build. After playing with it for a while I decided that I wanted to upgrade to a nightly build, mostly so I could use dalingrin's kernal to improve the volume of the speaker. So, I went to the CM7 site and downloaded what looked to be the latest nightly file (it was called cm_encore_full-132) and put the zip file on the SD card. I then booted into recovery mode and wiped the cache then installed the new file along with dalingrin's kernal. It said the install was succesful, so I rebooted. When it started back up it showed a different logo than before and said "loading" so I thought everything was going good. But then the screen went black and it just froze. I was eventually to power it off and reboot into recovery mode and got my previous version of CM7 back. What did I do wrong? Did I download the wrong file? Was my install process wrong?
[Nook Color General] votinh:
Try to re-download the CM7 nightly build or try another version of the build.

Do only install one at a time and see when the problem occurs
[Nook Color General] RASTAVIPER:
I upgraded 2 days ago to latest nightly from Phiremod.

Doing first a wipe at cache and delvnik are the important steps.

Then I just installed nightly from sd and then latest daligrins kernel.

Tebbit and everything was fine.all my previous apps working great.

Sent from Nook Color on Cm7 Nightly 129 @1.325Mhz
[Nook Color General] Nard Dog:
Thank you for your responses. I do have a couple additional questions. How do I know which file to use download? Which device etc? I picked the one that said encore just because the one I originally installed said encore. Also, what exactly is Phiremod? I have seen it mentioned before. Is it just another source for ROMs, similar the CM7?
[Nook Color General] MHotovec:
In the CM7 world the Nook Color is known as the Encore, so always download a CM7 that says 'Encore'.

Phiremod is a themed CM7. Both ROMs have their 'this one is best' supporters, it's one of those personal preference things.
[Nook Color General] Nard Dog:
OK, it sounds like I picked the right file. Does it matter that it said "full" in the file name whereas the original file said "update"?
[Nook Color General] votinh:
"full" is usually a nightly build while "update" is the RC or stable version.
[Nook Color General] Nard Dog:
Cool, so definitely have the right one. I will try the above mentioned solutions this evening.
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sirblacknite:
since i only have 1 post, can anyone tell me how to get the tuntap driver to load on gsb 3.7? im trying to use the cisco anyconnect for rooted devices, but it appears that cm7 doesn't have the tun/tap driver installed correctly. i was able to download a tun.ko and put it in /system/lib/modules, but it won't execute with insmod (Exec format error).
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] phone_cell:
Can you post the exact steps you followed, adb commands used, and any reference materials you used?

The first question I had after reading your post was I wondered if you changed permissions after loading the new file to /system.

Good Luck,
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sirblacknite:
i was trying to get the cicso anyconnect for rooted devices to work, so i followed the following thread:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1164088

i got it copied by remounting the /system mount to rw, then copied the tun.ko file to /system/lib/modules

after that, i did chmod 644 to match the other module in there (wlan.ko) and they are both owned by root.

drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2048 Jul 10 16:38 .

drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2048 Jul 10 16:38 ..

drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2048 Jul 10 16:38 2.6.29-DecaFuctCFS-dirty-9ff84b92

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 213388 Jul 14 08:28 tun.ko

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 620128 Aug 1 2008 wlan.ko

then,

insmod /system/lib/modules/tun.ko

insmod: init_module '/system/lib/modules/tun.ko' failed (Exec format error)
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sirblacknite:
did this to mount /system as read/write.
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] MongooseHelix:
What tun.ko module are you trying to use? Try the tun.ko from inside the attached zip which was compiled for Conap's kernel.

Edit: removed attached zip as it doesn't work either
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sirblacknite:
from the app description:

i'll try this too. i suppose it would have helped to read the entire app description.

\EDIT: nevermind, that folder doesn't even exist on gsb 3.7
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] MongooseHelix:
Not sure if it will help but you could create the /data/local/kernel_modules directory and either place tun.ko there or symlink /system/lib/modules that contains tun.ko to the kernel_modules directory. Using adb shell or terminal emulator:

su
mkdir /data/local/kernel_modules
ln -s /system/lib/modules /data/local/kernel_modules

iptables support is included in the ROM but if you want to try providing the binary in the directory they specify, you can copy it from /system/bin
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sirblacknite:
didnt' seem to make a difference. i copied the tun.ko from the zip you posted (for conaps kernel) to /system/lib/modules and it still gives the error.
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] snortman:
I get the same error when trying to insert it on my Eris running Evervolv Build 4. Or do I need a different tun.ko for that? Thanks.
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] MongooseHelix:
I've tried three different tun.ko modules but none seem to work. I pulled one from GSB 2.3 when workshed included a version to see if it would work, I also tried the one I posted that was from Conap's DecafuctCFSv9 kernel, and another that is in Evervolv(I assume it's a HeroC version).

Not sure if anyone ever found/compiled a tun.ko that worked for the gingerbread roms. It could be that one hasn't been built for the unreleased version of Conap's kernel that is used on all of these roms. I might try to figure out how to compile conap's kernel from his source with the tun.ko module getting built as well.
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sirblacknite:
That would be cool. Thank you for your help so far on this.
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] snortman:
Mongoose,

That would be awesome if you got the time and were able to do that. I suppose I could give it a stab myself, but I would have to get my dev environment setup first. Or if Cisco would just release a version that didn't require tun.ko, that would be great too (and would be something we could actually use in the company, without suggesting to some of these people who can barely use computers that they need to root their phone).
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sirblacknite:
any update on this?
[Droid Eris Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] MongooseHelix:
I've not forgotten about it but haven't had the time to look into it any and learn about kernel stuff. I did ask workshed if anyone found or compiled a working tun.ko module for CM7/GSB and he said no. Like I had suspected, he said someone would need to compile the kernel with it included. I'm not sure how difficult it is to figure out so we'll see if one of us can give it a go at some point.