yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Defy General] royale1223:
I'd like to think that the war against Motorola have been one the second nadablack fixed PVR SGX drivers to work in Moto OMAP3 devices. The discovery of a vulnerable recovery was the last nail in the coffin. If we doesn't get supported for CyanogenMod for Android 5, that will be probably because of CPU or RAM limitations. By that time most of us would have moved on to more powerful devices. So I agree. What we need to do is making sure that no more devices get shipped with locked boot-loaders.

China is the largest smartphone market right now. If I were in china and I was wealthy, I would procure a stay on an device that ships with a locked boot-loader. Just like what Apple does to Samsung in US. It might even be possible because China is communist country, they are supposed to hate capitalist MNCs. While I'm at it I would get UEFI banned even. So any wealthy Chinese guys here?
[Defy General] brajesh.sharma87:
I am in, lets get started. Never did any complain in consumer court before and this will be my first one. I already had a bitter experience with motorola.

And too some extent, I agree that Android 5 being a major update will be really tough for us because of no custom kernel (obviously limitation due to locked bootloader). Even JB on defy/defy+ is not as tasty as on SGS/nexus s (almost similar configuration).

Moto decided to give Atrix HD a way to unlock bootloader, why? coz they paid much money than us? Why not defy? As far as India is concerned, Defy and Defy+ gave given a re-recognition to motorola otherwise they almost shut down their business here.

F**k you moto, will hate forever.
[Defy General] coolgame:
kick them in ze back!!!!

count me in too !!!! :D

lets give those biatchez a run for the money they have earned with false promises :D
[Defy General] 5pace:
Count me in :D
[Defy General] rey_lazo:
Count me in
[Defy General] espaciosalter20:
Oh my God!!# this thread going really down!! It was ok until t the easy recovery discover, but right now is all about sue Motorola. Guys, there is no more appropriate space for this discussion than this thread like, for example, General section? This is all about development, no law thing!!!

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[Defy General] hsrars-d:
We are just mad for Moto, and want to unlock our and future Motorola devices full potential.

And maybe someone could create a "sue moto" thread?
[Defy General] kadopt:
I don't see how you guys can pursue this... you got the phone and there was 1 mandatory software upgrade (ok, defy+ got none). and that's it! there was no obligation for them to unlock the devices to run custom software. of course they are just being dumb because this would probably boost sales of their unlocked/possible unlockable devices.
[Defy General] niksy+:
Actually, there was that promise about "all Android devices being updated for a 6 months period", wasn't it? I'm almost certain it was made before the release of DEFY+, which did not receive any updates after January, which wasn't 6 months. That's one thing.

The other, much bigger one, is that we who have paid for the device should have every right to do as we please with any and every part of it, no matter if that voids warranty or not, that should be ours choice, not Motorola's. When it comes to devices bought via contracts with various providers, that's different, since they keep them locked to their networks and blah blah blah... I don't know if they have the right to do so, but I know that I should have the right to do whatever I want to with the device if I want to. I paid for it - it's mine. Since Android uses linux kernel, I'm sure Motorola has no patents covering any part of it and therefore have no right to keep it locked down and prevent it from being replaced.

I guess this wasn't correctly said in a legal way, but I guess you can understand what I'm saying..!
[Defy General] kadopt:
Promise? This is Motorola! :P

The broken promise part was mentioned in my post.

about the "can do anything with the device":

"Motorola has not approved any changes or modifications to this device by the user. Any

changes or modifications could void the user’s authority to operate the equipment. See 47

CFR Sec. 15.21."

Page 65

http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles...Staticfiles/DEFY_plus_UG_UKEN_68004157005.pdf

it's not like i'm defending motorola or anything. mods could (for instance) increase sar levels beyond legal limits (like increasing power to the radio so it could have better signal reception)

an unlocked bootloader gives the user the ability to "enhance" or upgrade the device. also it makes things easier to the developers as is one less thing to worry about and they can code without going around issues made by the locked bootloader.

if they don't want to upgrade it anymore they should let "us" do it!

they dumped more lies to us with the atrix hd coming with a locked bootloader that will be unlocked in the future... no matter how good the device is, if there's no additional development is just not worthit!
[Defy General] pranks1989:
Was going to say the same thing. Please lets carry this "Sue Moto" discussion to another thread! I am creating one in Defy General.

Here it is.
[Defy General] sakitobaki:
That can only cover hardware part.

They can't forbid anything about software.

We want to change software.

---------------------------

Defy red lense

CM10 21072012 by Quarx
[Defy General] free2live:
I'm not a lawyer, but i think you are wrong. On the technical specifications of Defy it says that is running on Android 2.1 upgradable to 2.2. Thru custom roms Defy is running, even very good, on latest Google OS- Jelly Bean. I got tired of calling and emailing Motorola months ago. They just don't listen and don't care

Sent from a heaven made by Quarx and Epsylon3
[Defy General] pranks1989:
Could you please keep out the legal discussion from this thread! There is a thread for this discussion in Defy General here
[Defy General] 5pace:
Okay, so I talked into Motorola helpline today, I said to him that there's a law / policy which under Android legal that states that bootloader unlock key should be given by its manufacturer to it's consumers, he believed me and said that if there's any law / policy under Android which states the former, should be e-mailed to Motorola India and they'll see if its legit or not. So if anyone knows if there's any law / policy under Android legal which stats the above things, please post here! :)
[Defy General] kadopt:
can't the method used on the gpu be used on the ril? because if the kernel modules are applied on boot to load new gpu drivers it means that the ones embedded in the kernel are never loaded. but if the kernel drivers are loaded then the modules unload them to load the new ones it will not work. loading no drivers or a dummy driver that would not initialize the ril or something...
[Defy General] overclockthesun:
ok can you provide me with a copy of this android policy. I will have a look through it. legal stuff :) my line of work. :(
[Defy General] Kayant:
Remember guys

Remember that android is licensed under the Apache license which allows OEM's like motorola to do whatever they want with android without ever releasing on bit of code.... however they must release the kernel source since it's GPL..... that's the only thing they need to do which they have done.

For more information - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puSdhvC0ExY really good session from Steve knodik the cyanogenmod god and the awesome CM team.
[Defy General] yodawg:
Drivers embedded in the kernel are loaded before any init-script is executed. Just because newer GPU modules do work doesn't mean that the older, embedded drivers aren't loaded at startup before. I think they just get unloaded through a special command before the new modules get inserted... and before you ask that THIS also has to work with RIL... no, nobody knows how to uninitialize RIL, and that's actually the main problem.
[Defy General] kadopt:
Airplane mode just disables all wireless connectivity (radio,wifi,bt,etc) but the hardware remains active right?
[Defy General] yodawg:
Exactly. Only removing the SIM (before switching the device on) disables RIL... but then the smartphone isn't of much use without telephony, SMS, Internet etc. :P

When I'm done with exams, I'll plan to look deeper into this... But don't expect anything...I am not into this stuff at all and I think everything has been tried before by more experienced people :P

---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 PM ----------

Dumb question: Which RIL driver was used for the kexec kernel? Is it OpenSource? Did the phone crash upon loading this driver or already before?
[Defy General] pranks1989:
Guys could you please continue the legal discussion here .. :)
[Defy General] kadopt:
@yodawg

Ril panics and resets the phone when unloading the driver i think...
[Defy General] paradigmshift:
More empty promises from Motorola...

Motorola figures out solution to bootloader unlock mess, starting with Photon Q on Sprint...

I don't know about you, but I bet the Defy never sees this "solution." And I'm buying a Samsung when my contract is up in November.
[Defy General] pankajkainthla:
Truth ????

Motorola Finally Ready to Unlock Bootloaders, Starts With the Photon Q

http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-finally-unlocking-bootloaders-for-real-this-time-20120726/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=Connectandroid
[Defy General] Kayant:
With Motorola - Seeing first is believing.

Words didn't count for **** with them.
[Defy General] @non4:
+1

Sent from the real world by hacking into the matrix
[Defy General] kadopt:
I don't see it coming to older devices though.... Actually I don't see it coming at all!

But if they do start unlocking I may buy another Motorola device in the future to replace my Defy....
[Defy General] @non4:
I agree, nice phones but crap for root users, if they start unlocking I will consider buying one, but for now I have my eyes on the Xperia go, its what defy wishes it was, has a rating of 1/2 hours under up to a metre of water, 8gig internal + SD slot and dual core processor with Mali gpu. Also its reasonably priced and looks good, me likes! :D

Sent from the real world by hacking into the matrix
[Defy General] espaciosalter20:
Wait to see if any old Motorola device gets a unlock method. If that happens anytime, we can get a dump from a locked device and compare with a dump of a unlock one. Maybe we can notice differences that can help us to unlock defy...(or maybe I'm, again, just dream on)

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[Defy General] @non4:
Keep dreaming, they didn't even give half of us froyo, so the devs here said **** you and gave us gingerbread, ics and now jellybean! The roms are working pretty good even with the locked bootloader, no rom I had on my s off desire z was any better

Sent from the real world by hacking into the matrix
[Defy General] nidhish91:
Another holy crap from Moto. If Defy is not in the second list of unlocked bootloaders then Ill make sure they get sued in India..

S3nt fr0m my D3fy/w1u1 GB st4BL3
[Defy General] overclockthesun:
good going.... you have our support.

---------- Post added at 09:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 AM ----------

thanks for letting me know...will check it too
[Defy General] joydeep1985:
All talk and no work cant get us working . Guys from India ... does somebody knows how to make complain to consumer forum ? I think that would be worthy enough for a try. If somebody knows how to put complain to consumer forum . Please proceed forward with the petetion from defy users from India and xda . I think that would worth like something . So without wasting your time please go ahead or else I would go ahead with legal matters this weekend . Anybody interested please help us / me carry out a petition for unlocking bootloaders from xda from Indian users.

So if anybody knows the way please go ahead without wasting your time . That would make things work faster . Using law and suing as a group .

PS : somebody asked to carry out the legal discussion on another thread . Sorry to the guy . I couldnt have quoted all these messages ova there . So sorry for posting it here . I hope you would understand :)
[Defy General] brajesh.sharma87:
good phone it is but this will stop me from buying. :D

Also, It doesn't look as cool as Defy :)
[Defy General] bharaththeunique:
Lol...320x480 on a dual core phone.....add to that Mali GPU.....what a waste.....leave coolness.....our defy looks rugged.....army style...!!!!!
[Defy General] @non4:
I just found out about the resolution, they messed up there, I'm not buying it after all I thought it was WVGA :/ also check this out: http://www.droidgamers.com/index.ph...-fix-xperia-devices-with-unlocked-bootloaders

They're claiming bootloaders are "illegally unlocked" when they themselves provide the instructions to do it, thanks to this I will NEVER buy a Sony Ericsson, instead I think I will sacrafice the cash required for a lovely Samsung galaxy s3 :D

Sent from the real world by hacking into the matrix
[Defy General] bone101:
I think moto is unable to unlock the bootloader and the are in shame for them selfes ...... the should post a new thread like:

how can we unlock the defys bootloader without open the RSA security code ?

In Q&A thread of this forum

I think someone here would help them

Lol
[Defy General] kadopt:
Of course they can! They just have to release a bootloader that does not check for signatures!
[Defy General] adiq_ambro:
Not that I'm defending Motorola, but it's not always as simple as it seems. I suppose, that it won't be simply commenting one line here and there, but some serious refractoring. 'Fixing' the code to unlock the bootloader, testing it, releasing and supporting needs money and human resources. Even if it could be work for few people for a week, do you think that someone will just 'waste' money to just please some people? There is something called "business need" and "profits". If Defys bootloader can't be unlocked eg. by modyfying common code for few devices maybe there is a chance. Otherwise I doubt that Motorola will bother.
[Defy General] hsrars-d:
O.o They would just need to release the 16mb Bin file for TI's flash tool to turn our phones to engineer mode like they do in repair shops.

That should not be so hard.
[Defy General] adiq_ambro:
If that's the simple solution why didn't they do that for Atrix or Photon instead of releasing a tool? As in said in real world not everything is easy as it seems.
[Defy General] N_lover27:
Rly moto has ruined their rep by locking the bootloader... im going for samsung... galaxy s2
[Defy General] @non4:
Maybe s2, maybe s3, I fancied the razr too but, well its a Motorola D:

Sent from the real world by hacking into the matrix
[Defy General] marhensa:
Nexus Series, FTW..!!

Sent from TapaTalk | MotoDEFY - Android Jelly Bean 4.1.1
[Defy General] kadopt:
They can release a new bootloader and a generic signing key like "00000000". Just have too change the key that the bootloader uses and the devs use that new key to sign the kernel etc... how difficult is that?

[Edit]get source code for bootloader, change rsa key to "00000000", compile and release ! Flash at your own risk !

By Motorola."

Few weeks work for a few people? Looks more like 10 min work ! [/Edit]
[Defy General] labsin:
Would also like to buy the razr. If only it had a unlocked bootloader as promised with the update. They even said the international (EU) version would release without a lock.
[Defy General] @non4:
Indeed, I wanted the Razr Maxx for its massive battery but no phone shops in the UK are selling it, without the battery advantage I see little advantage of it over the s2 except I like its design, its more interesting, s2 looks pretty bland

Sent from the real world by hacking into the matrix
[Defy General] droid_<3er:
So I think we are going off on a tangent.

But one more question, will flashing a full sbf solve problems if I come across a brick?
[Defy General] adiq_ambro:
It's obvious now that you have no idea about development nor cryptography.

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[Defy General] walter79:
And no bootloader source.
[Defy General] free2live:
You can get it from Carphone Warehouse.

Sent from the Jellybean jar :)
[Defy General] kadopt:
@adiq_ambro

@walter79

I was stating a task done by Motorola, not our developers,hence no need for us to have the source code as well! If the problem is the key used either they remove it, provide it to the public, change it to a public one in case they don't want to share the original one or build a bootloader that does not check for signatures no ? They must have the source code for the current bootloader, it's their software!
[Defy General] ofmb:
It's obvious now that you didn't read what he wrote before that in the same comment:

"They can release a new bootloader and a generic signing key like "00000000". Just have too change the key that the bootloader uses and the devs use that new key to sign the kernel etc... how difficult is that? "

nor the context it was written in - that it's very simple to Motorola to release an unlocked bootloader with testkey or any other random key they create instantly.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=29484821&postcount=715

and even worse is that...

...you misled walter :angel:
[Defy General] josuearisty:
Razr got full custom kernel integration.

Custom Kernels Make Their

Way to the DROID RAZR

Thanks to Kexec

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/08/0...-their-way-to-the-droid-razr-thanks-to-kexec/
[Defy General] hsrars-d:
Read few pages back before posting....
[Defy General] SuperSkill:
If it's so easy then there must be many members not sharing their "secret custom kernels", i don't believe this as other devs here would do it and they have their skills for sure ;)

Sent from latest Django Manouche with latest Spica Kernel
[Defy General] kadopt:
As Quarx said in another thread the ril is different, so there's no current way to change ril drivers without kernel panic and phone reboot...
[Defy General] drunk_ryder24:
custom kernels

what should happen if we flash a custom kernel on defy(e.g. 3.0),should it brick?;i just flashed a stock nexus boot.img via cwm and it did'nt panic or brick,booted and still says i'm using the old froyo kernel so the flash might have been succesfull or not(note:custom recovery claimed the flash was succesfully;the zip contained sock boot img,no kernel drivers)
[Defy General] Kayant:
U know you shouldn't be flashing stuff specific to other devices on other phone luckily for you nothing changed as the defy doesn't have fastboot.... but seriously if this was another phone that probably would have been a hard brick.
[Defy General] drunk_ryder24:
when i did that it did boot harder bur its possible that kernel changed but not the drivers?!?
[Defy General] kadopt:
Nothing changed. If you flash a custom kernel for defy it will not boot as is does not have Motorola rsa key and bootloader will not load it.
[Defy General] hsrars-d:
... kernel partition is signed, it wont allow changes

And why did you flash a nexus kernel o.o
[Defy General] Kayant:
I think this video is in order :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwleOote5M0&list=FLnYAlNwz39ENUSXNMyRcRWg&index=1&feature=plpp_video

Just be careful next time this could have be you :p
[Defy General] drunk_ryder24:
just out of curiosity:silly:lucky it didn't brick
[Defy General] kadopt:
You are lucky that the defy is virtually unbrickable, unless you break the bootloader with dodgy flashing.
[Defy General] walter79:
will not work. you need a signed motorola kernel. if you flash kernel from nexus you will get bootloader error.
[Defy General] drunk_ryder24:
but i didnt get a bootloader error,it flashed successfully and rebooted,when phone booted it did it a little slower than usual but it succesfully booted,kernel remained to the froyo number
[Defy General] marhensa:
weird..

do you have eng-defy?

---

Iki le ngirim seko aplikasi TapaTalk | MotoDEFY - Android Jelly Bean 4.1.1
[Defy General] remix96:
Maybe there is a possibility for Custom Kernel on a locked bootloader? :rolleyes:
[Defy General] kadopt:
It's more like it didn't update anything. Remember that it's a different device.
[Defy General] m11kkaa:
Yes, flashing boot.img's inside update.zip's works by specifying the target-partition. And I think defy and Nexus don't have the same mmc-number for boot :P

Don't know which partition now contains the nexus-kernel on your device.
[Defy General] hsrars-d:
Maybe see from update-script?
[Defy General] m11kkaa:
yes you can see it there but it won't help us in any way :P
[Defy General] drunk_ryder24:
here' what the updater script contains

ui_print("Stock jRN84D Kernel - Nexus 7")

ui_print("");

ui_print("");

ui_print("");

ui_print("installing...");

mount("ext4","system", "dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/APP","system");

package_extract_dir("system", "system");

set_perm_recursive(0,0 0755, 0755, "/system/etc/init.d");

assert(package_extract_file("boot.img", "/tmp/boot.img"),

run_program("/sbin/busybox", "dd", "if=/tmp/boot.img", "of=/dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/LNX"),

delete("/tmp/boot.img"));

unmount("/system");

show_progress(0.100000, 0);

ui_print("Done.");

and thats about it
[Defy General] espaciosalter20:
Funny... are you sure that you effectively flashed that kernel? Because update script point to an non existent partition on defy (block/platform/sdhci-tegra...???), surely that flashed nothing or create that specific folder without make any real change in your system.

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[Defy General] juried:
Some screenshots of the about phone screen would be helpful...
[Defy General] drunk_ryder24:
you are right,it actually didnt installed but ive switched the updater script with a froyo kernel updater and...brick XD,but i was able to enter in stock recovery with the nexus kernel so it means defy can run newer kernels but bootloader is gay -_-,pardon my language :D

note:my defy soc its alive and fine
[Defy General] m11kkaa:
Recovery uses it's own (Froyo)-Kernel. So it doesn't matter what you flashed on boot-partition.
[Defy General] drunk_ryder24:
that might not be correct,if you flash walter79 fixed gb kernel and enter recovery the button light becomes brighter,still no boot but they share the same kernel so it did used the nexus kernel
[Defy General] hsrars-d:
wtf this is really weird.

I would really like to get this officially unlocked and with 3.0 kernel
[Defy General] drunk_ryder24:
we all would like to see kernel 3.0 on uor defy but what we know bootloader halts the boot process but it works under recovery,if we can mod the recovery and do a script to direct boot from stock recovery that would be great for defy,or try to create another partition and kexec the new kernel with custom recovery from there after froyo kernel booted
[Defy General] espaciosalter20:
First you have to bypass bootloader in order to initiate any script before...

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[Defy General] Quarx:
No difference.... kernel has same kernel as boot partition, only different ramdisk. Kexec is a waste time for defy.

We can't boot from new partition, because bootloader can load kernel only from 2 partitions (recovery & boot)
[Defy General] dark_prince:
Is there any petition being signed about this at the moment? we can start a petition and swarm motorola dev community forums about it. Seemingly there is a thread or two about unlocking bootloader of Defy on Moto Dev / Moto Community Forum with 20 or less posts.

We need a proper voice of ours to be heard to motorola. Lets start / sign the petition and direct the tsunami on to moto themselves. What ya all say about this?

we got 753 posts in vain already in this thread. :/
[Defy General] AnTerNoZ:
what u think about this idea?

Jelly powered.Defy
[Defy General] TJKV:
Isn't that the idea he replied to, the reply you have quoted? O.o