yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xoom General] skantman69:
That's because they cost to damn much. Walmart has laptops for 250 bucs and they want 800 for a 3g xoom. That's the damn problem with 3g tabs. Screw the wireless carriers and their crying.
[Xoom General] pecosROB:
So it looks like the OP might be right. The LTE module has just gone through the FCC.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/12/motorola-xoom-sees-android-3-2-update-fcc-approved-lte-update/

Looks like everyone who was thinking LTE would be skipped on the Xoom is sorely mistaken. Now I will wait for everyone to start apologizing to everyone; and by that I mean everyone who was so sure LTE wouldn't ever land on the Xoom.

Hell, I thought so too, but I wasn't pretending like I knew for sure. Glad to see some progress on this, too bad Moto didn't give us a heads up, but I suppose it wouldn't really have helped.
[Xoom General] p-slim:
anybody who thought this module was going to get passed up with lte is a MORON. how many commercials do you need to see as well as online documents. only crybabies were really thinking it was going to get skipped. honestly i mean that in the meanest possible way :)
[Xoom General] JanetPanic:
Let's be nice. I would not call them names, merely skeptical about the intentions of big business.

If the LTE upgrade did not happen (and it has not yet) would you appreciate being called a moron for believing in Motorola? It could have gone either way, though the evidence tipped in favor of the LTE upgrade happening eventually.

No one has the luxury of being right all the time.
[Xoom General] p-slim:
well there is a BIG difference there. i'm believing what a company is telling and advertising to me, so for believing something that someone is telling me (and they happen to be wrong) doesn't make me a moron, its makes that company untrustworthy, not me. if Motorola tells you "we are currently working on an lte upgrade" then somebody who doesn't work for motorola or verizon, starts telling me the opposite, i don't know what else to call that person.
[Xoom General] JanetPanic:
cynical?

<10 char>

Edit: woo hoo - 500 posts. Only took me a 5 years and change.
[Xoom General] p-slim:
i guess, but my conversation with kurttail is so much deeper then that. the actual thread had to be cleaned by a moderator. he is extremely lucky because if most of his posts didn't get deleted i wouldve copied and paste all of them here. cynical, thats a good one, lol
[Xoom General] csseale:
The main issue was or is motos lack of communication. That should be understood first before any other comments are taken into consideration. But many are overlooking that part.
[Xoom General] ZanshinG1:
The way companies hold back information really sucks. I wish there were more transparency.

Look at how upset many people get over things, though. People take dates as contracts.

I've even seen it as an Indie dev, must be worse if you're a really big company.
[Xoom General] ChongoDroid:
I'm saying early 2014... I'm in Canada :P
[Xoom General] csseale:
Tick tock tick tock
[Xoom General] ZanshinG1:
Guess I was wrong. We have FCC approval of the LTE part, at least.
[Xoom General] csseale:
Hmmm...didn't see that one coming....(please refer to my first post)

At some point you are really going to have to realize moto is bending you over buddy.

Quit sucking up to this abomination of a so called company and try listening to me (reason)
[Xoom General] ZanshinG1:
How, precisely, is Motorola "bending me over"?

By not liveblogging the FCC regulatory approval process for the LTE modem?

By not doing a press release throwing Verizon under the bus? (The delay in FCC approval was due to protocol stack problems with VZ's network)

Not really seeing the whole conspiracy angle here.

Could they have been more transparent about the delay? Sure. But we will be getting the update soon.

Surely you're not still claiming the LTE upgrade isn't happening...
[Xoom General] csseale:
Getting it or not has never been the true point. Its the entire cluster of crap that has gone on around it. Your so enveloped with your need for absolute proof.

I am 34 years old and have been involved with tech since I wrote a screen flashing program for the commadore 64. I have always had the latest and greatest. When new comes I get it. I have never seen such a horrible array of mistreatment and transparency and pure lack of....well anything...then I have with this whole Xoom thing.

Like I have said from the beginning if we get it...at what cost? People like you who roll over and accept this DO NOT help in any way.

I have never bashed the Xoom itself. It is a great product. It is the company involved. Fan boy...not fan boy...who cares, you and me and everyone in this forum were wronged and it still amazes me there are people who deny their 800 was a good investment.
[Xoom General] ZanshinG1:
OK, I see angry feelings and vague references to something horrible that Motorola did, but no specifics.

What, specifically did they do or not do?
[Xoom General] p-slim:
800 was a good investment, fortunately for me I know how to read a box so I've gotten everything I expected. The people like yourself who expect more then what's written of course will be unsatisfied. You keep saying Motorola did something wrong, they've done nothing wrong, and me personally I don't expect updates that just say we're still working on it, the only update I want from Motorola is when its done, that's not bending over, that's common sense, but your crying self and what you expect from Motorola is just childish. I'm still trying to figure out why you expect them to communicate everything to you? When your update is ready, guess what, you'll receive a notification on your device, that simple
[Xoom General] p-slim:
They didn't communicate enough with him, lol. He wants personal emails from Jha about when the project was going to be done and an exact release date. Every little problem he feels he should have been notified immediately, even when the Motorola vending machines were getting low and the devs almost ran out of snacks, he should've been notified, lmfao
[Xoom General] csseale:
That would have been acceptable.

P.s. you should NEVER laugh at your own jokes..js
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
In one week, it'll be 5 months since the vaporware 4g Motorola Xoom was released, and still no good answer to WTF?

Is Motorola trying some warped variant of the Infinite Monkeys Theorem to develop their 4g?

If not, I doubt the monkeys would make matters any worse than they already are!

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] ZanshinG1:
I'll make this as simple as I can:

A company exists by legal definition to maximize profits for its shareholders. The board of directors of that company have a fiduciary duty to that end.

Like any engineering project, things went wrong for MMI on the Xoom 4g upgrade, their partner, Verizon, had protocol stack problems on their network with the specific hardware they'd chosen, which delayed FCC approval.

You're a member of the board, and you realize that announcing delays affects your stock prices. What do you do? You sit on it as long as you can, then direct as little to be said as possible, because every word spoken on an execution failure affects the dollars it's your job to maximize.

That's exactly what Jha did in the shareholder's meeting where he let the delay slip. He's required to do what the board tells him.

Yeah, to us, it seems shady. But it's the reality of top-level corporate decisionmaking.

Anyway, we'll get our 4g upgrade, free, but late. Motorola will never admit publicly why it's late.

But here's the thing: Moto uses good parts. It'll be a good LTE part.
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
With all of Motorola's known problems releasing a 4g product, it is mere speculation to state anything about it, other than it's nearly 5 months and Motorola has given no good reason for the delay.

When you release a product as a work-in-progress, you have a duty to your customers to keep them informed, unless you want to piss them off.

I'll don't trust Motorola any more. I'll never be suckered into buying their lack of customer support ever again.

That should be simple enough for any corporate apologists to understand.

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] csseale:
Agreed... but its impossible to talk reason to zanshinanigans.
[Xoom General] JanetPanic:
Let it go. Everyone, just let it go.

If motorola announced the upgrade process tomorrow

- Kurttrail nd csseal would just say "it was much later than Motorola announced, they did not live up to their promise. Too little too late"

- Others would say "Motorola said that the release was delayed, but they delivered the upgrade. It is only recently that Verizon pushed out LTE to a significant population of their customers anyway."

No one can win this argument. Some believe that Motorola has acted in bad faith. I get that, truly I do. Others, such as myself, think that Motorola could be handling this better but are trying to deliver what they promised (still).

The Xoom is not vaporware, and yes I am fully aware you qualified it with 4G. I would like to point out that if a product is released by definition it is not vaporware. The Xoom was released ~5 months ago, not the Xoom 4G. The Xoom, 4G or not, has an intrinsic value in its hardware at release. While perhaps some feel that what they paid was only reasonable given the promise of a timely upgrade to LTE there is nothing anyone can do about that now.

The fact is embedded development and engineering is not an exact science. Sometimes things do not always go as planned. Software can miss its estimated timeline by years (Vista) and hardware can have unforeseen difficulties delaying its release (Sandy bridge).

It happens.

In this case it just happened to happen to a device that you are in possession of. I will not tell you to "suck it up" and that "those are the risks of being an early adopter". That said, if you consider LTE to be a defining characteristic of the Xoom and you think that Motorola will not deliver it, sell the damn thing and move on.

You will never by another Motorola product again? Great. You think the Xoom did not live up to the hype or your expectations? I am sorry to hear that.

Let it go.

Not all investments mature at the rate we would like and others simply fail. To repeat myself, if you consider LTE to be a defining characteristic and you think that Motorola will not deliver it, sell the damn thing and move on.

(Sorry everyone, including kurttrail, for the rant but I come here hoping to see opinions based upon fact and inference. Motorola may not be the best but they are a far cry from incompetent and well above the infinite monkey theorem level. Is it that difficult to try and approach the state we are in without reducing down to absolutes and ultimatums? I realize this entire post is also pointless... but I still hoped for meatier discussion. )
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
When other companies are delivering 4g products and all Motorola has delivered is delay upon delay, with both the Xoom and the Bionic, and considering Motorola has given nothing but excuses for delays, incompetence is a very likely answer.

In less than a week, it'll be 5 months since release, and that doesn't include all the months Motorola worked on 4g in the Xoom prior to releasing the Xoom without it.

So apologize all you want for Motorola, but reality begs to differ.

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] ZanshinG1:
You do know what FCC approval is and the basics of how the process works, right? As in, Moto can't release a product on a carrier without passing all the cert tests?

Moto didn't make the LTE part and isn't the carrier.
[Xoom General] JanetPanic:
What LTE tablet is available on the Verizon network right now?

There are a total of 3 Android devices (all smartphones) I can think of with LTE available now. Of those, only one (the Thunderbolt) has been available for any significant time and the battery life on it is very bad.

The fact that it has been 5 months since release of the Xoom is a red herring. LTE was known not to be in the product at release time. We are a couple weeks past the promised LTE delivery deadline and about 2-3 months past when most of us expected it. A radio not making delivery date does not spell incompetence for the company, it spells a mistake.

The world is an imperfect place and deadlines are missed. The xoom is a solid product that will hopefully get better with time. Newer products are starting to eclipse it, but that is the way of all products.
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
You do know that Motorola choose what LTE Radios they choose?

You do realize that other companies choices for 4g radios have been out for months now?

Don't you even hold Motorola accountable for their poor 4g choices?

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
See my signature. I think I know a little bit about the Thunderbolt.

HTC, Samsung, and LG have made better choices for their 4g radios. And there were USB 4g radios out long before those.

Motorola is on rev3 with the Bionic, because of its 4G problems.

Reality proves Motorola's 4g incompetence. Only a purposefully blind person refuses to see it, and keeps denying it.

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] ZanshinG1:
Protocol stack problems were due to Verizon's network diverging from the standard. It wasn't a "poor 4g choice".

Or, didn't you read about other devices having issues on VZ's LTE network? Hell, they had a full network collapse for almost a week.

When a technology is in its infancy, things go wrong.
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
I have a thunderbolt, so I've been rocking LTE for months now, and the outage was more like a day and a half for me. Nothing better than over-exaggerating to disprove your point.

As for the protocol stack excuse, why didn't HTC, LG, and Samsumg have these same protocol stack problems as Motorola?

Sorry, but logic dictates that these companies made better LTE radio choices than Motorola did. Period. End of argument. Anything else is apologist BS.

Sent from my vaporware 4g Xoom
[Xoom General] ZanshinG1:
Over-exaggerating is redundant.

Arguing that something is an "excuse" which one is clearly not qualified to speak on the engineering issues is ludicrous. Hint: It's not an on-board chip, it's a full module with an entirely different LTE chipset.

"Logic" dictates that if somehow the same part that did not pass FCC muster suddenly is able to, without any hardware changes, Moto's choice clearly wasn't as bad as you seem to believe.

Also, if you have no confidence in Motorola's engineering and engineering choices, why do you still own a Xoom?

In case anyone is interested in doing the same legwork I did:

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...ame=N&application_id=885095&fcc_id='IHDP56LU2'
[Xoom General] JanetPanic:
Sorry, but I will respectfully disagree. Motorola did not make the best choice if the only qualifier is date of delivery, no argument there. If you weigh in cost per unit, form factor, energy efficiency, and chip size the question is less obvious. The xoom uses a minipci slot for the radio. Phones (and usb sticks) would have the radio on the breadboard, so the decisions are different in a fundamental way there.

Motorola's choice may have been poor but decisions are not as cut and dry as you seem to be implying.
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
Hint: The Xoom LTE radio is a mini-PCI card, which handled just a USB serial device by the kernel, if you want to be exact. USB LTE radios have been out since last December on the Verizon LTE network.

Again, more excuses to deny Motorola's responsibility.

And if you are interested in my Xoom, $800, with free shipping case and dock. Limited Time Only! Put your money where your excuses are!

Sent from my vaporware 4g Xoom
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
Respectfully, time don't lie.

Less than a week from five months since the vaporware 4g Xoom has been released, and still no real end in sight.

Sorry, but you cannot change time.

Sent from my vaporware 4g Xoom
[Xoom General] ZanshinG1:
I see someone read kcrudup's thread. If you're going to copy-paste, at least copy-paste something relevant.

Your logic is still broken. Your argument is predicated on Motorola having chosen "wrong" on the LTE modem. It's the same bloody part that it was when they started FCC approval.

QED, not the hardware.

Why the hell would I want to buy your Xoom? I have one which I enjoy.

It's going to have an LTE modem in it pretty soon.

Ok, you know what? You've shown no ability to argue either fact or logic. Enjoy vilifying Motorola. The LTE upgrade is late. Does it really matter why, at this point?
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
Dude, you were the one who made the big deal about form factor, and I showed that as a form factor mini-pci is little different than the USB 4g radios that have been on the market since last December.

And then why is Motorola also having 4g problems with the Bionic too? It doesn't have mini-pci 4g radio does it.

When you look at the big picture, its quite obvious that Motorola is well behind other companies, and also quite obviously it has absolutely nothing to do with form factor.

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] JanetPanic:
How so? Motorola Xoom was the first Honeycomb tablet. There are no LTE tablets on the market presently. There are only 3 Phones on the Market presently and only one has been on the market over a month..... If Motorola does not release an LTE Tablet and phone in the next 3 months then I would say Motorola is behind. Right now though the number of LTE devices is slim and the Xoom holds up reasonably well against the other current Honeycomb tablets (each have their strong points).

If Motorola had put out the LTE upgrade and the Bionic on schedule they would have been ahead of the curve. Right now they are just in the pack.
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
It's been 5 months now and still counting.

Motorola's CEO has admitted to having 4G problems, respectfully,why can't you?

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] JanetPanic:
You keep repeating the 5 months remark like it changes my previous comment.... 5 Months ago Motorola promised LTE within 4 months (Q2 2011). They did not promise LTE within a day, or a week, or even a month. So to remark upon the 5 months which the Xoom has been out in relation to LTE is not of value. If you take the 5 month mark in relation to a release of a Honeycomb tablet it puts Motorola ahead of the competition.... 5 months ago there were no other Honeycomb tablets.

Further when it comes to Motorola being behind what does the release date of the Xoom matter? When it comes to being behind it is the release date of other LTE tablets and there are none currently.

I have absolutely positively no problems agreeing that Motorola has met delays in their LTE schedule. I have said it before multiple times. What I have a problem agreeing with is the statement that these problems have put Motorola "well behind other companies." Even if there was an LTE tablet out and available, which there is not, releasing an LTE upgrade within a month or so of said tablet availability would put the Xoom LTE in the same generation, thus not behind.
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
Reality shows that Motorola is behind three of its competitors, 5 if you count usb LTE radios.

And it's five months AND STILL COUNTING. Do you have any idea when the counting will end?

Nope.

Do you take into consideration all the months that Motorola worked on LTE before giving up to release the Xoom without it?

Nope.

When you look at the big picture, nearly a year of development and still no LTE devices on the market, add to that Motorola having to go back to the drawing board twice with the Bionic, and Motorola's LTE incompetence is glaring to any rational human being at this point.

And all we customers have to show for it is an email Motorola sent out by mistake last month.

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] p-slim:
Motorola being behind on lte for phones only hurts them not you. It doesn't prove any point. Since they are lagging they are passing sales to HTC, LG, and Samsung. Nobody is saying they didn't run into problems obviously they've fixed those problems since FCC said so
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
So either you don't count yourself when you say "Everyone," or you are just another hypocrite who doesn't practice what they preach.

There is a third possibility, but I don't think you are mentally-challenged.

And if you respond to this, that'll perfectly demonstrate that you can't let it go.

It is perfectly understandable why customers are upset after 5 months and still no end in sight. Why do you feel the need to argue over and over again, when you can't change the fact that its 5 months AND STILL COUNTING?!

You know when I'll let it go? When Motorola finally delivers on what it promised. Not one second sooner, because after that I'll never have to deal with Motorola's incompetence ever again.

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
What Motorola LTE phone problems prove, is that Motorola is having lte problems in general. It's not just confined to the xoom, and that it doesn't matter whether it is in a mini-pci form factor, or as an embedded chip.

It's a Motorola company-wide problem.

Thank the gods that HTC hasn't had such problems. My Thunderbolt rocks on 4g!

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] JanetPanic:
I suppose I hoped to get a logical and polite debate out of you. You are right though it is pointless.
[Xoom General] JanetPanic:
Oh I let go of the debate as to whether Motorola is releasing the LTE component or not long ago. At this stage I am simply trying to see if I could determine whether you are a troll or not. Since you just admitted as much I guess my job there is done as well.
[Xoom General] kurttrail:
LOL! You are a regular Nancy Drew!

You were just undercover, playing an arrogant hypocrite, to out me as a troll!

That's a good one, Janet! :)

5 months and still counting, and Motorola still hasn't delivered what I paid for. But you're right about one thing, no excuse can placate me after 5 months and still counting. The only thing that can, is the working 4g radio I paid for 5 long months ago.

Sent from my Bolt
[Xoom General] RadDudeTommy:
I agree but these conversations can get redic sometimes
[Xoom General] pulser_g2:
Thread cleaned up. Grow up a bit people, else the vacations will have to start flying.

Quit with the personal attacks etc.
[Xoom General] p-slim:
Not surprising that this happened on another thread kurttail happened to be a part of, lol
[Xoom General] csseale:
Kurttail had nothing to do with it so you should stop accusing. It was highly offensive remarks made by someone else so stop stirring the pot
[Xoom General] p-slim:
You act like I didn't read the posts before they were deleted. My original statement stands. I'm not surprised another kurttail thread had to be cleaned. The fact you came in crying telling the other guy to stop using your name was even more funny. It was as if your feelings were actually hurt, lol. Erase my name, lmfao
[Xoom General] csseale:
You must not have....I am the one that reported the certain remarks to the mods. Now stop
[Xoom General] p-slim:
I'm pretty sure it was you who ran and cried to mom (i mean mods) lol. Whoops I laughed at another one of my jokes
[Xoom General] csseale:
Really...?????

"Grow up a bit people, else the vacations will have to start flying.

Quit with the personal attacks etc"
[Xoom General] p-slim:
Yeah really, I wasn't even talking to you in my post, especially since everytime we talk its always an argument. If you didn't agree with me you should've kept your mouth shut or add me to the ignore list, by now I know I will never change your point of view and vise versa. Since about a week ago I don't even reply to your post unless they're directed at me. Are you trying to threaten me by posting what the moderator said, serious question how old are you? If you feel I attacked you just go tell on me, but you need to grow thicker skin you haven't been attacked yet
[Xoom General] csseale:
You were commenting in general..thus to anyone in a public thread. And your comments were attacks that were not needed nor welcomed due to lack of proper knowledge of the circumstances.

Posts like that cause more unneeded fights.

This thread is pointless now and should be locked to avoid this crap