yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
MIUI is closed source, though.

The apache license allows you to use the code for OSS, or proprietary. They don't require you to release it, and just about the only thing that is GPL'ed in Android is the kernel and maybe a few binaries.

Google exercized their righs by Apache license by not releasing the Honeycomb source, but they did the kernel.
[Thunderbolt General] TheLoonyRebel:
Why are you here then if you think XDA sucks? Nobody is holding a gun to your head telling you to be here. Don't like it? LEAVE. Simple as that.
[Thunderbolt General] JBO1018:
The reason it impacts roms like MIUI is because they need to use all of the CM team's hard work that is the RIL code. So in reality it isn't holding anybody back. If they want to write their own they certainly can, but they know once CM's RIL is finished that the CM team will be kind enough to open source their code to help out others. I'm confused as to why this is a bad thing?

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt
[Thunderbolt General] ska.t73:
Because people in our society feel entitled now. They want, what they want, and they want it now. We are becoming a bunch of whiny babies. They want the RIL code released right now so they can use it to make their own AOSP roms (they don't have the ability or they don't want to do it themselves), or because they just want CM NOW!!!

I don't really understand it myself. The RIL code will be released when it is done and ready. If people don't like that, then they are free to write it themselves. Some people are acting like Slayher has the RIL code all done and is just holding it back out of spite.
[Thunderbolt General] merc248:
Or some of us actually want to help out without duplication of effort.
[Thunderbolt General] ska.t73:
Then get a hold of a dev and ask if you can help... Slayher is not releasing the RIL code until it is done. That doesn't mean he won't let people help him if they can. What he is trying to prevent is people like MIUI and other AOSP roms coming out with buggy RIL and then blaming him and CM when it doesn't work right.
[Thunderbolt General] sublimaze:
kriskmk did not mention specific individuals. It's very interesting you decided to chime in when you did, it tells quite a bit about you.
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
He didn't have to mention names; he said said he doesn't like after market android developers and hackers as a whole.
[Thunderbolt General] kriskmk:
that is totally NOT what I said.... I am running a custom rom myself and have helped developers before with their ROMs.. (like sk086)..

In fact.. I am all for open source and sharing/collaboration .. which is why i said I agree with a few aspects of what the OP said.
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
Sorry, misread what you said. The +devs part threw me off.
[Thunderbolt General] Nikolai2.1:
Didn't even read it, all I know is that was too long of a post
[Thunderbolt General] merc248:
Which is the impetus of why I wrote the post in the first place - most of my contributions are in a few Ruby/Python projects, and I can say, first hand, that these projects and maintainers are more than happy to accept patches and make it as easy as possible for contributors to get code back upstream. Lots of these projects usually use GitHub + JIRA/Redmine/etc. in order to make it as easy as possible to show diffs, write bug reports/proposed changes, and commit changesets into trunk.

Also, any proposed major versions are shown in separate tags/branches in trunk, with nothing witheld, except maybe some discussion that happens behind closed doors.

We do not have to follow Google's model of releasing code in one lump sum without any feedback from upstream - we can follow what other OSS projects have been doing, which is to show everything transparently and accept bug reports/contributions and tag a major version when things are done, instead of waiting on a code release and hoping that things are well written before anything is released.

(I'm also a bit biased, since I've worked mostly in web operations, where rapid code releases are the norm.)

Anyway, I've said my piece, and I didn't mean to cause much antagonism - slayher *has* done a great job so far, but I picked on him, because I believe that the witholding of the RIL code, while understandable (given that other projects are surely watching that like a hawk), completely goes against the spirit of open source collaboration. I'd love to see more open source code floating around and a spirit of collaboration, which I do not see much of in the Android community.

Someone did bring up Cyanogenmod as the outlier - yes, I do know that this is the most open project in the community. However, notice that I did not attack Cyanogenmod as a whole - I take issue with the CM7 Thunderbolt project *before* it's even officially in the main CM project. Help us help you in getting it into the main Cyanogenmod project!
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
Keep trolling. I was speaking in general, and this jerk and I have history. So, don't butt into places you don't belong, kid.
[Thunderbolt General] kriskmk:
you are the one who butted in.. and you can use your "we have history" excuse if I were dragging you into the middle of anything.. which I wasn't..

so why don't you practice what you preach first... because sublimaze is right.. your meddling only shows how insecure you are.

and it is hilarious when you talk about "no one likes me"..(like I care!)... when you have a link posted in your signature specifically dedicated to people who hate you (and from the looks of it.. seems like many).

**NOT sent from any ass barf Roms**
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
Keep trolling.

By the way, lets not be cowards, and post what we mean the first time. Without editing.

Here, I'll do it for you in a quote.
[Thunderbolt General] kriskmk:
It's called decency.. something I am sure you are oblivious of.
[Thunderbolt General] TheLoonyRebel:
So I guess calling someone's ROM "ass barf" is decency now? Grow up.
[Thunderbolt General] abn75:
You know, I dont know you from Adam, and to be honest, with posts like that, I truely dont care to. Then you post about decency? So which is it, are you the as*wipe you present yourself as in this post or not? Just asking.
[Thunderbolt General] merc248:
Can a mod close this thread? This is getting retarded.
[Thunderbolt General] lrs421:
No offense but I saw this coming from your first post, even if it wasn't your intent. Threads like this aren't unique and the end is always predictable.
[Thunderbolt General] merc248:
Yeah, should've known better. :\
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
The mod that closed your last attempt to post this topic did say you should discuss it in the the xda suggestions area and not here. IMHO that would have prevented a lot of this from dragging out and reached more people that can actually change the way xda is run, since this is just a small subsection of millions of members.
[Thunderbolt General] MechaMorph:
In before lock!

Anyways...the sense of entitlement in this thread is outrageous. I find it hilarious that people are mad at Slayher because he won't release unfinished RIL code for others to kang and slap into their ROM's right this second. If the MIUI guys want it so damn bad they should just write it themselves.

There's also nothing stopping people from decompiling the pre-alpha CM7 TBolt builds and getting a good chunk of the RIL code. It probably wouldn't be complete but they could certainly build off that. Slayher himself said on Twitter weeks ago that he did nothing to prevent people from doing that.

If this not releasing RIL code means anything at all then it means CM is more badass then people realize because apparently only the CM team is capable of coding the RIL since everybody is waiting on the CM7 code to be released.
[Thunderbolt General] Forgetfull:
This thread is jucey.
[Thunderbolt General] lrs421:
I would read the whole thing but I'm waiting for the movie.
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
http://www.xtranormal.com/

feel free to make one:)
[Thunderbolt General] lrs421:
Lmao
[Thunderbolt General] spursrchamps2007:
well I got to page 2 and said lol. I've been part of the android community since I was with tmobile and the g1 came out. I was rooting and roming my phone before most people were really even giving android a shot, and I have to say some of the things you've said are way off. I see no difference between XDA and any of the other forums I've been a part of (except XDA surpassing those other ones), and I have to say the XDA community has been amazing. Many of these "cowboys" are available in the irc and help as much as they can. Not only that but from what I've seen if someone comes to them and knows a way to contribute, most take the help. The problem is you have people like me who want to contribute but have no clue how (in code writing that is) I'm always willing to potentially brick my phone for the right developer. Anyway if you don't like these forums head back to 1990 with your mailing list and conference calls.
[Thunderbolt General] slayher:
Merc248 - I will respond, although it will be short, and straight to the point.

1. I have stopped NO one from helping. If you want to help with the cause contact me.

2. I started a channel under my nick, because I support more than one phone, and because I needed a focused channel, not a channel with a ton of people with a ton of different phones. Sorry my naming choice did not get your approval.

3. A ton of open source code is not released till its ready. There are a ton of gerrit additions that were not placed on gerrit till they were "ready"

4. I ask people to go to a channel, because if you notice, the thread can almost be impossible to keep up with. And Yes I will throw the I have a family line out there, because I do have a pregnant wife and 5 children. I do not have the time, to work on CM7, and keep up with the thread, and take care of the family.

5. We want to get the code into the mainline, so fixes can be applied to the main tree, not a branch. The addition of the 2 new network modes and some other things that had to be done to support the mecha libril (since we cant build it from source) breaks other phones. It is CM's ideal to not have to maintain multiple branches. So we want to get it all in there and then have fixes applied to the main tree, instead of branching further away.

You are absolutely right, everyone has their own opinion, just as you have yours. I also appreciate the fact, that if you dont like a dev, you dont use their product. BUT I do have to ask, CM has GB running on phones that dont even have the manufacturer supplying GB for. How do you consider that a "retrograde"?
[Thunderbolt General] kriskmk:
Firstly.. appreciate your measured response.. you are obviously NOT the kind of developer that I mentioned earlier..

To answer your question..(and you have asked ME the basis of my opinion).. I consider HTC (among the group of all other android delivery vehicles).. to be be really the one bring out the fine aspects of android by showcasing how beautifully android works with their overlay. I know a lot of people don't like Sense.. but to me.. it is what makes THE android experience. I do credit Android in itself to blend itself to such workability and hacking.. but experiencing it is whole together a different animal.. and an important aspect of any product that you purchase.

Sometimes I see the extent to which people compromise on UI and experience just inorder to get a few more points in quadrant!!

Sense is what delivers the best experience IMO.. (even so according a poll conducted by Droid Life if I am not mistaken).. Motoblur.. even motorola users don't like really.. and touch wiz.. well, it was rightly at the bottom of the poll... No one (who is running a good sense rom) will disagree that Sense is smooth, fast and rock solid.

I called CM retrograde because CM attempts to break down the UI and deliver raw android with enhanced tweaks that are more of performance related rather than user experience (barring a few mods)... Rather than enhancing the UI of that the device already comes with..CM is taking a step backward to do away with the UI to it's bare bones..

I have used CMs since my droid incredible days.. and they were not really without any bugs either.. .. Even now while sense GB has surpassed in UI and stability.. CM is still working toward what I consider a retrograde raw experience of GB ... which actually is not even pure GB but hybrid of Froyo and GB.

Yes I know ios is already there for people who want eye candy UI.. but it is not just about eye candy.. ios is nowhere close to android when it comes to ease of workability and versatility.

Obviously it is a matter of personal opinion.. which is what I said in my post.. and which is what you wanted me to elaborate on.. and so here it is ..
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
That's one view of what CM is, but to me, CM is saying to the user, "hey, here's the basic android with performance enhancements. If you want a fancy launcher, there's plenty on the market. If you want a fancy email or SMS app, there's plenty of those too and so on." It's giving users the ability to opt-in to what they want instead of having to opt-out or in some cases not remove at all, because it will break the phone. It's also saying "If you dont like what we do, fork us and make it what you want."

HTC may have the best aftermarket android experience for a UI, but when you compare it to the competition (moto, samsung [though touchwiz has gotten better with galaxy s2]), it's sort of like the pros versus the bush league.

HTC sense (with the promised sdk they are releasing with sense 3.0) is saying what microsoft says. "Hey, you're using our framework and overlay, great, but you can only mod it through reverse engineering or our sdk."
[Thunderbolt General] merc248:
Thanks slayher - just sent you a PM.
[Thunderbolt General] slayher:
Thank you for clarifying your response. And as you stated, that is your opinion, and a valid one at that.
[Thunderbolt General] Dnakaman:
I have to agree with your statements. I think what alot of people forget, now that Android has been out over 2 years is that the whole Google Android platform (from day one) was exactly like you said. Google would provide the base platform (with basic functionality) and that they were counting on a very robust developer community to "enhance" the experience.

From what I can see so far, looks like their vision worked.
[Thunderbolt General] tcfrombn:
Anyone simply flaming OP doesn't comprehend the spirit of OPs post.

People around here need to stop getting their panties in a bunch. Jesus.

No wonder any sort of evolution takes such a long time.

I think overall, xda serves as an end user support forum and development discussion almost always takes place behind closed doors. It would be nice if devs opened things up, but some people would be too irresponsible with that privilege.

It would be nice if any aspiring dev could effortlessly contribute to any of the ongoing projects. I don't know the best way to make that feasible though.
[Thunderbolt General] ehr1:
Whatever happened to cvpcs? Everyone was heralding slayher finally getting some help, but all I see I'm the headlines is cvpcs's work on the droidx. Did he change his mind? His energies seem directed elsewhere.
[Thunderbolt General] weezin9980:
A little off topic - i think what would help us newbies (upgraded my own status to novice) is references to learn more on development code.

Don't give me that google it Crap or go back to college.

Create a thread for "us" were we can learn. Thus we will be able to contribute more effectively.

This is not a full time job. It's a hobby. But it's a constuctive hobby. It beats mind numming video games (sorry gamers)

There is a flip side to every situation. Just my opinion

CM7 RC 06
[Thunderbolt General] merc248:
Usually the best way to learn is to just dive into code. There's no other real way to do it, especially with open source software (devs in general are notorious for not documenting stuff as well as they should.)

Also, something that helps me quickly learn whatever project is to use the software, find something annoying that bothers me every day, and then see how to fix it. For example, there's a couple of tools I use day to day at work that help me administer UNIX machines - since I use these tools every day, I'm bound to find something annoying that blocks me from being nearly as productive as I should, so I write a shell script wrapper, or I dive into the bug database of the project and file a bug report, and maybe contribute a patch.

Me personally, I'm thinking about diving into CM7 code and see how things fit together.
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
How about "get a book on android" crap. Head over to amazon and look up a few and read the reviews about them. There's plenty of them and they range from talking about the SDK to the NDK to just building applications. You wont learn by a thread. You learn to code by doing. Having someone walk you through every single step isn't learning, it's regurgitating.
[Thunderbolt General] weezin9980:
I never said anything of the sort. When I said "references" I was implying on what you...aka developers have used.

Example: hey rookies... Try this book... Pay attention to this..... Don't do that.... This is a faster way...

I know this thread is not a college or university. Just throwing out an idea on how to bring in the outsiders into the "cool tent"

CM7 RC 06
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
I've never bought any of the android books, I just find references online, but I had a formal base of computer science beforehand, but if I were starting from scratch, I know this book series is pretty good at explaining to someone new to programming:

http://www.amazon.com/First-Android...r_1_39?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1308163294&sr=1-39

Book wont be out for another month, but I know from people starting out in programming that they thought that series was good. If you want something more advanced and without so many fancy graphics and such:

http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Andr...=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1308163229&sr=1-5

That would probably be the book I would get for myself for a basic reference (that or a "cookbook" on android). Books are useful if you are new to a topic, but if you already know what you are doing sort of, you quickly outgrow them. They provide a good foundation though when online tutorials and walk throughs seem too much or not enough information.
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
Ok, then don't learn. Everything I have learned about Android has been Google "crap."

You have to work to learn things, they will not be handed to you on a silver platter.
[Thunderbolt General] weezin9980:
Yareally - thank you very much. Ordering them now. :-)

Adrenaline - you took my words out of context. Not asking for a silver platter. I was asking for a seat in the chef's classroom. Aka point in the right direction.

CM7 RC 06
[Thunderbolt General] 4Gallovermyface:
The best part of this thread is that people bash mailing lists for being 90's while they use irc which is just as old and ****ty. A lot of devs groups use Google Wave now.
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
Google Wave was shut down, dude.

That means, pre-exisiting accounts aside, there are no new additions.
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
Nothing wrong with IRC. Much of the development community still uses it for live chat. It serves it's purpose--it's easy to control from a user standpoint and run independently from corporate interests. I mean what's a better alternative for group chatting of people with similar interests? Yahoo chat? Facebook? lol

Mailing lists have just outlived their usefulness when obvious better things have come along. I think the reason some still persist mainly in well established open source projects is due to the maintainers just being used to them so it's what works for them. However, starting something in 2011, no way would I consider using a mailing list for discussion. Old doesn't exactly imply something is bad.

And yeah, google wave fell flat. Someone gave me an invite when it came out and all i thought was what is the point? There's plenty of other closed group/platform collaboration tools out there (jira, redmine, basecamp) and google wave didnt do anything special other than used your gmail account.
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
IRC is great for dev collaboration. Someone thinking otherwise either hasn't tried it, or isn't a dev.
[Thunderbolt General] jcase:
we use eIRC, its like eLTE but you know 12kbps
[Thunderbolt General] merc248:
http://lists.opscode.com/sympa/lists/opensource

Opscode has been around since roughly 2008.

Mailing lists still serve its purpose. For discussion that can branch and can be shown easily as threads, what else do you propose?
[Thunderbolt General] happimeal:
Just my opinioin/observation.

Hmmm, "ass barf Roms", currently Bamf 2.0-5 has 5,766 posts, more than any other rom in the development forums, including the CM thread.

Kinda thinking the majority of people think quite differently, but that's just my observation.

Whatever your feelings about the dev, at least be honest with the quality of a ROM, again just my .02.
[Thunderbolt General] 4Gallovermyface:
It wasn't shutdown. They just don't accept direct account requests anymore. You can still invite just like before.

Any online collaboration environment is better than irc. Hell we are stuck with sharepoint where I work and that is infinitely more efficient.

If just being used for online chat then whatever. But there are whiteboarding dev chat solutions you could be utilizing that makes remote collaborative development a lot more efficient.

Why use ancient tech that falls way short of everything else?
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
When you start your own development project, feel free to use whatever you want. I would say 100s that go to the IRC channel would disagree with you overall though. Anyways, the channel is not for develop collaboration, it's general discussion (like here).
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
Yeah, I'm not seeing how IRC is a bad tool.

To each their own, of course, and considering I work with a lot of people on IRC, I think they disagree with 4G's assessment as well.

I mean, lets compare it to a mailing list. Post something, and wait back...yeah, thats very productive.

Granted IRC won't have whiteboards, etc. I fail to see how that impacts anyone though for this community, considering there are plenty of code collaboration sites.
[Thunderbolt General] abn75:
Some people just have to be contrary, no matter what you say or do, they will take a stand opposite of what you are saying.
[Thunderbolt General] jcase:
If not for IRC, your poor little thunderbolt wouldn't have root.
[Thunderbolt General] Dnakaman:
I say use carrier pigeons! :D
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
Thats at least 10x better than IRC, right?
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
totally, lol

http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt
[Thunderbolt General] Dnakaman:
You guys crack me up
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
bwhahahahaha!!!
[Thunderbolt General] happimeal:
Ahh thank you man, this totally cracked me up.
[Thunderbolt General] merc248:
You have to wait back with forums too. Not sure how that's a mark against mailing lists.

I personally like IRC as well, mainly because there's all sorts of clients for it, including command line (makes it a lot easier to stash the client on a server with screen.)

I don't have anything against forums, it's mostly trying to keep track of lots of relevant and somewhat similar discussion - it's incredibly difficult on forums. I feel that longer form developer discussion should be on something like a mailing list, and shorter form on something like IRC.
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
You misunderstand. I was making an argument for IRC, not forums. I think forums suck for the same reasons.
[Thunderbolt General] happimeal:
Found an amendment to RFC 1149, with QOS enhancements.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
lollll, ive never seen that part before.