yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
WARNING: I AM NO RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE YOU HAVE CAUSED YOUR PHONE!!!

OC CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR THE CPU, EVERYONE KNOWS THIS AND IF YOU DONT YOU DO NOW :D

Ok some people will find this useful and some might not care for it, but i wanted to post this to help those who like to OC there android or in this case the SGS4G.

NEW DIRECTIONS:

what you'll need:

any sgs4g rom that supports drhonks bali 3.0 or higher

bali 3.0 or higher

IM NOT POSITIVE but you possibly need ext4 on ALL partitions

tegrak ultimate

im pretty sure drhonks kernel is what made the OC stable at higher frequencies so definitely thank him for that

its simple after you have the rom and bali 3.0 or 3.1 installed the phone will be stable at a higher frequency

so far the highest frequency ive been to is 1620 and it was very stable with the voltages at 1400 and 1200

OLD DIRECTIONS:What you will need:

fugu Tweaks which can be found here (http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=981125)

DRHONKS UV KERNEL

TEGRAK OC PAID VERSION!!!

NO SETCPU OR ANY OTHER PROGRAM LIKE IT, TEGRAK COMES WITH SCALING OPTION!!!

ok so now that you have what you need its time to push that puppy up a notch!!!

Make sure you the fugu tweaks are installed and working.

then go into Tegrak OC and use the following options for a 1.5 OC:

go into optimization option and edit CPU level 0 ONLY!!!(unless you dont have DRHONKS UV KERNEL you can change all the other levels by -25 core voltage)

Assuming you have the kernel go into CPU LEVEL 0 and change the 1000 to 1504 or 1500 it doesnt matter,

after that has been changed, change your core voltage to 1400 and your internal voltage to 1175. Last thing you need to do is make sure you scaling option in tegrak is set to conservative with 200 as your lowest frequency not 100 or else it might crash while in sleep mode.

THATS IT!!!

if you want to OC but not so high try optimizing things step by step and see what frequencies are best with what voltages.

1.4 OC settings are as followed

level 0 1000 to 1400, core voltage is 1325 and internal is 1150

1.3 OC settings are as followed

Level 0 1000 to 1300, core voltage is 1300 and internal 1125

1.2 OC settings are as followed

level 0 1000 to 1200, core voltage 1225 internal 1100

(also to improve smoothness even more try adding spare parts and blade buddy)

hope this helps!!

THANKS TO:

TEGRAK for his amazing app

NIKADEMUS for FUGU tweak

DRHONK for his amazingness in general and making the fugu tweaks known also for his kernel! :D

Chadster: i think you posted something on fugu tweaks as well lol

Fatherof4 for confirming that my methods work besides on my phone
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] rickyc19:
can you post quadrant scores i dont have the tegrak paid version but just want to see what this puppy can do :)
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
im having problems with uploading my screenshots at the moment, maybe fatherof4 can do it or ill fix it

but im reaching 1300's in quadrant and fatherof4 was reporting the same scores after OC sooo :D
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Somairotevoli:
I get 1300+ quadrant @ 1.4 haven't tested @ 1.5, will have to do that soon;)
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Somairotevoli:
Here's 1.5 . See for yourself.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
repost the pic i cant see it

and what settings do you use for 1.5

is it any different then what im doing?
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
dang!!! 1400 im not even getting that!!

hahaha what are you doing to your phone I MUST KNOW!
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] rickyc19:
nice!!! finally went to the top :p
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] bruceleroyjr:
How is your battery life?

How is your battery life after the OC 1.5? Also, does it make a substantial difference in speed of the UI? What advantages have you seen with overclocking your device to 1.5 ghz? I'm just checking before I try it out. Thank you.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Somairotevoli:
Pic reposted. I used the same settings as the OP.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
lmao yay for my settings,

i think i know why i dont get the 1400

i dont just have the fugu tweaks on my phone

i have been doing a lot of modding! lol

looks like i need to redo some of my mods D:
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Somairotevoli:
I only went to 1.5 for the test. I've been at 1.4 for about 2 weeks. 1325/1150 and the rest core voltages underclocked by 25 except 100mhz I use setcpu for profile options and have it set to throttle down to 400/200 when screen is off. I also am using chainfire 3D.

I get 20 plus hours heavy usage.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
how exactly do you install chainfire 3d his instructions slightly threw me off
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Somairotevoli:
I got that 1307 before fugu;)
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Eric-1987:
The market wont let me buy tegrak.....!
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] GDofWR420:
Could some1 explain the plus and minus of OC? Would be much appreciated. Wouldn't this also generate more heat?

sent from MT. OLYMPUS using my kickass sgs4g.

THE GODS ENVY US!!!!!!!!!
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
When i first got the phone and there wasnt much development on it and I OC it, the phone would get all the way to 50C

Now with the tweaks, mods, kernel even when i run my phone on heavy use playing the game Modern Combat 2 Black Pegasus it doesnt even get to 50C on the 1.5 OC

the battery life takes a SLIGHT TOLL

i still average 20 to 30 hours on my phone with 1.5 and no charge, that is also with a pretty heavy use:

on xda, twitter, facebook, email, internet, texts, games and this is non stop all day soooooo even with the OC

ALL I SEE ARE ADVANTAGES :D
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] rickyc19:
How the heck do you get 20-30 hours heavy usage with it overclocked? I have mine with bali kernel UV not overclocked and I get maybe 10-15 hours moderate to heavy use
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
Have you calibrated your battery correctly, my battery has been precisely calibrated lol

Seriously though my phone lasts forever and I run a 1.5 oc with UV kernel

Freshness! :P
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] GDofWR420:
I would have to agree that battery life has drastically improved due to the Bali kernel. So my next question would be is it worth it to OC versus loss of battery life or is the loss so slight that its worth sacrificing for better performance? I do have to say its pretty smooth already.

sent from MT. OLYMPUS using my kickass sgs4g.

THE GODS ENVY US!!!!!!!!!
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] adobrakic:
No problem, I know it's difficult to keep up with this stuff sometimes, especially when a thread grows a handful of pages in just one day. And it looks like you've made a good choice, this phone seems to be evolving in terms of software daily. Just make sure to take everything slow and make lots of backups.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
can anyone test the kf1 fugu tweaks and see if the OC peforms better? thanks!
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] shotchacokov:
Mine does have the kf1 fugu tweaks, using antutu benchmark... 2843 @ 1.556ghz

2810 @ 1.5ghz

Have a thread in the general section for scores. Would like to compare with bionix & gb if anyone will post screenshots

Running quadrant @ 1.5ghz I get 2228 running kd1 still...

I don't even run it overclocked anymore. It is silky smooth @ 1ghz..

Sent from my Galaxy S 4G
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
is that 2228 quad score off 1.0 GHZ?? or 1.5?

if its off 1.0 then the kf1 fugu tweaks are better :D
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] adobrakic:
1.5 GHZ for sure
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] shotchacokov:
That was set at 1.5, sorry. I get about 1650'ish @ 1.0 and 1810 @ 1.2.

Sent from my Galaxy S 4G
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] shotchacokov:
Wow! This is nuts... The top 3 scores on Antutu benchmark for this device lol

Thanks for the guide man!

Sent from my Galaxy S 4G
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Bxkid1046:
Mines is at 1.5 with ext4 on all
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] lphillips80:
what settings are you using for 1620mhz?
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Eric-1987:
You're in the thread bro. Follow the OP.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] shotchacokov:
+ 1

Sent from my Galaxy S 4G
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] lphillips80:
I did follow the OP. It frezzes. I have black ice stable 2, bali 3.1UV ext4 on system/cache/data, and kf1 fugu tweaks installed.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Eric-1987:
If you followed the OP and it freezes dont try it anymore. Not everyones hardware can put out the same OC.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] lphillips80:
roger that, thanks :)
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] makavelicruz:
this might a really dumb question, I did notice we would need uv kernel for OC'ling. Now can we use non-UV kernels for OC'ling as well?
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
you can but the temps might go up
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] 404glitch:
Jeez dude, 1.6GHz? I'm half-expecting you to figure out a stable 2.0GHz by the end of the summer now. :p

And I've officially moved to 1.4GHz, the battery life isn't quite as good as 1.3, but it's a lot more stable.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] RaverX3X:
i did a 2.0 ghz but i had to freezer cool the damm phone to make it stable lol
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] nOl3ell:
I'm so confuse how to OC. I try Set CPU and Tegra Overclok but it doesn't work.

it show me max 1000 T_T

i flash the rom and root from http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1128412

can anyone guide me:)
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] shotchacokov:
Lmao! Now you have me thinking.... Nothing good can come from you sharing that with me... Hahaha
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] :
1.6 freezes with bali 3.2. Just a heads up
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Eric-1987:
Mine is working fine at 1.6GHz.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] nOl3ell:
I just flash wih KD1 Stock from Whitehawkx and install KERNEL Bali v3.2 [EXT4 Voodoo Lagfix] from Team Whiskey.

now everything is OK

then install Tegra OC but when i select on Load Overclock Module it dosn't work, it show me "Failed to get root" (PS.Tegra OC isn't paid version)

What i do wrong?
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
Check Superuser and make sure it isn't rejecting it for some reason
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] nOl3ell:
Thx guy..now it's work but I'venot use the paid vesion to overclock Level 0:)
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] nOl3ell:
now..I can OC:D

Thx to everyone in this forrum...they help me a lot
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
Fell free to hit the "thanks" button
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
What are your guys' scores with other benchmarks? mine are in my sig and i wanted to see how mine compare at 1.58ghz as to 1.6ghz because me phone goes to crap at 1.6
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] QUIETLYloud:
I'm also running Black Ice, 3.1uv, oc'd to 1.204...

Quadrant = 2100's

AnTuTu = 3500's

Linpack = 18's

Not familiar with the others you use.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
Wow, your Quadrant seems really high for only a 1.2 oc
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] QUIETLYloud:
I've applied all of the tweaks for this forum! I'm trying to upload the screens that I got right before my post.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
Did you run quadrant twice(
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] QUIETLYloud:
yes that was the second run. The first was 1956 and I had just loaded "shoot it" for the shots.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
Did you run single- or multi-thread in linpack
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] QUIETLYloud:
I used single... I was under the impression that double was for dual cores, when I run double it say it's inconsistent our something
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
Really? It works for me
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] QUIETLYloud:
Just used it...still doing 17...

I also turned down my resolution, use link2app, partioned my sd card (1 gig ext4), use sd booster (4048) and fugu tweaks minus the ram booster
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] neocorteqz:
I've gotten 1.62 with these instructions, didn't gain me much higher quadrant scores. but it's all good. thanks for the detailed instructions.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
I can't get to 1.6 so I settled for 1.58
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
Idk what quad scores your getting but ive had 2 people pass 3000 with 1.6 :P gotta tweak a little more

sent from my sgs4g 2.3.3, finally
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] neocorteqz:
Will edit this post with stock speed and OC scores. and my sig has whats been done.

I'm using this and the knowledge of its members to get the best from my phone, still a newb when it comes to android phones and modding them.

edit:

stock: score -1362

OC: 1600/1400/1150

score - 1938

as represented with screen shots.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] QUIETLYloud:
Try turning off that stability watch on tegra
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] neocorteqz:
Will do. But what would That do?
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
which FUGU files are you using?
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] neocorteqz:
I believe kf1, I will double check.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
I could only get to 1.62 with the kf1 files
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] neocorteqz:
I get 1.6 stable. Just the quad scores are not as high as everyone else. It's fine though. I got my phone to a happy place for now.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
I don't of unless im just trying to get high quad scores or if I do of I only go to 1.58 so my battery doesn't drain
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] sethtyler21:
My 1.5 was stable with 2000 Score but i tried the 1620 frequency with the setting you had in the op and its not stable. the quadrant wont run and my phone froze once or twice
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] jager555:
yea, not every one of the phones can handle the same oc values. its ok if it can't, it doesnt mean your phone is defective or anything.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
My phone is stable at 1.62ghz but no benchmarks will run. They all fc
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Jay Aristide:
Happy with my Quad score :)

Running: Stock Froyo 2.2 ROM from Samsung with bloatware removed and critical apps integrated into ROM, OC'd w/Tegrak Ultimate to 1.3GHz (1300/1325/1150), ~100MB free in ROM, 16GB 10X SDHC w/2GB ext4 for Links2sd (rest is Fat32), Bali 3.3UV Kernel, ext4 filesystems, KG4 Fugu Tweaks & dsexton's build.plist, Launcher Pro Plus, Trillian's connection service running, SeekDroid's background service running. ...I think that's everything :eek:

Before I switched to the Bali kernel and ext4, I couldn't get a quad over 1500. It's also worth noting that my Quad score here is a full 150+ more than it was on ICBINB.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] jager555:
thats an awesome score, but just a friendly reminder, dsextons (and of course the rest of team acid's) rom wasnt made to score the highest on quadrant scores, as he pointed out. it was made for performance and smoothness. i know its fun to compare quad scores, though. i hope you're enjoying it and im looking forward to seeing what you get when you get 1.6 oc!! hah.:D
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Jay Aristide:
I'm not gonna clock to 1.6. I'm quite happy with 1.3 :) This phone is lightning fast, has no lag whatsoever, and runs every app I've thrown at it perfectly. It's very stable, and I still get great battery life from it.

And yeah, I know ICBINB is made to be buttery smooth, and it is. I'm just saying that since I mucked around in my own ROM (the one that sorta built itself as I've been learning), I've gotten it to about the same level of smooth :)
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] jager555:
nice. i love the theme, btw. the battery mod is pretty sweet
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dbldown7:
I know everyone says quad scores don't mean squat, but I'm scoring 2100 oc'd to only 1.1ghz. Antutu ~3500. Running black Ice, voodoo lagfix enabled, bali3.3, kg4 fugu tweaks, modified build.prop, and a bunch of intd tweaks.

Smooth as can be and getting 24+ hours of battery life using xda, facebook, netflix, wordfued, gmail, texting, constant WIFI connection... I LOVE this phone!!! Thank you to ALL the devs for your hard work and incredible devotion.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
What init.d tweaks are you using?
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Jay Aristide:
+1 My setup is pretty similar. I'd also like to know what init.d tweaks you're running...your scores are more in-line with a 1.6 OC (which has been done successfully, but with those voltages, pathway deterioration has to triple inside the processor...but, I digress) I'm quite content benching 1900 @ 1.3 and very reasonable voltages.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dbldown7:
I replaced the black ice init.d folder with the init.d folder from ICBINB. ***Honestly, i'm pretty noob... I don't have much idea what each of the files in the init.d folder do. If anyone wants to pm me explaining what they do, I would totally appreciate it.***
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dbldown7:
Here are some screen shots.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
If i pm you my email, will you email me my init.d folder
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Bassmanjames:
What version of tegrak ultimate does this require and where can I find it?. I had to download an updated version after a failed data restore. It won't let me go over 1.3
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] QUIETLYloud:
You can only go higher with the ultimate/paid version
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Bassmanjames:
I got paid app. The updated version won't let me go over.1.3
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
Are you looking in "Optimization"? And what intervals are you guys getting when you try to OC? I had different ones after an update but they went away
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Bassmanjames:
This is what I have after downloading from the market last night. I'm running ravers redux v1.3 but couldn't do a cwm data restore for my apps and had to start over. What version do I need to get back the higher frequencies
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] QUIETLYloud:
You're on the right version, when you open the program you have to select "optimization", which is the first option at the top on the screen.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Bassmanjames:
K. Didn't know if I should adjust the frequency from there or not. The version I used to have would set it from the other menu and I would only adjust the voltages in the optimization menu. Thanks for the info.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] QUIETLYloud:
You can only adjust the level 0 freq.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
No you van adjust all levels
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Somairotevoli:
You can adjust voltages for all, but you can only change the clock frequency of level 0.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
yea you cant change the frequencies except on level 0 but voltages are changed on all levels :D
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Aldieri:
Nice I'm liking 1. 5 quad score over 2k...
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] johnlaqua:
can i do this running the octane rom? what i mean is does the kernal with that rom support this, and if not can i do honks bali over it with all the other mods... not even sure i should or if i have to, my quad scores are averaging 2230 with no mods done after i flashed the rom. to be honest im not sure how i feel about quad scores anyways, i dont really notice a difference averaging 2200 vs the 1800 i was getting from valhallla.... but ive been reading through and seen the battery life pros...i def do not get 20 hours with heavy usage maybe half that, but i would really cmpromise quad scores for 20 to 30 hours of battery life ;)
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
Bali doesnt work on GB. And yes, you can use these settings on octane but if you want battery life, you should use the undervolt settings in the OP of ICBINB GB

Sent by Thor's SGS4G from Valhalla using the xda app
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] johnlaqua:
ok cool ill give it a shot....a quick note, ive read about calibrating battery so i got calibrate app charged 100 then unplug and calibrate.... i just ran a quad test 3 times and im only getting 1k to 1300....i was averaging 2200, i havent done anything to it yet no ext4, no fugu, no init.d files (whatever that is) lol nothing but calibrating battery app...so the only logical question to ask now is....wtf is goin on? lol
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
You didnt calibrate right. Charge, calibrate, then unplug. And give it a few days to set in

Sent by Thor's SGS4G from Valhalla using the xda app
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] johnlaqua:
yeah i just got it, i charged and calibrate and unplugged, waiting for batt to completely drain now...should i have that done before i decide to do anything with tegrak?
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
I dont think that it matters

Sent by Thor's SGS4G from Valhalla using the xda app
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] icy56:
Off topic but I think its amazing how we used to be soo happy getting scores that high.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] johnlaqua:
ok did calibration let it charge while it was off didnt turn on til it said 100% started using it moderately maybe a little above moderate for past 5.5 hours or so...down to 5%, i know it takes a couple days to set it but 95% in 5.5 hours seems a little off...no?
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Juls317:
Wow, i got like 16-18 on my first day.... Hmmmm

Sent by Thor's SGS4G from Valhalla using the xda app
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] johnlaqua:
yeah who knows, im gonna give it a couple days, then try again, then if no luck try a dif calibrate app

***Will work for an SGS2***
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
I prefer battery over performance but OC really doesn't kill my battery much more then without it and the performance is awesome, I never thought I would see this phone so snappy and smooth so in my personal opinion and data the OC is worth it :)
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] rickyc19:
What do you mean when you ask if I have calibrated my battery as in battery calibrator app then yes but if you mean something else then please let me know
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] GDofWR420:
OK thank you, I'll have to give it a try when I can buy the paid app

sent from MT. OLYMPUS using my kickass sgs4g.

THE GODS ENVY US!!!!!!!!!
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
No you are correct I used the same calibrator maybe you just have to give it some time to break in ???
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Somairotevoli:
it's been awhile since I installed it, but i think I just downloaded from the market, installed and loaded the driver. Then the only option I have set is unroll textures under default options.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] CozzaFrenzyy:
Its just like overclocking your computers cpu. Better performance but cutting some of the processors life away.

.5ghz is a big overclock considering the size of the chip, i think things might get a little hot in there..
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] dsexton702:
ive been playing this new game robotek for 3 hours straight on the 1.5 OC and im only at 40C

you tell me if thats hot hahahahahaha not at all :D
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] makavelicruz:
Does tegrak tells you the temp? Does it come with that preset?
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] rickyc19:
Well I calibrated it like 2 weeks ago so I dont think thats it so im just going to re-calibrate it and see what that does
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] makavelicruz:
So as you lower frequency, you have to lower the other options as well like the core voltage.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] cint_chris:
Guys im not geting 1400 on the bench scores. I dont know what im doing wrong. How do you know if fugu tweak was a success? i just ran the test and it shows 1317... i mean its better than before lol. however you guys seem to have better scores and wondering if theres something else i can do to bring it up?