yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
So hypothetically is there any way to enable only the basic 'metrics' collecting as it pertains only to signal strength, etc, and remove the more specific data mining? My disgust with all surveillance aside, I think this is an issue because this is created by a third party, therefore I am guessing they have access to anything it could access, even if they dont use it already, who are THEY selling this to? I really dont think this has a lot to do with sprint and homeland insecurity breaking your door down for whatever it is you do, but more for the typical corporate data mining for marketing, and other BS... kind of like how FB's ads are predictive based on your friends, likes, etc. This is what I would like to lose. I also really doubt they cannot collect this information using servers on their side, instead of making our phones do all the work (if they were polled), we all know all carriers, isp's , etc can track and record pretty much everything we do, google does it, but thats part of the reason for having an android. As far as law enforcement goes, they can already get anything that would be relevant in a real court on their side, now analyzing your personality and behavior and schedule is the crap that 'law enforcement' has taken too far... think 1984.

Anyways, so I guess it boils down to this, is there a way to keep only the signal strength features, IF they cause us little to nothing as far as battery or performance? I dont mind that stuff, but the more invasive aspects, I dont like making it any easier for a pig or marketing douche to figure out how to better sell to me until they decide to lock me up :p I have seen CIQ removed in parts (Chris41g?), but it would be nice to have a breakdown of what is kept and what is removed (Chris if you already have, sorry haven't looked at your thread lateley, but might today ;) ).

oh, and final bit, the reason I am so skeptical about the third party aspect is that that enables corporations, and the government, to point the finger at someone else, and in Govts case, access info they would need a warrant for otherwise (even if they only had to get it after the fact)... this is how FBI and CIA share information, the 'patriot' acts and the others that went with it pretty much set this up, we dont really have privicy anymore, unless you wanna join Ice-T and the lo-Teks.
[Epic 4G General] JohnCorleone:
Ok I have a question. I have read here that CIQ helps with metrics and with gathering info such as signal strength. I haven't been able to update my profile or PRL since I flashed my first no CIQ ROM. Is there a relation between the two? I was told by people on this forum it was probably due to work being done on the network,etc but I haven't been able to update even profile ever since. I have flashed almost every ROM since DK28 was an update.zip.zip...lol. Just curious. I have fixed permissions and tried all of the tricks. Could this be related? I am in SoCal and it seemed like I had an update once a month that would change either profile or PRL. All I get is the "error" message every time now and if it continues to contact Sprint. Its my understanding that 60676 is current version (I think) but I would rather get an up to date or current message rather than error. Any thoughts here?
[Epic 4G General] brickwall99:
Our hardware, we should be able to do whatever we want with it.

I can see Sprint's/Google's POV that using hacked firmware to steal a data connection is wrong, and they should prevent that, but they need to find another way.
[Epic 4G General] quik99:
A lot of the info that it collects is already out there but. 1. if they turned the logging on is it stored in a secure/encrypted location on my phone? 2. once they upload it how are they storing it? aka is are ex-sony employee's in-charge of securing the data? :confused: .

I dont like the idea of a log file with EVERYTHING thing i have done on my phone in one file. ya sprint can pull lots of this data or can sniff my packets etc but some of that is going to be a pain and illegal or would have to have a good reason (police request). They just call it logging and they can spy and record on us with no limits?
[Epic 4G General] nubsors:
I don't really agree with this. There is a world of difference in transition between apps, scrolling, viewing web pages... and just overall experience.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
One more thing... sorry... coffee time... I think this has become an issue because the ROMs are seen more and more as branded products, whether they are free or not, so these 'brands' will tend to compete for 'business' by any little edge they can get on each other... 'quadrant' (REALLY??? CMON KIDS...) scores, gimmicks, hell theming is just marketing at this point... I mean for their good or not, I have wanted to try the latest viper just for the hell of it, but I hate the colors, so I miss out on everything else the ROM has to offer. Maybe the people on these teams could offer an option of say kernel, base rom, individual tweak .zips (within reason), and themes in the theme section. I know it sounds like more work, but wouldn't it really be just making a flashable .zip out of each piece of the ROM BEFORE you put it all together?? I know ACS for example has a few themers, isn't it time consuming to pick which theme to permanantly attach to the ROM? It would seem creating a final 'package' from a team actually takes longer...

Yes, I know im not a Dev, and I should go do this myself, but I am actually asking for us to have the opportunity to do more of this ourselves, without having to start with source code, etc... some people learn better backwards. Having the BYOR options and journaling on or off was a huge thing for Rob... and it kept me with MidNight for a long time, because I had options....

Oh, and as much as I take issue with ACSs lack of understanding of how a decent gang runs (fight together, fall together, cant pick and choose), the comment about TV-out was unnecessary, as the thread CLEARLY states multiple times that its a work in progress... even if they are pissing in the wind, they are trying it for you. Now the FM on GB thing... once and for all, do we actually have an FM radio??? I heard forever the hardware was not there.... I dont really understand why it was included in rom features, EVEN WITH ymmv, ymmv implies a varying mileage, not whether you may or may not get a car with this ROM.... I wont be butthurt either way, just curious, I cannot read thru all of the ACS chatroom (edit:thread) to find out. Love you guys ACS, and all the devs, but im glad Noobnl is the devils advocate here... keeps things honest.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
When you buy dsl or cable internet, it makes no difference to them how many devices are hooked up to that one connection to the outside world, it shouldnt for carriers either. If they SELL unlimited data, they should stand by their word, if they sell tiered data, you should be able to use that data with whatever machines you like. the 30 dollar charge is like the cable installer 'home network setup charge', its an idiot fee... if you cant do it yourself, we will do if for you for a premium. This is a slippery slope, if you let them get away with control over your data usage, then were screwed. You know there are a lot of people very unhappy with the unwashed masses having full access to the internet for relatively cheap? The poor educating themselves is dangerous to corporations. Thats as far as I will go with that... back to data... do you want them to pull a comcast and throttle your use based on type of data traffic? Do you want them to sell you bandwidths they cant deliver? (they do, but its not as bad as with ISPs) Do you want real tiered data as we move to true pocket PCs, and phone just being a feature? I dont mind paying a reasonably high price for my data, but I want to use it how I like (even if I tether for maybe a half hour a month). Hell I get **** sprint coverage at my house, and its just this neighborhood, so I use roam control, after my credit not allowing me to get my free airrave so it can use MY Fios connection if they want to piggyback one way, I wanna go the other.

Just realised you werent clear you were referring to tethering... I dont support anything that is actually ILLEGAL, or cannot be discussed here on XDA... that is different.
[Epic 4G General] poit:
Our hardware, THEIR network. We just rent space on it. They have every right to control the use of THEIR network, protect it from abuse and damage, and make a profit with it.
[Epic 4G General] KennyG123:
Sounds like someone sold out and is working for Sprint now....LOL.

Do you BONSAI?
[Epic 4G General] KillerFu:
Yes their network but as stated above its our hardware. How much control should they have over something we own to protect their interest? When do their interest overcome our rights?
[Epic 4G General] ET923:
Way I see it, it all comes down to choice, and that's always a good thing. Want CIQ? Use it. Don't want it? Then don't.

Offering people choice will always be a benefit. Isn't the lack of choice considered one of the main drawbacks of the iPhone after all?
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
I pay for unlimited data, (I know theres a roam limit...), that means unlimited data. If there is fine print that says otherwise, than unlimited is not really unlimited, therefore false advertising. Nothing about CIQ or tethering relate to any potential damage to the network. If anything, leaving an unlocked door, closed, but unlocked, sitting on our phones creates a bigger security threat. A third party could hack our phones, and potentially have access to all the data needed to clone our phones, our CC#s, etc.... rack up a huge ringtone bill on somebodys contract and have them say F U im not paying... theres all sorts of possibilities.

I honestly dont care about the positive implementations that Sprint has for CIQ, better network, etc... but that would logically be the EASIEST thing for them to get access to on their side, whereas our messages, calls, dirty pics, etc. would be harder, if even legal (probably mentioned in aforementioned BS fine print, I know).

Seriously, carriers get outta hand with this, Im all for a neutered, all but usesless android PHONE that has everything else stripped, and ill use a Tablet for everything else, also circumventing sprints awesome software destruction team. Why the hell does anyone need geotagging info from my pics? If I want it, I should be able to store it locally on my phone... or if I want to enable it to some retarded 'social' network site... so be it. Sprint or anyone else on that side have no business with that info, nor access to it.

Strip the spying, keep the basic 'metrics'. Stop paying for CIQ and build more or upgrade the f*cking towers!
[Epic 4G General] BeerChameleon:
Why i think this thread is BullSh*t:

Boring stupid thread :p
[Epic 4G General] rgregg504:
Nah ext4 big difference in real world feel and benchmarks. Ciq removal gained a little on benchmarks but feels the same
[Epic 4G General] ecooce:
WoW noobnl, I think kOnane just turned over in his grave, only been back a couple days and the **** storm is already bigger then before, you now how to start ****, Ill give you that ;) ...

As for branding, ofcourse ROMs have branding, don't all works of art, but I always refuse to promote, I would rather tell people to try them all if they have the time. As for themes being in the ROM, that's just the creator's view of what a ROM should be, I make mine with knowing people will change the theme, or kernel first, so why not make it the way I use it. And the BYOR was an awesome idea, but I think I was the first one to offer packs that could be modded easily before install without touching or worrying about what can be removed from the ROM itself, I will say that Rob added the scripts to make it even easier, but you would need to DL that huge file, mine are seperated, but that's neither here nor there . It dosnt matter we share ideas and that's that.

For all the smoke that gets blown up peoples asses, like the magic button, FM radio works, and some others, that's just the way things work, its political/ego/ and just plan life. I would never mis-lead anyone about anything that goes into a ROM, like Viper has done, not bad mouthing the team at all, but its been proven that some of the scripts didn't work.

NoCIQ, it needed to be removed period, just like the Asphalt demo that couldn't be removed without voiding your warranty, which was the biggest file, and 100% worthless, since you could DL from market and move to sd. I for one feel better CIQ is gone, but I'm not stupid in thinking we can't be trackid/recorded anytime of the day by big brother, it just a sign of the times, more technology, easier to be watched at any given time. Imagine in the not so distant future, a bank get robbed, the FeDS then check phone records to see who was in the area, those people become suspects. Or somone is shot and killed on the streets, the cops will be able to see who was there at that time (of the shot being reported,or time of death) just by looking at phone records,gps data, who goes any where without their phone, hell kids have phones now, its the absolute best tracking device atm, and the government is lovving it and hating people like kOnane that may try to figure out how to remove said tracking services...

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[Epic 4G General] josidhe:
Meh, one of the first things I learned ever since following SDX in my Moment days was that hackers and their ilk, in spite of being surrounded by ones, zeroes, and a whole world of technical science, are some off the most hysterically paranoid and superstitious people on the internet. Indeed, the geekier the forum, the more superstitious people seem to be.

Geeks have bizarre obsessions with rituals (wipe 3x!) and perception (my phone FEELS faster), and a lack of perspective in a lot of really common sense areas: getting a new phone with a steep discount for a new 2 year contract (meaning the cost of your phone is subsidized by monthly bills, and early termination results in a fee to recover hardware costs), yet somehow shake their fists at the heavens insisting the phone is their property absolutely.

Iono, there's an underlying silliness in this culture, and not the cute kind, but we all shrug and accept it out of the superstitious fear that looking at things differently might ruin it all.

Samsung is evil and hates us, even while all custom firmware work depends entirely on Samsung's continued efforts.

Sprint is evil and wants to steal all your information...that they already have anyway.

Meh, I'm over it.
[Epic 4G General] schnowdapowda:
I like this guy. unlimited means unlimited if they choose to impose LIMITS on us like not allowing us to tether and use all of the data we want on our unlimited plan then it is simply not unlimited at all. therefore false advertising. and on a side note i dont know about GB but i know for sure ive used FM radio on my epic (froyo). i believe it was through the moto music app and it required a headset to be plugged in for signal.
[Epic 4G General] ptfdmedic:
Why now? That's my question. Why wait to the person responsible for the work isn't here to defend themselves?
[Epic 4G General] noobnl:
You guys are discussing stuff that you were afraid of.

Wow, you are talking like a mature adult now and didn't start a flame war. :P

I love to hear opinions about the anti-CIQ fuss.
[Epic 4G General] TheDub:
Has their been any proof that CIQ is used in any way to benefit Sprint's network? Do their other Android phones have this software package installed? What about their Windows 7 phone, their future iPhone, will they have CIQ? Does the Nexus S have CIQ? (no it doesn't). I've read the Samsung Moment had it, so maybe it's a Samsung specific thing.

Point is.. I think in all honestly Sprint has other ways of collecting network performance and statistics.

With all of the logging features perhaps it was more of a hidden switch that could be turned on in the event of a warrant being issued or something similar. That's perhaps far fetched.

Or maybe in the days of terrorism it's a we suspect this person of something lets track him. (Isn't spying legal now thanks to the Patriot Act? Whatever I'm NOT about to get into politics ;)) <--- Perhaps even MORE far fetched. #pickingatstraws

Bottom line is if the phone runs faster, remove it. Why the argument? Even if hypothetically they collect network information using it we make up a very small percentage of overall users and won't make a difference on network performance, Sprint isn't going to run and build a new tower because you live in the boon docks.

Again I'm pretty sure all network related information is handled by the tower... I'm sure the tower has information like how many users are connected, their signal strengths, how much data who is using, etc, etc.
[Epic 4G General] bricky23:
You are one sick sob. Love it.
[Epic 4G General] ecooce:
Someone has to be first ;)

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[Epic 4G General] XtaC318:
Noob, you're a drama starting child. You always have been, so it seems like it won't change. Why hang around here if you're just going to try and destroy what we've 'built' on the way things run around here now. Things were **** while you were here, and it'll go back to that way if you continue ranting about seemingly useless arguments.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
youre welcome to move on... or say something intelligent, your choice.

This. As far as I can tell... does noCIQ actually improve SPEED, or just remove waste of space? Just talking performance here...

Glad you're over it... ever heard of inflated MSRP so you can have 'sales' and 'discounts'? They aren't losing a cent by giving you an 'upgrade discount' when it comes with a contract that they MAKE A PROFIT ON. The device is yours, receipt indicates so. Its not a DVR leased from your cable company, its YOURS. Using their service is the question here, and the BS they want to go with it... there is no question of ownership. Its actually 100 dollars to read my thread posts, but I'll give you a discount, free! (sarcasm, not actually trying to charge for anything XDA gods).
[Epic 4G General] twolostminds:
Just an FYI, CarrierIQ is on every Android phone, except for the Nexus S, that is in Sprint's current phone line up. When I contacted Sprint they claimed they had no choice about the software being on the phone, saying it was a Samsung thing. When I contacted Samsung they claimed that, yes they installed it on the phone, but only because Sprint required it.

I am currently moving up the food chain with both companies to try and get some kind of truth out of them.
[Epic 4G General] ghostrid3r:
Have fun with that hot potatoe. :D

Might get better results publicizing the matter through twittter, blog, and/or phanroid or some site of that nature.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
Drama is backdoor conversations, or perhaps posts that add nothing to the thread, other than to voice your frustration in lack of anything to contribute.

Really? Things were worse??? Either you weren't here, or you have a poor memory, BTW, is your phone rooted? CWM?

This isn't drama, its a discussion on the pros and cons of a mod being done, if you can't play like a grownup, you're welcome to not post anything... its cool...

I like that this **** is being brought out, oh and im pretty sure konane would/will post if he chooses to elaborate on this... its his choice... and Im actually surprised I havent seen half screen ACS images in this thread yet. must be a timezone thing.

I hope its clear that I like some aspects of CIQ, if they are indeed there and useful to US, and I really dont like some aspects, as I know they are an invasion of privicy, and unnecessary for them to even have access to.

Geotagging will not save any babies from crazed criminals, all it will do is increase the security state. And as for the comment about 'the age of terrorism', read a book, its just now hit our shores from an ouside force, what about the first fed bldg? We are just so shocked because we, the Nato nations have rarely seen any terror attacks on our soil, instead we prop up dictators to do it for us on other peoples soil. Ask Palestinians and Israelites how new terrorism is... Besides, the big players in WWII really started the idea of attacking civilians as part of a war... ask londoners or berliners who were around when the bombs were dropped. State sanction makes attacking civilians for military/political/religious ends no better... its all the same.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
If it is harmless... then they should have no problem with accountability and transparency.

Soooo Noob, do you know exactly what parts actually benefit us? I wouldnt mind those, and lose the spy ****.
[Epic 4G General] offtohavasu:
Also, don't forget the tin foil hats. MLB is reading our minds.
[Epic 4G General] poit:
Funny how we are paranoid about what Sprint and Samsung put in phones, but at the same time we put ROMs from anonymous developers on our phones and load in all our passwords, contacts, and data.

By the way, I hope everyone goes to CIQ's website and reads exactly what they claim to do.

http://www.carrieriq.com/overview/index.htm
[Epic 4G General] thomasskull666:
Troll

10char
[Epic 4G General] ptfdmedic:
When k0nane and ACS figured out how to remove the Carrier IQ he provided the community with more than just his "opinion". I find the timing of this very interesting. If you are saying k0nane is wrong and CIQ is harmless, then where's your proof? Can you provide us with something more than just your opinion because honestly dude, I don't believe anything that you have to say anymore.

I challenge you to ACTUALLY back up your claims. Provide us with information to substantiate your beliefs. If you can't, then I ask what the point of this thread is. Aside form tearing apart and putting down a VERY well respected developers work? I don't think this is to much to ask, do you?

This is the information that k0nane gave us in regards to Carrier IQ:
[Epic 4G General] poit:
Tethering and CIQ are two unrelated things, why try to connect them?

Um.....one of the uses of CIQ is for the carrier to figure out how to improve service. It allows them to "build more or upgrade the f*cking towers" where they are most needed.
[Epic 4G General] gdbassett:
I'm a security guy so I'll put it in security terms. There's network ids and host based ids. They overlap in some places, but from an individual host standpoint, the hids always has more info. And when the device can be on different networks, they most certainly don't see all of my network traffic.