yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Epic 4G General] zanderman112:
Guess not. I always liked tw, but this makes it even better.

Sent from the ony thing i need.
[Epic 4G General] ecooce:
I gotta look into this further, TW optimized mmmmmmmm...

Help support autism awareness,it only takes 2 seconds to help make a difference...

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[Epic 4G General] megabiteg:
Quit the talking and start coding then, help the other devs get CM done and you may (and only then) vindicate yourself.
[Epic 4G General] CrfEpic4g:
Hes gunna do whatever the hell he wants do and i doubt hes gunna do that
[Epic 4G General] DroidApprentice:
Well, I'm still using it. And I think my tastes overall pretty good.

I like trying new themes and apps, but Android is decent without much tinkering and TouchWiz may be around the right level. I have owned my Epic since last November and if I didn't like the UI I would have tried another by now.

That's not to say I never will, but Samsung didn't foul up at least. I'll be surprised if Gingerbread TouchWiz is noticeably different, although I am intrigued by v4.0 on the SGS 2, since it's been highly praised and the videos are interesting.
[Epic 4G General] chris41g:
you all realize everyone who has an epic is using touchwiz right?? unless you are on CM, or MIUI or some other rare AOSP port instance... its more than just a launcher.. its the entire framework... and thats what noobnl is getting at..
[Epic 4G General] DroidApprentice:
So a launcher you get from the Market which changes the theme of your phone is nothing but an overlay, or what? I can disable TW in app controls. I used the plain Android launcher after clearing the default and decided I liked TW enough to go back to it. At least, I tried it in Eclair. If that option is missing from Froyo or later versions, that's news to me.
[Epic 4G General] chris41g:
TWLauncher.apk is just the Touchwiz based launcher... your phone is still using the touchwiz framework and there isn't anything you can do to get rid of that short fo flashing MIUI CM7 or AOSP, which are all only semi functioning......
[Epic 4G General] ptfdmedic:
He's not referring to the UI, launcher, widgets, ect. TouchWiz is Samsung's UI, just like HTC has Sense. He speaking to the optimizations Samsung makes to Android to in order to take advantage of the proprietary hardware. You'll notice this right away if you use the Nexus S. No codec support, the camera is a step down from the Epic (at least software wise) and it doesn't pull the same frames per sec the Epic can. Samsung does work some magic with the Galaxy S phones. If you don't believe that then play with a Nexus S and you'll see many of the advantages that the Epic has over the Nexus S.......

Think of it the same way you would a computer. Most run windows but OEM's tend to optimize or customize the windows installation to take advantage of the their specific hardware.

Nice post Noobnl :)
[Epic 4G General] DroidApprentice:
I see. So (let me understand and correct if necessary) noobnl's original post is to let us know that we basically are going to have particularly good code for TW-sourced ROMs in Android 2.3 due to better hardware optimization?

This makes sense in light of Samsung making Google's latest flagship phone, I guess.
[Epic 4G General] ptfdmedic:
TouchWiz is a blessing and a curse. I detest the UI and that fact that it makes development more difficult. However, Sammy's version of Android is optimized for the Galaxy S hardware, drivers, ect. Although the same could probably be said about most devices. OEM's will generally optimize their versions of any OS to take advantage of their own hardware.
[Epic 4G General] muyoso:
He's basically saying that AOSP is like when you just install Windows and its using the generic Windows GPU driver and its all wonky and just scrolling a web page is glitchy, but it works with literally every video card in existence. Touchwiz is like installing the newest Nvidia or ATI driver so that the OS knows exactly what hardware you have and how to utilize it, so the experience is as optimized as it can be. Cyanogenmod is somewhere inbetween those two points.
[Epic 4G General] InfDaMarvel:
I thought this was common knowledge.
[Epic 4G General] muyoso:
I think for XDA members it is.
[Epic 4G General] The Root:
Thanks everyone, this post is making a lot more sense now and I like it.
[Epic 4G General] DroidApprentice:
I appreciate the informative responses, even if I am too lazy to use my browser to thank you at the moment. I understand the PC hardware and OS architecture better than Android, and even that is pretty basic. It's amazing to consider that cell phones with full OSes capable of doing most of the same things a notebook or desktop PC can do are still a relatively new trend.
[Epic 4G General] Poryhack:
I understand where you were going with this but the analogy is just not a good one. OEMs will make sure you have the right drivers, but beyond that they are doing anything but optimizing your Windows experience. New PCs are usually loaded with so much crapware and other miscellaneous junk that you're better off wiping everything, installing Windows from scratch, and hunting down the drivers you need.

Unfortunately that applies to Android OEMs as well, the only difference is that you can't get the drivers anywhere else. If you wanna remove the bloat you've gotta hack away at what you're given... But you already know all about that being a chef yourself.
[Epic 4G General] austin420:
Great....

More **** for apple to sue over. B.s.
[Epic 4G General] ptfdmedic:
I agree, I was just trying to clarify in a general sense. The point is that the manufacturer of a device would most likely optimize the OS for their particular hardware. I was referring to drivers, ect. I should have been more clear about that. But you are correct. :) The first thing I do with ANY computer is start with a clean copy of windows.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
+9000 to that. In fact thats my malware fighting system, if it gets past my firewalls... I just wipe and reload. I have rarely had any personal data infected...

Anyways, I think these are some good posts for the newer people (this and the file system thread, etc.) as these questions are getting asked again, and some of the original threads are waaaaay old at this point... these have been some quick info posts that people can read and possibly keep the ROM threads a little thinner. But I am glad to hear that the deeper imbedded aspects of TW are actually the good ones... the UI is ok to me, but I just keep going back to launcherpro. Iam loving the ee03 leaks, but no matter what batt life just sux for me.. maybe need to get a new battery... idunno... but point is, GB is looking good so far, and a lot better than what I read of the first impressions of the EVOs GB... but it may be the same thing... shoot out an update then patch it up later... idunno...
[Epic 4G General] Zor Omega:
So when gingerbread hits, would we be better off sticking with a TW framework rom rather than going Cyanogen Mod, or AOSP? I've always been a fan of AOSP roms, because they are more minimalistic, but if were going to be missing out on some key features...

Will Cyanogen incorporate some of these advatages?

Personally one of the big reasons I chose the Epic over the Evo...beside the keyboard was because of the various codec's supported and the better camera.
[Epic 4G General] muyoso:
With AOSP type roms you will gain overall speed, but lose things like hardware acceleration for video. The epic plays mkv. files and avi files natively right now with full hardware acceleration up to 720p and you will not be able to play those files on cm7 or aosp roms.

That's just one of the things that samsung has added to make android better.
[Epic 4G General] gTen:
Well what makes the bigger difference between Samsung making optimizations and other OEMs making optimizations is Samsung is the one who created the processor to begin with...that gives them an upper hand..

Would it be possible to build CM7, then splice the TW framework on top of it? or reverse engineer the TW framework and integrate the optimizations without it?

See we gotta move off TW whether we like it or not..simply because we can't be stuck on TW 3.0 forever..and 4.0 I'm guessing is optimized for the dual cores..not our Hummingbirds..so we gotta move on one way or another..
[Epic 4G General] arashed31:
The HD videos play off of Neon in the Cortex-A8 right? Also, MKV is just a container. Android can already decode h.264 and AAC, Samsung just made a parser for the files.

The guys at ODROID have development tablets using the same S5PC110 SoC that we have. They also have fully published code on decoding WMV, MKV, and AVI files.

I'm not a dev but I'm sure the documentation and code can have some use.

http://odroid.foros-phpbb.com/t102-source-code-to-add-new-codecs-and-containers-mkv-flv-ac3
[Epic 4G General] Zor Omega:
That's what I'm talking about. Splicing some of the better "features" and optimizations into cm7. That would be the best of both worlds.

From cellblock D
[Epic 4G General] xjman:
Noobnl. I'll put the ns4g up against your Epic any day. And I'll run stock.

You spout off a ton about crap you can't prove man.
[Epic 4G General] azyouthinkeyeiz:
Ditto..

I thought that's exactly what has been explained about TW since it's inception.. A hummingbird optimized android experience.. Heavily tied to the GPU..
[Epic 4G General] azyouthinkeyeiz:
And who are you and what have you ever done, besides lambasting people who are smarter than you with a plethora of incompetence, on an anonymous forum?
[Epic 4G General] xjman:
Well lets see, I'm the guy who made the kernels for noobnl's moment roms that made him a somebody. I'm also the guy who called him out for "borrowing" almost all of his work from leshak at samdroid.

You can find me at SDX under MeatCurtains, but hey thanks for playing. Noob doesn't know, he pulls armys of crap out of his ass, but because he is NOOBNL!!!!11!!! his word is god.

Lets see, he worked how long on CM6... got no where, in 1/10 the time the cm7 guys (whom noob riped on endlessly for not knowing what they are doing) fixed almost all of the issues noob couldn't get past.

I've worked with noob since he started developing, and I promise you most of his work was cloned samdroid work.
[Epic 4G General] schnowdapowda:
This thread is hilarious.

cd's or tapes?
[Epic 4G General] FrameCityJackal:
This goes for e-peens too right??
[Epic 4G General] ptfdmedic:
<<<<<<<<:D>>>>>>>>
[Epic 4G General] iSaint:
The guy who asked him that must be really ignorant...and oooo he got burned ... BURNEDDDD
[Epic 4G General] azyouthinkeyeiz:
I don't see any burn.. The one only thing I see is him saying people who follow what anyone states as fact is (in this case noob, which I've always said they don't know as much as they say they do, with that other group included) retarded. If you read, smart one, my post right before was also calling him out. Do you even know how to read? Or is all you can say "first" or "burn"..

How am I supposed to know who a person who's claim to fame is on another forum with a different username just by him calling someone out? Its not like I knew who a random person with no created posts was, by telepathy..

Now return to the "first" cave that you permanently reside, that's all you're good for.. You must be really ignorant, one trick pony, huh?

This forum is nothing but groupies... I miss the days where you could come here and learn, its just a front end for ROM releases anymore...

But back to the original topic, if you believe your Nexus is better, how are you to prove it sir?
[Epic 4G General] stir fry a lot:
It doesn't take telepathy to see that iSaint has over 100 more thanked posts than you. He is a contributing member and I think most of the groupies you speak of rally behind contributing members of XDA.
[Epic 4G General] iSaint:
Thanks dude... not even feeling like responding to this guy.
[Epic 4G General] ptfdmedic:
My only question is what did you have to do for those 100 thanks? :) :)

Kidding iSaint, you know I luv ya....well not that way...but you get me. :)
[Epic 4G General] iSaint:
... My services are kept confidential ;)

you should know that :p

just kidding bro :D keep up the good work :)
[Epic 4G General] ptfdmedic:
Come on man...iSaint is very well liked here. This isn't called for, nor is productive.
[Epic 4G General] xjman:
Sorry, at the time this account was created I didn't feel that MeatCurtains would have been accepted, found out I was wrong later and it became my SN for nearly everything. If you like you can go over there and I can pm you any number of things from my account if you have one.

We had to make our own forum because xda had no love for the samsung moment at that time.

You can believe what you want, but if you go to noobs moment roms and open the changes he made you can find the exact change he used posted on samdroid days earlier, and noob claimed he did most of it. Noob borrowed a lot of things, his original root methods. Ask joeykrim (member here) about noobs original method, and that noob totally didn't rip him off or anything.

The problem here is you don't see the development community that is greater than xda. A lot of great developers stay away because of people like noobnl, dearmasfamily (gotromz or something here). These people get all kinds of prise for very little to no work.
[Epic 4G General] dreamsforgotten:
Xjman we are definitely in agreement on most of what you said. Noobnl makes a comment and minions jump aboard. He hadn't produced much of any original work them or now. Hes talked major **** on the devs who actually succeeded at the goals they have set for themselves. He had also spread much mis information for whatever reasons he has. The only place we split is on dearma because when the drama hit, I was receiving plenty of help from him, he was always open with me and willing to share what he knew unlike many of the other devs who told me figure it out for yourself but thats not of importance just saying. I seriously don't try to just hate on noobnl every post he makes but once again they are normally hating on devs who do share their knowledge to build newbs to their level as well as flat out lie about them. I feel its important for those seriously trying to learn something here to know when someone is feeding them bull****. anyone I have accomplished on the phone, be it themeing or deving, I have supplied in dept guides on how to shorten the learning curve from someone starting fresh. I feel this is the best approach you can possibly take as a dev and a much bigger help t to yourself and the community. One day someone you walked through the beginning steps can come back and help you with an even bigger project your stuck on in the future. Take this as an example I helped maddoggin learn how to use his computer back when he didn't even know what msdos was. Fast forward to now this dude successfully taught himself smali and ported the lockscreen app to the epic in 1 year. Now hes helping me port it to the nexus. Imagine now if I had told him to read and figure it out himself in the beginning epic wouldn't have a lockscreen app and the nexus wouldn't in the future either. Thats only two people now we need to teach the rest here and start a true open source community!
[Epic 4G General] TheDub:
If TouchWiz were the most optimized version of Android for the Hummingbird processor why does AOSP on the Nexus S 4G outperform TouchWiz on the Epic..
[Epic 4G General] dreamsforgotten:
Because aosp is now built on the hummingbird and is optimized for it :D
[Epic 4G General] johnjjschmidt:
Not exactly what you were looking for but maybe this might help a bit.

http://www.laptopmag.com/review/cel...s-s-4g.aspx?mode=benchmarks&cids=2325,1769,pa
[Epic 4G General] muyoso:
BTW, the reason people jump on to defend noobnl is that they are scared that all developers are leaving this phone and they will be left with nothing but stock roms. Many of us have already lost hope that CM7 or a true AOSP or MIUI will be ported fully. I hope I/we are wrong about that, but certainly the incentive to develop for the Epic is diminishing on a daily basis with several new amazing phones coming to Sprint in the next few days/months.
[Epic 4G General] noobnl:
Exactly, I don't want to be defended.. My time is done here. Give some hope to CM7 team port the Nexus S kernel.
[Epic 4G General] dreamsforgotten:
I got both in my hand now, bone stock each smart bench 2011 which is what you asked for which btw is a dual core bench test

Nexus 917 2380

Epic 879 2246

Re ran with smartbench

Nexus 1128

Epic	2899

Bone stock now when I oc to 1.4 I break 3000

Epic 1047 2372
[Epic 4G General] silver03wrx:
I just ran smart bench for the first time my epic srf. 1.1.1 1.3ghz. 1147 2530
[Epic 4G General] dreamsforgotten:
Nexus 1.4g

Almost broke 4
[Epic 4G General] silver03wrx:
Wow crushd mine. Lol.
[Epic 4G General] xjman:
That's about right. I bench the same with a stock rom and netarchy's kernel.

I've seen the productivity spike to around 1500.
[Epic 4G General] dreamsforgotten:
Thats my setup deodex over netarchy 1.4 set to performance with a lot running
[Epic 4G General] schnowdapowda:
I definitely think we need gingerbreads hummingbird optimisations to bench this fully. And I'm not talkin about no leaky ginger either we need a finalized product.

cd's or tapes?
[Epic 4G General] ecooce:
Meat your my hero man, I know he got most of his fame from your awesome kernels...

Help support autism awareness,it only takes 2 seconds to help make a difference...

http://picketfenceblogs.com/vote/3616
[Epic 4G General] dreamsforgotten:
Not quite, I don't run ext 4 on my epic. Can't stand the instability of it, hence it says bone stock.
[Epic 4G General] ptfdmedic:
Curious. Do you find ext4 w/journaling off/on to be unstable. I have experienced instability with journaling off.
[Epic 4G General] xjman:
I don't see the official 2.3 for the epic really comparing. In nearly every case just a functional compile of the aosp runs better and has less issues with bogging down.

I don't see benchmarking being that accurate because they are so easy to fool and no one will ever get a real "apples to apples" comparison.

The picture i attached is a quadrant from sprints cheapo lg phone. Its not using the fs cheat we use.
[Epic 4G General] azyouthinkeyeiz:
Journaling off by definition is instability, because the filesystem does not self check or log any errors.. Journaling is the filesystem logging all changes to any file, so that in the event of power failure or reboot, it can revert to the previous changes, (ie stability) The only reason to disable Journaling is for the added CPU boost by removing logging because it is a redundant task(stability)...
[Samsung Infuse 4G] rblankman:
so, who's waiting in anticipation for the 3000+ ma battery for this infuse?
[Samsung Infuse 4G] tankmorph:
Not me! The thinness and lightness of this phone is the only thing that makes the giant screen tolerable IMHO.
[Samsung Infuse 4G] bella92108:
+1
[Samsung Infuse 4G] Optimus-Prime:
why would you... i don't even know why people need extra battery. like for reals I am a teen meaning i text browse the web listen to music like crazy and i get through the day at night with about 28% battery (last night).

and now that i got my iPod back battery should last even longer.

i really do not understand why people obsess over battery a lot. like don't you all go home and charge your phone??

i would understand if you phone isn't keeping charge then obsess over the battery but other than that it just pointless to me...

my 2 cents.
[Samsung Infuse 4G] bella92108:
HAHA. This wins the award for best post ever.

1) "like for reals I'm a teen..." ... that statement alone identifies this kid as the guy we all made fun of cause he was annoying and always corrected the teached.

2) like for reals dude, maybe you should spend more time in school because you'll quickly learn that no matter how many times a day you tweet that you just ate pizza for lunch, it doesn't compare to the data usage a corporate user that has multiple exchange accounts syncing constantly changing calendar, contacts, docs, and OCS chatter.

3) Sorry if it's not a big deal if your battery runs low and you're unable to jerk off to Justin Bieber's new video in the bathroom stall between getting beat up on the bus and getting beat up in first period... but to some people there's a bit more at stake when their phone stops functioning.

Oye... I need a shower. haha
[Samsung Infuse 4G] hoofadoo:
Wow... You've been aggravating me the last few days with your rude, snarky posts. Leave people alone if you do not have anything productive to say. This isn't like some general forum to flame people in..

It is an android development forum, and if you cannot provide any useful feedback, instead of just flaming other users, then why dont you just stop...
[Samsung Infuse 4G] bella92108:
Are you illiterate? I was responding to a flaming post. I clearly explained why someone might want to have a longer battery, because the poster portrayed that battery life should not be a consideration.

If you don't like my opinions, you're free to block me.... but don't post your opinion and say others cannot do the same, that makes you a hypocrite. Your entire post is exactly what you're *****ing about other people doing.
[Samsung Infuse 4G] hoofadoo:
Ya okay... First of all, Transformer27's post was not attacking anyone directly. Then you go ahead and respond by flaming all over him, ripping him to shreds, for what he posted, and how he posted it, and making fun of him directly as a person...

Your calling me a hypocrite? its not hypocritical to call someone out on abuse, sorry.
[Samsung Infuse 4G] bella92108:
Everyone's entitled to their opinion.
[Samsung Infuse 4G] Optimus-Prime:
dam seriously guys/girls

first, i do pay attention in school just because I am tweeting and face book and listen to music, doesn't mean i don't pay attention, im actually graduating today :D top 10%!

second, i have my email accounts, calendars, and pretty much everything synced up to 1 hour intervals, college papers for my summer course are done through Google docs so yes i use a **** load of data to get my **** done.

and third, Justin Bieber dude really? that was so unnecessary if your going to put something some thing like that at least put porn hub or some thing else. get with the program... Justin Bieber... pffft.
[Samsung Infuse 4G] cmjkxa:
So the weather is pretty nice out today in sandy eggo.
[Samsung Infuse 4G] Grim Reaper:
hahahahahahahahahaha
[Samsung Infuse 4G] Cohdee:
I agree with hoofadoo. Bella, he was merely stating his opinion. No reason to attack him. My opinion on the battery differs from his as well, but I don't feel a need to flame him. Play nice. :)
[Samsung Infuse 4G] Optimus-Prime:
LMAO at the weather.

i just think it really defeats the purpose of having the thinnest smartphone in the states.

and now that we have roms, battery life gets better from here. im currently running at 63% percent unplugged since 9:50is am. that more than 12 hours already and still have more than half.
[Samsung Infuse 4G] Grim Reaper:
I think we can all agree its good idea "IF" you need it to carry around a small portable external charger. That way no one looses the thinness or the light wighteness of the phone.

I might not need an "Executive" account to know that battery life on smart phones usually suck, but I am a teen and the "Constant " twitter posts I put out there leave me with battery to spare at the end of the day.

PS. I don't have a twitter. Lol

My thoughts on the subject.

Sent with my Infused Infuse using XDA Premium App
[Samsung Infuse 4G] NeoS:
And that's where you're wrong. You can have an opinion, but it it's rude to another person, i'd like you to keep it to yourself. You can correct someone, but stay polite. I don't like the tone you're setting.

Thread closed.