yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Thunderbolt Android Development] djkeller3:
That's not all that hot in my opinion. It would cause me to keep an eye on my temps, but certainly would not worry me in the slightest.

My Incredible would occasionally hit 130° with no problems, not even a reboot. My OG Droid could go as high as 140° and then boot loop. The problem with the OG was that amy online activity at all would cause it to heat up instantly, and four some reason, if I was running Bugless Beast it would hit 125° almost immediately and reboot or boot loop.

Point is, these phones will shut down if they get too hot. I don't think anyone's CPU is going to fry from heat alone. I think it's a long shot even with over-clocking thrown in.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
Not sure if ur quoting me on the heat frying it or not but let me clairfy what I meant. I am talking about running the chip so low on memory it reboots....do this over and over for a period of time your going to kill it. AGAIN MY THEORY......I feel this is caused from gingerbread not closing processes when they are done and allowing them to continue running.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jaysckap:
Im not worried I was just sayin it was fine. My incredible you could fry an egg on and its still goin strong
[Thunderbolt Android Development] djkeller3:
Oh I agree with this. And I wasn't knowingly quoting anyone. :)
[Thunderbolt Android Development] djkeller3:
Yeah, the good old Dinc will always be one of the all-time best Verizon ever had. I think the T-Bolt will be as well. And I'm not the least bit afraid of bricking now. :-0
[Thunderbolt Android Development] distortedloop:
Care to explain the mechanics of your theory? Reboots because too much RAM is filled will cause physical damage to the CPU...? No way in my opinion; the same physical stresses are put on the CPU whether it's a random or intentional reboot aren't they?
[Thunderbolt Android Development] JS0724:
Theory...

Here's a THEORY. The problem of continuous reboots happens on many different electronic devices. My theory involves thermal paste failure. Just search google and you will find many discussions regarding continuous reboots on many different devices including game consoles, computers, and yes, even cell phones.

I've seen an extremely similar scenario to Thunderbolt bricks occur with my own Playstation 3. Basically, thermal paste wears down over time (much quicker in high heat situations). Once thermal paste is compromised two things can occur. First, hottest components cannot transfer heat away as fast since thermal paste conducts heat faster than air. Second, internal components can actually make contact with each other, throwing up instant red flags within firmware. Essentially, system boots, warning is triggered, and system reboots in an attempt to avoid hardware failure, even if system is in recovery mode. The reason that devices seem perfect until brick occurs, is that there is never actually any physical damage to hardware. That's why the failsafe is in place afterall, to save the hardware.

Here are some things to consider when applying this to bricking scenario happening with Thunderbolts. These are just my personal observations.

-I do not find it difficult to believe that HTC would cut costs when manufacturing phones. Just look at your cheap plastic battery cover.

-Thunderbolt has not been out that long. It would take some time for thermal paste to fail.

-At the time that bricks started popping up, a huge percentage of the rooted community was experimenting with Gingerbread, so it's not hard to believe that it would coincidentally happen to those on Gingerbread.

-For all we know, this could be happening to many "average" users on Froyo who don't root or visit forums about their phone often. The average Joe would just take phone to Verizon for replacement.

-For most, the weather has recently been hotter than it was when the phone first came out.

-Many people (myself included) feel that Gingerbread runs warmer temperature wise than Froyo, even if it is not overheating.

This is just my personal observation, based on very similar problem I have encountered in the past. I am in no way saying I am right or that anyone else's theories are wrong. I am not a developer, so to me, this is what comes to mind when I hear an electronic device is stuck in a boot loop. Some of you will be surprised how much information you can find regarding same problem among other electronic devices.

I honestly hope this is not the case, because we would all be susceptible to a sudden brick whether on Froyo or Gingerbread, rooted or stock.

Don't worry, I have seen the attacks on others who have voiced their OPINIONS/IDEAS, so I have my flame suit on.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] azturbomini:
I think it's plausible and a good theory.

Shot from my BAMFing Gingerbreaded (Rom "O" Death) T-Bolt
[Thunderbolt Android Development] djkeller3:
Wow... good stuff. Makes me want to drop from my usual 1.4Ghz, min and max, down to 1Ghz and see if my equalizer still force-closes! :D

By the way, I thought what you were saying about under-clocking made perfect sense. And, I've found myself doubting more and more if the radio actually had anything to do with the bricking that got all the attention a few days ago.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Archangel:
perfectly said thank you!
[Thunderbolt Android Development] distortedloop:
I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but none of it addresses what I challenged, which was the assertion I thought you were making along the lines of gingerbread has poor memory management, which leads to low memory states, which leads to a random reboot, which causes physical damage to the CPU.

What I'm reading in your quoted post below are explanations of how running a component outside of approved tolerances can cause damage to the CPU which could then lead to random reboots or total failure. Perhaps I misunderstood your original assertions, but your explanation does not address the original post you made that I quoted. If it does, and I'm being dense, please tell me so and highlight in bold the passage that does so that I can improve my knowledge here.

Either way, your post quoted below does give one good reason to reconsider the merits of overclocking/undervolting their hardware.

Thanks for the reply.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Makaveli1490:
Ok I flashed GB remix last night

I left my phone this morning and when I came from work, my phone was off. I think my mom may have turned it off, I have no idea. I hold the button. No response. Held it some more, still no response. So I took the back off, the battery in and out, then held it. It cut on

Couple minutes ago I decided to back it up. But back it up manually instead of rom mananger. I cut the phone off, the same thing happened again. I repeated the steps but held down the volume. I booted into recovery and after about 4 sec, I get the rom manager little hat picture. So I pulled the battery out quick. Started it back up normal. I restored froyo and radio and didn't have that problem

Mean anything ?
[Thunderbolt Android Development] TMYINC:
Almost sounds like the kernel you were running was too undervolted for your phone to handle. The new GB kernels are mostly test kernels as it is which can be a little buggy also.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] breakerfall:
I tried the latest (5/28) CM7 alpha and it still suffered from the wifi and data connectivity issues that made me give up on it last time.

Still no way I could use it as a "daily driver" like I was using BAMF 2.0-whatever.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
Its all good, but yes you are being rather dense as

I did state these key words

AGAIN MY THEORY

......I feel this is caused from gingerbread not closing processes when they are done and allowing them to continue running.

If you read back on my previous posts in this forum and another its kinda all there and sorry I'm not going to re-compile it...you just kinda hopped in a little late into my theories...I think others on here who have kept up understand what I mean. No offense..just lazy I guess.

**F' it adding links so everyone can understand what I am referring to**

Memory Leaks

Track Memory Allocations

Attacking Memory Problems

These links should give more than enough information for anyone to understand what I have meant in all my posts and should put it to rest. Happy Reading!!

But anyway I did notice something rather striking which brings up the battery issues again. I was getting reboots so long into startup over and over after flashing a new kernel..issues stopped after wiping the battery stats..if anyone else can try this if they are having these issues too and it works please PM me.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Cubs2008:
Figure I'd throw this out there that I had a random reboot while blaring out Pandora today. I had some insanity going kernel wise though so I kind of expected it at some point but I was around 110F on my battery temp right at the reboot (usually runs around 91-95F for me.) I was running Imo's 2.6.2 kernel with 184 unlocked and 1.92x/InteractiveX settings (managed through the speedtweak script.) Stock voltages too. Back of the unit was hot to the touch. I was also charging USB through a 3rd party dock.

I removed the battery and let the device cool down before flashing the updated kernel and now I'm running the non-184 kernel at 1.92x/iX and will keep an eye on the battery temp. :)

No brick for me...but I figured I'd throw some info on a random reboot out there.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] distortedloop:
You still haven't explained how a low memory induced reboot causes physical damage to the CPU in some way that is different than a regular reboot. It's a simple question and I won't call you dense for not seeing that and just giving a direct answer. ;-)

I certainly don't care enough about it to bother searching out your posts across for them. Discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.

Peace.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] crackedvenom2:
installed advanced task killer and there is like 20 apps running. i kill them and they come right back
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
Some apps need to stay running...on some task managers now under the ignore list there should be this option "BUILD RECOMMENDED IGNORE LIST" click on that and should clear a lot of them...any app for instance you have set to update is going to pop up often..like weather....if you were to have weather bug its going to show up to update the weather...mail is going to show to update mailbox...etc. biggest concern is going to be the memory hog apps like a browser of maps for. instance hope this helps

*I will add a recommended ignore list off the top of my head to last post*
[Thunderbolt Android Development] crackedvenom2:
Its like City ID, which i thought i deleted, My Verizon, Firefox, Netflix, MP3 Download Music, Music, Car Tunes. I dont think these ones should be firing themselves back up should they?

EDIT: THats probably why my damn battery is draining so fast. Firefox is 20mb, netflix is also around 20mb plus all the others running with it too.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
If you don't want city id..try deleting it with Titanium Backup ROOT(free), otherwise it will constantly run due to checking every incoming number.

Most of them just run to send anonymous data on the occasion or faster startup..it takes a toll on the device over time especially on this ROM leak. Mine I have kill on screen off..If you run them once and let it kill every hour or two the apps will probably stay running until the task manager kills them.

(I know there are going to be complaints of people saying its bad for the device, but its NOT..yes android tends to release memory after so long..BUT as I said before this ROM has an obvious memory leak and isn't releasing memory as it should.)
[Thunderbolt Android Development] crackedvenom2:
Thanks. Yeah i use root explorer and thought i had deleted it. Must have missed it. Also, i did have it kill them when the screen goes off too. So hopefully that will help with my battery problem
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jaysckap:
I would suggest freezing the apps opposed to using a task manager/killer. And as far as memory leak mine is fine
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
Memory leaks I'm talking /concerned bout are not noticeable, but more of an un-released script if that makes sense..by lowering the running apps it will run better by freeing more memory. This needs to be fixed within the ROM itself.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] JS0724:
The fact that you recommend using a task killer caused me to completely ignore the rest of your post. I'll pass LOL.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] djkeller3:
You are certainly more technical than I, and without a doubt work with this stuff much more than I do. However, I have yet to experience any benefit from having used a task killer. In general, the need for a task killer has been hotly debated in the past with various Android devices. I used a task killer for a while, and I was always having to mess with it due to certain apps that kept restarting (they were completely optional apps and had no need to run continuously), and yet, no matter how many apps I killed or how often I killed them, I gained NO performance boost. I eventually uninstalled it and have not used one for nearly two years, and don't feel any need whatsoever to start. I don't believe they are needed for any reason, nor do I believe task killers can improve Android performance in any way, shape, manner or form, much less with any Gingerbread ROM.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
I am gonna post a couple sections of the reasons NOT to run a task killer for starters.

Android was designed from the ground up as an operating system (OS) for mobile devices. Its

built-in application and memory-management systems were engineered with battery life as one of the most critical concerns.

The Android OS does not work like a desktop operating system. On a desktop OS, like Windows, Mac OS X, or Ubuntu Linux, the user is responsible for closing programs in order to keep a reasonable amount of memory available. On Android, this is not the case. The

OS itself automatically removes programs from memory as memory is needed. The OS may also preload applications into memory which it thinks might soon be needed.

After watching the whole Androidology series, I decided to let the OS do its thing with killing/running apps and processes. I have a task killer installed only to kill unresponsive apps that the OS can't kill for whatever reason (which by the way, is a fault generally of the app's developer(s). Not the phone or OS). And the

Android OS actually comes with it's own "Task Killer" for this purpose

, I just prefer to have easy "one-tap" (or close to it) access to such things.

Now the key sections here are the ones I underlined. This is all good for an official working released ROM...this is not the case with this gingerbread release. It is missing more than meets the eye on the inside. This is why its still considered "unstable" and why I hint at memory leak issues. New releases will address these issues.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] joshw0000:
Android 2.1 and below required a task killer. Froyo and beyond are supposed to have advanced memory management. I haven't used task killers since I had my Eris.

I don't want to discredit anyone because he may have a viable solution. Honestly I don't have enough knowledge of the Android framework to give a viable opinion on what caused the brickings but it seems to me like memory management would cause the phone to lag, lock, and eventually reboot. I don't see how it could brick a device. Again, I'm not trying to be a nay-sayer. I just don't follow the reasoning.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] loonatik78:
I'm going to second that thought. I stopped using a task killer shortly after flashing a custom ROM because there was nothing to kill. If I thought I needed to use on on a particular custom ROM, I'd be thinking I need a new ROM, not more junk to try to torture it into being what it should have been from day 1. Second, on a phone like the Tbolt, worrying about apps running in the background is like worrying about the grass fire in the back yard while the house burns. There are so many things that eat power and performance way before some background app. Like this massive screen, vibration options, WiFi when you're connected to nothing, same for Bluetooth... Some say manually kill the GPS but I've never seen that eat power when not used. Kernels make a big difference too, and frankly I'm too sure the newer kernels are better than those developed for other phones, which is why um still using the same one I used on my Incredible. Bad garbage collection does you no favors, shd neither does overly aggressive garbage collection. I guess my bottom line is that if I was running a ROM that needed a task killer, I'd just go back to a stock ROM.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
Electromigration​
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
This is why it is an ALPHA build or "TEST ROM" and feel it was released far too soon without proper testing, but this is still why its a TEST ROM
[Thunderbolt Android Development] rycheme:
I'm happy to provide any info I can. Been running GB since about a week post-release of the BAMF beta with no issues besides slow charging. I'm pc's at 1.2 ghz and do not use task killers.

Sent from my Thunderbolt das BAMF remix
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Mustang02:
nevermind.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] tedkord:
Well, I looked down today and noticed I'd finally grown a pair, so I flashed to BAMF 2.0-5. No issues so far, and I love the Sense 3.0 elements. MOTO, Sammy, and LG need to pay attention - this is how you skin Android. Shove blur and wiz and all the others up your arse.

Here's hoping I don't catch a bad case of brickitis. Thanks for your work, guys. Especially you, adryn. I've been benefiting from you since the omnia.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] loonatik78:
Well, what were calling a brick is a device that reboots in a loop. I'm no expert, pointing to the radio seems completely logical. It's not as if the radio is some static piece of software. It does write to memory if my thinking is correct.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] corenojoe:
Has there been any developments or any news at all recently? I miss GB in the worst way.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] rafaelvelasquez2:
Been over a week now on GB. still no issues.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] bdragon46:
I'm starting to think that the few bricks were either hardware failures, user error or both. Haven't seen any update on what could definitely be causing these bricks.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] WhosToBlame:
+1

I am tempted to go back to GB but since I bought my phone on Craigslist I would have to use an upgrade to replace this phone. I don't think I am ready to do that.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] thejondude:
ya i was gona buy some new socks yesterday... but then i didnt
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Noremacam:
How's that illegal??
[Thunderbolt Android Development] amaury48:
Just can't wait for a definite resolution. Went back to LGS 1.0 this morning. Data and cache wiped 5x just to be extra sure. Was getting 2-5 reboots daily after returning to LGS 1.5. maybe that was due to only wiping once before restoring froyo. Missed LGS too much.... Guess if it bricks, I'll see if I can report back with some info....

Wish me luck.......:rolleyes:
[Thunderbolt Android Development] amaury48:
Just can't wait for a definite resolution. Went back to LGS 1.0 this morning. Data and cache wiped 5x just to be extra sure. Was getting 2-5 reboots daily after returning to LTS 1.5. maybe that was due to only wiping once before restoring froyo. Missed LGS too much.... Guess if it bricks, I'll see if I can report back with some info....

Wish me luck.......:rolleyes:
[Thunderbolt Android Development] oc3rulz:
I am back on bamf 2.0 #5, no issues. If I brick I'll be mailing my spare thunderbolt to jcase for him to find out what's wrong and possibly find a cure
[Thunderbolt Android Development] BuffoGT:
hey jcase any updates on this yet? I want to go back to gingeritis but am skered lol..
[Thunderbolt Android Development] JS0724:
It looks like there are many people running Gingerbread still and I haven't seen any reports of bricks since this thread was started.

From what I have seen, the people that did brick were inexperienced users with little or no knowledge of ADB.

Also, I saw a post yesterday from one of the previous brickers. They had got a replacement, rooted and loaded up a Froyo ROM. They were experiencing multiple reboots on a Froyo ROM with new phone. Not bricked, but not working well either.

I am really starting to believe that user error is to blame.

That being said, I am running a Froyo ROM at the moment. Not because I think I will brick, but for stability. The Sense 3.0 PARTS (was hoping for full 3.0 like a working Kingdom port) were nice, but in the end, not as stable as Froyo. I look forward to the day we have a stable GB ROM to load up.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
I believe the radio issues that these phones are having has to do with the simultaneous voice-data connection, which seems to have quite a few bugs yet, and will probably get hashed out pretty soon.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] corenojoe:
I would tend to agreeto a certain extent. However, they're have been a small handfull of very experienced and credible people who have reported getting the bootloop of death. So, I cannot believe that every brick was due to user error.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] want a droid:
Would like to see an official update from jcase. How many people bricked their devices because of GB radio since this thread was created?

As far as we (the general public) know, that number is

0

.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] lippstuh:
did u go through the 60+ pages here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1098363

If ZERO people bricked then why would anyone create this thread. And then why would the mass of people believe jcase without evidence and revert back to froyo?

Its all logic. people have bricked and if you really wanted the answer to the question, 5 minutes u can find a handful of people who bricked due to the GB Radio.

The information is all on this forum, that's why we joined. if you choose not to believe it then do whatever you like with your phone, maybe you'll get lucky who knows.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] JS0724:
He asked how many people have bricked SINCE THIS THREAD WAS CREATED...............
[Thunderbolt Android Development] JS0724:
To correct myself, I just read in another thread that bp328i was one of the unlucky few that did brick. I know for a fact he is an experienced user so I now stand corrected. Not all were as inexperienced as I previously thought.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] joshw0000:
I realllllly want to go back to Gingerbread and I consider myself an exerienced rooter (not developer). From experience, I know to listen to what the developers say is or isn't safe. :-)
[Thunderbolt Android Development] amaury48:
2 Days back on LGS 1.0, soooo far everything has been ok....... guess if this "bricking" thing is still an issue, I'll sacrifice myself to "electronic research" ...

Somebody has to be the sacrificial lamb.......
[Thunderbolt Android Development] distortedloop:
Even experienced users can make mistakes when they're staying up too late are tired and get sloppy, like many of we geeks do.

I'm very experienced, and you may consider me credible or not. I have made many stupid mistakes in the past...screwed up my Droid Charge just last night trying to put Voodoo on it. It can happen to anyone. ;)

Fortunately I was able to undo most of the "damage' to the phone this morning.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] PJnc284:
It doesn't take much to goof up with voodoo. I had a Fascinate prior to the Thunderbolt and had to Odin my way back more times than I care to remember. I tried to tell myself I didn't need voodoo but there's something about that robotic voice that makes you all warm and fuzzy.