yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[LG Optimus 3D] snowing:
It all depends on how much memory the launcher + apps use.

I have both samsung and htc phones myself and notice that HTC sense launcher is smooth but it use up quite a lot of memory.. the newer the version, the more memory get hogged up. sansung TW3 is pretty slim.. TW4 eat up a lot of memoory.

So if LG's UI is the "slim" type which happens to be with the 3xxmb free. I think that's enough. My i9000 only got 1xxmb free and it is still running. So memory management is the key point. Hope LG did answer this question correctly. I'm going to get mind in a week time. Hope that it is as promissing.
[LG Optimus 3D] :
are you dumb?!

OMFG do you even know what you are talkin about.

With android you will always need MORE ram. the gpu does not have its own dedicated ram like a graphics card does and hence has to "share" the chipset's ram. therefore, if you had 512mb of ram (im not 100% sure about this since i dont have a 2x) then some of that will go to the gpu like on the desire. So what u end up with is ram going to the gpu and NOT 512mb left (on the desire about 100mb goes to gpu).

So yes NOW 512mb is enough but since the optimus 3d i think is a "next generation phone" 512mb of ram is insufficient since most "next generation phones" (sgs2, atrix) have 1gb of ram so im sure google will find a way to use that ram to make the phone faster. like with 2.2 (JIT).

the ram issue with optimus is EXACTLY the same as it was with the milestone. When the milestone (droid) came out it had 256mb of ram which was more than enough on android 2.0 (latest at the time) just like how the optimus has enough ram to run great on 2.2 and 2.3. However with the milestone has 2.2 and 2.3 came out with 2.2 including jit and other ram consuming features;2.3 with its new ui, ram management and screen animation (uses more ram) the 256mb of ram which once seemed surplus became insufficient. I know this because i am a milestone user (getting the atrix soon) and on gb roms the multitasking is awful (and gaming)

so yes 512mb of ram is enough for now. but with more version of android such as ice cream sandwhich coming out i think i maybe a year's time 512mb may not be as much as it was now (im assuming you will have it for at least a year since contracts in the uk are normally 18,24 months)
[LG Optimus 3D] :
mate win7 with 1ghz and 256mb of ram??!!! Yes it will run. but it will run like ****.

my gaming pc which had 1gb of ram, a triple core athlon ii 3.1ghz and nvidia geforce 210 lagged when running win7 (well it doesnt anymore since i got 5 gb of ram now heheheh)
[LG Optimus 3D] Echts:
RAM is mostly a question about how efficient the unit is at handling it and there speed does matter, dual memory with dual channel does a lot, true they could up the system req. but the reason Milestones 256 wasn't enough was that they went from system taking about 120-130 to maybe 190-210 and that was a massive jump true, however thinking they will go from 230 to maybe 400+ just for the system isn't really sound logic, they updated because most phones on the market had 512MB, and they had that from the start so the ~200 should be ok for them, the few phones that had 256 would have to stay on 2.0 or so.

It's like saying non-dual-core phones will suck in a year because there are phones out there with it, they wont, the idea of Android isn't to push performance at any cost, while 2.4 will be optimized for dual-core it will still work great with single cores as well, when dual-core becomes standard and quad-cores and 1-2GB RAM comes in the shift towards 1GB req will probably begin.
[LG Optimus 3D] x7nofate:
LG O3D is very very slow, 512 MB of RAM is to small, I'll upload my video tomorrow and everybody will see. People who didn't get this phone yet, please dont buy it
[LG Optimus 3D] Mooks:
looking forward to see your movie. mine is really fast, in fact not as fast as i wished but there's still dualcoresupport missing (->gingerbread update)
[LG Optimus 3D] SinSilla:
I'd like to see that video too since i have absolutely no speed problems with ~130-200MB Ram free. Only slowdowns i experience are while apps are installing. Other than that everything is very smooth and faaar from "very very slow". :rolleyes:
[LG Optimus 3D] x7nofate:
I've got almost 80 apps and only 50MB free RAM in idle. I'll upload this movie in next 12 hours
[LG Optimus 3D] abo_mara7:
Me I got 97 apps and games installed and the free RAM in idle is about (88-120)MB.

Yes, I get some slow down in some situations like installing apps, but it doesn't remain for more than seconds. So, the overall performance is good for me, and we are expecting more from the Gingerbread & Ice Cream update which will be optimized for dual core processors. However, I thought that the Tri-Dual technology will make a revolution in the speed, although the current speed is nice and accepted.
[LG Optimus 3D] Echts:
Well if you get 50MB free RAM then the RAM isn't effecting the speed and the RAM in O3D is faster than in other phones and so is communication between CPU and RAM, sounds more like you got an app eating CPU power or something, and Android is designed to kill off apps not used when RAM is lacking.
[LG Optimus 3D] otacon888:
My O3D works fast...
[LG Optimus 3D] Alex Atkin UK:
You can hardly blame the phone if you have installed too much crap with background processes.

I noticed quite a lot of Android apps keep services running in the background, its quite annoying when its apps you hardly ever use. But you can hardly blame the phone for poorly written apps consuming more resources than necessary.

It IS annoying however how many hoops you have to jump through the actually SEE what services are running. But that is understandable, Android is meant for end-users not techies who like to know what crap is running.

All that said, I find my O3D perfectly fast enough too. Sure I would prefer it had 1GB RAM but not at the cost of battery life and processor speed. At the end of the day even desktop Linux runs decent on 512MB RAM so I do not see why Android would have any problems.
[LG Optimus 3D] exceleth:
My O3D is quite fast too. As eveybody mentioned, sometimes there are some speed problems which only lasts seconds but when you really need the speed, its there for you.
[LG Optimus 3D] hefonthefjords:
i havent had any slowdowns whatsoever, everything is snappy snappy fast.

hardly ever have less than 200mb ram free even when doing lots of things at once.
[LG Optimus 3D] Jabbypants:
Running Launcher Pro on mine and have no complaints with speed its fast.
[LG Optimus 3D] coolfi:
Has anyone tried adding swap, if you have low ram?

See how that works, if it works.
[LG Optimus 3D] Beaker491:
Mine's running as slow as hell with only 14 downloaded apps and miniumum background processes running. Free ram is at 80mb at the min. Its never been above 160mb tho, since i got it last week(?) The battery lasted 7 hours today, from 100% to 0%. For 6 of those 7 hours my phone was in standby, not being used, all data connections turned off, but in an area of strong network signal. For the other hour's worth of usage all i did was send about 20, maybe 25 texts. No internet, no gaming, no camera, no video, no wifi, no nothing other than texting. I don't know whats wrong with it, but its annoying the hell out of me :(

Methinks ive got a bad one.

Ian
[LG Optimus 3D] Jabbypants:
The battery is shockingly bad on this for sure I can get around 12 hours hours and that's really not using the phone much, this really needed a much much better battery in.
[LG Optimus 3D] otacon888:
I also get about 12 hours with moderate usage.

I hope that 1980 mah battery will be better.
[LG Optimus 3D] Jabbypants:
You will have to let me know how it goes with that battery.
[LG Optimus 3D] :
mate u even said it yourself. "most phones on the market had 512MB". most high end phones have 1gn of ram. well most i mean the atrix and sgs2. maybe google will learn from what happened from before i dont knmo9w. but i reckon the same thing will happen. and i completely agree with your last point. thats what im trying to say. this change may happen in the next year like how the g1 and htc hero were dominating with their arm11 500mhz processors and then all the 1ghz snapdragons came with 512mb of ram and the adreno 200 (desire, x10,hd2 and so on)/sgx530 (milestone/droid).

How can you be certain that the 512mb of ram wont become insufficient in the next year?
[LG Optimus 3D] hefonthefjords:
The battery issue i think might be related to the fact that "android system" is using 48% of the battery.

In reality the lcd should be the thing using the most battery by miles and miles.
[LG Optimus 3D] Alex Atkin UK:
I was pondering that too, yet BetterBatteryStats reports nothing remotely interesting. Wakelocks since unplugged remain low, so I am confused what is actually using that power.

Its especially puzzling as I have Llama put my phone in airplane mode between 2am and 8am yet it seems to drain just as much as when I left it in normal mode.

However what really bothers me is that Battery Monitor Widget claims the battery is only 1200mAh when its meant to be 1500mAh. Where exactly is it reading this value from and could it just be wrong?
[LG Optimus 3D] hefonthefjords:
one of the fisrt things i removed from the stock rom was the battery widget so i couldnt say i'd noticed that. anything that checks the battery level repeatedly uses more battery than it's worth in my experience so it's gone.

but yeah, there is something weird happening here. it's been a while since i was on froyo but i dont remember the battery useage being like this before.

i do remember there being a massive jump in battery life between fryo and GB though so fingers crossed for that or cyanogen to save the day on battery life.
[LG Optimus 3D] Echts:
Well if they would make 512MB of RAM insufficient they would lose all customers except those with high end phones? Most phone then and now have 512MB RAM, 1GB is moving on to the market but it will take a year or two until it's standard and then you need to get most of your customers to switch to a phone with 1GB before you start demanding it.

The same reason Google picked a 512Mhz development phone when all the snapdragons where 1Ghz and had been out a year or so, many many, lets call them young fan boy geeks thought Google was f0r 5ur3 gonna pick a Snapdragon for development, but they didn't, and all the young boys with snapdragons screamed .. WHYYYYYY!!!!...

You can't develop against the high end (well unless you are a game company that thinks only graphics matter), you develop against low/mid range to get as many systems as possible.

Most likely next standard dev phone will have 1Ghz and 512 RAM as that is starting to become more standard and what is the current Advanced Dev Phone, the advanced dev phone might then have dual-core and perhaps 1GB RAM but they might as well go with 512MB RAM there as well.

EDIT:

Also here is the current Dev Phone (HTC Magic 32B with 192MB RAM) running 2.3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saw8aN2zWSk

Here is a fully working version of gingerbread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05QWaHdGGhU

Don't know if it's the 32A or 32B but shows that gingerbread doesn't need that much RAM.

32A = 288MB RAM

32B = 192MB RAM (current dev phone)
[LG Optimus 3D] exceleth:
Actually my battery life seems like improving day by day. That is probably because of the heavy usage is slowing down. The phone is unplugged for more than 6 hours and I have 83% battery remaining. Most of the times it was on standby but I check my phone consistently and gmail and exchange sync is on.
[LG Optimus 3D] rthamilton:
Could it be that with a new phone that u have lack of cache data and may actually speed up after some use. I know this is true when I install new roms and clear cache on my ATRIX.
[LG Optimus 3D] hefonthefjords:
Go back and use a motorola milestone or htc hero for a couple of days then try telling us this doesnt have enough ram.
[LG Optimus 3D] Mooks:
still waiting:D
[LG Optimus 3D] jimakos29:
heh, nice try other company(htc? samsung?) funboy... Got mine for more than 3 weeks now and is almost as fast as sgs2 (mind you it is still running 2.2) and for your info i got sgs2 as well so i know what i'm talking about. I use it more than sgs2 as i really like the 3d and since i suspect you're an htc funboy i got to tell you that evo3d doesn't stand a chance... it's got to be THE slowest dualcore phone out there. gets scores in quadrant that I almost got on my x10i with TripNMIUI (Trip you rock btw).... 2818 quadrant standard scores here with lg3d and 3145 on my sgs2. They will get really close with 2.3 in a couple of months
[LG Optimus 3D] :
i know the dev phone they use is the magic: it's one of the lowest spec phones around, that's what software engineering is about-making software run faster. The dev phone wont change for a long long long long long long long long long long long longlong long long longlong long long long long long long longlong long long long time.

its not google making 512mb "insufficient". As a phone of course 512mb will last. Like it does on my milestone. gb runs perfectly if i use my phone as a phone. but that's not the reason why you would buy a "SMART"phone. obviously 512mb of ram will be enough to run all the later android versions, yes it will always be enough ram to use your smartphone as just a phone. BUT. It's a smartphone ; you would want to use it for far more than that.

if you own a milestone like myself you would know that the ram is insufficient not in a way that new android releases wont run (they run great. u know, with very little installed). But it's insufficient as in widgets such as fancy widgets constantly being killed if you open an app, games actually not running due to the lack of ram and so forth. <------that's what i think may happen to phones with only 512mb of ram

and like i said before. the change could happen in a year. it could happen in 5 years. no one will know
[LG Optimus 3D] :
quadrant scores arent everything :L
[LG Optimus 3D] jimakos29:
I know they aren't. I get similar scores in almost all benchmarks compared to my sgs2 and those scores aren't everything of course but they are when refering to the overall speed of the phone as was the dude telling that lg3d is REALLY slow and ppl shouldn't go buy it. I am just showing him it is not
[LG Optimus 3D] specialex:
it's a bit oot, what audio codec for O3D ?

wolfson ? or other
[LG Optimus 3D] rgunara:
it has the same amount of RAM as an ipad 2 (which runs really fast) ...and the lg is dual memory so it should be enough
[LG Optimus 3D] bolinao:
Why does it show under System Information in Quadrant that the core is only 1 ??,i thought i was suppose to be dual core ??
[LG Optimus 3D] jimakos29:
Quadrant doesn't recognise 2 cores (don't know if a newer version is out there yet) shows exact same thing for both my lg 3d and my sgs2. only one core

The results though are stunning
[LG Optimus 3D] bolinao:
Thats odd,why does Quadrant have a place for the number of cores then ?
[LG Optimus 3D] Mooks:
Well it's long time ago that quadrant got an update...

My %s wrote it with xda app
[LG Optimus 3D] bolinao:
Someone else on another board says that Quadrant show 2 core on their Samsung Galaxy S II.
[LG Optimus 3D] Mooks:
maybe it's because the o3d has froyo.

froyo has no support for dual cores... gingerbread does.

so we bought a smartphone with the strongest dual core at the moment but without the supporting software... ironic isn't it ?:p
[LG Optimus 3D] Paran0idAndr0id:
I always thought android did very well with ram allocation. Not that its a waster like windows. Maybe that changed with honeycomb and thus reaching to ice cream sandwich but I doubt it. Linux is underlying there so great ram management. Had not problems with ram allocation our out of ram whatsoever with this phone by running of plenty of apps
[LG Optimus 3D] Alex Atkin UK:
Its probably not optimised for dual-core, but there seems to be some argument over if even Gingerbread is at this point.

Besides, comparing UAE4Droid on the O3D to UAE4Maemo on the N900 overclocked to 1Ghz, its a clear night and day difference in performance.

I find it hard to believe that performance difference is ONLY from the SMP kernel, although that can account for some of it as there will be some degree of load balancing happening, even if not multi-threading within the apps. At the very least its likely the audio mixer will be using one core while your app is using the other, the kernel will make sure of that.

Sure it won't push every last drop of performance that way, but then you don't really want to as that will kill the battery. Are there really that many apps that need multi-threading at this point?

Back to the topic, you really shouldn't judge phones like you would a PC. On a PC they will make apps that eat every last drop of RAM, because despite PCs being multi-tasking, as a general rule you only need your foreground task to really be taking priority and it doesn't matter if that slows the background tasks down.

On a phone however you do NOT want the foreground task to EVER eat so much CPU power and RAM that it prevents incoming calls and SMS from working correctly. So you write phone apps to use as little RAM as possible and the current games use a very VERY small portion of that 512MB.

Also as others have said, you are going to target the low to mid range phone market so we are still talking about phones with only 256MB RAM. With all the different configurations then even targeting a phone with 512MB RAM, you are going to want to be really careful because you do not know how much junk the user has installed. The less RAM you use, the more likely your game will run flawlessly.

Its far more worrying that developers are making Tegra 2 only games designed to deliberately not work on none nVidia chips. If you want to worry about future support THAT is the issue, not a lack of RAM. Because not everyone is comfortable rooting their phone and installing potentially buggy GPU drivers to get Tegra 2 games to run.
[LG Optimus 3D] :
The lg iis dual memory in a sense that it has 2 256mb ram chips (I believe). Like I said before 512mb is enough now. It may not be in a years time
[LG Optimus 3D] :
The n900 has 65nm semi conductor I think whereas the o3d has a 40 or 45nm semi conductor which I think dles make a difference.

And no games don't use only a small proportion of 512mb. Everyone always forgets U DON'T HAVE 512 mb of ram even if ur phone has 512mb of ram. Use the desire as an example. It has 512mb of ram but over 150mb of ram goes to the gpu-ONLY THE GPU CAN USE THAT RAM. So you are left with only 350mb of ram. Dungeon defenders require 256mb of ram to run and maybe in the future we may see a graphically intensive game that requires 400mb of ram.

Also,with more ram the gpu can output with a higher resolution since more ram can be allocated to the gpu.
[LG Optimus 3D] hefonthefjords:
The O3D has 512mb of dual channel ram so technichally speaking there is actually 1gb of ram spread over two chips meaning we actually only have 512mb of effective ram and, as mentioned, some of that is directly addressed to the task of graphics. To the tune of 142mb (71mb per chip) leaving us with 441mb of useable dual channel operating system accessible ram, if my maths is right anyway...
[LG Optimus 3D] jimakos29:
i'm guessing you're wrong somewhere cause I was playing dungeon defenders on my x10 with less than 170 Megs of ram available so I take it it means total Phone memory must be 256 not free mem at the time of running...
[LG Optimus 3D] :
Yea once ur phone starts the game the auto killer will kill some background apps that you don't need. Plus, dungeon defenders doesn't always need 256mb of RAM. It only needs it when the game gets intense
[EVO 4G General] bjb_nyj101:
Basically, I want to know who's to blame for Android's (almost always) poor battery life. It has been several years since android has been out, and it wasn't until a few months ago that phones started having "good" battery life, namely with the Moto Atrix 4G, and the LG Optimus 2X / G2X. and Samsung Galaxy S II

Is the Android OS to blame. Was there something that was going on before 2.2 that was causing this?

My friend's iPhone 4 has a 1420 mAh battery, and it can last nearly two days with medium use, all while receiving push notifications, etc etc..

In comparison, I have to undervolt & underclock my Evo 4G just so it will get through one work day on the 1500mah battery

And it's not just the iPhone. I know people with large-screened Symbian devices that also have great battery life. Even my roommate's HD7 gets much better battery life with similar usage.

I know that usage is a big factor, and the "good" battery life is subjective, but before people drop in and start raving about how android is more "connected", and stuff is always syncing, blah blah blah. I want you to drop your biases, and accept the truth; android battery life has been terrible.

So who's to blame? Google?
[EVO 4G General] jonnybrx:
Your Mom! FTW!

Just kidding, its a flaw in the design of android. Android is so open and customizable. Try doing all the things you can do on android on a different platform like WP7. One of the flaws though is that the android system will use more battery. If you want a simple phone that has a great selection of apps and no customization, then iPhone is for you.
[EVO 4G General] bjb_nyj101:
Your assuming that everyone that uses an android phone is doing some crazy customization and running emulators 24/7, etc.

You can go to google and search, and see what I'm talking about. Thousands of people who use their phones moderately, just using basic smartphone features (web browsing, phone calls, texting) and their battery is almost dead by the time they get off work / home from school. This generally doesn't happen on WP7, and almost never on iOS (even with push notifications & "multitasking")
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
I don't have a problem with trying to fix this issue.

It IS one of the top 3 problems with Android.

However, I don't understand the point of trying to find out "who's to blame."

I mean obviously Google is at least partly to blame as it is their OS.

But what's the point?

I'd rather try to solve the issue.

This is Katrina all over again. "Who's to blame" was a bigger concern than trying to help the people in trouble.
[EVO 4G General] fenixjn:
I dont think he meant 'customizable' as 'end user' but as 'manufacturer'. So many versions of the same OS across so many devices... I guess in the iphone the hardware and software complement each other perfectly since the OS will always run on the same HW. On android... well you can tweak many things but I'm pretty sure there will be a point where that balance breaks when either youhave to slow down to achieve better battery life or have piss poor battery life in exchange for a better overall performance. Remember that iphones hw is unique to the OS.
[EVO 4G General] bjb_nyj101:
You'd "rather try to solve the problem"? Oh, I didn't know you worked for Google :cool:

There's nothing us end users can do besides complain. I already have to undervolt and underclock my phone, just so it will last more than 15 hours. I think it's unacceptable. I can't "solve" this problem, I can only do what I can to minimize it.

Not that anyone cares, but unless a powerful android phone is on Sprint by the time I upgrade, I will be switching to the iPhone (if it comes to sprint) or WP7.
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
Couple of things:

Firstly, if we've learned anything lately with the HTC fiasco it's that end users can make a difference.

Certainly devs can.

If the issue is truly in the coding than there's no reason a highly skilled dev team cannot remedy the issue.

As far as "unless a powerful android phone is on Sprint by the time I upgrade"....

Evo 3D, Samsung Within [Galaxy 2], Motorola Photon [Sprint's Atrix], and a rumored iPhone 5....

Yeah, I think you'll be covered.
[EVO 4G General] bjb_nyj101:
Right, which is why I said that all we can do is complain.

I meant to say a powerful android phone with good battery life :p

I've been down the apple road before, and while it is more restrictive, it was generally a more pleasurable experience. The Galaxy S II is what I'm eyeing as of right now :)