yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Thunderbolt Android Development] ThunderStick:
Personal Opinion on this

This is just an opinion,

flame away...:D

From what I understand there has not been a huge number of bricks given the amount of actual users. Possibly not even related to GB. It just so happens that those bricks were currently running GB. There are a lot of things to consider when evaluating a situation like this.

Logically the radio was to blame because not much else is different between the use of our phones when using the GB Roms and Froyo roms besides the radio. But what puzzles me is that if it was the GB ROMs than how come we all weren't affected and just a small handful of users.

Theory 1:

Expressed by others as well, since we have been over clocking our phones a lot of people have been having problems with reboots, overheating and unstable phones on Froyo. So GB comes out, runs hot from a fresh install and is using a custom kernel. I know my TB ran hot as hell, up to 120 degrees F. But if I use SETCPU and reset the setting in the kernel the temps drop dramatically. So may be the kernel is not working as it should, I don't know a whole lot about this area but in keeping with an open mind I hold a lot more suspect than just the radio.

Theory 2:

If the radio is indeed corrupted and causing these bricks, simply being able to make to HBOOT should reveal if the radio is indeed corrupt. It displays the radio version at the top of the screen, in order to do this it is reading directly from the emmc. So if it is reading from the emmc does this indicate the chip is still good and to consider other things or is just a few sectors of the chip that could be throwing off the whole thing? Kind of like when windows takes a dump and requires a scan-disk run to fix a few screwed up sectors.

We place a lot of trust in the DEV's when rooting our phones and we have not had much reason if any reason as of yet to not trust them. And truly I believe we have the best set of DEV's here in the thunderbolt forum. So really I trust there opinion when they post an alert about the radio and again I am no expert by any means but just trying to get a better understanding and contribute any ideas that I have.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] loonatik78:
I'm no dev, but I have screwed around with computers for a cool 20 years doing things like overclocking and other crazy stuff. I see a lot of half-baked theories floating around here. Having carefully forced all manner of integrated circuits into all imaginable modes of failure, I can tell you what a certain failure mode will look like.

Overclocking by itself will only raise temperatures marginally without an increase in voltage. If your phone is getting stupid-hot being over clocked, blame a badly tweaked kernel voltage scheme. OR... Blame the more likely culprit: the radio. The radio can eat power at a rate second only to the display. Memory failure modes can happen a number of ways because of the complex nature of memory itself. Freezing is more indicative of memory pushed beyond its limits than a CPU pushed too hard. Often when a CPU reaches its clock limit, its on-die cache that's failing to output viable signals, which in turn causes transistors to falter. In my opinion, pointing the finger at an emmc chip tells me that the new radio is expecting protacol conditions that may not be reality on that chip, thus causing a failure. An mmc chip can come in all kinda of flavors and work in multiple modes. Software sometimes needs to account for this. What jcase says makes sense to me. So does the random nature of the issue. Worthy of mention is the novel manner in which an LTE phone programs itself on the network. It's done constantly and even that might be part of the issue. The radio on this thing is doing stuff it never had to really do before.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] JWMayes:
Oh, I also failed to mention that I am OC'd at 1.4. Still no problems going in a full 72 hours.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
You are correct. The radio will be the 1 of 3 main power consumers on the device. This will not cause corruption though,

but will cause

A LARGE POWER CONSUMPTION. Now as I have been explaining take this power consumption add over the top over-clocking and memory leaks(which I have discussed previously) and you have a massive device failure.

FYI - - over-clocking can cause emmc failure and is VERY COMMON...unbelievable do a google search

heres just one simple quote from an expert

"One of the first things that can go wrong if you overclock your system to the point of instability is corrupting files on your drive. You can have read and write errors to the disk that can leave your OS unstable or completely unusable."
[Thunderbolt Android Development] theryanguy:
Umm, yeah. About that.

Sent from my super duper deluxe rooted re-romed Thunderbolt. ( and yes, it can also wash my car AND do the dishes)
[Thunderbolt Android Development] OCedHrt:
That's awesome information that I kinda knew but didn't really. Thanks for that! But that wasn't what I was talking about. We have the OTA radio for the HTC Froyo builds. This radio doesn't work on HTC GB builds. Is this because the radio functions changed and we don't have a RIL that allows us to use OTA radio on GB?
[Thunderbolt Android Development] bking_soda:
Alright.... I'm no developer and definitely no rocket scientist, but I just want to get in on this again. I'm new to Android and HTC. I got this phone on release, rooted within days, and have been flashing since. Rooted my girls phone and had many interesting experiences along the way, but those don't apply to this. I see people have left gb totally, left and came back, and some of us who never left. My phone has had zero problems handling anything I've thrown at it. I flashed gb when it dropped and haven't gone back to froyo since. A couple things I've learned along the way... Flashing a gb back up or fresh install requires 3x wipe or the phone randomly reboots until it settles. I can take my same random rebooting phone, factory reset 3x and restore or flash new with zero reboots. I'm currently running Gingeritis IX with Imoseyon's latest kernel with swap and speed tweak. This phone flat out screams! I had temperature issues with the froyo leak a while back, but have run cool with gb since flash. My signal with gb radio is better and the phone is smoother. I can't tell anyone why we had some bricks and I wasn't sitting there to know what they were doing at the time it happened. I respect jcase for informing us of this when it came out that a few phones self destructed, but I'm saddened that it happened to some phones that couldn't be gotten a hold of for testing. Truth is, we will most likely get a more stable gb release and move on before we ever figure out what happened to those few phones. I'm a heavy user always flashing and tweaking trying to find a limit to this amazing device... Ive been reading about people back on gb for a matter of hours surprised their phone hasn't bricked. I've been on gb for weeks and my phone seems to just be getting faster and stronger with every new release... Big thanks to Chingy and Imoseyon for all their hard work. Adrynalyn and Jcase as well... Without the amazing devs we have in this forum, we would have nothing. You guys are awesome! To everyone else, the best of luck with whatever setup you decide works best for you. I'm staying right here in gingerbread land and if something happens to my phone, ill be the first to sacrifice it to the community. Okay... I've said my peice, feel free to flame away. I'm just trying to find the same thing as you... An answer to what happened last week.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Speeddymon:
I know this was posted a number of pages back, but to simplify the explanation, the RIL is like a driver, except it's not exactly a driver because instead of loading inside the OS, it loads between the OS and the radio to my knowledge. It's a layer of code that allows the OS to -interface with- the radio, rather than a driver which allows the OS to -use- the radio.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] tanium:
I have been watching the posts and time is passing.

It seems we only really know of 1 or 2 bricks.

A few posted, don't even know if they were the same issue.

Facts are we don't see any new bricks that I know of or see posted.

I came back to bamf remix gb.

Had no issues the first time around, only 1 issue when I came back.

I love the feel and look of bamf it rocks.

But I had a problem today and freaked out about it.

I was sitting here asking a question on the forum.

Made my post and went to take care of some work while I waited for a reply.

Set my phone down, plugged into charge, looking at forums.

Ok so I come back just a few later.

The phone is off, power button did nothing.

I had to pull the battery and then the power on worked.

Took a long time to boot and the case was warm.

I mean I was like oh crap I got the brick.

But it came on.

This was a scary experience.

I loaded up cm7 after this.

Just going to wait a bit, jcase then my phone doing that.

I'm glad the TB is on the forums right now :)
[Thunderbolt Android Development] chayesfss:
^ I can see that happening to myself too

I'm on bamf gb now, no issues
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
First guess would be it was under-volted too low...even if u didn't adjust it it would have been set at 245...this would happen to me if it was too low..not harmful but freezes up..especially when screen is off I would almost guarantee that was the issue
[Thunderbolt Android Development] spimonkey34:
Undervolted != Underclocked
[Thunderbolt Android Development] turpintb:
Here is my back cover. I assume my batch is from Feb 2011?
[Thunderbolt Android Development] mkilla:
Mine is 110119.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] bbuchho90:
Mines DT11.01.31, and then GP-A110216. :confused: So early 2011 manufacturing date i would assume?
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Busphan:
Don't forget there is also a date on the phone by the battery.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Bern612:
Just wanted to throw this out there also. I don't know if the s-on thing was a before or after affect. But I have read other people run into a problem also where I loaded a rom and it said I didn't have root. Then I had to reapply the rom for it to give me root. What if these people thought there rom stuck, but it was I guess you would say stuck in the middle. And tried to apply a kernel or something and it broke it. I did a wipe, installed rom used root checker and it said I didn't have root. Reapplied rom and now I had root. And jcase now you can throw the noob video at me also lol
[Thunderbolt Android Development] CPCookieMan:
Just remember, a rooted rom is basically defined by having a rooted su file in the system. If for some reason that file gets corrupted or removed, you would effectively loose "root". A rooted rom and a rooted phone are two different things. No matter if you have su in the system or not, if you have S-OFF and custom recovery, you're technically rooted. So I wouldn't worry too much. If you have S-OFF, it's really VERY hard to totally unroot a phone without trying.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] SKumar26:
Got tired of waiting and had to flash back to GB...

Flashed Gingeritis IX with Imo's New 2.7.1GB Test 1 Kernal. No issues at all. Phone Rebooted Once after I booted it up the first time before I can complete the setup.

SEM08G

Not Bricked.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] tbcpn:
Where? I had a magnifying glass out and couldn't find any dates aside from that printed on the back cover (which BTW is the same date as on the extra cover I purchased from VZW a few weeks aftergetting the Tbolt).
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Busphan:
It is located on the right side close to the top of the battery, and it is very hard to see. I had to hold it a different angles to find it.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] trippinnik:
I'm not running Gingerbread radio anymore, but I did for a few days.

My device did not brick (I reversed after warnings)

Output of command: SEM08G
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Andrew C:
Well it seems I have an early batch phone from last year: 10.12.25. I did run GB for a while with no issues.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] GreginNH:
Runing BAMF Remix 1.7 Froyo(reverted from GB)

SEM08G

No Brick
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
I have the same batch...been running GB since release
[Thunderbolt Android Development] BobVS:
One would assume that is correct but I can tell you from first hand experience the first time I loaded GB my phone unrooted! S-on and had to re root the phone going through the whole process. It really scared the $H!T out of me, nothing but problems the first time. Re-Rooted, loaded a Froyo Rom then tried again. It worked the second time then the Brick scare put me back to Froyo. Missed GB so much went back to it yesterday and have been running fine since.

Just my experience
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jaysckap:
What RUU did you flash? that might have been the problem getting back to s-on. It happened to me before I was in a hurry and bam s-on.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] capflya:
Mine is 11.01.28 if this makes a difference... Been running GB since release except for 2 days after the "scare" then I went back to GB and running gingeritis and it's been stable. Not one random reboot so far.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] dhemke17:
Hey everyone that has actually bricked there devices...is it a common trend to lose all data connectivity(besides wifi) before actually bricking your phones?
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jaysckap:
There is no warning signs for the bricking issue
[Thunderbolt Android Development] PJnc284:
I've been going through the same thing since friday. I live in a 3G only area and data coverage has been spotty. The only cellular data I could get today was 1X by switching it to LTE only mode. Reverted back to the stock froyo ota and still have the same issues. Decided to enable Rev-A under the modem settings with ##778 and have managed to get stable 3G so it may be network related.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] distortedloop:
I concur probably network related.

I switched to Verizon specifically for the LTE, but the supposedly better network for voice and 3g was part of the draw.

Voice has been stellar, but 3g is painfully slow and 4G has easy to many outages and " no Mobile data" here in my part of Los Angeles.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] mkilla:
And yet they keep opening up more areas. Lol
[Thunderbolt Android Development] rsmiff:
I had the GB leak running since it dropped. In the last few days I've noticed spotty 4G and 3G coverage. With periods of literally no data. I reverted back to froyo and have had no 3G issues at all.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] wayne8821212:
SEM08G not bricked and still running GB das bamf 2.0 beta 5 remix
[Thunderbolt Android Development] 00negative:
I haven't bricked but last night I had connection issues and rebooted to try and fix and it went into a boot and freeze loop so pulled sd card put mr1 update at root of card and had battery on charger to make sure it didn't die while flashing.

The CPU frequency was showing high values on set CPU when I was booting and freezing and I hadn't changed them. And battery was showing pretty full which was odd, thought I was getting unusually good battery life but could of been giving bad data.

Was on gingeritis, imo 2.7.1 test1 kernel.

While I think there maybe emmc issues that cause the rebooting etc I think actual bricking occurs due to user error trying to fix it but that is just personal opinion. Hopefully we will get a better GB radio in the near future.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jasoraso:
This is getting a little off topic, but I wanted to respond to your statements regarding Verizon and 3g/4g/no data issues.

I'm in Utah, not So-Cal, where they only have 4g at the airport, so there could be some differences. But here, on my Droid Incredible, I had VERY few data issues.

Now, with the Thunderbolt, I have experienced a LOT more data issues. I attribute it to the buggy radio stack that VZW/HTC is still trying to get sorted out. I think the 4g/3g/wifi handoff issues are still buggy, and add to that the mix of building out a new network, updating protocols on the existing network (EPRHD or whatever) and the Thunderbolt really is on the cutting edge - literally.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] lippstuh:
EXACTLY what happened to me just 8 days on BAMF 2.0-4.

EDIT: Bricking is NOT because of user error. Please read bp328i's post below

ALSO, I had an OG Droid, flashed many many roms onto it. And I found it odd that a rom needs to go through a few cycles of random reboots and FC in order to function properly. It doesn't make ANY sense. That should be a huge flag right there.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jaysckap:
That's just one case. You cannot rule out user error based on one brick.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jaysckap:
Cycling a rom before it becomes stable is not uncommon. Please do some research before posting this kind of stuff
[Thunderbolt Android Development] USSENTERNCC1701E:
A few initial cycles of reboots actually is not that odd, I personally anticipate it with a modified Sense ROM. And if you read what jcase and adrynalyne have posted there is no unusual behavior to correlate the bricks.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] zapote21:
I wonder how many bricks do we usually have out of a normal ROM...

Just saying... a couple of bricks out of thousands of GB users out there? Isnt that a normal risk ratio? lol

No need to flame... Just speculating out loud...

I went back to Das Bamf 2.0b5 last weekend... Running perfect here... Of course I dont overclock or anything
[Thunderbolt Android Development] ska.t73:
Personally? I have never ever heard of anyone getting an un-recoverable brick from flashing a ROM. They might get a soft brick, where they have to re-flash the phone with an RUU or SBF (moto phones), but I've never seen a brick like this.

I've been rooting and ROMing since the OG Droid came out. Like I said never heard of a brick from flashing a ROM. In fact the only bricks I've ever heard of came from doing something stupid while flashing an SBF using RSD Lite (OG Droid). The thing about this brick that is so scary is that it comes out of the blue for seamingly no reason. Usually when someone bricks a phone it is because of something they did wrong while flashing something at a very low level.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] distortedloop:
I won't disagree with what you're saying too much, but be aware that I also have a droid charge, and it has as many 3G and 4G issues as the thunderbolt for me. My point being that it's not just HTC .
[Thunderbolt Android Development] 00negative:
You are going to have a couple random equipment failures period it is inevitable.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] ThunderStick:
Just got a new thunderbolt from an insurance replacement today..

Mine bricked (mostly because it got wet while I swam in my pool with it in my pocket) - I was using my ThunderStick ROM, GB Based as well

I believe if I had a Froyo ROM my phone would have been water proof and I would be still using it today. Oh well lesson learned... For the sake of science I'm gonna go swimming with a thunderbolt in my pocket but this time it will be running Froyo instead. Ill post back later on my findings.:D

Old phone Built 01-15-2011

New Phone Built 04-24-2011

Both had the same output SEM08G
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jaysckap:
Thunderstick rom?
[Thunderbolt Android Development] USSENTERNCC1701E:
The link is in his sig Thunderstick GB
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Zalyia38:
Well I've been back on BAMF Remix 2.0-5 since 5/31. I'm totally willing to risk bricking if it helps figure this out. Though I hope I don't :)

Not overclocked. GB Alpha radio.

I've not had any issues at all (knock on wood) I posted earlier running the same output as everyone else was. Looking at the date (if it's the right number on the battery cover) DT10.12.26 or MV-101222.

I can't find a date on the phone. EDIT: so hard to see, but looks like BT PV 101205
[Thunderbolt Android Development] techspecs:
I ran several BAMF versions - froyo and gb and NEVER experienced the reboot to settle phenomenon. I'm running CM7 now until the GB drama is resolved.

. /adb signature
[Thunderbolt Android Development] sznaps:
Most of the people reverting to froyo aren't really out of the blue i would think, unless they reverted back to the froyo radio. If you flashed the GB radio, you are still running the GB radio, and don't the dev's think the issue is with the radio?

I'm just trying to get a better understanding of what the risk really is, is this issue only occuring with people with s-on? or are s-off people still vulnerable? I want to go to gingerbread but I have no insurance on my phone and don't want to brick it...
[Thunderbolt Android Development] gohamstergo:
its only happening with S-off users with the gingerbread alpha radio. this radio version is THOUGHT to be causing issues with certain phones that may have an off-brand emmc chip.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] techspecs:
Yes, obviously 'reverting to froyo' primarily involves downgrading the radio to mitigate the brick risk. The reverted radio doesn't work with GB so we [sadly] have to downgrade in the ROM/kernel department too.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jaysckap:
The GB radio will not work with froyo.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] wayne8821212:
If I had a nickel for everytime I switched between 1 of 4 GB roms and back to froyo and the associated radio switching back and forth and back and forth....... but I stayed with GB Das Bamf 2.0 beta 5 remix since before the bricking scare.....fingers are crossed!
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
Nm wrong post.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] mexiken:
Same as everyone else, SEM08G.

Ran BAMF GB 2.0, flashed back to Froyo, could NOT stand the batt life, so I flashed back to BAMF Remix 2.0. I am running the super secret radio that shall not be spoken of. I will keep posted if I get bricked.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] adrynalyne:
Bricked as of today.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] djbeanpole:
Snap!!!!!!!
[Thunderbolt Android Development] Veridor:
I wonder if this new crop of bricks is from MR2 + Froyo ROMs built of that base, or just the gingerbread ROMs.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] adrynalyne:
This was MR2.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] thejondude:
:( srsly??
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
MM figured it out
[Thunderbolt Android Development] nmyeti:
Did you learn anything other than the emmc brand you have, which is the same as almost everyone else, is not a likely cause?
[Thunderbolt Android Development] adrynalyne:
In my particular case, I do not believe the failure is in the emmc.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
Thoughts??...seems the other brick was on a seperate Rom am I right possible link???
[Thunderbolt Android Development] adrynalyne:
The brick is for certain hardware failure, but I am unsure what caused it.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] mandog202:
oh no, not again
[Thunderbolt Android Development] djbeanpole:
F it I'm staying
[Thunderbolt Android Development] iastonish:
On the new leaked radio or the older one?

Sorry about the bad news either way man.

Edit: Nvm, saw it was the new radio. Heard it happened while you were flashing a new kernel?
[Thunderbolt Android Development] KDKobes:
Hey...I've been saying it....sigh....nobody listens to me I'm no so called "dev"..I've given the answers already...let's suck it up and listen now
[Thunderbolt Android Development] tekhna:
Sigh. So, back to froyo, I guess?
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jaysckap:
He bricked on froyo

Sent from my BAMF Thunderbolt powered by Sense 3.0
[Thunderbolt Android Development] tekhna:
MR2 Froyo though, correct? Back to the OTA radio, is what I meant.
[Thunderbolt Android Development] jaysckap:
Yea MR2 froyo

Sent from my BAMF Thunderbolt powered by Sense 3.0
[Thunderbolt Android Development] n0thing2bdone:
suggest a thread title update to alert users on mr2. i only came to this thread to confirm what i read on twitter.