yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Defy General] :
This is my thread, If you like you can post exactly the same message again. Thank you.

If a company has a bad policy it doesn't mean we have to be quiet about it and worse others to tell us off. The very same people also affected by the same bad policies. Am I going mad or people are really being brain washed?

Obligations, Obligations, Obligations. Companies have obligations. You can take my money and tell me "Sorry due to our bad policy we have every right to rip you off". No this is not on Motorola. A place like XDA exists where I can excercise my basic rights to let you know I'm not happy. I placed my order for Defy in 28 Nov, 2010. This is 3 June, 2011 now and everyone else are getting Gingerbread updates and we UK users and the rest of Europe are still waiting for your Froyo updates.

Why does it have to take this long? Why you couldn't release Defy in March 2011 instead? Because you wanted our money to make more phones (i.e., Atrix, Xoom, and etc.) to become rich but you forgot you have obligations to those help you "rebuild" your company. At the time I bought your product you had one other product in the market (worth considering), at least in Europe, known as Milestone. I can guess how much you made money by selling Defy to finance your other projects.

Froyo OS is not even yours that you have held it back from us this long. In all honesty, I don't think you deserve and appreciate the position your company is in at the moment.

I would like also to know why you are about to degrade the Video playback capability of the product I already purchased in the Froyo update? How dare you to modify the product I own without officially document this change? Anything in your advantage called a policy?
[Defy General] nicksti:
You mean this is XDA's thread, we just post here. Unless you are a mod you are not able to censor anyone in any post.

No, you should speak out against them. But you did draw a parallel about them endangering people's lives so you are going beyond that.

This pretty much sums up this whole dillusional thread. you are so intent on smearing Motorola that you are connecting dots that are not even on the same page and coming to illogical conclusions.

Sorry due to our bad policy we have every right to rip you off. Now how is Motorola ripping you off? They are not. Locking a boot loader is not ripping you off. You know... no one listens to the people in the asylum and I think you are knocking on the door...

Companies have obligations to the government, employees, and shareholders. Not to you to provide unencrypted bootloaders.

Everyone is getting Gingerbread right? Everyone but us? I would like a stat on the overuse of the word "everyone" when a point of gross oversight needs to be made.

Motorola has a policy of locking their bootloaders. Well known fact on this board. Nothing more interesting to it. If you want an open bootloader then do not buy Motorola.

It is that simple.
[Defy General] :
What do you want me to say after you take my wordings like "My Thread" literally?
[Defy General] farsight73:
You said you are a software developer over 20 years and have the ability to do your own android rom, know everything in out of everything. Why can't you just crack the bootloader and become famous here instead of becoming most condemning around here..

If you really claim yourself as 20 years developer. Go contribute something, make custom rom or new sbf or defy honeycomb rather than just sit there waiting and self frustrating over a relatively cheap good device.

Go here http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1106375 and solve the issue over rooting new sbf of gingerbread 2.3.3 and I'll be your best friend.

Sent from my awesome Moto Defy - XDA Premium
[Defy General] :
I'm not the one you should be angry with. Please read my comments once more and then your own reply.
[Defy General] nicksti:
There is no anger in that post. To paraphrase farsight73, there are three types of people in this world:

Type 1 - sit there and do nothing

Type 2 - complain and do nothing more

Type 3 - do something about it

Unfortunately, not enough people are type 3.
[Defy General] :
I've been making an awareness in this post as well as in this one, so I am doing something about it. Some people call it condemning.
[Defy General] farsight73:
I'm not getting any near angry. But sad to see someone like you with 20 years as developer and know a lot about Android open source platform, yet still sitting there do nothing than complaining. Please contribute if you know something and let at least something make sense over all your effort by being the good guy there.

Frustrating over late froyo update where you can easily get here in XDA or you just that developer guy afraid of using rsd 4.9 flasher or clockworkmod and lot of custom rom available.

Help the Defy community here if you care yours so much. Crack the bootloader or solve the rooting issue of the newly surface 2.3.3 sbf.

Sent from my awesome Moto Defy - XDA Premium
[Defy General] :
Okay, you are not angry but you haven't been paying attention to what I have previously said, have you?

I am claiming with my software development experience it is easier for me to master the inner working of Android than someone with no experience at all. A big difference to your understanding.

The other time, you called me a leecher, more or less. I don't use custom roms and I have already paid for the Android applications that weren't free. How am I a leecher?

I hope this settles the misunderstanding now.
[Defy General] feffe73:
I can't understand who complain like OP.

you don't like motorola policy??? there are at least 10 other phone producers better than Motorola.

Buy it!!

The market is free, the consumer is the king of the market.

if you like more Apple or HTC policy, why you brake our boxes???

As i said before, i buy Motorolasince more 10 year and i0m very happy about product and policy of this company....my phone now is 2.2 updated, i made it by myself. i don't ask anything else to motorola then produce good phone.

You are willing to accept my offer ...if you will have a good policy you don't be happy to sell me a phone not update to the last software.

your policy is the same that motorola.
[Defy General] nicksti:
Raising awareness. Crying.

Tomato. Tomatoe.

You are not even rallying people together for a cause. Amazing this post is so long. But I am contributing to that so good luck with your future phone purchase.
[Defy General] farsight73:
Yea, it's amazed me this thread keep going on and I'm part of it. I will stop writing this thread as it ain't worth it.

Look people, if you love your Defy (Motorola), stop replying here and let this thread die.

Sent from my awesome Moto Defy - XDA Premium
[Defy General] :
You made an offer that I took you on it because I knew you weren't man enough to stand for it. I have already prove it because you backed down and cowardly started accusing me of having double standards. If I am not happy about a company that I own one of their products and want to sell it how that is bad? There is no base in your arguments at all. Also you keep bringing up the subject once others are attacking me in here. You are a coward in my opinion.

If you don't like what I have to say, then don't read and response. I'm not going to change my way of thinking because you are a fanboy of Motorola.
[Defy General] :
If you can't understand the difference between raising awareness and rallying people for a cause then we have nothing to say to each other.

Unlike some of you responding to my thread, jumping to conclusions and think you have all the answers, I have not been telling people what they should do.

The only person is crying in here is you. I'm standing firm on my opinions about Motorola. You are the one as soon as I write something start crying by responding to my posts. After all I'm the author of this thread.
[Defy General] :
It is alright for you to tell people what they should do but it is wrong for me to express my opinions about Motorola, a Business Entity? Are you sure you are not from Motorola?
[Defy General] :
A some of you may be aware of, Motorola has removed the previously released Froyo update for India. Motorola has had over six months to develop and test Froyo and finally released something as final with very poor quality. Obviously that brings my confidence down when it comes to UK Froyo update this month and I can only hope Motorola will step up their software quality control.

In Software Engineering terms that is a serious embarrassment. All Motorola is doing installing their device drivers, apps, and launcher on top of Froyo. Most of these apps or skinned apps we previously developed by Motorola because they have had already released Froyo to other devices including Defy USA. I love to know how Motorola's Quality Assurance processes didn't catch the problems before the build was released to the public. The first thing comes to my mind is the lack of Management and care for Defy (not going to judge them on other handsets).

Not a surprise to many of us Motorola doesn't see any obligations to what they do and haven't even provided an explanation about it. In late May 2011 Mark (Forums Manager of Motorola, Nice Guy) writes in this thread:

"UPDATE: These countries have been temporarily removed. We're working on providing a explanation for this. 5/31/11"

Motorola hasn't released any statements regarding to the situation as of 05 June, 2011.

You can read about the frustrations of Defy users in India in this thread or this one.
[Defy General] :
Thank you for your inputs and taking your time to share you views with the rest of us. Just wanted to point out that not everyone is angry with this thread, only a couple of people.
[Defy General] :
The quote in above was something "SWAT AXEL" wrote in response in this thread. Interesting enough I came across this thread reading his response to the thread's author:

I'm not going to call it a double standard, but can I ask if you have had a change of heart regarding the long wait for the update?
[Defy General] :
Today hasn't been a good day for Motorola users and fans. First, once again Motorola backtracked from their earlier promise. You can read about it in this article about Photon 4G bootloader. Secondly, UK users today (09 June 2011) posted five pages of questions/frustrations as to why Motorola left them in the dark for so long. You can read about the comments starting from page 59 in here.
[Defy General] :
Today, 10 July 2011, none of known Motorola's Defy Forum Board (Non-US) TRose and Mark submitted a single post to answer Defy related questions. I wish I was Motorola's employee too. Everything seems too easy in Motorola.

The fiasco with India update continues and those are affected by earlier faulty updates required to find a repair service to get it sorted, unbelievable.

At the time of this post...

Last Post Submitted By Mark was 22 hours ago

Last Post Submitted By TRose was 18 hours ago
[Defy General] zencoran:
HAHAHA im a bit late, but i saw this on page 1, the reason why his first post was to tell you off was because he thought your post was soo stupid he just had to make an account to remind you of your stupidity ;)
[Defy General] :
You have chosen to ignore all other posts that were in support of my arguments plus the 5 thank you I got for my posts in this thread. In fact you called anyone in support of my arguments stupid as well. People are smarter than you, they know why you submitted that post.

Incidently, I have checked your profile. 99% of your posts are about asking for help for your Defy. You had an opportunity to support Defy community but instead you decided to insult members of that community. I guess that makes you a clever person among the rest of us.
[Defy General] :
Some of Defy users' comments submitted to Motorola's forums today only (13 June 2011):
[Defy General] :
Just spoke to T-Mobile UK support team to find out more information about the upcoming update. I have to say I'm not comfortable with the accuracy of the information I was given, hence don't read as an absolute fact.

Q: Do you have a release date for Motorola Defy's Android 2.2?

A: No

Q: Are you sure your system is not showing anything?

A: Yes

Q: How long before you know about a release update?

A: Normally a month before releasing a handset or an update

Q: Motorola already promised to release it by Q2 which is due to end this month.

A: She acted out not hearing me and then cut me off

The conclusion is T-Mobile has no release date for the update. I think that tells me the claim that carriers dictate updates are unfounded. It is entirely up to Motorola when the updates are released.
[Defy General] sonhy:
nice way to increase your post count...

anyways, for my 2 cents:

I hate my defy and motorola as well, so i torture my defy everyday by waterboarding it, to remind me not to buy motorola again... but the darn thing keeps on working!!!
[Defy General] :
I'm sorry to hear you are yet another unhappy Motorola customer.

I have passed the age caring about things like post counts, status, and so on. I've been trying to be informative and provide supporting facts to my arguments every time someone from Motorola or a fanboy tries to cover up the truth.
[Defy General] :
"Motorola Sucks" Facebook Is Open For Business

I remember someone in this thread suggested to have a thread/page on Facebook to show public about Motorola's reputation. Well, someone just did that, not too sure when.

Here is the link: https://supportforums.motorola.com/message/405620#405620. I don't use Facebook but I loved what Matt (the admin) did.

Gingerbread here we come...lol sorry got too excited.
[Defy General] :
Finally UK Retail Froyo 2.2.2 is released today, with the known bugs I bet. T-Mobile and Voadafone UK should follow soon. I'm pleased Motorola took retail owners of Defy seriously enough to provide the updates sooner.
[Defy General] topiratiko:
Lotta bickering in here...ive said before and are saying it again. Motorola is everything OPPOSITE of the Android OPEN Source Project (aosp) You cant possibly buy one of their handsets and be a fan of android. NOW theyre saying they MAY unlock future bootloaders...too little WAY too late. Motorola=crapola...wont look even ONCE at anything they put out. This company is epic fail (locked bootloaders) after epic fail (motoblur). ALL GARBAGE.

Sent from my 2.3.3 Ext4 Fresh Ginger Blue equipped Samsung Captivate. Yea I get 2000+ on quadrant. Yea ive pulled 5.17 mbps down from a tower. I appreciate XDA helping me turn this phone into a beast.
[Defy General] johanlh:
Everyone can has their own opinion about a company or brand, however I think that complaining here won't solve your issues with Motorola. You are only making public your dislikes and because of that you will get mixed opinions here. If you really want to do something, send them (Motorola) a letter and stop buying their products. IMHO
[Defy General] :
I feel sorry for T-Mobile and Vodafone UK users still waiting for their updates. Only 10 days left to the end of Q2.
[Defy General] :
I would like to withdraw my compliments to Mark the Motorola's Forum Manager. I apologise to anyone that were offend by my compliment.

I have been following the frustrated UK users who are still waiting for the updates (T-Mobile UK & Vadafone UK) on Motorola's forum. You can read more about it in here. Keeping this thread alive to lend them support out of Motorola's comfort zone, their own forums.

The aggression of someone who is on Motorola's payroll is totally unacceptable so as the users'. I have to sympathise with users though because they have been left in the dark for so long.

A user writes:

Version 2.3 is an innocent mistake, s/he meant to say 2.2.

Mark Replies...

I don't know about you but that is a clear threat to me in the first line. Then Mark claims Motorola never made a promise that "all Defy" will be upgraded. Here is the page where Motorola indicating Q2 as the release quarter in 2011 for all Defy.

I did read the page, other than the data in the tables, for the very first time today and I have to agree with Mark. They have fooled us all this time without anyone notice how deceptive Motorola actually is. Name another handset manufacturer in the world that does this so I can call them deceptive too. You are nasty Motorola, and indeed your company should be disgraced.

You will find the following quote on top of the page:

Liars. shame on you Motorola, you never ever shared anything with your customers even when they asked you countless of times.

You will find the following paragraph at the bottom of the page, where most users (99.999999999999999999999999999%) would visit the page to check release dates not to come and find about the small prints. Please pay attention to the bold part of the paragraph below.

Basically, I gambled purchasing a Defy not knowing Motorola gave themselves the rights not to provide me with the update that I based my purchase on. Mark's reply is just that "If we want to we won't give you the release". My head is just spinning that Motorola can take my money and tell me to f off now.

I learned today I should not make business with a company that reserves the rights not to support their own products, not even 'Maintenance updates' as clearly indicated in above paragraph, "any product". "Any product" is very ambiguous term for legal reasons. A single page document can be called a product in other context.

Why don't you try honesty for a change Motorola?
[Defy General] topiratiko:
Ive said it before and are saying it again. Motorola is everything OPPOSITE of the Android OPEN Source Project (aosp) You cant possibly buy one of their handsets and be a fan of android. NOW theyre saying they MAY unlock future bootloaders...too little WAY too late. motorola=Crapola...wont look even ONCE at anything they put out. This company is epic fail (locked bootloaders) after epic fail (motoblur) after epic fail (customer service). ALL GARBAGE.

One more time. Just cuz i DESPISE this company. I wont comment on motocrapola again.

Sent from my 2.3.3 Ext4 Fresh Ginger Blue equipped Samsung Captivate.
[Defy General] :
I couldn't agree more with your points. I don't get it how a company can take over six months to destroy the user experience of higher version of an OS (Froyo 2.2.2) this easily? Three conclusions: one, Motorola is doing it on purpose to lure users to buy their flagship handsets, not realising (being so stupid) they are actually destorying their own customers base. Two, the people in charge in Motorola are simply incompetent in understanding what users want. Three, they think customers are stupid and accept whatever is thrown at them.
[Defy General] jasontx:
Anytime someone acts a fool on a forum the moderator has the right to warn the user, which was what Mark did. He has a tough job representing Motorola and their upgrade "schedule" and I think he does a great job with what he has. He is just doing his job, which entails representing the Moto user base and defending the company he works for. It says in bold print that nothing on that schedule is a promise, although I understand how people could feel otherwise. It is a bit misleading, as any contract with fine print is.

My first smart phone was the Cliq XT, I waited forever for that upgrade. It stayed on the upgrade page forever, and then the upgrade was canceled. I still liked the phone and that gave me a reason to root/rom it. Now the Cliq XT has an official CM7, which is better than any Froyo Moto would have thrown at it. The Cliq XT works wonderfully for what it is running CM7.

The company reserves the right to produce products as they see fit. They also reserve the right to not promise upgrades but plan for them and let the consumers know what they are trying to achieve. It is our right to be upset about it if we please also, but that doesn't make Moto wrong. Just don't do business with the company anymore.
[Defy General] lotfib:
You're absolutely right! However Motorola shouldn't give a date for an outdated update and they're not even capable of achieving in time and when they do is full of bugs, giving their customers a good product that is dysfunctional. Legally ? They're not wrong when they don't keep up with the dates they announce. Business wise ? This is extremely wrong especially when you know how late they are compared to the rest of their competitors !
[Defy General] :
I would like to say, all you have said make sense in one context but not in another. What I mean is, all your points are valid but from whose point of view? For instance, from whose point of view a customer acts like a fool? Is it from the point of view of those refuse to listen and to provide?

I have nothing against Mark as a “person”, he can be the best dad in the world or a best friend as far as I’m concerned but you have to understand Mark is being paid by a company that has a lot of dissatisfied customers including me. This is a deception on Motorola's behalf that hires someone to face customers online and then to be told the hired person has nothing to do with the company. If Mark is not happy to take some heats due to the setup Motorola provided, not customers, then obviously he has other options to consider. I have seen time after time many user enquiries went unnoticed but as soon as there was some kind of comment about him or other handpicked moderators he came out of his hiding and started lecturing people. They are the ones creating two fronts on their forums not the customers.

From Motorola’s point of view, having no legal obligations to provide anything for their customers is glorious, isn’t it? It fits them so well, they probably paid someone to come in and tell them what they can do to make life easier for the company. However, I value the money I give to a company and my minimum expectation after business transaction is a reasonable support. In world of mobile phones this is my minimum expectation the manufacturers provide the maintenance updates and very reasonable to expect software upgrades (not forever of course). Should a company provide that level of service to me then they got themselves a long term customer. What good that does to me knowing I have purchased a product from a company that sooner or later going to tell me “I told you so”.

Regarding your Cliq XT comments, not all customers had a happy ending like yours, not all customers are equally technical to take advantage of a third party effort to give value to a product they purchased from someone else.

The law makers also gave us the tool to make us to believe we should be obedient by saying “No one is above the law”. In fact I believe as a responsible human being “no law is above me”. Now the entire imposed obedience is changed in favour of humanity. Motorola or any other companies cannot lay out self-convenience policies and expect to get away with it. In case of support, if they cannot guarantee to provide it then they should not be in the business. As far as I’m concerned this is a deception that a company banks on people’s ignorance to make money. I’m already paying for not listening to Cliq XT users’ experience and not reading the update page carefully, otherwise I would not have bought my phone from Motorola.

Sorry didn’t mean to write this long.
[Off-topic] gyako:
Hello everybody.

I need to research about smartphone apps users for my graduation final project. It's a simple and short survey, and will help me A LOT if you answer it.

bit.ly/k2RGKG (sorry, can't post links)

When completed, I will post the results here so you can see them!
[Galaxy S II Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] glenner05:
like the tittle says, does our beloved galaxy 2 support HD voice? I don't find any info about it, but i believe i saw it mentioned in an early thread about someone who had the phone very early. I don't seem to find it anymore...

This technology is supported by my network Mobistar in Belgium, that's why i was wondering...so...Does anybody know?