yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Defy General] Fotogravin:
When I bought the Defy, I knew about the slow update policy of Motorola, I knew about the locked bootloader. I knew that if I would buy an HTC phone I would have updates sooner, I would have custom roms with custom kernels. I also knew that would cost me about 100 euros more, give me lower sound quality, a more vulnerable phone. So I had to make a choice, en chose the Defy. You could have known the same, regardless of what companies say. Just read about different phones on forums like this.

Hardly any company will be 100% honest about their money-making policies. Just use your common sense and you'll know that almost every buisness has only one core buisness: to make money. Some companies will give you more service, other companies give less service to be able to lower the prices of their products. It's up to you to make a choice what you value more. I chose for a lower price and some restrictions in customizing and a tougher phone. You maybe should have chosen to pay a bit more to have more freedom.
[Defy General] CSharpHeaven:
I bought Defy base on the promise of Froyo but didn't expect six months of wait. Why it takes a global company about six months to release an update? It is not like they are doing all the Android development, is it?.

I don't understand why you are blindly defending Motorola. Without our money Motoroal would be nothing. I will survive without a Mobile phone but does Motorola survive without our money?

At least in the UK, with 24 months contract you are not saving anything on the handset itself. Some plans actually work out even more expensive. Please name a business that passes on the savings to the customers? They are greedy and you are happy to defend them all for free.
[Defy General] CSharpHeaven:
Those people bought Motorola CLIQ were promised updates but Motorola didn't deliver. I guess that is ok by you because Motorola didn't force them to buy anything from them in the first place. And the millions of dollars Motorola spends advertising is just to show off their products to other companies not to encourage us consumers to depart from our money.

My friend, there is no relation between you are being happy with your purchase from Motorola and the rest of us has to shut up about not being happy.

I'm not going to mention the Defy's earpiece fiasco.
[Defy General] SWAT AXEL:
listen fast judger , i don't care about the update that what is about to be released , the point is that you can work smoother than iphone.

Second thing is you will never get the full control of any other company such as samsung and htc.

Each one has it's on bad staff ,so if you feel damn bad just try others and live the disappointing.
[Defy General] JackSparrow17:
I think ur very disappointed with Companies like Motorola for Locked Boot loader and no Updates and ur Phone lags.....So why don't you buy Nokia 3210..No bootloader problem and no Update problem and it never Lags... ;)
[Defy General] iamoct:
I believe they will soon. If another don't why they need to.

Samsung : Unlock

LG : Unlock

SE : Able to Unlock

HTC : Reviewing
[Defy General] vikrambharadwaj:
Dude.. What the hell are you talking about?? When the froyo update gets released in UK and when you flash it you will not notice any difference between the stock eclair and the froyo.. Dont simply go by the versions of android that gets released.. Check what the version of Android offers you.

Coming to your bootloader issue, What if its locked or unlocked? why the hell a layman care if he has a locked or an unlocked BL? All he wants is a fancy phone which he can use for his purpose, If the BL is not locked developers might even port windows 7 to defy but thats not what a layman wants or cares.

And coming to your policy for making money.. All companies try to make money and you talk as though samsung and nokia shell out there money for charity..

Your defy is the best mid range Android device you can get in the market, I visited tons of forums before I decided to buy it. If you are not happy with the service call the service desk or mail them.. Dont waste your time showing your agitation on Moto here.
[Defy General] CSharpHeaven:
Motorola is going to use every last days in Q2 to make sure Froyo is not released for Defy to increase the sale of their newer handsets with Froyo. I'm not happy about this dirty tactic from a company that already got my money. I suspect they will use the same dirty tactics with Atrix that I used to keep my eyes on for. I'm not going to let them trick me twice.

Exercising my rights to speak is so wonderful. Thank you XDA team for the opportunity.
[Defy General] confusedfella:
I don't know why it takes them so long, but you knew they tend to stretch update schedules, so why the hell did you buy a motorola phone? You said it right there "without our money motorola would go bankrupt" so thats why you don't buy motorola phones if you think they are doing it wrong, they'll have to adapt(better customer support,unlocked bootloader..etc) to overcome a potential crisis. They promised Froyo and you will get it, but when I don't know. You're blaming a company for your bad choices no one is making you buy their phones.

Im pretty satisfied with my purchase, It has an awesome screen size, is pretty fast and small. And for a small price. If you can't wait anymore for froyo, flash an official rom or go buy another phone. I learned it the hard way.
[Defy General] :
Hello again :)

You keep missing my point, if I didn't like my Defy I wouldn't be this disappointed and mad about late update to Froyo. I never said I didn't like my handset. Check my positive comments about Defy when I joined XDA. I didn't know Motorola was like this and never used XDA prior to purchasing my Defy because I never used any other smart phones before.
[Defy General] vikrambharadwaj:
Dude... Stop judging things.. Both defy and Atrix are from the same company and in fact Atrix is not released in all the geo locations like defy.. If you are happy with your phone and desperate for the updates please hold on your horses..
[Defy General] :
And the Atrix has 2.2 already and 2.3 is coming within a few weeks. SE hasn't even released 2.3 for their phones (I mean as upgrades, not on their new phones) and LG hasn't either (except for the 2x). HTC has given 1 upgrade to the Desire and now abandoned it. Desire-users don't get 2.3, but the rest of the series does.

So how that Motorola make bad? The competitors are doing that too. So it doesn't make any sense to blame Motorola if their competitors (except for Samsung) do almost the same. This just common trolling. I'm a Motorola-fanboy, but I agree with that dude on the previous page. Don't like their policy? Don't buy it. But don't expect the competitors to be better, 'cause they aren't.
[Defy General] Jakethepeg:
and want to complain, take it to Moto, pointless spamming on here with it
[Defy General] salingpusa:
imho everybody has a point, but it is still motorolas decision and strategy on how they will stand up against competition. But if you will think about it, how, we, users or clients should convince motorola more effectively that they should listen to us more often? :)
[Defy General] confusedfella:
I understand that you like it, but you should have researched before you bought the phone. Same thing happened to me, I bought a Nokia N900 without doing sufficient research only to find out that nokia is giving it absolutely horrible support.

Now although motorola is late, I can still flash another rom so I'm not bound to the motorola just like I was bound to Nokia on improvements and features.
[Defy General] iamoct:
You are wrong.

SE announce they will not upgrade their old gen device beyond 2.1.

Slow or never which one is better :eek:
[Defy General] syl0n:
Xperia X10 will get 2.3.3
[Defy General] lanfearxt:
everyone else probably said what i wanted to say, except, where does the ENDANGERING PEOPLE LIVES come from?? Motorola dont update your phone to Froyo and someone might die? classic dude! kinda sums up your arguments here! :rolleyes:
[Defy General] farsight73:
Practically all consumers/users I've seen are all about demanding... give me.. give me.. give me, and then complaining alot. Very few of us ever appreciate what we have.

And this sames goes to mobile phone companies as mostly they give bad support. So if you think back it's all about balance back. You buy a phone and expect almost immediately software update whereas phone companies try to delay it hoping you to buy their latest released range of other phones and they mean bussiness rather than listening your mumblings around.

If you go to Nokia or SonyEricsson or HTC or iphone. You would still face the same issue somehow somewhere along the journey on a different scenario, of course unsatisfied feeling on these products... There's almost certainly nothing in the world would just give-support-listen and then give again-support again-listen again to you as an end user.
[Defy General] :
People are directly complaining to Motorola on their own Forums:

Example One: link Directly attacking Motorola for their poor services

Example Two: link Directly attacking Motorola for their poor services

Example Three: link Concerned Defy user with the update

Example Four: link Another concerned customer looking for the promised update

Example Five: link Another customer looking for the update

All above examples were taken from the first page only for Non-US users. If you are happy to have 2.1 or use cutom roms it doesn't mean the rest of us should be happy too. We understand a company has obligations and they are not fulfilling it.
[Defy General] :
Here are advantages of Android 2.2 that we missed for the past six months because someone at Motorola decided Defy users don't deserve it, not yet anyway.

1. Android 2.2 Froyo. Explains the improvements in Android 2.2

2. New features from Android 2.1 to Android 2.2 Froyo

3. Android 2.2 shows a 450% speed boost over 2.1

Before submitting this post I installed SmartBench 2011 and ran it twice. My scores are:

Productivity: 369

Games Index: 1451

Please note: No over or under clocking

I found another Defy in the score index with Android 2.2.1 (stock rom), no overclocking. It scores:

Productivity: 588

Games Index: 1303

As I have heard Motorola somehow degraded the graphic performance in 2.2 as the default video player no longer plays 720p videos. The lower Games index may have something to do with that.

In short, my Defy that "I like very much" has been under performing, missed all the features in 2.2, and worse of all missed all apps that requires Android 2.2 for the past six months.

All those smart people at Motorola with six figure salaries couldn't figure out giving a product with lower productivity (not scoring wise) will deter customers from being loyal.
[Defy General] Fotogravin:
Still you could have read a bit more before purchasing a phone you could have known that it wouldn't for your "needs". And what about the superb work done by so many devs on this forum and elsewhere? Motorola doesn't give me gingerbread right now? Well, I can install cm7. And right now it works much better than eclair ever did. So why should you complain?

Don't be so dependent on corporations, that'll cost you much more, while you get less...

Did smartbench: 808 and 1674. No overclocking
[Defy General] agent__orange:
stop feeding this dumbass..
[Defy General] Gusar321:
He's not a dumbass. Far from it. He has a valid point. Just yesterday, HTC announced they'll stop locking bootloaders. Because of pressure from the users. Who knows, maybe miracles do happen and Motorola will find out they need to do the same. But this can only happen if pressure on Motorola continues.
[Defy General] :
As the number of unhappy customers are increasing with official 2.2 update (India) I have totally lost my confidence and concerned the UK version will suffer from the same poor quality too.

I am now seriously thinking to depart from my Defy only because of the software side of things and Motorola's failure dealing with software quality.
[Defy General] nicksti:
Motorola is no worse than Samsung or Sony Ericsson. HTC is by far the best and put all the other manufacturers to shame. And newer, faster, better Android phones come on the market and make the old ones look old. This problem is not unique to your Defy.

Locked bootloaders matter to the techies. Not to average consumers. It adds a layer of complexity when you have to have people check to make sure customers are not returning phones with altered bootloaders, or having to return them to the stock bootloader. Let me ask you the reverse question: Why is Motorola going through all this trouble to lock the bootloaders if there is no point to it? just to frustrate people? Businesses spend money to save money.

I find Apple more arrogant. But their CS is top notch.

Endagering people's lives huh? Think of the kids! How can a post be taken seriously when you are claiming locked bootloaders and poor service is endagering people's lives?
[Defy General] :
What does that mean? I'm not going to reward Motorola for being less worse now.

I have already made a comment about it, companies doing it to reduce repair cost while the product is under the warranty. My comments about the bootloader was about some people put the blame on Mobile Network Providers. My point has already been proven right.

By the way, businesses spend money to earn money.

Couldn't agree more.

I made a comment about Nokia in the leading statement I made about endangerment. I guess you did not make the connection.

Thank you for posting a reply anyway.
[Defy General] nicksti:
But you do not see a problem making an analytical assessment of Motorola and locked bootloaders and slow updates, and then mentioning a totally unrelated point that companies are putting lives at risk?

"Motorola is a terrible company! Worst CS and horrible products! have they learnt nothing from the Gulf Coast oil spill?"

But you know what is funny to me? Apple tries very hard to defeat the jailbreakers yet people do not seem to go around *****ing about them. Cuz people want their products, so they accept it and ***** at the jailbreakers about why they have not cracked the code yet.
[Defy General] lanfearxt:
Stop feeding the troll
[Defy General] Darmach:
I really don't get all of You guys defending Motorola so strong....... This is my first Moto phone... and if bootloader policy won't change - it will be the last one.... Had HTC before, had Samsung Galaxy... ...and i didn't even think that locked bootloader will be so bad for me...

Even on low end Samsung i5700 many things could be accomplished by flashing a custom kernel - and honestly i didnt thought that much about it BEFORE i bought a moto...

I was thinking about buying Desire or Defy, and my choice was Defy - thank god for that - because it has survived few things already, that Desire wouldn't survive for sure ,)... but i really get frustrated when my friends with Desire (have 2 of them) or Galaxy S (3 of them) are getting new updates, (most of them running custom 2.3) or nice kernel mods...

For example what i miss the most - it was a modified battery driver in Galaxy i5700 Which for most of all charged battery up to 4.25 V (Safe top voltage for Li-Ion cells - while now on Froyo i have max 4.164) and most of all - REPORTED BATTERY with 1% accuracy. With modified framework-res.apk you got circular battery with 1% stepping.

And yes - i know that i can use Motocharge app (which i am using actually) but it feels like workaround for me - not the way the things should be implemented.
[Defy General] nepotu:
Darmach if you install a custom rom like CM7 on Defy you can also get Android 2.3.4, 1% stepping, circular battery and so on... (you can apply Mixer_1.apk-honeybattery theme from this topic)
[Defy General] topiratiko:
Bored. Grilling ribeyes in the garage due to rain. Wanted to throw my 10 cents in. I would NEVER buy a motorola phone. Theyre attitude vs bootloaders is unacceptable to anyone who understands what the android OPEN source project (AOSP) is all about. Their twitter post on locking bootloaders made me erupt in laughter. If your upgrade is near, DITCH them. If not, render your phone useless through a flash gone wrong and demand another make through your carrier. Id rather have an i phone than look at that m logo. Motorola is TRASH. Im sure ill see some of you on the other side. Samsung or Htc is the way to go. Preferably an SII
[Defy General] topiratiko:
Just my 10 cents

Sent from my 2.3.3 Ext4 Fresh Ginger Blue equipped Samsung Captivate.
[Defy General] ABC_Universal:
Just research before purchase. Moto makes its choice and you can make your choice as well :rolleyes:
[Defy General] :
What a joke Motorola is...

In this post, on Motorola's forum, Motorola is inviting UK users to give up 25 minutes of their time to fill out a survey form. 25 mins x n (n = number of defy users) when in over 180 days that I owned my Defy Motorola hasn't even released Froyo to the UK users yet.

I did try to look at the questions to find out what truly Motoroal is after. Unfortunately, when I tried to visit the link provided in the .pdf file I got this message;

"Thank you very much for you willingness to participate.

Unfortunately we have already reached the required number of responses.

Sorry for any inconvenience and thank you again for your cooperation!"

The post on the Motorola's forum that was posted today (02 June, 2011) said the invitation email will be recieved in coming days.
[Defy General] feffe73:
ehi ...are you unhappy about your defy ?

i'll buy it for 300 euro, now, so you are able to buy you preferred HTC or what else

I buy Moto since 1998, 13 years of satisfied customer.
[Defy General] :
Please give me one good logical reason why I should judge Motorola base on your experience rather than mine?

I would like to take your offer on €300 please. How should we do this?
[Defy General] :
Good assembled hardware like Defy is not good enough without descent software quality (features, reliability, and performance). You don't take my word for it? Read the comments people are making about Motorola in this Engadget's article.

Motorola is truly becoming a laughing stock now. I really don't get any pleasure in saying that Motorola is an arrogant company and feel no obligations towards their customers. This global company doesn't understand public relationship and don't understand how to communite with their own customers. All they have done, hired some people to moderate their online forums whom are not informed about anything.

If a global company can't set out a release date for their own upcoming updates, not even in the last month of their own time frame, then they should not be in the business of Mobile phones. I don't own a smartphone for a hobby, in fact I'm relying on my smartphone to do more tasks on daily basis. Because of the update nature of Android that I have to endup resetting everything I have already prepared my phone for that and so far Motorola hans't released the UK update yet. I haven't managed to use my smartphone for the past month and not fully to its potential for the past six months now, all because the company I put my trust in decided it would be beneficial to them to hold on to the update I have already paid for long time ago.
[Defy General] farsight73:
If you think motorola is so so bad in so so many areas.. and if you think motorola isn't any near good as those HTC, Samsung or iPhone... Then try to think again you are not any near good yourself compare to all the peoples around. Different company hold different policy and you made your choice in the first place by reading the specifications of Defy and decided to purchase it, so if motorola decided to let Defy stay at 2.1 then it's their decision not you, if motorola decided to delay the Defy froyo release then again is their decision not you. Defy build with 3.7in screen also their decision not you. Defy resist water and its motorola decision not you. Defy had stronger screen of gorilla glass and its motorola decision not you.

If having Defy unlock bootloader, I know you would just sit down waiting someone to come out something and you grap it and that's you. You're not a developer, you just demanding nonsense.

See, you made a choice in the first place by buying the Defy and nobody in the world had force you to do so. You paid your Defy 6 months ago by means of just running Eclair 2.1 stated clearly in the specifications and nothing more and don't say you can not run any simple application downloaded from the market. It's your mistake in the first place and now you're trying to deviate your own wrong decision by blaming motorola for being lame..

I hope you made another wrong decision in near future... You already boycott Nokia, next may be Motorola, soon Samsung and so on.you would one day end up using back the public phone, as I see you would never satisfied on anything

Sent from my awesome Moto Defy - XDA Premium
[Defy General] farsight73:
Double post.. Internet interrupted..
[Defy General] farsight73:
Sorry double post... Internet interrupted
[Defy General] :
I have not compared Motorola to any of those companies you mentioned. You should have read my other posts first before making assumptions.

I bought Defy base on the promise of Android 2.2 not 2.1. As a customer I don't understand why I have to wait over 180 days for that "promise". But what you are in fact saying is that if Motorola decided not to release any updates then you will be a happy man like the first day your purchased your Defy. You should have said the same thing to the people purchased CLIQ.

I'm a software developer of 20 years, providing you are not a software developer yourself, between us I have the ability to learn the inner working of Andoid OS to develop my own Andoid software or ROMs. You have made another poor assumption my friend.

I found your argument about this is being my choice or I wasn't forced to purchase my Defy quite childish to be honest.

You have allowed yourself to judge me several times and finally decided how my future is going to be like, you don't see anything wrong with yourself? Like I'm talking about a Business Entity but you are talking to another human being?
[Defy General] :
Source

Appreantly the CEO of Motorola has a good understanding about customer frustration in relation to other applications but not their own though?

In a way, this validates my frustration with Motorola's ignorance that they already know the difference between Android 2.1 and 2.2 in terms of productivity but then again when it comes to practice what they preach they misrably fail.
[Defy General] feffe73:
so man...i think something goes wrong in your reasoning.

you say motorola is not honest to their comsumer and you made the same with me??

i offer you 300 euro for the phone, but for you, his value is less than this.

why you want to sell me a phone not already updated to froyo?

your behavior is the same that motorola.

think about this.

( i bought my defy for less than 200$...only a mad pay any phone over 250 $).

bye bye
[Defy General] :
You forgot to quote your original comment. I'll do that for you...
[Defy General] nicksti:
I do not believe the OP is a troll, but this is definitely nerd rage.

Motorola took a stance. A public stance that everyone that frequents this board is well aware of.

So how are they so disgraceful? You were not tricked.

Is an open bootloader necessary to support the intended function of a phone? No. CSharpHeaven, you are being melodramatic. HTC went from an open to locked bootloader policy, which I believe is worse. That is why they had to make the strong comments they did about "now and forever" their bootlaoders will be unencrypted.

So the only thing we are left with is the fact that someone told you and you responded as being childish.

Do not buy Motorola products if unlocked bootloaders matter to you. I bought my Defy because it is the best mid-ranged phone on the market right now. I do not care about modding my phone. I know some others do.

Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'.
[Defy General] hellgnomo:
motorola have a really bad policy