yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] starplaya93:
I understand what you're saying, but you have to realize that HTC isn't doing anything that any of the other companies aren't doing, so what do they have to lose?

We can moan and groan all we want but at the end of the day where are we going to turn to? Motorola? Samsung? LG?

HTC is one of the biggest phone manufacturers out there and they have a stronghold on the android community and regardless of what they do their sales are going to be good... If some competition comes out and offers us something new then HTC may start taking hits but as for now nothing is going to change. We can hold on to our OG EVOs for a decade before motorola/samsung/lg/htc decide to release a phone with an unlocked bootloader while all of the uneducated consumers are using their blazing fast 6g/d EVOs and galaxy 10s... no sweat off of HTCs back.
[EVO 4G General] Stalte:
I really hope your right.....

Sent from from the last HTC phone with freedom
[EVO 4G General] rockypr:
HTC can simply make an Update OTA to change things, or more simply, have someone to leak the info Devs Need, and we are free to go. Devs will get the EVO 3D rolling...
[EVO 4G General] starplaya93:
without doubt but definitely not without a fight
[EVO 4G General] RileyGrant:
I honestly think HTC is taking notice to this situation and if we push hard enough now we have the ability to make a difference. If you truly do care about the future of HTC's devices I recommend you visit www.wakeuphtc.com and email as many of the people listed there as possible. Your help can and will make a difference.
[EVO 4G General] Stalte:
Engadget just picked it up!!!

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/25/evo-3d-shipping-with-locked-down-bootloader-but-htc-may-reconsi/
[EVO 4G General] Hrshycro:
I hope you all know who's fault this really is:Google's.

At this point in time, I won't own an Android phone that I can't load a custom rom onto. The factory roms are complete **** and we all know that. Everyone I know who has owned their evo for over a month or more (about 5) - their phones barely respond to touch. I have to press the dialer 3-6 times before it actually responds. I load them up with a custom rom and they're like: WOW, this is like a new phone all over again.

So, to me, if you can't load a custom rom onto an android phone, you might as well buy an iPhone because at least those are jailbreakable; when you jailbreak, it expands what possibilities of iOS 10x, more-so than rooting does, and the best part is, the phone's OS always works. I'm not going to pay for something that barely works in the first place.
[EVO 4G General] Vegasden:
I skimmed thru this thread, so forgive me if I've repeated anything already said.

I believe HTC's decision to make it virtually impossible to root their upcoming phones is a mistake. And, hopefully the reconsideration will go the way we are urging. And, I am equally hopeful HTC will realize that "opening" their phones has been and will continue to be beneficial to them as well.

Call me a sceptic, but I really believe that HTC has already benefited and those in their Engineering Department may be able to persuade the powers to be. I am sceptical because I believe a lot of the "leaks" we've seen and experimented with were purposefully "leaked". HTC is a very large company. One or maybe 2 leaks I can buy, but not the number we've seen, especially lately. They could easily have found the leak source(s) and closed them but we keep seeing them. Why the leaks? What better a test pool than a large group of knowledgeable people to test, finding bugs and making improvements to their supposed "leaked" software. At least that's what I think.

While not HTC, look what Google did with the 4g code. It was primarily written by Team Win.. improving on what was out there. Now that code is being used in mainstream phones. I can only imagine what HTC has been able to garner from these and other forums.

So, if HTC locks these forums out, they've lost their "testing grounds" and "army" of developers that have been improving their products, albeit for free.

.....
[EVO 4G General] mlin:
You may be right but this defeatist attitude is pretty much useless.
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
Actually, there have been several companies that have shown they are willing to embrace openness.

Sony is one of them.

Motorola changed their policy when it comes to the Xoom and hopefully future phones.

With your negativity we should just all kill ourselves now...I mean, we're gonna die eventually right?
[EVO 4G General] fixxxer2008:
as said before this community only makes up a very small % of users out there. most do not even root or unlock their phones. this is not going to hurt htc or sprint.
[EVO 4G General] xHausx:
Sure it will, if HTC wants to attract developers to create 3d apps for them locking the phone up like that is a bad way to do it. Especially since Cyanogen is said to already have LG's 3D instead
[EVO 4G General] fixxxer2008:
im still willing to bet the 3d ships locked down. they cannot make changes at this point or it would delay the launch. your right, it could be fixed by an OTA but im more willing to bank on "future" phones not being locked.
[EVO 4G General] a1platnum:
While I will agree with the word of mouth statement. I will slightly disagree with hardcore users affecting the sales. Mainstreamers buy the phone because people say it's good, not because it can be rooted. I know of 10 EVOs that friends and family have, and not a one has it rooted. Like stated earlier they don't even know what is rooting a phone. I know of 8 that want the 3D. Don't think sales are gonna hurt much.

Swyped from my HTC Supersonic: EVO 4G
[EVO 4G General] tejasrichard:
Motorola and Sony are both releasing phones with unlocked bootloaders, and Sony has instructions on their site describing, in detail, how to create your own custom kernel.
[EVO 4G General] tejasrichard:
Who do you think told them it was good in the first place? Mainstream users don't follow engadget and gizmodo.
[EVO 4G General] Zabalba:
I totally agree with this statement. Due to my direct and indirect influence I convinced 9 people to get the EVO 4G phone. Needless to say I already pre-ordered the 3D. But I can always cancel. What do you think I will say to these same people when they ask me for my input for the 3D?. They definitely won't see my enthusiasm.
[EVO 4G General] djnarcotics:
any chance at this proposed "boot loader policy" surfacing for us to actually dig into it
[EVO 4G General] rstuckmaier:
Suppose I should try to help some arguments:

The argument the encryption is because of Sprint: most of these arguments come down to the tethering reasoning. The Evo3d will still be able to "temp root" and allow tethering so this argument is moot.

The argument the encryption is because of Google: I don't even know where to begin because there is no "why" reasoning to counter. This makes no sense, it is false. Google would rather have complete control but they choose to allow OEMs to make this decision.

The argument the encryption is because of HTC: ding ding! HTC is the only one who looks to benefit from this. No full rooting means less people messing up their phones ("accidentally" of course) and less warranty claims. HTC loses 100% when they fix something in warranty. If they can lessen this problem they are going to.

Exactly as stated before: HTC will weigh the warranty losses against the sales losses. Whichever is better for their bottom line will win.

The rooting community may be small. Honestly until I see legitimate numbers I don't believe 1%/5% or anything for that matter. One this is for certain: over 30,000 EVO owners use CyanogenMod: fact. And almost 10x as many people use CM overall. This doesn't even account for people using other custom ROMs: Myns, netarchy, virus, misc ports, etc.

The rooting community does more than simply pay for the phone. I bought an Evo, shortly after I rooted it. I have since recommended to people to buy HTC. My sister has an Dinc. My coworker had an EVO and switched to a Dinc when she moved to Verizon. My other coworker's son got an EVO. Another coworked got an EVO shift. I convinced an iPhone junky to get an EVO. I helped a friend root and put CM on his EVO (he already owned it) but that inspired another friend of his to buy an EVO and do the same. The list goes on (but that's all I can think of off the top of my head).

At least 7 sales based on my purchase and subsequent recommendation.

tl/dr? HTC is responsible for their phones being locked/encrypted and no one else. The rooting community may be "small" be we have strong influence on others' purchases.
[EVO 4G General] Award Tour:
People should start saying good bye to HTC as a home brew friendly brand. The minute they got successful and started to heavily brand/differentiate their Android phones, their future direction was set in stone. They want Sense and HTC services to be the center of their users lives. They are now, and have been aspiring to for a while, emulating their idol - Apple.
[EVO 4G General] Award Tour:
Double post.
[EVO 4G General] tejasrichard:
God, I wish you were wrong. There is still a chance for them to turn the ship, here's hoping they do.
[EVO 4G General] a1platnum:
o_O, so now only engadget and gizmodo followers tell of the goodness of the EVO?

Swyped from my HTC Supersonic: EVO 4G
[EVO 4G General] a1platnum:
Ok, and of those 9 how many rooted? That's why I told tejas I semi agree with the word of mouth statement. But just as you told someone, so did someone who doesn't give two sh*ts if it's not. And we all know it makes up an overwhelming consumer base.

Now the thing that disturbs me is p*ssing off the dev community and losing awesome support.

Swyped from my HTC Supersonic: EVO 4G
[EVO 4G General] gilbydakid:
Srsly? You know how many people won't buy this phone if they can't root it?
[EVO 4G General] tejasrichard:
No, you missed the point. The average person isn't following gadget news at all. They are relying mostly, or entirely on word of mouth and advertising. My point was that the input of the enthusiasts sells a LOT of phones. How many of them rooted afterwards has nothing to do with anything. If this happens, I will not just not buy HTC phones, myself, but I will actively steer my friends and family away from them.

**Ooo!**

Just got this email while I was typing:

Dear Richard,

Thanks so much for providing feedback, we hear your concerns. We value you as a customer and our goal is to give you a great experience with your phone. We're reviewing the issue and our policy around bootloaders and will provide more information in a follow up email soon. Thank you for your interest, support and willingness to share your feedback.

To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number 11USCW22ENA001734.

Sincerely,

Brian

HTC
[EVO 4G General] NewZJ:
Sure hope Brian brings us some good news
[EVO 4G General] Zabalba:
7 out of the 9.

My point was I was not going to encourage the purchase of HTC phones because of their current policies. Why help them propagate their idealogy.

I came from the iPhone 3G. Know one of the main reasons I left that phone? Steve specifically said he never wanted flash on the phone. I thought having the whole web was pretty important. So I made my choice. Since then I have never recommend and iPhone. I always say buy a HTC/Android phone. Because being an open, dev friendly, homebrew, non draconian environment was an important factor for me.

Ask how important those factors are for a community like those with the G1. They have gingerbread....
[EVO 4G General] tejasrichard:
Yep, I'm rooted, my wife's hero is rooted, my best bud's evo is rooted, my wife's best friend and best friend's husband are both rooted (also evo, and hero), and all of those people bought HTC androids based on my purchase of the hero. The status of their root access is still beside the point. The fact that they bought them at all is what is relevant.
[EVO 4G General] CheesyNutz:
im rooted my daughters shift is rooted

my sisters Thunderbolt is rooted

12 of my buddies various android phones are rooted
[EVO 4G General] krazyjay36:
If HTC starts to lock everything then I will stick with my EVO until next year and will go with a Samsung
[EVO 4G General] k2buckley:
The point isn't how many rooted users there are. It is how many of those rooted users and enthusiasts convince their friends and family to buy HTC. I have convinced at least 6 or 7 people to buy HTC and/or switch to sprint. I have always spoke highly of HTC devices. Of those 6 or 7 people I got to buy HTC, they are all very happy and satisfied. Now, when their friends and family ask them what phone to go for, I bet they'll say how awesome their HTC is, and that's what they should buy. Word of mouth is powerful. Had I convinced them all to buy Samsung, what do you think they'd recommended to others when asked? Probably not HTC.
[EVO 4G General] a1platnum:
^this

I understand what you guys are saying, but you're saying it in a forum where the masses are rooted. Here you'll see 7 out of 9 rooted phones. Now, how many of those 7 have you had direct or indirect contact of rooting? All I am saying is that outside of "the circle" there are EVO users that spread the word as you all, only difference is they make up the vast majority, you don't.

Swyped from my HTC Supersonic: EVO 4G
[EVO 4G General] robbyyyyyyy:
im not sure where anyone is getting their numbers for rooted phones vs unrooted phones, but after a quick google search no info is turning up.
[EVO 4G General] ereinhart:
This is exactly what matters, I did the same thing and I also have a bunch more friends that are about to get new phones and they're asking me what to get already and will most likely buy whatever I tell them too, word of mouth is VERY powerful..
[EVO 4G General] mmegalodon:
www.rootedandroidphoneinfo.com

Enviado desde mi PC36100 utilizando XDA Premium de la aplicación
[EVO 4G General] Vegasden:
Here is a good article...with valid points about bottom line profit margins versus locked bootloaders.

http://androidactivist.com/opinion/locked-bootloaders-real-numbers-and-why/

In the article the author makes an estimate of 5% to 6.6% of Android phones are rooted.
[EVO 4G General] tejasrichard:
Except, many folks outside of the hardcore community don't keep up with what is coming out next. You keep bringing up how many of those others are rooted. That has nothing to do with this topic. What does matter is that, when any of them ask me what phone they should upgrade to, and that has already started, imma steer them away from any HTC phone. And it doesn't matter if they would care about rooting the 3D, or not. I'm still gonna advise them to look elsewhere. Providing, that is, that there isn't a change in HTC's bootloader policy.

Edit: I do hear what you are saying about the non-rooting community spreading word of mouth, also. Thing is, how many in the non-rooting group feel the need to be on the bleeding edge? I could be entirely wrong here, but it seems like most folks who upgrade every year and actually follow what phones are going to be coming out, are prolly likely to be modders, or at least be aware of what is going on here.
[EVO 4G General] starplaya93:
The reason the EVO did so well was because sprint/htc spent millions on advertising and did an excellent job highlighting a lot of the EVOs most attractive feature...point blank period...

If the people around you take your word for a $200+ investment for a phone (which I find highly unlikely that more than a couple people would) then good for you, but in all reality it's advertising that reaches the masses not you and I telling our friends how cool the EVO is because they can root it and load custom roms...

Hell I hate explaining to people the process of rooting and it's benefits in the first place because the majority of people are so ignorant and think the evo is a "droid phone"

but hey, who knows... all we are doing here is making blind assumptions about things we're clueless about.

P.S can I get a link to the Sony and Motorola phones that are coming out with unlocked boot loaders. I wanna check them out.
[EVO 4G General] lyrical1278:
THIS is why HTC would listen to the rooting community. I can personally vouch for 4 Evo sales and 2 of those new Sprint contracts.

The rooting community is most likely the person in EVERY family that EVERYONE goes to for tech advice. Hell, I was the reason my wife decided to get an Evo instead of an Epic. Smart businesses know word of mouth is their best level of advertising.

So if the techie in your family gets pissed with HTC about the bootloader issue, guess how many people HTC could possibly lose behind it. After having learned what I learned about business, 1 person with 1 bad experience is almost guaranteed to tell 11 people. Then that 11 tells their friends and so forth.

No business is stupid to ignore those statistics
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
Truf.

We all have android phones now and it definitely wouldn't be that way if not for me.
[EVO 4G General] Vegasden:
It appears the Sprint has made comments regarding this on Daniel Wallace's Facebook page (Daniel is responsible for the http://wakeuphtc.blogspot.com/ )

Someone named Lonnie then posted:

To which the Sprint Rep posted:

Daniel responded:

The link to the conversation:

https://www.facebook.com/sprint/posts/156658601067283
[EVO 4G General] tejasrichard:
Well then, you would be wrong, as multiple personal people's examples have shown. Unless you are trying to imply that people are lying, in which case just come out and say it. I have personally talked 5 other people into buying HTC android phones.

I'll do you one better on the Sony:

Here is a link to an article with all the info.

Guess how long it took me to find this? (hint: it was the first thing that popped up in google)
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
Yeah I said this before, this has nothing to do with the carriers.

All on HTC
[EVO 4G General] B-Mod:
I may still buy the phone, play with it for 30 days, and if they don't unlock it by then, then I will return it, that will teach them if we all send them back, we have the right to do it................
[EVO 4G General] mintilmidnight:
yea its all on them right now all we can do is try to pass the petition around:

http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/#signatures

and try to get as much ppl to sign it as possible just so they see how much they will really lose. and get on HTC's facebook and twitter and email them as much as possible, ive been actively on their facebook trying to get more and more ppl to know whats going on, we just need more ppl to spread the word and get it on news sites like engadget (they did a story) and gizmodo and all the android websites possible.
[EVO 4G General] mintilmidnight:
they better unlock it within those 30 days, that phone would have a staggering amount of returns if they dont

i wish there was a leak a day before it went on sale. i would be okay with htc if they did an anonymous leak
[EVO 4G General] lyrical1278:
The amusing thing is this, if NOT for the whole iPhone situation in which the courts made it legal to jailbreak your phone, none of this whole Sony issuing instructions would be likely
[EVO 4G General] starplaya93:
I understand where everybody is coming from and i'm not trying to imply that anybody is lying. I just don't see the logic in how a handful of users can impact a empire like HTC just through word of mouth while HTC is spending billions on advertising... I'm sure we all play a role to an extent but sooner or later you guys have to open your eyes and realize that there is only so much we can do. Believe it or not but there are other bigger and much more important factors that contribute to companies locking there boot loaders than our tiny community over here... If you don't see/understand that then i'm not sure what more I can say.

Put your emotions and egos aside for a second and take the time to use your logic.

P.S I am without doubt on the dev community side. I've supported devs since the G1 days, I remember beta testing cyanogen, so it's not like I don't have as much love for this community as you guys, it's just i'm willing to face reality and know that there are some things that are just out of our hands.

Locked bootloaders may or may not be one of those things, we'll just have to wait and see.
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
With this defeatist attitude you might as well just kill yourself now...I mean...you're going to die eventually right?

Why is it that when it's time to stand up for yourself most cower to the corner?

I don't care IF YOU THINK it's a losing battle.

I don't care IF IT IS a losing battle, stand up for what the **** is right!
[EVO 4G General] Tilde88:
This... All of this!
[EVO 4G General] mintilmidnight:
that is so right, this is why im working with alchemist to help out in HTC's facebook as well as emailing and doing everything possible, join us all of you if possible and keep on passing the petition around guys we need that badly! we can make a difference and were not gonna give up without a fight!
[EVO 4G General] toneman1984:
I don't care if the fight is already lost. I'm still going to fight it.
[EVO 4G General] immenotu:
How about a boycott? I'm sure most people can afford to wait a month or two while these new devices gather dust. The question is can the manufacturers afford to? Considering there's always something new on the horizon will manufactures or the "big three" be willing to give up market share, while the consumer waits for something they want to own, a more enticing product? Whichever company is considerate of consumer desires may be the big winner. We don't just buy a phone, we commit, in most cases, to a new contract. Once entered you are in a death grip. I do not need another "Big Brother" making choices for me. The key here is to place pressure where it works, Sprint, Verizon, AT&T. Let them apply pressure on the manufactures. Just Say "NO" to crap we don't want.

Maybe I'll manufacture a Frisbee like device that can travel no further than ten feet diminishing the possibility of someone being struck by it. If you do not like it you can exchange it in thirty days for another color. Any takers?
[EVO 4G General] ckoadiyn:
why does everyone say we are a small community we have a ****load of members and granted only some are active but if we got the whole forum to sign it i mean thats a lot of people even if it is just active that ends up signing it....

# Members: 3,891,655

# Active Members: 532,702
[EVO 4G General] White Guala:
bet they will still lock it.
[EVO 4G General] Award Tour:
That they will. Moto is doing just fine.
[EVO 4G General] contradude:
They really don't care. They are going to do what they want... I influence a lot of sales around me because I'm a competent IT guy. Usually if I say a new device is crap, and that I know a better alternative, most people end up with the alternative over the next few months. I really hope they do something about this, but it doesn't really affect me at the moment seeing as I'm on contract. I will steer users away from the new evo unless its perfect on stock rom because there will be no easy way to fix performance issues
[EVO 4G General] daswahnsinn:
Well, this is one phone I'm not getting. I like all the specs, except the 3D. The last places I want 3D is my phone. So I will boycott this one just on principal. I think it is fubar that a company would suggest this, but they are probably tired of getting root/bricked phones sent back to them and they have to pay out to replace them.
[EVO 4G General] u921333:
Another thing is for us xda members 199 for a phone is a must have expense. People like my parents 199 to call or text someone is a crazy expense when they could pick up epic free with upgrade. So its us power users that are waiting in the rain on launch day not the regular phone.

I know that if I wasn't into hacking my phone and I could pick up a phone that looks as nice and save 199 I would. Same reason I have a plasma TV it was 300 less then same size LCD.
[EVO 4G General] u921333:
But moto has already said they are stopping the practice so must of hurt them little more then they thought.