yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
Well, i got it working, but do several backups just in case.

What i wonder now is:

*all files uploaded as binary*

Uploaded a Xml using kino ---> No Import option

Uploaded Cellebrite using kino ---> No import option

Uploaded text.txt using ftp download ---> No import option

*rebooting*

Import option OK

Means that when loading, files (binary type) are processed by the kin?

I tested renaming a Zune exe(from Visual studio) to mp4 and as an exe itself. Zune says it can be played (ok) and nothing happens.

I tested uploading a GBA emulator (wince), also rebooting and nothing happens.

I think now....

What if we upload a Silverlight APP for mobile? It should never happen from user space, cause zune doesnt allow it... And logs show that silverlight is used.

They also say that our apps are App0 to App11 by default rofl.
[KIN Two Software Development] klamation:
My understanding is the UI on the KIN runs Silverlight. I'm not familiar with creating a Silverlight App, or how it would work on a mobile device. Of course, if we can figure out how to get anything to execute, it's worth a try. Maybe a silverlight interface to run in the browser could work? I don't fully know its capabilities.
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
Nah, i meant sample file with helloworld, compile in visual studio for windows phone, and upload with kino.

Then.. rebooting and checking for logs if nothing happens.... I'm having a peek on the ones after putting a wince at storage file. :D.

Anyway.. meh, just long shot ideas. If any app can be launched, we can achieve storage or other capabilities, i guess :D.
[KIN Two Software Development] Marcellus1:
Would Zune apps loaded through KinO run? What about XNA apps?
[KIN Two Software Development] Kinuser1:
John, how long did it take you? I had success and it is taking a while
[KIN Two Software Development] Kinuser1:
Okay so I exported my contacts from my old KIN to my computer, named the file contacts.cellebrite.xml. Uploaded to phone, rebooted, and clicked the import button. ITS TAKING FOREVER

Do the numbers in the file have to bespaced out
[KIN Two Software Development] Antonpup:
ugh.. stoopid me. nvm.
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
took a long time for me anyway. ps: remember that i said that it was unstable and not tested with real contacts, as i dont have any.

That's a problem when you dont use the Kin to as a phone per se.

Anyway as you didnt make the ftp thing, i supose, it confirms my idea of kin (at least PROGRAMNITT) parses the files from the storage at booting. This idea also gets a bit of strength from the fact of theme changing requiring reboot (kinda pffffffff imo).

So, if it parses other files (maybe apps), there's a hole in the system.. if not... we are just stuck at what kino does, use kin as a usb memory.

Or other's hacking success, i meant.

EDIT: a sylverlight app didnt work (oh surprise huh!)
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
i'm getting a bit tired of getting things ready to test (to 'hack') and then failing, so i guess that i will just keep upgrading kino for bugfixes and improvements whenever i got free time.

I plan to pass mp3 and mp4 through special dlls before upload to recover their inner tags, so they are not based on filename. Also, i want to order the filenames by... name, despite the order that kin gives now (like kin0.0.1 shows).

I dunno if i should recode it in the inner part, as it's becaming a bit complex, before releasing the sourcecode for interested people.

btw, i would pay for removal /change of the ****ing splash of weirdo guys and gals... pi**es me a little.. dunno why.
[KIN Two Software Development] klamation:
hey John, did you write the driver that you included for use with KinO? Or was that some generic driver? I remember seeing some other drivers for use with the phone (e.g. the one for bitpim access) and wonder if any of them would work and maybe provide access to other sections of the file system..?
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
hey!. No it wasnt me. That's made almost automatically using tools from libusb-win32 (kind of wizards tools) but i passed the steps of selecting the device and just zipped the result driver. as i said, it's just a bridge to the libs (marvelous in the end).

I snif..*cough* had a peek of what usb-happens with the other device drivers and can, again using libusb do what bitpim does in some cases, buuuuuut i dont have a qualcomm command guide/specification to do things, cause mtp specification was veeeeeeeeery well documented. Well.. if you dont take in account that it doesnt include device specific commands like the one enabling syncing (has no name... no nameeee).

I guess that Qualcomm doesnt want other tools to do its job.

not right just now. I found a 575 pages qualcomm guide on the internet underground........ wonderful.

In any case, kino wont use this, the premise is to sync. this, if weird operation or hacking for us, is out of reach of it. Also, cant giveaway the date(it's stated on first page... rofl)
[KIN Two Software Development] awesome71717:
John, what wizard(s) did you use to create the driver? I would love to get this working on the ZuneHD, but it seems that kino I locked down to the Kin. What does the software check to see if the device is connected?

I tried the "kin" driver with the zuneHD and Kino did not recognize it.
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
Hey, that's a nice point (a mega syncing toool rofl). You need to download libusb-win32 from sourceforge and run "inf-wizard" from the "bin" subfolder. For that point, it's just a standard wizard, selecting your device.

Btw, kino looks for a specific vid (0x45e) and pid (0x641) which is the unique hardware pair for the kin two (and twoM). Also, locks to specific storage id (0x00010001) which is only available on the kin.

To get it working for other devices, i would need a lot of info and crossing fingers so the zune enable write/syncing has the same operation code for it.

Lot of info means: a dump of mtp-detect command within a linux machine where mtp-tools were installed.

In some near future, i could move the vid,pid, and storage to a config file, so they could be changed without coding. That doesn't asure it to work, of course.

To make that work for sure i would need a real device, and I'm not in the mood to buy one (rofl). couldn't promise more than moving the movement of the values atm.
[KIN Two Software Development] awesome71717:
I have the HD and I'd easily be able to install mtp-tools in my ubuntu (not my favorite flavor of linux, but good...) install.

I haven't had time to look at the vid or pid values, but that's not much of a hassle. How did you find out the value of the storage id? (I presume mtp-tools will provide that one...)

I myself only have knowledge of Java, but I would be able to modify your source to be hard coded to the zune's hardware. I like your external config idea, but I don't like file i/o handling (at least the way java does it, although just reading quite simple).

Would you be willing to analyze a dump for the HD if kino can't handle it? I don't think it would be much of a variation from the kin.
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
Yup, that's right. I real mtp program would detect it though the "GetStorageInfo" operation but as kin has only one... so i skipped that process.

Not neccesary hehehe, c# provide a very easy way to read from config files, not much change neccesary. If storage has the same id, we will need 2 changes in the source haha.

Maybe hehehe. i would cross my fingers so it works just changing that "constant" values.
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
Thanks for the log. i will try to update the kino to external config or harcode the id's for ya.

Will take a little more than expected, cause i was in pc maintenance and some goes pretty bad (laptop hd is half dead sometimes). Luckily I backuped all kin related stuff, including KinO in an external device first ;).
[KIN Two Software Development] KBHomes:
Hate to sound like a downer but I can almost guarantee that it will not work.

The Zune has a proprietary authentication protocol (MTPZ) that is completed before the actual interesting data (like the songs themselves) are able to be accessed via regular MTP. Peeking at your source, and the fact that you never mentioned MTPZ or encryption/authentication leads me to believe that KinO doesn't have any code to duplicate this authentication.

Meaning simply changing the vendor and product ID's will not give any more access to the Zune than any simple MTP software currently does.

If you did actually figure out the MTPZ protocol and I simply missed it in your source, then I apologize.
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
I suggest you to read the forum carefully when posting in a long thread, specially when mtp transfering was achieved in the kin itself (which is basically a Zunehd with less hd and phone functions added).

That's a fact, and achieved success with the kin using a propietary extension operation from MTP, which is specified on MTPz. It has been written about 800 times by myself, and also talked about the crypto involved in zune (which is the handshake you describe, and not needed to transfer).

Furthermore, it's curious to see that you found things on the source, when source wasnt published .

Anyway, zune is not on the target devices, but could be tried anyway.
[KIN Two Software Development] KBHomes:
The Kin must be different than the Zunes, based on the outline you put for communication between the Kin and the PC. It was something like EnableRead, OpenSession, ..., CloseSession? Is that what the Zune software sends to the Kin?

If so, that's fundamentally different than what it sends to Zunes, the key MTP commands for that being OpenSession, GetDeviceInfo, EndTrustedAppSession, SendWMDRMPDAppRequest, GetWMDRMPDAppResponse, SendWMDRMPDAppRequest, and the rest of the regular MTP commands.

I noticed that in some post you had mentioned analyzing the Zune Software's cryptography, or bypassing it. I'm certain that the only way to get access to the Zune is to simulate the Zune Software (and therefore its authentication protocol). And as such, modifying KinO's target vendor/product ID's won't be sufficient.

And I took ILSpy to your binary in order to peek at the 'source'. Pretty useful utility.
[KIN Two Software Development] awesome71717:
I know that I myself my be a bit out of the loop sometimes, but people should at least know that these two devices have the same tegra chipset. Both are held to the same mtpz standards as they are usable with the zune software and the windows phone connector for mac.

I am ready when you are Mr. Kussack, I hope all is well with your computer problems.
[KIN Two Software Development] KBHomes:
Well if the communications between the Kin and the PC that he captured (that he put forward here), then they are certainly not held to the same standard.

He says that the protocol for communication between the Kin and the PC is as follows:

- Plug the device

- Device <-> OS Handshake (Interrupt/Bulk transfers possible)

- Kin media sync queries (Interrupt transfers)

- Kin media write/read enable (Interrupt transfers)

- Kin media MTP Open session (Bulk transfer)

- Kin media MTP GetStorageInfo (Bulk transfer)

- ... regular MTP commands

Note that at the very least, OpenSession and GetStorageInfo are part of the standard MTP protocol.

On the other hand, this is the Zune's communication:

- PTP_OC_OpenSession

- PTP_OC_GetDeviceInfo

- PTP_OC_GetStorageInfo

- PTP_OC_MTP_WMDRMPD_EndTrustedAppSession

- PTP_OC_MTP_WMDRMPD_SendWMDRMPDAppRequest

- PTP_OC_MTP_WMDRMPD_GetWMDRMPDAppResponse

- PTP_OC_MTP_WMDRMPD_SendWMDRMPDAppRequest

- ... regular MTP commands.

Fundamentally different.
[KIN Two Software Development] awesome71717:
Regardless of the differences, the fact that they are both able to utilize the OS X windows phone connector means that unauthorized transfers are completely possible.

Another USB sniff may be required, but if the application for the mac executes the mtpz protocol in a simple matter it would be silly for microsoft to change it for an almost identical device.
[KIN Two Software Development] KBHomes:
I think the problem here is that you're assuming that the OS X application is proceeding without authentication. This is not true. It follows the same procedures that the Zune Software does.

The Zune Software uses cryptography and what not for the Zune devices.

The Windows Phone 7 Connector uses cryptography and what not for the Zune devices.

The Zune Software uses a simple command for the Kin devices.

The Windows Phone 7 Connector uses a simple command for the Kin devices.
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
Please take a full research before going here stating things which are not true.

OSX media sync DOES NOT SUPPORT DRM. DOES NOT!. So we captured the traffic and reemulated the operations. There is absolutely no DRM handshaking.

http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/kin-media-sync-for-mac-users-provided-by-mark-space

Why the hell would i describe how to to use a vm, get osx, capture traffic, research it, and then test, if i could have the same process on Zune @ windows?

We do not emulate the Zune software syncing, just Kin media sync. As i stated that i wont support drm nor reverse cryptography for the Zune software.

Also, i stated without having a working phone that the process *could be*

And "closed" that thread as it was later (shown on captured logs):

And btw, MTP is just PTP compatible (even if i didnt care about doing so).

If we make it work on the zune HD it's ok, but for the kin, that's not a goal, it is a fact. The only not so good thing is not handling mtp errors on my part if any command makes its work wrongly.

... sigh.
[KIN Two Software Development] KBHomes:
Ok fine, I'll be honest that I have little idea how the Kin works, and I haven't researched that besides looking at your one thread. Also, the OS X application I'm talking about in my previous post is not Kin Media Sync, but rather the Windows Phone 7 Connector, that awesome71717 mentioned.

That being said, I do know how the Zune works with the Windows Phone 7 Connector application and that does use cryptography. My point simply is that you won't be able to simply change the target product and vendor ID's and hope it will work for the Zune devices.

Yes, I know MTP is an extension of PTP, but that doesn't seem relevant at all.
[KIN Two Software Development] Heratiki:
JK man I really can't tell you how excited I am about this piece of software. Can't wait to see what people do with it.
[KIN Two Software Development] Kinuser1:
John, trick zne into thinking the phone is a WP7 phone, then you can install apps, well atleast try to
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
Not tricking zune. Even if i was able to (who knows), i wont mess with its cryptography. Not a field where i want to.

The way to try would be what i said, with xna mtp commands tests.
[KIN Two Software Development] zero2duo:
Just an observation about KinO that I noticed. When transferring over an avi video file, KinO will successfully transfer it and you will see it in the folder structure, however, the video does not show up on the phone. I even tried turning the phone off and back on but still the avi file does not appear on the phone. On the other hand mp4 files are fine.

When I had Zune installed (before installing KinO), I transferred both avi and mp4 files, and the avi files appeared on the phone.

Guess I'll have Zune installed on one machine (this way I can move avi files over and have my music show up nicely (album art, artist name, song name) and also have my avi videos) and then have KinO on another machine.

Update: I renamed the extension from avi to mp4 and transferred it over to the phone. Then when I pressed play, it didn't work, said something like "item is missing".
[KIN Two Software Development] klamation:
When you upload the file through the Zune software, is the file name the same as when you uploaded it through KinO? What about the contents of the file?

Honestly, I didn't realise the Zune supports AVI files. If anything, I think Zune will convert it to a format the Kin will play.
[KIN Two Software Development] zero2duo:
For mp3, ex: 13-jacks_mannequin-la_la_lie.mp3

KinO: the song shows up as how the file is name

Zune: we see album art, the metadata is intact, if you sort by Album, Genre, Artists, it is all correct.

John already said KinO is limited, and adding metadata capabilities would be something he would like to add if he had time.

Don't know if it converts it to another format (like mp4), but you can just take an avi file and drag it over with Zune and the Kin will play it. If I had a avi file "01.Pilot.avi", even if I used Zune to move it over to the phone, using KinO, I see the file extension still as avi.

FYI, the two mp4 videos i copied over, they too seem to have metadata, cause when I view my list of videos, I see a screenshot/jpeg/album art of the mp4 videos...the avi video does not have this. If I have time later tonight, I will can post a pic if it's unclear what I am describing.
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
I told you. It was:

Mp3

Mp4

Jpg

Wmv/wma

Everything else falls into "binary type" so you can upload anything. As you dont seem to know how it works, you have to tell kino what you'r going to upload before doing it:

As is not on the "known" extensions, it falls back to the binary option, and labeling as it on the kin.

So when zune goes looking for type "foo", "binary files" is not "=" to "foo" (aka "foo"!="binaryfiles").

Also, files on the computer have metadata, which is read by zune and presend before the file, so the kin can get you a place or say "nono, don't want" before uploading the file.

It's like:

- Can i upload a mp3 file with size 33mb and name "Lameiamsopro.mp3" and songname "lameiamsopro"?

- Yep, i will call it 3900037 under storage 01000100. Send the content plzzz.

I said i was going to code that, using mediacoder's library which can access this things pretty well, and make it auto. What i'm not sure about is the album art. never dealed with this.

Soooo if you take my mtp info from the opensource interest thread, you can see:

If you figure out what's avi, i will happily add it as a extension filter on the gui and match it to its type instead "general binary file".

I know.. it's kinda weird to see (for me it's "meh") but the name is just a propery of an object. kin saves them in mtp object format, so its a tree of objects. some files, some folders and it just depend of the "type" property of the file. So you could call a folder "lame.jpg" and still be a folder if pre-uploaded as that. weeeird but understandable.
[KIN Two Software Development] zero2duo:
John,

You're right, I don't know what's going on, just trying whate you and others suggest. I assume to get the AVI file, I will need to follow the steps in the "reversing kin theory: thread? Where I will need Snow Leopard, VMWare, and a USB sniffer?
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
No, that time passed by.

You could connect it to a virtual/real linux machine with mtp-tools installed and do:

mtp-files

which will show you a list of the files and the filetype.

From the magical internet (omgz gr8t) seems to be "MS Avi", labeled 0x300a, but that doesnt seem to be among the ones supported by the device.

Alternatively, you can do a zune avi upload and see with kino if it has the same extension and that things, so it wasnt converted on-the-fly to wmv.

Anyway, i'll try it when i'm in the mood :D.
[KIN Two Software Development] zero2duo:
Uploaded an avi file (pilot.avi) using Zune with laptop, then connected Kin with KinO on desktop, and saw it is now a wmv file (pilot.wmv), just like you thought. So Zune converts avi files to wmv (maybe even other video files as well).
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
great, i just imagined that situation regarding what was supported.

unfortunately, i wont support conversion. that's further than the things i want to dev for the kin hehehe.
[KIN Two Software Development] derailius:
First, outstanding job! and Thanks! I do have a question, when I try to upload a standard jpg file to the KIN I can't view it from the phone. I thought I read that jpg was a supported format? It just uploads it directly to the root folder.
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
Yes, it was and still is. I uploaded vids and pics succesfully.

Dunno what causes your trouble, as i checked the extensions in KinO. Recheck if the extension is OK, as it could be a wrongly named file. The location inside the kin doesnt matter for it to read the files.
[KIN Two Software Development] derailius:
Okay, I know what i did wrong, it does infact work, I just had to view the albums by date. thanks!
[KIN Two Software Development] mo.ss:
where is download link for mac?

...i spend too much time on this phone...
[KIN Two Software Development] X-15D9W8491:
awesome

nice! make sure to tell me when u get deeper into the filesystem. i have an idea but its gonna take some serious stuff to get it done and i need something better than bitpim to work with.
[KIN Two Software Development] klamation:
You mean, Mark/Space software? www.markspace.com/kin/
[KIN Two Software Development] mo.ss:
naw, for kinO
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
if you dont see the link and how to get on the mac in the 1st post, you probably wont be able to operate with it.
[KIN Two Software Development] SchwassKIN:
KINO and contacts

So I’ve been working with KINO which is awesome BTW. I’ve been attempting to backup and restore contacts. Here is what I have discovered:

I have exported the contacts file, and then used that format to upload a few more contacts.

I got the cellebrite.contacts.xml to work when I added 2 contacts, then I attempted to use the XML for all my contacts I believe there were 148 of them.

When I try to use the big list I get an error saying that XML file is the wrong format. I know it’s the correct format.

So this is what I did last night:

Put all of the contacts in by hand

Exported them

Renamed the file to cellebrite.contacts.xml (because that is the filename that worked with only 2 contacts)

Uploaded them to the KIN

Hit the import button and I get the same error????

I have a guess and I’m hoping John can tell me the answer to;

Does the cellebrite.contacts.xml have to have all “NEW” contacts in it? I don’t want to wipe my phone since this is my primary cell. I’ve read this whole forum and I still cant figure out this contacts business.

Also has anyone been able to find a copy of the cellebrite software that Verizon uses to import the contacts from your old device?
[KIN Two Software Development] zero2duo:
SchwassKIN,

From my exporting/importing contacts experience, you can always export the contacts.xml file fine, however there appears to be a rule for importing contacts:

1. Make sure all contacts have a value (it can be a single letter/character) for the LAST NAME tag. The LAST NAME tag cannot be blank.

Normally, people don't put a contact's last name down (I only do when I have friends with the same first name). However, once you edit your contacts.xml file and make sure all 148 contacts do not have the LAST NAME field blank, then the import should work.
[KIN Two Software Development] johnkussack:
this.

regarding to your last question, the software was available for me (i think someone on the forums posted a link) and was sooo dependant on the machine that it just doesnt work without it. Not going to spend 500$ (or more) on it :P.