yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Thunderbolt General] snicklet:
CLNR and Certified pre-owned....much like a "prerooted" phone. Once you unroot the phone you would never know that it was rooted previously. So if you got one as a replacement and didn't know that it was a CLNR or pre-owned then you would be happy thinking it was brand new. So if it looks brand new and acts brand new who is to say that it's not brand new.
[Thunderbolt General] topaz330:
ok they give you a new phone but since we think this is a radio problem isn't it basically useless since you'll probably have the same problem with the new phone?
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
It probably is useless. But there's no way to know for sure. In my case my phone isn't rebooting its just shutting off on its own. Isn't the radio reboot issue just a theory? I know its gotta be from the latest ota, seeing how it only started afterwards. Also my power button is messed up. So its a win win in my case.
[Thunderbolt General] ERIFNOMI:
Not sure if you're saying that as long as it seems brand new then that's good enough or if you're saying they are brand new. They're not. Have you ever gotten a replacement phone. They come in a box that states Certified Like-New.
[Thunderbolt General] turbosrrgood:
I am certainly not going to rule out multiple problems related to this, but I was suffering from random reboots and when I switched to the .7 CDMA and .6 LTE radio combo, my reboots completely disappeared. It seems likely that VZ/HTC were shipping phones that had radio issues, and not all people read these forums where that can be easily remedied (after all, if you aren't rooted you can't fix it. Meaning VZ has to replace the phone).

Sure there could be other problems, but changing the radio weeks ago fixed it for me, not a single reboot since (thanks xda devs).

People will complain, and I don't blame them. When you pay a lot of money for a device you want it to work. Having said that, by buying a TB you basically volunteered to be a guinea pig for the new VZ 3g/LTE network combo. The associated troubles come with it. One of the main reasons why we get unlimited data and free tethering (for now).
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
I'm not in a 4G area, I am using cdma auto prl. I just got my replacement in the mail, looks like new. The device is in better shape than mine (power button). So I guess ill find out if its the radio or the device itself. Even though I'm 99.9% sure its the radio. I have five days to send the other one back so I will be doing a lot of experimenting on the old one.
[Thunderbolt General] snicklet:
I was just making a statement that if you got a replacement and it didn't have any details on it stating certified like-new and it had no marks or scratches and it appeared pristine and worked fine and went through some quality control process that showed it to be in perfect working order then it would be "new" for all that a person would know. So ultimately, if a person didn't know any better they would believe it to be a new phone and wouldn't think twice about it.

I don't know if a refurb would be of any less quality than a brand new one as long as it wasn't gutted and repaired by a technician previously and that it was completely intact and had no markings on it.

Just a comment on my part.....but what do I know.
[Thunderbolt General] jmz768:
I called Verizon yesterday after finally being fed up with my phone rebooting numerous times today. They told me to do a factory reset and if the problems continued, they would send a replacement. As expected, they continued so I called back today and should have a replacement tomorrow.

The fact that they're willing to replace phones must mean that they have no idea that it's the recent update that's causing the problems. I'm just hoping that the replacement shows up not having already had the update applied.
[Thunderbolt General] headcheese:
they have to know its the update...

i wonder if it isnt location/signal based. i am on the first leaked radio 605.7 near minneapolis on 4g 99% of the time and have never had a random reboot. knock on wood.
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
I have been using the leaked gb Rom and radio for over 24 hours without my phone shutting off/rebooting. I'm not going to stay on it though because some of the camera issues(I have a 2 year old). Also battery was better on latest bamf for me. Anyways I still haven't used my replacent because I wanted to see if i'd get reboots on this radio. But tonight I plan on it.
[Thunderbolt General] Addicted2Droid:
What good does a factory reboot do? I could be wromg but a message says it will NOT remove current system software...to me that means it won't revert back to the pre update status. Am I reading that wrong?

Sent from my not a dream phone anymore cuz its my phone, phone
[Thunderbolt General] Addicted2Droid:
Oh and today the random reboots have started for me. Not happy with that. Not sure what a new phone will do if it ends up with the same update. All I know is since the update my phone performance tanked. I should have went with my gut and rejected the update

Sent from my not a dream phone anymore cuz its my phone, phone
[Thunderbolt General] ERIFNOMI:
Rules out rouge app/settings.
[Thunderbolt General] nerozehl:
If it is a software issue, and it seems to be, then getting a new phone would be useless. I would just stick with the brand new phone I got and wait it out.
[Thunderbolt General] micompcs:
If you truley are a VZW employee, then my resources are the same as yours. The phones are not refurbished in the traditional sense. In order for a phone to qualify as a CLNR it must pass a 100+ point quality check in 10 separate categories. The only reconditioning the phones go through are cosmetic. CPOs, however, go through a full device refurbishment. Hardware, as well as software, are reconditioned, and CPOs are subject to cosmetic defects. Scratches, nicks, things that are not approved for CLNR can be present with CPO devices.

Regardless, CLNRs and CPOs are both of the highest quality possible, and can provide a great alternative when an upgrade is not available.

Sent from my HTC RootedBolt running CM-7.0.
[Thunderbolt General] snicklet:
That was the point I was trying to make. A CLNR would be difficult to distinguish from brand new. And for all practical purposes is brand new. Just like a previously rooted phone that was returned to stock is for all practical purposes a stock phone in which you would never know that it had been rooted unless you had direct knowledge that it was previously rooted.
[Thunderbolt General] Addicted2Droid:
Wow that was fun. I called VZW tech support they had me do a factory reset. Once I reset I was stuck on 1x. Couldn't get 3 or 4G. Tech couldn't figure it out...he sending me a new phone. 30 seconds after I realized my battery cover was off and put it back on....4G was restored so basically a new phone is coming tomorrow. I'm to refuse it. He did say something that made sense. The update may not have installed properly the first time especially if it was interrupted by something. I remember something happening the first time so maybe that was the case for me. I guess I will find out tomorrow if my phone starts rebooting again. So far so good.

But anyway, does the battery cover actually do anything for service or was that just pure coincidence.
[Thunderbolt General] micompcs:
I've never personally heard of such a thing. I pulled my battery back off just now and nothing changed. I'd keep an eye on it though. If it happens again just accept the clnr.

Sent from my HTC RootedBolt running CM-7.0.
[Thunderbolt General] ERIFNOMI:
Some of the antennae are in the battery cover.
[Thunderbolt General] iOSh8er:
I have a very slight scratch on my screen and a crack in the plastic from dropping my phone. Will this physical damage prevent me from getting a replacement for the random reboots?
[Thunderbolt General] micompcs:
Probably not. Although, depending on the Rep, it may, considering it is physical damage. It may also depend on how significant the crack is.

Sent from my HTC RootedBolt running CM-7.0.
[Thunderbolt General] iOSh8er:
The average person would not even notice either defect. I would not have noticed the crack if I didnt inspect it after the drop. Im thinking about removing root and having the device replaced for free due to the reboot issue.
[Thunderbolt General] phatal:
Received my replacement phone today (requested due to the random reboots and service loss/lock-ups - after installing the update). The replacement did not have the OTA update on it. Against my better judgement I did allow the OTA update to install and so far it is working perfectly. No lock-ups, no reboots - just a working phone again.
[Thunderbolt General] Addicted2Droid:
Do you have to send back your old phone when the new one arrives?
[Thunderbolt General] ProTekk:
Yes. Any reason why they'd let you keep a $750+ "defective" device?
[Thunderbolt General] TheStick13:
Lol, because they're generous? .....oh, wait.
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
They give you five days to send it back.
[Thunderbolt General] funkybside:
Might consider doing the swap. I ran since launch day without any random reboots. Installed the OTA last thursday and have seen two so far. Both times occured while running Pandora in my car.

For the record I am stock unrooted. Just was putting it off, nothing against rooting.
[Thunderbolt General] spac3m0nk3y:
I'm stock, but rooted. I've had my phone since about a week after launch. I have never had any problems with camcorder sound issues, GPS or any other of the problems that people have mentioned. After I flashed the OTA, my phone ran fine, it didn't seem any faster, no GPS improvements, or signal improvements. There was no change in my phone at all, but the version numbers. It didn't really bother me. I was all happy.

I told you all that to set the stage that my phone has been running perfect. Then last night, I got a random reboot... this can happen to any phone at any time. Most likely it is happening to other phones, or will happen, but the owner hasn't noticed. Check your uptime.
[Thunderbolt General] lexxon87:
I'm somewhat the opposite of what you guys have been seeing--I got 2-3 reboots while stock unrooted when the phone was new, got a lot more while tinkering around with BAMF 1.4-1.5 and the LeanKernel (had nothing but bad luck with that one), but I've since been on BAMF 1.6.2 and the included kernel and I haven't had a reboot in probably 2 weeks, and had some very solid 4G connectivity in Boston over the weekend. I'm also newly on the extended battery but the phone was stable prior to that, just not good on battery life as is the norm.

At least in my case it seems to have been completely software-based. I know Verizon's initial fix for the reboots was to factory reset the phone, so while I'm sure a few of the problems are hardware, most of them are software-based I'd bet. LTE, or at least the radio in this phone, seems to be a little unstable in software form. Any reports of similar issues with the Charge?
[Thunderbolt General] Xpiatio:
Can I just go to a local verizon owned store and get it replaced, cause this is not right. My phone has restarted 6 oh wait. . . 7 times this morning alone. Im still running stock.
[Thunderbolt General] bunklung:
Verizon has acknowledged the rebooting problem and is working with HTC:

http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-verizon-working-thunderbolt-reboots
[Thunderbolt General] phatal:
Only if you're within the 14 day return window. They don't typically deal with warranty exchanges - but if you get a good store manager that is willing to work with you then maybe. I, unfortunately, was told I had to call tech support and get a replacement that way. Not a huge deal as it was shipped next-day.
[Thunderbolt General] Xpiatio:
Just got back from the stores. The guy there said that they missed an item in the last its. Also said there are coming with another update soon. Didn't state when but he said it won't be 3 to 4 months but will be sooner
[Thunderbolt General] Busphan:
I just received my replacement for this issue (I also had the phone randomly shutdown) and it was defective. Well, maybe not defective but the screen wasn't seated and would move down once touch. So I boxed it back up and I'm sending it back. I probably should just keep my original.
[Thunderbolt General] micompcs:
You are one of the unfortunately that this happens to. To keep your phone simply send it back. Whatever you do don't activate it. If you activate it you will have to send the new defective one back after you receive a new replacement. You'll be stuck with the new one until then.

Sent from my HTC RootedBolt running CM-7.0.
[Thunderbolt General] Busphan:
Oh yeah, I never activated it. I just put it back in the box. I'm debating whether I should get another replacement or just stick with the one I have.
[Thunderbolt General] dbow32:
Ok, last night I read through this thread. I went to my "software update" section on my settings to check to see if there was an update. Well there was one and I proceeded with it. I got a feeling that I shouldn't be doing this but went ahead with it anyway. I want you to know that I have had my TB for about 11 days with no random rebooting. So when it finished updating I turned the phone off and went to bed. This morning I turned it on and went to work. Once I got there (as I was listening to Sirius as I do every day all day) It rebooted. After it finished and came back up I went back to listening to the radio and working. Once again it rebooted. After about the third time I knew that I should have listened to that little voice in my head telling me that it was a bad idea. When I talked to the tech at Ver. he told me that he had not heard of any issues but that he himself had a TB and was very interested in the issue. He told me that he would call HTC directly and try to get more info on this. He also did some research online and found that there are other people having this as well. When he called me back he said that he told everyone he could that there is something going on but that they didn't know when they would push out another update to fix the problem. His only method to fix the issue was to do a "Factory Reset". I told him that I would monitor the phone as the day went on and as a last resort go ahead and do the FR. Well I just got done doing it and setting everything up again and not 10 minutes after it rebooted again. So I called Ver. back and they said that at this point, since I've only had the phone for 11 days that I was eligible to walk into any store and exchange it for a brand new one. So that is what I will be doing tonight. I guess the good news is that they are becoming aware of the issue and I'm sure HTC will be pushing an update out soon. He also explained that when they do these updates they do them in smaller sections of the US so that if something like this happens they don't effect everyone. He said he check his TB and there was no update available. Man that's a lot of $$ they are losing having to exchange phones but at least they are willing to step up and address the problem. So if anyone is reading this thread and looks to see if they can update... I would highly recommend waiting to see if they have fixed it.
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
Ive been using my replacement the ota radio for about 8 hours now without a reboot. Im sure it'll happen again though. On my old one it'd go a day or two without shutting off, so I'm not counting on it. Hopefully we will see another update soon. It's very irritating.

Sent from my Thunderbolt
[Thunderbolt General] ProTekk:
Finally got them to check XDA and Android Central and the rep said "wow" lol Needless to say, new TB is inbound! Finally!
[Thunderbolt General] vegasjones:
Just curious, so this is happening to you guys who have rooted too? I've had the TB rooted since the day I got it, went back to stock and even re-rooted with the new OTA release and I haven't had one reboot. I've got a ridiculous amount of connection issues. But maybe I'm one of the lucky ones who isn't getting the reboots.
[Thunderbolt General] Dark Lazer:
My phone has rebooted with certain roms but ever since having the virus rom I havent had a single reboot.
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
My replacement phone sucks ass. Volume keys are F****D! Finally got the reboot I was waiting for, well just shut off. This time though I had to pull battery to boot it back up. I thankfully still have the original phone which I much rather use. What a big pain in the ass all the rooting, unrooting ****. Im calling verizon tomorrow to see what to do next. Im just gonna suggest to everyone to not even bother unless your phone is in crap shape to begin with. Its not your device, its the radio or something involved in the update. Just wait for a fix.
[Thunderbolt General] Addicted2Droid:
Since doing the factory reboot my phone has been much better. Battery level better than ever one full day without reboot. Fingers are crossed that it stays this way
[Thunderbolt General] dbow32:
So I went in to the Verizon store and they swapped my phone for a brand new one. I'm still setting things up but so far so good.
[Thunderbolt General] bunklung:
This guy here has a *replacement* phone that is rebooting.

Are there any more replacement phones that are also rebooting (that have the latest OTA)?
[Thunderbolt General] chunjaenim:
First shutdown...

Ok.... I read many threads about phone rebooting itself... and I always thought, 'man, i'm lucky'... then I looked at my phone and it was restarting... WTF...

First time happening.....

and I didn't even do the OTA update yet...
[Thunderbolt General] dbow32:
When I talked to the Verizon tech he basically told me that when you get a refurbished/reconditioned phone they flash it (with the latest and greatest). So his replacement will be no different than the original. I was fortunate because I was within the 14 day period that I could walk in and get a brand new phone. So you're better off holding onto your phone and pray that they push a fix very soon.
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
Actually when i received the phone it didnt have the May 12th OTA. I had to update it.
[Thunderbolt General] dbow32:
I just noticed that my new phone has an unrelated issue. I went to plug in a usb/comp. connection and it won't connect to the computer. It just acts like it's a regular connection. Does anyone know why this would happen? The settings are set to "ask me" on the connection type but it won't show up. any idea's?
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
Ok. Here we go again, just talked to another tech and their replacing my replacement lol. I complained that the volume keys were sticking, also more reboots. I told him this would be the last time i try a replacement unless the hardware isnt up to grade, I said the next one will probably reboot too. He said its only happening to a small amount of people, the majority arent having the issue.

So if thats true it leads me to believe maybe certain areas/signal quality are having problems. It doesnt seem like a hardware problem to me. Especially since it didnt start happening until the last update.
[Thunderbolt General] bunklung:
Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.
[Thunderbolt General] phatal:
Same here. My replacement phone needed to have the OTA update applied by me. Still working fine - no reboots.
[Thunderbolt General] clintb:
I have a totally stock TB, no root and only a few apps added, Google Voice being one. Bought it around May 14th in St Louis, did all the updates and a factory reset just for good measure. Not a single reboot.

I'm now in Kansas City, MO which has no 4G. No reboots the first day, and I drive a fair amount for work, so that essentially eliminates it being an "all towers" type of situation. Anyway, no reboot until I get to a customer's house and two in a 10 min time span. None after that since I've moved on.
[Thunderbolt General] astang99:
It's started to reboot like crazy today...
[Thunderbolt General] mschwartz26:
Same problem. Talked with Verizon and have a replacement phone coming. I did confirm its not a new phone, but a certified like new phone.
[Thunderbolt General] ece4free:
I had a ridiculous amounts of reboots yesterday as well. Right when I got home from work (when they usually occur) I have about an hour where my phone rebooted itself 5 or 6 times. It would do it repeatedly, one after the other. Eventually I did a battery pull and have not had a reboot since then.

/fingers crossed
[Thunderbolt General] shawncrobbins:
I was getting random reboots as well. I switched radios and have had none since. I have no 4g in my area.
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
Ok just got my second replacement, the good news is the hardware is perfect no f'ed up buttons. Haven't turned it on yet though. I'm messing around with the new bamf to see if I wanna use it as a dd first.
[Thunderbolt General] Busphan:
I hope I have the same luck as you with my second replacement. By the way, how do you like that new bamf?
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
Its pretty sweet. Its only gonna get better. Once we see a more complete gb leak it will be awesome i'm sure. I think i'm gonna stick with it.
[Thunderbolt General] doitall76:
Maybe it is the OTA

Has anyone tried to keep the replacement phone on the old software, without accepting the update? All of my reboots have come since the OTA update.

They are sending me out an update, and if it is on the old software, I am going to keep it that way, and keep declining the update.

Doitall76
[Thunderbolt General] nepperz:
I have had no luck with this.. told its a known software issue and basically suck it up
[Thunderbolt General] nepperz:
Side note.. I even work at a store :(
[Thunderbolt General] centanni30:
Had the same issue. Verizon sent me a new phone free overnight and it is happening with this one as well. Gotta be the software. I had read that it was a problem with towers in certain areas. Verizon techs won't admit to anything, going to call and see what they say now.
[Thunderbolt General] dadsterflip:
Hey. How long does it take for them to send a text or email saying they got your phone? Fedex tracking says it was there this Wednesday and.its Friday now and still.no email or text confirming they got it?
[Thunderbolt General] googlemyahoo:
I really don't understand why any of you are exchanging your phones....it's apparent that there's no fix for this issue yet, so all of the phones are going to have the same issues at one point or another....duh.

My poor phone rebooted probably 5 times from 6pm to 10:30pm last night. It was very seldomly doing it before that...
[Thunderbolt General] ProTekk:
New phone. Total of 26 reboots within 24 hours. Sweet.
[Thunderbolt General] googlemyahoo:
My point exactly
[Thunderbolt General] Headshots4life:
My phone only reboots maybe once every couple of days, I'm ALWAYS on my phone so I'd notice if it rebooted a lot. It's not a big issue for me thankfully so I see no need to get it replaced. Hopefully the issue can be fixed soon because it seems that a lot of you have it worse off with crazy amounts of reboots, I would be pulling my hair out by now.
[Thunderbolt General] magicriggs:
I'm not getting any reboots at all and I've flashed every radio under the sun. I rather keep my new phone then get a referb. Thats what you'll get when they send you out one.
[Thunderbolt General] dadsterflip:
Anyone ever have problems returning little nics but not noticeable and didn't get charged for retail? How does it take for them to send in a text message saying they recieved your device? Its been 3 days now.
[Thunderbolt General] mike.s:
They can't charge you, it's warranty, and their choice to send you a refurb instead of fixing yours.
[Thunderbolt General] dadsterflip:
Cool. Cause I was starting tto wonder why its taking them a long time to send me a text saying they've received it. On my other warranty on previous phone I got a notification within 2 days etc. But thx for the response.
[Thunderbolt General] ajd88:
I had my first reboot today with my second replacement. Couldn't have happened at a worse time. I was on the highway using navigation and it cost me about half an hour of my time lol. I'm all done with this replacement business. I'm just gonna wait and see what the next update brings.