yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S II General] Catnap:
My question to you guys, as you clearly know a lot more than I do about the issue:

If I am to get an SGS2, with good ears and stock or equivalent earbuds, am I likely to hear the CPU/EDGE interference noted in supercurio's Anandtech-posted review? At the moment it's a choice between the SGS2 and the Sensation- Sensation has issues with dust under the screen, and the SGS2 has this. If it's not really an issue and you can't hear it unless you've got decent cans/buds then I guess the decision's easier.

Cheers!
[Galaxy S II General] MPKO:
Forget this nonsense of hearing interference of baseband when lisening music because what ever phone u use you will hear it in one point when you r in area where your phone is needed to use full power to adapt to radio enviorement. There is NO phone at the moment which is so well done/isolated that you would not hear sometimes something strange.

I truly believe also supercurio can do his stuff, but please people, things are not always so black and white. For example, it can be that when supercurio did his test where he notice some noise introduced by the baseband, it can be that coverage area where he did it is so bad that the effect was seen.

There is testing and... testing and people who are doing these tests should define the test specification a bit more detail to the audience so that there is no need for speculations.

Cheers!
[Galaxy S II General] supercurio:
2 examples:

Galaxy S: no CPU noise, little radio noise.

iPhone 3Gs/4: no CPU noise, no radio noise I can recall.

Its anything but nonsense if you use sensitive headphones. I suggest to listen to the recording I made for Anandtech article.

However it's true some other phones have even more CPU/Baseband noise issues than Galaxy S II, but it doesn't excuses Galaxy S II performance in this area.
[Galaxy S II General] MPKO:
My point is that I agree your test if you have done it in such away that enviorement has been exactly same for all of them. Has this been the case?
[Galaxy S II General] supercurio:
Not yet but that's a goal.

So far a lot of infos are in my brain database and not yet written as article with graphs and everything :D
[Galaxy S II General] jj03:
in which case, organise yourself good sir, and assemble the reams of information you have in your head into a coherent and well executed presentation...:-) easier said than done..i know.
[Galaxy S II General] supercurio:
Hehe yes. It just takes a ****load of time to do so, but you'll see more articles on Anandtech on this topic from me ;)
[Galaxy S II General] rhsauer:
First, thanks for taking the time to run these tests. I also agree with the previous poster who said that it's difficult to A/B the difference if you have to reload firmware in between tests. To A/B meaningfully, I find that I have to pull the headset cord from one device, plug it in to the second device and replay the same passage - over and over - in a quiet room.

Having said that, there is, subjectively, a clear improvement in the sound - to my ears at least. Before KI3, I found the sound on this phone so bad I really couldn't be bothered to use it to listen to music. Since loading KI3, although the sound still isn't great - and I certainly wouldn't listen to it for reference - it's perfectly fine for walking around. Enjoyable, actually.

I'm using a European SGSII with KI3 stock and the latest Ninphetamine kernel (2.1.3+). I A/B'ed the KI3 rom and several 2.3.4 roms extensively against an iPhone 4, an older iPod and an LG G2X (with faux's Voodoo enabled kernel and Voodoo sound enabled). Before upgrading to the KI3 rom, the SGSII wasn't close to any of those devices. Now it's in the ballpark, at least.

For my testing, I've been using various headphones, including Westone 4's (which are pretty revealing, and probably overkill for any of these devices), Shure 215's, Klipsch 4i's, Porta-Pro's and B+W p5's.

Is it possible that there's something that may not be picked up by the objective tests that you've run, but results in a marked subjective improvement?
[Galaxy S II General] KaliKot:
In that case HTC has never been known for good sound quality and they're trying to differentiate with the Beats branding nowadays, but Beats has also never been known for sound quality in audio circles.
[Galaxy S II General] supercurio:
Yes, I measured only the signal at line-out level and not with headphones attached.

So there's a possibility a change affects only low impedances and not high impedances output but that's very unlikely − to say the least.

Question:

some people say its the ROM, some people say its the kernel?

so... to conduct a test with headphones attached. What should I compare to what?

About ABX tests:

ABX tests are useful when you know there's a difference and try to evaluate if you're able to hear it or not.

Comparing a phone with another, or a kernel with another invalidates the whole thing if you're aware of what you're listening to. The concept works only if you're blind = no way to know what you're comparing to what.

From the description here I'm not sure the test you were conducting was an ABX test.

Important note:

For somebody who never did any kind of audio measurement, it can be tedious to define a valid testing process.

However, audio is not rocket science and it's extremely easy to measure a difference in the signal if there's one.

For this reason: anybody arguing: "maybe it's the same signal but it doesn't sound the same" => wrong conclusion: means placebo at work.

About placebo, there's no shame experiencing it. It's powerful: even help to cure disease !
[Galaxy S II General] AndreiLux:
Kernel only. I'm still running daily a 2.3.4 build. Just flash the KI3 or KI8 (KI4 is older than both and doesn't have it) kernel and compare it to the previously released one, whatever it was, KI2 I guess, doesn't matter. I've been comparing it to custom kernels since they all have the same quality.

Again, if this is placebo then I'm ready to shoot myself in the foot, cut it off and send it you as a trophy.
[Galaxy S II General] supercurio:
LOL

OK I'll make a quick test with headphones attached later.

Anybody will be able to download the FLAC samples recorded.
[Galaxy S II General] gattari:
I agree totally.

I don't know if it is a placebo effect but now with latest firmware I prefer sgs2 over my iPod touch and cowon d2.

I use sennheiser hd598 and sennheiser Mx 980 with flac files

amplified with ttvj slim and no equalizer.
[Galaxy S II General] nikzDHD:
I do believe kernel only, would be great if you could test cm7 as well and if measurements differ in any way. I'm on cm7 now and find it better than stock but hey that could be a placebo as well lol.
[Galaxy S II General] gattari:
To me, at time, miui rom cwm kernel based don't show same quality as stock based rom and suffer headset half volume issue.
[Galaxy S II General] nikzDHD:
I've experienced that as well stock cm7 player is louder than for example power amp at same volume settings and that's with preamp on poweramp set at highest.

One big thing I noticed is that in call volume is lower than stock and could barely hear is busy areas.
[Galaxy S II General] rhsauer:
Are you saying the sound is independent of the rom - only the kernel matters? FWIW, I noticed the sound improvement while running KI3 and Ninphetamine 2.1.3 - which I don't even think is a KI3 or 8 based kernel - so I'm confused now! I think I'm just going to get my hearing checked tomorrow ;-)
[Galaxy S II General] crypticc:
SNR and power transfer will always be better from low into high impedance. That is why low output impedance is important because it gives you flexibility with phone selection, and vitual for line level output.

p.s. I believe this is also reason high impedance phones can subjectively sound better sometimes depending on the source e.g. if head room in the op amp is low but underlying signal quality okay.

Maybe try an attenuated 'phone back to back?
[Galaxy S II General] madmaximillian:
Oh please, the audio quality on this device is still horrible. Low volume, horrible dynamics. I kinda hate the iphone, but you never have to worry about crap like this when buying one.

Not to mention the volume bugs are still prominent on the sgs2 and they have proven to be unsolvable. Samsung dropped the ball on the audio side and there's really no way to fix it. 6 months of attempts have proven that
[Galaxy S II General] vnvman:
Agreed. My old Desire sounded way crisper and louder, and this is simply shameful.

During two years using android i've been collecting a lot of cons about using this OS. They're still not enough to justify a switch to some other platform, but i'm quite sure that in a year or so i'll be fed up enough with this OEM/Google devs tardness crap to get an iPhone5 (assuming that they'll slap a 4"+ screen on it).
[Galaxy S II General] madmaximillian:
The only thing keeping me from sticking with iphone is the fact that I can sell one and buy a android instead, with about 250$ profit in my hands. But things like dependable audio quality, no yellow tint on my gs2 screen, and volume controls that separate media and calls (DERP android) - these things make me consider sticking with iphone before I got to bed at night.

All this talk about iphone being limited, but it gets it right where it matters and that's all anybody I've met cares about. I love how open android is. I LOVE the google integration. Google maps on android is a complete beast.

But the handsets are always hit and miss in many different areas - and that's the stressful part about getting onboard with android.

The samsung galaxy s2 is the best android yet, but it's got horrible audio, volume bugs, and reasonably widespread lcd yellow tint issue (likely a large batch of lemon lcd panels).

Just google these problems and you'll see (if you don't own a gs2).

Love this phone, but sometimes I want to stop 'putting up' with my device.
[Galaxy S II General] gattari:
I don't know, perhaps I have a special galaxy s2 :-)), my iPod touch 3g don't sound better than my gs2, at all I llittle prefer gs2. And on iPod touch I get audio from line out...

My equipment ttvj slim amplifier and sennheiser HD 598 or mx 980.
[Galaxy S II General] rothshek:
me2. my iPod touch 3g and Iphone4 sound not better than my gs2 with neutron player. headphone is sennheiser IE8:D
[Galaxy S II General] FirstNoobToBrickHisPhone:
Then don't. :)

I've gotten used to the horrid audio quality. And have found ways to make it tolerable with 'DSP Manager' and 'Poweramp'

It's not so bad now.
[Galaxy S II General] jimbiye:
Nobody is forcing you to 'Put up with it'... If you trully feel that way, I just don't get why you stick with it.

I am not defending the phone, but if those issues bother you so much, then go for whatever will work for you.
[Galaxy S II General] sturmeh:
For those interested, I became incredibly sick of the low quality and inability to drive simple earphones decently.

I tried my friends Fiio E11 (~$70) headphone amp and another E5 (~$18), and they both solve the problem to some degree. (They drive the volume to reasonable levels without the noise you usually get from using the software compressors.)

The E11 was a far better solution for high-end headphones (my friend's) but the E5 did just fine with my medium-level earphones, and would probably do an ok job for the higher end stuff.

So an external headphone amp is more than a decent solution for some of the problems faced with the inferior DAC (and lack of amp) in the SGSII.

Personally I am going to buy a Fiio E6 (~$30) and give that a try, it's lighter and smaller than the E5 but outperforms it in almost all manners. (Still not as great as the E11 of course.)

Those are financially sound alternatives to crying about the quality if you ask me!

They can all be found at Amazon, or the E5 can be found at DealExtreme.

Two reasons, the iPod Touch 3G also has a terrible DAC, and requires a line-out attachment to produce clean audio. Additionally you are using an external amp.

That's why?
[Galaxy S II General] oyebto:
arm guys.. do give neutron music player a shot... you may be surprised. =) sure its only software and not a change of hardware, but you never know.
[Galaxy S II General] gattari:
I think that ever an amp get good result. For this reason I use an amp.
[Galaxy S II General] nikzDHD:
Hopefully ICS brings the USB host to phones so we can connect to an external amp that way something small and portable to bypass the headphone output.

But regardless of audio issues this phone is a beast.
[Galaxy S II General] madmaximillian:
i agree, but not for those who listen to music
[Galaxy S II General] cobhc:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he already said regardless of audio issues.
[Galaxy S II General] nikzDHD:
I did :)
[Galaxy S II General] sturmeh:
You mean an external DAC & Amp. (Check out Fiio E7.)

That'd be good.
[Galaxy S II General] KaliKot:
Or the iBasso D-zero. It's very compact and light :)

I can attest that the latest kernel and neutron player gives a quite enjoyable audio experience, very nice update from Samsung
[Galaxy S II General] rothshek:
yes, agree.
[Galaxy S II General] arkadius41:
It means that all around about audio quality depends of kernel ? If so, when i flash custom 2.3.5 rom with modded kernel ( almost everyone has) it doesnt effect with better audio ? So wich kernel gives the best results ?
[Galaxy S II General] j4nn3n:
My SII sound pretty good using poweramp and my Sennheiser cx400 in ears... sure you can hear interference from the phone's internal electronics sometimes, but that's normal I guess.

Sent with my finger using XDA App
[Galaxy S II General] j4nn3n:
Is the difference between kernels so obvious? Because if you want your test to be a accurate a possible you have to flash/test them on the same day, in the same room, with the same background noise, same song etc etc... correct me if I'm wrong.

Sent with my finger using XDA App
[Galaxy S II General] skarboy:
same day is not enough

should be seconds though
[Galaxy S II General] DestRen:
The sound is completely different, why there minutes/seconds? Even after a week everything will be clear :)

PS I go through tests to compare the ABX mp3 320kbit (original > mp3 > flac) against lossless (flac original) ;)
[Galaxy S II General] lgkahn:
I'll ask again. since i did not get an answer.. I know you cannot make the sound as good as the sgs .. but how about the mic settings in voodoo sound, can you mimic the mic settings so we can at least record something at a concert that is useable. I am willing to pay for this feature thanks.
[Galaxy S II General] DocMAX:
maybe you are a dog?
[Galaxy S II General] DocMAX:
OK people. I have to take back my concerns about audio quality. AUDIO QUALITY is BETTER than SGS1!!! Comming from CM7 i've installed stock firmware and i'm impressed with the very good audio quality. No need for voodoo sound anymore!
[Galaxy S II General] Prankey:
Haha, you seems to be the only HUMAN on Earth terming SGS2 as giving better headphones output than SGS1! CONGRATS for being human!!! :)

I have done side by side comparison on some decent headphones and can confirm that there is no comparison between the two with SGS1 being absolutely superior. Though I would have agreed if you said the external speaker sound better.
[Galaxy S II General] gattari:
No!!! I am the second human.

I really don"t know how sound the 9000 because I have a 9003.....

I Don"t know if 9003 chip Dac and amp is the same of gs1

But I have a iPod 3g and a cowon d2 and I prefer gs2 over its.

My headphone set up is a good set up with an external amp.
[Galaxy S II General] trungdaika:
i think u're the second of something else...

i9003 has no voodoo sound because of hardware related.

i9000 without voodoo is really bad but with voodoo, it rocks.

The headset output in i9100 is nothing compared to a voodooed i9000.
[Galaxy S II General] gattari:
Well, I don't know Voodoo.

Please you explain me what is it and how ....

I want to hope that it is not an equalizer or something like that.

I abhor any kind of equalization

Thanks
[Galaxy S II General] d3ck4rd:
Is there anyway for me to make the audio quality as good as it now supposedly is on the stock roms on CM7?
[Galaxy S II General] superleeds27:
Try PowerAmp Beta 2
[Galaxy S II General] d3ck4rd:
Thing is I use MusicBeta quite alot so switching from the stock player isn't really an option :(
[Galaxy S II General] brandenk0:
Not to call you out or anything but, I find this hard to believe. Where on Wolfson's website does it say this?
[Galaxy S II General] kersh:
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/media_centre/item/first_quarter_results_to_3_april_2011/
[Galaxy S II General] blackstar84:
Yes exactly...But I am still waiting for an reply from Wolfson for further details..

I would also recommend that more people start mail them ask about this..maybe you get different answers etc...

I have mailed wolfson europe... if some one want to mail wolfson usa or asia..please do so... I am also awaiting answer from Samsung...But I know they want to be very secret about details like this... so it is probably a bigger chance you will find more info through 3rd parties..like Wolfson...Or perhaps even Yamaha know...
[Galaxy S II General] :
Not an audiophile by any stretch. How do they compare - the Wolfson vs the Yamaha solution?

What's the general perception among the knowledgeable crowd? I believe there might be different solutions available from both these companies. So, I can understand if the replies are like "it depends.." :D
[Galaxy S II General] blackstar84:
When it comes to audio subjective experiences like that hold no value...cause we all hear different as biological creatures... a good benchmark test however..will however give a complete picture..of how it does perform.
[Galaxy S II General] ph00ny:
i wouldn't go as far as say it sounds as good as my Cowon D2/D2+ but it's a decent sounding device. It's definitely lacking in output and i highly doubt it will be able to drive a decent set of cans
[Galaxy S II General] Funkym0nkey:
To be honest, even Korea's NFC enabled versions dont have Wolfson chip. All of them have Yamaha chip.

As far as optimus 2x / G2X is concerned, its sound quality is meh even with WM8994. Its worse than non voodoo SGS1 or even original wave.

Like I said, the main complaint is with the sound output level. PowerAMP's preamp compensates a little, but nowhere near to Nexus S. It will probably have issues driving high impedance headphones to its full potential.

But most consumer grade or even something above consumer grade headphones / IEMs will not be an issue.

I have Brainwavz M1, M2. Nuforce NE7, NE 700X, Audio Technica ATH M50 and my 8 year old modded SR 60s (they have soo many mods on them that I have lost count ). SGS2 can drive all except SR 60s which I am yet to try on SGS2. I am no audiophile as my interest in music is purely casual entertainment, but over years I have come to know what I can live with and what is unacceptable. (Like DHD, Optimus 2X). And SGS2 is not unacceptable.
[Galaxy S II General] Woodend:
I too have doubts that Europe will ever get it with the Wolfson chip, so I won´t cancel my order.

I wait for the GSM review to get an "objective" review of it´s audio capability. And then there´s Supercurio. Still have my hopes up.
[Galaxy S II General] dazzer1975:
Awesome thanks for this, I will be using etymotic er 4 predominantly along with some audi technica esw9's and shure se530's

mainly the ety's and esw's though as I like clean n clinical.
[Galaxy S II General] dazzer1975:
Regarding NFC I was also under the impression that no version in any region will get NFC

The reason Korea's s2 is slightly bulgier is so it has the hardware to make use of their ultra fast net connections? (got that off possibly engadget v recently, but as to the veracity of the claim, i dunno)
[Galaxy S II General] sarsh11:
No, that's wrong.

The Korean phone is thicker because it actually has a NFC chip, and also a TV tuner. The phone is still being launched with NFC in specific regions, although its not known which regions exactly. According to Samsung India, the Indian version is going to have a NFC chip..this has been confirmed a few days ago.
[Galaxy S II General] blackstar84:
I did get a reply to my email today from wolfson...

"Unfortunately due to company’s confidentiality I am unable share any information with you about the Samsung Galaxy S2 phone.

Thank you for contacting us and I hope you’ll be satisfied with your new phone.

"
[Galaxy S II General] blackstar84:
Well samsung have already confirmed it will be released in sweden this summer...this was announced only a couple of days ago through samsung sweden.
[Galaxy S II General] supercurio:
Every Galaxy S II devices contain and will contain Yamaha's MC-1N2 audio codec and not Wolfson.

(if a few people still had doubts)
[Galaxy S II General] blackstar84:
And where did you get that from if I may ask ?

You are still aware that Wolfson have confirmed officially that Wolfson chip will be included in atleast ONE of the S2...but what version we still do not know...cause there will be many versions....

For instance one will have smaller display...some will have NFC and some not..there will be 32 and 16 gb version etc...However...the wolfson chip might only be available...as import though...
[Galaxy S II General] supercurio:
I don't see it happening, this is a personal opinion.

Such infos are secret because manufacturers are strictly forbidden by Samsung/Microsoft whatever to communicate about the fact they're in a device or not.

Its also sensitive informations because it has a direct (and potentially HUGE) impact on stock prices.

And of course I might be proven wrong as usual ^^
[Galaxy S II General] kradcliffe:
Hi Supercurio.

I upgraded to the SGS2 expecting it to be as good audio ways as the S and the sound using poweramp is pretty similar.

It does however need a volume boost.

Do you think this is achievable as it may decide whether I keep the handset or not. No point upgrading for less volume than the Galaxy S

Keith
[Galaxy S II General] RogerPodacter:
the output level surely can be boosted with a custom ROM since it looks like the necessary source code is released. (correct me if i'm wrong, i only looked at battery code, not the audio files). so it should be able to be boosted.

improving the quality, that i dont know.
[Galaxy S II General] dazzer1975:
hmm after a further search that appears to be the case, not a deal breaker for me, infact totally irrelevant (for me) but it's still annoying how manufacturers chop n change spec for different markets.

Equally annoying is the not knowing with any certainty what audio chip the phone will have :(
[Galaxy S II General] BarryH_GEG:
You've said this four times. It's pretty meaningless. At the time it was said, Samsung may have intended to use the chip but it is by no means concrete. We have no idea what kind of contractual relationship exists which is really the only thing that matters. Things change between suppliers and manufacturers on a dime and the fact that Wolfson will no longer confirm what they've already said is the answer to the question. I can understand substituting the Tegra chip to make production numbers but to voluntarily support two different sound vendors isn't logical when 80% or more of customers don't know the difference.
[Galaxy S II General] serafko:
Digital out

Is it possible to get digital audio out over usb, before DAC conversion to analog. I have iBasso D-zero with usb input, his own Wolfson DAC and headphone amplifier.
[Galaxy S II General] cobhc:
Not until we get Ice Cream Sandwich.
[Galaxy S II General] AndreiLux:
Latest Siyah has update3 sources now and I've tested this again on a before-and-after basis and the sound improvement is definitely there!
[Galaxy S II General] m2smoe:
Thanks, gonna test it now then
[Galaxy S II General] arkadius41:
Which exactly do you mean ? Siyah 2.0 kernel ?
[Galaxy S II General] m2smoe:
2.1 beta 10char
[Galaxy S II General] arkadius41:
Fine, what improvements did you noticed ?