yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
Right now, it does work for me. It gives a pretty good estimation of where I am. However, when I first noticed this issue a few weeks ago, Google was telling me that I was in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Ecuador.

GPS has been working intermittently for the past week, but it still hasn't been stable. On Tuesday, I noticed the Pacific issue again when I was trying to look up something on the map from my car.

Incidentally, right now my GPS is working AND the Google services estimate my position fairly accurately with wifi and GPS off. It sure seems like the two have to be related.

Is it possible that even if I uncheck Google Location Services, that the phones are still trying to use that estimated location based on the Verizon towers to triangulate the GPS satellites, and if they are far out of the expected range, then it can't get a fix?

That might explain why airplane mode works--if the cell radio is off, then it can't use Verizon's towers to estimate the location, and it has to do a GPS cold start, which works although it takes a couple of minutes.

But I would not expect the radio to have any effect with aGPS turned off. I have been assuming that aGPS is only the XTRA data that you can turn off in the GPS Status app. But is it possible that the phone still attempts its own form of aGPS using the towers, and the only way to disable that is turning off the radio? Or is there a master "turn all aGPS off" switch somewhere other than in the GPS Status app that we're missing?
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
If you turn off lbs, there is no triangulation used. WiFi must be off too. Turning off data will turn off any xtra download. Then is pure GPS software and hardware.

The bad triangulation estimates were fixed in 1.13.605.7. There was additional xtra code added. The GPS firmware was tweaked via radio update.

I've probably spent more time looking at the GPS issue than anyone on this forum.

It's not a location based issue, where Verizon is at fault. Its a local phone issue that may or may not get cleared up by HTC in future updates.

Mine works wonderfully on 1.13.605.7.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
If this isn't a Verizon regional issue, why does gps work fine when we travel outside of their east Texas network?
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mike.s:
If GPS works when not connected to the VZW network, the issue may be with their towers handing out bad almanac/ephemeris data. That data is provided by the towers to support aGPS, and is used even if a phone has standalone GPS, because it shortens the time-to-first-fix. By disconnecting from the network, you force the phone's GPS get get all data from the satellites.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
With stand alone gps and data enabled, (wifi, Google location, VZW location are off) the Thunderbolt never gets a fix. Occasionally there is 1 to 2 sats in view. Google maps says location is not available.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
Now turn off data on the thunderbolt. See if you lock. Report back.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
Your insight is appreciated adrynalyne. I am running the leaked radio and the latest version of your ROM. Neither made any difference in this behavior. It's not just our phones, and not just Thunderbolts. My brother's Droid X is having this problem, and he's had it since it was released and it never did this before. Also, when he went from Tyler to Dallas, everything just started working again. All location based services were off, only standalone GPS, and in a car so there's no Wifi.

With that being said, is Mike correct:

This would make the most sense, and this is what I've been trying to determine. The XTRA almanac data is supposed to come from xtra1.gpsonextra.net and those servers, right? So is Verizon doing something to intercept that and return their own almanac data from their towers, which happens to be wrong in East Texas?

I used a packet sniffer and noted a few pages back that it seemed to still be using the gpsonextra servers whether I was on the Verizon network or not. But maybe the phone is additionally requesting almanac data from the towers, and that wouldn't show up in the packet sniffer. But is there any way to turn that off if it is the case?

This sounds similar to the threads I've read about Google Market hiding tethering apps if you're on the network, but if you go into airplane mode and enable wifi then you can download them. Is that what we're dealing with here too?

If so, that's good... because Verizon can fix the data on their towers. But as long as they keep blaming Google for it, then we are stuck. Whether it is Verizon or not, it can't be Google's fault, right?
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
After 20 minutes, I get the same result.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
That's a phone issue then.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
My wife's Thunderbolt has the same issue. Her TB is stock and received the OTA update from Verizon this morning. After the update GPS is still not working.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
I have 2 Thunderbolts in hand that do exactly this. When this first started, I got a warranty replacement for mine and the replacement had the exact same issue.

But once we leave East Texas, all location based service function as they should.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
I believe Verizon can affect aGPS. But standalone GPS with no assistance, they cannot.

Think about it. Is simply not possible if you turned off all data.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
When you say "with no assistance" do you mean with VZW and Google location services turned off, and only that? Because that's how I've been running it since this started (the first time it told me I was in the Pacific Ocean).

From then until about a week ago, the only way I could get a lock in this configuration was to turn on airplane mode. I could turn off Wifi, 3G, Bluetooth, everything. But until the CDMA radio turned off, it would not lock. I repeated the procedure many times with the same result.

For the past week, it has been working sporadically, but certainly not consistently. Now that Google's service seems to be working correctly, the GPS locks quickly. Possibly the East Texas aGPS issue was Google+Alltel tower related, and the phones just have flaky standalone GPS hardware.

But that doesn't explain why airplane mode would consistently make a difference. Maybe we'll never know.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
No LBS services, no data= 100% standalone GPS.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] phydo:
Seriously. Verizon (as far as I know) doesn't own a single gps satellite whatsoever. There's a program on the market called gpstest or something like that which will show the satellites that you are locked on to and display a little better what your gps is doing. but if it's a hardware issue, like adrynalyne said, not even that program will be of much use I'd imagine.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wilydodger:
Ok man, it is puzzling, but this is a real thing that has been plauging us for over a month. You must not be in the affected area, I can tell.

This happened when Verizon merged their towers, period. It is NOT a hardware problem on our phones. My Droid X doesn't work, my replacement Droid X didn't work, none of the phones in the Verizon stores work. Accept it.

The problem is that we are NOT using standalone GPS units buddy. We are using cellular devices with GPS chips integrated into them. Despite the fact that there are toggles to disable the VZ location services and aGPS, obviously there is still some dependence on the towers if you disable them.

I know for a fact that my GPS works because it starts working when I leave the area.

Why are you so convinced that we don't know how to work out own phones?

Edit: It doesn't sound like you read the whole thread carefully. It really is perplexing, but go ahead and start from the begining. That will save us the trouble of reiterating the steps we have all already taken. If you still don't believe us, try calling the Tyler Verizon store (903-534-7849 and ask them. Yes you will get a total clueless and pass the buck acknowledgment of the problem, but the WILL acknowledge it. Here's a question to ask yourself when you do, would the people who make their living on sales admit that the GPS won't work on their much vaunted, all powerful, DROID DOES phones unless they absolutely had to? What would they have to gain from that?
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
Give me one plausible explanation on how its possible for a carrier to block standalone gps.

Just one. I believe you that their aGPS is screwed. However, aGPS does not stop standalone from working. It simply does not. In tandem it might stop it, sure, but if you turn off all assistance, and it doesn't work, its the phone. Thats all there is to it. Thats what I have been trying to explain.

So if there is an aGPS problem in Eastern Texas, I feel for ya. However, its not illegal. No laws are broken. No horns need to be blown. It does need to be fixed, but GPS in itself, is not broken.

If a device requires GPS assistance to lock, it is still a problem with the device.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wilydodger:
Again, we are not having trouble with standalone GPS units. We are having problems with Android phones. If you think that these devices could qualify as a "Standalone GPS" unit, I have some Garmin stock to sell you....

This is real man. Call and ask for yourself. Come see for yourself. What are you basing your denial on? I have a Computer Engineering Degree from UT Austin, so trust that I am perfectly capable of identifying an issue like this.

What area are you even in?

That these phones are being misdirected by information from the towers is a flaw in my opinion. You don't seem to get the magnitude of this though. "The device" is not right, the proper description is "all models of Android phones from EVERY manufacturer that are tied to the Verizon network"....

Edit: I have a stomach bug, so I am a bit slow today. I apologize to all for not realizing that I was feeding the Troll until now. That was completely my mistake...
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mike.s:
No one has claimed they could.

So, how do you set the TB so it does not use aGPS information when connected to the network? From your earlier posts, I get the feeling that you think turning off Verizon and Google location services does that - it doesn't.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
I think the only way to completely disable aGPS is to enable airplane mode. Which is why our GPS works properly in airplane mode.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
I said turn data off too. You are confused if you think that severing the data connection does not turn off all gps assistance.

Selective reading sucks.

And thewayne is saying the carrier can break standlone gps. I've tried over and over to show this, but I keep meeting resistance, and finally, he proved it was the device by turning off data, and LBS.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
At any rate, I am done here, because there are too many folks in this thread that do not understand how GPS works, and are too bullheaded to see it.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
If it requires wifi to work, as you are implying, that is WIFI TRIANGULATION. Once again, not true GPS, and indicative there is a problem the GPS unit in thunderbolt phones.

You are so damn bullheaded, and calling me a troll on top of that?

Classic.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
So every Verizon phone in East Texas is broken?
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
Every Verizon phone?

Now thats classic. Lets make up statistics on the spot.

I believe everyone drawn to this thread, has GPS issues, yes.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mike.s:
You really should at least look at the quotes I provide, since you obviously can't recall what you just said. Your exact statement was "turn off all assistance."

As does deliberately obtuse writing. Why don't you tell us EXACTLY what phone setting to make so that the phone is usable (can make calls, send/receive SMS, browse web, all the other things a smartphone is supposed to do), but does not use aGPS assistance data.

He said no such thing. You pulled that claim out of the same place your head is.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dr_drache:
may be true, but if you have WIFI on, it uses wifi aGPS, so the results are completely flawed, like your entire logic thus far.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
I'm gonna break it down one last time and move on to more intelligent discussions instead of lowering myself to the level of the people starting to sling mud in this thread.

If you:

Turn off all location based services so that there is no cell tower triangulation,

and turn off all data so there is no ephemeris data being downloaded,

and turn off wifi, so there is no wifi triangulation,

and turn on standalone GPS

It is completely out of carrier control. If at that point your GPS does not function, at all, and never locks...its a phone issue, be it hardware or firmware.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
I haven't presumed to have knowledge of GPS theory. I am trying to understand what is causing the problem for all of us in this area.

Yes, we can get a fix in airplane mode using wifi aGPS, but not with the data connection enabled as you have stated. Doesn't this point to a problem with Verizon aGPS information?
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mike.s:
It's good to see that you recognize your own flaws, and have found a method of dealing with them.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
We aren't slinging mud. We are trying to gain an understanding of the problem.

adrynalyne, your contributions to the community are appreciated. But I think those of us in this region are extremely frustrated since this has been affecting all of us for over a month.

Trust me, I have read all of your posts throughly. I wish it was a simple as being a hardware issue, but that just isn't the case.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
Adrynalyne, please look at these screen shots. We aren't making this up. We are just as frustrated with it as you are with us. I'm just hoping that with all of your knowledge, you might be able to figure out something that will help.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7394/vzwtxgps.png
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
You're not helping.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
thewayne01, try this.

https://market.android.com/details?id=ck.GPSXtra&feature=search_result

I had Captainkrtek build it for me some time ago.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wilydodger:
Edit: Comment removed because I was an asshat in it.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
Get me a logcat when you are running through these tests.

Has anyone visited a Verizon store to verify all their devices do it, iPhone included?

Edit: Don't bother. A choice couple have decided they don't want my help and instead rather fight. I am done.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mike.s:
Of course, neither is adrynalyne, who's made it perfectly clear that he doesn't understand the issue.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
You got it.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
Chill out... do you want to chase away someone with a ton of knowledge and rely on Verizon to fix this on their own?

I agree he came in here posting without reading through the pages of posts we have before, but if you tell him to go away, he just might. And then we're stuck.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wilydodger:
Wow jonakin, thank you for taking the time to do that. A picture truly is worth a thousand words. I have been trying to get the word of this spread around in some other treads and outlets. May I have your permission to use your graphic as an illustration?

I do wish that my Droid X would at least lock if I did that, but it seems even unacceptable that the Thunderbolt. Even if I do the airplane mode method, I still cannot get a lock.

Luckily, I drove far enough out of the area a few days ago to see that my GPS still worked. It fired right up a few miles north of Big Sandy.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
Sure, go for it.

My brother also has the DX and there's nothing I can do to get his to lock... except that he drove to Ft. Worth and it all worked perfectly there.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
I now have a fix with 8 sats, with data enabled. What exactly does that app do?
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wilydodger:
Well I apologize to adrynalyne if his app is actually helping.

I am just exhausted of spelling this issue out to Verizon people. In this one place, everything is documented from start to finish, we shouldn't need to retype the thread from start to finish.

However, if you can actually help us adrynalyne, please come back and I will not be so antagonistic, but please have the respect for us to at least approach this as if our problem is real.

Well, I hope I didn't drive off the only help we are going to get on this. I hereby pass the reins back to you guys until I am feeling better. If someone can get a hold of adrynalyne. I'll type fire off an apology.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
Has anyone else tried the GPSXtra app?

I have maintained a fix for 30 minutes. I can only assume that we are having trouble downloading the xtra.bin file from Verizon, and this app manually downloads it.

I am about to head out, so i will see if it maintains a fix.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
Well, I was going to spend even more time going through the tests again to do this, but it looks like he really has gone away, and he doesn't allow private messages, so I'm not wasting my time now.

I guess I should call Verizon tech support and see if I can get somebody to actually look at this thread and those screen shots I produced. Not likely.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wilydodger:
The app just locks up on my Droid X. I can't tell that it actually downloaded anything. Wow, I ran off the guy with the fix before he could fix it for the X. Now that is my life....

To be clear, I ran the app and no GPS lock still.

I'll go away though, maybe adrynalyne if I am not posting anymore. Sorry again guys...
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
It doesn't seem to make a difference for me. Admittedly though, right now I am able to get a fix. But that app doesn't make it any faster. It's weird that I can get a fix from my place, but if I go less than 5 miles away to my brother's, it doesn't work anymore. Then again, that's how it's been for the past week... working for a while and then nothing.

But I don't know why that would fix anything, because in airplane mode you know it isn't downloading the xtra.bin, but it can get a fix.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
It's no longer working.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
Can't say I'm shocked to see that.

Maybe you should try this app called "GPS Status" and if that doesn't work, it must be your phone. ;)

Seriously though, if it really is the towers, then yours is not working at this moment in Tyler, right? Mine is. In fact, I just wiped it out, installed the rooted version of the OTA RUU. I'm about to put DB 1.6.3 on it, but before I did, I checked the GPS. It got a fix in like 3 seconds cold. Anyway, 4 hours ago at my brother's house, it was not working. I'm in the vicinity of Kinsey, he's out a little toward Gresham, so I could be getting a different tower there.

I don't know, I'm exhausted from thinking about it and looking at it and testing it out.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
I came back to help once I cooled off.

Guess you guys don't want it after all.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
We appreciate the help. But this is taking our time too. I'm not going to waste time trying to get logcats if you are just going to bail on us.

You are the one that came in with the attitude in the first place, getting them all worked up by basically calling them incompetent liars who didn't know how to use their phones.

In the meantime, I was spending my time trying to give you something to work with and actually see what was happening. Then you left me hanging.

If you are upset by my joke to thewayne01 above, you have to take it in the context of that throughout this thread, there have been numerous people that quickly responded with "download the GPS status app" without reading the thread, and basically discounting what we're seeing and just saying that it's got to be our phones.

It was not directed at you. I assumed you'd never be back.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jonakin:
Anybody who runs across this and wants to, take a look at this map and highlight any areas where you're experiencing problems, or highlight where the GPS started working again [permanently] if you left the area, and when it stopped working when you came back.

Link to Google Maps
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin

Download the file, adb push to /data.

See if it makes any difference.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
It is working after this. I have a fix with 9 sats at my desk (data and wifi enabled).

I will check again in the morning to see if it is still working and report back.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
The data expires after 24 hours but let me know.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mrbracht:
I just read this whole thread and all I can say is wow... Just wow...

Sent from a cellular telephone
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
After spending hours of sifting through the framework, I found something.

In the decompiled code, I found this in the gpslocationprovider smali:

h-slp.mnc%03d.mcc%03d.pub.3gppnetwork.org

This didn't look right to me.

According to wikipedia, Verizon uses two MMC codes, and many MNC codes for LTE.

So I have changed it to h-slp.mnc480.mcc311.pub.3gppnetwork.org.

This should correspond to the Verizon LTE (and maybe eHRPD) network.

You can see some similar ideas here:

http://www.postiar.com/post/1058/Trick+To+Grab+Satellites+Faster+-+GPS+Movie+-.html

I've done some preliminary tests, and it seems hopeful, but not being in the area, I cannot be certain (plus my gps is warm). This has only been tested with das bamf 1.6.3. I cannot vouch how it works for all roms.

http://www.multiupload.com/HV62GF8Y6U

Need to be rooted, make a clockwork backup first. Install via clockwork recovery.

I have also recompiled with the standard google supl server.

http://www.multiupload.com/7A1T2X0SRP

Same as above, backlup, first.

Note:

Testing was performed using the very latest radios.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
GPS was out again this morning. I will try this and report back.
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thewayne01:
Should this work even though LTE isn't available yet in this area?

I am about to try it and see...
[Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adrynalyne:
I'm not in an lte area, and it works. The second one is network agnostic anyway.