yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Captivate General] modest_mandroid:
If you have a copy, send it here. I'll pick it apart and report back what I find out.

Also, I'll keep an open mind, but I'm leaning very very VERY hard toward the BS camp. This sounds even more ridiculous than Sony's rootkit fiasco, and that went over like a lead balloon for them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were up to something - trying to build in some sort of data metering app, but I highly doubt it's anything like what you guys are speculating. You're dreaming up another doomsday scenario, just like the whole e-fuse thing when the Droid X first came out. Remember how everyone thought Motorola built in some crazy protection system that will perma-brick your phone on purpose if it detects any sort of modification to the OS, and how everyone was all up in arms about it? I do, and it didn't pan out to be anything like the rumors.

I also highly doubt they'll do anything if you get rid of it, other than send you some retarded harassing sms.
[Captivate General] TheBassman369:
This is madness!!! If this happens then it is back to iOS for me. I love Android and I HATE Apple but I never really enjoyed Android until I flashed a custom ROM.

CM7 Inspire 4G
[Captivate General] bluemoon1221:
Glad I read this.i think it might be true cause it's already happening on verizon...

would going to stock 2.2 be safe?

Sent from my phone
[Captivate General] 41LY45:
Ffffffuuuu!!

For this reason alone I buy my phones off contract.

Effing carriers, this is an invasion of privacy!

I doubt Google will clamp down on it like Apple do. Hopefully. *prays*
[Captivate General] tek818:
Cool story... Did you share it with the other kids on the short bus?
[Captivate General] TRusselo:
so how would stores be able to implement this?

what if i walk into a cell phone carrier and want to buy a phone out right? no contract? are they going to grab the phone from a different pile than the contract phones? no... and that alleged software on a phone not under a contract WOULD BE THE EASIEST LAW SUIT EVER. "why is att collecting info on me? im not a customer, i dont have a contract with them... can i have millions of dollars judge?"

and if you do have a contract with them what are they going to do? charge you money that wasnt agreed to in the contract?

this just doesnt make any sense!!
[Captivate General] modest_mandroid:
Yeah, no kidding.. or if you got your phone on contract, but through a 3rd party retailer. I wonder how they'd go about bugging the millions of customers that aren't on the latest devices too :p
[Captivate General] TheBassman369:
These are the times that try men's souls.

CM7 Inspire 4G
[Captivate General] gibson3659:
I do know that carriers are trying to put software agents on phones to collect RF and similar information. It wouldn't be too technically far fetched to implement something like this. Although technically feasible, I don't see this happening on a GSM based network.

To be done on GSM, the network would have to marry the SIM to the device and restrict their own SIMs to only their handsets via IMEI. If it is not their SIM (roamer), there would be no restriction.
[Captivate General] emuneee:
I'm with you. The whole remove your phone from the network because the app isn't installed is impossible to enforce on an open GSM network such as AT&Ts. I could believe it happening on Verizon and maybe Sprint. T-Mobile and AT&T as they are today, not so much.
[Captivate General] Enhanced:
Pretty much this. It seems way too intricate and infringes on too many rights/laws for this to be fully realized. I wouldn't be surprised of new technology that may clamp down....but that has always been evident with carriers and is nothing new.

The ETF part is skeptical as well. A telecom company would actually move forward voluntarily and flat out refuse your business? I'm not sure how it works in the America, but in Canada, our carriers bend over backwards for us to stay with their service. When we even speak of the world "cancel" they throw their retentions department at us and give us the world in credits/discounts and extra service. Plus, there's even a limit as to how much ETF we could pay so it definitely amounts to a loss long term for them. As always, gaining subscribers is job one for carriers with millions poured into advertising and promotions. Why would they jeopardize their efforts by ensuring an onslaught of cancellations for something as "small" (in the grand scheme of things) as software circumvention? They wouldn't.

Plus, we can always get the Nexus line of phones if this apocalypse did happen. No way Google phones would be affected.

Overall, doubtful that this entire scenario would come into fruition.
[Captivate General] axis01:
Could this be an attempt by ATT to scare people away from Verizon? I'm sure they lost quite a few customers when IOS joined the VZ camp. I could see them trying to steal the Droid community to offset the IOS loss. :D
[Captivate General] bames:
ah nostalgia that was my first cell too....the 2nd was an ulgy a** nokia candy bar that was about 3/4" thick
[Captivate General] bames:
keep in mind this it takes them like 3-5 months just to simply release an IOS update once the phone manufacturer gives it to them.
[Captivate General] stone_phalanges:
This sounds like BS. They won't cancel your contract because you won't update your phone. That doesn't make sense. We should flash to stock? That makes even less sense. Is there anything official from the carriers about this? why would they want to do this secretly and end up kicking lots of customers out of their plans. There are multiple layers of this that don't make sense.
[Captivate General] 41LY45:
Sorry for being clear. This does not apply to all countries though.

1. In my country there is no such thing as carrier locked phones (it's prohibited by law) If they do sell it, they don't add any funny crapware on it.

2. The carrier does not provide or manage you warranties, the manufacturer does. So they don't give a damn on what you do with your phone. (a good thing actually)

3. I signed up only for a service contract of which a could terminate at anytime without being charged a single cent as penalty.

IMO, a line should be drawn on what the carrier can do and can't do.

And for shafting people for doing what they please on phones that they own, is complete BS.
[Captivate General] reinbeau:
So, if this is true, can they somehow 'push' something onto your phone if you're already on a custom ROM? And have been (never took the 2.2 'upgrade' from AT&T since I already had 2.2.1)?
[Captivate General] illavbill:
I've been flashing custom ROMs since I had a at&t branded PDA phone prior to the Cingular and back switches and have ALWAYS tethered / internet shared on my WinMo and Android phones and have had ZERO problems. I stay within my monthly confines and I am fine. I think this is a lot of paranoia. But if it's not it'll be broken soon enough. I'm not worried at all.
[Captivate General] xdahgary:
Probably. We do have an att sim card in our phone.
[Captivate General] TRusselo:
further more on top of this

when you are under contract, and want to cancel early you must pay (usually 20$ per month) for every month left on the contract. I have done this. I would have given ANYTHING to be dropped from the contract for FREE to move somewhere. This is why they give you cheap phones on contract, because no matter what they get more than the phones value. (36months X 20$)

HERE IS THE PROOF THIS IS BS. FREE PHONES!!!!!!!!

You could buy one of these MAGIC phones for 0$ on a 3 year contract, root/rom the phone and get cancelled by them automatically, sim unlock the phone and go somewhere else!!

**You never signed a contract that says they can charge you money for changing the software, only if you

choose

to leave their service early or dont pay the bill!

Under this alleged "thing to come" if they cancelled your contract they would have to do so without charging you, or draw up new contracts specifically for "these phones" only. Good luck on sales with that...

just not going to happen. too many problems. legal/contractual/logical.
[Captivate General] modest_mandroid:
That doesn't make any sense. Sim cards aren't magical devices that give them infinite access to your phone. All they contain is a few keys and identifiers that allow you to access their network and a small storage area for contacts.
[Captivate General] Endoran:
Even if the OP is 100% correct and even if AT&T is going through with all the trouble and extra cost etc and fully implementing this it doesn't matter. There are ways around anything in the software computer world, I have complete faith in the hacker/dev community to circumvent anything the carriers or google try to do. It's an arms race and THEY will ALWAYS be playing defense.

However, I for one want google to lock-down some. It's ridiculous that an update for our OS has been out for 4 months and we don't have it yet. By "lockdown" I mean add time restrictions on when manufacturers (and carriers) need to have OS updates released (and bind them for 2 years to releasing timely, google approved, updates - but they can skin and customize them all they want IF they MEET google quality standards and I'd think we'd all agree that 2.1 on the captivate would have failed miserably...google would have laughed at them). OR require manufacturers and carriers to submit their custom UI's and whatever else they want to desecrate to GOOGLE who will then create an update for their phones and release it themselves (of course google would require more money for this service). It would allow, say the 2.3 update to occur simultaneously across all eligible phones, although probably months later then it would have normally. Imagine...the software company making and updating the software!?!?!?! No way....*head explodes* :p
[Captivate General] nickm50:
To add to this it would also stop the "your phone won't run that version of Android" fiasco that the carriers are passing off to customers on older devices.
[Captivate General] Enhanced:
Umm not entirely so. Ask the teams trying to crack Motorola's bootloaders and they will tell you that it isn't so rosey.

Anyways, I was bored this morning and decided to read up on the linked posts, specifically the one at MyDroidWorld. It seems like many in there are spelling doom and gloom as not a result of any further evidence or other sources on top of the vague ones provided, but from just a single poster (P3Droid) who is actually the owner/admin/mod of the site. Everyone there seems to be taking his word as gospel which would make sense as they are a community of their own with him being one of the top dogs.

While he may be a legit insider, it doesn't bold well for his character when you read up on how he carries himself. Just read up on his twitter and you can see that he is very confrontational and erratic. He seems like a bit of a drama queen and loves to bark orders on telling people what to do like.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/gkt5f/attn_anyone_who_bought_into_p3droids_recent_fear/

http://i.imgur.com/xSERf.png

Again, while some carrier anti-circumvention tools may be on the horizon, this whole scenario is too extreme. No rooting? No custom ROMing? I really doubt this to be the new Android landscape.
[Captivate General] s44:
This is P3Droid covering his ass with FUD for releasing a Droid X Ginger leak with the tether-track module in the kernel.

We know this method *is* being rolled out by Verizon. Why? Because it was in the Fascinate Froyo leak kernels too. Our devs, of course, have nullified it. Never buy a locked bootloader device.

The other stuff is just wild-ass FUD.
[Captivate General] mwilhelm:
I'm more curious as to how, with tethering a laptop to your phone, you "move 50 gigs of data while paying for a 2 gig dataplan". How does that work? I mean, if the data goes through the tethered phone doesn't it register as 50 gigs? What am I missing? I understand that the carrier may be out the tethering charge but not the data charge. I have a 2 gig data plan and if I go over that they charge me for another 2 gigs of data.

Sent from my...
[Captivate General] modest_mandroid:
I think that's what he meant - that you're paying for a 2gb plan and use 50gb of data (thus having to pay the overage charges, while still taxing the network), or that you're grandfathered into some unlimited plan costing the same as the current 2gb plan, and downloading 50gb over a tether.

I disagree with the whole mandatory tethering plan concept, but that's an entirely different topic altogether.

What I don't get is how using your subsidized phone on a different network is supposed to affect their returns. You can't just get a subsidized phone on contract, cancel the contract and take your business elsewhere. They recoup the cost through a mandatory ETF. Unless he meant using the phone on another network without canceling your current contract, which makes even less sense..
[Captivate General] TRusselo:
you are completely correct.

50 gigs is 50 gigs. there is no way to mask it or fool it.

unless hes thinking of how opera mini browser compresses web pages before sending to phone reducing the data by upto 90% but that is way different tech, and doesnt apply to download files, only html websites....
[Captivate General] MikeyMike01:
This is a load of horse ****.

Sent from my Captivate
[Captivate General] nickm50:
VERY well said!

We can always count on you to put it out there! :)
[Captivate General] dingokevin:
Straight to the point.
[Captivate General] 13_:
Ding Ding Ding, we has a winner.

spot on ;)

Sent from a Captivate on Bluedipity 6.3, Onix 2.0.4, JQ1 with Xda App
[Captivate General] Dlev7:
Senor Chang doesnt lie, and when asked about his opinion upon the latest nonsense he responded with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXw6znXPfy4
[Captivate General] xThe Enforcer:
Wow, that stinks.
[Captivate General] h0ckey10:
If they care so much, use that idea of a background app but instead of detecting root have it detect tethering. They should not care if we only root as it violates NOTHING. It should be ur choice whether to keep the warranty.

And if this is true would it be only for new phones or pushed to us via updates?
[Captivate General] mycrors4:
if verizon alone does this

they loose millions of customers....

i cant even count how many people i know that have android phones(that are rooted) from verizon, let alone the droidx, droid incred, droid 1 and 2, and fascinate(galaxy s)

its more of a loss to them if they do this

i have a droid incred.... and if they do this, it will give me a good reason to switch to another company, and i would very happily go to sprint and get an evo 4g and happily live with that

and plus, how are they gonna push it to our phones.. if your rooted, you've done the OTA update block......... just dont break your phone you have right now, and you'll be good

this whole "we live in a free country" **** is just plain BS

its not a free country if i cant root my phone......
[Captivate General] climber1872000:
This is just another scare tactic to keep people from tethering and not paying for it. I myself, don't tether because I don't need to and personally I view not paying for a pay for service I is theft. I run a small manufacturing company that builds electronic enclosures and if someone was stealing copper cable from me I would be pretty ticked off and in reality stealing a service, such as data tethering is no different. Never-the-less, this is just a scare tactic to keep people from using their data services and not paying for them. Putting a program on a device to basically spy on a citizen is illegal, period. Furthermore, there is no way that AT&T or any other mobile phone service is stupid enough not to realize that doing something like this would kill the profits obtained in their private markets. At best they would only retain the business users, ie companies and government agencies with large businesses contracts that have policies against tampering with company owned mobile devices. That and maybe a few customers that really don't know any better. If you haber been around XDA as long as I have then you have most likely seen scare tactics similar to this newest one. Not saying that it's not possible just highly unlikely.
[Captivate General] 13_:
Lmao

Sent from a Captivate on Bluedipity 6.3, Onix 2.0.4, JQ1 with Xda App
[Captivate General] Picsman:
There is more potential profit in selling a 2gig plan which, statistically, is used to move 1gig of data that selling a 2gig plan and billing 48gigs as overage. If this were not true there would be no prepaid data plans. In addition, there are network capacity planning issues, collection losses and other matters which cause overages to reduce a carriers ROI.
[Captivate General] Picsman:
An off-network phone creates less revenue for a carrier than an on-network phone. I did not address the cost of changing networks as regards the user but rather the loss of revenue realized by the carrier.
[Captivate General] TRusselo:
tethering is free here in canada, and actually with rogers you can use your data plan on any device you own (Cell Phones, 3g wifi stick, tablet PC, tethering by USB or Mobile AP). If you buy a 2gig plan you can use it however you want.

And ok you guys cant USB tether on ATT (without charges) but can you guys do a Mobile AP? AKA mobile hotspot? Share your 3g connection over a wifi? My captivate came with that feature, and USB tethering with 2.2 from rogers.

its all free here... suckers...
[Captivate General] GSMinCT:
This is BS.

We can tether when we load a ROM on, but AT&T is now somehow detecting some people who are tethering (from the network side), and applying the $45 4GB tethering package (replaces $25 2GB data). The Canadian system makes a lot more sense.
[Captivate General] tjsooley:
Here is a thought...

If your in the u.s.a. And have att and do not pay for tethering than do not tether.

Its that simple people.
[Captivate General] nickm50:
With rogers the minimum tether plan is 1 gig.

The roms allow us to unlock it with lower packages though. I have never tethered my phone. Just linked to see if it worked. and it does.
[Captivate General] mrhaley30705:
If I pay for unlimited data, why does it matter how I use it? If Att didn't want me to USE a large amount of data, why did they SELL me an unlimited plan?

Sent from a place my wife doesn't know about (yet)
[Captivate General] AReynante:
I agree with the no tethering thing, but custom roms and kernels aren't hurting anyone.

I have the grandfathered unlimited plan too, but I don't have any desire to tether. I am always around wifi unless I'm driving, so it isn't a big issue
[Captivate General] capocaccia:
From my understanding, ATT does not have an unlimited data plan for smartphones.

EDIT: I see they have one for iPhone so they may have one for android that im just not aware of.
[Captivate General] mrhaley30705:
Since we are talking about tethering, does att throttle users after x amountof data? If so, what is that limit?

Sent from a place my wife doesn't know about (yet)
[Captivate General] mrhaley30705:
Trusselo,

Can't do either in US with att without paying extra (officially).

Unofficially, yes mobileAP can be done. Not sure about USB tethering, never tried it.

Sent from a place my wife doesn't know about (yet)
[Captivate General] AReynante:
they had one a year ago or so, and a lot of people have been grandfathered into the plan, keeping it past when they stopped offering it
[Captivate General] Shammyh:
So long story short... this is just BS.

AT&T is a device agnostic GSM network. Yes we all know they love to muck with the devices they sell, but ANY GSM 850/1900 device on the planet that has a roaming agreement with AT&T can use their network with impunity.

Unless they start bonding IMEI's with ICCID's and IMSI's (i.e. phone to sim card), there's no way this is enforceable on a GSM network. And even then, that would mean you wouldn't be able to swap SIM cards from phone to phone. And as far as I'm aware, that breaks the GSM spec, which I doubt AT&T is about to do.

And they can NEVER force you to pay the ETF. In fact, if you do "bad things" and AT&T wants to kick you off as a customer, they just terminate your account and send you on your way. You don't have to pay a dime.

Bit of a sidebar, but an old trick is to buy a subsidized phone on contract, take it to somewhere where the area is only covered by a partner (almost always T-Mobile) and use a lot of data. This costs AT&T a lot of money, and they will then call you and either ask you to stop, or terminate your contract without you having to pay a dollar. Aka, by subsidized phone, get it free! Of course, you'll never be able to open another AT&T account in your name again, but hey, free is free.
[Captivate General] tjsooley:
CORRECT.

I can see Verizon and sprint and other iden and cdma carriers doing this but its not practical for gsm carriers to do this, For gsm carriers to do this they would need to invent a new kind of gsm phone with the sim built in, They would need to partner with device makers on a whole different level to accomplish this.

Not happening.

However I would recommend not tethering unless you pay for it, we do this because we all love android and love to get more for the money we pay, not to STEEL SERVICE!

If we want to continue without some kind of lawsuit or court order to stop removing att tracking bloatware relating to tethering I suggest we not tether.
[Captivate General] vizographic:
Hah, I haven't seen a viral chain letter like this in years! They are always very entertaining and the way they can mutate is freaking phenomenal. It's a shame we can't install an off the shelf "brain defender app" to prevent these things from hijacking our grey matter. Still, it will be interesting to moniter and see how far this little emergent meme will go. Shouts to the OP for an entertaining read!
[Captivate General] nooomoto:
I call shenanigans
[Captivate General] KreepyKen:
Yeah, no doubt. It would make no sense for AT&T to do this...at least the part about terminating contracts. How many rooted AT&T phones are out there? Even if it's a small number (100,000), when you take into account an average monthly bill of probably $85, you're looking at them terminating at least $8.5 million in monthly revenue. Considering having customers root or run custom ROMs doesn't affect them at all, this would be financially stupid on their part. They have stockholders, after all.

I can see them using BigBrother.apk to detect tethering (stealing a for-pay service) or to identify phones with voided warranties to avoid warranty fraud, but no way in hell are they going to terminate my contract and throw away that monthly income because I have Paragon running on my phone.

The only way they're going to void a person's contract is if they're losing money to that person.
[Captivate General] Killerfish1450:
Here are some interesting reads everyone.

In general

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/paying-for-a-data-plan-doesnt-mean-you-can-use-it-any-way-you-want/11939?tag=rbxccnbzd1

About jailbroken Iphones

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/busted-at-t-begins-crackdown-on-iphone-jailbreakers-using-mywi-tethering/11928
[Captivate General] fatttire:
Agreed....always have to think of the legal aspect. This story is crazy.

Sent from my SGH-I897
[Captivate General] MikeyMike01:
Enabling free tethering is not immoral. It's our phone, our money, and our data. **** you AT&T.

Sent from my Captivate
[Captivate General] groves226:
It is their network and their backgaul. It is their user agreement that you signed. It is their right to protect their network or enforce their TOS. (every carrier has the same TOS).

It has been explained many times on XDA how the networks work. Excessive data connections hurt all users regardless of the manner in which the connection is used.

When companies enforce their TOS everyone cries foul and it is truly childish.
[Captivate General] joe.nobody:
this is total crap!