yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G Tablet General] Im_Gumby:
I suppose if I wanted to keep it stock I'd be mad too, but I purchased this device specifically due to the hardware specs and the decent set of developers here at XDA.

My tab was rooted as soon as the battery was fully charged.

My Moto droid was rooted about a month into ownership and is currently running a gingerbread rom Moto claims the device can't handle (so we can go buy a new one).

What I'm trying to point out is that there is little incentive for companies to spend time and money supporting equipment that is out in the field unless somehing is seriously wrong with it.

Viewsonic's decision to cripple (lack of full market, etc...) the stock device is really similar to VZ's decision to do the same to their phones (bloatware, etc...).

My advice to you is follow the simple instructions posted here and elsewhere on the net and install a custom rom (vegantab 5.1 is a very nice place to start).

It is very difficult to screw up and your device will be all it can be months if not years sooner than it would be waiting for a stock upgrade.
[G Tablet General] doctorisin:
Gumby,

Roebeet is a dev here. He's responsible for the TNT Lite and GADAM ROMs and was involved with Vegan as well. He's concerned about his ability to support us, not the performance of his tablet.

I believe the majority of modders are on TNT Lite because it is the most stable and well-supported ROM available. Viewsonic/TapnTap are making his job difficult. I'm guessing, but Viewsonic/TapnTap are probably stretched trying to deliver their next devices and have basically let GTablet development come to a screeching halt.

This is a shame and will probably cause many of us to look elsewhere for our next slate.
[G Tablet General] olddocwhite:
100 % Agree

Roebeet, thanks for bringing this up. I have been discussing this we others this past week. We were wondering exactly the same thing - Where is Viewsonic? They have not put out any updates or updated the website nor given us any information. I personally cannot understand this. They have a great product and could take the lead in the tablet market but are doing nothing.

Thanks for bringing this to everyones attention Roebeet. I am behind you 100%.
[G Tablet General] spx2000:
The fact it is on sale at woot and tigerdirect should be enough clues that viewsonic is moving dev resources away and probably to their next tablet product.
[G Tablet General] snapz54:
We aren't waiting for stock updates, the updates just give the devs more goodies to work with.

thank you roebeet, for making it feel like this community has a voice. My other device is a Locked down droid X so I know the feeling of being abandoned and laughed at by the manufacturer of your product. All these companies get a little success, but they quickly forget where they came from. I don't see anyone rushing out to line up for a viewpad and maybe it will stay that way if we continue to voice our opinions and the truth about viewsonic.

I think these companies think they can operate on the standalone GPS model of update frequency, once a year. That is not the world we live in though. I'd say two years is fair support table with a firmware update a minimum of every six months and above all else, CONSTANT OPEN COMMUNICATION WITH THE COMMUNITY THAT DEVELOPS AROUND YOUR PRODUCT.

We will fall off gradually at first, then a bit quicker, then a bit quicker still until there is an avalanche of gtabs on ebay and craigslist. Selling at 40 dollars each and being repursposed and sold as digital frames to the housewives of the world.

You've been warned Viewsonic, this is a direct clear threat. Come to the community or lose your established base and hope for anything more than a bargain bin future.

Think of how many people would have returned this product day 1 without a community, seriously consider that, the number is high. If not for the selfless efforts of people like roebeet. With no where to go, the people give up hope.

So what is it going to be?
[G Tablet General] MechAniX.one:
Thanks Roebeet, very well stated. They do need to get their **** together. We know right now the product isn't up to par with competition so if they want to compete it better be in the way of support. All we ask Viewsonic, is to keep us informed!
[G Tablet General] Im_Gumby:
Hmmm... didn't know he was a dev. Appologies, but the main points of my post are still valid (as you also noted in your speculation about their lack of support).

I guess I am wondering what they need to update that is holding up development of anything else? GB roms are out there now (and honeycomb ones won't be far off either) so what froyo fixes are showstopping?
[G Tablet General] snapz54:
dude, do you realize everything you say has no basis in fact? You are telling one of the guys that is our only hope of possibly running honeycomb on the gtab his own future. How do you know we'll get the source code? How do you know it will be usable? How do you know there will be a similar device we can port from? How do you know anything?

the simple answer is you don't. You seem to be arrogant and uneducated on the subject, so kindly back out of this conversation unless you have something relevant to add. You're stealing focus from an important topic.
[G Tablet General] joe2262:
How about in sleep mode the gTab sucks up the battery like there's no tomorrow?

Hey Roebeet, I always thought it was SOL? :D But I do agree with you.
[G Tablet General] crutzulee:
Exactly right, lets not lose focus... The scariest thing to me is that Robert is the originator of this thread. If he feels this way, then we may all be screwed as far as future support is concerned.

@Robeet -thanks for leading the charge and giving us a voice.

@Viewsonic. Please respond to this thread and keep an open dialogue with this community.
[G Tablet General] snapz54:
seems as if @roebeet got viewsonics attention on twitter?

any contact?
[G Tablet General] Im_Gumby:
You are right... google COULD decide not to release any more source codes.

And you might decide to be less of a tool.

Neither seems very likely.
[G Tablet General] roebeet:
My bad on the location - I thought I was in General when I posted this.

If a mod could move this, I'd appreciate it.

You nailed it. TNT Lite is basically an extension of stock - it gets updated, in general, when stock gets updated. If Viewsonic development dies, then TNT Lite dies - it's that simple.

We need the vendor to keep on top with updates as there are things that they can do for us, even to this day. UAT 3991 build was a perfect example (before they pulled it) - it's a MUCH better baseline to work off of than 3389 / 3588.

I know many are using the GB mods, and those would survive even if the vendor abandoned the device. But TNT Lite and anything else based off stock would fall by the wayside, and we really don't want that. Options are a good thing.

I want a response from them tomorrow or Tuesday - I don't like how they are treating their userbase right now (which includes me, as I own one) and I think we deserve an explanation and an ETA, at this point. If this happened at my day job, heads would be rolling by now.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about -- Pandigital. Their "Novel" white device was released in May and they are STILL releasing updates to it, to this day. Granted, they are still stuck on Android 2.0, but the fact they they just released an update a few weeks ago is a good sign that they haven't abandoned the device, yet. This is what I'd like to see from Viewsonic.

If you lose your XDA devs, then there IS no more development for this product. One dev here has already sold their device, and mine has been relegated as a dev unit since February (which I'm A-OK with, btw). If Viewsonic abandons this product, then the developers will eventually move on. In my case, stock updates are critical to keep TNT Lite relevant - once those are gone, TNT Lite will become stale and die. gADAM can stick around as long as Notion Ink supplies updates, and that remains to be seen as well. So don't think vendor support isn't important, because it actually is.
[G Tablet General] bso44:
Well said, roebeet.
[G Tablet General] jerdog:
Sorry - I think you completely misunderstood.... Not turning my back - but being realistic about what can be done.

nVidia isn't going to bow to Viewsonic on this.... nor should they. Malata used the Harmony system that was already old to begin with - the whole platform is almost a year or so old. Ventana isn't even the latest - Xoom and the Asus devices are on something much newer. Our hardware is at least 2 generations old - and getting older by the minute.

Now requiring Viewsonic to support the device through it's warranty period is appropriate and should be happening. And that's a great thing to seek and push for. Providing updated components for what they can provide as given to them by nVidia is important - but when that well dries up, they can only do so much - and the rest of the period will just have to be incremental maintenance releases to fix bugs in TnT and such.

I believe in this device and love it and will keep it and push for new development and making this device better - that has no bearing on me being a Moderator for the forum which just means I try to keep things organized, on topic and keep the trolls out.
[G Tablet General] Tostino:
Jerdog, do you feel the same way about whats going on in the phone scene? I have a Nexus one running Qualcom hardware. The Snapdragon it's running is now over two years old. It was released Q4 08'. I am running 2.3.3 now on it. Qualcom has newer chips available, yet they still support their older platforms as well.

It is just good business practice.

I fully expect the same of Nvidia. It isn't asking much.

-Adam
[G Tablet General] jerdog:
Here's the thing - we're dealing with apples and oranges here. The Nexus One is primarily a Google-driven device. They are the ones who support it and require the manufacturer to step up to the plate as required.

nVidia is relatively new on the scene in an environment that is changing rapidly - and the Xoom is the first device they've been part of that is officially approved by Google, which is how and why it shipped with Honeycomb and the Market. Malata didn't get approval from Google because their stuff doesn't fit the Android "standards" at the time. Viewsonic didn't either - which is why they had to use their own Market with TnT. nVidia will experience growing pains in this arena as it's definitely different from their graphics business....

So yes - it's good business practice in principal... but it's the danger of buying into a company in it's infancy in a new business arena....

And it's a risk we all take when we buy a device - we hope it's going to be supported as long as we can keep it. And thanks to the many developers and mods who have helped to make this device what it should have been. And here's hoping that it'll continue.
[G Tablet General] skozsert:
It seems like android tablets, at least at this point, appeal to the enthusiast market rather than the mass market for idevices. If Nvidia gets the reputation for dropping support on their hardware as soon as something newer comes out they could lose that market. Tablets are positioned between the smartphone and netbook/notebook markets and people expect continuing support. The best way to pressure Nvidia is to make sure this is widely publicized through the community and the recommendation from the enthusiast sites is to avoid Nvidia tablets and phones unless they make good with continuing support.
[G Tablet General] Tostino:
I actually sent an email with the info about Nvidia dropping support for Harmony, with links to the Nvidia forum and all to Android Central. Hopefully they will pick up on the story and get it out there...
[G Tablet General] Synman:
This is ridiculous. You guys are bantering about a practice from a hardware vendor that contradicts EVERYTHING they've done up to this point.

I have nvidia based video cards that are easily 10 years old now (talk about a fast paced development space) and to this day I can grab the latest unified drivers and use them on every flavor of Windows and *nix my heart desires.

We cannot stand for anything short of that from nvidia. Have they completely abandoned one of their key business strategies in the tablet space? Doing so ultimately undermines their own business model.

Let's stay focused.
[G Tablet General] modal realism:
Tegra 2 is almost 2 years old actually. This may mean they are pushing Tegra2 3D or Tegra3 out faster than previously anticipated due to the superior GPU in the iPad2.

Maybe they pulled people off the Harmony support project to push something else.

Sucks though.
[G Tablet General] prana22:
I have taken to twitter for viewsonice and nvidia's website

This is a complete joke from both nvidia and viewsonic. It blows me away that they would tell people to go to xda for support.
[G Tablet General] snapz54:
are we ready to start the nvidia push?

we need to capitalize on this momentum.

we can be scary...

post your concerns here:

http://developer.nvidia.com/tegra/forum/honeycomb-harmony

(thanks to clankfu)

The phone number I found was:

408-486-2000

execs are: (I assume email addresses are @nvidia.com)

Bruce Chan - Product PR Tegra and Handheld Products (thanks to clankfu)

bchan@nvidia.com

+1 (408) 562 7596

Jen-Hsun Huang – Co-Founder, President, and Chief Executive Officer

Chris A. Malachowsky – Co-Founder, and Senior Vice President of Research

Jonah M. Alben – Senior Vice President, GPU Engineering

Philip J. Carmack – Senior Vice President, Mobile Business Unit

Bill Dally – Chief Scientist

Dwight Diercks – Senior Vice President, Software Engineering

Twitter:

@nvidiategra = tegra news

@nvidiacc = customer care

@nvidiadeveloper = developer news

@nvidia = all purpose

this is the tweet I found to copy paste. at least use the hashtags...

Ladies and Gentlemen...

Shall we Shame these fine folks into acknowledging us???

update: press we've gotten so far:

http://phandroid.com/2011/04/12/nvi...vers-and-support-for-harmony-tegra-2-devices/

http://www.androidcentral.com/nvidia-stop-supporting-harmony-platform-past-froyo

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/04/12/nvidia_ventana_android_honeycomb/
[G Tablet General] pagantek:
The chip may only be 2 years old, but the drop in support for new drivers is contradictive of their normal practice of supporting and releasing drivers for much older products. They are still supporting and releasing drivers for Windows 7 x64 for the 6200 released in 2004.

edit: the tegra 2 chip was produced q1 2010... durn i was too late with my info... lol Good on ya Tostino for the research :)
[G Tablet General] MechAniX.one:
Is iPad2 GPU really that much more superior to Tegra 2?
[G Tablet General] MechAniX.one:
Do you have the address? Ill walk right over and slap some faces. :D
[G Tablet General] MechAniX.one:
I'm sure a writer at one of the big sites like Engadget would like to write about Nvidia abandoning their Tegra 2 line....
[G Tablet General] cd112:
What i dont understand is that Nvidia Tegra 2 is not a old GPU.. IT was just released in Motorola zoom. So that to me tells me that they are not going to support Motorola zoom either.. It would not be fair if they support Motorola xoom and not Gtablet.
[G Tablet General] Tostino:
The Tegra 2 is not 2 years old. It started production in Q1 2010. It wasn't in like any devices until late Q3/Q4 of 2010. They dropped support for it before it was really available in any products from the sound of it... Gingerbread was out in December 2010, and that was months before they said they had dropped support. If nothing else I want drivers for Gingerbread.

And @ above, yeah the iPad 2 GPU is pretty beastly. It shames Tegra 2 (which is to be expected, it's a lot newer).
[G Tablet General] snapz54:
slap faces with your keyboards, not literally... (type words) :)

they are in Walnut, CA
[G Tablet General] Tostino:
I have posted on the dev board, tweeted, and sent an email to Android Central (trying to get a story).

If you want continued support, do your part people!
[G Tablet General] brobits:
It's not tegra2 for which nvidia is dropping support. Nvidia is dropping support for Harmony in favor of Ventana. Both Harmony and Ventana are tegra2 chips, but they are different boards (and are sold as different development boards to manufacturers).

The gtab uses Harmony, and I believe the Xoom uses Ventana. I also believe Notion Ink was going to use Harmony on one of their new pieces of hardware, which they wanted to support Honeycomb, so had to then switch to Ventana instead.
[G Tablet General] y2k-inc:
Maybe it's not nVidia to unpluged the "old" tegra but it's Google who is behind it?

Please read on and voice your opinion to ALL direction if necessary ...

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/04/12/nvidia_ventana_android_honeycomb/

I guess Google just want to be in Apple shoes ...:confused:

more new is not a good new ...

http://www.androidcentral.com/nvidia-stop-supporting-harmony-platform-past-froyo

and i quote

I guess it's time to go buying the iPad ;)
[G Tablet General] Isira:
I also took the fight to reddit.
[G Tablet General] Tostino:
Oh did Notion Ink switch? I thought they were on Harmony as well.
[G Tablet General] cd112:
Same here.. I have emailed support, Dev group and posted on tweet.. We need Honeycomb on Gtablet.. This is not right..
[G Tablet General] skoodog:
Just sent a tip to engadget regarding this story - my text:

I sourced the nvidia dev thread and this thread as well.
[G Tablet General] tarponbeach:
I agree, they need to offer more than they are currently offering
[G Tablet General] bso44:
Bruce Chan

Product PR

Tegra and Handheld Products

bchan@nvidia.com

+1 (408) 562 7596
[G Tablet General] snapz54:
http://www.androidcentral.com/nvidia-stop-supporting-harmony-platform-past-froyo

we made android central, good job folks...
[G Tablet General] bso44:
You forgot the most relevant/important contact:

Bruce Chan

Product PR

Tegra and Handheld Products

bchan@nvidia.com

+1 (408) 562 7596
[G Tablet General] RyuFDAC01:
I whole heartedly agree... I know there is a tweet going around, however thought I would post what I tweeted... I think nvidia needs to know that their future products are at stake, and that lack of support for devices not out may be a possibility. ...thus influencing their financial goals

@nvidia states no support for harmony platform no Android2.3/ 3.0 ever.Worries over device support for future tegra2 devices(harmonyistegra2)

Make changes to this ...let your voices be heard
[G Tablet General] bso44:
Also, please make sure to register and post in this thread.

http://developer.nvidia.com/tegra/forum/honeycomb-harmony

OP - Might want to put this in your post as well.
[G Tablet General] snapz54:
please use one of the hashtags

#nvidiaFail

#Tegra2Fail

these companies have twitter consultants that tell them trending is bad when it's bad. be careful
[G Tablet General] roebeet:
They claim that it has "Ventana" pieces in it - but I really don't know what that means. AFAIK, their board is a Harmony board.
[G Tablet General] snapz54:
Oh, I just read it...

we got press, but not exactly support. Just a different viewpoint.
[G Tablet General] jerdog:
They're not abandoning their Tegra2 line - they are no longer providing software support for their Harmony line of the Tegra2 (http://www.androidcentral.com/nvidia-stop-supporting-harmony-platform-past-froyo). This device is over a year old....

And to the other post above, definitely a different practice than their other products - but it's also a different world and they have to figure out how to work within it. Hopefully they figure out how to provide better support going forward....
[G Tablet General] Version_3:
I clicked thanks instead of quoting. Have a free one I suppose.

I think that article highlights something everyone seems to have forgotten. I don't think VS or nvidia are to blame. Most of the Harmony tablets are crud. It wasn't until Xoom/Ventana came around that Google visibly supported a tablet. Now with more coming out on different platforms that are from reputable hardware makers, they pressure is on and development starts dropping on the older stuff in order to maintain that relationship and blessing from the overlords (Google) so companies can use the Android source.

I think the news sucks, but thanks to the devs here, my Gtablet is still more usable than stock for my desires, regardless if there will be further updates.
[G Tablet General] stilgar27:
In one fairly biased article I read Samsung/Apple claiming their A7's GPU outperformed tegra 2 by some 400+% (45 to 11)...... Of course doing a little digging you found that they were basically comparing it to a Tegra system without full hardware support, but it was enough to send raving apple fanboys, well raving about apple's superiority as always.

Even within the article however, they admitted that it was nearly impossible to accurately compare Apples and Oranges (or Tegras). They also admitted that using the same system, the 1.5 year older tegra 2 beat the Ipad 2 in most of the other benchmarks by a good 25% margin. I also found a later article on the same site comparing the Atrix to the IPad2 and the same GPU benchmark came out nearly even (45 to 44).

The sad reality here though is that I simply don't believe in benchmarks any more and neither should you. Something designed to give us clear comparative information has become a clouded arena of fuzzy math and fanboyism. Instead I just rely on real world feedback.

It's not hard to see that the Tegra 2 line is at least on par than the Ipad2 in most real world applications, even with some severe software woes. But Even if the Ipad2's GPU were 400+% at the moment you'd not likely see that exploited effectively within the products expected lifespan (14-18 months?). As any PC gamer will tell you, software is much slower to evolve than hardware.

Not that GPU hardware really matters that much in the end anyway. I mean look at the Wii.
[G Tablet General] Mrhorology:
Everyone also use hashtag #Tegragate
[G Tablet General] Mrhorology:
Guys also use hashtag #Tegragate
[G Tablet General] sigvader:
+1:) I feel the same way I so hope for a little more support but I am very happy with what I have on it now thanks to the devs

...specifically roebeet:D
[G Tablet General] life02:
Nvidia = fail

K I'm sending this to many blogs and news outlets to try to get the word out:

NVIDIA is dropping driver support from the Tegra 2 harmony platform. Many devices with the Tegra 2 chipset were released just this year. The platform had a very short lifespan and without support or at least open source drivers from NVIDIA, there will be no further android updates beyond Froyo on these devices. Please help get the word out.

Here is the quote from NVIDIA when asked about Harmony Honeycomb support (http://developer.nvidia.com/tegra/forum/honeycomb-harmony):

NVIDIA is only supporting the Ventana platform for android releases going forward. At the moment we have released Froyo and Gingerbread OS images for Ventana and will release Honeycomb after Google has done so.

Andrew Edelsten

Tegra Developer Relations

NVIDIA Corporation
[G Tablet General] davidukfl:
I emailed viewsonic/us-merchants asking about any future updates and i got a response back from Jeff Green (US merch) today saying they will be releasing a new update tomorrow that will fix any UI lag and slowness (which is what i had inquired about, asking if that would be fixed in future updates)