yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Venue Pro General] bbowman:
I agree 100% with this post. People take the time to complain online about their purchases way frequently than to praise them. There have been issues with the DVP but my feeling is that we have been reading about issues from a vocal minority. My 8gb DVP works flawlessly with WiFi on 24/7 and has been the most reliable smart phone I have ever owned.

I could be wrong but I wonder if the typical DVP user is more tech-savvy than the average smart phone user. It would make sense that those with problematic DVPs would head to the XDAs of the world to voice their complaints and ask for help.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
I think the Dell's problems are different. The first problems were an inability to read SIM cards and wifi connection issues. We then moved to ordering problems with Dell reps being completely ignorant that the device existed. Then we went to delivery issues, and after all that and revieving the phones we then found crashing issues (mainly the 16GB), abysmal camera and poor reception.

The icing on the cake was Dell first of all denying there was a problem and sending out the same faulty devices as replacements, then eventually when they admitted (unofficially mind you, there is no official communication from Dell on the issues) they give vague timelines and virtually no guidance on when a fix will be available or what it contains.

Other phones may have problems, but the Dell goes beyond just a faulty device. I dont know whats wrong with the Thunderbold but at least with the Storm it was pulled then re-released with at least some attempt to fix the issues. Dell has continued to sell faulty devices for months, blatantly ignoring that these devices are faulty. We've had reports from UK and Indian users with the same problems as we've had and the fix is the same - change to another card and your problems go away. When a company ignores problems with a device, provides no fix and sells them as if they work as advertised, do you really think any carrier would want to carry that company's device?

And you are wrong about one thing. The reason I got the Dell was because I though it was the best designed and unique of all the WP7 device, from way back when it was leaked I said this was the device for me. In the first few weeks of owning it I said many times I thought this was the best WP7 device, if the bugs were fixed. Just a number of weeks ago when Lionel said the patch was upcoming I posted that it would make the Dell the best WP7 device. The problem is they have NOT been fixed and no matter how much I like the construction, form factor, design the overall experience with this phone has been negative and that is the only honest assessment I can give of this device. It stands alone among the current WP7 devices as having a reputation for being inherently faulty.

The Dell is a well designed, constructed but poorly executed phone from the hardware components to the support from Dell and it should be recalled until all these bugs are fixed and then relaunched. Then, and only then can it rightly be praised for the positives it does obviously have.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
And this is the common response from someone with the 8GB version. Somehow those of us with problems are invalidated because we are supposedly in the minority. Yet when you look across the other WP7 device with 8GB you will see that the amount of storage is a common complaint, in fact even where there is a 16GB option people are looking for more storage. How about the iphone 4 grip problem, was that also just a problem for a vocal minority? A lot of people said they had no problem, but did that mean the problem did not exist for others?

Sorry, but after 3 device swaps personally and several other users who have done the same the problem IS real and has not been address, so unless the money I paid was somehow invalid I have a legit claim to a working device.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
I'm sorry, but I think the statement " typical response" is out of line. I agree people should complain. I agree people have the right to get what they pay for. But thousands of posts from dozens of people do not confirm a problem. Has Dell denied or lied about anything, or, is the interpretation of their actions mis read or misspoke by one of the dozens of posters? In one thread a poster will say Dell support sucks. In another thread the same poster will say Dell support says a fix is coming. From disbelief to blind acceptance in 20 minutes.

I am not denying problems, or any of the problems that anyone has. But lie, cheat, steal, deny are leaps I won't use. And people that do not see the problems should not be laughed at like they're stupid...just as you should be accepted for the problems you see.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
Who's laughing at anyone? Did I imply anyone was stupid? The problem is users who dont have a problem dismiss those that do. Our experience is deemed worthless because they dont experience the problems. I swapped my DVP 3 times, doesnt that tell you there is a problem with the phone? I didnt invent that, I still have the Dell packing slips, 4 in total. Why would I go through that for a phone that was working fine? Whether its the card or otherwise, the problem exists.

And Dell did deny there was a problem initially when people would call up, and would just suggest a replacement. Now they have changed their tune and say an update is coming.

And I said "common", not typical, to differentiate that it applies to some, but not all 8GB users. How is that out of line? Its almost as if by reporting problems with our devices we are somehow making their's worse or something, like we are invaders in the Eutopia that is the dell venue pro.

Funny thing is most of the problems are now gone for me with the class 2 Sandisk but that doesnt detract from the fact that there is a problem with this device and to try and suggest that the problems I've experienced over the last 5 months are either figments of my imagination or irrelevant is uncalled for.

I wonder why those without problems see fit to belittle those that do have them, would it be ok to challenge them everytime they state how the device is working well for them?
[Venue Pro General] erebusting:
Do you all expect a fix to actually be released? I am frustrated and considering what other actions I can take for this...

law suit?

sell my DVP and get an HD7 (the only other wp7 device on TMO)...

-I love the AMOLED screen though....

damn if only these bugs were fixed then I would really like this phone...
[Venue Pro General] bbowman:
where have you been belittled? in no way am I here to dismiss those who have problems. the only thing i'm questioning is whether or not the majority of DVPs (16gb models, more specifically) are faulty. many are, we all know that, but I wonder if there a silent majority out there who are happily using their 16gb models.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
Yeah...this is my thought also. How do we know how many Dells were sold? How do we know that 2/3rds of the sales were not 8gs. What if they only sold 500 16g and 5000 8g?

At this stage in the game, for someone to say I have an 8g and have no problems...is probably not a useful statement, especially to a 16g owner who does. I am a 16g owner who has had some, but not all the problems others have had. Not enough to threaten lawsuits etc. My phone never did not work. It only did not work as well as I thought it should. Like efjay, a 32g card did the trick for me. But many 16g problem device holders cannot get a 32g card or are not willing ot void the warrenty. Thats ok.

I'm only saying, my personal opinion is, the majority of those people with problems, are in the minority of people who purchased the Dell. It does not diminish the issues or their problems. Thats an opinion...my opinion. After 4+ years of being on XDA, watching releases of many phones...owning quite a few myself. Seeing responses to people to problems, seeing the claims, the lies, the cheaters....I prefer right now to say....my Dell is working the way I expected it to when I purchased it. I have 7392, I have FW 206, I have a 32g card. I have run an early copy of the next MS update on this phone....and an early copy of the Mango beta. This phone rocks for me now...and it will rock even more in the future. But even with that....people will still line up and say...something is not working for them. I will accept that...look for it on my device...I'll think about it. I'll use contacts I have to try and track it down. But I simply wont say that Dell is a lying cheat and should be sued to no end....sorry....
[Venue Pro General] cdgoin:
I REALLY think a lot of the problem with the 16GB versions was with the card. I swapped my 8GB to a 16GB card and have had no problems.

In the 5 sets I have had, only one was a lockup issue and I use WiFi all the time. The other 4 were for the lint issue under the screen. If they will keep swapping me phones every month when I get lint under the screen (And thus give me a new phone with no scratches, etc..) the who am I to complain.. as I abuse the heck out of my phones.

That all said I would LOVE to see a similar form factor in a HTC phone.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
HTC had the Touch Dual. I loved that phone. My son n law has it now. When the Dell came out I was ....this is my phone!. Unfortunately the Dell came out almost 2 months after the HD7....so I used hte HD7 until the Dell arrived and handed the HD7 over to the GF. Of the 2, I prefer the Dell. Because of form factor and coolness. Between Dell and HTC I prefer HTC. Always have...perhaps always will. My favorite new era HTC phone prior to WP7 was the HD2. When the HD2 came along, I stopped buying phones. I usually buy a new phone every 2-3 months. After the HD2 my next phone was the HD7. My expenses for phones has dropped in the last year with the HD2, HD7 and Dell.
[Venue Pro General] theusername:
Personally, I have two 16GB DVP's and I have never had an issue with either one! And when Im home, I use WiFi and the phones still run beautifully. I think that easily more than half of the phones work without issues, but that there are a hand full of people that do have bugs with thier phones. I would be willing to bet that Dell will have and update out to fix the bugs soon. Im not sure about this month (namely the 18th), but soon.
[Venue Pro General] venelar:
Not to derail the thread, but that is my backup phone. such a cool device and was quite unique in its prime!
[Venue Pro General] domineus:
oh I can assure you, its far more than a few

you are sadly in the minority by having a device that works

secondly the issues of the dvp have occurred since december - i think people have the right to be upset
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
not trying to be contrary...but, how can you assure me? You work for Dell and have the numbers? :eek: or do you have another source....besides support forums?
[Venue Pro General] jessej:
I see your 2 working ones and raise you 8 non-working ones.
[Venue Pro General] jessej:
Sorry for the comment,

After 8 phones and countless hours speaking with the (generally excellent and understanding) Dell Mobility team, I am being issued a refund. My initial request was for a different SQU but the 32 gig phone is not in the Dell Mobility support system. They can access the SQU but it is only active for the sales team at this moment. (Thanks go to James for pressuring his supervisor)

My expereince with this phone has been a rollercoaster of a ride. After pre-ordering the device and having the first one be a lemon, I had high hopes for the second one. Unfortunately the second one was no better. I then got one that was pretty decent, until it decided to crash and start factory resetting on me. The next two were real winners, one was DOA with 15.7 megs of memory the next was horrible but was around the time that Dell Mobility had been told no exchanges for freezing were allowed (this was a nightmare of a phone because they literally could not do anything for freezing at this time). The next one was okay but began hard freezing over 3G after a couple of weeks.

I was then issued a phone that included the updated firmware. Initial impression of the phone was that device speed had been increased by a good amount, camera performance while not better was much more forgiving. (This is actually a pretty good firmware update). Unfortunately, this update does not resolve the main issue with this phone (freezing).

What it does is change the behavior of the initial "freeze". The phone will now let you force your way back to the home screen by pressing the windows key. It will then appear to straighten itself out but trying to access any of the programs will result in a loading screen and kick back to the home screen. After the initial kick back, it was my expereince that the phone would generally allow one more attempt to access a program and then hard freeze.

I will miss the exceptional form factor of the device, the stunning physical build quality and the overall appearance of the phone. I will not miss the countless freezes, hard resets and sound dropping completely out on phone calls (only my end and requires a factory reset). If there is ever an update released that actually addresses the freezing issues or if the 32 gig phones are confirmed 100% as working I may take another chance on this phone simply because I love the physical device. In the mean time, I am taking suggestions for new phones...
[Venue Pro General] domineus:
personal experience

and even the CS reps say there are a lot of issues with the phone

ask for supervisor regina she will tell you the most of the calls are from disgrunted people with the dvps

even the mobile supervisors knows, the boards know, the chief blogger lionel@dell knows...I'm pretty sure its fairly reasonable knowledge that at least Americans got screwed

That said I have a new dvp with the new firmware and it still freezes on wifi...
[Venue Pro General] cdgoin:
I was the same way until the Dash 3G.. still love HTC. Wish they would make a Dash 4G with a bigger screen (ALA the HTC Trophy prototype not the current WP7 phone).

The dual wouldnt work for me as I have to have a full QWERTY keyboard. My big fingers just cant type on a touch screen..

Love my DVP, that I probably won't upgrade until a 4G Mango phone with a QWERTY keyboard hits the market.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
Nah man....that doesn't count. 99.9% or better, of the people that call support, are calling for a problem. You ask a support person what they think, they will tell you, Problem. No one calls support to say Hi.

A few of the people that come here, will tell you they do not see the problems others do. If the Dell was flat out bad....all would be bad. If WiFi was 100% an issue, 100% of the people would see it. I never turn my WiFi off...I do not see it.

I pull my battery once a day. I have done this with all phones...since I started buying phones.

I even run with my Bluetooth on all the time. I don't normally do this, but I'm testing to see if that is an issue...plus I got the Jabra Cruiser and wanted to check on conectivity.

Sometimes, maybe 1 in 20, I tap an app and it does not start. But thats no different than any other phone.

The only reason I don't come out and say you guys are imagining these problems is, I've had 3 Dells. 1 I dropped and broke. That phone did exhibit some lag...but not to the extent thats been reported. My 2nd phone was horrible. Through a friend it was loaned to MS for a month. When they finished with it, they ordered me a 'Stock' replacement. The replacement was dated 1/31/2011, had the stock firmware and everything else. The SD card looked to be the same as the one in the dropped broken phone. With a new phone I always do hte same thing....hard reset it a couple of times.....old habit from flashing ROMs. I loaded 7008, 7390 and 7392. My friend at MS flashed the new firmware for me.....206. That was a month ago(?). That is the only concession I have that is not stock, other than a 32g card I installed. The phone works fine. No WiFi hangs, freezes, locks. All calls come in.....no worries. Bluetooth works. Sound is loud. Music plays. I have refrained from dropping my phone. :rolleyes:

If the phone was flat out bad....how could I get one that performs the way mine does? If its luck of the draw, then that proves that not all are bad. Maybe it was batch that was bad....who knows.

But we're just talking symantics now. You've had 5 bad phones....so the phone is bad. I have not...so I don't think the same. :o
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
Yes we are all imagining it:

http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/dell-still-shipping-defective-venue-pro-phones

http://anythingbutiphone.com/1016

http://anythingbutiphone.com/901#more-901

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/mobile-devices/f/3824/t/19358469.aspx

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=891295
[Venue Pro General] MrAdelphi02:
In order to have both of your (valid) points answered, the actual numbers of the DVP's sold and the % returned or defective would need to be ascertained.

The amount sold in England, i can't imagine it to be high as i've not seen it advertised or in any shops, you can only get it online and most people here don't buy phones outright, but get phone contracts.

Unfortunately, Dell (or anyone else for that matter) are not likely to show this because it would be pointing out their own problem, and are far as Dell is concerned the less it is talked about, the better.

Whether every phone is a non-working phone or it is just a small minority of phones is hard to say, but from personal experience it does seem as if many phones are disfunctional.

The forums here, at Dell and many other websites are all consistantly saying the same things regarding faults.

I imagine that the people who do have the phone either dont have any faults (mainly 8gb version), have minor faults (hardly use wifi), have major faults (phoned Dell, and told to keep phone and wait for firmware fix) or have given the phone back.

I would love to see the actual amount of phones sold, and the amount of the phones that have been reported as faulty and/or the amount of phones returned.

For me personally, I bought the 16gb from Dell, got a refund as the phone was unusable. Then got the 8gb version, which was slightly better but still very bad, then swapped the 8gb class 4 memory card for a class 2, 32gb sandisk, now the phone works flawlessly.
[Venue Pro General] Mann_Kel:
Just to add my experience, I am on my second DVP and its a 16gig, same issues as my first. WiFi crashes constantly if I have the phone almost full of storage and WiFi on. Network issues with 3G so I only use edge and if the phone storage is closer to empty I crash with WiFi on only once every few days. In other words if I keep my phone empty and on edge its pretty stable. Of course I would like to have those features so I'm working on a replacement from Dell with firmware update.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
ah man, I'm not saying you're imagining it. I'm just saying I don't see it. The guy around the corner doesn't either. My buddy down the street doesn't either. Why not? Bad batches of cards? Pure luck...should i run to Vegas? I played your video and many others over and over again. This does not happen to many of us. Why not?
[Venue Pro General] DeekoVB5:
So...tomorrow's the big day huh...anyone actually expecting an update notification?
[Venue Pro General] Yagi:
I wouldn't hold my breath.
[Venue Pro General] deepz:
tooo late..i am already holding my breath and i am turning blue...it better come outt
[Venue Pro General] erebusting:
lmfao I was gonna say the same thing! and also the same as the person below you: "dont hold your breath" lol....
[Venue Pro General] hipzilla:
I've got my fingers crossed.

Off topic, but do you think we'll get WiFi calling on the DVP? My T-Mobile rep called me the other day to tell me that I should add that to my plan, but when I told her I had a DVP she gave me a "Huh?" action over the phone. A quick Google says it's Android only devices right now, but I think that would be a great feature to have available on my DVP when WiFi crashing is fixed. That's actually a big enough feature that I may consider dropping the DVP altogether for an Android phone.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
No need to switch to android, with MS now owning Skype you can expect to be making wifi calls on your DVP without any carrier inteference in the future.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
yeah, didn't they promise a Skype app by fall? On mango for sure
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
The previous updates, though MS controlled, were released on Tuesday's at 10am Pacific time.

The fact that today is Wednesday, should be a first hint.

I'm hoping though....
[Venue Pro General] Yagi:
Breaking News! Dell lied again! Shocker!

Well it's now 1:30 EST and there's no update. As previously stated they're usually released at 1 EST and I think it's safe to assume Microsoft would be pushing out this update. Dell has forever lost my business.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
Today's update was just a rumour so wasnt expecting it to actually be released, at the same time Dell obviously isnt supporting this phone so its really no surprise they continue to ignore it.
[Venue Pro General] Yagi:
I know it was a rumor, but I was actually told by Dell Mobility that it would be today and a few others. Ugh.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
Did they volunteer the date themselves when you called? That obviously makes a difference if Dell themselves were claiming this date but either way, the support we are getting is pathetic.
[Venue Pro General] Yagi:
I called them telling them the problems I've been having and they said May 18 they will release an update to fix the issues. I then told them I didn't want to wait and wanted a replacement phone and they said since the update was coming they wouldn't replace my phone. I plan on raising holy hell with tonight!
[Venue Pro General] Shoot2ill:
Lol. Did you happen to mention that TODAY is May 18? If so, what was their response? Is this update going to hit our phones or are we going to have to download some sort of update tool from Dell's website?
[Venue Pro General] domineus:
...

so lemme see if i grab this

just because you don't have a bad device then it must mean that no one else does? because that logic is so small minded its not even funny

you and a few friends don't see it? But there are more than enough people that do. There are more than enough people at dell stating a new f/w update to address issues that only a few users have...

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight >.>
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
Just called the Dell mobility number, latest excuse - their systems went down 2 hours ago and they cant give any information on the update. Convenient, right?

Any lawyers in the house?
[Venue Pro General] youkdxp:
:( We are waiting for ...................... may need call MS
[Venue Pro General] hipzilla:
I called about an hour ago wanting to put in a warranty claim to have my phone replaced again and was told that the update was still "coming soon" and that they still can't (or won't) swap phones for WiFi crashing. I've spoken to this particular tech a few times now and while she is awesome I am getting really pissed about this "coming soon" nonsense.

6 months into my warranty and I have only been able to swap my phone once (for hardware keyboard issue at that; I've been stonewalled on WiFi swaps every time) despite it crashing every time it's on WiFi. Dell convinced me not to return my phone for a refund when I had the chance as a fix was "coming soon". When Dell eventually fixes this issue they really should extend our warranties as well.
[Venue Pro General] mechmouni:
I called them only to hear that the update is "Already" rolled out!!!!

It costs me an international call to cal mobility service...

Can somebody confirm this please...
[Venue Pro General] AlexMinsk:
Give me the number and I'll call
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
Probably talking about the OS updates from MS. Another example of how clueless dell is.