yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] arturobandini:
My God... To me Bing Maps is one of the major weak point of WP7, which indeed sometimes makes me regret I did not chose Android.

But it's only MS' fault if Bing Maps is such a crappy app outside UK and the US. I don't even know if MS really realize how pathetic the service can be in my country. It's definitely a shame.
[Windows Phone 7 General] pasp1001:
yes i know and i agree 100%- bing maps is useless piece of zhit for many(me included)

i was just being sarcastic for the google-haters, cause frankly the truth need to be told

MS- DOESNT WANT GMAPS
[Windows Phone 7 General] Peew971:
Guys, remember Bing maps will improve once they integrate Nokia's Ovi maps as that's part of their deal. But like most things WP7 I don't think it will come until at least a year from now.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
My jaw continues to drop...

First of all, it's only for HTC phones. Dell, Samsung, and LG devices don't have that app.

Secondly, there is still a functionality gap between and Google [Android] YouTube Apps. Not sure what Microsoft has in store, but I can't imagine it would be any worse than what HTC put out.

Perhaps they should use this time to deliver to us a decent WLM Client?

The issue Microsoft are having with Google are probably similar to the issues they had with Twitter that stopped them from delivering Twitter in People Hub to us on release (yet Samsung was interestingly able to integrate it into Samsung Social Hub... these things continue to baffle me).

There is also word going around that Google is intentionally being slow authorizing Android phones that are being released with Microsoft Bing as the default search... BTW...
[Windows Phone 7 General] quactaur:
Unless the jurisdiction's competition law considers quality of access as well as access. Which the EU and USA both do.

If I stop you from listing your goods on an online marketplace in categories because you are my competitor, but do let you list them untagged, will I be liable? Certainly.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Bad analogy.

You should perhaps read the complete article/letter in the second link of the OP.

It's no surprise that Google is quite anti-competitive, and for those complaining about Bing Maps, understand that Bing is funded by Ad Revenue for the most part (from the Search Engine) and in Europe Google has 95% of the Search Market. Since Google is so dominant in Europe, it means Bing Maps in Europe will not be as good as in the US/UK because the funding from Europe is terribad compared to the US - thanks to Google.

I think it's about time the Government does what it should have done a long time ago and classify Google as a Monopoly in the Search Market...

If Microsoft was doing this, regulators would be calling for their heads.
[Windows Phone 7 General] domineus:
Rumor doesn't really surprise me. Hi google, you're the big brother Microsoft couldn't be
[Windows Phone 7 General] pfranceschi:
There is definitely something that Google is preventing Microsoft from doing correctly. If you take a look at any Microsoft app, it is at least pretty and it works. The Youtube app is just as ugly as it can be. There is no obvious explanation to this other that MS vs Google.

As for a decent WLM app, I am almost sure they already have it, its just a matter of getting multitasking out there first. No multitasking, no chat is worthy.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
1. The XAP requires you to hack the **** out of your phone. Does not compute. You can't get it from Marketplace on other devices and a lot of the other YouTube apps actually violate YouTube ToS and can be pulled from Marketplace at any time (and many of them cost money on top of that).

2. Yes. We can say that Microsoft wants to provide a YouTube experience equivalent to, or superior to what Google offers for Android - albeit for WP7. They probably want to integrate YouTube into the Camera Function (Quick Upload to YouTube), People Hub (Comments, Star Rating, etc.) and Zune (Music and Videos) Hub (to Allow easy searching and Ratings from there).

How do you think Google would take it if Microsoft intentionally broke their application on Windows. If I recall correctly, that was part of the Microsoft Anti-Trust case... A particular incident from Windows 3.1 where Microsoft made it not work correctly if it was installed on top of DR-DOS... Looking for Source............

Here, in the "Competition from Microsoft" Section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR-DOS

3. Miyowa isn't the Official MSN Client. A Microsoft Exec said in an interview that WLM is coming, but he was not giving any date for it. Messenger by Miyowa is about as Official a WLM client as the Microsoft Facebook app is an Official Facebook Application. When we say Official, we mean first party - like the WLM App for iOS, from Microsoft.

4. We know this. Samsung is not a Search Market competitor. That's the point the Blog post points out. Microsoft gets unfavorable treatment because they compete with Google. Other entities do not. An HTC App is inferior to an integrated YouTube experience on an OS. It's like suggesting Android users use ActiveSync to Sync their Mail/Contacts/Calendar and the Web Browser to Access YouTube there. Idiotic. Google's behavior is transparent here.

I like how you didn't comment on my last statement.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
There is absolutely nothing stopping Microsoft from contracting this out, or even starting a new corporation just for this app.

BTW Google is taking Android closer to closed source. Honeycomb is just the start, only top tier OEMs can have it and only with approved modification.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
That Blog Post is from a Microsoft Exec.

Secondly, Microsoft will not contract out an App that Hooks deeply into the base Windows Subsystem. They contracted out Facebook for WP7, they did not Contract out the Facebook/Twitter integration in People Hub, for example.

Start a new corporation just for this app?

How about Google provide equal treatment to all entities that want to access its service? Weren't the the ones that got all pissy cause Facebook didn't want them to access their data and blocked Facebook connect?

Why didn't Google contract it out or start a new corporation for it?

Google loves to play the "Information should be Open and customers should be have full information portability excuse only when it benefits them, apparently.

So, Google should be allowed to insure that you have a subpar YouTube experience/integration simply because you use a WP7 device? Lol... The Regulators will take care of this, and after Europe does their thing it will immediately be brought to the attention of the US regulartors...
[Windows Phone 7 General] mwako:
Wouldn't have anything to do with the social search partnership that Facebook and Microsoft’s Bing announced last fall lol

;)

Google just got SLAPPED in the face by MS and FB tbh and also with FB banning google from using google ads on FB *loads of fun*... wait for +1 they are trying to say is the next FB XD

Just another slap fight tbh between large corps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf_XpLOYfog

Would i bend over backwards or release apps ASAP for a client who keeps shafting me behind my back?

Simple answer.....No
[Windows Phone 7 General] jazzjunkz:
Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft haven't got their priorities straight here?

Fair enough Google are getting all buddy-buddy with Open Source (Android) and masking Microsoft from using YouTube.

But what about WLM? Their own product/service? It's terrible. Arguably people are looking elsewhere into communicating online, facebook/skype etc - but considering there is no implementation of this on WP7 already, they should atleast use their own service, surely?

Concluding, give us Facebook Chat integration or a GOOD WLM app. Sort yourselves out Microsoft before you start eyeing up what the competition can't provide.

/2cents.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Giving Google even more of the market doesn't really help the market. I'm sure they can strike a deal with MySpace, though!
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
You're confusing the WLM Service with a WLM App. They aren't synonymous. The service is good. That app (Miyowa), is not. Microsoft is most likely waiting for the Lync WP7 client, though... That way they don't need to have a redundant consumer/business communication application, but one that serves both purposes on the device - and likely integrated quite deeply as well (as in, Always on like Google Talk/BBM with Push Notifications and Presence Information in the Contact List, Contact Merging, etc.).

Messenger by Miyowa gets the job done, I just want a system-integrated Messenger App that stays logged in in the Background (like Google Talk) and offers Push Notifications. I also want the People tile to be live (# of new status updates and/or messages - make it a Rectangle, IMO) and Presence information in the contact list with Contact merging like Windows Live for Windows Mobile.

Also, Microsoft do not have their priorities messed up. Most people on mobile phones will just SMS, anyways. A great YouTube Experience that is not exclusive to one phone manufacturer barring phone hacks is very important for a mobile platform. YouTube is THAT important. That is why Apple made sure to have a decent YouTube App, even though they do not support Adobe Flash.

Trust me, Good YouTube experience is more important than FB or WLM IM on a mobile phone people can just SMS on to begin with. Most people you chat with often on FB, you most likely have a phone number for anyways (unless you're one of those creepy people who friend any and everything on the internet :P).
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
And the fact that they even have to do that in the first place doesn't bother you? How would google like to start a new corporation if MS for examples pull exchange from Google?
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Lol. Google will get reigned in sooner than later, IMO...

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-android-2011-3
[Windows Phone 7 General] mwako:
I'm kinda happy, More Competition finally in the Smartphone Market.

It's normally down to a few people high up saying "we shouldn't do this" they upset another company accidentally *or not*...

Then Whoops, They forgot to include you on the next big thing ¬.¬
[Windows Phone 7 General] amtrakcn:
Anyway, I want a fully functional YouTube app on WP7. Too bad if it's Google preventing it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
The lawsuit isn't just about WP7 YouTube app, it's also about access to video metadata for Bing search engine.

I think it's in the interest of Google themselves that they get slammed by some court, and I'm not talking about some funny $150,000 fine. I think they are starting to feel a little to omnipotent for their own good. If they "progress" the way they are doing now, five years down the road some court ruling may become a real disaster for them, like it was for MS.

My jaw really dropped when I saw this. Do no evil my ass.
[Windows Phone 7 General] arturobandini:
You are probably partly right.

But actually I don't know what comes first: Are funding from Europe bad compared to the US because Bing search engine is not as competitive and efficient as the Google one unfortunately (in France, for instance, Bing results are often totally not relevant), or is it the contrary, i.e. Bing is not competitive in Europe because it is an outsider and lacks of fundings?.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
What are you talking about? The thread is about a company stifling competition, not facilitating it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
that was meant for someone up thread. XDA is having capacity issues so posts aren't showing up like they should. That reply was meant for mw.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Actually, THAT I welcome wholeheartedly. If some OEM took all the talk about openness as a value for truth, they are idiots, and idiocy should be punished.

I never thought Google would have the guts to do it, and I applaud their decision, if it's not a rumor.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andycted:
I'd gladly see google slapped with a similar lawsuit and 10 year destruction sentence as the one Microsoft endured for the last 10 years. Actually they're already being slapped with lawsuits left and right and when I saw the Oracle/Sun/Java business I screamed in horror, but then thought android deserves that.

They've starting showing their true face. "Don't be evil" was used until it was useful and easy to implement (it's easy to be good if you're a small player and you win lots of sympathies).

Microsoft always had the same face, which you might not like, but at least it's just that.

The only reason I don't regret having made buy lots of androids to my friends is that they would have bought ifones.

It's also interesting seeing people in the microsoft section trying to defend android. The opposite happens to a very very lower degree in android sections. Microsoft doesn't generates the same passion as ios and android and I love it because of that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
You didn't read it fully... Take the blinders off for a minute, and read it again...

1. Google wants to vet deals with other entities: This is to block OEMs from putting Bing (And perhaps Yahoo!, which has a partnership with Bing) on Android phones.

2. Google is holding up Android Phones that ship with Bing as the default search provider. Microsoft didn't seem to have an issue with Carriers setting the Default Browser Address Bar/Contextual Search Button search to Google (i.e. HTC HD7 T-Mobile) on WP7 devices, and they certainly didn't hold them up for updates or release...

3. Google is obviously targetting Facebook, which competes head to head with them in Targetted Ads, is kicking their ass in the Social Networking market, and which Microsoft has a sizeable stake in. Facebook also has a deal with Microsoft Bing and Office Web Apps - as well as first class integration in some Microsoft Products like Windows Live Messenger and WP7.

4. Google is denying Microsoft permission to access YouTube in a way similar to the Android/iPhone (and seemingly, many third party) Applications - Apparently they have a great YouTube app ready to release for WP7, but cannot release it because Google is denying permission.

I think the Anti-Fragmentation clause sounds like a good idea.

But a lot of that seems to stem from Google's will to not want to compete with competitors on the Android platform. They want all the mined data and revenue from Android, and want to make sure they get a leg up on Facebook on Facebook's own device (Lol!).

All that other **** seems like cruft to cloak their true intentions.

Microsoft should have denied Marketplace access to their ****ty Google search App, but then Google would have run to the DoJ with a snotty nose...

That's not to mention all the the other lawsuits brought on, like Google strongarming Motorola to use their location data instead of a competitors (and apparently Samsung) or they would fall out of favor IRT access to Android source code (if you don't have early access, you're fvcked... ever wonder why Dell's Android phones always shipped with ridiculously old versions of Android on them? Yea, there's your answer...).

Taking all that into perspective... Nokia's decision to go with WP7 is a smart one. Samsung not killing off Bada is a smart one. HP buying Palm was very smart, as was RIM buying QNX. Motorola is rumored to be thinking about developing their own smartphone platform... I say they should just go ahead and make some Windows Phones, but Google may not like that :P

In the end, it may end up with Nokia as Microsoft premier hardware partner. Moto as Google's. RIM with their QNX BBOS. HP with Palm. And Samsung/SE/Dell sort of playing the field.

And of course Apple has their iOS/iDevices :P
[Windows Phone 7 General] mwako:
N8ter, I was the same as you replying to a previous post that is now out of context as it's off the page it's meant to be on because of the site down time.

All i was saying is with more smartphones is more choice.... Company's won't have long like MS did as Google is doing... before they get SLAPPED for it if they keep at this pace....and regret it if it's like MS got.

*Taking all that into perspective... Nokia's decision to go with WP7 is a smart one. Samsung not killing off Bada is a smart one. HP buying Palm was very smart, as was RIM buying QNX. Motorola is rumored to be thinking about developing their own smartphone platform... I say they should just go ahead and make some Windows Phones, but Google may not like that :P*

- i agree as said in my previous post "more competition to choose from is good, if company's forget that choice we make then f them", i'm still with MS because i "like" the products they make. i don't have enough experience with android to even comment on it as a product, i mealy say. more competition, features, functions, choice...is good for me....... as i will look for what works for me. If Google focus on locking everything down. then thats not gonna work for me when i make a choice for my next phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
You're telling me Microsoft couldn't purchase LazyWorms? You're telling me they couldn't purchase any of the other developers?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Yes, I agree, there's more than just the anti-fragmentation clause per se. Yet preventing "partners" from pre-installing Bing makes sense regardless of whether Google is evil or not - it's their main (if not the only) source of revenue. This isn't pro-competitive, sure as hell, but I don't see that as such a dirty trick. On the other hand, MS was punished for this...

I'm not so sure about the HP/Palm thing. Nokia didn't do poorly in terms of Symbian sales - for commodity platforms such as WP7, WM, Symbian, Android, Bada or WebOS there's not much difference in terms of sales per device, apart from a handful of hits such as SGS. So basically you need to either manufacture a ton of devices, or constantly make winner handsets, or have some very specific niche like RIM. And then you have the Nokia problem - with the pace of development accelerating and companies like Apple, Google and even Microsoft heating the software competition up, your R&D costs can only go up, so the situation will worsen for standalone OS developers. All those development billions are spread between OEMs in the case of multi-OEM platforms, but you have to assume 100% of them if you are a standalone manufacturer. Samsung's job is a bit easier because they have a lot of power in the distribution and can put any of the phones they want on every retail shelf in the world in no time. HP doesn't have that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Put it all into perspective...

Firstly the partnership issue is wrong. Google is using their licensing power to stop competitors from competing on their platform. With that power, Google can stop any OEM from working with any competitor on the Android platform. Want to get your Mapping from i.e. Nokia? Lol. Google won't want that. Want to get your Location data from somewhere else? Obviously they won't since they're getting sued in Anti-Trust Court right now over the Motorola strong-arming. This is all pretty obvious :P

This is similar to Microsoft telling OEMs that they will raise Windows Licensing Cost if for Dell/HP Windows Machines if they install OpenOffice.org on their machines instead of a Trial Version of Microsoft Office. Again, this was a key element of the Microsoft Anti-Trust case. Also, it comes as no suprise that Google waited until they gained a ton of Marketshare with Android to backtrack and do this to OEMs and competitors

....

Nokia's marketshare with Symbian was mostly in the Feature Phone category. Their actual smartphone marketshare isn't all that great. Nokia has always made most of their revenue by pushing low cost features phones in great bulk with not too great profit margins.

RIM isn't really a niche phone, their OS just sucks like Symbian/WM and they will be replacing it with a QNX OS next year.

WebOS is superior to Bada. Samsung sells Bada on low cost devices in emerging markets and Korea. Find me a Bada phone on a US carrier, Canadian, or UK carrier that's subsidized, for example...

HP doesn't want that. HP wants to have their own phone with their own ecosystem so that they control both the hardwaer and the software, similar to Apple. HP already made a ton of other phones (lots of Windows Mobile phones and PDAs). They're over that. They want their own playground in which to play. Can't really blame them.

Dell probably should have tried to get Palm, since Google's blatant OEM favortism is doing nothing but giving them a bad name. It's primarily why Dell's phones always launch with an old version of Android on them (they don't have Early Access like Samsung/Moto/etc.).

All the R&D cost talk, etc. was pretty obvious. I wasn't really referring to that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I'm not blaming them. I'm saying that they'll fail to make a good return on their investment, that's it (especially given how much they paid for Palm, it wasn't worth 10% of the price, and even that much would be charity). Palm had cash to survive for a few months, and then it would disappear into oblivion. The acquisition on these terms was the climax of Hurd's arrogance.

That in theory it's better to make phones with your own OS is quite obvious. But having your own OS isn't enough for the combo to work.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
They already have a YouTube app. Purchase another developer, and if Google cuts that off you really have grounds for lawsuit.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Having Palm die out completely to get it for dirt cheap prices would have further decrease the value of their assets. Also, Palm has lots of Patents and other IP that they would not have given away for free.

You need to use your brain a little and think a bit deeper about these things...
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
You should not have to waste potentially millions of dollars to have grounds for the suit. The bias is obvious. Google ignores third party apps abusing the YouTube ToS in plain daylight (Downloading YouTube Videos, etc.) but won't even give Microsoft access to the same metadata they have given other entities access to.

This is not crying and pointing fingers.

Microsoft has a 100% functional YouTube app.

They don't need developers.

They don't need someone else's application.

They need Google's permission to access that metadata so that they can offer the same experience as the Android and iOS application.

What is so damn hard to understand about that? Your solutions are non-solutions. Any sane business would laugh at you in your face for making these "suggestions" to them. I'm through with you.

I get a great experience with any app or service between my two phones that go everywhere with me, so it's not like I care that damn much about the app. I just think the business practices are deplorable.
[Windows Phone 7 General] revrak:
they need to leak the app, and any kind of application, patches, rooms with twitter integration, etc... that they cant release because they are still trying to reach an agreement.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
That's a terrible way to go about things. All they'll be doing is making lawyers richer.

In addition, if the App ends up integrating into Hubs, etc. then users will just end up with chunks of functionality on their phones which is inoperable.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Patents wouldn't devalue in six months, and that's about how long Palm would have existed. Palm didn't have any other worthy assets. So yeah, you should use your brain to understand something deeper than repeating HP's PR statements.

HP paid way too much for this corpse of a business. They can use it, sure, but the only one who came out as a winner was Jon Rubinstein (and the fund that owned their stock prior to the acquisition, forgot what it's called). This silly acquisition was no doubt one consideration for firing Mark Hurd.