yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] xsever:
I think what are you are saying and defending is far more complicated than adding a couple dozen lines of codes to introduce an advanced setting where one can pick whether he wants WIFI ON all the time or not.

Another thing to note is that when both 3G and WIFI are available, WIFI will use less power (THIS IS A FACT). On the other hand, having the WIFI ON without networks available will drain battery since the phone is continuously trying to find and connect to a connection.

You solve this by settings a re-try limit. So, after 5 retries at 1 retry every 5 minutes, WIFI will shut OFF and stop draining your battery until you arrive somewhere where there is WIFI and you turn it ON manually.

What I just described above should be no problem to Windows Phone coders and should, again, fall under an advanced settings tab.

If they want people to adopt WP7, such things should come out of the box and users should be given options. Both Android and iPhones have the option to keep WIFI ON when the screen is OFF/phone is sleeping.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
I made no statements as to how much effort it would take for Redmond to activate that feature. I just suggested if anyone wants it to make some noise. It's a pretty niche request and I'm not sure Redmond is going to be in a rush to implement it unless enough users demand it.

I believe that is what I said.

My girlfriend has no idea how to turn Wifi off and on on her smartphone and it's fairly safe to assume she never turns her cell signal off, leaves her wifi signal on, and puts the phone in standby. This is not a feature that I've ever seen someone in real life say they needed. This forum is a microcosm. There are people on here saying Windows Phone would do so well if you could flash ROMs on it. No one other than a handful of geeks does that. The lack of alternate color schemes and wall papers could be a slight hindrance to adoption but ROMs, rooting, and other hacks are a nonissue to the wider market.

What the OP is asking for is a niche feature. I could see it being useful for someone moving around a building or basement with poor cellular reception. That is why I encouraged him to make some noise. It's not a mass market feature but I believe it has some utility for a reasonable number of people and it shouldn't compromise the integrity or stability of the OS.

We all want Windows Phone to do well. The problem on this forum is I find a lot of people analyze Windows Phone mass market adoption or lack there of from their point of view. Thankfully Redmond isn't doing that. Windows Phone needs more of the top apps and it needs a heck of a lot better marketing. Truly before the launch of the Lumia 900 the Windows Phone displays in the at&t store were PATHETIC and no sales person ever led you over to that neglected corner of the store. I observe how my friends (mostly female) use their iphones. Most of the top feature demands that are made on this forum are a complete nonissue to those types of consumers. Redmond ain't going to get to 20% market share by catering to the XDA wish list.
[Windows Phone 7 General] xsever:
It may not be a 20% market gain, but it IS definitely going to be a gain since their setting will remain the default one (regular users won't notice a thing), and advanced users (who need more customization) will be able to change it.

I am expecting a Nokia Lumia 900 in the mail, but having found out about this WIFI issue today, I guess I'll be returning it and going for an Android since the option is available there.

To sum things up, adding the setting under "Advanced" will benefit MS while not having it there at all will definitely result in cases like mine. Is their objective selling more phones or selling less while keeping parts of the OS too closed?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
To me at least it's not a deal breaker, but it's definitely annoying, especially when you're using apps that rely on your connection: at times you unlock the device, you refresh the app and and you get some "connection error". Obviously this thing also renders Whatsapp useless when on WiFi, which is kinda lame. I hardly use it tho, having a virtually unlimited SMS plan.
[Windows Phone 7 General] xsever:
One of my main problems!
[Windows Phone 7 General] xsever:
Here's how Apple dealt with this scenario:

The majority of people with an iPhone have a data plan, yet Apple still supplied the option for the user to choose. Microsoft should do the same!
[Windows Phone 7 General] sp8y:
The things is with Android there may well be the option to change the wifi sleep policy, eg: when screen turns off OR never etc but when I was running my Android powered MotoDefy I had an issue where the device had a suspend wakelock that showed up in kernel wakelocks as a "wlan_rx awake" wakelock meaning it would not stay in the deep sleep state.

To combat this I had to set the wifi sleep policy to "when screen turns off" & also had to reduce to the standard Android timeout from 15 minutes down to 5 seconds.

Basically the issue showed itself as having the device awake & using the battery in the 300mhz CPU speed.

So what I'm trying to say is that for some people, like me, the wifi timeout on WP7 is not a huge issue as it's well documented that Android has the wlan awake bug.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
Yes but you just said this...

You yourself acknowledged that it could take significant resources to add the feature. All I'm saying is MSFT should prioritize the mass market features and its MARKETING before concentrating on the XDA Forum wish list. That's all. I'm not saying don't do it. What I'm saying is everyone on the forum needs to chill and realize they aren't the target market for Windows Phone. MSFT makes a lot more money selling phones to my girlfriend in the long run than to me. Mass market features first THEN add the XDA features that won't muck up the phone and/or drain their budget.

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ----------

And how many iphones did Apple sell before they included this feature? What you just proved is you can sell tens of millions of phones without the feature you mentioned. It's a nice feature but it is not make or break. I wish the phone had it but I would much rather MSFT worked on the things that helped apple sell tens of millions of $300 on contract phones first.
[Windows Phone 7 General] xsever:
I don't think adding this simple option is going to drain MSFT's resources and budget. It's much easier for them to add the feature and offer better flexibility (a la Apple) than for users to settle for it.

If Apple sold a lot of iPhones without that feature and then added it later and offered more flexibility, that does not mean this is the perfect way.

Again, I do not think that adding this option requires a lot of coding/head scratching/budget draining on MS's end. I am an Engineer and know quite a lot about software development. All other platforms offer this flexibility so they should do the same.

Anyway, I really wanted the Nokia+MS alliance to work, but which something simple like this or bluetooth file transfer, I am rethinking my opinion.

I'll end this here since we do not seem to be going anywhere and let's just hope the option gets added in the future so that a wider variety of users can be satisfied. The funniest thing I read though is someone turning the importance of this feature down and asking another user to take the charger with him everywhere and keep it plugged so that he can keep WIFI ON. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] willdarko:
It's horrible, I really hate this "feature". I would love to see this fixed on WP8.
[Windows Phone 7 General] NeuroXT:
About Windows Phones WiFi

- Turns off after 10 minutes after going to standby.

- Keeps connected when downloading apps or streaming music, even when phone is in standby. This also includes 3rd party VoIP apps such as Skype (yes, it does continue a call on either 3G/Wifi after going standby, but by not hitting the power button).

- WiFi and 3G are about the same regarding to battery efficiency. The phones cellular radio connects to about 3 cell towers for optimal signal strength, but only peers data if/when needed. WiFi is an access point, like a direct connection, so there is no need to establish a connection, when a phone is already connected to it, therefore WiFi provides higher data speeds which requires more processing, and more energy. This is why WiFi radio is turned off when not in use, and switches to 3G connection to provide byte-size data (like push notifications) to your phone.

- When "download as item arrives" is set, 3G radio will remain access to HSPA always available. This is the only option where you can get push notifications to your phone in real time. Although it does not really use too much data, I personally have 100Mb/month and most of the time there is a 30Mb to spare by the time the plan renews (regular usage such as push notifs, emails, Messaging chat on, People hub feeds, and a few songs streamed from zune).

Really there is no harm having a few MB's available to your phone, and face it, your phone without internet, either 3G or WiFi, its 50% useless.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
Man, when I had WiFi set to always on on my Android devices it drained like 5% every 10 hours standby, while 3g connection generally ate up all the battery in a few hours. Also, try browsing the internet both under WiFi and under 3g, the battery drain with 3g is much higher, it also heats up a lot more...to me it has always been clear that WiFi (unless it's bugged) drains very small to no battery. Why do you have to defend body and soul this inane sleep policy, this doesn't make any sense to me...if I forget my Lumia with 3g on all day drains my battery before noon, you can hardly get to the end of the day if you do so, even with very small usage. I wonder if you actually use the phone...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Bungee4CE:
The reason 3G can drain your battery is if you are in a poor reception area the phone keeps trying to re-connect and keeps switching connection types (3G / GRPS, etc.).

I have not noticed the increased power drain from 3G connected browsing compared with Wi-Fi when using Nokia handsets, but maybe it's something I'll need to investigate further in future.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vnvman:
I'd second that if it happened only when using the phone at home (which is a freakin bunker), but I tend to have similar issues even when I'm in the wild. Maybe it's just my carrier sucking real bad?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Bungee4CE:
I know that feeling. Using Vodafone in the UK near to NO reception at home. Vdafone then started selling an end user purchasable Wi-Fi connected restricted base station which I got hold of for a review, which worked for about a year, but that no longer works either, possibly down to my Wi-Fi provder. 1.5Mb broadband on the edge of one of the biggest cities in the UK.

Tech can be so wonderful and so frustrating at times. :-)
[Windows Phone 7 General] xsever:
Maybe in theory 3G is supposedly better on battery with its 4 power states, but in practice, wifi is better since cellular reception is not 100% perfect everywhere thereby making wifi to some more convenient and energy-friendly.

I have proven that with my current Nokia X7 where having 3G enabled kills my battery whereas having wifi on all the time is barely noticeable battery-wise.
[Windows Phone 7 General] snickler:
Alright, this thread is getting a little wild over WiFi & 3G for the Windows Phone.. Listen, people are going to complain regardless of whether this functionality was added or not. It's fine that this "issue" is acknowledged, but by saying the phone is a deal-breaker because of WiFi isn't really a strong enough reason for the pitchforks and flamethrowers to be brought out. The phone is still in its infancy phase, but slowly getting better and better. iPhone and Android have been out since around 2007. They've had a lot of time to mature and its taken a long time for most of these features to be added.

Microsoft a Windows Phone User Voice site to voice your concerns for features and functionality. That is a better place to let Microsoft hear you out rather than having 10 pages on this thread that isn't going anywhere.

Let us close this thread now before it completely gets out of control with people bashing people. This is XDA folks, let's keep it cool here :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
I see. I understand if it is a deal breaker for you. That really has nothing to do with Redmond's mass market strategy. The iphone does not have bluetooth file transfer and tens of millions of those units have been sold.

Hey, I have my own niche wants but that does not justify statements like MSFT would really gain big market share if they had "xyz" feature. Sure it would pick up a handful of XDAers but that really isn't a priority. They are in the process or rewriting the kernel from the ground up. I don't think they have the time to fulfill the wish list of every niche desire of XDA forum.

I think this is one of the most common sense things in this entire thread. We all got involved with windows phone knowing that it was not as mature as other OSes. I haven't seen anything to date that indicates the OS is fundamentally flawed. The funny thing is I keep saying to people wait until Windows Phone 8 drops in <1 yr. A LOT of these threads are going to look silly at that time. EVERYTHING I've seen mentioned seems ultimately fixable. It's just a matter of mass market appeal and time. Look at all the bellyaching that went on before Mango dropped. Now we have a fresh crop of bellyaching. In a matter of months Windows Phone 8 will drop.

I do not have a problem with people that say Windows Phone does not work for them. I have actually steered people away from the platform because they had some desires that could not be met by the platform. That's what individual choice is about. My only issue is when people say that because MSFT doesn't accommodate my niche desire right now that means they are missing out on millions of customers. That is not rational.
[Windows Phone 7 General] xsever:
Oh God why?

It's as simple as adding an option to keep WIFI ON. Something very basic ( i can probably write the code for it myself) yet very important especially for people who do not live in North America and benefit from unlimited data plans.

It may be a niche in North America, but it definitely is not in the rest of the world as shown in the 10 pages of this thread and the 1610+ votes on the feature suggestion page.

I'm not trying to argue for the sake of argument nor I am trying to piss anyone off. Just stop for a second, take a deep breath, and think how basic of a feature that is and how logical it is to have it.

How many of us find themselves sometimes in areas with bad reception where 3G is useless and WIFI is the only option? These people are basically being told: "Too bad! It sucks to be you" rather than "Here's a simple option for you to toggle."

For example, I am on campus right now, studying in the library's basement and I have no signal. My 4-year old Nokia E71 is on WIFI and I am getting my emails/notifications on the go. Mind you the E71 lasts me way more when it's only connected to WIFI versus 3G.

I don't want to cause any tensions in here but I am not seeing a valid excuse for not having this feature vs how easy it is to offer it.

Let's just hope WP8 offers it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sitizenx:
I guess I haven't been clear. I like the idea of the feature. I would like to have it. If it really is simple to implement and costs virtually nothing in terms of time and money sure why not implement it. If all this is is an oversight on MSFT's part then yes I think it should be rectified immediately. I have to say though past history has shown that it was a few iterations of the OS before iphones had this feature. There is a part of me that thinks perhaps there is more to it than the quick easy simple fix you are making it out to be. I could be wrong. It's just the opinion of someone who is not a software engineer.

As was stated before texting apps and email do not use very much data at all. On my Lumia 900 emails and texts come in without attachments. I can read the text and decide whether I want to download the graphics and attachments. I have an unlimited plan but I have yet to go over 3 gb since I got my Lumia 900. I got the unlimited plan because it costs the same as the 3 gb plan. The only cheaper plan is a $20 300mb plan which is a total rip off.

Well what I don't seem to be properly conveying to you is this website is a microcosm. Ten pages and 1610+ votes is nothing compared to the tens of millions of iphones that Apple sold without the feature. That one feature is not what is responsible for Windows Phone's paltry fraction of the market.

As far as US vs the world you have to realize if Windows Phone held 20% of the US smartphone market and didn't sell a single handset in the rest of the world it would be considered a rip roaring success. That hasn't happened. And again Apple managed to sell millions of iphones all over the world without that feature. I understand you and people here in America want the feature but the lack of that feature is NOT what is holding Windows Phone back from mass market domination.

There is no reason that statement should cause any tension at all. You think there is no excuse and I am willing to entertain the possibility there is an excuse. It's just a difference of opinion. I acknowledge I could be 100% wrong. I've just seen instances of missing features that left me scratching my head and then I subsequently discovered there was a perfectly reasonable explanation. But I've dealt with large corporations before and I also realize they often do dumb things. You are 100% sure... I'm somewhat less certain. Nothing that would cause tension.
[Windows Phone 7 General] xsever:
I respect your opinion and hopefully something positive comes out of this :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] xsever:
Here's a trick: http://mobilitydigest.com/wp-tips-tricks-keep-wifi-running-all-the-time/

Thank Jim for finding it and myself for sharing it! :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] rafa8595:
Battery life?

Have everyone considered that turning off Wi-fi and reeconecting is battery saving.

Thats the most important thing about a CPhone, and there is peopple like me that recieve 20 mails in 1 hours maybe more maybe lees, imagine the Cphone ringing each time a mail comes in, as far as good with WP7.

MS could consider put this optional in its OS, maybe WP 7.8?
[Windows Phone 7 General] sathara:
There s a regedit to make WiFi on in stand by .. I have done that in hd2 ..
[Windows Phone 7 General] redeyss:
I had the 200mb plan thru at&t and kept data and Wi-Fi on all day everyday on a focus S and got great battery life and never went over the data ceiling. I would wait to do anything data intense until I was on Wi-Fi. That's one thing I love about wp7 it sips data compared to android. Now I'm on straight talk unlimited so no worries.
[Windows Phone 7 General] QC_MDA:
I've found an simpler solution. Just keep the search app running in the background. It doesn't even have to be the active app and you don't have to search for anything, just leave it open in the background and the WiFi connection will remain active.
[Windows Phone 7 General] titi66200:
@QC_MDA

Do not works for me.
[Windows Phone 7 General] QC_MDA:
I'm using an Omnia 7, with 7.5 Mango, build 7.10.7740.16 and it's been working perfectly for days. This is what I do:

1) Connect to a WiFi network

2) Switch off cellular data connection

3) Tap the search key

4) Press the home key to return to the home screen

5) Lock the screen

6) Wait for at least 30 seconds

7) Press the home key and see that the WiFi connection is still active
[Windows Phone 7 General] sp8y:
Didn't work on my Lumia 800 - wifi just disconnects as normal. Not a big issue for me as I currently have unlimited mobile data but just thought I'd try it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] SPIDER-7:
Hi++

this problem with Wifi can be solve simply by this app

KEEP live app by windows phone hacker.
[Windows Phone 7 General] KimWinter:
Not really that big of a problem for me and definitely not a dealbreaker...but, if you notice, if you're downloading something - a podcast or application - even if the phone automatically locks, your phone does not get disconnected from your wifi connection...
[Captivate General] trell959:
i bricked my captivate. fully bricked.dead. gone. haha it was all my fault though:p. i flashed back to stock and wanted to see if there was an update OTA. there was so i downloaded it. forgetting that i always have the update.zip form clockworkmod (so i dont have to keep rooting to flash a rom) on the root of my sd card, the update.zip from the download went somewhere. i dont know where it went. so the message popped up saying do i want to update now so i did. it booted into this software update screen. halfway through the process it said 'installation aborted. going to reboot . so the phone shut off and never came on again because it was installing the clockworkmod file. not to mad tho. haha did it right on the day my contract expired. now im getting the inspire:D

post you stories here!;)
[Captivate General] peachpuff:
I doubt its bricked, make a usb jig to bring it back to life.
[Captivate General] trell959:
nah just gone. tried putting it on the charger. battery gets hot. tried jig. nothing. not even the capacitive buttons light up
[Captivate General] xredjokerx:
i'll buy it off you for 10 dollars :P
[Captivate General] viny2cool:
I had infinite loop for an hour, so my battery died pretty much and i didnt notice that...I was using one click odin to flash to stock..and it turned green...i pulled everything out....again tried in download mode and now it turned pink...so again I pulled everything and tried to put it in download mode....Dead...complete dead...tried everything I could....
[Captivate General] trell959:
ugh thats a day killer! once my battery died right before starting odin. i just popped in my dads battery and finished it. scary though :p
[Captivate General] 84Phins:
I too received the green screen when flashing...Fortunately I can get to the download mode use a jig, although I cannot do anything from there. My computer recognizes the phone but I get no response when trying to flash the firmware.
[Captivate General] Nick James:
I second that idea. :)
[Captivate General] aguila88psi:
Somehow I've managed to fully brick my phone more than ten times!! Always came back to life with dl mode or jig but mostly persistence, gotta keep trying the jig and volume up down buttons followed by endless connecting and disconnecting USB cables to get it to take.
[Captivate General] bulletproof1013:
Full bricks front come back to life

If I have helped press thanks.;)
[Captivate General] rons_sacramental:
Hello,

Anyone with bricked or broken captivate wants to sell it?? I am looking for a captivate for parts. PM me

Thanks
[Captivate General] aqw955:
Are you sure???
[Captivate General] AdamOutler:
That's not full brick... Full brick won't go into download mode. It will just sit therea dn do nothing. Not even get hot when you put it on the charger.

Listen guys... I need a for-real bricked captivate. Black screen, won't do anything at all for testing... This is why.. If you have a brick, please PM me. I'll return it after testing, hopefully in a working condition.

[youtube]GGrFAU1sig8[/youtube]

That "brick" in the video, that's a soft brick. it's not a full, hard brick.

I'm trying to NOT black-screen hard-brick my own phone... If you have one around which is bricked, please let me know and I'll try to fix it. I need one for testing before I go bricking my extra phone for real
[Captivate General] elwilson4:
This happend to me as well. Battery died during Odin. Completely black screen. Wouldn't charge and would get hot while plugged in.