yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Atrix 4G General] Kueller:
This is actually a rather interesting situation. The DMCA and subsequent Apple lawsuit has established both the legislation and court precedent that you can unlock and jailbreak/root your mobile phone if you so wish (mobile phones only so far, tablets do not qualify under the DMCA exemption).

I believe any language in a VZW contract contradicting these consumer rights you're afforded under the law would be considered null and void. VZW limiting or terminating the data service you've paid for and signed a contract to receive just because you've rooted your phone should be considered a breach of contract by VZW and allow you to leave without ETF...

Maybe VZW's on to something! Buy phone, sign contract, root phone, get data suspended, terminate contract for breach of terms...Profit?
[Atrix 4G General] tyvallely:
Motorola, HTC, and Verizon are developing a software to track us.
[Atrix 4G General] tyvallely:
But motorola could release this in an update
[Atrix 4G General] tyvallely:
The profit part makes perfect sense.
[Atrix 4G General] Kueller:
Release an update that does what? Limit or suspend your data services? Why and How would Moto go about doing that?

There's the Why (VZW), and also the How (also VZW). And neither the Why nor the How have anything to do with the Atrix.

Wrong forum.
[Atrix 4G General] tyvallely:
No no no no like enable the tracking feature. And no its the right forum because motorola or verizon could do it. ATT is next to do so.
[Atrix 4G General] ChumleyEX:
what does this have to do with the Atrix?
[Atrix 4G General] tyvallely:
Well if motorola releases the tracking update then its a problem for motorola devices. The last time I checked it was made by motorola. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
[Atrix 4G General] PixoNova:
Because other carriers will start doing the same thing. Classic case of monkey see, monkey do.
[Atrix 4G General] Athailias:
At&T will just have a superuser fee, no worries, ill pay it :P
[Atrix 4G General] HBEAR:
Why would they have to release any form of tracking software or update, they can already see what software you have loaded on your device. Any device running a program requiring root, automatically defines you as having rooted your device
[Atrix 4G General] hotleadsingerguy:
Wait...so a random user on another forum says something is true...and it's seen as fact?

Plz.
[Atrix 4G General] alphadog00:
If anyone believes that carriers have the ability or time to track phone ids for root then go get your tinfoil hats. You need to worry about the cranial implants that broadcast your location when gps is off.

That article is a load of crap. All guesses based on nothing.

sent from my Atrix
[Atrix 4G General] PixoNova:
Actually, P3droid said it. He gave his source on the first page.
[Atrix 4G General] dingleberry1:
Time is debatable, but ability is there. It wouldn't be all that difficult to put in a process that looks for processes running as root and report any whose name / checksum / etc don't match a predetermined official list for a given phone and version combo.
[Atrix 4G General] emuneee:
This is interesting in that supposedly all carriers are doing it. What about retail unlocked devices on AT&T. It's going to be cheaper (and more customer friendly) for carriers to just sell customers a tiered data plan instead of packaging all types of services with it.....I'd have to see more evidence of this before I believe it in its entirety.
[Atrix 4G General] :
This is why Google is tightening the reigns on android. So stuff like this doesn't happen. If this does happen you can say I'm getting a Nexus S. I will accept the locked bootloader for now but what they might do is ridiculous.
[Atrix 4G General] alphadog00:
But why? You can tether without root - so what does it gain them.

The iPhone is a better platform to do this because it stops unlocking and tethering. But it hasn't been done. So why do it on android? Google would have a fit too - where Apple would be pushing for it.

Also, the biggest reason this story is BS, is that if you have root, you could find this magical process and stop it, or send back erroneous data. Same with an iPhone.

The manufacturer/carrier has a better shot in eliminating root access then they do trying to track rooted phones. Also, the courts have upheld that rooting and unlocking are legal and the carrier can require a stock phone to receive an update and get support, but that is about it.

So why bother tracking rooted phones, when all they really want is for people to pay for services consumed?

Sorry, but the story has way to many holes in it to be even remotely plausible.

And for the poll: choice 5 - Ignore this and do nothing. BTW, you can't sue a rumor.
[Atrix 4G General] cegna09:
You're kidding right? Carriers track unbelievable amounts of data from you. They basically know where you are at all times even without GPS, and it's all automated. They don't need a single person to do any of it. If updates are being written by motorola, htc, etc to determine if you are rooted, all they have to do is add a line that sends that fact to Verizon, AT&T, or whatever carrier you're using. That message trips a flag on your account, and boom, done.

It's more than just tethering, though i assume that is a large part of it. It's about using services you are not paying for. Things like enabling HSUPA on the captivate go directly against what AT&T wanted. And while you're right, somethings like tethering don't require root, most people that use it are rooted, so seeking out rooted users is a logical step to finding them.

basically, all you people saying "oh this will never happen, there are too many holes", get a reality check. the days of an amazingly easy to hack platform were always short lived. Carriers would never stand for it forever. And it's mostly the fault of the average low knowledge phone moder. The people that enable tethering without paying for it, and use large amounts of data through that method. If you use it, pay for it. Don't like the policies, take it up with AT&T, don't just bypass it and screw over the whole community.

Edit: the other huge issue is idiots not knowing what they are doing with a phone, trying to mod it, breaking something, and then returning it as defective. It was once a well accepted rule that if you screw up your phone while messing with it, tough ****, your fault, deal with the consequences. Not anymore. It's become so easy to do a lot of things that the average user that really has no need for half the mods is trying them, then panicking when it breaks. News flash, when you return a device that you screwed up, it's pretty easy for a manufacturer to determine the cause. Each device returned for this reason is one more straw on the camel's back.
[Atrix 4G General] ChumleyEX:
what he said.
[Atrix 4G General] eallan:
Edit: the other huge issue is idiots not knowing what they are doing with a phone, trying to mod it, breaking something, and then returning it as defective. It was once a well accepted rule that if you screw up your phone while messing with it, tough ****, your fault, deal with the consequences. Not anymore. It's become so easy to do a lot of things that the average user that really has no need for half the mods is trying them, then panicking when it breaks. News flash, when you return a device that you screwed up, it's pretty easy for a manufacturer to determine the cause. Each device returned for this reason is one more straw on the camel's back.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure you have evidence that this is a "huge issue."
[Atrix 4G General] Clienterror:
Yes returning a bricked phone will break the camels back. AT&T only showed a 19.9 billion dollar net profit in 2010 , consequently they also only had one software update in all of 2010 and it was for the Moto backflop...and it was running 1.6...how nice of them to let them have 2.1 last November.
[Atrix 4G General] shadowscreation:
Yep people like me are why they are cracking down on non tethered plan users I just checked my bill and on my unlim plan I have used 32,000mb and I still have 14 days left in this cycle man I went overboard watching netflix on my xbox this month lol but ya if they start doing this stuff im screwed because I have a reason I use tethering there is only one company where I live that offers highspeed internet and they run a monopoly out here there prices are ridiculous and the internet is the worst I had so I use tethering for my entire house I hate how everything is turning out in this world carriers are screwing people more than a pornstar what can u do well that's my rant for the month
[Atrix 4G General] cegna09:
yes, you are part of the group causing problems. Guess what, ISPs have monopolies all over the country. You know what, the rest of us suck it up, pay it, and call in complaining to them now and then. A mobile network is not supposed to take the load and strain you are putting on it.
[EVO Shift 4G General] symond:
i currently have evo shift but its still under 30 days and i heard nexus s coming out this month so what shuld i do ?? is nexus s is better than evo shift ?? help please thanks guys

nexus s upgrade will be always firstt
[EVO Shift 4G General] lilgrass71:
Do you have a preference for a hardware keyboard?

I think both phones are exceptionally fast. There's a point in processor speed where you can't really tell the difference if ones better than the other.

With the nexus you get the full google experiences with the ability to be on googles latest software versions.

With the shift you have your keyboard and htc excellent build quality.
[EVO Shift 4G General] BuddahWolf01:
Also the nexus s does not have a sd card slot so you cannot remove or expand the memory.
[EVO Shift 4G General] notsointeresting:
Nexus S

Pure Google, Latest Firmware updates when they come out, Beautiful Contour Display, 2 Cameras (front,Back) 1ghz Processor,

Evo Shift

HTC build, Hardware keyboard, HTC Sense UI Overlay, Android 2.2 (2.3 in q2 2011 OFFICIAL) 800mhz second generation snapdragon cpu, Facebook Integration, Nice virtual keyboard. 1 5megapixel camera. 480x800 HDPI

MY suggestion wait for the Evo 3D

Between the two you want i would pick the Nexus S although i have a shift and i love it. you cant go wrong
[EVO Shift 4G General] notsointeresting:
forgot to add like the above post

Nexus S

16gb internal memory NO SD CARD so no expandable memory

Evo shift about 400mb of internal and 2gb sd card that can be expanded to 32gigs
[EVO Shift 4G General] HTCotta:
The Nexus S doesn't have an SD slot?! I had no idea...that's an interesting omission by Samsung or Google, whoever is responsible.
[EVO Shift 4G General] Rob_ec:
Doesnt the shift have 2gb of internal memory?
[EVO Shift 4G General] jesusice:
I'd love a Nexus if it wasn't made by Samsung.

^ Shift Faced
[EVO Shift 4G General] herbthehammer:
^ I agree ^

Some of my turn offs with the Sam is no notification light, the build quality feels cheap and too light, painfully slow charge cycle, no HD record, and nothing significantly new when compared to the epic besides vanilla gingerbread out of the box.
[EVO Shift 4G General] iczerjones:
Bingo. Before I picked up the Shift, I was considering the Nexus on T-mo, but after handling one I was quickly reminded that is indeed a Samsung handset. It's a nice phone for sure, but not to my liking.
[EVO Shift 4G General] Scaryghoul:
You can't really access it. You only have access to ~1gig of it total, a lot of it is eaten up by /system recovery, /data/ and other stuff.

You get usually around 300 mb free to 350 on /data after a fresh wipe and a few packages. /system usually has about that much free all the time, but nothing ever really gets written there.

@OP - If you're patient, wait for the 3d. Although if you want battery life, you're better off with one of the two you listed, I'd probably go with the shift out of the two.

If you want a real powerhouse, the 3d will do that, but it has no keyboard, will be a lot of money, and it will probably lose battery fairly quickly unless they've absolved that issue in the newer generation evo's.(The shift is fine, but og evo wasn't so good on battery).

If you're around a charger most of the time, evo 3d would be an easy sell, the power+big screen+hdmi+decent camera+ect is just an easy sell.
[EVO Shift 4G General] ahager88:
I think all the points are already made in this thread, I'd just like to add that this is likely my last HTC mobile device.

I'm extremely satisfied with my shift, but the direction HTC is taking... in the future I'll be more apt to look at Samsung, LG, hell even Dell.

Just my .02
[EVO Shift 4G General] EricSS619:
Direction?
[EVO Shift 4G General] symond:
hey thanks alot pplz

thiis really help me alot

i dont really need keyboard and i also love the htc evo shift it does everything that i need no complaint except battry dies extreamly fast

but what the heck no LED notification on nexus s ?? thats sucks

dont mind about storage eaither i dont store more than 4 gb in my phone max i have used 3 gb storage so far

so i guess it will be cool to try out nexus too huh ???

again thanks sooooooooo much every1 for helping me out
[EVO Shift 4G General] KingOfThe718:
what do you consider extemely fast battery drain? I've had the shift since the first day it came out in january and the one thing that immediately blew me away was the awesome battery life.

I go a whole work day plus some (10hrs) on a charge with moderate to heavy use... is this your first android phone?
[EVO Shift 4G General] ahager88:
Click Here!

Of course there will always be a workaround. Where there's a will, there's a way. Just kinda seems to me like all these companies are trying to take the "open" out of open source.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hayn_pryde46:
Im Running Bi Winnings Beta 3 And My Haptic Home Button Is Giving Me Problem Is There A Fix For It...
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hayn_pryde46:
Just holding button to hard...
[Thunderbolt General] oneders65:
I was trying to remove amazon out of the app drawer and I removed the amazon.apk and I have the com.amazon.apk still there. I looked at the properties and it looks like it might be a left over from kindle. Can someone help me in removing this last piece of bloatware?
[Thunderbolt General] psychomaniac189:
just change the extension to .bak or apk.old
[Thunderbolt General] oneders65:
[SOLVED]

All I needed to do was reboot and it refreshed the APP Drawer....
[Motorola Droid Bionic] tyvallely:
If you haven't heard all ready Verizon is tracking down root users and limiting there data or fully suspending it so watch out. But we have to fight back against them by hiding Verizon from seeing that we are proudly rooted and some people have said the would sue Verizon. Please do whatever you can to fight against this.

Also motorola and htc are going to start doing the same.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] sneakysolidbake:
This......can't be true........where did you learn of this?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] piperat:
Not surprising

Used my fascinating voodoo powers
[Motorola Droid Bionic] apDroid:
Could you please link a source for this information? Thanks!
[Motorola Droid Bionic] djfrost17:
+1: source please
[Motorola Droid Bionic] piperat:
P3droid announced it. When i get time ill link

Used my fascinating voodoo powers
[Motorola Droid Bionic] necroscopev:
I saw that on Droid Life yesterday and got sad. I am in between contracts now and am debating on getting the Thunderbolt which is wide open for root or waiting for the Bionic, which if it is like the Atrix, might not be rootable at all. Now with this info i am even more lost on which one to get :(
[Motorola Droid Bionic] piperat:
Dont get discouraged. Ive been on android since the og droid. These posts come out all the time. The thing they will attack is tethers. Which is understandable being that they are stealing.

Used my fascinating voodoo powers
[Motorola Droid Bionic] CaliTilt:
What concerns me more is that can they or will they differentiate between a rooted phone custom ROM and rooted phone with the person tethering.

I am provided with a paid tethered phone from work with unlimited data plan. I do not use my personal phone to tether. I like the option of having custom ROMs so that I can have the most optimized phone available and not one slowed or battery life lost to bloatware or bugs in the kernal/radio.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Chalup:
Looks like it'll be the lg g2x for me. Or the Xperia arc if it's released in the U.S. with t-mobile's bands. After the merger, who knows :(
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Funzy32:
+1 same here man.

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt
[Motorola Droid Bionic] I Am Marino:
This is horrible.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] nubsors:
I find it hard to believe that the industry is spending all this time and money on something that is much easier to control from functionality that already exists. Take AT&T for example. They have tiered data plans. Really it doesn't matter if you tether because the more data you use, the more they charge. And that is what this is ultimately about. Money. If a phone company wants me to stop using tether, rather than putting time and effort into the phone, just limit the data. If I owned Verizon, this would totally be the route I would take my business. Forget spending money on locking down the customer. Offer a superior network at a premium price and let the customer go wild. You want to tether 15 devices? Go right ahead, I don't care how many devices you use, but you are limited to 3GB of data for a month and you will be charged exponentially more for each GB over that allotment. Is it really that hard to figure out?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] thorpe24:
No its not stealing im paying,for unlimited data which I should be able to use how I want. Tethering or not. I dont download torrents and **** over cell data or anything just use it for gendral browsing and email same stuff I would do on the phone just on a larger screen.

U know how much a txt message costs to send but its 20 bucks a month for unlimited txting....its a ripoff look it up.

Just my 2cents
[Motorola Droid Bionic] piperat:
You pay for unlimited data to your phone. If you want unlimited data on anything else you should pay the fee they ask for. Its their company they can charge what they want and for whatever they want. You signed the deal. They didnt force you to. If you dont like what they charge for their services find another company that will give you a better deal.

Used my fascinating voodoo powers
[Motorola Droid Bionic] racereddy20:
Is this limited to Motorola and Verizon only or all Verizon phones and devices?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] codybear:
From what I read a while back, Verizon is going to tiered data plans, along with a handful of other carriers... I believe it was on xda, phandroid or android central that I had read multiple news articles about this...

Technically the data is still running to your phone, so it shouldn't matter. Plus I remember with 2.1 or something like that tethering was "suppose" to be free...

But this argument could go either way really... I see the view point from both sides and I think with a tiered data plan (over XX amount of gb of usage) should be enacted. Also maybe throttle the people downloading torrents or large amounts of data, and offer the tethering fee to unlock the full network speed to those people that download mass amounts of data and use tethering as their only or main source of internet (basically just a little rework of the system they have in place now). I mean I like to be able to tether when I'm on a roadtrip or don't have access to internet (mainly at work there is a dead spot for the wifi due to the radiology classes being inbetween our wifi antenna and the break room. This is caused by the lead lining in their walls). I don't download anything other than what little data I would be using on my phone normally to check some forums, facebook and the occasional email when I want to view those on a bigger screen due to eye and neck strain while eating my lunch. In all honesty, when you break it down, I use A TON less of data while I'm tethering than when I would use my phone as intended due to the tons of apps I run constantly with the constant updates. Now I know that is not the case for the majority of the people that use free tethering, but like the saying goes, why let a few bad apples ruin in for the rest (which is why I stated the throttling of large amounts of data being downloaded such as torrents...my cable internet provider already does this, so it can't be hard for them to implement).

This is not an attack on you personally if it came out that way, jsut a bunch of my scattered thoughts as I've running off of an average 1-2 hours of sleep per night for the past week and I have to be up for work in about 4 hours. And that's also my excuse if this sounds like complete gibberish. lol :D

It says in the article...
[Motorola Droid Bionic] shadowdude777:
Sure, it's their company and, therefore, their say, but the problem is that there are only 4 big telcos, soon to be 3 (AT&T-Mo, Verizon, and Sprint), and they're all in on it together. They all know that they can screw the consumer by charging extra for everything. Sprint's not as bad as the other 3, but they're not innocent either.

This is the same as how ISPs can theoretically do whatever they want as long as they tell us, but in practice it works out quite badly for the end user because you have about one or two choices of ISP where you live.

I'm not necessarily saying tethering should be free. But I'm DEFINITELY saying it's not worth $30 extra. A $5-10 add-on is all I see it worth being.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] stang393:
I think this will end up like the Iphone jailbreak.

Supreme Court said that the Purchaser OWNS the hardware and can do whatever the hell they want to it...F-Off Apple!

I think the same would happen...
[Motorola Droid Bionic] crazyhtown:
Cliff notes: duuuuur. Hurrrrr
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Brad003:
Always...

I believe in this technological world, there will always be a way around any obstacle. We all remember the Napster days and what stemmed from that...10 different browsers that did the same thing after Napster was shut down. There are some really SMART people out there that can find a way to MacGyver anything! I have faith in them and the developers at XDA... My original droid is ready to be buried! Bring on the Bionic, bring on the added security! Bring on those bright brains that are able to break through and customize our phones as we desire! I'm paying an amount equal to a motorcycle payment each month for my phone! Not like I'm getting the phone for free and not paying for the service! How much money can one company want?! Greeeeeed is killing this country! :)