yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Cruiserdude:
I would expect so, but the problem is that would still allow the carriers to cut off your service if you had modified your device in a manner that they considered non-compliant. A rooted device is capable of running any app that someone wants to create, including tethering apps, and a modified ROM or one built directly from AOSP source can bypass or remove whatever carrier restrictions are in place to prevent tethering. So to a carrier, ANY rooted device is capable of unauthorized tethering, and the surefire way to prevent it would be to prevent rooted devices from accessing the network. This would piss alot of people off and carry its own set of legal issues, but is still a separate issue from the manufacturer allowing rooting in the first place, which is what the Apple thing was all about.

What needs to happen is for the FCC to step in and say that its a misleading and unfair business practice to charge customers for a certain amount of data, and then charge more based on how you use that data. If someone purchases a data package with a monthly allotment of data, they should not be charged extra whether they use it for internet services or applications on their phone, for SMS or MMS messaging, or for sharing the connection with other devices. This should include those of us with unlimited data plans, as the plans themselves advertise UNLIMITED data, there's no reason we should pay extra to use that data how we want. Its just like home ISP's, they don't charge more based on how many devices you have on your connection or ban the use of routers. You pay for a service, and you can use it how you like, whether its capped or unlimited.

If the courts were to approve this, it would remove the carriers' ability to charge extra for tethering, and remove any incentive they may have to discourage root users. This would protect our rights and our community, and allow the manufacturers to continue to pursue relationships with our community without feeling like they're at odds with the carriers. I worry that the carriers would respond with enforced data caps and higher rates, but hopefully such a response after a ruling like that would be seen as price-fixing, and also considered an unfair business practice. I understand that maintaining and upgrading mobile networks is expensive, and I hate that we have to rely on government agencies to keep the corporations in check. But looking at their profits, we know we're getting ripped off, and such rampant greed should not be allowed in a supposedly open marketplace.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] TMFGO45:
I'm pretty sure that article is very old by p3droid. And also, it if looking like Moto is moving to unlocked bootloaders. Possibly fixed after release, maybe before, we don't know with the Bionic. Maybe not at all, but they say they are playing ball. The real problem is with the built in tracking methods inside gingerbread, and if a true, trustworthy workaround can be discovered.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Twister997:
I see where the phone companies are coming from (excessive use is a strain on the network) but as was stated above if the contract says "unlimited" data how can they then charge me more for tethering, isp's do not charge more when you're using a router.

This also harkens back to the days of Verizon locking down bluetooth file transfers when the functionality was built into the phone. Tethering functionality is built into these phones by google and meant to be used, not rationed out based on the depth of your wallet.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] bplewis24:
Yeah, remove this crap from this forum. P3Droid has zero credibility with these types of things.

Brandon
[Motorola Droid Bionic] ApeLovesIceCream:
I agree with almost everyone on here, but why is there so many post about the data plan ****. Sprint has the only unlimited data plan it wont take long for theme to be like Verizon, t-mobile, and att. Face it they only care about money and peoples earnings wether your a developer, user, hacker.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] smokedkill:
I don't see how tethering is stealing when you could buy a tethering app on the market before the cell providers even thought to add tether to their plans. I know the one tether app is no longer available on the Android Market for Verizon phones, which shows that Android really isn't as open as claimed. It may be more open than the iPhone, but its still far from being truly open.

I also believe that the carriers and manufacturers should embrace the custom rom community and make a rom market that would make it simple for people to install custom roms. I also don't agree with making the bloatware undeletable without rooting. When software comes preinstalled on my computer, I am able to uninstall it. I should be able to do the same with bloatware. I agree with putting it on there, but we should be able to delete it if we don;t want it. I have a blockbuster app and LetsGolf game taking up space and I never use them at all.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] jtdocrx:
Took my folks to a VZW store to get them upgraded before the tiered plans went into effect. They live in a non-4G area so I got them both DInc2's (posting here b/c it's pertinent and my next phone will most likely be the Bionic). My dad is on the road a lot and he asked the question, "So if I want to connect my computer to this phone and use the internet on my computer it's another $20/month?" and the guy said, "Yes, to use Verizon's Mobile Hotspot. Or there's an app on the market, one time fee, $15 and you have to connect using the USB cable, but there's no monthly fee." If that's not license to use, I don't know what is.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] kkuhler:
They took down all of the wireless tether apps, but they did not take down EasyTether because its wired only. I think they drew the line at wireless tethering to keep people from running entire households off of a single phone.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] rumblee1:
Hi, I agree 100% with you. I'm paying for a data plan, if I pay a separate tendering charge, then I'm paying double for the same product. Its no different that if you go to buy a car, pay the dealer 25000. To buy it, then pay the dealer another 25000. to use it every day. Hopefully the FCC or some smart lawyer Will see this and file a class action.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Brad003:
Correct me if I'm wrong...but you are only forced into a tiered plan if you CHANGE or modify your plan, NOT update your phone...right?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] TMFGO45:
I won't correct you :)
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Brad003:
Grrrrrrrrrreat! I guess I should have done some plan switch prior to the July 7th.... Oh wellz! Thanks for not correcting me!
[Motorola Droid Bionic] TMFGO45:
What were you going to switch? If it is something like texting, that won't affect anything. But I think switching your minutes portion will.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] CominWitDaSauce:
Completely ridiculous.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] papapena25:
I just changed my family plan from 700 min. to 1400 min. and the unlimited data option was still there when it asked if i wanted to change my features. If you have unlimited data already you can change your mins add or take off features and upgrade your phone and still keep unlimited data. Also if you have a 4g device or when you upgrade to a 4g device you can get unlimited mobile hotspot for $30
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Immolate:
For now they are simply forcing new customers or lines into the tiered structure. Some day, down the line, they'll start taking bites at the legacy customers with unlimited data and force them into a tiered plan until we're all tiered. I've seen it happen before with other aspects of the plans.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] jjhiza:
Ladies and gentlemen, what we have here is a good, old-fashioned Oligopoly, where VZW, AT& T, and Sprint control the whole of the United States cellular tele-communications business. On its own, this is not crossing the boundaries of legality, but, if what the article from P3Droid says is true (that the companies are working together to formulated a plan to lock out rooted devices), then we enter the realm of racketeering, which IS illegal. When I buy a piece of hardware, I OWN it, hands down; the manufacturer no longer has any claim to the product itself, and I should be able to do what I want with it, within reason, and still have it covered against theft, routine damage, and defects. Example:

I own a Ford Mustang. Now Ford builds its cars to certain specifications, and designs it to run a certain way, just like phone manufacturers do. But, if I decide to put a non-Ford engine in it (within the time frame of my warantee), Ford will not deny me service for my vehicle. They may charge me for non-company engine parts, but the cost of labor will still be covered, and any Ford components still on the vehicle, will be covered at no cost to me. Think of replacing an engine as flashing a new ROM on your phone... same principle.

Now, if I happen to be driving my car, and get a call because a friend of mine needs me to jump-start his car, does Ford charge me for sharing my battery's power with another vehicle? No, they don't, and they can't because the car is mine! Think of a jump-start as tethering.

We all know the inherent risks in flashing a ROM, kernel, or whatever, but why should a software change be grounds for our service to be locked down or terminated? We aren't asking for cell companies to give us the world on a plate... just to let us enjoy our devices (which some people pay full price for) the way we would like to. If I want to run my Galaxy Tab off of my Droid's wireless tether, I should be able to; i pay for my unlimited plan, and I should reap the benefits. Now if that app causes my phone to malfunction, I would certainly not expect either VZW or Motorola to replace it, since it's not an authorized software, but if my volume buttons fall off, why should I be denied a replacement, just because I'm rooted?

The bottom line is, we all pay top dollar for our phones, and take pride in owning them. We buy new devices frequently as well, and our dev community is (at times) able to put out far better product than the ones being PAID by these huge conglomerates. We drive the market's ingenuity forward (obviously, if manufacturers pay enough attention to the small modding scene to want to lock our devices), and keep pushing for fresh, new ideas. Why should we be punished? I (along with a lot of you here, I'll bet) resent even the concept of disabling our devices, just because we want to make changes. If manufacturers and carriers want such rigid control, they should start RENTING phones and data to us instead.

Sorry for this incredibly long post guys... just had to get it off my chest... happy modding! :)
[Motorola Droid Bionic] jjhiza:
This just in: Android Central is reporting that AT&T is going to start "throttling" the unlimited data of the top 5% of users, beginning October 1st... I know it's not exactly them "locking down" devices, but its disturbing nonetheless...
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Nuar:
While I love your analogy (i own a mustang too lol) Its not entirely correct... If you change an intake on the car, they dealer will deny warranty on the motor since you modified it. If you change an engine, the drive train warranty will be void.... The whole battery thing, sure I agree.... BUT Ford doesn't pay fees to maintain a power plant that constantly recharges your battery, so they dont spend extra money if you share your battery's power with someone else. Phone companies have to maintain servers that deliver the data to our phones.

I can see how people being careless, tethering the entire house hold, every computer and their kids gaming consoles off of lets say Verizons connection (not saying all that can be done but I'm sure lots have tried), WOULD piss off the companies since they have to pay additional $$ to provide higher bandwith for the regular folks to be able to just browse from their phones....

I think its 'effin STUPID to deny modifying our phones.... notice what I said there?? **OUR** PHONES... Tethering should be limited or disabled... but phones should stay open for us to modify all we friggin want.... *end rant*
[Motorola Droid Bionic] dusthead:
i believe the largest problem we are an audience to is that the service providers, from nearly the beginning, have been the almighty gatekeepers of everything. when manufacturers created a new phone - who approved it? software/hardware? the service provider.

service providers are used to having control of everything, no large majority of users ever thought about tethering back when data was first introduced to phones. it was wayyyy too slow, first of all, and the ability wasn't built into the hardware and software.

so when speeds now climb above the cheapest cable internet plan (widely used), and hardware/software provides the capability (either intended or not)...people ask themselves "hey why not?".

when service providers realized this as a legitimate issue they started dumping money into securing the devices (once they noticed they were losing money).

i think the large problem is that the service providers have lost what they're title really means....."SERVICE" "PROVIDER". i think if one of the big companies needs to step back and focus on providing the wireless voice/data service...and stop worrying about hardware/software.

i'm not saying they need to stop selling the hardware, i'm saying there's an ethics issue - when i buy a smartphone, that b%#ch is mine...and i'll do whatever i want with it...JUST like my PC at home.

does your cable internet provider come over to your house and do an assessment to find out if you are sharing your wireless? do they charge you more because you're using wireless and not wired? when was the last time you paid on a tiered amount of data plan for cable internet? lol
[Motorola Droid Bionic] Banggugyangu:
Verizon doesn't spend "extra" money if the data you use is used by the phone or via tethering. This is where the grey area comes in. Should Verizon charge extra for the same data throughput just because you want this data usage on your PC? You're paying for the data throughput already. Why should Verizon get to depict which device it should benefit?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] jjhiza:
Looks like some changes might be on the horizon, after this morning's news that Google has purchased Motorola. I expect this to have far-reaching, and industry wide ramifications, as Google now has direct control over one of the platform's flagship products, the Droid series. That one series of phones, along with the Evo, and the Galaxy S series, are the largest sellers at the carrier level, and if Google mandates that Motorola devices ship with unlocked bootloaders, while being first in line for OTA's, carriers will have no option, other than compliance…otherwise they run the risk of being "black-listed" by Google, thus losing market share. Also, if Google takes Motorola in the direction I'm predicting, other device manufacturers will be forced to keep pace… we will end up with 1) better quality devices, 2) more streamlined customer service, and 3) a truly open platform, that everyone, from hackers to grandmothers, can be happy with. This may also bring OEMs into the fold, as Google (moreso than Motorola) may have the ability to directly moderate and support 3rd party firmware! I'd also like to mention that along with the purchase of Motorola, Google pick up ALL the patents that Motorola held. They can "open source" these, making them available to all android device manufacturers, allowing small companies like HTC, to protect themselves in this ridiculous patent war. This would all but insure the survival of the Android OS, and will spur innovation and competition. This is massive news folks, so don't take it lying down…changes are coming, so get excited! :)
[Motorola Droid Bionic] eallan:
It sure would be awesome if motorola hardware started shipping without ****ty software. We'd actually have some great devices (once they leave their pentile screens behind.)

The droid series is not strictly motorola made though.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] jjhiza:
Very true, although, when I say "Droid series", I'm strictly talking about the Moto devices, not HTC's (even though they are great). I would also venture to say that the pentile screen is here to stay. While it's not so bad on the D3 (at 4"), its flaws are glaringly obvious on the X2, and will be even more obvious on the Bionic's nearly 5" screen. The screen itself if the best outdoor, glare-reducing screen I've used, but I personally prefer an AMOLED screen for clarity, especially when gaming.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] eallan:
Typing this on my sgs2 after having an atrix, no chance I'm going back to pentile. I hope this is a stop gap until 1290x720 displays are ready.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] ashclepdia:
This is my first phone in almost six years so I am curious as to what flaws you speak of. What flaws are you talking about? Which phone should I compare x2 to at Verizon store to see the differences?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] jjhiza:
The device itself is fine, but the pentile screen does tend to look grainy and pixelated when rendering certain types of graphics. My point of reference is Pocket legends…it looked fine on my Droid, spectacular on my Galaxy Tab, but looks like absolute garbage on my D3. The vector graphics just don't render properly for some reason, but games like N.O.V.A. look just fine. The D3 lockscreen also accentuates the pentile display's shortcomings, with any type of wallpaper, besides a simple, flat-color background. I'm not overly familiar with the X2's lockscreen, but it may be just as bad.

Conversely, web pages render just fine, as do most other programs and apps, but you may run into some apps, here or there, that just don't look right. The display hasn't been a deal-breaker for me yet, but I certainly hope it gets either an upgrade in quality, or gets removed entirely on future devices. I can only imagine the horror and trauma that would be caused if a 10" tablet came out with this screen; people might just riot, after paying $700+ for a device, with a screen that is sub-par.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] nevrlow:
everyone needs to ban together and support what you think is right with this issue.

if everyone wants to tether for free you can but we need numbers of ppl.

everyone will need to switch to a prepaid provider and rock a basic phone for the meantime until sales with verizon ect drop and then they will give us what we want.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] sneakysolidbake:
As far as comparisons I would say screenwise x2/d3 is below average, inc2 is average and charge is above average.

For mod-ability x2/d3 is below average, charge is average, and inc2 is above average.

For other hardware related items, each phone has its own merits and shortcomings: charge has a really nice screen, 4g, but low ram. Inc2 is really well rounded overall but lacks 4g. X2/d3 both have dual cores, have sub par screens, d3 has a nice keyboard, no 4g, but get good reception (or so i hear).

Sent from my debloated ep1q charge......bro.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] ashclepdia:
I was highly considering the inc2 and kinda wish I would have although I do love my x2. I am going to be purchasing a phone sometime around october just so I can have another toy to mess around with. Gonna take some saving to get the money for a full retail priced phone tho.

do anyone know if I get a second phone if I am allowed to switch back and forth between the two as I please on my account with one number? Like if I got bionic when it comes out use it for a few months then use my x2 for a few months then go back ?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] sneakysolidbake:
Yes, I did that with a fascinate and an og droid for a while.

Sent from my debloated ep1q charge......bro.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] arlomason:
How is this stealing when one is already paying for the data they want to tether?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] psufan5:
This is basically like someone handing you a loaf of bread for 20 bucks. You want to share it with your kids but they said it was just for you... sharing is extra.

It SHOULD be illegal for them to put limitations on it, end of story. However, its right there in your agreement that the data is just for your phone.

FCC where are you?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] wetzilla:
That analogy is only true if you are on the limited data plan. If you still have an unlimited data plan it's more like you paying for one person at a buffet, and then letting your kids eat off your plate. That's not legal either.

It's shouldn't be illegal for them to set limitations on using their network, if there were no limits some people would abuse it to the point where your experience would made worse. But there should be some regulations about the types of limits they can put on.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] idefiler6:
With this post you're probably just going to have you doing it. Drop in the bucket for Big Red, and a $350 ETF for you. I suggest a different route.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] eallan:
Its not like that at all. Poor analogy. I am still using the data. Unlimited or limited, phone or pc. If I share with my neighborhood that's one thing, but if I pop open a laptop instead of a phone and browse on my own its not different.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] idefiler6:
Exactly. The only person using my wifi is me. Secured and locked.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] tarheel23:
Thoughts about tethering.

We all (or the majority of us) have high speed internet at our homes. We pay probably somewhere around $30 per month to do so. I have two wireless routers that I share with 4-8 devices at any given time. All said and done, I have 6 directv boxes, 3 PC's, 2 laptops, an ipad (sorry, it's my sister in laws), an Iconia A500 and a Playbook. They all share the same connection.

My setup probably isn't all that much different than what most of you have at home either.

All of this and my internet provider charges me a flat rate of $30 per month.

When I think of it in this persepective, I think Verizon is F'ing nuts for not allowing us to tether.

One more thought that really is completely hypocrytical of Verizon. My wife has a Blackberry Bold through Verizon. She pays the same $29.99 data plan that we all pay for our Android Devices. HOWEVER, she can tether at will through the Blackberry Bridge function of her Playbook.

Why does Verizon allow this, but won't allow Android users the same freedom?
[Motorola Droid Bionic] 86shelby:
Quote of the year right there........
[Motorola Droid Bionic] 86shelby:
Tethering plans have been around longer than the market, or android itself, for that matter. It was an option for the PPC-6700, ca. 2005....
[Motorola Droid Bionic] 86shelby:
I added minutes and 2 lines a week after the tiered plans came into effect. One line is a Droid X2, the other is a basic phone. I still have my unlimited alltel plan, but with more minutes. The new smartphone also has unlimited data.

If verizon had told me i had to change to a tiered data plan, I'd have told them to go pound sand; I'll take my $ elsewhere.

They respond very well to the threat of losing a $120+/month customer.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] LocoFreek25:
QFT

This thread should just die.
[Motorola Droid Bionic] roberte1342:
I thought there were restrictions placed on VZW when they purchased spectrum for their LTE network a few years back. Something along the lines that it must remain open to all applications regardless of device. This is misuse of pubic resources. Much the same way $200 billion of public money was handed to the the networks for the express reason to expand bandwidth and coverage a decade ago which appears to have been squandered. Now VZW wants to use what we gave them to rape us further.

Yeah, people will say if I don't like it I shouldn't use their service. But they are using our spectrum and quite frankly I want it back.

Too bad politicians care more about their lobbying money more than votes or something really could be done about it.

/rant

[tapatalk - shadow]
[Motorola Droid Bionic] dougdascenzo:
No it won't. I signed up on July 3rd for unlimited data. Then in July we were going over our monthly minutes so we switched up to the next highest family plan for one month and then back down. No problems. It is only a problem if you tweak the data plan itself.