yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well, I would certainly expect that, or not buying WP7 devices, from people who call themselves "power users".

Like I said, there are Android fanboys and butthurt WM lovers who bought WP7 devices for what they aren't but "should" be. Don't know why they bothered. There's nothing wrong with loving WM except demanding from every new OS that it should be what WM was is weird.

As for the update schedule, it would be nice but companies rarely do that kind of thing. One of the reasons is that when you promise something and then don't deliver on time the amount of negative reaction overwhelms all the positive you create by being transparent.

That's something I don't quite agree with. If MS rolls out NoDo through April, that'll be much faster than what Android can possibly offer (does every Android phone have FroYo by now?). You can't even theoretically expect WP7 to have the same level of update speed as iOS, due to multiple OEMs involved, "carrier testing" and all that crap. But nothing suggests WP7 won't have a much more consistent update schedule than Android, so the original promise still stands.

Now, I may agree that the updates for WP7 are more needed in general as marginal utility is diminishing as OS matures. But it doesn't make them any easier to do. Microsoft is doing something no other OS vendor has done before, so no wonder it's not working perfectly out of the gate. And it's also not quite realistic to expect them to go through the whole thing every two weeks.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
This is also one reason not to provide and roadmaps. I can tell you right away that you won't get smart dialing or "native speed dial". MS, on the other hand, should never acknowledge such a thing because it will cause a ton of ****-throwing in blogs all over the internet. Also, volume is set independently for notifications and media already, and while it needs improvement, you can be quite certain that it will be handled iPhone style, i.e. you won't see 15 sliders for each type of volume setting. And again acknowledging this would cause tons of unneeded debate. Discussing individual future features isn't a good way to handle product PR.

They should have had copy/paste and some sort of multitasking (real or fake, doesn't matter) out of the gate, but they were too product-centric to understand the PR importance of these things, as usual. When Microsoft talks about a feature and fails to get their message across in a positive way, they stop talking about features. :) I don't agree that it's the right thing to do but I can certainly understand.
[Windows Phone 7 General] f1restarter:
Not such a long time ago. http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-...lding-funeral-for-iphone-blackberry-10101763/
[Windows Phone 7 General] amtrakcn:
The only way to satisfy you now is getting an Android device. Feature is more important to you than experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rudyhuyn:
I like WP7 although it still has some defects
[Windows Phone 7 General] jason.hamilton:
What is Microsoft doing that no other OS vendor has done before? Created an OS that multiple OEMS are using? Not such a radical idea.

In regards to android being fragmented (not related to quote): I am not an Android Fanboy by any means(actually a blackberry user), but android can update its "fragmented" (it actually is fragmented, no doubt) OS faster then Windows can update its uniformed OS. While Android is fragmented based off of phone hardware, Windows is fragmented off of OEMs. HTC is getting their phones updated at one time while Samsung is getting theirs update at a different time while Tmobile gets their update at one time and ATT gets their update at a different time.

I think the main issue that people are turning away from WP7 is that it doesnt seem Microsoft is committed to upgrading their product. Honestly, copy and paste isnt that big of a deal. NoDo is coming w/ copy and paste, better market search, and a few bug fixes. Yet its taken them 5 to 6 months to implement something that should have been included on launch. And its STILL not out.

IMO, it just seems like Microsoft isn't thinking about the future of phones, just trying to catch up (lousily).
[Windows Phone 7 General] DavidinCT:
There has some good points that have been takenup on this thread but, right now 95% of Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 customers are not here and never even heard of XDA, PPCgeeks or any of the other mass of websites dedicated to hacking or modifying phones.

They are as we would see as Joe Six pack, the one who wants a phone for what it will do and why they choose WP7.

The business guy who checks his email and calendar every 20 min but, is a hidden gamer that loves Xbox live support. There is also the teen who HAS to be in contact with everyone at every second of the day, the facebook mixed in with everything does this and Txt messaging is great and fast. There is the soccer mom, who needs to keep in contact and the all kids schedules, never mind a card game but, still watching her young ones facebook pages...etc

Most of the people that I talk about don't even know about updates unless their geek son tells them about it and the only thing the teen is looking forward to is greater Twitter use in WP7.

What I am getting at is, it may have a lot of problems or minor bugs but, we are part of Ms's customers but, not the major part. For the most part, everything that Windows Phone 7 is claimed to do, does it pretty well.

For

MOST

customers, Windows Phone 7 does what it does very well. It's fast and smooth, It does not need the customization that Android does and it's a lot easier to use it. It's also not an Apple product that appeals to a lot of even non-techy people. It's marketplace does not have 10,000 fart apps and for the most part good quality apps.

After all, isn't that what makes a great phone ? A smooth fast interface, access to the data that you need and a good marketplace to get new programs for it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] munkeyphyst:
I have to agree. My general experience has been positive. I like my phone. For MOST wp7 users, the regular non-geeks, the phone is the bees knees. They don't know or care about nodo. I think most smart phone owners don't even know what OS their phone has.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
That's a really good post and I think we tend to forget about the Joe Six Pack's out there. But the other thing you have to keep in mind is that their Joe Six Pack friends with iPhones and Android devices see their phone and show them widgets and cool free apps as well as an actual facebook app that doesn't completely suck and front facing cameras and suddenly Joe isn't as happy about his phone as he was before.

But your point is well taken, for what average phone users want WP7 does have most of the things they'd want and use and we tend to grade on a much harsher curve since we're power users.

I think the thing is that iPhones and Android handsets are moving so fast that when Mango finally comes out there is going to be a WORLD of difference and WP7 will kind of be viewed as Nokia phones are viewed now, anachronistic. Dual-Core, video chat, 3D ****, major OS integration and PC/Tablet integration and support, 1080p video out and all this stuff doesn't even seem like it's on the horizon for WP7.

All of the tmobile stores I've seen have big ass displays of galaxy tabs and Vibrant 4G phones and MT4G all over the place and then way in the back of the store where rats and fungus dwell they have one demo HD7 you can look at sitting by the blackberrys and ****, it's sad, and average Joe Six Pack gets the idea that this phone sucks.

MS needs to step up their advertising and really speed up the phone features or they will get left behind like RIM.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
iPhone and Android owners do, they may not know what the phone is called or what version they are running, so many people I know tell me they have an "android" when I ask what phone they're using.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
They are trying to centrally update an ARM-based embedded OS put on devices by multiple OEMs. It's a pretty obvious and huge difference from both iPhone and Android.

Care to back that up with some facts? This NoDo thing has just been released, and there's uber-whining about the fact that there may be a several week long delay for some carriers. When is DHD getting 2.3, again? Even if you count January as NoDo release date rolling the thing out to all devices by April is superfast by Android standards.

Just think again: what if Android's new versions rolled out within 2 months to all devices? Would it be an improvement or deterioration?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ Android only has two devices. The DHD isn't one of them.

The Android OS had a bug, and Google swiftly fixed all infected devices, regardless of OS version.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
According to Schmidt, it has some 170 devices. You may know better than him, of course.

Which Android bug are you referring to? It has plenty of open bugs.

Also, here's what I found, and article dated 23 February 2011. A couple of quotes:

That's 2.5 months or something like that.

Furthermore,

Weeks to roll out an update to just one device, without any carrier testing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] crubbish:
There are many good points made in this thread and it's an interesting reading. And you know what, I don't think there's one person here in WP7 section truly hating WP7 as the thread title suggests. There's a number of frustrated users putting forward constructive or not so constructive criticism and then there are WP7 lovers who'll be defending their beloved OS to the end. I agree with the statement that WP7 is made to be more appealing to consumer rather than geek. But this forum is mostly filled with geeks...
[Windows Phone 7 General] thesecondsfade:
I agree with you. This forum used to be about development, hacking, etc. There are hundreds of threads about how WP7 is missing this or missing that whereas, in the WM6.x days... it was threads about developing to get what we want, not just complaining that the functionality doesn't already exist. I hate using this term but every day I visit these forums and see more and more trolls just wasting time and energy when they should be contributing toward the development of the platform.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Probably because WP7 somehow has a big problem earning people's "love".
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
That's phones RUNNING Android. The ones that say With Google. Actual Google AOSP phones are the G1, Nexus 1, and Nexus S. That's it. Everything else isn't officially supported by Google. Google phones are designed by Google.

Just Google, Google fixes bug.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
You forgot the OTA part. You don't need anything extra. You don't need a computer. Its OTA.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Whatever. Android isn't limited to the Nexus devices. Microsoft promised an improvement where all devices will get updates, and if they manage to push the first one in weeks, that'll be an improvement over what Android offers, simply because it works for all phones, not just one or two. That Google doesn't support their OS may be a nice thing for Google, but I don't see it as a benefit.

So what? Scheduling such things is normal practice.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Bull****. Can you imagine the cost to send out a OTA around the world at the same time.

I don't think you fully understand the open OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
It doesn't have anything to do with openness. OTA distribution doesn't affect costs for Google. It'll only make downloads slower, so will put less strain on their servers.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
No you said, Android isn't limited to the Nexus line. My response was, you don't understand the open OS. Google phones are limited to the Nexus line, those are the only Google Android phones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
There's not much to understand in an open OS. Nobody's responsible for anything. You can't blame Google when there's no update for your phone. Neither can you blame the OEM because he has no reason apart from bad publicity to update it. So yeah, because Microsoft is supporting their OS of course they have to get all this blogocrap for rolling out an update about as fast as Google rolls out updates for their Nexus phones.

I'm ready and willing to give them all the hell in the world for how they handle the communications with regard to the issues surrounding the update, but hey, by the industry standards this update is anything but failure to deliver on promises.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
I think iOS has both Android and MS beat as far as updates go, but that's because Apple releases all their own phones. I don't think there is a "better" way. But the difference is that Android already has the things that we are clamoring about and WP7 doesn't and won't at least until 2012 and maybe longer after that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
And the opposite is also true (WP7 has things Android doesn't), but that depends on what you're looking for.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
I don't see anything WP7 has that Android doesn't or can't emulate besides some of the transition animations and the exact way facebook is integrated into the OS. I can name a plethora of things Android handsets have or can do that WP7 cannot.
[Windows Phone 7 General] DavidinCT:
Everyone, remember, Microsoft has said they will spend over a billion dollars in ads for WP7 and it's only been out, what ? 6 months ? How many sold ? In the millions so far world wide.

Every one shut up about this. It took Apple and Google 2+ years to get someplace, they were not HITS overnight. I say everyone drop this subject and relook at it 2 years from release date.

I have put this thread in my favs and I will bump it in a year from now (if I am still alive at that time...You know that 2012 thing) then we can re-discuss this then, when WP7 is fighting for 2nd or 3rd place in the smart phone market.

Once newbie people put WP7 in their hands, play with it and see what it can do, I think Android and the iPhone could be in trouble in the long run.

Microsoft is here to stay, they are not going anywhere soon...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I don't think Microsoft ever said anything about spending 1B on ads, this was a rumor.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Transition animations that make sense, consistent UI throughout the OS including third party apps (which is something you won't get by "emulating" an OS by choosing a launcher), no need to worry that installing a silly newsreader like Pulse will drain your battery in half a day. Oh, and Zune Pass and great sound quality. Exchange sync that allows me to reliably download attachments. An Office suite that allows me to download presentations and view them on my phone as opposed to trying 15 times to download to then fail to view half the slides. A Back button that actually goes back as opposed to "sometimes back, sometimes to the home screen". You know, this whole "experience" thing.

No, I don't mean to convince you that this is more important than whatever you think is great in Android - customizing UI or what not. It just so happens that these things are important to me, and there are plenty of them in WP7.

Sure. By the sheer number of functions Android is way more powerful.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andoridkiller:
All I can Say is im getting wp7! So Its looks like WP7 is till stong! :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
shut down the presses, close this thread now, the matter is settled, this is the definitive proof we've been looking for.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
The iPhone WAS a hit overnight.

Android didn't have to compete with Android when it was released, nor did iOS have 3rd party mulit-tasking, video chat, or half the settings and customizations it does now.

WP7 came out when both Android and iOS are stronger than ever and offer so much more than WP7 does at launch or will for a few years...
[Windows Phone 7 General] sketchy9:
How about a top-notch music player that can rival the Zune Player on WP7?

-R
[Windows Phone 7 General] TheNGTV:
Don't worry, in his opinion probably crap like RockOn or Winamp competes because they have better features :rolleyes: oh and in before the argument that USB drag and drop is a better solution!

I hate to sound so jaded, but compared to WP7 the time I spent with Android... well besides customizing and customizing more, the platform itself seemed to bore me to death. SMSes took so long to load, dialer app gets so slow that you miss calls, games are horrible and marketplace support was/still is bad in tons of countries. Ugh. The battery couldn't last more than a day too.

I dumped my Magic for a Pre and it was leagues better (except the battery portion). Customization and features my ass when nothing works well. Now that the Pre ran its course I'm using the Focus, and there ARE features missing but first and foremost it's a way better smartphone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sketchy9:
I HATED the lag on my old CDMA Hero. If I tap on texts, I want them to open right away, I don't want to see a "thinking" animation. If I hang up a call I want to immediately be able to place another call, not wait 30 secs. I NEVER want to see a popup message that says "the process phone.android.com has stopped working".

Oh, and WRT games, I have one word: Ilomilo. Holy crap is that a cool game. I just bought it and am absoutely blown away and addicted. And it's not available on Android yet :-)

-R
[Windows Phone 7 General] crubbish:
Now that was funny, thanks orangekid!
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I wouldn't want to turn this thread into a speculation about future commercial success of WP7, maybe it won't even last a few years, whatever.

But with regard to features, I personally think that if MS manages to make this Mango update and push it out, there will be nothing dramatically different between WP7 and iOS/Android in terms of features. Platforms do evolve, but what new things are coming? NFC? Front facing cameras? There will be minor things, and there are tons of things like enterprise deployment features, but I just don't see how any platform can take leaps ahead of others in terms of functionality.

Experience, on the other hand, is a difficult thing to do right. That takes years years to develop, and you have to understand it first. It's even more difficult to change, especially when you have hundreds of thousands of "apps" made in a different paradigm. So I'm not sure who's years ahead of whom in this area.

If somebody developed a much better battery that would be a revolution. But I would expect improvements here from Apple, not Google or HTC.

So, in a nutshell, features aren't Microsoft's biggest worry. Trowing lots of them in is the easiest thing they can do.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Great let a old ass Hero and Magic speak for an entire OS. Be for real.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
indeed.

Let's compare a 528mhz with 288mb ram to a 1ghz snapdragon, twice the RAM device. Now that makes sense.

Hey you know what? My Coin Dozer game on my iPhone 2G laggs a little when I play it, but swipy man on WP7 is pretty smooth.

Solid proof that WP7 is wayyyy better than iOS, you needn't research any further than that...

(also, for best interest we should ignore the fact that the iPhone 4 blows out of the water any WP7 device with regards to "smoothness" or "speed")
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
nope it doesnt. We all know your agenda, but that doesn't mean you can lie about stuff. From what I've read, you don't even own an actual WP7 device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Eh, I disagree. Some of the games may be better coded and running more smoothly on iphone but the OS as a whole does not strike me as more smooth or quicker than WP7, they are about on par but due to the feedback of WP7 it truly feels smoother. That said, comparing a vibrant that is fully rooted and flashed with the latest bionix and with all lag fixes taken care of it still cannot hold a candle to either a samsung focus or an iphone 4 (I have all 3 devices in front of me at this very moment.) the Focus actually has a slightly lesser processor than the vibrant and the iphone is clocked even lower but both of the lower devices completely trump the Vibrant. People can use this argument about looks getting old and a hot chick may be hot but she's still dumb but honestly this phone does everything I need efficiently and beautifully. In a matter of a second I can check and see if I have any new emails, text messages, voicemails, or missed calls. In 3 seconds I can have already placed a call, in 3 seconds I can be on the XDA developers page, in 3 seconds I can do pretty much anything on this phone. On android in 3 seconds you can unlock the device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Microsoft hasn't managed to push anything. The first update they pushed bricked tons of phones. This one is moving slow as molasses. Apple update go to everyone at the same time. Why does Microsoft have to most so slow. Apple already has a bugfix out for iOS 4.3. Microsoft barely has NoDo out the door.

NoDo has taken longer to get delivered than the FroYo update for the Droid X and EVO 4G. That's a terrible way to start, IMO.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Apple had a pull over carriers because they were offering something that at that time was unheard of. Verizon initially rejected the iphone because of the fact that they wanted to have full control over the update process so apple went to ATT. Now they had to beg apple for rights to the phone. Yes, nodo has taken awhile, however at least I know I will be getting it. It can pretty much be guaranteed that if the evo or droidX is going to get gingerbread then it's going to have to be a port.
[Windows Phone 7 General] greenbrd:
MS is a loser company that has the unique ability to turn technologically superior devices like the Zune into market failures. Constantly being late to market after other companies have established a dominance doesn't help either. What makes anybody think it will be different with WP7?

It's amazing to me that they still don't understand how tainted their reputation is in the consumer device space. Frankly, I wonder why they are so desperate to make WP7 a consumer product vs. iPhone and Android when they could have focused on businesses first and competed only against Blackberry.

It starts at the top. MS has zero chance of turning things around while Tweedeldum Ballmer is in charge.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
And worked on others. I'm not going to defend the fact that they allowed all that **** to happen, but it was pushed for sure, otherwise it wouldn't brick anything.

If you want it you can get it right now. Not in a custom ROM or anything warranty-breaking. If you bought an unsubsidized unbranded device you'd get it. Getting an unbranded DHD won't help getting 2.3 on it. That's a difference.

The difference between Apple's and Microsoft's situations is obvious, I think.

Something like two months, if I'm not mistaken, which is awesome, but an exception rather than the rule. The Sprint WP7 handset got NoDo even faster. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] greenbrd:
Yes, Apple was offering a phone that was built upon one of the most successful consumer devices in history. Apple had already proved to the world that they knew what they were doing.

Meanwhile, MS is offering a phone that combines the Kin and the Zune on top of the legacy of Windows Mobile. It doesn't take a genius to see that merging three failures into one product isn't going to have people lining up to buy said product.