yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Thunderbolt General] Chris Hansen:
And sitting around doing nothing is much more effective? Some people's mindset dumbfounds me. Stop trolling. If you don't think it's going to be effective, then why are you here? And why keep coming back? And way to promote violating contracts... I'm sure you'd be up in arms if Verizon decided to violate your contract and start charging you for every minute you were connected to their network. :rolleyes:
[Thunderbolt General] manningfan10:
sent :D Hope this helps...
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
Anyone have ties with any blogs that could get this story going
[Thunderbolt General] Sirjacksinurbox:
It's not trolling. It's thinking logically. Theres a reason why nobody gets anywhere with emailing lead devs or people in general. companies plan for things like this. Employees sign contracts to keep their mouths shut. It's called a nondisclosure agreement. Writing this will likely achieve nothing. The blatant undertone of insulting demand will cause them to take it even less seriously. How did you get a hold of this lead devs email anyway?

Also, if you decide to seek legal action, they will bury you in red tape. That's what major corporations do. Theres a reason why they pay their lawyers a 6 or 7 figure salary, so they can deal with all the people who try and start stuff.

magneticzero has the right idea. I would even go so far as to say he is a realist. In an ideal world, yes they would hand over the kernel, but this isn't an ideal world.

Just wait until it comes out. It's not like they are stalling on purpose, and even if they are, it's not like anybody can do anything about it.
[Thunderbolt General] Master™:
I do.. give me 40-50 minutes.
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
We are going to get no where if we don't get kernel source so it doesn't hurt to try. Thank you to everyone who is helping
[Thunderbolt General] Str0ntium:
As others have echo'd, if the blog community makes this a top priority story, they will most likely 'magically' release the code.

Never underestimate bad PR. It's the only leverage consumers have. But, it's also very powerful.
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
Please post links to any blogs that write this up. I'd love to read
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
We need engadget to write one and XDA to write one
[Thunderbolt General] DroidDont:
Anyone bother to contact the FSF or EFF? They'd be interested.

For those of you who seem to have a brick where your brain should be: Releasing the kernel source isn't an option. HTC chose to use Android and the Linux kernel, and by doing so they agreed to the licenses, including the GPL governing the release of the kernel source.

We're under no obligation to play nicely when HTC is willfully violating the license they voluntarily agreed to abide by.
[Thunderbolt General] Sirjacksinurbox:
This may be true. But you have to take a look at their public market breakdowns. The majority of people who buy these phones are not people looking to gain root access to their phones, or mod their phones in any way for that matter. The majority are blind, dumb users. They are blissfully ignorant. As long as they can use their apps without much else getting in the way, they are happy. Thats who the major phone corporations aim to please because it pushes the most sales, and they proved that by locking down the Thunderbolt. If they were pro root and rom, they would of handed us a completely unlocked OS and firmware.

IMO, I dont see them releasing the kernel any faster just because we demand it from them. Thats the exact ideology that the internet instills in so many people today, especially people like us (grey hat users). Unless some great power (ie.: Anonymous) gets involved (and I really wish they would), there really isnt a chance of it being released just because we ask for it rather brashly. HTC devs, or any other phone corporation dev for that matter, have far more to worry about. The only people that get to decide when they publicly release the kernel are some pencil pushing, tie wearing, higher-up douche's.

On another note, its unclear whether or not HTC is playing nicely yet. Is there a time frame by which a company must abide to release the source? Also, is their HTC Sense UI considered proprietary?
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
Anyone know how to get ahold of anonymous
[Thunderbolt General] Sirjacksinurbox:
I honestly have no clue... ive never been in contact with them. They seem like a great organization though.
[Thunderbolt General] DroidDont:
Sense is proprietary. We're only talking about the kernel source. GPL does not allow for a grace period: if the binary is available, the source must be publicly available. If you're not ready to release the source, you shouldn't release the binary.
[Thunderbolt General] DroidDont:
Um... ?

/10char
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
He is a hacker that has done some amazing/horrible things to big companies that think they don't need to follow rules.
[Thunderbolt General] kdb424:
I have sent a friendly email hoping to get a response. I will post results if I see any.
[Thunderbolt General] eallan:
You misunderstand quite badly.
[Thunderbolt General] Sirjacksinurbox:
Thanks for the info on that. I was always curious about where the line began to blur with Android OS's.

What do you need clarifying?

Just to clarify, Anonymous is a whole group. I constantly back them and their efforts.
[Thunderbolt General] Master™:
http://briefmobile.com/thunderbolt-kernel-source-still-unreleased
[Thunderbolt General] :
Everyone should send this link to Kotaku, engadget, gizmodo, etc!!!
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
Sent to engadget now off to gizmodo. Please spread the word
[Thunderbolt General] Str0ntium:
Thing is, it doesn't matter what their ideology is about this. Bad press, is well...bad press. I guarantee that if this shows up, in a negative light, on enough 'most read' blogs that they will certainly reconsider their standing on the release time line of this kernel.

But, this is all subjective. And, only my opinion.
[Thunderbolt General] Mean Bro Greene:
Anonymous is legion. They are many, yet they are one.
[Thunderbolt General] DroidDont:
You forgot: overrated collection of jobless assclowns.

On-topic: Slashdot would probably be interested in a submission about this, since HTC is a serial offender when it comes to not releasing kernel source.
[Thunderbolt General] nosympathy:
It really saddens me, but helps me to understand the state of our country when I see the things posted in this thread.

People who watch other people break the law, and just because "eventually" they will do the right thing, don't care.

As for bad press, it is the only reason certain people still look like okay people, in the face of failing numbers. The press has so much control it isn't funny. Last thing HTC wants is a bunch of bad press, it is the kind of thing that can make or break anyone.
[Thunderbolt General] magneticzero:
This thread is a constant reminder of why this section of the forums contains the most elitist assholes that feel they are entitled to everything....im dying inside with laughs...well worth it...carry on
[Thunderbolt General] Sirjacksinurbox:
Such a powerful sounding statement. Love it.

When I was talking about ideology, I was referring to the ideology of the internet, not HTC. By ideology, I mean that the internet is a place where you can get things very quickly. By growing up in the information age, we are used to getting information, files, and new almost instantly. This can be a very double edged sword a lot of days out of the year.

Not even going to touch the comment about Anonymous...

If HTC are such "serial offenders" when it comes to not releasing their kernel source, then why hasnt something been done about it all the other times? Did everyone cause such a fuss all of the other times?
[Thunderbolt General] nosympathy:
we are elitist assholes because there is a Law, and we think people/companies should be held to it?

Lemme come kill your family and then see how you feel when they decide I shouldn't go to jail anytime soon because I am not "ready" too, even though I will go eventually.
[Thunderbolt General] magneticzero:
Im no lawyer but every country is different. I bet they been through this all legally before so this is nothing new to them. Fight the good fight i guess.
[Thunderbolt General] cynikaloptimist:
I totally agree

It has been ONLY 10 days. Yes, we would love to have the kernel source - the Incredible S launched (SORRY - not here in the U.S.) on Feb 23 and dropped the source on March 23. I believe that it is reasonable for them to release within one month. I have no doubt that HTC will be dropping the source code and kernel inside that time frame. Calm Down. You are making yourselves look bad.
[Thunderbolt General] nosympathy:
looking bad because we want them to follow the law...sure sure...
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
You agree to legal terms its not like they promised they sign legal contracts
[Thunderbolt General] Sirjacksinurbox:
I was going to see who magneticzero was calling an elitist asshole, but it seems nosympathy has already claimed the prize...

I agree with magneticzero though, their PR team probably goes through crap like this with every phone launch... it is pretty entertaining to watch people squirm though...
[Thunderbolt General] Str0ntium:
I say screw the blogs.

Go to the source. Someone contact Google. Tell them that HTC is violating their policy.

I highly doubt that HTC wants to lose their license to sell Google branded phones.

I'm pretty sure that if Google gets wind of this, they will not be pleased either...
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
We just need to get the bloggers going and cause pr hell. If you don't support this then there's no reason to comment here.
[Thunderbolt General] magneticzero:
Google doesnt even follow their own policies lol
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
We just need to get people writing about it
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
We have over 2000 views on this thread is hope people are at least emailing htc. Or Getting ahold of bloggers
[Thunderbolt General] magneticzero:
or the same people clicking refresh over and over to make the numbers look bigger +1
[Thunderbolt General] gregdalfonso:
This is my solution. I still have time to return my phone. If the source isn't released by the end of my return date, I will return this phone, and just wait for the bionic. Why wait for a kernel to overclocking and undervolt when I can buy a faster phone with better battery life? Seems simple.

I feel htc has been slacking in general. The thunderbolt is a good phone, but it is far behind the curve of newer phones in general.
[Thunderbolt General] jcase:
Incredible S came out before Thunderbolt (ie in .eu)
[Thunderbolt General] miketoasty:
Haha go to a locked bootloader and tell me how it feels. I came from the droid x and will never look back. Motorola locks down their devices like crazy. Good luck with doing simple things such as recovery.
[Thunderbolt General] Zshazz:
Speaking of which... why would someone go to a phone where the source code to the kernel won't do you any good from a phone that the source code didn't get released fast enough?

I mean, I get it, it's a dual core. It's "exciting" ... but I have yet to see any reason to get a dual core until app developers start making multicore enabled apps. I'd much prefer to have custom kernels/CM7 than dual core.

HTC, release the Kraken ... I mean, code.
[Thunderbolt General] tazzpatriot:
U seem like a unhappy dude .. every post I see from u is negative .. do u need a hug or something ?
[Thunderbolt General] DroidDont:
1) GPL isn't a law or statute; HTC are in violation of a license;

2) They're consistently in violation of this license - a license they chose and agreed to abide by - by withholding kernel source once a device is released.

You may have a different take, including the opinion that there's a grace period, but your opinion isn't what matters here. Read the license, then come back and be an apologists if you so choose.

There's a reason XDA has the reputation it does, and the ijits in this thread are doing much to verify my suspicion that these forums are of no value.
[Thunderbolt General] Sirjacksinurbox:
He doesn't need a hug. He has a grip on reality better than most people in this thread.

How many other companies are consistently in violation of the GPL?

Do your self a favor and do a google search on HTC GPL violations. I see articles going back to November of 2009, and thats just the first page. My point is this: they have been doing this since the earlier days of android. All the while receiving "bad press." It's as if they don't care about the GPL. If they didn't care then with all the "bad press," what makes you think they are going to care now?
[Thunderbolt General] tazzpatriot:
I'm not talking about just this thread lol everywhere I look . He just don't seem happy lol
[Thunderbolt General] magneticzero:
;););););) <------10 chars
[Thunderbolt General] Sirjacksinurbox:
Well by the look of his avatar, I guess you could make the assumption that he has a slightly sour disposition... I would still drink with the guy though.
[Thunderbolt General] tazzpatriot:
I look at it this way... Everyone has an opinion ..and has the right to express it :)
[Thunderbolt General] Virtum:
Getting back to the point of this thread, I've emailed Martin as well.

As was mentioned previously it doesn't matter if they are only 'a bit late.' With the GPL late is late...
[Thunderbolt General] tazzpatriot:
I've never followed a thread like this ... Does emailing them really help? Just a question .. not trying to stir anything up
[Thunderbolt General] Sirjacksinurbox:
I will also drink to that. (the free speech part)

IMO, no, it won't help. I wouldn't be surprised if that that is an address on behalf of the lead dev that is carefully monitored by a some person in the company. I've worked for two decent sized companies, and each time they had an address on the internet, it and all of the other devs emails that were listed were sorted to HR behind the mail firewall.
[Thunderbolt General] psufan5:
Just make this a point on engadget and gizmodo... HTC will release it shortly there after :)
[Thunderbolt General] tazzpatriot:
deleted post lol
[Thunderbolt General] DroidDont:
See, you're still wrong.
[Thunderbolt General] miketoasty:
Emailed as well. If anyone gets a reply back please post it on the forum.
[Thunderbolt General] funkybside:
I disagree. The don't get away with stuff because of apathy, its because of the golden rule - he who has the gold...
[Thunderbolt General] miketoasty:
Just read an interesting article. The HTC Inspire 4g was released February 13th and the Kernel Source was released February 25th. So 12 days from a phone that is basically the same as the Thunderbolt (At least from a side by side comparison.) Which means that if HTC continues on this trend we should see the Thunderbolt kernel source tomorrow. I doubt this will happen but it's something to look forward to.
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
I'll be happy to see it tomorrow but I still want oem to release things on time
[Thunderbolt General] m00nshake:
This phone had much more buzz surrounding it than the Inspire, and I would imagine that source will be released soon enough. If you look at HTC versus other android device manufacturers, they are pretty good about releasing source for devs to play with. I owned the Samsung Vibrant and it still didn't have an even semi working AOSP build after six months because Samsung wouldn't release source. It might still be that way. But the HTC Evo, Inspire, Shift, Desire, G2, MT4G all have AOSP builds, so I have no doubt that the Thunderbolt will have it soon enough.
[Thunderbolt General] droidboy850:
Emailed for the cause!
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
I want my roms and htc is really bending me over. Haha is it so hard to follow gpl. Honestly I'm finding it a joke that a huge company can't push out a source code
[Thunderbolt General] thesilverhawk:
I think its terrifying how many people are just like let it go, who cares if they are breaking license agreements. That is the exact reason companies do not comply with things.
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
We as a community need to protest companies taking advantage of the gpl and of us. We control the market not them. We brought back motorola and then they locked us out. Now look at htc. Tried to lock us out and holding the source code. It's becoming a joke. If they think ill buy another phone from them with there recent actions then there wrong. I hope lg doesn't pull this crap. It's not carriers doing it. It's the manufacturers getting madly that we do what we want on there products that we one. End rant
[Thunderbolt General] sygnous:
Sending my email :)
[Thunderbolt General] miketoasty:
Its not just HTC well sort of. Motorola releases the source code but locks us out of the kernel. Thus I am on an HTC and not a Droid X (my original Android phone). I would rather wait months and be able to do things with my phone than be locked out forever.

That being said we also cannot just roll over and let HTC do what they want there is a reason for the GPL and its to prevent things like this from happening.

It's like getting an x box and being locked out of x box live until Microsoft sees it fit. Not everyone uses x box live but it is still a feature that you should have.
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
I feel like we need to get this into someone's hands who can do something about this. We get no where by being stuck in a forum. I did the email so he could see how we cared. Idc if he ignored but he will see that the source should be released on time
[Thunderbolt General] mthorn79:
I thought I read somewhere that HTC has 45 days after initial release of the phone to release the codes...orrr was that for something else?
[Thunderbolt General] hackercity:
SENT...

The faster we get the kernel the better the ROMS...
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
That's a lie. There trying to say it's licensed under Apache but it's not. It's licensed under GPL
[Thunderbolt General] nosympathy:
technically by the GPL, they have 0 days after the kernal is released to release the source code.
[Thunderbolt General] gregdalfonso:
I have a semi-off topic question.

Why does the cell manufacturer want to keep the kernel source private? Is it so competition can't see what they are doing? Does it indirectly hurt their revenue in some way?

Htc isn't the only culprit in this. LG has done this with some phones and so has Motorola, however they all eventually release the code.

I'm just curious to know their motive for continuously dragging their feet when its as easy as clicking an upload button to release the code.
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
They don't want us to make better roms and to have full features of the phone.
[Thunderbolt General] jvward:
Sent the email.
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
Thank you
[Thunderbolt General] kalius:
Sent mail. Hope we get the source code soon.
[Thunderbolt General] nosympathy:
I doubt they like the fact that the Dev community is 10 times better at coding/rom making/kernel making/etc. than any of their employees.

I was with the Evo 4G when Team Win cracked the WiMax coding, since HTC wouldn't release the source code, that allowed us to use 4G on AOSP roms.

I have seen some really talented devs, and they sadly are probably not making close to what they should for their knowledge.
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
My rant will be on uncutandroid ill post soon
[Thunderbolt General] Gunnarsaxon:
Email sent.
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
Rumor is that lte coding will be in kernel source code. I'm hoping so
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
Send all email replies to justin@androidpolice.com
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
Let's go!!!! http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/0...-ready-rather-than-when-devices-are-released/
[Thunderbolt General] drpizz:
I sent Martin a request to make the source available. I would really like cifs.ko (among other things) for this device.
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
HTC isn't the only android developer that holds back code. Even Google does it with Honey Comb (which is currently used on the Xoom) http://phandroid.com/2011/03/24/google-withholding-honeycomb-source-from-developers-out-of-concern-for-user-experience/. I think part of the reason for the holdup is possibly linked to their problems with Oracle and companies like HTC taking note and making sure their code additions are looked over well enough that it doesnt give Oracle any fuel to add to the fire.

Though this doesnt exactly forgive them for not giving it out ASAP, remember that the thunderbolt had issues and was probably still getting firmware updates pretty close to launch so code auditing probably wasn't a huge priority at the time.
[Thunderbolt General] kdb424:
Isn't sloppy code better than no code? I mean, devs here can make it lot cleaner and still expand it even if they need to do some extra work. Even with the extra work it'd take less time than HTC at this rate...
[Thunderbolt General] alexdw369:
http://developer.htc.com/

Source Code appears to be up.

Thanks goes to uthinkisay, hero for the night ;) ...he found it first.
[Thunderbolt General] yareally:
I'd agree, sloppy code is better than nothing, but I was more referring to GPL or any other violations that might have accidentally happened in the development that Oracle would love to find if they could in order to fuel their legal battles with Google over the Android platform.
[Thunderbolt General] jamesfrom818:
Woohoo!

Awesome
[Thunderbolt General] Master™:
I don't think it would of came out near as fast without this thread and posting it on blogs, along with emailing him..

Good job guys(:
[Thunderbolt General] kdb424:
Amazing! Great job all. Thank you! (did my part too of course) Cyanogenmod 7 will be on my phone hopefully be the end of the day!
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
Well this can be closed now thank you everyone
[Thunderbolt General] dino325:
Great Job guys. This is truly the most amazing community man. You guys rock.. Cant wait for this device to blow up in terms of development! Woohoo!
[Thunderbolt General] DroidDont:
HTC's reading of the GPL, as evidenced by the emails posted on Androidpolice, point to an intentional misreading to benefit their interests. This notion of a grace period is complete fabrication and isn't supported by FSF nor kernel copyright holders.

I think they need to have attorneys view their licenses, not PR flacks.
[Thunderbolt General] peddigree:
on of the most amazing communities there is to get the jobe done :)
[Thunderbolt General] g00s3y:
EXACTLY what I was going to say. Where are the 2 tools who just kept saying it will never happen ITT? This shows how great of a community XDA really is.
[Thunderbolt General] dkoss:
I guess this argument is over.
[Thunderbolt General] DroidDont:
I can't emphasize how important it is to get the FSF and mainline kernel developers with a (c) stake in the kernel involved when this happens again.

HTC's violation of the GPLv2 puts them at a distinct competitive advantage for a number of reasons. However, it's the license they voluntarily chose to use. Before they continue to let their support staff offer legal interpretations on behalf of HTC, they should probably enlist the services of an attorney familiar with software licensing and the GPL. HTC certainly wouldn't let anyone other than their retained legal staff interpret other licenses or contracts for them, so I'm uncertain why they think it's reasonable with regards to the GPL.

This "grace period" is a fabrication designed to hinder the release of the source, not a misreading or interpretation.
[Thunderbolt General] trebb:
Woot! Go us.
[Thunderbolt General] mthorn79:
You mean Nightlies right? It took them awhile to release a stable ROM for the Droid.

Sent from my Tbolt from Tapatalk
[Thunderbolt General] infernodash:
Thunderbolt is really turning out to be a really amazing purchase for me. It's lead me to XDA and I must say, I'm happy to be a part of this community. The letters worked, and the fruits of effort were rewarded. What a good way to start the morning, hearing news like this.
[Thunderbolt General] fchowd0696:
just curious.... does the kernel source code include the lte code so that roms like cm7 will be easy to implement 4g?
[Thunderbolt General] papi92:
Yes it does.