yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Thunderbolt General] mthe0ry:
The unlimited LTE thing is a sales point. If you have a network that is only 20% utilized, you're going to sell no-cap contracts until you bring that number way up. Then you try and increase the margins (with cap plans) on the last 25%.

Any speculation on when LTE goes to capped for new customers is speculation probably because verizon itself doesn't know when it will reach the "magic number" of enough subscribers to make it worth it to end the unlimited plan selling point.

LTE is relatively new and just from my anecdotal experience most people are not flocking to it. TB is still the only LTE handset. It will probably take a year for word to get out on how much faster LTE is than 3g, and ways to take advantage of the increased speed. Again, from Verizon's perspective, you want to leave off the caps for as long as is necessary for people to evangelize and increase utilization to at least 50%, and then throw the caps on the night before the consumer base decides 4g is the minimum acceptable standard (3g is still acceptable, most people are buying 3g phones today)
[Thunderbolt General] Breezer23:
Verizon is really pinching pennies at the consumers expense lately. Granted, 4G speeds are absolutely insane so I can see the need to do it.

I feel they should leave it unlimited but throttle it down to 3G speeds at a certain amount of data usage is reached.
[Thunderbolt General] ThunderStick:
Ok, looks as if unlimited 4g is not ending any time soon.

I really wish people could stop the speculations and stop posting in the thread.

Damn, I just posted in this thread...
[Thunderbolt General] nerozehl:
Very well written and I agree with you 100%. I don't think they'll be capping it anytime soon, and I think that when they do, the customers who are already on a contract will be grandfathered. After all, it is a contract.
[Thunderbolt General] :
+1, average verizon user probably still has a flip phone!
[Thunderbolt General] ryocoon:
Since this thread had already been necro'd to the front again, I won't mind bumping it. But... _THIS_ Spoken for truth. I believe Sprint (or is it T-Mobile?) does that. Unlimited data, but over a certain percentile cap it will throttle you back. This caps/slows the hotspotters/P2P-leechers when they go above and beyond, while leaving the rest of us with high speeds. Mostly this is a measure to prevent abuse of the network in my opinion. However, a truly unlimited account should be available in this form for LTE (in my opinion, bean-counters will argue otherwise).
[Thunderbolt General] 1234567188:
Can we just let this die?, the title is misleading and as far as I'm concerned there is no truth in the rumor. 4g is cheaper then 3g so If I had to guess they'll go with tiered 3g and unlimited 4g anyway.
[Thunderbolt General] dodgerslim:
They changed that, also. You only have 14 days to return.
[Thunderbolt General] orcsbane13:
I don't think they'll force us out of unlimited 4G but if they do then I'll return this phone and just pick up a dinc2 when it comes out in a few weeks. :-)
[Thunderbolt General] DroidDont:
Posted this elsewhere, and I think it mostly applies here (though it's not in context).
[Thunderbolt General] asenduk:
New Verizon customer here.. If they take away my unlimited data, then I'm out! Back to Sprint
[Thunderbolt General] GermanGuy:
You only have 14 days to return the phone.
[Thunderbolt General] bogatyr:
Not if you bought it with certain AMEX cards. AMEX will take it back up to like 3 or 6 months later. They also refund restocking fees too.

That's why I buy all my phones on an AMEX, saved my butt when Motorola had a $100 discount on the Xoom. Returned to Verizon and had AMEX credit me the $70+ restocking fee.
[Thunderbolt General] magnafides:
30 days for Californian residents.

Which cards? Do you have any more info?
[Thunderbolt General] bogatyr:
I use the Gold Plus card. The Gold might have it too. Also you can buy the service from them for a fee too, I think $50/yr for other cards.

I just know my card costs me $150/yr and I get more than double that back in points and other card perks - I use it for every purchase I make. It isn't a credit card though, you have to pay the balance in full each month.

https://www212.americanexpress.com/...n_allccsg_shareddetails&type=intbenefitdetail

Doesn't mention the restocking fee coverage, but I called them to verify prior to returning my Xoom and filing the claim for it.
[Thunderbolt General] PJnc284:
You may be able to return it after that date but Verizon isn't going to reset your contracts if you return it 3 months down the road. (for those who don't pay full retail)
[Thunderbolt General] tivoking:
Thunderbolt at Amazonwireless for $175

Just ordered a Thunderbolt from Amazonwireless for $175. No tax.

Wont ship until Apr. 1-4, hope I can still activate it under the $29.99 unlimited plan.
[Thunderbolt General] bogatyr:
If they drop unlimited and don't grandfather us in, I'll be dropping Verizon that day on the spot.

Though I really doubt they're dropping unlimited already unless we royally F-ED their network over the weekend and they need to put caps in to avoid iPhone on ATT style breakdowns.
[Thunderbolt General] distortedloop:
It does seem an unusual move, given this is the first LTE phone released and it's only been out a week.

On the other hand, LTE data seems to have some serious issues sporadically throughout the day for me, so I also wonder if they really underestimated their capacity/ability to deal with bandwidth demands. Lots of folks complaining of 4G not responding, then downgrading to 1tx, etc..
[Thunderbolt General] nosympathy:
the receipt I have from best buy says 30 for mobile phones.
[Thunderbolt General] imneveral0ne:
i just called a third time for good measure, and they all said there is no information stating that they are ending their unlimited 3G/4G data plans or changing prices.

and i dont think the salespeople at the stores have anymore info than veriozon does
[Thunderbolt General] distortedloop:
Some jurisdictions (like California) regulate a 30 day return period on cellular phones. Some companies (like Costco and maybe BestBuy) have their own return policies that extend beyond manufacturers. Not sure if Ohio is a 30 day state or BestBuy just being nice.
[Thunderbolt General] bogatyr:
My data was flawless until last night. Then it became sporadic and I switched back to my home ISP which hasn't been removed just yet. So there definitely could be a demand issue as more people bought the phone over the weekend.

EDIT: This is in the Metro Detroit LTE zone.
[Thunderbolt General] weiln12:
Best Buy will take the phone back up to 30 days later. However, the contract with Verizon only gives you 14 days to get out of the contract. So if you want to take th T-Bolt back on day 25 and get a DInc instead you can, but you'll still be on contract with Verizon.

Best Buy reiterated this several times with me during the process, but I understand not everyone has the same experience.
[Thunderbolt General] bogatyr:
But this is about them modifying our contracts which, as far as I know, lets you drop the contract without ETF.
[Thunderbolt General] spac3m0nk3y:
Crap, my upgrade day is Thursday, March 24th. I hope it does start after Thursday, otherwise, I'm screwed.
[Thunderbolt General] PJnc284:
The only way I've seen in the contract that gets you out is the adverse effect clause assuming they make a change it and effects you financially. Data is a feature and not really part of the contract since it can be dropped at any time by activating a phone that doesn't require it.
[Thunderbolt General] rnot:
This would really suck, I was planning on upgrading to this on Friday.

Found this doing a quick Google search ...

http://www.droid-life.com/2011/03/1...-on-march-25-from-unlimited-to-5gb-for-49-99/

The $49 soon to be capped data plan appears to be for "non-contracted customers", but the $29 unlimited is still available to other customers? Doesn't make much sense maybe somebody else can clarify this.
[Thunderbolt General] bogatyr:
The document I signed included all features in it and referred to features in the agreement section at the bottom just above where I signed.
[Thunderbolt General] PJnc284:
It also says they reserve the right to change it but doesn't necessarily give you an instant out.
[Thunderbolt General] magnafides:
A data cap with an overage fee is certainly a "materially adverse" change to the contract; they would have a VERY tough time trying to win that battle. It would be similar to increasing text message prices, for which many many people were able to successfully avoid ETF.

In any case, I think this is a moot point; I doubt VZW will try to pull unlimited from those that are already under contract. The real question is whether or not you'd be grandfathered in even after signing another contract in 1-2 years (ala AT&T).
[Thunderbolt General] lorijuan1024:
it says it in the verizon quote that you just put up obviously its going to affect everyone so i doubt they will do that because than they just game you a $700 phone with no early termination fee for 200 they will do like at&t and grandfather so they dont lose profit and customers
[Thunderbolt General] nosympathy:
Can Verizon Wireless Change This Agreement or My Service?

We may change prices or any other term of your Service or this agreement at any time,but we'll provide notice first, including written notice if you have Postpay Service. If you use your Service after the change takes effect, that means you're accepting the change. If you're a Postpay customer and a change to your Plan or this agreement has a material adverse effect on you, you can cancel the line of Service that has been affected within 60 days of receiving the notice with no early termination fee.

pretty sure that is an instant out.
[Thunderbolt General] kendive:
Yep sure does sound like it... But where are ya gonna go??? I think Verizon has the best coverage right now and ATT buying T-Mobile really sucks.
[Thunderbolt General] bogatyr:
Yeah but if we keep them, what does that say? Bend us over all you want? I might resign up with a standard dumbphone for voice service, but my internet needs will go to Metro PCS who offers 4G in Metro Detroit too.
[Thunderbolt General] PJnc284:
Then it would go to proving that it's materially adverse. Verizon changes the FUSC every quarter. It may go up, it may go down. When people call and complain about it, they just credit the difference back each month and generally don't let you out.

But as said above, there's 0% chance it'll impact current contracts. The real question is if/how they will grandfather it beyond your contract term. Currently it looks like it's being billed just as any other smartphone data plan contrary to Verizon saying it'd be a 4G LTE data plan. I think they purposefully left it vague.
[Thunderbolt General] lorijuan1024:
check this out just found it lol do they really have LTE? do they mirror Verizon?

if they do do you think that would be an option to tak out LTE phone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH2bbf3MCBw
[Thunderbolt General] bogatyr:
They definitely offer LTE 4G in the Metro Detroit area, their map is near identical to Verizon's so I assume they lease Verizon's network or something like that. You used to be able to take phones from other CDMA providers and they would modify them for you to work on their network.

Either way, that video seals the deal if Verizon changes and doesn't grandfather us. 8-10MBit is slower than Verizon but enough to beat my home ISP for speed and price.
[Thunderbolt General] lorijuan1024:
and its $45 but i know the evo cant use the 4g because the wimax so maybe i will be taking the thunderbolt to metro to get their LTE if plans start changing
[Thunderbolt General] nosympathy:
unless something changes, after my 2 year contract is up, assuming sprint has switched to LTE like they claim they are going too, and assuming their LTE coverage isn't as crappy as their Wimax, and assuming they keep their, unlimited means unlimited and why shouldn't it be unlimited mentality, and assuming verizon goes to teird data, that would be what I'd do. :D
[Thunderbolt General] PJnc284:
that's a lot of assuming. lol
[Thunderbolt General] lorijuan1024:
interesting assumption lol
[Thunderbolt General] bogatyr:
Their unlimited everything, 4G LTE plan is $60. They have a basic one for $40 and a middle road one for $50.

http://www.metropcs.com/plans/default.aspx?tab=family
[Thunderbolt General] Robertjm:
Should this rumor be legit it would mean they're making the change just prior to their second LTE phone being released (Samsung Droid Charge preorders on Thursday rumored for Costco).

If this would be an attempt to push even more Tbolt sales you would expect press releases screaming the news to High Heavan!!
[Thunderbolt General] eagle17:
i have seen some sporatic issues in the dc area.. but I do not have the same problems with my novatel lte modem so i think it is an issue with the phone... maybe some type of power savings... I wonder if the next crop of lte phones will have issues like this...

also if they don't allow us to grandfather they shouldn't have a problem letting us out of the contract completely without an ETF,.
[Thunderbolt General] ddarvish:
Everyone says in california its still 30 days to return a phone but every corp store i have gone to or called says 14. are they misinformed? whats the deal with that?
[Thunderbolt General] luckman212:
where can I download/print/view a copy of my contract? I didn't get one when I bought the phone @ the store..... :mad:
[Thunderbolt General] :
+1
[Thunderbolt General] jacobk:
if anyone is waiting to order untill they get paid you can always do what i did and order the phone online from verizon and have it charged to your next bill
[Thunderbolt General] javawolfpack:
It seemed to me that if you activate after 3/25 then you'll have to pay 49.99/mo for unlimited vs those who currently have contracts/plans w/ the 29.99/mo unlimited data. Still as mentioned before a surcharge or increased cost for 4G isn't unreasonable... and it's only $20 month more for at least a 10x speed improvement in data speeds. So if that's something your wanting then it your probably willing to pay for it and if not then you can not get 4G.

At least that's how I read it.

The question is if you don't get your phone before they change the data plans do you still get the 29.99 unlimited rate? I know a friend of mine got a quasi smartphone ordered before they started requiring all smartphones to have a data plan and she got them to honor their plans/etc before the change as that's when she ordered her phone. So here's hoping that'd be the case for 4G plan pricing too for those of you still waiting for your phones to ship.
[Thunderbolt General] bogatyr:
Mine was on their site at:

www.vzw.com/messagecenter
[Thunderbolt General] PJnc284:
The customer agreement can be found here
[Thunderbolt General] imneveral0ne:
Wish i could charge it to my account. You have to be a verizon member for more than 6 months though :-\
[Thunderbolt General] Philosophre:
Hahaha I just read the droid-life link. If this is where the op got his info then he just created unreasoned worry.

1. That article came out on the 17th and from what I see nowhere else has this.

2. It is for off contract people, so it doesn't effect the people who are getting this phone via upgrade or new line.

3. It is droid-life, one of the less accurate places for info..

So people relax. Unless you are off contract then worry a little.
[Thunderbolt General] PJnc284:
yeah, the info leaked recently is for those who paid full retail and have data only plans. Remember seeing a better document somewhere but can't find it.
[Thunderbolt General] adrynalyne:
The OP works for Verizon, and was informed yesterday.

He isn't a lowly CSR. ;)

Some more confirmation would be nice, but this imo holds more credence than what a blogger says.
[Thunderbolt General] robdec17:
agreed about droid-life :)
[Thunderbolt General] mexiken:
Uh, signing a contract does JUST that, guarantees your pricing. So your Biz rep makes no sense. Unless VZW is gonna let EVERYONE who is under a contract with TBolt out of contract for making a material change, you have unlimited at least until you upgrade again.
[Thunderbolt General] TeH PLAYA:
So here is my question:

What if I order the Bolt before Thursday 3/24 from an online retailer or from Verizon themselves, however, the phone is on backorder so that I will not receive the actual device until after 3/24, would I still be offered the unlimited 4G data plan when I activate the device after 3/24, given that I did order the phone before the said deadline?

I wonder if it would be better to just order the phone directly from VZW because of the looming deadline?

Amazon right now has it for cheaper, so that's why I ask.

Thanks. I still love my DInc tho, lol.
[Thunderbolt General] mexiken:
You could also go into the store where you purchased (if you purchased) and request to see your "signature" which if they're not idiots should know how to bring it up and what you sign is the terms of your contract.
[Thunderbolt General] mexiken:
That question was asked during roundtable to which it was replied that when you order, whether you get the phone right then and there or not, you are adding the FEATURES when creating that order, and so the unlimited data plan SHOULD be added to it. But we will shall see.
[Thunderbolt General] I Am Marino:
We have a winner.

Sent from my Incredible with the XDA Premium App.
[Thunderbolt General] mexiken:
I do have a disclaimer:

The information might be off. I had a tip from the same person that the TBolt was to launch before V Day and it was delayed. The 4G MiFi's were to also launch with iPhone 4's, but didn't. The problem is, I can't go back and ask this person, "hey, remember what you told X person on Monday, is it still true today, Wednesday ????"

I do believe the person giving the info to be informing us with good intentions. In the off chance he's just saying it to spur us on, well, its just not likely.

I think, and this is just me speculating now, that whats going on is they're going to coincide the MiFi launches with the cap. Since the plans are 50 for 5 GB and 80 for 10 GB, it would be more easily marketed and align all 4G access. But then again, its just my theory.

Like, I said, it could be off, but I would take this person's words for it. They manage A LOT of important people who this information directly relates to.

I've also seen where Verizon makes a change to data plans, and it starts the day before or the day that the plan changes, so it might go down that way too. I guess we'll have to see how accurate my source is this time around :rolleyes:

P.S. The "lowly" CSR's Adrynalyne refers to are the very same ones who answer your calls whenever you call Verizon over the phone....
[Thunderbolt General] Russ36363:
But for example, if you were upgrading from a phone that requires no data plan, then you may not have been asked about this when ordering. That's what happened to me, I ordered it but since my line was coming from no data plan, my phone should be arriving today but I still have no data plan active on it.

Also, it matters whether the 3G unlimited will automatically count for 4G unlimited, I've seen conflicting information regarding that so far.
[Thunderbolt General] imneveral0ne:
So, this just has to do with the data only customers? like if i tried to go in there say, friday, and buy the thunderbolt outright and add it to my account. would that affect the pricing i would recieve?
[Thunderbolt General] mexiken:
Ah, I see your point. Your logic is flawed however. There is NO other plan, and you don't get asked about data, it automatically populates when you order the phone.

Think of it like you buying a car and they force you to take the paint protection package with it. If not, you can't buy the car. Works the same way, its automatically added. You MUST have a data plan on all smartphones.

Now, since you don't have a smartphone, that can throw a kink in things. BUT, like I said, once you input that phone, the appropriate features get tied to the order, and what happens when you actually get the phone is merely the activation of those features already present. As in, you are ACCEPTING what you ordered. As long as you order before then, you should be in the clear.

Let me see if I can dig up any more info today, and I'll get back to everyone.
[Thunderbolt General] Russ36363:
I've placed the order, and I see nowhere in my account that I have a data plan associated with that line yet. I know I will be forced to get it when I activate it, however.
[Thunderbolt General] PJnc284:
The new data plan won't show up until after you activate the Thunderbolt.
[Thunderbolt General] Philosophre:
Looks like http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/03/22/verizon-ending-unlimited-4g-data-on-thursday/ picked up this thread. Also a question was asked on http://community.vzw.com/t5/ThunderBolt-by-HTC/4G-cap-rumor/m-p/481286 .

Let the panic begin. Still waiting from some sort of official press release or anything confirming this rumor.
[Thunderbolt General] magneticzero:
Still waiting for evidence of this nerf...
[Thunderbolt General] 1454:
thanks to the iTurd.
[Thunderbolt General] mptrh336:
Better consider returning it a lil quicker, you only have 14 days.
[Thunderbolt General] TeH PLAYA:
Interesting info on this thread: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=997306

Quoted from that thread:

So I asked him this:

What do you think?
[Thunderbolt General] wctaylor79:
I was told and of course can not confirm this outside of what Verizon told me, that you are locked into your data plan for life pending what type of device you use. If you had an Inc or a D1 you had a 3G plan, and as long as you use 3G phones that plan rides with you. If you just got the TB you are now on a 4G plan and that will ride with you as long as you stay with 4G phones in the future.
[Thunderbolt General] bradw516:
Very glad that I will be grandfathered in, but I'm kinda disgusted the direction that data plans over all specturms is headed. Verizon capping data usage on phones, AT&T capping bandwidth for their internet... it's all about the bottom line and it's unfortunate for consumers in general.
[Thunderbolt General] Mad Llama:
Hope unlimited grandfathers! Thanks for this info.
[Thunderbolt General] imneveral0ne:
i just hope they give more time!
[Thunderbolt General] Robertjm:
I will throw in that I had 3g phones for several years when the unlimited rate was $44.95/mth. However, when I purchaed my Omnia the unlimted rate was $29.95/mth. So it isn't accurate that your ACCOUNT is locked in for life at a certain rate.

Now maybe my being out of contract had something to do with that, or that I brought my own phone to VZW when I changed from the non-PDA phone. Don't know.
[Thunderbolt General] dadsterflip:
I'm locked in with 4g unlimited but mY contract ends this year. So what then? Can they switch my plans or take me off it?
[Thunderbolt General] Robertjm:
I am confused. How could you have a plan ending this year when the only 4g handset was released less than two weeks ago and required a new commitment?
[Thunderbolt General] Sub-Standard:
Not sure where you got "required a new commitment" from........???
[Thunderbolt General] dtoye:
If im a customer now with verizon and i upgrade on friday will i be grandfathered or am i sol?
[Thunderbolt General] dadsterflip:
I used my buddy's upgrade to get the tbolt. Then switched it to my account. All done instore.
[Thunderbolt General] shelooga:
Bingo! I wanted to wait bc my x was flawless, but this is why. My buddy ordered a tb on amazonwirelesd, I hope he sneaks in
[Thunderbolt General] Robertjm:
My assumption was that the other poster purchaed a Tbolt at the subsidized price, not full price. If so that would require a new contract commitment. Right?
[Thunderbolt General] ericdabbs:
I am sure they will give customers more of heads up notice than just 1 week before they start ending their unlimited data service for phones. Besides according to the blogger site, it looks like this $49.99/5GB plan is probably an option for tablets or 4G anytime access through the modem and not for the phone unlimited data that most people are talking about.