grad b:  grad d: How many batteries do you go through ? grad b: Thank you . My suggestion is that Robert and Johno sort of give us a report on last week 's adventures  to start . So everybody knows there were these guys f  from Heidelber -  , actually from  DFKI  , part of the German SmartKom project , who were here for the week and , I think got a lot done . The we got to the point where we can now speak into the SmartKom system , and it 'll go all the way through and then say something like " Roman numeral one , am Smarticus . " It actually says , " Roemisch einz , am Smarticus , " grad b: OK . " grad d: " I am Sm - I am Smarticus " is what it 's saying . grad d: I gue grad e: The  sythesis is just a question of  , hopefully it 's just a question of exchanging a couple of files , once we have them . And , it 's not going to be a problem because we decided to stick to the so - called concept to speech approach . So I 'm I 'm I 'm going backwards now , so " synthesis " is where you sort of make this  , make these sounds , and " concept to speech " is feeding into this synthesis module giving it what needs to be said , and the whole syntactic structure so it can pronounce things better , presumably . Bu -  , i The way the  , the dialogue manager works is it dumps out what it wants to know , or what it wants to tell the person , to a er in XML and there 's a conversion system for different  , to go from XML to something else . And th so , the knowledge base for the system , that generates the syntasti syntactic structures for the ge generation is  , in a LISP - like the knowledge base is in a LISP - like form . So , you have a basically , a goal and it , you know , says " OK , well I 'm gonna try to do the Greet - the - person goal , grad b:   grad d: so it just starts  , it binds some variables and it just decides to , you know , do some subscold . grad e: But I think that the point is that out of the twelve possible utterances that the German system can do , we 've already written the the syntax trees for three or four . grad d: and instead of , you know , breaking down to , like , small units and building back up , they basically took the sentences , and basically cut them in half , or you know , into thirds or something like that , and made trees out of those . And so  ,  Tilman wrote a little tool that you could take LISP notation and generate an XML , tree . And so basically you just say , you know , " noun goes to " , you know , Er , nah , I don't re I 've never been good at those . So there 's like the VP goes to N and those things in LISP , and it will generate for you . grad e: And because we 're sticking to that structure , the synthesis module doesn't need to be changed . So all that f fancy stuff , and the Texas speech version of it , which is actually the simpler version , is gonna be done in October which is much too late for us . Right now it 's brittle and you need to ch start it up and then make ts twenty changes on on on on seventeen modules before they actually can stomach it , anything . And send in a a a couple of side queries on some dummy center set - up program so that it actually works because it 's designed for this seevit thing , where you have the gestural recognition running with this s Siemens virtual touch screen , which we don't have here . grad e: And so we 're doing it via mouse , but the whole system was designed to work with this thing and it was It was a lot of engineering stuff . No science in there whatsoever , but it 's working now , and  , that 's the good news . grad d: Why I had I did need to chan generate different trees than the German ones , mainly because you know like  , the gerund in in German is automatically taken care of with just a regular verb , grad e: You have to switch it on . grad d: so I 'd  have to add " am walking , " grad b: OK . grad d: or I 'd have to add a little stem for the " am " , when I build the built the tree . Yeah , I noticed that  , that some of the examples they had , had you know , non - English word orders and so on , you know . professor c: So it might be worth , Keith , you looking at this , grad b: Yeah . professor c:  grad b: I I still don't I still don't really understand e like grad d: Well Tilman s grad b:  we sort of say ,  You know , I I still don't exactly understand sort of the information flow  in in this thing , or what the modules are and so on . So , you know , like just that such - and - such module   decides that it wants to achieve the goal of greeting the user , and then magically it sort of s professor c: Yeah grad b: how does it know which syntactic structure to pull out , and all that ? professor c: I thi Yeah . professor c: but sort of when you get free and you have the time  either Robert or Johno or I can walk you through it .  , was this , I I think he talked about the idea of like ,  He was talking about these lexicalized  , tree adjoining grammars where you sort of for each word you ,  grad d: OK , you know how to do it ? grad b: For each lexical item , the lexical entry says what all the  trees are that it can appear in . If it turns out we can also give them lots more than that by , you know , tapping into other things we do , that 's great . professor c: But i it turns out not to be in an any of the contracts grad d: There 's like a little The twisty thing , you can move it with . So , the reason I 'd like you to understand  what 's going on in this demo system is not because it 's important to the research . So that if we come up with a question of " could we fit this deeper stuff in there ? " or something . professor c: So it 's just ,  in the sam same actually with the rest of us we just need to really understand what 's there . Is there anything we can make use of ?  , is there anything we can give back , beyond th the sort of minimum requirements ? But none of that has a short time fuse . professor c: So th the demo the demo requirements for this Fall are sort of taken care of as of later this week or something . And then So , it 's probably fifteen months or something until there 's another serious demo requirement . professor c: That doesn't mean we don't think about it for fifteen months , grad b: Right . The plan for this summer  , really is to step back from the applied project , grad e: Right . professor c: And , so The idea is there 's this  , other subgroup that 's worrying about formalizing the nota getting a notation . But sort of in parallel with that , the hope is tha in particularly you will work on constructions in English Ge - and German for this domain , grad b:   professor c: but y not worry about parsing them or fitting them into SmartKom or any of the other anything lik any other constraints for the time being . professor c: It 's hard enough to get it semantically and syntactically right and then and get the constructions in their form and stuff . professor c: And , I don I don't want you f feeling that you have to somehow meet all these other constraints . And similarly with the parsing ,  we 're gonna worry about parsing  , the general case you know , construction parser for general constructions . And , if we need a cut - down version for something , or whatever , we 'll worry about that later . grad b: So  , the the point is that like the meetings  so far that I 've been at have been sort of been geared towards this demo , professor c: Right . grad b: And then we 'll sort of shift gears a Fairly substantially , professor c: Yeah . What I what I think is is a good idea that I can can show to anyone who 's interested , we can even make a sort of an internal demo , and I I show you what I do , grad b:   grad e: And so you when somebody on the streets com comes up to you and asks you what is SmartKom so you can , sort of , give a sensible answer . professor c: So , c sh we could set that up as actually an institute wide thing ? Just give a talk in the big room , and and so peo people know what 's going on ? when you 're ready ? grad e: Absolutely . professor c: Yeah  , that 's the kind of thing That 's the level at which you know we can just li invite everybody and say " this is a project that we 've been working on and here 's a demo version of it " and stuff like that . Well d we we do wanna have all the bugs out b where you have to sort of pipe in extra XML messages from left and right before you 're grad b:  - huh . Actually , roughly starting  let 's say , nex next meeting , cuz this meeting we have one other thing to tie up besides the trip report .  there are a lot of issues , what 's the ontology look like , grad b:   professor c: you know what do the constructions look like , what 's the execution engine look like , mmm lots of things . Now before we do that , let 's get back in Oh ! But , it 's still , I think , useful for you to understand the demo version enough , so that you can can see what what it is that that  it might eventually get retro - fitted into or something . professor c: And Johno 's already done that , looked at the dem  the looked at the SmartKom stuff . grad d: Wa  To some de  what what part of th the SmartKom stuff ? professor c: Well , the parser , and that stuff . So , the trip the report on these the last we we sort of interrupted you guys telling us about what happened last week . Well it was just amazing to to see  how how instable the whole thing is , professor c: Maybe you 're done , then . grad e: and if you just take the And I g I got the feeling that we are the only ones right now who have a running system . I don't know what the guys in Kaiserslautern have running because e the version that is , the full version that 's on the server d does not work . And so it 's And even Tilman and Ralf sort of said " yeah there never was a really working version that  did it without th all the shortcuts that they built in for the  October @ @ version " . So we 're actually maybe ahead of the System Gruppe by now , the system the integration group . And it was ,  It was fun to some extent , but the  the outcome that is sort of of scientific interest is that I think both Ralf and Tilman  , I know that they enjoyed it here , and they r they they liked , a lot of the stuff they saw here , what what we have been thinking about , and they 're more than willing to to  , cooperate , by all means . And  , part of my responsibility is  to use our internal " group - ware " server at EML , make that open to all of us and them , so that whatever we discuss in terms of parsing and and generating and constructions w we we sort of  put it in there and they put what they do in there and maybe we can even  , get some overlap , get some synergy out of that . And  , the ,  If I find someone at in EML that is interested in that ,  I I may even think that we could look take constructions and and generate from them because the tree adjoining grammars that that Tilman is using is as you said nothing but a mathematical formalism . And you can just do anything with it , whether it 's syntactic trees , H P S G - like stuff , or whether it 's construction . So if you ever get to the generation side of constructing things and there might be something of interest there , but in the moment we 're of course definitely focused on the understanding , pipeline . professor c: Anyth - any other  repo visit reports sort of stories ?  we so we now know I think , what the landscape is like . And one of the things we need to do is the  , and this I think is relatively tight tightly constrained , is to finish up this belief - net stuff . And I was going to switch to start talking about that unless there 're m other more general questions . OK so here 's where we are on the belief - net stuff as far as I understand it . Going back I guess two weeks ago  Robert had laid out this belief - net , missing only the connections . Right ? That is So , he 'd put all th all the dots down , and we went through this , and , I think , more or less convinced ourselves that at least the vast majority of the nodes that we needed for the demo level we were thinking of , were in there . So ,  Bhaskara and I went off and looked at some technical questions about were certain operations sort of legitimate belief - net computations and was there some known problem with them or had someone already  , solved you know how to do this and stuff . The answer seems to be  , " no , no one has done it , but yes it 's a perfectly reasonable thing to do if that 's what you set out to do " . And , so the current state of things is that , again , starting now ,  we 'd like to actually get a running belief - net for this particular subdomain done in the next few weeks . So Bhaskara is switching projects as of the first of June , and  , he 's gonna leave us an inheritance , which is a  hopefully a belief - net that does these things . And there 're two aspects to it , one of which is , you know , technical , getting the coding right , and making it run , and  stuff like that . OK ? What all you know , what are the considerations and how and what are the ways in which they relate . So he doe h he doesn't need help from this group on the technical aspects or if he does  we 'll do that separately . professor c: But in terms of what are the decisions and stuff like that , that 's something that we all have to work out . Is is that right ?  that 's that 's both you guys ' understanding of where we are ? grad e: Absolutely . grad g: So , I guess ,  Is there like a latest version of the belief - net of the proposed belief - net ? Like grad e: We had  decided grad g: like grad e:  . We wanted to look into maybe getting it , the visualization , a bit clearer , but I think if we do it , sort of a paper version of all the nodes and then the connections between them , that should suffice . grad d: Yeah , I professor c: We do in the long run wanna do better visualization and all that stuff . grad d: I did look into that ,  in terms of , you know , exploding the nodes out and down ag professor c: Yep . It 'd probably take two weeks or so to actually go through and do it , professor c: Not not at this point . grad d: and I went through all the other packages on Murph - Kevin Murphy 's page , professor c: Right . grad d: and I couldn't find the necessary mix of free and  with the GUI and , with this thing that we want . OK , so then I 'll go back and look at the ones on the list that professor c: OK . grad e: But grad g: Yeah , the one that  people seem to use is  Hugin or whatever ? professor c: Hugin , yeah that 's free . grad g: How exp I don't think it 's Is it free ? Because I 've seen it advertised in places so I it seems to professor c: it may be free to academics . professor c:  but yo I noticed people do use Hugin so  , grad d: How do you spell that ? professor c: HUGIN . So then , in any case ,  But paying a lit You know , if i if it 's  Probably for university , it 's it 's gonna be real cheap anyway . grad e: I I also s would suggest not to d spend two weeks in in in changing the the JavaBayes code . grad e: I I will send you a pointer to a Java applet that does that , it 's sort of a fish - eye . You you have a node , and you click on it , and it shows you all the connections , grad d: Mmm . grad e: and then if you click on something else that moves away , that goes into the middle . If that doesn't work , it 's not a problem we we need to solve right now . What I 'm what my job is , I will , give you the input in terms of of the internal structure . Maybe node by node , or something like this ? Or should I collect it all grad g:   grad g: just any like like sort of rough representation of the entire belief - net is probably best . And  you 're gonna be around ? t again , always Tuesdays and Thursdays afternoon - ish ? As usual ? Or will that change ? grad g: Yeah  , yeah , I can like I c  . This week I guess  , kind of I have a lot of projects and stuff but after that I will generally be more free . professor c: Yeah and this is not a crisis that  , you do , e everybody who 's a student should , you know do their work , get their c courses all in good shape and and and and then we 'll dig d dig down on this . grad b: How do you go about this process of deciding what these connections are ? I know that there 's an issue of how to weight the different things too , and stuff . grad e: It 's professor c: One is you design and the other is you learn . OK ? So  what we 're gonna do initially is is do design , and , i if you will , guess .  that is you know use your best knowledge of of the domain to  , hypothesize what the dependencies are and stuff . professor c: If it 's done right , and if you have data then , there are techniques for learning the numbers given the structure grad b: Yeah . professor c: and there are even techniques for learning the structure , although that takes a lot more data , and it 's not as @ @ and so forth and so on . So  but for the limited amount of stuff we have for this particular exercise I think we 'll just design it . Fo - Hopefully as time passes we 'll get more and more data from Heidelberg and from people actually using it and stuff . grad e: But to solve our problems ag  a mediocre design will do I think in the beginning . Yeah , oh , and by the way , speaking of data , are there I could swore  , I could swear I saw it sitting on someone 's desk at some point , but is there a  a transcript of any of the , sort of , initial interactions of people with the with the system ? Cuz you know , I 'm still sort of itching to to look at what look at the stuff , and see what people are saying . So and and , of course Keith would like the German as well as the English , so whatever you guys can get . Yeah ,  I I sort of  found the  ,  the audio of some of those , and  , it kind of sounded like I didn't want to trudge through that , you know . professor c: OK , so while we 're still at this sort of top level , anything else that we oughta talk about today ? grad e: Ho - how was your thingy . grad b: Oh , I just wanted to , s like mention as an issue , you know last meeting I wasn't here because I went to a linguistics colloquium on the fictive motion stuff , professor c: Oh right . grad b: and that was pretty interesting and you know , seems to me that that will fairly obviously be of relevance to  to what we 're doing here because you know people are likely to give descriptions like you know , " What 's that thing  right where you start to go up the hill , " or something like that , you know , meaning a few feet up the hill or whatever from some reference point and all that stuff so  , I 'm sure in terms of you know , people trying to state locations or , you know , all that kind of stuff , this is gonna be very relevant . So , now that was the talk was about English versus Japanese , which obviously the Japanese doesn't affect us directly , except that , some of the construction he 'd what he talked about was that you know in English we say things like th you know , " your bike is parked across the street " and we use these prepositional phrases , you know , " well , if you were to move across the street you would be at the bike " , but  in in Japanese the the more conventionalized tendency is to use a sort of a description of " where one has crossed to the river , there is a tree " .  , and you know , you can actually say things like , " there 's a tree where one has crossed the river , but no one has ever crossed the river " , or something like that . So the idea is that this really is you know that 's supposed show that 's it 's really fictive and so on . But  But the point is that that kind of construction is also used in English , you know , like " right where you start to go up the hill " , or " just when you get off the train " , or something like that to  , to indicate where something is . grad b: So we 'll have to think about professor c: So how much is that used in German ? grad e:  . grad e: the the Deep Map project which  is undergoing some renovation at at the moment , but this is a a three language project : German , English , Japanese . grad e: And  , we have a  ,  I have taken care that we have the the Japanese generation and stuff . Well , if yo if you 're interested in that , so how how ,  it does sort of go d all the way down to the conceptual level to some extent . professor c: So , where is this huge project ? grad e: It 's KLEIST . grad e:  professor c: Well , that may be another thing that Keith wants to look at . grad e: But  , I I think we should leave Japanese constructions maybe outside of the scope for for now , grad b: Yeah . phd a: Are are you going to p pay any attention to the relative position of of the direction relative relative to the speaker ? For example , there are some differences between Hebrew and English . We can say  " park in front of the car " as you come beh you drive behind the car . In Hebrew it means " park behind the car " , because to follow the car is defined as it faces you . phd a: So , i i i is German  closer to to E  ,  to E   grad e:   phd a: I don't think it it 's related to syntax , though , so it may be entirely different . Did you ever get to look at the the rou paper that I sent you on the on that problem in English and German ? grad b: I think grad e: Carroll , ninety - three . grad e: So it 's they actually say " the monkey in front of the car , where 's the monkey ? " grad b:   grad e: And , they found statistically very significant differences in English and German , so I I I It might be , since there are only a finite number of ways of doing it , that that German might be more like Hebrew in that respect . phd a: That but it wasn't was grad e: That syntactic facto factors do do play a role there , wh whether you 're more likely , you know , to develop  , choices that lead you towards using  intrinsic versus extrinsic reference frames . grad b: it seems to me that you can get both in in English depending o professor c:  . grad b: You know , like , " in front of the car " could you know Like , here 's the car sideways to me in between me and the car or something 's in front of the car , or whatever . grad b: but But anyway , so you know , this was this was a a very good talk on those kinds of issues and so on . grad e: I can also give you  , a pointer to a paper of mine which is the the ultimate taxonomy of reference frames . " reference frames " ? grad e: It 's called a phd a:   grad e: It 's it 's spatial reference frames . You can either do a two - point or a three - point which is you You 're familiar with th with the " origo " ? where that 's the center " Origo " is the center of the f frame of reference . professor c: So that would be " origin " in English , grad f: This was like grad b: The origin . grad e: And three - point relations is if something has an intrinsic front side like this chair then your f shoe is behind the chair . You you can actually say things like , " it 's behind the tree from me " or something like that , I think , in in in certain circumstances in English , right ? As sort of " from where I 'm standing it would appear that " grad e: Yeah . professor c: Yeah , it sounds like it , doesn't it , grad b: Yeah . Egocentric two - point , egocentric three - point , or you can have allocentric . grad e: So , " as seen from the church , the town hall is right of that  , fire station " . aa - huh It 's hardly ever used but it 's w phd a: I 'd love to see it if you if you have a copy kind of . Well , why don't you just put it on the web page ? There 's this EDU Right ? grad e: Yeah it 's or or just Yeah . professor c: By the way , there something that I didn't know until about a week ago or so , is apparently , there are separate brain areas for things within reach , and things that are out of reach . professor c: So there 's there 's  all this linguistic stuff about you know , near and far , or yon and and so forth . That , you know they do MRI , and and if you 're  got something within reach then there 's one of your areas lights up , and if something 's out of reach  a different one . So there 's a a line on the wall over there , and you give them a laser pointer , and you say , " Where 's the midpoint ? " And they do fine . There 's just that part of the brain isn't functioning , so they can't do that . The same thing on the wall , you give them a laser , " where is it ? " , grad b:   Give them a stick , long stick , and say " do it " , they can't do it . So they doubled the the end the end of this grad f: Because it 's within reach now ? grad b: Yeah , professor c: It 's not within reach and you use the Within - Reach  , mechanism . professor c: And so this doe This is ,  First of all , it explains something that I 've always wondered about and I 'll do this this test on you guys as well . How - I have had an experience , not often , but a certain number of times , when , for example , I 'm working with a tool , a screwdriver or something , for a long time , I start feeling the tip directly . professor c: And people who are  accomplished violinists and stuff like that , claim they also have this kind of thing where you get a direct sensation of , physical sensation , of the end affector . What 's going on at the end of the tool , phd a: The ext the the The extension , grad b: yeah . professor c: Huh ? grad b: What 's going on at the end of the tool , or whatever .  i i it 's not exactly the th same thing , but but s it it it 's getting close to that . grad f: W what does it feel like ? professor c: Oh i it feels like your as if your  neurons had extended themselves out to this tool , and you 're feeling forces on it and so forth and and you deal directly with it . phd a: I once I I was playing you know with those   devices that allow you to manipulate objects when it 's dangerous to get close ? So you can insert your hand something grad b: Oh , OK . phd a: Very kind of you stop back and suddenly it goes away and you have to kind of work again to recapture it , but yeah . professor c: Right , Yeah , so anyway , so So this was the first actual experimental evidence I 'd seen that was consistent with this anecdotal stuff . So in addition to e ego and allocentric  which appear all over the place , you also apparently have this proximal - distal thing which is very deeply  embedded . S grad e: Well , Dan Montello sort of , he he does the   th the cognitive map world , down in Santa Barbara . And he he always talks about these He he already well i probably most likely without knowing this this evidence  is talking about these small scale spaces that you can manipulate versus large scale environmental spaces . Well there 's there 's  been a lot of behavioral things o on this , but that was the first neur neuro - physiological thing I saw . We 're starting to do science , right ? And so these issues about  , reference , and spatial reference , discourse reference ,  -  -  -  all this sort of stuff , deixis which is part of what you were talking about , grad b:   And so , in addition to the business about just getting the linguistics right , and the formalism and stuff , we 're actually gonna build something and  , Johno is point person on the parser , analyzer , whatever that is , and we 're gonna start on that in parallel with the  , the grammar stuff . professor c: But to do that we 're gonna need to make some decisions like ontology , so ,  And so this is another thing where we 're gonna , you know , have to get involved and make s relatively early I think , make some decisions on  , " is there an ontology API that that " There 's a sort of standard way of getting things from ontologies and we build the parser and stuff around that , or is there a particular ontology that we 're gonna standardize on , and if so For example , is there something that we can use there . i Does  either the  SmartKom project or one of the projects at EML have something that we can just p pull out , for that . But we aren't gonna ignore those cuz we 're we 're not only going The plan is not only to lay out this thing , but to actually  build some of it . Part of it , if it works right , is wh It looks like we 're now in a position that the construction analyzer that we want for this applied project can be the same as the construction analyzer that Nancy needs for the child language modeling . It 's always been out of phase but it now seems that  , there 's a good shot at that . So we 've talked about it , and the hope is that we can make these things the same thing , grad b: OK . professor c: and of course it 's only w In both cases it 's only one piece of a bigger system . To to come full circle on that , this formalization task , OK ? is trying to get the formalism into into a shape where it can actually  grad b: Yeah . Be of use to someone who 's trying to do this , right ? professor c: d Well , yeah , where it actually is is covers the whole range of things . And the the the the thing that got Mark into the worst trouble is he had a very ambitious thing he was trying to do , and he insisted on trying to do it with a limited set of mechanisms . professor c: and he seemed fully committed to both sides of this i i irreconcilable thing . So there 's you know sort of , yeah , deep , really deep , emotional commitment to a certain theory being  , complete . grad f: You don't have a hidden purist streak ? grad d: Oh no . professor c: We - well it hasn't it it certainly hasn't been observed , in any case . Why a actually , the thing is , you you do but , th the thing you have to im implement is so small that  . professor c: Within that , yeah , grad f: Yes , professor c: and  , it 's a and still , I think , you know , get something done . grad b: Cool ! professor c: But to try to do something upscale and purist Particularly if if  what you 're purist about doesn't actually work , is real hard . And then the other thing is while we 're doing this  Robert 's gonna pick a piece of this space , phd a: It 's possible yeah . grad e: The - th There there 's a drive - in thesis  sh joint over in Saarbruecken . But , But anyway , so , that 's  , also gotta be worked out , hopefully over the next few weeks , so that that it becomes clear  , what piece  , Robert wants to jump into . And , while we 're at this level , there 's at least one new doctoral student in computer science who will be joining the project , either next week or the first of August , depending on the blandishments of Microsoft . Nobody believed th th that grad f: Yeah , I thought it had to be a joke , of your part , you know professor c: Yeah . " grad g: Is this person someone who 's in first - year this year , professor c: No , first year coming . grad g: or professor c: So , she 's she 's now out here she 's moved , and she 'll be a student as of then . professor c: And probably she 'll pick up from you on the belief - net stuff , so sh she 'll be chasing you down and stuff like that . grad f: We always get these people who are not in the class , who professor c: Some of th some of them , yeah . professor c: So anyway , but  she 's another one of these ones with a three point nine average and so forth and so on . Oh there 's yet another one of the incoming first incoming first - year graduate students who 's expressed interest , so we 'll see how that goes .  , anyway , so , I think as far as this group goes , it 's certainly worth continuing for the next few weeks to get closure on the  belief - net and the ideas that are involved in that , and what are th what are the concepts . We 'll see whether it 's gonna make sense to have this be separate from the other bigger effort with the formalization stuff or not , I 'm not sure . And then , Ami , you can decide , you know , how much time you wanna put into it and  , it it 's beginning to take shap shape , phd a: OK . professor c: so  and , phd a: Right professor c: I think you will find that if you want to look technically at some of the your traditional questions in this light ,  Keith , who 's buil building constructions , will be quite happy to  see what , you know , you envision as the issues and the problems and  , how they might  get reflected in constructions . phd a: I I may have to go to Switzerland for in June or beginning of July for between two weeks and four weeks , but  , after that or before that . And , if it 's useful we can probably arrange for you to drop by and visit either at Heidelberg or at the German AI center , while you 're in in the neighborhood . Yeah be  actu actually I 'm invited to do some consulting with a bank in Geneva which has an affiliation with a research institute in Geneva , which I forgot the name of . professor c: Well , we we 're connected to  There 's a there 's a a very significant connection between We 'll we 'll go through this , phd a: Yeah . professor c: ICSI and EPFL , which is the ,  It 's the Fr Ge - Germany 's got two big technical institutes . professor c: E T and then there 's one , the French speaking one , in Lausanne , grad b: Oh , so in Switzerland . Yeah , and so anyway we c  We can m undoubtedly get Ami  to give a talk at  EML or something like that . I I think the one you you gave here a couple of weeks ago would be of interest there , too . Actually , either place , DFKI or  Yeah , so , and and if there is a book , that you 'll be building up some audience for it . professor c: Cuz they 've actually these DFKI guys have done as much as anyone over the last decade in trying to build them . So , unless we wanna start digging into the  the belief - net and the decisions now , which would be fine , it 's probably grad e: I I tho It 's probably better if I come next week with the  version O point nine of the structure . So , how about if you two guys between now and next week come up with something that is partially proposal , and partially questions , saying " here 's what we think we understand , here are the things we think we don't understand " . professor c: OK ?  , " these are the decisions " I don't think we 're gonna get lots more information . grad e: And  , the the sem semester will be over next week but then you have projects for one more week to come ? grad g: No , I I think I 'll be done everything by this  by the end of this week . This Well , I 've I have projects , but then the my prof professor of one of my classes also wa has a final that he 's giving us . professor c: OK , so I guess that 's grad d: So , the seventeenth will definitely be the last day , like it or not for me . So let 's do this , and then we we well there 's gonna be some separate co these guys are talking ,  we have a group on the formalization ,  Nancy and Johno and I are gonna talk about parsers . professor c: Of course , nothing gets done even in a meeting of seven people , grad b: Right . professor c: right ? So , two or three people is the size in which actual work gets done . Oh , the other thing we wanna do is catch up with  , Ellen and see what she 's doing because the  image schemas are going to be  , an important pa grad b: Yeah . Yeah , I 'm actually probably going to be in contact with her  pretty soon anyway because of various of us students were going to have a reading group about precisely that sort of thing over the summer , grad d: OK . professor c: That 's great ! Yeah , I I Shweta mentioned that , although she said it 's a secret . grad d: Hi grad b: Right , no faculty ! professor c: Th - the faculty aren't faculty aren't supposed to know . professor c: But  , I 'm sufficiently clueless that I count as a grad b: Yeah , right . It 's as if we didn't tell anyone at all , grad d: Bhaskara