project manager: He he he industrial designer: So what can you ? project manager: You did work together didn't you ? industrial designer: Yeah we will yeah , so I will be able to to summarize  our meeting , project manager: Yes .  yes industrial designer: can we have a phone , project manager: but w we industrial designer: can someone project manager: Yes , maybe we should phone him . project manager: And  well first thing  I was   I got an email from  from my superior again that we really should stay within the budget of the  twelve Euro and fifty cents . project manager: when you stay in it's good , when you don't stay in you have to redesign . marketing: Well we can't no we can't do evaluation 'til we have a design . So I will start by the the basic one that  fits into  eight Euros actually , right , seven eight Euros , marketing: industrial designer: and  well first for both they have  a special shape , maybe the designer can  explain better than me , but  it's like a surf board . industrial designer: And you you are supposed to surf to browse to surf T_V_ , maybe the web , and  it's kind of interesting shape because  unconsciously people want to s to surf when they see this stuff . Don't take care too much about the colour because w yeah we don't take user interface: Now we are supposed to give some oper offers right now . industrial designer: yeah L_A_ L_A_ L_E_D_ , user interface: L_E_D_ . industrial designer: How can you change from V_C_R_ to  T_V_ , by the way ? user interface: Oh no no no , this is a single this this is a model with just the T_V_ one . user interface: No no just sorry , this is a standard T_V_ one , we are not talking about that . So and then we have usually there twelve keys but we know that we rel that we have only ten digits . And the other one is for the teletext or something you want to browse through from that . marketing: it's it's t a very basic remote then , it's only user interface: It's a very basic minimal thing marketing:  . user interface: which you can which is which is also available in the market , actually that's what it that it i industrial designer: user interface: and would cost us to build it about eight Euros . project manager: Exce except for the for the special shape , the surfing board , it has a quite a a conventional layout of buttons  . industrial designer: user interface: Th this is a magic one but I know we don't want to talk about that , marketing: user interface: you know like industrial designer: user interface:  i i i it is a very futuristic , it's like  it's like a brain machine interface and all this stuff we are thinking about in the future , it can come . user interface: So that  then what we look t marketing: Did you wanna see ? user interface: yeah . Yeah no you can carry on , user interface: This is a model , project manager: I just look how it feels all . industrial designer: project manager: So but but continue with your  user interface:  so well project manager: user interface: then the this is the a more a little  smooth industrial designer: user interface: and it gives a lot of functionality ,  in this way , so all we have  th you see there are only six keys , but don't worry they are ma they are doing the job of twelve keys actually here . user interface: and  it's easy to  use this and  you have  so this is a standard   infrared eye , and then you have a power button , which l volume , what you have , project manager: user interface: and then other than that you have  channel up and down and  f slow pause or s slow lo industrial designer: Play , pause . user interface: yeah s pause or stop , and  then  you can  you have a L_C_D_ display , here project manager: user interface: and  y this is a functional thing which can change like it's a toggle switch which could change the function say , y you press it project manager: From D_V_D_ player to television or something . project manager: Yes and and and then you get feedback via the L_C_D_ yeah . user interface: The L_C_D_ can display what is that on that , industrial designer: Yes . user interface: and  well you can have a integrated microphone over here , industrial designer: This is the orange button , the microphone . user interface: so which can  basically you want to do a speech recognition and  that channel a lot of information can be di displayed here directly on the  on your on your display . user interface: And here is a small L_E_D_ which is like blinking one , project manager: user interface: which tells you like  are you running out of the battery , and which is can be useful for the locating as I was talking earlier project manager: And  well then we have a cover basically , basically you don't need much of the time this , industrial designer: Yeah . user interface: when you need you can use it , and this gives additional functionality that tomorrow you want you can add a tactile thing to this cover project manager:  . project manager: but but but but  i in there  when this is closed , will it also  cover up the L_C_D_ screen ? user interface: Yeah . project manager: But but the L_C_D_ screen  is a very  well an eye-attracting feature industrial designer: Yeah . user interface: project manager: which shouldn't be shouldn't be user interface: Actually when you are watching the T_V_ , when you are watching anything or listening to them , you hardly care about what is getting displayed here , industrial designer: Oh actually well . user interface: you know ,  you want to  and this gives a protection to the L_C_D_ actually , giving a cover to that actually . user interface: because when it falls down or something it it is it is is is it gives a protec project manager: industrial designer: So the the cost is actually a bit more , it's  it's it's sixteen Francs . project manager: But w industrial designer: But the the main point we we talk about that with our  manufacturer . And they say basically that the S_R_ system would be  something like three Francs per item user interface: Yeah . And  marketing: That's on top of the sixteen , or is it part of that ? industrial designer: No no no , part of that , yeah . user interface: Well  if you we can have if you have new more ideas we can add new more  some more keys if you want to you know project manager: industrial designer: it's too user interface: it it should not be cluttering up everything . marketing: What's this one on the side ? user interface: Ah that's for the it's kind of a L_E_D_ for indicating your battery industrial designer: Locati . project manager: Be before ta talking about the money and what's possible and what is not possible , maybe Anna you can  give our  give us your  marketing: marketing: We just wanna make sure that we've taken into account project manager: Well marketing: Yep . marketing: So it's just a shortlist of criteria on  the things that we've identified as being important to selling the product . marketing:  we just go through these and rate them as a group and then at the end we'll make an evaluation based on that , so just average the score of those items , so These are the things we identified as being important .  the three things were look and feel , innovation and ease of use , were the three important components project manager: marketing:  appealing to the correct demographic so using those things in the right way to appeal to our demographic . And then goin following the company motto , following the fashion trends and putting that into the product as well . So well do you wanna go through and put through those on the the two products now or do we wanna discuss them further and then evaluate them ? project manager: n no why not why not discuss  discuss it now , marketing: Okay . So the first one was really very far below budget , would you want to take the price down of the end product according to that or just have the high profit on it ? 'Cause if we're only going to make it for eight Euros then we have a project manager: well my my personal view is  w when when this one is eight Euros we must think how can we improve it . project manager: And then  w w w you must just see it we can still spend this four and a half Euro marketing: project manager: and to r because th th th the the selling price is already prite fik   quite fixed on twenty five Euros industrial designer: project manager: so we just have to offer as much as as well value for the for the customer  he can have for twenty five Euro . Oh , you following the idea of using the  removable covers on these ? Is that part of both of them or ? project manager:  well w w we can still discuss that . project manager: So  , and together with evaluating this  we we might come with new ideas marketing: project manager:  adding things or  removing  of options because they are too expensive , marketing: project manager: No okay , this is these are the the the latest prices of our production   production unit for several components , industrial designer: project manager: so we can  see whether the the price is is within the twelve Euro  fifty cents  . user interface: project manager: In i in my opinion purely feel is is is very good , is very good in your hand , marketing: marketing: On the scale u it's between functional and fancy basically we're looking at , project manager: So maybe two . Ma ma ma ma maybe say say five marketing: so project manager: I It's my opinion , but I don't know what what user interface: Well I will give it maybe we have anyways the way we have designed it's like the surf as you say marketing: industrial designer: If you press like this not like this then you marketing: No that's the industrial designer: user interface: No . user interface: C can you get the batteries ? No no the battery has fallen down , marketing: Battery's low , isn't it the ink ? user interface: that's i marketing: The b that's the that that one ? user interface: Yeah . industrial designer: But user interface: No no it's not that , it's how to close a battery . marketing: No it's It would still write project manager: Oh it will not marketing: but it wouldn't pick it up with the sensors . marketing: You got a second ? industrial designer: Try a marketing: Well we won't be able to tell . marketing: Because we'll be able to see it still even if it wasn't working , it's just a normal whiteboard marker industrial designer: Yeah , yeah . marketing: it's hard to tell from just the plasticine , project manager: I I I marketing: but project manager: When we want to include I I I'm doubting about this this component . industrial designer: maybe user interface: No actually this is this is not going to protrude actually , marketing: Okay . user interface: it it's n i it is jus industrial designer: It's not a button it's a led , it's a user interface: It's a led actually which which 'll be covering in a curve industrial designer: Ac actually yeah it should be embedded . marketing: 'Cause if people are left handed they want to use the other hand , user interface: Yeah . user interface: No you it it not protruding actually , it will go in better into that marketing: Okay . project manager: Well r r marketing: I'd say two or three for that one , personally . project manager: I think the look is better industrial designer: project manager: but the feel is is is worse . project manager: But w w do you what do you think ? user interface:  it's fine I think . My just that  the feel is that  you right now you you don't see the feel because right  for example if you press it quite inside now like this , now it's embedded one . user interface: This is how embedded one will project manager: Yes , it basically is the same shape . user interface: You will be Except that in this c industrial designer: And the L_C_D_ makes it better . marketing: So , consensus ? Two or three ? project manager: Two ? marketing: Two ? project manager:  . The first one , not really muc industrial designer: Basically there is no innovation in the first one compared to what exists in the market , marketing:  . industrial designer: right ? marketing: Do we user interface: No but except for the design of the surf . marketing: What What features are we actually including ? user interface: You should be rea marketing: Are we including like a location kind of thing like trying to find it ? user interface:  no marketing: There's nothing like that ? user interface: I think it's more of the feel . marketing: But th is there any there's no actual innovation in that at all , it's just a straight-out remote control . project manager: S so that marketing: So there's no this  look and feel thing , though that's not a technological innovation . marketing: So what is it , what are the innovations with this ? Got the L_C_D_ screen . marketing: Is that in this one though ? Is this 'cause this is the Th th there were different options we discussed then , user interface: No , we ha marketing: we discussed the one that was in budget and the one that was out of budget . marketing: So the cost for these were industrial designer: So marketing: what was the cost for the first one ? Eight Euros ? project manager: Eight . Innovation for this one is two ? One ? user interface: It's a two , I would say two . industrial designer: W W un to be one what would do we nee actually , yeah , I don't see project manager: Why it is one . project manager: This this is it w with the speech recognition ? industrial designer: It's using speech recognition , yeah . project manager: Gi given that that it works , marketing: Give it a one ? industrial designer: Yeah , one , yeah . project manager: marketing: Ease of use ? user interface:  industrial designer: So the first one is really standard , marketing:  . industrial designer: so everybody i including our grandmothers can use it , user interface: He is used to it act marketing: Yeah . user interface: though it has more functionality I think it shouldn't be for the user to learn it actually . user interface:  yeah , actually in fact I think it will be industrial designer: One me  we hope user interface: Yeah industrial designer: maybe sometimes people get  scared with the number of buttons . industrial designer: because it's n  it's not like a big one with  one hundred buttons or so , user interface: Yeah it's a project manager: No . user interface: actually the user has to put some effort to do use that actually , marketing: marketing: So three's project manager: What's the next ? marketing:  how well it goes to the target demographic . So we're d we're still thinking twenty to forty year olds ? project manager: So user interface:  . project manager: Twe twenty to forty , yes that's marketing: That's industrial designer: This one would be  for grandmothers .  that's that's something which which has an appeal on this group I think , industrial designer: Yeah that's true . If it was the very bottom price range or it was like between this and another one we did the same thing then I can imagine it being applying to the the demographic project manager: but industrial designer: Yeah . That's it's still Ye project manager:  w w w we after this we can can consider  for instance , making this more attractive to to the demographic marketing:  . 'Cause we have got room , we've got some budget there to add a few things to it , project manager:  . marketing: And project manager: Do you agree ? user interface: I industrial designer: Yeah because it's so important it's i it was written that it really so important , the  the the look and  taking care of its it targets , the right range of people , user interface: Well I think marketing:  . marketing: But it's going to be cheap whatever though , industrial designer: But w user interface: So marketing: it was set with i we've got a set price . user interface: instead of a industrial designer: But for us it's yeah we have a constraint that we need to sell at twenty five Euros . There's nothing that would make me spend an extra k few Euros on that one rather than another one . marketing: and the demokraphi demographic of the second one ? user interface: And the demographics of marketing: It's got the got the the toys in it , it's got the L_C_D_ screen project manager: Yeah tha tha tha tha tha that's marketing: and project manager: I think it's better , marketing:  . project manager: because of the L_C_D_ screen which is really an appeal on the on the on the marketing: Yeah . And if you want to target yeah if we we wish to to sell four millions of this , I think for this audience we need absolutely the L_C_D_ screen . marketing: I think especially if we're gonna n have an L_C_D_ screen on a low range product then that's good . project manager: Because it  , ma maybe that's something to consider , yes , industrial designer: Yeah . user interface: Because then you you have it  d you have lot of things which you can include marketing: Yeah . And especially I guess 'cause this has the speech recognition as well , user interface: for the people to marketing: and that makes it more appealing , it's more of a a new fun toy . project manager: I think industrial designer: Spongy , that means that it goes in in the water . marketing: Well , project manager: marketing: the spongy could be part of the the feel of the buttons as well , user interface: marketing: I know some have you tried the mobile phones that have got the kinda spongy buttons and not not exactly spongy but I'm thinking one of the Nokias that's got like you ca it hasn't got individual buttons industrial designer:  okay . project manager: And the then we can al marketing: Or is it just one industrial designer: Yeah . We can we can consider   is it possible do you think , to to make a cover for s such a phone ?  marketing: Well they make it for mobiles , it can't be that much more complicated . user interface: But why do you want to cover that actually ? In that  w in the mod project manager: Well just with the with the flexible plastic  marketing: So you got the option of having different colours or different textures . project manager: I th I th I think user interface:   y are you sure ? Yeah I think yeah it should be possible like what we do with the mobile phone , yeah . project manager: so Maybe we can but we have to decide it , we can put the the the fancy f look of vegetables for instance , to to these covers marketing: marketing: I think the if we do the cover that's really going with the company's philosophy of having the fashion in in electronics , it lets people have the latest fashion project manager:  . marketing: even next year when fruit and vegetables might be out , you'll still be able to put a new cover on it and then it'll still be in fashion . 'Cause sometimes look at this computer , th this laptop , it's all black , marketing:  . industrial designer: and  it's quite conventional , and sometimes people don't like too much flashy colours like this one presented here . industrial designer: So maybe we could do like in the range the set of what we propose a black one , very standard one , that meets the the requirements of th such people that want really standard  things . project manager:  marketing: Although it is more with the spongy buttons on the  on the other one . project manager: this one has spongy but buttons ? industrial designer: Yeah , the blue one  spongy . marketing: Okay so the average of that is three six nine divided by five , so five  nine by five , one point s eight ? project manager: Just add it . marketing: This one , eleven thirteen nineteen twenty one , divided by five is four point two user interface: Four point  four point two . But we still got a very different price for those two so they're not really comparable yet anyway . project manager: Because , when we choose for this one we have to we have to make it more attractive marketing: marketing: Well it's easier to just make that one cheaper by just taking the speech recognition out . project manager: But I'm now did y did you work with the same prices that I have here ? industrial designer: So I I give yeah I just give a call with the manufacturer  and  I explained them and they told me this could be possible for sixteen Fr Euros . So let's let's try to to model this this phone in this sheet , user interface: It's a it's a normal battery , or user interface: Yeah , it migh It it'll need  more than a conventional one , it won't be  just maybe you might use a A_A_ battery actually . What do you say , Mael ? industrial designer: For this one it's a normal battery . industrial designer: So which one are we talking to ? user interface: Are you talking about this or that ? industrial designer: Well marketing: Either of them . project manager: Oh yes , we are talking about , but they have the same shape , user interface: industrial designer: Is it zero Franc ? user interface: A special colour ? project manager:  special colour , now we leave it to the covers . user interface:  marketing: So now we're either going button or L_C_D_s , L_C_D_ display . marketing: Is that price per unit , or for the whole thing ? project manager: Yeah th now this is per per unit , this number of components . user interface: Yeah , we might need a scroll wheel , right , for that ? industrial designer: No but for this one it's twelve Euro . industrial designer: There are twelve ? project manager: So , one , two , three , four , five , six , seven , eight , nine , user interface: Yeah that's a scroll . project manager: So marketing: So we'd have a special colour , special form and special material on all of them . user interface:  project manager: So I think but th do you agree th that thi industrial designer: Wait a minute , it's not it's not double curved , it's single curved , right ? Because it's there is no like . marketing: But I thought it would be curved on two project manager: Yes I marketing: it's like it's curved on the sides and curved on the top and bottom as well , that's what I thought . project manager: Yes I'm I'm no I'm no I'm not sh sure . industrial designer: Well project manager: Yes I kno undes I understand what you mean , yes . industrial designer: it's you know this curve like this so , it's w there is only is is is there is nothing like y you know in the other stuff there are marketing: You talking about concave curves ? project manager: -huh . industrial designer: So I think we can put  marketing: You think a single curved ? industrial designer: the single curved in the sixteen .  marketing: We have more , we've got those the scroll wheel on the side industrial designer: So marketing: and yeah industrial designer: I had a bad  bad estimation . user interface: Bad estimate , marketing: The sc project manager: W d user interface: right ? project manager: we have we haven't talk about a , but that's no a is very exp inexpensive I believe marketing:  . marketing: We've got a scroll wheel for the volume don't we , or is it some other thing that's not on there . project manager: W ho h is this a scroll wheel or is this a a a sort of button which can be pressed on two sides  so for higher and lower ? industrial designer: No no no . marketing: 'Kay we've only got five minutes left guys so we need to wrap it up pretty fast . industrial designer: Okay , user interface: industrial designer: so based on that , yeah ,  where is the es okay sample speaker user interface: That is the sample sensor and sample speaker . project manager: So  industrial designer: But still , yeah it user interface: We just need that actually . project manager: We're We We could go for the for the for the for the for a simple chip , but then we can't have the the speech recognition , yes ? Yes ? industrial designer: No we cannot , yeah . project manager: So so w when we w a industrial designer: So user interface: S project manager: this would this would be cutting the speech recognition . industrial designer: But the  Yeah but if you have the near the L_C_D_ you can  choose select between  you know like uni universal between audio , T_V_ and V_C_R_ , and this needs a needs a advanced chip . project manager: Transti industrial designer: Right , Matthew ? user interface: Oh I i it industrial designer: Or regular chip ? user interface: I think it's going to be y y industrial designer: I think yeah regular , today we you can do that with regular chip . And what about the number of buttons buttons  my Matthew ? project manager: Yes but that maybe Well we can just say user interface:  industrial designer: project manager: one . project manager: Ca l we are just when we just want to  to cut the number of buttons we have to make seven to to fit in in twelve twelve fifty . industrial designer: But project manager: So is it possible ? marketing: But that's seven basic buttons right , seven buttons without any adds-on , without special colours or form or material . user interface: That'll be then we have  have to ask the user to press it several times . industrial designer: You cannot make a phone to your boss saying twelve fifty is really really low , project manager: user interface: project manager: No no , marketing: Well project manager: he he he I I industrial designer: no ? user interface: marketing: So the L_C_D_ display is is three Francs , sorry three Euros , by itself . industrial designer: And  we don't want to to change that right ? We we really want a L_C_D_ user interface:  project manager: marketing: So twelve Euro fifty , we got two off of the battery , industrial designer: And I dunno marketing: we can't do anything about that , so ten fifty , if we want an L_C_D_ dispra display , that's seven fifty  , so we've got seven fifty to use for the case and for the buttons . marketing: So we're gonna have to scale this down to get within budget , there's no doubt about that . project manager: A industrial designer: So wha what what each of us think about the because it's measure point the L_C_D_ ,  Do you think it's important ? user interface: Or we could even replace them by buttons actually . industrial designer: Because sometimes whe when you watch the T_V_ in fact , you have a big display and maybe you don't need one more in your hands ? I dunno , I'm just asking . project manager:  user interface: A actually it depends , it depends what kind of functionalities you want to add into it , marketing: Yep . user interface: for example if you add two more functionalities then better you add two more buttons , or and you'll have L_C_D_ display which is that is going to bring the cost by two two Euros at least . I think , unless we can really drive these prices down we need to get rid of the L_C_D_ display . user interface: Okay so we can get rid of it industrial designer: Yeah , it's true yeah . What do you think  , L_C_D_ is a major feature , or ? project manager:  . I marketing: For the price , it's gonna be what we can afford , and it's looking like we can't afford the L_C_D_ display , there's no way we can get it in there . project manager: I think we have to come to a decision now , just I I think we we what we just do i is vote about the  the L_C_D_  display marketing: project manager: so industrial designer: You assume , you want a democratic voyt vote , project manager: Yes . project manager: S so who thinks the the L_C_D_ disply display should be i should be in it ? marketing: I th I'd like t it to be in but I can't see it happening . user interface: Yeah but the only thing is that what is the multiple functionalities you want to include with that . project manager: So   having an L_C_D_ s display is just   have very very limited amount of buttons . user interface: W I I I just project manager: So hav hav having seven buttons , instead of twelve . industrial designer: Because one yeah th show me that  actually we could in fact we move these three buttons and have three  possibilities for each of the three here . user interface: No , it's okay , you  cut the L_C_D_ screen project manager: Just user interface: and introduce two more buttons . So L_C_D_'s out , is speech rec out now ? We've industrial designer: The speech recognition is out . project manager: Okay w we now we can just  marketing: So are we basically back to the original one now , back to the first version ? Which turns out to be on budget exactly , pretty much . Well that's that's project manager: My m my supervisor will be glad that it's fifty cents cheaper than he expected . marketing: and see if we can drive the prices down to add a few more things in but that's all we can do with the restrictions we have at the moment