our agenda should be  that we're opening the meeting , I have the minutes from the previous meeting are on the shared f drive at this point . It's twenty five after two at the moment , so forty minutes is five after three ,  which I'll be keeping an eye on the clock for us .  there are the decisions we have to turn to , but we'll come back to them in a minute after I take us to the minutes of the previous meeting . Right  as we remember , I opened the meeting , the four of us were present , the meeting the first meeting's minutes were reviewed and approved .  Sarah , you presented a marketing research report  which pretty much rep represented that fifteen to thirty five year olds  it has to be hand-held , power , channel , volume , number keys , possibly a speech recognition . And then Steph did a second presentation  that those functions plus streamlining them with big user-friendly keys that were easy to use . Kate presented a working design of going after going over the basics on the whiteboard  that it should be a simple mass-produced device , because of the twelve and a half Pence cost .  but we did talk about possibly using rechargeable batteries and having a docking place as a selling point .  and the new requirements that it for be for T_V_ only  and that it include the l so slogan and colour of the  corporate design be included . So we agreed that the target market would be fifteen to thirty five with more money than sense , that were decision makers . Alternatively it would be a manufacturer to enclose it with the T_V_ , but it still should meet those parameters .  and that the function we agreed was volume , power , numbers , enter , channels , a way to move between channels , easy to use and hand-held .  at that point we agreed that Sarah would look at the current cost of competition , what what do the current ones sell for . Sarah , I'm sorry if I misspelled your name , I didn't know whether it was S_A_R_A_ or S_A_R_H_ . marketing: Okay , first thing I want to address is  one of the points that Florence brought up , which was  current cost of the competition devices , similar to the ones that Stephanie  showed us and and they're  twenty to sixty Euros , depending on  branding . But I think that with the current  price that we're searching for , we're well within , even on the lower end , of the  of the market . So , I investigated the remote control market in greater detail , and my  the theme of what I was to work on was  trend watch . user interface: marketing: project manager: user interface: industrial designer: I'm glad to see the marketing budget is being so well spent on . marketing: project manager: marketing: I know that you all are a distance from cutting edge marketing research , industrial designer: marketing: so you know , I'm just gonna try to cloak it in really professional terms here . industrial designer: user interface: marketing: And this is all over the catwalks , Paris , Milan , and I'm talking about clothing , furniture , shoes . And I think if we're to refashion our view of what we want in a remote control , we should perhaps think about incorporating technologically interesting fabrics and some of the bold colours into a simple handset . And f the fancy , and that's exactly the term , I'm I'm thinking polished , elegant , you know , kind of innovative , but a cut above . This is interesting , 'cause I think in the last meeting we were talking about technology as being so important , but maybe what's innovative is having it simple with  with  technologically superior fabrics or  , you know , designed in interesting substances . Again , pretty low ,  it's the top three , but each of the  fancy and technologically innovative are far more important . Don't you ? marketing: Y yeah , you know project manager: It sounds like the the  covers that they use for the remote , you know , your t your cell phone . I was thinking though that instead of having something  like patterned , you know , so , you know , something similar to a summer dress . you know , it would have like fruit and veg , is that we actually make these spongy . marketing: They could be ini initially I thought we could start with kind of  fruit that would suit kind of  a long  hand-held , so banana , pineapple and pear .  it could actually the sleeve could take up a lot of the development and the remote control , we'd just need to get reductionist on it . user interface: marketing: They could be interchangeable , they're spongy , that goes back to ergonomic , and the youngsters love 'em , fun for the whole family , everyone can have their own . Everyone has a T_V_ remote , but then we add in the fact that they could each have their own individual fruit . marketing: Y yeah , but I think I think what this would allow is perhaps a person in the family who had the most opinion about it we all need a remote , project manager:  . marketing: but the person who is really perhaps active in personalising , I'm thinking the teenager , the someone fifteen to thirty five would go out and get this additional thing the same way as you mentioned that people would get the cell phone covers . user interface: So when your dad's sitting there , overriding your decision , going no we're gonna watch this , you can bring out your own remote and be like zap , no we're gonna watch this . So this is an idea and I I you know , this is exactly what the research has  has shown . industrial designer: Yeah , I I think we're gonna have some trouble when we get down to the component design on this . And as for as for  well budgeting as well , if we're gonna have lots of different interchangeable components . user interface: Is this to the market ? industrial designer: Yeah ,  basically we can make these things out of wood , titanium , plastic or rubber . user interface: I was thinking titanium , I was thinking it's just I have been influenced by pictures of iPods , and they're also minimalist and shiny . project manager: Are we talking about the device itself or the c or a cover for the device that would be an interchangeable cov cover as a separate product ? marketing: Well it would be  a a very simple product that would have a spongy sleeve that would be interchangeable . So project manager: Perhaps perhaps that desi that particular suggestion needs to go back to management user interface: Yeah , but it's kind of pointless , isn't it ? project manager: and perhaps go to another group to actually design as a separate product . W w would it be helpful if  I described the components a bit , because I think it would give you  maybe bring this discussion back to Earth of what we can actually physically do . Or project manager: Do you wanna be next or you want Kate to go next ? user interface: I think possibly it might be more useful if Kate went next . project manager: Okay , we'll move the user interface:  industrial designer: user interface: You can even have them in different flavours as well . So that if you just wanna sit there and chew on the remote , it could be like pear flavour , marketing: Yeah . marketing:  well I was really thinking a lot about the I_  the iMac kind of gel gem tone . industrial designer: I I I think some of this  user interface: industrial designer: you're gonna be a little disappointed with some of the things I have to tell you , but I'm afraid this is the real world . So  I've been looking at the the basics of how these devices actually have to work in order to operate , and I've had some discussions with the ma manufacturing division , who have told me what's actually available , you know , what the current state of the art in components is , and some of the exciting new things they've got , but I'm not sure that it's quite what you want  . Now this isn't a very good overhead , but this is just to show you , this is the innards of a remote control  . And this is a push-button one , so you see these little little buttons here , they're little rubber rubber buttons that go through onto the the board at the back and they push these buttons here . We got to have something that pushes the little buttons that  talk to the chip that encodes the message that sends the the message to the receiver . So  I wan I wanna go through not not just addressing the   the the points that you made , Sarah , but  doing my presentation in the order I wrote it . marketing: industrial designer:  we can have your bog standard double double A_ batteries in a replaceable  little compartment . marketing: industrial designer: a wind-up , yeah , which I think is quite an interesting concept for a sorry for a remote control , marketing: project manager: industrial designer: but i it maybe is doesn't quite go with the  the fruit and veg . industrial designer:  one that one that I think is quite interesting is the kinetic energy source , marketing: project manager: Remember , we only have forty minutes industrial designer: where  you you actually get the energy by moving the device , marketing:  . You have to it means that if it's sitting there for a long time it probably won't work , but you have to sort of throw it between your hands every now and then , it'll work . industrial designer: Now I'm afraid this is the options we've got on on the case . user interface: industrial designer:  and the nearest we've got to st to spongy there I guess is rubber , but  I'm gonna come back to the advantages of titanium , marketing:  . industrial designer: and basically it can have a flat surface , a curved surface or a double curved surface , but I think if we wanna use standard components , we're gonna have difficulty with anything much beyond that . industrial designer: Okay , what does the interface look like ?  well push button , that's that's the one we're all familiar with . industrial designer: so you can have it like on a mouse where you can use it to go up and down , change volume or channel or something like that and push to select something .  you can have multiple scroll buttons ,  this is maybe getting a little bit complicated , but  it's it the technology is there . And we can also incorporate an L_C_D_ display in the remote , but this will increase the cost .  the electronics that actually makes the device work , we've basically got three , simple , regular , advanced , and the price goes up as we choose each of this . If you want the advanced chip it obviously costs more , but it that's what you need if you want the L_C_D_ display . Now I don't know what that is , but I think they think it's quite important and we might want to incorporate it somewhere .  ou our real expertise is in push buttons , I have to say , but maybe you think that's old technology . We can either go for a really cheap model , keep all of the costs down ,  which means a flat plastic case with an ordinary battery and simple push buttons . Or we can have something that looks a bit nicer , I think it ,  won't necessarily l  look like a pineapple , but  that may or may not be a good thing .  but it could have an L_C_D_ screen and it could have multiple scroll buttons , and it could have the the company's new development of the  sample sensor and speaker . industrial designer: Yeah , marketing:  do you have any idea if if this could if the fancy model could be done in twelve Euros fifty ? industrial designer: I'm afraid I don't have that information available . Because , you know what , I'm being quite serious when I say that that  the things I mentioned are hot . marketing: You know , if if what you're telling me is is  some of these things aren't just f aren't feasible , maybe we could something about naming , we could call it , you know , Blackberry . user interface: Bear bear in mind it has to be the colours and styles of the company , marketing: That's  user interface: so what I had been thinking was something chunky and yellow and plastic with black buttons with a logo on it . user interface: But  I I don't know how important that is to keep it exactly the colours of the Real Reaction company . But yeah , industrial designer: We we could we could do  a double curved rubber one , marketing: I'm trying to streamline mine a little bit . industrial designer: which would allow  say a banana , but  unfortunately I see from my notes that if we do that , we have to have a push button as the interface , marketing: Yeah . user interface: Shall we wait 'til I've 'til I've showed you what well , my extensive presentation on what sort of interfaces are available . industrial designer: user interface: F_N_ and F_ eight , did you say ? project manager: Yes . marketing: Oh I think  Florence resolved it by industrial designer: I If you do F_  F_N_ F_ eight again , it's it'll project manager: Do it again . project manager: Keep doing it until you get it in both you get it there , you get it yours without that one , industrial designer: I think it yeah , you you will do an project manager: and then you get it with both . I don't actually have a huge amount of different information then what Kate says , project manager: Okay . user interface: just that my method was to look at the , well , my my inspirations , which was a big collection of lots of different models of remote controls and other things that use a similar sort of thing , including M_P_ three players ,  like you know , hi-fi remotes , not just television and these things . user interface:  having a think about the feature of ea the features of each ones ,  what functions we actually need , and then how to group and arrange these on the actual the actual plastic or rubber hand-held piece .  I've been especially interested in the iPod style scroll wheel , which Well , I couldn't find a the picture of the iPod w only linked to a web browser , so I couldn't copy and paste it , but it had a similar thing to this thing on the right . user interface: So I was thinking that   a really simple a really simple interface with just a couple of scroll things on it  and then instead of a display the display could appear on the television screen . Like , you know , you press enter and it comes up with what's showing on that channel at the moment , and you can do you can scroll along and it'll show you what's on in the next half hour , and you scroll up marketing: user interface: and you can see what's on the other channels while you're watching the same channel on the screen . user interface:  which is really nice and fun and good to hold and nice , big , easy buttons to press , but still quite simple and quite cost effective . So project manager: user interface: what seems kind of ideal for me would be to just have a fairly simple ,  not fancy but not totally minimalist ,  just pretty simple plastic , probably , I was thinking , yellow and black , just because that's the company's colours , with very very few buttons , but that would correspond to a screen that would appear on the television screen , like , you know , just small along the bottom instead of instead of having the iPod style display screen on the actual remotes , which is far too expensive . user interface: And when you've got a screen sitting there in front of you , you might as well have it appearing  on the screen in front of you , it doesn't obscure much of the actual picture you're watching . user interface: And so on that you can , just much in the same way as an existing Sky remote , scroll along , scroll up and down .  titanium would be great , but I think it might be a bit too expensive and too kinda spacey . If we're k trying to keep it colourful and slightly organic , then I think titanium's too futuristic . industrial designer: It's difficult to make fancy shapes in it as well , we can't for example have a double curved case in titanium unfortunately . user interface:  then industrial designer: And the the having the the the screen on the television screen I think is a good idea , 'cause  otherwise we're we're putting up the price not only for putting building the L_C_D_ in , but for the electronics as well . user interface: Like when when when you've got when you've got the screen there , it doesn't have to be anything fancy , marketing: It's a duplication . user interface: just a little menu showing yeah , a menu , you go into one menu and then it can have your different options , whether you wanna change the settings or the you know , your information about programme that's on at the moment . But as for actually arranging them let me go back to the to the picture of the kiddie one . And I quite like it , 'cause it's just smooth and hand-held and it's got these easily reachable buttons that quite nicely  spaced out , so something a bit like that with buttons arranged in a kind of circle . industrial designer: Do you want scroll buttons in that as well ? user interface: I I was thinking not actually scroll , like a like mouse scroll , but you know , a I can't quite d  describe it . user interface: so you pick your menu and then your different options and when when you click on each one , it you can go into a new menu for that . marketing: user interface: Really we'd have to use something to show you , industrial designer: Yeah . I think I think that's a g nice clean design , user interface: but industrial designer: it's playing to our strengths which are in push button technology . But they all have this this feature of this  It's not quite a scroll wheel , but it's a kind of selection in this circle , project manager: It's a selection wheel . And then and then Yeah , so  either a channel up and down , volume up and down , next appearing programmes up and down ,  and then also when you get into the different menus on the screen , it's got your things like settings and contrast up and down . project manager: marketing: Do you think with  project manager: user interface: Might take up your whole living room . marketing: It seems that that  you guys are quite keen on the plastic , perhaps the something reminiscent of the child's remote . We we could actually do it in rubber instead of plastic if you'd rather if you feel if you like the spongy user interface: That also is possible . I'm thinking maybe we need to be a little bit more abstract if the design constraints are so project manager: Okay . user interface:  just something else I need to bring to your attention is have you have you seen these on a remote ? This is actually the volume up and down , project manager: user interface: which , when you first look at it , you expect that to be the down , because it looks like a downward pointing arrow , marketing: user interface: but it's actually the V_ to indicate that it's the volume , so  we do need to avoid little ambiguities like these . If we're having the scroll wheel , then it's gonna double up as all the other up and down functions . We have about ten minutes left , in which time we have to make some decisions on the remote control concepts .  we need to come up with some specifics of the components ,  the materials , things like making the decision on the energy  and the case and the interface type things . They want us to decide what form of energy are we going to use , which the choices that we've discussed were pretty much battery , kinetic or solar .  this is where Kate's expertise comes in , and our decision making will be a little bit guided by Kate at this point . industrial designer: project manager: The You were saying that the kinetic would be useful , that is you just have to move it some and you'd be able to use it  as opposed to a battery that you have to either put it in a recharger or  keep replacing the batteries .  or solar that you'd have difficulty with it if it's a dark day , that it'll die on you , and no way to do it . project manager:  so what's our pleasure here , what would be the cost consequences of each of the three ? industrial designer: Oh unfortunately I don't have costing information . industrial designer: I i in terms of workability , I I think the the two front-runners are the standard battery or the kinetic , project manager:  'kay . project manager: What's the  feelings of the group on the kinetic ? marketing: I've used kinetic in terms of watches and it's very very  handy , you don't even notice  that it's there . Sounds like it could be g a really good economical marketing: It's user interface: it would make the whole thing a lot lighter , more convenient . marketing: as  , you know , user interface: 'Cause it's really a quite attractive thought , marketing: throw the banana , you know , just gotta keep it moving . user interface: isn't it ? It's like yeah , project manager: So the consensus seems to be use the kinetic if it's at all possible . marketing: Be user interface: But it does depend how much  how much it costs and how much more development and research it needs . industrial designer: 'cause I'm conscious that watching T_V_ can be quite a sed sedentary activity . marketing: But I could market that as a  as a a I was thinking actually a a cost saver down the road , in terms of battery , you know . industrial designer: Oh right , okay , project manager:  the next thing that they wanted us to do was look at chip on print as a decision . industrial designer:  and I would certainly recommend it , I think , because I'm not sure I have an alternative . user interface: project manager: What about the ca industrial designer: I i it it's just the way that the the the  th the way it's ac it's actually built project manager: yeah .  what about the case ? I think they're talking there about do we want wood , plastic , titanium or rubber , industrial designer: project manager: and I think we've discussed not having titanium . What's the pleasure ? industrial designer: Well if if Sarah's keen on a spongy feel , the the rubber that we're talking about is the same as you have in those little stress balls , so it's marketing: That's exactly what I was thinking . project manager: What about you ? user interface: Do you not think it might need like a kind of a hard plastic inner shell with the actual delicate workings inside , and then a kind of spongy Yeah , s thick spongy cover , marketing:  . user interface: so it feels like the whole thing's spongy , but actually you're not damaging anything by squeezing it . user interface: Because  you could just get carried away with the with the tac industrial designer: I'd I'd need to talk to manufacturing again about whether that's actually possible , but I agree , it's  sounds like a nice idea if it is . Well you do get a bit carried away with things that are tactile , you just wanna stroke them and squeeze them , project manager:  . industrial designer: I should I should r marketing: I su project manager: I'm sorry to push you , but we only have a couple minutes to finish with . marketing: Then I'll just say I support either from a marketing point of view I support either decision that the designers make on that . No  a scroll Well , like four buttons , up , down , left and right with enter in the middle , that will correspond to a menu on the screen . industrial designer: Which I think technically is just push button and  I'd certainly support that that user interface: Yeah , industrial designer: that brings the cost down quite a lot user interface: I'd like push buttons with industrial designer: and it's something that we're an ex the company's an expert on . industrial designer: project manager: And they actually want a look and feel design , user interface design , you can look and see this as well as I can . industrial designer: You know , I think the the company's s next project should to design a better overhead device that switches immediately