Now hopefully we've all got a better idea from than we did f leaving the last meeting as to what it is we are up to now .  you should know that I'll be taking minutes during all the meetings , as I was struggling to our last time  and that'll be easier for me now because I'm not actually giving the whole presentation .  the additional points are just the stuff that we sent and that I forwarded on from upper management having a few bright ideas to make our lives painful . Here's the additional points I just wanted to put those in there to see if you guys had any comments on them . project manager: So does anyone have any overall marketing: Well  what comes up for me is that if we're gonna if we're gonna be marketing a product that is going to be  having no teletext , people are very comfortable with the idea of having teletext and using teletext , and so we're not we're gonna be a new product without something that people are very comfortable having right now . What are we gonna have that makes this thing better than project manager: Well tha that first point could  also be an op opportunity because in seeing that teletext is becoming outdated , some sort remote control that can work with the Internet there is the opportunity that's presented , I guess . marketing: So what I'm talking about is I see that one side we're eliminating something so we have to come up with another side which is , what are we gonna be targeting our market  that identifies our product as better than because it doesn't have teletext it has ta-ta-ta-ta-ta . So we're really probably , in terms of marketing , are looking for that's  that's a cost winner rather than a fantastic new feature product . industrial designer: So  we're gonna be removing the teletext out of any T_V_ that we people use our remote with . project manager: But there's also the potential for mark there's a market here for our lost teletext . project manager: For example someone that just goes to the shop that wants a replacement wants it as cheap as possible . marketing: That's what I'm that's what I'm talking about is is that we have to find something that is gonna be very attractive about this product 'cause somebody , some people are gonna be hap unhappy 'cause it took they can't ac access their teletext . 'Cause we're talking about eighty percent or ninety percent or ninety-five percent of the televisions out there are are teletext . marketing: So so it's it's not that I'm criticizing the product at all . It's just when we eliminate that then what do we bring ? What are we bringing in to take the place of this , project manager:  'kay . industrial designer: So then the double R_ will be our our project manager: On the product yeah . Can you handle that black and yellow ? user interface: I think one of industrial designer: I tho I tho I thou I think Rol Ro Rolls-Royce might mind , but don't worry . user interface: I think w , yeah , one of the things that we should also keep in mind  when we're doing this  our company's slogan is we put the fashion in electronics , right . So I think our kind of our target here is to have some kind of very like sleek nice look remote and we want it to be functional as well , but I think one of the main selling points is that we don't want it to be clunky like like this thing here . We want something that looks nice and it's fashionable and so marketing: So you have this ? project manager: Nah . But  click it on off ? user interface: so you all know me , I'm the Industrial Designer . And we've some basic components that  our remote is gonna need , just basically every remote'll need 'em .  we have to decide on our our user interface , which is his department , but the in user interface is also a major component .  we need a programmable digital signal processor to  to take the input from the user and translate that into  into electronic signal , which we pass to the infra-red L_E_D_ , which you aim at the television  which and it receives that signal . And  we also need to  have the if we want a universal remote we need to have encryption codes for the different makes of T_V_s . So we need to know all the different you know all the different signals and so that'll require some memory as well . You ha the v the power source is in the upper right-hand corner there , and you can see that  we have the user interface here which is connected to the chip which does all our signal processing , and then passes that signal on to the infra-red L_E_D_ and that signal is then emitted and received by the television at the photo-transistor . So those are the basic components that need to go into this and everything else is pretty much  open to move around . marketing: Now is would this be considered just a standard   user interface: I think any des marketing: This is not this is not cutting edge technology we're talking here . user interface: Yeah this is just this is just a basic layout of ev of all the components that w w are gonna be absolutely necessary f to have a working remote . We can add things in like if we wanted some voice recognition ,  that  that you can kinda say would would fall under the user interface and the digital signal processing chip . project manager: Do we have an idea of costs of different components ? user interface:  well the most the most costly components are gonna be the chip and the  th it could als basically the user interface and the casing are gonna be expensive as well . user interface:  the L_E_D_ and the the transistors and everything else are you know they're they're pretty cheap . So depending on what we want our functionality to be ,  the chip could be expensive or it could be cheap . user interface:  depending on the n amount of memory we need in there and stuff like that and h and h you know how much power . user interface:  but and I think a significant part of the cost could be the actual the actual casing itself and and you know the the b the buttons and things like that , I think . project manager: And you wanna get industrial designer: When we're fighting over it's also more lot more fun . project manager: View a slide show , that's what you wanna do , yeah ? Just go up to view .  you guys know me , Pedro , and  what I found is we want to do fashion and I think , honestly , we should keep technology low and just simple basically and try to aim for design . If basically a case will will cost the same if it looks good or bad so we ma we have to make it look good . project manager: industrial designer: And  although mo most people will buy s televisions and everything for  that have loads of loads of little functions and everything and they mostly end up using simple functions and little things and most the people won't won't get too mad of actually having to go the to the s to the television to , for instance , tune in their the stations . So   as for what I would recommend for  the the interface design , and  I will change the colours on the on the logo , but  we should go for the user-oriented device , so simple controls and good ergonomics .  and  although I th I th I'm still here recommending the teletext so I'll remove that , I guess , but  we should go for the project manager: But I t I think what the the management recommendation was less that there's a worry that teletext will become outdated rather than we shouldn't have it . So I I still think if it's cheap enough functionality-wise to include , it really should be in there . project manager: Because otherwise we're just going to  even if it's necessary or not , if you if you're given the choice between a t a remote with teletext or without  when it really if it i if it isn't more expensive for us to k make because as far as I understand it , it can be operated with the same set of buttons , yeah ? So it should be in there . I in the very beginning it said with the with the advent of computers there's gonna be the it's gonna be out-moded teletext . How does how does computers and teletext h how why is one eliminating the need of the other ? I don't understand that . project manager: Well maybe what we're getting into here is the the idea of  Internet through the T_V_ for example . industrial designer: Yeah the they're basically aiming at saying that you would use you know a couple of years ago teletext to be the easiest way to check like for   the scheduling and the next programme and stuff like that user interface: Scheduling . marketing: Yeah 'cause , yeah , I just I don't see the cross-over between computers and television .  I do see the cross-over in some sense , industrial designer: Yeah , but it's not happen yet . marketing: So so if we make the cross-over and we're gonna view television on computers then we're then we're losing the the necessity of the remote . S user interface: Unless you have a project manager: Well there there is a for example on digital T_V_ systems you have you can press a button and you can buy things in adverts , user interface: Yeah . project manager: A a family member of mine has got a system where you just  you can Yeah , and there's other features for example on other systems where you can pause live T_V_ and things like that . They're just features from the Internet  from computers are are coming into the T_V_ sort of under the covers , but you still use it through a teletext . project manager: So now the things to think here are that that there's gonna be more functionality , potentially that we can handle . And all of those require the other commands with more complexity and more software and user interface: I think a lot of that's proprietary anyways . If if it's , for example , a trainable one then we're just simply having like an up , down , left , right , an okay button or something like that might might do as well in future proofing it . industrial designer: Yeah but we would increase the price to try to make it a trainable one , so project manager:  . One way the other teletext was there but I guess we can remove it or , you know , make two separate interface designs . user interface: I think if it's possible you should try to you know have a talk with management about that . marketing: I I don't see the logic in elimination of teletext , I just I I project manager: Yeah , and neither do I in fact . industrial designer: project manager: I'll communicate that back to those guys there a a and th the message really we wanna be sending to them is that , although teletext may become outdated w there's no l logic in not having it in there anyway i if it doesn't affect the price . project manager:  but I I think what they're pushing us towards here is in terms of thinking of ways to future-proof our system for future systems that have something else other than teletext maybe . project manager: I dunno I'm industrial designer: Yeah but we're not putting some there's no no putting anything in in the place of teletext . marketing: So so w we can't go and pump a whole bunch of technology into this thing project manager: Yeah . So if we drop if we are gonna choose to drop teletext , again what are we adding to the product that makes it marketable ? project manager:  . So if we're keeping it basic we're loo loo what we're looking to sell it basically is it's  just being very easy to use , looking exceptionally good , that sort of thing . marketing: I don't I don't see it , and to me if I'm gonna market a product for b for beauty for for design I'm gonna I'm gonna try to market it at a much higher price . So I would market this product it at eighty-nine Euros and come up with some really beautiful exterior design or something th but but I don't think we have that flexibility . project manager: But i if design if design is cheap and functionality is basic , then twenty-five Euros is probably a high price for a commoner garden stan standard T_V_ so the place  remote the then the place we're going to justify that cost is through through design through making it a a sleek elegant high-priced basic remote . Does that make sense , huh ? marketing: No I no I I understand what you say , project manager:  . marketing: but what I'm what I'm , okay we probably need to move along , project manager: Yeah we probably should . marketing: but my my concern is trying to find a marketing niche for this product , project manager: We we're doing alright for time . marketing: and if I'm coming in with a with with twenty-five Euros , which is mid-market price ,  then what am I going to give these people for this ? project manager: Yeah . industrial designer: No just I I would I would advocate for continuing teletext and those would be the basic commands .  as for , you know , the the case design  maybe I'll come up with more concrete ideas . Right now it's just the idea of simplicity and slickness , cute and small  user interface: Right . I'm just thinking you know with all these universal remotes that are out there , how many people how many people actually use every feature that ar you know i like these trainable remotes and things like that , where , you know , it's just so confusing to do to use all these functions . Where I think the largest portion of the market is just gonna you know they lost their T_V_ remote , they need another one that'll work with their T_V_ . They want something that looks nice , that that that isn't gonna break when they drop it , that you know that maybe it's it's ergonomic , it feels good in your hand , something like that . user interface: I think that's gonna be where you're gonna find the biggest , you know , market share . project manager: So we are looking for something that looks good and just works , rather than looking for any special features . Is that user interface: I think the more bells and whistles we add , it's just gonna cut into our into our profits . user interface: Because I think as we as we add costs for things like  for like if we add the voice recognition and things like that , I think you know what percentage of the of the  of the market is actually gonna use that ? project manager:  . marketing: Oh P Pedro , I just want to say quickly I I would really like it when you can come up with some more bells and whistles , eh . industrial designer: marketing: You know sell  things come to my mind is   something that's   voice-activated . I know we're getting into some , I hope , some big money on this thing , but project manager: I think that's probably a question more for for this guy here , yeah . marketing: 'Cause  and I think of voice-activated I think of of how many times I've I've lost my my remote and I can't find it . So some way that I can I can find my remote by clapping my hands or something user interface: I'm trying to find some bells and whistles 'cause when they talk about tel taking out teletext , it's like , what are we gonna put in ? What makes this thing attractive ? And it's only for televisions . So we everyth our our competition out there has got these these multiple adaptors where they can use 'em for their V_C_R_s , their D_V_D_s , their their televisions and we're coming out with one remote for television only . marketing: I I I don't s I really have to say I don't see the market niche for this product . I'm I I go along with this , because this is what we're given to try to market , but I I don't see the market niche for this product without without some really sort of something really special to identify it as as unique in the market . industrial designer: I think technology we'd we we're not in the price range to do it . We don't have the money to do it towards t f technology so we should we should aim at design . marketing: Okay well , so so that's up to you then to to make this box in something that's absolutely extraordinary . Does any of the  the features that Pedro's spoken about here have any implications we might not have thought about on in terms of just pure functionality ? In terms of making it work or the cost of that or user interface: I don't I think all these things are pretty standard . marketing: Well you know for marketing f marketing for me is  and  how do I go here ? Okay . user interface: No no no marketing: Is that right ? user interface: you just get off that . Yeah , what for me is it  I d I don't know what I'm marketing right now , okay , 'til you spoke and when I wrote this , I don't know what I'm marketing . I just know that I I was identified as a a we identified ourselves as a as a developer , as a manufacturer , and as a as a  distributor t to other wholesalers . And so the th the twenty-five Euros that we've identified as the sale price is a wholesale price rather than a retail price .  so what I did is I I decided that that this this needs to be a product in a in a sense can market itself . So I say inspiration , so having something beauty , something attractive ,  something that in a sense will sell itself .  cutting edge technology , I don't think we're gonna have that , these were ideas I was putting together ,  unless we come up with some New Age product a as far as the casing is concerned . I I wanna make this thing something that I can identify as special in some way , so maybe we can have some I I talked about environmentally sensitive ,  maybe we have a product that can be identified in some way as advantageous in a home .  I wanted to talk about  who we are as a as a corporation , that we're new , we're aggressive , we're competitive , we're we're trying to provide a product from a new perspective rather than from an old corporate line . marketing:  we're kind of in the middle of the market , but what I'm seeing is that the market is ready for I I identified new technology , but again , because what I see is budget restrictions and limitations , I don't know that we can bring any new technology into this thing . user interface: And it's kind of along the s lines of environmentally sensitive , and it may even fit into ergonomics , and even kind of address the issue of losing losing the remote , what we were saying it's a common issue . user interface:  what we can do is , well you know that batteries throwing a aw remotes run through batteries like crazy . Well maybe not a solar remote but instead what about if we had like a power cradle ? marketing: But solar user interface: Like a a cradle that is is there to hold the remote when you're not using it , so you'll always know where the remote is 'cause you have to put it back there to charge the remote , and we can , instead of having instead of having , you know , replaceable batteries we'll just have a power cell that stays there for the life of the remote . And also you can I I think it's a good opportunity for the user design or for not just for the user design , but also for the just for the look and feel of the remote as as a whole . You know you could have some kind of neat little , you know , a sexy design for d a cradle and the remote itself . marketing: But boy , we can sell this thing , because there's no batteries , it's environmentally sensitive , i we can identify it as a safer product in some form . I really see project manager: Now the the question is can we make this for less than twelve-fifty per ? marketing: But the cost i No no . project manager: We we well do we necessarily have to change the end cost because  Can we dl can we do that without  changing it twelve-fifty per product , if we basically can sell more based on this ? marketing: There's   I don't see it anyway . user interface: Well marketing: I my reaction is no , but user interface: what I can do is I can d look into ho well Pedro and I can look into how much this might increase our our costs project manager: user interface: and you can look into what kind of effect an increased cost is gonna have on our on our final numbers . project manager: Yeah we we can certainly push for a more expensive product if that's gonna be marketing: Well , see I I see I I'm an advocate to make this an exclusive product . Let's make this thing really exclusive , environmentally sensitive ,  high-tech design ,  ergonomics , all of this . If you don't have one , hey what kind of remote do you have ? Oh you've got one of those , oh fantastic , I want one of those too . user interface: I just don't know about that , because in order to do that in order to price it at that kind of level I think we'd need to have every functionality that all the other competitors are offering like being able to operate , you know , the D_V_D_ player and , you know , the stereo system and all that . And additionally we're m maybe not supporting teletext  project manager: Nah , I think we can say with certainty now that we are supporting teletext . marketing: user interface: But I do think there are some basic features that we don't have that a lot of other remotes are going to have . marketing: Yep , one one thing I don't understand is h they've they've given us this package , okay . I don't think it's our place to create their product for them , maybe it is . I don't know what kind of role we have in this in the corporate ladder  , but to me it's like , okay , you have got your here's our ideas , okay . marketing: And then let them look at those ideas and they say , yeah well , we can we can raise the price twenty percent , you know we like this idea , this idea no , but to me it's it's about a choice , do we follow their directives or do we make  presentations back and and then and then discuss ? beca I I do not I do not see the market niche for the product that they're handing f handing us right now . I think our market niche is basically people who need who have lost their remote or  who've broken their remote and don't wanna send back to the manufacturer , they just wanna run out to the store and get a remote , and then they're gonna look on the shelf and they're gonna see ours is the nicest looking remote . These aren't I I think that it project manager: And and th to get to back to another point , sorry   for cutting in but , I th I think it's important to remember that that this remote has to work with multiple T_V_s , yeah , 'cause it's selling on its own . project manager: It's not going to be specifically for Hitachi T_V_s or or whatever . project manager: So technologically , if I understand it ,  T_V_s T_V_ remote's working exactly the same way as video remotes and D_V_D_ remotes . All you need to do is train them to the individual one , all you need to do is is know the the f like some four-digit code . marketing: project manager: So saying that it works with all T_V_s is equivalent to saying that it'll work with D_V_D_s and other things . industrial designer: Yeah y y you you wouldn't marketing: They've identified this product limita project manager: We have done this . marketing: That's why I say I don't I don't see the market niche for this . marketing: If we if w if we were going to have a product that worked for D_V_D_s , V_C_R_s and everything , then I can see the market niche , project manager: marketing: And it's like whoa we ha in my opinion we have to go with something that's extremely exclusive to make this thing marketable , user interface: Well here's project manager: And I I'd marketing: because who wants just a television remote ? project manager:  sorry . user interface: If you're in the market for this ultimate remote , you're not gonna go for just a television remote . If it can't control if it can't control your your D_V_D_ player and a al if y if you can't get that all-in-one ultimate remote , that just you can throw all your other remotes away . marketing: That's why I say I quest I q I question the marketability of the product . user interface: So that's what I'm saying project manager: The the one thing that that that you said really struck a chord with me here in that we're we're carrying the corporate identity with the product , but we're actually looking for a large profit at the same time where I'd be inclined to go back to upper-level management and say like let's just cut down our profit expected on this product because we are actually branding our company here . We're trying to get mind-share about  Real Reaction to to the people who are gonna buy consumer electronics . We want people to eventually say , oh that's that's Real Reaction that's a good m make . And and we're gonna make it we're gonna win mind-share by  either being a fantastic product industrial designer: project manager: or for it working , it just being good , reasonable-priced , and solid . So if we can make if we can put an emphasis here on it not breaking I think that's in itself an extremely big thing . marketing: W okay if you if you drop the cost , now if you make if you make go to the other side of the cost scale , and you make it less expensive , then all of a sudden now we're going into an a a new market area . So we can say low-cost     good design , beautiful , wa-da-da-da-da-da . project manager: Is twenty-five Euros a mid-market price for a remote ? marketing: project manager: Okay . marketing: for for multi for a multi-function remote , that's a mid-market price . In a discount right now you can buy 'em on sale sometimes for about about  eighteen , nineteen Euro , project manager: Okay . marketing: and that's for the multi-functions ,  D_V_D_ , V_C_R_ ,  catch-alls . And and they have 'em in a little box in the middle , and and this is the consciousness that most people have about replacement remote controls . We have to have something that will change people's thinking to identify this as advantageous , and I don't know what that is . project manager: Well I'd be inclined to say , if we can make the design better than any comparable remote while reducing the cost , then that's the way we really should play it . If we can take it down to you know fifteen rather than twenty-five and make a low profit-margin on it , user interface: Yeah . marketing: Or my d project manager: And I can communicate this to to the more senior   people within the company here to to get a reaction . user interface: What about  the idea that I had with the cradle ? How do you feel about that ? project manager: Well how does everybody feel ? user interface: Or how does everybody feel ? marketing:  I I well we g we're talking about the other end now . user interface: No , but I that's the thing I I don't think it's necessarily the other end . marketing: I like the idea , but we have t we have to find out project manager: The other the o the problem with that in my mind I just think off-hand as a as a consumer , would I wanna buy that ? And I think maybe not because I've got a remote and I'll take it to different chairs , I'll take it to different user interface: It i if it is gonna be somewhere that you put it down then it needs to be at the side of your armchair , user interface: Right . So it's very good for some people but it's not a like user interface: Well it lasts it would last for several hours on its own power , but when you're done with it you put it back in the cradle . project manager: You have to d shift down the side of the couch to find it and put it back and user interface: project manager: I d I d I d I think it it in my mind it doesn't seem like something that oh I'd really want  because of that fact . You know if we're gonna go in this direction , to me we're going to the other side of the cost range . marketing: Are we gonna make this selling selling the cost as a high high-tech   environmentally sensitive whatever , or are we gonna go to the lower side of the range ? Again I don't see our market niche in the middle for our product yet . project manager: So what do we think maybe we should Pedro , do you have any opinion on it ? industrial designer:  we should keep it simple ,  medium-low cost mar  cost area and  make it look good . marketing: W a question I have in in a 'cause I I I think I agree with you on , we gotta make it a box . marketing: Can can can we have multiple designs ? Have a modern , have a traditional , have a you know , and so so instead of them all looking the same , people can have maybe four or five different designs they can choose from . I don't know what that creates cost , or user interface: Well the the problem with that is we may end up with a whole bunch of inventory of a of a poor design you know . industrial designer: Yeah , complicated but user interface:  but what we could do is some kind of well  Yeah we we need to , have a few designs to look at and then come up with something that I think we all agree is , you know , the best fit . I think w what's really important is it has to look good , it has to feel it has to feel good in your hand , project manager: Yeah . user interface: it has to be durable , it has to a and I think it's really important that it doesn't look cheap . I think I think we have to make sure people look at it an and feel like it its like a quality remote . marketing: What ab what ab what about a a remote that's that doesn't maybe look like a remote ? Just an idea . Maybe that could be part of our design exclusivity , is we make a remote that doesn't even look like a remote it it opens like a telephone . user interface: Or what if it looks like a pen ? marketing: Doesn't matter , yeah . user interface: A pointer ? marketing: It That's the thing , I'm gonna keep thumping on .  I really un unless you guys are die-hard against the fact that  it's possible like it reduces the usability of the remote b and the fact that you can't lose it on your own , I think it still might be a good idea to investigate having like a power cradle . user interface: Because I really think i in a certain sense it almost like for me I would want to have that just , because I know at the end of when I'm done watching T_V_ that when I'm done , oh I better go find the remote and put it back where it belongs . project manager:  there's al there's also remote controls I remember that that worked  , this hasn't been done in a while I think , but th as a as a watch . user interface: As a watch ? project manager: Yeah , there is remote control watches  , user interface:  'kay . project manager: but I think they're a sorta eighties thing , so it might not be easy to market in it  but the the technologies came along and it might be cheaper to make now . marketing: One thing I just thought about when you were saying that , is that the p our target market is gonna be someone who has lost or broken project manager: user interface: That's what I was saying . So how many remotes do they wanna buy ? Can we p can we sell them a remote that can maybe guarantee they will not need to buy another one ? user interface: Exactly . marketing: And so with with with this kind of system or locator or something , to to think about , how have people been been losing or breaking their remote ? user interface: user interface: And also presumably they've marketing: And and then and then design the product , maybe some component of the product that can identify this as the last one you'll ever need to buy . project manager: Well if if we're going down that then we can we don't need to go the user interface: Exactly . project manager: it it strikes me that the locator feature might actually be  quite expensive to make . project manager: Whereas actually just putting it in a power cradle might not be too expensive at all because that's just done with mobile phones user interface: True . project manager: you can just n we we have said we have actually similar products that we can take from and potentially cut costs there . project manager:  need to look into whether we can do that but  I think we we have some m mobile phone-based products  checking quickly our Internet . marketing: It's  just it's that I think it's telling us to stop our meeting . marketing: So we have the c we probably have have on-line in our in our system , we have the ability to create this , we're talking about . project manager: without it being too In fact we can cut costs through using the manufacturing that's already gonna be in place here . marketing: If if we can create this we have probably five or six or seven really strong marketing characteristics . user interface: I think one of the things that we can put right on the box is , never buy another battery