marketing: So do we need to re-train Mike on how to put his mic on ? project manager: We may do . industrial designer: Think s marketing: Okay , can he get it all by himself this time ? project manager: I dunno , I'm feeling like a big boy . Pro marketing: industrial designer: Probably not , 'cause he's 'S been listening to too much . We're gonna all do a presentation , and then hopefully we're gonna make some decisions now .  you've got a printed a printed  circuit board here , and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber nubbies into these little holes that activate marketing: project manager: We've all broke a remote control ri  s yeah . industrial designer: marketing: I've user interface: So you've also got  you've got your chip here , your batteries here , and some sorta electronics . industrial designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and project manager: You press this and it does th user interface: Well marketing: Yeah y do jabber user interface: so you've got here's here's a transistor , and this amplifies your signal , industrial designer: user interface:  you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the   on the end of the printed circuit board . user interface: So  we've got a i in this in this  drawing he  in this example here , this is a eighteen pin   chip I dunno . You can use a basic battery , which we've already discussed ,  th our tech department also said we have the option of doing some kind of hand dynamo where maybe you crank it or something like that . user interface: I don't know if that's really marketing: I I gotta I gotta flashlight , and  user interface: I don't know we got some qu crazy guys down there in that department so industrial designer: project manager: Okay . user interface: So that's the next bullet is the  the kinetic provision of energy , marketing: And that's on the camera . user interface:  we've got solar cells , which I don't think is a very good idea because  you could not use your remote at night which doesn't make a lot of sense . project manager: Okay so we basically have battery versus cradle here ? user interface: M battery versus cradle I think is yeah . project manager: It's actually a novel thing because you could sell it a as a novelty , just to be actually serious for a minute here , user interface: Yeah . project manager: you could user interface: Well it is it is more   it is more eco-friendly than the than the cradle 'cause you're still using power off the grid with the cradle . Our material choices are a plastic latex  ty or plastic , a rubber latex type thing ,  wood , or titanium . If we go with titanium we're gonna be  limited in the amount of shapes we can do because it's tough to shape the titanium , and  Yeah pers project manager: Wood wood would ge would give us a little bit of a marketing niche , wouldn't it . user interface: I I can't see anybody wanting to use a wooden remote , it's just anti-technology really , you know . We can we can o we can  accentuate whatever whatever product you put in there we can find a way to accentuate it . user interface: And what we may be able to do , and I think this might be the best option is to combine some a couple of these .  my recommendation personally would be to do some kind of a plastic inner shell with a like a rubber outer shell , to make it  to mak  like a thick plastic inner shell and a t  kind of a to have that rubber outer shell to make it more durable , and also maybe i I think it feels a little better than the plastic . user interface: Yeah  marketing: And if you make it from that super rubber , when you drop it on the floor it can bounce right back up in your hand . user interface: The advantages of working with plastic and rubber is w we we'll have a lot more  options just in terms of shape industrial designer: marketing: user interface: because you can extrude plastic in basically any shape you want . So  and then we can cover you know the breakable bits with rubber yeah so  project manager: Okay . user interface: But basically these are curved and double-curved I I believe that the tech department , in their  in their message to me , that they were referring to the number of th curves in the bottom . user interface: but that's what they told me , uncurved , flat , curved , or double-curved . industrial designer: user interface: I would guess this like this pen would be kinda like a double-curved , where it's curved on m m multiple axes , right ? I think curved means just curved in one axis and double-curved is curved in two axes project manager: Okay . project manager: I think it might mean something like that sorta shape because a double curve rather than a marketing: - yeah that's yeah that's what I see .  okay , with the interface we have the following options , we can u we can use push buttons , we can use a scroll wheel with an integrated push button , and L_C_D_ display , marketing: Ooh .  so these are all options that the user interface guy can  has at his disposal to put together a user interface . A simple chip , which is the least expensive , but I have no numbers to give you , project manager: user interface: a regular chip , which is like the medium porridge the medium expense  project manager: D do we have actually any concept of what the difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chip ? user interface: Yes the difference is , with a simple chip a simple chip will operate oh why doesn't this scroll up ? Previous previous , okay . user interface:  an advanced chip is required to to operate  the L_C_D_ display , and it didn't say specifically , but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels . project manager: Technical functions or interface concept ? user interface: I think industrial designer: Oh interface concept . user interface: project manager: user interface: industrial designer: Well that doesn't bo bode well for it for it tats as well . It it it you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and user interface: If the T_V_ is working , yeah . project manager: user interface: That's just  it'll if somebody says up in the middle of a television show , it's gonna change the channel . industrial designer: Yeah and and fighting for the remote would not be fun anymore , user interface: So industrial designer: and I think that's one of the things we wanna keep . project manager: But what if you actually had to press a button to make it recognize ? So if you pressed it and went , up ? industrial designer: That kinda would r d user interface: Well then why don't you just press the up button ? project manager: Man yeah . project manager: But if it's just one thing with a button that you can just go Up . user interface: Even still there's gonna be interf th there's there still will be interference from the T_V_ . user interface: It might not be it might not be completely confusing , but I think you'll still y it's still marketing: user interface: I don't think it's practical at all . industrial designer: Yeah so  taking that away , our  the the the rubber but rubber buttons are the more reliable project manager: You guys know your stuff . industrial designer: it's the the ones that would al would allow us to to market our product as being you know less prone to damage and more resistant to things like spillage of liquids over it or you know mistreat misuses as it happens to remote controls . Well , we wanna small r remote control one side because  we want it to be cool and  designed , but  apparently  market shows that bigger s bigger  remotes get less lost , user interface: That I would believe . user interface: industrial designer: But  yeah I think we we need to compromise between those two and somehow we'll do that .  so the the what I would propose is something more or less in the  direction of what is to yo the right of that slide  but without with a l a less complicated  design , so the numbers , the volume control , and channel control , and teletext access .  the volume and channel control can just become those the the four button array as in if it was a round dial . industrial designer: And  if you just think about it as the one to the right but with the numbers and the four buttons plus maybe a centre one with teletext . project manager: So we're suggesting doing a sorta scroll wheel thing for the volume ? industrial designer: Ye no it's not user interface: That's not a scroll wheel . industrial designer: i i it's just four buttons that are on a cross , project manager: Nah . user interface: Instead of play , stop , rewind , and fast forward there , that's up , down , louder , and quieter . industrial designer: Yeah  yeah so I think we w we go for something mid-sized , so something looks good marketing: industrial designer: and  is not too prone to get lost . When I s when I see the when I see the product I I I I don't wanna buy it . There's nothing about that product that makes me wanna choose that product over other products that are out there . user interface: Are you talking about the picture ? That's not our that's not our b design , marketing: Yeah yeah . user interface: that's just a that's just something he a a graphic he used to show you the layout of what the layout of the buttons might be like . Okay 'cause 'cause right now I don't have too much to say about how to market this product because we don't have a product to market yet . marketing: And  from from talking to Mike is that we have we have  we can market a more expensive product now . marketing: And and so yeah I'm a I'm a little bit stuck right now in that what  w what is it that I'm gonna market ?  without special or increased marketable features I don't believe the product has a consumer demand .  I like the idea of of the scroll makin there are so many people making these products at this price right now . What are we gonna do to make this one special and unique ? user interface: What's special and unique about a scroll ? marketing:  well I don't project manager: It's cool .  I say that it's different I what I'm looking for as marketing is m give me something different . I give me a lower price , give me a higher price , give me some new technology , don't give me the same thing that everybody else is putting out there on the shelf it's f at the same price . project manager: I'd I'd say though that we if we did make the decision to go with the cradle though , the then we have that as well , marketing: What i if when when we have project manager: but wi with a similar marketing: yeah when we when we have something like the cradle or or something give that's as as a marketing standard I need something to market , to make this product unique . user interface: Well right I think the two big th points that we have so far are the having the cradle and also having  the  the actual design of the  case itself having like this like rubber shell maybe with a plastic interior , marketing: Yep . Just remember when I made up this report I didn't have the information that we're discussing here . marketing: And and so so  yeah when we have a cradle , when we have some kind of design , so what I'm saying is , from my perspective , I don't have a product to market right now .   my personal preference is that we make some adjustment in the cost , either lower or develop an integrated new technol technology . That's that is the next step , there's technology and then there is technology , which we're moving into the next phase . industrial designer: marketing: And so  we're gonna have some new technology to enhance the marketability . Yeah  again I'm not sold on the product because we don't have a product in my opinion yet . project manager: So now marketing: If you if you give me if you give me a cut-out of what everybody else has then I need to I need to find a lower cost . project manager: So our big questions here really are cradle or not cradle ? Do we go basic or do we go for features ?  d does anyone really wanna do anything with the scroll wheel or should we ditch that off-hand first ? user interface: Well my question is what would the scroll wheel do ? Function-wise , what does that do that project manager: Oh but that was in your presentation so wh what would you imagine it doing ? marketing: Yeah wh wh what's the wh user interface: Yeah . Well it's it's just another way to do the exact same thing that the buttons do . project manager:  'kay industrial designer: But would we marketing: Okay now what I see with the scroll wheel is everybody has buttons . So from a marketing standpoint I have I have another door to walk through when we have something that's unique . marketing: If it creates something more complex or more expensive , then I don't know if that makes it  a marketing necessity . But again , from a marketing perspective I want as much new and different about this thing as possible because we're we're co it's a very competitive market . project manager: What I understand about scroll wheels is they're they're quite expensive to to make . project manager: So I d user interface: Th they are gonna be more expensive , but on the other hand , it  it is an alternative if if you think that's gonna sell some some  you know if if we're gonna make up the extra cost by extra sales I think maybe it's worth it to do it , but  I would just use if I was gonna do this I would just use the scroll wheel for s channels up and channels down . user interface: No we can we can do multiple scroll wheels but project manager: Well I d I like the idea of basically focusing the my personal preference is focusing the p the product on the idea of the  the case the the  dock to put it in to to charge it . project manager: And if we we keep the rest in a format that is durable because th th the whole product's gonna need to be more durable th thus because you're not going to be ditching it as often . I think we got some exclusivity in that , you know , we got something that nobody else has right now , user interface: Yeah . marketing: and and that means we can we can make some adjustments in the retail or wholesale price if we need to and it also can create it's own demand from it's uniqueness . project manager: So our big decision then is like how do we do  like we have to decide on the details and we have to decide on well n not exactly the details , but d do we have  What type of casing ? I personally like what you were saying about the plastic with the rubber . project manager: user interface: I'm thinking yeah something like kinda almost like these pens , you know , where there's you have plastic bits and then it's not really rubber but just kinda like a fused the plastic with rubber on the outside . Just a very thin sorta sheet for a a grip , sorta thing or for user interface: Well no ma yeah maybe a bit more then th is on here but ju just as a kind of an inspiration , these pens I think are are kind of project manager: Okay . So then if we d d do we want to do anything more basic with the  more advanced with the user interface in terms of do we want to go for  buttons , or do we want if we're ditching the scroll wheels do we want to go L_C_D_ ? Do we want to give do we want to have anything else on it ? industrial designer: It's only a T_V_ . user interface: Or from from my perspective I think L_C_D_ is a mistake because this is a universal remote and all you're doing  it's you're not gonna get any information back from the television , so the only information you can display on this remote is what channel you just sent it at last and there's just not a lot of information , you know , there . user interface: So I I don't see any reason for having an L_C_D_ 'cause it's an increased cost . Yeah right now there's right now there's nothing coming out of the T_V_ to receive , so you know unless technology changes and information starts coming out of the a cable box or something there's no s I don't see the , user interface: Right . project manager: Okay so the question is now I guess we need t to decide on well y you guys basically have to now go and figure out the details of this thing . marketing: project manager: So , what we need to know in terms of marketing and  project management are are there any other questions that we need to answer now before you guys can go and build this ? marketing: project manager: What what overall things have we not decided on ? user interface: Well we have to I think for me it's still not exactly clear exactly what the inter user interface is gonna be . There's the scroll wheel , in or out ? What do you guys like in the user interface ? project manager: I think maybe in terms of marketing , is that gonna make enough of a difference to justify the cost ? marketing: Again . Well I think it's it's the more uniqueness you can bring to the product , the easier it is , I believe , for me to market . And so we can go with the same thing , but we're gonna be com competing in a in a broader market than if we go with something unique . You know the other thing I thought about was you know , do we go to something like this ? Make a remote that doesn't look like a remote . It's just another it's just a an idea , and I don't know user interface: Well I dunno about like the flip-phone idea , because I think , as far as durability th it's not a big well maybe when it's closed . marketing:  what I see one of the things one of the things you brought up in an earlier presentation is , when you got children , their their stuff gets inside the circuitry , they get dirty , they get messy with drinks and stuff . marketing: And what I keep throwing out there I just keep throwing out ideas to try to make this thing look or act or in some way identify itself as unique or different . project manager: Yeah and I guess th th the question th th that you're being asked right now is whether is the dock enough of a unique feature to be able to go out and sell that a a as a a very different product , or do we really need the scroll wheel as well ? marketing: Oh okay project manager: Because the scroll wheel comes at quite a cost . I think if you can have the base station with a with a locator , I think those are two very strong features , user interface: Well marketing: if that's something that can be integrated without a bunch of extra cost . user interface: The The locator's gonna require a radio transmitter , which will marketing: project manager: That's gonna n is that gonna need a better chip as well ? user interface:  we're probably gonna have to go with a like a medium chip , s I would imagine . marketing: So it's just  I I think that's user interface: It should be a really simple signal though so marketing: I know personally that would be a very attractive feature , is to have a  have a button I can push to find my remote control . project manager: And it's presumably gonna need a little speaker in it or something like that as well to beep . project manager: But I guess a little tiny speaker is gonna be quite cheap , it's not gonna need q quality , is it ? It's user interface: Oh yeah yeah . marketing: Or maybe you can like have a a smell-o-rama , you know you push a button and it s puts out a stink . project manager: marketing: You can industrial designer: Maybe not marketing: project manager: Makes your living room more fresh as you watch . I think that  user interface: So the scroll wheel , in or out ? project manager:  pr my personal preference is out . I don't think the cost is justified for a little bit more uniqueness when we already have that , and I don't s think it's obvious and natural how it would be used . Yeah I think we have like and it's not very usable and it will bring down the robustness of the whole thing , project manager:  . marketing: user interface: I don't know exactly what the increased cost is gonna be , but I think he does have a point , i it might push somebody over the edge when they're looking at our at our remote versus something else , when they see this one has a scroll wheel to go up and down on the channels . project manager: But then that that surely d depends a little on the T_V_ marketing: W project manager: because some T_V_s are quite slow at changing channels from like so user interface: Sure . project manager: if you've got a scroll wheel and you s you have to scroll scroll it really really slowly just so that you're actually keeping in pace with the T_V_'s ability to to change channels . project manager: You scroll it a bunch of times and you wait for it to user interface: Well I think wh what it would be is like like the m like this , where it's maybe you know a digital wheel , right , where it's where it's quantized into you know certain project manager:  . That's where you user interface: That was that was my my intuition of what the scroll wheel would be . marketing: user interface: It's just it's basically it it's just a f look and feel thing . marketing: I I think there's you know that  there are so many people today that are that are surfing are television surfers , and I see the scroll as a as a great mechanism for surfing . project manager: Yeah if you're just sitting there going marketing: Instead of going button-to-bu you just j you'd j j j j j j . user interface: Now just just so you know though  you did bring up a point which is very valid , is a lot of T_V_s won't re the T_V_s won't respond exactly the same . Some of them are gonna be kinda slow switching , so you may like queue up like fifteen channel changes , and it'll be like flip , flip , flip . user interface: But project manager: You could basically make it so that it'll  it's just gonna be sending a signal to the T_V_ yeah the T_V_'s ge so if you send about five flip channels , if you did that it's gonna flip once . user interface: Yeah it just might be frustrating where you can't make it go as fast as you want , project manager: Other than click click click . user interface: but I think once people get used to it I I do like the idea of the scroll wheel though . project manager: And if we're marketing it as a high niche product , then we're gonna be selling it to people who are buying good T_V_s as well , yeah , presumably . marketing: Now the the only thing I I on the interface side of it , is that I I I see the dilemma . But if we have the option of of scrolling at any particular speed , or the option of jumping direct , okay . marketing: So I can go  presuming I have , on my television , something that tells me what channel I'm on , I can scroll direct from channel five to channel thirty two . So I don't know that really that's that's gonna be a a d problem , 'cause the television can go automatically from channel five to channel thirty two with the push of a button . marketing: So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system ? You understand what I'm saying ? user interface: I think I know what you might be getting at , or or project manager: Oh I see so if maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it , right ? And then it that basically marketing: Oh no we could read it from the television . user interface: Well , what about this what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels , project manager:  . user interface: and it c it project manager: You'd need a display on the th the thing . user interface: Why ? It'll tell you when you flip the channel on the T_V_ . You say programme start , and then type in marketing: Put user interface: 'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type 'em in manually . user interface: So programme start , zero , one , enter , zero , five , enter , thirty eight , enter , programme end . project manager: and that just basically flips between it and it'll go it sends out zero , five , and then thirty six , and then zero , one again . project manager: That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really . user interface: Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes , between going through your favourites list and just hitting up one , up two . marketing: Or we go directional up we go we go this we go this we go this way for one , we go this way for the other . project manager: Yeah people are gonna have their favourite sorta , whether they do that or whether they marketing: Ah-ha okay . user interface: I think we'll need a we'll need a mode switch , but then if we have a mode switch we're gonna need some kinda indicator project manager: Just the lights behind the buttons . user interface: to which , an L_E_ an L_E_D_ project manager: You could have back-lit buttons maybe . And if we're making back-lit buttons period , do we want that just for the mode indicator or maybe to indicate what button you're pressing at the time , so that you know if it's actually pressed or not . Just so you know I think  it was my understanding that before we were gonna stay in the mid-market range . project manager: Yeah well we don't have it's not that we have more money , marketing: Didn't you say so ? project manager: we can push up the the price . marketing: So I don't know I don't know whether having user interface: I just wanna make sure everybody's on board with it . So we really need to be sure as to what we can push the cost up to , though we haven't got to a stage where we're ready to pin down the price of components . But I'd say what sorta price are we looking to be able to sell something like that , and what sorta price can we make it for ? marketing: Well I think th I think the design and technology has to come back and say , okay to create this product we see it's gonna cost us this much for this volume , because we do have a volume target of of fifty million profit . project manager: Yeah no I I think that's where we really should be more flexible than anything else because as we said in the last meeting , our management is really looking for us to push our brand . project manager: so I think the the profit expectation for this one product is maybe not as important as being able to marketing: Okay I'm I'm okay with that . I guess what I just want to me the next step is for these guys to come come in with the design proposal w with the cost estimate attached , and then we have to take this to the next level . project manager: But th what's our ballpark as to what we'd be able to sell something like this for ? user interface: Well y yeah . Let's let's try and think now , how much would you pay for marketing: We have to find cost . user interface: with all these features how much would you pay if you went to the store , and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote , how much would you pay for that ? project manager: But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market . project manager: I'm a student , but on the other hand I would think ,  with my Project Manager salary , I would think yeah I could probably afford this user interface: If industrial designer: user interface: Then you could probably afford this . If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel , which I think's a really cool idea , that would sell me on it a little . I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly , that would be way too much , user interface: Oh no no . project manager: but the I would be happy paying over forty for it , I guess , but not much user interface: I would say thirty five to forty . marketing: Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television . industrial designer: Okay so we'll come up with something between thirty five and fifty that is rug rubber , robust , with scroll wheel , with the new facilities of the scroll wheel like favourite stuff , favourite channels , and and with a cradle , and yeah and the locator . The next meeting starts in thirty minutes , although does it ? It starts at three twenty one , the next meeting . marketing: Well I have Is my three twenty one is the next meeting ? project manager: The the ne next meeting is three twenty one yeah . project manager: Okay are there any other questions with regards to what this thing's gonna do , look like , how it's gonna work that need to be addressed before we really look at this in a lot of detail ? user interface: I don't think so