industrial designer: Okay , project manager: Yeah ? industrial designer: how can I get this on the whiteboard ? project manager: Well it's you dumped the file in the  in the sh in the project document folder .  , diodes ,  bat batteries and   LED lights , they're needed and they're  everywhere available . It's a common  technology  , like I told   , the circuit board , it's the most  important   part of the remote control .  , we can use for that  fibreglass with copper wires , it's it is  can be made as fast as printing paper . project manager: But you don't think it's a problem  to design  the technical part of the remote control ? It's gonna be easy ? industrial designer: No . M user interface: With technical industrial designer: no , it's  it's just a part of  a known technology , yeah . industrial designer:  user interface: But I kind of  industrial designer: I don't think so , project manager: Okay . industrial designer: because of the all the televisions  there are a few maybe a couple of televisions with the new functions , user interface: Yes . industrial designer: but is it useful to put them on a on a standard  remote ? project manager: Well , we'll see .  , well I don't know if you got the same  pictures as I got , project manager: No . user interface: and I think they're we have to focus  on  the  one hand the expert view or the novice user . th I think it's it's very much  depending on the user requirements , I don't s  know who's doing t project manager: Well ,  will there be some  user requirements later on ? The ones I I've  received from the account manager . user interface: Yeah , but it I think that's very important to watch  what kind of functions there we want to  put in a remote control . user interface: Yeah , well y we can put functions in it when  yeah , when we  get the user requirements  and we can update it . we should we should choose one  we should not compromise but  really choose for  expert viewer or novice v marketing: Yes , I agree . user interface: Well , yeah w if you want try a a a huge market , if you want to reach a huge market ,  like elderly people and we have to choose for novice user . It's it's really  depending on how how how far the the the remote controls are already in n  in use . Well , some of that will Yeah , but i but it will be more clear when we come to the  u  some of the new requirements . project manager: So user interface:  well , there are l at least  basic functions ,  like just th the channels  one till nine ,  on and off switch , which must be clear with a red button or something like that .  , most standard  have volume , of course , and a mute function , and , of course , the next and previous channel .  Yeah , I just   I thought Joost was looking at the trendy the trends in the markets , and I don't know if there  are any   if you put more functions , more buttons , maybe it's com becoming less trendy or something like that . user interface: M you can just you can k marketing: I haven't really found a conclusion like that .  , I th I thought the the with less buttons you can make a more trendier  marketing: Design . project manager: user interface: Yeah ? marketing: user interface: well , that's all I have to say , I think . The working method  there were hundred   w h one hundred people ,  how do you say  , f watched using remote controls in the usability lab and they also  filled out a questionnaire  with a few questions .  , ask whether  common remote control looks good or not , about willingness to spend money on remote control , about zapping behaviour , and  and stuff like that . So if we make a trendy design , we sure have seventy fi seventy five percent of the market , which you can reach .  , channel selection , volume and buttons for text , and the more  , yeah , other functions , like audio settings , video settings , sound settings are not said to be very important and  very much used . And  an important thing here , the most important customers  , which is over seventy percent of our market , is in the age range of thirty six to sixty five years old . And  elderly people , our market , are less interested in  nice features , but more willingly to spend more money on remote controls . We shouldn't implement too much features on  on our remote control , because elderly people will get th lost .  , all the settings , about audio settings , video settings and channel settings , which are not very often used , we could group them  on one button and make them accessible  in one menu button or whatever , because they are used very rarely and well , it  there are a lot of options there , so we can really make  yeah , how do you say , we can spare at buttons over there . marketing: And  , if you want to implement V_C_R_ and D_V_D_ options , group them in the button , not too  Yeah . Small buttons , so they won't be very  , how do you say project manager: Visually presents . And a trendy look , well  , although seventy percent of the market is  consists of elderly people  who don't really care for trendy looks or whatever , I guess it can do no harm to make it trendy for the other thirty percent . project manager: Well , then we I'm gonna show you some of the new project requirements and then we gonna discuss on  what features we find important . Well , I think that may be so , but well , we can't just leave the teletext button off . project manager: So the compromise we could make is just to make one teletext button , you know , like on and off , and don't make a lot of special put a lot of special features on it to make it transparent or marketing: Not too much , no . project manager: You know , it's just you want you want to be able to make use of teletext , but not to play with it that much . Otherwise , the project becomes more complex , which endangers the time t t ma  the time to market . So maybe we should leave all D_V_D_ and V_C_R_ related features off completely . So you  talked about the elderly who were willing to spend more on a remote control and who were interested . project manager: But , well , they're not relevant because we are aiming at a younger marketing: I don't really agree actually , to be honest . It's a very small market which we will approach then if we  want to reach customers younger than forty . project manager: Yeah , but it is it's is a dif it's a fact that the th th that bigger market you're talking about , we already cover that . marketing: Mayb yeah ? project manager: Our company already sells remote control to the older people , but we we also want , you know , a new customer group . project manager: no no , but I think we have to just keep in mind what the older age group wants . So maybe we can make a remote control that's primarily interesting for the younger group , but isn't that bad for an older person either . user interface: But what's our slogan ? project manager: Sorry ? Yeah , you will have to look that up . I thought it w might be , let's make things better or something , but user interface: Sense simplicity . Well , if I can  make a start , I think it's becoming more clear what kind of remote control it's gonna be , and I already talked about the maybe you have a f familiar with the rem remote control that has the the can opener underneath it . I think we're we're looking for some marketing: project manager: Yeah , we we're looking for a really simple remote control with only basic T_V_ functions . marketing: Well , to be honest , if  our  aim group is  till forty , not older than forty , maybe that's not very  yeah , we don't really need to have a simple remote control . marketing: I think we can implement more functions then , because  basically  the younger people are more able to adapt to new technology user interface: Yeah , but wha project manager: Yeah , yeah . marketing: and therefore will be a more project manager: M yeah , that's why  well a lot of  the use the requirements the the account manager sent me , I think they are are c are contradicting each other , user interface: But project manager: because they want a simpler design , and no  other  s functions than just T_V_ , but they s do aim at a younger marketing: Yes . project manager: Well , ma user interface: Yeah , but you sai you said that that a lot of functions aren't used . user interface: So why should j we put this function in ? marketing: Well , I think user interface: I think more I think  people younger people are more looking for just a trendy look than  more functions . industrial designer: project manager: But I think  you we can make some discuss  distinctions in  what kin in the , know , th th in functions you have Y Well you have different kind of  equipment in your room , like a t T_V_ and a D_V_D_ player . project manager: You can  , know , you you can make very d you can put very detailed functions regarding the T_V_ set on your remote control  with the with  the , you know , audio settings and  v  screen settings . But w maybe we should put some func  , I know that the younger people will most likely have a D_V_D_ player they want to , you know , they want to  marketing: Yeah , control . user interface: Yeah , d yeah , but th the functions are not in the remote control we're making . marketing: project manager: No , yeah , th th the user requirements of the the The new project requirements told us not to user interface: It's n Yeah . Maybe like rewind and wind , marketing: project manager: or n what d what do you guys think ? industrial designer: But you can put them under the same button . project manager: But what do you think ? marketing: So t project manager: Do th should we implement features that   or functions that to control other devices ? user interface: No . project manager: No , you don't think so ? marketing: user interface: No , new requirements say no . project manager: maybe there there there is something th m most of the time these functions don't support the particular device as well as their their own remote control . user interface: Yeah , but project manager: You know , a lot of D_V_D_ players have some tricky settings with industrial designer: Yes , but we user interface: I i if it's too simple  th they won't use the remote control , they use their own th th with lot more functions . That's that's wha marketing: But but for for example , V_C_R_ , that's better example in this case . I think on a remote control for television you don't need to be able to programme  the V_C_R_ to start recording at three P_M_ or whatever , project manager: No no , you don't No no , you don't need it . project manager: Okay , but we have to think  w we have to think D_V_D_ I th  , I guess , marketing: Yeah , I know , but  project manager: so  but  from my experience it's kinda a lot of D_V_D_ players , you know , like forwarding , goes differently . project manager: Maybe if we just leave the D_V_D_ functional m  Well , I was thinking about putting it in , but concerning the project requirements and what you just said , I think we m should focus on the T_V_ then . user interface: Yeah , but just keep it simple and look more at th project manager: And  and it's just an  a complimentary remote and not a universal one . It's just a s it it should be something that is like a gadget on your coffee table , industrial designer: Yes , but there are there are project manager: and it's just for when you you you jump on the couch , you pick up the the the nice remote , the simple one , just to put on the television , nothing more . project manager: but what televis industrial designer: But how wi how will you be able to handle a whole market ? There are  a dozen of  dozens of of remote controls that have project manager: Yeah , we we'll make w this one trendy . project manager: Well , we we will come to that , but ju first on the on the functions . If you have a  a page which consists of more pages , and you are not a very quick reader , project manager: Oh , okay . marketing: then I think it's very irritating if the next page shows up , but project manager: Yeah , but  I think that becomes too difficult , it's not a very common function and people will have to read up on their remote then . project manager: Yeah , yeah , but maybe you s yeah yeah , maybe y you do , but I've never heard of it in the first place . And user interface: Will you look marketing: industrial designer: project manager: we have to well t yeah , and t and teletext is becoming outdated . user interface: Yeah , I  , it's Sunday I always use it for the  yeah , for the soccer  project manager: Yeah , but do you like to have a such a s stop button ? Or do you think it  I think it's a kind of   very rare and special function . user interface: Well ,  when you   when you look  for example  , a couple of weeks ago I looked at the for the flights , and there are a lot of flights in one page , so if if th project manager: Yeah . Okay , it goes Yeah , but that's kind of stuff we should do on the internet right now . industrial designer: Yes , but you could put user interface: Yeah , but industrial designer: on the z on the zap buttons you can put it to  to  access all the same pages . project manager: Well yeah  , industrial designer: If you have seven pages , you can go up and down . project manager: lots of new televisions can store pages , you know , and then you can just skip manually through them using industrial designer: Yes . we also meet the other thin y you sh you just re we have to choose for the the simple design , I guess .  , well , what functions do we have to decide on ? Or do we  I dunno if we have t stif specifically name all the functions we n we want . marketing: I think the plus and the minus button should be  quite present , project manager: Th that's that's that's considered to be trendy also . project manager: Or maybe you should place them on a  , in a special way ? user interface: I don't know . project manager: Yeah , something or  somethin special way to to zap through the it has to s it has to be yeah , and quick . project manager: Yeah , and it the buttons should make it  possible to to zap through your channels in a rapid at a rapid pace . project manager: Oh , what should we decide on then ? I think in a in a case of this simple remote control , the technical aspects which  weren't worked out already , but it w shouldn't be a problem then . user interface: Maybe  project manager: No , okay , but we don't have to  , when we don't want to  control other devices , I think it makes it even more simple . project manager: I think that we should use  d user interface: Yeah ? marketing: I think double A_ . project manager: th the most  Well , it has to be simple , and I wi user interface: Yeah . How much time do we ha we have left  ? M m m more than thirty minutes ? marketing: I think about twenty minutes . But that's that's Do you  have you have you think about tha thought about that ? How we can what the extra touch can be . Do you suggest design or the shape or some gadget f f kind of feature or industrial designer: Maybe th m project manager: Well , it was something about how we lose them . Maybe it should be a remote control when you you clap you hands it makes some noise or some gadget kind of thing . marketing: I think that's n that's more for a for an age range or  ten to twelve or whatever . user interface: industrial designer: project manager: Nah ,  a lot of people like to have such kind kind of kind of gay kind of things . It w it w should be like a birthday present or something that you give someone , and it is i has something nice . project manager: Or maybe it w should have a big  light that can flash or something on it , user interface: Yeah . I think it's very impor because we're gonna make such a basic remote control , we have to do something to make it special . marketing: Ye I think the can opener i is a brilliant idea actually , because television and beer is not a rare combination . But and I think it's gonna be  very  it has to be sturdy or something , so maybe with with bouncing pads so that you can just throw it on the floor or something . project manager: you know y not s people , when they buy it , they have to think , well this one lasts for a long time . project manager: So maybe  that's i I think that's when  when we decide on these type of functions , know , basic functions ,  it's very important to find something like this . project manager: also for you maybe , when t you it's very nice when you can be entra when you can be trendy , and and  and al as in a friend use friendly as well , you know . project manager: So big buttons , flashy design , and maybe some kind of gadget kind of thing . project manager: Yeah , or just different colours would be  I don't know if people also wanna spend more money on fronts for their  remote control . project manager: It could be be Yeah , you never know , but user interface: Why not ? marketing: Yeah . If you want it to be something , you know , it's ha doesn't have much functions marketing: project manager: want to be you don't want to get it l make it marketing: Yes , it it it should be f be visible nearly anywhere in the room . Yeah , you have to put it on its So it's like a vase or  something you put on a table . project manager: Yeah yeah , but yeah , but you also can put it somewhere near the window in marketing: If you do that , but I don't know if that's possible within the production cost of twelve and a half Euros . user interface: project manager: I I don't marketing: I in in the base we could like make  a button , and if you push it , the remote control itself s makes noise . marketing: That's probably stupid , but  as I found here  , fifty percent , was it fifty ? industrial designer: But that's that's fun for the first time , and then the second marketing:  fifty percent fifty percent often loses remote control . project manager: Yeah , but but when you when it gets lost , how can you press the button to make it marketing: No  , of the base the the the the the the the thing you put it in . marketing: If an a button in in that  user interface: project manager: And then also you don't even need batteries , because you can make it  chargeable . project manager: Yeah , that w yeah , but yeah , the pro No , well I think that it might be t p Well , nee but we don't Yeah . project manager: Maybe you , but we don't know much about production cost , but when you you can imagine that when you spend twenty five Euros on a remote control and it's a basic remote control , then the then the money there must be money to spend on that kind of st you know , rechargeable units . Aye ? project manager: Yeah , but we would d ma we'd do it in Taiwan and So , it's not gonna be that expen user interface: Production . project manager: S some kind of be I've never seen that before , and you make it   be  , you see it with  the mo the mouses nowadays . industrial designer: Yes , but is that handy ? project manager: Well , I well it's really ch you can recharge it , so you ha never have the battery problem . user interface: It's it's it's it's project manager: And  you can always find your remote control up user interface: it's not the purpose to be handy , it's industrial designer: But but remote controls remote controls nowadays can can last  two years , three years , with with t two batteries . Well , maybe yeah , you could when that's when it's too costly , you could probably skip the recharger , industrial designer: And then you project manager: but you will you do need  also an  , also you would need a battery in the the base unit as well , you know . Or marketing: Well y you you could connect that to two hundred to twenty volts , of course . project manager: Yeah , but then it's very easy to make it also a rechargeab I don't think that is gonna cost much to make it also a recharge function in it . marketing: On the other hand , if you don't do it , we can also make a nice bay .  , it looks trendy and still still put a bleep function in it , project manager: Yeah . marketing: but  I think the bay is definitely  project manager: I think it's a good idea . And make it , you know , we we  Well , we  it's it isn't a t a most  costly  remote control . We just put some simple button in , make it big and sturdy , nothing more , and just make s sure there's some noise that it can make , or probably some kind of cheap light thing around it or that it  that it lights up , marketing: Sure , why not . And if you put it away , I think it's  w we have to we  that's  marketing: Yeah . And for twenty five Euros people want something remote c special from your mote control , marketing: Yeah . project manager: and we can't deliver that in r with  regards to the functions , user interface: Yeah . project manager: because we aren't gonna put marketing: With eye candy , ear candy , whatever . And then  when make it , you know , nice looking shape and this and then you also you got the stand-up thing . project manager: Oh , if it let's well , we will see what's possible concerning the the costs , and if it's possible we'll do that . project manager: And the first thing we the most likeable thing to to n to skip is then probably the recharge function or something . And and what people just think about , well , I'll never have to buy any r batteries again , so y b because it's very annoying when your battery is empty . And you know then when you haven't batteries around , and probably for two weeks , your remo I've experienced that that marketing: Most televisions break down before the battery pack is empty , so yes . Well , we will we will I think we'll work that out , zapping , numbers on it , bi user interface: Or just give a beep when the battery's out or  down . user interface: project manager: 'cause as long as it stays as it ke keeps working , you're not very motivated to do something about it . project manager: You don't want to have ever have those problems , and you won't have if if you have the rechargeable . And you don't have to use the unit , you can also put it on the side if people don't like it . project manager: Yeah , but it w  , if if they pay for it because they think , oh , that's a great idea , I'm gonna use it . And when it , you know , when time goes by and they think , well , I'll never put him in the recharger , I think last long enough , then they put it on side and they can use it now and then . Then when they look get m I I I know for sure that everybody who buys this remote control , within a couple of months of they will be in the situation that they they're seeking for the remote control , they wanna see something quick and  just push the button and th  , user interface: Yeah . project manager: Yeah , I've never it's so simple , but I've never seen it . project manager: Okay now , well , how much time have we got left ? These clocks aren't  synched . marketing: project manager: Oh , now I've put  well , it is twenty p user interface: Yeah , I'll project manager: Okay , so we have ten minutes or something ? marketing: Something like that , yeah . project manager: Oh okay , I'll make sure I'll I had some problems with  the digitising the the first minutes , the the s the next minutes won't be a problem , but I'll try to make sure the first one will be in the folder too , but maybe it won't work , but you'll see . user interface: Can you make an   a part of f folder for the minutes maybe ? project manager: . Yeah , because  I I d I did  the first minutes I did were were were a bit scratchy , you know . Then I did a s second one with a nicer layout , which I could  , know , use for the other ones well , but  I d think  I forgot to do put done under the first one , and when you go write a second  it's get it's not working when you try to write second  paper or something . project manager: And then you you had to overwrite it or someth I don't know . Has anyone got  a little bit detailed ideas about the shape ? user interface: Do you get an idea of the shape ? marketing: I don't , for one . user interface: A little bit bigger , yeah but marketing: The shape is nice , it's  something different , and we want we want that . project manager: Well , I I I have to say , I have this  can opening remote control in my head most of all , marketing: Yeah . user interface: project manager: or I think some maybe we should no , that will be too costly . project manager: We shou we could also , that was a would also be an idea , but I don't think it I don't know if it exists already , you should like make Alessi or something design it . But that's gonna then you c then you don't marketing: Yeah , but twelve and a half Euros ?  project manager: Yeah , but then you don't have t yeah it that's not something i that's in the production cost a one it's a one time , you know s was it's a single cost . project manager: Yeah , m but but then you can nah , I don't thin I think that it would be more expensive , because I've bought the Alessi stuff more often and even small pencil holders or something are more expensive . marketing: Yes , volume and programme should be there I guess , because you hands wi  y your hands will be in the smaller part . project manager: And and lights ? How we're g well , maybe  s a ring of no , no , you have to Maybe on the side of it . project manager: Yeah , but I also meant the the blinking li w you know , the ones that also blink when you try to   locate your remote . And then you have a strip of  lights or something user interface: Yeah , exactly , and then there is yeah . industrial designer: marketing: Half and hour ? user interface: Okay , five  marketing: I thought our next  next individual round was half an hour