VALERIANI
STAND-UP OPEN:

NBC Nightly News

May 15, 1978

THE STATE DEPARTMENT SAID ITS IMMEDIATE CONCERN WAS
THE SAFETY OF ABOUT A HUNDRED AMERICAN CITIZENS IN THE
COMBAT AREA, AND A WORKING GROUP HAS BEEN SET UP HERE TO
WATCH THE SITUATION IN CASE THOSE AMERICANS HAVE TO
BE EVACUATED.

A SPOKESMAN HERE ALSO EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT
ZAIRE'S TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY.

FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE HENRY KISSINGER WENT
MUCH FURTHER IN EXPRESSING CONCERN. HE SAID IN AN
INTERVIEW THAT IF THE REPORTS OF CUBAN INVOLVEMENT IN
ZAIRE ARE TRUE, THEN IT'S TIME FOR THE UNITED STATES
TO DRAW THE LINE WITH THE CUBANS AND RUSSIANS IN
AFRICA.

Page one

VERBATIM OF VALERIANI/KISSINGER INTERVIEW,

Nightly News, 15 May 1978:

Kissinger:

If we draw the line we must hold the Soviet Union
responsible. Ultimately they place the Cubans there.
They supply the equipment, they finance it. And they
are responsible for the consequences whether or not
they claim they knew about it in advance. A few
weeks ago I said that negotiations with the Soviet
Union will not be able to survive further adventures
by the Cubans in Africa. I think the Soviet Union
must be told that it has to choose between negotiations
with us, or an imperial policy in Africa. It _cannot_
have both.

VALERIANI: When you say choose between the negotiations, would you include in that, negotiations on limiting strategic weapons?

KISSINGER: Up to this point I have agreed with the
Administration that SALT should not be linked, with
what has happened so far. But in the light of what
has happened recently in Afghanistan where the
Communists have taken over, what now appears to be
occuring in Zaire -- I would say that we have to re-
quest that the military operations stop, that the troops
withdraw, and if this does not occur, I think we ought
to review the whole negotiation...all of our negotia-
tions with the Soviets.

END

VALERIANI

STAND-UP CLOSE,

NBC NIGHTLY NEWS

May 15, 1978

UP TO NOW, KISSINGER HAS ALWAYS MAINTAINED THAT THE WEAPONS WERE TOO IMPORTANT TO BE LINKED TO OTHER MATTERS, BUT HE'S CHANGED THAT POSITION BECAUSE HE THINKS THE RUSSIANS ARE NOW TRYING TO DEMONSTRATE TO OTHER COUNTRIES, THAT DEPENDING ON THE UNITED STATES FOR THEIR SECURITY IS SUICIDAL. RV, NBC NEWS, AT THE S.D.

NBC NIGHTLY NEWS

Monday, May 15, 1978

Dr. Kissinger: If we draw the line, we must hold the Soviet Union responsible. Ultimately, they placed the Cubans there. They supply the equipment, they finance it, and they are responsible for the consequences -- whether or not they claim that they knew about it in advance. A few weeks ago, I said that negotiations with the Soviet Union will not be able to survive further adventures by the Cubans in Africa. I think the Soviet Union must be told that it has to choose between negotiations with us, or an imperial policy in Africa. It cannot have both.

Richard Valeriani: When you say "choose between the negotiations" would you include in that negotiations on limiting strategic weapons?

Dr. Kissinger: Up to this point, I have agreed with the Administration that SALT cannot ... should not be linked with what has happened so far. But, in the light of what has happened recently in Afghanistan where the Communists have taken over, and what now appears to be occurring in Zaire, I would say that we have to request that the military operations stop, that the troops withdraw, and, if this does not occur, I think we ought to review the whole negotiations, all of our negotiations with the Soviets.

INTERVIEW BETWEEN HENRY A. KISSINGER AND RICHARD VALERIANI,
NBC NEWS, HELD ON MAY 15, 1978

Q: The last time Zaire was invaded from outside its borders, the U.S. seemed to turn its back on Zaire. Do you think the U.S. should help Zaire in some way?

A: First of all it's important to understand what is going on here. An invasion like this could not take place without logistics support, communication support, training and supplies from Angola and, therefore, from Cuba. It is an attack on the territorial integrity of Zaire - a country that we helped bring into being and that we defended against a Soviet attempt to intervene in the early 1960's -and it is bound to undermine the Government of Zaire. After a year of Cuban intervention in Africa - in Angola and now in Ethiopia, now again in Zaire - I think the U.S. must draw the line.

Q: And once you've drawn the line, what do you do? How do you do that?

A: If we draw the line, we must hold the Soviet Union responsible. Ultimately, they placed the Cubans there. They supply the equipment, they finance it, and they are responsible for the consequences - whether or not they claim that they knew about it in advance. A few weeks ago, I said that negotiations with the Soviet Union will not be able to survive further adventures by the Cubans in Africa.

(c)

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(continued) I think the Soviet Union must be told
that it has to choose between negotiations with us,
or an imperial policy in Africa. It cannot have both.

Q: When you say "choose between the negotiations" would you
include in that negotiations on limiting strategic
weapons?

A: Up to this point, I have agreed with the Administration
that SALT cannot...should not be linked with what has
happened so far. But, in the light of what has happened
recently in Afghanistan where the Communists have taken
over, what now appears to be occurring in Zaire... I would
say that we have to request that the military operations
stop, that the troops withdraw, and, if this does not occur,
I think we ought to review the whole negotiations. All of our
negotiations with the Soviets.

Q: As a matter of fact you are saying ... if they don't do
this series of measures, they will be put on notice that
the SALT negotiations may end. Without an agreement.

A: I would think it is incompatible with any definition
of détente, that these military adventures in Africa
that have been going on now for three years continue
uninterruptedly. And I would make the Soviet Union

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choose between negotiations for détente, or Cuban
proxy troops in Africa.

Q: Why, Dr. Kissinger, do you think Africa is so important?
How are the American national interests involved in all
of this?

A: The American national interest is first of all involved
when a country of 8 million in the Caribbean can send
40 thousand troops a distance of 8,000 miles and conduct
a military policy in a continent as rich in resources
and of such profound concern to us and our allies. Secondly,
it is a demonstration of American impotence which will have
the profoundest consequences in the Middle East, in Europe,
and in other threatened areas. We have already paid an
enormous price in Iran, in Saudi Arabia, and in other parts
of the Middle East. All we should ask for is for an end
to military adventures. Nobody will believe that the U.S.
can protect friendly countries if thousands of Cubans can
run all over Africa and incite wars all over Africa ...
with Soviet support ... without any reaction by the U.S.
Of course, I would hope that these ... that our steps
not be taken lightly. Of course, we have to make sure
that the facts are as they are reported before we do
these steps.

Q: In effect you are saying, if they choose not to end

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Cuban military adventures in Africa, this would signal
a return to the cold war?

A: I would say, that if these reports are correct, as they appear to be, and if substantial numbers of forces from Angola have now invaded Zaire and taken this town, that then this would indicate a geo-political aim by the Soviet Union that is incompatible with any definition of détente, and we should draw the consequences from that.

Q: How about the Administration's Africa policy in general?
In particular towards Rhodesia? Do you feel that the
Administration is pursuing the right line on Rhodesia
now?

A: I agree that we should work for Majority Rule in Rhodesia, and I worked in the same direction when I was in office.
I believe, however, that we have to make clear in Rhodesia as well as elsewhere that this cannot be achieved with Cuban forces, / and that those forces who depend on the Soviet Union and on the Cubans should not be able to achieve their objective by blackmailing us with the threat of Soviet intervention or Cuban intervention. It is for this reason that I am doubtful about an all out opposition to this so-called internal solution that has been negotiated.
I think it is a big step forward towards majority rule, and it should be used as a means for those that are on the outside

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like Nkomo to be able to negotiate their way into
a share of the power.

Q: Just to be fair on the points you made. You suggest that we at this point should draw the line in Africa on Cuban military ventures in effect --- backed by the Russians, and let the Russians know that if this sort of thing continues, then we will review our entire negotiating policy towards them, including the possibility of cutting off negotiations on Strategic Arms without an agreement?

A: If military - Cuban military operations - in Africa continue and if war operations supported by the Cubans or encouraged by the Cubans continue, then I think we face a challenge that is incompatible with détente, and under those conditions we should review our negotiations.

And I hope you will also make clear that I said I would first wish to make sure that all these reports are correct.

Q: Thank you.