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agricultural products and whether you see the OPEC
countries as a potentially significant market for
America's agricultural exports.

SECRETARY KISSINGER: Well, as I pointed out,
we are talking about a long-term agreement with the
Soviet Union.

Secondly, we have an obligation -- which is not
formalized but which is very real -- for long-term supplies
to Japan.

In addition, we are encouraging the export of
agricultural commodities, as we have an obligation to
do since we have urged our farmers to produce at maximum
capacity.

Over a period of years, we think that the
markets in the OPEC countries can increase. But, of
course, those with the largest surpluses also have
relatively small populations, so that there is a limit to
what can be done.

We think that over the next years the markets
for American agricultural products will be good. And, in
fact, our major difficulty will be whether we can meet the

29

world demand rather than whether we can sell our
agricultural products.

GOVERNOR MANDEL: Governor Holshouser.

GOVERNOR HOLSHOUSER: Mr. Secretary, could
you give us any comment on the status of negotiations about
the Americans in Ethiopia over the weekend?

SECRETARY KISSINGER: When Americans are captured,
we are always in great difficulty because we do not
want to get into a position where we encourage terrorists
to capture Americans in order to get negotiations started
for their aim. So our general position has been -- and
it is heart-breaking in individual cases, always heart-
breaking -- our general position has been that we will
not, as a Government, negotiate for the release of
Americans that have been captured.

Now, in this particular case, the only demands
that have been made on us have come through totally
unauthenticated sources; so we haven't any decision
to make. We have heard radio broadcasts on Beirut
radio of what the demands are, but they have not been
tied to anything that we can do or by anybody that we can deal
with. But our general position has been that we will not

30

negotiate, as a Government, with kidnappers of Americans
because there are so many Americans in so many parts
of the world -- tourists, newsmen, not only officials
-- that it would be impossible to protect them all
unless the kidnappers can gain no benefit from it.

GOVERNOR MANDEL: Governor Askew?

GOVERNOR ASKEW: Mr. Kissinger, as you know,
we have had a difference -- the United States with the
Bahamas -- on the question of the taking of the spiny
lobster and the jurisdiction. We have a substantial number
of fishermen in south Florida dependent upon this.

The State Department conducted the negotiations,
which did not prove successful, with the Bahamian Government.
And it's my understanding that efforts are being made to try
to arbitrate through international means the possible
phasing out, if we can't get some additional understanding
with the Bahamian Government, to permit us, on a reciprocal
basis, to fish for these lobster.

I just wonder if you have any comment, any
hope that we might have that there's anything further that
the State Department might be able to do to ensure access

31

of these traditional grounds with some cooperative agreement
between the Bahamian Government and the United States?

SECRETARY KISSINGER: Well, since I am not
running for office in Florida, I have
to tell you that until fairly recently -- about two
months ago, I think -- I never even heard there was such
an animal as the spiny lobster (laughter). But I have
in the meantime. And what we are going to
try to do is to see--in the context of the negotiations
on the spiny lobster, the Government of the Bahamas
has used against us certain legal principles which we have
applied with respect to the Maine lobster, so that we did not
have a very brilliant negotiating position. (Laughter)

And what we are trying to do right now is to see
whether we can find a context for that negotiation that
broadens the framework somewhat beyond the immediate issue
of the lobster, within which perhaps some solution can
be found.

GOVERNOR ASKEW: Just one other question --
and that is: On the question of South America -- again,
with the proximity of Florida, in particular -- and the
southeastern United States, where you have these Governors

32

represented -- what, really, is the posture of
any particular position in regard generally to Latin
America to the United States?

SECRETARY KISSINGER: Latin America is
the part of the world with which we have the
most, the longest, uninterrupted relationship. And it is
the part of the world in which the relationship between
industrial countries and developing countries
is being conducted among people of at least comparable
background and similar aspirations. Therefore, we
have always believed that our relationships in the Western
Hemisphere are very important to our relationships
to the rest of the world.

Inevitably, in many Latin American countries,
there is a temptation to define their identity through opposition
to the United States. And, therefore, the rhetoric of
many Latin American countries vis-a-vis the United States
tends to be on occasion belligerent.

Still, we believe that we can make progress in
developing a cooperative relationship. We have started what
is called "the new dialogue" with the countries of the
Western Hemisphere. And though it has had its ups and downs,

33

due to many causes, we believe that, on the whole, it is
progressing. And we are prepared to make a major
effort to improve our relationship with the Western
Hemisphere on the basis of reciprocity.

GOVERNOR MANDEL: Two other Governors have
indicated they'd like to ask questions, and at the
conclusion of those two questions we're going to have to ter-
minate this part of the program. I think the Secretary has
been unusually generous of his time and we don't want to
impose on him.

Governor Edwards of South Carolina and Governor
Busbee have indicated a desire to ask questions. And
after those two we'll have to conclude this part of the
program.

Governor Edwards.

GOVERNOR EDWARDS: Mr. Secretary, I understand
the United States paid most of the cost for opening the
Suez Canal. I may be mistaken, but this is what I've been
told. What are the advantages to opening the Suez Canal?
It seems to me that it gives access to that great modern
Soviet Fleet through the Dardenelles into the Mediterranean
and down into the Indian Ocean, where our shipping lanes

34

are so vital to keep our energy supplies open for the
industrial world.

Would you comment on that, please?

SECRETARY KISSINGER: As long as you are talking about the Soviet Navy, I have to say I have seen statements that in 1973 the United States was affected in the conduct of the Middle East crisis by its fear of the Soviet Navy. This may have been true of our Navy; it wasn't true of our Government. (Laughter.) We all suffered from the illusion that our Navy was far superior to the Soviet Navy, and we conducted ourselves accordingly. (Laughter.) We may have been wrong, but we acted as if we were superior. (Laughter) We believed it, too.

Now, as far as opening of the Suez Canal is concerned, it is clear that opening of the Suez Canal makes it easier for the Soviets to move ships from the Mediterranean into the Indian Ocean. Of course, there is no law that prohibits the American Navy to follow any Soviet ship into the Indian Ocean through the Suez Canal if we want to. But the major argument for opening the Suez Canal was, first of all, of course, the desire of Egypt to do it; and,

35

secondly, because of the general assessment that
it would contribute to the stabilization of the Middle
East by creating additional inhibitions against the opening
of hostilities. And, therefore, balancing the advantages
of peace in the Middle East against the
strategic disadvantage of permitting -- shortening the
Soviet travel time -- it was decided to go ahead with it,
especially since it was really substantially out of our
control.

Whether we, in fact, paid the greatest part
of this, I would have to look into this. I know we paid
something for it. I know other countries also did. But
I'd have to check whether it is, in fact, true that we paid
the largest part of it.

GOVERNOR MANDEL: Governor Busbee of Georgia.

GOVERNOR BUSBEE: Mr. Secretary, this might be
a good one to conclude on.

You've heard a lot of interest by the Governors in
international affairs. Governor Wallace just
alluded to the involvement we're all engaged in, in
economic trade missions, investment and so forth
with other countries, and our dealings with them. We found it

(LQ)

36

necessary that we be provided relevant information
on the interpretation of State Department policy
in these various areas -- and, also, the necessity
for arranging for the visits of our economic missions
to other countries. And we have just passed, unanimously,
at the Southern Governors' Conference, a formal request
to you that we be provided a State Department Regional
Representative in the Southeastern area on a pilot basis
to see how it works. And we've had a lot of discussion
on bureaucracy and our position with bureaucracy,
but I think that the State Department is the only Department
that's not represented on a regional basis; we need you,
we want you, and we would just like some response in our
request to you that we try this.

SECRETARY KISSINGER: Well, I saw that. I read
the resolution, and I welcome it.

I have to look into what the bureaucratic aspects
are of appointing a regional representative. And given
the way the State Department operates, it will take at
least ten years. (Laughter.)

GOVERNOR BUSBEE: Thank you.

37

I don't think this is a fatal response. I brought you down to Georgia and fed you my grits -- and I thought you would give a more favorable answer.

(Laughter.)

SECRETARY KISSINGER: Quite seriously, I am very sympathetic to the resolution. And we will either appoint a regional representative or we will establish some liaison with the Southern Governors' Conference so that we can meet the request of this resolution.

We welcome the resolution and we will work with it to realize its objectives.

I just want to look into the best method to do it, because the first time I saw it was last night and I could not talk to any of my associates about how to implement it.

GOVERNOR MANDEL: Governor Holshouser just can't restrain himself. Go ahead.

GOVERNOR HOLSHouser: Marvin, I think we ought to assure the Secretary though that we don't intend this as any encouragement for some of those people in Washington who already think the South is a foreign country anyway.

(Laughter.)