Hanoi, November 1, 1976

President of the Republic of Vietnam

Minister of Foreign Affairs

TELCON

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

By: KHL, NASA Date: 5/12/76

TELCONE

Senator McIntyre/Kissinger

12:52 p.m. - 8/2/72

K: Hello.

M: Hi.

K: Senator, how are you?

M: Good.

K: I'm sorry to bother you and I don't even know if my information is correct. I wanted to call you about these End-the-War amendments that I understand are coming up again this afternoon and I wanted to give you my attitude from the entire foreign policy end. You know I'm no judge of whatever domestic pressures anybody may be under.

M: Sure.

K: From my point of view I can only say that any of them other than say the Aiken one for example which more or less endorses what the President's plan is, may do damage. They can't do any good because they are really proposed in ignorance of what is the actual state of the negotiations. They must give the North Vietnamese the impression that there is some confusion or tension or something they can play between and it's at this moment when we are negotiating, that it's a particularly delicate period for us. Now I can't tell you in good conscience and I don't want to mislead you - I'm not saying that we will succeed with our peace amendments nor am I saying we will fail with these amendments. I don't think I can in good conscience make such an absolute statement. I can just tell you the nuances from where I sit and how it looks to me so that I think when it all winds up is that the Aiken amendment of those that I've seen is still the one that would fit in best with our diplomacy.

M: How does it look to you?

K: Well, Senator, the difficulty is this: The North Vietnamese are almost psychopathic about our saying anything. I think there's a chance, but no certainty. Even that I would prefer if you didn't repeat.

M: Oh, no, I've forgotten it already. I was just kind of hopeful that I could get through the other day that it just seemed to me to be kind of futile for us to be doing something over here if there were some negotiations that were...

Re: [subject to change] in the open office
is the case, but not for publication
Proprietary and confidential

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12908, Sept. 3.6

By: K.M.L. NAFU, Date: 5/13/04

2

K: That's what bothers me - if there were no negotiations. We of course
in all candor we would oppose it anyway but I probably wouldn't be
calling you and I don't think I've called you very often if ever.

M: No, no.

K: It just is a helluva rough time - you know the day after I've talked
to them - while these things are still going and with the best intentions
in the world it's just awfully tough to integrate these various resolutions
because they're bound to confuse the issue.

M: Good, I'm glad you called me.

K: OK, and I'll understand what you'll have to do.

M: You bet.

The President's Office in the Executive Office Building, Washington, D.C.

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

TELCOM

Casper Weinberger/Kissinger

3:09 p.m. 8/2/72

NASA Data 5/12/72

K: Hello.

W: Henry, this is Cap.

K: Cap, how are you?

W: Fine, I called you this morning in great anguish over Mel's statement. Since then he's put out another one which is even worse on this spending ceiling thing. I guestt John has talked to you, I don't know, but it is a pretty wild situation and I thought we ought to try to get together with the President or at least get something going pretty soon so that that can be called back. There are a number of reasons. I have put in a memo for the President which I haven't sent in yet with a copy to you and the General. The gist of that is that is it sort of confirms a lot of people's beliefs that this operation is completely independent of the President and calls into question the sincerity of the President's motives in making this request if he allows a Cabinet officer to go or do this furthermore

K: I'm not through. I frankly tell you that I don't believe that the ceiling was the wisest thing we've every done.

W: Well

K: Because we can't think the Defense budget

W: You wouldn't have to and it - there wouldn't be any need to touch

K: But secondly, having said this.

W: Yeah.

K: Even if the President put out a ceiling of $225 billion, it's not for a Cabinet member to his President.

W: Not in public after it's done and it should be understood that nothing in that ceiling requires nor would there be any reduction at this point in the Defense budget. There's no need for it and so on all counts it was very wrong. I just wondered if we shouldn't get some kind of public repudiation pretty soon if it's not getting harder and harder for him to say he's misquoted when he starts putting out statements.

K: Well why don't we get him to pull back? Rather than have the President--

The President's Office in the open life
of the Senate and of the Executive Yuan
of China

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: KML NASA Date: 5/12/04

W: He's before the Foreign Affairs Committee today apparently.

K: Well, the son of a bitch called me this morning and just to show you how devious he is he said should I--he pulled back from his views on the Defense Budget. I said absolutely not.

W: Well, no

K: I was embarrassed. I didn't know he made the other statement.

W: I know, yeah.

K: So the bastard is probably going to say now that I told him he could go ahead and make these statements.

W: **SANITIZED**

But the other thing he's done of course and you seen this is this memo he's put into the President saying that because of the ceiling request he's now going to have to dismantle entire operation over there bring the home and everything else and that's totally and completely wrong but its designed to ____ anybody who reads it. It just seems to me we should get some public withdrawal. But he's making statements to committees now that are

K: Let me get him this afternoon and see if I can quiet him down.

W: Well I ah

K: If we can get him to pull back it's better than if the President slaps him around.

W: Well, I agree but I don't know quite how he can worm himself out of that other to say he's really dramatizing

K: If he really wants to do it, he'll worm his way out of it.

W: But he should do it fast.

K: Let me call him.

W: Because he's destroying any ability we have to get the ceiling. OK. Thank you.

K: And I'll have breakfast with you next Monday.

W: Yes, I'd like to talk to you a little bit before that so we can be sure

Receptionist's Office Report to
the Secretary of State
Operations Staff

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 32530, Sept. 3.6

TELCOM
Ehrlichman/Kissinger

4:09 p.m. - 8/2/72

K: Hello.

E: Henry, this is John Ehrlichman. Laird's in the paper again this afternoon and Ziegler is beginning to get a lot of questions.

K: Let me call Laird first to see whether I can get him to pull back.

E: I think at the very least Ziegler's got to repudiate him in order to preserve our political position. Have you seen the article this afternoon?

K: Is it the one you sent me, the little clip?

E: Yes, I had your girl clip one.

K: Yeh, I saw it.

E: OK, that's front page.

K: Why wouldn't it be better to get Laird to pull back?

E: It'd be fine if he'll do it before the p.m. television.

K: Let me call him this minute.

E: OK.

TELCONE

Secretary Laird/Kissinger

4:10 p.m. 8/2/72

H. O. McPherson, a former U. S. Air Force officer, has been named a target of aclassified attack.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.M. V

NASA Date: 5/12/72

K: Hello.

L: Henry?

K: Mel, how are you?

L: Good.

K: Mel, my ~~repeated~~ people here are spinning about your--what they
construe are your constant attacks on the spending ceiling.

L: I wish they'd read the transcripts, Henry.

K: Now, what they--what I've kept them from doing frankly is to get
a ______ to repudiate you.

L: Well why don't they read what I say though.

K: Is there any chance for you to make clear just what the hell you are
saying?

L: Well, all they need to do is just read what I have said and read the
whole transcript. They've got copies of it over there. I just don't
want it applied to the military assistance program and to the defense
bill entirely. I made that clear each time.

K: Jesus. Ah

L: Have you got a copy of it over there?

K: No I don't have your transcripts. I don't know--we have no objection
to your saying ah that the ceiling should not affect the defense program
and simply taking out at other programs.

L: That's all I ~~ask~~ say.

K: Well is there some way--could you--do you mind if Ziegler says
that that's all you are saying?

L: No. No, he can say that. All he needs to do is read my transcript.
He's got a copy of it over there.

K: All right, well I--

L: I'll have Dan get another copy of it over to him. Just a minute.
I'm sure that they've got it. It's over there, Henry.

H. W. REED, CHIEF, DIV. OF TECHNICAL TRAINING

Sergeant Major

By: J.M.L. NASA Date: 5/12/04

K: OK. Now is it--

L: And if you'll read that transcript you'll see what exactly I said now.

K: Now, would you mind if Ziegler said that as we understand what you said, you support the ceiling as long as it does not lead to a cut in the Defense Budget?

L: As long as it doesn't apply to the last two bills. The other bills have all been acted upon and if it only applies to the last two bills I think it discriminates against national security. But Congress can apply it retroactively to the other programs. Now that's all in that transcript.

K: Yeah. OK. Let me take a look at your transcript. Now, one other thing. You told me you ~~was~~ would send me some recommendations as a replacement for Haig. Could I have those as quickly as possible?

L: Pardon, Pardon, pardon, Henry, I didn't hear you.

K: You remember you told me you would send me some recommendations as a replacement for Haig?

L: Yeah. We're getting those together for you now.

K: Could I get those as quickly as possible?

L: I'll get them to you ~~as~~ by the end of the week.

K: I'd appreciate it.

L: I thought I'd kind of look over each of these jackets though and I haven't had a chance to do it that's my problem.

K: If you could let me have them by the end of the week.

L: Fine and I think Al might like to look over the jackets, too.

K: Of course.

L: And we'll get on that right away and but I wanted to personally look at them myself. You have that transcript in answer to the question. I can understand that UPI ~~is~~ story would make them upset but I think they've got to look at the transcript and what I have said is exactly what you say that Ziegler wants to say.

K: OK. Well I've kept everybody quiet.

TELCORN

Mr. Hedland, President of Standard Oil/Kissinger

5:41 p.m. 8/2/72

K: Hello.

H: Hello.

K: Mr. Hedland?

H: Yes.

K: I don't know how much you know about my conversations with Mr. Jamieson.

H: I am generally informed about them, Dr. Kissinger. That is I know that Emir Saud has been in Washington and has been talking to a number of our top government people and I know about your discussions about Mr. Connally.

K: Yeah, all right.

H: And about Mr. Jamieson's telephone conversation with you. Just before he went off to Canada.

K: Right.

H: During which some questions came up.

K: Right. Now let me bring you up to date. I saw Emir Saud or whatever his name is today and I told him that we had three objections. One, is the question of participation; second the question of net book values; third the level of what is fair compensation. He made the following points to me. He said, one, the can't give on the issue of participation and they think you have already agreed to that.

H: That is true Dr. Kissinger. We have accepted the principle of 20% participation.

K: Right.

H: Subject to five or six qualifications one of which was the fair compensation.

K: All Right. Now second, he said they are willing to ______ the ground of net book value I mean to give up the ______ net book value if that's such a dangerous precedent.

H: __________ Um Hum.

By: KHC W. NASH Date: 5/12/04

By: K.L. V. NAFIA, Date: 5/12/04 - 2 -

K: Thirdly, they said they think the financial offer is fair but that he would let me make to him on an informal basis what might be considered a fair offer. Now I don't know what that is because.

H: He said our offer is fair?

K: That he thought it is fair. They said Their offer to you is to compensation.

H: Um hum.

K: But he said they are willing to negotiate it and he said on a personal basis I could pass on to him a figure that is considered fair in America. Now I don't know whether you want to give me such a figure. Don't do it on the phone now.

H: No. In other words he says that of course his offer is net book value. He's taking the position that that is a fair one.

K: No, no. Their offer his point is that they are willing give up the phrase net book value. Second they are willing at least to negotiate the figure that they've offered. But to help him arrive at a figure He would like me to tell him something that's in the ball park.

H: Yes. Well Dr. Kissinger you see this involves a number of companies besides my own.

K: I don't expect an answer now.

H: So.

K: And I don't particularly want to get into this.

H: Yeah.

K: I'm delighted to stay out of it.

H: So I really can't. I don't know what figure is acceptable to the industry. We all know what we have offered of course. Which we all agreed was satisfactory. But that was not acceptable to the Saudis. In fact, Dr. Kissinger, we've made about four or five offers and we've been coming down more and more toward their figure. The last one was made in London about a month ago and that has been rejected. We have not yet decided how much further we can go.

K: I'm not asking you to go for---. I don't know the figure that you've offered I've no desire to get into it.

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.6

*

6/21/64 WASH. D.C. 5/13/64 - 3 -

H: Right.

K: I just had promised Mr. Jamieson that I would do what I could and I've done it.

H: I think it's very helpful that you've made these points to him. What was his reaction, Dr. Kissinger?

K: Well I told you, he's willing -- I think they are eager to be reasonable and I don't think they're going to stick with their figure.

H: I think the first thing is probably for the industry team that has been meeting with them to go back in there and work on it again. He has apparently given some indication to others in Washington that maybe a figure of maybe halfway between our London offer and book value might be something they could agree to.

K: I can't.

H: This would be something maybe I could try to propose to the industry to see if we could get together.

K: Well, I don't want to suggest -- If you find it helpful to give me a figure that I can pass on to him that sounds reasonable I'm willing to do it. If you don't want to do it I certainly have no interest in it.

H: Right. I really don't see how we can negotiate that way on this particular problem.

K: Well that's fine with me.

H: At the moment. We do appreciate very much your speaking to him though and indicating that we do have the support of the government on some of these issues because we feel that they have been pretty inflexible.

K: OK, fine, well we'll leave it at that then.

H: Do you want Mr. Jamieson to call you?

K: Well if he wants to. It is entirely up to him.

H: Yes. There's this matter of a possible emissary and so forth he was talking with you about.

K: Well you know we won't send emissary unless we know what he is supposed to discuss.

["H. J. M. H. J. M. H. H. M. H. M. H. M. H. M. H. M. H. M. H. M

Hanoi, 12 November 1969

19. On the Basis of Mutual Trust and Assistance

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12939, Sect. 3.6

By: KMLY NAFU Date: 5/12/69

K: In fact they have very clear ideas on how they should be conducted. We have an understanding with the North Vietnamese that we would divulge nothing. They are very sensitive about that. I think we have to respect that for the sake of progress.

G: Yeah.

K: If the thing fails it will be apparent sooner or later. And if it succeeds, it of course will also be apparent sooner or later. But until either of these conditions arises we just don't feel we ought to say anything.

G: Is it safe to assume that there is more going on than just the military situation as far as--like when the President expressed confidence last week, said the chances of--

K: I just don't want to discuss that. You know, there's a lot of speculation that we're trying to push them in one direction or another. That we have succeeded or failed. And it's all uninformed.

G: Right.

K: And I, look if I were in your shoes I'd find this maddening. As far as I'm concerned as I told Bob this morning I'd rather have-- If I look at it from the <u>mix</u> point of view of the publicity or political impact a story like his of this morning is worth more to us than a three paragraph story that just records the fact of the meeting.

G: Not necessarily. The problem is if expectations are built up and then it fails say--

K: I don't think a story. I mean last time you had a headline over your story. I know you don't write the headlines, saying "Deadlock Reported". There was absolutely no basis for that one way or the other.

G: Which story was that anyway? Was that--

K: When I had my last private meeting.

G: Oh I see.

K: There was a headline saying "Deadlock Reported", "Deadlock Deepens" "Deadlock Continues" or whatever the phrase was. At any rate it was wrong.

G: Yeah, yeah. I don't think I wrote that did I? I don't know.

It is possible that the report in this
article is an April Fool's trick.

By: K.L.Y. NASA Date: 5/13/04

K: No, no you didn't write. It wasn't even talked about by your story.

G: No in other words what's happened I guess is after your last meeting the regular Thursday session didn't move anywhere and so I guess the reporters were trying to read into the Thursday meeting some reflection of your meeting. My problem just from an historical point of view having read these Pentagon Papers things on the diplomatic side of the VietNam talks I was struck by the how little is different, private or public except maybe in the Marigold episode and likewise in your own revelations about your earlier private meetings and what was public at the time. There really didn't seem to be too much difference.

K: That isn't true. Last summer there was some movement.

G: That's true, the May offer of course we didn't have any inkling of, I guess. So your advice to us is really just to--

K: My advice is look I don't want to create expectations.

G: Right.

K: And frankly you are the only paper that I've really called. And you're all x writing essentially the same thing. So I'm not I really did it out of respect for the paper. It makes no difference to me.

G: Sure

K: And I just can't help you very much and I think we have to be meticulous in keeping to our engagement.

G: Well let me just for a future reference in a sense. Of course we tend to watch every minutiae that is said in the public here particularly from our side and the President's speech after your last meeting. I can't pinpoint it each day but I remember when something as routine as accepting the credentials of the South Vietnamese Ambassador we didn't write a story on it, but I just noted that the President was mentioned that North Viet Nam had not even examined our position or something rather negative in tone.

K: I wouldn't draw any conclusions these things one way or the other I really wouldn't.

G: The ball is still in play is what you are saying. Since we don't know which way it's going to end.

If you don't draw any conclusions and I'm not trying to be mysterious, I'll do my best to be neutral.

By: KMLW NAVAQ Data: 5/13/04

K: That's essentially what I am saying.

G: Right. I appreciate your calling.

K: Don't draw any conclusions and I'm not trying to be mysterious.

G: Right, right. You're taking a neutralist position here.

K: That's right. I'm trying to be as fair as I can within the limits that we set ourselves but all of this is totally off the record.

G: Right, I understand that. Of course the bureaucracy as you know knows nothing.

K: They're battling away at a fierce rate.

G: The skepticism is enormous.

K: That's just partly wishful thinking.

G: I'm not sure about that.

K: Hope.

G: I suppose it's

K: I don't think they could bear it if it worked.

G: I think of some individuals maybe you're right. Others I think-- Most people I spoke to whom I respect said right off they didn't know anything.

K: If you look at the record you have to say no negotiation is ever going to succeed. And yet you and I know sometime somewhere over the next year some negotiation is going to succeed. It isn't going to go on for an eternity. The question is is this the time? Will it be in the future or when?

G: Is North Vietnam really hurting significantly more now than they have in the past bombings? It seems that way just from looking at

K: Our impression is that they are. Then again, how much more significantly whether it's enough to make a difference in relation to what, what do they really want, what can they settle for. You know all of these things you have to answer.

G: OK. Thank you very much.

K: Nice to talk to you.

TELCONE

Gerard Smith/Kissinger

6:37 p.m. 8/2/72

By: KMLW NASA Date: 5/12/04

K: Hello.

S: Henry, Al Haig asked me to sell some proposed amendment language of Senator Jackson's to the interim agreement resolution. Are you acquainted with that?

K: I'm acquainted with it. All I want to do is--I don't want us to oppose it. It's Jackson's problem whether he gets it through or not.

S: I think we have a practical problem when people call us up from the Senate and say "what about it."

K: Well, what do you think?

S: Well I think it would be very unfortunate if this language carried the day because every time I think the Soviets would make the same declaration and then when we have an anti-submarine warfare program they would say that's a violation, you're trying to endanger the survivability of our strategic deterrent forces.

K: Well Jackson's point is that it strengthens our hand in the next round.

S: Well I, that's in the second part where he says seek equality or something. I don't have trouble with that.

K: What is it you have trouble with?

S: The sentence that says, "the Congress would consider action or deployment by the Soviet Union having the effect of endangering the survivability of the strategic deterrent forces of the US--"

K: Yeah. No we'd have to talk about ABM.

S: Yeah and for instance do you by any chance wanted to develop more accurate re-entry vehicle and a larger yield warhead.

K: No that's just too sweeping. You're absolutely right.

S: And I think it would open us up to a lot of congressional yelps every time they say a new intelligence report on Soviet modernization.

K: You're absolutely right.

S: So.

K: The second part I have no objection to. The first part I think is dangerous.

Re: question about the open line
and the status of the mutual
Negotiation Hall?

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.5

By: KHLW NASA Date: 5/12/04

S: I think that's right.

K: OK I agree.

to
S: As well as being very abrasive I should think the Soviets from the

K: And we can't encourage it. The question is we shouldn't discourage them too much but I'll point out that first difficulty.

S: Yes. All right. I won't volunteer anything but if I'm asked something that'll be the line I'll take.

K: I think that would be correct and I'll take the same line. In fact I'll call Jackson tomorrow and tell him that.

S: OK

K: Good.

S: Thank you.

my chance wanted to develop more
accurate re-entry vehicle and a larger yeild warhead.

And I think it would open us up to a lot of congressional time they say a new intelligence report on Soviet moderni-

You're absolutely right.

So,

The second part I have no objection to. The first part I t-

Re: [insert telephone number here]

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.5

TELCOM

Mrs. Stewart Alsop

6:45 p.m. - 8/2/72

two weeks and then he gets

K: Hello, Tish, how are you?

A: I'm fine, how are you?

K: OK.

A: Was it all right - the meeting?

K: You're talking like Stu now.

A: What do you expect Henry, you just got back.

K: We just have an agreement not to talk.

A: All right.

K: My friend didn't get through until yesterday on the parsley.

A: On the parsley, tell me all.

K: There's nothing to tell. They bought as much parsley as they could and then squeezed it into juice. They went all over London to buy it.

A: Did they get really bunches and bunches and bunches?

K: That's right. They went all over town. They said it was a maddening experience.

A: It must have been.

K: But it. . . . the blood count.

A: Ah ha! Well, this is fascinating, you know.

K: But the man said every case of leukemia is different and . .

A: Well, this is what's so really maddening about it.

K: What works in one case may totally fail in another. And he also said what helped in his son's case was hemoglobulin but that he gets already.

a new drug out which you
rospandium (ep.).

at NIH.

be a problem.

Re: questions about the open lab

Dr. S. and Dr. C. of cond. Med. School?

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12058, Sec. 3.5

By: K.L. W. NARA, Date: 5/13/64

A: Yes, he gets that already about every two weeks and then he gets the other things.

K: And also he pointed out that there is now a new drug out which you may or may not have heard about called prospandium (sp.).

A: Yes, I think that's one of the ones they used at NIH.

K: Well, I couldn't imagine lack of knowledge of drugs would be a problem.

A: No, I don't think so. I think one of the many problems again is that it's such an individual case.

K: Yeh, how is Stu?

A: He got that ______ thing again, you know.

K: Does it help any?

A: Again, they won't do another . . . . test for a couple of weeks so they don't know but the blood counts hasn't changed yet so. . . luckily the reactions the last couple of times haven't been too bad. So we're sort of waiting around.

K: Well, I'd try the parsley juice if you can bear it.

A: They didn't cook it though, did they?

K: No, they just squeezed it raw.

A: I told him the visual picture of trying to squeeze parsley is what gets me, but I don't know how one would do it but I could certainly try.

K: I asked about it and they said fruit squeezer or whatever that is.

A: Uh-huh.

K: I don't know whether any health store would have parsley.

A: This is what I thought. There's a place where I buy yogurt - they'd be the kind of people who might know if anybody would so I think I'll go and ask them.

The following are the persons referred to in the document.
Please read all of the material in this document.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 1295B, Seci. 3.B

By: KJLW
NARA. Data: 5/12/04

t3

K: Exactly.

A: But thank you very much indeed for finding out.

K: Not at all.

A: I'll report to you on how I squeezed parsley. Well, I hope I'll see you next week, Henry.

K: Good, that will be nice. Joe is trying to get us all together.

A: Yes. It'll have to be some day when Stu's not getting his ____ thing.

K: When are those days?

A: Monday, Wednesday or Friday so either Tuesday or Thursday is great.

K: Good, I think Thursday's easier for me.

A: Well you let Joe know and he'll let me know.

K: Right. Marvelous.

K: But the man said:

A: Well, this:

K: Well, this:

Re: [insert telephone number]

Mr. Henry Kissinger, Chairman

Purdue University

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: KHL, NASA Date: 5/12/72

TELCOM

Joe Alsop/Kissinger

6:50 p.m. - 8/2/72

K: Hello.

A: Hello Henry.

K: Joe, how are you?

A: You're back, how are you feeling?

K: I feel particularly fine.

A: I knew I wouldn't get a damn thing out of you. Couldn't resist asking.

K: Haig is your pigeon. You'll wring it out of him.

A: No, I'm working on my book.

K: You promised me your manuscript.

A: Well, as soon as I get this . . . revised I'll give it to you.

K: Good. Now Joe you mentioned to me about having dinner next week.

A: Yes, either Tuesday or Thursday.

K: May I let you know tomorrow. I'm only calling you today so that you don't think I'm . . .

A: That's quite all right. I talked to Tish about it today and they're reserving both nights in case you can come.

K: Good, well, I'll do it one another or the other.

A: Lovely.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 1295B, Sec. 3.5

TELCOM

Bunnie Laskar/Kissinger

10:08 a.m. - 8/3/72

By: KHLW NAFU Date: 5/13/04

K: Hello.

L: Henry, how are you?

K: Bunnie, how are you?

L: Good. Welcome home.

K: Thank you.

L: Did you ever see the thing in the *Times* the next day?

K: Yeh, that came out very well.

L: Good. I thought it did. Another thing I wanted to tell you - I wanted to do an indepth study of what you told me at once about the South Vietnamese defensive fighters and offensive. I have learned after working for a week that the reason for that is that on the offense they've been trained over the years to fire standing up and this is from our own army. I went to great lengths here, but that's why. I don't know if it does any good. at this late date.

K: No, I appreciate that.

L: They fire standing up. They don't go in on their stomach. They stand straight up and that's the only way they know how to fight. I couldn't understand it. I've worked very hard at this.

K: Let me talk to our military about that.

L: Right. Everything else OK?

K: Everything else is in good shape.

L: Great. Wonderful. If there's anything I can do for you, let me know.

K: No, but maybe we can get together sometime.

L: I hope so. Let me know.

K: Good. Nice to talk to you. And thank you for everything.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E102582
By CHNARA Date 05/01/82

TELCOM

Dobrynin/Kissinger

7:21 p.m. - 8/2/72

D: Hello.

K: Anatol, how are you?

D: How are you? You are back now. When you come back - today or yesterday?

K: I arrived last night.

D: Well I suppose you had some rest and relaxation on the plane.

K: It's still tiring. It doesn't change the problem. Anatol two things: One is we will arrange the return of the money except for $20,000; for some reason that has to be held temporarily but you'll get $180,000 back next week sometime.

D: Oh, I think it's fine but $20,000 you going to keep.

K: No, no that won't be kept but I have a paper here which I have now mislaid that explains it. There is a precedent that they have to follow and which if they wanted to overcome it, it would delay it another two or three weeks.

D: Oh, I understand. No problem.

K: The easy thing is to return the $180,000.

D: Yes, but later one . . .

K: No, I have worked these things out always - I'll think another way of working that out. I am just determining what can be done immediately.

D: Yeh, I understand. Thank you very much.

K: That I can do immediately and have it for you by next Wednesday or Thursday. But I'll keep in mind the other.

D: OK.

K: Now the second is we have a request here that the Chairman of the Evangelical Baptist Church of the Soviet Union.

D: What's his name?

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E1-1282
By CNAR Date 01/23/82

K: Schweitkof (sp. ?)

D: He is the Chairman of the Baptist Church?

K: In the Soviet Union. The General Secretary of the Church, Alexi Eychkov and two others want to call on the President. They are traveling in this country and the reason for doing it is because the President attended his church in Moscow. Now this is of course an informal request. Can you give me an...

D: When it will be?

K: I think tomorrow or the day after.

D: Tomorrow. I don't think it is in general a good idea. That's my impression.

K: OK, well I'll stop it. It's easy to stop. I see no reason to do it to tell you the truth.

D: Yeh, I think it is not a good idea.

K: No, we just won't do it.

D: We are going to have a meeting on Friday.

K: That is my recollection - at 1:15.

D: I remember making it at 1:15.

K: No, can we make it at 1 o'clock?

D: No problem.

K: I understand Buchwald has challenged your chess game.

D: Yes, really.

Wexpx

K: We played two games. He beat me one and I beat him one. I think after I get some practice I'll beat him four out of five.

D: OH, Oh. At first he said that he simply kill you but then after he told me you each won one.

2

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E01258

By CNARA Date 05/01/85

K: You'll beat him. He's like his columns. He's very ingenious in moves. He's constantly on the attack. You develop your position very strongly.

D: And just wait for him to attack.

K: He doesn't attack in a strategic sense. He'll threaten individual pieces but if you play it carefully you can usually develop your position further by just moving.

D: It's interesting.

K: But I will not make the mistake of playing you.

D: No, no, no, no. Maybe we'll play in Moscow.

K: Because if I play you you will learn too much about my way of thinking.

D: Maybe Brezhnev will play with you.

K: Does he play safe?

D: I don't really know. OK, on Friday at 1 o'clock.

K: OK. Bye.

The King's House, The College, and the Department of Political Science, The University of Texas at Austin

TELCONE

Ken Jamieson (Standard Oil)/Kissinger

8/3/72 10:20 a.m.

NASA Date 5/13/72

K: Hello.

J: Good morning, Dr. Kissinger, how are you?

K: How are you?

J: Fine, thank you.

K: I talked to your associate yesterday.

J: Yes, I just finished talking to him, but he suggested that I should give you a call.

K: Well, he was clear enough. He didn't want us to give them a figure and that's fine with me. The less I have to do with this the better.

J: The problem is as you know is we have got to get the industry together on what the hell they would settle on.

K: What the man did promise me is that they would not inist on net book value and that they would settle for a better figure than the one that's now being discussed. He said any figure I gave him he would consider very seriously. Now it's entirely up to you. This would be given through private channels and would be non-committing. It's entirely up to you. I have no interest in this.

J: All right. We'll have to get together within the industry on that problem.

K: They are willing to give up the definition and I think I made clear to him that a confiscatory settlement would be very disastrous.

J: I think everything you've done with him has been very helpful. I had a couple of questions. Where does the letter stand? Is that going out?

K: Yes but I wanted to have the talk first so we could put it into the context of the talk. I don't see any sense now in sending an emissary.

J: You think everything has been covered adequately with Emir Saud.

Re: Is it possible to get ahold of John Connally?

By: J.K. V NASA Data 5/12/04

K: I think between Connally and me, yes.

J: I talked to John Monday evening and got his story.

K: He told me.

J: This is very helpful to us, I'm sure and I think we'll have to zero in and have another meeting with them. Probably in Saudi Arabia or Beirut.

K: I think, I don't know how influential he is but I think we got his attention.

J: I'm sure you did. As you know, he's right in with the King and I think one of their coming men. How much (Emani?) can run around him and discount what he's learned from your people in Washington I don't know.

K: We can always take another go at it.

KJ: We've got the ball now and we'll go ahead with it. We may be back at you.

K: Keep me informed. I have set up a direct channel to this fellow so I can move fast.

J: Thank you very much for all of your help and we'll certainly keep you informed.

K: Not at all.

rous.

helpful.
It's any?

talk first ... the talk. I don't see any sense in it.

into
ing

everything has been covered adequately.

The New York Times and the open life
of the Sen. of Connecticut
Public Service Staff

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sect. 3.6

By: KJLW NWSA, Date: 5/12/04

2

TELCOM

Gerard Smith/Kissinger

10:29 a.m. - 8/3/72

K: Hello.

S: Henry, can you tell me if this Beecher article is accurate?

K: I haven't read it. What is it?

S: It's in the *New York Times* this morning on the front page and says that Co-sponsors of this thing we were talking about last night is Hugh Scott and Gordon Allot.

K: I haven't read it and I can't.

S: It would be worth your while to look at it because it looks to me like it's an Administration position.

K: Well, I'll have to look at it. Now my understanding is that there is no active lobbying from ACDA against this thing.

S: There's no active lobbying from ACDA ever against any.

K: Well no, somebody told me that Spurgeon Keeney is running around the Hill opposing it, is that so?

S: I don't think Keeney knows anything about it.

K: I believe you but I just want to make sure.

S: The first we heard about it was last night when Haig mentioned it to Farley. We hadn't been consulted on this at all. Maybe it's none of our business, I don't know.

K: Look, I've looked that thing over again. I agree with you that that one paragraph is very dangerous and I'm going to point that out to Jackson. The rest of it doesn't bother me.

S: All right. I think that the first paragraph is the most abrasive. If the Soviets, for instance, if the Americans continue their MIRV program whether it's permitted or not under the agreement we'll think that's a very serious issue.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sect. 3.6

TELCONE

Barbara Walters/Kissinger

8/3/72 10:57

K: Hello

W: Hi

K: Barbara, how are you?

(Cut off)

K: Hello

W: Yes, why are they trying to keep us apart.

K: I tell you it's a conspiracy. Where have you been?

W: Where have I been. Well I've been in Paris conducting all these secret talks.

K: I knew there was somebody else involved.

W: How are you?

K: I'm fine.

W: Good.

K: When are coming down to see me?

W: I'm going to be going to the convention I think before we see each other at all. Are you going to be there?

K: Part of the time. I'll go down whenever the President goes and stay with them.

W: I called the other day obviously not knowing you were away. You sound tired. Are you?

K: No.

W: Remember when we talked you said you didn't know what you might have to do in terms of being on any programs and so forth and I thought I should do the same. I really find out what you are, if anything, doing and what we could do in terms of a nighttime CBS thing. Do you just want to forget about everything? This is my business call.

The President's Office has opened its
the Senate and the House of Representatives
for a period of three days.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: KM. V. NASA Date: 5/12/04

K: Let's do the social call first.

W: The social call I'll take care of later. It'll be part of the same call.

K: I think that I hadn't really explored the nighttime thing. In principle I'd be willing to do it but I'd like to turn that sort of thing over to Haldeman.

W: Oh dear.

K: Given their competence they'll probably have me scheduled for the '74 congressional elections.

W: You'd do Sunrise Seranade or something between 6:30 and 7:00 a.m.

K: I'm sure.

W: What did you have in mind except the Today show.

W: The Today Show is very anxious to have you on obviously. They asked if you would come on during the week of the convention.

K: Don't you think I shouldn't do that.

W: My own feeling I don't think you should come on the Today Show live. I don't think you have to because first of all it's better if you can take more time and edit. I'm not sure if maybe if you are going to do anything if you limit it really limit that there might not be a possibility of doing something at night. Now I have no idea whether NBC has any interest in that. I only mention that because you said you had a bid from CBS.

K: I have.

W: I think, therefore, maybe it could be the kind of thing that you could do both of or perhaps do the kind of thing that Rusk did he did separate interviews but on the same day, remember.

K: No, but I would prefer not to do it at the convention.

W: I don't think you should do it at the convention. My own personal feeling is that you should not although we would adore having you.

K: No I frankly would like to be as inconspicuous as possible at the convention. I'll just line up the votes of movie stars.

A question about the open line call
in the news or is it commercial
Publicity Call?

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.5

By: K.L. W.
NASHA, Date: 5/13/04

- 3

W: I hear John Wayne is going to be making a speech.

K: Oh really?

W: Yes.

K: That's not the sex I was thinking of.

W: That's not what you were thinking of, I see. But after the convention and very soon after you really should think what do you want to do, how many do you want to do. The Today program would come and film *and* or we would have you on live or anything you want obviously. Really you are in the position to decide how much you want to talk about and what areas you want to talk about.

K: What I would like to do is not to make--not what do you think of McGovern's view and this and that. I'll be delighted to state my views.

W: You can just say that.

K: Positively, you see what I mean?

W: How do you feel about things rather than. Answering about how you feel about things, your obviously answering how he feels about things. Do I call you? What's the routine? Do I call Haldeman? How do I go?

K: Write me a letter and then I can pass it to Haldeman. That way we're doing it properly. Of course insofar as I have something to do with it I would prefer to do it with something you do or you recommend I do.

W: Well if you do it for the Today Show then, I don't know how we would do it. Whether I would do it whether Frank and I would do it together. That's something we would worry about later.

K: I think they want me to do anything I do in the evening.

W: They want you to do it at night.

K: I think so.

W: What has CBS offered?

K: At one point they offered a prime time hour in the evening and they recently resurrected that. But I haven't accepted it yet and I don't have to.

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

- 4 -

W: Who were they going to do it with, Roger Mudd?

K: Marvin Kalb.

W: Marvin Kalb. Well, of course you could do both. You could do the CBS thing in the evening. I'll talk to NBC and tell them this and see if they are interested. You could do CBS in the evening and you could do us for the very next morning.

K: That's a possibility.

W: X In which case you have both. Unless NBC wants to do one at night but if they say no, we can't clear an hour's time and no we're not interested then it would give you both networks and one right after the other. Let me find out and I'll write you a nice note.

K: Now, when am I going to see you?

W: Obviously, I won't be seeing you at the convention if you're just coming in and spending a very little bit of time.

K: Where are you staying?

W: At the Fontainbleau. You're at the Doral.

K: No, I'll be at Key Biscayne with the President.

W: I see.

K: I will come into Miami Beach but I won't be physically there.

W: You know where I am.

K: You're not coming down here next week for lunch?

W: No, I'm not coming down next week for lunch. I will be coming to Washington not the week after the convention but the week after that, the week of something like the 4th of September. I'll be there for a couple of days and I'll let you know before I come down.

K: Are you going to have lunch with me or are you going to be embarrassed?

W: No, I'm going to have lunch with you. But also since I have seen you,

SANITIZED

A situation from the open sea to the land of the dead

Reproduced with permission

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

6/21/78 NASHA Data 5/12/04

a particularly grueling driving week but I liked her and she liked me and they didn't kill me and they could have.

K: No, it came across as a very sympathetic article.

W: Except I sould a little frantic and I don't really think I am. That's the way Life could be when they're now fighting for their survival they could have been very, very tough on me and they weren't. The New York Times piece which I have been dreading has been postponed in great part because of the separation. Because it meant an awful lot that was said seem outdated, it was a piece that was done five months ago that they were holding up until. I just would like life to be a little bit quiet. I've been quieter on the air, I think. I'd like a little peace.

K: I'd love to see you. Let's try for the week of September 4.

W: I will call you before we come. If there's any time that you see you have free time at the convention. I've no idea what your life is like.

K: I have no idea what's ahead at the convention.

W: You know where I am. If I don't see you or hear from you at all I'll call you before I come down and have our lunch. I'll write the letter.

K: That would be lovely.

W: So nice to talk to you.

K: Nice to talk to you also. I talked to your friend incidently.

W: Which friend?

K: Nora Efron or whatever her name is.

W: About what? Oh, about the article she's doing.

K: Yes. I really let you have it.

W: You did. She's a nice girl.

K: Yes she's a nice girl.

Re: [insert telephone number]

is the case or is it commercial

Preliminary Report?

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.5

By: K.M.L. NASA Date: 5/12/84

TELCOM

Ehrlichman/Kissinger

11:13 a.m. - 8/3/72

K: John.

E: Yes, Henry. The President would like that Laird give you a written statement that he is in favor of the spending ceiling, that it does not impair the Defense budget and that in all respects he recants. Can you cause that to happen before lunch time?

K: (Laughter) I can give it a try.

E: All right. I will be glad to help you. What do you think appropriate?

K: No, I'll do it.

E: OK. We'd like to be in a position so Ziegler can hand it out.

K: Yeh, I just got on the phone to say to get me Laird.

E: OK. Thank you.

The President's Office
the State of California
Nuclear Security Act

TELCOM

Laird/Kissinger

11:14 a.m. - 8/3/72

K: Hello.

L: Yes, Henry.

K: You got all my colleagues all steamed up.

L: I have. I better send over that . .

K: I've read it. I've read it and now they've gotten to the President. The President wonders whether it wouldn't be possible for you to issue some sort of a statement along the lines of what we discussed yesterday to get this thing laid to rest saying you support the ceiling but you strongly feel and you know the President supports you that it shouldn't come out of the Defense.

L: Sure. Well that's really all I'm saying.

K: Could you say it so that Ziegler could refer to it or could you make it as a written statement that Ziegler could refer to because I tell you as a friend these guys are going to be running in that Oval Office every 5 minutes and screaming about it. And I've been telling him that that's all you've been saying.

L: Yeh. OK.

K: Could you do that?

L: Why don't they send me over and then we'll just put it out.

K: Send you over a text?

L: Well, they can send over - I don't know. I can say just exactly what you've said.

K: Why don't you say that you support the ceiling. Your point is that it should not come out of Defense and you know the President supports you on this.

L: OK. Very good. Thanks.

TELCON

Amb. Dobrynin/Minister Gromyko/Mr. Kissinger

11:34 am, October 3, 1972

K: Hello, Anatol.

D: Yes, and now for the first time Minister have a chance to hear how we cooperate.

K: Good. On that text we discussed yesterday, that will be agreeable to us.

D: You mean -- what text?

K: On Berlin.

D: Oh, on Berlin. Could you send me the text?

K: Right. I'll send you the text.

D: Okay.

K: On, let me see, the Embassy height.

D: Yes.

K: We will give you 3 and -- As I understand it, you've just cut us back six meters again.

D: Yes, yes. This is the point. And then we are to describe not to ask any of the 3 1/2 more.

K: Well, if you give us the six meters back, we will give you the three and a half meters.

D: So it will be six we will give back and you will give us three and a half.

K: Right.

D: Okay. I think it settles the whole issue.

K: Okay.

D: Okay. And so you will send me this letter -- I mean, this draft of the _UN_ business, yes? The German business.

K: UN/German business.

D: Yes.

K: ... do it in Bonn.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority
010255
By: WW

TELCORN

Amb. Dobrynin/Min. Gromyko/Mr. Kissinger

11:34 am, October 3, 1972

- 2 -

D: Okay. Well, I'll be back the day after tomorrow. I owe you this
about security.

K: Right. The only thing, Anatol, is we have to play the game again
like we did with Berlin.

D: Yes.

will

K: Because we/give you the unacceptable version, you give us your
unacceptable version, and we compromise on this.

D: Oh, and so it will be precisely like this -- you will send it, Gromyko
will look if it's all right so you put the thing in the Bonn in our channel,
yes?

K: Right.

D: Did you already present your text on this or not yet?

K: No, no; we want to wait until we hear from you.

D: No, I mean the previous one.

K: We haven't presented that.

D: And so then you will present your old one or you will present the new
one?

K: No, we will present the old one, and you present your old one.

D: I see and then it come to compromise.

K: Exactly.

D: Okay, I think it is fine. Just fine.

K: Okay. After this is over, I'll become a theater director.

D: (laughter) What are you afraid of (laughter)?

K: My warm regards to your Minister.

D: Well, he just wonder because he missed you there -- he was just
looking around and said, "Where is Kissinger?" I say, "He is in
the White House because automobile was around." So he would like --

TELCONE

- 3 -

11:34 am, October 3, 1972

D: (cont'd) So he asked me already to give you regards for our visit . . . . he just thinks I am knocking on the * entrance * head. He would like to . . . .

K: Well, it was a great joy to see him.

D: Yeah. He would like to say hello to you alright -- Just a minute please.

K: Certainly.

Gromyko: Hallo.

K: Hello, Mr. Minister.

G: How do you do, how do you do, I am very glad to hear your voice (speaking Russian? . . . . .) I also am thinking on how to say goodbye to you since we departed so quickly from the President since I could not say goodbye to you.

K: Well, I want to tell you how much I enjoyed see ing you and I think we have a general understanding of where we are going.

G: Well, I think that step by step we are going ahead on the basis which was discussed, maybe not so fast as we would like to see, maybe in some respect not so fast as you would like to see, but still slowly going ahead. That is my general not only impression but conviction.

K: That is also my conviction, and I hope you notice the President's reference to ultimate restriction and limitation on the use of nuclear weapons.

G: Certainly, certainly.

K: Good.

G: I am notice this and I appreciate it very, very much and I think we can move on this matter. I think it is worthwhile to apply utmost careful.

K: Right. Well, that is what we discussed yesterday when we were alone with the President.

G: Yes, with the President.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E012058
By: A.W. Ray Date: 04/04/72

OCLASSIFIED
E.O 12958, Sept. 3.6

The President's Office
of the Vice President
Receptionist's Office

TELCONE

Laird/Kissinger
12:05 p.m. - 8/3/72

By: K.L. NASA Date: 5/12/04

L: Henry.

K: Yes, Mel.

L: You know they want to change in that language that you suggested there is one difficulty here - they want me to say he now understands. Well, I can't say that because the resolution that has been approved by OMB will force the cuts in Defense because the __________ retroactive authority to the President make reductions. . .

K: They tell me they're going to cut; they're going to veto some bills.

L: Well even if they veto some bills; even if they hold HEW at the President's level and they veto that bill and that's the only other appropriation bill there and they will come to the President $1 billion above his budget. The resolution on the expenditure ceiling, even if they veto that and hold it at the President's budget, they still have to get $6 billion and if they have to get $6 billion they can only take it from the so-called controllable items because they are not seeking authority retroactively to withhold funds on the other authorized programs that are uncontrollable. I understand that budget process backwards and forwards and that resolution that has been introduced by Dole does not give the President - he'd have to pay off the complete 20% social security; he'd have to pay out completely and totally. . .

K: You would prefer as long as . . .

L: As long as it does not come out of the - now the reason that I did this - I had to do this in order to beat that McGovern Amendment. Christ, Stennis and Jackson, our own people insisted that. . .

K: All right, I'll have another go at these guys. It isn't worth the time of senior people to tell you the truth.

L: I can't understand it either but I think that - I thought that statement you gave me was a good one and hell, I'll make any statement and say I support the expenditure ceiling but I don't want it to apply - right now I guarantee you we'll have to take the cut.

K: Yeh. You're not suggesting that my associates would ever tell them I'm ______, are you?

The President's Office reports to the Secretary of Commerce.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.6

By: NASA Date: 5/12/04

L: Oh, I'm not suggesting that at all.

K: That has never happened in this Administration.

L: No, I'm not suggesting that at all but I'm - the statement that I made indicated all along - they asked me yesterday...

K: I understand your point. Let me get back to them.

L: You know they asked me the question yesterday as to whether the Congress could make it retroactive to apply to all the other bills and I said of course the Congress can do that.

K: OK.

By Dale does not give the President 20% social security; he'd have to pay

the - now the reason that I said that - McGovern Amendment. Chris insisted that.

guys. It isn't worth it.

I'm doing the best I can. I'm not sure if I can make any more. I want to get out.

TELCORN

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

12:17 pm, October 3, 1972

- 1 -

K: Hello, Anatol.

D: Oh, yes, Henry. Yesterday the President discussed in jokingly way with Gromyko about some workers in the vineyard but he said it's better to send them directly to your office.

K: Right.

D: To you.

K: Right.

D: So, now they are preparing -- they have a case. But they have vodka, liqueur and the same for you. But as for the wines, I will give from my own when I will be back because President would like two cases of wine. I will do the same way when I will be back tomorrow. I will send a case to you and you will give him a [judge in ?] wines.

K: Good.

D: So maybe in two hours, but Antonov will be in touch with you and he will bring this one and I hope you will like some nice girl which looks very nice on ............

K: Oh, yes, yes. It's one of the sorrows of my existence, no one has tried to corrupt me that way.

D: Well, I think --

K: Except Antonov.

D: Yeah (laughter), I understand. No, it's probably the same on this case. And as to the wines, I will send in a little bit because the President likes to have it soon.

K: Good. That's very nice.

D: And so he will receive it and please give him best regards from Gromyko.

K: It will be greatly appreciated by everybody.

D: And second, he forgot to mention when he was there. He hadn't a chance really to discuss with the President or you about some items being introduced in the General Assembly . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

DECLASSIFIED
Authority EO 12587
By: N.M. Date: 10/3/72

TELCONE

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

12:17 pm, October 3, 1972

- 2 -

D: (cont'd) and then on this conditional ______ weapons. It's a response to the Treaty, as you know. Just to ask you to look into . . . . . . Japanese.

K: I will raise it with the President.

D: Obligations, yes?

K: Right.

D: Okay.

K: Right. Well, he arranged it this morning. We couldn't miss it.

D: Did he? I didn't hear him.

K: In his speech.

D: Oh, in his speech, yes. No, I mean, exactly but it was in a speech but he didn't meant -- he doesn't want it to look as if he [raise it in ?] public but without telling him.

K: No, we understand that. Well, he raised it with me and I mentioned it to the President.

D: Okay. So just look into this matter.

K: Right.

D: Okay.

K: Right, Anatol.

D: Okay. Thank you very much for everything. I think everything went really beautifully.

K: Well, we are very pleased too and we will keep accelerating the process.

D: Yes, and really today it was quite an event in the sense it really will make a first time really important agreement.

K: Well, it was very moving.

D: Yes. Well, very good, Henry.

K: Thank you, Anatol.

wgh

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012358
By L.P. NARA Date Stotol

TELCONE

Dobrynin/Kissinger

4:16 p.m. - 8/3/72

D: Hello.

K: Anatol.

D: Henry, about this discussion in the Senate about this ABM ratification and this amendment by Jackson and then the statement by Ziegler saying that it is inconsistent with your policy. It sounds like you are wanting to make an impression on the things which were quite clear. It is no good at all unless we strongly agree with you in the White House and my leadership. What we need is a public statement saying the Soviet Union . . . . I don't like it.

K: Well, I can assure you we had nothing to do with this amendment.

D: No, no, I understand. I just bring you my own opinion without
in any way involving - you understand.

K: Our problem is we're having so much trouble in the Senate with so many amendments on so many different subjects.

D: I think on this particular issue it was more or less clear because I read it was unanimous by the Committee for Foreign Affairs.

K: Jackson used this without our consent.

D: But of course he needed support. It was taken as a go ahead from the very beginning by having it taken. I don't want to be involved in this but I simply know that. . . . . . .

K: Let me see what can be done. I appreciate the spirit in which you make it.

D: Exactly. Some other things I probably would not call you on but this I really. . .

K: You know America well enough to know it doesn't . . .

D: That's why I know that . . . . . authority. If they really wanted to they could really kill those kind of things. It is nothing really from the point of your policy or with regard to your future negotiations it's nonsense, because if it's put this way it will . . . . of future negotiations. You understand that's nonsense. If we agree on something with you

The president of the republic has the power to issue an order or make a decision.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.M.L. NAVA Date: 5/13/84

TELCORN

Dobrynin/Kissinger

4:16 p.m. - 8/3/72

D: Hello.

K: Anatol.

D: Henry, about this discussion in the Senate about this ABM ratification and this amendment by Jackson and then the statement by Ziegler saying that it is inconsistent with your policy. It sounds like you are wanting to make an impression on the things which were quite clear. It is no good at all unless we strongly agree with you in the White House and my leadership. What we need is a public statement saying the Soviet Union . . . . . I don't like it.

Re: [insert telephone number]

Re: [insert telephone number]

Re: [insert telephone number]

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

By: K.L. NASA Date: 5/12/04

TELCOM

Joseph Kraft/Kissinger

8/3/72 4:28 p.m.

K: Hello.

Kr: Hi, Henry, how are you?

K: Joe, how are you?

Kr: It was nice to see you. That was an extremely pretty girl you had out last night.

K: I've got to keep up my reputation.

Kr: You can't possibly. Look, I know you do this to be kind to me but can I make a request? In fact, I guess I have two requests.

K: Yes.

Kr: When you say we've been working the same clients I know it's well meant but people like David Ginsberg really get the wrong idea.

K: Well what clients did you all think we were talking about?

Kr: The North Vietnamese.

K: But what idea would they get?

Kr: They'd get the idea that I'm carrying messages for you.

K: Oh, Jesus that one I thought was a joke.

Kr: Of course. But it's the kind of joke I can't deny so--I know it's self-evident to you but I just you know. It's the kind of joke I can't deny because when you deny it it makes *the* joke serious. I did want to say it's really not good for either of us that's all.

K: OK that was a poor joke. The idea that anyone would consider that you worked for us considering what you write is almost inconceivable.

Kr: You'd be surprised about some of my colleagues. This is the considered view of Buchwald, Mary McGrory and Marty Newman who are three fairly intelligent people in the business.

Request for Proposal to the Open House
of the President of the United States
of America

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12930, Sec. 3.5

By: KMLY NASA Date: 5/12/04

K: What, that you're working for us?

Kr: Yeah, that the reason I didn't like the North Vietnamese ______ was because I carried a message from you which they rejected. I was so stupified by this.

K: That I find so startling.

Kr: Me, too. I didn't bother to reply to that. Maybe I'm being paranoiac about it anyhow.

K: OK. I understand. It was intended as a joke.

Kr: I know it was, I know it was, but David then immediately began questioning me. The other thing is.

K: If you were carrying messages for us, Joe I---

Kr: Would you carry a message for me?

K: I've kept secrets pretty well and if there's one thing I wouldn't do is yell at you in a restaurant.

Kr: I know, I know. I feel idiotic about it.

K: I understand.

Kr: Another thing, if you could carry a message for me if they think I did such a good job, tell Tho I'd love to come back.

K: OK. They really did think you did a good job.

Kr: They did.

K: I did not raise your name. They said to me during a break that they thought your articles were extremely objective, extremely good. In fact I joked, I said why don't we both write this down and sign an agreement and we'll have agreed on something. That startled them a bit and I said--and they said even the last one? I said yes I though the last one was a very good analysis of the situation and the only complaint they had was about your first one.

Kr: OK. I'd love to go back if they'd care to have me.

K: I'll mention that.

It's your last chance to make a decision.
Take your chance or not?

- 3

By: KML V NASA Data 5/13/04

Kr: Are you coming up to Long Island. You said you might be.

K: I don't think so.

Kr: Because if you are we would--the welcome mat is out and we would love to have you come by.

K: I'd love to do it but I'm so busy here.

Kr: I can imagine. George McGovern is really making you look very good.

K: What did he do now? Has he picked a Vice President?

KR: I don't think he has yet, but I. If you want to see something really terrible, look at the I guess there's a story in the Baltimore Sun about the sort of hate affair that Frank Mankiewicz is developing for Eagleton. I don't know if you've noticed it but Eagleton claimed that Mankiewicz asked him only one question, "Do you have a skeleton in the closet?" Frank has now given a press conference on or something in which he said he asked Eagleton many specific questions, including one that went, "Were you expelled from military school for peeing on the parade ground?" Now that's the kind of specific question that a fellow doesn't forget. Somebody's keeping lying.

K: Well I'm not impressed by the way this whole thing was handled.

Kr: Very bad, but I'm not afraid it's quite typical.

K: Really? It's amazing. I agree that he should have gotten off the ticket. Speaking as an individual, it's not the Administration view, my view is they could have let him get off with more dignity.

Kr: Sure, they could have called him up and said we changed our mind.

K: They should have let him run around, that was fine. Then they should have sent someone to him that he had every reason to believe represented McGovern and said you get your triumph traveling around and then you come back and resign. That way his dignity would have been saved, McGovern would have been enhanced instead of diminished. Instead of cutting each other up so brutally.

K:

CLASSIFICO
E.O. 92058, Sept. 3.6

*

By: K.L. V. NASA Date: 5/12/04 - 4 -

Kr: You don't have to comment on this but I think operationally he's quite similar to your principal.

K: You mean in being secretive?

Kr: No, in not liking confrontation, in liking his privacy, in being disinclined to say no to people.

K: But my principle would have gotten this done. He would have done it obliquely but there wouldn't have been 20 guys talking. There would have been only one guy who knew and he would have done it.

Kr: Your principal would have had better judgment from the beginning I think.

K: He would have had somebody do it. He wouldn't have done it himself in all probability.

Kr: My sense of George has always been not a Goldwater of the left but a Nixon of the left.

K: Nancy Maginnes told me that she read a very good article by you that appeared in the New York Post about McGovern. It must have appeared here Tuesday.

Kr: People who are interested in staff operations are kind of interested in this.

K: I haven't read it but she thought it was a good piece.

Kr: It was about the capacity to govern. In any case, I hope we'll have an opportunity.

K: I'm sorry if I embarrassed you. I really meant to... Quite honestly I wasn't really meant to you know... you don't need building up but I meant to...

Kr: I know you were being kind it is just the kind of thing to be nipped in the bud.

K: It never occurred to me that you were accussed of that other thing but I understand the sensitivities. After November 7 we'll all get sane again.

Kr: Are you going to be here next week?

K: Yes.

The President's Office of the Vice President
The State of New York
Executive Summary

By: KMLW NASA Data 5/12/04

TELCOM

Laird/Kissinger

5:14 p.m. - 8/3/72

L: Henry.

K: Mel, how are you?

L: Good. Say I hate to bother you. I don't think they got enough to do
over there in the White House but you know I thought they were going
to stand on that statement.

K: That's right.

L: Now they've gone out and said that I had been consulted about the $250
billion.

K: Oh, Jesus, who did that?

L: Ziegler. And goddamn it, I never was consulted about that Henry
that didn't even come up at a Cabinet meeting. They talked about
expenditures but they never talked about putting $250 billion out of
the table just before they voted. We got that McGovern vote again
and I got Jackson and Stennis and these other guys that were staying
in there against the McGovern amendment. And really I was never
consulted about this. It's just better if I give those guys a little
support that are battling for us. We don't gain anything by giving
McGovern a chance on his amendment again. You know I don't think
they read that memorandum I sent to the President. Did they ever
read it?

K: I doubt it.

L: Make sure they read that little memorandum I sent over there on
Monday because you know I hate to bother you about this.

K: No, that's what I'm here for.

L: They should keep escalating this thing all the time and they ought
to just leave it lie.

K: I couldn't agree more.

L: I have to take some positions that are a little bit tough but I have
to do it in order to keep the troops in line.

It is possible that the content of this
message may be sensitive to the public.
Please read it carefully.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12950, Sept. 3.6

By: JMLW NASA Date: 5/13/04

2

K: Don't worry about it. I'll quiet them down. I'm going to shut Ziegler up now.

L: How about letting them read my memo to the President anyway. I don't think anybody has read it over there.

K: I'll get Ehrlichman to read it.

L: Just give him a copy of it because Jesus this is rather serious and they say that there are other bills up. They only other bills are the HEW appropriation bill and that isn't going to be cut below the President's budget and that's already passed both the Senate and the House. It's just a conference report that needs to be acted on. I'm not trying to burden you with problems Henry and I think it's a lot of crap anyway.

K: It is a lot of crap and they should just shut up now.

L: They're just trying to make a story out of the damn thing when we should just let it lie.

K: You have no idea how much time Haig and I have spent on this idiotic thing.

L: Is that right? I was just going over the clips that came in from - that they brought in here. I don't give a damn about it. What the hell do I care but they say that their telling them that the President slapped me today and that . . .

K: Listen I talked to the President and he's perfectly relaxed about it. There's a lot of staff guys churning it around.

L: Just so he knows what the facts are over there with the McGovern amendment. Christ, it was important to win that.

K: He understands Mel. Don't worry about him and I'm going to shut these guys up now.

L: I'm not trying to perpetuate this thing at all but I wish they would just stay with the statement and shut up.

K: I agree with you. OK. Fine.