TELCORN

Walter Stoessel/Secy Kissinger

9:02 a.m., October 1, 1973

K: Walt, did Eagleburger talk to you yesterday about talking to these Ambassadors?

S: Yeah, he did.

K: Now on these talking points we did for you, I think you should drop the one threatening to cancel my trip to Europe. I think that's the sort of thing that invites them to hit you. Don't you think so?

S: I think so, yeah. Henry, I haven't seen these talking points yet. Larry said he was working on them but --

K: There was nothing to work on; they were done. It's only a page and a half. And I told him to consult with you. You mean you haven't got them now?

S: I haven't got them now.

K: You'll have them in two minutes.

S: But he told me what was involved and I had read the article of course.

K: But could you do that today, just dropping that one paragraph?

S: Sure, sure.

K: Then give me a call after you have them to tell me what you think.

S: All right.

K: It should have been in your hands.

S: Yeah. I thought, Henry, I would also perhaps give them what we gave the Nine up in New York. Some of them had asked for the Ambassadors to be informed here.

K: Yeah, but you better tell the Ambassadors that we insist that they keep their staffs under control.

S: Right, right.

K: I don't know whether I want to be that conciliatory -- Well, just give it to them but let them know we are teed off.

S: Sure.

DECLASSIFIED

E.C. 12/25/8

By NAR. Dec 6/16/84

TELCONE

Speaker Carl Albert/HAK

10/1/73 - 9:13 a.m.

A: Hello.

K: Mr. Speaker, how are you?

A: Fine, how are you?

K: Mr. Speaker, two things. As you know, I tried to reach you last week and couldn't, but I've asked Dave Abshire to look into the question of how we can have closer relationships between the Congress and the Department, and he'll be calling on you, with your permission. But I also thought that if you thought well of the idea that I might have a breakfast with the House leaders plus Doug Morgan next week at your convenience.

A: Fine.

K: Just to review where we stand and what's likely to come up, not in a legislative way, but just to give you a feel.

A: That's good.

K: If you agree with that.

A: I certainly do. I think, just to throw out something here that may be, just in setting it up, timewise, Monday is Columbus Day and there won't be anybody back here before Tuesday noon. That is...

K: Well, how about Wednesday or Thursday?

A: I think Wednesday or Thursday would be the best day.

K: Could we aim for Wednesday?

A: That would be fine with me.

K: Well, I will have Dave Abshire call the offices of all the leaders and maybe tell them that I've spoken to you about this?

A: Fine.

K: The leaders, plus Maynard and Morgan.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority EC 12/95/8
By: NAR, Page 6/10/94

-2-

A: Alright. Fine.

K: And, finally Mr. Speaker, I'm giving a dinner Thursday evening in New York for all the Chiefs of the delegations of the UN, and I'm asking a number of the Congressional leaders whether they would be willing to join that, and you know, show some bipartisan interest.

A: I would like to. I have a very difficult, I'm leaving Thursday for England for the weekend because my college at Oxford is doing something for me.

K: I see, well then you probably can't.

A: I'm sort of tied into that, with a long-standing commitment and I hate to do it, but I just feel that it would inconvenience so many people.

K: No, no, you can't cancel that.

A: That's just a weekend affair but I've got to leave Thursday. I appreciate your inviting me and you can certainly tell everyone that I am still very much in support of a strong bipartisan/nonpartisan approach to foreign policy.

K: Well, that you have proved over the years, Mr. Speaker. I look forward to seeing you, then, at breakfast either Wednesday or Thursday, and we'll aim for Wednesday.

A: Alright. Thank you very much.

K: Thank you. Goodbye.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority EC 12958
By Top NAR. Lr. 6/16/84

TELCONE
Sonnenfeldt/HAK

10/1/73 - 9:22 a.m.

K: Hello?

S: Yes.

K: As long as we're so busy, you got to get off our back. We can't clear everything with you. I've got a right to do a few things on my own.

S: Well, I was simply wanting to make sure...

K: How the hell did you find out?

S: Because I was talking to Stoessel.

K: Probably Eagleburger should have told you but we're all working all day Sunday. We're drowning in work. It's bound to happen that some things don't get cleared, particularly what you and I had talked about.

S: No, but this is a fairly important one and I just wanted to be sure that I knew what you were doing. I run into these people, I have my hearing today and if I run into these people I want to be sure that...

K: Well, you get a copy of...

S: ... we're on the same wave length and...

K: Well, are we on the same wave length?

S: Yeah, I understand that you wanted even to say something about not going to Europe if this goes on and I just want to be sure that I know what you're thinking.

K: Well, now that paragraph I'm dropping.

S: Particularly since I will be having lunch with Ortoli and you today, so it's just a matter of knowing what everybody's doing, so we say the same thing.

K: No, no. You should get these copies, but while you are still over here with no official position in State it isn't always to get these things around, particularly when we're all drowning in work.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority: E.C. 12/25/8
By: NAR, Tue 6/16/84

-2-

S: Well, I was drowning in it over here, but anyhow, I'm going up in about half an hour for this hearing and I will stick to the line that we discussed the other day, if I'm asked about whether I'm really going to go to the Treasury or not.

K: Which is what?

S: Which is that's what I was nominated for and that's what my intention is but that I'm....

K: I'm going to call Long right now.

S: What are you going to say to him?

K: I'm going to say I hope very much ______. I want him to know in fairness that I'm considering you for a position in State.

S: Are you going to say that no decision has been made but that....

K: No final decision has been made...

S: But it's a possibility and ....

K: That makes it all the more important that they clear him because it would deprive you of two jobs.

S: But I think as long as you just alert him to the possibility rather than making it a firm decision, hopefully he will not say, well, if you're considering, why don't we wait until you're finished considering.

K: No, I don't think....

S: He told me on Friday that he wants to clear the thing through.

K: Well, I think it's better, though, for me to call him rather than say______

S: Well, as long as it's just an alerting thing it is a matter of courtesy to show him....

K: O.K. Let me call him before he gets to you.

S: O.K.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority: EO 12458

By: JG SAR. Dte 6/16/84

TELCORN

Walter Stoessel/HAK

10/1/73 - 9:28 a.m.

K: Hello.

S: Hello, Henry.

K: Walt, has the thing finally shown up?

S: Yeah, I just got it. It takes a long time to move.

K: O.K. I think you should drop the paragraph that says, "If this is the case I should reconsider my trip." Don't you think?

S: Yeah. I think that's bad. That's too threatening, I think.

K: Because I don't want them to say something on which I then may have to act.

S: Right.

K: But it should be very tough in every other respect. And it should ask for some assurance.

S: Yeah. Do you think I should just see those people who you saw in New York?

K: Well, what do you think?

S: Well, I think certainly that. I don't know about the others because they spread this word around among them. I could run through the whole group. Or maybe it's better just to focus on the big ones.

K: Because they had that meeting.

S: Right, right.

K: It really could have come from anybody.

S: It could have. Now Binder speaks of four ambassadors.

K: Well, I'll have them all down, but start with the ones I saw. But you might call their attention ... Italian. if he could split from the others. They probably are the leakers. What I would like to do is thank him for all his help. I want to see whether Morer won't come over here next week. I don't see how I have enough time to see him there.

DECLASSIFIED

-2-

S: It would be difficult unless you could fit him in on that Monday or Tuesday, the 15th or 16th.

K: Yeah, but it won't be a long session anyway.

S: No.

K: O.K. Well, will you do that Walt?

S: O.K. I'll do that.

K: Good. I'll see you at lunch. Yeah, fine. And bring Ortoli up for five minutes when you are through with him. That means it's got to be in the afternoon.

S: You want to see Ortoli what, after lunch?

K: No, not Ortoli, I mean the other guy. What is his name? The Ambassador?

S: Ortona.

K: You Ortona will keep the schedule.

S: O.K.

K: Well, thank you.

DECLARED

Authority: E072658

By: E. P. NAR. P.M. 6/9/94

TELCON
Sen. Long/HAK

10/1/73 - 9:37 a.m.

K: Hello.

L: How are you, Mr. Secretary?

K: How are you, Senator?

L: Fine.

K: Senator, I understand you are having hearings today on Mr. Sonnenfeldt.

L: We hope to wrap it up today. At least the hearings.

K: Right. Well, Senator what I wanted to tell you, on a confidential basis, is that I'm considering him, without a decision having been made also, for a position in the State Department which will also require confirmation. And I'm making a decision on that within the next two or three weeks. I felt in fairness I should tell you this so that you don't feel he's not being open with you. It makes approval by your committee in a way more important. Because... well, you understand why.

L: Yeah, well, I really feel we should have confirmed him already, frankly, but we got a couple of Senators here who have been sort of dragging their feet on the matter so what I'm concerned, I know all I want to know about it and I'll get this thing over with as soon as I can.

K: Right. And you understand that if within the next two weeks we should send signals on you?

L: In other words if we should pin him down for some other job it would be a job of equal significance in some other capacity.

K: It would be a job of equal significance in another department and then of course it would be very important if your committee could nevertheless give him favorable consideration so there isn't any conflict between two committees.

L: Well, that's fine. I'll try to bring that about. I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be confirmed.

K: It may not happen, Senator, you know, I'm still juggling positions at State. But if I proceed it will be on the basis for a position of equal importance.

L: Yeah. O.K. And I'll try to reach a favorable conclusion on this end, too.

K: That would be very nice. Hope I have a chance to see you soon.

L: Thank you. Bye.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority: EO 7258
By: NAR. Date: 10/6/84

TELCORN

Senator Mansfield/Secretary Kissinger

Monday, October 1, 1973

1:00 p.m.

K: I keep bothering you. I have three problems. One is I am giving
a lunch here at the State Department on October 11 for Huang Chen and
I was wondering if you were in town if you would like to join.

M: Let me check on it, Henry, and call you back.

K: October 11. A week from Thursday.

M: Lunch for Huang Chen.

K: Second is of same nature. They want to give a dinner for me. I
am going there the 26th through the 29th. This will not be announced
until Wednesday of this week and they want to give a dinner for me on
my departure and they asked me to suggest a guest list and I of
course would very much like you and Mrs. Mansfield to be present.

M: Q. k. What is the date?

K: We were thinking of the 19th, 20th, or 21st but before giving them
a date, I wanted to check with you.

M: We will be delighted. Any one of those days.

K: Third question. I mentioned to you that Byrd Amendment on India.
I wanted to ask your advice on how to handle that. Should we wait for
a conference or should we...

M: I think the best thing to do would be to talk to Stennis and Symington;
and Tower and Thurmond, and also the House members who will be in
the conference there. This matter was not in the House Bill. It would
be taken in conference and they will either split the difference or obliterate
it entirely.

K: Not a lot of difference to split. I will get Rush to talk to the Senate
and House members.

M: O. K. A good idea.

K: Good. I will hear from you about the 11th and we will let you know
which evening is selected by the Chinese.

END.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority: EO 12958

BY NAR: The 6/1/84

TELCONE

Sen. Mansfield/Sec. Kissinger

Monday, Oct. 1, 1973

3:30 pm

M: I have looked over my schedule and I find I will be in Boise, Idaho, on the 20th. The dates you had were the 19th, 20th and 21st.

K: Correct.

M: Could you make it the 19th and I will see if I can get a schedule out the next morning.

K: I will do my damnedest. The 21st you could not do?

M: No. I will be out there.

K: I will do my best to do it on the 19th.

M: O.K. When are you leaving on Wednesday?

K: I will be leaving about 5:30 in the afternoon.

M: If I can make it, can I go with you.

K: I would be delighted.

M: If I cannot I will go the next day.

K: Of course, Mrs. Mansfield is invited too.

M: She is in New Jersey with a cold. She might come over and she might not.

K: I will be delighted to take you on Wednesday and if you come commercial on Thursday, we will pick you up at the airport.

M: Fine

END

DECLASSIFIED

Authentic. EO 12558
BY DONAR. THE 6/1/84

TELCON

The President Secretary Kissinger

Monday, Oct. 1, 1973

5:55 p.m.

N: When I called Jackson to thank him for his help in the defense pro-
curement he said he would appreciate it when you have some time to
see him about energy in foreign policy and I said I would let you know.

K: Absolutely.

N: I told him I would leave it to you and you would contact him.

K: I wanted an excuse to see him anyway.

N: I told him I would call you and you would call him. How did you get
along with the Frenchman?

K: We had a good lunch. He was very impressed by your talk. You said the right things.

N: The thing about him is it is like pulling teeth to get him to say anything. He is a smart fellow.

K: He wants to get you to talk.

N: I was very impressed by him. Much better than the other fellow.

K: No comparison.

N: He has an excellent manner. I was very impressed.

K: We had him here for lunch and we had...

N: I think he will be helpful.

K: I think he will be helpful too. I am trying to get on with him and what
you said played well into it. I want to give them the feeling if they are
helpful politically, we will be helpful in monetary and other things.

N: I saw how you linked that. When we double team that way -- we say
we don't like it but it is a fact of life. If we do well on one front we do
better on the other. The atmosphere is better. He gets the point.

DECLASSIFIED

TELCONE

Oct. 1, 1973

K: I think also when the monetary thing is settled that will be an historic
event this time. It will be a new system. It should not be done as a
technical negotiation. I think you should make the big decision with
Pompidou and Heath.

N: Excellent idea. I had the idea of pushing for thing thing.

K: You broke the deadlock in the Azores and when in fact it is all done
it should be signed at the head of government level. It should not be
treated as technical.

N: Good idea.

K: At Reykjavik we had strong advice against it. When you go to Europe
and meet Pompidou you should take that occasion to break the deadlock
on the monetary thing. The technicians can work out the details. That
would give him something domestically.

N: We will do that. If you could give Scoop a call. I think call him
tonight to impress on him that I followed-up.

K: I will call him when our conversation is over.

N: When do you have time to run the State Department?

K: I am here now.

N: I know. I called you there.

END

DECLASSIFIED

TELECON

Peter Flanigan/ Secretary Kissinger

Monday, Oct. 1, 1973

6:40 p.m.

K: I have some reports on Meyer. He is very thoughtful; not an innovator. He is about as far as you can get from Walter Wriston. But he is a very sound man. He is 67 years old. I would think age alone gets him. That job would make him an unlikely candidate. Wouldn't you think so?

K: Not necessarily. Do you have a better candidate?

K: I have not been thinking about it. I am not of the same mind with you on the incumbent.

K: I have another suggestion to you for the incumbent. How about President of the Export-Import Bank. He could do that superbly.

K: The trouble is, we have asked a guy and he has agreed to that.

K: Who?

K: A fellow by the name of Wyman(?).

K: Didn't you raise David Smith with me this morning.

K: He is shot down already.

Kearns was pushing him. The person does not have the job and he could be removed.

SANITIZED

K: Let's keep that in mind. The President is prepared to remove Casey.

K: If it is to be done should be done tomorrow.

END

DECLANIFIED

Authority: E.O. 12458
By: Rep. NAR. ENE 6/9/94

TELCON

Sen. Jackson/Sec. Kissinger

Monday, Oct. 1, 1973

7:15 p.m.

J: I know you are busy. I will only take a minute.

K: I am calling you. You cannot tell me how much time to take.

J: I talked to the President. He called me on the defense thing.
At times you have to stand up and fight and it paid off.

K: You and I agree on the MFN on tactics but not on strategy. We know who our friends are.

J: Two quick things I wish you would give some thought to. I mentioned it to the President. I have had the Canadians in because I have this energy problem with the pipeline coming down. You need to get someone on top of this thing on the international thing. You have to find an individual. This thing is a mess. Love does not know what is going on.

K: I could not agree with you more.

J: He is going to get the Administration in deep trouble. He has fooled around for two months on this mandatory thing. It will be one snafu after another. Someone needs to do this job for you on the international side.

K: I have a man. I cannot talk to you about it now. I completely agree. I have tried for six months to do it out of the White House and I will do it out of State now. Can you and I get together sometime in the next week?

J: I will get back to you when we can find the time. We are having nine to ten roll calls a day up here. I will get word to your secretary.

K: I will be able to tell you what we are going to do concretely in the energy field within three days. I mean organizationally.

J: I understand. Second thing. I talked to the Chinese today. We are trying to get a group together. They have okayed it for the middle of November. Don't know if we will be able to get out of here then.

K: I am most anxious for you to do it.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority: E.C. 12/58
By: J.N. ARNOLD, P.D. 6/1/69

TELCONE

Oct. 1, 1973

J: Pass on to the Russians if they want me to come over, I will be glad to do it. I don't want to leave the impression we are trying to do a counter-veiling move here.

K: I have been living on that.

J: You know how to do it.

K: That's right.

J: You may at sometime want to pass that on to them.

K: When I see Dobrynin next, I will tell him that. You are one of the people about whom Brezhnev had some real feeling.

J: Love and affection.

K: I did not say that.

J: I keep them in business. If you don't have some adversary you cannot do it well at home you know.

K: I am anxious to talk to you about this and I would really like to talk to you about whether we can at least have a discussion on the MFN when it gets further down the road. That is independent of where we stand on the arms program and on energy.

J: Right. If you get hot on this energy thing -- all of a sudden hell is going to break loose.

K: It is among the top three things I am going to do here. You can be sure of it.

J: The impact domestically. I have some ideas on the Quadafi problem.

K: I am anxious just to discuss that. It is an absurd idea for us to be financing revolutions all Africa.

J: It is setting a precedent. The blue-eyed Arabs in the North are in trouble. We will go over this the first break I get here.

DECLASSIFIED

TELCOM

Oct. 1, 1973

-3-

K: You call me and I will rearrange my schedule.

J: Are you still an early morning type?

K: Yes.

J: We will try to work it in then.

K: You set the time. I will be in New York at the end of the week.
Except for that, you set the time.

J: We will check in and work it out.

K: Fine.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E072458
By [signature] MAR. 1973 1/54

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS PROJECT
DOCUMENT CONTROL RECORD

ITEM REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER

SANITIZED

A RESTRICTED DOCUMENT OR CASE FILE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER. FOR A DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM REMOVED AND THE REASON FOR ITS REMOVAL, CONSULT DOCUMENT ENTRY NUMBER ________ ON EITHER THE DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD (GSA FORM 7292 OR NA FORM 1421) OR NARA WITHDRAWAL SHEET (GSA FORM 7122) LOCATED IN THE FRONT OF THIS FILE FOLDER.

A sanitized copy substituted for an original item which
Contains information restricted under the Privacy Act.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority EC 12458
By NAR, Dec 6/16/84

NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION

NLN FORM 101 (revised 6-85)

DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]

<table><thead><tr><th>DOCUMENT NUMBER</th><th>DOCUMENT TYPE</th><th>SUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS</th><th>DATE</th><th>RESTRICTION</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr><td>1</td><td>Telcon</td><td>HAK and Peter Flmigan (1 p)<br>SANITIZED</td><td>10/1/73</td><td>D</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>Telcon</td><td>HAK and Russell Long (2 pp.)</td><td>10/1/73</td><td>B,D</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>Telcon</td><td>HAK and Kenneth Rush (2 pp)<br>SANITIZED</td><td>10/2/73</td><td>D</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>Telcon</td><td>HAK and Russell Long (4 pp)<br>SANITIZED</td><td>10/2/73</td><td>D</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>Telcon</td><td>HAK and William Colby (1 p)<br>SANITIZED</td><td>10/2/73</td><td>B</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>Telcon</td><td>HAK and David Abshire (4 pp)<br>SANITIZED</td><td>10/3/73</td><td>B</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>Telcon</td><td>HAK and William Colby (3 pp)<br>SANITIZED</td><td>10/3/73</td><td>B</td></tr></tbody></table>

DUP TITLE

BOX NUMBER

TITLE

RESTRICTION CODES

1973 1-3 Oct. ④
would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.
security classified information.

E. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or financial information.

F. Release would disclose investigatory information complied for law enforcement purposes.

G. Withdrawn and returned private and personal material.

H. Withdrawn and returned non-historical material.

C. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's rights.

D. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy or a libel of a living person.

NA FORM 1421 (4-85)

TELCOM
Sec. Rush/HAK

10/2/73 - 9:13 a.m.

K: ... diplomatic contacts, but I don't want to go into the details of how to do it. And I won't pursue it very far, I'll just do it now to get the sense of the others.

R: Right.

K: With Sihanouk, I mean we can talk about it when I get back to the Department.

R: Good. I won't say a thing about that.

K: No, no, I'll raise it and I think you should state the general view, but I wouldn't go into the tactics.

R: Alright, alright I'll do that.

K: On the Sonnenfeldt matter. Have you seen the Tarr memo?

R: No, I haven't.

K:

R:

DECLASSIFIED

Authority EC-12458
By JG MAR. FEB 6/1974

-2-

K: That I have in a memo.

R: Right. So that my feeling really is, Henry, that unless the, unless we go along with Long and let him see the file, with Hal's consent, we're in a position of wrecking Hal's career. As far as other people are concerned. As far as the President is concerned, this is a case where Hal, himself, wants his file to be seen so he can be confirmed. And anyone in the future who is willing to let his file be seen in my opinion it should be seen. So we're not establishing a precedent of opening up files to Senators against the consent of the person involved, it's the other way around.

K: Now we could do this, or we could, if he's willing to settle for a compromise we could make a summary of the file for him.

R: Yes, if he will settle for that. Now I don't think he will settle for it probably.

K: And then let him see the file on a personal basis as long as he doesn't refer to having seen it.

R: That's right. But I haven't seen Kurt's memo, but the memo basically is don't let anyone see the file, not even the individual just to see his file. But after all the individual also has a career and the precedent is that we're willing to prevent a career from being wrecked by complying with that person's request that his file be seen by the Chairman of the Senate committee. Well, that's not a bad precedent, as I see it.

K: So you would go ahead with it?

R: If Hal wants to do it I would go ahead with it.

K: O.K. I'll call Hal.

R: O.K. Now one other thought is this, whether it would be better for Hal himself to go up...

K:

R:

K: O.K. Thank you.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority: E.U. 2458

By: SAR. The 6/16/64

TELCOM
Sen. Long/HAK
10/2/73 - 9:47 a.m.

K: Hello?

L: Hello Mr. Secretary. Russell Long. How are you?

K: Hello Mr. Chairman. Sorry to keep bothering you about that Sonnenfeldt matter.

L: Part of the job.

K:

Now the problem is how we can get that information to you so that you're satisfied.

L: That's right.

K: And there is a very strong feeling in the Department that these personnel files have a lot of information in general, and have never been made available in the past to Congressional committees. And they don't want to set a precedent. Now my own feeling is we don't want to destroy a man's career just for a precedent and I was wondering whether the following would be acceptable to you. If we made a rather full summary of what was in there,

L: Well, I don't think.... Well, first let me suggest what I think/this thing would be. We have had situations before - I recall on the security of someone on a previous occasion that they had Senator Taft and one Democrat. I can't recall who the Democrat was, maybe Senator Russell, go up there and look at certain information and then they said as far as they were concerned they were satisfied. Now, I don't think that it would be adequate for us to look at a Departmental summary because in this the answer to

DECLASSIFIED
Authenticity: E0 12/25/86
Date: DEC 06 1964

*

-2-

case it seems to me as though we'd have to look at the raw record

D

K: But how could you tell that by looking at the file?

L: Well, but the difference, for example, between us seeing what is available to us,

K: Yeah. I know, I understand your point very well.

L: Now, I'm a lawyer, myself, Mr. Secretary. I also know why ......

K:

L:

K:

L:

SAMPLED

K:

L:

K: Well, what do you think would be the best way to handle this, Mr. Chairman?

L: I think the best way to handle the thing is to send one Democrat and one Republican up here and put me and myself and Wallace Bennett and we'll show them these secret security matters and just let us know. Now we already have the benefit of the FBI record, but that FBI record doesn't have what we are looking for.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority EC 12958
BY NAR. LEE 6/16/64

-3-

K: Now would that become public?

L: No, oh no, no. Now what would result from that would be, if it's as you say it is, I'd assume that Senator Bennett and myself, and Senator Bennett's the best friend the President's got on that committee, Senator Bennett... I would say, well,

K: But you're a good friend too, Mr. Chairman.

L: I'd like to think so.

SINCE IT IS

K: No, no one would ask you to... But what would you say after you had seen the file? Would you say you had seen the file?

L: I'd say I'd been shown the parts that would appear to be the key thing and I'd have to say that having seen all that I think the man ought to be confirmed.

K: O.K. I think we could go ahead on that basis.

L: Well, now is that a definite answer, or do you want to think about it?

K: When would you have to know?

L: Well, we're holding a hearing right here today and it would be good to know as soon as we can. I mean, frankly, I would like to say that I'm going to ask the Secretary of State to make available to me the information, to let me see and to let Senator Bennett see the information that... which was not in the FBI record.

But it doesn't have the
documentation that your files would have.

K: If you could avoid leaving the impression that you're looking through the whole file. If you can just say that I will make available to you, at the request of Mr. Sonnenfeldt, that information which goes beyond the FBI file

L: Well, Sonnenfeldt's in there right now to testify and I could just ask him, well now I would like to see this, I think that under State Department procedures this might require your request to make this available to me.

Would you do it in an open hearing?

Yeah. Or however you want to do it.

Well, I'd rather have you ask him privately.

DECLASSIFIED

Date: 07/25/85
From: J. NAR. Du
To: K.

6/26/85

TELCORN

Warren/Sec. Kissinger

Wednesday, October 2, 1973

9:50 a.m.

W: The President wanted me to check with you. In this press conference today, can he say or have you already said or have your people said, that Kreisky should change his position in relation to immigration center? Have we asked them to reverse the order? He feels we should.

K: We have not asked them to reverse the order. We have not asked him to reverse the order. We have said we disagree with it.

W: We have said we disagree with the order. Can we say anything beyond that?

K: Is he there now?

W: No. He is in the other room.

K: If he goes beyond that he should put it on the ground of terrorism, not on the grounds of telling the Austrian what to do. We think it a bad mistake to yield to terrorism under these conditions.

W: We could say we have already stated that we disagree with the order and then get into the terrorism part. It is his view that people should not react to terrorism.

K: Not reward terrorism.

W: That really takes on Kreisky. You have no problem with that.

K: No. If he puts it on that basis. Second--tell him to please not to talk about the China trip too much.

W: He is going to announce it at the start.

K: That he can do. On Cambodia, he should not indicate that I want to see Sihanouk. He should say that we think it is primarily a matter for the Cambodians to settle themselves. If we indicate we want to see him they will kick us in the teeth.

W: Primarily a matter they should decide themselves.

K: The Cambodians should settle it themselves.

END.

TELCORN

Deputy Sec. of Treasury Simon/Sec. Kissinger

Wednesday, October 2, 1973

9:55 a.m.

K: How are you?

S: Fine, thank you. How are you? I am sorry when I did not get you yesterday. I spoke to Rush. Hal was upset after his hearing yesterday. Understandably so. It is quite a circus up there. I talked to Long as I have almost daily for the past week. He has been helpful although Hal fails to think so.

K: This is a crisis but don't let Sonnenfeldt drive you.

S: I don't. I just want to help him.

K: So do I.

S: It is not easy. Basically, Ken answered my questions as far as the State Department files, etc. Do you have anything for George. I will be calling him.

K: No. Tell him I have been given jurisdiction over Treasury but to exercise it lightly.

S: I read that in the paper and I will be sending you some White gloves.

K: Tell him that is what happens when he is out of town for a while.

S: Hold a press conference on economic policy.

K: I will do that. I have firm ideas about exchange rates.

S: So do I. There should not be any.

K: What do you think of Henry Wallick.

S: I think he is a super guy.

K: Are you considering him.

S: No. He is the head of our consultants here in Treasury.

TELCONE

2

Oct. 2, 1973

K: What do you think if I offered him something here.

S: As your economic consultant you could not do better.

K: How about head of the Economic Bureau.

S: Good.

S: Peter mentioned to me after the 8:00 o'clock meeting about John Meyer. I new him in the banking world. A super guy. Peter said he passed along my comments. He is an ultra conservative; an old school banker. While he is energetic, he is not energetic in the way of Tom Gates but I think you could do better with a younger banker if that is the type you want.

K Like who. I am looking for someone like you. Quite seriously.

S: Let me think about that and jot some names down. Are we talking about Bill's job.

K: Bill who?

S: Bill Casey.

K: Conceivably.

S: I made the suggestion to George that Bob Alsworth would be super man for that job. Smooth negotiator and comes from that area. I will get some names to you.

END

<table>
  <tbody>
    <tr>
      <td>RECLASSIFIED</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
      <td>Author: E012958</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
      <td>Date: 10/1/73</td>
    </tr>
  </tbody>
</table>

TELCOM

Warren/Sec. Kissinger

Wednesday, October 2, 1973

10:01 a.m.

W: He wants to say it is a matter they should decide themselves and does not want to talk China but he needs to know the dates when you will be in Peking.

K: That is in the announcement.

W: He does not have that.

K: He has to read the announcement exactly. He cannot deviate from one word.

W: I will get it from Scowcroft. I thought he had it, but he said he did not. I will get it.

END

TELCOM

Colby/Secretary Kissinger

October 2, 1973

10:45 a.m.

K: I want to talk to you about the INR problem.

C: Right.

K: Do you have anybody at CIA. Could you recommend somebody I could
take for that position?

C: We have a fellow, I am not sure he is quite up to it.
I gave his name to Brant a short time ago. I was thinking of him for
the Near East thing. Very competent but not much in this field now.

SANITIZED

K: Do you know anyone else.

C: Let me run through, if I may. I would like to think it out a little.
I will call you back in an hour. I think I may be able to come up with a
name for you.

END.

BELL LABORATORY

Author: E012858
Date: 10/2/73
D. MARS

*(?*

TELCORN
Lord/ Sec. Kissinger

October 2, 1973

11:00 a.m.

K: I am all disconnected here. Have they given you the new draft?

L: I have it here. A few typoes here and there and obviously some
difficulty in reading your handwriting.

K: I have not read it yet. I have no question that they screwed it up.

L: I am going to work on it from the new draft.

K: I don't think INR cleared that last part. It is badly written.
I wanted to explore it with them.

L: I will expand and fix it up.

K: All right. On the troops to Europe. I supposed I will have to
write... I would like all of this as well as the five power world
theme of what are the issues before us. Soviet relationship.
What is the relationship of val ues to each other. Troops to Europe
relationship to security. Five power world--what are we aiming at.
I would begin by having some of the material from the UN speech.
But say that is not where we are now. Instead of making it a
rebuttal of charges.

L: You want to use some of that material?

K: Oh, yes. But in a different framework.

L: Of the current world.

K: What are you going to have -- will you have another draft for me
the first thing in the morning using some of these thoughts? I
have set aside from 8:00 to 11:00 to work on it in the morning.

L: Yes.

K: Soon we should get a good draft that will be an improvement.

END

TELCOM

Sonnenfeldt/Secretary Kissinger

Tuesday, October 2, 1973

3:30 p.m.

S: Sen. Long called me about a conversation he had with you about a State Department file on me. You said if I requested it, you would be willing to release the file. He asked if I would be willing to do it. I said not at all. I thought it all one file, and when I agreed to it previously, I certainly intended to include the State Department file. I don't know where it stands.

K: I have approved it and Rush is working on it.

S: Someone has to locate it.

K: We have it.

S: I appreciate that. I think that will break it.

K: It will clear you.

S: He is very, very slippery.

K: Long? I don't think so.

S: He is running for reelection.

K: I think he has a good point. Mollennoff is running around against you.

S: Same game. Mollennoff is claiming he warned you and never heard from you.

K: That is quite right. Why should I negotiate with Mollennoff about your security.

S: This was when he was Counsellor.

K: Even then, I would not negotiate. It is none of his business.

S: Second thing, Long said was that you indicated to him that you might want to take me over to the State Department. Long said maybe with all of this mess and trouble the thing to do is to just not bother this Committee with it. On the other hand you will have to face this anyway and perhaps we should go through with it.

K: I said this is what I would wish.

S: I told him that. I said the rest is beyond my control but it would be unfortunate since I have not been offered a job (at State). Even if I

TELCORN

Oct 1, 1973

get neither job at State or Treasury, these issues have been raised
and it should be settled. Byrd raised the question on the record and I
again used the same line when they get together in executive session
after he has seen the file, tomorrow or Thursday, they could have
their session then. I think it is something that will have to be faced
and see what they do. Supposedly they are all set with the possible
exception of Harry Byrd.

On Germany. I will plan to go tomorrow evening but I need guidance
from you.

K: I need now, above all, time to work on my speeches. Even if the
extent of not having you well briefed. I have been trying for a free hour
and a half and I have no time.

S: On this offset. I presume Schultz' position is we need maximum offset.
The issue is between Treasury and Defense on whether we need some loans.

K: I agree with Defense.

S: Final thing is your other German friend. If you want me to see him we
will have to send a message today.

K: If there is anything worth discussing with him. All I want is to line
him up for support.

S: It is up to you. Otherwise we can turn it off.

K: It depends on whether he can be helpful in getting Brandt to move this
thing. You see him and see what you can do.

S: I will do that and I will send a message through our channel if it is
convenient for him.

K: Correct.

END

TELCONE
Stoessel/Kissinger

Oct. 2, 1973

3:30 p.m.

K: My instinct is that we should at least keep open the possibility that we don't table the NATO declaration.

S: It is open now. We have not said that we would. I want to make sure that we did

K: I want to make sure that we don't that we proceed by amending their's.
Look at their's and see how we should amend and what paragraph we
would want to add even if it leads to a 14-1 split.

S: It probably will. Do you want to say now that you really don't want to table our draft or do you want to wait and see how it goes with the French?

K: Let's wait and see.

S: We had thought if we were to do it might be best too...

K: Table our draft.

S: Yes.

K: Let's wait and consider it and on Friday or Monday we say we think the French draft is so good we will proceed by amending it in the operative portions.

S: O.K. By then we will have a little sense of what reactions have been also.

K: Yes. I think Rumsfeld should call it constructive.

S: He was instructed to do that.

K: Where do I stand on my European trip.

S: We are still waiting on Foreign Min. Sheel. I am with the German fellow now. He has not heard whether Sheel will come to London or not. Once we find that out the Italian question falls into place.

K: Moro not coming here.

S: We have not heard.

K: Now I just as soon have him meet me there. I could have lunch with

TELCORN

Winston Lord/Sec. Kissinger

Tuesday, October 2, 1973

5:15 p. m.

K: Could you have me a draft by the very first thing Thursday
morning.

L: Sure.

K: I seem to have about three hours on my schedule then.

L: O.K.

tonight

K: I will try to get something to you/which is going to be very badly
written but it will show you what I am after to supplement the outline
I have given you.

L: I had lunch with Donaldson. I was very impressed and I was
struck by him the way you were. I liked him very much immediately.
I told him specifically that I was not to give him a selling job but
hoped he would consider working with you.

K: I Hope you were (truthful).

L: I was candid. It was a realistic assessment. I tried to give him
the feel of the excitement and the importance of this time. It was in
a low key so as not to pressure him into the job. His slightest hesita-
tion is whether his colleagues have a problem at this time with the
Wall Street in such a mess. I don't think there is any problem there.
I told him what he should start reading.

K: What is your view about Joe Sisco?

L: We discussed this briefly the other day. I am at a dis-
advantage because I have never worked with him. I am attracted
to his dynaism and energy and willingness to work hard. Under
your control I do not think the loyalty would be a problem.

K: That is what I said about Halpern. What do you think about
Newsom?

L: I know even less about him. I wish I could be more helpful. I
did not deal that much with the bureaucracy over the last few years.
I have heard he is a very good man. Whether he is up to number three

TELECON

Mr. Rush/Secretary Kissinger

October 2, 1973

6:05 pm

K: Have you spoken to Senator Long?

R: I have set that up. I'm going to see him tomorrow at 4:00. I will
take the entire file. He told me it was a very bad session this
morning. There was a lot of shouting. It was very confused.

K: Who was shouting?

R: The witnesses. The witnesses got out of control. The whole thing
was very chaotic. One of them walked out.

K: Who walked out?

R: One of the witnesses.

K: Do you think he will clear?

R: He indicated he would. I've talked to Carl Hogis and Hal. ... now
have the impression if Sonnenfeldt goes over to State it should pass
over to Foreign Relations Committee. He wants the full story. ... not
given the full story by the FBI. We'll have the full story from State.

K: He couldn't do it before tomorrow.

R: He said I'll call you back... work out a firm date and we have set it
for 4:00 tomorrow.

K: I guess that's all we can do.

R: I don't think we can do any more than this.

K: OK

<table><tr><td>RECLASSIFIED</td></tr><tr><td>Author: E 01/29/88</td></tr><tr><td>Date: 10/24/88</td></tr><tr><td>Subject: E012988</td></tr></table>

TELCOM
Senator Javits - Secretary Kissinger

October 2, 1973

7:00 p. m.

J: .... no, but we put through your Foreign Aid bill...

K: What happened to Section 13?

J: What's that about, police?

K: No, that's the part about the availability of the right to demand State Department papers.

J: Most of the bad part was stricken. I'll have my secretary call back to your secretary with the stricken out part, if she has a copy of the bill, but they struck out that part that would bother you. They also dealt with the section on police forces in an intelligent way, carved up that section except where....helping foreign governments to educate their police force....cutting out all that business of torture etc. .....there were only a few nettlesome things, the recycling provision was knocked out....

K: Are you coming...

J: We are coming up Thursday night. And I wanted to tell you that Marian suggested... she knows the place very well and she wanted to know who's dinner is it, yours or their's?

K: Mine.

J: Well, she thinks the place is quite cold and she may have some good suggestions for warming it up a bit. She could call in the morning if you will give me the name of someone she could call.

K: Oh, that would be great. Believe me, my people who are doing it are...well, I have got to redo the Protocol Department. That's very nice of you.

J: She can be very helpful, she's had experience in this sort of thing and she knows the place, she's been there many many times. But give me the name of someone she can call.

K: Well, Larry Eagleburger or Jerry Bremer.

J: Now, I wanted to talk to you about one other thing. We are giving a dinner for Huang Wa (? ) who has a new position over there, whatever it is, on the night of the 30th.

2.

K: I'll possibly be out of the country.

J: 30th of November?

K: Oh, November?

J: Yes, November. We will really have a top flight group, so...

K: I'll try my damndest to be there. There is something I wanted to ask you about. If there is somebody I want to put in a position which requires confirmation, from New York, who do I check with, you?

J: Right, me and if he's from New York, me both for Foreign Relations and me from New York as well as Buckley.

K: How much advance notice do you need before we put it before the Committee.

J: Well, as much as possible.

K: But, how much advance do you need?

J: Of course it depends on how much you've got. I wouldn't require....

K: I'll tell you, I have found a guy, we're not locked in and I would like to keep it confidential, but he's Bill Donaldson.

J: of Donaldson, Luft and Geneva?

K: Yes, he was on the Yale Council, you know.

J: Yes, he's a good man. He was mentioned for Mayor of New York along with me and ....

K: Exactly.

J: He's a good man.

K: You would support him?

J: He's got a very good reputation. Yes, I would. I can say flatly.

K: Should I check with Buckley?

J: Let me check him out, politically, I mean, how he's enrolled, etc.

K: I think he's a Republican.

3.

J: Yes, let me check out his file and then we might check with Buckley. We have a file in the office.

K: Good, but it is not yet known to anybody so I would appreciate it if you...

J: Right, I understand. I will look at his file and let you know.

There is one other thing I want to raise with you. We're looking at people for Exim Bank... two fellows who don't rate it.

K: Who are they?

J: One is Smith.

K: I've already looked at him and crossed him off.

J: I don't know where they got him. And the other fellow, Wyman may have inside trouble with, in terms of some thing he's done or been responsible for. I have checked back but don't really think... Your office or someone in the State Department is checking in Japan to be sure there are no... His name is Tom Wyman.

K: Yes, He has been mentioned to me.

J: I'd like to have my friend Herb Salzmann appointed. He's been passed over so many times, it's the most ridiculous thing.

K: Let me talk to Flanigan about it.

TELCONE

David Abshire/HAK

October 3, 1973/9:28

be

A: And I've done some further checking. I just think he would/most
outstanding in the East Asian area. As an Ambassador to Japan
or if you were not bringing Bob back as Assistant Secretary to
East Asia. I think that his ability is not as rounded geographically
as might be needed to be Assistant Secretary for the Economics
Bureau. I wanted to suggest to you Henry Wallich, Professor Henry
Wallich. Henry of course is a good Republican. He's worked on the
platform. He's widely regarded.

K: I know him but would he take it.

A: Henry is, feels that he's got about a 25% chance of an offer of something that would better. I imagine -- he's an advisor to Treasury -- it's in that area.

K: You don't know any Irishmen who want a job do you?

A: I don't know Irishmen. Just strange names.

K: That's the one problem I have with all these guys.

A: Henry Wallich is worth it. He's just tremendous.

K: I know him. He's superb. Have you talked to him.

A: Yes I have. He's a very close friend of mine.

K: Might he take it.

A: He might take it if this other offer does not come through.

K: What is the other offer.

A: He didn't reveal it to me. I presume it's Treasury or maybe if they haven't settled on Sellner(?) to be Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors, maybe it's that. I don't know. But he said he thought there was a 25% chance.

K: Where is he now.

A: He's based at Yale. I got him at Yale yesterday.

K: I'm going to ask him to see me in New York.

A: But if the Under Secretaries position didn't gel I think Henry would be great for that.

K: I've got to reserve one position for a Wasp on this. I know it takes 10 in the Jewish religion for a prayer service but I can't have them all on the 7th floor. One Wasp. Am I entitled to that for Congressional reasons.

A: I'm trying. I've just come up with the wrong names.

K: Well you got me Sisco, can you imagine that line up on the 7th floor Kissinger, Sisco, Sonnenfeldt, Wallich.

A: You want people to keep a sense of humor.

K: It's a talented country, but there is a limit. And maybe a Negro. OK. But no, I like Wallich. I think its a superb idea. Really creative idea.

A: That is what I try to come up with. You should talk to Wheeler on East Asia.

K: Well, I've locked myself in with Ingersoll but I might consider him for an Ambassadorship.

A: What about Japan?

K: I could consider him for that.

A: Could you see him in New York.

K: I have to prepare a speech for that Pacem in Terris conference, that's my problem. How we doing on Frelinghousin.

A: I took one reading confidentially from Hugh Scott yesterday and he thought Peter is great where he is doing what he is. He just felt that he was not ideal for the Senate situation.

K: Who is?

A: I'm going to talk to Doc Morgan and get a further view. But Peter has real problems with Fulbright and Case. I've got a possibility for a good Deputy in ~~*~~ Congressional relations. Not the top spot. But I pause to give you the name.

K: Who.

A: Tom Goldberg.

SANITIZED

K:

A:

K:

A:

K: I'm glad Dave that you are taking such a constructive approach to your assignment.

A: I'm going to the Baptist church to look around.

K: But I must say the Wallich idea is worth a chance. Particularly as all his competitors have the impediment.

A: I had lunch with Carl Marcy and I'm going to see Fulbright and Marcy today.

K: Is Marcy alright.

A: He is fine. He can fully understand it if you don't change the Congressional relations for the next five weeks. He thinks Congress is going to be out within the next 5 or 6 weeks. So he doesn't expect...

K: I may have to recruit McCloskey.

A: Will Bob take it.

K: No, but he won't get another job if he won't. I'm going to be brutal. I will not accept State Dept. people telling me what's better for their career when I tell them what's better for the country.

A: I believe in that motto for everyone but me.

K: Well you're not a foreign service officer.

A: That's right. I think that before you go back to the Foreign Relations Committee that you should offer to appear before that House Committee

K: I've offered it.

A: I didn't know that.

- 4 -

K: And Morgan thought I should do it in November.

A: Well good enough.

K: Make sure he understands that.

A: I will.

K: Tell him I'm going to the Foreign Relations Committee and that he told me on the plane to New York that I shouldn't go until I had something to report and he thought coming back from my China trip would be the right occasion.

A: That's fine.

K: In the first week of November.

A: In my consultations with other people on the Committee when they bring it up I'll point that out.

K: Good.

A: Henry, Hugh Scott said when he was at the Israeli Embassy the other night. First he found the Israeli diplomatic side a lot more understanding on the Soviet Jewry situation than the Jewish lobby groups here in Washington. He said from a number of sources some of those people were telling him that they thought it was to our advantage for you to make a statement of progress in this area as soon as possible.

K: Progress of what?

A: With regard to the situation on Soviet Jewry and Soviet Jews leaving the Soviet Union. Not negotiations progressed but some of the developments and clarification of the statistics this calendar year.

K: OK. I may do that at the Pacem in Terris conference.

A: Perfect place for it.

K: OK. Good.

A: Good luck Henry.

TELCON
Len Garment - Secretary Kissinger

October 3, 1973

11:00 a. m.

G: Yes....

K: Were you telling me this morning, though, that the Jewish
Community does not want to talk to me.

G: No. Not at all. They were in and had an excellent meeting
with Rush on the other matter. Never better. Never a better
feeling about this. What three or four leaders are trying to do is
to talk man to man to key people so that when they have a meeting
it will be most productive and we are still pointing tentatively to
the date you set it.

K: I misunderstood you. I wanted to tell you the night before
that in the Pacem in Terris speech I will publicly support MFN.

G: Everyone understands that. Next Monday, right?

K: I will speak of negotiations completed, achievements we have
made....

G: and the general spiritual problems, given the nature of the
convocation, you will talk about that...?

K: Oh, yes.

G: I think things are generally on the track. It will take some work,
rather than throwing together.... what about the possibility of
getting the UN to do something about Schoenau. Italked to Kreisky ....

K: If IO agrees here we may do it...

<table>
  <tbody>
    <tr>
      <td>RECLASSIFIED</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
      <td>DATE 01/29/87</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
      <td>Author: E O 12958</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
      <td>Box: A1</td>
      <td>Date: 1/24/87</td>
    </tr>
  </tbody>
</table>

Telcon
Secretary Kissinger
Director Colby
10/3/73; 11:20 a.m.

K: Yeah.

C: And I am probably being unfair but he doesn't come on very
strong and I think you'd want somebody with a little force.

K: Yeah.

C: One I suggest you not take -- but I don't think I need too

SANITIZED

SANITIZED

K: Oh, God, no! Not a chance.

C: Not a chance, no. Anyway there are a few ideas for you and I'll
think about it and if I think of anybody else, I'll. . . .

K: Good. Many thanks.

C: Right. Bye.

<table><tr><td>RECLASSIFIED</td></tr><tr><td>Author: EO 12958</td></tr><tr><td>Signature: Colby</td></tr><tr><td>Date: 10/19/94</td></tr></table>

TELCOM

Dean Rusk - Secretary Kissinger

October 3, 1973

12:15 p. m.

R: I have been trying to do a little work behind the scenes on this Jackson stupidity in connection with the trade bill. This morning I had a good talk with Hubert Humphrey (and I would appreciate it if the fact that I talked to him you would keep to yourself).

K: Of course.

R: I think what may be a considerable possibility since what the Soviet Union is now doing is pretty reasonable, ...it could be worked out on the basis of a bill that would say if the President finds that such and such and such and such, the President is authorized to withdraw Most Favored Nation...

K: We can live with that.

R: Yes, I think you can. He suggested that there are six Senators with whom you might want to have a good, private, personal talk, if you have not already done so.

K: As a group?

R: No, individually. Because they ... want to find their own way on this thing.

K: Right.

R: Anyway, the names are: Javits, Gaylord Nelson, Russel Long, Herman Talmadge, Senator Mondale and also, although I'm a little hesitant about this one, Caiborne Pell.

K: These all sound like plausible names to me.

R: I think It should be very private, He thinks since the five would be inclined to be helpful. And, of course, if you get Long and Talmadge and Javits and Mondale you will be a long way down the road. I realize this is an old idea. Nothing new from my end.

K: The names are new.

R: What can be worked out, although in the present situation is ... as soon as we give MFN to the Soviets they may backslide.

R: possibly work out on that basis rather than ....
piece of legislation. I don't know how that fits the situation
as you see it but... a little time helps here.

find some way not to launch to immediate conclusions. Some of
these fellows have taken public positions and they need time to
sort of back away from them.

K: We could do that in the Senate, but the House bill, which
is a collection of stupidity is coming to a vote. What we need
to get is the house bill sufficiently different to permit a reasonable
conference...I think we could then hold the Senate bill until
early in the session next year, I mean.

R: If I thought it would be of any help to call Carl Albert on
this...

K: That would be terrific. ...the Senate roll, if he is given
a restricted roll on the amendment to put... if we could even drop
title V. like big scope for a conference.

R: Right. I would just like you to bear in mind that I have a very
strong interest in this. On the advice of a senator I have not written
a letter, say to the Washington Post, because they feel that quiet,
behind the scenes work is the way this thing will be worked out.
If there are individual senators ....

K: If you would have a talk with Albert and see what he thinks

R: Right. Also I have one other suggestion while I have you on
the phone.

K: Please, I want to ask you about something, too.

R: I think one of the problems for you is going to be to get
our relations with Latin America. We should do something about
the feeling of neglect they seem to have fallen into. I think you
ought to get Latin American Ambassadors and Ambassadors from
the OAS to take them on a boat ride, give them some drinks and
just make them feel ...

K: Well, I am giving a lunch Friday in New York for Latin
American representatives at the UN. I know that's not exactly
it, what you are suggesting, but...

RE: 072258
MAR 19 1975
Dated: 01/04/75

3.

R: That's right, that kind of courtesy, flattery if you like. It is greatly appreciated by the Latinos, who respond to that sort of thing more so than people from other parts of the world.

K: Yes, apparently.

R: On the second day of President Johnson's administration he called in all the Latin American Ambassadors to the White House as one of the first acts of the administration. They were so flattered that it was one of the first things he did and it made a big difference for quite awhile.

K: Excellent idea.

R: It doesn't have to be aimed at a particular subject, or anything. It is just one of those courtesies they will appreciate.

K: I think your'e right.

R: Just give them a chance, its important to these Ambassadors, to send a telegram back hom saying I was on the river with the Secretary of State, and I said to him and so forth, sort of build themselves up back home, you see.

K: I may do it next week.

R: Before the weather closes in....

K: Also, I would like your opinion on the following. I am thinking of replacing Bill Porter as Under Secretary. He's a fine man and I will give him a good embassy, but I don't think he has the sort of intellectual mind that is needed. '

R: I agree on that. I've known Bill Porter a very long time and I have the same feeling. Although he's a dedicated and loyal employee, he doesn't have the wide-ranging imgination and initiative on that particular job.

K: I am considering the following people: Joe Sisco, Bill Sullivan, Nat Davis, Dave Newsom, Phil Habib. Of course, Phil I can't really take because I will kill him.

R: Oh.

K: Really, he had a very serious heart attack and he really might have died if he had not had it in a hospital.

4.

R: If that's true I think that would eliminate him. It's a tough job sometimes. Free ... came through on it. Dave, Newsom, though I would put at the bottom to start with, for that particular job. He's a little too much like Bill Porter. ... I have unlimited respect for his talents and capabilities, that is Joe Sisco. He's one of the ablest fellows to come down the track and I think he also knows Washington, he knows the Hill, he knows how the wheels of government turn. Bill Sullivan would be very good, if you want to change him as quickly as this. I don't know, I would put Joe Sisco in the number one and Bill Sullivan in the number two spot. In my time, you know, I almost put Joe Sisco in that job.

K: The only reservation I have about Joe Sisco... I share your view of his capabilities, but there is one problem. I think if he worked for you that would be a good test, but he does a lot of free wheeling, all over the place, frankly tending to place the Whiate House over the Department, which is something I benefited from at the time in my previous position, but I wouldn't appreciate it. now.

R: I don't think that is a problem, the free wheeling or the loyalty. Seriously, the way I delegated when I was there, I didn't mind a good deal of free wheeling as long as it was within the policy the President and the Secretary of State. I want to point out too that if you can harness those same very considerable talents to work for you, this can be a great asset.

K: What do you think of Nat Davis. Frankly, I don't know him very well...

R: Very competent. He doesn't sparkle or inspire or reflect those qualities of leadership... but he's competent and I don't think you would regret it.

K: So you would prefer Sisco to Newsom

R: Yes... he has the experience. and I have watched him go up and up in my estimation

K: Well, that's a very high test.

R: I would say so. I should mention, too that he is reinforced by an able and attractive wife. She's really something.

K: Yes, I know her. Bob McCloskey and I had a long talk last night. We both spoke of you with great affection. I hope you will be able to come up some time.

5.

R: I do hope to get up some day, Henry, I just want to have you
realize, that I wish you the best of luck and I want to see you succeed.

....
K: Dean, you have proved that. I want you to feel free .... if
you see something that isn't quite right. to call me or come up
and talk.

R: Henry, I thought you might be amused by that 100 days letter.

K: I read it with the greatest interest. Very amusing.

.......end of conversation

TELCORN
Senator Byrd - Secretary Kissinger

October 3, 1973

12:45 p. m.

B: Good to talk with you. I wrote to your Mother and Father.

K: Aren't you nice.

B: I wanted to tell them how sorry I was that I wasn't able to
speak with them at the swearing-in.

K: Aren't you nice. I appreciated your being there.

B: I remember meeting your father at the inauguration.

K: He has about 15 scrapbooks. If you ever see him don't mention
scrapbooks, you will have to read them all. I am calling you about
two matters, but after I get back from New York and abroad, you
and I should have that drink which we have promised ourselves
for a long time. Anyway, there are two items. One, first, we
are considering selling a ship, possibly a cruiser, to the Turks at
scrap value, a ship of WWII vintage to replace a WWI vintage ship
that the Turks have now. I know you take an interest in these matters
and I was reluctant to go ahead with these plans ..... Turkey is an
old and close ally and we have had to cut back military aid recently
because of Congressional restrictions on funds and military aid. It
would mean a lot to them and we would be taking a ship out of mothballs
anyway. We would never use it again.

B: Would it delay it too much for the Congress to act on it?

K: Do you think there would be a problem... getting Congressional ?

B: I don't think so.

K: Since there's no requirement that there be Congressional approval?

B: Well, the legislation has passed the Senate but not the house..

K: So if we go ahead. ... I will be honest with you, we are concerned
that, probably we can get approval in this case, but what happens when
...... we are not really in favor of that legislation, even though I know...

I am concerned about the legislation itself, but I'm not raising that now.
Our problem is that the Turks have asked for an answer in a week,
and it is possible under existing legislation. We are prepared to go
ahead if Congress passed this law, it will after all have to be submitted
to Congress. Would that be satisfactory to you?