DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELECON

Tony Lake

7/29/71 10:17am

K: What are you doing these days?

L: I'm at home, working on an essay with Roger Morris and Bill and working on my PhD at Princeton.

K: Will I survive the essay? What is it on?

L: Human consequences of foreign policy decisions. And I'm also still working for Muskie part time.

K: Oh you are. I have been asked to put up recommendations for the Council on Foreign Relations. I wondered if you wanted me to put your name up.

L: Oh thank you. I am afraid I can't. I am still working for Muskie and hope that will still happen for a year at least. . . . . . Congratulations on your travels. . . . . . I enjoyed the pleased expression on your face in the picture.

K: We'll see what happens. It's the beginning of a process, not the end.

L: Of course, and I hope it's a shortish one.

K: What do you mean shortish?

L: That one doesn't have to give up other things in pursuit of it.

K: I haven't usually been accused of making excessive concessions.

L: No, you haven't.

K: Okay, will you let me know when you are interested?

L: Yes, thank you.

TELECON

Senator Jackson
7/29/71 10:50 a.m.

By NARA, Date 5/26

J: You've been doing a few things since we last talked.

K: Jesus Christ yes.

J: My concern -- I talked to General Haig; I'm sure he told you -- is
the problem we have in the markup of that part of the procurement bill on ABM.

K: There's no possibility of an ABM agreement in August.

J: What about September. This gets on the problem. . . you know
you've got over there certain Senators doing ________. If we are
arguing for only two in September I worry about our credibility on the
floor of the Senate.

K: You know how these things move. If they continue at their present
pace, I don't believe there will be an agreement before December of January.
If the Soviets for some reason decide to run, it *will* might be sooner, but I
doubt that.

J: Are they harder since your visit?

K: No, if anything a little easier, but not enough to change my judgment.
I don't think it will be before the end of the year.

J: But you see our problem if they are asking for two-site things and
we are getting four sites.

K: They haven't got a two-side thing now. We are sticking to three or four.

J: You understand my problem.

K: Only too well.

J: And this could hurt other aspects of our defense budget.

K: Yes, but on the other hand it would help if you went ahead.

J: Oh I will, I'm just worried about the agreement that's on the table.
They'd say we're authorizing this much, but not even advocating it.

K: I understand. You and I haven't been together for a long time.

J: No, I'd like to chat with you.

K: Maybe we could have breakfast next week.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELECON
Senator Jackson

7/29/71 10:50 a.m. p. 2

J: Let me check.

K: Good.

J: Nothing has changed. You don't have to worry about my in national security matters. All over the country I have taken a tough position. It's just Gale McGee and myself on the democratic side except for a few Southerners.

K: I'm not worried about you. If we had 50 more senators like you the country would be in good shape. I just don't see how they think they could govern if they won. What would Humphrey's or Muskie's defense budget look like?

J: Nothing.

K: I think Vietnam is at this point more a pretext than the reason.

J: Let me check my situation and I'll have my secretary get hold of yours.

K: Excellent.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCONE
Ziegler/Kissinger

2:50 p.m. - 7/29/71

K: Hello.

Z: Hi, Henry. There is a story that I am almost embarrassed to ask you about. It is out of Vancouver. It quotes a Peking government official as saying that Tricia Cox spent a portion of her honeymoon in China.

never

K: I hope to God no. If so, I have never heard of it.

Z: Well, you know damn well you would have heard of it. How in the hell could she get there?

K: You know the resourcefulness of some of our people.

Z: There is no plan for her to go?

K: I think it would be a paltry exercise.

Z: It is a Peking story.

K: No, we know nothing about it.

Z: Well, I told them Tricia doesn't plan to go to China.

K: She doesn't plan to get married again either.

Z: At least during this marriage. OK.

By.

NARA

NARA, Dato

5/26

TELCORN

Secretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger

8:20 p.m., July 29, 1971

K: Bill, two things really. On this China thing -- you believe it requires a Presidential letter to Chiang Kai-shek?

R: It's not necessary but probably desirable in the sense -- maybe I can do it through the Ambassador tomorrow.

K: Should disengage him from it a little bit. So I don't have to worry about the letter.

R: Hold on just a second (phone ringing). Henry, I think maybe if I can get the Ambassador and give him the same thing as a message from me.

K: Think that would be a little better.

R: I think it reads well.

K: It reads so well if they release it, that's my concern.

R: Send it back to me. I have a meeting in the morning.

K: On the proposed public statement there are only a few delineations which tones down the "Two China" aspect but really I can give them to you on the phone or send them over to you.

R: Send them over in the morning.

K: It's a goddamn good statement.

R: Think we can stand on it.

K: They are not major changes. Just sentences here and there.

R: Okay.

K: I will send them over in the morning.

R: Marshall and Alex thought it might be a good idea but I can see the advantage of not getting the President active in Chiang Kai-shek.

K: Chiang Kai-shek won't like this but may use it to give him trouble.

R: I agree.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCORN

8:20 p.m., July 29, 1971 -- page 2

K: Let me see if there was anything else.

R: We are going to have difficulty on the Japanese thing.

K: You mean textiles? Can't have it! I don't understand -- I don't know what the Japanese did to Bell and Howell but they have had enough of a shock.

R: Think this is his major purpose in life for the Japanese but that's what we have done.

K: We've tried to get them into a close relationship with us but can't do it now.

R: Not this way -- it will be laughed out of court. I know the statute quite broad in scope but we would have a problem. Can you hold on again (phone ringing).

K: Yes.

R: Well, that's going to be a problem but we just can't permit that to happen. But if the President uses this device, he's going to have the whole damn country on his back.

K: It's Not the most meritorious one.

R: I'm glad you and I see eye to eye. Don't have many supporters. Peter Flanigan is going to be all right, he's going to support us.

K: Peter Flanigan is?

R: Yeah.

K: I will hold absolutely firm on that.

R: Mel is going to make out all right, that would be a great victory.

K: Glad about that.

By.

NARA, Dato 5/26

TELECON

9:35 a.m., July 30, 1971

R: Following up on our discussion last night, I am going to see
the Chinese Ambassador.

K: You get all the easy ones.

R: I thought I would use most of what was used in the draft
letter from the President to Chiang Kai-shek as an oral statement
which could be delivered from me to their Foreign Minister.

K: There was only one sentence -- no, I think it was all right.

R: If we don't do it, Chiang Kai-shek will get off a personal
letter to the President. This would forestall it -- if we put it in
conclusive terms that this has been decided.

K: On the second page, I think it went too far on the two-China
business, but I know why you did it.

R: Well, as long as we don't call it "two-China" -- that is our
argument: one China/one Taiwan.

K: The trick is to do it without saying it.

R: Did you send back the suggestions you had on that draft
statement?

K: It should be over there or on its way.

R: I briefed on the Hill yesterday, and I notice some of it is
leaking out. That's why I think we should go ahead on Monday.

K: I think that is right.

R: We will notify New Zealand and Japan today.

K: Have you heard about that latest rocket of Peterson's. He wants
to put on import sir tax and export rebate. I kept him from letting
Ziegler comment favorably. I wanted you to be aware of what was
cooking. I am opposing it until we have a full...

R: Why didn't he mention it last night?

Secretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger
9:35 a.m., July 30, 1971

By. NARA, Date 5/26

K: I'm not saying I am against it.

R: Can you hold a minute -- Fulbright is calling on the other line. [Upon returning to the call] I'm sorry but Fulbright asked me the other day, in view of our request that there be no speculation about the China trip, whether we thought it would be a good idea to vote the Mansfield-Scott Resolution. I wanted to pretend to think about it. He is going to a meeting at 10:00, so I told him we should go ahead with it. That is why I interrupted.

K: No, that is right.

R: You were talking about the Peterson thing.

K: The only way it came up today was to position Ziegler for the Press Briefing. I stopped it. We might have a talk on how to prevent this hip-shooting.

R: I don't know whether he is disassembling with me. He will talk to me one day and then something like this comes up. I don't understand it. Why didn't he mention it at the meeting last night.

K: Mills apparently made a statement yesterday recommending the same thing. The question is do we get ahead of him. I don't think we can hit the Japanese with something else without talking to them.

R: Does this require legislation?

K: Yes.

R: I think we should be more thoughtful about these things. This hip-shooting can be pretty dangerous.

K: I will make sure you get this if it hasn't gone.

R: There are two more things: I think we should talk about the Peterson operation and about the China trip. Let's do it next week if that is all right with you.

K: We should probably do it after you make your statement on Monday.

R: Yes. I have a lot of briefings. Let's set a date right now. Is the end of the day better for you.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCORN

Rogers/Kissinger

11:26 a.m. 7/30/71

K: I was just talking to the President about that suggestions of the Canadians and he is willing to go to Ottawa afterall.

R: That's a wise move.

K: It would have been too petty. So if you will work with them and we won't do anything from here.

R: Any idea of a time frame?

K: Flexible.

R: It's the right decision. I didn't want to press it.

K: You were tactful.

R: Politically you don't gain friends by making enemies. Connally feels you have to pick out an enemy and fight with him. But people want a leader and not fighting with everybody. That's the advantage with China. We are not fighting. My discussion with the Chinese went well. On Japan we are not going to do anything. The foreign minister is a leak so we are sending ______ to go in with an oral message. We will look at the changes you suggested. I have a couple of ideas and we will talk later. Once suggestion about Taiwan that Al make, we talked with him and he agreed it's make text not to talk about that.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCOM

Amb. Hilaly/Kissinger

11:32 a.m.

7/30/71

H: Yesterday I was wanting to ask you a very important question but it was latex and we are in a hurry. Sen. Kennedy wants to go to Pakistan, he is going to India, with two aides -- DeHahn and ______. As far as we are concerned, they are terrible. My people have been talking with them for weeks. They are violently anti-Pakistan and they will ferret out things and make it worse. He called this morning and said he wanted to bring Dr. Scrimsten and Dr. ______. I told him they were welcome but could we leave the aides. He said no. They will probably do the stories and make it worse. I think we should take the risk if saying you are welcome but your aides are anti-Pakistan and will hurt us. State is terrified and Farland says you cannot refuse a visa to a Senator.

K: But you're not, to the Senator.

H: I wondered if this would be a problem for you. I want you to think about it.

K: I will think about it.

H: Do let me know today. I must send an urgent telegram. He is too important to let him hang round. He is anxious to see if we will put in a word with the Chinese for him to go to China before President Nixon. He hasn't approached me yet. But other people. Have you tied that up -- I hope you did. Do you want us to do anything?

K: No.

H: I will just notify my government and that's all. I don't want to create more trouble for you.

K: For us, we don't care.

H: It would be a big mistake to let these two exx fellows go.

K: I don't think we will interfere with your judgment but I will check.

By. NARA, Dato 5/26

TELCONE

Mrs. Benson (President of League of Women Voters)/Kissinger

11:40 a.m. - July 30, 1971

B: Hello, Mr. Kissinger. How are you?

K: I am fine.

B: Mr. Kissinger, we are very concerned in the League of Women Voters about the opposition arising to Mr. Nixon's new policy in regard to the People's Republic and I am sure you know we have had now for about three years, a very strong position which supports what the President is doing. It occurred to me that perhaps there might be something we could do for what the President is doing. If there were some way in which we could give the President good strong support by having a small meeting with him and then some sort of statement might be issued to counteract the negative and build the positivet

K: Well, you would like to see the President?

B: Well, I would like to see the President, yes, I have always wanted to see the President. But the purpose really was to set off a new direction of reaction and perhaps stifle the kind of negative reaction that has been developing.

K: My problem is I can't dispose of the President's schedule.

B: We know you can't, but I wanted to see if you thought this was a good idea and if you thought it would be something the President would like to be involved in.

K: Well, why don't you let me check with Haldeman and see.

B: I am sure you know us. We are all over the country.

K: Yes, I know the name. I spoke at the national convention.

B: Yes, this was just an idea. Perhaps it wasn't a good one. By the way, we were very pleased about your trip. I think you are a spectacular person for having made that trip to Peking.

K: Aren't you nice. The support is a good idea. The President is going to ______ the middle of August and I don't know if it is possible before then.

B: I understand.

By NARA, Dato 5/26

TELCONE
Schreiber/Kissinger

1:07 p.m. 7/30/71

K: Are you coming through with the leading role?

S: I sent you the letter today. I know the President won't be there this weekend and you probably won't.

K: What are you talking about?

S: Mission to Peking.

K: Writing me?

S: Because we have talked. I am enclosing a letter from __________, our President. Tells what they want to do and how to do it. A letter of a page and a half which says we want to do it as a documentary. All the details and intrigues of what went on.

K: No female leading role?

S: No but you are in the picture because they don't want to do it without you.

K: The trouble is if someone pulls your leg it becomes reality.

S: If I am going to be your manager I can't have you go down as a Metternick. You have to be Metternick, Machivelli, and __________ all in one. Then in history they will say'you are pulling a Kissinger on me.'"

K: I will see your letter and take it up with Haldeman and the President.

S: Cyd Sheiburg is brilliant. He is the President. The quality of the product on TV has been high up to date and bright. He has helped on the drug thing. The White House was happy about it. He is a Democrat. Very liberal man. So he says it will help the party I am opposed to but I said he is not opposed to what is being done. And he agreed. He is a lovely man.

K: I have some people in the office. Can I call you this afternoon?

S: I will be in the house from 6:00. Maybe you should wait until you have read it.

K: 6:00 your time. I will call about 6:30 your time. I will be out around the middle of August and can talk about it then.

S: We want to do it before then with the writers so we can get it on the air in Dec. before the President goes to Peking.

K: I will call you.

By NARA, Dato

5/26

TelCon:3:35 - 7/30/71

Mr. Kissinger/
Senator Stennis

S: Hello Henry.

K: Senator, how are you. At least you are making me wait in quiet.
I said you would never refuse to take a call from the Assistant
to the President for National Security Affairs.

S: ... No, I was going to call you back before 4 o'clock. We were
in there busy working on the bill.

K: I knew you would (had to get off the phone for a minute at this part)

S: That is the way you want it. I will have a split conference vote and
take the responsibility and do it on my own.

K: What I have on my mind is this. It is obvious from many indications
we have Hanoi is willing to negotiate. I see that Congress is passing
the cease fire. The cease fire has been an essential part of our
program. We believe it can be obtained and to make that an issue
now is just not in the national interest and that is why I wanted to
appeal to you to go ahead with that amendment as it stood.

S: But . . the Mansfield amendment.

K: No the conference report that is now under discussion.

S: But I did not go back on any agreement.

K: No I mean this. I am not saying you went back on an agreement.

S: The original Mansfield amendment has an item that the President
should negotiate about a cease fire. You have no objection about
that.

K: No we want that. Then why take it out.

S: It doesn't dictate one bit. I have got to try and get it passed. I
know I have got to have the votes - 2/3s.

K: Do you think you can get it passed next week?

S: There is a chance. I believe if it lies there for the time we are

By. NARA, Dalo

5/26

gone the interest of opposing it - I think the bill will gain momentum
and if Mansfield . . . we can get it.

K: I would oppose it if I phrased that way.

S: I know we would have a better chance with him if we don't duplicate
that ceasefire. I have dealt with him many times trying to get some-
thing that will enable us to pass this bill and I know that it will greatly
help the cause that it not be included but just stick to it. I am pre-
pared to expand(?) on the one point where you have "and for". I
propose that you have three things there and all start with negotiate.

K: Our problem is this. We have a different one. You have to pass
that bill, but also when Hanoi is considering its position . . . this
will have a maximum degree of impact.

S: I believe it is necessary to pass the bill and I will issue a statement
whenever I can in line with your wish, but I feel it would be suicide
to yield on these points. It is not a matter of setting a date but
negotiating a date. It will be left unclear on this.

K: But what is the other point you wanted to talk to me about?

S: The other point is I believe that when it comes out, if the President
would just issue a statement or write a note that this section now
is his goal as well as ours and the Executive Branch and the Legis-
lative Branch are moving together.

K: I will tell you this on the quiet - the President is thinking of having
a press conference next Wednesday and we may be able to arrange
to have him say something to that effect.

S: That would be good. If he could do that and just say we know we
are on the . . .

K: Will you be available for the next ten minutes. Let me talk to
Clark MacGregor.

S: He has called me. I have not yet been able to return his call.

K: Don't return his call until I talk to him.

S: Well you know Henry I can talk to you.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCOM
Lipsman/Kissinger

4:55 p.m.

7/30/71

L: The reason I called is that I need some advice and consent (?). I came up with an idea of a client of min, Kay Stevens.

K: I know her name.

L: Very talented singer and dancer. She thought it would be a good idea to send entertainment to Box Red China and she would like to go. How could we arrange it?

K: It's a little pre-mature. Would be better later.

L: After the President comes back?

K: Yes.

L: I will call you then. She would like them to see what an American entertainer does. Broadway tunes and thinks that like that and thought it would be interesting. She has been gone to Vietnam with Bob Hope.

K: Call in a few months. I don't think there will be any possibility now but there will be some down the road.

L: Good. I will call after the President's trip. Thank you for returning my call.

K: Nice of you to call.

By. NARA, Date 5/26

TELCOM

Henry Brandon/Mr. Kissinger

7:35 p.m., July 30, 1971

B: I thought if I called you in the late afternoon it would be easier to get hold of you.

K: That's right.

B: I had an interesting talk in New York.

K: Oh, you mean Rockefeller. What did he have to say for himself?

B: I will tell you when we see each other. I understand you performed masterfully Wednesday night.

K: Oh, the John Diebold thing. Actually I have done better than that -- I know that makes me sound like a maniac but I don't think that was all that tough a session.

B: I can assure you this was said by people with high standards.

K: I must have been sick.

B: You were masterful and ______.

K: I rarely get accused of that.

B: Could I see you sometime next week?

K: Certainly. When are you going away?

B: I will be here; I'm worried that you will be going away to San Clemente between now and your final -- will it be the middle of August?

K: About the 16 or 17th of August.

B: You know if we could have two more sessions before that --

K: You sound like a psychiatrist! What is it 50 minutes each session?

B: (laughter) Slight collection.

K: Yeah. Why don't you call me; what do you want to do, lunch?

B: Whatever suits you best. Muffy will be away the latter part of next week, she's going up to Plymouth. Lunch or whatever you prefer.

By. NARA, Dato. 5/26

TELCORN

Henry Brandon/Mr. Kissinger

7:35 p.m., July 30, 1971 -- page 2

K: Let me call you for lunch or dinner. Better than doing it in the office.

B: If you want to make it in the evening, we can go to a cinema or something.

K: That would be an absolutely new experience for me, I haven't been to a movie except here in the White House and they show me nothing but war movies and musicals. I have not been in a paying movie in Washington since I came down here.

B: You need to try it.

K: What did you discuss with Rockefeller, his views or my views?

B: His views about you.

K: Do you think he is accurate?

B: Yes. You know certain things interested me -- whether he considered you a Republican or not.

K: What did he say?

B: "You know I never asked him, I don't know; it doesn't matter to me."

K: That's absolutely true. That never came up in our discussions.

B: We went on and talked a little bit about the President and your relationship with him and your relationship with him (Rockefeller).

K: What did he say about the President?

B: Wasn't as favorable as that speech in Denver.

K: I don't know what he said; I know what he thinks.

B: Tell you the next time I see you. I had a little chat with Nancy. She is a lovely girl and marvelous.

K: She's very sensitive and a fine person. What evenings are you not free next week?

B: We haven't much on. You can choose most any evening. We are going away for the weekend on Saturday. Muffy will be away on Thursday and Friday but --

By. NARA, Date 5/26

TELCORN

Henry Brandon/Mr. Kissinger

7:35 p.m., July 30, 1971 -- page 3

K: May I call you first thing Monday morning and make a suggestion. Monday or Tuesday night, I can't do it Wednesday.

B: Monday or Tuesday night. Well, I will put a question mark.

K: I will be fascinated to learn what you found out in New York. Do you think he understands what our foreign policy is?

B: No, I don't think so. I think you ought to have a session with him.

K: He has to work at things. He just doesn't work at things now. Okay, Henry.

by to San Clemente
& August?

that --

each session?

rey

Sits you best. I am.

She's going up to Plymouth.