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LARRY KING LIVE Transcript #1584

November 6, 1995

Interview with Yasser Arafat

LARRY KING: Israel says goodbye to a fallen son. Tonight, an exclusive interview with Yitzhak Rabin's partner in peace, Yasser Arafat. And a diplomat who knew the Prime Minister as few others did, Henry Kissinger, just ahead on *Larry King Live*.

He was a legendary war hero paved the way for peace in the Middle East. Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was laid to rest with full military honors on a Jerusalem hilltop today. As Israelis bid farewell to their leader, many Palestinians watched the funeral from a distance. Among them, Yasser Arafat who was visibly upset by the loss of a man he called a friend and a partner.

Earlier today, I talked to Yasser Arafat from his headquarters in Gaza and I asked him if he was sorry that he hadn't attended the funeral?

YASSER ARAFAT, Pres. Palestinian Authority: Definitely. I was trying from yesterday to have this opportunity and to have this chance to say to my friends and my partner, "Prime Minister Rabin, farewell." But, for their interior security affairs, they didn't give me this chance.

LARRY KING: Was it Israel that suggested that you do not come?

YASSER ARAFAT: Yes, for security affairs.

LARRY KING: Did you understand that suggestion?

YASSER ARAFAT: Yes, I can. I understood completely. I know that they are after this awful crime, they have some— some problems. And I understood completely. I also am in contact with Mr. Peres and with others and I understood completely their reasons.

LARRY KING: You know, the last time we were together was on June 8th, when you were on this program with King Hussein and with Prime Minister Rabin. I remember that night of optimism. Have you— had the two of you become friends?

YASSER ARAFAT: You know that we are more than friends, we are partners.

LARRY KING: How did that develop?

YASSER ARAFAT: The moment we had decided to start talking of peace, everything has been changed. And the step by step, I can't say that it came suddenly, but this had— was in need of more time, more understood between both of us— understanding between both of us. And during the continuous contact, personally through the phone, through the meetings, through the international occasions, like the United Nations, like the Nobel Prize, like the meeting that took place, the last one was the meeting that took place in Amman for the economic— during the economic conference.

LARRY KING: Sot it was growing?

YASSER ARAFAT: And we have to say that we felt each others bravery and we shake our hands bravely.

LARRY KING: What were your thoughts as you watched that dramatic funeral today?

YASSER ARAFAT: It was very painful for me. Because, especially when I was looking to my sister, Mrs. Rabin. For me, it was very difficult.

LARRY KING: Especially the granddaughter. I would imagine that was a very poignant moment.

YASSER ARAFAT: Definitely. All his family. His wife, and his daughter and all his family.

LARRY KING: Now, both of you were fighters. He was a fighter, you were a fighter, you fought against each other. There was killing hanging all around you, yet you grew to like him and now he dies a horrible death. Do you fear— are your fears increased for your own safety?

YASSER ARAFAT: You know that I have faced the same very critical situation from the beginning. And I am still facing it.

LARRY KING: Do you worry more now? You know, he had his right wing, you have your right wing.

YASSER ARAFAT: But you know, as I have mentioned, as I have mentioned to you before, I am a strong believer in God. And no one can escape from his destiny.

LARRY KING: So, in other words, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen, you don't worry about it.

YASSER ARAFAT: No doubt of it.

LARRY KING: Do you— are you concerned with the security in Israel based on the fact that this man got through so easily to shoot him?

YASSER ARAFAT: I can't—I can't give any— I haven't the right to interfere into their interior affairs. But they happen to be— they should be more careful where— especially around their Prime Minister. Especially as he had received some threats before.

LARRY KING: What about the process now?

YASSER ARAFAT: From— from other Israeli groups.

LARRY KING: He had— you know that he had received threats earlier.

YASSER ARAFAT: Yes, one time— once, for example, once they had rushed his car while he was inside the car.

LARRY KING: Now what, Mr. Chairman? Are you confident that you and Mr. Peres and the others can go forward with the peace process?

YASSER ARAFAT: We hope that will continue in this attitude. And— but we are in need of the— of President Clinton's support, of President Yeltsin's support, as they are the co-sponsors, and also the support of President Mubarak, who helped us in further negotiations. And also all the other friendly and brotherly leaders everywhere in the Arab world, and in Europe, in the whole— in Japan, and in China, in France and in Spain, in Portugal, Greece, and in Britain. All over the world. And the non-aligned movement in the Islamic countries, and everywhere in Latin American countries, we are in need of their support. Because the peace is not only a Palestinian need. It is a Palestinian need, an Israeli need and an international need. And what has happened again, to my friend, my

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The Minister Rabin proves that.

**LARRY KING:** Are you optimistic?

**YASSER ARAFAT:** It is very difficult to ask me this question, in this very difficult circumstances, when I am saying farewell to one—to my partner and my friend. But I hope—I am a strong believer in God. This is— this is what I am hoping, that God will help us to continue our very difficult march, and our very difficult peace process.

**LARRY KING:** And finally, Mr. Chairman, what would you like to say to the world about your late friend, Mr. Rabin?

**YASSER ARAFAT:** He was a brave man during war, and he was a brave man during peace. And for that we have called it the peace of the brave.

**LARRY KING:** You will miss him?

**YASSER ARAFAT:** Definitely.

**LARRY KING:** And one other thing: how do you get along with Mr. Peres?

**YASSER ARAFAT:** I have a very good and strong relation with his excellency. And I have—I wish him success and good luck.

**LARRY KING:** When we return, a conversation held just a short time ago, of historic proportions, held with Henry Kissinger, the former Secretary of State, describing his loss in his friend Yitzhak Rabin.

Stay tuned.

(Commercial break)

## Interview with Henry Kissinger

**LARRY KING:** Welcome back to Larry King Live on this historic night for many reasons. We want to thank our friends and partners at Shanghai TV, because this portion of Larry King Live, the first broadcast ever from Shanghai TV through to the United States, via satellite, and CNN, and our guest is Dr. Henry Kissinger. We thank you very much for joining us.

What are you doing in Shanghai?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** former U.S. Secretary of State: I am giving a speech this afternoon.

**LARRY KING:** What is that city like?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** Well, it's extraordinary. I was here in 1971 for the first time, and there was only one hotel that one could stay in and there was no traffic and no shops and now it, it looks like Hong Kong did 15 years ago. Tremendous traffic, tremendous activity, extraordinary progress, world class hotels and it's an exciting city.

**LARRY KING:** Dr. Kissinger, yesterday, in the interview we saw with Judy Woodruff on CNN, in all of the years I have known you and the years before just watching you, I have never seen you that emotional. And I've seen you talk after funerals and the deaths of leaders. Why?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** Well, Yitzhak Rabin and I, we go back a long time. I met him for the first time in 1967, right after the Six Day War. I was a young professor and he had just been Chief of Staff, and we were—he invited me to give a speech to—at the Defense College in Tel Aviv. We walked through the streets of Tel Aviv and people came up to him and shook his hand, just touched him. He was a

very shy man and he sort of pretended that he didn't care. He thought what he had done was his duty. Then he was Ambassador in Washington and we met almost every weekend, for long discussions. Because the relations between Israel and the United States is bound to be complicated. Israel is a little country, the widest distance in all of Palestine is 50 kilometers wide—50 miles wide. And two people who have to co-exist on that territory. And American is a continental country which has never known adamant neighbors. And Rabin understood which is not always understood by Israelis, that the only way Israel could gain continued American support is to embed its concerns into American interests and not simply by asking for concessions. And he was willing to spend a lot of time on that, and I got to know him very well, and I know what he— so this was a very personal tragedy. And over the years—

**LARRY KING:** He was very popular with—

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** —I've—I've seen him develop, because he hated to talk to Arafat, and he hated the idea, when I first met him, he—he did not want to permit American to talk to any PLO person. And yet, at the end of his life, the last time I saw him which was about two weeks ago, he felt that he had worked out a glimmer of co-existence and he was going to get there.

**LARRY KING:** We interviewed Yasser Arafat right before you, he was just on a few minutes ago, and he said that that friendship with Rabin was growing, he was getting closer—they were getting closer all the time, of not just respect but a friendship was growing. Does that surprise you?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** Well, it would have surprised me three years ago, it would have surprised me even on the day that Rabin and Yasser Arafat signed the agreement, because I talked to Rabin the day before, and he did not know whether he could bring himself to shake hands with Arafat and I am not even sure he knew it when he stepped up on that platform, whether he could bring himself—whether he could bring himself to do it. It does not surprise me because when I talked to Rabin last, about two weeks ago, he spoke to me about how they were going to work out a practical means of co-existence and how he thought that Arafat would try to educate the Palestinians in the needs for co-existence. And Rabin was not a soft man. And he was not a man who was given to leaps of faith. And so I know he meant it and it must have been true, because he was not easily fooled.

**LARRY KING:** Out of bad can come good. Do you think in a kind of perverse ways this assassination, as the assassination of John Kennedy led to the Great Society and the election of Lyndon Johnson, this assassination might hasten the peace movement?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** Well, of course one could also argue that the assassination of Kennedy led to great bitterness and divisions in America in the long run, because many idealists felt that their spokesman had been assassinated.

**LARRY KING:** But in this matter?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** So a lot depends now on what

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interpretation is put on it. I would actually add one other thing. I don't think that Rabin thought speed was the essence of the peace process. I think Rabin believed, especially with the Palestinians, that the way they were going, city by city and road by road enabled the Arabs and the Jews to learn what it meant to live together. One, maintaining security and the other gaining dignity. So that speed is not as important as direction.

**LARRY KING:** Let me—

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** And if they can—

**LARRY KING:** Hold it. Let me get one break, Dr. Kissinger, we will come right back.

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** Yes.

**LARRY KING:** Again, on this historic evening, through the cooperation of the friends and partners of Shanghai TV, we're getting a direct interview from Shanghai to the United States via our CNN satellites. And the Shanghai satellites and the cooperation of the skies in the two countries to bring you this talk with Dr. Kissinger.

Still to come, Ambassador Itamar Rabinovich, the Israeli Ambassador to the United States. We will be right back.

[Commercial break]

**LARRY KING:** We're back on *Larry King Live* with Dr. Henry Kissinger, from Shanghai. He's been in the Orient, he will be back in the United States in about a week. You've been quoted as saying that, I am going to quote you exactly here: "Nobody understood the peace process better than Rabin." Does that include Shimon Peres?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** I would say that includes Shimon Peres, too. Shimon Peres deserves enormous credit for the inspiration and courage with which he developed—with which he helped forge the original PLO agreement. But Rabin had the enormous capacity to combine vision with a strategic sense of how you reach your goals. Now, Shimon did not have to do that yet. Shimon—it was Rabin who supplied that element. And saying up to now that Rabin had that sense, does not mean that Peres will not reach it. And one can only wish Peres every good luck and every success.

**LARRY KING:** Were you encouraged by what you heard at the funeral?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** I was in transit through part of the time, but I heard some of the speeches. I was deeply moved by King Hussein's speech.

**LARRY KING:** Yeah.

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** Which was an extraordinary testament. And of course the granddaughter. I thought the whole ceremony was a vindication of what Rabin was trying to do in this sense: Rabin understood, as not all of his compatriots do, that the accumulation of military power would not be, could not be the sole guarantee of Israel's existence. That he had to build Israel into the international community and widen its acceptance. And the presence of an Egyptian president, a Jordanian King, a Russian Prime Minister, the heads of governments, the President of France, the Prince of Wales, and the Prime Minister of England, the German Chancellor and I don't

want to mention them all, showed a degree of— in Jerusalem, showed a degree of international acceptance of Israel which is absolutely historic, and which could never have been achieved except for the policy of reaching out and understanding the requirements of the political as well as the military requirements. And Rabin was not a starry eyed idealist. He did not ever want to bet Israel's future on international acceptance alone, but he did achieve both.

**LARRY KING:** President Clinton—

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** Security and acceptance.

**LARRY KING:** President Clinton is getting plaudits all the way around today, as well. Did you hear his speech?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** I heard his speech and it was also very touching.

**LARRY KING:** The— last night, former Secretary Baker, I know a friend of yours, said that one of the keys to all of this has been the bipartisan approach to this in the United States, both Republican and Democrat presidents and House and Senate leadership have been for this for a long time. This is a combined production toward peace. Do you agree?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** I agree that the peace process in the Middle East has been carried out by administrations of both parties, and culminated by presidents of both parties and its strength is its bipartisanship.

**LARRY KING:** Now, the missing of Yitzhak Rabin, obviously it moved you a great deal, we discussed that earlier and we saw you yesterday. What's his legacy going to be? What are they going to say in this history books?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** Well, they are going to say that in a way, Yitzhak Rabin's evolution paralleled the evolution of his own society. He started out very suspicious of the peace process, he was a military man who originally believed that military power was the only requirement for Israel's security. And he grew in stature with every passing year, and he grew in wisdom. And his legacy will be to teach that to achieve plain objectives you need both vision and patience. You need both an idea and a strategy and he had the strength to put it together and to walk that road alone. He, in our last conversation, about two weeks ago, he commented wryly about how much bitterness had developed about territories, that, after all had been conquered when he was Chief of Staff, and how the conquest wasn't the end of the enterprise but the political outcome and the peace that one was trying to strive for. And I think he has set a direction which cannot really be reversed. That has to be understood.

**LARRY KING:** As—

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** It is irreversible.

**LARRY KING:** As President Clinton said, "A good and a great man." Right?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** He was a remarkable, good and great man.

**LARRY KING:** One other thing on the domestic front, since everybody is talking about it, we know that Dr. Kissinger must have a thought, and I know you know him well, should Colin Powell come into the political wars.

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** I know Colin Powell, and I think he is an outstanding individual who will perform

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great services for his country in some capacity. Whether to enter political elective office, that is something that depends on so many factors that I cannot judge. But I know one thing:

**LARRY KING:** As you know him—as you know him as a man—

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** —he will perform great services for our country.

**LARRY KING:** As you know him as a man, would he, if he went for the office, a good president-type?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** I think he would be an excellent president.

**LARRY KING:** Because of leadership ability?

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** He has leadership, he has experience, and he has— and he has dedication.

**LARRY KING:** We will see you back home. Thank you very much for this, sharing this historic experience with us from Shanghai, to the United States via CNN.

**Dr. HENRY KISSINGER:** Thank you for asking me.

**LARRY KING:** Dr. Henry Kissinger. And again, we thank the friends and partners at Shanghai television.

When we come back, the Israeli Ambassador to the United States, Itamar Rabinovich. And by the way, Benjamin Netanyahu, we spoke with him earlier today, will be with us tomorrow night, the leader of the Likud. He holds a very important position and story in the rest of this saga.

We will be right back.

[Commercial break]

## Interview with Itamar Rabinovich

**LARRY KING:** Welcome back to *Larry King Live*, we are joined now by Ambassador Itamar Rabinovich, the Israeli Ambassador to the United States. He joins us from Jerusalem, where it is of course, early in the morning on Tuesday. Ambassador Rabinovich attended the funeral.

Prime Minister Rabin was due to come to Boston in about 10 days, was he not?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** Israeli Ambassador to the United States: Yes, he was to come to address the General Assembly of the Jewish Federation of North America in the middle of November.

**LARRY KING:** In fact I am going to emcee that event and it is still going on and we will do it as a memorial to him.

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** Unfortunately, it has turned into a memorial, but it was to be a gala appearance and a gala performance, and the last— one of the very last conversations he and I had had to do with his participation on the evening that you were going to emcee. And that you still are.

**LARRY KING:** I had gotten very—I had gotten very close to him. He was an extraordinary person. He was a great friend, was he not? He's not just a leader.

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** He was a man who was a leader to the many and a friend to the few, and I had the privilege of being a member of that small circle, and I did enjoy that warm and edifying friendship.

**LARRY KING:** What was the funeral like for you today?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** It was a wrenching appearance.

Dr. Kissinger mentioned earlier the granddaughter. Her eulogy was really wrenching. But the whole experience was very moving and wrenching emotionally. But at the same time, we all said that it was a deserving memorial to him and it was also an indication that the change that Israel's position internationally has undergone in the past few years.

**LARRY KING:** One would never have thought we would see that many heads of state at a funeral of a Jewish leader in Israel, right?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** In Israel and in Jerusalem. The fact that it was held in Jerusalem, and the fact that all of these heads of state and governments, including Arab heads of governments, did come to Jerusalem, was very significant in itself.

**LARRY KING:** In his life, did he change? Did he grow from warrior to peacemaker, or was it all part of the same process?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** No, there was a change, there was an evolution there was a growth. Not just from warrior to peacemaker, he was also a national leader and he was Prime Minister twice. He was Prime Minister in the mid-1970s and he was a Prime Minister in the past three years or so, and there was a very marked change between his performance as a national leader the first time around and this time.

**LARRY KING:** Mr. Ambassador, rhetoric often brings action. After all, rhetoric produces action, that is one of its purposes. Do you think rhetoric on the far right will be toned down now? After this tragedy?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** Yes, the rhetoric produces action and action breeds rhetoric and rhetoric can also be positive.

**LARRY KING:** Right.

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** I think there is a quest in Israel for some moderating, edifying rhetoric, and the sense is there. And it comes from the public at large and we all hope and expect that the political leadership and those who are active politically, will listen to the voice of the people as it has been articulated in the past few days.

**LARRY KING:** Hopefully, we are not going to hear talk of traitor anymore?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** I expect that in the next few days, the next few weeks, we will not, and there will be a great deal of remorse. And there has been some of that and there has been some encouraging rhetoric, from the moderate position to Mr. Rabin. What we hope and pray for is that this will not be a matter of a few days, a perfunctory remorse, but that this will last through weeks and months and will become part of a new political landscape in the domestic politics of Israel.

**LARRY KING:** President Clinton said today that he had gotten a commitment from Mr. Netanyahu, the head of the opposition party, that the Likud would support the peace process. Mr. Netanyahu will be on this program tomorrow night, are you encouraged by that?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** I am encouraged by that. I am encouraged by the fact that the Likud has indicated that they will support the formation of the successive government.

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ment by Mr. Peres. That they feel that the war or the
battle for Israel's political future ought to be fought in the
ballot box in about a year for now. And change ought not
come as a result of an assassin's bullet. So these begin-
ings are very auspicious and we very much hope that they
will continue in the same vein.

**LARRY KING:** Now, I know you have negotiated per-
sonally with Syria, you were one of the key people in those
negotiations. Syria— Mr. Assad did not attend today, but
they sent an encouraging message, did they not?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** They sounded very factual. One thing has been glaringly missing from the Israeli-Syrian negotiations. And that was a warm, human, humane element coming from Damascus. We know that peacemaking involves reconciliation and for reconciliation to take place a human touch has to be created between two peoples. Much of that has not been coming from Damascus. What has been coming from Damascus during the last few days, was not negative, but the warmth and the humanity was still absent from that rhetoric.

**LARRY KING:** We will be right back with Ambassador Itamar Rabinovich, the Israeli Ambassador to the United States. We will include your phone calls. He is coming to use live from Jerusalem.

Benjamin Netanyahu will be with us tomorrow night. By the way, a major program, next Monday — we mentioned Norman Schwarzkopf, will deal with prostate cancer. Michael Milken will be with us, so too will Michael Korda of Simon and Schuster, and General Schwarzkopf, victims all of that disease.

When we come back, your phone calls to the Ambas-
sador. Don't go away.

PRIME MINISTER RABIN'S GRAND-
DAUGHTER: We below, remain constant in our
love toward you. And may the God of Israel, that
keeps over all of us, will keep you in the heavens, as
you merit, I am with you forever.

[Commercial break]

We're back on *Larry King Live* with Ambassador Itamar Rabinovich the Israeli Ambassador to the United States.

Has this entered your mind, the fear of possible loss of
your leaders through the— through the radical right?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** That certainly can— that certainly can be the—that can certainly be the case. And I think the lesson that Israelis across the spectrum felt, that rhetoric has to be moderated. Not only as a result of this, but very much as a result of this.

**LARRY KING:** So certainly you had thought that that could be an outcome of all of this?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** Yes, there is a tremendous quest for healing and a closing of ranks, in the Israeli public and in the Israeli body politic. And we very much hope that this doesn't just remain a sentiment, but that the political leadership on both sides of the aisle will know how to translate all of this into a real difference in the political atmosphere and in the political culture.

**LARRY KING:** Boca Raton, Florida, as we go to calls for Ambassador Rabinovich, hello?

**1st CALLER, (Boca Raton, Florida):** Hello, Larry. For the Ambassador, with only a one vote plurality in the Knesset, the current coalition government, how will the Labor party govern effectively or do you foresee the need for early elections?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** No, we do not see the need for early elections. A majority is a majority in a parliamentary democracy. There is going to be an election in about a year from now. Also do bear in mind that Mr. Peres will now be forming a new government, and there is an opportunity for the opposition or at least some of the opposition party to join the new coalition and to affect policies from within, so it doesn't have to remain a majority of one. It is an opportunity and a challenge for everybody to try to broaden the base of the Israeli government.

**LARRY KING:** There is the period of mourning, of grieving, the sitting, the 30 days is it not, officially?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** There is a 30 day period and there is a 7 day period. The actual business of politics will wait 7 days for the conclusion of this 7 day period, and President Weissman will begin the process of consultations in asking, as everybody expects, Mr. Peres to form a new government, in a period beginning 7 days from now.

**LARRY KING:** So the nation sits shiva so to speak, right?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** So to speak not only in a very remote symbolic way, but the sorrow, the grief, the mourning are apparent all over the country.

**LARRY KING:** Back to the calls. Geneva, Switzerland. Hello?

**2nd CALLER, [Geneva, Switzerland]:** Yes, hello, Larry.

**LARRY KING:** Hi.

**2nd CALLER:** I am glad to watch you now. It's hard for me being a citizen from the Middle East, being as well, from Saudi Arabia, specifically, to see a towering man, a man who gave himself for peace for it to end this way.

**LARRY KING:** Do you have a question?

**2nd CALLER:** In his person he died, but in his soul he will live forever. Is the presence of this GCC, was it enough for the Israeli people to believe that we believe in this?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** Yes, Larry, but GCC, the caller meant the Gulf Cooperation Council—

**LARRY KING:** Yes.

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** —which is the organization of the Gulf countries, and Saudi Arabia is the most important, single most important country there. And of course there was participation from Qatar and from Oman. This was very important for Israelis who need to feel that peace is not only an abstract phenomenon but that it needs a new bridge between peoples. And the very fact that we do get a call from a Saudi, and we do hear these sentiments, it is of great importance to all of us Israelis and I would ask the caller and I would ask other Saudis to continue in the same vein.

**LARRY KING:** We will be right back with Ambassador Rabinovich and more of your phone calls. Benjamin Netanyahu the leader of the Likud tomorrow night. also live from Jerusalem.

We will be right back.

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[Commercial break]

**LARRY KING:** There is concern, Ambassador Rabinovich, about security. This man, we have learned, was not unknown to Israel, he had upset other meetings, he had made appearances where the Prime Minister had spoken, who did he get through?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** This is something that the security authorities and the government as a whole are looking at very, very closely. But there is on lesson, that, when you have a determined person willing to give up his or her life, in order to kill a political leader it is very, very difficult to stop him. Physically speaking, we are reminded of the unsuccessful attempt on President Reagan, in front of the Washington Hilton with the heavy protection that the President had. And of course, lessons will be drawn and I think security will be tightened in Israel and I am sure in other places as well, but we will always have to bear in mind that political leaders, protected as they will be, in contested circumstances will continue to know that they would be taking a personal, en enormous personal risk, in trying to lead their nations through controversial times.

**LARRY KING:** Chairman Arafat, who was with us earlier, is a fatalist about it. One would imagine that protection around him has increased.

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** He did. And there is another question. It is a question of a style of leadership. Of course a leader can be better protected if he or she do not interact with the people. If one isolates oneself in a presidential palace or behind walls, one is very well protected. But in a democracy when a leader has to interact with the people and give the people the sense that the leader is a leader of flesh and blood then one exposes oneself and that is a danger that we in democracies will have to live with.

**LARRY KING:** And you will agree that when you— when we thought of the word security, Israel was considered one of the world leaders in that, right?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** Unfortunately—

**LARRY KING:** With the Mossad—

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** Sorry. Unfortunately we have been tested in that. And I think we have armed and prepared ourselves for an external threat. The notion that one of our own would kill a political leader that we will have the first such political assassination in our history, is chilling for all of us.

**LARRY KING:** Paris, France, for Ambassador Rabinovich. Hello?

**4th CALLER, [Paris, France]:** Yes, hello. Good evening.

**LARRY KING:** Hi.

**4th CALLER:** My condolences and my deepest regards from an Egyptian citizen, and my question is who will take the first step, the Israelis or the Syrians, to go on with the peace talks.

**LARRY KING:** Good question.

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** The answer is neither. The first step will be taken by the United States. The Syrian-Israeli negotiations have been a three-way negotiation. The Syrians have insisted that they don't, not deal directly

with us, that they deal with us, at least part of the time, through the United States. I myself have had the privilege of being a negotiator with the Syrians, and have negotiated directly with Syrians, but always in the presence of an American or a diplomat or statesman in the room. And the United States in order to continue — or to try to continue, the negotiations between Israel and Syria, will probably take the lead and take the first steps.

**LARRY KING:** We will be back with our remaining moments with Ambassador Rabinovich on *Larry King Live*, right after this.

[Commercial break]

**LARRY KING:** We go to Manila, the Philippines, for Ambassador Rabinovich, hello?

**5th CALLER, [Manila, Philippines]:** Hello, Larry, it's Logan, in the Philippines.

**LARRY KING:** Hi. Yes, sir.

**5th CALLER:** Listen, I was wondering, I wanted to ask your guest, does he— Hello?

**LARRY KING:** Yes, go ahead. Go ahead.

**5th CALLER:** Ambassador, yes, I was wondering if he felt that this assassination the people who are against the peace movement, if they will use this as— as a reason to launch terrorist attacks?

**LARRY KING:** Yeah, do you think we might see terrorism occur in reverse here? In other words, is it going to increase?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** My answer is no. I think that this very act sent a shock wave. The reaction is quite the contrary. There is a reticence, there is a going back away from violence. And certainly for the short range and what we all hope, and what we will undertake to do is to try to sustain this not only as a short range phenomenon, but something that will stay with us for a meaningful period of time.

**LARRY KING:** Will I be seeing you in Boston?

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** Yes, you will be seeing me in Boston. It will be a much sadder occasion—

**LARRY KING:** Much.

**ITAMAR RABINOVICH:** —than it would have been and should have been but I am looking forward, Larry, to seeing you in Boston.

**LARRY KING:** Me too. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. Thank you very much. Safe trip home. Ambassador Itamar Rabinovich, the Israeli Ambassador to the United States. Earlier Yasser Arafat, and from Shanghai Television, Dr. Henry Kissinger. Among the guests tomorrow night, Benjamin Netanyahu, he is the leader of the Likud, he will have much to say about where goest Israel now. He will come to us live from Jerusalem, with your phone calls.

Thanks very much for joining us on this very sad day in world history. Good night.

**BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, Likud Party:** The responsibility of political leadership is to say to these extremists you are not part of us. I did that before, I am doing it today: they are not part of us, we are not part of them.

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