Draft

Message for Christopher Hitchens from William D. Rogers:

The electronic message you sent to Jessee Incao of 7 January has come to hand.

You say you wish to pose "a series of questions" to Dr. Kissinger. You offer to "pay any price" for answers. You suggest that whether the answers are forthcoming might turn on Dr. Kissinger's "pecuniary need." You say that you and Harper's "stand ready to consider any reasonable proposal for emolument from your /Dr. Kissinger's/ side." And you even go so far as to propose a "'ballpark' fee". These are your words.

You are right to characterize this as "vulgar." It is bad enough for a journalist to buy information from a witness. Here, you ask the very victim of your attacks to accept money from you for testimony you then propose to use against him.

This is breathtaking. It is, as well, beyond professional propriety and beneath contempt. Your offer says all that needs saying about where you strike the journalistic balance between mercenary considerations and the truth.

Particularly so when, as it now appears, pace your request and my earlier suggestion that you give me your questions for Dr. Kissinger, Harper's already has a vicious attack by you on Dr. Kissinger in print and beyond the possibility of change.

No honorable person could lend himself to your purposes in these circumstances.

Cc: Harper's

JAN 10 2001

Jessee Incao

From: William_Rogers@aporter.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:25 PM
To: jessee.incao@kainy.org
Subject: Information for Dr. Kissinger

MAR 0 1 2001

----------------- Forwarded by William Rogers/Atty/DC/ArnoldAndPorter on
02/28/2001 04:20 PM -----------------

Richard Palmer

02/28/2001 04:07 PM

To: William Rogers/Atty/DC/ArnoldAndPorter@APORTER
cc:
Subject: kissinger

CNBC News Transcripts, February 6, 2001

Copyright 2001 CNBC, Inc.

CNBC News Transcripts

SHOW: HARDBALL WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS (8:00 PM ET)

February 5, 2001, Monday

LENGTH: 2511 words

HEADLINE: CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS DISCUSSES THE NEW BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND HIS RECENT ARTICLE ABOUT HENRY KISSINGER IN HARPER'S MAGAZINE

ANCHORS: CHRIS MATTHEWS

BODY:
CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:

Joining me now is the--Vanity Fair's Christopher Hitchens. Hitchens is the author of the book, "No One Left To Lie To: The Values of the Worst Family." I think we know which that is. In a moment, we're going to be talking about your latest, Christopher's piece in Harper's Magazine, The Case Against Henry Kissinger. This is your title, the making of a war criminal.

First, let's talk about the news of the day. Like the way things are set up here? Let's talk about the news of the day. The news of the day, once again, is the Clinton family in retreat, not in a religious retreat, but moving on, so to speak, taking some furniture with them. Their latest disclaimer is no, we didn't take anything that wasn't--we weren't allowed to take with us, but inc--unfortunately for them, some of what they took was historical artifacts, historical furniture which was not meant for them. This on top of the $ 750,000 penthouse he's bil--he's getting equipped at 57th Street in New York, in midtown Manhattan. The $ 190,000 in gifts they took and now they're going to give back almost half of that. What else? What am I missing here? The m--the pardon of

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Marc Rich, which the president now explains he did...

Mr. CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS (Vanity Fair): ... (Unintelligible).

MATTHEWS: ...it in concert with the Justice Department, rather than in--just in concert with his former lawyer, Jack Quinn. What do you make of all this?

Mr. HITCHENS: Well, I love the thing about the catalog today when they said, 'Well, if--if we took a lot of stuff that should have been nailed down because it belongs to the people of the United States of America and to its Executive Mansion, if by any chance we uprooted that stuff that was nailed down and carried it away with us, it was a catalog mistake, catalog error.' I l--I loved--I--at last we have a word for it. We have a word for the way in which they've always confused public and private property from the moment that they moved in. They thought the Oval Office was theirs to rent to fat cats for a hot sheet hotel.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

Mr. HITCHENS: And they thought the White House public rooms were free for their use to rent for expensive coffees with people like Mr. Roger Tamraz, who, if you remember at all, 'Nice to see you again, Mr. Tamraz,' says Clinton, recognizing him, meeting him more often than he's met any members of his Cabinet.

MATTHEWS: Tell me who Roger Tamraz is, just for familiarity.

Mr. HITCHENS: This is a man--a man--he's a man--let me be careful with my choice of words. He's a man who's considered a bit of an outsider in the Lebanese-Beirut business community.

MATTHEWS: I see.

Mr. HITCHENS: And as if Washington people wanted to ask him a few questions about this and that. 'Well, come on in. You know, you've got some money, come here. Is it dirty money? Why not?' Taking ba--thick envelopes from James Riady in the--in the back of the presidential limousine and then saying, 'Yeah, I remember taking the money, but I can't remember what it was for.'

MATTHEWS: Right.

Mr. HITCHENS: All the way through and--and all the time and on everything, he fought the law and--and he won.

MATTHEWS: And Hillary was saying that she was present at the meeting...

Mr. HITCHENS: He fou--he fought the law and he won.

MATTHEWS: ...when the deal was struck on the--on votes and...

Mr. HITCHENS: And she fought the law and she won.

MATTHEWS: ...on votes and--and clemencies in New York, but not aware that she had a role to play in that meeting she happened to be sitting at.

Mr. HITCHENS: A--a pair of cheap and--and nasty and--crooks with no class of any kind at all. And now, people are saying--I never knew what--how you say--pronounce this word, D-U-H, that you see all over the place. I would think it must be...

MATTHEWS: Duh.

Mr. HITCHENS: ...duh. I think that must be it because...

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MATTHEWS: I think that's a commentary.

Mr. HITCHENS: ...I keep running into people who say, 'Hey, look--what--you don't think there could have been a pair of, you know, real rip-off merchants and shake-down artists in the White House all this time, do you?' And I want to say, well, whatever D-U-H is, that's what I think about that.

MATTHEWS: How is New York--your magazine is centered in New York and it represents many of the values of New York, poshness, youn--youth, beauty...

Mr. HITCHENS: There's a few...

MATTHEWS: ...mainly money. But...

Mr. HITCHENS: ...values I bought here myself, I'd like to think.

MATTHEWS: Very superficial existences and those kinds of things. How will theFACTS be received up there by your readership, the Vanity Fair crowd?

Mr. HITCHENS: I have no idea. I--I don't mix...

MATTHEWS: Will they be received into their homes and then--and made--made
friendly?

Mr. HITCHENS: ...in youthful or beautiful circles, but I--I know what it would be if it was in--I--I should doubt it now, because this is so tacky and if it has--if I--anything I can write or say has anything to do with it, no, they will not be received in decent society.

MATTHEWS: I mean, will--will Kenny Carlisle Hart and the other patrons of New York be receiving theFACTS?

Mr. HITCHENS: But then I tried that in--I--I tried that in--I tried that in
Washington and it didn't work. I mean, you know, they--they carried it all
before them until recently. I think now people are sick of it.

MATTHEWS: Let's talk about the new crowd which is the old money crowd, which is the Bush family. They're back. The restoration is now in effect. Lots of conviviality, amiability, lots of reaching across the aisle, visiting Democratic retreats--Democratic retreats...

Mr. HITCHENS: Yeah.

MATTHEWS: ...and all that sort of thing, Ted Kennedy, people like Paul Wellstone, now known as Pablo, with the new Republican president, which apparently, he likes the nickname. It this working?

Mr. HITCHENS: It seems to work.

MATTHEWS: Is it important?

Mr. HITCHENS: It's been given a powerful, favorable wind, I think, by the skunklike exit of theFACTS and th--and the fragrance left behind. I mean, that's really g--tremendously helped the Bush task. I think people--surely you're bored by now with hearing about bipartisanship and the era of good feelings and so on and cooperation. It conceals--or rather, both conceals and helps to illustrate a general truth which is most of the things that Bush is doing were things the Democratic Party was prof--committed to doing anyway or had already undertaken and...

MATTHEWS: Yeah.

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Mr. HITCHENS: ...Clinton and Bush ... (unintelligible).

MATTHEWS: But that always works that way.

Mr. HITCHENS: They don't have anything to really squabble about.

MATTHEWS: But, Chris, you know, when--when Bush came--when Clinton came in he passed George Bush's trade bill, NAFTA--NAFTA. Oftentimes, the party can do what the other party tries to do, but because they don't have some of the other party helping them, things don't work until they get in.

Mr. HITCHENS: But--but if you...

MATTHEWS: So clearly, Bush can do some of the things Clinton would have liked to have done.

Mr. HITCHENS: If you take only this morning's news, I don't think Al Gore would have found anything like so easy to say to the Pentagon, 'Hold on, you're not going to get all the money you're asking for.' Clinton and Gore promised them more than they had asked for during the last election cycle.

MATTHEWS: That's right. Clinton was piling it on at the end.

Mr. HITCHENS: Pi--really heaping it on and trying to buy time, and--and al--also flirting with s--with, of course, the Star Wars idea.

MATTHEWS: Sounds like you're a bit of a Whig now. You like Bush?

Mr. HITCHENS: No. No, I didn't say--I didn't say--I didn't...

MATTHEWS: You're--you're flirting with this possibility of liking this man?

Mr. HITCHENS: I did not say that, but there's nothing that can be said against him that couldn't have been said against the Clinton-Gore people.

MATTHEWS: Back with Christopher Hitchens on HARDBALL. Coming back in just a minute. Stay with us.

(Announcements)

MATTHEWS: Well, in Harper's Magazine this month there's an article called The Case Against Henry Kissinger, the former secretary of State and former national security adviser to Richard Nixon, a man who played such a role in the Vietnam War in his midterm and all the way to the end of the war. The title of your piece, however, is the making of a war criminal. Explain, Christopher, the title.

Mr. HITCHENS: Happily. What I say in the article is that Henry Kissinger, with Richard Nixon, colluded to undermine the U--US negotiated position in 1968 in the Paris peace talks on Vietnam by promising the South Vietnamese that if they pulled out of those talks on election eve, which they did, and made the Democrats look bad, destroyed their--their platform, they'd get a better deal, the South Vietnamese military, from the incoming Republicans. Kissinger leaked from the Democratic side from the Paris team into the Kissinger campaign, as we now know--into--excuse me, into the Nixon campaign, as we now know and as I demonstrate. The--they took out a mortgage on another four years of war before ending it on the same terms Johnson and Humphrey had been offering. And in those four years, the war is expanded to two neutral countries, and--and an un--uncountable, appalling number of Vietnamese and Cambodian and Laosian...

MATTHEWS: Would Johnson have pulled out our troops in 1968, in November?

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Mr. HITCHENS: One--one second. Well, he was prepared to stop the bombing. The logic of withdrawal was under way. There's no question about it. Kissinger...

MATTHEWS: That's a reach.

Mr. HITCHENS: Kissinger published an article in foreign policy that--foreign affairs, excuse me, that same fall endorsing the entire Democratic strategy for the war.

MATTHEWS: Yeah.

Mr. HITCHENS: What happens when the war is--is mortgaged on for another four years, leased on for another four years, total destruction of two neutral countries, Cambodia and Laos, fantastic number of civilian casualties...

MATTHEWS: Right.

Mr. HITCHENS: ...inflicted deliberately...

MATTHEWS: Yeah.

Mr. HITCHENS: ...breaking the Nuremberg codes and all the laws of war, and, of course, 22,000 American casualties incurred quite...

MATTHEWS: Yeah.

Mr. HITCHENS: ...quite meaninglessly, quite needlessly. With all the new information we now have about this, I think it's time to reopen the inquiry and to say if the United States is going to go around the world approving or demanding the arrest of war criminals like Slobodan Milosevic and--and if the international community is going to lift the immunity of people like General Pinochet, and say that they're not--they can't claim the crimes...

MATTHEWS: Right.

Mr. HITCHENS: ...of state immunize them, reasons of state...

MATTHEWS: Suppose Henry Kissinger at the Paris peace talks...

Mr. HITCHENS: Then we don't have to look any further than the--midtown Manhattan, you were just asking me about.

MATTHEWS: In 1968--let me ask you a question. If he saw what looked to be a political gimmick on the eve of the 1968 election to make Humphrey and Johnson, who was not, look like doves so that they could steal an election basically from Nixon in a matter of a couple of days with a bogus peace deal, which is basically shop dressing to get them through the election. Lyndon Johnson didn't intend to pull out of Vietnam. So what difference does it make? What--what was the loss then in Nixon...

Mr. HITCHENS: Even if I--well...

MATTHEWS: ...putting the full kibosh on that and--and Kissinger playing a role in putting a kibosh on a bogus deal?

Mr. HITCHENS: Even--even if I--even if I grant you what you've said--and I'm not here certainly to defend either President Johnson or Vice President Humphrey, but they had the right to conduct these negotiations.

MATTHEWS: Sure.

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Mr. HITCHENS: They were the alleged government. The Nixon campaign, which consists in this case of Nixon himself, who later had to be pardoned rather than go to jail, Attorney General John Mitchell, who did go to jail, Spiro Agnew, who only just missed going to jail and had to resign, and Henry Kissinger, whose negotiate in secret with a foreign power to undermine the foreign policy on position and negotiating strategy of the US government and to deceive the electorate. Now that's illegal under the Logan Act for one thing...

MATTHEWS: Sure. I can accept that.

Mr. HITCHENS: ...but it's worse than that. It's a very wicked thing to have done and it prolonged the war.

MATTHEWS: Why did Kissinger get the Nobel Peace Prize if he deserves to be a war criminal on your lexicon?

Mr. HITCHENS: Because he--the people thought that his claim to have got the war ended was genuine. But his Vietnamese partner later told--quite rightly said, 'I'm not taking the peace process.' He never accepted it. So the war isn't over.

MATTHEWS: I didn't know that there were any Americans in 1968...

Mr. HITCHENS: It was--it was the stupidest thing the Nobel committee has ever done.

MATTHEWS: ...except Gene McCarthy and Bobby Kennedy, perhaps, who were willing to accept a deal whereby we pulled out of Vietnam and let the Communists take over the South that early. I thought it took a couple more years for us to accept that possible eventuality, and not even then I don't think the majority did.

Mr. HITCHENS: Well, you're--you're--you're, again, hugely mistaking it. But the fact is that the--the eventual scuttle and collapse was far worse than it would--than any outcome could possibly have been if negotiated in--in '68. The point of--the point is that it was an immoral intervention in US, foreign and domestic affairs.

MATTHEWS: Have you--has Kissinger responded to this?

Mr. HITCHENS: And I--I describe this just as--I describe this just as the...

MATTHEWS: Has Kissinger responded to this?

Mr. HITCHENS: I describe this just as the making--the launching of a war criminal. If you want to read on...

MATTHEWS: Has this--has the principle of your piece, Mr. Kissinger, responded to your commentary?

Mr. HITCHENS: He's so far--so far not returned any of our mail, e-mail, or telephone calls or invitations, no. But wait till he sees what we've written about his role in Chile and Cyprus and Bangladesh, in East Timor...

MATTHEWS: Right.

Mr. HITCHENS: ...and in--and in profiting from it as a private citizen and then stealing the--stealing the historical record.

MATTHEWS: OK. Is this a free country? Chris, you're a bri--a brilliant man, but I may disagree with you. Anyway, don't forget, you can get all the Political Buzz delivered by e-mail. Sign up for our free daily briefing, hardball.msnbc.com. We'll be right back. You're watching HARDBALL.

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