TELCONE

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

9:35 a.m., April 22, 1973

K: Anatol, you just can't stay away from me.

D: Of course not. I just received a telegram from Gromyko. Brezhnev would like to inform the President just for his information that this agreement reached with Brandt that Brezhnev will visit West Germany beginning from 18th to 22nd of May.

K: All right. 18th to the 22nd of May. We won't do any bombing in Germany during that period.

D: I hope you will not. And your speech will be encouraging (laughter). I mean, I know tomorrow you are going to make a speech...

K: Frankly, it doesn't affect anything in East-West relations. Almost entirely addressed to internal Western relations.

D: Internal? Yeah, I understand, relations. Well, I think after all we have the Year of Europe. haven't we?

K: That's what it's about. It explains the Year of Europe.

D: Because I think ______ for your ideas because they are just waiting, waiting and they would like to know exactly. So your speech will make it clearer for opening the way for the Year of Europe. Yes?

K: Well, I am now in the process of placing the verbs. I've got everything else written.

D: (laughter) All right.

K: Basically I don't see anything in that speech that affects the Soviet position at all.

D: I think you are wise to...

K: I mean, it's basically a speech that we will maintain our friendship with Europe even though we are determined to continue on East-West relaxation.

D: I think the knowledge -- Seriously, I think Brandt is going to go there in their own way but in that direction so it couldn't be American ______.

K: It's not a controversial speech.

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Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

2

D: Yes.

K: Particularly, as it will take them three or four days to understand what I've said.

D: (laughter) Well, this is the point. That is why it's like a ______ when you give something like a mind. You make tick, tick, tick and nobody knows what it's up to. . . . . . what he really meant. But I think it will give some excitement in its chanceries of the foreign offices and prime ministers. Why not for a change?

K: Exactly.

D: Because sometimes they became too fat.

K: Exactly. Good. So from the 18th to the -- Will he travel around Germany? Yes, I know he will travel.

D: Well, they give me only this. Because just the agreement was reached about the date so this -- I mean, to tell the others.

K: Now, Anatol, I've told the President that there is an agreement that around the 18th of June he will come here.

D: Along those lines, I said that finally they were going to tell you while you will be in Moscow but --

K: Not whether, only when.

D: Yes, when it will begun but the date will be discussed and fixed during your visit.

K: Yeah. But my point is -- I'm going on the assumption, not that it's on 18th, but I will not arrive in Moscow and then be faced with a proposal for a very much different date.

D: No, I do not have this kind of information at all, which could lead to the conclusion you just mentioned. All the information I have makes me rather believe it will be the 18th.

K: Right. Well, that's all right.

D: Yes, but they agree the date, plus or minus --

K: No, that's fine plus or minus two or three days.

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Date: 06/04/84

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

3

D: Yes, yes. I am under these assumptions.

K: Now, one other thing, Anatol, we are thinking of -- I was wondering -- It hadn't occurred to us when we spoke before whether Brezhnev would like to go to Detroit and see some automobile factories.

D: I will check with him. Maybe.

K: We have no interest in it.

D: No, no, I understand perfectly well.

K: Knowing his interest in motor cars.

D: No, no, I understand. Henry, I'm just thinking aloud on my own - you have to understand an idea if maybe he would like to go -- he didn't mention to me but suggestion of my own for him -- from L.A. then he has to go back across again, maybe to go to Alaska through Pacific.

K: Of course.

D: You not have any objection?

K: No problem whatsoever.

D: Because I am just thinking maybe it then could be proposed -- he might like it but I don't know.

K: No, if he wants to go to Alaska, that might actually be a rather nice gesture.

D: I don't know maybe he'd rather --

K: Or you can overfly Alaska. You can probably make it to Siberia from L.A. without stopping.

D: I will check.

K: Or he can go to Hawaii and go --

D: I understand.

K: It's entirely up to him.

D: I will check with him. Because when I go to Moscow, I would like to suggest it to him because he might be excited about around the globe by flying, so to speak. But I don't know. But I just simply would like to

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