Reproduced from the open files
of the Nixon Presidential
Materials Staff

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By KLC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon IO
Ron Ziegler
12/8/69 9:48 a.m.

Z said in your discussions with the President over the weekend, did you get any indication that there would be an opening statement? K said no. Z said he's going directly to questions without an opening statement? K said yes, if he doesn't, it would be absolutely new.

Z said he want to that thing last night. The response was absolutely great. Z said everyone was saying they were the best speeches in 10 years; K great; Harlow good. Z said it was a real plus. K said we had such a bad image; it helps to go the other way.

By KML NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELCON
Secretary Richardson
Mr. Kissinger
10:50 a.m., 12-8-69

K said, hello Mr. Acting Secretary. R said good morning Henry. How did you enjoy the football game? K said it was a great game but five hours of Fulbright on the plane is a little heavy. K said Fulbright says we have too many commitments and he is going to undo them.

K asked R if he had had a chance to look at the Middle East paper. R said yes, do you have a few minutes right now to discuss it? K said I will call you before 11:00 a.m. or after 11:30 a.m. today. K asked if R objected to the paper. R said no, I think it is a masterpiece. R said my comments are all detailed points. K said OK, I don't have the paper in front of me. K asked is he should circulate the paper ahead of time. R said yes, I think so. R said I had been assuming you would and wanted to give you some thoughts. K said why don't we say I will call you at 11:30 a.m. R said OK, meanwhile one other point I wanted to mention to you. I have talked to Art Hartman about the considerable number of NSSMs on Europe. R said I wanted to make one suggestion that might help produce a useful paper, i.e., I thought maybe Osgood and Camps might see what they could come up with. K said we ought to have Sonnenfeldt in on it or we will have a candidate for a job in your department. R said we should have framework group of people responsible to their agency. K said I have come to the view that that is the way to do it. R said I think Miriam is pretty good at this. K said, I don't know - she is pretty stubborn. K said but maybe that is what we need. K said I will call you at 11:30 a.m.

mlh

By: KHC NARA, Dato: 5/12/04

Telecon

U. Alexis Johnson

12/8/69 11:35 a.m.

J said he wanted to bring K up to date on the textile thing. J said the scenario is on the road. J said Shimoda came in Friday evening. There will be a meeting in Geneva on December 22, and follow up on December 29. K said after the elettion? J said after the elction--it follows closely the scenario. J said they talked about the scenario K has over here, very closely. J saod we will be making a proposal on December 22. K said pretty tough? J said yes, and between meetings it will be discussed. J said hopefully that counter-proposal will wind things up. K said good. J said it remains to be seen. K said good. J said Maury is unahppy about the dates. Maury is leaving on his safari on December 17. K said and he wanted to be in on it. J said he said to Maury he would have to give J the power of attorney. J said the public now informed of the meeting on December 22. Maury's people are doing our PEX proposal, saying we asked for the meeting. K said on December 29, they are going to make a formal proposal? J said this will be worked out. K asked if it would become public. J said no--we'll work out the tactics. K wondered if we could do it in as large a forum as Geneva. K said he'll leave you two to figur it out--anything you two wiley birds can figure out will be so complex nobody will be able to figure it out.

By KHLW NARA, Date 5/12/94

Telecon

Richardson

12/8/69 11:46 a.m.

R said he would have to hurry--has to see Margaret Chase Smith. K said are you going to start dropping names on me? R said this is one of secondary magnitude in K's pantheon. K said R has been bitter even since K got to ride for 6 hours on a jet to see a football game that could be seen on TV.

K said do you think it's a fair statement. R said yes and a solid analysis. R said he will go through his marginal notes as they come up, not in order of their importance. K asked if R minded if K didn't change every point R made. R said no.

R said on page 1, the phrase demilitarization in the Sinai--you might more specifically allude to demilitarized zones; there's a question whether the zone should extend on Israeli's side.

On Page 2, we don't know the terms of the secret agreement between Arabs and ________. K said how would you say it. R said 'come to terms with their guerilla activities. R said K might not bother with that change. K said it's just a typing problem for him. R said don't bother.

R said on the same page--'declaration of all-out war against the Israelis.' R said that's a strong statement. K said "intensified war?" R said to force a declaration of war is . . . K said why not say "intensified struggle against Israelis?" R said better. K said okay.

R said on page 3, a very small point--at the bottom on the last line. R said he doesn't know whether France and Britain really think so or just profess to think so. K said okay.

R said his basic problem recurs. At the bottom of page 4, III, "dissociate ourselves from the Israelis" might imply a more extreme case than we necessary mean. K said what do you think we have in mind? R said he thinks what we have in mind is trying to convey to the Arabe and everyony else a more nearly in-between position, separating ourselves from Israel. K said how about "separating ourselves in a more nearly . . . "--I get the point. K said is it worth redoing? R said I don't think so, but I'll let you decide.

R said one other point--maybe you could handle it orally. R said I am somewhat bothered that the paper doesn't clearly define which of our interests we attached most importance to. We could identify our interest in

By KCL- W NARA, Dale 5/12/94

page 2

in settlement, our interest in improving or preventing further damage to
relations with the Arabs, our interest in helping Israel, or in preventing
Israel from being driven into the sea, our interest in preventing future
confrontations. K said this is terribly helpful. K said he wishes he had
thought of this while the paper was being prepared. K said he is under
time pressure now; at the end he could say this has to be seen in relation
to these issues.

R said on page 8, I think 1-B is rather unrealistic under any circumstances.
R said it is inconceivable that we could do that. K said this seems to be
the view of my senior staff men who is generally in consultation with Roger
Davies and Sisco's senior staff men. K said when he [K's man] speaks, I
assume he speaks for them. K said he completely agrees with R; K's man
argued him into this.

R said on the next paragraph, here is a more important point. R said it
may be something he could deal with orally. R said it's too sharp an alter-
native to talk about breaking off talks now and say that the problem was they
were inconclusive. R said what he thinks is the right course is to say that
there was so much pressure for negotiation that a break-up was caused by
a failure to get the Rhodes formula talks going. K said he completely agrees;
what we are doing at the substantive talks is not in our interest apart from
the proposal. R said what he would flatly reject is we have a situation in
which Arabs don't flatly reject or acquiesce. R said this is the dangerous
out come. . . . Or letting them peter out brings up the same point I men-
tioned a minute ago. R said we shouldn't let ourselves get tagged with
breaking off the negotiations.

R said on page 10--same problem; we are not going to get caught
the talks. We may secretly scuttle them, but if we get caught at it, we
should use every available device to emphasize starting talks up in Rhodes
formula. K said you won't have any trouble with me.

R said at the bottom of page 11 --I think this paragraph is slightly confused.
The assumption of the first sentence is that settlement has been achieved. If
it had been, we wouldn't mind much if the Soviets . . . that XXXX assumes a
favorable outcome.

R said there's a small point on page 12--the point might be made, objections
to small committing to talks on this basis are stronger that objections to doing
so on a four-power context. K said that should be in there.

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/12/64

Telecon
Richardson

12/8/69 11:46 a.m.

R said page 12 - 7. R would say we start from that position and in effect we end there. It's the same point he made before. We start from a position of concentrating on working out a framework; they don't clearly enough emphasize that we should start and end there. K said right.

R said on page 13, under B2--resignation to Arab-Israeli clash. K said that's wrong. R said it doesn't take care of our relations with the Arabs. R said on the bottom of the page -- " . . . Israelis to accept . . ." R said what happens then with regard to our policy of supplying arms and other assistance to Israel. K said that's what these people don't think through. R said that's all.

K said in distributing this, do you prefer that I didn't indicate I discussed it with you. R said yes. K said he would simply say this is an NSC document--just to help focus on discussion, okay? R said yes, this is not inconsistent--just another memo being sent to Rogers. K said right--one other thing. K said did you see about calling the 6-month truce to let us get our troops out. R said no. K said he saw it on the news ticket; it said the cease-fire could be permanent if we call our troops out. K said do you want to ask Marshall or Bill to get over some suggested answers. K said we obviously can't accept this, but if they would like to suggest some answers that would be appreciated. R said okay; K said good, thank you.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: KHL NARA, Dated: 5/12/64

Telecon
Bill Sullivan
12/8/69 12:38 p.m.

K asked if S had seen the VC announcement. S said yes. K said undoubtedly the President will be asked about it at the press conference tonight. K said he has talked with Richardson, but just in case there was some delay, can S get some suggested answers over by 2:30. S said yes, they were working on that now. S said it's not too hard--it's so blatant. K said there should be two answers--one to the 6-month thing and one to the PRG. S said right. K said thank you.

Reprinted from the open files
of the Nixon Presidential
Materials Staff

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Cong. Passman
12/8/69 5:00 p.m.

K said he was talking to Congressman Mahon about aid appropriations and he suggested that K take up the problem K has with P. P said it's a little bit late, after marking the bill up. P said of course I think the most brilliant man in the world is President Nixon. P said they thought they could roll the hell out of me, and I decided it was impossible. P said it was strange of K to call him after all the bridges have been burned, but if K wants him, he'll come running. K said he wanted to explain how he talked to Mahon. K said he went to the Texas-Arkansas game . . . P said it was quite a game wasn't it. K said yes quite a game; I flew down on the . . . P said sent chills up your spine. K said yes; I was sitting next to him on the plane. P said oh, my apologies.

K said the appropriations for Vietnam were cut by $115 million in P's committee; K said of course, he didn't discuss figures with him. P said he was sorry he didn't have a chance to discuss it with the P. P said he is going to be completely responsible, and we always have the conference to go through. P said he wanted the P to know that his recommendations weigh heavily with P. P said here's the story: $595 million were appropriated last year; $365 million were recommended by our committee. We appropriated $365 million this year we found that they only needed $240 million last year. They have $______ unobligated that lapsed on June 30. They transferred out of other programs out of the aid bill. That's $113 million we shouldn't have put in the bill but did. Here's what's in the bill: I'll tell you so you know you're dealing with a responsible individual. Here are the figures: new funds of $300 billion. Also recommend reappropriation of $55,680,000, that lapsed. That's 35 million 910 thousand; 300 million new funds; 55 million 680 thousand funds that had lapsed; also a right to 35 million 910 thousand that had lapsed. P said he wanted the P to know he said this to K. P said the Senate has already reported out their bill at $420 million for supporting assistance. $414 million by the House. P said you tell me what you want and it will be in there. K said he couldn't ask for more. P said you tell me what you want and it will be in this bill in conference. K said I want to answer your question as responsibly as you have it to me; can I take two days. P said when we get to conference you tell me what you want and it will be in there. P said for K to tell the P. K said he would tell him tonight. P said up to $375 million; I will go up an additional $375 million in conference. K said and keep the part you . . . ? P said oh yes. All the P has to do is to tell me and it will be in there. P said he was doing a fine job of trying to get us out of this and P wants to do everything he can do for him. K said he appreciates this and only regrets he didn't get in touch with P earlier. P said he owes K an apology--P thought K had talked with Mahon on the Hill.

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/12/04

page 2

K said his second problem is the Latin American part. K said we realize there's a large carry-over. P said he thinks $600 million. P said he had an increase up to $75 million. P said on development loans last year, $400 million; the final appropriation was $255 million. Last year $255 million at this point; in conference they moved it up to $275 million. K said the P has announced a new policy; said he was going to get Latin American to stand on its own feet, but it would be a psychological setback if the figures were cut. P said last year the Congress appropriated $255 million. K said we asked for $437 this year? P said yes, we authorized $337. P said every year we cut it by $100 million. K said how much did you cut. P said $137 million, 500 thousand. P said it's so fragmented this bill--the totel figure is $10 billion, it's 578 million. P said this budget is usually cut by $1 billion. P said the years 1956 to 1969 inclusive saw a reduction of 11 billion dollars, $185 million below the budget request. P said this is a matter of 1% of previous years. P said this is the first year he has spoken with the White House and agreed to raise it. P said whatever Nixon wants, all he has to do is reach P through K. K said he's learned one thing from this conversation; next year he won't wait until the bill is marked up. K said that way we'll avoid all the pulling and hauling. P said it would take 100,000 men to do all the P needs so it has to be done through subordinates. P said he usually doesn't listen to aides. But P said he wants to help him. P said the last 5 years Eisenhower was president, we wouldn't let P go into the White House because he wouldn't do this. P said he didn't do it for Kennedy or Johnson, but he wants to help Nixon. P said it wouldn't do for too many to be in on this. K said no, it's between P and K and the P. P said he's going to tell Ford--not that he's talked with K, but that he's going to move up on supporting assistance. P said this bill will be easy to defeat if P reveals all the statistics. K said he understands what P has to do.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/13/04

Telecon
Secretary Laird
12/8/69 7:20 p.m.

K said welcome back; L said it's nice to be back. L asked if everything is all right. K said everything is fine. K said the President will make the statement next week. K said he may say a longer period tonight then he will, in fact, use. K said it's probably better to say earlier than to say next week and wait till the last day. L said the announcement in Saigon as early as possible will be heldful. L said about the story by Chalmers Roberts. K said he hadn't seen it. L said it's not true; it said Rogers tried to get that language in the communique. K said oh yes, it seemed out of character for Bill; I was amazed. K said he didn't know where they got that from. L said Rogers was upset about it.

L said he has to testify tomorrow; Russell insisted that L be the witness. L said he wouldn't take Packard. K said he rode with Mahon on the plane down to the Texas-Arkansas game; he spoke of L with great respect.

L said the President wrote to him today; the P doesn't like Bolling Air Force Base not going to the District of Columbia. K said he didn't know about that.

L said Percy tried to get him into that thing; L said he is staying out. L said Percy shouldn't have released that thing letter—he should have kept his mouth shut.

K said what do you think about the President's commission. L said the P said he tried to shut it down at every chance. K said do you agree. L said he didn't get a chance in Europe. K said do you agree. L said I agree; you're going to get people making charges. K said couldn't you cut that off with the Commission? L said he thinks their investigation with two competent attorneys—he thinks we can see how that goes. L said the Commission can't do a lot until the trails are over with anyway. L said can't get into too much on that now anyway. L said he was surprised that the British press was the only one raising hell. L said Healy thought he could quiet that down. L said Wilson is going to make a speech in Parliament. K said yes, he had heard that Wilson had made a speech today while the dentist was drilling a tooth.

L said he had refused to have any press conferences; but he had a short meeting with the press in Paris. L sent the transcript to K so he will have them soon. K said he had told the President how meticulous L had been on the trip and the P appreciated it very much. L said good; see you tomorrow.

By: KHC NARA, Dated: 5/13/64

Telecon
Secretary Laird
12/8/69 7:50 p.m.

K said there was one item: this Turkish tank sale to Pakistan. L said it was approved by LBJ. K said on the talks again, sort of a personal 3/4 commitment to MaYa. L said he's just as soon have them go. K said the P wants to take the position that we didn't have anything directly to do with it. K said he is not going to put out a written directive; but can L just do it. L said State is against it, and you're not going to tell them about it. K said no, he will tell them; K said it will cost us about 3.6 million dollars. L said it was promised by Johnson. K said it was promised by Johnson and the President promised them again. K said the P doesn't want people to start leaking that we made a formal national decision. K said he just prays they don't show up against Israel now in Jordan. L said Keating will raise hell.

By KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELECON
Mr. Kissinger
Mr. Haldeman
12/8/69; 9:50 p.m.
IO

(I didn't hear the first part because it was on the IO -- which I don't have on my desk)

H said he didn't mention Synagogues (laughter). K said if you think that is going to help in New York, you are crazy (more laughter). H said we are going to have to give out a correction on that. K said I will get it to Ziegler.

K asked how H thought it came out and H said I think we came out darn well. H said John Chancellor (sp.?) said it was the most productive news conference he has had.

By: KHC NARA, Date: 5/12/64

TELECON
Mr. Kissinger
The President
12/8/69; 10:30 p.m.

P asked K how it was and K said he thought it was outstanding. K said on a technical level it was an outstanding performance -- you were relaxed and the questions were humorous. You projected the image of a man that was at ease. P said the fact that 90% of the people don't understand the details was a plus. K said John Chancellor (sp.?) said it was the best and most effective press conference. P exclaimed did he really say that? K said they may scream about Agnew but he did a lot of good. K said the substance was very suitable and good. P asked if K noticed that he put Vietnam off for two or three weeks. P said Bill Rogers called and was very pleased with it. P said Bill has turned a little tough since he got back -- he may have learned something.

P asked about My Lai. K said he thought it was very strong -- it showed moral concern. P said the point about the people who were helping was a good point.

P said we didn't give anything away tonight. K said you handled SALT exactly right. P said I asked Bill what the hell it was all about and he said I said the right thing. K said we just asked for a 24-hour delay and it was just a technical thing. K said if you had been briefed, what you said was exactly what I would have briefed you on. P asked about his indicating optimism on SALT and K said it was OK -- we talked about it on the plane. P mentioned something about summit (?) and not mentioning it at the press conference. K said I am meeting with Dobrynin on the 22nd and will have a chance to discuss it with him.

P said I put down the Viet Cong and My Lai. P said on this matter of the commission -- K said you handled it well. P said what our enemies want is to make My Lai the war.

P asked how K liked his answer to Nancy Dickerson about K and Harvard. K said P said I want to treat them as adults. K said Chancellor picked it up. P said they saw in me tonight a pretty tough guy. K said what you said about the youth was nothing they should take offense to.

P again asked how K thought it went. K said you made a very relaxed impression. K said he watched it from the East Room and did not see him on television. K said Haldeman said it was the very best. P said the questions were antagonistic. K said but respectful. P said I do better

By KHL NARA, Dalo 5/12/04

with antagonistic questions. K said John Pearson (sp.?) was next to me. He said the Morgan (?) question was the dumbest question yet.

P said he was talking to Mrs. Nixon(?) and shethinks he should have a press conference at least once a month. K said De Gaulle had two press conferences a year. K said you have had national television exposure and he listed the various TV appearances recently. K said you should do it on the rarer side. P said yes, there is too much work -- I have been in the pit for the last two days working on it. P said okay, Henry, get back to work!

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/12/64

TELECON
Mr. Kissinger
Mr. Ziegler
12/8/69; 11:00 p.m.
IO

(Again, I didn't hear the first part because it was on the IO)

Z said I told them you were upset because he didn't mention anything about the Jews (laughter).

Z said I thought it was excellent. K said I thought it was okay. K said we will take it easy now on withdrawals. Just say we don't have anything more.

Z asked about Paris and what he should say. K said just say if they want to make serious proposals anytime -- we will respond. Z said Rogers implied that we won't make a new appointment for Lodge until something breaks and asked if he should say that or something along that line. K said just be in between that. K said just say the prospects for progress in Paris will affect our selection of a new ambassador. Z asked if K wanted him to say that. K said yes.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Richardson

12/9/69 10:15 a.m.

K said he made the changes; R will be getting the memo. But K said he was calling for something else. K said R told me you were going to have lunch with Dobrynin today and not yesterday. R said it was yesterday. K said he read R's account. K said there is one problem which K wanted to talk to R about before they had lunch. K said what R said to Dobrynin was opposite of what the President said. K said the P said what we do in the negotiations depends on how they behave themselves on Vietnam. But K said he didn't want that to be part of any record; that's why K wanted to talk with R, because R had no reason to know. R said he was trying to distinguish between the attitude that yes, the opportunity to improve relations with the Soviet Union will be more heavily influenced by the way you behave on Vietnam than anything else. R said he didn't think he could say when it came to the Middle East that we would take a harder or softer stand. R said he said our belief in their good faith is dependent on what the President said. R said it was his impression--according to conversations with the P--that the attitude of the U. S. toward this aspect of relations with the Soviet Union would be influenced. R said he said this is true. R said but it doesn't mean . . . he then went on to imply 'what is the use of talking after the Middle East.' R said he said it is still useful because while our attitude toward improvement of relations is improved by this we wouldn't take the position that we wouldn't otherwise take toward the Middle East because of this. K said there was no problem with the P; K said he wanted to make sure he didn't go away with the wrong impression. K said as long as R said that--that's exactly right. R said he was trying . . . this was a 2 - 1/4 hour lunch. K said he would love to see a memcon. R said he is working on it. R said it was interesting, the questions he didn't want to answer. R said it would take all day to follow them up with follow-up questions. R said he said it puzzles me what you people are afraid of after 50 years. R sensed that Dobrynin felt vulnerable on that. R said the only sense he could make was they hadn't been able to figure out how to handle transfer of power--they didn't dare let the people in on the process. K said really--he's an interesting guy.

K said he had to go to a meeting on oil imports; K said he would see R tomorrow.

By KHC NARA, Dale 5/12/04

TELCON
Governor Dewey
Mr. Kissinger
11:05 a.m., 12-9-69

D said I got a little confused. The President called me after his press conference and talked about a variety of things. D said I asked him if there were any papers or documents that we might study to save time in the meeting on Thursday. D said the President thought there were not but that he (the President) would arrange for us to spend an hour with you before we meet with him. K said I think it is a good idea and the President mentioned it to me just a few minutes ago. K said I was going to call you. K said why don't we meet in my office about 2:00 p.m. on Thursday. K said I will give you a rundown on some things. D said I will take it up with General Clay. K said I will take care of Acheson.

D said do you ever come to New York? K said I gave a talk at the Union League Club last week. D said, well, sometime when you are coming up, I would love to have you for a dinner party at our house. K said that is very generous of you and I will be happy to do it. D said if I understand it you are a bachelor and you know there are a lot of ladies around town that are good company. K said I will let you know. I will see you Thursday.

mlh

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Secretary Laird
12/9/69 3:20 p.m.

K said he has a problem on the oil import business. L said so do I. K said this thing has been merrily cooking along and nobody has been paying any attention to the political implications. L said he just went over this with Shillito this morning. K said he went over it with Schultz. K said the President hadn't focused on it before, but now he wants a delay. K wondered if L and the Joint Chiefs could delay it until the P has focused on it. L said sure. K said can you do that? L said sure. K said he had breakfast with Rowland Evans and he suggested that L is the most outstanding man in government. K said he fought with him like hell on that issue.

L said on the tariff on the Middle East oil--the Arabs will think we picked them out at this time to put a $1.25 tariff on. L said they will raise hell. And L said our domestic producers are all against it. K said there are two issues: tariff against quota and lowering the price of oil. L said we shouldn't put the commission on it; it should be in the White House in OEP. K said what we've got to do is get the thing screwed up enough that the P gets some breathing space.

K said he would be seeing L on Thursday; he has an number of things on the NSC to discuss with L. K said he thinks L and Bill should talk 5 or 10 minutes about NATO at NSC. L said make it short, it's not that significant. K said you and I are getting together Thursday morning; there are a number of things on NSC K wanted to talk about.

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/64

Telecon
The Vice President

12/9/69 3:45 p.m.

A said K is the social butterfly of the Washington society. K said he
doesnothing to discourage this speculation. A said he wouldn't either;
would like to have the great fall-out . . . just lie there and be attacked.

A said he had called about the SALT talks; wondering how strongly he
could respond to the Soviet criticism of our posture. K said he would
just blast them on it. [The VP read about three sentences to K, the last
one saying that] we don't pay much attention to a government that is the
direct heir of Joseph Stalin, the greatest mass murderer in history.
The VP asked if that was a little rough. K said he'd go a little easy on
that; K said he'd say something about Stalin institutionalizing concentra-
tion camps, but Mass murdered is a little rough. K said that XHOU sounds
like Buchanan. The VP said it was. The VP said K would see it.
K said A is sure stirring up K's ex-colleagues. A asked are they still
stirred up? A said he thinks it's had some effect--they are more re-
strained K said he saw Mary McGrory and she said he's trying to deprive
me of my citizenship. K said he said good god, what are you doing to us!
A said she goes a little overboard. K said she's a hysterical woman in
the menopause.

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Ray Klein

12/9/69 6:50 p.m.

Kl said there were two things: first, Shirley Temple Black is going to be on Meet the Press this Sunday. Kl said it seems to him that it's important that she be briefed by Ki. Kl said let Haig do it; I don't have the time. Kl said he would talk for 15 minutes, but he doesn't have the time to brief her. Kl said fine; we don't want her wandering off our line too badly and she's not too deep in this. Kl asked how long she would have, about an hour? Kl said why not let the office arrange that? Kl said okay.

K said he understands the Vice President is working on a speech. K' said he read three sentences to me which I thought were okay. K' said but I should see it. K said he thinks so too. K said the thing that worries him is Buchanan is working on it. K said he thinks we ought to pipe him down for a bit. K said the P got through these problems so well. K said and then he's got this statement on Monday. K' said what statement? K said the Vietnam statement. K' said he may not do that on TV; he may just drop it. K said he would like to see him do it during the 6:00 or 7:00 news.

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/12/04

Telecon
Laird
12/9/69 6:50 p.m.

K said he talked with the P. K said if L is willing to speak for 5 or 10 minutes about his impressions after Bill gives his. L said good. K said we had a meeting of the Defense Review Committee--K said he fought a few battles with that bastard Schlesinger. L said he's tough. K said and so obnoxious about it. L said did you know him at ______? K said no, but he knew him at RAND. K said he wants to ______ the carrier force down; Dave will tell you about it.

L said they are going to get hot on the ammunition being used against the Arabs. Does K know? K said no. L said he will bring some things over. L said it was stuff approved in the last month of the Johnson administration. K said we didn't do it? K said what sort of ammunition? L said rockets and ______ things; he doesn't want to talk about it over the phone; he'll bring some papers over. L said it's being used with F-4s. K said he guesses he knows what L means.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELECON
Mr. Kissinger
Secretary Laird
12/9/69; 6:55 p.m.

L said he had one further thing he wanted to bring up. L said he was not trying to be an alarmist about it. (Laird went on discussing something which I could not hear -- something about re-entry vehicle that could change the wind?)* L said he would bring a paper to K on it -- they (Soviets) have gone for better accuracy. K said that has been my nightmare on the SS-9. L said that might be the reason why they are keeping quiet on this.

* Secretary Laird reported that a Soviet SS-11 test confirmed that they had developed a one-mile circular error probability (CEP) capability.

By KLC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger

Marilyn Berger

12/9/69; 11:05 p.m.

B said she certainly didn't expect to get a call back from K that's why she left the question. B asked K about the helicopter forces being taken out. K said you want a real scoop, we will take out the helicopters and leave in the crews (laughter). K said as much as I have affection for Ron Ziegler it is nonsense. K said I would not write a big story on it -- not even a small story. B said this was going to be the lead of the story. B said Marty Schram (sp.?) spoke to someone at the White House and he said they will be out by 1970. K said anyone can speculate on this but it would not be true. K asked if B could tell him who on the White House staff. B said you know I won't but it was someone on your staff. K said look, you know if that's what someone said -- but it is not accurate. B said I understand and I won't write that but you tell me what is accurate. K said no, I couldn't do that. B said I understand from my sources in State, whom I trust, that no one knows except the President. K said that's true but sometimes I think I know. K said will you not quote me -- Ron just got carried away. K said if that's what you say he said I regret it. B said but he was reading it, I am told, from a piece of paper (B said she was not at the briefing). B said she just had to question this thing of helicopters. K said I am not going to let myself get into something that isn't right. K said I would not write the story. B said I will try to sell that to my editor. K asked if she meant Moyers. B said Dave Lowenthal (sp.?) -- Groosom (sp.?) went back to Times.

B said there is a great grass roots movement here to ask for an interview. K said but your questions are too good. B said flattery will get you no where. B said she understood that K only had a certain amount of time. K said but we did have an appointment once. B said yes, but I was willing to bet that it would be cancelled since it was during the Sato visit. K said he would try to arrange an appointment but this was a particularly rough period. B said she knew he was having lunch with some news people. K said he never had lunch with news people and he asked B who? B said she could not tell him. K checked his calendar and said he has not seen anyone from the news in the past two weeks.

B went back to the list that Ziegler read from and K said there probably is a list in the Pentagon which defines combat and combat support forces in that way but this does not say we would follow this -- nor can you assume the opposite. B said well.

B said Laird and Rogers did very well on the Hill. K said oh, did they!

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/12/04

TELECON
Mr. Kissinger
Secretary Rogers

12/10/69; 10:15

R said on this telegram, has the President seen it -- is that the language he wants? K said that's the language he dictated. K said I urged the point that his name ought to get out of it. K said I like in particular the language in paragraph #2 or ... I don't have it in front of me. K said I think wiping the slate clean is something I don't like. K said the Sino Soviet thing we can also drop out. K asked how about the longer paragraph. R said to me it is doing something I just don't want to do. R said I don't think he should use words to say that we have both been at fault. K said I think my recommendation would be to take out this condominium thing and any reference to this dispute. R said I agree. K said we can do that between ourselves without going back to him. K said wiping the slate clean is something we ought to take out -- the last sentence is fairly bland. R said I don't want to make it look as though we are licking our boots to discuss this talk to them. K said I can't agree more with you. We have toned it down some. K said my recommendation would be to take out condominium, Sino Soviet and wiping the slate clean. R said it is not that we won't want to eventually say that. K said yes, why should we volunteer something they have not asked for.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: KHC NARA, Dated: 5/12/64

Telecon
Bryce Harlow

12/10/69 2:35 p.m.

K said you sound ominous. H said they are about to vote down the export control bill in the House with the understanding that it's the administration's desire. K said right. H said when did we get in that stance? K said he didn't know about it. K said the extension of the export control killed with the Mondale bill? K said he hasn't talked to any Congressmen about this.

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/12/04

Telecon
Hugh Sidey
12/10/69 2:44 p.m.

[Didn't hear beginning of conversation; had to answer IO]

S said just he and I and members of our bureau. K said all Time-Life people? S said yes, just our group, okay? K said sure. K said he had heard that other news people were being brought in. S said no. S said he is going to try to steer it away from Vietnam and talk more broadly about the world. K said he would welcome that. K said he was in New York the first of the week and he told his people they're belaboring the war thing to death. S said K can come when he can and leave when he has to. K said 1:00? S said yes, we're in the new Motion Picture Building.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12950, Sect. 3.6

By KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon

General Haig

12/10/69 3:25 p.m.

K said he has to see the P and he doesn't have Holdridge's memo. K
said what do I have to do to get some staff support? H said do you
mean the think piece? K said yes. K said when does he think K can
use it? This is the sort of thing if I can't get it in an hour or two I
might as well not have it all. H said he was sure he could get it in
30 seconds.

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/64

Telecon
Secretary Rogers
12/10/69 4:48 p.m.

Rsaid a couple of things: the telegram from Yost about the Cambodia problem, the raids over Cambodia. K said yes. R said it could be serious. R said if it gets into a Security Council debate in New York it would be serious. K said you mean about the artillery thing--I understand. R said he thinks the military should put the bases bact from the border; R doesn't see that it makes any difference to have the base so close. K said and why they announce it I don't know. R said Charlie said he agreed not to press for Security Council debate in New York, but R doesn't know if we can help it. R said he in the Portugal thing the Africans said we won't forget this when it comes up in Cambodia. K said he had seen it and called it to the P's attention in a general way. R said Yost hopes for action on the paper on Jordan before the Friday meeting. K said if we got action then he wouldn't have anything to do. K said is the paper in formal form over here; it would help if R could send over the final version. R said he will do that. R said the question of hos much detail is anybody's guess. R said but I do think we've got to have some position.

R said he thought the discussion this morning was good. K said it was good and it clarified the issues. K said it would help the P if R could in that position which preferred indicate a fall-back position that R could accept. R said one thing: we always end up being ambivalent, the P saying something pretty Pro-Arab and then saying don't do very much for them; we won't get any credit anyway, let's be sure they do a lot for us. K said R made that point and the point about what R heard in the previous administration.

R said on the hearings on Vietnam they criticize the policy and then we say what would you like us to do. R said it's a can of worms.

R said we came off well in the testimony. K said he was talking with a news man who liked the part where Fulbright said to R did he detect any inconsistency and R said yes, not in a way to needle the administration. R said the publicity last night was very good. K said good.

R said he didn't have anything else; when is the next NSC? K said next Wednesday on South African policy.

By KHW NARA, Dato 5/12/64

Telecon
Rogers

12/10/69 4:48 p.m.

R said he saw Arthur Ash in Paris. He wants a visa to play tennis in South Africa. R said that would help us. K said oh yes, definitely. R said he says if he doesn't get in the South Africans won't be able to take part in the Davis Cup Matches. K said good, are you still planning to go to Africa in February? R said yes. K said that's a good idea. R said Shuman said it would be a good idea for R to go to __________. K said did Alex tell you about Morocco? K said of course you can't trust McNamara's judgment. R said they need some support. K said Shuman's idea would be a good one if it would be worked out. R said I don't know. K said has a Secretary of State ever been in black Africa before. R said no. K said then doubly good.

R said Freeman asked him to ask: The Prime Minister wants to make a speech on economic matters in the U.S. He can't work it in in Washington. The only time he could work it in is on the way to Washington from Ottawa. He wanted to know if R thought the P would think it inapprpriate for him to speak before he saw the P. K said I think not, but let me check with him. R said Freeman said for us to tell him frankly; he wants to speak on economic matter with no political overtones. K said his offhand judgment is no problem, but he'll check.

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/12/64

Telecon
Secretary Rogers
12/10/69 5:40 p.m.

R said on this telegram to __________, I have the question of the suggestion contained in this. R said he has reservations about going into it on the first meeting and putting the posture of the P on the first meeting. R said the last time there was an agreement to meet and then they cancelled and attacked. R said when Marshall Green brought the first telegram up . . . K said he never saw that one. R said somebody in K's shop did. R said he thinks we should be reserved, not say too much and not get the XXX P too actively involved by name. K said he got R's point. R said that's fine if . . . this will be preliminary anyway. R said he can imagine them saying we got a plea from the President of the United States and we told him to go to hell. K said good point; very good. R said why not let us take the . . . K said why don't you send over the version of what you want. R said right away. K said he sees the force of this; this is what the P wanted, but K thinks R's point is very strong. K said he will get it to him in an hour; R is quite right. K said we want to find out the tone. R said it might give some latitude in finding out what they have in mind. R said there might be some advantage in having it in Pakistan rather than in Warsaw. K said it could give latitude to suggest it.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Amb. Yost
12/10/69 6:02 p.m.

Y said he had a useful discussion yesterday. Y was wondering about the
____ of the clearance. K said he hasn't seen Bill's paper. K
knew it was coming in. K said the P would rather give Eban a chance to
do the talking tomorrow, and do it next week. Y said Eban won't be in
till after our next meeting. Y said we are obliged to work from the
French paper and Russian pieces of paper, rather than from our own.
K said Rogers told him he was going to send over your position and an
alternate position in case the P didn't want to go this far. Y said he
hadn't heard about that. K said this paper would just be a codification
of what the P said in his speech. Y said it doesn't give a border line.
K said no, except the old lines. K said let me look; when do you need an
answer? Y said tomorrow by 3:00. K said if I have to give you a directive
now, it will be no, because that's what the P said. Y said well, take a look
at it. K said I will call you in any event before noon tomorrow. Y said
fine.

*

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

The conversation never identified who was calling, but I think it probably was Haldeman.

Telecon IO
?

12/10/69

? said are you familiar with what your man Fred Bergsten has done to us? ? said Senator Cotton introduced a bill on textile imports; Harry Dent trying to stay out of the fight. B ordered a vigorous diesgment to this; as a result Cotton will desert us on ABM. K said wait a minute; I don't understand. K said they introduced a textile amendment? ? said Cotton did. K said and Bergsten on his own ordered to launch a vigorous opposition--against? ? said we're against it, but we didn't want to get into it. K said he shouldn't be in C Kongressional relations in the first place. K said what can we do/ ? said nothing. K said as far as he is concerned, Bergsten is on his way out. ? said Cotton was enraged and Hollings . . . K said let me think about this. K said he is going to get Bergsten under control for the limited time he's still here. ? said we shouldn't do anything without Harlow's concurrence; he's trying to patch it back together. K said he's never gotten into Congres- sional matters without getting in touch with Bryce and for his staff to do it is inconceivable.

K said the Romanians are sending a private message to us, through a person they told us we could trust. A message from that man. ? said related to that other matter? K said I think so. K said he doesn't want to get too excited. There are too many things popping all at once. K said those bastards in Foggy Bottom are going to get the credit. ? said let them.

K said I understand LBJ is coming tomorrow. ? said yes, just for a social visit. LBJ was going to be here for a wedding and the P thought he had to see him; it's just a fanny-patter.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon

Larry Lynn

12/11/69 9:45 a.m.

K said he talked to Laird and he says he doesn't know what L is talking about. But he says it will all be settled. K said I didn't say to him you are a god damned liar. K said he is making Tucker head of programs analysis. L said terrific. K said good; it solves most of our problems L and Tucker work well together. K said I think we should do it one issue at a time: program; NATO study . . . K said he isn't just about to fight me, and I'm not just about to fight him. L said no, and the comments I make to you I don't make to them. K said Packard is such a dope.

By KLC NARA, Dale 5/12/69

Telecon IO

Peter Flanigan

12/11/69 10:18 a.m.

F said that paper prepared by Standard of Jersey; it's supposed to be
the only one around. K said if I know my staff they are probably staf-
fing the living daylights out of it. F said tell your staff not to discuss
it with the task force.

F said Scranton is coming in. K said that means he'll come crying
in here afterwards. F said why, I'm not going to do anything to make
him cry. K said the last time he was offered a job he came in here
physically weeping. K said it's incredible that that man should have
been considered as President--such a taxing job. F said right. K
said be gentle. F said yes, I'll go easy on him.

By KHL NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Secretary Rogers

12/11/69 10:35 a.m.

K said two things: first congratulations on the editorials; they came out very well; they should help with the Arabs. R said it was the best of all possible worlds; Times carried it yesterday and today. R said he said nobody ever reads the speech, but the Times editorial was unusually good. K said now for the P to do anything would be almost a derrogation. K said there is nothing the P could do which would be anything but nit-picking one or two points. R said he doesn't know how you could get a more balanced policy statement. K said yes, we should just let it sit there. R said he thinks it's a good policy statement. K said Elliot may have told you at first I was lukewarm, but then when I read the text . . . R said he made a lot of changes on the plane. K said even the original text was a damn good speech. R said the emphasis was on the Rhodes Formula. K said it turned out . . . the Israeli objection is okay if it doesn't go any further than that--in fact that's what we need. It wouldn't be authentic fix if the Israelis approved.

K said you asked about Wilson's speech? K said he brought it up with the P--no problem.

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/13/04

Telecon
The Vice President
12/11/69 10:40 a.m.

K said he wanted to avoid any possible misunderstanding about the speech. VP said there was no misunderstanding. K said he hasn't read the text of the speech. K said he was asked whether he thought there should be a speech on My Lai. K said he thought the best thing would be to let the controversy die down. VP said he understood the reason for skipping it. VP said the P originally directed him to do it. But the P's handling of it at the press conference and the disposition of the press to drop it after one question and laudable answer--best to drop it. VP said he had to get another speech quickly, but unfortunately the situation prohibited his delivering any speech except for a few words. VP got caught on the road and didn't get there until 11:00 and wasn't about to deliver a 17-page speech at 11:00. K said the news excerpts on VP's speech said he attacked the protesters. VP said not attacking, just observation. VP said he was just trying to point out that these are not devised to arrive at accord. It makes a greater distance and tries to recruit non-involved to that point of view. VP said I understand. VP said he sensed yesterday that the thing is going to enjoy a resurgence, and if it gets to the point where it is again ascentant, VP said he ought to do it. K said in that case I agree. VP said if so, let me know; I'll create a forum. VP said he is leaving on December 26. K said I know. VP said he thinks it's a pretty good speech. VP said if he needs to give it, just let him know. VP said under today's situation it's just reviewing a dead issue. VP said he knows K always acts for the good of the administration. K said yes, but that doesn't always mean I'm right. VP said I trust your judgment at least 90 percent of the time. K said that's a high batting average.

VP said it was a good NSC meeting. VP said he knows the P doesn't want to discuss politics in them, but we're missing an opportunity on the Jewish public side of the Jewish community. K said we talked to Golda Meir when she was here; they have done quite a bit. VP said have they? K said I can send you some material. They can't control all their groups, and some are pretty obnoxious, but they have quieted them down. VP said that's a can of worms, the Middle East

By KHC NARA, Dato. 5/12/04

Telecon
U. Alexis Johnson
12/10/69 11:01 a.m.

K said he talked to Arthur Burns about the meeting; he is going to call it off. J said good. K said you handle Trezise so he won't start speculating. J said yes, he is handling his people.

K J said he is sending over the Wheelus negotiations; Padtard, Nutter and J are having some arguments. J said he thinks he's going to agree. J said he would call if he doesn't. K said he goes along with J if it's along the lines K and J discussed. J said he hopes for tomorrow. K said have it approved by tomorrow afternoon; I will get you an answer.

K said he told Laird December 15 is fine on the Mace-Bs. J said oh fine; thank you Henry, and thankyou for talking to Burns.

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Secretary Rogers

12/10/69 12:22 p.m.

R said Tommy Thompson requested that we advise Dobrynin about the proposed talks with the Chinese. R said he doesn't think we should, but he wanted to give the P the chance to think about it. K said how did he know? K said I guess he got it in the traffic. R said he got it in the traffic and it's going to be in the papers. R said he thinks we should be nice in view of the SALT, but R doesn't agree. K said he agrees with R and K thinks the P will need a lot of selling to accept Tommy Thompson's view. K said he would mention it to him. K said he will say that R disagreed, but wanted to be meticulous and let K know. K said he talked to two of your people. K said they said the Germans were under the impression that K had made a statement about Eastern policy. K said that's nonsense. K said there were two Germans parked outside his door for two hours; he couldn't have talked with them for more than two minutes, and there was no discussion about policy at all. K said he just wanted R to know. R said he knows. K said he agrees with what R said. R said I know; they wouldn't raise the subject with me. K said Dick Peterson said it--not as a crticism, just as an observation. K said Blumenfeld is a excellent busy-body and a second-rater. R said it was Blumenfeld. K said yes, Blumenfeld is a terrible busy-body, and a second-rater. K said he has no confidence in him. K said he invited K to a German-American conference.

R said thanks. K said he will tell the P. R asked if there was a chance to see a comment on the Middle East thing. K said he has sent it up to the P. R said it was a success. K said it was an enormous success; K said he sent a note to the P saying we should stand on that.

By KLC NARA, Dalo 5/12/04

Telecon

Maxine Cheshire

12/10/69 2:13 p.m.

C said someone told her that K had some lady's earring left on the moon by the astronauts. K said for God's sake, no! K said why don't you lay off me. K said I don't know who puts out those stories. K said I'm not that flippant; I like to think I'm not flippant at all. K said that's a total absurdity--nonsense. C said it's so romantic. K said it's romantic, but it's nonsense. C said you're the most eligible bachelor in Washington. K said he doesn't know if that's a compliment. K said he would like to meet C so he would know when she's around. C said she would like to stop by some time, but she said, *we don't have time for that.* I'm not a blonde, Dr. Kissinger, I'm a redhead. C said people are more interested in Dr. K than in the P in this way; K would be amazed. People call her and tell her where they've seen K.

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Secretary Laird
12/10/69 5:55 p.m.

L said he had a question he had to ask K. Did they go out to Bunker today? K said they should have. K said he cleared the cable this morning and he has no reason to think it didn't. L said that was all he needed to know.

L said they have started leaking in the hearings on My Lai. L said he thinks we are going to have to stop sending witnesses up. K said okay, thanks Mel, I'll tell the P.

*

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

TELECON

Ambassador Pauls

December 11, 1969 -- 6:22 p.m.

Ambassador Pauls said he hadn't seen Mr. Kissinger for ages. K agreed and said, if he sees any more derogatory stories about himself in the German press, no German will ever see him again. K said Blumenfeld was an old acquaintance; he is outraged at the article. It's the second time it has happened, and it was a lie both times. P said as far as his talks with K were concerned, nothing ever got out on them. K said he wished P would let his people know this is absolutely untrue. Nothing like that had been said to Blumenfeld. P asked how Blumenfeld could then talk that way -- it may have been wishful thinking policy-making-wise. K said he had only seen Blumenfeld for 5 minutes, though he had waited for nearly two hours to get in. P said that was interesting -- he didn't know that.

P said he would love to see K again soon; he hasn't seen him for weeks. He feels he should talk with K and listen to K about some things. Today, Pauls had gotten an appointment with K for January 8. K said he would see what could be done about seeing Pauls next week (week of Dec 15), and would see that Pauls was called on Friday, December 12, with an appointment time.

P asked K if he were going to see Karstens. K said, "definitely," if he can assume German private citizens wouldn't misrepresent what he said. His only reason for having seen Blumenfeld was that he had been a man who had been kind to K on a number of occasions. P said sometimes Blumenfeld talks too fast -- that had been his experience with him as a visitor in Israel years ago.

P said, after this experience, he was going to tell everybody about these incidents -- first the Slattendorf(?) and now Blumenfeld -- and that they 'better keep their mouths shut.' There is no use in this. K agreed; he said if they tell something, it should be something that is true. P added, 'and after they have received agreement from you.' That is always best -- or at least to agree that nothing would be said.

P then asked if, in this vein, 'we may be frank?' K had been outraged about the article. P said the other day, when K was a guest in his house, he was outraged when K took Schmidt aside to tell him something he (Pauls) shouldn't hear. He said this had been absolutely the first time this had ever happened to him. P said he thought he should tell K this to have the atmosphere clean and free.

lds

By KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELECON

Zsa Zsa Gabor

8:15 p.m., December 11, 1969

Miss Gabor said that on Tuesday (December 16) she would be hosting the Joey Bishop show and wondered if K would be her guest. K replied that he doesn't appear on television; that while he is in this position, he is not making any public statements. Miss Gabor understood, but said that it would have been a feather in her cap, if he could have accepted. K said after he has lost his job, and people have lost interest in him, he will be glad to do it. He added that he would watch the show, however. Miss Gabor said it would be televised in Washington on Wednesday, Dec 17. She said she had never hosted such a big show before and was somewhat apprehensive. K said he never missed her shows even before he knew her personally.

Miss Gabor said she is presently making three shows for the Junior League while in Honolulu. She concluded by saying she hoped K would call her at the Plaza in New York upon her return there the middle of next week. K said he would.

lds

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger
Mary McGrory
12/11/69; 9:00 p.m.

K said no wonder you write such imtemberant articles. M said
that's where the balance comes from -- these late nights. M said
you are working late. K said but I am compulsive. M said don't
you think I can be? M said I am writing another embarrassment
article about the Administration -- she mentioned something about
National Federal Housing Association. K said I am against it.

K said I wanted to check with you whether we have a date next week --
whether it is possible the 18th. M asked if he wanted the 18th. K
said I would prefer it. K said the 15th is possible, the 17th is
possible. M said the 17th is impossible for her.

(In response to a query which I did not hear), M said I have made my
initiative. K said they understand I don't what any publicity. M said
and neither do they. K said I don't mind their talking about it -- I
am not embarrassed as long as they don't come with a canned statement
of how disappointed they were in me. M said, no, they would never
do that. K said yes, I know Sam Brown.

(They then returned to discussing their date) K said Monday, maybe?
M said no, Dean Acheson is speaking that day. K said oh, yes, you
must go to that. M asked if K initiated the friendship -- that beautiful
friendship with the President? K laughed. M said someone said that
they saw a bench occupied by Dewey, Acheson and Clay. K said
yes, they were in. K said we are now consulting the liberals. M
said you are smiling, aren't you.

(They then returned to discussing their date) K said look let me call
you tomorrow. I will know tomorrow by Noon what my situation is on
the 19th. M said I would just like to have a nice chat with you and I
think it would be an enjoyable evening. M said I look forward to hearing
from you. M asked K if he would be able to get home soon and said
she couldn't. K said I know I am stuck here for another two hours.
K said people say that they think writing is easy. K said I find it the
most excruciating occupation. M said exactly.

M said I had lunch at the French Embassy today with Lucet and Walter
Lipman was in town. M said I hope you people are going to be nice to
the French. M said nobody can fix a lunch like that!! K said but it
ruins my diet. K said I will call you tomorrow.

By K.L. NARA, Date 5/12/64

Telecon
Ambassador Yost

12/12/69 11:20 a.m.

Y said our man is coming down to deliver the statement; I told your secretary and she is having him picked up and cleared so he'll deliver it straight to you. It hasn't gotten there yet? K said no. Y said he enclosed a letter saying he's putting in a copy of his notes. Y said he understood K asked for them. Y said they're very rough; I ad-libbed from them. The other, Y said, is a proposed statement we had talked about. Y said in the meantime Roger's statement appeared. K said do you think that fills the bill? Y said our people still fell a supplementary statement from the P is needed. Y said it would be an advisable step to take. Y said in his letter he says he attempted in the statement to put down what K suggested in the meeting rather than change a new statement in light of Rogers' statement. K said just for your information, after our discussion in the morning we talked with Rogers and asked him to go a little further, be a little less careful. Y said it did some good; the editorials were very favorable. Y said he is trying to get from the oil people--who have an intelligence set-up of their own--some reactions in that part of the world. Y said he would pass them on to K or to Rogers. K said pass them on to me. Y said okay. K said pass them on to Rogers too if you want, but give them to me because the President is interested. Y said okay, the messenger took the 10:30 plane down; arrangements were made to get him straight to you. Y said he prepared a draft and sent it around --everybody had comments. Y said he did get something together, then Bob Anderson sent in a new draft. Y said he sent K Anderson's, for what it's worth. Y said this is material out of which you can probably compose something of your own. Y said it's important not to cut away at the base of Rogers' statement.

Yost said I am going to see you on the 16th. K said correct. Y said I am to mention reading over the exchanges on Helsinki. Y said he will send a letter giving K ideas of what he would say and what the P. might say. Y said that will be over today too.

Y said he thought Roger's statement was damn good. Y said the people in the American Jewish community have spoken on the importance of getting ahead if we can with a solution. They speak cautiously about a statement. W K said we will talk to Eban. Y said he is going to talk to the Council. Y said he will go and see what he has to say. Y said he has been working among Jewish elements to build up a counter to Rogers' statement, which I understand he's against.

By: KHC NARA, Date: 5/12/64

Telecon
William Buckley

12/12/69 1:25 p.m.

B said hello my learned friend, how's the empire? K said what do you mean writing me such enigmatic letters--what am I doing surreptitiously? B said what did I write to you? K said you sent me this letter saying ... hold on a second, I'll get it. [K read first part of letter] K said you didn't tell me what the direction was. B said I must have been talking about a clip that didn't get to you. B said he would sent it.

K said how are you. B said fine; I'm just back from where you sent me. K said when can you get down; I want to talk to you. B said not until early January, but if it is urgent I can figure a way to get down sooner. K said I want your impressions. B said as usual I think I've just discovered the key to the mysteries of the universe, and I want to tell Henry Kissinger first. K said are you going to be in New York. B said yes, the commission is meeting Tuesday. Then on Friday I take off for the Caribbean. B said briefly it seems what needs to be ventilated is 'what are the rights that innure to Vietnam in the process of Vietnamization?' as regards the political thing. Suppose they say, look we want to block Hanoi: doesn't it then become their responsibility, and their right, rather than our own--rather than impose on them our inhibitions. K said let's talk about it when you come.

B said I have seen angry people in my life, but never as angry as the Foreign Minister of Thailand. K said at us? B said yes, -not at my favorite professor. K said *unk* can you send that down as a special note? B said he would send it to K on Monday morning.

K said if I come to New York before you leave I will let you know and we can spend an hour. B said I am sorry to send you enigmatic notes. K said to be melodramatic and surreptitious at the same time *uk* is quite an achievement.

By: KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Senator Javits
12/12/69 3:27 p.m.

J said he thought K would be happy to know that they carried the amendment for overseas private investment corporation. K said good. J said it's the first solid initiative for this administration. J said we carried it by a vote of 53 to 36. K said terrific. J said the department did a great job--Sulzman and Telifson(?) did a fantastic job. K said well, congratulations.

J said the other thing is about Sadruddin Kahn. K said I'm seeing him tomorrow morning at 10:00. Can you come? J said yes. K said good.

J said he didn't want to do it now, but there is a lot to talk with K about. J said this group of Republican Senators is coming to be a choate force that could be turned to good use. J said they're not at all hostile. K said let's talk about that next week.

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
U. Alexis Johnson
12/12/69 5:25 p.m.

J said what do we say to the Senate of the F-4's for Taiwan? K said
have you seen what my people are suggesting. J said I have something
from BOB. K said what's that? J said another piece of paper. K said
he has Ewers and Defense. K would like to suggest an intermediate pro-
posal: 54.5 million executive ______ bills provision on this reflects
it's also important, but not as high a priority as originally recommended.
J said not as high a priority? What's the rationale? In light of what
we've said? K said yes. J said I see: Bill Rogers is going to be reluc-
tant to say that, because we don't believe it--that's the problem. K said
I'm in . . . in light of some of the things that have been going on . . .

[I had to answer the IO and missed most of the rest of the conversation.]

J said . . . and that's your guidance on this. J said okay, I have to get
the Secretary together with Laird on this. K said as long as it is something
friendly. J said okay. What the BOB suggested--we don't think--it pro-
vided flexibility in use of funds and insured highest priority; specific amounts
not to be designated for any particular country. K said what's the reason
for that. J said we never had Lion (?) items and if we start to in the future
years, we're going to have increased difficulty.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Volpe

12/12/69 6:00

V said two quickies: as a result of my visit to Italy and my visit with the Holy Father, we agreed that the Vatican would send somebody to see the P from time to time. V wondered whether the P did send a letter to the Holy Father indicating his pleasure at my report and inviting him to send a representative with whom he can discuss mutual problems. K said let me check this; I am not sure, but I think we have. V said it seems desirable. If he's done it, fine. V thinks he'll get a reply. V said if it hasn't gone, it should indicate the P would like someone from his hierarchy to come over.

Other question: help on the Italian bilateral air agreement. K said why don't you send me over some facts; I don't know enough about it. V said let me send you a little memo; they've had meetings, and with Rumor coming here now if we were able to button down an agreement. . . the government needs to be shored up a bit. K said it may not last that long. V said oh, is that the thinking. K said yes.