[lc]

Hello, darling.

**Whoopi:** Thank you.

**Bill:** Okay.
All right.
What a night.
What a panel, what a show.

**Man:** Yeah!

**Bill:** Okay.
I wish we could just lollygag here, but we have
important issues to get to.
Your book, Chris, always --
you know, you are one of the great writers, I have to
say.
I don't agree with everything in here.

**Christopher:** You're not supposed to.

**Bill:** Right.
It's about Henry Kissinger, and, you know, you're not
the first to say that he is responsible for a lot of the
atrocities in Indochina.
And of course, with the Bob Kerrey situation all in the
news, I've been hearing nothing but Vietnam the last
couple of weeks.
And I have to tell you, it bothers me that there is this
conventional wisdom that is in every article I hear,
every article I read, every news report I hear about,
"Vietnam was a wasted war.
We should never have gone." I have said many times
on this show, I thought it was a necessary war.
It was very nice for Ronald Reagan --
an actor playing the president --
to go over to the Berlin Wall and say, "Tear down that
wall!" That is not what won the Cold War.
That was a wonderful money shot.

**Christopher:** That's true.

**Bill:** It was a good photo op.
What won the Cold War was we being --
demonstrating to the bullies of the world that we would
put ourselves on the line and spend lives.
The Vietnam War didn't have to happen in Vietnam, but
it had to happen somewhere.

**Gene:** I think the problem --
sorry to interject.
I think the problem --
I saw the Brit --

[LC]

the respectful Brit.
But what I was gonna say was, I think there's a
problem with media.
Media basically warps all things.
I believe that media polarized America.
I was in college at that point, and so there was this kind
of ranting and raving back and forth between the far left
and the far right.
"Is this a politically motivated war?"

**Bill:** Right.

**Christopher:** "Is it a military --
" Who cares? The idea is, pragmatically speaking,
when are you gonna stop the guy with the hammer and
the sickle when he's knockin' on your door?

**Bill:** Right.

**Gene:** However, let's be pragmatic about this.
I mean --
and real.
America didn't just enter the war because we were the
good guys.
There were other issues.
There was oil and all that stuff.
But I do agree with the right --
although I don't perceive myself as that --
with, "You've got to stamp your foot down."

**Bill:** Yeah.

**Christopher:** It's always on whom.

[ Applause ]

Well, on whom will you --
on who is this foot to be stamped down? You say lives
have to be lost to prove your point --
our point.
Well, just take the case of Senator Kerrey.
That's 13 old ladies and women and children.
Did their lives have to be lost to make this point that the
United States --

**Bill:** Well, I mean, the Russian --

**Christopher:** No, I don't think so.
By 1968, Robert McNamara and Lyndon Johnson and
all the people running the war had all said to their
friends of the Senate, their friends of the CIA and the
FBI, "This war is over.
It's lost.
We should never have gotten into it.

[LC]

But we can't break that news to the American people
yet."

**Bill:** Right.

**Christopher:** Now, how is that gonna sound to people
whose sons were lost in Vietnam after the war had
been given up on by the political class? How is that
gonna sound?

**Dennis:** Those are legitimate questions.

**Christopher:** They are very --
it's nice of you to say so, but I haven't got my trousers
off yet.
Excuse me.

[ Laughter ]

**Dennis:** Is that a British term that I'm not familiar with?

**Whoopi:** Should I move over?
[ Laughter ]

**Christopher:** As I was saying to Mr. Prager, not yet.
Not yet.

**Whoopi:** Okay, all right.

**Christopher:** Not yet.
I'm grateful for him for telling me what I already know --
that these are legitimate questions.

In 1968, there was a peace agreement being made in
Paris by Lyndon Johnson and the U.S. government --
the elective government --
to begin an orderly withdrawal from what was obviously
a fiasco, if not a crime, in Vietnam.

The Nixon campaign went to the South Vietnamese
military leadership and said, "If you sabotage those
talks and pull out of them and wreck the 1968 elections
--

sabotage, undermine them, which would actually
happen --

then we'll give you a better deal.

We'll continue the war on your terms for four more
years." Look at the Kerrey stuff.

Look at the time.

Look at the place.

The time is '69, the war is being extended illegally and
secretly as a result of a secret deal involving Nixon and
Kissinger.

**Gene:** What do you mean by "illegally?" What war --

[L.C.]

Sometimes wasted lives are unwasted lives.

In Korea, they fought a battle called Hill 53.

And when it was over, they said, "It had no strategic
value.

Why did we fight it?" And the guy said, "That's the
point, it had no strategic value." We had to show them
we were willing to do that.

**Whoopi:** You know what? I'm sorry --

**Bill:** The Russians lost 20 million people in World War
II --

**Whoopi:** Unless you have --
for me, okay? Unless you have a damn good reason to
be somewhere, don't ask my --

**Dennis:** Well, what's a damn good reason?

**Whoopi:** Excuse me, let me finish my point.
Don't ask my brother to go and do it.

**Christopher:** Absolutely.

**Whoopi:** Don't ask my brother --
don't ask my brother to go and fight unless you can
explain --

**Dennis:** Why isn't it --

[ Talking over one another ]

**Dennis:** --
good reason.

**Whoopi:** Bob McNamara's book was very, very clear
about what went on.

And basically, Mr. McNamara said, "Look, we knew it
was over, and we did nothing about it." That's wasted
lives to me.

**Dennis:** Why isn't it a damn good reason --

**Whoopi:** That's what I'm talking about whenever I say
"Wasted lives."

[ Applause ]

That's what I mean.

**Christopher:** Good for you.

**Dennis:** Why is fighting Communism not a damn good
reason? Fighting Nazism was a damn good reason to

[cc]

sacrifice your brothers.
Why was fighting Communism morally different?

**Whoopi:** I'll tell you.
Because to me, I'm not sure that Communism is
necessarily a bad thing.

**Bill:** Come on.

**Gene:** Well, hold on.
I think --
wait.

[ Talking over one another ]

**Whoopi:** Let me --
you have to --
I've said it before.

**Dennis:** But that's a remarkable statement.

**Whoopi:** Well, it shouldn't be, because if you look at --

**Dennis:** They have murdered more people than the
Nazis did.

**Whoopi:** If you look at the bottom line of what Communism is, it is you and I working together for you and i, working together for --

**Bill:** That's the theory.

**Whoopi:** Okay, that's what I'm saying.

**Bill:** That's not what we were fighting.

**Whoopi:** Well, how do we know what we were fighting, Bill?

**Bill:** Because we knew what was --
oh, come on.

**Whoopi:** How do we know --

**Bill:** 'Cause we didn't know what --

**Whoopi:** Bill, when did we get into World War II? Did we get in while we knew the Jews were being eaten up by --
ooh, I'm sorry, I almost said the "F" word.

[Lc]

I'm neither Democrat or Republican.
I have issues with both those guys.
I think everybody's full of hot air.
So the question for all of us is --
if not there, where? That's the question for you.

**Bill:** I gotta take a break.
This is interesting, but I have to take a commercial.

[ Applause ]

[ Applause ]

**Bill:** All right.
What's that?

**Christopher:** We're not going to leave Vietnam just like
that, are we?

**Bill:** We're not going to leave Vietnam? That was our
original problem.
We couldn't leave Vietnam.
You want to say again?

**Christopher:** No.
I have an entry strategy.

**Bill:** An entry strategy?

**Christopher:** A term I hope you don't borrow from me.
No, he challenged me, and I should say it.

**Gene:** I was just asking.

**Christopher:** What should not be done against
communism? Nelson Mandela was arrested on
information given to the police by American Central
Intelligence Agency because they were fighting
Communism.
Are you for that? Is anything done against Communism
okay with you, would be my question?
[Talking over one another]

The war in Vietnam was a war fought by the
Vietnamese for independence against the Japanese,
against the French and the United States government.
They made a hideous mistake by lying repeatedly to
certain people of inheriting that terrible war.
And they threw away the lives of many, many
Americans.
They killed probably 3 million Vietnamese for nothing at
all.

[10]

And Bob Kerrey was ordered to throw away people.

**Bill:** But it wasn't for nothing at all.
That's where you're wrong.

**Whoopi:** What was it for?

**Bill:** It was so that Reagan could stand there and say, "Tear down this wall." And at that point, the Russians could go, "You know what? The Americans have proved to us that they are willing to stand up to the bully." If we had not fought Vietnam, Reagan couldn't have had his photo op, and this Cold War would never have ended.

**Christopher:** Who's the bully in the village when Bob Kerrey and his friends shoot 13 civilians? Who's the bully there? Under order. It was a free fire zone.

[ Talking over one another ]

**Gene:** What about the women in Dresden, were killed by Allied bombers?

**Christopher:** Do not profane the struggle against
Naziism.
Do not profane it, I repeat, by comparing it to the action
of someone who acts like a Nazi and rounds up
civilians and kills them.

[ Talking over one another ]

**Whoopi:** Here's the thing.
Here's the [bleep] about the whole thing.
When you send people to war, when you make young
men soldiers --
these are ordinary cats coming out of neighborhoods,
coming out of nice suburbs, and they're put into
extraordinary situations.
I'm afraid that I feel that Bob Kerrey probably did what
countless people did in Vietnam --
probably panicked and killed a whole lot of people.
Wait, wait, wait.

[ Talking over one another ]

**Bill:** I have a question for you.
Let me ask you --
there is evil in the world, you would agree? There is evil
and evil men?

[Lc]

right to shoot their students --

**Bill:** What are we talking about?
[Talking over one another]

What do you think it was like to live under a Communist
regime before Communism came to an end?

**Whoopi:** I'll tell you, in part, what it was like, because I
lived in East Germany.

**Bill:** You lived in East Germany?

**Whoopi:** Yes, I did.

Yes, I did.

And so when I say to you the things that I say, it comes
from a different place.

Do I think that Communism as it's worked by men
works, no.

Do I think that democracy often works in certain
societies? No.

We're seeing Russia implode 'cause it's not working.

We haven't given it enough time.

**Bill:** But it's not democracy.

**Whoopi:** Well, but they think it is, and we said it is.

And now it's altering.

There are changes happening in Cuba which everyone
is happy for.

We're still smoking our Cuban cigars, are we not?

**Bill:** Wait.

What year did you live in East Germany?

**Whoopi:** I lived in East Germany in 1979 then 1980
and 1981, and we snuck in.

**Bill:** And what was that like for a sister?

**Whoopi:** It was very, very interesting, 'cause it was all
artists.

We were living with artists.

And so they would talk to me and say, "Listen, can you
bring, the next time you come, can you bring this, this,
this and this." We came, and next year we brought
what we could.

We hung out, and we did theater.

We did theater with these East German artists who are,
you know, trying to figure out --

as youth always does --

because they're the children of the people who got

[Lc]

chopped off.

**Bill:** But did you not find yourself to be in a suffocating society where people were spied upon? Where people did not have freedom? Where people lived in a gray, morbid world.

**Whoopi:** Bill, let me tell you something about how it works.

If you've never known anything else, which a lot of the kids that we were working with did, 'cause we were young, then it seems perfectly normal.

**Dennis:** Would you say that about slavery?

**Whoopi:** Would I say -- if you worked.

**Dennis:** How do you defend a system because people didn't know something better?

**Whoopi:** Well, then, how do you defend it?

**Dennis:** Because, first of all, we do know something better.

**Gene:** Because there is a higher good, whether you know it exists or not.

**Whoopi:** Yes, but if you don't know, then your life, your everyday life --

**Dennis:** But they did know.

They did know.

They had TV.

That's why there was a wall built.

**Whoopi:** I can't answer, because I have five guys asking me a question.

Your question was, "How was it?" I said, for me, it was interesting because these guys did not act as though they were repressed and oppressed.

They did not move on an everyday level that way.

And when you ask me about slavery and would I defend slavery, you know --

in 1955, in Montgomery, Alabama --

I made a movie recently in the last couple years called "Long Walk Home." And when I went to make this movie, my attitude was, "If I had been here then, those people wouldn't have done this to me, because I would have stood up and told them." You know, these ladies who walked the six miles that way and six miles that way said to me, "You know what? We couldn't have

Rebecca Jordan

**From:** Richmond, Michelle (NBC, MSNBC) [Michelle.Richmond@MSNBC.COM]
**Sent:** Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:24 AM
**To:** 'rebecca.jordan@kainy.org'
**Subject:** TNWBW Transcript - Kissinger 6/13/01
**Importance:** Low

Richmond, Michelle

(NBC, MSNBC...

Hi Rebecca!

We have two different e-mail systems and I've sent this out to you both
ways...So you may get this twice.

--Michelle

THE NEWS WITH BRIAN WILLIAMS

June 13, 2001

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT
BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC ANCHOR: Something a bit less than a European vacation for the American president, who can't seem to escape critics halfway around the world. Also tonight, our live conversation with Henry Kissinger on the challenges that face the new administration.

A big decision may be in the works from the Bush White House on Vieques, the Puerto Rican island used as a bombing range by the U.S. Navy. Will the barrage go on?

The outrage in Washington, D.C. over what happened on a school class
trip to a local jail. Why some parents say their children have been
scarred. And new findings on marriage. How America's young people view
their future. Does tying the knot really mean it can never come undone?

ANNOUNCER: From NBC News, this is THE NEWS WITH BRIAN WILLIAMS.

WILLIAMS: Good evening. The sledding got a little tough today for President Bush in Europe, where a lot of people in the audience thought he had flown an awfully long way to tell them something that doesn't work. The subject was missile defense, the idea first raised by Ronald Reagan and immediately and forever branded Star Wars by its critics.

Those critics are still out there, as Bush found today. A lot of them
live in Europe. And they still say his idea won't work. Bush is pushing
hard. Others are pushing back during this European trip that must feel a
bit like the movie "Groundhog Day." The same issues, questions, and
protests keep appearing.

If it's Wednesday, it must be Brussels. And that's where our
reporting begins tonight with NBC News White House correspondent Campbell
Brown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

1

[1c]

CAMPBELL BROWN, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush today comes to NATO to give the alliance a hard sell, many in this room open skeptics of Bush's aggressive push to protect the U.S. and allies with a global missile defense shield.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's some nervousness. And I understand that. But it's beginning to be allayed when they hear the logic behind the rationale.

BROWN: The president stresses the Cold War days of America and Russia as bitter enemies are over, and in his own plainspoken style warns the greatest danger now comes from an attack by rogue nations like North Korea, Iran and Iraq.

BUSH: The new threats are threats based upon uncertainty, the threats that somebody who hates freedom or hates America or hates her allies or hates Europe will try to blow us up.

BROWN: But Bush's stance prompts demonstrations at NATO headquarters today, even a hang-gliding protester bearing the sign "Stop Star Wars." A senior White House adviser insists Bush has the support of at least seven NATO countries. Yet today, key allies Germany and France both expressed doubts over whether missile defense will even work. And Bush's eagerness to set aside the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty with Russia, an agreement that limits defensive missiles on both sides, a move some fear will rekindle the Cold War dynamic, fueling Russia's suspicions Bush is reeling his military superiority.

MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Europeans really want good relations with Russia. Russia is right next door. It's a big country with a lot of political instability and a lot of nuclear weapons that have not yet been properly secured.

BROWN: Appealing to those concerns, the president says his plan includes a commitment to reducing nuclear stockpiles. But Russia will be even more resistant. Bush makes his pitch when he meets with President Putin for the first time late this week.

(on camera): The president today also offers reassurance that U.S. will keep peacekeeping troops in the Balkans after suggesting during his campaign his goal was to bring U.S. troops home. Quoting Secretary of State Colin Powell, Bush told NATO allies, "We came in together. We will leave together."

Campbell Brown, NBC News, Brussels.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAMS: The traveling Bush White House was also mending fences and making a little news tonight in another controversy. It has to do with the Puerto Rican island of Vieques, where the U.S. Navy has maintained a bombing range for decades.

It has become, as you may know, a cause for protesters, who have been

2

[Lc]

demanding the U.S. stop the barrage. Tonight, they appear to have won.
Administration officials are telling NBC News the White House will announce
that the U.S. intends to close the range within two years by May 2003.

They say the president's new Navy Secretary Gordon England supports
the move, hoping apparently that the announcement would silence protesters
and allow the Navy to continue its training unimpeded for at least the next
two years while looking for another site. Now, in lieu of finding that
alternative site for the Navy right away, the decision to try to close the
bombing range appears to have more to do with White House politics and the
Hispanic vote in the U.S. than ensuring the Navy has a place to train.

Vice President Cheney faced criticism about the administration's
energy policies today at a speech to an energy trade group in Washington.
A Greenpeace protester shouted down from the balcony to ask the vice
president why the administration pulled out of the Kyoto global warming
treaty. The vice president shot back that, among other things, upholding
the treaty would be too expensive and that critics don't do enough to
endorse possible solutions like nuclear power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some of the same people who yell loudest about global warming and carbon dioxide emissions are also the first ones to scream when somebody says, "Gee, we ought to use nuclear power."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Vice President Cheney at that speech in Washington this
afternoon.

With more tonight on all things political, domestic, and overseas,
we
are joined this evening from Washington by Howard Fineman, NBC News
political analyst, and, of course, chief political correspondent for
"Newsweek" magazine.

Howard, foreign policy reviews for the new president, have at it.

HOWARD FINEMAN, NBC NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, so far in the
diplomatic community here with whom I've been talking, and among Democrats
on the Hill, the reviews aren't good. They say that President Bush is
proposing a very, very big idea, namely mobile missile defense, and
scrapping the theory of mutually assured destruction. And that's something
that they don't think he has standing to pursue.

There are two types of politicians, Brian, the hedgehog and the fox.

Bush is the hedgehog, pushing ahead on big ideas. He did it on tax policy
successfully, but he had standing there. Years as governor of Texas, a
campaign he steeped himself in the details of tax policy and economic
policy.

Here, he's proposing something very big that he doesn't have a lot
of
experience in. And among diplomats here in Washington that I talked to,
and among senators on Capitol Hill, Democrats such as Senator John Kerry,
who's an expert on foreign policy but who isn't usually one to shoot off
his mouth, he expressed to me today a lot of concern about the directions
that the president is taking on issues such as mobile missile defense and
global warming.

3

[LC]

And I think the Democrats feel that Bush's knowledge, curiosity, and ability to handle these big global issues is a potential weakness. And they don't see anything in this trip so far that they think is going to counter that.

WILLIAMS: The coverage, Howard, I think you'll agree, has been quite patronizing where the president's learning curve is concerned.

FINEMAN: Yes.

WILLIAMS: This president, as you point out correctly, who has been detail averse in the past, are they really believing that the tutorials haven't been enough and that he has not adequately read into the nuances of foreign policy?

FINEMAN: No, I think there's two different things, Brian. I think people think that he has been well briefed. And he's a diligent guy who is certainly focused now on a subject that he hadn't really focused on that much before.

My point about tax policy was he'd had years to be involved in it. This is new. What they're saying is that if he's going to take on a subject this big, namely throwing out 40 years' worth of nuclear deterrence theory, he's got to have a little more standing and a little more ability to talk to leaders of the world than he's yet developed because this is a very big deal that will require a lot of trust -- personal, country to country -- among all the European countries as well as Russia. And if you're going to propose something this big, you need to have the personal relationships and the diplomatic relationships to do it.

WILLIAMS: A lot of people, Howard, lately have been thinking of his father. Is he playing any role in the life and the administration of the son?

FINEMAN: Well, I think he's been giving some advice, both political and diplomatic. But I think this is George Bush's big statement of global policy in the way the tax bill was his big statement of domestic policy.

One thing about George W. Bush, he and his advisers do have an ability to look at old paradigms and say it's time to change them. I think there are a lot of people who -- serious people -- who question whether mutually assured destruction is necessarily the permanent way to assure peace on the planet. But the question is whether Bush has the ability to sell this case, both here at home and around the world, especially to a skeptical bunch of Europeans.

WILLIAMS: Howard Fineman of "Newsweek" magazine and NBC News. Howard, always a pleasure. Thanks for coming on.

FINEMAN: Sure, Brian.

WILLIAMS: The weather has been making news the past several days. This was another day of extremes across the United States.

What is left of what is now the costliest tropical storm in U.S. history, Allison, is still holding together and making its way east,

4

[Lc]

causing some major damage again. Meanwhile, a different system in the Midwest brought extreme heat to the Midwest and snow along the Rockies. NBC News correspondent Kelly O'Donnell has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY O'DONNELL, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A washout in Georgia, tonight in 14 counties a state of emergency declared, remnants of Allison, that stubborn spring storm, lingering over the mid-Atlantic.

DAVID REYNOLDS, NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE: I think the best word to describe Allison is persistent.

O'DONNELL: Expected to hang on another day, maybe two, drifting toward Washington, D.C. and Baltimore by Friday, the Carolinas bracing for high water.

REYNOLDS: The rainfall potential that is with the remnants of Allison is very significant and poses a very potential threat for more serious flooding for the Carolinas, as we've seen it over the last several days.

O'DONNELL: The wet mess claiming at least 31 lives in three states.

In Tallahassee, Florida, rushing waters washed a car carrying 18-year-old Elizabeth Roland (ph) and her boyfriend off the road into a drainage ditch, Roland's boyfriend swept three miles to his death. Roland, trapped in shoulder-deep water, survived. Today, her mother is overwhelmed.

CHARLENE SEIFF, FLOODING VICTIM'S MOTHER: She said, "I just hung on.
I just hung on. I did what they told me to." And they got her out.

O'DONNELL: Less dangerous but still causing damage, hail in Des Moines., windshields no match for the baseball-sized barrage. In Minnesota, no going, flights canceled.

(on camera): The next threat, severe weather expected to strike the plains, speeding on a wide path, here in Missouri, heading through the Dakotas, Minnesota to Oklahoma, hail on its way with winds moving as fast as freeway traffic, tornadoes a possibility.

(voice-over): From temperamental spring to a reprise of winter out west, snow in Utah, more falling in Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana, where the thermometer reads an icy 30-some degrees. Back in the southeast, as Allison extends her say, prolonging the misery for millions, forecasters not optimistic she'll leave the East Coast soon.

Kelly O'Donnell, NBC News, Kansas City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAMS: Now for more on the tag-team weather systems that are pummeling parts of this country and the dynamic in the atmosphere that is causing so much severe weather of late, we are joined tonight by Larry Vannozzi, meteorologist with the NOAA National Weather Center. He's with us tonight from Fort Worth, Texas.

Larry, in a way, it was kind of the perfect storm in the confluence of weather events that caused Allison. What's going on in the atmosphere?

5

[LC]

LARRY VANNOZZI, NATIONAL WEATHER CENTER METEOROLOGIST: Well, a whole bunch of things are going on. We've got SOME wild springtime weather with tropical weather in the form of Allison along the Gulf Coast and now the East Coast, also potential for severe weather, some tonight, some tomorrow, in the middle part of the country, and then still yet some snow out in the west.

WILLIAMS: Is it steering currents above the U.S.? Is it that the seasons have changed to bring this on?

VANNOZZI: Well, it's kind of the end of winter, I suppose, and beginning of summer. Summer, of course, brings it with the hurricane season, which started, at least as far as residents along the Gulf Coasts and East Coasts are aware, June 1. So, here just two weeks ago, we started the heart of hurricane season. And really, Allison got us off to a very fast start.

WILLIAMS: A whole lot of people seemed ill prepared for the effects and the strength of Allison. Was that simply because she didn't have the title hurricane before her name?

VANNOZZI: Well, that could be. I mean, certainly you don't expect to have the kind of torrential, these unbelievable rainfall totals that we saw along the southeast Texas coast, also into Louisiana, where some places had 36 inches of rain, just an incredible amount of rain. You almost never expect that kind of rainfall.

This is also an unusual storm in that it moved into the upper Texas coast, moved up into east Texas, then back down toward Houston. So it really struck Houston twice. But it's really quite amazing what a tropical storm and then something even weaker than that, a tropical depression, the kind of destruction that it can cause.

WILLIAMS: I understand what's left of Allison is heading to North Carolina. For how long can they expect rain?

VANNOZZI: It looks like some extreme rainfalls are possible in mostly the east part of North Carolina tonight and through tomorrow, probably even into Friday with that rain moving up into the east part of Virginia by tomorrow, later on tomorrow, then also Friday as well. And then potentially just less rain than that moving up into the northeast by Friday night and then the weekend.

WILLIAMS: And, Larry, when people ask you about the outlook for summer, difficult as it is, what do you say to them?

VANNOZZI: Well, the NOAA National Weather Service hurricane outlook for this season calls for basically a typical year. And in that, we mean 11 named storms. That would be tropical storms or hurricanes.

Six of those 11 would probably be hurricanes. And then three of those six have the potential to be major hurricanes. That would be category three, four, and five hurricanes with winds over 110 miles an hour. So that is the outlook along the -- for the hurricane season.

6

[LC]

Really, the main thing is for everybody along the coast is be prepared. Just be prepared...

WILLIAMS: Larry Vannozzi...

VANNOZZI: ... Just be prepared and be ready for hurricane season.

WILLIAMS: ... we will send the message out. I was just going to thank you, Larry...

VANNOZZI: OK, thanks.

WILLIAMS: ... Vannozzi, meteorologist for the NOAA National Weather Center. Thank you very much for being with us.

There is a lot more to tell you about as we continue this Wednesday night, including the jailhouse field trip designed to scare students in Washington. But did it end up harming them instead? Up next, a special report tonight from "Dateline NBC." Also, thousands of Chicago schoolchildren spending the summer back in the classroom. Tonight why, summer school enrollment is on the rise.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: New evidence to report tonight that the crime rate is still falling and falling fast. And the federal government is proud of it. A Justice Department survey shows violent crime fell last year by a record 15 percent, the largest drop since the survey began in 1973. The property crime rate fell by 10 percent.

We should point out the figure for violent crime does not include murder. And it appears to contradict FBI figures released last month that show the violent crime rate is virtually unchanged nationwide.

In New York City, there's a settlement to report in a class action lawsuit brought by people who say they were forced to undergo illegal strip searches by police. A federal judge approved the $50 million deal today. The suit alleged the city violated the rights of tens of thousands of New Yorkers who were strip searched in jail after being arrested for nonviolent misdemeanor charges. The city stopped the searches back in January.

In Washington, another lawsuit has been filed over strip searches in a city jail. This time, though, the suit was filed by students who say they were strip searched while on a class field trip with their school. That story tonight from NBC News correspondent Hoda Kotbe in this report from "Dateline NBC".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HODA KOTBE, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are some of the meanest streets in Washington, D.C. Crime, drugs, and too many kids who end up in prison. So Evans Junior High School planned a field trip for 12 boys, some of whom it felt were beyond control.

They were going to the D.C. jail. The idea was to scare them away from ending up behind bars for real.

(on camera): The students didn't come to this jail because they had been convicted of any crime. In fact, some say what happened to them once

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they got here was the real offense. When it was all over, there were disturbing revelations, jobs lost, a school system turned on its head, and the threat of a multimillion-dollar lawsuit.

MARIAN DAVIDSON, MOTHER: I signed a letter of permission slips to go on a tour of the D.C. jail, not for my child to be humiliated, embarrassed, hurt.

KOTBE (voice-over): Marian Davidson's (ph) 14-year-old son was on the field trip, although he says he never had been in trouble at school. Two other boys we spoke with had been suspended, including 15-year-old Alan Thomas (ph). He told us he wasn't ready for the lesson he was about to learn.

ALAN THOMAS, STUDENT: We was all lined up side by side like we all sitting right now.

KOTBE: Thomas was about to be singled out. He says one minute they were listening to a lecture by the corrections officers. The next, he and others were ordered by those officers to take their clothes off.

THOMAS: So when I went in there, they told me to strip.

KOTBE (on camera): Did you unbutton your shirt, take off your pants, do what he said?

THOMAS: Yeah.

KOTBE: So you're standing there buck naked?

THOMAS: Yes.

KOTBE: Nothing on, not a stitch of clothing on?

THOMAS: Nothing on.

KOTBE: Did they make you bend over?

THOMAS: Yeah.

KOTBE (voice-over): While the kids were not touched after they took off their clothes, they say they were visually examined by the officers while they stood naked in front of inmates and their fellow students.

DAVIDSON: That's not the way you discipline any child.

KOTBE (on camera): You think that's way over the top?

DAVIDSON: Yes, it is, very much so.

KOTBE (voice-over): So did many in Washington. The school district and the jail were hit with a wave of public outrage. But if you think the three jail officers involved are sorry for what they did, think again.

KARL WHITE, CORRECTIONS OFFICER: What's worse, being humiliated or being dead?

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KOTBE: Karl White (ph), one of the corrections officers at the jail

that day, says the point was to give the boys a small taste of the daily
indignities of life in prison so they would never end up there.

WHITE: I want to stop kids from getting killed. I want to stop
kids
from going to jail. And if I can help do that in any way, that's my whole
mission.

KOTBE (on camera): Were the skids scared, Karl?

WHITE: I think we kind of got our point across.

KOTBE (voice-over): Jerome West (ph) has worked at the D.C. jail
for
14 years.

(on camera): Didn't you step way, way, way over the line?

JEROME WEST, D.C. JAIL WORKER: No, I don't think so.

KOTBE: Where is the line, then?

WEST: The line is to stop them from coming to jail, any means
necessary.

KOTBE: So whatever it takes?

WEST: If that's what it takes.

KOTBE (voice-over): Although the D.C. Department of Corrections
says
it is not aware of any prior strip search incidents, the officers we spoke
with say this wasn't the first. And this time, they say, a teacher not
only watched it happen, but approved.

(on camera): Did at any time any teachers, any officials with the
school, say to you, "Stop what you're doing. This is too much."

WEST: No. They shook my hand at the end.

KOTBE: Shook your hand?

WEST: "You're doing a good job. Thank you."

KOTBE: A teacher was quoted as saying that they didn't know this
was
going to happen. They didn't ask for it to happen. Are they lying?

WEST: Yes.

KOTBE: Flat-out lying?

WEST: Flat-out.

KOTBE (voice-over): The D.C. Department of Corrections gave
"Dateline" this memorandum in which the school asks for the students to,
quote, "experience the way they will live if punished by the law." No
matter whose idea it was, the Department of Corrections says the three
officers we spoke with used extremely poor judgment. And it has fired them

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and the warden.

The school employee who wrote the memo and the teacher who was with her on the trip have been suspended pending an investigation. They turned down our request for an interview. The school's principal has also been suspended.

Attorney Wayne Cohen, who represents some of the boys, says that's not enough. He says he's suing for $4 million per child.

(on camera): Did they really go through $4 million worth of humiliation?

WAYNE COHEN, ATTORNEY: I have to put a number on this case. And I have no idea from child to child what the true damages are. All of these families are out for one thing, and that's to make sure this doesn't happen down the road.

KOTBE (voice-over): Ironically, despite the controversial methods, or perhaps because of them, these kids say they got the message that jail is no place to be.

(on camera): What lesson did you learn while you were standing there buck naked?

THOMAS: Not to get locked up.

KOTBE: Some kids need a wakeup call. What's wrong with this wakeup call?

DAVIDSON: Be that as it may, you don't have them going to places and being strip searched like that. No, I mean, it's just ridiculous. It's absurd is what it is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAMS: "Dateline NBC" correspondent Hoda Kotbe reporting for us tonight.

When we come back, why so many Chicago students are spending this summer back in the classroom. And later on, what they are searching for, the new stats, the new beliefs on marriage in America.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: For the second time since the death of her husband, the widow of seven-time NASCAR champion Dale Earnhardt has had to defend his right to privacy in court, specifically trying to keep his autopsy photos private and not allowing news media outlets to view them. Today in the second court challenge, a decision.

A Florida judge ruled a web site and a student newspaper cannot have access to the photos. The judge says making them public would cause pain for the Earnhardt family and is a serious invasion of privacy.

There is deep concern tonight in Chicago among parents of school-age

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children. They are worried that, in a word, Chicago's schools are terrible. A record number of students there are headed to summer school, almost half of third graders in Chicago. The city says it's because test standards have changed. But not all the parents are buying that. Our report tonight from NBC News correspondent Suzanne Malveaux.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Wilford (ph) family enjoying one of their favorite summer activities, the zoo. But for 9-year-old Tranet (ph), these days are soon to end. No summer vacation, instead summer school.

TRANET WILFORD, STUDENT: What I'd rather do for the summer is be outside to play with my friends and be at the beach and everything.

MALVEAUX: Her mother disappointed too.

MRS. WILFORD, MOTHER: It feels like a punishment to me.

MALVEAUX: Tranet among a record 43 percent of Chicago's third graders required to go to summer school in order to be promoted to the next grade. This year, more than 29,000 third, sixth, and eighth graders in Chicago's public school system mandated to take summer classes, up 16 percent from last year overall.

Why? Because they failed to meet the required cutoff score on the standardized Iowa test used for promotion. School administrators insist the dramatic increase in summer school enrollment is the result of raising that cutoff bar each year.

PAUL VALLAS, OUTGOING CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOLS CHIEF: Obviously, if you're going to raise the promotion standards, more kids are going to have to go to summer school.

MALVEAUX: But for parents, the trend is alarming.

JULIE WOESTHOFF, PARENTS UNITED FOR RESPONSIBLE EDUCATION: We don't think that five weeks of summer school can really make up for a year of what might have been an inadequate education.

MALVEAUX: Julie Woesthoff and a group of parents sued Chicago schools two years ago for using the Iowa test as the sole criteria for promotion. Fourteen-year-old Jason Graham (ph) was a victim of that system. The Chicago honor roll student with perfect attendance since kindergarten wasn't allowed to graduate with his eighth grade class because his standardized test score fell just shy of the cutoff.

JASON GRAHAM, STUDENT: I was going to walk across the stage, get my diploma, shake all my teachers' hands, then go out, do all what I wanted to do. But it didn't happen.

MALVEAUX: So parents protested the policy that was aimed at cracking down on social promotion. Now, the compromise, a new promotion policy that allows children who fail the test to go on to the next grade, provided they go to summer school and get at least a C.

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(on camera): But some educators argue that the increase in summer school enrollment isn't necessarily a bad thing, a chance for struggling students to attend smaller classes and get more teacher attention. But Chicago, like other major cities, is now relying more heavily than ever on summer vacation time to make up for what students aren't learning during the year.

Suzanne Malveaux, NBC News, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAMS: And coming up next as we continue here tonight, a closer look at what 20-somethings expect from marriage. Among our guests, best-selling author John Gray, when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: We have a very interesting new report out tonight on the changing attitudes about marriage. With the marriage rate declining in this country, the study shows 20-somethings do want to get married, but their checklist for finding the perfect mate may be a tad unrealistic. Details now from NBC News correspondent Anne Thompson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNE THOMPSON, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The institution of marriage on shaky ground, the marriage rate in a 50-year decline, Americans waiting longer than ever before to walk down the aisle. And now a new study fueling sociologists' fears that young people are setting perhaps impossibly high standards for taking the plunge, 94 percent of 20-somethings looking not just for a mate, but for a soul mate.

JOANNA FICO, 20-SOMETHING: I'm looking for the entire package.

THOMPSON: Joanna Fico's (ph) attitude is typical of her generation, the 27-year-old technical trainer searching for the one person right for her.

FICO: I don't want to settle. I don't want to find someone that's just OK. I really do want to find someone that is spectacular and who is my soul mate.

THOMPSON: As a result, factors that used to play a big role in marriage are receding. With more women pursuing careers, an overwhelming 80 percent of women say it's more important to have a husband who can talk about his feelings than one who makes a good living. Only 42 percent of men and women think it's important to find a spouse from the same religion.

And just 16 percent say the main purpose of marriage is to have children, all of which study author David Popenoe says are changing the very idea of marriage.

DAVID POPENOE, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY SOCIOLOGY PROFESSOR: You have a kind of super relationship in which you're going to stay together for life, not only that but somehow unite your soul with another person. So it's a high standard.

THOMPSON: A high standard, Popenoe says, elevated in part by a strong fear of divorce. Dante Hall (ph), a 24-year-old single accountant, thinks

12

[LC]

finding a soul mate is the key to making marriage work.

DANTE HALL, 20-SOMETHING: If everyone was with their soul mate, I don't feel like the divorce rate would be even a material amount.

THOMPSON (on camera): And now state governments are stepping in to strengthen the bonds made at the altar, Arizona, Florida, and Oklahoma just some of the states spending taxpayer dollars on marriage education.

DIANE SOLLEE, COALITION FOR MARRIAGE, FAMILY, AND COUPLES EDUCATION:

We want to help them keep their soul mate their soul mate by teaching them the behaviors that will keep that soul mate partnership healthy and thriving.

THOMPSON (voice-over): In 2001, the perception of marriage is changing. But the goal is still the same, finding the key to happily ever after.

Anne Thompson, NBC News, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAMS: For more on this, we are joined now by the co-author of this marriage study, David Popenoe, who we just saw on Anne Thompson's report. He's a sociology professor at Rutgers and is co-director of the think tank there called the National Marriage Project. He's with us from Trenton, New Jersey.

And with us this evening from San Francisco, John Gray, best-selling author of the "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" series. His latest book is entitled "Practical Miracles From Mars and Venus."

And, John, I'd like to begin with you. Why isn't it common sense that of course people would be looking for a soul mate? You wouldn't want to marry a police officer or your boss or your mother or your law partner.

JOHN GRAY, AUTHOR: Well, they're making a distinction. This is a generation, the 20-somethings are a generation that grew up in broken families. So they're a lot more hesitant. And they're concluding that if I find the right person, then it's going to turn out because their parents told them, which was possibly correct, that they weren't right for each other.

So they're now saying, "I'm going to find the person who's right for me." But that's unrealistic because once again we're setting a standard to find someone perfect as opposed to someone that's not perfect but we work at our communication skills, we work at the relationship, and make it work.

It still requires work to make a relationship work if we want it to reach the standards that people are looking for today.

WILLIAMS: So, John, could it not develop into a soul mate relationship over time if nurtured correctly?

GRAY: Absolutely. I think when people fall in love, they make the mistake of thinking, "This is my soul mate." You need to fall in love. Then you need to test the relationship for a while. Your doubts come up

13

[LC]

after a while. You stay with it for a few years or at least a year until issues come up and you're able to resolve those issues successfully.

Then one morning you wake up and you say, "This is the person I want to share my life with." That's a soul mate. But even then, we have to keep remembering that a soul mate doesn't mean that they're perfect. They're perfect for us, but they're going to challenge us.

If they're right for us, there's going to be attraction. And attraction comes from differences. If two people are just the same, there will be no attraction.

WILLIAMS: David, what else from this study should we know?

POPENOE: Well, I think one interesting finding was that 88 percent of these young singles in their twenties said that there was a person out there waiting for them, a special person, a soul mate. And that's quite remarkable that people would think there is one person waiting out there that they're going to -- if they can only find them, it's going to bring them lifetime happiness.

WILLIAMS: Well, people are losing hope, however, because of the divorce rate that they grew up with.

POPENOE: Well, that's true. I mean, that's why they're so desperately looking for just this right person. But in a way, as John Gray points out, it's liable to backfire. And if they really want a long-term marriage, why, one ought to be a little bit more realistic going into it.

WILLIAMS: David, talk about gender differences in the respondents.

POPENOE: You know there, were none. Both men and women, 94 percent of each, said that first and foremost, they were looking for a soul mate. That really surprised us a lot.

WILLIAMS: Now, John, that must surprise you as well.

GRAY: No, I think that that's very common. My oldest daughter is 27. And she just got married, and she found her soul mate. That's the term today.

It's a more romanticized version of the old term, which was find your mate, find the right person. Now it's a soul mate, as if finding the right person is going to magically make the relationship last a lifetime. And that's an illusion.

It still takes -- I love the idea that some of the states are doing now where they give marriage preparation classes. We have to -- my youngest daughter is having to take her driver's license test. She has to have all this training to do that. Well, for marriage, we should also have trainings for that.

WILLIAMS: Well, John, is it generational here? Do you blame the news media? Or do you blame solely what you cited earlier, and that is a bad example from what people grow up with, a marriage that didn't work in their

14

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home?

GRAY: Well, you know, a lot of people aren't aware of this fact. In 1969, the government legislated no-fault divorce. The next year is when we went from 10 percent divorce statistics to 50 percent. And it has stayed that way ever since.

So there was always a kind of dissatisfaction in marriage. But you couldn't really easily leave a marriage. But suddenly when it became easier to leave a marriage, and when women were more independent, economically independent, then the women initiated leaving the marriages. And about 90 percent of the marriages were initiated by women breaking up because they said, "You know, I want more."

And that's another reason for our new image of marriage is that as women are more independent, they're saying, "I don't just want a provider, I want someone who I'm in love with, that we can live in love with." And so what we have to learn to do is -- falling in love is automatic. But once we fall in love, we tend to fall out of love. That's the time when we have to take classes, learn to work on our communication, realize that relationship isn't a fairyland. There's differences. You have to work with them.

Then you live in love. And it's real love instead of falling in love with somebody and you don't really know who they are.

WILLIAMS: David, what evidence have you that this is a generation willing to do that groundwork, take classes and all else that is expected?

POPENOE: Well, one thing is that we asked these young people in focus groups around the country, "What do you think we could do to improve the situation?" Because they all desperately want to have good marriages, they're just not quite sure how to go about it.

And the one thing they came up with was marriage education classes.

Nobody has told us anything about how to have a good marriage. And many of us don't come from families where there were good marriages. Some people have never even seen a good marriage. So there's a tremendous educational job to be done here.

WILLIAMS: David Popenoe, John Gray, interesting stuff tonight, gentlemen. Thank you both for coming on.

One British couple that exchanged vows over the weekend will have some especially memorable wedding photos. On their way to the reception at a country club resort, they bumped into Bill Clinton, who was getting ready for the first round of golf for the day. The former president stopped to wish the couple well and pose for some pictures.

Up next, getting priorities right when it comes to foreign policy, a conversation tonight with Dr. Henry Kissinger when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: We return now to our top story, President Bush's trip to Europe. On that topic, we're fortunate to be joined tonight by former

15

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Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. Dr. Kissinger has a new book hitting bookstores tomorrow. It is titled "Does America Need a Foreign Policy: Toward a Diplomacy for the 21st Century." He's with us tonight from New York.

And, Dr. Kissinger, earlier Howard Fineman from "Newsweek" quoted Senator John Kerry -- and we'll paraphrase -- as saying that this new president hasn't read in to foreign policy enough, has not mastered the necessary minutiae enough. What's your reaction?

HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't agree with that.
I don't think the president has to know every last minutiae. The president has to understand what his fundamental objectives are and what his priorities are. And I substantially agree with the priorities that President Bush has set for our European relations.

WILLIAMS: Has there been a danger, in your view, with all the freelancing going on around the world, as situations change -- the Balkans comes to mind -- that foreign policy would become an oxymoron?

KISSINGER: Well, I don't know what you mean by freelancing. But you mean on the part of the president?

WILLIAMS: On the part of American administrations, let's say, perhaps not following years of precedent in foreign policy.

KISSINGER: Well, the problem is when we get involved someplace, even if the immediate motive is good, we need to have a longer-range view on how the situation is going to evolve and whether the problem we're dealing with can be dealt with by purely military means.

I think in the Balkans, now that we are there, we should not leave unilaterally. And I'm glad that the president changed his position on that and has stated that he will do it with the Europeans.

But on the other hand, he was right in pointing out that some sort of political solution has to be found. And we have to find some framework so that we don't wind up as an occupation force forever, especially in Kosovo.

WILLIAMS: How do you answer your own question posed by your title, "Does America Need a Foreign Policy?"

KISSINGER: Yes, I think America needs a foreign policy because the conditions have changed so fundamentally from the Cold War. And America plays such a preeminent role now that we need to bring the politics of foreign policy in line with the economics, which have already become global.

WILLIAMS: I have to get you on record. Christopher Hitchens, as you no doubt know, is out with a new book called "The Trial of Henry A. Kissinger." It is very rough on you. It is a book devoted to criticism of you. It calls you -- contends you were a double agent during the 1968 presidential campaign.

KISSINGER: Yeah, I know of these charges. And I'm not going to

16

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deal
with Christopher Hitchens. He's collected everything that's ever been
said, has given it his own twist. He's a man who has attacked Mother
Teresa, Jackie Kennedy, has said the holocaust never existed. And I'm not
going to do him the favor of get into a debate with him.

WILLIAMS: All right, well, we have you on record, then.

Let's focus our attention now on the Middle East. The Bush
administration has now sent a special envoy. In effect, they have done
what -- the role Dennis Ross filled in the Clinton years. George Tenet,
who runs the CIA, is over there. We have a cease-fire. What is the
prognosis?

KISSINGER: I don't think that George Tenet is playing exactly the
same role as Dennis Ross did. Dennis Ross is a very distinguished
diplomat, but he got so involved in the negotiations that he became a party
himself. And he was indistinguishable almost from the negotiators.

George Tenet is somebody who in the nature of his job, namely CIA
director, can only come in as a fireman, deal with one specific issue,
which is the cease-fire, and then force the parties to go on from there.
George Tenet is not the permanent American mediator.

WILLIAMS: Right. Right.

KISSINGER: It was a good idea that we would stand apart for a while
and let the parties come to the conclusion of what is not solvable by
force.

WILLIAMS: The problem is, of course, by standing apart you let a
lot
of people kill each other.

KISSINGER: Well, but by being in there in the degree that we were
before, even more people got killed.

WILLIAMS: About Mr. Ross, do you believe that in the Middle East,
perhaps foreign policy in general, it was one of the hallmarks of the
Clinton administration to get involved in -- here comes that word again --
the minutiae, the details?

KISSINGER: Well, I think that President Clinton, for very noble
motives, thought he could bring a conclusive to a war, to a conflict,
that's been going on for decades, that he could do it in one week at Camp
David with his persuasive skills. And in fairness, he was lured into it
also by the Israeli prime minister, who got over-optimistic.

But as a result, the situation -- when you deal with holy places,
that
is a problem that is by definition unsolvable. So the attempt to settle
everything together made it in a funny way insoluble. And then we got too
much involved in all the little details so that a sense of perspective was
lost.

WILLIAMS: Finally, we led the broadcast tonight with George W. Bush
trying to sell Star Wars over in Europe. They weren't buying what he was
selling. The system, by all evidence, does not work. How do you see its
progress?

17

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KISSINGER: With all due respect, we don't know what will work or
what
doesn't work because they're still in the stage where they're looking at
various options, nor can it be solved in one visit of the president. All
the president can do at this point is to lay out our philosophy of why we
think it's needed.

It will take months to come to an agreement on it. And I'm fairly
confident that they will come up with a technical solution. Of course, if
they can't, if they can't come up with a technical solution, there's
nothing to sell.

WILLIAMS: All right, then. One man's view, former Secretary of
State
Henry Kissinger, thank you very much for coming on tonight.

KISSINGER: Glad to be here.

WILLIAMS: We're going to take a break. And we're going to look at
the morning papers when we come back. But first, a look at what happened
on Wall Street today. The Dow dropped almost 77 points. The Nasdaq was
down 48. And we'll be back with more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Taking a look at the morning papers, there is good news
for
those who like to transact business while in the air. Passengers on
American, United, and Delta Airlines should be able to check their e-mail
mid-flight. The three airlines announced a partnership with Boeing today
to develop a system that will allow travelers to use the Internet while on
board.

Special antennas will connect with satellites. People can surf the
Net. They will have to use their own computers, of course. It will cost
20 bucks an hour and will be available starting next year on mostly long
distance flights, especially at first.

"USA Today" reports former Vice President Al Gore has revealed plans
to open a permanent office in Nashville next month. During the
presidential campaign, you'll recall, he did it, it was said, largely for
appearances to get the campaign out of Washington.

That didn't keep him from losing his home state in the race. He has
announced he will teach full semesters at Fisk and Middle Tennessee State
in the fall.

And the "Boston Globe" reports the great hometown Cinderella story,
Ray Bourque, played with the Boston Bruins for 20 years. He asked to be
traded so he could have a shot at winning the Stanley Cup. Well, he went
back to Boston today. Even though he's with the Colorado Avalanche now, he
went back. And 15,000 people gathered to see their hometown hero, the man
who happens to plays for an out-of-town team.

We have our own front page headline around here this evening. We
announce today that his broadcast will be moving from 9:00 p.m. to 8:00
p.m. on MSNBC. We hope our new hour is a welcome change for all of those
of you who depend on us for the news of this day. We will remain on CNBC
at 10:00. The move will take effect July 9.

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That is our broadcast at 9:00 and 10:00 p.m. here tonight. We sure
hope to see you tomorrow evening.

I'm Brian Williams, NBC News. For all of us here who helped put
this
broadcast together tonight, good night and thank you for being with us.

END

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