["A. M. S. T. U. C. S. C. S. C. S. C. S. C. S. C. S. C. S. C. S

Request for a copy of the report to
the Navy, Navy or Naval
Operations Staff

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sect. 3.6

By: KHLW NASHA, DATED: 5/13/04

K: I don't know whether this indicates a joint plan, or a lateral decisions on Egypt or whatever it means, but we'll talk about it. I just want you to know that now.

D: ~~Now I want to see your appointment~~ I have three appointments before 1 o'clock unless you prefer. . .

K: No it was not urgent. I just want to talk to you five minutes about yesterday. I want to see whether we can get that interpretive statement - it looks all right to me.

D: OK. 3:30 is all right with you?

K: For about half an hour.

D: If 12:00 is all right I could come at 12 o'clock.

K: No, I can't do it then. Let's do it at 3:30 and I'll keep my next appointment waiting a little bit and we'll make another date then soon.

D: OK. And Henry I have a personal request. Yesterday I received from Haig this letter written by the President. I think it's a good letter, but the first page we put ink on it by accident, I should say. It was by accident and it's marked by ink. Would it be possible to retype the first page on the blank paper of the White House.

K: Oh sure, I'll have it for you this afternoon.

D: Only first page.

K: Otherwise the contents all right.

D: Yes. Because tomorrow I will have a diplomatic pouch. I already sent of course. . . .

K: I'll have it retyped and hand it to you this afternoon.

D: OK. Henry, I'll see you at the office or the usual office.

K: The usual place.

D: Thank you very much.

The President's Office of the Vice-Chairman
of the Staff of the Vice-Chairman

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sect. 3.6

By: J. M. W. NASA Date: 5/13/74

TELCOM

Joe Kraft/Kissinger

11:48 a.m. - 7/20/72

K: Hello.

JK: Henry.

K: Joe, how are you?

JK: Pretty pie-eyed and weak.

K: I'm going to start writing columns if you're going to do my business.

JK: I'm not sure I did much of your business, did I?

K: I don't know. Le Duc Tho tells me you gave him a message for me and I know I told you to tell him something but I forgot what it was.

JK: It wasn't exactly a message. No, you see I told Ishem exactly what it was, didn't they tell you?

K: No.

JK: Well, you didn't give me a message and I didn't give him a message. You had told me at lunch Henry. . .

K: No, no, I know I told you something. You didn't do something wrong and I know the spirit of what I was trying to tell you.

JK: You told me at lunch and what I told to him was - You said to me Look, if I met with Chou En-lai and he said before we talk you have to get out of Formosa, we never would have gotten anywhere. I was able to make progress with him because he identified where he wanted to be five or ten years in the future and then we were able to reach it by steps.

K: Exactly.

JK: He seemed rather startled by that - that you had said that. And he said to me, "Mr. Kissinger never asked me about the future." And I said, "Well, maybe you ought to ask him."

K: They are something. They really are something else.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

It appears there is open literature in
the field of Science Fictional
Paperspace Space?

By: JKL V NASA, Dated: 5/13/04

2

**JK:** They really are. Any signs of - well, I assume they want the bombing to stop and the blockade to be lifted. Anything more than that?

**K:** I can't tell yet. I really can't. You know they really think that the world revolves around them. I mean I can get as much from private talks when I walk around the garden with him and he sort of tells me what he sees ahead.

**JK:** They are certainly preparing for the worst. And they do - this is one of the things they really have tunnel vision. They have been in fighting so long on that line that they don't understand that the world has changed; that the center of gravity isn't where it used to be. It's going to take a long time for that message to sink in but I think it's worth it trying to create the atmosphere for them at least. One of the things I said was that in diplomacy the hardest thing is not to convince your opponent; sometimes the hardest thing is not to convince your principal.

**K:** That's all very useful.

**JK:** And I was sort of surprised at the ________ on his part of now about to leave the sign of recognition. And my impression is that he doesn't have the going so easy either and in many ways when they attack you they are really attacking him. I don't know if you noticed the personal attacks on you.

**K:** No I haven't. Have they been attacking me? I found one but that's all.

**JK:** There's only one that I know of. It was called to my attention by somebody there. And I have the feeling it really didn't have a lot to do with you. I also have the impression that when they asked me they were prepared to do something and that that was before the President's press conference of the 29th. The press conference of the 29th really threw them off.

**K:** Yeh, but when they make a big decision they're not thrown off.

**JK:** Well, look I think they're back on it again whatever it was.

**K:** It probably didn't help any.

The president of the open house
of the Vice President of the
Republic of Ireland

CLASSIFIED
E.O 12939, Sect. 3.6

By: KJLW, NASA Date: 5/13/04

3

JK: It didn't but if you could somehow soften the stand - not soften the stand but indicate to them what it is you're saying about the dikes. It's very clear to me whether you want to or not you're hitting dikes. Now look I think they put ______ on dikes, I think they put anti-aircraft on dikes; I think they run them right next to roads and railroads so it's impossible not to hit them.

K: But it's also true that if we wanted to hit dikes they'd be under water now.

JK: That's certainly true. I kept telling them that the United States Air Force believes in ______ a true team. And you know the dikes are a hydraulic system and if they wanted to hit them they wouldn't do it half away. That's very clear. Look, I think the President - I don't know what he was talking about exactly but Olberg clearly is a liar.

K: What was the President talking about?

JK: He said in the press conference, as I recollect, information published about hitting the dikes was wrong. You made an inquiry and the information was wrong and he referred to comments by the Swedish Ambassador and the AFP man. Now the Swedish Ambassador's comment was really wrong. Olberg said he had seen things and he left the country before it happened. The AFP guy was right however.

K: My current information is that probably we hit some dikes. Certainly we hit the sleuth gate of one dike, that we thought was a bridge. That is what I know, but I also know it is absolutely not our policy to hit dikes and therefore when they are hit it is either because from the air something is mistaken or because there is some military target close by and the bomb goes off.

JK: Then put it that way - particularly on that one sleuth gate which is the one they take us all to sea. Undoubtedly that's a ______. Why don't we come clean on that?

K: We can, there's no reason not to.

JK: The kind of statements that Henkin and Bray have been making.

K: Yeh, well, I'll get that cleared up because I think the truth is the best policy. Well, when are you going to be down here?

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.6

By: K.H. W. NASA Date: 5/13/04

4

JK: I'm very tired and I'm going to stay here for a while. I have a series that'll be running until next Sunday. You're not going to make me look terrible again because I really - they impressed me as being very, very harsh, very very hard line. Very, very self-centered and more so than I really thought.

K: I would give myself an option out on the negotiations. I'm saying this as a friend of you. I am not saying that they will succeed. I am saying this strictly for your guidance. They were more on the track one other time that I thought they were very serious. Now that still doesn't mean that we can bridge the gaps, but I do.

JK: You have to make some decisions now pretty hurriedly now, don't you?

K: Why?

JK: Because I assume they want the bombing to stop and the blockade to be lifted.

K: Well, there's no great pressure in any direction right now. No, I must say . . . . you know how they are. I think they would not settle - when they make a clear cut proposition even it isn't clear cut. You analyze the 7 points of the ______ clarification in terms of negotiating documents. If we wanted to accept them - you know they are full of unbelievable ambiguities. You just think about them sometime in terms of putting them into a document to be signed and I'm talking about their proposals. We have no intention of accepting them. So when I am talking . . . . . . I must say if you flatly to say this thing was totally, hopelessly stalled you might look bad.

JK: It's possible, but not probably.

K: No, what you've said up to now will not make you look bad. I just can't judge the probable one way or the other.

JK: The area that I found a real give was in the area of the *future* and particularly in terms of timetables. Even F ______ who I regard as utterly dumb is hardline. He said to me when I asked him how long do you think it'll take said years. That was one . . . . . . They didn't want to have a bloodbath. They understood the people in the south were committed.

K: Right.

Re: [Subject to change]
the South Atlantic
Militarist

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: K.M. V NASA Date: 5/12/04

JK: But I had the impression they still had some stockpiles locked in militarily.

K: That wouldn't surprise me. That I think is probably right. That is my expectation too. But they are in the position now where if they don't succeed totally - it's a little bit like the Germans at the bulge - I expect them to attack in Military Region I next month. Now if they take Hue everything will be worth it. If they don't take Hue then they need two or three more divisions. You know, they are hurting a long term prospect.

JK: My guess would have been that the attack would come in the Delta but in any event. . .

K: There will also be an attack in the Delta but that is not going to be decisive.

JK: I think that you would have been interested in some of the things they kept telling me about - when I talked to them about uprisings they said when the uprisings of Peterloo are for the 19th century that's not the kind we're talking about.

K: What was Peterloo?

JK: Peterloo was an event I think in 1819 in Britain.

K: Oh yes, of course I know.

JK: Peterloo was the event. . .

K: The President just called me - hold on.

JK: Why, don't you call back at your convenience or when I come down I'll see you.

K: Well, I must see you when you come down. So in sum I would say - I would not go more than possible but not probable and on the hardline that is not so fully self-evident to me.

Re: please don't call the open line so
that's not as formal
Please call that

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.6

By: KHLV NASA Date: 5/12/72

TELCORN

Secretary Shultz/Mr. Kissinger

4:47 p.m., July 20, 1972

K: Mr. Secretary.

S: Hello, Henry.

K: How are you?

S: All right.

K: At least you should call me Mr. Assistant or something.

S: I expect to hear from you an announcement. I'm with your Mr. Smith
right now.

K: I know. And I just wanted you to know -- it might be of some
significance to you -- I've known him for a long time and he is a very,
very good friend of the United States and in a Cabinet peopled by
softheads and Doves, he's really been an absolute stalwart. That
doesn't mean that I would necessarily agree with every point of view
he's got but if he says something, it is not to score cheap points.

S: Okay. Very good; I like him. I'm enjoying the discussion. I'll
tell him that you say he's fine.

K: Well, he is outstanding and I think it just helps you assess what he's
saying.

S: Um-humm. Okay. Very good.

K: I thought it might be of some significance.

S: Excellent. Did you make any progress in Paris?

K: We are in a position -- they put themselves into a position to make
progress and now whether that means they're going to wait for a bit
to see how our election goes. I mean, everything they did is consistent
with their making major progress. Everything they did is also
consistent with their wasting time without riling us up too much but
even that helps us, public relations wise you see.

S: Okay. Very good, sir.

K: Good.

The President's Office in the Senate

The Senate, House, and Executive Offices

Public Records Branch

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sec. 3-1

By: K.M.V. NASA Dae: 5/12/04

TELCOM
Secretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger

7:29 p.m., July 20, 1972

L: Hi, Henry.

K: Mel, how are you?

L: Very good. Good to have you back again from one of your little trips.

K: Thank you. It means I'm going to keep a close watch on you now.

L: Oh, I know you would. You always do. Henry, on this breakfast tomorrow --

K: Yeah, we can't do it because you've got to go to the Cabinet Room.

L: But I do want to get together with you. What about Monday morning?

K: Good.

L: Let's try Monday morning for breakfast.

K: Excellent.

L: Because I do have some things --

K: No, I want to have breakfast with you.

L: You know, I've been holding up a few -- about three targets that I'd like to talk to you about. I've held them up because one of them that I've got recommendations on -- one's only about 900 ft. from the Chinese border and I don't think we should do anything on them.

K: No, absolutely not.

L: And so I haven't them over but I didn't want you to -- you know, I just feel it's better if I keep them on my desk.

K: Yeah, would you do that and we'll talk about it on Monday.

L: And I'd like to show those things to you and also like to show you some of the things we have done quietly as far as putting things in country.

K: Oh, terrific. Should I bring Haig along or do you want to do it alone?

L: I think it would be good. I always like to have Al there.

H. E. M. T. R. E. O. L. E. C. O.
S. O. S. E. O. F. C. O. M. E. O. L.
T. P. O. R. E. O. S. A. U. C. O. M. E. O. L.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.5

By: K.M.L. NASHA, Date: 5/12/84

TELCONE

Secretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger

7:29 p.m., July 20, 1972

K: Okay, I'll bring Haig.

L: And I think it would be good if Al would come.

K: Okay.

L: I'm planning on going out to Bohemian Grove.

K: No, I wish I could go but I can't.

L: You just can't get away.

K: I just can't get away.

L: Well, I'm going to take George Shultz and Cap Weinberger with me. And Dick Helms and I thought it might be nice if you went.

K: Well, I'd like to go and it would be a great demonstration of Administration unity.

L: Yeah.

K: (laughter) I can't do it.

L: Okay. Well, I understand.

K: You're sweet to offer it.

L: I know, I know. I talked to Dave this morning and he still wanted me to make sure that you couldn't come.

K: No, you're terrific but I don't think I'd better.

L: So, you know, Henry, we ought to think a little bit about -- and I haven't said this to anybody else but we'll talk about it Monday about getting Dave back to do the Mutual and Balance Force Reduction thing.

K: That's a damn good idea.

L: He'd do it.

K: Would he?

L: Yeah. And, you know, I haven't talked to --

Re: [insert telephone number]
to the Secretary of Defense
Re: [insert telephone number]

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.6

By: JMLW NARA, Date: 5/13/74

7:29 p.m., July 20, 1972

K: That's a really tremendous idea because Dave is a great soldier.

L: He's a great guy and he would be --

K: Terrific! And he would understand both the military side and he's a
humane guy.

L: So you ought to think just a little bit about that.

K: I'm very much for it!

L: But we'll talk about that Monday. I've really got some things we should
talk about though.

K: Well, let's say 8:00 because I've never make it at 7:45 a.m.

L: Okay, we'll say 8:00 on Monday.

K: Right.

L: Okay, fine, Henry.

K: Good.

L: Bye.

Re: what's up?

Re: what's going on?

Re: what's going to be done?

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

By: KHLW NASA Date: 5/13/64

TELCOM

Mrs. Stewart Alsop/Henry Kissinger

7/21/72 9:50 a.m.

MA: Good morning, Henry, how are you.

HAK: Fine. Will you tell your husband that I have been invited for many reasons but never to have others hear a girl call me stupid.

MA: What was that?

HAK: He sent me a note saying he usually enjoyed Nancy particularly when she cast reflections on my intelligence.

MA: Well, that's the worst thing I have ever heard. If I had known that I wouldn't have mailed the letter.

HAK: How is he?

MA: Well, he is all right. He has got to get back to that damn business again next week which is --

HAK: That hasn't improved a little?

MA: It did improve a little, then it kind of stopped improving, so they figured they'd better do it again. So he is sort of holding his own. It is the usual wretched uncertainty. That is what is really tough about this thing.

HAK: But I am getting slightly optimistic having held out so long.

MA: I know, you know it is actually a year today that he went into NIH--I can't believe it. When he went into NIH we figured that he if he would live three or four months, that'd be pretty good. So as you say, one has to keep his fingers crossed and hope. Listen, I hope you realize that I called Nancy to reinforce--in case Julie didn't get the message that we asked you for the weekend this time--

HAK: No, I know you did. We probably will go back at night. But we'll come down about what -- 4:30 ?

Rebuttal to Mr. Smith's talk on
the subject of Communism

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 1295B, Sept. 3.6

By: K.M.L. NARA No.: 5/12/04

Page 2

MA: Sure any time you can.

HAK: 4:30--5:00

MA: And we'll have dinner about 8:00-8:30. We'll probably eat outside --its cooler.

HAK: Right, we'll be relaxed about leaving--Joe wants us to take him.

MA: If you can.

HAK: Is Susan Mary coming?

MA: No, she is in Paris.

HAK: Well, then we can take him. I can't take two. Because of the Secret......

MA: If you could it would be wonderful, because Kay and Rollie Evans are coming down for dinner too, but they don't know what time they are leaving because they have ______ problems now.

HAK: No I would be delighted to take him.

MA: That's very kind of you, Henry.

HAK: He hasn't done anything outrageous for six weeks. He is one of my favorite people. I made the mistake the other day of hinting that Stu had a better sense of humor than he did--which offended him mortally.

MA: That was a dreadful thing to say.

HAK: Well, I didn't say it --he said it expecting me to contradict him.

MA: He was a little disappointed when you didn't.

HAK: And when I didn't, he very stiffly said I too try to make jokes.

MA: They are so funny. I am delighted that you are coming because we have got the third brother and I don't know whether you have ever met him, but as a group they are very funny together.

The President's Office in
the Senate of the Republic
Prairie State?

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: KMLW NASA Date: 5/13/04

Page 3

HAK: I heard the third brother when--at that birthday party for Joe?

MA: Of course you did.

HAK: No, I'm delighted.

MA: I thought we might have him--he might have that little grass root movement for Vice President.

HAK: Yeh, I think he should start it.

MA: It would give people something to talk about--and a little suspense for the convention.

HAK: After I didn't let Agnew go to the funeral of the patriarch in Istanbul, my relations with him already are not the best.

MA: Well, I can imagine you are a little low on that. Well we'll look for you around 4:30 or so. Good.

HAK: Terrific.

g.

went into
be figured
that'd be pretty good.
missed and hope.
try to reinstate--in
asked you for the weekend
I'll be back at night. But we'll

Re: [goddesses,] what are you doing?

Telecon
Jerry Schecter
Mr. Kissinger
7/21/72; 10:09 a.m.

By: KHC W
NASA Date: 5/12/72

S: (The first part is missing) ... Paris.

K: Oh, I had a wild time.

S: Pardon.

K: I had a wild time. You know Le Duc Tho is such a barrel of fun.

S: I'll bet (laughter)

K: What you called Haig about -- about my meeting with -- my call to Fisher.

S: Right.

K: I made only one call. I made it the day the parts for Iceland was in doubt and you know I did it as sort of being interested in chess.

S: I see. Do you play chess? I know you play world chess but . . .

K: No, I play mediocre chess. And I just called him up to say that I thought it would be a good idea for the country and that we hope we do well and you know it was really a personal call but . . .

S: I see. But you didn't say by mutual agreement neither side would reveal the substance of our conversation? Kissinger was not referring to his latest secret negotiations for peace in Vietnam, he was talking about peace in . . .

K: No, I told him that I needed a cover to meet Le Duc Tho in Reykjavik because I figured that was a very inconspicuous place to meet.

S: Yeah, yeah, I see. Okay. I am supposed to come and see you at noon today -- does that look good.

K: Oh, I didn't know you were. What is that fiction day -- book award?

S: Yeah, it's getting close to the deadline.

K: You are not on my goddamned program but let that not bother you.

S: Okay.

K: Campbell is charging in and says -- on what bloody schedule is it?

Re: [possible] title of the open letter
to the Secretary of State and the人民's
Ministerial
of Foreign Affairs?

TELCOM

Amb. Dobrynin/Kissinger

7/21/72 - 11:12 a.m.

D: Hello.

K: Anatol.

D: Hello, Henry, how are you?

K: OK.

D: Whom do you brief now?

K: Whom do I brief now?

D: Yeh.

K: A group of senators. They want to vote on the Mansfield amendment again.

D: Oh, I see. And you don't want to make a small gift to the Senator, the distinguished gentleman from Montana and the leader of the Senate?

K: Frankly Anatol, I don't know whether I want to win or lose the Mansfield Amendment. It makes no difference.

D: I understand but you don't want to please him at least? This is a matter of pleasing the gentleman.

K: Yeh, I like him.

D: I like him too, that's why I'm telling you.

K: I do please him. I have excellent relations with him.

D: But I mean about his amendment.

K: Well, basically Anatol the only man in town who has better relations with Mansfield and Fulbright than I is you.

D: (Laughter) Well Henry, I have two things to talk to you about. One, about your trip to Moscow. Secondly, yesterday I received a telegram I would like to discuss with you. And I received a draft . . . which takes into consideration your draft which was given in Moscow. So I would like to give it to you.

H. P. I. T. R. of L. C. 1
S. I. N. or I. C. 1
P. O. Box 148?

TELCOM

Marvin Kalb/Kissinger

7/21/72 - 11:19 a.m.

NASA Data 5/12/04

K: Hello.

MK: Good morning.

K: Marvin, how are you?

MK: Yes sir, how are you?

K: You called me earlier this week.

MK: That's right. I was checking with you on - at that moment - on an
immediate story that related to the Egyptians. And I was wondering
at that time that I would have loved to get your views on it.

K: I don't want to comment on that.

MK: Not at all?

K: NO.

MK: I was wondering whether we had any sense of whether it's limited
to that immediate group of advisors?

K: I think so. May I say one other thing to you as a friend, Marvin?

MK: Please.

K: You've been putting out a lot of stuff about the talks, they're deadlocked
and so forth, no progress and so forth. I don't want to comment on it,
but let me tell you that no one you can be talking to could possibly know
one way or the other.

MK: Well, they are.

K: I don't give a damn who they are.

MK: No, I can appreciate that and I certainly wouldn't mean to contradict
anything. The hint I had was going with people I thought reasonably
good.

K: Marvin, you're a pro and I'm saying it to you not to say that you were
unfair or that you didn't have good reason to say this. I'm telling
you this as a friend. Nor am I saying there is progress. I'm saying
that your sources can not know and that therefore the thing to do is
for everyone to shut up now for a while while we get this sorted out.

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.6

Re: please don't call me again
But, you are an excellent
Representative of the
U.S. Government.

By: JMLW
NASHA Data: 5/13/04

MK: Are you going back soon?

K: This is strictly off-the-record. I mean don't say any high Administration source said "shut-up"

MK: I won't say that. I'll say a friend. No, I appreciate that.

K: No, I'm not asking you to shut up. If you want to say there's a deadlock, say that. Nor am I saying there's not a deadlock, I'm just saying as a factual matter I don't know whether there's a deadlock or not. And believe me no one else knows.

MK: Is there some fluidity at the moment?

K: I cannot yet tell.

MK: Right. You going back soon?

K: Well, further meetings will be announced as they are held.

MK: OK. I take your word for that, sir, and I thank you.

K: Good.

MK: OK. Bye.

M
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h
a
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y
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o
n
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e

H. J. S. Hurok, D. W. H. Kissinger
U.S. Department of Defense
Nuclear Nonstrategic Use

By: K.M.V. NASA Date: 5/12/04

TELCOM

Sol Hurok/Kissinger

7/21/72 - 11:25 a.m.

K: Hello.

H: Hello, how are you?

K: Fine, I was sorry - I left the hotel that evening and I never did see you.

H: Yes, I know that. Henry, can I come for 10 minutes to Washington to see you or can you come here for the opening of the Ukrainian Russian Dancers Tuesday night?

K: I don't think I can be there but I might be in New York on Wednesday so that we could meet there for 10 minutes.

H: It would be my pleasure.

K: So let me see whether I have 10 minutes on Wednesday; otherwise come to Washington. I want to see you.

H: Yes, I want to see you badly.

K: Good. I'm sorry we've had so much trouble connecting. But I've got a hectic life.

H: I know but once in a while you have to get out of that for a half an hour.

K: Good, I'm eager to see you.

H: So your secretary will call me on Tuesday.

K: Right. Bye.