DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By NARA, Dato 5/26

Telecon
Secretary Volpe
12/10/70 9:00 a.m.

K: We have got to have a disposition of these Coast Guard people by noon so the President can give an answer to the press conference.

V: What kind of answer would you like?

K: If you are not going to court martial them, are you going to take administrative action?

V: They resumed the hearings Monday noon to question a few additional witnesses about some points which arose when the transcripts were being reviewed over the weekend. The full hearing was concluded the night before last. They have been reviewing it yesterday and this morning. The Assistant Commandant has got to have at least 48 hours to review it himself.

K: Will you give us an answer the President can give tonight. We are determined that this is not going to be waffled.

V: We are not going to waffle it! But we've got to take some care in going over this.

K: But his problem is he's going to be on nationwide television at 7:00 tonight and he's got to have a precise answer.

V: What we will do is to phrase it in a way that says something positive, but the press has already placed the blame. The Calley trial has been going on for a year and a half now but the press has already determined who was wrong. Under the Military Code of Ethics . . . these guys have already been hurt pretty badly. There's one Admiral who's already been killed by this . . . he was about to retire in six months. He's got to be given a fair hearing.

K: Can you give me a question and answer which is as forthcoming as possible and will satisfy the people that the President is on top of it? I was under the impression that the decision had been made already not to court martial them.

V: No, that's not so. I'll get you the type of question the press is likely to ask and my recommendation for an answer by noon.

K: That will be fine.

By

NARA, Date 5/26

Telecon
Dean Dunlop
(Dean of Faculty, Harvard)
12/10/70 10:10 a.m.

K: Two things. One, I sent you a letter about four weeks ago . . .

D: I know. I have it and was going to be in touch with you. I have a
good idea what the answer is going to be, but I can't do anything formal here.
I am going to be in Washington tomorrow; I can bring you the answer.

K: I assume the answer is going to be no.

D: I talked with Nate. He does not wish to make an exception, but
in view of your eminence and distinction he thought that up to some period,
such as the elections of '72 the people involved would be glad to have you
back. I took it to Sam and he talked to 10 tenured members of the depart-
ment and they were all perfectly enthusiastic and willing to do that. The
question I am not clear about is whether to have the department vote it. I
talked to your old friend at the Center and he is not that enthusiastic about
it. Not that he doesn't want you back, but he wouldn't want any discrimin-
atory treatment given to you when it wasn't given to him.

K: I don't think he carries that much weight, does he?

D: No, not in the department, but in the Center.

K: I don't care that much about the Center.

D: I think the department is the key thing and I will let you know by
note tomorrow what they've done. I think for some period -- not for eternity.

K: No, I wouldn't want it that way.

D: What I envisage is that your resignation would be effective the second
term, and I wouldn't want this note known about publicly. I can put in your
file that the department of government has indicated that up to the Fall of
1972, if you wanted to return they would be only too delighted to have you back.

K: That is a very generous way of dealing with it and more than I thought
possible.

D: Nate encouraged that.

K: I will write you a formal letter I suppose, but can that wait until
early January?

D: Yes.

Telecon
Dean Dunlop

12/10/70 10:10 a.m. page 2

By NAHA, Date 5/26

K: Because now I know what to talk about here.

D: I'll let you have the formal position tomorrow.

K: Good. Second, I talked to the Vice President about your proposal. He would be happy to talk to you and anyone you wanted along about the idea. He certainly didn't object to it. He promised me yesterday his office would get in touch with you. But if they don't within the next couple of days, why don't you call them. As a joke he said, "I hope they are not going to suggest Papandreou as the head . . ."

D: Oh no!

K: It was just a joke.

D: I understand. This is more on the history and literature side.

K: He realizes that.

D: So Paul Buck and I should go down and see him directly?

K: I think that's the best way to do it.

D: Will you be in Washington tomorrow?

K: Yes.

D: If I get this letter tomorrow I will bring it to you. I have an 8:30 appointment with George Shultz tomorrow.

K: Why don't you stop by?

D: Okay.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCONE

Secy. Packard/Kissinger

10:45 am

12/10/70

K: The reason I am so late getting to you, I pushed every light button -- it shows you how intelligent and efficient my office staff is. Where do we stand with Jordan?

P: That worked out all right. I have a package put together where we can supply M-61 tanks which they can have in 30-60 days. That's not what they need but they are modern tanks and we can get them there quickly. We have ______ M-16 rifles we can supply in 60 days. And the possibility of radar. About 26 million all together to be shipped in 30-60 days. This is going to take the authority of the President which says we deliver the equipment and get repaid later.

K: We will do that.

P: I talked to Sisco and told him what we have.

K: You will tell the Jordanians that?

P: We will get them over today and ______ it up.

K: You always come through. Second, I have had an irate call from the Atty. Gen. About what he claims is a Pentagon leak of Verification Panel discussions. The President is apt to do something dramatic to someone soon on these.

P: About the DC --. I don't know where they came from.

K: If we could tighten up procedures in all departments.

P: We will. There are so many people around here. I have a memo with one of my boys on a finance matter that got a full column in Jack Anderson.

K: The President doesn't know about this yet and it may not get to him. I certainly won't tell him.

P: We will have to ride with them. We are just as concerned.

By ____ D. NAHA, Date 5/26

TELCONE
Amb. Pauls/Kissinger

10:50 am

12/10/70

P: I haven't seen you in so long a time and I would like to see you as soon as possible.

K: What have you heard about me?

P: Many things. Mostly good.

K: Anything relevant to the Federal Republic?

P: Maybe we can talk about it. I had asked for an appointment. Your office just called to say Thurs., the 17th.

K: Is that all right?

P: It's all right if you cannot make it earlier. If you cannot, let's make it the 17th.

K: I don't have my calendar.

P: Your time is so occupied so I don't want to bother you. I want to talk to you

K: Have some of your politicians been screaming again?

P: There are a number of points of common interest and I would like to see you alone.

K: Certainly.

P: If you cannot make it earlier we will make it the 17th.

K: We will make it earlier.

P: On the 15th I am in Newpert. But I am here Mon. or Wed. I just wanted to let you know we will do it as soon as possible.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCON
Said Rifai/Kissinger
11:00 am 12/10/70

K: I enjoyed sitting next to you the other day. I talked to our people. I have reason to believe that they will make a proposition to you today. Will not meet all your immediate requirements but will go far to be helpful. I repeated your point about the radar situation. I think we will do that. We can give you an initial quantity of tanks that will fill out your order. I think you should know the WH took an interest in this and I would appreciate your letting His Majesty know that the President took an interest in this matter.

R: I will pass that along to His Majesty as soon as possible.

K: We think you will find your visit useful.

R: Thank you very much.

TELCON
Dobrynin/Kissinger

12:45 pm

12/10/70

K: About that conversation with respect to this man. I wanted you to know
those papers have moved from Justice to State and and if you haven't heard
from them next week, there's some bureaucratic snarl and you should call me.
Only technical problems left.

D: What's your recommendation?

K: They will call Wed. at the latest.

D: When will you have time next week for lunch?

K: You want to have lunch next week? Okay.

D: Except Tues and Wed. because I will be in NY. Any other time it's all right.

K: I cannot do it this minute. I will call you this afternoon.

D: That'll be fine. Except Tues. or Wed. Otherwise all right.

K: Mon., Thurs., or Friday.

D: Thurs. or Friday is better.

K: That's better for me. I have to look at the calendar. What I can shift and
if I am free. We have the British Prime Minister here.

D: Whatever is suitable for you.

K: We will do it Thurs. or Friday.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority

~~F-1236~~
By CHARA Date 01/10/70

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCONE
Dobrynin/Kissinger
12:45 pm 12/10/70

D: When will you have time next week for lunch?"

D: That will be fine. Except Tues. or Wed. Otherwise all right.

K: Mon., Thurs., or Friday.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCORN
Secy. Irwin/Kissinger
3:40 pm 12/10/70

I: I am calling about a successful conclusion on the negotiation on a fisheries agreement that started 10 days ago.

K: Don't tell me it's a flounder agreement.

I: It deals with that but not what they were talking about in Boston. There was a news release put out last Monday and Johnson spoke to Haig about that. Amb. McClarendon finished this today and because it has been drawn to Haig's attention we wanted you to know there will be an agreement. They will be a news release tomorrow but there may be leaks.

K: Should the President mention it this evening.

I: Not necessarily. So far the newspapers have not connected it but it's possible that now that it's successful they might. We wanted you to know.

K: I will warn the President about it. What's the subject of the fisheries agreement?

I: It's a renewal and extension of an earlier agreement that handled conservation initially but this time not only that but economic take and extension of area that was covered on conservation field off Cape Ferris in North Carolina. Goes out 100 miles and regulates conservation and economic aspects. Some will be less happy then others but he feels the applause will be greater than the criticism. It will be signed today. We will get a memo to you today.

K: If you were Mel Laird I would have assumed that you just leaked it to the press yourself. Now you must say Defense has leaked it.

I: They were involved.

K: I am just joking.

I: He just told me his negotiation with Defense was as hard as with the Soviets.

K: You are very courteous.

By NARA, Date 5/26

Telecon
Secretary Laird

12/10/70 4x25xk 4:26 p.m.

L: Henry, someone should brief Finch on the Vietnamization program.

K: Jesus Christ. Don't tell me a word about it. It's an outrage.

L: He says I could do it in 12 to 14 months. I can't do that. This is going to be thrown up to me from now on. I'll be accused of dragging my feet.

K: It's disastrous.

L: I love Bob, but I think he ought to talk to me. Like the Nuremburg trail thing he came out with on POWs.

K: What was that?

L: He said this was an option we could follow. They've been calling our people war criminals and we've rejected that. I think it's a mistake to get into that. I will brief him, or you.

K: I don't want you to do that. The less he knows the better off we are.

L: But you know, he speaks for the President. I was concerned with everything being out by 1972, but now he's down to 12 - 14 months.

K: There's no excuse for it. He wasn't put up to it.

L: That wasn't what I called about. What I wanted was . . . Stennis and the Senate conferees are holding firm on the language against using money that goes to Vietnam for operations in Cambodia and Laos. (L read from page 45 of the bill.)

K: That's impossible.

L: I know it is, but they have got this language. Our Senate friends feel that I am the only one who objects to this.

K: I called Stennis and he told me he would take what I said to him very seriously and come over for a briefing on this.

L: They're having a conference Saturday morning.

K: I will call him first thing in the morning.

L: He says the language about using American military forces in Cambodia is tough. But this is much tougher. This precludes support in Vietnam from operating in Cambodia and stops any operation in Laos. I have gone to everybody on this I know. They all have the idea this is something I am concerned about, but I've got to get through on this.

["DECLASSIFIED\nE.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6", "Telecon\nSecretary Laird", "12/10/70 4:26 p.m. page 2", "By NARA, Date 5/26", "K: I will call Stennis this afternoon.", "L: You understand why I am concerned.", "K: Of course, and I am concerned also.", "L: Okay.", "K: Something else. On that operation we discussed yesterday, the President's view if ______ of troops get lifted in . . . . . he doesn't mind . . . . .", "L: Yes. We'll try to fuzz that up. Tomorrow there will probably be a lot of questions about this.", "K: One other thing. The hearings on Monday about the intelligence basis for this operation. I understand Manner is testifying.", "L: No, I'm not going to let him testify before the Fulbright Committee.", "K: Good. We're behind you. Hetsaxoxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxax

By NARA, Date 5/26

Telecon
Secretary Laird

12/10/70 4:26 p. m. page 3

L: They also say they were picked up in Cambodia.

K: That's can't be.

L: It's part of their trip report. They could have picked it up perhaps in South Vietnam, but I can't believe it. I'm denying it.

K: Absolutely. Good luck tomorrow.

L: Bill was up there for four hours today. I haven't read the testimony yet.

K: I haven't either.

L: But I hear they gave him quite a workout.

K: It's good experience for him.

L: It's good for all of us.

By NARA, Date 5/26

Telecon
Crocker Snow
12/10 70 5:35 p. m.

K: This thing is getting to be such a bureaucratic exercise. A
double of things: A, I am embarrassed that is has assumed these propor-
tions. B, I thought I had better talk with you myself so we know what we
are talking about. I am delighted to meet with your editors and people
I might not know on my own. But I think it's needlessly insulting to
 invite members of the Cambridge community to meet with me at something
set up by a newspaper. I have no interest in having a debate with Chomsky
before 30 people you have invited there.

S: I got that message. I haven't invited anybody yet.

K: Isn't it pretty late. Maybe we should drop the whole thing.

S: Our staff is all alerted and in terms of the academics I don't
anticipate any problems.

K: But I want to know how we are to be informed.

S: I was thinking of Reischauer, perhaps Jim Thompson, Adam Yar-
molinsky, either Fisher or Schelling.

K: I don't want to meet with Schelling and I know Fisher's views.
How about Huntington?

S: Or Bill Bundy or Ed Gullion.

K: Bundy would be fine.

S: How about Gullion?

K: I have no objections. I don't think he'd be as interesting.

S: Okay, let's make it Reischauer, Thompson, Bundy and Yarmolinsky.
I don't anticipate any difficulties or a great debate.

K: Lindsey is a friend and I'm delighted.

S: And the others are pretty straight.

K: You know that I am trying to avoid a circus.

S: So are we. When we invite people we don't bill it as a confrontation
or debate at all.

By NARA, Date 5/26

Telecon
Crocker Snow

12/10/70 5:35 p. m. page 2

K: And as far as the students go, I am seeing a group here tomorrow from Harvard so I don't see any need.

S: I think that's a dead issue and I couldn't swear to their abiding by the ground rules. It seemed to me more trouble than it was worth. And I wasn't planning to invite anybody in the miscellaneous category. Under these circumstances, 2:00 pm the 16th is fine.

K: You understand I am subject to unexpected events.

S: Of course, Eliot Richardson came today -- had lunch with 20 of the Globe people. It was very useful.

K: I have no trouble with the Globe people. I know I can rely on them to abide by the basic agreement made ahead of time. But the academic community knows no such inhibitions.

S: Tom Winship has the same reservations as you. I'll go over the list with him.

K: Okay. This was your idea, not mine. Second, if I'm useful, I am trying to explain our thinking, not to change anybody's mind. But I don't want to turn it into an evangelical exercise.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCOM

Mr. Kissinger
Mr. Edward Molina (Ford Motor Co.)
5:40 p.m., 12-10-70

M: This is Ed Molina. I am a Vice President of the Ford Motor Company. Mr. Ford tried to reach you to pose a problem. Our dealer body suggested that Ford go to Santiago in the early days of January and meet with Allende. The Chairman was reluctant to do so. But these men urged him to make the trip saying it would do some good because Allende would receive this as a sign that the Western World was not turning on him and Mr. Ford thought if that was so he would do it but if it was contrary to what the Government feels he should do, he would not do it.

K: That is extremely courteous of him. What was he supposed to say to Allende?

M: We have a plant there and the company will submit bid along with others and some will be in and some will be out. The thought was that Mr. Ford would come down and express the fact that Ford has been in Chile for some years, that we would like like to stay friends and Allende would use this as propaganda with the press.

K: When must you have an answer?

M: Well, we are going in to see Charlie Meyers on the 21st or 22d of December. If we could get an answer any time prior to that.

K: I will let you know what the President thinks on that. I will make sure to call Mr. Ford personally.

M: Well, he is off to Europe.

K: Well, do you want me to call you?

M: Yes, please. My number is 313/322-3290.

K: I will call you before the 20th. Is Mr. Ford coming back for that?

M: No. Mr. Ford will be back January 2d.

K: I will be in touch with you well before the date.

mlh

By NARA, Date 5/26

Telecon
Secretary Laird
12/10/70 ca. 6:00 p. m.

L: I just talked with Dan and he told me . . . [the President's line rang; K said he would call back].

K: I was told that was what you wanted.

L: Yes, but don't put it in writing. We should never get the President involved. All hell is going to break loose on this 17,000

K: My bureaucracy told me you wanted it in writing.

L: No, and I don't want you to project it four months in advance. We want to give the impressing that we are trying to work toward zero draft calls.

K: I signed it because it was put before me and I thought that's what you wanted. I'll call it back.

L: Okay, do that. And get it back from Selective Service.

K: Your staff asked for it.

L: They never did.

K: That's what Haig tells me. Murphy asked for it.

L: He never did. The President never announced draft calls in history of Selective Service. He's never put numbers on the draft calls. One month is all right, but don't give me four.

K: You are right. I will call it back. One thing, are we training any Cambodians?

L: Yes.

K: Oh really? How many?

L: We are training as far as helicopters now and the South Vietnamese advisors are training Cambodians in South Vietnam.

K: But about how many?

L: I would say right off hand, about 60 in helicopter training and several hundred advisors.

Telecon
Secretary Laird

12/10/70 ca. 6:00 p. m. page 2

By NARA, Date 5/26

K: But these are trained by the South Vietnamese?

L: Right. But we aren't training these in Cambodia; we are training them in South Vietnam.

K: Okay, I'll tell the President. Finally, Bob Haldeman thinks you should call Finch and raise hell with him.

L: I don't raise hell with anybody in the White House but you.

K: I am turning you loose on Finch.

L: If you want me to do it I will.

K: Well, let's not worry about that now.

By C) NARA, Date 5/20

TELCOM

Mr. Kissinger/Tricia Nixon/The President

7:45 p.m., December 18, 1970

TN: Hi Mr. Kissinger, this is Tricia Nixon. What did you think, that's why we are calling.

K: I thought your father was spectacular. This was by far the best press conference he has ever held.

TN: Why the best?

K: First of all, all this talk about extensive campaigns and so forth. Anyone who listened to him tonight would know that he is concerned for the country and is willing to make the hard decisions. The press has been spooking him on the November 3 foreign policy but he was conciliatory and extremely tough.

TN: Daddy wants to hear from you too.

P: Henry.

K: Mr. President, I think it was spectacular, the best that I have ever heard. Really playing it with superlative, from every aspect outstanding.

P: I really stuck it into Hanoi.

K: Really masterful and you really stuck it to Hanoi. Nothing but the national interest. The bombing issue, that must have rattled their teeth.

P: The New York Times will have a horrible editorial tomorrow. Why we didn't tell the Senate, but I thought there were intelligence reasons not to handle it that way.

K: Very flip answers, "No, I do not". From a foreign policy point, this was ideal. If I had staffed it, it wouldn't have been as good.

P: Didn't get the Middle East in there. The State Department wanted me to kick the Soviets on that.

K: When you spoke of the balances of power....

P: And the Cambodia thing -- the best investment we have ever made.

K: Given the limitations of time and so forth.

By NARA, Date 5/26
Page 2

TELCORN

Mr. Kissinger/The President
7:45 p.m., December 10, 1970

P: I was awful tough with these guys. Handled well was their crap about press conferences sort of language.

K: You altered between being firmly in charge and being easy. Since November 3, they have been trying to spook you. Anyone seeing you tonight would know you are patriotic and warm towards people. The 20 million or so or however many were watching.

P: The Angela Davis thing, I never should have said that. Well, I made a mistake.

K: I was concerned with all the things that have been building up.

P: The railroad strikes -- nobody asked about the railroad strikes. Thought that would be covered -- they have been sending me stuff all day on that.

K: Thought the answers were superb.

P: Left it wide open -- wasn't it good the fact that with regard to the Soviets, Mr. Gromyko and I had some other things we talked about -- of course, the President discussed other things.

K: You gave a message to the Russians.

P: What was the message?

K: We want to talk seriously with the Russians. You talked just enough about the Chinese.

P: Wide open on the bombing. If there is anything to hit tomorrow, hit it.

K: You haven't been ______ on reconnaissance.

P: On reconnaissance and infiltrations. On infiltrations, we will bomb anything that moves.

K: Ideal from a foreign policy point. I am no expert on public opinion but a lot of this talk we have been hearing since November 3.....

P: November 5th.

K: That's what I meant

P: Oh, well.

By [signature] NARA, Date 5/26

TELCOM

K: In any case I believe 95% of the liberal press are trying to spook you.

P: The Franko article on 40 questions they ought to ask. ???

K: You dominated this. Not a certain amount of ingratiating ....

P: (turned away from phone) You think so Tricia -- never ingratiating -- he liked that.

K: You have never had a poor press conference but this one was absolutely outstanding.

P: Will have a few more and not worry about how they are. Here at the White House, they expect every one to be a winner.

K: You had one today in foreign policy and domestic, the whole demeanor.

P: Tricia says this is out of the park.

K: That's what I think.

P: Will you call Rogers and see what he thought?

K: Right, Mr. President.

By C NARA, Date 5/26

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Secretary Laird
12/10/70; 7:50 p.m.

K: The President wanted me to check with you and see what you thought.

L: I thought it went along very well. I don't think there is any problem as far as the understanding.

K: I guess there is no difficulty any more what the understanding is.

L: I don't have any problem on that. This is what I have been trying to say all along. I think it went along well.

K: I just sent you a letter. I just wanted to clear the record so I sent you a letter saying we accept the recommendation for January.

L: I have some problems with the other parts of the press conference.

K: With what?

L: I like Rummy but Rummy is not the kind of guy that is going to help as far as party problems in the Congress and up on the Hill. But it's thinks you aren't involved in.

K: But I am learning politics from two real pros.

L: We have to bring a few of the people along like Les Arends, Bob Dole who were kicking them all the time. I will talk to you about that -- but you aren't involved . . .

K: I can sometimes talk to them.

feg

By NARA, Date 5/20

TELCORN

Mr. Kissinger/Rose Mary Woods

7:55 p.m., December 10, 1970

W: I have a message that they are eating and to get any messages and he will pick up the messages later.

K: That's okay, if he is going to take that attitude.

W: Are you going to be there?

K: For another 10 minutes. Rogers is out of town and giving a talk. Laird liked it very much -- bitching about Rumsfeld whom he doesn't like but he thought the President was outstanding. I talked to Stennis, he didn't see it because he was off doing something while the press conference was on but he talked to his wife afterwards and his wife was raving about it -- she said that they asked some nasty questions. Don't you think it was outstanding?

W: They were sort of loaded for bear.

K: Didn't ingratiate himself. Sharp and to the point, he was the President. In my area if I could have drafted every question ahead of time, I couldn't have done it as good. I wouldn't say this to anyone else but I thought this afternoon his nerves were so tight and then he got up there and did it like a master. He put a stop to this talk about dividing the country.

W: Another thing, something was missing -- these fellows were screaming for a press conference and the biggest thing of the day -- the railroad strikes, they didn't even ask about.

K: I will be here another 10 minutes, then I am going out to dinner.

W: You will leave word where you are?

K: Yes and ....

Operator: Miss Woods, may I cut in please?

8:15 Conversation Continued --

W: Hi Henry, that was the house just the house telling me that they are going to eat. When he calls, I will give him the message.

K: I am going to dinner with Gwen Dobson.

W: Oh, my.

By

NARA, Date

5/26

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Senator Stennis
12/10/70; 8:00 p.m.

K: I am calling you about that appropriations bill. There is a provision which says that no part of this money can be used to support South Vietnamese forces anywhere. Now we really feel strong -- as the President said today we are not going to put ground forces there -- but we feel it essential that we keep the South Vietnamese free to move in and there if necessary. We think if we can keep them from re-establishing their sanctuaries in '71 we can complete a good part of this program, no matter what else happens. I will be delighted to arrange a briefing for you. It is one thing the President and I have felt so strongly about. I was wondering if you would look at your position again.

S: Let's be certain we are talking about the same bill.

K: The one that is going to Conference on Saturday -- what is it, Section 45 or something like that. Mel Laird I read it to me today.

S: Is that what we call the Cooper-Church Amendment. I was not for it. I did not make a fight on it. I am going -- this is strictly in confidence now -- I am going to talk to Mahon about it. I feel sheepish about it. It was handled by Allen(?) -- Senator Russell ordinarily handles it.

K: If you could keep that in mind.

S: I will -- but that is confidential.

K: I will tell it only to the President. I will not mention it even to Mel Laird.

S: We are talking about the same bill?

K: It's the Cooper/Church

S: I imagine Mr. Mahon and his group will be opposed to it. KWKHXXKHKXUPXAXMHKXHKTQHNQ.

K: I will give his group a call on it tomorrow.

S: I will be glad to help but I can't say anything much publicly.

By NARA, Date 5/26

Telecon

Mr. Kissinger/Sen. Stennis
12/10/70; 8:00 p.m.

- 2 -

K: How did you feel about the President's press conference?

S: I missed it. (There was some talk here about a bill being passed but I was detracted and did not get it) Mrs. Stennis thought he was splendid. She said they goaded him but he handled it. Give the President my regards and tell him what Mrs. Stennis said.

K: I will call him now.

S: I don't mean making a special call. I certainly will be with you on this.

feg

By NARA, Dato

5/26

TELCOM

Mr. Kissinger/Ron Ziegler

8:05 p.m., December 10, 1970

Z: I think we have an understanding.

K: He was outstanding.

Z: I think we have established an understanding. When he calls, one thing would be good for you to pass on to him. TASS correspondent was there and said let me recap what he said there.

K: What did he say?

Z: Reviewing briefly what the President had said.

K: What did the press say? Really think that in my area, if I could have written it, it wouldn't have been as good.

Z: What did you think about Rogers -- the Cambodian thing?

K: I would have done it a little different, but it went very well.

Z: And the Hoover question.

K: That was good too.

Z: A housing thing, housing thing bother you any?

K: Don't know if that well but it didn't bother me. I am in favor of segregation and said so to Hedley Donovan out at lunch the other day.

Z: Yeah.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCORN
John Scali/Kissinger
afternoon/ 12/10/70

S: I have a couple of questions I am still curious about. On the intelligence problem on Son Tay, any new procedures put into effect?

K: It's easy to blame intelligence. It's an area I would have to explain too much about to explain the basic intelligence and would be dangerous. There was no procedural problem. I have had an analysis made of the procedures to be sure. You can always streamline things but that's not a problem.

S: (something to the effect that the operation was so close hold that pressure wasn't necessarily brought to bear to be sure that all intelligence input had been cleared through.)

K: I read those stories. The CIA was involved in every detail on which the intelligence was based. They made the model of the prison camp you have seen in the newspapers.

S: Do they know whether it was true or not or would they just expect to accept what they were told?

K: I am satisfied they had an opportunity for analytical input. I am not assuming that the director of the CIA has to be asked every day if he has something to say. When he knows that significant segments of his organization are working on a project, he will give them what he has.

S: Then they had analytical ______? My impression was that they had nothing to do with it.

K: They had a lot to do on it which it was based but this intelligence is of the highest sensitivity and I cannot go into it.

S: I heard Rogers before the Senate Foreign Relations today and he talked about political imperatives which made it impossible to send troops into Cambodia. No support of American people or the Congress. Is this the widely held view of the inner circle?

K: You have to assume that the Secy. of State --

S: I do but I am checking to see if it's his own special view.

K: Wouldn't it be great to say he is speaking for himself and I will move my troops when I want to? That would be a great story.

S: Remember yesterday I expressed concern about the President talking to these 9 columnists and I said maybe Hanoi would sit back and wait

By

NARA, Date

5/26

John Scali/Kissinger
afternoon 12/10/70

-2-

S: (Cont) for '72? I intend to ask it as a question this evening and I wonder if you have given thought to it.

K: Let me just say one thing -- if you are not called on this evening, it doesn't mean I told him.

S: God love you and keep (?) you.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCOM

Amb. Mosbacher/Kissinger

early morning

12/11/70

K: On the Un, ~~as~~ you can gather, you moved suddenly yesterday. I knew what they were considering. They were wavering but they have gone back to you.

M: Jordan, you mean. I have called Nelson to talk with him. I will try to talk with him today. He's in Albany. The only problem in my mind is if it is worth the effort. I will see you Sunday night and we can talk on the plane coming down.

K: You are pretty presumptuous.

M: You invited me. You should be careful what you say. If you are going to be up there will you be free Sat. night? (chatter) ---------- You feel we should consider this pretty seriously and not just a side wise move. It's a lot of effort to learn a new job.

K: It could collapse and not work but it's also a crucial area now and might work.

M: Let's think about that. The other thought is whether anything can be done with this job. It has never been done but whether it can be useful in a substantive way. I will talk with Nelson and if you could --

K: I will call him during the day.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TECCON
Sisco/Kissinger

12:35 pm

12/11/70

S: You are in a hurry.

K: No, you are.

S: I am told you running off.

K: That's right.

S: In conversation this morning with Dayan I wish to report that the Secy. said when Dayan said we are concerned because there's no decision on consistency of deliveries and this is the last in Dec. and thing will stop, the Secy. said we can take care of that while you are here. That's what the President's letter said. Pilot can be continued. He has taken the view of giving them something on short range so no break in deliveries. This is what you and I have been pleading for a month.

K: Where does that leave us?

S: As soon as he said this I thought I should get this to you. I told the Secy. Dayan is about to see Mel Laird, so he better talk to Laird to be sure they are talking with the same voice. I didn't object because you and I think this is good. The purpose of this call is to inform you and let it ride and if it works out with the Secy. and Laird I will do a memo to you right away.

K: Let's keep it going.

S: That's what I thought you would say. What kind of man have we got in NY? Good on the M.E.?

K: Much better. Much more responsive to me. You and I will work out his orders. You tell me what you want and I will tell him. That's the understanding

S: That's great.

K: No memos undercutting you. He has political ambitions.

S: Why don't we change is residency right away and suggest he become a resident of NYC?

K: I know him well. I don't know his views on the M.E. but he will be susceptible to suggestions.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCONE

Max Ascoli/Kissinger

12:41 pm

12/11/70

K: How are you?

A: Fine.

K: Have you to go to a meeting. I will be in NY Sunday and I thought I could save you a trip on Monday. If you are free for dinner Sunday night.

A: In that case -- you couldn't come for ______?

K: I doubt it.

A: I will arrange everything. Tell me the hour.

K: 7:30.

A: You can stay for dinner.

K: Could I bring Nancy?

A: If you leave right after dinner, I will kill you.

K: My plane will leave at 10:30.

A: OK. I will come to Washington at another time. Come to 23 Gramercy.

K: May I bring Nancy?

A: By all means. I was going to suggest that. We will have an hour by ourselves after an hour with two charming ladies of very different ages?

K: Certainly.

By NARA, Dato 5/26

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Robert Evans

1:05 p.m., December 11, 1970

K: It doesn't look now as if I will be able to make it -- maybe afterwards. Something has been arranged at the Boston Globe which I have to do in the afternoon. The obstacle is the retirement party for somebody I don't even particularly like.

E: Why don't you get out of it?

K: They asked me so many weeks ago, and I think they set it in part on that date because I said I was going to be there. If they read in the papers that I went to a premiere instead... But I would love to come.

E: It will have a tremendous crowd and a wonderful bunch of people. I think it is also important that you see it for your own purposes. It is the kind of picture that will bring motion pictures back to America. It is clean, beautiful, and a lovely love story.

K: I have no trouble in wanting to see it -- I need no convincing. It's how to get out of this other. There's no way I can go without appearing in the newspapers.

E: You could sneak in 5 minutes after it starts. I could have two seats for you. It starts at 8:30 and you could come at 8:45; but if you can't, I understand. Do you think you could come down for the party?

K: That's more possible. Where is it?

E: The Hippopotomus at E. 53rd and Lexington. It will go on till 11:00. Do you want me to call you on Tuesday?

EX

K: Where will you be?

E: I'll be in New York -- staying at the Sherry Netherland.

K: Let one get in touch with the other.

E: On Tuesday. At least try to get to the party, but if you can get down earlier, I will arrange for you to get in incognito.

By NARA, Date 5/26

- 2 -

K: I would like to very much. I'm sorry, but the date was made months ago.

E: That's too bad.

K: At any rate, I will see the movie.

E: I'll send it down to you.

K: Can you do that? Are you coming through Washington?

E: No; Allie is in her eighth month. She has to get some rest. She shouldn't even have flown here. Allie is dying to come to Washington -- she's never been there. I will be there in March.

K: Tell me who you would like to meet and I'll make arrangements. You will have more interesting people at the Hippopotamus than I can get in Washington for you.

E: There will be a lot of action and a lot of fun.

K: I will be on the West Coast the last week in December

E: We will be there, too. We will get together.

K: In Washington, I can arrange tours in Washington. The FBI has a super tour.

E: I haven't been in Washington in 20 years, and I look forward to it. I will call you on Tuesday if I can make it on Wednesday night. This is a picture the country has been waiting for; I'll send you a print.

lds

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCOM

Mr. Kissinger/ Admiral Moorer (Secure Phone)

7:00 p.m., December 11, 1970

K: Tom, you called me?

M: I was returning your call but since I got you, I'll bring you up to date. Got the message back from Abrams, can do the operation with the ARVN facilities but takes a little longer. From a south to an administrative left. Mel Laird has approved it and I am just waiting for it to come down, go out concurring. I have the text of it here, I'll read it to you. This is to Abrams and we are cutting in Phnom Penh and Bunker. (Read the text of the message to Abrams.) Think this will get the thing off the ground. in Lon Nol and Phnom Penh.

K: Now will you bomb around Kampong Cham because the President is driving me out of my mind.

M: We have 20 sorties going in there now, B-52 sell. We have almost tripled the action in that area. I want you to know I am doing this by telephone.

K: I understand, that's fine. Knew you were going to come through on the operation. The President keeps asking me for a report.

M: The operation may not go for a few days, it takes a little time to assemble.

K: That's okay because we want it done right.

M: Included Swank and Bunker so they would know what we are doing.

K: Absolutely.

wgh

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCON
Yoshida/Kissinger
12:00 noon 12/12/70

XXxx

Y: I have the following message to you from my own friend for your own information. He and his top aides have had a meeting three hours ago on a cable received from our expert at your place.

K: Yes.

Y: It's the firm intention of my friend that we must have an agreement. He is hopeful by next Thurs or Friday at the latest. My friend would like to have one more meeting of the two experts in between. Perhaps Sunday -- tomorrow.-- in order to get some of the points clarified and have further discussions to come to an agreement. This is also because of tactical considerations of internal politics.

K: You are accepting our proposal in principle?

Y: I think so. In order to avoid any confusion in the negotiations at this stage, my friend asked me to explain the two following factors. Sunday, tomorrow, a special team of 4 members of MITI is scheduled to arrive there and meet with ______ at Capitol Hill. They will not negotiate but have useful exchange of views.

K: Who will they meet with?

Y: ______, Sen. Long, like that. In hope of a favorable climate for agreement. This is important for our political point of view as we have to be united backing and support of our government particularly to persuade the industry to accept the agreement.

K: I understand.

There

Y: There will be a final committee meeting of both Houses of the Diet next Monday and Tuesday. By decree of the Constitution my friend must attend all day long and reply to all questions raised on the issues and so he needs 3 more days to make decisions. Everything has been leaked (?) in our press. He is well aware of the deadline and is not consorting to delaying tactics. He is resolved to have an agreement and once his decision is made it should be left to the hands of the two experts and an agreement between them without much time or difficulty. We will accept the list (or last) as formal agreement.

K: I appreciate this and I will be in touch with our people and keep an eye on it.

By NARA, Date 5/26

Yoshida/Kissinger

12:00 noon

12/12/70

-2-

Y: I may have to call you again at the final stage.

K: You are free to do that.

Y: In the meantime my friend has called me and told me to convey this.

K: I appreciate this and tell your friend I appreciate his courtesy. I will talk to you in the middle of the week.

By NARA, Dato 5/26

Peter Flanigan/Mr. Kissinger (paraphrased)

December 12, 1970 12:20 p.m. IO

jlj

F: When I had my physical they found out that I was falling apart.

K: You should stop drinking. Don't all Irishmen drink? Pete, I had another call from Japan. They want our professional to meet once more.

F: OK professional. What are you giving up today?

K: They said they were accepting your proposal from yesterday but they need to talk with you once more for KENNEDY cosmetic reasons.

F: What are they wanting to meet. We have a meeting scheduled for tomorrow. Say Henry, there is a move afoot that you should be aware of. An agreement that the President entered into with KENNEDY Long. Trade portion striken from three-headed bill. They attach it with the revenue bill and it would sail right through. In my view should not just do that for following reasons: 1. Japanese relations 2. our virginity in this issue bad 3. impressions of some limitations. That would be great if they really mean it. Do you want a voluntary agreement if we could get one now?

K: Yes, but I would not want to make any more concessions. We have made many modifications.

F: Do you think Sato would be strengthened by no agreement and textile bill.

K: I almost think so.

F: As opposed to this.

K: I see no overwhelming reason to get an agreement.

F: From the President's point of view?

K: You are a free trader basically.

K: I don't know. (Fred Bergsten on line too and difficult to tell who is talking.)

B: Henry, don't you think in terms of the President's personal relationship with Sato this would be good . . . going back on his pledge.

K: I am just saying that I would not make another concession. Go with

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCONE
Novack/Kissinger
1:19 pm 12/12/70

K: I was just talking to Charlie Yost on a personal matter and he tells me that Evans and you have been persuing him with the proposition that policy differences with me were the reason for his removal and that's absurd.

N: Rollie is working on that and I don't know anything about it. He is away. He wrote a piece for Monday which I haven't seen. I don't think that's the theme. I don't think you are mentioned in it.

KX

K: Policy differences were not mentioned in it. I don't want to go into the details. I have the highest regard for Yost and the President does and I didn't know we had any policy differences.

N: I know nothing about it.

K: Where is Evans.

N: I don't think you are involved. He's at the Republican Governors' Conference at Sun Valley. At the hotel they are staying at out there.

K: He's there now? I will call him there.

By NARA, Dato 5/26

TELCOM
Irwin/Kissinger

1:25 pm

12/12/70

I: On the cable you gave me to Haile Selassie. I have checked with our people and we have it ready to go out. We have one FYI at the end to add to it which was talked over with your people -- I am not sure -- we contemplated military assistance program as before. No significant change. Two questions one, some of our people said in talking that we understand Defense knows nothing about it. Should we --

K: Absolutely. I have no interest in handling this on a Presidential basis.

I: The other feeling I have in light of this, if we are going to keep the program roughly the same, what will be the impact of the message if it's delivered to the Emperor? In other words, it says the President's understanding --

K: He didn't ask for an increase but only wanted to continue.

I: They will have priority claim. I am not objecting but I wanted to be sure.

K: Check it with Defense. The conversation took place Oct. 25 so we should do it in the next two days.

I: I will check with Defense and get it out next week.

K: Can I raise one of the bitches we handing in our channel?

I: Good channel, often a bad subject.

K: I have been reading in the papers now and again in the NY Times today that policy differences between me and Yost lead to his resignation and I lined up with Sisco against Yost on the M. E. That's not true. Yost was my candidate for this position and I didn't know they were moving him. You know I? ? ? ? . They may be ______ of differences. I don't know his views on the M. E. but no differences do I have with him. I would I have tried to get him removed.

I: ______ Joe to do it. That is erroneous on your point.

K: There was an articly by Esther Brooke. Tanner in the Times today. Evans is doing one along that line for Monday. One thing we have never done. We have had extreme differences with Green on substance but I kept him at his job when the President wanted to remove him.

I: You want to correct it.

K: I don't think it should go further.

By NARA, Date 5/26

Irwin/Kissinger

1:25 pm 12/12/70

-2-

I: I will try here. I don't think it should be --

K: There aren't differences. Yost is loyal and nothing you can undercut it and if he has differences, he should do it in that channel.

I: I am leaving for NY. I will be back ax on the 7:00 shuttle.

K: I am coming back on a government plane Sunday night. Want to come back with me?

I: I go up to see Jane. I will stay until Monday.

K: Of course. Give her my best.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCONE

Adm. Moe er/Kissinger

1:35 pm 12/12/70

M: I just wanted you to know it will be going tomorrow night.

K: You are satisfied on military grounds?

M: Yes. They had a little trouble with boats. I have taken care of the other
thing you were concerned about.

K: The bombing.

M: We are all set. It's not perfect but best we can do.

K: As long as it achieves it's objectives.

M: Yes.

K: It's not half-hearted?

M: No.

K: We have to keep these operations going. We will not get credit for letting
them chop us to pieces.

M: As soon as possible.

K: ? ? ? ?

M: Absolutely. Oil taken care of.

K: Westy has another plan.

M: They worked up another plan.

K: Could I have Haig look into it while he is there?

M: He should.

K: You just shifted the area.

M: Just the approach area. The target is the same.

K: I understand. We will talk next week.

M: How is work with Schlessigner getting along?

By NARA, Date 5/26

The President/Mr. Kissinger
December 12, 1970 3:00 p.m.
jlj

(paraphrased)

P: Did you get a bank good bill of health.

K: Yes. They have to check the lab tests.

P: You think you will live. On this Cambodian thing I noted
in the news summaries that they are very pessimistic with Cronkite
reporting they have just three weeks to survive.

K: That is completely ridiculous. Unless our intelligence is all
wrong. Have one unit in that area. Same troop as in the Compong
Chong area. We have solved the problem that concerned you the
other day. We are getting South Vietnamese to airlift to get the
troops in - the South Vietnamese that is. According to
your orders the supplies are going in with American plans.

P: They can do that. Supplies is fine. They are there to unload the
supplies if they are needed too.

K: That's Vietnamese troops.

P: I understand.

K: That thing is going to start tomorrow night. That will relieve pressure on that village that was in the news. Then in 2 weeks or 6 weeks from now when the rainy season is over and the roads dry up . . .

P: Did the bombing strikes do any good?

K: We tripled and quadrupled. . . The only thing is we only have
Cambodian ground observers and we can't really tell. But it did
help morale. That thing I talked to you about yesterday
is starting on Thursday. 25,000 SVM, , 10,000 Cambodians
. . . Then in three weeks going to do the other thing. That will
deal with the tip of it. We will have to wait until Haig comes back
to see if we want to go ahead with the other things.

P: Do we have a plan of bombing of choke points in the North yet?

K: My recommendation is to wait until we get all plans together
(mention made of alternatives) and tie it up with outever else we want
to do, otherwise we will be piddling around over there and everyone
will be raising hell with ever little thing. We have to wait until
the roads dry out. The rainy season lasted a month longer than we
thought it would. That is why the week of Jan. 1st was chosen.

By NARA, Date 5/20

-2-

P: When do you have your meeting with Mr. D.

K: Friday. If it is all right with you I will go up to Camp David in the morning and then come back in the afternoon. Not going to stay for lunch.

P: Oh sure. That is fine. Nothing is going to be done at lunch. We probably won't get much done. This Camp David thing is just a special treat for him.

K: It is very thoughtful of you. Ambassador Freeman suggested if you wanted to perhaps you could take a walk or something with Heath for 30 minutes or so. He may want to talk to you in private about domestic political things. Maybe offer whatever he decently can do to be helpful.

P: Oh sure. That would be easy to arrange at Camp David. I think he will really enjoy being there.

K: He was quite eager to be invited.

P: With our going up it is even nicer.

K: That is right. It is very nice of you. They have been very very helpful. I have invited the Chief of their intelligence to a meeting last week, on the Indian Ocean. It was a very good thing and he added a lot to our meeting. They write papers so succintly. XXXXX If only from the X aesthetics it was a pleasure.

P: Isn't it something that two major networks broadcast and believe this bullshit about Cambodia?

K: I have looked at the situation unless our intelligence is so bad that we are totally mislead. Intelligence says there are only 3,000 XXXX North Vietnamese in there. . . . Today for example we have solved the oil problem. I just talked with Adm. Moorer and they are sending it up the XXXX Mekong. When a road is cut it takes them a long time to get to the cut place but then they open it up. They only open up as far as they need to travel. Road between Sihanoukville and Phnom Penh is cut now and we have moved in some South Vietnamese troops because they are more quick on their feet. . . 1100 North Vietnamese in that hole general area. Now they have just small forces in there. Several weeks from now when some of their forces start moving in (after rainy season) we will have a problem with massive troops.

P: We do have a preemptive move planned don't we?

K: We have several. One starting early in XXXX January. It cannot begin now because roads are water logged. Right now we are fine but it is the dry season that we have to worry about.

By NARA, Date 5/26

P: Fine. It is interesting to note that some senators are squealing about the Thanksgiving giving. . . gave Laird a tough time about bombing. Mansfield has restrained. They are in the wrong wicket.

Not everyone feels this way.

K: I was at the French Embassy last night at a party. / Nancy Dickerson is no heavy weight but she said to Mike Mansfield who was sitting beside her that she could not see how to argue with the rationale that as long as we are pulling out there is no reason why we need to should not maintain enough force while we are doing it. That is the reaction I get from many people.

P: It will be if it continues too long. The press gave hardly any play to our low casualties - being down to 27. It was a good thing that I got it in the press conference. We reached about 40,000,000 with the press conference.

K: It was a spectacular success. Apparently Novak said . . . one news summary said that you seemed scared.

P: (laughter) scared!?

K: Even Kay Graham (she was at the party last night) said you were outstanding last night. She didn't know why press wanted more conferences because you did always got the better of them.

P: People are just trying to create an impression with someone who did not see it.

K: Substance and Non-substance - the impression you made was good. That bit about the mistake you made when you had no question and then you said we would go to the right or the left - whichever way you turned. It was great.

By

NARA,

Dale 5/26

EXAM Xerox

Roland Evans/Mr. Kissinger
December 12, 1970 3:45 p.m.
jlj

(paraphrased)

K: Upper crust really knows how to live. I was going to give you a leak and where are you. Out skiing.

E: I am here to work. I just want you to know that. I got up and was on the slopes by 8 a.m. and I just got in and now I am going to work. What do you have for me?

K: I talked to Charlie Yost, who is a personal friend, and you are going to say that I was responsible for his removal because of policy differences with me on the Middle East. I do not see anything that is further from the truth. There is nothing that is further from the truth.

E: I would not worry about it Henry.

K: Number one is that I don't have much contact with him on policy issues on the Middle East and I would never never seek the removal of anybody. I obviously cannot go into all the details of this thing.

E: I have tried to talk to Charlie Yost all week. He would not return my call. If you see him you might tell him he should have picked up the phone and called me. But there is a story here and I just wrote it for Monday. But it will not bother you at all. I did not say that you caused his removal but someone did.

K: When you say it will not bother me at all are you dealing with my paranoia?

E: It won't touches Kissinger.

K: In defense of Charlie I would like to say that even if you had reached him he could not have told you that I had nothing to do with this decision. He has been badly hurt - personally I mean too.

E: Yes, I agree but I do not think that you have hurt him. There is a story here and it has been written for Monday. How are you doing otherwise?

K: I am staggering along.

E: You might tell the Administration to get somebody out here to talk to the Republican governors. The only one they are sending is AGNEW a man called Agnew and he is not even on the schedule. . . . Tuesday night and the next morning will meet privately. I think they will give

By NARA, Date 5/26

him a piece of their mind. Things about the campaign and the state
of the Republican party.

K: If they get into my area you get on the phone to me and let me know.

E: I have heard a lot of talk about Rockefeller.

K: For what?

EX E: For President.

K: Don't say that. That would give me a nervous breakdown.

E: There are a lot of people dissatisfied. Well Henry, I have already
written it and you won't be bothered.

K: Hand that nextx held the dagger struck it in his friend's back...

E: I cut that out. I will be back on Wednesday. I would like to come
over to see you late next week.

K: Ummm. Tomorrow...

E: Wednesday or Thursday.

K: Either this week or the week after.

Joseph Kraft/Mr. Kissinger

December 12, 1970 3:50 p.m.

jlj

(paraphrased)

By

NARA

Date 5/26

K: I just got back a couple of hours ago and I have a telegram here from Hanoi from Nygo Gin (phonetic). I don't know whether you know him or not. I have been in touch with him for some time. It is about my previous request for coming there. It is asking me to please outline questions I would ask, places to visit and subject matter for your projected visit so that we can make a decision on this proposed visit. I should first tell you my groundrules. I will tell you everything that I am going to do but I will write the story. I do not want to embarrass you. I would appreciate you comments. But I do not want you to feel that you are getting involved in this.

HAK: Before you go I would like to talk to you in some detail.

K: I am not sure that I am going. You know these guys.

HAK: You will go.

K: Let me read this to you. (reading) his reply). 1. bilateral relations between Hanoi and Washington and the Nixon Administration . . . visit to sites . . . 2. Laos and Cambodia as seen by DRV . . . 3future of Southeast Asia and role of possible . . . and 4. daily life in DRV including visits to schools, etc.

HAK: There is only one thing that I would like to have you change - the view of DRV to US <u>Nixon</u> Government policy rather than Nixon policy.

K: Right.

HAK: What time did you get back?

K: 2 hours ago.

HAK: I am anxious to talk to you on Chile. I thought your articles on it were very perceptive. They run along my views.

K: I wanted to talk to you. How about the Harper's article? I have not seen it.

HAK: I will call you on Monday. I have not seen it yet. General Haig's son read it and called his father to tell him that he thought he had not been dealt with fairly in it.

K: What!!

HAK: He said that in it he is saying things about me. Haig has gone off to look at Cambodia and South Vietnam and will be back next week.

By

NARA, Date

5/26

After his son called he thought he should talk to me about it. But I know that Haig. . . You must remember it is a 17 year old boy who read the article. He may not have all the background to understand it.

K: I thought there would be other points of disagreement but that one never entered my head.

HAK: I am anxious to talk to you about Chile.

K: You are the author of one of the phrases in it. "We have stuck to making . . .

HAK: Was that from one of my backgrounders. I thought it was don't let's kid ourselves that he is a Marxist.

K: No not that. The other - you are the one that put that phrase in my head.

HAK: Oh, in a private talk. The thing we must do is not to let them feel that we are objecting solely on the grounds that it is a Marxist leader apart from any policies that he might follow. It is good to have you back. If you send the cable just send it with that one change about government rather than making it personal to the President.

K: Are there a lot of these out do you know?

HAK: To the best of my knowledge this is the only one. [REDACTED] Write what you want but there are some things I would like you to say that I might find helpful - attitudes, etc.

K: Please be assured that it will be just between you and me.

HAK: I have no fear of that.

By NARA, Dato 5/26

TELCONE

Dr. and Mrks. Hoffman/Kissinger

4:00 pm

12/12/70

H: We wanted to thank you.

K: You were very nice to bring this group down.

H: You impressed them very much. We debriefed on the plane and later. They were impressed by you and your efforts of talking candidly.

Mrs. H: They believed you completely.

H: They were very moved. Your honesty intimidated them. That's why they asked silly questions.

K: The girl who started out like a house afire was sweet at the end.

H: She is much brighter than her questions seemed.

K: And tortured.

H: They were very grateful and would be delighted to do it again.

K: Let's do it early in the new year. They have to do what they have to do and we do it in a complicated way.

H: And then you read the newspapers. Laird statements yesterday.

K: They can't see it but not everything is orchestrated.

H: But they can't believe that.

K: It's impossible to believe that.

H: They heard a bulletin yesterday while we were eating dinner. They see the hopelessness of working it out. One hand doing it and one hand doing something else.

K: It's hard to work together. I am appreciative that you called. I am planning to come on the 16th. Will it be over by 10:00?

H: 9:30 or so. Incidentally, with that group of students yesterday they would have no objection to your coming back again.

Mrs H: In fact, they were anxious to have you back.

K: The girl probably would have been against it.

By NARA, Date 5/26

Hoffman/Kissinger
4:00 pm 12/12/70

H: Not after.

K: One can so rarely do what one wants in this job.

H: Any chance of getting a rest?

K: Not much. Might get a vacation after the end of February and the annual report.

H: Not for one hour a day?

K: No

MRs. H: If de Gaulle could --

K: He had power and I have to maneuver.

Mrs. H: When you are here Wed. and would like to come back for a drink, please do.

K: I will if it's over at 9:30. Is it a missed affair?

H: Yes.

K: I will get to see the wives of my colleagues.

Mrs. H: I will not be there. I can't stand that kind of group.

K: Neither can I!

Mrs. H: I will see you here after.

K: Thank you for calling and I appreciated your bringing the group down.

H: We will see you in February.

By NARA, Dato

5/26

TELCORN

Len Garment/Kissinger
afternoon 12/12/70

(Came in after start of conversation)

G: I know I have been told no meeting for the time being. He felt it was a good time because of political things he is doing and wondering if such a meeting would be helpful. The things to move along and get them on a parallel track. I want your idea if it will me messed up if Finch presents it on the basis that basis.

K: If it gets to such -- if it's turned around that he feels something from him --

G: Managed in some way so they will be doing something helpful.

K: Given the personalities involved, the think the opportune moment has been missed. If it works easy, fine, and if not --

G: If he can camoflage (?) it.

K: You should tell your friend that they shouldn't press it now.

G: Downstairs?

K: I don't know if it's upstairs or downstairs. Finch shouldn't press it downstairs.

G: He is so dense.

K: He has satisfied that his ego will prevail.

G: In the face of need. I would like a few minutes of your time during the week when you can spare it.

K: It's important that you do it. Call Monday morning.

G: I will.

By NARA, Dato 5/26

TELCORN

Brian McDonnell/Kissinger
afternoon 12/12/70

M: How was lunch?

K: Still going on.

M: Everything is all right.

K: Sure.

M: Nothing changed but I don't want you to do that.

K: What will you line on?

M: Lean on the Lord and see what x comes. But the other is wrong.

K: Why?

M: I don't want you -- If I have to, I will do it but without your
It's my honor.

K: I have volunteered it.

M: I am against it.

K: If I had it I would give it to you. Why not let me use my name to guarantee
it?

M: I would prefer not at this time with that person. I am using my best
judgement and Alice agrees.

K: With all due respect Brian -- there are many good qualities of an Irishman,
But good judgment is not one of them.

M: It keeps the race alive. Alice also wanted you to know that she agrees
it would be wrong.

K: On this particularly she has more influence with me. I will think about
it 48 hours and come up with some proposition.

M: The world is make so it will work out all right.

K: Financial things are easiest to solve.

M: There's an article about in you the Philadelphia Bulletin. An old one.

K: I never remember it.

By NARA, Date 5/26

McDonnell? Kissinger
afternoon 12/12/70

-2-

M: Winston's friend is managing editor there. I will send you a copy of it so you can send it to your father.

K: My father will think thank you for it.

M: Things rough for you right now? With all those visitors?

K: They will get worse. Just cranking up again.

M: Because of the Bergus situation I am worried about you.

K: They will work out all right.

M: Don't want to see you used.

K: When that is reached, it's time to leave but not yet.

M: Going in the opposite direction?

K: No but it will be all right. When will you and Alice be down here?

M: When this situation is cleared up.

K: I will talk to you early next week.

M: Don't give that painting back until I see it again.

K: I won't give it back until I leave her.

M: Could I bring someone to photograph it?

K: Certainly.

M: That picture really moves me.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCORN
Amb. Yest/Kissinger

early afternoon 12/12/70

K: Where are you?

Y: In NY.

K: I wanted to call you -- I have been meaning to call on a personal basis for
several weeks because I read stories that disagreements between us on the M.E.
have been led to your resignation.

Y: Evans and Novak have said that for weeks.

K: You were my choice for this post and nothing changed my mind. I knew
nothing about this until 2 days before this happened.

Y: I have been puzzled about how this originated.

K: I don't know because I stay out of personnel matters entirely. You and
I have never impinged on each other on the M.E. Things that bother us have
been tactics on 4 Power meetings.

Y: Tactics and timing.

K: And that didn't concern me at all.

Y: I replied to all inquiries on this subject.

K: I don't care about the press but I have high regard for you and I don't
want you to think -- it was on a political basis and had nothing to do with
your performance.

Y: That's what the President said.

K: The first I heard was that Moynihan came to me two days before he leaked
the story saying he was going to accept it. I didn't know before that. Alex
was with me when the story broke and I tried to make sure your services
were retained in a high capacity. I don't want this to go to the press but if
I had complaints about you, I would go to you. The last thing I would do
was remove a man from a position because I disagree with him. The only
disagreements with you were tattical and I cannot name three of them now.

Y: Of course I was aware that on taking this job as a Democrat and pro-
fesional it was precarious.

K: You did it with great skill and I have not the slightest feeling that there
were substantive differences that I had not even warrant conversation let
alone this drastic step.

By NARA, Date 5/26

Amb. Yost/Kissinger

early afternoon 12/12/70

-2-

Y: It annoyed me that 3 weeks passed after the leak came out before anything was said.

K: I wanted to call you the week of the leak but I couldn't. I was in touch with Irwin, Johnson and the President to see what could be done to undo the damage.

Y: The President was gracious yesterday.

K: He doesn't disagree with you. That isn't the part that bothers me.

Y: They are trying to find excuses or explanations. It doesn't bother me.

K: Since I feel responsible for the origin of the appointment and since I have such high regard for you, I hope your services will be kept.

Y: The President made some suggestions but my inclination is to go back to writing.

K: You can always do that. I hope we can call on you soon from time to time but I wanted you to know you are not being penalized for your views. Quite apart from any official thing, my observation is that you performed with great humanity which did not surprise me.

By NARA, Dalo 5/26

TELCOM
Sisco/Kissinger

10:25 am

12/14/70

K: You know your instructions?

S: What?

K: Not to settle the M. E. before July of 72. In time for the campaign -- in particular
putting it to the Israelis.

S: Did you read the Evans' article this morning?

K: No, I can't face it. Are we both in it?

S: You read it and I will talk to you about it.

K: When I saw it in intercept it was ridiculous but it's turning into a campaign.

S: One day we should chat about it over lunch. I will talk with you about it during
the week. We will be getting to you in the next couple of hours a telegram of response
to Golda which indicates commitment on planes. I don't want to convey this to the
Israelis before tomorrow. If you have the President clear it by the end of the day --

K: How about first thing in the morning?

S: That's fine.

K: When do you want it?

S: I would like it cleared today. I don't want to convey it today though.

K: Why?

S: Because Rabin said this morning to leave a little light between Dayan's visit
and your answer. So Tues. is fine. I will send it over.

K: I will read the Evans article. Any sense in my calling the Secy.?

S: He didn't like it any. more than I do. We talked about this yesterday because of
the Esterbrooke article on Sat.

K: The Tanner one outraged me. I didn't see the Evans article. I called Yost and
said no matter what had happened it wasn't policy differences.

S: you read this. Secy. is clear it isn't policy differences. I told the Secy. to
make it clear to Charlie this isn't the question.

By

NARA, Dato

5/26

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Professor Doty

11:29 a.m., December 14, 1970

K: Paul, how are you?

D: Are you going to be free any tonight? Dorothy's husband
will be here. But that will make it uneven.

K: What do you mean?

D: You and I will have to pair off, unless you have a date.

K: I haven't tried to find a girl -- it's tough in this town.

D: We can go out and have an early quick dinner. If you change
your mind about bringing someone, let me know.

K: I didn't think you could do anything anyway.

D: I could ask Kay Graham or somebody like that.

K: Maybe I should ask Kay Graham. Should I ask her?

D: She's reasonably interesting, and it will keep it from being
an orgy.

K: It will not be an orgy anyway; I guarantee you. Let us keep
that in mind. I may give her a call.

D: Tell her I would like to see her again. I'll see you after the
meeting concerning details. They are staying at the Hay Adams.
I'll see you around 5:30 or 6:00.

K: Okay, Paul.

lds

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCON

Bill Moyers/Kissinger

11:30 am

12/14/70

M: Nice of you to call back. I am sorry I couldn't get down on Thurs. Could I talk about this other thing?

K: Certainly.

M: We should talk about this in deep confidence. David will call you himself and it should be a fresh approach. In our meeting this morning we put you as our first choice as becoming full time paid President of that organization. The consensus of feeling was that you are not available but we felt we should find out explicitly. You are my first choice because of there is no one on the scene who has the prestige and power.

K: It may interest you to know you are my first choice.

M: Mutual admiration society. Two different leagues. I just wanted -- I told David Young on the phone this morning that I hoped you would consider the prospects of this for when you consider leaving that place 2-3 years from now.

K: They won't hold it that long.

M: The hope this morning that --

K: I would leave early. If I may be presumptive with you as a friend, I intended to discuss this problem of when you leave with you. No one understands that problem better than you. You are one of two I had decided to discuss it with.

M: I told David Young I would come down on Jan. 8 and you could keep your option open until then. I hope you won't tell D. Rockefeller it's out of the question until then.

K: This isn't what I had thought you wanted to discuss with me. I had made such a strong recommendation of you and it hadn't occured to me that they might --

M: The Council would like to have you and would settle for me happily but not ecstatically. I don't have a profession but it's not the kind of thing that's at the center of my life. I am more interested in domestic affairs and politics and journalism and not just foreign policy. I appreciate your putting me forward and I was happy to put you forward but I wasn't the only one. We felt we could do no better than you.

K: I hadn't even thought of this position. I had thought for the last 2-3 weeks more seriously of leaving -- for no particular reason because I am in the strongest position it may be a good time to leave. No problem but it's not something I want to discuss on the phone. Somany intangibles involved.

any-1

By NARA, Dato 5/26

Bill Moyers/Kissinger

11:30 am 12/14/70

-2-

M: I always felt when a man decided to leave he would do it on an intuitive base and then find the rational.

K: No one can encourage you to leave. I will leave but not for some reason.

M: That's why I left. You just be aware --

K: It's highly improbable that I will do it but I will not turn it down completely if David calls. Then we will talk.

M: I wanted to alert you to this discussion. I would like you to treat it as original ide when you talk to David. Just don't say it's impossible.

K: You understand as few as others would. People ask what my plans are when I leave. I never give it a thought.

M: I had decided to leave before I knew what I would do. I am not a professional and I don't know what I will be doing a year from now.

K: I have no proposal but I have an idea of what you should do but some idea of your place in society. If I have a need to see you before the 8th I will come to NY. And we will keep this totally between us.

By

NARA, Dato

5/26

TELECON

Dr. Teller/Mr. Kissinger

11:42 a.m., December 14, 1970

K: How are you?

T: Fine; very much better than some of our mutual friends would like me to be.

K: As long as you are alive, that must be the case.

T: We have a war-crimes strike in Berkley. They had a big meeting and march on my house. We've been sort of nervous.

K: If there were less than 1,000, they were fighting on unequal ground.

T: Actually, about 1,000 started. By the time they got to my house after boring speeches, they were down to 40. When a few policemen showed themselves... They planned another meeting which did not come off. So, I say I am fine. I just wanted to say hello.

K: How long are you in town?

T: I'm leaving tomorrow morning. I'll probably be back on the eve of the 16.

K: Where are you now?

T: At the hotel.

K: I have had one thought -- something I want you to do on a personal basis. The Chinese are doing some construction which is inexplicable -- either they are nuts or it's something new. I have wanted a genius to look at it. All explanations I received are absurd.

T: I think I cannot help you. I am not a genius. I know how you can get it done.

K: I want you to tell me what it suggests to you.

T: I will look at it, but I would prefer to get it in Livermore where they have a group trained in such things. When should I come in? I don't have anything until 2:00 when I see Johnny Foster.

By NARA, Date 5/26

Dr. Teller/Mr. Kissinger

11:42 a.m., December 14, 1970

- 2 -

K: Come in at 12:30.

T: I'll bet you 100 to I won't be able to help you, but I might be able to move it on from there.

K: There's no one else around here. Come to my office and ask for Colonel Kennedy who is sitting for General Haig.

T: How shall I come?

K: Come in from Pennsylvania Avenue.

T: All right.

lds

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCOM

Ann & Kirk Douglas/Kissinger

11:55 am

12/14/70

AD: We are going to the WH dinner on Thurs.

K: I knew you were invited. I have your husband on the other line.

AD: You talk with him.

KD: I just came back from Madrid a few days ago. Finished up a picture. We are coming to Washington.

K: I understand you are going to the WH dinner Thurs. night. I must try to sit next to Ann.

D: We will make it a test of your power.

K: How long will you be here? I am invited to the lunch Valenti is giving but I will be at Camp David and don't know if I can get back.

D: 8-9 people for lunch. Also dinner at the Bradens.

K: I am the guest of honor at the Indian Embassy.

D: We are leaving the next day.

K: Want to have lunch?

D: That's Sat. I doubt -- we will be leaving about that time in order to get back. I am disappointed disappointed but I understand. When will you be out here?

K: Between Christmas and New Years.

D: We will be at Palm Springs. Will you be there with the President?

K: No, but I am taking staff out to write the President foreign policy statement.

D: Probably at that time we will be in Palm Springs but maybe in Los Angeles for a day or so. Do you know Palm Springs? It's quite nice.

K: I like it.

D: Maybe if you can get away for a day we could have a dinner here.

K: I don't know if I will have helicopter support this time.

D: It's only an hour and a half from where you'll be.

By NARA, Dato 5/26

Douglas/Kissinger

11:55 am 12/14/70

-2-

K: We will see what we can do. Why don't you and Ann come in for a chat on Friday?

D: If you are free we will come in late in the afternoon about 4:00. I will call your office.

K: And I will try to get from Camp David for lunch. I might drop into the Braden's for a drink.

D: That would be nice. We will try to see you.

K: I am distressed when you are in town that I can't reciprocate.

D: We know these things happen.

K: I didn't hear about you coming until last Friday. If I stand someone up for someone I like, especially Indians, you know I have no choice.

D: We will get together.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCON

K/ Graham/Kissinger
12:45 pm 12/14/70

G: Congratulations on catching the ____ delegation kit. They just announced it at our meeting.

K: What are you doing in Sun Valley when I want you to go to dinner tonight.

G: I told you I was working out here for you. While you idle away. '

K: I met with the head of your editorial section this morning and I want an honest report on foreign affairs for at least a week.

G: Are you going to try to escape lunch, asking me to dinner?

K: No, I will ask you to both.

G: I am having dinner with Ronald Reagan tonight instead of you.

K: I will leak to Maxine Cheshire. Have you checked into his legal past?

G: No, but I will. I don't ask for a week in return.

K: Wait until he gets you alone. I wanted to have you come to dinner with a group from Cambridge.

G: I would have like that.

K: I wanted a Democrat.

G: We will check about who was at that dinner at my house.

K: I was the only one there.

G: No, there was another but I can't remember who. Do you think I have company out here?

K: After that dinner partner tonight --

G: We don't pay off for breakfast.

K: No, it was dinner. I have given up. You will be back Wed.?

G: It takes 9 1/2 hours.

K: I was thinking of next Mon.

G: I have Channing Philips but I can change that.

K: 1:00 at the Sans Souci? Or my office?

G: I like both your office and the Sans Souci.

K: & We'll see

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCONE

Bonnie Angelo/Kissinger

afternoon 12/14/70

K said the thought that his conversation with Miss Angelo was completely off the record and that he didn't know his part of the quote would be in the story. He felt the part on him made him look like a cad. Miss Angelo said she hadn't used any of the conversation regarding Son Tay which she had believed was all that was on an off-the-record basis. She said they'd checked it with Miss St. John znd that she'd been very cute about it. She also thought K sounded cute and human but she offered, half jokingly, do something that would make amends and said she sincerely felt that what she had quoted had been on-the-record when she had talked with NAK.

K then said that in truth it was supposed to be a Christmas present for the President and BA had ruined the whole thing. Seriously, he said he felt that they'd have to get the ground rules straightened out and that he'd thought the whold conversation had been a joke.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCOM

Mxxx McDonnell/Kissinger

2:08 pm

12/14/70

M: Listen, I solved it was I put up the stocks for sale.

K: I am sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

M: Isn't it lucky that I have a solution?

K: But it is solved. When I get out of this job I will be a capitilist.

M: I am turning into one quickly. How are you?

K: Fine. When will you be down?

M: After Christmas.

K: I will go see my children for Christmas.

M: I see the boss will be home.

K: But I will go to the West Coast between Christmas and New Year's to work on the annual report. Let's keep in close touch.

M: I just wanted you to know because I know you tried.

K: I didn't do enough.

M: Accomplishment isn't -- we have to live on ____.

K: ______ Kennedy said show me a good looser and I will show you a losing loser.

M: And anything you need done on a personal level I will be there.

K: Try to come down when I am in town.

M: OK, boss, and smile!

By NARA, Dato 5/26

TELCON
Ehrlichman/Kissinger
2:25 pm 12/14/70

E: I just had a call from Cliff Hardin who is going to dinner with Sir Alec Douglas Home. He has spent the afternoon with the Prime Minister and thinks it's urgent for him to see the President before the Prime Minister does. He says he knows what the PM will say. So will you see what you can do?

K: Including askingxx head of the French Foreign Office to the dinner.

E: I thought that was the height of diplomacy.

K: What did Kennedy do to deserve that this morning?

E: You noticed.

K: I don't gag at many things but this did it.

E: You are very perceptive. I don't imagine more than 40-60 percent saw through that.

K: I will see what I can do on that other.

By NARA, Dalo 5/26

TELCONE
Mrs. Freeman/Kissinger

3:57 pm

12/14/70

Kasked her to go to dinner with him and the Zinberg's and Paul Doty that evening.
She said she couldn't, although she appreciated being asked, because the Ambassador
was returning and she should be there. And she didn't think he would feel like going
out, with the time change. She mentioned that the Ambassador would probably want
to see HAK in the next couple of days. She then mentioned the WH dinner for Heath
on Thurs. and suggested that HAK should arrange it so that they sit together.
HAK said she'd be sitting with the higher ups and he would be in the lower echelons
and therefore he doubted there was anything he could do but he would see.

By NARA, Dato 5/26

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Arnold Weber (OMB)

4:47p.m., December 14, 1970

W: I was asked to call you to inform you that the President has apparently indicated we should go ahead with plans for abolishing OEP, which is one of the members of the NSC or certainly in your area of interest. The purpose of this call is to inform you, and if you or your staff have any comments... This recommendation was made by the Ash Council.

K: That's one way to get a man off the NSC.

W: I believe it's in the interest of economy.

K: I have no immediate view. I will see if any of my colleagues do.

W: This is confidential -- General Lincoln is not aware of it. Knowing how these things work, we can't say with assurance whether this will happen, but we thought you should be aware of it.

K: All right.

lds

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELCON
Laird/Kissinger

4:52 pm

12/14/70

M: We had a frontal assault on our system by DOD in front of everyone. It's such a change, I wanted to talk to you. ______ in VN as part of the program and your systems analyst people were involved and the JCS in their individual areas. After the SRG agrees we want to send it to the field to see what they think. Dave said it was a bunch of crap and should be run through the JCS. If he felt that way, to take me on in front of everyone else is bad.

L: It must have been after the meeting of the JCS.

K: They were on it.

L: It's hitting me cold. Let me check into it.

K: If we have a disagreement we shouldn't work it out in front of State, CIA, and everyone else.

L: I will get it. I want to find out what's going on. I thought maybe it was because of the Joint Staff.

K: We were making no plans. We wanted to find out the ______ this year and next year.

L: The Joint Chiefs are concerned with the way systems analysis work with your shop. They feel they don't check with us before sending things to your people. With Lynn and now Smith.

K: If they think they will get a WH more concerned about them, they are out of their head.

L: It will take time to square away the trouble. Great vote today.

K: Who were the 3 against it?

L: I think there were 4. 5-8 to take the Symington Amendment out. It was good, good. I have been talking to Cooper and he and Nk Javits were so made with Fulbright because he went so far on Son Tay and John Sherman was madder than hell. I will have to take him to Camp David for dinner again.

K: He is a bore but his wife I like.

L: I will look into that.

K: If you could get it squared away. It's demoralizing on people working on it for months. It's because it's got to be done and should be done in harmony.

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELECON

Professor Graubard/Mr. Kissinger

5:50 p.m., December 14, 1970

G: How are you? Are you taken this coming Sunday? I will be in Philadelphia during the morning and early afternoon. I thought I could come on to Washington if you are free for dinner.

K: Nancy will be down here, but I may be free for dinner.

G: Could I check later in the week with you? It occurred to me that it would be easy to combine this with the Philly thing. Shall I check Wednesday or Thursday?

K: Why don't you check Thursday? I will be in Cambridge Wednesday anyway for the evening -- a dinner for Frederick. I'm coming up earlier to see my children. I'll go back that night. I think I owe it to Frederich.

G: I will call on Thursday. You are well, I pray?

K: Fine. I look forward to seeing you.

lds

By NARA, Date 5/26

TELECON

General Hughes/Mr. Kissinger

5:54 p.m., December 14, 1970

H: I just wanted a quick reaction. Did that paper provide any help at all?

K: It was very helpful, though we haven't had a meeting.

H: I will keep that stuff coming when appropriate.

K: It was very helpful. You can tell them it was the first clear piece of work.

H: Let me know if it isn't.

K: To tell the truth, it is in my interest.

H: When there is something we feel you are not getting a fair shake on, we will give you a paper.

K: Good; thank you.

lds

Albert Wohlstetter/Mr. Kissinger

December 14, 1970 6:00 p.m.

jlj

(not verbatim)

By

NARA

Dato

5/20

K: Al, I am sorry I have been so very late in getting back to you. I think it was because some messages never got through to me properly but also I have been terribly busy.

W: I have decided there are quite a few things that are not getting through to you and that is why I wanted to talk to you personally. Have you seen the PSAC report by the ASW panel? It was done in April of this year.

K: In a vague way.

W: You have not seen it yourself?

K: If I have I do not remember it clearly enough.

W: Dubridge sent it on in July after briefing by entire Committee. This was one of the things that you should have seen. There is also some of my own knowledge that I have and things I have come in contact with I feel you should be familiar with. I do not think you are getting the things you should be getting - specifically on the subject that you asked me to take a look at. On others too. I feel it is important that I see you directly. I have no desire to clutter up yours and my life. Henry, are you coming out to California the end of this month?

K: There is a good chance.

W: Perhaps that would do it. I have just transferred all of my belongings to California for the winter. I had a brief talk with Wayne. My feeling here is while I think that Wayne knows his field he has some limitations on this subject. My talking to Wayne does not serve as a substitute for communication and some of his assistants . . . specifically from Jim. He is ideologically much in the way ΣΚ Slocum was. However, do not raise this with Wayne.

K: Obviously not.

W: I have . . . Meredith ???? over in Europe and it was all a childish misunderstanding. I have been looking at the basic questions you have raised. The study that has been done is not only terrible but not the sort of thing that can be revised within the government in a very short period of time. The bureaucracy wheels just don't move that fast.

K: Al, it is essential that I get a concrete proposal and not just an intellectual enterprise. I have enough problems with the bureaucracy myself.

By NARA, Date 5/26

W: I know. On this score it is hardest to get them moving. The wheels of the bureaucracy turn slowly - however, there are some exact parallels with my experience in early and mid '50s when I spent more time and effort than you have to devote. It took 92 briefings.

K: When I come to the west coast I will make every effort to see you.

W: I will suggest to Wayne a more restrictive set of questions to be raised.

K: That would be good.

W: Initially questions like how does the system work as it is, as it is programmed, as it is raised how does it fair. To get an optimum use of these questions. It is hard to get them to be honest on the first try. I will have some suggestions for him on that score and I have been doing some thinking on the project you wanted me to take a look at.

K: Thank you Al, goodby.

By NARA, Dato 5/26

Telcon

Mr. Hewitt, Australia

Dec 14, 1970; 6:20 pm

H: Thank you for being available. I hope this is not inconvenient. The Prime Minister wanted me to ring you. You remember when I spoke to you in mid-November I mentioned the question of one of your background briefings.

K: Yes, indeed I do.

H: I came to the PM's notice at the weekend that your Ambassador here it is said was seeing a member of the press gallery and providing him regularly copies of all your briefings to the leader of the opposition and the leader of the opposition is not making any secret of this.

K: The only thing I need to hear is that you don't get copies of these.

H: No, indeed I don't.

K: Do you think it is stupidity or design?

H: I don't know.

K: Honestly speaking between ourselves.

H: I think there is a considerable element of stupidity, but I cannot fathom whether it is by design because of the closeness that has built up between him and Whitcomb.

K: I will put a stop to it, but I don't think I had put a stop to it two weeks ago. Let me assure you we have absolutely no interest in intervening in your electoral campaign. There are the warmest feelings between the President and the Prime Minister of all the leaders he has to deal with. We would do nothing - we would lean the other way. I will make certain your Ambassador here gets a look at my backgrounders. But the first thing I will do is stop this genius from doing what he is doing. I don't know his name.

H: Rice -- Walter Rice.

K: Is he a professional?

H: No. He is a non-career man. Came out of retirement. He used to be with Reynolds Metals.

K: There may be some other things we can do. I understand the situation. Let me see what we can do. You can be sure there will be absolutely no

By NARA, Date 5/26

Hewitt (Cont'd)

embarrassment. Give the PM my warmest regard. I am notified. I know
the President will be outraged when he hears of it.

H: That is a kindly response, Henry.

K: You can tell the PM he won't distribute any more backgrounders. But we may be able to do something further.

H: Right. He seems to have built up a relationship with Whitlam.

K: I understand. I have to look into the circumstances that led to his
appointment.

H: You have been forthcoming in what you have said already, Henry. The PM will be delighted. This is a senior member of the gallery and Whitlam offers to let pressmen come into his office to look at his briefs...

K: Let me see what I can do.

ms

By NARA, Dato 5/26

TELCON

Mr. Kissinger/Secretary Laird

7:30 p.m., December 14, 1970

K: Mel, I want to talk to you about the budget for a minute. The President and I have been talking and he wants to start loosening the strings a bit on the Defense budget but before he does it formally he wants to get from you what 74 would look like.

L: $74.5

K: He is willing to go up as high as 77 on a reasonably good program. Wouldn't want to get the Chiefs all excited though. Do it for 75, 76 and 77.

L: We can add on. When do you have to have it, not tomorrow?

K: At the end of the week.

L: Yeah. I've got to keep it out of channels though.

K: Are you going to do it with the Chiefs?

L: Only with Tom. Got to keep everybody aboard. Had a meeting down in the tank with the Chiefs today and ________ thinks they are bypassing my office and giving stuff to Larry Lynn.

K: I don't care how you get the 11 battalions and where they come from.

L: I understand that. The Systems Analysis types bother the JCS and the Chiefs. They always clue me in before they do anything. They think my staff sends stuff to your staff. I am having a meeting tomorrow to get things straightened out.

K: We are not undermining the morale of the Joint Chiefs.

L: Don't worry about that, I am going to crack down on Systems Analysis and I think the best means of communications is Pursley and Murphy if we can. Systems Analysis and Joint Chiefs are in shape.

K: When I walked into the meeting, I thought this was a paper like a 1,000 other papers. I didn't know tension was involved.

L: No tension.

K: The issue -- Dave and I should talk on the phone, we shouldn't challenge each other in meetings in front of everybody else.

By NARA, Date 5/26

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Adm. Moorer
12/14/70; 7:35 p.m.

K: In order to get the budget thing on the track, I have asked Laird to do the same thing that I asked you and he could come to you with it. Just don't be surprised. I just wanted to make sure that the thing gets into channels.

M: Did he just volunteer that?

K: No, I volunteered it. I told him the President ordered it.

M: I will take care of the problem. Don't worry. You know, on the operation things have been going fairly well. They have done exceedingly well in getting into position.

K: And you are pushing this other operation? I don't mean what happened this afternoon. I mean the one in early January.

M: I am going there on the 4th.

K: We hope to get it kicked off just about then. I Okay. You had a talk with Knowles this afternoon?

M: Yes. A message is going out . . .

K: I don't want to get into operations.

M: As far as I am concerned, I am grateful if you get into operations.

K: We should not challenge ourselves in open meetings.

M: Yes. Don't worry, I will take care of it.

feg

By. NARA, Dato 5/26

W: I took out everything we had talked about taking out before.' I took out the comparison of the three presidents. The part where you talk about your children is out. I thought it was warm and very personal and so I just didn't think we would put it in. The part about your being a swinger is cute and nice so we are going to leave that ix in if that is all right. After all anyone who can give someone an elephant. What did Nancy Maginnis get?

K: I did not send anyone an elephant. She got a 1,000 pound ivory
elephant.

W: I did not even get a thank you note. We are planning now to run it Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday between 7:30 and 8:00. I do not want to be held to that but that is how it is going now. It will be 10 minutes each time - 1/2 hour of actual content.

K: David Frost has complained to me that I did the Today show before I did his. He said I told him that the next show I did would be his.

W: Ix I think the Today Show is better for you. The Frost Show is inxx big in New York and Washington but in the Midwest it has to fight with the Merv Griffith show with all the housewives watching. Besides, did you tell him that I had more sex appeal than he has. Jill St. John has the elephant.

K: I can do better than that for you. I found doing the interview with you to be very relaxing and enjoyable. Jill St. John has the publicity. Ziegler bugs me practically every day about letting myself get talked into doing it without shaving.

W: You came in and asked us if you needed a shave and we told you you do not need it. Seriously you looked good.

K: I trust you.

W: What did you do on 60 Minutes?

K: I did it in the morning.

W: I did not look at it alone because I didn't want to be prejudiced and now that I know you better. If we did it now that we know each other better it would be too cute. . . . I may have to edit some of it a little bit but I will check with you. If I change anything I will call you and read it to you. Is that all right?

K: I trust you. XXXXX Will you let me know when you come down next.

W: I have no idea when I will be down next. I want to stay here over the holidays.