OCLASSIFIED

E.O 12938, Sept. 3.6

By: KMLW NASHA, Data: 5/13/64

3

K: No, they'll be grateful for it if there is a ceasefire six months afterwards.

L: Yeh. OK, Henry.

K: Thank you, Mel.

L: We're in good shape. I just did want to remind you about that one thing.

K: I appreciate it.

L: I had a press conference today and took on the McGovern budget.

K: Oh great!

L: And you've got all the material I used. It's over in your office here. They'll probably pouch it out to you tonight.

K: Good. That's marvelous.

L: OK. Take care. Bye.

The President's Office in the Senate of the Republic of Peru

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

Sp. K.M.Y. NASA Date 5/12/04

TELCONE (San Clemente)

Flanigan/Kissinger

12:23 p.m. - 7/6/72

K: Hello.

F: Hello, Henry.

K: Pete, how are you?

F: I'm fine, thank you. Henry, we haven't heard a word back from your friend in Canada. Is he the twin brother of your friend in Tokyo?

K: What do you mean?

F: Well, he just doesn't get the word back. No, I'm being facetious. Are we supposed to do anything?

K: No.

F: Is he going to come to us when he decides what he wants if anything? And we assume nothing in the interim?

K: Well, I had assumed that he was setting up something with George Shultz.

F: He has not talked to George and there was no contract with me when I was up there and I just wanted you to know that it's . . . nothing's happened.

K: All right. I'll check.

F: Secondly, all the announcements of the coming on lend-lease were put together. The pages will be going to the President . . . . I personally think that if we could get that one agreed to at the meeting over there that would be a good thing. Do you have any different opinions or feelings on that?

K: If we don't seem to anxious and too pressing.

F: No, no, they come to us.

K: Things are going pretty well. We'd still like to have it announced after Peterson gets back.

F: After he's back.

Re: Question 3. How is the report in the
lieuten. and 1st. command.
Militia made?

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sect. 3.6

By: KHLW NASHA, Date: 5/13/64

K: Yeh.

done

F: All right. Why is that? Just so it's next here rather than there.

K: That's right.

F: OK. A final question.

K: And because we're not all that eager to push through the credits and MFN. The more time we can gain the better.

F: We can't push through the MFN anyway.

K: Yeh, but we just don't want to seem all that eager. It's a questionable week or two.

F: Right. Fine. I'll have no trouble there. I believe that you told me just at the end of our visit over there that we had been stonewalled on the interest matter and that the last day or so Brezhnev had said to the President we could __3%__ with some indication . . .

K: Dobrynin mentioned that in passing.

F: Dobrynin mentioned it.

K: Yeh.

F: You are determining when you want the additional announcement on this grain thing.

K: Yes, Saturday. There will be one announcement on Saturday.

F: You don't want to do the two stages?

K: No.

F: You want them to sign and do the whole thing.

K: Saturday.

F: Have you told Peterson?

K: I told him that we can live with either but then the President preferred to do it in one.

By: KMLW NARA Date: 5/12/04

3

F: He will do it out there?

K: Yes, but there should be a followup briefing by you and Peterson in Washington an hour or so after the announcement here. I will call Peterson and make sure he's aboard.

F: OK. That's all I got.

K: Butz will be out of town.

F: So will I in all probability so we'll let Peterson do it.

K: As long as he makes clear that it isn't his show.

F: I think that'll be made clear by having the announcement out there.

K: Right. But we also want to feature Butz.

F: Yeh, all right, we'll bring in that second man over there at Agriculture who's a real ______.

K: Well he should have an Agriculture Department guy there.

F: Right, I'll see that that happens.

K: OK.

F: Thank you, Henry.

K: Thank you, Pete.

After I did my part.

After he's back.

Re: [insert telephone number here]

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.6

By: K.H. W.

NASA Date: 5/13/64

TELCONE (San Clemente)

Mrs. Zifferan/Kissinger

12:28 p.m. - 7/6/72

K: Hello.

Z: Good morning, Henry.

K: Mickey, how are you?

Z: All right. Blessed be the Peacemaker.

K: It was good to see you.

Z: Oh, it was lovely to see you. Will we get to see you again?

K: Yes, I'm going to have the Soviet Ambassador here in town next Tuesday. I'm giving a dinner for him in Los Angeles and I wondered whether you and Paul would like to come. It's upstairs at the Bistro.

Z: Well, we'd love to - what day is it?

K: The 11th.

Z: I'm sure, we're fine.

K: I just want to make sure you guys aren't going to Miami and vote the wrong way.

Z: We can't go. We were booted out. And Paul you know, Muskie asked him to go just in case and Paul said look you know he loves Miami anyway, even in season. But Muskie isn't going to be resurrected - they all hate each other too much now.

K: OK, good.

Z: We'd love to be there and it's all right on my book. Give me a number to call if there's a problem with Paul.

K: Area Code **SANITIZED**

Z: I have another question. What is the time and the costume?

K: 7:30; Informal.

Z: Right. We'll look forward to seeing you and meeting him.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E1012368
By CHNARA Date Elstol

TELCONE (San Clemente)

Dobrynin/Kissinger

12:30 p.m. - 7/6/72

D: Hello, Henry.

K: Anatol, one minor thing. Out here we just can't get the press
together at 8 o'clock without giving the impression of an emergency.
Could you sign at noon rather than 11?

D: Well, quite frankly, I could tell you why. It's a small thing but it
is a point. Mr. ______ wants to leave for New York.

K: Yeh, can't he leave at 1'oclock?

D: He wants to leave in the morning. Myself, we want to go to see
our granddaughter who lives just outside of Washington so my wife
and I want to go there to spend a Saturday with her because we can
only see once a week. Would it be all right if we were on Friday late,
let's say . . . we could announce it the next day but we would sign
it. . . .

K: Oh, you wouldn't announce the signing?

D: No, we are not going to announce it.

K: I see. Then I don't give a damn when you sign it. Then sign it
Saturday morning.

D: Morning all right? Or we could sign tomorrow, it would be a little
better for us.

K: No we prefer it Saturday morning. Sign it Saturday morning.

D: . . . . . arrange a more specific time - maybe around 10 o'clock.

K: OK, but keep it secret, will you.

D: Oh, I will.

K: Well, you are so loquacious.

D: You know we are much more ______ than you are in the sense
of keeping secrets.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority Folsom
By CIVARA Date 5/15/57

K: OK, and we'll keep our guys. . .

D: It's really, Henry, so inconvenient for you if we sign it tomorrow.

K: Well, let me check on that.

D: Because if it could be signed around 6 o'clock or 7 o'clock, we will keep it secret. This I promise you. Nobody will know until you will announce it.

K: OK. I'll do my best.

D: Yes, just look about this.

K: OK.

D: You will call then.

K: Yes.

D: Because . . . . . . . he is going to . . . . on the apartment, what's his name, . .

K: Lynch. Yeh, I'll call Peterson immediately.

D: Yeh, so we'll proceed with all these assumptions - that they could sign tomorrow or the day afterwards.

K: Well, you'll hear from Peterson.

D: He'll call me?

K: Yes. I'll tell him.

D: You don't want to tell me?

K: I'd like to settle - I want to make sure that Peterson can keep his mouth shut for 24 hours.

D: I will put it this way. Today he will be with me so I could keep him quiet for a while but as for tomorrow it's your responsibility.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority FOLIOST

By CHINARA Date 6/2/67

K: OK, Good, I'll let you know. Now I have two other minor things. Both concerning your Southeast Asian ally. One, I saw a TASS comment on Haig's visit. It said that this proves we want a military solution. Now I don't care what you put out. It was on your domestic radio. I don't care what you put out domestically as long as you understand we send him there in order to get agreement on this point that Brezhnev slipped by us the last day.

D: Oh, about the President.

K: Yes.

D: Of course it wasn't the only one.

K: Now we send him there for similar reasons to Podgorny's visit to Hanoi. We want to get the negotiations. We have to get a common strategy. And to make sure that we all know where everyone is going. But I don't much care - well, within limits I do care what you say on your radio but we shouldn't inflame the situation now. Above all I want your leaders not to be under misapprehension.

D: My reaction to this was on two points. First, as for the last statement I think I already wanted to say to you . . . . . . but my . . . . didn't get it. You should always make a distinction between that statements which is authorized in books and formed by the leader and the TASS just . . . . We should really have one of our men here in Washington speaking from TASS who makes his own. . . . . We have TASS, you have UPI, you have the regular press, but here is one of our regular guys sitting there and making his own comments. And nobody looks from my government about this - whether he is right or not. This is just everyday's business.

K: Well, it was on your domestic radio.

D: Well domestic radio they just get . . . . .

K: I see. Well, now the second thing is again and this doesn't concern you directly except really sometimes Hanoi is beyond my comprehension. Now what they have done, they've invited James Hoffa to Hanoi.

D: You mentioned that to me the other day.

K: No, that was Joseph Kraft.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E01258
By CHYARA Date 05/01/87

D: No, you mentioned another one.

K: But that was yet another Union leader then. But this time it's James Hoffa, a man who was convicted and they imply to him that he was a better negotiator than we. Le Duc Tho talked to his lawyer in Sophia and indicated they would give him some prisoners if he came. You know it's stupid. It's. . . What do you think would happen if I called the press together and said look what they do, they are trying to get us involved with an ex-convict.

D: I understand it quite well.

K: So it isn't even dangerous to us except that it's awfully hard to see how they can be serious if they keep doing idiotic things like this.

D: No, I understand this, but sometimes in their own way of thinking this is very difficult to . . . . otherwise. Do you understand?

K: Yeh, well, it's not a major thing.

D: It's not a big issue.

K: No, it's - we're not going to make a big issue of it anyhow.

D: They have some ideas about some of your countrymen much different than what some other people have outside Hanoi as you say and it is sometimes very difficult to tell them because . . .

K: Actually this particular move if I wanted to be nasty would play into our hands. It doesn't hurt us.

D: I understand perfectly.

K: I mean if we wanted to take advantage of that move we could. . .

D: I don't really think it is connected with the negotiations - I think it's just a situation . . . . and from time to time they give a name who you know. I don't know what they are doing this for. I never heard about it.

K: No, no, they got Le Duc Tho involved in it personally.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority EOL2ST
By CNARA Date Stated

D: Well, sometimes they could do it but I think. . .

K: Well, I mention it in passing. Look, we're not going to bring a new negotiator in now - they're stuck with me. Because I'm afraid if I let them get away with it you'll ask for a new negotiator.

D: I don't want a new negotiator except for you.

K: OK. Thank you.

D: OK, well if it is too difficult for you about Friday I think by 10 o'clock Washington time Saturday.

K: Well, why don't we say ten o'clock and that gets it done.

D: Ok, so then it is settled.

K: Then they just have to keep their mouths shut for two hours which is safer.

D: Yeh, this is no problem. Then I will tell Kunzman that we are prepared to sign it at 10 o'clock Washington time in the morning. If anyone says anything it's up to you.'

K: Good. Exactly.

D: Ok.

K: Bye Anatol. See you next week.

D: And I will give you a call before.

The President's Office
The State of California
Department of Civil and Military Affairs

By: K.H. W. NASA Date: 5/12/04

TELCOM (San Clemente)
Dobrynin/Kissinger

12:30 p.m. - 7/6/72

D: Hello, Henry.

D: Oh, I will.

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Reproducible Data?

6/21/94

NASC. Date 5/13/94

2

K: OK. I'll do my best.

D: Yes, just look about this.

K: OK.

D: You will call then.

K: Yes.

D: Because . . . . . . . he is going to . . . on the apartment, what's his name, . .

D: He'll call me?

K: Yes. I'll tell him.

D: You don't want to tell me?

The President's Office of the Vice President

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.1

By: K.M.L. NASA Date: 5/12/04

D: Oh, about the President.

K: Yes.

K: No, that was Joseph Kraft.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: KHLV NASA Date: 5/13/04

K: But that was yet another Union leader then. But this time it's James Hoffa, a man who was convicted and they imply to him that he was a better negotiator than we. Le Duc Tho talked to his lawyer and in Sophia and indicated they would give him some prisoners if he came. You know it's stupid. It's. . . What do you think would happen if I called the press together and said look what they do, they are trying to get us involved with an ex-convict.

D: It's not a big issue.

D: I understand perfectly.

The following are the original records of the meeting.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.6

By: KMH NASA Date: 5/13/84

5

K: OK. Thank you.

D: Ok, so then it is settled.

D: Yeh, this is no problem. Then I will tell Kunzman that we are prepared to sign it at 10 o'clock Washington time in the morning. If anyone says anything it's up to you.¹

K: Good. Exactly.

D: Ok.

than you are in the sense

Hypothetical name of the open line
in the South Atlantic
Represents real data

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.5

TELCONE (San Clemente)
Sec. Peterson/Kissinger

12:42 p.m. - 7/6/72

P: Hello.

K: Pete, how are you?

P: Fine. Can I bring you up to date on grain so you know what's going on.

K: I think I'm pretty well up to date because I've been talking to Dobrynin who is - on other matters.

P: Well, he wouldn't know about some of this, Henry. Can I take a minute to do it quickly?

K: Yes.

P: On Cuba we've got a group this afternoon working on coming up with an answer to the problem on Cuban ships. Are you aware of that problem?

K: No.

P: The problem is, Henry, that traditionally in a NSDM that was signed in '63 it said that any shipments financed by the government could not stop off in Cuba. You know that whole business.

K: Yeh.

P: Well, obviously under our bilateral deal with the Soviets it's very likely they're going to want to do that. Now what we're trying to come up with is the following. I've told them to try to come up with the slightest departure from current policy possible. We think we've come up with a possibility that it can be said that that directive applies to cargo preference activity and this is not cargo preference and therefore it is a commercial transaction. But I want you to know there is a problem here. We're going to try to get this out to you tonight and you and the President are going to have to address it. It's the problem of ships. Now as to whether we say anything about it, the Russians have not brought it up. My hypothesis is the reason they've not brought it up is that they want to announce the deal first, then include this in the maritime negotiations because you remember on that deal if we've got a third of the ships and they've got a third of the ships it's to our interest to make it possible for that to happen. And if that doesn't happen we don't have the grain deal. My current inclination is not to say

Reproducible Copy

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sect. 3.6

By: KMLW NASA Date: 5/12/04

2

P (cont) anything about it but to save it for the maritime negotiations, but I want your approval on this deal or the whole thing may be up for grabs.

K: I'll have to talk to the President about it. But I have to see the formula.

P: Right. Now on the labor unions we've had a preliminary with Gleason and I'm calling him later this afternoon and I'm asking him to come down and see me tomorrow. He is visiting with George Meany. Tentatively he says there's no problem but I just want to play it extra safe and be sure that he has said that to me in my presence. But we think we now have Gleason aboard.

K: Good.

P: The third issue is the freight-rate differential. I'm having... You remember that problem and how we finance it. I'm having budget estimates made of that now and we think we have found a way that we can absorb this for a year to a year and a half within some administrative guidelines. Now that'll still leave us with the problem of what we do two and three years from now but by then hopefully we can get legislation. I don't think we want to parade this through the Congress now, but you should know that we've got an answer for at least half of the period, we think.

K: All right.

P: Now I need your help on how we orchestrate this whole thing. First on the fact sheets and the questions and answers I am meeting with Agriculture this afternoon at 5. I've given them all the questions and answers and by tomorrow morning you and Ziegler should have on the hot line all of that material.

K: All right. Send it to me. Don't send anything to Ziegler.

P: OK. Now two or three specific questions have come up that I need guidance on. First on the agreement itself the question has been raised - aren't we in a position where we should publish this agreement since we have published the others?

Hqustion Three of the open lines
of the State of California
Publicity Staff

CLASSIFIED
E.O 12938, Sec. 3-5

By: KCLW
NASC. Date: 5/13/04

K: Yeh.

P: I have looked at the agreement. I think it's innocuous. We wouldn't have to publish that little side letter and on new balance I would think it's all right . . .

K: I'm in favor of publishing it.

P: All right. Now secondly, what do we do about orchestrating it here on Saturday morning?

K: Well, here is the situation. I've been talking to Dobrynin. He wants to sign the agreement at 10 o'clock on Saturday, but that has to be secret. I mean just sign it. We make the announcement at 9 o'clock West Coast time. There will be a minimum number of questions and answers and I'll give a little of the political background. And then we want you to brief with an Agriculture guy present.

P: Well, Butz would.

K: Butz isn't in town as I understand it.

P: He can get back, he said.

K: Well, if he can get back we would love to have both of you do it.

P: I think he can.

K: Well, then we would like both of you to brief - say 1 or 1:30.

P: Let me argue with you - I'm for making it as close to 12 as you can because the big play here is for the Sunday newspapers, Henry, and as you may recall. . .

K: Then make it one. The President wants an hour time difference.

P: An hour's time difference. All right. Now in terms of how we orchestrate it back here it seems to me if you want maximum press there is something to be said for doing what Butz has suggested for San Clemente which is to get the farm leaders saying this is the greatest thing that ever happened.

K: That'd be marvelous.

Hegedus, Tish, and the report of
the President of the Republic
and the Republic of Israel

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.L. V NASA Date: 5/12/04

4

P: And I would propose that we invite them to the White House briefing a half hour ahead of time, get them all propped.

K: We don't want them here.

P: I am proposing to you that we have them here and that they are prompted to say that what the President has done here is one of the greatest things that ever happened and get President Nixon into the thing as much as possible.

K: Good.

P: Now the same on Congressional leaders. I like the strategy, Henry, of making this rather bipartisan and we think we could get Pohls (?) You know Pohls?

K: No.

P: He's the big farm guy. And Belcer who's the other one. But two or three farm leaders saying it's fabulous. Then finally we think Saturday morning after we've announced it . . .

K: Why don't you check with the Congressional guys on that.

P: All right. Fine. Then Saturday morning you know a half hour before the announcement I think we could build a helluva lot of points for us Congressionally and politically if we call our Congressman around the country and tell them about the deal.

K: But not before - how much before the announcement?

P: I'd say a half hour or something like that.

K: Yeh, but not more than half hour. Good.

P: Ok, if this is all right with you, this is . . .

K: That's fine. Now would you call Dobrynin and tell him that 10 o'clock signing is OK.

P: Ten o'clock. I'm seeing him for dinner tonight. He invited us over there, I can tell him then. Ten o'clock is in Washington?

K: Yes, but in a quiet - not in a public ceremony.

The New York Times is the oldest newspaper in
the country, having been published
PRESIDENT'S OFFICE

By: K.L.Y. NAVA Date: 5/12/04

5

P: Can you give me any background on why you need an hour, Henry?

K: Because that's what the President wants - he wants two hours.
He wants the story to ride out of San Clemente first on the wires.

P: All right. In other words, you announce it at 9:00 your time which gets in here at 12 and then shouldn't we do it at 1 or we won't make the papers I'm afraid.

K: No, do it at one.

P: So you'll do it at 12 and we'll do it at 1.

K: Right.

P: OK and the signing is at 10 o'clock in the afternoon.

K: But that signing is not to be covered by the press.

P: Right. Well, what we will do then - you will publish the agreement is that it?

K: Right.

P: So what we'll be damn sure you get in the morning is the final agreement.

K: Right. Well you did a great job, Pete.

P: Almost as good as you Henry.

K: Well, now don't get carried away, old man. I want you to know I ran into a girl at a party here the other day who said "Did you know what Peterson did to you right after you left?" I didn't say "Don't tell me, I can guess."

P: You mean on the Mexican thing.

sort of suggested

K: Well, where you thought of suggestions that I was a psychotic.

P: No, I just said you had paid me a great compliment. Remember when you said...

K: I know. OK, Pete.