MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION

PARTICIPANTS: Dang Van Sung, Publisher of *Chinh Luan* daily

Professor Henry Kissinger

John R. Burke, Embassy Officer

DATE : October 29, 1965

This evening Dr. Sung met for an hour with Professor Kissinger.
The general discussion which ensued covered the following subjects:

Present Government. Dr. Sung clearly has no confidence in nor
respect for the military Directorate now controlling the government of
Viet-Nam. He dismisses it as a military junta unrepresentative of
anything save its members. They hold power because they control the
military establishment. In Sung's view, some means must be found to
form a civilian government which will enjoy some broad-base popular
support.

Sung realizes the difficulties in achieving this objective in the
absence of any political parties with significant followings. In their
absence some other vehicles must be used. He dismisses the sects, not
because they are unrepresentative but rather because he appears to feel
that they would furnish a poor base subject as they are to intermecine
warfare. Sung feels that the labor syndicates may offer some promise
as political organisms in lieu of parties. He seemed reticent about
naming names, but he did observe that there seemed to be some good men
working in the labor field who could produce a political organization.
What was needed, in his view, was a rice roots organization.

At this point, Sung was politely pressed for personalities. He
again refrained from naming anyone, but when the name of Ha Thuc Ky,
Revolutionary Dai Viet leader, was raised as an individual who, though
not a labor leader, seemed to be working hard to organize his party
on the local level, Sung readily agreed that this was true and that the
sort of organizing activity in which Ky has been engaged is the type
Sung feels the times demand. He added, however, that despite whatever
good qualities Ky might possess he did not consider him of suitable
stature to be a national leader.

Sung emphasized the importance not only for political organizations
but for the government itself to organize at the local level. The
government he declared has not done anything in this direction to date;
however he did approve of the GVN's recent decision to lump together
under a single control the many specialized cadres now working on the
pacification problem.

**War and Negotiations.** Sung is optimistic about the progress of the war. Now that American aid is being brought to bear in massive quantities he feels that the defeat of the Viet Cong is only a matter of time. When the matter of Hanoi's reluctance to come to the conference table was raised, Sung suggested that the bombing of the north be stepped up. (Sung is Tonkinese.) Heavier pressure may convince the North Vietnamese of the unwisdom of their present policies. Sung seemed somewhat fatalistic when asked to evaluate whether heavier pressure might or might not broaden the conflict and bring the Chinese in: it may or may not happen but it is a risk that must be taken if the North Vietnamese are to be brought to any sort of negotiation.

As to how he would like to see the insurgency resolved, Dr. Sung expressed the opinion that a withdrawal of the insurgents and a return to the Geneva Accords of 1954 would probably be the best possible solution. He is not certain that it is obtainable. Whatever the solution, Sung is gloomy about what happens within South Viet-Nam in view of the fact that the present government, in his views, lacks any popular base or rapport with the people, and there is no immediate prospect that a stronger, more representative government can be established in the near future.

**Political Personalities.** During the conversation, Sung made several passing references to political personalities. He mentioned his "cousin" Phan Huy Quat, criticizing him for having given the military the opportunity to return to power. He also mentioned Phan Khac Suu and Tran van Huong, observing that it was not surprising the "civilian solution" had failed, served as it was by such people of modest talent and no real political following.

POL:JRBurke:ajo