TELCOM

Kissinger/Harlow

August 30, 1973

11:18 a.m.

K: Hello.

K: Yes sir.

K: Mansfield is delight and he says, of course, that he would not recommend him since it is my decision and it is entirely up to me and there would be no hard feelings if I don't do it, but he would be delighted if we approach him.

H: He would be.

K: Yes, and he thinks it is an imaginative idea.

H: He does.

K: And he can guarantee me that he will have excellent relations on the Hill.

H: I talked to Mel about this this morning. Mel was in here when I called. And he likes it. I asked him how much flak he thought you might get from the Republican group on the Hill. Taking a Democrat for that post. And he said there would be some. But he said it would be probably a very strong thing for him to do.

K: Hell, that's the sort of place in which you want a Democrat. Some people here have suggested Ross Adair. I think he's a dope.

H: Well, I would personally take him over Ross by a damn sight.

K: Now, how are we going to handle it?

H: You mean Stan?

K: No, I mean Stan is my first choice.

H: You don't know him. You may not want him.

K: Well, he's going to be the first man I've talked to.

H: But who wants you to talk to Ross?

K: Just State Dept. guys who recommended him.

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K: Don't worry about that.

H: What's Ross doing now?

K: He's Ambassador to Ethiopia.

H: That's right.

K: I find him time consuming and I don't think he and I have the right chemistry.

H: I honestly think that is the case. Well, I think we would enjoy Ross but I don't think he's quite what you want probably. Although it is not a bad idea.

K: Can you find out how who the State Dept. is was who spoke to Kemmet?

H: Well he didn't want to say. I was afraid it was someone from out of here.

K: It could be **SANITIZED**

H: It could have been a departmental type.

K: Well, it could still have been Lehman.

H: Anyhow, now we've covered the base.

K: Do you want to set up a meeting with him for me or...

H: When would you be able to do this?

K: I'll be back Monday and would like to talk to him on Tuesday.

H: All right. We're lining you up with some appointments by the way.

K: I would above all like to see those Senators in addition to Aiken that I haven't talked to.... like Percy, Pierson, Case, Tell.

H: Yes, I'm getting Tom to make these appointments. But I've already got a number of these made, including Hugh Scott.

K: Good. Yes, I must see him.

H: And Froelike is tied down to a time limit. And McGee, do you think... well, we've got several of them already lined.

K: You know, Tom is going to do that to serve himself. I think that Fulbright is right--I shouldn't insist on these appointments.

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H: No, I made that very clear to him. But the thing that you run up against is that it is flattering that you come in.

K: Yeah.

H: So there will be a number of those that you'll just have to do I guess. Now, are you still of a mind to do the New York as a residence? Doughly called me.

K: What does he say?

H: He made a point that I should pass on to you. Now you must understand. I would make it clear to the Committee in presenting my side of the sponsorship of Dr. Kissinger is that the reason I am pleased and proud to sponsor him is because he doesn't share this neo-isolationistic approach toward problems of the world. And that number 2 he does not believe in the unilateral demolition of force in the world. As are viewpoints that are shared by others.

K: And Javits will present me with exactly the opposite.

H: And he said, now Bryce, you must understand that because I will say that. And of course that is not the viewpoint of Sen. Fulbright or Sen. Mansfield. And so he said, I will feel obliged to make that very clear that that is why I'm sponsoring this man.

K: Do we need any sponsors?

H: Well, of course if you had come up from the District you would have no sponsors.

K: What do you think of that?

H: Custom would have it that you had come from the District. Because it is where you last voted.

K: Why don't we do that? I don't think I will need a sponsor.

H: I don't think you will either. Of course Jack is on the Committee and that helps. And it helps to have the spectrum out right and left sponsoring you.

K: But not if it gives Fulbright a chance to ask me then to resolve the conflict between Javits and Buckley.

H: Laughter --- that's just about the way it could happen.

4

H: (contd) What does Aiken call those people? He calls them owls.

K: Yeah.

H: We still have a little time to figure that out.

K: I'll follow your judgment on that, Bryce.
My instinct is to make the minimum wave before confirmation.

H: I went over this with the White House Secretariat here, on what the custom has called for in years past. And the not-unvarying but normal custom that is almost unvarying is that a man is nominated from the state in which he has last had his voting residence.

K: Which would make it the District for me.

H: That would make you the District. But it is not absolutely necessary.
That is what the almost-unvarying thing is about.

K: My instinct is though is not to be cute. It gives a sort of sense of insecurity.

H: I can easily tell Jack that you last voted in the District.

K: And that I would appreciate it very much---whatever he would want to do as a member of the Committee.

H: I mentioned this to Buckley. That we have a custom trouble which would dictate that you would have to come from the District.

K: And it would also solve the Kennedy-Brooke problem.

H: That's correct.

K: My instinct is to go with the District.

H: Well, I somewhat feel the same way.

K: It shouldn't be so close....

H: No. OK, we'll talk later. Now I want to get Stan for Tuesday.

K: Yeah. Just tell them to fit him in. Thank you.

H: OK, bye.

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TELCONE

Mrs. Norman Chandler/Kissinger

2:23 p.m. - 8/30/73

K: Hello.

C: Henry, this is Dorothy Chandler.

K: How nice to hear from you.

C: Thank you for calling me. You know why I called you because I did
send you a letter by messenger on August 23.

K: I haven't received it yet.

C: Well, I sent it on August 23rd, hand delivered to the Western White
House.

K: They're probably staffing the hell out of it right now. I haven't seen it but I think I know what it's about because Mickey Ziffren talked to me yesterday.

C: Then two days after I delivered the letter the President made his
announcement about you. So I thought my letter just got lost in a bundle
of congratulations.

K: That's what must have happened. I haven't seen it yet to tell you the truth.

C: Will they dig it out for you so you'll know.

K: Of course.

C: Then Paul Ziffren called me this morning and said that he had talked to you last night because Paul and Mickey and Ann Douglas were the only people I had talked to about my idea which was in the letter this time to you. So Paul said he didn't think - and I'd also sent a copy of the letter to Paul - he said from the way Henry talked last night I do not think he has seen your letter.

K: That's right.

C: So I said I was going to check and so I did and our delivery service said it did get down to the Western White House on August 23rd.

K: I will dig it out.

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C: So what I said in there because - in essence was that I'd read in the New York Times that you were coming out in October to a conference. Now probably with your added appointments you're not coming out here.

K: I'm not coming out in October. I wasn't ever coming out in October.

C: Well the New York Times had a little piece.

K: That was wrong.

C: I just thought if you were going to be out here - I talked to Mickey and Anne Douglas and to your friends and I thought if you're going to be out here we have to send a telegram to all of our members two days ahead of time they'd all come; it wasn't any long term commitment you'd have to make. So that was what was in my letter.

K: What I would rather do is to arrange it when I know I'm going to come out here. But does it have to be in October?

C: No, no, it was just that I read that. That was the only thing in there. I just happened to read that so I thought he is coming and that's what made me think now's the time to do what we'd all talked to you about I think personally. Maybe it was a year or more ago.

K: I remember that very well. Now I am not coming out in October but I may be coming out - I'll certainly be coming out sometime over the next three or four months and if we can just leave it that about 3 weeks before I know that I'm coming I'll be in touch with you.

C: Would you do that?

K: Certainly.

C: Because we really want you very much and I think you would enjoy it and I thought that we could have it either in our little Mark Taper Theatre or we might even have it here in out new Times Mirror Square which you did not get to see.

K: Let us leave it that I will call you or have someone call your office when I know that I'm coming out.

C: And we'll just arrange it and send out a telegram.

K: That's entirely up to you and I know you're going to get everybody to come.

C: Absolutely. And I want to say that we're fortunate in your appointment. We've all talked about it and Otis told me of your call to him after the dinner you gave for the visiting dignitaries.

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K: I was very, very moved by his toast.

C: And you were very nice to call him afterwards.

K: It was really a very patriotic and big thing to do.

C: Well, it seemed at a very strategic time I would think.

K: It was a difficult thing to do at that moment and I must say I was really very moved by it. I'm going to call Otis before I leave here.

Otis said

C: That's very nice and I told Otis what I'd asked you to do and/if you need me to call him or to encourage him.

K: I can't have the Chandlers ganging up on me because I simply can't resist one of you. If all four of you come after me it isn't fair.

C: We're all after you now. Take care and I will see you when you come back and I do appreciate your call.

K: Thank you. Bye.

C: Bye.

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TELCONE

Prof. Graubard/Kissinger

5:10 p.m. - 8/30/73

K: Hello.

G: Hello, Henry. How are you? Are you harrassed?

K: Beyond endurance.

G: Then tell me are you going to go to Europe at all?

K: Absolutely not.

G: You cannot and you don't wish to.

K: It's inconceiveable right now. I've got to get the department organized.

G: Right. Are you back in Washington yet?

K: No, I'm going back on Monday.

G: You're in San Clemente. I thought you were in Washington.

K: No, no, I'm in San Clemente.

G: Well, I continue to feel that I'd like to do this and I just -

K: It's a good idea but I've got to get my head above water first. To take
over a big department and hold onto my old job and get confirmed and
have the UN on my hands.

G: Tell me, are you at all concerned about the confirmation, Henry?

K: No.

G: No, it really would be - it would create the biggest crisis that we would
have.

K: It's inconceiveable. No one has told me that there could be any problem.

G: Well, as I say, I obviously thought the chances were nil but hope springs eternal. I will come back and be at a dinner for you where you are being honored in some gargantuan way.

K: Let me know when you're back.

G: I will definitely do so. Give my love to your children.

K: I will do that. Bye.

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NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION

NLN FORM 101 (revised 6-85)

TELCONE

Bryce Harlow/Kissinger

3:05 p. m. - 8/31/73

K: Hello.

H: This is the third time I've tried to make a connection with you.

K: Well, we have to get the tape recorder set up.

H: I see. I'm ready to go now; I'm talking for the record.

K: OK. Just in the line of keeping you informed -- I talked to Claiborne Pell in Europe and he says he wants me to know he will not just vote for it, he will work for it and he knows that there are a few trouble areas that are going to be raised like the wiretapping but he said he can help manage it.

H: That's good.

K: I don't believe he can help manage it.

H: It's good news that he would say that he would try.

K: Bryce, could you get Korologos under control before he turns me into his public relations officer and having me see every jerk I have never seen. He scheduled me for an hour and a half with Percy.

H: He doesn't have you for an hour and a half. We need to find someone for the interim but right now we don't have a victim. That is not to have you sit with Chuck Percy for an hour and a half. Tom is trying to hold every meeting to not more than 30 minutes, but

K: Why can't we get Percy for 10:30?

H: They asked for 9:30. If we can't fill the interview time we will try to have some moved.

K: Has Kimmitt accepted?

H: I'm trying to find him. He's at the beach. He left town, didn't return my call. Perhaps he's a little concerned, maybe it bothered him. I left a call where he went and am waiting for him to call me back. I just placed the call 45 minutes ago. He may be deliberately ignoring me which means he is running scared for some reason.

K: Does he think it's a ploy to get confirmation?

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H: No, I really think it's that he thinks he has an appointment with you and just don't realize he has to confirm it back to me, but is planning to show up. He's an old pro. I don't think he would ignore it.

K: It's so easy for him to say he appreciates it but doesn't want to be considered.

H: That's correct. I think he feels he has an appointment with you on Tuesday and will come. In the meantime, I've called him where he is going at the beach. I'll call you as soon as I hear.

K: Good. And I will see you next Tuesday.

TELCONE

Bryce Harlow/Kissinger

3:27 p.m. - 8/31/73

K: Hello, Bryce.

H: You got the machine turned on?

K: It's on now.

H: OK, good because you'll need this to remember it. Mr. Kimmitt will be in your office at 12 on Tuesday.

K: But he called me too, he doesn't want to speak in your presence.

H: He also told me that he would come by his own desire to my office first.

K: To what?

H: To my office first to have me deliver him to you. He insists that I stay while you visit with him.

K: Is that what he said?

H: That's exactly what he said.

K: What a tricky man he is.

H: Which proves that he knows whom to trust in the White House staff area. He's a very perceptive man.

K: I look forward to it.

H: And I told him I would do that if it'd make him feel more comfortable. So that's what we'll do.

K: Do you think it will help if I throw in a German word now and then just so he knows where the lines of authority are.

H: I'll get you some German words for you to use if you can practice the pronunciation. I think you can get it rather quickly.

K: Your accent is going to help me a great deal.

H: My New York accent and my Brooklyn twang will help you out there. I think it's a good sign. He'll be in Kansas City with Mike on Tuesday morning.

K: Oh, he hasn't seen him yet.

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H: He hasn't been able to see him yet.

K: But we know Mike's answer.

H: That's right. Well, I've already told him that Mike's amenable to his talking to you.

K: Yeh, and then when I talk to him I can be frank with him, tell him that this is going to spill some blood over some of our associates and I won't be able to talk to them until after I'm confirmed.

H: Yes.

K: And that I see some problem at our end.

H: That's right. This thing has to remain some tentative. This might add some hair on his chest if he starts to try to do anything. I think that's very necessary to tell him because there could be a brouhaha. In other words, for example, it could be that our friend, Bill Hildenbrand -- Hugh Scott could go through the overhang over there.

K: Oh really.

H: I don't know.

K: I think it's an inspired move myself.

H: But I think probably Hildenbrand respects Kimmitt's moving. He may not want him to get a good position in the Administration, however. And Hugh Scott may take that same view. In which case we'd have to sit down and wrestle with him for a little while.

K: They don't worry me half as much as the President does.

H: He knows that this man is a regular army officer retired. He has been a stalwart hardliner underneath the cooing soft line of Mike Mansfield and conducting a liaison constantly with Scoop Jackson.

K: No, I think it's an absolutely smashing move.

H: For example, he was really actively with us on the ABM when it was very, very dangerous for him to be so.

K: And it's going to be just a helluva move.

H: But anyway, you may not like the guy at all. He may be wrong some ways.

K: I usually have a pretty quick instinct about that.

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H: I'll be interested to see how you react to it. The guy you get you just have got to have confidence in; otherwise it'd just be a tragedy.

K: What does confidence mean?

H: Confidence means you think he is totally straight, totally dependable and will carry your views without discounting them.

K: But I don't have to tell him everything.

H: You have to tell him what you need to tell him whatever that is and expect him very loyally to

K: I need to tell him what I want him to say.

H: And to not worry that he'll say it.

K: Right.

H: And to make sure that he's professionally able to convey.

K: Right.

H: So there. Is it nice out there?

K: Beautiful.

H: You're not coming back with the party tonight are you?

K: No, I'm coming back Monday.

H: All right. I'll see you on Tuesday.

K: Right. Bye.

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