TELCONE

Bernard Kalb/Kissinger

9:30 a.m. - 8/24/73

K: Hello.

BK: Your Excellency, this is Bernie Kalb.

K: I knew I would get to you guys.

BK: I just wanted to take a moment of your time just to extend my personal congratulations and tell you what a pleasure it's going to be to read that part of the book and to wish you really the best of luck in all your efforts to put a lot more substance, more than you have already put, in that very fragile thing we all know as peace.

K: You know I'll do it with great dedication.

BK: We were all watching your news conference last night, parts of it and reading it today. I know you're busy but I did want to take just a moment to

K: You're so nice and Marvin called the other day and, if one can be permitted in these offices to have friendship with newsman, I want you to know that I feel that towards you.

BK: You should relax as much as you can out there because the whole town's waiting for you.

K: Thank you, Bernie. Hope to see you soon.

BK: I hope so. Bye.

K: Bye.

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TELCONE

Henry Brandon/Kissinger

9:33 a.m. - 8/24/73

K: Hello.

B: Henry. You should be very pleased with all the reaction.

K: Yes, it's been quite good.

B: More than quite.

K: It's a little slow getting out here so I haven't seen too much. I haven't seen too many foreign reactions.

B: Foreign reactions will be good. I know of one that is going to be very good.

K: Which is what?

B: The Sunday Times.

K: Oh, really.

B: Yes.

K: You're writing it?

B: Both Childs and I are doing pieces about you.

K: Oh really.

B: Listen, Henry, have you thought about defining the role of Secretary of State and how you envisage it?

K: Yeh, but I feel frankly, Henry, that I should not make any statements until after my Senate confirmation.

B: I don't mean to make it as a statement.

K: I know, but it would have to be coming from me if it has to have any authority.

B: Well, the way you see your role, you know.

K: I'm still - I have some ideas but I'm in the process of

B: All right if you don't want to. I just thought you might want to.

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K: But I think that one of the big problems that I can say is one of moral leadership right now and of giving the country a sense again of national purposes.

B: But this is - you mean you hope to accomplish that?

K: Yes.

B: Well, how do you translate action into moral leadership?

K: I would really frankly, Henry, at this point, I really do have a number of ideas - wait until I'm confirmed.

B: What are your plans? Did you say anything about press conferences? How many you're going to hold or how you're going to handle them?

K: I don't think I've made any formal statement on it but I expect to have them much more frequently than my predecessor. I would expect at least one a month and what I would like to do there is to sit down with a group of senior journalists and see what would make sense. Whether we should do some that are confined to one or two topics or whether all of them should be free-ranging. I have no overwhelming view on that. What do you think, incidentally?

B: You have never had any problems about holding press conferences or handling them. I think it is going to be one of your most powerful tools. It can be.

K: Exactly, so I have no problem about it.

B: You know you just see another Harvard class in front of you and forget about the rest.

K: That's been my attitude. You know I don't think the question of meeting the press is going to be a problem. What's going to be more - my meeting with the press will be as frequent as necessary. Certainly no less than a month. If there is some crisis I'll do it as often as is needed.

B: I think that's a good basic position.

K: But even if there's no particular, spectacular news, I would certainly do at least one a month.

B: You know you could even go as far as two a month because it's going to be a very good thing with your ability to handle the press. It's going to be a very effective tool. You know even your appeals to Congress and so on.

K: You know I have to work out how this relationship with the Congress is going to work and I really meant what I said yesterday, I'm going to make a very serious effort to get them involved at least in the general strategy if not in all the tactics. Until they teach me it can't be done.

B: You mean by consulting with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee?

K: By getting a small group of them maybe - of the leaders of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

B: I think they're just waiting to be brought into consultation. The contrast in itself should create a lot of good will.

K: See, I think one of my major roles will be to get a conceptual basis of American foreign policy that will outlast my term in office and therefore I have to create a commitment on the part of people to this basic approach. I also plan to give a series of major speeches after I've been nominated over the next two months.

B: You mentioned one in London.

K: That I'll have to cancel.

B: You'll have to cancel.

K: Because that will be before my confirmation and I don't think I should give a major speech before my confirmation.

B: You don't expect to be confirmed before the 10th?

K: The Congress doesn't go back before the 5th.

B: I see.

K: I mean they're getting into town on the 5th which is a Wednesday so it's reasonable to assume that they will not start the hearings before the 10th.

B: But don't you already have a conceptual basis of your foreign policy?

K: In my own mind, yeh.

B: I mean if you read a book by Henry Brandon you will find that there is a conceptual policy.

K: Oh yeh. I'm not saying it's got to be worked out. It's got to be institutionalized. I'm giving a speech at the opening of the Pacem in Terris Conference on October 8th.

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B: Which conference is that?

K: That's a big conference that Hutchins is holding.

B: Is it in this country?

K: Yeh, in Washington.

B: My book has just come out in London by the way so the timing was
absolutely perfect.

K: I owed this to you.

B: The first review by Alistair Buchan is extraordinarily good.

K: You really haven't had an intelligent review that I've seen.. in that country.
Whether they were good or bad, they were not perceptive.

B: I'm really looking forward to meeting Alistair.

K: Will you send me a copy?

B: Yes, certainly.

K: When are you leaving?

B: I'm leaving this country on the 3rd, but I'm leaving from Boston.

K: From Boston. I'm getting back on the 3rd. Why don't we talk on the phone before you go. Will you call me?

B: Yes, I'll call you. Very good. Many thanks.

4

TELCONE

Dean Rusk/Kissinger

9:48 a.m. - 8/24/73

K: Hello.

R: Henry.

K: Dean, how are you?

R: Well, good luck to you as you become number 56. I just got back from Mayo's yesterday afternoon and I'm still in convalescence but I was going to call you yesterday afternoon when I got home but I heard you were in San Clemente and I didn't know whether to bother you or not.

K: It's an honor to follow in your footsteps and if I can do as well I'll be very pleased with myself.

R: You've had a lot of preparations for that job and It'll be a lot different than the job you've been on at this point but I'm sure you can make the adjustment without too much trouble.

K: Dean, when do you think you can come to Washington so that I can talk to you. I'd really very much like your advice on what you think the right role is for the Secretary in relation to the Foreign Service and

R: I'll tell you what I might do Henry, it'll be maybe 10 days or two weeks before the doctor will let me wiggle. This wasn't a major operation but I might drop you a letter on a few things that occurred to me along the way.

K: Could you do that?

R: Yeh and then maybe we can talk on the phone and then maybe in about two weeks I'll be able to get out there.

K: If you could drop me a letter and also if you could think of some people in the Foreign Service that have impressed you.

R: Right. By the way there's one person, the No. 2 secretary in the Secretary's office, Mrs. Jane Roth, she's been in that job since John Foster Dulles was there - you undoubtedly will want your own secretary with you as the No. 1 anyhow, but Mrs. Roth knows the Department from stem to stern but she's had a lot of beautiful experiences in the needs of the Secretary and if you have three secretaries up there you just might want to make sure that she's one of them.

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K: Right.

R: She's quite an institution around the Department. She's young and attractive and gets along very well.

K: Right.

R: Well, I will be giving it some thought and don't hesitate to pick up the phone and give me a ring.

K: I'm really most anxious - this is not just a courtesy call, Dean, I really would like your views and your assistance.

R: I'll be glad to give it some thought. This little club of Secretaries of State and former Secretaries of State is pretty small but it tends to be pretty loyal to each other and if I can be of any help to you I'll be glad to do it.

K: Thank you, Dean, and I'll be in close touch with you.

R: It's my impression there'll be no problem with regard to your confirmation.

K: I haven't detected any yet.

R: I haven't myself and if I get anything by grapevine volunteered to me I won't hesitate to give you a ring and tell you to watch out for this or that.

K: Right and you should, in general, feel Dean that you can do that at any time.

R: OK, much obliged, my friend and good luck to you/

K: Thank you. Thank you.

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TELCONE

Amb. Kaul/Kissinger

10:00 a.m. - 8/24/73

K: Hello.

AK: Good morning, Dr. Kissinger.

K: How are you?

AK: Very well. My heartiest congratulations.

K: Thank you.

AK: I just called to inform you that since our last conversation I received a message that they are making some progress and I was wondering whether I could tell you on the telephone the lines that this progress is being made or whether I should ask my number 2 to mention it to Saunders and he can convey it.

K: I think you can do it on the phone because most people won't know exactly what you're talking about.

AK: I agree. So the version (?) is as follows: We are suggesting to the other side that they should . . . . . . . . all the nationals to which they were . . . . . . . and not to take anyone from. . . . . . . ever. This is No. 1. Did I make myself clear?

K: Yes, I understand it very well. I have something to say to you in that connection. You finish and then I will talk to you.

are concerned

AK: No. 2 - Insofar as the Pakistani nationals/in Bangladesh, Pakistan agrees to repatriate the Bangladesh who have opted for repatriation in Pakistan and Pakistan further agrees to enter into discussions with Bangladesh to arrange for the repatriation of the remaining Pakistani nationals who have opted to Pakistan and these discussions will be held on the basis of sovereign equality. There would be two stages - the Bangladesh to go now and the numbers that would take place after the discussions. That would be that all POWs and civilian except the 195 would be repatriated to Pakistan. So far as the 195 are concerned Bangladesh agrees to consider that no trial should take place during the entire period of the repatriation and that prisoners of the 195 shall remain in India. Then the 5th point is that after the complete implementation of the repatriation of the various categories, the three countries will discuss the matter of the 190 POWs but be understood that Bangladesh would participate only on the basis of sovereign equality. And sixthly, the principle of would be observed in the process of the repatriation of the three categories. First, Pakistan would make the

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logistic arrangements for the persons in the categories who are to go
to Bangladesh. Bangladesh would make the logistic arrangements
for those who opted for Pakistan, are to go back there and India would
make the logistic arrangements for the POWs and civilian detainees.
The progress in this is that just as Bangladesh has agreed to ______ freeze
the question of recognition in the ______ Declaration, it will
now also agree to freeze the question trials until this whole thing is
resolved and discussions take place. The second point is that the
repatriation of Pakistani nationals in Bangladesh will take place in
two stages.

K: I understand. Now if you could type some of this on one sheet of paper or two sheets and give it to Saunders to transmit to me it would help me. Unsigned - no letterhead. Just to make sure that I've understood it correctly.

AK: I will do this - paraphrasing it.

K: Yes, paraphrase it and let me tell you after our conversation I was going to call you today, we got in touch directly with the leader of the other country concerned and put this proposition. Now I'm not supposed to tell you this but I think it may help our common interest. I think there will be some receptivity to separating the issue of the 203 from the issue of the 195 and if there is some flexibility on your side with respect to the return of the nationals from Bangladesh as to numbers and I think from what you tell me some of that has already been achieved. So I have the impression that there is some good will now also on Pakistan's side and they certainly know of our interest in promoting it.

AK: Well, let's keep our fingers crossed and hope that something

K: But I have the distinct impression that what I thought might be an
insuperable stumbling block namely, the equivalence between the 195
and the 203 has been removed because of our intervention.

AK: Thank you very much.

K: But you should make no reference to my telling you this. This was given to us for our personal information, but since it doesn't do us any good I thought it might help if I let you know.

AK: Thank you very much. Anything else you'd like me to convey?

K: Well, you may convey to the Prime Minister and to the Foreign Minister that the principles which I've outlined to you about improving relations between our two countries will, after my confirmation, be very energetically implemented.

3

AK: Thank you very much.

K: And I hope to have a talk with your Foreign Minister when he comes to the UN.

AK: I will certainly be glad to convey this to him. Will you be going to New York?

K: I'll be going to New York for a few days but given the necessities of my new job, I'll probably spend not as much time as Rogers would have. But maybe your Foreign Minister would be willing to come to Washington if we can't work something out in New York. But one place or another we will meet.

asked

AK: All right. Well, I wish you all the best of luck. I was/in Minneapolis yesterday about your appointment, I took the liberty of saying that. . .

K: It is pleasant intervention in our domestic affairs.

AK: That kind of intervention is welcome.

K: It is welcome. Thank you.

AK: Thank you. Good-bye.

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TelCon-10:48-8/24/73

Mr. Kissinger/
Hugh Sidey

(apparently beginning of conversation not on tape)

K: Right

(this quote piece?)

S: Through this piece that whole piece, you know. I don't see a problem in it but you stop me. It looks great to me. And here it goes. I have been heart(?) by the response of my nomination, by telephone calls from people who use to be critics like Averill Harriman, McGeorge Bundy and John McCloy. It makes me hope we can reunite this country. There are elements in the truly constructive period ahead. If we don't tear ourselves to pieces domestically. We can build something that can last beyond this Administration. It must be built on previous Administrations too. We have brought some major changes but some of them were opened only to us and not others. But they wanted what we wanted. In many ways it is a great paradox. It gives me faith in the history of this country. Back there we would have said that the least likely man elected to do all these things would be Richard Nixon but he has done them. What is important is that he did. I realize the can't put Watergate behind us. We must deal with it. But I hope now that we can treat it as a cancer that has been exiled and the wound will take a long time to heal. If we can get the country thinking about the future - that it has a future - then we can leave something behind. That is the positive thing I see. Somehow I think it will happen. We have a lot to do. We want to revitalize our relationships with our friends in Europe and Japan. I will make a major effort in that area. The Middle East is probably the most dangerous spot in the world. I still hope we can find a basis for negotiations between the parties. I intend(?) to make a major effort to reinvigorate Latin American policy. We will work to maintain a settlement in Indochina within the limits now prescribed by Congress. It is the first time since the war that we have had a world that is at peace. We will be judged by whether or not we canmake this a natural state of things. I plan to see what I can do to bring the Senate Foreign Relations Committee into the conceptual area of foreign policy so that they do not have to make ad hoc decisions. I have had lunch with Chairman Fulbright three weeks ago and he said then he would welcome this development. If I am confirmed I hope to get a few dedicated men in the State Department key areas and develop a sense of excitement that will last. John Kennedy was able to do that. He made public service an adventure. You go back now and read some of the things he said and they sound almost now. But that is not the point. When I was a Professor teaching history I felt it really didn't matter if my students forgot the details. What was important was that they got a sense of what really mattered. Then they could teach themselves.

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- 2 -

The perception of ourselves as a nation must change now. We are no longer self-sufficient. One half of our energy will soon be coming from abroad. All of our exports soon will pay only for the raw materials we must get for it. Our agricultural products now have to be thoughtfully allocated. Take the wheal deal for which we have been criticized. Our intelligence is faulty that is true. But there was not a thought by anyone that we would not have enough wheat. Our whole orientation by Congress, by Farm experts, by businessmen have been to sell it when we could. We must rethink where we are. We face problems now that no past generations have faced. They are common problems of humanity. They are food, energy, and environmental, communications. Up until Western imperialism there was no world history. It was only regions. When we talk about the Roman Empire we talk about people who didn't know the Chinese existed. Most great cultures developed independently. Now we are in close contact each day. Yet it is a fact of our existence that we have never really assimilated. Yes we must rethink where we are. End.

K: No, no that is fine. Only one really minor change. At the beginning - I don't think McCloy would necessarily like being called a Critic. If you could say some people who haven't agreed with everything that was done.

S: Let's change the term there. Let's see here - People who called for people who use to disagree.

K: Who disagreed with - who occasionally have disagreed.

S: Yes. OK.

K: I think that would help.

S: OK.

K: Now the only other thing that will give me some local practical trouble is this John Kennedy reference.

S: Oh, you think so. I kind of like that.

K: No, I kind of like it too.

S: Well, here let's ah

K: Can you read that to me again.

TELCONE

Hugh Sidey/Kissinger

11:25 a.m. - 8/24/73

K: Hello.

S: Yes, Henry.

K: Hugh, I have thought about that quote.

S: Which one?

K: That one part about Kennedy. It's just going to make it so much harder for me to do my job here.

S: Can we change that and use some other name?

K: It's so sensitive right now. You see what I mean?

S: Just say "the great Presidents have. . ." Is that OK?

K: Right. Good.

S: Well, that's fine. I liked the Kennedy thing and I

K: I like it and I deeply believe it. I think I have your two problems here between you and me.

S: OK. We'll take care of that.

K: Right.

S: Good, Henry. Righto, bye-bye.

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TelCon-11:30-8/24/73

Mr. Kissinger/
George Ball

K: George.

B: Henry, after I agitate for something a very long time I am necessarily gratified.

K: Well thank you George. I called you to see whether I could get you to meet with me in Washington when I get back, the first or second week after Labor Day.

B: Sure I will be glad to it.

K: And I very much if in the mean time you could give some thoughts to what you would do in the State Department to streamline it and - if you could think of the people that impressed you most, whatever rank they are.

B: Well I would be glad to do it of course.

K: Because you must have formed some opinions.

B: I formed quite a few. Yes, I would be very happy to give you whatever advice I may have on people and on the subject _________ and also how you setyourself up to get hold of administrative problems(?)'

K: Well that is what I really need most help on.

B: Well fine Henry, I will give it some thought and try to put something down and

K: I am going to aim for the first week when I come back. Say the week of the 3rd if that is agreeable to you.

B: The week of the 3rd, I will be in Europe that week.

K: OK, then let's aim for early the week after.

B: Yes, that will be fine. That will be fine. I will be back. I may have to be in Italy on Monday that following week but I certainly will be back on Tuesday.

K: OK, shall we aim for Wednesday or Thursday.

B: Tuesday, I could do it. Wednesday or Thursday I have got a board meeting outside of

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TELCONE

Sec. Weinberger/Kissinger

11:56 a.m. - 8/24/73

K: Hello.

W: Henry, how are you?

K: OK.

W: Congratulations, sir. I turned out a most enthusiastic letter. I think it's just great.

K: Aren't you nice. You called yesterday and I never got a chance to call you back.

W: I wanted to congratulate you and I'm delighted to get you this time. I gathered from watching the evening news that you're a little busy, but that was a great closing remark.

K: Aren't you nice.

W: Excellente. Henry, I'm leaving tonight for this Russian-Polish thing and apparently there is a formal request in to have a chat with Brezhnev if he should be there. Is there anything at all that you would like me to say or the President would like me to say beyond the normal niceties.

K: No, I think we're in pretty good shape.

W: And in Poland I got your memo and will display the right degree of chilliness when Gerrick's name comes up or anything. I saw the Polish Ambassador at an Embassy thing yesterday and he said he didn't know whether Gerrick would still be on vacation or not. They were trying to arrange the meeting and so on, so if he wants to, I'll just meet with him but I won't discuss anything about an invitation and if he raises it I can tell him that they can pretty much control that themselves or something cryptic like that.

K: Right.

W: All right, sir. I certainly look forward to congratulating you.

K: Thank you and I look forward to working with you.

W: It'll be a lot of fun. I really look forward to it. I'll be back in two weeks and give you a full report on what happens.

K: Terrific. Bye.

TELCORN ROBERT MCNAMARA --HENRY A. KISSINGER

August 24, 1973 12:00

K: Hello.

MCN: Hi Henry.

K: Bod, I wanted to call to tell you that even though I didn't even fully take your advice I'll try to implement as much as I can.

MCN: Henry ~~regretting~~ Congratulations as a citizen I am delighted. As your friend I am worried.

K: Well, you would have done the same thing.

MCN: Well I am just delighted Henry, and I am awfully pleased you did it. Marge and I were out on a camping trip and just got back last night and read it in a newspaper.

K: I see. Well when the, it actually happened there was no basis for refusing.

McN: Sure.

K: Or making conditions.

McN: Well I can understand it. Needless to say if there is anything at all that I can do, you just call.

K: Well, your friendship has ~~reached~~ really been the single strongest support in Washington.

McN: Well it is not by any means the only one you have Henry.

K: No, but you have really meant a lot to me.

McN: Where are you now out in California?

K: I am in California.

McN: And how long will you be there?

K: Until Labor Day.

McN: After you get back, if you have time, give me a call. I would love to see you, Henry.

K: Boll, what I would appreciate, if you could give me, you must have from your observations in Washington formed some ideas of what could be done with the State Department. And what I would like to do is to bring about there what you brought about in the Defense Department, you know a more conceptualized structure.

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["DECLASSIFIED\nAuthority E.0.12958", "By AB NARA Dae 6/9/07", "HAK - McNamara", "-2-", "McN; Yeah.", "K: And if you could give some thought to it and also the names of any x State Department people that have impressed you over the years.", "McN: Yes. I am not sure I can help you much on those, most of the people I have known have gone on the Tommy Thompson's and people like that, but anyhow let me think about it.", "K: Right. But on the first part and x also I have some ideas, I would love to see you during the first week and tell you what my ideas are, which of course, I can't implement until I am confirmed.", "McN: Yeah, well look you give me a call when you get back during that first week, Henry and I will come out anytime. You just set the time and I will adjust my schedule to it.", "K: Terrific, Bob.", "McN: And I will think about it in the meantime.", "K: Terrific and love to Marge.", "McN: I x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x

TELCON -- HENRY A. KISSINGER MAX ASIOLI

August 24, 1973 12:23

K: Max.

A: Henry.

K: How are you?

A: How are you? I called and spoke to Nancy last night and she told me that I could call very easily you in San Clemente.

K: Absolutely.

glorified

A: And I wanted to call it was a very simple thing. My highest/congratulations

K: Thank you. [Laughing]

A: With my fingers and my toes crossed.

K: Yeah, we need it.

A: That comes from the old friend.

K: No, it is ah...but I had no choice.

A: I understand.

K: So it was not one of the things where you really have a choice.

A: I know.

K: But Max, I haven't been in New York since my birthday dinner. And I have not forgotten that I would like to see you the next time I come.

A: I think should hope so. I told that to Nancy and I also asked Nancy something else. I was very alarmed last night when I heard that your preferences to the bureaucrats to the State Department

K: That what?

A: To advise to see a lot of their wives.

K: [Laughing]

A: After all I thought that they couldn't do otherwise.

K: Well, Max I hope to see you very soon.

A: Me too!

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HAK Asioli

-2-

K: And many thinks for calling.

A: Yes, I want very much to see you and I have so many things to tell you and talk about with you. But it is better not to say anything. Simply that I am the old friend that you have known during the years of the war.

K: I have had no doubt about that at any time.

A: Okay Henry Hope to see you soon.

K: Good bye.

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TELCONE HENRY A. KISSINGER J.K. GALBRAITH

August 24, 1973 12:27 p.m.

K: Hello.

G: Henry.

K: Ken, How are you?

G: I was just calling up to say that I think it is marvelous new news.

K: Aren't you nice.

G: I think the ideal arrangement would be to let me take over your old job and
you can have you know three or four...

K: I tell you we would have fun.

G: The ideal arrangement would be to have me or Bob take over your
old job and you just enjoy yourself, like Bill Rogers.

K: [Laughing] I would like to give it to you, Bob would be a little bit
problematical.

G: [Laughing]

K: When are you going to be in Washington next?

G: I am not, that is really why I was calling. Kitty and I are going out to
Australia for the three weekx weeks and then see things there for you.
You know that Labor Government.

K: Are you coming through Los Angeles?

G: No, we are not. Our children are up in San Francisco and we are stopping
off to see them just for a day. Unhappily.

K: Oh that is a pitty. You wouldn't want to come down here?

G: I would love to Henry, but I just can't, I am speaking at Hadasa the night
before and then catching the plane and we are bex meeting our kids for lunch.

K: Yeah.

G: I was wondering if there is going to be no problem with Senate Committee
and you know far more about that than I do anyway, but If I drop a per-
sonal note to Frank Church and a few others.

K: I would greatly welcome that.

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HAK K. Galbraith

-2-

G: Saying that I, indicating my own personal reaction. I know it is, well *tex* the atmosphere will be good anyway. They will tease you but they won't do anything *tex* else.

K: Yes, well I think it is important that not just that there is a confirmation, which I think is clear. But that it is done in a spriit of conciliation.

G: Well I will drop a note a personal note to Frank Church and also to Bill Fulbright.

K: Fulbright, would be perhaps the most important/

G: Yes, I will do in just the *back* terms of expressing my own personal satisfaction.

K: Good.

G: And ah.

K: But Ken when can I see you? I am really most anxious to see you.

G: Can I come in and see you as soon as I get back from Australia.

K: But will you make sure to do that.

G: I would love to.

K: Because I'd to talk to you about personnel and how to shake up the department

G: I would like to drop in with Dean Rusk, maybe the two of us could come together

K: If he agrees to that I would be delighted.

G: Laughing

K: Laughing I know I am kidding.

G: I think it is wonderful

K: Let's spend an afternoon or a long lunch.

G: And I'll give you a call if I may when I get back.

K: Will you do it, I won't take the initiative, I'll wait for you to call me.

G: I will call as soon as I get back in any case.

HAK--K. Galbraith

K; Wonderful.

G; Well all the best and the best of good luck. And you know I can't think of
anything that solves so many problems as this does.

K: Well Ken you have been a great friend and I deeply ...

G: It does my vanity good to have friends in high places, you have always
known that.

K: I know that was your principle reason.

G: Yeah. [Kissinger laughs]

K:: See you soon.

G: All the best.

K: Bye

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.12958
By Ab

NARA Date 6/9/69

TELCON

Haig/Kissinger

August 26, 1973

2:25 p.m.

K: Hello.

H: Hello, Henry.

K: Did you see the statement that Rogers put out about the wiretaps?

H: What did he say?

K: That had would have disapproved if he had known. But, I am sure he knew about the Sullivan one.

H: Yeah. Isn't that something? Well that's all right.

K: I think the reaction is so overwhelming anyway.

H: Yeah, Henry. I don't think it is a great concern. He is a skunk.

K: He could have waited until he came back from Canada. Now, two other things. Sisco---does he want me to put him in the Porter job?

H: Well, I told him you were thinking about that. He asked how the reaction was to you. I said it was the best think that we had done. He said "I'm worried about the Arabs."

K: Hell, I had a warm letter from Hussein.

H: I said Henry is more aware than we are. I said Henry's been thinking of Sisco for the number 3 slot. He said Sisco is a whole---that he will to whatever we want.

K: Don't you think Sullivan would be better?

H: Knowing what I do about Sullivan and his state of mind now---and he was anxious to get away from Washington. Either Sullivan or Sisco are young.

K: Well you give some thought to who would be better.

H: Well, he suggested Casey. But I had some doubts as to whether or not Casey could get through unscathed. And, he had said this is probably a good opportunity.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E 0.12958
By NARA Date 6/9/09

2

K: Look, I think we've licked Watergate.

H: So do I. I showed him a poll yesterday that said he was way up. So, he is riding high. And now he is anxious to give another press conference. Maybe after Labor Day weekend.

K: You mean the week of Labor Day. Yeah, good.

H: No one knows that. But I think that is the right time. They

K: And I wouldn't take Watergate questions. I think that may be so afraid of Watergate now that they may not ask him any.

H: Yeah. So I think we are in good shape.

K: If you handle the Casey think I will handle the Sisco thing. I think we have got Eliot and Pickering in hand. They are drooling to get me over there.

H: They are both good men.

K: I am thinking of the idea of combing Inspector General and head of the Foreign Service. And I was thinking of Ted Eliot.

H: You couldn't get a better guy. Either one of those men are part of the younger, brighter element.

K: Then if I put Sullivan or Sisco into the #3 slot and put Brown in.....

H: Did they give you a reading on Brown?

K: Yes, as Under Secretary or ......... If I put him in and Eliot as head of foreign service and Inspector General and I think I would like to move him to the seventh floor. I don't know if Habib has the strength to carry out what I want.

H: I don't know. I don't think he can do it.

K: I could give him head of Foreign Service but Eliot would be better. I was thinking of Eliot as Assistant Secretary for Africa.

H: You want to be sure, Henry, to have the foreign service with someone who can make them think that they have the experts coming back in. And get control. And Eliot can build the best bridge I know.

K: Then he should take the Foreign Service job.

H: And he knows you're good.

By: NARA Date: 6/9/69
DECLASSIFIED
Authority: E.O. 12958

3

K: I think that is what I want to do. Don't you think he'll do me more good there than as Assistant Secretary for Africa?

H: Yes.

K: And it would be a real signal to the Foreign Service to put in a young guy like this.

H: Yes, you know you will go through a great deal.

K: Yes, I know. As I said, thought, I want to change the Department completely. I want an end to this playing safe.

H: Well, you're just what they need over there.

K: Well it is really fantastic to me what the reaction has been around the world.

H: Yes, I know.

K: You know such people as Ken Galbriath...... we will get a much broader base now.

H: You're really going to be in the public eye all the time now.

K: Yes, but if I can stay in this thing for a year, we will have saved the country from the Watergate mess.

H: Yes. I think it is the best think he has done in two years.

K: And Rogers----- I want to give him a dinner within the next two weeks.

H: I couldn't imagine him coming out with that thing.

K: From Canada. Unannounced.

H: I saw that in the Los Angeles Times but it was way back.

K: Ø It is on the front of the Washington papers. On the front page.

H: Henry, it is the only thing on you that they have. You can't be rattled by it.

K: No, I'm not rattled, but I am annoyed. I'm going to Washington tonight. I'll be meeting with Mansfield there.

H: Well, I am confident this will roll through.

K: Yeah, I think so.

H: OK, bye.

K: Bye.

A4

TELCONE

Rita Hauser/Kissinger

9:55 a.m. - 8/26/73

K: Hello.

H: Henry.

K: How are you, Rita?

H: How are you? I couldn't resist calling you to say hooray so I wrote
you a note.

K: Aren't you nice.

H: I think that's absolutely smashing. For you, for the President, and
for the country.

K: You're terrific. I appreciate it.

H: And I just think go sail in, don't be afraid of the Senate and give 'em
hell and do a great job.

K: No, I'll be sure I can manage the Senate.

H: I think they're going to be nasty on the wiretapping.

K: Yeh, I guess so and I don't know what I can say without getting into
trouble with the President.

H: Henry, what I always tell all my clients when they're in trouble - tell
the truth. No, I'm not kidding you - tell the truth in the best light
you can put on it but don't get yourself trapped in telling something
that isn't so.

K: Yeh, that's clear.

H: Invariably that will come out in one stage or another and then you'll
have real problems.

K: Right. Good, Rita, I hope to see you soon.

H: Yes, please I'm back in the city here and I'm working and between
everybody's problems - the richest client in New York died yesterday
in Monaco and I have to get him cremated over the telephone.

K: (Laughts) OK.

H: But stay well, Henry, and I'm truly delighted for you.

K: You're a great friend and I'll talk to you soon. Bye, Rita.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E0.12958
By NARA Date 6/9/69

TELCOM

Danny Kaye/HAK

August 26, 1973/9:59 a.m.

K: Hello.

DK: Your excellency.

K: Thank God, now I'll get a little respect from you Danny.

DK: Sure, because I'm an excellency too. I don't know whether to congratulate you or commensurate with you.

K: When did you get back.

DK: I got back a couple of days ago and saw the announcement and thought well Jes, I'd better call right away and see what's going on and I'm delighted. Are you happy about it Henry?

K: I think its going to be very interesting.

DK: I'm sure it will be. I called you yesterday and they said you....

K: Yeah, I was in Mexico yesterday.

DK: What nights are you free. Would you like to come and have dinner?

K: That would be nice.

DK: Lovely, when do you want to come.

K: Thursday for example.

DK: Next thursday. OK we'll make a date. Wednesday is Sylvia's birthday but we're going to have people here. So we'll make it Thursday.

K: Would you prefer Wednesday.

DK: No, no there is going to be a big mob here Wednesday, I don't know whether you want to come to a party like that.

DECLASSIFIED
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By NARA Date 6/9/09

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.12958
By AB NARA Date 6/7/67

K: Well, I'll tell you what I'll do, if I'm in town I'll drop in just to say hello.

DK: If you want to come Wednesday Sylvai would love it.

K: What time.

DK: Then we'll have one of those 6 or 8 people dinners on Thursday which will be quiet.

K: That would be good.

DK: Yeah.

K: That would be lovely.

DK: Alright my friend.

K: Look forward to seeing you. With your linguistic ability you know you're going to be much used.

DK: Henry, I once told you before. If the government wants me to go on any State Department missions I will go into shock.

K: Particularly that French speech you gave last time I was out here.

DK: I'll tell you what. You work up some kind of deals for us to go to China or for me to go to China.

K: That's settled.

DK: On some mission or other and I'll be delighted and happy to go but first of all...oh, I don't know if I told you or not I saw David in London and we had dinner together. We talked about you briefly.

K: Yes. He told me.

DK: I'm looking forward to seeing you. It's been too long.

K: It'll be terrific. I'll do my best to drop in Wednesday for the party.

DK: Why don't I call you on Wednesday and check with you anhow.

K: Can you do it in the morning.

DK: Yes. Good. Bye.

K: Bye.

TELCORN

Kay Graham/HAK

August 26, 1973/11:23 a.m.

K: Kay

G: Henry, good morning.

K: How are you.

G: I'm fine. How was Mexico?

K: It was wild. I was there for just one evening and little time at the
Archaeological Museum.

G: Oh, isn't that marvelous.

K: It is spectacular.

G: I think its the most beautiful museum in the world.

K: To me its the most exciting.

G: Yeah, I thought it was fantastic. I was there a couple of years ago.
The only thing about the Mexicans, they want to possess you. They
think you'll sell out for a couple of meals. [Laughter] It's just
terrible, they're always offering to send ~~gifts~~ jets for me so
if I'll go with some of them.

K: That is true.

G: And I want to tell you the newspapers are so close to the government.
Henry, you'd really like it.

K: Really? Well, we'll get you into that frame of mind.

G: [Laughter] I know you're working on it and we appreciate it.

K: Oh, absolutely.

G: Wholehearted, Henry.

K: Well we've tried blackmail now we're trying charm. [Laughter]

G: Well, it works better, I'll tell you that.

K: How long are you going to be out here?

G: Planning to leave Tuesday morning.

K: Because I have to go back to Washington to meet with Mansfield and Fulbright tomorrow and I'll be back Monday night.

G: Well, do you want to do anything? No, Henry you mustn't.

K: No I would love to see you. Tuesday night I could do it, but...

G: I'll stay over if you want, because it's a little flexible. I'm pushing Martha's Vineyard Tuesday and it's quite easy to push it...

K: Well, let's aim for Tuesday night.

G: Alright. Now let me propose something to you unless you want to propose something to me.

K: What would you like to do?

G: I have an entourage, that's two sons and wives and a neice. And so what I think will be amusing, it you'd like it, and it would be the easiest for you is if I could push Mary into doing dinner. She's very good at it. And you could bring your children and we could just all do that. Would that amuse you?

K: Oh that would be fun, yeah.

G: Or would you like starlets?

K: If we could do it then somewhat earlier.

G: Would could do anytime you want, anything you want, Henry. Or nothing if..

K: No I'd love to see you, I really genuinely would like to see you.

G: Well, suppose we did that at Mary's house which is a weird, I mean the secret service would probably surround the place, it's on a weird little hill near the beach.

K: Okay.

G: Don't reporting for Newsweek for the summer.

K: Okay. I'm just wondering how we should arrange it.

G: May I propose something? What are you doing tonight? I'll tell you

DECLASSIFIED
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By: A6 NARA Date 6/9/69

-3-

proposition.

K: Tonight? See I have to leave for Washington late this afternoon.

G: Oh you have to leave. I was going to say we're having a beach picnic with Steve Roberts who's with Time. You know the correspondent here who's very nice.

K: I'd love... I had planned originally to propose to you either tonight or tomorrow night. If there's anything I don't need it's a six-hour trip to Washington.

G: Oh poor Henry. You know Lindy Boggs is Steve Robert's mother in-law. All of us are going to have a beach.

K: Is Lindy Boggs out here too?

G: Yes. She's with them and I'm with mine.

K: Well, I'm crazy about her. Well I can't do it. I have to leave about 4:30.

G: Oh Henry, how miserable. What do you do with an event like with your children. Can you take them with you?

K: I took them to Mexico with me. But I leave them here, there's a girl who's going to take care of them.

G: Do they have a good enough time.

K: Oh yeah.

G: Well now Henry listen...

K: Let's make it Tuesday night.

G: Are you sure you want it?

K: That's why I'm calling you.

G: Okay. Because it sounds as if you're not having much of a vacation. And what with the appointment and everything else it sounds miserable.

K: Well, it's also sort of exciting.

G: Henry, you're so nice to say that. I really think it's true.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E0.12958
By AB NARA Date 5/9/69

K: It's a terrific opportunity. We really need in this country to get a sense of looking ahead, so I really don't at all find it uninteresting.

G: I hope so. God, Henry it's exciting. We all see it because we've lived so closely with it. GD it's exciting to be Secretary of State, in a funny way even though obviously you've been more than Secretary of State in a way.

K: Yeah, but in a sort of devious way.

G: Yes. And I think to be the in the Cabinet is one helluva thrill.

K: Yeah, I admit it.

G: And anybody who just doesn't say that is nuts.

K: I admit it Kay.

G: Why shouldn't you. Of course it's a thrill.

K: Well should I call you on Tuesday morning then?

G: Whatever you like, Henry.

K: Well let's aim for Tuesday night, if you want to, at Mary's or anyother place you.

G: Don't you think it's nice to do it out of sight of the public.

K: I think that would be fine.

G: Why, you can't afford to be seen with me?

K: No, Henry. I don't like to be looked at. Unless you do we can, I guess we can find one with a private room. But even that, I think somebody sees you and then they report it. I think it's a bore. And I think that Mary and Julie probably, Billy's girl who is awfully sweet.

K: And if I can bring my children it will be lots of fun.

G: Well I think it's so much nicer in summer to do things together.

K: That's right.

G: So just bring the children. What time would you like? Just name the hour.

DECLASSIFIED
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-5-

K: Can we settle it on Tuesday morning?

G: Certainly. And I'll leave Wednesday morning.

K: That would be terrific. The only other possibility is that we meet about half way. Say about Newport.

G: Well, we can do that. Would you like to do that.

K: Well, can we leave it open until Tuesday morning? And let me ask my children. Or you could come down here and see what the Western White House is and then we could go to Newport and eat there.

G: That would be fun too.

K: Because I think the President is leaving on Tuesday afternoon. And I'm going to stay. I don't think we want to disturb everyone's equilibrium by showing you.

G:

G: No we don't want to do that. So Henry let's just do anything that suits you.

K: Good. So we will definitely, maybe your family would like to
like to see the western White House.

G: Of course they'd be thrilled.

K: Well look, let's do this. If the President leaves on Tuesday, I suggest you come down here.

G: Well that would be great fun.

K: And you could come hxx here, spend the afternoon at the beach, look at the western White House and have dinner in Newport, which is halfway back.

G: That would be great fun.

K: Well let's aim for that, Kay.

G: Let's leave it open. If he doesn't leave we'll aim for either Newport or we'll aim for Marry and Donna's.

K: And if he does leave you'll come all the way down here. It's only about an hour. I'll let you know by 10:00 am on Tuesday. See you Tuesday.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E0.12958
By NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCOM

August 27, 1973/9:32 a.m.

B. Givertzman/HAK

K: Hello.

G: Hi.

K: How are you Bert?

G: OK. I wanted to add my personal congratulations.

K: I appreciate it.

G: I'm sure it will be a good time for everybody and I take you at your word at your press conference on this sort of open door policy.

K: Absolutely. What I want to do after I am confirmed. I know you fellows resent it but if I could talk to a group of the people that I've liked and respected on an informal basis of what they think would make sense in an information policy. Do you think I could get some of you

G: Absolutely. There would be no problem. I mean there is nothing.

K: I know you are not in the business of advising government officials

G: No. I understand but we do it all the time

K: But if I could get say 10 of you together for an informal session tell me what your grievances are. I'll tell you what my... you know what my approach is and then lets see whether we can work something out. No. I'll tell you we will work it out.

G: Sure.

K: As far as I am concerned I'll be as accessible one place as the other

G: Yes. I always thought it was ironic that here you were as busy as hell at the White House and it was always easier to speak with you at least speaking personally, than it was with high officials at the State Department. Not all some.

K: That won't change.

G: What's that.

K: That will not change as far as I am concerned. It will change as far as these other officials are concerned.

G: Well that's very good. Are you going to go back to California or

K: Yes. I am going back tonight and I have my children out there and I am then coming back Labor Day. I'm seeing a lot of the State Department people that I'm consulting out there. Bill Sullivan is coming back and I'm meeting with him tomorrow. Do you think of getting him into the Department.

K: I don't know yet but you know how highly I think of him.

G: Sure. Well it's. He is of course a very good man. That's one of the things I wanted to ask you. Is it your plan to move fairly quickly on sort of putting people in place as Assistant Secretaries or pretty much stay with the current set-up.

I'm

K: I haven't thought that through yet. XXXX meeting with Ken Rush today and we are going to do that as a partnership. I haven't really thought it through yet.

G: The other question which I raised in a news analysis last week was how do you-- in fact I was on a TV show with Schlesinger yesterday and I asked him about it.

K: This is all background.

G: Yes I understand. How do you like for instance if State Department and DOD have different opinions on something important.

K: I'm going to win.

G: (Laughter)

K: Do you have any other questions.

G: Are you serious. No, I mean do you put on your other hat and say

K: I think this is going to be a delicate problem. And I think I will have to lean over backwards to make sure that the other Departments perceive that the interdepartmental process works fairly and since in the past my pressure has always been in the favor of increasing options

for the President. And since not even the State Department can carry
schizophrenia to the point of having a lot of options so you know some of
them will have to include other departments.

G: Yes.

K: And if they see that in the interdepartmental capacity that's going to
be done but I will have to make some changes in maybe the level of
representation. I mean who participates at meetings.

G: I see. Yeah. If it was really an important matter you would be
better if you were the one presenting the views to the President.

K: First of all I'll have to avoid to the extent possible departmental
confrontations of the traditional kind. Secondly, if the other departments
realize that my pressure is to get options developed and that they can
develop their own and that they will go then to the President I think we
can make it work.

G: I see.

K: But I read your analysis and I thought it was well done.

G: It was just obvious questions but I would... I'm just thinking with
Bill Sullivan back again could he possibly be brought in as an Assistant
Secretary with the ______ experience?

I'm just mentioning him.

K: Look he's back. / I've got Phil Habib coming back, Dick Helms, I've
got a lot of Ambassadors, Pat Moynihan, I've got a lot of them
coming back to talk to me.

G: This is specifically you asked to talk to them for their views on how
the Department should run.

K: That's right.

G: That's interesting. Could I just ... Moynihan, Habib, Helms, Sullivan
any others.

K: Sullivan. Who else is coming back? Let me see. Brown from Jordan,
Jerry Martin, ______ from Japan. You see I want to get different areas.
People with different types of experience.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E 0.12958
By NARA Dae 6/9/09

G: Hillenbrand?

K: No.

G: Anybody from Europe.

K: No because between Ken Rush and myself we know Europe pretty well.

G: So you've seen Rush today. porter today?

K: I don't think so. I have to have a pretty long session with Rush.

G: That will be where. At the White House.

K: Yes.

G: And these other people you're trying just to get their feeling on ideas and things. It's not so much their jobs.

K: No. It's their views. To some extent to who the good people are. Above all it's how they visualize how the Department should be run. What they see the problems in their area. And if you look at that list they come from different backgrounds.

K:

G: Yes. Some in and some out of government. / Some in. Some entirely out of government. Some in the government but not of the State Department some other and then some of the younger people like Ted Elliott I've already talked with.

G: Do you think they'll still go out to Afghanistan. It seems like.

K: Well these fellows all love their Embassies but I haven't on personnel I just can't, frankly will not address that question until I'm confirmed.

G: I see.

K: Except to get a feel of who is well thought of. But how to organize it and whom to put where I can't deal with until after my confirmation.

G: What about this damn Moscow Embassy. I can't believe that UPI report that Hammer was considered for that Embassy.

- 4 -

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12958
By: NARA Date 6/9/09

K: Strictly off the record. I wouldn't go with that one.

G: No.

K: Now or ever.

G: I would think that would be a [redacted] disaster. I don't even think the Rockfeller wants him __________.

K: Don't act so indignant about that one because that's not going to happen.

G: I'm not. I would like to see him as Ambassador but I see Howe was out in California also. /That's right. I've talked to him. We'll move K: energetically on filling all the vacancies as soon as I am confirmed.

G: OK.

K: That will be done within a matter of weeks after I'm confirmed.

G: One other thing. The incumbents Secretary of State is very annoyed at Joe Alsop's column last week.

K: I have no reason. I don't know whether there is the slightest element of truth in it. I have not talked to Joe Alsop. To me it doesn't sound right because none of these events I have ever heard of and.

G: There is no reason for you to doubt Rogers story that he wanted out at the end of last year.

K: I believe Rogers story totally.

G: OK.

K: I think the Alsop thing is one of these mischievous things that you know if you ask yourself who could possibly know these facts and I didn't know them so if I didn't know them. If they were true there were only one or two people that could possibly know them. Why would they tell that to Joe Alsop. What conceivable motive would they have.

G: I suspect he made that up maybe.

- 5 -

DECLASSIFIED
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AB

K: To me this sounds like one of those things where Joe Alsop wanted this to happen. Figured it wasn't happening because Rogers was an impediment to his recommendation and then made up the rest.

G: Yeah, well the mechanical things....

K: And I really think that Rogers has behaved with dignity. I have no reason to suppose that Alsop's story is anything else except ... I don't know who could have told it to him that would have any credibility.

G: No, I don't either. The mechanical thing. XXXX Assuming you are confirmed before the U.N. session. Is it your plan to go up there for that torture.

K: I plan to give that talk. Yes.

G: I mean but then to stay on like your predecessors for a week or so. To meet everybody.

K: No. Not to meet everybody but to ... I plan to stay up for a few days.

G: OK. If you go to Peking would you be taking press as Secretary of State

K: I plan to take XXXX a small press party.

G: I make my reservations (laughter)

K: I don't know XXX how we're going to work that out.

G: It's going to be tough. The way it's traditionally worked at the State Department on like when Secretaries of State are going on trips.....

K: I don't think I can get more than one press plane.

G: This would be in fact a precedence breaker. As far as I can tell the in the past the Secretary of State made a trip the press that went on it was simply filled up the seats that were left after the Secretary ....

K: I'm joking. There will not be a press plane. I'll take a few press and we'll have to find some XXXX fair way of proportioning those seats.

G: Yea. As I say in the past you recognize coming over to the State Dept. you're bringing much more charisma to this office that its had in the past so I suppose it's perhaps a little unfair to you that you're style of office

DECLASSIFIED
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will be watched by the people as much as the substance.

K: I really Bernie will want to talk to a number of you as soon as I am confirmed and if you will....

G: Oh sure. I think the best way to do it is just to have a dinner somewhere.

K: Yes. That's what I plan to do within the first week.

G: And just kick it around the ... The traditional problem is really you know it's just a flow of information and the access to it.

K: And give some thought about some of your colleagues who might have some ideas on this. I guess Pete Lisagore would be somebody.

G: Well he would. You see we had at the State Department a Correspondents Association.

K: Oh you do. Are you accredited to the State Department.

G: It doesn't work that way. I have a White House pass but at the State Department we have a State Department's correspondents association which is a little more substantive than the White House Correspondents Association. The current President. I mean the offices have no .....

K: I'm thinking of taking Ziegler over as a spokesman.

quit

G: I think that's a bad joke. (laughter) Well you see <u>Charlie Bray</u> with all bad things about you.

K: I noticed that.

G: I don't know. I think he has a father fixation on.

K: Look. He worked closely with Rogers and I'm going to do my damnest to keep him in the foreign. This is always tough.

G: Sure. He feels very bitter you know and it's just I think probably when he calms down.

K: I hope 6 months from now he will feel he's in a worthwhile organization. Give some thought. I don't know who the people are over there.

- 7 -

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E0.12958
By AB NARA Date 6/9/69

G: I'll tell you what I'll do.

K: Marvin Kalb is one

G: Yes. Marvin, Murray, myself, Bill Hensley of UPI and then there is a couple of AP people.

K: The smaller the better actually. But I don't say it has to be.

G: Sure. The current President of the organization is a fellow named Derius DeHabala(?) of the Boston Globe.

K: Oh yes. He's good.

G: Yes. He's good and perhaps what I'll do is mention to him and we can invite you to a dinner.

K: Why don't you do that. Do it during the first week after my confirmation.

G: When do you expect the hearings to begin?

K: I have no way of knowing.

G: Do you think you'll be clear by the 10th of September.

K: I doubt it but I hope by the 20th. But I really I don't want to speak for the Committee. I haven't talked to them about it.

G: Sure. OK. Let me just check on this other thing. These Ambassadors are all coming out to California TO SEE you this week.

K: Most of them this week. A few will meet me here in Washington next week.

G: I see. So I'll just say you're consulting with a group of Ambassadors.

K: And they'll be more.

G: Oh I see. In other words numerous Ambassadors and State Dept. officials.

K: Right.

G: OK good its a pleasure to talk to you in your new job.

- 8 -

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.12958
By AB NARA Date 5/9/69

Telcon
Zahedi/HAK
Aug. 27/73
9:53 am

Zahedi: Good morning. (click - hung up)

HAK! Well that did it.

(Zahedi called back)

Zahedi: I'm terribly sorry. Good morning, again.

HAK: Yes, Mr. Ambassador.

Zahedi: I called this morning just to say good morning to you.

I wanted to congratulate you again, first of all.

HAK: Thank you Mr. Ambassador.

Zahedi: I have talked with our friend for the last two days and a half.

HAK: Good.

Zahedi: He is gone. I was planning to call you and then come to see you and an hour ago HIM called from me from Tehran and asked me to come to Tehran before I come to U. S.

HAK: I think that's a good idea.

Zahedi: He also asked me to go twenty-four hours to Pakistan.

HAK: excellent.

Zahedi: So, is it alright that I go there and I will be in touch with you later.

HAK: Yes, and see me as soon as you return.

Zahedi: I shall do that Dr. Kissinger.

HAK: Thank you, Mr. Ambassador - How nice of you to call me.

Zahedi: Not at all.

HAK: Give my warmest regards to his majesty.

Zahedi: I shall do that. Goodbye.

TELCOM

Bernard Gwertzman/Mr. Kissinger

2:15 p.m. 8/27/73

K: Bernie: I just felt that as long as I talked to you this morning, I didn't --I couldn't confirm until I talked to them, but I wanted you to know that I also saw Mansfield and Fulbright, while I was here.

G: Okay, at your office--

K: Fulbright, I had lunch with at my office and Mansfield in his office. I don't want to go into the substance, but it is obvious what the subject was.

G: I assume it is your confirmation.

K: Yeh.

G: I haven't spoken to Fulbright, I can't imagine him having any real problem Did they set a date?

K: They are going to work it out in the next few days, I mean, this is off-the-record, but it was all in a very amicable and cooperative spirit.

G: Right. And you are going back to California tomorrow?

K: No tonight,

G: And you'll be there through Labor Day and come back when the President comes back.

K: Right.

G: Okay, one other thing, on these ambassadors coming in for consultation, Habib is coming back on the bit of a stir in Korea today.

K: No significance other than I worked with him and value his judgment

G: Right, that is what I assumed, but it is not connected with this kidnapping.

K: None whatsoever--absolutely nothing to do with any substantive matters

G: Okay, Habib, Helms, Moynihan, Sullivan, Brown and Jordan of Jordan, Graham Martin, Ingersoll, and then--how does Sonnerfeldt fit into this--is he?

K: I'm consulting him too. But they'll be others.

TELCORN

Mr. Kissinger/Marilyn Berger

2:25 p.m.

8/27/73

B: Hi, how are you?

K: I'm on the way out.

B: Okay, very quickly, two things from our people in Europe--are you going to keep the Sept. 10th thing?

K: No.

B: No, are you going to Fuerth--there was a story

K: I was, but I have cancelled that.

B: Are you going to Europe this week, because I'm going to be there, and I just wanted to be--

K: I'd love to--and if you make it interesting.

B: In fact I have a letter from Guido on my desk ifx saying if you
you are going to be in Paris, write to me and m y brother. Seriously,
are you going to be there, because I want to keep in touch with the office

K: No, I'm not going to be there--I don't think I should make any public appearances until I am confirmed.

B: Do you have any reading on when it will be--the first week they come back

K: I can't be sure. I really don't know. I think it is up to Fulbright.

B: All right, I hear some people are coming back to work for you, some people are coming back to see you like Sullivan and--can you tell me who else is coming back?

K: But all of this is background.

B: Q All right.

K: Sullivan, Habib, Moynihan, Ingersoll, Martin, Helms, Brown, McCloskey, but I'll have others come back.

B: Are you going to have McCloskey come back?

K: No, no--excuse me, I have Senator Aitkin calling--

DECLASSIFIED
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Page 2

[talks to Sen. Aitkin and then come back]

B: Oh hi. You were talking about who was coming in and you said Martin--is the arms control one?"

K: No, Graham Martin

B: Okay. Anyone else--you ended with McCloskey

K: Those are the only ones that I have got at the top of my mind.

B: All right, now can you tell me the purpose of these discussions and when I can use it.

K: The purpose is first to get people of different experience in the foreing establishment--that is to say, career foreign service officers, government officials who are now ambassadors and finally outsiders to tell me what their substantive problems are and what their general attitude towards the department--

B: Can you tell me who from the outside you are speaking to?

K: That I haven't started yet, but I'll be seeing McGeorge Bundy, John McCloy, David Rockefeller, There are just people who--

B: How about Dean Rusk

K: Yes, I've talked to him already.

B: George Ball?

K: George Ball, yes, Nick Katzenbach, Richard Newstadt--these are people with whom I have already had appointments--Bill Bundy--there will be many more.

B: Are these going to be mainly in San Clemente, the ambassadors, I mean?

K: Yeh/

B: And the others are going to be

K: In Washington, mostly.

B: When do you leave tonight?

K: Within--if you ever get off the goddamn telephone

B: Come-on can you tell me about your meeting with Rush today?

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E0.12958
By A6 NARA Date 6/9/69

K: It was just a review of transition problems and what is ahead of me.

B: Can you say whether you anticipate a lot of changes in the top staff.

K: I don't want to comment that--won't address that until I'm confirmed.

B: And you still have no better reading now that you have spoken to Aitkin

K: No. I don't think it is for me to say anyway.

B: Do you feel that they will take this opportunity to--I am sure there will be no opposition to you, but to discuss foreign policy and attitudes

K: I have no way of knowing

B: Would you like that

K: Oh I'll have many opportunities to expound them

B: A lot of the people you mentioned who were outside the government were people in democratic administration, --is this also a part of bipartisan ship you are seeking?

K: Absolutely.

B: How can I use this stuff--all on background

K: Just say that is what you understand from sources close to Kissinger --Marilyn get off the goddamn phone/

B: It is very exciting, we are going to have fun. How often will you have press conferences.

K: At least once a month. There will be plenty of press contacts.

B: It'll be great. One guy said it is best thing since sliced bread-- there is not going to be any problem over here. Everybody's got their arms open for him?

K: Really?

B: I'll tell you who it was just between us--the head of the American Foreign Service Association--I was talking about what Charlie Bray had said about wiretapping business and I said do you think they are going to bring it up or anyone will mention it--he said, boy everybody is so excited about having some role in this thing, that no one will mention it.

Telcon

August 27, 1973

Joe Alsop/HAK 3:00 p/m

HAK: Hello.

Alsop: Hello Henry. I just found out from Brent that you are here.

HAK: Yep.

Alsop: Are you free for supper?

HAK: No, no. I am on my away out, I am going back.

Alsop: I hope everything I wrote is okay.

HAK: It caused enor mous trouble.

Alsop: KKKKKK oh?

HAK: I mean it, the history of how it all happened. I don't know where you got it, maybe from me, but it--

Alsop: No, no, not from you. If I had gotten it from you I wouldn't have put it in the paper.

HAK: Well, I didn't think I had given it to you.

Alsop: No, you didn't.

HAK: Well, Rogers is almost beside himself, and of course... But otherwise I had no problem. So if I may, make no predictions until my confirmation is over because I'll just get into one helluva problem.

Alsop: Yes. I'm through on the subject, Henry.

HAK: Then I appreciate it.

Alsop: It was a pretty good piece this morning, wasn't it?

HAK: This morning was excellent.

Alsop: And ________ too, for once. I've been calling everyone in God's creation. I just can't gleen anything.

HAK: About what.

Alsop: This is just whatever is going on in China. And, anyhow these strange growls, and things and such that are going on in Soviet Union.

DECLASSIFIED
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By NARA Dae 6/9/69

Alsop/HAK

-2-

HAK: Where?

Alsop: Huh?

HAK: Where?

Alsop: I told Mansfield I couldn't get a hold of you. I said to Mike, something perfectly awful happened on the other side of the border next week I wouldn't be surprised.

HAK: Well. As you know my position on it.

Alsop: Well, I don't know whether you'd be surprised or not.

HAK: Well, I'd be surprised if it happened this year. But I, it is ominous.

Alsop: You know, I know the Soviets are trying to interfere in some kind of funny internal survival, or it is their schedule to take advantage of this Water-gate-induced weakness.

HAK: I think both.

Alsop: And, this is why I think, if something started I wouldn't be very surprised.

HAK: Well, I still don't expect anything this summer.

Alsop: The storm clouds are gathering, I must say.

HAK: I think that's right.

Alsop: What do you make of the general situation on the other side, on the southern side of that border?

HAK: I have the impression that Chou has now consolidated.

Alsop: You really do?

HAK: Yep.

Alsop: Good, good. Henry, is it slated for this week, or Friday the following? I just wanted to alert...

HAK: Friday the following week.

Alsop: Good, good.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E0.12958
By A NARA Date 6/9/09

Telcon

August 27, 1973

Laird/HAK 3:02 p.m.

HAK: Hello.

Laird: Hi, Henry.

HAK: Mel, how are you?

Laird: Did your meetings go well?

HAK: Very well.

Laird: That's wonderful.

Say, Henry, I just wanted to alert you, I alerted Brent to this, just so you know about it. I think that you ought to read over the, that White Paper on Cambodia, here that they're going to send to the Senate Armed Services Committee. You know, I think that you ought to read over that, that White.

HAK: They're not going to send any goddamn paper if I have anything to do with it.

Laird: I just didn't want it to arrive up there about the time you were up for confirmation hearings. That's the only reason that I was concerned about it.

HAK: Well, when are they wanting to do it?

Laird: Well, they promised to Smyington that the week, as soon as Congress gets back.

HAK: &*(%&!!!

Laird: j You know, I don't want to get you upset, Henry but I just thing you ought to read it and somebody ought to look at it. I personally would like Al Haig, and Bob personally to go over it.

Laird: I want you to go over it.

Laird: Yeh, if they go over it I'm satisfied.

HAK: I would like you to go over it, too.

Laird: But I think the two of them and certainly, if we are here, and there is time I will read it over. But I don't want them to think that I'm first, because

Laird/HAK

-2-

they might think that I'm concerned because they might get all upset if I'm...
m

HAK: Look the SOB's have no business promising it.

Laird: Well, this is on the history of the Cambodian thing, and it's a White
Paper on it and I just think that we ought to watch for, it alittle bit because
we had the thing quited down once and they, it keeps opening up all the time.

So, I hate to bother you about it, but I just thought it was important enough
to talk directly to you about it.

HAK: I appreciate it.

Laird: Okay, Henry, goodbye.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.12958
By: AB NARA Date 6/9/04

T Elcon

General Scowcroft /HAK

August 27, 1973 3:10 pm

HAK: Hello?

Scowcroft: Hello Henry, this is Brent.

HAK: I understand that Defense is putting out a White Paper on Cambodia. This week the same week that I'm going up for confirmation hearings. Now that is impossible.

Scowcroft: I'll find out.

HAK: Now you tell them we want them to please get everything together, we must see it. Tell them blood is going to flow now. Why do they have to stir things up now is beyond me.

Scowcroft: I'll have to talk to them about this at once. I thought it was dead but I'll take care of it.

HAK: Will you do it, please?

Scowcroft: I sure will, immediately.

HAK: Why haven't we heard from Moorer?

Scowcroft: I don't know why we haven't heard from Moorer. but I'll find that out.

HAK: Will you do that?

Scowcroft: Yes, I will. I thought maybe I should tell, I should find some of Schlesinger's things could be very helpful.

HAK: Like what?

Scowcroft: We're looking at drawing down on Taiwan, which is not a very low key way to do it, and also in Korea. Depending on the security situation but you know I just don't think those are the kind of things ...

HAK: Of course not.

Scowcroft: So I thought I'd hit them between the eyes on that too.

HAK: Right. Right. Did you just talk to Eagleburger yesterday about my possibly keeping Pickering?

*

TELCONS Secy James Schlesinger -- Henry A. Kissinger

August 28, 1973 9:30 a. m.

K: Helo

S: Henry

K: Jim, how are you?

S: How is the Secretary of State-de designate?

K: Well you have been a designate yourself.

S: It can be a time consuming process. I see that our pundit friend, Mr. Nicholas Von Hoffman thinks that you are soft on Communists.

K: [Laughing] Yeh, I thought that was something.

S: Yeh, that is an interesting...

K: That's a new development

S: Henry, you know Peter Hill Norton who is Tom Moore's counterpart over there in Britain, you know of him.

K: Yeah, Tom called me about that.

S: Oh he has called you already.

K: But don't let them up for air yet, Jim.

S: No, I am not doing that. I just wanted for you to be sure you are aware that there was this signal of some distress.

K: Yeh, well, let's keep it up.

S: Okay

K: And you be very conciliatory, but we would like to keep it up just a tiny bit longer.

S: Okay you know that the British Navy has been here to talk to our people about Poseidon about which they have gotten desperate and I insturcted our only to answer question and I don't think this way or the other way and don't say anything about what the United States would be prepared to do.

K: Right.

A6

HAK -- Schleisinger

-2-

S: Now curiously enough this morning's Sykes called up here and desperately whether I was aware that this meeting was going on and whether you were aware. So there sensitivity as to our sensitivities is very high at the moment.

K: But I would let them feel some coolness.

S: Okay now we can do this.

K: Are you coming out Friday, Jim?

S: I thought not, Henry, by the way. The President is supposed to come back on Friday, x y x a d

K: He is coming back on Friday, yeah. But I will stay out here during the weekend.

S: If you can let me off, Johnny Foster can do the thing for me.

K: OK

S: And there are advantages in that, just in terms of the playing out the string. We don't want to seem to eager by having State Defense running at this stage to say that I am available. Do you want Dick Walters out there by the way?

K: Yes.

S: Good, well how does it feel?

K: Chuckling I am not, you know just finding out about the bloody department which some thing you went through a few weeks ago.

S: Yes.

K: It is a bewildering experience.

S: I think you have me all the way down to the bottom.

K: But ah,

S: I recall something you said to me three years ago, when I went out to the AEC

K: Which was what?

S: Jobs are less good than they appear on the surface.

K: That is true. Jim I am most anxious to talk to you then about how we work out the interdepartmental system now. We can do that though after I get back.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.12958
By AB NARA Date 6/9/69

HAK -- Schleisinger

-3-

S: Yeah that is no great problem now.

K: Do you want to have breakfast Wednesday the 5th?

S: That will be okay.

K: Let's have breakfast just you and I on Wednesday the 5th.

S1: Good.

K: Good.

S: Okay you are planning to do a little Asia.

K: In October.

S: Okay anything else we ~~march~~ ought to be doing.

K: I don't think so.

S: Well I have been repeating my threats against Hanoi.

K: Well you have been doing beautifully. I saw your "Meet the Press" or whatever It was "Face the Nation" Whichever it was it was superb.

S: Good, good. Well I have the feeling we have a little life back into the administration.

K: I think that ~~we~~ between you and me we can really give the foreign policy a national security policy a real coherence it has not had before.

S: A long required overhaul. Well very good Henry and if you need anything just give us a whistle and we will see you real soon. Do you want me to come over to the White House?

K: Either place, let's settle that on Tuesday. Okay. Why don't you come over

S: The fifth is a Wednesday, well we ~~x~~ can settle on Tuesday, fine.

K: Good

S: Okay Henry, have a good weekend.

K:: BYE.

Telcon Bruce Harlow -- Henry Kissinger

August 28, 1973 9:45

K: Hello.

H: Hello there.

K: Hello your excellency.

H: I thought your press was pretty good this morning.

K: You do, I haven't seen it all yet.

H: Yeah it will take you a long time to see all of it. But it was a good rendition of your business yesterday. I understand you are off to have a nice visit by phone with Aiken.

K: Yeah, that is what I wanted to call you about, He was very, very friendly. And he said the only problem is the President not me. That is some may justify to start sniping at him. But if it isn't for that he said we would be all right. He said he talked to Symington and he didn't see any problems.

H: That Symington did not.

K: No, that he, Aiken didn't see any problems. He asked me who would be troublesome. I said the only one I know is Symington.

H: He said he had talked to him.

K: And he said anything you want, anything you can think of, any statement I told him you were handling it and that pleased him.

H: Did you tell him that I would be in contact with him?

K: Well, I told him if there was anything you would be in contact with him.

H: All right, I think I had better call him.

K: All right.

H: To see if there is anything that is needed.

K: Right.

H: Now then, you got differing recommendations yesterday from these two Senators about what you should do about seeing other soldiers.

K: I think I ought to do what Fulbright says.

H: Well, I frankly don't. I think that there ought to be an offer made to see

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.12958
By NARA Date 6/9/67

*

DECLASSIFIED
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By AB NARA Dize 6/9/09

HAK Harlow

-2-

these other fellows.

K: Yeah, but that was what they agreed on. I think I ought to call their offices and offer to see them.

H: Well what I was going to do, unless you stop me from it, is rather than you call is to have Tom call each of these offices and tell them that he knows that you have talked to the Senators. That he has been requested to make it clear that if they wish to visit with you at all, for the hearings that you are quite willing to do so.

K: That is good, no, no that is fine, but Fulbright agreed with that. What I understood Fulbright to say is that we shouldn't request a appointment.

H: Well, he just said it was a waste of time. And I thought that was rather correct. Well anyhow, when will you have available time to see these people?

K: Tuesday afternoon and Wednesday afternoon. And Thursday afternoon and unless or if you want to Tuesday in the morning Ineed here in the office. So I can do it Tuesday in the afternoon and Wednesday morning and Thursday morning if the mornings are better.

H: Let's see here, you can't do more than four in the morning. So we are talking about 4, 4 8 maybe...

K: But I am hoping that some of them will let me off.

H: Yeah you are talking only about ten or twelve of them. We'll see how it goes.

K: I don't have to see Fulbright and Massfield, of course. I told him Aiken I would call on him on the 5th and that must be done first.

H: You don't have a time for it.

K: No, I said I would be in touch with them. He is coming abck the afternoon of the fourth. He said he didn't care if I did or not, but I he was very pleased when I offered it.

H: Yeah, All right, then I will tell Tom to do that, to go through that exercise.

K: Right.

H: And I will tell him when you are available.

K: Right.

H: Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday morning, Thursday morning.

HAK Harlow

K: Right, or if he prefers Wednesday afternoon and Thursday afternoon to Wednesday morning and Thursday morning, one or the other on Wednesday.

H: All right.

K: Now of the people I haven't talked yet. They are Percy, Pell, Pearson and Case.

H: You missed that on the x calls.

K: That is right, and they might deserve special attention.

H: Okay, alright, I guess that is all we have immediately. I thought your discussion yesterday went nicely. And...

K: And they made nice noises. Somebody told me that Mondale has now come out for me.

H: Is that so?

K: Yeah.

H: That's too bad, we'll get over that.

K: I know you will be lining up a few negatives, you haven't begun to fight yet.

H: The boss told me to get a 50% nomination.

K: So that Agnew could break the tie, I think that would give me real legitimacy.

H: Yeah and we can work that out. The VP is available at that time

K: Thank you Bryce.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E01.2958
By: NARA Date 5/9/69

TELCORN

Mr. Kissinger/Senator Aitkin

2:27 p.m. 8/28/73

A: Henry?

K: Hello, Senator. I am calling you--I got into Washington for a day to see Mike Mansfield and Fulbright, and I just want to report to you about the conversations and to tell you that with your agreement, I'd like to see you on the first convenient day, after I return which will be next Monday.

A: We'll try to get down there the afternoon of the 4th

K: I'll have people--my staff call you office and I'd be glad to call on you on the 5th, if convenient for you.

A: Yeh,

K: Mike was very, very positive and encouraging. And he said he would do anything he could to speed it up.

A: They'll use you to shoot at the President if you can.

K: I beg your pardon?

A: They'll shoot at the President--if they shoot at you, the bullet is intended for the President

K: Right. But he said anything he could do to smooth things, he would do

A: Who needs smoothing? Frank Church?

K: I think Symington may need a little

A: He's got to haggle over everything?

A:

K Yeh. / That's why--I'm on two committees with him--atomic energy

K: And otherwise, we haven't identified anybody yet.

A: I don't think so.

K: And he's

A: I don't think so--Fulbright and Mike, although liked Bill Rogers very much

K: I have great respect for Bill Rogers also,

A: But they will not oppose you

Page 2

K: I had lunch with Fulbright and he is planning to hold the first meeting on September 7.

A: Friday.

K: And he thinks it can be done in a couple of days.

A: Just got to the house, I had lunch with two of your colleagues down here at Ellsworth Bunker and ____.

K: Oh lovely people

A: They've been up here for a couple weeks. I wouldn't sit up nights worrying, because Stu Symington just can help it.

K: Actually I know him personally quite well and can't believe he will drive it to an extreme.

A: He can't help it--while I like him personally, once in a while he ____ me and I may have a chance to talk with him a little. Because after all, I tell him so what, this country can't go without a secretary.

K: It would be helpful because I'd like to--the UN begins on the--

A: Any other member of the committee--Chuck Percy is okay

K: Percy is okay

A: Jack will

K: Jack is fine.

A: Jack will want you to agree to help his bank of friends, but that's all right. On the deocratic side, I can't think of anyone besides possibly Church. But Frank's got an election coming up. And he'll be concerned about that particularly. By the way, as far as I know no people have ever carried the vote other than a Republican candidate ____ was it a one-sided ____ do you know?

K: It was 51%

A: That's good enough.

K: But it was considered an upset, my people tell me.

A: Yes, it would have been. And there'll be more of them too.

TELCONE

Bob Pierpoint/Kissinger

9:46 a.m. - 8/29/73

K: Hello.

P: Henry, how are you?

K: OK, Bob, how are you?

P: I never did get a chance to congratulate personally on what I consider
a well deserved promotion, if it is that.

K: Aren't you nice. I appreciate it. Two weeks ago I would have said
it was a demotion, but now I have a vested interest.

P: You're willing to accept it as a higher post now.

K: In building up my new position.

P: Henry, I'm calling because we have a mutual friend who is now going to
be available and you may well be aware of it but I just thought I would
mention to you that Henry Cato is no longer Ambassador to San Salvador
or El Salvador and is going to be in Washington and is ready, willing
and able to take on any chore for the government that the government
might find for him.

K: Oh really, I thought he was Ambassador in San Salvador.

P: That's right and I think the fact of the matter is that he got just kind
of a little bored with the job. He, as you know, speaks fluent Spanish.
He and Jessica both and he wants to work in the State Department. He's
not going to go back to San Antonio. They have bought a house there; in
fact they bought Tim Hoopes place.

K: What happened to Tim?

P: I don't know to tell the truth. I never quite figured out whether he 's
gone back - isn't he from Connecticut or something like that?

K: Yeh.

P: And I think he must have decided instead of moving back to their home,
Henry and Jessica bought the Hoopes place and they're moving to
Washington when he finishes up in San Salvador. I just didn't know whether
anybody would bring it to your attention or not.

DECLASSIFIED
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K: No, they didn't and I've grateful that you did. I'm not going to make any personnel movements obviously until I'm sworn in.

P: Of course. Of course.

K: And I'm at a very, very preliminary stage of even looking at what jobs need to be filled and whom I might have to fill them with, but I like him and I like her.

P: I think they're both a terrific couple.

K: I'm glad you called them to my attention.

P: Good. I knew that once I mention it you would put it in your mind and if there was something you thought he could do useful - I just feel that they're both real assets to the community and they want to do government service, they don't have to go back to Texas and work for a living if they don't want to. They want to contribute so there you are.

K: I'll tell you one thing if they're working for me they're working for a living. At least working.

P: (Laughs) I understand that. In fact my feeling is that I haven't done Henry Cato any favor but my intention was to do you one.

K: What usually happens is that the people who last become good personal friends. If you have a sense of dedication then it's fun and I think he does.

P: He does. He always has had and he feels very strongly that, particularly in this area of Latin America that he can make a contribution but you know he's just a very capable guy so I just try to bring it to your attention and also wish you all the best in the new job.

K: Thank you, Bob. I think I can use this occasion to tell you that I thought you've always been fair and professional.

P: Thanks. I will continue to try. You know I won't get to see you as much.

K: That I will regret.

P: OK, Bye.

TELCONE

Hank Trewhitt/Kissinger

2:30 p.m. - 8/29/73

K: Hello.

T: Dr. Kissinger, first of all let me give my personal congratulations
because I think this is absolutely spectacular and good for the country.

K: Thank you, aren't you nice.

T: Really, it's magnificent.

K: Thank you.

T: Now on the people you're calling back. Would you regard these as people
you're seeking advice from primarily or as potential for higher positions
in the Department?

K: Advice at this stage but you can't exclude the other eventually, but that
is not the primary function because you know I'm calling back a helluva
lot more people than there are any possible jobs for.

T: Sure. Obviously. I understand my old friend Bob McCloskey's in town.
I better try to look him up.

K: In his case it's entirely advice.

T: The -- now you called Mansfield and Fulbright, that gets you going out
in the kind of

K: And I called Aiken.

T: You did call him?

K: Yes.

T: Does one assume as Mansfield says there should be no problem with
confirmation?

K: That's my impression.

T: Right. So how long would you expect to have to wait after the confirmation
hearing begins to get an answer.

K: I have no way of knowing - 2 or 3 days.

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T: Then do you expect to have your structure in, ready to go, when you go into the Department.

K: Oh no. I'll need a couple of weeks after I get there. I won't make any personnel decisions until I'm sworn in.

T: Right. Can you give me any guidance as to how much of a change or shakeup at the top level you expect?

K: I really can't. I want to look this over. I want to get the views of a lot of people before I make any decisions and I've just started the process. All of this is background.

T: Absolutely. I'm trying to sort of chart a scenario. One can certainly assume that one of the primary purposes will be to get the Department back into the main stream of policy making.

K: No question about it.

T: Is there going to be, as far as you can tell, first of all a very empirical question for me, who do you expect - what kind of structure do you expect to leave over in the NSC?

K: Basically the same structure I have now with perhaps a few of the more operational things moving with me over to State.

T: Are you going to allow any access to your Deputy in the White House?

K: To see my Deputy in the White House?

T: Yeh.

K: Sure.

T: Because otherwise I'm going to be dealt out of that and I want to

K: No, but I'll also be Assistant. You can see me at the White House.

T: Back to an immediate question in foreign affairs. Do you have any sense yet of what kind of ideological change, if any, or policy change if any that might be represented by this Chinese Congress?

K: I can't make any comment about that yet. My impression is that it probably means that Chou has won out.

T: That's what I was getting at.

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K: That's my impression.

T: So then it doesn't pose a further problem for us in foreign affairs as far as you can tell at the moment.

K: No.

T: Do you have any sense of how soon one can expect to see a Kissingerian application of your philosophy and approach and concept to the Department itself in the conduct of foreign affairs? These people have been around for so long and the bureaucracy is so overweight over there.

K: I don't want to speculate on that, but I expect to start moving immediately.

T: You would set out as early as possible to create that kind of momentum?

K: Definitely. Without any question. Hank, I have got to run off.

T: OK. Thanks a million for the help and I'll be bugging you again.

K: Good.

TELCON

Mike Mansfield/Kissinger

11:10 a.m. - 8/30/73

K: Hello.

M: How are you, Henry?

K: Fine.

M: Where are you calling from?

K: I'm calling from San Clemente and I'm going over to the Western White House and as we discussed on Monday, one of the matters that I'm most concerned with is the Congressional position and one individual who's come to my attention who might fit the bill very admirably is however in your jurisdiction. Before I approached him, or even had an exploratory talk with him, I wanted to discuss him with you and get your approval. He's Stanley Kimmett who is - you know who is he - he's from your state and he'd have, of course, great experience with the Senate. I've never talked to him or met him so I don't know whether we would have rapport if we actually met, but on paper he looks like the sort of man with the sort of background that I think would do the job very well.

M: That would be a decision for you to make, Henry, and I would suggest that you call him up first before you go any further and see if he fits your plan and if he doesn't, fine, he's still got a job.

K: But would you object if I talked to him?

M: No.

K: And he's well regarded by the other Senators I would assume.

M: I would think so, yes.

K: With your permission then, I would like to talk to him and we both understand that I'd have to size him up but I didn't want to go any further without having talked to you.

M: Oh, no, no, no, you can talk to him, Henry, and make up your own mind. He's going to have to represent you for a lot of tough jobs up there. And anything you say is OK with me.

K: Exactly. Many thanks.

M: OK, Henry, and listen have you heard about Huang Chen now that the Congress is over.

2

K: I've had, for your information only, the Chinese called in Bruce
prior to his return here and had a very lengthy conversation with
him which to me seems to indicate that they are now ready to move
forward again.

M: The important thing, Henry is that it looks like your policy is going
to be continuous as a result of the outcome of these party meetings.

K: That seems to be clear now and I think that now we can pick up these
various projects again and then I'll set a date after my confirmation
for going there and I still hope we can synchronize these two trips.

M: We'll see. OK, Henry. Take care and enjoy that sunshine out there.
We're getting too much of it here.

K: Thank you. Nice to talk to you.

M: Bye, Henry.

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