Reproduced from the open files
of the Nixon Presidential
Materials Staff

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

Telcon
Secretary Rogers
11/6/70; 12:10 p.m.

By: KML

NARA, Dato 5/12/04

K: Just two minor things. 1. I hope you understand I hadn't asked Macomber to come over. He cornered me about two months ago and said he wanted to brief me. I have no interest. If you want me to know about it...

R: It is just premature, that is all.

K: I want you to know I didn't take the initiative.

R: I appreciate that.

K: As far as I am concerned it is entirely up to you. I am not getting into that until you tell me you want me to.

R: OK.

K: The President wants Bruce to be sick all next week and not go to the Plenary Session, either. I don't think it makes any difference. I just want to pass that on. I think that is the only thing. I will talk to Jack Irwin this afternoon about what all this leads to on Chile.

R: I think on these things... I thought we were doing well up to the last part. There doesn't seem to me to be any difference on anybody's part.

K: Irwin might be a little gentler in the methods. I agree with you completely, and Laird seemed to.

R: It seems to me what Allende is doing is pretty clever. I think our policy should be just exactly that.

K: That is exactly my view of it. I think he wanted to get it off his chest.

R: A couple of things he said were just not right. On Peru we have done everything we could to squeeze them. We have hurt the hell out of them.

K: That is right, and besides, Peru is different.

R: On Cuba we have never made any recommendation to have policy changed. I don't know where he got that idea. He said papers kept coming to him recommending changes in Cuba.

K: Last year Charlie Meyer recommended change. I think you were away. That basic policy be discussed.

R: I think the President should distinguish between having a question discussed and changing policy.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12950, Sect. 3.6

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

*

Secy Rogers

- 2 -

K: I don't think he was attacking State.

R: I don't think so either. I don't know who he was talking about. My attitude all the time was, fine, let Cuba go along - if they have problems let them handle them..

K: I think we were all together basically today.

R: I don't think anyone has any illusions about it. Are you leaving?

K: No, I am going early next week.

R: I am too. I think I will go Tuesday night. If you want a ride I think we have a Jetstar. Late Tuesday, about 9 to 9:30. I will check in with you and if you are interested...

K: Great. I haven't fixed it yet definitely.

R: Fine, Henry.

ms

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Secretary Laird
11/7/70 10:30am

L: That memo of July 8 on the so-called strategy for the 1970s . . .

K: What strategy?

L: On national security forces for the 70s. Dated July 8.

K: Yes, I'll look it over . . . in connection with the budget. Oh yes, I remember it . . . I remember it well.

L: The stuff for the DPRC came along well, but there should have been more emphasis on the economic aspects. This concerns me as a a politician as well as in the field of national security. We've got it in the fifth place for the DPRC and it should be in first.

K: We ought to raise it in a smaller forum. We should raise it with the DPRC but then in a smaller group with just the principals.

L: I have got a follow-up report which gives the tough decisions. I would like to give one copy to you and one to the President but not send it all over my department. Only Dave and I have worked on this. It puts the hard, tough decisions on SALT, Safeguard . . . down. Maybe I'll deliver it to you Monday morning. I'll have Bill Baroody deliver yours and the Presidents to you. It gets into force structure and restructuring ABM.

K: We have got to reevaluate ABM. We've got one rationale for what we request and another for SALT.

L: And they are getting further apart all the time. I've got that in this paper. I don't want these questions I'm raising though scattered around the government.

K: We'll handle it like we did the July 8 one. I'll take it down to the President myself. The whole issue of missile survivability under SALT has got to be handled.

L: And force structure is another thing we've got to look at.

K: We've got to ask these questions.

L: I've got them and some recommendations. I'm sure there will be disagreement on them, but I want to hand them out so you and the President will be aware of the inconsistencies.

By KCL NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Secretary Laird

11/7/70 10:30 a.m. page 2

K: I think the best way to handle it is for you, and President and I to decide on a general direction and then put it to the staff.

L: I've spent hours and hours getting this ready, but I didn't want to put it in the DPRC.

K: No, that's too large.

L: I'll send it over Monday morning.

By KHLW NARA, Date 5/13/04

Telecon
Ambassador Sullivan

11/7/70 11:30 a.m.

S: Did you see David Bruce's incoming?

K: No.

S: He came in with a long cable saying he will, of course, carry out his instructions, but goes on for seven paragraphs to say why he doesn't want to.

K: I don't know what people do with my cables. Just a minute.
... They're looking for it. What was his recommendation?

S: That he be permitted to go and that ... let me just read part of it: "I believe the best way to assess the rhetoric would be to attend the next session ... would not propose to walk out or refuse to set another date ..." He thinks the record is more important than reacting this time.

K: He has however asked for the other delay?

S: He did not say anything about it. ... He's not appealing that; he's only appealing this other one.

K: Well, he is in Walkers Key today ...

S: The Secretary isn't back yet -- he's in New York.

K: What number is the cable?

S: USDEL 15435.

K: I will talk to the Secretary and then we can both talk to the President.

S: The Secretary won't be back till 3:00 this afternoon.

K: We have got the Ky thing.

S: Yes, and I saw Bui Diem and he is a little crestfallen that it is going to be only a breakfast rather than something more significant. He asked if the Vice President could give a dinner. He I've checked with Mike Dunn and the Vice President is supposed to be in Palm Springs at that time. Dunn thinks to get him to change that it would take a request from you or the President. Mike said he thought your name would be useful.

By KML NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Ambassador Sullivan

11/7/70 11:30 a.m. page 2

K: That's right. I agree with that.

S: One other thing. Ed Gullion called me yesterday. His brother is dying in Saigon. Ed wants invitational orders to go over and see him. I talked with Defense and Packard's office can give him orders only if they have some other reason.

K: Let's gin something up for him.

S: I told him I would try to get a White House reason. Can I say you want him to go out and look at the situation?

K: Okay, as long as we both agree. It's tough to suffer from well-founded paranoia.

S: Then what we want is a joining White House/State assessment.

K: That's fine.

By KCLW NARA, Date 5/13/04

*

TELCON
President/Kissinger
3:40 pm 11/9/70

K: I wanted to call about 2 things. The Soviets are releasing the two generals about now. Dobrynin came in and gave me advance warning. As you know, he came in on Thurs. The NVN responded very weakly to our postponement of the meeting. In fact the pre-empted us. They said they were never clear on the date. We said we had given the 9th but suggested the 16th instead. So they came back and said the 16th is okay. They have something to tell us but we don't know if it's good or bad. Lots of communication traffic and plane traffic. We told Bruce to knock off the public meeting but he feels against it. He feels we shouldn't let ourselves look peevish. The casualties this week are 31.

P: They are really holding down. Is the Laird plan going forward? When does that come off?

K: 21st - 25th.

P: I thought so. It's worth a try. I want to look at it again in terms of the mickey mouse way they were talking. It's like football, if you fake you have to have the bait. You have to bang them.

K: We asked that the plans be sent over.

P: Unless you really make the fake look real, it won't work. Regardless of what happens, it's what to do. It won't deter them or the negotiation. Their pattern hasn't changed.

K: Any decision they have made is in terms of weakness. They had an election in Germany which saved the Brandt coalition. The Social Democrats were told to vote for ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?. That would be worked out all together. The other vote went up which is an odd coincidence. The Christian Democrats gained.

P: 'Let him sit there awhile. Come down after his Chile? ...

K: We have put out directives on Friday. Their propaganda is stepping up against us but nothing overt.

P: After making the statement he did ?? ?? ?? ?? it's as cold as that. Helms has to get to these people. Get out of it now.

K: We have made that clear.

P: Re-scheduling of debts comes up when?

K: Early next year. We have put in the instructions at the NSC meeting into

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

President/Kissinger

3:40 pm 11/9/70

-2-

K: (cont) the directive. I am holding a meeting on Chile in the Sr. Review Group every 3 weeks.

P: I feel strongly this line is important regarding its effect on the people of the world. If he can prove he can set up a Marxist anti-American policy, others will do the same thing.

K: It will have ______ effect even in Europe. Not only Latin American.

P: On the foreign policy world, we are doing well. Casualties down. Soviets playing games on Cuba thing and Jordan cannot be mentioned. We are doing well.

K: All the newspaper comment on the foreign side is good.

P: Rogers Morton made a good point yesterday. Someone said didn't this campaign ? ? ? ? ?. He said on the contrary, it united the country. Tunney and Kennedy riding around on police cars and wearing police badges.

K: Good comment.

P: They all jumpted on the band wagon on that. The unity thing we have moved around. The other party is back bringing up the economic policy.

K: They are trying to get on the foreign policy band wagon. Reston said foreign countries should not underestimate our unity.

P: I think you will find a hell of a lot not voting against Defense.

K: We are in good shape. I will see you the middle of the week.

P: Fine.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E1-1258
By CHOWRA DATE 9-1-70

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Ambassador Dobrynin

11/9/70; 6:52 p.m.

K: I have spoken to the President in Key Biscayne and he wanted me to express to you that he thought it was a most constructive step and appreciated the spirit in which it was taken. We are looking at the other matter that concerns you.

D: Okay, thank you for calling. You will make a statement?

K: We will make a statement tomorrow morning and so will the State Department.

D: The other thing, we will discuss it when you come back?

K: Which other thing?

D: That other thing you mentioned in the first part.

K: Oh, yes. There is a technical -- I will let you know as soon as we come to a conclusion. It will not be before I come back. I wanted you to know that it is being looked at actively at the highest level.

D: Okay.

11/9/70; 6:57 p.m.

K: Sorry to keep bothering you. In view of the fact that somebody has leaked it to a Congressman that they are being released, we are making a statement today that we have been notified they are being released and the President says this is a very positive contribution to US/Soviet relations.

D: Okay.

feg

Telcon (Tape)

Bill Hyland

November 10, 1970; a.m.

(Began in mid-sentence)

K: ..... stands. Just where the hell we are now. Are you telling me
that Ziegler is going to release a letter to Pompidou before we even send it?

H: No, no.

K: Then why did he ask to have it. Just explain to me the reasoning that
makes our Press Secretary more important than Pompidou.

H: We just simply wanted to send him the change, so that he'd have the
same text we had.

K: OK, well all right. Now, I'm counting on the fact that this text is on
the machine. Now. Is that correct? We are not horsing around once more.

H: The text to Pompidou is going out now.

K: Now. OK.

H: We also have a message to Madame De Gaulle that should go too, just
as a matter of courtesy.

K: What we have to have now is the statement.

H: OK

K: The next thing we have to have is the... Have we informed them that we
are coming?

H: Not yet.

K: Why not? How about that two-line sentence?

H: OK. Here's a message to...

K: I'm not mad at you. I'm mad at our spending four hours spinning wheels
and not having it. You did the best you could.

H: Here's the message I would send to Pompidou. The second message.
"It is my intention to attend the memorial service for General De Gaulle. I am
instructed Ambassador Watson to contact your staff to make whatever arrange-
ments are necessary." And we could add a sentence saying, "Accept again,

DECLASSIFIED

MJD F.O. 12958
 Authority
By - NARA Date 6/1/04

Telcon - Hyland - 11/10 (Contd)

-2-

Mr. President, the deepest sympathy ..."

K: Yes. Can we make the beginning just a little warmer? Say, "I
would like to use this means to let you know that it is my intention", or
something.

H: Yes. "I would like to inform you personally .."

K: Yes. "That it is my intention..."

H: "...it is my intention to attend the memorial service for General De Gaulle."

K: Right.

H: OK. And I will send that now.

K: All right. Now, let's get the god damn statement once more, at the
point where it stopped why don't you put in something like, "He
provided inspiration to an age always in danger of being overwhelmed
by the commonplace..."

H: "...always in danger of being overwhelmed by the commonplace."

K: And then what do you have? Let's use one or two of your sentences.

H: I have this. "His passing was not only a loss for the French nation, but for all..."

K: "And therefore his passing was not only a loss for the French nation, but for all mankind."

H: "but for all mankind." We could stop at that point.

K: Right. Stop at this.

H: Do you want to say, "All Americans salute his memory" or just end it there.

K: Just stop at this point.

H: OK

K: OK. Now read the whole thing again.

H: Let me make sure I've got your sentence

K: (Repeated above sentence.) Now read the whole thing again.

DECLASSIFIED
MJD F-O 12958
Authority
By NARA Date 6/1/04

Hyland

H: The passing of General Charles De Gaulle reminds us of the qualities that make men and nations great. His was the quality of character that enables men to surmount all obstacles, to call up reserves of courage, to turn adversity into triumph. His was the quality of vision that could see the grand sweep of history at a time when others focused only on the events of the moment.

K: When others focused on the events. Leave out "only".

H: On the events of the moment. His was the quality of fortitude to translate that vision into reality.

K: Take that out.

H: OK. He provided inspiration to an age always in danger of being overwhelmed by the commonplace and therefore his passing is not only a loss for France but for all mankind. Period

K: Yes. That's not much. But it will do. At least we've got the puking stuff out.

H: We will go with that then?

K: Right.

H: And we'll send this to Ziegler and he'll...

K: Now if I am any judge of Ziegler, he's going to release the letter to Pompidou before it's even there.

H: OK. We'll call him and make sure he gives it some time, so it will at least be in France. OK?

K: Right. OK.

H: And we're sending the second message to Pompidou informing him that the President's coming.

K: Right. Now, how are we going to send the letter to Pompidou. We might as well send it...

H: Both on the Hot Line.

K: OK.

H: That's the fastest way. So we can go with both of them.

Hyland Telcon

-4-

K: OK. But go, will you. And don't clear with anyone internally now.
Just get the god damn thing out.

H: OK, and then we'll

K: Above all, don't clear with Ziegler.

H: No, no.

K: We're not run by him yet.

H: OK. We'll just inform him that these two messages have gone.

K: That is right, and give a time when he can release them. He can release
the public statement immediately. Let's at least give Pompidou two hours.
But it's probably too late.

H: OK

K: Goodbye.

DECLASSIFIED
MJD EO 12558
By NARA Date 6/10/68

["Telecon\nMr. Kissinger\nGeneral Haig\n11/10/70\n(tape)", "K: Al, we've got big affairs of state on our minds. Can you find out what the goddamn dress is before we have a conniption.", "H: I have, sir. I've just talked to Ambassador Watson. He said they have not made a decision. It's one of two alternatives and he should be prepared for both and I gave this to Dwight. One is business suit and the other is a swallowtail coat. KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger/General Haig

11/10/70

-2-

K: Al, it isn't the first time that you - he's got something to do. He wants McBride fired. When the two-year terms up put him on the list but lets go easy on it. He's a decent guy.

H: Alright, sir.

K: Okay? Alright I will be in if I ever get him off the phone. Rogers is pouting and I don't know about what.

H: I took care of the other. I told Dwight Bob was in the other room AND

K: That's okay.

H: Okay.

MJD F.O. 12958
DECLASSIFIED
Authorized
By ____ NARA Date 6/10/70

feg

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
General Haig

11/10/70 (tape)

K: Has this gone down to . . .

H: Yes, sir, it has gone. The letter has gone, the message has gone to Paris notifying that the President is coming.

K: And the letter to Pompidou?

H: Yes, the letter on the hotline.

K: Okay, now get all of that over to Ted Eliot after I have talked to Rogers.

H: All right, sir.

K: I've got a call in to him. He is on the way in to the office.

H: Dwight called and said that they definitely want to postpone Echeverria by one day.

K: I know, I have just talked to the President.

H: So we will have to get that started.

K: I am always glad we are doing internal Chapining and Zieglering.

H: No, no (laughter). I've always . . .

K: I've never seen anything like this.

H: I'm only trying to tell you what to tell Rogers.

K: Right. But that will be in Washington then.

H: Yes.

K: Is he going back to Key Biscayne?

H: No, he said Washington.

K: I know, but is he going back after the lunch.

H: Oh, I don't know sir. I haven't gotten... I will check it.

MJD F.O. 12958
DECLASSIFIED
Author
By NARA Date 6/10/70

-2-

K: Okay.

H: You know that there are a lot of questions that are going to come up.

K: He will not see members of the delegation. What, is Ziegler bugging you again?

H: No.

K: I think it would be much better if we could sleep in Paris. We will all be dead if. . .

H: That's what I thought. There is a question of whether you leave late tomorrow night and travel all night and then spend the night there Thursday and come back early Friday morning.

K: That's insane. That makes Friday insanity. It's a 8x nine hour flight back.

H: Right. So now you have that problem or you have the problem of . . .

K: With whom are you associating this one . . .

H: Nobody -- you. I am asking you. You said . . .

K: My feeling is and not only my feeling his request is that we leave about five or six o'clock on Thursday. That would get us in here at 9:00 and give us a night's sleep.

H: Right.

K: That's the thing we should do. Then the only question is do we fly overnight or do we arrive in time to get some . . . well, actually there is no good way of arriving because if we leave at 5:00 plus six. No, we either leave in the morning. We either leave tomorrow morning or we will be flying at night.

H: That's right, sir. That is the problem.

K: Well, why don't you have Chapin put that to him? If we leave at 12:00 -- if we leave as late as 11:00 we will still make it in time to get some sleep there.

MJD F.O. 12958
DECLASSIFIED
Authorized
By NARA Date 6/1/04

MJA F.O. 12958
AUTHORitatIve
By - NARA Date 6/1/04

-3-

H: If you left at 11:00 tomorrow morning

K: We'd be in there about 7:00, now wait a minute. We'd be in -- it's a six hour flight -- we'd be in at 5:00 it would be 11:00.

H: 11:00 at night.

K: Yes, but that is alright.

H: It's not really that late for you.

K: Yes, so there we could get some sleep. I think that is the thing to do.

H: I think it is the best way.

K: Or, even if we left at Noon.

H: Right.

K: Why don't you work it on that basis? Otherwise we will have to fly at night but even then we are better off coming back in the afternoon because otherwise the next day will be brutal.

H: That's XXX exactly right. You either do it all brutally . . .

K: You gain nothing by sleeping overnight in Paris except kill yourself again Friday.

Wednesday night

H: You have your choice sleeping there/or travelling. That's the only choice you have. You have to return Thursday afternoon to make Friday manageable.

K: Right. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

H: I was just offering the two options.

H: Yes, but tell them on the whole it is better to go Wednesday morning. Okay, fine. Let's see now. He wants Rogers to come along -- if he wants to. He doesn't want a delegation of Senators.

H: Alright. He does not.

K: Right, but I don't think that's necessary.

H: NO.

K: Okay, fine. Thank you.

feg

H: Right, sir.

K: He is now worried about clothes. Can you get all the details from the French Embassy?

H: Right, sir.

K: From our Embassy in France. And, Echeverria, you know hot-shot Haldeman again thinks it is great TV over there and he ought to stay as long as possible.

H: Yes, they are talking about an extra day.

K: No, he's got to get the hell out of there.

H: That's my own view.

K: We will be the laughing stock of Europe.

H: Sure. Alright, sir, I think it is much neater to go in.

K: It's not much neater, it's the only possible thing to do.

H: Fine, I am with the same view.

K: You just tell Haldeman, now, for Christ's sake this isn't selling soap.

H: That's right. In and out formally do his job and get out.

K: You should be there only for the funeral -- anything else is going to detract from it.

H: Alright.

K: And to do it with dignity. I mean what is he going to do on Friday if he stays there?

H: What Dwight said was that they would try to get a meeting with Pompidou which, of course, is stupid with all these heads of state in there -- it's just not the time for that.

K: They can get a meeting with Pompidou anyway for a half an hour...

MJD F.O. 12958
DECLASSIFIED
Authorized
By NARA Date 6/9/1970

-2-

H: On the day.

K: On the day.

H: Sure.

K: He won't have it any other way.

H: Right.

K: You should have a 20 minute -- he can leave as late as 7:00 and still get in here at 10:00

H: Right. Now, he is thinking of coming back this afternoon.

K: That's okay.

H: And leaving from Washington tomorrow morning about 10:00 or 11:00.

K: That's fine.

H: Alright, now, is Rogers going.

K: I can't get the son-of-a-bitch to a telephone. He's probably sulking away over there.

H: Alright, they don't want Mrs. Rogers if.

K: No wives are going -- I've already explained that to all of them. Why do they always go through everything five more times?

H: In case it came up, I didn't know...

K: Above all, will you tell Haldeman not to jazz the goddamned thing up.

H: Alright, sir

K: And that the only thing to do at a State funeral is to go in and out. That if he lingers at all it will look wrong.

H: Yes, I will, I will get that word down right away.

MJD F-O 12958
DECLASSIFIED
 Authority
By - NARA Date 6/1/04

H

K: The only thing that would be considered is to call on Madame de Gaulle at Colombey ________, but that's a three or four-hour car trip both ways.

H: And I think the interment is simultaneous with the memorial.

K: Yes, but he could go out there after the memorial service, you see. But don't even suggest it, will you because by the time these hot-shots get through with this, I shudder to think what they will do.

H: Like the great train robbery.

K: And we mustn't turn it into something ludicrous. Don't you think?

H: Well, that's my view. I agree with everything you say. I think it is just not appropriate and it's a funeral and that's it.

K: Well, why don't we set Echeverria for Friday or Saturday, either way, that's what he just said.

H: Okay, I've got Arnie right here and he's got the message prepared on that.

K: But, can somebody check with our Embassy in Paris -- we've got to stop that Middle East meeting for this morning, what do you think.

H: I think you better, Henry -- it's just too much.

K: And tell them we may schedule it tomorrow morning or this afternoon. But I want to meet with that Harvard group -- okay, fine.

feg

DECLASSIFIED

MJD F.O. 12958
Author

By NARA Date 6/1/04

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/General Haig

November 10, 1970

K: I just talked to Watson, the goddamm French, of course, are all unreachable.

H: Uh-huh.

K: In a highly civilized and organized country. But he strongly recommends that we come to the memorial service on Thursday.

H: Right.

K: And uh, that will have to be it then.

H: Yeah, I think he would have to leave probably tomorrow night with the 12 hours clock time, 13 clock hours. Uh, then he would certainly want to ....

K: Now look, let's not worry about the goddamm nitpicks, whether he leaves tomorrow night or at noon or when.

H: Well, I'm thinking in terms of Echeverria and what will have to be done there.

K: Well he certainly can't need to make a lunch on Thursday.

H: No, absolutely.

K: We can switch it to Friday in Washington.

H: Right.

K: But Watson thinks we ought to announce it right away and also put it on the hot line to Pompidou.

H: All right.

K: Now have we got a message to Pompidou?

H: Yes, a letter.

K: Well, have we got it, is it ready?

H: Yes it's all ready.

MJD 12958
DECLASSIFIED
Author
By NARA Date 6/9/70

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/General Haig

November 10, 1970

K: Now do you think these great brains we've got could possibly get these 4 sentences of a public statement finished?

H: Yes.

K: After 3 hours of work?

H: Well, this is this goddamm speech writer exercise we go through, they all think they are going to make the history books by what they write.

K: Yes, but the point that I'm making is I don't care about the feelings of other elements of the bureaucracy, I care about results.

H: Well, of course, but you ....

K: What would it do if we had a decent statement, nothing. They would scream and yell.

H: Yeah.

K: Has this gone back to the speech writer now?

H: No, absolutely not, absolutely not, he's had his crack.

K: Hell, I can do it in 5 minutes if you would just send somebody out to the house with the stupid thing, I just can't do it in my head without having the text in front of me. Well, all right now, I'm going to call the President and just confirm it again and then please let's have the goddamm statement ready and then let Ziegler be ready to go and say we are going so that we don't follow every African state in our action.

H: Well no, that's the important thing....

K: I don't care about the public statement, no one will count that, but I want to be among the first to announce that we're going.

H: Yeah. Well, he's standing by for that decision.

K: Al, we've got to hook it to something. The best thing would be if we could send on the hot line a statement to Pompidou, a letter to Pompidou in which we announce it.

H: All right, we have a letter, we'll add a ......

DECLASSIFIED
MJD E0 12958
Author
By NARA Date 6/4/04

Telecon
Conference Call
Mr. Kissinger, General Haig
Kevin Donoghue, Situation Room
Bill Hyland - 11-10-70 (Tape)

K: Hello.

H: Uh, Henry? Alright, Kevin is ready to read this and I have Hyland and myself on. Kevin, do you want to read the statement again.

D: Yes, sir. "A giant of our times has fallen. The passing of General DeGaulle reminds us of the qualities that make men and nations great. His was the quality of character that enables men to surmount the greatest obstacles, refuse to recognize defeat and call off personal reserves with courage that turn defeat into victory."

K: Leave out personal for one thing.

D: Pardon me, sir.

K: Leave out the word "personal" just reserves with courage.

D: Yes, sir.

K: Is Saffire there?

D: No, he is not.

K: Okay, go ahead.

D: "His was the quality of vision that could see the grand sweep of history at a time when most men focus only on the events of the day. Because Charles de Gaulle had his vision of history and because he had the determination to turn his own vision into reality he could act in a way that changed the course of the history of his nation and the world. I think shall never forget the hours spent with him over the years and the opportunity..."

K: Hold on a second, I think that is the French Ambassador. I will call you right back.

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H: Hello

K: That was the French Ambassador.

H: Okay. Ready?

K: Who is this?

H: This is Haig, Kevin and Hyland.

K: Go ahead.

D: "I shall never forget the hours spent with him over the years and the opportunity he gave me to share his vision and gain his counsel. All Americans will remember the powerful..."

K: I would take out his "I's" -- what he doesn't so important right now. I think that is too self-serving.

H: Okay.

K: While we are at it, let's take that first platitudinous sentence out -- "A giant of our times has fallen."

H: I agree. Fine

K: Is that you Safire?

H&D: No, Safire is not here.

D: Now, I have stricken "I" -- how shall we replace it, with "we" or

K: No, just leave out those two sentences.

D: Okay, fine. "All Americans will remember the powerful presence of this man of tall stature and towering integrity."

K: Jesus!

D: "...who showed the world how one man with a dream and a drive could make an abiding difference. General de Gaulle a living legend in his own time will be an enduring inspiration to future generations of men who honor patriotism and cherish freedom and who value the luster of a leader who came to be a simple symbol of the greatness of his nation.

K: Oh, Jesus!

Continued

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EXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXKXKXUK

H: That's awful.

K: Jesus

D: Tht's Hyland saying that.

?: "legend" is terrible.

K: Well, there is no platitude except God is love that's out of it. Leave out the last two sentences, too!. Now, can you say something simple like, something to the effect that of course we grieve for the people of France but it isn't a loss for France alone because at a time that has never needed inspiration and greatness more, he symbolized it and therefore his loss is not the loss of France alone because he belonged as well to all of us -- something like that. Something simple.

H: Right, sir.

K: I hold no particular brief for these words, but something along these lines that doesn't use that fantastic rhetoric.

H: Oh, boy!

K: This man can't be imbellished by these platitudes. Bill, can you try a few sentences like that at the end and...

Hyland: Yeah.

K: And take at the patronizing quality.

Hyland: I, yeah, yeah.

K: And let Ziegler scream, goddammit. What are people going to say that he missed his goddamned deadline by 15 minutes. They know we are not throwing our hat in the air.

Hyland: Could I read you what I wrote -- or do you care?

K: I don't care but go ahead. Read me in the best Sonnenfeldt tradition.

Hyland: No, I thought. . .

K: You know I don't care, go ahead.

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Hyland: That you would say that we mourn the passing or something like that but then say, "France's darkest hour this courageous soldier took up the cross of Lorraine and bore it for the people of France. Charles de Gaulle was not only a soldier of France -- he was a statesman of vision. A vision of greatness...

K: Wait a minute, now, may I make a suggestion to you, Bill. When you say a soldier of France but a statesman of vision that means no soldier of France has any vision.

Hyland: "Was not only a soldier of France was also a statesman of vision."

K: Go ahead.

K: Well.

Hyland: Well.

K: Was not only a soldier, otherwise it sounds as if the ______ of the French soldier never had vision.

Hyland: Okay. A vision of greatness which sustained the French nation in war and peace. And Charles de Gaulle was a patriot who sought no higher goal than to serve his country. We salute his memory and mourn his passing.

K: Yeah, well, I like the first two sentences. I think the point to get across is that here was a great man -- two or three points I think we ought to get across. One is that in our age he reminds us what one can do with inspiration and faith and courage and therefore he transcended all odds and all difficulties and this is a quality that is not peculiar to France that is not only necessary for France but for the whole world -- something like that. It shouldn't -- the testimony shouldn't be simply to a great French parochial leader.

Hyland: Yeah, I see what you mean.

K: See what I mean. But I like the tone of yours a hell of a lot better.

Hyland. Well, okay, let us ...

K: The only thing is ...

Hyland: We will see if we can blend Saffire...

K: Take a few of these Safireisms, cut it down.

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K: Al? What do you think.

H: Yes, Sir. No, that's what I would do. I would take Safire's first paragraph -- the first sentence out. And then maybe his second and then pick up ...

K: Well, since I don't have the goddamned thing in front of me that doesn't tell me anything. Read me the first paragraph.

H: Leave the first...

K: Well, read it to me.

D: Okay. "The passing of General de Gaulle reminds us of the qualities that make men and nations great. His was the quality of character that enables men to surmount the greatest obstacles, to refuse to recognize defeat and call off reserves with courage that turn defeat into victory. His was the quality of vision that could see the grand sweep of history at a time when most men focused only on the events of the day. Because Charles de Gaulle had his vision of history and because he had the determination to turn his own vision into reality he could act in a way that changed the course of the history of his nation and the world."

K: Well, that word history appears about 25 times. Okay, what else?

D: All Americans will remember the powerful presence of this man of tall stature and towering integrity who showed the world..."

K: You can't say tall stature for Christ sake.

Hyland: Can't we go right at that point to this last one about ...

K: Absolutely

Hyland: His loss is not the loss of France but ...

K: With a few sentences but let's clean up that paragraph a little bit, too. First of all, the first sentence -- read me that new first sentence

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K: No, no, go back to the beginning of the statement.

D: The passing of General de Gaulle reminds us of qualities that make men and nations great. His was the quality of character that enables men to surmount the greatest obstacles, to refuse to recognize defeat and call off reserves with courage that turn defeat into victory.

K: Leave out to refuse to recognize defeat.

D: HIs was the quality of vision that could see the grand sweep of history at a time when most men focused only on the events of the day. Because Charles de Gaulle had his vision of history and because he had the determination to turn his own vision into reality he could act in a way that changed the course...

K: That sentence goes, too.

Hyland: We can fix that up.

K: You can't fix it up, just take the goddamned thing out and put in what I just gave you.

Hyland: Alright.

K: But then don't put anything out until you read it to me again.

Hyland: Yes.

K: I don't care what Ziegler says, Al.

H: Alright.

K: He is not my boss.

H: Oh, no, that's alright.

K: And if he has to wait a half an hour -- he's got to wait a half an hour. We are not going to make laughing stocks of the world out of us, with a pompous statement. All we need is five or six sentences.

H: That's what I thought in the first place.

Hyland: Okay, let us do another draft.

K: Do a quick draft, will you? Good. Thank you.

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TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Hyland/Haig

November 10, 1970

K: Hello

H: The public statement. The passing of General Charles De Gaulle reminds us of the qualities that make men and nations great, his was the quality of character that enables men to surmount the greatest obstacles, to call up reserves of courage to turn.....

K: I told you I don't want to turn defeat into victory.

H: And to call up reserves of courage period.

K: No, no, there was another sentence that I wanted, Oh Jesus. Look you dropped the wrong clause.

H: Oh. I thought you wanted ______ to refuse to recognize defeat.

K: Oh, all right, to turn defeat into victory, I think it's an ungracious thing to say.

H: Oh.

K: You don't want to remind the French of a defeat.

H: Okay, to call up reserves of courage to achieve victory.

K: Oh God, if you think that 4 hours we've spent on this crude.

H: You want to go on?

K: Read that sentence again, now we're going to get it done now.

H: His was the quality of character that enabled men to surmount the greatest obstacles, to call up reserves of courage to achieve victory.

K: To turn adversity into triumph or something like that.

H: To turn adversity into triumph. His was the quality of vision that could see the grand sweep.....

K: Oh Jesus.

H: At a time when others....

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Bill Hyland

November 10, 1970

K: How about God is love and Gentlemen, please wash your hands before leaving this room?

H: I thought you wanted this Safrie stuff.

K: No, go ahead.

H: His was the quality of vision that could see the grand sweep of history at a time when others focused only on the events of the moment. His was the quality afforded to translate that vision into reality. His passing is not only a loss for...

K: Oh, what?

H: His passing is not only a loss for the French nation but for all nations.

K: That all?

H: No, one more sentence.

K: That is not what I wanted, please type the goddamm thing up, send it out to my house and I'm going to write it, there was three sentences I gave you all. I'm sorry to be so impatient but if we knew at 4:15 and we come up with some sophomoric stuff it's really awful. I'm not blaming you Bill, it's just unbelievable that with a speech writer staff we do nothing better than that. Can't we say something to the effect, as what I said to you before, at this moment, when what this period needs above, what we need above is something to lift us above ourselves, what he stood for was not something that was an inspiration to France alone and his passing therefore is not only a void for his country because in a deep sense he belonged to all of us, something like that, something that shows just an ounce of thought, that couldn't have been written by a sophomore doing a term paper. I mean this could be written by a senior doing a term paper.

H: What he stood for was not an inspiration for France alone. At this moment what we need is something....

K: No, no, nevermind, I'll write it, I'll call you, read the other sentence.

H: That's it.

K: Read the other paragraph, I mean read the other letter.

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TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Bill Hyland

November 10, 1970

K: God Almighty.

H: The Pompidou, to Pompidou. I was deeply shocked and grieved at the passing of General De Gaulle. This country knew General De Gaulle as a steadfast ally in war and a true friend in peace. France's loss is our loss, the people of France and you, Mr. President, have the heartfelt sympathy of all Americans in your hour of mourning.

K: That's a steadfast friend in peace. Can we put in a sentence saying greatest knows no national boundaries?

H: Yeah, we can say France's loss is our .....

K: Greatness.

H: Greatness knows no national boundaries....

K: No, not bulk, France's greatness knows no national boundaries and therefore ....

H: France's loss is our loss.

K: France's loss is a loss of mankind.

H: Greatness knows no national boundaries, therefore, France's loss is the loss of mankind.

K: Okay, fine. You let that one go.

Haig: Are you going to add a sentence about being at the.....

K: I think we should do that a separate message.

Haig: All right sir, fine.

H: A separate message from the President.

K: From the President but if we could reduce the clearances of that to 386 people so that we can get it out by this evening, I'd appreciate it. Send the message on the hot line saying I beg to inform you that, whatever one says, that I'm planning to attend the memorial service at Nortredame whenever it is, on Thursday. When is it? Is that the 12th? November 12 My ambassador will be in touch with your officials to make the detailed arrangement. Okay, read that crude again of the other stuff, will you?

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TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Bill Hyland/Gen. Haig

November 10, 1970

Hy: All right. The passing of General De Gaulle reminds us of the qualities that make men and nations great. His was the quality of character that enabled men to surmount the greatest obstacles, to call up reserves of...

K: You can't use great in two different sentences. All obstacles...

Hy: ... to surmount all obstacles, to call up reserves of courage, to turn adversity into triumph. His was the quality of vision that could see the grand sweep of history at a time when others focused only on the events of the moment. His was the quality of fortitude to translate that vision into reality. Now at this point we fall off.

K: Then go ahead. Then what would you have?

Hy: Then I have his passing is not only a loss for the French nation but for all nations. He was not only an inspiration to France but ______ to the world for what men can achieve through faith and courage. All Americans will salute this great [warrior's ?] passing.

K: Well, let me try two sentences, I'll call you back.

[End of Tape]

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TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/ Bill Hyland

November 10, 1970

K: Hello, Bill.

H: Yeah

K: Have you got that message off to Pompidou?

H: Yeah, it just went down with the change you made to Key Biscayne, do you want to send ....

K: The message to Pompidou is to go this second, what the hell is it going to Key Biscayne for?

H: Well, Ziegler wanted to check since we made a change in it and added your statement about greatness.

K: But gentlemen, are we going to get something to Pompidou or not or are we going to spin our wheels only with each other.

H: Okay, we're sending it now on the hot line.

K: Okay, now read me that other goddamm thing again, will you. The passing of General Charles De Gaulle reminds us of the qualities that make men and nations great. His was the quality of character that enabled men to surmount all obstacles, to call up reserves of courage, to turn adversity into triumph. His was the quality of vision that could see the grand sweep of history at a time when others focused only on the events of the moment .........

[end of tape]

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Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Ambassador Lucet
11-10-70 (Tape)

K: Hello

L: Hello

K: Hello, Charles, I need not tell you what we all feel at this moment.

L: Thank you, Henry.

K: And I wanted you to know also on behalf of the President that we are all thinking of you and, of course, the President would like to go to Paris and pay whatever respects he can.

L: And then to do what?

K: And to pay whatever respects are appropriate, As soon as you have made arrangements -- I don't know whether the memorial service will be only for ...

L: But you know, Henry, I was just learn this news during the night and I am just reading now---------------------------------- where he says he wants to be buried----------

K: Yes, my understanding is there is a memorial service at Notre Dame but it may only be again a local affair.

L: Oh, yes, that I don't know yet. But then it was very, very kind of you to call me.

K: This is not at the moment our principal problem so if you will, as soon as you know anything, keep in mind that we, out of friendship and admiration of course, want to do whatever we can do

L: Yes, so I am going to call Paris as soon as it is possible and get in touch with you.

K: Would you do that, Charles and also you know if you need any facilities here if we can help you with communications or anything else you -- call on my office, we are at your disposal.

L: Thank you very much. Because you have already been in touch with Paris?

11/10/70

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K: I have been in touch with our Ambassador.

L: Did he say there would be a memorial at Notre Dame?

K: He said the funeral service at Cholombey and that is indeed private and he said there will be a memorial service concurrently at Notre Dame which will be attended by ministers of the Government but he ...

L: No foreign dignitaries?

K: Well, he didn't know that.

L: Yes. So that is what I am going to check right away.

K: If you could check that right away. But, in addition, if you would let your President know we, of course, will send him a formal message.

L: __________ a formal message?

K: No, we are sending a formal message within a matter of hours but if you could let them know that on a very personal basis level how grieved the President is and how we are feel that this is not a loss for France alone but for the whole world.

L: Thank you very much, Henry. Thank you so much. I will call Paris and call you back as soon as I can.

K: Good, Charles. Goodbye.

L: You are so kind and I am deeply moved.

K: Goodbye.

feg

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Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
The President (Tape)

11/10/70

K: Mr. President, I just talked to Bill and I understand you had to...

P: Yeah, Yeah, I called him just to let him know that I wanted...and
he said that he would go with any staff, which is good.

K: Right, excellent.

P: I told him a security man. Now! I am just sitting here and I haven't
told Haldeman yet but I am not going to have the goddamned Secret Service
sitting in that pew with me. Now that's not done by any other Government
and I'm not going to have...

K: I think you are absolutely right.

P: If they are, I am firing the Secret Service. Now they have ruined
every rally picture with that and they are not going to do it here.

K: Well, I think you are absolutely right, Mr. President and also at the
Adenaur funeral they were so conspicuous that they became the laughing
stock.

P: At the Adenaur funeral -- I know, I know. When we went over there
they had 18 Secret Service all over the place. I am giving the orders
right now these son-of-a-bitches are not going to be there.

K: Right.

P: That's right. They aren't sons-of-bitches but they think law orders
them but by God in that French Cathedral we are either going to be safe
in it or they are going to blow it up -- one of the two. That's all there
is to it. We didn't/ So that's set and with Rogers I told him his security
man should go just for obvious reasons but he is not going to take any-
body else. The question of taking the Assistant Secretary was not
raised at all.

K: Excellent. I've had a dog with him. He's neutral about Bruce,
slightly against it.

P: He's against it and I think maybe he is right on the ground that it might
look like bringing Vietnam into it. Let's pass it, don't you think so?

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K: Well, I think Bruce is such a senior and distinguished diplomat but it...

P: The only thing is that I don't think we really need the extra person and I just feel myself that when we get in I will have a chance -- I want to see Bruce. When I get in we will have a nice midnight snack with him before going to bed.

K: I don't see that there is any reason to open overrule the Secretary on a thing like this.

P: No, no, no. I understand his concern on it. I have a little bit of the same feeling as to whether...

K: The only problem -- the only thing is you could have ECHEVERRIA in Key Biscayne on Friday if you wanted to go back down for the weekend.

P: No, I don't want to go back there come back here. We are going to have it in Washington. I want him up there.

K: Good, right.

P: And I want him Friday, noon.

K: You want it Friday now?

P: If it can be, yes.

K: Right, okay.

P: Because, we would come back on Thursday -- now I assume everything can be done Thursday -- the funeral, and if Pompidou sees us it will be in the afternoon, right?

K: That's right. He will see you for 15 minutes.

P: And then that's all we want. I will put in my call on Pompidou and then out we'll go and go right to the airport and off we will go.

K: They might have a reception for heads of state but you could go to that for a half an hour and still if you left as late as 7:00 you would still be in by...

P: Yes, 7:00 does it fine. You still get in by plenty of time. But, I would

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like to get the luncheon over with and tell him Friday.

K: Okay, Mr. President.

P: And we again know that in order to have it in the proper sense we will have it upstairs in the upstairs oval room as a reception.

K: Oh, that will be very nice.

P: The upstairs dining room so that they have the feeling that it is in the home.

K: That it is a family lunch.

P: You can tell them that we will have it in the family quarters in the White House.

K: Right.

P: So that he feels that he got a special treatment -- family quarters of the White House will be the deal. Now, who is going to call him? Are you going to have Meyer call him?

K: We've got that in train now. I think Meyer is calling him now.

P: I want McBride fired, you know. I don't want him fired before this visit, but he is to go.

K: Right.

P: The Ambassador down there.

K: Right.

P: I've got another man I want to put in that position. But put him on the list of those that have to go and I want you to be sure to get the list. Have you got your list to Haldeman yet of people who ought to go? I don't mean at the Assistant Secretary level I mean at the Ambassadorial level.

K: No, I haven't. I've got an Assistant Secretary -- I think Meyer ought to go.

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P: I agree.

K: I have a record of what he did on Chile which is unbelievable.

P: So, I think on the luncheon that's what we will do and I'll call Mrs. Nixon and inform her. Now, wait a minute. Can you find out from the damn Mexicans whether they are going to come Friday or not so that I can let her know because I don't want to turn her on and turn her off on this.

K: I will let you know right away.

P: Who calls?

K: I will call the Ambassador and get an answer.

P: Tell them I want to know and I have to know in ten minutes.

K: Okay, Mr. President

P: He can call the President and just tell him we want to shift it one day to the White House. We will fly him up and fly him back.

K: Right, Mr. President. We will get it done.

P: Okay, Henry.

feg

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Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
The President
11/10/70 (tape)

K: Mr. President.

P: Did you find out and I need to know this soon because we have to leave tomorrow morning, I've got to know whether to go back to Washington to get my stuff together, but or whether to have it sent here -- the question is have you found out whether, what the dress is for this affair?

K: No, we are checking into that. The French are at this moment in total chaos -- no one can reach anybody. But we are working on that, Mr. President.

P: My inclination is to dress formally. In other words, I think he would -- that's just the way he would do it. In other words I would tend to wear a morning coat.

K: I think that is probably right.

P: But I want Watson to know that -- so they don't get any ideas -- that while the goddamned Africans will come in their T-shirts or the funny things that they wear, I want to know what the custom is. My inclination would be to wear a morning coat or at least a club coat but I need to know right away what the situation is.

K: We are checking into that right now, Mr. President. One other thing, I don't know whether you want to bother with that, the choices of going would be to leave...

P: I just talked to Haldeman about it. We are going to go tomorrow morning.

K: Good, I think that is right.

P: I'm not going to go and fly all night in the airplane and my inclination on the Mexican dinner is to have it Saturday so that we can have a chance to rest a day in Paris. Well, if we don't rest we can come back a day and get rested -- whatever we want to do.

K: Right. Actually the way the time works it's best to come back and rest a day here. But, either way, Mr. President. . .

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P: Incidentally, my inclination would be to go over and get in around midnight which would be basically 6:00 our time -- we wouldn't want to sleep -- get in around midnight and do the drill. Call on Pompidou, if he wants to be called on.

K: I'm sure he will. No question about that.

P: Say hello to the widow if she wants to be called on.

K: Well, she will be in Colombey.

P: Oh, that's right. This is a memorial service.

K: The best thing probably would be to leave that evening because if you stay.

P: That's right you get caught in stuff.

K: You will have to do something else or ...

P: Leave that evening and then come back. The Mexican thing then can really be put on either time because I don't really give a damn. You know what I am going to talk to him about anyway. Has anybody been in touch with him?

K: Yes, we are doing that right now.

P: I put a call in to Bill just to be sure. . .

K: I have a call in, he is on his way to the office, in his car and I have left word to call -- that's the first thing he will do when he gets in. . .

P: I think probably it will be easier since I am here for me to come up there rather than have all of you fly down here but I guess you could all fly down here, too.

K: We can certainly do it, which ever way is easiest for you.

P: It's 81/2 hours from here, the flight times so in a sense it is really easier to fly up there.

K: It's 6-1/2 from here.

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P: No, from here it is 8-1/2 and 6-1/2 from Washington.

K: That's right, that's what I meant -- it's 6-1/2 from Washington and 8-1/2 from Key Biscayne.

P: It's an hour and half longer, so going from Washington really saves some time -- I mean it doesn't lose all the time that you would think.

K: That's right, but which ever is more convenient.

P: Well, I don't gain much from sticking around here.

K: You could probably leave in the morning, Mr. President and still -- if we leave as late as noon here, we'd still be in Paris by midnight so if you were to leave Key Biscayne at 9:00 in the morning, we could connect with you at 11:00 at Andrews.

P: Yeah, that's my inclination to go up tonight.

K: Yes, that's another possibility.

P: Alright, find out what the clothes are.

K: I will get that for you immediately.

P: Watson, I assume, can work that out.

K: No question, Mr. President.

P: But let's really keep it tight if there is any feeling about who goes on this thing -- I mean where everybody sits -- let's not insist that we have eight people walk in. I'll go in alone if that's necessary. Remember, de Gaulle did it at Eisenhower's funeral.

K: De Gaulle came alone to both Kennedy and Eisenhower, Mr. President, and I think when you and the Secretary of State go that's a much as should go.

P: What I mean, if you come in the whole damn ... the damn Africans come in with a whole damn delegation of 80 people, that just ruins the whole thing.

K: Exactly.

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P: I just think we ought to walk in...

K: I think it should be you alone or at most with Bill.

P: Yeah, well he will understand. They will probably have a place for Secretaries of State -- probably a place for heads of state.

K: Certainly, they will not seat you together.

P: Yeah, they didn't do that when he was here -- they didn't seat Secretaries of State with heads of State at the Eisenhower funeral.

K: That's correct.

P: This is just a memorial, hug?

K: Just a memorial service, Mr. President. But the service, I am sure, is essentially the same. It is just that the casket isn't there.

P: It will be a high Mass, I suppose -- that's what they do.

K: I would think, yes.

P: I went to one once. Alright.

K: Right, Mr. President, I will keep you informed.

feg

DECLASSIFIED
MJD F-O 12958
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By NARA Date 6/9/04

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Secretary Rogers
11/10/70 (tape)

K: Bill, how are you? I was trying to reach you and you were in transit and then you...

R: The President called me and I was talking to him.

K: Right. Well, you probably know then that he would like you to be on the delegation, if you felt like going, which is what I was calling you about to make sure so that I can announce it.

R: Fine.

K: The Echeverria thing -- we will try to move till Saturday.

R: He said Friday -- Saturday?

K: Well, they keep going back and forth. A minute ago he said Friday but now a minute ago they called up and said Saturday.

R: Well, just let us know. It doesn't make any difference to us -- whichever is better. I think on that one we better check it out so we are sure we don't get some other conflict.

K: Right, I think we ought to do essentially what they want.

R: Right.

K: And I think we ought to come right back from Paris, don't you.

R: Yeah.

(There was no more on the tape)

feg

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TELECON

Secretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger

? November 10, 1970 (TAPE)

K: Hello.

R: Hi, Henry.

K: I don't know whether you have seen those two cables from Bruce.

R: I heard about them. They are on the way out here. I was in New York, and I just got back.

K: The second one is particularly interesting, I think. I don't know whether... You know, they seem to have anticipated we'd do something like this, and send a man to the delegation suggesting that maybe they didn't have the date straight. So I think there won't be any problem now about shifting it.

R: Doesn't he object to the business about not going?

K: Yeah. Now the first one is his strong objection to his not going on Thursday, and I...

R: I think we should respect his views then.

K: That is exactly my view, Bill. It's not a big enough point, and we need his support, so my suggestion is, if the President's in Walker's Key, we'll wait till Monday and let him go ahead then.

R: I think so, too. We don't have to...

K: I'll see if he gets back on Monday. I don't think this is something we ought to do on the communications to Walker's Key.

R: No, I don't either.

K: But I am sure he'd go along with us. You know, he was fairly definite, but I think when he hears the whole story, I'm confident -- if you and I agree on it -- he'll go along.

R: Well, fine. Why don't, in the meantime, I send a cable to Bruce saying that we appreciate his views very much and will give sympathetic consideration to them and will be back in touch with him on Monday. How about that?

K: I think that's right. The way to proceed. But the other one is just interesting. It requires no action, but it suggests that there'll

MJD E0 12958
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November 10, 1970 (TAPE)

probably be no problem about shifting the date.

R: Good. I had a very interesting discussions with Riad and Eban in New York.

K: Riad wanted me to come up there. He got a message to me and I didn't do it.

R: I think there is a possibility of pulling something off here.

K: You do?

R: Uh huh.

K: Of what?

R: Well, I think they're going to... I think Israel will eventually agree to negotiations within a month or so.

K: I think that's probably right.

R: And then I think there's just a chance that we'll be able to work out a settlement.

K: Oh, really!

R: Well, when I say just a chance, you know, it's three to one, but I think it's possible. Egypt, I think, really wants a settlement. I had a very interesting talk with Riad, and he said, "Look, we've decided we need peace and we've got to take care of our own people and spend our money for their welfare."

K: Well, it's hard to imagine this group playing a pan Arab role.

R: I know. Well, I don't want to be too optimistic but I was quite encouraged.

K: Wonderful.

R: Okay, Henry, thank you.

K: Good, Bill.

MJD F.O. 12958
DECLASSIFIED
Authority
By NARA Date 6/1/67

MJD F.O. 12958
DECLASSIFIED
Autograph
By - NARA Date 6/4/04

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Amb. Watson

November 10, 1970

W: Hello

K: Hello

W: Yes Henry.

K: How are you?

W: I'm all right, it's very hard to get any information. One thing I do know is that no one is going to go to that country funeral.

K: Right.

W: But it sounds now, I'd like to recommend that the President announce there that he will attend the Nortredame services at 11:00 on Thursday.

K: Right.

W: I tried to get the protocol, I tried to get Joe Behr and the foreign office and it's impossible to get anybody. And now I just heard on the radio that some of the African countries have announced they are coming and I think the greatest nation in the world would be, in my judgment, be right to have the President announce he's coming and maybe send a message over the hot line to President Pompidou.

K: That he is coming.

W: Yeah.

K: All right, all right.

W: I've been trying to think my way through it Henry and try to say what are the negatives and even though...

K: No, he wants to come, if any Head of State comes, he'll come.

W: Well, the German Embassy, I just called them and they are recommending that both the Chancellor and President come. The Ivory Coast and Madagascar have announced they are coming and I've heard nothing from our other people but my inclination and those of my associates, my almost conviction is that there are gonna be a lot of people announcing they're coming.....

November 11, 1970

K: Right, we better get out a ....

W: We'd better get on the ball.

K: Okay.

W: That's my only feeling, I didn't mean to put it that way.

K: No, No, I think you are absolutely right. I'll call the President immediately.

W: All right sir.

K: We'll announce it, should we, you can assume that we will announce it, we'll get word to you concurrently.

W: All right, wonderful, I'll be right here in the office.

K: Right, thank you.

W: Thank you, Bye.

K: Bye.

[End of Tape]

DECLASSIFIED
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Mr. Kissinger/Prof. Yoshida

November 10, 1970

jlj

K: How are you?

Y: I am all right thank you, and you?

K: I am fine.

Y: I have come back to my office from the private meeting with my friend about three hours ago which lasted for about 3/4 of an hour. Based on the conversation I had with you last night, of your time, you can imagine what and how I have talked to him.

K: Of course.

Y: He knew the climate now being created in your place. My friend showed me the cable from our permanent representative.

K: Did it confirm what I had told you?

Y: Exactly. And the cable also states the detailed conversation held between the two experts expressing the grave concern of our own expert. Our own representative.

K: Yes, I know.

Y: And that confirmed precisely what you told me. Now, I had a really serious conversation with my friend. Let me tell you the following points. I myself fear that you yourself may no longer believe what I am going to tell you now.

K: No, No, I believe everything you are going to tell me.

Y: But this is exactly what my friend has just told me.

K: Right. No, I have no doubt in you at all.

Y: And I still believe my friend really means it and my friend really, honestly means it. Now, my friend has already given a firm instruction to Mr. M. to present to you our concrete counter proposal within 48 hours. The position paper, so-called position paper, last Monday was sent by Mr. M. to our representative without the knowledge of my own friend. It is apparently aimed at the political tactics for home consumption for our own industry at home. So my friend asks you not to take it seriously as it is not our counter proposal. Now, my friend just indicated to me what he told me last Thursday when I met with him for an hour last time and then I told you, that is he will honor his commitment to your friend. Today he looked relaxed and sounded optimistic for the prospects of

DECLASSIFIED
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-2-

reaching an agreement in time. In his mind he seems to have made up his own
mind and made his own decision knowing that will cost him heavy political
price at home. The question is the timing. And I warned him the timing was
very very short. He says that there is a Japanese way of getting things done
as far as our domestic political situation goes.

K: Of course.

Y: But at the end he himself is prepared to pay the necessary political price
for an agreement in time which I very strongly pleaded for. So I beg you that
would you be good enough to be patient for a few more days and I would like
you to tell or ask Mr. Flanigan, your assistant, to take the same attitude.

K: Right.

Y: I believe that you will be going away tomorrow, tomorrow morning.

K: Yes, we are going away.

Y: Mr. A. will be there too.

K: Oh yes.

Y: But he doesn't know in detail and this particular matter is being handled
smoothly without delay in his absence. That my friend told me.

K: Yes, well we have no intention of raising this issue.

Y: Pardon.

K: We will not discuss the issue when we see Mr. A, of course.

Y: Please not. And there is no need of that and without Mr. A. my friend
told me that things would go very smoothly.

K: Oh, is he the problem?

Y: No, No, he is not a problem at all. But he suddenly had to be away and
even in his absence there will be no difficulty of . . .

K: I understand.

Y: We can go ahead with this arrangement as I just told you.

K: Yes, well we will not discuss it with him in where we are going.

Y: You are quite right and there is no need and I think it better not to discuss
nor does it matter to him. You know, at the end of our conversation my friend
just mentioned this without and still, as our side is concerned, is no problem

DECLASSIFIED
MJD F.O. 12958
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DECLASSIFIED
MJD F.O. 12958
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in making necessary arrangements. So I don't know what to say more than
this.

K: No, well I think this is fine. And I will know what to do. And we can
do nothing anyway until the weekend because we won't be back.

Y: When would you be back?

K: Friday.

Y: Friday of your time.

K: Or Thursday night.

Y: Thursday night or Friday morning. I see. And in the meantime I hope
that your own expert - I can really imagine how outrageous he would have been.

K: Well, you see the trouble with our experts are reaching the point where
they prefer legislation to an agreement. So they are relaxed. For political
reasons we would be better off without an agreement.

Y: That's right.

K: And that is apparently what your people don't understand.

Y: Ya, I...

K: So we will relax and we will wait until we hear from you.

Y: Yes.

K: It's all right- but there are personal feelings that I described to you yesterday.

Y: I beg your pardon.

K: There are those feelings of - you know - that I described to you yesterday.
But there is no point in repeating those.

Y: You are quite right. I would like you to be a little more patient.

K: No, we will be patient. We will be patient until the end of this week.

Y: Yes, until you have our concrete counter proposal which
I told my friend must be ______ and bound to each agreement very quickly.
And my friend himself is not an expert. He has understood this matter much
better than he used to.

K: We have all learned a lot.

Y: He is going to do something definite.

K: I appreciate this and I appreciate the attitude you have taken throughout and I hope to see you soon.

Y: I would like to - of course I will be getting in touch with you again, but as soon as you have . . .

K: Incidentally if you have something urgent you can call my Washington number, they are always connected with me.

Y: Oh, I see. Otherwise I will get in touch with you and get to know the action of your to our forthcoming proposal.

K: Excellent.

Y: Goodby for now.

K: Goodby and I hope to see you soon. And I appreciate what you have done.

Y: Thank you.

K: Goodby.

DECLASSIFIED
 Authority MJO FO 12958
 By NARA Date 6/1/04

Telcon

Ron Ziegler

November 10, 1970, a.m.

Z: Henry. You have it?

K: No. You get the statement in about two minutes. It's being typed now and will come right down to you.

Z: Well, I'd rather have it dictated.

K: Well, it will be dictated to you.

Z: Who from.

K: I will get it dictated to you immediately. I just want to make sure of one thing. They have <u>given you</u> Kissinger the text of the letter to Pompidou.

Z: I'm not going to.... I would never do anything with anything unless I checked it with you.

K: Good. Because you might have misunderstood. Because that should reach there before you can release it.

Z: Oh, sure.

K: And release that around noon.

Z: Yeah. Or at the 11:00 or 11:30 briefing.

K: Good. But you will have the statement within five minutes.

Z: Who should we get it from? Julie?

K: No. Get it from Hyland who is in the Situation Room.

Z: OK. Now, I have also. Maybe you can help me...given Julie a series of questions that I'll be asked.. No. 1: When was the President notified? I'm going to say early this morning by Henry Kissinger.

K: <u>Correct.</u>

Z: Alright, now. How was Henry Kissinger notified?

K: By the Situation Room.

Z: And how were they notified? Ex: From the French Government, or did we get it from the wires?

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Telcon - Ziegler

-2-

K: We got it over the wires. From our Embassy.

Z: From our Embassy. OK, then we can say the President was informed
early this morning by HAK. What time? Well, shortly after dawn.

K: Right.

Z: Now. Will the President meet with Pompidou while he is in Paris?

K: Well you have to leave a little open - in fact he may not go.

Z: Oh, I thought you wanted me to announce it.

K: Well, he will go but the ceremonies only. We can't find anything out from
the god damn Frenchmen whether they'll let any heads of state come. Well
yes, you can be sure he will certainly pay a courtesy call on Pompodou.

Z: OK. Well now you say there's a question whether he will go. Shall I
still announce it.

K: Yeah.

Z: Will he meet with the Paris delegation while he's there?

K: No. I don't think so, anyway.

Z: We'd better leave that loose, you know?

K: Well, no, you'd better say no. Say he's just going to the funeral. It
wouldn't be appropriate for him to work while he's there.

Z: Yeah, OK. When does he go? Tomorrow night?

K: Tomorrow, late afternoon, or night. We are working that out now.

Z: OK. We'd have to overnight there then, I guess.

K: Well, unless we fly at night and come back the next late afternoon.
We'd better get a hold on some hotel rooms.

Z: Yes, I know. That's what we'll have to begin to move on fairly soon.

K: Right. OK Ron. Thank you.

ms

DECLASSIFIED
MJD F.O. 12958
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By NARA Date 6/1/67

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Ron Ziegler

November 10, 1970

K: Hello

Z: Hello, Henry.

K: Ron, how are you?

Z: Good.

K: Uh, Ron, we are gonna have this statement in about ten minutes.

Z: Okay.

K: But what we would like is to announce that we are going to the memorial service.

Z: Well, good. Reuther is already on the air with it, I hope nobody up there has talked to him.

K: Who?

Z: Dan Reuther is already on the air with the fact that he is going to the funeral, I wonder where he got ...

K: Well, that has to be wrong, because I'm the only one that could talk to him.

Z: That's what I thought, he has to be guessing.

K: But the fact of the matter is that, uh, there is a memorial service in Nortredame Thursday at 11:00. You can say the President plans to attend and we will have further details and I would like it out fairly soon.

Z: Yeah.

K: So that we don't follow every African country with the announcement.

Z: Right, /Okay. What I'd like to do is issue the statement and the announcement at the same time.

K: The only trouble with that is that it may mean that 20 African countries get their announcements out first.

Z: Well, see the real pressure I'm getting from everywhere is just a simple remark like I'm sorry he's dead.

MJD F.O. 12958
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TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Ron Ziegler

November 10, 1970

K: Well, uh, you'll get it in 5 minutes, unfortunately we have six speech writers, 10 staff members ....

Z: I know what problems you're faced with.

K: And, I'm writing it right now.

Z: Okay, I have a gal standing by who will take the dictation from one of Haig's gals or one of your gals.

K: Right.

Z: Then do we have to check it with the President or ...

K: No, no, I'll talk to him, it's okay.

Z: So I don't have to, once I get it from you, I can go with it?

K: Right.

Z: Okay.

K: Bye.

Z: We'll see you.

[End of Tape]

DECLASSIFIED

MJD F.O. 12958
Authorship

By NARA Date 6/1/70