The President's Office of the Vice President
The White House
Executive Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20505

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: K.L.V. NASA Date: 5/13/72

TELCOM
G. Smith/Kissinger
10:10 a.m. 2/15/72

K: At the end of the Verification Panel meeting the other day you read a number of things summing up what you thought was not and was negotiable. If I could have that for the trip.

S: I think it's over there already. Odeen requested it and it went over on Sat.

K: I want the President to read it on the trip.

The President's Office of the Vice President
The State of New York
Department of State

Reproducible Copy

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12908, Sept. 3.6

By: K.M.L. NAFU Date: 5/13/72

TELCONE

Atty. Gen. /Kissinger

10:20 a.m.

2/15/72

K: You are getting your own headlines today.

AG: It's come to pass.

K: I want you to know I will miss you badly. I don't think you are out of reach.
You have been a tower of integrity and strength here.

AG: Very nice words.

K: I have finally run down this Greek, Pappas business. Tasca wants to go
to Istanbul and Papas with him. It serves no purpose and the Turks won't like
it. The Patriarch is coming through Athens in March and they can get to see
him then.

AG: Was this an official request?

K: I don't know but I will get it to Tasca and you tell Pappas. We have no
objection to his seeing him.

AG: Just the Turkish part of it. If word gets over there they will take care of it.

K: I will see to it. Where will your office be?

AG: My law office is across from the WH.

K: Will you work out of there?

AG: Not entirely. I have to be gainfully employed.

K: That's something I haven't had to worry about recently.

AG: I hope you don't for awhile.

K: Thanks, John.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

Re: phone tree from the opposite side
of the楼, next to the conference room
Re: telephone call?

TELCONE
Connally/Kissinger

10:26 a.m.

2/15/72

K: I wanted to have a word with you on the letter to Pompidou. For reasons I will explain to you next time I see you but we need his good will in the next few months and I *smxx* wonder if there's a way of phrasing this stuff more conciliatorily.

C: Sure there is.

K: On convertability. And he is a bug on defending the dollar and if we could
bow to say we are doing something.

C: If you have done --

K: I have not because I don't know what to say.

C: I will take a look at it.

K: I will explain it to you. Perhpas I will drop over tomorrow.

C: We will look at it again tomorrow.

K: If we could have *fix* it tonight to get it out tomorrow.

C: I agree.

Hai, я слушаю. Видно, вы не знаете, что

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.6

TELCOM
D. Kraslow/Kissinger
10:37 a.m. 2/15/72

By: KHLW NARA, Date: 5/13/04

K: Am I getting to be the press secretary here?

DK: I have to get reliable information somewhere. Tad Shulc says that Stoessel in 1970 offered to send an emissary to Peking. It's my recollection that we offered ? ? ? it's my recollection that talks stopped because of Cambodia.

HK: It was in response to something we said. It was very low level stuff then.

DK: """""" (Article attached)

HK: It's bureaucratic bull-shit.

DK: No such move?

HK: I would have to look at the record.

DK: """"""

HK: Nonsense. Not true.

DK: """""

HK: I would have to look at the record. What is being misconstrued here.

DK: Nothing about an emissary to Peking?

HK: Very low-level stuff. k

DK: About an emissary?

HK: I would have to look at it. It's a distortion.

DK: Feb. meeting was on one. Do you think Dong will be in Peking before the President arrives?

HK: I know no more than you do. When I make a flat statement I don't mislead you. I have only seen the information that you saw.

DK: French putting this out?

HK: Came out of Saigon.

DK: What significance if he did?

HK: Keeping an eye on the Chinese.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

The following are classified as top secret, secret, or confidential and may not be reproduced without written permission from the producer.

By: K.M.L. NASA Date: 5/13/04

D. Kraslow/Kissinger

10:37 a.m. 2/15/72

-2-

DK: Not conciliatory?

Wouldn't

HK: I don't want to talk in Peking.

DK: Keep feet to the fire.

HK: I don't want you to scoop us.

DK: You are so cute.

HK: I won't take your calls if you are insolent.

DK: You don't think there will be a move by the NVN.

HK: I don't exclude it. I have no evidence. It's a guess as good as yours.

DK: And Stoessel article is horse shit.

HK: No overwhelming significance.

DK: Was there talk of an emissary to Peking?

HK: Chinese talking about something in a general way. Both sides. Working out details.

DK: Also shifting site of talks.

HK: I don't remember that.

DK: That's what you said. Away from Warsaw.

HK: We are talking about 2 channels. I think I will let it go. Don't attach significance.

DK: When you talked earlier to me you thought that site of Warsaw talks was to be shifted.

HK: Nothing very explicit but on the table.

DK: Perhaps shifting to Peking.

HK: That's a possibility. It was a very, very early feeling out stage. We were not

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

The information contained in this document is classified as top secret.

By: K.M.W. NASA Dated: 5/13/04

D. Kraslow/Kissinger

10:37 a.m. 2/15/72

-3-

talking about senior people. Not talking about people at all. Talking about technical aspects.

DK: Talks in Peking and in Warsaw.

HK: At some point.

DK: And we didn't respond to it.

HK: Not explicitly.

DK: And we were dealing with this when talks cancelled.

HK: That's right.

The Times, Sunday Times, London
The Times, Sunday Times, London
Associated Press, New York Times, United Press International

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.6

By: K.M.Y. NARA. Date: 5/12/04

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger/Dave Kraslow

10:48 a.m., February 15, 1972

K: I have just skimmed that story. It is horseshit!

Kr: It was initiated by them.

K: There was no such suggestion on our part. This is self-serving.

Kr: They are tying things together that are unrelated?

K: They are running what little they know of the various channels together. It is obvious what their game is.

Kr: It's a never-never land. I try to tread carefully.

K: I am telling you the truth.

Kr: I'm beginning to have an understanding. In Warsaw, they were suggesting in a vague way talks in Peking.

K: It was a hint understood by us which we used in the second channel. It was never used in Warsaw.

Kr: But we were prepared to pursue meetings in Warsaw?

K: They would have moved slowly.

Kr: But they were vaguely suggesting, and we were prepared to explore it when the Cambodian thing intervened. One of these days you will tell me which channel...

K: Right. Good-bye.

Question Three the open is to
the Sea or the Ocean
Pleasantest Sea?

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3-6

TELCOM
Scotty Reston/Kissinger

3:36 p.m.

2/15/72

R: One of your colleagues who is going as an interpreter called my office this morning and put what seemed a very sensible question. He wanted to get the sound of Chou En-lai's voice into his mind so he would be able to interpret and asked if I had a tape of my conversation and I said yes, I did. I want to help him but I wanted your judgment of the proprieties of this. There are some parts of it that I think would not be proper for me to pass on.

K: Can you segregate those?

R: It's fix difficult because I would lose the continuity and integrity of the whole thing.

K: Who is it?

R: I don't know (his name). My question to you is whether you think if the Chinese were to know that that tape was made known to an American official would they think it's a breach of face?

K: What did you tell the Chinese?

R: They were like you when you were arguing with them on what words meant. Took me on good faith.

K: If they have reason to believe that you would not show it --

R: I don't think the question crossed their minds because other then the one hickup when he seemed not to be tracking and one other small point they were totally in line with their transcript to the tape. I just wanted your judgment.

K: I would be perplexed too if I were in your shoes. They are always extremely meticulous to live up to the letter and spirit of their details.

R: There was only one point. Whether it would be used for re-broadcast and I gave them assurances and nothing beyond that was raised.

K: I think ________ most of transcript has been published.

R: Almost verbatim. What he is trying to do --

K: Since he will be hearing Chou's voice anyhow and you will not be giving him anything he won't hear anyway, I would do it. If I have a graceful way of pointing it out -- it won't come up.

R: No need to. I have been going over -- the book on Panmunjum.

K: Adm. Joy?

The president of the open council of the
Ungiven, New of the world's capital
MOSCOW, RUSSIA

By: KML NASA Date: 5/12/04

-2-

R: No. On negotiating with the Chinese and adversary ______ of Chinese. Kenneth Young. Did you read it?

K: No.

R: It's so different from you. The tricky and all. What was the incident where you were trying to get words down and he said forget it?

K: He said let's worry about the ? ? ? and then we will see the words.

R: Can you recall what the incident was?

K: It's only for your information.

R: Then forget it. Trying to make point that we are trustful and they are wily. That's what Kenneth Young says.

K: It's not our experience. It might be in the next phase. No evidence of it in our deals with them.

R: They are dealing not only with us but the Russians and many (constituencies). Their view isn't you and the President across the table. They have many other people. Good luck.

K: Thank you and I very much appreciated the dinner a few weeks ago.

R: I was troubled after it was over because it seemed I put you in an awkward position and I didn't want to do that.

K: This went beyond Administration and done in a fine spirit.

R: Good luck.

K: All the best and I will see you when I get back.

Re: [illegible text] in the upper left
right, No space or decimal
Punctuation missing!

CLASSIFIED
E.O 12938, Secr. 3.6

TELCON
President/Kissinger
3:58 p.m. 2/15/72

By: KHLW NASA Date: 5/13/74

P: I gave Al a couple of things to pull together for me. Let me ask you -- in reading Chou En-lai's toast really his line very closely follows what I have been saying in my general stuff. He talks about two great people. Our social systems are very different. I think that line is established. The friendship is the point. We can say peace but ? ? ? ?. They have a different meaning.

K: In your public statement.

P: How was the meeting with Dobrynin?

K: A letter to a Jewish group that Garment wrote that slipped through.

P: I didn't write that letter. Signed: Dobrynin by me?

K: Yes.

P: Who cleared it?

K: I have disapproved letters like this.

P: You know my attitude. If I had seen it I ____ would not approve it.

K: I know that.

P: Not approved by your staff?

K: My staff member is looking for it. He is beside himself. Sent last week.

P: In connection with a speech?

K: With condition of Jews in the Soviet Union. I told Fisher to leave us alone when he came to us.

P: Was it? These are signed because I trust the staff. You have to be able to. They say a lot of things that are not comfortable to us. We can only say--

K: Done by the political side of the house. If we wanted to needle them we wouldn't do it so obviously. He is unhappy about the submarine project.

R: Let them talk about that. Did you give him the business of ____ contract?

["The President of the Republic of China, the President of the Republic of China, and the President of the

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.6

Re: Kissinger's telephone conference with the other leaders of the House of Representatives.

By: K.H.Y. NASA Date: 5/13/04

President /Kissinger
3:58 p.m.

2/15/72

-3-

P: Just to put back with the other book. You have another thing also for 8:00. Do you prepare brief talking points for the meeting with Congress leaders? I don't want it tonight.

K: Tomorrow morning.

P: Make it as bland as you can. Along lines of the press conference. We have to meet these leaders. I haven't the slibhest idea. I have to tell them no agenda.

K: You can talk in general way.

P: You can realize we have to do some fillibustering.

K: They will be receptive.

["A. M. E. T. C. E. T. C. E. T. C. E. T. C. E. T. C. E. T. C

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 1293, Sec. 3.6

H. Sidey/Kissinger
4:37 p.m.

2/15/72

By: K.L.V. NASA Date: 5/13/74

-6-

K: When we first impinged on them we were small and they were great. This is the first basis of meeting with equality.

S: Could you tell me since I-reallize they have been careful about giving details. Can you tell me about the President's house? (This will be coming out after we arrive.)

K: I haven't been inside. Have been in the same complex. It's a group of houses around a lake in the western suburbs. Drawing rooms on the ground floor and suites on the second floor.

S: What is the plan?

K: Central European, upper middle class.

S: What's that?

K: Don't quote me! It's not modern. It's like Europe in the '30's. It's not heavy. It's not enormously distinguished but it is very comfortable.

S: On a hill?

K: No.

SL How far from the Great Hall?

K: about 10 minutes.

S: They will be like the President resides in on other trips.

K: President, none me, Haldeman and one or two others.

S: Communications and security?

K: Yes.

S: Anything else in preparation? How did Malraux go?

K: Better for mood and not detail. He has not seen the leaders since '65.

S: How was the President -- just fascinated?

K: By the book and on level of general historical proposition he was fascinating.

H. Sidey/Kissinger
2/15/72

By: KHLW NASHA, Date: 5/12/72

H. Sidey/Kissinger

4:37 p.m.

2/15/72

S: The context of the meeting is historical and not political.

K: Also political but deeper meaning k is historical. The trip was, in its basic outlines, more or less set. It's what follows after the trip and that requires the President.

S: Anything from the dinner last night that the President said that puts it--

K: Matter of greatness in men and men being possessed by a vision and just using the clay they have available very successfully.

S: Many broader views of Asian picture. Any new ideas?

K: He talked more intx terms of flashes of insight.

S: I chatted with Safire and he consulted notes after '69 meeting of the President with Malraux and Malraux said it was a tragedy that the most powerful nation on earth didn't get together with the poorest nation on earth.

K: I don't remember it. Malraux said that economic assistance will be the first thing Mao will raise but he says he didn't raise it.

S: With Ted Kennedy. It comes to something deeper than that.

K: Much deeper.

S: That's a great help. We will sit tight.

K: I will look forward to seeing what you write. At least you don't have a daily deadline.

S: Any chance of seeing you over there?

K: I have no idea.

S: At least perhaps when you get back.

K: I can promise you that.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sect. 3.6

H. J. Rabin, Rabin & Kissinger, P.C.
Attorneys for TELCON
P.O. Box 1568
Palo Alto, California 94308

By: K.H. Ly
NASC Date: 5/13/72

TELCON
Rabin/Kissinger
4:50 p.m. 2/15/72

R: I really feel some uneasiness to bother you. I know you are very busy but anything that you mentioned would happen?

K: No. I would like to see you tomorrow. Not that anything happened but I would like to see you.

R: Anything except the lunch time.

K: I will call you in the morning. Lunch I cannot do.

R: I cannot do it because I have my Finance Minister and lunch at my home. So later in the day would be better.

K: It was very general and I began talking on the interim one but on very vague terms on the formal position which back I made tough.

R: I would like to ask you some questions on period of last two weeks.

K: I will call you tomorrow.

The President's Office in the Department of Defense

~~Prepared by a commercial
~~Research Staff?

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

By: KML W
NARA. Data: 5/12/04

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Dr. Fritz Kraemer
6:40 p.m.; 2-15-72

FK: I know you are overburdened but I simply do need some clarification of some information from you on the matter of the young man who is serving with you. I can't find out how this thing really stands. The man you had breakfast with the other day -- he is not very clear on what he had to say to the people around here. It sounded a little different from what seemed to be the result of your conversation with the man with one leg cut off. Do you know who I mean?

K: No.

FK: The man who came to speak to you about this man's future.

K: Oh, yes, I talked with him.

FK: The top man in the building where I work came back from his breakfast with you with a somewhat different proposal.

K: He is playing his usual game.

FK: When he grabbed you by the arm and...

K: Kraemer, I told him as a friend that it would be better for my friend if he got to be in charge of a division. I said I would take this up with my principal and he would consider it carefully. When I come back I will tell him I have taken it up with my principal and we will keep it as it is. I have kept divisions in Europe for four years by this premise.

FK: Very good. That's entirely sufficient for me.

K: I am absolutely clear where I am heading.

FK: This is perhaps the last service I can handle to the organization to which my heart belongs. It would be disasterous if the Princeton PhD...

K: That I have already killed.

FK: I could handle everything else but that Princeton PhD.

K: That has already been killed. I have to do this a little step at a time.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12930, Sept. 3.6

Re: a phone call with a man in it
about some kind of a mutual
Democratic stuff.

By: KH.Y
NASHA Date: 5/13/04

-2-

FK: I am still in the same position with this other man -- not (?) first name basis. I only believe we need this young blood.

K: You don't have to give me any protestations -- you only do these on objective grounds. I am fully clear on what has to be done. I know that your protege sometimes gets impatient with me.

FK: Ah, when you are not there he defends you like a lion.

K: I have until the end of March and I will get it done before the end of March. I first want the promotion completely established and then I made the request. He has made a counter proposal and it will be rejected. It says movement within the year. This is easy.

FK: I fear we might be drawn into a situation -- island of resistance. . .

K: I understand it only too well.

FK: May God be with you on this trip. Did you read the article by George Ball? It was astonishingly objective. Did you read it.

K: Yes, I did. Good, Kraemer!

FK: When you come back let's get together. God be with you.

Re:telecon with the press
Re:Pres. and Pres. of the Republic of
Press Briefing

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.L.V. NASA Date: 5/12/04

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Don Oberdorfer/John Carmody
7:10 p.m.; 2-15-72

K: If we come back with a Communique that includes economic aid I will promise you I will come to you and you can write a column that I am out of it. This is inconceivable. I was in the meeting with Malraux and the President said what he said at the press conference.

C: When Malraux asked, did the President nod in agreement?

K: You know it is not the President's job -- we don't want him to go out and say the President has rejected any ideas. He was polite to a distinguished guest.

C: Thank you, I appreciate it very much.

The President of the Republic of China has appointed him to the position of Vice President.

By: K.L. V

NASA Date: 5/12/64

Telecon

Mr. Kissinger
Don Oberdorfer
7:10 p.m.; 2-15-72
Ron Kover
John Carmody

O: John Carmody (?) went to a press conference -- Malraux.

K: I know. We are talking off the record now.

O: Why don't I let you speak to him.

K: But off the record. I don't want to be quoted.

C: The problem is we are a little puzzled. Is he speaking for the President or what?

K: When he opens his mouth he is on his own. None of this is Mr. Nixon. I think, off the record, if any of this is going to come up in China I have wasted fifty hours of conversation with Chou En-lai.

C: You don't think they are going to ask for any aid.

K: It is not even conceivable to me that they will ask for it. This is a Malraus idea and is not our idea. In fact, you would do us a favor if you would say he is strictly on his own.

C: He was asked would Nixon consider a request for aid and he said he thinks so but it depends on whether the Chinese leaders are serious.

K: Serious about taking money (laughter).

C: Serious about wanting good relations -- something like a Marshal Plan for China.

K: If any of this happens, I will tell you now I am a lousey prophet. He may be right about what the Chinese want but they gave me no indication whatsoever.

C: And you would be amazed.

K: I would be astonished. This is strictly off the record -- not even to be ascribed to knowledgeable member of the Administration.

C: Right. We are running a story in Style which I think is in the right ____.

OCLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

The president should know if he is told of a commercial
Pilotless Jet?

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Congressman Passman
7:50 p.m.; 2-15-72

By: KMLV NASA Date: 5/12/74

K: Sorry I could not get back to you.

P: I am fighting a lost battle on this support and military assistance thing for the President. You have two very determined men who want to destroy the President's popularity and prestige -- Ellender...

K: Why does Ellender want to destroy the President?

P: Ellender has said time and time again that Russia wants peace and we are the ones who are keeping this stirred up. Quoting: we are keeping this country in dictatorship. These are the facts of life. I am working closely with Hannah. I can trust him. (There was some rambling of figures $350 million for military assistance -- $498 into the pipeline -- supporting assistance $361) You have a phony (?) in the Peace Corps. He is about to blow this thing. He needed 82.2 -- why you people bought it. My committee wanted to give him 50; I finally agreed to 60 continuing to 72. He has gotten out letters to all Peace Corpsmen -- hired a pretty public relations girl -- I closed the door in her face. I am willing to move up to 72. Timmons is such a wonderful young fellow.

K: You will settle for 72?

P: Yes. Look at last year -- we wanted 98 we gave him 90 and he wound up with 7 he couldn't spend. He is conning these people. You will get all the money that you possibly need and more than you expected because I feel I must hold the President's hand up. There is a difference from what the Senate wants and what I want. I will not go beyond 72. It is essential that we get message to Shriver (?)

K: You have been terrific.

P: I want the President to know that I am carrying the ball for him.

K: I will move on it immediately. I will inform the President.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority: EOLISEY
By: CNARA Date: 5/1/72

TELCOM

Ambassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

8:25 p.m., February 15, 1972

D: I thought of you already preparing to go to bed for a good night's sleep.

K: After the meal you gave me, that's all I am capable of doing. It was really very good.

D: You make it. The cook really tried to impress you. He tried to show you he is one of the best cooks. He has really impressed me.

K: Anatoliy, there are a number of minor things. One, the Berlin matter we discussed, we just as soon not proceed.

D: Berlin?

K: Better to let nature take its course in the normal way.

D: Okay.

K: Second, I have looked into this matter of the letter about the Jewish problem.

D: Yes.

K: There is no consolation in the result, but I can assure you it was the result of an overeager staff man who brought it in without explaining what it was about. I can tell you privately that the President is extremely angry.

D: I don't care about the specifics of it.

K: I just wanted you to know. If we want to needle you, we will find another way to do it.

D: It creates some publicity which goes back to home.

K: You let your people know about this.

D: I would like it not to happen in the future. In this particular case, it doesn't matter.

K: It will not happen in the future without my telling you first. The third thing, the question of the trawlers. This is a complex legal problem. I talked to Attorney General Mitchell and asked if he would see if the matter can be ______ up. I hope to have an answer for you before I go.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority F-12587
By LARA Date 6-10-72

TELCOM

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

8:25 p.m., February 15, 1972

D: Thank you.

K: Let me see if there is anything else. On Cyprus, we will give you a reply soon. We will approach it in a positive spirit of preventing a deterioration of the situation. You can tell this to your government. We will have some meetings on this subject tomorrow.

D: You will give tomorrow some additional advice. Okay, thank you.

K: This is a preliminary reply.

D: Okay, thank you.

K: So you see you sometimes get good service from me after you call me the most difficult man.

D: Sometimes I am angry with you. Thank you very much for what you just mentioned.

K: Okay.

D: Thank you very much. In case there is something --

K: Your office will know how to get you.

D: Yes. The guest leaves tomorrow for Moscow so I am saying goodbye to him in the UN so you can get me in my office and get in touch.

K: I may just give you a few paragraphs Thursday morning.

D: That would be even better because I will be here and I will have a chance to say so long.

K: See you Thursday morning.

D: See you on Thursday.

Re: [insert telephone number]
Re: [insert name of individual]
Re: [insert document title]

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.M.V. /NASA. Date: 5/12/72

TELCOM

8:25 p.m., February 15, 1972

D: Berlin?

D: Okay.

D: Yes.

Re: [insert telephone number]

Re: [insert telephone number]

Re: [insert telephone number]

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 1295B, Sec. 3.5

TELCOM

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

8:25 p.m., February 15, 1972

By: KHLW NASA Date: 5/12/72

D: Thank you.

D: Okay, thank you.

D: Sometimes, I am angry with you. Thank you very much for what you just mentioned.

K: Okay.

K: See you Thursday morning.

D: See you on Thursday.

The President's Office of the Vice President
Reception Hall

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Seci. 3.5

TELCONE
G. Smith/Kissinger
evening 2/15/72

By: KMLW NASA Date: 5/13/74

S: Could I ask you a piece of advize? Tomorrow I appear before Fulbright to go over SALT and I see in the newspaper that submarine program is a political signal to the Soviets. I expect questions mfx on whether I had part in it and ACDA didn't have a crack on posture statement and I wonder what I could say.

K: You are in DPRC.

S: Was there a discussion of it?

K: There was but Laird manages to keep me confused so it's easy to do with you.

S: I know nothing except in my letter where I urged the opposite course.

K: I cannot say this makes your life easier. I would be lieing to you.

S: I wanted you to be aware and perhaps the President puts me in a box with these fellows and I will try to jump out if possible.

K: We feel prepared to slow it up if there's an agreement.

S: If I could leave that implicit I would rather because it would be better coming as I said to the Soviets. Instead of leaking it. It's a juicy tidbit. ? ? ? ? ? NSC on first round.

K: Fully discussed by Laird standards. But I didn't know we were launching a
full scale ULMs program this year.

S: They will ask about treaty and interim agreement. I will say we are going for it on offensive and defensive. No ultimate ? ? ? ? in our gains. See any objection?

K: No.

S: Have a good trip.

Re: Kissinger's meeting with the communists
is it really true?

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.5

By: K.L.Y

NASHA, Date: 5/13/72

TELCOM
Kissinger/G. Smith
9:25 a.m. 2/16/72

S: I am likely to get questions on Congressional advisors and I will keep it in neutral.

K: Bill Timmons says we are not too eager for it.

S: John Cooper last night said that he talked with Mansfield and he said if the subject is raised and Cooper is the Republican, Mansfield willing to be Democrat. It could be a lot worse. I pass that on.

K: The handling of Congress is a mystery I haven't solved. All I know is in the staff meeting this morning Timmons says he hopes you will not encourage it.

S: I think it's a mistake because it will make task harder in future.

K: Keep it in neutral.

S: It would involve the WH asking people to go to Helsinki and spend a few days and then lead the sheep into the corral after the presentation. They would back us. We couldn't loose unless the leadership couldn't produce those you want.

K: If you think it would be helpful I will raise the context.

S: I will have the paper on your desk when you get back.

H. J. S. Kissinger, the open lines
of the day, Basileus of commercial
Papal Court?

TELCONE
Don Marron/Kissinger

9:40 a.m.

2/16/72

By: KMLW NASA Date: 5/12/72

M: How is the world's best known celebrity in the moment? Just wanted to wish you well on the trip.

K: I hope you feel that way when we come back.

M: You have done a lot already. I was at the World Foreign Relations last evening and the impact is clear.

K: That's good to know.

M: We were talking about future planning of the Council. I am on their now.

K: That's more intelligent then they have been for a long time. They have to get people who are not in the establishment.

M: Talk about your impact and it's remarkable. Hope this trip turns out as well as it seems it might.

K: I hope so. We have prepared it pretty carefully.

M: I gather extraordinarily carefully. I had lunch on Tues. with Shrivers brother and Bill Moyers and they are trying to get Mendes' France's brother on Bill's TV program. He won't do it because he has a book coming out on the subject.

K: Is Bill still working for you?

M: Yes. On the payroll. Doing one show a week until June. I hope we can get together after China.

K: Come down for lunch or breakfast.

M: You don't know your schedule yet.

K: Best would be to call me -- perhaps it's better right after I come back. March 1 or 2. Let's plan Mar. 2 breakfast.

M: Fine. What time?

K: 8:00 in my office.

M: OK. I will be watching with interest the TV reports.

Hai, we are sorry we can't see you right. Please call again.

If you have any questions or concerns, please let us know.

P.S. Don't forget to bring your mask!

TELCONE
President/Kissinger

10'28'xx am 2/16/72

By: KHLW NASA Date: 5/13/74

P: I was wondering whether they got off the other strikes or not. I Corps.

K: I think they are doing it. It will end tomorrow morning.

P: No reports on damage on the first one.

K: A preliminary report with a lot of secondary explosions. I think there's not doubt that NVN are really confused. Ross Perot has a man over there who they think is a peacenik. They are questioning him on how we would react to an offensive, etc. It's possible they are proposing this meeting to hold us quiet while they are doing an offensive.

P: We will not do that, of course. You indicated that in a message. If they pull an offensive and say cancel meeting, we have a good case on them.

Kx

K: We could do that right up to the wire. They cancelled 3 days before the last one.

P: The interesting thing is that ? ? ? ?. They may figure that for them the optimum time may be while we are in China. It's not ax if they think it through but they x may want to embarass the Chinese.

K: It's possible they do it but our publicity will override their offensive and
SVN can hold a week or two.

P: SVN in sporadic raids are doing very well. I think they are much stronger
then NVN want to admit.

K: They are winning so far but there has not been a really big one. They lost 120-14 last week. Everyone in SVN seems to be very optimistic. Of course that's been the case before. Even if they take Long Tien tomorrow it took them 7 weeks between pushes with twice the force they had last year and we are at the end of Feb. already. They may try something while you are in China.

P: If they do we will not let them use the meeting for a cover. That's clear to them.

K: We have put in the message that we are accepting and proposing the 20th and the 15th not suitable and escalation not conducive to this meeting.

TELECON
The President

2/16/72 10:50 a.m.

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.L.V. NASA Date: 5/12/04

P: I noticed in reading Edgar Snow's Life articles, his meeting with Mao was in April. Mao was speaking then of a visit. Had we had our first note by then?

K: Yes, in effect. The first time we hward of Mao's interview with Snow -- which was when we read it in Life -- by that time we did have a message. The interview took place though in January or February.

P: So he was thinking about it then, Mao was.

K: Yes.

P: Very interesting. Okay. How did Malraux handle his press conference?

K: Part of it was all right. He went off again . . .

P: On the economic kick?

K: Yes.

P: It doesn't bother us.

K: It will bother the Chinese. He says you are going there to find out whether Mao is sincere in his desire to give friendship before you decide whether to give them a Marshall Plan. He does say the most important thing for the Chinese is whether you have a view of the future of the Pacific basin and the world.

P: Right.

K: He handled it well, and I think his visit was a plus.

P: The Chinese are not going to be concerned about what Malraux said.

K: No.

P: And they like him because he has been one of their friends.

K: That is right, and the French will be flattered by it. All in all, it was a big plus. And it will get good press.

P: It's a good story to show we are looking into various things. It must have confused the liberals.

K: They are pretty quiescent now. And two weeks after your visit, if Le Duc Tho shows up in Paris, they will be out of their minds.

TELECON

The President

2/16/72 10:50 a.m. p. 2

P: They'll worry.

K: They will attribute it to China.

P: We don't care what they attribute it to. I was reading the State Department's papers. I didn't read them carefully, they were perfectly adequate but it seems to me they were somewhat superficial.

K: Exactly.

P: I don't say it critically, because they don't know. But one point they do make has to do with my conversation with Sato --that whatever we say publicly will have its affect on Japan, and if they get the feeling we made a move that indicates we are going to dump the Taiwan relationship, then they must cut theirs off. Sato and Fukuda will figure they have got to do that to be ahead of us. What can be done to mitigate it?

K: Well, if they accept the Haig formulation -- the formulation I sent there with Haig -- that's a rather strong statement.

P: On our part.

K: That shouldn't give the Japanese any problem. We can't accept their formulation. And they have practically promised us they will change it, and Green is going there the first stop after Shanghai.

P: Is there anything you can do prior to Green getting there? I am inclined to think they are going to take it more from you than him.

K: I could get the Japanese ambassador in.

P: Right, tell him in total confidence I want him to know the Taiwan position is essentially unchanged. It will be an area of total disagreement with the Chinese.

K: Not say total disagreement, can say an area in which we will stay in step with the Japanese

P: That our position will not have changed.

K: They will be extremely pleased by what we will say about them.

P: You might mention that to him too.

K: I'll mention that if the Chinese say something unfriendly we will say something friendly. The trouble is they leak so much

P

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.5

By: K.M.W. NARA, Dcm: 5/13/04

Re: [illegible text] in the original text
sir, this is not legible
Re: [illegible text]

CLASSIFIED
E.O 12938, Sec. 3.6

TELECON

The President

2/16/72 10:50 a.m. p. 3

there

P: But isn't it worth it to say, [illegible], is a problem on leaks, but this is for the private channel between the President, the Prime Minister and Fukuda. It might do some good. Say I authorized Green to fill them in totally. On Taiwan we'll be in step and in regard to Japan we will stand firm on our treaty commitments or whatever it is. I think a little preventive action might help. Don't you agree?

K: Yes. I've got a [illegible] showing the evolution of the communique. Do you want me to send it to you?

P: I don't think I'll need that. I think I should stay out of the business of haggling with the communique. Then if you get to a certain tough place, I'll get into it.

K: We'll get a better [illegible] on trade exchanges, even though what we have got is good.

P: It's interesting to note though that they don't give a damn about trade and cultural exchanges. They couldn't care less.

K: No, but it's good for our press. One area where you might have to step in is Taiwan. You may have to do that with Mao.

P: One other thing I want you to think about. I'm concerned we may not have worked out with the Chinese the division here that will give Rogers and Green enough to talk about. I can't sit there in the plenary session and go over the matters I want.

K: Impossible.

K: P: Rogers and Green will be totally out of tune with the long discussions Chou and I will get into.

K: Then they'll leak it when they are back.

P: I can't have that kind of conversation when I get back. Do I understand that Chou will be in the meetings with Mao and you will be there?

K: Yes.

P: He expects you.

K: Yes, and Lord and . . . . .

P: And on Mao?

K: He insists on having Chou there, and there will be a notetaker and I will be there and we'll have Lord.

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The President of the Republic of China
and the People's Republic of China

By: KMLV
NASHA DATE: 5/13/04

TELECON
The President

2/16/82 72 10:50 a.m.

P: One last thing, wxx with regard to my reading. I took your verbatims and have gone over them, not totally, but went through each one to get the whole feel. I have also done all the background about the personalities of the two and what they like for breakfast, and who they are married to and all that. Now I'm concentrating on three things: One, your memoranda of conversation after your July and October meetings. Second, I am then going into the position papers on each issue.

K: Exactly.

P: And then from there I think that I will do a little . . . I looked at the CIA analysis of Chou a d Mao -- I think they both were quite superficial.

K: CIA is awful.

P: They're dull.

K: The best one we have in the book is the last one.

P: Who is it by?

K: It says NSC Staff. It's an assessment of Maos' thinking and writing.

P: Which book.

K: The book in which that lawyer xxx is. It's the last tab -- it was put in yesterday. It was done by a member of my staff from Michigan University. He did a book on Mao; he knows him wxx well. It puts down most of his thought. That I have gove over carefully. It's the last thing in the book.

P: If I read all this material it would take me three days, and it isn't worth it.

K: That's right. You skimmed the cream off. In your book on Mao and Chou I recommend the most the last tab.

P: I didn't find Edgar Snow's materials very good.

K: Once you know something, they are not useful.

P: Even Malraus goes overboard on the economic side, and others go overboard on the anti-American business, and others on the idea that the Chinese are really independent, and in the end that will assert itself. They may be independent in Hong Kong, but they sure as hell aren't in China. It's a mystery. You read Mao's stuff

TELECON
The President

2/16/72 10:50 a.m.

and he is all over the lot. He isn't consistent.

K: Except in his revolutionary fervor.

P: Yes, but not his tactics. He doesn't trust the intellectuals
and on the other hand, he doesn't trust the peasants because they aren't educated
enough.

K: Hell no. His great skill is to play every group in order to keep the maximum ferment.

P: Because he doesn't believe in peace. He believes that out of conflict, pain and suffering. . .

K: That's why he tore his country apart in the cultural revolution.

P: Because he believes that is the only hope to achieve some thing.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.6

By: KMLV NARA, Date: 5/12/04

H. W. REED, asst. ex. reg. co.

J. B. SMITH, asst. reg. co.

W. J. BROWN, asst. reg. co.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.M.L. NASA Date: 5/12/04

TELCOM

Cong. Passman/Kissinger/Garner Schreiber

11:18 a.m.

2/16/72

K: I understand you are cranking away like crazy.

P: I am going nuts on this bill. Can I make a statement?

K: Please.

P: The Administration indicated it wanted the Peace Corps cut and I kept my mouthshut. In 68 when we passed the bill they said it was acceptable. Last night I said we would push it to 72 million. (You agreed.) Would this be out of order that you tell Mr. Schreiber that it's acceptable? He is sitting here now. Is that acceptable?

K: Sure.

S:

S: This is Garner Schreiber.

K: My understanding is that with my colleagues here they configure is acceptable.

S: I am not sure it is with members of the House who are getting pressure from people. A lot of foreign aid I am against but this is one I am in favor of.

K: Difference if 72 & 78.

S: That's right in the middle of it. OK.

H. G. W. Bush, the 43rd President of the United States

TELCON
Timmons/Kissinger

11:20 a.m.

2/16/72

K: Your God-damned friend Passman just mousetrapped me. He called and asked if 72 million acceptable and I said I was told so. He had Schreiber in his office.

T: Did he put him on the phone? He (I've had that done to me at least a hundred times). What did Garner Schreiber say?

K: He went along with it. He also said the President wanted to cut the Peace Corps.

T: That's probably true.

K: We don't want headlines.

T: I know. It would be mortifying for you. I will call both of them and tell them to leave the WH out of it.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority Folzinger
By CHARA Date 6/2/62

TELCONE

Amb. Dobrynin/Kissinger

2:30 p.m. 2/16/72

K: Anatol, I am calling you about those two trawlers. I have worked out something with Mitchell which could end it quickly. As I understand it - I didn't know the details when we talked yesterday. But as I understand it, you people were reluctant to plead guilty so the proposal we are making to you is that you plead no contest and then the fine we will levy is $250,000 which is the lowest one.

D: $250,000.

K: Yes, I understand they talked about $300,000 but we interceded. If you would agree to this, we could settle in a matter of days.

D: Yes, I think we will. It is unnecessary irritation really.

K: Right. If you can agree. . .

D: Yes, I think we will because I am rather looking at the political side. It is a huge sum of money, though.

K: Well, it is but this is not up to us. After we talked, I appealed directly to Mitchell and he talked to the people up there. That is the best that can be done within existing limits.

D: All right. I think we will agree to this. I think all other points were covered yesterday.

K: Yes. And I'll call you tomorrow morning.

The president's office has received a call from the
President, but no one is available.
Please repeat?

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

TELCONE

Amb. Dobrynin/Kissinger

2:30 p.m. 2/16/72

NASA Date 5/12/64

D: $250,000.

H. E. S. I. T. E. C. 1973
U. S. A. 1973
U. S. A. 1973
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U. S. A. 1973
U. S. A. 1973
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U. S. A. 1973
U. S. A. 1973

CLASSIFIED
E.O 12938, Sect. 3.6

By: K.H. W. NASHA, Date: 5/13/04

TELCOM

Mr. Kissinger/Sec. Connally

2/16/72 6:10 p.m.

HAK: You are hard to reach.

SC: I know, I have got to stay out of the way. When the freight train is rolling, you know, I run for cover.

HAK: You must be up to a coup. A Connally getting out of the way I would like to see. That present draft is fine. We just added a personal paragraph to the end of why he was slow on answering. I am sending a copy of the letter over to you. Will you be passing here tomorrow.

JC: I will be tomorrow.

HAK: If you want to come into the office five minutes before we leave. There is a meeting of the Congressional leaders which I unfortunately have to attend and then he is going straight off. I will be here in the office tonight.

JC: All right. I will come by here tonight before seven o'clock.

Re: [insert telephone number]
Re: [insert name of person]
Re: [insert title of document]

By: KHLW NAVAQ Date: 5/13/04

TELCOM
Peterson/Kissinger

6:10 p.m. 2/16/72

P: Just wanted to wish you the best and let you know our hearts are with you.

K: You can't know how much your and Sally's friendship has meant to me. I am so serious.

P: We are devoted to you. The trip is so important. Whatever the substitute for your prayers, that which always seems to me irrelevant, they are with you.

K: We want you to take a trip to Russia but can we wait until we see what policy point is? I want to see if it's before or after the summit.

P: I thought you might want to announce something at the summit.

K: Give that some thought. What you would do there. How you would sort out these things. Not enmesh us in something that assumes the outcome.

P: We do have a problem here. Linkage is seen inversley at Commerce from the way you see it. I will work with you on it.

K: I know you will. It's a massive problem. After I get back we will sit down and see how we will handle it.

P: A couple of days after you are back I would like to go to it. Where we are going in Europe. I think I am right about this. Perhaps a breakfast.

K: How about this, among this panoply of things we can move without committing ourselves. Agriculture we can do but it's in Butts' area.

P: I told them that philosophically until this relationship is more stable I see no possibility for long term loans. I told them I would like them to think along a different pace. Perhaps 3-4 years. What are your views?

K: I thought what you said orally and in your memo is completely persuasive.

P: Regarding material (?) details unless structured from the beginning will be ______ billion 4-5 years. I would like to see all goes to paying back loan.

K: Should we discuss before or after summit. Give that some thought.