Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
The President

9/29/71; 6:45 p. m.

-3-

P: I can see the Middle East is what is bothering him.

K: I will fix some time, Mr. President, to see you first thing in the morning.

P: What time is my first appointment tomorrow?

K: I think it is 10:00. I have an 8:00 appointment with Bush.

P: You see Bush at 8:00 and come in to see me at 9:00. You are having
breakfast with him.

K: Yes.

P: After you see Bush, come in.

TELCON

Robert McNamara/Mr. Kissinger

7:20 p.m., September 29, 1971

K: I just wanted to tell you the matter -- the personal matter now is official. The President has formally approved it. The only technical holdup is that he wants to call you to mention it.

M: Thank you, Henry.

K: It was helpful, I was being selfish.

M: I would like to talk to you about Pakistan.

K: Let's do it next week.

M: I will call you.

K: I couldn't be more delighted, it is great for the country and so forth. I will call you within the next two weeks.

M: Fine, I will talk to you then.

K: Okay.

["TELCORN", "George Shultz/Mr. Kissinger", "7:25 p.m., September 29, 1971", "K: I was tied up all day, you called several times.", "S: I have two things in mind and I hope one of them is in reasonably good shape, the International Monetary Speech tomorrow. Paul Volcker had distributed a version that is very opposite to what we had decided. Connally said he had cleared it with the President. The President doesn't have a feel for it at all, do you think?", "K: Absolutely not at all. If we wanted to play this game, we could\n    clear declarations of war three times a day.", "S: That's what bothers me.", "K: He just doesn't know.", "S: It is more or less on the track but Connally has a free hand to do\n    whatever he wants but I think it is under control. The other thing\n    is a memorandum that is being sent to the President -- and I assume\n    it will go through you -- on Pakistan and it is a recommendation for\n    a $250 million appropriation.", "K: Yeah.", "S: And it seems to me (a) a hell of a lot of money and (b) rather\ncomplicated to get problems of hunger in East Pakistan on kind\nof a limitless basis.", "K: Not on a limitless basis but have to prevent hunger this year in\n    East Pakistan to prevent Indians from attacking. If there is a flow\n    of refugees, we will have another Southeast Asia war.", "S: They have a frontier between India and Pakistan. No real sense\nof boundary, the more food . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

TELCORN

George Shultz/Mr. Kissinger

7:25 p. m., September 29, 1971 -- page 2

K: Impossible before Friday.

S: Whenever you have time. They are pushing me to send it in.

K: Wait till Friday.

S: Are you going to Florida with the President?

K: No, are you?

S: Not that I know of but he wants to discuss Phase Two. Connally
has seized all power but doesn't know how to exercise it. We are
trying to get the pieces together for him, I may have to go down.

K: When is he coming back?

S: I don't know. I will hold this.

K: Hold until Friday.

S: I will put in a request to your office for an appointment.

K: Don't be too presumptuous now.

S: I will put in a proper request to your office for an appointment.

K: Proper means a certain amount of deference.

S: I understand.

TELECON
Professor Galbraith

9/29/71 7:35 p.m.

G: I've just finished a laudatory piece on Nixon policy.

K: What are you trying to do to us?

G: End of the Imperial State. It's a pretty good piece.

K: All your pieces are good.

G: I would like to have a further word with you on the Bengal problem.

K: I told my assistant early this week that I was anxious to have
lunch with you.

G: I will be in Washington on the 13th to testify in support of your
economic program. Are you free that day?

K: Why don't I just make myself free? For lunch? 1:00 in my office
or would you like to go out?

G: Your office is fine. Great. I'm really calling about a minor but
extremely important thing. If you could have your boss send a personal,
informal hand-written note to Mrs. Gandhi saying he is looking forward
to her visit, getting better acquainted, understanding her problems on the
subcontinent. It would relieve an enormous amount of tension growing out
of the fact that she is uncertain of the reception they are going to have in
Washington.

K: When did you form this idea?

G: From talking with her.

K: Because we have sent such a note in the last two weeks.

G: Two weeks ago today it was proposed to Keating that he pass this
suggestion on.

K: We sent such a note within the last two weeks. It's not handwritten;
it's typed. I was concerned about it too. KWX I didn't hear from Keating.

G: To give a sense of personal rapport. One of her assistants good got
hold of me and said to me personally that she was afraid of some brush-off at
the White House which would be very damaging.

K: There is no chance of this.

TELECON
Professor Galbraith
9/30/71 7:35 p. m. p. 2

G: I said there was no danger.

K: There's not the slightest chance of this happening.

G: I said that, but they know my relations with the Administration are less than intimate.

K: You are closer to me that the Secretary of State! If any Indian raises this with you, you will be treated with special courtesy. The Only thing I can't guarantee is if she lapses into one of her moody silences.

G: I know that; silences in that family are hereditary. That is not one I can protect against. But to have the family come with some personal reassurances . . .

K: The letter went out. I'll check to make sure. I approved it 10 days ago and it must have gone out. I'll call the Ambassador for a friendly conversation and ask if there is anything special we can do.

G: Good. I will see you on the 13th. I must say if it weren't for Women's Wear Daily I would have a difficult time getting in touch with you.

K: My Harvard colleagues will forgive me for Cambodia before they'll forgive me for that.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012582
By: LIONARA Date: 03/29/71

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Ambassador Dobrynin
9/29/71; 8:00 p. m.

D: Did everything go alright?

K: Except for one thing. I am told your Embassy has announced that I am seeing Gromyko alone. That's what our press people say.

D: I don't know where they found out.

K: I will just deny it.

D: It is alright with us. Nobody but ______ and the Assistant to Gromyko knows about it -- nobody else. Maybe Gromyko's assistant mentioned it to someone. You can deny it.

K: Let's have an understanding that we will keep it secret!

D: I will assure you that we did not want to make a fuss. He said is looking forward to meeting with you. It was not intentional from our side.

K: I just want to make sure you did not make a formal announcement. I was wondering about another thing. What do you think if I bring General Haig along to take some notes.

D: Well, well, well. I would rather you be alone. He will prefer it that way. For me it would not matter.

K: I will come alone.

D: That would be better.

K: I will have to dictate something afterwards.

D: He mentioned to me that the President mentioned that you will ...

K: In a general way a response to what you said in the morning. You mentioned the trip to me. Oh, among the American group at lunch tomorrow, the only person who knows about October 12 thing is the Secretary.

D: Okay. From our side no one knows except the Minister but the two of them could speak about it.

K: But we are not too eager to have it in that channel.

9/29/71; 8:00 p. m.

- 2 -

D: I understand but your Secretary may raise it. My minister has no intention to raise it.

K: Okay, everything is clear and we will not acknowledge my meeting.

D: Okay, because we did not make an official statement. You may do as you choose better. No offense from our side.

K: In the meeting tomorrow . . . subject you mentioned on the morning of the trip -- subject your Foreign Minister mentioned with the President.

D: (There was some double talk on the subject Mr. Kissinger will discuss in the meeting and I did not understand -- something about an area which was visited sometimes outside the country.)

K: Oh, yes, Oh, yes, which we discussed in the morning.

D: Yes. The President said you would discuss it.

K: Also, I will have a few things to say about the first subject your minister raised and, of course, any other topic your minister wishes to raise. Good I will look forward to seeing you. (him?)

D: At 5:30.

K: At 5:30. Okay, good.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority: Kissinger
By: CHUA Date: 9/29/71

DECLASSIFIED

Authority

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
The President
9/29/71; 6:45 p.m.

-3-

K: Yes.

Telecon

Mr. Kissinger

Ambassador Dobrynin

9/29/71; 8:00 p. m.

D: Did everything go alright?

K: I will just deny it.

D: I will assure you that we did not want to make a fuss. He has is looking forward to meeting with you. It was not intentional from our side.

K: I will come alone.

D: That would be better.

- 2 -

D: At 5:30.

K: At 5:30. Okay, good.

TELECON

Senator Javits

9/30/71 10:20 a.m.

K: Our people think that if I talk to you about the Mansfield vote it
will make some difference.

J: Okay, go ahead.

K: But I wouldn't if I didn't agree. You are on record about it -- I
know your conviction. The question we have to raise is how often is
the same basic principle voted on during the same period. when people are
already on record with their views and we are trying to get a negotiation off
the ground. I wonder if you can vote against it or abstain on the grounds
that there has been a chance to express one's self and you believe the basic
direction is now clear.

J: So that this is unnecessary.

K: Yes. We believe it would be helpful and the people who take this
line won't look bad.

J: I will look at that. Henry, we are ____ing around a resolution
to be passed by the House and Senate on the China policy. We have worked
out the text of it with State. The question is in view of the conservative group
. . . . . .
It would be a concurrent resolution of both houses backing the
President's policy respecting both Chinas. The question is the strategy of
holding in the Congress in view that we might get licked in the UN.

K: I think there is something to be said for having it.

J: We thought because the President might not have his way and may
be faced with the need to decide whether we will or will not veto . . . if there
is a Congressional resolution with him he might feel easier in the saddle.
I don't think he'll veto anyway . . .

K: No, I don't think so.

J: But if he's got the Congress on record with him it might be
easier for him to absorb the loss.

K: Could you send over a copy of the resolution?

J: Yes, and the man who will handle it in the House is Maillard.

K: My instinct is in favor of it.

J: Let me send it over to you.

TELCONE
Sisco/Kissinger

11:32 a.m.

9/30/71

K: I am getting to know your secretary well.

S: She's a lovely girl. You were awfully good. He is an incredible ass.
He does not represent the President. I thought you did a job on him and I
told the Secy. this morning. He is not too bright.

K: I wondered what we are floating on the M.E. Or do I find out from
Dobrynin.

S: We are keeping from the Russians.

K: Rabin?

S: We don't have anything.

K: When the Secy. says we will settle it this fall, what does he have in mind?

S: What I discussed with the Israelis last July and nothing beyond that. And
as I have said several times if we get on w ith making a quiet commitment
on arms the Israelis will release us. That's the problem. I am trying to
get the Secy. to face up to this. He wants a further chat with Eban and he
is seeing him Monday night. He has about as much influence with the Israelis
govt. as Riad has with the Egyptians. I hope after that we can get on with it.
The Secy. doesn't want to go into details with the Russians for two reasons:
one, ? ? ? ? --

K: We don't want to go into details but if they come in I want to know what
happens.

S: I am going to lunch and I will call you after lunch and tell you what happens.

K: You and I are having lunch next week.

S: I will be in NY with the Secy. but after that.

K: OK.

S: I will call you after the meeting.

TELCOM

Laird/Kissinger

11:35 a.m.

9/30/71

K: How are you?

L: Good/

K: You sound dejected.

L: I went over to watch Gromyko. Missed you.

K: I am against disarmament so I didn't show up. You send memos how you protect the national security interest against me so I had to avoid ???. The President sent a memo saying he was going to proceed with offset in a certain way and clearing with Defense and Treasury. I have put a stop on it until we get yours and Connally's view. I assume that reflects your wishes.

L: I would like to get a crack in there.

K: It's on the way to you. Let us know what you think and we will wait until we hear from you.

L: Got a moment?

K: Sure.

L: In August I sent over a memo on something the President talked with me about at breakfast. Get military out dealing with horses and floods and etc.

K: You have done that.

L: No. I wanted to on Sept. 1 but never got approval.

K: Did you send it here? To whom?

L: To the President through you.

K: Any action attached to it?

L: Only one action what was to give us the authority in disaster areas. I can do it without but it's cleaner with it. They tell me they are thinking of re-organizing the Civil Defense into the WH.

K: No, I talked about that.

Laird/Kissinger

11:35 a.m. 9/30/71

-2-

L: In OMB. President talked with Chet Holifield on the plane and said he wasn't going to do that.

K: I remember it well.

L: At breakfast he said go ahead but I can't do everything he wants unless he gives me a memo.

K: I will check on it. I will talk about it more. The President will lay into Gromyko about linking to offensive things and on the missile build up.

L: Paul doesn't think the negotiators have any information on that except what we give them. The military keeps it close to the belt.

TELCORN
Sen. Percy/Kissinger

11:40 a.m.

9/30/71

P: Here's what the result of my analysis is. I can give a pair with Allot whose father died last night. I would go for it and I can withdraw my vote and that gives you one. Hatfield wants to cut off funds as well and I said I would refuse and would discourage them on that. A policy statement is preferable to a cut off of x funds. I cannot go or say or vote against it because during the first months here I told you what I thought it was doing here. I had breakfast with Zumwalt today and it's apparent that running down of the Navy and not enough funds and I do want to stand behind the President. I do feel I am going against what I said about never changing my vote but with you coming coming on the 13th --

K: I would come either way.

P: But if I voted opposite I would look like Ralph Smith. I never cast (or reversed?) a vote even with Carswell. I said I would rather leave the Senate without changing my vote but considering Allot is leaving and that he would vote -- excuse me, he would have voted against it. He gave a speech yesterday but without him here I will withhold my vote and that gives you a vote. I will have a hell of a time explaining holding the vote but I will take care of that. I will say I am doing it and to hell with it. I think it's best asx if you and I never talked.

K: OK, Chuck. That's all we can ask.

TELCORN

Dr. Jerome Weisner/Kissinger

4:08 p.m.

9/30/71

K: Mr. President.

W: Don't say that. Only one in your life. Can you hear me?

K: Yes.

W: I can't hear you. Do you know about a World Soviet Peace Symposium?

K: Where?

W: Moscow.

K: xixxx Never heard of it.

W: How valuable isx for you to take part in symposium? (Quotes those attending, including Millionshekov). Kindly ask you to take part. All expenses paid by the Soviet side.

K: I don't know about this.

W: Paul doesn't have it either. "Drawing up program. Apply for a visa at the Soviet Embassy."

K: Don't know about it.

W: Signed Millionschekov and Lederoshekov (?). I thought Millionschekov would be in this country xdx which is more disconcerting. I am not interested in going because I am busy. I will stall for a couple of days and see if you hear anything.

K: Let me know when you are donw next. I was out of town when you were last here.

TELCOM
Sisco/Kissinger

5:35 p. m.

9/30/71

S: I am afraid I can't be very helpful. Secy. and Gnyko went off after
lunch and spoke alone.

K: How long?

S: 40-45 minutes. My suggestion is that you call directly.

K: Hxxxx Who will tell you more? Gromyko or the Secretary?

S: If I were Secretary, which I'm not, I would tell you more.