TELCON
Bryce Harlow/Mr. Kissinger

11:35 a.m. 9/19/72

BH: Henry!

HK: Bryce, my associates who suffer from inflated egos think it isn't worthy of my while to see Albert, and of course, since he is only third in succession to the Presidency, he's--they are right.

BH: It is really quite correct as you were explaining this morning about Le Duc Tho.

HK: But look, why don't you just set up an appointment tomorrow morning?

BH: Well, I've already acted on that--I just finished talking to the Speaker. It is hard with us and is trying ardently to reach Doc Morgan and he expects to lock it in with Doc perhaps today and with Bill Comer today.

HK: Good, should I see him anyway.

BH: Well, I told him, I said now Charles it will help you and Doc a bit-- Dr. Kissinger is quite ready and willing and pleased to come and talk to you. To explain the urgency of this and so I said let me know and he's going to call me back.

HK: Good, now anytime he wants to see me tomorrow morning I'll change my schedule from 9:30 on.

BH: Well, I told him the best time would be at 10:00 and if that fit his schedule I thought we'd be flexible about that.

HK: Exactly. Just don't let my bureaucrats worry you. Whatever he wants I'll do.

BH: Well, I understand why they are frightened of you--I am too. But you know I am scared of the Speaker too. I'm also scared of the President.

HK: Listen I recognize the number three guy in the country rates just below me and you know I've got to see somebody.

BH: Yeh, you've got to see the hired help periodically.

CLASSIFIED

Autumn 2002

BRYAN DICK 9/19/72

HK: You know, I've got to see somebody--I don't think it's too
big a comedown to see the Speaker, do you.

BH: No.

HK: And I don't think you'd let it out to the Press anyway, will you/

BH: Not immediately.

HK: So my laws of prestige wouldn't be....

BH: But you know I would afterwards, you see, after they act on this,
I would of course leak to Rollie Evans

HK: Good, well you let me know then.

BH: Good.

DECLASSIFIED

Auth: E012458

Date: 5/1/85
By: B. M.

TELCOM
Bill Timmons/Mr. Kissinger

11:39 a. m. 9/19/72

HK: Hello, Bill-I'm having lunch with Fulbright today, you know I do that about once every six months--is there anything you want me to take up--otherwise, I'll just talk generalities on substance.

BT: The only thing Henry I would hope you could bring up with him is to try to get him to expedite the foreign military aid bill that he is sitting on--it's the one the Senate defeated earlier --had the Brooke amendment in it and they voted against it-- the House has passed it and it is now in his committee and you addressed it this morning briefly but if he holds it to the very last minute with Congress trying to adjourn, it's bad. If you could some way urge him to move on that bill, I think that is the main thing.

HK Okay.

BT: Bye.

TELCORN

Henry Kissinger/Dick Cook

11:55 9/19/72

DC: What about 2:00 -- could you call somewhere in that vicinity Doc.
Morgan

HK: No, I've never called him.

DC: No, I said I could you?

HK: Oh could I--about 2:30

DC: Okay that's fine--just have the WH operator track him down--I don't know exactly where he'll be either in Committee or on the Floor-but she can get him for you. I think the thing you ought to emphasize to Doc is the need for speed and you know we are attempting to avoid a conference --I don't think you have to get into that--the preference vis-a-vis --I think what he needs more than anything else is the rationale for __________ this week. However they determine to figure out how to do that--it's up to them. But I think if you could cut him a little bit on how the essential ingredient of speed and why it is essential--I'd just as soon prefer that you don't go beyond Doc to Zabloci (?) or the Speaker or anyone else--we've already got too many guys--

HK: Well now Bill Timmons must have told you we have already gone to the Speaker.

DC: Yeh.
Harlow

HK: Well I turned <u>halow</u> to the Speaker.

DC: Who?

HK: Bryce Harlow.

DC: When did that happen?

HK: This morning at the breakfast.

DC: Oh for Christ's sake. What to do? What's he supposed to do? What is he supposed to ask for <u>ix</u> from the Speaker?

HK: A rule--

DC: Oh Jesus Christ--

Page 2

HK: Now you know how I feel. You know I'm just a baby; I don't know anything.

DC: I wouldn't mind it if I had a lousy track record--I've got a goddamn good one and I wished to God they'd--they have Mel Laird in the act, they have Scoop calling everybody.

HK: They've got Mel Laird in the acto too?

DC: Well yeh, Scoop figured him to get in there. Make guys like Zabloci and Morgan all nervous.

HK: We should not have Laird in the act.

DC: Well Scoop has ix him in there. No the quieter we are --I want it as quietly as possible.

HK: Okay. I'll call Morgan at 2:30

DC: Fine. On the need for speed and action this week one way or the other. And I don't see how that can possibly interfer with anything that Bryce is doing with the Speaker.

HK: No.

DECLASSIFIED

Authentic
E0172958

BR. NARA Dae 5/1/68

TELOON
Bill Timmons/Kissinger

12:00 nonn 9/19/72

BT: Henry, Bill Timmons, I just wanted to update you on the foreign military aid -- the Foreign Relations Committee just reported it out. I think a low figure we're trying to get the details. Scott, Fulbright and Mansfield voted against it. Even though it was reported out, so you might require Fulbright at you lunch what they --

HK: Right.

BT: It has a boxx Brooke amendment in it and they did something on Bangladesh and I think they are using 72 budget figures so it's quite low for us --we'll have to pick it up on the Floor, but there is no sense in asking him to pick it out because it is already out.

HK: Huh, huh.

BT: Good. Okay.

TELCOM

Isaac Stern/Mr. Kissinger

9/19/72 12:04 p.m.

HK: Nice to hear from you.

IS: Nice to hear your voice. I just got back from Europe.

HK: Where are you?

IS: I'm in New York. I'm coming down to Washington next week.

HK: Are you preforming?

IS: Yeh, for the World Bank, no less.

HK: Oh god.

IS: Tuesday night.

IS: All Mozart and Bach program with the Orchestra.

HK: I adore Mozart.

IS: At the Kennedy Center. Tuesday night.

HK: I'm not absolutely sure I will be in town.

IS: I'll be coming in probably on the 25th--are you going to be around at all?

HK: Ah yes. Are you still here on the 27th?

IS: I can be at breakfast.

HK: Let's aim for breakfast on the 27th.

IS: Easily.

HK: Good.

IS: In the meanwhile if you can manage the other I'll be at the Watergate and call you office when I come in.

HK: Will you do that? It'll be great to see you again.

IS: Look forward to seeing you and by the way the evening of the 26th, are you there also do you think?

HK: I'm not absolutely sure I'll be in town--it depends on the President.

TELCONE

Mr. Kissinger/Marvin Kalb

12:08 p.m. 9/19/72

MK: How are you, sir?

HK: Okay.

MK: Good, I just wanted to double check with you--we left that film of you and your family --you should have had it on your desk a week ago. I just wanted to make sure you got it.

HK: No. No.

MK: You did not?

HK: I wouldn't let that worry me -- they are probably staffing it through the WH now, and back to the department. It'll probably get it in six months.

MK: Well I would like to double check that because we did run over specifically within a day.

HK: Arent you nice. I'll find it --I have no question.

MK: Now point number two. When we talked last time you asked for a letter

HK: No that won't be necessary. But the think that I really question is this. In principle, I now would be willing to do it at 6:00 on a Sunday, but when there is a football going on at the same time, there --it really is ridiculous for me to take an hour network time--who the hell is going to watch it. I mean let's be realistic. I mean I recognize that 6:00 may be a good time on a winter Sunday, but when there is a football game going on, it really--I mean I just as well hold a press conference for the press alone. You know this is the case.

MK: I frankly did not check on any kind of--

HK: NBC has a football game--I had agreed to do it as a matter of fact, but now I have really very serious doubts whether--if I go on television I really should do it in a slot in which there is a football game on NBC at the same time.

MK: Well now you are throwing something at me that I frankly hadn't been prepared for. I didn't know anything about a football game.

HK: So, I think we are back to our original problem. (end of tape)

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TELCONE

page 2

HK: ...... (new tape) Haldeman to agree that I should do it on the 1st
at that time slot based on your assurance that there would be no
football game, but we've checked and we find there is a football game.

MK: I see. I don't know what to day. I don't have a counter argument
to a football game, I just--it didn't even occur to me.

HK: I just think that that knocks in the head of a lot of the things were
said that this is a good time--it probably is a good time on a winter--
Let me talk to Haldeman, again. Because I was prepared to have
it taped on the 29th.

MK: Yeh. I would certainly hope that we could still do that. I just had
no sense by this football thing Henry and I am completely thrown
by it and you've let me a little speechless. I don't know exactly
what I could say in answer to that.

HK: Well, let me talk to Haldeman again.

MK: All right. Thank you.

TELCORN

Fred Brisson/Mr. Kissinger

12:12 p. m., September 19, 1972

K: Hello!

B: How are you, dear Henry?

K: Freddy, how are you.

B: I just want to know if you are available to co-star in a
Hollywood picture with Diane Cannon, Raquel Welch,
Saller Kellerman and Mae West?

K: (Laughter) I'm not sure Diane Cannon exists.

K: You remember R.... and I had the Peck's send you a
cable.

B: I know and I replied to it.

K: Oh, it was a funny cable you sent back.

B: It was a marvelous cable; we woke up and had coffee and
roared with laughter and we thought this was a very great
nerve on our part and you were replying all over the place.

K: Well, all I can tell you is if you send me cables like this
and I might just throw up.

B: Anyway, it was a fun party and you missed a great evening
but, Diane was there and sat next to me and Raquel Welch
---you never saw such a group that we had. They all
happened to be down there making movies.

K: I know that, are they in the same movie.

B: Yes, they are--but there were a few others that was not in
the movie like Paula Prentice, and so forth. Then, of course,
I think it was the next day or the day before a big story came
out in the Tribune saying that you were going to test for a
Hollywood career. You saw that story, didn't you.

K: You know, I have reached a point now where every assinine
thing I say gets reported. Somebody asked me on an airplane
what am I going to do after I finish? I said I planted the grass
roots for a Hollywood career.

B: That's right, it was a marvelous story, so when somebody

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TELCONE

Fred Brisson/Mr. Kissinger

12:12 p.m., September 19, 1972

B (contd) asks me do you know what Kissinger is going to do. I say, yes, I know. Isaid he's coming straight to Hollywood, he's taking a seven year contract.

K: Absolutely.

B: Henry, Rosalind, I don't know whether you know or not, has a Presidential appointment for the National Council of the Arts, and the National endowment for the arts, and we came back from Europe about a week ago, and she went straight to California but she's coming into Washington on Friday. They start meetings on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, so I'm going to come down for the weekend and just wondering whether you are going to be there and whether we might get a glimpse of you over the weekend.

K: This coming Friday?

B: Yes, this coming Friday. They have meetings all day Friday, you know. And they have that thing Friday night, a show of some kind. Are you free Saturday?

K: Not for dinner, but I might be free for lunch.

B: All right, then, what don't you and I plan to have lunch together and I'll find out what Rosalind's schedule is at lunch time and --- is this an important meeting of some kind.

K: Yes, a friend of mine is down here, Nancy Maginnes, have you met her.

B: Yes, I think I met her with you up in New York once.

K: I think that's right. At any rate ---

B: But, Saturday night you are definitely busy.

K: Saturday night, I'm almost certainly busy. A friend of mine from Europe is coming in.

B: Well, let's tentatively settle for lunch if that's all right.

K: Well, we could have a drink that afternoon, if that's better for us.

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TELCON

Fred Brisson/Mr. Kissinger

B: Well, I'll find out what her schedule is, Henry, and we will be at the Carlton, because most of the meetings are going to take place there, and stay through Sunday. Oh, are you going to that party for on Sunday.

K: I'm not sure.

B: Anyway, Roz said no, because she wants to up to visit with her sister in Connecticut. She has missed seeing her so long. Tell me, are you going to be in Los Angeles by any chance around the 21st of October--you wouldn't know that far--

K: I wouldn't know that far ahead. I'll be there the first week of November, certainly.

B: You will! Good. As a matter of fact, I'm bringing my show to Washington in December. The one we had here in New York for a year. We'll be at the National Theater about December 15th.

K: Yes, great. Will you be down with it.

B: Oh, I'll probably be down at some point. But look, Henry, I'll check with you, say on Friday. Is that all right?

K: Absolutely.

B: And, if Rosalind cannot have lunch, then maybe we'll have a drink or something, but you and I will have lunch, and you say that Nancy will be there, too.

K: Right.

B: Lovely talking with you and I'll see you on Friday.

K: Look forward to it. Bye.

TELCOM

Brice Harlow/Mr. Kissinger

2:36 p.m., September 19, 1972

K: Hello.

H: Henry, I had an astonishing call from The Speaker. He braced himself for Doc Morgan, and told me he wanted to move this right off and thought this was all right with Morgan. I said well, wait just a minute, have you got that--Morgan to Albert, and Albert said no I haven't, but I know about it and want to get it out of the way in a hurry, and want to move it this week. Morgan said I going to read it this afternoon. What you are trying to do is take this away from the House with language that converts this into a treaty instead of a grant, and I don't know whether I would agree to that. Carl said that I'd put my money on his insistence that they would go to conference and CONFERENCE stands with him on a vote of confidence, after that conversation. He said I thought you told me that Doc Morgan was in favor of this. I said, well I did Carl, and that's what I understood.

K: Well, you know on the whole business we have too many staff members who are playing the game with Jackson. This is something that does us no good, no God damn good.

H: Carl, himself, said he had talked with Jackson and that he was in full agreement with him. He told him he was with Doc Morgan on this Zablonki proposition. That's apparently the problem.

K: I frankly think we ought to go to conference and the Senate ought to yield. We don't need the God damn Jackson amendment.

H: This would mean it could not be handled this week.

K: Why?

H: There is not time to get it done that fast. At any rate, I wanted to let you know was what looked like absolutely easy sailing, was suddenly foundered on the rock of Doc Morgan.

K: Does Zablocki know this.

H: I haven't been able to get in touch with him yet, and I've tried to reach Bill Simmons, he's up with Hugh Scott, and have tried to reach Gary Eord, he's on the Policy Committee meeting, but all the experience we had at breakfast time with Doc Morgan is all right on this.

K: For six weeks now, I have been plugging along while those people

DECLASSIFIED
Author: EOL7958
Date: 9/19/95

BRAUN

GARY DUE

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TELECON

B. Harlow/Mr. Kissinger

2:36 p.m., September 19, 1972

amendment

on our staff who want the Jackson/that I have never wanted
on the argument that it stressed the thing two more days
and it will sail through and we are paying an enormous foreign
policy thing. It is also paying campaign ---- I mentioned
this because we are a hell of a lot better off with the signing
ceremony on Salt than with the Jackson amendment. Wouldn't
you say.

H: Of course, that's right. Well, Carl told, and Doc Morgan, my conversation, of proposition that you and I come up and visit with him and Doc Morgan. Morgan has that preserved also.

K: Look, they asked me to call Morgan, and I'm just going to tell him I want the God damn thing moved, I don't much care how it moves.

H: It'll move damned fast.

K: Yes.

has

H: Well, that's the point, and/somebody told you; u about Morgan's sliding off. before I called.

K: No, all I have was the call this morning.

H: Right now, he is probably with his conferees.

K: That explains why he won't return my call.

H: That's exactly right, and what he is doing is blocking them in to probably a fixed position that we will not accept that.

K: Then we will have to accept the House Bill. I want the God damned thing passed. Jackson has won his point, we've gone further with him than we should have and that's it. We can't have another full week that long.

H: Well, I'm trying to reach everybody that was talking so big about Morgan.

K: I don't want to have another run started on Morgan which will delay us two weeks.

H: You are trying to make him hold.

95CLASSIFIED

8/22/72 10:01

B. HARLOW DIC 5/21/72

TELCONE

Dave Kroslow/Mr. Kissinger

2:44 p.m., September 19, 1972

K: Hello

DK: Henry, It was good to see you last night.

K: I enjoyed seeing you.

DK: How are things going?

K: What do you mean?

DK: I don't know. Just wanted to see how you are. Say, I've
got a little bit of a problem. One of the new guys on the staff
here, Oswald Johnson, I think I mentioned him to you the other
night, is working on the Salt II piece--he's has been getting a
lot of conflicting news from within the Government, and he
would like to go to one place where he can put it all together ,
would it be possible for you to see him?

K: Depends on how soon.

DK: Well, the sooner the better. You know, obviously, we want
it at your convenience.

K: Well, I'll try to do it before the end of the week.

DK: If you could, it would be most helpful. Okay, I'll leave it in
your hands and if you can help on this, I would be much obliged.

K: Right.

DK: Is everything else all right.

K: Everything else is fine.

DK: Good, I'd like to call you for lunch.

K: Good, do that.

DK: All right.

K: Nice to talk to you. Goodbye.

DK: Bye.

CLASSIFIED
DECEMBER 30, 1975

AUGUST 24, 1975
BY: ANNA DUE S/10/01

TELCONE

Amb. Koscinsko-Morizet/Mr. Kissinger

2:55 P.M., September 19, 1972

K: Hello Mr. Ambassador.

KM: Hello, congratulations on your trip.

K: It remains to be seen. I very much enjoyed my meeting with your President. I thought it was very useful.

KM: Thank you.

K: I wanted to tell you two things. One, we are sending you a decision on this General Electric engine. You know what I'm talking about.

KM: Yes.

K: As I explained to your President, will not be favorable but does not preclude reopening it in January, and we are looking into another possibility. I've explained all of this to your President. And I just wanted to make clear that you don't misunderstand what that formal decision means. It is within the framework of my discussions with the President, but however, I would like to keep confidential. Secondly, when I talked to your President he pointed out to me that a French official would say anything about Vietnam in this delicate period. I've been reading press accounts by your Prime Minister and those of the three party government of the North Vietnamese yesterday when Le Duc Tho or whoever it was called on this. That really makes things very difficult for us.

KM: Yes, yes.

K: He hasn't denied that the North Vietnamese has claimed that he recorded it. He absolutely will not yield no matter what anybody says. So, it's not a useful thing to say, just makes our negotiations more difficult.

KM: I think has not seen that. I don't know.

K: You know, the President and I had no complaint about the President.

KM: I'm sure Mr. McMayer had spoken with any one who didn't done so as a routine, recalling an old position, but of course I understand your point of view.

K: This is not official demand. We won't make it official. Just a personal one.

DECLASSIFIED
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Date: 5/1/97

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TELCONE

2:55 p.m., September 19, 1972

KM: Well, as you know, I look forward to seeing you when it is possible for you, and as you know too, Mr. Schumann will arrive Saturday night and we spend two days in Washington--Friday and Sunday.

K: This week?

KM: This week, he will see--

K: We will try to arrange a meeting with the President. I don't know whether it's possible this week.

KM: Of course.

K: When he comes back from New York, if necessary. We will definitely arrange a meeting with the President.

KM: Yes, well in about a week you think. You know, I think you will understand it is difficult to explain by telephone, but in all--because of--it would be very useful for me because you know I have to play such a game, and very often I'm in a difficult position.

K: I know your position, I'm in all the time.

KM: I would appreciate--

K: We will work it out.

KM: Thank you very much.

K: While he is in America, let's see if we can do it this Friday.

KM: Yes, and occasionally I know you are free about this question and that is what some time, for instance, a breakfast or something like that.

K: Would he like that.

KM: Oh yes, surely.

K: All right, well, when.

KM: It's possible for you Friday?

TELCONE

Dick Cook/Mr. Kissinger

9/19/72 3:30 p.m. (?)

DC: Henry, Dick Cook. What did Doc say, did you get ahold of him?

HK: Well, he won't return my call.

DC: Of for Christ's sake.

HK: And Bryce Harlow--well because I tried him at 2:30 and he was on the Floor and he hasn't returned the call yet.

DC: Uh huh. What did Bryce say?

HK: Bryce says that Albert talked to him, that he does not agree with the proposition that it should bypass the conference because that would make the Senate the dominant thing and make it like a treaty and now I feel that we have just horsed around long enough. And I want this goddamn treaty to go through.

DC: Uh huh.

HK: I've heard now for six weeks that this Jackson amendment was under good control and that only two more days and if the House won't take the Senate version, since the Senate conferees are willing to accept the House version, let's do it that way. I know there are a lot of egos involved but they don't happen to be in this office.

DC: Are you sure? (laughing)

HK: Well, you can have John Lehman if you want him on your side. He is long for being on my staff, I can tell you that.

DC: (laughing) Well, I think it is still essential that you talk to Doc on the timing. In other words, we could get in the conference whichever way they go if they insist upon going to conference, we would still need speed and --

HK: Well, no, I can't talk to Doc if he doesn't return my call.

DC: Yeh. He's a wierd one--he floats around up there--he probably hasn't even gotten the message to call you yet.

HK: I called him about 45 minutes ago and I don't think that it is a personal thing, but Albert--he was very tough with Albert.

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Page 2

HK: And he insists on a conference. Now if he wants a conference since the Senate conferees--

DC: Did you talk to Bryce?

HK: Yeh. Since the Senate conferees want to jettison the Jackson amendment, I don't see how we are going to get it through.

DC: I know, it's a mess.

HK: The whole thing has been a goddamn nightmare, started by some ________ people on my staff so I can't complain

DC: Well, what's Bryce say? That is sort of--pardon me for saying so--sort of ticked me off, goddamn it all. Bryce is a great guy but--

HK: But Timmons was sitting there when all this was happening.

DC: That goddamn Ford it doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

HK: At any rate we are now back where we were.

DC: Yep. And if we get the conference, Times and all the wiseacre reporters will be there trying to generate a fight and try to get us in the middle of it.

HK: Well it is nothing like what is going to happen if that treaty is not being ratified, because we want to add an amendment to a goddamn treaty which the President himself signed in Moscow. I mean we don't have a leg to stand on with the Russians.

DC: What is the significance of October 3.

HK: Well, we need it for our own reasons. That's when Groymko is going to be here. But it isn't going to be any better on October 10.

DC: Well the Speaker of the House--the present Speaker between you and me is a very weak speaker--

HK: Look if you can get it through the House without a conference, I'm delighted, but one thing we have just got to end now is this endless palaver on something I didn't want to begin with.

DC: I agree. I still think it would be useful to talk to Doc.

HK: I will as soon as he returns my call.

Page 3

DC: Right. Because the Speaker's talked with him and that was miscall on that meeting this morning. The Speaker has his mind on Korean broads and booze more than he does on business and he is hardly in the position to--if we had the old Speaker here, he'd call three or four people in is office and he'd straighten them out and say let's get it done--the President wants it done and it will be done. This guy doesn't operate that way.

HK: That would be the ideal. I have no objection to getting it done that way. My objection is to a continuation of what's been going on for six weeks. Every week I was told two more days and the thing would go away and it's getting worse and worse.

DC: Okay. Are you going to be around tomorrow?

give

HK: But will you guys now get it passed--I really don't think that Jackson has had his run. It won't make any difference in the negotiations.

DC: Right. And the next go around is the treaty right? Not interim agreement--that's what the House seems to be hung up on.

HK: Well, the next go round is we can't start SALT too until we get this damn thing passed.

DC: But I mean the language--the difference of the language of the House and Senate passed bills--is Zabloci seems to be hung up on the need for maintaining the fact that the House will have a crack at it next time--next time around I believe you publicly announced would probably would go up as a treaty right?

HK: Yeh.

DC: Okay. I will try to track down Doc--I think you have to talk to him--the Speaker's talking to him doesn't do a bit good.

HK: Get him to call me. I'll be eager to talk to him.

DC: Okay.

DECLASSIFIED
Auth: E012958

Date: 5/1/91

From: B. A. Date: 5/1/91

TELCONE

Marvin Kall/Mr. Kissinger

3:30 p. m. 9/19/72

MK: I'm sorry to trouble you again so quickly. I have been thinking about
what you said since talking with you and if you bear with me I'd like
to make a 30second speech. I've been thinking about it since our call.

HK: Right.

MK: This is really--and I say this with as much sincerity as I can put into
my voice--this has been a labor of love and commitment on my part for
about a year.

HK: I know it.

MK: And we have wanted back in April and May and again in June and even
early this month to do it at exactly the time that you want it and for
very good and substantive reasons you couldn't make it then.

HK: Which are out of my control.

MK: I say that--I appreciate that. And CBS comes to me with their problem
of in-season and all of that and throws this October 1st thing and then
you come back on the football side--and I am powerless on that. The on
thing that I would say is that I really feel very deeply that this could be a
excellent broadcast.

HK: Well, someone else told me that this is an hour you've set aside for the
political campaign.

MK: Oh no, that was during the summer.

HK: Because if that were true, I couldn't do it at all.

MK: No that was during the summer. This is the 60 minute slot and the
sixty minutes as a matter of fact, I believe, has it's premier this
sunday, I believe. But the political stuff was just summer re-run stuff.
It is not applicable and is not true. But I just have this sense that it could
be a very valid, solid and important broadcast.

HK: I have turned it over to Haldeman and he will take it up with the Presiden
and whatever these two gentlement decide I shall do.

MK: I see.

HK: I don't think I should get into it.

MK: Into the deliberation of it?

BROKEN

0012255

AUTHOR'S DECEDE

BY MIRA DERE 5/19/72

TELCOM

Senator McCarthy/Kissinger

3:55 p.m. - 9/19/72

K: Hello.

M: Hello, how are you? You're as hard to get as Edward Bennett
Williams.

K: Oh, Jesus.

M: Listen, it's nothing urgent. I wanted to talk to you sometime about that China thing. For two reasons - one, I'm getting a little more pressure to get involved in this campaign and if I could get out of the country . .

K: During the campaign?

M: Before the campaign is over.

K: Do you want to have breakfast Saturday morning or are you out of town?

M: I tell you - I'm going to be gone; I got to go to New York tomorrow at 10:30 and I from there I think I have to go to California on - well, I know I have to go on Friday. I'll be gone Friday and Saturday - probably until Tuesday.

K: Could we have breakfast then say the following week or lunch?

M: All right. If we can set something for about Wednesday of next week?

K: Wednesday I'll probably not be here but how about Thursday or Friday?

M: All right. Either one of those days I'll keep open.

K: Let's aim for breakfast on Friday.

M: Friday the . . .

K: 29th I guess.

M: All right we'll say breakfast on Friday the 29th and what I was thinking about Henry would be if I could probably about the middle of October if I could be gone for a couple weeks then but we can talk about that on the 29th.

DECCLASSIFIED
Date 01/27/55
By: MFA Date 01/27/55

TELCONE

Senator Mansfield/Kissinger

4:00 p.m. - 9/19/72

K: Hello.

M: Yes, Henry.

K: Senator, I'm seeing our friends this evening.

M: Good.

K: And you were going to think about the timing. You know I don't know
what their answer will be or whether indeed if they have an answer.

M: You didn't see them before you left?

K: I saw them before I left and made the proposition to them without
indicating anything about the date and they, of course, were in no
position to reply.

M: Well, what would you think about the 10th?
there is

K: The problem you face Senator is that/almost no way of doing it without
announcing it say about a week before you go.

M: Oh, I see.

K: And I don't want to put you into an embarrassing position.

M: Well, no and I wouldn't want to put the Administration into one.

K: As far as the President is concerned, he is delighted to do it even
on the date you suggested.

M: Well, I understand that and I appreciate it.

K: And make the announcement ahead of time, but it is a fact that
certain implications might be read into it which you know you hadn't
thought about.

M: That's right - neither one of us want that. How about the 15th?

K: All right. So if they come back with a positive answer I'll say
15th to be announced the 7th or 8th.

M: Sure.

TELCONE

Dick Cook/Kissinger

10:15 a.m. - 9/20/72

C: Henry, maybe about sometime between 4 or 5 this evening would you be available for about 5 minutes with Abshire. At this point on the Jackson controversy I think it would be appropriate for us to get together for 5 minutes.

K: Right, but I hope you all understand we do not have unlimited time for this.

C: Right, exactly, the time frame is important but this whole thing from the beginning has been a series of errors and I think the one way to avoid that at this point is. . .

K: Can we get it done by October 2nd?

C: I think so.

K: If it isn't done by September 27th you can forget about it.

C: Understood. Understood. What I would like to see - how about you and Abshire who is our top guy talk to you and me and. .

K: I can't do it at 4; I can do it about 6.

C: 6 o'clock. Fine. And no need for any more than 5 minutes but if need be this ought to be done on a daily basis so that you know everything that's going on and so we can avoid any further errors.

K: 6 o'clock.

C: 6 o'clock in your office.

K: Good.

C: OK.

TELCON

Sec. Rogers/Kissinger

11:44 a.m. - 9/20/72

K: Hello.

R: Hello.

K: Hi Bill.

R: Yeh, Henry. A couple of things - you mentioned to me what Pompidou said about the IMF meeting and I was a little uncertain what you said.

K: What he said was that he hoped we wouldn't make any proposals that were so concrete that they would have to take a formal position and that they thought it would be better to have prior consultation because they would try to approach it in a constructive spirit like in the Azores. They thought that the Smithsonian model was a better way of doing it than making unilateral American statements that would come as a surprise to them. Now that doesn't preclude making general statements but if we have a very concrete plan coming - I just don't know about it.

R: I'm glad that...

K: You've been consistent with what I heard you mention in passing to the President a few weeks ago.

R: It is. It is. George Shultz had a little different - now don't quote me because when you talk to many people on many subjects there may be some impreciseness - but he felt that what you had said to him was that Pompidou said that if we were going to make a specific proposal to talk to him first about it which indicated that he would be prepared to have us make specific proposals. And I said no, that I thought what he was saying was don't make them now.

K: That is correct and I'm having breakfast with George tomorrow morning. Besides there won't be time to discuss them with Pompidou now.

R: Well, you could -- well, that's right.

K: I mean, he didn't want to be informed; he wanted to have a chance to agree.

R: Yeah, that's what I said yesterday at our meeting, that consultation to them doesn't mean we just notify you. It means that they want to have a chance to talk it over with you and tell us their views.

CLASSIFIED

E012955

Autumn Date 09/20/72

TELCON
Secretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger

11:44 a.m., September 20, 1972

K: Oh, yeah. No, no; my impression is that what he wants is an
opportunity to see whether they and we can't work out at least a
ballpark agreement first and then there will be still time enough
to fight each other.

R: Yeah.

K: It didn't seem like an unreasonable proposal to me.

R: Well, George has a problem and he'll talk to you about it. We had
another meeting yesterday. He feels, and I think his people feel,
understandably so, that he's got to be something other than
platitudinous and when you get into stating general principles without
any illustrations or indications really of what you're talking about,
it sounds pretty hollow. So he has to, if he's going to make his
speech and he's got to make a speech; he's committed to it, he's
got to say something that shows the direction of our thinking. We're
now in the area of how precise can you be without being too precise;
how specific can you be without causing trouble. I lend toward
the view that I'd rather take a chance on being general than being
too specific for a lot of reasons.

K: Frankly, that's my view. I was of a slightly different view I have
to confess before I saw Pompidou I thought there might be an
advantage in being specific but if by being specific we trigger a
brawl without having a chance of achieving anything in a short time,
than I think we are better off trying first to talk to him. We can
always be specific.

R: Furthermore, the working session doesn't even start probably until
after the election of the Deputies -- the Deputy Ministers meeting
where they like to get on and try to forge something out. So there will
be a period of time between this IMF meeting and the working session
so we'd have plenty of time to be more specific later. Well, alright,
that clarifies things.

K: You can count on my making this absolutely clear to George tomorrow
at breakfast.

R: Okay, because what you just told me is my recollection. Another
thing I wanted to talk to you about is Gene McCarthy came in to see
me yesterday and said he had talked to you. He doesn't want to take
part in the McGovern campaign.

DEC 21 1972 5:10:04

8502103

BROA.DIC 5/10/04

TELCONE

K: Yeah, he wants to go to China.

R: Why can't we work it out for him? I think it's a good idea.

K: But, how? There are two ways of doing it. One is through Ottawa.
The other is through Paris.

R: Yeah. Why don't we just -- can't we do it through Paris?

K: I have no objection.

R: My thought was that he would just apply just like anybody else does
and we'll indicate to the Chinese that if they could see their way clear
to approve him.

K: We have a deal with them that they will not let political figures come
alone, you know, which is useful. But we can say we don't consider
him a partisan figure.

R: When you say alone, you mean --

K: Well, they always have to have them in teams, a Democrat and a
Republican.

R: Oh, I see. Christ, he's nothing at the moment.

K: Well, that's just something we ought to let them know.

R: Yeah, we can tell them.

K: I'd be delighted to --

R: He says that what he'd like to do is he would go to some other places
just as a private citizen out of the country. Maybe stop in Japan.
He's got some work to do in Europe or something that he could be out
the whole month of October.

K: I think it would be terrific.

R: I do too. I thought we'd get Wilbur Mills to go on a Presidential
assignment --

K: (laughter)

TELCONE

- 4 -

R: He accepted at first, he really did. Then he got to thinking about it -- (laughter) -- and backed away.

K: Mansfield wanted to go to China at one point but he's backed away from it too.

R: Yeah, but if we get Wilbur Mills to go to -- it was a Trade Fair or something in Romania -- as a Presidential Assistant, wouldn't that be great?

K: Oh, God, that would.

R: He said yes. And I got Johnny Burns and they were both going together and then he got to thinking about it.

K: That goddamn McGovern has a way of turning people off.

R: He sure does. But I'll just go ahead and --

K: By all means.

R: And we just do it low key just as if anybody else but we'll try to encourage them to accept him. You know, give him a visa soon.

K: Right.

R: On the prisoner of war thing, that seems to be moving along alright.

K: Yeah, I think that your draft cable is the right way of handling it.

R: Yeah, I think so. We're all in agreement on it.

K: Right.

R: Thank you, Henry.

K: Right.

wgh

TELCONE
Dave Kraslow/Mr. Kissinger

2:43 p.m., September 20, 1972

HK: Dave, how are you?

DK: Okay. Henry, I'm sorry to bother you. There are a couple of things I wanted to take up with you and I should have mentioned to you yesterday and I just -- they just escaped me. One, very privately, okay. Kalb of course is doing a book on you and they have expressed an interest in interviewing me in connection with that book and I wanted to ascertain your feelings on that.

HK: I have no objection but why should they interview you?

DK: Well, they think I know you. (laughter)

HK: No, I'm delighted. No, no; you have known me for longer.

DK: Well, I mean, that's the reason he wanted to interview me, to find out something about you. Find out what I know about you. You have no objection?

HK: No.

DK: Okay. Two, you said something at Bill's party which intrigued me and I would like to have Ozzie pursue it if you are of a mind. And that is, you indicated the possibility that you might reorganize the NSC staff or there was some question in your mind in what your role might be in the --

HK: Not so much what my role might be. It's just that I think after 4 years you always ought to shake up your organization.

DK: Right, you said that. Those are almost the identical words you used. But you also, I thought, indicated that you weren't quite sure what you would be doing in a second Nixon Administration.

HK: Yeah.

DK: Would this be something you would be willing to explore with Ozzie?

HK: No.

DK: You say not?

TELCONE

Dave Kraslow/Mr. Kissinger

2:43 p.m., September 20, 1972

- 2 -

HK: No; that part, not. The question of possible reorganization, yes.

DK: Well, alright, can you do that? Could he sit down and talk to you about that? I think that would be an interesting story.

HK: Well, let me think about it.

DK: Okay. Do we know where we stand on the SALT thing? The matter I talked to you yesterday about.

HK: Remind me.

DK: You know, that Johnson is doing a story on SALT.

HK: Oh, yes, yes. Look, I'll let you know tomorrow morning.

DK: Tomorrow morning?

HK: Right.

DK: Fine. As to whether he sees you or Sonnenfeldt?

HK: Right.

DK: Because he wants to do a very balanced piece and he is getting all kinds of loaded opinions about --

HK: Well, he should start probably with Sonnenfeldt and Odeen and then I'll see him to clean up any questions.

DK: Oh, great. Well, if you can arrange for him to see Sonnenfeldt, that would be beautiful.

HK: I will.

DK: And you will let me know tomorrow morning?

HK: Right.

DK: Thank you, Henry. And I'll tell him that you're also interested in the NSC thing and that you will keep that in mind in the future.

HK: Right.

DK: Thank you.

HK: Bye.

TELCONE

Senator Javits/Kissinger

3:05 p.m. - 9/20/72

K: Hello.

J: Henry.

K: Hi Jack.

J: ... I don't know where you're safe these days.

K: I'm safest in Moscow or Peking.

J: That's right. Listen, a little storm's blowing up here and I think
sometime soon you and I better talk about.

K: Yes, I'm most anxious to talk to you about it.

J: So, well you know your time better than I do.

K: Can I get my office to call you this afternoon?

J: Yeh.

K: And let's make breakfast or lunch.

J: You couldn't do it tomorrow could you?

K: No, I have a breakfast tomorrow. How about Saturday or won't you be in town?

J: Saturday I won't be here. What are you doing? Are you going to be in New York over the weekend?

K: No, I'm not. How about Friday?

J: Friday I'll be back here. I've got to go up to make a speech in the morning but I'll be back. I'll tell you if you could see me Friday I'd even try to shift the damn speech around and make it a little later. So let's let our offices match it up.

K: Good. Because I think you and I ought to talk.

J: Very seriously at the earliest time and I'm anxious to see you anyhow.

K: Good. Wonderful.

TELCOM

Stewart Alsop/Mr. Kissinger

4:06 p.m., September 20, 1972

K: Stu, I was going to call you today.

A: Did the Russians have a cure?

K: No, the Russians think that you are getting exactly the right treatment and they've just given me a letter to that effect.

A: Oh, wonderful, I'd like to see it. It would give pleasure to my friend, John Glick.

K: But they say from that medical history it can go on a long time.

A: That's what we all hoped.

K: And they are working on it. They say it is an area in which they are extremely active and their Minister of Health with whom I talked personally told me that he would make this -- keep this under constant review, you know, if there were anything at all.

A: Have they had cases like mine?

K: They had cases like yours they said in which there were histories of 10 years.

A: Well, that's a good long time. Who wants to live any older than 68 anyway?

K: Well, they think if it were to last that long, you know, that this is an area in which there is progress being made.

A: Yeah, there is a lot. Well, it was really awfully kind of you to take the trouble anyway, Henry.

K: But I will send this to you now that I've talked to you.

A: Good. Any chance of a meal next week? Are you off hopping about or might you have a moment?

K: How about Thursday?

A: Thursday would be wonderful.

K: Good, a week from tomorrow.

CLASSIFIED

Published 9/27/72
BY ORDER OF THE PRESIDENT

5/27/72

TELCOM
Stewart Alsop/Mr. Kissinger

4:06 p.m., September 20, 1972

A: A week from tomorrow. Should I come to you or would you like to come to a more comfortable and more edible meal?

K: Like Sans Souci?

A: Like Sans Souci.

K: Or can you not afford to be seen with me?

A: I can well afford to be seen with you.

K: You've been slamming us around, you owe us one.

A: That's right. I've gotten my own in with the Watergate case which I'm sure you'll agree with me is a pretty revolting business.

K: Oh, yes.

A: Good. Well, let's --

K: I just think that a McGovern victory would be such a horrible disaster that nothing justifies a McGovern victory.

A: I agree entirely. That's why people aren't listening to the Watergate thing.

K: Well, I find the Watergate thing the combination of stupidity and immorality. I'm speaking now as Henry Kissinger.

A: As children, we used to have a word, "______"

K: Yeah, I can't imagine what they were trying to accomplish.

A: I can't either, I can't either.

K: On top of everything else.

A: Nevertheless the facts are there and it's a very nasty business and I don't think I'm being partisan when I say that. I just think it is. I don't think Teddy Kennedy -- I've been doing some reporting on that -- their real hope, their only hope is that Teddy Kennedy will stage a real circus. And he's being put under immense pressure to do so but I don't believe he will because he doesn't want to get hurt himself.

TELCON
Stewart Alsop/Mr. Kissinger
4:06 p.m., September 20, 1972

K: Yeah, yeah.

A: Let's make it 1 o'clock at the Sans Souci.

K: Good. And I'll send you that report that the Russians gave me.

A: I'll see you at 1:00 at the Sans Souci unless I hear differently on Thursday.

K: Good. I gave some money -- today I was speaking somewhere where they were making some donation to something but I told them to give it to the Leukemia Foundation but I didn't mention why I did it.

A: Very good idea.

K: But I'm sure you know.

A: Thank you, Henry. I'll see you on Thursday.

K: Stewart, see you next Thursday.

A: Right.

K: Bye.

wgh

TELCOM

Henry Hubbard/Mr. Kissinger

5:40 p.m., September 20, 1972

H: Hello, Dr. Kissinger, how are you?

K: Okay.

H: Welcome back.

K: Thank you.

H: Glad to see you're visiting the United States and keeping your citizenship intact by dropping back home once in a while.

K: Yeah, well, you just wait until I run for Office.

H: Well, we'll have to change the Constitution but for you we'll do it.

K: We will do it; that's why we're working on it.

H: (laughter) Okay, what can I do for you?

K: You asked me to call you.

H: Well, I asked you to call Rick Smith.

K: Oh, you asked me to call Rick Smith. Okay, I'll call Rick Smith.

H: I guess they will know to explain; they're doing kind of an appreciation of Armstrong.

K: No, I'll call him immediately.

H: Okay.

TELCONE

Senator Murphy/Mr. Kissinger

5:45 p.m., September 20, 1972

M: Doctor.

K: How are you?

M: I'm fine. I wondered if you ever have any time to meet with some old broken down Senatorial hoofers on a matter that might be of some interest. I'll tell you what it is. I had a client who is a Japanese, a very bright fellow, that impressed me so much that I pursued him for two months to get him as a client. He has an expertise that I don't think that anybody else has that I know of and this would be helpful in dealing for instance with northern (?) China. He did a lot of work in translations for the military with regard to the Vietnamization program. It's not easy because you'd get 9 translators and you'd get 9 versions. He built a whole glossary of words for the training manual and things so that the . . . . . . . . was almost completely eliminated. It occurred to me that this might be a capability that might be of use similarly government-wise now with the obvious greater expansion of the dealings with men in China.

K: Well, why don't you call me early -- could you send me his material and something about him first of all.

M: I'll send you a rundown on him and unfortunately I won't be here next week. What I am planning -- I've got some meetings for him and I am trying to get him to come back here in person. I'll send you the material on him and then you might be able to spare 5 minutes sometime to sit down and listen to him. He is quite impressive and a very, very bright intelligent fellow.

K: Good. Why don't you send me that material.

M: I'll do that right away.

K: Good.

M: Thank you very much.

K: Nice to talk with you as always.

M: Thank you, Doctor.

K: Bye.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority F-012352
By LINDA Date 9-20-72

TELCONE

Amb. Dobrynin/Kissinger

6:04 p.m. - 9/20/72

K: Hello.

D: Hello, Henry.

K: Anatol, how are you?

D: I hope everything goes all right. I try but I couldn't make it.

K: Oh, I gave a brilliant speech.

D: I suppose you have a copy.

K: No, I made it extemporaneously.

D: I know in this case . . . Well, I wish they would publish it in the Washington Post or something else.

K: Well it wasn't supposed to be but I've noticed already in some of - Reuters has already a dispatch on it.

D: Oh I see - I'm sure it was on the ticker.

K: I paid tribute to you anyway.

D: (Laugs) Henry, I called about, could I drop in tomorrow for about 10 minutes?

K: Certainly.

D: What's the timing for that?

K: 4:30.

D: 4:30.

K: Yeh, what's the problem?

D: No problem. It's just that Mr. __________ wants me to hear your preliminary observation on this subject that we discussed in a very informal way.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority F012357
By L.P. NARA Date 05/01/57

2

K: You need say no more. I'd be delighted. I called you about the lend-lease negotiation.

D: Excuse me, Henry. . . . . . . . . . . he doesn't want really - he just wants to proceed when you will meet with him.

K: No, I understand. There is no problem. When I don't see you for 24 hours I think we are heading into a crisis.

D: So what's your problem?

K: What is my problem. On your lend lease negotiation, can you keep your . . . . . . from mentioning the agreed figure and just settle all other issues.

D: Overall figure.

K: Yes.

D: I could, of course.

K: Just tell him for a few days not to say anything so that we can prevent leaks over this weekend.

D: OK, Henry, but I remember what you said to me last time about Export-Import Bank you are going to discuss and as for lend-lease to keep until Friday.

K: Yeh, No, we can start talking lend-lease on Friday but just settle all other issues except the final figure.

D: But what else is there - the ______ and the total sum. What else he could say?

K: Well I think there are a lot of legal things to be worked out.

D: Let's say this way - the idea that

K: Early next week I'm going to have it straightened out. It's a pure internal problem here.

D: Oh, I understand.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority F012387
By CNARA Date 01-01-87

K: And I may have it straightened out by tomorrow.

D: I don't need it until the next week really.

K: The figure?

D: Right.

K: But we are firm on the October 10th date.

D: Yes, I understand. Of course he will be here today, but if I miss him today I will see him tomorrow in Washington.

K: OK, fine.

D: So I will talk to him about it.

K: Right, it's really a minor issue.
the

D: OK, I understand. What about/ratification issue?

K: I am seeing our Congressional people at 6:30. They have it screwed up in a way that is not to be believed, but I'll get it fixed by tomorrow night. By the time I see you I'll have an answer.

D: Good. So 4:30.

K: Right.

D: OK, Henry.

K: Is that convenient?

D: Certainly, very convenient.

K: OK. See you then

3

TELECON

Amb. Dobryin/Kissinger

6:04 p.m. - 9/20/72

K: Hello.

D: Hello, Henry.

K: Anatol, how are you?

D: I suppose you have a copy.

D: I know in this case . . . . Well, I wish they would publish it in the Washington Post or something else.

D: (Laught) Henry, I called about, could I drop in tomorrow for about 10 minutes?

K: Certainly.

K: 4:30.

D: 4:30.

K: Yeah, what's the problem?

D: No problem. It's just that Mr. _________ wants me to hear your preliminary observation on this subject that we discussed in a very informal way.

K: The figure?

D: Right.

K: But we are firm on the October 16th date.

K: OK, fine.

the

K: I am eating our Congressional people at 6:30. They have it screwed up in a way that is not to be believed, but I'll get it fixed by tomorrow night. By the time I see you I'll have an answer.

D: Good. So 4:30.

K: Right.

D: OK, Henry.

K: Is that convenient?

K: OK. See you then

GOLDEN GATE 1994

25B 2/10/93

BANA DUE 5/10/93

TELCORN

Cong. Maynard/Mr. Kissinger

6:22 p.m., Sept. 20, 1972

K: Hello.

M: Yessir!

K: How are you.

M: Okay

K: I'm calling you about THIS agreement with Consul Bracht. I know
that some of my colleagues from Congressional Relations have
already talked to you but I wanted to say that from a foreign policy
point of view we are reaching a point where I feel that my Further delay
is going to be awfully tough to handle and it is going to cost us
out of proportion to the issues involved. I know you are not the
obstacle, but I wanted to tell you that we are not frivolous about
this one.

M: Well, I totally agree with you, I mean, there just isn't any question

K: ---the problem is whether you see what the Senate did, it's harmless
enough, but they adopted three amendments that are to some extent
are almost contradictory and--

M: They asked for a conference.

K: Well, I told the Chairman that as far as I was concerned I did not think that we should go to conference unless we had some undertaking from Fulbright that he wasn't going to be frivolous about this and get us into conference and not let us get out. And so, the way it stands right now I left the Chairman about a half an hour ago.

M: He is sending word to Fulbright that if they don't come back with
some undertaking that we would discuss cleaning up the language
with the understanding that the conference would be only a formality.
And, that if there is no response, and so far there has been none,
that he's prepared to try later in the day tomorrow to take it up by
unanimous consent and agree to the Senate amendment even though
we don't like the language and he and I are entirely in agreement
with you. It's not substantive enough to worry about.

our concern.

K: That's really important. It is really a very important agreement.
The President has put his name to it and now it's with the Soviet
Foreign Minister over here. We are hoping that it pleases the
Soviets because they won't ratify until we ratify it, and a lot of
other things, for example, we can't agree on the word for Salt II.

TELCONE

Mr. Maynard/Mr. Kissinger

6:22 p.m., Sept. 20, 1972

M: Yeah.

K: Until we've ratified Salt I, so that's being held up even though we have agreed to it in principle.

M: Well, I appreciate that, Dr. Kissinger--

K: You are not the problem, I'm calling really to get your moral support on the --

M: I've been working all day to get the feathers smoothed out because Zablocki was fussing with the Chairman all week--it's got to go to conference, and I've got him turned around today, so he's agreed now that--if Fulbright won't agree to deal with this expeditiously then we will just go ahead and take the language and try to--

K: That's exactly what we would like and if you can keep up with whatever efforts still need to be made, we'd be very grateful, indeed.

M: I will do it.

K: Thank you, and I appreciate everything you have been doing.

M: Okay.

K: Goodbye.

M: Bye.

CLASSIFIED
E012958

Authentic
BANA DHE 6/19/72

TELCON

John Roche/Kissinger

6:50 p.m. - 9/20/72

K: Hello.

R: Hello.

K: John, how are you?

R: Fine. Your Swedish accent is extremely good.

K: (Laugs) Every lousy joke I make now gets into the news.

R: I once said that we were four months pregnant in Vietnam before we got laid off the record and it got picked up by Dave Broder so don't complain. Look, I'm coming down next week on the affairs of this commission that's trying to save Radio Free Europe, etc. from Fulbright.

K: What day?

R: I'm going to be down on Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday. It might be possible to break you loose from starlets and miscellaneous playboy little sessions and such to have a dinner.

K: I'm not going to be here Tuesday and Wednesday because I'm going to be with the President who's out of town, but Thursday I may be here. I'm not sure I'm free for dinner. But I'd like to see anyway.

R: What about sometime in the morning?

K: Certainly. Let me see whether I have any - if I haven't offered breakfast to somebody let's have breakfast.

R: Well I'm not really very good at that. I'm a late riser.

K: All right. Do you want to come in at 12?

R: On Thursday?

K: Yes.

R: Sure.

K: Good. See you at noon on Thursday.

R: All right and look if you need to get in touch with me, call that Presidential Commission on Radio or whatever it is at State Dept.

2

K: Good.

R: And they'll be in touch with me. Otherwise unless I hear from you I'll be there at noon on Thursday.

K: Terrific. Be good to see you again.

R: Keep the faith.

K: Right. Well you. . . . . . like what you've been writing. I tell you this McGovern I cannot understand him.

R: Henry, I first met George McGovern in 1956 when he became a member of the National Board of ADA and within something like 3 meetings I realized this guy if he hadn't become a navigator or whatever in the hell he was in the Air Force would have been a cook. He's a dummy. What happens is they wind him up with a key in the morning and it depends on who winds him up. Then he goes. This man is an idiot and he is surrounded by the most corrupt crew of - it takes a George Orwell to describe the environment.

K: And this Hayes who is to be a great foreign policy expert - he's really a joke.

R: Did you see the job they did on him?

K: No.

R: That's too bad. I really murdered him, but in any event what you've got is a group of imbeciles. It's ______ Wallace rejects and they've got to be beaten so badly that they won't be able to stick their heads up for 20 years.

K: I couldn't agree more.

R: This does not mean that I'm a Republican.

K: No it has nothing to do with it. I really think that McGovern is a national disaster. He's the only man that I can think of in this century whose very election would produce a foreign policy catastrophe. It doesn't make any difference whether he'd be more responsible as President, he'll never be given a chance.

TELCOM

Fred Brisson/Kissinger

7:22 p.m. - 9/29/72

K: Hello.

B: Hello, Henry.

K: Fred, how are you?

B: Fine.

K: Fred, I was wondering if you were still free for dinner on Saturday. If it would be possible I would bring along that European friend of mine. You might enjoy him anyway. He was Deputy Foreign Minister of Holland and President of KLM.

B: I'll have to check that with Rosaland because I think she may have made some plans but I'm not sure. Can I let you know tomorrow?

K: Certainly. Nothing depends on it for me.

B: Wonderful.

K: Because he just got into town today and at any rate I'd be delighted.

B: Good. So anyway we'll see each other either at dinner or lunch on Saturday.

K: Exactly.

B: And I will call you tomorrow. Rosaland's leaving tomorrow - she's on that 10 o'clock flight so I'm going to try and get her tonight but I know she's out right now and I'll call you tomorrow. Now if I don't get her I'll have to wait until I get her in Washington.

K: Well that's fine. You know nothing depends on it for me.

B: You mean it's just as easy for you one way or the other. That's great.

K: That's right. I just thought it might be a little more relaxed.

B: Listen next time you come up to New York I want to have a little cocktail do for you here at the house where I'm staying and we'll talk about it when I come down to Washington this weekend.

CLASSIFIED

8/22/72

Author: B. M. Dore

5/2/72

2

K: OK. Fine. Well, it'll be great to see you. And I am going to
that Braden dinner incidentally.

B: The one over at that boy's house.

K: Yes.

B: We turned it down because I have to be in New York very early the
next morning and Rosaland wants to go and visit her sister. So
that's why I wanted to see you before we leave on Saturday.

K: Good. Now if you're free Saturday night, great; if not, we'll meet
for lunch.

B: Wonderful.

K: Bye.