The President/Mr. Kissinger

(Brought in 8/5/71)

- 14 -

P: Yeah; I personally don't think... You know what I think we ought to say. I don't agree with this tactic that, while the way to handle NEWSWEEK is to get a good piece on our side. I think the thing to do is to kick them and make them apologize for the article they wrote.

K: And then say...

P: Just say that I don't want to dignify them with an article.

K: Then Scali claims it's helpful to us to have Agnew supporting your China policy. Well, he can do that in news conferences. The Chinese will read it -- when he slobbers over it -- as if our right is impotent, and as far as the Chinese are concerned, we'd rather have a frightful right.

P: You might even tell Agnew that -- that it's just as well to let them think that there are some people that don't like the policy and for him to be a little silent there.

K: That's right. him

P: And also tell that we do not want him to lose his influence with the right, and this would hurt him. Why don't you tell him a little of that.

K: I'd be strongly in favor of any other article.

P: I don't know that I want to dignify the God-damn magazine. Tell him that I think that such a filthy sheet -- and you just say, my view is that such a filthy sheet I don't think he ought to be in it. Tell him, for example, that I would never give them an article. They've asked me for one, and I've refused. And I've refused the NEW YORK TIMES; I refused THE WASHINGTON POST; and I've refused TIME magazine. And I never will! I prefer the freeze-- just say it that way. I think we ought to freeze them.

K: You had promised Chalmers Roberts an interview in May, and I've been knocking it off. I don't know whether you want to go through with it.

P: Well, I tell you, we've got lots of time on that. Just say I have it in my mind. He's still a young fellow -- I mean he's still got lots of time. There'll be a good time when there's a more newsworthy thing. All he'll be interested in is China, and I don't want to talk about that

DECLASSIFIED

MJE FO 2958
Authentic

By NARA Date 6/4/64

The President/Mr. Kissinger

(Brought in 8/5/71)

- 15 -

K: That's right. I think we ought to wait.

P: Tell him that there'll be another time; there'll be a time when I think there's a good news period -- that I'll be glad to see him then.

K: I think that's right.

P: Tell him I definitely have it in mind. It's a promise and I'll do it like I did with that fellow, Cy Sulzburger.

K: Right. Okay, that will hold him.

P: You promise him -- say that the commitment is made and that right now, for reasons he may understand, we don't want to say too much.

K: Right. I think that will hold him. In fact, that goes further that he think's you'd go. It's really fantastic -- for example, from the LOS ANGELES TIMES, Bob Donovan and Kraslow want to write about your secret search for peace in Vietnam. Now it's too early for that, too.

P: Yeah, yeah. What are they basing that on?

K: Well, they are just assuming there's a hell of a lot going on and they said, if you gave them access, they'd write a really, good, thoughtful piece.

P: Yeah, of course, they would.

K: Which I think they would do.

P: But the point is that when that comes out, that's for everybody.

K: Exactly. I don't see why we should shoot it.

P: Why give it to them -- the secret search for peace in Vietnam. Boy, we've got a helluva record, and I'll tell you, it's just as well to keep everybody loose on that. We've got Mansfield damn loose on Vietnam now. He is damn loose.

K: Right. But now we should claim down and not say any more...

DECLASSIFIED

MAY 29 84

By NARA Date 6/2/84

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By CCO

NARA, Date 5/27

TELCON
Rogers/Kissinger
10:22 a.m. 8/6/71

R: I hope the President doesn't make any decisions on Malta before he leaves because I got a letter from Alex Home opposing a ____.

K: I told Alex no deal before Monday and in any event I would get in touch with him or you.

R: I have a lot more confidence on Carrington's judgment then Pritzlaff's.

K: That's saying nothing.

R: They are saying he has banks in Britain and not busted at all.

K: I was impressed on that discussion. No decision before Monday or if so, I will get in touch with you.

R: It will cause a major row with the English.

K: Send a copy over here.

R: I will. Just get it. The NYTimes sent a man to Canada and he interviewed Huang Hua. He was fairly forthcoming and it will be used tomorrow or the next day. They reported to Green. Huang Hua said that same thing that Reston reported that it didn't jeopardize President's trip and we might succeed in saving membership for Taiwan and under those circumstances they will not take their seat.

K: That won't hurt us. Reston interview made that clear -- trying temporarily to reassure allies in NVN. Not very strong.

R: Huang Hua must have gotten instructions. They are sending out further to calm our fears that trip might be jeoparadized.

K: I think we should make a major effort but not on TV. In corridors and backgrounding.

R: Say we are doing what we said we would do. Support representative of Chinese membership.

K: I have been talking to the President about going too far on his press conferences. I wonder what the Russians are thinking about the Middle East.

R: I suppose my conversation with Dobrynin yesterday --

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By. NARA, Date

5/27

Rogers/Kissinger

10:22 a.m. 8/6/71

-2-

K: I suppose. We are not talking with them that I know of.

R: Why did he say it?

K: Don't have any idea. We should damp down speculation.

R: Only trouble is our leader.

K: He is greatest security risk.

R: Play back some of his speeches to him.

K: Similarly, that Thieu thing is not on any record that anyone knows.

R: POW thing is cruelly hard. Unbelievable. I don't see how SAS can't disclose who did it.

K: If they can leak the story, they could leak the person.

R: Particularly in view of your trip to China a lot of k wives and families think something is going on.

K: For 3-4 weeks the Chinese reassured their allies and now playing toward us.

R: It's going well.

K: I don't think foreign policy will be a problem next year.

R: I will spend a lot of time this weekend on India and Pakistan. It's insoluable.

K: Make sure India doesn't attack.

R: Gromyko is visiting Delhi now. We should think about continuing arms shipments to Pakistan. And they might understand it.

K: There's only $4 million left. Maybe something besides arms.

R: I think they would understand. I am going to talk with the Ambassador before going to NY particularly after Irwin's conversation with Jha yesterday. It would be fine to help some other way but if we could say no longer supplying military equipment because we will be getting clobbered.

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By

NARA, Date 5/27

Rogers/Kissinger

10:22 a.m. 8/6/71

-3-

K: It's India.

R: But they are using it to justify what they are doing and it's heading to war.

K: ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

R: Did you approve the message to Keating?

K: I think so.

R: We will try to ____ as much as we can.

K: I talked with McNamara yesterday and he said situation in East Pakistan will be desparate in the next couple of months. Want to be sure that doesn't hit us unprepared.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By NARA, Date 5/5

TELCOM
Peterson/Kissinger

11:05 a.m. 8/6/71

K: I wanted to tell you the position at the SRG meeting. I cannot handle all the economic agencies. They leak and their concerns are not suitable for SRG. I will not have Commerce there. Why don't you come for the economic agencies. I will shift 90% of the economic part to your meetings and you can come back.

P: Which agencies?

K: Agriculture, Commerce. I don't give a damn if they re-value the yen -- well, I give a damn but it doesn't (come under the SRG). After it comes from you committee then it can come to the SRG.

P: So long as x our committee has a negotiating plan.

K: And you are agreeable to putting it back into SRG. I will take the position this afternoon that we will have a broad brush of economic attitudes so we will hear them. Will you represent the economic community?

P: You have to have Treasury there.

K: They will be there.

P: OK.

UNCLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By CCO NARA, Dale 5/27

TELECON
Secretary Rogers
8/6/71 1:30 p.m.

R: I gather the Pakistani Ambassador talked to you about the security council matter?

K: He called in. I didn't talk to him; he talked to Haig.

R: And the President think's it's a good idea?

K: Yes.

R: I think it's a good idea, but I don't think we should be out in front on it.

K: No, we shouldn't introduce it. The President things we should vote for it, but not introduce it.

R: I have just gone over this pipeline thing. I gather by August 13 it will be finished except $4 million worth, of which probably only half has been ordered. So we're talking about $2 million, mostly spare parts available in other countries.

K: I talked to the President briefly about our conversation. He is very reluctant.

R: Would he be if the Paks were willing to do it?

K: That's a different thing.

R: Let me finish my analysis. If it's only $2 million left in the pipeline which could be shipped out... You and I know $2 million in parts for airplane doesn't amount to a god-damn. And if we could finish it and then just say that there will be no more shipments, it would be a good thing. It would help us in getting economic assistance for them. And it would take ammunition away from the Indians and the Kennedys and people like that for the next year. We can't just keep saying it doesn't amount to anything, even thought it doesn't.

K: If he goes along with it it's a different thing. I don't think he would want pressure put on it though.

R: Oh no.

K: Just say it makes it easier to do the economid thing.

R: Of course, and with the Gallagher thing, it would help in the Senate.

K: All right.

By NARA, Date 5/27

TELCOM

Dr. Cohen/Kissinger

4:05 p.m. 8/6/71

C: Now you are the great China expert.

K: Did I or did I not listen to you?

C: When I think back to the meeting before Christmas and I was saying
China was important and all my colleagues were backing me down now
I think ? ? ? ? Can you follow through? Despite Buckley?

K: ? ? ?

C: Where public opinion will stand on this. Playing it cautiously. Before
Huang Hua I had 4 hours with --

K: You told me.

C: That was in May. Now in June I had ____ hours. I am leaving in
two weeks to go to Japan for a year.

K: Come in first.

C: I have to be in on a hearing with Proximire on Wed. Would you be in
town and free? Wed. matrix morning before the hearing or afternoon
or Tues. night.

K: I can't do it at night.

C: I am in Vermont now so it can't be too late.

K: Let's do it Wed. for breakfast. In my office Wed. at 8:00.

C: They will let me in?

K: That's right. They don't let conservatives in now.

C: I was in a TV show with Buckley in June on China policy and he comes
across loud and clear.

K: And Goldwater was in yeaterday and is also not in accord.

C: I have a variety of things to ask about. Perhaps I can hold hands with
the Japanese.

K: If there's one area where our professors influence, it's China. I'm
serious.

By [signature] NARA, Date 5/27

Dr. Cohen/Kissinger

4:05 p.m. 8/6/71

-2-

C: When I called in May and said that they invited President you said untrue. But said it was important that they wanted high level reps. Now I hear it was in April.

K: Box Process began but not to the President.

C: I think I will be in Canada a week after Wed. PerHPAS going to China in fall.

K: I think they are serious.

C: But about what. I have just done a whole piece. Your trip cause me to revise the whole thing. On the 15th I was sure I had it and that this was going to be the UN announcement. Then I had to tear out the first page and re-write it.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12950, Sect. 3.6

TELECON
Ken Clawson

8/6/71 5:55 p.m.

By NARA, Date 5/27

C: I just concluded a two-hour interview with Senator Buckley on his fears about the conservative wing of the party. For your information, he says the President must quickly give some reassurances to keep them from gelling an opposition. I guess that's nothing new.

K: Well, you can't win them all. This is off the record.

C: Yes. The reason I am calling you is that he said that shortly after the issuing of his brother's statement he issued a statement of quasi-support for his brother and you called him up.

K: Nonsense.

C: Not so at all?

K: Well, after I had briefed a group of Senators, about 10 days before his brother's statement, at the end of that briefing he said he wanted to see me. I didn't even know he had made a statement supporting his brother, I just called pursuing his request to see me.

C: Is there anything you can tell me about your meeting with him?

K: No. . . . I explained our position and he explained his.

C: Were you at that meeting yesterday between the President and the four [inaugural] Congressmen/Senators (?) ?

K: No.

C: How was your meeting with Fulbright the other night?

K: I won't comment on that. . . . . I was treated very courteously and thought it was useful.

C: And, do you think the publication of the Pentagon papers hurt your trip to China?

K: I was worried about it, but do you mean _did_ it affect it?

C: Yes.

K: After I got there?

C: Either way.

K: I was concerned before, but after it didn't make any difference.