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throwing papers around. It's not like this at all. Power is 95% routine and meticulous attention to detail. There's nothing erotic about that. Quite to the contrary, when a crisis breaks out, it gets very quiet around you as if you're in the eye of a hurricane.

**QUESTION** *you LEARN ABOUT MAN over the years?*
What did these situations tell you about men?

**ANSWER**

Nothing much from the daily routine except maybe that they are self-fish. But at times of crisis, they reveal themselves: many are eager for power but few are ready to take responsibility for it. For they only strive for one thing: survival. So if you are willing to act - as often as I was - you're really quite alone. It is very intense and almost every second leaves a mark in your memory for ever.

It's all over in a minute and you have a sort of let down as I'm told women have after giving birth because for a man exercising power the end of a crisis is not the end of history. He knows that this is the admission to another crisis down the road. Crises roll on you like the waves of the sea.

**QUESTION**

Having enjoyed supreme power, do you feel any frustration to be deprived of it now?

**ANSWER**

They are two separate things.

When you are in high office, you are in a curious position because every day more problems are in your basket that you can possibly handle and you have to pick out matters that are really important. When you are out of office, you have to generate your own problems; that was a big transition. It took me six months to change over but I was quite a young man when I left office and I decided I was not going to spend the rest of my life looking back to what I had already done.

**QUESTION**

Have you maintained friendly relationships with certain leaders?

**ANSWER**

Definitely. When I travel I almost automatically am received by the head of government of the country I am visiting.

I have never been totally out of touch.

I have been personal friend of Helmut Schmidt, Giscard and Callahan in Great Britain and many other places.

**QUESTION**

You have been intimate with the greatest people in the world, who impressed you most?

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Impressed without necessarily liking them ?

### QUESTION

Yes.

### ANSWER

De Gaulle, Mao, Chu En Lai, Adenauer, Sadat, Goldareich, King Faisal.

### QUESTION

Do you remember the first time you met De Gaulle ?

### ANSWER

Very well so. I didn't have such glorious experiences with him. I met him at the end of his career in 1969 when I was there with Nixon and I was assistant to Nixon which to De Gaulle meant I was just sort of a functionary. But he treated me very politely but also great condescension. But what was impressive about De Gaulle when he acted alone was like a great star. You knew he was the center of the room. When he came to the funeral of Eisenhower, he came in the uniform of General. There was a reception that President Nixon gave afterwards and the Shah of Iran was there and also 80 heads of state. When De Gaulle entered the room, he became the center of attention, he did nothing, he just stood there and all the senators, including the liberal senators who said they hated generals kept flocking around him. And I said to somebody as a joke, I hope he doesn't step near the window because if he does, the whole room will tilt and we'll all fall out.

So my personal encounters were during these conferences. He sometimes took me aside and asked me a question but I never gave him an answer to which he didn't reply with a somewhat sarcastic comment. Still, he is a very great man.

### QUESTION

Who was the most difficult person to deal with ?

### ANSWER

Without any question Le Duc Tho; a heroic person, very simple-minded, dedicated to something that was a disaster for America and without any moral scruples in dealing with us.

### QUESTION

Any regrets about decisions you have made in the past ?

### ANSWER

That would get into a very complicated explanation. You have to remember this: when you are in high office, contrary to what the so-called experts say, you really try to do the best and the thing that keeps you going is that you think what you do makes a difference. So if you're a serious person you probably believe what you did then was right and if you don't follow every fashionable trend, you have to think that still today that what you did then was right.

Vietnam in 1969 what we did in 1972. But that wasn't so self evident to me at the time and I wasn't all that influential in 1969.

### QUESTION

Because you were not born in the United States, the Constitution prevents you from being a presidential candidate, is it a serious problem for you? Do you feel so? Anyhow, it isn't a serious problem for me.

### ANSWER

I think that probably if I had been born in the America, I would have tried to run for President. It would have been a very noisy campaign ... on the other hand you can't regret something that you can do absolutely nothing about. So I don't think about it.

### QUESTION

It would be difficult to meet with you without touching upon political subjects, even briefly. One question is on everybody's mind today: do you believe there can be a third world war ?

### ANSWER

I think a third world war can happen only if Europe together with the United States, the free countries, are weak and irresolute and therefore tempt the Soviets to do things which rational calculation would not produce. Otherwise, I think there's next to no danger of a third world war.

In World War I, no leader would have gone to war had he known the casualties of World War I. I doubt that even Hitler, who was a maniac, would have gone into World War II if he had known that it would lead to the total destruction of Germany and certainly his generals would not have followed him. So I think a deliberate decision to have a third World War is extremely improbable.

There are only two dangers:

One is Soviet miscalculation. The other is that there occurred some crisis somewhere that neither parts of the big powers has foreseen and that gets slowly out of control. But I think that is not very probable.

### QUESTION

A large part of the European population believes that the United States is ready to "sell out" Europe in order to preserve peace. What is your opinion ?

### ANSWER

I have heard it. I think it's ridiculous because if we do that, we sell ourselves out. If Europe becomes part of the Soviet sphere, sooner or later the United States will become totally isolated and will be living in a regimented world that would be absolutely unacceptable.

Twice in 30 years, we didn't understand that foreign policy could prevent one country from dominating the others. It

European countries left vis a vis Russia for us to sell out Europe to the Soviets. That is absolutely out of the question. We may do it by mistake but we will not do it as an act of policy. We can be stupid but we cannot be wicked like this.

### QUESTION

Do you think that Gorbachev can be a more liberal Soviet leader because he is much younger and dynamic than his predecessors ? Will he make a change ?

### ANSWER

not on his age but
It depends on his policy. I think Michaelov Gorbachev pursuing the wrong policies is more dangerous for us than a dying invalid. The fact that he's young does not guarantee anything. I think it's too early to tell but I am not as optimistic as I read in so many newspapers.

### QUESTION

How do you explain that in spite of Watergate the French still consider Nixon as a great statesman and politician, an opinion not always shared by Americans ?

### ANSWER

The French judgement is correct. French foreign policy has been always conducted since Richelieu on the grounds of raison d'etat. That was exactly what Nixon tried to do for America. Americans don't understand that sort of thing.
Americans like to think that we are morally superior to the rest of the world and that we act therefore out of principles that are unique and that can persuade people of their intellectual force. No Frenchman ever has such a naive idea.
So I think Nixon is on the great tradition of European and particularly French statesmen. I think the French are a rather skeptical people whom I admire enormously.

### QUESTION

What is your opinion of today's French politicians ?

### ANSWER

I was very much opposed to Mitterand before he became President but I have learned to respect him very much. His foreign policy is very statesmanlike and very farsighted. President Mitterand has been kind enough to receive me almost every time I come to Paris.
I am also of course, as I have said before, a friend of Giscard. I have great respect for Barre and Chirac. Lack of intelligence is not a French problem.

### QUESTION

Politicians come and go. Sometimes they are easily forgotten.
You are still in the forefront. You are a star in your own way. Do you like fame ?

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ANSWER

Probably. Quite certainly. It has its drawbacks but I like it. ⌨️ is vanity.

QUESTION

You have made a cameo appearance in Dynasty ? Are you becoming an actor ?

ANSWER

(Smile)

I accepted to do it because I was told that the producers would make a contribution to the charity for children's diabetes that Mrs. Marvin Davis is in charge of.

I have no talent to become an actor. I can only play one part: mine.

QUESTION

You have been seen with many beautiful women. You seem to be as successful with diplomats as you are with women.

ANSWER

I don't know how successful. I like beautiful women but you know that I've been married most of my life and I'm very close to my wife.

QUESTION

You have said a few years ago that women were only a hobby to you and one cannot spend a great deal of time on hobbies. Do you maintain this ?

ANSWER

(Smile)

I have been know to say immature things.

QUESTION

Maybe but you've said it.

ANSWER

Certainly. 90% of my life has been devoted to projects I considered important. So any woman that wanted 100% of my attention has had a difficult time. But women as a hobby, that's an immature thing to say.

QUESTION

You have been married to Nancy for 11 years. What are her most striking qualities ?

ANSWER

She is a woman of unusual intelligence. She is very strong and independent, therefore whatever she gives she gives voluntarily not as means of living and she does not act through another person.

QUESTION

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**ANSWER**

I do. I also attach importance to my private life but I try to keep it very private.

**QUESTION**

Do you think of coming back to high office within the government ?

**ANSWER**

I have already given up any plans to go back to high office. If it happens, it will be as a combination of circumstances that I are totally unpredictable and absolutely out of my control.

**QUESTION**

Isn't it even a secret thought ?

**ANSWER**

No. In this country, it almost never happens, almost never does anyone return to high office. And I have seen too many people who have orientated their lives to it and have been very disappointed. I lead a life that I find very satisfying right now and I would be very reluctant to change it.

**QUESTION**

Did any of your acts change the course of history ?

**ANSWER**

That's not for me to judge. That may sound corny to you but when you have lived your life you would like to think that you did make a little difference and was not entirely out of gratification of yourself.

**QUESTION**

Do you feel that you have been misunderstood sometimes ?

**ANSWER**

If you are in public life, you have to be willing to take the heat and you musn't then complain that people misunderstood you. I also said that I like fame, then you put yourself into a position where people almost feel the necessity to attack you and then you shouldn't say it's unfair.

**QUESTION**

A former Secretary of the UN once said: A good diplomat can checkmate his neighbour without being noticed. Do you agree ?

**ANSWER**

No, because you can't cut somebody's throat without them noticing it. You always read about very clever diplomats - and it's been said about me - that you tell a different story

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an effective diplomat because you meet the same people over
and over again and the only way to be effective is if you
gain the reputation that your word counts and that you don't
take advantage of people.

Because if you take advantage of anybody and you succeed,
then you have made a mortal enemy and you will never be able
to deal with that person again.

QUESTION

Do you have many enemies ?

ANSWERS

Yes I do, for different reasons though...

Somebody told me the other day that making enemies is easy,
keeping them is difficult. I have succeeded in that. I have
kept quite a few .... (Smile).

Exclusive interview by Dany Jucaud, in New York, March 19,
1985.

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MAR 26 1985

MARCH 19, 1985 - WESSINGER - NEW YORK

QUESTION

You set foot on American soil for the first time at the age
of 15, fleeing from Nazi Germany.

Born in a modest family and a German citizen, your life could
have taken a totally different course. How do you explain
your extraordinary destiny ?

ANSWER

Having lived as a young boy under a dictatorship, I became
very dedicated to doing something for democracy in this
country that welcomed me. I am very single-minded and pursue
my objectives with some determination. Having seen so many
changes, I have acquired a certain detachment and a better
perspective than many of my American contemporaries who have
not lived the same tragedies as the Europeans.

QUESTION

Did you ever imagine holding such high-level responsabilities
within the government of the United States ?

ANSWER

No. When I came to Washington, I had no idea what would
happen. I was a perfect innocent. This might sound
unbelievable today.

QUESTION

Innocent ?

ANSWER

I got the reputation for having handled the Washington
bureaucracy and press with a certain amount of skill. I
don't know about that. The fact is that then I had no fixed
plan. I expected to be a sort of anonymous member of the
Nixon entourage. Life turned out differently.

QUESTION

What would you have done if you had not gone into politics ?

ANSWER

I studied accounting before the war and it had been a
disaster. I do not see myself into anything else: politics
is really my profession but also my hobby.

QUESTION

You said power was the ultimate aphrodisiac.

Is power erotic ?

ANSWER

I don't know whether it is erotic for the person exercising
it but it has a certain attraction for people who are
watching it. Writers and film makers dealing with political
moments of crisis always amuse me: they show you people
frantically running around, shouting instructions and

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**QUESTION** *you LEARN ABOUT MEN over the years?*
What did these situations tell you about men?

**ANSWER**

Nothing much from the daily routine except maybe that they are self-fish. But at times of crisis, they reveal themselves: many are eager for power but few are ready to take responsibility for it for they only strive for one thing survival. So if you are willing to act - as often as I was - you're really quite alone. It is very intense and almost every second leaves a mark in your memory for ever.

**QUESTION**

Having enjoyed supreme power, do you feel any frustration to be deprived of it now ?

**ANSWER**

They are two separate things.

When you are in high office, you are in a curious position because every day more problems are in you basket that you can possibly handle and you have to pick out matters that are really important. When you are out of office, you have to generate your own problems; that was a big transition. It took me six months to change over but I was quite a young man when I left office and I decided I was not going to spend the rest of my life looking back to what I had already done.

**QUESTION**

Have you maintained friendly relationships with certain leaders ?

**ANSWER**

I have been personal friend of Helmut Schmidt, Giscard and Callahan in Great Britain.

**QUESTION**

You have been intimate with the greatest people in the world, who impressed you most ?

**ANSWER**

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C.Y.J.

### QUESTION

Yes.

### ANSWER

De Gaulle, Mao, Chu En Lai, Adenauer, Sadat.

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

Very well so. I didn't have such glorious experiences with him. I met him at the end of his career in 1969 when I was there with Nixon and I was assistant to Nixon which to De Gaulle meant I was just sort of a functionary. But he treated me very politely but also great condescendence. But what was impressive about De Gaulle when he acted aloof was like a great star. You knew he was the center of the room. When he came to the funeral of Eisenhower, he came in the uniform of General. There was a reception that President Nixon gave afterwards and the Shah of Iran was there and also 80 heads of state. When De Gaulle entered the room, he became the center of attention, he did nothing, he just stood there and all the senators, including the liberal senators who said they hated generals kept flocking around him. And I said to somebody as a joke, I hope he doesn't step near the window because if he does, the whole room will tilt and we'll all fall out.

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

Without any question Le Duc Tho; heroic person, very simple-minded, dedicated to something that was a disaster for America and without any moral scruples in dealing with us.

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

In retrospect, I probably regret that we did not do in

### QUESTION

Because you were not born in the United States, the Constitution prevents you from being a presidential candidate, is it a serious problem for you? Do you feel so? any about it?

### ANSWER

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

There are only two dangers:

### QUESTION

A large part of the European population believes that the United States is ready to "sell out" Europe in order to preserve peace. What is your opinion ? A to the Soviets.

### ANSWER

Twice in 30 years, we didn't understand that foreign policy could prevent one country from dominating the other. It would be absolutely absurd now that there are no strong

EYJ

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

It depends on his policy. I think Michael Gorbachev pursuing the wrong policies is more dangerous for us than a dying invalid. The fact that he's young does not guarantee anything. I think it's too early to tell but I am not as optimistic as I read in so many newspapers.

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

The French judgement is correct. French foreign policy has been always conducted since Richelieu on the grounds of raison d'état. That was exactly what Nixon tried to do for America. Americans don't understand that sort of things. Americans like to think that we are morally superior to the rest of the world and that we act therefore out of principles that are unique and that can persuade people of their intellectual force. No Frenchman ever has such a naive idea. So I think Nixon is one of the great traditions of European and particularly French statesmen. I think the French are a rather skeptical people whom I admire enormously.

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

### QUESTION

5

### ANSWER

Probably. Quite certainly. It has its drawbacks but I like it. 80% is vanity.

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

(Smile)

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

(Smile)

I have been known to say immature things.

### QUESTION

Maybe but you've said it.

### ANSWER

### QUESTION

### ANSWER

### QUESTION

Is this what you prefer in woman ?

ANSWER

Yes, I like strong women. I find it very debilitating if a person tries to find himself or herself through the attention of somebody else.

QUESTION

You have just told me that you have spent 90% of your time for work. It leaves 10% for your family, is it enough ?

ANSWER

Well, you have to ask them. They would be better judges of that than I am. (WE ARE ALONE AND NOBODY IS THERE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION FOR ME)

I'm very close to my children and I see them often. Wherever I am in any house, they have a room whether they come or not but they know they can always come there and their rooms will never be given away to anybody.

QUESTION

What do they do ?

ANSWER

Elisabeth is 25, she is now at Yale and will go to medical school in the fall.

My son David is 22 and is at law school.

QUESTION

Does he want to get into politics ?

ANSWER

I suspect so.

QUESTION

Surprised ?

ANSWER

I am not urging him.

QUESTION

Why not ?

ANSWER

He should become independent in a profession first and enter politics only when he knows his quality because if you become dependent on politics, it can destroy you.

QUESTION

What are your priorities today ?

ANSWER

More or less what they have always been. I am a workaholic.

QUESTION

Is it true that you work 18 hours a day ?

ANSWER

QUESTION

ANSWER

I have already given up any plans to go back to high office, if it happens, it will be as a combination of circumstances that I are totally unpredictable and absolutely out of my control.

QUESTION

ANSWER

QUESTION

ANSWER

QUESTION

ANSWER

QUESTION

Do you agree ?

Who can cut his neighbour's throat without making him notice? Do you buy that?

ANSWER

No, because you can't cut somebody's throat without them noticing it. You always read about very clever diplomats - and it's been said about me - that you tell a different story to everybody. If you do this, you will be very soon stop beingCYJ

QUESTION

Do you have many enemies ?

ANSWERS

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