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# NOTES ON EVENING PANEL MEETING - November 20, 1956

## Present:

Mr. Nelson Rockefeller opened the meeting with a brief discussion of the origin and purpose of the Special Studies Project.

He then introduced various members of the Staff, before asking Dr. Kissinger to outline the organization and the proposed procedure of the Project.

Dr. Kissinger reviewed the structural organization of the various panels and described the procedure followed in commissioning, co-ordinating and considering papers and in preparing reports. He illustrated the scope of various subpanels and mentioned some of the individuals writing papers, in order to show how the Project drew upon studies under way elsewhere. Dr. Kissinger concluded by showing a

studies under way elsewhere. Dr. Klaasinger concluded by showing a
individual writing paper, in order to show how the Project draws upon
illustrated the scope of various subjects and mentioned some of the
co-ordinating and considering papers and in preparing reports. He
various papers and described the procedure followed in commissioning,
Dr. Klaasinger reviewed the structural organization of the
of the Project.

Dr. Klaasinger to outline the organization and the proposed procedure
He then introduced various members of the Staff, before asking
discussion of the origin and purpose of the Special Studies Project.

Present:

NOTES ON EVENING DINNER MEETING - November 30, 1956

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tentative schedule for the deliberations of the various panels and
for the ultimate publication of the reports and papers.

The panel then engaged in a discussion concerning the
ultimate use of the various studies.

Following Mr. Rockefeller's opening remarks, the panel
engaged in a general discussion.

Mr. Percy asked what the plans were for using the product
of the proposed study.

Mr. Rusk suggested that one volume of about 300 pages
might be produced and published. Alternately, several volumes
containing much more detailed reports might be produced. He
suggested that decision on this could be worked out as the study
progresses.

Mr. Killian asked whether any thought had been given to the
possibilities of public presentation such as was done in the case of

possibilities of public presentation such as was done in the case of Mr. Kilian asked whether any thought had been given to the progress of

assumed that decision on this could be worked out as the study
consisting much more detailed reports might be produced. He
might be produced and published. Alternatively, several volumes
Mr. Kilian suggested that one volume of about 300 pages
of the proposed study.

Mr. Kilian asked what the plans were for making the product
engaged in a general discussion.

Following Mr. Rockefeller's opening remarks, the panel
ultimate use of the various studies.

The panel then engaged in a discussion concerning the
for the ultimate publication of the reports and papers.

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the President's Committee on Education. He suggested that this is
often a much more effective way of gaining widespread distribution.

Mrs. Hobby suggested that the objective should be to have the
wides possible forum. She hoped that the group could sponsor a
series of public discussions.

Mr. Dickey thought that a written report alone was not likely
to be adequate. He suggested that the material developed by the panel
might be used as the subject matter for a convocation on great issues
to be held at Dartmouth in September.

Mrs. Rosenberg believed that some papers might be published
but that others might be more valuable and more effective, if they were
not published, but instead put directly in the hands of substantial
policy officials.

Mr. Cowles suggested that the report might be brought out in
various forms to reach the different intellectual levels in the country.

Mr. Cowles suggested that the report might be brought out in
policy officials.

not published, but instead but directly in the hands of substantial
but that others might be more valuable and more effective, if they were
Mrs. Rosenberg believed that some papers might be published
to be held at Dartmouth in September.

might be used as the subject matter for a convocation on great issues
to be adequate. He suggested that the material developed by the panel
Mr. Dickey thought that a written report alone was not likely
series of public discussions.

Mrs. Hopy suggested that the objective should be to have the
often a much more effective way of defining widespread distribution.
the President's Committee on Education. He suggested that this is

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Mr. Sarnoff suggested that decisions of this sort might be
put off until the work is further along.

General Clay asked whether or not the objective of the panel
is to try to look and plan ahead. If so, it will not be possible to
consider contemporary events.

Mr. Rusk commented that, although this is desirable, it
may not always be possible to get away entirely from current events.
For example, if the threat of Soviet volunteers to the Middle East
materializes, this will fundamentally alter further Middle East
developments for many years.

Mr. Percy said he was most interested in studying the long
range aspects of the problems. He was also hopeful that the study might
produce material which could be used by the Fund for Adult Education.

Mr. Sarnoff also commented that there are now too many forces
acting concurrently in the world for the minds of men to encompass

Mr. Sarnoff also commented that there are now too many forces
produce material which could be used by the Fund for Adult Education.

range affects of the problems. He was also hopeful that the study might
Mr. Pery said he was most interested in studying the long

developments for many years.

materialises, this will fundamentally alter further Middle East

consider contemporary events.

but off until the work is further along.

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and to develop appropriate courses of action. He said that there
is no long range U. S. foreign policy. "We are living day by day".
Perhaps a major job can be done by the panel in developing such a
coherent long range policy.

Mr. Dart suggested the material to be studied might be broken
into various classifications and segmented as we go along.

Mrs. Rosenberg believed that it may be too difficult to find
fundamental answers; perhaps the best that can be done is to identify
and clarify problems.

After-Dinner Session

Mr. Rockefeller asked each of the panel chairmen to report
on discussions held at dinner with members of the different subpanels.

Subpanel I

Mr. Rusk suggested that a major problem to be studied is that
of the conflict of general principles when they are applied to practical
problems.

problems.

Mr. Rusk suggested that a major problem to be studied is that
<u>**Substance I**</u>

on discussions held at dinner with members of the different subgroups.

Mr. Rockefeller asked each of the panel chairman to report

After-Dinner Session

and clarity problems.

fundamental answers: perhaps the best that can be done is to identify

Mrs. Rosemary believed that it may be too difficult to find

coherent long range policy.

Perhaps a major topic can be done by the panel in developing such a

is no long range U. S. foreign policy. "We are living day by day."

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The problems of Subpanel I further will tend to merge into
the problems being considered by the other subpanels, and thus
the problems tend to become so complex that they are essentially
beyond the ability of any group to handle them.

A major question is: how can we develop a fresh and vital
attitude about our most deeply held beliefs? For example, how can
the fundamental belief that the governments derive their just powers
from the governed be restated and revitalized? He recalled that
Senator Vandenberg's advice on how to present the European Aid
Program to Congress was to come in "roaring", but a program of
annual "roaring" for four separate Congressional committees is both
difficult to sustain and misses the emphasis on basic problems.

One possible function of the panel is to support the people
inside a government who have difficulty doing long range planning.

Inside a government who have difficulty doing long range planning.

One possible function of the panel is to support the people
difficult to sustain and raise the emphasis on past problems.

annual "roaring", for four separate Congressional committees is both
program to Congress was to come in "roaring", but a program of
Senator Vandenberg's advice on how to present the European War
from the governed be restated and revitalized? He recalled that
the fundamental belief that the governments derive their just powers
attitude about our most deeply held beliefs? For example, how can

A major question is: how can we develop a free and vital
beyond the ability of any group to handle them.

the problems tend to become so complex that they are essentially
the problems being considered by the other subpanels, and thus

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Mr. Rusk suggested that there might be an interchange of
views among the panels during their deliberations.

Mr. Bowles stated that our foreign policy is still essentially
isolationist. We have pushed back our frontiers from our shores to
the Rhine, in order that we can be left alone to pursue our own
national ends. The basic problem of foreign policy is to relate our
own national purposes to the national purposes of others, for it is
obvious that other nations will not make the necessary sacrifices
simply to further the national objectives of a foreign power.

Subpanel II

General McCormack said that we have a major problem of
building moral support for use of military force for limited objectives.
We also face a major problem in developing and maintaining the will to
use force where necessary. Without such determination the forces we
need will, in large part, not even be created, for there will be inad-

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equate incentive to make the necessary expenditures of money and manpower.

Mr. Dean commented that we must have both the willingness and capability to fight local wars if needed.

Mr. Anderson brought up the implication of the "new look" developed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the present administration.

Does the nation really mean to carry out the new look and to be prepared to use every weapon in our arsenal? Is the free world willing to accept a single free-world strategy, or does every country have to have balanced forces? If so, we must face up to the very large cost of supporting balanced forces of each of our allies over the next ten years. Alternately, every country might be fitted into the overall defense plan in the way in which it can best serve.

Mrs. Rosenberg asked whether or not we can continue to base our security on overseas bases which are subject to loss resulting

Mrs. Rosenberg asked whether or not we can continue to pass
defense plan in the way in which it can best serve.

Years. Alternately, every country might be fitted into the overall
of supporting balanced forces of each of our allies over the next ten
have balanced forces? If so, we must face up to the very large cost
to accept a single free-world arrangement, or does every country have to
beared to use every weapon in our armament? Is the free world willing
to make the nation really mean to carry out the new look and to be pre-
developed by the joint Clusters of Staff during the present administration.

Mr. Anderson brought up the implication of the "new look."

Mr. Dean commented that we must have both the willingness
manpower.

adequate incentive to make the necessary expenditures of money and

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from local political instability.

Mr. Rusk asked Mr. Anderson whether or not the new look meant that all weapons will necessarily be used. Mr. Anderson's reply was that the new look meant that any given weapon will be available for use by any of the services and not reserved for the exclusive use of a single service.

General Clay suggested that the group concentrate on the large problems, such as the value of foreign alliances and so forth, rather than to get into detailed questions such as the appropriate force levels.

## Subpanel III

Mr. Katz pointed out that foreign economic policy is a part both of foreign policy and of U.S. domestic economic policy.

U.S. economic growth at home is a basic interest of the American citizens, while at the same time growth is essential to meet the

citizens, while at the same time growth is essential to meet the
U. S. economic growth at home is a basic interest of the American
both of foreign policy and of U.S. domestic economic policy.

## Subsection III

force levels.

rather than to get into detailed questions such as the appropriate
large problems, such as the value of foreign alliances and so forth.
General Clay argued that the group concentrate on the
exclusive use of a single service.

available for use by any of the services and not reserved for the
reply was that the new look meant that any given weapon will be
meant that all weapons will necessarily be used. Mr. Anderson's
Mr. Rusk asked Mr. Anderson whether or not the new look
from local political inaptitude.

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competition of the growing Soviet economy and to provide for our

own defense. Further, the rate of growth of our own economy becomes

a basic factor in the health of the economies of foreign nations.

It is important, in Mr. Katz's opinion, to maintain a qualitative
as well as a quantitative edge over the Soviets. The most critical
factor in this connection is our present educational crisis.

A further objective is to maintain the cohesion of the free and
uncommitted world, and in order to do this, it is necessary to find
ways to foster common economic interests. A related problem is that
of our capacity to export capital, including skilled manpower.

Mr. Katz suggested that a real limiting factor on our capacity
to assist foreign growth is that of qualified manpower.

Related to this is the capacity of foreign countries to absorb
outside aid. Mr. Katz thinks that we cannot successfully provide
even one to two billion in foreign aid.

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Mr. Cowles suggested that population pressure is a
fundamental problem which people too often ignore. For example,
the rate of population growth in Japan is such that they must soon
find areas in which to expand.

He suggested that the final motivating force among foreign
peoples will be the decision of the village family, on which system,
the Soviet or our free democratic system, will give them what they need.

Mr. Berle stated that the group should give consideration to
the limits on the capacity of the United States to export both capital
and talented manpower over the next 15 years. He pointed out that at
present we are importing a very large amount of technical talent.

He also believes the group should give consideration to the
issue raised by Gunnar Myrdal "integrate or die". In Mr. Berle's
opinion the U.S. may well need to be more revolutionary in its
attitude and actions.

attitude and actions.

opinion the U.S. may well need to be more revolutionarily in its
issue raised by Gunnar Myrdal "integrale or die." In Mr. Berle's

He also believes the group should give consideration to the
present we are importing a very large amount of technical talent.

and talented manpower over the next 15 years. He pointed out that at
the limits on the capacity of the United States to export both capital
Mr. Berle stated that the group should give consideration to

the Soviet or our free democratic system, will give them what they need.
people will be the decisors of the village family, on which system,

He suggested that the final motivating force amount foreign

the rate of population growth in Japan is such that they must soon
fundamental problem which people too often ignore. For example,

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Mr. Luce said he was somewhat dissatisfied with the outline presented by Mr. Katz. He thought it was too hesitant in its suggestions and that the group should consider more directly the development of a world economic order.

Mr. Granger said that economic and social policies are in-
timately intertwined. The U.S. has not been clear in respect to its
social objectives. Economic policies, in his opinion, should be based
upon and derived from agreed social objectives.

Mrs. Rosenberg said that the outline for Subpanel III talked
only about tools and not about objectives. She believed the group
should concentrate instead on objectives. She suggested the title of
Subpanel III should be altered to read "U.S. International Economic
Objectives and Policy".

Subpanel IV

(No discussion; Chairman not present)

(No discussion. Chairman not present.)

## Subpanel IV

Objectives and Policy.

Subpanel III should be altered to read "U.S. International Economic
should concentrate instead on objectives. She suggested the title of
only about tools and not about objectives. She believed the group
belonged to the group.

Mrs. Rosenberg said that the outline for Subpanel III talked
upon and derived from agreed social objectives.

social objectives. Economic policies, in his opinion, should be based
timely introduced. The U.S. has not been clear in respect to its

Mr. Granger said that economic and social policies are in-
development of a world economic order.

suggestions and that the group should consider more directly the
presented by Mr. Kats. He thought it was too hesitant in its

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