DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By C.C. NARA, Date 5/27

TELECON
Secretary Laird
8/9/71 6:15 p.m.

L: Tomorrow I think everything is set up all right for the Joint Chiefs. We sent a talking paper over there . . .

K: What is Westy talking about, uniform buttons and their impact on morale?

L: No, Westy is talking about $500 million so he can maintain 13 divisions. It's a legitimate request. Under the present guidance, to maintain Safeguard he needs that many men. Zumwalt will go hard for flight modernization. He asked for $1.3 billion more. Ryan will show the need for more airdraft and more sorties . . . the capability to fly more sorties. His is a good pitch. It will probably drive the President up the wall, but it's good. I am going to just introduce Tom Moorer and then keep quiet. This is their day in court. Do you think you don't mind that, do you?

K: No, incidentally, the President would like the Vice President there, just to give him some sense of participation.

L: Good, that's fine. Dave was going to have a visit with you on the NSC presentation . . .

K: Yes, we talked today. What we should do is begin with me doing the general missions project aspect, and then let Dave present the budget.

L: I think I'll present it.

K: On Thursday?

L: No, it's now on Friday. I said I wanted Dave to do it as a way to bring him.

K: No, he can come anyway.

L: Good.

K: Are you through now?

L: I've got two other things/ One is regarding SALT. I hope you don't think we are teaming up, but I am concerned with this offensive limitation

K: I think you are just right. Zero-ABM is for the birds. I agree with you completely.

L: All right, because I am concerned about the offensive thing we tabled over there.

RECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: NARA, Dale 5/27

TELECON
Secretary. Laird

8/9/71 6:15 p.m. p. 2

K: I agree with you. One other thing. State has now put out a memo in which they want to take over country programming. I am not agreeing, and understand that you aren't either.

L: No, the secretaries, the Joint Chiefs . . . all of us are very much opposed to that.

K: Good, if you want to send a memo to me on that it will help.

L: Okay. Another problem. We have been mucking around since March trying to get the defoliation thing worked out. I got a memo from Abe today saying they can't use this around these fire bases. I hope we can shake that loose. . . .

K: I have got that memo right in front of me now. I'll shake it loose.

L: Oh good.

K: Mel, what you people are doing on SALT is exactly what I hoped you would do.

L: . . . . . . . . If you are going to do that you've got to get something for it. It's a better proposition than what we've got in 117 or 120.

TELECON
Secretary Rogers
8/10/71 5:25 p.m.

By

R: I thought it went well. It got a lot of coverage

K: Great. What I saw -- saw the 11:00 news -- sounded good.

R: Yes, and they were very pleased up there. At least it got them
moving in the right direction. Murray Williams (?) will be making an
announcement one of these days.

K: I asked for an appointment with you tomorrow, not for any special
reason, just that I think it is a good idea for us to meet once a week.

R: Yes, good. Bunker is here now. Is there anything special I
should know about? Does he know about the other matter?

K: Yes, not in every last detail, but he knows.

R: I understand. Is there anything particular I should know about as
far as the President's discussion with him?

K: It was about 20 minutes, and between you and me quite banal. It
was about the electoral thing, nothing about Ellsworth's future. He
explained what he thought about Thieu-Minh situation and why he thought
Thieu acted the way he did about Ky.

R: God, he made a mistake.

K: Ellsworth thought so too.

R: He could have become -- and even now he still could -- an overnight
statesman. He could have said he didn't think he had enough signatures, but
just so there was no doubt . . .

K: I tell you, some of these world leaders. Why Yahya had to choose
this moment . . .

R: Isn't that something?

K: The Indian Ambassador came over yesterday, brought over a letter
from Madame Ghandi. He was nervous as a cat. I gave him no comfort; I
said it was between them and the Soviet Union.

R: I'm thinking of asking him to sign with us the same kind of agreement --
that would make him equirm wouldn't it?

K: I don't know. He brought that up yesterday. But we couldn't do it.

R: He brought up doing it?

By NARA, Date 5/27

TELECON
Secretary Rogers

8/10/71 5:25 p.m. p. 2

K: Yes, but we couldn't.

R: No.

K: Actually, if you read it literally, it says that India has to support
the Soviet Union in any situation that involves the threat of war.

R: The Indians just won't cooperate with anyone.

K: One thing he did say was that they would not attack, but of course,
he doesn't exclude, I am sure, attacks by organized guerillas, if they were
to organize.

R: That's right, I'm sure. Okay, Henry, see you tomorrow.