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1 Dr. Kissinger: Yes.

2 Senator Grassley: Dr. Kissinger, I've had an opportunity
to hear your statement about the lack of hard evidence about
4 prisoners being left behind, and I want to kind of lead you
5 away from the question of hard evidence for a moment.

6 I suppose I want to lead you away from the issue of hard
evidence for moment -- I do this because, unlike my
8 colleagues, I am not a lawyer, I am a farmer. You are a great
9 statesman and a professor. You are also a great negotiator --
10 and speak in terms of what your gut feel is.

11 Yesterday, we heard and hopefully you heard Secretaries
12 Laird and Schlesinger say that they believe that we left men
13 behind, and as you sit here today -- and it is 1992 and it is
14 20 years' advantage of hindsight, plus, of course, you were in
15 the loop so very intimately back then. What is your gut feel
16 for whether or not the Vietnamese or the Lao withheld
17 prisoners from us?

18 Dr. Kissinger: I've already said this morning, Senator,
19 but I will repeat it. Secretary Schlesinger, who was my
20 colleague and close associate for many years, said that his
21 present judgment is that they were left behind.

22 At the time he was CIA director and then he was Secretary
23 of Defense, so in a sense these were his people. He did not
24 write one memorandum, make one telephone call, or attend one meeting where he
25 made that statement, so therefore as far as we were concerned

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1 after they reached a deal with the North Vietnamese.

2 Next question: After they reached a deal that all

3 prisoners would be released.

4 Answer: That's correct.

5
Next question: They were -- these were prisoners who
through some intelligence source were known to be alive.

6

7 Answer: They had surrendered at Dien Bien Phu. A large
8 number of them had surrendered at Dien Bien Phu.

9
Then, skipping a little ways, another question: Who was
10 the person who gave you this information?

11 Answer: Well, the G-2 or the French Army.

12 Question: You received this information. Do you
13 remember when it was?

13
remember when it was?

14
Answer: No.

15
Question: But it was sometime that you were defense
16
attache.

16
attache.

17 Answer: Quite early.

18
Question: And the understanding was that the
19 approximately half of the known POW's who were not returned.

20 Answer: An enormously high percentage of known POW's had
21 not come back.

21
not come back.

22
Question: But the understanding with this French
23 experience was that --

23
experience was that --

24 Answer: They would all be delivered back.

25
Question: Was the understanding of this officer who told

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