Reproduced from the open files
of the Nixon Presidential
Materials Staff

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12950, Sect. 3.6

*

By KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELCOM

Secy Packard
Mr. Kissinger
5-28-69 9:05 AM

P said he wanted to chat with K about meeting he is having with Dick Helms this morning. K said he hopes P is sending someone. P said he would like to. P said it is very important to get up-dated report. Fulbright is going to make a claim that Defense's data is all wrong. K said the following had been his strategy: He called Helms on Monday and asked him to do up-dated report. Helms objected bitterly and said we already have the information and wanted to present it to K. K said he wants to get enough disagreement out of meeting so that he can say we have to go to the Pres. K said he is generally reluctant to force a major Dept to do something on his own - he will if he has to. K said he has discussed this with the Pres and he agrees. P said he would have someone present at meeting. K asked if Barudi wanted to come. P said he will get someone over there.

P then brought up meeting at State on May 14 on the question of testing MIRVES, etc. There was quite a little argument in the meeting and the story leaked after. P said Helms may have mentioned this to K. P said he thinks we should get the FBI in and find out what this is all about. P said if we are going to have any success at all, can't do if something is spilled after a meeting. K asked whether P wanted to order the FBI investigation. Kx P said the thought K could do it better. P said he has checked with Seaborg, Johnson and Helms and they think it should be done. K said we will order it today. K asked whether P had any idea where it may have come from. P said it clearly came from people in that room. K asked whether anyone from his staff was present and P said Lynn, Sonnenfeldt and Keeny. P said there was talk about Keeny, but it is third hand. P said there were three people from Defense Science Board - they were stongly of the feeling that you could not control MIRVES by testing. K said for the record, Keeny is with the Arms Control Agency - just with K until confirmed. P said we just can't have things spilled out of meeting the next day.

jm

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By KHU NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELCON
Senator Kennedy
Mr. Kissinger
5-28-69 2:40 PM

K said he talked to a newsman this morning - Mr. Oberdorfer of the Post - who said Senator had the impression that K's backgrounder the other day had Senator has object. K said he mentioned to the Sen in passing, he has special feeling for him and his family and he wants Sen to know he would never do this and would never take the Sen on even if he disagreed with him. K said if backgrounder was related to anyone it would be more to Harriman. K said at any rate, purpose was entirely related to our negotiating strategy - it had nothing to do with Sen. K said we happen to be on opposite sides in a partisan way at the moment but he has high regard for Sen. K said this is a personal call and no one knows he is calling the Sen. Sen said it was not really correct reflection of his views. Senator said some time ago, the morning after breakfast, it got out and it was not from there. Senator mentioned Herb Kaplow.

Senator said to be very frank, it is not really accurate - he did not think that. Sen said the newspaper people talk among themselves and if anyone on his staff gave that impression, it is wrong. Senator said he appreciate K calling. K said he feels a sense of loyalty to people who mean a great deal to him - has nothing to do with politics. Senator said he did not feel that way and he understood. K said the way it came to him was that the Senator felt hurt. Senator said that was not it at all.

K said he hoped they could have breakfast again soon - or lunch. Senator said fine and he appreciated K's note.

jm

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELCOM

Dr. Hannah
Mr. Kissinger

5-28-69 2:55 PM

H said he was calling re legislation on hits way to the Hill.
K said problem as he sees it, and he never knew anything of
this issue and has no strong convictions one way or the other. K
said all he knows is President felt strongly that AID country restrictions
be kept in. H said he knows corporation raises new problem.
K said he is just concerned about how to get H's concern to the
President so he will not say no automatically. K said if H called
him now he would say no. H said it is his understanding from
what was said yesterday that one of real advantages of overseas
private investment corp - as opposed to his agency or others
doing the same things - is that the people in private business
do much better than we do. H said bureaucracy like this one
is so accustomed to being criticized by people on the hill, etc.,
things get bogged down and job never gets done.
H said there is no question at all about President's feeling and
he agrees with him re taking on political flack, etc. K said if H
could get within the next hour a memo over on why he does not
want to apply it, he will get to Burns and have him do one on
why he thinks it should be done. K will then get them to President
and that is best way for H to get a ruling. H said he would have it
over in less than an hour. K said quite candidly he
was sympathetic to H's point of view on this.

jm

By KHLU NARA, Dato

TELCON
Bonnie Angelo (Time)
Mr. Kissinger

5-28-69 4:15 PM

A said she was calling about an interview that Lester Pearson gave one of their correspondents in Canada in which he said President was about to make a statement (A said Pearson is with World Bank Commission on International Development) that is he interested in the work of the Commission and wants to see the report next fall. A said statement is to be ax made this week, and asked if K was a ware of it. K said no, but he is not told everything. A said she thought she better soften it somewhat.

A said she wanted to discuss Vietnam follow-ups and asked K what White House ax feels is proper response. K said he had given a backgrounder and A said she was there. K said we are talking about intangibles. K said we think no incentive would increase our casualties when offensives do start. A asked whether recent clamor has any bearing on US position in Paris. K said he did not think so. K asked whether A was writing an article on this and A said yes, we are filing from Vietnam and here too. A asked if K thought President was under any pressure to get off instructions to Abrams on maximum build-up (?). K said he did not think so.

jm

*

By KHC NARA, Dato. 5/12/04

TELECON
Dr. Kissinger
Elliot Richardson
5-28-69, 8:00 p.m.

K asked R if he was in his car and if he was going to dinner at Kay Graham's. R said he was going to dinner with the Dutch. R asked if "that Admiral" (Rickover) reached K. K said he didn't know. R said he bucked him to K. K asked if he meant "that guy last night." R said yes, he (Admiral) is apparently going to be at this dinner. K said tell him that this has been taken up with the President and he better hold his fire. K also said tell him to get in touch with me before he starts. R said this could be a real problem. K said he didn't reach me (Col. Haig then told K that the Admiral did call). K said if we can hold on. R said it is going to take some real handling and there will be a lot of people at this dinner who will be rooting for our side, including some from the "Pentagon front office." K said we can compare notes.

feg

By KHL NARA, Date 5/12/04

TELECON

Admiral Rickover
Mr. Kissinger

Wednesday, May 28, 1969 - 8:20 p.m.

R - extended invitation for K to visit his office for a discussion so K will know what R does. It will be better to do it there because all of the materials are readily available.

K -- said he would like to do that next week (week of June 2). He mentioned that, on cooperation between the U.S. and the Dutch on nuclear propulsion, the President would envisage the Admiral's controlling discussions. R asked if K thought he could use some judgment in this. K said this was not a good time or place (since the Admiral was at the Dutch embassy for a dinner) to tell R all the things that went into this. But there is no intention of running any risk in compromising.

R -- I think you have to hear from me and ask all the questions you want and you will get a complete understanding of why I appear to have this intransigent attitude. K said he had long admired what R has done and would love the opportunity to meet him. K said R could be sure there would full discussions with him. R will have a majority voice. It is inconceivable that we will act contrary to R's judgment. We thought it politically wise not to close ourselves to financial and logistics discussions. R said he had thought they meant "technical" discussions. K said he would like to discuss that with R when they meet.

R said he appreciated K's calling and asked if K planned to get in touch with him about an appointment. K said he would get in touch with R next week.

lds

By KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELCON
Elliot Richardson
Mr. Kissinger
5-28-69 11:05 AM

R said he had another conversation with the Dutch and there were a coupe of things to get to the President before the 12:00 meeting. R said on KLM we have in effect agreed that landing rights in Chicago for KLM and Netherland Antilles Airline will be granted on basis of rough offer. R said he felt that the statement that is made on departure should indicated there will be further discussions on technical level to negotiate specific terms. K said he agrees. R said he has ldx'd language over to Eagleburger. R said it is quite important that language be precise.

R said item two has to do with nuclear submarines. Luntz is agitated because of Rickover who took hard and insulting line - he also failed to appreciate the facts and Luntz is quite upset. K said he told Luntz on behalf of the Pres what attitude was. R said he knew that but Luntz wanted us to get this to Pres. R said Rickover told him rather smugly last night that he had told Luntz to go to hell. Rickover said his responsibility was to the US of America. R said we have inserted sentence which was *xxkxx* suggested by Luntz which R said would be in statement - R said this had also been *dx ldx'd* over and read it to K. K agreed that it was alright. K asked if there was statement in which we insert these. K said no it is something he would like the President to say - there is no communique as such. R said in both cases the precise language is important. K said he would get this to the President.

jm

By: KHC NARA, Dalo 5/12/04

*

TELCON
Paul Nitze
Mr. Kissinger

5-29-69 11:15 AM

N asked whether K knew Christian Herter, Jr. and K said yes. Nx N said he wondered if K would be free for lunch on June 3 at the Metropolitan Club to lunch with him and Herter. K said he was unable to do it on June 3 and they agreed to make it June 27.

On the other matter, N said he understood it was in limbo for the time being. K said it is one of the most injust things he has ever seen. N asked whether K knew that Fulbright removed his objection and K said yes but it is in limbo until Bill Rogers gets back. N said he understood that and it is forgetting it for the time being.

jm

By KHL NARA, Date 5/12/69

Telecon
The President (From KB)
12:30 p.m. 5/29/69

The President wanted to know if we had any more wars on our hands. and also if we were hitting one today. HAK said no because of Buddha's birthday we called an armistis. The President said we should surprise them anyway but then added that we could do it on Saturday if we wanted and suggested going back to Breakfast. HAK said this was Abrams choice anyway. He said we didn't have a report yet, but that it was more effective than the first one. The President said they couldn't squeel now and HAK agreed.

The President said on the number two question, he has agreed that we will make the statement after Thieu and he meet. To take them off the track, he wanted to leak this. Go into the meeting with a long face and say because of the increased attacks it will be necessary to delay any troop withdrawals for several months. He also wanted State to get that. HAK said Rogers was aware of our intentions. The President didn't want to tell the story to get out prematurely.

HAK said he had a good breakfast meeting with the Christian Science Monitor group.

(missed part of the conversation)

K (K) as a hardliner on Vietnam, he said was that this was the first time the President has lost his sure footed movement. HAK said he hasn't heard a single rumor. No one expects an announcement now. The President wanted to get a back channel to Bunker to let Thieu know we have laid the ground work. HAK suggested doing it (the statement) on Monday after the President comes out of his meeting. The President pointed out that it would be best to their advantage to do it this way, and have the communique come out later that day.

HAK said he would do the draft in California and finish in Honalulu.
The President thought the Foreign Aid thing was getting a big play. HAK
said the liberals have been helping.

HAK said he was going out to meet Rogers. The President wanted him to
tell Rogers that he was happy with the reports and that the Vice President
should also go.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: KHLU NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon

10:00 a.m. 5/30/69

Director Mayo

Mayo wanted to know if HAK was aware that several weeks ago he turned dow $3 million to the Weisman Institute through Aid funds. He said they are wealthy and have just raised $71 million. They agreed this wasn't an appropriate expenditure. Now the American University in Cairo is requesting funds.

HAK said he approved that from a foreign policy standpoint but thought that it should be checked with Erlichman from the domestic point of view. Mayo said this had been done and everything was o.k. HAK said he signed off on it last night.

HAK said the President is sticking with the MOL decision. Mayo was happy with that.

Mayo mentioned his meeting he had on Thursday to coordinate the testimony to be given to the Proxmire Committee on the defense budget. A method of approach has been worked out and thought that Laird and Packard should lead off with McGraken and himself following. He thought it might be a good idea for HAK to meet with Packard and himself to discuss this. HAK agreed (nothing further said about setting something up).

Mayo said despite his having to push hard on every department, the Proxmire thing won't do any good externally but might bring Budget and Defense together internally. HAK agreed and said Mayo had a job to do and was doing it with great understanding.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12956, Sect. 3.6

By: KHC NARA, Dated: 5/12/04

TELCON
Secretary Rogers
Mr. Kissinger
5-30-69 11:35 a.m.

HAK said just wanted to check in with you. I have nothing very urgent. You received all my back channel stuff, didn't you?

R said yes, I received it all. I thought everything worked out fine on the trip. I was just talking to Alex here. The trip really was very successful. We really did not have any sour experience anywhere along the line, even in India. Both Delhi and Pakistan were successful days.

HAK said the reporting on CENTO and SEATO was very favorable also. Was the trip a good experience for you personally?

R said yes, I have really gotten to know the top people in each of the countries. It looks like Nelson is having a rough time.

HAK said yes, he made a mistake starting in Central America. This feeds on itself. R said it seems that he has to complete it now. HAK agreed.

R asked when the President was getting back. HAK said he was getting back Sundaynite. R said, on my business with the Cabinet, I don't want to take much time. HAK said it was our idea to do it. The President wanted it. I think they will all be interested to hear about it. R said I don't need more than an hour and I think I can do it in 30 minutes. HAK said let's schedule an hour. R said I think 45 minutes would be enough. HAK said they will all be interested in hearing your report and your reactions to Vietnam, etc.

R said the Press Corps all said it was the best trip they had been on. Everyone of them spoke favorably of it. HAK said I think the speech gained us a little time and the fact that you got it toned down. R said there was one thing that I was a little unhappy about and I don't know how it happened. It was this thing that the Midway meeting was at Thieu's request. HAK said some news men have called in here and said they thought we were forced into it. There is always more to it than meets the eye.

R said, Henry, the President is calling me. I will get back to you.

mlh

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/12/64

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger
Secretary Rogers

May 30, 1969 -- 12:15 p.m.

K said he had just talked to the President. The President feels
as he does that we should have a Cabinet/NSC meeting on Tuesday
if the Secretary is willing to do it.

R said surely. He is going down at the President's request to
Key Biscayne this afternoon and, perhaps, R can fill him in a little
bit and then he won't have to take so much time in the NSC.

K said we would let Rogers know the time of the meeting on Tuesday.

lds

By: KHLU NARA, Dato 5/13/04

Telecon

Rick Smith - New York Times

6:00 p.m., 5/30/69

Smith wanted to know what HAK made of the various statements Thieu has been coming out with in Korea. HAK said we are relaxed. Smith wanted to know if HAK saw him getting locked into a position that would get us into trouble and HAK thought not. Smith was surprised at Thieu's remarks about troop movements. HAK said we haven't had any direct commutation with him. We are proceeding on the assumption that what we have planned to discuss will be so. Smith thought that Thieu was going back on the troop issue. He was all for it in November and December. Is this going to cause trouble. HAK said no since he has had no official communication. Smith wanted to know if there was something confusion between withdrawals and replacements. HAK said that was possible. Smith wanted to know about the coalition business. Thieu seems to be upset, and wanted to know if there were problems here. HAK said he heads in the newspapers all the time that we have problems with him but we are not conscious of them. Smith felt that we were not pressing the coalition business with Thieu on the other hand it is a different flavor with Thieu saying he will never accept and Bil Rogers saying that subject is open for negotiation. Our position seems to be a more open one than Thieu's. HAK thought that we should accept statements made in his own capital rather than outside on state visits. Smith wanted to know if Thieu wanted a strong statement from the president about coalition at the Midway trip. HAK said he assumed they would be talking on more political lines and said he didn't feel there would be any great announcement on troop withdrawals from Midway.

Smith said HAK didn't sound very confident but HAK expalined it as being intellectually careful to what he says to the press. He thought he would know more about all this next week after having meetings with Bunker.