TELCON
Bob Haldeman
Mr. Kissinger
8-5-69 6:20 PM

H said Mel Laird called him and Laird is now at David. Laird said there are some major decisions which have been postponed that he has to talk to the President about. H said (1) reconnaissance which should go today or tomorrow. K said he does not think Pres should make such a decision - if there is one to be made, it has never been put to anyone else. H asked what Pres should do and K said Pres should tell Laird to take it up with K first - there is regular committee that looks into these things. H said (2) Laird mentioned new orders. K said that can wait too. H said (3) report on first increment and (4) planning report on second increment. K said all of these should be done in regular way. H said the fifth thing Laird mentioned was budget guidance. K said Laird should be encouraged to take it up with K first and then K will submit a staff paper to the President. H agreed to tell the President not to get into it and to tell Laird to take up with K first.

K said he had fascinating trip session yesterday. Before that he thought there might be 10 percent chance of cracking it but now K would raise to 40 percent - if we can keep control of our government. K filled H in briefly on meeting yesterday.

Haldeman
Kissinger
8-5-69 6:30 PM

K said he now knows what that reconnaissance thing is and this is something President does not want to discuss with Laird.

jm

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12958
By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCON
The President
Mr. Kissinger
8-5-69 6:50 PM

P said he got K's message and does not think he will have a chance to talk to Laird anyway tonight - he will tell him they will discuss it when they have a chance to sit down. K said he thought it should come to P thru regular procedure - otherwise P will not have the facts. P said he would try to get it turned around. P said he has no intention of making decision. P asked if Richardson should be brought into this and K said he thought Laird already had. P said as far as tropp withdrawals he will not discuss that until they get to Calif.

K said he wanted to give P brief rundown on his talk - spent 3 and a half hours with their Chief negotiator. K said it was at Sainteny's home and there four of them present - including interpreter and note taker. K said he made presentation along line he had shown to P on plane and similar to what P said to Ceausescu. K said he laid down deadline on them very hard. K said they asked 8 clarifying questions and then launched into usual line. K said he told them if they had nothing new to say, they were speaking in wrong forum and he would leave. K said in every case when he got tough, he moved back. He indicated he was extremely eager to talk again but had no authority yet and wanted to go back to Hanoi. K said he is writing long report now. K said one of his assistants who was present feels this was most conciliatory they have ever been. K said while none of this proves anything before he would have said the chances were one in ten and now he thinks they are one in four or three that this thing will work. P asked what will happen. K said one interesting thing was they said when they want to get in touch again they would prefer to get in touch thru Walters rather than Sainteny. K said they had number of modifications in their negotiating position, but it is not enough for us yet. P said this movement has not been made to Lodge and K said right. He saw Habib right after meeting and K is sure of that. P said not to tell them a thing about it. K said he just went over positions and in abstract way said let me understand position exactly. K said they tried to draw him into discussion about ten points and K told them these are ten points and not ten commandments and we will not talk about them as only basis for solution. K said he told them it is their turn to make proposal now, etc. K said he told them toward end of this year will face another test of strength. K said every time he did that, other side pulled back. P said it looks to him as though they will try to diddle us along, but this also proves that Lodge has not been tough enough. K said he told them Pres will not withdraw troops unilaterally and will not replace Thieu - this will not happen and they have to face as fact of life. K said they will get Romanian report

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

-2-

shortly. K said if we do not hear within four weeks or there is
no movement at Paris. Pres interrupted to ask K what his guess is -
will they want to talk to K again. K said he suggested that they do
normal negotiation in Paris and if they reach point where they want
to tell us something quite new, they get in touch with K. K said he
told them he did not want to come over there to hear the same old
thing. P said he agreed completely with this. K said if they get
in touch and ask to see him it would be the first time in 18 months
that they have asked to see us - the other meetings have been at our
request. P said he wants Lodge instructed to that effect and to stop
begging. K said he told Lodge of change P had made in Saigon statement -
also that P has said he has gone as far as he can go.

K said the French are pleased. P said he got K's wire. K said
Pompidou completely agreed with P's approach - general trip thru
Asia; no new commitments, keeping the old. K said Pompidou
agreed with no further concessions on Vietnam. Pompidou
also said if we ever need French assistance for contacts, he is
available. P said when he talked to Wilson he told him that on
Nov 1 we were going to reappraise and Wilson said he would back us all
the way.

K said he gave Brosio a briefing this morning and P asked how he took
it. K said very well - thought it was great success.

P said he will be plunging into domestic thing and won't be able to do
too much. P asked K about having Laird, Wheeler and Mitchell on
plane on Saturday with them and having meeting. K said that was good.
P and K agreed that Laird should not be told about ploy in Paris. P asked
if Habib knew K said them and K said no, only Lodge. P said if it breaks,
story shou ld be that K had dinner with his old friend Sainteny and
the others were present and they had a social chat.

P said he has had Buchanan leak to Drummond this idea of our going
on the trip to VN and Bucharest was opposed by career State Dept.
P said he took it off Rogers but Rogers will come squealing and
P will say that is what they did and he will not let them do it again.

K said in Europe trip was enormous success - they are enthusiastic
and that is tough press. P told K about incident concerning Fontaine.
of LeMonte.

P said as soon as K gets his breath, he should have a backgrounder and
mentioned (1) Mansfield came up with Guam doctrine and Times referred
to it as Nixon doctrine; (2) point out effectivenss of going to VN
on Hanoi; (3) press will try to quickly throw away and not mention
Romania because they were opposed to it.

P asked K how he got along with Shriver and K said very well - he saw
... ...

TELCORN
Col Hughes

Mr. Kissinger
8-6-69 12:15 PM

K said the trip was superbly managed and just wanted to tell H that.
H commented that K did good work and K said he may, but President
had to bring it off and he was terrific. H said he was pleased
to have been associated with trip in any way. K said he was impressed
with H's handling of things.

H asked when K was going to Calif and K said he would rather go on
Sunday if it can be worked out - there is so much here to be cleaned
up. H said he was not sure they had a plane they could send on Sunday
but said he would look into it. K said this is not why he was gx calling
H - he had asked Haig to call him about this. H said he would see what
could be worked gx out and let Al know. K said he did not see how he
could be ready to leave on Saturday morning and H said the Rxxk
President is not leaving until 4:00 on Saturday afternoon. K said that
would at least makes it manageable but he would still prefer to go on
Sunday.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

TELCOM
Secy Laird
Mr. Kissinger
8-6-69 12:20 PM

L welcomed K back, saying he had missed him. K said he talked to
President this morning after Pres had talked to Laird. K said he
is sorry there was foul-up in B52 business but the General told
K he was going to communicate conversation to L. L said the problem
was there were no targets. L said he would like to talk to K sometime
today and they agreed that K would come over at 5:30 to see L.
K said the Pres tells him reconnaissance will be done now. L said
he would show K the whole program. K said to make sure it is
picked up by them and L said it would be. L said cannot photograph
and that is problem but he will tell K whole story when he sees
him.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958
By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCON
John Ehrlichman
Mr. Kissinger
8-6-69 12:40 PM

K said he was calling E - did not know if Rumsfeld is in E's area or whether K has to deal with him directly. K said Rumsfeld has offered job to one of his staff members who is almost indispensable - Larry Lynn. K thinks Lynn will leave now. K said Rumsfeld should talk to K about things like this - it's tough enough to do his job without having his staff raided. E said he would go to bat for K. K said he does not want Rumsfeld to withdraw offer. K is trying to Talk Lynn out of taking it himself but Rumsfeld should talk to K before talking to K's people. K said he has several other staff members he would be glad to give him.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCOM
Donald Rumsfeld
Mr. Kissinger
8-6-69 12:50 PM

K said it was a good thing he could not reach R earlier - his rage has subsided somewhat. K said he had talked to Ehrlichman in the meantime. K said he does feel strongly that R should not have gone after one of his one or two indespensible staff members without talking to K first. R said someone on the WH staff had talked to Lynn. K said, of course, Lynn would be interested and once interest is established and position offered it puts K in position of standing in his way. R said it was conversation down the line by some of the people who were helping R look and in looking they talked to Lynn. R said he did not meet Lynn until yesterday. K said Lynn has now come to him and the only thing he can say is if he wants to do it he should take it. K said Lynn handles intelligence and program budgeting for K and is practically irreplaceable. R said he could not be offered a position until he indicates an interest but position has not been offered formally. K said he could not now have R not offer Lynn the position. K told Lynn how badly he needs him and hopes he will stay and if he decides to stay with K, K hopes R will not twist his arm. K said he would not veto it because he would have disgruntled staff member on two areas. By the same token, K said, he is practically irreplaceable and K would not know where to start to look. R said he apologized for the box K is in. R said he would like K to see his side - he came on five months late and President said to raid other offices to get the people he needed to get the job done. R said he has had a group of five or six people who are looking for people all over the country and the way they turn up names is by talking to people. They turned up this guy's name and his interest became known. R said Lynn specifically asked that K not be brought into it until he decided whether he had any interest. R said it is impossible for him to recruit without getting some indication of interest. K said he did not feel R should engender interest of people on his staff without talking to him about it - as it happens, K has two or three people he would be glad to give R. K said he was joking but Lynn is one of people he most尊重 on. K said he has recruited good staff so everyone is after them. R said the group of people looking let it be known and Lynn got interested. R said he 也 apologized from K's standpoint, but if K could disengage and see it from his standpoint. R said he has same problem with Chuck Percy - one of his top people is asking R for a job. K said R should feel less obliged toward Chuck than to fellow White House member. K said it is done now but the only thing he would ask of R is that if there was any chance that K had been more persuasive than he thinks he was and Lynn decides to stay. R will not lean. R said he assures K

-2-

of that. K said he was beside himself when he first heard it
and really does not know what to do if Lynn leaves but he will
do something - at any rate, R picked a good man. R said he does
not advocate this but what if President said he would not appoint
him because he was needed on K's staff. K said he knows he could
get the President to do that but he will not do that - it would
not be fair to Lynn. K said if he wants to leave, he has done
such a good job for K, K will not stand in his way. K said
let's see what happens - if he still wants it, K will yield
with good grace toward Lynn and with medium grace toward R.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCON
President
Mr. Kissinger
8-6-69 2:45 PM

P said he had just finished with Cabinet and wondered what was new on K's front. K said he talked to Laird this morning and they are getting together this afternoon. P said Laird will cooperate. P told Laird we would not meet and talk on troop thing until next Tuesday.

K said at this stage he thinks the only chance we have is to stick to line P developed with Ceausescu. P agreed, saying it might work - if not, we have to go another way. K said if anything will work, that will - no one heard it from P as plausibly as the Romanians did; it was beautiful performance. K said he mentioned to the Vietnamese in Paris on Monday that Romanians had defended their position with great intensity.

P said on German thing he will not have any time to work on it so K should just get him a couple of pages. K said he has a memo for P and also a book if P wants it. P said he did not want the book. K suggested that P give Kiesinger report on the trip, a little bit about P's VN thinking, then East-West relations. K said they have internal struggle and will want to get some idea from P what his real convictions are. K said P should say he is perfectly willing to talk as long as issues are concrete and precise - they should understand issues will focus on Germany so they should not be the ones to press it. K said Kiesinger will probably raise with P the size of our forces in Europe and something about SALT.

K said the major thing here is for P to say he has been meticulous about consulting and will continue to consult - recognize this is blue chip. P said main thing is to give him reassurance, and K said right.

P asked what score is on meeting - will K be present. K said it is up to P.

P wondered if he would mind if K were present if he had no one with him.

P said because K is so familiar with German problem he would like him to sit in. K said he thinks Kiesinger knows him well enough that he would not mind. K said he thought they could play it ad hoc - Pres will just call K in. Pres agreed.

P and K discussed K's meeting the press and K said he thought he would meet with them on Friday in some form for Sunday papers. P thought that was good idea. K said Max Frankel has asked to see him and asked if he should relax rule on the Times. P said yes, but not the Post. P said Frankel and Bob Donovan should be used. P and K discussed trip and what a success it had been. P said we are in more positive position on this war than we have been in for a long time. P said it was trip that was taken at right time to right places. K said it will grow in importance as time goes on. P said it was first time President did not give anything away -

-2-

rather than in Washington. K said in Paris he said this was continuation
of policy that President Nixon inaugurated with DeGaulle last February -
open consultation, etc. K said everyone in NATO commented on their
appreciation of meticulousness with which P has handled SALT consultations
P said o.k. - he will see K and K should get some rest.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCOM

Gov Rockefeller
Mr. Kissinger
8-7-69 5:45 PM

R and K talked about the trip - R said what a success it had been. R said he wrote Pres a letter today and will send the letter and country reports, plus the recommendations R has. R said he has been having a lot of little difficulty in getting the report in himself in form he wants. K said we do not need report until early September. K said President would like to see R and on assumption that R is coming to the astronaut dinner suggested 11:45 on Thursday, Aug 14, in San Clemente. R said his problem is he has to settle down and work on the thing. R said frankly he would feel more comfortable working on the report. R think thought he should go to Maine on Sunday and hole up where he would be without phone calls and without interruptions and get this thing done. K agreed that was the most intelligent thing. K asked if R would like Pete Vaky or Nachmanoff to work with him. R said it was a good idea. K said he would be glad to assign one of them and R could count on them - they could give R feel for what is hard to do in bureaucracy. K said they are clearly his people now. R said Nachmanoff is terrific guy. R said the only mistake he (R) made was he did not have anyone fully familiar with LA who worked with him and was up to date who was a writer.

Call was interrupted by a call from the President.

K said he would call R back

jm

DECLASSIFIED

TELCON
The President
Mr. Kissinger
8-7-69 5:55 PM

P said he did not get anything from speech writers on toast tonight that is particularly relevant and asked if K had any thoughts that would be well to emphasize - he was putting in personal thing about daughter, granddaughter, etc. P asked if there is any theme. K said theme again that P ex began on trip which could be theme of P's Administration - what P wants for permanent peace, not just overcoming various crises, etc. That we will work with them - a country that has shown courage and fortitude to come back - now really face the challenge of keeping their eyes on ultimate objective and not on day-to-day temptations and pressures to which they are exposed.
K said something like this would go over very well with them.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

TELCON
Gov Rockefeller
Mr. Kissinger
8-7-69 6:00 PM

K said Bronheim is making a pest of himself. R said he is disaster period.
K said he should restrain himself when he talks to reporters because
they report it. R said he is trying to keep him from saying anything
about Communists. R said he will talk to David - he really is a slippery
guy. K said he does not know him but at Rockefeller's dinner
he told K to use his influence with R. K said he does not have any interest
in him and R said he did not either but they both have an interest in the
report. R referred to earlier conversation on Vaky and Nachmanoff and
K said he thought Nachmanoff was on vacation. R asked
about Vaky's writing and K said he can only judge from memos but
they have been first-class. K said he tells everyone he has never
seen R do anything but a first-class report and K feels perfectly relaxed
and was just suggesting this in case since R said he did not have a writer.
K said they (Vaky and Nachmanoff) are sophisticated and they know
K is committed to making this thing succeed. R said on the country
reports and recommendations he will send extra copy for K. R said
he has not given to State and will wait until after K has seen it and K
can decide.

R mentioned meeting with people from Readers Digest and between the
two of them they would like to do broken run 17 article thing. R said
after K sees it he can tell him what he thinks. R said on reports of
conversations with the Presidents there are some things that are
confidential but a lot of it is not and he is thinking of doing edited
version and sending to these Presidents and saying he would
like to use the material but not without their permission - they could
make any suggestions. R asked K's opinion and K said they may be
reluctant to do it. K said he would take a look at it.

R said he would be in touch with K while in Calif

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958
By DS NARA Date 4/15/86

TELCOM
Secretary Kennedy
Mr. Kissinger
8-8-69 4:40 PM

K said he was talking to the President about a number of things and K mentioned French situation to him. Kennedy said he thought he should talk to Kiesinger - would not ask him to revalue but would talk about the problems in this. K asked what Kennedy wanted Kiesinger to do and Kennedy said he wanted him to revalue but did not think he would. K asked if Kennedy thought Kiesinger would say that he would not and Kennedy said it would be helpful if he did. K said intellectually he agreed that Kiesinger should revalue but did not think it was possible during the middle of a campaign. Kennedy said he would not ask him to do this in the middle of a campaign but since he is in this country when he goes back he will be asked if there was any discussion of this subject. Kennedy said he will not ask him to declare he will or will not but that he might tell Kennedy which way he is going. (Had to get off phone to KENNEDY answer 10) K said it would be better if he announced that he could not revalue but if he decides not to, we should not put pressure on him. Kennedy said but if President does it, it does put pressure on him. K said President does not intend to ask him to revalue. Kennedy asked what we should do - sit here, fold our hands and twiddle our thumbs. K said no, but he thinks we can get statement out of him that he will not revalue. Kennedy said he thought we should discuss it with him. K said he has no problem with that. Kennedy asked what K wanted him to do - nothing. K said no, Kennedy should discuss this with Kiesinger, there is no question about it. Kennedy said he told Bergsten precisely this. K said Bergsten wanted to twist arm to revalue. K said the way Kennedy has put it is very good way - that if he revalues, that would be best; but if he does not, we would like him to say he will not. Kennedy said he would also tell him the effects as he sees them. K said right. Kennedy said he would not be putting pressure on him - the only thing we are trying to avoid is arm twisting for revaluation. K said then they are in agreement.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCON
Amb Mosbacher
Mr. Kissinger
8-8-69 4:45 PM

M said he had been asked to pass something along - or to
inquire about something. A friend of M's from Huston
who is active in the oil business in Libya talked to him about
one of strong men in Libya who was PM of country. M said
his friend ran into this Libyan about a month ago - name is
Halim (?). He (the Libyan) would like to come over and see
the President privately for a few minutes. K said it is
practically impossible - if he wants to talk to K first
and let him decide, K will do that. M said o.k.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

TELCONE
Elliot Richardson
Mr. Kissinger
8-8-69 4:55 PM

R said he had talked with Samuels who felt this devaluation
by itself would really not have a great deal of effect on
the British and he does not think we should try to put any pressu
on the german Germans. R said, however, it would be useful
to make an inquiry of the Germans as to whether this has any
bearing on their thinking. K said that is what Kennedy would
like to do. K said he has had a chance to talk to the
President in the meantime and K said he does not think the German
will do it. K said the fact that the French has done this
reduces some of the pressure on the Germans. K said feeling is
that Germans should be told that from financial point of view,
best solution would be to revalue. If they are not prepared to
do that, the next best thing would be if they would declare
they will not revalue. R agreed. K said he did not think
pressure should be brought on the Germans and R agreed.

K said he was sending over some cigars for R - R said he was
most grateful.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCON
German Ambassador
Mr. Kissinger
8-8-69 5:35

Amb said he was calling about the French devaluation and
wondered about an exchange of views. Amb said he did not
know if President feels need to talk to the Chancellor
about this but the Chancellor is prepared to talk to him
if he wishes. K said he has the President's views on it
and would be glad to give them to the Chancellor. Amb
asked it K could come to the dinner tonight. K said he
was stuck at the office and was uncertain about the time
and asked if he could be fairly flexible about the time.
Amb said of course, any time - before, during or after dinner.
K said he was not sure he could get away - he would like to see
the Chancellor for just five minutes and could give him the
President's thinking. K said above all, we want to avoid
pressure and embarrassment. K asked if Amb would tell the
Chancellor in case someone got to him before K did, that
if anyone goes further than expressing views, it is not
authorized. Amb said if K could not come this evening,
he would arrange for K to see the Chancellor in the morning.
Amb said Chancellor was leaving Washington about 11:00.
K said o.k. - he would let the Amb know.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

TELCOM
General Wheeler
Mr. Kissinger
8-8-69 7:10 PM

K said he is going off to California and there is one item he wanted to mention having to do with Contingency Plans Group on which Admiral Johnson is represented. K said whenever he goes out of town, Alex Johnson pulls things over to State. K's major job is to get these plans done and it would be helpful if Admiral Johnson makes a point that this is under the White House and there is a Presidential directive to that effect. K said if Adm Johnson keeps acquiesing, he (K) will let it ride. K said he has not objection to Alex playing an important role in this but danger is that whole operation will slide. W said he would look into this tomorrow morning. W said he would see K next week.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

Telecon
Secretary Laird

10:20 a.m. 8/8/89 8/9/69

Laird said he got HAK's memo about holding back on cuts for awhile.

K said he talked to the President after their talk. He wanted to give
Wheeler and the Chiefs a chance to go over it for a week. K said we
are not approaching the Chiefs -- it is in Laird's hands. Laid wanted
to brief the President and say go over all the points. K said that would
be a good idea and mentioned that the President was on Laird's side.

K said that this procedure where they give Laird a laundry list is
not acceptable. The President agrees to a $3 billion cut and then
they give Laird the list saying it has Presidential approval. The
President hasn't usually even seen it. This procedure K wants stopped
and will support Laird.

Laird mentioned contingency plans. K sasked what Fulbright meant
by military contingency and Laird explained it. Laird said if any of
the Senators wanted to see these plans, they would have to come to
his office and look at them there. He would not let them out of his
hands for everyone to reproduce. State suggested that he send them
out but he didn't agree. K didn't think he should either under any
circumstance.

Laird said he worked out the chemical warfare thing with Stennis.
There wouldn't be an agreement on the Senate floor and they would come
out for it on Monday.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958
By DS NARA Date 4/15/86

Telecon
Elliot Richardson
9:00 a.m. 8/12/69

K asked R how he was and stated that he just wanted R
to know that he had those memcons for R on Friday, but
inadvertently took them out to San Clemente with him.
K told R they would be waiting for him when he arrives
here. R said thanks for letting me know since he wondered
where they were. K said he thought Haig had sent them
to him and Haig thought K had given them to R.

Richardson suggested that they invite Green to the Korea
and China NSC meeting. K agreed. He wanted to know if
R would be doing the presentation on Korea. K said only
the objectives. He was haveing a brifing today so he
would know where we stand. K said that budgeting was doing
a study. K said he had a three-page memo on this and would
send it to Richardson. R said he had talked with Parez(sp)
on verification.

They decided to have lunch on Thursday.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority

By

DSNARA Date

E.O. 12958

4/15/06

Telecon
Bryce Harlow

8/12/69 9:05 a.m.

Harlow talked to Mansfield and M was upset because the announcement wasn't made regarding his forthcoming trip. Harlow mentioned that at the meeting, the President wanted HAK to get with Ziegler to have something prepared for Tuesday, Aug. 11.

K said "Harlow, you goofed again." Seriously, HAK had forgotten but Harlow could tell Mansfield that the cables had gone out to the countries that Mansfield would be going. to.

K said he would see that the announcement was made today.

(Call put in to Ziegler notifying him of this request.
Z said it would be out today (8/12) at the 12:30 press
briefing.)

DECLASSIFIED

Authority

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

Telecon
Lennard Garment

11:20 a.m.

8/12/69

K said he was sorry he couldn't see Garment before he left
Washington. He read G's report on Israel and thought it was
good. He wanted to know if he was doing a report on the Soviet
Union. G said it was interesting that the Soviets had a whole
set of impressions. G said he told the Soviets there was a very
close relationship between K and the President and K. They
thought the President was very skillful politician. K said we
are passing a lot of messages to them through K instead of
State. He wanted to know if G explained that when K speaks, he
is speaking for the President. G said he made it very clear to
them. K said when he speaks to them, he always writes it out
ahead of time and clears it with the President. They should
not think that speaking with K is independent policy. G said
they are very determined to go their way. K said it gave G
the feeling that he and others would move quite some distance.
K said after a few more rounds, we would want to talk turkey.
G said State suggested that someone from the Embassy go along
with him to the meetings but G didn't agree to that.
K said that Arbatov was a close friend of Brezhnev's and wanted
to know if the conversation was cordial. G said when they dis-
covered that his father was Russian they wanted to send him by-
plane to the town. K said he spoke to Arbatov and he had a high
estimate of him. G said they were curious about Nixon's national
goals. They don't believe he has any goals. They are interested
in HAK and the NSC and the weight of this operation. G thought
he conveyed as clearly as possible what K wanted him to say.
K said they would believe it from G before they would believe K.
G said we would send his report.

G mentioned the Czech film. Someone in HAK's office had said that it could be shown to western europe. He thought it was a very anti Soviet propaganda. K thought we should play it low key on the Sov for awhile, we have needled them quite a bit lately. The Ambassad are to use their own judgment on whether to show this or not and w unless told otherwise.
K agreed.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958
By DS NARA Date 4/15/69

Telecon
Kermit Lansner (Newsweek)

12:00 noon 8/12/69

K was calling Lansner about this week's issue in which L said K suppressed the Presidential news release from Guam until he had done his backgrounder. K wanted to impress upon L that first of all, Presidential backgrounders never get into his office. K doesn't have any responsibility for them. The Secretary of State and Press Secretary were at the backgrounder. It was sent back by the Press Secretary and since the Washington Press Office was closed it was sent through USIA. K didn't give a backgrounder until four days later in Thailand and didn't have anything to do with the Guam backgrounder. The Press Sec. made the backgrounder available to each of the Depts. K said that Blocker should have called him and he would have discussed it. He mentioned again that Rogers and McClosky had a full transcript available to them.

L made comments about the strictness of K and his talking to the press or letting the staff talk. L thought the problem would get worse and mentioned that in past Administrations, Rostow and Bundy use to talk to the press. K said he wnated to cooperate but thought that the WH shouldn't make policy. He would try to let his staff see the press when the question was a good one.

L mentioned some rule about having someone present at K's meeting with press and K said that was ridiculous. This was something the Pentagon use to do.

K offered to have lunch with L in Washington.

DECLASSIFIED

Telecon
Jack Sutherland
10:00 a.m. 8/13/69

K wanted to ask about an article which appeared
in the U.S. News and World Report. It said that
Rogers lowered the bomb on HAK in the presence
of the President. He wanted Sutherland to know
that this was totally untrue and a complete
invention. He didn't want to know the name of
the source but would appreciate just the source.

Sutherland said he would check with his editors
and call him back.

Sutherland called back - missed the first part
of conversation but Sutherland did say it was
compilx compiled from various sources in the State
Dept.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958
By DS NARA Date 4/15/66

TELCON
Secretary Rogers
Mr. Kissinger
8-13-69, 10:05 a.m.

K said Bill I have three things. One, Ehrlichman asked me to intercede with you to accept the keynote speech at the Veterans of Foreign Wars. R said I don't think I will do it. Mel Laird will be there. Why don't they havekhim do it? K said this will be a major effort. R said it would not be good forum for me. I talked to Bryce about it and Mel will be on the program so why don't they switch it around and have Mel do it?

(Missed part of telcon - must have been talking about some press stories). K said I want you to understand. I did not talk to them. No one on my staff talked to them. I have now found out who has. K said you should assume as a general rule when I talk to the press it will be in the form of a backgrounder. R said it did not make me mad. I think the President is making a mistake if he is putting that line out. He will alienate State people and they were beginning to like him. K said I think the relations are basically good. R said I do too. K said certainly with the Assistant Secretaries - those I have to work with - are fine. R said if the President fights with the press he can't win that battle. K said members of my staff are not permitted to talk to the press at all. R said we have not had any leaks in some time. K said there have been three or four stories out of State on me in the past week. R said, have there - I have not seen them.

R said the other thing that is bothering me a little is leaking stories about which Cabinet members supported him on the domestic side and who did not. This is awful. K said there are two things the White House should never do. They should not give the impression they have an independent policy and internal discussions should not be leaked to the press. R said if they are going to leak stories about fact that there are 3 good guys and 9 prigs, the people will be unhappy.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCON
Secretary Laird
Mr. Kissinger
1:40 p.m., 8-15-69

L said we are working up a game plan on getting information out there so that you would have plenty of time to look at it - i.e., the second increment. Rather than send it by courier, I will have Admiral Lemos bring it out. Pursley will work with Haig as to when they can come out and brief on it.

K said I will be in San Francisco Thursday and Friday of next week. L said you don't want to wait until Labor Day or it would not have any impact at all. It is important not to have a date in this next one. I think by then things will have quieted down on President initiative. I think he should move no later than 27 Aug because you throw it into Labor Day period and you will lose the whole impact.

K said unless you do it right after Labor Day. L said we are ready any time. L said if we are doing it before Labor Day we should do it no later than the 27th. Bob Pursley will work it out with Haig. I think you are probably getting trapped into having some announcement in August. After the NSC meeting, it will be lost.

K said why couldn't we announce it on the day of NSC ? L said that is Friday and Friday is not good. K said I agree. Then we ought to do it Thursday. Are you in that ballpark we talked about yesterday? L said that is what it will be. K said are they very anguished? L said yes but we can work that out. We can work cut-off date that level can be reached of 486,000 by December 18th. L said we will go on that figure and we will also have a package for Thailand.

K said, on Thailand, give us two packages - a smaller one and a larger one. I talked to the President about it after you left and he would like to look at both.

Another subject: K said, Mel, on that case in Vietnam. what would you like to do. I take it you will get a plan of action to us on Monday. L said the Colonel has admitted

DECLASSIFIED

-2-

the whole thing in letters. He should not have written
letters. My problem is I don't think it is in our interest
to have a court marshal. Abrams called the Colonel in and
the Colonel lied to Abrams and said he did not do it.
K asked why the Colonel did it. L said I don't know. This
is the thing Abrams did not like - the fact that he was lied
to. This is a problem. The Colonel could have gotten this
guy disposed of by the South Vietnamese. CIA advised him to
do it that way. If that all comes out, the fact that they
were told to not do it this way - it will be bad. K said
what we would like to do is avoid a court marshal.

L said here is my problem. Before they make a decision
on the court marshal they will be in touch with me. If they
(the attorneys?) can make a charge that higher authority is
intervening, this will not be good. Stan Resor is going
out there Monday. We can't even put this on back channel.

L said I am getting those boys out of jail - they can stay
in their house under house arrest. Maybe I ought to talk
to you on the secure phone when you want to know about it.

L said we are going to say the whole thing is being reviewed.

K said I will call you on Monday about it.

L said Cong. Rodino has the letter that the man sent his
wife in which he admits doing it. He should never have
written the letter and his wife should not have sent it
to the Congressman. It is a screwed up deal. L asked if
K had any suggestions. L said the L.A. Times supported the
way I handled the Foreign Relations Committee. I have not
heard the end of that though. K said we will back you complete

If you want, we will get a Presidential order. L said OK,
I will talk to you Monday.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority

E.O. 12958

By

DSNARA Date

4/15/06

Telecon
Secretary Rogers
9:15 a.m. 8,8/69

Rogers wanted to touch base with the President on the
subject of Thailand and Laird's problem with the Foreign
Relations Committee. The question is what do we do
about showing the committee the contingency plan. Mel
thinks the President doesn't want him to show anything
to them. K indicated he thought Mel's procedure was
that they could see them (only the Thai plan) but it
would have to be in Mel's office. The thing we don't want
is for them to have possession so they can make copies.
Rogers didn't feel the place was the problem. It would
be worked out at the Pentagon or even the White House.

K said he wasn't very happy about showing the plans.

Rogers said he would go along with Mel's procedure if it
comes up on the press conference and just fuzz up the
exact place. K said he would mention the actually **place**
to the President and get a ruling.

K added that the President agreed with Mel's procedure
and certainly didn't want the plans out of Mel's hands.

Rogers wanted to know if the President was going to issue
a statement on Czech. K said if he did, it should be
very low key. Just for the record, we shouldn't let the
opportunity pass. Rogers said if he wanted to issue a
statement out here, he could just refer to it.

K said he would call Rogers back on these two things.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/1966

Telecon
Secretary Laird
9:30 a.m. 8/18/69

Missed the first part of the conversation but caught HAK
saying "We will do it for one more week.

Laird brought up NSSM 3 study. He mentioned the Navy study
that is well along. He can make the deadline of Sept 3.
In view of NSSM 3 and discussions about what the budget
level will be, this will have an effect upon the Naval
study. He wanted to know if he could slip it three weeks.

K said the President would prefer to slip the date of
August 29 but feels he promised Laird. Laird said he had
to start making some budget cuts but he could slip it but
should also then slip the Navay study. K said he would
confirm the new date of the NSC. Laird also asked him to
confirm the NSSM study til Sept 3. He would go ahead on
a few force structures that have nothing to do with the
personnel. He mentioned the two ships that stand out there
for the President. They each have 1,000 men on them and this
would be a savings of about $14 million. K thought that would
pose no problem.

Laird mentioned the contingency plans for Haiphong. Everyone
knows we have them in the JC. K said we can't get into the
business of revealing our contingency plans. Laird said he
didn't want to do it. They only one they can see is the
Thailand. K said the Haiphong should be considered a Navy
readiness test. Laird agreed. K said we should get a
Presidential policy that military contingency plans cannot
be revealed. K mentioned that Rogers wanted them to be shown
in the White House but didn't think the President should get
involved with the Senatorial fight on this.

K asked about the Laos paper. Laird said it was being sent
out by courier.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCOM
Arthur Burns
Mr. Kissinger

11:25 a.m., 8-18-69

K said he was just talking to the President and asked me to express his gratitude for your advice yesterday. B said that is why I was calling you. The foreign exchange market has been rather quiet. The British have gained. They gained some $60 million and Belgiums have gained as well. The sterling rate improved as did the rate for the Belgium frank. K said so temporarily that is good. What did Kennedy do with Strauss? B said I checked with Volker about 12 o'clock and as of that hour he had not as yet called but he was going to. K said and he understands that he is not to raise revaluation. The President just said that again.

B said I talked to Kennedy yesterday and he does not quite understand that. K said we have had more trouble getting these cabinet people under control. Will you call him and say the President does not want it raised. He said it again this morning. B said no because what he talks to Strauss or Schiller about is financial situation. That he can do without talking to the President but when he talks about revaluation then you have interference by foreign government. K said that is exactly our view. B said I I hate to call him but I will. K said tell him I talked to you and just talked to the President and I asked you to call him. He can talk to them about financial matters. B said yes, if he doesn't talk to them about this he is not doing his job.

K said if you can make him see that it will be a help. B said I but I am not sure I got through to him. This is something I learned during the 1950s. The world does not change. K said thank you very much. You have been an enormous help as always. If you would keep me posted, I would appreciate it. B said I will.

DECLASSIFIED

Telecon
Secretary Laird
11:30 a.m. 8/19/69

K said he checked with the President about the contingency plans. (1) they should be looked at only at the Pentagon (2) the only one they can see is the **TAXI** Thai plan and no others are to be shown. We will fully brief the Senate Committee on our commitments but the contingency plans have no standing. He hadn't had a chance to mention the command ships thought. Laird mentioned again the savings but said this time that it would be $20 million.

K mentioned the Flora Lewis aritcle. He wanted to make sure that Laird was aware that any studies being being done with ODO funds had been cleared with Sec. Packard. Laird said he had no problems here. Laird said Persley and Haig had worked some of them out. K asked if Laird minded if we put out a statement saying that her story was totally unture and Laird had no objections.

Laird said someting about the timing in order for General Abrams to talk to the Defense Minister and Chief of State of Vietnam and Bunker's visit with Thieu. Their (Def.) proposal will be ready soon He understood **TAXI** there was an appointment and would be **AAN** presented Monday. Adm. Lemos is coming out Sunday. K suggested that he might come outlearlier -- maybe Friday. Maybe we ought to aim for that. He thought we ought to give the Australians more warning. We should announce on Thursday and Laird would bakcground on Friday.

Laird said he wanted to set a **XX** troop ceiling this time. Right now in Vietn there is 524 but the body count is 515. We have probelms with the difference in figures. K said the President agreed and was impressed by that argument.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCON
Attorney General
Mr. Kissinger
10:10 a.m., 8-20-69

K said I am calling you about three things. One is - you
may have read the Flora Lewis story in Los Angeles Times
yesterday. It is one of these news stories that is
absolutely untrue. The part about overthrowing the
Brazilian Government is so absurd. It is just a vicious
press leak again. AG asked if it came out of Washington.
K said yes, she is in Washington. AG asked if State
would know about the studies. K said they would know about
the Brazilian study. The other thing is that it was done
without Laird's knowledge. It was cleared by Packard.
They were all done for ongoing NSC studies. You often
read stories that are distorted - this is a total mis-
representation.

AG said someone had to put it in that context and get it
out in that context. K said there is not the remotest
truth to it. AG asked if K thought it came out of Defense
or State. K said there is a sorehead at Defense. The
program analysis we are doing makes people unhappy. For
the first time, we are putting together all American expendi-
tures in a country and analyzing over a five-year period
and whether there are alternative ways of accomplishing
objectives. As part of this we came across the fact that
ARPA has spent $10 million on counterinsurgency in Thailand.
This program analysis is purely technical - not policy.
All we do is put expenditure in country and see if it
duplicates anything else and see if it is all necessary.
Some could have come from Defense or it could have come
from State.

AG said yes Henry, but someone did a programming job on
this. K said I know Packard signed all of these and I
cannot swear Laird knew about it. Laird said yesterday
he is aware of it and content with it. Do you think one
should reply to this? AG said no, I don't think you
should reply. You should spend your time finding out
who in State or Defense put this out and let them know
an investigation is being made. It has the effect of re-
straining them and keeping them from doing more of this.

K said about the only thing that is true in the story is
the countries included that are being studied, i.e.,
Middle East, Brazil, Thailand. AG said somebody did a

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.o.12958
By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

-2-

real job on this in planning the information and directing it
and obviously knowing it would not be consistent with the
facts for the purpose of hanging it around your neck. K
said the fact is that they were not leaking true facts.

K said the second thing is that planning exercise I sent
over to you, on the sources of supply into that country
and those two belong together. AG said I understand that.
I looked at it and will get it pack to you.

K said third thing - President called me and said some-
thing about playing golf with him today. AG said he has
not said anything to me about it. K said OK, I will just
sit tight and wait until I hear from him. If you are
free this evening, and assuming I will not be with the
President, would you and Martha like to stop over for
drinks. AG said fine, we will be there.

DECLASSIFIED

TELCOM
Secretary Laird
Mr. Kissinger
10:45 a.m., 8-20-69

K said I was just talking to the President about the Mississippi hurricane business. He would appreciate it if the Defense Department would put whatever resources they have into this.

L said have you not gotten a report on what we have been doing there? We have assigned troops, etc. I called General Lincoln and told him I wanted him to inform the President and the Vice President. K said we would like to make a statement of what everyone is doing. L said the Vice President will brief on the military aspects in New Orleans today. K said did you say you sent two generals with the Vice President? L said yes, I sent two generals with him. I have given additional aid - national guard has been called out and I have given additional military that they needed. L said the Vice President was to be briefed on the way down so that he could brief on it in New Orleans. L said I will get a report to you on it. I said that will be fine. I think the President will be very pleased. L said I have asked the Secretary of the Army to make all resources available that are needed. I will get all the information to you. L said I asked General Lincoln to get that you and the President. I regret that you do not have the information. K said I am seeing the President in two minutes and he will be delighted with it.

L said on Sunday we designated and set up a Task Force 24 hours a day and dispatched the people to areas immediately. K asked if there was anything L needed from here in the way of authority or latitude. L said no, it is like the forest fire up in Alaska. We have 1,000 mean up there on that. K said I am sorry to have interrupted your lunch. L said that is perfectly alright - I am having lunch with George Meany, Kay Graham and ? White.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCON
Larry Lynn
Mr. Kissinger
12 Noon, 8-20-69

K said I have the following question. I have been talking
to Flora Lewis about her article. I want to make certain
I tell her the truth. What is Rand doing on Brazil?

L said all we are doing (K interrupted to say he was
putting Flora Lewis on an extension) is hiring and paying
for one consultant for a limited period of time to assist
us in the Brazilian study. Probably for period in the
order of about 30 days. He may do some written work for
us but it will be submitted to the Ad Hoc Group. He will
be doing a paper shortly - working on the Brazilian
political situation. K said that is in relation to your
program study? L said that is related to our NSSM study
on Brazil. K asked if there were anything being done that
would lead anyone to do a study on how to overthrow the
Brazilian Government. L said that is absolutely nor
correct. L said the Chairmanship of the steering group
will be provided by the State Department.

At this point, Flora Lewis interrupted to say: The key
point is whether or not in addition to the formal contract
there was correspondence on the meaning or direction of
the study. L asked between whom. Lewis said between
White House staff and Rand indicating what the study
should be? L said not that I am aware of. I am not
aware of any correspondence but I will check that point
and let you know.

K said on the basis of that meeting on Friday, I asked
(Flora Lewis dropped off here) you to do a memorandum of
instruction to the Department. Can you get that to me?
L said I am working on that right now and will get it to
you as soon as I can. K said to the best of your knowledge,
is there any reason to believe that we are studying any
way to overthrow the Brazilian Government. L said that
is absolutely untrue. K said alright Larry, thank you.

DECLASSIFIED

Telecon
The President
2:15 p.m. 8/20/69

The President had just finished his meeting with Peter Flanigan where they discussed State's proposal for the Astronauts' trip around the world. He wasn't very happy with it. K said he had talked to Borman about this and asked him to come up with a recommendation

P - They had nothing in North Africa. I think we should go to one city in North Africa and instead of capitals, go to major cities. Like Casablanca. Re Black Africa -- we have done enough for Ethiopia, maybe we should go to the Congo. It is the only place that is half way under control. We can't completely skip it can we?

K - No. What Borman and I discussed was a trip in which they would all start out in Western Europe (Pompidu is a great space fan), split up and meet in Japan.

P - State had them going to Peru and Chile, and I think we should drop them both. Neither of them makes sense.

K - I agree. Brazil would be good.

P - And Mexico City. In Eastern Europe they have Yugoslavia. I think we ought to avoid is having them go to the same cities that I went to on my trip. They will just compare the two responses.

K - I think we should try Hungary.

P - I mentioned Hungary and not Romania. In Europe they had them going to both Berlin and Bonn. They should do just Berlin. Then do the other major cities like London, Paris, Rome.

K - Maybe Madrid.

P - State doesn't have Madrid or Portugal. In Asia they have to do Japan. I would skip Korea and Taiwan.

K - Indochina would be good.

P - I was thinking of that but that would be dreary. I still would like them to go to different cities. May do Singapore. In terms of India/Pakistan, the question is whether they should do them at all or why don't they go to Bombay or Calcutta. We should do East Pakistan (Dacca).

K - Bombay is a safer place. There are a lot of reasons for going there.

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P - If you leave things in their hands like this, they come out with an utter disaster. They probably have the country desks handle it. They left out North Africa and Spain completely.

K - If we can go to Yugoslavia or Romania. We can go to Spain.
Hungary should be approached before Yugoslavia

K said he would meet the President at 5:30 in his office.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority

E.O.12958

By

DSNARA Date

4/15/06

TELCON
Secretary Laird
Mr. Kissinger
9:10 a.m., 8-25-69

K said Mel I have two things I would like to take up with you. I take it you are moving ahead on getting the troop withdrawal figures on Saturday and, that, I don't suppose requires you to come out here. L said that is correct. K said the President would like a breakdown of our casualties over the last six weeks (or over two months if you can) and where they occurred. In what sort of action. Was it patrolling, were they being shelled in a fixed in-stallation, did they step on mines? I would like to get in his mind once and for all if we reduced patrolling, would we reduce casualties. L said alright, I will get those out to you.

K said, on the draft Mel, the President would like two figures. If you reduced the draft to zero for two months, then what would happen when you resumed them? Second, what if you reduced them over a longer period? If he could see these two options, he could then decide which of the two he prefers. I advised the President that you would be making a statement about 10 days after we made the withdrawal statement. L said in connection with that I want you to be aware that the college Presidents, like Brewster, have come up with the idea that we should only allow volunteers to serve in Vietnam. I told them that was impossible until you got down to the level of 250,000. You can't maintain the level you need on a volunteer basis if figure is that which is at present.

L said 250,000 level could be maintained with volunteer force but not with present force. L said I wanted you to understand about 250,000 figure - that it has to do with volunteers exclusively in Vietnam. K said well you didn't say you were in favor of this, you just said if you went to volunteers you could maintain volunteer force. L said Brewster, etc. think we can maintain it with volunteers there and we cannot unless figure is down to 250,000. There is a little confusion about that and they were going to come out with a statement but it will not work unless it was down to 250,000.

DECLASSIFIED

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By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

-2-

K said I won't raise it with the President but if he
should raise it with me, I will tell him. L said I
am putting out a public release on force level today be-
cause of the confusion (read the release to HAK).

L said the problem is Brewster and the others went out
to go with the program of 250,000 and I don't want
them doing that. K said if you can make it as clear
as possible that the program can be reached only
with 250,000 level, it would be the thing to do. L
said I will make it very clear and reiterate the
three points again today. L said on the draft thing
we are meeting with Hershey today and going over the
whole thing with him. K said good.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority

E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/1966

TELCON
Secretary Rogers
Mr. Kissinger
12:30 p.m., 8-25-69

R said I don't understand. What is this call by Tony
Lake? K asked "to whom". R said to Dave Newsome.

K said the President told me this morning that he did
not want anything on this thing until he got back.
R said I am not going to let your people call over here.
R said I am not going to have your people calling my people.
K said what we do is call the Secretariat because I don't
want to bother you with every little thing. R said it
seems to me that on operations you should deal with me.
K said the President mentioned to me this morning that
he did not want to pass on this stuff. He said to tell
them (State) I don't want to do anything until I get
back so I came back and told my people to advise the
Secretariat.

R said I don't want Roger Morris snooping around over
here. When Newsome said to Morris, who tells the
Secretary, Morris said I guess you have to. So Newsome
came up and said this is what the President wants.
If this information is going to be related in this way,
my relations with my staff will be diminished. R said
now what does the President want. K said he does not
want anything done on Nigeria/Biafra.

K told R in future he would make sure information was
passed through proper channels.

DECLASSIFIED

TELCON
Mrs. Clare Booth Luce
Mr. Kissinger
1:30 p.m., 8-26-69

L said Henry, how are you liking California. L said Henry I am going to be in Washington from September 14th for about 4 or 5 days. I would love to lunch and chat with you. Do you want to make a date now? K said we can make a date now. L said how is Tuesday, September 16th. Let's lunch where there are not mobs of people. K said that is fine, I will decide on a restaurant and be in touch with you later.

L said she would be at the Waldorf until the 13th, and in Washington she would be staying with Pearl Mesta. K said I will leave word one place or the other and I am looking forward to it.

L said I am delighted with what they did on Italy. I think things are much more serious than they seem to be. I think the man you sent is top-notch Foreign Service Officer. I am so pleased. K said he seems like a good man and, in addition, he is an excellent Foreign Service officer.

L said I sent a letter to Dick that I will not be going to UNESCO. I have to have an operation on my eyes. I sent word that I hoped in filling that job (having done my homework on it) that what is required in that job is not a Foreign Service Officer but an ideal man would be a recently retired college professor with administrative ability, and some academic lustre. If you do know someone it would be a great help - not a politician, a typical politician would be lost.

lost. K said I will think about it and I will look forward to seeing you on the 16th.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06