*

Secy Laird
Mr. Kissinger
3/3/69 12:20 pm

Secy Laird is sending over some recommendations of JCS, which
he had held up, pending the President's return.

Laird and HAK will have breakfast, at the Pentagon, 7:30 am
Tues., 4 March.

HAK said he would try to arrange a meeting with the President on
Tuesday: it would involve Laird, Wheeler, HAK and the President.
(we called Laird's office w/tentative apptmt March 4 at 10 am with Pres.)

Laird was initially to leave for his trip on Wednesday at 9 a. m.
This conflicts with NSC meeting, so HAK said he would try to get it
changed to 8:30 a. m., and Laird will delay his departure until 11:00.
HAK said it was imperative the Laird be at the NSC meeting.

*

TELCORN

Richard Pedersen
Mr. Kissinger

3-3-69 4:15 PM

P said K would be receiving a letter from the Secretary tomorrow.
P said he had put on LDX a telegram from Paris - if K can clear
P will get it out. P said he went ahead and sent Rome. K said he
would get into P's files a summary of the President's conversations.
K would like this kept in Secretary's office. P said he on the telegrams
P asked whether K sees any problems with this. K said no, he thinks
it is essential.

K said President had asked him to find out what we are doing on
Cambodian recognition. P mentioned warm response from Sihanouk
which President had seen on trip. P said Australian Amb is going to
make oral probe today - estimate is that Sihanouk will be interested.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

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TELCON
Secy Rogers
Mr. Kissinger
3-4-69 10:55 AM

R said that a few days ago Gerry Smith had been called by Senator Gore who was holding some sessions on the ABM and asked Smith to testify. Smith agreed to do it and did not know Defense had been asked and would not testify. R said Smith could not very well get out of it now unless directed to do so. K agreed and asked when Smith was testifying. R said on Thursday and he would maintain position that no decision has been made. R hopes no decision is made at NSC tomorrow. K said the decision will be made on Thursday and will be announced at 3:00 PM.

jm

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TELCON
Ambassador Yost
Mr. Kissinger
3-4-69 11:00 AM

Yost said he was calling because he had read in the paper that there would be an NSC meeting tomorrow and wondered if he should be present. K said it was not on the Middle East. Y asked if there was anything scheduled in the NSC on the Middle East in the near future. K said no but that Yost would be invited if there were a meeting on this subject. Y said he wanted to learn what happened in connection with the trip and how we proceed. K said he thinks we will be moving ahead on the four-power track. Both agreed this should wait until after Eban visit.

jm

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TELCON
Joseph Sisco
Mr. Kissinger
3-4-69 11:05 AM

Sisco said he had Rabin with him but had stepped out to talk with HAK. Sisco is telling Rabin (whom he understands is seeing HAK at 11:30) that it is better for him to hear from HAK about the trip than for Sisco to get into it.

S said he did get over paper to HAK on Middle East for President's press conference. HAK said he had received it and will be sending it up to the President.

Both agreed that preliminary session with President was desirable (this had been discussed the night before) and Sisco said he would try to get it laid on for tomorrow - would get Yost down as well. Sisco said he is also going to start putting something down on paper.

jm

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TELCON
Secy Laird
Mr. Kissinger
3-4-69 3:40 PM

L asked whether K had made any kind of a commitment to Healey that he could come in March to see L. K said no. L said he had *no* numerous Hill commitments and asked what K thought of his having *no* commitment to Healey come a day or so before the NATO meeting. K said that was entirely up to L. L said Healey said K had worked out an arrangement for him to come in March - K said that was absolutely wrong.

jm

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TELCON

Secy Laird
Mr. Kissinger

3-4-69 5:15 PM

L said K had mentioned a little about our discussions after the meeting tomorrow and asked whether K thought the President would want to go along fairly soon on the Sentinel. K said yes - he thinks he may want to on Thursday. L asked whether there was any need for help on the statement. K said we would do statement here drawn from L's paper and others and then discuss with whomever L designates in his shop. L said he was concerned about whether press should be briefed. K said he thought that should be done since we will not go into detail - Defense should have backgrounder as soon as possible. L said Dave could give the backgrounder on Friday. K said he thought it should be laid on for about 4:00 on Thursday, but nothing should be said about it yet. L said he and Dave will go together before the Armed Services Committee on March 18. L said he would bring all of this up tomorrow.

Re NSC meeting tomorrow, L will just do brief five minutes then Dave will make presentation. K said Dave should go into some of the technical characteristics, etc.

jm

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TELCON

Secy Packard

Mr. Kissinger

3-4-69 5:20 PM

K said he was checking about the meeting tomorrow - asked if P
was going to include something about defense of minuteman, etc.

P said yes and described plan. P said he has got everyone together
and they are all agreed and will support on uniform basis - everyone
is on board. He has commitment from all the Chiefs and the Joint
Chiefs. K said P should also bring up difference between system
that he found and one he is orienting.

K asked P what his judgment was about getting this through the Senate.
P said he thought it could be done so long as President comes out
strongly for it. K said he will.

jm

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TELCON

Secy Laird
Mr. Kissinger

3-4-69 6:20 PM

Re Sentinel - K said we should be sure everyone is saying the same thing and asked about holding up announcement until Monday. Asked if L agreed. L said yes he had been thinking about the middle of next week but thought Monday would be better. K mentioned perhaps getting out little book (question and answer type thing). L thought this was good idea and said perhpas the President could release it.

K said he would take this matter up with the President.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

TELCON
The President
Mr. Kissinger

3-4-69 7:10 PM

President said one point he thought might come up - there may be questions on result of discussions with Lodge - new directions, etc. Asked wxx what score is. K said that is point he failed to cover. K said President should say now the negotiations are entering new phase; getting down to hard bargaining. K said he might consider saying that even during last month there have been some indications of movement that give us some confidence for the future, which is true. President should at least indicate that we are entering new phase - indicated direction which the team should take. Something could be said along the line that issue is so complex that they will understand with so much face involved on all sides, very inappropriate to go into details.-- even ask the public to have understanding and patience. K said not to indicate forum in which this will take place. President said what if they ask if there will be private talks -- he will just say it is against the nature of private talks to even discuss it. President said we have to play it very cool. K said he should indicate we know where we are going, plan exists, some progress has been made which indicates the end of this phase. President agreed that was way to do it.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012958

By MW NARA Date 081004

3-4-69 7:55 PM

President said one point that is not quite clear in the briefing is whether or not we consider these attacks on the cities as violations of the understanding. K said that is deliberate that it is not quite clear. K said the position we should take is that we determine what is a violation -- strictly speaking it is a violation. K said what President could say is that Kx it is a violation of the understanding but our reaction is not automatic. President said we do not want to put ourselves in a pxx box where we have to respond? K said not unless President wants to say we have no decision he has deliberately chosen not to respond.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority EO 12158:
By MW NARA Date 08/06/98

TELCONE

Secy Rogers
Mr. Kissinger
3-5-69 10:45 AM

R said in the car on the way over this morning, Gerry Smith
told him about HAK's telephone conversation last night.
K said on this issue he wanted to have the President have the
opportunity to raise it with R because he (HAK) knew what
the President was saying at the Press Conference.

R said on things like this it creates bad atmosphere if his
people tell K what they are thinking about and then K raises
the subject. R said K should call him first. K said President
asked him to explain to Smith what he had put in letter to R.
R said he thinks it is very bad for him and Department if K
calls his subordinates and gives them instructions, particularly
on a subject K and R have talked about. K said his call to
Smith was not intended as an instruction - what he had wanted
to avoid was a debate when he knew what President was going
to rule. K said he wanted President to raise with Smith or
R and as soon as Smith told him that R was going to raise it,
K told K to go ahead Smith to go ahead.

R said President has told everyone thatxx he wants different
points of view expressed and R does not think we should suggest
to anyone that they should not express their point of view -
it is bad if people in Department have feeling that K knows
what they are thinking and can exercise veto. K said the President
wouldx could tell R that K told him first thing this morning what
the pro proposal was. R said if K tells President what he is thinking
he will keep everything close to his chest and not even tell K.
K said from that standpoint it was probably bad judgment to do
it the way he had. R said he has no objection to K's calling him
because he is relaxed about it, but it is not the same case when
K does it to others in the Department.

K said he had been trying to avoid a big hassle at the meeting.
R said he thought it very important not to have the meetings
sound all cut and dried and he did not think there would be
any big hassles.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

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TELCOM

Joseph Sisco

Mr. Kissinger

3-5-69 2:45 PM

Discussed press conference of last night.

Re the Middle East, Sisco said he is developing a paper and has told the Secretary that they should get together with HAK. This afternoon Sisco and the NEA staff are briefing Rogers fully on all aspects of ME situation. S said R wants to discuss French plan and S is trying to develop scenario. K asked whether S had copy of French plan and asked S to LDX it over.

S said he thought K had handled Rabin very well - description of where we are on policy was correct. S understands Israelis were not too happy with what the President said last night about 4 power.

S said his instinct at present is that there should be no overall policy statement but should be done systematically for the time being, piece by piece.

Discussed Sisco's tea (?) yesterday. S said full tel is coming over to K on this.

K said for S's info only he had seen the Secretary about a half hour ago and told him his preference - Rogers seemed to agree with it.

jm

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TELCON
David Rockefeller
Mr. Kissinger
3/5/69 6:45 p. m.

DR had lunch with Amb. Pastrana, and the report he has on Colombia is very encouraging. DR feels that the Colombian President is without doubt the best Latin American President, and it would be wonderful if President Nixon could invite him to come visit the US as a sort of prime and first Latin American President to visit the US. It's a matter of some urgency, because right now he is considering an invitation to visit Europe, and DR feels it would be a slap at the US if he were to go to Europe first.

HAK said he would raise the matter here and see what the reactions are. But he pointed out that the President's schedule next month is really murder. DR said the main thing is to get the invitation in, even if its 2-3- or 4 months from now.

HAK mentioned his March 15th date with DR (made the other day).

###

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TELCON

Tom Ottenad, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Mr. Kissinger

3/6/69 10:40 a. m.

Ottenad called about reaction to the President's remarks at his press conference re Europe as a balance. Some of those Ottenad had talked to see this as an endorsement of the Gaullist philosophy and an apparent abandonment of the traditional American position.

HAK said that what the President meant to say was that he is in favor of a more autonomous Europe, but he expects it to be in close alliance with the US. He does not mean Europe to be a balancing force between US and the Soviet Union. What he means is that a Europe assuming more responsibilities will be more of an independent factor in world affairs and doesn't require us to bear all the responsibility. He stands behind the alliance.

O: Do you see any difficulty in this concept and his announced intention of revitalizing and strengthening NATO?

H: No, I think it's the condition for it -- letting the Europeans take a more autonomous role is the only way NATO can be revitalized.

O: Then specifically how do we feel about such things as the apparent French suggestion -- if the UK enters the EEC or some version of that, what results is a loose free trade alliance; how would we regard that?

H: That we regard as a matter for Europeans to decide, not for us.

O: But our interest would be substantially affected, I think.

H: On the discriminatory or non-discriminatory aspect, on that we would have a commercial view. But on the political side we will not get into whether Europe should be organized on the Monnet, or some other, plan.

O: But if this kind of thing results, what is our course then? If it is disadvantageous economically or commercially?

H: Then we will try to protect our commercial interests.

O: And what is our feeling if the Gaullist idea of loose alliances of nation-states emerges?

H: You mean between us and the Europeans? We'd have to change that pragmatically -- we cannot organize Europe. We tried it for 15 years and it failed.

O: I haven't suggested we organize it.

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-2-

H: Loose European organization - we'll work with it.

O: Do you see any concern about it from our interest?

H: I think we can live with that.

O: As well as with a politically integrated Western Europe?

H: The fact is we have to live with whatever emerges, but I think we can work with either group.

O: Do you see advantages or disadvantages?

H: I can see advantages or disadvantages in either case. But the major problem is that it be something in which Europeans can act together, and what enables them to do that will be acceptable to us.

O: We've lived with a lot of things, but not many of them have been advantageous to us.

H: I want to make it clear we'd be happy to see a Monnet-type Europe emerge.

O: It seems that there are two different factors involved. I was simply trying to say the interpretation some have placed on the President's remarks is that it's similar to the Gaullist philosophy.

as

H: The integration of Europe has been clearly demonstrated has to result from European initiatives, not from us.

O: The point I was simply trying to get -- what effect, if any, this will have on European integration.

H: As I have said, it is our judgment that the policy that is now being pursued is going to help whatever natural European forces exist and will make enable a genuine European unity to develop. We may be wrong in the judgment...

HAK advised Ottenad that his statements were for background only, and Ottenad accepted that.

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TELCON
Rodman Rockefeller
Mr. Kissinger
3/6/69 11 30

HAK was sorry to have missed Rodman the other day, but it was due
to having the press conference moved up from Thurs to Tues.
HAK invited him to come see him anytime he comes to town.

Rodman said he had made most of his points to Elliot Richardson.

RR said he agreed with what we are doing, with two exceptions, which he outlined to Richardson. He thinks that the Argentines should be allowed to pave the way without our participating. HAK thought we were doing this. RR said he told Richardson: let the Argentines go first. Don't you go too, because you man in Peru is persona non grata. And if he goes too he is going to discredit the Argentines.

H: The atmosphere seems to have improved a bit.

R: Do you know if there is a formal acceptance from Peru of Argentine intervention?

H: They agreed they will have a special emissary from us.

Rodman said he thought there were other people who knew this, but HAK said as long as they don't know it from him...

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TELCON
Secy Rogers
Mr. Kissinger
3-6-69 6:50 PM

R said he wanted to remind K about consultations - k asked whom we have to consult. K said on the British President is planning to send to Wilson via direct line. President has already told de Gaulle - that leaves the Germans. R asked about Italians and NATO. K said he thought they should be told Tuesday. K asked why they have to be consulted - R said K started the consultation program.

R said he would notify Cleveland (Harlan) Monday afternoon that President would make announcement on Tuesday and that announcement would not be inconsistent with present programing on ABMs and we thought as matter of courtesy they should know that. R said he would tell Cleveland to make it seem that it is not a matter on which consultation is necessary. K said with regard to Canada Packard thought Johnnie Foster could explain to them if R agrees - R said this is fine. It was decided that R would talk with the German Amb here. After President's statement is drafted, R will show to Amb on Monday. Re Congress, Bryce Harlow will do most of it, but R is willing to do whatever Bryce wants him to do. K said he would get that word to Harlow.

K said we are working on Presidential statement here which will then be sent to Packard so Defense will get a crack at it.

Defense is doing the same and will send to us. K said he would be happy to send the whole package over to R - R said that would be fine. K added that after the Presidential announcement, Defense will give backgrounder of technical details. R said fine - R thinks it important for him to be phased in not so much for substance as form. K said every draft will be sent to R. K said he would send over statement as soon as it is done, as well as questions and answers.

jm

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TELCON
Gov Rockefeller
Mr. Kissinger
3-6-69 7:15 PM

R said he thinks it's just great the way K is handling things - country is fortunate.

R said he had a call from Galo Plaza who said Ecuador has same problem as Peru on fishing. HAK filled R in on background. R asked if K was aware that they have now applied law on armaments (not sure about this as I could not quite understand what he was saying). K said he did not know this - they were given specific instructions not to apply that idiotic law. R said there is a Russian mission in Ecuador right now - if Soviets get in on equipment for Ecuador it will be a tragedy. K said he would do something in the morning.

Discussed ARA at State - new Assistant Secy, etc. R said Genl Potter had given him two names which he would get to K's secretary in the morning. Potter thinks Asst Secy needs two people - one to cover the Hill and one for the cocktail circuit.

R said Linowitz is available to stay on as Amb - K said he will not be kept. Decision was made today and K does not know whether he has been told yet or not so this is just for R's info. R said his good friend Keating is still interested in possibility of going to Israel as Amb. K said he can't have that and they are playing around with India right now - K said Keating is almost certain to get some Ambassadorship. R said he is very able, very bright, decent guy with a lot of guts. K said we need an Amb for Germany; he might mention him for that and see what the reaction is.

Discussed R's trips. K said he would like to make one suggestion and asked why R was going to all the big countries first. K thinks everything else after is apt to be an anti-climax. R said he did it merely for geographic reasons and thought K had a good point. R asked K's opinion about taking his brother David on one of the trips. K said he would take the temperature here.

jm

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TELCON
Secretary Rogers
Mr. Kissinger
3/7/69 9:50 a.m.

HAK said the President wanted him to bring two things to Rogers': attention: (1) The President is getting quite attracted to the idea of Lodge as Ambassador to the OAS -- Pres didn't say it with any impatience, but he just wanted to be sure the Secy understood that Pres. was thinking about it -- HAK will take soundings and be back in touch. (2) President raised question of Ambassador to Italy-- Tasca (Morocco) looks good to him.

Rogers noted that things in VNam have quieted down. HAK's assessment is that it is a prelude to private talks on their part.

##

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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger
Secy Packard
3-7-69 10:05 AM

K said President is going to Key Biscayne this evening and
wondered if K and P could come down on Monday morning.
P said he would be pleased to. K said President would like
K and P to talk about VN strategy from here on in.

K said unless something else happens today we are turning that
thing off.

K said he would be over at 2:00 today

jm

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TELCON

Mr. Kissinger
Scotty Reston

3-7-69 11:00 AM

Discussed trip - R complimented K on it.

K said he was calling re suggestion R had made the last time they saw one another to effect that R might be willing to permit K to comment on editorials on major foreign policy issues. K has talked to the President about this and he would be delighted to let K do this. K said he did not want to get involved in little x issues but if something important comes up, if we could have a hearing it would be in both our interests. R said that is right K should not hesitate if he sees something wrong or if he sees something that is subject to correction. K asked how this would work. R said if K is saying he is available whenever they are trying to make up their minds about something and are puzzled, if K is available on phone they will call and take advantage of it. Also, there is no reason why K should not initiate call to them whenever he wishes. K said with respect to the former, he is available and the President has authorized it. K said he will not fool them - he may not always x_kx always tell them everything but he will do nothing to mislead them. K said if he does feel the Times is going off base on something, he will be in touch. K said he personally has a preference for dealing with R but, of course, could not prescribe with whom he should deal. R agreed that K should not be talking to ten different people' and said he thought it best if they start off dealing personally.

K said East/West relations is one subject which he would like to discuss and does not want to do over the phone. R and K agreed to lunch in K's office at 12:30 on Thursday, March 12.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

TELCOM

Secy Rogers
Mr. Kissinger

3-7-69

12:30 PM

K said he had three things - first he had meeting with Joe Sisco and thought what State has is really first-rate. K said he really thinks this is the way to proceed. Secondly, bilateral talks should be here rather than New York. K also mentioned that the President was very please with Gerard Smith's testimony yesterday.

The third thing K wanted to bring up is Glen Olds, who he understands is being considered for a UN post. K said the man is a fool - a nice fool. K said this is his view and not a White House view. R said the White House is the one pushing on this. K said Olds has a fifth-class mind; no judgment. K said he could give R ten names of others who feel the same way if R needs help on this. K reiterated that this is not the President's view and he is doing this on a personal basis.

jm

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TELCON

Secy Rogers

Mr. Kissinger

3-7-69 4:35 PM

R asked if we are still on the track for Tuesday. K said not 100 per cent - it may now be Wednesday. K said we are working on paper now which is still in typewriter - he will send it over when finished.
R said Harlan Cleveland will be notified by telegram, which he will clear with K.

R said he had had nice talk with Lin owitz and R thinks maybe John Lodge would be desirable for the OAS job. L held two jobs and R thinks they can be split up.

K said he thought R should just announce Myers thing from State.
K said he would let President get out of city first and then he will call him and tell him R is going to do this. K said in general Asst Secretaries should think of themselves as Secretary's men and President should not start announcing these appointments. R agreed - same some of the press had mentioned this to him in connection with Samuels' announcement.

K asked when he was going to get Vaky - R said it should not be very long now

jm

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TELCON

Mr. Kissinger
Joe Sisco

3-7-69 5:15 PM

K asked whether Pakistan was in S's area - that is just what he told the President. President wants to get Ayub Khan over here and wondered if it would create problems now that he has indicated that he is going to step down. S said this would be interpreted as an American step to bolster Ayub Khan and be regarded as intervention in Pakistani affairs. K asked whether S could drop him a personal note on this and not send it through the whole Department. S said he would do so.

jm

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TELCON
Admiral Moorer

Mr. Kissinger

3-7-69

5:30 PM

K said he had talked with the President and North of the 20th but outside territorial waters is o.k.

M asked on the other thing we have outstanding when does K think we should make a decision on that - K said how about 9:00 tonight. K said he has talked to President about that and he would like it kept on a very short fuse.

K asked if M would look at the situation and see what we can do with minimum loss of lives in shortest period - M said they can give estimate. K asked whether it was possible to sink a ship in the harbor - M said they have looked at several possibilities - even submarines - and it turns out to be difficult because they lighten load and then go on in. M said it could be done with mines. K said right but they would have to keep it going then. M said no problem - we would do it with aircraft.

K asked whether M had opposition arguments in his shop - M said he could give him a brief on what can be done in this area. K asked for it fairly soon.

jm

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TELCON

Secy Rogers

Mr. Kissinger

3-7-69 7:40 PM

K said he was just looking over message that Bundy drafted to Paris. K said he could go along with Kx R's reasoning this afternoon but he has serious questions about what Lodge is supposed to say to the guy whose name he can never pronounce. K said the message in fact says we are agreeing to private talks and read message to R. R said he reads it the other way - that shellings have caused us to have second thoughts. K said to him it means if we stop the shellings we will have private talks. R said he reads it other way.

R said he did not mind if K wanted to change the message.

jm