TELECON

Laird/Kissinger

9:37 a.m. - 9/23/72

K: Hello.

L: Henry.

K: Mel, how are you?

L: Very good. Are you in the office?

K: Yeh.

L: Maybe it'd be better if I talk to you on the secure phone.

K: I don't know what you want to talk about.

L: I want to talk to you about - we are going up there tonight and they didn't get out of there. They're just keeping them around there. We can't delay this thing forever. If we'd give them a few taps up there I think it'd be a good idea.

K: That's all right. That's under the normal restrictions. I mean except for that special one. On the approved list. There aren't any new ones are there?

L: No, no, no new ones Henry. But you see we have that ten mile circle there, we just can't keep that on forever for Christ's sake because and I think we ought to go in there and take a few of those just to let them know that we haven't backed away. That's all.

K: Right. Well, if it doesn't done on a massive scale.

L: It won't be massive.

K: Look it they cancelled the damn thing with that pretext.

L: It won't be massive. I'm so damn mad at this Godly for announcing to the press there in Vientiane that these men are not under orders to return to military jurisdiction. He was supposed to take a hard line recommending they come back to military jurisdiction. I feel like issuing orders to the men.

K: Well Mel, you know my view on that and I don't understand how that could happen.

2

L: Did you see this story?

K: I saw it, yes.

L: I'm so goddamn mad about that I shouldn't get made and upset and I'm not upset with you, you understand that, don't you?

K: No I understand it, but how did it happen?

L: When I talk like this I think you always think I'm upset with you. You know I'm not.

K: No, no I think you just impress your staff every time I come over and give me a little yell.

L: No, that is not true one bit and there's no one to impress in my staff.

K: No, no I'm joking.

L: Seriously you know that.

K: Look, I don't know - you know what our view was, we changed the cable. We think we should take the position that they're under military orders. We should not make such a scene of it that it's on every television screen.

L: But you see if those boys - what we don't want is what Cora Weiss is telling them that they're not under orders to come back. And all Godley does is confirm what Cora's been telling them.

K: But I thought we had approved the script of what the fellow was going to say that boarded the plane.

L: Yeh, that's true we did, but it's been changed now by him.

K: No, we stick to our orders. Let's just. . .

L: Well, maybe I'll call Bill and I'll talk to . . .

K: Well, let's get a cable out to Godley and remind him of what the approved position is.

L: All right, I'll talk to . . .

K: I think we should definitely do that.

L: Well, I'll handle that.

K: OK, Mel.

L: The other thing is, Henry, I think we ought to try to go into those three bridges just below the buffer zone and try to take them out again.

K: I thought we took them out two weeks ago.

L: We only got one and the weather was so bad you see. We only had one-time strike authority there. I'd like to have another one-time strike authority to do it and I think with that weather right now it looks like we'll have a day or two.

K: Let me check with the President. I'll let you know in a couple of hours. I think we can do that.

L: Would you let me know. I'll have Dan Murphy standing by here.

K: Yeh, I'm practically sure we can do that.

L: OK. Fine. How're you getting along in other ways?

K: We're getting along OK.

L: All right.

K: Good, Mel. Thanks for calling but I'd get after Godley on this.

L: I will. I'll take care of that. And say Henry, I doubt if we can really reply to that Cora Weiss cable.

K: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. We don't deal with her.

L: They're sending that message over here for me to prepare a reply.

K: Well, I don't care what is done. We don't clear it here.

L: I would appreciate that because we shouldn't be dealing with Cora Weiss.

4

K: Absolutely. We don't make a treaty with...

L: No, I'd appreciate that if you'd help me on that because I've got a cable over here to prepare an answer and I'd just as soon not...

K: We will under no circumstances approve a reply. I've already talked to the President about this yesterday.

L: OK. Well, I have the cable here for me to draft a reply.

K: Why don't you recommend that that's what you think against it?

L!: I will.

K: And we'll back it.

L: OK. Very good. Thank you, Henry.

K: Bye.

L: Bye.

TELCORN

Robert Sorenson (Newsweek) † Mr. Kissinger

11:24 a.m. 9/23/72

HK: How are you?

RS: I'm fine. We have two quotations that we would like to use in the article, on Mr. Armstrong. The first one comes in his contacts--ah--we say in the 1950's, he started to work with an obscure Harvard instructor and after taking some pains to spruce up the young man's writing style, published his articles in Foreign Affairs. Later, the instructor, Presidential Henry Kissinger, paid Armstrong the highest accolade. Said Henry to him, "You invented me." How does that sound?

HK: That's all right. You didn't get that from me did you?

RS: I assumed that he had. Rick Smith's the author, I'm the researcher.

HK: Yeh, that's all right. If I haven't said it, I'll say it now.

RS: Oh right, fine. I'm sorry I should know, but I thought that he had gotten that from you. The other quote is this one on foreign affairs from you, "Not every article is of equal interest," says Kissinger, "but it's the one magazine in the field you know everyone reads."

HK: Well, why don't you say not every article is of equal interest nor can it be.

RS: Right. Okay. "Not every article is of equal interest nor can it be" says Kissinger, "but it's the one in the field now everyone reads."

HK: Good I appreciate your checking this with me.

RS: Right. Would you like to speak to our author about this right now, because he is right here.

HK: Okay, I see no particular reason.

RS: I'm sorry?

HK: Right.

RS: All right, thank you very much for calling back.

HK: Bye.

BROOKLYN
BANK

AUG 3 2012 9:55

BANKRUPTCY
5/1/04

TELCORN

Mr. Kissinger/Secretary Peterson

9/23/72 12:04 p.m.

HK: Mr. Secretary?

PP: Yes sir

HK: I notice that you don't get on the phone first anymore the way you
used to when you thought I was a power here.

PP: All right Henry. Are you feeling insecure this morning? If I had
know that I'd come over and seen you.

HK: I wanted to ask you and Sally whether you were free for dinner tonight--
Rosalin Russell and her husband are in town.

PP: My god, you're killing me Henry. I think we are tied up. I'm almost
sure we are. Loved to have a drink with you somewhere--where are
you drinking.

HK: Well, she won't be free until about 8:30. And I just learned of it this
morning.

PP: Yeh. Sure. I'm almost sure we've got a dinner date--in fact she was
mentioning it just this morning. So I think we'd better turn it down--
where will you be--we might drop in late.

HK: Rive Cauche.

PP: When are you going to be done, do you know?

HK: Oh, I don't know another man who's there who you'd enjoy meeting
is a friend of mine--you may know him--Vanderbuegal--he was
Deputy Foreign Minister of the Netherlands and President of KLM
now he's just sitting on lots of Boards of Directors--but he's a lot
of fun. Do you know him?

PP: No, I don't--I know a girl around town called Jean Vanderbuegal.

HK: No, Vanderhuval--his name is Vanderbuegal.

PP: Right, Henry I am almost sure I've got a date.

9/23/72 12:04 p.m.

8:00AM

Page 2

HK: Do you want to check with Sally?

PP: I will and what we might do is try to figure out if we could drop in and have a drink with you later.

HK: That would be delightful.

PP: How late do you think you'll be there?

HK: I just have no way of knowing. Where will you be? Do you know?

PP: I think it's in the suburbs--15 or 20 minutes away. Do you think you'll be eating at---

HK: I guess we'll be there until 11:00 or 11:30 anyway. At the Rive Guache I'll let you

PP: All Right. Let's see/know if we can drop in afterwards.

HK: Will you call me?

PP: Yes sir.

HK: Good, bye.

DECLOSERING

90/2/29

Amby B. MARGEA DERE 5/10/79

TELCORN

Roland Evans/Mr. Kissinger

12:31 p.m.

9/23/72

HK: Hello, Roland?

RE: How are you sir?

HK: I notice you are now working my staff the way Joe Alsop does.

RE: Don't be silly, that's all off the record. I don't see anybody in staff.

HK: Baloney.

RE: Who are you talking about--the new Vice Chief of the Staff of the Army.

HK: I sure as hell have never been taken out to Sans Souci with you.

RE: I hear that you're eating there every day now. Even with British journalists--how are you--did you have a good trip.

HK: Yes.

RE: Are we going to see each other soon?

HK: Well, I wanted to ask you--I'm having dinner with you tonight with Rosalin Russell and her husband and Nancy Maginess who's in town, I wondered whether you and Kay wanted to join us?

RE: We'd love to, Reddy--(calling to his wife) I know we'd love to, because we're going down to the country with the ______ and when we get back nothing. What time?

HK: 8:30 at the Rive Gauche.

RE: (Whistling) That's pretty snappy.

HK: I tell you--that's because I got my memoirs sold now.

CLASSIFIED

AUG 22 1972 9:00AM

B. MARGEA DEG.

5/20/72

HK: Roland Evans

Page 2

RE: How many mil?

HK: I don't know yet.

RE: You're getting a lot of bad publicity on Taub and Jimmy Hoffa.

HK: Yeh but some son-of-a-bitch is putting that out.

RE: I know, I know because you told me your version of the story.

HK: There is no other version.

RE: Which I believed. But Taub and Hoffa have been putting out the story that you approved and pushed it. And it was a column--where the hell did I read it.

HK: Well it was an editorial.

RE: The blind columnist from NY

HK: Lesell (sp)

RE: Yeh, he wrote a vicious piece.

HK: Look we have a telephone record of our calling Taub, of our calling Hoffa and of our calling Gibbons saying we were in no way interested. What conceivable interest would we have for --to play with him.

RE: It made no sense at all.

HK: While I'm negotiating in Paris.

RE: The only rational explanation for that--I'll tell you tonight--we might be tapped. There is only one rational explanation and I don't buy it. I accepted your version. I would have written that whole story Henry but it all broke the next day you know. Remember when we talked about it at breakfast?

HK: What broke the next day?

RE: The Hoffa's--the

TELCONE

Ambassador Rabin/Mr. Kissinger

9:47 a.m., September 25, 1972

K: Good morning, Mr. Ambassador, how are you?

R: Fine.

K: Mr. Ambassador, my brother got a call from somebody who claims that he is the assistant to your Prime Minister by the name of Goldstein and requested that he for the sake of Israel see somebody called Bonn Krauten Zion (sp?).

R: Who?

K: Well, somebody, I don't know who the hell -- he gave me the name yesterday and I've now forgotten what the name is. Zion, who's coming from Israel to see him on October 18th.

R: I'm not aware, you know, the fund raising extremities I believe. I think it's in regard to fund raising or something of this kind.

K: Well, they left -- well, they wouldn't tell my brother what it was all about. All they said, it's for the sake of Israel. Now if there's one thing I don't need it's that sort of activity.

R: Well, let me just take the names. I don't who are these people.

K: Well, I know it isn't done at your level and I know if there's anything to it, it's

R: Well, I tell you quite frankly you are the first that tells me something of this kind. I'm not aware.

K: Well, somebody called Goldstein called him who said he was assistant to the Prime Minister.

R: Goldstein?

K: Which doesn't sound right to me to begin with.

R: I don't know who is he.

K: So you know it could be a plot anyway.

TELCONE

- 2 -

Ambassador R'bin/Mr. Kissinger

9:47 a.m., September 25, 1972

R: Well, I think -- has he got let's say the telephone number or how to communicate with this Goldstein? You know, the name is so familiar how can I try to identify even such a person exists.

K: I'll find all of this out.

R: If you can give me some sort of identification, it will be helpful to me and I'll find out and I'll get rid of them.

K: Okay. If you can do that, I'd appreciate it.

R: Oh, no problem.

K: Secondly, if you can get me two tickets to that concert.

R: Yeah, I'll get you.

K: I'll be delighted. Next to your Foreign Minister (laughter). I'm kidding now.

R: He will be there, he will be there.

K: I have no such ambition.

R: On the person of the President I believe it's not advisable. While this is my personal view even though I told you a few weeks ago that it would be, for the simple reason I can't believe that there might be bomb scare, telephone calls, etc.

K: I like you. That's why you want me there.

R: No, because I tend to believe -- I would recommend that you continue regardless of the bomb scare because I have experienced 5 times in the United States in my appearances bomb scare and I said no, continue as usual and nothing happened.

K: Okay.

R: But it will be much more difficult for us to do anything because we will not be in control if he'll be there.

K: Okay.

R: And, you know, it can create just for a time they can create such a havoc in which the President will be involved with all the implications.

telcon

9:47 a.m., September 25, 1972

K: No, you're right. He won't be there, I'll see to it.

R: I saw today a cable written by the Foreign Minister that Rollie Evans told him that he had met you at a dinner and you said that Connally will be the Secretary of State and you would resign and my Foreign Minister is so happy about it.

K: He is happy about it?

R: But I don't know. He wants, you know -- well, I am joking.

K: Total nonsense. Now, Mr. Ambassador, do you believe that I would say anything so stupid to Rowland Evans?

R: Yeah, this is what I was not happy about it because in this cable . . it is a piece of information to the Prime Minister, to everybody. If you would allow me, I would say only to her --

K: Cable to her. Say this is typical Washington gossip and there is nothing to it whatsoever.

R: He really didn't say so, that's all.

K: I didn't say so. You know, very often people say things to me to which I don't reply which they then think I agree with.

R: Fine.

K: You know, I don't know how Rowland Evans got this idea.

R: He said to him -- I read the cable -- the cable went yesterday to Israel.

K: Oh, that fool. That I said it was certain that Connally would be made Secretary of State?

R: Yeah. That there would be dramatic changes . . . . . . . .

K: Believe me, you really should shoot that down. That's total nonsense.

R: Yes. I can read you the cable. You know he remained here -- he appeared yesterday on "Face the Nation."

K: Right.

TELCONE

9:47 a.m., September 25, 1972

R: And he said at the end of the program, he said Novak made a mistake -- he doesn't know if it was Evans or Novak but it was Evans. Evans told the Foreign Minister that he had dinner on Saturday night with Kissinger and Kissinger said that the President is going to bring dramatic changes in the Cabinet composition. Connally is the sole candidate to replace Rogers. If such a change will take place, Dr. Kissinger is going to resign from his job.

K: Total nonsense. Look, let me tell you who was at that dinner so you can judge yourself -- Rosalind Russell, her husband, Kay Graham, Nancy Maginnes and I forgot who else. I think that was all -- and a European friend of mine.

R: Evans was not there?

K: No, Evans was also there. Now do you believe that in such a composition of a combination of Hollywood, Europe, and such that I would say such a thing? Is that even conceivable?

R: You see, but I am sure that Evans said something of this kind.

K: I don't doubt it but Evans was trying to provoke him. Evans thinks that I'm, you know -- Evans understands who has been stopping what. Evans would like to stampede you people into doing things.

R: I know.

K: I mean, it's such a transparent maneuver that I'm amazed that he could fall for it.

R: Oh, but to say he didn't fall. He just sent a cable back home.

K: Well, but he should have given an explanation.

R: Yeah. Well, as a matter of fact, I had the intention even to call you and suggest to be careful but it was none of my business.

K: This happens to be something that wasn't discussed. Evans has been bugging me for years -- for weeks to tell him what I would do. I always take the position that I won't say what I'm going to do after the election because I don't want to give the impression -- you know, I like to keep some . . . .

DECLASSIFIED
Auth: E017958
Date: September 25, 1972
Text: B.

JANE DREY GLADOT

TELCORN

9:47 a.m., September 25, 1972

- 5 -

R: Of course.

K: . . . . certainly there are many reasons why I do it and also to prevent
an all-out attack on me.

R: Exactly. Alright. Well, I believe that otherwise there was a big meeting
with ______ and Secretary of State and everything is fine.

K: Well, if you would correct this with these people, I would appreciate it.

R: Alright.

K: And we will announce that Committee today -- the Anti-Terror Committee.

R: The Anti-Terror. And on that business about the person that called your
brother, please let me know.

K: And I'm pushing the other matter too.

R: Alright.

K: Just let me do it in my crooked way.

R: Fine. And in the meantime I will leave you the pressure [about the
limitations at least in the Senate that] didn't go bad for your point of view.

K: Right. And if you can keep in so far as you can control it attacks from
being made on the President.

R: Well, we are trying our best but --

K: I know you can't keep McGovern. One other thing as long as I have you
on the phone, the President is very nervous about this meeting with the
Jewish leaders tomorrow. I don't know whether you have any influence on
them to keep them from harassing him too much.

R: I don't believe there will be any harassment there. They'll ask questions.
I think what they'll try -- two of them talked to me and they would like
practically to get the . . . . . . If he could start with a few words rather
than to let them set a tone, if I may advise.

K: Right.

CLASSIFIED

30122958

AUG 30 1972 11:01 AM

TELCON

9:47 a.m., September 25, 1972

- 6 -

R: You know, if you start by questions and answers --

K: No, he'll make a few remarks.

R: It's better to start by a few remarks. Now what is the problem with .................... three of them shown to me. They say now -- well, no one can claim to ask for more. The question that bothers them is, "Will it be the same afterwards?" And they would like to find out and this is going to be the extent as I understood one main concern. They would like to hear as much as possible the same line, the same let's say basic position -- continuation of support of Israel, militarily, economically and no ............ settlement will be continued.

K: Right.

R: If he can start by saying something along this lines, I think it will defuse completely the atmosphere.

K: Good. You should see some of the letters I get from Jewish people; not to be believed.

R: Well, I know; I know. But on the other hand, forgive me for saying so, the Committee for the Re-Election doesn't know how to use mistakes of the other side. I give you an example, again don't quote me.

K: No, for God's sakes.

R: This week, Gary Hart appeared here in George Washington University and he said that Israel should be condemned for each action against Lebanon. No one has used it.

K: Well, where did that appear?

R: He talked -- it appeared, I believe, even in the student paper.

K: Okay. Very helpful.

R: You know, it's not as I said to you but rather .................... in the regulations.

K: Yeah, I'll pass that on.

TELCONE

9:47 a.m., September 25, 1972

R: But there is no real -- they don't follow, the people there, on the mistakes and the statements of the other one for a third point. I think McGovern in his making with the President constant (?) said too many good words about the UN which they didn't like. Again, no one plays it.

K: Unfortunately, I have a 10 o'clock. . . Nice to talk to you.

R: All the best.

K: Bye.

wgh

DECLASSIFIED

Authority Foi28r
By CNAR Date 6/2/67

telcon

Ambassador Dobrynin/General Haig

12:25 p.m., September 25, 1972

H: Mr. Ambassador

D: Oh, yes, General, how do you do?

H: Just fine. Our friend is enroute, you know.

D: I understand. Well, I was going to ask you -- maybe you know of this question really. I will seek your advice. You see there was a suggestion that maybe by the beginning of next week we will have an exchange of ratification and a document about this ABM Treaty.

H: Yes.

D: And this is as it looks so nevertheless looks all right. I mean, that you will tell me by the end of this week and we hope to do the same.

H: Yes.

D: But this is not a question of ours really of what to do about a temporary agreement, you know, this ABM and temporary agreement.

H: Yes.

D: According to Article 8 of this temporary agreement each country should notify the other country that they consider that this country accepts the temporary agreement.

H: Yes.

D: So we really don't know and we would like advice really and they will do the same -- who is going to sign this letter so to speak, to whom addressed this letter may be going that United States or the Soviet Union or acceptance of this temporary agreement.

H: I understand. Let me get our best thinking on it and share it with you and I am sure this is just a technical matter but --

D: I understand really. If you will just raise this little matter of missile or anyone, it will be all right with me. I simply try to do this because we discuss this between our governments overseas but this really was not mentioned and now it's not all right really.

H: Yes.

["DECLASSIFIED", "Authority Foi-là-in\nBy CNAR Date 5.1.57", "TELCOM\nAmbassador Dobrynin/General Haig", "12:25 p.m., September 25, 1972", "D: We just don't know. If you could do it, it would be fine. If you couldn't, you will just tell me through my headquarters, Mr. Smith or just a matter of technical thing. But at the same time you will also be involved . . . . . . . . . . . .

telcon

12:25 p. m., September 25, 1972

H: Mr. Ambassador

H: Yes.

H: Yes.

H: Yes.

H: Yes.

H: Yes.

["TELCONE", "Ambassador Dobrynin/General Haig", "12:25 p.m., September 25, 1972", "D: We just don't know. If you could do it, it would be fine. If you couldn't, you will just tell me through my headquarters, Mr. Smith or just a matter of technical thing. But at the same time you will also be involved . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

TELCORN

Secretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger

9/27/72 5:14 p.m.

HK: Mel, how are you?

ML: Very good, Say I'm out here at this Airlie Meeting that I have
you know with my people and I just got an urgent call from Senator
Stennis and I want you to know how I handled it because he is going
to say something about this. On this Lavelle hearing, Senator
Hughes has demanded that Al Haig appear to talk about his conver-
sations which he had in Vietnam.

HK: I don't think he has ever met Lavalle.

ML: Ah, when he was over there at briefings and when Abrams was
present in certain messages that he communicated. Now there
is no problem with this, but I just told--they wanted him up there
this afternoon and I just told them that was impossible.

HK: That's right.

ML: And that we would make him available in executive session of the
committee sometime next week but we could not do it now.

HK: Well, he's on his way to Vietnam anyway.

ML: Yeh, I understand that and but I thought you should know that because--

HK: Haig cannot testify about messages he sent back to the President

ML: I don't think he needs to do that at all, I wouldn't--he should just say
that but what they are going to do is use Haig's appearance on the
basis that he is appearing there on his confirmation--you see how they
are getting around that. They are going to announce that Al is there to
appear there on his promotion to four stars and we got to let him appea
because that's the way they'll announce it but I didn't want you taken
by surprise on that Henry and--when--Al doesn't get back does he till
Tuesday?

HK: Wednesday. We better not make him available until the week after nex

ML: I think that--let's--

HK: I just don't see how he can get ready. I need him on Wed. and Thursda

DEC 27 1972

85221003

BY: A. M. Dic 5/10/72

I*

Page 2

ML: I don't understand why they let Hughes--Senator Hughes has done this--he's insisted upon a hearing--

HK: Yeh, but I won't let him go on Wed. and Thurs.

ML: What'll they do then is hold up everybody's--and that's all right if they hold up for a while, that won't hurt us.

HK: He can't--he's coming back Wednesday noon--he's got to get ready for a hearing and I have to get his report--I need for Wednesday afternoon...

ML: Is that all right if I say that to Stennis?

HK: Absolutely. I'll call him myself.

ML: What they are doing is using the fact that we have Al's nomination up there and Stennis didn't really want to do this but he says he can't deny this of another Senator.

HK: Yeh, but he should get Haig for the following week.

ML: And what I will do is just tell him that it is not possible for him to come--okay I'll get after him right now.

HK: Good thank you Mel.

ML: Henry, is it *impossible* important that the Chairman and I be there for that signing tomorrow?

HK: No.

ML: They're putting the problem that I got--we are all out here trying to do a little business.

HK: No, it's not important.
Good Mel.

ML: Very good, Bye.

TELCONE

Dwight Chapin/Mr. Kissinger

9/27/72 6:00 p.m.

DC: Henry, I'm sorry to bother you, but I'm trying to untangle this
Jewish event at Kennedy Center on Sunday night.

HK: Now it looks as if McGovern is coming there.

DC: Right, he is.

HK: And that's so then I think the President should consider going there.

DC: Okay, the idea was that he shouldn't go if McGovern wasn't because
then it would look too much like we were playing to them.

HK: Right and because Rabin had told me privately that they won't all
that eager to have him. Under those conditions.

DC: Okay. Very good. You think he should consider it?

HK: Yeh.

DC: Okay, thank you.

BROA/ARIA DEC 5/14/74
Airbit 3012958

TELCONE

9:25 p.m., September 27, 1972

K: Mr. Ambassador.

R: How are you?

K: Okay. I just got back and there's total confusion again about the President's
going to the Kennedy Center. My understanding was that you didn't want
him.

R: No.

K: Well, I'm putting it crudely -- that you recommended against it. Our
people in my absence checked with Idan, Idan tells them they are eager
for him.

R: No, he didn't say --

K: It makes me look like an idiot.

R: Now what do you recommend?

K: I don't give a damn. I didn't want to get into it to begin with. I don't
schedule the President but my understanding was that you had said that
all things considered, it would be better if he didn't come so I told the
scheduling office he shouldn't come. So then some wise guy said let's
check with the Israelis and you tell him exactly the opposite.

R: Not me. I didn't tell Idan what I talked to you. Garment talked to Idan
and he said to Idan we understand everybody says that the Israelis don't
want the President to be there. And as a matter of fact I didn't want him
to come this way and everybody would say that we didn't want him to be
there.

K: No, no; I was handling it in a quiet way.

R: Yeah, but the rumor and the fact that Garment came to Idan with some
sort of even a complaint. I thought that we were talking among ourselves.

K: Yeah. Okay, fine. Well, I'm out of it whatever has happened now I just
want you to understand.

R: I'm sure I said it to you and I would never repeat because I believed we
are talking among ourselves and you would see him alone or with some
people that would not spread the rumors all over the White House and Israel.

CLASSIFIED
Approved 3/12/85
Date 5/1/85

TELCOM

9:25 p. m., September 27, 1972

- 2 -

K: Well, I had to tell it to one person, which is the appointments secretary.

R: Yeah, and he said to Garment and Garment communicated to Idan.

K: Okay. Well, whatever happens now is out of my hands.

R: But I do think this is not as important an issue or do you think it is?

K: It's no important issue at all. I couldn't care less. You know, personally I wanted to do whatever you wanted to have done.

R: I thought I'm quite sure as I said to you --

K: The only concern I have is that it makes me look like an idiot. But that's not a major thing.

R: No, I tell you. I told it to you --

K: The people to whom it makes me look like an idiot don't matter so it makes no difference.

R: I'm really sorry because I said it to you and I said it on my own because I believe I am the person to decide about it. I didn't took into what I said to you anybody else and there was some misunderstanding. What do you want me to do?

K: No, nothing.

R: I can talk to Garment about it.

K: No, no; it's not worth it.

R: Do you want me?

K: Save your prestige for important matters.

R: No, I don't want because as a matter of fact you did exactly what I suggested.

K: Well, I don't care what Garment thinks and nothing I really -- of the important things I do depends on Garment so let's just forget it. I don't think you should call. It's not important enough for you to get involved again.

TELCORN

9:25 p.m., September 27, 1972

R: I believe that I will talk to Garment tomorrow. It is my problem.

K: Well, it's up to you but don't do it for my sake because this is the sort of thing that's bound to happen and you could not when you get asked by a middle level fellow say you do not want the President to be there.

R: I didn't expect Garment to ask and I didn't want Idan to know everything that I talk to you about.

K: No, no; you were absolutely right. I understand the situation.

R: I didn't want to say --

K: No, no; you were 100% right and don't worry about it.

R: When he came today and told me I said to him it's a pity because I advised -- I did not recommend -- I'll put it this way, I did not recommend it that he would come.

K: Well, don't worry about it, I fully understand.

R: Really I feel bad as a matter of fact.

K: Look, if we have no worse problems, we're going to have -- I just wanted to check on what had happened.

R: No, no; this is exactly -- I said it to you, I didn't want to tell anybody.

K: No, forget it.

R: I'll tell you what I was afraid as a matter of fact -- Since the Foreign Minister is coming, I thought if I tell it to anybody that I suggested it everybody would take it as my interference with a meeting between the President and the Foreign Minister.

K: I fully understand and I do not think you should tell Garment because it --

R: This is why I won't.

K: You tell Garment, he'll tell Fisher and then it's going to be a big affair. Just forget it. This is such a minuscule event in my affairs and in your affairs that next week at this time no one will remember.

9-27-72 9:22AM

TELCORN

9:25 p.m., September 27, 1972

- 4 -

R: This way my consideration is not to tell anybody because I didn't expect that it would come to Garment and to anybody else.

K: Don't call Garment. It isn't worth it. It really isn't worth it. If anything for me depended on it, I'd ask you to do it but make a phone call some other time on something that matters.

R: Alright. By the way, you talked to me about the telephone call to your brother. I found it and don't worry about it. They will not call him anymore.

K: Right. What was it about?

R: U. J.

K: Oh, okay.

R: Fund raising.

K: Okay, fine.

R: And now, the third point, since you are talking to me now. You remember once we had almost misunderstanding about a question of tranquility and ceasefire. I am under instructions to see you as soon as possible in regard to something that might cook.

K: Okay, let's do it tomorrow or the day after. Can it wait until Friday?

R: It can wait till Friday because I advised not to do anything until I talk to you.

K: Okay.

R: But I hope it will not be beyond Friday.

K: It will not be beyond Friday.

R: And they'll wait till we talk.

K: Good. We will talk no later than Friday.

R: That's good.

K: Good. Bye.

R: Alright. Bye.

DECLASSIFIED
Author: EOL7958
Date: 9/27/79
B

BANA DREI G/19/01

TELCON

Bob Haldeman/Mr. Kissinger

10:35 p. m., September 27, 1972

H: Henry, welcome home.

K: Thank you.

H: Henry, the President is at a reception and then is going to -- I went down and caught him and told him you were trying to reach him. He's going to come up, change, get ready to give his speech and go back down.

K: Well, there's no need for him to talk to me. I just want him to be able to say he's talked to me.

H: Yeah; well, he wants to too. What he said to tell you is that he'll either call you, whichever you prefer, call you when he gets up from the dinner which won't be till 10:00 or a little after, which will be 1:00 your time, or he'll call you first thing in the morning when he gets up which will be probably 9:30 or 10:00 your time there. What he wanted to do though was to put out -- he will have Ron say that you have called and given him a full report.

K: That he should do in any event.

H: Right.

K: I have nothing -- He's got that brief report that Haig sent out.

H: Right.

K: He and I have to sit down on Friday because we have -- you know, just for your information -- they have made a very major concession which now forces us into some very tough decisions.

he

H: Okay. That will be set to do. Now you want to go home and go to bed don't you?

K: Yeah, I want to go to bed now.

H: Okay. Why don't you forget about the call tonight and he'll call you as soon as he gets up in the morning.

K: And I really can't tell him a hell of a lot more because I think it's too hot to tell him on the phone.

H: Alright, I'll tell him that.

TELCOM

Bob Haldeman/Mr. Kissinger

10:35 p.m., September 27, 1972

- 2 -

K: But, you know, it confronts us -- they are no longer unreasonable but it would force us to do some pretty difficult things.

H: Right, right.

K: But we know now how to settle it if we can bring ourselves to do it.

H: If you want to do it. Okay. Well, we probably ought not to talk about it.

K: Certainly not.

H: I'll tell him that you're going on to bed. I'll have Ron put out that you called and have given him a full report.

K: Good.

H: And of course you will be conferring as soon as he gets back.

K: Right. And that we really must do. And we are sending Haig to Saigon Friday night.

H: Does he know that?

K: We talked about it Monday but it now has become essential.

H: Okay. On Friday night?

K: Yeah.

H: He leaves Friday night?

K: Yes, and he's got to because I'm leaving again the following Friday.

H: Okay.

K: They want a three-day meeting next time.

H: Yeah, I saw that in your memo. Okay.

K: Okay.

H: You feel okay?

K: I feel fine.

TELCONE

Bob Haldeman/Mr. Kissinger

- 3 -

H: I will catch him on the fly here and then have him call you in the morning.

K: Okay. How's everything going?

H: Pretty good. We've got a huge demonstration outside the hotel tonight. You know, peace now types.

K: Does that hurt?

H: I don't think so. It's a very big one. It's the first time we've had a big demonstration in a long time. But it was set up by the McGovern people and we know that cause they were phoning out of their headquarters so that's been put out so I don't think it hurts us

K: I would have thought it would -- it is more apt to help.

H: I think you're right. I think you're right. Well, we've had a great setup. We've had great enthusiasm. Everybody is all cranked up.

K: Oh, terrific.

H: Still looking very good.

K: He does, does he?

H: Yep.

K: Marvelous.

H: So we've just got to keep it that way.

K: One more month to go.

H: Right.

K: Okay, Bob, all the best.

H: Glad to have you back. We'll see you tomorrow night.

TELCOM
Ron Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger

10:45 pm, Sept. 27, 1972

K: Ron?

Z: Hello Henry.

K: How are you?

Z: Okay, I want to bring you up to date, Henry, on what I said--

K: Yes, you did very well.

Z: You see no problems?

K: Well, you said not to jump overboard.

Z: Yes, but I wanted to check with you because I've been down in the Press Room, and so forth, and what I said, first of all, you know, I'm with Caldeman in San Francisco and I was asked whether or not we requested TV time, and I said absolutely not.

K: That's right.

Z: He said, well what about the report, you know, the sea thing. And I said, look I'm not going to talk about substance.

K: You must absolutely refuse any comment on substance.

Z: Right, after talking to Hal I believe we are now to the point of look, Elman, my posture on this is that we have not requested TV time and I would say there's simply no substance to that particular report.

K: That's right. Now what is it they say about True--that he's resigning?

Z: Well about True stepping down--no one out here really knows what we are talking about. You know what I mean, it's in the rumor stage.

K: No one can know, because who the hell would know that he's leaving.

Z: They don't even know what the report is about, you see, it's one of those moves that we call back to the office, so I just reverted the thing and said to the guys--cool it, and I would say there's no

TELCONE

Ron Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger

10:45 pm, Sept. 27, 1972

Z (contd) substance to that particular report. And I put that out, you know, crossed that, and said we never talked about substance and I'm not going to start to now.

K: That's right, you don't even know the Vietnamese.

Z: But then I ended up doing was cooling this thing down substantially and I assume that's what you want.

K: That's what I want.

Z: Okay.

K: All right, but I---

Z: ________________ created by your dinner tomorrow night and all that stuff anyway.

K: What I remember is a---

Z: Am I hard enough?

K: You are fine, you're perfect.

Z: In other words, you don't want me to move off this posture, harden it up or softer?

K: No, you are exactly right. It's exactly right from my point of view, and just don't let yourself get drawn in substance.

Z: Absolutely not.

K: Excellent.

Z: How are you doing?

K: I'm a little tired but otherwise we are coming along.

about

Z: I've got about 4,000 kids right outside my window talking to our workers.

K: All I can tell you, Ron, is our great planners ought to have sense enough not to put you into a hotel which has a plaza in front of it. You might avoid demonstrations.

BOSCHSIEFEN

85/222

BOSCHSDIEFEN 5/1/70

TELCONE

Ron Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger

10:45 pm, Sept. 27, 1972

Z: It occurred to me.

K: There are plenty of hotels in Los Angeles that do not have plazas.

Z: But, Henry, you don't understand, we want them to demonstrate.

K: ( Laughter) Okay, is it wild, is it nasty.

Z: No, not too bad.

K: I don't think that would hurt us.

Z: No, no, I don't either.

K: Okay.

Z: I'm going to announce in a little while that you conferred with
the President tonight by telephone.

K: Exactly.

Z: And, Hal's has already told you that I said the President learned
about the fact that you were extending your meetings on board Air
Force 1.

K: Right.

Z: And I also xxx heard them ask if you would have to check. And I
said no, we are always prepared to return if in Henry's judgment
we should, and you, of course, he (Kissinger) has the authority
to do that on his own, you know--

K: That's it exactly.

Z:q Okay.

K: Thank you.

Z: Okay, Henry.

K: Good luck.

Z: See you.

K: Bye.

TELCON
Stewart Alsop/Mr. Kissinger
10:05 a.m., September 28, 1972

A: Welcome home.

K: Thank you. You're spurring me on. I figure if I get this thing settled against you --

A: (laughter) I've got almost the same kind of commitment Tom Wicker has, to prove myself right.

K: That's right.

A: But I hope to God I was wrong.

K: Stewart, I wanted to check one thing with you. We're having lunch today aren't we?

A: I hope so.

K: Right. Well, a friend of mine has come into town and I was wondering whether we could shift to breakfast on Saturday, but it doesn't have to be.

A: Well, sure, except I think we'll be going out to the country on Friday. Perhaps you can come there too.

K: Well, that may be possible.

A: I'm writing a piece which would involve you.

K: Well, if you just give me another position.

A: (laughter)

K: Let me call you back in 15 minutes. Let me see whether I can see her some other time. This is entirely frivolous.

A: Yeah, sure. . . understand why you'd like to see your friend.

K: But since you have Miss Maginnes' interests at heart, you probably won't be graceful about that.

A: It's not Miss Maginnes -- Oh, well, I have to hear that but still -- you know, call me back either way, Henry. I'd love to see you but if your frivolous interests override me, why let them override.

K: (laughter) The way you put that -- let me call you back in 15 minutes. Are you home or where can I find you?

A: Alright, fine. I'm at home.

K: Good.

TELCORN

Mrs. Stewart Alsop and Stewart Alsop/Mr. Kissinger

10:14 a.m., September 28, 1972

Mrs. S: Social life is becoming so complicated, but what I wanted was--
is there any chance of you coming out to dinner on Saturday, or
for the afternoon?

K: Let me talk to Nancy about it, I'm not sure, I doubt it because she's just coming down on Saturday, probably in the afternoon, and frankly I don't think she's all that crazy about Holbrook.

Mrs. S.: Oh, well, I can see, yeah.

K: I like him, but you know, she'd get into a horrible Donn brook andx with him, and you know--

Mrs. S.: (Laughter) I tried to call her, but she wasn't in, you know.

K: She doesn't have my disciplined nature.

Mrs. S: (Laughter) Well, I'll warn her, because I want--

K: She has my fondness for Alsops.

Mrs. S: I'm glad she has that, anyhow. If not, another time, but can I check with her. I'm going to call her anyhow. Stew's right here:

K: If we don't come this weekend, we'll come the next time she comes down.

Mrs. S: Good.

K: I know I never get invited without her, you know that is sort of an eerie feeling.

Mrs. S. What?

K: That I never get invited without her makes me think I'm---

Mrs. S. I invite you, and I don't invite anybody else but you (laughter).

K: You need a White House card to get Nancy out there, for sure.

Mrs. S. That could be true, but I would like to ask you on your own, you know.

K: Okay.

Mrs. S.: Okay, just a minute.

TELCONE

Stewart Alsop/Mr. Kissinger

A: Yes, Henry.

K: I haven't found that other party yet, but if we can--if I do, can we do it at 5:30 today for the drink.

A: That will be fine.

K: Is it bearable to your pride if I leave it open while I answer another phone call?

A: Oh, yes. My pride goeth before the fall.

K: On the other hand, would I dare to offer you a drink without getting too lousy comments from you.

A: You would, indeed. Depending on whether your privileged companion is available, or not, I'll be there at 5:30 unless I hear different from you.

K: Okay, and if he isn't available, I will be free for lunch if you-- because of all this problem with the President, because I had a dinner engagement and he cancelled it on me, insisting on having dinner with me tommight.

A: Well, I can well understand the President might like to have a chat with you, too.

K: Yes, I think it's needed.

A: Okay, I'll be in at 5:30 unless I hear different. Are you coming on Saturday.

K: I think our mutual friend, Nancy, has a somewhat less decipling nature than I, and I think she would get into a horrible quarrel with Holbrook.

A: Oh, would she (laughter)

K: That may be amusing, too. But I think it would not be the happiest evening for her.

A: Naturally, Holbrook is not a kind of--a dove.

K: Holbrook can be a savage.

A: All right, well, I'll see you at 5:30 unless I hear different.

K: Good, wonderful, bye.

CLASSIFIED

TELCOM

Jerry Schecter/Mr. Kissinger

11:00 am, September 28, 1972

K: Hello.

S: Hi, Henry, how are you.

K: Okay, Jerry.

S: Well, I'm glad you want to report to me before you get to the
President so we can get everything straightened out here.
How did it go?

K: Well, the trouble is, they caved too early, I had it planned
for October 15.

S: I see.

K: And, I don't know how to spend the time now and October 15th
n;ow.

S: I see. Well, I'll tell you, you know they called me from New
York this morning and asked me whether we should change the
cover this week. They said they got one ready to go in Chicago,
so--

K: Having me on it?

S: (Laughter) ____________ Duc Tho (more laughter).

K: Don't you understand, I got him---you know, it's an embarrassing
thing when he comes in and wants to sign my documents and I
haven't got the final forms.

S: So, I don't know, I told them I thought there were still some problems.

K: Did you.

S: Yeah, and I thought I had better to check with you to see (laughter) that I've been reading it all right.

K: You are gonna look bad.

S: Well, it won't be the first time.

TELCOM

Jerry Schecter/Mr. Kissinger

11:00 am, September 28, 1982

K: Well, what can I do for you?

S: Can you give me any guidance on --

K: Am I not seeing you guys tomorrow?

S: Yes, you are.

K: No, I can't give you any guidance, but I've been trying to have
you be thoughtful, and we are not playing pinochle when we meet
for two days.

S: Would it be wrong to conclude that this thing is wrapped up, or
is it still in progress.

K: It would be wrong to conclude it was wrapped up.

S: Yeah

K: Did I to conclude that we are talking seriously? But if you don't
describe it to me.

S: Yeah. Shall we say anything at all about the kind of time table that's involved? Up to now you've been saying that this hasn't been--it's not tagged to the election.

K: It is absolutely not tagged to the election because based on your own
article this week as far as they are concerned, the election is over.

S: Yeah.

K: It is absolutely not tagged to the election.

S: Uh huh.

K: But--we just got a good combination of circumstances now and
we like good combinations along with them; and the combination
of circumstances is such that it happened to come to a head x in
the period after July. But any analysis of them would make clear
that could not have been their choice.

S: Yeah.

K: Nor could it have been our choice, I mean there was no time
when we would have been better off making a tolerable agreement

9501002063

BANKRUPTCY

5/10/82

TELCONE
SChecter/Mr. Kissinger

11:00 am, Sept. 28, 1972

K contd) than not making it.

S: You are going to be under a lot of pressure I would think in the
next few days to say what all this means.

K: But, I won't say it.

S: Uh Huh, yeah. How should we read your statement Monday.
Is that simply propaganda or is that--can I take some-- look
for that as some indication where they--

K: I think you can safely assume that neither side has revealed
the content of these negotiations.

S: Right, but they are talking about a guarantee you see, for
neither side dominating the political life in S. Vietnam. It
seems to the that indicates some give on their side.

K: Well, I don't want to comment on that yet, you know they don't
do these things lightly.

S: Yeah, right. Well, you know, I'm not trying to pressure you--

K: Look, it would really be--when this whole thing is over, Jerry,
you've been one of the most understanding of the journalists.
I'll really talk to you about it, and give you some of the history
of what the evolution was.

S: Well, I'll be grateful.

K: And, then you will really see why it wouldn't be helpful for me
to go into any details.

S: Good. Okay, thanks, Henry, look forward to seeing you tomorrow.

K: Right, I've got a lot of three syllable words I want to try out on
a knowledgeable group.

S: Okay, thanks, bye.

K: Bye.

TELCONE
Senator Javits/Mr. Kissinger
1:02 p.m., September 28, 1972

J: Henry, have a good trip.

K: Yes.

J: I called you because I see some signs the Administration may be getting in the same crack on this Jackson Amendment that affects the trade deal that it did on the Jackson Amendment on offensive arms. My information is that a man named John Lehman is talking with Jackson's man -- a man named Perle, whom I told you about is absolutely inflexible -- and telling him the White House is going to be passive about this, nothing is going to happen anyhow until next year and of course that isn't the idea of the exercise at all. One, the amendment is intended as a signal to the Russians; and two, you've got an amendment that could come up on this Foreign Aid Bill this afternoon.

K: Right.

J: Because it was carried in the House. The so-called Vanik Amendment. All that I would hope is that somebody note what Mr. Lehman's doing -- if he is acting with the authority of the President, there is nothing further to say about it.

K: I will get on top of that immediately. As you know, I've been away.

J: I know you have.

K: Now, we hope very much, Jack, that you will vote against the Vanik Amendment.

J: Well, let us see what the White House does to us --

K: You tell me what we have to do.

J: I think the President has to lay this out as a matter of national policy. I don't think that the indirect statement which is contained in the papers of a report that he said when he met with George/Joyce (?) Leders (sp?) is not very convincing to Senators up here.

K: Well, we'll see whether we can get a statement out. But we can't do it now when he's on an airplane.

J: Well, I realize that.

K: Your vote is this afternoon.

TELCON
Senator Javits/Mr. Kissinger
1:02 p.m., September 28, 1972

- 2 -

J: This thing is on later this afternoon. I think that whoever handles these things at the White House ought to talk with the Leadership here.

K: I think it would be a disaster for the United States and for the Jewish people if this were passed.

J: Well, Henry, I know how you feel and you know I've given you some idea of how I feel.

K: Right.

J: The only difficulty is that I face the tide in this particular matter.

K: Right.

J: Which is alright, I have no restiveness about it. But the constructive things that can be done is (1) to discuss this with the leadership up here in order to see, you know, what this situation is this afternoon and (2) to find out what's going on between Mr. Lehman and Jackson.

K: Right, okay.

J: You know what signals are being passed there.

K: What should we discuss with the leadership?

J: Well, the Leadership, you ought to tell them your disquiet about this Vanik Amendment and your feeling that you hope very much that it can be held off or tabled.

K: Good, I will do that.

J: Good.

K: Thank you.

J: Alright, Henry.

wgh

TELCORN

Frank Mankiewicz/Mr. Kissinger

4:20 p.m., September 28, 1972

K: Hello.

M: Henry.

K: Frank, only 6 more weeks of this nightmare and we can talk to each other again.

M: That's right, that's right. I have two things. First of all, we're going to release the story tomorrow that you are the only person that we are going to hold over in the Administration. We do want to have you.

K: (laughter)

M: We like your work. I have a very serious problem. I'm aware of course of all the fund-raising that you've been doing.

K: I have done none.

M: And a fellow called us from Fort Worth -- I haven't quite checked him out yet but he says that he will contribute $28 million to the campaign provided that we will pay for three half-hours on each of the networks in Texas. I'm deadly serious -- this is his proposal. During which time he will explain on this half-hour exactly how it was that you kidnapped him and held him prisoner for 60 days.

K: Jesus Christ!

M: What I want you to do is to make a clean breast of it and we can make $28 million and that will mean that your campaign will have $50 million and ours will then have $29 million.

K: I thought that we had kept that part of it secret.

M: Well, it's out. Now, was it 60 days or was it a shorter period? Where did you hold him prisoner?

K: In my backyard.

M: In your back yard. You just let him graze. I see, that's why your grass is so poor there.

K: That's right.

M: But I thought you would like to know that -- it's a kind of a twist on the other story --

TELCON

4:20 p.m., September 28, 1972

- 2 -

K: (laughter)

M: It's the first time as far as I know anyone has alleged that Henry Kissinger been in a conspiracy to kidnap them.

K: I stop at nothing to get money.

M: Well, but it turns out you see that he's a Democrat.

K: (laughter)

M: You should have figured it the other way.

K: Well, listen, considering it the way our staff operates --

M: Yes, it could have been done . . .

K: . . . we do it with Democrats.

M: Yeah, I must say you gave us a bit of a start yesterday with WOR.

K: You know, I --

M: It sounded like a pretty good settlement to me.

K: You know my views, they've always been the same.

M: I know.

K: We'll make a very serious effort and we're not clearing it -- we're talking as friends here -- I'm supposing you're not calling me.

M: No, no; I'm really -- I just wanted to lighten your day to tell you about the fellow --

K: That's what I'm assuming.

M: . . kidnapped him for the $28 million.

K: We're not playing any games with it. WOOR won't be the first to know.

M: Yeah. No, I didn't think so. I didn't think so but I thought -- you know, the succession of denials put you in a little trouble for a couple of hours -- non-denials actually.

TELCONE

4:20 p.m., September 28, 1972

K: I was in the air; I didn't know what was going on.

M: Well, I think, Henry, any story that breaks when you are airborne and the President is going to float first obviously until one of you lands. That was the problem but it sure . . . racing around for a while.

K: I'll tell you, Frank, one of my regrets about these last months is that I haven't seen enough of you.

M: Well, as you said we've only got 6 weeks and one way or the other we can spend some time together.

K: However it comes out.

M: Yeah.

K: We're going to see each other.

M: Yeah, well, that's very reassuring.

K: (laughter)

M: I'll tell the fellow we'll have to wait for the $28 million.

K: Right. You know if you really put me up against it, I may have to testify.

M: Yeah. Well, it would be the first time wouldn't it?

K: (laughter) Yeah, but I've never played for such high stakes before.

M: He's ready to send the money to a Michigan banker and bring it back up.

K: (laughter)

M: We'll see you.

K: Okay. Nice to talk to you.

M: Goodbye.

wgh

TELCORN

Rowland Evans/Mr. Kissinger

4:36 pm., September 28, 1972

K: Hello.

E: Henry?

K: Yes, sir.

E: How are you, sir?

K: Okay.

E: I had a very strange call from one of your top assistants the other day.

K: Well, the reason was this, I was told that you Idan that I had told you that I was going to resign and this was going all over the God damned diplomatic circuit.

E: That is an absolute--- it's utter shit.

Connally
K: I had told you that Connally was certain to be appointed Secretary of State and, before that thing---

E: Aw, that just---I had with three other guys for not more that two minutes, or say five minutes with: I'd an after the Session Agents job. And, he asked who we were going to have in the State Department. Well we all threw in our two bits, and then he wanted to know what happened to you and we speculated on it for maybe 30 seconds.

K: Well, that's all right. But--

E: God Almighty!!

K: That's how it got to me, but because---

E: You went all over the UN saying that you --

K: That's right. You had said to him that Connally was certain to get appointed, and that I was certain to resign and you can imagine when they nearly declared a National holiday in Foggy Bottom.

E: Well, I might have said this, Henry, I might have said that I had been told by one person and nobody knows what's goin to happen after January 1973, but I'd been told by one person that Connally had a very good shot at it. WhichI had told you many times.

DECLASSIFIED
Author: E0172958
Date: 9/1/91

B:

SERA DAE 9/1/91

TELCOM

Rowland Evans/Mr. Kissinger

4:36 pm., September 28, 1972

K: Yeah, but you hadn't been told by me.

E: Well, I didn't say you.

K: Yeah.

E: Oh, God, no. I know you said that, and then the question was well what happens in that event to Dr. Kissinger's job, and everybody, really this is a fun and games conversation, this wasn't a serious conversation. A Connally-Kissinger clash would be inevitable. I mean there was no--

K: Rowland, you are a good friend of mine and all I wanted to prevent was to avoid your writing.

E: I don't understand Iban doing that to you. That is really irresponsible.

K: I mean, and since I was on an airplane.

E: Well, anyway, Al got me on the phone and --

K: Well, th;is wasn't intended as a criticism of you.

E: I'm not even remotely considering anything like that at this stage. You must be premature to speculate on that. Henry, I wonder if, could you possibly be up for an early breakfast.

K: When, not tomorrow.. How about Saturday.

E: Saturday is fine.

K: Okay.

E: Can we do it?

K: KYes.

E: What time?

K: 8:30.

E: You want to come to our Club?

K: No, I'll see you here.

Page 3

TELCORN

Rowland Evans/Mr. Kissinger

4:36 pm, September 28, 1982

E: In the White House.

K: Sure.

E: Can I ask you one other question, Henry?

K: Yeah.

E: This speculation has really become <u>more than axiology</u> almost unbearable, on Vietnam--

K: Nobody knows a God damned thing. Just remember that. Nobody. Except Winston Lord who isn't talking.

E: But he could even tell me this, but I'm not writing about this now. But is anything serious cooking. I can't see you making these trips for fun, Henry.

K: Well, Rowland, that's the only sensible conclusion. And, it's even less likely that they would be meeting me for fun.

E: Were you impressed with Peter Harnett (sp) quotes, the editor of Nan Dam, said that feel Nixon was going to be re-elected and the war has to go on for another four years. Did you read that?

K: Yeah, but I'd expect they'd have to say that, wouldn't you?

E: How about the Phan Van Dong interview that Arnat had- same thing.

K: It fits perfectly into what's going on, but also obviously the meeting.

E: Well, I'll tell you, I have never seen so much anticipation.

K: Well, that's also probably wrong, but you know, two weeks ago, everyone wrote that I had said there had been no progress. I hadn't said anything of the kind. Now everyone is saying a cease fire is agreed to.

E. Yeah.

K: That's also not right.

E: Well, okay, Henry, then I'll see you at 8:30, Saturday morning, and don't worry about that other thing.

K: Good, you are a good friend.

E: All right, bye.

TELCOM

David Packard/Mr. Kissinger

5:18 p.m., September 28, 1972

P: Hello, Henry, David Packard, how are you?

K: Dave, how are you?

P: Good, fine, how are you?

K: Okay.

P: I've been reading about you... I have just two quick matters I wanted to take up. The World Affairs Council here in northern California has been pushing me to find out whether there is any possibility you would speak to a meeting here sometime in October. And this could -- should be a non-political thing and something that would probably be appropriate and helpful indirectly in the campaign. Is there any chance you could or would be able to do that?

K: Let me take it up with Haldeman. Would you like me to do it?

P: I think it would be a good thing, Henry. It's the sort of thing that could be done here in the San Francisco area. There's a good deal of interest in the specific theater and so forth and you should make a talk which would be strictly non-political.

K: Yeah, you know that's the sort of forum that I could do. In principle, yes.

P: They would like to have this -- well, it's the 25th anniversary celebration. I think you'd have a good turnout -- I don't know how large -- probably a couple thousand people and they can select a space that would be at your convenience.

K: Okay. Let me talk to Haldeman and I'll be back to you by early next week.

P: Alright, that will be just fine.

K: I'm assuming you recommend it.

P: I recommend it. I think this would be very helpful to the campaign and it could be done on a strictly non-political basis as far as you're concerned.

K: Okay.

65CLASSIFIED

30122958

Approved By: J. M. D. B. H. M. D. E. 5/10/72

TELCON

David Packard/Mr. Kissinger

5:18 p.m., September 28, 1972

P: You know, you should just tell them whatever you want to tell them and it will be just great.

K: Right.

P: The other matter has to do with this issue between General Electric and this French company on this . . . . . . . . . . . . (SNECA) Was that brought to your attention?

K: Yes. I have talked to Pompidou about it and if this goddamn company will just get off my back, we may settle it. But the stupidity of American businessmen -- if you forgive me -- is exhaustible.

P: Look, I'll take a message back as far as you want me to, Henry.

K: Just tell them to shutup. I understand the problem. We will take it up again after the first of January. I have avoided a totally negative decision. Pompidou understands.

P: Alright. Now there's just one issue that I -- I talked to Johnny Foster about this and I do not believe there's a security problem on this ________. They may miss on this one but I think that can be handled.

K: Look, our intention is to be cooperative but our intention is also not to get the bureaucracy all stirred up before November. Therefore, that constant running amok of General Electric is going to crystallize things. We have given a negative answer which I have explained to Pompidou and with which he's content.

P: Alright, Henry, I'll do the best I can to tell my friends at G.E. to keep out of it and there's nothing further they can do --

K: No, really -- tell the President of G.E. to get in touch with me in December.

P: Alright.

K: Then is the time for us to do something. That may preclude it until then and the French are going to do nothing until the new year. Pompidou fully understands it. But I don't want this in every trade journal.

P: Yeah, I understand. Alright. Congratulations on the great job you're doing . . . .

DEC 12 1972

850103

B&J BARRI DECE 5/10/72

I*

K: Dave, I miss you very much. And one reason for coming out there would be to see you.

P: Well, that's very nice. But there's another reason and that's to get the President re-elected.

K: Right. Well, that would be the other reason.

P: That's not an unimportant reason as far as I'm concerned.

K: Not at all.

P: He was great here yesterday and had a good reception and I think we're going to win all right but this is something that would be very helpful and would be appreciated by a lot of people.

K: I'll almost certainly do it.

P: Fine. Thank you, Henry. If there's anything I can do for you, just pick up the phone.

K: Well, I know that and I'll call you about this.

P: Alright, fine.

K: Bye, Dave.

wgh

TELCON

Secretary Rogers/Kissinger

5:55 p.m. - 9/28/72

K: Hello.

R: Hello.

K: Bill, I wanted to give you a very brief comment. I will talk to you more about it when I see you about my meeting. Well, they are spelling out more and more details of this ________ government but of course it isn't in any even roughly acceptable form and more details on the guarantee side. I was sondering if you would permit me tomorrow to talk to Alex to get some technical backup on the latter point.

R: Sure.

K: That's fine. I know you are seeing him tonight.

R: Oh, is he going to be there?

K: I don't know what it is. He said he is going to go up to New York; to something the Secretary's attending.

R: I see. Look, let me read something on Vietnam to you. I am speaking before the Council of Foreign Relations tonight.

K: Oh, you are talking at that big dinner?

R: There is so little you can say that hasn't been said. Something on Vietnam. I tried not to. You are going to talk to Douglas-Home tomorrow?

K: The President is going to see him.

R: He said something...

K: He is trying to get my impressions on China.

R: (Reading) Let me say a word about Vietnam. Our resolve to end the war has been backed by the President's proposals for a ceasefire, internationally supervised elections, exchange of prisoners of war, leaving the political question to be worked out by the Vietnamese themselves. I can assure you we are pursuing seriously with that .... we are negotiating seriously.

K: The only thing that may cause trouble - they might think we are pulling off the January 25th. We are giving them two ways of doing it through internationally supervised elections or through ceasefire.

97155-2056

8502103

BANKRUPTCY COURT
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTH DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA

2

R: There is a lot of this other. This is exactly what I said at the
United Nations.

K: I would leave it in. It does no damage.

R: (Reading) I can assure you we are pursuing seriously the
negotiations to that end.

K: It is very good to say that it is serious.

R: People around town, cab drivers, have asked my people is the
President doing this just for a gag or is he serious about it. I will
speak to Eliot tonight. Have you decided on another meeting?

K: Probably the weekend after this.

R: At least you are affecting the market.

K: We have nothing to lose from it.

R: No, that's right. I will see you tomorrow.

<table><tr><td>061555-0500</td></tr><tr><td>12/15/55</td></tr><tr><td>BY: ANNA DEIC</td></tr><tr><td>85b2103</td></tr></table>