DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By NARA, Dale S/27

Telecon
Secretary Romney
11:15 a.m. 10/10/69

K said that he was sorry that it had taken him so long to return R's calls, and R said that he understood--K is very busy. R calling to say that with the great stampede of the 15th, it is getting more and more difficult to get the support the President should have. He wonders if it would be helpful to have someone stating the situation as it is, someone who can speak for the President and what he is trying to do. K said who should do that?.
R said, well, he might do it here at the HUD meeting (all the agencies are having meetings). R wonders if he can make a contribution in this respect.

K said, if they have a meeting, I think you ought to do it--I think this is a very generous offer for you to make. Not too many people are volunteering. R said that if he does it, he wants to do it well, wants to be sure he is in tune with the administration. He feels that unless we get continuing support for the administration's situation 'the ballgame is over'. He says this against the background of his personal conviction that we never should be there in the first place, but that, as long as we are, the President is moving in the right direction. He knows that we can't pull out without throwing in the sponge. He has a meeting in Miami, and would be away for it on the 15th, but he'll stay if this is important. Kissinger said he would check with the President. He thinks he knows what the President's answer will be, but he'll check to make certain. I think it is very generous, K said, I appreciate it.

R said if the President wants this, they should inform the news media. Secretary R said he would like to work out carefully what will be said. He wanted to know if he could be of any real value, especially against the background of his earlier efforts, and the fact that Acheson is giving him greater status. In response to query from K, R said Acheson had been interviewed on TV about two weeks ago and he indicated he had been given misinformation by military and other authorities. Acheson was asked if he agreed with Governor Romney and what he said, and Acheson replied 'yes, that what Romney had said was correct.' Romney said, however, they cut him down on the statement about brainwashing--but what has happened since confirms what he (R) had said. It gives a basis to deal with some of these people on October 15th.

K said he would raise this with the President; it is a very generous offer by Romney; and he thinks we can handle it.

jp/lds

By NARA, Date 5/27

TELECON

The Attorney General
Mr. Kissinger

October 10, 1969 -- 12:25 p.m.

K said he had two subjects. (1) The JCS plan, the DOD comment and the memorandum for the President will be over to the Atty Gen this afternoon. K said the remark M made yesterday started a train of thought. The JCS is trying to establish the principle of permanent operation so that if anything goes wrong, they can say they didn't have free-run; i. e., they are trying to get it into an attrition framework. K said Laird uses that to show how stupid they are and to demonstrate our bureaucratic problem. However, we have to handle this delicately. They feel over there they are being pushed with political directives, which to them is a crime. They want to handle it as a technical problem.

(2) K said the Washington Post had a description of a party he allegedly attended last night. K said he was invited, and did stop by, but when he realized they were all Democrats, he left after 3 minutes. The Post is writing it up as if he had been seeing all of them, and he wanted M to know the circumstances. M said K was really polite if he did not ask the host ahead of time who was going to attend. K said maybe he had better start this.

The Attorney General said Governor Rockefeller had said a gallop poll is coming out on Sunday about the Senators' Resolution (which Rockefeller says is the Goodell Resolution). Rockefeller said the figures are: 56% in favor; 32% against; and 12% undecided. M said he thought Harry Dent might have access to these polls. He also said it might make a difference how the question is asked. K said he had just gotten a letter from a British friend, who is opposed to the war, but who included a thought for his possible use: "The Vietnam War which is contrary to some people's thoughts is, however, not a television serial that can be switched off because the audience has become bored with it."

lds

By CCO NARA, Date 5/27

Telecon
Secretary Laird
12:40 10/10/69

Laird started out by saying that the matter of promoting a general to four-star was supposed to be cleared by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Who is being promoted to four stars, asked K. L said Hershey, and I have not been before them (Joint Chiefs). K said he was delighted to hear that somebody in the White House other than himself has made a mistake. K said he had not known this news until this very moment. L said he had not been told, but thought he could talk to the Joint Chiefs about it and straighten it out. Laird said he thought they were going to make him a special manpower consultant [Hershey].

L finally said, that's not really what I was calling you about. On the exercises that are to be held on the 13th or 14th. K added, 'and running through the week. Laird said one thing--all that we approved (by the President? he saw them didn't he?). We won't be contacting out allies on this? K said that's what we want. L said they will get the word, but will they pick it up, asked K. Yes said L, but little military significance to this. It will not cost us much money. K asked if we would have to bring in the allies, and L answered in regard to Canada, yes, right away. K said, then we better not do it. Laird asked if K thought we should execute this, if that is what the President would want. K said I know that's what he wants.

jp

By

NARA, Dale

TELECON

Secretary Laird
Mr. Kissinger

October 10, 1969 -- 12:40 p.m.

Secretary Laird said he was concerned about a couple of things:
(1) the policy of making four-star generals. General Hershey is being made one this afternoon. L said everyone has honored the policy agreed to with the Senate Committee and the Joint Chief's. L said he had been told this was being given consideration, but he had no idea it had gone this far. K said he was not aware either until L told him and agreed it shouldn't have happened. Hershey is apparently being brought on at the WH as a special manpower consultant.

(2) Concerning the exercises that are to be laid on for October 13 and 14 and running through that week, he understood one thing: all of these had been approved by the President last night. K said yes, the President went over them last night. L said there is no DefCon business involved in this -- we will not be contacting our allies (Canada or NATO) on any of these? K said that is what we want. We were worried about getting the allies involved. All of these activities will get some sort of signal -- they will get the word but there will be no DefCon. There is no military significance to this, and it won't cost much money, per Laird.

In response to query from K, Laird explained that we have to bring in Canada right away on DefCons and then bring in the NATO allies. These items on this list are not contingent in any way on the other operation that is going to be discussed on Saturday. K affirmed that it has nothing to do with that. He told L to go ahead and execute this -- he has a signed paper from the President that he wants it. L said he had just wanted to make sure it wasn't in connection with our discussion tomorrow. K repeated that it is independent. He then told L that his paper is really a powerful case -- he wanted to assure him privately that the thinking here is much more on L's line. K said it is, frankly, an attempt to prevent our having to face a thing like tomorrow.

lds

By NARA, Dalo

5/27

Telecon
Governor Rockefeller
1:45 p. m. 10/10/69

R. started out saying that they'd been talking things over, and he wanted K to know that they had his interests at heart. Said he had called Joe Mitchell and passed some thoughts along on Mexico and using a helicopter to burn the poppy fields. Said it might work with us instead of against us. Mitchell asked if R had suggested that Gaol Plaza get into it. R said no, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea. Said that he wanted K to know the figures on the poll--guessed he already knew. K said yes, he knew, the radicals were destroying the presidency. R said about the Haitian thing--the guy ought to be recalled. K said the guy (minister of finance) is a crook from all reports, buy he is perfectly willing to listen to him. R said he didn't like being in the ambiguous position he's in. He's into this thing--he's a private citizen, but he's also an emissary. R said he wants to report it to his boss. K said that's the best way to handle it. R said somebody ought to find out if this is true. K said he was having a CIA study done--that it ought to be in next week. K said he thought R's suggestion was very ingeneous. R said when the guy falls, if he goes, we've got a problem. We need somebody we have a contact. We can't afford to be in a position that we depont on him. R said he'd establish a contact. R said he would be in Washington soon, and they could talk. K said it would be best to mention Vaky. Romney said, yes, perfect, keep K's name out of it.

R said we've got plenty of problems in the party. Ellie P is a politically astute woman--a good person to talk with, very savy about what goes on--is a liberal, not a conservative.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12950, Sect. 3.6

*

By NARA, Dale 5/27

Telecon
Tom Braden
5:10pm 10/10/69

B asked how K was--how he was really. K said "How am I really?" Well the next time I go into the White House it will not be at the take end of the Vietnam war. (K then explained that he will not get involved with another war like Vietnam for the next administration he gets into.)

B said K, or somebody is doing a terrific PR job.--B explained that the casualties are down, Hershey taken care of, Humphrey's speech. K said, of course we can't do anything about the casualties. B asked K what he was doing on Vietnam peace day. K said he would be in his office. B said Frank and he were going to Georgetown Day School, and asked if K wanted to join. K said let me think about it. Frank came on the line, and said, G'tn. Day School had found the world's last hawk, a parent there named Max C. K said he was glad they had found a living hawk. B said again, somebody's doing a damn good job. K said anybody who knows me, knows it can't be me.

Back to talking about program at K G'tn. Day School--no need for K to talk, just little kids. Might be fun for K. K asked, what do you want-- to show these kids a sample of human depravity? Then said he'd see-- said if no one in the administration gives a talk, he couldn't. Asked what time. Ans: 10 o'clock. K said he couldn't do it at that hour, but thanks for asking him.

By

NARA, Dale

Telecon
Ben Read

7:15 pm 10/10/69

R wanted to talk about how the day had gone for Humphrey. Said he was taking one hell of a lot of heat. K said he had had no idea he would do this--said it was very generous of him. R said he's been taking it on the chin--everybody saying he sold out. When he had finished with the program at Smithsonian Inst., the press went back to his remarks. He said he'd seen you, that you are a friend. He said he had given his own views. Was asked if he was for a cease-fire--they kept drawing out his personal views. Roberts and P ______ were the only national reporters there--doesn't think it will detract from the President. K said he's a big man, and he (K) appreciates what he did. K said the irresponsibility of the liberals is heart-breaking. What do they want? Do they think I don't want peace? R said, you've become the phantom of war.

By NARA, Date 5/27

Telecon
The President
7:30 p.m. 10/10/69

K said he had just talked with Ben Reed. Reed said that Humphrey is taking a terrible time about his statement today. Said it's as bad as during the campaign. P said "You mean they're getting after Humphrey?" And then the P asked if H was sorry. K said no, he was asked about it at a later press conference, and his answers shouldn't cause any trouble. P said "they made him trim?" K said yes. K said the response was bad from the press and the left wingers. P said, well, the H move is very important, very helpful to us. K asked the P if he had asked H to speak. President said no, he's a decent human being. Says he flops around, but he's a decent man. P said, of course, this drives the press right up the wall; the tide is good; the democratic leadership is not against us.

K said he had just seen some Newsweek people and had a feeling that they were a little bit shaken. Said he felt they thought the peace demonstration had gotten out of hand. P asked in what way. K pointed out that all the people getting into the scene were forcing, or trying to force, a government of confrontation. He said all of the American ideas aren't going to mean a damn if confrontation becomes our national style of politics. He said Newsweek is usually against us, and it's possible that these men were just baiting him, and warned the P not to expect the Newsweek piece to be friendly. The P said no, but we don't care, we've just got to try

K said he is drafting a statement. The P said he was seeing Lodge at 3:00 Monday and he thinks he should make a statement after seeing Lodge. K said it should hit the papers Tuesday; confuse people. K said that Newsweek people said it was a very good day for us, Hershey and Humphrey. P said he hated to throw the old man out just as a sop to the students, but that Humphrey, of course, was a good move.

The P said, by 72 the war is going to be over, and he is going to be the man who ended it. If we do it--put it right to the bastards--after all we're in the they're not. There's a lot of rough stuff coming up but the thing to do is to sail along. K said what the P must is keep giving them a dignified manner. (P said oh of course.) K said no asking for sympathy. P said 'God no''. K says for him to point out that he was elected and because of this he has responsibility for the country.

P said it isn't just this issue, but the next one and the next one that comes up. What about Korea? What about Berlin? K said he is convinced that if we yield on this one we're just inviting the Soviets into a confrontation.

By

NARA, Dalo

son
President
p.m. 10/10/69

said it's like Acheson's statement about where is the line of demarcation/
said yes, but it's different because here there is no line of demarcation
yield. P said we won't yield. P said he doesn't want the enemy to
ask that we are affected by them [the protesters]. He had said he would
be affected by such things and he's not going to be. K said it is sure
they were just feeling us out, that we must show that there will be no
icy by confrontation.

asked again about Humphrey; asked if Humphrey's man had said it was
so than before. P said those sons of bitches were playing a partisan
ime, that they were now out to destroy Humphrey. K said people were
lying that the P is like Johnson; said they just want the P to be another
Johnson. P said but Johnson was so inept with his hardness, that we are
not going to fool around.

said the November 3 speech should be a factual listing of what the
resident has done. K said that was very impressive. P said he's not
going to restate all that on television. He said we would put that out, but
he'll be speaking to two audiences: home and abroad. He said for the
home audience he simply wanted a simple, uncomplicated and very brief
statement, not a long restatement of what he's done. K said, but make
the public understand that you offered to send emissaries. The P said,
and we received their emissaries. K said the P had made two overtures
before the inauguration--that would be very impressive to the people.
P said he would mention that for the first time he revealed what had
before been diplomatically classified material; that he wanted the people
to know. P said to K that he wanted him to get all the Rogers and Lodge
contacts so that we could put that in. K pointed out that Lodge, Habib,
and Rodgers had had many meetings and he (K) had also--that that should
be mentioned, and then the P should list all the things he did. K can list
secret contacts.

P said in the Joint Chiefs meeting on Saturday [Oct. 11] he was going to
let Wheeler give a report; said he was going to force them to talk about
Vietnam. He wants the discussion to be about that. K said Wheeler should
give about 10 minutes on Vietnam, and the P said then he would ask them
what to do about Vietnam. P said they would probably give him the
standard answers about the 42-month plan, and he would say that was no good.
K said they should believe that P is serious about the November 1 plan;
if not, they won't give him any planning cooperation. Must be careful about

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By _NARA, Dale_ 5/27

elecon
the President
13 p. m. 10/10/69
3

tling them it's inadequate; they're terribly sensitive.

P said he thinks thay really by November we ought to be in as good shape as possible. P said yes, it's got to be ready. P said whether the United States will be able to see this thing through at the present level is a question, but if they escalate, we have got to respond. K said if we can keep casualties down over the next four weeks it will be good. But if they go up dramatically, we have an excuse for what we are going planning to do.

P said Laird put out the word--that he had changed the orders--thank God that he did. I told him that I changed them when I talked to Abrams--I am not going to let Rogers get credit for what we thought up. We changed the orders. K said yes, the P did it on the plane to Saigon.

P said the best news all day is the Cambodian strike. He said he is convinced--he knows K disagrees with him on this--but he is convinced that this is more important than anything else. P said bombing in the North was wrong. Here we are hitting them and hurting them and they don't get anything out of it. K said that they had found a new area, just north. Same rate of explosion, something like 70 secondaries. P said "suppose it blows in Cambodia." P said, we could just say we were just hitting areas on the boarder. K said we can stop it at any time. P said should we; K said I don't think we should. P said it indicates a certain toughness to them. K said we might stop it as we get closer to the first [of November]. P said why not stand down everything. K said you get into the same flap that you did last time. P said this time just stand down and don't say why. K said I think the best thing on the third is just to give a straight account. It's a damned impressive record.

By CCO NARA, Date 5/27

Telecon

Joseph Alsop

10/11/69 1:42 p.m.

Alsop said there were three things he wanted to take up with K. First that he had just sold an article to Reader's Digest; they are going to send it to __________ and A thinks it will please him. There is to be a sequel to it for next month's issue, and he wants to talk with K about the sequel. He wants to talk about other things too.

Tommy Thompson and his beatnik daughter are coming to supper at his house Sunday (10/12/69 - tomorrow) and A wanted to know if K wanted to come too. K said he couldn't do it. Said either he would be in New York or at a dinner at the White House. How late would A's supper be? Not late.

A said he would like to see K--program him for the end of some afternoon
next week. K said he would love to see A--could he (HAK) call A Monday?
K said he always loves to see A for selfish reasons.

A said Mack __________ is coming down to Washington. Mary and he want to give him a jolly dinner--which will not include most of his colleagues. Dinner will be on November 7; A is wondering if they could get K to come. K said he would love to come; A said, mark that down in your book. K said 'I'll even be on time.'

JLP

By NARA, Dale 3/27

Telecon
Secretary Romney
10/11/69 2:28 p.m.

K said he had talked to the President about R's suggestion (see Telecon, 10/10/69). Said he (the P) didn't want anybody to do anything official on Oct. 15; just as soon leave that day to the protestors. R said that the things that have happened since he made that offer have been much more significant. K said that he tremendously appreciated R's offer, and thanked him very much. K said he hoped to see R soon, and best to R's wife [Leonore?]. R said, they (the Rs) would love to have K out any time he has a free night. Knows he is very busy, but any time he is free and would like to drop in and have dinner, please do so.

JLP

UNCLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By NARA, Dato

Telecon

Haldeman

10/11/69 2:45

Talking about the President's speech--when he wanted the draft by. Haldeman thought Wednesday, K thought Thursday, P finally agreed to Friday. K said the P said not to listen to H--he always gets too excited. H said they were not going to put out an advance text. K said that was fine with him, as long as he (K) knows what the P is going to say. The P must not improvise it; he must have it memorized. H assumed K that the P would know it. H said we are going to announce it, and then go through all the steps he has taken. K said we (K and P) had decided this morning not to do that. He is not going to go on TV at all on Monday. K said he will say that on Nov. 3 he will speak on Vietnam. H said that's the most enigmatic thing he can do--both agreed that that is a good thing. Once that's done, the President should publicly concern himself with anything but Vietnam. K said that was fine with him. Haldeman said the P was thinking about putting Rogers on TV--H said God no. H said the P will get on anything else, pollution, dope, pornography. K said make Rogers shut up.

H said the P should have a press conference the following week. (The week after the week of the 15th.) Every question he is asked regarding Vietnam, he should say he is making a speech on that subject on Nov. 3. K said good; mentioned the recommendation from Ehrlichman to write to that kid. H said he had a letter drafted--read the letter to K [very quickly.] K liked it very much, suggested that they add to the last part that saying 'X' There is no problem to which I have given more of my time and thought. For some 9 months we have worked every day for a just end to a conflict which has been building for more that 8 years." [K originally said 8 mos., but then H pointed out that next week it would be 9 months--both agreed on 9 months.] K said he's like to stick the other administration with it, meaning the blame for the conflict starting in the first place. K said he thought it was a very good letter, very manly. Who wrote drafted it? H said Ray Price; H said it would be out Monday. K said why not Sunday. H said they may be able to put it out Sunday, get it in the Sunday papers. H said we shouldn't have anything in the papers on Wednesday. Have the letter in the papers Sunday, then an announcement Monday about the speech.

JLP

By Cc NARA, Date 5/27

Telecon
Ray Price

10/11/69

3:25

K started by saying that he thought Price's letter was very good. The only suggestion he would make is that the paragraph that begins "The chief weakness of the planned demonstrations . . . "; K doesn't think we should mention the demonstrations. K says that this kind of thing is destroying the democratic process. We should say what are the demonstrations trying to achieve. Say they are encouraging a politics of confrontation in which the physically loudest and strongest prevail. P said, you don't think that comes over? K said not enough. K said it was a damn good letter; told P that he too had been asked to draft a letter, but that his letter was too soft--said under pressure, P was tougher.

JLP

By NARA, Date 5/27

TELCONE
Professor John Roche
Mr. Kissinger
3:30 p.m., 10-11-69

R said Henry I just wanted to call to cheer you up. R said he had spent
hours this morning attempting to deal with a couple of our liberal Senators.
The situation is absolutely incredible. It's snowballing along at a great
clip and I hope you can hold the line. R said someone should engage in a
little counter offensive. R said it seemed to him that the U.S. is not about
to sell out the South Vietnamese State to make the U.S. kids happy.

K said they have no program. They are doing everything the critics said
about Johnson. These people just want to bug out. R said I spent a half
hour syruping up Muskie, saying at Bates College they have to make the
difference between peace position and pro-Hanoi position. My fearless
candidate Hubert of last year, I think, will collapse. He is on a Com-
mission that I am on. R said all I can say is that McPherson and I talked
him out but he actually said to us, look, I want your help in writing an
article. He said Gil Harrison has asked him to write an article, "Vietnam
a Year Earlier". R said he talked to Humphrey about it and when he
finished, Humphrey said Harry (McPherson), what do you think? Harry
said John has understated it.

K said to me a shocking thing is the collapse of the American establishment.
R said did you see my column on Fred Harrison? K said no, I did not see
it. K said I think they are dead. They cannot win the '72 elections. R
said do you have one second, I want you to hear this article (Roche read
the article).

R said two nights in Washington and I want to go off to a nut house. But I
wanted to give you a call. K said I am on the way out of town. K said
will you let me know when you come down again? R said he would. R
said I understand you have now become Director of the Bureau of the
Budget, that you now have to go over the Defense budget. And in that
case I figured you would not have time to talk to anyone. R said, Henry,
just don't let your friends panic out there. R said he thought it was a
great mistake to get rid of Hershey at this time. Harry and Joe and I
tried to do it for months. R said, alright sir, keep the faith, it was good
to talk to you.

mlh

By NARA, Date 5/2

Telecon
Secretary Laird
8:45 a.m. 10/13/69

Laird called to get instructions as to what he should say in his morning press conference due to the TV appearance of Sec. Rogers on Sunday and his statements regarding Vietnam. Laird was upset because of what Rogers said as was K. They both talked to him before he went on and Rogers made it look as though Vietnamization was not the prime objective. K said Laird and he both agreed that the only way to end the war would be to do it Laird's way. Laird thought he better not show that there is a difference in opinion, and thought he might raise some questions at his press conference. K thought he should. K said if you give them credit it brings pressure on us, then we are not carrying a program, they are driving us to it. Also it makes us look like fools if they clobber us. The basic policy is Vietnamization and one of the consequences is its reduction in casualties.

SUKHE
Laird brought up B-52s. K said that worries him since they had agreed to keep the search capability and not announce it. Laird agreed and added that it is at the same level as if it was in September. Laird didn't know how it got out but thought maybe it was someone who had access to the message traffic in Saigon. He would find out and call K back.

K said that Laird shouldn't reverse himself in the press conference since he is the one who has the basic policy.

By NARA, Date 5/27

Telecon
Marshall Green
12:00 noon 10/13/69

The Citizens Committee for Peace and Freedom in Vietnam want to issue a report. Green thought it might help if they could do it this week. It might be helpful. They do need some advance warning since people have to come from out of town. Green talked to Ziegler and Z said that he and Dwight would work on this. Green was giving this to K as a point of information. K said thank you.

Second point, Green was meeting with P. M. Tunku and wanted to know what transpired between the President and the P. M. K said there wasn't really alotted. He didn't ask for aid. He talked about his own domestic problems and said he would keep the state of emergency for a year or maybe two. Green asked if he brought up consultations. K said the President didn't use any line, he just listened sympathetically. Tunku made a plea for us to stay in Vietnam. Tunku said it would be an end to all of Asia not just Southeast Asia. Tunku would be willing to make a public statement. Green asked why he hadn't since it would help us. K said apparently he thinks we are eager to bug out and suggested that maybe Green might want to discuss this with him. Green said he would.

K added that it was a very general conversation and that if he had known Green was seeing him he would have called. He(K) had planned on writing this up.

By NARA, Date 5/27

Telecon
Secretary Laird
12:05 p. m. 10/13/69

K said he talked to the President about Laird's press conference and said he would send over some answers next to questions that may be helpful to the situation. Laird said we have to try to give the American people the impression that we are not just responding to them, that we have a program of our own.-- its just not waiting around for them to do something. K said if we do it the other way, they will start screaming that we should do something. Laird said we want to do something in December but we won't be forced into it. Rogers called Laird and asked what he thought of his appearance. Laird also told Rogers that we have to sell the idea that we have a program. Rogers said the President called him and thought he was terrific and Rogers didn't feel as though the President was dissatisfied with anything he said. Laird and Rogers had a little friendly exchange about this came plan from the standpoint of convincing the American people that we have plans to end the war. Laird felt strongly about the fact that Rogers, Laird and K should get together so these points can be made with Rogers. K mentioned articles in Newsweek about more State Dept. leaks. Laird said when they sent over the comments on Laird's speech last week, that really made him mad.

K indicated that Ziegler would be saying today that we have a plan, we are following the plan that Sec. Laird spoke of last week.

On the SAC exercise, K wanted to know if Laird had told Rogers. Laird had not but decided that he would have Col. Pursley call Ted Elliot and tell him that we are having a routine SAC exercise and that it has been discussed with the President.

Laird mentioned that he had been invited to be anchor man on Johnny Carson's show on the 15th. This is something that Herb Klein evidently had worked out. K was upset since he knew the President wanted that day kept strictly for the other side but he would check with Haldeman. Laird said he really didn't want to do it and K didn't feel that he should.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By [signature] NARA, Date 5/27

Telecon
Senator Symington
2:20 p.m. 10/13/69

K said he had talked to the President. K would like to see Symington before the hearing s begin to discuss some of his (Ps) thoughts. Sy agreed and added that he had agreed to hold publication of Philippines hearings until after the elections. He had agreed with Richardson to do this provided he (R) would let S say it was held up by the State Dept, otherwise he will be accused of helping Marcos.

x K said S had been very helpful and hoped S felt K and the President had tried to cooperate with him. S said what he has tried to present to both K and the two Secretaries is that, in effect, these things were done long before the President came on the scene. S said he was working for us.

S said he saw John McCone the other day and suggested that it might be helpful if K saw him. K said he would love to but his schedule just wouldn't permit it just now, but promised he would see him at a very early opportunity.

By NARA, Dale S/27

Telecon
Governor Reagan
2:50 10/13/69

K said he had heard enthusiastic reports about the trip to the Philippines. R said you mean we got away with it? K said, not only got away with it--you were a howling success.

Reagan said he hated to bother K, but he was speaking at Eisenhower College Dinner. Of course, he would be talking on college subjects but he wanted to speak with K. The following week he would be speaking also. He wanted to know if there had been any change in policy since that day they talked on the beach. K said, no significant changes. R asked if we still have the idea that things are going to change around the anniversary date. K said we wouldn't mind somebody calling attention to the fact that this November will be a year, and that the people who are demonstrating on the streets are probably the only ones who are against us.

R said that in the speech tomorrow night, in a portion of the speech he's quoting Winston Churchill when he said that men are not moved by material things. R says he then will say how appropriate that the man they are honoring was trained in the science of war, yet thought that war was man's greatest stupidity. R will then say that there is a price for peace that free man sometimes cannot pay, and that there is a man there among them who knows this very well. K asked if the President was going to be there; R said yes. K said that was good, and he very much appreciated. R said he was going to say that those who plan the parades are less concerned with peace than with lending aid to the enemy. K suggested that he might just say that they want us to humiliate ourselves. Silence from R; K said I don't care; it's your speech, just a suggestion. R said he will say that some universities are shutting down classes, but will point out that there will be no free discussion--that moratorium is the proper word for it.

K asked how long R would be in Washington. R said for only one night. K said when he was coming East please to let him know; K wants to bring him up to date. R said he was in agreement with that policy--that we were carrying on efforts started by Johnson for peace.

R said they were putting a 41-hour watch on the front of his house starting at midnight tonight as if he could stop the war. Said his 11-year-old son had proposed hitting the demonstrators with dirt clods. R proposed

By NARA, Dale

Telecon
Secretary Laird
3:25 p.m. 10/13/69

K said the President wanted him to call L to tell him that there is going to be a release at 4:00 tomorrow by the President announcing that he will address the nation on November 3. Wanted L to understand that there will be no more public comments from Defense or State until then. Wanted to tell L; didn't want him to read it on a ticker. L asked no more speeches?; cancel all our speeches? K said that have to do with Vietnam. There is to be no further comment on Vietnam until he has spoken. He won't make any comments until then, and he doesn't want anyone else to. L said that they have a few things that are out--about the Vietnamization thing, ... K said you can refer to anything in the past, just no new statements.

TelCon - 13 Oct - 5:15 p.m.
Mr. Kissinger
Secretary Rogers

Mr. Kissinger: The President has decided, as he may have told you already yesterday, to give that talker on November 3. He thinks it would be a good idea if there were no public comments on Vietnam until then.

Rogers: No public comments? I have to testify!

Mr. Kissinger: Any chance of getting Fulbright to delay testimony for a week?

Rogers: On what ground?

Kissinger: On grounds that the President would like you to testify on the whole complex of American policy, including the President's speech.

Rogers: I don't think it will work. I am afraid they will blast us publicly if I did that. Let's think about it. -- If we said we are going to announce something -- but if it's just to defend the President --

Kissinger: If you could do it... I am not sure the President had fully considered how you would say it. I don't think he intends to make any new major policy announcements. He thought it best if you could avoid a full-dress testimony--and then have him sum up what's already been summed up.

Rogers: Let me think about it. We have accepted in writing you know.

Kissinger: Well there was no reason not to do it then.

Rogers: I thought the letter was good. One sentence could have come out: 'Nothing we could learn from what you(?) are saying...' But it was a very good letter.

Kissinger: It came out well. Ray Price did it. I thought it was very good.

dn

By NARA, Dato 5/27

Telecon
Secretary Rogers
6:45 p.m. 10/13/69

On the President's thoughts, Rogers wanted to be sure he got the signal straight. The President indicated he wanted someone to go on a TV show on Wednesday that NBC is doing. This confused him since the new instructions were not to say anything about Vietnam until after the President's Nov. 3 address. K said he just heard about the TV show and he felt the same as Rogers and didn't know where the instructions came from. K said his own view was that we should leave Oct. 15 to the demonstrators. Rogers asked if that was the President's view. K said those are the words the President asked him to repeat to Sec. Romney who had offered to do something. K thought the TV thing was from Klein and said he would run it down and call Rogers back.

Rogers didn't feel there should be a mandatory instructions until we see how things go. It would be a mistake to hold off all instructions and thought we should do it on a day to day basis since its such a long period of time. K said, well, that was the President's intention. Rogers thought he had better talk to the President then. Rogers thought maybe the President was just talking about hearings. K was sure about that. K said it depends on what you mean by discussion. The President wanted to avoid 'on the record public statements.'' Rogers asked what the President wanted to avoid. You can't tell people they can't talk about Vietnam for three weeks. K suggested that a press conferences any questions about Vietnam should be referred to the President's speech. Rogers said it wasn't realistic, when the hottest thing in the world today is Vietnam. He thought the President meant major speeches. K said that day to day things could be covered by McCloskey. Rogers said they are raising questions about progress. He wanted to say, yes there had been progress and didn't want to back away from that. K said that anything that would reaffirm what has been said would be o.k. Whatever Rogers or Laird have already said could be reaffirmed.

Telecon
Secretary Laird
6:50 p.m. 10/13/69

K said the President would appreciate if Laird could postpone his appearance before the Fulbright committee for a week. Laird said he would. K also said the President wanted L and K to consult on how they could turn off Rogers' testimony the week before the President's address. Laird suggested that they both just write a letter saying they would not be available until after November 3. K asked how Fulbright would take that. L said he would raise hell because he has TV time blocked off. K asked if Laird thought it might be good if K called Fulbright. L didn't think so, just a letter.

Laird indicated that there was going to be a problem with the increased readiness plan and High Heels going off simultaneously. He has a wire from McGee and Goodpaster saying we should let the Canadians and our NATO allies know what we are doing. Laird said that the High Heels plan was a major communications program and will run counter to the readiness plan. L read a letter from the Intelligence Community stating the problems with doing them both at the same time. L felt we should cancel one or the other. The Intelligence Community feels they can't get a real assessment of the Soviet reaction this way and K asked if we cared about the Soviet reaction. L thought we should. L said the Joint Chiefs have recommended that we go ahead with High Heels since people are in place and go with the readiness plan on Oct. 24. K said that we really needed this, this week. Laird said High Heels will create a lot of traffic. K indicated that the Soviets know what this is anyway. Laird said, but we haven't run this in 16 months. Laird said he would send K a copy of all the papers he had on this. K said why is it that anytime you want something done, the military have 50 bureaucratic reasons why it can't be done. Laird said maybe they are being overly cautious with NATO reactions.

K asked if Laird would be free at 10:00 tomorrow (Tuesday) and maybe they should get together. Laird said he had some appointments he would have to cancel but he would be there and would bring the papers instead of sending them over. K said fine.

By NARA, Date 5/27

Telecon
Secretary Rogers
7:05 p.m. 10/13/69

K said on the TV show Wednesday night, it wasn't a Presidential directive but he would prefer if Rogers didn't appear. It was a case of crossed signals. Rogers agreed that it would make sense for him to appear on that kind of a show.

K mentioned Rogers' appearance at the Fulbright committee and suggested that if there was a way Rogers could get out of it until after Nov. 3 it would be helpful. Rogers said he didn't want to try right now. They (committee) are trying to get him to the Executive Session. He wanted to wait until a few days have lapsed. Rogers asked if the President made the announcement and K said it was done at the 4:00 press briefing.

Rogers indicated that the wives would release separate letters to the moratorium people. He thought we had taken the edge off with this and Humphrey's statement. K agreed that it may look a little better. He said it was hard for the people to keep up claims that we are not doing anything. Rogers said we have done everything they have asked for. The fact is, he added, for whatever the reasons, the war has de-escalated. If they want to say that's not progress, then let them. Rogers asked if K had seen Goodell's comment. K had and thought it was terrible the way G was carrying on.

UCLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By NARA, Dated 5/27

Telecon
Secretary Laird
9:30 a.m. 10/14/69

K said he would be coming over at 10:15 just to go over exercise to see
what it will take to get it started. Laird said it has already started but
they could discuss the problem of running High Heels at the same time.
K said he hasn't been in touch with Wheeler but W may want to sit in on
the meeting. Laird said he had already asked him. K thought the two
of them should have a private meeting for about 15 minutes. K would like
to give him a briefing first. K asked if Col. Haig could also sit
in and Laird had no objections.

Laird said he played it low key with State on these exercises. Ted Elliot
briefed Richardson. K asked if they squawked. Laird said they asked what
it was all about and he told them they would have to ask the highest authority
about it. He told them it was a training exercise.

Laird said there was a problem with State (Rogers) in cancelling appearance
before Fulbright hearings. Laird told Rogers he had better think about it.
K said he didn't see how Rogers could appear before the President's speech.
They will compare what he says or will scoop the President. Laird thought
it would be much more meaningful if he appears afterwards.

Telecon

Joe Sisco

12:10 p.m.

10/14/69

Sisco wanted K to be aware that he sent a paper over to [secret] Hal Saunders for the President's and K's information. It gives no new decisions but the Secretary wanted the President to have it and this is the way we would be proceeding. K asked where we stood with Dobrynin. Sisco said basically we have found agreement on a form of words to express the Rhodes formula. The interesting thing in Sisco's meeting tomorrow in light of events in Cairo is whether they will back off. (Missed point here that Sisco made) Sisco said sometime next week, they would get at the remaining crucial points, i. e., neutral formalities(?) with more specific paragraphs on boundaries. When asked what his prognosis was, Sisco said what will occur is basically adoption of a more balanced position. It will be good from the point of view of our overall interests in the area. Given the situation in Cairo, we are going to come to a real meeting of the minds. Sisco said after K has read the paper, he would appreciate knowing if K thinks it is o.k. K said he would call.

Sisco asked what went on with the meeting with the Prince this morning. K said he didn't go. Sisco said he should have gone then.

By NARA, Date 5/27

Telecon
Governor Rockefeller
4:50 p.m. 10/14/69

Rockefeller asked if K got him. K said yes - it took two hours but we did it. K indicated it would go ahead day by day for the next two weeks. They have already picked some of it up and it will build. K said he was glad to have a chance to talk to the G. K said the NVN Prime Minister has released a letter to the peac e movement in this country in which he says 'The(NORTH) Vietnamese people fully approve and acclaim your struggle. May your fall offensive succeed.'' The letter was address to the American people. The P. M. is now in Moscow. Agnew will read it on TV making it a very tough statement. This has just been drafted. It calls on the leaders of the peace movement to disassociate themselves from a man who has killed 40,000 Americans. Rockefeller thought this was wonderful. K said it would be a very brief statement -- only to read the letter.

The G said he enjoyed their meeting and K said he looked forward to
seeing the Governor the next time he is in town.

By NARA, Date 5/27

Telecon
Donald Rumsfeld

5:00 p.m. 10/14/69

Rumsfeld said he had been asked by the White House to do the Administrative comment on the moratorium tomorrow night. K asked by whom. R said it was Haldeman. Before R did anything, he wanted to confer with K to make sure he was informed on the present situation. K said he didn't believe we should talk at all tomorrow -- it is not our day. R said since he was not involved, he is not in a position to judge and was asking K/s guidance. K said he didn't know what he could say. R said they want someone to comment on what the Administration has done domestically with respect to Vietnam. K said we are going to start bleeding all over the place and thought we should give a considered reply when we have a chance to think about it. K said he would talk to Haldeman and call him back.

Rumsfeld
5:30 p.m.

K said he talked to Haldeman. They want R to take position on developments as such and the guidance should be the letter from the P. M. R should stay away from any substance on Vietnam. R said when you are on TV and have reporters shooting queseions at you, you can't just generalize when you don't know what you are talking about. He requested a few minutes with K tomorrow to discuss some things he could say. K said he could make it a 7:40. here in K's office.