PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL

January 21, 1963

MEMORANDUM

Conversation with Monsieur Jean Laloy in Paris, January 12, 1963

(Also present: General Beaufre)

The meeting was arranged privately.

Laloy, whom I had never heard discuss military matters, began with a discussion of the Nassau agreement very similar to that of Jurgensen's and, for that matter, Couve de Murville's. He said that the meeting between Macmillan and DeGaulle in Ramboillet in December had been decisive. Macmillan's evasiveness with respect to military cooperation had demonstrated Great Britain's unwillingness to cast its lot with Europe. He therefore thought British membership in the Common Market would now prove much more difficult. France would probably insist that Britain fulfill every last provision of the Rome Treaty.

We then discussed the Nassau agreement some more and I urged that France at least enter the dialogue with us rather than prejudge the issue. Rather surprisingly, Laloy asked whether I thought that the Nassau agreement precluded Franco-British cooperation in the nuclear field.

Laloy then turned to political issues. He said he was convinced that informal U.S.-Soviet negotiations were already

PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL

Conversation with Jean Laloy -2- January 21, 1963

January 12, 1963

going on. They would soon become formal. He thought that
the direction in which we had been going would not be fruitful.
He did not think that our formula about non-diffusion of
nuclear weapons would prove acceptable to the Soviet Union.
He criticized our approach to the Berlin negotiations. He
thought that the International Access Authority was dangerous.
He felt it implied a recognition of Eastern Germany and would
lead to more and more recognition. He thought we were heading
towards some U.N. presence in Berlin. He had found the State
Department denial of this extremely unconvincing--couched as
it was in the past tense. In any case, deeds were more im-
portant than constant reassurance.

I said that France's voice would have greater weight if
it participated in Allied councils rather than criticizing
from the sidelines. Laloy said that he agreed.

Henry A. Kissinger

Henry V. Kissinger

from the authorities. Lajoie said that he agreed.

It bartered in Vilitel compounds rather than criticizing

it was in the best tense. In any case, deeds were more im-
departmental of this extremely unconvincing--conched as
towards some U.M. presence in Berlin. He had found the state
lead to more and more recognition. He thought we were heading
He felt it implied a recognition of Eastern Germany and would
thought that the International Access Authority was dangerous.

He criticized our approach to the Berlin negotiations. He
nuclear weapons would prove acceptable to the Soviet Union.

He did not think that our formula about non-diffusion of
the direction in which we had been going would not be fruitful.

Going on. They would soon become formal. He thought that

January 13, 1963
Conversation with Jean Lajoie -5- January 31, 1963

PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL