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FOR THE HONORABLE HENRY KISSINGER

PROGRAM The Today Show

STATION WRC TV
NBC Network

DATE December 19, 1977 7:00 AM

CITY Washington, D. C.

SUBJECT An Interview with Dr. Kissinger

TOM BROKAW: Israeli Prime Minister Begin is in New York where he'll be meeting today with officials of the United Nations. He spent the weekend, of course, in Washington where he met with, among others, President Carter, and he outlined for the President the plan that he will present to President Sadat of Egypt. Among other things, Prime Minister Begin said that his country now is proposing some autonomy for Arab Palestinians on the West Bank and a withdrawal of Israeli troops from much of the Sinai.

Among others, Prime Minister Begin met with Dr. Kissinger, the former Secretary of State, over the weekend. Dr. Kissinger is in our Washington News Center this morning with NBC News' diplomatic correspondent Dick Valeriani.

Gentlemen, if I may begin, how much authority will President Sadat have to accept this kind of proposal, especially in the West Bank area, Dr. Kissinger, where now Prime Minister Begin is proposing that the Arab Palestinians have some autonomy?

DR. HENRY KISSINGER: Of course, President Sadat has full authority to accept the proposal as far as Egypt is concerned. As far as the West Bank is concerned, President Sadat will have to keep in mind the opinion of the other Arab countries and the opinion of the Palestinian Arabs. But I believe that this proposal will go a long way towards meeting the basic principles that he outlined before the Israeli Parliament.

RICHARD VALERIANI: Dr. Kissinger, as you pointed out, a lot of spectacular things are going on now. Is peace really breaking out in the Middle East?

DR. KISSINGER: Well, the last time I said it, that

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delayed it for a while.

I believe that enormous progress towards peace has been made in recent weeks. The biggest obstacle to negotiations in the past has been the psychological distrust between the Arabs and the Israelis. That caused the Israelis to demand formal acceptance, which they could never get. It caused the Arabs to refuse to have any contact. It meant that every negotiation took weeks of haggling over marginal territorial questions.

I think that the visit of President Sadat to Jerusalem has created a new atmosphere. So on this level, enormous progress has been made.

On the practical level, I believe that what Prime Minister Begin above all attempted to do in the proposals he put before President Carter and that he explained to me yesterday is to make clear to President Sadat that he had heard him, that his basic concerns have been understood. He's realistic enough to understand that there must be a negotiation so that there may be details and aspects that will evolve as the negotiations proceed.

But I do believe that President Sadat can feel that his principles have been heard.

VALERIANI: Well, in that connection, Prime Minister Begin said yesterday that President Carter called the plan a fair basis for negotiations. You have seen the details. Is it a final plan, or is it a starting point, a negotiating starting point?

DR. KISSINGER: Well, I agree with President Carter. I think it is a fair basis from which negotiations can start. No plan in a negotiation is the last word. And I don't believe that the Prime Minister is going to submit it to President Sadat on the basis of take it or leave it. But within the context of certain general principles towards which tremendous progress has been made, I think, then, details can be negotiated, and even aspects of the plan can probably be adjusted.

VALERIANI: Do you think, Dr. Kissinger, there is enough time for President Sadat to work with without being accused of selling out the Arab cause?

DR. KISSINGER: Well, I think, even as it stands, it represents a greater progress in the negotiations than has been the case at any time in the Arab-Israeli conflict. Whether President Sadat considers every provision enough -- and no doubt he has his own ideas on the subject; I don't want to prescribe to him how he should react -- but I think he must feel that since his visit to Jerusalem, the Israeli government has taken steps that go far beyond anything that has ever been talked about before.

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VALERIANI: Tom Brokaw has another question in New York.

BROKAW: Dr. Kissinger, doesn't this really mean that we're likely to have a unilateral peace agreement, however, between Egypt and Israel before we get to any kind of collective agreement between the Arab world and Israel, especially when Prime Minister Begin is talking about coming back to this country for a final signing of some kind in the presence of President Carter?

DR. KISSINGER: Well, I have always believed that even a partial peace is better than a continuation of the sort of conflict that has torn the Middle East for a generation. But as I understand both President Sadat and Prime Minister Begin, whatever is agreed on the West Bank and in the Sinai will be considered as a part of a comprehensive settlement. It will not stop the negotiating process, but is intended to lead towards a more comprehensive one. But we shouldn't underrate the significance of even what can be achieved right now. After all, Egypt has a population of forty million. If it should be possible to settle the Sinai issues and the West Bank issues, the greatest part of the problems will have been negotiated. And then the Syrian and Lebanese problems which remain can be discussed in a much calmer atmosphere.

VALERIANI: Well, following up on that, what kind of a scenario do you see now being played out? What happens physically? The Egyptians and Israelis come to some kind of agreement....

DR. KISSINGER: Well, I would expect that the Egyptians and the Israelis will agree on some basic principles and on the outlines of a settlement, that they will then form working groups to work out the details. This could or could not be ratified here at a conference in Washington or some other place. This depends on the parties and on the administration.

Then either at Geneva or in some other forum, maybe the Israelis will have a separate negotiation with Syria and Lebanon. And then the whole thing gets ratified at Geneva.

VALERIANI: When do you see Jordan coming in, for example?

DR. KISSINGER: I believe that Jordan should come in as part of the West Bank negotiations, that if agreement in principle is reached between President Sadat and Prime Minister Begin, and if King Hussein finds that this is something he can live with, he should come in as part of that negotiation.

VALERIANI: Do you think that President Sadat needs some public, openly stated support from somebody like Jordan or like Saudi Arabia before he concludes an agreement with Israel, or can he go ahead and do it on his own?

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DR. KISSINGER: I think if President Sadat feels that these principles, or some modification of them, are acceptable, I think he will go ahead on whatever emerges out of the Cairo discussions.

VALERIANI: Why do you think Jordan is being so cautious on this?

DR. KISSINGER: Well, I think Jordan is in an extremely difficult position. It was excluded by the Rabat Conference from any negotiation on the West Bank. It is closely tied to Syria. It does not feel that it should take the leading role in an issue that is so contentious. At the same time, I believe that the West Bank is of such great concern to it that, in practice, it will find a way of participating in the negotiations, if it finds them at all compatible with King Hussein's principles.

VALERIANI: Dr. Kissinger, thank you very much for coming in this morning.

Now back to Tom Brokaw in New York.

BROKAW: Dr. Kissinger, Dick Valeriani, thank you both very much.