TelCon
Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger
6:45 pm, March 16, 1973

K: Hello.

D: Hello Henry.

K: He's left for Mexico.

D: (laughter) Exactly. Where you are? Well, before going for some party I couldn't go to party without saying hello to you, and wish you a nice vacation.

K: Thank you, aren't you nice.

D: Yeah. I hope--and there was a warning that the white sharks appear this season, so be careful.

K: (laughter)

D: Well if it will be a rest shark, it's a friendly one.

K: Well if they start circling I'll hit them on the nose.

D: Exactly.

K: I just hope I won't use your methods for dealing with crocodiles.

D: Well, this is the point, you could do it. Just --

K: Well, I think I'll just stay behind them, I'll always swin to their rear.

D: This is point, usually just take them by tail. And then you will be in better position.

K: I think that right.

D: Yes, you can use their dynamic force in swimming quick, but

K: I think that sounds reasonable.

D: Well, Henry, I do wish you the very best, and I hope nothing will disturb you while being there for this 10 or so days.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority
By: W.J. MCGINNIS
Date: 10-15-73

2

K: Maybe you could make a request through your allies for about 10 days to observe the agreement.

D: Do they know you are going on vacation. Probably they don't know, otherwise probably they would stop maybe.

K: Probably.

D: Your old friend Le Duc Tho, you should invite him to come to Acapulco. It will be quite a--

K: It would be an experience.

D: I'm sure it would be quite an experience. And really everything will be under control.

K: Okay, Anatol, I'll see you as soon as I come back.

D: Yeah. Around 27th or 28th.

K: That's right.

D: So you'll be in touch I am sure.

K: Good.

D: Well, I will not try to spoil your vacation by making calls on the people I am calling. From time to time I am sure I will call you.

K: Good, excellent Anatol.

D: Yeah. Bye bye.

K: Bye. Thank you for calling.

D: Yes, bye bye.

TelCon

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

6:45 pm, March 16, 1973

K: Hello.

D: Hello Henry.

K: He's left for Mexico.

K: (laughter)

D: Exactly.

K: I think that right.

D: Well, Henry, I do wish you the very best, and I hope nothing will disturb you for this 10 or so days.

DECLASSIFIED

Autumnal E01/25/73
By DAVID M. BARNETT / Mar 16 1973

2

K: Probably.

K: It would be an experience.

D: Yeah. Around 27th or 28th.

K: That's right.

K: Good.

D: Well, I will not try to spoil your vacation by making calls on the President of The United States. From time to time I am sure I will call you.

K: Good, excellent Anatol.

D: Yeah. Bye bye.

D: Yes, bye bye.

CLASSIFIED

Autograph HAROLD GILSON

T

TELCONE

Dobrynin/Kissinger

3:25 p.m. - 3/17/73

D: Hello.

K: Anatol.

D: Yes, hello Henry. How's the Italians?

K: Did I wake you up?

D: No, how is the Italy thing going?

K: Great, it's going to stay in NATO.

D: I see. Well, how have things been going?

K: On this issue which we discussed yesterday, we are willing to say we'll
do everything possible.

D: Possible is going to stay in. The word possible is really - because
in Russian when you say "everything's possible" he doesn't like
the word "possible." And the reason . . . . . . translate badly.
This is the whole we worry about. I am telling you the word in the
message yesterday.

K: Everything just doesn't make any sense in English.

D: Well it's better--relative to concentration--------or it is, I don't know
how to put it to you in English. To avoid situations, everything----
He said everything to promote, this was his idea.

K: No, no, I understand.

D: How else could you say. Could you vote to a voice, or to promote----
So, I don't see very much change from first your offering that is utmost

K: Except that everything is a very awkward word.

D: Well, I don't know why---------- everything, it's not mine idea.
Could you sat: To all to prevail, or is it the same. To do all to prevent
is actually--

K: The utmost is--

D: This is my impression too, I don't--

K: Utmost in English is a better phrase than everything. I don't know how

DECLASSIFIED
Authority: E012055
By: W.N.aga

you can do more than your "utmost".

D: Well, exactly. Maximum is nothing. What you told me--I use two kinds of things; first, this sounds as practical as anything I use, and second, he has already communicated again, his answer was well we have to move a little bit further yet. Because the Russians does everything possible.

K: Let me think about summing this word.

D: Okay, try it.

K: Okay, let me see what I can do.

D: Okay.

K: On the other two questions I'll have an answer hopefully back tomorrow on it.

D: By tomorrow!

K: Well, on the MFN I can already answer.

D: Yes, what is answer.

K: We think it will go through the House in the first week of August.

D: I see.

K: And in the Senate, oh, something during October we think.

D: October, yeah. Just approximate so to speak.

K: Yeah.

D: What could--are you now sure things will go right.

K: Well, we are meeting with the Congressional people tomorrow on --with your paper. And we can hand that out, can we?

D: What can you hand?

K: We can give them the text which you gave us.

D: I think it's better to say, not to give them the text.

K: Not to give it. Just to read it.

D: I think you can give just a summary, that's all.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority: E012052
By: MWAPD

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E012058
By: MW

K: Okay, fine.

D: It would practically say the same thing.

K: Okay, fine.

D: But, as I understand, Brezhnev now he's coming in June. What really he says now, as of now he thinks everything was from our side to help to move this easier. So time he would be here--so

K: Well you know what we thought, but I'd like to work it out on the trade side, is that maybe we could state some general goals of what we are aiming for.

D: In what way?

K: In the next two or three years. For expanding trade.

D: Okay, would you be saying in the morning, that precise.

K: And something along the lines of --also perhaps some progress on the natural gas thing.

D: Yeah, mention this, you can say something because as it now looks it looks about what you said about this--

K: Right, well let me see if I can give you something in the morning.

D: In the morning.

K: Right.

D: Okay. But on this one I would like you to phone this today.

K: Good.

D: That takes care of everything. When you call, would you make it before six.

K: Before six.

D: Yeah, because otherwise I will be having dinner I guess. Because otherwise you will be having a nice party. And after the nice party you will think anything.

K: You can bet on that. Okay, good. I'll do everything to call you.

D: Okay, bye.

TELECON

Dobrynin/Kissinger

3:25 p. m. - 3/17/73

E: Hello.

K: Anatol.

K: Did I wake you up?

K: No, no, I understand.

D: How else could you say. Could you vote a voice, or to promote----
So, I don't see very much change from first your offering that is utmostQ.

D: Well, I don't know why----------- everything, it's not mine idea.
Could you sat: To all to prevail, or is it the same. To do all to prevent
is actually--

K: The utmost is--

CLASSIFIED

By DAVID HARRIS/AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Antony E017258

2

you can do more than your utmost".

D: Okay, try it.

D: Okay.

D: By tomorrow!

D: Yes, what is answer.

D: I see.

K: Yeah.

D: What can you hand?

K: Not to give it.

Just to read it.

D: J
I think you can give just a summary, that's all.

CLASSIFIED
By: MARY DEGALIS

By: MARY DEGALIS
Antony EO17258

CLASSIFIED
APR.10 EO17258

3

K: Okay, fine.

K: Okay, fine.

D: But, as I understand, Brezhnev now he's coming in June. What really he says now, as of now he things everything was from our side to help so move this easier. So time he would be here--so

D: In what way?

D: In the morning.

K: Right.

K: Good.

K: Before six.

D: Okay, bye.

-2-

and when you will receive this, of course, you will show it to the President.

S: Yes, of course.

D: The answer, or I think maybe good idea to send to Henry there, to vacation, that he may know.

S: Yes, I'll get it to him.

D: Yes, the text and maybe then if he thinks it's a good idea maybe I could drop in tomorrow or the day after tomorrow when it's more convenient for him to your office, and have a chat with him by telephone -- your telephone, not from my embassy.

S: Oh, yes.

D: How do you think it is, all right?

S: Yes, I think so.

D: So you just check with Henry, and I will be tomorrow back from New York. I will give you a call and then you will give me the answer and maybe some preliminary observations. If you give him the text and the second points which we are going to give you to you.

S: All right, I'll get those down to him.

D: Yes, because we left it with him when he left that if there will be any __________ from the text then we will just poke it all into one.

S: Good, of course.

D: So, now that the translation is finished, Mr. Vorontsov will be in touch with you, and please go ahead.

S: That's fine. I'll be here all day.

D: Yes, because Mr. Brezhnev--I mentioned yesterday to the President about it because Brezhnev asked me to do when he left with __________ and with regard to the President to mention that it is coming and he hopes that the President could look and the President said of course I will do because he is already himself personally on this text working. Now I think we have on a sure __________ because our both of us begin to stick on ... begin to look on a document and feel a __________ with them.

R: S: Right.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E012958
By: N.M. APAS Date: 06/30/04

TELCONE

Rowland Evans/Kissinger

11:00 a.m. - 3/27/73

K: Hello.

E: How's the water skier?

K: I was terrific.

E: I didn't see any pictures yet.

K: Well that's because I have private beaches there. I don't go where
you go.

E: How're ya doing? Have a good time?

K: I'm doing fine. Had a very good time.

E: When did you get back?

K: Last night.

E: I just want to say welcome home and also remind you, although I don't know what you wish to do about it if anything, that Bob is leaving on Saturday.

K: Bob who?

E: Novak.

K: Right.

E: And he's going to be in Japan for a week and then he goes to Vietnam
and . . . . . . something about our request to do up north.

K: OK, I'll do something.

E: Well, I don't know whether you should or not.

K: It's not the most brilliant time.

E: You think the lid is going to come off after we get our troops out?

K: Not so fast.

E: You don't think so?

K: No.

DECLASSIFIED

DECLASSIFIED

E: You're not generally pessimistic?

K: No. No, and if it comes off they're going to be in for something.

E: I won't talk to you about that obviously. We can't do that on the phone.

K: I don't mind Haldeman knowing what I'm saying to you.

E: I understand we're not going to have Bob to kick around anymore.

K: I tell you it'd be a disaster if he left.

E: Why?

K: Because I don't know who can hold this place together.

E: That's quite an interesting statement. I don't think you mean it.

K: I do mean it. That doesn't mean that I like everything he does.

E: Oh, my god, this Watergate thing, Henry, has become an uncontrollable, dangerous mess. Really dangerous.

K: Oh yes, that I agree with.

E: And nobody knows. Everybody suspects everybody else and nobody knows - that's the mystery of it.

K: Neither do I.

E: Nobody. Not even Chuck Colson; nobody knows the real story. Nobody even knows whether there is a real story to know. That's the extraordinary thing about it.

K: I don't think there is.

E: There has to be. There has to be.

K: But I don't know. Look, I know probably less about it than you do. I must say one thing and that's really speaking as an individual. Anyone who's concerned with civil liberties has to be concerned with jail sentences of 50 years to make people talk. I mean quite seriously.

DECLASSIFIED

Advisory E017258
By: D.A. Parable

E: You think in other words that this is...

K: Well, I think it was - there was obviously a burglary. But I think if when tempers cool and one asks oneself whether ________ should be permitted to do this, what is then the protection of the amendment.

E: Not only that he's going to - when he goes to the judge on Thursday - McCord - it's entirely not under oath.

K: Oh, it isn't?

E: No.

K: That is the only aspect of it - well, it's not a good subject to discuss.

E: No, well listen would you like to have breakfast with me some day?

K: Well, you see I have to see the important people first.

E: How about next week?

K: Unfortunately I'll be on the West Coast next week.

E: All week?

K: Yeh.

E: Can you give me a few minutes on Thursday?

K: Yeh. Thursday or Friday.

E: I got to make a speech Friday. I got to leave here about noon. How about breakfast Friday?

K: I think I have one. I think I have one with Javits.

E: Well, look, I must see you.

K: I will see you, Rollie, seriously. You're coming on the 15th?

E: That's all set. We're looking forward to it too. Where's that going to be?

K: I haven't figured that out yet, but I shall let you know.

E: Listen is this an announcement?

TELCORN

Minister Sykes (Great Britain Emb.)/
Mr. Kissinger

7:30 p. m., March 27, 1973

K: I'm calling you about the fact that Brimelow now won't be able to come
over here. What has happened is that the Soviets have given us a
counterdraft.

S: Ah, I see.

K: And I would like to comment to them about it.

S: Um-humm.

K: Now if he can't come, have you got secure ways of getting it back?

S: Oh, yes.

K: So that it doesn't get into 50 copies.

S: No indeed. We can quite easily, if you can let us have it, we can send
it back and make quite certain that it will go direct unopened to Sir
Brimelow and he can then comment on it.

K: How quickly do you think I could get his answers?

S: Let me think --

K: When would you like it, first thing in the morning?

S: If you could let us have it first thing in the morning --

K: Yes.

S: I'm afraid I shan't be there myself because I have to go up to New York
but the Ambassador is back and his private secretary could take it and
see that it went to Brimelow.

K: Oh, okay. Well, I'll get it to the Ambassador then.

S: Um-humm. I will warn his private secretary that there will be something
coming for onward transmittal.

K: I was told he wasn't back yet.

S: No, he got back just the weekend.

K: Right.

DECLASSIFIED

Antonly E017258
By: J.A. Deolosay

TELECON

David Rockefeller/Kissinger

9:04 a.m. - 3/28/73

K: Hello.

R: Henry.

K: David, how are you?

R: I'm very well, I hope you are.

K: I'm fine.

R: I wanted to report a couple of things. One, the meeting with our Chinese friend was extremely successful.

K: Oh, marvelous!

R: He did precisely what you said he would, has extended the invitation, explained why he had removed my name from the list for the Pakistan trip and we have suggested June and he's going to come back to us after he checks there. So I just wanted to thank you very much for what you've done. It couldn't be better.

K: It's good to know that there is at least one reliable people in the world.

R: Right. Well, really it went absolutely beautiful. So: brought it up so I didn't have to.

K: I was confident it was going to work that way.

R: Yeh, well it couldn't have gone better. Number two, I got a very nice letter from the President where I suspected your fine hand, but it was a very nice one nevertheless.

K: Oh, good.

R: And it among other things says, as you probably know, that he suggested that I keep in touch with you about chairing of the meeting for the Council of Latin America.

K: I knew about that.

R: Now I don't want to bother you personally with this but who on your staff now would be the right person so that we could. . .

K: Bill Jordan.

CLASSIFIED

Adroly E017258 -
By DAVID MARCH 01/5/73

2

R: Bill Jordan.

K: Right.

R: Why don't I call him and may I tell him about it and then we'll see.

K: Absolutely.

R: Just out of curiosity, the initial or the signature of the letter this time was totally different from any I've seen before.

K: Oh really?

R: It's quite curious because he usually has RN in quite a distinctive way, but this is quite a different signature. You don't know why.

K: That I can't tell you.

R: Well, not important, I just am curious.

K: But if you bring it in I'll take a look at it.

R: I'll bring it with me. It really is rather interesting. OK.

K: Well, I'm delighted this is all working out and before you go to China let me know.

R: Oh yes. Well it won't be until June. I am in the meantime going to go over to open and officiate at a reception in connection with our Moscow office in the middle of May. So that's moving ahead too. It seems to be concentrating on the Communist countries.

K: The Communists know who's really running this country.

R: This is what they're saying. OK and thanks loads.

K: Good David. Bye.

DECLASSIFIED

Auto. by J. M. DeGuiseppe
By A. M. DeGuiseppe

TelCon
Amb. Cromer/Mr. Kissinger

9:47 am, March 28, 1973

K: Hello.

C: Good morning, Henry, how are you?

K: Fine, Rollie, how are you? What do you mean seeing Ambassadors off at the airport?

C: I see Ministers off. Our Finance Minister.

K: Oh, your Finance Minister, I see.

C: They've been reforming the world's monetary system they tell me.

K: [laughter] I understand it's the greatest agreement since the Smithsonian.

C: That's just about right, yes (laughter).

K: Rollie, I would like, in any event, to talk to Brimlow about MBFR.

C: Yeah.

K: And also, I wonder whether Bourke could come with him this time. I would like to have a comprehensive talk---

C: Well, what sort of day are you talking about?

K: Well, whenever you can--

C: ______ is back and just gone off on a two-week vacation.

K: Well, let's say in three weeks, then.

C: Oh, yes, that will be fine.

K: Around the 20th?

C: Oh, yes--

K: Or around the 15th.

C: Around the 15th or 20th, let me check can I?

DECLASSIFIED
Aero. 01-2258 f
By: D. M. Dilsen

*

2

K: Well, do it as early as possible because we would like to proceed on this comprehensive Atlantic approach.

C: Yes, quite. I hope to have a paper for you quite well before that.

K: Good, and then we can fit MBFR into that. I'm reluctant to unleash our people on trade without having some general view.

C: Well, I think that's very wise.

K: So, could we get Bourke over here.

C: I'm sure we could.

K: Incidentally, Peterson tells me that he had a really extraordinary good session with Bourke and I'm going to have Peterson--Peterson and I are going to work closely on these things.

C: Oh, that's very good. I think George Shultz had a good talk with the Prime Minister as well as the Chancellor of the Exchequer too.

K: Right.

C: Let me just send him a signal about the dates, and I'll come back to you just as soon as I can.

K: Good, and you got that other document I sent you.

K: Yes, thank you very much, and I certainly have some comments on it, if there are any. It should arrive in London this morning.

K: Good. Now you understand this is the Soviet draft.

C: Oh yes, sure.

K: Good.

C: Well, that's fine then. Well, I'll be in touch Henry.

K: Excellent.

C: Good, many thanks.

K: Bye.

C: Bye.

GENUINE
COPYRIGHT
1961
BY
HARPER AND HEWLETT
PUBLISHERS, INC.

*

TelCon

Pierre Salinger/Mr. Kissinger

9:55 am, March 28, 1973

K: Hello.

S: How are you, how was your vacation?

K: Very good. Saw some old friends of yours.

S: I heard--I saw that, little note in the paper.

K: Oh, was it in the paper, I think didn't--

S: Yeah, it was in the New York Times yesterday. You were at a party--

K: That's right.

S: Along with Miguel Alimon and somebody else.

K: Yeah, they were very pleasant.

S: They are in good shape aren't they?

K: Oh, they are in very good shape.

S: And they were glad to meet you, so I'm glad it worked out.

K: Yeah, I'm delighted.

S: Listen, now will you do an interview, let's just think about it.

K: Well, I'm not very eager to pop off right now. I understand you did something anyway.

S: I did a story about you, it was called The Great Kissinger

K: Oh, Jesus, what is 'The Great Kissinger', I'd better read it.

S: It's a little difficult to find out to tell you the truth. But there was nothing in there to make you unhappy.

K: Oh no, no, I wasn't told that there would be.

CLASSIFIED

Autumnal E017258

By DAVID MARCHMILLER/SUPPLIED

2

K: Frankly, I haven't read it, I don't know what was in it.

S: I did a larger piece about US China policy, and they were short that week of space, so they cut out what I had written about the China policy and just printed what I said about you.

K: What week was it?

S: I'll get it for you.

K: Could you?

S: Yeah, I'll mail it to you from Paris.

K: Good.

S: My editor is a little bit on my back, do you think I can say then that at some time you're gonna do this?

K: Yes, if we can push it a few months away.

S: Right.

K: In principle, I'm not opposed to it.

S: Okay. Why don't I tell them then that you will do it in a couple of months and then we'll negotiate by letter and so on that they are gonna get the interview.

K: Good.

S: Okay, fine.

K: Bye.

S: Thanks a lot.

DECLASSIFIED

Article E017258
By DAVID P. CHALEY

TelCon

11:02 am, March 28, 1973

Peter Flanigan/Mr. Kissinger

K: Hello.

F: Hello Henry. The sun shone and I woke up.

K: Yes, it always does.

F: Henry, the problem of MFN for the Soviet Union. We are supposed to send our trade bill up two weeks from yesterday and as the alternatives are to send it up with just a flat authority to--

K: I understand. Or to have a separate one for the Soviets.

F: Well, there's three. One is a separate bill, that I think should be put together, put in our bill and in either case the Jackson amendment would be added, and the third option would be to give the President the authority subject to Congressional. I kinda like the third but in order to avoid it being--they are trying to hamster it up there, we would need to be able to give them something definitive about what's happening in the Soviet Union. And you recall what we agreed we'd hold up on any of that until you came back so you could talk to Dobrynin.

K: Right, well I'm seeing Dobrynin tonight.

F: Oh, you are.

K: So, let me get back to you tomorrow.

F:q That would be perfect. We'll just hold everything including the draft language until we hear from you.

K: Good.

F: In the meantime we got the full authority in the bill because that's what looks best, but when you come back to us we'll determine--

K: Good. Excellent.

F: Thanks Henry, bye.

K: Bye.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E017458 f
By: D.A. DeGroot

TELCONE

Bob Haldeman/Mr. Kissinger

11:12 a.m., March 28, 1973

K: Hello.

H: Now what have you done?

K: I wanted to check with you -- We could announce out of here that we are sending an advance team to China, just in case you wanted to have some good news out of here. Alternatively, we could do it out of State. Do you have any views?

H: Not particularly. I don't think it makes a hell of a lot of difference. Would it be appropriate for it to come out of here?

K: We've been making all of these announcements. You know, it wouldn't be a headline news. It would be just something that Ziegler could drop out.

H: Does Ron want to?

K: I haven't asked him because I wanted to get your view first.

H: I don't have any strong feeling one way or the other. We have no burning need to lob out any news I don't think.

K: Well, should I settle it with Ron then?

H: Sure.

K: I have one or two other things but I have somebody here now.

H: Okay.

K: I'll drop over later.

H: Okay.

K: Good.

wgh

CLASSIFIED

Automobile E011258
By A. HALEN 03/26/73

TELCOM

Ron Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger

11:14 a.m., March 28, 1973

K: Ron, we are getting ready to send an advance team for that Liaison Office to China.

Z: Yeah.

K: I talked to Bob and he left it up to you whether we should announce it here or whether State should announce it. Have you any views?

Z: Oh, let State do it.

K: Okay.

Z: Yeah.

K: Okay, fine. We'll let them do it then.

Z: I mean, when Bruce goes and so forth, then I think we should but, I mean, an advance team -- It will get just as good play from there. You see what I mean?

K: Yeah. Well, that's fine. Why don't we let them do it. They'll probably try to play it as if it were a major State Department effort again.

Z: Yeah, but no one would believe that. I mean, that's --

K: Okay, fine.

Z: That's the least of our worries. They could spend every hour for the next 15 years in an attempt to take credit for China and not be able to do it.

K: Yeah. Okay, good.

Z: Okay.

K: Bye.

wgh

DECLASSIFIED

Advisory E01758
By: J. D. Hays

12:13 pm, March 28, 1973

K: Hello.

D: Hello Henry, welcome home.

K: Thank you.

D: Really, indeed, I bother you on one thing. Just to------
Madame Forquier, friends of yours.

K: Don't use such language with me-

(Laughter)

D: Well, you've got friends around the world so his wife is Minister of Culture, why shouldn't be your friend, after all.

K: Yes.

D: Well, the problem I have is this one, because she's an energetic wormman and he's pressing me, so I am just illustrating to you, but it is possible or not, what she--she brought from Moscow a painting of a Russian landscape as a present for the President, and she would like to present him rather whenever she could--she says for five minutes. Could it be arranged or not, I am asking you, so then I will bring on some occasion. I don't want to press you, it is not--

K: Anatol, the President is tied up today and tomorrow. It's conceivable that he could do it Friday/

D: Friday, she will be here until very late on Friday.

K: All right, let me check it and---

D: Check and let me know. If not, there is no offensive, but just you know.

K: Okay.

D: Okay.

K: Good.

D: Okay, Henry, bye bye.

K: Bye.

CLASSIFIED

By DAVID HARRIS 03/26/73

TelCon

Mr. Farley/Mr. Kissinger

12:20 pm, March 28, 1973

K: Hello.

F: Good morning, this is Phil Farley.

K: Yes, Phil, how are you?

F: Fine. Since things of secondary importance may get overlooked if they aren't called to your attention, I wanted to give you one minute on this matter of chemical ware fare issue. You asked when we had our meeting a few weeks ago if there was a timing problem--

K: Yeah.

F: I tried not to make it sound any worse than it is because it's not an uncontrollable thing. But one matter has turned up since which means there's a little risk of tightening up on the President's options if there's --this thing is stretched out. The matter continues under discussion in the Geneva disarmament committee. That makes other countries have to look a bit to their position, and in that need and not having a statement from us of what we're doing, the British and Italians have begun to move the -- harden on the idea of that the only thing that's tolerable is a comprehensive approach with very searching clarification requirements.

K: What is your preferred position?

F: We would be quite content with what's called Option 2 in there.

K: Which is--I don't have--

F: That's the same one that State and--

K: Yeah, but sum it up for me.

F: That would be ban on production but permitting continuing--

K: Research.

F: Stockpiles also, you see. This is important to be able to say we do--

DECLASSIFIED

Article E017258
By D. HARRIS Dec 01/59

2

K: Well, our friends at the JCS have not discovered that if they use arms control ruthlessly enough they can use it for arms build-up.

F: I would never have suspected that of them. But if you say so.

K: That's the impression that's slowly dawning on me.

F: Well, even if it takes me longer to learn me. Really the only message I wanted to get across--

K: Well, I get your point.

F: Little risky time, because it's easy for people to take those rather hard positions, then hard to get off them.

K: Good. Thank you.

F: Sure thing.

K: Bye.

CLASSIFIED

Actively E012723
By: HAROLD G. BRYAN 01/25/64

TelCon
Joe Alsop/Mr. Kissinger

2:35 pm, March 28, 1973

K: Hello.

A: Hello Henry, how are you?

K: Okay.

A: Any chance of seeing you. I'd like to see you either today or tomorrow.

K: I would have to call you in the morning, it's very grim right now.
Because I'll have to stay until late into the night tonight.

A: What about breakfast tomorrow.

K: No, breakfast I'm taking every morning this week. But I'll do my
damndest to see you.

A: Cause I do long to have a chat with you. I think things are getting
kind of edgy, edgy. You are going away aren't you.

K: For a week, yes.

A: And everything is getting awfully edgy and I'm very, very worried
and I long to talk to you. Are you free for lunch tomorrow.

K: No, I'm not free for any meal. Conceivable if we leave for
California late in the day that I'll be free for lunch on Friday.

A: That's one day I've got a schollar who's coming all the way to see
me from another city, and I can't turn him off. Enormously kind
of him to do so.

K: Well, let me call you tomorrow.

A: And, what about late, late, late this evening?

K: Joe, if at all it would have to be after 10:00, but really I have to get
the Annual Report out for the President.

A: Oh, I know that.

K: I'm surrounded by madmen who schedule me every half hour so that
I don't have any time. But I'll do my best.

A: How is everything going, do you think?

CLASSIFIED

All rights reserved
Copyright 1973 by
Harcourt Brace and Co.

Telcon
Mr. Kissinger
The President
3/28/73; 3:55 p.m.

K: Mr. President.

P: Hi, Henry. I got your memo on Vietnam and so forth. Let me tell you one problem and see whether we can handle it. The difficulty with going into the aid to North Vietnam . . .

K: I would not recommend it at this point.

P: How we are going to keep the Agreement and the rest, I think I can hit that. You see after my meetings with Thieu I will have to see the press and I will just lay it out there. The difficulty with

K: No, I agree with that, Mr. President. I put down everything that might conceivably be asked.

P: I will raise a little bit of a problem. You know that addition that after 25 years of __________ war we still expect some problems but mainly - so look, we accomplished our goal, not Pollyanaish. And then I think if we get into the enforcement of the Agreement and then aid to the North requires another speech.

K: I agree. I think I would add one sentence that sounds threatening to the North. I am just having a WSAG meeting but I am in a room outside where they cannot hear me. But this infiltration situation is very ominous. It is now possible that they will start an offensive. The bureaucracy just wants to bug out and I am trying to browbeat them into taking a more __________ position but if we give the impression that nothing is being done. . . I recognize you could give an explicit threat but if you get something in the line of your previous threat it would be good.

P: The hell with the aid.

K: We will just take that out.

P: The agreement has been made. We expect it to be complied with and we shall not tolerate these violations.

K: Two sentences like that would be better than all the aid garbage we could put out.

P: I don't think we should put in anything about aid.

K: I agree. In fact if this continues in May we may have to cancel the whole thing

RECLASSIFIED
Autumnal E012958
By: D.R. HARRIS/Glisson

TELCOM

Mr. Gab Hauge/Mr. Kissinger

4:45 p.m., March 28, 1973

H: Henry.

K: Gab, how are you?

H: Thanks very much for calling back. I'll be as fast as I can. I'm a little chagrined because this call is by nature of asking a favor.

K: Not at all.

H: Let me tell you, and I also can say I think this is the first one I've ever asked.

K: Gab, you don't need --

H: ... leadership.

K: You don't need to apologize.

H: I am going to go in May for a business trip through several of the Middle European countries and to Russia. Yesterday morning I had a visit with Dobrynin about my visit to Moscow and I said that in the course of my visit there because of my own background in government as well as in business, I would very highly prize an opportunity to have a few minutes with Kosygin. He said, well, you realize that that is not easy, that he is a very busy man. I said I certainly do. He said will you be bringing some special proposals or something unusual? I said, I think that would be a misrepresentation to say that, I'm coming as the head of the third largest bank in New York with interest in your country and hopefully continuing interest and so forth. Well, we had about a 30-minute visit that got increasingly interesting as time went on and he said, well, I'll tell you what I'll do, I'll send a telegram and give them all the facts and you'll just have to realize that it might be difficult. Now, Henry, what I had in mind was -- and if this is outside of the margins, well, you just forget about it -- that if there was any opportunity in a casual context for you to say that you had heard that I was going to make this visit and if you could disregard your passion for truth enough to say that I've had a 20-year connection with the President and that I have a position in the business community and that maybe the request might be considered quite carefully, I would appreciate that. If that is difficult and awkward, why forget it.

K: I think I can do that.

H: I don't want to have you incur any obligations --

DECLASSIFIED

Auto. fly EO17258
By: D. H. Gilson

TelCon

Roland Evans/Mr. Kissinger

4:54 pm, March 28, 1973

K: Hello.

E: Hi Henry.

K: Rollie, I don't think it's very helpful for us right now to recommend --to do anything about your partner.

E: Uh humm.

K: Given the state of messages which generally go back and forth.

E: I think so.

K: Well, I just don't feel like asking for a favor.

E: Yep. If that situation should change in the few weeks--

K: Then we will do it.

E: Yeah. He's gonna be in Japan starting on Sunday, next Sunday, this coming Sunday.

K: Right.

E: If you just call me and I'll wire him and tell him to pick up the visa in Tokyo.

K: Okay.

E: Can I see you Friday.

K: I'll do my best.

W: Will you give me a ring, if you can have breakfast.

K: No, I can't have breakfast.

E: And you are leaving when, Friday afternoon?

K: Friday afternoon, yes.

DECLASSIFIED

Auto. July 01 73
By: D. M. Olshev

Aero. E01725f
By: HARRY D. GIBSON

E: How's everything.

K: Everything is gone along brilliantly. As you would expect.

E: Yeah. You can't tell me on background whether you know when Brezhnev's coming, can you. I saw on the wire today that's he's not coming in May or June. Is that accurate.

K: I guess then it must be July or August. I'd be the last to know.

E: You don't know. Do you know seriously.

K: Things are settled between Russia and the President. Now, if I knew I couldn't tell you.

E: Okay. Well I didn't want to print it, I just wondered if this Jackson amendment, there's going to be a hell of an impact on his visit here you know.

K: Well, you know, it's one of the most irresponsible--the behavior of the Congress right now really, I'm talking about foreign policy, it's unbelievable. They make it impossible to enforce an agreement, they make it impossible to create ___________---positive incentive for an agreement, and they make it impossible to deal with countries that could help us police an agreement.

E: I agree with that. It's a desase, and I think it's gonna get worse, not better.

K: It is getting much worse.

E: I really want to talk to you about that Henry, I--see if you can set aside a few minutes on Friday.

K: Okay.

E: I'll give you a ring on Thursday.

K: Good. Bye.

E: Thank you.

TelCon
Ron Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger

4:56 pm, March 28, 1973

Z: Hello.

K: Ron?

Z: Hi Henry, a couple--journalists to the youth--protest around the country, and they are in my office and it would be great if you could drop in just a minute and say hello to them.

K: Okay, what's their names.

Z: I'll introduce them when they come in. They're from R&PRC.

K: Are they in there now.

Z: They are in here now, come in please.

CLASSIFIED

Antonly EO17258
Byron R. DeBoltley

TelCon

Amb. Phuong/Mr. Kissinger

5:30 pm, March 28, 1973

K: Hello.

PH: Hello, Mr. Kissinger.

K: Mr. Ambassador, how are you?

P: Did you just come back from Mexico?

K: That's right.

P: Yes, and I would like very much to call on you a little bit, but
since you are very busy--

K: Unfortunately yes.

P:

K: Of course.

P: And you would have a good double pleasure. When yesterday I went
to see Minister _______________ and I talked to him about, you know
some _______________ in Saigon. While you are away in
Mexico. It just doesn't know what happens because when I talked
to you before I left for Saigon you told me already it was clear
clearly understood that you had issued a communique and something.

K: Yes, we--

P: Yes, I went back to Saigon, I told Saigon that you told me directly

K: Yes, but we have a--we are agreeable to a communique.

P: Yes.

K: And we will give you a communique before you leave for Hawaii.
It's not yet fully agreed to but at least enough for you to take a look
at it.

PH Good, good, I'm very very glad about that. But it was--something
developed in Saigon and there was quite a ________ about it, but
I said that, no, Dr. Kissinger has ________ already and
he won't know that, and I'm very glad that the whole thing is cleared up.

DECLASSIFIED
Act. 4/25/86

By a MAR 28 1973

2

K: It's absolutely clear.

P: But, when you know, when so much mounting, they've lots of infilling in Saigon, but I will try my best to discharge it.

K: But is it all straightened out now?

P: Yes, I think that they have all settled down now, because --but for this unfortunate thing, there is still something left, because they can't get that clearly understand. But I'll do my best to explain it and to make sure they explain the whole thing.

K: Good.

P: And Saigon also is still at sea about Mr. K.Y. QUANG, Pres. Thieu.

K: About what?

P: About Mr. K.Y. QUANG, we receive here by Nixon. Just because LEXINGTON, But I explain that K.Y. QUANG, Pres. Thieu is here only on a private visit.

K: He's here on a private visit, yes. There's no official reception for him at all.

P: Yes, I explain it already to Saigon. But Henry there is one thing I would like very much to request if you can help us, that is the telegram man and the television, the Office of Information in Saigon would like very much to shoot a scene of Pres. Thieu LEXINGTON. Then his visit in the States, and therefore in San Clemente we very much need a helicopter(?) he try to do really by helicopter that you leave to us.

K: You need a what?

P: A helicopter. A special helicopter.

K: Oh, for the--

P: For the press. Our office of telegram and television who would shoot a scene of President Thieu. So could you help us, our______ but it look like they are helpless.

K: Well, let me look into it.

P: And then instead of two helicopter, I would need three.

K: I'll look into it, I think so. I'm almost certain we can do that.

DECLASSIFIED

Act. No. E017258

By DA

["3", "P: Thank you very much Dr. Kissinger. I am very sorry that for such matter I have to come to you.", "K: No, that's all right.", "P: You know, I have been trying very hard but---", "K: Of course, of course, and we will do everything to make the trip a great success.", "P: This is what I have reported to Saigon. I said that Dr. Kissinger has promised, and reported perfectly in Saigon, and I yesterday, I have reported it again.", "K: Good, they have nothing to be nervous about.", "P: Thank you very much.", "K: Good.", "P: And I will explain the whole thing to Van in Honolulu.", "K: Excellent.", "P: And I will see you . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

TELCONE

Hank Trewhitt/Mr. Kissinger

7:20 p. m., March 28, 1973

T: Welcome back from Acapulco!

K: Thank you.

T: We're looking for some guidance on how to --

K: Listen, who was that son-of-a-bitch who said that I used the word "well-done ______ and that we've lost our way"?

T: I've got to say something about that too because Klein called me in a dither. Apparently Scowcroft wrote him a letter.

K: Yeah.

T: Was the quote just wrong?

K: Look, I haven't used the word "well-done ______" ever. And I haven't said "we've lost our way". I have said on one occasion I think that it is interesting to see a very purposeful society in contact with a very pragmatic society.

T: Well, that obviously is the genesis of it. However, --

K: But I didn't say they were successful, I just said they were very purposeful.

T: That obviously is how the thing came about. ...... he's in a terrible dither up there now trying to --

K: Well, tell him not to bother to retract it. It isn't worth it.

T: Incidentally, he wants to see you. I might as well put it to you now. Would you give us a half hour together, say week after next -- something like that?

K: When we're back from California.

T: When you're back from California?

K: Yeah.

T: Because he wants to talk about Sino-Soviet and I think it would be interesting to listen in also.

K: Certainly.

CLASSIFIED
ADVERTISING

Hank Trewhitt/Mr. Kissinger

2

T: So we will try to set up something then.

K: Okay.

T: Incidentally, I thought this was a good piece.

K: It was an excellent piece except for making me the straight man for something that I agreed with.

T: Well, I now understand. I will say -- I know what the source of the quotation was and it was ...

K: No, but even that I said privately to somebody once. I never said it publicly.

T: That's right. These were non-Americans, incidentally, so it's easy to see how the thing got botched up in the process of just communicating to Klein then. I think that's probably -- Well, I'll let him explain it to you himself.

K: No, but I did say it. I think I said it once at Clare Luce's house; that's the only time I remember it.

T: So you never said it when you were in East Asia?

K: No.

T: Because I think that's where he got it but I'll let him tell you that.

K: No, certainly not.

T: How do we treat the --

K: Tell me this, for my -- Did he get in Japan?

T: I'm described fromtelling you exactly where he got it.

out

K: Because those goddamn Japanese have been putting things about me that are not to be believed.

he

T: Okay. If I tell you I can't tell you where it, is that enough of an answer?

K: Yes.

T: Okay.

CLASSIFIED
Antiquity E017258

Hank Trewhitt/Mr. Kissinger

4

T: So we will be generally expecting that some observations on both political and economic substance in terms of the future relationship?

K: Yes.

T: Right. That kind of thing. I think from developments today that the JMC is in fact going by the board. We --

K: That is our impression.

T: ... it is breaking up. Are you going to have to rationalize anymore than Warren has done so far the business of using B-52s over Cambodia? I don't really understand what the issue is because the President has said that the U.S. activity will cease when an International Supervisory ceasefire is in place in Indochina. I assume that covers it but nonetheless we have this debate ongoing. So do you have to justify the ...

K: No, he won't go beyond this.

T: He won't go beyond that?

K: No.

T: Okay. Generally speaking, how do you think Thieu is doing up to now? He's been fairly quiet in the last few weeks.

K: Well, I think if you look at it altogether, I think he's done rather well.

T: Taking that as a given, then we take his visit here in terms of projecting the kind of ... -- the relationship without American forces on the ground their economic/political terms, how the relationship will look into the future?

K: That's right. And, you know, how he visualizes the shape of his country in the years ahead.

T: All right. Okay, with that guidance, we can sort of play around with the reasons of economic aid and so forth and I guess stay out of trouble --

K: Right.

T: with you. I was worried more about anything else.

K: Good. Look I've got a European call.

T: Will you be staying in California during the entire week?

K: Yes. T: Okay, good. Thank you very much. Bye.

TELCOM

Paul Keyes/Mr. Kissinger

8:30 p.m., March 28, 1973

HK: Paul, how are you?

PK: Fine, thank you.

HK: Paul, I wanted to ask a favor of you again. I'm getting an award on April 13th by the Federal City Club, which is composed of senior officials and generally Washington big wigs. I can do the serious part of it but if you could give me 5 or 10 minutes worth of comments. I'm on the same program with Alice Longworth - you know, the daughter of Teddy Roosevelt is being given an award.

PK: All right.

HK: And I get some sort of award for -- I get the highest award they've got.

PK: Yes, I certainly hope so.

HK: And I'd be very grateful if you could come up --

PK: Let's do it this way, have someone in your office send me everything you can about it. Now I'm going to Washington on the 8th or 9th.

HK: Right.

PK: The President has appointed me as a counsellor and I'm going to produce and take charge of all the entertainment. It's going to be State Dinners and ...

HK: Oh, terrific! That's about time!

PK: Well, thank you. I did one for Bill Rogers last week with Bill Bailey and now I'm going to do these. So I will be there for the Prime Minister of --

HK: Italy.

PK: Well, that's Frank on the 17th but I'll be here also on the 10th.

HK: Oh, for the Prime Minister of Singapore.

JK: What's his name?

HK: Lee Kuan Yew.

DECEMBER 1973

Act. No. 102712
By: D. M. HARRIS 1/15/73

Paul Keyes/Mr. Kissinger

PK: Yeah. So I'll be there that week. So if you'll get me all the information, I'll do some frontwork and then I'll give you a draft when I'm there and then maybe we can back and forth over it.

HK: That would be spectacular!

PK: Okay. Now, how did the last thing work? Did you get enough?

HK: I got enough out of it to use it.

PK: Oh, good. Okay. Have somebody get this to me at my office and then I will be in touch with your office before then but I'll have something then for you.

H: That would be marvelous, Paul, and I'm delighted.

PK: Okay.

HK: Also, delighted I'll see something of you when you come.

PK: Thank you, that's very nice of you.

HK: Okay. Bye.

PK: Bye.

wgh

DECLASSIFIED

Antonly E01725f
By: HAR.Dugley