Copy No. 4

PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL

May 30, 1963

Meeting with von Hessel, May 18, 1963

This was my first private meeting with von Hessel since he assumed his pres-
ent position. The atmosphere in the Defense Ministry has become calmer, more or-
derly, less brilliant. The entourage of von Hessel is much more traditional than
the somewhat odd types, such as Col. Skhuneckle, to whom Strauss seemed attached.

I told von Hessel that his office had been the scene of many intense dis-
cussions with Strauss. Von Hessel said he was determined to avoid the controversy
which had characterised his predecessor. He saw no clash of interest or approach
between his views and those of the United States. To be sure, our notions of con-
ventional defense did not fit German realities. It would be impossible in a full
employment economy to increase the strength of the armed forces beyond the cur-
rent 520 thousand. Moreover, modernizing the equipment of even the existing
forces would require an increase in defense expenditures of between 15 and 20%.
The additional cost of the multilateral force made any increase in conventional
forces unrealistic. Von Hessel was considering, however, creating two to three
territorial divisions for local defense.

With respect to the multilateral force von Hessel said that the main
problem was to get it started. Questions of control and precise missions could
be faced later. His present view was that the requirement of unanimity would have
to be modified, but he was not yet prepared to say in what way. He also stressed
that 200 missiles fell far short of General Norstad's stated requirement of 500.
He thought that even if that figure was too high some of the additional forces
should be land-based because they could be more accurate and required smaller
warheads.

Henry A. Kissinger

PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL

Meeting with von Hassel, May 18, 1963

This was my first private meeting with von Hassel since he assumed his pre-
ent position. The atmosphere in the Defense Ministry has become calmer, more
orderly, less brilliant. The entourage of von Hassel is much more traditional then
the somewhat odd types, such as Col. Skhuneckle, to whom Strauss seemed attached.

I told von Hassel that his office had been the XXX scene of many
intense discussions with Strauss. Von Hassel said he was determined to avoid the
controversy which had characterized his predecessor. He saw no clash of interest
or approach between his views and those of the United States. To be sure, our
notions of conventional defense did not fit German realities. It would be impossible
in a full employment economy to increase the strength of the armed forces beyond
the current 520 thousand. Moreover, modernizing the equipment of even the existing
forces would require an increase in defense expenditures of between 15-20%. The
additional cost of the multilateral force made any increase in conventional forces
unrealistic. Von Hassel was considering, however, creating two to three territorial
divisions for local defense

With respect to the multilateral force von Hassel said that the main problem
was to get it started. Questions of control and precise missions could be
faced later. His present view was that the
requirement would have
to be modified, but he was not yet prepared to say in what way.
He also stated
that 200 minutes fell short of General Niedtal's
slated requirement of 500. He thought that was
the figure was the total some of the additional
forces should be land-based because they could
be more accurate and smaller overleads.