TELCONE

Mr. Hewett (PM's office, Canberra, Australia)

Mr. Kissinger

6-24-69 7:00 PM

H said his purpose in ringing is in behalf of PM. PM has considerable
problem here with feed growers - sent message yesterday about
some developments in international grains agreement. This is causing
problems on domestic front. PM tried to get message from himself
in the hands of the President and it should ax have been delivered to
HAK this morning. H asked if K had seen it and K said no.

H said on the face of it they seem to have gone ahead independently
and without reference or discussion with them. K said he will look
into it immediately and will approach with attitude of being constructive.

K said not having studied it, he cannot really say more now. K asked
about pressure and H said only so far as K's own people are pressing
it. K said he could not promise what decision will be but we will
look at it in constructive spirit.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCON

Dick Sneider
Mr. Kissinger

7:20 p. m., June 24, 1969

HAK asked, "where are you?" S replied, "at home". HAK said he appreciated the papers that S left for him.

S said let me tell you the background. Rogers is very very unhappy about some sort of directive on telegram clearance. This is an effort to work out a workable arrangement with you. This kind of working group thing. I gather Rogers has talked to the President about it. You will get the paper through normal channels. S said Rogers wants to work with you in this forum. HAK said, how does that solve his clearance problem? S said Rogers feels that if he can work things out he will not fight clearance problems with this working group. HAK asked, will he then clear the cables? S said I think he will. What he wants to do on this one is let Bill (Sullivan?) push it as far as he can, largely on political settlement business. HAK said that directive was merely a reiteration of existing procedures. S said I don't think that was the way to do it but that is your business, not mine.

S said the other piece of paper is something he left with the President. It is not intended to go out. It is the kind of thing to be discussed in the working group. HAK said, how does that differ from NSC? S said it works on more operational problems and has more flexibility. NSC does not have to have that flexibility. S said I think you ought to talk to Bill about it. S said Bill Sullivan has been asked to send it to you today. HAK asked if this was being done. S said yes.

mlh

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCONE

Joe Sisco / Mr. Kissinger

6-25-69 10:50 AM

K said when we looked over schedule it seemed to us that we should really
drop Turkey and K asked if we do that if we have to also drop Iran.
S said if you drop Turkey you have to overflight Turkey - there is no
way of getting around it. S said if you drop Iran and Turkey
it avoids Turkish problem. S said he would look at it - if both Iran and
Turkey are dropped in addition to avoiding Turkish problem, you avoid
snub to Greeks and Shah is coming here. K asked about promising
the Turks and Iranians a visit here and a xxx return visit by the
President next year. S said that will take care of it. S asked if K wanted
him to talk to the Turk and Iran on that basis. K said for S to talk to his
people - K has to go into NSC meeting. K said the more he thinks of it
that way, we will do peace in Asia, stop in Bucharest on the way back
and that will drive them up the wall (meaning the Russians). K said
Pres is willing to promise both of them a visit to their countries next year.
S said he could also put on basis that Pres has to get back sooner than
anticipated because of Kiesinger visit. K said he would check it all out
with Pres and be back to S later.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

TELCORN

John Scali
Mr. Kissinger
2:50 6-25-69

S said he needs some guidance on what Marshall Green had said
at Overseas Writers of on background to the effect that NVN have
slowed down substantially number of troops sending down the pipe line.
S asked if this was significant and wanted to get a reading on it.
S asked how long this has been going on. K said some weeks - S asked
4 weeks or six weeks or what. K said somewhat more than a month. K
said what confuses it is that it is the rainy season and we want to check to
see if it is a seasonal seasonal. That is what we are trying to watch.
K said we have interest in not having this too well known as we
do not want them to know that we know what they are sending down.
K said that S should not be too specific. S said he was not trying to be.
K said this is all on background. S asked if we had made any judgment
yet as to whether it is significant. K said we will need few more weeks
to make that judgment. S asked if there is definite slowing
down of enemy xinox initiated incidents in SVN. K said yes, in past few
days but that could be prelude to offensive which is more likely - has not
yet shown up on battlefield. S referred to previous estimate
that enemy would try to stage similar offensive and K said that there is
still reason to believe that may happen. K said past few days are no
different from other days we have had - if it is like this for two or three
weeks, could draw some conclusions. S asked if slow down in infiltration
was soon after particularly heavy infiltration. K said after
period of medium heavy infiltration. Best K can say is that is is question
mark. S said Green went on to say expected escalation of enemy activity
to take over SVN politically. S asked if that sounded like good reading.
K asked that S not attribute to WH source and S said he would not.
K said here we are just guessing, but it is possible. S said at same time
Green went on to suggest that there would not follow any real serious
negotiation in Paris until launching of similar offensive next
(summer)

S said original judgment still stands that we expect summer offensive
and if slow down of infiltration is significant we are not sure yet,
but we have noted that it has fallen off. K said right.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.0.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/64

TELCORN

Joe Sisco
Mr. Kissinger

6-25-69 3:00 PM

S said he wondered if K wanted him to do anything - they have talked
it over and it is entirely feasible to cancel and would handle in the
following way: 'In view of other commitments will have to cut down
and decided to limit to FEA FE and SEA (the subcontinent) and
therefore we are going to drop both Turkey and Iran. However, as
you know we have been trying to work out a visit for your PM (in case
of Turkey) and have December tentatively in mind and it would be the
President's intention to come and visit your country next year.'
S said with Iran - same rationale. S said he does not have final
decision out of President that he is willing to sign on Turkish PM.
K said Pres has authorized him to do this. S said in that event
he can call in these guys this afternoon. S said he would check it
out and call S back. S said he also needs o.k. on Israeli PM -
either July 14 and 15 or August.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELCORN

Secy Rogers
Mr. Kissinger
6-25-69 3:12 PM

R said he was calling about Clark Clifford situation - wanted to get
K's general attitude on it and see if there is anything we can do. R said
he saw Roberts piece. K said he said nothing like that to any Senator.
R said it is one of those things they will try to build up. R said he had
mentioned Clifford to President but could not get much of reaction.
K asked what R had in mind. R said in first place the article was written
and publication date decided upon before the May 14 speech. Secondly,
R does not think it was intended to take direct issue with the President..
R said you can construe Clifford piece and subsequent support among
Democrats as bipartisan support for President. K said he agrees and
thinks we should cool it as far as our attacks on Clifford. R said Clifford
wants to see him - said he never intended this. R said he would see him
but does not want to if President would not want him to. K said he did
not think the Pres was that mad - he was mad at question and answer
in speech where Clifford said let's drop Thieu govt but that was not
in the article. R said if Pres had said he read the article and it does
support our general thinking - difference of opinion on how to announce
it but that he welcomes this support - it would have been construed as
bipartisan support. R said he thinks he will talk to Clifford because he
has to testify and hexx can help. K said he would be glad to mention to
Pres, but R said not to. K said Pres has not indicated to him that he is
mad at Clifford. After all he was Secy of Def and what do you lose.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELECON

Justice Goldberg
Mr. Kissinger

June 25, 1969 -- 6:45 p. m.

Justice Goldberg asked K if he had been advised that he and a small U. N. Association delegation had been invited to visit the Soviet Union. They will be leaving on July 8 and will be staying for two weeks (though the Justice said he could only stay for 10 days). The Justice had told Secy Rogers (and Hal Sonnenfeldt knew) and had asked that K be advised.

The Justice said he had said he did not want to undertake this trip unless our Government thought it was a good idea. The consensus in the State Department has been that it is a good idea to go (including the Secretary and Sonnenfeldt). K said he thought it was an excellent idea. The Justice said if anything developed while there, it would be cabled to K. He felt sure he would be asked to see those officials he had seen at the U. N. -- Kosygin, Gromyko, and Kuznetsov. Likewise, if there were anything K would like for him to do, let him know through the Embassy. The Justice said any views they have will not be made known in the Soviet Union -- they will not make any specific statements.

K suggested that he should come down and receive a briefing; G said he had been briefed by the Department. K said an additional briefing by Sonnenfeldt would be indicated to give him the White House views. K asked him, when he does come down, to stop in for a few minutes to talk.

lds

DECLASSIFIED

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger
Herman Kahn

June 25, 1969 -- 8:22 p. m.

Mr. Kahn said he has plan for resolution of the SE Asia problem about which he wanted to talk with K; however, he understands he must be harrassed beyond endurance. Kahn says he has a lot more data, and that there is no opposition to the proposal by the military -- they won't do it but they won't oppose it. K asked Kahn how he (K) was going to put it over. Kahn began by explaining he felt the problem was that no one is running the war. A question has to be posed to the Joint Chiefs or to Abrams; i. e., 'Is it possible to get certain levels of security under certain conditions?' Abrams thinks we are winning the war now, according to Kahn. He then gave certain percentages of the levels of security which Abrams must achieve at certain time periods. Kahn said it does not imply, however, pulling out the American advisors.

K asked him if he had a written paper -- he can't do anything without something in hand; and, hopefully, it should be confined to 3-5 pages. After reviewing the paper, then he and Kahn could discuss how to proceed. K said no one can have a higher incentive to make this thing work. There is so much pressure of time that we don't know how to get hold of it.

Kahn asked if perhaps K had any free time tonight. K said no; but he would await the memo on Thursday.

Ids

DECLASSIFIED

*

TELECON

David Rockefeller
Mr. Kissinger

June 25, 1969, 9:42 p. m.

R called concerning the appointment w/K on July 2. They discussed the time and K suggested 7:30 p. m. and he will try not to let it slip. R said it will be held at Governor Rockefeller's Washington home on Foxhall Road. K asked if he were expected to give a talk; R said no, the guests at the dinner will outline to K certain thoughts they feel would be of interest to him. R suggested that K might bring someone with him to make notes so K won't be occupied with that task. K said he would plan to bring one person. R said if K finds out 24 hours ahead that he couldn't make it, he would appreciate a call since these people are coming in from all over for this dinner meeting. K promised he would but added that it would take something really major to keep him from attending, and he doesn't foresee any particular crisis. R said they would hope and count on it, and he felt K would find it very worthwhile. K said he looked forward to seeing him.

lds

DECLASSIFIED

Authority

E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

*

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger
Dr. Birrenbach

June 25, 1969 -- 10:07 p. m.

B asked K please not to mind his many calls, but he said he can't
leave the country without seeing K. K said he couldn't tell him how
sorry he was that he could not see him at the time arranged, but that
he was with the President. He asked B when he was leaving and B
said tomorrow afternoon. B XXX offered to cancell two appointments
with Senators if K could see him sometime in the forenoon on Thursday.
K asked him to come at 12:00 noon to his office; that he wanted to see
him -- they have been friends for so long.

lds

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger
Pete Vaky

June 25, 1969 -- 10:18 p.m.

K said he was just plowing through his daily material and wanted to tell V he thought his papers and the analysis of the Peruvian situation were first-class. V said he wants to talk to K on the Peru paper. K said he would talk to V on Friday and added that V will teach him something yet about Latin America.

lds

DECLASSIFIED