Reproduced from the open files
of the Nixon Presidential
Materials Staff

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: KHC NARA, Dated: 5/12/04

*

Telecon
Ambassador Lodge

1/12/70 9:55 a.m.

L: When I see you I want to make a suggestion, but I wanted to tell it to you today so you'd have some time to think about it. You remember the Marigold Talks in 1966? Well, in 1968 I want to see ________. LBJ gives me instructions not to continue with that line. ________ had contacts. Didn't want him to start again on his contacts in North Vietnam. In the meantime, the operation in Paris, which is foredoomed to failure because they are so public. ________ is a talent agent and he wants that rare bird a talented and dependable go-between.

K: I thought you were going to make a racial comment and say 'that rare bird--a talented and dependable Italian.'

L: Well, that's true too.

K: I met him, and share your opinion.

L: He's exceptional. You can't imagine anybody more heart and soul American. We've nothing to lose by trying this. There's no reason why we should be doomed by an error of LBJ's. He said I could talk to him, but not to go ahead. I'll be in town Monday and Tuesday and will call for an appointment.

K: Good, and I'm also looking forward to the 24th.

L: Right.

By KHC NARA, Dalo. 5/12/04

*

Telecon
Marshall Green

1/12/70 10:20 a.m.

K: I read your letter--I've been hearing noises about this Laos Committee. There seems to be some misunderstanding. I don't want to take anything away. You set up the committee to monitor operations, not to take anything away. My only concern is that intelligence remain under 303. The operational part stays under the Laos Committee as long as the attendance is restricted. I just don't want a mass meeting.

G: Well, the first meeting was big, but after that they're going to cut down the size of the meetings.

K: As far as I'm concerned, we want that committee to function.

G: You got my letter?

K: I got it; it sounds reasonable to me. I saw Laird this morning, and he said that the people at State are unhappy.

G: The only reason for unahppiness is the fear that things were going to be taken away, making the committee useless.

K: No. The basic policy guidance should remain in 303.

G: As far as intelligence...?

K: Yes, nothing else. We look at the Laos committee as a focal point for action programs. The group to which WSAG should go for contingency plans, or possible 303 for intelligence plans. And, as a favor to me, when you deal with intelligence matters that exclude CIA, keep it to a small group only.

G: Yes. You write me a chit and say this is your understanding aw to how it should function.

*

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Governor Dewey

1/12/70 10:24 a.m.

D: That date won't work; I wonder if the 23rd is possible. I
can do that and that's one Lucius can do.

K: Okay... but I don't know if I'm free for lunch that day.
I'll try to free lunch for it.

D: That's okay; I'll get somebody in the White House to buy me
lunch.

K: Let me see whether the three of us can have lunch.

D: I'll probably get there a little after 10:00.

K: I think it will turn out fine for me.

D: Good. Are there any times or dates when you would like to
come up and have ______ with us? Our times are alternate Tuesdays.

K: I can't do the 27th.

D: Friday, the 10th is the--they may be tied up for that date
but I don't think so. The opening of the new Don Carlos--will probably
be very good. Then Norma on March 10th. I find; there's somebody
I've offered two dates to--if you were free on the 10th or . . .

K: I'll have to check it.

D: Friday the 10th, or March, and I'll talk to you.

K: I hate to tie you up--my experience is that during the week
something always happens. Though I love the opera.

D: Can you know in a day or so?

K: I can know within the limits of . . .

D: Something from the boss. After the story in the Times, every-
body is going to hold you responsible for all of our foreign affairs failures.

K: I didn't see Semple, but it didn't do me any good.

D: They asked me to talk to them about Nixon. However I never give
interviews. But I'm sure it will come out wrong and give the wrong impression,
but I did my best.

By KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Dewey

1/12/70 10:27 a.m.

K: For the New York Times is was pretty good, except for the White House aide who said he wouldn't call Finch without a staff memo-- he won't be a White House aide for long.

D: It didn't really bother me.

K: Well, I'll talk to you in a day or two.

D: And now we have the 23rd clearrd?

K: Yes.

By: KHU NARA, Dato: 5/13/04

Telecon
Secretayr Laird
1/12/70 11:20 a.m.

K: About the oil import business--I think we've found a way in addition to your general objection to keep it under study for another year. In Bill's comment there's a statement that raises a lot of questions with regards to our allies and others, and calls it to question. We're making a NATO study out of it--shouldl stretch it out to another year.

L: I wanted Bill to go along with another date--he agreed to put that in his comments. I've refused to sign it.

K: Flanigan would appreciate it if you could ask for a NATO study.

L: The thought's gotta be in Bill's . . .

K: Yes, but associate yourself with it.

L: Okay.

T

Telecon
Sonnenfeldt

1/12/70 11:30 a.m.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

K: Two things: did you give Lucet hell?

S: I did--I've sent you a memo. They want to know when they
can print up the invitation cards.

K: If they give us any more problems I'm going to get is cancelled.

S: Next week we ought to give permission to bring the cards and then
another week to give it out.

K: Did you tell them we have a special problem?

S: I did, and asked that they say nothing to State, nothing to
Mosbacher.

K: What's their justification for taking it State?

S: Pompidou has a special problem...

K: Well, we'll announce it next week. Your NATO thing is
very close to what we want.

S: I'm sending a memo with two possibilities: an NSSM on the
situation of European security. There's a question whether to push NSSM 83
or make this one of 4 or 5 issues, which would be my preference.

K: I think we should have a general European policy review--
you're close to what we have--then pick 2 or 3 for another meeting.

S: If Wilson were present there would be harm in listing these issues.

K: That's what we could use that meeting for, in which case you should
be there. Where is that NATO meeting in May?

S: In Rome. I'm sending you a memo on that. The more I look at it
the less I like it. There would be only one thing to discuss--Middle East relations--
and that wouldn't be in our best interest.

K: What else could he go for?

S: The Dutch are having a celebration of the anniversary of the
sailing to Plymouth Rock.

K: You can't get the President to go for that.

By KML NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Sonnenfeldt

1/12/70 11:30 a.m.

S: Tito will be travelling to the Middle East--you could get a meeting with that. All these excuses are very artificial.

K: Well think about it. I don't want your staff to know.

S: No.

K: When is the meeting in Rome?

S: May 26 - 27 in Rome. But that's got all kinds of problems if he's going to get involved in it. Did you have a chance to look at the European Security paper?

K: I'm going to read it tomorrow on my way to Texas.

S: There are two memos: One on force reduction in NSC and one on this trip business.

K: Okay, thank you.

By K.L. NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon

Katherine Graham

1/12/70 11:50 a.m.

G: What can I do for you?

K: I couldn't just be calling out of friendship?

G: Not at 5 of 12 on Monday morning.

K: I'm calling in some despair about this Maxine Cheshire woman who won't leave me along.

G: How disgusting and irritating.

K: I've been restrained about her, but I don't know how to turn her off.

G: Give me the facts.

K: A, I don't have a social secretary, B, I've had only one secretary for everything for the last 4 months. I need 2 because my office is open from 7:30 to midnight, so I need them to overlap. When an embassy asks to speak to my social secretary we don't say he doesn't have one, we just give to whoever is handling it then. Last week, she asked to speak to Mr. Kissinger's social secretary, and a new girl said you will have to call San Clemente. The fact is Julie Pineau is a secretary--she handles everything, telephone calls, letters...

G: I'm so glad you called on this. I nearly died.

K: Since September 1, I've had only one secretary.

G: And it's this girl?

K: Yes.

G: Who is Julie Pineau?

K: She was brought in as my second girl, but since I haven't had a first for... I had a girl called Sally Dahler. She left at Thanksgiving. Julie Pineau was brought in on November 1 so... now I am bringing in a second, who is starting on Wednesday, but that is not because one is going to be a social secretary.

G: The idea is preposterous.

K: I have a girl who does social things for me. But I don't have a full time social secretary and for the last 4 months I've had only one for everything. Since my office is open from 7 to midnight I've got to have two.

*

By KHL NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Katherine Graham
1/12/70 11:50 a.m.

page 2

G: Everybody does. Who started it?

K: I haven't been able to track it down. In the column it says "A Washington party-giver was astonished to get a telephoned R. S. V. P. the other day from a White House staffer who identified herself as presidential advisor Henry Kissinger's "social secretary." I can't imagine who that could have been.

G: Well screw--it's so irritating.

K: When that girl was asked, she had never met me--she's just one of our secretarial pool.

G: I think she should correct this.

K: It makes me look like a social butterfly.

G: Should I take the names and the full story?

K: Julie Pineau, since the other girl left has been my only secretary--since Thanksgiving.

G: And she was in San Clemente. And the other one . . .

K: Sally Dahler. . .

G: And she was your number 1 girl?

K: Yes, well . . . I had Joan McCarthy, which was the number 1 girl and left in September. Then Sally Dahler who had been my number 2 girl did both between September 1 and November 1. Between November 1 and Thanksgiving Julie Pineau and Sally Dahler overlapped. Between Thanksgiving and now Julie has been alone.

G: And you're looking for another one?

K: Starting on Wednesday I have another one--her name is Diane Matthews. I need one girl full time on the telephone, and the other does everything else.

G: I know. In my own office, only one is intolerable. I'm going to have her correct this.

By: KH V NARA, Date: 5/12/04

K: I don't know Maxine Cheshire.

G: She's very hard-working We wanted her to compete with Betty Beale, but she's worked at around to this bitch stuff. This makes it almost intolerable. I will take this up with Ben instantly.

Had to go off the line, but Mr. Kissinger and Mrs. Graham made a date for Friday night for dinner at the home of Sen. and Mrs. John Sherman Cooper and for the screening of "The Meery Widow," following the dinner. Dinner will be at 7:00 at the Cooper's home, 2900 N Street, N. W., 965-2883
Black Tie. - Movie at the National Gallery of Art.]

By KHC NARA, Dalo 5/12/04

*

Telecon
David Rockefeller
1/12/70 4:00 p.m.

R: I got a letter from ________ about the report he prepared for you. He's hald himself available in case you did want anything in the near future. The report on Latin America. He needs a little guidance as to whether he should go ahead.

K: I'll get back to you by the end of this week. We are studying it with greatest care. It's a tricky problem--it's got to be done delicately.

R: I know, that will be okay. Other thing: I understand you got a letter from Violet. I'm curious whether it clarified things.

K: I thought this was the letter that . . . No it made the same point.

R: Is this the letter to Crosby?

K: Yes. I'd be glad to see Violet. It's clear that he is okay, but he gave us to understand he was doing it in relation to Pompidou, and I don't think he was. He is knowledgable and reliable, but he misled us. I get 2 types of hate mail a day: one saying get out of Vietnam, never mind what happens and two saying you god-damned bastards, why don't you protect the Jews.

R: I have no doubt that you did the right thing.

K: If we must stand, it's better to stand for something different from the Israelis. We are not going to back off of this.

R: Good. Glad to head it.

K: I appreciate what you are doing. I don't doubt that you are getting a lot of heat.

R: Yes, and it's holding up rather than subsiding.

K: Really?

R: But we're all knuckled under and we're taking the party line, which only confirms the opposite view.

K: They're very short-sighted. I don't think we have anything to be ashamed of.

R: How are you otherwise?

K: Okay.

R: I had a nice visit with Fred Bergsten. That's comign quite well.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telcon
Maxinne Cheshire

1/12/70; 5:00 p.m.

C: This is Maxinne Cheshire. I am so sorry -- did Ben Bradley tell you that two paragraphs got cut from that item on Sunday?

K: No, I haven't talked to Ben Bradley.

C: There were two more paragraphs that followed the paragraph that said, "yes, indeed, there Mr. Kissinger does have a social secretary and her name is Julie Pineau" It went on to say, "but those are not her only duties" and that she had other duties. And I asked the editor why did you cut those two paragraphs? And she said they implied something in bad taste, that her duties in addition to social ones were of a romantic nature. That is what happened. I am sorry.

K: You see, the problem -- social secretary is misleading, because somebody has to respond to invitations, but that is the most infinitesimal part. If she spends 10 minutes a day that is a lot. She is basically my secretary.

C: You see, the way it was written was that was not the case in the way it was first written. I am going to fix it tomorrow -- I am going to say implicitly that that is not all that she does.

K: But don't make it look worse now. Basically she is my secretary.

C: Is she your only secretary?

K: Since September I have not had but one secretary. Starting next week I will have two because this office is open from 7:00 a.m. until Midnight and it kills one girl to keep these hours. I have one girl who has to spend all her time answering the phone and another who spends her time answering correspondence, but mostly government -- the private mail I would think -- 10 minutes a day is just about the maximum she would be spending.

C: You see, the thing that started it -- whether it was Miss Pineau or another girl that called -- she identified herself as your social secretary, which seems would be good form as far as etiquette is concerned, but not as far as government is concerned.

By KHW NARA, Date 5/12/04

- 2 -

K: Who was that lady?

C: I assume it was Miss Pineau because she called someone back and said it was Mr. Kissinger's social secretary. Well, I called back and said I would like to speak to your social secretary and she said Miss Pineau is not here.

K: You got a girl who had just been hired to work in the Security Council pool, and I haven't even met her, and Miss Pineau was in San Clemente as my only secretary. If you could do something that makes me look less like a social butterfly I would appreciate it.

C: I know how hard you work, but you are the most fascinating man in this Administration. Please don't go into hiding.

K: If I go, you have driven me there.

C: It is incredible the amount of interest in you. Everyone -- they are as fascinated outside Washington with you as they are with the President. I am sure no Cabinet member has the glamor and appeal that you have.

K: That is my foreign accent.

C: That sounds very sexy -- I will explain it with a paragraph tomorrow that says those are not her only duties.

K: I would appreciate it if you would say those are not her "principal" duties.

C: I will, but I thought you would appreciate that --

K: I must meet you sometime.

C: I look forward to it. You have been at a couple of places where I was and always so surrounded by people that I am going to put on a long blonde wig sometime and vamp you.

K: Well, the next time we are in the same place --

C: I will come up. K: Please do. Thank you.

ms

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Gerard Smith
1/12/70 p.m.

S: Wanted to talk with you on the general subject of informing Congress of the Helsinki talks.

K: I'm against it--next question.

S: [laugh.]

K: No, I'm serious.

S: Senators Gore and Jackson have committees on this subject.

K: I like the memo you gave us--it's fine with us. Did you want us to be involved? Have the White House arrange the briefing?

S: Well, the closer we can keep this to the way it was handled in the past the better.

K: We'll arrange it and you give it.

S: All right. You're the master mind of the show. It would be helpful if you could show your position.

K: Why don't we do it the way we did it the last time? Except give a larger amount of time to you. You tell what you've done. Helms could give comments on the intelligence assessment. I could give comments on the White House attitude.

S: The more we keep it on a historical basis rather than looking forward the better.

K: Okay, then we will set it up. And your list sounds reasonable. I thought it would be a good idea and I am sure the P will agree. Can I let you know this afternoon?

S: Yes. I'm trying to avoid Senators Gore and Jackson from setting up meetings before their committees.

K: Last time there was an even amount of time for everybody... now I want you to take more of it.

S: But we can say the White House is handling the briefing?

K: Okay good. We may not be able to stick with that, but we'll try. On your note, the P may not say anything about it in the State of the Union...

By: KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Gerard Smith
1/12/70 p.m.
page 2

But if you could let me have what you want him to say. . . He is putting
out 40 or 50 pages of a philospphical paper--you send me a few pages, or
I'll give you what we have drafted and you edit it. Any arms control rele-
vant things, you'll have a chance to edit.

S: Good. Henry, would your social secretary permit you to
have lunch . . .

K: That bastard Maxine Cheshire, do you know that I have only
one secretary?

By KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

*

Telcon
Rowland Evans
1/12/70; 8:45 p. m.

K: How are you? Now you have got me taking over the Middle East.

E: I didn't say you were taking it over.... Wait until about 6 months until this thing gets into high gear. How was San Clemente?

K: It was good.

E: I don't know how bad this is for you, but is there any chance of coming to see you 20 minutes some day this week or even for breakfast. I am leaving on Monday for Cairo, Libya, Syria. I did that TV interview with Mrs. Meir, the net work is giving Colonel Nasser a chance and he accepted so I have to go and do him for an hour. I can make it any time you say except for lunch any day this week.

K: Let's say two things. One, I will definitely do it. I will try to call you tomorrow to fix a time for breakfast or in the office.

E: Breakfast is better. I find you come to breakfast fresh from your couch with a mind uncluttered with all the affairs of the world at a quarter of eight.

K: In other words, when you see me in the evening I am all fogged out. Since you introduced me to Ethel you have a special claim on me.

E: Well, she asks about you. She wants to know how you are doing.

K: What do you tell her?

E: I tell her he is running the country. If it blows up he is doing badly, if it does not he is doing well. Will you have your secretary call me or do you want me to call her.

K: I will get her to call you, Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday.

E: All right, sir. I will see you Thursday or Friday, I cannot come on Wednesday.

K: Good, Rowland.

ms

*

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Ehrlichman
1/12/70 p.m.

K: What did you do for Newsweek?

E: Cursed at them.

K: It was a friendly piece.

E: It was--I don't understand it--I've been giving them hell.

K: Weren't you pleased?

E: Yes, it turned out okay. They say he has no convictions, no ideologies--I'm a cipher.

K: It said Ehrlichman is a better clue to the Administration than Kissinger.

E: Have they redecorated your office?

K: No.

E: That's the tip-off.

K: The only thing I want to know is who are those god-damned White House aides X with whom they closed your piece and Times said the P is afraid to call Finch on the debut of his daughter without a staff memo?

E: I think that's a euphemism. How are things otherwise?

K: Okay. The Secretary of State was outraged because the P got the credit for Biafra. McClosky said he should get the credit. I said I think you are wrong.

E: Arthur Burns and his economics mafia are trying to log 3.5 billion out of the budget. Romney saw the P said he'd take a 5% cut and that the other cabinet members would too.

K: We can't do it. Incidentally Dewey said he thought we were going to have the worst inflation ever--said he wants to see you. He is coming on January 23--I'm going to have lunch with him and Flanigan--Why don't you join?

E: Fine, that's the 23rd?

K: Yes, put it down.

By KHC NARA, Dalo 5/12/04

*

Telecon
Ambassador Dobrynin
1/13/70 7:55 p.m.

D: Welcome back.

K: Where was I?

D: According to some information I had from [?] you were somewhere not far from the wonderful country, Mexico.

K: I just want to know whether you have your own spies following me or if you heard that from my office.

D: We have a satellite in the sky which follows you.

K: Between your satellite and your wire taps in my office you don't miss anything.

D: It's a wonderful indication when Henry is out of town. I know everything is well right.

K: I visited our former President--just for the day.

D: You see, my information was pretty good. The reply requested about cosmonauts, my government has just sent a full answer. They asked me to tell you, their answer is: The time period of the planned voyage abroad of the American astronauts during which they would like to visit the Soviet Union is at the moment inconvenient because of a number of circumstances. But we are prepared to . . . [couldn't understand]. This is the answer they asked me to convey to you and to the President.

K: Okay. It will never have had a formal status as far as we are concerned.

D: On the second part, they asked me to say we are prepared to return to this question later. Two whole answers: first and second.

K: We won't mention anything to the press about the first part and the second when you are ready.

D: This only for your own information.

K: No, as far as we are concerned, the issue wasn't raised. And we will ask accordingly.

D: Good. As the for the ______ question, we will discuss it with you later.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon

Dobrynin
1/13/70 7:55 p.m.

page 2

K: They have given you questions?

D: Not now--but at a later stage.

K: When you are ready will you call me?

D: Of course, and I will come to you.

K: You call me when you are ready to discuss these other issues.

D: Yes, and if you want to discuss anything, you come to me.

K: We might consider what we discussed. That we discuss one item at a time.

D: Yes, good.

K: XXXIX I will wait for you.

D: There is a song, "I will Wait For You." Very nice one.

K: You see, you are the swinger.

D: Before I never read the social columns, but now my secretary brings them to me. I see about Henry has a social secretary.

K: That's right.

D: Good, we will be in touch in the near future.

By KHC NARA, Dalo 5/12/04

*

Telecon
Ehrlichman

1/13/70 8:30 p.m.

K: President Johnson thinks we are screwing the military. He doesn't see how we can get 5 billion out of his budget. He went over it--would have loved to get it out. He said something is wrong.

E: Very interesting.

K: Laird was in here in great agitation. He said I had left him and wasn't there when important things were going on. What happened?

E: The P had a budget meeting--took a big bite.

K: In front of everyone.

E: No, just in front of Schultz, Harlow and me.

K: If I had known I wouldn't have gone.

E: Nobody knew--it was a complete surprise. The P protected you.

K: I'm not worried about him protecting me; I'm worried about protecting him. What did he take?

E: Nothing, he just made some suggestions. He told Laird to come back tomorrow. He said he knew Laird would want to talk it over with Henry, so why didn't he sleep on it. He made suggestions about saving the pay raise, letting ______ slip into next year.

K: I better call him and tell him what happened.

E: He's been calling me every 6 minutes, reading the Evening Star.

K: What's new?

E: He's just discovered the Jablonski murder.

K: What does he think about that?

E: He doesn't like the United Mine Workers. And Tom Paine made a statement the P didn't like, which he will regret to the tune of $__________

K: What did he say?

E: He talked about the great lunge forward into the beyond

By: KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELECON
Mr. Kissinger
The President
1/13/70; 8:50 p.m.

K said Mr. President, I wanted to report about my trip -- I got back about one hour ago. K said he (LBJ) was in a more benign mood this time and said he had to confess something. K said that LBJ had to confess that re foreign policy things were a lot better now than they were when he left office. K said LBJ was worried about the Defense budget. K said LBJ didn't have any specific reasons but he went over his Defense budget with great care and was proud when he could cut $5 billion out of it. K said LBJ thought K should impress upon the President that somewhere along the line somebody will have to pay for it. P said we, on the Defense budget, can move in a certain direction now but have to be prepared to move in other directions later. P said we have a difficult problem now that could destroy everything. P said we have to make it credible. K said he told LBJ that we had set up a Defense Review Group Committee and to the best of K's knowledge he didn't see where we cut anything that would hurt us. P said I think we have to put more in authorization and less in appropriation. P said he had Laird in and asked what we could cut. P said Laird said Safeguard. P said Laird said he can't do too much because it involves our bargaining position. P said I told Laird to discuss this with you or Harlow in the morning. P said the whole question is whether it could be done in a way that is really credible due to the fact that we really don't know what to do. P said but under no circumstances can we take away our bargaining card. P said Laird said that in the Cabinet meeting today and that Laird is very strong on the issue. K said maybe we can cancel F-111. P said but then Laird says he wants to buy other planes. K said I will go over it with him. K said Laird called him but he has not been able to reach him. P said keep in mind that national security comes first. K said he was very strong to President Johnson about that and LBJ said he wanted the President to know that he had great confidence in him. K said LBJ said P should have more confidence in his instincts and K said he didn't have any. P said not in advisors (?). K said I told LBJ that no one is less affected by the press than you are. P said the main thing is how we handle the inflation problem. P said he would like to put in larger authorizations and smaller appropriations. K said Haig was over there to talk to the Generals and he (Haig) has never seen them in a more rebellious mood -- they think that Laird tricked them. P said let me say this -- just do what you can but no more. P said you, & Harlow talk to Laird but don't let Laird do more than he ought to do. P said

*

By: KHC NARA, Date: 5/12/04

he excluded Defense from the budget process today. P said one area I think we could do more with is in regard to Helms -- intelligence -- NSA and CIA. P said we are not getting much out of it. P said he thought we could cut it by $3 or $4 million without too much trouble. K said NSA is probably hard to cut but we can with CIA. K said we could cut evaluation(?). P said don't overlook the intelligence thing in Defense. Laird doesn't want to cut that but it doesn't help us any.

They then turned to Middle East and President Johnson

K said LBJ was a statesman that we got involved in the details of the negotiations. K said I told him you had us put our position on the table but you could keep close rein on it. K said otherwise LBJ said he was in complete support of you. K said LBJ was in a better frame of mind than in any of the previous times. K said LBJ said he was delighted with what P was doing in Vietnam. K said LBJ said he didn't like P's Nov. 3rd speech at first but that he recognizes that it was a major event. P said after all we were taking off on him. K said he bet Humphrey would have disassociated himself from him (LBJ) a lot more over the period of time(?). K said I think this briefing is good. P said yes, and he is a patriot.

K said Dobrynin called about the astronaut visit and they checked their calendar and found this was an inopportune time in February. K said Dobrynin would be willing to reopen it on some other time. K said Dobrynin said he would soon be in touch with him on the other matter and about regular meetings(?). K said I think we still have enough time on this to play it cool. P said don't play eager -- you have a lot of time. K said if we wanted to needle Dobrynin we could send the astronauts to Romania. P said why don't we send them to Romania -- first check to see if they will take them. P said let's send them to Romania on general principles. P said nothing will keep them in shape more than a tough line. P said just call Dobrynin and say we wanted to offer them (Soviets) first chance but we are sending them to Romania now.

Reproduced from the open files
of the Nixon presidential
Materials Staff

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

*

Telecon
Elliot Richardson
1/13/70 9:10 p.m.

K: Where are you?

R: Where do you think?

K: I want to make sure all of our senior officials are at their
posts--we might decide to hold a press conference.

R: I'm right here.

K: May I tell you, between you and me, the classic remark from
your Mr. McCloskey? He called Ziegler and said 'what's going on here? The
White House is getting all the credit.' [Laughter] We are not going to send
him a copy of the Constitution.

R: We should also get a cut on the campaign funds. Interesting.

K: I've been talking to Roger Morris. Our concern is the obvious
one we discussed on Sunday. Not only to do something, but to show we are doing
something. He mentioned a report of health officials saying the stocks of food
are less than indicated. There are two things we might do: Newsome might
give this report to Gowan and we might move some of those C-132s into
Dahomey with hospitals and other medical equipment, so, assuming they will
let them in, we can move them fast. And we are not going to announce it if
it's done.

[Laughter]

R: Really, when I left here, we left a contingency guidance for
queeries. It turned into a formal briefing on very short notice. On those two
particulars, what we have is a question of how you strike a balance between ap-
pearing to do something and trying to assure that we will be able to help when
the time comes, as opposed to risking... We got two cables from Newsome:
one on his talk with Gowan.

K: Yes, I saw that one. He says there is no need.

R: He says that not only is there no need. He says it will take a
while to determine the full scope of the need. What strikes me as a problem
with calling awareness... help being made available to them through (?) Nigerians.

K: That's not in question any more. But that would not be
jeopardized by moving the things closer. I don't suggest we move anything
against their wishes, but by moving it to the closest possible airport we could
achieve our objectives. Could you follow that up?

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Richardson
page 2

R: Yes, first thing tomorrow.

K: I am having my staff call around the Department for our
first daily report to the President.

R: I hope you'll share it with me so I will know who's getting
ahead of me.

K: Right. The hell with history, let's worry about what the
New York Times will say tomorrow.

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/12/04

Telecon
Katherine Graham
1/13/70 a.m.

K: I think this Maxine Cheshire contretemps has handled very delicately and I am grateful. It was done in a graceful way, and in a very decent way. I know you have other things on your mind.

G: But how about you kid?

K: What?

G: You have other things on your mind too.

K: Well, when I start making speeches about irresponsible journalism, you will know what drove me to it. I'm kidding!

G: I'm just devastated about this. I think we should have done this before.

K: It looks now as if I can make it on Friday. I'll pick you up.

G: Why don't I just meet you there?

K: No, I'll do it right.

G: No, that's absurd.

K: Let me at least think I'm going to try to get you. If I can be there around 7:00 that would be all right?

G: Yes, that would be fine. But I think you're trying to compensate.

K: Didn't I say that I was regretting it had been so long since I'd seen you?

G: This is devine, but...

K: You ask Missy Chandler...

G: Well, I think I own you much more than that apology... I think you are making too much of an effort.

K: I want to do it.

By KHC NARA, Dato. 5/12/04

*

Telecon
Meg Greenfield
1/13/70 p.m.

G: I want to invite you to a party.

K: In that sultry voice there's no telling what you'll do it me.

G: I never believed that Social Secretary story, so I'm coming
right to you.

K: I've only got one secretary. Who is Maxine Cheshire?

G: You've never met her?

K: No.

G: Well, you won't meet her at my house.

K: I have had one secretary for the last 4 months. I don't even
have the 2 I'm entitled to.

G: __________ is coming to town--I'm having a supper.

K: Where?

G: At my place. 2909 Olive Street in Georgetown.

K: I can't keep moving with that Georgetown set. My boss doesn't
like it.

G: 'It's your type of Georgetown--your gang. It's not . . .

K: I like the irresponsible ones humanly. That's my problem; I
can't associate with the ones I like.

G: Your boss can't think of what the last P did.

K: What time?

G: 4 - 7, Sunday, late afternoon.

K: I will try my best. And if I miss this, give me another chance.

G: SHOXX sure will. Are you going to be around? Any chance to
talk about ABMish things?

K: Certainly. As long as you promise to be for it. I'm around; the
reason that I'm not seen is I'm unbelievable busy.

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/12/04

Telecon
Walt Rostow
1/13/70 p.m.

R: Two things: first, you asked me for a piece of paper. I will have it for you tomorrow if we see one another. Otherwise I'll bring it along.

K: I don't know if the President (Johnson) will trust you--
I do, but I don't know if you will be there. No, I'm joking--did you every
find out about the rumor that he doesn't like to be briefed by other than
the x cabinet people.

R: That's absolute nonsense--he's delighted that you are coming.
I'm not going to show this paper to him, it's totally personal.

K: I won't mention it to him.

R: I told him I might be doing it--but he shouldn't be brought in.

K: I'll leave it up to you. No person has as much compassion for
a President as a former President. I don't mind his seeing it--but you suit
yourself. I will take it as a Walt Rostow paper, not as a Presidential paper.
But I won't object if you want to show it to him.

R: I'm coming to Washington Wednesday=

K: Why don't you ride back with me?

R: When are you going back?

K: Tuesday afternoon--I may not talk to you much.

R: No, I've got to work at my office Tuesday afternoon. I better
keep my reservation.

K: Well, consider yourself invited.

R: I'm supposed to be at the Foreign Scholarship Advisory Board
meeting, but if I can help you . . .

K: I'll have somethings put together for you. You tell me if I'm
leaving something out.

R: I'm more and more convinced we better keep an eye on Laos.
If I were in their position with their prospects not too good and their side
weakening . . .

*

By KLC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Rostow
1/13/70

page 2

K: I have some people doing reports--they are showing that
maligned as you were in 1968, you were right.

R: I know that. History will show that.

K: Will the President be interested in seeing that?

R: Yes, he'd like to see that.

K: I'll bring it with me.

R: Good.

K: Is he seeing me at the ranch or at Austin?

R: I don't know.

K: My impression is that I'm coming into the ranch. I may see
you tomorrow, if not I'll see you in Washington.

R: Good. I'll let you know some day the issue on which you have to
mend your fences with us.

K: No tell me how.

R: Ellspeth thought your remarks about being exiled to Arizona--she
thought that was not right.

K: That was not a crack at you.

R: Right. She thinks you shouldn't worry about Arizona--it's a good
place if necessary.

K: I said it at a party; it was meant to be a sarcastic remark. I love
Arizona. In fact my desire to go back to Cambridge is practically zero. There's
a smugness and self-righteousness . . .

R: And a terrible insecurity--I find Arthur in a terrible position. He's
trying to appease these kids, but they don't stand for anything.

K: Yes, the 1930 liberal is better by far with these kids than you or I.
I've talked with them

By KHL NARA, Date 5/13/04

Rostow
1/13/70

page 3

R: Another thing about the American Historical thing--after it was over they spent 3/4 of an hour talking to me. They found somebody who stood for something. I was cheerful...

K: What this country is dying for is people with some conviction. It drives the kids crazy--people who've taken the clock apart and say they can't put it back together again.

R: Right. See you tomorrow.

K: Good.

*

By KCLW NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Secretary Rogers
1/14/70 11:03 a.m.

K: Something I just learned about--about your being away when the Brandt visit is scheduled. I don't know whether you objected. I would like to accommodate you. Can you check whether there is any flexibility about your departure?

R: When he is scheduled to come?

K: He is scheduled to come from the 6th to the 8th. We had been looking for a time for him in March or April, but they suggested these dates as the only possible ones for him between March and May. Now I learn that you might be leaving for SEATO.

R: Let me check; I haven't firmed that up.

K: It would be easiest for . . . if you could be here the first day . . . Nothing world-shaking ever happens on the second.

R: Let me see. The P said he'd like to have me go to Vietnam about the same time.

K: Good idea.

R: With Mel going there, and then with my going there, it shows an active continuing interest . . .

K: Yes. Good idea. Rusk never did make it over there.

R: I may take Fulbright with me.

K: I noticed he's working away at Agnew.

R: I'm trying to maintain close relations with him. I'm just not going to let him fight with me.

K: Good. He needs a good fight to get attention. I think that's a good idea.

R: I called him the told him how important his ideas are to the Administration, little things like that. I think if Vietnam shapes up better . . . He's been pretty good.

K: Thanks. There's nothing like the bitterness there was in the previous Administration. He's been quite restrained. And he hasn't harrassed you at hearings.

*

By KHC U

NARA, Dated 5/12/04

R: Not at all--and he's let us take everything we wanted to out of the Vietnam hearings.

K: Well, we won't do anything on the Brandt visit that you are not comfortable with. I hate to go back to him, but if there's no other way to do it, we are prepared to do it.

R: It would be easiest for me to change my dates. I'll let you know.

Secretary Rogers
1/14/70 1:05 p.m.

R: I've checked and this Southeast Asia thing is pretty firm. How did it get off the track?

K: I don't know. It was handled by the wrong procedure. The Germans gave us some dates; these were checked against the P's calendar. I don't know how it happened. The Germans came in with 6 - 11 as the only possible dates on Brandt's calendar. And 7 and 8 were the only possible ones on the P's calendar.

R: We ought to be . . . on these things . . . there's nothing secret about them.

K: No, I've given instructions this morning that from now on your calendar will always be checked concurrently with the P's.

R: Rush didn't know either.

K: He's got to have known. There was no intentional desire to keep anyone out of it. It was something that slipped by as a secheduling snafe.

R: Let's check it out. I have only talked with Marshall Green about SEATO.

K: The reason I suggested putting off your departure if possible is that that's the easiest thing to do. But it's not the only thing to do. If it's not possible we will figure out a way of doing it. It's not an issue; we will

By: KHC NARA, Date: 5/12/04

Telecon
Secretary Rogers
1/14/70 1:05 p.m.

page 3

solve it. How long will you be gone?

R: I'll check. Got to have a ________ meeting. I thought we could have that in Vietnam. It's possible that I could speed up my return.

K: Why don't you ask look at your schedule. The only problem is that we changed Kiesinger 3 times.

R: Yes. On Nigeria, you might tell the P I'm toying with the idea of stopping there on the way back. I didn't before because of the war, but if I'm right there . . . I'm just toying with it. You might check it out.

K: I have no sense at all on the P's thoughts on that. I'll check it out and if there's any problem be back to you.

R: Okay.

By KHL NARA, Dato. S/12/04

K: Good idea.

K: That's nothing like the bitterness there was in the previous Administration. He's been quite restrained. And he hasn't harrassed you at hearings.

*

By KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

R: Not al all--and he's let us take everything we wanted to out of the Vietnam hearings.

R: Rush didn't know either.

K: He's got to have known. There was no intentional desire to keep anyone out of it. It was something that slipped by as a secheduling snafu.

By: KHC NARA, Date: 5/12/04

page 3

R: Okay.

By: KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELECON

Secretary Packard

8:25 p.m., January 14, 1970

K said he had just talked to the President -- he may be willing to go along with that cut as long as K can find $200 million out of some other agencies. K will proceed with this; he may have to come back to Packard, but he will try to avoid it. Packard said he knew K would do the best he could.

8:50 p.m. -- subsequent call to Packard

K asked Packard, if he wanted to try to get some money out of the NSA or Army Security Agency budgets, should he talk to Packard -- did those agencies come under Packard's jurisdiction? Packard said yes; they have some money in DOD's program. However, he didn't think any large amounts would be obtainable -- ASA and NSA are all part of the DOD budget. K said that didn't help him any. Most of the agencies K was given to investigate for possible money are under Packard's jurisdiction. Packard said DOD had come up with the previous budget review and made cuts across the board. K said he might have to take the position that if they want to do this, then they are just going to have to order it. K said he might have to whack Packard a little more to show we are trying -- though he knows it would be painful. Packard suggested that K go ahead and cover the rest of his territory; Packard would take a double-check; and they could talk further on Thursday morning. Packard said they would see what DOD can do to help on this. K and Packard agreed to meet after the DPRC on Thursday.

lds

By KHL NARA, Dated 5/12/04

TELECON

8:30 p.m., January 14, 1970

Director Helms

K told Helms he had just been given a chore to be accomplished by Thursday noon -- to get some of Helms' money out of him. He wondered how it could be done in the least painful way. Helms asked how K wanted him to go at this. K said he didn't know what Helms has altogether. K said he knew what he needed as a total sum which he must get from three agencies -- he had already taken a pretty big whack out of one. H asked if this were the 1971 budget, and K said yes -- it was not this year's.

In response to K's query, Helms said he would be attending the DPRC meeting on Thursday. He would get some figures together in the meantime and perhaps they could meet either before or after the meeting. K said he would outline what he had done elsewhere. They agreed to meet at 9:30 a.m., on Thursday, January 15.

lds

By: KHLW NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELECON

Secretary Packard

8:25 p.m., January 14, 1970

lds

By: KN V NARA, Date: 5/12/04

*

Telecon
Secretary Packard
1/14/70 a.m.

K: You and I are supposed to work something out on the pressures for more cuts.

P: I talked with Mel last night...

K: So did I.

P: I'm taking a new look at things.

K: When will you be ready?

P: I hope to have a first estimate today. You need an answer tomorrow morning?

K: Yes, and I don't want anything done till the P gets a crack at it. The Poseidon stretch-out is a fairly big item.

P: We can look at a lot of things, including some small things.

K: Well, that wouldn't be a bad idea. If we could squeeze out here and there a number of small things, and one big one. On Safeguard, we can't do it. . . every argument against Phase 1 applies to Phase 2 too.

P: We've tried to level off spending on Phase 2. Now it's at 1977 at the earliest, probably 78. It's almost cut the heart out of the program.

K: About Phase 2, supposing we did only site-acquisition (?) and R&D, would we save anything?

P: . . . a saving of about one hundred million.

K: Including R & D? . . . It would probably be less, wouldn't it?

P: No, R & D is over and above that. We had that in the schedule. I just brought that in so we have the whole thing as a visible package.

K: That, in effect cancels Phase 2?

P: The difficulty is in keeping up the production base. We can't move in that direction, but it will put another year or year and a

By: KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Packard
page 2

half in the date to have the system ready.

K: I think the best procedure is for you to review the budget. You come over and you and I will go over it. What time will you be ready?

P: Late this afternoon. I'm going to be there for the Vietnam Special Studies Group.

K: After that?

P: We'll try to talk for a few minutes after that meeting.

K: Okay, if you could give me a few choices. I'm here to help you, not to squeeze you.

P: Mel thought that 80 - 100 million would be deducted, right?

K: That's what I said to somebody this morning, and they are now talking about 5 - 6 hundred million. I think . . . this is a hell of a way to make a decision. But ask for 6, if I could go to the P with 2. If I say 80 - 100 . . .

P: I think so too.

K: Anything between 2 and 3 would help.

P: I'll have as much as I can after the meeting this afternoon.

By: KHC NARA, Dato. S/13/04

Telecon
Henderson Ehrlichman
1/14/70 p.m.

K: On the February 7 - 8 thing. I could do this, but there's one sensitive thing the P may want me to do. I could do it from the 15th to the 30th . . .

E: Let's slip to after that.

K: Let's slip it by 2 weeks.

E: At least 2 weeks - to the end of February.

K: Yes, the later the better. Now on the Defense budget--they were cut more than anyone. They've really taken a toll on shellacking. I spent an hour with Packard and Wheeler. If it's any more it means force cuts, and I can't see how we can do that.

E: I can't be very intelligent on this.

K: If I could get a full doctrinal study . . . We've nickled and dimed this thing . . . And now what has happened to the Navy . . .

E: Well, it's not a very good Navy.

K: No, but we're not going to be improving it this way.

E: You don't want to let him loose in the Navy Yard do you?

K: No.

E: I can't say this is good or bad. It's just that ishas got to be done in the two hundred lever. Everybody has to meet their mark.

K: This is the minimum--they's 12 billion below what Clifford would have put in.

E: Without inflation.

K: Yes.

E: But everyone knows that DOD has been getting too much.

K: But they won't know that in 1973 with the Middle East blowing up.

E: In a couple of weeks I'm going to sit down and write my internal revenue check and you guys are going to dribble it away somewhere.

K: We are in very sad shape.

*

By: KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Ehrlichman
1/14/70 p. m.

page 2

E: The P said to Laird, get me 5 hundred million dollars--you are the Secretary of Defense--I'm going to leave it up to you. Xofax You and Laird have got to ask yourselves are we settling a claim with this or...

K: It is my honest opinion that we have gone over the line.

E: Okay, but the first time the P goes to the Pentagon for lunch and 29 mess boys serve him and every Admiral who comes up brings his military aide, and they're served off of silver, he is going to wonder.

K: I'd rather run the risk that he's served by extra mess boys then lacking a ship. I think the Defense budget is below the tolerable lever right this minute. The addition of 3 hundred can be done. I do not like the Defense budget this year in the interest of national security.

E: I don't stand between you and the P on this; you should tell him.

K: If he tells me 5 or 6 hundred I'll get it for him, but it will then mean knocking out a carrier.

E: I think you should talk to him.

K: I've been ordered hot to.

E: So have I. I won't talk with him before tomorrow afternoon.

K: Well, the next time I eat off silver plates at the Department of the Interior, you'll hear from me.

E: He took it away from me this morning. He's looking to you to produce.

K: You bastard, I've produced.

E: You have your Secretary Rogers calling me?

K: I don't know.

E: He's probably going to berate me about McClintock.

K: Don't let him sell you McClintock. He wants to sell him for Venezuela.

*

Telecon
Heldeman
1/14/70 p.m.

By KHU NARA, Dalo 5/12/70

H: The P says he couldn't care if he never saw you again.

K: Okay.

H: He's tired of all the pulling and tugging and silly talk about
wars and bombs.

K: That forces me to take one hundred million away from him.

H: No, he's going through his yogi or whatever he does to get
himself geared up to go to work. If you have something on budget he
wants you to go to John. If there's anything you have to talk about,
he wants to talk on the phone at 5:30.

K: Well, there are two things he must know--on a message from
Pompidou. For your information, the French have made a huge arms
deal with Libya. It's clearly for Egypt. And there's one other item
having to do with Vietnam.

H: There's nothing on a decision basis you should talk about.

K: The budget thing I will have settled by 5:30.

H: What he wants is that we just don't interrupt him at all until
he emerges at mid-day when he comes out for air and asks 'what's
happening.'

K: Well, if it's between mid-day tomorrow and 5:30 today, leave
him alone. I have two items--one on Vietnam and one on the Middle East
thing--I think he should know. If he reached a breaking point in his think-
ing and wants to talk, I'll tell him these things.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Rogers
1/14/70 p.m.

K: On the trip to Nigeria--the P feels you should keep in mind if there's a
relief impasse that you don't seem to be laying on hands, if there is widespread
starvation. You should keep that in mind.

R: Okay.

K: Second, Lucet came in today with a personal message from Pompidou.
We are not supposed to tell anyone but there's nothing we can do with it. The
airplane deal with Libya is much larger than we thought. It's one of the most
irresponsible things you can imagine. It's like when ________ told DeGaulle
about the Cuban crisis, he asked 'are you consulting or informing me?' He
said at least we will find out whether air battles are won by superior planes
or pilots--the French planes fighting each other. We are not supposed to
know--I don't think you should tell Sisco. It was a personal message from
Pompidou to the P. We are not doing anything. Anything that would be done
would come from State, but I just wanted you to know.

R: Okay, thank you.

By KML NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELECON

Secretary Laird

9:38 a.m., January 15, 1970

Secretary Laird said he thought he had better return from his current trip to talk with the President about this other budget cut. DOD has pressed hard to get another $300 million; he thinks it's gone too far national security-wise to ask for $200 million more. K asked if Laird were objecting to the $300 million or anything beyond that. L repeated they had pushed hard to get the $300 million -- they cut back DIA, NSA, etc., and now another $200 million cut is wanted in his agencies. K said L need not return; he would carry L's message and call him back only if he is needed.

L said he doesn't think the impact nationally of the March announcements is understood -- the international impact also, all coming at one time. K told L he had been told to produce another $600 million. He had sat with Packard on Xmas Wednesday; they scratched and came up with $300 million. Then K was told by the President he had to get an additional $200 million out of the agencies, -- NSA, CIA and DIA. L asked K if the President knew what DOD had done so far. They haven't hit CIA yet except to cut $12.5 million out of them.

L asked K if he should call the President on this. K said the President is at Camp David working on his State of the Union Message and has allocated only two hours each day for phone calls. K said he could not even reach him now but would at the proper time pass L's message. K said further that he had told the President last night the national security budget is different from HEW's budget for example; that when we become convinced our national security is in danger, the President will have to issue an order. K said he was not going to blackmail the various people, and asked L what he had cut from NSA. L said they had given them tough fiscal guidance and took another whack of about 5 per cent (the first fiscal guidance had been in the neighborhood of 7 per cent). K asked if there were anything between the $240 million and what L is already doing. L said Poseiden could be slowed down -- you could go to the four-boat rate, but this doesn't save as much as shown. L said he would have Dave Packard bring a chart for his discussion with K. K said he and Packard would look at that one area and would not go beyond it.

In response to K's query, L said he had gone on this trip to address the Chamber of Commerce dinner in Pasadena on aerospace and national security. On Friday, he meets with the Junior Chamber of Commerce. K told L not to come back -- he will see whether he

By KHU NARA, Dato 5/12/04

- 2 -

can do this for L. If he needs him, he will call him to come back. K said we couldn't ask Laird for any more -- he is persuaded of that. L said if he were asked, he could stretch the additional $200 million on Safeguard; he could slow down Poseidon -- but he doesn't think this is the time to do this. They are the only things in the strategic area. K added it would hurt us on SALT. K mentioned that when he had seen LBJ on Tuesday, LBJ said this Administration has cut $11 billion out of his budget, and he couldn't imagine where it could come from without endangering the national security. L mentioned also that he doesn't know where the money for the April pay increase would come from. K said in conclusions that Laird had gotten the JCS to submit an honest budget which is more than McNamara had done. If the JCS gets the feeling they are being clobbered on top of it, we'll never get another honest budget again.

K repeated that he would talk with the President when he is free -- he will tell him that Laird will not agree to anything else and that he (K) agrees with him.

lds

By KLW NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Ambassador Lucet
1/15/70 10:30 a.m.

K: I was going to shoot you last week; it's a lucky thing you were in Paris.

L: Thank you for arranging it.

K: But you nearly killed it by going to people I told you not to go to.

L: I am sorry.

K: It's all right. But it's a purely personal matter, and I had to handle it personally. You will get an official answer next week through the proper channels. Can you tell me what you want to see me about?

L: I have an urgent message for the President from my President regarding the Middle East. When can I come in to see you? I have urgent instructions to come and see you as soon as possible.

K: Will 12:30 be okay?

L: Yes.

K: It won't take more than half an hour will it?

L: No.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELCON
?/Kissinger
10:30 am 1/16/70

K: ... on speech where he wanted me to write what I particularly liked.

?: 2B. Me too.

K: 9th

?: That's the last one he did, except those noted on 21st.

K: There's a lot of stuff but nothing particularly striking. There's no unifying theme and tone.

?: Mark the useful passages.

K: Requires substantive judgement.

?: I will send currier up at 6:00

K: OK. Again thought, there are no striking [illegible] passages

?: There are things I find useful.

K: My comment to him on Saturday was he is singular when he says how clear things are.

?: Didn't talk about what's wrong but what's good.

K: I agree

?: I crossed off problems and all that

K: That's fine. I don't like the President saying we have no frontiers but are living in the old ones. When we are going to the moon, we have new frontiers.

?: There is some positive stuff.

K: I agree with many specifics but it needs an integrating theme.

By: KHC NARA, Date: 5/12/04

Telcon
Secy Rogers
1/15/70; 12:35 p.m.

R: A couple of my assistants were in there yesterday when we were talking, so that was why I was guarded about the French thing. That is sort of discouraging.

K: It is awful. He was giving it to us in such a way -- a personal message from Pompidou to the President. Strictly personal. Nothing to be done about it. Their argument was that the Russians would supply these things if they did not. I told him if the information was going to be helpful they should tell us how they break down. They are not only Mirages; some are reconnaissance planes. You just know the Libyans have no conceivable use for them.

R: Of course not. The argument it would be better to have France there than the Russians makes some sense. Obviously not all for the use of Libya; they could never fly that many planes. They don't need anything like it.

K: It is a pressure on Tunisia. I think we should talk to Pompidou when he is here.

R: By all means. Furthermore it is contrary to what Schumann told Shriver -- that they would keep us fully advised and consult with us.

K: I called Lucet's attention to that. He gave me some double talk about Schumann not knowing exactly how many were involved; that Shriver saw Schumann Tuesday and Thursday, and they made their decision on Friday.

R: Did he say over what period of times?

K: By 1974. Only four delivered this year, and so many things may happen not all of them may be delivered. I think it is an irresponsible thing to do because the Israelis are going to get wind of this.

R: It is impossible to keep it tight. What concerns me particularly is going to make our relations with them very strained. We were off to a pretty good start with the French and this is going to make it difficult. There is nothing we can do except show our displeasure.

K: If they had sold 25 Mirages it would have been understandable, but when you go to 100 it is a very thin veneer. You know it isn't for Libya. They say they will get a commitment these planes can't

By: KHC NARA, Date: 5/12/04

leave Libya. They are more likely based in Libya than in Egypt. They have to be flown by Egyptian pilots. They don't have enough.

R: That is going to make the Pompidou visit very cloudy.

K: They are trying to keep it very tight. They say Schumann doesn't know that we know and that they implored me to keep this only to the President.

R: I think we want to be careful about not pretending pretending we know all about it. Our own credibility is going to be -- I will have to say -- I will be asked and I will say we have been advised that we will be told about any such thing. At the moment we don't know all the details.

K: Well, this is true.

R: This makes our policy more difficult to support now because it confirms some of the suspicions that Israel had about France.

K: It makes the question harder to argue that the Four Power forum is a fair forum.

R: It makes it difficult for us to not proceed to get more aid to Israel in a military way.

K: We will be in very tough shape now. You recall what the President said to Golda Meir when she was here.

R: There is nothing we can do about it.

K: I just took the information; I did not argue with him at all. I said very coldly, "you are not consulting us; you are informing us." Then I made the sarcastic statement, we will see whether it is pilots or equipment that will determine things.

R: He didn't see the President, did he? He would have collapsed if he had seen the President, he is so nervous. Did you hear the story about the message the Egyptians sent to Moscow? The Egyptians sent a cable to Moscow saying the Israelis are massed on our border. They got no reply. Then they sent another message: Help, help, the Israelis

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELCON
Cousins/Kissinger

4:20 pm 1/15/70

C: This could be fine hour for the U.S.

K: Right

C: This is an opportunity to get at historical America, to unite the country. Could be done with blacks in this country too. Use imagination and involve both the public and private sector. Would suggest that when we see opportunity that the President convene private conference of heads of network and other media, foundations, peace corps, and army engineers to plan attack on problem. This could be even bigger than Hoover's plan after WWI. It should be combined rather than separate groups.

K: What should conference do?

C: Put challenge to media and relief agencies. Intensify the problem. Make clear what Government willing to do through peace corps and army engineers and ask them to join in effort. Would require about $50,000,000.

K: Would Gowon let anything in?

C: The President could get Gowon to say yes. The French can't do anything but the British are doing quite a bit.

K: Should we do it in this way? Make it post-war reparations rather than relief?

C: Yes.

K: How would conference work in with Biafra?

C: Following invitation or agreement with Lagos.

K: When do you think we should call the conference?

C: 4-10 days from now.

K: I am convinced that we must make strong evaluation of moral concern and not just diplomatic problem. We can't just let these people die. The President agrees.

By: KML NARA, Dato 5/12/04

-2-

Cousins/Kissinger

1/15/70

C: Right

K: We have spent the better part of the day trying to find some mechanism to do this. Send me a telegram or letter, something quickly, with names of participants.

C: I would be willing to take a leave of absence to devote my full time to this. I've had past experience at this sort of thing -- President Kennedy asked me to work on the ratification of the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.

K: When can you send me the list of participants?

C: ________ days

K: This is very much on our minds.

C: This is a real opportunity for the President to improve access to certain groups in the U.S.

K: Frankly, the President hasn't been too concerned with that but he is greatly concerned with Biafra.

I would ask to do what and what we want to come out of this. We would want you to come down quickly.

C: Thank you.

K: Thank you and I appreciate this.

By KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

*

Telecon IO
Haldeman
1/15/70 4:55 p.m.

[didn't hear the beginning]

K: Finally do you know what the P decided on that budget?

K: I don't think he decided anything. John talked to him and I ddin't get a report back.

K: I knew he would get my job--he's got yours already.

H: He's welcome to it.

K: That's what kills one about you. How can you fight a guy who's got no personal ambition?

H: Don't be so sure.

K: You exist to serve the President.

H: Well, that's not unique.

K: No, but you have it in an acute form. . . Okay Haldeman, that's the last nice thing I'll say to you this year.

By KL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELCON
The President/Kissinger
6:10 pm 1/15/70

K: ... 40 million more. He was going to get in jet and come East.
There's a rumble in the Pentagon and he's trying to shift blame to
you.

President: He cannot get more. Does Laird buy 300?

K: yes Yes, he was coming east but I kept him from doing that.

President: 300 on top of 435 agreed upon at Christmas.

K: MacNamara ran lean operation.

President: We will stick with that. 310 is it. We tried 350 and can't get it.

K: The Ambassador in Kabul had an interesting contact with Chinese Ambassador through Yugoslav Ambassador. He suggested that talks begin in Warsaw then talk could begin about talking elsewhere.

One interesting thing he said -- Vietnam has no baring on Chinese-U.S. relations.

President: Whole new attitude on that.

K: Have to withdraw from Taiwan. In Vietnam have to withdraw eventually.
That was in your Nov. 3 speech.

President: We would have no trouble getting out of Taiwan.

K: We would have to withdraw our 7th fleet from Straits but would not have to pass hand Taiwan over them.

President: Very interesting point.

K: Everyone was opposed to those drones over southern China but they haven't hurt anything.

Chinese push is withdraw from VN as soon as possible and should not be raised in Warsaw. Has no baring on U.S.-Chinese relations.
Very interesting.

President: Yes.

By KHU NARA, Date 5/12/04

President/Kissinger
1/15/70 6:10 pm

-2-

K: I had a call from Norman Cousins about Biafra. He felt you could gain prestige with groups you do not generally have access. He will help. I gave him a rundown on the weekend.

President: Was he pleased? Hope he knows that the State Department wasn't happy about that.

K: Yes, I told him. He thought that if you called a conference of private and governmental organizations, it would make a good impression.

President: After the State of the Union?

K: He thought next Monday or Tuesday.

President: Fine. I want to be sure we take leadership on humanitarian problems. They are savages. I don't care about the anarchists, the Communists, the facists. I have as little use for Hitler as for Stalin.

K: A lot of black groups say if we do something for Biafra

President: Ask Fergueson

K: I will. Cousins feels he can raise $50 million.

President: What about State?

K: Richardson will carry the ball.

President: Rogers should be in on it and it would strengthen him.

Don't worry about Gowon because he wants aid. If they don't play we don't have an Ambassador -- we'll just take him out of there. And Wilson better be careful because British aren't happy.

K: I will wait for Cousins proposal. He's sending it by wire tonight. It will give you a lot of credit and standing with groups. You are going to get into major problems with safe guards.

I think we should have a Friday morning meeting on safeguards. Smith is difficult. He should plead. He thinks you are about to abandon.. .

By: KHC

NARA, Date 5/12/04

PRESIDENT/Kissinger
6:10 pm 1/15/70

-3-

President: I told him I was not ready to abandon China.

That Dubridge thing was awful.

K: Helms says this was highly classified.

President: How did it happen?

K: Dubridge did it personally.

President: I don't want a major fight. I told Haldeman give Dubridge one appointment. I will not have him sitting in on my meetings.

K: If you let him go it would not be because of substance but because of the leaking.

President: Of course

K: This position is basically consistent but he said it is varifiable. It is not. You are reasonable. Dubridge is being very unreasonable. Gerry Smith agrees.

President: Prepare an order and put it out tomorrow. Say that I was very distressed. This is not personal but it compromised our telemetry. I cannot have people participating in discussions if they are going to leak information.

K: Should I check with you?

President: No

K: I will check with Haldaman.

President: Make it very tough. I want them to cringe, especially Dubridge.

K: Totally irresponsible

President: Who is cranking up attach?

K: Science

President: Why?

K: Because one system doesn't work and ABM works and frightens Russians.

President: Get that memo out. I will not have this.

By KHC NARA, Date 5/13/04

TELCOM
Ehrlichman/Kissinger

7:15 pm 1/15/70

E: Tell him not to believe what he reads in the *Star*

K: I talked wth President -- he agreed with you on 350. I told him great mistake. He's taking Laird off the hook. Laird was going to use this with Joint Chiefs to show what pressure he's under.

E: I thought 350 was your figure

K: 310 -- He agrees

E: I misunderstood. Any level you are satisfied with is OK with me.

K: 309. Then I won't have to go back to Helms

E: 309 it is.

By KHC NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Telecon
Secretary Packard
1/15/70 7:28 p.m.

K: You own me 2 million dollars, which is one tenth of one percent of what I've just saved you.

P: What's this all about?

K: I've been yelled at all day about not having firmer control on the department. He's settling for 3 hundred million now. I thought you and Mel had gone further than we should go--couldn't go any further. They all saw this. So we go with the 3 hundred.

P: I won you a million dollars in cash.

K: You can proceed on this basis. I'm sorry to have harrassed you.

P: No if we had gone any further, it would have been in a shambles.

K: As presented, I think it's a fairly responsible budget. We can't go beyond this.

P: I appreciate it very much. It's great to have the chiefs with us on this. General Wheeler agreed to stand out to the right. If we had gone any further the place might have opened up.

K: Absolutely. Yes, and we could have gotten the money this year, but there would have been all hell to pay next.

P: Well, thank you very much Henry and I know Mel will appreciate it.

K: You'll tell him?

P: Yes.

K: Well, it's a pleasure to do business with you.

P: And the same to you.