RADIO TV REPORTS, INC.

4435 WISCONSIN AVENUE, N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 244-3540

FOR

NATIONAL BROADCASTING COMPANY

PROGRAM

The Today Show

STATION

WRC TV
NBC Network

DATE

September 18, 1978 7:00 AM

CITY

Washington, D. C.

SUBJECT

An Interview with Dr. Henry Kissinger

TOM BROKAW: In a dramatic appearance at the White House last night, Presidents Carter and Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin announced that after thirteen days at Camp David they have achieved a framework for peace in the Middle East. And we're going to talk about that framework for peace in the Middle East this morning with a man who has spent a good deal of his life in that part of the troubled world and a good deal of his efforts as the Secretary of State, Dr. Henry Kissinger.

First of all, Dr. Kissinger, can you give us an overall assessment of what you see so far? This seems to be a significant step, but there are fragile qualities as well. The ground still could give way, could it not?

DR. HENRY KISSINGER: Well, everything in the Middle East has a fragile quality. But this is a very major achievement. The ground could conceivably still give way, but so much of an advance has now been made that it will be in totally different circumstances and in much better circumstances.

BROKAW: In effect, before we get to the details, what we are working toward here is a separate peace treaty between Egypt and Israel.

DR. KISSINGER: Well, a separate peace treaty in the sense that Egypt and Israel will make peace first. But there is a framework for making progress on the West Bank. And I think it's the statesmanlike thing to do. It couldn't be settled all together. So they've made -- they've agreed to make peace first between Egypt and Israel.

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BROKAW: All right. Let's talk about some of the elements. We're going to look, first of all, at the West Bank, which you can see outlined up there, which has been a critical area and a sticking point during the earlier negotiations. There is under this agreement a provision for a five year transition, with local autonomy, which would include the participation of Palestinians. Israeli forces would stay in place at selected areas, but their continued presence could be negotiated out during this five year transition, and that there will be a role for Jordan.

Does that represent a really major concession on the Prime Minister -- on the part of Prime Minister Begin?

DR. KISSINGER: The tremendous concession for Prime Minister Begin, given his past, is that he has agreed not to establish any more settlements on the West Bank. The second big concession, as far as he's concerned, is that he's willing to negotiate about the ultimate disposition of the West Bank, without making a final commitment what it will be. Both of these things he had said he will never do.

Also, if you look at this map, if you see that the Sinai now will be hopefully an area of peace since Egypt and Israel have agreed to make peace and have diplomatic relations, I think this should ease the negotiations for the West Bank, because it will remove one of the big Israel security concerns.

BROKAW: Do you have a clue yet as to what the attitude of King Hussein of Jordan is toward this agreement?

DR. KISSINGER: Well, I think it will be cautious, given the pressures he's under from Palestinians and from the Syrians, who are not included in any of these agreements. But I think over a period of time, he will join it. He will recognize that it is in his interest to have the West Bank under Arab local control and, at the same time, an area of peace.

BROKAW: But won't the success of all of this depend, as much of the Middle East does, on the behavior of the PLO, which is almost uncontrollable by these parties?

DR. KISSINGER: I don't think it depends so much on the behavior of the PLO. I think it depends on the reactions of other parties to the behavior of the PLO. If Egypt and Jordan don't cooperate with the PLO, as I expect they will not, then I think that between Egypt, Jordan and Israel major progress can be made on the West Bank.

BROKAW: The key to an agreement in the Sinai, which is then the key to an agreement for an overall peace treaty.

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between Egypt and Israel, are Israeli settlements which are now
in the Sinai. Prime Minister Begin has to go back to the Knesset
and ask whether or not they want to begin withdrawing those
settlements now or have that done in the course of negotiations.

Do you anticipate he'll have any trouble or that the
Knesset will balk at the idea of withdrawing those settlements,
beginning almost immediately?

DR. KISSINGER: No, I do not. I think this is a
legalistic point. He did not have the authority to agree to
give up the settlements while he was here. They have agreed,
however, that they will make a settlement within the three
months, a final agreement within a three months' period.
I'm confident that the Parliament, that the Israeli Knesset,
is going to agree to the removal of the settlements. It's a
very anguishing decision for them to make, but given the fact
that there'll be full diplomatic relations with Egypt, "stones
of peace," I'm certain that they will agree to it.

BROKAW: Let's talk about the overall effect for
just a moment. Won't President Sadat come under enormous
pressure now from some of his Arab allies, especially from
Syria?

DR. KISSINGER: I think he'll come under enormous
pressure. He's a great man who took tremendous decisions. On
the other hand, he's the only Arab leader who actually managed
to get a return of Arab territory. He's the only one who under-
stood that, in order to make peace, the Arabs have to make a
major step in normal relations between themselves and Israel.
And I think over a historic period it will be understood that
he helped also the other Arabs and not only himself.

BROKAW: But there are already signs of some dis-
cord for him. We have a report this morning, pretty well-
confirmed, that his Foreign Minister, Kamel, has resigned,
apparently as a result of this agreement.

DR. KISSINGER: Well, that seems to be the habit
of Egyptian Foreign Ministers. Fahmi resigned last year.

I think that Sadat is a man of great vision. The
Arab dilemma has been that they took rhetorical positions and
achieved nothing. He has achieved the return of Arab territory.
The Israelis have achieved peace. This was always the shape on
which the agreement would have to be made.

Yes, he will come under great pressure. I think he
can withstand it.

BROKAW: High marks for Jimmy Carter as a diplomat and

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as a statesman?

DR. KISSINGER: I think he deserves credit for great courage in calling the summit, for great skill in bringing it to a conclusion. And he deserves the gratitude of the American people and of the people of the world.

BROKAW: He has had a low standing in the polls, as you know. Do you expect that this will help him repair his Image with the American people and in the world?

DR. KISSINGER: Well, you know, I've seen Presidents in action. I don't think Presidents finally act basically to get higher polls. I think he will get higher polls, but I think it's the marks in history that will concern him, and there he deserves high marks.

BROKAW: What about the future role of the United States, because there is a continuing negotiation that must go forward here? Do you expect that he will have to continue an activist part in these negotiations?

DR. KISSINGER: I think the United States should play an activist role. I would hope that the President does not himself stake his prestige, even though it worked this time, in personally conducting the negotiations at every stage. And I don't think that we will face a crisis similar to the one that produced the last necessity. The West Bank settlement has a five year time period. It can be done in a more leisurely way. But of course, he will have to be -- he will have to play the role as establishing guiding principles.

BROKAW: Briefly, a personal question. You were so involved in all of this, and I know that you approve of this agreement. Did you have any personal twinge of regret that you weren't involved in these negotiations?

DR. KISSINGER: Well, I had a certain feeling of nostalgia. These are all people I worked with and knew. I had some nostalgia, but I'm proud that America played this role.

BROKAW: Henry Kissinger on the terms for a framework for peace in the Middle East.