The President's Office
The White House
The President's Desk
Papers of Lyndon B. Johnson

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

By: J.L. V. NASA Date: 5/12/04

TELCOM

Ehrlichman/Kissinger

9:53 a.m. - 8/2/72

K: Hello.

E: John Ehrlichman, Henry.

K: Hello John, how are you?

E: Fine.

K: Laird says you're mad at him. He called me this morning.

E: That I'm mad at him or that I should be?

K: No, he says you are mad at him because he held the line on the President's defense budget. Hell, I was out of the country; I don't even know what the hell he's talking about.

E: Let me tell you what happened. After about three and a half weeks of the most intensive study, the President sent a message to the Congress calling for the Congress to impose a $250 billion ceiling on itself which is over the President's budget. Laird yesterday blasted the President in the Star.

K: Well, is that wrong? Doesn't every Cabinet member do that?

E: Well this one is a little awkward for two reasons. One is that it cut the legs right out from under a very elaborate political play which was going to lay higher taxes to the Congress rather than the President. Two it affected a $19.5 billion...

K: John, a Cabinet member shouldn't attack the President even if the President thinks everyone walks left-handed...

E: I understand. Well, he really ticked the President off.

K: Well he called me this morning. I figured there was something wrong. He said that somebody was mad at him at the White House - was I mad at him? I said, "I don't know what you're talking about." He said, "all he was doing was maintaining the form that the McGovern Amendment couldn't pass."

E: That's horse shit.

The President's Office
is the place to be in
the world of today

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 1295A, Sept. 3.6

By: K.L.V. NASA Date 5/12/04

K: And I said I can't imagine that somebody at the White House would object to that and he never mentioned the $250 billion debt ceiling.

E: I'll send you down the Star story so that you have it.

K: I can get it.

E: But I think we have to set a line because Shultz is meeting with all the financial lawyers in town today at noon.

K: Well look it the President sent a message to the Congress, that's it. There can't be another line and I'll call Laird and tell him we'll back him in defending the Defense budget and we expect him to get. . .

E: He's got to be consistent between the two. His theory is that all of the appropriations bills will be passed except the Defense appropriation and that it then will be squeezed by the Congress on the pretext that they've got to get under the President's $250 billion limit. But the thing he doesn't take into account is that we're going to veto a lot of domestic appropriations bills starting with Labor-HEW as the first one out of the box. Wouldn't that be sweet?

K: Well, it's one thing for him to say that he's for that ceiling unless it squeezes Defense. That I can still understand, but he's testifying this morning. I'll get him as soon as he gets back.

E: And have him do this - we got to set a line on this. I'm going to instruct Shultz to stick with the President's line. Let's have Laird get in line with the President on the spending ceiling.

K: OK.

E: Now the second thing is I was at Richardson's dinner last night for the Minister of Health. Elliot asked me if I would cause Mrs. Minister whatever her name is, to be shown around the White House and so I extended an invitation to her there on the spot. Then Dobrynin in discussing the time that she might come and so on intimated that the Minister might be coming with her and I said to him "Well, Mr. Ambassador, I hope you will let me know well in advance if the Minister does intend to come with his wife because obviously that would necessitate a different kind of arrangement." He said, "Yes, I understand completely." I think he took that as a signal that I was cool to the idea of the Minister coming but I think you better know about that because I think you're playing a little game there.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.5

TELCONE

Bob Semple/Kissinger

10:07 a.m. - 8/2/72

K: Hello

S: Hello, Bob.

K: Can I talk to you off the record for a minute?

S: Sure.

K: Bob, as a friend,

S: Uh huh.

K: Don't quote these idiotic sources. Nobody knows a God damn thing about these negotiations.

S: Right

K: And this is now the second time that fresh from a trip to Paris first Gwertzman and then you talk to some self-important idiot. Now I tell you flatly, I don't care whome you talk to.

S: Right.

K: I am saying that first of all there are only two interpretations possible. One, Hanoi is interested in the President's re-election and is coluding with me to put on theater.

S: Right.

K: Two, that they are trying to talk. non p<sub>o</sub> is

S: Right.

K: Now, you can choose among those two.

S: Um hm.

K: I'm using--this is strictly off the record.

S: Right, right.

K: Now, since I do not have the impression that Hanoi is eager to get the President re-elected

S: Right.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

The president shows the document to his secretary and requests a copy of the original document.

6/11/04 NASHA, Date 5/12/04

K: But I may be wrong on that.

S: Right. It's a thesis.

K: It's just total nonsense to say that there is no progress there is no hope

S: That's right

K: They are trying to split the military from the political, they are doing this or that. Nobody knows what we are doing.

S: Right.

K: And that's by mutual agreement and insistence.

S: Um.

K: So if it doesn't make such a dramatic story but it happens to be true. I don't give a damn if you keep writing what you're doing, but.

S: No, no. I, I mean we sometimes not knowing anything else I suppose that's the kind of a story that ought to be treated in three paragraphs.

K: I don't know whom you talked to, but ah actually from our selfish point of view this story is better than a three paragraph story.

S: Right.

K: Because it give a lot of impression of activity and so forth. So I have no complaint from the Administration point of view and you didn't say anything that from the public record isn't true.

S: Um. hm.

K: All I tell you is don't, don't-check with me if you want to say anything. I won't tell you anything either, but at least I'll tell you whether its nonsense.

S: Well, obviously the public record is discouraging and the people and let's say not encouraging in the sense of ah, ah progress, you know making, making claims of progress.

K: But they would have absolutely no way of knowing.

S: That's right but I think the-- that Bernie and I talked to

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

Are you sure you want to do that?

By: KMH, NASA, Date: 5/13/04 - 3 -

K: For all they know, for all anybody knows Le Duc Tho and I sit there playing pinochle for several hours.

S: Right.

K: And all of it is a big charade.

S: Yeah.

K: They have no reason to be either encouraged or discouraged because obviously not a hell of a lot is going to happen x in the public session. I mean that's the slightest tip of the iceberg.

S: Right. All right.

K: I mean you can't just deduce a hell of a lot from the public sessions. Again I don't want to mislead you. I'm not telling you there is progress and if you wrote there's progress I would also disagree.

S: Right.

K: I mean I would also say you have no evidence.

S: Right. Would it be fair to say then as long as all we have to go from and so do the public officials we talk to presumably is the public record. Is it fair to say there is no evidence one way or the other.

K: That is the exactly correct statement.

S: I see and we should not spend an overwhelming amount of time talking to officials who deduce from the lack of public evidence conclusions that there must be, therefore, no private progress.

K: Exactly right. But don't also say that there is private progress. Just say, you know I don't care what you say but I'm just trying to help your own thinking.

S: Yeah, fair enough.

K: OK.

S: All right. I heard you last night.

K: You heard me?

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 3293, Sect. 3.6

The President of the Women's Press Club has invited you to a special luncheon. Please join us.

By: KVL V NASA Date: 5/13/64 - 4-

S: I played that record from the Women's Press Club Dinner or whatever the hell it was.

K: Jesus, how was it?

S: Oh it is marvelous.

K: Is it?

S: In fact Church practically serves as your straight man. He comes on and gives a pretty good little speech. I've never heard either. And then---

K: Oh, you weren't there?

S: No, no I was not there and one of the gals who went gave me a record in exchange for some other favor and ah you dominate 2/3 of one side. You ought to listen to it someday.

K: Oh really?

S: Very good.

K: Yeah, I didn't think his speech was so bad.

S: No, it wasn't it wasn't, but it's cannibalized by what follows.

K: Well you know.

S: You have another career there in case you get tired of the present one.

K: Thank you. Bye.

S: Thanks for calling.

Re: a new line in the report is ok

Re: new line in the report

Re: new line in the report

CLASSIFIED
E.O 12938, Sec. 3.6

By: K.L.S. NASHUA, Okt 5/13/04

TELCONE

Clair Booth Luce/Kissinger

12:05 p.m. 8/2/72

L: Hello.

K: Hello.

L: Henry.

K: Clair, how are you?

L: I thought you were in Paris.

K: I was in Paris.

L: Did you get back today?

K: I got back late last night.

L: Oh what a doll you are to call me. I won't ask you about all that I hear you tell everybody.

K: That's true.

L: Henry.

K: Yes.

L: I called you and I'm not going to waste time because I want to suggest if its humanly possible that when the President is in Hawaii that he and Tanaka make their announcements from the East-West Center.

K: All right.

L: The reasons are as follows: It would be viewed as a tremendous gesture east and west because there are so many East-West Center people, you know, the students and so many of them from nations all over the Pacific and then again the people of Hawaii would see it as a tremendous gesture to all those nations. I think it would be a wonderful locus for it.

K: Right.

L: Also, it would make that institution it would give it great dignity and separate it from the University of Hawaii which is the focal point of resistance to the President as you well know.

Reproducible Copy on file in
the National Archives
Provenance File?

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.L.Y. NASA Date: 5/12/64

K: Right and it is sufficiently separated from the University.

L: Oh yes the East-West Center is paid for by Congressional funds
it's the only institution that is totally supported by the taxpayer of
the US.

K: OK.

L: And for the benefit of. The President knows about it. I don't think
he visited it, but Mrs. Nixon did.

K: Right.

L: This is a suggestion I should not properly make to you but I'm going
to do it anyway I've got to on the phone. There was a great deal
of criticism of the President on his last two visits four visits really
back and forth. You know.

K: For what?

L: When he was in Hawaii he never saw I mean we understood all sorts
of people like us he did not see any of the visiting dignitaries. I
mean any of the---

K: Local dignitaries.

L: Yeah. Now this is and I would not had I been asked I would not
advised him to shake Republican hands because he's in the position
of shaking the hands of about four people you know.

K: Yes.

L: This might be an occasion not for Republican hands, but for all
the distinguished citizens including the Governor and Mayor and
the Legislature and everything. Now Henry there is an enormous
oriental population we have in our state. My gardner's name is
Tanaka. Everybody is more or less pro-Japanese. So that's the
second reason. It would be tremendously well seen by the
people of my state. The third reason is that I honestly think all
things breaking even and if the President takes notice of Hawaii
in that sense because they're enormously proud to have Tanaka
coming there the Japanese-Americans I think he'll carry Hawaii
believe it or not. I wouldn't have said that

K: No, I'm beginning to think that if we give McGovern enough exposure
we might be able to carry every state.

L: Yes, but Hawaii is 17 to 1 Democratic registration and I still say

H. E. Slocum, as a result of this visit if he makes this impartial kind of contact he'll carry the state.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: J.M.W. NASA Date: 5/12/04

K: I'll tell him that.

L: So that's--so if he makes it just Republican he'll take off all the gloss.

K: No, he can't do that anyway when he's--

L: If he doesn't see anybody they'll be a little bit hurt. So that's my suggestion.

K: Well I appreciate both of these suggestions. When you are coming East? I hope I don't wish it on you during the summer.

L: No, I'll be east later in the year Henry. How is your health?

K: It seems to be fine. I'll probably go all at once someday.

L: You do beautifully on the television.

K: When was that?

L: When you gave that detailed explanation.

K: Oh, did that turn out all right?

L: Wonderful, wonderful. Anyway, God Bless.

K: Nice to talk to you. Clair do let me know when you come east.

L: Oh I will indeed.

K: We must have lunch or dinner.

L: I will.

K: Will you be there when I am there, when we're all there?

L: Oh my yes. I'll be in my house. I won't see probably either you or the President.

K: No you will see

L: My house is your house anytime.

K: Well, you will see me. I will see you.

L: Oh great, love it.

H. J. M. D. E. (H. J. M. D.)
President and Chief Executive Officer

TELCOM

Sec. Connally/Kissinger

12:32 p.m. - 8/2/72

K: Hello, Mr. Secretary.

C: Hello there, Doctor, how was your trip?

K: Very interesting.

C: That's good. I talked to Prince Saud Faisal and had a two hour visit with him. He is extremely knowledgeable about these negotiations and he is waiting to come over to see you this afternoon. He's at the Madison Hotel. I suggested 3 or 4 o'clock because I wasn't sure but if you don't mind you might ask your secretary to call him and set a time.

K: Oh, good. I can't do it at 4, I can do it at 3.

C: Well, I'm sure he'll do it anytime, Henry.

K: Now is there anything I ought to know.

C: Yes. They apparently are pretty well locked in on a participation at 20% and escalating really to 51%. He asked me if we were worried about this netbook value.

K: There are two issues. One is the participation and the other is . .

C: the matter of compensation.

K: Exactly.

C: Now he says that for the most part they have everything agreed except the matter of compensation and I said "Well, it's a very vital factor. And I said netbook value - the use of that would upset us enormously." That means that you're going to be trying to set a pattern for the rest of the world, not just in the petroleum industry but in all types of industries." I said, "Netbook value, particularly of extractive minerals industry does not in any sense reflect value." Well, he said, "We can use other words. There are ways that we can affect compensation. There are many hidden compensations. Maybe we'll have to devise new words." And I said, "I think it's absolutely essential that we get away from the net book value."

Husayn al-Khalidiya
Husayn al-Khalidiya
Husayn al-Khalidiya

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12458, Sect. 3.5

By: KM. L
N/A: Date: 5/12/04

2

K: What did he say about that?

C: He just simply said that in effect perhaps we will have to get away from that and find some new words to describe value and quit using the words of art - in other words of net book value.

K: Have you talked to Ken Jamieson?

C: Yes, I have and gave him a fairly good rundown on it.

K: Good. I felt an obligation.

C: I told him that we were going to try to set this up for him to see you this afternoon. He then expressed the hope that you would let him know after that. The Prince has on his own initiative asked for a week's delay of these negotiations.

K: Oh good. Well, that's what Jamieson wanted.

C: Jamieson is asking really for two weeks delay. I suggested to Saud that they just hold everything in abeyance until after the election. I said, "Now frankly things have reached the point where we don't want the American oil companies negotiating foreign policy for us and I said you and I are deeply engaged in foreign policy." I got into the whole Middle East situation with him and discussed it fairly lengthy. I said, "Now this country has been derelict in not establishing over the years a more specific oil policy and an energy policy but this President wants to do it and we're going to do it. But we can't do it in the next two weeks and we don't want you all to take any action that would set you on a course that would make a confrontation with us inevitable because we're going to be a great consuming nation. We're the largest consuming nation in the world. You're going to be the largest producing nation in the world. You are now. Now frankly we don't want you to set a course that makes it absolutely impossible for us to work out and coordinate policy with you." Then he said, "We need to get this settled. We're not going to do anything that would make it impossible for us to work out a coordinated policy. That's the reason his majesty wrote the President because we had understood from things that were said in this country that this government was for the first time seriously considering the establishment of an inter policy and his Majesty's letter was for the purpose of inviting a dialogue with us." And I said, "Well, that's great. We'd like to have that dialogue, but you must understand that we're all deeply involved in election procedures here now for the next 90 days. I don't know what great urgency there is in your moving forward with these negotiations

The President's Office in the House of Representatives

Proprietary Staff

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 1293, Sept. 3.5

By: KVLW NASA Date: 5/12/04

C: and establishing the principal of participation looking toward 51% (cont.) prior to the time that we could get together and talk about it.

K: I agree with you.

C: But they want to settle this.

K: Let me proceed on that. I will follow exactly the same line. I will call Jamieson afterwards and I'll call you. How long will you be down here?

C: I don't know. I may be here tonight, Henry.

K: Want to have breakfast tomorrow?

C: I'm not sure because I may or not see the President. If I see him I'll remain over, but if I don't I'm going on home this afternoon.

K: Are you telling me that if the President sees you for breakfast you're turning me down.

C: Yes. I hate to tell you that but that's one of the facts of life. I'm sorry to disil lusion you, but you haven't been rejected many times.

K: Do you want to stop in after? It's entirely up to you. I can see you next week.

C: No, I'll probably see you next week Henry.

K: Are you coming early next week?

C: Yeh, I'll be in Sunday night.

K: Look, I'm really quite anxious to get your judgment from - of the problem we discussed last time. That's beginning to crystallize now and I can't make it for breakfast on Monday but.

C: We can do it anytime Monday.

K: Shall we set a time now? 10 o'clock.

C: That's good. See you at 10 on Monday.

Re: your call at the airport

Date: 2/11/84
Time: 4:15 p.m.

Telephone: 213-683-8211

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

By: K.L. W. NASA Date: 5/12/84

TELCOM

Joyce Haber/Kissinger

12:45 p.m. - 8/ 2/72

K: Hello, Joyce. How are you?

H: Great, Henry, how are you?

K: Good. Just got back from Paris again.

H: I know - talking about programs, you are sneaky.

K: Oh well, you think I improvise these things?

H: No, because remember I asked you wasn't it going to disturb you. . .

K: What did I say?

H: You really never lied to me. You just paused and said "Well, Joyce all these things are programmed." And then I heard you were in Paris. How did it go?

K: Well, I can't talk about it but at any rate it's continuing.

H: I suppose that's good. I don't know.

K: Well, what I mean is the talks are continuing. I never can talk about my trips. It's an understanding I have with them. Sorry, Joyce, I've been trying to get to Bill Safire but he's in Europe.

H: He is?

K: He may be back but I don't know how to get him now.

H: Well, I don't know I haven't discussed with the fellas what to do about the whole thing since they . . . . . . with Marlo in the LA Times.

K: They may not want to do it at all.

H: I was wondering if the . . . were anywhere else.

K: That article is really bad. You know it's stupid, stupidly one-sided.

H: I told her to do the convention and she does a piece on the way back about how great McGovern is which is absurd.

The president of theرابle he
is elected, and so on, in a democratic
series of steps?

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.L.V. NASA Date: 5/13/64

2

K: I think it would have been much better if it had been a little more objective.

H: Yes, exactly. I just can't believe it and the pictures she sent along - she interviewed the Yippie - whatever his name is. She interviewed Norman Mailer, all these fascinating people and she didn't use any of it. Never ask an actress to be a reporter I guess. As a matter of fact the best offer I've had is Irving Wallace who used to write for .

K: I like him.

H: I do, too and he was here the other night for the screening of 'The Candidate.'' He said that Sylvia had such fascinating things on the Democratic Convention that he couldn't use and that she would be glad to send me stuff on the Republican Convention. You know I'm still in a dither about whether to do it and who to use because there isn't a single sober type going that has enough intelligence to write a piece on that thing. They have their press agent write and I'm afraid I'll have the same fiasco.

K: I'm afraid that's right.

H: What I may do is refilm this stuff - you know do it at home or something like that.

K: Well, how are you?

H: Oh, I'm surviving. I'm pretty good, I guess. We're having a terrible heat wave as you've probably read. It's like Miami in August.

K: Well, I'm only going down for a day.

H: Are you? Irving was trying to get me to go and I said "No, as long as Sylvia was there."

K: Well go, it might be fun. I'm going down whenever the President goes down. I thought - I didn't think it was right for me to go for the whole time. It's proper for me to be with the President.

H: You're chickening out.

K: I'm not at all chickening out but I don't want to get caught in a bloody partisan fight.

H: I don't blame you. Do you want to hear what the fellows picked as the ideal ticket for '72?

The president of the open class
and the class of '68 combined
McGovern and Eagleton?

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12939, Sect. 3.6

By: KMLV NASA Data 5/13/04

3

K: What?

H: Agnew-Eagleton. Isn't that marvelous!

K: I was at a dinner the other day. All Democrats, violently opposed to McGovern and really opposed in a way that I wouldn't have believed possible. And one very senior Democrat you'd be astonished, said "The only thing wrong with that ticket is that the wrong guy is in the No. 1 spot."

H: That's what somebody said to me at a party the other day. They said they thought Eagleton was far more charming than McGovern.

K: I must say McGovern hasn't covered himself as ______ in this affair.

H: Oh, it's a mess.

K: Well, I thought they really treated Eagleton in a rough way. Not by getting him off, but by the way they did it.

H: I just can't believe some of the statements like the LA Times story. I don't understand what the hell is wrong with his PR people but I hope you read that story in which he said he wants him on the ticket but he will let him resign within the next 10 days. He doesn't want to remove him but if he doesn't resign then he will remove him.

K: That's all very well a strategy, but once you've said it you might as well remove him.

H: Exactly. You have to make up your mind what you're going to do. I think it's a disaster.

K: Well, I'll be out at the end of the month. Oh, excuse me, I've got a call on the other line that I must take. Joyce, I'll be out at the end of the month. I hope to see you then.

H: OK, Henry. I do too. Call me before then.

K: I will certainly will.