M. Miyazaki: First of all, I'd like to ask you about the reunification of Germany. On the very day of the German reunification I was in Berlin to cover the news. I had an impression that German people showed stronger interest in the recovery of their sovereignty than in the unification itself.

Dr. Kissinger: Well, sovereignty in the German mind is connected with the German unification. Because as long as they were divided, they did not really have a sovereign country until their own territory and they considered themselves a defeated country under occupation rule. With unification, their foreign occupation ended. And so, you see, in the German mind the two are related.

M. Miyazaki: Do you think that a strong nationalistic feeling among the German people will emerge from now on?

Dr. Kissinger: That is the big challenge in Europe right now. Whether they will manage to form a United Europe or whether they will go the route of a national arm. I think the Germans have many reasons not to be nationalist. But they are also located in the center of the continent, and they have more neighbors than anybody else. That produces a consciousness of nationality. I hope that Germany will go the road of European unification, and I think they will.

M. Miyazaki: Is a reunified Germany a threat?

Dr. Kissinger: In terms of population, Germany is the largest country outside the Soviet Union on the continent and has a

but I don't think Germany is a military threat.

M. Miyazaki: Throughout eastern Europe internal reform is now their priority but there exists a vacuum of power. What do you think how we should create a new order, peace and harmony in the post cold war era?

Dr. Kissinger: I think that the Soviet Union has come to the view that we should try to maintain the status quo was too expensive. But it would force us into endless military adventures in the center of Europe. It was also jeopardized by its relations with the other European countries and it would weaken its relationship with the United States. So, it decided that their security could not be assured by maintaining a large army in the center of Europe that was constantly being put down and opposition from the point of view of Soviet security, it has obviously concluded that keeping their army inside their territory is safer for them, and more compatible with their security than any other course.

M. Miyazaki: Well, what do you think about the EC?

Dr. Kissinger: I think the European Community will come to assume political functions and a part of military functions through the mechanism of the West European Union, WEU.

M. Miyazaki: Well, how about the functions of the CSC?

Dr. Kissinger: We had the first CSC conference when I was in Government. There are certain specific functions that the CSC can perform, such as encouraging

economies contact between east and west; students, human rights activities; and general exchange of ideas. What the CSC cannot do is to have a security function because it would almost be like the old League of Nations.

M. Miyazaki Now I'd like to hear your opinions about the Soviet Union.

Dr. Kissinger: People in the Soviet Union are probably feeling more independent. I don't think that there is much that the West or the industrial democracies can do one way or the other. The internal revolution of the Soviet Union has to be achieved by the Soviet Union. There is very little we can do about it except to prevent catastrophe. If there is any in Russia, then we should try to help.

M. Miyazaki The communist ideology has been like sort of adhesives to stick all the nationals together but now it lost its power.

Dr. Kissinger: Well, the communist ideology was the substitute for nationalism and was the means of holding the country together. Now that the communist ideology has weakened and that they have elected government in a majority of the republics, for the first time in several hundred years Russia is not governed from the center but from the capital of each of the republics. This creates a problem where either they will have to let some of these republics go or there will be repression. And maybe there will be both. I also think that within a year or two a lot of items will come out in the open, such as fundamental economic problems including a breakdown of the distribution system.

M. Miyazaki How do you evaluate President Gorbachev and his achievements?

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Dr. Kissinger: I think President Gorbachev has an unusual analytic ability, and he has unusual courage in recognizing the difficulty of his society. It is too early to tell whether he has been equally successful in actually solving the problems that he has identified.

M. Miyazaki: It seems to me that eastern Europe may become the second Latin America.

Dr. Kissinger: Well, many countries have gone from market economics to central planning but no country has yet gone from central planning to market economics. Once, somebody said it is the difference between an aquarium and fish soup: You can make fish soup out of an aquarium, but you can not make an aquarium out of fish soup. That is the problem. They all would like to be like western Europe today. But they forget that western Europe, like Japan, went through ten to fifteen years of economic hardship before the consumer economy started.

People in the eastern block now adopt democracy, at least most of them, and they are committed to market economics. But with oil prices going up, they also have an energy crisis.

M. Miyazaki: And now I'd like to focus the subject on the middle east problems.

Dr. Kissinger: I have stated repeatedly that a long major American presence in the Gulf is highly undesirable, because it will destabilize the government of the area and will itself become a bone of contention.

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of time

M. Miyazaki: What do you think of the Palestinian problems that surround Israel?

Dr. Kissinger: Well, this problem has been a major issue for the Gulf crisis. We should try to turn to it if the moderate countries of the Arab world associate us with us feeling that they were successfully defended. Then we might be able to do a cooperative negotiation. If Saddam Hussein emerges in the Arab mind as somebody who has scored successes, then we will have difficulty.

The situation is very fluid because you have conflicts between radical and moderate Arabs. You have conflicts between fundamentalists and secularists. You have the Arab/Isreali conflict. Therefore, there is not everything can be settled around the Palestinian issue. And I believe it is going to take a long time before we can say a new order has emerged.

M. Miyazaki: Let me ask you a question that I really want to ask. You are standing on the bridge that lies between academia and real politics. Academia passes through ideals while politics pass through feasibility. There have been few academics who influenced an administration any greater than you did yourself. How do you make these two different roles compatible?

Dr. Kissinger: Well, I never expected to have any practical role. I thought I would be an academic all my life. But it was almost an accident that I became a practicing statesman.

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change a conclusion but you pay a much higher price for changing a decision. To reach a conclusion you can usually spend as much time as you need. In real life, decisions have to be made within a limited time frame. A conclusion for you can reverse after some time. A decision has its own momentum. There is not enough experience with professors in decision-making processes to be able to draw a general conclusion. But, these are the considerations that bear on it. I do not think professors are good as a rule. Because they do not know the difference between a decision and a conclusion.

I am at the border line between academic life and practical life, and there are few like me. So I do not know whether one can draw a general conclusion from essentially one experience.

M. Miyazaki By the way, is there any book that influenced you greatly?

Dr. Kissinger: I admire Churchill very much. I like biographies of people like De Gaulle and Churchill. I like to read memoirs of people and history.

M. Miyazaki This is the last question. I know you're very busy every day, but do you do anything special to maintain your health?

Dr. Kissinger: Well, I like to play tennis and I like to go swimming. I have a house in the country, and I go there every weekend. It is in the forest in the hills and I like to get out.

M. Miyazaki Thank you very much.