The President's Office of the Vice President
for Political Affairs

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12950, Sept. 3.5

TELECON

Hugh Sidey

7/27/72 8:48am

K: Hello.

S: Hello Henry.

K: Hugh, how are you?

S: I heard a rumor you were declaring your candidacy.

K: Jesus Christ. You know, you guys make it hard for a man to stay honor-
able. This is an issue really that I just think it is hitting far below the belt.
And you know, A, I don't think it's a crime and if it's going to be that way
then I'll just stop campaigning and the hell with it...

S: Well, number one, I don't either; I think it's perfectly legitimate, but...

K: But what is legitimate. What the hell does anyone think I've been doing.

S: Let me tell you how this came up. A guy, an attorney in town who
money men up in New York said the story he got was
that they had been called by you and been asked to come to the White House

K: I have never called anybody to come to the White House.

S: Well, the point is that I reasoned that myself and I... Semple's story yesterday when he talked to you...

K: Actually Hugh, what happened was, let's separate the two stories, the
two events. On the West Coast, almost every time that I'm out there I go
to the Los Angeles Times, you know, and this isn't an issue. Almost every
time that I'm out there Taft Schreiber or somebody else gets a group of
people together and I talk to them about foreign policy. That I do, incidentally,
regardless of. . . . I don't even know who's coming except that they are
leaders of the community; I never ask them for money, in fact on that particular
occasion I didn't even speak, I just answered questions. And I didn't even make
a five-minute introductory statement. It was entirely question and answer and
that I have done on three previous occasions. And therefore I didn't give it
any thought when Schreiber called me four weeks before I got there asking
me to do this.

S: Yeah.

K: That's the first thing. Now the second, in New York. About May first
again Taft Schreiber called me, this is true and on behalf of Gus Levy and
asked whether I would be willing to talk to a group of financiers. I responded
to this the way I would respond to Hedley Donovan. I checked with Nelson
Rockefeller to find out whether Levy was a respectable guy, all of which
you can check and Nelson Rockefeller told me he was one of the most

TELECON

Sidey, 7/27/72, 8:48am

H. O. W. Taft, in his capacity as
President of the United States

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.J. W. NASHA, Date: 5/13/04

respected people on Wall Street. Again, you may not believe this, I didn't know he had anything to do with fund raising. So I agreed to come to that. I had absolutely no way of knowing . . . first of all the dinner last night was entirely . . . was largely non-Jewish. The lunch was, it turned out, largely Jewish. I had absolutely no way of knowing. Had I known I wouldn't have done it because in this job I have never seen a Jewish group as a Jewish group. And now, Lisagore said yesterday I tell the Jewish community that the President is the best friend they have. I defy one newsman to find me one Jew, much less a leader of the Jewish community to whom I have said anything of the sort. This is not an ethnic office.

S: I see, yeah.

K: And if we need anything out of this god-damned campaign it is to remember that the government is going to go on after November 7 and that the foreign policy is not basically a partisan issue. Now, as it happened, again you can check that, at lunch yesterday in my talk I didn't even mention the Middle East.

S: Oh really.

K: I didn't refer to it in one sentence. Now there was one question about the Middle East which I did answer which had to do with the impact of the recent Soviet embroglio with Egypt.

S: Yeah. Well look Henry what I did was I just took you out of it essentially. In other words I just reckoned yesterday that from all I knew and from the way this had come from you I just . . .

K: No Hugh, you have always been fair but I feel. First of all, I'd like to stay out of the campaign if I could.

S: You really can't. But Henry what you do isn't bad. I hope and trust that my piece was that this is the way it goes, I mean you know you can't separate politics and the Presidency totally.

K: Yeah, but I feel. You know, there are two issues, whether my office should be used for partisan things, and that is one aspect. The second is whether I personally should appeal to the Jewish community. Now that second thing is totally inadmissable and it will never be done.

S: Yeah, yeah.

K: Under no circumstances.

S: Yeah, but you know the notion that you don't have any interest in preserving the policies you have worked on . . .

TELECON

Sidey, 7/27/72, 8:48am

Re: phone tree for open line
and the rest of the day
Please call back

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 1295B, Sec. 3.5

By: KMH NASA Date 5/13/72

K: No, that I do. I have a great interest in it and I feel extremely strongly about it.

S: Well listen, I think it was resolved satisfactorily. I've kept you out of it as having initiated anything. I said people were invited to hear you, that's all.

K: Good.

S: It didn't sound right to me and that's why I called you.

K: Good, I appreciate it.

S: How's everything . . . listen I haven't seen you for a while. You going to be around in the next couple of weeks?

K: Sure, let's get together next week.

S: Oh listen, one thing. Do you want to see Norman Mailer, did you get that note?

K: Oh yes, I would love to see Norman Mailer.

S: He's going to put this all in the book you know.

K: Yeah, I'd like to have lunch or dinner with him next week.

S: Okay, will you give me a date so I can notify him.

K: Yeah, Campbell will call you. Probably Wednesday.

S: Probably next Wednesday?

K: Yes.

S: Okay, would you have your girl call me. He needs a couple of days to get down.

K: Okay, I'll call you before the end of the week.

S: Yeah, okay Henry.

K: Good.

S: Very good.

K: Thank you.

S: Bye.

The President's Office in the Senate
The Senate of the Republic
Preliminary Report

CLASSIFIED
E.O 12958, Sect. 3.6

TELCONE

McGeorge Bundy/Kissinger

9:35 a.m. - 7/27/72

M: ... and especially your State Dining Room briefing. That was a masterful job.

K: Arent' you nice.

M: Your past advocates the agreement without necessarily adopting the entire Defense budget.

K: I had to dance around that.

M: Got a minute. This is a personal matter relating to the timed ______ of Ham Armstrong's retirement from the Council. There's a teapot tempest over there over a dinner that's been arranged largely by Bayliss Manning, five thousand people at the Americana Hotel at the end of September with the Secretary of State as the principal speaker and Ham is in a dither because, as you know the Americana Hotel is a disaster and the Secretary of State is not in his view worthy of talking about foreign relations. The one thing he thought they promised him was that he would not - that there wouldn't be a farewell dinner for him that was designed "impeccably done" as he puts it and now he's written to us saying that he has to be out of the country on that occasion and of course that is the total nonsense which they have to deal with. My question to you is a little bit different. Joe Kraft who's next door to Ham on the Island says that what Ham would really like would be a party somewhere in that last week of September of real friends and it occurred to me that the way to do that would be for the President and former members of the Advisory Committee - he's regularly given one dinner a year to - to say that they owed him a dinner and add ten or twenty additional people he would like. Now from his point of view I think the ______ next to George Cannon himself, your presence would make all the difference to him, if you had any chance that there would be a day there in that last week of September where you could join us all at the Century and just have. .

K: Mac, I would not miss that short of an overwhelming national crisis. I know I cannot do it on the 26th.

The President's Office
The State of California
Department of Civil and Military
Public Records Branch

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sept. 30

By: KMLV NASA Date: 5/12/84

M: Do you know any days that you are almost sure to be in town because of a particular meeting that you could. ..

K: I think I'll be in town actually the evening of the 26th to give a talk. . . after my recent experiences . . .

M: After - If you have any real trouble I'll make a public confession of whether I ever had lunch with Arthur K______ in 1964, Henry.

K: You know if I had known what was being done I would have, you know it's part of the game, but I was really innocent. I would never - it's insane for me to talk - to make deliberate efforts to go after the Jewish. .

M: They were very clumsy. What you usually do is have the quiet little lunch to discuss foreign affairs and then the phone call comes later.

K: Of course. Well, I will come any evening except the 26th. I'll be in New York the evening of the 26th anyway.

M: You're stuck with a dinner?

K: I'm stuck with a dinner.

M: No, it would be much more fun to have one where you could really be there and sit in all the way through.

K: No, I want to stay through and it doesn't do me much good to say do it on the 27th because I'd almost certainly go back and come down again.

M: It doesn't make any difference. It's any one of those days but the 26th?

K: Exactly.

M: As far as you know that would probably mean that you wouldn't be on a sudden trip although you can't tell, of course.

K: I know now there aren't any trips planned. If it were negotiations to the Vietnamese. . . I can sort of schedule that unless it were to break or something like that.

["DECLASSIFIED\nE.O. 12058, Sec. 3.6", "H. E. T. U. S. A. A. S. O. B. C. O. S. T. A. M. B. A. S. O. B. C. O. S. T. A. M. B

September 27, 1972

U.S. Department of State

P.O. Box 611

Washington, D.C. 20506

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

TELECON

Sec. Gen. of UN Waldheim

7/27/72 10:23am

W: Yah, this is Waldheim.

K: Hello Mr. Secretary General, how are you?

W: Good morning Mr. Kissinger. Thank you I am fine. But I am glad that I could reach you. George Bush told me yesterday that I can reach you this morning.

K: Of course, always a pleasure to year from you.

W: I heard you were in New York yesterday but I couldn't reach you so I thought it best if I ring you up this morning. And I thought I should because of this incident with regard to the bombing of the dikes in Vietnam.

K: Yes.

W: Well, George Bush told me about the telephone conversation he had with the President yesterday morning after his Today Show interview. And apparently the President was very much concerned about my statement, or my answers to the question in the conference on Monday.

K: Yes.

W: But I had already in the meantime, two days ago, I had a telephone conversation with Secretary of State Rogers on the same question and we discussed the matter. But I thought it is perhaps useful and helpful if you could tell the President with my best regards that I really did not, definitely did not mean that what I heard from Hanoi is really correct. If you go through my press transcript you will see that I always said that we have several informations and I stressed that this information I got through private, unofficial channels, are informations from Hanoi which our man got in Paris when he went there. So it is a private channel, you know the man, I thought I should mention it to you, it is somebody I was informed that you know personally. Without mentioning the name you will certainly know who I mean. He is now with FAO in Rome.

K: Oh yes, very well.

W: Yeah, so you know him.

K: Oh yes.

W: Well, for your information, he went there several times, to Paris. He of course, it's easy for him being a Frenchman, it's easy to go there. And he had, from time to time, contacts with the North Vietnamese delegation in Paris. I thought I should mention that to you because it's much easier if you know the man and things like that.

TELEC ON
Sec. Gen. Waldheim, 7/27/72 10:23am

Hanoi, 17 June 1972

VIETNAM

Embassy of the Republic of Vietnam

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.5

K: And I like him.

W: I think he's a very good man and very intelligent. So he went there a few times and on both occasions he was informed by the North Vietnamese delegation about the dikes and they told him that they are very much concerned about that, etc., etc. Now this is the private, unofficial contact I thought I should mention that to you so that the President and You know better whom I meant but of course I couldn't mention this by name but I thought I should tell you who this was. But I will ask you to keep it confidential. Now, what I would appreciate is if you could tell the President that I first wanted to mention since I was asked this question. Because apparently from the conversation with Ambassador Bush I got the impression that the President was worried about my unbalanced statement. He didn't use the word but this is the impression I got.

K: That's true; that's what worries him.

W: Yah, now would you please tell the President for me the situation was very difficult because I didn't ask him to raise the question and they jumped on me. It was my first press briefing after a three-weeks tour of Europe as you perhaps know and this was the main question. Every moment another one got up and asked the same question. So I could only answer the question since no other question about other aspects of the problem. . . North Vietnamese invasion, etc. was raised, it was impossible for me to touch upon other questions. But I do want to say that I have expressed my concern already, very early after the invasion started on some occasion.

K: Yeah, I remember your conversation with the President very well. And our concern is just that, this of course is going to become a major domestic issue. We believe that what Hanoi is doing is a really nasty propaganda & campaign. If we wanted to breach the dikes North Vietnam would be under water now. I mean there's no way of missing them. There's no rational explanation why we would have to hit a dike here and a dike there with little bombs that are not designed for it. Now why is it that they don't fill those holes that they keep showing people. They haven't shown one single breaching of a dike and this is of course what concerns us.

W: I have seen some of the pictures which George Bush showed me on the bombing of the dikes and I saw already in these pictures that apparently there are small craters caused by accidental bombing or by bombing targets, military targets, nearby.

K: Exactly. I can assure you, Mr. Secretary General, it is not our policy and if it were it would have been accomplished by now.

W: It would have been easier to do it by other means, that's what you mean.

TELECON

Waldheim, 7/27/72 10:23am

Re: Question about the open line to the State of Vietnam
Please read it

OECASSMEO

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

6/21/72 NASA Date 5/12/72

K: Well, if we wanted to breach the dikes we could easily breach them.

W: Right, I see what you mean, yes.

K: And not even the North Vietnamese claim we have breached any dike.
All they said is we've hit a few dikes.

W: No, what they said, what I got through this information from the man I mentioned, was that they say even if the bombs are not hitting the dikes directly they even if they are falling down nearby they are causing damage

K: I think they are in trouble because they didn't repair the dikes last summer after the floods adequately and they want to use us as an alibi.

W: Well, I am grateful for your information Dr. Kissinger. I thought I should discuss it with you and I appreciate your information.

K: Well Mr. Secretary General you have our high personal regard. I remember our conversation with the greatest warmth and we wanted . . . this is an extremely sensitive issue with us.

W: Yes, I am fully aware now. I didn't expect ______________ because I thought the way of the implications this caused was a little surprising to hear from Washington. But please I didn't at all mean the allegations are correct. I just mentioned them and said . . . I always conditioned it, if you read my answer with "if the allegations are correct" I am concerned because this route would lead to human suffering and disaster ______________. Now you are telling me they are not correct and I think this satisfies the matter.

K: Well Mr. Secretary General I will transmit not only what you said but the spirit in which you said it to the President within the next hour.

W: That is very kind of you Mr. Kissinger. I attach great importance to the continued friendly relations with the President and with you personally. I remember with great pleasure the very agreeable conversation I had with the President and would you please assure him that it was definitely not my intention to cause any difficulties in this respect. It was, as you know a situation which where I was asked questions and I referred to those informations I got but I definitely did not want to confirm this information.

K: Well you can count on my transmitting this to him and you can count on our continued warm relationships.

W: Thank you very much and may I add if I am asked again, I would refer to the assurances I have got from the US authorities.

K: Right, that would be very helpful.

W: Fine, thank you. So thank you very much.

K. Rye

TELECON

Senator Henry Jackson

7/27/72 10:35am

K: Hello:

J: Henry.

K: Scoop, how are you.

J: Well, welcome back. I read about you in luncheon meetings and meeting some of my friends who help me out.

K: Listen Scoop, I tell you for selfish reasons, I wish they were unreachable for us.

J: Yeah, yeah. I know. Seriously. I'm teasing of course.

K: No, I know you're teasing, but actually...

J: I know the spot that you're in and it's not easy.

K: And I, as a matter of fact, I didn't know what I was agreeing to when I did it because this is not what I would do.

J: No, it's the interpretation they place on it, but don't worry about it.

K: I agreed to that three months ago and...

J: Some of your people down there. Their boss is already elected. Now the only thing they can do is get into overkill.

K: Yeah, well, and it's a stupid thing to identify me, I tell you that as a friend, with the Jewish community in this blatant way.

J: Well it's one of those things and you've got to watch the eager beaver. As a former National Chairman I know the things these characters get into.

K: Listen, it will never happen again, you can be sure of that.

J: I know what problems you face on it.

K: But that isn't what I meant. I meant I wish they were unavailable to us because I would much prefer to have you run against us even though you'd be a much more dangerous opponent.

J: Listen, you've got the election won now.

K: Do you think?

J: Oh yeah, I can tell you Henry just between us that so many of my strong supporters, and I'm talking across the board, whether it's labor, whether it's

TELECON

Senator Jackson, 7/27/72 10:35am

from the Jewish community, business, people who are strong for me, and
I've never said a thing to them, they just call up and say what they're going
to do. They just won't support the guy.

K: Well it is a scary phenomenon.

J: Yeah, well you know this development on the Vice Presidential thing was
candid, I mean it involves things other than just the misfor-
tune of an illness, the question of a disclosure and basic integrity, you know.

K: Yeah, yeah.

J: It goes beyond an illness; it's an entirely different story.

K: Yeah.

J: Now we've been in touch, John Lehman and Richard Perl we've been working on some things that I feel very deeply about and several others up here. You know about . . .

K: Well I've been told Scoop that you are worried that we are going to minimum
deterrence.

J: Well that's one of them.

K: Now whatever you may think of our defense policy we will not go to minimum
deterrence, under any circumstances.

J: Well but what I want to hear above all else, is to get some language that
will be acceptable to the Administration so that we can help you on SALT-II
so that there's a signal from the Congress that, you know, we're really not
going to accept all this nonsense, which I am affaid that unless something is
said when we act on approving the agreement, I'm not talking about the treaty,
I'm talking about the . . .

K: No, I understand.

J: And we've worked out some language here that we want your support on
and there are several of us up here in that category. And I want to get it on
a bipartisan basis so that your hand will be strengthened after the election,
you know, if everything gets all tied up with the doggoned election it will be
a sad day afterwards when too many concessions are made, you know. I'm
just talking to you personally now.

K: No, no, look Scoop, I understand this and I have a . . . John Lehman
has a draft here, I don't know whether you have seen this already . . .

Re: TELECON 7/27/72 10:35am
in the House of Representatives.

6/21/72
NASA, Date 5/13/64

TELECON

Sen. Jackson, 7/27/72, 10:35am

The President's Office has received a telephone call from the Vice-Secretary of State. Please hear from him.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12939, Sept. 3.6

By: K.M.Y. NARA. Date: 5/13/72

J: Yes that's ... I've been working with ...

K: And we can, not only can we live with that, we sort of welcome that.

J: Well you should welcome it because ...

K: In fact, we'd prefer it a little if you took the lead in it because we don't want, because of our Russian relations, to be the people who asked for it.

J: No well, I can take the lead ...

K: But we won't fight it.

J: No, I have to have an understanding that the President will talk to someone like Hugh Scott and some others to give it some kind of support. Otherwise, I'll tell you Gordon Allott, a number of us up here ...

K: Well, let's see. We'll talk to Hugh Scott.

J: Yeah, but I mean to get your support on it. Because you don't want to say that Jackson is just up here ...

K: What we will do, we'll do anything short of having our name in the paper as having supported this.

J: You mean to come put publicly.

K: Yeah, yeah.

J: You don't have to come out publicly as long as the word is sent up here.

K: We will get the word up to the Hill.

J: So that we get real support on it.

K: We don't want however to get too many refinements on numbers ...

J: There's one clause, number 5, that's not listed as 5 but instead it is actual 5, whereas ... we can work out ... there's only one I think that I get back from my people in talking with John and I guess he's talked with you. We can work that around out.

K: We have no trouble saying something like that we're in favor of equal limitations on strategic forces, you know that doesn't exclude throw-aways but it doesn't make it that specific.

J: But the problem is numbers and throw-aways, you know.

TELECON

Telecon, New York, N.Y.
Date: 7/27/72
Facsimile: N.Y. State
Municipal Call

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12950, Sept. 3.6

By: KHLV
NARA. Dated: 5/12/04

K: Right, well we just don't want to mention numbers and throw-aways so we just use the equal limitation.

J: Well let's negotiate that one.

K: But why don't we negotiate this. Scoop, it would be absurd in this period if you and we were at loggerheads.

J: Well you know, look, here I get stuck with these impossible tasks. First I had the __________

K: I want to talk to you when it's all over, and it is all over from that point of view, I'll talk to you about that ABM some time. Because that was a combination of military, of JCS stupidity, ACDA, trickery . . .

J: Well, we've got to talk about this delegation; we've got to talk about getting the best strategic minds . . .

K: Look let's have breakfast next week.

J: All right.

K: How about Thursday.

J: Well, let me get back to you; we'll see where we are here on this thing.

K: Okay.

J: I'll get back to you but can John Lehman work with my man on this.

K: John Lehman will work with your man and we will back you up with our leadership.

J: And I want, the key thing . . . you're going to be gone now I understand.

K: No, I'll be here.

J: You're going to be here. Well, all right, I thought maybe you were going to be away for a bit. Well very good, let us work out the details but I want you to be sure to get the word to the people up here and I want the President to . . .

K: I'll be out of town tomorrow.

J: You'll be out of town tomorrow.

K: I'll be at Camp David, though, so I'm reachable

J: Right. All right. Now you see we've got the Trident fight and it's damn close and I frankly just held off on this . . .

TELECON

Sen. Jackson, 7/27/72 10:35am

-5-

K: We need your support on that.

J: These are a couple of Senators. We've had a hell of a time on these damn hearings on SALT, you know what's been going on.

K: Oh god damn, well we're going to make a change there.

J: It's just been awful; the people can't answer questions and I'm trying . . . everything I've done in these hearings is to strengthen your hand in SALT-II. I just think we go to SALT-II naked we're going to be in the damnedest situation you ever could hope for.

K: Scoop if we had only problems like you this job would be a pleasure.

J: I understand but the whole thrust of what language I want here is to strengthen your hand in SALT-II so we can get back to something more than a minimum situation.

K: I'll send Lehman over there and let's you and me get together next week.

J: All right, very good.

K: Good.

J: Bye.

Re: your phone call to Joan Braden
Date: 7/27/72
Time: 11:00am
Origin: TELECON

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Seci. 3.6

TELECON

Joan Braden

7/27/72 1:00pm

B: Hi.

K: Joanie, how are you.

B: Nice of you to call me. You know there are two things I keep meaning to say and I really can't say in front of people. One of them, I wanted to remind you, you know David Bruce is now taking 9 hours of Italian a day. And I have no idea whether what... and I don't want to know, but he would love to be Ambassador to Italy and I just think you ought to know it. End of this conversation.

Next conversation, I've seen Mrs. Longworth a lot lately. And I really worry about her. And when I left her yesterday she said to me, and you know I told her, I don't know why but I talked about you, so at the end she said would you please tell Henry that as a favor to you he could see me, that kind of conversation. So some time during the next weeks, if you would call her and say that if she wants to go to dinner... no you don't have to say that, but just say you were thinking of her, or anything.

K: I'll call her.

B: You know what I mean?

K: Absolutely.

B: Okay, I just meant I didn't want to say it tomorrow night.

K: You're a great friend. See you tomorrow night.

B: I'm going to go see Nelson in two minutes.

K: Give him my love.

B: I will. Okay.

K: Bye.

Re: a phone call with the president

Tom, See if I can get a copy of

Nepalese stuff?

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 1293, Sept. 3.6

TELCONE

Gerard Smith/Kissinger

3:16 p.m. - 7/27/72

By: KHLW NASA Date: 5/12/74

S: ...have a site for SALT II. You know we put the ____ off on the Geneva idea. They've come back now and that's agreeable to them. In your memo you said "Don't make any flat commitments until the President has a last chance to decide it." and we - is there a decision on that?

K: Let me raise it with him. I am sure it will be agreeable but just let me raise it.

S: All right. I had Gartsov (?) tell Vorontsov that we may have some housekeeping difficulties in Geneva if we're going to start in as we hope in October.

K: How about Lausanne (?), ?

S: That's a long way to spend three months in a place like Lausanne but even so it's a question you know of getting Seabees and getting a lot of secure space and there's a building problem. I pointed out that there may be a conflict between wanting to start in October and wanting to go to Switzerland and which of that we'd probably think of one last run in Vienna.

K: OK. I'll raise it with the President.

S: Thank you.

TELECON

Peter Lisagor

7/27/72 5:35pm

K: Peter?

L: Yeah, hi.

K: It's not often that I talk to non-Jewish people these days. I wanted to talk to you for a minute about the column you wrote, not to get you to change it but simply off the record as a point of honor.

L: Right, what column are you talking about now?

K: Well you wrote one which I read in the New York Post yesterday.

L: Oh those bastards, they run things as columns when I write simple overnighters you know, that's what they must have done.

K: Yeah, well I read it as a column.

L: Yeah right.

K: And I simply wanted to have you make understand that in the three and a half years here I have never seen a Jewish group or talked to Jewish leaders until this week and this week it happened because I... I didn't call anybody. I think you had it in there that I called people individually.

L: No, no, no Henry. You must have confused that with something else you've read.

K: No, but you did write that I had told Jewish leaders that the President was the best friend that Israel had ever had.

L: Yeah, right, I did write that.

K: Well, I don't think you can find anybody in this country to whom I've ever made such a remark or implied such a thing.

L: Well Henry, if that wasn't the case that was what I was told and I apologize to you.

K: Peter, you're a conscientious guy and one article isn't going to... if it were on any other subject I wouldn't be so sensitive but simply for your information, and not really to get you change it, what happened on yesterday's thing was that Gus Levy... Taft Schreiber called me about three months ago on behalf of Gus Levy whether I'd be willing to meet with a group of financial leaders and other leading executives to talk to them about foreign policy. I frankly didn't know who Gus Levy was. I called Nelson Rockefeller and said is he respectable guy. Nelson said he is one of the leading financiers in Wall Street and that he will get a respectable group together. Now, as Hugh Sidey can tell you, I occasionally meet with groups like this, John Diebold got

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.5

6/21/72 JMLW NASA Date 5/12/04

TELECON

Peter Lisagor, 7/27/72 5:35pm

A group like this together for me a year ago . . .

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.5

6/21/72 NASA Date 5/12/72

L: Henry, I know that. I know you do and the only problem here was one of appearances.

K: Exactly, which were lousy and for which . . . which mortify me.

L: Yeah, right. And you know if I were the only to have written about this . . .

K: I'm calling everyone.

L: But you know, a whole group of people . . .

K: I'm not saying you persecuted me; you wrote exactly the right thing based on the information you had.

L: Now I'm just saying that the appearances . . . I accept your account of this and I accept it sincerely, but the appearances are of somebody at least thinking this is a useful way to stimulate not only ______ but interest among community leaders.

K: Well, be that as it may, whatever interest had been stimulated by that one appearance will never be stimulated again and . . .

L: I know about your meetings with business groups. I know about other groups as well. There's the kind that you're talking about, about TIME and others that you've met with cause I've had some friends that have attended them and that's perfectly all right.

K: That's exactly what I did with these people and I did not make a pitch to them.

L: Well I'm sorry about the best friend thing, but that's the way I was told . . .

K: Peter, really I'm not asking you to . . . I'm really not even complaining because this was not a malicious article.

L: No, this was more broad anyhow than your own activities; it involved the Secretaries of State and Defense as well.

K: No, but I really feel that this government is going to have to continue after November 7, I don't mean this Administration necessarily, and there have got to be a few of us who try to keep some continuity and keep some issues above politics.

L: Well Henry I'm not sure that you can avoid, because of the nature of this campaign, that is the Secretaries of the two Departments, because McGovern is making this an issue. Now, I think I put that in my artiele -- I don't remember just how I phrased it. But that he made this fair game for

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.6

The telephone system of the Air Force
is being replaced by a new system.

TELECON

Peter Lisagor, 7/27/72 5:35pm

By: K.L.V. NASA Date: 5/13/74

-3-

them somebody's got to, I think I quoted somebody as saying that we've
got tox got to defend our policies, you see, so it's unique in a respect but
it does differ sharply sharply from what past practice has been.

K: Look, I didn't think it was an unfair article.

L: Well I should have perhaps called you but . . .

K: I wanted you to know the spirit in which I'm going to try to conduct my office. Inevitably if our policies get too violently attacked and since obviously I think they are right and want to preserve them I may get drawn into a factual defense of this or that policy, but I will not do it by appealing to special interest groups.

L: Well this was unfortunate Henry and I think you recognize that it has the appearance at least of you being in a position of being used to help stimulate interest in money.

K: The appearances were bad and, on an off the record basis . . .

L: This is all off the record as far as I'm concerned.

K: You can be sure as far as I'm concerned, the facts are bad. I can assure you none of the guys who arranged these meetings are ever going to arrange a thing for me again.

L: Yeah, right. Henry, I accept this and I'm glad to have the opportunity to talk to you and I would like to ask you something now. You know Milt Freudenheim, don't let that name scare you.

K: No, I know him.

L: He's our Paris correspondent. And he's going to be in town on the week of August 7 and he's going to be here for two days and he's very eager to drop in and chat with you for a short time.

K: Sure, have him call Dick Campbell.

L: Right, or may I call him and see what can be set up because he's not in town yet. He won't be until the actual Monday, you see.

K: You call him and get it fixed up.

L: All right, fine. I appreciate the call and I take it in the spirit in which I know you intended it.

K: Absolutely, it's not a complaint.

L: Well we're both too civilized to take it any other way and I do regret

TELECON

Peter Lisagor, 7/27/72 5:35pm

-4-

going for that remark because the remark tended to ______ the point.

K: I think if you ask people who were actually present you will find that I made no comparisons; I did not attack anybody else and for that matter I didn't even talk about the Middle East at all.

L: Well I know how careful you've been to disassociate yourself from that in the public sense for the obvious reasons, and that's why that ______

K: Yeah, it's painful to me.

L: That you've begun to talk about a problem that you've studiously avoided.

K: Well, I haven't really talked about it so much. The only place where it was mentioned at all was in that Beverly Hills affairs.

L: That's the one I referred to.

K: It was mentioned at all because I didn't speak; I just answered questions.

L: Well but obviously they want to know about Israel and the Middle East.

K: They asked about it.

L: Well Henry I do appreciate the call and I'll be more careful about these things in the future.

K: That kind of thing you won't have occasion to worry about in the future.

L: Okay, good to talk to you, I'll see you later.

K: Right.

Reclassified. Source: The Open Source Project
U.S. Department of Defense
Proprietary Use

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 1295A, Sect. 3.6

6/21/72
NASA Date 5/12/04

TELECON
Secretary Connally

7/27/72 3:58pm

C: Hello.

K: John.

C: Yes sir, Henry.

K: Where did I get you.

C: Out at the ranch; I'm at home.

K: John, I sat at dinner next to Ken Jamieson yesterday and this thing is a little more complex that we just thought. King had in fact written a letter to the President, which puts himself behind this plan so there's no sense attempting to go around him out of the blue. What we now have to do is, and the only plan that has a chance of working, in answering the letter we send an emissary out there to deliver a reply and get it to King that way. Now, I wanted to get your opinion whether you think that's a good idea.

C: Yes, I think it's probably a damn good idea. I don't know any other way you could. I don't know the content of the letter says.

K: Well he puts himself in effect behind his own Administration. Now Jamieson says that what we should reply is that we want a negotiation because he says they started with a similar demand from the Shah and came out all right. But then the next question is whom the hell can we send out with the reply. Course Jamieson says you are the guy we should send; I think myself but I wanted your judgment and I told this to Jamieson that in the political climate now it might be a little conspicuous.

C: Yes, I think it would be.

K: I mean I don't see how we can get you out there without getting a first class brouhaha going.

C: I don't either.

K: Well whom can we send?

C: Well first, let me tell you something that perhaps you don't know, and I don't know whether it would change anything at all but in the Madison Hotel in Washington as of this moment, there's a man, Saoud Haikal, the son of the King, who, according to a conversation he had had with Bob Herring, Chairman of the Board of Houston ____ and Power Company who went over to Saudi Arabia to talk to them about gas and building a methane plant over there, partners with the Saudi government, this man Emir Saoud Haikal has come to this country for the principal purpose of unoffically talking about Saudi Arabia oil policy and he has indicated that they're going to have a new minister of oil in the next 60 days.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

6/21/72 NASA Date 5/12/04

TELECON

Connally, 7/27/72 3:58pm

The President has spoken with the
President of the Republic.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.5

By: K.M. V

NARA. Data: 5/12/04

Now he wants to see somebody in the government. He specifically mentioned Rogers Morton and Lincoln assuming that they are the people in the government with whom he could talk about oil matters.

K: Why don't we send him to Shultz?

C: And I think he ought to talk to . . . at this point I think . . .

K: Well are you going to be up here?

C: Yeah, I'm going to try to see him Monday.

K: Well, why don't you see him.

C: But on the other hand, I don't know what your schedule is, you don't know the details of it I guess, but it looks like you ought to see him, without bringing anybody else into it.

K: All right, I'll see him Saturday morning. Can you arrange that or should I do it?

C: No, I can call and arrange it. I'll just call and tell him to call your office. He wants to do it on an unofficial basis.

K: That's exactly what I want.

C: And that's what you want, and I think we should keep it on an unofficial basis more, and that's all I know and I assume that information is correct.

K: That's why I asked whether you'd do it.

C: All right, I'll do it. I'll arrange it.

K: Well, let me talk to Jamieson with that information.

C: And then I'll see this man Monday morning.

K: Good and then let's hold out decision until then. And then let's you and me talk.

C: All right. And when I meet him I'll be thinking about who might go over there as a representative of this country. All that seems to me is that if this is one of the assignments that the President had in mind weeks and weeks ago, that's the only way you could justify my going.

K: That's right and that's how we would have to do it.

C: Otherwise it has a, you know, it has political implications that we ought not to have to try to explain.

TELECON

Connally, 7/27/72 3:58pm

~~Re: please try the again~~

~~I did not find any text in the image. Please check again!~~

~~Please check again!~~

OCLASSIFIED
E.O 32938, Sec. 3-6

6/21/72 WASH. DATE 5/12/04

K: Well my only problem is that in general I don't like to get a brawl started without knowing where the cards are.

C: I believe it.

K: And if we could get an initial reaction and send you in the second round it would seem to me a lot better.

C: I would sure agree with that. And I'll be thinking about who the hell we can go and send.

K: I mean I just am reluctant to go and use you up by sending you over there and getting you kicked in the teeth.

C: Yup, yup. Well, let me. . . let's talk to Saoud Haikal first cause hell they want to talk about this very thing and then we'll decide who to send over, okay?

K: Excellent.

C: All right, will you tell Ken that?

K: I will call him this minute.

C: Okay.

K: Good.

C: Thank you Henry.

K: Bye.

Re: [insert telephone number here]
to the Sen. or [insert name of person] Re: [insert telephone number]

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.6

TELCOM

Ken Jamieson/Kissinger

4:21 p.m. - 7/27/72

K: Hello.

J: Hello Dr. Kissinger how are you this morning?

K: Okay how are you? I have talked to John Connally and he pointed out to me that a son of the King is in town. Did you know that?

J: Yes Am ______.

K: And that he claims that the Oil Minister is going to replaced within sixty days.

J: Yamani ______?

K: Yes

J: We haven't heard any sign of that. We think he is in a very strong position.

K: Well at any rate the way John feels - John is going to talk to him on Monday. I will talk to him on Saturday morning. John feels that we should hold up a final decision - he agrees that the plan to send a letter back is a good idea. He said he might be willing to go if we asked him as one of the President's ______ but he agrees with my judgment that we should first get the letter out there to see where the cards are stacked and then move him out there so that at least we know what we are operating with. Rather than get him kicked in the teeth. But he is going to thing about a possible person to send out there. He is in the same dilemma you are. But at any rate our next moves are going to be that I will talk to him.

J: You are going to talk to him on Saturday?

K: That's right.

J: And John on Monday.

K: Exactly. And then we will know.

Re: [goddesses,] what is going on?
It's like, some kind of civil
Melancholy State.

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12950, Sec. 3.6

Telcon
Ken Jamieson/Kissinger
4:21pm - 7/27/72

Page 2

By: KM, V
NASA Date: 5/12/04

J: Now, as I mentioned last night one of the problems that we have is that Yamani is telling me the ARAMCO people that you got to have a meeting with me before August no later than August 7th.

K: Right, can't you get that delayed.

J: Well we are going to try that. The ARAMCO people are due in New York tonight. We are going to try and defer that. But you never know what this damn Yamani is going to do. But we will certainly try that.

K: That is what I would recommend.

J: Try and defer it to something like - just go back to him and tell him we can't meet before August 15 and see what happens.

K: I would be inclined to say the 21st.

J: Could I call you say on Monday sometime?

K: Yes.

J: I say that because I am going away over the weekend and -

K: No that is a good idea - call me Monday evening.

J: About 5:00 or something like that?

K: That's right.

J: Alright will do Dr. Kissinger.

K: Good

J: Thank you very much, appreciate all your help - we should need it.

K: None at all I am doing this for the country.

J: Right - thank you.
I'll call you then Monday evening.

K: Bye

J: Bye

DECLASSIFIED

Authority F012507
By: CNAR Date 05/27/72

Telcon
"D"/Kissinger

7/27/72 - 7:45pm

K: Hello

D: Hello how are you?

K: You sould very put out - did I interrupt something important?

D: No I was just having a nice dinner with my wife, and she sends you her greetir

K: I am losing my mind - I wanted you to sign this interpreted statement.

D: When?

K: Well I wanted you to sign this afternoon then I forgot to bring it over.
You are coming tomorrow?

D: Maybe we could do it - when your meeting tomorrow?

K: No, no I will be at Camp David tomorrow for this meeting that I
told you about.

D: It will be tomorrow?

K: Yeah.

D: But will you be in the brief ceremony dealing with the ______
business?

K: Where is that that is in the White House isn't it?

D: Yes.

K: How about stopping in and seeing Haig and I will have it signed and
you just sign a copy.

D: After the ceremony? Well unless someone volunteers to meet me there -
they will not let me wander around the White House. Let Haig come to me.
The ceremony will be in the Cabinet Room. When it is over Haig could
just pick out me and I will come and we will do it.

K: Okay good enough. I will have my copy signed. It is exactly the text you
which you suggested.

D: Yes, that is quite right. It will be English text of course?

K: Yes and then if you want to bring your Russian text.

Telcon
"D"/Kissinger

7/27/72 - 7:45pm

Re: telephone call to the open lab

right now at 4:00 pm

Macroecon Data?

OCLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.6

By: KHLW NAVA Date: 5/23/04

K: Hello

D: Hello how are you?

D: No I was just having a nice dinner with my wife, and she sends you her greetin

D: When?

D: It will be tomorrow?

K: Yeah.

D: Yes.

Telcon
"D"/Kissinger
7/27/72 - 7:45 pm

Re: Meeting with the President to discuss the
President's plan for a national
publicity campaign?

OCLASSIFIED
E.O 12958, Sec. 3.6

By: KMLW
NASA Date: 5/12/04

Page 2

D: And you will sign it the next time

K: Yes. I will give you a copy and we will keep a copy here. I put it on very informal paper.

D: I understand. I think that is alright let Gen Haig tomorrow approach me and then after the ceremony I will come and we will go over it.

K: My apologies to Mrs. D and tell her Margerita sends her regards.

D: She already asked me where ________. I said yes
I will try to find it. (Could not understand this part.)

K: No, we are working on it and you will get it. It is really - purely bureaucratic. You have my assurance that within the next two or three weeks. I have been out of town. By the time I go to Moscow you will have that money.

D: Okay. We will be with you next Friday. You will be back in town to my knowledge on Thursday.

K: Wednesday morning.

D: Wednesday morning.

K: I will be in town through Sunday and then I will be back Monday morning. I will be gone only Monday and Tuesday.

D: Okay Henry.

K: Good, bye

D: Bye

Telcon
"D"/Kissinger

7/27/72 - 7:45 pm

Page 2

D: She already asked me where ____________. I said yes
I will try to find it. (Could not understand this part.)

K: Wednesday morning.

D: Wednesday morning.

D: Okay Henry.

K: Good, bye

D: Bye

DECLASSIFIED

Authority Folsom
By L.J. NARA Date 6-20-72

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.L. V NASA Date: 5/13/72

Telcon
Don Kendall/Kissinger

9:15 - 7/28/72

K: Hello.

D: Hi Henry.

K: Don, how are you?

D: Very well, thank you.
You asked for a call when you got back about our getting together

KX and I wanted to see when it would be convenient.

K: Week after next.

D: The week of the 7th.

K: Right

D: Fine.

K: You want to call or have your office call in the middle of the week?

D: IN the middle of that week?

K: In the middle of this week. This coming week. Say next Wednesday or Thursday.

D: OKay.

K: Good I would love to see you.

D: Okay Henry.

K: Do you want me to go to China again to get some more concessions from the Russians?

D: As a matter I would like your advice as to when you think I ought to make the move there, I don't want to move too fast until the effect of my Russian deal is settled you see I have to work in the reverse you have the private kind of thing before you can make your move, but I have the opposite problem.

K: It works either way it makes no difference.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.5

H. O. Deaton, D.S. in psychology, Ph.D. in psychology, Ph.D. in psychology, Ph.D. in psychology

Telcon
Don Kendall/Kissinger

9:15 - 7/28/72

By: K.H. ✓ NASA Date: 5/12/74

D: Yes but I don't think I can make another move until I have got this other one wrapped up.

K: Absolutely not.

D: But actually one thing I want to talk to you about Henry is what are you going to do when you get through this life of yours in government and what you have got in mind because I have - you have been done a hell of a job and you are going to have to make some source of income and I would like to at least make one move in that direction to insure some of it.

K: Why don't we get together the middle of the week after next.

D: Okay.

K: Maybe have lunch.

D: Okay

K: Good

D: Alright Henry

K: Bye

["TELECON", "Rowland Evans", "7/28/72 2:52pm", "K: Yes Rowlie.", "E: How are you sir.", "K: I don't often talk to non-Jewish people; what do you want.", "E: How did you like our column?", "K: Not particularly.", "E: We had some awful nice things to say about you.", "K: What did you have to say about me that was good?", "E: Adjectives: redoubtable. There's no official in Washington that could pull an adjective like that out of Evans and Novak column.", "K: I see.", "E: Have you had any repersussions from all that stuff?", "K: Yeah, it was damaging.", "E: Oh now really?", "K: Of course. And this was not, and above all that was not what this thing was organized for, you know, certainly not by me.", "E: Yeah well, I saw that the New York Times had photographers there, at the luncheon.", "K: Yeah, I know.", "E: Listen Henry, that's not what I called you about. Let me tell you, don't worry about that. That is a passing thing.", "K: It is a point of honor; it had nothing to do with, you know . . .", "E: Yeah, I know it did, yeah, okay. I just want to ask you one question Henry and if you can tell me I'd appreciate it. And it was off our breakfast conversation the other morning. As you know, the State Department, Sisco saw Rabin yesterday, and I am told that there's a serious prospect that we're going to push hard for these, what do they call them, proximity talks.", "K: Nonsense.", "The New York Times reported that Rowland Evans, Rowland Evans, Rowland Evans, Row

TELECON

Rowland Evans, 7/28/72, 2:52pm

-2-

E: Well that's what I wanted to get. Yeah, it is nonsense.

K: Well look Rowlie I want to be honest with you. If by now people don't know the difference between who does the pushing and who gets results I can't help you. I can't tell you who will push.

E: No, I got it.

K: But this is not the time.

E: Yeah, that's what we agreed to.

K: What I told you yesterday morning is our policy and it will be carried out if in a slightly indirect way.

E: Well I just don't see anything happening between now and the election; it's just not the right time.

K: I think that would be the reasonable assumption.

E: Okay, it was fun seeing you at dinner the other night.

K: I enjoyed it; it was a great evening.

E: I think Buchwald's plan is one that we shouldn't ever surface, but it's a good plan.

K: Well I'll make communism the issue.

E: To run A.D. for Vice President.

K: I would make communism the issue then.

E: Okay, I'll see you when you get back from Maine.

K: Oh are you going up there?

E: Yes sir, I'm going to take a few days off for the first time since December.

K: For how long?

E: Next week; I'm leaving tomorrow and coming back a week from Sunday.

K: Good, give me a call when you get back Rowlie and thanks for the evening.

E: Well I sure will give you and call and we'll do it again soon.

K: Good.

E: Thank you Henry.

K: Bye.

["TELECON\nNelson Rockefeller", "7/28/72 2:58pm", "H. W. S. M. T. A. P. O. B. A. T. A. P. O. B. A. T. A. P. O. B. A

TELECON
Nelson Rockefeller

7/28/72, 2:58pm

R: Oh God.

K: But we have just resolved that in favor of the previous thing. And I have to check whether notification has yet gone out.

R: Well Henry this could save both politically and financially our whole Long Island-New York area and it would be . . . save the company.

K: Well let me take a look at exactly where it stands. I'll call you tomorrow.

R: Oh you're great.

K: I know that the order has been signed; I just don't know where it stands.

R: Oh God, if this came through now it would be the hottest, greatest thing and it would save the company from bankruptcy and also save the F-14 which otherwise I'm afraid can be lost.

K: Let me take a look at where that stands.

R: Oh you're marvelous.

K: I'll call you tomorrow.

R: Well you're just great and I loved seeing you.

K: It was great to see you.

R: Henry, wonderful, thanks.

K: Bye.

R: Okay, bye-bye.

6/28/72 NASA Data 5/12/04

TELECON

Irving Lazar

7/28/72 3:54pm

K: Hello.

L: Hello Henry, how are you?

K: Okay.

L: I hope you're persevering. It's 102 degrees here today.

K: Well I can't feel too sorry for West Coast heat waves; it least it cools off during the night, doesn't it?

L: Yes it does. Listen, I called you about something which is personal but I was going to wait to see you but then I thought I'd better tell you about it. When I was in Paris last all of the publishers, the leading publishers like ______ and Presse de le Cite and Gallimard said to me do you know Dr. Kissinger. I said yes I do. They said well you know we've never had a translation of any of his books in Paris. And I looked . . . I said to them Grosset and Dunlap published at least one or two and then I noticed that you had quite a number of publishers.

K: Yes.

L: Have you heard anything about that?

K: Have I heard . . .

L: I told them to contact the publishers then I thought it was a disservice to you because the publishers wouldn't really do it very well and these are the top publishers in Paris and as a matter of fact also in London who want to republish in French and in other countries for that matter, but specifically French is where it came in contact with me. Is that of any interest to you?

K: Yeah, in principle, yes.

L: Would you like me to do something about it.

K: Well are you sure that none of my books have been translated into French; I think some have.

L: Well I can only tell that the two major publishers that spoke to me had no record nor could they find any that had been done in French. They were especially interested in Bismarck and in Metternich.

K: No, that has not been, that I am sure of.

L: Well those are the ones. But I think all of them in this area of your current interest makes it viable for them and they're very much concerned.

TELECON

Lazar, 7/28/72 3:54pm

-2-

K: Well if you want to look into it, I think it's probably on a scale smaller than the one you usually operate.

L: My dear Henry, nothing would please me more. It's not on any small scale. It's not a question of commissions; it's a question of having tried. The fact of the matter is I was going to talk to you. Do you mind if I tell you something on a personal level?

K: Not at all.

L: I'll tell you this: When I made an arrangement for at least two people, one was involving Herman Wouk and the other was involving Truman Capote. In Truman Capote's case he was able to elicit three-quarters of a million dollars in stock in his contract for two novels which ended up in ________ to preserve as a capital gain a considerable sum of money. It can be done and as a matter of fact in Wouk's case it involved over a million dollars. In stock of Time-Life, which owns Little-Brown. In your case, I can tell you now, I have been told by three major publishers with very conglomerate stock interests that at any time that you are ready to discuss a book of your own, and this not necessarily as a critique on your association with the President, nothing like that, just your own viewpoint of international politics we're talking about now -- perhaps we have to discuss some other areas -- but it would in no way be necessary or required or even expected that you would express a viewpoint of the President of the United States, both now or in the event that he were elected and you did not choose to retain your position. We're now talking about three million dollars; I once told you in a rather jocular way at the Kirk Douglases that they were interested in two million; let me tell you, it's closer to three million. It's a lot of money. It's never been done before, but I can tell you that's what it would be worth. And if you just think about it, one of these days, not very long from now, either you'll be coming here or I'll be coming to New York, I would like to come down to Washington and just spend a little time and discuss it with you.

K: Well, I'd be delighted.

L: Well what I speak of is not out of some ________ but rather from precise experience, that we have been able to accomplish.

K: Well I would be interested to talk to you to talk to you about this

L: I would be flattered beyond words; that's all I can tell you. At any rate what I will do for the moment is some of your books are out of print but I can get copies. If I find that I cannot, even from the publisher.

K: I have some extra ones around.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12939, Sec. 3.6

6/24/72

NASA, Date 5/13/04

TELECON

Lazar, 7/28/72 3:54pm

-3-

L: But if you could do something for me which would expedite matters considerably is if you would have your secretary send to me, if you have some letters from me but I can give you the address; it's 211 South Beverly Drive, Beverly Hills. If you would be nice enough to send me a copy of each I can tell you now that somewhere along the line . . . I'm talking about only a major publisher like Robert L'Font or Claude Gallimard or Press de la Cite, it would be a top publisher, we'll have an offer for you and then we'll see how interesting it is.

K: Okay.

L: Also I do think that if there has not been translation in France, Belgium, Holland and also parts of Switzerland, but I do know if it hasn't been done in Italian then I am positive that they will be ______ interested in that.

K: You know, I'll be on the West Coast, but you will be K in Europe, the last week of August and first week in September.

L: I may delay my departure and wait for you.

K: I'll be there from the . . .

L: I may do this, I may do this Henry, what I'll probably do is this. If I could come to New York the second week in August I could come down to Washington then.

K: That's another possibility.

L: Well I will do that. As long as . . . It's obvious that you might not be anywhere in the United States between the time you come out here, but I'll contact you about the 10th or 12th of August and if I'm going to be in Washington, I'll simply fly to Washington.

K: That might be a good idea.

L: I can see you before I go to Europe.

K: Good, excellent.

L: But in any event, will you send those books on to me?

K: All of them?

K: Yes, all of them.

K: Okay.

Re: [REDACTED] Phone: 213-654-1111
E-mail: [REDACTED]
Title: [REDACTED]

OCLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

By: KMLN
NWSN Date: 5/12/04

KXXXX

Lazar, 7/28/72 3:54pm

-4-

L: Then I'll ascertain just where they've been published and what's been done and how . . . I'll go forward. Also there's one other element and that is I presume that you retained the rights for . . . that when you sold the rights to publication it was only for the United States and Canada.

K: To tell you the truth I'm not sure.

L: I'll find out; if you'll send me the books I'll find out.

K: Okay, good.

L: I can do all of that myself.

K: Good, excellent.

L: Nice to talk to you and I'll check you out and come into New York or Washington sometime around the 16th, 17th or 18th of August.

K: That would be good.

L: Terrific.

K: Right.

L: Bye.

Reproduced with permission from the original
all rights reserved
Copyright Clearance Center

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sect. 3.6

By KXLW NARA, Date 5/12/04

TELECON

Hamilton Fish Armstrong

7/28/72 4:07pm

K: Ham, how are you?

A: I'm pretty well. I'm having a lot of trouble with arthritis which is something new.

K: Oh I'm distressed to hear that.

A: And the doctors can do nothing.

K: I understand that's so.

A: Henry, one awfully nice thing. I think Mac Bundy told me he and you were thinking of having a small dinner.

K: Absolutely.

A: I think it's an awfully nice idea and I'd love to do it.

K: Well it's one of the few dinners that I'm going to be attending this year that I'll really want to attend. I won't want to attend it for the occasion but just for the pleasure of being with you.

A: No, I know. Well, it's terribly nice of you and I'd like it to be small and informal and no speeches and all of that, I'm sure the way you'd like it.

K: Well it will be small and informal. I cannot 100 percent promise you no speeches.

A: Well you know they're having a big dinner and it's something that Manning and David Rockefeller will be dining at and they are...

K: I shouldn't think it was your style.

A: They'll get off platitudes. I don't know or like either of them much and I dare say it will mean nothing and...

K: Ham, this other dinner is only people who love you and who owe a great deal to you.

A: Well Henry, thank you very much. In that spirit I think it's... I'm perfectly delighted about it. Now, Mac spoke of several dates in that week of September whatever it is and I could do it I think any night, the earlier in the week the better.

K: Well I will accept it... I've already told Mac or I've had my office tell him. I gave him a preferred date, but I'll do it on any date.

Re: Meeting with the open end to the South of the month and November 1st?

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.5

6p, V, NASA Date 5/12/04

Armstrong, 7/28/72 4:07pm

-2-

A: Well, the 18th is a Monday and Tuesday the 19th, either date is awfully good for me. ______ is very good for me because it's the date we publish our anniversary issue.

K: The 19th would be better for me.

A: Well could we settle on that tentatively.

K: Let's settle on that.

A: That's lovely. Now the other very important thing is your article.

K: Oh God yeah.

A: Yeah. Now you needn't do a big article. And I think it ought to be something, I don't like to use the word "philosophical", but something that you think in general about American policy, not about . . .

K: My trouble is time Ham.

A: I know it is; I can imagine that. But this is the kingpin of this issue. It really is.

K: Well, let me make another . . . I started it once and I've just never had the time to finish it.

A: Well I'm sure that you could write what would be six or eight pages in Foreign Affairs only without too much trouble about what are the pitfalls that we've fallen into and will fall into partly because of the organization of the government and partly because the United States people are like that. You know? We're trying to exaggerate an impulse and that's very dangerous.

K: Ham, I will do my damnedest.

A: Well Henry, I really trust you will because I think of it as really, and it would be a feature of this issue.

K: Well I will do my damnedest and I'll be in touch with you within a week.

A: All right, and I could put off the date until the 12th or if necessary we'll hold it over a little and put it out later than that.

K: You're a great friend.

A: Henry, you're the great friend. I appreciate this very much but I know the pressure you're under.

K: Well, it's not the calmest period.

A: No. All right. I won't hold you any more.

Huygens-Huysenaan the open sea
in the dark of night
Replica of a seal?

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.5

Telcon
Clark MacGregor

7/28/72 5:07p.m.

6/24/72 NASA Date 5/12/04

K: Hello

M: Hello Henry

K: I hope your political confidence is better than your German.

M: My German is excellent. You have been away from it so long you don't recognize excellent German when you hear it.

K: Clark, about the McGovern statement - you wanted to make. Let me give you the following strong advice. Let's treat him you know like a desperate guy who is trying to divert attention. Let's not call on him to repudiate anything. Let's just say that this is a man who desperately trying to divert attention a week after the private talks with the North Vietnamese he is accusing his President of deception. And it is Hanoi no wonder that Radio Hanoi is saying that this is - you see what I mean?

M: Yes, now let me tell you what I have done. Al Haig called me back - and Al Abrams who had come over today - this was his first day and he has had a good baptism today. Al Abrams is a very astute operative - used to be on Rockefeller's staff. But more recently he has been Don Rumsfeld and George Shultz's right arm on the executive.

K: Send him over here and we will write something with him because there will be developments that will make him look more and more like an ass or we will maneuver him into the position that we can blame him with any peace developments that don't occur.

M: Good Henry. Al Abrams is going to <u>Al Haig(?)</u> right now and he will come over if you and Al want him to.

K: Right and we can telephone him in the next fifteen minutes.

M: Good

K: Thank you

M: Bye

It is possible to open this message in
any other program than Microsoft Word.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

Telcon
Senator Javits/Kissinger

7/28/72 - 5:24 pm

By: K.L. V. NASA Date: 5/23/73

K: Hello

J: Henry how are you?

K: Jack, how are you?

J: Oh fine, thank you. Listen Henry I sent the man off as I set him up and he went off this evening.

K: Good

J: He will be back Wednesday or Thursday. So it will be interesting to see what he produced.
We worked it all out with Haig and we told Sisco about it.
So everybody is content.

Now the other thing that I wanted to ask you is this - when we were in Italy staying with ______ whom you know the ______ she had us meet some Italian gentlemen who apparently worked for the State television in Italy and were very anxious to do a thing on you apparently very authoritative and substantial people. I said I didn't know whether you had done anything like that for any foreign radio or Telvision network.

K: What do you mean? Do an interview?

J: You know kind of a little interview with you as to how your personality how you work. They would do it in a very gentlemanly way and would submit the questions to you etc. It is apparently a very solid operation. Carlo P ______ is the manager of this particular program. It is a national program in Italy, apparently very reputable and substantial operation. A state television network. And I just didn't know -

K: Well I think I better not do anything until the election is over.

M: Well I think that would be satisfactory to them too so that if it is not out of the ballpark why don't I send you a copy of the memo that they gave me. I think the date thing is fine for them. Then you could have it before you and come to a conclusion when the time came.

K: Excellent.

H. W. SHERMAN
President of the Republic

Department of Defense

U.S. Government

Inter部

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

By: K.L.Y. NARA Date: 5/23/74

Telcon

Prof Doty/Kissinger

7/28/72 - 6:07 pm

K: Hello

D: Henry?

K: Paul, how are you?

D: Very good, how are you?

K: Okay.

D: Still busy.

K: Yes, pretty busy. How was Moscow?

D: Oh it was quite good there was certainly a stamp of your having been there.

K: More what?

D: Bought a stamp of your having been there.

K: Oh good.

D: It was all very sensible and I think there wasn't any great revelation but there was certainly an adult discussion of things coming up. We also made a summary which he sent to you and I guess that more than half of it - enough things collectively I think to be of some use in making the next choices.

K: Well maybe we could before the Republican Convention. I mention this only as a date because after that I go to the West Coast. Unless you are going to be on the West Coast.

D: Well we are going to be getting around a fair amount - I am going to be in As ______ after the 4th of August. But certainly half of us could get together almost any time.

K: Well why don't we aim for the end of the month in San Clemente then.

D: The end of August?

Okay that would be quite good. Three or four of us could come out - that would certainly cover it.

K: Good let's do that. Would you be in touch with Dick Campbell of my office?

Telcon
Charles Evans/Kissinger

7/28/72 - 6:52 p.m.

6/21/72 NASA Date 5/12/72

K: Hello

E: Henry?

K: Listen these bloody Evans brothers are getting to be a pain in the neck.

E: Jesus Christ, how are you Henry?

K: Okay.

E: I guess you heard what happen to me?

K: I know what it is from too.

E: Well you want to know something, I am going to rest for a few weeks.

K: Yeah.

E: It was ______ I got a good rest Friday.

K: Yeah I know I called you on Friday.

E: Yes I know - I got the message and I appreciate you calling ______
I go back next Friday and I have to stay home and recuperate
for four weeks and take it quiet.

K: Well I am glad - that everything is in order.

E: The danger is you know that you feel so good that you want to do something. I heard ______ Johnson went into the hospital day before yesterday and they released him yesterday.

K: Yeah.

E: How are you Henry?

K: I am fine.

E: Where are you, in Washington?

K: Yes. I am running around a great deal.

E: You are. Did you have any fun in California?

The President's Office in Hawaii

The State of Hawaii

Memorandum

7/28/72 - 6:52 p.m.

By: KH. V. NASA Date 5/23/04

K: Yeah, I had a good time. I am getting to a point of where I can't really go out in public without getting into every newspaper.

E: I saw one picture of you in Hawaii with a girly putting a lai around your neck. I said how in the hell could you ever pose for that damn thing. Remember the picture?

K: I didn't see the picture.

E: It was the first page of the "Post"

K: Well that was probably unavoidable

E: You were at the airport - I think you were on the way to Peking.

K: How is Bob?

E: Let me tell you about Bob. He came in from Europe yesterday to see me. They were here for a couple of hours yesterday.

K: Where are they now?

E: They are back in California and I think everything is alright. Today is the first day that Al____ is back seeing the other guy today.

K: Telling him it is over?

E: Yeah. Bob called me just a half hour ago and he said he just hoped ________. He is reasonably sure that everything is alright.

K: Well they wrote a very friendly note from Europe.

E: When you are with them Henry you assume that there are no too great a lovers. Bob tells me that when they are alone - ________.

K: Are they going to stay on the coast now.

E: Definitely. Bob hasn't put in a day's work in three months.

K: I will be on the coast in three weeks. I hope to see them then.

RECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.5

Telcon
Charles Evans/Kissinger
7/28/72 - 652pm

Page 3

E: You going out for the White House?

K: After the convention.

E: When is the convention.

K: Starting Thursday through the 24th 21st - the 24th of August.

E: Why don't you come out and spend a few days at the beach with me Henry?

K: I'll try to do that. But the first thing you have to do is get well.

E: I am going to be there and no one has to know that you are there.

K: Well why don't we talk after you are back there.

E: I am going to be there on Friday.

K: A week from today?

E: Do you have my number there?

K: Why don't you give it to me.

E: **SANITIZED** It is like a 30 minute flight from Manhattan. No one has to know you are there. I could arrange to have a guest and no one would know anything about it.

K: Well let me see. Well I will call you during the week to see how you are.

E: Thank you.

K: You take care of yourself.

E: What's going to happen - is Eagelton going to drop out?

K: I have no idea.

E: You would like to see him run though.

K: Frankly, I don't think it is good for the country to have that sort of thing hanging over them.

This message was sent on 7/28/72 and is a draft. Do not read it without a computer.

7/28/72 - 6:52 pm

By: KH.Y
NASA Date: 5/12/74

E: You don't think so?

K: I don't care.

E: Are you talking the whole ticket seriously?

K: Well you have to in our position. It is not the best ticket I have ever seen.

E: I don't think so.

K: And McGovern hasn't said an impressive thing yet.

E: Is there a chance of any important thing happening before

K: If everyone would shut up for a while. Well we will try. I have to run. I will call you next week sometime.

E: I won't be home.

K: Take care of yourself

E: Thank you Henry.

The President of the Republic of Vietnam

Publicity Staff

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.6

By: K.H.Y. NASA Date: 5/27/72

TELCOM

Mr. Kissinger/The President

7/29/72 10:10 a.m.

RN: Well, Henry, what's new today?

HAK: There aren't any major developments in the foreign field.

RN: There seems to be quite a bit of hard fighting in the Vietnam area, I noticed.

HAK: Yeh, there's hard fighting in military Region I, but my view is that whatever fighting they do now, they won't do two months from now.

RN: Sure.

HAK: But no major changes. There was no fighting outside of military Region I. -- None of any consequence. But they haven't launched a real attack yet.

RN: I guess that fire base Bastogne is getting that

HAK: Well no that firebase Bastogne they always expect to give up. They will make a minor effort to regain it, but that was never intended to be held seriously. They just moved off a few miles --the real defense is about for four miles further back in fire base Birmingham.

RN: Well the dike story, I guess, got out all right.

HAK: It got out all right, but of course, the Washington Post put a dirty headline on it--the NYT put a fairer headline on it.

RN: The NYT played it fairly, you couldn't complain about that. I don't think the country gives one damnabout these dikes. If they push it any further, I'll say now look, if they put anti-aircraft on there and start shooting down American planes, of course we are not going to risk American pilots.

HAK: And we have to consider the thing after November anyway, I wouldn't say that now.

RN: Right. I mean we may have to take them out.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

The New York Times and the Washington Post

Presidential Study?

6/21/64 NARA. Data 5/13/64

Page 2

HAK: I think after November, we must do what it takes to end this war--we must stop at nothing.

RN: Damn right and we aren't going to hesitate about anything.

HAK: We can't go through another two years.....

RN: We're saying the right things now. We have to use the necessary force and we have no question about using it.

HAK: I don't know what edition of the Washington Post you have, but apparently McGovern is now shafting Eagleton.

RN: I didn't hear that. I just talked to Bob a minute ago--he didn't know about it.

HAK: Oh yeh, McGovern has now late last night, held a press conference in which he has really pulled the rug out from under Eagleton.

RN:+ What did he say in effect Henry?

HAK: Can you hold on a half of second--I get it

RN: Sure.

HAK: The headline is--Post--final edition--McGovern ends Eagleton. He says there are three questions: Eagleton's mental health, the impact on the democratic ticket and the question of whether Eagleton should have told him the full details to him before his nomination as VP. In terms of political impact, McGovern remarked, "A poll might show that 99% supported Eagleton, but 1% who opposed him would still lose the election for the democrats in a close race...

RN: JC.

HAK: There is no way he can win.

RN: In other words, Eagleton's got to have 100%?

HAK: Right.

RN: Also he said he wouldn't make any decisions before Monday. "I'm not going to do anything until I talk to Eagleton".

Request for a copy of the original
of the same document
Nuclear Test?

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 1293, Sept. 3.6

By: KHLW NASA Date: 5/12/04

Page 3

HAK: Well, the whole thing was pulling the rug out from under him. And I think that's...

RN: Well.

HAK: I don't see how he can survive that.

RN: Not if his presidential candidate--at least, of course, I think McGovern is very ill-advised to do this. He shouldn't have any press conference at this point. What until he has made a decision and until he has talked to him. Don't do that to a man--that's damn cruel.

HAK: I think McGovern is throwing himself a tawdry guy and weak. First of all he says, here are three considerations--he could have mentioned welfare of the United States--is this man fit to be President?

RN: That's right.

HAK: His impact on the democratic ticket is less important. But I thought that what you said was the right strategy. That is, that either McGovern should have dropped him from the ticket from the ticket right away, saying this is an absolutely clean moral campaign and I can't have a man who lied or he should have stood behind him and gotten Eagleton to resign--not to waffle around between first supporting him and then pulling the rug out from under him is cruel.

RN: Yeh, like the first couple of days, he says, I am around him 1000%

HAK: and if I had known it it wouldn't have made a difference...

RN: Yeh, just take Henry the record what he said on this on twisting and turning and everything and that is something to say.

HAK: He hasn't done anything right yet.

RN: He is getting some help from the press, but if he really had the kind of a press that I get.

HAK: Mr. President, if you had behaved this way to an associate, they would have accused you of being brutal, selfish, machевillian

The Eagle News and Enterprise, St. Charles, Missouri
Published Daily

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

6/21/64 NASA Date 5/12/64

Page 4

RN: Right. They don't use this kind of word. The way they try to build him is they say this nice, kind, upstanding man --isnt it a shame that this Eagleton misled him--you always blame the first man--he is responsible for everything. You notice how the dame press the way they act is really something.

HAK: And the selfish way in which they are talking is so disgusting. The McGovern people say here I have worked for him two months and one guy is ruining it all for me.

RN: Incidentally, one story I wanted to ask you about to see if we were to do anything. I noticed that Eberle made various comment about the trade negotiations in Japan. They didn't look too good right at the moment or progress was disappointing. Are you watching that thing or is there anything there we should know? The main thing I want really--I don't want that meeting with Tanaka to come off and--I just hope that this is part of the strategy to wait--is there anything there we ought to know?

HAK: Let me check on that--I'm not sure. I think we can produce....

RN: Really, Henry, Eberle should not be making comments day to day as to how it is going.

HAK: Absolutely not; he's inexperienced.

RN: He works hard and does well, but my point is all of our people have got to learn the lesson of--that you don't have to talk to the press every time they ask. You don't give them anything. You just say look, I'm not going to talk about these negotiations. Particularly on this one because they have had all this talk about this billion dollar deal now and boy we want to get it or some kind of a deal.

HAK: I think we can. I think I should send one of my staff men who was with me when I talked to Tanaka. I'll have to talk to him to see what we can prepare.

RN: None of your staff people are with Eberle?

HAK: No.

December 29, 1973

John F. S. Kissinger

Revised 12/29/73

By: JMLV NASA Date 5/13/84

TELCOM

Art Buchwald/Mr. Kissinger

11:05 a.m. 7/29/72

HK: Sorry I couldn't get back to you yesterday.

AB: That's okay. What's your life look like?

HK: I don't think I can do it either this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon, what are you doing tomorrow night?

AB: Sunday night? Nothing. Come over.

HK: I couldn't come over say around 9:00?

AB: Sure, that's fine.

HK: But you're probably a much better player than I because I haven't really played in years.

AB: We'll find out.

HK: You devil. You won't tell me. How often do you play?

AB: I've been playing a little lately--but I don't play that often. I think the thing to do is find out.

HK: Okay.

AB: Nothing's lost. I won't tell anybody.

HK: I don't care.

AB: Do you know who I played chess with before he became VP of the US.

HK: Agnew?

AB: Yes.

HK: Really--I didn't know he played chess.

AB: Not great--but he's all right. But not great, and we played on Governor's cruiser every day. He loves the game.

Receptionist's Office in the
middle of a commercial
Municipal Staff

By: KHL V

NASA, Date 5/12/04

Page 2

HK: Well, like I told you when I was about 15, I was playing it a lot, and since I'm in this job I don't think I played one game.

AB: I'll tell you what, I'd love to play with you and we'll play tomorrow night at 9:00. If something comes up and you want to cancel don't hesitate.

HK: No, I'll drop by. It might be fun. Where are you?

AB: 4327 Hawthorne Street. It's right off Foxhall and look for a cul-de-sac--there's a little cul-de-sac on the left. A sign pointing to the cul-de-sac--it's not on Hawthorne--it's on the little circle.

HK: Okay. Well, I can always knock over the board when its

AB: Yeh. If you want to be fed, we can feed you. It's up to you.

HK: No, I'll have had a snack before then. So I'll come around 9 or 9:15.

AB: Wonderful. See you then.

The President's Office
The Department of Defense
The President's Desk

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12930, Sec. 3.5

By: KMLV NASA, Data: 5/12/04

TELCOM

Mr. KissingerSir Burke Trend

12:35 p.m. 7/29/72

HK: I thought you were coming over here to look at the Cabinet Room.

BT: I would like to but you must be terribly busy.

HK: I'm always busy but always available for you seriously.

BT: I enjoyed last night, thank you very much.

HK: I thought it might be good to have something that was not too heavy.

BT: (laughing) after a day like that. Would you like me to look in. I thought of taking an hour off this afternoon to look around the place a little bit.

HK: What time were you going to do it?

BT: The afternoon or the end of the afternoon, which ever it would suit you.

HK: Why not come over for lunch here.

BT: I don't think I can have lunch.

HK: Why don't you come here, if I'm not here, I'll arrange for somebody to take you around.

BT: Where will you be this afternoon.

HK: I may be at home or....

BT: Well anyway. Is there anything else....

HK: What time could you come here?

BT: Around 2:30 I think. Don't you wait for us. Was there anything else you wanted to talk about? I have been putting through in my

Re: [what was said] after the meeting

Attn: [name of meeting]

By: KHLW
NASA Date: 5/12/64

what we were discussing yesterday. And I think that we're
in clear that we --as we told you last night and we will.....

HK: I have checked on this paper that you asked about your program --the improvement program--and that is in fact being improved here

BT: Thank you very much.

HK: And on the Segaard problem, we will leave it as we discussed. I will talk to somebody here to see if you could send someone over to get some ideas on costs. I am inclined to believe that it may be that the Atomic Energy Commission would be the best place to discuss it because their chairman could handle it very discreetly.

BT: Yes. As I said get ______ ready to come.

HK: Because that is primarily a warhead problem isn't it?
The proposal is the same.

BT: Yes. We will have ______ ready to come and we will have other people ready to come on the other issues which we discussed. We will tell Donald Tepitt here who they are, when they are available to come and that he is to meet with you or Haig.

HK: And you tell Tepitt that even when I'm on the West Coast that if he calls the WH board, it will be put through to me on the West Coast.

BT: I have one other question on --you told us at the very end of the afternoon about an interesting idea and I will certainly try to get a reaction to that

HK: Yes. But do it within the context of the general strategy which I outlined for you. It is not one of....you know we are not looking for something soft minded because we want to improve the atmosphere.

BT: Oh no, I understand that--quite clear.

HK: Although that strategy is that which we haven't shared with anybody.

BT: If you give something to somebody, you have to give something to somebody else. In order to keep the balance.

HK: Yes. You have the right to do it, without being provocative.

The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog?

6/14/94 NASHA, Data 5/13/94

page 3

BT: What I should be asked when I get back of course is tell us more, in other words they will say where is the small print and I don't think at the moment there is any small print.

HK: There isn't any small print and of course you cantell your colleagues when it reaches the stage of print, we would want to talk to you. Obviously it is not in our interests have something that will represent a setback.

BT: Yes. Obviously.

HK: So as soon as there is some print to discuss, we would go to you because we would hope--if a thing like this were to be done we would have to discuss it withour allies and hope to have your support and we wouldn't do it if it didn't have your support.

BT: No. You want at the moment a general reaction

HK: Well, do you think this is so dangerous that we'd better squelch it now. Or can you conceive if we put it into very general terms as objectives to be realized and conditions that have to be fulfilled and safeguarding clauses for allies that nothing could possibly affect existing relations, well then in the light of the bigger strategy, it could be pursued with the understanding of course that we would as soon as we got this from you and when the next round--we have avoided up to now getting texts because that would have agreed to the principle.

BT: You have got no text at all?

HK: We had one that we rejected. The first version. And then we had only a letter from Breshnev which was stressed the importance of it that there would be a clause which very explicitly safeguarded allied rights. That the obligation could be changed to a sense of a general undertaking--in other words we do not have any language and now the next move is up to us. Because the next move would be to say, all right, produce something. But we didn't want to do that. That's for us to produce.

BT: It would be a document of some sort?

HK: Yes. A public document of some sort--this is something that we conceivably wouldn't do privately.

BT: Henry, if we wanted to talk to you about it instead of giving a reaction by ......

Re: [insert telephone number]

1st floor, 3rd floor, 4th floor

McDonnell

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: K.L. V. NASH, Date: 5/13/04

Page 4

HK: I'd prefer to talk about it rather than get a reaction by telephone.

BT: We could send somebody to talk to you.

HK: Yes. What sort of person? It would have to be a fairly senior person.

BT: Oh yes. We would send you the head of ______) or something like that or his deputy if he happened to be on leave. It would be nothing less than that.

HK: Yes. And no one would know what he is over here for.

BT: Certainly not. He would just be coming in the ordinary way of business.

HK: Right and at that time we might produce something that we would consider discussing.

BT: That would be in about a week or 10days time. Will you be around?

HK: I will be in Washington until the 19th or 20th of August and then I'll be on the West Coast.

BT: That will give us plenty of time--you would like a reaction in a fortnight and

HK: We would like to go one round on this in August. They are eager to have some talks with me on some basis in September to review our relations. And this is not yet known incidentally--it's just for the Prime Minister.

BT: Yes indeed.

HK: Just to have a roundup. Now this would be the time in which one would or would not be concrete. We have that sort of time, but if we are not going to do anything at all, then we better squelch it very fast. Our temptation is to play with it for a bit.

BT: I can see that because of the strategic considerations you mentioned.

HK: Yes and because it isn't easy to find something that gives you a good base that to tip the other way.

Re: Question Three: Is the report in the
same file as the confidential
PRESIDENT'S OFFICE?

By: K.L. W. NAVA Date: 5/13/04

Page 5

BT: Well Henry, I will see to it. The ______ appears here within the next fortnight--very senior, very responsible.

HK: And you understand Burke that no one --this is something that literally no one on our side has the slightest inkling of.

BT: Yes. I will make that quite clear.

HK: And that Moscow has no reason to suppose that we are--I mean I think one of the incentives to them is their belief that we will do that without discussing it with anyone. But we won't do that. I mean we will talk to you first and then when we come to an understanding, that will include an understanding how to handle the Europeans...and then we would proceed from there. And on the other business your report (tape scratched)--I mean I have concern that the President wants more that your understanding was correct.

BT: I didn't get the last thing.

HK: On the MBFR and SALT and European Security Conferences, the President, I talked to him this morning--I just read to him what you had taken as your understanding of what he had said and he confirmed that you had understood him correctly.

BT: Good and thank you. And we will send you people to talk about ______ things again we will stick it through Tipitt.

HK: Right, on MBFR we will be in some sort of shape by the end of next week and say the week after you wanted to send somebody you would probably get one round ahead of NATO

BT: MBFR weekend after next...

HK: You probably would get round ahead of NATO on that one.

BT: And when for SALT.

HK: SALT I think will be lagging 10 days behind that. MBFR will be in somewhat rudimentary stage and we will probably ask that paper be redone and to surface it in NATO in September, but if you wanted to get in on this stage of it, starting about-- we have our meeting on Thursday--10 days after that would be a good time to do it.

St. Petersburg State University
Department of Psychology
Graduate School of Arts and Sciences
University of Virginia

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: K.M. V NASA Date: 5/12/04

Page 6

**BT:** Yes. I would of thought, Henry, that if we said that we would take all these three things together, because they are all inter-related, the sensible thing for us is to get a few ____ in there about these things and tell Tippit to fix with you when they could arrive here within the next 10 days or fortnight.

**HK:** Right. But they wouldn't all have to be here simultaneously.

**BT:** Oh no.

**HK:** But you don't have to bother with this, let Tipitt tell us the names --because except on the first item I don't intend to participate in the discussions myself.

**BT:** The--no right.

**HK:** The only other thing that you should keep in mind is that these studies are done by systems analysts and the systems analysts have no political sense or slightly more *selfish* (? )orientations that I so if there is anything in there that bothers you, before you draw profound conclusions at your level, just check with my about my views.

**BT:** I will indeed.

**HK:** Because all you people will get is the status of our analytical thinking and one of our administrative devices is to let a lot of ideas mill around so that we......continued on page 7

Question: Is it possible to get a copy of the document in electronic form?

By: KMLW NAFU Date: 5/12/04

page 7

terribly cynical way of expressing oneself?

BT: On our own particular problem we will have a team ready for when you tell us to come.

K: Good, excellent. Oh, the ____ No, no. That I will handle personally and the first item we discussed I will handle personally and if you

BT: From that point we should be very grateful for any help you can possibly give us.

K: You know my orientation, and the only question is whether we can swing it. My own advice to you would be to move in that direction.

BT: Yes.

K: And our intention would be to be helpful.

BT: ____ is a very powerful figure.

K: (laughs) So we will approach it with the intention to see whether it is possible. And if it is to be done again it is something that just is just as well done sooner rather than wait.

BT: That I can understand very well. You have been very enjoyable.

XXXXXXXXXX Burke, it was good to see you. You will come by at 2:30 in any event.

XXXXXXXXXX

BT: Let's say we will look in around 2:30. I would like to see the Cabinet Room again.

K: Good.

BT: If you are there

K: If I am here I will show you around, otherwise somebody else will.

BT: Where shall we come?

K: Into the West Lobby.

BT: West lobby.

K: Who is we, Rolly(?)

BT: I believe Rolly(?) will want to come.

The President's Office has been opened to the public. Some of the documents are confidential. Please see Mr. Kissinger.

TELCONE
Governor Rockefeller/Mr. Kissinger
1:45 p. m. 7/29/72

NASA Data 5/12/72

HK: Nelson, how are you?

NR: Fine, Henry.

HK: I've looked into that situation and we have told Defense that they should go ahead and talk to the Iranians, of course it depends on the Iranians whether they want to buy it, but we have taken away the road block.

Laird
NR: Marvelous Henry. Will that be handled by Laird(?) or does that get it down

HK: Well that would be handled in the first instance by Laird's office and then it would go on from there.

NR: Because Laird has never been enthusiastic about this plank.

HK: Yeh. They didn't want the Iranians to buy it either. They told them wait until the F 15 was ready, but this puts it--I tell you I will back channel our ambassador out there and find out where it stands.

NR: Marvelous, because Zumwalt is tremendously interested in course. He likes the F14.

HK: Yeh, I don't know anything about it, I have no views.

NR: He's the guy who gets it I guess, it's his plane and for some reason Laird has taken an active position against it.

HK: Well, I haven't done anything yet.

NR: You have, you have cleared the channels to go.

HK: Right and I'll find out from Iran.

NR: Good. Let me ask you, what's the reaction in Washington to this whole Eagleton thing.

HK: Well, it looks now as though Eagleton has had it.

The President of the Republic of the Philippines

Adviser on Political Affairs

By: KMLV NASA Date: 5/12/04

Page 2

NR: Except the Anderson thing in my opinion Henry now has aroused sympathy for him.

HK: No but McGovern is knifing him in the back now.

NR: He is? Well I think McGovern will be hurt now because of the Anderson thing.

HK: No, but McGovern I think is letting him go.
Because McGovern made a statement last night in which he said there are three factors that count: public support, mental health and whether he should have told the truth to begin with which is very noble, never once mentions the national interest or fitness for the Presidency. And he said of course as far as public support is concerned if even 1% or 99% are for Eagleton and 1% against him that 1% can lose the elections.

NR: I think McGovern personally will be hurt badly by it.

HK: Why?

NR: Because I think it shows his staff and he were unsophisticated and not professional and two, I think Anderson getting into this has now aroused sympathy for Eagleton because he falsely accused him, therefore if McGovern lets him go under the blast of Anderson then McGovern--he should have acted right away.

HK: I think McGovern has not down one thing since the election that shows me anything of his stature to be president, leaving aside his views.

NR: Absolutely. And I think this all adds to it tremendously.

HK: And now he has made a statement about Thailand saying it is a corrupt military dictatorship and he keep a few airplanes there only long enough to get our prisoners out of NVN and then he'd pull out--that of course goes over tremendously well in Thailand. And the man is just a disaster--also the stupidity--even if he wanted to pull out to say it that way..

NR: Right, Well, it's the whole thing is such a naive operation.

HK: Yeh, but it is scary if by any chance he should win.

NR: That's right, and we all have got to leave no stone unturned. I'm grateful to you on this thing. And we'll keep in touch with you about me eting you before I go over. Bye.

HK: Terrific

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E1-1238
By CHNARA Date 6/2/68
Stet

K: Right. So the week after my return we will announce the grain subsidy.

D: This is for your trip.

K: For my trip. You're just looking around for ways to ease the congestion that you're talking about.

D: Yes.

K: So within the next ten days we will make an announcement of subsidies for the American ships.

D: Henry, while I am dealing with you, you mention Brezhnev asked you for two months. . . .

K: Two months for what?

D: For the resignation of Thieu. You said one month and you said "no, you said two months." You remember?

K: Yeh.

D: Now I notice you easily and very flexibly switch to one or two days after your return. Then two weeks and then ten days.

K: No, no, ten days from now - two days after my return.

D: Oh, I see ten days from your return.

K: No, no, I will return on the 15th and we will announce it the 18th or 19th.

D: Oh, I see.

K: I meant 10 days from today.

D: Yes I understand. All right.

K: In other words no later than a week from next Tuesday.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E1-258
By CNARA Date 5/20/85

D: Yes I understand because otherwise __?__.

K: No, no, no later than a week from next Tuesday we will announce it.

D: And meanwhile . . . . . . involve with third countries.

K: Yes, . . . . . put maximum pressure on them.

D: Yes, I think it's very helpful.

K: We will do that for the next ten days and then for two days within two days of our return or say the 18th or 19th we will announce the subsidies for American ships.

D: OK.

K: And then within a week after that if we can sign the Maritime Agreement then we've got it all.

D: I think it looks like we are approaching something.

K: Well, when you and I work together things usually happen.

D: I think so too. Henry, about tomorrow - I receive a telegram now and they ask if it's possible for me to arrive on Friday evening.

K: Do you want to come earlier?

D: Well, even 5:30 would be fine.

K: Let's make it 5.

D: Five. Could you make it?

K: Yeh, I'll switch whatever I have.

D: Then I will leave tomorrow in the evening around 8:30 from Dulles airport.

K: OK, let's make it at 5.

D: OK. Because I couldn't get everything in the telegram and Brezhnev wants me to explain what the position on the . . . .

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012567
By: CHNARA Date 05/01/67

4

K: Oh you two are going to be so lined up against me.

D: Oh no.

K: It's going to be. . . The trouble is every time you have negotiated with us we have brought at least one weak member of our team. In our case when I face you, Gromyko and Brezhnev plus that little devil Korniyko who's probably going to hang around.

D: Yeh, well, he is very good in being precise in all those things and he is very good . . . . . we can rely on him that all the commas and points will be in the proper places.

K: Is it going to make you insufferable if I tell you that I look forward to my visit.

D: No, I think it will be a pleasant visit and interesting discussions.

K: Yes, I think we will have some interesting discussions.

D: This is my estimate because they ask me in Moscow before when I was there and I make it my long prediction that on some major points we will make a good movement forward and even we will close some issues. And now after talking with you my impression of that is correct.

K: Oh, absolutely. That's the attitude with which I'm coming.

D: So tomorrow I would like to talk to you about SALT. . .

K: I will give you something on SALT. I will give you something on that nuclear thing. It's just general but it expresses the President's concern and his attitude.

D: Yes, I understand. And if you could __________?__________

K: Now what I would like to do is also we should get somebody on a brief communique after my visit of what was discussed and the progress that was made.

D: OK. If you could give me a draft tomorrow it would be fine.

K: Well, I'll try.