Reproduced from the open files
of the Nixon Presidential
Materials Staff

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By KHC NARA, Dale 5/12/04

Telecon
Senator Javits
10/8/70 ca. 8:30 a.m

J: I head you are coming over to meet with the Senate and I am in New York on UN business. Wanted to apologize and tell you why I'm not going to be there.

K: Aren't you nice?

J: The trip went well I gather?

K: Very well.

J: I think he made a fantastic speech last night. All we can do now is pray these lunatics will see the light. Is the situation still the same in _________?

K: About the same, though we bought a little time before we left.

J: Is the cease-fire going to hold?

K: I think so.

By KHL NARA, Date 5/12/04

TELCON
Finch/Kissinger

9:55 a.m. 10/8/70

F: We have this frantic request from Taft Schreiber for a lunch on Oct. 20 or late afternoon thing. On the M.E. This is apart from anything else -- for the Murphy campaign. The President asked if you would do it.

K: I hate to be used with the Jewish community. Would it be in the press?

F: Off the record session.

K: LUnch?

F: Anything that day. Back Taft Schreiber would take care of arrangements. And Ted Cummings.

K: He is Jewish too? He must have changed his name. (K tells a joke about a man who had a decidedly Jewish name, living in Mass., who went to the judge and asked if he could change his name to Lodge. The judge agrees and it is done. However, later he goes back to the judge and says he wants to change his name to Cabot. The judge asks why, seeing as how he now has a perfectly good, Gentile name. The man answers that when he is asked what his name used to be, before it was changed, he wants to be able to say Lodge.)

F: This isn't for solicitation. No arm twisting. No political discussion of any kind. It's a briefing of friends of the president.

K: But they are all Jewish.

F: We will throw in few Gentiles.

K: If he wants me to do it, I will.

F: I wanted you to know the basis. It's critical for Murphy.

K: I will talk to him before he goes and if he repeats the request, I will do it.

F: OK.

K: All the arrangements will be made for me?

F: After you have talked to the President I will have Schreiber talk to your office.

K: Lunch.

F: We just wanted to get the date and then whatever your schedule alows.

By KHLW NARA, Date 5/12/04

TELCOM

Doty/Kissinger

10:40 a.m. 10/8/70

K: What do you think of it?

D/It was worth all you did.

K: That's an ambiguous statement.

D: I assume you did a good deal.

K: What would be helpful if some of the people who raised hell in May could say this is okay. Basically the President doesn't want to have anything to do with them but if he could say that there's a constituency in the U.S. that if you work in their direction they will support you -- Cy Vance put out a strong statement. If we could establish something between the President and the academic community, it will be helpful.

D: I will do something when I get back.

K: Where are you?

D: In Washington.

K: Oh, I didn't know that. I have your letter.

D: It missed you and got there late.

K: Frankly on the ABM what they said is just not true. It's as simple as that. They have never referred to zero ABM.

D: That's out -- the rest the government should not have a position on Moscow vs phase one ? ? ? ? ?. It leaves open a microcosm of
continued _________ in ABM.

K: What they have done in Egypt makes you worried. They have moved 11 SA-3 sites, all Russian, in the last week.

D: Wow! This -- what does it mean? Signing off?

K: I just don't know.

D: The whole terrain --

K: On the list you mentioned -- I like getting your ideas. Collateral restraints we want very much. ? ? ? ? we want very much. ? ? ?
I have no objection to that. I want to give you priorities.

By KHLW NARA, Date 5/12/04

Doty/Kissinger

10:40 a.m.

10/8/70

D: Would you be interested in hearing our arguements for going back to revision of Plan C? Or is that too academic?

K: That's my favorite plan.

D: In view of everything it looks better and better.

K: We shouldxx would be more than ready for that.

D: We will work on it.

K: When are we meeting?

D: The 20th and 21st.

K: David has asked to sit in. Have you any objections?

D: We wondered about that. We have no objection

K: Give him a chance.

D: We were going to see him afterwards anyway.

K: Id on't mind you seeing him in addition.

D: We would rather have our base over there rather than ACDA but thus far this is where we could get information. They will be all right.

K: Good.

D: Keep us on for the 20th and we will see you then.

By: KHLU NARA, Date: 5/12/04

TELCON
Javits/Kissinger

10:50 a.m. 10/8/70

J: I talked with you and didn't mention OPIC thing. Can we settle that?
I have no further interest or anything else.

K: I will get on it today.

J: They will be in trouble about a President. I understood they had a
man. It would be all right with me.

K: I will get on it.

J: Another thing -- One percent target in UN. The UN delegation is under
instruction to take a strictly offensive position according to the term
as it's used in the stock market. Why they can't subscribe to the 1%
target. It will make a poor impression and drag it down.

K: Let me see what I can do.

J: They need to deal quickly. Rather than take a position that indicates
rejection they take position that U.S. government is working on it. The
Ambassador is putting up the views of LDC. After the celebration at the UN
and they get into the agenda items they will have a chance for considered
judgement of ideas. Views of many laid before the US including basic
document which has been proposed by the less developed countries and
the U.S. will not be made in due course come up with views. It's an important
point because whatever is left will go down the drain if we put ourselves
in the position of rebuffing the whole world.

By: KML NARA, Dato 5/12/04

TELCON
Scally/Kissinger

10:55 a.m. 10/8/70

S: Did you watch or listen or read the commentaries afterward?

K: You were fair. You are a good man. I think you are the most thoughtful commentator.

S: The first phone call I got was from a woman in Va. saying that my anti-Nixon bias was showing.

K: You were fair. There's a slight nuance between you and me but that's your job. You were thoughtful. The others were jazzing it up. The issue is not what they talk about but what we are proposing.

S: When will we spell out what we want to enforce the in-place ceasefire. Do you think it's easier for private meetings now?

K: Strictly for you, yes.

S: Hopefully.

K: The way they negotiate -- what do you expect? It's about standard. They get credit then, later.

S: What were we thinking of?

K: Indochina, Malaysia, Burma, etc.

S: All in all you must be pleased about the reaction from the Senate. The only voice of criticism was from Stennis.

K: I couldn't believe it.

S: I wanted to chat with you.

K: I listened to you mostly and you were the best. CBS was the worst. I told the President that I thought you did a superb job.

S: Thank you. Hope to see you soon.

By K.L. NARA, Date 5/12/04

TELCON
Finch/Kissinger

11:20 a.m. 10/8/70

K: The President has done what you probably put him up to. He is for it.

F: It's a Senate seat and it has supporters all the way. Taft Schreiber said he will make it up to you, whatever that means.

K: Are you going to be there?

F: No, I will be in the midwest.

K: I am assuming that I am not speaking at a fund-raising.

F: Absolutely no. Just an off-the-record report to a group of the President's friends. We will up the Gentile county. It's a hell of a lot of power.

K: While I am there you might want to set up a meeting with media people.

F: I will get that in motion. I appreciate it.

K: I will hear from Taft on the details. It's the 20th?

F: Yes. I will have Taft call you.

By: KHW NARA, Date: 5/13/04

Telecon
Marshall Green

10/8/70 11:25 a.m.

G: That was a terrific backgrounder you gave yesterday. All the nuances we were hoping to achieve you got in there.

K: Aren't you nice. That means a lot to me. It really does because I think we are working on the same side of the street.

G: The way you handled the withdrawal thing will help in the negotiations, and at the same time give the assurances they want to the Cambodians. I had an interesting reaction from Johnathan Bingham--he had dinner with the Soviet and Polish Ambassadors last night. The Soviet Ambassador's reaction--he didn't say anything; he was very laconic. The Polish Ambassador said two things he noticed that the President didn't go into: withdrawal and a political settlement. On your backgrounder, my personal feeling is that it would be helpful to give a text to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

K: That's fine.

G: I think their reaction would be even more positive if they could see this.

K: That's fine with me. Thanks very much for calling. I appreciate it.

By KHC NARA, Dato

5/12/04

TELCON

F. Mankiewicz/Kissinger

11:45 a.m.

10/8/70

K: How's my favorite Democrat?

M: Very good. Tom and I were in a funny position last night. We were giving a lecture at Catholic Univ. which had been set up several weeks ago. We listened to the speech with the kids and then did an analysis. We said it was the end of the cold war and a great triumph for the so-called doves. An historical speech. Political solutions, political realities, standstill ceasefire.

K: Very perceptive of you. Very few people saw the difference between standstill and ceasefire.

M: Everyone has proposed ceasefires before. The first half was obviously worked well for word.

K: We have been working on this for months.

M: John Osborne said that a few months ago. He said the President was going to the Mediterranean because of a new initiative on VN and that you were inaccessible, as you usually are not. And Shultz and Ehrlichman going out there.

K: He was right on everything except that. That's not true.

M: But you can see how someone could put that together.

K: We have been working on it for months.

M: Remember what we said about Bruce having new instructions?

K: Isn't that amazing!?

M: We will do it over the country. And of course they will reject it.

K: Did you read my backgrounder yesterday? I said they will reject it but it will invite them to discuss it.

M: What are they going to do? We listened to the President's speech and where do we sign? I expect that it had not been tried out in advance was not exactly right. But there are elements there that I will pass on some information to you. A graduate student who is very bright

By KHLW NARA, Dato 5/13/04

-2-

M: (cont) said they didn't feel they would accept it because a standstill easefire and withdrawal of all foreign tropps that will be reduced to Pathet Lao and ____ Rouge that don't have the strength ? ? ? ? ? He said a crucial question of the other side if it's a standstill ceasefire can the refugees go back hom because if they can you have ____ many more people.

K: It's going to be a rough road. If we can talk about these points and some of the 8 points, we will be in a different game.

M: And people who are stressing the President's rejection of their public suggestion on government I say only that he is saying we will not ditch the government.

K: What we said was that we will not ditch it in advance of a political process.

M: Process was most important. Process can mean many things. Go back to April and May.

K: On those occasions ? ? ? ? ?

M: He said a political settlement will be existing reality.

K: I am glad we are on the same wavelength on these things.

M: It was enormously significant. First time a President has said we want to talk about what the war is about. I called you yesterday because I read in the papers that the new fellow in Bolivia is leftist and the other guy is rightist. That's not what I hear. My feeling is that Torres regards himself as an heir to Barrientos. He is an AF commander. Miranda is a political general. Fbatx They wouldn't want that. Torres is the representative of most middle class ex-Indians who want the Barrientos style. Free enterprise down there means you lose your land. That's where Che got hung up. When he talked about changed in land structure they thought he wanted to go back. Revolution is a good word there. It's like founding fathers.

K: That's interesting.

M: It's foolish to talk about leftist and rightist. Will he preserve what the Indians think are rights they have gotten since '54 and held since?

Torres is an Air Force man and that's significant. Barrientos was more

F. Mankiewicz/Kissinge

11:45 a.m.

10/8/70

By KHL V

NARA, Date S/12/04

-3-

M: (cont) liberal (?). The Army is more elite than the Air Force, unlike most S. American countries. Torres may be a dangerous leftist but it's hard unless you are Che Guevara. They have already digested that rhetoric. They had had their revolution.

K: I will keep that in mind.

M: Maybe the old feudalism exists but they think it's their land and they will fight like crazy.

K: Let's connect sometime. We seem to be on different dinner circuits.

M: I will meet you whenever you say. One thing on the speech -- he talked about his travels and said he was cheered wherever he went. In the next Kx paragraph he showed what he meant (about it's not being him as an individual but as a representative of the country) but when he said that he got a sustained horse laugh from the Studetns at Catholic Univ. which lasted through most of the speech. It was bad timing. It was only a comment. I got the feeling that the first part was done word for word in k your shop and the last part was pure politics.

K: On deep background, you are right.

Telcon

Governor Nelson Rockefelt

10/8/70; 2:20 p. m.

By KHC NARA, Dated 5/13/04

R: Congratulations. I called to congratulate you this morning. I thought it was superb.

K: I have just come back from speaking to the Senate Republicans. They were in 100 percent attendance, from Sherman to Case they were applauding ardently.

R: How did my friend Goodell do?

K: He wasn't there. I meant 100 percent of those in town. I think Goodell would have supported us. We have completely fused the issue now. What can anyone else now ask of us?

R: I think it is great and what kind of reaction are you getting from the press?

K: Extraordinary. We are getting a bipartisan resolution today in the Senate signed by everyone on one side and every hawk and dove on the other. And we are getting a bipartisan House resolution. I don't think over the next four weeks there is a Vietnam issue.

R: I am thrilled and I tell you it is reminiscent of some of your earlier work.

K: Some day I must tell you some of the things going on the last six weeks.

R: I can imagine it. I don't know how you have stood it with your cold. I hope you are getting better.

K: I am recovering. I want you to know I am with you.

R: You are great. Some of this stuff with the Vice President is difficult. I tried to reach your friend when he was in Spain, and I tried again this morning.

K: He is traveling. I told him what your views were. They think they have a master ploy to elect Buckley.

Cliff White says it

R: They are wrong. He will destroy Buckley. They are going to elect Goodell and defeat me. That would be it.

K: I am going to call Agnew myself and tell him to shut up.

R: He doesn't like what I said. We have a pretty sophisticated voting group and people resent interference. It would help me if you would talk to Agnew. But I don't know if he would appreciate hearing from you.

By: KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

*

Rockefeller Telcon

-2-

K: I have the attitude that if they want to get rid of me it would do me a favor. I am not worried about this job.

R: I feel the same way about this job. I am calling them like they are.

K: We would do anything we can to help you get elected.

R: I am 2 points behind the last poll, two weeks ago.

K: That is when you do your best. I was worried when you were so far ahead.

R: I am in there pitching and working like hell.

K: I am not a political speaker, but if there is ever a speech and you think I can do some good, call on me.

R: I just hope we can keep this rift from occurring. But I hope the President understands. I tried to get Mitchell today. He is out, and Finch.

K: He is travelling. I will talk to Finch. He owes me something. If he can't play ball with me I won't play with him. Let me talk to Finch. I am going to be tough with him. He wants me to help him raise some money. He wants to run in California.

R: We cannot have Agnew in the state.

K: Let me see what I can do.

R: You are great, Henry. We have been through some tough stuff. I think in the long run this will come out. I stood up with our own people and this was appreciated here, because Agnew is a pretty controversial personality.

K: I may come to that reception you invited me to on the 19th.

R: Aren't you nice. I was talking to Abba Eban this morning. Believe me, the respect that you have in international circles is fantastic.

K: You are nice to say that.

R: We had a joint press conference.

*

By: KHL NARA, Date: 5/12/04

Rockefeller Telcon

-3-

K: I think they want you to win.

R: He was magnificent the way he handled it. When you see the
President tell him I tried to reach him to congratulate him on
his speech. I am sending him a message.

ms

By: KHW NARA, Date: 5/12/04

Telecon
Secretary Rogers
10/8/70 3:35 p.m.

R: I wanted to tell you that you did a very good job on that backgrounder.

K: Aren't you nice. I appreciate that very much.

R: It was a tough one.

K: It was very complicated.

R: It was ideally obscure.

K: I tried to do what you recommended.

R: You did. It met the concerns of the hawks in Congress but left the door open so that if the other side is interested it didn't detract from the vague language of the President.

K: Well your suggestions during the day gave me a chance to focus on it.

R: The response from all over the world has been excellent.

K: Has it? I haven't noticed. I noticed Tito said he thought it was a step forward and he'd talk to Madam Binh.

R: Japan has made the best statement. They said they would do all they could.

K: Terrific.

R: And the ________ supported it.

K: Really! That's sensational. I see Senator Hatfield sent over a very positive statement.

R: There was good Congressional reaction.

K: It was a good example of teamwork.

R: And of good timing.

K: I am delighted and thank you very much.

By KHLV NARA, Date 5/13/04

TELCOM
President/Kissinger
4:35 pm 10/8/70

K: I had 100% of the Senators that were in town. Hatfield made a public statement supporting you. Sent me a note saying anytime we want to, call him. Percy, Mathias. Case made a strong statement. It was unbelievable. They just haven't got anything to scream about any more.

P: A lot have been uncomfortable opposing us and they welcomed the chance to go along. They voted for Cooper/Church.

K: They sensed the public mood.

P: As you say, what in the hell else -- unless they are for a bug out, could they have against it.

K: Margaret Chase Smith says she is proud to be associated and made extremely warm references to you and your statesmanship and forsight. I have been up briefing these people for a year and a half and we have been through rough times with them. Percy floated a statement of bipartisan support which 12 leading Senators signed -- 6 from each party. Ford doing the same thing in the House. This will rattle Hanoi's teeth. Who would have thought 5x 4 months after Cambodia when you were separating the country, you have unified it. Sidley was enthusiastic. He particularly liked the ending so I have given him stuff about you writing it personally.

P: Also, from all accounts, the foreign reaction is very good. I talked to the press briefly today. I said I would discount what the first reaction in Hanoi would be. We have made a proposal seriously and we will not be discouraged at their first or even second reaction.

K: I have been saying seeing press most of the day.

P: We should make the point we will not be discouraged.

K: That's my big theme.

P: It will not be dead. These press men we have been able to keep them off balance.

K: Mankiewicz called up and said one of the great speeches a President has made. I think this -- Javits called to congratulate us and apologize for not being at the Senate lunch. Not one critical word. I don't wouldn't be surprised if some TV commentators didn't get off their high horses.

*

By KHL NARA, Date 5/12/04

President/Kissinger

4:35 pm

10/8/70

-2-

K: (cont) Scally was excellent. He called to reaffirm his stance.

P: I took the line today in a crowd how proud I was of the men in the 6th Fleet and what the men have done in Vn has made it possible for us to make this initiative.

K: The line you said yesterday about the men in Canada was beautiful.

P: There are a lot of patriots who we have to remind ? ? ? ?

K: We might demoralize our friends if we are to peace-niky.

P: I went through my line of not ending the war but ending it to build a lasting peace. They get that point.

K: That's what at the Congressional meeting this morning that ? ? ? ? He urged others to use it.

P: It has the tone of peace and statesmanship. It doesn't say peace in our time but peace for a generation.

K: I am putting out the statement that this has been in the works for months.

P: NBC asked me this today. I said I didn't feel it would make any difference. If they were my ideas I would have waited for a week before the elections.

K: Some politicians have raised hell because we didn't wait. Mitchell was one.

P: There will be disappointment that it was not accepted but we can keep it going.

K: The Japanese and Gorton have endorsed it.

P: It's time for U Thant.

K: Tito said he would talk to Madame Binh.

P: Don't they have to say more than nyet?

K: They are now totally on the defensive. Last year they had the moratorium after you and now we are united.

P: When you think about it, we are not divided on VN now.

K: Heath has made a strong statement in a speech to be given on Sun. How will

By KHC NARA, Dalo

5/13/04

-3-

K: (cont) call for a Geneva conference which we wanted. Let him get turned down too.

P: Let the Russians turn him down. Have they reacted?

K: No. Someone was at a dinner with Dobrynin and he was subdued and the Polish Ambassador said it had many brilliant ideas. We have them on the defensive.

P: Said it just right.

K: Exactly. The trip showed strength and now a desire for peace. Jordan thing ______ and the M. E. now defused.

P: We will keep following the line of praising our brave men.

K: Absolutely.

P: Ok Can't let the boys out there think that all we are interested in is peace.

K: Because they may have to keep fighting.

P: Give them some credit. People like to be proud of the kids. The best young men are in Canada -- Lindsay said that.

K: He's a cheap -- he will climb off now. Is he going to say we should have a coalition government?

P: What is Harriman saying?

K: He is quiet. We sent him an advance copy, just before the speech.

P: Give Bill a report on the Senate reaction.

K: I did and he is pleased.

P: He is giving a press conference tomorrow. I told him to. I want him to catch the weekend press. He will back it up. Keep the momentum up. He will collect anything -- make sure he gets everything you have. A summary on the reaction in Congress. Editorial reaction so he can say this is the

reaction. The casualty thing got a little ride today. Did Mel make a good statement?

By: KHW NARA, Date: 5/12/04

--4-

K: They put it out as normal. He said that without Cambodia we couldn't do this.

P: The fact of uniting the country. Did Sidey get that?

K: Yes. He is completely enthusiastic.

P: He liked the speech?

K: Yes. He started out with that.

P: Some felt they preferred a more domestic tone.

K: That would have been wrong. Everyone likes the delivery. Congratulations

P: Everyone worked on it. It's a damn good plan. These people cannot stand up and defend themselves on this. Now if they step up the fighting we have the record of your other meetings and we can clobber them.

K: We have gone every step possible.

P: @xx No one could predict 4 months ago on Cambodia that we would turn it around.

K: They were asking you accusing you of expanding the war.

P: Congressman and Senators were enthusiastic?

K: It was wild. They were clapping and getting to TV cameras to endorse you.

P: Follow up in getting stuff to Bill. Klein can help. Pass along the Congressional reaction.

By KHW NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Professor Milton Katz
10/8/70 5:00 p.m.

MK: I suppose you had a highly educational time?

K: Certainly did.

MK: I thought the President's address last night was first rate.

K: Aren't you nice!

MK: Really first rate. I had the pleasure of listening to the usual fatuous commentary afterwards--most of them are more interested in showing how smart they are than anything else. I believe it will help to consolidate American public opinion.

K: We think so too. I met today with people from both Senate and House and there was almost complete unanimity of support.

MK: The newspaper people don't yet realize what was done. I think it will sink in slowly. I told you when I dined with you and Ehrlichman, the President had one public opinion prior to Cambodia. He didn't after that but I think this will put him back to pre-Cambodia; maybe even better. I don't see where anyone can fault him providing they keep in mind the parameters within which the President must work and the situation. I was fascinated by Benjamin Wells' story in the New York Times this morning by the way, especially the timing of it. I'm not asking any questions.

K: The timing wasn't very much in our control.

MK: My first reaction was the usual bureaucratic one: 'Why can't people keep their months shut?' Then I read further and thought maybe people had opened their months with a purpose.

K: Perhaps they opened their mouths with a purpose, but not with our instructions. There was no significance to the timing as far as the White House is concerned.

MK: Oh dear. You mean people are just running off at the mouth? I thought it must be something more than that.

K: I'm not too disturbed by it, except for the fact that it could happen. It's not harmful for the other side to know that we were willing to go quite far.

MK: No, not at all. K: Thank you for calling. Give my best to Vivian.

By KHC NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telcon
Joseph Kraft
10/8/70; 10:55 am

Kraft: Did you have a good trip?

K: Yes, it was interesting. Did Al call you?

Kraft: Yes he did and I am delighted there are so few objections. I would like to talk over two of them.

K: There were only two.

Kraft: Yes, I would like to talk over them Saturday or next week. Is that all right?

K: Yes, but if you could avoid them.

Kraft: Not crucial, but you know I don't feel bitter but, one, I don't get it from you. That was the one about the speech.

K: Yes but it is the sort of thing that is going to be taken literally and do damage to me. He thinks on purpose. If you say it about something else rather than from the President's speech. If you say the document hasn't been translated from the German. Say I am going to give a briefing this afternoon as soon as I get it translated from the German. That is just as funny, or as unfunny.

Kraft: I think it is pretty funny. The main question that arises for me...

K: Then I will tell you, if you had been here yesterday I would have given you a little preview.

Kraft: Yes. But I won't be getting in until late tonight. I am in Texas. I have been in Arizona and California.

K: Are you making any money?

Kraft: I'm writing about policy - not making any money. I thought it would be good to see the national apathy. It's really incredible. People have serious problems that are not being addressed -- drugs, crime, and they have George Murphy and Ronald Reagan talking about the old-time movies. Will the President be making another statement on troop withdrawals within the next week before the election?

By: KHC NARA, Date: 5/12/04

Kraft Telecon

K: I doubt it. We didn't want to get troop withdrawals mixed up with the negotiating business. It would have been an easy grandstand to pull but it is not in our plan and if it is it will be a sudden decision and highly unlikely.

Kraft: You are on the track now until next spring, judging by the speech.

K: Yes, we are on the track until next spring. We don't think 50,000 more or less is the issue now before us in Paris. Our assessment is that the withdrawal issue is now within negotiating reach. If this were the only issue it would be pretty optimistic.

Kraft: You said you have developed a theory about what they were up to when Mme. Binh made her offer. What was she trying to do?

K: I said if you wanted to stretch the thing, point 1 is directed to us and the last 6 addressed to the South Vietnamese, and point 2 is a transitional point and if it was conceivable that they were willing to talk about 1 and modified 2 with us and the other 6 with whatever group they want to talk to in the south. Don't connect me with the interpretation. And if that's what they are offering us and if that should emerge within the next weeks or months then I think we are on a useful track. If they insist on linking the two together, we are in the greater complexities. If that is what they are offering us it is the ________. As long as they don't ask us to deliver it I don't care what they ask on Saigon.

Kraft: You sound.... they don't convince you on that point?

K: No. They haven't fully convinced me of the offer yet.

Kraft: There are several ambiguities with respect to withdrawals. The President put that into a very general formula. I take it that was the line with respect to the quid pro quo. There was a loophole there they would be tempted to probe.

K: A settlement would have to include their withdrawal too.

Kraft: You haven't said we are prepared to withdraw but a reciprocal step is withdrawal on your part?

K: We are willing to debate the terms of mutuality.

Kraft: They might want to do it by example.

K: Yes.

By KHLNARA, Dato. S/12/04

Kraft Telcon

Kraft: Is infiltration to stop?

K: Yes.

Kraft: It says combat forces but that would include everything?

K: Some replacement we would be open to. If they talk seriously to us we would have to do it with an attitude of not prejudging the thing. We are not going to try to trick them into unilateral disadvantages.

Kraft: Yes. This is awfully tough for them to buy. Do you see much bait in it for them?

K: There is enough bait in this for them. Anyway enough in the political section to talk about it. I think it is bait there because we are preparing to talk about many of their 8 points if we put our 5 and their 8 together. I wouldn't expect them to negotiate only on the basis of our 5 points.

Kraft: Is there any report out of Paris yet? There were harsh remarks before going in.

K: That is what we expected. This is the opening shot in a complex negotiation. We have no doubt this will lead to intense negotiations and almost certainly private talks. www.kxx

Kraft: I feel certain that if it had been put forward privately without buildup. Morsels and tidbits will require private talks. I am a little baffled as to why the build-up in publishing it.

K: Because we had to clear it with so many people we were afraid it would leak out in the form of controversy.

Kraft: I don't accept in principle it is political because I don't think the President plays politics with this.

K: No, he doesn't. Any charging up of the Vietnam debate is a political loss to him.

Kraft: I am not sure of that, and let me advise you, stop making statements of something you don't know about.

K: That is what our people tell me. Who knows what is in the President's mind? This was scheduled to be done around this time for months. That doesn't mean it wasn't in the backs of minds that it was the right time politically. We couldn't make it until Bruce and

Kraft Telcon

By: KHC NARA, Date: 5/12/04

Xuan Thuy were both there. And until we had assessed the
Cambodian situation.

study on

Kraft: You had to do the xxxxxxxx the ceasefire.

K: That we have been doing since last December. The security
situation. Then Cambodia set all of this back 2 months.

Kraft: Do you think the other side is alert to...? Another ambiguity
is what kind of political actions would be allowed them under the
ceasefire?

K: On that we would be very permissive. If it is the execution of
political opponents we would draw the line.

Kraft: Yes. OK, well...

K: What is your personal reaction?

Kraft: My personal reaction is that it is not political.

K: That is clearly right.

Kraft: Well, I am not sure. But, to the best of my knowledge.
Two, there are a lot of things in there that they put privately and that
Have induced interest on the other side. Three, a lot of things in there
that to publicly state make it tough for the other side. Like inspection.
You needed that publicly? Things like infiltration. I guess I come
to the conclusion that if the other side buys it, really good. The terms
look to me quite stiff, especially with respect to Saigon. The Saigon
regime gets reinforced.

K: I don't expect them to accept every line of it... it's not put on a
take it or leave it basis. We have made extensive studies on this.

Kraft: But are they capable of this kind of analysis?

K: I don't know.

Kraft: This kind of analysis may be beyond them. They tend to think
in terms of the dynamics of their own movement.

K: ] This is just for you. In contrast to the Middle East ceasefire,
here we know what we are talking about. On the political dynamics it
generates, they are more subtle than we are, I am sure.

*

By: KHL NARA, Dato 5/12/04

Kraft Telcon

Kraft: I think there are a lot of problems for them there. Will you be around on Saturday?

K: I am not sure but I will be at the Joe Alsop party. If I don't see you this weekend we will get together next week.

Kraft: I would like to talk about the trip.

K: Good, Joe.

ms

Telecon
Ambassador Yost
10/8/70 5:08 p.m.

By KMW NARA, Date 5/13/04

Y: I sent you early this afternoon a telegram which you probably haven't received yet. But I wanted to invite your Ernest attention to it. It's about the one percent target. We understand there is an options paper for the President coming from your office. I wanted to express my strong feeling that the first option--the one the Secretary talked about in June--is the one I recommend.

K: Who talks about options papers. I don't know about them. But I'll certainly lean in the direction you recommend.

Y: This is a matter which is the primary concern of two-thirds of the membership. If the President wanted to do it this way it could be reserved for the President's speech; it would be welcomed with the greatest of enthusiasm. Or if he doesn't want to do it that way it could be made in a less obvious way.

K: Let me keep that in mind. I am very sympathetic to your opinion.

Y: Okay.

K: Good. Nice to talk to you.

Telecon
Ambassador Dobrynin

10/8/70 5:35 p.m.

K: You got me into an embarrassing situation last night?

D: How?

K: Because when the Secretary called . . .

D: At this time the speech was already given.

K: Oh, I see.

D: The State Department gave it.

K: What time was that?

D: I don't know exactly.

K: You got the other one though too?

D: Yes, I have it from State Department official text.

K: But didn't you have mine too?

D: Yes, but this was 8:00, one hour before it was made. I would
like your opinion, a piece of advice. As it looks now, Mr. Gromyko could
visit Washington. Is it better to have it before the meetings with the Secre-
tary, fixed on 16 and 19, or after, or it really doesn't matter?

K: Let me think about it. I probably will want to see you tomorrow
for a clarification of one of the subjects we discussed yesterday. We can
settle it then. How long will he be here?

D: Until the 24th. The question is he already agreed with the British
government . . .

K: So he could come any time before the 16.

D: Yes, like the 13th.

K: Or on the 22nd or 23rd.

D: Yes, but he is making speeches though the day before the President.

K: On the 22nd?

DECLASSIFIED

Authority Folzaser
By CNARA Date 6/10/70

Telecon
Amb. Dobrynin

10/8/70 5:35 p.m.

D: Yes.

K: He could do it in the afternoon of his speech, couldn't he?

D: I don't know but it's really better for him not to have to the day he has the speech. It's rather rushed and he doesn't like to use plane.

K: How can you survive in the Soviet Union using trains?

D: We have very nice trains.

K: But very long distances. My only problem is I will probably be away on the 20th and 21st.

D: Before or after, it doesn't matter.

K: Can I have Mr. Young call your assistant tomorrow to fix a time for this clarification. We will also have to work something out on the one topic on which you still owe us an answer. How to do it.

D: First, I give him two possibilities . . .

K: It's the issue of which you said your foreign minister might bring an answer and how to do that we will have to discuss.

D: Okay. You will call me tomorrow?

K: Yes, tomorrow morning when my schedule is clear. I am thinking of tomorrow afternoon. And I will be then probably have an answer on the appointment.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority F01268
By CHARA Date 01-01

By KHW NARA, Date 5/12/04

D: How?

K: Oh, I see.

K: What time was that?

D: I don't know exactly.

D: Yes, but this was 8:00, one hour before it was made. I would
like your opinion, a piece of advice. As it looks now, Mr. Gromyko could
visit Washington. Is it better to have it before the meetings with the Secretary, fixed on 16 and 19, or after, or it really doesn't matter?

D: Yes, like the 13th.

K: Or on the 22nd or 23rd.

K: On the 22nd?

By KCLW

NARA, Date 5/12/04

Telecon
Amb. Dobrynin

10/8/70 5:35 p.m. page 2

D: Yes.

D: We have very nice trains.

By KHL NARA, Date 5/13/04

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
The President
10/8/70; 7:45 p. m.

P: I have an idea that might have some merit. I wonder if you could get Lucet in and tell him we consider this to be an important move. See if a message can be gotten to Pompidou -- he can play a role to get the Soviets to play a constructive role. What do you think?

K: I could certainly do it. We have a direct communication channel to the French. My judgment is that he probably won't want to expose himself but we have nothing to lose. I will put it to him tomorrow. Otherwise, I think things are going very well. I have not seem the TV news as yet. I am going to have it replayed to me. I saw the Newsweek and Time people. I saw Frankel, which I normally would not do, and they were all respectful. Of course, you know the _New York Times_ had a positive editorial.

P: I think we ought to make this move on the French.

K: I will talk to Lucet tomorrow.

P: Fine, Henry.

feg

By KHC NARA, Date 5/13/04

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Peter Flanigan
10/2/70; 8:15 p.m.

F: I want to report to you the very substantial but sensitive headway we are making on this subject. I can do it tomorrow. I have not told State about it and I don't know how to tell them and I am going to leave the problem with you. Can we do it tomorrow?

K: Can I let you know tomorrow?

F: ... dealing with M ______.

K: I just saw the cable from Trezise. Do you think it is satisfactory?

F: We have not gotten to a satisfactory ______ -- duration & categories.
We told him no deal.

K: I hope you realize without my support this would not have happened.

F: And constant attention.

K: I will put it out to the press. As you know I wanted to make my mark in the textile business. As you know, I need a job when I leave here.

F: I thought it was nice of you to throw the bone to Rogers (?)

K: You thought it was nasty?

F: No, I thought it was nice.

K: Do you think I hit him below the belt?

F: No, I was just amused.

K: Considering he (Rogers) knows less about the ceasefire than anybody except you, he used the word "I" very much. State opposed every step that led to the speech.

F: That's interesting. I called Goheen (sp.?) -- he was delighted.

K: I spoke at the Senate. Clifford Case shook my hand and said he always knew I had it in me. Hatfield sent me a note in support -- said to call him anytime. Percy is drooling.

F: Aren't they incredible?

feg

By KML NARA, Date 5/12/04

KELCON

Taft Schreiber/Kissinger
afternoon 10/8/70

S: You are great to come out with all you have to do. I felt you would feel good if I could tell you that we had to pay $100,000 for more advertising. They wouldn't take credit but I told a bank you were coming for the dinner and so they said they would (take a Kissinger speech as collateral on the loan?).

K: If this is not a fund-raising lunch.

S: It's a report as I understand it. Calling a spade a spade. Then we will have a care take you about 2:00 to the briefing. We will not put an arm on the people. Nothing done in front of you.

K: Will this be in the press? Will they know in advance that I am doing it?

S: Off the record. Nothing about it.

K: Then I can do it.

S: You are meeting with a group of the President's close friends. I understand they will ask you to do a briefing with the Times so it will look as if you are doing it for that.

K: The L.A. Times knows I will not come for that. I will come for a meeting out there and doing this besides.

S: Would you come the evening before?

K: Either the evening before or come out and stay the evening of that day.

S: We will plan something if you will let me know. I will get you a date and Rita and I will join you. 20 Carats is playing. I will take care of everything -- a car --

K: I will let you know about the details. Perhaps I will arrange a date. My understanding is it's off the record lunch, and will not be reported in the press, I will talk about the M.E. and what you do afterwards is your problem.

S: You might want to do a little on VN. I thought the President's remarks were great and I am proud of you.

K: I will be in touch with you early next week.