TELECON
The President/Secretary Kissinger

January 23, 1974, 7:00 p.m.

N: Hello.

K: Mr. President.

N: Hi, Henry.

K: Mr. President, I just wanted to let you know that I have had a long cable from Saudi Arabia. I think there's still another part coming. If you write a letter tomorrow that, then, over the week-end we can work out so that you can announce it in your State of the Union address.

N: Letter to whom?

K: To Faisal.

N: Good. Good. This is the greatest thing we could possibly do. Apart from the damn embargo, it wouldn't amount to anything anymore.

K: All you have to do is give him reassurance.

N: Why don't you prepare a letter and bring it over tomorrow. I'll add a few scribbled notes.

K: We'll send it over tomorrow, Mr. President.

N: That's good news. How's your confidence? You're not getting discouraged?

K: Not at all. I thought you were in very good form this morning.

N: Well. I thought that our friend... Which meeting were you at?

K: I was at both.

N: I thought that Simon was a wipe-out.

K: A disaster.

N: I felt I had to say a few things. Didn't you?

K: You saved him.

DECLANDED
Authority E.O. 12158
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

- 2 -

N: At the Cabinet meeting -- just running the GD thing. They're all so weak. What they need is leadership. What was your feeling?

K: Exactly. As you said, they're very weak. You certainly got it across to them.

N: It isn't my nature, as you know, to talk strongly and toughly like that. Maybe I ought to do a little more.

K: I think, Mr. President, if you continue to give the leadership, that that is all the people want.

N: We shall see. In any event, we'll continue to give the leadership. But that's good news. When will you have the letter ready? The meeting - it's NSC - is at 3:00 tomorrow.

K: I'll have it by then, sir.

N: One thing I do want to discuss there -- raised by the Southerners -- re the Reserves. The Regular Army and all that bunch. Moorer and the bunch want to cut them off. I want to save them because that's good politics. So take that line. You know what I mean.

K: Absolutely. That is my conviction anyhow.

N: Frankly, the Reserves saved Israel.

K: They've saved us in every crisis we've had.

N: Moorer and the Admirals are only interested in how many stars they've got. And kick the Guard. You know what I mean. All of our friends in Congress don't want us to do this. That should be for the Southerners ______ is why is it that, frankly, why is it that the National Security people - they didn't mention you by name - they mentioned Schlesinger - why is it you're fighting this battle simply to put the name into the ______ thing and to slash the Reserve program. I think they're wrong.

K: I'm fully behind you, Mr. President.

N: Let's hit it tomorrow. O.K.?

K: Right, Mr. President.

N: O.K. Thanks. That's good news.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority F.O.1258
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELECON
Secretary Kissinger/S. Alsop

January 23, 1974, 8:10 p.m.

(It was virtually impossible to hear Mr. Alsop on this call.)

K: When do you think you'll leave the hospital?

A: I'm hoping on Friday. I'll take a couple of weeks easy and then do some work.

K: Then I'd better keep away from you.

A: You've done a brilliant job.

K: That was rather funny.

A: No. You have done a marvelous job. As usual, I have my justified suspicions.

K: No. You overestimate me. But I'll tell you this. For the first time I can see how a settlement can come about. I don't have it, but I can now imagine it, which is more than I could have said six months ago.

A: ______ do a piece on the simple lesson, the difference between ______ and Hirsh's book -- and a post-piece.

K: Today you mean.

A: Yes. A great deal is happening in American journalism.

K: I didn't want to talk serious business with you, but I am really outraged.

A: For the *Times* to supplement that kind of story without any balance at all is unbelievable.

K: Here is a man who ______. I sent him to Ehrlichman. Ehrlichman turns him over to a staff guy, and that proves I knew about the plumbers.

A: But you've done a marvelous job, and once I'm on

K: I'm anxious to see you. Can you be visited?

A: Not quite yet. I lost forty pounds.

K: That will only instill me with envy. Well, maybe next week.

A: I'll be all right.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 1958
By NARA Date 6/9/1974

*

-2-

K: Will you be home in Washington or will you go to the farm?

A: At home for a couple of weeks at least.

K: I'll call you from time to time and see how things are
going. I think of you with affection.

A: This is a pleasant surprise. Maybe we can get together.

K: Will you take the initiative when you're ready?

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12158
By NARA Date 6/9/1971

TELECON
Max Fisher/Secretary Kissinger

January 23, 1974

8:15 PM

(Missed the first sentence)

K: You're very nice.

F: By the way, as far as support here, it's coming along very well. I'm meeting with the President. When I get back, we'll have another one of those get togethers.

K: Why don't we do that. I think on the trip to Israel, there isn't too much worth stressing. I think we're in pretty good shape now.

F: OK. I have some other problems. I'll be there for five days.

K: We don't have any current problems.

F: That's good. I'll just give you background on what I found out when I get back. I talked to Dick Campbell about setting up a meeting in about ten days.

K: You're a good friend, you always have been. A good friend I think the President needs now.

D: Don't worry about that. I'll be there through thick or thin.

K: Anything you can do would certainly be appreciated. That's very generous.

D: We'll see you when we get back, Henry.

K: Fine.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.1258
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELECON
Secretary Kissinger/Mr. Atherton

January 23, 1974, 8:30 p.m.

K: ______ It should be here long since, shouldn't it?

A: His meeting was at 3:00 our time, and we should have
heard a couple of hours ago.

K: On the Akins draft letter, I would toughen it up a little
bit. It's a little too obsequious.

A: That's my impression, too. I have something just coming
out of the typewriter which I'll get up to you soon.

K: O.K.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12158
By: NARA Date 6/9/1974

TELECON
Secretary Kissinger/Senator Jackson

January 23, 1974, 9:45 p.m.

K: You are nice.

J: No. I came in just as you had been talking a little bit. That was nice of you to do it for Doc Morgan.

K: He is a great patriot.

J: He's a decent fellow.

K: He's a very decent guy.

J: What my concern was, it was my impression that it was proposed that there be this so-called moratorium.

K: That idea is kicking around all the time, but there's not a chance of its being adopted - in the sense of our proposing it.

J: There are certain computations to be made regarding the position of our forward bases - Polaris - which, together with the mothballed bombers, would give a figure equivalent in terms of the agreement of 1972. Of course this bothers me.

K: Well...

J: I think that considering the mood here, and everything that's with us now, there's been a great change up on the Hill. I just want to say to you that from a political point of view, by being firm and digging our heels in in a fight, we win. I think the chances for support for those things that you and I have always been interested in and concerned about are better

K: I've heard this idea of how you compute the forward bases - the submarines from forward bases. That's not going to be in our proposal. That will be in the think-pieces. It's too complicated to go into, even if I wanted to do it.

J: I mentioned to the President some time ago. Let's talk about equivalents at lower levels for both countries.

K: OK. Of course, Scoop. With MIRVs, unless you can get a handle on the MIRV problem, even the smallest problems -- the smaller the number, the more vulnerable it is.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.1958
By AB NARA Date 6/9/1974

J: I don't believe that completely. You can handle MIRVs as long as you've got agreement on numbers. Forget about verification. You can't get it. You just have to deal with numbers and throw-aways.

K: You and I ought to get together soon and discuss this. We have an NSC meeting tomorrow. Not one of these idea are in the presentation that I'm going to make to the President.

J: I'm glad to hear that.

K: We're not making any proposal tomorrow -- it's more in the form of a briefing. If you don't have some fairly elemental choices, you lose your pants. We're not going to come up with any of this fancy stuff.

J: Well, I'll see you.

K: Will you take the initiative?

J: Give me about a week.

K: Why don't we get together the week after next?

J: Fine, Henry.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. VERS.
By AB NARA Date 6/9/67

TELECON

Len Garment/Secretary Kissinger

January 23, 1974

10:00 PM

G: A matter outside of your ordinary realm. It's a personnel problem. Al said that you know the personalities involved. Someone who knows the Government, who can write and talk well, who is very smart and ambitious and is prepared to be really nasty.

K: I may take the job. You just described me.

G: I thought of one person and Al said check with Henry, who knows him well. He meets the criteria.

K: Who?

G: Ed Korry.

K: That's not a bad idea.

G: He's running that UN organization right now.

K: He's really undisciplined.

G: That's what this thing needs.

K: That's not a bad idea.

G: I don't know him well, he's an enormous admirer of yours.

K: That shows good judgment.

G: He knows all the action here. I don't know what he is - Democrat or Republican.

K: He's a democrat. Not an uncritical one.

G: I remember he was very tough in Chile.

K: He was very good in Chile once he got his bearings.

G: His thinking is right. Would be ____ about the American liberals.

K: I think it's a good idea.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12158
By NARA Date 6/9/1974

G: You think it's worth persuading? Talk about university presidents.

K: Why give the job to a Gentile?

G: He's not Jewish.

K: Of course he's Jewish.

G: I didn't know that. I asked somebody and he said he wasn't,

K: He tried to bring in a Jewish group from Israel.

G: I asked that question very explicitly. Do you know for sure he's Jewish?
Buckley is very high on him. You think it's worth persuading?

K: Definitely.

G: Talking about Jewish groups, your leader call a little while ago.
You banished him to Jerusalem.

K: He's determined to go there.

G: Will you be in tomorrow morning?

K: Yes.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.1958
By AB NARA Date 6/9/67

January 23, 1974, 10:35 p.m.

K: ______ letter from Sadat?

A: Yes, I have.

K: I think it does make it possible now to respond.

A: I think we should send him a letter.

K: We have to tell him it's absolutely important. Tell him it will make it impossible for me to continue, but make it a letter from the President.

A: I agree.

A: I think he's had a problem. He's obviously saying what they want to here in the Gulf and then saying something else to us.

K: Although there's that puzzling phrase in there - that "I will be in contact with Saudi Arabia after my return to carry on what we have agreed on."

A: I think it's a natural Arab instinct to say what they want to hear.

K: We ought to get that off fairly quickly before they lock themselves in.

A: I agree. Would you like it tonight, Mr. Secretary?

K: The one to Sadat? What do you think?

A: I'd like to reflect on it.

K: Let's do it tomorrow, then. But it should be quite strong.

A: What about the one to Faisal?

K: That's all right.

A: Because I think that we ought to get it off very quickly and ______ to Sadat we can say that we have been in touch with Faisal. Let me do a draft.

K: Make it very strong, though, and say the President relied on the assurances -- that if this does not now work out, then it will really raise serious questions about our ability to have a confidential relationship.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O.1558
Authority
By AB NARA Date 6/9/74

A: We can't possibly bring the Syrian factor in at this point.

K: ________ on a road without end. ________ say, as Dr. Kissinger has often told you, we cannot conduct our policy under pressure. We made a special exception due to the history that gave us reason to believe that the Arab complaints had a measure of justification. There's no longer justification.

A: I think Sadat knows this. He's trying to make points with the Gulf and with us at the same time.

K: Yes, I've seen his letter.

END

By AB

NARA Date 6/9/01

*

TELCONE
Senator Symington
9:40 a.m. 1/24/74

S: How are you

K: I just called yesterday to find out how you were.

S: Well, you are very kind.
I'm almost recovered.

K: I'm delighted to hear that.

S: More important, how are you?

K: I'm fine--I am in good shape.

S: That is good. I am going to see you on Tuesday--aren't we?

K: Yeh, I'm going to be before the committee on Tuesday--you asked me to testify before your committee--before your sub-committee and I am in principle willing to do this--I have a little trouble with the dates you propose--I am sure we can work out that out.

S: Oh sure, well you know I think it is awfully important from your standpoint as well as everybody's that the true nature of the lethal force that is contained in nuclear weapons are known in general and that is behind what I would like to do. We found that we were building these weapons for example to use in Germany and that we have had no agreement with the Germans that we could use them and things like that and everything we dropped in WW II is 1/25 of 1% of what we have ready to drop tomorrow.

K: Oh no, you and I agreed that this would be a good thing to do

S: So it is no effort on our part if we would ascertain policy and get information out to the people.

K: Not only do I have no problem with it, I welcome it

S: Well, I knew that--we discussed it

K: Absolutely.

S: And you take care of yourself--you are an important man.

K: Well, Stuart you are a great friend. I look forward to working with you.

S: I look forward to seeing you Tuesday.

TELECON

Secretary Kissinger/Ambassador Dobrynin

January 24, 1974, 6:45 p.m.

D: Hello.

K: Anatol.

D: Hello, Henry.

K: I was at a meeting until now.

D: You are rather tired. You need a vacation.

K: I have a sore throat which won't go away.

D: The throat? I noticed when you ______. Well, Henry, I have two points which is just with you my idea -- not from Moscow. You are free to take it as you wish. Coming back to this meeting between you and Gromyko. You know I am just thinking. He was a little disappointed about it. You mentioned when we discussed with you there about - maybe if he really wants, he may come here. I would like once again to say you wouldn't feel in any way obliged from the remarks you made before. Just a gesture.

K: Let me talk to the President, and I'll call you tomorrow.

D: On this subject?

K: On this subject.

D: It does not come from Moscow. I just have a feeling that a meeting would be - maybe after he went to Cuba - only ~~miles~~ 90 miles he will be - just use this occasion because he is very close.

K: Oh, he's in Cuba.

D: Not now, but when he will be - before or after. I would like to mention because he may refuse. You shouldn't be surprised because it's really my idea. For two days I was thinking. He may say no. He doesn't know anything about it. Just to develop the idea which you mentioned. If he wants something to talk with you, maybe say for one or two days. I really don't know at present. It is my idea. Rather to present it as something you

K: I will present it as my idea. Let me talk to the President about it.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.1958
By AB NARA Date 5/9/74

*

-2-

D: For yourself, I don't want to impose on you.

K: I'll have to look over my schedule. I am so far behind in everything.

D: More from the point of view just

K: Absolutely. I understand. If we can do it in, say, one day.

D: Stay for a day, so to speak.

K: I'm quite favorably inclined.

D: Especially where you mentioned to me that in case he should really think a little - this kind of suggestion.

K: Absolutely.

D: Please think it over. I wanted to tell you it's not from Moscow - it's my own idea. Please do not blame me. But I would

K: Good. I will let you know tomorrow, and I think the answer will be positive.

D: Not later than tomorrow because...

K: You'll know it tomorrow. Of course, I'd be glad to go to Havana to meet him. I haven't had any publicity for a week.

D: Do you want to go? (laughter) The great interest - terrific idea for you.

K: Am I going to insult your Foreign Minister if I say I admire him enormously, but I enjoy Breshnev more.

D: In the presence of Breshnev, he will be flattered. Second, I blame myself - when you were in the str, we discussed the - Embassy - invitation for tomorrow evening. You should blame me - I didn't invite you. I didn't want to send a formal invitation. I was waiting for when you come back to discuss this. If you can make it...

K: Tomorrow evening?

Authority E.O. 12958
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

*

TELECON
Secretary Kissinger/Foreign Minister Rabasa

January 24, 1974, 8:15 p. m.

K: Emilio, how are you? How nice to hear from you.

R: Fine. You have ______ come over.

K: Well, I feel strongly about everything you've done.

R: I have explained to Miss Andrews that the President...

K: Well, I probably will not be able to come on the 1st. I will probably have to put it off until after our Mexico meeting. But I'm anxious to see you.

R: Can I meet you in Washington? Let's say the 4th.

K: When?

R: The 4th of February.

K: How about next week?

R: Let me see. Let me see, please. One moment, please.

K: Yes.

R: I have Canadian meeting next week - 28th and 29th. I can meet you the 31st.

K: I'm just looking over my schedule.

R: It would be better the 4th of February.

K: Since I'm holding up a lot of my own work until I can talk with you, I would like to have it as early as possible. You can't do it on the 28th?

R: No. I have Foreign Minister of Canada 28th and 29th here.

K: Right.

R: From Monday on up to the 5th.

K: How about the 30th?

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12958
By NARA Date 6/9/61

R: Fine.

K: Now, the only thing is...

R: I would prefer 31st because I don't know what time they're leaving.

K: I'll get Kubisch to call you in the morning.

R: The President is going to Austria, to Yugoslavia, to Rome, and to Germany, and I'll be with him on the trip. It is o.k. from the 31st up to the 4th included.

K: My problem is that I'm holding up a lot of my own work until I get your ideas -- also on procedures, etc.

R: That's what I want to speak to you about.

K: Should Kubisch come down earlier? But of course you'll be tied up the 28th and 29th.

R: That's the problem. I can have our Ambassador give the papers to Kubisch.

K: All right.

R: I will be with you the 31st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

K: Let's aim for the 31st.

R: Fine.

K: That's fine. Terrific.

R: I'll call my Ambassador to tell him to hand over the papers to Kubisch tomorrow, and I meet with you the 31st.

K: I look forward very much to seeing you next week.

R: Muchas abazos, Henry. Remember, we want your ______ in Mexico.

K: You are great.

R: A big abrazo, Henry.

END

TELECON

Mr. Donaldson/Secretary Kissinger

January 24, 1974

8:39 PM

D: I want to ask you about the upcoming Church subcommittee on oil. They want to make public all of Jim Akins' testimony. There's a lot of stuff in that testimony that would do us some damage if released at this time.

K: Like what?

D: A lot of nasty remarks about different monarchs. A lot of hearsay stuff about deals with oil companies.

K: What do you suggest?

D: I suggest we get Stan Anderson up there tomorrow and have him edit out some stuff. They're willing to listen to him. To ask them to put Jack Erwin's testimony off the record, which would be damaging to the oil embargo. There's a lot of personal opinion in there by Akins, represented as Government opinion. I wouldn't care so much of that.

K: I agree with you, it should be done. It's good of you to ask and I agree.

D: Good.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12158
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCORN
Secretary Kissinger - Ambassador Dobrynin

January 25, 1974

3:30 p.m.

K: I never had a chance to get back to you this morning because
I was on the phone the whole time.

D: I see, I understand.

K: Anway, if Gromyko would like to come here I would be more
than delighted to see him.

D: I understand.

K: It's really entirely up to him.

D: I will pass it on. In connection with....I just...he said
if he has a chance for a day so to speak it is also quite all right.

k: It might be easiest if he came on the trip.

D: Yes, in a way, on own invitation, he is so close why not
use it. You have to understand he...

K: I understand...

D: Just thinking in terms of...

K: Of course, I am sure I can arrange a meeting with the
President while he is here.

D: Good. Really.....

K: Anatoly, I don't think I can come this evening.

D: You couldn't?

K: No, if something changes can I let you know by 6:30 say?

D: Sure. We are going to show movies.

K: What movies are you showing. Tiger Shoot?

D: We are much more peaceful now. Anyway you are most welcome
Henry. Let me know around 6:30 okay?

K: Okay.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 1258
By NARA Date 6/9/87

TELECON

Secretary General Waldheim/Secretary Kissinger

January 25, 1974

4:00 pm

K: I am sorry not to have returned your call earlier.

W: Don't worry. Welcome back. I did not want to bother you earlier, but I wanted to tell you how happy I am and again congratulations.

K: Well, you have been as helpful as always.

W: Well, I have tried and I think perhaps here in the UN we are happy about the developments and I think you can count on our cooperation..... I was wondering if we could get together.

K: I agree with that. I think we should do that. There are two possibilities. Perhaps you might come down here next week some day or the other one is I might be in New York this weekend and I might be able to see you for a half hour. Are you free Sunday morning?

W: yes, when?

K: I won't know until tomorrow. Can I call you?

W: Yes. I would of course be available. I can see you at your hotel or you could come for a drink at my residence.

K: Fine. I might prefer Sunday morning but I don't want to interfere with anything.

W: No problem, if you prefer Sunday morning.

K: Well, we'll be in touch tomorrow.

W: Alright.

K: Good. Thank you very much. I look forward to it and I appreciate the way you have always been ready to cooperate.

W: I am looking forward to Sunday. I have a few points I think we should discuss.

K: Good.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 1958
By NARA Date 6/9/01

TELECON

William Simon/Secretary Kissinger

January 25, 1974

5:57 PM

S: How are you? I might say you're looking well.

K: I'll probably go all at once. I keep meeting here daily with a group of my associates and Cooper on the energy conference. I think you should join these meetings if your schedule permits it.

S: I'll make my schedule permit it.

K: I'll send you the papers so you can read them over the weekend.

S: OK, good.

K: We plan to meet here daily to go over these papers and we agree it's an opportunity for the U.S. to show some leadership. I'm going to invite some Treasury representatives.

S: What kind ...like as far as my opening remarks, in the direction we're going.

K: So we can submit them in three weeks.

S: Good, super.

K: Fine.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12/58
By AB NARA Date 6/9/67

January 25, 1974, 7:12 p.m.

D: One thing - about tonight - which I really hope you could drop in by the end, and secondly, I have received a telegram from Moscow. They ask me to come to Moscow by the end of next week, so I will be there. I don't know - this trip of Gromyko's. By the end of next week to...

K: So, we'll have lunch together one day next week.

D: On ________

K: No, no. We must have lunch before you go. Either lunch or dinner.

D: Come here and we will have...

K: Absolutely. For how long will **I** be gone?

D: For a month.

K: You're going home on vacation.

D: I hope. It's time for me for a vacation. As of now, they ask me for consultation. He already promised me.

K: We must have a good talk before you go.

D: ________ by the end of next week in Moscow. I will probably go next Saturday. As about today, if you could please drop in. I understand you are busy. If not -- it's your Ambassador.

K: I'll do what is humanly possible. When do your movies start?

D: The movies will be around 10:00.

K: I will do my best.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.12958
By: AB NARA Date 6/9/01