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DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 1558
By AS NARA Date 6/9/07

NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION

NLN FORM 101 (revised 6-85)

TELCOM
Mansfield/Sec. Kissinger

Friday, Feb. 1, 1974

12:30 p.m.

M: This kind of day you have to feel a little better.

K: That's right. I wanted to ask you -- are you familiar with this meeting of the Western Hemisphere nations in Mexico.

M: Only that it is taking place.

K: From Feb. 20-23. We are really making a major effort to have it be a really new departure in Western Hemisphere relations. We were wondering - if you, given your interest and the reputation you have there, might be willing to join the delegation for a day or two at least.

M: Put me down tentatively yes.

K: I mentioned it to Rabasa yesterday and he was really enthusiastic.

to

M: I am going to read/you in confidence and I will send you a copy of the speech I am making tonight -- after I say many kind words about you, I say "There is also the need for a new look at our relations with a Latin America that is changing rapidly. It may well be that in the excellent ties that we have maintained with Mexico ties/which regular meetings of the congresses of the two countries may play a major role there will be found a prototype to ______ with the other American republics."

K: I think you will find that what we are planning for that conference goes a big step towards what you would recommend.

M: Good. Good.

K: We have worked out an agenda and substantive program in cooperation with the Mexicans that if the other ______ Latin American countries come along and we think they will it gives us hope to have real progress.

M: Good enough. This will be the 27th and 28th.

K: No. We arrive on the 20th and break up on the 23rd.

M: 20 to 23. O.K. that is on Wednesday.

K: Wednesday through Saturday. I will ask the Speaker also and the Mexicans are inviting the equivalents in their legislative process.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.1258
By NARA Date 6/9/67

TELCOM
Speaker Carl Albert/Sec. Kissinger

Friday, Feb. 1, 1974

12:35 p.m.

K: Mr. Speaker.

A: Yes, sir.

K: How are you? I enjoyed the lunch very much yesterday. Mr. Speaker, I am calling you about a conference in Mexico City of the Foreign Ministers of the Western Hemisphere in which we are trying to bring about a new departure in Western Hemisphere relationships and it looks as if we are going to make very good progress there. Several of the countries and especially Mexico are putting on their delegations the Speaker of their assembly and also where they have a senate the senior member of the senate and we were wondering if you might consider an invitation to join our delegation. It would mean an enormous...

A: I would certainly like very much -- I would like to do so if it is at the right time.

K: Feb. 20 to 23.

A: Feb. 20 to 23. I don't have my appointments secretary here.

K: You don't have to answer this minute. If you could let us know in the course of the day or even early next week.

A: Right. I will get back in touch early next week. I would like to go. I am fairly well familiar with Mexico.

K: I told it to the Mexican Foreign Minister that I would like to invite you and he told me you speak good Spanish.

A: I speak it will enough to get by.

K: I said having heard you another night, I did not want to compete with you in a country where you could speak the language.

A: I am not that good. I can get by.

K: If you want to leave on Friday night that would be done. You would not have to stay until the end.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority F.O. 12558
By NARA Date 6/9/74

2.
Albert

Feb. 1

A: I will have to get back in touch with you because of certain engagements I have. Can I do that?

K: Absolutely.

A: I have several appointments to get out on that have to do with
helping members of Congress.

K: Of course. I would think if you could come for any part of it but
if for just a part, it would be better in the beginning than the end.

A: Better in the beginning.

K: Better to go the middle.

A: The 20th and 21st than coming down (later).

K: But any part of it would be good. But there is a very solemn
opening ceremony and it would be very nice if we could have you there.

A: I would like very much to do it if I can get away.

K: Mike Mansfield is coming.

A: He is.

K: Definitely going.

A: When is Mike going down. I will see what I can do.

K: On the 20th.

A: I will see what I can do and be back with you early next week.

END

By: AB NARA Date: 6/9/01

TELCORN

Senator Stennis - Secretary Kissinger

February 1, 1974

4:55 p.m.

S: I just want to take one minute to thank you. I'm glad you
can testify next week. I think its important to ...that we can
get you and get that behind us.

K: Absolutely, I agree with you.

S: I read you were going to Panama and all. The big matter
on this question is why didn't they do something with this man.
If you can, if you know why they didn't, I want to talk to you
a little bit before you come up to testify.

K: Well, it was explained to me that in order to court martial
him they would have to produce so many documents of a very
high classification they decided not to do it.

S: I'll tell you, I think you can make a man understand a thing
better some times by coming ... calling on him in his office.

K: Oh, I will be glad to come in and call on you'

S: No, no, but before you testify I might just ask you to see
Senator Hughes and tell him what that situation was. Tell him
what documents there were. He's a very fine man, a very even
man.

K: The only document I have any personal recollection of Mr.
Chairman was one of my conversations with Chou En Lai.

S: Well, that would be very revealing.

K: That's enough not to have come out, I mean, that we didn't
want published in a court martial.

S: I think that would come near to clearing things up and making
it understood.

K: What I would have to say, Mr. Chairman, is (1) I was not
part of the decision not to take disciplinary action, I was informed
of the decision and of the general reason for it.

S: Well, all right. That's fine.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 1958
Authority
By NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCONE

Amb. Dobrynin- Secretary Kissinger

February 1, 1974

4:57 p.m.

K: What do you propose as an agenda, schedule for the Foreign
Minister. The President would like to see him in the afternoon.
About three or four. We will let you know.

D: Three or four?

K: When should we meet then?

D: Well, in the morning. You could meet with him for an hour
say about eleven and then maybe stay for lunch if you wouldn't
mind. In the evening you will organize a dinner for him. Something
along those lines.

K: What do you think? A social dinner, or...?

D: No, I think a very few people.

K: A working dinner.

D: Well, usually during dinner get a chance to talk very much.
Yes, you may call it a working dinner officially.

K: If you think we should meet for lunch shouldn't we meet here
at the State Department?

D: Maybe.

K: Why don't we do it the other way around? Why don't you come
here at eleven and stay for lunch and then if you want to invite us
for dinner?

D: Yes, that might be all right.

K: Or, if you would like we could go the other way, go to lunch
at the Soviet Embassy if you would like.

D: I will check with him. and...

K: It's a little silly though to have him come here and then go to
the Soviet Embassy.

D: I understand.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.1958
By AB NARA Date 5/9/74

TELECON
George Vest/Secretary Kissinger

February 1, 1974

5:00 PM

V: When I sent the message to you I didn't know what you had told them.

K: Tell her that some of it is correct and some of it are wild conclusions they put in there. I suppose it will just give her an incentive to keep at it.

V: I hope that in some of it doesn't object criticism in connection with what we're trying to do right now.

K: I frankly wonder whether there's any sense in talking to anybody if they publish this.

V: I wonder whether you could do it.

K: Apparently he had one more than they realized.

V: Your good friend F__ is a religious fanatic. It's times like this, it's mad.

K: Yes__ so we can play on against another. See whether we can moderate that statement.

V: The F__ one.

K: The Arabs no longer consider that reliable. We can not carry on without the airlift. It's a decision for ____. Tell her I don't mind, it makes me look good to the Arabs.

V: Let me get back to her now that I've talked to you.

K: OK.

END

DECLASSIFIED
E.O.1958
Authority
ByAB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCON
Mr. Sisco - Secretary Kissinger

February 1, 1974

5:05 p.m.

K: Why don't we get a cable to the Saudis saying that we are
going to have to stop the process if they don't lift the embargo.
Or at least get it over to Aikins.

S: I was just thinking about this. There's no doubt that it would
bring an end to our efforts. Let's try the latter for the moment.
I can understand why you suggested this. I must say I am deeply
disturbed on how slowly this thing is moving. I hope we don't
reach that point though.

K: Why don't you tell Akins and tell him he should leave no doubt
in their minds that I will sop my efforts.

S: I wonder if we should get it to Eilts as well.

$: Why don't I send it to Eilts without telling him to do anything
with it.

K: Also tell him he should raise the ______ and ______ with
Fahmi in his next meeting with him, which Sadat promised me
by the end of the week.

S: It would be a nice gesture if he would do it, ______

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E0.1258
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCORN

Sy Weiss - Secretary Kissinger

February 1, 1974

5:10 p. m.

W:...Diego Garcia.

K: What about it?

W: Do you have any guidance?

K: No, I have to hear from Sir John Hunt about what the Prime
Minister is willing to do and that has to stay in my channel.

W: What other point, quickly, Jim is going up on Tuesday.

K: I hope to have it by then.

W: We told the British he is going up and there they are ready
to have a parliamentary inquiring.

K: Well, it's up to them to give us an answer. I can't pick them
up. I don't understand the problem. Sir John Hunt was going to
get in touch with me.

W: They probably don't understand that. That answers my question.

K: Okay.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.12158
By NARA Date 6/9/01

TELECON
President Nixon/Secretary Kissinger

February 1, 1974

6:00 PM

K: I'll definitely do it, Mr. President, I'm just looking for sometime to
do it.

N: I just want to make my own plans. You're going to Panama Thursday?

K: Yes.

N: Can you get back Thursday night?

K: I can get back Thursday.

N: Then come to Key Biscayne. I'll be there. You can stay there Friday, Saturday and Sunday and come back with me. We'll be ready for the energy commission.

K: Hussein is coming on Friday. We could probably change him.

N: Let him come to Key Biscayne and see me there. He likes Florida.

K: I'm sure he'll do that.

N: I was just thinking...

K: I could....

N: It seems to me that if you go down to Panama and come back Thursday
night then you could come to Key Biscayne.

K: I would have to have some of my staff down there. I would have to work
on my speech.

N: You could do it down there with your staff.

K: Why don't we plan on that. I think it would be very good.

N: It'll give me a week to get out of town. The only thing is shifting
Hussein.

K: We could do that.

N: Fine.

K: OK, Mr. President.

END

UNCLASSIFIED
E.O.1958
Authority
By: NARA Date 5/9/01

TELCON
David Packard - Secretary Kissinger

February 1, 1974

6:50 p.m.

P: Let me say its just great.

K: Aren't you nice.

P: What I want to find out, Henry, is there any possibility you
can come to our Business Council dinner on the 13th in Washington.

K: I am tentatively planning to do it.

P: Oh great. The thing is, as I suggested, I think this gang could
help a little bit in various ways, and we'll be delighted.

K: I'm planning to do it.

P: While we're on the phone we haven't been able to break loose
on the matter I talked to you about, the licenses with China. If you
are going to be there on the 13th though rather than bother you now
let's do it then.

K: Yes, let's do it on the 13th.

P: Thank you Henry. You're doing a great job, and ...carry on.

DISTRIBUTION STATE

Authority E.O. 12858

By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCONE

General Scowcroft - Secretary Kissinger

February 2, 1974

9:25 a.m.

K: I just wanted to check in with you, in case the President calls.
Have you got anything beyond the morning report?

S: No, no traffic at all.

K: I think I probably have to go to the airport to meet Gromyko. He
has met me so many times in Moscow.

S: I think it would be a good idea. It would be a nice gesture.

K: Could you ask Peter to pick up Nancy at the airport at 12:30 ?

S: Sure, glad to. Will do.

K: And if he can't maybe he would call Dick. Would you see if there
is any doctor at the White House except Tkash. I'm telling you there
is something wrong and these maniacs haven't found anything.

S: Really? Do you want one to come over?

K: Yes.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.1258
By NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCOM
Secretary Kissinger - Dean Rusk

February 2, 1974

9:45 a.m.

R: I just wanted to speak to you about doing this film thing. It would really just take 5 minutes.

K: I will do it.

R: Your press people said you couldn't do it. They had the cameras set up and everything.

K: They should have checked with me. I didn't know they had the camera people set up and all that.

R: Well, they checked with somebody and they said come on up and then....

K: You have to remember Dean, I am in the imperial stage of my incumbency now. No, I agreed to do it. Can I do it Monday morning? I'm not dressed for it today. I don't think I want to do it in a sports coat. Of course, I'll do it, though, either today or Monday.

R: One other thing. Is Alec Home coming over for the energy thing,

K: Yes.

R: If you can have a private talk with him, he's a fellow I think you can ,,,... who can be very helpful to you. I think he will come....

K: He's coming around I think, yes.

R: Okay, let me know if I can do anything.

K: Okay, thank you Dean. Bye.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.12958
By AB NARA Date 6/9/74

TELCON

Secretary Schlesinger - Secretary Kissinger

February 2, 1974

9:50 a.m.

S: Hi Henry. How are you?

K: Pretty good, how are you?

S: Fine. I wanted to tell you I think Fred Ikle's intentions were noble and everything, but....

K: I think it's a disaster.

S: Well, it doesn't help at this time. If you could get him to simmer down some on this thing. Some of the things he said were all right, but the headlines were bad. He doesn't make clear the difference is arms balances instead of arms stability.

K: The whole thing is a disaster.

S: Secondly, the thing on the collision course in the press....

K: What?

S: You remember, that you and I are on a ... were supposed to be on a collision course. I had a journalist in here the other day, Bruce Viosek (phonetic). He tells me he has heard some of this stuff coming out of State.

K: I can't believe it.

S: Let me tell you what I am thinking. You know these journalists can cover their tracks pretty well and I suspect some of those fellows in ACDA who don't like the new theme, or what they think are the new themes, like Frank Perez (I don't know if he's ACDA or State) and also the hawks.....

K: But my position is your position we don't diverge.

S: I understand, Henry. But what is reputed to be your position is the problem. I think this may be low level stuff as I just mentioned.

K: Well, this morning I'm going to see McCloskey and I'm going to put a stop to this.

S: Good. Thirdly, I wonder about the Panama treaty you are going to be signing.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12958
By AB NARA Date 6/9/1974

Schlesinger Page Two

to be signing....

K: It's not a treaty, it is a list of principles, haven't you seen it. I
am told the Defense Department signed off on it.

S: No, I haven't seen it. But I figure Bunker's a good man, I think
he wouldn't give away the shop.

K: My understanding is that Defense is in agreement with us. Could
you check on that?

S: Yes, I'll do that. Fourth. On the question of the Indian Ocean.
The Kitty Hawk is due to go in on the 23rd or somewhere around there,
so after the Kittly Hawk we would have a hiatus. From your comments
the other day it sounded as though that would be satisfactory.

K: That's right.

S: I thought you might want it slightly before the Kitty Hawk.

K: No, it's all right. Don't change it. How long will the Kitty Hawk
be in there? Make sure those maniacs in India are notified ahead
of time.

S: Done.

K: I had a conversation finally with Dobrynin on the equal throw-weight
idea. They don't like it, he said it means they can MIRV fewer missiles
than we can. We figured out they can MIRV 60 big ones. At our throw-
weight, do you believe that's true, 60?

S: That's the number that appears in the studies. Don't want to MIRV
more than 60 at SS18 level. But they could do a hell of a lot more 16s
____ if they devoted all their thro-weight to those, but that's ....

K: They say they would have only a lot of small warheads left. Also,
its their judgment they are now ahead of us in MIRV technology.

S: I'm inclined to doubt that. They don't have the technology. If they
MIRV SS16s they can have as many as we have, the 16s...

K: What does that mean?

S: The 16s are the small ones.

K: He said it could only be done by Brezhnev. I'm going to Moscow
in March and he feels that's the time to do anything sensible.

DELEGATED FIELD
Authority F.O.VESS
By AB NARA Date 6/9/67

TELCOM

Secretary Kissinger - General Scowcroft

February 2, 1974

10:50 a.m.

K: ______ for him to publicly on strategies without checking with me.

S: I wanted to ask you about that. It was, I think it was unfortunate. I'd be a....happy to call him.

K: Tell him you are calling on my behalf as Assistant to the President and that it is unacceptable.

S: Glad to.

K: And when you do that tell him it is totally contrary to what we are trying to accomplish.

S: Right.

K: Under those circumstances how can we put the land-based MIRV plan first? Will you do that.

S: Yes I will call him right now. Incidentally on the doctor, Ward will be available right now he's with the President at the dentist. He will call Dick as soon as he gets back and come over to see you. I'll call Ikle right now.

DEC 14 1974

Authority E.O.1958
By AB NARA Date 6/9/74

February 2, 1974

11:45 a.m.

K: _________

S: If you promote a guy like that....

K: You are not promoted yet, they haven't approved it yet in the
god damned committee.

S: If you promote a guy like me he is apt to be polite.

K: I think Akins is a nice guy, but you would think he could
kindly acknowledge when he is given instructions and he doesn't
carry it out. I mean Yamani ...

S: Okay, why don't I give him a little nudge about that. You know
its hard getting around that damn place. I just assumed when he
is given instructions he's the kind of guy who carries it out. I will
give him a nudge.

K: Secondly, I want to give some thought to upgrading that fellow
in Syria.

S: Do you really want to...

K: I want to think about it.

S: He's doing very well. He had a courtesy call with the Russians.
He's beginning to show a little zeal, and I've done a little telegram
I haven't sent out yet saying, you know, to take it easy you are just
there to listen for awhile. I won't bother you with it, but I'll get
it out.

K: Please.

DECEMBER 11, 1958

Authority E.O. 121558
By AB NARA Date 6/9/58

TELCORN

Mr. Sonnenfeldt - Secretary Kissinger

February 2, 1974

11:47 a.m

K: I never heard from Brent about the proposition.

S: Sykes called me last night saying why haven't you called us.
I checked with Brent last night and nothing had arrived.

K: Would you call them.

S: Brent and I called last night and I thought Brent and I would sit
down with Sykes and talk out the proposition.

K: Just make sure the proposition doesn't leak into the government.

S: Right. We will check with you and salt it away and then put
back into the front channel that other thing we talked about.

<table>
  <tr>
    <td>DATE</td>
    <td>02-02-74</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>TOLET</td>
    <td>E.O.1258</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>BY</td>
    <td>AB NARA Date 6/9/74</td>
  </tr>
</table>

February 2, 1974

12:30 p.m.

TELECON
The Secretary/ Ron Ziegler

HAK: The President is seeing the Russians at 3 PM on Monday and I am seeing them at 11AM. '

RZ: Why not have the little King see the President Saturday or
Monday or we can have him come up here on the following Friday.

RZ: What is your view about down there?

HAK: We can do it in the afternoon in Florida after the sun goes down.

RZ: We can either do it down there or here on the following Friday.

HAK: I have work to do in Florida on Energy meeting. I just as
soon do it Friday or Saturday afternoon. I don't think it helps
the President to see the King down there.

HAK: Did you see that John Andrews has another article in NYT?
How old is he?--22?.

RZ: Let's not worry about him.

DECEMBER 11, 1974

Authority E.O. 12158
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCORN

David Landes - Secretary Kissinger

February 2, 1974

12:55 p.m.

L: I talked to Lipsitz. He apparently had checked out various things about his report with her, including this business about "stalling" was the word Berger used. I called her back and she asked me whether I had talked to you and I said no I talked to Lipsitz and he was very upset about it and particularly about a couple of items and I said it seemd to me to be the reverse of the sense of the meeting. The business about delaying by going to Russia when the sense of the meeting was just the reverse of the feeling of some members of the group. I said Kissinger could have given the Israelis more time, but the matter was not in his hands, there was a Resolution in the UN, etc. etc., and I think this is a particularly pernicious one, knowing he is going into negotiations with Syria is it particularly bad if confi-dence is shaken. Expecially Syria should not be under attack from other Arab countries now and if there is any way we can ......You know, I know it was Lipset's report, as a matter of fact he sent it to me but I never even opened it, I had been at the meeting and Marty is very long winded, he goes on and on and....

K: Why did Marty do it?

L: I think its just the way he works. He doesn't go to any meeting without writing it down. What hadn't occurred to me was that he would circulate it outside the group. Anyway she said she had discussed it and it was most unfortunate...I mean if he tells each side, each side can negotiate for peace, the war had not worked out well for them, and if they do something separately for Israel, well it would be a great mistake, it could be pulled out of context and...

K: She's actually a very nice girl.

L: She said she had talked to Henry Kissinger and he wouldn't have talked to me if he didn't have some confidence in me, it's most unfor-tunate, she said she understood and I think I gave her something serious to think about.

K: Dave, at least now she can quote you if she wants to and balance things off to her editor. Dave I would love to see you if you can come down again. Next week isn't good but the week after would be ok.

L: OK, I will be in touch with your office.

DECEMBER 11, 1974

 Authority E.O. 1258

 By NARA Date 5/9/74

TELCORN

February 2, 1974

1:40 p.m.

K: I am trying to convey to somebody I am not feeling well.
Who cancelled him?

S: He wasn't canceled he had to go to the President again.

K: Why couldn't he see me before.

S: Because you had Rabassa with you.

K: Jesus Christ almighty.

S: He said they have diagnosed it and run tests and...

K: That's not the same problem. For a week I have been trying
for this. How long will he be with the President.

S: We'll get him over there.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. VASS
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCOM

General Haig - Secretary Kissinger

February 2, 1974

1:50 p.m.

H: He's OK. Tomorrow on the night of the 11th for the Foreign Ministers he will do that in lieu of speaking at the session. He will handle it there.

K: I think that way he can be a little more emotional. It should be a speech that can be released, maybe even televised.

H: I've got Brent working up something to publicize. He doesn't want to televise it. Also Gromyko. I have him on the schedule for noon or 3:00, whichever...

K: I prefer 3:00 because then I can brief him before when I see him at 11:00 and if it looks as if we can do anything.

H: That's fine. He was going to have a small staff meeting in the afternoon but if its more convenient we'll ...its not that urgent.

K: Let's do it at 3:00 Then I can prepare Gromyko, find out what he has on his mind and I can brief the President.

H: For your own information, if he goes to Key Biscayne he will go to New York Thursday morning, leave New York about 1:30 and go straight to Key Biscayne. He wants Simons and Shultz down there that weekend for a big energy image, although it won't be that.

K: But I need Simons in Washington, there's a lot of energy things in Washington on Friday, suppose he came down Friday.

H: Sure, he's just coming down for the meeting.

K: That's my strong advice. It's hard for me to be in Key Biscayne but I know he would never forgive me.

H: He thinks you need it and I do too. If you come straight up from Panama.

K: If we came down Friday afternoon after the energy meeting was finished, with Donaldson, that way it would really do some good. Then I can brief him on what we are planning and give him a run down on Friday.

As long as he's keeping me prisoner down there I won't let him do it while the sun is out. Are you going to be there?

H: Yes.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O.1958
Authority
By NARA Date 6/9/07

TELCOM

Mr. Geyelin - Secretary Kissinger

February 2, 1974

2:23 p.m.

K: Somebody just handed me your note to Marilyn Berger which
you said could be passed on to my top aide.

G: That was without my knowledge, I didn't intend...

K: Well, after I got through practically killing him... The first point, I agree with you. If I have something to say to you I will say it to you, not through an aide or Marilyn Berger. I didn't know this was happening. Another factor, when did I ever go to Kay? The only time I know of is when Maxine Chesire savaged me.

G: Henry, there was a case. I called you back about it. I had not intended that to be passed around the Department. I just wanted to convey ...

K: It wasn't passed around.

G: There was a case, though, when you talked to Kay. You were really
sore about an editorial.

K: On the whole I have said to everybody that I think your editorials on foreign policy have been good. I may strongly disagree with them, but they do what they are supposed to do, raise important points of view. This one, though, was a low blow, a bit below the belt. You accused me of perjury.

G: I didn't consider that single sentence an accusation, it wasn't
intended to be.

K: This business of using anonymous sources, saying Wayne Smith bugged office of Laird at my instruction, when nobody asked me about it.

G: They should have.

K: There I was on the trip being accused and totally defenseless.

G: I agree.

K: And I was in no position to answer it. I agree you never would have gotten to the bottom of Watergate if you had to identify all your sources, but the front page story in the Chicago Times said Kissinger had an aide bug

DECEMBER 5, 1974
 Authority E.O. VESER
By AB NARA Date 6/9/74

Page Two - Geyelin

Laird's office in retaliation, to which there is not one scintilla of
truth. Its not even a distortion, I mean there's not one tiny shred
of truth. I don't go around bugging people. It's hopeless to expalin
right now I suppose. When calm is returned I think people will under-
stand, though.

G: I got another message....Nick Thimmesh has been saying somebody from the State Department is saying Kissinger believes that the New York Times and the Washington Post have decided to make a concentrated decision to destroy him.

K: I don't know what State Department people are saying. I don't know who's talking to New York Times. I haven't.

G: Have you seen the ....

K: I will tell you now on this and I am happy to be quoted, the New York Times and the Washington Post have been decent and fair to me. I have no feeling whatever that the Washington Post is out to get me, Not only have they, within the limits of journalistic ethics, ...they have done their best not to get me. If you got evidence that would destroy me you would print it because of journalistic ethics. I've been annoyed by Sy Hersch items, but that's not the New York Times, that's Sy Hersh. I think we have a good adversary relationship that is necessary between the press and high officials. The problem is that you get these kids making statements who, to whomsitting in at a meeting is the greatest event in their lives while senior people are handling 30 things a day and never focus on the little things. The thing is those leaks weren't even NSC papers, they were DOD meetings,

G: Anyway that word is a strange one if we were accusing you of perjury, if we were going to accuse you we would find a better way than that.

K: What's so maddening about it is that if anyone was the victim it was me. It was certainly not a friendly action.

G: Henry, I think....

K: And the JCS was treated better than anyone else, really.

G: I don't know what your travel plans are but I would like to get together for another chat if we can, I think we are about due. I want to convey to you too that I am not at all injured by what you say to Katherine.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12958
By NARA Date 6/9/1981

Page Three - Geyelin

K: Frankly, I don't remember when I did talk to Kay about an editorial.

G: You did, you told herein effect, and she was marvelous about it,
and said would I call you. I did.

K: I forget what it was about.

G: It was in the middle of the war, you said we had been unfair.

K: On the whole thing I think our relationship during the war was
one of respect. I gave up on the New York Times, but I read yours.
every day.

G: By the way I was very shocked the other day to have Ellsworth
Bunker call and say a recent editorial was the best on the subject he
had ever read. I love Ellsworth but I don't think we were that close
together. Can I talk to you one of these days.

K: Right. Let's have breakfast or lunch in the next two weeks.

G: You'll be here for 2 weeks?

K: At least two weeks.

G: Good.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.1958
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCORN

Ernst van Der Bugel - Secretary Kissinger

February 2, 1974

2:30 p.m.

V: Are you not well?

K: I am well. I am a little tired.

V: I am going to see Nancy Sunday night.

K: But the plane doesn't get back until after 10 p.m. Who is coming to see whom? Nancy is coming to see me.

V: Nancy is coming to see me. I hope to see you in March.

K: Can you explain to me what the Europeans want at this point? I don't understand the Gaulists. They are going to be out of reserves in six months.

V: You don't ask someone in the process of committing suicide.

K: I read every day in the European press how my politics are dis-advantageous to them.

V: But you don't read the serious European press. Le Monde is not serious press. You would see they really say the Europeans are absolutely crazy.

K: I just saw a long article in the Financial Times.

V: The British are beyond repair. All that is left is the Germans. The only real question which is still left is whether some kind of arrangement is possible between the U.S., Germany, the Scandinavian countries and Benelux. There is still hope for the Germans, Helmudt Schmidt is after all one of the few level headed people left.

K: Ernst, one other problem, if I go to Migeve, the press will not be in the meeting room.

V: Oh, no. What we have arranged for your Henry, you would stay with Ed Maw in his Chalet.

K: That is fine for me but you cannot, I must travel with press. They have to be put somewhere. They must be able to photograph us, where the meeting takes place.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.1258
By NARA Date 6/9/1974

Van Der Bugel Page Two.

V: But they cannot go inside.

K: We can tell them they will be briefed.

V: That's perfectly all right.

K: But that may keep them away.

K: I don't want them in the meeting. Even if it were possible I would be against it.

V: Yes, but because we are going to talk really about issues which we must discuss.

K: In that case, what is the date again.

V: A week after Easter, its the 19, 20, and 21 of April.

K: I will make a maximum effort.

V: We have also invited Winston Lord and Helmudt.

K: That's fine. That's excellent, but I really do want to discuss with Europeans about where we stand. Will you have a good group of Europeans?

V: Yes, very good. You never know with France because they have gone out of their mind. They will be pressured by the front populaire. That's not so nice either. Then Italy will go down the drain.

K: Italy is a disaster anyway. If there were strong leaders they could do so.

V: Henry, both you and I understand. This is a sauf qui peut situation without anybody being saufed. Don't ask anybody who is committing suicide not to be suicidal.

K: Ernst, look, I look forward to seeing you in March. Let's plan it so we can definitely meet.

V: I will give you advance warning, if I may, through Nancy.

K: She's just coming in.

V: That's the most outrageous thing I've ever heard. Don't you trust her. K: You don't trust me, do you. You are a very old friend.

TELCONE

Mr. Donaldson - Secretary Kissinger

February 2, 1974

3:20 p.m.

K: ______ What will happen at the conference, where it takes place, what the seating arrangements are. I want a total picture. There just cannot be any technical snafus.

D: Right.

K: Where is it taking place?

D: At the State Department.

K: That doesn't mean a goddamned thing.

D: In the main hall dowstairs.

K: Are they going to sit around a table.

D: We've been working on all that stuff and...

K: But Bill, the secret dream of the Department is to do everything and use me to ratify it. That's not my style. I must know it, and be able to do something.

D: Absolutely.

K: Secondly, can you find out statiscally if the French pay $11 a barrel, how long can they hold out at current prices, how many mirages would they have to sell a year to make up for it. Can that be done by tomorrow?

D: OK. I've been trying to get to you all day.

K: I don't know, didn't know you were trying to get to me today, Whom did you talk to?

D: I talked to Campbell.

K: Campbell doesn't even let the doctor get to me.

D: You got the word we went to Shultz about the meeting and he wanted to have Burns and Volker.

K: I didn't say Shultz should be there. Does he want Burns and ...

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12/58
Authority
By AB
NARA Date 6/9/61

Donaldson, Page Two

D: He thinks Burns should be invited, he thinks Burns and Volker should be invited.

K: Except I am brining so many junior people. Tell him he can bring Volker, but we have got to keep it down.

D: It seems to me there is a good reason to have Burns and so forth. There is also good reason after we get done with that stuff for a very small group to talk about...

K: I have a physical limitation. I can't do more than an hour tomorrow. Since I have been back I have worked 15 hours a day. I can't spend more than an hour, an hour and a half at the outside.

D: OK, I know what you are up against.

K: What is a very small group?

D: I was thinking about, you know, Win, Hal, myself and you.

K: OK, if possible, I will do it.

D: Yah, if possible let's try for 15 minutes.

K: OK, good.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.12158
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELECON

Joe Sisco/Secretary Kissinger

February 3, 1974

12:25 PM

S: I got a call from the Jordanian Ambassador. He had been called by Rifai from London.

K: The problem is the President is determined to go to Key Biscayne. We've got to prepare for the energy conference. There's a physical limit to what can be done.

S: I think they're ______ because I had to delay in responding and without it being said, there's probably a feeling that the President is not giving his dinner.

K: My God, they should realize at the same time the demands which are involved. If he wants to go to Key Biscayne for an hour, that is fine with us, but I can't see him alone. I can't go on anymore like this.

S: Sure, sure, in other words, if the President would be available for an hour.

K: He might, he's already got all the energy people coming on Friday. There's no sense in his going with all the people he's got coming down, and having to work for 10 hours a day.

S: You will be there too?

K: I have to go down Thursday night, on my way back from Panama.

S: From your point of view, going to Key Biscayne from Panama is just as easy.

K: That's not my problem, my problem is I'll not have a bilateral with him down there under any circumstances.

S: He would be limited to one hour with the President. Why don't we just sit on this today.

K: I can tell you what the answer is. Tell him the President can see him for an hour down there. That's all that can take place.

S: Let's talk it out later, ______ direct with myslef in London. It's just as easy to talk to ______. I'll try to reach the Ambassador today. If I don't reach Rifai today, I'll call him first thing in the morning.

K: OK

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 1958
By AB NARA Date 5/9/01

TELCORN
Sisco/Sec. Kissinger
Monday, Feb. 4, 1974

11:25 a.m.

K: I want you to sit in on the Gromyko meeting.

S: Yes, Sir.

K: Where do we stand on this cables.

S: I sent you word that the one to Jidda has gone and Sadat's is being drafted.

K: Can I see the one to Jidda.

S: It is upstairs. I will bring it up to you.

K: We have to do one to Sadat.

S: We have to wait carefully and we are mulling this over. We can talk about this alone to decide if it is desirable to limit the first message only to the embargo.

K: We should give him the scenario of what can happen-- not that those______Arabians are of any help to us.

S: We will have to talk about the scenario.

K: It will tell him in a way what he won't want to do.

S: I am trying to see if we can't find some kind of a formula that we might want to suggest and I am getting together with Roy.

K: No sense of your -- the Israelis have given us a formula.

S: But a non-starter. That is the problem.

K: Have you seen the one...

S: The essence of what you said namely that it would be simultaneous with the visit but it would require you to have in hand the actual list. I don't know how you are going to do that. I wish you would but in any event let me look at what has been presented. Perhaps we can come up with something. I will try.

Sisco
Feb. 4
2.

K: How are we going to get the Israelis to do it?

S: That is another question. Particularly since this is all we have
been able to get out of two cabinet considerations.

K: I am not trying to have a showdown with the Israelis on procedures
on how to get the talks started.

S: Of course not, when the other side is utterly impossible. You
are in a weaker position with the Israelis as a result of this whole
business of the last 48 hours. They will read the press like the
~~tomorrow~~ others and know we are having trouble on this end with the
embargo.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.1558
By AB NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCORN

February 4, 1974

11:35 a.m.

K: Now I forgot what I wanted from you. Oh, we need to have the
Hassan visit set up, they've been bugging the bejesus out of...

S: I've got it all....as suggested as soon as possible after the
middle of May

K: Who does?

S: There was a cable in from Neuman.

K: Why don't you do that?

S: OK.

K: What did Haig want.

S: He was just down checking on the allocation on the 2.2 billion
so we can get UNEF money going.

K: We may have to hold up on the Presidential determination.

S: I know, I think we have to. Between the two of them, I think
mayge we should grind to a halt. They've got some bills coming up
very shortly, around the 8th of Febrary some bills start to fall
due.

K: We may just have to hold up on it.

S: You know, I have never seen anything like it.

K: They're swine.

S: I beg your pardon.

K: They are selfish swine.

S: This is the first time I have felt this way but this may be the
time to squeeze a bit.

K: No question about it.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12158
Authority
By: NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCORN

Foreign Minister Rabassa - Secretary Kissinger

February 4, 1974

11:40 a. m.

R: How's Mr. Gromyko?

K: Well, he's just arriving.

R: Not as nice as your Mexican Foreign Minister.

K: That's the truth.

R: I'm just calling to say good bye, and to thank you for all your
kindness and...

K: Not at all, have a very good trip.

R: Henry from the logistic point of view, the most important Mexican
paper is the Excelsior, the Most important television man by the
name of ______ wolski and the most important magazine is called
Siempre, that means always, Now, the man for the television has
a correspondent here by the name of Ilando Sanchez. Would you mind,
not on a different date on the same day, could you give him 15-20
minutes of your time so he could make something in view of the con-
ference, then it will come out in the evening papers. From the
Excelsior I will try to bring the top man, who is man called Shirz (phon.)

K: OK, I will do my best.

R: If you would just talk 15-20 minutes to television, the papers and
the magazine.

K: I couldn't do it before the end of next week.

R: No, no, I will have our Ambassador call Kubisch or you, just
sometime before the meeting. I will try to have the top man in
the news media speak with you

K: Good, I will do it. Emilio you have saved the Latin American
conference. You destroyed my bureau which will not survive it.

R: Henry in all history you will be the only Secretary of State who spent
his time and ______ to Latin America.

K: I am counting on you to help me at the conference.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.1958
By NARA Date 6/9/1974

TELECON

General Haig/Secretary Kissinger

February 4, 1974

12:35

H: Do we have to do this slip job, because we have a lawyer meeting we have to get done too.

K: No, it was done for my own reasons, as it would give me an extra hour of rest.

H: Oh.

K: You don't have to do it.

H: Well, he feels he would need an hour and a half.

K: That's right.

H: Let me flip flop and we'll...

K: The later it is would be better for me.

H: Why don't we schedule it for 4:30 and I'll come back and confirm with your girl.

K: I would like to see the President about fifteen minutes before the meeting. Can you do that?

H: Yes.

K: good.

END

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12958
By A3 NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCONE

Mr. Atherton/Secy Kissinger

6:35 p.m., February 4, 1974

K: ......

A: The short one?

K: Yeah.

A: We've just got a quick reply. I think all we need to do is
reinstruct him to carry out systematically all of the instructions
he has and --

K: And also he had another cable of what he was going to say, which
I rather liked.

A: That he sent in?

K: Yeah.

A: Yes. And in our outgoing we told him that he should use those
points with only one or two minor modifications.

K: Like what?

A: Well, for example, -- Let me think now -- He had in there one
point that if we didn't carry out our commitments within three
months -- within a few months, that they could then do what they
wanted.

K: Yeah.

A: And we suggested he drop that.

K: Right.

A: But otherwise it seemed to me very good and we endorsed it.
So that we've given him now the long one that went out this morning,
the one previously that you cleared plus endorsing his points. And
I don't think there's anything more we can tell him except to
systematically go through all these with each his interlocking them.

K: What do you think? Do you think we're being too hard?

A: With the Saudis?

K: Yeah.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 1255
By NARA Date 6/9/01

Mr. Atherton/Secy Kissinger

2

A: No, sir. (laughs) No, I think we've got to -

K: Do you think they're going to cave?

A: I'm dubious frankly. I thought we had a better than 50-50 chance until I saw the King's letter. And with the King having taken this position in writing to the President, I just have my doubts about how quickly he's going to be turned around. But I think that we're doing all the things that we can.

K: Yeah. But what do I do next? I can't participate anymore.

A: I think we have to establish credibility. I would say that if the 14th comes and goes and the embargo is not lifted, that we then let it be seen that we're going to stand back for a while. I don't think this will disrupt the Egyptian-Israeli disengagement. It seems to me that they both have an interest that's got its own momentum now. The Syrians really have no choice but to stew in their juice a bit.

K: Okay.

A: I think Akins has got all the arguments he needs, Mr. Secretary --

K: But should we do a letter to Boumediene?

A: Well, my recollection is that the last word was that he was not going to be a problem providing he didn't have to take the lead.

K: Yeah, but here is a case --

A: He won't get out in front I don't think.

K: But there is a cable that claims that he is supporting the Syrians.

A: Ah, that I haven't seen.

K: Yeah.

A: That I haven't seen.

K: That Asad called him, in the presence of a Saudi. Why don't we do a letter to Boumediene saying that we are near a fateful decision and we just want him to know what the consequences are, that he has my commitment that we've kept every other promise, we'll keep this.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.0.1258
By AS NARA Date 6/9/01

TELCOM

Herb Schlosser/Dr. Kissinger

12:28 p.m. 2/6/74

S: Hello, Henry. I will be very brief. I just wanted to tell you something. You remember a few years ago you said stay on the ladder at NBC?

K: Yeh.

S: Well I am moving up another rung.

K: You are going to fall off the top soon.

S: I hope so. At any rate, the Board of Directors at NBC today, effective April 1, elected me President of the company.

K: Well isn't that terrific. (gleefully)

S: So, now I have the worries of the whole thing. I will be the President and chief operating officer, Julian Goodman becomes Chairman and chief executive officer and David Adams will be Vice Chairman of the Board and I just wanted to tell you--it might be in the paper and I wanted to tell you.

K: Herb, I couldn't be more thrilled and I couldn't be more pleased that you were nice enough to call me.

S: I did want you to know. I remember that car conversation when we were doing over that TV Dinner

K: I remember only too well.

S: And we discussed it.

K: Herb, I'm proud of you.

S: Thank you, coming from you that means a great deal.

K: And I hope to see you soon.

S: Fine, I hope so, take care now.

K: Bye

S: And I hope everything goes well for you because you carry the weight of the world. Okay, Henry.

K: Thank you.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12/85
By NARA Date 6/9/85

TELCON

Joe Sisco/Secretary Kissinger

2/6/74 2:12 p.m.

K: Joe, have we heard from anybody?

S: No, we haven't heard anything.

K: Okay

S: I would say we would get word in the course of the afternoon later in the day.

K: Right, because I am off to congressional hearing just in case.

S: Well we will see, you I think will be back around 5:00 or so and we'll check with you when you get back.

K: Right, has there been--you are comfortable with the position we've taken.

S: Oh I sure am--Roy, I hope told you, that he and I talked before he came to see you, because we went over each one of those together.

K: You agree, that we have to take a tough line.

S: I agree with the tough line, but I also agree with what you have done particularly in that message to Aikens--how what I am thinking of what do we do if they really--if we are really stuck with this situation of where we got to try to make some little progress. My prognosis is, I told Roy this morning, I don't think we will get everything we want--I think we are probably going to get something out of this 14th meeting if that is the case, I think the question it poses is, do we continue our efforts--my inclination would be that as bad as it is, I would probably have no alternative.

K: You do it then

S: Henry, God bless you, let me tell you, I just came back this morning and just want you to know--I know it has been a tough week but this might bolster you a little bit--I had a full room of congressmen this morning at the Wednesday morning briefing--about 65 of them and let me tell you they were very, very laudatory of everything you are doing on this whether they are from the pro-Israeli lobby or the other side--you have got, Henry the goddamnest broadest support up there than you can imagine.

K: I let loose a real blast at a Harvard luncheon--in front of the press that they are not going to yield to blackmail.

S: I wish you hadn't done that--not so sure it would be so useful at this point, but never mind--see you later today.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O. 12158
By: NARA Date 6/9/74

I*

February 5, 1974, 5:35 p.m.

K: Hello.

N: Hello.

K: Mr. President.

N: Henry, anything new today?

K: Well, we still have that hassle with the Saudis.

N: You don't think I should intervene by writing another letter to the fellow?

K: We're thinking of that. We're drafting a letter. He has himself locked in concrete.

N: He's really locked in concrete. Until Syria has disengagement, there'll be no lifting of the embargo.

K: It will take months. It took three months with the Egyptians. In January when you wrote him, he couldn't understand your urgency about when he would lift the embargo. We got the Egyptian disengagement the day after. He said he would lift it the next day. We even were worried that it might be premature for your State of the Union address. Then he comes with a new condition. In November he said #242. You've done that three times. There's absolutely no assurance that if we do the Syrian thing they will do it. We are there on a roller-coaster. We have their solemn assurance in writing that they would lift the embargo. This is not our imagination.

N: Yes, I know.

K: Remember, in December, Prince ______ sent me a letter saying they would lift it. ______ conference table because of the issue of the POW's. Now that's going to take us two weeks to break.

N: I think I ought to send a letter ______ my solemn commitments on this.

K: I doubt, Mr. President, we should continue running around under these conditions.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E.O.12158
By: NARA Date 6/9/74