CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sect. 3.6

TELCONE

Gov. Nelson Rockefeller/Kissing

11:27 a.m. - 7/21/72

By: KMLV NASHUA, Date: 5/13/04

K: Hello.

R: Henry!

K: Nelson, how are you?

R: Listen I didn't realize you had called yesterday until Jim told me he saw you in the corridor.

K: Yes, I was back and I didn't have a chance to call you back last night because I was doing something that made it impossible.

R: So listen, I'm so thrilled to talk to you and ah are you a little optimistic?

K: they were on their
Well, ah x they were very best behavior and ah ah you know
it was--if we hadn't been burned once or twice before I
would say we are x making real progress.

R: That's very well. I understand.

K: What I think is happening they're going to---they're in a
real dilemma to keep me there they've got to keep things
going.

R: Yeah.

K: By keeping things going, they're helping our domestic position.

R: Yeah.

K: enough I think
They're going to do xxxxxx to watch the polls in September.
If we stay ten points ahead I think we're going to get a settle-
ment.

R: Isn't that fascinating.

K: And, on the other hand in order to keep me there they have
to do enough perhaps to make us stay at ten points. So we're
going to keep this thing going for a while.

R: Well, you're great, you're great. How long are you going to
be back? Will you be here for a few days?

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sept. 3.6

By: K.L.Y. NAVA, Date: 5/12/04

K: Yes.

R: You're not coming up at all?

K: No, I'm not coming to New York. I may come to New York next Wednesday, the 26th.

R: You may?

K: Yeah, I'm going to do some of that --talk to these to groups that Gus Levy

R: That's right.

K: I have been told there will be no Irishmen there.

R: No, I understand what you're saying. What time are those meetings?

K: One is at lunch and one is at dinner. Would you like to come?

R: No, but what I'd love to have would be, I'm giving a at the house a cocktail party with the fund raising for Joe Boyd who's running for Congress in Long Island.

K: At what time?

R: Ah, hold I'll find out from Annie, but I have to assume it's 5:00, 5:30 something like that-----4:30 to 6:00. They would be absolutely thrilled if you dropped by. Of course, they being me.

K: Well I'll do my damnedest to drop by for half an hour.

R: That would be fabulous. It will be at the apartment.

K: The Fifth Avenue apartment?

R: Yeah.

K: Yes.

R: That would be great. I'll slip away with you.

K: Almost certainly I'll do it.

R: Aren't you nice.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

- 3 -

6/14/64 NASHUA, D.C. 5/13/64

K: I'll bring you up to date then.

R: Oh, marvelous. This is exciting.

K: In fact it's 99% certain.

R: Marvelous. Well, listen on the local front, Henry we're
doing awfully well on revenue sharing.

K: It looks that way.

R: That was a great day yesterday.

K: Oh, was it.

R: Oh yeah, we started with breakfast with the President and the Vice President and twelve governors and worked all day with the Senate Finance and then the Senate leadership and I think we're in very good shape.

K: The election doesn't look too bad right now does it?

R: Yeah, but I'm worried. It doesn't but I'm worried.

K: You're worried about what?

R: Well ah the unknown.

K: Yeah.

R: It's ah it's one of these things that I sort of feel can go big either way.

K: That's what I think.

R: He might catch a hold and ah go beyond the kids.

K: That's what I'm afraid of.

R: So that ah I've got Dick Varella back and he's going to work on labor. We're going to get a lot of these unions coming out for him in New York.

R: And of course you can never underestimate the ability, the capacity to lose of my colleagues here.

Questions and Answers

A. Do you have any questions?

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

By: KHLV NAVA Date: 5/13/04

R: Well, that's right.

K: So.

R: I'd like to talk to you about this thing too cause of course the intellectual community is one that it would be nice if we could with but I doubt it.

K: Right. I think it could

R: Back on the same structure I had in the last campaign here.

K: Yeah. Well I wouldn't be surprised if McGovern got slaughtered. But I wouldn't be surprised if he narrowly won either.

R: Well, this is my problem and therefore I'm just going to leave no stones unturned.

K: I think that's the only way to proceed. The only way.

R: And just all out.

K: Because I think a McGovern victory would be a unbelievable disaster.

R: And I think this is the way to keep the focus, now how we do this is another question.

K: Yeah.

R: He's a strange guy.

K: Yeah.

R: Well, Henry, I'm thrilled to talk to you and if you can give us the chance of seeing you next Wednesday that would be marvelous.

K: I'll do my damnedest.

R: I'll slip away.

K: Good.

R: OK

K: Marvelous to talk to you.

The telephone is a new kind of telephone
and has never been so popular
in the world as it is now.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.6

TELCONE

Frank Sinatra/Kissinger

11:45 a.m. - 7/21/72

By: K.H. W NASA Date 5/23/74

K: Hello.

S: Is that Henry?

K: By God Francis.

S: How are you?

K: Now you come into town, you're embarrassed to see your friends.
You think I might damage you before Congressional committee?

S: Well, that's very possible, Henry. I thought it was sensational.

K: I thought you did superbly.

S: Yeah, it went very well.

K: Well, they're not used to tough guys.

S: Well, they're not used to anybody throwing it back in their teeth.

K: That's right.

S: I mean after all they guy--it was complete character assassination on
the part of that idiot that was up there before me.

K: That's right.

S: Now listen Henry, how are you? How's going with that thing?

K: Well I--we're moving it along.

S: Good. Are you back home?

K: I'm back home, yeah.

S: Fine.

K: When are you going to be back?

S: Well, I'm going from here to and from I'm going
to Biarritz and my family is going to join me there.

K: I see.

The President's Office

The State of New York

Executive Branch

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

NASA Date 5/12/64

S: And then we'll be back in New York around the 14th of August and then I'll just kind of play it by ear at that point.

K: I'd love to see you.

S: All right. When we get back into New York, I'll call you.

K: I tried to call Tina about a month ago to apologize to her about my friend's behavior the other evening, you know when you were in town.

S: Oh, don't be silly that's nothing.

K: And she had already gone, so when you see her will you tell her that I was mortified.

S: I will do that.

K: Because I think Tina is a hell of a nice and concerned girl.

S: Yeah, she's marvelous. Listen, I got a big boot the other day, Henry. The President called me after the investigation.

K: Oh, terrific.

S: Isn't that marvelous.

K: Well just for your information we are thinking of having the Italian Prime Minister come here. If he does, to get you perhaps to perform here if you would.

S: Very good.

K: Don't tell this to anybody.

S: No, no, of course not. You let me know.

K: Yeah. You would come back wouldn't you for that?

S: By all means. He talked to me about it briefly, and I said well just keep me posted. But you let me know.

K: Right. Right.

S: Now, Henry, will you stay there now?

K: I'll be there, I'll be here essentially there.

It's your last name that's open to change
in life, now as 'tis' commercial
Proprietary data?

- 3

By: KH.Y. NAVA. Data: 5/13/04

S: You'll be essentially in the White House?

K: Right.

S: I'll call you in about a week's time from Biarritz.

K: Good. Let me have your phone number.

S: Ah, I don't have it off hand.

K: No, but when you have it.

S: I don't have the number of the hotel but I'll call you as soon as I check in there.

K: Right and I'm going--at the end of August I'm going to be on the west coast.

S: Oh, very good, well I'll be there too.

K: Oh, we'll get together then.

S: Absolutely.

K: Henry, are you going to the convention?

K: Yes.

S: I may try to sneak down there for a couple of days.

K: Oh, terrific, we'll see each other there.

S: Yeah, I may do that.

K: Marvelous.

S: OK.

K: And don't you ever come to this town again and disavow your old friends. They may start an investigation of me.

S: I went in in a hurry and got right out again.

K: OK

S: I hit and run that's all it means.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12/93, Sept. 3.6

By: K.M.L.

NASA Data

5/13/94

K: OK, I just didn't want to get into a position where I had to account for myself.

S: Listen I saw you had the children on the coast. Did they have a good time?

K: They had a great time.

S: Oh, that's lovely, lovely. All right, Henry, take care of yourself.

K: OK Frank, I'll hear from you then.

S: OK.

K: Nice to talk to you.

S: Nice to talk to you, Henry, bye-bye.

K: Bye.

I think that thing?

I'm going to me there.

I'm going to me there.

Re: [insert telephone number here]

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

TELCONE
Gerard Smith/Kissinger

2:30 p.m. - 7/21/72

K: Hello.

S: Henry, are you informed on the development in the Department of Defense about proceeding now with a hard target killer for our minuteman as a bargaining chip for SALT II?

K: I just got a memo on it from my staff and I was just in the process of studying it to see if I could throw it into an interdepartmental review.

S: I would recommend you do. The arithmetic that my people have done for me indicate that if we go ahead on this line the public position the President has taken just is not going to stand.

K: Which public position?

S: Well, you know in the foreign policy report he stated that our MIRV's just don't have the yield or the accuracy to. . .

K: Oh, I see.

S: The arithmetic I see just makes . . . they've got almost the entire Soviet ICBM force if we go this way. So I urge that we do have a study of it.

K: OK. I'll put it to the President.

S: All right, I'll be glad if it can be of any help to send over this little memo I have showing the effect.

K: Could you?

S: Yes.

K: Do it on a personal basis.

S: All right.

K: Now one other thing as long as I've got you on the phone. I had some exchanges with Dobrynin on interpretation of SALT so that modern missiles on C class submarines so that it's clear that they interpret it the same way that modern missiles on C class submarines would be counted as part of the 950 and they are willing to sign such a

The following are the records of the files in the office of the Chief of Staff to the President.

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: KML
NASA Date: 5/12/04

2

K:(cont) statement. And they want to do it jointly with me; that is, Dobrynin signs and I sign and then I give to you to sign. Does that bother you?

if

S: No, I would just throw out this thought that we lack the existence of any sort of post-Moscow understandings came out it might not look too good. I think that if you've got the clear understanding on an oral basis you might be better off just to leave it that way.

K: OK.

S: We would just put it in the Congressional hearings and their silence I think is good acquiescence.

K: Well, I have unsigned notes from them saying this. So we'll leave it at that.

S: Yes.

K: OK.

S: All right.

K: Bye.

I had some
at modern
by intercept
that would
such a

Huygens-Huygens-De Looze
Huygens-Huygens-De Looze
Huygens-Huygens-De Looze
Huygens-Huygens-De Looze

CLASSIFIED
E.O 12938, Sect. 3.6

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Secretary Rogers
Secure Phone
7/21/72; 2:37 p. m.

R: I just wanted to get a fill in.

H: Of course -- two parts. The atmosphere was the most cordial of any meeting. You might think we had just given them a huge economic aid program instead of smashing them. They were extraordinarily cordial from the very beginning -- putting their arms around me and Le Duc Tho saying the only obstacle to settlement is that he likes me so much he would miss me. And saying that the 14th meeting was going to mark the turning point. I just made a very general meeting statement of goodwill because I wanted to hear what he had to say. They made a very general statement of their desire for a settlement in which they, however, did not mention the seven points or the overthrow of Thieu. They did not mention any of their standard demands. But they did not make any other proposals so I felt it was in our interest to keep these meetings going.

R: Right.

H: I did not want to propose something new that would immediately lead to a deadlock. So I went to the May 8 proposal just changing the fact that we are going back to the 31st -- namely that POW's could be released simultaneously with our withdrawals rather than prior to. They believe ceasefire, KOREA has to be side-by-side. They said now that you have gone through your May 8 proposal that they should go through theirs -- we went through them. They said they are just bargaining positions. All of this took an enormous amount of time. So at that point they said we will study your proposal and come up with some formulation and you will study our proposal and come up with some formulation and we will meet again. If they wanted to move, that's the maximum they could have done. Either way the facts the facts of the meeting will help us.

R: I think so.

K: They agreed for example to a joint announcement which they never did. I raised with them that at the meeting after next if there is one that I bring Porter along and they agreed.

R: I think that's good.

K: You have a Vietnamese speaker that used to interpret for the negotiations -- I wonder if he could be put on TDY to me for a month so that we are not completely dependent on their interpreter.

The President's Office
The Senate
The House
Public Records Office

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12938, Sec. 3.6

6/21/72 NASA Date 5/12/72

Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
Secretary Rogers
Secure Phone
7/21/72; 2:37 p.m.

-2-

R: That's a good idea. Did you mention what you mentioned to the Russians?

K: No, I thought I would mention that next time. I thought next time I would say we have listened to what you said and this is what we are willing to do.

R: We will get together before the next meeting.

K: Yes and I will go over in detail with you what I am planning to do. You will hold it very tight.

R: Yes. Alex said you would brief him.

K: Yes, but then I decided to let it up to you.

R: I think the way we have done it so far is pretty good. That's about the best you could do.

K: I talked to a group of senators on the Mansfield think -- Mansfield himself was there. There was no real ______ behind it.

R: The editorial in the Post must have helped. Okay, I will look into the interpreter for you.

The Washington Post and the open line
to the President's desk
President's Office

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sec. 3.6

By: KMLV

NARA. Date: 5/27/64

TELCONE

Taft Schreiber/Mr. Kissinger

7/21/72 4:55 p.m.

TS: The lists are being sent to you, you should have them Monday-- there are 42 for the dinner and 44 for the lunch.

HK: Right, we can keep it at the time that it is set.

TS: Now let me tell you what happened--you come first in my life. I got a call from Gene Wyman who is really the Democrat chief out here but he's been a very close friend of mine for 20 years --he said he got a call from Tom Braden--a columnist who is a partner of Braden and Mankiewicz--

HK: Yeh.

TS: Braden called him and said cause they are old friends, "Say I understand the Republicans are using Kissinger as a shill with the Jewish community--they use him to get crowds so they can raise money." So Gene said, "You're crazy, this guy is above politics--let me tell you something--he is the biggest star in America today, next to the President. And if I was lucky enough to get an invitation to come to anything that he was at, private party dinner --he said by the way there were several of them out here and unfortunately I didn't get invited but boy I'd run and drop everything else. So he says, Tom, don't try to make a slander story out of this because our country is very lucky we have this kind of man." He says no Gene you don't read me, he said some of these Jewish fund raisers are using this. He says you know what you are talking about--they have no problem in getting the money--Tom you don't understand. So he says Tom, well that's what I understand, now let me tell you now this man could be maybe goosed into doing this--maybe we have to nick or nip it before it starts, and I think it would be very smart to ah,

HK: But are these Jewish groups?

TS: No, not at all. Wait till you see the list--80% of them are gentiles for the dinner.

HK: And there will be no fundraising at the dinner and I have given you my word of honor--you are going to do what you did and you and I are going to leave and that is the end of it--both affairs--nothing but that the President is talking to friends and business leaders through you as to where we stand in these world affairs. Period.

The President's Office楼
楼内各处皆可吸烟
Please勿在 bed, din, or洗浴处吸烟!

CLASSIFIED
E.O. 1293, Sept. 3.6

By: KHLW NASA Date: 5/13/04

TELCOM
Page 2

TS: No fundraising, no nothing, and I told you that the people you have here--they are all committed. These were real friends of the President. But I talk very importantly the responsibility of having you and I don't think--I just accidentally have a friend who likes me enough that would call and tell me what they are trying to do--now Mr. Wyman as you know is head of the Jewish bond for Israel for the US the last year and Israel to him is a very important think and he doesn't want you hurt.

HK: Well I understand the point and I appreciate you calling.

TS: I'll see you, if you are going to stay on Tuesday with me just have your secretary let me know Monday.

HK: Yeh, if not I might want to use your suite just to change for the evening.

TS: Well that's what you and I would be doing, now when we get out of there, you use the suite, I've got to go home, I've got couple's bedrooms, you'll be comfortable.

HK: Thank you.

TS: I'll talk to you later.

through you as to where we are.

Hearings Before the Open House
of the Senate and of the House of Representatives of the United States

TELCONE

5:00 p.m. - 7/21/72

Tom Braden/Kissinger

K: Hello.

B: Henry, congratulations on another one of your trips. Listen, Henry, I heard a story I would like to check with you. When you were in California did you, during the week of the Democratic convention, meet with a number of people who were Democratic contributors?

K: I want to be careful in my answer.

B: Have you been asked this before?

K: No, I have been asked something else. I can't understand it. I have been told that some McGovern people are saying that I have been raising money from sources. Now let me tell you what happened. I do not raise money. I do not go to meetings at which money is raised. I do not participate in any way in that sort of fund-raising or political activities. I cannot guarantee that people to whom I talk may not later be hit for money. If it is done, it is done without my knowledge, direct or indirect, When I was in California Taft Schreiber asked me to have lunch with a group of businessmen and asked me to talk to them about the President's foreign policy. I did not know who they were except senior people. I did not know whether they were Democrats or Republicans or what role they played. I came to lunch. I answered questions about American foreign policy. I did not discuss McGovern or the President as such. I could not tell if they were Democrats or Republicans so you might say there were 5 Democrats. . .

B: They were all Democrats.

K: I did not know.

B: Is it true you are going to do another one in New York soon?

K: Look, I do at least one a month of this talking to a senior group in some city. I do not even know who is going to be there.

B: I think that's good. I don't see one thing wrong with what you are doing.

K: I talked to a few people in California. . . . and I tell you the McGovern people might launch me into the campaign if they want to be stupid. I will do my damndest to stay out of the campaign. I will not knowingly participate in anything of a partisan nature. I have agreed to come to a

The New York Times and the open life of
the President, Sir, in '68 commercial
Propaganda Week

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12950, Sec. 3.5

By KVL W. NAFU, Date 5/12/04

2

K: lunch in New York that a group of people who I am told are leaders (cont.) of the community there to answer questions about our foreign policy. I will not make a pitch for the President. I will not attack McGovern and if you will talk to the people at the Bistro you will find I did not attack McGovern.

B: That's what I heard.

K: I described what we did in certain circumstances and I think...

B: That is what I discovered. The McGovern people are putting out a vastly exaggerated story. . . . . . almost all of the people at the lunch were past contributors of the Democratic party.

K: I didn't ask them for money or support. I didn't know that they did. They maybe asked for money at some later time or with a phone call.

B: OK.

K: And on that particular occasion I gave no talk at all. I just said, "Ask me questions" and I answered them. You are not quoting anything?

B: No, everything you told me I knew. I just wanted to check with you before I wrote anything.

K: If you have any influence on the McGovern people. . . . My major use is that if we win I will act as a conciliator from the inside and if we lost I will act as a conciliator from the outside.

B: Well, that's it. I don't see where they can make any complaints whatsoever.

Re: [insert telephone number]

Re: [insert name of person]

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 1295B, Sec. 3.5

By: KHLW
NARA ID: 5/13/04

TELCOM

Taft Schreiber/Mr. Kissinger

6:03 p.m. 7/21/72

HK: Taft, I talked to that newsman--he also called me Tom Braden--
and he and his wife are both friends of mine, so you can
--what I have to be sure of though is that this is a bi-partisan
meeting next week--they aren't all democrats--

TS: We were very careful--half and half at least.

HK: Secondly, there will be no fundraising at the dinner or afterwards
right away.

TS: Right.

HK: In other words, when I leave the room, you won't immediately
start badgering....

TS: No, I'm going with you. I'm going to leave--I'm not going to do
anything like that because it would be very embarrassing. I have
said to do it either before there is a dinner or a few days later
drop in and see the people, but do not do it that way because
they'll.....

HK: No, but they can't do it before the -- they cannot do it at that
same meeting.

TS: I understand.

HK: They cannot do it before I enter the room either.

TS: This is not a fundraising affair. This is to have our friends me et you--
and to really enunciate the President's policy and which in effect is
not really known as well as if should be to the leaders of American
business and his friends--then you'll talk a little bit and answer some
questions--it will be enlightening. You and I have a clear understanding
on that.

HK: Good, you didn't ask for money at that other meeting did you? Because
actually Braden told me he called some of the participants and they
also told him that it was all substance, that I didn't attack McGovern
and that I did not ask them for money.

TS: There was not one word said. These were men who wanted to give

The telephone system has opened up a
wide range of possibilities for
public service.
Please read this article.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.5

By: K.L.V. NASA Date: 5/12/04

TELCOM

Joe Alsop/Henry Kissinger

7/21/72 6:35 p.m.

HK: Joe, how are you.

JA: I heard you had a very helpful trip.

HK: Nobody who knows anything can tell you anything, so believe me.

JA: I know.

HK: So for Christ's sake. You've done more damage in the last month with your articles--please don't say this.

JA: I'm not writing anymore.

HK: Who was the highest authority who told you what Peking and Moscow told Hanoi?

JA: I didn't say the highest authority.

HK: The or a high authority.

JA: An unquestioned authority.

HK: There isn't a questioned authority who knows anything. We have gone to great lengths to make sure there are no authorities.

JA: Now I'm out of business and hardly anyone else bothers and so you don't need to worry. I'm sorry I thought I carefully chose every word so that there wouldn't be any highest authorities or anything else.

HK: As I told you Joe, your trouble is you are too intelligent.

JA: You took the obvious, you have an even chance.

HK: Not at all it means that even if you have no authority you are apt to be right.

JA: And I just happened to see someone who looked kind of ______

HK: There is nobody who could see who could know, unless Haig or me. If a person tells you something which turns out to be right, he still doesn't know.

The following are机密
only, and may not be
declassified until
命令

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.5

By: KM. V NASA Date: 5/12/04

TELCONE
Page 2

HK: Look do you want me to take you out along with....

JA! I'd like for you to, if it's not inconvenient.

HK: Does it make a great deal of difference to you what time I pick you up?
What time are you suggesting.

be
JA: I think its nice to get out there enough time to have a swim for
dinner.

HK: Which means when?

JA: As soon as possible, according to your likes.

HK: Pick you up around 3:00-3:30?

JA: I'm at your disposal. I have to go to a black wedding and after that
I'll be through.

HK: You'll be through when?

JA: I can be here at 2:00.

HK: No, it won't be much before 2:30.

JA: Okay I'll be ready then. How's Nancy.

HK: I haven't seen her yet--she's at the Hay Adams. I have now reached
a point where your brother Stewart is inviting me not only for the sake
of Nancy, which I am used to from all the Alsops, but he and Nancy
call me stupid which he did the other day.

JA: An unusual experience. I had Mrs. Braden — you took her to lunch
the day after, I couldn't find out anything from her.

HK: She was the safest person to take to lunch.

JA: I couldn't agree with you more.

HK: And you are the most dangerous.

JA: I won't ask you a thing about this thing on the way out to Stu's.
Will I crowd the car too much? I'll see you at 2:30.

HK: Good.

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12938, Sec. 3, 6

By: K.L.V. HASA Date: 5/13/84

TELCOM

Robert Kleiman/Henry Kissinger

6:40 p.m. 7/21/72

RK: Henry, how are you.

HK: Okay, how are you?

RK: I'm coming down on the weekend, I was wondering if by chance you were free for lunch tomorrow.

HK: No, I'm not, but you'll be down next week won't you.

RK: No, the week after.

HK: Okay, I'll see you then.

RK: Now, can you give me any kind of a lead on this Vietnam situation --has anything that's been published true?

HK: What stuff are you talking about?

RK: Stuff about the--the essence is that you go when he goes.

HK: Your newspaper has been full more crap in the last three days.

RK: All newspapers have.

HK: Yeh, but yours especially. You keep quoting high sources, but I don't know who the goddamn sources are, but I'd scratch them from my list. There is no source that knows anything.

RK: That's the reason I called you (laughing)

HK: The people who talk don't know and I won't talk. No, I think Bob, we've just got to handle this now thoughtfully and to get away from this endless stuff of gimmicks. There is no master gimmick and we'll just have to let this negotiation run a bit.

RK: Is there any chance of having a military arrangement, or do we have negotiate on the political side.

HK: I just don't want to talk about it. I really don't want to talk about it now.

RK: All right, tell me something about timing. Is this--do you think we are now in for several weeks of talking?

The report of a TETAN in the region of
the Sea of Okhotsk
Magnetic Storm!

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12950, Sept. 3.6

By: KML NASA Date: 5/12/04

Page 2

TELCON

HK: That I can't be sure of. But I think we are in for some time, several weeks anyway.

RK: This will be a more extended thing.

HK: Yeh.

RK: Do you think it looks ______ or you can't tell yet?

HK: It's too early to tell. But I really don't want to tell you anything
Bob, I kust can't go into it now.

RK: I'm just looking for.....

HK: I know, and it's a reasonable question. Max isn't back yet or
I would have called him earlier to tell him to shut off his sources
because he is getting a lot of crap. Maybe by the time you come
down we can talk a little more about it.

RK: All right. I was wondering if that all of this stuff that's been
coming out, if there is some significance in this Thieu____
resignation a month ahead and the Rogers' statement that that was
negotiable--essentially now this is what we are talking about the
timing--

HK: Where did that appear?

RK: Don't remember. There has been a whole series of references on
everybody's copy. Now I don't know whether this comes from the
NVN from Paris, but anybody has focused on this question of when
does Thieu resign that this is the essence of the issue. Will
Thieu go, that's what is all about.

HK: I just don't want to go into it.

RK: Do you see any possibility that they'll talk to the Saigon government?

HK: They have been on the whole pretty good about these talks and not
talked about them. If they were at a deadlock right now, if they were
breaking up, then I'd feel freer to talk about the ______ of it, but
as long as we have something that's in process, I'd rather not talk.

Hanoi State University of Science and Technology
Hanoi, Vietnam

Page 3
TELCONE

NASA Date 5/12/04

RK: What about this two-phase thing on the political side.

HK: What is it?

RK: They talked about it last week, where they said "You don't have to negotiate on the political settlement, ______ will negotiate the rest of it with the Saigon people.

HK: Well, that too is not quite the right way. But I -- Bob I'm going to frustrate you, I just won't be able to talk about it.

RK: Hm, hm. What I wonder is this. If that line of theirs, doesn't that really make the thing negotiable in the sense that we have already said that Thieu will resign a month before the elections and will prepare to discuss whether it's a month or six weeks. And they say that's all we're asking for you to do, arrange for Thieu to resign

HK: Yeh, but you are making a lot of assumptions.

RK: It seems to me that these two pieces fit together. Don't they?

HK: Bob, I just don't want to go into a negotiation with the NYT at this moment.

RK: I don't want you to do that either. How essential is the ceasefire to our position.

HK: It is part of our position. Bob may I tell you honestly you have made one perennial mistake--you're analysis has usually been good--now whether it was right --or whether I agreed with it or not. But there has always been in the back of your mind that there is some master gimmick which somebody has missed. What is needed is a basic decision, of whether they will settle for anything less than the imposition of a communist government. Which is in effect what they have up to now proposed. Now if there turns out to be some flexibility, if it turns out that they are not insisting on that, then we can see where we are. Whenever we have made progress in negotiations with the Chinese or Russians, it was done because there was an agreement on an objective and then one could be ingenious in devising formulas.

RK: And you are not sure whether there is that flexibility?

HK: No.

RK: Right.

["H. E. S. I. W. A. R. E. I. S. A. R. E. I. S. A. R

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E01287
By: CAPTAIN DATED: July 21, 1972

TELCORN

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

7:15 p.m., July 21, 1972

K: Hello, Anatol.

D: Oh, yes. Hello, Henry.

K: I have one thing. I have this maniac Sonnenfeldt in Moscow.

D: Yes, but you highly recommend him.

K: And he's already talked to Kornevko (sp) and he's talking to Kuznetsov and Aleksandrov next week and all of this is great. I just want to make sure that you understand that he doesn't know anything about the Middle East though he will pretend that he does.

D: All right, really. I sent the day before yesterday a special telegram referring that he is a man well versed (?) to deal with specifically the trade two questions but I specifically referred to your remark that Peterson and only tow of them are in trust so maybe they --

K: That's all right, but he knows nothing about the Middle East discussions; he knows nothing about the Vietnam discussions.

D: So what you're warning --

K: My warning is for Christ's sake not to tell him what you and I discussed on the Middle East.

D: Only Middle East?

K: Middle East and Vietnam.

D: And Vietnam, fine.

K: He just doesn't know it and you know, he will pretend that he knows everything and he will try to pump your people for information.

D: I understand. Okay. You have it that he's going to see Kuznetsov and Aleksandrov?

K: Yes, I have nothing against that.

D: No, no; Understand.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012357
By CH. MARA Date 6/1/67

TELCOM

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

7:15 p.m., July 21, 1972

- 2 -

K: In fact, I think it might be nice but I just want to make clear that it would be a mistake for your people to discuss the Middle East and Vietnam with him.

D: No, no; for me it is very definitely no because I remember what you mentioned last time but maybe additional warnings may be useful too.

K: And Vietnam also.

D: Yes, and Vietnam. I will do it, really. Because otherwise if there was no additional remark, nobody would pay much attention to him quite frankly but because of this last remark of yours, they probably a little bit over-emphasized his importance.

K: Yeah. Well, he isn't all that important -- you know, he's important as my man to keep these economists on the straight line.

D: Yes. Well, Henry, I know his position so for me there is no need to explain but they might take a little bit different view because of the special telegram which was sent.

K: Well, if you would just warn them on this other thing.

D: I will. There is no problem about it. I definitely will do it.

K: Right.

D: And just for your own information, while you are there, the Secretary General will have a talk with you on all the subjects.

K: Oh, excellent.

D: But this is only for your own information. It is only for you and of course for the President but nobody else.

K: Good. Well, I'm delighted to hear that. Maybe when we make the announcement, we should say three days because I would leave on the third day or go to Leningrad.

D: Yeah. I mean, there is no problem but first I have to receive the okay from them as a matter of preliminary because as you know the official announcement [has to be ] after your visit so I am sending them a telegram......

DECLASSIFIED

Authority Folsom
By CNAR Date 6/10/67

TELCORN

Amb. Dobryin/Mr. Kissinger

7:15 p.m., July 21, 1972

- 3 -

K: ... SALT will not work anymore.

D: No, I mean, about not after but before.

K: Yes.

D: That's why up to now they rather give you proposal to be after so I have to discuss with them once again the details. So when I will receive a reply, I will tell you.

K: I take it they are not leaving on Sunday.

D: Well, it looks so probably not but the ______ is that tomorrow I will get a telegram from Gromyko so I am not saying 100% one way or another if not so. But if you don't mind, I will give you a call around 10:00 or 11:00.

K: Okay.

D: And then I will give you the final for my departure.

K: It's really a test of who is more important.

[laughter]

K: Your wife or you.

D: Well, in this case, you could postpone both of us really.

K: Right.

D: Because it's only in this case, daughter's (?) involved and I think she would forgive us for the little bit we will be delayed.

K: Okay.

D: Yeah. [Mrs. D] is just passing by and heard that I am discussing with you and she would like to send her best regards and once again -- you probably hear her say it again -- thank you very much for all the things you have done.

K: It was a great joy.

The President's Office
of the Vice President
for Academic Affairs

TELCOM

9:45 p.m. 7/21/72

Rowland Evans/Henry Kissinger

RE: What did you of that ______ affair. I think you are doing some good there.

HAK: We are going to try to stay cool, as we always do.

RE: I really think it is fascinating and I hope we can talk about it sometime soon.

HAK: Yeh, I have you down for breakfast next week.

RE: Oh do you?

HAK: If you are very good.

RE: What day?

HAK: Goddamn it, you know I have reached a point in my staff procedures where no one tells me anything any more--Tuesday.

RE: Tuesday. Well they tell me you staff finds it very hard to work for you.

HAK: That's true because I am a perfectionist. On the other hand, I can't get them to quit either.

you

RE: Hmmm. Listen do you think I ought to come on Tuesday.

HAK: Yes. It's not a Democratic fund raiser is it.

RE: Oh nono, I have to find a pretty girl for you.

HAK: Okay.

RE: Nancy isn't going to be here, I guess.

HAK: No unfortunately not.

RE: Are you going to go down to Stu's?

HAK: On Saturday, I won't stay overnight.

RE: I will see you there then.

NARA, Dated 5/12/04

TELCOM

Page 2

HAK: Oh good. Now what's this thing you told me about my getting involved in the campaign.

RE: I can't do it on the phone, we might be tapped. I am serious. I got some very interesting stuff that I'm checking out. I am going to have--I don't have any confirmation of this at all. But I have it from some people close to the McGovern operation, and I'll tell you exactly what I was told when I see you on Saturday.

HAK: How would they know?

RE: Because they are working the same sources. Money sources.

HAK: That I would ask anyone for money?

RE: That is correct.

HAK: Never. Under any conceivable circumstance.

RE: That is the way I figured it. That is exactly my reaction. But...

HAK: The furthest I will go is that I will talk with senior groups of people about foreign policy.

RE: I know you do that but that's part of the operation. No this is telephone calls to individuals.

HAK: What I do not exclude is that some senior groups to which I talk are then subsequently some members of them, I ask them for money. I will never--I can tell you flatly--

RE: I am talking about something so blatant that frankly....

HAK: Look I will never under any circumstance ask anyone for money. I will never under any circumstances be present at a meeting at which people are asked for money. I will never say anything that is directed at McGovern. I will talk about our foreign policy and answer questions. And that is the furthest I will go and even that I will not do at public meetings. Unless someone talks me in such an egregious way, that I have got to get triggered.

RE: Now what I was told and this is third hand to me--it was not from somebody with a direct--who had planned to have talked to you that you had made 2 or 3 phone calls to New York and that you had said

The president of the republic has the power to call a special session of the parliament
of the people or of the constitutional
Representative Assembly.

By: K.H.S. NASA Date: 5/12/04

you got talking about the President's foreign policy, etc., etc., and in
the course of the conversation had suggested a contribution in the campaign
w would be very --I know it sounds incredible, Henry.

HAK: I have never made an individual phone call even on foreign policy unless if there is a Mansfield vote coming up I might call the Senator and tell him it's damaging to the country, but I have never called a potential contributor or any other person and chatted with him about how great our foreign policy is.

RE: That is exactly what I was told -- I am checking it out and if I hear anything that looks like there is something--you'll be the first to hear about it.

HAK: If there is something there, it is rumor.

RE: I understand that.

HAK: But I have never asked anyone for money, and under no conceivable circumstances will I do it directly or indirectly.

RE: I understand that, listen, I just had a great idea for a girl for you.

HAK: Who?

RE: Jean Westwood.

HAK: I don't know her.

RE: She's a beauty. She the new chairman for the Democratic National Convention.

HAK: You bastard. You really are no good. I'll ask her for money.

RE: (laughing) Until Saturday, and don't worry about that.

HAK: How many people are going to be out there?

RE: Just me--me and Catherine and Bonnie.

HAK: Aren't all the bloody Alsops out there?

RE: Just John and Joe and Stu. You're not staying for the night?

HAK: I don't think so. Are you?

RE: If there is a bed, but I don't know how many people they have coming down.

The New York Times reported that the new film of
the same name had received a box office total
of over $10 million.

By: KHLV NASA Date: 5/12/04

Page 4

RE: That's all that are coming--the ones who I have named.

HAK: I don't think I'll stay.

RE: Of course, you have a driver--I have to drive myself.

HAK: Can I ask for money though at the dinner party--best friends.

RE: (laughing) Why don't you make a pitch just for a gag. We'll
play out a little scene.

HAK: Yeh, but you might use it in your......

RE: No I wouldn't do that--I won't even tell my partner about it, I promise.

HAK: Now, listen if I could get some money out of you, Haldeman
would be impressed.

RE: Can I ask you a serious question Henry? I hear Rogers is leaving
right after the election.

HAK: Rogers?

RE: Yes.

HAK: If he is, I don't know, I am not being evasive.

RE: Well, you wouldn't tell me anyway.

HAK: I wouldn't tell you, but I also do not know.

RE: That's why I hear. Listen, Breakfast Tuesday and we'll be
seeing you on Saturday.

HAK: Alright, fine.

Re: Walter Kissinger/H. Kissinger
Walter Kissinger/H.
Publicity Girl?

TELCONE

Walter Kissinger/H. Kissinger

7/21/72 - late afternoon

K: Hello.

WK: Hi, Henry, how are you?

K: OK, Walter, how are you?

WK: Pretty good. You must be ______ with all the traveling you're doing.
Henry, I just want to tell you that I've got - does it look like you might
be able to make it?

K: Well, I just can't tell. It depends how my talks in Paris go. If I'll go
to Paris at that time I'll hop over, but I won't be able to give advance
warning.

WK: Well, let me tell you what I've got and I've arranged a suite, a bedroom
and a living room for you and it's in a town called Laax which is just
a few minutes away from where the parents are.

K: Where the hell is Flint?

WK: It's about two hours drive from Zurich and it's near a town called Chur.
That's the railroad head.

will

K: OK. Well, now how/I find out - what's the hotel?

WK: The point is if you have your girl call Miss Ulman who is the Secretary
to Ambassador Schneider. Everything is set up through her Berne and
they don't know the names. I can give the name of the hotel to your
girl.

K: I'll get in touch with Schneider.

WK: Get in touch with Schneider or his secretary. They know all about it.
And what he wants to know is how many additional people you would
want to bring - of Secret Service because they would have to make
arrangements.

K: Right. Well, I'll just stay one night.

WK: Fine.

(End of tape)

H. W. REED

U.S. DEPARTMENT

No. 101-100

P.O. Box 1100

By: KHL, NASA Date: 5/12/04

TELCOM

Max Fisher /Mr. Kissinger

7/22/72 10:05 a.m.

MF: Henry, how are you?

HK: Okay, how are you?

MF: I'll tell you one thing you'll do--break the World's record for traveling.

HK: That's true, probably.

MF: Henry, you are going to be up to New York, you know, for that dinner and luncheon

HK: Wednesday

MF: I mean Wednesday--by the way I had them send you a list of all the people. When you are there during the day, is it possible that I could get a few moments with you on a personal problem.

HK: Maybe before the dinner for a half hour or 15 minutes.

MF: All right. Where will you be staying? Do you know.

HK: I may not stay anywhere. Or maybe with Taft.

MF: All right. We can find that out--I'm staying at the Waldorf. But we can have some time.

HK: What about a half hour?

MF: Yes. Okay, one thing I want to get clear--this is not to be going to be a fundraising thing.

MF: In what sense. Here is how the thing is structured. We're coming in and talking off the record and these people have already contributed very substantially

HK: There is not going to be any money raised at the dinner or lunch?

MF: The dinner--not when you are there.

I was there. I wasn't there at that

H. M. W. the open House of Representatives of the United States of America

6/21/94
NNSA Date 5/12/04

Page 2

HK: Or after I leave I don't want any money raised either.

MF: Huh huh. Did you tell that to Taft?

HK: Yes. Well, I'll tell him again. I won't come.

MF: All right. He talked to me yesterday. We better be sure. I'm meeting with Gus Levy tonight before.

HK: I don't care what you people do two weeks afterwards. Secondly, these are not only Jewish people are they?

MF: No the ones at the luncheon are predominately that, but at dinner it's a mix affair and

HK: My understanding is that these are leaders of industry and that I'm talking to them about foreign policy.

MF: Right.

HK: I'm not going to make a political perch.

MF: Correct. Absolutely. These are people who are very important--I mentioned for example at the noon there are about--some of these people have been very substantial contributors--

HK: I don't want that mentioned while I'm in the room.

MF: Absolutely. Nothing of that nature at all. And we'll talk to Gus Levy0-you know him don't you.

HK: I don't know.

MF: Former head of the NYStock Exchange--and we won't do anything that will embarrass you or the President or anybody else.

HK: The McGovern people are attacking already that I'm going around raising money and that's inconsistent with my position.

MF: I can understand that. Your meeting in California--they did afterwards

HK: At that meeting.

MF: No afterwards--I understand it that these people talked to Taft afterwards and agreed after the meeting that they committed themselves to do some work for them. But it wasn't there. I wasn't there at that

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sect. 3.6

H. P. Lovecraft, a well-known author, is being investigated for a series of crimes.

By: K.L.V. NASA Date: 5/12/04

TELCOM

7/22/72 10:55 a.m.

Clark MacGregor/Mr. Kissinger

CM: Good morning, you lady killer.

HK: Listen MacGregor, no one ever gives dinners in my honor.

CM: You had all the women eating out of your hand. I expect you middle name is Fraser.

HK: He overextended himself.

CM: You always space yourself, I don't think that'll happen to you Henry.

HK: Well, can you think of a happier life. It was very nice, I enjoyed it.

CM: We are going to have a lot of young people in Miami Beach Henry and if --I would be delighted if you would....

HK: Hey where is your office, I've never been in the goddamn headquarters

CM: It's 1701 Penna. Ave. --kitty corner from EOB.

HK: What floor

CM: I'm in 407--pay us a visit.

HK: I may come over in a half hour --within the next 20 minutes.

CM: Fine.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012587
By SB NARLA Date 05/21/72

TELCOM

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

7/22/72 12:07 p.m.

HK: Anatol.

AD: How are you. But when you are doing something and you couldn't be reached immediately, it gives me some concern, especially when the President is at Camp David and you are alone--this is a dangerous state when you are alone, and at the same time at work.

HK: That is true. You probably are up to some mischief yourself. When you threaten to leave the city, I know you are doing something.

AD: Well, I have a telegram from Gromyko asking me to delay my departure.

HK: Good.

AD: I would like to inform you at least I have nothing to do today.

HK: We'll get together next week.

AD: Yes. I'll give you a call Monday then.

HK: Let's call each other on Monday then, and fix the time. I'll send over the pictures.

AD: Oh yes, I would like to have them.

HK: That were taken at that dinner and then there are some pictures from Universal studio--you're threatening me with a rock--it is perfectly obvious.

AD: I will show Mr. Brezhnev that there was an argument.

HK: I was just going to say, if you don't I will, to explain the lengths to which you go.

AD: Yes, just to convince you of something. When you make a very small concession, it's a very hard job to get it from you. He should appreciate it, really.

HK: And then we should sign that SALT thing next week, sometime.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012358
By Lb NARA Date 05/01/58

AD: Yeh, you just prepare the text and we'll do it. And then really what is left now to do, you please give consideration about the draft treaty.

HK: Oh you can be absolutely sure, we have now begun to work on it very seriously and we will probably give you a counterproposal. We are going to be approaching each other now, because you took ours into account, and we will give you something that takes yours into account. I think we are on a process in which we are approaching each other.

AD: Because you see, quite frankly, on the record, Mr. Brezhnev really expects when he will talk with you, that you will just finalize everything.

HK: That's our expectation. We should have a few more exchanges before then.

AD: No, it's very clear. The ideal before, about when you will be there because that is why, he mentioned it to me very privately, that is why he is going to meet with you and discuss it personally, he hopes to give some opinions only to Gromyko but he himself still likes to speak you and to discuss and so in this case.....

HK: Well, I enjoy, in addition to the honor, I enjoy

AD: This is really the case in general, I should say. You can see he really makes it and he likes it. So in this case I would really like to have it finalized. When he will be there, but of course before it should be worked out.

HK: My instinct is, and I talked to the President about it yesterday-- that we are on a good course with this and that we should come very close. And I will take some devious soundings now.

AD: Okay--speak to the British?

HK: No I have somebody coming over on Friday.

AD: Next Friday, huh?

HK: Yes, but I will not speak to them about a draft proposal.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority EOL258
By CHARA Date StLOT

Page 3

AD: No, no I understand, but the general terms.

HK: Yes.

AD: Okay, there is nothing new from Mr. Greene?

AD: I understand you mentioned it.

HK: No, he is under instructions not to talk. And he will not talk. In fact we don't even have--it is entirely up to you. I would be sort of interested to know just how many are being pulled out.

AD: I think you could have all of them pulled out.

HK: I know but I mean on the present thing.

AD: I know, but it is really in your power to have them all. You just have to agree and then very happily you will be on our Moscow television like the Egyptian ambassador now.

HK: But we would like to do it....

AD: .... And telling them, my dear Soviet counterpart, on behalf of Administration, I would to announce that we come to a nice agreement.

HK: But Anatol, I will tell you now, if anything of any significance happens in that area, I will be in touch with you.

AD: Yes, definitely, that's why we are doing that with you.

HK: We took the initiative in telling you that we will not do anything unilateral.

AD: No, but at the same time Brezhnev too communicated his proposal for the President.

HK: That's right, it happened to be a case of both of them moving. .... exactly in the spirit of our principles.

AD: I understand. It doesn't matter what other interests involved in the war, but what basic principles is we have to move together.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012582
By: L.B. NARAN Date: 6/1/67

HK: Assure Mr. Brezhnev that this is our attitude.

AD: Yes, I understand.

HK: There has been no other contact with the Egyptians since the one I told you yesterday. And no other is authorized. Now if they call him in then of course he will have to go. But in that case, I will be in touch with you.

AD: Okay.

HK: So whatever happens it will not happen as a result of....but we are not planning anything.

AD: Okay. Tomorrow you will be here or you somewhere else?

HK: I will be in town probably.

AD: I will be here. My wife has an invitation to go tomorrow to our granddaughter, but now I have a second reason for staying here--if you look for trouble, no?

HK: Oh, I am planning nothing. I wouldn't leave if I were you.

AD: But ... with my wife.

HK: You could stay in an non-airconditioned room.

AD: To keep her company. I'll give you a call on Monday.

HK: I'll be in touch on Monday. Bye.

TELCOM

Arrb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

7/22/72 12:07 p. m.

HK: Anatol.

AD: Well, I have a telegram from Grumyko asking me to delay my departure.

HK: Good.

AD: I will show Mr. Breshkov that there was an argument.

By: KMLV NARA, Date: 5/12/04

AD: Yeah, you just prepare the text and we'll do it. And then really what is left now to do, you please give consideration about the draft treaty.

HK: Oh you can be absolutely sure, we have now begun to work on it very seriously and we will probably give you a counterproposal. We are going to be approaching each other now, because you took care into account, and we will give you something that takes your case into account. I think we are on a process in which we are approaching each other.

AD: Because you see, quite frankly, on the record, Mr. Breshkov really expects when he will talk with you, that you will just finalize everything.

HK: Well, I enjoy it in addition to the honor, I enjoy it.

AD: Next Friday, huh?

Revised Type of document
the State of Israel
Ministerial

Revised Type of document

DECLASSIFIED

E.O. 12938, Sect. 3.6

By: KML V NASA Date: 5/13/04

AD: No, no I understand, but the go-

HK: Yes.

AD: ...And telling them, my dear Soviet counterpart, on behalf of Administration, I would to announce that we came to a nice agreement.

HK: But Anatsel, I will tell you now, if anything of any significance happens in that area, I will be in touch with you.

AD: Yes, definitely, that's why I think we are doing that with you.

AD: No, but at the same time Breshnev too communicated his proposal for the President.

HK: That's right, it happened to be a case of both of them moving. ...exactly in the spirit of our principles.

The picture of Henry Kissinger
in his office at the
White House on
November 1, 1973
(Reproduced by permission)

CLASSIFIED

E.O. 12958, Sept. 3.6

By: K.H. W. NASA Date: 5/13/74

TELCOM

Henry Brandon/Henry Kissinger

7/22/72 10:30 p.m.

HB: Henry!

HK: We could go swimming tomorrow--we could come over in the late morning and....

HB: Fine

HK: and if the luncheon invitation is still

HB: Lovely. Are you in company?

HK: Yes. With Nancy.

HB: Oh good, very good.

HK: Don't expect anyone to invite me without her--she usually the chief attraction now.

HB: That's what I have begun to feel with Muffie.

HK: There are many people who wouldn't have me without her--you haven't quite reached that point yet.

HB: No I haven't told you yet. We are looking forward to it.

HK: I am going to take Burke Friend off your hands next weekend.

HB: Oh, is he going to be here? Great. Bring him along.

HK: No, he may be coming through for a day. That's all.

HB: Well, this is the end of his tour, you know. He'll be a great loss. All right, see you tomorrow.

HK: Goodbye.