RADIO TV REPORTS, INC.

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FOR NBC

PROGRAM The Today Show

STATION WRC TV
NBC Network

DATE May 25, 1979

7:00 AM

CITY Washington, DC

SUBJECT An Interview with Dr. Kissinger

TOM BROKAW: Henry Kissinger has just returned to this country from China. He's in Washington with correspondent Bob Abernethy this morning, where they'll be talking not only about China but about Kissinger's position on the proposed SALT treaty and the developments in the Middle East.

Gentlemen, good morning.

BOB ABERNETHY: Good morning, Tom. Welcome, Dr. Kissinger.

DR. HENRY KISSINGER: Thank you.

ABERNETHY: We don't yet have a formal text of the new SALT treaty yet but it's been quite thoroughly described. From all you know about it, can you give any indication today whether you're inclined to favor it or not?

KISSINGER: No, I think what we need about the SALT treaty is a serious national debate about its provisions; about the strategic position of the United States in the 1980's and about the relationship between the United States with the Soviet Union and Soviet general conduct in the 80's.

ABERNETHY: What do you think of that debate so far?

KISSINGER: So far I think it has been very poor. Because on the one hand the critics have to understand that any agreement that's negotiated over an extended period of time will contain a balance of compromises.

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The administration has to understand that it cannot proceed by slogans like "Holocaust," "Armageddon," "Warmongers," and put it entirely on an emotional plain. If they have a case to make they ought to do it calmly, completely and rationally.

**ABERNETHY:** Do you expect to come down sooner or later on one side or the other?

**KISSINGER:** I will certainly, shortly after the signing of the agreement, and shortly after I've had an opportunity to study the text, make a comprehensive statement that addresses all the three issues and in which I will try to make my contribution to the national debate.

**ABERNETHY:** President Carter goes to Vienna next month to confer with President Brezhnev and sign the SALT treaty. Do you think he'd be wise to invite the leaders of the Senate, Republican and Democrat to go along with him?

**KISSINGER:** I frankly think it would be a mistake. I think that President Carter ought to consult with the leaders of the Senate now -- between now and the summit. I think when you have a congressional delegation along you either have them in the room and then you have somebody entering a negotiation in the last minute of a year long effort, or you don't have them in the room and then you spend all your time briefing them and you create the wrong impression that at that summit detailed negotiations are going on which if the summit is well prepared should not be the case. The summit ought to ratify something that has already been agreed to ahead of time.

**ABERNETHY:** The Senate probably will want to put its mark on the SALT treaty. From what you know of the Soviets do you think they'd accept the kind of change the Senate might want to make?

**KISSINGER:** It depends on the changes. There are some that the Soviets might accept. There are others that are tantamount to rejection. And I think that amendments ought to considered in that context.

**ABERNETHY:** As Tom indicated, you're just back from what, ten days in China?

**KISSINGER:** Ten days, yes.

**ABERNETHY:** Talking with the leaders there. Among them Vice Premier Teng, the man who came here last January. Apparently he's been the target of criticism within China recently. Did you get any sense of how stable his position is?

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KISSINGER: Well, it's extremely difficult when you're the visitor in a complicated society for ten days to judge the relative position of various leaders.

China is undergoing a tremendous effort to alter its economic prospects. And that is bound to threaten certain established orthodoxies and therefore there's bound to be a dispute.

I had the sense when I was there that was a serious discussion going on about economic priorities, centralization and decentralization and a less detailed discussion about the general foreign policy position of China.

ABERNETHY: How worried are they about what appears to be growing Soviet involvement in Vietnam?

KISSINGER: They're extremely worried. They consider what is happening in Indochina as something that could not have happened without Soviet encouragement. And I believe they're right in this respect in the sense that it was the Soviet-Vietnamese friendship treaty that preceded the Soviet, in effect, annexation of Cambodia -- the Vietnamese annexation of Cambodia.

ABERNETHY: Today in the Middle East the Israelis handed El Arish in the Sinai to Egypt, new talks begin over the future of the West Bank. What's your sense of the outlook there now for those talks?

KISSINGER: I think there are two separate issues in the Middle East right now. There's the Egyptian-Israeli problem which will now be ushered in -- which will now be continued by these talks. Secondly, there's the moderate radical split within the Arab world which has been accelerated by events in Iran and has been getting [?] a very sharp point.

I think the Israeli-Arab talks with patience and wisdom, I'm optimistic about. The moderate radical split has been a debacle ever since Iran and has put our friends in the Middle East, into an extremely difficult position.

ABERNETHY: You've indicated in the past that you think we ought to have some kind of presence -- military presence as I understood it -- in the Middle East. Do you still think so, and what do you have in mind?

KISSINGER: I think we have to have a military presence close enough to the Middle East, not in the Middle East itself. Close enough to the Middle East so that countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the emirates know that there is some recourse

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against external enemies and if necessary externally inspired
internal pressures.

ABERNETHY: Dr. Kissinger, Tom has a question in
New York.

BROKAW: Dr. Kissinger, there continues to be specu-
lation about your personal future -- you were out at a Republi-
can fund raiser in Iowa just recently again. Are you getting
ready to run for office?

KISSINGER: Certainly not in Iowa. I did a fund
raiser in Iowa because Governor Ray was a close friend of
my old and deceased friend, Nelson Rockefeller. Nelson
Rockefeller had asked me to do that a year and a half ago
and I kept the promise that I had made a long time ago.

BROKAW: Well, what about back here in New York,
though? Are you thinking about running for the Senate from
New York?

KISSINGER: As far as I can tell, Senator Javits is
going to -- is active and is going to run and I expect to
support him.

BROKAW: But should he not run, would you be interested
in that seat?

KISSINGER: Should he not run then I will look at the
situation as it then exists.

ABERNETHY: Dr. Kissinger, you've spoken of the debt
of honor that this country owes the Shah of Iran for his loyalty
over many years to our interests. You've been trying to find
a place for him to settle. Have you found one?

KISSINGER: I haven't so much found -- looked for a
place for him to settle -- I -- although I have talked to people
about it. Seems to me here is a man who was a close friend of
the United States for 27 years; to presidents of both parties
and five administrations. I think we're violating our historic
principles in not letting him come here as a private citizen.
Of course we should get along with the present government in
Iran but that does not exclude letting an old friend come here
as a private citizen.

ABERNETHY: Dr. Kissinger, many thanks.

Back to Tom.

BROKAW: Bob, Dr. Kissinger, thanks very much.