TelCon
Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

7:22, June 4, 1973

D: Hello.

K: Anatol.

D: Henry. I really would like to give you or to Sonnenfeldt this text we are going through on the communique. Just to make it easy to look in it.

K: Send it over to General Scowcroft.

D: To Scowcroft.

K: Yes.

D: I will send it, but tomorrow I will get--cause it's my working paper really. Okay.

K: You want it back.

D: Yes. Afterwards. Tomorrow when you are leaving.

K: Okay, well send it over to General Scowcroft.

D: Scowcroft.

K: Right.

D: Then I will just put there plus, minus, to be clear, whether it's plus or minus

K: I understand. It isn't necessary, but I understand.

D: All right. But just for your own when you are looking.

K: Okay. Good.

D: Okay. And second, again I would rather have to raise it Sonnenfeldt, today Alhimov came to me and he said all the negotiations stops completely, and already give in on some papers, now all the people exempt Import Bank Director said, make quite a fuss, saying that nobody is going over my head. I'll completely eliminate all the agreements and stop all again. So there is use to continue any discussion now with Alhimov. Alhimov came to me and said he doesn't know what to do.

K: I'll do something tomorrow.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority
Date

HOT
5/22/73
BY: N.A. Kissinger

TelCon
Amb. Sullivan/Mr. Kissinger

1:50 pm, June 4, 1973

K: Hello.

S: Hello Henry.

K: How are you.

S: Fine.

K: I've been reading, I would appreciate it tomorrow, I don't know where you stand I haven't seen today's results yet--if you could turn to, unless you did it today, to the issue I've been discussing also with others.

S: Well, let me find where we stand today.

K: So that I have some sense of what we are up against. We know what we can do on the communique.

S: The messages I will be sending in to you

K: Yeah.

S: First, you will discover that I have completed agreement on the text of the communique.

K: Right. Remember, we don't want the French to know everything.

S: Yeah. Well, there's a certain amount of garbage, but I think it's acceptable. There will be some other messages

K: I know, two other--whom to approach.

S: There will be some other messages suggesting action which I think is necessary to make this acceptable all the way around.

K: Right. We'll get those off immediately.

S: Right. You will find that I did raise the subject that you are talking about, and you will find some commentary in my cable on where I think we stand on that.

K: Good. Well, I'm getting some messages on that subject this afternoon which I will pass on to you.

DECS. ASGIFT
Authority E012958
DATE MAY 6/2/73
P.O. BOX 1244

2

S: Oh, good. We will not be meeting in the morning tomorrow, we'll be meeting tomorrow afternoon. I hope that will be time for you to take the follow on actions and perhaps give me some guidance and assurance when I go into the meeting tomorrow afternoon.

K: And we still plan the Thursday meeting.

S: The 6th, what day is that, Wednesday or Thursday.

K: That's Wednesday. Than the expanded group.

S: Expanded group has been proposed, it has not yet been thoroughly accepted but I think it will be.

K: Okay. But our darlings understand what they are to do.

S: Yes. And you will see, I've just finished talking with them.

K: Were you awake.

S: (Laughter) Sure.

K: Okay.

S: I can't say much more on this, but the messages, you should have the first of them within 15 or 20 minutes. The messages are starting in right now.

K: Have you left anything for Wednesday.

S: There's that one major subject you still got.

K: Now listen, I, for complicated internal reasons here, am bringing Ron Ziegler along. He's not going to perform any press functions while he's there. I'll explain it to you. You convey to your opposite numbers that he'll sit in on the meetings, but not in any press capacity.

S: All right.

K: And that total secrecy will be maintained.

S: All right. Now, is there anybody else to know this.

K: That Ziegler's coming?

S: Yeah.

K: N:o

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E01298
D#4 NARAL DRE 6/29/98

S: Well, this becomes of accommodations--

K: We'll let them know.

S: Okay.

K: But you can clear it with "Ducky".

S: Yeah. I'll just tell them that -- the latter part of what you said, that there's no press aspect.

K: No press aspect, it's a straight White House martyr

S: Okay. It sounds like the greatest internal operations.

K: That's right. It's so devious that no one understands it.

S: Okay, Henry.

K: But in the best traditions of the White House.

S: Okay.

K: Okay, I'll see you tomorrow evening.

S: Yes, tomorrow evening, I'll be at the airport.

K: Good. Look forward to it.

S: Okay, Henry. Bye.

K: Bye.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority: EO 12958

Dated: MAR 27 1987

TelCon
Jerry Schecter/Mr. Kissinger

3:30 pm, June 4, 1973

K: Hello.

S: Hi, Henry, how are you.

K: Okay,

S: Good. I just was hoping maybe I could get some sense of what's going to happen this week. Are you going--do you have any idea how long you are going to be in Paris?

K: Well, I hope to be able to be back over the weekend.

S: I see. Do you expect to announce anything there or will you do it back here, or

K: I'm not sure, it's not inconceivable that we announce something there.

S: I see. I'm just wondering whether I ought to fly over and join you.

K: Well, as I said, it's not inconceivable, but it's not guaranteed.

S: Yeah. I see. Well are you pretty optimistic?

K: I'm fairly optimistic, yeah.

S: Well, I just talked to a couple of Senators last night and they seem to be pretty optimistic--talking about July 1st.

K: What do you mean about July 1.

S: Well, I don't know, that would be the time that bombing stops and

K: They sure don't know a God damned thing.

S: Yeah.

K: You know, we are hoping to bring it off.

S: I see you are a hawk now.

K: Well, what is amusing to me is, I don't think you did all that well by me in Time incidentally, Jerry, I was not amused by that article, but leaving that aside

S: Really.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E012858
Dated NARA Ref. 6/2/74

2

K: Yeah, I mean you never made clear that these things were afterall, legal, but let's not go into that.

S: Well, listen Henry, the only think I can say is that I did the best I could and that stuff didn't come from me. I mean, I've just been fighting these guys off, and you know, one of these days I can tell you a couple of stories too, but frankly you know sometimes you have to cut your losses. I thought that on balance it certainly made it clear that no matter what these guys say that they're not in the White House and they are not the ones that are dealing with the problem.

K: Well, let's not argue about a problem that's over the--what was your question, am I fairly optimistic.

S: Should we look for a Laos type solution there or

K: Oh, am I fairly optimistic in Cambodia?

S: Yeah.

K: It's too early for me yet to tell.

S: I see, what are we going to do about the I'

K: We are engaged in very active diplomacy on it.

S: Good, and

K: And you know, it's--you should always assume really that there's more going on than meets the eye, or may even be apparent this week.

S: I see. What are we going to do about the ICC and the Canadians. I hear that the Norwegians don't want to do it and the Danes don't want to do it, and we are now stuck between the Brazilians and the Malaysians.

K: We haven't approached anybody. And we are thinking of several possibilities and several other ways of handling this problem.

S: I see. Can you give me any ideas how you are thinking about doing this.

K: No because we'd like to discuss it first in Paris. Let's see first how these negotiations go this week.

S: Okay. Listen, can I give you a call later in the week.

K: Are you going to be there.

DELEGATED
AUTHORITY E012858

DELEGATED
AUTHORITY E012858

DELEGATED
AUTHORITY E012858
Dated: 6/2/04

TelCon

Rowland Evans/Mr. Kissinger

3:42 pm, June 4, 1973

K: Hello.

E: Hello Henry.

K: How are you.

E: I'm all right, how are you. That was a hell of a nice party.

K: It was nice of you to come.

E: .................... how they go.

K: Well, why.

E: Oh, that's just the way time goes down here, how many events, crises. Are you off tomorrow.

K: I'm off tomorrow, yes.

E: What time?

K: About 9:30, 10:00.

E: Well, I wanted to see how you felt this situation was going, not Vietnam, but the messy situation. You've been very helpful to me on that, I just wondered what you thought right now.

K: I'm extremely depressed. You know, I think there's a death wish in this country right now on every side.

E: On every side, yeah.

K: On every side. You know, it's

E: But what's the alternative at this stage on the side of the attackers.

K: Well the alternative on the side of the attackers, one alternative would be to get Haldeman, Ehrlichman and Mitchell on the stand and get it over with. All the rest is baloney. Either they will say that the President knew it, or they won't.

E: Well, they'll lie through their teeth.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority EO 1298
Dated NAP 12/24

2

K: Well, then they'll lie through their teeth five weeks from now.

E: Well, that depends, that's possible. But I don't know. I know that's the old--joe has been writing that fairy story

K: Well, he didn't get it from me. I've just never discussed it.

E: Got it from Dick Kleindienst. But I--what about the counter attack Henry, you think this is going to be a vicious, brutal affair, or is it just going to be low key.

K: Well, I think if these presses keep up long enough, it's going to revoke, I'm just going on past performance of violent reaction here.

E: I

K: I mean, it's just in the nature--look at the history. I'm not--I have no knowledge whatsoever and this is the sort of thing that's never discussed with me, but my instinct would be that if this keeps up long enough

E: Well, it's going to. You can be damned sure of it.

K: Looking at it from the national point of view, what possible purpose is served if the President is forced out of office. Totally emasculated.

E: Yeah, you can't answer that because it's beyond that point. I don't know any Democrat, Henry, who wants that to happen, not one except maybe--Henry Royce. Moss Democrats, it's ______ they want, but that doesn't say that they can be satisfied with something less than a thorough, complete total investigation. Now, if that produces the memo, the evidence that everybody's talking about, that may or may not exist.

K: What memo.

E: Well, nobody knows. I mean, if that really implicates Mr. Nixon, then the Democrats and the Republicans are going to feel impelled to do justice, or to see that justice is done on grounds that if it isn't you don't have a country worth living in. You don't have a system that can be said, that can be permitted to be operated--a president totally vulnerable, then

K: I don't believe, you know my estimate is it will show neither one nor the other.

E: I tend to agree with that, but that's not going to -- that (tape ends)

D/C/ASSIFIED
Authority E012858
Date NARA Dkt 6/2/84

3

(start new tape)

K: ...that stage they've been at that stage since WWII for a creative period. But we needed a creative period in order to get it established and institutionalized.

E: I agree, I agree.

K: And you can't hold that still for 3-1/2 years while we purify ourselves because then the people and the moment will have been lost.

E: How long are you going to be gone this trip?

K: I'll be back Saturday or Sunday.

E: How about breakfast next week.

K: Certainly.

E: Can you do it?

K: Yeah.

E: Perhaps Monday.

K: Let's aim for Monday. Can we do it early because we have a staff meeting.

E: 6 o'clock if you want.

K: 7:45 in my office.

E: 7:45 Monday. I thought it was a great party Henry.

K: I thought it was rather moving. And I was really very, I haven't had a chance to tell you, incidentally, how much I appreciated the article you wrote.

E: Well, I believe it you know, I

K: I mean, Mel Laird was in the other day and was a little upset by something you had told him about--he had had nothing to do with the matter that I mentioned.

E: Well, he knew that. There was never any question about that.

K: Okay, good.

E: Never any question about that.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012858
Dated 6/2/84

HHS NAFU DRE 6/2/84

4

K: Good, fine.

E: He's very high on you, too.

K: He's a great patriot.

E: He considered that you were his ally on this.

K: I was. And his friend.

E: You don't have any plans in the next few months, do you?

K: For what.

E: Well, you know, getting out.

K: Getting out. I want to see where we stand in another month or so.

E: I'll see you Monday for breakfast. That is next Monday.

K: Next Monday. Good.

E: Very good sir, bye.

K: Bye.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012858

P/11 NARA DRE 6/2/84

TELCORN

Mr. Kissinger/Sir Burke Trend

4:25 p.m.

6/4/73

HK: Burke.

BT: Henry.

HK: I have thought about this trilateral idea for later this week and I think--I simply want to put to you whether it is a good idea to press French before I have had even one bilateral from your side.

BT: Hummm. Maybe it is a good idea to press them before you have had--

HK: I mean before--you see Pompidou and the President met, they agreed that Jobert and I would meet, now if you approach them to have a trilateral--in effect to join this before I had even met Jobert, would it not raise again in their minds Angbo-American ganging up on them.

BT: Oh yeh--suspicions....

HK: You know from a selfish point of view I'd like you to be there, but I am just wondering whether I should go one round bilaterally or whether I shouldn't be the one that proposed it.

BT: Henry, that would be perfectly all right by us.

HK: No, no, but what do you think.

BT: I think that you are probably right. But when you proposed, just send us a signal--

HK: Then it would be easy

BT: Well then I will do nothing until We hear from you, is that right?

HK: What would be my--look if you want to do it having had this caution? I would prefer it--I would like it.

BT: No, I would rather that you start it off. But when you have done it,

HK: I will immediately get in touch with you.

BT: See what their reaction is. And I think if you could tell us whether

DELEGATED
Authority E012958
Dated NARA No. 6/20/73
Hlt

Page 2

they agree or don't agree, it would be helpful to us to know.

HK: I will give you a summary of the meeting.

BT: You wouldn't be able to look in on your way back probably?

HK: I doubt it, I really ought to get back for the summit, but if I can it
would be Friday night and Saturday morning or something like that.

BT: I was going to be away Saturday, but if you could let me know by Friday
afternoon.

HK: Oh certainly.

BT: Or let me know as soon as you can, because if I know by Friday,
I can cancel Saturday without difficulty.

HK: Right.

BT: But I will do nothing till I hear from you by Friday afternoon at
latest.

HK: Right.

BT: I still think this is the best way of getting on.

HK: About the substance, I have no question at all.

BT: Okay Henry.

HK: Bye.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E012858
Dated NARA Doc 6/2/89

TELCONE

Irving Lazar /Mr. Kissinger

4:45 p/m.

6/4/73

IL: Henry.

HK: How are you?

IL: I'm very well, how are you. Busy than ever.

HK: That's right. I'm on my off to Europe.

IL: Did you get to see Gabby?

HK: No, she was out of town, as I understood

IL: Yes, but I ought to give your secretary when I get through speaking to you the number in the country so that you can call her--I'm surprised, didn't she leave a message for you at the Embassy?

HK: Her husband called.

IL: Yes.

HK: And I never had a chance to return the call.

IL: Otherwise he would have given you the number in the country.

HK: Oh I see.

IL: I'll give your secretary the number in the country in case when you come in -- when you go back --you see they are having their flat at the Avenue Faucsh Rive *done* and they're living at the Hotel Maurice--they have a whole floor, but meanwhile for weekends, they go to their place--when you get to Paris, I'll give your secretary the exact number of how to call her--if you would call--you would drive down--it's only two hours from Paris.

HK: There is no possible way I would have *tm* the time on this trip.

IL: I see, well. In any event it is very likely if you get to talk to Gabby --if she knew where you were, she would have called you and she would have come up--anyway I'll give your secretary the Maurice number and the country number.

HK: Marvelous.

DELEGATED
Authority E012858
Date 6/2/73
HHT NARA D3

TELCOM
The President/Mr.Kissinger

4:47 p.m. 6/4/73

RN: Hi, Henry. You wanted to pass on some good news, huh?

HK: Yeh, you had a note from Mao in response to what you said, inviting you to come to China.

RN: Good.
You'll be there tomorrow, will ya? I've got a heavy day today, so I can't--

HK: I'm going to Paris tomorrow, but I'll be at the Leaders meeting

RN: That's what I meant--8:30

HK: Yeh, and I'll leave right after that.

RN: Great. We'll have a chance to see you there, okay?

HK: Right, Mr. President, but I thought you might like--

RN: It's okay. Thank you.

HK: XX Right.

CLASSIFIED

Authority: EO 12958

Date: 6/4/73
Time: 6:04

TELCOM

Ambassador Porter/Mr. Kissinger

4:50 p.m.

6/4/73

AP: Henry.
HK: Yes.

AP: Bill Porter, good afternoon. I have a problem over here which involv
the vote on the resolution before the International Civil Aviation
organization and the vote will be on the resolution sponsored by the
Egyptians condemning Israel. The Egyptians have the votes, every
attempt to soften the ______ with regard to that section of the text
which connects the shooting down of the Libyan plane ______ previous
incident and Beirut has failed and the others who have failed like our-
selves in the effort meaning the principal nations of Western Europe a
voting to condemn --voting for the Egyptian resolution. The quarrel
over here in State has been whether to abstain or vote for the condem-
nation as we did on the previous preliminary resolution some months
back when the event occurred when the plane was shot down in and 110
people died. Now after looking at the argumentation, here, I have
decided we should vote also to condemn--supporting the resolution.
But there may be considerations of which you are aware which I am
not which dictates another vote which would be an abstention. This
is a--they've just thrown this at us this afternoon and I am sorry to
bother you about it.

HK: I would lean towards abstention because we have already got the
Israelis inflamed with the Saudi deal and we have Brezhnev coming
and we need their help in trying to keep the Jewish group quiet.

AP: I thought you might have a different approach to it and that is one
reason why I am calling you in fact.
My principals are absent and I didn't want to move on this without
consulting you.

HK: Right, thank you.

AP: I will go for abstention.

HK: Thank you.

DELEGATED
Authority E012858
Dated 6/4/73
H.A.T.

TELCOM

Mr. Kissinger/Bernard Gwertzman

4:53 p.m. 6/4/73

BG: Hi, Dr. Kissinger. We were just wondering for planning purposes, does the fact that Ron's going with you that there'll be sort of a press conference in Paris or anything like that?

HK: No, we just thought that he should acquaint--you know, it may or may not--I don't have to have Ron along to have a press conference. We just thought he should have--off-the-record--some more exposure to some substantive matters.

BG: Isee. How many days you will be in Paris this time?

HK: Three or 4--I don't exclude that there may be a press conference.

BG: Sure. No. I hope you can finish it like you hope.

HK: I never learn do I. That's the second time I've said it.

BG: About --

HK: About settling something in 3 or 4 days and when it doesn't work you guys are all after me.

BG: No, I think we have all learned our lesson. We don't take three or four days too seriously any more. I guess from your comments your talks went pretty well actually. Your talks in Iceland.

HK: Well yes -- Apple I don't think understood what the hell we were trying to do with all due respect--we didn't want a substantive confrontation or discussion. Because we'd rather discuss substance in larger forums.

BG: I read the second day story--

HK: No, second day was okay.

BG: We have our bureaucratic problems too.

HK: I thought what you wrote in the News of the Week was good.

G: All right, I'll be talking to you on the Brezhnev thing when you get back.

DECT ASSIGNED
Authority E012858
Dated NARRATED 6/2/73

TelCon

Mr. Lazar/Mr. Kissinger

6:33 pm, June 4, 1973

L: ... sounds like a lovely party. There were no Belly Dancers, but it sounds like a charming party for a man of your dignity and your stature.

K: I think that's right.

L: The impression I got, as a matter of fact, ______ told me that the party

K: The party was perfect.

L: But naturally I suppose you had guys standing outside saying what about--to embarrass you or something, and you said I've got too many years, I imagine

K: Yeah.

L: If this other bloody thing gets cleared up, which I don't think will be for years.

K: Yeah.

L: There's no way it's being cleared up for years, one way or the other. No matter which way it goes. And you are living under harassment that you never contemplated obviously. Are you leaving for Paris this coming week.

K: I'm leaving tomorrow morning first thing.

L: Oh, I thought it was Wednesday.

K: No, no, tomorrow first thing.

L: I see. And then you probably will be out here some time.

K: I'll be out at the end of June.

L: Well, when you come back I'll check you out, call you up and remind you, and when you do come up, we'd love to have you come to dinner.

K: Good. That would be lovely.

DELEGATED
Authority EO 12888
D. J. HARRIS NARA Dkt. 6/2/73

2

L: Would love to see you because we admire you very much and we enjoy seeing you.

K: I would love to see you.

L: We enjoyed the visit at the White House enormously. I gave your Secretary where to reach Gabby.

K: Yes, she has it, thank you very much.

L: She called me, and I said leave word at the Embassy, and I suppose her husband's office called to try to reach you. But she still can be reached at the places I gave her.

K: Excellent.

L: Well, have a successful journey. And we look forward to seeing you. I'll know when you come back, and I'll surely check you out when you come here in June.

K: Good, I'll be there around the 24th or 25th.

L: Well, we'll call you before then if you can give us a date, we'd love to have you.

K: That will be fine.

L: So we look forward to seeing you.

K: Right. Thank you.

L: Bye.

K: Bye.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E012858
DATE NARA Dkt 6/2/89

TelCon

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

6:45 pm, June 4, 1973

K: Hello.

D: Hello Henry. I just received from Gromyko a reply on this principle for this strategic thing. He said that Brezhnev accepts your last proposal, that we discuss it, that he prepared, Brezhnev, to Dinitz, point 99, remember about this, with understanding that from point 2nd until 8 it was xxx in our--be sure you accept. Point 1st we accept in your propose combines with 10th. He put it this way. Instead of 1974 he put it 1974-75. Otherwise is exactly what you propose.

K: I don't see -- '74-'75 is just too indefinite. If you don't sign it in 1974 we can't take you to court, but it's a clearer objective.

D: Because you see

K: Let me talk to the President and get back to you.

D: Yes, it's very--he put it this way that this will be up to when the President will arrive, '74 one thing, '75 then it will be '75. He didn't specifically refer, but I guess - because I mention in my telegram there your remarks on the things, because up to now they object to specific mentioning, and I said why are you objecting to because it here mentions the possibility for the President, It could be this one or this one, so PROBABLY that's why they said '74-75. But please check with President.

K: I'll check and let you know tomorrow.

D: Tomorrow. Otherwise everything is as it was you propose yesterday, or the day before yesterday.

K: Okay.

D: One by one, but '74-'75, you let me know tomorrow.

K: Right.

D: And today I send so you have the whole set, okay.

K: Okay. Good.

D: Okay.

K: Bye.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority: EAI-20575
By: M.N. Katsnelson, Date: 06/03/73

TelCon

Amb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger

6:45 pm, June 4, 1973

K: Hello.

D: Hello Henry. I just received from Gromyko a reply on this principle for this strategic thing. He said that Breshnev accepts your last proposal, that we discuss it, that he prepared, Breshnev, to Dinitz, point 99, remember about this, with understanding that from point 2nd until 8 it was still in our--be sure you accept. Point 1st we accept in your proposal combines with 10th. He put it this way. Instead of 1974 he put it 1974-75. Otherwise is exactly what you propose.

D: Because you see

D: Yes, it's very--he put it this way that this will be up to when the President will arrive, '74 one thing, '75 then it will be '75. He didn't specifically refer, but I guess-- because I mention in my telegram there your remarks on the things, because up to now they object to specific mentioning, and I said why are you objecting to because it here mentions the possibility for the President, It could be this one or this one, so PROBABLY that's why they said '74-75. But please check with President.

K: Okay.

K: Right.

K: Okay. Good.

D: Okay.

K: Bye.

DECLASSIFIED
Authority E012858
DALLARA DRE 6/2/73

TelCon
Amb. Debrynin/Mr. Kissinger

7:22, June 4, 1973

D: Hello.

K: Anatol.

D: To Scowcroft.

K: Yes.

K: You want it back.

K: Okay, we'll send it over to General Scowcroft.

D: Scowcroft.

K: Right.

K: Okay. Good.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E012858
Date 6/2/84

D: HAHN