TELCON

Joe Sisco/HAK 10:50

September 1, 1973/7:30 W.H. Office

S: I can see you at anytime on Monday. We're not doing a thing.

K: Look, I'm getting in about 6:00. I'm seeing David Rockefeller at 8:30 but I can make that a little later.

S: It doesn't make any difference, I'm available sooner or later because we're right here.

K: Well, why don't we aim for about 7:30-8:00 on Monday.

S: Alright. Where would it be Henry.

K: How about my White House Office.

S: And just have your office call if there is any adjustment in the schedule.

K: Let's assume 7:30 at my office.

S: About 7:30 at your White House Office.

K: And what I'd like you to do is think about you know how you would organize the place, who the good people are that have impressed you.

S: Alright. I'll definitely do that Henry.

K: Good.

S: Thank you. Congratulations again from both Jean and me.

K: Thank you. Bye bye.

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TELCORN

Henry Brandon/HAK

September 1, 1973/3:25 p.m.

K: Hello

B: How are you?

K: How are you

B: Very well, I'm in Plymouth and I'm on my way to London and you
said I should call you before I take off.

K: Have you heard from the Chinese?

B: No I haven't heard any final word yet. No. But I hope in London to
hear something.

K: Well let me know when you're going to be there.

B: You mean in China.

K: In China and I will also let them know that I think well enough of you
to get an interview with Toa.

B: Oh, that would be most helpful. When do you hope to be there?

K: It depends on my confirmation.

B: Oh really, so you'd rather be there in September than October.

K: No, I can't set a date. I'm more likely to be there in October.

B: We were hoping you know that possibly we might overlap or coincide.

K: That's right.

B: That would be marvelous. I mean Winston and us and you.

K: What makes you think Winston is going to be there.

B: Well, I don't know, I think Betty has some hopes. So you know, I presume
that they have given visas now in the last few days again.

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K: Well, I think it's going to work out.

B: Yeah. When approximately ... oh, you won't know until about the end of September will you.

K: That's right.

B: we'll be in London until the 19th and then we are going to stay with KXY Gabby in their castle in Holland.

K: Who's Gabby?

B: Wozaland(?)

K: Oh yes.

B: and then we are going for two days to Brussels and then to Paris and then hopefully on to China.

K: Well why don't you write me with your dates when you know.

B: Yes. When is David Bruce going to be back here.

K: He is back.

B: Oh, he's already back.

K: I think he'll be in Washington on Tuesday. I spend all day with him. In fact I've got to run off because my children haven't seen me all day.

B: He'll be in Washington on Tuesday.

K: Yes.

B: Alright.

K: Henry, when Nancy is down can we use your swimming pool or will that be covered.

B: Of course, well it will be covered but well first Muffy will still be in Washington until the 12th. She's only going to follow me after the children have gone to school. So that's one thing and the only problem is you could.

K: I'll call Muffy in Washington

- 3 -

B: Yeah. So there is no problem at all. The cover has to be over now during that because it such an early autumn and the leaves are falling down.

K: Henry I must run and have a very good trip.

B: Thanks. And all the best for your hearing.

K: I think they'll be manageable don't you?

B: Oh I think so I think there shouldn't be any question you know, you'll be asked a lot of questions but I don't think there should be any difficulty. I don't think they'll be anyone voting against you.

K: No, I don't think so.

K: EX If so, he hasn't declared himself yet. OK.

B: Bye

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TELCONE
George Bush/HAK

September 4, 1973/8:55 a.m.

K: Hello

B: Congratulations.

K: Thank you George. How are you?

B: Henry, I just got back from Maine and I'm so pleased about that. I think you're going to obviously I'm not alone from reading the newspapers etc. but that's certainly been beautifully received I must say.

K: Yes.

B: Listen. I hope...and I know you're busy as hell. We're going to have this National Committee Meeting.

K: I know. I wrote you a letter George. I don't think...I probably will not be confirmed by the 10th. I'm going up on the 7th.

B: Oh. That may be a problem. The only thing I thought is if they could get a little taste of the positive...you know the whole pitch. Your whole handling of it that we've got to go forward. That we're doing this and that. These political leaders from across this country could go away with a statesman like feeling that Jesus, here's a hell of a lot going on

K: How often do you meet.

B: Well, we don't meet again until next probably. I think it's twice a year. So it would probably next Spring or something but if...

K: I just don't see how I can meet with the National Committee until I'm confirmed.

B: Yeah. Well, I think there is a point in that.

K: I'll probably be testifying still on the 10th. I don't know whether they'll let me get off in one day.

B: One day. Oh, I'll bet you will. When do you go up there? The 8th?

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K: On Friday. But then I still have to go through Congress.

B: Yeah, that's right. Well, let's stay loose on it but if you were it would be a good. I just think that in that whole area without being partisan, I mean it could just give the people the view ... what I want... the way to have it end is the way people leave this town, these leaders, and go back to their communities and say look, there's a hell of a lot going on

K: How long are they going to be here.

B: Just one day. Say, I understand that and I frankly.

K: That's my only concern George.

B: Alight. Let's watch how it goes and if by some reason they shot through in a hurry or if it appears that it'll be postponed or something and you could make a brief appearance as the present National Security Advisor or something.

K: Well, again. You know if it weren't for the nomination I could come as advisor but I..that complicates it a bit.

B: Yeah.

K: But why don't you check with me at the end of the week.

B: I'll do it. Good luck. I'm sure that will all go. There are no problems on the horizon with that damn.

K: Not that I can see except the ego of the Senators who. If its live or national television we're in for a long session.

B: Are they going to do that?

K: I can't imagine it.

B: Oh Jesus. I hope not. You've been on vacation?

K: Well, I was up in San Clemente and that always is restful.

B: Henry, congratulations and I'm of course any help we can...I can't conceive what it would be but if there is ever any thing I can do I would appreciate your call.

K: I'd like to stay in touch with you.

B: Alright. Thank you.

TELCOM
Joseph Kraft/Kissinger

September 4, 1973

10:00 a. m.

KR: Hello, Henry.

K: Hello, Joe. I am sorry to keep you on the phone. I just wanted you to know how touched I was about your letter. I know you have strong feelings and appreciated it very much.

KR: Why, thank you. If was very thoughtful of you to call. We're on our way back to Washington.

K: Well, I'll be occupied in the next few weeks with personal, etc. matters but after that, please feel free to call.

KR: The Times has asked me to do an article about your new role.

K: Sure. I think it would be very appropriate.

Kr: In any case, thank you for calling.

K: You're welcome. I will look forward to seeing you.

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Telcon

Bryce Harlow/HAK

Tues. September 4, 1973; 10:04 a.m.

H: Hello. Welcome back.

K: Hello, Bryce. I had a call yesterday from Jack Javits.

H: Yes, I talked with him.

K: Ok. I switched him to you.

H: Yeah, and it is D.C. (?) straightaway. And I have a note here to call Buckley. I'll straighten that out and I'll let you know how that goes. There no problem I don't think. I warned him, you know, in the conversation, that we had a problem on the voting requirements. And so he is aware of that.

K: And Jack?

H: Jack's all right. As a matter of fact he was really concerned by the
Buckley ploy.

K: Well, I told him about that.

H: Yes, he told me that you had.

K: Could you make sure -- on the 10th, Jack has a claim on the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee time.

H: Yes, I told him about that, and he said don't worry about that, I'll
take care of it.

K: Okay. Good. Now what is your estimate on how long this thing will take?

H: I think it will go over to Monday.

K: You do?

H: Yes. Now there's one thing that's hanging loose, Henry. I know you must be aware of, that I thought of after we had left Fulbright. Fulbright is leaving on the 11th and is going to be gone then until the 19th, I think he said. And my question is that your nomination just sits idly before the Senate all that time, until the Chairman returns. Now, I get the impression - I raised this with Pack that fellow Murphy - and he got a little bit up-tight over my pressing like that. And I said skip it Carl, I've been there. I had the same job you have and I know what your responsibilities are. We're not trying to force Henry quickly

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through the United States Senate. There are certain national require-
ments that -- not the nomination -- national requirements that the
Chairman knows about, and I said, we'll talk about it later on. But you
see, that's still a thing that's uncovered. Now you're going to see two
Senators today, this afternoon, but I would reserve that q uestion for
George Aiken on Wednesday morning.

K: OK. Are you coming with me to these Senators?

H: I was planning not to, unless you have some feeling about it.

K: Well, I'd be happy if...

H: I don't think it's necessary at all. The discussion is with you, and all you need is someone to guide you to the office. They'll want to be talking with you.

K: Now, could you make sure of one thing though, Bryce. I am sure Korokolos - or whatever his goddamned name is - has important responsibilities on the Hill, one of which is to suck up to the Senators.

H: That's correct.

K: And he, no doubt is going to run me silly. When I say that I am willing
to spend a certain amount of time, that doesn't mean I'm eager to do it.

H: He knows that, but let me go back to him again. On the other hand, he is trying to schedule. Finally he was able to get Percy and Case. That's two of your guys. He hasn't gotten the other two yet. That you missed on the phone. Of course, you've since talked to Pell.

K: But he's got me scheduled with guys that I have already talked to.

H: Yeah, but, Henry, I think you mis-read Tom a bit. Tom is good. He's not poor.

K: No, Tom is good, but he's got to be as self-serving in his job as I am in mine. If I could trot around the President to various embassies here it would help me a lot. If the President gave me three hours for three afternoons a week, I'd sure as hell fill them.

H: Yeah, well I think's he's not trying to do that at all. I think he has only one objective and that's to make this go as smoothly as possible.

K: What if you asked him.

H: Whether it's going smoothly?

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-3-

K: Yes.

H: Well, I think they're going to expect you and I think you're probably going to find it not extremely uncomfortable but an opportunity to show your worth, really.

K: Well, if it's on substance, I'm all right. If they're gonna spend all their time on wire-tapping we'll have a little problem.

H: Well, they'll spend some time on that, of course. Are you satisfied with your proposed response on that?

K: Well, I haven't gotten Buzhardt to produce it yet. One problem is that the May 22nd statement is not truthful, and it is not on the face of it truthful because if Safire, Sears and McLean were on it, it is obvious that I could not have coordinated the list. I didn't even know these guys. Sears and McLean, I didn't even know their names. If Safire was on it I could have just as well put 50 other speechwriters on it. You see what I mean?

H: Of course.

K: I had no particular reason to put Safire, nor did I have any reason to put the four newsmen on it.

H: Yeah.

K: So that takes care of 7 out of 17. I will bet my bottom dollar that Pederson, Sullivan and Pursley were not put on while I was receiving reports, which was until December '69.

H: Yeah. You mean afterwards, huh?

K: That was afterwards -- I don't know, I'd have to check. So that gets us down to 7. Of those 7, two at least had unfavorable security information in their files. And one was discovered by the investigation that I knew about, so we are now down to four. You see what I mean?

H: Yeah.

K: And then if you get down to four and analyze that one of them was Lake, my personal assistant, who was the counterpart of McLean - so you're down to three.

H: Well, you kept saying to me that you shouldn't have put them on anyway.

K: That's right. You know I could make a ______ case for myself but ______ the President's statement. If I went through this list

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name by name I could prove that at most I could supply the names of
three people where my ____ it made a difference. You see what
I mean?

H: Yes.

K: You see, Lake and Moose were the counterpart of McLean and Sears and Pursley and Pederson. You know they obviously ____ of all the key ____ people. When you analyze it thoughtfully. The counterpart of Pursley and Pederson in my office was Lake and Moose.

H: Well, your story on this, I have found, is extremely...

K: You know, I could make it even more compelling, but I can't do that. I could probably prove that of those 17 my contribution was minimal.

H: Well, what's the status of your conversation with Fred Buzhardt?

K: I haven't got his statement yet.

H: Is he preparing it for you?

K: Yes.

H: Well, I suggest that some little salt needs to be poured on the tail of that, or a little acid probably, because now you are going tomorrow, you see, you'll be seeing Stu Symington at 11:00 tomorrow, and you're not going to have any trouble obviously with Bacon or Griffen or McGee. Now then, Stu is up big on that one. Conceivably, but in this case you know how he is, ____ understand to start with. Bob Byrd can be cantankerous but ...

K: No, he's an admirer.

H: I know that, but he's very tight-minded, a very persistent bulldogish little guy as you know. But for tomorrow's 11:00 meeting with Stu Symington I should think that you need to have it pretty well tied down as to what you can say without getting crosswise ____

K: Because, you know, the real truth of this matter isn't exactly what I give, the truth is that they must have checked on the key guys they didn't consider their own. And then the only wrinkle in my case is that they made me supply a few of the names.

H: But you gave them the names of those with access.

K: That's right.

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H: You did not tell them to accept them, did you?

K: That is right.

H: That was your participation.

K: Of course I have no way of knowing what Haldeman may have told the FBI.

H: You were asked to furnish those ...

K: Now look, on the face of it, after December '69, this thing went on through '70. I never even saw the report. So I couldn't have had any interest in this, for myself.

H: Well, what they'll want to quiz you on is the *check-off* position you had.

K: The ________ position was that I supplied the names of the people with access to information on my staff.

H: Realizing that they might well be tapped.

K: That is right. The tapping was now an accepted investigative method.

H: So that you really had anticipation that they would be.

K: That they could be. Not all of those I supplied were tapped, it turned out.

H: Yes. That some or all of them might be.

K: That's right.

H: And the reason you agreed to this was that there were absolutely impossible and intolerable leaks taking place that had to be located.

K: That's right. And that I was told that this had been done in previous administrations. That this was not a new procedure.

H: But you found even that insupportable, and ...

K: Well, I won't put it that way.

H: Not properly requiring your time, and you just stopped having anything to do with it.

K: That's right.

H: From December.

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K: And from that time on no internal security matters ever came to my office. And we kept an informal liaison relationship between Haig and Sullivan whereby Sullivan would inform Haig if there was some leak to tap. And we would inform Sullivan is there was an leak. But the fruit of the normal stuff went to Haldeman.

H: Well, I think that...

K: And none of the other internal security matters from December '69 on were ever discussed with or reported to or conducted through my office.

H: I think that one thing that you might wish to do is ______ it tomorrow. That's a pretty heady bunch of boys you got tomorrow morning. You got ______ Griffin, Stu Symington and McGee, and that is a significant list.

K: ______ totally enthusiastic.

H: Oh, I understand that. But these are people who ... these are prime movers in this arena.

K: Now may I tell them what my needs are from a national point of view?

H: Well, it seems to me like you could, particularly with Stu Symington. It seems to me like you could level with Stu Symington and say, Stu, you've been in the Executive Branch in very highly sensitive areas and you know the problem. You, yourself, served as a member of the NSC when you were Secretary of the Air Force. For me to be on the stand publicly talking about individuals is desperately poor for the individuals. I just rebel at this, I just.. it is a deplorable thing to do. In fact, there is an insistence on that in any fashion I am counting on your supporting it. Confirmation of this will have to be done if it is to be done at all, in executive session.

K: But I can't tell them what I told you, can I?

H: Well, of course the FBI records are ______
The fact that there is something adverse in the record for somebody is...

K: No, that isn't what I mean, I mean what the real pattern of these things is. They'll use it against the President.

H: How could he use it against the President?

K: Now the real pattern of having the executive assistants of those members of the White House staff who were not on the inside.

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By A6 NARA Date 6/9/09

H: You can't speak to them. You don't know anything about it. Is that right?

K: No, but I mean I just know in expo facto from ...

H: The only thing you know about it are the national security items.

K: Yes, but I can say that I knew nothing about the press, I knew nothing about these other guys.

H: Then they'll say, well, we'd like to have you tell the committee about it. You'll say, I don't know anything about it, it's not in my field. And they'll say, well we must have something for the record on that. And you say, well, I'll be glad, Mr. Chairman, to try to obtain something that can be submitted by an appropriate person on that because none of that is in my arena. I don't know anything about it. I'll see if I can get someone who does to buy something for you. No, but I'm afraid that they are going to try, particularly because of Moose who is so close to Stu. Do you have that tightly in hand?

K: Yes.

H: And he might want to talk there privately with you, too. Is it your understanding that Tom expects to escort you.

K: I don't know.

H: I'll call Tom and talk this out with him.

K: O.K.

H: Alright. Good.

K: Thank you.

H: Right.

TELCONE

Buzhardt/HAK

September 4, 1973/8:10

K: Fred. If I could have your revision of the statement tomorrow morning,

B: Alright sir.

K: It would be a great help to me.

B: I can do that.

K: And if you could put into that statement what we discussed before, that is that I knew ah, that between May 1969 and December 1969 or May 1970 whichever your records show, I did not know of all of the taps and after May 1970 I did not see the records of any of the taps.

B: Right.

K: Isn't that essentially correct.

B: You got no report. That's right.

K: Before 1970 I got some reports. After 1970 I got no reports. Isn't that correct.

B: That is correct. I'll put it in. Do you want this in first person Henry

K: What I would like to do if you agree Fred, is to say that I do not have any independent records here. That I asked the White House Counsel that has had access to the records to draft a statement which is an accurate description which I have confirmed to the best of my ability and lets read the God damn statement.

B: I think that's good.

K: And then I have got something to stand on.

B: Right. OK. I'll do it.

K: Thank you Fred.

B: OK.

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TELCOM

Bryce Harlow/Kissinger

10:23 a.m. - 9/4/73

K: Hello.

H: Henry.

Mansfield, Symington

K: Bryce, I got some letters here from Fulbright/and Aiken.

H: Is it favorable?

K: Very.

H: I think that's great. I would like to see them.

K: Good.

H: OK.

[Follow-up: Copies were made of the letters and taken to Mr. Harlow-igd]

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TELCOM

Cy Sulzberger/HAK

September 4, 1973/10:55 a.m.

K: Hello.

S: Hello, Henry.

K: Cy, how are you.

S: How are you. Congratulations by the way. Henry, I'm sorry to bother you. I've just come to New York from the wilds of Colorado and I find out that our friends have postponed my visa.

K: For how long.

S: Until next year which is pretty indefinite and I have a letter from David in which he says that he thinks that possibly the troubles I've been having there are due as it were to my reorganization -- the organization I work for. You know what I mean.

K: Let me... I'll take it up.

S: I'd be so grateful because I've got all my plans to go with Marina as of September 20th and the French Ambassador is spending an extra week in Peking to put us up before he takes his leave and then we're going to move to David.

K: Let me see what I can do.

S: I'd be enormously grateful and before going I'd like to come down and see you if you had a moment.

K: That I'm not so sure about but let me raise it anyway with the Chinese.

S: I'm very grateful. Can I tell you secretary where I can be reached.

(Bonnie comes on)

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TELCOM

Gov. Rockefeller/HAK

September 4, 1973/12:05 p.m.

K: Hello.

R: Henry.

K: Nelson, how are you?

R: Just great. Can I tell you a rumor that it looks pretty much like its
going to be Rogers if Agnew goes out.

K: Well, I've heard that and I don't believe it.

R: You don't believe it.

K: It's conceivable you know but I... I've heard it I don't believe it.
Well actually, it could be good for you.

R: Yeah, that's right. The Connelly one is the worst.

K: That's right.

R: Do you think there is any reason to have...

K: You know Rogers isn't going to be any threat.

R: No, that's right. No, no, no question about that. But on the other
hand its no real asset in terms of the domestic or international
position for the U.S. government.

K: That's true.

R: I mean you know as an alternative to the present ...

K: No, its no improvement but it...

R: Exactly. Do you think there is any reason...

K: But I don't believe it.

R: You don't... for Kim to come down and talk to a few people. Any objection to it or any...

- 2 -

K: What people.

R: Like Scott, Jerry Ford...

K: On your study.

R: No, on this thing we're talking about.

K: I think its a mistake.

R: So do I, a mistake, my feeling. Barry said he had a lovely evening with you and he said he was very touched.

K: Verry good and I began exploring that project which you and I discussed

R: Did he take a strong position/

K: He said its unlikely but not excluded.

R: Marvelous. Marvelous Henry, I didn't dare explore it with him because he didn't say so I wouldn't say.

Changed tapes

K: If we get to that point I'd like to raise it with you.

R: Good, on the cultural guy I had this thought. Tom Holding at the metropolitan Museum. There is a strong faction that feel its time that Tom because he is controversial.

K: Would he consider it.

R: I think he might. He's a very good promoter and a very attractive guy. But he also is...he's a hell of a guy for protocol.

K: Oh.

R: Cultural or that.

K: Do you know Rippley of the Smithsonean. What do you think of him for cultural.

R: I think it would be excellent.

K: Who would be better.

R: Well Tom Holding is more of a personality. He'd be a real personality in his own right.

K: Yeah. That's an interesting idea.

R: But I think that's a real... he's a good speaker and he's an attractive guy and he's dynamic and ...

K: Holding.

R: Yeah.

K: He might be wasted in protocol.

R: Yes but I think he'd be good in the cultural.

K: Excellent idea.

R: Well, I throw that one out...

K: Is he a Republican.

R: Yes, he came in with Lindsey when Lindsey was a Republican.

K: I don't know how my colleagues feel and will receive this.

R: Well he left. He couldn't take it. I think they've pretty well...

K: No holding I like that idea.

R: I think he would be a real asset and it's just possible see that he might be...

K: He'd be a superb chief of protocol.

R: Oh he would. He'd be tremendous at that. That he would be fantastic.

K: Yeah. Which should I try to do you think.

R: I'd try in the cultural. And then having talked to him. You remember you helped him very importantly on that Chinese thing. You ask him to come down and see you

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K: After I'm confirmed I'll do it.

R: (laughter) OK.
P

K: I'm sending all my time reading wiretap files to find out just what the hell went on.

R: (laughter)

K: As far as I can figure out I was the chief target.

R: Yeah, of course I'm waiting to hear them somebody about the fact that you were wiretapped.

K: We've developed that.

R: You have.

K: Yeah

R: So they were

K: Yeah but they had a different system for me. They had the wires go straight into Haldeman's office. That's why we didn't go up on any tap.

R: You mean the actual phone so he could pick it up and listen. So he could listen in on yours anytime he wanted.

K: Or his assistnet.

R: Rather than a recorded. You going to bring that but.

K: No, it gives me some moral insurance.

R: I must say its unbelievable.

K: Ridiculous.

R: But I want to tell you more intimate than we realized. Oh brother Henry what a life. I figured they had to be doing something.