KLAMATH INDIAN CORPORATION

TUESDAY, APRIL 19, 1932

UNITED STATES SENATE,
COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 2.30 o'clock p. m. in the rooms of the Committee on Printing, Senator Lynn J. Frazier (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Frazier (chairman), Steiwer, and Bulow.

Also present: Senator McNary; Hon. C. S. Rhoads, Commissioner of Indian Affairs; Hon. J. Henry Scattergood, Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs; Mr. A. A. Grorud, special assistant; Mr. William O. Skeels, assistant clerk; and F. S. Milberg, official reporter.

Senator FRAZIER. This hearing is called to consider Senate bill No. 3588, introduced by Senator McNary for the incorporation of the Indian Corporation, and for other purposes. This is practically the same bill that was introduced at a previous session, which bill had some consideration at that time. In order that the matter may be clear, we will place a copy of the bill in the record. The bill, together with the secretary's report, is as follows:

[S. 3588, Seventy-second Congress, first session]

A BILL For the Incorporation of the Klamath Indian Corporation, and for other purposes

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the Klamath and Modoc Tribes and Yahooskin Band of Snake Indians, hereafter referred to as the Klamath Tribe, be, and are hereby, constituted a corporation under the name "Klamath Indian Corporation," having the powers of a body politic and corporate, as hereinafter provided.

SEC. 2. That a certificate of incorporation shall be issued by the judge of the United States Federal court of the district of Oregon upon receipt of petition, duly verified, signed by a majority of the adult members on the tribal roll of the Klamath Tribe; and upon the issuance of such certificate of incorporation, all members on the tribal roll shall become shareholders, each in equal amount, and there shall be vested in each such enrolled member who has attained the age of twenty-one years one vote.

SEC. 3. All property, real and personal, held in trust for the Klamath Tribe by the United States shall be transferred by the Secretary of the Interior to the Klamath Indian Corporation under a trust patent to be made a fee patent in the discretion of the Congress of the United States not less than fifty years. All claims against the United States Government heretofore asserted or that may be hereafter asserted by the Klamath Tribe shall be transferred to the corporation. All contracts of the United States in its capacity as guardian of the Klamath Tribe with the United States as a sovereign or with any private party for the benefit of the Klamath Tribe, including tribal reimbursable debts to the United States, shall become obligations for the corporation.

COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

LYNN J. FRAZIER, North Dakota, Chairman

THOMAS D. SCHALL, Minnesota.

ROBERT M. LA FOLLETTE, Jr., Wisconsin.

FREDERICK STEIWER, Oregon.

FREDERIC C. WALCOTT, Connecticut.

PETER NORBECK, South Dakota.

JOHN THOMAS, Idaho.

HENRY F. ASHURST, Arizona.

JOHN B. KENDRICK, Wyoming.

BURTON K. WHEELER, Montana.

SAM G. BRATTON, New Mexico.

ELMER THOMAS, Oklahoma.

W. J. BULOW, South Dakota.

NELSON A. MASON, Clerk

W. O. SKEELS, Assistant Clerk

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SEC. 4. The powers and functions of the corporation shall be to take, hold, control, administer, manage, operate, and dispose of all the collective and other corporate assets and property of every description, both real and personal, except that no authority is granted to sell any of the real estate included within the limits of the Klamath Indian Reservation, Oregon, to other than members of the Klamath Indian Tribe.

SEC. 5. The Klamath Indian Corporation shall have a duration of fifty years and have authority to (1) sue or be sued; (2) contract or be contracted with; (3) to have and use a seal; (4) to purchase, possess, and dispose of property, both real and personal; (5) to appoint officers; (6) to own stock in private corporations.

SEC. 6. The Klamath Indian Corporation shall be governed by a board of directors of nine members, to be elected by the adult shareholders, who shall each have one vote. There shall be an annual meeting of the stockholders of the corporation and such other meetings as may be called from time to time by any three of the directors. The board of directors shall be elected at the first annual meeting, three of which members shall serve for the term of one year, three for the term of two years, and three for the term of three years. After the first annual meeting, one-third of the members of the board shall be elected at each succeeding annual meeting. In case of death, resignation, or removal of any of the directors, the vacancy shall be filled by the remaining members of the board. The board of directors shall choose a president, a vice president, secretary, and treasurer. The secretary and treasurer shall not be required to be chosen from the membership of the board of the Klamath Indian Corporation. All officers and employees shall receive salaries in amounts to be fixed by the board.

SEC. 7. By mutual agreement between the Klamath Indian Corporation and any allotted member of the Klamath Tribe, the corporation shall have power to acquire the allotted land or any other trust individual property of any Klamath Indian, but not more than the appraised value of the property shall be paid as a consideration for the transfer. The trust period of any member of the Klamath Tribe on his trust allotment may be reduced or extended by agreement in writing between the board and the allottee, and made of record in the office of the corporation, the fee patent to be issued by the Secretary of the Interior on recommendation of the board based on the aforementioned written agreement.

SEC. 8. For the duration of the trust period adult members of the corporation shall be empowered to sell their shares of stock to the corporation, but no sale of stock shall be made from one Indian to another or to any white person. The shares of stock belonging to minors, inebriates, incompetents by reason of age or other infirmities, insane, and persons imprisoned after conviction for a felony, shall be under the complete legal control of the board of supervision and shall not be subject to hypothecation or any other form of alienation while the disability exists, except that such shares, or the net profits arising therefrom, may be disposed of, in whole or in part, by the board of supervision to afford means of education or for the benefit of the health of the person while under disability.

SEC. 9. Immediately upon the formation of the Klamath Indian Corporation there shall be formed a board of supervision consisting of three members, one member to be named by the President of the United States, who shall be chairman of the board of supervision, one member by the stockholders of the corporation, and one member by the Federal District Court. The elected members may be persons not affiliated with the Klamath Tribe of Indians. The term of office of the members of the board of supervision shall be two years. The salary of the chairman of the board of supervision shall be fixed by the President of the United States at not to exceed $5,000 per annum, and the salaries of the other members shall be fixed by the board of directors of the corporation not to exceed $5,000 per annum each. This board shall approve any obligations sought to be incurred by the corporation in excess of $1,000. All transactions affecting the purchase by the corporation of the allotments or the share of stock of minor Klamath Indians shall be subject to approval of the board. It shall assist the corporation in all business matters upon request of the board of directors and it shall be the duty of the board of supervision to require an adequate system of accounting, make an annual audit of the books, and render to be filed in the office of the corporation a copy of the audit. The salaries and all expenses of the board of supervision shall be paid by the Klamath Indian

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Corporation from its funds. The officers of the corporation shall be amenable to the Federal laws and triable in the Federal court for any acts of misfeasance or malfeasance.

SEC. 10. It is the intention of this act that the various transactions and operations of the Klamath Indian Corporation shall be as soon as practicable placed under the complete authority of the board of directors of the corporation, and the board of supervision shall serve as an advisory rather than an executive agency.

SEC. 11. The treasurer and secretary of the Klamath Indian Corporation and the members of the board of directors and board of supervision shall each be required to give surety bonds in an amount to be specified by the United States District Court for the District of Oregon, and such bonds shall be approved by it and filed with the clerk of said court.

SEC. 12. The Klamath Indian Corporation is authorized, subject to the approval of the board of supervision, to enter into contracts with the State of Oregon or subdivisions thereof, for the performances of services in behalf of the corporation or its stockholders, and the funds of the corporation shall be subject to payment in fulfillment of such contracts. Individual stockholders may, with the consent of the board of directors, subject to the approval of the board of supervision, enter into contracts with any appropriate public or private agency for the purpose of securing educational, medical, or other service, and for funds of such individual stockholders, subject to the restrictions specified herein, may be used to pay for such services.

SEC. 13. The directors of the corporation shall declare, and pay to the stockholders twice a year, the net profits of the corporation: Provided, That the directors, subject to the approval of the board of supervision, shall be empowered to set aside, out of the net income of the corporation, funds for working capital or for corporate investment: And provided further, That it shall withhold disbursement of any share of profits to minors unless it is to be used to afford means of education or benefit of the minor's health.

SEC. 14. None of the property of the corporation shall be subject to taxation until otherwise provided by Congress.

SEC. 15. The corporation is authorized to make by-laws and adopt rules and regulations to carry out the purpose of this act.

SEC. 16. When the corporation has been organized and the board of supervision appointed, as hereinbefore provided, all jurisdiction of the Bureau of Indian Affairs over the Klamath Reservation will be terminated. Any powers of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, and the Secretary of the Interior, except the approval of the final roll which are not by the preceding terms of this act transferred to the Klamath Indian Corporation, shall be transferred to the board of supervision hereinbefore provided.

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR,

Washington, March 31, 1932.

HON. LYNN J. FRAZIER,

Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs,

United States Senate.

MY DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: In response to your request for an opinion on S. 3588, for the incorporation of the Klamath Indian Corporation, and other purposes, I am inclosing two memoranda, one prepared by myself, and the other by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs.

I am much interested in the purposes of this bill. I would be very glad if some plan could be worked out that would permit at least a start toward incorporation for the Klamath Indians. The commissioner points out certain difficulties in the legislation, and I have pointed out in my memorandum what I consider to be the only basis upon which real success can be achieved.

I regret that there are features of S. 3588 and also certain factors in the whole situation that compel me to join with Commissioner Rhoads in the recommendation that action on the bill be deferred for the time being. Nevertheless, I would be glad to join in on any studies that may provide clarification as to the best solution of these problems of the Klamath Indians, as well as those of other tribes.

Sincerely yours,

RAY LYMAN WILBUR, Secretary.

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Memorandum on the incorporation of Indian properties, particularly the Klamath Reservation in Oregon.

In the long run, no satisfactory plan can be worked out that does not within a period of years bring the Indian into the control of his property on the basis of the ordinary citizen, adding to his present "rights" of citizenship the "responsibilities" of citizenship and of ownership of property, including the payment of taxes. The permanence of any plan which relieves the Indian's land of taxation is a definite barrier to his adjustment and amalgamation into the general public. Sound policy requires that the activities of the Indian Office should be directed to freeing the Indian of his restrictions as rapidly as he can be educated and trained adequately to care for himself and his property.

To give the Indians of the Klamath Reservation control of their own affairs and their own property, would seem to me to require the following steps:

(1) Set up a self-governing community with public ownership of the present property belonging to the Government and used for general service, such as the schools, etc., the organization of this community to be along the usual lines customary in this country, with all property owners paying taxes to the municipality and to the State. Naturally, there would have to be a period of training and tutelage for bringing this about.

(2) After titles have been granted to all possessing private allotments, the remainder of the property of the tribe to be incorporated so that its management may follow along the usual lines; this corporation to be run by a board of directors in accordance with the laws of the State for the control of corporation affairs. Certain assistance would have to be given over a period of years, but full responsibility should pass to those in actual charge of the property.

(3) The stock for this corporation should be distributed on the basis of the percentage of ownership, as determined by head rights, etc.

(4) No sale of stock for at least 10 years should be made without the consent of the Secretary of the Interior.

(5) The ordinary tax procedures of the State should apply to all property, including the corporate property, in order that the Indians may secure the normal services of State and county governments. Taxes on the corporate property are to be paid by the corporation as is customary.

Personally, I am most sympathetic with every conservative and constructive effort which will place the Indian in charge of himself, of his children, and of his property. No possible plan for the future can be successful that differentiates off the Indian from the other elements of the population. The Government has accepted a certain responsibility like that of a parent to a child, or the trustee to a guardian, but this should not be maintained permanently. It should result in freeing the child or the ward, with adequate experience and maturity, from restrictions. It seems to me that the Klamath Reservation is one of the best places to test out the incorporation plan for Indian property. If satisfactory procedures can be worked out there they will be imitated elsewhere.

RAY LYMAN WILBUR.

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR,
OFFICE OF INDIAN AFFAIRS,
Washington, March 31, 1932.

This will refer to the request of the Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate, for report on S. 3588, which would authorize the creation of the Klamath Indian Corporation.

The corporation idea is one of several suggestions being made for the solution of the general question of the management of Indian tribal matters and the disposition of tribal assets, relative to which we have given a great deal of study. It is a plan which has apparent merit and which we have approached with open minds but concerning which from a practical standpoint many difficulties arise. Frankly, we do not yet see a solution to these difficulties. In reaching a solution for the Klamath tribe, we must keep in mind that other groups in other States are reaching the same degree of competency and similar measures will have to be provided for them. The probability is that whatever measure is passed by Congress for the Klamaths will be followed closely in the other cases. It is desirable, therefore, that we seek the solution which

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might be a worthy precedent to follow in these other cases as they arise. We have a sympathetic understanding of the desire of the Klamath and other Indians to control their own affairs. We hope some way may be found to confer this control by gradual steps in order to lessen the dangers that may arise due to the fact that the boards of directors appointed will necessarily be composed of men who have had limited opportunity to acquire experience in the particular duties and obligations which they will be called upon to fulfill.

Some of the questions which our study of the present bill raises are:

Taxes: If the title to these tribal assets is lodged in any agency rather than the Federal Government, can such property be made exempt from taxation under State law?

Law and order: Would the corporation assume the responsibilities of a municipality relative to law and order, education, health and poor relief? If no taxes are paid on tribal property, will State and county governments be willing to assume jurisdiction?

Authority of the corporation: Are the powers, duties, and authorities of the corporation defined clearly enough in sections 4 and 5? May it borrow money? May it pledge its assets as securities? What will happen if the operations of the corporation should incur a loss? Can safeguards be provided relative to buying stocks in private corporations outside of the reservation? Can privately-owned lands be condemned when needed for schools, roads, and other community purposes?

Overhead expenses: How may increased overhead costs and administrative costs be prevented in consideration of the fact that a board of directors and a board of supervisors are provided, both of which will require salaries for the members and for their staffs?

Future Government responsibility: If through unforeseen circumstances the tribal assets become dissipated, will the Federal Government wardship over the members of the tribe continue and will the Government become obligated to provide gratuities for their subsistence?

Existing contracts: Can existing contracts with private individuals or corporations be transferred without the consent of the contractors?

It seems to us that these and other questions should be provided for in the bill in its final form.

Several concrete suggestions have been made offering ideas of those who have given a great deal of thought to the problem. However, we have not as yet evolved a plan that altogether meets the situation. The Indians are reaching a point in their development when they should have a considerable hand in the management of their affairs. On the other hand, as long as the Secretary of the Interior is charged with the responsibility, it is felt that he should exercise a check on the recommendations and acts of the tribal representatives who are given definite tasks to perform. The Indian Office has a modified plan not yet fully developed which we would like to submit to the committee of Congress for criticism and suggestions. It is realized that Congress is vitally interested in this matter and that the committees of the Senate especially have given much time and thought to tribal matters and would possibly desire to collaborate with the bureau in this matter.

For two or three years past the corporation idea has been studied with more or less concentration and, as above stated, it has fascinated us with its possibilities looking toward a relinquishment of the trust which the Government exercises over the Indians, but we do not believe that the incorporation of all Klamath affairs, at least in the form this bill presents it, is the solution.

It is, therefore, recommended that action on this bill be deferred.

C. J. RHOADS, Commissioner.

Senator FRAZIER. Senator McNary, will you make a statement in regard to the bill?

STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES L. MCNARY, SENATOR FROM OREGON

Senator MCNARY. Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee, you were very kind to give me this opportunity, and I shall be brief. On the 30th day of October, 1929, I introduced an identical bill, Senate No. 2442, for the incorporation of the Klamath Tribe of

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Indians, and for other purposes. Slight consideration was given to the bill at that time. It was referred to the commissioner, Mr. Rhoads, and in a memorandum to me dated December 17, 1929, he opposed consideration of the bill by Congress. On the calendar day of February 9 of the present year I reintroduced the bill, which was referred to the commissioner, and I think an unfavorable report has been filed with your committee, Senator Frazier, copy of which I thought I had in my files with me, but I do not find it.

Mr. Wade Crawford, a very active and intelligent representative of the Klamath Indians is present and it was at his suggestion that I introduced the bill originally. It is a very simple measure. It proposes to incorporate the Klamath Indians into a corporation similar to those other corporations which are recognized under the statutes of the various States. The property, both real and personal, shall be conveyed to the Indians; that is, the property now held in trust by the Government. It provides for powers similar to those found in the ordinary public and private corporations. It provides for a board of directors to consist of nine to be selected by the stockholders of the corporation, which are the Indians.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, may I refer particularly to section 9 of the bill? There is a provision which I think makes the bill workable, safe, and a sound piece of legislation. It provides for a supervisory board consisting of three members which must approve of the acts and conduct of the corporation, speaking through its directors. I can see that this bill is novel and unique in that it is an attempted disposal of Indian property and the delegation of rights to Indians not now enjoyed by them. I do not think you could grant their independence, if we may call it that, under a bill better calculated to protect the Indians than this one.

Whether it is the purpose and desire of the Congress to enter upon this line of legislation is entirely for this committee and for Congress to determine. I do not know of any race of Indians more capable of autonomy than the Klamath Indians, and if a corporation could be formed with these safeguards to the members of that tribe, which are about 1,280 in number—nearly 1,300—I believe it would be beneficial. I know the chairman has visited the reservation several times, and you are familiar with the wealth of timber and the other resources of that community. I should like to see this undertaken. I think it could be managed safely for the Indians. The control would be ample to guarantee them against any losses that might be practiced upon them by reason of the section to which I have made reference. The bill did meet with the approval of the majority of the Indians at one time. Mr. Crawford is here and ably represents them. I think there is another representative, Mr. Walker, who is also here. I am not sure how he feels about this proposed legislation, but I am sure the committee will give this bill very serious study, as it contemplates a progressive step in the administration of Indian properties by the Indians themselves. We are all familiar with the situation, and I think, Mr. Chairman, with that brief statement I will let Mr. Crawford go into more detail. You are not unfamiliar with the tribe and their resources, and the legislation that has been suggested. I thank you for this opportunity.

Senator FRAZIER. We thank you, Senator.

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## STATEMENT OF WADE CRAWFORD

Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I want to first offer the resolution which has been passed by the tribe supporting this bill. As you know, for several years the Klamath Indians have been trying to get some sort of legislation to adjust the condition that now exists. We have been down here for several years trying to get some sort of legislation. Mr. Walker and I have been elected by the tribe as delegates to come down and try to get some sort of relief. The Indians have passed a resolution in their general council supporting this bill, and also the Klamath Indian business committee have passed a resolution authorizing and instructing the delegation to support the bill. This bill has been discussed numerous times before the Indians and by the Indians in their general councils, as well as by their business committee. It has been gone over section by section time after time and all are familiar with the bill. I will, therefore, offer at this time the resolution of our council and of our business committee for the record.

Senator FRAZIER. Very well. It will be made a part of the record.

(The documents referred to above are as follows:)

### RESOLUTION OF GENERAL COUNCIL, OCTOBER 30, 1931

It was moved and seconded that the business committee be requested to instruct the delegates to support the incorporation plan for the Indians of the Klamath Reservation as a final solution of the reservation problems. Motion carried.

### RESOLUTIONS FOR THE GUIDANCE OF THE KLAMATH DELEGATION, DRAWN BY THE KLAMATH BUSINESS COMMITTEE NOVEMBER 6, 1931

#### Resolution No. 1: Be it

Resolved, That a final settlement of the tribal property of the Klamath Indian Reservation in the State of Oregon be made; that it is the desire of the Indians of the said reservation to enter into and negotiate such an agreement as will suit the best interests and welfare and promote the progress of the Indians and the conservation of the property of the Klamath Indian Reservation. That the representatives duly elected and qualified to represent the Indians of the Klamath Reservation in the State of Oregon, by virtue of an election held on the 12th day of October, 1931, at the Williamson River church and Beatty, Oreg., make such agreements as will fulfill the best interests and welfare of the Klamath and Modoc Tribes and the Yahoskin Band of Snake Indians. That the representatives elected and chosen by the Indians are to go to Washington, D. C., to present to the committees of Congress and the Interior Department, all matters that the Klamath Tribe of Indians are interested in, namely, health, education, irrigation, timber, grazing, appropriations, reimbursable moneys, etc. That they shall support the incorporation plan as a final solution of the reservation problems: Be it further

Resolved, That the said delegates seek such legislation as will provide for the revising and closing of the Klamath roll. That it is the desire of the Klamath Indians to obtain as equity in the tribal property: Therefore, be it

Resolved, That the delegation will seek such remedial legislation as will promote the best interests and progress of the Klamath Indians and draft legislation relative thereto.

#### Resolution No. 2: Be it

Resolved, That for the purpose of covering the necessary subsistence and other supplemental expenses, tribal funds be used and that the Commissioner of Indian Affairs is hereby requested to pay our representatives transportation and the sum of $8 per day to cover expenses; and to pay actual bills submitted for stationery, stamps, and telegrams, stenographic fees and supplies for tribal

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affairs and correspondence only. Said sums to be paid from Indian moneys, proceeds of labor.

Resolution No. 3: Be it

*Resolved*, That in the event medical attention is needed, any and all bills submitted by doctors for medical and hospital care for any member of the Klamath delegation be paid from tribal funds, Klamath Indian moneys, proceeds of labor.

Resolution No. 4: Be it

*Resolved*, That the representatives of the Indians urge the attorneys, the Interior Department, and the Members of Congress relative to the jurisdictional act, to have said act under date of May 20, 1920, amended if possible in order that the Indians may receive an equitable adjustment and settlement in the court. That the delegation consult the attorneys and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior to urge the suits now pending in the Court of Claims be tried.

Resolution No. 5: Be it

*Resolved*, That the delegation protest any legislation which provides for the reimbursement to the Klamath County or the State of Oregon for moneys claimed by them for taxes or any purposes.

Resolution No. 6: Be it

*Resolved*, That necessary tribal range be reserved for the Indian stock; that all surplus range be granted under permits to cattlemen only; that in areas leased to cattlemen or Indian stockmen (in above their regular number to be grazed free) where trust allotments are unfenced, that the Indian Office pay to the individual Indian his or her proportionate share of the lease money.

Resolution No. 7: Be it

*Resolved*, That hereafter no new irrigation projects shall be constructed or maintained by the Klamath tribal fund.

Resolution No. 8: Be it

*Resolved*, That any legislation tending to create a Klamath National Forest, to be administered in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be pro-tested.

Resolution No. 9: Be it

*Resolved*, That hereafter all prohibition officers' salaries, equipment, and all necessities now used or occupied by said officers be assumed by the municipal, county, State, or Federal Government, thus affording total relief to the Klamath tribal fund.

Resolution No. 10: Be it

*Resolved*, That the said delegates interview the Bureau of Fisheries and the Bureau of Indian Affairs to have a fish ladder constructed at the Copco Dam in the Klamath Basin.

Resolution No. 11: Be it

*Resolved*, That if for any unforeseen or unavoidable reason either delegate should return home the remaining delegate is hereby empowered to remain in Washington, D. C., as the legal representative of the Klamath Tribe of Indians for such time as will be necessary to protect the interests of the tribe.

Resolution No. 12: Be it

*Resolved*, That Wade Crawford and Levi Walker are hereby authorized and empowered to represent us in presenting the foregoing resolutions before the committees of Congress and the Interior Department with full power and authority to act in our names, places, and steads the same as if we were present ourselves.

Foregoing resolutions were separately considered and adopted by unanimous vote this 6th day of November, 1931.

WADE CRAWFORD, President.
LUKE CHESTER, Secretary.

Attached to minutes dated November 6, 1931.

Senator FRAZIER. When was your last consideration of this bill? What date? I mean by the council or by the Indians themselves?

Mr. CRAWFORD. On October 30 and November 6, 1931.

Senator FRAZIER. Last year?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir. That is when the instructions were drawn for the resolutions as a guidance for the delegates.

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Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Is that the tribal council or was it the business committee that acted on October 30 last?

Mr. CRAWFORD. That is the general council.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee: I would request that you give this bill most favorable consideration for the simple reason that there should be some adjustment brought about in connection with the handling of the Klamath Indian affairs. I think you are all familiar with the fact that we have large timber holdings out there which are valued at some $12,000,000. We have simply a business proposition to offer, pure and simple. Under the present administration we find it necessary to do business with people that are 3,000 miles away and that is very unsatisfactory. Ordinarily, if the business was done at home we could do it more satisfactorily with the timbermen, with the sheep men, with the chamber of commerce, with the sportsmen's association, and the different people in the State in reference to health, education, law, and order. I could enumerate for hours and probably for days the abuses as shown by the discretionary power that is now vested in the Secretary of the Interior, but I will not take the time to-day to do that, as there have been pages and pages of testimony given in regard to that fact. When Mr. Scattergood, Mr. Rhoads, and Mr. Wilbur took office we had hoped there would be some change in the administration. We have had a lot of promises since these men took office but we find to-day that the same condition exists as did during the Burke and Meritt administration. We find the same chiefs still on duty down in the bureau, with the Secretary and the commissioner upholding the policy that they have carried on there for the last hundred years. There are numerous complaints coming in from the Indians throughout the year. There is no place I know of that an Indian can go to have these different complaints adjusted. During my last four years of work in this matter in regard to the conditions at Klamath, I have had to go to different individual Members of Congress asking them to make certain adjustments and I find it is a very unsatisfactory way to handle a business proposition, as the Members of Congress are all very busy and they are not able to take the time to go into the detailed part of looking into these different complaints. It is a very unsatisfactory way of doing ordinary business; so much so that there is no business to it. I have found also that the department is not cooperating with the different Members of Congress in their requests that they are making. I do not know of any business which is handled in a similar sort of way to what we have in handling our business. The men on the ground who know their work are there to see it and how it is carried on and that is the way it should be before anything could be worked out satisfactorily. I find from my own experience in the Indian Bureau that there are men approving Indian claims, Indian claimants and tribal requests, who have not the least idea what they are doing. So, therefore, the Indians are not satisfied with the way their business is handled.

I would like to also insert in the record a letter from the superintendent of the Klamath Reservation, Mr. Blair, which was written to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, suggesting the idea of incorporating the Klamath estate.

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Senator FRAZIER. It will be placed in the record.
(The letter referred to above is as follows:)

KLAMATH INDIAN AGENCY, OREG.,
September 4, 1931.

COMMISSIONER OF INDIAN AFFAIRS,
Washington, D. C.

SIR: The situation of the Indians on the Klamath Indian Reservation has become very difficult due to the fact that the tribal property here is very valuable. It is estimated to be worth something like $25,000,000, I believe.

Considerably more than half of these Indians are mixed bloods. One hundred and seventy adults have been granted patents in fee to their land; 438 adults have their property held in trust; 36 adults are unallotted. This makes a total of 644 adults at present on the Klamath roll. There are 654 on the roll who have been born since April 15, 1910, when the allotting stopped.

The general average of intelligence on this reservation is much better than that of most tribes. Very seldom is an interpreter needed, as these people can all make themselves understood. Many are very intelligent in presenting their matters at the office. Many of the patent-in-fee group have the very strong feeling that they should be given greater control in the handling of tribal property in which they have an interest. It seems to me also that it is time we made some plan to terminate the affairs of these Indians, as far as the Government is concerned. At present we apparently give very little consideration to a definite time when the guardianship of the Federal Government will no longer be needed.

I have read in the files considerable correspondence with reference to various bills for the incorporation and otherwise organizing of this tribe so that some progressive steps may be taken for closing out the interests of a part of these people. I have read Senate bill No. 5753, introduced by Senator McNary on February 7, 1929, which would provide for the incorporation of all tribal affairs. It seems to me that it would not do to eliminate the Federal Government from the affairs of the Klamath Tribe, as would be provided if this bill were enacted into a law. There are still many Indians here; in fact, more than half of them, who are not competent to manage their own affairs. However, I do feel that something should be done and that the corporation idea may be the way out.

I have given the matter a great deal of thought and have the following suggestions to make for your consideration:

1. That a corporation authorized under the laws of the State of Oregon be formed and called the Klamath Indian Corporation.

2. Control and ownership of all tribal property now belonging to the Indians on the rolls of the Klamath Reservation shall be vested in the corporation (this does not mean allotted property).

3. Members on the roll will each be issued 10 shares of stock.

4. All members having been granted fee patents to their allotment will be given full control of their stock. All others will have their stock held in trust by the Government; a certain middle group may be given control of a few of their shares to test their competency.

5. The board of directors will consist of one director representing each 100 members on the roll, or a major fraction of 100. The Government will appoint directors to represent those whose shares are held in trust.

6. Officers and managers with appropriate salaries shall be elected for one year at the annual meeting of the board of directors. They shall have full power to manage and operate the property. They shall be adequately bonded and shall be held accountable by the board of directors.

7. The agency will continue to be operated by the Government as long as necessary to administer the affairs of all members considered not competent to manage their own, but only such affairs and allotted property as is not acquired by the corporation. The agency will, therefore, have no official connection with the corporation.

8. Dividends shall be declared twice each year to all shareholders from net income, the amount of these dividends to be determined by the board of directors. Dividends for all trust members shall be paid to the superintendent in charge of the agency, to be placed to the credit of the Indian members and disbursed to them under Indian Office regulations.

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9. Land and property at present agency headquarters shall be available for the exclusive use of the agency as long as needed. The corporation shall have headquarters elsewhere.

10. All members born since April 15, 1910, shall be granted full control of their shares when they reach their twenty-fifth birthday. Those who are children of trust members may be given control of part of their shares only in order to determine their ability to manage their affairs wisely.

11. Each share has 1 vote electing the board of directors.

The above is a rough draft covering some suggestions which may be made to work out this situation. Many problems with reference to it will develop if it is given serious consideration, the question of taxation, closing the roll, etc. However, there should be no difficulty in working out the details of the problem if the idea itself is considered worthwhile.

By careful analysis of the tribal roll I estimate that it would be at least 20 years before a majority of the shares in the corporation would be out of the control of the Government. During that time most of the finest timber will have been cut, and it is quite probable that the value of the shares will have decreased considerably by that time.

I have a feeling that we are making practically no progress in developing this situation, particularly with reference to the Indians themselves. We have no organization doing extension work whatever. Outside of the forestry organization, we are doing practically nothing except try to control the expenditures these people are making from their own and their children's funds. All of this money is not income but capital. It is evident to everyone that handled as it now is it is more of a curse than a benefit. I am very much interested in working out some plan for the future development of this situation.

Whether the office gives favorable consideration or not to the rough outline above, I earnestly recommend that attention be given to this problem. I would welcome most heartily one or more persons to come on the grounds to study the situation with me. These persons might either be interested persons outside of the Indian Service or within as seems best to your office.

I think it is very important that something be done now and that this matter not be delayed. The reason for this is that at the present moment there is no special fight or controversy on here of any consequence. Conditions are such that at any time a controversy may be expected and it would then be much more difficult to secure the cooperation of the Indians in some plan that is presented. It is with this thought in mind that I am presenting this matter at this time. I have been here just four months and have tried during this time to familiarize myself with the problems and conditions. I have visited more than one-third of the homes and have tried very hard to become acquainted with these people. To spend my time arguing with them over the expenditures of a few dollars is very unattractive to me, but if some constructive idea can be devolved into a program for the betterment of conditions, I shall be most interested in it.

Very respectfully,

C. M. BLAIR, Superintendent.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I would like to call your attention to one or two lines in Mr. Blair's letter to the commissioner. He says:

By careful analysis of the tribal roll I estimate that there will be at least 20 years before the majority of the shares in this corporation will be out of the control of the Government. During that time most of the finest timber will have been cut and it is quite probable that the value of the shares will have decreased considerable at that time.

You can see that Mr. Blair has pointed out there that he feels the timber will be cut out inside of 20 years. Under the present administration, if the thing goes on as it is, with large appropriations made from our tribal funds and with the large personnel carried on at the agency, why, in 20 years our timber will be gone, our income will be absorbed by the overhead expenses which are now being forced on the Indians, and we will not have anything. So I think that Congress should do something about this valuable estate and protect the Indians' interests before it is too late. I feel, furthermore, the Indians should have some responsibility. They should be taught

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some business principles with reference to handling their money and their property.

The Klamath Indians have assimilated a great deal in the last 40 or 45 years. Their homes are the same as the average farmer on the reservation. You can not tell an Indian home from a white home. There are three towns within the reservation where large lumber mills engaged in the manufacture of lumber are located, and half the allotted land is now owned by white people. So we have no more an Indian reservation. It is only a reservation in name.

I would say to-day there are at least three or four white persons to every Indian on the reservation, and those people have their homes right there. I think times have changed, and I think the Indian should be taught how to handle his own business. The Indians want the responsibility. They have asked for it repeatedly through resolutions, year after year. They have made several suggestions to the department in regard to handling their timber and their grazing lands and their finances. It has been proven without a shadow of doubt that the Indians have been right in their requests; however, the department has overruled them in every instance. Because of that there is a very bitter feeling between the Indians and the department in regard to the handling of this estate, because the department has failed; as I have expressed it myself, they were drunk with authority. They felt they had the support of the Secretary of the Interior and of the President of the United States and that the Indians did not have enough political power or money to protect themselves against a wonderfully organized machine that has been created in the last hundred years. There is no chance that I can possibly see for the Indians to protect themselves under this administration or under the plan that is now being carried out. As I pointed out, the Indians' money and property has been squandered. Their property has been tied up with unfair timber contracts, which, as Senator Wolcott says, no white man would sign.

I do not know as there is anything more I care to say, in going into detail with reference to showing the abuse of discretion under the law which we live under, but it does seem so unfair to me to see people handling other people's property not subject to court review and no one to appeal to. It just does not seem human to me. I know that the Klamath Indians are perfectly well able to handle this corporation. I would not advocate a thing like this if I did not think they were, as I am a member of the tribe, and I am vitally affected by what this corporation will do for me or for any member of my family and my people and all my friends. As you know, I have been vitally interested in the handling of the entire property out there and interested as well in the protection of the Indians.

For a number of years I have heard the Indians in council year after year asking for more control of their property, and I have always felt they should have some voice in the management of it. When any delegation has come to the reservation, whether it be Members of Congress, committees of Congress, Secretaries of the Interior, the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, the Indians have always expressed themselves that they want control of their property. As it is now, I think the time has come when the Indians should be shown and should have the opportunity of handling their business the same as anybody else's property is handled. Now, the

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way conditions are at Klamath, the Indians are looking to tribal funds for the education of their children. That is, some of the Indians are. There are a great many other Indians who send their children to public schools. Some of the Indians look to their tribal funds for medical care.

Senator STEIWER. May I interrupt you? What percentage of the Indian children are in the public schools on the Klamath Reservation? In the grammar school grades, I mean.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I have not those figures with me, but I have them available.

Senator STEIWER. Does it constitute a majority of all the children on the reservation?

Mr. CRAWFORD. All the Indians attend public schools. I would say three-fourths of them attend the public schools. There are a number of them attend private school. There are very few that attend boarding schools.

Senator STEIWER. For how long a time have educational facilities—that is, grammar-grade schools—been available to the children of the Klamath Indians?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Since 1927. That is when the boarding school burned down. Since then there have been more of the children attending the public schools.

Senator STEIWER. For how long a time have the Indians there received the rudiments of education; that is, the grammar grades, either in public school or in boarding school or day school? I do not care what the facility may have been. I just want to know for how long a period the Indians have had educational opportunities out there.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I would say for the last 25 years. I attended public school about 25 years ago.

Senator STEIWER. Do any of them go to high school?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir.

Senator STEIWER. I am told they do at Chiloquin mostly.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes. I talked to the school superintendent and asked him how the Indians were holding up in their grades and he said the Indians were doing as well on the average as the whites. In fact, they had one or two Indians that were outstanding in their grades. The point I was coming to, Senator, is this: The Indians are living under a socialistic form of government. They have been all these years. This socialistic form of government is certainly not good for the Indians, because the white people do not live under that sort of a government. If you are going to make the Indian become self-supporting, if you are going to make them a people able to take their place in this world side by side with the white man, which they will have to do eventually, they will have to be taught the same as the white man in the handling of their business and the handling of their money. That comes through getting an education and making their living. The day is gone when the Indian can hunt and fish for his living. Unless the Indians have this responsibility and have a chance to protect their interests, why, they will never have that opportunity.

Senator SCHALL. How will they better be protected in the corporation?

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Mr. CRAWFORD. There are nine members on the board of directors, which are elected by the Indians with the advice of the board of supervisors, consisting of three men. I think Senator McNary the President, one by the Federal judge, and the other one elected by the Indians. This board of supervisors is to act in an advisory capacity to the board of directors in handling their business. The board of directors will have an opportunity to express themselves in the handling of their business. They would handle all the tribal business and for the safeguard of the shareholders in the corporation, every member of the board of directors will be subject to the Federal court. There will be court review. Are there any other questions?

Senator STEIWER. Yes; I have a few. Mr. Crawford, when the committee gets ready to consider its action upon this bill I may want to suggest two or three amendments and I should like to talk them over with you briefly while you are here. Let me direct your attention to section 2, line 9, of the bill. You will notice there that certificate of incorporation shall be issued by the judge of the United States Federal court. There are, as you know, two judges in that court. At another point in the bill, page 5, lines 9 and 10, I find also a reference to the Federal district court, which I take it means the United States District Court for the District of Oregon. There is a variation in the phraseology used. Was there any special reason why that was done?

Mr. CRAWFORD. No; not that I know of.

Senator STEIWER. There can be no objection to making that on the first page read by the senior judge or by either one of the judges of the district court? There is no special object in using the language that was used; is that so?

Mr. CRAWFORD. No.

Senator STEIWER. We will consider that later. It might lead to confusion. On page 3, lines 9 to 11, I find this language:

Klamath Indian corporation shall be governed by a board of directors of nine members to be elected by the adult shareholders.

I do not remember offhand whether or not "adult" necessarily means one who has attained a majority.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I think it is intended to mean anyone of the age of 21 years or over.

Senator STEIWER. I assume that you meant to define that as meaning one who had attained the age of 21 years.

Mr. CRAWFORD. On line 6 of page 6 that is covered I think, Senator.

Senator STEIWER. Yes. I suppose those two phrases would be read together and that the language on page 3 would mean those 21 years old. Now, what is the object sought to be attained on page 4, paragraph 7, commencing with line 12? The language is:

* * * the fee patent to be issued by the Secretary of the Interior on recommendation of the board based on the aforementioned agreement.

Is it your understanding that the—

Mr. CRAWFORD. I think the intention—

Senator STEIWER. Just a minute until I finish. Is it your understanding that the board of supervision is to be consulted in connection

with the issuance of patent, or is that a mandatory requirement on the part of the Secretary of the Interior to issue the patent without the approval of the board of supervision?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I think the language is intended to mean that if the Indian should apply to the board of directors and the board of directors would recommend to the Secretary of the Interior that he issued a patent, where an Indian wanted a fee patent, it shall be issued.

Senator FRAZIER. The first of that same paragraph affects that situation, does it not?

Mr. CRAWFORD (reading):

By mutual agreement between the Klamath Indian Corporation and any allotted member of the Klamath Tribe the corporation shall have power to acquire the allotted land or any other trust individual property of any Klamath Indian.

In case that the Indian had a trust patent and he wanted to sell it to the corporation and they did not feel that the corporation would give them enough for their land, then it would give the Indian an opportunity to get a fee patent so that he could sell it to some other individual or to someone else that would give him more money than the appraised value that the corporation would make.

Senator STEIWER. I think I agree with you to that extent that under the provisions of this act a trust Indian could sell to no one except to the corporation and that no patent Indian could sell to any person without any restriction on his right of alienation.

Mr. CRAWFORD. That is right.

Senator STEIWER. That makes very important the question as to who determines when the Indian is entitled to a fee patent. In section 9 provision is made for the board of supervision of three members, but I have some doubt whether the board of supervision would be consulted on this proposition of the issuance of fee patent. Was it your intention that the board should be consulted, or that the patent should be issued by mandatory requirement on the part of the Secretary of the Interior upon recommendation of the corporation or upon recommendation of the board of directors?

Mr. CRAWFORD. That is what I understand to be the intention of the language in section 7.

Senator STEIWER. There would be no objection if you had that on recommendation of the board of advisors, would there?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I do not know.

Senator STEIWER. Where it refers to board, if that were board of supervisors—

Mr. CRAWFORD. You mean near the end of section 7?

Senator STEIWER. Would it not be better if the fee patent should be issued only upon the approval of the board of supervisors?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir; I believe that is perfectly all right.

Senator STEIWER. Because the board of supervisors will consist of 3 members, 1 to be appointed by the President, 1 by the court, and 1 to be elected by the Indians. We can consider that later. In connection with the same matter I want to call attention to the language in section 8, line 17: "but no sale of stock shall be made from one Indian to another or to any white person." That means an Indian who has not received his fee patent, is that not true?

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Mr. CRAWFORD. I think the intention of that language is that no sale of stock shall be made from one Indian to another. The language shall apply to all members of the tribe.

Senator STEIWER. Even though they have received their patents in fee?

Mr. CRAWFORD. They are only stockholders in the corporation. It is meant that the Indians would not be allowed to sell any of their stock to anyone excepting back to the corporation.

Senator STEIWER. Look at the language in line 15. It says:

For the duration of the trust period adult members of the corporation shall be empowered to sell their shares of stock to the corporation.

Does that not imply that after termination of the trust period the stockholders may sell to anyone?

Mr. COLLIER. Isn't that the trust period of the tribal estate?

Senator STEIWER. It might mean the trust period on the whole tribal estate.

Mr. COLLIER. There are two trust periods, the trust period on the tribal property and then the trust period over the allotted lands of the individuals.

Senator STEIWER. The allotted lands are not involved in this transaction.

Mr. COLLIER. Except as they are sold back to the corporation.

Senator STEIWER. Yes, but I do not believe this refers to the trust period on the allotted lands. I assume it means the trust period—

Mr. COLLIER. Of the corporation.

Senator STEIWER. Of the corporation. It is far from clear and let me suggest in this same connection the language in lines 17 and 18 ought to be studied—that no sale of stock shall be made from one Indian to another or to any white person. Now that does not by any means exclude sale to a private corporation or to a Negro or somebody else. It seems to me that language ought to be “no sale of stock shall be made from one Indian to another or to any other purchaser during the trust period.”

Mr. COLLIER. Yes.

Senator STEIWER. A very good way to state that is “During the trust period there shall be no sale to any purchaser other than the corporation.” That makes the language certain and clear.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I think that would be a very good amendment if that language were inserted there.

Senator STEIWER. No further questions.

Senator FRAZIER. Any other questions?

(No response.)

Senator FRAZIER. At the outset of the formation of the corporation the tribal property is to be divided, is it?

Mr. CRAWFORD. It makes no such provision. It is up to Congress to act in between time it is held in trust for that 50-year period. There is no provision for dissolution in that period. I would like to suggest on line 20, page 3, after the word “meeting” there be inserted “to serve for the term of three years.” That only clears up the language there a little bit in regard to the term of years that the board of directors will hold office.

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Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a question just for the sake of clearing up the meaning on page 8, line 1. It says:

All jurisdiction of the Bureau of Indian Affairs over the Klamath Reservation will be terminated.

We have just been discussing section 7 where the Secretary of the Interior would continue to be trustee apparently, or he would have to issue the fee patent to any allotted Indian that ceased any longer to be a trust Indian. Would those be consistent? It means in the one case the Secretary had continuing power and in the other case all jurisdiction would cease. I am wondering how that would work out. There seems to be a little confusion.

Mr. COLLIER. He is simply constituted an appointing officer who appoints one member of the board. That is the express provision.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. I mean in its relationship to the individual. He still has a continuous trust period.

Mr. COLLIER. This clearly transfers that authority to the board of supervision.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Then the fee patent would not be issued to the Secretary of the Interior continuously, but only transferred at the time.

Mr. COLLIER. By the present language of the bill, as I understand it, the fee patent would be issued by the Secretary practically when so directed by the board of directors, or it might be changed to the board of supervision.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Would that fee patent be a transfer to the corporation with the tribal assets at the same time as the transfer of all of the land held in trust for the Indians?

Mr. COLLIER. This relates to individual patents. This relates to patents for allotted land.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Would they be held by the Secretary or would they likewise be transferred?

Mr. COLLIER. The patents in trust?

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. For the individual Indians.

Mr. COLLIER. The allotment that had not yet been translated into a fee patent, where would it be?

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. COLLIER. By the language of the act under the control of the board of supervisors.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. After that transfer had been made to them, then why would they not issue that fee patent called for in line 12?

Mr. COLLIER. That could be done.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. It just simply seems to me to be a confusion.

Mr. COLLIER. There is a duplication of functions there.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Either the Secretary should continue or he should not. If he does then the last pages are correct. If he does not he would not be the one to issue the fee patent. That language would have to be cleared up, it would seem to me.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I would like to suggest on page 8, line 7, after “provided” the language “including individual Indian moneys, allotments of land in trust and any and all other property belonging

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to any enrolled member of the Klamath tribe." The latter part of the bill reads:

Any powers of the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior, except the approval of the final roll which are not by the preceding terms of this act transferred to the Klamath Indian Corporation, shall be transferred to the board of supervision hereinbefore provided.

You should mention individual money there to make things more clear.

Senator STEIWER. Where is the provision about excepting the roll—line 4?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir; beginning on line 2:

Any powers of the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior, except the approval of the final roll which are not by the preceding terms of this Act—

And so forth.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. In connection with the handling of all that individual money was it the thought that the board of supervision would set up machinery for the handling of trust estates similar to that now existing in the Department of the Interior?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir. The board of supervision would act as guardians of the minors and the old and restricted Indians.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Has any estimate of the cost of the machinery been made that you know of?

Mr. CRAWFORD. No. There has been no estimate set up, but I am quite sure that it would not be anywhere in comparison with the present administration cost.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. As a matter of fact, that part of the work is costing the Indians nothing at this time.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Because the bill provides that the supervisors would not be paid more than $5,000 for the three members. At the present time the superintendent is paid a little over $4,000 a year. I will give you the correct figure. I know that we can be sure we would not have any such payroll as now carried with all these fat salaries if the Indians had anything to do with it.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. What I had in mind, Mr. Chairman, was the work of the supervision of trusts which is now done by the Interior Department, which, of course, is not charged to the tribal fund at all. That would be work they propose to take over and it would incur a considerable expense. I was interested to know if an estimate had been made of it.

Mr. COLLIER. In that respect, the bill conveys to the individual member of the tribe the authority to enter into an arrangement with a trust company, if desirable, to handle such matters. That is on page 7, line 3. It might become possible to decentralize and turn the work over to the routine operations of a trust company.

Senator STEIWER. Of course that would cost the Indians some money.

Mr. COLLIER. It would not cost them so much.

Senator STEIWER. It could not be done without charge.

Mr. COLLIER. It would be then charged against his own income; otherwise it might be a charge against the tribal fund. If the board of supervisors undertook an extensive trust jurisdiction, they would have to be paid for out of the tribal fund, or the individual might

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negotiate the whole matter through a trust company, as allowed in the bill.

Senator STEIWER. Mr. Crawford, is it the purpose of this bill, as you understand it—and I am referring especially to the language on the last page—to turn over the complete administration of the affairs of the Klamath Indians to the corporation and to divest the Secretary of the Interior of all jurisdiction save the ministerial authority to issue the fee patents upon recommendation?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir; that is my understanding of the bill and I think that is the intention of the bill.

Senator STEIWER. So that an Indian allotment whose allotment is now held in trust, would go out from the jurisdiction of the Secretary of the Interior immediately and the question of the issuance of his trust patent would be determined by the board subject possibly to the approval of the supervisors and without reference to the Secretary of the Interior?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir.

Senator STEIWER. If that be true, let me invite your further attention to the language on page 4 at the end of paragraph 7. The language there used is that the fee patent shall be issued by the Secretary of the Interior on certain recommendations. Now, I do not know certainly whether that means a fee patent with respect to his right to alienate his stock without restriction or if that means his right to deal with his allotment which has been heretofore made to him. If there is any question about that, it ought to be cleared up.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir; it should be.

Senator STEIWER. Or we will immediately find those people involved in lawsuits.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I think it applies to allotments. It speaks of allotments. In line 11 it says allotments.

Senator STEIWER. Then where is the power to determine the trust period on the stock?

Mr. COLLIER. There is none. You can not sell it to anybody but the corporation. The stock remains in trust until the corporation terminates the trust period over the tribal estate; until Congress acts.

Senator STEIWER. Then all of the stock under this plan would remain in trust until the whole property was released by act of Congress?

Mr. COLLIER. That is the effect of the bill as drawn.

Senator STEIWER. The only difference is that one Indian would be denied the right to sell to anybody except the corporation, whereas another Indian might have the general right of sale?

Mr. COLLIER. Not in respect to stock.

Senator STEIWER. Not in respect to stock?

Mr. COLLIER. Only in respect to property which has been allotted.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Is it planned to turn the deed to the property over from the Secretary to the corporation?

Mr. COLLIER. That is to be held in trust. It is a trust patent.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Is it to be held by the corporation or to be held by the Secretary in trust? The title is to pass in the beginning from the Secretary to the corporation, not only the title to the tribal lands but also of these allotted lands. From what Mr. Crawford said I gathered that is what was intended. That is to say, the corporation

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would become the new trustee of all of the property in place of the present Secretary of the Interior.

Senator STEIWER. There is a little incongruity in that. I do not know that it is hurtful, but it is worth reflecting on a little. The corporation apparently would become trustee for the property which it holds and in a sense trustee for the Indian stockholders; yes.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. But what property is it to hold?

Mr. COLLIER. All tribal property, all shares of stock.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. All allotted land?

Mr. COLLIER. Yes; it is guardian.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. What is left for the Secretary to hold?

Senator STEIWER. Nothing.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Why should he be the one to issue the fee patent then?

Senator STEIWER. Perhaps I have no right to speak on this matter because I do not know about it, but I was very much interested in the point. I assumed in the performance of the duty, which is probably purely ministerial, there at the end of section 7, that he would issue those fee patents merely to get the patent out of the United States.

Mr. CRAWFORD. That is the intention.

Senator STEIWER. By the way, that is a function which the President of the United States normally would exercise. I do not know of any very good reason why the Secretary of the Interior should issue any patent. If I had a homestead entry and had complied with the law, my patent would be issued by the President of the United States.

Mr. CRAWFORD. That is what happens to the patents to the Indians. It is signed by the President.

Senator STEIWER. Apparently there is some innovation in the existing law here.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. If this patent is to be transferred at the beginning of the whole business from the Secretary to the corporation, what duties continue in the Secretary? It seems to me he has been freed.

Senator STEIWER. There is an incongruity in that.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. If the title is to pass to the corporation and the corporation is a creature of the State of Oregon, would it be possible legally to exempt it from taxes or is tax exemption only possible in a property continued to be held by the United States?

Mr. COLLIER. It is provided to be held in trust in the United States.

Senator STEIWER. It says:

All property, real and personal, held in trust for the Klamath Tribe in the United States shall be transferred by the Secretary of the Interior to the Klamath Indian Corporation under a trust patent to be made a fee patent in the discretion of the Congress.

Mr. COLLIER. That is holding it in Congress.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. The corporation would hold it in trust instead of the Secretary of the Interior?

Mr. COLLIER. That is correct.

Senator STEIWER. I am not sure. The language is it shall be held in trust under a trust patent by the corporation and evidently there is a reservation of some kind in the United States.

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Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Well, what is it?

Senator STEIWER. Which Congress must extinguish.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. What is it?

Senator STEIWER. I do not know, but there is some residue there which is held in the jurisdiction of the United States, concerning which Congress will eventually take action.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Nothing seems to be stated.

Senator STEIWER. That ought to be clarified.

Mr. CRAWFORD. If you have an amendment to offer to that section in order to clarify it, we will be glad to consider it.

Senator STEIWER. I was going to suggest, I am sympathetic toward many of the purposes of this bill. I would like to see it very carefully considered, and with a view to its enactment, I was going to suggest there are enough questions involved of a legal nature that the bill probably ought to be submitted to the legislative drafting room of the Senate for advice on a half dozen points brought up today. I would not want to take the responsibility of working out questions that are quite technical and very important, because if Congress should make a mistake in the form of its enactment, it might not only subject your property to taxation, but it certainly would soon bring litigation upon your people and no end of trouble.

Mr. CRAWFORD. This bill has been before Congress for the last three years and it has also been before the department. The bill was drawn by one of the attorneys in the Secretary of the Interior's office and he is considered the best corporation lawyer in that department. I do not know anything about the legal end of it, but I would like to see the bill amended so that the Indians would be safeguarded in every way possible. I think the principle of the bill and the heart of the bill is all right, excepting just a few minor changes which you have suggested. I do not see any real criticism to be made of the bill.

Senator STEIWER. I did not make any criticism of the purposes of the bill. I am talking about the language.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I think the things you have called attention to in the bill are very simple and they could be clarified and put in plain language very quickly, with the exception of the question of taxation, which the department has brought up. It seems to me that the language in the bill is clear that tribal lands will not be taxed if Congress wants to pass an act like that for 50 years. The Indians are not taxed now, and because we want control of our property immediately taxes are thrown in our face. I am not trying to avoid taxes. I think the Indians should be favored with taxes, but we could not possibly pay taxes under the present condition as our timber is contracted. If we had made legitimate, businesslike contracts like should have been made, where the contractors would assume the fire risk, the beetle control and taxes we would be glad to pay taxes. If we are to pay taxes that is the sort of contract we should have had when we sold our timber. The timber men would have assumed the taxes.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. How about the taxes on the parts of the property not yet contracted for? Would you be able to meet the taxes on that?

Mr. CRAWFORD. We certainly could if we were out from under the department and these lumber contracts.

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Mr. SCATTERGOOD. I do not want to say anything in reference to the attorney just mentioned. The attorney was put by the Secretary of the Interior at the disposal of the Indians to formulate an idea of the Indian delegates had and in no way did he assume responsibility for putting forward ideas of his own or the ideas of the department. What he was trying to do was to carry out the proposals which were suggested by the Indian delegates themselves.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I want to say in that connection, Mr. Chairman, that the attorney for the Secretary did not draw this bill with the department's ideas. The point I wanted to bring out is this: I went to Secretary Wilbur through a letter of Vice President Curtis to the Secretary, asking him to give us the assistance of an attorney in drafting this legislation. When the Secretary gave us this man he said, "I consider this man is the best corporation lawyer that we have in the department." The point I was bringing out is he is the best attorney they have down there in the department on corporation law.

Senator STEIWER. With all respect to the lawyer, Mr. Crawford, we will have to change this bill some. For instance here is a matter I have not mentioned. It provides a certificate of incorporation shall be issued by the judge of the United States Federal Court. Some authorities hold that can not be done; that power can not be delegated. Mr. Goroud tells me he has authorities that absolutely deny the right of the Government to do it in that way. That does not present an obstacle to that bill entirely, but we may have to change that language in order to provide that the certificate of incorporation shall be issued in some other way than here provided.

Mr. CRAWFORD. By the governor of the State.

Senator STEIWER. I do not know what the law provides. You do not want the bill to contain a provision which the courts will not sustain and one that will be held to be invalid?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Oh, no.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Senator Steiwer, you have been chairman of a subcommittee of the Senate studying the relation of various functions, such as law and order, education, and so forth, as they affect tax questions and the tax-free Indians. It would be very interesting if we could discuss how these various functions of education, law, and order, and so forth, could be conducted by this corporation when it does not pay taxes to the State. Would it be itself a municipal corporation calling upon its own funds to carry out these functions and what would be its relation then to the surrounding citizenship of the community?

Senator STEIWER. I am sorry you asked that question because I did not want to get into a discussion of it in detail. I think it would have to be a municipal corporation and would have to exercise functions which are more or less equivalent to the functions of a government. The land itself will not pay taxes. It will not be subject, at least, to the taxation of the local governmental agencies. It is so provided in the bill that it shall not be subject to that kind of taxation. There must be some way of raising funds by the corporation in order to discharge the necessary obligations to the people of the tribe. That in itself is a very difficult question. It may be that Klamath County could be persuaded to continue making contributions for the maintenance of the schools on the reservation as

they have in the past, but when this thing is done I do not know just what the attitude of the county may be. That is a thing that could be ascertained. As far as I am concerned, Mr. Chairman, I like the sportsmanship displayed by Mr. Crawford; in that he is not trying to defend the Indians against the payment of taxes. I think as an Indian that is a very fine thing for him to say. I suppose the day will come when this Indian property will be subjected to the ordinary forms of taxation, but that time has not yet arrived. If we were to subject this property to taxation, either by one means or another, I think we would be doing the Indians an enormous injustice, and it would probably result in the loss of their property. I would not vote for any bill that will affix tax liens against the Indians' property, or that would give the county or State the right to foreclose on the Indians' property in order to collect taxes.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Senator, I would like to call your attention to one thing. There are some 200 Indians out there who are paying taxes to the county on their original allotments and on lands which they have bought. They have paid taxes for a number of years. I know my father has paid taxes for over 15 years. The point I was raising was this: If our timber was not tied up under the present sort of contracts why I would not see any reason why the Indians should not assume the same responsibility as anybody else in regard to taxes, because we would not have sold our timber to anyone unless we would have had a provision in the contract that they would assume the taxes.

Senator STEIWER. Would that not mean—

Mr. CRAWFORD. We would handle our estate the same as a privately owned concern handled their timber.

Senator STEIWER. But would that not depreciate the value of your timber?

Mr. CRAWFORD. No, not any more than it is now. It is true that it appears on the face of things that the Indian timber is bringing more money, but when you consider the way the contracts are carried out, the making of readjustments in connection with the price of stumpage, together with the extension of time allowed in the contracts on the annual cutting, why where it would look as if the Indians were getting $5 per thousand feet for the timber they actually get $3 a thousand for it. That is the way it works out.

Senator FRAZIER. Under the provisions of this bill, if it were adopted, the Indians who are now paying taxes on their property would still continue to pay taxes?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Oh, yes.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. If any of the timber would be taxable all of it would be, and the contracted timber would not take care of the taxes on the uncontracted property. So that would have to be taken into consideration.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I think there are about 2,000,000,000 feet that is not under contract now.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Senator Steiwer, have you seen the report of the Secretary and the commissioner on this bill?

Senator STEIWER. I did two years ago.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Secretary Wilbur made some remarks of his own in which he pointed out the desirability of this and that even-

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tually, in the long run, there would be no solution found except the
Indians coming in like others and paying taxes. I wondered if you
had seen that memorandum.

Senator STEIWER. No.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. I do not think it has been printed, but it is
really very pertinent to the discussion we have just been having. I
was going to read it here.

Senator FRAZIER. We will have it put in the record some time
during the hearing. Is that all, Mr. Crawford?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I have nothing further.

(Witness excused.)

STATEMENT OF LEVI WALKER

Mr. WALKER. We are very much interested in this proposed measure that is before this committee, namely, Senate Bill 3588. This bill proposes certain measures to handle the affairs of the Klamath Indians.

We have a reservation over there in Oregon on which we have
some timber. It is stated that the timber is worth in the neighbor-
hood of $30,000,000. Sometimes it has been put as low as $20,000,000.
There are nearly 1,300 Indians interested in this Klamath estate.
So it is a very important matter which is under discussion here
to-day and the Indians out there have been discussing this matter
for some time.

May I be permitted to go back a little? Soon after the treaty
between the Klamath Indians and the United States Government
there arose a little misunderstanding. Of course, that is quite
natural because they did not have the means to make an agreement
intelligently at that time. So they have had some misunderstand-
ings. For over 40 or 50 years the Klamath Indians have tried to
make some adjustment, just as Mr. Crawford has just made the
statement, until May 26, 1920, when Congress passed an enabling act
or jurisdictional bill, or whatever you might call it, to adjust all the
misunderstandings between the Klamath Tribe of Indians and the
United States Government. That part was set aside so that our
redress would come from the courts. When the matter had been
settled to that extent, we employed four attorneys. We then dis-
cussed on the Klamath Indian Reservation about our property which
we are holding. Various meetings had been called and discussions
place in different ways in regard to the handling of our affairs.
The question naturally arose: What shall we do with our property?
How can we get the best use of our property?—meaning the whole
tribal estate.

It was upon that theory that the Klamath Indians delegated some
of the members, including myself, several times, to go to Congress,
and I have here one measure which, if I would be permitted, I would
like to insert in the record, showing the efforts of the Klamath
Indians. One delegation consisting of four persons drafted a bill,
which was recently introduced as one of the wishes of the Klamath
Indians.

Senator FRAZIER. What is the date of that bill?

KLAMATH INDIAN CORPORATION

25

Mr. WALKER. The date of this bill is March 21, 1932, in the
seventy-second Congress, No. 10703, introduced by Mr. Butler by re-
quest.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. That is the same bill that was introduced at one
time previously, is it?

Mr. WALKER. It has never been introduced. Upon the same as-
sumption a bill, Senate No. 3588, was introduced by Senator McNary,
and that is the one which we are now discussing. There was another
bill introduced by Senator McNary sometime about 1919 or 1920
dealing with the same subject of the Klamath estate; also one by
Mr. Hawley, representative from Oregon. He introduced one.
Senator Chamberlain, who is now dead, also introduced another one.
So for a long time we have been trying to secure legislation to
adjust the differences between ourselves and the Government. We
have been trying to secure some sort of legislation by which we could
take care of our property.

This is the outcome of the desire of the Klamath Indians, as we
might say. This bill which we are now discussing was presented to
the Klamath Indians upon the return of Mr. Crawford, who is the
chairman of the business committee. As I remember he and the
other delegates of the Klamath Indians called a council and they
were not in favor of this bill. There were five or six meetings called
for the purpose of discussing this bill, three of which I at-
tended myself, and they refused to take any action on it. I do not
know of any record to the contrary. I do not know of any record
where I could recall at any time they agreed to accepting the opera-
tion of the plan. For several years, since 1929 or 1928, Mr. Craw-
ford and his committee has been urging the passage of this bill. On
the other hand, the people at large are not in sympathy with the plan.
At the same time, as I have stated here, they are looking toward
conserving their property and they are seeking a way to get a
remedy.

Last year, the fall of 1931, I was selected as one of the delegates
to come to this city, and soon after I was elected I received a notice
from Mr. Crawford, chairman of the business committee, to attend
this meeting. I went and while there I was approached with the
question as to what my plans were in going to Washington. I told
them I did not have any plans. I told them the only thing I asked
the business committee to do was to pass a resolution favoring the
selection of the best material that we have on the reservation; to hold
a round-table conference and discuss the question of the Klamath
Indians, whether we would be in favor of the incorporation bill or
whether we would be in favor of the final settlement or whether we
would be in favor of the McNary bill, and other bills. Now I say
it is useless to go to Washington, as I have been here so many times,
without having a fair understanding of what is best for the
Klamaths. So the committee agreed to that; that that was a good
move. So the request for the round-table conference was called.
Then the authority was conferred upon Mr. Crawford to select the
best material on the reservation, and here I have the minutes of that
meeting in which they voted down the corporation bill. If it is
permissible, I would like to have this incorporated in these hearings.

Senator FRAZIER. What is the date of that?

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KLAMATH INDIAN CORPORATION

Mr. WALKER. October 13, 1931. Mr. Crawford was chairman and Seldon E. Kirk was temporary secretary. It gives the names of the special committee for the round-table conference, including the business committee, over which Mr. Crawford presided.

Mr. CROWFORD. That is before the resolutions were drawn.

Senator FRAZIER. The minutes will be placed in the record.

(The document referred to above is as follows:)

The president of the business committee called the meeting of the business committee to order at 10.50 o'clock, Monday, October 19, 1931, at Klamath Agency, Oreg. This meeting being a continuation of the meeting held October 13, 1931.

The secretary called the roll of the business committee with the following present: Wade Crawford, Mrs. W. Crawford, Joe Kirk, Elmer Hill, and S. E. Kirk. Following this the names of the 20 members appointed by the president for the round-table conference was called with the following present: Mrs. Wm. Moore, Archie Chipps, Mrs. Wm. Crawford, Boyd Jackson, Eddie Cookman, Hiram Robbins, Sim Riddle, Levi Walker, James Johnson, Byron Lotches, Harrison Brown, Sam Clinton, Wilbur Eggsman, Wm. Skeen. The president urged every one to keep within the bounds of courtesy in their discussions and to dwell on the subject discussed. He then called on Levi Walker for an address who responded with advice urging cooperation in our problems and backing up the Delegation to Washington, D. C., in whatever solution this meeting may attempt.

Mr. Levi Walker moved the bill entitled "For the Relief of the Indians of the Klamath Indian Reservation in Oregon, and for other purposes" be considered at this time. This motion was seconded by J. Johnson.

The above bill was read by the secretary.

A motion to take recess until 1:30 o'clock was made and passed.

The meeting adjourned.

The meeting was called to order at 2 o'clock by the president.

The question to discuss upon the bill introduced by Levi Walker was put to vote by the Chair. The members voted against the motion.

Mr. Cookman moved the corporation bill be discussed. This motion was read and voted favorably upon. The bill was read by the secretary.

The secretary here made a motion that we appoint a reading clerk. This motion was carried and Mr. Boyd Jackson was appointed.

The corporation bill introduced by Mr. Cookman was discussed thoroughly by section with no serious opposition to any of the sections.

A motion for a recess until 10 o'clock October 20 was made and passed.

The meeting convened at 10:45 o'clock, October 20, 1931, with the following present: W. Crawford, Mrs. Ida Crawford, Joe Kirk, Elmer Hill, S. E. Kirk, and a majority of the special committee of twenty.

The meeting started with invocation by Lincoln Butler.

The reading clerk resumed the reading of the corporation bill with discussion following. In recapitulating sections 3 and 4 were taken up for further discussion. A recess was taken to meet again at 1:30 p. m., October 20, 1931.

The Chair called the House to order at 2 o'clock. As there was no further discussion on section 3, section 4 of the corporation bill was read by the reading clerk. This section was discussed pro and con.

Mr. Cookman made a motion that discussion on the corporation bill be closed. This motion was seconded and passed favorably.

Mr. Cookman moved the incorporation plan be adopted by this body as the plan for a final settlement of our property with the Government. This motion was seconded by Mrs. W. Crawford. The chair put the motion to vote, the body casting a tie vote.

A call for second vote was made which was granted by the chair. The second vote defeated the motion by a vote of 8 to 9.

A motion was made by J. Johnson that the delegation borrow money from the United States Treasury. This motion was seconded. Discussion both in the affirmative and negative by members of the committee took place.

Mr. Walker moved the discussion be closed. This motion was seconded and passed.

The main question was then put to vote. Majority of the members present voted against the motion.

KLAMATH INDIAN CORPORATION

27

A motion was made that this round table conference adjourn and that the business committee continue in session to draft resolution for guidance of delegation.

This motion was put to vote and passed.

The preceding minutes was read and declared approved by the chair.

The meeting adjourned.

S. E. KIRK, Secretary Pro Tem.

WADE CRAWFORD, President.

Mr. WALKER. I also want to include in the presentation of this matter the bill that the Klamath Indians offered, with a slight modification.

Senator FRAZIER. Which one is that?

Mr. WALKER. The final settlement bill. It is for the relief of the Klamath Indians in Oregon.

[H. R. 10703, Seventy-second Congress, first session]

A BILL For the relief of the Indians of the Klamath Indian Reservation, in Oregon, and for other purposes

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the general council of the Klamath and Modoc Tribes and the Yahoskin Band of Snake Indians on the Klamath Reservation, in Oregon, hereinafter called the tribe, shall be known as the Klamath Tribal Council. It shall be recognized as having general authority over all reservation tribal matters, and shall be conducted under rules and regulations approved by the Secretary of the Interior.

There shall also be a business committee consisting of not more than eleven persons, all members of the tribe, elected by the adult members thereof, the powers, authority, duties and compensation of which committee shall be fixed and expressly declared by the Klamath Tribal Council, and shall be limited thereby. It shall be recognized by the Secretary of the Interior as the executive committee of the Klamath Tribal Council in all matters definitely within the jurisdiction of the committee.

All adult members of the tribe, as determined by the final roll to be made under the provisions of this act, shall be entitled to vote in the council.

SEC. 2. Within six months after the approval of this act the Secretary of the Interior shall prepare a complete roll of the members of the tribe. When completed it shall be the final roll of the tribe, on which allotments of tribal land and distribution of other tribal property thereafter shall be made.

The roll shall be made as of the date of the passage of this act, and the names of all persons then living and entitled to enrollment shall be placed on the roll.

Any names found to be on the tribal rolls fraudulently may at any time within one year after the approval of the final roll be stricken therefrom by the Secretary of the Interior after giving all parties in interest a full opportunity to be heard in regard thereto; and any allotment made to such fraudulent allottee shall be canceled and shall become a part of the common tribal property: Provided, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to deprive any such person of the protection in the premises afforded under existing law.

In order that the final roll may be completed as speedily as possible the Secretary of the Interior shall prepare forthwith a complete roll of the unallotted members of the tribe living at the date of the approval of this act and recognized by the Klamath General Council as members of the tribe.

The names of all persons living on the date of the approval of this act and entitled to be enrolled as of that date shall be placed on the final roll, and no child born thereafter to a member of the tribe shall be entitled to enrollment or to participate in the distribution of any tribal property.

No person whose name appears upon the roll of any other Indian tribe, and who is recognized as a member by such tribe, shall be enrolled as a member of the above-mentioned tribe occupying the Klamath Indian Reservation in Oregon.

SEC. 3. Except in cases of applications for allotment of land on the Klamath Indian Reservation filed prior to the passage of this act, and not then finally acted upon by the Secretary of the Interior, no further allotment in severalty of Klamath tribal lands shall be made; but every person found entitled to enrollment pursuant to the provisions of this act who has never received an

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allotment of land on any Indian reservation shall, in lieu of an allotment of land, receive out of Klamath tribal funds the sum of $3,000: Provided, That the acceptance thereof shall be held to be a relinquishment by such person the forever of all claim to allotment of land, but shall not diminish such member's right to an equal per capita share of all other tribal property.

All applications for allotment of land pending at the date of the approval of this act, or thereafter filed, shall be promptly heard, and shall be disposed of by the Secretary of the Interior within the period of one year from the date of this act.

SEC. 4. Hereafter public highways or roads may be established on or over tribal lands within the limits of the Klamath Reservation by State or county authorities, only with the consent of the Klamath Tribal Council, subject to such rules and regulations as may be established by the Secretary of the Interior; but no moneys shall be taken or used from the tribal funds for the survey, location, construction, repair, or maintenance of any roads within the reservation without the express consent of the Klamath Tribal Council.

SEC. 5. No new or additional irrigation projects on or over tribal lands within the reservation, besides those already in operation, shall be paid for, in whole or in part, out of tribal funds, unless the same shall first have been requested, accepted, and approved by the Klamath Tribal Council; and no tribal funds shall hereafter be appropriated or used to pay for the construction, extension, maintenance, or repair of any existing project; but all such expenses, if properly chargeable, shall be assessed against the lands within the limits of the respective projects and directly benefited thereby: Provided, That all sums already reimbursed to the United States out of tribal funds for the construction, maintenance, or repair of existing projects within the reservation, without the express consent of the tribe, shown by the tribal council proceedings, shall be returned and paid back into the tribal fund within the period of one year from the date of this act; and there is hereby appropriated out of the Treasury of the United States from any moneys not otherwise appropriated, a sufficient sum to so reimburse the Klamath tribal fund for all moneys taken therefrom since the beginning of the year 1902 for said purpose.

Within six months after the date of this act all charges against allotments of land on the Klamath Reservation for the construction, operation, or maintenance of any irrigation project shall be readjusted in strict accordance with the actual value thereof to such allotment, respectively, such charges to be paid by the owner of the allotment to the United States, in not less than 20-annual payments; and all other irrigation charges against said allotment shall be canceled.

SEC. 6. Hereafter not more than six hundred and forty acres of tribal lands may be reserved for administration purposes on the reservation, and all tracts so reserved shall be definitely described and made a matter of record at the Klamath Agency and at the Indian Office.

Whenever any agency buildings, structures, or improvements of any kind cease to be needed for the administration of tribal business it shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Interior, under such rules and regulations as he shall prescribe, to sell the same promptly and deposit the proceeds of sale in the tribal fund; and hereafter no tribal funds shall be used for the construction or restoration of any additional dwelling house on the reservation, without the consent of the Klamath Tribal Council: Provided, That in case of destruction by fire or other casualty, after the passage of this act, of any agency dwelling house any insurance money paid to the tribe on account of the loss may be used for restoring such dwelling, if in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior it be needed for tribal use.

SEC. 7. Within ninety days after June 30 in every year a statement of account for the preceding fiscal year shall be submitted by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs to the business committee of the tribe, showing with reasonable fullness all receipts from the tribal property, and the sources thereof, together with all expenditures for or on account of the tribe, and the activities in which those expenditures have been made, to the end that the tribe shall be kept fully and accurately informed as to the income from its tribal estate and the expense of administering its tribal affairs. At the same time there shall also be submitted to the business committee of the Indian Bureau's estimate of the amount of tribal funds needed to meet the expenses of the Klamath Agency and all its activities, specifying the same in detail, for the next fiscal year thereafter.

SEC. 8. It shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Interior within two years from the date of this act to reimburse the tribal fund for all sums due and

KLAMATH INDIAN CORPORATION

29

collectible from individual members of the tribe at that time; and thereafter no reimbursable loans out of tribal funds, and no issue of property purchased with tribal moneys, shall be made to individual members of the tribe or others.

SEC. 9. From and after the date of this act no lease of tribal lands on the Klamath Reservation shall be made, extended, or renewed by the Secretary of the Interior, without the consent of the Klamath Tribal Council, for a period of more than one year.

SEC. 10. Any and all minerals, including oil and gas, on any lands unallotted at the date of this act are reserved for the benefit of the tribe.

SEC. 11. Jurisdiction is hereby conferred upon the Court of Claims, with right of appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States, to hear, consider, and adjudicate any claim or claims not heretofore submitted to the Court of Claims which the Klamath and Modoc Tribes and the Yahoskin Band of Snake Indians, or any member or members thereof, may have against the United States, arising since the year 1900 out of agreement or act of Congress, or for the misappropriation or wrongful use of any moneys due or for interest thereon if legally collectible, or for the failure of the United States to pay such moneys when due or for interest thereon if legally collectible, or for the amount of any liens or other charges wrongfully assessed against tribal or individual lands or properties.

The claim or claims of individual members of the tribe may be presented separately or jointly by petition, subject, however, to amendment; suit to be filed within five years after the passage of this act.

The petition may be verified by the attorney or attorneys employed by the claimant, and no other verification shall be necessary: Provided, That if the tribe be party plaintiff, the attorney verifying the petition must be employed under contract executed in conformity with existing law.

Official letters, papers, documents, and public records, or certified copies thereof, may be used in evidence; and the departments of the Government shall give the attorney or attorneys for said Indians access to such papers, correspondence, or records as may be needed by them.

Any fees decreed by the court to the attorney or attorneys of record shall be paid out of any sum or sums recovered in such suit or suits, and no part of such fees shall be taken from any money in the Treasury of the United States belonging to the tribe unless specifically authorized in the attorneyship contract approved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior as herein provided.

SEC. 12. Upon the approval of this act the Secretary of the Interior shall forthwith appoint a commission, to be known as the Klamath Commission, consisting of three persons, to perform the duties hereinafter set forth, two of which persons shall be enrolled members of the tribe, selected by a majority vote of the Klamath Tribal Council, at a meeting duly called and held for that purpose; and one member of the commission shall be a representative of the Department of the Interior, to be selected by the Secretary of the Interior.

Within thirty days after their appointment the members of the commission shall meet at the Klamath Agency and organize, in accordance with rules and regulations to be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior; and all acts of the commission shall be subject to his approval.

The members of the commission shall each be paid a salary not to exceed $15 a day while actually engaged in the work hereunder, together with necessary expenses, exclusive of subsistence.

The commission shall have authority to employ surveyors, engineers, cruisers, estimators, clerks, stenographers, and such other assistants as may be necessary to perform the duties herein mentioned within the time prescribed.

It shall be the duty of the commission to examine personally all the unallotted lands within the reservation, and to list and classify the same into agricultural, grazing, swamp, and timber lands, showing in each case which, if any, of the same are irrigated lands. In a separate list shall be shown, also, all such lands as are chiefly valuable for minerals, or for reservoir sites, water-power or water-storage purposes.

In the classification of timberlands it shall appear whether the timber thereon has been sold and cut; whether the timber has been sold and is uncut; and, if sold, the dates, respectively, at which the sales were made and the prices paid to the Indians for such timber. The designation of areas of timberlands on which the timber has been sold shall be by the timber sales units, as advertised and described by the Indian Bureau.

All lands, and the improvements thereon, used for agency or administrative purposes shall be separately classified, described, and appraised.

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After completing its classification of lands and improvements, in conformity with the provisions of this act, the commission shall appraise the same at their cash value, in tracts not larger than six hundred and forty acres each, and shall show the estimated value of each tract separately.

Within one year after the date of its appointment the commission shall make a full and complete report to the Secretary of the Interior, setting forth, in convenient form, according to the provisions of this act, all data necessary to determine the quantity, quality, character, location, and reasonable value of all the unallotted lands, and the improvements thereon, within the reservation. The report so submitted to the Secretary of the Interior shall be printed and by him submitted to Congress at the beginning of its next session thereafter.

Thereupon it shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Interior, at such time and in such manner as Congress shall direct, to sell the property so classified and appraised, and to deposit the proceeds of sale, together with all other tribal moneys then on hand or thereafter accruing, to the credit of the members of the tribe as determined by the final roll hereunder made, to be segregated so that each of such members shall have to his credit an equal per capita share thereof, and shall receive in cash, or in bonds approved by the Secretary of the Interior and drawing interest at the rate of 5 per centum per annum, such per capita shares, to be held, controlled, and paid as Congress shall direct.

Any and all tribal assets the value or amount of which is not susceptible of ascertainment at the time of the sale or sales herein provided for shall, when determined and reduced to cash, likewise be segregated and deposited in the Treasury to the credit of the respective members of the tribe, and shall be paid to them per capita as Congress or the courts shall direct.

SEC. 13. There is hereby appropriated the sum of $50,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, from any funds in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the Klamath and Modoc Tribes and the Yahooskin Band of Snake Indians, not otherwise appropriated, for the purpose of making the classification and appraisal of unallotted lands herein provided for.

SEC. 14. All acts or parts of acts in conflict with the provisions of this act are hereby repealed.

SEC. 15. This act shall not take effect until ratified by a majority of the adult members of the tribe (over the age of eighteen years), to be ascertained and determined by the Secretary of the Interior, within ninety days after the passage of the act, in a manner to establish such ratification to his satisfaction and the satisfaction of the Klamath Tribal Council.

Senator FRAZIER. The one introduced by Congressman Butler?

Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir; a special committee being appointed by the general council.

Mr. CRAWFORD. What year?

Mr. WALKER. And the minutes of the special committee held at Beatty, Oreg., on March 15, 1928. This bears on the introduction of the final settlement bill. It shows the discussion and adoption. We have here the names of the special committee. This is from the Williamson district, Joseph Kirk, William Barkley, William Crawford—that is the dad to young Crawford here.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I want to say that has got nothing to do with this bill now before you. Those minutes were in 1928. Mr. Walker is down here with instructions from the general council and the business committee in 1931.

Senator FRAZIER. What is your idea in bringing this up, Mr. Walker, at this time?

Mr. WALKER. In support of the contention made by the petition which was signed opposing the incorporation bill. It will refer in this petition to opposition to the incorporation plan, this one being offered by the Klamath Indians as being the desire of the Klamath Indians in connection with the handling of their affairs.

Senator FRAZIER. What petition do you refer to?

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Mr. WALKER. A petition signed at the Klamath Agency on December 10, 1931, addressed to the honorable Secretary of the Interior, the Commissioner of Indians Affairs, and the Congress of the United States. It goes on to tell about the history of the whole thing relating to the two bills. I do not know what I will do when I go home if I do not present this as a matter on behalf of the Klamath Indians.

Senator FRAZIER. Do you want to put that in the record too?

Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir.

Senator BULOW. Is it your contention now that the Klamath Indians are against the McNary bill?

Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir.

Senator BULOW. They do not favor that bill?

Mr. WALKER. No; they do not.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Before the document is entered in the record I want to call your attention to the language in the petition on the third page:

We, the undersigned enrolled members of the Klamath, Modocs, and the Yahooskin band of Snake Indians, parties to the treaty of October 14, 1864, submit that whereas the conditions now prevailing all over our country, namely, unemployment, lack of credit, and so forth; that by order of the President of the United States the Klamath Indian timber has been closed to sale; that approximately $13,000,000 worth of Klamath Indian timber is under contract from which no great returns will be available, owing to lumber market depression now prevailing. We respectfully petition that the honorable Secretary of the Interior and the honorable Commissioner of Indian Affairs ask Congress for an appropriation of money for the support and maintenance of the said Klamath Indians and for such other purposes as may be needed. That the Klamath Indian delegates who are in Washington, D. C., are hereby instructed to urge the necessity of such appropriation of money. Said fund to be reimbursed to the Government of the United States from sales of timber or other property belonging to the said Klamath Indians.

Now that petition was signed by the Indians with the idea that they were going to get a lot of money. The man that drew this petition was against the corporation bill and he had this language inserted in his petition in order to get the Indians to sign the petition, and told them if they would sign the petition the delegates would get them a lot of money down here, would borrow several million dollars, and we would come back bringing them arms full of cash and dump it in their laps. That was the purpose of the petition in order to avoid the incorporation bill. If that language had not been in that petition you would not have gotten these Indians' signatures to this petition.

Senator FRAZIER. Let Mr. Walker continue.

Mr. WALKER. I want to make it known to the committee that personally I can not say very much more. I will enter here as a part of the record my standing, but as I said a while ago, I can not go home unless I present this as a part of the matter. I would request that this be inserted in the record.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. What do you mean by "this"?

Mr. WALKER. Here are the names of the parties I want to mention. Here is the special committee: Jim Johnson, Thomas Lang, Seldon Kirt, Joseph Ball, Mrs. William Skeen, William Crawford, F. Mitchell, John Lee Ball, J. L. Kirk, Watson Duffy, Harrison Brown, J. C. Riddle, Bid Riddle, D. Crain, H. Drew, W. Foster, E. Lynch,

116588—32—3

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David Chockoot, F. Lynch, T. Williams, and Sam Godowa, and there was included in the delegation myself and Mr. Crawford, Mrs. Crawford, and others, which would make about 30. They went over it section by section in this bill. We have a statement here of those who spoke on the bill. We also have a statement by Mr. Crawford in support of this bill which I am talking about.

Senator BULOW. Do you mean the memorial bill?

Mr. WALKER. No; the other bill.

Senator FRAZIER. The one by Congressman Butler?

Mr. WALKER. Yes; the one Congressman Butler introduced. Here we have the statement of all those who spoke for this bill and against it.

Senator FRAZIER. That was the meeting in 1928?

Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir; in 1928. Now, I am presenting that. The whole thing can be presented.

Senator FRAZIER. Of course, Mr. Crawford had put in the record of minutes of the meeting held last October, as I remember it.

Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. Which would counteract this old petition in 1928?

Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. We will put it in the record if you want it. I do not see any benefit to do so.

PETITION

KLAMATH AGENCY, OREG., December 10, 1931.

To the SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR.

The COMMISSIONER OF INDIAN AFFAIRS.

The CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES.

HONORABLE SIRS: For some time past the Klamath Indians of the Klamath Indian Reservation in Oregon have maintained a delegation in Washington, D. C., for the purpose of serving said Indians to urge the passage of such legislation as will promote the interest and welfare of the said Klamath Indians. During 1929-30 a delegation composed of Wade Crawford, his wife, Ida M. Crawford, and Luke Chester have been successful in securing enough votes to be elected as delegates to represent the said Klamath Indians as stated above. These delegates in 1929 assumed that since they represented said Indians and had secured such credentials that appeared to have been indorsed by the whole tribe, upon this assumption said delegates have tried to convince the committees in Congress that the Indians as a whole have approved the incorporation plan "as the best solution to Klamath Indian Reservation problem." That in addition to said incorporation the same delegates have tried to convince the committees in Congress that expenditure of tribal funds of the Klamath Indians, in maintaining the Klamath Indian Reservation, was mismanaged in a very large degree. That the sales of timber from the said Klamath Indian Reservation was not consummated to the best advantage for said Klamath Indians.

That the drafting of the resolutions for the guidance of the delegates in 1929, said committee composed of the following members of the said Klamath Indians: Wade Crawford, chairman; his wife, Ida M. Crawford; Thomas Lang, Watson Duffy, Luke Chester, Joseph Kirk, Elmer Hill, and Seldon E. Kirk, by Wade Crawford.

Thus it has been that such resolutions, permitting the delegation to act with powers of attorney for the said Klamath Indians, have been accomplished and Indians in connection with their tribal estate.

That at no time have the said Klamath Indians as a whole indorsed or approved of the incorporation plan, or the action of said Wade Crawford, his

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wife, Ida M. Crawford, and Luke Chester, the latter acting only in 1929 as a delegate to Washington, D. C., in the matter of trying to diminish the appropriation made by Congress of the United States of the funds belonging to said Klamath Indians, accruing to said Indians from sales of tribal timber. Said appropriations made to maintain said Klamath Indian Reservation in Oregon.

That the resolutions adopted and approved for the guidance of the delegates by the Klamath Indian business committee, dated December 6 and 7, 1931, contain, first, that (Resolution No. 1.) "the incorporation plan was the best solution to the Klamath Indian Reservation problem * * *. That the Klamath Indians desire to obtain an equity in the tribal property * * *."

That Resolution No. 12 contains power of attorney, authorizing said delegates of the Klamath Indians to enter into negotiation of agreements, drafting of legislation for the final consummation of the Klamath Indian Reservation, which includes authority to abrogate the Treaty of October 14, 1864, by and between the United States Government and the Klamath, Modocs, and Yahooskin Band of Snake Indians.

That the general council of the said Klamath Indians, held in November, 1927, approved resolutions which contain the same provisions as found in Resolution No. 1 and No. 12 of the business committee's resolutions dated December 6 and 7, 1931. That the resolutions approved by the general council in 1927 was designed to meet the demands of "the Klamath Indian relief bill" which the Klamath Indians indorsed by a majority of Indians signing an affirmative petition. Since that time no such approval has been granted by said Klamath Indians, notwithstanding the fact that the resolutions of the general council of 1927 was only approved by the said Klamath Indians for the purpose stated above. The subsequent resolutions approved by the Klamath Indians business committee for guidance of delegates have been resurrected and the resolution of the general council of 1927 was only approved by the said corporation plan which the delegation of 1929 and 1930, namely: Wade Crawford, his wife, Ida M. Crawford, in 1930, and Wade Crawford, his wife, Ida M. Crawford and Luke Chester in 1929, have represented to the authorities in Washington, D. C., that the said Klamath Indians have granted authority of such nature and purpose as found in resolutions approved December 6 and 7 at Klamath Agency, Oreg., by the said Klamath Indian business committee.

Resolution No. 9 contains provisions to turn the policing of the Klamath Indian reservation over to Klamath County in Oregon and the State of Oregon, which was done by the Klamath Indian business committee without the knowledge and consent of the Klamath Indians.

That the resolutions headed "For guidance of the Klamath Indian delegates," approved December 6 and 7, 1931, as a whole, does not command the united support of the Klamath Indians. The resolutions referred to above further appears on its face as if the subjects mentioned therein have been submitted and approved by the whole tribe and that the Klamath Indian business committee was unanimous in the support of the said resolution. Even this is not so, as Selden E. Kirk and Elmer Hill, members of the said business committee, were opposed to the said resolutions.

The foregoing statements of facts as they have occurred are related because in the future the Indians of the Klamath Indian Reservation in Oregon demand that before any legislation be considered looking toward a final consummation of the tribal estate or any movement against the policy growing out of our treaty stipulations of October 14, 1864 be changed, the said Klamath Indians be fully informed so that no misunderstanding of any subject might seriously jeopardize or injure the welfare and interest of said Klamath Indians.

We, the undersigned enrolled members of the Klamath, Modocs, and the Yahooskin Band of Snake Indians, parties to the treaty of October 14, 1864, submit that whereas the conditions now prevailing all over our country, namely, unemployment, lack of credit, and etc. That by order of the President of the United States, the Klamath Indian timber has been closed to sale. That approximately $13,000,000 worth of Klamath Indian timber is under contract from which no great returns will be available, owing to lumber-market depression now prevailing. We respectfully petition that the honorable Secretary of the Interior and the honorable Commissioner of Indian Affairs ask Congress for an appropriation of money for the support and maintenance of the said Klamath Indians and for such other purposes as may be needed. That the Klamath Indian delegates who are in Washington, D. C., are hereby instructed to urge the necessity of such appropriation of money. Said fund to be reimbursed to the Government of the United States from sales of timber or other property belonging to the said Klamath Indians.

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B. Jackson, secretary, called the special committee roll, that body consisting of the following:

Chiloquin, Williamson River district: Joe Kirk, William Barkley, William Crawford, J. Johnson, T. Lang, Seldon Kirk, Joe Ball, Mrs. William Skeen, Mrs. William Crawford, Ed Cookman, F. Mitchell, J. Lee Ball, J. L. Kirk, and Ross Beale.

Beatty district: W. Duffy, H. Brown, J. C. Riddle, Bid Riddle, D. Crain, H. Drew, W. Foster, S. Riddle, E. Lynch, D. Chocktoot, F. Lynch, T. Williams, and Sam Godowa.

Sam Godowa declined to serve on special committee, on the ground that he was busy working, therefore could not spare the time to serve. Chairman Riddle rejected the application, holding that the other members of the special committee were obliged to serve, being that the bill to be discussed was of vital interest to us all; therefore no one was excused.

S. Kirk in his speech on the bill raised the question of the bill's origin, holding that same originated here at Beatty, and therefore was not new, and should be gone into immediately. Why prolong discussion on something that you are already acquainted with? I suggest we get busy.

S. Riddle emphatically denied the origination of the bill here at Beatty.

L. Walker intervened at this point and dwelt on when and where the bill was originated; he saying that a bill of this nature was first spoken of in 1910, but no active action was taken until 1914, and this bill in hand is not identical with the original; therefore should be thoroughly discussed, section for section, that from all angles. We, the delegates, have brought this bill back to you for you to pass on. If this is not good enough, discard this and draft up another, but understand this, the time has come wherein we must pass some protective legislation if we are not successful in this. If we act in a body on this we are insuring success. I am proud to gaze into of the bill. It means the preservation of our financial interests for all time. Now let's get busy.

Wade Crawford motioned to open discussion on bill section by section. Seconded by B. Riddle. Motion adopted by entire committee.

L. Walker suggested that the secretary read the bill, section by section, as same is discussed. Suggestion adopted by committee.

L. Walker elected interpreter by entire committee.

S. Kirk elected assistant interpreter by entire committee.

the faces of the pick of our reservation and feel only toward the success section 1, saying: We have representatives who are awaiting our action, officials who are interested in our welfare and are ready to get behind our cause with us. Why? Because they know by the proofs we, the delegation, have given, that we have been unjustly dealt with. So let us act accordingly.

S. Kirk: Question.—What is the duration of office of the business committee?

Mrs. Ida Crawford: Duration of office of present council until this bill becomes a law; then the business committee becomes an official body, consisting of 11 persons elected by the adult members of the tribe; powers, authority, duties, compensation to be fixed by Klamath tribal council.

E. Lynch: I do not oppose and I will not be behind the bill, until I thoroughly understand its beneficial points, and ask that it be discussed.

L. Walker: Now do not miscontrue the bill. The bill begins under its heading for the relief of the Indians on the Klamath Reservation, and it is only an opening on the way toward a final settlement, and let us discuss it from that point of view.

D. Crain: You have heard the reading of section 1 of the relief bill. Now let us get our heads together and balance this section. Let us cooperate in this: Other than the question already raised on the section I see no reason why we should not adopt same.

Section 1.—No further remarks; interpreted by L. Walker. Pass on to section 2.

Section 2. Read; interpreted. No objections or questions. Pass on to section 3.

Section 3. Read; interpreted; and found wanting. Note section 3 must be modified. Pass on to section 4.

Section 4. Read; interpreted. No objections. No question. Pass on to section 5.

Section 5. Read; interpreted. Objections to this section by members of committee interested in section. Note this section must be modified. Pass on to next section.

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Section 6. Read; interpreted. Objections. Note No. 6 must be modified. Pass on to section 7.

Section 7. Read; interpreted. No objections; no questions. Pass on to next section.

Section 8. Read; interpreted. No objections; no questions. Pass on to next section.

Section 9. Read; interpreted. No objections; no questions. Pass on to next section.

Section 10. Read; interpreted. No objections; no questions. Pass on to next section.

Section 11. Read; interpreted. No objections; no questions. Pass on to next section.

Section 12. Read; interpreted. No objections; no questions. Pass on to next section.

Section 13. Read; interpreted. No objections; no questions. Pass on to next section.

Section 14. Read; interpreted. No objections; no questions. Pass on to next section.

Section 15. Read; interpreted. No objections; no questions. This section finished the sections of the bill.

The reading, interpretations, various remarks on bill, consumed five hours.

S. Kirk motioned that the committee recess for one and one-half hours for supper, resuming session at 7.30. Seconded by William Barkley. Adopted by committee.

NIGHT SESSION, BEGINNING 7.30 P. M., MARCH 15, 1928

L. Walker opened the night session with reading of letter from D. B. Henderson; letter informing committee of holding up of bill S. 2707; asking also as to action of committee on relief bill.

Before the committee's adoption of relief bill, there were various remarks by members of committee, commenting on bill in general.

Chairman S. Riddle advised the members to stick strictly on question in hand in their remarks, thereby saving valuable time.

J. Ball opened his remarks by offering an apology, saying he hoped that the members of the committee and those present would overlook his tardiness in attending our councils. The delegation has made every effort to pass measures for our benefit. They have put in considerable time on the bill they have here for our consideration, and I say this bill is worthy of our consideration. We have arrived at the point where we should adopt this, or some like bill, and I say if this isn't acceptable what do you want?

Joe Kirk: I feel that it is only just and right that we, the special committee, act in accord and harmony in our discussion of this bill. This method alone will insure its adoption.

S. Kirk: I want it understood that I am in favor of a final settlement. I feel that I am competent; but are the majority ready to meet an issue of the kind which means the handling of their final moneys. Feeling that the majority of my fellow tribesmen have not the ability to care for large sums of money, the question arises: Are we ready for this?

Wade Crawford: In reply to above statement, stressing on the work of delegation, the complications they were confronted with before the various committees at Washington, D. C., pointing out in their findings, that the losses of the Indians from 1911 to time of their findings was $400,000 and under the 8 per cent deduction law our loss for the past year was $50,000; now I hold that our financial losses alone should wake us up to the realization that it is time we made a final settlement, and in this bill we are presenting is a provision caring for the moneys of those that are incompetent. This provision preserved the moneys for all time, the same converted into United States bonds, held in the United States Treasury, drawing 5 per cent interest per annum. Now tell me what better security would you want for those that are incompetent? On top of this there is a hands-off string attached thereto; Indian Office, or any other party, can't lay hands on the money. In conclusion, if this bill isn't what you want, let's get together and draft another that will meet your approval.

J. Johnson: Asking into the method taken to care for our timber sold on contract running into a number of years.

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Wade Crawford: Reply to question. That the matter of timber contracts will be taken over by large bonding firms thereby converting our standing contracts into cash.

H. Brown: At the rate our tribal moneys are being expended, we must resort to some means to preserve our holdings. I feel that we are incompetent to continue on the present basis, and while we still have extensive holdings, why not get behind this instrument. If we are successful our financial interests are secured. Let us act; I fear the outcome if we do not.

J. Ball. There are a number of reasons why we should take this bill into careful consideration. For illustration; I'll cite this: Our Klamath Marsh unit was sold; that firm in turn resold it consuming timber, and still no timber cut. Politics was brought to bear on these contracts, waiving our rights from year to year. I say; we unite, concentrate our opinions on this bill. If we are successful our rights are adjusted. If not, we must find ways and means, and call for a just adjustment. I believe we would get action. I suggest that we, the committee, exchange opinions on the subject; some one of you may have ideas worthy of consideration. I am for any measure that's to our benefit.

Wade Crawford: We have exchanged opinions. Majority thus favor this bill in question. Now let's either reject or adopt this bill.

Barkley: Motion we adopt relief bill with slight adjustment. Seconded Ida Crawford. Adopted by committee.

Section 1. Adopted.

Section 2. Adopted.

Section 3. Adopted with the following adjustment: Strike out first three and one-half lines, and on last clause of said section 3 strike out first 19 words, or approximately first two lines, and insert in place thereof the following: "All allotments complying with the allotment rules of the Indian department with regards to timber thereon made, and not approved, prior to April 15, 1930."

Section 4. Adopted.

Section 5. Adopted with the following adjustment. "No definite decision reached therefor." Am letting section 5 remain in its present form.

Section 6. Adopted, with the following adjustment: Strike out the word "six" and in place thereof insert "one" and also strike out "and forty." It will then be understood, we reserved 100 acres for maintenance purposes, instead of 640.

Section 7. Adopted.

Section 8. Adopted.

Section 9. Adopted.

Section 10. Adopted.

Section 11. Adopted.

Section 12. Adopted.

Section 13. Adopted.

Section 14. Adopted.

Section 15. Adopted.

Relief bill adopted by committee.

Wade Crawford: We should make every effort to keep this bill in action. Have our attorney keep us in touch with its movement; and be ready at all times to send a delegate or delegation in its support.

L. Walker: We should have a council shortly. Purpose, to elect new councilmen.

B. Jackson: secretary, was authorized to call on our superintendent, L. D. Arnold and appoint date and place to hold said council for said purpose.

To defray expenses of typing of minutes, amount subscribed $8.03.

Dr. Crain: Motion to adjourn. Second, W. Duffy. Adopted by committee.

## COMMITTEE APPROVES REDUCTION

L. WALKER RECALLED—GAME MATTERS ARE GIVEN CONSIDERATION BY COMMITTEE

Six members of the Klamath Indian business committee meeting in regularly called session Tuesday after an all-day discussion late Tuesday afternoon passed a resolution urging the adoption of House bill 6684. The bill provides for re-duction of timber stumpage prices on the Klamath Indian Reservation at the descretion of the Secretary of the Interior in keeping with the market value of lumber and the best interest of the Indians. The business committee in their

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resolution urged that they be first consulted on all contract reductions so that they first could act.

A number of Klamath lumbermen who hold Indian timber contracts met with the business committee and urged that the committee lend their influence to get a reduction of stumpage prices so that the mills could operate and the Indians get their money.

Some lumbermen pointed out that they were buying private timber now at a price of $2 a thousand stumpage against $7 and $8 for the reservation timber. They further pointed out that if they could not get a price reduction they would be forced to abandon their contracts and forfeit their bonds.

Ralph W. Horan, Klamath Falls attorney, appeared before the committee as representative of the lumbermen and presented their case for them. Included among the group of lumbermen and operators were: E. A. Blocklinger, of the Chiloquin Lumber Co.; F. T. Horan, Forest Lumber Co.; Huntington Taylor, of the Crater Lake Lumber Co., Sprague River; J. Royal Shaw, of the Shaw-Bertram Lumber Co.; and A. P. Heip, of the Kesterson Lumber Co. All of these men spoke before the committee and pointed out the impossibility of continuing under the present stumpage arrangement.

Members of the committee of Indians were: Luke Chester, vice chairman, who presided; Ida Crawford, secretary; and Tom Lang, Boyd Jackson, Joe Kirk and Sim Riddle, members. The committee has been in session continu-ously since Tuesday. Among matters acted upon was the recall of Levi Walker, delegate at Washington for the tribe.

Klamath County Sportsmen's Association members appeared before the com-mittee asking that they reconsider their ruling against white men hunting and fishing on the reservation. The matter was laid on the table for future ref-erence. O. D. Matthews and Marion Barnes appeared for the sportsmen.

## THE END OF THE PER CAPITA

Where once Klamath tribesmen received more than a million dollars yearly from their timber sales the sum now has shrunk to many times less than that amount. The statement made by lumber operators who hold contracts on the reservation that unless some reduction in stumpage prices is made they (the operators) will be forced to withdraw and forfeit their contracts, strikes a warning note that should be heeded.

Klamath tribesmen, many of them old and unable to work, depend entirely upon their per capita payments each year to support themselves. With existing contracts forfeited we see the end of the per capita payment. Operators in the past have paid high prices for their stumpage. Now with the lumber market a cutthroat shoal upon whose deadly reefs hundreds of operators have struck this past 2-year period help must come from some source. The Indians stand to lose much of their timber if it is not cut. They not only lose the present benefits from the per capita payments, but they are losing their wealth in beetle-infested timber and overripe trees that should be taken care of now.

Ceasing operations on the reservation mean numerous drawbacks to this section and this county. In the first place, the direct reaction from forfeiture of timber contracts will be the sudden drop to nothing of Indian income, which means also the stopping of per capita payments. Then, too, the cessation of timber operations means the loss of much labor payroll in this section.

There are really three vitally interested groups in the present movement at a fair reduction on timber prices. First come the Indians, owners of the timber, and direct beneficiaries of all money which is paid for timber. Then come the operators, whose successful operations depend largely upon a favorable market for their lumber and a fair price for stumpage. Then the third great class is the mill workers and the tradesman. None can exist without the other. Each must have the other, his labor or his holdings, in order to get along under existing conditions. It is with this thought in mind that we point out to all interested parties that failure to come to a satisfactory agreement at this time would force forfeiture of contracts which in turn would mean no further per capita. It all means simply this—that if you kill the goose that lay's the golden egg, you're done.

Mr. CRAWFORD. The petition does not deal with that matter at all.

Senator FRAZIER. The petition will go in the record.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I want to say this: I have a letter from the Sec-retary of the Interior arguing against every section of the bill he is

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now talking about—that bill Mr. Butler introduced. For benefit to the committee I will submit it for the record. This is a letter to Senator McNary by the Secretary of the Interior.

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR,

Washington, June 11, 1928.

Hon. CHARLES L. MCNARY,

United States Senate.

MY DEAR SENATOR MCNARY: This will refer further to your letter of March 6 enclosing draft of a bill left with you by a group of Klamath Indians.

Section 1 would give the Klamath tribal council general authority over all reservation tribal matters under rules and regulations approved by the Secretary of the Interior. This would be consistent with section 463 Revised Statutes (sec. 1, ch. 1, title 25, Indians, United States Code), which provides that the Commissioner of Indian Affairs shall, under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior and agreeably to such regulations as the President may prescribe, have the management of all Indian affairs and of all matters arising out of Indian relations. The present authority of the tribal council is advisory only, and it is not believed that the council should be given any administrative authority in the control of reservation matters, as this would divide and weaken the responsibility for the conduct of tribal affairs.

Legislation is not necessary to create a business committee, which can be established under existing law by authority of the Secretary of the Interior.

Section 2 provides for a final roll of the members of the Klamath Tribe. This is not necessary, as the act of June 30, 1919 (41 Stat. L. 9; sec. 163, ch. 4, title 25, Indians, United States Code), authorizes the Secretary of the Interior to prepare and approve a final role of any Indian tribe for the segregation of the tribal funds under the act of May 25, 1918 (40 Stat. L. 591; sec. 162, ch. 4, title 25, Indians, United States Code).

Section 3 provides that no additional allotments of land shall be made and that each member of the tribe who has not received an allotment shall be paid $3,000 from the tribal funds as compensation therefor. The Klamath allotment rolls were closed on April 15, 1910. Under departmental rulings this had the effect of making the roll final, thereby excluding afterborn children; that is, we have no authority of law to make allotments of land on the Klamath Reservation to children born after the above date. Accordingly, no legislation would be necessary to prohibit further allotments; on the other hand, it would require the specific authority of Congress to open the rolls so as to make allotments to afterborn children. It would not be equitable to pay afterborn children $3,000 each from the tribal fund as a compensation for land which they did not receive, especially as the bill also provides that this shall not diminish their respective shares upon distribution of the tribal fund.

Section 4 requires the consent of the tribal council to the granting of rights of way for public roads through the reservation and the expenditure of tribal funds therefor. The act of March 3, 1901 (31 Stat. L. 1084; section 311, ch. 8, title 25, Indians, United States Code), authorizes the Secretary of the Interior to grant rights of way for public highways across tribal and trust-patent Indian land. It is now the practice to present such matters to the tribal council on the Klamath Reservation, which I am advised has given its consent thereto in every case. However, instances might arise in the future in which the council would not consent to the grant and where considerations of higher public policy would require that the Secretary of the Interior approve the application in spite of the refusal of the tribal council to agree, which he has authority to do under the law. It is now the policy of Congress to utilize tribal funds for general support and civilization purposes on the reservations, including the construction of roads, which constitute an essential factor in the welfare and progress of the Indians. It is not believed that the expenditure of tribal funds therefor should be left to the direction of the tribal council.

Section 5 provides that no additional irrigation projects shall be constructed from tribal funds without the consent of the tribal council; that no such funds shall be used for the maintenance and operation of existing systems; and that all former expenditures from tribal funds for irrigation purposes shall be repaid to the tribe.

It is not believed that the appropriation of tribal funds for irrigation purposes should depend on the consent of the tribal council. It can be stated, however,

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that this is very unlikely, as there is very little, if any tribal land which could be included in a new irrigation project.

The use of the tribal funds for the operation and maintenance of existing projects is in the nature of a loan to the allottees, against whom it is charged on an acreage basis. No action should be taken as to the repayment of tribal funds already used for such purpose at Klamath until receipt and consideration of the report of the commission which I appointed some time ago to make a study of Indian irrigation projects.

The suggested plan to distribute the cost on a valuation basis is not deemed practicable, as it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to handle the matter equitably in this way. The present plan of distributing the charges on an acreage basis over a period of 20 years is working satisfactorily and should not be changed.

Under section 6 not more than 640 acres of tribal land could be reserved for administrative purposes. This would seriously handicap our activities on the reservation, especially as to timber protection. No land is reserved for administrative purposes that is not actually required therefor in the interest of the proper and efficient handling of the affairs of the tribe.

We already have authority of law to sell abandoned agency and school building, and to deposit the proceeds in the United States Treasury to the credit of the tribe under the act of February 14, 1920. (41 Stat. L. 415; sec. 294, ch. 7, title 25, Indians, United States Code.)

The provision requiring the consent of the tribal council to the expenditure of tribal funds in the construction of additional quarters for employees would also seriously interfere with the proper administration of affairs on this reservation. The agency organization is maintained for the benefit of the Indians; the personnel must be adequately housed; and it would be impossible to obtain satisfactory employees without providing comfortable quarters. In view of this fact and of the large sums accruing annually from timber sales, it is not believed that the tribe should object to the use of a reasonable sum therefrom for necessary employees' quarters. This matter should be left to administrative discretion.

Section 7 requires that the Commissioner of Indian Affairs submit annually to the tribe a detailed account of tribal fund receipts and expenditures, together with an estimate for the ensuing fiscal year. The Indians can obtain information at the agency as to the tribal fund receipts and expenditures; hence there is no necessity of legislation requiring annually a statement in detail, which could be furnished, if deemed advisable, under existing law. Under the budget system it is not practicable to consult the Indians in advance as to expenditures from the tribal fund.

Section 8 directs the Secretary of the Interior to reimburse the tribal fund within two years for all collectible debts owing by the members of the tribe, after which no further loans shall be made therefrom. Under departmental regulations the Indians have six years to repay livestock loans and four years to repay those for other purposes. Hence it would be impracticable to collect all the outstanding indebtedness in two years.

The reimbursable plan has been one of the most important factors in the industrial progress of the Indians. The appropriation made by Congress is not sufficient to meet all the demands for such help; hence it is the policy to utilize available tribal funds therefor and save the appropriation for tribes which have no tribal money. Where, as at Klamath, the Indians have a considerable amount of tribal money, they should not object to helping the members of the tribe establish themselves on a self-supporting basis through the medium of reimbursable loans. This matter should likewise be left to administrative discretion.

Section 9 provides that no lease of tribal land shall be made, extended, or renewed for more than one year without the consent of the tribal council. The act of February 28, 1891 (26 Stat. L., 795; sec. 397, Ch. 12, title 25, Indians, United States Code), requires the consent of the tribal council to leases of tribal land. Hence there is no necessity for additional legislation of this nature.

Under section 10 all minerals on unallotted land would be reserved to the tribe. As there is practically no mineral activity on the Klamath Reservation, and as no allotments are being made, there is no necessity for this legislation at the present time. Should valuable minerals be discovered in sufficient quantities to justify, this matter could be given consideration if legislative authority is recommended to open the allotment rolls to afterborn children.

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Section 11 would confer jurisdiction upon the Court of Claims to adjudicate the claims of the Klamath, Modoc, and Yahooskin band of Snake Indians against the United States. These Indians now have a case in the Court of Claims under the jurisdictional act of May 26, 1920 (41 Stat. L. 623), which, so far as we know, includes all their claims up to the date of the petition. Hence there does not seem to be any necessity of further legislation with respect thereto.

Section 12 provides for the appointment of a commission to appraise the unalotted land and other tribal property, which shall then be sold and the proceeds, together with other tribal money then on hand or later accruing, paid to the Indians, so that each member of the tribe will receive an equal share.

In effect, this would practically wind up the tribal affairs of the Klamath Indians. The proposal is so revolutionary that I can not give it my sanction, aside from the administrative complexities involved. Under present conditions it would be difficult, if not impossible, to dispose of the tribal land except to the Government for inclusion in a national forest, and it is doubtful if Congress would be willing to make the necessary appropriation therefor. However, the bill requires that all shares be paid to the enrollees, thus making no distinction between competent and incompetent Indians, many of whom would likely spend the money in a short while and have nothing left to show for it.

In view of what has been said above, no comment seems necessary on Sections 13, 14, and 15 of the bill.

Very truly yours,

E. C. FINNEY, Acting Secretary.

MR. WALKER. The thing I had in mind was the letter will indicate we have a great problem, a great estate. This is not a horse deal, a horse trade, or something like that. I might use this illustration: If a farmer wants a horse on his ranch, he goes out. He goes to a place where he can get a horse. All right. He walks around the horse and examines him a little bit and does something with it. He finds it is all right. He will buy this horse. It suits him. It is much worse and more important to an estate where it is worth $30,000,000 should we go at it in a radical way and propose hasty legislation without the approval of the tribe who are interested in their affairs. I do not know.

Now that you have inserted that other matter I want to read you my letter to the people, or you can include it in the record. It deals with the subject. I will read the letter. It is as follows:

To the Klamath People:

In order to inform you about the present state of legislation affecting the Klamath Reservation, as one of your delegates, I herewith submit the following report:

The Interior appropriation bill: This act, after passing the House, went to the Senate, where it was under discussion, for a week or two, until a few days ago. The Senate failed to reach a conclusion and sent the bill back to the committee to redraft the same and to report it again, with a 10 per cent reduction on the total amount of the proposed appropriation.

Consequently, there will be nothing definite to report to you until after the whole bill has been worked over again by the Interior Department and by the Senate Indian Committee. This will probably take several weeks. Thereafter, the Senate will take the matter up again, and reconsider the same, in the light of the committee's report.

How much of the 10 per cent reduction required will be taken from Klamath Indian items can not be foreseen; but it is reasonably safe to say that the total appropriation out of Klamath tribal funds for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1933, will be reduced below the appropriation for the preceding year. This, of course, should be the case, in view of the large reduction of income to the tribal fund from reservation timber operations.

Grazing: As you are already informed, the Secretary of the Interior, after many hearings and long deliberation, decided to postpone the granting of grazing permits on the Klamath tribal lands for the present. I believe that it is his purpose, before acting further, to take steps to find out what are the wishes

of the Indians in the matter. Unfortunately, this means that our tribal fund is in danger of losing about $25,000 this year by reason of the cancellation of grazing permits, a loss we can ill afford to bear in these times of depression. I think that the members of the tribe should be prepared to express their views on this subject promptly, if called upon by the Secretary to do so.

Final enrollment legislation: The bill for final enrollment, introduced in the Senate at the request of Delegate Crawford, has been under consideration by the Senate committee, and I am informed that a favorable report has been adopted by the committee. What action the Senate will take on the matter remains to be seen. The bill has not been considered by the Indian Committee of the House. Therefore it is not possible at the present time to predict what chances this legislation has of passing at the present Congress. I am told that the legislation has not received the approval of the Secretary of the Interior.

The incorporation bill: This bill introduced in the Senate at the request of Delegate Crawford is pending before the Senate Indian Committee, which committee, I am told, is awaiting a report on the bill from the Secretary of the Interior. It is expected that the Senate committee will act on the bill at its next meeting. If it should act favorable, the bill will then go to the Senate Calendar and await action of that body. If the Senate should pass the bill, the measure will then go to the House and be referred to the House Indian Committee. Hearings thereon will doubtless be held by the House committee; and, because of the grave importance of this legislation to the Klamath Indians, I take it for granted that the hearings will be extensive and that the bill will receive careful and deep consideration by the committee. While I may be mistaken in my expectations, I am strongly persuaded that Congress will not commit itself to the passage of this incorporation bill until after full and complete examination and investigation of the subject. The proposed legislation involves such vast property interests and the welfare of so many Indians dependent upon the Government for protection, that I can not believe that the subject will be hastily disposed of. Moreover, I can not easily imagine Congress acting finally on the bill until after the wishes of a majority of the Klamath Indians are positively made known to the Government.

Final settlement bill: This bill, at my request, was introduced in the House on March 21, 1932, by Congressman Butler. The number of the bill is H. R. 10703. I am sending a number of copies, both of the incorporation bill and of the final settlement bill, to members of the tribe in the hope that both will be carefully studied and discussed by the tribe at large. As you will remember, the final settlement bill was formulated by the Klamath delegation at Washington in 1928. The delegation consisted of Levi Walker, chairman; Clayton Kirk, vice chairman; Ida M. Crawford, secretary; and W. D. Crawford. When the final settlement plan was referred to the tribe, in March, 1928, at a general council, both held at Williamsons River Church and at Beatty, it was accepted and indorsed practically without a dissenting vote. At the next session of Congress it was sidetracked for the incorporation bill by the 1929 delegation, consisting of W. D. Crawford, Ida M. Crawford, Celia Dufault, and perhaps Joseph S. Ball. This was done in spite of the fact that during the summer of 1928, at a general council, a resolution was adopted instructing the delegates, when elected to Washington, to advocate the passage of the final settlement bill. By reason of the foregoing facts, I considered it my duty to have this bill introduced in order that it might be considered by Congress along with the incorporation bill. And this, I expect, is what the Indian committees of the Senate and House will do.

It is reasonable to suppose that before Congress can be induced to pass either of these two bills it will require a definite, certain, and positive expression from the Klamath people as to their views and wishes in the matter; and I hope that the Klamath Indians will give careful, earnest study to the subject, so as to be prepared, when called upon, to express their views in no uncertain terms. The subject is of such vast importance to our people that no hasty action should be taken; and no legislation looking either to incorporation or to final settlement should be adopted until after a clear majority of the Indians have spoken on the subject.

It may be that our people, after they have been given full time to consider and to study the question, will not favor the passage of either bill. It may be that they will conclude that some plan better than either one of these two can be proposed. It may be that after deliberation, they will decide that, for the time being, it will be safer and wiser for the tribe to allow their

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property interests to remain longer under the control of Government supervision. Whether they decide to follow one course or another, my position is that the right of decision lies with them, and that they should not be hurried into the acceptance of legislation which they do not understand and which they have not been given full opportunity to study, and which in the end they may possibly have occasion to regret. Nothing that they have ever been called upon to do, throughout their whole tribal existence, has been so serious and important to them; and, as one of their delegates, I should regret the passage of either of these bills at this session of Congress, because I would feel that they had been hastily hurried into final action, without mature consideration.

Per capita payment: I am informed at the Interior Department that an arrangement is being made for a per capita payment of $150 in the month of April, and that a like per capita payment will be made in the fall, which will be increased in amount if the timber receipts justify.

That is my letter to my people on the whole subject. I view the whole estate question as a very important matter. Now I may be all wrong. I may be all wrong, but I got it off of my shoulders, as an old saying goes, and have passed the buck to the other fellow.

Senator BULOW. It is your contention that the Indians themselves have never passed on this?

Mr. WALKER. What is that?

Senator BULOW. You claim the Indians have never passed upon this?

Mr. WALKER. The incorporation bill?

Senator BULOW. Yes

Mr. WALKER. No; it has been presented to them about six times. I attended three of the meetings, three times. Because of different questions raised from the opposite side of the House, Mr. Crawford got mad and he went out. Three times I know of he packed his papers and told his people he was not going to represent them. Finally we induced him to come back, so we have never reached any agreement on it and nothing has been done that I know of. It is true that the business committee, of which Mr. Crawford is chairman, has always urged it, but you will notice in the round-table discussion, even the business committee was outvoted. So I do not know where I am at at this time.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Do you know what body he referred to which had agreed to the incorporation bill at the date in October, 1931, that he mentions—what group?

Mr. CRAWFORD. October 6 and 7.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Was that one of the meetings?

Mr. CRAWFORD. That is the meeting of the business committee.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. It was a business committee meeting?

Mr. CRAWFORD. On October 30, 1931, the general council passed a resolution.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. When did this round-table conference come?

Mr. WALKER. December 13, I think.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. I thought you said October 13.

Senator FRAZIER. December 10 was the date of this petition you spoke of?

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. What I was wondering was whether the round-table discussion came before or after the meeting that Mr. Crawford alludes to of the business committee that voted in favor of the corporation bill.

Senator FRAZIER. October 19, 1931, is the date on here.

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Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Then the business committee meeting came after these meetings of the round table; is that it?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. That is a meeting you referred to, not a general meeting of the tribe?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I also referred to the action of the general council in this matter.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. What date was that held?

Mr. CRAWFORD. October 30, 1931.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. What date was it?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I submitted the minutes.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. That meeting was before these round-table meetings, was it?

Mr. CRAWFORD. It must be.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. At that meeting of the general council the Indians favored the incorporation bill?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes; they did.

Mr. CRAWFORD. How many Indians were present at that meeting?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I do not know. Sixty or seventy. The usual attendance at those general meetings.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. I must have misunderstood Mr. Walker. Did you say you did not know of any general meeting?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Walker was there in person at the meeting.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Were you there, Mr. Walker?

Mr. WALKER. There was a general council called prior to the adoption of these minutes. Soon after that they decided to send a delegation to Washington.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Did that general council pass any judgment for or against the incorporation bill?

Mr. WALKER. No; they refused to do that.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Then we have conflicting statements here.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I think the thing will be corrected by the minutes. The minutes will show for themselves.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. I was trying to get it straightened out in our minds now.

Mr. WALKER. Here is what Mr. Crawford referred to. There was a general council called, and it was held at Sprague River. There was somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 people present when the council began and Mr. Crawford was selected chairman, Mrs. Crawford was selected the secretary, and some discussion took place. They got into a bad humor there, there was a bad house. That has been the case all along. Whenever Mr. Crawford is in any council it creates a bad feeling. I do not know why, but that was the case in this instance. So they started to discuss this matter of the incorporation bill all right. Well, a resolution was introduced to put in instructions as to one of the matters for the delegation to take up here. We asked the chairman if it was not possible to get a larger number of Indians together so they could express themselves as to their wishes. Mr. Crawford refused to do that, and being the chairman, of course, we could not do anything.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I would like to explain that there.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Let him finish.

Senator FRAZIER. Yes. Let him finish with his statement.

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Mr. WALKER. So they hurried this thing through. They wanted to get this adoption from the house. Mr. Crawford had his whole support there. The other side did not come, and the reason for that was that the people were getting away from councils because Mr. Crawford had made a lot of trouble for them. Every time he would get there somebody would quarrel, and several times down there, at Sprague, for instance, at one time, there was nearly a fight. They were talking for each side, so it was very disagreeable. They rushed this resolution through. Crawford had 18 people on his side, Mrs. Crawford making the eighteenth one, the secretary. The other side had 16. So because of their bad feeling they just disbanded and went away and left their own people in the council. So that was the record of the general council.

Now, in reference to the stand I am taking in this matter. I am not taking a very active part in reference to either one of them, but my contention is can't we get together, the Klamath Indians, and work out legislation which will protect our estate, conserve our estate? We are equally interested in the affair, no matter who does it. We can come to the bureau now. They are charged with the duty of taking care of the property under acts of Congress. They, too, have to come in because they carry the responsibility; so does Congress.

Senator FRAZIER. Do you think the Klamath Indians want a change over the present system, want to get away from the present system of control out there?

Mr. WALKER. Yes; they would be willing to make some change, but I am not able to say that they want to make a radical change. I might say in addition to that that we are in a very bad position on the Klamath Reservation. You might consider that we are intelligent men in a small way, but when you come to do business transactions where it involves millions of dollars we would hesitate a little bit in trying to do something in reference to it—that is, where we do it ourselves. This opinion is received from experience in the past. We have upon the Klamath Reservation in the past received lots of money. Up to the present time they have not got it. It shows an incompetency of a person or several persons. If a man receives from $12,000 to $20,000 and he has not got anything to show for it, why, there must be something wrong somewhere. In other words, we are not trained to handle a business. We have not reached that stage, but I hope the time will come when we will be able to take care of ourselves and handle business. On the other hand, we look around all over the country. We see corporations going under, associations going under, clubs going under, different organizations going under, and we hesitate a little bit and say, "Well, if the trained mind can not carry through with the propositions how can we do it? On the other hand, I will leave the matter to the tribe, because if they did make a mistake then they can not blame anyone else; but it takes three parties to make an agreeable legislation to take care of the estate of the Klamath Indians.

Senator FRAZIER. Anything further?

Mr. WALKER. That is all I can say.

Mr. CRAWFORD. I would like to explain myself here in regard to some of the statements Mr. Walker has made about me. This puts me in a rather embarrassing position; that is, the attitude Mr. Walker

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has taken in regard to the bill and other measures that we have taken up since we have been sent here as delegates. Mr. Walker has not carried out the resolution that he was instructed to as a delegate after he was elected. So since the Indians have received the record here they have found that Mr. Walker has not supported the resolution that the Indians have sent him down here with. So I will read a resolution passed by the Indians in their last meeting on April 12.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Is that the tribal business committee?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes. [Reading:]

Whereas this committee did on the 12th day of January, 1932, instruct Levi Walker, one of the delegates in Washington, D. C., to carry out the instruction as set forth by this committee as of November 6-7, 1931, which authority for instructing delegates was carried out according to proper procedure and authority vested in the committee; and

Whereas the records of the congressional committee in Washington, D. C., prove that the said Levi Walker has failed to carry out the instructions as set forth by this committee; and

Whereas the said records will prove that the said delegate has supported the Bureau of Indian Affairs, in the Interior Department supply bill, in the effort to secure excessive and unjust appropriations for agency administration out of the Klamath tribal funds; and

Whereas the efforts of Delegate Walker have been directed to secure leases to outside sheepmen over the business committee's specific directions and resolution * * * in opposition thereto; and

Whereas the said delegate has had introduced in Congress bills that he was not instructed by the committee to support; and

Whereas one of the said bills does seek to pay to the said delegate an additional amount of money over the sum agreed to by this committee; and

Whereas information has reached this committee that Delegate Walker did lend his support to the passage of H. R. 6684 and S. 2635, in conflict with the action of this committee thereto; Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the pay of $8 per day to Delegate W. Walker be discontinued upon proper notification being given him of the action taken by this committee. Said notification to be sent the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the said Delegate Walker.

The previous question was called.

It was moved and seconded that the previous question be voted upon.

Carried four to nothing.

The previous question was voted upon (resolution to discontinue pay to Levi Walker) and carried four to nothing.

The business committee has recalled Mr. Walker for the action he has taken here in regard to appropriations, the matter of grazing, and for introducing the bill that he has.

I just wanted to explain further, Mr. Walker has cast a reflection on me, in that I created a lot of trouble at home in regard to councils and one thing and another, denying people a fair representation, and so forth, in reference to the meeting of October 30, 1931. A notice was posted by the superintendent that every member of the tribe had a right to attend that meeting if they so desired. There were six days' notice posted, and anyone that wanted to go to that meeting had the privilege of going and because there were not two or three hundred people there it was not my fault, the superintendent's fault, or anybody else's fault; and at that meeting here is the resolution that the general council passed. It was moved and requested that the delegates shall support the incorporation plan for the Indians of the Klamath Reservation as a final solution of the reservation problems.

Those are actually the records of the Indians taken last fall.

116588-32-4

["KLAMATH INDIAN CORPORATION", "48", "I want to say furthermore in regard to the Indians getting together on any legislation: I do not believe the Indians will ever get together 100 per cent on any legislation that will be submitted, for the simple reason that we have got bureau Indians out there; Indians that we consider Indian Bureau Indians; that through some little, petty favors they have abandoned their tribe and are supporting the Indian favors they have abandoned their tribe and are supporting the

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the full burden of taxation at once. There is no logic in tying the tax proposal up with the incorporation plan. To bring it in is only to have the effect of frightening the Indians away from the plan, and this plan ought to be considered on its merits wholly, whether it is a good plan or not, without respect to the factor of taxation. We have only to assure ourselves that the plan does not make any change in the status quo regarding taxation, that the power to tax or not to tax remains in Congress as now. It is quite clear that the matter is kept in status quo by the very language of the bill as drawn.

Now, I desire to call attention to section 7, because that section indicates the far-reaching character of the bill on behalf of all Indians. It is the section which permits the Indians who are owners of allotments, allotments held in trust, to relinquish their allotments back to the tribe under certain conditions. In other words, it contemplates the recapture by the tribe of land now segregated into individual trust allotments. The provision covers land of two classes, land belonging to the original allottee, and heirship land which has passed through descent from the original allottee and which is normally put up and sold at auction by the Government. All of us are very familiar with the fact that the most difficult, the most baffling, and the most crushing problem in the whole Indian field is the allotment problem. It is a situation that no living man is responsible for, and the various allotment acts and their amendments have brought it about. More than half of the whole area now remaining of the Indian country is split up into allotments in severalty. Allotment under these acts created in the Indians a vested right under trust, a vested right in an individual parcel of land. There arose the problem of what to do with the land after the allottee died and it became necessary to amend the law so that the land is sold unless it can be equally partitioned, or in the event one of the heirs is competent. We therefore have the condition of the rapid alienation of the Indians' allotted land during the trust period, and the problem is how on earth can we reverse the process and stop the alienation and recapture the allotted land.

From the point of view of the organization that I am connected with, the very idea of tribal incorporation and of the institution of an incorporation scheme took its origin in an effort to solve the problem of what to do with the allotted land, how to stop this disinheritance of the allotted Indians. Obviously what has to be done is to provide some means by which allotted land can be gathered up into larger bodies, operated by groups of Indians, and reallocated according to the needs of to-day as contrasted with the supposed needs of 30 years ago when it was originally parceled out. We have to work back into some sort of a scheme like they have in Canada and in the unallotted New Mexico pueblos, which are corporations, and such as we encounter in the new organizations of the Indians in Mexico, whereby an individaul has his allotment is secure in the use of it, and owns his improvements, and can not be deprived of it as long as he uses it. He can will it to his offspring. But if he quits using it or the family dies out or if the offspring does not want the land, then the land can be brought back to the tribal estate for real allotment. From this point of view, section 7 is possibly more important than any other section of the bill, more important because it deals with a greater

amount of Indian property and a greater number of Indians, if it were applied to the whole country. The bill becomes an enormously important proposition when applied likewise to all the tribal property. It deals with the future of all the Indians who have any equity in the tribal estate.

I just wanted to express that point of view about the bill.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. That is a very interesting point. You are bringing about two distinctive types of reservation, those that have surplus tribal funds, such as the Klamaths, out of which it would be possible to make purchases, and thus bringing back to the tribe these lands; secondly, reservations that have no such fund which would be available for such purpose.

Mr. COLLIER. That is a distinction in fact.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. And a very real one.

Mr. COLLIER. Very real.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Because the problem is just as real as cases where there are not such funds.

Mr. COLLIER. And more acute.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. To solve that, we have been proposing and have been baffled by the Budget, a fund to be set up by the Government to be drawn upon to purchase back land to the tribe in order to be available again for resale or for other uses. Now, is that not necessary?

Mr. COLLIER. Absolutely necessary.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. In cases where the tribe itself has not the funds to make the purchase?

Mr. COLLIER. Obviously some form of credit has to be created in order to enable the repurchase of the land. It might be a variety of credits. There is needed an adequately large revolving fund, where corporations exist, assuming we have them, which might be loaned to the corporation to buy back the allotted lands, or otherwise it might be loaned to credit unions of Indians who would buy back the land and hold it together.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. That problem could be met by other devices than the corporation device. A corporation is one way that incidentally might make that solution of the problem practical?

Mr. COLLIER. The fiscal problem of where to get the money to recapture this land has to be met otherwise, but the incorporation plan provides a permanent mechanism through which groups of Indians could reacquire allotted land and could then handle it in a flexible, businesslike way.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Similarly, any tribal fund could do it in the same way, could it not?

Mr. COLLIER. Yes; tribal funds could be used. You touched on the question of credit. Away back in 1913 the then Acting Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Mr. Abbott, came up before the House and Senate committees and pointed out that unless a businesslike system of credit and a generous system of credit could be provided for to the allotted Indians, there was no hope for them to succeed on the land or hold the land. No attention was paid to him then, and year after year has gone by with only a negligible amount of reimbursable money available. It is possibly the greatest fault in our whole system that we have not been able to extend credit either to tribes of

Indians who have no funds or to individuals or groups.

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Mr. SCATTERGOOD. An attempt has been made.

Mr. COLLIER. But it has been utterly inadequate. To come back to the incorporation plan of course, at the Klamath the proportion between the value of allotted areas and the value of tribal areas is small. There the predominant wealth is a tribal wealth. Section 7 does not appear to be very important in this bill as applied to the Klamaths, but if you shift to the majority of the reservations precisely the opposite situation holds good, and therefore, I would urge that section 7 be carefully studied and perfected, because if an incorporation bill is adopted it ought to be made a structural plan that with minor adaptations could be applied in successive reservations.

I know that the committee's time is short, and I shall not point out other things that I intended to, but I do want to say this. The Indian defense groups are not responsible for this bill. We believe in it. We recognize it is defective in a lot of minor particulars, such as Senator Steiwer pointed out, principally matters of language that could be straightened out in a single day by a competent legislative adviser. While we are not responsible for the bill, we have given continuous attention to the subject for a good many years and we are convinced that there is no legislation pending before Congress, and that there is no plan of legislation, which is of as much importance to the Indians, and in the long run as inescapable, as this plan. It would be a great service to the Indians if this committee could go forward to the point of being able to report at this session a technically adequate measure, no matter whether it could be passed or not, as a basis for the planning of future things by this and the next administration.

Senator FRAZIER. Mr. Commissioner, have you any statement?

Mr. RHOADS. You have our report and the Secretary's report already. We have a brief memorandum which Mr. Scattergood might read.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. There is a letter to the chairman by Secretary Wilbur dated March 31; then a memorandum of the Secretary, together with memorandum of the commissioner to the Secretary.

Senator FRAZIER. Those will be placed in the record.

(The documents referred to above are as follows.)

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR,
Washington, March 31, 1932.
Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs,
United States Senate.

Hon. LYNN J. FRAZIER,
Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs,

Sincerely yours,

RAY LYMAN WILBUR, Secretary.

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In the long run, no satisfactory plan can be worked out that does not within a period of years bring the Indian into the control of his property on the basis of the ordinary citizen, adding to his present "rights" of citizenship, the "responsibilities" of citizenship and of ownership of property, including the payment of taxes. The permanence of any plan which relieve the Indian's land of taxation is a definite barrier to his adjustment and amalgamation into the general public. Sound policy requires that the activities of the Indian Office should be directed to freeing the Indian of his restrictions as rapidly as he can be educated and trained adequately to care for himself and his property.

To give the Indians of the Klamath Reservation control of their own affairs and their own property would seem to me to require the following steps:

RAY LYMAN WILBUR.

Memorandum for the Secretary.

The corporation idea is one of several suggestions being made for the solution of the general question of the management of Indian tribal matters and the disposition of tribal assets, relative to which we have given a great deal of study. It is a plan which has apparent merit and which we have approached with open minds but concerning which, from a practical standpoint, many difficulties arise. Frankly, we do not yet see a solution to these difficulties. In reaching a solution for the Klamath Tribe we must keep in mind that other groups in other States are reaching the same degree of competency, and similar measures will have to be provided for them. The probability is that whatever measure is passed by Congress for the Klamaths will be followed closely in the

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other cases. It is desirable, therefore, that we seek the solution which might be a worthy precedent to follow in these other cases as they arise. We have a sympathetic understanding of the desire of the Klamath and other Indians to control their own affairs. We hope some way may be found to confer this control by gradual steps in order to lessen the dangers that may arise due to the fact that the boards of directors appointed will necessarily be composed of men who have had limited opportunity to acquire experience in the particular duties and obligations which they will be called upon to fulfill.

*Taxes*.—If the title to these tribal assets is lodged in any agency rather than the Federal Government, can such property be made exempt from taxation under State law?

*Law and order*.—Would the corporation assume the responsibilities of a municipality relative to law and order, education, health, and poor relief? If no taxes are paid on tribal property, will State and county governments be willing to assume jurisdiction?

*Authority of the corporation*.—Are the powers, duties, and authorities of the corporation defined clearly enough in sections 4 and 5? May it borrow money? May it pledge its assets as securities? What will happen if the operations of the corporation should incur a loss? Can safeguards be provided relative to buying stocks in private corporations outside of the reservation? Can privately owned lands be condemned when needed for schools, roads, and other community purposes?

*Overhead expenses*.—How may increased overhead costs and administrative costs be prevented in consideration of the fact that a board of directors and a board of supervisors are provided, both of which will require salaries for the members and for their staffs?

*Future Government responsibility*.—If through unforeseen circumstances the tribal assets become dissipated, will the Federal Government wardship over the members of the tribe continue and will the Government become obligated to provide gratuities for their subsistence?

*Existing contracts*.—Can existing contracts with private individuals or corporations be transferred without the consent of the contractors?

Several concrete suggestions have been made offering ideas of those who have given a great deal of thought to the problem. However, we have not as yet evolved a plan that altogether meets the situation. The Indians are reaching a point in their development when they should have a considerable hand in the management of their affairs. On the other hand, as long as the Secretary of the Interior is charged with the responsibility, it is felt that he should exercise a check on the recommendations and acts of the tribal representatives who are given definite tasks to perform. The Indian Office has a modified plan not yet fully developed which we would like to submit to the committees of Congress for criticism and suggestions. It is realized that Congress is vitally interested in this matter and that the committees of the Senate especially have given much time and thought to tribal matters and would possibly desire to collaborate with the bureau in this matter.

For two or three years past the corporation idea has been studied with more or less concentration, and, as above stated, it has fascinated us with its possibilities looking toward a relinquishment of the trust which the Government exercises over the Indians, but we do not believe that the incorporation of all Klamath affairs, at least in the form this bill presents it, is the solution.

C. S. RHOADS, Commissioner.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. There is a supplementary memorandum that Mr. Rhoads suggest I read, which is as follows:

MEMORANDUM ON PROPOSED INCORPORATION OF INDIAN PROPERTIES, PARTICULARLY AS PROPOSED IN S. 3588

Relative to the Klamath Corporation bill (S. 3588), we are studying it in view of many practical difficulties raised by the proposal, particularly those relative to taxation, to the use of money held in trust for minors, etc., and to how far the corporation may go in pledging the tribal assets as securities,

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remembering that all Klamath property, real and personal, under the plan suggested in the bill, is to be held in trust by the United States.

There is some confusion in the wording of the bill which has been developed at this hearing. That confusion should be cleared up with regard to the matter of taxation.

We have in mind also that the members of the tribe are apparently far from agreement on this bill. We have on file a petition signed by over 200 members asking that an incorporation bill be not enacted.

We have also before us for consideration H. R. 10703, introduced by Mr. Butler at the request of a delegate of the tribe here in Washington which proposes an entirely different plan for the Klamath settlement. We understand that this plan was approved in 1928 by formal vote of the tribe. We have no information to show that S. 3588 has been submitted to a tribal vote.

Before any law is passed which is as far reaching in its effects as is this incorporation bill or H. R. 10703, the matter should be presented to the members of the tribe for consideration and an expression of their opinion. A month or so before such a vote is taken several meetings should be held in various parts of the reservation where the proposal could be presented and discussed. This would give ample time for the members of the tribe to discuss it among themselves between the time of such meetings and the final vote.

We are attaching a memorandum containing suggestions for a Klamath tribal association made by Mr. Clyde M. Blair, Superintendent of the Klamath Reservation, in March, 1932. It is to be understood that it is tentative, but we feel that with it as a basis, and with suggestions taken from the bill under consideration, a new bill can be written that will meet the principal objections in S. 3588.

Now that proposal of Mr. Blair's I do not think has ever been brought before any committee of Congress, but it was what we referred to in the report that we made that we would like to informally discuss with perhaps a subcommittee which you might appoint, sitting around a table with the Klamath Indian delegates and ourselves, and see whether or not there is virtue in the proposals. Perhaps I might read this just to make it a matter of record.

These are suggestions for a Klamath tribal association made by Mr. Clyde M. Blair, Superintendent Klamath Reservation, in March, 1932:

1. That an association be formed of all persons now on the roll of the Klamath Indian Reservation of Oregon to be called the Klamath Tribal Association and authorized under the laws of the State of Oregon.

2. Control and ownership of all tribal property now belonging to the Indians of this reservation shall be vested in the association. (This does not mean allotted property.)

3. Persons on the roll will each be issued 10 shares of stock in the association.

4. All members having been granted free patents to their allotments or who are considered competent to manage their own affairs will be given full control of their stock, and thereby relinquish all claim to tribal affiliation except as herein provided. All others will have their stock held in trust by the Government. A middle group may be given control of a few of their shares to test their competency.

5. The board of directors will consist of 13 directors; one director representing each 100 persons in the association or major fraction of 100. Those holding their own shares shall elect their own directors but those having their shares held in trust will be represented by directors appointed by the Government.

6. Officers and managers with appropriate salaries and terms shall be elected at a regular meeting of the board of directors. They shall have full power to manage and operate the property but accountable to the board of directors.

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acquired by the association. The agency, therefore, will have no official connection with the association.

8. Dividends shall be declared twice each year to all shareholders. Dividends for all trust members shall be paid to the superintendent in charge of the agency, to be placed to the credit of the members and disbursed to them under Indian Office regulations. Dividends to all others shall be paid direct and in full.

9. Fifty per cent of all gross income shall be issued as dividends to the members.

10. Twenty-five per cent of all gross income shall constitute a maximum amount from which appropriations may be made by Congress for the operating expense of the association and the agency.

11. Twenty-five per cent of all gross income shall be set aside as a fund to be used to purchase the interest of any adult person in the association having control of his own shares who desires to withdraw or sell out his interest.

12. The sale of shares in the association is limited to an exchange among the members, sale to the association itself, and to the Federal Government.

13. In the event of favorable settlement, to the Indian claimants, of the suits now before the Court of Claims, the money recovered shall be distributed on a per capita basis to all persons who are the original holders of shares in this association when formed.

14. Land and property of the present agency headquarters and at Yainex shall be available for the exclusive use of the agency as long as needed. The association shall have headquarters elsewhere.

15. All persons born since April 15, 1910, shall be granted full control of their shares when they reach their twenty-fifth birthday. Those who are children of trust Indians may be given control of their shares gradually in order to determine their ability to manage their affairs wisely.

That is all I wish to say, except to reiterate our suggestion that if you could appoint a small subcommittee of people with some legal knowledge, perhaps they could sit down with us and work this thing out. We would like very much indeed to see what could be done. I thank you.

Senator FRAZIER. It is now 5 o'clock. I think we better adjourn and we will take the matter up some time later on.

(At 5 o'clock the committee adjourned.)