NBC TODAY

FRIDAY, JUNE 21, 1985

21

President Reagan said Thursday that American patience has just about run out, as acts of terrorism in Beirut and El Salvador frustrate the American people.

Dr. Henry Kissinger knows all about diplomatic frusta
--frustration. We have lossoaed him in, this morning.

And, Dr. Kissinger, the President is talking tough. Is this
the time for that?

HENRY KISSINGER: Yes. I agree. I agree with what the President said at his press conference, and I agree with what --with his subsequent statements. I think he is right not to negotiate, and he's right not to offer concessions. And unless the people who have the hostages feel some pressure, they have no incentive to give up the hostages. They can get them on television, every day. They can make propaganda. They can humiliate us. And unless we're giving them an incentive to release them, it may drag on and on and on. And I think the President did the right thing in saying what he did.

GUMBEL: Do I hear in there an unspoken complaint about the
way the press is covering this?

KISSINGER: No. I think the press has a very difficult problem here. It is a news story. This is not something where the press is being nihilistic or sensational. On the other hand, the press is being used by the hijackers to convey the hijackers' message.

I think when this is over, the media might con -- might discuss among themselves whethere there is some self-restraining ordinance possible, where hijackers are not put on and any event staged by hijackers is not put on.

But under present circumstances, I don't think the press
--the media has any choice.

GUMBEL: Yeah. I was about to say, I mean, what option
--what other option (OVERTALK)...

KISSINGER: No, you have no choice. You have no choice.
It's a tragedy. I am not blaming the media for doing it.

(C)

BC TODAY

FRIDAY, JUNE 21, 1985

22

But we have to recognize that what these hijackers are doing is being inevitably hyped by the media, which is doing what the hijackers want.

GUMBEL: Um-hmm. You said (OVERTALK)...

KISSINGER: If I were head of NBC News or of any of the other networks, my duty would be to report what is going on.

GUMBEL: You certainly must be aware that some of those who are criticising us are also criticising people like you. They say that former officials coming on and talking what should (OVERTALK)...

KISSINGER: (OVERTALK) that's absolutely right. It is -- my own view is that, by indicating that a stronger line is possible, we are either supporting the President when he takes a strong line, or we are showing the hijackers that there are people who might not be as patient.

GUMBEL: Um-hmm?

KISSINGER: In my view, that can only help. None of us have any intention of rattling the people who are executing our policy, and I know how difficult it is, and I know how painful these choices are.

GUMBEL: Let me ask you about some of this tough talk we're hearing out of Washington. If we're talking about proportionate response after the fact, if I'm holding the hostages and I know they're going to hit me the minute I let them go, why would I let them go?

KISSINGER: Well, you know, you hear a lot of talk out of Washington. The major problem, as I see it, in Washington is that not everybody is following the line that the President is taking and that you hear a lot of mumblings around, about concessions and about dialogue. And I heard somebody say yesterday, The President says no negotiation, but that doesn't exclude talking.

GUMBEL: (LAUGHS)

KISSINGER: Well, you know, that doesn't fool many people. It certainly doesn't fool -- certainly it doesn't fool the key people. That's a problem.

TODAY

FRIDAY, JUNE 21, 1985

23

You have two strategic choices in a crisis like this. One is to begin acting very ominously from the beginning, and indicate that your patience is progressively wearing thin. The other one is to sit tight, be calm, not rattle the cage, and hope that the -- that, by a show of reasonableness, you convince the hijackers that you mean well, and that, for that reason, they --well, at least you create the atmosphere in letting them go. Then, there is a position in between -- to say we can't do anything while they have the hostages, but will hurt them, later.

I am sure that one of the demands of the settlement will be no retaliation.

GUMBEL: Um-hmm? One hostage, Peter Hill, said of the Shiites, in that news conference yesterday -- I am quoting him, -- They're hostages -- speaking of the Shiites -- we're hostages. The world press was up in arms when all this happened. Why don't you guys get on their back, -- talking of the Israelis?

How do you respond to something like that?

KISSINGER: I respond to it: If anybody in the world who thinks an injustice is being done to them can capture 50 Americans, kill one of them, beat up the others, humiliate and cause anguish to the families, as we have seen on television, here, so that some third party redresses an injustice that he feels, Americans are going to become the whipping boys for every crisis all over the world.

If this were an issue between Israel and the hijackers, then it should be played out by -- between Israel and the hijackers, by whatever methods are appropriate. Here, innocent Americans are being kidnapped for the situation in which America played absolutely no role. This is the issue.

GUMBEL: You saw the published report this morning that the deal has been struck, or is in the works, that, the minute the hostages are let go, the 770 Shiites being held will let go.

KISSINGER: That is my impression.

GUMBEL: Do you think that's possible?

KISSINGER: My impression is that something like that is being worked out.

TODAY

FRIDAY, JUNE 21, 1985

24

GUMBEL: Through who?

KISSINGER: I judge that, by the body language, through people who will afterwards then be able to say they didn't negotiate, but it managed to come about by some sort of immediate conception. But...

GUMBEL: (LAUGHS)

KISSINGER: ...I am sure messages to that effect are going back and forth through third-part intermediaries (OVERTALK)...

GUMBEL: So, the details are there. What we're involved in (OVERTALK) is one of face-saving?

GUMBEL: Um-hmm?

KISSINGER: No. I think that you have the problem that Berri may not be able to deliver. I am sure that the Isrealis are very pained by this. They are paying the price for the -- we are taking the position that we are not making any concessions, but they must -- if they wanted to release the Shiites, it must have been as an act of generosity, so that they could have a better relationship with the Shiites, afterwards, or in response to good Shiite behavior. That opportunity has now gone, so that, in a way, only settlement the Israelis are making the concessions on our account.

GUMBEL: Quickly: You told me Tuesday you thought this would not be a long-drawn-out affair. You still feel that way?

KISSINGER: I still feel that way.

GUMBEL: Dr. Henry Kissinger, thank you. Have a good weekend.

KISSINGER: Thank you.

GUMBEL: Forty-four past. Here's Nancy's Foreman.

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