27

## GLADI (CONT'D)

I have friends that disagree with me and they say: no, that they have to get away from their children, and that they have to go do things by themselves and with other women. I don't know yet whether I agree with them but the other day I tried it.

### DISSOLVE TO:

#### MS CHILDREN COMING IN NURSERY SCHOOL

##### MISS MUNSEL: (V.O.)

We are in the New Haven YWCA. It is Thursday morning. This is the nursery. What you are seeing is the beginning of what the Y calls "Holiday From Apron Strings." It means that for a day mothers can leave their pre-school age children here. The Y will take care of them 'til three o'clock: change them. . . amuse them. . . feed them. . .

#### MS GRANDMOTHERS

... lunch prepared in the kitchen next door by volunteer grandmothers. . .

### DI ON LOUNGE

#### SOUND IN BG

29

HARVEY

I notice that works.

HART

I did it once and I never had to do
it again.

HARVEY

Do you grind the soap on their teeth
or ...

HART

No...

HARVEY

How do you do it? Because I have a
neighbor who takes the cake of soap
and she rubs it into the teeth.

HART

Oh no.

HARVEY

She says she only has to do it once.
Well, she has two youngsters and she's
only done it once to each one of
them. She just has to mention the
word soap and that's the end.

MS COFFEE KLATCH

MISS MUNSEL (V.O.)

Mothers on their day off. Spending it
comparing notes. About being mothers

MS MIMI HARVEY

33

## MISS MUNSEL (V.O.)

And we are talking about his mother,
Gladi, wondering: Is her son in real
trouble? And: Is she doing the right
things to help him?

## MUNSEL IN STUDY

### MISS MUNSEL

You can't raise children by the book.
But how can you raise them?

Sometimes Gladi Russell feels that
perhaps it can't be done at all. And
she isn't alone. A sociologist we
talked with at Yale. . . Dr. Jerome
Myers, author of a book on family
disorganization. . . told us Gladi
Russell's confusion and doubts are
mirrored in thousands of other mothers
across the country. He listed some of
the reasons for us: We live in a time
of conformity. We have more leisure. . .
more time to worry about our children.

### CU MUNSEL

Science has given us the idea that we
can push a button and get an all purpose
answer. And finally, we think our
parents are old fashioned. We don't
turn to them for advice any more.

MORE

37

CU BROWN WRITING

MS BIFF AND JULIET BROWN

BIFF

Hey you. . . My father writes much
funnier than that.

BROWN

How does he write?

CU BIFF

BIFF

He scribble scrabbles.

MONTAGE

MISS MUNSEL (V.O.)

The test lasts for an hour. It is
an intelligence test. But while he is
taking it Miss Brown will also find out
other things about Biff. How he relates
to success or failure. How much
confidence he has in himself. . .

He is asked to define words. To fit
puzzles together. To work out problems
of arithmetic. Finally, there is what
is called the "children's aperception
test." It's aim is to find out his
concerns and his interests. . . what
worries him. . . what his inner thoughts
are. . .

38

DISSOLVE TO:

MS BIFF AND JULIET BROWN

BROWN

Now, Biffy, listen carefully because
I'm going to show you pictures and
I want you to tell me stories about
them. I want you to tell me what's
happening in the picture and what you
think will happen next. All right?

BIFF

Yes.

BROWN

And I'm going to write down what you
tell me. Here's the first picture.

CU BIFF

BIFF

You see the three bears are having a
tug of war at winter it looks like and
they're seeing whoever gets the rope
they're saying they could win the house
what they liked best. And so the baby
is helping the father and the mother is
pulling ... the father is pulling the
load and the baby says: When mother,
when? And the father says: Mother
won't win Baby, I will to get that
good house.

MS BIFF AND JULIET BROWN

ag

39

BROWN

Uh huh. Fine. That's a very good story.
And who gets the house?

BIFF

The father. And he lived happily ever
after.

CU BROWN

CU BIFF

BROWN

All right. How about this picture?

BIFF

You see the three bears went to sleep
one very cold night and the baby bears
who were the sister and brother were
trying to get out of their bed and all in
a sudden the bed came down with a bump and
the mother and father were sound asleep
and they escaped and they crawled under
the bed. Then when the mother and father
woke up that morning they said: Our
babies! And they tried to find them all
through the desert that day but nothing
of their children was in sight and then
that night they looked under the bed and
there they were, starving sound asleep.

ag

40

DISSOLVE TO:

LS GLADI AND SOLNIT

MISS MUNSEL (VO)

The people at Yale want to know about
the mother too. Gladi Russell has an
appointment with Dr. Albert Solnit,
Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, and
finds herself answering some searching
questions.

MS GLADI AND SOLNIT

SOLNIT

Where had you gotten the idea that you
know that it would be sound to discipline
him one way and not to be inconsistent?

GLADI

The consistency . . . the books of course.
I used to refer to the books to find out
because in my own mind I was confused as
to which was acceptable, what was acceptable
for them to be doing at this point or what
was not.

SOLNIT

So, in fact what might have been consistent
for you was necessarily what you were doing.
You were doing what was consistent with . . .

41

GLADI

Yes, I think so . . .

SOLNIT

... advice given by different authorities.
Is that what you mean?

GLADI

Yes, I think so. Yes.

CU GLADI

SOLNIT

I take it that you're saying that the sort
of direction of Biff's development
indicates that he is in some ways beginning
to be more sociable and maleable but this
still is a sore point with you.

GLADI

Yes.

SOLNIT

That he isn't even further advanced in this
area.

GLADI

Perhaps, perhaps.

SOLNIT

Do you have any idea why, why this would
be maybe a sensitive point for you?

GLADI

I just, I don't know why, I don't understand
it.

PAN TO SOLNIT

ag

42

SOLNIT

Were you brought up, for example, with
great and deserved emphasis on fairness
and fair play and so on? Is this
something that . . .

MS GLADI AND SOLNIT

GLADI

Well, as far as I can remember, of course,
you can't remember very much, my mother
and I were talking about it just the other
day, that I seemed to have just an uncanny
sense of fairness . . .

SOLNIT

You did?

GLADI

... as a child. She just never had to
say this is right and this is wrong. I
seemed to know and, in a way though, letting
me make up my mind so much of the time I
found later on was confusing for me. I
remember I went away to school when I was
twelve, to boarding school, and I was not
doing well in school and when my roommate
did not do well she didn't get her allowance
or she had some privilege from home taken
away from her, and I remember so distinctly
going home and saying: Why don't you do
something so that I'll do better?

(MORE)

ag

43

## GLADI (CONT'D)

But, I was surrounded with: well, you're
doing all right. You know?

SOLNIT

You wanted more of a demand made upon you.

GLADI

Yes, I think so.

SOLNIT

Did you come from a large family?

CU GLADI

GLADI

No, no. There were just two of us and my
mother and dad were divorced and we were
legally adopted by my grandparents which
is very confusing.

MS GLADI AND SOLNIT

SOLNIT

Well, we probably would not be able to
explain today why a sense of fair play came
so easily and so innately for you but
obviously, if it is sort of one of the
things that occurred to you easily and
automatically, Biff's particular
characteristic of not being able yet to
respond to that would be the sore point I
was talking about.

ag

44

DISSOLVE TO:

CU PUPPETS

MISS MUNSEL (VO)

Later, after his meeting with Gladi

Russell, Dr. Solnit has what is called a
"play interview" with Biff.

His purpose is to find out through games
and conversation how he deals with his
fears, impulses and anxieties . . .

MS BIFF AND SOLNIT

SOLNIT

Well, where'd that tiger come from anyway?

BIFF

I came from Texas.

SOLNIT

Oh really.

BIFF

Yes.

SOLNIT

Golly, that's a big place isn't it?

BIFF

 Yep.

SOLNIT

What do you do in Texas, Tiger?

BIFF

You squirt, you shoot guns like this.

ag

53

DISSOLVE TO:

CONFERENCE LS

MISS MUNSEL (VO)

Meanwhile, those concerned with the case
of Bill Russell, age six, confer.

CU SOLNIT

Dr. Solnit begins the discussion.

CU JULIET BROWN

Juliet Brown reports on the results of
the intelligence test.

CU RITVO

Dr. Samuel Ritvo, discusses his
adjustment to other children.

CU PROVENCE

Dr. Sally Provence is concerned with
Biff's physical condition.

LS CONFERENCE

At the end of several hours they are
in agreement.

DISSOLVE TO:

CU GLADI LISTENING

MISS MUNSEL (VO)

Time for a verdict.

LS JACK AND GLADI IN SOLNIT'S OFFICE

MISS MUNSEL (VO)

Gladi and Jack Russell sit across the
desk from Dr. Solnit and wait.

CU SOLNIT

54

SOLNIT

From the results of our evaluation I think
it goes almost without saying that Biff
has an excellent intellectual endowment.
He's above average in high normal, bright
normal, range and therefore there need
be no concern about his intellectual
capacity or his ability to use it. However,
there is a factor about Biff which is
normal but which is his own characteristic
which I think we have to talk a great deal
about and that is, you might call it,
put it under the heading, intensity.

CU GLADI

And I think this is an important feature
because this is what makes it hard for
parents where there is a child who has
strong drives, who has strong intensity
of feeling, and who, at times, because
the intensity of the feelings is so
great that they cannot be met that moment,
will have the impression, the unrealistic
impression, that he is being rejected.

MS GLADI, JACK, SOLNIT

GLADI

Did you feel any of the resentments coming
out towards the family in your examinations
of him?

55

SOLNIT

Yes, he was able to express resentment
towards siblings and toward mommy and
daddy but in a way that was very free
and part of the fabric of his mind. See?
Because, as you know, that kind of
feeling in small amounts is a normal
thing and he has . . .

GLADI

It wasn't overly. . .

SOLNIT

No, I don't think so. And, what we
can see is that he is making steady
progress in his development even though
the progress may be a little bit slower
than a child who's more on the passive side.
And I think, if I might put it this way,
that there's nothing wrong with being
more patient with him, recognizing that
consistency would really put you in
trouble here, because you can't treat
any one child like you do the other,
both because the child is different and you
in relationship to each child are different
and life is not ideal and it isn't good for
children to be raised in a so-called ideal
situation because it doesn't strengthen
them to master their conflicts, to master
the situations which life presents them with.

(MORE)

56

## SOLNIT (CTD)

And, I would say that Biff has a normal lag in this, not an abnormal lag, but think that one of the pitfalls would be if you became panicky and interpreted what is a normal lag as something other than that and became frantic in trying to force it to a solution before he's really ready in his development to be able to deal with that frustration and that conflict.

CU SOLNIT

### GLADI

What we have to have then is a little bit more patience.

CU GLADI

### SOLNIT

With yourselves. I think perhaps the most important thing I can tell you is that you should have plenty of patience with yourselves in this.

DISSOLVE TO:

MUNSEL IN STUDIO

### MISS MUNSEL

In Dr. Solnit's office Gladi Russell sees the first glimmer of light in many months.

(MORE)

59

SPOCK (CTD)

But when child psychologists began to
study the case histories of severe
delinquents and criminals, they
discovered that the main cause was
usually not so much lack of discipline,
since many delinquent children have
been punished excessively, but lack
of love. So, the professional people
emphasized the primary importance of
affection. A certain number of very
conscientious parents who'd heard of
these studies assumed that they'd
better not ever be:cross or even firm
with their children for fear that this
might make them feel unloved. Then,
when psychiatrists began to see some of
these cases of children who were spoiled
and unhappy because they'd been controlled
too little, they had to put more emphasis
on the necessity for firmness too. This
sounded like a reversal of advice to some
parents. But this example doesn't show
that the earlier professional people who
stressed love were wrong, or that we're
back where we started from in earlier
centuries, it only means that it takes
time to discover the whole truth.

CUT TO:

59

SPOCK (CTD)

But when child psychologists began to
study the case histories of severe
delinquents and criminals, they
discovered that the main cause was
usually not so much lack of discipline,
since many delinquent children have
been punished excessively, but lack
of love. So, the professional people
emphasized the primary importance of
affection. A certain number of very
conscientious parents who'd heard of
these studies assumed that they'd
better not ever be across or even firm
with their children for fear that this
might make them feel unloved. Then,
when psychiatrists began to see some of
these cases of children who were spoiled
and unhappy because they'd been controlled
too little, they had to put more emphasis
on the necessity for firmness too. This
sounded like a reversal of advice to some
parents. But this example doesn't show
that the earlier professional people who
stressed love were wrong, or that we're
back where we started from in earlier
centuries, it only means that it takes
time to discover the whole truth.

CUT TO:

60

CU GLADI

GLADI

In some cases the experts disagree among
themselves. How can I tell which expert
to believe?

CU AMES

AMES

I think here you really do have to go
along with your own feelings and this
is going to be fairly easy. You aren't
going to get anywhere if you're following
an expert who says that you must never
spank, and you yourself are of somewhat
violent temper and you have a temperament,
and you have a violent child who responds
only to crossing you. You're not going to
get anywhere if you're holding yourself
back because some book says that you
mustn't spank. So actually this is rather
an academic question about which expert to
follow. You're going to follow the one
that is useful and helpful and sensible
to you.

DISSOLVE TO:

MS GLADI

GLADI

Do you think that it's a good thing that
there are so many hooks on child care
available to mothers today?

61

CU AMES

AMES

Well, I don't think it does any harm.
You're not forced into the store, you're
not forced to buy them, you're not forced
to read them. And, the probability is
that you will pick some one specialist
whom you like, or some one school, and
you will get the books that he or that
school have written and you'll follow them.

CU GLADI

MS SENN

SENN

I do _not_ think it's a good idea that
there are so many books. I think this is
one of the things that confuses people.
So many of the books that we have now
on child rearing and child care are
repititious and I think that people who
are in my position particularly are
frequently urged to write books. Another
book on child care, child rearing. I do
think, as I said a minute ago, that we
have too many and that people tend to
feel that if they accumulate all the books
and have a five foot shelf filled with
books on child care, this will sort of
guarantee successful child rearing.

CU GLADI

62

MS SPOCK

SPOCK

I think that some parents have been
bothered, as perhaps you have Mrs. Russell,
by the great amount of advice that's offered
to them by psychologists and educators
and pediatricians, through books, such
as mine, and lectures as well as individual
consultations. I admit that we professional
people in trying to make our points clear
have sometimes given the impression there
was only one way to bring up a child. But
I do think, all things considered, that
most parents have benefited a lot from
the knowledge that's been made available
to them.

CU GLADI

GLADI

Dr. Spock, can I trust my own feelings
even if they don't agree with your book?

CU SPOCK

SPOCK

You certainly can, Mrs. Russell, and you
should. After all, you know your child a
lot better than I do.

64

MS SEEN

SENN

I think that every parent, every day,
many times during the day, has to rely
on his own feeling, his own common sense
as you put it, and this is fine. But where
a parent begins to be concerned and worries
day after day about something, in other
words, some behavioral triat --- maybe
the child who isn't eating, who is not
sleeping so well -- this now becomes a
nagging, gnawing problem to a parent and
I think that such parents would naturally
want to go to somebody, maybe to a book,
but frequently to some person and ask for
help.

CU GLADI

GLADI

We are told what constitutes a normal
child. Should I worry if my child
deviates from these standards?

CU AMES

AMES

If you have a nine year old child and
he's acting like a six year old you
already would have been worried. The
norms aren't frightening you.

(MORE)

65

AMES (CTD)

The norms will just tell you that you
have a serious problem on your hands.
If you have a nine year old child who's
acting about like an eight year old the
probability is he's just coming along
a little slowly. And don't forget a norm
isn't a rule of what people ought to do,
a norm is just a mean. It just means
the average child behaves this way which
obviously means a good many are going to
be a little faster and a good many are
going to be a little slower so that a
slight deviation from the norm shouldn't
frighten anybody.

CU GLADI

66

MS SENN

SEEN

What I don't like about your question is
that you seem to tie it too much to the
age. I'm against this close correlation
between age and behavior. For example,
I think it's nonsense and I think it's
wrong and there's no scientific evidence
to say that the five year old, that every
five year old child, acts very much like
other five year old children. Or that
every five and a half year old child acts
very much like, or even identically with,
every other child age five and a half
years. So that I would rather put it
this way, that within certain phases of
development -- early infancy, later
infancy, the pre-school period between
two and five, the school age period from
six to twelve and fourteen and adolescence
-- in those distinct phases of development,
yes, there are many qualities and many
traits of behavior in children which are
common to the group and if you want to call
them normal, that's O.K. with me.

aac

67

MCU GLADI

GLADI

I don't want my child to grow up with
fears and guilts and anxieties and I'm
afraid at times that I unconsciously do
things to cause them. How do I avoid
that?

CU STONE

STONE

I don't think I want to answer your
question as you phrased it. I don't
think it's a real question. You see, I
don't think that any child can grow up
without guilts and fears and anxieties
and so it doesn't make sense to tell you
how to avoid it. If a child could grow
up without this he'd be a very poor human
being. He wouldn't have any conscience,
he wouldn't have any concern about other
people. He's have no ambition.

CU SENN

SENN

I don't think that any parent can avoid
entirely his children having fears. I don't
think that any parent can avoid adding to
his child's fears to some degree. That's
life.

aac

69

CREDITS

ANNOUNCER

We would like to thank the Child Study
Association and the YWCA for their
assistance in preparing this program.

If you have a problem with a child about
which you feel you would like help, you
may want to contact the Child Welfare
Service or the Family Service Agency or
the Mental Health Association in your
community.

For information about these organizations,
call your United Fund or Community Chest
Office.

aac