*

TELECON

Mr. Kissinger
Gerard Smith

June 16, 1969 -- 2:54 p. m.

S -- Did you see the rough draft of the possible speech?

K -- Yes, but there are two items I wish to discuss with you first:

1. The first is how we handle the material you have. Up to now, it has by-passed the NSC; it has never gone into the Review Group and never been fully staffed. S said he didn't believe this was true -- a copy was submitted to the steering group several weeks ago which an NSC representative attended. It has also been studied by CIA. K said he wanted to put into the Review Group for this coming Thursday to give everybody a formal chance to comment on it. S said to put it into the mill as soon as possible. S interjected that he noticed in a summary on NSSM 28, page 16, which had been worked on by people over the weekend, a discrepancy. (Missed paragraph he quoted) S said he wished to request a modification of the summary to the effect that this item has not been done by the Review Group, but has been studied -- it has not been included in formal packages. K agreed to modify that reference.

2. K said, secondly, he is being hit about twice a week about proposals on MIRV testing. Feels he should get a small group together and establish a short fuse to come up with the pros and cons and keep hitting this subject on an ad hoc basis. Up to now it has been hit in bits and pieces. S agreed.

K -- Back to the speech, K talked to the President about it; the President feels if a proposal is going to be made, a speech would be the place to make it rather than have a formal package. He wants to avoid having it talked about all over town. K suggested he and S have a word after the NSC meeting. S said he drafted it personally and asked how we handle this and also have the SWWA (?) considered. K said he and S should talk about what else we might do. S asked if, in the meantime, he could send over to K tomorrow an outline about what his briefing would contain. K said he wished to make absolutely clear that S is under no obligation to do that, but he would review it if he wanted.

lds

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958
By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

*

Telecon
Prof. Huntington
3:15 p.m. 6/16/69

They discussed the Midway trip.

HAK said he had seen Huntington's letter and it had been a great help. He talked with Richardson about it and the two of them were going to get together this week to see if there was something Huntington could do down here. HAK asked if H had every given thought to the ceasefire question. H said this was something that Humphrey expressed interest, but thought there were studies within the government. HAK wasn't satisfied with these reports/

HAK said he would be in touch later this week with Huntington.

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958
By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

*

TELCONE
John Walsh

Mr. Kissinger
6-16-69 5:55 PM

K said he wanted to talk with W about Vance - wondering what to make of this public declaration. K said Al tells him that W has some thoughts on this. W said he called Vance in New Jersey and Vance said he was frankly pressed hard by Harriman and others to say something so he went along with Kerr. W said he wished Vance had not done this but he did. K asked whether Vance would be in opposition now and W said he did not think so - W thinks he will be careful. K said Harriman came in the other day and said Vance's conscience is bothering him and we would have that to contend with. W agreed. K said the last time he talked to Vance on the phone he was not as forthcoming. W found the same to be true. W said he is coming to town on Wed. K talked about people who got us into the mess - not so much Vance, he is good public servant - but one statement they all make which is just outrageous is that they were all set up for deescalation. W mentioned Abrams cable about units and said they were gone before that agreement. W said he is convinced that both he and Harriman agreed to instructions given to Abrams. K said yes, as means of seeling the thing. W said he can check that. K said it would be interesting and asked W to do it and let him know. W said he would provide the evidence.

jm

(*Vance)

DECLASSIFIED

*

TELCON
The President
Mr. Kissinger
6-16-69 6:30 PM

Pres asked if K had any odds and ends for him. K said all he has is
letter that Pompideau wrote in reply to telegram sent yesterday.
Pompideau wondered if Pres would object to releasing to the press and
President said that would be fine. K said he had nothing that requires
President's immediate attention. Pres said he knows that K probably
wants to work on press thing but if K has anything he can bring it up.
Pres asked about any developments on various fronts today.

K said we are working on getting estimates of supplies coming in thru
Cambodia - will not amount to anything. Pres asked the reason and
K said they are afraid if we admit that we might take action with
Cambodia. K said we are not dealing with upper eschelon in this case
and thinks we can get facts after some work. K said he does not think
this is problem of the magnitude that the other one is. They admit
no clear theory of alternative means. K said we have asked what resources
are needed to make final determination. Pres wished K good luck.

Pres said he would do press conf on Thurs night at 7 or 7:30. K asked
when he wanted books and Pres said Wed noon. K said he has talked
to G Smith along the lines of their conversation yesterday - putting it into
NSC slows Smith down a bit. K said he also told him Pres was thinking
of giving a speech and that will keep Smith from leaking it.

Pres said he had just been talking to woman from the Philippines - Pres
said he guesses he will be going early enough so they will not blow place
up. K said he better take a reading on the situation. K said Marcos
would have vested interest in giving Pres tremendous reception and
his opponent may have interest as well. Pres asked whether K had made
any Ambassadorial touches yet - K said he will be starting tomorrow
and will keep the Romanian until the end. K said he will hint to Romanian
Saigon bit so Pres will not be disinvited during trip. Pres agreed.

Pres rang off by saying if K needed him he would be at home.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

*

TELCON
Secy Laird
Mr. Kissinger
6-16-69 6:40 PM

L said he was calling about blue ribbon panel President talked about on
Defense. L said they looked at Julian Dart & Wall St. Journal fellow. L said
the Wall St. Journal fellow looked best but he had to go back into the
hospital. L said he thinks they now have a good man in Gil Fitzhugh, Chairman
of Board of Metropolitan Life and asked if K knew him. K said no. L said
Fitzhugh is not connected in any way with Defense industry - he is
republican - L checked him out with Tom Dewey and others and he is about
the best L could find. L said he still thinks they should go along with McNeal
but L asked what he should do with the panel when he gets it more or less
together. Fitzhugh supported Nixon all the way in the campaign and K said
in that case L should go ahead - Have the President look at the whole list.

K said he had two things to bring up. First, he has a note from President
who is still boiling about NSC meeting on Friday - L said he had gotten a
report. K said President now wants statement from Defense as well as
State as to what they think is sufficient in force levels. K said Pres
wants it by tomorrow night and K thinks this is impossible but that is what
Pres wants. K said L said he would get cranking on it. Second, K said
Pres wants K to have a talk with L sometime on some of the impressions of things
that have been going on in order to get L's judgment as savy political
guy. K said he wants to do on personal basis. L said he would be glad to do
it. L said he has to get off the Hill - was up there for seven straight hours today.
K asked whether Packard had told L about intelligence go round and L said yes.
L said Symington and Mundt took Fulbright on today. L said he his going before
the FAC in Executive Session but he will insist that Dick Helms be sitting at
table with him. K said not to do it until we have a new estimate out of them.
K said it should be ready by Thursday. L agreed to stall on this.
K said these are factual things and no one is asking them to say anything
that is not true - if it is not conclusive they should say that. L agreed.

Jm

DECLASSIFIED

*

TELCON
Gerard Smith

Mr. Kissinger

6-17-69 12:40 PM

S said he was wondering if K wanted him to produce a paper for
Review Group meeting on Thursday. K said he can never find out
if when he gives an order something is done in his shop. K said any
paper S wants to put before the group that amplifies what we have
we would welcome. S said that he thinks they will stand on the earlier
paper. K said that is why he had not asked for anything additional
because he thought S's paper was self-explanatory but he could add anything
he wanted to it. S said he did not think he would.

K suggested that he and S have a word after the meeting tomorrow or after
Review Group meeting on Thursday - K will then talk to S about the speech.
S said fine.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

*

TELCONE

Elliot Richardson
Mr. Kissinger
6-17-69 6:45 PM

on

R said he was calling/matter of Sneider replacement. They have
reviewed various possibilities but everything considered
R thinks Holdridge would be exceedingly good for K. R said
Marshall Greene holds him in highest regard and points out that
Holdridge has been following all FE developments in INR job
including Paris. Holdridge is said to be very thoughtful, supposed
to be articulate and honest. K asked if R would release him and R
said yes. K asked about Gleysteen. R said he is also good but from
standpoint of personality R wonders whether he is kind of guy K wants.
R said they are both very capable. K asked if R were recommending
Holdridge however and R said yes, based on what he has found. R said
there is one think that K should know - they checked his security as
well as medical history. Holdridge had mild case of hypertension in
1966 - R does not know of any current problem on that score but
given pressures of job thought K should be aware of this. R suggested
in talking with Holdridge that K emphasize kind of job it is, etc.
K said he does not know whether Holdridge would accept and asked
if anyone there at State had talked to him. R said no. K said he would
call Holdridge tomorrow and see if he would be willing to consider it.
R said he would send over resume and xerox copy of medical note.

R asked how K liked Cuban thing - was it adequate. K said he has not
seen it yet. R said it was sent by messenger last night so R could be
sure they had fulfilled their commitment. K said he did not know that
R wanted immediate action - did he misunderstand. R said no.
R then told K what was in memo. K said he frankly does not have it yet -
his staff is probably studying it and wondering where nutty idea came fro m.
K said he would review it and call R tomorrow. K said he may just hold
it until there is another request.

R said he looks forward to lunch on Thursday - has some thoughts on
Russian-Asian situation. K said he would also like to discuss with R
provisional government.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

*

TELCOM
President
Mr. Kissinger
6-18-69 8:30 AM

P said he was wondering if K could get hold of Helms before the meeting and ask him about leak of Intelligence report. Pres asked K if he did not think that had to come from CIA. K said from there or from State. Pres asked who represented State and K said Hughes. Pres said he wanted Rogers to check with Hughes and Pres would like to meet with Helms and Rogers five minutes before the meeting. Pres said Hughes is not to go to London - has he been told? K said Richardson has been told. K said this is of course a direct attempt - there is a deliberate campaign which has been going on to steamroll us. Article also says Pres is going to announce dates of SALT talks - K said we have not even talked to the Russians yet. Pres said Helms and Rogers are to talk to each other and to K - Pres wants to know who was on that board - this was never presented to the Senate so it had to come from board. K agreed. Pres said he wants a signed statement from men on that board by 10:00 today stating which newsmen they talked to last week. Pres said each man who had access to report is to sign statement.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

*

TELCONE

Secy Rogers
Mr. Kissinger
6-18-69 8:32 AM

K said Pres read this US Intelligence Board report in the newspaper -
story by Peter Gross which says intelligence board met last week
and decided no first strike threat. K said that is paper he knows
never sent to the Senate and Pres wants every member who sits on
the board to write a statement of which newsmen they talked to last
week. K said he would like to meet with R, Helms and Laird five
minutes before the meeting. R said he had never seen it.
Phil Farley was at meeting when this was gone over.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

*

TELCONE

Richard Helms
Mr. Kissinger

6-18-69 8:35 AM

K said Pres is on the war path re the story by Peter Gross in the Times
this morning which says intelligence board met last week and decided no
first strike threat. H was incredulous - said only one-half dozen
copies of that report were distributed and H knows where everyone was
sent. K said that is what Pres wants to know from H. K said the Gross
story is not very good and gave H gist of it. H said that wasn't even
covered in the thing (do not know what he was referring to) - it was taken
out of final version. K said that made it even more interesting. K said
Pres wants to know who got copies and anyone in H's agency who did
has to sign a statement saying which newsmen he saw last week. K said
he is calling State, Defense, CIA, etc. K said he want this by 10:00
and wants to see Rogers and Helms five minutes before meeting.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

*

TELCON
Rowland Evans
Mr. Kissinger
6-18-69 8:40 AM

E and K discussed E's article in morning paper. K explained how NSC system works. E said he was sure K was right on all those technicalities but thrust of his article was different. E referred to absence of Rogers at meeting with Thieu. K said Thieu did not want his foreign secretary there and that is reason. E said it never happened before with Kennedy or anyone. K said reason he was there was that someone had to be there to keep a record. K said he think this happened very often with Bundy. E said he had checked that and it was not the case; nor was it case with Rostow. E said he was reporting a hard fact - K was there and Rogers was not. E said this is unprecedented situation - E is neither for nor against it. E said it would be interesting to see what they do with Policy Planning Staff.

E asked if K would see him one of these days and K said yes.

jm

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Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

*

TELCONE
Secy Rusk
Mr. Kissinger
6-18-69 9:10 AM

K said he was calling about the Joe Kraft story on deescalation - that
it was all set until we came in and goofed it all up. K said we have
searched the record and cannot find that this is true. R said Harriman
never made such a recommendation. K asked if R would object
if we say as far as we can determine from searching the records
no such recommendation was made - without involving R. R said he
would think so. R said one of his problems was that he has not read
the Kraft story - R does not consider him worth reading. K said
story says Harriman was in the process of doing it and then we did not
follow it up. R suggested Pres just say he has searched records and
finds no evidence that those responsible for the conduct of foreign
affairs had taken steps in that direction. K said he cannot find that
Harriman ever made such a recommendation. R said Harriman told
someone the other day that was true - he did not make such a
recommendation. R said K has some people around now who were
involved - Wheeler for example. K said no one can find any record
in our files. R said he would say record just does not support this.

K said he is finding as he is sure R did that the doves are much more
viscious than the hawks. K referred to Clark Clifford and his article
coming out in Foreign Affairs which says the war is lost. R said he wished
these people would keep their mouths shut so the new people can do some
negotiation. R said there was never any serious discussion of deescalation -
we did offer make mutual troop withdrawals.

jm

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Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

*

TELCON
Senator Brooke

Mr. Kissinger

6-18-69

9:20 AM

B said as K obviously knows, he did introduce the resolution - felt it
was a matter of conscience. B said Case said the only difference was in
language but B considered it substantive. B said in addition to 40 co-sponsors
there were at least 10 more who told him they would support the vote
for it but did not feel they could lend their names as co-sponsors. B said
if we could see our way clear on this MIRV proposition and would take
the test and evaluation of the flight radars and electronic components
without procurement of missiles. B referred to language he had suggested
to Armed Services Subcommittee on Research and development. B said
if there were a combination of these two things there would be no problem
with bringing xna a lot of people in line in support of the ABM system.
K asked what B meant by deferring deployment of missiles. B said the
ones we would use for testing purposes. K asked for how long. B said
to see how arms control went along. Do not say you will be doing any more
than checking out radars. K said we are making a study of the MIRV
question right now - there are complications we did not realize before.
K said he would like to think about what B said. B said he thinks Weisner
and that whole group are very much interested in this and B thinks a lot
of fellows on this side would come in and any real division would be avoided -
especially since we are not going to do much more anyhow. K said
ABM compromise is different - he is not saying it is impossible but would
like to check out some intelligence review we are now making.

K said he appreciated spirit in which B held called. B said he does think
if we would couple these two together, we would have good chance of
bringing them around. K said he would see what he could do about it.

jm

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Authority E.O.12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

*

TELCOM

Tom Johnson
Mr. Kissinger
6-18-69 1:15 PM

K said President wanted Pres Johnson to know about forthcoming Clifford
article in FA. J said they have seen newspaper reports but have not seen
article. K said it is hard to negotiate when Secy of Defense of previous
Adm does this - it makes our position murder when he says war is lost.
J said he understands. K said he wanted Pres Johnson to know that
Harriman is going around saying he had deescalation all set but we cannot
find any evidence of that. J said Pres J is on the ranch and would be delighted
to talk with K - K said he did not want to bother him, just wanted to relay
the problem. K said in Pres press conf, he would like to say we have
searched files and there is no evidence of this - cannot find it exx in any
of the files that do exist. J said he would mention it to Pres J and it may
be that he will want to call K. K said he has talked to Dean Rusk and he
has no recollection of anything like this.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

*

TELCON
G Smith
Mr. Kissinger

6-18-69 1:30 PM

S referred to statement made by President concernin g leaks. S said
since he does not see newspapermen at all, he wants to find out who
is telling Pres these things. K said he was not sure who the President
was looking at when he said that. S said he was looking at him. K said
S could be sure anytime K has a complaint, S will be the first to hear.
K said the first time he heard this statement was after a meeting
yesterday in the President's office. S said Presidents statement today
was that S's agency was one of worst offenders or words to that
effect. S said he could find out what evidence is he would do
something about it. S does not believe it is true. S said since he has to
be responsible for his agency, if there is evidence he would like to have it.
K said he would look into it and let S know.

K and S agreed to talk after Review Group tomorrow.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

TELECON

The Attorney General
Mr. Kissinger

June 18, 1969 -- 3:35 p. m.

M -- Forgot to mention to K that the President discussed with him the New York Times front-page story. M has dissuaded the President from using the FBI to find out how the story leaked; however, he is to contact Helms, Laird and Rogers (and it might be better to do this by memo for record purposes) and tell them the President asked him to investigate this and to obtain the names of the people in the three establishments who had access to the information. K thought this was good because it will scare them. M agreed -- with the FBI in his Department, they won't know if that is the next step. M asked K what his thought was on where the leak occurred. K said it had to be either CIA or State and nowhere else. It was against the interests of Defense. M agreed unless someone is programming Laird. K said no member of his staff was at that meeting (this was the Thursday USIB meeting).

K said Helms told him he had toned down the information on the first strike. This was new information, because K did not know it until this morning. Helms also thinks it came out of the USIB meeting. M said he was sorry K missed Helms' confession of error. He (H) covered footprints and MIRV's and came out strong that they were directed no doubt at hard targets and more than likely at the Minutemen. K said it only took four sessions to get him to admit this.

K said Grose probably was not the recipient of the information; it was probably given to someone else on the Times who relayed it. He suggested that M ask the three agencies for a list of all New York Times contacts with their people.

M asked if K could recommend any other action besides the polygraph. K said that had been discussed, too, but that action is too humiliating. K said it is, seriously, a great comfort to all that M is involved in these things. M wondered, in view of the DOD posture vis-a-vis this matter, if he should bother Laird. K said yes, just so there will be no charge of discrimination, but M could tell Laird he has a pretty good suspicion where it came from.

lds

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*

TELCONE

Secy Laird
Mr. Kissinger
6-18-69 7:25 PM

L said he thinks Pres might be asked tomorrow in Q&A about
division between CIA and Laird as far as SS9 is concerned. L said
there is meeting scheduled for Monday at 10:30 at FA Committee
with him and Helms together. K asked if it could be put off until
Tues and L said no because Helms is leaving for Europe. L said
he would send over a sheet that K can look at. L said as far as President's
statement there were a couple of things that should be changed.
K said he has L's changes here and would go over them immediately.
L asked if K had copy before him and K said yes. L went over his changes,
explaining why they were being made. K said he thinks all of the changes
make it more precise. L said people do not think he leans over backwards
on these things, but he does. L said he was also sending over something
else which K could use if he wanted to.

K said he and L should get together and he would have Haig call Persley.
L asked about tomorrow for a possible meeting and K said right

jm

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Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06

*

TELCON
Attorney General
Mr. Kissinger
6-18-69 PM

K said he has another State Dept problem with which he wanted to acquaint AG and on which he might need AG's help. Starting this week, State is not sending cables over for clearance before they go out - in any area especially on VN. AG asked including Paris and K said right - they sent Walsh into see Sovt Ambs without clearance from the White House. K said Soviets must think we have lost our minds on the basis of what K showed AG on Dobrynin. WH clearance for eight years has been standard. AG asked who signed Cable and K said all cables are signed by Rogers. K said he knows this is direct order from him. AG said he definitely agrees this cannot be. AG asked how K got cable and K said it comes over automatically. AG said he thought K should take up with Pres and K said he would like to say that he had discussed it with AG. AG said by all means - could not be stronger about anything he has run into down here. K said he feels the President has to have control on foreign policy and if K is not doing job well enough, he should get someone else. AG said he agreed that control had to be at WH - they will murder him if he does not have this. AG said K should be as strong as he needs to be and if he needs AG's backup to let him know.

jm

DECLASSIFIED

Authority E.O. 12958

By DS NARA Date 4/15/06