Two Americans on US-China Relationship

The first of the following two articles was written by the former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger at the request of "Beijing Review." In the second article, Zbigniew Brzezinski, former US National Security Adviser, answers questions by Wang Youfen, our special correspondent now covering Premier Zhao's North American visit. — Ed.

Kissinger:

An Event of Historic Importance

The visit of the Chinese Premier to the United States is an event of historic importance. He is the most senior Chinese leader with whom President [Ronald] Reagan has had an opportunity to exchange ideas. The arrival of Premier Zhao Ziyang symbolizes that over the past decade the People's Republic of China and the United States of America have found their way to a new and mature relationship.

In 1971, when the first exchanges between our two countries took place, there was — at least on the American side — the excitement of rediscovering an ancient and vital people. This sometimes obscured the fact that important differences, some rooted in legacies of the past, remained. As a result, for some years the two countries seemed more conscious of what divided them than of those matters on which they could move in parallel. In a third phase, both sides reassessed their positions. In recent years, the new administration in Washington, overcoming earlier preconceptions, has committed itself to a firm and close relationship with Beijing. And Beijing's new leaders, dedicated to the four modernizations, have made their own contribution to resolving differences in a realistic and far-sighted spirit.

China and the United States represent different ideologies, but they are brought together by important common interests. Both

must seek to prevent — as the Shanghai Communique [in 1972] already pointed out — the global hegemony of any state. Both have an interest that the territorial integrity and sovereignty of nations not be violated by the arbitrary use of power.

Similarly, a dynamic China

achieving its four modernizations contributes to peace, stability and progress in Asia and the world. Therefore, it is also in America's interest. This is why the recent economic understandings between our two countries are so important. In short, our two countries co-operate with each other, not as a favour one does to the other, but to achieve parallel goals.

Of course, some differences of opinion will continue. No doubt the Premier will express them with characteristic subtlety and listen to American views with typical courtesy. No one expects a complete identity of views. China — as it has for thousands of years — will pursue the course dictated by its principles and its interests. So will the United States, though it has a short history.

China's friends in America are convinced that in many important areas parallel courses of action will serve the interests of both sides. The Premier's visit will strengthen the prospects of co-operation and ease remaining disagreements.

For all to whom close relations with China are a matter of great importance, the visit of the Premier is a most auspicious event. Welcome, Mr. Premier, and may you take back with you the most pleasant memories and the most fruitful spirit of friendship. ☐

Brzezinski:

A New Point of Departure

Sino-US relations are not only important to the interests of both countries but also have an important bearing on development of events in the entire world. What is the significance of Premier Zhao's visit in this context?

Brzezinski: Premier Zhao's trip

to the United States is the most important Chinese visit since the historic meeting in early 1979 in the White House between Vice-Chairman Deng Xiaoping and President Carter. Mr. Deng's visit symbolized the enormous importance not only to both countries

20

Beijing Review, No. 2

but to world affairs of the newly
normalized relationship between
the United States and China. More-
over, it served as the point of de-
parture for a wider and more co-
operative strategic relationship be-
tween our two countries.

Premier Zhao's visit to the Unit-
ed States is a truly important
further step in that relationship.
Both countries have succeeded in
overcoming some frictions and
misunderstandings that developed
subsequent to normalization, and
this proves that the relationship
between us is strong and in our
mutual interest.

Premier Zhao comes to Washing-
ton at a time when conditions in
the Far East are relatively stable,
but there are considerable tensions
in other parts of the world. More-
over, continued Soviet strategic de-
ployments targeted against both
Western Europe and the Far East
(with 144 Soviet SS-20s newly aim-
ed at China and Japan) underline
the degree to which global security
has become a truly interdependent
concern and a very appropriate
subject for discussion between US
and Chinese leaders.

Finally the United States is
sympathetically interested in Chi-
nese plans for the long-term
modernization of their economy
and society. Hence the develop-
ment of closer economic relations
between China and America will
doubtless be to our mutual ad-
vantage.

Let me note also in connection
with the above that closer
American-Chinese relations now
enjoy truly bipartisan sup-
port in America. I am pleased
to have been involved in
that process, but I readily ac-
knowledge the historic role play-
ed in it by the Republican prede-
cessors of the last Democratic ad-
ministration. Our Chinese friends
should know that today a close
American-Chinese connection has
become one of the foundation

stones of American foreign policy,
and it is no longer a matter of
major political debate.

Premier Zhao's visit thus comes
at an opportune moment and it
should be the point of departure
for a significant expansion in our
various collaborative relationships.

*Because the Taiwan issue stands
out as the major obstacle in Sino-
US relations, how should that
issue be handled so that our rela-
tions can develop smoothly?*

Brzezinski: I believe our two
countries have shaped a frame-
work of understanding within
which the Taiwan issue can be
managed. We are still in a his-
torically transitional era insofar as
that issue is concerned, and the
Chinese people have the imagina-
tion and the flexibility to resolve
the matter peacefully in a manner
acceptable to all interested parties.
In this connection, let me say quite
frankly that I believe that how
the Hongkong matter is resolved
will be of some considerable im-
portance to the further evolution of
the political relationship between
Taiwan and mainland China.

As one of the few people who
have played a key role in the nor-
malization of relations between

our two countries, what do you
intend to do in the future in order
to promote them? I understand
you are invited by the Chinese
People's Association for Friend-
ship with Foreign Countries to
visit China in February.

Brzezinski: I shall be visiting
China with a few colleagues who
have played a major role in Ameri-
can public life to foster a wider
strategic dialogue between our
peoples. I believe that in addition
to formal governmental discus-
sions, our relationship is now at a
stage in which both sides can ben-
efit from broader and more in-
formal discussions between indivi-
duals in both of our countries who
have a special interest in interna-
tional affairs. Such a wider dia-
logue can be supportive of official
relationships, contribute to deeper
understanding, and also act as a
catalyst for the development of ad-
ditional relationships.

Let me say in this connection
also that I hope that in the not-
too-distant future our governments
will evolve more frequent and reg-
ularized consultations, scheduled
perhaps on an annual basis, and
maybe even in the future involv-
ing some other countries that
share a common interest in stabil-
ity and progress in the Pacific
basin. On strategic and economic
matters, one could envisage fruit-
ful discussions between Chinese,
Japanese, and Americans. On
other issues, wider participation in
such discussions may be desirable,
involving also some of the ASEAN
countries. In brief, precisely be-
cause the Pacific basin is emerg-
ing as the most vital sector of the
world economy, and because
China plays such a pre-eminent
role in that region, we need to
further enhance not only our bilat-
eral relationship but use it also as
a point of departure for wider
multilateral co-operation. ☐

January 9, 1984

21

TO: BEIJING REVIEW
105
TRT
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TO: BEIJING REVIEW
ATTN: MR. WANG XI

FROM: OFFICE OF DR. HENRY A. KISSINGER

FOLLOWING IS TEXT OF DR. KISSINGER'S ARTICLE CONCERNING
PREMIER ZHAO'S VISIT.

## QUOTE

THE VISIT OF THE CHINESE PRIME MINISTER TO THE UNITED STATES IS AN EVENT OF HISTORIC IMPORTANCE. HE IS THE MOST SENIOR CHINESE LEADER WITH WHOM PRESIDENT REAGAN HAS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXCHANGE IDEAS. THE ARRIVAL OF PREMIER ZHAO ZIYANG SYMBOLIZES THAT OVER THE PAST DECADE THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA HAVE FOUND THEIR WAY TO A NEW AND NATURE RELATIONSHIP.

IN 1971, WHEN THE FIRST EXCHANGES BETWEEN OUR TWO COUNTRIES TOOK PLACE, THERE WAS--AT LEAST ON THE AMERICAN SIDE--THE EXCITEMENT OF REDISCOVERING AN ANCIENT AND VITAL PEOPLE. THIS SOMETIMES OBSCURED THE FACT THAT IMPORTANT DIFFERENCES, SOME ROOTED IN LEGACIES OF THE PAST, REMAINED. AS A RESULT, FOR SOME YEARS THE TWO COUNTRIES SEEMED MORE CONSCIOUS OF WHAT DIVIDED THEM THAN OF THOSE MATTERS ON WHICH THEY COULD MOVE IN PARALLEL. IN A THIRD PHASE, BOTH SIDES REASSessed THEIR POSITIONS. IN RECENT YEARS, THE NEW ADMINISTRATION IN WASHINGTON, OVERCOMING EARLIER PRECONCEPTIONS, HAS COMMITTED ITSELF TO A FIRM AND CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH BEIJING. AND BEIJING'S NEW LEADERS, DEDICATED TO THE FOUR MODERNIZATIONS, HAVE MADE THEIR OWN CONTRIBUTION TO RESOLVING DIFFERENCES IN A REALISTIC AND FARSIGHTED SPIRIT.

CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES REPRESENT DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES. BUT THEY ARE BROUGHT TOGETHER BY IMPORTANT COMMON INTERESTS. BOTH MUST SEEK TO PREVENT--AS THE SHANGHAI COMMUNIQUE ALREADY POINTED OUT--THE GLOBAL HEGEMONY OF ANY STATE. BOTH HAVE AN INTEREST THAT THE TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY AND SOVEREIGNTY OF NATIONS NOT BE VIOLATED BY THE ARBITRARY USE OF POWER.

SIMILARLY, A DYNAMIC CHINA ACHIEVING ITS FOUR MODERNIZATIONS CONTRIBUTES TO PEACE, STABILITY AND PROGRESS IN ASIA AND THE WORLD. THEREFORE, IT IS ALSO IN AMERICA'S INTERESTS. THIS IS WHY THE RECENT ECONOMIC UNDERSTANDINGS BETWEEN OUR TWO COUNTRIES ARE SO IMPORTANT. IN SHORT, OUR TWO COUNTRIES COOPERATE WITH EACH OTHER NOT AS A FAVOR ONE DOES TO THE OTHER BUT TO ACHIEVE PARALLEL GOALS.

OF COURSE, SOME DIFFERENCES OF OPINION WILL CONTINUE. NO DOUBT THE PREMIER WILL EXPRESS THEM WITH CHARACTERISTIC SUBTLETY AND LISTEN TO AMERICAN VIEWS WITH TYPICAL COURTESY. NO ONE EXPECTS A COMPLETE IDENTITY OF VIEWS. CHINA--AS IT HAS FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS--WILL PURSUE THE COURSE DICTATED BY ITS PRINCIPLES AND ITS INTERESTS. SO WILL THE UNITED STATES, THOUGH IT HAS A SHORTER HISTORY.

CHINA'S FRIENDS IN AMERICA ARE CONVINCED THAT IN MANY IMPORTANT AREAS PARALLEL COURSES OF ACTION WILL SERVE THE INTERESTS OF BOTH SIDES. THE PRIME MINISTER'S VISIT WILL STRENGTHEN THE PROSPECTS OF COOPERATION AND EASE REMAINING DISAGREEMENTS.

FOR ALL TO WHOM CLOSE RELATIONS WITH CHINA ARE A MATTER OF GREAT IMPORTANCE, THE VISIT OF THE PREMIER IS A MOST AUSPICIOUS EVENT. WELCOME, MR. PRIME MINISTER, AND MAY YOU TAKE BACK WITH YOU THE MOST PLEASANT MEMORIES AND THE MOST FRUITFUL SPIRIT OF FRIENDSHIP.

END OF QUOTE

WE ARE ALSO TRANSMITTING A COPY OF ABOVE TEXT TO MR. WONG IN NEW YORK.

REGARDS, JODY WILLIAMS
OFFICE OF HENRY A. KISSINGER

WELL RECEIVED GGGGGGGG

22496 CIBTC CN
CSIS GU WSH
========

009.4 MINS THANKS

THE VISIT OF THE CHINESE PRIME MINISTER TO THE UNITED STATES IS AN EVENT OF HISTORIC IMPORTANCE. HE IS THE HIGHEST RANKING OFFICIAL FROM BEIJING EVER TO JOURNEY TO THE UNITED STATES. HE IS THE MOST Senior CHINESE LEADER WITH WHOM PRESIDENT REAGAN HAS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXCHANGE IDEAS. ABOVE ALL, THE ARRIVAL OF PREMIER ZHAO ZIYANG SYMBOLIZES THAT OVER THE PAST DECADE THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA HAVE FOUND THEIR WAY TO A NEW AND MATURE RELATIONSHIP.

IN 1971, WHEN THE FIRST EXCHANGES BETWEEN OUR TWO COUNTRIES TOOK PLACE, THERE WAS -- AT LEAST ON THE AMERICAN SIDE -- THE EXCITEMENT OF REDISCOVERING AN ANCIENT AND VITAL PEOPLE. THIS SOMETIMES OBSCURED THE FACT THAT IMPORTANT DIFFERENCES, AND LEGACIES OF THE PAST, REMAINED. AS A RESULT, FOR SOME YEARS THE COUNTRIES SEEMED MORE CONSCIOUS OF WHAT DIVIDED THEM THAN OF THOSE MATTERS ON WHICH THEY COULD MOVE IN PARALLEL. IN A THIRD PHASE, BOTH SIDES REASSESSED THEIR PRECONCEPTIONS. IN RECENT YEARS, THE NEW ADMINISTRATION IN WASHINGTON, OVERCOMING EARLIER PRECONCEPTIONS, HAS COMMITTED ITSELF TO A FIRM AND CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH BEIJING. AND BEIJING'S NEW LEADERS, DEDICATED TO THE FOUR MODERNIZATION, HAVE MADE THEIR OWN CONTRIBUTION TO RESULTING DIFFERENCES IN A FAR AND Foresighted SPIRIT.

CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES REPRESENT DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES, BUT THEY ARE BROUGHT TOGETHER BY IMPORTANT COMMON INTERESTS. BOTH MUST SEEK TO PREVENT AS THE SHANGHAI COMMUNIQUE ALREADY POINTED OUT -- THE GLOBAL HEGEMONY OF ANY STATE. BOTH HAVE AN INTEREST

THEREFORE, IT IS ALSO
IN AMERICA'S INTEREST.

-2-

THAT THE TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY AND SOVEREIGNTY OF NATIONS NOT
BE VIOLATED BY THE ARBITRARY USE OF POWER. ( THEY NEED NO FORMAL
AGREEMENT TO ARTICULATE THESE OBJECTIVES. THEY DO EACH OTHER
NO FAVOR BY COOPERATION WITH EACH OTHER; THEY CARRY OUT THEIR
COMMON INTERESTS. )

Similarly, a dynamic

THE VITAL CHINA ACHIEVING ITS Four MODERNIZATIONS contributes to peace, stability and progress in Asia and the world. * THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY RECENT WORLD. OUR TWO COUNTRIES ARE SO IMPORTANT. IN ZH, OR 2 THE COOP W/ EC OR NTZGA FOR OVER-OR BE I ACHIEV PREE OF COURSE, SOME DIFFERENCES OF OPINION WILL CONTINUE. NO DOUBT THE PREMIER WILL EXPRESS THEM WITH CHARACTERISTIC SUBTLETY AND LISTEN TO AMERICAN VIEWS WITH TYPICAL COURTESY. NO ONE EXPECTS A COMPLETE IDENTITY OF VIEWS. CHINA -- AS IT HAS FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS -- WILL PURSUE THE COURSE DICTATED BY ITS PRINCIPALS AND ITS INTERESTS. SO WILL THE UNITED STATES, THOUGH IT HAS A SHORTER HISTORY.

For all AG SOMEONE TO WHOM CLOSE RELATIONS WITH CHINA HAVE BEEN A MATTER OF GREAT PERSONAL IMPORTANCE, THE VISIT OF THE PREMIER IS A MOST

7105993535
HUI GA
38316841:HAK
CS15 GU WSH

0159543 1111 12/28

16841 GINSME
CS15 GU WSH

TO: HAK

TEXT FOR BEIJING REVIEW FOLLOWS:

THE VISIT OF THE CHINESE PRIME MINISTER TO THE UNITED STATES IS AN EVENT OF HISTORIC IMPORTANCE. HE IS THE HIGHEST RANKING OFFICIAL FROM BEIJING EVER TO JOURNEY TO THE UNITED STATES. HE IS THE MOST CHINESE LEADER WITH WHOM PRESIDENT REAGAN HAS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXCHANGE IDEAS. ABOVE ALL, THE ARRIVAL OF PREMIER ZHAO ZIYANG SYMBOLIZES THAT OVER THE PAST DECADE THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA HAVE FOUND THEIR WAY TO A NEW AND MATURE RELATIONSHIP.

IN 1971, WHEN THE FIRST EXCHANGES BETWEEN OUR TWO COUNTRIES TOOK PLACE, THERE WAS --AT LEAST ON THE AMERICAN SIDE--THE EXCITEMENT OF REDISCOVERING AN ANCIENT AND VITAL PEOPLE. THIS SOMETIMES OBSCURED THE FACT THAT IMPORTANT DIFFERENCES AND LEGACIES OF THE PAST REMAINED. AS A RESULT, FOR SOME YEARS THE COUNTRIES SEEMED MORE CONSCIOUS OF WHAT DIVIDED THEM THAN OF THOSE MATTERS ON WHICH THEY COULD MOVE ON PARALLEL. IN A THIRD PHASE, BOTH SIDES REASSESSED THEIR PRECONCEPTIONS. IN RECENT YEARS, THE NEW ADMINISTRATION IN WASHINGTON, OVERCOMING EARLIER PRECONCEPTIONS, HAS COMMITTED ITSELF TO A FIRM AND CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH BEIJING. AND BEIJING'S NEW LEADERS, DEDICATED TO THE MODERNIZATION HAVE MADE THEIR OWN CONTRIBUTION TO RESULTING DIFFERENCES IN A REALISTIC AND FORESIGHTED SPIRIT.

CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES REPRESENT DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES, BUT THEY ARE BROUGHT TOGETHER BY IMPORTANT COMMON INTERESTS. BOTH MUST ... TO PREVENT AS THE SHANGHAI COMMUNIQUE ALREADY POINTED OUT-- THE GLOBAL HEGEMONY OF ANY NATION. BOTH HAVE AN INTEREST THAT THE TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY AND SOVEREIGNTY OF NATIONS NOT BE VIOLATED BY THE ARBITRARY USE OF POWER. THEY NEED NO FORMAL AGREEMENT TO ARTICULATE THESE OBJECTIVES. THEY DO EACH OTHER NO FAVOR BY COOPERATING WITH EACH OTHER. THEY CARRY OUT THEIR COMMON INTERESTS.

THE CAPITAL (?) CHINA ACHIEVING ITS MODERNIZATION
CONTRIBUTES TO PEACE, STABILITY AND PROGRESS IN ASIA AND THE WORLD.
THIS IS WHY THE RECENT ECONOMIC UNDERSTANDINGS BETWEEN OUR TWO
COUNTRIES ARE SO IMPORTANT.

OF COURSE SOME DIFFERENCES OF OPINION WILL CONTINUE. NO DOUBT THE
PREMIER WILL EXPRESS THEM WITH CHARACTERISTIC SUBTLETY AND LISTEN
TO AMERICAN VIEWS WITH TYPICAL. NO ONE EXPECTS A COMPLETE
IDENTITY OF VIEWS. CHINA--AS IT HAS FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS--WILL
PURSUE THE COURSE DICTATED BY ITS PRINCIPLES AND ITS INTERESTS.
SO WILL THE UNITED STATES, THOUGH IT HAS A SHORTER HISTORY.

AS SOMEONE TO WHOM CLOSE RELATIONS WITH CHINA HAVE BEEN A MATTER
OF GREAT PERSONAL IMPORTANCE, THE VISIT OF THE PREMIER IS A MOST
AUSPICIOUS EVENT. WELCOME, MR. PRIME MINISTER, AND MAY YOU TAKE
BACK WITH YOU THE MOST PLEASANT MEMORIES AND THE MOST FRUITFUL
SPIRIT OF FRIENDSHIP.

END OF TEST.

END OF TEXT.

REGARDS, JODY

16841 GINSME
CSIS GU WSH

========
009.3 MIN

Proposals

large part on what happens in El Salvador" and,
privately, that complete collapse is a possibility.

Panel members had "practically a shouting
match" with right-wing businessmen in El Sal-
vador over the issue of "death squads," and left
there with "serious misgivings" about the ability of
the government there to cope with all its prob-
lems, according to senior commission members.

Members of the Salvadoran Chamber of Commerce "tried to tell them they didn't know who the death squad people were or who they were working for, and the commissioners told them .. it was up to the business community to make a little effort," a commission official said.

"I don't think any of us were overly impressed by the Salvadorans," a senior commission member confirmed. "And here this government is asked in a three-month period to do land reform, free elections, death squads, fight a civil war with machinery that has no traditional legitimacy . . . . You could have a collapse in El Salvador, there's absolutely no doubt about that."

This, he said, could be triggered by election as president next March of Roberto D'Aubuisson, who is widely reported linked to the death squads. Congress would be unlikely to send military aid to his government, and that could mean takeover by leftist guerrillas, the commissioner indicated.

Reagan's report on the Salvadoran situation,
which he promised to provide to Congress when
he vetoed certification of human rights progress,
will be submitted Monday as scheduled, State
Department officials said. One said it will be
"more detailed than past reports, not just on the
human rights and land reform issues but on ev-
erything," adding it would be "an objective eval-
uation . . . not an advocacy document."

## Envoys Would Prepare Summit

# Kissinger Urges Review of East-

By William Drozdia

Washington Post Foreign Service

BRUSSELS, Jan. 13—Former secretary of state Henry A. Kissinger proposed today that the United States and Soviet Union appoint special envoys to launch “a global review of their entire relationship” and begin preparations for a summit meeting between their two heads of state.

Kissinger said the representatives should have access to the leaders of both governments so that a serious dialogue could broach fundamental notions such as “how coexistence is to be defined.” He disavowed any personal interest in the post, saying his nomination would not be acceptable to many Republican conservatives.

The peripatetic statesman raised the suggestion here in an address to 200 participants in a conference on the future of NATO and global security, sponsored by the Georgetown Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Besides East-West relation, Kissinger's speech focused on problems within the alliance concerning nuclear weapons and arms control issues

that he readily admitted cause him to be "somewhat apocalyptic."

Kissinger argued that the troubling questions over the future of the alliance arise because "in nearly every country the consensus on defense and foreign policy has broken down."

Suspicions between the United States and European allies had grown out of what he called "two comforting illusions" that have developed over the years about how to cope with the Soviet threat.

"Europe chooses to believe that in the end America will either prevent aggression or resist it with its ultimate [nuclear] weapon if it has no other choice. America chooses the illusion that with intensive consultations Europe will be induced to increase its defense contribution in the conventional field."

"Neither expectation is realistic," he said.

At a similar conference here four years ago, Kissinger's comment that Europe could not necessarily count on U.S. nuclear guarantees sparked a political uproar in alliance circles. Leaders in European antimissile campaigns have seized on the re-

mark to justify pacifist and neutralist sentiments.

Since that time, NATO has proceeded to deploy the first of 572 Pershing II and cruise missiles in Western Europe that are capable of striking Soviet territory. The purpose of the missiles, as Kissinger put it today, is "to prevent nuclear blackmail of Europe by linking the strategic defense of Europe with that of the United States."

But he strongly criticized NATO's decision four years ago to make the deployments conditional on a failure of arms control talks, which he said "supplied an incentive for the Soviets to procrastinate in the negotiations to test the resolve of western governments."

Kissinger conceded that the foreign policy vacillations of recent U.S. administrations had confused and even victimized European leaders who were seeking consistent leadership from Washington.

But he contended that the Reagan administration "has in practice abandoned its confrontational style" and urged European governments to close ranks with the U.S. and seek improved East-West relations.

ON THE ROAD WITH KISSINGER:
# THE DIPLOMATIC
DERVISH

After more than eight years out of high public office, Henry Kissinger is still one of the most sought-after men in the world: Heads of state and captains of industry seek his counsel, while virtually every organizer at the highest levels of the benefit circuit seeks his box-office power. Recently, M spent a few days with the frenetic and peripatetic Doctor, on the road in Texas.

It's Wednesday in Dallas and everything seems to be in order. At the Mansion on Turtle Creek the attendant calm of a midweek twilight has taken hold and activity in the hotel's elegant lobby has dwindled to 10 or 12 people. In deference to the time of day, they talk in tones that can barely be described as whispers. Suddenly, however, the tranquility is lost. The room is filled with the doors. A moment later, several people enter. The room is dark. A person appears and circles the room. A moment later, the lights come on. A person in a white suit and crisp white shirt, Kissinger walks casually through the lobby and walks to the waiting with its engine running. As quickly as he appeared, he is gone. Headed for a speaking engagement. The cars that carry Kissinger and his entourage—two personal security men, several plainclothes Dallas policemen and a group of local businessmen—move at a steady pace through the streets of Highland Park past the homes of such Texas titans as Trammel Crow and the Hunts. The destination is the Dallas Country Club, where Kissinger goes in a side entrance that takes him through the kitchen (a favorite path) and into a small room where he will wait for several minutes. Though this route

is designed to keep him away from the crowd—about 500 people who have paid $100 each for cocktails and a Kissinger speech—he does have to traverse a short hallway where he is spotted by several people who spark a headturning chain reaction that spreads word of his arrival with remarkable haste. A few minutes later, precisely 20 minutes after his departure from the hotel and only an hour and a half after his arrival in Texas from New York, Kissinger is being introduced to speak. This takes almost 10 minutes, during which time he is compared to men like Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton and George Marshall, and called “the leading statesman of our time.” When the buildup finally ends, Kissinger steps up to the podium and says, “If my mother were here, she would consider that introduction a classic case of Anglo-Saxon understatement.” Welcome to the Henry Kissinger road now.

Historian and businessman, strategist and writer, educator and diplomat, Dr. Henry Alfred Kissinger has also become an entertainer of sorts—satisfying audiences all over the world with a routine that includes not only genuine wit, but analysis of East-West relations, nuclear strategy, Central America and almost every other issue critical to American foreign policy. And while he

HARRY BENSON

BY CRAIG HOROWITZ

is not available for county fairs and rib-
bon cuttings, he will do large fund rais-
ers, small fund raisers and breakfasts.
lunches and dinners, as long as the
inducement is right: enough money, an
issue he strongly believes in or an
appearance that will help a friend.

To further loosen up his Dallas audience, Kissinger offers his standard bit about the Constitution barring a foreign-born citizen from becoming president. The joke is beautifully timed and the anticipated laughs come when expected. He feigns dismay at his feckless efforts to rally support in Washington to change this law. "However, there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents a foreign-born citizen from becoming emperor . . . and I'm working on it," he says with a devilish smile.

Though it is more than eight years
since he has held a cabinet post, Kiss-
singer remains a celebrity of nearly
unequalled proportions. When he trav-
els it seems that there is no face more
recognizable and no voice more distinc-
tive. "We've never seen anything like
this," says one of the Dallas business-
men who has sponsored Kissinger's
fund-raising appearance on behalf of
the Davidson College alumni associa-
tion. "We've had former President
Ford, Alexander Haig and a number of
other notable personalities, but none of
them created even a ripple. Our worry
now is what we can do for an encore.
About the only other person we could
think of who would create this kind of
excitement is Michael Jackson."

Kissinger speaks to the Dallas audience for about 45 minutes, striking several points that he will cover again and again during his three days in Texas. They are the same themes that mark his private conversations about the issues. He cannot emphasize either too often or too strongly the necessity for a bipartisan approach to America's foreign policy. When questioned in private about the realism of this insistence in a two-party system, Kissinger is firm that it must be attempted. "A measure of partisanship is built into the system, but for 20 years after World War II we had a pretty substantial bipartisan policy," he says. "There were differences between the various contenders—after all, the 1952 campaign had nasty aspects—but at the end of the day, Dulles' foreign policy was in the main line very similar to Acheson's, and Rusk's was very similar to Dulles'. It was during Vietnam that the consensus disintegrated."

He also tells his Dallas audience that
the other critical factor is continuity;

America, he says, must not only be
strong ("It's nice to be liked, but it's
more important to be successful") but
steady and reliable as well. He predicts
that the Russians will be back at the
negotiating table, depending on who is
leading at the polls, either just prior to
or just after the presidential election. If
Reagan appears assured of victory,
negotiations will begin just prior to the
election; if the Democrat is ahead or the
race is too close to call, the Russians will
wait until after the election. "We owe it
to ourselves not to make negotiations an
election issue."

Kissinger's speech is well received
and as he is making his way out of the
ballroom he is repeatedly stopped for
autographs. He treats these people
warmly, asking for names and also
inquiring if there is a particular inscrip-
tion desired. His next stop is another
room at the country club, where as part
of the package he will answer questions
from 20 business executives. They are
seated around a large conference table
when Kissinger walks in and the atmos-
phere is casual, friendly. They ask
about the Iran-Iraq war (Iran will wear
its opponent down over time); threats to
close the Straits of Hormuz (very
unlikely; however, Iranian intimida-
tion of OPEC's moderate members,
resulting in oil production cuts, is possi-
ble); Lebanon ("I was against putting
the troops in, but I was also against
pulling them out, so you can see how
difficult I am to please"); Israel, Jordan
and the problems in Central America.

While the businessmen appear to be
concerned citizens interested in the
opinions of an expert, one can't help
but get the feeling that there is some-
thing else at work here. They are, after
all, getting to discuss foreign policy with
its most celebrated and controversial
practitioner; the man whose career has
encompassed the Christmas bombings
in Vietnam, the overthrow of Allende
in Chile, the opening of the door to
China, detente with the Russians and
the Nobel Peace Prize in 1973. It seems
to be as much an exercise in star wor-
ship as it is an exchange of ideas.

For Kissinger, it is another matter
entirely. This is the man whose opin-
ions still count; the man who receives
foreign heads of state when they visit
this country, and the man who still
seems to be only temporarily without a
cabinet post. While a third of his speak-
ing engagements are done without a
fee, this particular kind of work bears a
striking resemblance to that of an ex-
athlete who hires himself out to a hotel
to play golf with the preferred guests.

IN TEXAS:

Getting made up for a cable TV appearance

TI

Gett

Arriving in Austin

At the Da

Getting thoughtful at the Library

THE KISSINGER TWO-STEP

Getting on the CBS news

On the party circuit in Highland Park

Getting around Dallas

Huddling with a Dallas sponsor

The Dallas Country Club

A private lounge at the LBJ Library

Dinner with Lady Bird Johnson at the Library

Departure from the Dallas Country Club goes smoothly enough and the mini-motorcade once again snakes through Highland Park, now headed for dinner at the home of one of his Dallas sponsors. The house is a lovely center hall colonial that provides a nice setting for a side of Kissinger that only comes out at night. As cerebral as he is during the day, after sundown he undergoes a transformation, and the Kissinger that emerges has bright blue eyes and a mischievous smile. Though the cocktail party is already in progress, it seems to start all over again when Kissinger walks in. Immediately, wherever he stands is ground zero and all activity emanates from that point. It appears that the 75 guests are occupied solely with trying to get near him. With piano music as background, Kissinger nurses one drink (standard procedure) as he jokes, shakes hands and charms the ladies in an all-out effort to make the people around him feel comfortable. Actually, it appears to be no effort at all.

One favorite technique is a mild self-mocking humor that always puts those around him at ease. "Dr. Kissinger, wherever did you get that wonderful tan?" coos a Texas belle with frosted hair. "I've been in Acapulco and Vail," he says in his best Cambridge accent. "Do you ski?" she asks. "No," he admits. "I went once in Europe at the end of World War II when most places had no lifts and I fell so many times trying to get up the hill that that was enough."

Dinner is in the backyard under a star-filled Texas sky. Rather than numbers, each table has been designated with the name of a former secretary of state. For dessert, the guests get cherries jubilee and the world according to Kissinger. In between sips of coffee, he patiently answers questions from around the yard on the International Monetary Fund, the PLO, the Sandinistas and his support for Ronald Reagan. On his way out, the piano player offers a soft rendition of "America the Beautiful" and presents Kissinger with a cassette that has two songs on it she wrote just for him.

By 8:15 Thursday morning he is on the go again, covering the same issues he discussed the night before, this time at a breakfast for about 50 people. Though he is scheduled to talk for 30 minutes, the give-and-take stimulates him and he stays for an hour—putting him, as usual, behind schedule for the entire day. He is almost never on time and this seems in some small measure to add to his reputation for arrogance.

PHOTOGRAPHY BY GEORGE CHINSEE

From there, it is right out to the lim-
ousine which takes him to a private air-
port for a 35-minute flight to Austin.
On board the Saberliner, which belongs
to a Dallas businessman, Kissinger gets
his first chance to relax since he arrived
in Texas. Ironically, for a man who
probably logs more air time than most
commercial pilots, he is not comfort-
able flying and makes several nervous
jokes about it to the pilot. It is a beauti-
ful day, however, and he sits back with
a cup of black coffee and talks about his
current activities with those accompany-
ing him—including two Dallas people
along only for the ride; when the plane
lands they will go right back to Dallas.
Despite what is taken for common wis-
dom in New York and Washington,
Kissinger maintains that he is not bored
and he does not miss power.

"I concentrate various activities in three- and four-day periods so there is always variety," he says buckling his seat belt for takeoff. "So, for example, three weeks from now I might be at a lot of board meetings and business type conferences. There are other periods when I'm in Washington as well as periods when I'm totally alone and write. I'd probably

get bored with any one of these phases
after a while, but there's always vari-
ety."

Though it is only two years since his
heart bypass surgery, he shows abso-
lutely no signs of slowing down. In
addition to his speaking engagements
and his work on a number of presiden-
tial commissions, he also sits on the
boards of Chase Manhattan Bank,
American Express, 20th Century Fox
and International House. He is a
trustee of the Rockefeller Brothers
Fund, the Metropolitan Museum of
Art and a contributing analyst for ABC
News. "I don't know what my life
would be like if I could not convince
myself that what I'm doing makes a dif-
ference," he says. "The worst thing I
could imagine is to do nothing and play
golf all day."

There is also the business of Kissinger and Associates, his consulting company. Though he hesitates when asked for specifics about its activities and fees, he does offer a general expla-

nation of what the company does. "We give advice mostly to corporations about the political implications of their economic activities. They don't hire us for economic advice, they hire us to tell them what the probable consequences will be if they do certain things. Also, if they have a choice of certain areas in which they can operate, we tell them which ones we think are the most stable." Though rumor is that the company has a minimum consulting fee of $250,000, Kissinger says that's too high. "There is a minimum and we meet with them usually six times a year to go over the world situation."

Despite all this activity, the River
House apartment in New York, a house
in Washington and a country house
under construction in Connecticut,
there is still the question of power.

"When you're in office, you have the satisfaction of knowing that you couldn't be doing anything more important," he says, "especially if you're in high office. And it takes a while (after leaving office) to get used to the fact that when you read something in the newspaper, you can't pick up the phone and try to change it. On the other hand, if you

stay in office too long you use up your
capital—you stop thinking, you stop
being creative and you're really acting
by rote. I've been out of office now for a
number of years and I'm very content
with my style of life. I'd in fact be
extremely reluctant to serve again on a
full-time basis."

Leaving the door to government
service open at least a crack, Kissinger
turns his attention to the plane's
approach into Austin. He is more at
ease than he was for takeoff, and he
points out something that he says about
himself repeatedly: "I am not a political
figure. I will, of course, support Presi-
dent Reagan, but I am interested pri-
marily in foreign policy and would like
to keep it on a bipartisan basis. I do,
however, believe that President
Reagan is best qualified to lead us in the
next four years. He is to be preferred
over either of the Democratic con-
tenders and I will make that clear, but I
will not be a day-to-day campaigner."

The landing is soft and the cars are

"The most important
quality in a leader
is courage. Allied with
that has to be
character, and I would
put intelligence
third. You can always
hire experts.
You cannot, however,
hire courage or
character."

With Margaret Thatcher in London, 1975

With King Hussein in Washington, 1974

With Robert McNamara at the LBJ Library

With Richard Nixon at the White House

With the Shah of Iran in Zurich

CORNELL

CUMMington

BAC 1980

1986

44

M JULY 1984

waiting on the tarmac for the Kissinger arrival. In the limousine on the way to the hotel, Kissinger continues his discussion of Reagan as a leader. "I think President Reagan is a type that is unfamiliar to most of our journalists and most of our intellectuals. First of all, you have to look at his career. To go from his origins to president of the United States is an enormous feat. To keep himself alive as a presidential candidate through four campaigns is extraordinary. This could not have been done by a weak man. Whether you agree with every last thing he does or not, the fact is that government now gives an impression of calm and purpose. He's not an academic type, but he has leadership capabilities."

The key to this discussion is what

Kissinger, who has known nearly all of the world's major heads of state over the last 25 years, considers important in a leader. "The most important quality in a leader is courage. Allied with that has to be character, and I would put intelligence third. You can always hire experts. You cannot, however, hire courage or character," he

says. "The decisions that come up before a president are the close ones. All of the easy decisions are made at lower levels. So when a decision reaches the president, the pros and cons are very evenly divided. This means that he must have the inward assurance, the moral framework to act in uncertain situations. And no amount of intelligence in the abstract can help you here."

Kissinger checks into the hotel quickly, makes a couple of phone calls in his suite, then heads for the LBJ Library at the University of Texas in Austin. He is scheduled to have lunch with Lady Bird Johnson and then to sit on a panel to discuss nuclear weapons. In the limousine, someone asks Kissinger if he has read the Robert Caro biography of Lyndon Johnson. "I haven't read it," he says, "but a friend of mine just finished it and said he came away with a renewed respect for Johnson. I don't have to worry about that happening to anyone who reads the Seymour Hersh book ("The Price of Power") about me," he says, laughing. When asked if the book's one-sided

nature doesn't effectively negate its impact, Kissinger says, "My concern is not for anyone who reads it now, but for scholars who will use it as research material in the future." To limit its possible detrimental effect on what Kissinger sees as his place in history, he points out that he is having a researcher annotate the book chapter by chapter for the Library of Congress.

Mrs. Johnson is an old friend and their embrace is a warm one. Joining them for lunch are Robert McNamara, Assistant Secretary of Defense Lawrence Korb and Colorado Congresswoman Pat Schroeder, all of whom will sit on the same panel. In good spirits, Kissinger jokes with the panel's moderator, who is also at the table. "You must make sure that Schroeder comes

off as a wild-eyed liberal, Korb as the war-monger and then I will look like the moderate."

Kissinger goes straight from the tacos and enchiladas at lunch to a crowded press conference, and then on to the LBJ auditorium where a standing-room-only audience of 3,000 has gathered for the panel on nuclear arms. Several of the

other panelists speak first and all seems routine enough as the discussion deals with arms limitations, negotiations with the Russians and the possibility of a nuclear freeze.

However, when Kissinger is introduced there is sudden pandemonium in the auditorium. First a woman in the center of the audience stands up and starts screaming at Kissinger about a variety of issues ranging from Vietnam to El Salvador. As she is joined by someone else in her chant, several large banners labeling Kissinger a murderer unfold as if from nowhere. Then several people in white pantomime face makeup start marching down the aisle toward the stage. Quickly, a wall of security men forms at the front of the stage—including Kissinger's own people and Mrs. Johnson's secret service men. The marchers stop in their tracks and in unison all point their right index finger at Kissinger and begin to scream at him. It takes fully 10 minutes to clear the auditorium of the disturbance and in the end 12 people are dragged out and arrested. Throughout the proceed-

L to r: With Italian ambassador Rinaldo Petriglia; Barbara Wa

> "I think Nixon handled Watergate very erratically and he could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he had been more forthright. But you know, in Greek tragedy a person fulfills his nature."

L to r: With Nancy Reagan at Newsweek anniversary

L to r: With Marella Agnelli at Library in New York;

NEGOTIATING WITH THE RUSSIANS

Despite all the signs to the contrary, Henry Kissinger believes that the Soviet Union will return to the arms negotiations table either just before or just after the U.S. presidential election.

"We hear we're back in the cold war," Kissinger says, "but I don't believe it. Relations are not good at this moment, but except for one brief period during the Nixon administration, they have never been good."

Kissinger's optimism is based on what he sees as the current "realities" of the Soviet situation: political instability within the Soviet system and the continuing slide in the Soviet economy. "The Soviet leaders cannot want a crisis now."

And while the experts often talk about what effect a change in Soviet leadership will have or how the personality of a particular American president will affect relations, and other similar variables, Kissinger maintains that these factors have little or no effect. "The last thing a Soviet leader can say to his fellow Politburo members is that he just met a charming American president. Personal charm and personal relationships don't work. Nixon was the most successful with the Russians and he wouldn't even claim himself that he is personally charming."

Kissinger feels the same rules apply when there is a change in Russian leadership. "Whenever there is a

wars have been started by people with wooden houses and wall-to-wall carpeting versus people with stone houses and rugs on the floor."

Based on his experience sitting across a table from the Russians, Kissinger believes there is only one way to negotiate with them—from strength. "The Russian tactic is always to try to stampede their opponent," he says. "If the Soviets believe we will break every deadlock with a new proposal, there will be plenty of deadlocks. I have spent many years negotiating with Gromyko and in all that time he never once showed any embarrassment about offering the same proposal day after day," Kissinger says. "Try that as an American negotiator and the media will be all over you about offering the same old tired proposals."

And even though the American-Soviet situation remains tense, Kissinger thinks the possibility of a major confrontation is unlikely. "The likelihood of war is extremely low due to the nature of modern weapons."

With Gromyko: the same proposal, day after day

new Soviet leader, our experts speculate about the changes as if one man could change a whole society. In their system, power doesn't even come with the office. It takes many years to acquire," Kissinger says. "When Andropov took over, there were articles written that said he listened to jazz records, he had a stone house and Persian rugs on the floor. Someone should do a study on how many

ings, Kissinger's face remains expressionless. When he is reintroduced, he receives a standing ovation and says, "I would like to point out with respect to the sort of things you see here . . . these methods that were refined in the 1960s and had great success in attacking the motives and purposes of leaders of whatever administration and of whatever party are bound to ruin us."

Despite the trouble, Kissinger stays on the stage when the panel ends, to sign autographs and talk with some members of the audience. On the way back upstairs in an elevator, he says to a reporter traveling with him, "You weren't planning on that kind of excitement, were you?" When it is pointed out that he remained remarkably implacable during the outburst, he simply says, "I'm used to it." In a private room, he and McNamara joke about the incident. "I'm glad that reception was for you. I've had more than my share," McNamara says. Kissinger responds in kind. "Find a member of the local media," he says to no one in particular, "and leak word that the demonstration was orchestrated by McNamara." The joking ends quickly, however, when Kissinger is informed

that he cannot leave the building. Apparently the demonstrators have located his car and are lying down in front of it. "What do you suggest?" he asks his head of security. "We will get another car and you can leave through a different exit," the man responds. This satisfies Kissinger for a moment, but then he says, "If this cannot be done in five minutes, forget it. I will go downstairs and out of the building the way I came in. We will go right through them. I will not allow these people to hold me hostage in this building." The switch is accomplished in time, however, and he is able to leave without further incident.

If nothing else, the trouble at UT points up the reason Kissinger maintains a security staff of five men at a cost of close to $300,000 a year. Though he has been accused of having security simply to massage his ego, the need seems real enough. Armed with .38s in shoulder holsters, the security force also uses .357 magnums, and Israeli-made Uzi nine-millimeter sub-machine guns for international travel. The five men handle the same workload that used to be the province of 45 men when Kissinger was secretary of state. It is an

exhausting duty that entails not only 15-hour days year-round, but the frequent wrath of the boss.

By his own admission, Kissinger is a tough man to work for. A former aide tells a story about his first assignment that illustrates the point. The man had been working for Kissinger for only a short period of time when he was asked to write his first report. After working on it night and day for two weeks, he took it to the boss. Without looking at it, Kissinger asked the aide, "Is this the best possible work that you can do?" Not knowing if he should be bold and say yes or show some humility, the aide replied that he could probably do a little better. "Fine," Kissinger said, "bring it back when it's the very best you can possibly do." Supposedly this process repeated itself 10 times until finally the aide responded that it was his best work and Kissinger said, "Okay, now I'll read it."

"I'm very tough on people of whom I think very highly," Kissinger says. "If people work at the top of what I consider to be their capacity, I leave them alone. I do, however, push people to fulfill the best that is in them and that, I think, is the responsibility of the head of

any or less. Less dramatic, LBJ an apolitical husband, Nancy has been since he and sa have a lot of points made more or conversative what he's grinnin' day enoug' without.

His including the Austor at the Philip Morris Central East-West presidio he takes a newborn house. "It's true because so depreciated taken to

Back before he left. He takes on one child asked Richard "We take weeks and a month does K. Nixon from now departu' much better. As it turns out treated ago." Kissinger he hands the trouble to. But your son fulfils the d.

The issue of problem that by those tion to e

GREAT LEADERS:
KISSINGER'S CHOICES

When Kissinger judges a leader, the first thing he looks for is courage. He most admires these five foreign leaders for their sense of history and their willingness to build a future as well.

Anwar Sadat

Golda Meir

Chou En Lai

Charles de Gaulle

Konrad Adenauer

involved in each issue—because it is difficult in a continental country like the U.S. for them to judge the significance of events in different parts of the world—public opinion must also be analyzed thoughtfully,” he says. “The public will not forgive their leaders for failures even if it appears they recommended those actions that lead to the failures. Because if the public understood the consequences of some of its pressures, they wouldn’t press them in the first place. They do, however, expect their leaders to understand the consequences. It’s a tricky business.”

One that is made even trickier by the democratic process, which relies on an informed public. “It’s one of the big problems of the modern world,” Kissinger says. “When the democratic system was developed in the 18th and 19th Centuries, there were very few issues and those were relatively simple. On top of that, the franchise was restricted. Now you have mass electorates and extremely complicated issues, and it’s a great test for the democratic system.” Kissinger is optimistic, however. “There seems to be on the part of the American public a sort of good horse sense. And Americans are not losers. They still believe in their society and they still think that what America does makes a difference.”

Nancy walks into the room and the conversation turns to their life in New York. “We have many good friends in New York and what we like about night life is that unlike Washington, it is not an extension of your business life,” Kissinger says as his son David, who has also flown in for the weekend, appears. Like any doting father, Kissinger chides his son, who works for member of British Parliament George Walden as an aide, about getting a haircut and tells him to put on a tie.

“In New York you see people at night because you want to see them.” For Kissinger this often includes people in show business and fashion, and members of cafe society, a choice of companions that has led some people to question not only his seriousness, but the size of his ego as well. “These are the creative people, the people who make things better,” he counters. “For me, they make life very pleasant and political life bearable.”

Before leaving for the LBJ ranch, he offers one last thought on his ambitions. “If you ask me what I really want, it is for my son to marry a rich girl.” Nancy glares at him for a moment and then they both walk out of the room laughing. M

any organization.”

Less than an hour and a half after the demonstration, Kissinger is back at the LBJ Library for cocktails, dinner and an appearance on a cable television broadcast. He is now accompanied by his wife Nancy, who has just arrived in Texas to spend the weekend with her husband at the LBJ ranch. When Nancy is introduced to a reporter who has been traveling with her husband since his arrival in Texas, she smiles and says, “My goodness, you must have nuclear strategy coming out of your ears by now.” And when it is pointed out that his hectic schedule is more of a problem than his topics of conversation, she says, “You can imagine what it’s like to live with it.” “Thanks, Nancy,” Kissinger says grinning. “That’s a great quote.” The day ends at around 10:30 that night without any more surprises.

His schedule for Friday is light, including a breakfast with members of the Austin Council on Foreign Affairs at the home of LBJ's brother-in-law Philip Bobbitt. Kissinger again covers Central America, the Middle East, East-West relations and the coming presidential election. Before he leaves, he takes five minutes to see a litter of newborn puppies in the back of the house. “I’m a dog lover,” he says. “It’s tough with Tyler (his own dog) because I’m away so often. Tyler gets so depressed when I leave that I’ve now taken to hiding the suitcases.”

Back at the hotel, he has an hour before leaving to go to the LBJ ranch. He takes off his jacket and plops down on one of the couches in his suite. When asked about his relationship with Richard Nixon, Kissinger is direct. “We talk on the telephone every two weeks and we see each other about once a month. We’re in close contact.” How does Kissinger the historian think Nixon will be treated 20 or 30 years from now? “I said at the time of his departure that history will treat him much better than his contemporaries. As it turns out, he is already being treated better than he was 10 years ago.” When Watergate is brought up, Kissinger heaves a heavy sigh. “I think we handled Watergate very erratically and he could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he had been more forthright. But you know, in Greek tragedy a person fulfills his nature.”

The discussion of Nixon leads to the issue of public opinion. Kissinger maintains that it must be shaped and guided by those who are in power. “In addition to explaining to the public what’s

ROBERT F. SIONE

ROBERT F. SIONE

JULY 1984 M 49

HOROWITZ QUESTIONS FOR REVIEW

FOR M MAGAZINE

1. In response to the question about whether it is realistic to assume we can achieve bipartisan foreign policy:

- A measure of partisanship is built into the system, but for 20 years after WW II we had a pretty substantial bipartisan foreign policy. There were differences between the various contenders; after all, the 1952 campaign had nasty aspects. But at the end of the day Dulles' foreign policy was in the mainline very similar to Acheson's and Rusk's was very similar to Dulles'. It is during Vietnam that the consensus disintegrated and hasn't been restored.

2. In response to whether or not he is bored:

- I concentrate various activities in three and four day periods so there is always variety. For example, three weeks from now I might be at a lot of board meetings and business type conferences. There are other periods when I'm totally alone and write. I probably get bored with any one of these phases after awhile, but there is always variety.

Continuing further on about boredom:

- I don't know what my life would be like if I could not convince myself that what I'm doing makes a difference. The worst thing I could imagine is to do nothing and play golf all day.

3. Re: Kissinger and Associates:

- We give advice mostly to corporations about the political implications of their economic activities. They don't hire us for economic advice; they hire us to tell them what the probable consequences will be if they do certain things. Also, if they have a choice of certain areas in which they can operate, we tell them which ones we think are the most viable.

-2-

4. Back to boredom:

--When you are in office, you have the satisfaction of knowing that you couldn't be doing anything more important, especially if you are in high office. And it takes a while to get used to the fact that when you read something in the newspaper you can't pick up the phone and try to change it. On the other hand, if you stay in office too long, you stop being creative and you are really acting by rote. I have been out of office now for a number of years, and I am very content with my style of life. I'd in fact be extremely reluctant to serve in government again on a full-time basis.

5. Ronald Reagan:

--I am not a political figure. I will, of course, support President Reagan, but I am interested primarily in foreign policy and would like to keep it on a bipartisan basis. I do, however, believe that President Reagan is best qualified to lead us in the next four years. He is to be preferred over either of the democratic contenders, and I will make that clear, but I will not be a day-to-day campaigner.

6. Still on Reagan--whether or not he is smart enough:

--I think President Reagan is the type that is unfamiliar to most of our journalists and most of our intellectuals. First of all, you have to look at his career--to go from his origins to President of the United States is an enormous feat. To keep himself alive as a Presidential candidate through 4 campaigns is extraordinary. This could not have been done by a weak man. Whether you agree with every last thing he does or not, the fact is that government now gives an impression of calm and purpose. He is not an academic type, but he has leadership capabilities.

7. What is important in a leader?

--The most important quality in a leader is courage. Allied with that has to be character and I would put intelligence third. You can always hire experts, you cannot, however, hire courage or character. The decisions that come up before a President are the close ones: all of the easy decisions are made at lower levels. So

-3-

7. (Continued)

when a decision reaches the President, the pros and cons are very evenly divided. This means that he must have the inward assurance and the moral framework to act in uncertain situations. And no amount of intelligence in the abstract can help you here.

8. In the car a discussion of Robert Karow's biography of Lyndon B. Johnson:

--I haven't read it, but a friend of mine just finished it and said he came away with a renewed respect for Johnson. I don't, however, have to worry about that happening to anyone who reads the Seymour Hersh book about me. (This is presented in a light context--"he says laughing.")

In response to question about it (Hersh book) being one-sided and negating.

--My concern is not for anyone who reads it now, but for scholars who will use it as research material in the future.

--Horowitz *paraphrases* that you are having someone annotate the book.

9. In your conversation with the panel's moderator:

--Lead sentence: In good spirits, Kissinger jokes with the panel's moderator: "You must make sure that Shroeder comes off as a wild-eyed liberal, Korb as the war-monger and then I will look like the moderate."

10. After the panel was over, Kissinger was joking with McNamara:

--McNamara: I'm glad that reception was for you. I've had more than my share.

Kissinger: Find a member of the local media and leak word that the demonstration was orchestrated by McNamara.

11. Problem with getting out of the building: They suggest getting HK another car, etc., etc. About 20 minutes later HK says:

--"If this cannot be done in the next five minutes, forget it. I will go downstairs and out of the room."

-4-

11. (Continued)

12. Anecdote about how tough he is to work for:

--I'm very tough on people of whom I think very
highly. If people work at the top of what
I consider to be their capacity, I leave them
alone. I do, however, push people to fulfill
the best that is in them and that, I think,
is the responsibility of the head of any
organization.

13. Exchange with NK:

--NK: My goodness, you must have nuclear
strategy coming out of your ears by now.
(When pointed out that his schedule is more
of a problem than his topics of conversation):

NK: Well, you can imagine what it's like to
live with it.

HK: Thanks, Nancy. That's a great quote.

14. Richard Nixon:

--We talk on the telephone every two weeks and we
see each other about once a month. We are
in close contact.

How historians will treat Nixon:

--I said at the time of his departure that
history will treat him much better than his
contemporaries. As it turns out, he is al-
ready being treated better than he was 10
years ago.

Re: Watergate and if Nixon could have avoided it:

--I think he handled Watergate very erratically
and he could have saved himself a lot of trouble
if he had been more forthright. But you know
in Greek tragedy, a person fulfills his nature.

-5-

15. Public opinion:

--In addition to explaining to the public what's involved in each issue because it is very difficult in a continental country like the United States for them to judge the significance of events in different parts of the world, public opinion must also be analyzed thoughtfully. The public will not forgive their leaders for failures, even if it appears they recommended those that led to the failures because if the public understood the consequences of some of its pressures, they wouldn't press them in the first place. They do, however, expect their leaders to understand the consequences. It's a tricky business.

Whether or not the public is smart enough:

--Its one of the big problems of the modern world. When the democratic system was developed in the 18th and 19th centuries, there were very few issues and those were relatively simple. On top of that the franchise was restricted. Now you have mass electorates and extremely complicated issues and it is a great test for the democratic system.

There seems to be on the part of the American public a sort of good horse-sense and Americans are not losers. They still believe in their society and they still think that what America does makes a difference.

16. Re: Liking New York City--not liking Washington:

--In New York you see people at night because you want to see them. What we like about nightlife is that unlike Washington, it's not an extension of your businesslife.

Re: Choice of friends:

--These are the creative people; the people who make things better. For me they make life very pleasant and political life bearable.

-6-

17. Re: David:

--If you ask me what I really want, it is for
my son to marry a rich girl. (Used in the
spirit intended.)

18. Side bar: Re--Current East-West Relations:

--We hear we're back in the cold war, but I
don't believe it. Relations are not good
at this particular moment, but except for
one brief period during the Nixon adminis-
tration, they have never been good.

Later:

--The Soviet leaders cannot want a crisis now. Whenever there is a new Soviet leader, our experts speculate about the changes, as if one man could change a whole society. In their system, power doesn't even come with the office. It takes many years to acquire. When Andropov took over, there were articles written that he listened to jazz records, he had a stone house and Persian rugs on the floor. Someone should do a study on how many wars have been started by people with wooden houses and wall-to-wall carpeting versus people with stone houses and rugs on the floor.

Negotiating:

--The Russian tactic is always to try to stampede their opponent. If the Soviets believe we will break every deadlock with a new proposal, there will be plenty of deadlocks. I have spent many years negotiating with Gromyko, and in all the time he never once showed any embarrassment about offering the same proposal day after day. Try that as an American negotiator and the media will be all over you about offering the same old tired proposals.

19. HK was being introduced to speak at a Dallas country club--
A very long introduction comparing him to great statesmen:

--HK: If my mother were here for that introduction, she would undoubtedly consider it a classic case of Anglo-Saxon understatement.

-7-

20. Somebody asked HK where he got so tan:

--I've been in Acapulco and Vail.

Do you ski?

--No; I went once in Europe at the end of WW II when most places had no lifts and I fell so many times trying to get up the hill that that was enough.

21. Re: Discussion about negotiations with the Soviets. HK talked about the Presidential race and it having an effect on the Soviet negotiations:

--We owe it to ourselves not to make negotiations with the Soviets an election issue.

22. On Lebanon and the US troops:

--I was against putting the troops in, but I was also against pulling them out. So you can see how difficult I am to please.

23. Re: Sitting on a panel at the University of Texas in Austin--there were demonstrations against HK before HK spoke:

--I would like to point out with respect to the sort of thing you see here -- these methods that were refined in the 1960s and had great success in attacking the motives and purposes of leaders of whatever administration and of whatever party are bound to ruin us.

THE SUN, Friday, March 9, 1984

U.S. has received intelligence from
LaRouche group, White House confirms

From the Chicago Tribune

Washington — The White House

has confirmed that the National Secu-
rity Council staff and the Central In-
telligence Agency have held several
meetings with members of the mil-


tantly right-wing organization of Lyn-
don LaRouche to gather economic in-

telligence on foreign governments.

A half-dozen of these sessions were
conducted by Norman Bailey, former
senior director of international eco-
nomic affairs on the National Securi-
ty Council staff and special assistant
to President Reagan, Mr. Bailey con-
firmed Wednesday.

Mr. Bailey, who left the White
House in October, is an international-
economics adviser to the Reagan-
Bush reelection campaign.

He said Mr. LaRouche and his fol-
lowers have "an excellent private in-
telligence system,"

A spokesman for the LaRouche
campaign here said he is the founder
of the National Democratic Policy
Committee, a political action com-
mittee, as well as a "philosophical or-
ganization" called the International
Caucus of Labor Committees, which
has headquarters in Wiesbaden, Ger-
many, and offices in more than 12
other cities in Europe, Asia and Latin
America.

Mr. Bailey's meetings and the
CIA's meetings with LaRouche fol-
lowers, disclosed in a report by NBC's
"First Camera" program last Sunday
night, were confirmed Wednesday by
White House spokesman Larry
Speakes and a CIA spokesman.

The program about Mr. LaRouche,
who is seeking the Democratic presi-
dential nomination this year, brought
an outcry from Democratic National
Chairman Charles Manatt, who con-
demned "the activities of this fanati-
cal cult, which . . . practices various

forms of intimidation, including
character attacks and harassment of
the news media."

Monday Mr. Manatt called on
President Reagan to end "this shock-
ing White House involvement with the
bizarre, extremist cult of Lyndon H.
LaRouche." Mr. Manatt condemned
the implication that "members of this
group have had some degree of influ-
ence on the administration."

Mr. LaRouche, who headed the
now-defunct U.S. Labor Party and
ran for president in 1976 and 1980,
has warned that the Soviet Union is
planning to provoke a nuclear con-
frontation with the United States in
coming months.

LaRouche publications over the
years have attacked Mr. Manatt and
other public figures, including former
Secretary of State Henry Kissinger,
actress Jane Fonda and former envoy
Averill Harriman. Mr. LaRouche and
his followers also have numerous con-
spiracy theories involving organized
labor, the Rockefeller family, the
Carter administration and Britain's
Queen Elizabeth II, whom he has ac-
cused of being a drug dealer.

Mr. Speakes, the White House
spokesman, told reporters that Mr.
Bailey is now a private consultant in
Washington, and that the administra-
tion's "viewpoint is that, from time to
time, we talk to various people who
may have information that might
prove helpful to us or might not prove
helpful to us. Any American citizen,
we'd be glad to talk to."

By William Drozdiak