Ian Smith, after meeting with Dr. Kissinger

(October 12, 1978)

Reporter: What could you tell us of the substance of your talk with Dr. Kissinger?

Prime Minister Smith: We had a very good straight talk with Dr. Kissinger. It was reminiscent of the past. I always got on very well with him -- no beating about the bush, straight to the point. He expressed great understanding for us and what we are trying to do.

Reporter (Kondracke): Do you continue to say that what you are now doing in the internal settlement is in fulfillment of the agreements that you made with him when he was Secretary of State?

Smith: Yes. It is in keeping with everything which British and American governments and other free world governments have been saying to us for many years: accept one-man-one-vote and then we will recognize you. That's the basis of it. All right, the agreement we made was the same as that. But we've had it before, we've had it since; we're getting it today. We're implementing that. What more do they want? A free vote, as opposed to taking over the country through the barrel of a gun.

Reporter: Do you feel that he gave you a specific assurance to this effect three years ago?

Smith: Well, he was consistent...It was given...it was requested to do that before. Dr. Kissinger on behalf of the British government again required me to do that, and British and American governments ever since have continued to request that we do that. There is no inconsistency there.

Reporter (Kondracke): Did Dr. Kissinger recall that...did Dr. Kissinger say that what you were doing *now* was in fulfillment of the request that he made of you as Secretary of State? That what you are doing now is consistent with what he expected when he was Secretary of State.

Smith: I believe that was so.

Dr. Kissinger after meeting with Ian Smith

(October 12, 1971)

(First Q&A inaudible)

Barrie Dunsmore (ABC-TV): What he is saying publicly is that what he has done in the internal settlement is basically what you had asked him to do. And therefore he should be supported by the United States. Is that the case?

Dr. Kissinger: Basically he has been asked...First of all, I don't think that is the issue. The issue is -- for the United States -- whether we should support a solution through the ballot or whether we should support a solution through people who want to force to fight their way in with bullets. That is the fundamental issue that we have to decide. Yes, we asked him to have one-man-one-vote. We proposed majority rule in Rhodesia. We also proposed that the black and white communities should be able to live together. Because we foresaw what would happen in South Africa and we want to avoid a race war which would have profound consequences. We had tried to move in this direction. Since then, of course some of the black leaders that we felt would be part of it have formed a different organization and are now outside the structure. So I would say the conditions have somewhat changed. But I would still say that we should support a solution based on elections rather than on guerrilla war.

Kondracke: Is the internal settlement the kind of agreement that you had in mind when you were in office?

Kissinger: What I had in mind was a solution based on free elections and protecting the rights of all communities; on the basis of majority rule. Now this is what they say they want. I think we should test that. And I think that the leaders, the black leaders who are now outside the country, should be invited to participate in this process; I don't think it should be limited only to black leaders inside the country. But I do not think that people just because they have Cuban and Soviet arms should be able to set the conditions of the settlement.

Dunsmore: What would you consider the consequences of the current policy?

Kissinger: Well, I think there's a danger....It's probably...
To deal with a small country like Rhodesia, when Britain, the

United States, Cuba and Russia all combine, that's one thing. But then after that is the problem of South Africa, and I have always believed that the problem of Rhodesia should be settled in a manner that is compatible with an eventual solution of the South African problem also. And therefore I think it is important that it is done on an evolutionary basis and not by a recourse to arms. That has been my position.

Kondracke: Is there anything really inherently wrong with the Anglo-American plan and the idea of calling an all-parties conference?

Kissinger: I am in favor of an all-parties conference. But what is objected to by some people about the Anglo-American plan is that the security forces should be put in the hands of the people who are armed by the Cubans. That is the concern. I think if the questions of security could be settled, so that the security is not turned over to those who are armed by the Cubans and trained by the Russians, then I think there are considerable possibilities. But an all-party conference is certainly one solution if it is entered without preconditions.

Reporter: It is your objection, then, that the United States by appearing to side with Nkomo and Mugabe has limited its ability to play even handed diplomacy or....

Kissinger: Nkomo and Mugabe are relying on guerrilla warfare. And it makes it harder to get a solution that is based on the cooperation of the various people. I'm not saying we should support the internal solution; I'm just saying we should give its policy... This approach an opportunity.

Reporter: Can I ask one more question?

Kissinger: I have to give a class! (Laughter)

(October 12, 1978)

[Y]

**Reporter:** What did you tell us of the substance of your talk with Dr. Kissinger?

**PM Smith:** We had a very good straight talk with Dr. Kissinger.

It was reminiscent of the past. I always got on very well with him -- not beating about the bush, straight to the point. He expressed great understanding of course for us of what we are trying to do.

**Rptr:** Do you continue to say that what you are now doing in the internal settlement is in fulfillment of the agreements that you made with him when he was Secretary of State?

**Smith:** Yes. It is in keeping with everything with British and American governments and other three world governments have been saying to us for many years: Accept one-man-one-vote and then we will recognize you. That's the basis of it. All right, agreement we made was the same as that. But we've had it before, we've had it since; We're getting it today. We're implementing agree to that.

What more do they want? A free vote, as opposed to taking over the country with a barrel of a gun.

**Rptr:** Do you feel that he gave you a specific assurance of this effect three weeks ago?

**Smith:** He was consistent. It was given... it was requested to do that before. Dr. Kissinger on behalf of the British government, again asked me to do that, and the British and American governments ever since have continued to request that we do that. There is no inconsistency there.

(Kondracke):

**Rptr:** Did Dr. K recall that... did Dr. K say that what you were doing now was in fulfillment of the request that he made of you as Secretary of State. That what you are doing now is consistent with what he expected when he was Secretary of State.

**Smith:** I believe that was so.

leaders that we felt would be part of it had formed
a different organization now outside the structure.

So I would say this
would still say that we should support a solution based on elections rather
than on guerrilla war.
Rptr: Is the internal settlement the kind of agreement that

K: What I had in mind was a solution based on free elections
and protecting the rights of all communities on the basis
of majority rule. Now this is what they say they want. I
think they should test that. And I think that the leaders
the black leaders who are now outside the country, should be
invited to participate in this process. I don't think it should
be limited to only black leaders inside the country. But I
do not think that people just because they have cuban and
from Soviet arms should be able to set the condition for the
settlement.

Dunsmore: What would you consider the consequences of the
current trades policy.

Rptr: It is your objection, then, that the United States by
~~and Muga be~~
appearing to side with Nkomo, more than others has limited
its ability to play even handed diplomacy or ... .

K: Nkomo and Muga be are relying on guerrilla warfare.
And it makes it harder to get a solution that is based on
make the party to

under the cooperation of the various people. I'm not
saying we should go to support the internal I'm just saying that its
going to support
policy ... this approach is an opportunity.

Rptr: Can I ask one more question?

K: I'll give a class! (laughter)
Then I'll have to reply.