AD: So they're brief, Six and a half minutes. And about 75 to 80 percent are happening outside of clinic hours. The longest conversations people have. KC: Yeah. And is Woebot good for roleplay? AD: Actually, we have found. So Woebot was built to be rules-based. Everything Woebot says and under the supervision. And so it's very safe. It's on the rails. Woebot will never make up something new. KC: Fantastic. AD: But we have been, you know. And it turns out generative AI. And it kind of speaks to some and that they're really good that humans aren't so great at. And I think roleplays are one. KC: Do people disclose more quickly? AD: Yeah. So that was shown in an early study that people would rather than when they believe. And that's particularly that are perceived as very stigmatized. And so, yeah, there's a sort in that it's never judging you. You don't have to think. So yeah. KC: When I think about it, I think there’s at least. One is price, always, like, who gets these transcripts? One is control. Like, who defines what an AI responds and what theories and theses of change. But the one that scares the hell out of me. And sometimes I wonder if we might for a total rejection of humanity, of like, dumb, boring, incomplete, half-asleep humans, when you could have this thing. Do you feel like people, they never want to leave it? AD: Definitely not. But that's how it was designed, right? So Woebot would have been designed --. It all depends on what are you. And if you're building it for, you know, human advancement. You want the, success looks like and growth. And that's partly, you know, challenging the idea of perfection. You know, a great AI that perfection is just an illusion. That's what makes us human and that's, you know. But of course, to your point, it really depends on who is the designer and what is this AI being built for. That is going to be. KC: Which goes to business model. AD: Sure. KC: So who pays for Woebot? AD: Well, currently Woebot's distributed in partnership with health systems. But that's right, we build for, again, let people talk and be invited to use a skill that's inspired by one of these like cognitive behavioral therapy, and then get them back. We never build for engagement, keeping people in the conversation which we just think is sort. And that's all about the incentive. That's how are you being paid. And as entrepreneurs, we all have a responsibility to ensure not the other way around. KC: Yeah. I'm thinking about Lenore Skenazy, who I now have this huge crush on, I bet we all do. And she said that the best sentence "I did it myself." And I wonder if we create this dependence on AI therapy companions that you’ll never be able. None of us will. AD: Well, I still think the humans. Because that's the beauty of an AI. It’s not a great. Well, this isn't really therapy, right? Structurally, it is so different. But a great process is just. They have to --. They're the ones. They're the ones or acknowledge their role or, you know, tune in to their deepest. And that stuff is hard. And that is all on the person. The AI is just going to ask you. So you know, I don't think -- or giving a diagnosis. It's very much and should be about helping. It’s like, I use the analogy of, you know, those mechanical machines so they can practice their swing to get better at the game with the human. You know, these are, fundamentally, tools. I believe that, and I think. And make sure that that is if you like, is human betterment. KC: Is there anything you do explicitly? AD: Oh, right. Well, yeah, exactly. That would be part of, you know. You know, we constantly would "Hey, you know, what is. And if it is a discomfort Woebot will sort of encourage that person to follow through. And then we'll come back "Hey, you said you were. Have you done it?" And we find actually in our data that, aside from the daily which facilitate sort of that accountability is the thing that people find their most favored. So you want that kind of accountability. KC: Do you have red lines? Has Woebot sat around and said, there's a whole set of things that we are not going to do? AD: Yeah, absolutely, loads. Like, give advice, sell data, especially to advertisers. Flirt, right? Because that muddies the dynamic of what is happening here. You know, again, it has to be so clear and what are we trying to achieve. And staying within. KC: Is the effectiveness of therapy or is this sort of element in the mix maybe going to increase? AD: See, this is the question, I think we haven't done a great job. Forgive me, you know, some of my best friends. But we're not doing a great job.