Murray Hill the personDS : Who have you patterned your persona of Murray Hill after? MH: It came across naturally. I was recently at a family funeral— DS: As Murray Hill? MH: No, half and half. I have an uncle who I knew growing up. Dead ringer to Murray! I’m half Italian. My grandfather and my father are pretty much the spirit of Murray, this patriarchal-yet-warm character. Roly-poly. DS: Does your family accept you? MH: That’s a long story. I’ll answer it saying I moved out when I was 18 and I have not gone back. But my Dad died so I did go back for that, and that was the first time in fifteen years. DS: How was the reaction? MH: I don’t talk about that much. It’s still new. A lot of where my work comes from in a human standpoint is that I came from a very conservative background and intense place. It’s very important me to have the complete opposite in my shows. I accept everybody in my shows and I’m very positive. And—something I look up to RuPaul about—is visibility. It’s so important today to be visible, to be out there, and take up space, to show people they have no reason to have fear. RuPaul was on TV in the 1990s, and I’ve been trying to get on TV and people are still worried, and it’s been twenty years. I’ve been the first drag king—if you have to use the word—to do many things. I performed for Penelope Cruz. The first to be on television. I really believe there is a place for us. DS: What do you do when you’re not doing show business? MH: I got hooked on a new game: bowling. There’s a bowling alley near my house. I’m into this new game called Speedmitton. I actually exercise. Then I watch Dean Martin DVDs. I have all of his shows on DVD from those late-night commercials. Have you seen those, with Don Rickles? I bought them. I was that schmuck at 3:00 in the morning I bought the whole damn set and they are still coming in the mail! DS: Are you dating anyone? MH: Quite a few. I will say my public girlfriend Is Dirty Martini; my Hollywood wife. My Beard, so to speak. DS: The New York Times article made it seem like you are embodying this character, that you have become him, and have no personality outside of Murray Hill. MH: Well, I don’t know about that. I think of myself as an entertainer and there are definitely some old school references, and I try to make it a little easier for people and say I am a comedian. I think people have an easier time understanding what that is. DS: Do you consider yourself transgendered? MH: I really don’t label myself. It’s a conscious—possibly political—decision and I try not to be labeled by gender. DS: Do you consider yourself butch? MH: I consider myself a tough guy. Butch is another label that doesn’t sit well with me. DS: Because it denies your femininity as well? MH: No, just because people like to put narrowing labels on sexuality. I try to challenge that. DS: Do you surprise yourself with your sexuality? MH: What surprises me is I’m often in a lot of uncomfortable situations as Murray, and it surprises me how accepted I am in certain places. It’s mind-blowing. What I do find surprising is when I go to a wedding, and then all the gender-sexuality issues are in a neon shining light, and that’s when I’m like, ‘Whoa!’ I really can say I think of myself as what I am, and I don’t try to put that in a box. But when I go to a wedding, for example, I’m like, “Agh!” for the way I’m treated, looked at, talked about. Drag queens and drag kings: the differencesDS : With drag queens it seems like almost anything is on the table. If they want to butch it up, if they want to fem it up. In the craft, are there boundaries you feel you can’t cross? MH: I will never take off my shirt and tie. That’s about as far as it goes. I take off my jacket and every once in a while when the audience is screaming for me to do it, I’ll take off my pants at shows. I really don’t have too many rules. My rules are more about the environment I create for the shows. I’m very strict about having a positive environment. I will never put somebody down in a negative, crass way, which you’ll see at comedy clubs and drag queen shows pretty much all the time. I make fun of everybody, but I do it in a way where we all feel good about it instead of a way where somebody thinks, ‘Wow, somebody is really getting it.’ I’m very aware that women come to the show and they feel safe and that it’s a fun place. That’s my biggest rule. DS: What about in terms of gender roles, how you use gender? Are there boundaries for a drag king when they are performing in terms of what they should or shouldn’t do? MH: I don’t know. When there was a consolidated drag king scene here—1997—there was a heavy scene but now it’s faded away. There isn’t really a group anymore. But all across the country there are groups everywhere. Their performances are very different than what I’m doing. It’s overtly about gender, sexuality, politics and a reveal. They’ll show the dildoes, strip down and do a transformation. A lot of it is about transformation. There’s even a new group that’s with—I’ve got to get the terms right—drag kings, boyz, and now there’s a scene of lesbians doing F2F drag. That’s all about challenging the gender stuff. It’s part of the act; whereas my stuff doesn’t make that the core of the act. Obviously it’s there, but I don’t hit the kids over the head with it. Which is why more people come to my show. They’re not threatened by the sexuality aspect of it. The direction of New York downtown cultureDS : Why do you think the drag king scene in New York has died down? MH: New York is a very different place. People who do drag have a lot of strong personalities in New York. There’s a scene, and we all know each other from the scene, but in terms of a group getting together having meetings and a theater company it’s just not part of New York culture. DS: But it used to be? MH: Not so much. I think people are very individual here. It’s not a group mentality. It’s more about community building and creating your own community. Since everything in New York is ‘cool’ here there’s not much of a need to create a community since we are accepted. Lady Bunny, RuPaul, they are very much who they are and went off on their own. They were part of the East Village scene— DS: The Pyramid Club days— MH: Yeah, but it wasn’t a group. DS: Where do you think downtown Manhattan culture is going right now? MH: [Laughs] Brooklyn! [Laughs] DS: Where in Brooklyn? MH: There’s a lot of stuff happening in Williamsburg. There are more queer bars and performance spaces cropping up. There are more corporate places, too. Clear Channel just bought a club in Williamsburg. We are now sitting in a place that still has East Village type performance, and that’s what this wall is about behind me, honoring all the downtown legends. And now this is closing. Fez closed, which is where I started, and so did Kiki and Herb. That place is closed, and now this place is closed. DS: Do you think it’s a permanent change? MH: I definitely think that the East Village begin a counter-culture melting pot is definitely over. Definitely over. We’re not all in one place anymore but we’re spread out. Nobody just lives in the East Village anymore; nobody just lives in Williamsburg. We can’t afford it. There’s no consolidation. When I first started in New York— DS: When was that? MH: In 1996 I ran for Mayor. Then you could go to a club every night and the scene would be packed with all kinds of performers like Dean Johnson, who just passed away. Mario, Jackie Beat, every night! That’s how I knew everybody, but that’s definitely over. DS: Where did it go? MH: It spread out. It ended and it spread out. A lot of clubs got raided and a lot of the clubs closed. Nightlife has really changed. DS: Is there not an audience for it anymore? MH: There’s always an audience for it! DS: Why wouldn’t they cultivate a scene? Everybody is still here. MH: You can’t compete with a real estate developer. So places like these are being bought up and being turned into condos or WholeFoods. It’s not just about the audience, it’s about the actual pushing out of the artists and performance spaces, pushing them further and further out of the city. People still come to my shows and people still go out every night to see shows. It’s just more spread out. DS: Manhattan was always so central, do you think Brooklyn can fulfill that role or is the central-ness gone? MH: I think it’s an era that’s gone, but there’s a lot of activity happening in Brooklyn. I live in Brooklyn, but I used to never perform there. But I performed there twice last week. I used to go to Manhattan every weekend, but now I stay in Brooklyn. DS: What kinds of places are cultivating the scene there and by whom? MH: ''' Larry Tee is somebody who is trying to keep things alive. He has a couple parties he has started up in Brooklyn. He started the electroclash movement in Williamsburg. There’s Music Hall. Union Pool. Sugarland. Northsix, which they just changed the name to Galapagos. Luna Lounge is in Brooklyn now.
Murray Hill the person DS : Who have you patterned your persona of Murray Hill after? MH: It came across naturally. I was recently at a family funeral— DS: As Murray Hill? MH: No, half and half. I have an uncle who I knew growing up. Dead ringer to Murray! I’m half Italian. My grandfather and my father are pretty much the spirit of Murray, this patriarchal-yet-warm character. Roly-poly. DS: Does your family accept you? MH: That’s a long story. I’ll answer it saying I moved out when I was 18 and I have not gone back. But my Dad died so I did go back for that, and that was the first time in fifteen years. DS: How was the reaction? MH: I don’t talk about that much. It’s still new. A lot of where my work comes from in a human standpoint is that I came from a very conservative background and intense place. It’s very important me to have the complete opposite in my shows. I accept everybody in my shows and I’m very positive. And—something I look up to RuPaul about—is visibility. It’s so important today to be visible, to be out there, and take up space, to show people they have no reason to have fear. RuPaul was on TV in the 1990s, and I’ve been trying to get on TV and people are still worried, and it’s been twenty years. I’ve been the first drag king—if you have to use the word—to do many things. I performed for Penelope Cruz. The first to be on television. I really believe there is a place for us. DS: What do you do when you’re not doing show business? MH: I got hooked on a new game: bowling. There’s a bowling alley near my house. I’m into this new game called Speedmitton. I actually exercise. Then I watch Dean Martin DVDs. I have all of his shows on DVD from those late-night commercials. Have you seen those, with Don Rickles? I bought them. I was that schmuck at 3:00 in the morning I bought the whole damn set and they are still coming in the mail! DS: Are you dating anyone? MH: Quite a few. I will say my public girlfriend Is Dirty Martini; my Hollywood wife. My Beard, so to speak. DS: The New York Times article made it seem like you are embodying this character, that you have become him, and have no personality outside of Murray Hill. MH: Well, I don’t know about that. I think of myself as an entertainer and there are definitely some old school references, and I try to make it a little easier for people and say I am a comedian. I think people have an easier time understanding what that is. DS: Do you consider yourself transgendered? MH: I really don’t label myself. It’s a conscious—possibly political—decision and I try not to be labeled by gender. DS: Do you consider yourself butch? MH: I consider myself a tough guy. Butch is another label that doesn’t sit well with me. DS: Because it denies your femininity as well? MH: No, just because people like to put narrowing labels on sexuality. I try to challenge that. DS: Do you surprise yourself with your sexuality? MH: What surprises me is I’m often in a lot of uncomfortable situations as Murray, and it surprises me how accepted I am in certain places. It’s mind-blowing. What I do find surprising is when I go to a wedding, and then all the gender-sexuality issues are in a neon shining light, and that’s when I’m like, ‘Whoa!’ I really can say I think of myself as what I am, and I don’t try to put that in a box. But when I go to a wedding, for example, I’m like, “Agh!” for the way I’m treated, looked at, talked about. Drag queens and drag kings: the differences DS : With drag queens it seems like almost anything is on the table. If they want to butch it up, if they want to fem it up. In the craft, are there boundaries you feel you can’t cross? MH: I will never take off my shirt and tie. That’s about as far as it goes. I take off my jacket and every once in a while when the audience is screaming for me to do it, I’ll take off my pants at shows. I really don’t have too many rules. My rules are more about the environment I create for the shows. I’m very strict about having a positive environment. I will never put somebody down in a negative, crass way, which you’ll see at comedy clubs and drag queen shows pretty much all the time. I make fun of everybody, but I do it in a way where we all feel good about it instead of a way where somebody thinks, ‘Wow, somebody is really getting it.’ I’m very aware that women come to the show and they feel safe and that it’s a fun place. That’s my biggest rule. DS: What about in terms of gender roles, how you use gender? Are there boundaries for a drag king when they are performing in terms of what they should or shouldn’t do? MH: I don’t know. When there was a consolidated drag king scene here—1997—there was a heavy scene but now it’s faded away. There isn’t really a group anymore. But all across the country there are groups everywhere. Their performances are very different than what I’m doing. It’s overtly about gender, sexuality, politics and a reveal. They’ll show the dildoes, strip down and do a transformation. A lot of it is about transformation. There’s even a new group that’s with—I’ve got to get the terms right—drag kings, boyz, and now there’s a scene of lesbians doing F2F drag. That’s all about challenging the gender stuff. It’s part of the act; whereas my stuff doesn’t make that the core of the act. Obviously it’s there, but I don’t hit the kids over the head with it. Which is why more people come to my show. They’re not threatened by the sexuality aspect of it. The direction of New York downtown culture DS : Why do you think the drag king scene in New York has died down? MH: New York is a very different place. People who do drag have a lot of strong personalities in New York. There’s a scene, and we all know each other from the scene, but in terms of a group getting together having meetings and a theater company it’s just not part of New York culture. DS: But it used to be? MH: Not so much. I think people are very individual here. It’s not a group mentality. It’s more about community building and creating your own community. Since everything in New York is ‘cool’ here there’s not much of a need to create a community since we are accepted. Lady Bunny, RuPaul, they are very much who they are and went off on their own. They were part of the East Village scene— DS: The Pyramid Club days— MH: Yeah, but it wasn’t a group. DS: Where do you think downtown Manhattan culture is going right now? MH: [Laughs] Brooklyn! [Laughs] DS: Where in Brooklyn? MH: There’s a lot of stuff happening in Williamsburg. There are more queer bars and performance spaces cropping up. There are more corporate places, too. Clear Channel just bought a club in Williamsburg. We are now sitting in a place that still has East Village type performance, and that’s what this wall is about behind me, honoring all the downtown legends. And now this is closing. Fez closed, which is where I started, and so did Kiki and Herb. That place is closed, and now this place is closed. DS: Do you think it’s a permanent change? MH: I definitely think that the East Village begin a counter-culture melting pot is definitely over. Definitely over. We’re not all in one place anymore but we’re spread out. Nobody just lives in the East Village anymore; nobody just lives in Williamsburg. We can’t afford it. There’s no consolidation. When I first started in New York— DS: When was that? MH: In 1996 I ran for Mayor. Then you could go to a club every night and the scene would be packed with all kinds of performers like Dean Johnson, who just passed away. Mario, Jackie Beat, every night! That’s how I knew everybody, but that’s definitely over. DS: Where did it go? MH: It spread out. It ended and it spread out. A lot of clubs got raided and a lot of the clubs closed. Nightlife has really changed. DS: Is there not an audience for it anymore? MH: There’s always an audience for it! DS: Why wouldn’t they cultivate a scene? Everybody is still here. MH: You can’t compete with a real estate developer. So places like these are being bought up and being turned into condos or WholeFoods. It’s not just about the audience, it’s about the actual pushing out of the artists and performance spaces, pushing them further and further out of the city. People still come to my shows and people still go out every night to see shows. It’s just more spread out. DS: Manhattan was always so central, do you think Brooklyn can fulfill that role or is the central-ness gone? MH: I think it’s an era that’s gone, but there’s a lot of activity happening in Brooklyn. I live in Brooklyn, but I used to never perform there. But I performed there twice last week. I used to go to Manhattan every weekend, but now I stay in Brooklyn. DS: What kinds of places are cultivating the scene there and by whom? MH: Larry Tee is somebody who is trying to keep things alive. He has a couple parties he has started up in Brooklyn. He started the electroclash movement in Williamsburg. There’s Music Hall. Union Pool. Sugarland. Northsix, which they just changed the name to Galapagos. Luna Lounge is in Brooklyn now.
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