In article <May.9.05.40.51.1993.27526@athos.rutgers.edu> noye@midway.uchicago.edu writes: > >christians can also feel that >sense of "difference", however, when they are associated with "those >weird televangelists who always talk about satan".  if you'll excuse >the cliched sound of this, everyone has to deal with his/ her >differences from other people. i can understand how being an atheist >could be hard for you; being a christian is sometimes hard for me.  This is not at all comparable. Christianity is the main stream in western culture. You are trivializing the experiences of others.  I remember what it was like being "different" as a Christian. We were told all the time that we were different, and in fact that only members of the our church were really Christians (though others who believed in God weren't as bad as atheists), so we were a small minority. That was nothing compared to being an atheist.  The only thing comparable would be a young child being Christian being surrounded by staunch atheists, including parents, who actively persecute any religious tendancies - both actual punishments and, even worse, emotional blackmail. They would also have to have the whole mainstream society on their side. Maybe these conditions could have occured in the old Soviet Union* not in a country with "under God" in its pledge of allegiance.  * I doubt it even then, because children have to be taught to be Christians and hence must have support somewhere.  >>I have sympathy for gays growing up in repressive environments and >>having to hide and sometimes at first try to deny a part of themselves >>because I've been there. Only in my case it was my rationality instead >>of sexuality which I was forced to try to repress. > >in some way the pressures were different, of course, because you >"chose" your beliefs -- or are you saying that they were not your >choice, but born of necessity?  [please, no flames about whether or >not gay people "choose" their lifestyle -- that's elsewhere in this >newsgroup]  Yes. My atheism was "born of necessity." For an intellectually honest person belief is mostly a response to evidence. Will or wishes have nothing to do with it. I could choose to lie, or to be silent about my true beliefs. I could no more choose to believe in the God of Christianity than I could decide that the ordinary sky looks red to me. Still I should be clear that I'm not equating what I went through with what gays go through. However it is a mistake to assume that everyone who goes through painful experiences are broken by them. Happily some are made stronger, once we get past it.  >> I must say that I >>wasn't hurt by my experiences in church any more than some of my friends >>who didn't become atheists. I was just hurt differently. > >i'm not sure i understand this sentence -- could you explain?  Not without going to details and violating the confidences of some of my childhood friends. Suffice it say to that religion does not guarantee that a person will be happy and strong emotionally, and a repressive upbringing can leave its scars even, or especially, on those who don't get free of it. I doubt that any sane and sincere person doubts that and I feel no need to defend it.  By the way I am much happier and stronger being out of the closet. In the end it has been, as someone eloquently put it in private email, an experience of liberation rather than disillusion.