In article <1993Apr13.221936.28301@watson.ibm.com> mjp@vnet.ibm.com (Michael J. Phelps) writes: > >In article <shepardC5FtLs.681@netcom.com>, shepard@netcom.com (Mark Shepard) >writes: >|> How effective are personal defense products like mace, pepper-spray, >|> tasers and other non-lethal "stun" devices compared to handguns? >|> Any statistics on #'s and types in use? >|>  >|> These products seem very attractive compared to handguns >|> because, being non-lethal, they are more "forgiving" of accident or >|> mistakes/wrongful shooting (such as the Yoshi Hattori case), and >|> allow the justice system to deal with the criminal (rather than >|> criminals simply being _dead_, which has a certain "vigilante feel" >|> which seems to bother anti-gun people). > >The "more forgiving" nature also has its down side; it allows a criminal >to use them w/o the ADW [assault with a deadly weapon] charge.  They also >can have lethal or dangerous side effects - > - some people have violent reactions to mace/pepper sprays > - stun guns can harm people with weak hearts > - people have suffered eye damage from mace; the stuff that is available >   now is less concentrated than it used to be. > - some of the spray propellents are flammable > >|>  >|> The arguments I see _against_ these non-lethal weapons compared to >|> handguns are lack of range, lack of "stopping power" or effectiveness, >|> and limited "ammo".  True?  How about cost? > >Sprays > >- using any of the spray based [eg mace, pepper] indoors is bound to >  affect anyone else in the room (like the victim) due to the nature >  of the stuff. > >- using the sprays outdoors in any sort of breeze mitigates its  >  effectiveness. > >- from reading various articles, it appears that mace, especially the >  mace available to citizens, is pretty ineffective on people under >  the influence of drugs or alcohol. > >- pepper spray appears to be more effective, but has the inherent spray >  delivery problem.  It still does not appear to be anything better than >  a distraction that might buy you time to run like hell [if you can]. > >Consider that running like hell isn't always a viable solution.  For >example, if you are dressed in boots and the assailent is dressed in >sneakers .. you might have a tough time outrunning them! > >Tasars and Stun Guns > >- require contact with skin for max effectiveness; a jacket [like a  >  leather one] will mitigate its effectiveness > >- the user must be extremely close to the assailent; that puts them >  at a considerable risk of injury.  > >- the user must keep the stun gun in contact with the assailent for some >  non negligible period of time. > >- tasar darts can be pulled out. > >Consider the problem a small women would have keeping a stun gun in  >contact with a average size man for any length of time w/o sustaining >serious injury. > >|>  >|> Have any anti-gun groups suggested non-lethal weapons, to counter >|> the pro-gun argument that people will be left defenseless? > >I haven't heard of any.  Generally they contend that people don't >need to [or aren't able] to defend themselves. > >|>  >|> And, what legal restrictions/licensing apply to non-lethal devices? > >Civilian ownership of stun guns is frequently illegal [NY].  The sprays >are also illegal in some states.  Believe it or not, they are still  >illegal in NY, although about half the state thinks they are legal! >[I believe that NY almost legalized them; i have heard that the reason >they didn't was due to their ineffectiveness] > >I feel that the sprays are better than nothing, but only if the user >does not believe the hype ["this'll drop 'em in their tracks" stuff] >and uses it as a diversion o_n_l_y . >-  >|>  >|> 	MarkS >|> -- >|> Mark Shepard | shepard@netcom.com | Portola Valley, CA > >--  >Michael Phelps, (external) mjp@vnet.ibm.com .. >                (internal) mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com .. mjp at kgnvmy          > (and last but not least a disclaimer)  These opinions are mine..         What about guns with non-lethal bullets, like rubber or plastic bullets. Would those work very well in stopping an attack?