In article <D3F72B1w164w@cellar.org>, techie@cellar.org (William A Bacon) writes : >They Refuse To Learn From History Or From the Present  >Pointing to Canada's vaunted socialized medical care program, he >contends that "it is failing even while the cost is catching up with >angry taxpayers." He notes: "Americans don't go to Canada and >elsewhere for medical care; it's the Canadians and others who come >here. Why should the United States duplicate what doesn't work well >in other countries? We have the world's best medical care; let's not >mess it up with Hillary Clinton's plans for socialized medicine." > > >John F. McManus, National President of the John Birch Society >   When McManus says, "We have the world's best medical care," I can hardly believe he's referring to a system:  1.  That costs us 14 percent of our GDP, while there isn't a     single other country in the industrialized world that spends more than     10 percent.  2.  That leaves 37 million of us with no coverage, even though all     the other systems in the industrialized world cover virtually everyone.  3.  Yet, Americans rank near the bottom of the list in terms of life     expectancy, childhood immunization rate, infant mortality, and many     preventable diseases.  4.  We pay, on average, about $1000 each for MRIs.  (To put that in     perspective, they cost $177 in Japan.)  5.  The average US company spends over 2500 dollars a year per employee on     health benefits.  Seven hundred to 1500 is the range just about everywhere     else.   How can anyone say that such a system is the best in the world?  The only thing the USA health care system is good at is showering well-insured patients with a champagne treatment of care and outrageously overcharging for it.  And the "private" system of insurers and paperwork is so bloated and inefficient that it itself sucks up over 100 billion dollars a year in money from every other sector of society - individuals, government, and industry.  Of the < 800 billion dollars Americans threw into the bottomless pit of health care costs last year, the Consumer's Union estimated that at least 200 billion was thrown away on overpriced, useless, and even downright harmful tests and procedures, and the most bureaucratic, regulated insurance system in the world.  There are more than 1200 different private insurers in the USA.  But did the "private competition" stimulate more efficient paperwork?  Ask any doctor who's had to hire a full-time clerk to deal with it all!  The competition among hospitals is driving costs UP, not down.  The competition among hospitals for both doctors and patients has encouraged the hospitals to traffic in expensive superfluous equipment.  Spending millions on expensive machines of dubious value that spend 80 percent of the day idle isn't my idea of the world's best health care system.  Competition among specialists is driving them to perform dangerous and expensive procedures where they are very marginally helpful.  I'm especially thinking of heart surgery and some women's surgeries like hysterectomy and Cesarean section.  Sound like the world's best health care system?    Ever notice how, every time someone tries to bring about some real change in health care, the Libbies start bashing Canada's system?  First of all, Hillary Clinton is not advocating another Canadian system.  I think that's been made abundantly clear in the news for the last couple of months.  Where did John F. McManus get that idea, anyway?  Let's say you're a Canadian living in a small town near the USA border.  Your child needs a complicated procedure only available in city hospitals.  The nearest Canadian cities are 6 hours west and 20 hours east, and there's an American city one hour south.  Which way are you going to go?  Is it because the American system is the "best" in the world, or just for convenience?  It still amazes me that people can't seem to see more than just black and white on health care reform.  There are a million different ways we ould restructure the system.  It's not just a choice between total government control and total private control.  I wish the people screaming "socialized medicine" every time soemone wants to change the current syste would INFORM THEMSELVES on health care issues.    The current system sucks.  I want to keep providers private but that doesn't change the fact that we will never be able to deal with the deficit if we don't REFORM THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.  Purely private health care without any government intervention doesn't work.  Hillary Clinton is not thinking of nationalizing providers or evern insurers.  How can you scream "socialized medicine" at her programs?  Don't you even know what you're talking about?    Ever see Clinton's graphs of projected deficit versus year for the rest of the decade?  Notice how the line falls, then starts increasing?  Why?  I'll give you one wild guess as to which component of spending will overwhelm us if we don't do something about it.    PEOPE JUST DOESN'T GET IT.  The current health care system is a cancer which is killing our economic well-being.  Costs are still rising 10 percent a year even as Americans by the tens of millions go without, or are forced into managed-care programs, which are certainly pretty socialized already if you ask me.  A couple of months ago I posted a message asking any Hillary-bashers to please come forward and present (no gimmicks, straight talk) just how THEY would set about keeping costs down.  I didn't get a single answer.  The only thing I keep hearing from Libbie organizations are press releases filled with evasive platitudes like "give health care back to the people." Just do you expect to do that without serious reforms?  What is it about the current system that you would change and how would that help?   How can anyone read the news, live under our system, and NOT see these faults? How can we deal with the deficit, our cities, our educational system, our infrastrucure, AIDS, modernizing our industry, etc. if we don't quit throwing away money which could be used to SOLVE those problems?   America needs health care reform NOW.  Don't just sit there and Hillary-bash, inform yourself!  Jim Reynolds