Malcolm Lee (mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca) wrote: : I will clarify my earlier quote.  God's laws were originally written for  : the Israelites.  Jesus changed that fact by now making the Law applicable to : all people, not just the Jews.  Gentiles could be part of the kingdom of : Heaven through the saving grace of God.  I never said that the Law was made : obsolete by Jesus.  Just for reference, here's the earlier quote: Malcolm Lee (mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca) wrote in reference to Leviticus 21:9 and Deuteronomy 22:20-25: : These laws written for the Israelites, God's chosen people whom God had : expressly set apart from the rest of the world.  The Israelites were a : direct witness to God's existence.  To disobey God after KNOWing that God : is real would be an outright denial of God and therefore immediately : punishable. : Remember, these laws were written for a different time and applied only to : God's chosen people.  But Jesus has changed all of that.  We are living in : the age of grace.  Sin is no longer immediately punishable by death.  There : is repentance and there is salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.  And : not just for a few chosen people.  Salvation is available to everyone, Jew : and Gentile alike.  These are two conflicting statements.  To say one is a clarification of the other is a breach of logic.  I don't mind people shifting their position on an issue.  It irritates me when it is said under the premise that no change was made.  What about Deuteronomy 22:20-25?  Is it wrong now?  Did Jesus change that?  : If anything, He clarified the Law such as in that quote you made.  In the : following verses, Jesus takes several portions of the Law and expounds upon : the Law giving clearer meaning to what God intended.  Sure he does this.  However, he doesn't address the notion of stoning non-virgin brides, because this needs no clarification.  Are you going to deny that Deuteronomy 22:20-25 is not patently clear in its intent?  : I think you will agree with me that there are in today's world, a lot of : modern-day Pharisees who know the bible from end to end but do not believe : in it.  What good is head knowledge if there is nothing in the heart?  I'll agree that there is a lot of modern day Pharisees that know the Bible from end to end and don't believe in it.  Depending on how they use this knowledge, they can be scary.  They can argue any position they desire, and back it up with selected parts of the Bible.  Such Pharisees include David Koresh and Adolph Hitler.  I will qualify this by saying *I don't know* if they actually believed what they were preaching, but the ends certainly made the means look frightening.  However, just as scary are those that don't know much of the Bible, but believe every word.  In fact, this is probably scarier, since there are far more of these people, from what I've seen.  In addition, they are very easy to manipulate by the aforementioned Pharisees, since they don't know enough to debate with these people.  : Christianity is not just a set of rules; it's a lifestyle that changes one's : perspectives and personal conduct.  And it demands obedience to God's will.  No, it demands obedience to a book.  If God came down and personally told me how I should behave, then I would say that I would be doing God's will by doing it.  However, if preachers, pastors, and evangelists tell me to obey the will of a book written by people who have been dead for close to two millenia (even longer for the OT), even if I follow everything in it with my heart, I could scarcely be honest with myself by saying I'm doing the will of God.  : Some people can live by it, but many others cannot or will not.  That is : their choice and I have to respect it because God respects it too.  Well, if God respects it so much, how come there is talk in the Bible about eternal damnation for non-believers?  I see little respect eminating from the god of the Bible.  I see a selfish and spiteful god.  : God be with you,  Not yours, thanks ;)  : Malcolm Lee  :)  Rob Lanphier lanphi872@snake.cs.uidaho.edu lanph872@uidaho.edu  And for the curious, here is my earlier post: > Hmm, for a book that only applied to the Israelites (Deuteronomy), Jesus sure > quoted it a lot (Mt 4: 4,7,10).  In addition, he alludes to it in several > other places (Mt 19:7-8; Mk 10:3-5; Jn 5:46-47).  And, just in case it isn't > clear Jesus thought the Old Testament isn't obsolete, I'll repeat the > verse in Matthew which gets quoted on this group a lot: >  > "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have > not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until > heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke > of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is > accomplished.  Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments > and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of > heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called > great in the kingdom of heaven.  For I tell you that unless your > righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, > you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."  (Mt 5:17-20 NIV, in > pretty red letters, so that you know it's Jesus talking)