In article <1srg4cINNj73@early-bird.think.com> shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes: >In article <2703@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au>, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes:  >Please cite specific examples where an Arab party member was rejected >while a Jewish party member was accepted.  If you look at the bottom of this article you will see that I have very kindly dug up one of Yigal Arens previous postings (entirely without his permission, I hope he doesn't mind) containing translations from Ha'arezt detailing just such a case. Perhaps you think that Ha'arezt lies? Would you like to provide me with an assurance that this practise *never* occurs?  >If you examine these I am >sure you will discover that the Arab party member did not have the power >base that his Jewish counterpart had.  Right, Arabs have been voting in Israel for how long? And in all that time NOT ONE Arab EVER gained enough of a personal following to get his fellow party members to put in a Ministry? This is about as likely as sprouting wings and flying to Rio. What basis do you have for explaining this odd failure? You seem very confident that you are right, exactly how do you know, why are you sure?  >Once again, if for arguments sake, all the Arab Israelis were to vote >for Labor at the next election, you can rest assured that the number of >Arab MKs and cabinet members would increase proportionately to the >power shift.  Exactly what basis do you have for saying this when the Labour party has never put an Arab into a Cabinet post and insists its coalition members do the same? Why and on what basis are you reassuring me in the face of 50 years of discriminatory practise?  >You are overlooking the fact that they wield political power >as individuals based upon a wider collective power base.  Hey what?? As I said even when their party puts them up they get knocked back. It surely couldn't be because they are Arabs is it?  >The reasoning I see at work is purely political.  As far as security >goes I think that some serious gaffs were made by right wing Jews >as well - e.g. Sharon.  Well yes, but Security is the reason most often given by people who want to make excuses. I merely thought it would crop up and so pre-empted it.  Start of Article (All commets in [*....*] are mine not Dr. Arens)  [Comments in square brackets are mine - Yigal]  >From "The OTHER Front", July 29, 1992.  Translation of Ha'aretz article.  Racism in the Knesset ---------------------  Coalition requirements on one hand, and the presence of progressive MKs from _Meretz_ in the coalition on the other, have compelled Rabin and his friends to change, to some extent, their attitude towards the Arab public and their representatives in the Knesset.  Although he did refuse to view them as partners, taking part in the coalition and joining the government, he did agree to meet with them and to give them a document of intentions which included a commitment to "work towards a decrease in the discrimination between Jewish and Arab citizens".  [Decrease WHAT?!?! But posters have told us time and again that such discrimination does not exist *at* *all*!  Is Rabin, too, a closet self-hater??? - Yigal].  However, racism has not disappeared.  When the Knesset sat to consider who would staff its various committees, a request was made to put an MK from Hadash [the Communist party, one of the "Arab" parties - Yigal] on the State Comptroller's Committee.  And oh, did that ever stir up a storm -- including in the ranks of Labor -- since many Knesset members find it unthinkable that an Arab MK sit on one of the important house committees.  "Security secrets" are liable to fall into their hands...  This attitude -- which until recently had not even aroused criticism, being so natural and so deeply-embossed upon people's hearts -- holds that there are Knesset members who, despite having been elected by tens of thousands of votes, are not entitled to be full partners in the body which represents the people of Israel.  We are not speaking here of political discrimination -- which would be bad enough in itself -- but of racial discrimination.  The proof: one of the compromises proposed was that MK Mahamid [an Arab - Yigal] should be replaced by Tamar Gojanski [a Jew - Yigal] from the same party.  It was not the member's party which was considered unfit, but his race...  [* Here is a documented case in a respected Israeli newspaper. *]  It is worth noting that for the first time since the state's founding, a public debate has arisen on this subject, as witness the following article:   A TEST OF SELF-CONFIDENCE  By Gid'on Levi, Ha'aretz, July 26, 1992  Revelations of discrimination against Arabs have become such an integral part of our daily routine that there is not much effort made to deal with them.  [Do you hear that, -----?  Please contact this Levi fellow and explain to him how little he knows about Israel.  Please! - Yigal]. Except that sometimes the demon bursts out from behind the government's window dressing, and then the phenomenon is seven times more serious.  Last week provided two more such examples: the Israeli Knesset is finding it very difficult to allow Arab representation on its more important committees; and Israel Television is finding it no less difficult to give a platform to Arabs from the territories.  Seemingly two entirely different matters, but in fact they are one and the same.  The 13th Knesset proved last week that, even though one third of its members are new faces, it has not renewed its own face at all, at least on one issue.  Parliamentary traditions may be modernized and parliamentary traditions may become obsolete, and only one tradition endures forever: no Arab shall set foot in the more important committees of the house.  There has never been and never will be an Arab MK on the External Affairs and Defense Committee or on the Finance Committee. Worlds have been overturned over the question of whether or not "to give" Arabs, for the first time, a place on the State Comptroller's Committee.  The arguments are old and well-known: In all three of the above committees innumerable secrets are revealed -- and woe unto us if an Arab should hear them.  One must not make light of such arguments, but their significance should also not be exaggerated.  Every Arab MK is not spending all his time waiting for the opportune moment to hand over information from the Knesset committee room to Black Panther headquarters in Jenin; and not all the aforementioned committees are continually occupied in the discussion of top-secret matters, which could safely be revealed, for example, to MKs supportive of the Jewish Underground, but not to an Arab MK from the Likud, Labor, or even from Hadash.  The Arabs themselves would probably forego membership in the Subcommittee on Secret Service Matters, but what would happen, one may ask, if MK Nawaf Masalha were to hear, God forbid, a review of the Foreign Minister in an open meeting of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, or even a review of the Army Chief of Staff which, in any case, are regularly leaked to the next edition of the news.  And what would happen if MK Hashem Mahamid were to report on what he had seen with his own eyes at al-Najah?  Their non-participation [in important committees] and that of their colleagues, creates an intolerable situation, where Arab members of the elected house have only semi-positions.  They are good enough for addressing plenary sessions, and for voting for or against the government and participating in the deliberations of the Immigration and Absorption Committee.  But they must not, for example, participate in the process of formulating the state budget in the Finance Committee or in the allocation of resources to local authorities.  In any case, they have little part in that.  Labor's dependence on the support of the Arab parties has brought about some improvement: MK Hashem Mahamid, will, it seems, participate in the State Comptroller's Committee.  Earlier, there had been a ridiculous attempt made to dictate to Hadash who their representative should be, and thus to prevent the Arab from entering this dubious holy-of-holies, but it soon became clear that there was no legal or constitutional backing for such a step.  But not to worry: even now the Jewish mind is contriving devices.  The new Committee Chair, Roni Milo, has already announced that he will set up subcommittees aplenty for his committee.  Thus he will decide where it is permissible for Mahamid to participate and where not.  A solution such as this could, by the way, also have been adopted for the rest of the committees, thereby completely eliminating the fear of state secrets being leaked to the enemy and removing the stain of discrimination from the Knesset.  [. . .]  End Article  Do you accept that as documentation?  Joseph Askew