In article <Apr.17.01.11.16.1993.2265@geneva.rutgers.edu> jdt@voodoo.ca.boeing.com (Jim Tomlinson (jimt II)) writes:  [..]  >goodness that is within the power of each of us.  Now, the >complication is that one of my best friends has become very >fundamentalist. That would normally be a non-issue with me, but he  Hello.  Firstly, what do you exactly mean by "fundamentalist"?  I will for the time being assume that what you mean is that your friend believes that the bible is God's word to mankind?  I suspect that what happened to him is what he'll call being "born again"?  Anyway, was that recent? If the answer is "yes" to all the questions above, it is quite understandable.  However, IMO, I'ld rather give advice to your friend! I think I've been through something similar to him, and one thing I can say is that the basic problem is that each of you are now trying to communicate from different worldviews.  Why he talks about those things is because they are now "obvious" to him.  What is "obvious" to him is not obvious to you.  Secondly, why he may be very persuasive is because from his point of view, he has been on "both sides of the fence".  This I mean that before he turned "fundamentalist", you two are agreeable because both of you see things from the same side.  If suddenly, as if a new world of reality has suddenly opened up to him, it is like the discovery of let's say a new continent, or a new planet.  To him, he's got to tell you because he has seen something much more wonderful than where he was, and what he thinks is much better than where you are now. You have got to realise that from his point of view, he means well to you, eventhough he may end up offending you.  To him, it is worth that risk.  Nevertheless, it is really up to him to respect where you stand and listen to you as well.  At this moment, it may be difficult because he is either very excited or feel it is too urgent to keep quiet about, however, he may not realise that he's really putting you off.  [...]  >the Bible that it is so.'  So my question is, how can I convince him >that this is a subject better left undiscussed, so we can preserve >what is (in all areas other than religious beliefs) a great >friendship?  How do I convince him that I am 'beyond saving' so he >won't try?  Thanks for any advice.  So far, I've only been trying to explain things from his side.  However, I do understand how you feel too, because I wasn't a Christian for a good part of my life as well.  I was quite turned off by Christians or "fundamentalists" who were really all out and enthusiastic about their faith.  They really scared me, to tell you the truth.  Unfortunately, "religious belief" is a very personal thing, just as your agnosticism is also a very personal thing to you.  Since the Christian belief is inevitably at odds with anything non-Christian (religious or otherwise), it will be a touchy matter.  Like all friendships, it will take both sides to do their part to make it work.  In this matter, maybe you can do your part by telling him nicely that you are not able to dig what he's trying to convince you about, that it's beyond you or not your concern "for now".  Don't tell him it's nonsense, because to him it is reality - and that would be a real insult.  He'll also have to be careful not to insult where you stand too.  Like I said before, I wish I could give your friend some advice too. I'll admit that I did similarly to some of my friends when I became a Christian.  In some ways, I wish I could have done things a little differently.  However, it was difficult then because I was so excited and just blabbered away about what I've found!  To me, it was too good not to know.  To some, I was crazy, and I didn't really care most of the time what they thought.  You will probably think he's crazy too - but God is very real to him, as real as you are to him.  Keep that in mind.  And he thinks he can convince you because since God is so real to him, he doesn't see why God can't be real to you too.  I don't know how helpful this is to you.  But all the best anyhow - this is quite a challenge for you to face.  By the way, personal conviction: nobody is "beyond saving" except the one we call the  devil and his hosts.