waashk/20ng huggingface dataset:
In article <1993Apr23.181301.8500@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> rcanders@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mr. Nice Guy) writes: >Flash over is a frequent occurrence with indoor fires.  A fire will >start small and in one location and heat the air.  The temperature in >the room builds up and then everything inflammable in the room catches >fire at once. >  >This may have occurred in the BD compound, I have heard reports that >the windows were covered which would permit a fire to start unnoticed >by those outside the compound.  When the fire got big enough, and >broke through the walls, it appeared to be started in two places but >was really one big fire.  The Houston Chronicle last Thursday (maybe Wednesday) said that the interior of walls had been covered with hay bales to help protect against bullets.  Many of you know how fast dry hay burns.  >Because of the large quantities of tear gas inserted into the building >it is possible that many of the women and children were in a room free >of tear gas they would try to seal the door to keep out the tear gas. >When they learned that a fire had broken out it was too late for them >to escape.  They were trapped by the flames in their safe room.  In addition, the gas is specifically designed to force eyes closed and the victim to vomit.  How fast could you leave your burning office or home if your eyes were closed and you were retching violently?  >I find it hard to believe that the FBI was not recording the final >assault.  I think that they would have wanted to have tapes to show >their agents of the the FBI overcoming the "forces of evil", aka >the Branch Davidians.  The tapes would also allow the FBI to prove >that they were not using excessive force.   --
In article <C5uCHu.FFn@cbnews.cb.att.com> lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes: >According to WNCI 97.9 FM radio this morning, Dayton, Ohio is operating a >gun "buy back".  They are giving $50 for every functional gun turned in. >They ran out of money in one day, and are now passing out $50 vouchers of >some sort.  They are looking for more funds to keep operating.  Another >media-event brought to you by HCI. > >Is there something similar pro-gun people can do ?  For example, pay $100 >to anyone who lawfully protects their life with a firearm ?  Sounds a bit >tacky, but hey, whatever works. >--  >Larry Cipriani -- l.v.cipriani@att.com  Here are a few ideas:  1) a free library card so they can look up the FBI    Uniform Crime Report which shows how good HCI is    at lying through their teeth,  2) a free RTD Transit Pass which will allow anti-gunners    to tour South Central Los Angeles and convince    people living there that they don't need guns to protect    themselves because the police will do it for them     (don't lose the pass, you'll need it to get out),  3) a free bus ride to Vermont, which has almost no gun    control and, curiously enough, almost no crime either,  4) a free calculator, since anti-gunners have heretofore    been unable to figure out what a small percentage of    the guns owned in America are used to commit violent crime.  -------------------------------------------------------------- Lee Gaucher    NRA                  |  My opinions. gaucher@sam.cchem.berkeley.edu      |  No one else's.
In <C5sv4r.HFA@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:  [and quotes a lot of stuff unnecessarily] >In article <93869@hydra.gatech.EDU> glenns@eas.gatech.edu writes: >> >> [worth posting again ;-] >>Hey, gang, it's not about duck hunting, or about dark alleys, >>it's about black-clad, helmeted and booted troops storming >>houses and violating civil rights under color of law.  >> >>Are YOU ready to defend YOUR Constitution?  >Its also about crazy fatigue clad survivalist types blasting the  >snot out of people who accidentally stray onto his land in the >name of 'self defense.'  >Don't get too self-righteous, Mr. gun-toter.  Ain't got a pair of fatigues... and I don't blast people wandering aimlessly, I ask them what they're doing there... I only blast people who display obvious violent intent... like black-clad men with weapons climbing thru second-story windows, or people who break down the door instead of knocking. Or people who knock my house down with tanks and set it afire.  Sound  familiar yet?  Riddle me this: Why the hell are the CONVICTED CRIMINALS in Ohio getting the kid glove treatment, and the BD's are burned alive without a trial? Put aside who started the blaze, I still think any decent shyster can  make a case for cruel and unusual punishment, playing the sounds of tortured rabbits over the loudspeakers (where's the SPCA in all this?)...  Oh, and that's Mister gun-toter SIR to you, bucko.  Just because you choose to abandon your rights, leave mine the hell alone, thankyouverymuch.
In article <1993Apr21.091130.17788@ousrvr.oulu.fi> dfo@vttoulu.tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas) writes: > >This means you would support a ban if it were narrow enough.  Good.  	This was not stated nor implied.  Try asking. > >Nerve gas and mustard gas are well defined.  Other poisonous >gasses should be individually banned only if it can be shown that there >is no use not related to weaponry.  Licenses should be available for >research purposes on such chemicals.  	This is laughable.  Licenses?  Right.  So then I would need a 	license to possess chlorine gas?  It is a weapons grade poison. 	Would I be breaking the law then if I were to, say, pour Chlorox 	on the spot where my cat pissed on the floor?  The reaction of 	ammonia and bleach liberates pure chlorine gas.  Do I go to jail 	for this?  Why or why not?  	Would I need a license to possess other chemical agents?  What about 	nicotine?  Deadly poison, and rather fast acting.  Must I now become 	licensed to posess tobacco?  And what about nicotine sulphate, an even 	deadlier poison?  Will I need a license to possess this type of  	insecticide?  What about Raid(tm)?  Black Flag?  Gasoline?  Benzene? 	Hydrazine (a violent poison)?  	Will I go to jail for possessing a can of tomatoes that went bad with 	botulinus?  	What about my mom & pop QC lab where I use cyanogen bromide (mustard 	gas) to do lot analysis on certain non-prescription pharmaceuticals?  	What if I wish to use potassium cyanide to recover gold from aqua 	regia?  A license?   	Would I need a license to possess Beryllium, perhaps the most poisonous 	non-radioactive metal?  How about Beryllium-Copper alloy?  	Do I need a license for nitrate fertilizers which *could* be used to 	make VERY powerful explosive devices such as the one that the IRA 	recently detonated, killing 1 and injuring 45?  	Can I have vinegar without license?  Hydrogen peroxide?  Where is the  	line drawn?      >I am not a lawyer, but these ideas could certainly be a basis for  >definitions.
eesnyder@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Eric E. Snyder) writes:    >I came across the following notice in the Denver Post classified secctio  >this morning (April 26, 1993):  >\begin{quote}  >NOTICE:  >The Denver Post will no longer knowingly accept any advertisement to buy >or sell assault weapons.  The Denver Post finds that the use of assault >weapons poses a threat to the health, safety, and security of its reader .  >\end{quote}  >Now I suppose the Post is within its rights to refuse such ads.  However  >the second sentence is so noxious, I feel compelled to bring it to the  >attention of the t.p.g/c.g readership.    >I called the Post classified number (825-2525) and expressed my displeas re.  >According to the supervisor I spoke to, the Post was reacting to public >complaints regarding the running of assult weapon ads.  However, she sai  >the paper was keeping track of the reaction to the change in policy.  I  >strongly encourage Denver Post readers to call and make their feelings k own.  >Eric E. Snyder                             >Department of MCD Biology              ...making feet for childrens' sho s. >University of Colorado, Boulder    >Boulder, Colorado 80309-0347   Will do! I appreciate the thoughtfullness of the Post to not be an intermediary for such sales. The "Right to bear arms" is one of the most misapplied rights in our Constitution, and assault weapons go way beyond what is, or rather should be (imho), a "natural" right in America. Just ask the family of that boy shot back in September - the papers are full of stories about a child with an assult weapon with a "angelic face" (Post) who committed the murder without ever thinking.   This has all got to get under control. I applaud the Post for their bravery
In article <2077@rwing.UUCP>, pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto) writes: > I am sick, dismayed, discouraged.  And ASHAMED of our Administration. >  > It looks like the US now has their own little Tienamen Square.  The > FBI is portraying Korash as a psychopath, doing a deliberate mass suicide, > etc.  Possibly.  Possibly not.  I don't believe that the tear gas used > [...] > God Bless America - Land of the Free!!!  (past tense). >  > Well, maybe I AM overreacting.  But I see on the TV as I am typing where > govt spoksewoman (the new attorney general, known to be almost rabid > about private ownership of guns - wants to ban 'assault guns' and just > about everything else), is saying the FBI had "amazing restraint", then > falls back into the official goverenment line about how the BD were > guity of child abuse, and were into it in an on-going basis, and so on. > [...] > Am I having a vain hope that an honest investigation will occur on this > thing?  Or will it simply be whitewashed under the rug, and Business > as Usual will continue to be the Order of the Day in the New Order? > Who will be given the official title of "Thought Police", I wonder...?  	What a load of crap ! The BDs had absolutely NO RIGHT to fire 	upon the BATF agents. If they didn't know who they were at 	first, then they should have surrendered immediately when they 	did realize who they were dealing with. Little groups of loonies 	do not get to decide just what laws they will obey or disobey 	or what sorts of warrants are justified. Like the rest of us, 	they get their say at the voting booth and if their personal 	wants are not backed by the majority of voters, then too bad. 	If they wanted to keep automatic weapons, then they could apply 	for the proper permits. If they had a problem with the warrant 	then they get to argue that in court. In no event do they get 	to establish their own little nation inside our own and pretend 	that our laws and law-enforcement personel have no jurisdiction 	within their borders. You live on US territory, you live by 	US laws - period. (unless you are a congressman)  	Sure, the situation was handled badly by both the BATF and 	the FBI. It would have been all so easy to detain Koresh and 	his core members while they were out in the streets of Waco. 	The BATF, threatened with budget cuts, was trying for a 	propaganda coup ... and dragging the press along for the big 	commando-style assault is proof of that. They should be 	roasted for both their imcompetance and their mindset. On the 	other hand, they DID have the legal right to do what they did. 	Once the attack was begun, they should have pressed on and 	finished it rather than let an interminable situation like that 	take root.
> On the other hand, I wonder if, > with a face full of "massive amounts of CS," *I* would be able to escape > a burning tinder-box like that ranch house assuming my best efforts.  What ever happened to the 'Adobe Fortress' I kept hearing about? I thought this was a 'Cult Stronghold'! If the kgbatf knew it was a tinderbox, why didn't they just have all the talking heads line up and start huffin' and puffin?
In article <1993Apr22.175410.23214@starbase.trincoll.edu> () writes:   > >"Freed om of Religion" has absolutely nothing to do with building a small >arsenal and grooming 10-year old children to be your wife. "I'll come out >as soon as I finish my manuscript on the Seven Seals." Oh, OK, David. > >I agree that Koresh was as much of a victim as a perpetrator; this because >he grew up inside the cult, and engaged in a power struggle where his >supporters helped inflate his ego. > >That doesn't change the fact that he was a loose fucking cannon with a >shitload of serious weapons. Or that he was banging thirteen year olds and >twisting their impressionable little minds. > >This was no MOVE fuck-up. A helicoptor was thermal-imaging the compound >that afternoon and detected three fires erupting almost simultaneously. >There were no CS CANISTERS... a specially modified Abrams was pupming the >stuff in. No chance of starting a fire there. Kerosene lamps? Maybe one, >but not three fires. No way. Koresh wasn't just talking out of his ass. I >expected this to happen. > >Maybe they WANTED it to look like murder. He had 50+ days. I think this was >coming the whole time. He didn't even put the children in the buried bus or >the underground bunker during the CS seige. He put them up into the tower >to die. Fuck all of you "Big Brother" paranoid freaks. The only good thing >to come of any of this is that there will be one less group of crazoids to >attract some of the more rootless members of our society. >   I'd have to agree with you there Joe.
In article <feustelC5tw49.7p5@netcom.com> feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) writes: >I predict that the outcome of the study of what went wrong with the >Federal Assault in Waco will result in future assaults of that type >being conducted as full-scale military operations with explicit >shoot-to-kill directives.  And done in SECRET ... :-)  Did anybody notice it is the TREASURY DEPT (The FBI and BATF, in other words) that Clinton wants to do the investigation?  In other words, investigating themselves?  He sure didn't seem very enthusiastic about Congress doing the investigation, I notice:  "... well, they can do what they want..."  (Probably insert a pout here...)  Does anybody smell the attempt for a WHITEWASH?  Betcha the Justice Dept investigation will, AT MOST say "Possible Poor Judjement.  Too bad..."  Grrr.  >--  >Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com> > >I'm beginning to look forward to reaching the %100 allocation of taxes >to pay for the interest on the national debt. At that point the >federal government will be will go out of business for lack of funds.
In article <1993Apr21.021301.25113@r-node.hub.org>, ndallen@r-node.hub.org (Nigel Allen) writes: > Here is a press release from the White House.  >      Number one, that there was a limit to how long the > federal authorities could maintain with their limited resources the > quality and intensity of coverage by experts there.    Lucky they brought the situation to a prompt resolution before they had to  turn things over to the amateurs.  > They might be needed in other parts of the country.  God help us all. --
>>That's The BD side of the story.  The other is that D. Koresh met >>agents at the door with a weapon.  Remember the affidavit indicates >>that Koresh had spent $200,000 on assault weapons in the past year and >>now we know that the 'bunker' adjacent to the house is thigh deep with >>a million rounds of ammunition.    	* The news statement was that there was $200,000 worth of "firearms 	  and ammunition (no mention of "assault weapons")" on the premises, 	  not that Koresh had purchased them (what would his crime be if he 	  had?).  This averages to about $2000 per person, not an astronomical 	  number.  	* We don't know that there is a thigh-deep pile of a million rounds... 	  we know that the FBI SAYS there is a pile of a million rounds.
In article <1pkojmINNmuq@cae.cad.gatech.edu>, vincent@cad.gatech.edu (Vincent Fox) writes: > In a separate post over on soc.culture.usa she explicitly said that while > she cross-posts to t.p.g and sets follow-ups to there, she does not READ > talk.politics.guns. If you think about it, it's a clever way of keeping > some of the politer respondents who will edit their newsgoup line, or > properly use the follow-up: from being heard over there. It also makes it > easier for her to claim all she ever sees is "squeaky weasels".  > So if you want her to see your insiteful analysis, e-mail it. If you > want to point out her flaws in public, make sure your newsgroup line > includes soc.culture.usa.  To keep from flooding s.c.u, I e-mailed it.  However, I agree that it's quite the sneaky trick.  No more than I would expect, however. --
In article <1993Apr20.143255.12711@mcs.kent.edu> mhamilto@Nimitz.mcs.kent.edu   (The Lawnmowerman) writes: >Also >    someone should have told David and his followers that if they can't the   heat >    then they should stay out of the kitchen!! (pun intended) >  This tops the cold-hearted bastard list!  Unbelievable!  Had this countries   morals sunk this low, that the death of innocent people is so callously viewed?  > Flame off >  > " Aaah Daniaalson yah wanna fight,  fight me!!"       > --  >   +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Matthew R. Hamilton   | mhamilto@mcs.kent.edu    |      A.K.A                | > | CS/ Physics Major     | 1499h751@ksuvxb.kent.edu |   (The Lawnmowerman)      | > | Kent State University	| 1299h751@ksuvxb.kent.edu |		  	     | >   +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > |                                                                              | > |                                                                              | > |      Look here for future advice.quotes.sayings.jibberish.philosohy          | > |                                                                              | >   +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+   -- jmd@handheld.com
from alt.law-enforcement  In article <1993Apr20.212245.3186@msus1.msus.edu>, hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu (Robert A. Hayden) writes: > I only caught about the last 15 minutes of this show (I hope to see it > when it repeats later), but did manage to catch the summary.  > According to Koresh's lawyer and some other guy (who I am not sure who he > is), The Davidians _DID_NOT_ start the fire and apparently made several > attempts at escaping but were blocked by smoke, fire, and FBI tanks.  > He states this after interviews with thoses 9 Davidians that escaped.  > They indicated that their was no suicide pact and that the fire was set by > the FBI (I got that impression, not sure about that).  > Something about this whole mess just doesn't smell right.  It didn't Feb. > 28th and is doesn't now.  > --  > [> Robert Hayden                   ____   <]  Black Holes result from God  > [>                                 \  /__ <]  dividing the universe by zero.  > [> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu  \/  / <]   > [> aq650@slc4.INS.CWRU.Edu            \/  <]  # include std_disclaimer.h  --
Frank Crary (fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU) wrote: : In article <1pqsruINNiae@hp-col.col.hp.com> dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff) writes: : The Swiss population is (and well was) far larger than that. I think : your question should be, "...losing sleep over a million expert : riflemen?" Certainly he could have conquered Switzerland, but : a million armed militiamen (especially in a mountainous area,  : where tanks' effectiveness is limited) would have made it a : real pain. The question a conqueror would ask, is "is it worth  : the trouble?" The more difficult an invasion is, the more likely : the answer would be "no." Certainly a million riflemen (as : opposed to a professional army of only ten or twenty thousand, the : best a country the size of Switzerland could support), makes : invasions more difficult.     Hitler invaded Yugoslavia and occupied it.  The mountainous portions were sometimes patrolled by the wermacht, but they were certainly not in control. There were two major native factions opposing each other and the germans, It was basically useless to the germans (no production) and a drain on their resources (a armored division and a couple of infantry divisions) Which if my memory is correct, were kind of stuck there up until the allies accepted their surrender.  (I think that the allies also let the germans keep some  of their weapons for self defense unitil they were able to get to the  lowlands, away from the resistance factions.  This is from memory, and  it is unreliable.
According to WNCI 97.9 FM radio this morning, Dayton, Ohio is operating a gun "buy back".  They are giving $50 for every functional gun turned in. They ran out of money in one day, and are now passing out $50 vouchers of some sort.  They are looking for more funds to keep operating.  Another media-event brought to you by HCI.  Is there something similar pro-gun people can do ?  For example, pay $100 to anyone who lawfully protects their life with a firearm ?  Sounds a bit tacky, but hey, whatever works.
Mr. Nice Guy (rcanders@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote: : The Branch Davidians were not violent and were not planning to start : violence. :   : When the BD compound was assaulted by the ATF the BD did fire back. : But they agreed to a cease fire and they allowed the ATF to care for : their wounded.  The BD even released the ATF agents they captured.  It : is clear from the release of the agents and allowing the ATF medical : attention that the BD were not looking for trouble.    This is the first I've heard of the BD capturing and releasing ATF agents. Is there any more info about this?
In article <C5rpoJ.IJv@news.udel.edu> roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes: > >Well they had over 40 days to come out with their hands up on national tv  >to get the trial they deserved.  Instead they chose to set fire to their  >compund hours after the tanks dropped off the tear gas.  This is about the third person who's parroted the FBI's line about the fires being set "six hours after the tear gas was injected."  Suppose you want to explain to us the videotape footage shown on national TV last night in which a tank with the gas-injecting tubes is pulling its injection tubes out of the second story of a building as the building begins to belch smoke and then fire?  Do tell.
Does anybody have any solid data on how many legally owned versus illegally owned firearms are used in crime.  I know the number of legally owned guns used in crime is small, but I would like a number, and a reference if possible.  Data should be e-mailed to me. Open discussion should be directed to talk.politics.guns  -Seth  __________________________________________________________________________ [unlike cats] dogs NEVER scratch you when you wash them. They just become very sad and try to figure out what they did wrong. -Dave Barry
I have also heard about HCI claiming thant anyone they  get an address from is a member.  If this is the case their membership rolls are grossly inflated and we should not call them and give them a name and address to add to their already false rolls.  Perhaps if you could get a copy of their existing membership, then pretend to be an existing member, do that several thousand times, you could hurt HCI.  But names are power.  Remeber the NRA uses the fact that it has 3 million paid members in order to flex its muscles.  Perhaps politicians don't realize the lying tactics of HCI, wait a minute, HCI learned it from politicians....
fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary @ University of Colorado, Boulder):  >I don't know about animal attacks, but there are 23,500 murders >each year and under 500 die in the manner you suggest. If only >2.1% of the murders were killings by "wacko"s, you would be >wrong. Worse, there are also 102,500 rapes and 1,055,000 aggravated >assaults each year. These numbers make violent attacks, and >preventing them, thousands of times more significant than the >accidents you are worried about.    These stats are invalid; we're talking BACKCOUNTRY. These stats for  rapes/assaults/deaths do not represent the backcountry singularly; the  great majority represent urban incidents. You should have pointed this out.