waashk/20ng huggingface dataset:
Davidian-babble:  >The Turkish government feels it can funnel a heightened state of ultra- >nationalism existing in Turkey today onto UseNet and convince people via its  >revisionist, myopic, and incidental view of themselves and their place in the  >world.   Turkish government on usenet? How long are you going to keep repeating this utterly idiotic [and increasingly saddening] drivel?  oz
In article <1993Apr28.010847.418@cs.ucla.edu> steven@surya.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Berson) writes: >hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes: > >[ ... Mr. Mamaysky's proposal to forbid "any action which serves to promote a >      morally incorrect action" omitted for brevity ...] > >I prefer the freedom granted in the first amendment of the US >Constitution to an arbitrary definition of "universal morality."  "Society" is impossible without some shared set of moralities, sense of what is "god" and what is "bad" action and basic foundation of  something "universal".  >Steve >P.S.  I can elaborate in e-mail if this isn't clear >P.P.S.  I'm very sorry about misspelling your name >--  >========================================================================= >Steven Berson           UCLA Computer Science Department   (310) 825-3189 >steven@cs.ucla.edu      Los Angeles, CA 90024-1596 >=========================================================================
In article <1su2tf$f7r@venus.haverford.edu> Michael Sells <m_sells@haverford.edu> writes:  >You've asked a crucial question that underlies much of the genocide.  >Bosnian Muslims are slavic in ethnicity. They speak Serbo-Croatian. But >there is a Christo-Slavic ideology whereby all true slavs are Christian >and anyone who converted to Islam thereby must have changed ethnicity by >changing religion.     "Muslim" in ex-Yugoslavia was a *nation* not a religion.  In fact, not all Muslims in B-H are followers of Islam.  Therefore, there do (did?) exist in ex-Yugoslavia "Christian Muslims."  Tito defined the Muslim  nation constitutionally, adding Muslims to Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, the three founding nations which entered into a voluntary union at the end of WWI.  In addition, Tito added two other nations constitutionally: Montenegrins, and Makedonijans.   Nations had the right of secession, but republics did not.  So, "Muslim" is much more a political term than a religious term (for those who  differentiate between religion and politics, that is) in B-H.  It was not  a "Christo-Slavic" ideology that made a Muslim nation in Yugoslavia, it was the "Atheist Communist" ideology of Tito.  Before Tito, there was no Muslim nation in Yugoslavia.    The war is not a religious war, and it is not an ethnic war.  It is a civil war in which the terms of secession are being negotiated with guns instead of pens.  The Croat, Muslim, and Serb political leaders *all* chose to fight over the terms of secession instead of compromising and peacefully negotiating multilateral secession agreements.
From: Center for Policy Research <cpr> Subject: Poem by Erich Fried    Poem by German-Jewish poet Erich Fried (Holocaust survivor)  Ein Jude an die zionistischen Kaempfer - 1988      von Erich Fried  Was wollt ihr eigentlich ?  Wollt ihr wirklich die uebertreffen die euch niedergetreten haben vor einem Menschenalter in euer eigenes Blut und in euren eigenen Kot ?  	 *  Wollt ihr die alten Foltern jetzt an andere weitergeben mit allen blutigen dreckigen Einzelheiten mit allem brutalen Genuss die Folterknechte wie unsere Vaeter sie damals erlitten haben ?         *  Wollt jetzt wirklich ihr die neue Gestapo sein die neue Wehrmacht die neue SA and SS und aus den Palaestinensern die neuen Juden machen ?        *  Aber dann will auch ich weil ich damals vor fuenfzig Jahren selbst als ein Judenkind gepeinigt wurde von euren Peinigern ein neuer Jude sein mit diesen neuen Juden zu denen ihr die Palaestinenser macht         *  Und ich will sie zurueckfuehren helfen als freie Menschen in ihr eigenes Land Palaestina aus dem ihr sie vertrieben habt oder in dem ihr sie quaelt ihr Hakenkreuzlehrlinge ihr Narren und Wechselbaelge der Weltgeschichte denen der Davidstern auf euren Fahnen sich immer schneller verwandelt in das verfluchte Zeichen mit den vier Fuessen das ihr nun nicht sehen wollt aber dessen Weg ihr heut geht !
We really should try to be as understanding as we can for Brad, because it appears killing is all he knows.
In article <C6sqCo.IID@ucdavis.edu>, ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu () writes: |> After reading plenty of categorical remarks claiming the arrival of the  |> restoration of colonialismo, could anyone 1) define colonialismo, 2) indicate |> what colonial countries remain, 3) indicate what changes indicate that there |> is a restoration in the making?  I'll leave questions 1 and 2 to be answered elsewhere, but on question 3) something in the noos today might be an example of the restoration might be. Namely, that the Clinton Administration is considering asking the UN to  establish a police force for Haiti.  I didn't hear any thing that said that the current Govt. of Haiti asked for it, nor is there any real precedent (barring Somalia) for the UN getting involved in internal conflicts.  That might also answer question 2). The neo-colonial countries are a diffuse lot - the UN (Security Council).  And while I am at it, I'll take a stab at 1) - the new colonialism, as defined in most articles I have read, would entail something of the nature of Trusteeship under the UN Sec. Council, democracy, aid, education, free-markets, free press and then out for the colonialists, now assured that there is a "civilized"  country that they have left behind.  Note I don't support this idealized concept, simply because I think it is a lot of hogwash.  --  Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu  If The University of Illinois shares these views, I'd be surprised. They aren't that smart generally -:).
In article <1993Apr19.213345.28299@freenet.carleton.ca> aa624@Freenet.carleton. ca (Suat Kiniklioglu) [a.k.a. Kubilay Kultigin] wrote:  [KK] Bugunlerde "jewish jokes" muhabbetlerinden esinlenerek sunu [KK] yazayim dedim. [KK] [KK]        "Israel was able to divert the Jewish lobby from the Greeks, [KK]        for example, by persuading it that supporting the Armenian [KK]        resolution which came before the Senate in February 1990 [KK]        could help sour Turco-Israeli relations. In addition, the [KK]        Israeli embassy in Washington was active in ensuring that the [KK]        resolution failed, for instance by assisting Turkish Jews to [KK]        travel to Wahington to underline the affinity between Israel [KK]        and Turkey. [KK] [KK]        There was no doubt about the debt which Turkey felt it owed [KK]        to Israel over this matter. Even four months before the re- [KK]        solution came up for consideration, as enior member of the [KK]        Turkish Foreign Ministry said his country was "very grateful" [KK]        to Israel, the cooperation, in his view, refelecting the  [KK]        maturity of the bilateral relationship. The experience over [KK]        the Armenian issue has convinced senior figures in Turkey [KK]        that the pro-Israel network in Washington can indeed deliver [KK]        the desired results. [KK] [KK]	[Robins Philip, "Turkey and the Middle East" 1991 Chathm House [KK]	 Papers. p. [KK] [KK]        papers p.84]   [KK] got to go now  Not so fast! You have a rather warped sense of logic! You are telling us that because Israel wishes to have good relations with Turkey even at the expense of Armenians or Armenia, makes it bad for Turks to tell racist jokes against  Jews. Thus, we can infer, if Israel had poor relations with Turkey, it would be alright to post such horrible jokes against Jews!   You impress nobody.
backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes: : In article <1pll52$sms@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes: : >>     WHO is Josie Hadas? :  :  : I see you didn't notice my recent posting. :  : The FBI found that "Josie Hadas" was simply an alias taken by Salameh. :   I have the sources for the information in the Chronology, including the NY Daily News of March 5 that reports the arrest of Josie Hadas and a copy of the foreign press reports of her release shortly afterwards.  What is the source for your alias story?  And pray tell me how can the FBI arrest and release an alias? :  : >>     WHAT is the relationship between that person and the Israeli mussad? :  : Zilch, zero, nothing. Like the IQ of the idiot who posted this absurdity in the : first place.
In article <737257015@marlin.cs.duke.edu> wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Eduard Wiener) writes:  >    culture was in Russia proper, not in the Ukraine.  I think >    all these attempts to prove that Russians are descendants of >    Finns, Ukrainians of Tatars, Bulgarians of Bashkirs, and >    Croats of Iranians are based more on speculation than evidence.  Owieneramus. Always has to stick his 'ASALA/SDPA/ARF' made nose into  every discussion with non-points and lies. Well, still anxiously awaiting...   Source: Cemal Kutay, "Ottoman Empire," vol. II., p. 188.      "The atrocities and massacres which have been committed for a long time  against the Muslim population within the Armenian Republic have been   confirmed with very accurate information, and the observations made by  Rawlinson, the British representative in Erzurum, have confirmed that  these atrocities are being committed by the Armenians. The United States  delegation of General Harbord has seen the thousands of refugees who came   to take refuge with Kazim Karabekir's soldiers, hungry and miserable,   their children and wives, their properties destroyed, and the delegation  was a witness to the cruelties. Many Muslim villages have been destroyed  by the soldiers of Armenian troops armed with cannons and machine guns  before the eyes of Karabekir's troops and the people. When it was hoped  that this operation would end, unfortunately since the beginning of   February the cruelties inflicted on the Muslim population of the region  of Shuraghel, Akpazar, Zarshad, and Childir have increased. According  to documented information, 28 Muslim villages have been destroyed in the  aforementioned region, more than 2,000 people have been slaughtered,  many possessions and livestock have been seized, young Muslim women  have been taken to Kars and Gumru, thousands of women and children who  were able to flee their villages were beaten, raped and massacred in the  mountains, and this aggression against the properties, lives, chastity   and honour of the Muslims continued. It was the responsibility of the  Armenian Government that the cruelties and massacres be stopped in order   to alleviate the tensions of Muslim public opinion due to the atrocities   committed by the Armenians, that the possessions taken from the Muslims  be returned and that indemnities be paid, that the properties, lives,  and honour of the Muslims be protected."   Serdar Argic
stssdxb@st.unocal.com (Dorin Baru) writes: > Even the most extemist, one sided (jewish/israeli) postings (with which I  > certainly disagree), did not openly back plain murder. You do. >  > The 'Lebanese resistance' you are talking about is a bunch of lebanese  > farmers who detonate bombs after work, or is an organized entity of not- > only-lebanese well trained mercenaries ? I do not know, just curious. >  > I guess you also back the killings of hundreds of marines in Beirut, right? >  > What kind of 'resistance' movement killed jewish attlets in Munich 1972 ? >  > You liked it, didn't you ? >  >  > You posted some other garbage before, so at least you seem to be consistent. >  > Dorin  Dorin, Let's not forget that the soldiers were killed not murdered. The distinction is not trivial. Murder happens to innocent people, not people whose line of work is to kill or be killed. It just so happened that these soldiers, in the line of duty, were killed by the opposition. And resistance is different from terrorism. Certainly the athletes in Munich were victims of terrorists (though some might call them freedom fighters). Their deaths cannot be compared to those of soldiers who are killed by resistance fighters. Don't forget that it was the French Resistance to the Nazi occupying forces which eventually succeeded in driving out the hostile occupiers in WWII. Diplomacy has not worked with Israel and the Lebanese people are tired of being occupied! They are now turning to the only option they see as viable. (Don't forget that it worked in driving out the US)  -marc
In article <1483500364@igc.apc.org> Center for Policy Research <cpr@igc.apc.org> writes: > >Dear folks, > >I am still awaiting for some sensible answer and comment.  Dear Elias,   I counted at least 4 such answers in public (plus whatever private email replies you may have received), yet you refuse to accept anything.  Perhaps you are better off in the private world of the "Center for Policy Research" in Iceland where you can define "sensible" in whatever way makes you feel most comfortable.
In article <1su2tf$f7r@venus.haverford.edu> Michael Sells <m_sells@haverford.edu> writes: > >Thus, while a war rages between Serbs and Croats as a continuation of >WWII, and older agenda, the annihilation of Islam and Muslims from >Bosnian, is being carried out under the cover of the Serbo-Croat war. >  The annihilation of Islam ("Turks") is an older Serbian agenda.   But I strongly dispute your notion that Croats had a similar older agenda, in fact, for the past century or two, Croats and Muslims have seen themselves as having a lot in common, and they generally had friendly relations.  Your suggestion that Croat-Muslim relationship is  anything like Serb-Muslim relationship is completely wrong.  To say that Croats and Muslims have a lot in common does not imply they are not separate peoples.  The events of the past two years clearly show Muslim determination to remain separate: in their alliance with Croats, they maintained this separation.  Croats would have accepted a much closer relationship, I think.  This century plus of building bridges between these two friendly peoples is now at risk, because of the inexorable logic of war.    Since Bosnian Serbs (32% of population) have 10 times more heavy weapons than Bosnian Muslims (44%) and Croats (17%) combined, they have squeezed Muslims and Croats into only 30% of the territory. Muslims lost more territory than Croats (who built defenses early on).  Under these conditions, any alliance is bound to fall apart since it is easier to recover lost land from Croats than from Serbs. The only thing keeping this in check was the hope of reversal of fortunes through foreign military intervention and lifting of the arms embargo.  Since Warren Christopher had no luck persuading the Europeans to go along with this, this hope was dashed.  Having no prospect of outside help, the former allies turned on each other, like two starved animals in a tight cage.  This inexorable logic, of course, got plenty of help from Serbian intelligence operatives, who were doing everything to build mistrust between Croats and Muslims for over a year.  A timely intervention to stop Serbian aggression would have prevented this.  Sadly, nothing was done to create a balance of power on the ground.  As long as the Serbs enjoy 10:1 advantage, they can  break any alliance, even among friends.  This is tragic, but hardly new: "divide et impera" was used by ancient Romans with success.  In my view, Bosnian Muslims and Croats managed to resist this divisive strategy reasonably well until May 9, 1993, when the hope of reversal of fortunes was lost.    I have a question for the distinguished diplomats: do they believe Balkan peoples are experimental cannon fodder?  I'd like to know what did they expect when they decided to enforce the arms embargo which solidified Serbian 10:1 advantage in heavy weapons; how did they expect to prevent fragmentation of the Muslim and Croat defense forces;  and how on Earth do they hope to restore peace without justice?  The implications of this immoral approach I cannot begin to predict, but I am filled with foreboding...
In article <C6z45I.H4K@me.utoronto.ca> arnsenad@me.utoronto.ca (Senad Arnautovic) writes:  >It is the Croats that were divided, at least 70,000 were left in Serbian >province of Vojvodina. It is the Muslims that were divided, 200,000 >left in the region of Sanjak that now belongs to Serbia.    If Croats are now divided, it is because Croatia seceded from Yugoslavia. Croats in Croatia, B-H, and Serbia were in *one* country--Yugoslavia-- until they divided themselves.   If Muslims are now divided, it is because B-H seceded from Yugoslavia. Muslims in Croatia, B-H, and Serbia were in *one* country--Yugoslavia-- until they divided themselves.  That Croats and Muslims in Yugoslavia decided to divide themselves does *not* give them the right to divide Serbs in Yugoslavia.  Croatia and B-H shoulder the burden for dividing their own nations among various unstable countries.
Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages).  (Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5   million Muslim people)  p. 193.  "Their [Muslim] villages were destroyed and they themselves were slain or   driven out of the country."  p. 218.   "We Armenians did not spare the Tartars. If persisted in, the slaughtering   of prisoners, the looting, and the rape and massacre of the helpless become   commonplace actions expected and accepted as a matter of course.   I have been on the scenes of massacres where the dead lay on the ground,  in numbers, like the fallen leaves in a forest. They had been as helpless  and as defenseless as sheep. They had not died as soldiers die in the  heat of battle, fired with ardor and courage, with weapons in their hands,  and exchanging blow for blow. They had died as the helpless must, with  their hearts and brains bursting with horror worse than death itself."   Serdar Argic
> Problem 1 >  > My father told me the following story. During the famous wars between the  > Armenians and the Persians, prince Zaurak Kamsarakan performed extraordinary  > heroic deeds. Three times in a single month he attacked the Persian troops.  > The first time, he struck down half of the Persian army. The second time,  > pursuing the Persians, he slaughtered one fourth of the soldiers. The third  > time, he destroyed one eleventh of the Persian army. The Persians who were  > still alive, numbering two hundred eighty, fled to Nakhichevan. And so, from  > this remainder, find how many Persian soldiers there were before the   massacre. >   Answer: a(1-1/2-1/4-1/11)=280 -> a = 1760
(Mohammed Elabdellaoui) writes: > >Muslims helping the Nazis???  Where on earth do you come up with such >accuusation??  Do you have proofs??  If not, you should publically apologize >for such a statement.  Last time I heard, the nazis prided themselves in >needing no body to carry their politics and ideologies.  And if your statment >were true, don't you think Israel would of used it to point to what a Muslim >neighbor (PALESTINE) could do to them if they allowed it to be?  The jewish >lobby and power is very strong, and if what you said is true, we would of >heard it from them before you could come up with it. >And you dare say that you are taking no sides!!  My reference is a 4 page essay in our local Star Tribute newspaper putting the whole conflict in perspective. I will readily admit that I am no authority in this area; however, other posteers  asserted that *some* Muslims did join hands with Croats and Nazis in persecuting Serbs. In any case, past actions do not in any way validate or legitimize what is happending there now.  I sincerely do apologize to the extent the author of the essay was wrong in making the assertion he made.   Maybe, some student of history may put this in perspective.  Satya Prabhakar
In article <1r8p0j$60v@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes: > >   Although I realize that principle is not one of your strongest >points, I would still like to know why do do not ask any question >of this sort about the Arab countries.  Kaufman, I think we have a problem in this newsgroup: every time somebody puts down serious questions on Israel, the first response would be "what about the Arab countries?" ...  Most of the Arab countries governments are ruling their people with Iron fist policy and Dark Ages democracy (if exists). Ironically, these are  the countries that the "West" would like to deal with and would wage  massive wars to protect them and their resources.  For Israel the situation is different, Israel claims it is a democracy -- I would call it selective democracy, that abides by Western democratic standards. If Israel is saying that then it has to be compared to Western standards. If this comparison is the advertized propaganda from Israel, then we have to look at seriously at question that can and should be asked regarding any country advertizing this standard.  > >   If you want to continue this think tank charade of yours, your >fixation on Israel must stop.  You might have to start asking the >same sort of questions of Arab countries as well.  You realize it >would not work, as the Arab countries' treatment of Jews over the >last several decades is so bad that your fixation on Israel would >begin to look like the biased attack that it is. > That is very incorrect, I see you have been brain-washed well, I would recommend non-Zionist history books).  >   Everyone in this group recognizes that your stupid 'Center for >Policy Research' is nothing more than a fancy name for some bigot >who hates Israel.  Please, speak for yourself. Do not imagine that "everyone" subscribes to your beliefs, you would be lucky if you believe them yourself.  > >   Why don't you try being honest about your hatred of Israel?  I >have heard that your family once lived in Israel, but the members >of your family could not cut the competition there.  Is this true >about your family?  Is this true about you?  Is this actually not >about Israel, but is really a personal vendetta?  Why are you not > ............  What is this, you trying to destroy the credibility of the author, why? all of this because he asked some serious question. These tactics of destroying the credibility of a person beacuse you do not agree with her/him is old and does not work anymore, go tell your superiors (AIPAC?) to change their guide books.   Salam,  Eyad Nuweiri Software Engineer Unify Corp.		  *** Disclaimer: This is my personal views, not of my employer ***