In article <1993Apr3.201408.4999@hobbes.kzoo.edu>, k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie R. McCarthy) writes: > cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: # #Unfortunately, homosexuals don't believe in this concept of freedom. # #They believe that they have a right to FORCE people to hire them, # #rent to them, and do business with them, regardless of the feelings # #or beliefs of the other person. #  # Allow me to point out that Clayton is once again unfairly lumping an # entire class of people, as if they all have one will.  Having completely # dived into the abyss of believing that there are no queers in the world # who think differently from the child-molestation-advocating minority on # soc.motss, he doesn't even notice that he's starting a sentence with # "They believe" when the referent of that "they" is millions of people. # "...so few as to be irrelevant..."  If you don't want to be lumped together as a group, stop insisting on being treated as a member of a group.  # dreitman@oregon.uoregon.edu (Daniel R. Reitman, Attorney to Be) writes: # # Force people to hire?  No.  Require people to give them a fair  # # look?  Yes. #  # cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: # #You give them a fair look.  You decide that you don't want to hire # #the guy wearing the NAMBLA T-shirt.  He files a lawsuit.  You lose. # #Yes, such laws force you to hire homosexuals. #  # Pedophiles, as well?  Sexual orientation is not defined by the anti-discrimination law that was passed last year.  Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation?  # And, Cramer, let me describe how you'd have it, and see if this is # accurate.  I apply for a job at a computer company.  They see I'm # wearing some article of homosexual adornment, I dunno, maybe a # "Silence = Death" pin or something.  They turn me down because of # that.  I can't do a darned thing and have to go look somewhere else. # Am I correct in assuming that you wholeheartedly approve of the # company's actions, or at least that you wholeheartedly support their # right to take that action?  I wholeheartedly support their right to take this action.  I wouldn't do it myself, unless it was something like the NAMBLA T-shirt.  # How about:  a black man applies for a job at a bank.  The bank decides, # based on statistics, a black person would be more likely to steal # money, and denies the man the job.  Would you support the bank's right # to this freedom?  If not, explain how this differs.  I support their right to do so (just like I support your right to  engage in sodomy with consenting adults), but I think they are doing  something wrong.  I wouldn't do business with such a bank.  # Clayton has repeatedly said that California's statutes classify # pedophilia as a sexual orientation, and that discriminating on the # basis of sexual orientation is illegal. #  # If true, I'm frankly amazed.  But I don't trust Clayton to give me # the whole story.  Would someone clarify for me whether this is true, # what sort of discrimination Clayton's talking about (jobs? housing? # hate crimes?), and whether the effect of the law is really that # a daycare has to hire an admitted pedophile. # --  #  Jamie McCarthy		Internet: k044477@kzoo.edu	AppleLink: j.mccarthy  Here's the law that was passed and signed by the governor:       The people of the State of California do enact as follows:   1       SECTION 1.  The purpose of this act is to codify  2  existing case law as determined in Gay Law Students v.  3  Pacific Telephone and Telegraph, 24 Cal. 3d 458 (1979)  4  and Soroka v. Dayton Hudson Corp., 235 Cal. App. 3d 654  5  (1991) prohibiting discrimination based on sexual  6  orientation.  7       SEC. 2.  Section 1102. is added to the Labor Code, to  8  read:  9       1102.1.  (a) Sections 1101 and 1102 prohibit 10  discrimination or disparate treatment in any of the terms 11  and conditions of employment based on actual or 12  perceived sexual orientation.               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  13       (b)  This section shall not apply to a religious 14  association or corporation not organized for private 15  profit, whether incorporated as a religious or public 16  benefit corporation.