In article <24APR199302290235@utarlg.uta.edu>, b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (stephen) writes: > In article <1993Apr21.190441.4282@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>,  > f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes... >  >>In article <1993Apr21.164554.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu>,  >>parys@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes: >>> I told some friends of mine two weeks ago that Koresh was dead.   >>> The FBI and the BATF could not let a man like that live. He was  >>> a testimonial to their stupidity and lies.     >>>  >>	[...deleted...] >>  >>Unfortunately, I think you've got it figured pretty well.  I also ask >>myself the question "Why did they plan for so many months.  Why was >>this so important to them?  What was the government really up to? >>Why did they seal the warrant?  Were they after Koresh or were they  >>after the first and second amendments, among others? >  > Allow me to play devils advocate a moment JG:  Didn't expect to find you in the Devil's role, Stephen, but these are the times that try men's souls. >  > 	o  What was called many months of *planning* was probably > 	   the intelligence collecting: paperwork and interviews. >  Nine months, as I understand it.  No doubt this accounts for a  significant amount of the time as government efficiency in spending our tax dollars would certainly seek its absolute minimum in such an event.  But my gut instinct says there is more at hand.  It took some careful preplanning to demonize D.K. to such an extent.  The attack meshes well with more restrictive gun control legislation that seems to be the agenda of the day.  It also fits a pattern of increased government interference in personal religious beliefs. [Randy Weaver is now on trial].  > 	o  It's important to them because it justifies budgets. > No quarrel here.  The BIG BANG theory is always apt at appropriation time.  They just don't have to possess a single motive.   > 	o  The warrant was sealed to keep from jeopardizing the  > 	   the government's case.  I certainly think publication of the warrant undermines the government's case since it makes no claims of illegal action.  Therefore the federal judge had reason to seal it.  But I am reminded of Senator Frank Church's remark that "secrecy is the trademark of a totalitarian government." There is rarely sufficient motive to seal a warrant in a nation of free people. >  > 	o  There was probably no one actually exercising oversite. > 	   Instead, a system of bureaucratic rules has been set  > 	   up for such incidents. Like computer programs -- these > 	   have to be debugged periodically. Especially when used > 	   in fringe areas. (cf. the "hostage rescue" program). > 	   Therefore -- NO ONE WAS IN CHARGE. And no one can  > 	   reasonably be held responsible.   How can I argue with irrefutable logic?  I have long suspected that the government has become a mindless machine and now you go and confirm my worst fears!  Has it become a BEAST that is programmed simply to say "Kiss my toe and you get your piece of the pie?" I suspect bugs in the program arise when agents or those who love this critter have independent thoughts.   > 	o  What they were after, generally speaking, is protecting > 	   their jobs, budgets, and paychecks.  And watching Terminator II. >  >  >>> We waited 444 days for our hostages to come home from Iran.  We gave these >>> people 51 days.   >>>  >    186 died at the Alamo.  86 died that day in Waco.      Yes, 186 seeds for a new Republic.  And 86 for...? > 					 >    Rev. 11:9 ...And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and >              nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an >              half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put >              in graves.                >  >    Why no burial?  Is is that the bodies of the Witnesses will be said >    to be property of the state?  Or just a typical bureaucratic delay? >      Rev. 11:10...And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice 		over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one 		to another; because these two prophets tormented them 		that dwelt on the earth.  Stephen, have you sensed that some have been rejoicing lately....?   >       | >    -- J --      		 >       | >       | stephen  >  >