waashk/20ng huggingface dataset:
In article <C5L02E.8GH@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rbw3q@rayleigh.mech.Virginia.EDU (Brad Whitehurst) writes: >	The rest of us fall in the middle.  There IS too much violent >crime in the U.S., but turning the whole country into an old-time >Dodge City (ref. to American Old West) is not the way.  That's an interesting statement.  There's quite a difference between Hollywood's "Old West" and the real one.  Yes, there were drunks, saloons, mining camps, and thugs.  However, as McGrath showed, the thugs preyed almost exclusively on one another.  McGrath claims that this was due to the fact that no one much cared if someone who insisted on getting into a fight got his way, even if he lost, while they really did care when thugs preyed on others.  >citizens should be able to own weapons, but we see no sense in some >types.  We haven't figured out that those distinctions don't actually work. Machine guns have been strictly regulated since 1934.  Said regulation is both perfect (legally owned machine guns aren't ever used criminally) and a complete waste of time (the criminal use of machine guns hasn't change at all).  The result - we're now arguing about guns that LOOK like machine guns, but are no different than other guns.  -andy
In article <CMM.0.90.2.735315429.thomasp@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no> thomasp@ifi.uio.no (Thomas Parsli) writes: : : :	1. Make a new Newsgroup called talk.politics.guns.PARANOID or  :	talk.politics.guns.THEY'R.HERE.TO.TAKE.ME.AWAY : :	2. Move all postings about waco and burn to (guess where).. : :	3. Stop posting #### on this newsgroup ; :	We are all SO glad you're trying to save us from the evil  :	goverment, but would you mail this #### in regular mail to :	let's say 1000 people ???? :	 : :                        Thomas Parsli And everybody who talked about the evil arising in Europe was labeled  reactionary in the late 1930's... after all, we could negotiate with Hitler and trust him to keep his end of the bargain... at least that's what Stalin and Chamberlin thought... I guess they forgot to teach you about your country being overrun by the Germans in WWII, 'eh Thomas?  And I'm sorry you consider outrage at government excesses to be ####... Everytime the Israelis conduct a mass  operation against a terrorist group that is actively killing their citizens and soldiers, the world gets indignant, but it's ok for the US to assault it's own citizens who were a religous minority and accused of sexual deviation and  hoarding weapons... I find it real ironic this happened the same day Al Gore arrived in Poland to recognize the sacrifices made in the Warsaw Ghetto where the same 'justifications' were raised for an armed assault by black-clad troops with armor support...
In article <1993Apr21.113723.10103@synapse.bms.com> hambidge@bms.com writes: ]In article <C5sv88.HJy@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes: ]>In article <1r1j3n$4t@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: ]>>In article <1r19tp$5em@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, mfrhein@wpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Frederick Rhein) writes: ]>> ]>>> >napalm, then let the wood stove inside ignite it. ]>>>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ]>>> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm day   ]>>> in Texas.  ]>> ]>>Do YOU eat all your food cold? ]> ]>Ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves?  Very popular. ]>Electric stoves outside metro-areas especially. ] ]Ever hear about cutting off the electricity? That was done. ]How effective is an electric stove then?  Didn't the Branch Davidans have an emergency generator? Oh well, I don't think Brent thought of that anyway.
>lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes: > >>According to WNCI 97.9 FM radio this morning, Dayton, Ohio is operating a >>gun "buy back".  They are giving $50 for every functional gun turned in. >>They ran out of money in one day, and are now passing out $50 vouchers of >>some sort.  They are looking for more funds to keep operating.  Another >>media-event brought to you by HCI. >> >>Is there something similar pro-gun people can do ?  For example, pay $100 >>to anyone who lawfully protects their life with a firearm ?  Sounds a bit >>tacky, but hey, whatever works.  As David Veal points out, this sort of "promotion" would be used against gun owners by the mass media.  However, here is my proposal: offer gun safety classes in your area, free, as a community service.  Such a class would normally cost $40 or $50, so offering it free is a good promotion.  Our Gun Club has organized several of these (we just finished teaching another one last night, in fact) and they have been very well received.  We get a lot of people who are novices interested in guns.  We even get a few who are anti-gun, but feel they should know something about "gun safety" since members of their family keep guns at home.  Teaching such a course gives us many desirable benefits:  (1) We have the chance to teach gun safety rules; this increases     firearm awareness and may help to reduce gun accident stats.  (2) A "gun safety" class is Politically Correct, and likely to     be viewed positively by the public and the media.  (3) Most of the students are 'normal people' (not gun enthusiasts)     and this kind of class gives us the chance to give them a     gentle introduction to firearms.  (4) Some of the students are enthusiastic, and will purchase a gun     and become more involved in shooting or personal defense.  (5) It improves the public perception of our club and gun owners     in general.  Our students see that we are all reasonable,     non-aggressive, soft-spoken people, which helps to mitigate     the standard image of a hardcore gun owner.  Even anti-gun     students sometimes tell us they have "something new to think     about" with regards to personal gun ownership.  (6) Sharing our experience with others is a lot of fun.  Our course is the standard NRA-certified "Home Firearm Safety" class, and our students pay only $5 for materials.  We also teach the NRA's "Personal Protection" class, although the cost is higher for that one since we have to purchase range time.  I think firearms safety classes are an excellent response to gun buy-backs.
eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) writes:  >In <C601ED.CD6@cpqhou.se.hou.compaq.com>, thomasr@cpqhou.se.hou.compaq.com sez: >> >>The Houston Chronicle last Thursday (maybe Wednesday) said that >>the interior of walls had been covered with hay bales to help >>protect against bullets.  Many of you know how fast dry hay >>burns.  >This is all terribly interesting, but it doesn't belong in misc.legal. >Take it elsewhere, please.   But of course it does.   It's certainly a legal matter.  If it's not a legal matter that interest *you* you may simply put it in your kill file.
The Denver Post (supposed voice of the supposed Rocky Mountain Empire) ran the following in the 'Firearms, Supplies' classified heading on  Friday, 23 April 1993.  If you have an opinion about their new found wisdom, I am told that the person to speak with is one Mr. Walters, (303)820-1267.  	Notice  	The Denver Post will no longer  	knowingly accept any advertise- 	ment to buy or sell assault weap- 	ons.  The Denver Post finds that  	the use of assault weapons poses 	a threat to the health, safety, and 	security of its readers.  Let 'em know what you think...  --Dan -- Spooksmoke: Revolution, Assasination, Thorium, Cobalt-60, Clintin, CIA, NSA, SHC   DoD #202 / loki@acca.nmsu.edu / liberty or death / taylordf@ucsu.colorado.edu                   Send me something even YOU can't read... -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.2
In <1993Apr19.171602.27135@guinness.idbsu.edu> betz@gozer.idbsu.edu (Andrew Betz) writes: >In article <1993Apr19.153444.28112@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >>I'd be willing to go in as well. By the way, we wouldn't need to >>buy the network wholesale. Simply owning a large number of shares >>would still work (if 5% of the shareholders want pro-gun coverage >>and the rest don't really care, they'll go along just to keep  >>the 5% happy...)  >I'd go along with this plan as well.  Turner's stock is traded >on the American exchange and has 3 classes (A, B, and C).  A and >B stock is currently about 23 bucks a share; C stock is about 11 >bucks a share.  Does anybody have any idea how much stock TBS >has issued?  What would it take to reach 5%, 51%, or even 100%?  Um, I sortof hesitate to bring this up, but owning even a single share entitles you to attend the annual shareholders meeting, and under most corporate charters to introduce topics to be discussed.  While I *don't* suggest the tactic used by some in Japan (go to the shareholders meeting, and disrupt the bejeezus out of everything), what about a well-worded resolution complaining about "advocacy journalism"?
In article <nate.1507.735856109@psygate.psych.indiana.edu> nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu (Nathan Engle) writes: >    I admit I can't cite a specific, but if there isn't a law against  >purchasing grenade components and assembling them into functioning units  >then perhaps we need one. All second ammendment arguments aside, I'm just  >not sure that I like the idea of private citizens with hand grenades.  Are you aware you can make a grenade with gunpower and metal water pipes? Maybe we should outlaw hardware stores and ammo reloading.  Are you aware that you can make a firebomb with gasoline? etc.
In article <C5L480.K7u@elite.intel.com> dgw@elite.intel.com (Dennis Willson)  writes: >On March 8, I sent strongly worded letters critisizing the BATF in >their handling of the Randy Weaver and Branch Davidian cases to  >several politicians (Ore. Senators Bob Packwood and Mark Hatfield, >Representative Elizabeth Furse and Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen). >While I have never been a supporter of Bob Packwood, I must admit >that he seems to be the only one who has done anything but round-file >my letter.  Well, I didn't bother writing to Boxer, Feinstein or Eshoo, the terrible trio who allegly represent me.  Instead, I wrote to Bentsen.  My letter was not exactly strongly-worded; I simply stated that the BATF approach was immoral (military-style assault, firing into a house where they knew there were kids).  Aparently, Bentsen forwarded my letter to the BATF and they responded to  me directly.  It follows the text of your reply pretty closely.  However, I intend to send another letter directly to them, in return.  >Prior to the service of the Federal search warrant, numerous efforts >were made to locate and effect the arrest of David Koresh away from the >compound.  These efforts were unsuccessful.  Even if David Koresh had >been arrested while away from the compound, action would have been >required against his followers (who are just as violent as he) during >the subsequent search of the premises.  This section is not in the letter that I received.  The parts about ATF logo and steenking badges or their loss of the element of surprise were not included, either.  >                          Sincerely yours, > >                          Daniel M. H??l??tt  [can't make out signature] >                          Deputy Director  The same guy with the bad handwriting apparently signed my letter, "for Richard L. Garner; Chief, Special Operations Division".
I wrote a letter the other day to Empower America - the organization which claims to be championing conservative issues, esp. in the wake  of the Republican defeat last fall.   Some might consider them just a an organization to create a network of  support among conservatives for some individuals in prep. for '96 run.  You'd be close to the truth.  Their two leading spokesmen are Bill Bennett, former 'Drug Czar' who heartily supported Bush's semi-auto import ban, and wondered if it went far enough -  who helped put the big lie about 'sporting use' into the public's eye - and Jack Kemp - who recently came out in support of semi-auto bans.   These are conservatives ?   Anyway I thought it interesting that when I ran Word Perfect's spell check against my letter - it came up with the following corrections for 'Bennett' :  1. Banned 2. Bayonet   Needless to say, I found these choices rather amusing.   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "It [collectivism vs individualism] is an ancient conflict. Men have come close to the truth, but it was destroyed each time and one civilization fell after another. Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men."     -- Ayn Rand : 'Roark's speech from the _Fountainhead_' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I don't speak for my company. We hire the 'Politically Correct' to do that.
In article <1r0v4c$i1j@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)   writes: > In <1r0poqINNc4k@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com writes: >  > > In article <C5rDAw.4s4@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> zed@Dartmouth.EDU (Ted   > > Schuerzinger) writes: > > Well, it's now Tuesday morning.  Where are those two arsons, now?  I said   > > yesterday they would vanish, and there has been no further mention of them,   > > just the desired "impression" is left. >  >   According to KIKK radio in Houston, all nine survivors are either in hos- > pitals or in jails.  Inlucding the two who allegedly helped start the firess.  In the FBI briefing, no mention was made of having the fire starters in   custody. >  > > Why could no one else even talk to them?  Why could Koresh's grandmother   not   > > talk to him or even send him a taped message?  Why the total isolation? >  >   Well, it wasn't TOTAL, 100% isolation.  After the lawyer snuck in the first > time, they (the FBI, etc) let him go back inside several times, including, I > think, the day before the final assualt. >   Why not his mother?  Why not the media?  > semper fi, >  > Jammer Jim Miller  > Texas A&M University '89 and '91 >   _______________________________________________________________________________  _ >  I don't speak for UH, which is too bad, because they could use the help.      > "Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing   System." >  "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."     >       ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph 		                -- jmd@handheld.com
In article 1rco2qINN91q@dns1.NMSU.Edu, loki@acca.nmsu.edu (Entropic Destroyer) writes: > >The Denver Post (supposed voice of the supposed Rocky Mountain Empire) >ran the following in the 'Firearms, Supplies' classified heading on  >Friday, 23 April 1993.  If you have an opinion about their new found >wisdom, I am told that the person to speak with is one Mr. Walters, >(303)820-1267. > >	Notice > >	The Denver Post will no longer  >	knowingly accept any advertise- >	ment to buy or sell assault weap- >	ons.  The Denver Post finds that  >	the use of assault weapons poses >	a threat to the health, safety, and >	security of its readers. > >Let 'em know what you think... > >--Dan >-- >Spooksmoke: Revolution, Assasination, Thorium, Cobalt-60, Clintin, CIA, NSA, SHC >  DoD #202 / loki@acca.nmsu.edu / liberty or death / taylordf@ucsu.colorado.edu  >                 Send me something even YOU can't read... >-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- >Version: 2.2 > >mQCNAitfksQAAAEEAKceEjWI9f5KMJyKP0LOgC5dGHRpbMY2xhOo8kpEHMDyuf8a >1BfDQSj53kosTz6HRoshSDzLVuL1/40vPjmMNtFR+vyZ4jvd3rL4iuq2umMmex3M >itf3uLt8Xn/v/QAbsvhcFSHVJVK4Lf6wosuCMO03m2TiX31AI7VB0Uzo4yXjAAUX >tCREYW5pZWwgRiBUYXlsb3IgPExva2lAYWNjYS5ubXN1LmVkdT4= >=S5ib >-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
In article <C5v9Du.D76@acsu.buffalo.edu> v111qheg@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (P.VASILION) writes: >Not necessarily. If the body had been denatured (cooked) or dehydrated due >to the heat, a projectile needs only a minimal kinetic force to penetrate. >In fire aftermaths, bodies tend to fall apart or loose large chunks of >meat with little effort. Medical Examiners tend not to like cleaning up >such scenes.  > >As such, if the body had been suitably cooked, a bullet comming from a >magazine explosion would more than likely have enough force to enter and >thus it would be difficult to determine whether a bullet entered at the >time of death, or much later, unless you were trained to look for the >evidence. Texas Rangers are not pathologists.  > >P.Vasilion  This is quite corect, but a bullet hitting a burned body with little energy will show virtually no deformation, ie a hollow point probably would not expand, an FMJ would be "pristene".  Also the bullets will not be marked with the lands ang grooves of a barrel, because they didn't come out of one.  A good pathologist should be able to notice this right away.  Let us hope that the  ME's that handle these bodies are more competent then the ones who did JFK's body.
In article <C5toMp.24o@news.udel.edu> roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby)   writes:   > And another survivor claims he heard someone shouting "The fire's   started!". > Odd terminology.  That's what one says when you know a fire is planned,   not  > when one occurs by accident. >   It's also what you say when you're waiting for the end to come in a  "fiery apocalypse"...just a thought.  Personally, if the fire was set (by either side), I wonder about the timing.  If Koresh & Co. set the fires, why wait through six hours of wall-bashing and tear-gassing before starting; was there anything "new" that happened just around that point?  Similarly, if the FBI were going to torch the place (and fake it, of course), why wait so long, wouldn't it be more "reasonable" to believe the BD's would set the fire early after the assault began?    The most plausible (to me) explaination is that of an accidental starting of the fire by the tanks.  Among other things, I say that because I was listening to the radio when the fire started and the reporter (watching from a distance, of course) said that it looked like at least one of the tanks had penetrated farther into the building than previously. Specifically, he said that one tank apparently was halfway (half of the tank's lenght) into the building where it previously had only been  penetrating a few feet.
In article <1993Apr5.150031.3123@colorado.edu> ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU (A.J. Teel) writes: > >	Q: Do you think that HIC et al really believe that the laws >that they are trying to get passed are for the good or are they just >lying through their teeth and trying to disarm the populace?  I think that HCI people honestly believe that passing more gun control laws will be in the best interests of public safety.  Why do I think this?  Because I used to buy the HCI line.  During my freshman year (1987), their line made so much sense -- only people who "need" guns should be able to get them, and the people who "need" them are the police and other elites.  Unfortunately for us, this position is highly emotional and not well thought-out.  They never stop to think that HCI's position basically says that the non-elite are incompetents (that's you and me, folks!) and that the Second Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting or other "legitimate" uses (which excludes overthrowing tyrannical governments and defending yourself when the police have proven they can't protect you).  >	We all know that the end result, regardless of the intention, >will be to have a MUCH easier to subdue population for the UN/NWO. >This is definitely a motivation of many in power, but I wonder to >what degree this is planned vs just duped.  Every pro-control person I've talked to is always left  stumped when I simply argue the facts of gun control (that it has yet to be proven to lower crime rates) and weapons terminology (and I'm no expert -- but explaining exactly how an "evil" semiautomatic weapon really works does wonders).  I hvae personally found well-reasoned arguments to be most effective against the emotional pro-control people.  The trick is to get them to realize that the Second Amendment exists not for hunters but for the oppressed and the terrorized.
Editorial - A10, Saturday, April 24, 1993      CRIMESTRIKE HITS TOWN      With the chilling reality of crime at the hands of urban terrorists     that were noted above (a high school student and gang article in the     same column), we welcome into the ranks of those dedicated to re-     moving criminals from the streets the National Rifle Association's     new CrimeStrike project, engineered by Arizona's former chief assist-     ant attorney general Steven J. Twist.      CrimeStrike is working to reverse the disturbing trend of daily     crime.  It is promoting solutions that can be applied nationally,     including tough and honest sentencing of the sort that Arizona is     applying with its Truth in Sentencing law; funding construction and     staffing of appropriate prison space; ensuring that the system is     primed to punish serious youthful offenders; strict attention to the     rights of victims; and citizen and community involvement.      Phoenix will be the home for this national organization.      The Gazette has vigorously opposed many NRA policies on issues of gun     control, and will be resolute in promoting prudent laws that seek     reasonable regulation of firearms.      But CrimeStrike is an appropriate creation, a response to a clear     need for more robust vigilance in holding legislators and judges ac-     countable when it comes to swiftly and surely punishing criminals.      When an organization has an issue, it has an issue, and Crime-     Strike has it - especially when it is willing to direct its dollars     to getting criminals off the street.
When you have no principles, you can't admit that someone else might, and everyone who acts differently from what you expect can only be a nutcase. --  Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
In <C5rynw.Iz8@news.udel.edu> roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes:  >And I suppose the FBI also prevented them from coming out with their  >hands up while national tv cameras watch.  	Would *you* have come out if you knew the only national TV cameras were well over a mile away, and yet the agents with the guns were only a few yards away?  They had contact with a lawyer, so I am inclined to believe they had an idea of what their situation actually was.  This also leads to the conspiracy theory that the lawyer had the BATF pinned on rights violations if the BD's acted as witnesses, hence the arson.  I doubt that one too, but it is still quite clear that leaving a safe place to surrender is a rather stupid thing to do until that place is no longer safe.  >Do you disbelieve everything the FBI says?  	As a matter of course, given how they've allowed no other views to be heard.  I'll reserve judgement until the trial, but so far as the FBI is concerned their statements carry the same amount of weight as photons at rest.  >The BATF is by no means devoid of fault in the handling of this affair. >But to suggest that they may have intentionally started the fire is  >ludicrous.  	Ludicrous, yes.  Possible, yes.  Plausible?  Get the jury.  >If the fire were set by accident or by people outside the compound, I would  >have expected far more cult members to flee the compound.  Or at least come  >out shooting.  	That's what gets me too.  It is likely the cult members were holed up in an enforced place inside the building.  With a decent arson attempt I suspect many of them could have been trapped.  In addition, the introduction of CS gas for several hours would have rendered many of them immobile if not unconscious when their masks quit.  All the props are there, but proving what scene was played is difficult.  The only certainty is that the FBI and BATF have few witnesses against them.
The San Francisco Examiner reports that Clinton has issued instructions to federal law enforcement that they may not kill or injure anyone to  resolve the Waco situation.  So they've built a fence around the compound, and are now seriously considering building up the fence to prison-camp levels, pulling out most of the manpower, and waiting however many months it takes.