waashk/20ng huggingface dataset:
In article <1qvh8n$gf4@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@maple.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah   Friedenberg) writes: > In article <1qvfik$6rf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu   (John W. Redelfs) writes: > |>  > |> Now that Big Brother has rubbed out one minority religion in Waco, who is > |> next?  The Mormons or Jews? >  > Give me a break.  If the Mormons fortified Utah and armed it to the teeth, > and were involved in illegal activity, then they deserve whatever they get. >   Where were you brought up?  In the former USSR?  Is Innocent until proven   guilty by a jury of your peers, NOT Dan Rather, dead in this country?  Seems   so.  Is tax evasion, the only charge brought against the BDs, punishable by   death in this country, now?   > You are making a ludicrous suggestion. >  Not really.  You are a blind idiot.  > |> We used to live in a country where everyone enjoyed the free exercise of > |> their rights to worship and bear arms.  Now we don't. >  > Does that include the right to murder little children?  How about killing > ATF officers?  I do not know much about the gun laws in Texas, but  > Koresh's folks claimed to have grenades, grenade launchers, and rocket > launchers.  I am not sure that the NRA feels that this falls under  > "right to bear arms."  "Not sure", yet you condem them to death for it?  If the BATF had stayed home,   all would be alive, now.  So who murdered who? >   > |> Of course, to Jews and Mormons this is just a broken record.  It has > |> happened before. >  > Please explain.  I do not remember Jews or Mormons (as a group) overtly  > breaking a judicious (a.k.a. non-Nazi) law and being punished for it. >   You have a short memory.  > |> I'll bet all you cult haters are happy now, right?  Just hope you're not   next. >  > Followups to /dev/null   >  > Alternative followups set to talk.religion.misc >   Sleep well, tonite, heartless idiot.  Sleep the sleep of the simple-minded.  I shall weep for my country, myself.  >   > |> ------------ John W. Redelfs, cj195@cleveland.freenet.edu ------------- > |> --------- All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --------- >   > Gedaliah Friedenberg > -=-Department of Mechanical Engineering > -=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science > -=-Michigan State University >  >  >                      I'm short of patience tonite, but rabid dogs deserve and get better treatment   than the BDs got.  Jim -- jmd@handheld.com
Jeremiah: 25:27 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you. 25:28 And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink.
93!04.16 e.v.  After the Glorious Eve of Taxation  Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. The word of Sin is Restriction.   "To all whom it may concern -  ...  "It is known only to a few that there exists an external visible organization of such men and women, who having themselves found the path to real self-knowledge, and who, having travelled the burning sands, are willing to give the benefit of their experience, and to act as spiritual guides to those who are willing to be guided.  "While numberless societies, associations, orders, groups etc. have been founded during the last thirty years in all parts of the civilised world, all following some line of occult study, yet there is but ONE ancient organization of genuine Mystics which shows the seeker after truth a Royal Road to discover The Lost Mysteries of Antiquity, and to the Unveiling of the One Hermetic Truth.  "This organization is known at the present time as the Ancient Order of Oriental Templars.  Ordo Templi Orientis.  Otherwise: The Hermetic Brotherhood of Light.  "It is a Modern School of Magic.  And, like the ancient schools of magic, it derived its knowledge from the East.  This Knowledge was never its possessors.[sic] It was recorded in symbol, parable  and allegory, requiring a Key for its interpretation....  "This key can be placed within the reach of all those who... apply for membership to the Oriental Templars (O.T.O.).   "The O.T.O.... is a body of Initiates in whose hands are concentrated the secret knowledge of all Oriental Orders and of all existing Masonic Degrees....  "The O.T.O., although an Academia Masonica, is not a Masonic Body, so far as the Craft degrees are concerned in the sense in which that expression is usually understood in England, and therefore in no way conflicts with or infringes the just priveleges of the United Lodge of England.  English Master Masons in good standing, by arrangement, on affiliation, are admitted at reduced charges.  Members of the IX degree become part-proprietors of the Estates and Goods of the Order. For further information see the publications of the O.T.O., and the synopsis of the degrees of the O.T.O."  'Constitution of the Ancient Order of Oriental Templars,  Ordo Templi Orientis',   by Frater Superior Merlin Peregrinus X Degree,  Past Grand Master Albert Karl Theodor Reuss   Taken from _Equinox III: 10_,  Edited by Frater Superior Rex Summus Sanctissimus, United States Caliph of Ordo Templi Orientis   Invoke me under my stars.  Love is the law, love under will.  I am I!
John Berryhill, Ph.D. writes  >I don't know who's next, but I hope it's people who pick their noses >while driving.    umm, please don't lump us all together. It's those blatant, fundamentalist pickers that give the rest of us a bad name. Some of us try very hard to be discreet and stay alert.
In article <1r7os6$hil@agate.berkeley.edu> isaackuo@spam.berkeley.edu (Isaac Kuo) writes: >In article <C5wIA1.4Hr@apollo.hp.com> goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes: > >>    BD's were not contemplating suecide, and there is no reason  >>    to believe they committed one. > >No reason?  How about these two: > >1.  Some of the survivors claimed that BD members poured fuel along the >	corridors and set fire to it.  The speed at which the fire spread >	is not inconsistent with this claim.  	This morning on CNN (tues April 27), Texas Cops say Arson is suspected 	because of two falsh points. CNN also stated that  _all_ surviors 	claim the fires are FBI set.  Your argument are made-up, untrue 	and unverified at best. > >2.  There was certainly a fire which killed most of the people in the compound. >	There is a very very good possibility that the FBI did not start this >	fire.  This is a good reason to believe that the BD's did.      The day of the attack the FBI claimed to have seen two BD'ers setting     the fire outside of the compound. Yesterday, the arson squad said two      flash points at the or near the tank entry points      Not good evidence for the FBI hit squad. > >3.  Even if the BD's were not contemplating suicide, it is very possible that >	David Koresh was convinced (and thus convinced the others) that this >	was not suicide.  It was the fulfilment of a profecy of some sort.    is there a difference between thinking that you won't survive a confrontation   with the FBI (parnoia?) and committing suicide?  > >There are three possibilities other than the BD's self destruction: > > >B.  The fire was started by an FBI accident.  This is possible, but it would be >	foolish of us to declare this outright until more evidence can back it. >	Sure, it's possible that the armored vehicle knocked down a lantern >	which started the fire (why was there a lit lantern in the middle of >	the day near the edge of the complex?).  It's anecdotal evidence that >	has been contradicted by other escapees.  	No, claimed by the escapees  not contradicted  	What I'm finding interesting is the conflicting reports. FBI says 	that bodies have been found with bullet wounds and the Texas Cornuers 	(sp) says that they haven't yet found any bullet holes.. > >--  >*Isaac Kuo (isaackuo@math.berkeley.edu)	*       ___
But he said, 	Yea rather, 	blessed are they 	that hear the word of God, 	and keep it.
>For a while I was puzzled by the the concept of Adam and Eve coming to >know good and evil.  This is how I resolved it.  Within God's universe >each action evokes an equal and opposite reaction.  There can be no good >without evil as an opposite.  So the issue is not what you do but to whom >you give your allegiance.  That is why, even in this sinful state, when we >perform an evil act while we are submitted to God He does not place that >sinful act to our account (Rom 4:8) In the same vein you can perform all  >the good deeds in the book, if your life is not under God's control you are  >still sinning (see Rom 14:23).  Now, take a good look at at, an tell me man, there is no Christian Devil? There is, is real, is a virus, a meme, infecting and possessing the good people and keep 'em from becoming human beings with emphasis on the being! Is not a matter of good people an evil people, is all good people see, but some good people vexed of the Christian Devil. An it can't be burn out or lynch out or rape out. Only wise up let I rise up. Christian Devil is real man, how else can you explain five hundred years of history, even more? Can only be explained by Christians invoke Christian Devil.  you keep on knocking but you can't come in, i got to understand you've been living in sin, but walk right in and sit right down, i'll keep on loving you, i'll play the clown, but bend down low, let i tell you what i know yah  i've been 'buked brothers and i've been stoned, woe, woe, woe, now i'm hung by a tree in the the ganging on a few, woe, woe, woe, it doesn't matter who the man is who lives the life he loves, it doesn't matter what the man does or the honest life he loves, i want somewhere, i want somewhere, hallelujah, hallelujah, somewhere to lay my head, woe is me  only ska beat in 'eaven man  stiff necked fools, you think you're cool, to deny me for simplicity, yes you have gone, for so long with your love for vanity now, yes you have got the wrong interpretation mixed up with vain imagination, so take jah sun and jah moon and jah rain and jah stars, and forever yes erase your fantasy, yeah, the lips of the righteous teach many, but fools die for want of wisdom, the rich man's wealth is in his city, the righteous wealth is in his holy place, so take jah sun and jah moon and jah rain and jah stars, and forever yes erase your fantasy, destruction of the poor is in their poverty, destruction of the soul is vanity, yeah, but i don't want to rule ya, i don't want to fool ya, i don't want to school ya, things you, you might never know about, yes you have got the wrong interpretation mixed up with vain, vain imagination, stiff necked fools, you think you're cool, to deny me for, oh simplicity  love to see, when yah move in the rhythm, love to see when you're dancing from within, it gives great joy to feel such sweet togetherness, everyone's doing and they're doing their best, it remind i of the days in jericho, when we trodden down jericho wall, these are the days when we'll trod true babylon, gonna trod until babylon fall  then I saw the angel with the seven seals saying, babylon throne going down
In article <1993Apr22.203851.3081@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, bittrolff@evans.enet.dec.com () writes: |>  |> In article <1993Apr20.143754.643@ra.royalroads.ca>, mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes: |>  |> |>BTW, David Koresh was NOT |> |>Jesus Christ as he claimed. |>  |> How can you tell for sure? Three days haven't passed yet.  |>  Well, where is he?  Another false Messiah shot down in flames.  Matthew 24:4    "Watch out that no one deceives you.  For many will come in my     name, claiming, 'I am the Christ', and will deceive many."  Matthew 24:23    "At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'     or 'There he is!' do not believe it.  For false Christs and      false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles     to deceive even the elect - if that were possible.  See, I have     told you ahead of time."  Do we listen?  Sadly, not all of us do.  Peace be with you, and condolences to the families of those lost at Waco.  Malcolm Lee
I recently read an article in a local paper written by an Islamic   person who was upset with the way Islam has been portrayed by western media.   When a terrorist action takes place in the middle east, it is always played   up as an Islamic Terrorist.  However, when the a Serbian terrorist attacks   the Croations, its not a Christian terrorist, its just a terrorist. 	I have often tried to explain this to some close friends who believe   the press, that Islam is somehow tied to violence.  Often times you hear   things like "They just don't value human life like we do..." and so on.   I was wondering if anyone out there had any suggestions for how we can   change this image, or how I can help my friends to see that this is just    hype.  I would appreciate any serious suggestions or comments via e-mail,   and I'm not interested in hearing about how right the press is.
hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes:   >In article <wcscps.735321331@cunews>, wcscps@superior.carleton.ca (Mike Richardson) writes:  >[Lots of good points re Mormons in the US]  >The founding fathers of the US were hardly great on religious freedoms. At >least one history I have read formed the opinion that they left for the >US not to practice religious freedom but to practice religious intolerance.  Bzzt. Thank you for playing.  You're confusing the puritans/pilgrims with the founding fathers. Difference of ~150 years and a much different culture...   >Phill Hallam-Baker
/(Frank DeCenso) /> />I need to prioritize things in my life, and this board is not all that important />to me.    Of course it is.  It forms a very big part of your self-respect.  You come onto  the board, thinking you're some sort of apologeticist for your faith, and you routinely get roasted over a grill for stupid theories and unfounded assumptions.     /(Frank DeCenso) /This board will have />to wait until (if ever) I can organize my life to fit it in.  I tried dropping />out, but Sieferman coerced me to come back.  He won't this time.  I doubt that Sieferman has anything to do with you dropping out.    It's probably closer to the truth to say that you don't have the cards to  play in this game (because you insist on playing from a losing hand), and you're finally realizing it.  You will lurk on the board, and keep  quiet for a while, looking for an area where you are *certain* that you  are correct, and then we'll see you pop back in again.  Of course, you then will say that you have merely returned because your life is now "in order".
In article <30136@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: >Atoms are not objective.  They aren't even real.  What scientists call >an atom is nothing more than a mathematical model that describes  >certain physical, observable properties of our surroundings.  All >of which is subjective.   > >-jim halat  This deserves framing.  It really does.  "[Atoms] aren't even real."  Tell me then, those atoms we have seen with electron microscopes are atoms now, so what are they?  Figments of our imaginations?  The evidence that atoms are real is overwhelming, but I won't bother with most evidence at the moment.
In article <1r1u5t$595@lm1.oryx.com>, xcpslf@oryx.com (stephen l favor) writes: > : Seems to me Koresh is yet another messenger that got killed > : for the message he carried. (Which says nothing about the  > : character of the messenger.) I reckon we'll have to find out > : the rest the hard way. > :  >  > Koresh was killed because he wanted lots of illegal guns.  I suppose these illegal guns have been found? I suppose he was going to kill a bunch of people with them? --Ray Cote
In article <1993Apr15.225657.17804@rambo.atlanta.dg.com> wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:   (Deletion) > >       Since you have referred to the Messiah, I assume you are referring >        to the New Testament.  Please detail your complaints or e-mail if >        you don't want to post.  First-century Greek is well-known and >        well-understood.  Have you considered Josephus, the Jewish Historian, >        who also wrote of Jesus?  In addition, the four gospel accounts >        are very much in harmony. >   Since this drivel is also crossposted to alt.atheism, how about reading the alt.atheism FAQ? The Josephus quote is concidered to be a fake even by Christian historians, and the four gospels contradict each other in important points.
In article <1r4b59$7hg@aurora.engr.LaTech.edu>, ray@engr.LaTech.edu (Bill Ray) writes: ********NOTE: FOLLOWUPS go to alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,talk.origins!  [deleted] > If I make a statement, "That God exists, loves me, etc." but in no way > insist that you believe it, does that place a burden of proof upon me. > If you insist that God doesn't exist, does that place a burden of proof  > upon you?  I give no proofs, I only give testimony to my beliefs.  I will > respond to proofs that you attempt to disprove my beliefs.  If you say X statement and give it the authority of fact, I will respond by asking you why. You aren't obligated to say anything, but if your intent is to convince me that X statement is true, then yes, the burden of proof is upon you.   If you are merely giving testimony to your beliefs, then you are an egotist. Why would I care?  To surmise, the burden of proof is upon you if you wish us to believe that what you say is true.
(st) Stephen Tice  (km) Ken McVay   (st)Seems to me Koresh is yet another messenger that got killed (st)for the message he carried. (Which says nothing about the   (km)Seems to be, barring evidence to the contrary, that Koresh was simply (km)another deranged fanatic who thought it neccessary to take a whole bunch of (km)folks with him, children and all, to satisfy his delusional mania. Jim (km)Jones, circa 1993.  I think there's plenty of evidence to the contrary - six "rescued" Davidians consistantly recounted that the Federal tank knocked over a barrel of propane. These guys haven't exactly been spending time together, plotting an elaborate and consistent story. It would be contradictory for Koresh to go for "mass suicide" - remember that Koresh's death was the opening of the sixth seal - the signal that Armageddon had begun. His army (the people in the compound) would then fight the powers of evil and win, ending in the Rapture. The fire wiped out his army. I read earlier that Koresh was planning to walk out of the compound  and blow himself up with a grenade - that would jibe better with his teachings.  (st)In the mean time, we sure learned a lot about evil and corruption. (st)Are you surprised things have gotten that rotten?  (km)Nope - fruitcakes like Koresh have been demonstrating such evil corruption (km)for centuries.  I'd think you'd be the last one to support gassing people and  burning them to death for their religious beliefs. Corrupt? Evil? I don't know. We'll never know. And when you start calling people  fruitcakes about their religious beliefs, that's dehumanizing people. We saw what happened when many Germans started believing that Jews were subhuman.  In one neat stroke, they destroyed all the evidence that could have  pointed to wrongdoing. And killed all the witnesses, including 12 children whose last view of life was choking and pain, followed by burning them alive.  I am extremely saddened that this tragedy occurred. I'm furious that they used my money to do it.
brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615) writes: > >Be warned, it is not my job to convert you.  That is the job of >the Holy Spirit.  And I, frankly, make a lousy one.  I am only >here to testify.  Your conversion is between you and God.  I am >"out of the loop".  If you decide to follow Jesus, of which I >indeed would be estatic, then all the glory be to God.  I've asked your god several times with all my heart to come to me.  I really wish I could believe in him, 'cos no matter how much confidence I build up on my own, the universe *is* a big place, and it would be so nice to know I have someone watching over me in it...  I've gone into this with an open mind.  I've layed my beliefs aside from time to time when I've had doubt, and I've prayed to see what good that would do.  I don't see what more I can do to open myself to your god, short of just deciding to believe for no good reason.  And if I decide to believe for no good reason, why not believe in some other god?  Zeus seems like a pretty cool candidate...  All I know is that in all my searching, even though I've set aside my pride and decided that I want to know the truth no matter how difficult it may be to accept, I have never had any encounter with any deity, Christian or otherwise.  Please tell me what more I can do while still remaining true to myself.
Those things, 	which ye have both learned, and received, 	and heard, and seen in me, 	do: 	and the God of peace shall be with you.
Andrew Bulhak (ins559n@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote: : Jim Kasprzak (kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu) wrote: : : In article <=4z5wqc@rpi.edu>, weinss@rs6101.ecs.rpi.edu (Stephen Andrew Weinstein) writes: : :  So what is Kibology? Chopped liver? : Kibo Himself summed it up by saying "Kibology is not just a religion, it is : also a candy mint ... and a floor wax." I personally think that it is more : like Spam Clear. : :
In article <1r477q$1vk@sbctri.sbc.com>, tph@susie.sbc.com (Timothy P. Henrion) writes: > In article <1993Apr21.093914.1@woods.ulowell.edu> cotera@woods.ulowell.edu writes: >>I assume you have evidence that he was responsible for the deaths? >  > Only my common sense.  The fire was caused by either Koresh and his > followers or by the FBI/ATF/CIA/KGB/and maybe the Harper Valley PTA.  Since > you are throwing around the evidence arguement, I'll throw it back.  Can > you prove any government agency did it?  (Please don't resort to "they  > covered it up so that proves they did it" or any wild theories about how > the government agencies intentionally started the fire.  The key words > are proof and evidence.) > proves they did it"  No, which is why I want an investigation.     > Please explain how Koresh was defending himself from those children who > burned.    Who ever said he was? What is obvious is that he was defending himself, and his followers, from the government.  Whether you think he was right or wrong in this is another question.  If he was right, then he had the moral right to kill those kgBATF agents. --Ray Cote
In article <JOSHUA.93Apr19183833@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>, joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) wrote: >  >  > In article <Pegasus-150493132018@fp1-dialin-4.uoregon.edu>  > Pegasus@aaa.uoregon.edu (LaurieEWBrandt) writes: >  LEWB>> Lets add to those percentages 13-15% for the Orphaic docterians brought LEWB>>to the group by Paul/Saul who was a high ranking initiate. On the LEWB>>development of Orphaic Mysteries, see Jane Harrisons .Prolegomena to the LEWB>>study of Greek religion. Cambridge U Press 1922. and you can easly draw LEWB>>your own conclusions.   josh> perhaps you can quote just a bit of her argument?
I must correct the following in my previous posting:   : If you are trying to be objective, you must also recognise that :  : 1) the gospels are not independent sources, on the contrary, they : share much of the same material  I should have been a bit more careful here - the gospels not only tell us about the same events, they usually use the same wordings. Textual analyses show that Matthew and Luke probably had a common source, which may have influenced Mark, too.  Petri