waashk/20ng huggingface dataset:
Subject: RE: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians From: f54oguocha Date: 13 MAY 93 02:28:53 GMT In article <13MAY93.02285380@edison.usask.ca> , f54oguocha@edison.usask.ca writes: >In a previous article, josip@eng.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric) wrote: >>  >>Actually, just after the FIRST world war, many Muslims were killed by Serbs. >>Under Serbian-led regime between the two world wars, many Croats were >>also killed (especially during the dictatorship introduced on Jan. 6, 1929). >> >Josip, > >please, don't be offended at this question: Who are the "Muslims" in the >Bosnian context? i know that a moslem/muslim is a believer in Islam. Islam  >is a religion and it is practised in many parts of the world. But it is not >, yes definitely not, an ethinic group. ok! so, these Bosnian Muslims, who >are they? to which ethnic group do they belong? what language(s) do they >speak? do they have a different language from that of the Serbs or Croats?  >the way the western press use the word 'muslim' in this Bosnian debacle has  >kept me wondering when the meaning of muslim/moslem i knew from childhood was  >changed in the dictionary. this is just a question. no flames intended! > >oguocha   You've asked a crucial question that underlies much of the genocide.  Bosnian Muslims are slavic in ethnicity. They speak Serbo-Croatian. But there is a Christo-Slavic ideology whereby all true slavs are Christian and anyone who converted to Islam thereby must have changed ethnicity by changing religion.  See the poems of Ngegos or the novels of Ivo Andric who brilliantly displays these attitudes on the part of what he calls "the people" (i.e. Christian slavs).  For this reason, the war-criminals call all the Bosnian Muslims "Turks" even though they are not ethnically Turk and do not speak Turkish as their first language.  For this reason, what is actually a genocide labeled against those who are ethnically identical but religiously "other" is called, paradoxically, "ethnic cleansing" rather than "religious cleansing."  Thus, while a war rages between Serbs and Croats as a continuation of WWII, and older agenda, the annihilation of Islam and Muslims from Bosnian, is being carried out under the cover of the Serbo-Croat war.  Regards,  Mike. >
cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research) writes:  >From: Center for Policy Research <cpr> >Subject: Ten questions about Israel  >I would be thankful if any of you who live in Israel could help to >provide > accurate answers to the following specific questions. These are >indeed provocative questions but they are asked time and again by >people around me.  [ ... questions omitted ... ]  >Elias Davidsson Iceland email:   elias@ismennt.is  Funny you should mention it, but I've heard these questions time and again, also.  Why just the other day, a couple neo-Nazis by UCLA were passing out literature like this. Cheers, Steve
How many of you readers know anything about Jews living in the Arab countries?  How many of you know if Jews still live in these countries?  How many of you know what the circumstances of Arabic Jews leaving their homelands were?  Just curious.
In article <1483500348@igc.apc.org>, cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research) writes: |>  |> From: Center for Policy Research <cpr> |> Subject: Unconventional peace proposal |>  |>  |> A unconventional proposal for peace in the Middle-East. |> ---------------------------------------------------------- by |> 			  Elias Davidsson  |>  |> 1.      A Fund should be established which would disburse grants |> for each child born to a couple where one partner is Israeli-Jew |> and the other Palestinian-Arab. |>  |> 2.      To be entitled for a grant, a couple will have to prove |> that one of the partners possesses or is entitled to Israeli |> citizenship under the Law of Return and the other partner, |> although born in areas under current Isreali control, is not |> entitled to such citizenship under the Law of Return. |>  |> 3.      For the first child, the grant will amount to $18.000. For |> the second the third child, $12.000 for each child. For each |> subsequent child, the grant will amount to $6.000 for each child. ...  |> I would be thankful for critical comments to the above proposal as |> well for any dissemination of this proposal for meaningful |> discussion and enrichment. |>  |> Elias Davidsson Post Box 1760 121 Reykjavik, ICELAND  Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned, but have you heard about something called Love? It used to play some role in people's considerations for getting married. Of course I know some people who married  fictitiously in order to get a green card, but making a common child for 18,000$? The power of AA is limited. Your proposal is indeed unconventional.
|>      henrik@quayle.kpc.com writes:   |>	The Armenians in Nagarno-Karabagh are simply DEFENDING their RIGHTS |>        to keep their homeland and it is the AZERIS that are INVADING their  |>        territorium... 	  	Homeland? First Nagarno-Karabagh was Armenians homeland today 	Fizuli, Lacin and several villages (in Azerbadjan) 	are their homeland. Can't you see the 	the  "Great Armenia" dream in this? With facist methods like 	killing, raping and bombing villages. The last move was the  	blast of a truck with 60 kurdish refugees, trying to 	escape the from Lacin, a city that was "given" to the Kurds 	by the Armenians.    |>       However, I hope that the Armenians WILL force a TURKISH airplane  |>       to LAND for purposes of SEARCHING for ARMS similar to the one |>       that happened last SUMMER. Turkey searched an AMERICAN plane |>       (carrying humanitarian aid) bound to ARMENIA. |>  	Don't speak about things you don't know: 8 American Cargo planes 	were heading to Armenia. When the Turkish authorities 	announced that they were going to search these cargo  	planes 3 of these planes returned to it's base in Germany. 	5 of these planes were searched in Turkey. The content of 	of the other 3 planes? Not hard to guess, is it? It was sure not 	humanitarian aid.....  	Search Turkish planes? You don't know what you are talking about. 	Turkey's government has announced that it's giving weapons 	to Azerbadjan since Armenia started to attack Azerbadjan 	it self, not the Karabag province. So why search a plane for weapons 	since it's content is announced to be weapons?
In <1993Apr5.211146.3662@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) writes:  >I dunno, Warren.  Just the other day I heard a rumor that "Serdar Argic" >(aka Hasan Mutlu and Ahmed Cosar and ZUMABOT) is not really a Turk at all, >but in fact is an Armenian who is attempting to make any discussion of the >massacres in Armenia of Turks so noise-laden as to make serious discussion >impossible, thereby cloaking the historical record with a tremendous cloud >of confusion.    But what is Hasan B. Multu's middle name?  I'm not sure, but I heard it was "Bibo".  I also seem to recall that "Argic" is Azari for "bites the wax Macedonian".  We don't have a mail address, but how about finding a snail address? Then instead of quashing Shergold rumors, we could just redirect them - Ahmed Cosar is a seven year old Greek boy with an incurable case of crossposting.  His wish is to get into the Usenet Book of World Records for having the highest noise to signal ratio.
In a previous article, cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research) says:  >today ?  Finally, if Israel wants peace, why can't it declare what >it considers its legitimate and secure borders, which might be a >base for negotiations? Having all the above facts in mind, one >cannot blame Arab countries to fear Israeli expansionism, as a >number of wars have proved (1948, 1956, 1967, 1982).  Oh yeah, Israel was really ready to "expand its borders" on the holiest day of the year (Yom Kippur) when the Arabs attacked in 1973.  Oh wait, you chose to omit that war...perhaps because it 100% supports the exact  OPPOSITE to the point you are trying to make?  I don't think that it's because it was the war that hit Israel the hardest.  Also, in 1967 it was Egypt, not Israel who kicked out the UN force.  In 1948 it was the Arabs who refused to accept the existance of Israel BASED ON THE BORDERS SET BY THE UNITED NATIONS.  In 1956, Egypt closed off the Red Sea to Israeli shipping, a clear antagonistic act.  And in 1982 the attack was a response to years of constant shelling by terrorist organizations from the Golan Heights.  Children were being murdered all the time by terrorists and Israel finally retaliated.  Nowhere do I see a war that Israel started so that  the borders could be expanded.      Steve --
ac = In <9304202017@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) pl = linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Peter van der Linden)  pl: 1.  So, did the Turks kill the Armenians?  ac: So, did the Jews kill the Germans?  ac: You even make Armenians laugh.  ac: "An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the ac: systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of  ac: the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at  ac: least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The  ac: memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and  ac: eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in ac: 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."  Typical Mutlu.  PvdL asks if X happened, the response is that Y happened.  Even if we grant that the Armenians *did* do what Cosar accuses them of doing, this has no bearing on whether the Turks did what they are accused of.  While I can understand how an AI could be this stupid, I can't understand how a human could be such a moron as to either let such an AI run amok or to compose such pointless messages himself.  I do not expect any followup to this article from Argic to do anything to alleviate my puzzlement.  But maybe I'll see a new line from his list of insults.
In article <20APR93.23565659.0109@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, B8HA000 <B8HA@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> writes: |> In Re:Syria's Expansion, the author writes that the UN thought |> Zionism was Racism and that they were wrong.  They were correct |> the first time, Zionism is Racism and thankfully, the McGill Daily |> (the student newspaper at McGill) was proud enough to print an article |> saying so.  If you want a copy, send me mail.  If you want info claiming that blacks were brought to earth 60 trillion years ago by Aliens from the plante Shabazz, I can send you literature from the Nation of Islam (Farrakhan's group) who believe this.  If you want info claiming that the Holocaust never happened, I can send you info from IHR (Institute for Historical Review - David Irving's group), or just read Dan Gannon's posts on alt.revisionism.  I just wanted to put Steve's post in with the company that it deserves.  |> Steve
eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  writes: > ab4z@Virginia.EDU ("Andi Beyer") writes: >  > >I think the Israeli press might be a tad bit biased in > >reporting the events. I doubt the Propaganda machine of Goering > >reported accurately on what was happening in Germany. It is > >interesting that you are basing the truth on Israeli propaganda. >  > If you consider Israeli reporting of events in Israel to be propoganda, then  > consider the Washington Post's handling of American events to be propoganda > too.  What makes the Israeli press inherently biased in your opinion?  I > wouldn't compare it to Nazi propoganda either.  Unless you want to provide > some evidence of Israeli inaccuracies or parallels to Nazism, I suggest you  > keep your mouth shut.  I'm sick and tired of all you anti-semites comparing > Israel to the Nazis (and yes, in my opinion, if you compare Israel to the Nazis > you are an anti-semite because you know damn well it isn't true and you are > just trying to discredit Israel). >  > Ed. >  You know ed,...  You're right!  Andi shouldn't be comparing Israel to the Nazis.  The Israelis are much worse than the Nazis ever were anyway.  The Nazis did a lot of good for Germany, and they would have succeeded if it weren't for the damn Jews.  The Holocaust never happened anyway.  Ample evidence given by George Schafer at Harvard, Dept. of History, and even by Randolph Higgins at NYU, have shown that the Holocaust was just a semitic conspiracy created to obtain sympathy to piush for the creation of Israel.
In article <1993May12.215649.17873@walter.bellcore.com> cza@troy.cc.bellcore.com (C. Akgun) writes: >In article <1993May12.205519.1480@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: >> >>It is easy for Sen. Biden to say that when there are no US troops in >>Zepa or Srebinica or Sarejevo... >> >>The existing UN policy may certaining be wrong, but the US wants >>to dictate policy, and make Europe responsible for the consequences >>of that policy... >> >>...Bosnia is a big enough problem for the US to preach about what >>other countries should be doing with their forces...but its forces >>are safely tucked away at home in the US. >> >Look nobody asked those countries about their UN forces >to be on the ground.  They can take their forces which are  Well Bosnia and the US did...the UN cannot impose blue berets on a country, and the US has voted for the current policy and mandate in the Security Council...and could have said no if it wanted to... it has a veto.  Clinton has not demanded the removal of the UN forces...because he want to have his cake and eat it too...he wants to dictate policy but not be responsible for the policy he wants to dictate.  If Clinton asks for the blue berets to leave, then he Bill Clinton becomes responsible for what happens...him and Sen. Biden and their friends who want to fight the war from 10,000 ft...as long as the blue berets are there Clinton can use Europe as a scapegoat for American indecisiveness.  I fully admit that the current UN policy approved by all the major powers including the US may be wrong or inappropriate...but these "back-seat drivers" in the US like Clinton and Biden are just a bunch of hypocrites looking for an gimmick to look like they are doing  something to assuage their own consciences and those who are demanding action or leadership...and most European leaders are smart enough to know the difference between American hot air and American leadership.  >I think Senator Biden said it all what has to be said on this issue. >Europe is a sad place to criticize human rights in anywhere in this  >world.  Like Biden said, they are the bigots when it comes to  >cultural difference and minorty closer to their home.  Well, if Biden is so outraged...why the hell doesn't he do something about it...where is his resolution in the US Senate for a declaration of war or the commitment of US forces and troops.  Biden is just full of hot air.
I caught the tail end of a piece on NPR (National Public Radio) about Chomsky.  Apparently there is a new documentary about him and his concepts on the propagandist news media of the West, or some such. The funny thing is that NPR painted Chomsky and the documentary in such a positive light, or at least ended the report in a positive way. The documentary is just now showing in a few cities in the US, and will open in more cities in June.  Sorry, forgot the title.
dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes:  >On the 78th Commemorative Anniversary of the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, >we remember those whose only crime was to be Armenian in the shadow of an  >emerging Turkish proto-fascist state. In their names we demand justice.  >In April 1915, the Turkish government began a systematically executed  >de-population of the eastern Anatolian homeland of the Armenians through a  >genocidal extermination. This genocide was to insure that Turks exclusively >ruled over the geographic area today called the Republic of Turkey. The  >result: 1.5 million murdered, 30 billion dollars of Armenian property stolen >and plundered. This genocide ended nearly 3,000 years of Armenian civilization >on those lands. Today, the Turkish government continues to scrape clean any >vestige of a prior Armenian existence on those lands. Today's Turkish >governmental policy is to re-write the history of the era, to manufacture >distortion and generate excuses for their genocide of the Armenian people. In  >the face of refutation ad nauseam, the Turkish Historical Society and cronies  >shamelessly continue to deny that any such genocide occurred. This policy  >merely demonstrates that in the modern era, genocide is an effective state  >policy when it remains un-redressed and un-punished. A crime unpunished is a  >crime encouraged. Adolf Hitler took this cue less than 25 years after the  >successful genocide of the Armenians.  [ ... ]  >ARMENIANS DEMAND JUSTICE                              ERMENILER ADALET ISTIYOR  >--  >David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org   | "Armenia has not learned a lesson in >S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies |  Anatolia and has forgotten the  >P.O. Box 382761                      |  punishment inflicted on it."  4/14/93 >Cambridge, MA 02238                  |   -- Late Turkish President Turgut Ozal  To which I say: Hear, hear.  Motion seconded.  Hovig
In article <1483500355@igc.apc.org> cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research) writes:  >The first point to note regarding the appropriation of the history >of the Holocaust by Zionist propaganda is that Zionism without >anti-semitism is impossible. Zionism agrees with the basic tenet >of anti-Semitism, namely that Jews cannot live with non- Jews.  That's why the Zionists decided that Zion must be Gentile-rein. What?!  They didn't?!  You mean to tell me that the early Zionists actually granted CITIZENSHIP in the Jewish state to Christian and Muslim people, too?    It seems, Elias, that your "first point to note" is wrong, so the rest of your posting isn't worth much, either.  Ta ta...
In article <1993Apr14.225500.15812@bnr.ca> zbib@bnr.ca writes:  >Now, if actions of the lebanese resistance help send the >Isrealis packing, I'm all for it. If you are really >concerned about bloodshed, a little self criticism could do >you a great favor.  	One of these days you'll learn that the way to stop Israel from fighting back is to stop attacking.  If there were no attacks in the security zone for a year because the Lebanese army could maintain the peace, then Lebanon would be in much better shape.  	Tell me something, though.  Why do Syrian troops not get attacked?  Aren't they occupying Lebanon?  	Israel has repeatedly stated that it will leave on two conditions.  One is a demonstration that the Lebanese army can keep the peace.  The second is that the Syrians pull out as well.  Adam Adam Shostack 				       adam@das.harvard.edu
I think there are some generally accepted criteria according to which one can evaluate whether certain policies or practices constitute racial discrimination. These criteria are to be found for example in the 1.  International Convention for Abolition of All Forms of Racial     Discrimination (ratified by most countries) 2.   The International Covenant of Political and Civil Rights 3.   The Human Rights Charter 4.   The European Convention of Human Rights  If one reads carefully how racial discrimination is defined in these legally binding instruments, and does not resort to sophistry, it is obvious that the State of Israel is guilty of racial discrimination.   The people suffering the most extreme form of racial discriminatnion by the Zionist regime are the Palestinian refugees, some of whom live under Israeli military control and others who live in the diaspora.  They are not entitled to return to their homeland for the sole reason that they are not Jews. International law does not include any provisions which permits such denial of rights, under any circumstance. Israel's actions of denial are totally illegal and immoral. By allowing the return of the refugees and permitting them to settle in Tel in any area  of the State of Israel, the State would finally gain its legitimaty under international law and could be justified in asking to be recognized. It would facilitate the peaceful integration of Israel into the Middle-east and constitute the best guarantee for permanent Jewish presence - in the area. Any attempt to create a separation, formal and human, between the Israeli Jewish and Palestinian Arab communities, is fraught with genociadal implications. I hope that U.S. Jews, who sincerely wish that peace prevail in Israel/Palestine, will finally realize this fact.  Elias Davidsson
Who the hell is this guy David Davidian. I think he talks too much..   Yo , DAVID you would better shut the f... up.. O.K ?? I don't like   your attitute. You are full of lies and shit. Didn't you hear the   saying "DON'T MESS WITH A TURC!!"...  See ya in hell..  Timucin.
I always believed the statement 'those who do not know their history are condemned to repeat it (Will Durant ?), but I am beginning to believe the opposite is true.  Here in t.p.m and in other newsgroups it seems that history is mainly remembered to foment hatred or to be used as a club. In the history of my own people there are ample acts of shame, both done by my people and done to my people. Since I was not party to any of those acts, I refuse to accept blame for the evil acts that my ancestors committed, nor do I direct hatred toward the descendants of those who committed evil acts against my ancestors.  Will all of this discussion rebuild a single mosque? Will it rebuild the Temple? Somehow I doubt that it will.  A post in another group, on the Bosnian war, asked us all to love each other, that love would conquer hate. Sadly, I remember a TV interview with a young woman in Sarajevo (sp?) who was as I remember, a former olympic calibre contestant in the rifle shoot. She was now trying to pick-off Serbian snipers. During the communist years she had married a Serb, who was now fighting against her people. So it seems that hate will conquer love.  Is there an odd chance that we might all forget past wrongs and try and see how we might all live together? It's a damn small planet, which we have come very close to turning into a radioactive ball, glowing softly in space. We seem to have been spared that prospect, shall we now bathe it in each other's blood?  Shalom, Salam, and Peace