regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes: : In article <1993Mar30.001428.7648@pony.Ingres.COM> dan@Ingres.COM (a Rose arose) writes: :  : Seriously, though, Griffen didn't save the lives of children, and he did : destroy the life of a man, so on the most superficial of levels, he's scum. :   I almost agree, but Griffen is not scum.  Scum has no guilt or freedom to choose anything.  Griffen does.  God did not make scum when he made Griffen. He made a precious person and this person chose to do wrong.  The same goes for Dr. Gunn.  : But if you are to examine it more closely, Griffen would have preferred that : these children were born -- yet AFTER their birth, did Griffen have any  : assistance to offer them?  Did Griffen intend to support them, educate them, : raise them up to be useful citizens?  Did he have any intent whatsoever : to help these children after birth? :   Here's the real problem.  Americans have become so insensitive to the needs of others and so completely wrapped up in themselves that they cannot see straight or think clearly enough to make even the slightest and most obvious moral decisions based on reality.  If a man abandons a woman to care for their child on her own, he is not considered to be a very respectable or decent man by anyone.  This man has fled his responsibility, has behaved like a lazy coward, and has turned away from his responsibility to his wife and child.  However, if a woman decides to kill her unborn child to release her burden, she is not thought of in the same way.  When the man abandons, the woman suffers but the child is free to grow up and live a happy and normal life. When the woman abandons, the child is diced or killed with saline or vacuumed out, and the man has no choice, and the man sometimes suffers so badly that he wishes he could trade places with his child.  Ths root of this whole problem is selfishness--the arrogance that says, "My feelings and desires are supreme and your well being is not worth dung." And when you come down to it, this is the substance of what hell is made of. It's the reason a loving God can throw selfish people to the devil and his demons for all of eternity.  Let any one of us unrepentant into heaven, and we'll ruin it the first chance we get.  : Now, I don't really know the answer to these questions, but I've got a real : good guess. :   And, it's probably right.  : And I wouldn't call *that* 'benevolent', either. :   It is a move in the right direction.  As it is now, we don't see our responsibility because we kill it and get it out of sight.  The media backs us completely.  Real responsibility does not sell.  The only "responsibility" that sells in the marketplace is that which is just enough to make us "feel responsible" without showing anything that might show us our own true irresponsibility.  We want to "feel" like good people, but we want nothing with *being* good people.  Just give me the freedom to say "I'm good", and the rest of the world can burn. Rape and kill my children and throw my parents to the places where poor old folks rot until they're dead.  I'll hate my brother and sister if I wish and I'll cheat on my wife or husband.  Screw the government, because it screws me, and don't talk to me about giving to the church because church people are all a bunch of money grubbing hypocrites. But, I'm a good person.  At least I admit what I do.  At least I love myself and we all know that is the greatest love in the world--not that a man lay down his life for his brother...That sounds too "christian".  At the root, this is the substance of what hell is made of.  We've become a self indulgant, backslidden society no longer responsible to our children, to our parents, to our families, to our government, or to our God.  This is the root behind justification of every evil, of every corruption in government, of every slanderous remark, of every lie, and of every murder.  Society cannot continue to live like this long.  it will have to destroy itsself soon, and perhaps in the end, that will be the biggest blessing this world can hope to see.  Why do people see so much evil in trying to turn this situation around?  -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 	"I deplore the horrible crime of child murder... 	 We want prevention, not merely punishment. 	 We must reach the root of the evil... 	 It is practiced by those whose inmost souls revolt 	 from the dreadful deed... 	 No mater what the motive, love of ease, 		or a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent, 		the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed... 	 but oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her 		to the desperation which impelled her to the crime."