waashk/20ng huggingface dataset:
In article <93109.13404334AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET>, <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> writes: > CNN is reporting as I write this that the ATF has ignited all > the buildings of the Branch Dividian ranch near Waco, TX. The > lies from ATF say "holes were made in the walls and 'non-lethal' tear > gas pumped in". A few minutes after this started the whole thing went up. > ALL buildings are aflame. NO ONE HAS ESCAPED. I think it obvious that > the ATF used armored flame-thrower vehicles to pump in unlit > napalm, then let the wood stove inside ignite it.  Well, actually, the Davidians (Koreshians?) started the fire themselves,  the last I heard ( around 15:00 EST). Eight people ran out into the feilds surrounding the compound. All were captured and two admitted to setting the  fire. I don't buy your napalm theory at all (although it would have made a  great commercial for my .sig). Why the hell would they have a wood stove burning on such a warm day?  Flame throwers use liquid petroleum, napalm  is more of a gel. Now to further dispute your theory, the diluted CS gas was inserted around 06:00 if I understood correctly. The place didn't start burning until around 10:00 or 11:00.   > THIS IS MURDER! ATF MURDERERS!  BUTCHERS!! > THIS IS GENOCIDAL MASS-SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE, INCLUDING CHILDREN! > I have predicted this from the start, but God, it sickens me to see > it happen. I had hoped I was wrong. I had hoped that there was > still some shred of the America I grew up with, and loved, left > alive. I was wrong. The Nazis have won.   Calm down kid. Vernon (Koresh's real name) said himself that he would not leave that compound alive. The inhabitants thereof had accepted the fact that they  may very well have to kill themselves before it was all over.  > I REPEAT, AS OF THIS TIME THERE ARE **NO  SURVIVORS**!  There are at least eight survivors. A caller on Rush Limbaugh today suggested that the rest may even be hiding in underground bunkers. That's not such a wild idea considering their weaponry and resolve.   > God help us all. > PLEASE CROSSPOST -- DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THE SLAUGHTER OF THE  > CHILDREN! > W. K. Gorman - an American in tears.  Sheesh! Get over it. I haven't heard (read) such ranting since the Hindenberg burned. This should have ended 50 days ago. I'm glad my tax dollars have finally stopped working to pay a bunch of guys to stand around and give press conferences. Now they can get back to more important things, like catching cigarrette smugglers.
In article <1993Apr16.010235.14225@mtu.edu>, cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter) writes... >In article <C5Bu9M.2K7@ulowell.ulowell.edu> >jrutledg@cs.ulowell.edu (John Lawrence Rutledge) wrote: >  >> In article <1q96tpINNpcn@gap.caltech.edu> arc@cco.caltech.edu >> (Aaron Ray Clements) writes:>> >The Second Amendment is a guarantee of the right to bear arms.  Clearly >> >and unequivocally, without infringement.     I saw this nifty drawn out posting and I thought I might give the two of you    a little help with your problem. As you both know what you posted,(and this     foolish thing gave me so much shit last time I tried to post) I took the     liberty of deleting all but the header and a single quote. I hope you don't    mind.     As written the second ammendment states rather clearly for anyone who can    read the following:   "  A well regulated militia, being necessarry to the security of a free state,    the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    What is regulated? Regulated means "controlled"! How about security?   Well hey! That would be along the lines of being and feeling safe wouldn't   it? Wow! We have a concept forming here don't we!? Now what have we left?   "the right of the people people people people people people people (sorry   got kinda hungup there) shall NOT be infringed" Oops! Backup there,hmmm..   "infringed"....That'd be like Interfered with, altered, changed or   watered down in any way,shape or form! So! What we have here in it's big old   long winded version would be.    " A well controlled militia, being necessary to the secure/safe feeling of   state, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be Fucked   with in any way shape or form by some happy ass good for nothing in    some piddly government building who wants to run my life in the pursuit of   his happiness!" The item is clear and concise in it's present form my young    friend! It does not need my clarification or that of any other. THIS IS   ONLY AMMENDMENT which guarantees the continued existence of the others.   It's whole purpose is to give people recourse against the military machine   of a government which fails to properly represent it's creators!US!  >    James Madison, Federalist Paper 41 (regarding the "General >    Welfare" clause): "Nothing is more natural nor common than first >    to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a >    recital of particulars."   ANY REPLIES OR COMMENTS CAN BE SENT TOO KANE.    DJH4484@RIGEL.TAMU.EDU  "No representative government need fear it's armed citizens"  "Death to Tyrants!"
I made a few phone calls today, and found that if you call the Bill Room at the Sacramento State Capitol, you may order free of charge any bills that are currently being pushed.  I was told that they will only fill an order of five bills per phone call, but when I asked kindly and told the nice lady that it was very important, she filled my order for ten.  California State Bill Room 916-445-2323  Subject:  Re: Need Senate Bill numbers and House Resolution numbers   Sorry I forgot to include this in my previous letter but we also have to worry about State bills.  These are the ones that I am currently aware of:  SB 292 SB 247 SB 67 SB 89 SB 180  AB 117 AB 155 AB 166 AB 482 AB 501  My thanks to Bob Hale for providing the bill numbers!  /------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Peter D. Nesbitt |   Air Traffic Controller   | PNESBITT@MCIMAIL.COM   | |                  |     Oakland Bay TRACON     |                        | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| |  CBR600F2 Pilot  |     NRA Member CCX1380F    | S&W .41 Magnum Carrier | \------------------------------------------------------------------------/
In article <1r2dqq$5of@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> mikey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Strider) writes: >irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes: >:cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: >:>mfrhein@wpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Frederick Rhein) writes: >:>> >:Ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves?  Very popular. >:Electric stoves outside metro-areas especially. > >Hey, Einstein, ever tried to use an electric stove or microwave WITHOUT >ELECTRICITY?  It's been shut off for weeks now, courtesy of your local FBI >assault squad.  Calm down.  It is not as if I tweaked the fount of the flame wars or anything (guns, anything to do with them).
In article <C59BIE.4zL@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>, papresco@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes: |> In article <1993Apr8.193321.12753@anasazi.com> john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore) writes: |>  |> >They were driving down a heavily used street in the middle of the day, |> >when a car with 5 young black males pulled up behind them, and one |> >of the occupants fired 8 9mm rounds into the rear of their truck. Both |> >the man and his fiancee pulled their pistols and returned fire, driving |> >off the attackers. Their child suffered a flesh wound to his arm, and |> >the parents sustained grazes from the incident. |>  |> What a beautiful country you people have built for yourselves.  Enjoy it. ==========================================================================   Yes, we do have a beautiful country. And I enjoy it.  Most of all, I   enjoy the thought that I have the means and can exercise my rights   to defend me and mine.      And I want to thank all of you good folks, like Prescod, who remind me   of what I have.  Along this line, I watched a documentary on one of the   Nazi concentration camps.  Stacks and stacks of bodies.  There were scenes   of Hitler speechifying, and what struck me, was the reverence and adoration   on the faces of the people in the crowds.  I guess they were happy that   Hitler had implemented full gun control and was taking care of the Jewish   problem all at the same time.
From article <1r19l9$7dv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, by oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham): > What happened in Waco is not the fault of the BATF. If they would of > had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the > compound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened.  They did have the proper equipment.  The problem is that they went about things the wrong way.  The ATF should have served the warrant in a peacable manner instead of going in there like a bunch of Rambos with guns blazing.  I'm not trying to excuse what David Koresh did.  I'm just saying that the ATF (henceforth to be known as the cigarette cops :-) went about the "raid" in an improper manner.  > The BATF needs more people, better weapons and more armored > transports. When they meet hostile fire they should be able to use > more force instead of retreating to a stand off. If you are going to > do a job then do it right. The BATF is there to protect us and they > must have the proper equipment and people to do the job.  Let the FBI, Customs, and local police officers do the ATF's job.  WE DON'T NEED THEM ANYMORE!!!  The cigarette cops are just leftovers from Prohibition days.  They are an anachronism!  > With the WoD and the increased crime in the streets the BATF is needed > more now then ever. If they blast away a few good fokes then that is > the price we all have to pay for law and order in this country. Look > at all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country > of ours.  Including you?  What if the cigarette cops kicked down your door and cut you in half with a machine gun?  THIS COULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN. Maybe they get the wrong address and then raid *your* home, for example. It's happened before and it can happen *again*.  I have heard of more than one instance of a no-knock raid going sour.  Just recently I heard about a case in which police raided this guy's home because they thought he had dope or something.  The guy blew both of the officers away and he didn't go to jail for it.  The judge hearing the case ruled that the man was acting in self-defense.  > With the arms build up in Waco they needed to hit that compound with > mega fire power. They could of gone in there blasting and killed a few > women and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn > to death 51 days later.  Are you sure that that would have been the way to go?  Surely the FBI and ATF could have handled this fiasco better.  They didn't have to massacre all those people.  As Stimpy said in "Fake Dad", "Shame, shame, double shame!"  The FBI and ATF should be ashamed of theirselves.    Scott Kennedy,  Brewer and Patriot
Did anyone else notice how the question of what federal laws were violated was brushed aside? I'd like to know what laws were violated, and on what evidence the orignial BATF warrants were based.
In <53930421052235/0005111312NA3EM@mcimail.com> 0005111312@mcimail.com (Peter Nesbitt) writes:  >I want to get involved in the fight to save our gun rights.  But first, I need >to get a little more educated.  I've been reading all the magzines and books I >can get my hands on, and sifting through hundreds of messages here in the  >Internet. [...] >Can anyone tell me how/where to obtain this info?  Surely there has to be a >way to obtain copies of anti-gun legislation from those *&%$#@'s in Washington.  The House Document Room can be reached at +1 202 225 3456.  You need to  have the number of the document you want (e.g. HR1036) and they'll be happy to send it to you.  Tell them if it's going to be a big stack, because the surly sounding guy who answers is scrawling in a really awful hand on the back of the envelope that will come and will run out of room quickly if you don't tell him.  The Senate document room is too important to deal with the likes of you and I, and will answer requests from off the hill only by mail.
In article <C4tsD1.1vA@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes: >In article <1993Apr1.010834.4326@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> rcanders@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mr. Nice Guy) writes: >>Both the " Gun Nuts" and the gays are aggressively defensive and quite >>hostile to any one trying to deprive them of their rights.  Just like >>any group trying to protect their rights. > >The fallacy of this whole thing is that YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT IN JEAPARDY >BY THESE POSTS.    How can you say that?  I presume that you mean that talking about restricting rights is not the same as restricting those rights.  Well, arguing for those restrictions may lead to implementation, much the same way as assault can lead to battery (legal definitions).  >Most t.p.g people and the homosexual groups won't even >discuss the subject at all in a polite form.  The mere raising of a question >as to why the rights are there or what exactly the 'right' encompasses >bring shrill posts and angry/hostile traffic.    Well, I can't speak for the homosexuals, but I've seen ALOT of polite discussion on t.p.g.  Please, everyone, don't take this guy's word, or mine for that matter, on it.  Read t.p.g. for a while, and try to determine from which direction most of the flameage originates.  If you post without flamebait, you will generally receive reasoned responses.  True, there are those who tend to lose their tempers quickly, as there are on all newsgroups, but they really do feel their rights are in jeopardy.  Oh, and neat trick talking derisively about another newsgroup while not crossposting to allow them to defend themselves.  >I think a lot of t.p.g people have very thin skin when it comes to  >discussing these subjects.  Methinks you doth protest too much.  				Dave Schabel
In article <93110.11320334AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET>, <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> writes: > Ah yes, I see a few liberal weenies have come out of the woodwork > to defend the burning of the children. Probably drooled all over themselves > while watching the TV coverage. >  > Probably had a few like that in Nazi Germany, as well. >  > Oh yeah, ATF/FBI now claims, according the the media, that there are > a few survivors. The number seems to vary minute by minute. >  >  >
In <1r2cat$5a9@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> mikey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu writes:  > cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: > :mfrhein@wpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Frederick Rhein) writes: > : > :> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm day > :> in Texas.  > : > :Do YOU eat all your food cold? >  > Thank you for pointing out the obvious to people who so clearly missed it. > I can't stand it when people's first reaction is to defend the aggressor.    Minor quibble:  The assualt (and it was one) began near dawn.  The fire did not break out for several hours.  I find it highly unlikely that the BD would be cooking lunch while armored vehicles punch holes in their house and are pumping in tear gas.  The lantern story makes more sense, except the fire  seemed to spread too quickly, even given the nature of the buildings and the very high winds.  And it was daylight, but I guess in the innner recesses it could be dark--shutters probably closed as well.    Which puts us back to the FBI did it, or the BD did it, or some other screw- up occured, which is quite possible.    The problem with the FBI as a monolithic entity doing it is that it requires *everybody* involved to keep their mouths shut.  While they tended to behave  like total idiots, that does not make them homocidal maniacs, either.  And if it was one nutcase agent, then it serves no purpose to blame the whole agency.    I can believe that a real nut-case like a Koresh would start such a fire, but I'm far from convinced he actually did so.    Then again, I rarely go off making blanket condemnations and pronouncments within 2 hours of a very confusing incident over 175 miles away...  semper fi,
In article <C518B1.AMF@magpie.linknet.com> manes@magpie.linknet.com (Steve Manes) writes: >: >: > Last year the US suffered almost 10,000 wrongful or accidental >: >: > deaths by handguns alone (FBI statistics).  In the same year, the UK >: >: > suffered 35 such deaths (Scotland Yard statistics).  The population >: >: > of the UK is about 1/5 that of the US (10,000 / (35 * 5)).  Weighted >: >: > for population, the US has 57x as many handgun-related deaths as the >: >: > UK.  And, no, the Brits don't make up for this by murdering 57x as >: >: > many people with baseball bats.  >: If you examine the figures, they do. Stabbing is favourite, closely >: followed by striking, punching, kicking. Many more people are burnt to >: death in Britain as are shot to death. Take at look and you'll see for >: yourself.   >It means that very few people are shot to death in Great Britain.  And I'm sure that is a great comfort to the widows and children of those stabbed, beaten and burned to death. The real question is, "Did the crime rate in England go down, after they enacted  gun control laws?" If you look at the rates before and after their first such law in 1920, you will see no effect.
In article <C4txEK.FCq@magpie.linknet.com>, manes@magpie.linknet.com (Steve Manes) writes: > Morris the Cat (rats@cbnewsc.cb.att.com) wrote: >  > : Well, as Neal Knox of the Firearms Coalition points out, the full > : force of the anti-gun ruling class, their multi-millions, their > : polling organizations, their schools, their news media, their > : "entertainment" media >  > The entertainment media... a "force of the anti-gun ruling class"?? > Is this the same media that's made billions producing films and > television that glorify guns and gun users?  Or is that another > anti-gun media? >  > You've got to be kidding.  By this, do you mean that you consider it absolutely impossible for the media to be guilty of hypocrisy?  Note that the film industry in California traded their political support for an "assault weapon" ban in the state for an amendment to the bill exempting the entertainment industry from that very ban.  Note that the very issue of the Batman comic book ("Seduction of the Gun") that was produced as a tool for gun-control organizations carries a back- page ad for a "Terminator II" video game extolling the numerous and varied sophisticated weapons available to the player.  Note that Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, publisher of the NY Times -- one of the oldest and most incessant gun-control grinders -- himself carries a concealed handgun.  Still, you find it completely incredible that these folks live by the  aphorism, "Do as I say, and not as I do." --
andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes: > >The NRA supports anyone who's pro-gun and has a chance of winning >election, regardless of their other positions.  Is it their fault that >some drug-legalizers are anti-gun?  Is it their fault that the >drug-legalizers who are pro-gun can't get elected?       It's not the NRA's fault; but it is something to consider if you are considering contributing to the NRA. If candidate B is a complete asshole whose only saving grace is that he opposes unnecessary restrictions on firearms, I wouldn't want my membership dues funding efforts to get him re-elected.       I have other problems with the NRA (as an organization; the individual members I've met have been loyal, trustworthy, honest, brave, etc., especially my boss who probably reads this newsgroup B->); they are definitely pro-hunting, and I recall seeing a pro-Desert Storm NRA bumper sticker. Sometimes they come on too strong in the political arena, which contributes to their reputation as "bad guys" amoung many people.
fbrown@seaway.ssd.kodak.com (Frank Brown 726-0415) writes: >This is the AP story from Fri morning. > >As the walls came tumbling down and tear gas filled the air, cult leader >David Koresh sprang into action. He left his third-floor bedroom and began >looking around the house, making sure women and children were secure and  >checking that everyone had their gas masks on properly. Within hours, the     >compound became an inferno. Nine Branch Davidians excaped. >   This is their story, gleaned from lawyers who spoke with six of them >who are jailed on charges that include conspiracy and murder. That day the  >six said a portable radio offered the only contact with the outside world     >since Koresh's right-hand man, Steve Schneider, ripped out the compounds's  >phone line after FBI agents called before dawn Monday saying this was the >cults last chance: Come out or prepare to get forced out.  Aw, gee, and whose fault is THAT?  >    They kept their word. By dawn, tanks were battering the Mount Carmel >compound, punching for hours to creat holes for tear gas to enter. The BD >meanwhile proceeded with their daily routines. Strapped into gas masks, the >women did laundry. Others read Bibles in their rooms. The 17 children, all >under 10, remained by their mothers' sides. Still, it was hard to ignore  >what was happening around them. Each time a tank rammed the  >poorly-constructed building it shook violently. Cult members dodges  >falling gypsum wallboard and doors.  Dear, dear.  They could have COME OUT.  >Hundreds of gas canisters hurled in from the armored vehicles were filling >the air with noxious fumes. The flying canisters were more frightening than >the tanks. At least one man was hit in the face.  Dear, dear.  They could have COME OUT.   The gas began filling the air, >driven by heavy gusts of wind coming through windows and the holes the tanks >made.   It couldn't have gotten too heavy with all that wind blowing through.  Scattered throughout the house, the cult members made no efforts to >gather. Then the FBI sent in its biggest weapon -- a massive armored vehicle >headed for a chamber, lined with cinder blocks, where authorities hoped to  >find Koresh and Schneider and fire tear gas directly at them. >  Here the cult members' story diverges from the government's version. The >FBI says cult members set fires in three places. But each of the six cult >members, in separate discussions with lawyers, consistently gave versions >at odds with the FBI's account. They say the tank flattened a barrel of  >propane, spilling its contents. And as the tank thundered through the house, >it tipped over lit lanterns, spitting flames that ignited the propane and >other flammables. The home of used lumber, plywood, and wallboard tacked  >together with tar paper was vulnerable. The building erupted. Nine BD's >escaped jumping through windows and dashing through other openings. Others >died groping in the blackness.  Sad, but they COULD HAVE COME OUT.
>   I HEARTILY agree.  Now that the BATF warrant has been    >   unsealed, it is CLEAR that Clinton and Reno supported an    >  ILLEGAL raid.  Did they not KNOW this?    >     NO authority for a 'no-knock" raid  >    NO authority to use helicopters. >     NO authority to search for a "drug lab"  >    And, apparently, not even any authority to search for "automatic >    weapons".  >     51 days of GOVERNMENT LIES.  	Sorry, I missed all this!  Can you please give an update on 	the warrant?  I hadn't heard that it was unsealed.  There 	was no authority for a "no-knock?"  This is news.  How about 	an OK for a wiretap?