Cross-posted to talk.politics.guns from can.politics:  Mark G. Salyzyn (mark@ve6mgs.ampr.org) wrote: # cmk@world.std.com (Charles M Kozierok) writes: # >been to Waco, Texas lately? yes, the government takes care of us # >all, doesn't it? as long as you belong to a government-sanctioned # >religion. # # Excuse me, but didn't these gun-ladden cult members threaten, shoot and kill # some people?  They threatened no one.  Their neighbours thought they were a little strange but all in all the kind of people you would want to live next door to.  One version has the BATF serving a *search* warrant by jumping out of a horse trailer with guns and tossing concussion grenades.  If this is the true order of events then the 'cult' could not know that a search warrant was being served and since there was no proof that these guys were police,  the 'cult' had every right to defend themselves.  : Torching themselves shows briliant tactics, and convinces me : they *realy* belong in society ...  If you watch actual footage of the fire from start to finish it is not at all clear that fire wasn't started by the tanks.  The people who survived are claiming that the fire was started by the tanks knocking over some kerosene lanterns.  The FBI is claiming that the 'cult' started the fire.  'they *realy* belong in society' is a catchy phrase but I'm personally waiting to see what the Texas Rangers have to say about it all before I pass judgment.   Why don't you do the same.  Some more interesting facts about the Waco incident:  1)  The original assault was conducted by BATF officers wearing     an assorted types of camouflage.  I saw, on CNN, at least     three different types.   I would be hard pressed to identify     a bunch of guys in 'bring-your-own' battle fatigues as     uniformed officers of the law even if they were claiming to     be police.      2)  The BATF has been lying from the beginning:     + "We only had handguns" - the original footage showed 4 BATF       officers on a roof top getting shot at,  one had an MP-5       assault sub-machine gun.     + "We were out gunned" - sub-machine guns and shotguns are the       BEST in quarters weapon,  you can't be out gunned when you       have the best guns available for the job.     + "We didn't know they had guns that would shoot through doors!" -       this one is the best,  there are very few guns that won't shoot       through a household door,  or through a house WALL for that       matter.  Since officers from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and       *Firearms* should know that,  they are either lying or incredibly       incompetent.  Not to mention criminally negligent if they are       shooting bullets that they think will stop when the encounter       plywood.     + "We had a search warrant.  Actually, we had an arrest warrant.        No, wait,  we had both.  Yeah, that's the ticket.        Oh, and they're child molesters too.  And they make *drugs*.        Did we mention we think they have rocket launchers."       - The story from BATF and FBI spokespeople has changed daily       and their claims were getting increasingly outrageous.        3)  Throughout the siege the FBI and BATF have be claiming that one     of their biggest concerns was that Koresh and his followers would     mass suicide.   Now they are claiming that that's what he did     AND that they are surprised that he did.  Huh?  All in all I think that anything the FBI and BATF say should be taken with a grain or two of salt.  Rob.