In article <1r4e63INN2kb@owl.csrv.uidaho.edu>, lanphi872@moscow.uidaho.edu (Rob Lanphier) writes: |> |> These are two conflicting statements.  To say one is a clarification of the |> other is a breach of logic.  I don't mind people shifting their position on |> an issue.  It irritates me when it is said under the premise that no change |> was made.  What about Deuteronomy 22:20-25?  Is it wrong now?  Did Jesus |> change that? |>  |> : If anything, He clarified the Law such as in that quote you made.  In the |> : following verses, Jesus takes several portions of the Law and expounds upon |> : the Law giving clearer meaning to what God intended. |>  |> Sure he does this.  However, he doesn't address the notion of stoning |> non-virgin brides, because this needs no clarification.  Are you going to |> deny that Deuteronomy 22:20-25 is not patently clear in its intent? |>  I see what you are getting at (or at least I think I do).  Correct me if I am mistaken, but I *think* you are asking me if I still believe that we should uphold all of the Laws pertaining to capital punishment for such things as adultery, rape and other heinous crimes.  As you may recall, Jesus was confronted by this same question in regards to the adultress who was caught in the act and brought before Jesus.  And His reply, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."  Jesus does not deny the sentence that is to due for this violation of the Law.  What do you think of this?  |>  |> : I think you will agree with me that there are in today's world, a lot of |> : modern-day Pharisees who know the bible from end to end but do not believe |> : in it.  What good is head knowledge if there is nothing in the heart? |>  |> I'll agree that there is a lot of modern day Pharisees that know the Bible |> from end to end and don't believe in it.  Depending on how they use this |> knowledge, they can be scary.  They can argue any position they desire, and |> back it up with selected parts of the Bible.  Such Pharisees include David |> Koresh and Adolph Hitler.  I will qualify this by saying *I don't know* if |> they actually believed what they were preaching, but the ends certainly |> made the means look frightening. |>  Agreed.  :)   |> However, just as scary are those that don't know much of the Bible, but |> believe every word.  In fact, this is probably scarier, since there are far |> more of these people, from what I've seen.  In addition, they are very easy |> to manipulate by the aforementioned Pharisees, since they don't know enough |> to debate with these people. |>   Agreed also.  If one is to use the Bible as a reference, one must always be open to different interpretations.  As a Christian, I have the Spirit of God to verify what I believe in the Word.  If what the Spirit tells me is not backed up in scripture then the spirit I am communicating with is not of God.  After all, Jesus tells us to "test the spirits" to know for sure that it is from God.  |> |> : Christianity is not just a set of rules; it's a lifestyle that changes one's |> : perspectives and personal conduct.  And it demands obedience to God's will. |>  |> No, it demands obedience to a book.  If God came down and personally told |> me how I should behave, then I would say that I would be doing God's will |> by doing it.  However, if preachers, pastors, and evangelists tell me to |> obey the will of a book written by people who have been dead for close to |> two millenia (even longer for the OT), even if I follow everything in it |> with my heart, I could scarcely be honest with myself by saying I'm doing |> the will of God. |>  I obey what the Spirit of God tells me to do.  The Spirit will not violate anything that is written in the Bible because that is the Word of God.  I do not worship pastors, preachers, my wife, my mother or my father.  What they tell me does not carry the weight of what God tells me to do and His commands are rienforced in the Bible.   |> : Some people can live by it, but many others cannot or will not.  That is |> : their choice and I have to respect it because God respects it too. |>  |> Well, if God respects it so much, how come there is talk in the Bible about |> eternal damnation for non-believers?  I see little respect eminating from |> the god of the Bible.  I see a selfish and spiteful god. |>  Eternal damnation is the consequence of the choice one makes in rejecting God.  If you choose to jump off a cliff, you can hardly blame God for you  going *splat* at the bottom.  He knows that if you choose to jump, that  you will die but He will not prevent you from making that choice.  In fact, He sent His Son to stand on the edge of the cliff and tell everyone of what lies below.  To prove that point, Jesus took that plunge Himself but He being God was able to rise up again.  I have seen the example of Christ and have  chosen not to jump and I'm trying to tell you not to jump or else you'll  go *splat*.   You don't have to listen to me and I won't stop you if you decide to jump. I only ask that you check it out before taking the plunge.  You owe it to yourself.  I don't like seeing anyone go *splat*.  God be with you,