In article <C5y56o.A62@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian) writes:  >article.  I have no partisan interests --- I would just like to know >what conversations between TerPetrosyan and Demirel sound like.  =)  Very simple.  "X-Soviet Armenian government must pay for their crime of genocide   against 2.5 million Muslims by admitting to the crime and making   reparations to the Turks and Kurds."  After all, your criminal grandparents exterminated 2.5 million Muslim people between 1914 and 1920.   <C5yyBt.5zo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian)  >To which I say: >Hear, hear.  Motion seconded.  You must be a new Armenian clown. You are counting on ASALA/SDPA/ARF  crooks and criminals to prove something for you? No wonder you are in  such a mess. That criminal idiot and 'its' forged/non-existent junk has  already been trashed out by Mutlu, Cosar, Akgun, Uludamar, Akman, Oflazer  and hundreds of people. Moreover, ASALA/SDPA/ARF criminals are responsible  for the massacre of the Turkish people that also prevent them from entering  Turkiye and TRNC. SDPA has yet to renounce its charter which specifically  calls for the second genocide of the Turkish people. This racist, barbarian  and criminal view has been touted by the fascist x-Soviet Armenian government  as merely a step on the road to said genocide.   Now where shall I begin?  #From: ahmet@eecg.toronto.edu (Parlakbilek Ahmet) #Subject: YALANCI, LIAR : DAVIDIAN #Keywords: Davidian, the biggest liar #Message-ID: <1991Jan10.122057.11613@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>  Following is the article that Davidian claims that Hasan Mutlu is a liar:  >From: dbd@urartu.SDPA.org (David Davidian) >Message-ID: <1154@urartu.SDPA.org>  >In article <1991Jan4.145955.4478@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ahmet@eecg.toronto. >edu (Ahmet Parlakbilek) asked a simple question:  >[AP] I am asking you to show me one example in which mutlu,coras or any other >[AP] Turk was proven to lie.I can show tens of lies and fabrications of >[AP] Davidian, like changing quote , even changing name of a book, Anna.  >The obvious ridiculous "Armenians murdered 3 million Moslems" is the most >outragious and unsubstantiated charge of all. You are obviously new on this  >net, so read the following sample -- not one, but three proven lies in one >day!  >			- - - start yalanci.txt - - -  [some parts are deleted]  >In article <1990Aug5.142159.5773@cbnewsd.att.com> the usenet scribe for the  >Turkish Historical Society, hbm@cbnewsd.att.com (hasan.b.mutlu), continues to >revise the history of the Armenian people. Let's witness the operational >definition of a revisionist yalanci (or liar, in Turkish):  >[Yalanci] According to Leo:[1] >[Yalanci] >[Yalanci] "The situation is clear. On one side, we have peace-loving Turks >[Yalanci] and on the other side, peace-loving Armenians, both sides minding >[Yalanci] their own affairs. Then all was submerged in blood and fire. Indeed, >[Yalanci] the war was actually being waged between the Committee of  >[Yalanci] Dashnaktsutiun and the Society of Ittihad and Terakki - a cruel and  >[Yalanci] savage war in defense of party political interests. The Dashnaks  >[Yalanci] incited revolts which relied on Russian bayonets for their success." >[Yalanci]  >[Yalanci] [1] L. Kuper, "Genocide: Its Political Use in the Twentieth Century," >[Yalanci]     New York 1981, p. 157.  >This text is available not only in most bookstores but in many libraries. On >page 157 we find a discussion of related atrocities (which is title of the >chapter). The topic on this page concerns itself with submissions to the Sub- >Commission on Prevention of Discrimination of Minorities of the Commission on >Human Rights of the United Nations with respect to the massacres in Cambodia. >There is no mention of Turks nor Armenians as claimed above.  				- - -  >Vay sarsak, vay yobaz, vay yalanci! Vay Turk milletinin yuz karasi Mutlu vay!  >The depth of foolishness the Turkish Historical Society engages in, while >covering up the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, is only surpassed by the  >ridiculous "historical" material publicly displayed!  >David Davidian <dbd@urartu.SDPA.org>  | The life of a people is a sea, and    Receiving this message, I checked the reference, L.Kuper,"Genocide..." and what I have found was totally consistent with what Davidian said.The book was like "voice of Armenian revolutionists" and although I read the whole book, I could not find the original quota. But there was one more thing to check:The original posting of Mutlu.I found  the original article of Mutlu.It is as follows:  > According to Leo:[1]  >"The situation is clear. On one side, we have peace-loving Turks and on > the other side, peace-loving Armenians, both sides minding their own  > affairs. Then all was submerged in blood and fire. Indeed, the war was > actually being waged between the Committee of Dashnaktsutiun and the > Society of Ittihad and Terakki - a cruel and savage war in defense of party > political interests. The Dashnaks incited revolts which relied on Russian > bayonets for their success."   >[1] B. A. Leo. "The Ideology of the Armenian Revolution in Turkey," vol II,      ====================================================================== >    p. 157.     ======  QUATO IS THE SAME, REFERENCE IS DIFFERENT !  DAVIDIAN LIED AGAIN, AND THIS TIME HE CHANGED THE ORIGINAL POSTING OF MUTLU JUST TO ACCUSE HIM TO BE A LIAR.  Davidian, thank you for writing the page number correctly...  You are the biggest liar I have ever seen.This example showed me that tomorrow you can lie again, and you may try to make me a liar this time.So I decided not to read your articles and not to write answers to you.I also advise all the netters to do the same.We can not prevent your lies, but at least we may save time by not dealing with your lies.  And for the following line: >Vay sarsak, vay yobaz, vay yalanci! Vay Turk milletinin yuz karasi Mutlu vay!  I also return all the insults you wrote about Mutlu to you. I hope you will be drowned in your lies.  Ahmet PARLAKBILEK  #From: vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Vedat  Dogan) #Message-ID: <1993Apr8.233029.29094@news.columbia.edu>  In article <1993Apr7.225058.12073@urartu.sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes: >In article <1993Apr7.030636.7473@news.columbia.edu> vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu >(Vedat  Dogan) wrote in response to article <1993Mar31.141308.28476@urartu. >11sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes: >   >[(*] Source: "Adventures in the Near East, 1918-1922" by A. Rawlinson, >[(*] Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923)  >[(*] (287 pages). > >[DD] Such a pile of garbage! First off, the above reference was first published >[DD] in 1924 NOT 1923, and has 353 pages NOT 287! Second, upon checking page  >[DD] 178, we are asked to believe: >  >[VD] No, Mr.Davidian ...  >  >[VD]  It was first published IN 1923 (I have the book on my desk,now!)  >[VD]                         ******** >  >[VD]  and furthermore,the book I have does not have 353 pages either, as you >[VD]  claimed, Mr.Davidian..It has 377 pages..Any question?.. >   >Well, it seems YOUR book has its total page numbers closer to mine than the  n>crap posted by Mr. [(*]!    o boy!       Please, can you tell us why those quotes are "crap"?..because you do not   like them!!!...because they really exist...why?    As I said in my previous posting, those quotes exactly exist in the source   given by Serdar Argic ..      You couldn't reject it...   > >In addition, the Author's Preface was written on January 15, 1923, BUT THE BOOK >was published in 1924.    Here we go again..  In the book I have, both the front page and the Author's preface give   the same year: 1923 and 15 January, 1923, respectively!  (Anyone can check it at her/his library,if not, I can send you the copies of  pages, please ask by sct)      I really don't care what year it was first published(1923 or 1924) What I care about is what the book writes about murders, tortures,et..in the given quotes by Serdar Argic, and your denial of these quotes..and your groundless accussations, etc.    > [...] >  >[DD] I can provide .gif postings if required to verify my claim! >  >[VD] what is new? >  >I will post a .gif file, but I am not going go through the effort to show there  >is some Turkish modified re-publication of the book, like last time!      I claim I have a book in my hand published in 1923(first publication)  and it exactly has the same quoted info as the book published  in 1934(Serdar Argic's Reference) has..You couldn't reject it..but, now you  are avoiding the real issues by twisting around..    Let's see how you lie!..(from 'non-existing' quotes to re-publication)    First you said there was no such a quote in the given reference..You  called Serdar Argic a liar!..  I said to you, NO, MR.Davidian, there exactly existed such a quote...  (I even gave the call number, page numbers..you could't reject it.)    And now, you are lying again and talking about "modified,re-published book" (without any proof :how, when, where, by whom, etc..)..  (by the way, how is it possible to re-publish the book in 1923 if it was   first published in 1924(your claim).I am sure that you have some 'pretty    well suited theories', as usual)    And I am ready to send the copies of the necessary pages to anybody who  wants to compare the fact and Mr.Davidian's lies...I also give the call number  and page numbers again for the library use, which are:                    949.6 R 198       and the page numbers to verify the quotes:218 and 215                        >  >It is not possible that [(*]'s text has 287 pages, mine has 353, and yours has >377!    Now, are you claiming that there can't be such a reference by saying "it is  not possible..." ..If not, what is your point?    Differences in the number of pages?  Mine was published in 1923..Serdar Argic's was in 1934..  No need to use the same book size and the same letter   charachter in both publications,etc, etc.. does it give you an idea!!    The issue was not the number of pages the book has..or the year  first published..   And you tried to hide the whole point..  the point is that both books have the exactly the same quotes about  how moslems are killed, tortured,etc by Armenians..and those quotes given   by Serdar Argic exist!!   It was the issue, wasn't-it?      you were not able to object it...Does it bother you anyway?     You name all these tortures and murders (by Armenians) as a "crap"..  People who think like you are among the main reasons why the World still  has so many "craps" in the 1993.     Any question?    <C5wwqA.9wL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian)  >   Hmm ... Turks sure know how to keep track of deaths, but they seem to >lose count around 1.5 million.  Well, apparently we have another son of Dro 'the Butcher' to contend with.  You should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a huge discussion on distortions propagated by several of your contemporaries. If you feel  that you can simply act as an Armenian governmental crony in this forum  you will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed. This is not a lecture to  another historical revisionist and a genocide apologist, but a fact.  I will dissect article-by-article, paragraph-by-paragraph, line-by-line,  lie-by-lie, revision-by-revision, written by those on this net, who plan  to 'prove' that the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds is  nothing less than a classic un-redressed genocide. We are neither in  x-Soviet Union, nor in some similar ultra-nationalist fascist dictatorship,  that employs the dictates of Hitler to quell domestic unrest. Also, feel  free to distribute all responses to your nearest ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists, the Armenian pseudo-scholars, or to those affiliated with the Armenian criminal organizations.  Armenian government got away with the genocide of 2.5 million Turkish men, women and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. You, and  those like you, will not get away with the genocide's cover-up.  Not a chance.  Serdar Argic