In article <1993May15.122701.24007@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes: >In article <1su90eINNocq@mojo.eng.umd.edu> josip@eng.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric) writes: >> >>The annihilation of Islam ("Turks") is an older Serbian agenda.   > >	Indeed, so was annihilation of Germans during WWII.  However, it is  >	important to quote Adil Zuflikarpasic in his interview to "Duga": >	 >	"Had Serbs wanted to exterminate Muslims, they could have done it  >	after the WWI, when they were the most loved small nation in  >	Europe."   >	 >	Serbs did not do that, although they supressed some rebellions  >	by Albanian Muslims and Bosnian Muslims quite bloodily.  However,  This is quite a misrepresentation.  After WWI, many Bosnian Muslims were killed and their land taken over by Serbs, and the motive was plunder, not some fictitious "supression of rebellion."  Even earlier, one can point to the destruction of mosques in Serbia itself and expulsion of Muslims.  Here is what Dr. Vaso Cubrilovic, political adviser to the Serbian monarchic regime, says in his memorandum "The Expulsion of the Arnauts" which he presented to the royal government of Stojadinovic on March 7, 1937, in Belgrade:     The Mode of Removal    -------------------     [ describes how expulsion of ethnic Albanians from Kosova is to proceed    through state terror and "private initiative", i.e. Chetnik plunder: ]     Private initiative, too, can assist greatly in this direction.  We should    distribute weapons to our colonists, as need be.  The old forms of Chetnik    action should be organized and secretly assisted.  [...]    ...the whole affair should be presented as a conflict between clans and,    if need be, ascribed to economic reasons.  Finally, local riots can be    incited.  These will be bloodily suppressed with the clans and the    Chetniks, rather than the army.     There remains one more means, WHICH SERBIA EMPLOYED WITH GREAT PRACTICAL    EFFECT AFTER 1878, that is, by secretly burning down Albanian villages    and city quarters.  (Emphasis above is mine.)  These events in Serbia itself forced out virtually all Muslims during late 19th century.  This policy of state terrorism against Muslims, aided by Chetnik "private initiative," has continued in WWII and today.  For example, Muhamed Hadzijahic in his book "Od tradicije do  identiteta: Geneza nacionalnog pitanja bosanskih Muslimana" (Sarajevo: Svjetlost, 1974) writes (pg. 235) how Serbs killed a Muslim in Foca in WWII even though he claimed to be a Serbian patriot, explaining their action as follows:     "Inasmuch as you were a Serb, you sullied the Serb name, because you    are a Turk [i.e. Muslim].  And since you helped us, we shall not    torture you."  so the shot him instead of cutting his throat.  In the past year, Serbs have repeated the slaughter of Muslim residents of Foca.  Destruction of mosques, including priceless historical monuments, completes the eradication of the Muslim presence from territories claimed by Serbs.   >>I strongly dispute your notion that Croats had a similar older agenda, >>in fact, for the past century or two, Croats and Muslims have seen >>themselves as having a lot in common, and they generally had friendly >>relations.  Your suggestion that Croat-Muslim relationship is  >>anything like Serb-Muslim relationship is completely wrong. >> >>To say that Croats and Muslims have a lot in common does not imply >>they are not separate peoples.  .... > >	How touching.  I have nearly cried while I read this.  Unfortunately, >	mostly untrue.  Which part do you claim is untrue?  Explain yourself, or withdraw your claim.  >	Croats from Croatia mostly had no contacts with Muslims, since they >	were mostly "dealt with extreme preudice" long time ago. However  >	one of the main agendas is turning Bosnia into purely Catholic state.  Croatia never had many Muslim citizens for historical reasons, because it was not a part of the Ottoman Empire.  The last major battles between Austro-Hungarian monarchy and the Ottoman Empire in Croatia were at the end of the 17th century.  Need I remind you that modern Croatian nationalism came into being with Dr. Ante Starcevic, who saw Bosnian Muslims as the best Croats, so much so that in 1853 he contemplated moving his operations  to Sarajevo?  You are confusing clericalist Croatianism with Croatian nationalism here.   Political nationalism has always been stronger.  As for your other theories, you are clearly overjoyed that Croat-Muslim alliance in Bosnia-Herzegovina is now in trouble.  Arguments such as yours are clearly intended to create and deepen this split.    >	I should add few more things.  A.J. Evans, in his "On Foot Through >	B&H" describes that Catholic clergy in the last century was  >	apparently more scared by Serbs, then by Turks, because Serbs were >	growing stronger and, unlike Turks, represented great danger for >	idea of Catholic Bosnia.  President Tudjman clearly states in  >	his book that Muslims do not exist as a separate nation from  >	Croats and Serbs, and he many times suggested, even in interviewes to >	foreign papers, that solution is to split Bosnia. >  >	Josip knows this and he is only working on the image of Croatia.  In international relations 101 you'll learn that unless weak unite to counterbalance the strong player, soon they are taken over and that's the end of them.  Balance of power thinking has brought together Croats and Bosnian Muslims.  This is only natural; all other alignments are unstable.  I'm working on pointing out this basic fact: Croats and Muslims have been aware of it for as long as Serbia has existed.   You are wrong if you think only "image" is at stake here.  Croatia has a deep interest in her alliance with Bosnian Muslims, and vice versa.    I think Tudjman understands this, although he does not have much choice  at this point.  Tensions should have been defused better earlier, before  any open confrontation developed.  Although I still think Croatia will survive, it will lose a lot; but Bosnian Muslims may end up even worse off.  However, their position now is so horrible that perhaps they do not see it getting any worse.  The key point is: do they still have any hope left? If not, then all bets are off.  Mr. Stojanovic is clearly very, very happy about this.  I'm deeply hurt. This is not about some "image" but about survival of a concept of a partnership which I believe is natural and essential for both Croats and Muslims.