Turkish Historical Revision <9305111942@zuma.UUCP> via dotage sera@zuma.UUCP  (Serdar Argic) responded to article <1sn5f5INNkh6@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>  pavlovic-milan@yale.edu (Milan Pavlovic) who wrote:  [MP]   Actually, I would like to get a compilation of these one liners,  [MP] so that I could print them out and show them to my friends over the  [MP] summer, and they can see what kind of clowns exist out there in Chicago.  Check out alt.fans.serdar.argic!  [(*] Well, does it change the fact that during the period of 1914 to 1920,  [(*] the Armenian Government ordered, incited, assisted and participated  [(*] in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people because of race, religion [(*] and national origin?  Muslim race? Muslim national origin? You fool!  [(*] 1) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of Van.[1,2,3,4,5]  NO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%  [(*] 2) Armenians did slaughter 42% of Muslim population of Bitlis.[1,2,3,4]  NO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%  [(*] 3) Armenians did slaughter 31% of Muslim population of Erzurum.[1,2,3,4]  NO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%  [(*] 4) Armenians did slaughter 26% of Muslim population of Diyarbakir.[1,2, [(*] 3,4]  NO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%  [(*] 5) Armenians did slaughter 16% of Muslim population of Mamuretulaziz.[1, [(*] 2,3,4]  NO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%  [(*] 6) Armenians did slaughter 15% of Muslim population of Sivas.[1,2,3,4]  NO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%  [(*] 7) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of the x-Soviet [(*]   Armenia.[1,2,3,4]  No. The Azeri population of Armenia in 1988, after anti-Armenian pogroms in Azerbaijan, was kicked out and sent to Azerbaijan. The remaining Muslims  stayed in Armenia!  [(*] [1] McCarthy, J., "Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman  [(*]                   Anatolia and the End of the Empire," New York  [(*]                   University Press, New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.  Let's check it out! On page 121 of this Turkish suggested reference we read:   "The 1927 Turkish census registered not one person of the Gregorian Armenian   faith in Van, only one in Bayazit, and twelve in Erzurum. A people who had   lived in eastern Anatolia since before recorded history were simply gone."  [(*] [2] Karpat, K., "Ottoman Population," The University of Wisconsin Press, [(*]                  1985.  Let's check it out, but first of all the complete title of this reference includes the words "1830-1914". Thus such a reference cannot support the  above claimed garbage! However, since this is a Turkish suggested reference, on pages 51 and on Table I2-B it states there were 2.4 million Armenians in Turkey from 1844-1856. I guess they "were simply gone" after WWI!  [(*] [3] Hovannisian, R. G., "Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.  [(*]                         University of California Press (Berkeley and  [(*]                         Los Angeles), 1967, pp. 13, 37.  Let's check it out! On page 48 of this Turkish-suggested reference, under sub-title, "Deportation and Massacre of Turkish Armenians" it states:   "Several authors assert that Armenian resistance at Van constituted a key   factor in the Turkish evacuation of Persia and motivated the Ittihadist   [Young Turk] leaders to annihilate the Turkish Armenians. The question of   responsibility for the massacres or deportation of nearly all Ottoman   Armenians has evolved into a polemic. Hundreds of books, articles, and   documents have been published to describe the horrifying scenes of violence   and death. Many writers, such as the British Bryce and Toynbee, French Pinon,   German Lepsius, American Morganthau and Gibbons, have insisted that the   massacres were predetermined and ruthlessly executed. The have refuted the   Ottoman government's official publications and justifications by   substantiating that anti-Armenian measures were deliberated by the    Ittihadists even before the outbreak of war. The fact remains than an    estimated eight hundred thousand to over a million Armenians perished within   a few months, and several hundred thousand more succumbed in the following   years to the ravages of disease, famine, and refugee life. Unknown numbers   of women and children were converted forcibly to Islam, possessed by   Turkish men, or adopted by Moslem families."   [(*][4] Shaw, S. J., 'On Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies  [(*]                 in 1914, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey  [(*]                   (Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of  [(*]                 Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)." (London, Cambridge University  [(*]                  Press 1977). pp. 315-316.  Stanford Shaw is a paid liar/revisionist for the Turkish government, and has been exposed as a plagiarizer! For example:  Experts from an interview (in Greek) with Professor Spyros Vryonis (from NYC's National Herald, 3/12/93) [Thanks, Mr. G.B.]   "Few people know of the problem I faced at UCLA when Professor Stanford   Shaw was due for promotion. I knew him to be Turkey's man; due to my   reading knowledge of Turkish and my seniority over him, I was a member   of the promotion committee. For that case, I sat down and read his entire   treatise "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey". It took me   three months and I found out, from volume I, that he had plagiarized    Uzun Jarsoglu, an eminent Turkish specialist on Ottoman history. Shaw   himself claimed in his introduction that his treatise was the outcome    of a 20-year search through the Ottoman Archives. Well, I went on leave     and managed to show 40% of Volume I, containing around 5000 sentences,    to be the result of plagiarism, matching each sentence with passages       from the original work. He had even reproduced the errors. So I produced a   500-pages manuscript and submitted a 60-pages report on Shaw's plagiarism.     The University, however, rejected my report and, after a closed meeting,   promoted Stanford Shaw to Distinguished Professor. I paid a price for    all this: upset by the whole process, I confronted the entire University   structure and was considered to be a chauvinist and madman. I asked for   permission to run a seminar on Shaw's book that was denied by the President   of the University. While the Center for Near Eastern Studies granted me   permission, the President was depriving me of my academic freedom. Luckily,   the Dean refused to give in and I did run the seminar, attended by more    than 150 academic people, in which I uncovered Stanford Shaw, who refused   to attend. As a punishment, the University froze all my raises."  [5] "Gochnak" (Armenian newspaper published in the United States), May 24,                1915.  No chance! There was no May 24th, 1915 issue of Gochnak!