ab4z@Virginia.EDU ("Andi Beyer") writes:  > I'm not ignorant of the Holocaust and know more > about Nazi Germany than most people (maybe including you).     You really belong to the 25-30% of ignorants in USA who don't know what   the Holocaust ("Shoa" should be the real word) was. First you write in    Message-ID: <1993Apr24.203620.6531@Virginia.EDU>  Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 20:36:20 GMT  >  I think the Israeli press might be a tad bit biased in >  reporting the events. I doubt the Propaganda machine of Goering                                                            ^^^^^^^      and later, as somebody informed you about your gross mistake, you    write in       Message-ID: <1993Apr25.181351.1373@Virginia.EDU>  Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 18:13:51 GMT  >  First let me correct myself in that it was Goerbels and                                               ^^^^^^^^ >  not Goering (Airforce) who ran the Nazi propaganda machine.     instead of Joseph GOEBBELS. And you dare to say that you    "know more about Nazi Germany than most people (maybe including "us")" ?     I'm sure you learned the history of Nazi Germany AND Austria from    your family.      > 	What I resent is ignorant statements that call people > names when they disagree with your position. Opposing the > atrocities commited by the Israeli governement hardly qualifies > as anti-semitism. If you think name calling is a valid form of > argument in intellectual circles, you need to get out more > often.     Trying to make comparisons between Israels politics and Nazi German-   Austrian politics shows only your degree of ignorance (high), intellect   (low), humanity (none) and antisemitism (average). I respect anybody   who dissagrees with me as long as he respects me and discusses in a   civilized manner. I would never say that anybody that critizises Israel   and/or its politics is an antisemite, except he uses antisemitic   vocabulary/terminology/demagogy. Israel is not a perfect country and   its politicians also commits errors, even some of them are corrupt   (like politicians in any other country), but they carry a huge burden:   to care for the safety of ALL its citizens, and that is really not an   easy task in a country that is surrounded by enemies who only expect   that Israel commits the ONE BIG ERROR and wipe the country (and its   Jewish citizens plus the so-called collaborators, arabs that wanted to   live in peace with their Jewish neighbours) of the map. As I said,   Israel is not a perfect country, but it is the ONLY democracy in the   whole Middle-East and the only country in the world where Jews from   everywhere can have a refuge in case of persecutions in the countries   they are living.   Our long history has taught us that we cannot rely on non-Jewish   nations and its governments: as soon as there are more or les big   social-economical-political problems in any country, the first ones   that pay for the broken glasses are the Jews, and later the other   minorities of the country.    > I don't think the suffering of some Jews during WWII                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  > justifies the crimes commited by the Israeli government. Any > attempt to call Civil liberterians like myself anti-semetic is > not appreciated.    This is really outrageous: 6.000.000 murdered Jews, besides the   thousands  who survived the Shoa in some way or another, and the rest   of the living ones mourning for all of them ! I don't know what you   call a "Civil Libertarian" (never heard about them) but I know only   one thing: if all of them think like you do it, then "Civil Libertarians"   is a new denomination for Antisemites. May other Civil Libertarians come   to word to this group so that we can learn if A.Beyer and me are right   (that Civil Libertarians are Antisemites), or that I'm wrong and he is   missusing that word.   BTW, I couldn't care less for what Andi Beyer appreciates.     -----------------------------------------------------------------------------   Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de   Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27   2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09