In article <1993Apr19.182327.3420@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> denning@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes: >The following document summarizes the Clipper Chip, how it is used, >how programming of the chip is coupled to key generation and the >escrow process, and how law enforcement decrypts communications.  Interesting.  Tell us, what happens if I were to say OK, I want to have something else.  If the law enforcement wants my traffic, they can record it, then get a search warrant, and get the keys FROM ME, just like they would the keys to a stout private safe, etc. (Lets say I suspect that there is a way to trivially crack this at the Fed level, with no warrant, say for NSA scanning for keywords, etc., and the government has abused great power in the past...).  So I say "Mr Vendor, I want something different, independent.  I am a paranoid sort, ya understand...".  Will the result be "Sorry, without Government permission, we cannot sell you anything secure", or would it be "Sorry, we know which side our bread is buttered on, we cannot sell except to government people, law enforcement, and 'special' people...".  What, in your opinion, would be the chances of "sure, we will sell you this secure system ... be happy to..."  Also, please be so kind as to tell us what the plans are for private encryption of, say files transferred by modem, or FTP, or data stored on disk?  SURELY you have a feel for what the administration is planning for us people on that....  With your rather intimate relationship with the FBI, NSA, etc. you must CERTAINLY have an idea.  You are surely not going to say "the people are not to know, until it is too late..." This IS supposed to be government of the people by the PEOPLE, isn't it?  That is, the people ARE the government's BOSSES?  The BOSSES want to know what the *@()#*&(@ is going on here...  You see, I am kind of nervous, because in the last month or so, I have seen a non-stop stream of ideas coming out of Wash DC that at least appear VERY STRONGLY to have a common trait to limit privacy (freedom from Govt eavesdropping), and the ability to defend ourselves against violent attack (no, 911 is *NOT* good enough for 'common folk', they arrive only in time to clean up the mess: I would be DEAD if I had to depend on 911...).   You see, with all that talk about National smart ID cards, limiting of encryption to 'government approved', denial of means to effective personal defense (EIGHT bills in congress right now), it looks an AWFULLY lot like the whole thing is to be able to trace EVERY ACTIVITY of an individual from cradle to grave.  All it would take is requiring that National ID card to be used in all transactions... and with no effective data protection, and with the people suitably disarmed, there would not be a helluva lot they could do about it, now would there?  All in the name of the War on the Constitu ... er ... drugs, and of course that catch word 'terrorists'.  What is wrong with good OLD-FASHIONED POLICE WORK to build a case?  They don't want to have to be burdened to leave the office, it seems...  Please read the Bill of Rights (first ten amendments to the US Constitution) and tell us how you can reconcile this Big Brother-ish policy of the Administration (always for a 'crisis' of some kind, isn't it?) with that Bill of Rights in the context of the people who wrote it?  Reassure us - please... (or is that no longer regarded as necessary, seeing as apparantly the people have NO input on this agenda, the Administration preferring to make all the DECISIONS in secret, then springing it on us...).  Doesn't sound much like ... by the PEOPLE to me.  I cannot help notice that the congress people involved were NOT mentioned on the press release.  I find that more than a little bit curious, don't you?  I sure would like to know who to not vote for come election time...  Yes, I am upset.  I feel you are a part of this, because I recall it was you that was posting HEAVILY in favor of a very similar idea (could have been the SAME thing, it was so close) a few months ago...  I also recall it was not well received.  Apparantly powers-that-be really didn't care (or were not told, or both).  From what I see, Clipper will ONLY be useful for conversations I don't want the neighborhood kid listening in on.  Any SERIOUS security I don't think I would want to trust it a bit.  Might as well use cleartext. Certainly corporations would be rather dumb to depend on this for serious trade-secret data, especially if millions depended on that security. Given enough money, one could BUY any keys they wanted.  Buy a crooked judge, and a crooked cop.   Given a few hundred thou, they wouldn't be hard to find.  So, we end up with only criminals, terrorists, and the Government with real security, and the ability to eavesdrop.  You know the first two, if they are serious, ain't going to use this thing for THEIR communications.  I bet the government won't, either (except perhaps to order a pizza).  Tell us, will that be prima face evidence of criminal activity, someone not using the 'government approved' methods?  That just a desire to have PRIVACY is no longer regarded as a legitimate right of an unconnected citizen?  Will that be grounds for a fly-through-the-door raid, and confiscation of all one's equipment, as 'terrorist tools', using civil forfeiture, so there will be no inconvenient need to PROVE any wrongdoing on the part of the citizen?  I have yet another question, are we going to see articles in all the public magazines, consisting of soothing text telling us how great this is, how nice the government is by LETTING us have this illusion of privacy?  That the government is going to be so kind as to let us 'sort of' exercise a RIGHT?  What you want to bet that I am correct here?  Please answer these questions.  As citizens of the United States, we hava a RIGHT to know what our Government plans to 'let' us have out of the goodness of their hearts...  Funny thing, though - with all these proposals, I don't feel ONE BIT safer from drug dealers, terrorists, or a common street thug.  I am beginning to wonder if the greater danger lies in the above entities, or our own government gone out of control?  Re-assure us, please.  So far, I haven't seen much to reassure me... and a LOT to greatly disturb me.