on on credit cards and uh i i had recently had some dealings with a fellow that they had run up he was making oh considered a modest salary for an engineer and he had run up uh more than a years salary in in various debts to and he wound up declaring bankruptcy but there it it's hard to believe that you'd run up twenty thirty thousand dollars of uh well it was a combination of things he had uh there were
I dealt with a guy that made enough money but had a lot of debt.