hi ken mcritchie i agree with most of your post but not the last comment at first i thought the same myself but i get the point now i was looking at the word in its loose meaning but outside of that i would agree this atg's objection is based on a valid argument andythegrump thanks for clarifying that and apologies for calling it 'a bit ridiculous' earlier i don't think it is but it needs some thought i hope you continue to input and help us find an appropriate solution i'm off away from the computer now cheers talk