provocation i think the key right now for me seems to be saving face i don't understand what people are talking about in regards to the welcoming considering on the matter but if i could hear jimbo or somebody at his level say something like karmafist we appreciate all you've done here on wikipedia and we would like you to stay and we recognize that in order for that to happen that there need to be some changes but you'll have to trust that things can be done through current channels and your signature not only isn't necessary but it's making the situation unfortunately worse please let us work together to make wikipedia a better place if i saw that on my talk page i'd change my sig in a second i guess it's partially my fault that i didn't think that was possible in the first place given the atmosphere following the userbox wars agf is fine but assuming once you should be knowing is just plain gullibility but i hope to establish good faith from here on if possible but it's going to take that first step jimbo said he'd do something like that so i can wait for now but if i think he just sees me as a sucker and will say anything to get me to contributing to his website again that good faith is gone and i see no more options to work from within wikipedia afist ''''''