more discussion of changes here's a few excerpts from the article that i'd like to visit smith's earliest religious experiences which involved heavenly visions and visitations the use of seer stones to obtain obscure knowledge and to locate buried treasure were not uncommon where smith lived and the fashionably elite protestant clergy of the area were not impressed by smith's early visions and divinations but neither were they likely surprised or alarmed there are a couple problems with the above first whether seer stones were used by others to obtain obscure knowledge particularly where smith lived i'll explain why i think that's important later second whether joseph used the seer stones urim and thummim to locate buried treasure and whether such efforts were religious experiences to him they were not to my knowledge his treasure hunting efforts were limited to the time prior to obtaining the urim and thummim third whether the fashionably elite protestant clergy whatever that means which probably needs changing were not impressed by the early visions and divinations and subsequently not surprised or alarmed this claim should either a be removed for its lack of verifiability or b be augmented by the remarks that joseph himself makes as a first hand witness i honestly don't have a recommended alternative the entire paragraph is fairly ripe for discussion in my opinion just to recap a whether the use of seer stones was restricted to joseph's residential area b whether treasure hunting was a religious experience for him c i whether the term fashionably elite is remotely relevant to the article c ii joseph's own recount of clergy response should be included at the very least the burned over district of western new york where joseph smith jr was raised is facially inaccurate joseph spent the first ten years of his life in vermont with only four years in new york prior to the first vision i suggest the following rewording of the second half of the entire sentence that campaign also took place in the burned over district of western new york where joseph smith jr had lived for four years nevertheless mormon extrapolations regarding jesus are in many ways more similar to the earliest christian heresies a rather strong claim and i don't mind keeping it in but it should be on the following conditions earliest be quantified to a given year and christian quanitified to a sect of the time we add the following text from hugh nibley's the world and the prophets which tells of a time when current generally accepted christian beliefs were heresies ignatius of antioch writes to the trallians 'there are some christ betrayers they introduce god as being unknown ' and to the smyrnaens he says 'do ye therefore mark those who preach other doctrines how they affirm that the father of christ cannot be known page the great crime of the heretics in general according to the apostolic constitutions is 'that they blaspheme god by saying that he is unknowable and not the father of christ but is indescribable unutterable unnamable self begotten ' page mormon followers of brigham young generally believe in young's doctrine that jesus was born into a spirit body like the rest of humanity and remained in that state until his incarnation the word incarnation doesn't fit the context of the sentence and i'd prefer to discuss mormonism here i recommend we change that to say the branch of mormonism lead by brigham young teaches that jesus was born into a spirit body like the rest of humanity and remained in that state until his mortal birth he claimed to have received revelation only after asking questions about a subject pondering and praying to god for an answer as smith's teachings evolved his later teachings painted a strikingly different picture of the father and the son with physical celestial bodies being one in purpose together with the holy spirit i think the first sentence is out of place read it in context to see my meaning i'd like to clarify the second sentence it could be understood that smith's teaching's regarding the godhead changed rather than expanded i'd like to reword as follows as smith's teachings about god expanded they gradually painted a strikingly different picture of the father and the son than that of other churches with each possessing a physical purified body being one in purpose with the holy ghost as a side note the phrase especially in the region of the country where mormo