i think peter's point johnbod is that people are entitled to their opinions and to use their preferred methods provided it is not to the detriment of the encyclopaedic content in this case it has been pointed out that your insistence on avoiding templates has been clearly detrimental it a question of balancing the two desires one to use a particular style of referencing and one to produce the best possible article would you now be happy for someone to do what i suggested before namely to restore my edit but work backwards from it just in order to remove the citation templates i have offered this before but it was rejected i consider it a somewhat nonsensical position peter is right that the benefits of consistency from using templates are significant but it was offered as a fair compromise and it might yet work