a very disturbing statement well i don't know if you really mean to give a full picture of the case but we could include this one who are the web site of jean pierre voyer a kind of model person for mister messager ybm and who spred a quiet special form for ideologie which goal is to play with words and how to defend and argue about things who do not exist how to play with words and fuck others as phrased on his web site and essentialy how to display a superior attitude in order to effectively use the communication on internet to their full interest by using the circumstances frame of the dialogues this include displaying lies as being facts with such a forcefullness as to convince others it is called postsituationnisme ideologie who is followed by ybm together with a sympathie to the rd reich and a by some called pseudo h gelianism ybm run his forum where he defend the man and his positions with as much furore as he dispells those of igor and grichka bogdanov you will found in it concepts as the superior race versus the inferior race and different creativs ways to talk the technics and language of publicity into a way of mass communication and a weapon to convince anyone of anything i am sure that this angle will bring a certain shade of light where it was upmost needed and will constitute the missing piece of the puzzle i hope you will excuse my very late assertion or r v lation about this subject but i was myself only made aware of it for a very short time ago together with the fact that this voyer and ybm have harrassed people before writers too for books who had nothing to do with science but nevertheless constituted those mens lifes mening for years actually they stopped with their first victims at the end of beginning of to consacrate their cherish technics of manipulating the masses and ideologies of diffamation on other subjects igor and grichka bogdanov no need to say that the former victims are still paying for the vices of voyer and messager and that their lifes and career have been destroyed why so much hate against people they didn't knew and had never met they were only practicing like serial killers start somewhere in the shadow and are only known for much more exposed actions i consider this information for being central in the matter at hand as all accusations will have fallen and nothing much will have come from the original and following j baez paper on the subject if it hadn't been for messager and voyers' questionnable work in the name of very questionnable motives all accomplished to serve a completely useless ideology i think that this will teach us all a lesson regarding objectivity and our hability to evaluate a given problem properly and to be able to use our sense of sceptisisme ans sound judgement on a more general way and even more central here our power to distinguish between agreeing to a given opinion based on facts and being manipulate in doing so for all the wrong reasons this information compleete the picture and gave it its true mening even if it is by showing how meningsless a huge part of this affair was sophie xal