andy i don't have the time to answer all your points now but to clarify two points my analogy was with star trek and science just because ignorant people believe it is science and it attracts more interest than science it doesn't mean we have to redefine science i don't believe sun sign astrology generates the funding for professional astrologers either as a source of income or as a source of clients as in my experience the emphasis on entertainment in sun sign columns tends to put people off getting into astrology robert currey talk