february utc renmiri i seem to recall reading about not biting the newcomers which i surely feel sean did not follow by deleting four pages i spent a lot of time doing without a single message and without leaving it for consensus this is definitely not the experience i had so far with other users here on wikipedia some of them with a lot better claim at being right than him i put the image and at he books they were scanned issue up for review at the project page so we can have consensus your view will stand on it's merits and so will mine but i am also real tired of this discussion so i won't be editing more pages until this is resolved