your accusation that i am astbam please note that it was astbam who put the seed into the mind of davey that the nu venture article should be deleted for lack of notability i only got involved in wikipedia days later in an effort to keep it since the common interest in nu venture at around the same time was the only part of your accusation which i thought had any real substance to it would you please consider withdrawing the accusation now that it appears to have been misguided you perhaps didn't make the connection because it wasn't astbam who actually made the proposal and for some reason he didn't actually follow that suggestion up by voting delete himself either whatever people think of me i'm not the sort of idiot who goes around getting articles put up for afd just so i can then say they should be kept everything else you have presented is easily explained by the fact davey and charles do the same things to the same people for the same apparent reasons meaning it's more than likely to piss the victims off in the same way that's all that happened here