kaballah and tarot the article implies that kaballah and tarot weren't related until the th cent occult movement i assume that's a reference to the golden dawn or papus but that's more of an assumption than anything the cards first appeared albeit in a somewhat different format at the same time and in the same place as a flowering of non jewish interest in kaballah i raise this here because i'm not sure how to correct the article i'm a newbie and would rather not do harm in an attempt to do good and i'd like to see if anyone else has strong opinions tarot and qaballah have a to correspondence and are almost certainly paralell descriptions of the same mythic archetypes the history presented here is propagandist christian it assumes that tarot was started in italy which is patently culturacidal because the cards are part of pagan european mysticism and they did all they could to kill off the pagans italies versions were propagandist toy versions of the original copied without an understanding of the meanings and changed to suit the assumptive interests of the new italian art culture to correspondence is one interpretation but a poor one parallels between the tarot and the tree of life have been drawn eliphas levy but they do not parallel other components of the qaballah such as the texts on gematria while many neo pagans have adopted and adapted the tarot i seriously doubt any kind of pagan origins although i'd love to see evidence for such could you offer any evidence for your statement of a pagan predevelopment the normal knowledge about tarot cards development in italy lists various examples of really existing old playing cards called trionfi and really existent documents which use this word trionfi yes there is proof that the trionfi cards actually did exist no there isn't proof that this is a verifiable point of origin proof can be very hard to come by in a situation involving cultural genocide however there are a variety of esoteric proofs and even easier to understand basic arguments the first of these is the simple question of sociology and anthropology okay if tarot is a product of italian culture of that time period where out of that culture did those symbols derivate the answer is they didn't and couldn't of they were obviously symbols from a system the italians had no knowledge of so you say buddy can you please give us some proof that the italians didn't have any knowledge of tarot symbolism and what symbolism empresses chariots the sun the moon a tower all of it stuff with which italians would have been completely and totally unfamiliar huh vince in milan other proofs as such hinge on increasingly more esoteric facts and as weak an argument as the above sounds if you know tarot it is a very sound argument as one starts to apply the basic principle per card the tarot is obviously a wheel of the year mythic architecture the elementalist perspective would have been an anacronism in italian culture of that time period one side the other side included for balance but also to point out that this article wouldn't exist if somebody didn't have a minority opinion new age noise but another case of somebody who actually saw the obvious as a side note tarot suffered more than its sister system the tree of life which has also been revisionist histroied to start in the th century unlike tarot the proof of this is patently obvious to any who have studied esoteric judaism the bibles symbols and images are based on qaballah not the other way around everything is derivated in judaism by virtue of the tree including even the hebrew language at the very least we can show that the trionfi is not the original tarot by refering to the tarot of the bohemians the trail i