that was quick thank you for agreeing to help a newbie just a final thought i have found that by also adding the userpage template on a newbie's userpage will immediately attract their attention because all of a sudden they see their username changed from red to blue this 'spectacular' clue generally prompts them to click on it possibly for the first time ever and thus to become aware of the fact they have a userpage and associated talk page they can read and use for contacting other users thank you once again for your consideration by the way i admire the work you're doing on all things dutch and wish you all the best with your current and future projects with kind regards patrick