nthep i get your point about the average reader which is why i asked you to be specific as you are more likely to be an average reader in this field than me and will be able to specify what is strange or dubious to you whereas i am less able to disciminate between the totally ordinary and the somewhat less familiar because to me most of the terms are familiar a generic 'references needed' doesn't help at all inline requests for citation help everone for example blowout preventer rams i can reference from memory but though chicken vest is a common term among cape town divers but it might be difficult to find a reference i wish i knew who coined the term but i think that its origins are unlikely to be found far less a reference cheers talk