unrelated comment a couple of questions and advice since we're discussing interesting things to note i have an interesting question open for anyone not just groupuscle if you go to a noticeboard and the consensus is against you will you agree that it is evidence in favor of the position that the articles aren't biased or will your opinion continue to be that the articles are pov in terms of trying to reach a rational conclusion it's good to answer these questions for yourself beforehand feel free to ignore this of course or to keep the answers to yourself although i'm also genuinely curious about your answers on the same token even if you don't escalate i'm always happy to discuss any of my edits or the articles more generally with you or anyone else i am always open to being convinced by sufficient evidence