ok thanks i looked at the first red link in the template and see that it is a deleted article so i can see how that would be helpful that said this may be a bit of a special case given how much has been deleted and rev deled i hope this won't dissuade you form working on another cci in fact i indirectly referred to you in this thread if several of us are working together it might be fun and there will be some admins to help with deleted material talk