thank you for the welcome i will try and contribute where possible my main forte is checking references and ease of writing i review and edit history books for a living and i cannot bear to see long drawn out sentences or poor grammar also it would be good to see if the friction between you and lk can be resolved you both seem keen to produce a good article but the current atmosphere will not be conducive to that goal that comment is aimed at both of you as it does seem to be a little six of one and half a dozen of the other on intial review i will try and get up to speed with the more complex parts of references i have worked out the edit history links fairly easily squared brackets but it seems a bit more complex for book references i will read through the guides thanks again for the welcome