ok i've looked at hanged drawn and quartered ugh and similarly pointed me to marco polo and i think i'm getting it now bear with me my head's been this shape for a long time now that is i can see that one could feel a bit overwhelmed by some of the refs in reculver as there's so much in them that's something that i'm used to and comfortable with but i suppose the point is that it could be well outside many readers' comfort zones so i think i'm convinced which means that now it's me that's intimidated by the coding i'll have to learn and the scale of the task i think this is partly why i let it slide when chzz first suggested it to be honest i think i feel a little like mf these days though i have put a lot of effort into some articles in the past i've wanted to back away from the friction that often arises in wp but sometimes i'll still get involved popping up here asking for help with reculver was spurred by an accidental urge to buff up walkington wold burials which came over me only in the last couple of days and so i'd like to use that to get obscure remote yet historically fascinating reculver up to ga in case i never feel the urge again in view of which i think i'll tinker with the tentative experiment in the reculver article in the next day or two to straighten it out and to explore what needs to be done while i'm here though is there a citation template that renders a bibliography entry in a format like bloggs j going for ga oxbridge or bloggs j how to do it in joseph b ed it's like this oxbridge pp i haven't seen one or would there be no need to use a citation template at all even such is the level of my inexperience with these things cheers