may utc rob schnautz wmf what i meant by bringing up the okeyes wmf example was that he was hired to complete a specific task i e to get the community involved in the development of the new page triage wp npt and the article feedback tool version so his task was clear to us since he is the point man the go to guy it's very easy to get information from him he has the two tool talk pages his newsletters and holds office hours on irc chat and email plus he responds readily and to the point on his talk page there's no confusion everyone knows what's going on if he can't give a direct answer he might say something like i have no control over that i'll ask the developers if your proposal is possible and get back to you he is really clear about what he can do and what is out of his hands up to the developers or wmf or technically not feasible etc i appreciate that you and ldavis wmf are community liaison people but i only learned about you recently and i'm not sure what sorts of things you cover or what it would be appropriate to contact you or ldavis wmf about i found out accidentally about dennis wmf or what ever his name is because i got involved with copyvio issues and i knew moonriddengirl handled that kind of stuff etc that's the first i learned of wmf editors around my big beef which i've gotten over was a problem with an online ambassador and i kept being told every time i asked that it was being handled by the steering committee there was zero transparency and i even had a post removed and got very bad vibs for asking questions from some of editors i don't know what if any positions they held in the education program so i am very surprised and relieved to read above the steering committee in its most recent form wasn't responsible for overseeing anything except the online ambassador management and recruitment as a result the current status of online ambassador recruitment and management is largely unknown so i welcome pine's transparency and your acknowledgment from my point of view of reality and i hope that this all works out i know that some editors keep lists of course articles in their sandbox with the goal of fixing them all up so there still is a reservoir of good will among some community editors to protect wikipedia from these students i'm posting here with the best of intentions and not to harm anyone best wishes