introductions and order the exchange below began between user terryeo and user btfromla on personal talk pages with terreyo's permision i have pasted the discussion here as i think it is relevant to the editing of the page and may be of interest to other editors specifically about npov as it manifests in the dianetics article untill a subject is introduced it can not be argued the latest and greatest one more try intertwines two points of view i'll grant that but don't you see all the discussion on the page from everyone who has done some dianetics saying this article makes no sense it isn't something that can be followed even by a person knowledgeable in dianetics don't you see that happening the problem is real real simple you seem to be creating an article that says dianetics is a controversial subject well that is all right as far as it goes but it does not make clear what dianetics is do you see the problem i believe the reason why is simply that dianetics is never allowed to be introduced because you have to make the article have controversy in every damn line of it no terryeo i don't think controversy and criticism belong in every line and i think if you look closely at what i've written you'll see that isn't the case i know you wish it were otherwise but the social consensus about dianetics is at odds with the way hubbard and scientologists view it readers should be informed of this from the outsetit is the social context in which dianetics exists that doesn't mean that hubbard's ideas can't be fairly represented and i think they should be i did look closely at what you wrote the very first line of it had a lie in it an unverifiable statement i am very glad you used the word context because that is exactly my point if you will look at this wiki link about introductions it tells you where context should appear in an introduction and it is an important thing to know however it is not to appear in the first line of an introduction i am simply following wiki policy here and please get off the i know you think it should be otherwise because i am going to continue to insist on wiki policy being followed here is the link which tells when in an introduction context should be stated wikipedia introductions first the term is introduced in the case of dianetics the introduction of the term should probably include its origins because it is a word created from greek roots unfamilar to many people then after the term itself is introduced the topic needs be introduced this is the policy read it right there then after the topic is introduced so readers can know what is being talked about then at that point context it is not that you are doing things wrong but slightly out of sequence for a reader to be able to understand okay happy new year terryeo i'd suggest that this sort of discussion take place on the article's talk page in the future since it is likley to be seen as relevant by other editors as to the policy about introductions i find it hard to believe you mean this seriously the guideline says that the introduction defines the term and topic and context it says nothing about the order in which those things are presented and introducing a term rarely involves spelling out the etymology of the term again it doesn't all need to happen in the short intro look at line of that intro guideline btfromla what part of term topic context is unclear to you term this means the word itself topic this means the topic itself the wiki policy makes this clear it spells it out a b c what is your argument it does not say context and controversy first and then when people understand the whole subject is nothing but a controversy and should be left alone and never understood then introduces the definition of the term no it does not say stuff these things in the intro any way you want to it says term topic context a and then b and then c okay it says everything about the order of presentation first is says term how simple can it be you got to tell your student the meaning of the word you use then it says topic how simple can it be you have to tell the student what you are going to be talking about then after that after people know what the topic is then then is the time for context okay you read any good ariticle on wiki and you will find this procedure followed this is wiki policy this is the source of the ar