well at this point five editors have participated in a discussion that has gone on for several thousand words and four of the five are in agreement i initially thought jytdog's comment above to you was a little harsh but i think you do need to realize that consensus doesn't mean that we discuss this issue endlessly until the other four of us understand the topic better and come around to your position i think we've got a consensus and its time to acknowledge that rather that continuing in wp idht mode talk contribs