my cents aaron's claim y is true because if x then y mrvoluntarist's argument if x then z z is false therefore not x thus aaron's argument is invalid note that mrvoluntarist's argument doesn't prove y is false it simply proves that y is true because if x then y is not a valid argument if mrvoluntarist had said that aaron's claim was z that would have been a strawman but mrvoluntarist simply showed to aaron's satisfaction that x was false that is not a strawman that's simply pointing out a false premise x is if an action is violent then it is wrong y is the violent act of shooting trespassers is wrong z is the violent act of fighting in a war is wrong ''