first off you should not edit the list templates directly as the bot will ignore any changes also you cannot use vertical pipes anywhere in the syntax other than in separating the template name the section name and the reason otherwise everything messes up in place use from the yellow box at the top of my talk page if i've left you a message on your talk page i will watch it for your response so please reply there i am aware that the bot usually overwrites manual edits as i said i spent hours trying to figure out why following the instructions listed on the rfc page weren't producing the results they should have but when i saw that you had manually edited the list templates i thought perhaps you had disabled the bot until it was working properly basically you're telling me the syntax that is commonly used throughout wikipedia vertical piping is not valid within the rfc templates that's messed up what's even more messed up is the total lack of user instructions that mention that restriction this has become a nightmare of a process