many thanks tony for your prompt reply i have sent another message to victor and hope he will respond on the buddhism talk page i actually think it is down to him to make a move as he must feel strongly if he keeps unilaterally reverting the page back however 'one is a lonely number' so maybe he feels unsupported which is perhaps where we come in i will think over what my concerns might be although i did enumerate a few to victor in my second msg in a nudge and wink kind of way rather than stating them too overtly i dearly wish that genuine consensus can emerge kind regards peter morrell