alan it looks as though we may be going to get involved in some serious discussion over the issue of including current on line debate with no published sources which is all to the good with a cooler head myself and so that we can hopefully keep those discussions on topic i want to first apologise for my insulting remarks quoted above regarding your website and the tone in which they were expressed i admire your willingness to speak here with your real name which is clearly something i have not chosen to do and i acknowledge that that is even more reason to keep my side of the discussions with you civil i will do my best to keep my remarks on this issue courteous however strongly we will no doubt disagree have a good christmas