wikipedia is all for references read everything i've ever said to you and you'll see that i would never deny that i don't know who this you guys is but i speak for myself and have no stake in this fight believe me i agree that goethan and wisesabre and anyone else who has engaged in edit warring is being disruptive but that includes you let's just say that you were to stop and become the paragon of civility and restraint it would make you a whole lot more cedible in your argument please do try mediation t