re telstra article hello i am new to wiki but thought i had read the t cs fairly well i am surprised at the number of citations you are demanding for my edit to the telstra mobile page many of the facts you are seeing citations for are indesputible engineering realities and hence you wont find a seperate statement from someone claiming same although you may find news paper articles backing some of the claims the points made about having superior coverage to cant be disputed and i would ask since that being the case what sort of citation should i be looking for to back up the statement i accept referencing whirlpool for carrier customer numbers is a bit slack the only reason i did that was that in that discussion thread was a neatly pulled together list of each carriers end of year reports showing their customer base which highlighted the point that telstra is the largest carrier by subscriber base at this time considering that it is not appropriate to reference a forum thread how can i best reference this to wikipedia's satisfaction i also note that you removed the citations that pointed back to telstra com the third party aspect of your requirement there is almost not appropriate when you are refering to direct history or a telstra product reference on the topic specifically the references to telstra having the first automated mobile network are hard to find anywhere else but on telstra's media pages because quite frankly no other operator is going to want to talk about it and no other australian source of any repute exists on the internet that would be bothered backing up such claims that i have been able to find again i dont like quoting news papers because there is no traceability as to the reliability of their sources in the first place an encyclopedia based on newspapers is a sure way to enshrine into history some editors' warped viewpoint which may or may not be right but someone reading something and seeing a reference pointing at a news paper may not recognise as simply being another editors point of view please can you outline how i can more effectively cite elements of my contribution and to an extent justify your requirements for citations where i have not yet been able to find any suitable meaningful references hi i'm not sure if you have checked out wikipedia reliable sources which also links to many other wiki policies if there is a few lines in the article which is in a source you can cite it more then once using cite information here once then adding on the other sentences with in the article whirlpool isn't a reliable source but other if it links to a source you could use that source instead but as long as it's reliable source and a third party source websites telstra and any company it owns isn't a third party source which can be seen a bias and can be seen as a point of view which it way we use third party sources see self published sources newspapers can be used whether or not it's a website or you can just reference the title of the article name of the paper page date it was printed and who the story was written by as you can trace newspapers who's stories may not be online or the story was before the internet was around i hope this helps thanks for the warning but i already tried the talk page and rather than discussing the issue there user ryulong opted to revert i notice only i'm accused of edit warring does war require two parties or are you just supporting the use of wikipedia for spam and fighting hard for it sorry you're wrong admins are warned and blocked for edit warring just like non admins it's not a special privilege account to edit war admins can be blocked also but i see where the writing on this wall is i did err on the long side apologies ' talk you've lost me shouldve been one more section down your were right a hour block was too long per policy and i'm sorry for overdoing it '