l thanks will never do anything but use a telephone as i did before i don't want to bother jim but will if i have to and i am sorry i do not care about want to learn or will ever use code i thank you for all the links and stuff etc i don't even know or care about how to post in this friggin message thing but i will never use any of it i once had a fantastic coded page for my clients and it's all gone without warning or reason now all i care about is the link here we are babbling on and on and the only thing that matters here is that the official site url will always be on the page no matter what i will always make sure of it that's what i am getting paid for right this moment cursing and all peace