thanks dw is dw right i like the preface i'm also happy you consider the ot reasonably normative up to the fall of the second temple as i thought it was but coundn't really back it up i'm happy to get rid of lot he's only there because the previous version of the article made heavy reference to him and i didn't want to excise absolutely everything the previous author had written i'm not really sure what to replace him with though i've covered what i think are the important differences already arranged marriage legal position submission to husband and father story of jacob is a possibility but again i'm not sure how normal his situation would be oct utc