fux and drive the phrase either in its full or especially its four note version is just far too mundane to be considered influential without external documentation i'd say it's original research but you know it's just possible that some musicologist said all that it still would be false though thanks for pointing me to geogre's talk pagei'll see if i can add a sonnet or something i agree about lack of google coverage of alternative encyclopedias being a big drawback i've been thinking of just writing whatever i want on my own website dual licensing it gfdl cc and then adding the page to both projects if the other one takes off then it's a boon if not it's still here added bonus of contributing that way attribution required sounds selfish but sort of nice to do it that way talk oh and congrats on articles wow msc p p s do you have a copy of atlas's renaissance music i notice you often cite reese i have no cookies but sometimes norton sends extra things my way talk beer too oh man that looks so good right now lol cheers talk i took the picture and then drank the beer it was good i have a preference for moosehead which is what that was