i have discussed it unlike most of those who revert me heonsi is a pure sockpuppet caden and central data bank haven't discussed at all i think any unbiased party reading the talk page will see that rjensen and r have been thoroughly refuted and now resort only to the classic pattern of merely repeating their long countered points as if they were new e g trotting out and even further adding to their meaningless sources for what is inherently an opinion