say thanks for responding i just noticed your frustration at the cft page i have spent very little time there since a month ago with bobk i argued a little with him on dft but have for the time being chosen not to continue to slug things out i think that we ees need to get together decide on some changes we think we can get away with make the changes and article creations and then slug it out when the opposition wants to revert at least we'll have a foot in the door