lol i wasn't aware there was a piotrus principle thanks for pointing it out yes occasionally good stuff will be added to non article pages and needs to be moved to talk perhaps an even more fitting name would be 'reference desk principle' i have seen this done often with impressive explanations on rdh often by clio being turned into articles as for dop issue i lost track a little i am not sure which argument of mine do you refer to but yes dukes of pless should have a separate article from duchy of pless at some point even if most of such articles start as as little but lists of office holders they have a potential to develop into something more talk