the problem is that i think people have offered constructive criticism i think daniel made his point about the pictures very well and didn't deserve to be told to read the fucking article i also think it unfair to accuse anyone who comments of being a rabid mt apologist if i said something you disagreed with i expect i would be given the same label i appreciate that you have tried to make compromises on the article and this obviously shows as many people have said the page is better now than it was but i do think the tendency for the talk page to descend into nothing but bickering and personal attacks will put off people who would otherwise have worked on it i'm sorry if you found my assumptions unfair but from what i've seen you are not willing to assume to people are commenting in good faith you seem to think everyone has an ulterior motive of wanting to force pov into the article which in many cases not all is not the case in my opinion anyway i'm staying out of it dec utc