true caste community related stuff are really difficult to grasp immediately given the complex nature of indian society i can understand that you need more time to fully analyse the issue take your own time and i am always there to help you in case you need more references we have agreed to maintain the original content till the discussion is over an anon have edited the article without any references and you have reverted it partially change it back to original content as of nov by the way any updates from your side you can take your own time but make sure to maintain the original content we need to maintain the original version till the dispute is resolved anonymous edits and partial reverting will only lead to more confusions if people continue to edit i propose to remove all caste names from the article till the dispute is resolved sorry i thought that i had fully reverted the ip anyway i've read all the english items in some cases more than once i can see that the gounder community phrase is used in the sense of meaning the kv community but that is only apparent if there is a hook in the article to give it some context eg an article talks abour the kmk you know that kmk kv and so when it then says gounder community then the context makes it is obvious that they mean kv i've not explained that particularly well but short version yes in the examples gounder community kv the problem is that is not good enough you cannot prove that the term is not used to refer to other groups of gounder than the kv nor could i find a really clear cut example among the english language sources all of them demanded that the reader already knew some background eg that kmk kv party sure you know that but someone born bred in the uk or usa germany or guatemala australia and austria most probably will not in that sense you are engaging in synthesis and we are not allowed to do that here you said that the tamil sources were important are they really going to resolve the issues that i raise in particular is even one of them going to explicitly say that the term is used either always or most frequently to refer to kvs none of them will say gounder always refers to kvs because there are other communities too that are using the title but you need to view from another angle why other communities non kvs are not referred as just gounder community because all the sections of vettuvars vanniyars vokkaligas don't use gounder title only some sections of those communities use the title and hence they cannot be generally referred as gounder community this gives the freedom to refer kvs as gounder community all of them demanded that the reader already knew some background eg that kmk kv party this is not very difficult we can attach this reference along with other references to prove that kmk or kmp kv party anyway if this not enough here is another reference which says about gounder community taken from deccan chronicle persons belonging to kongu vellalar are mentioned as persons from gounder community to prove that gounder community mentioned here refers to kongu vellalar i have attached the proof here which says sengottaiyan is a kongu vellalar no need to infer from kmp or kmk this reference will directly establish that gounder community mentioned refers to kongu vellalar user mahevenki mahevenki