thanks i appreciate it and i'll stand by my word re mathsci would you like me to provide example diffs i can start with his unmitigated attacks on me in ani of a few weeks ago where he tried to get me banned because he didn't like the way the r i mediation was going or with diffs from r i pages where he has accused insulted me in any number of ways i don't want to drag you into it if you're not interested but i am tired of his ad hominem approach if not he's opened a wikiquette about me and i'll probably as a matter of self defence be addressing the issue there ludwigs