let me clarify my position i do not believe that new wave includes punk i believe that the underground music of the time particularly of the new york scene included both new wave and punk they were two subsets of the same scene punk was harder faster and amateur and unsophisticatednot difficult or challenging at all it was anti art new wave was more arty and sophisticated oftentimes but not necessarily including keyboards which punk never did i would go so far as to say that in the uk pub rock scene a similar phenomenon happened based on what caroline coon wrote in melody maker at the time but i know less about it