what enough to counter the fact that messianic jews for the most part think of themselves as jewish rather than christian as i said if this is a reliable source it is certainly worthy of inclusion but there are limits to how far we can talk over the actual participants in the faith let's be frank if messianic jews called themselves christians then there would be no problem but if they don't then we are essentially engaging in a form of prejudice if we force the term on them if you were catholic would you like some protestant insisting that you're not a christian if you're protestant would you like some catholic asserting that you are a heretic these are not people who are trying to give up their jewish heritage and become christians which would be tremendously easy to do simply by converting these are people who want to accept christ while reaffirming their jewishness they can be both or they can be neither or they can be something midway between but it's not fair to them to force them into one category or another ludwigs