ahhh i see what you mean what about the division of that kingdom formed the states of france and germany gibbon edward the decline and fall of the roman empire hans friedrich mueller ed random house p indeed gibbon regards the kingdoms of france and germany as preexisting though integrated it is their separation under the carolingians that is of historic importance oman charles the dark ages rivingtons london regards charlemagne's grandsons as the first kings of france and germany which at the time comprised the whole of the carolingian empire save italy the monastic reforms and the birth of feudalism originating from a centraly positioned francia made an imprint on western europe which lasts to this da indeed the frankish empire and its periphery defined western europe which is more explicit