hi netsnipe thanks for the unblock i am not worthy i am not worthy thanks again netsnipe not really sure why i got blocked my comments on the ref desk discussion page where meant to add to the ongoing debate but i can be too frivolous on the ref desk so i will rein that in pronto the 'sock' thing possibly because i use to call my self 'abe' before i learned to log in abe normal was already being used and as perry mankster i use several networked computers and a home pc to log in this could have caused the sock thingy and yes using a spoonerism like perry mankster will have you marked as a naughty boy but it was in ref to tom ken jack and neal rather than trolling i have a fun sense of the world and don't take myself to seriously and of course this might not transfer to well to something like wiki so i will try and be more intune to wiki standards when replying on the desks wiki has to be the best thing i ve ever found on the net and hope it stays as good thanks again