september utc ref the comment above about if someone wants to do an article on non bdsm d s i believe that i am in a position to at least create a stub about 'vanilla' d s or 'a rather traditional marriage' as i think of it go back through the talk page history to my rather rambling comment under my logged in name of 'chrisred' to see what i mean let me think about it for a bit does anybody have any ideas of what it should be called and what should be in the stub the page will also be totally worthless without the female viewpoint as it will just become another of those horrible wikipedia pages that looks like it was written by dirty schoolboys