just a clarification some forms of religion are empirical they simple use standards of evidence different than those used for scientific purposes scientific investigation is intentionally designed with a very restrictive set of legitimate forms of observation and takes a conservative stance that makes no claims which cannot be demonstrated from inside that set there are people on both sides of the fence who abuse that process non scientists who make positive claims that cannot be justified within the conservative limitations of science and skeptics who make negative claims that cannot be justified within the conservative limitations of science science is good at what it does but very easy to abuse for other purposes ludwigs