users you mean editors and yes there are above but editors like myself have come into this and all we see is the noise about yes pov no pov yes pov no pov i'm getting an admin wahhhhhh etc etc so your arguments are lost in the self generated noise if you didn't get distracted offered clearly articulated proposals then discussions can be had and yes perhaps the other guy started it but if it means that your edit isn't carried then your proposal is rather in vain