the point of the long quote of cahill from his book was to show that it's clear what he said and it was in context and also to make the point to jeffro that cahill alone originally was my source for the edit not really wilson the wilson quote and ref came later on only because of jeppiz's demanding another source on this talk page etc etc that was really all my long comment above was mainly though not exclusively to jeffro because of certain things he commented and wrote above