but you have to admire the guy's persistence follow his user contributions they go round the clock almost at five minute intervals with a break at o'clock in the morning new york time he lives there and resume five or six hours later so he does nothing else i have to admire such dogged persistence in fact the two human qualities i most admire are that kind of persistence faultless eloquent and persuasive reasoning a sad fact these are so rarely combined i am hoping this may be a test case for wp itself i don't like credentials far more of the problem is poor and sloppy writing so give me a good copy editor any day i had a brief spell at citizendium but i see what you mean about ls what is missing is that 'citizenship points' don't count if you have been a long time here you have shown an ability to work with other editors despite occasional run ins and most other old timers are like that in my experience some of them are a bit mad but you know how to deal with them but you have to face a constant barrage from newcomers who have a complete lack of housetraining there is no way of showing these people the door quickly anyway must go as i'm violating the policy of leaving only messages on talk pages you are a wonderful person don't let it get you down as i suspect it is best