thanks trusilver i will give it some thought i learned a lot from my self nom effort responding as i was to some signpost announcements about the need for more admins if i did it again per your nom i'd articulate better that my main interest is keeping the walls and floors around here free of extraneous stuff i've ended up doing more vandal patrolling than anything over the years though i like creating the very occasional article uploading photo files to illustrate articles that need them and making small improvements where i see the need i've been a sysop elsewhere and elsewhen so it's not something i see as some kind of crown but really as an appointment as janitor i like leaving the place clean without a trace of my own effort besides what i really have to think about is whether i'd be a part of any club that would accept me as a member to paraphrase mr marx i'll get back to you when i've had a think who me