i can't see any of those pages mentioned in the discussion so i do not see any basis for the suggestion that the discussion concluded with wikipedia words to avoid further none of the pages you have cited makes any mention of the word murder given this could you please explain your objection to the term and why you think it is pov this case seems very clearly to have been a murder i am unaware of any doubt in respect of that there is even a quotation in the article referring to it as a murder