rev margolin you are quite correct that lavey did not originate the term 'satanist' and yet you have yet to demonstrate that lavey and his wife and their comrades did not invent the religion of satanism which was obviously my focus of interest for many moons now self id is not irrelevant as this is one of the criteria for sociological categorization if you have others then please explain them i do appreciate your attempted summary of a history of satanism how did you arrive at the th century s as the time of the origin of roman catholicism propaganda using the term the oed is your selection of the late s that leaves at least years of history unmapped based on dashwood or the taxil hoax material absent defining satanism beyond propaganda i don't see how priests caught experimenting with magic or accused of being witches or committing various heresies necessarily represents a 'backfire' are you maintaining that magical practice and or the practice of witchcraft heresies were indicators of the propagandistic 'satanism' of the roman catholic church if so and these may be identified can we run down a list of these identifiers for the 'first part' of satanism's history as a tool of religious propaganda i don't follow your reference to richard ramirez here or why he is some kind of example of a backfire of religious propaganda is it because he uses the propaganda as a fear inspirer with the communication of the media as regards 'reverse christians' or 'inverse christians' i don't think that these kinds of beliefs began being called 'satanism' in any systemic sense until the th century as self applied if you know differently please point out some instances as i would be very interested to learn of the linguistic history with regard to this article it extends off of the satanism disambiguation page to whose talk page you have posted many times and thus without that disambiguation it could well become anything associated with the term if this is your contention then you ought to be stating this on the previously mentioned talk page also so that we can get the disambiguation removed else more clearly indicating what you want to do since presently that page says satanism is a catch all term referring to several religious movements my bolding please make up your mind or at least forge an agreement with me about it consider this some kind of 'satanic' olive branch for my part i suggest that the disambiguation page list the various categories of referent for the term add to these if you have ideas propaganda proto religion in inversion interior to christianity and de facto statuses pop media circus under lavey if you like serious religious extentions starting with or beyond the church of satan or earlier if we can document it and that we delineate those here i can spearhead the matter either at the disambiguation page or here if you like and we can map them out there truly aren't that many of them and some good portion of the territory is mapped on the disambiguation page right now possibly needing a slight tweak please advise as to your preferences and your interests as we seem the major contributors of duration and appear to be drawing near to consensus