thanks for your reply and your explanation you have clarified the issue perfectly to me i have been an active contributor to the article in question for three or four years and on at least two earlier occasions the overall structure of this sentence had led to disputes between editors over the inclusion of which of these two words i think that in order to avoid a repetition of this dispute the structure of this sentence does need adjusting somewhat i will get around to resolving this issue soon thanks again all the best for