proposal by coulliard i'm going on the soapbox for awhile an uncomfortable position in a baseball game sliding runners tend to knock it out from under you i want to explain my position without us getting personal if you take offense apologies in advance and apologies for being so wordy genetic defect i am a baseball researcher by hobby computer programmer by trade and i take everything about baseball's history seriously especially the negro leagues which have become my area of expertise segregation in baseball remains the absolute worst scar on its face in my opinion emphasis on it being my opinion josh gibson pete hill satchel paige bullet rogan oscar charleston andy cooper jos m ndez cristobal torrient and many others men would have easily been hall of famers long long ago had it not been for segregation it's my belief that given current evidence gibson wouldn't have hit much more than or so home runs playing a full schedule given the hr rates of the s and s not nearly as high as today given his truncated career he died after his th season and given the position he played catchers just don't play full schedules because of the extreme wear and tear on the other hand he might have been converted into an outfielder or first baseman in an integrated majors and would have been a possibility babe ruth hit major league hrs had he had to face bullet rogan andy cooper satchel paige and other pitchers of color his totals might have tailed down toward or so and that in a year career compared to gibson's what we know is that gibson is credited with verifiable hr in negro league play plus in mexican league play which was a bit lower level competition than mlb gibson hit against negro league competition which would be second highest of all time behind cobb had he done so in an integrated majors and cobb's might have lost a few points as well had he had to face negro pitchers like lefty cooper and willie foster the raw numbers are still small we can't do anything about that compares very badly to much less but it's still important to know those numbers because it's what he did against major league level competition what he did against amateur and semi pro competition in exhibition games is fun to know if we truly did know but it is not the true measure of his worth and imo it insults the man's memory to artificially pad his numbers understanding that babe ruth hit his home runs in a league that played games per season that homers were easier to hit in ruth's league than gibson's livelier baseballs in the al the relative numbers make gibson look like ruth's peer with few exceptions there are no researchers who do not believe that josh gibson was one of the two or three best pure power hitters in the game and no exceptions among serious negro league researchers we can and in fact should report that there have been various reports of his accomplishments in earlier days but these numbers taken without any context present a superman as unbelievable as that x files episode the unnatural you have to trust that the reason for putting up gibson's reduced stats has a noble purpose telling people that gibson hit hr and batted against all levels of competition tells nothing really because he could have in reality hit with no hr against top level negro league teams but fattened up by counting games against little league comptetition telling them he hit and had a home run every sixteen at bats in a career that included many games in griffith stadium tells them something of importance it gives us an excellent clue as to how he would have hit in the majors had he been allowed to play the nearly and numbers give us no way of being able to separate them and understand their meaning an official scorer counted every one of babe ruth's hr in his major league career and we can go back to sources from that day and find it in gibson's case someone reported sometimes months later numbers that no one even at that time could verify because a lot of the numbers were based on hearsay and some were just plain made up we can't tell how many he hit over a foot fence against a year old kid with a mph fastball because we can't separate them there's plenty of space on the internet for repeating urban legend as fact wikipedia should not be one of them my proposal is that we rewrite the article to include the latest official numbers and make sure it is understood why gibson only managed to play negro league games in his career it will inclu