granted i'm a newcomer i actually do appreciate you putting up with my responses i'm trying to learn by using the discussion page instead of vandalising the main article page under cover of my hughesnet rotating ip the ip address is a static ip for a hughesnet customer with a hughesnet professional service as a long term customer i felt the original criticisms were not clearly stated and warranted clarification hence my counter points note that i did not delete the original largely uncited criticisms to be fair to them but simply offerred a rebutal and clarification inline for each also note that i added the new criticism about rainfade and would strongly recommend that you add the criticism about vpns see above since that is a major weakness of hughesnet for telecommuters as a newcomer who got slapped on the wrist i won't touch the main article but i am hoping that you consider my arguments on their merits and that you provide clarifications and citations in the main article to improve it also a newcomer i thought i'm allowed to use the discussion page to voice discussions on and on and on and on