but then again why not offer a reason why cayra is not notable why not just stop telling me i must work on cayra and all the rest all the bs and simply address the fundamental issue like a you know a man that's all i want out of this a reasoned debate in public as to the substantive issues my history of postings clearly show that this is all i have ever wanted and the response including yours clearly show that i have gotten every manner of incivility in return and no manner of debate if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen if you can't support your position or engage in open debate then find something else to do with your life that goes for each and every one of you wikieditor