well that's the best reason of all not to include it the page was empty when i was editing yesterday along with others to the same site that this and related ips added i guess there was a glitch on the site since they are all now showing content i don't understand your point number i wasn't claiming it was a references the wikilink i provided was to our guidelines on external links which this site falls foul of being a newish open wiki without substantial editing history from many contributors and with no particular reputation on this subject we may not be great on all subjects but that doesn't mean we should be expanding those issues by creating a big association of untrustworthy pages as to removing other links from this page you may well be right i was not trying to push a pov by removing this one i was cleaning up after a campaign to spam wikipedia with links to this particular website so i wasn't looking at the links here as a whole i would encourage a clean out of other links that are not credible and to putting pov comments and sites in their appropriate context but i'm not sure i would know where to begin on a subject like this siobhanhansa