take a break from dates i'm sorry to see that greg is getting on your last nerve you know that there are people that understand and agree with your point so stop pushing it i know i'm not always able to follow that advice myself so i'm not trying to be holier than thou or condescending apologies if it comes across that way my inadvertently driving gerry away was a real eye opener for me i disagreed with him quite regularly but i never felt he was actively disruptive the same goes for pmanderson septrasomething who hasn't really contributed to the debate for a while the useless point counter point we're participating in with greg and tony is driving away all the people who might otherwise come to a reasonable conclusion or at least legitimize the debate if we weren't monopolizing things you've already suggested a wikibreak for the same group that i just did in fact it's partly what gave me the idea and i think we should just abide by it whether or not the other side does ryan and the other arbcom folk aren't stupid they'll see what's happened and hopefully give due weight to the opinions of people who have tried to act responsibly if not then is it really worth fighting for anyway cheers