hey jeff you seem to have missed the point entirely wikipedia's talk pages are for discussing the article and how it needs to be changed given that firefly is proving to be a failure at the box office by the well accepted formula of movie cost box office take i am suggesting we start formulating a way to add that to the article i mention my love of the movie only to avoid the fans who might try to pov push because they don't want to face the awful truth i would suggest you take more time to help with the discussion on what should be said here rather than pull out an unneeded and rather silly soap box we are talking about sourceable information jeff you just are not listening additional to say we can't mention our like or dislike of the film seems to suggest you think personal opinion can't be expressed on wikipedia talk pages well it can be expressed and it should be expressed we all have natural bias by talking about our opinions we help others to identify our bias making it easier to critique our additions furthermore wikipedia is a community and we're having fun i'm sorry you can't seem to handle that now what i'm trying to say is that we need to stop pov pushing on the article yes we're fans and we don't like to admit serenity flopped but the truth is it has my suggestion is we data mine other movies which have performed as poorly and use a similar language powwow