everyone is entitled to an opinion but that doesn't make an opinion correct ultimately i agree with wcm that this discussion has headed towards a pointless direction using either native or native born is standard in academic literature and i really don't care which of the two options are chosen also please remember that wikipedia is not a forum so please let's try to keep opinion based discussions to a minimum this is an academic setting even if somewhat informal and discussions should be primarily based on sourced evidence and not in passionate mis interpretations regards talk