josh the debate that i aggressively dismissed turned out to not exist i understand that i'm not going to get any apologies on that front but take that for what it's worth butterfly maybe my analogy wasn't apt but no one has addressed the fact that everyone calls it the ipod maybe we should look at articles about the ipod in reliable sources if it's commonly called the ipod we will call it that if it's commonly referred to as ipod then i will cede my point acceptable