about draft hi i like your opinion piece draft it's great in providing many quantifications of the promo commercial articles i like how you narrate your wikiproject poland experience and develop from that i like how you call for a major cleanup drive at the end though you ask the readers to go off separately and do a little bit towards solving the problem imo that is not enough and you've motivated something bigger a big cleanup drive but that should be a lot more maybe you should compare your proposal to the big drive to address un referenced biographies of living people urblp s a problem that was recognized more and more during and then blew up in controversy in january i think it was there was one editor deleting them by the hundreds i think which made others mad and wikipedia was hammered in the outside news coverage about some salient bad incidents the problem was addressed by a big drive with one element being wp urblp wikiproject's efforts that i happened to join the drive was well focused because there was a known number of unreferenced blps in a category to be addressed although there were new ones coming in and more old ones being discovered of course and that one editor agreed to back off if the number was reduced by half in six months that's my very imperfect understanding of the situation before i joined the drive i participated in worked well i tried to help keep focus on the goal and in several other ways but some others had far more direct impact than i did see wikipedia talk wikiproject unreferenced biographies of living persons archive goal statement every day we could see the current number and it moving or not and some big changes were made to reduce the number of new urblps coming in and some other targeted efforts were tried and some clearly made a difference while others did not overall having the big numeric public goal that we wanted to meet and having immediate feedback gratification in seeing the total category's number change was key it was rewarding and frustrating and a team effort going on etc not just a bunch of people working completely separately in the end the month goal was finally met though it was very close then i and some others dropped out but the overall problem had been somewhat solved and it's been better since and the number was brought all the way down to effectively and is at about now i see i'm not saying you should talk much or at all about that urblp problem and its drive in your opinion piece but i think your calling for accurate measurement of the current problem by a one month effort to get all of the problematic articles tagged say the same way would be reasonable there would have to be an enforceable rule made up that prevented the paid pr persons from deleting the tags on their articles there was something like that with the urblps i think anyone seen deleting the urblp tag was warned and blocked as disruptive if necessary and then you can call for something aggressive like bringing the real number down to tops within a year or whatever your estimating the problem size to be is helpful towards setting that up or you could call for something quite different my main reaction anyhow was that i expected at the end for you to call for something big asking people to separately make efforts that would not even be measurable would not be enough imo you've earned the right to call for a bigger more organized effort also i'm not sure spam is the right title you do clarify you don't mean external links spamming but that's what i think of what is the right name for this problem you have the opportunity to name it maybe perhaps some acronym business puff pieces by paid editors probably bppbpep nope the problem is talked about at talk jimbo wales and elsewhere though and there may be a good name for it already hope this helps my two or three cents i'll get to the other thing i owe but probably not until the weekend or next week ncram