vania-janet/multiturn-rag-retrieval-data huggingface dataset:
Gas stations have existed for 100 years. Automobile ownership has not increased by 10% year over year since before JFK was President.  EVs are growing so next summer when 1000s of Model 3s take summer road trips to Yellowstone or another popular destinations there will be dozens of gas stations able to service cars at 5 min per pump all day long. The Model 3s will overwhelm the superchargers and need 30 or more minutes per charger. Same for NFL stadiums that draw fans from 100 miles away so a game-time charge is desired. Road trips 2017 are going to be Hell on Earth and the S and X owners used to infrequent Mike inconveniences are going to freak out. Workplaces such as hospitals could install 3 chargers and handle the doctors and VPs needs. Now staff will roll up in 3s and park just like the doctors clogging up the charger all shift. Pop up some corn while the infrastructure catches up.
Economies of scale made it cheaper for Tesla to do it this way so they didn't have to pay for re-tooling to have a separate line making S60 batteries. And they figured a sizable fraction of the people would pay for the upgrade at some point anyways. They no longer offer the S60. S75 is the smallest Model S battery you can buy. So the range extension only affected a portion of the Tesla population but still a badass move on Teslas part, atta boy Elon
Tesla is not planning to sell 100k cars in 2015, they plan to have an annualized run rate of 100k by the end of 2015.  Also, the luxury market is pretty close to 50/50 between large sedans and SUVs, so Tesla figures they can sell as many SUVs as they can sell sedans, and they can almost certainly sell 50k sedans considering they're easily selling 35k without advertising whatsoever and with long wait times and barely having penetrated China or RHD markets.  Also, that 100k is worldwide, not just in the US.
Do you know petroleum prices hit such a low? In addition to shale, it is the fear of EVs. By encouraging electric vehicles, US not only put a huge dent to OPEC countries, but it is also leading the world in the next generation EV technologies. Guess what gets that? Exports. Cleaner air. Less money for terrorist countries. Continued dominance in newer technologies. So don't just look at what Tesla is getting. Look at what US is getting. Yeah, tesla being a beneficiary is just incidental. No one made those rules for tesla alone.
#####&amp;#009; ######&amp;#009; ####&amp;#009; [**Tesla Motors**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla%20Motors): [](#sfw) --- &gt; &gt;__Tesla Motors, Inc.__ is an American company that designs, manufactures, and sells [electric cars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car) and [electric vehicle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle) [powertrain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powertrain) components. Tesla Motors is a [public company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_company) that trades on the [NASDAQ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASDAQ) stock exchange under the symbol TSLA. In the first quarter of 2013, Tesla posted profits for the first time in its ten year history. &gt;Tesla Motors first gained widespread attention following their production of the [Tesla Roadster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster), the first fully electric [sports car](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car). The company's second vehicle is the [Model S](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S), a fully electric [luxury sedan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_sedan). &gt;Tesla also markets [electric powertrain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_powertrain) components, including [lithium-ion battery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery) packs to automakers including [Daimler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_AG) and [Toyota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota).
"Alright, I know a lot of people do see it as being wrong, and some have tried to pull a ""government motors"" sort of thing with Tesla, but it's really not correct to do so, so I tend to overreact a bit when I hear any suggestion that that be the case.  By the way, I should say that ""Elon says"" the government loan didn't save the company.  Maybe it did and he's just saying that for PR purposes, but he has been honest in the past about when the company has been near-death, so I'm willing to trust him on this one when he says this wasn't a near-death experience - especially after hearing the story of the Mercedes investment which Elon has told in a few interviews.  The Roadster did make money overall, but it was all spent on S development, as had been the plan all along (which is why Tesla didn't show a profit on the books, because it went into R&amp;D/capex).  The loan definitely helped make the S happen faster, but I feel it probably would have happened anyway, just maybe a year or two later or something.  I also do encourage you to drive one if you can, it's a great thing to try :-)"
That article was proven to be inaccurate because they did not account for a lot of factors. Here's a good article that summarizes their mistakes and poor assumptions. https://cleantechnica.com/2017/06/22/swedish-ev-battery-study-sucks/  It's ok to try to be fair but do it with accurate studies and good science.
Tesla is a horrible model in terms of sustainability.  It's just the electric version of a penis car* like a Ferrari.  It's battery is equivalent to over a 1000+ laptop batteries?  Where would we strip mine all that material if most people got one?  And his solar panel assembly must be either huge ass expensive or he doesn't drive much or use much electricity.  I always thought a series hybrid like Aptera would have been the way to go in this world toward sustainability.  *Family Guy.
New car prices being up is kinda misleading. New car sales (volume) is down pretty significantly because used car sales are up. This has pushed the average price of a new car down in order to compete with the used market. However, the price of an average new car is up because the people buying new cars are more likely to be buying a nicer one, as others just buy used.   As far as the second part of your last sentence...yeah...these 7 year loans on new OR used cars are fucking terrifying.
Interesting thought but I don't think it's going to play out like that. In city centers, you'll see a lot of automated cars, even mostly automated cars. But the suburbs and rural areas are still going to have plenty of gasoline vehicles with drivers for at least a few decades. There's too many interests propping up oil for them to just give up. EVs are and will continue to be more efficient but there's still capital costs involved. An old machine that's paid for will usually generate more profit than a financed new machine that's efficient.
Buying Used Buying a used car is the most affordable option, but for a given quality of car the reliability can be a significant potential pitfall. It can be very difficult for a non-professional to tell whether they are getting a good value. Additionally, it is hard for an owner who wants to sell a used car in excellent condition to get the true value of the car, and much easier for an unscrupulous seller to to get the market price by selling to an unaware buyer (the ""lemons"" problem in economics). You could buy an inspected car with a limited warranty from a retail seller like CarMax or a dealership, but you often pay a significant premium that cancels out much of the biggest reason to buy used - saving money. However, there is an opportunity to save money when buying used if you're willing to compromise on the condition of the car (if you don't care whether a car has hail damage, for example), or if you are able to wait until you find a motivated/distressed seller who needs to sell quickly and is willing to sell at a discount. If cost is your primary priority, buying a used car is likely the best option, but I would recommend the following in all circumstances: If the seller isn't willing to offer both of these, I would walk away. When buying used, you will also need to consider maintenance, which will vary significantly based on the make and model of the car as well as the condition, which is another risk you need to be willing to take on if you choose to buy used."
I worked in supply chain at one of Toyota's plants, and making cars is an incredibly difficult and daunting undertaking.  My hat goes off to Tesla and Elon Musk.  The odds are stacked against them: the big players have huge cash reserves and competing against them isn't easy. However my biggest concern is that Tesla base their very existence on the premise that electric will be *the* method of propulsion for future cars.  Hydrogen isn't out of the running yet, and if it ends up becoming feasible and suddenly becomes the preferred method of clean propulsion then Tesla will be blindsided, while the big car makers can simply start a new department for such engines.  They're flexible, Tesla is not.
I agree! Definitely not a black and white situation and there's a lot of factors.  Maintenance really isn't that big of a deal if it's done correctly. I've never had to replace an engine or transmission on a car younger than 40 or 50 years old. My 88 Chevy Blazer is still going strong and my girlfiends 56 oldsmobile still has original engine and tranny, not rebuilt.  I'd like to own a Tesla once it's feasible to drive 500+ miles at a time like a normal car.
&gt;If I have a 200-300 mile range EV, then the only time I ever have to worry about the inconvenience of charging up is on a cross country trip.  For the other 50 weeks of the year, I don't require the convenience of a gas station, other than to buy beer.   As long as you plan ahead... a lot of people like the feeling of security they get knowing they can pop into a nearby gas station on a whim &amp; get max range in a few minutes. Until they can do this with EVs, it will be a significant disadvantage in their eyes over gas-powered.
"This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://qz.com/1017457/there-is-a-point-at-which-it-will-make-economic-sense-to-defect-from-the-electrical-grid/) reduced by 79%. (I'm a bot) ***** &gt; A new study by the consulting firm McKinsey modeled two scenarios: one in which homeowners leave the electrical grid entirely, and one in which they obtain most of their power through solar and battery storage but keep a backup connection to the grid.  &gt; As daily needs for many are supplied instead by solar and batteries, McKinsey predicts the electrical grid will be repurposed as an enormous, sophisticated backup.  &gt; Solar panels and battery prices are dropping fast-lithium-ion batteries have fallen from $1,000 to $230 per kilowatt-hour since 2010-as massive new solar and battery factories come online in China and the US. By 2020, Greentech Media projects, homes and businesses will have more battery storage for energy than utilities themselves.   ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/6kchib/there_is_a_point_at_which_it_will_make_economic/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ ""Version 1.65, ~155595 tl;drs so far."") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr ""PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome."") | *Top* *keywords*: **grid**^#1 **battery**^#2 **utility**^#3 **solar**^#4 **McKinsey**^#5"
Its expected earnings are what people are valuing it at. They have built a huge demand by having superior previous models.  The true question is if they can replicate this on a large scale, and keep enough of the quality and perks of the previous models to maintain the demand.  If so you have the biggest shift in car manufacturing in the US market in a long long time. To be honest idk if they can remain at Tesla headquarters at the desired level of production but bringing production back to Detroit while cheap doesn't have the engineers and control that they have in California.
If it does happen I doubt it will be a rapid change. Just like electric cars one of the main hurdles will be getting infrastructure in place. Tesla has invested in a network of quick recharging stations around California, a Hydrogen based vehicle would similarly need Hydrogen fueling stations. Tesla and other competitors would have a lot of time to push out new designs.
Don't get all the hype about Tesla. They can't make a profit and they can't deliver their products on time and yet everyone has such high hopes for Musk and his vision. What am I missing?   Edit: Thank you for the replies. This is leading to some great discussion. (Although have to agree with some comments below that getting downvoted for raising reasonable business questions in a biz sub is frustrating.)   Adding a few things that still trouble me- Tesla burned through $1.2 billion in cash in the second quarter, almost double the $622 million it went through in the first quarter AND $2 billion spending is forecast for the second half of the year. Negative cash flow aside, a lot of the hype is focused on the Model 3. But how about cannibalization of Model S and X from Model 3?  There seems to be a somewhat fanatical following of Tesla and Musk but I do wonder if other carmakers that are ramping up their electric vehicles and self-driving R&amp;D and have their finances in order isn't a safer bet.
They make what people buy, although I, for one, absolutely loved my Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid. I hope the Taurus goes plug-in in time for my next car, otherwise I'll have to go with the SHO and waste all of that gasoline.  Chrysler has some beautiful cars, but you pay for that beauty by sacrificing reliability. And I'm not sure what's wrong at GM. They have some good quality cars these days, but the exterior design guys don't really excite. Some of the Cadillac and Buick offerings are not too bad, though.  It's not like the cars are being ignored; you're seeing more trucks and SUV's on the road because that's what so many people want.
"This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-26/the-market-will-kill-oil-before-the-government-does) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot) ***** &gt; Europe&amp;#039;s car market is set to undergo unprecedented changes over the next two decades, driven as much by economics as government policy.  &gt; In France too, more than 70 percent of new cars sold will come with a plug even without Macron&amp;#039;s new targets, the researcher said.  &gt; &amp;quot;Given the rate of improvement in battery and electric-vehicle technology over the last 10 years, by 2040 small-combustion engines in private cars could well have disappeared without any government intervention,&amp;quot; Alastair Lewis, a professor at the National Centre for Atmospheric Science at the University of York, said in an email.   ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/6pz2dv/the_market_will_kill_oil_before_the_government/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ ""Version 1.65, ~177227 tl;drs so far."") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr ""PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome."") | *Top* *keywords*: **Car**^#1 **oil**^#2 **new**^#3 **percent**^#4 **company**^#5"
You can come back in a few years and check, if you like. &gt;To keep the sucks putting up money. You mean, like an ACTUAL BATTERY COMPANY? The ones putting up the money? So, since your point was so reliant on ACTUAL BATTERY COMPANIES having expertise and specialization and so on, does that mean you're now dropping that point, because you realized your bullshit wouldn't fly, and moving on to another sort of bullshit until one of them sticks? Because if you'd like to fix your ignorance, I can help you with that. But if you wouldn't, as seems to be the case, it seems somewhat like a waste of time to continue trying to explain basic concepts to you."
Examining what’s behind the slide in used car prices, which are the foundation for an industry facing unprecedented challenges on the technology front, while sub prime delinquencies reach levels last seen in the great recession. With the help of industry analyst Daniel Ruiz and credit strategist Michael Lewitt, Grant Williams digs deep into the auto sector to see what the future holds and the likely impact for the US economy.
Dude it's not about being competitive. It has advantages in its own that no other car maker is currently doing. Sure, it's not the cheapest car on the market but it's • Fully electric. • Drives by itself (+$5000 autopilot which chevy doesn't even offer. STILL cheaper than chevy's upgrade which puts it at almost $42k). • Known for being the safest cars on the road. • And it's damn beautiful.  So even though you're not getting your bottom of the barrel deal, you get what you pay for.
Logically, that **should** be true and I'm certain that will be true eventually for the reasons you give. But since the engineers that designed Tesla have so little experience about the failure modes for electric vehicles, we can't really be too sure that will hold true for the electric vehicles being built today.
Do you have any electronic devices with rechargable batteries?  The science and understanding that lithium batteries degrade over time is very well known publicly.  It's not some secret or some corporate gooney conspiracy.  It's the limitations of the battery itself over time.  There are new batteries which show promise not to have this limitation but they are still in the research and development phase.
"GM could have developed electric cars - hey they had the Chevy Volt. Yet GM is now worth about the same as Tesla - a company that has only sold a tiny fraction of the cars GM has. Acquiring Cruise Automation was a good move but $1bi is not a lot of money for a company their size. I do not believe GM has the vision necessary to transform the auto industry. They are too entrenched in their existing business model.   Now my previous comment was a direct retort to Miller's comment saying ""to say you can be a full level five with just cameras and radars is not physically possible"". It is obviously physically possible, regardless of whether Tesla is full of shit or not."
"&gt; How can one not get it?  I dunno, you tell me.  &gt;You need to ask yourselves why the actual battery companies balked at building plants for his cars  See my other comment, because that doubly didn't happen.  Not only have ""the actual battery companies"" increased capacity for Tesla, but they're partnering in the plant.  Please attempt to be informed about the things you talk about before you talk about them.  *Or* don't go into the conversation acting informed when you are not."
Tesla isn't *that* new.    Their roadster has been around for more than 8 years.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster#History  8 Years is more than enough time to work out the bugs.   Given the price and all of the media hype, I'd expect the Model S to at least *match* the experience of owning a BMW or a Lexus.
Very few people will regularly ""need"" to charge en-route in something like a Bolt, Model 3 or Model S. Those very few people who routinely drive 300 miles in a day one-way, or roundtrip with very little stop at their destination with which they could charge, are a niche customer who does not need to be catered to at this moment in time. However, and I get this all the time, everyone on reddit thinks they're part of that niche. On a website full of people who talk about spending all their day on reddit, somehow these people get the time to spend driving 400 miles a day. Not saying you're doing that right now, but lots of people do it here. 95%+ of charge events will be normal, day-to-day charges where it takes no time, the ""on-the-go"" cases are few and far between. EV motorcycles are pretty reasonably priced, but it sounds like you've probably already done some research on them. Check out Zero if you haven't heard of them. Cool thing about them is the battery is small so you can charge it on 120v in a reasonable amount of time (overnight), and I've heard from motorcycle drivers that they even feel more safe on an EV because all those brain cycles you spend on shifting and clutching are freed up to spend on paying attention to the road which is full of cars that are trying to kill you. Also the Bolt is a fantastic car. Highly recommend it. edit: oh, and with your name, you should check out the Lightning LS218's results at Pike's Peak a few years ago. Beat the Ducati by 20 seconds ;-) https://www.wired.com/2013/07/lightning-pikes-peak-2013/"
So yes, changing the industry this dramaticallyAnd that would be great if they could get a car in they sub 20k class, and assuming the government continued to give energy credits for ev. Trump could shut that down (although why pick a fight with US auto makers?)   That said, the point of these announcements is to set the stage for infrastructure. Let the oil companies know that in 10 years they will lose half their auto market, so they need to migrate their investments to fleet and jet fuels, chemicals and power generation, diversify assets and investments, etc. Sucks but definitely survivable, but yes, they will fight so 2023 will be more like 2033. Next of course is electronic filling stations, which is where the oil companies really need to invest in, as well as gain investment in the power grid (which will also need to be ramped up, especially in rural areas, many of which were not even prepared for air conditioning in all residences). and of course you have battery technology, which requires lithium and other rare earth metals (or ideally new organic based alternatives) and the concerns with crash/explosion/fire and toxic spills... Gas is the devil we know, batteries on a mammoth scale and the environmental impact with the number of serious crashes we have...  So yes, don't get excited about what they are gonna do, but understand the implications of such an announcement.
Can someone explain to me the whole electric car thing? I mean how can they be green, batteries and short life cycle surely thats not environmentally sound long term. Added to that green energy is hardly common so really its just moving the source of the pollution no?  Obviously oil is unsustainable but does electric really make logistical sense?
&gt;The issue I had with it is long distances.  Well, you need fast-chargers to travel long distances.  Tesla has these  along all major highways.  For example, I make regular trips to Lake Michigan every summer, about a 250-mile trip.  There are two Superchargers on my route.  I will plan on hitting one of them.  But right now I have to plan on hitting a gas station along the way.  So it doesn't seem that different to me.  You're going to point out that takes longer than fueling with gas.  Yes it does,typically about a half-hour.  I accept this because I save so much fueling time for the rest of my driving, when I can fuel up at home.  You might not think that's a fair trade.  I do.  That's why I like EVs and you don't.