unimelb-nlp/MultiEup-v2 huggingface dataset:
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: René Repasi
Political group: S-D
Country: Netherlands
Language: EN

Let me please, first, take this opportunity to congratulate Commissioner Paolo Gentiloni on his birthday, being here with us in the room. Congratulations, happy birthday.  Now, to my question, I very much welcome the orientations that were presented by the Commission, coming up with a lot of good proposals, solving rules that are obviously not fit for purpose. And in particular this idea that we get an expenditure rule that has a corridor now between a debt reduction path and a 3 % deficit upper threshold. And in between we have open expenditure and that’s much better than the currently medium-term budgetary objective.  What I am wondering is, given the discussion that we’ve already had here on investment, is this corridor that is getting, of course, smaller and smaller the higher a country is indebted, irrespective of its individual path, is this sufficient given the need to mitigate the crisis and the expenses for the green transition ? And, having that in mind – I am referring also to the question that Irene Tinagli was asking on the 2015 flexibility communication, which was on the investment and structural reform clause – is it the intention of the European Commission to also look at expenditure beyond this expenditure rules, so the investment in the structural reform clause, and to allow further public investment that is then dedicated to the green transition under the preventive arm of the Stability and Growth Pact?
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Valdis Dombrovskis
Language: EN

But indeed, as you also outlined, there is a differentiation between high-debt countries and medium to low-debt countries in a sense. The further countries are from 60% of GDP debt level, which is referenced in the Treaty, the more effort we expect from those countries to adjust the debt. Because those fiscal sustainability concerns are also the ones which we need to take into account, especially now in a changing interest rate environment.  We see that the period of very accommodative monetary policy is coming to an end and there is a normalisation of monetary policy taking into account. This is reflected also in growing interest rates, something also which we need to consider when thinking of the right balance between debt sustainability and promotion of investment.  You mentioned a 2015 communication on best use of flexibility. At that time it was within the existing rules of the Stability and Growth Pact, as indeed are our investment and structural reform clauses. Well, now it’s also in a sense reflected with the possibilities of Member States to have more gradual debt adjustment paths, if they implement growth-enhancing and fiscal sustainability, improving investments and reforms.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: René Repasi
Political group: S-D
Country: Netherlands
Language: EN

To be one step more specific, an idea or an orientation in the paper that I found particularly interesting was introducing the relationship, or emphasizing the relationship, between the macroeconomic imbalance procedure and the fiscal rules. Here I am wondering to what extent expenditure that might be necessary to overcome macroeconomic imbalances has to be part of the expenditure rule or is taken outside the scope of the expenditure rule, because it is necessary that we get an equilibrium between the macroeconomic imbalances amongst the Member States.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Gunnar Beck
Political group: ID
Country: Germany
Language: DE

Sehr geehrte Herren Kommissare! Die Eurozone hat mit Großbritannien die höchste Inflationsrate und die schlechtesten Wachstumsdaten und -prognosen der entwickelten Welt. Schuld daran, so die Kommission und die EZB, sei nicht die EU-Wirtschafts- und -Geldpolitik, sondern unglückliche Umstände: Covid, der Ukraine-Krieg, das Klima etc. etc. Deshalb sollen jetzt die Schuldenabbau-Leitlinien für Mitgliedstaaten flexibilisiert werden, das heißt, Schulden sollen langsamer abgebaut werden und einstweilen mehr Schulden gemacht werden. Seit 2008 sind die Schulden der Mitgliedstaaten eskaliert, ohne Wachstumseffekt. Dennoch ist die Kommission zuversichtlich, mit mehr Schulden mehr Wachstum zu schaffen. Doch woher – meine Frage – nehmen Sie diese Gewissheit? Anders gesagt: Was haben Ihre Vorgänger und die nationalen Regierungen seit 2008, der großen Finanzkrise, falsch gemacht? Und was genau werden Sie jetzt richtig machen, was Ihre Vorgänger falsch machten? Immerhin waren Ihre Vorgänger sich genauso sicher wie Sie, mehr Wachstum mit mehr Schulden zu machen.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Paolo Gentiloni
Language: EN

Now we have to face a new crisis, and I think that this crisis is even more difficult to face than the previous one because we are facing it also with inflation. And for this reason, we are very cautious on fiscal expansion, fiscal stance, and we are suggesting fiscal neutrality to our Member States, which is very different from what we did after COVID.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Gunnar Beck
Political group: ID
Country: Germany
Language: EN

So, if I understand you correctly, you’re saying that more debt hasn’t exactly given rise to higher growth levels, but it’s kind of helped us to avoid the very worst. So could I infer from this that there’s something fundamentally wrong with the European Union now, that we can’t grow any longer and we’ve got to incur more debt just in order to defer, shall I say, the worst of all possible worlds?
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Paolo Gentiloni
Language: EN

And second, I think that we had an obvious increase of debt because of facing the COVID-19 crisis and what happened because of the COVID-19 crisis, so the lockdown, etc., etc., inevitably needed a universal response. If you have to support a large majority of companies, if you have to support jobs all over the countries, it is quite inevitable to have a higher level of debt. But this is not a recipe for our future. We are not proposing this emergency response to that crisis as the way forward, increasing debt to have growth.  To have growth, we need to invest in our priorities to strengthen European competitiveness, to confirm our leadership in the green transition. These actions will allow us to strengthen our growth. Look to our competitors at global level and we see that this competition is open, that we can play our role, that we are not so far from other competitors from this point of view.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Johan Van Overtveldt
Political group: ECR
Country: Spain
Language: NL

Voorzitter, budgettaire discipline blijft belangrijk. Sommigen lijken dat in de voorbije periode een beetje vergeten te zijn, maar het blijft belangrijk. De budgettaire situatie van de meeste landen in de schuldevolutie is van dien aard dat budgettaire discipline alleen niet meer zal volstaan om die situaties recht te trekken en onder controle te houden. Economische groei, volgehouden economische groei en natuurlijke economische groei, is daarvoor noodzakelijk en daarvoor zijn op hun beurt hervormingen noodzakelijk: ernstige hervormingen inzake arbeidsmarkt, inzake pensioenstelsels, inzake energiemarkten, inzake fiscaliteit en dies meer. In een aantal lidstaten, waaronder mijn eigen land België, is het gebrek aan dergelijke hervormingen nu al zeer problematisch. Mijn vraag is: hoe zwaar gaat de Commissie inzetten op die hervormingen? En is er een soort
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Valdis Dombrovskis
Language: EN

We know, for example, that currently there is a so-called 1/20 rule for debt reduction, but we also know that in practice, this rule is not really being applied. So we can continue to insist on 1/20 rule, which probably will continue not to be applied, or we can come forward with a different framework. So to give Member States more leeway for them to devise their own fiscal structural funds with their own debt—reduction pathways, of course, not giving carte blanche to Member States – because another element that is important is equal treatment of Member States. So we will be providing, based on a common European methodology, each country with a reference debt—reduction pathway, so that all countries will be able to see and compare what reference each Member State should be achieving, and then Member States can come with their fiscal structural plans, taking these reference values into account. Indeed, there is a lever also concerning the structural reforms. We are already discussing that if Member States are implementing investments and structural reforms which improve growth prospects, which improve fiscal sustainability, then Member States can have more gradual debt—adjustment trajectories.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Johan Van Overtveldt
Political group: ECR
Country: Spain
Language: EN

Do the Commissioners think that they have sufficient instruments at their disposal to intervene to hurt countries that do not live up to what has been agreed upon, in terms of deficits as well as in terms of structural reforms?
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Valdis Dombrovskis
Language: EN

Probably what is closer to what’s come out of this in practice is that it became too unattractive to apply fiscal rules. So, therefore, we on one hand propose that we actually go for lower and more elastic financial sanctions. So there is a trade—off, in which we are providing Member States with more leeway to set up their own debt reduction trajectories and this comes with stricter enforcement. So, for example, it means, kind of by default, starting excessive deficit procedures from a debt—based excessive deficit procedure for countries whose debt exceeds 60% of GDP and who are deviating from the adjustment path.  It also means that since we are now discussing, medium—term, Member States’ plans, that we will be also assessing cumulative deviations. Because what we see now, often countries do just a little bit less than they should be doing. Then it’s always a big dilemma. Do we now create a big problem out of this or do we somehow let it go? But if a country, year after year after year, errs in the same direction, we see that, cumulatively, the country is deviating and we can also apply these corrective measures.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: José Gusmão
Political group: The Left
Country: Finland
Language: PT

Senhor Comissário, a Comissão agita com a flexibilização de algumas regras que se tinham demonstrado claramente impraticáveis e, portanto, o verdadeiro saldo desta nova proposta é a agilização e até a introdução de sanções, nomeadamente aquelas que ficam associadas às recomendações no âmbito do Semestre Europeu. Ou seja, essas recomendações vão deixar de ser apenas recomendações para passarem a ser imposições.  Ora, como muitas das recomendações que a Comissão Europeia tem feito ao longo dos tempos dizem respeito à redução da despesa com pensões, à redução da despesa com serviços públicos, à desregulação do mercado de trabalho – tudo isto competências dos Estados-Membros –, gostava de saber como é que a Comissão Europeia compatibiliza o respeito pelas competências nacionais, que decorre dos Tratados, com a ideia que tem sido propagandeada de que esta nova forma de governação económica terá maior respeito pelas opções democráticas dos governos nacionais.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Paolo Gentiloni
Language: EN

But the common rules that we have are not realistic and not implementable, I think that this is more or less what we all understand and share, the decision of having this threshold of 60%. But, of course, we are not changing because we are not changing the Treaties. But in itself this decision was understandable. It was the average debt of the country signing the treaties. It was not a Nobel Prize idea, this 60%, okay. We learned in these ten, 15 years that this rule of reaching the 60% is not implementable. We try a balance. Why? The balance is important because the path of reduction of the debt, the means, the priorities are proposed by Member States and not imposed by the Commission or a rule. And in this case, if you have this what we call ‘ownership’, this stronger role for national politics, you can also ask to implement these rules because you are implementing the rules that your government, your parliament, have decided, not that someone imposed from afar to you. This is the deal, and the balance we have to find.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: José Gusmão
Political group: The Left
Country: Finland
Language: PT

Senhor Comissário, falou da evolução do défice e da dívida que, como sabemos, depende da evolução da despesa, mas também da receita. E, portanto, gostaria de perceber porque é que a Comissão opta por utilizar apenas como variável operacional a despesa pública primária líquida. Porque esta opção tem um enviesamento recessivo. Foi a opção, por exemplo, dos programas da Troica, que tiveram consequências desastrosas, não apenas no crescimento dos países afetados mas também na evolução do défice e da dívida. E é também um enviesamento ideológico, porque se torna num instrumento contra os serviços públicos, contra o investimento público, contra as políticas públicas em geral. E gostaria de saber a razão desta escolha tão parcial.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Paolo Gentiloni
Language: EN

The problem is that now we have several criteria in assessing the plans and one of these is the primary net expenditure. The advantage of this kind of rule is simplification and it is clearly observable. It is, of course, net of expenditure. Several expenditure are not included in this calculation to prevent it from being too procyclical. Of course, we will consider extreme extraordinary conditions both at European level and at national level. We are not following this rule with blind eyes. No, we are following it because it is simple, observable and, honestly, the other benchmarks that we used in the last 10 to 20 years where, if we look to them ex-post, they were a little bit, honestly, not always fit for purpose because they were based on projections, and projections are difficult in economy. The evolution of the expenditure is a good and transparent tool to observe the evolution of the budgetary situation. Of course, this means that also we have to preserve the capacity to invest, because you are right that the trajectory of the debt is strongly dependent also on growth. We are not ignoring at all these points.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Stéphanie Yon-Courtin
Political group: Renew
Country: Latvia
Language: FR

Joyeux anniversaire, Commissaire Gentiloni, Messieurs les Commissaires, à ce stade, les orientations de la Commission européenne vont dans le bon sens. Nous devons à la fois assurer la stabilité budgétaire et permettre la flexibilité nécessaire pour investir dans les objectifs de l’Union européenne qui ne peuvent plus attendre: les transitions verte et numérique et l’autonomie stratégique. Il s’agit donc de sortir d’une pure logique comptable pour passer à un pacte véritablement politique capable de s’adapter à la réalité des crises et des défis à relever par les États membres.  Le seul objectif annuel de réduction de la dette ne correspondait donc plus à la réalité des faits. La stabilité budgétaire se fera donc avec le consentement des États membres, de leurs peuples et en adéquation avec les objectifs que nous nous sommes fixés. L’approche personnalisée pour chaque État membre, qui devra indiquer comment il compte tenir son déficit et sa dette publique, sera aussi très importante.  Ma question est la suivante: comment en parallèle repenser et assurer, concrètement, nos indicateurs de suivi de nos politiques pour prendre davantage en compte les dimensions climatique, sociale et d’autonomie?
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Valdis Dombrovskis
Language: EN

Of course, as I was mentioning before, it's important that it's within a common European framework. So that's why we are coming with those reference adjustment pass for each Member State based on a common European methodology. But then it's for Member States to come up with their fiscal structural plans and do some adjustments, including adjustments if they implement reforms and investments which are growth-enhancing, supporting fiscal sustainability, and also responding to common European priorities, including the green and digital transition, strengthening the resilience of the European economy, reaching the strategic aims of the EU.  So all of this is already reflected in the orientations which we are providing. And of course the way we are applying fiscal rules is to be seen also in a broader context, for example, of European Semester, where we are taking this broader approach, also looking at our strategic work directions, looking at sustainable development goals, other elements. So we are not just looking at, one or two or three figures, there is this broader approach, not all of those elements are in our orientations. But if you look at the broader approaches you are having in European Semester and by the way, exactly today we are presenting the autumn European Semester cycle. Clearly, we are taking this wider view.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Stéphanie Yon-Courtin
Political group: Renew
Country: Latvia
Language: FR

Sur l’approche personnalisée pour chaque État membre, qui nous semble plus réaliste: jusqu’à quel degré de personnalisation, d’individualisation faut-il aller? Parce qu’il faut en même temps assurer une cohérence de ces différents programmes économiques nationaux pour éviter – et vous l’avez dit – une fragmentation du marché intérieur.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Valdis Dombrovskis
Language: EN

So also there, I would say there will be some margin of appreciation also for the European Commission when assessing Member States’ fiscal structural plans, whether it’s close enough to the orientations which we are providing. At the end of the day, those fiscal structural plans are to be approved by the Council. So Member States will also be able to sort of do peer-to-peer control and see whether all Member States are getting equal treatment and whether the rules, including this additional leeway, are applied in a consistent way across the board.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Enikő Győri
Political group: NI
Country: Luxembourg
Language: HU

Tisztelt Elnök úr! A reformok akkor jók, ha hatékonyak, kézzelfogható eredményt hoznak, és kevesebb terhet jelentenek. Én úgy ítélem meg, hogy a gazdasági kormányzás reformjával kapcsolatosan egyelőre több a kérdés, mint a válasz. Kérdezem, hogy mi a garancia arra, hogy az adósság-fenntarthatósági számítások megalapozottak lesznek, és hoznak-e egyszerűsítést? Kérdezem, hogy mi a garancia arra, hogy a beruházások és reformok végrehajtásának ellenőrzésére létrehozandó új eszköz segítségével a gazdasági és adósság-fenntarthatósági hatást majd megalapozottan tudjuk értékelni? És kérdezem, mint olyan képviselő, aki nem az euróövezet egyik országából érkezik, hogy a túlzottdeficit-eljáráshoz hogyan viszonyul majd ez az új eszköz?
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Paolo Gentiloni
Language: EN

Were we effective in the last 10/20 years? I think we were effective in more or less one single thing, which was this 3 % threshold for the deficit. This was clear, understandable and, not always, but more or less respected. And it was a good leeway. Were we effective in the reduction of debt? No, honestly, we had this very ambitious 60 % debt rule, but not effective. Were we affect the on the quality of public expenditure investments? Well, we were not. After the financial crisis, unfortunately, public investment was going down and down.  So the fact that now we have a more realistic path of reduction of the debt and an incentive for investment, in our view, should work or at least it could work.
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Enikő Győri
Political group: NI
Country: Luxembourg
Language: HU

Hát kívánom, hogy Önnek igaza legyen, és csodálója vagyok Gaudi építészetének. De félek attól, hogy ez nem ad kellő garanciát arra, hogy kevesebb legyen a teher. Megköszönöm, ha kapok az előző kérdésemre választ, hogy ez a beruházások és reformok végrehajtásának ellenőrzésére szolgáló új eszköz hogyan fog viszonyulni a túlzottdeficit–eljáráshoz a nem euróövezeti országok érdekében? És hát van még egy olyan félelmem, hogy vajon nem válik-e túlzottan szubjektívvé ez az egész eljárás? A Bizottság hatásköre, az láthatóan megnövekedne. És kérdezem, hogyan várja el így a Bizottság, hogy a tagállamok jobban magukénak érezzék az egész eljárást?
Debate: Question Time  - Future legislative reform of the Economic Governance Framework in times of social and economic crisis
Date: TUESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2022
Speaker: Paolo Gentiloni
Language: EN

The balance – and it will be very challenging and interesting to find this balance – is that this differentiated approach needs to be compatible with a common framework, and this is why we will provide a common reference at the start of the process. Reference does not mean prescription, it means a reference, meaning that the Member States will elaborate their own plans, taking into account this reference.  So I think the national role could be strengthened and this is a guarantee of effectiveness. I don’t think that we will change substantially the differences that are there between euro area and non—euro area Member States in this framework.