Debate: This is Europe - Debate with the Taoiseach of Ireland, Micheál Martin
Date: WEDNESDAY, 8 JUNE 2022
Speaker: Martin Micheál
Language: EN

The honourable Member Frances Fitzgerald made a number of key points, not least on the transformative impact of European Union membership in Ireland, and particularly on women in Ireland, over the last 50 years. Also, you made a key point in relation to enlargement. I think you posed the question that if we say to countries ‘we want you to join’ and are opening the door, why does it take so long? My own view is that the enlargement process has taken far too long, and I think we need to have a fundamental reflection on this.  We were with the Western Balkans before Christmas last, and there is no reason why North Macedonia and Albania should not be members of the European Union now. In my view, we have to accelerate the process. We have to make a fundamental call as a Union, in terms of enlargement.  My own personal view, coming from where we are coming from – Ireland in 1973 – is that it has been transformative. There is no point in saying anything else. Because of that, I always feel it very difficult to put a barrier up against another country that wishes to join and that fulfils the criteria. That would be our view. We don’t think politics should get in the way, that localised or regionalised issues should get in the way of a country being allowed to join. I think it’s a key question. It’s a fundamental point that we should all reflect on.  The next issue was two points, from Pedro Marques I think, in relation to, first of all, the Protocol. You asked me to elaborate. I don’t think I have the time to elaborate fully, but what I would say is that if there was a Nobel Peace Prize for patience, Maroš Šefčovič would win hands down. I want to thank him for the role that he has played. But to say fundamentally where it’s at, is that Unionist politicians have raised legitimate questions, you know, issues around the operation of the Protocol, and we believe, the European Union, believes that it can resolve these issues.  But the fundamental question remains as to what the British Government’s ultimate position is. That’s why I referred in my opening address to the absence of political will. I just simply do not detect a sustained political will on behalf of the UK Government to settle this and resolve this, because it without question can be resolved. The more fundamental concern I have is on the overall stability of the architecture of the Good Friday Agreement and the spirit that informs that. I said earlier, you know, that it took a lot of work from a lot of people to get the Good Friday Agreement over the line, and therefore we should all be very, very careful in doing anything that could undermine that. I feel the UK Government is not giving due consideration to the totality of what’s involved in the Good Friday Agreement. On tax competition, again Ireland was very constructive and cooperative in terms of the OECD process, and we signed up to that. As a country, we continue to engage at international level in all fora in relation to tax issues. But the more fundamental issue that we find now in terms of foreign direct investment coming into Ireland is the talent question. Most companies are in search of talent or ability and so on.  That speaks to the question of migration that a colleague also spoke about and questioned, asserted that there was an amnesty in Ireland. There’s no amnesty in Ireland, but we do believe that if the undocumented are undocumented for a long period of time, they need to have their lives regularised, to have their lives resolved and become full citizens of Ireland. That’s what we’re doing.  I just would make the point in terms of the question around migration that the reason President Biden is President of the United States is because of an enormous migratory trail from Ireland to the United States after the famine and throughout the 19th century. We are the last country to start condemning migration or to take a very narrow perspective on migration, and that is our position on that.  One of the transformative things in Ireland today is the multiculturalism of modern Ireland, that so many citizens have come from within Europe and beyond Europe to live in Ireland. I was taken by what Philippe said earlier that there is still that generosity of spirit in Ireland, and that engagement, and long may that continue. We have to work at that. There are always challenges around that, and I take on board the nice comments you made in terms of humility and gravitas and so on – although the city I come from in Ireland, people don’t normally associate us with humility or modesty, but that’s an internal Irish matter! I do take your point on climate change. It’s about delivery now. We have passed the legislation. I think what we have done though is put the template in place and the foundations for fundamental change into the future. The real challenge is delivery and really getting political consensus on delivery. I am passionately committed to this, and to the restoration of biodiversity as well. We’ve a journey to travel, but we’re committed to doing it and the legal framework is in place.  If I say so, offshore wind will be a very big development in Ireland over the next decade or so and we will be a net exporter of energy in the mid—2030s because of the fact that we have a lot of wind around our coast, with seas seven times the land mass of Ireland. In terms of Stéphane’s point on the Conference on the Future of Europe, we are very open – and I’m very open to the idea of treaty change on the basis of the enlargement question. If we enlarge, we have to work out how we manage and operate the Union more efficiently and more effectively. We can’t operate with all the rules as the Union enlarges itself. So we’re very much in favour of really pursuing that particular issue and being open to change in terms of how we do things within the Council, the Parliament’s right to initiative and so forth.  I would have a strong belief in public health, for example. I was a former Minister for Health. I witnessed how in every domain every nationalist said we can’t allow our health systems or whatever to be the competency of, or to move to Europe, and so on. But, as we saw during the pandemic, public health, as a discipline within the broader health arena, really is a European competency.  The HERA initiative and all of that is essential to the future of public health across Europe. When I was a Minister for Health, there was no chance of procuring vaccines. Not a chance. It was so discordant and so forth. So to me it was a marvel to see Europe procure vaccines, enable the production of vaccines, and become the largest donor of vaccines in the world, for which the European Union doesn’t get credit. It is the largest donor, and the most consistent donor of vaccines.  In terms of the energy transition, and I think Marco Zanni made the point in relation to the geopolitical situation and ties to China, the war on Ukraine is causing us all to reflect very deeply on how we develop relationships into the future, how we maintain them in terms of the rule of law, values and democracy. I think there’s going to be a period of forward reflection in terms of how we engage with others who also transgress the fundamental values in our system.  I think I’ve dealt with the migration issue. Suffice to say that we need to work much harder on climate change, on a whole range of issues, to reduce the necessity for migration and to enable sustainability within many countries in the neighbourhood of Europe and in Africa in terms of economic sustainability, social sustainability, climate sustainability. That’s ultimately the way that we have a proper balanced approach to these issues. In relation to Chris MacManus’s point, again I was at the Council of Europe yesterday, met with the Secretary—General, also visited the European Court of Human Rights, which has a strong resonance for Ireland because of our history and because of the work it did in terms of Northern Ireland, and also in the Airey case, for example, which was fundamental in terms of access to legal aid, not just for Ireland but for the entirety of Europe in terms of that decision, and also the Norris case and LGBTQ rights, and the Louise O’Keeffe case. So we have a strong affinity with that.  Again, what was interesting is that the United Kingdom Government has nothing to fear from the European Court of Human Rights. In fact, it has one of the lowest number of cases against it. It seems to be very determined to create problems where problems don’t really exist. So we’re very committed to that, and again, on a more general level, in terms of tolerance of any violation of human rights, we are very strong on human rights as a country. We want to be and we will continue to play our part at European Union level in advancing and human rights.  I want to thank you all very much for your contributions. It has been a privilege and an honour for me to address you as Taoiseach, and I look forward to engaging with you in the time ahead.