https://www.netnuus.com/90c6c921-dca4-4 ... ccbd515fe9
Dis al wat daar staan
stem met jou,hulle het ook vir my gese my bevoegdheid het verval
As jy die wit bevoegdheids kaartjie gehad het, sal hy verval. Hy word hernu met 'n bevoegdheids sertifikaat wat nie 'n verval datum op het nie.
Ek deel net van facebook af:
EK POST SOOS VAN SAGA ONTVANG:
Expired Firearm Licences - Proceedings in Parliament on the 14th June 2018
SAGA trustees, John Welch and Damian Enslin, attended on the Parliamentary session of the Portfolio Committee on Police (PCoP) this morning, the 14th June 2018. One of the aspects discussed was the recent Constitutional Court decision which was handed down on the 7th June 2018, as well as the Firearm Amnesty.
With respect to the Firearm Amnesty, it appears that this is not on the near horizon and according to the National Commissioner, General Sithole, the two processes are completely separate, that is the process in dealing with the Constitutional Court decision on expired firearm licences will be dealt with separately to the Firearm Amnesty process, if and when the Firearm Amnesty proceeds.
The National Commissioner, was at pains to emphasise the fact that SAPS would not be treating anyone with a firearm with an expired licence as a criminal and SAPS required everyone’s co-operation.
There were various questions put to the National Commissioner and SAPS, by the Members of the PCoP and some of the Members enquired with the National Commissioner about the possibility of issuing Section 21 permits to persons who are in possession of firearms with expired licences.
However the National Commissioner and General Masemola (the Head of Visible Policing) were not prepared to give a finite answer as to whether Section 21 permits would be issued.
The National Commissioner requested the co-operation of all parties when the Directive, which is apparently due to tomorrow, is released.
The National Commissioner as well as General Masemola advised that they will be engaging with stakeholders throughout the process and will assess the process in 3 months’ time and 6 months’ time, respectively.
Once more, SAPS emphasised that they do not want to arrest people for being in possession of a firearm with an expired licence and that there will be a process going forward.
Further questions were put to the National Commissioner and General Masemola by the Members of the PCoP pertaining to whether SAPS had the capacity and administrative means to deal with the influx of upwards of 400 000 persons surrendering firearms, and whether these firearms would be secured. These concerns were not really adequately addressed by SAPS in our view.
The National Commissioner confirmed that the old / green licence cards issued in terms of the Arms and Ammunition Act 2 of 69 was still valid.
The National Commissioner also confirmed, that although a Firearm Amnesty had been pronounced by the Minister, this however excluded the Judgment of the Constitutional Court on expired firearm licences.
Our members may recall that one of the aspects of the Firearm Amnesty was the inclusion of those with expired firearm licences and now it appears that this will no longer be the case.
SAGA should know the content of the Directive tomorrow and we will provide further analysis in due course.
Al het hy nie 'n vervaldatum op nie, is hy beslis nie geldig vir ewig nie. Die geldigheidsduur word bepaal deur die wysigingswet, wet 28 van 2006. Die wet is egter lomp omskryf en word deur almal, polisie ingesluit, op verskillende maniere ge-interpreteer. Hernu maar eerder te vroeg as te laat.
Alwin - solank as wat jy jou wit kaartjie lisensies betyds hernu, is die bevoegdheids sertifikaat geldig. Bring jou kant en hy verval nie - dis hoe my DFO verduidelik het. Hy mag dalk verkeerd wees, maar dit maak sin vir.
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:15 am
Weer verskillende interpretasies Dawie.
Ek moes self ook my competency hernu met my laaste aansoek vir hernuwing ten spyte dat ek lisensies het wat eers in 2023 verval.
Soos ek gesê het, baie verskillende interpretasies.
Ons moet onthou dat baie van die ouens wat nou met vervalde lisensies sit in die situsie beland het a.g.v. hulle DFO se advies.
Gewoonlik, as jy wil hernu (of 'n nuwe aansoek indien) gaan hulle van jou verwag om ook jou bevoegdheid te hernu. Sou jy versuim en jou aansoek word afgekeur weens "vervalde bevoegdheid", dan mis jy ook die sperdatum vir hernuwing. Vat maar die kans as jy wil...
My wit lisensies het verval in 2011, toe ek aansoek doen om hulle te hernieu, het ek ook my competency (wit kaartjie, wat ook toevallig in 2011 verval het) hernieu, die nuwe competency sertifikaat wat toe aan my uitgeriek is, is op 'n stuk karton gedruk, slegs met datum van uitreiking, geen verval datum daarop nie.
Ek het dit, en volgens my plaaslike DFO ook, dat die nuwe competency sertifikaat verval met die lisensie wat die laaste verval.
My interpretasie is dat solank ek my lisensies betyds hernieu, en hulle toegestaan word, bly my competency sertifikaat geldig.
Enige regsgeleerdes se opinie hieroor?
Ek het selfde erfaar met my cz75 pistool wat ek moes hernu, pistool comp is 5 jaar geldig, maar is weer vir 5 jaar hernu omdat my pistool lisensie hernu is, so nie regs kennes nie, maar praktiese ondervinding.
Ek het nou dieselfde ondervind met my Art13 hernuwing.
Ek sou wel voorstel, stel jou herinnering so 150 dae voor die verval datum. Dan gaan jy na die DFO en vra of jou bevoegtheid reg is jy gaan jou hernuwing een van die dae inbring.
Nuus van SAGA. Verskoon as daar diplukasie is. Ek stuur maar aan soos ek dit kry.
SAGA Trustees, John Welch and Damian Enslin, attended the Parliamentary session of the Portfolio Committee on Police (PCoP) on 14th June 2018. The recent Constitutional Court decision handed down on the 7th June 2018 and the Firearm Amnesty were discussed.
With respect to the Firearm Amnesty, it appears that this is not on the near horizon and according to the National Commissioner, General Sithole, the two processes are completely separate i.e. the process in dealing with the Constitutional Court decision about expired firearm licences will be dealt with separately to the Firearm Amnesty process, if and when the Firearm Amnesty proceeds.
The National Commissioner, was at pains to emphasise the fact that SAPS would not be treating anyone with expired licences as a criminal and all they wanted was everyone’s co-operation.
There were various questions put to the National Commissioner and SAPS by the Members of the PCoP and some of the Members enquired with the National Commissioner about the possibility of issuing Section 21 permits to persons who are in possession of firearms with expired firearm licences. However the National Commissioner and General Masemola (the Head of Visible Policing) were not prepared to give a finite answer as to whether Section 21 permits would be issued.
What they did ask for, was for the co-operation of all parties when the Directive, which is apparently due today, is released.
The National Commissioner as well as General Masemola advised that they will be engaging with stakeholders throughout the process and will assess the process in 3 months and 6 months respectively.
Further questions were put to the National Commissioner and General Masemola by the Members of the PCoP about whether SAPS had the capacity and administrative means to deal with the influx of upwards of 400 000 persons surrendering firearms, and whether these firearms would be secured. This was not really adequately addressed by SAPS.
The National Commissioner confirmed that the old / green licence cards issued in terms of the Arms and Ammunitions Act 2 of 1969 are still valid.
We should know the content of the Directive today and will keep everyone updated with respect to this very important situation.
I have just received the directive from the National Police Commissioner irt the Constitutional Court Ruling on the white firearm licences.
All 400 000 to 450 000 firearm owners with white licences are now instructed to take their firearms to their nearest SAPS Station for destruction.
It was stated in the Police Portfolio Committee yesterday - after being asked four times - that as these firearms are now deemed illegal, the owners may not now apply for a firearm licence.
So...it appears that the disarming of these civilians, as called for by COSATU in the same committee on Wednesday, has begun.
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:43 pm
Die manne wat hierdie saak verloor het is idiote.
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:54 pm
Dis maar bietjie onregverdig daai Meteor, ons grondwet waarborg nie dat ons wapens mag besit nie, om wapens te besit is maar net 'n voorreg in ons land, niks meer nie.
As 400 000 mense net hul wapens lisensieer het toe hulle moes dan was hulle nie nou in die bootjie nie.
Messor die rede hoekom ek so se is omdat ek voel jy word onwettig onteien van jou eiendom. Die grondwet se jy mag eiendom besit en nes met karre mag jy ook gewere besit maar nie gebruik sonder sekere voorskifte. Nou word jy ontneem van daai eiendom sonder vergoeding omdat jy nie die vereistes voldoen...nie soos karre. Besit en gebruik is twee dinge. As die wet gese het jy mag dit verkoop of hou in onbruikbare toestand sou dit saamstem met die grondwet.
Meteor, ek hoor jou.
Maar onthou nou ons praat hier van 400k - 450k wapens.
As dit 'n duisend was, dan sou ek gesê het die arme mense het vergeet om hul lisensies te hernu, dis menslik. Maar 450 000, dit sê vir my en die regters hierdie mense het nie vergeet nie, hulle verontagsaam bloot die wet.
As jy 'n regter is, sal jy lenient wees met mense wat bloot net die wet verontagsaam?
Ek voel vir ons mede vuurwapen eienaars, maar ek begin ook al meer voel hierdie was ons eie toedoen. As jy werk met mense wat jou wapens wil vegvat moet jy eerstens jou kant skoon hou, het ons?
As soveel andersins wetsgehoorsame bugers besluit om 'n wet te verontagsaam, kan enigiemand beweer dat die wet nog redelik is?
Ek het wel my bedenkinge oor die getalle, sal graag wil sien waar dit vandaan kom. Sover ek kan bepaal is dit bloot net 'n wilde raaiskoot. Maar daar is vir seker baie, waarskynlik meer as 100 000.
Onthou ook dat die CFR onlangs weer 'n klomp data verloor het. Hou anders verklaar jy dat baie mense, toe hulle wou hernu, agterkom dat hulle wapens op die CFR stelsel nog op 'n handelaar se naam is? Hulle het dus geen idee wat aangaan en wie watter wapens het nie.
Gg'n wonder hulle wil almal ingehandig hê nie, want die goed maak net vir hulle werk en kopsere...
Nee ek glo nie die wet is redelik nie, maar jy kan hom nie net ignore nie.
Net soos ek ook nie van die huidige petrol prys hou, waarvan die helfde belasting is nie, maar ek het nie 'n ander keuse as om hom te betaal nie.
Death and taxes, and the FCA
Alwin, die wet irriteer my ook, en ek dink dit is n enorme mors van fondse en tyd, maar as oortreding van n wet deur die massas n maatstaf is van die betrokke wet se redelikheid, is daar weinig wette wat redelik is. Dit begin by basiese verkeerswette, munisipale bywette, etc etc.
Dis maar n geval van “pick your battles”, en ek dink nie ons het ons self gehelp in die groter prentjie deur soveel ou lisensies nie te hernu of nuwes te laat verval nie.
Meteor, hier is eenvoudig geen waarheid in hierdie stelling nie. Daar is hordes goed waarvan jy nie in besit mag wees sonder die nodige voorgeskrewe voldoendes nie, hetsy dit plofstof, sekere wapens, sekere medikasie of dwelms, fauna en flora, of wat ook al is nie. Die wet is duidelik daaroor en of jy daarvoor betaal het of nie het geen invloed nie. Stel jou voor jy is wettig in besit van plofstof vir gebruik op n myn. Indien jou papierwerk verval en jy jou besigheid verkoop mag jy nie die plofstof in jou garage hou oor jy dit n jaar terug wettig gekoop het nie. Ditto vir n boer wat sy renosters se horings in sy kluis wil hou.
Dis al wat ek hieroor gaan sê:
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:31 pm
Messor, ek sal graag jou kommentaar op die volgende wil hoor:
Die persone met groen lisensies het geensins GEPOOG om aan die nuwe wet van 2000 te voldoen nie; tog is hulle lisensies nog geldig?
Alwin, wat vir my onregverdig is, is dat ek vir 'n feit weet dat mense se lisensies wat tot 'n jaar en langer as myne verval het wel hernu is. Ek het 51 weke na hernuwingsdatum aansoek gedoen (my fout)en is 3 jaar later in kennis gestel dat dit afgewys is. Ek was vas onder die indruk dat daar, soos gewoonlik, chaos by die CFR was en sou beslis her-aansoek gedoen het as die weiering vroeër was. Daar is ook vanaf verskillende bronne vir my gesê om te wag.