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Telefoonnummer: +1 727-823-6603 SA Military Intelligence > Browse > An interview with Henk Heslinga regarding the interviewee's involvement in the Goldstone Commission's investigations, 1992.
Date of interview: 5 October 2009
Length of interview: 5 minutes 36 seconds
Name of interviewee/s: Director Henk Heslinga
Audio file name/s of interview: AL3283_PTA_HESLINGAHENK_20091005_2
De Wet	Ek sit hier saam met direkteur Henk Heslinga, voormalige hoof van Pretoria se moord-en-roofafdeling. Dit is Maandag 5 Oktober 2009 in Centurion. Henk jy was destyds betrokke gewees by die Goldstone-kommissie se ondersoek. Kan jy net vir ons verduidelik. Eintlik sê net vir my van wanneer tot wanneer was jy daar en wat was jou rol daar gewees.
Ja, ek was vir twee en ŉ half jaar verbonde aan die Goldstone-kommissie. As ek reg kan onthou in 1992 toe ek by Soweto moord-en-roof bevorder is tot luitenant-kolonel is ek verplaas na hoofkantoor om deel te vorm van die onlus- en geweldsmisdaad-lessenaar en toe ek so maand daar was toe kom roep gen. Van der Westhuizen my en sê daar is ŉ regter met die van Goldstone en hy moet nou ŉ kommissie begin.
Hulle soek ŉ polisieman wat die swart gebiede ken en kennis het van moord en soek ŉ speurder of ek sal belangstel want dit gaan net vir drie maande wees.
Ek het toe geen probleem gehad en ek is toe aan regter Goldstone voorgestel en ek is toe oorgeplaas na regter Goldstone toe, maar toe begin ons ondersoeke so uit te brei dat ek moet later lasbriewe uitvoer, verklarings neem en opdragte uitvoer en dagvaardigings dien in die naam van die Goldstone-kommissie en volgens die wet kon dit net lede van department van justisie wees.
Ek is toe amptelik gesekondeer aan departement van justisie en volgens die wetgewing was ek toe aangestel as ŉ komiteelid van die Goldstone-kommissie wat my toe die magte gegee het vir visenterings en diening van dagvarings.
De Wet	In my boek Total Onslaught het jy die eerste keer onthul dat jy, terwyl jy by die Goldstone-kommissie was, was jy inderdaad ŉ dubbel-agent gewees. Kan jy net vir ons verduidelik hoe dit gewerk het en die omstandighede, en wat jou rol was daar.
Henk	Ja, ek was destyds ingeroep deur die speurhoof, gen. Le Roux en hy het my toe vertel wie Goldstone eintlik was. Hy was eintlik die ou wat altyd die veiligheidsgevangenes in die selle en in die tronke gaan besoek het en of ek bereid sou wees om vir hulle inligting te kry dat hulle net ŉ idée het waarmee die Goldstone-kommissie betrokke was.
Ek het myself gesien as ŉ baie lojale polisie-offisier en ek het onmiddelik ingestem en ek het dit my focus gemaak want ek het vyandiggesindheid onder my kollegas ervaar omdat ek nou by die Goldstone-kommissie werk, maar ek het diep in my gewete en dit het my verder gemotiveer ook om as ŉ dubbele agent op te tree en ek het sover as wat ek gegaan het, ek het teruggerapporteer aan gen. Le Roux en aan komm. Johan van der Merwe.
Ek het baie dokumente in die aande en oor naweke gaan fotostateer en gesorg dat gen. Le Roux en gen. Van der Merwe die inligting kry. Ek is vandag trots daarop dat ek ŉ dubbele agent was.
Dit was vir ŉ goeie doel en ek al my inligting aan die polisie gegee.
De Wet	Jy was nooit uitgevang toe jy dubbele agent was nie. Die eerste keer wat dit bekend geraak het was toe jyself bekend gemaak het.
Henk	Ek was. Die tyd toe Eugene de Kock gevang was, was daar ŉ direkteur Du Plessis of kol. Du Plessis van hoofkantoor wat ŉ verklaring gaan maak het dat die inligting oor Eugene de Kock bekend gaan maak het. Gene de Kock is toe gearresteer en as gevolg daarvan het die Night of the Generals gevolg waar die ander klomp generaals geskors was.
Hy het vir regter Goldstone afgetip en gesê hulle het inligting dat ek inligting vanuit die kommissie aandra na polisie-hoofkantoor.
Ek is toe die volgende oggend deur ŉ Deense polisie-offisier met wie ek baie goed bevriend was ingeroep en hy het my vertel hy was die vorige aand by ŉ vergadering waar hierdie ding geopper is en dat regter Goldstone gesê het: It’s the time to go for him en hy wil my net aftip dat hulle vermoed dat ek inligting oordra, maar dat hulle nie die bewyse het nie en dat hulle my gaan terugstuur polisie toe.
Ek het my toe voorgeneem en toe ek die volgende oggend by die kantoor kom by die Goldstone-kommissie kon my sleutel nie die voordeur oopsluit nie en toe moet ek staan en wag tot die ander persone kom werk en toe is my kantoor ook toegesluit en ek kon nie in my kantoor ingaan nie.
Ek moes in die gang staan en toe besluit ek as ek mooi Afrikaans kan praat: “Fok julle”.
En toe maak ek ŉ afspraak vir die regter en sê vir hom: “I think it is the time to go,” en ek het hom toe versoek om terug te gaan polisie toe. Ongelukkig toe ek die volgende dag by polisie-hoofkantoor aanmeld was die Night of the Generals met leë deure so ek het daar ook in die gang gestaan.
Transcript: Download (47 KB)
De Wet	I am sitting here with director Henk Heslinga, former head of the Pretoria murder and robbery squad. It is Monday 5 October 2009 in Centurion.
Henk, in those days you were involved in the Goldstone commission’s investigations. Could you explain to us. Actually, just tell us from when to when were you there and what role did you play.
Yes, I was part of the Goldstone Commission for two and a half years. If I remember correctly it was in 1992 when I was promoted at the Soweto murder and robbery squad to lieutenant-colonel and transferred to head office to be part of the riot- and violent crimes desk.
I was there for about a month when general Van der Westhuizen called me in and said there is a judge Goldstone who had to start a commission. He wanted to know if I was interested to be part of it because they were looking for a policeman who knew the black townships and that would only be for three months. Would I be interested, he asked me.
I had no problems with it and I was introduced to judge Goldstone. But our investigations escalated to such an extent that I later had to issue summonses, took statements and executed orders and summonses in the name of the Goldstone Commission and in terms of the law only officials from the prosecuting authority were allowed to do this.
I was then officially seconded to the department of justice and in terms of the law I was appointed as a committee member of the Goldstone commission which gave me the authorisation for search and seizure and the issuing of summonses.
De Wet	In my book, Total Onslaught, you admitted for the first time being, while you were attached to the Goldstone commission, that you were indeed a double agent. Would you explain how it came about and what your role was.
Henk	Yes, I was at the time called in by the head of detectives, general Le Roux and he told me who Goldstone really was. He was in fact the guy who always visited the security prisoners in their cells and in the jails and if I was prepared to pass on information to them so that they were knew what Goldstone was up to.
I saw myself as a loyal police officer and immediately agreed and made if my focus because I sensed animosity amongst my colleagues working for the Goldstone Commission, but I had a conscience and was prepared to report back as a double agent to general Le Roux and commissioner Johan van der Merwe.
I copied a lot of documents in the evenings and over weekends and made sure that general Le Roux and general Van der Merwe received the information. I am today very proud that I acted as a double agent.
It was for a good cause and I provided all the information to the police.
Interviewer	You were never caught out being a double agent. The first time it became known was when you revealed it.
Henk	At the time when Eugene de Kock was arrested there was a director Du Plessis of colonel Du Plessis from head office who made a statement about Eugene de Kock. Gene de Kock was arrested and as a result of the Night of the Generals a lot of generals were suspended.
He tipped off judge Goldstone that I was passing on information to the police headquarters.
The next day a Danish police officer with whom I had an excellent working relationship, told me that he had attended a meeting the previous evening where these allegations were mentioned and judge Goldstone said: “It’s time to go for him”, and he only wanted to warn me that they suspect that I passed on information to the police.
I decided then and when I arrived at the offices of the Goldstone Commission the next morning my keys didn’t fit the locks and I had to wait for other people to arrive for work to get access to the building. The locks on my office were also changed and I couldn’t get in there.
I was forced that stand and wait outside my office and if I may use could Afrikaans, my reaction was: Fuck them.
I made an appointment with the judge and told him: “I think it is time to go” and I requested him to go back to the police.
Translation: Download (46 KB)
Description: This interview with Henk Heslinga, a former head of the Pretoria murder and robbery squad, double agent, and member of the Goldstone Commission, regarding his involvement in the Goldstone Commission's invesitigations in 1992, consists of an audio recording, transcript and English translation. This interview was conducted, transcribed and translated by De Wet Potgieter on behalf of SAHA in 2009.