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Ek kan vandag maklik skryf oor hoe bekakkenswaardig die Springbokke in Nasrec was teen die All Blacks gistermiddag, maar dit sal te maklik wees.
Ek kan ook skryf dat deesdae met behulp van ’n blou pilletjie 80-jarige mans meer penetrasie vermoë het met ‘n ‘bal-in-hand’ as ’n Springbok agterlyn, maar dit sal te maklik wees.
Ek kan self skryf hoe in die euforie van laasweek se slagting van die Wallabies daar gewaarsku was dat die Springbokke se vertoning in die lig van die feit gesien moet word dat die sekerlik die swakste Aussie span was wat daar in 20 jaar gesien was, maar, dit sal grootbekkig wees.
Nee, vandag wil ek eerder gesels oor ons skisofreniese media en publiek, wat leiding gee tot ’n algehele Suid Afrikaanse rugby identiteitskrisis.
Ek het al vantevore geskryf dat die publiek, of meer, die media wat die publiek die twak voed, nie kan besluit of ons vloeiende aanvallende rugby wil sien nie, of dat ons spanne moet oordonder met ons sogenaamde fisiese superioriteit.
Iewers teen die eeuwisseling was ’n sekere meneer Harry Viljoen uitgelag as ’n idioot toe hy die Springbokke verhoed het om vir iets soos 70 minute nie die bal te mag skop nie en sodoende te probeer om hulle te forseer om hardloop rugby te speel.
Van die ‘idioot’ Viljoen beweeg ons toe na ’n militant-befokte Rudolph Straeuli wat gereken het dat jy net in die Springbok span kan wees as jy in ’n kaalgat boks-toernooi kan wen.
Van daar beweeg ons toe na sekerlik ons mees sielkundig stabielste afrigters in die vorm van Jake White wat toe so amper-amper gepos was maande voor die Wêreldbeker-toernooi in 2007 wat hy toe gewen het maar in elk geval daarna ge-fire was.
Ou Snorre, soos Viljoen voor hom, het gereken die Springbokke was in staat om op ’n nuwe vlak te speel maar is gou in sy plek gesit eerstens deur die media en later selfs die spelers wat gereken het Bok-spanne speel net een tipe rugby en dit is om teenstanders uit die pad te bliksem met ons bomenslike Superman krag.
Nou het ons vir Meyer, arme Meyer. En ek kry die man sweerlik-waar jammer.
Gesien as die man met die beste kwalifikasies in jare wat ’n Springbok span kan aanvoer het dit nie baie lank gevat vir hom om deur te loop onder die media en publieke skisofrene nie.
‘Hý sal ons in ons geskiedkundige en verdiende posisie in wêreldrugby terug lei’ was daar gesê… ‘Hý sal die strukture terugbring wat daai nar Snorre probeer verwoes het in die laaste vier jaar’ was daar gejuig… ‘Hý is die man wat sal seker maak ons keer terug na die rugby wat ons die beste in die wêreld gemaak het voor 1990…’
Vandat ek kan onthou was daar gesê dat die Springbokke van jare terug feitlik onstuitbaar was, dat ons die beste span in die wêreld was, of dat geen span hulle self kampioene kan noem totdat hulle nie die magtige Springbokke gewen het nie. Dit was totdat ek ’n interessante artikel van Mark Keohane nou die dag raak gelees het.
In die artikel beklemtoon hy die feit dat Suid-Afrikaners vir een of ander rede aan ’n feit probeer vasklou wat eenvoudig net nie waar is nie – en dit draai toe uit dat Sarel-snuifer nie vêr van die merk afwas nie.
Sienend dat ek nie in hierdie ‘legendariese’ Springbok era geleef het nie doen ek toe maar net al wat ek kon doen, navorsing.
Dit blyk toe dat ons ‘legendariese’ Springbokke toe nou nie so legendaries was soos daar vir my vertel was deur my ooms nie. In die jare voor 1990 het die Springbokke om en by 64% van hulle wedstryde gewen, tans sit ons wen persentasie by so 63%, nou nie ’n hemelsbreedte verskil as jy my vra nie. Selfs teen die tradisionele aartsvyande, Nieu Seeland, het ons net *54% van ons wedstryde gewen voor 1990 (*Korreksie).
So wat is my punt deur hierdie feite uit te bring? Om julle ’n groter gemoedsbekakking te besorg as wat julle al klaar het na gister se nederlaag? Beslis nie, maar ek wil graag twee punte uitlig.
Eerstens, hierdie legendariese Springbok vertonings van dekades terug is soortgelyk aan die stories wat ek as kind gelees het van die een-horing perd wat kon vlieg. Tweedens, as ons nie kan besluit presies watter tipe rugby nou eintlik bestem is vir ’n Springbok span nie en ons eie opinies jaarin en jaaruit verander, of van een afrigter na die ander, hoe de hel verwag ons dat ons afrigters ’n plan bymekaar moet sit of enige tipe plan verdedig in die media na elke wedstryd?
’n Jong en onervare Springbok span is gister ’n rugbyles geleer deur ’n blerrie goeie All Black span wie se legendariese kaptein sy 100ste toets oorwinning behaal het. Dat hulle gewen het, was nie geluk nie, hulle is die beste in die wêreld, so eenvoudig soos dit.
Geen wonder arme Heyneke lyk so deurmekaar soos ’n verkleurmannetjie op ’n smartie-boks nie – die arme man moet heeltyd homself en sy span verdedig teen ’n skisofreniese rugby publiek wat duidelik sukkel met ’n identiteitskrisis wat óf probeer vashou aan ’n rekord-geskiedenis wat eintlik nie bestaan nie, óf nie eintlik ’n idee het hoe sy span nou eintlik moet speel nie.
Maar dit bekommer my veral dat dit nou lyk of Meyer aan die neus gelei word en forseer word om spelers te kies wat miskien nie 100% fiks is nie, of nog nie reg is vir die vlak nie, en dit alles om ‘n deurmekaar rugby-publiek tevrede te stel wat hom nog steeds uitkak as hy verloor.
Bekke October 7, 2012 at 09:16
Bottomline: if you are happy believing that we should aim to be the 2nd best team in the world, go for it! Only way to become the best is if you dispise anything less. Weird that so many SA players were VERY good in S15, yet you and 2 other on this site are not at all happy that supporters want them to be even better when the best of the bedt play together in green. Any decent coach should be able to unlock that combined value – like Hanson ( AND EVEN DEANS WITH DEPLETED OZ TEAM ON OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD).
The Brand October 7, 2012 at 10:44
Jare gelede het ek navorsing by top skole en skool-provinsiale afrigters gedoen oor – wat is die belangrikste mental-aspekte benodig in rugby !
Mental-toughness (sonder om te kan defineer en implimenteer) was uitgerol as die belangrikste (meeste van afrigters)
Dan was ‘verbasend’ – Vertroue !!!
Vertroue in Wedstryd-plan!
Vertroue in Afrigter!
Vertroue in Span-maats!
En dan by meer detail onder – vertroue in span-maats :
Vertroue dat hy volgens wedstrydplan sal bly speel!
Vertroue dat hy SY werk sal doen (dat jy nie moet ‘uitkyk’ of hy gaan effektief verdedig nie [arme Habana] )
Vertroue dat hy jou JOU werk sal laat doen !
En AL die Vertroues – het onderliggende VEREISTES :
Vertroue dat elke speler KAN perform op hoër vlak!
Baie goeie KENNIS van ELKE speler se aksies en reaksies op die Hoër-Vlak spel!
Kennis van elke speler se emosionele- stande in wedstryde – wenne EN verlore!
Gegewe NET bogenoemde – hoe DE HE’LL kan ENIGE-IEMAND iets anders verwag het wanneer jy teen span speel wat -gelyke-krag – het !!! Vergeet teen span wat VER bo jou eie span se vermoeëns speel !!!
Gister was uiters swak performance deur Bokke – maar tog sooooo logies – gegewe bovermelde !
En dan raak ondersteuners – moeilik !!! Eish . . .
Laastens dankie Morne vir die Taal artikels !!!
Boertjie October 7, 2012 at 11:09
Tot en met 1984 het die Springboke
net 27% van hul 172 toetse verloor.
110 gewen, 47 verloor, 15 gelykop.
388 drieë teen 204.
2453 punte teen 1523.
Teen die All Blacks:
37 – 20 – 15 – 2
28 – 21 – 7 – 0
40 – 20 – 14 – 6
Dit sluit 1891-’96 in, toe SA rugby
in sy kinderskoene was.
Besluit maar self oor die eertydse
grootsheid van die Springbok.
Morné October 7, 2012 at 12:17
Reply to Boertjie @ 11:09 am:
SA Rugby Joernaal 2012:
Tot en met 1990 het die Springbokke ‘n wen persentasie van 64% gehad. Insluitend die toetse in die 1800’s.
Morné October 7, 2012 at 12:33
Wen persentasies vanaf 1930 (aantal toetse tussen hakkies):
31-40 (17): 76%
41-50 (4): 100%
51-60 (28): 64%
61-70 (46): 56%
71-80 (28): 71%
81-90 (18): 77%
91-00 (94): 63%
00-10 (127): 61%
Ek het n fout gemaak met die All Black toetse, Bokke 54% toets wenne teen hulle gehad tot en met 1990.
Van 1931 tot 1990 (60 jaar) het die Springbokke 141 toetse gespeel. Van 1991 tot 2010 (20 jaar) was daar 221 toetse gespeel
biltongbek October 7, 2012 at 14:06
Ek weet nie hoekom almal so ongelukkig is nie, al wat ons nou weet is dat die All Blacks baie beter as ons is, hulle het n’ goeie en effektiewe gameplan, hulle her a span wat “gesettle is”
Ons het n’ nuwe span, nuwe afrigter en is nog steeds goed genoeg om met die res van die gespuis mee te ding.
Dit is nie noodwendig slegte nuus nie. Die groot vraag is waar wil ons wees. Ek hoop die antwoord is eerste.
Dan moet n’ paar dinge verander.
Eerstens, die spelers wat in die bubble van skop, skiet en donner era gespeel het moet gaan. Hulle het nie die nodige “skills” of visie om die regte dinge te doen nie. En moenie vir my daai kak storie vertel dat one net een “strength” het nie.
Meyer sal daar uitkom, maar die verwagtinge dat ons die wereledbeker kan wen in 2015 teen die All Blacks moet van die baan gemaak word. meyer het twee “terms” nodig, hy moet SARU aan die bal gryp en vir hulle se hy het tyd nodig om die kultuur van Bok rugby te verander, daardie kultuur gaan nie oornag gebeur nie.
Daar is vele jong manne met die nodige talent in SA wat vir ons die nuwe era kan bring, maar hulle moet die kultuur leef, experience en tyd gegee word.
Morné October 7, 2012 at 15:02
Reply to biltongbek @ 2:06 pm:
Nou praat jy so na my hart.
Gepraat van ‘n kultuur skep, doen jouself n guns en kyk hoe die Windies hulself van ‘n klomp nobodies in krieket tot die wereld se beste span gekry het met rekords wat nog steeds staan, en volgens my nie in my leeftyd geklop sal word nie.
Probeer die sport dokumenter ‘Fires of Babylon’ kyk.
Boertjie October 7, 2012 at 15:14
Reply to Morné @ 12:17 pm:
My syfers is uit Teddy Shnaps –
Statistical History of Springbok Rugby.
Amptelike statistikus van SA rugby.
Gaan tot met die Kavaliers in 1986.
biltongbek October 7, 2012 at 15:15
Reply to Morné @ 3:02 pm: Sal kyk of ek dit kan opspoor.
Morné October 7, 2012 at 15:19
Reply to Boertjie @ 3:14 pm:
Ek dink ons kyk na dieselfde statistieke, jy het die verloor persentasies gebruik en ek die wenne wat albei natuurlik nie gelykopuitslagte in ag neem nie – dit is waar die verskil tussen die persentasies toegeskryf kan word, die gelykop wedstryde.
Vetgesmeerde Blits October 7, 2012 at 15:45
Ek stem met baie van die goed in die artikel saam, veral dat die media en ondersteuners hopeloos te veel druk op die afrigter sit en te gou te veel verwag.
Wat ek wel nie mee saamstem nie, is dat Heyneke hom aan die neus laat lei het vat spankeuses aanbetref. Wie is hierdie spelers wat deur die media inforseer word? Noem hulle op die naam, anders bly dit net ‘n los persepsie sonder veel vleis om die been.
Heyneke is onder geweldige druk om te wen, ek glo hy het die span gekies wat hy gevoel het die Bokke terug op die wenpad sou plaas.
Hier is my persoonlike opinie oor wie van gister se span kwansuis deur die media en ondersteuners inforseer is.
1. Beast. Die beste loskop in SA, Heyneke se keuse.
2. Strauss, 2de beste haker na Bismark, Heyneke se keuse.
3. Jannie, die beste wat ons het, Heyneke se keuse.
4. Eben Etzebeth. Van die eerste toets af Heyneke se eerste keuse, selfs na sy skorsing.
5. Andries Bekker en Juandre Kruger het ewe veel kanse gehad, nie een van die 2 het oortuig nie. Andries is gepos na die Argentinie toets, Juandre na die All Black toets toe ons 7 balle verloor het. Weereens Heyneke se keuse.
6 Francois Louw, hier moet ek deels met jou saamstem. Die media het gedruk vir n fetcher, almal het gedink dit gaan Brussouw wees, Heyneke het n meer ‘hybrid fetcher’ soos Louw verkies. Sy eerste keuse was eers Marcell Coetzee, wat as n flank met n baie hoe werksverrigting die rol moes vervul. Louw het ‘n steunpilaar in die span geword. So dis n mengsel van Heyneke met publieke druk se keuse.
7 Alberts, Heyneke maak geen geheim van die feit dat Alberts van die begin af sy eerste keuse was nie. Heyneke se keuse.
8. Vermeulen. Van die begin af Heyneke se eerste keuse nr 8. Dit was vir baie egter ‘n reuse verrassing toe hy so gou na sy besering nadergeroep is teen waarskuwings van sy afrigter by die Wp, Alister Coetzee. Baie min mense het verwag dat hy so gou sou begin. En deur Keegan Daniel te pos het hy ‘n groot getal Haai ondersteuners hoogs die moer in gemaak. Heyneke se keuse.
9. Ruan Pienaar. Heyneke het eers vir Fourie du Preez probeer nader trek. Dit is geen geheim dat Heyneke ‘n goeie taktiese skopper op skrumskakel verkies nie. Hougaard is na ‘n gemiddelde paar wedstryde vleuel toe geskuif. Heyneke het ook baie moeite gedoen om Ruan van Ierland af terug te bring. Heyneke se keuse.
10. Goosen en Jantjies. Hier kan ek ook deels met jou saamstem dat daar baie druk op Heyneke was om Morne te vervang. Niemand het hom egter gedwing om Goosen na net een wedstryd terug te kies teen Naka se waarskuwings nie. Dit was n onverwagse desperate spankeuse deur Heyneke omdat Morne totaal en al uit die bus uit geval het. Toe Goosen eers in die groep was en Morne verder agteruit gegaan het het die media begin druk vir sy insluiting in die beginspan. So weereens Heyneke se keuse, met baie druk van die media.
11 Hougaard is met Basson en Jp uit die beste daar, veral met Mvovu se probleme onder die hoe bal. Heyneke se keuse.
12. Van die begin af Heyneke se oorgangs kaptein nadat Fourie de Preez onttrek het. Heyneke se keuse.
13. Taute. As Heyneke hom deur die media laat voorse het sou hy De Jong gekies het. Heyneke se keuse.
14. Habana die beste wat ons het. Heyneke se keuse.
15. Kirchner. Weereens, as Heyneke na die publiek en media geluister het was Lambie lankal die eerste keuse. Heyneke se keuse.
16. Liebenberg. Met al die beserings niemand anders. Heyneke se keuse.
17. Coenie, van die begin af Heyneke se eerste keuse stut vir die bank.
18. Flip. Heyneke se keuse.
19. Marcell, Heyneke se keuse.
20. Lambie, in die groep van die begin af. Heyneke se keuse.
21. De Jonge, Daar was baie ongelukkigheid toe JJ bo hom gekies is, maar de Jonge het JJ eers lank nadat die stof reeds gaan le het vervang, met Heyneke wat dit duidelik gemaak het dat hy n spesialis senter op die bank nodig het omdat Jean met n paar klein beserings sukkel. Dit is ook baie insiggewend dat Mapoe nou ook bo JJ in die groter groep ingesluit is. Heyneke se keuse.
Jantjies. Niks het Heyneke verhoed om Morne op die bank te hou nie. Die media het ook nie veel oor Jantjies gese nie, omdat Lambie klaar daar is. Heyneke se keuse.
Hierdie is my eie subjektiewe opsomming. Behalwe vir nr 10 en dalk nr 6 wat beide steeds hoogs debatteerbaar is is hierdie uit en uit ‘n Heyneke Meyer span, wat vir my die bogenoemde teorie redelik ver uit die water uit blaas.
Ek glo nie Heyneke sal hom laat voorse nie, wen is vir hom heeltemal te belangrik.
Sal graag ander se opinies wil hoor.
Boertjie October 7, 2012 at 15:54
Ja, Greyling en Potgieter was ook
Heyneke se keuses.
Ek dink nie mediadruk was nodig om
hom te oortuig hulle hoort nie daar
nie – die man het mos oë.
Morné October 7, 2012 at 19:45
Reply to Vetgesmeerde Blits @ 3:45 pm:
Ek weet ek veralgemeen baie, maar dit kom ook van die feit dat ek verskeie sosiale media kommentaar lees en natuurlik nie net die kommentaar van die blog nie.
Maar ek probeer ook vinnig dink aan ‘n speler wat ‘almal’ (lees eerste paragraaf) in die span wou gehad het, of uit wou gehad het, en ek kan net dink aan Brussow (in) en Kirchner (uit) wat nie gebeur het nie?
My punt met die laaste paragraaf van die artikel het betrekking op ons afrigters in die laaste 10 jaar.
Persoonlik dink ek elkeen het ‘n spesifieke sterkpunt gehad (selfs Strools) maar elkeen van hulle het teen hulle eie beginsels gegaan agv druk van die media (wat maar duidelik net die spreekbuis is vir ondersteuners om koerante te verkoop).
Die All Blacks het Henry vir 8 jaar gehou, toe hy uiteindelik klaar was het hulle sy hulp-afrigter wat al 8 jaar saam met hom was aangestel as die main-konyn – dink jy ons sal dit ooit sien in SA Rugby?
Ek lees selfs vandag dat Goosen en Taute die trekpas moet kry want hulle is nie opgewasse vir die vlak nie.
Rerig? Wat de fok man?
Timeo October 7, 2012 at 20:11
Good stuff Morne, but I’d suggest it is not fan schizophrenia that is the problem in SA but rather a set of mutually exclusive desires.
Playing pretty AND winning is what the SA fan wants most of all.
The problem is the two just don’t go together. Not when you face teams of equal or more talent than yours.
In Dunedin the Boks played ugly and if not for the place kicking would have won. In Soweto there were no “if only”. They were simply beaten by a team that is much better than they are with ball in hand.
Morné October 7, 2012 at 20:18
Reply to Timeo @ 8:11 pm:
summed up pretty well in 4 paragraphs.
Bekke October 7, 2012 at 20:38
Morne, dis net DawidS (met paar leë papsakke langs hom) wat Goosen nou weer uit die span wil hê. Ek hoop die 4 Nasies het Hak Hak se ogies oopgemaak. Hopenlik kyk hy ook mooi na sy afrigtingspan, maar ek is bevrees (agv kontrakte) gaan ons nog vir hele rukkie met Skoen en Graswalms sit.
Vetgesmeerde Blits October 7, 2012 at 21:06
Reply to Morné @ 7:45 pm:
Dit is waar. Ek dink daar is geweldige ongeduld en oorreaksie onder die SA rugbypubliek. Ons wil he dat Taute na 2 toetse op dieslfde vlak as Jaques Fourie na 30 toetse moet wees. Ons vergeet dat spelers soos Fourie, Bakkies, Matfield ens ook iewers begin het en nie na 2 wedstryde wereldklas was nie. Bakkies het bv sy eerste toets einde 2002 teen Frankryk gespeel. Hy was power en het ‘n paar belangrike duikslae gemis. Ons het sleg verloor en hy is een van die sondebokke gemaak. Hoeveel swakker en armer sou Bok rugby nie gewees het as ons hom net daar weggegooi het nie?
Hel, Victor Matfield is in n stadium gepos vir Gerrie Britz.
Diegene wat na 2 toetse beslis dat Taute en Goosen nie goed genoeg is presies dieselfde as die mense wat wil he Heyneke moet misluk. Hulle verstaan nie toetsrugby nie
Vetgesmeerde Blits October 7, 2012 at 21:16
Correct. We were beaten by a better team. Simple as that. There is no point in blaming Heyneke, there wasn’t much he could to more to avoid this. We are right at the beginning of a Bok siclus, playing against a very settled World Champion side. This Bok team will close the gap again.
Timeo October 7, 2012 at 21:45
Reply to Vetgesmeerde Blits @ 9:16 pm:
The Boks could have beaten their better opponents yesterday, if they played like they did in Dunedin. More kicking, less running is the only way a team of lesser talent have a chance.
But the SA fans hate that type of game more than they love winning.
If Heyneke Meyer decided on, or allowed his players to make the change then he is indeed to blame.
Vetgesmeerde Blits October 7, 2012 at 23:10
Reply to Timeo @ 9:45 pm: If that is what you meant then we indeed disagree. I don’t know wich game you where watching, but I surely didn’t see the Boks playing running rugby. Appart from the Habanna try there was still a lot of kicking. Non of us has a crystal ball, and who knows what would have happened if we kicked more. The opposite of what you are saying might also have happened, as we saw from their try from Tautes kick they clearly deviced plans to run our kicks back at us. We could have lost by even more.
I am also not a fan of pretty rugby. I prever a more conservative aproach with a dominant pack and good tactical kicking but with variation. Without balance we will become utterly predictable and teams will start working us out. If a try is on we need a good enough backline to be able to score. The kick and chase at all costs aproach will have limited sucsess and to use only the Dunedin game as a case study will not paint an accurate picture. The All Blacks didn’t play well at all and without Dan Carter they are a severly weakened side. Aron Cruden doesn’t have the ability to relieve pressue with his boot and we were able to keep them in their own have. With Carter there it would have been a different game. The fact that they played most of the game with Weepu instead of Smith also contributed to their slow backfoot ball.
I dont think it is as simple as you try and make it look. The Boks are far from a settled side. They have new players at 2, 4, 8, 9, 10, 13 and 15 and will need more time to become a formidable unit.
And what did Heyneke and de Villiers meen last week when they said that our game plan didn’t change, only our execution was better?
Timeo October 8, 2012 at 00:09
Kicks, Boks 17, NZ 28
Kicks, Boks 27, NZ 24
I know it’s not all there is to it and it does not always work, but for SA teams, it works better than ball carrying most of the time.
Vetgesmeerde Blits October 8, 2012 at 00:18
Reply to Timeo @ 12:09 am: Very interesing stats, especially Nz kicking 28 times.
Jacques(Bunny)Morne Steyn is Baas October 8, 2012 at 01:13
Last year habs played badly and everyone wanted him out, even after avarage supershit this year people said their are better. They stick with him and he is one of the stars of this team, still making mistakes but got over the bad spell because they believed in him when media and supporters did not. Now what is different with guys like morne? Dubble standards if you ask me
Americano October 8, 2012 at 02:25
Reply to Vetgesmeerde Blits @ 12:18 am:
I think that Carter did make a big difference with his inclusion in this game vs. NZ.
But I also think that due to the fact that SA was playing in NZ they were much more “buttoned down” and focused on being clinical, spirited and with better numbers at the breakdowns in NZ. I think the higher kick number in NZ showed a greater emphasis on field position than was the case yesterday. Bok forwards beat NZ in in NZ that game period.
I think the loosey goosey nature of yesterdays test showed that the Australian win went to their head. SA thought the same sort of razzle dazzle could be applied to NZ at home and result the same as ocurred to Aus the week prior.
They were wrong and Rico Gear was simply brilliant. How many tacklers did he make roadkill out of?
Americano October 8, 2012 at 02:37
Reply to Jacques(Bunny)Morne Steyn is Baas @ 1:13 am:
Bunny – as Bryce has commented on, Habana has shone marked improvement when put on the right side wing.
Difference between Habana and Steyn is that Habana provides dynamic upside with game changing potential.
If you were to maker the same argument for Steyn it would top out that he can make all of his kicks – after that the drop off in upside is very very steep.
Steyn has had issues with kicking – costing SA the test in NZ and had a supreme talent behind him – The Goose who can add more of a threat with running. Steyn lost out on that.
I have zero doubts regarding the awesomeness that is The Goose. Paired with his wonder twin – Messerschmitt – Willie its “Katie Bar the Door” and curtains for all comers – but that’s a topic unto itself – and only after HM decides to ” Do the right thing.”
Mug Punters Organisation of South Africa October 8, 2012 at 04:26
If you thought that the Boks would beat the All Blacks on the weekend based on the Australia game, put away your crack pipe and get help.
The Boks should have killed Australia by 60 points and failed to impress and worse the Aussies were down to 14 men. I knew we were going to get nagged agianst the AB’s after watching that kak.
Ok so we kick the ball all the time then suddenly tell the backline to run the ball and when they f up you wonder why? Its like Lambie sitting on the bench and when he finally gets a little time and does not shine you wonder why?
HM is looking like he has been selected 10 years too late. He is stuck in another era and does not compute the modern game. As for the backline coach he should join Fleck and True in the Mug Coaches Crganisation of South Africa
So if you think the Boks were going to win against the Boks then help is on hand. We at Mpoosa (Mug Punters Organisation of South Africa) are here for you.
We make your dillusions feel real, you are allowed to make the most outlandish player selections and most illogical emotional statements and we wont judge you.
Smit was the best captain for RWC
White did not fluke his RWC win
HM is a modern rugby man
Al Coetsee will take Problems to cup glory
You have a home, a warm place to make feel secure and non judgemental to your looney ravings.
Bryce would have been the President but he is Australian citizen and that would be a conflict of intrest.
So once a month Bryce will select you as the Mug Punter of the month and you are allowed to say what you want for that whole month and no one can rip you off.
Acting President(till some one says something doffer)
I haver already said HM is a donkey so my crazy statement is Raun Pienaar should play 12.
Mug Punters Organisation of South Africa October 8, 2012 at 04:32
Reply to Americano @ 2:37 am: Habadonna only shines because the rest of the backline is crap. He is on overted and 1 dimesional. Sure he is now working hard but still not convinced he is a world beater. He messes up two tries against Australia and his raved about chip kick, well that is standard fair for a backline player, even Vic scores like that.
He is going back to he bad old ways of big screen watching and running out of the defensive line.
Americano October 8, 2012 at 05:27
Kevin Rack –
This “Mug punter ” thing – get a hold of yourself.
I think you’ve spent too much time in the sun if you’re thinking Ruan Pineaar is a #12.
#12 is already spoken for by….
Schalk Brits :applause:
Mug Punters Organisation of South Africa October 8, 2012 at 09:21
Reply to Americano @ 5:27 am: Jeez mate you could be a member of MPOOSA with a comment like that. Hell I will step down as president now.
The Boks have always delivered great forwards so maybe we can make the whole backline forwards and play stampkar rugby league.
Hey Bryce please vote Americano onto MPOOSA of the month.
DavidS October 8, 2012 at 09:42
En sodra ons so “confidence” en “wen kultuur” gedagte probeer skep dan kom mense soos shields en Ollie en bevraagteken ons arrogantheid.
Mens kan nie wen in SA nie.
DavidS October 8, 2012 at 09:44
As ons die gedagtegang kan skep soos die Aus krieket spanne van Border en Waugh en enige era se NS spanne dan MOET mens in elke toets ingaan met die gedagtegang dat maak nie saak wat die opposisie doen nie, ons is beter en ons kan meer punte as hulle aanteken.
NS doen dit.
Ons voor 1990 rekord teen NS wys ons is die ENIGSTE span op AARDE wat ‘n wen ratio bo 50% teen hulle gehad het.
DIE ENIGSTE SPAN WAT HULLE GEVREES HET.
Bokhoring October 8, 2012 at 09:54
Reply to Timeo @ 12:09 am: True, All Blacks used the up and under a lot in this game.
I think the difference is in the quality of the kicks. Carter very seldom kicks straight down the throat of a player.
Our attack is very slow and predictable and prone to turnovers. We struggle to maintain possession for more than a few phases – but this is a general problem with SA sides when playing quality opposition.
We struggle to build momentum – and it is not helped by the few attacking options we present. Secondly our handling skills are not in the class of the AB’s. Looking at the Whitelock and Nonu tries – our players would have butchered some of those passes.
The catch-22 is how to improve the attacking skills while at the same time keeping the winning ratio up.
Bokhoring October 8, 2012 at 10:02
Meyer’s coaching team is severely lacking. He really needed to look overseas for some of his assistants. The likes of Loubscher and Van Graan vs. “hardebaarde” such as Ian Foster (who coached Chiefs and junior AB’s) is just not going to deliver any improvements.
Icebabe October 8, 2012 at 12:23
“Playing pretty AND winning is what the SA fan wants most of all.
The problem is the two just don’t go together.”
The All Blacks play pretty and win…I want that too!
Icebabe October 8, 2012 at 12:25
Reply to DavidS @ 9:42 am: Quite frankly kan ek nie verstaan watter reputable journo vir ollie sy opinie sal vra en dit dan nog in die media sit nie…. :blah:
Timeo October 8, 2012 at 13:42
Reply to Icebabe @ 12:23 pm:
You left out a crucial part of my assertion.
“The problem is the two just don’t go together. Not when you face teams of equal or more talent than yours.”
Games in which the ABs face an opponent with more talent on the field than they have are very, very rare. Thus they can play pretty and win.
The Boks can play pretty and win when they meet Scotland, but most of their games are not against Scotland. Most games are against NZ and Aus and in those games they face a team of equal or more talent, most of the time.
Ollie October 8, 2012 at 15:14
Reply to Icebabe @ 12:25 pm:
Just for the record, not this Ollie
Ollie October 8, 2012 at 15:16
Reply to Ollie @ 3:14 pm:
Oops, my mistake, Davids was referring to me. Icebabe, you got the wrong Ollie
Icebabe October 8, 2012 at 15:18
Reply to Timeo @ 1:42 pm: Okay agreed. I was a bit selective there…but it stays my wish to be able to play pretty and win even against the AB’s.
I dont want that to be about just playing against shittier teams than us…and I certainly believe that it can be done…. but then again I am the forever optimist
Ollie October 8, 2012 at 15:18
Reply to DavidS @ 9:42 am:
I’ve got nothing against building a winning culture, I have a problem with people thinking it is our right to win and criticising the coach and players to no end when the underlying structures don’t allow for much better over the long term.
Eish, how many different ways can I explain it before you grasp that.
Icebabe October 8, 2012 at 15:21
Reply to Ollie @ 3:14 pm: Reply to Ollie @ 3:16 pm:
:im a idiot: Sorry!
Ollie October 8, 2012 at 15:22
Reply to Icebabe @ 3:21 pm:
Boertjie October 8, 2012 at 20:25
Reply to Ollie @ 3:18 pm:
Good question. Is your French any good?
Can Dawie understand French?
BTW what the hell has happened to JT?
Craven October 9, 2012 at 07:59
Reply to Bokhoring @ 9:54 am:
Agree on the quality of the NZ kicks. Take the kick where Elton overcooked it and kicked the ball straight into touch. His idea was sound, and I loved the thought of kicking behind their back three and making them turn around. Pity the execution wasn’t 100%, but hat type of kicking I have no problem with. It is the punting of the ball upfield hoping and praying something will come of it that pisses me off. You can see there is no thought behind the kick, it is just that the player have no other idea what to do with the ball.
Craven October 9, 2012 at 08:02
Just to add, I still feel Elton deserves to play more rugby in the Bok jersey. For me personally he is the on form flyhalf in SA this year. Goossen is very good, don’t get me worng, but he is very young and, like Cruden, should be brought into the system slowly, mostly because his body does not seem to cope too well with the knocks of Super and Test rugby.
JT_BOKBEFOK! October 9, 2012 at 09:00
Reply to Boertjie @ 8:25 pm:
Ollie October 9, 2012 at 09:04
About all I can say in french is that I can’t speak it