#29520 - 05/18/06 08:55 AM Re: Izindimi(tongues)
Ngifikelwe yile imibuzo nxa bengifunda izilobo zakho:
Uthi wena nxa idlozi lingabuyiswanga liyaphela amandla licine libhujiswe ngamathongo ezinye izizwe, kungani lingelawo amadla okuzivikila, kanti njalo kungani uNkulunkulu engangeneli alisize? Also in other words idlozi is dependant on humans for survival so what significant contribution does it have to deserve worship.
Nxa kuyikuthi idlozi elingabuyiswanga licina libhubhile kungani kulabantu abalenhlupho which are said to be due to amadlozi angabuyiswanga and i-mistake yakhona you can be told ukuthi yenziwa ngokhokho babokhokho abafa kudala?
Uthi wena nxa amdlozi engadli ayabhubha: It sounds strange gaya, I thought they only need to be pleased not fed, and if not pleased ayahlamuka umuntu not ukuthi ayabhubha.
Isimnandi inxoxo Zwangendaba and I would want it to be a productive discussion. One way which may cause it to degenerate into a foolish argument are such phrases and attitudes you have quoted eyokuthi-Some one says your ways are false: Such have an effect of irritating the recipient causing them to retaliate, from there sekujikijelwana ngamazwi which lead to High sounding nothings. Kodwa ke for us to benefit never mind such njalo ungabasoli, you'll agree with me ukuthi when it comes to these religious issues some pple do not know why they believe in what they believe but they have steriotyped minds which will not allow them to evaluate matters objectively but are keen to defend what they don't understand. When their faith is questioned they resort to-ukuphophotha.
So Zwangendaba for us to have tenacity of purpose ngicela siqale sivumelane lapha ukuthi silenjongo bani ngale idiscussion so that we will know how to move njalo singa-dirveteki as we discuss:
My aim is to learn from you & others and to share what I believe in. I do not want to convert you(or any one) nor prove how wrong you are or superior my beliefs are. I hope its the same with everyone else:
In that light I suggest ukuthi ke sihluze isisusa sakho konke, sikhangele ubu-reasonably lobu-non sense bakho konke besesibona okusilungeleyo.
Okokuqala Zwangendaba do we agree ukuthi into esikhuluma ngazo lapha zombili are beliefs: Awukaze ulibone idlozi lo-Onkulunkulu in as much a way as no one has seen uNkulunkulu lo moya ongcwele?
So iyini ibasis yenkolo? May be its about convictions and what people have gone thru in their individual lives.
Concerning i-foresight, usungicacele: Kunje Zwangendaba- God indeed created Lucifer and was the biggest of all angels. God however would not destroy him because all other creatures would have worshipped him out of fear. But God wants his creatures to worship him out of love and recgnition of his mercy. He allowed konke okwenzakalyo so that every creature will acknowledge ukuthi he is a loving and long suffering God. Eventually when Satan is destroyed all will acknowledge ukuthi he deserves it.
God does not really give us away to fight Satan but to make a choice between him and Satan.
#29521 - 05/18/06 01:43 PM Re: Izindimi(tongues)
Bakwethu, akenifunde lokhu. Ngikwethule ku Bulawayo1872. Akukho engizakutsho mina mselufu ngoba kangina lwazi ngendaba zokholo kumbe amadlozi, kodwa ngilalele.
 By and large, the Ndebele believed in a creator, uNkulunkulu thought of as the first human being. Nkulunkulu and his wife, Mvelengani are said to have emerged out of a marshy place where they found cattle and grain already awaiting them in abundance. They lived together and had children to whom they passed on their culture and tradition, when they were old, they returned to the ground where they became snakes. [/]
1. Ndebele Religion
2. Mzilikazi, the Ndebele & Christianity
#29522 - 05/20/06 04:35 PM Re: Izindimi(tongues)
Ngizaqala ngokuthi UNGIXOLELE Gaselomhle ngoba okunje angikwekeli kusedlula.
Engikwalayo Zwangendaba yikuthi ngilale ngikhonza amadimoni from the pit of hell, ngichithela utshwala lenyama phansi ( to the dead) in the belief that I am pleasing some ancestors that I know very little about. I would rather worship an 'Ancestor' who has a proven record ukuthi ungubani, uvelangaphi njalo sowenzani emhlabeni.
What have your ancestors ever done for you? What advice do they give you? Were they successful people when they were alive? Why can they not teach you to be successful today? Do they identify with you and your needs today? Ukukhonza amadlozi yikukhonza uSathane ngokwakhe and I will not do it. It does not make me any less of a Nguni.IN ACTAUL FACT, I AM A BETTER NGUNI FOR IT.
Give me an example of someone okhonza amadlozi olokuthula empilweni yakhe.
Whilst you claim thatyou SHALL NOT TELL lies, you have proven not to follow your own teachings. U "GOD" lo othi you would rather worship yena ngoba uyamazi, KAWUMAZI. You only learnt about him, from Colonialism to Independence.
You say awusoze uzihluphe ngokuchitha utshwala, kanti leli GAZI ELILINATHAYO emasontweni enu lisithi ngelika JESU asibo bu VAMPIRE nje bonobo??? Yikulandela IMIKHUBO elingeke layichasisa ukuthi yavela njani. "EAT THIS IS MY FLESH. DRINK THIS IS MY BLOOD" YIMIKHUBO leyo ende usungenile ebuthakathini obunzima ngoba nxa umuntu engakwenzela amasalamusi UDLE INYAMA YAKHE WENA USITHI YISINKWA, UBUYE UNATHE IGAZI LAKHE USITHI YI "WINE", (utshwala lobo othi wena abungcwele), usungenile ebuthakathini obesabekayo.
Uxolo njalo Gaselomhle, Ngizakuya bala indaba yakho ngikuphendule ngokufundiswa kwami kodwa uzaxola ngoba angikwazi ukuthi turn the other chick. Yikho okwenza sathathelwa ilizwe.
Hatshibo: Angikamboni okhonzayo othi ulokuthula mina njengoba Hatshibo lawe inhliziyo yakho ibonisa ukukhahlameka phakathi. Nxa kuyikho ukusindiswa lokho, ngizazihlalela lamadlozi akwethu, NGAWOBUNGUNI LOBUKALANGA njalo.
#29523 - 05/22/06 07:32 AM Re: Izindimi(tongues)
Zwana Hatshibo lani lonke abakholwa isiKrestu:
It is recorded in scripture ukuthi the word of God is not only for rebuking but also includes teaching, correcting, councelling etc. So as we interract with pple we shud not always be out to rebuke their beliefs as it yields nothing, instead let us "reason together", in the process we will learn more (that's growth & development towards spiritual maturity), share our faith & it's benefits (that's teaching & correcting)
I believe the only pple who deserve rebuke and stern reactions are HYPOCRITES, Abazenzisi.
One weakness engibona sengathi ikumaKrestu amanengi it's failure to acknowledge where we do not know or are not sure. There is no harm in telling a person ukuthi angilampendulo ngombuzo wakho and from there ubususiya risetsha with an open mind, believe me you will learn many new things. If you have answers to questions raised zibeke kahle ukuze the intended beneficiary azwisise angaze abona sengathi uyameyisa kumbe you see a psycho in him. That is why Christ was always found among sinners and the later were more comfortable in his company than that of rabbis, abafarisi etc
By the way no one person can say I fully comprehend God's word and God's ways, Noone has monopoly of knowledge.
So lets reason with one another regardless of our beliefs and at the end of the day each person will make their own choice. And regardless of the differences in choices we can still be friends and civil to one another. By the way sonke simunye ngokuba ngaba ko Mthwakazi and as we interact we are trying to strengthen the bond.
Asilimukeni njalo ezinye i-teachings which are said from the pulpit as they may not be true/accurate, eg when we say abantu abakhonza amadlozi kabala-peace. If you are to look at the real life objectively the factors which disturb i-peace yo muntu zehlela wonke umuntu kungakhathalekile ukuthi ukholwani, for instance ungaya emangcwabeni akhona amagcwaba amaKrestu, abamadlozi, lamakharathi konke, same applies ezibhedlela, same applies kubayanga lezinothi, same applies kuzilima lezigoga, inyumba, ukufeyila esikolo. Kuphela umKrestu nxa elodubo lwakhe uthi inkosi ikubone kufanele, omunye ngale esithi amadlozi angihlanekele, while the other may dismiss it as fate. But ultimately as long as you live at one point or another your peace will be disturbed.
#29524 - 05/23/06 08:32 PM Re: Izindimi(tongues)
Gasolomhle, YOU INSPIRE ME. THANX. Ngizazama ukuthobisa ulimi lwami, njalo ngiyaxolisa kuZulu jikelele. I sometimes get very angry. Asixoxeni ngilazise lapho izangoma ezisola khona ukwenzela ukuthi sinanzelele ukuthi LATHI ABENSUNDU BESIVELE SIMAZI ONKULU-NKULU. ASIVUMELANI NJE LALOKHU OKOKUTHI SEKUMELE SIMKHONZE NGEDLOZI LEZINYE IZIZWE KUTHIWE AWETHU AMADLOZI EASENGAMADIMONI.
Ibala elithi DIMONI yikuTHONYELWA zindimi zezinye izizwe. Asilayo ingcazelo egcweleyo ngesintu ukuthi DIMONI kutshoni. Yikho lapho izangoma ezithanda izinto zibekwe sobala.
Nxa IDLOZI kungumoya wabokhokho bakho ungathi SEBENGAMADIMONI uqobo??????????
#29525 - 05/24/06 06:58 AM Re: Izindimi(tongues)
I don't want to call inkolo yakho "amadimoni", somehow it is an offensive and belittling term. Instead I respect you for what you are for I know for certain that for everyone who has studied history well there is every logic to stick to the old time traditional religion.
What l want to address now is what you raised concerning ukukhonza uNkulunkulu thru idlozi lezizweni:
Ngikuzwisisa kanje Zwangendaba, there is a difference between Christ and all other human beings (including our ancestors), that is why he is worthy to be worshipped. Christ was not an ordinary human being, his birth on earth was not the begginning of his existence but "incarnation of grace". Christ has always been there and was involved in the creation of the world. Because he has power to create life out of nothing he therefore becomes the "creator" hence the creatures owe him allegiance and worship. Unlike amadlozi whose power has limitations like ours. From a Biblical perspective, I wud view them as equivalent to angels, and Biblically worshipping an angel is idolatry.
In short Christ is not an equivalent of amadlozi, you'll even notice ukuthi there is only one Christ who will remain one for all ages whereas amadlozi omndeni munye manengi and they keep multiplying as generations multiply.
#29526 - 05/24/06 03:12 PM Re: Izindimi(tongues)
DEUTERONOMY 18:9-12(King James Version)
10. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an echanter, or a witch,
12.For all that do these things are an abomination unto the lord:and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
#29527 - 05/28/06 09:52 PM Re: Izindimi(tongues)
Ngikuzwisisa kanje Zwangendaba, there is a difference between Christ and all other human beings (including our ancestors), that is why he is worthy to be worshipped. Christ was not an ordinary human being, his birth on earth was not the begginning of his existence but "incarnation of grace".
If he was a Human Being, no matter how extra ordinary, when he dies, uba lidlozi. Those same amadlozi manengi njengawethu, ngoba you are made to worship Jesus, Moses, elijah, you know them all.
Thina ngesintu mfowethu asikwazi ukuthi AMADLOZI ayakhonzwa. Sikhonza oNkulu-Nkulu. Amadlozi sithethela kiwo sikhonza umdali ngawo. Isintu sesathonyelwa yikho laba abangaziyo bagcizelela ukuthi sikhonza amadlozi, akusilo qinisa lelo.
Nxa usumbeke ngaleyo ndlela u Jesu, ngibuze, uyalingana loNkulu-Nkulu na??? Nxa kunguye owadala lomhlaba leminye njalo, oNkulu-Nkulu wayengaphi???
Asikhulumeni iqiniso sithi lokhu yikho OKUYIKHO kumbe sivume ukuthi SIQHUBELA PHAMBILI INTO ESAYIFUNDISWAYO kodwa esingela bufakazi layo.
Then and then can one fulfill one of their COMMANDMENTS which goes, "thou shalt not lie"
#29528 - 05/29/06 07:29 AM Re: Izindimi(tongues)
Eyami inkolo does not worship Elijah, Moses and all other persons. Christ is the way the truth and life, He says "no man cometh to the Father but thru Me" Jesus has always been there when he was born it was incarnation of grace and he did not remain in the grave but resurrected and now is in heaven.
#29529 - 05/29/06 05:22 PM Re: Izindimi(tongues)
Kanti ngikengibuze Gasela,do you worship Jesus or you worship God through Jesus Christ?