Israel kry land terug in 1948, is dit Bybelse profesie? [Archive] - BibleForums Christian Message Board
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Nov 4th 2015, 05:00 PM
Mens wonder of iets soos anti-Amerikaans of anti-Europees net so groot sonde sou wees? Wat mens net pla met die term 'anti-Semieties', is dat dit onredelik toegedig word soos in ons eie land die term 'rassis', net aan 'n sekere bevolkingsgroep toegedig word. Dit het veel meer met manipulering en massa-psigose te doen, as met werklike feite en redelikheid...
Op so wyse kry sekere groepe 'n greep op ander wat heeltemal onrealistiese gevolge najaag en ook bevorder... Dis TOTAAL ongeballanseerd!
Nov 4th 2015, 06:31 PM
Stem saam, en dit ten spyte daarvan dat "anti-semiet" in elk geval 'n misnoemer is, want 'n "semiet" sluit tegnies juis Palestyne/Arabiere in!
Ek het onlangs na 'n akademiese artikel van 'n genitikus gekyk (dit is beskikbaar: The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian
Hypotheses deur Eran Elhaik (http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/12/14/gbe.evs119)) wat bewys dat die sg. Askanasi-Jode van Europa eintlik Khasars is. Lg. was deur baie as 'n "conspiracy theory" beskou, maar is nou bewys.
Nov 6th 2015, 07:49 AM
Jy is reg, semiet is 'n relatiewe begrip. My vraag is, waar in die Bybel word hierdie term gebruik om dit relatief tot ons dag te maak? As die Bybel dit nie gebruik nie, hoekom moet ons dan?
Wat my net opval van die artikel, is dat in die 7 briewe wat Jesus aan die 7 gemeentes geskryf het in Openbaring, daar basies net 2 groot vyande van die Kerk is/was, naamlik Satan en die vals Jode. Open 2:9 en 3:9 praat daarvan en dit blyk dat as iemand hulle so voorhou, gegewe wat in die 7 briewe aan die 7 gemeentes staan, sulkes vals Jode is...
Ek ken jou werke en verdrukking en armoede maar jy is ryk en die lastering van die wat sê dat hulle Jode is en dit nie is nie, maar ‘n sinagoge van die Satan.
Verwys hierdie briewe na ons dag ook?
Nov 7th 2015, 12:42 PM
Dis 'n goeie vraag. Ek dink dit kom terug na die 2 saadlyne in die Bybel waarvan Gen 3:15 praat. Hierdie 2 saadlyne staan in kontinuïteit met die Bybel, en bestaan vandag nog!
Nov 7th 2015, 07:20 PM
Jy meen, Christus se saad en Satan se saad?
Nov 9th 2015, 12:39 PM
Ja, die nageslag van die vrou (al God se kinders deur die eeue) en die saad van die slang (al die kinders van die koninkryk van die duisternis deur die eeue heen).
Nov 10th 2015, 08:18 AM
Ons gesinnetjie is amper deur Handelinge en gisteraand se gedeelte het gehandel oor Paulus se roerende verdediging voor koning Agrippa. Hy lewer getuienis van die opdrag wat hy van Jesus ontvang het as volg:
Maar rig jou op en staan op jou voete, want hiertoe het Ek aan jou verskyn om jou te bestem tot ‘n dienaar en getuie van die dinge wat jy gesien het en van die dinge waarin Ek nog aan jou sal verskyn, terwyl Ek jou verlos uit die volk en die heidene na wie Ek jou nou stuur, om hulle oë te open, dat hulle hul van die duisternis tot die lig kan bekeer en van die mag van die Satan tot God, sodat hulle deur die geloof in My vergifnis van sondes en ‘n erfdeel onder die geheiligdes kan ontvang.
(Act 26:16-18) Daar is maar net een Weg...
Nov 10th 2015, 10:01 PM
Een verhaal wat almal presies dieselfde ge-affekteer het. Ek wil ook aansluit by SoS se plasing, dat daar maar net een Weg is. Toe die Here met Abram 'n verbond gesluit het en sy naam verander het na Abraham, was daar net een vader, van 'n menigte van nasies. Abraham beteken 'vader van 'n menigte van nasies' en Israel is een van die nasies en Abraham is ons almal se vader in geloof... Daar is nie 'n ander begin vir Israel, as wat daar vir die nasies is nie, want die verbond was van die begin bedoel vir die nasies en Israel was net die voertuig wat die verbond na die nasies geneem het. Veral in sekere kringe word die verbond met Abraham gesien as net vir Israel en dis totaal onwaar!
Nov 17th 2015, 10:41 AM
Hier is net iets wat ek waarneem en mens bespreek dit graag om dit beter te verstaan. Vir my is die insiggewende van 'Israel', die geweldige wedywering wat daar is om hierdie posisie van God se Israel te kan wees in al die onderstrominge wat mens so in jou eie wandel raaklees of raakloop. Die wedywering is eerstens of dit 'n geestelike Israel is of 'n fisiese Israel is en persoonlik glo ek dit is eintlik maar die debat. Om 'n geestelike konsep afgewater te kry, moet mens dit fisies of vleeslik maak en dit is juis in die fisiese, waar die misleiding in opgesluit is, omdat wat mense tasbaar kan sien, soveel van meeste se geloof daarstel.
In die fisiese, is daar baie interessante sieninge oor hoe mense hierdie posisie van Israel wil kaap. 'British Israelism' (BI) was moontlik een van die meer prominente pogings gewees, wat eintlik maar suiwer oor superioriteit handel. Wat is fisiese Israeliete in Israel vandag anders as oor supriotiteit teenoor ander nasies? Uit dit (BI) het wat ons in Suid-Afrika as die Israelvisie en later Israelwaarheid ontstaan (nuutste is Yisraelwaarheid om nog meer legimiteit deur Hebreeus te gee), van mense wat fisies wil bewys, hulle is eintlik maar die Israel van God. Sou ons net in die breë na SA kyk, stop dit egter nie hier nie, die Shembe's onder die Zoeloes, wat die 2de grootste 'Christelike' denominasie in Suid-Afrika is, naas die ZCC (Zioniste = ook maar fisiese Isael), beweer ook dat hulle die eintlike afstammelinge van fisiese Israel is...
Most of the members of the Shembe Church are Zulu and their church is located on a sacred site called Ekuphakameni, which is translated to mean ‘Place of Spiritual Upliftment’. Named by the founder of the Shembe Church, Isaiah Shembe, he was also the first to complete the Shembe Pilgrimage to the Holy Mountain (Nhlangakazi), as he was summoned to the mountain by God in 1916. It is said that God spoke to Isaiah Shembe as he did with Moses at Mount Sinai. Ekuphakameni is also home to the most sacred shrines and is where holy water is kept for ceremonies.
Ingevleg in al hierdie bewegings en iets wat bly ontwikkel, om Hebreeuse wortels en veral die wet en Ou Testamentiese gebruike en offers terug te bring. Dit is in wese bekend as die 'Hebrews Roots Movement'. Is dit nie maar waarteen Paulus baie in sy briewe gewaarsku het nie en ook Christus het in Sy 7 briewe aan die gemeentes in Asië, gewaarsku hieroor? Vele Chrsitelike denominasies het dan ook in die tyd toe hierdie beweging stukrag begin kry het, hul ontstaan gehad en is subtiel hierin vervleg. In my verstaan is enige denominasie wat fisiese Israel verhewe status gee, onder verdenking wat betref hul rol om fisiese Israel 'n unieke staanplek in ons dag te gee.
Sonder om Skrif te gee op hierdie stadium, is die uitdaging om te wys, wat was fisiese Israel se rol gewees om die verbond van God na die nasies te neem. As hierdie verbond nog nie by die nasies gekom het nie, het fisiese Israel steeds 'n rol en as die verbond reeds na die nasies gegaan het, het fisiese Israel geen rol meer om te speel nie. Die verbond het die belofte van heil en identiteit en burgerskap van God se volk en lê nie buite die verbond self nie. Hierdie laaste paragraaf glo ek, hou die sleutel in van mens se verstaan oor hierdie hele aangeleentheid rakende fisiese- versus geestelike Israel...
Nov 23rd 2015, 12:03 AM
Ferdi en Philip.
Ek volg julle gesprek hier en stem met alles saam. Dit is ‘n uiters interessante gesprek hierdie.
Net vir interessantheid; my belangstelling in Bybel-profesie het begin met die Philladelphian Trumpet. Ek het dit ontdek in ‘n Tandarts se spreekkamer in Villeria in Pretoria. Hy het my vertel hy weet nie hoekom die goed daar aankom nie; dit kom net daar aan. Toe gee hy hulle vir my. En daar het Ben se pad intens begin.
Natuurlik is die Philladelphian Trumpet die tydskrif van die PCG-groep (Philladelphian Church of God). Hulle is ‘n splintergroep van die destydse Worldwide Church of God van Armstrong. “British Israelism” dus. [Hulle het destyds die “Plain Truth” tydskrif publiseer – ‘n tydskrif wat my pa ook destyds gekry het en ek glad nie in belang gestel het as kind nie; ek onthou net die naam en my eie gung-ho benadering tot die lewe toe.] Ek het hul hele beker geledig.
So ek is met jou hierso. Ek sal hul ewig dankbaar wees dat hulle my op die pad geplaas het, al weet ek vandag hoe verkeerd dit is. Maar ek kwoteer nog gereeld interessante artikels van hulle en affiliate soos die CCG en RCG ensomeer omdat hulle soms interessante artikels plaas wat relefant is (sommige dinge het hul darem Bybels reg).
Maar hier is ‘n interessante artikel wat ek voel nie net hul fisiese Israel-ding demonstreer nie, maar tog interessante geskiedenis gee om te lees (reg en verkeerd):
The Temple Mount turf war is not new. The land, which rises 2,428 feet above sea level between the Kidron and Tyropoeon valleys, has passed through the hands of great civilizations and empires.
But it all started with the biblical patriarch Abraham. The first recorded mention of Mount Moriah comes from the book of Genesis. After rescuing his nephew Lot from four Canaanite kings, Abraham met with King Melchizedek at the base of the mount.
Jewish scholar Doctor Benjamin Mazar places the meeting between Abram and Melchizedek “king of Salem” (later renamed Jerusalem) “in the En-Rogel valley” (The Illustrated History of the Jews).
In his book Moriah, Andrew J. Gregg describes the location of the valley: “From En-Rogel, the view of Mt. Moriah is grand, as it towers above the valley.”
After a meal, Melchizedek blessed Abraham (Gen. 14:19-20).
That night, the patriarch was blessed further: “The word of the LORD came to Abram…and He brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if you be able to number them: and He said unto him, So shall your seed be” (Gen. 15:1-5).
The Hebrew word for abroad means “brought outside,” likely to the peak of Mount Moriah to look at the stars. Abraham then built an altar there and offered a sacrifice.
Later, the patriarch returned to the same spot after God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son. “And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood” (Gen. 22:9).
God spared Isaac and blessed Abraham for his faithfulness.
Abraham’s ties to Moriah do not end there. He had two sons: first, Ishmael (by Hagar, a handmaid), then Isaac (by his wife, Sarah).
Though Abraham passed the birthright to Isaac, Ishmael was also blessed—and his offspring became the Arab people. Ishmael’s 12 sons (Gen. 25:16) went on to form major Arab nations, not insignificant nomadic tribes as some believe. These peoples intermarried primarily with the Egyptians and were located south of Canaan, in the region of Arabia.
Isaac’s wife, Rebekah, had twins: Esau was the eldest and Jacob the younger. Esau also lost the birthright—instead, it went to Jacob.
Esau married Mahalath, the daughter of Ishmael (Gen. 28:9). The house of Esau, also known as the Edomites and Amalekites, gave rise millennia later to the Ottoman Turks, as well as the Seljuk Turks, who conquered and held most of Asia Minor, and the Caucasian Osmanli Turks, who controlled the Holy Land from A.D. 1070 until they surrendered it to the British in 1917.
Both Ishmael and Esau remained bitter for losing the birthright blessing. The jilted brothers jealously despised the descendants of Jacob (whom God renamed Israel).
This ancient family feud lingers today in the ongoing hostility between the Muslim Palestinians (the descendants of Esau and Ishmael) and the offspring of his brother Israel (the modern Jewish state, allied with the Anglo-Saxon peoples). These Western nations received Abraham’s birthright—the United States and United Kingdom, along with its commonwealth countries.
This backdrop frames the entire Mid-East conflict. And, like the skyline of the Old City of Jerusalem, the Temple Mount rises front and center in importance.
Israel Holds the Temple Mount
King David took Jerusalem about 1000 B.C. The book of II Samuel 5:7 reveals “the stronghold of Zion” is also “the City of David.” Zion is directly south of Mount Moriah.
Late in his life, David purchased the mount from Araunah the Jebusite for 600 shekels of gold. David constructed an altar there, which from that time was “the house of the LORD God” and “the altar of the burnt offering for Israel” (I Chron. 22:1). The aging king amassed the materials for the Temple, which his son Solomon completed.
The Temple was sided with immaculately cut white stone, which shone brightly in the sun. Twelve-foot walls surrounded the court and the porch at the entrance was about 200 feet high at its peak—about the height of a modern 20-story building. Two pillars stood at the front, each about 52 feet high and each made of at least 30 tons of brass.
During the golden days of King Solomon’s reign, Israel enjoyed peace.
But things changed. Under evil kings of Judah, Mount Moriah hosted numerous pagan deities: Tammuz, Molech and Ashtaroth.
For example, King Manasseh erected a wooden image to sex goddess Ashtaroth and placed it on Mount Moriah and built altars for the stars in the two courts of the Temple. He even sacrificed his son to Molech.
Simultaneously, hostile nations began attacking Israel. The Temple was looted by an Egyptian pharaoh. Later, Judah’s King Ahaz stripped Temple gold to buy Assyria’s protection.
David’s descendants did not hold the mount for very long.
Enter the Babylonians. Nebuchadnezzar II seized the Temple Mount and burned Solomon’s Temple to the ground, looting the gold and silver and sacred vessels (II Kings 24:10-13).
The Persians defeated Babylon and took the Jewish slaves.
Persian King Cyrus sent the Jews back to Jerusalem to rebuild the Temple (Ezra 1:1). Under the auspices of Zerubbabel, Ezra and Nehemiah, the Jews worked for 21 years to complete the Temple in 515 B.C. This second structure was of lesser quality than the first.
After the life of Alexander the Great, his four generals grappled for control of Jerusalem. The Seleucid kingdom (started by one of Alexander’s generals) finally took Jerusalem around 200 B.C.
Seleucid King Antiochus IV appointed his own high priest for the Temple, allowing him to more easily Hellenize the Jewish religion. Using this “puppet” priest, Antiochus forced the Jews to worship idols and eat pork (The Illustrated History of the Jews). He also forbade circumcision, which he viewed as mutilation, and erected a statue of Zeus on the mount, sacrificing pigs upon the altar. The Jewish Encyclopedia correctly identifies the transformation “of the sacred Temple at Jerusalem into a heathen one” as one of the fulfillments of the “abomination that makes desolate” mentioned in Daniel 11:31.
The actions of Antiochus led to the successful Maccabean revolution. The Romans took over the land in 63 B.C., and held the city for the next 500 years.
Herod the Great, whose father was an Edomite (Esau) and mother was an Arab (Ishmael), received kingship of Judea from Rome in 40 B.C. After some resistance, he convinced the Jews to allow him to renovate the Temple and bring it to perfection (he also built it as a memorial to himself). Herod enlarged the mount to the size it is today. Some foundation stones were 40 feet long and over 600 tons, or 1.2 million pounds!
This was the same Temple, which took 46 years to complete, that Jesus visited throughout His life.
After yet another Jewish rebellion, Titus of Rome laid siege to Jerusalem, encircling it with armies. Once taken, Titus burned the Temple in A.D. 70 (exactly 656 years after the destruction of Solomon’s). The event echoes Christ’s warning in Luke 21:20: “And when you shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is near.” Armies surrounding Jerusalem is another clue to the abomination of desolation.
Roman soldiers looted the structure, dismantling every stone to pry out the melted gold. Titus then carried his spoils to Rome, including the Menorah and other sacred vessels.
Roman General Hadrian in A.D. 136 built a temple to Jupiter, which was likely placed to the south of the mount, desecrating the site with a pagan statue and placing a bronze image of himself in the courtyard.
Between, 330-640, the mount fell into disrepair and became a dump.
Muslim Conquest, Christian Crusades
By year 700, Muslims took Jerusalem and built a wooden al-Aqsa Mosque on the foundation of Hadrian’s Temple to Jupiter. The Dome of the Rock was likely built on the remains of a Roman hexagonal entrance hall to the north.
Soon, Catholics controlled the mount. Christian Crusaders violently seized the Holy Land and, in the early 12th century, reconstructed an earthquake-damaged al-Aqsa Mosque as the Temple Solomonis (headquarters of the fabled Knights Templar) and the Dome of the Rock, renamed the Temple Domini. Crusaders revamped both buildings, adding altars, icons, new mosaics and Christian inscriptions—crosses replaced all crescent moons (Crusader Archaeology, Adrian J. Boas).
Muslims recaptured their Haram al-Sharif in 1187, reclaiming the two mosques on the mount. Islamic followers purged the Catholic icons and renovated the marble mosaics and inscriptions.
Islam saturated the region. The Islamic missionaries who most vigorously spread their religion through violence were those of the lineage of Esau, which include the Turks.
Even in the Holy Land, Islam’s incremental influence was accompanied by population shifts: “The spread of Islam introduced a very considerable Neo-Arabian infusion. Those from southern Arabia were known as the Yaman [a son of Esau] tribe, those from northern Arabia, the Kais (Qais). These two divisions absorbed the previous peasant population, and still nominally exist [as of 1910]; down to the middle of the 19th century they were a fruitful source of quarrels and of bloodshed” (Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th ed.).
Until 1917, Muslims controlled the mount and Jerusalem, when Britain took Jerusalem, and the first European visitors were allowed on the Temple Mount since 1187.
Even today, the ancient grudge match continues between the descendants of Abraham: The Palestinians and Israelis have daggers drawn in an uneasy stalemate atop the mount.
Though Abraham’s descendants have had the spotlight, the likes of Babylon and Rome are also entangled in the drama on the Temple Mount.
The text of the Bible is much more than Hebrew literature or historical text—it also outlines how future events will unfold on today’s Noble Sanctuary.
For example, the actions of Antiochus IV and Titus were only types of a coming desolation of the Temple Mount. Again, Jesus said, “When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso reads, let him understand)” (Matt. 24:15). This event is preceded by “Jerusalem compassed with armies.”
When will these events occur? The prophet Daniel places their fulfillment at the “time of the end” (Dan. 11:40). This is in the near future. And the system of the long-forgotten players—Rome and Babylon—will return with a starring role.
The board is set. The pieces are in motion. Who will stand victorious on the Temple Mount?