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06-12-2005, 06:27 AM #11
Dank my af! daag Zuma Mbeki uit
Johannesburg. - Adj.pres. Jacob Zuma het pres. Thabo Mbeki effektief uitgedaag om hom af te dank.
Hy het vir Mbeki in sy gesig gesê om hom "uit te los". Dit het die tafel gedek vir Mbeki om Zuma af te dank as adjunkpresident, moontlik môre reeds of later wanneer Mbeki terugkeer van 'n ampsbesoek aan Katar in die Midde-Ooste.
Die Zuma/Mbeki-tweestryd het die spanning in die ANC in die naweek tot breekpunt opgejaag. Die party se nasionale werkkomitee vergader weer môre om die krisis te bespreek te midde van aanduidings dat die komitee reg in die middel verdeel is.
Ingeligte bronne in die ANC wat nie hul name genoem wil hê nie het gesê Zuma en Mbeki het die afgelope week persoonlike ontmoet. Daar het Zuma vir Mbeki gesê hy weier om te bedank.
In die lig van Zuma se uitdagende houding word aanvaar dat adv. Vusi Pikoli, nasionale direkteur van openbare vervolgings, nou 'n sleutelspeler in die ontvouende drama geword het. Hy moet spoedig besluit of Zuma vervolg gaan word ná die bevinding van regter Hilary Squires dat die adjunkpresident en sy raadgewer, mnr. Schabir Shaik, 'n "algemeen korrupte" verhouding gehad het.
Gesaghebbende regsadvies aan Pikoli is dat dit "onmoontlik en wetlik onverdedigbaar" is om Zuma nié aan te kla nie. 'n Formele aanklag kan Zuma dwing om sy amp in oneer te ontruim of om te onderhandel vir 'n waardige uittrede - wat onwaarskynlik lyk.
Zuma het in die naweek voortgegaan om steun op te vorder. Gister het hy 'n slag geslaan toe die ANC se Vroueliga ook hul gewig by hom ingegooi het. Hy het glo ook die steun gekry van sekere weermaggeneraals wat destyds onder hom gedien het in MK, die ANC se gewapende vleuel.
'n Senior regeringsbron het gesê die polisie, die weermag en die intelligensiediens het teenoor Mbeki aangedui hulle sal niks toelaat wat die grondwetlike orde in die land uitdaag nie.
Dit het die afgelope week gegons oor oudpres. Nelson Mandela se besluit om hom by Zuma te skaar. Hy het Zuma glo by 'n ontmoeting aangeraai om nie te bedank nie.
'n ANC-premier het gesê dit lyk of Mandela meer gemotiveer was deur die renons wat hy in Mbeki het as deur enigiets anders.
ANC-leiers na aan Mbeki sê die wyse waarop Zuma steun werf, word met "afgryse" gadegeslaan. Die mense bly in gebreke om te onderskei tussen die ANC en die regering, sê hulle.
Net die ANC se leierskap kan besluit oor Zuma se posisie as adjunkpresident van die ANC.
Maar ingevolge die Grondwet besluit Mbeki "as uitvoerende hoof van die land" wie in sy kabinet dien. Nóg die nasionale Grondwet nóg die ANC-grondwet sê die adjunkpresident van die regerende party moet ook die adjunkpresident van die land wees, volgens die bron.
06-13-2005, 03:49 AM #12
Miskien weet Zuma iets wat ons nie weet nie!!!
Hy het dalk vir Mbeki in 'n wengreep en nou klou hy vir al wat hy werd is?
Soos jy tereg se Ouman, dit is net verloor vorentoe!
Ek sit nou aan iets en dink... ek lees gister indie rapport, dat Mandela self, vir Zuma aangeraai het om NIE te bedank nie.
Nou Mbeki, as president van die land, kan self besluit wie in sy kabinet moet sit, so hy het ten volle die reg om vir Zuma af te dank.
Nou wat maak Zuma so vol self vertroue dat hy Mbeki uitdaag om hom af te dank?
1. OF Zuma het iets om Mbeki wat hom sal laat stilbly
2. OF Mandela hou Mbeki in toom, en daarom dat hy vir Zuma gese het om nie te bedank nie...
3. OF Zuma is bewus daarvan dat sy ondersteunersgroep baie groter is as die van Mbeki.
Maar wat my pla is dit:
1. Hoekom steun Mandela ('n Xhoza), vir Zuma ('n Zoeloe)? Mens sou tog dink dat hy agter sy opvolger sou staan?
2. Hoeveel mag het Mandela nog, as hy hierdie tipe advies vir Zuma gee? Hy sal dit nie doen as hy nie WEET dat hy kan nie?
3. As Mbeki vir Mandela as 'n bedreiging sien, (in terme dat Mandela vir Zuma steun), wat is die kans dat Mbeki sal sorg dat Mandela uitgehaal word?
Sommer net gedagtes, sal daarvan hou om julle opinies te hoor.
06-13-2005, 05:55 AM #14
jy kan dan mooi deur dir lyne lees, n rukkie treug het die anc a bosberaad gehou,toe Mandela die anc aanvat oor die AIDS, toe lag en koggel hulle vir mandela uit. ek dink mandela besef dat hy sy mag en beheer in die anc verloor, en weet dat die anc op die verkeerder pad is, maar is magteloos om dit te stop. hy probeer dalk deur zuma om weer sy mag treug te kry.
dit maak jou punt 3. moontlik, en as mandela sy steun swaai na zoeloe se kant toe, kan daar ook groot drama kom.
06-13-2005, 06:08 AM #15
Embattled Zuma looks to ANC
Deputy President Jacob Zuma has said he is prepared and ready to become an ordinary member of the ANC, the SABC reported on Sunday.
Zuma delivered an emotional address to the Congress of South African Trade Unions (Cosatu) Shop Stewards Council in Durban.
"I have served as a branch member with no position (as an) ordinary activist and I have served with some responsibilities in a branch and I have served at many levels. I will always be ready to do that, even today. The day the ANC says do this I will do it," Zuma said reaffirming his commitment to the ANC.
This followed calls for his resignation from various quarters in the wake of the Shabir Shaik fraud and corruption trial.
Zuma was implicated in the trial in which Shaik was sentenced to 15 years in prison.
Zuma said he was ready to take orders from the ANC and its alliance partners, but would not be dictated to by the media.
06-13-2005, 09:03 AM #16
Verskoon my taal, gatkruip vir geld en status, dit is wat jy dit noem. Bang hy verloor die "Golden Handshake!!
Zuma: net 'n gewone lid?
Adj.pres. Jacob Zuma sê hy is bereid om weer net as 'n gewone lid van die ANC te dien as die party dit vereis.
Die nasionale ANC het hom nog nie oor Zuma se toekoms uitgelaat nie, hoewel sommige provinsiale kantore, waaronder dié van KwaZulu-Natal, hulle by hom skaar.
Mnr. Smuts Ngonyama, ANC- woordvoerder, het gisteraand gesê die ANC en die regering kyk nog na die hofuitspraak. Hy kon steeds nie sê wanneer hulle hierop sal reageer nie.
Zuma het gister op 'n Cosatu-byeenkoms in Durban gesê hy sal luister na die ANC en sy alliansievennote se opdragte, maar nie na die media nie, berig Sapa .
"Ek het gedien as 'n gewone taklid sonder enige posisie, (as 'n) gewone aktivis, ek het gedien met sommige verantwoordelikhede in 'n tak en ek het gedien op verskeie vlakke," het Zuma gesê. "Ek is reg om dit (weer) te doen, selfs vandag. Die dag dat die ANC sê doen dit, sal ek dit doen."
Mnr. Kgalema Motlanthe, ANC- sekretaris-generaal, wou hom nie uitlaat oor deurlopende berigte dat hy en ander Zuma in opdrag van pres. Thabo Mbeki probeer oorreed het om te bedank nie.
Intussen neem die bespiegeling toe dat Mbeki hom op die regstelsel kan verlaat om sy adjunk se toekoms te bepaal. Só kan Mbeki verdere verdeeldheid in die alliansie vermy en Suid-Afrika se aansien probeer red deur die land se status as regstaat te beklemtoon, het ontleders gister gesê.
In 'n moontlike aanduiding van wat Mbeki beplan, het die ANC se vroueliga, wat na aan hom is, beklemtoon dat die eenheid van die regerende alliansie voorkeur kry en dat Zuma nie in 'n hof skuldig bevind is nie. Die liga meen dat eise dat Zuma bedank, ongegrond is.
"Hy was nie in die hof nie; hy is nie skuldig bevind nie en totdat dit gebeur, as enigiets amptelik word, het ons nie 'n besluit hieroor geneem nie," het me. Angie Motshekga namens die vroueliga gesê.
Intussen het mnr. Zwelinzima Vavi, sekretaris-generaal van Cosatu, die naweek gesê Zuma moet vervolg word.
"Voordat ons die toekoms en loopbaan van enigiemand onder 'n wolk van ernstige aantygings afskryf, moet ons daardie mens kans gee om hom in 'n hof te verdedig," het Vavi aan die Sunday Times gesê. Hy het gesê Cosatu sal sy steun onttrek as 'n hof Zuma aan korrupsie skuldig bevind.
Deur nie teen Zuma op te tree nie, kan Mbeki verdere verdeeldheid in die alliansie vermy, en as Zuma vervolg sou word, kan hy op internasionale verhoë sê Suid- Afrika laat die gereg sy gang gaan.
" 'n Mens vermoed pres. Mbeki is besig om 'n gesofistikeerde strategie in te stel sodat daar konsensus in die ANC kan wees én Suid- Afrika sy internasionale geloofwaardigheid behou," het prof. Susan Booysen, politieke ontleder, gister gesê.
Mbeki vertrek vanaand of môre na Katar en Zuma neem as president waar tot hy Donderdag terugkeer.
06-13-2005, 09:32 AM #17
Will Mbeki do 'the right thing'?
June 13 2005 at 07:46AM
A massively divided ANC stands at its first major political crossroads – ahead of what is predicted to be the politically contentious dismissal of Jacob Zuma.
Highly placed political sources told The Star on Sunday that President Thabo Mbeki had spent the past four days consulting with senior ANC members, particularly provincial leaders, communicating his decision to remove Deputy President Zuma.
Every member of the ANC, whether in favour or against retaining Zuma as deputy president, is looking to Mbeki to “do the right thing” following Judge Hilary Squires’ judgment that Zuma and convicted fraudster Schabir Shaik had a “generally corrupt” relationship.
'I belong to an organisation'
“The right thing”, according to supporters of Mbeki, is for the president to live up to his promise to rid the government and the ANC of corruption.
On the other hand, the right thing, according to Zuma supporters, would be for Mbeki to ignore Squires’ judgment and to retain a man who has proved to be hugely popular within the ANC.
Does Mbeki stand up to corruption or does he take a decision that will further divide the ANC?
Irrespective of which way he sways, the damage has been done.
A clear political line has been drawn and the relationship between Mbeki and Zuma will from now on be a difficult – almost untenable – one.
'The president made a promise and I expect him to keep his promise'
Amid intense speculation that Mbeki was on the verge of firing him, Zuma has remained defiant about his political future.
At a meeting of Cosatu shop stewards in Durban on Sunday, Zuma said it was the members of the ANC – and not Mbeki – who held his fate in their hands.
“I belong to an organisation, and if a decision is to be made, that’s where it must come from. I hope one day this country will be right – that we could respect the rights of every citizen, not to choose which ones to respect,” Zuma said.
However, while Mbeki is sure to consult the ANC’s membership widely before deciding whether to fire Zuma, despite his deputy’s words to the contrary, it remains Mbeki’s constitutional right to choose and also terminate the services of those in his cabinet.
Mbeki and Zuma were expected to meet face to face on Monday as speculation intensified that Mbeki could fire Zuma from his cabinet.
The two were due to attend a meeting of the ANC’s top officials at the party’s Luthuli House headquarters in Johannesburg this morning, ANC spokesperson Smuts Ngonyama confirmed.
Significantly, on the eve of the meeting, Zuma said he was at the party’s mercy and was willing to be deployed as the deeply divided organisation saw fit.
“From the time I joined the ANC, I have always been led. I have served at many levels. I’ll always be ready to be led.
“I am ready to become an ordinary member of the ANC. It has never been about leadership, but about my mandate.
“Why do I want to become the president, as the media says? It’s a matter of deployment, not choice,” Zuma told Cosatu’s shop stewards.
Presidential spokesperson Bheki Khumalo said Mbeki was still expected to make an announcement about Zuma’s fate.
“The president made a promise and I expect him to keep his promise. As for when that will happen, I am as in the dark as you are,” Khumalo said.
Ngonyama said Mbeki had only received the judgment last Monday and was meant to study it before the party could comment further.
“The president is supposed to read through it first and we will be in a position to comment once we have read the judgment.”
This comes after a week in which Zuma’s supporters in alliance partners Cosatu and the South African Communist Party, as well as the ANC’s Youth League, have rallied to his defence.
At the weekend, another influential ANC voice, the Women’s League, rang out in Zuma’s favour.
ANCWL spokesperson Charlotte Lobe said a two-day meeting of its national executive in Johannesburg had resolved that Zuma should not step down.
“Our view is that the deputy president has never been on trial and he has never been found guilty of anything,” said Lobe.
Asked what the Women’s League’s attitude would be if Mbeki fired Zuma, she said: “We will cross that bridge when we come to it.”
In Durban on Sunday, Zuma also hinted strongly that there was more to what is happening currently than meets the eye, saying it was a political attack on him and that he “fortunately” knew where it came from.
However, he did not provide details, saying it was not the right time to do so.
06-13-2005, 09:37 AM #18
Mandela: I will not get involved in Zuma saga
Former president Nelson Mandela spent Thursday in Norway's capital, Oslo, apparently out in the cold in terms of the biggest crisis facing his party since the African National Congress came to power.
Mandela, who earlier this week was briefed by both ANC Secretary-General Kgalema Motlanthe and Deputy President Jacob Zuma, would only say: "I will not get involved in this matter."
Mandela, whose relationship with President Thabo Mbeki is icy at best, has in the past turned to Zuma to mediate on his behalf with Mbeki.
'He gave his advice and that's the end of it'
Relations soured between Mbeki and Mandela, especially over the government's approach to the HIV/Aids pandemic.
Mandela's attempts to intervene, behind closed doors, resulted in the elder statesman being heckled by Mbeki's supporters at an ANC national executive committee meeting in March 2002.
The antipathy between the president and his predecessor would rule out any mediation role for Mandela over the Zuma issue, according to Mandela's supporters.
Mandela refused to comment on a Business Day editorial which lambasted him for "failing to press Zuma to do the honourable thing and resign".
His spokesperson, Zelda la Grange, would only say that Mandela had held meetings with Motlanthe and Zuma.
Mandela is in Norway to host his 46664 concert
"He gave his advice and that's the end of it. He will not go into detail," she said.
Mandela is in Norway to host his 46664 anti-Aids concert.
Reuters reported on Thursday that he was expected to urge the group of eight industrialised countries, the leaders of which meet in Scotland next month and who will be addressed by Mbeki, to do more to fight Aids.
06-13-2005, 09:42 AM #19
Zuma turns on the charm
Deputy President Jacob Zuma, in his most crucial political fight, has gone on a massive charm offensive to reinforce his support base.
In his utterances since his friend and financial adviser Schabir Shaik was convicted of fraud and corruption, Zuma has been consistent in playing the part of a man victimised by opposition political parties and the media.
However, the powerful politician, who was found by Judge Hilary Squires to have been involved in a corrupt relationship with Shaik, has failed to answer three pertinent questions:
'The media have used this case for political reasons'
That he negotiated and accepted a bribe from arms manufacturer Thales;
That he lied to parliament by submitting a loan agreement found to be false by Squires; and that he was in a corrupt relationship with Shaik.
Instead of answering these questions, Zuma has repeatedly said that he has not been charged with any crime and that he has not been in a court of law.
On Thursday, during an imbizo in East London, Zuma said the media had treated him in a "grossly unfair" way and had used the Shaik trial for political reasons. Zuma told business and political leaders at a breakfast in East London that he had been tried and convicted by the media.
"The media have used this case for political reasons," he said.
"Every time they talked about the case, they talked about the problem of politics."
Zuma said he had never been given a chance to answer the charges against him. "In this country, we have a constitution that every citizen has a right that they must be taken to court, be tried and be heard, and at the end a judgment be made. That chance was never given to me. The judgment was for someone else."
The deputy president's charm offensive seems to have worked. In the past five days, he has received "pastoral support, sustenance and prayers" from the South African Council of Churches. He has also received overwhelming support from the ANC caucus in parliament, the ANC in KwaZulu-Natal, Zulu King Goodwill Zwelithini - with whom he attended an Mbongeni Ngema play in Johannesburg this week - and from the Young Communist League.
In Johannesburg on Thursday, an ANC Youth League march to demand jobs for the youth turned into a Zuma support rally. The youths, wearing T-shirts which read "Zuma 100 percent" on the front and "Innocent until proven guilty" on the back, called for Zuma to be the next president.
In the Eastern Cape, where Zuma is spending two days on a government imbizo programme, support was also forthcoming for the man fighting to remain deputy president.
Zuma's helicopter was welcomed everywhere by crowds and a group of women singing "they are telling lies about you" greeted Zuma at Keiskammahoek near King William's Town.
In a matter of days, President Thabo Mbeki is expected to announce whether he will support Zuma and keep him on as his deputy or fire him.
Four days ago, Mbeki said he had received and was studying the Squires judgment and would pronounce on how it affected the government. It will be the most difficult political decision he has had to make in a leadership position since the advent of democracy in South Africa.
Mbeki arrived back from Chile on Thursday after a two-day official visit to the Latin American country, where he held discussions with Chilean President Ricardo Escobar.
Mbeki's spokesperson Bheki Khumalo said the president's first engagement on his return would be today, when he was due to attend a joint sitting of parliament to bid farewell to retired Chief Justice Arthur Chaskalson.
06-13-2005, 11:04 AM #20
Zuma sê hy sal luister as ANC praat
JOHANNESBURG. - Adj.pres. Jacob Zuma het gister op 'n Cosatu-byeenkoms in Durban gesê hy is bereid om weer net as 'n gewone lid van die ANC te dien as die party dit vereis.
Die nasionale ANC het nog nie 'n standpunt oor Zuma se toekoms ingeneem nie, hoewel sommige provinsiale kantore, waaronder dié van KwaZulu-Natal, hulle by hom skaar.
Zuma het gisteraand in Durban gesê hy sal luister na die ANC en sy alliansievennote se opdragte, maar nie na die media nie, berig Sapa .
"Ek het al as 'n gewone taklid sonder enige amp gedien," het Zuma gesê. "Ek is reg om dit (weer) te doen, selfs vandag. Die dag dat die ANC sê, doen dit, sal ek dit doen."
Mnr. Kgalema Motlantle, sekretaris-generaal van die ANC, wou hom gister nie uitlaat oor deurlopende berigte dat hy en andere Zuma in opdrag van pres. Thabo Mbeki probeer oorreed het om te bedank nie.
Intussen neem die bespiegeling toe dat Mbeki hom op die regstelsel kan verlaat om sy adjunk se toekoms te bepaal. Só kan Mbeki verdere verdeeldheid binne die alliansie vermy en Suid-Afrika se aansien probeer red deur die land se status as regstaat te beklemtoon, het ontleders gister gesê.
In 'n moontlike aanduiding van wat Mbeki beplan, het die ANC se vroueliga (ANCVL), wat naby hom is, eergister beklemtoon dat die eenheid van die regerende alliansie voorkeur kry en dat Zuma nie in 'n hof skuldig bevind is nie. Die liga meen eise dat Zuma bedank, is ongegrond.
"Hy was nie in die hof nie; hy is nie skuldig bevind nie en totdat dit gebeur, as enigiets formeel word, het ons nie 'n besluit hieroor geneem nie," het me. Angie Motshekga namens die ANCVL gesê.
Intussen het mnr. Zwelinzima Vavi, sekretaris-generaal van Cosatu, die naweek gesê Zuma moet vervolg word. "Voordat ons die toekoms en loopbaan van enigiemand onder 'n wolk van ernstige aantygings afskryf, moet ons daardie mens kans gee om hom in 'n hof te verdedig," het Vavi aan Sunday Times gesê.
Hy het beklemtoon dat Cosatu sy steun sal onttrek as 'n hof Zuma aan korrupsie skuldig bevind.
Deur nie self teen Zuma op te tree nie, kan Mbeki verdere verdeeldheid in die alliansie vermy, en as Zuma vervolg sou word, kan Mbeki op inter nasionale verhoë sê Suid-Afrika laat die gereg sy loop neem.
" 'n Mens vermoed pres. Mbeki is besig om 'n gesofistikeerde strategie in te stel sodat daar konsensus binne die ANC kan wees én Suid-Afrika sy internasionale geloofwaardigheid behou," het prof. Susan Booysen, politieke ontleder, gister gesê.
Prof. André Duvenhage, hoof van die Universiteit van die Vrystaat se program vir staatsbestuur en transformasie, meen Mbeki moet kragdadiger optree. "Hy moet die belang van die staat en sy eie verbintenisse tot skoon regering veral voor volgende maand se G8-beraad teen die belang van eenheid in die ANC opweeg," het hy gesê. "As pa van die Nepad-inisiatief sal hy op die G8-beraad wil wys Afrika se belofte oor sy verbintenis tot skoon regering is waar."
Ondanks 'n onderneming dat Mbeki gou sy besluit oor Zuma bekend sou maak, was daar teen gisteraand nog geen aanduiding dat hy hom sou uitspreek voordat hy vanaand na Katar vertrek nie.
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