Posted: Wed Jan 31st, 2018 04:55 pm
VaalieBassman wrote: Daar is nog baie groter faktore wat almal se hengel beinvloed en wat baie erger is as wat die baars voorgegee word....nette. Ons as baars hengelaars het al menigte maal nette uit verskillende damme gahaal. Veral Rhenosterkop dam. Km en km van nette wat ons dan verbrand! Die meeste vis in die nette is ook kurpers!
Daar is ander faktore wat ook 'n baie groot rol speel in die vermindering van inheemse vis o.a. nettery, besoedeling ens en ek verstaan dit so. Die grootste bedreiging vir ons Bloukurpers daar waar dit saam voorkom is die Nylkurper juis oor die feit dat dit met ons kurpers uitbaster, maar daar waar baars saam met ons inheemse vis voorkom is die baars absoluut verantwoordelik saam met ander faktore vir die vernietiging van ons inheemse vis. Dit wat jy sê in jou 2 de pargraaf maak nou absoluut geen sin nie. Wat jy dan nou sê is dat as ander hengelaars net soos baarshengelaars hulle vis teruggooi daar baie meer vis sal wees. Dit is dan nou juis die punt wat ons hier wil maak, dit is a.g.v die terugplaas van baars dat daar geen meer inheemse vis oor is nie daarom moet dit uitgehaal word. Die regte spesies moet teruggeplaas word en nie die spesies wat destruktief is nie. Malboer is reg daar is 'n wet wat ingestel is wat sê dat jy nie meer baars mag teruggooi in sekere stelsels nie soos byvoorbeeld Loskopdam. Gaan kry gerus die Februarie uitgawe van die STYWE LYNE en gaan lees op bladsy 11 wat gesê word oor uitheemse vis en dan nou baars.
Posted: Thu Feb 1st, 2018 12:59 pm
Here is a revelation for you.. Bass have been here in SA since 1928 when 45 fish were brought here. All of our black bass in South Africa came from 45 fish, except for the later introduction of florida strain. All of our smallmouth came from 27 fish that arrived in 1937. If you or the lawmakers think that making the release of fish after catching to be illegal, is going to do anything to the stock of bass in this country, you are both dreaming..Adapt or die is the way of nature.. I think that our failed waterworks and industrial pollution is of more threat to our local species as of now, not talking about the past. And the government and their k@k policies is a huge threat too, not too long ago they were trying to open up "subsistance" gillnetting of our inheemse vissies in dams still containing major breeding stock of yellowfish species etc. BTW what ever happened to that?
The fish that have been wiped by the bass have been wiped long ago and have already adapted. In my local dam which has big blue kurper, eel, carp, barbel and smallmouth and black bass. All are not indigenous to the system except the eel and kurper, even the barbel was introduced past the escarpment by the gariep pipeline system and they walked west themselves and caused chaos in local fish species (correct me if I am wrong) and is a man-made issue but hey, we can't roll back time. The kurper are doing quite fine in that dam, which by itself is man made and should not be there in the first place, but hey PE has to drink water from somewhere so hey, gotta do what ya gotta do. In fact there is one huge arm of that dam where you will struggle to catch a bass as the kurper bully them out and breed there. Big bull kurpers will think nothing to beat up on a mamma bass. Kurper if they can keep the bluegills off nests (which are a bigger threat to them) can make a lot of spawn. In fact look at sandvlei (nature reserve) in cape town where I have seen the biggest kurper, and carp of my life, where kurper co-exist quite fine with leervis, elf, cob, bass, mullet and carp..Not that I'd eat anything from there as it is so polluted with heavy metals from paint and automotive industry in retreat and further upstream, but even there they regularly catch poachers and gillnetting operations there so is the bass the biggest threat really?
The ONLY way to eliminate a fish from a system is with rotenone. You will wipe out most life though for a short time and not just your target fish. You can not release fish that you catch on rod and line,till the cows come home and you will never eliminate a fish species. All that you do is remove the smaller and stupid fish and there ends up being more food for the larger and smarter fish who end up bigger and more fertile and as we know the fish who are largest, oldest and more fertile release exponentially more eggs that have a 10x higher survival rate than eggs from younger fish with lower oil contents in their yolk. Dreaming as I said..
Do a favour and scroll down to the lunkers caught in SA further down the page and see how many have been caught and released. And then imagine how many millions of eggs each one has released in the interim, billions and billions between then and now and think how all our bass can trace their origins to 45 fish and you will see that shouting at others to not release bass is quite pointless. They (bass) are here to stay, you may as well accept it and start shouting at government to start making more hatcheries, start with real fisheries management instead and start clamping down on polluters and broken sewage and storm water systems, rather. The biggest thing that affects most fish stocks globally, inland or sea no matter is our industry, development, pollution and our predation.
Also whats up with the stuck emoticons button?
Last edited on Thu Feb 1st, 2018 01:10 pm by Dr halibut hoffman
Posted: Thu Feb 1st, 2018 01:25 pm
I do like the beer ha ha ha.
See what good looking fish they are.
These are from my aquaponics system
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Last edited on Thu Feb 1st, 2018 01:37 pm by Malboer
Posted: Thu Feb 1st, 2018 01:28 pm
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Posted: Thu Feb 1st, 2018 04:19 pm
Kurper are beautiful fish..nice one !
Posted: Thu Feb 1st, 2018 04:22 pm
Bass have been introduced worldwide and eaten local species all over the place..I wonder if they have ever been successfully eradicated anywhere ever where they are introduced? Curious here..
Posted: Thu Feb 1st, 2018 04:23 pm
uDr halibut hoffman wrote: Here is a revelation for you.. Bass have been here in SA since 1928 when 45 fish were brought here. All of our black bass in South Africa came from 45 fish, except for the later introduction of florida strain. All of our smallmouth came from 27 fish that arrived in 1937. If you or the lawmakers think that making the release of fish after catching to be illegal, is going to do anything to the stock of bass in this country, you are both dreaming..Adapt or die is the way of nature.. I think that our failed waterworks and industrial pollution is of more threat to our local species as of now, not talking about the past. And the government and their k@k policies is a huge threat too, not too long ago they were trying to open up "subsistance" gillnetting of our inheemse vissies in dams still containing major breeding stock of yellowfish species etc. BTW what ever happened to that?
Dagsê Dr Hoffman ek is ongelukkig nie Engelssprekend nie dus gaan ek maar in Afrikaans tik ek gee ook nie werklik om wat gedink word van my gesiggies nie dus gaan ek hulle weer plaas sodra ek klaar getik is. Nommer een ek het dit al gesê en ek sal dit weer sê daar is wel ander destruktiewe faktore wat 'n rol speel in die vermindering van ons plaaslike vis en ek ontken nie dat nettery, besoedeling ens nie 'n hulle tol eis op ons vis nie en dit is baie sleg. Die hele punt wat hier gemaak word is dat baars 'n groot impak het op die vernietiging van al ons inheemse vis daar waar dit voorkom. Vergeet vir 'n oomblik van die ander faktore wat 'n rol speel dit het 'n absolute impak op al ons vis, dit is net vir my altyd snaaks dat sodra jy as persoon die impak van baars op ons vis noem dat die baarshengelaar dit nie kan of wil raak sien nie en altyd ander faktore as die ware probleem van ons inheemse vis uitwys. Rakende jou eie vis in jou dam, miskien het jou baars nog net nie 'n impak op jou vis gehad nie maar kan of gaan dalk nog hê, ek ken nie jou opset of jou visgetalle nie dus kan ek nie met sekerheid sê nie. Baie damme in ons land se getalle van inheemse vis is al baie minder of dalk al heeltemal uitgewis a.g.v. predatore soos baars. Ek weet nie of jy die foto's gesien het wat ek hierbo geplaas het nie maar as dit jou nie oortuig dat baars skade aanrig nie dan weet ek nie wat sal nie. Ek sal dit ook nie aanvaar soos jy gesê het nie, die bewaring van al ons inheemse vis is vir my baie belangrik en lê my na aan die hart so hoekom moet ek aanvaar dat 'n uitheemse vis dit alles gaan vernietig. Miskien moet julle introspeksie doen en julleself die vraag afvra "maar moet ONS dit aanvaar" dat ons inheemse vis moontlik uitgewis gaan word, kyk na die groter prentjie, maar ongelukkig bly mense dit ontken want wat gee hulle om. Derdens ek skree op niemand nie en probeer net die skille van mense se oë af te haal vir die wat 'n realiteit is in van ons waterstelsels.
Posted: Thu Feb 1st, 2018 04:36 pm
Miskien is dit amper onmoontlik om al die Baars uit te wis, maar daar is derduisende baarshengelaars wat elke naweek visvang en as elkeen dalk net sy visse uithaal kan jy dalk weer die regte balans kry in 'n sisteem. Elke bietjie help en daardie een of twee wat jy uithaal kan moontlik keer dat daar honderde of duisende klein vissies doodgaan,
Posted: Thu Feb 1st, 2018 04:41 pm
Just for interest i don't think they have been. And dont think they will be here.
Funny story is that mocambicus comonly known as blue kurper have been exported all over the world. Where they have been let loose they have become the invasive species and is the cause of total decimation of native fish species in some parts. Here we cant even keep a healthy sustainable fishery of them. Just goes to show don't mess with nature. Passop ek teel klomp sodat hul die bass opvreet ha ha ha
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Last edited on Thu Feb 1st, 2018 04:49 pm by Malboer
Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2018 01:45 am
moenie worry nie, veral nie by nigel dam nie.
ons het n paar subsistence hengelaars daar.
hulle trek die bass een na die ander een uit. so erg dat ons sukkel om bass te vang.....
maar dan ook, het ek al gehoor dat die karpe net sulke groot blikskottels is.
hulle suig n hele bass nes eiers sommer met een slag op.
Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2018 02:30 pm
Ja, Willem, my point, with a rod and line you will just favour large and smart fish if you cull what you catch..with a net you wipe stuff out quickly. I found only one instance of clearing bass out of a system in the world, when i looked it up, it was smallmouth in a system in the western cape somewhere..They had to use rotenone..Insects life is still affected by the treatment two years later but bass are gone.
Anyway, my point was you will achieved more for the local species if you focus on the other factors instead on ignoring them. The fish will take care of themselves..In florida in the states you will find canals of alligators, huge bass, peacock bass (pest), and kurper that are introduced..Nature makes a plan..The small gieliminkies get nailed but every small town has their town dump and tip/landfill in the spring hidden in a kloof feeding the stream where they live so focus on that? Or get government to clear out systems that can actually can get cleared out (due to geographical factors more than anything) and stop shouting at bass fishermen with a thousand emoticons in every post..
I tell you what, bass were brought here for a reason, and that is the fact that they are keen to take a lure, agressive and a f'king jol to catch. And they are decent to eat when coming from clean waters, of which our country has less and less. I keep a bass occasionally, generally a male in the kg range..big females I try release unharmed so they carry on spawning like I do with all the fish I catch..I'm sure a law enforcably cannot force you to cull a living animal, that would open up a whole constitutional can of worms and also interfere with animal cruelty laws. I would just have to claim that I have personal beliefs that prevent me from killing the animal, ie. leaving it to die a death full of suffering on the bank, and the bill of rights would protect my action and any law "forcing" me to not return a fish to the water would be effectively unenforceable and nullified. So in fact it is like there is no law regarding the return of these fish if I for what ever personal reason decide to that I must return them. I have had the same opinion about many laws in a similar fashion in the past, and my opinions have been tested by my legal friends in cases that have ended up in the constitutional and supreme courts..and I have been right everytime so I have no doubt my laymans understanding of the law here will be true. Law must follow the same logic everytime. So basically the laws you keep on shouting about here with a million smileys, "don't mean jack s#it in court"
I will cull a creature when I choose based on my own interpretation of karmic law, the lower tiers of laws can jump in a lake. haha.
@ malboer, nice kurper boet! ja funny that about the blue kurper, I hadn't considered that.. Wondering how long till we have flying carp in our rivers?
Bass fishing brings more cash into the economy in this country, in my estimate, that all other freshwater fishing combined and probably more than freshwater finfish aquaculture too I'd also guess..If I have some time I'll see if I can find some figures..
Where are the government hatcheries and management plans? It is easier to make laws than to really do something to solve a problem, this goes for many things. How about creating jobs? How about tourism? How about aquaculture and real goverment support? How about clearing illegal gillnetting and putting a stop to legal gillnetting..How about stopping pollution and tackle acid mine drainage..How about legalising zama zamas and rehabilitating old mines and letting people pay to mine there and teaching miners about borax and modern methods and stopping the tons of mercury that are getting poured into the rivers and groundwater every month...ja its a big mess, shouting at bass fishermen really won't help the local fish..
Here in thailand is the opposite side of the spectrum, monster local fish and they introduced everything from the rest of the world and made a big tourism industry out of it..bass would just be livebait here.
My mates dam by the way has kurper, bluegill, carp and one bass..The kurper do better with the bass there as he keeps the bluegills incheck which are more of an issue for them as they are nest raiders..The bass smashes bluegills and loves a plain white flour deegie My mate has caught him so many times when fishing for carp, and his name is Barry the bass and he will eat him one day..he is pushing 3.5-4 kg now and at least 4-5 years old..Barries best mate is a huge koi carp that he swims with all the time and picked up the habit of eating deegies on the bottom and now waits will after you are finished fishing and as you throw your dough policeman in the water he smashes it and was waiting for it the whole time..I couldn't make this stuff up haha..
Last edited on Fri Feb 2nd, 2018 02:55 pm by Dr halibut hoffman
Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2018 04:43 pm
Dr halibut hoffman wrote: Ja, Willem, my point, with a rod and line you will just favour large and smart fish if you cull what you catch..with a net you wipe stuff out quickly. I found only one instance of clearing bass out of a system in the world, when i looked it up, it was smallmouth in a system in the western cape somewhere..They had to use rotenone..Insects life is still affected by the treatment two years later but bass are gone.
Dit is duidelik dat jy die hele probleem van baars en sy gevare nie kan of wil insien nie, selfs in 'n stelsel waar besoedeling of ander kwessies dalk nie eers 'n probleem is nie so ek dink nie ek gaan hierdie argument verder voer nie maar ek gaan tog afsluit met so een of twee aspekte. Jy sê dit duidelik dat jy sleg sou voel as jy die baars sou moes uithaal net om dit vir die dood agter te laat (jy kan dit ook eet), ek sou net graag wou weet sou jy dieselfde simpatie toon teenoor ons inheemse visse as jy weet 'n baars het sopas 64 klein inheemse vissies in sy bek wat dit vernietig het, sekerlik nie. Weereens word daar genoem oor watse geld baarshengel vir die land en ekonomie inbring, lyk my dit is die enigste aspek wat in party mense in hulle koppe het, en dit is geld, ja geld...geld...geld... en daar word weereens net vasgekyk in geld maar dit wat werklik saak maak rakende bewaring van ons inheemse vis is totaal en al vergete, tipies as geld vir jou alles is en dit jou enigste geluk is in die lewe gelukkig was en sal geld nooit my eerste prioriteite wees as ons oor bewaring van ons inheemse vis praat nie. O ja jy noem hierbo dat baars en ek haal jou aan "a f*****g jol is to catch", het jy al 'n pragtige kurper gevang (pond vir pond baaaaaaie sterker as 'n baars) of dalk al 'n mooi klein of grootbekgeelvis of weet jy wat dalk 'n pragtige moddervis, hulle almal is sterk vegters en weet jy wat almal is inheems. Nee baars genereer baie geld vir die ekonomie, geld...geld...geld wat van ons inheemse vis, nee wat dit is nie belangrik nie. Ek sê vir die derde keer en ek stem saam met jou en dit is ook die enigste keer wat ek saam met jou stem, ons waterlewe staar baie ander kwessies in die gesig en besoedeling en onwettige nettery is ongelukkig deel daarvan en moet defintief ook hard aangespreek word maar ongelukkig lewe ons in Afrika. Maar daar waar baars is sal dit altyd 'n impak hê op ons plaaslike vis.
Ek stuur spesiaal vir jou nou twee rytjies gesiggies.
Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2018 09:18 am
It is true that bass and carp will never be eradicated as admitted by our friends with the big money. It is also true that our indigenous species are under under extreme threat not only from bass and carp but also pollution and netting to name a few.
The bass anglers admit to all of this so the question remains why release the invaders when it is known they will not be eradicated? Why release the invaders when it is known that they are a threat to our indigenous species? Why release the invaders and aggravate the situation?
Every effort should be made to protect- or as a minimum relieve the pressure on our indigenous species.
Last edited on Sun Feb 4th, 2018 09:19 am by CharlesF
Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2018 11:50 am
I like to release fish in general, and like to occasionally catch a bass. And I assure you me releasing or not, a bass I catch, will make absolutely no difference to local indigenous fish..and to the local bass population. And once again the bluegills affect the local indigenous fish far more and you could try to fish them out but you will never succeed. My mates pond, we have tried our hardest over the years, catching them by the hundreds and leaving them on the bank for the chickens to eat, day after day, we even moved a bass from one pond to that to eat them, we tried nets made of shadecloth..Made no difference. You can go anytime and dangle a bare hook near the side and still pull bluegill after bluegill out. To catch that one bass to move him a few meters from pond to pond, took us about a year. So since I have first hand experience in trying to remove a species in a little tiny dam/pond through culling, I realize how utterly impossible it will be to do on a huge scale in entire river systems.
Hence me saying "Bass have been here in SA since 1928 when 45 fish were brought here. All of our black bass in South Africa came from 45 fish, except for the later introduction of florida strain. All of our smallmouth came from 27 fish that arrived in 1937. If you or the lawmakers think that making the release of fish after catching to be illegal, is going to do anything to the stock of bass in this country, you (you and the lawmakers) are both dreaming.."
Carp and the way they feed and sedimentation of waters is a bigger threat to fish stocks as eggs suffocate and oxygen levels plummet with murky carp water..But to think you will eliminate them with out careful study of the waters involved and with using rotenone, is dreaming. And then again one must decide where the effort is worthwhile and where it would be wasted. Large river systems have these fish here to stay whether you like it or not, there is nothing on the ground that you can do to make a real difference with a rod and line. You will never ever remove these fish now, no matter how many you catch there will always be one male and female left somewhere, they will spawn and release more eggs in that one spawn than our countries' entire stock got started with, sorry to be the one to drop some reality on you. If one had culled out all the other bass, there would be so much "bait" with no one to eat it and the first generation of eggs will result in an explosion in the population again..we see the same in the sea reliably.
So I release my bass in the knowledge that I am making no difference whatsoever to the local indigenous fish in the bigger picture. I waste my time picking up rubbish rather and also lobbying those in power and positions of public influence to save stocks and protect waters. That said I have nothing against keeping a nice bass for the pan, but that said there is only one water in all the years that I keep bass from as our waters are so polluted, so ja that again..If I cull bass will it make any difference? In the water I fish most don't fish for bass but those that do catch mainly keep them for food, and that place has the best bass fishing I've ever had except for a little water in the cape where the bass have loads of mullet to eat, and are of florida strain and are huge and plentiful. Those bass in the cape brak water all came from 8 bass that mates introduced years back so once again I realize how just a few fish in a system can colonize the entire system in just a few short years, it takes about 3 generations and there is a bass hiding behind every stick.
So you guys can cull away but all you are doing is suiting the large breeding fish, removing competition from younger and stupider fish that get culled. Overseas, slot limits with people keeping a certain class of fish actually improved stock levels to better than unfished levels, think about that, in a closed system like a dam or freshwater system, the large fish have had lures thrown at them for years and are not stupid which is how they got large, and we have watched them turning up their nose at our offerings in clear water, lure after lure. The only way to lure those gals is to get them on the nest and to place a lure in the nest so she will remove it, and even then she knows the game and will pick that jig or whatever with the tips of her lips so carefully..the only way you will remove her from that system is old age, rotenone or electric shock. Shocks though will always miss a fish somewhere and the cycle will start over. Rotenone kills a lot of stuff and insect life will get knocked out. In the farm dams around me there are bass in all of them, but in the streams no fish at all, but insects that are found in them are found nowhere else on earth. Insects that have been around since almost the dinosaurs, so in those cases as with large impoundments and large rivers, rotenone is not an option. It can only be used in small systems that can be isolated and that is the ONLY way you can remove a fish species from a system.
If you believe otherwise goodluck. In the real world you will never remove bass and carp from the large systems no matter how many you cull. The more you cull the more you favour future population explosions. I accept the bass and sleep well at night, they are not going anywhere no matter how much you guys believe otherwise..Once you figure out how to remove the bass, haha get hold of authorities in the USA and tell them your secret so they can get rid of the chinese flying carp and you will retire a dollar millionaire!
Last edited on Sun Feb 4th, 2018 12:24 pm by Dr halibut hoffman
Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2018 12:06 pm
To really drive home the point...
I have a mate that had put a bunch of bass in a large fish tank, I think it took about 2 weeks and there was just one lunker left. The biggest bass had eaten everyone else who had eaten everyone else. He now has peaceful kurper in there haha but the point is that bass eat more bass that you will ever catch and cull, so your actions make no difference..If you want to reduce the population the easiest way would be targeted fishing in spring on the spawn beds and removing the large fertile females when they are sitting on nests and be prepared for local bass fishermen to give you serious uphill. But to think that that will remove them through even doing that is only BS'ing yourself. You will just knock the population which will explode once the pressure is removed. The bottom composition makes more difference to the population that you and all the other fishermen combined will, it is well documented that our sediment laden waters and muddy bottoms do not favour bass and the biggest improvement you can make to the bass stock is through sinking a few half drums with gravel inside so a few successful spawn beds can be had. That results in more bass than one can catch.. and will have more effect on the population in improving stocks than you could ever have on reducing stocks through culling. That is the reality. Some of our waters have gravel bottoms and in those waters you will not and cannot ever remove them as the conditions suit their spawn and they will spawn more every spring than you can count, nevermind catch and cull.
Good Luck. Bass are here to stay. They are far too successful a species for random efforts to remove them.
Last edited on Sun Feb 4th, 2018 12:13 pm by Dr halibut hoffman
Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2018 06:26 pm
our waters aint managed properly, by removing bass on a continual basis, it will only improve the bass fishing for the bassing community, thank you if guys embark in removing bass.
Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2018 10:50 am
Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2018 01:29 pm
hehehe, i kind of knew i would get some responce, sorry about that boet but reality is what it is. i feel your disgust and willing to meet up one day and help you remove the odd few fish.
Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2018 04:59 pm
Dit is tog so jammer dat baie van julle dink soos wat julle dink en nie 'n idee het van bewaring nie en ook nie omgee oor bewaring van ons inheemse vis nie. Julle argumente is onverdedigbaar. Tog so jammer dat geld eenvoudig net belangriker is vir party mense as dit wat werklik saak maak in ons waters. Tog so jammer dat ons in 'n wêreld lewe waar die mensdom net ingestel is op die "eie ek" en nie omgee vir enige iets anders behalwe homself nie.